Well behaved Karens seldom speak to the manager.

For readers who aren’t familiar with the Karen meme, check out this post (language warning) for a description and examples of the genre.  But in a nutshell there are two primary themes of the Karen meme:

  1. An entitled/pushy woman who demands to speak to the manager.
  2. A selfish mother who kicks her children’s father out of their lives.

Memes are intriguing in part because they allow the expression of thought-crime, very often through humor.   They are a natural reaction to political correctness, to vigorously enforced ideological conformity.  Before the SJWs can open their mouths to scold you, you’ve already laughed at the meme.  So when the scold appears they only make the meme funnier.

In the case of the Karen meme the thought-crime should be obvious.  Well behaved women seldom make history, dour faced women’s studies majors lecture us.  Sorry, not sorry.  But the Karen meme dodges this lecture (while mocking it) in part by seeming to be very specific.  The Karen meme is merely about one kind of misbehaving woman, the annoying kind, the kind named Karen, who has a Can I speak to the manager haircut.  Yet the kind of bad behavior “Karen” exemplifies is widespread thanks to the feminist/chivalrist revolution.

The Karen meme has been around for some time, yet so far feminists appear to have managed for the most part to avoid the temptation to scold it as sexist.  They appear to understand that lashing out at the meme and defending “Karens” as not evil, but the embodiment of feminist virtues would only make the meme more powerful.   This is impressive collective restraint in the face of widespread thought-crime, but I wonder how long such forbidden thoughts can be tolerated before feminists can’t contain themselves any longer.

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216 Responses to Well behaved Karens seldom speak to the manager.

  1. Minesweeper says:

    nice one !

  2. Rpro says:

    The reason sjw’s don’t get involved is because they refuse (or can’t find a willing sucker) to procreate. Not their farm, not their pig. Sjw’s are selfish.

  3. 7817 says:

    Better Becky than Karen.

  4. porticoforge says:

    Feminists will not attack the Karen meme because Karen is white and married.

  5. Scott says:

    Learn something new every day. Never heard of a Karen meme.

  6. Dry Holes says:

    I was married to Karen.

  7. Dalrock says:

    @Scott

    Learn something new every day. Never heard of a Karen meme.

    They are hilarious. Check out the link to 35 Karen memes in the beginning of the OP, and People Are Laughing At Tropical Storm Named ‘Karen,’.

  8. Lost Patrol says:

    Never heard of a Karen meme.

    Ditto. Of course now I will use it all the time.

  9. Bart says:

    True enough. As a kid, a friend’s mom was named Karen and ably fit the bill even pre-internet — yelling orders from the couch watching soaps in her housedress. Two kids, reasonable enough middle-class lifestyle. Never saw her happy. We played outside a lot.

  10. Anonymous Reader says:

    Perhaps knowledge of the Karen meme is not yet widespread among feministas?

    The Can I Speak To The Manager haircut is rather similar to the look of everyone’s favorite Toronto feminist, Chanty Binx.

    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/encyclopediaproblematica/images/2/21/Chanty_binx.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170714042218

  11. Chad Olson says:

    I sent my sister in law, who has SJW tendencies, one of these memes and advised her not to let the “let me speak to your manager” ‘do happen to any of her clients. Waiting for the results of this shiv…

    The haircut itself falls in the category of something women tell each other looks good, but no man thinks the same. The women complimenting their shorn sisters know the new ‘do destroys SMV, and celebrate it secretly while oooing and ahhhing over the streaks applied.

    Maybe it’s all the rage because it fits so well under a pussy hat…

  12. Damn Crackers says:

    Is this the origin of the meme?

    Goodfellas…in case you’re interested.

  13. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    I too have never heard of the Karen meme.

    But here’s something else that’s funny, which I just came across:

  14. Bart says:

    Semi-on topic, just spotted this news that one of Google’s co-founders married a 34 year old attorney who had difficulty conceiving and is now starting a center specifically to extend women’s fertile years (strip mining for more eggs?) She managed to marry a billionaire in her mid-30s but all is not well if she cant stick the landing with at least a couple kids. The money quote: “I find it crazy that my reproductive organs are considered geriatric long before any other organ even begins to show the slightest sign of decline.” Guess you can’t emotionally terrorize your womb or its Manager into doing your bidding.

    https://pagesix.com/2019/10/02/google-founder-sergey-brin-marries-nicole-shanahan/

  15. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    “I find it crazy that my reproductive organs are considered geriatric long before any other organ even begins to show the slightest sign of decline.”

    That’s not true. I’ve read that the human body begins to decline after around age 25. The brain stops developing and begins to shrink. All sorts of things begin their decline after age 25, or 27, or 30. Ovary production is not the only thing.

    After age 40, people shrink about a half an inch per decade. That’s on average, and assuming no other diseases or problems with bones. But everyone shrinks. Bones lose density, and gravity has its effect. There’s a reason for the “little old lady” stereotype.

    I used to be 5’10”. At age 51, I went in for a checkup, and my doctor measured me at 5′ 9 1/2″ By the time I’m 60, I’ll probably be 5’9″.

  16. Pingback: Well behaved Karens seldom speak to the manager. | Reaction Times

  17. Anonymous Reader says:

    Bart
    “I find it crazy that my reproductive organs are considered geriatric long before any other organ even begins to show the slightest sign of decline.”

    Is. Ought. Stamp foot!

  18. white says:

    feminists generally are quite slow to respond. It took them a whole decade to realize social media can be used to remove due process from men (#MeToo). It’ll probably take them another decade to realize #WivesToo is entirely possible now that Marital Rape is a thing, and due process for men is no longer a thing. When they do catch on however, retribution is relentless and they always achieve their goals. Always

  19. Frank K says:

    I used to be 5’10”. At age 51, I went in for a checkup, and my doctor measured me at 5′ 9 1/2″ By the time I’m 60, I’ll probably be 5’9″.

    I’m 59, and I haven’t shrunk, at leas not yet.

    But when I turned 40 I could definitely tell that that the good days were over. Not living past your 40’s wasn’t that unusual before modern medicine. I had my appendix removed in my 40’s. Before modern medicine it probably would have burst and I would have been a goner.

    I was fitted with artificial knees last year and while they have been a huge positive, I’m still recovering as I deal with muscular soreness and stiffness (but no more joint pain). I can’t begin to imagine how older people recover from this though, as it’s been hard as nails and I’m back in physical therapy to deal with the residual soreness and stiffness.

  20. Rex says:

    All those Tropical Storm Karen memes and not one of them said anything about stealing El Niño.

  21. Joe says:

    I’m 59 as well and still 6′ tall, same as I was in my 20’s.
    Thankfully, we still have all our original equipment, and it functions well and with no pain. This allows us to be very active and have the energy we did in our early 30’s. exercise of choice is weightlifting at least 3 times a week. Wife comes with me. We take no meds.

    We are 95% carnivorous. Works well for us.

  22. locustsplease says:

    29 is great 18 is why they will never make women responsible and end child support.

  23. Nick M says:

    If you like the Karen memes, you might like r/idontworkherelady on Reddit or YouTube, Dalrock. 😁

  24. Random Angeleno says:

    My ex was a pretty good Karen on occasion. At least we didn’t have kids for her to take. Some of those memes are bust a gut funny. Like the first one from Dalrock’s Tropical Storm Karen link.

  25. TheTraveler says:

    When did “Karen” become a thing?

    Such a pity about that name. I’ve alwsys associated the name Karen with a hottie little 50s housewife, who takes care of the fam by day…and the hubster by night.

    Maybe it’s from 1950s schoolbooks (my school still had ’em in the 70s) in which wholesome-hot girls were often named Karen. Hubba-hubba!

  26. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Maybe it’s from 1950s schoolbooks (my school still had ’em in the 70s) in which wholesome-hot girls were often named Karen. Hubba-hubba!

    Famous 1970s celebrities named Karen:

    * Karen Carpenter

    * Karen Black

    * Karen Valentine

  27. Opus says:

    Karen is indeed a fifties name but not necessarily spelt that way. One thinks of Leslie Caron. Karens then are short almost petite and fairly sensible. I once knew a woman called and spelt for her first name Caron. It is curious the way some first names acquire such characteristics that one knows exactly what the person will be like even before one meets them.The motto truly is: stupid name; stupid parents.

    I see that in addition to Karon Memes there are also J.K. Rowling memes. I have no idea whether her second name is or is not Karen but she is extremely annoying and one wonders whether she would have been less so had her tiresome novels about one H.Potter never have been written.

    There have always been ways to subvert official ideology. In Italy in the Nineteenth century which was then I think ruled by the Austrians Italian nationalism was forbidden. The way round the ban was to go around shouting Viva Verdi – the initials of Verdi’s name conveniently spelling out Victor Emmanuel Re D’Italia and one could always say one was merely showing support for the composer.

  28. thedeti says:

    The “CISTTM” ‘do link has a pic of Kate Gosselin, you know, the mom from Jon and Kate plus 8 and later reality shows. Kate Gosselin has a reputation as being an insufferable wench. On that show and later ones, she acted like a Karen.

    “Karen” is an overworked upper middle class soccer mom. She has a bachelor’s degree, is on the PTA, and joined the Junior League a few years ago but quit because her ex-friend Becky is such a bitch. She drives a Honda Odyssey or a Chrysler Pacifica minivan (always a late model car ya know.). She has a job working in advertising, or marketing, or some other cubicle/desk paper pusher job in lower/middle management. For the past 16 years she’s been married to a poindexter or a Beta Bob that that ex-friend Becky introduced her to. She’s like this close to divorcing Bob. Unbeknownst to pretty much everyone, especially Bob, she’s cheating on Bob with Jim, a kind of attractive guy who’s married to an acquaintance of hers from church.

    I’ve known lots of Karens.

  29. Abiding Dude says:

    Long time lurker. Didn’t think my first comment would be negative. I guess not everyone on this blog is 19 like myself. I think I can speak for all the fellow memers and those who stand in solidarity with meme culture that this post (along with just about all the comments on it) are real cringe. It’s like the most normie/least edgy meme that you won’t find on Buzzfeed. You’re a brilliant writer but stay in your lane. Don’t mean to offend you or any of your old-timer followers.

    Just playin with you guys. I seriously love your (Dal) articles and the discussion that your following brings is often enthralling. Seriously, thank you for all that you do. My girlfriend would thank you as well.

    [D: Welcome. Thanks.]

  30. 7817 says:

    This was the Becky I was talking about. Probably the same thing, but there’s been Karen’s from way back.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becky_(slang)

  31. Jacob says:

    Even if the feminists respond to the Karen meme, I don’t think it’ll trouble them too much. Karen is An Empowered Woman. Sure, all she really brings is sound and fury but she signifies something important for feminists. Their reason for their being is to sow iniquity for material gain and Karen’s rage is their front line weapon. She will spend herself if she meets an imovable object, so she has power only if it’s given to her. Problem is, it is given to her almost everywhere she goes, and the iniquity that results yields little more than grief and destruction. It almost never turns out for the best for women. But that was never the goal of feminism, as we all know.

    I was struck by the character of the female redditor comments. They were distancing themselves from Karen but only as one would with something that had an unpleasant odor. There was no recognition of the destruction she causes, or the grief, only the smell. It makes me wonder if Karen is a part of every woman’s being, the impotent rage within that knows it signifies nothing but can’t believe that’s possible. And so she must vent with sound and fury. I reckon most women are genuinely surprised when it actually has an effect. It’s never a constructive effect but boy, what a rush that must be for them. Feminists have pushed this drug for decades, it’s no surprise that women almost everywhere are loving it and becoming addicted to it. Karen is to women like Scarface is to the movie industry. Say hello to my little friend.

    I can’t see the beast going back in it’s cage without a fight. Or a complete change of political strategy. It must WANT to go back or be destroyed. Chivalrists will not let any feminist be harmed, so unless there’s a worldwide cure for chivalry the beast will have to go back by other means.

    I reckon the key is in the observation that most women are surprised that Karen’s sound and fury has the effect it has. Whatever works, eh sisters! So how to dissolve this effect? Since Karen is essentially Leftist in nature (if not of political bent) and feeds off attention and iniquity, she’s triggered like an autoimmune response to anything Leftish. Like is acutely cognisant of like. Why not treat the disease with a bit of social chemotherapy? Inoculate the T-cell receptors so they don’t respond to the aggravant. Don’t respond. Be immovable. Starve the storm of fuel. Storms spend themselves when they reach the immovable object of landfall. Karen’s reason for being is to spend itself against an immovable object. She aims ever higher up the management ladder looking for release against a sufficiently high mountain for all her pent up moisture, not necessarily for male compliance or action.

    Perhaps the solution to Karen is to hear her out, ask lots of questions, don’t promise anything, don’t react, don’t be afraid, and act only on your own recognisance of a solvable problem and only after careful reflection. Treat it as an intervention between her and male compliance, her drug of addiction.

  32. Spike says:

    The “Karen” meme is indicative of what Dalrock on this site years ago called “Something more ominous than a Strike”.
    Memes are a mechanism of ridicule. The more they proliferate, the more men – particularly young ones – get the message warning them of the post-feminist woman and the society mangina white knights built for her. It doesn’t spread linearly. It spreads exponentially.
    This means women in general can still “Karen” if they want, but men aren’t going to hang around, be patient and wait for her fury to subside. They aren’t going to care because, due to the sheer amount of information out there, meme – encoded or not – they know “the juice isn’t worth the squeeze”.

    In short, its’ indicative that the party-of-her-life is over, at least at men’s expense.

    PS: Readers in Australia may be heartened to find out that the abominable gendered violence narrative-fed institution “White Ribbon” – is shutting down. Reasons are basic corruption: failure to account for donor money, failure to translate said donor money into tangible services, failure to declare reasons management have given themselves pay rises….

  33. Jacob says:

    “White Ribbon” – is shutting down.

    This is good news indeed if true. I was one of the early campaigners that helped to get those disgraceful ‘real men don’t hit women’ rugby footballer ads taken off the TV. Dozens of letters followed to the White Ribbon organisers, pointing out the falsity of their claims. Some wrote back, but after a while they realised their BS rationalisations weren’t going to work. I kept it up for several years, along with several others. I was astounded when that self-serving PM Turbull gave them and their cronies another $75m of taxpayers money after all that. As much as I avoid Paul Elam’s 401k these days, AVFM was instrumental in bringing a lot of the rot to public attention. Hats off to them.

    It goes to show that justice is worth fighting for. It may not come on your watch but it will come eventually.

  34. Kaminsky says:

    I live in a somewhat affluent small town in the Northwest. Just far enough from Seattle for some UMC mothers to really get out of hand with how highly they regard themselves. Not that Seattle SAMs have an ounce of decent humility. But here it’s Karenville for sure. Either pudgy, or enervated by excess cardio/hot yoga, they just can’t get it right. There is a stunning lack of fertile sexuality, though not in the obese way of the lower class. UMC soccer moms are, by far, the most entitled breed of human this planet has ever seen. It’s hilarious watching them drive and how quickly they will rate themselves as the priority car in any situation, even breaking the law quite often due to his. Keegan and Tate and Kyler need to get to their activities after all. Barf.

  35. Vyasa says:

    Maybe I don’t visit the same corners of the internet, but at least in my social circle (25-35y old millennials), the Karen meme hasn’t taken hold.

    Perhaps it’s a older person thing? It seems most of the memes are about women divorcing their men and taking the kids

  36. Scott says:

    Spike-

    Organizations like “White Ribbon” feed on multiple presuppositions that are provably false, yet are perpetuated by the inertia of the narrative. If I am being really cynical, preying on naivete like that is a great way to bring in some cash and not have to show anything for it. It is the essence of an “awareness campaign.”

    First, you have to believe that there is an epidemic crisis of men beating the living daylights out of their wives every night, in every city across the land. It is unidirectional, unprovoked and uncomplicated. Men bad, women good.

    You also must believe that what causes those beatings is nothing other than socialized patriarchal gender roles where men are taught by movies, TV, watching their parents–the whole society! to treat women this way. You must believe that there is no other explanation for why relationships become violent–not personality psychology, not substances, not genetic predispositions to a certain type of conflict resolution, nothing. Definitely not the proliferation of “Karens” that have been inflicted on the whole society.

    Then, you have to be convinced that education or “awareness” is the answer. If only people knew about this! If only men knew that treating their wives like that is against the law! If only we could educate people about domestic violence! Because you see, no one has ever of these things.

    You also must conclude, that while training, education and awareness are the answer,there is no end insight to the herculean efforts that must be embarked on. That way, no matter how much “work” you do, there is always “so much more to be done.”

    As long as you can keep those paradigms inflated and the public focused on them, you can keep asking for more money.

    This formula works for every damn social justice cause on the map.

    White people reaching out and touching black peoples hair? Awareness campaign
    Gender pay gap? Awareness campaign
    Heteroexual AIDS explosion? Awareness campaign

    If you are the child on the sidelines at the parade who shouts “the emperor has no clothes” it just makes you look like a cooky conspiracy right wing nutjob.

  37. Scott says:

    Or even worse, you are probably hiding your own domestic violence in your home and maybe we need to take a look at YOU.

  38. Kaminsky says:

    The d.v. campaigns are always justified because you just never who is a perpetrator. You just never know. The nice middle school principal down the street with the well-kept lawn, two Labradors and three kids just might be regularly working his wife over with body shots every evening. You just never know! A lot men know how to beat the women so that there are no marks that will show in public, so you never know.

    That’s the mentality and it’s actually the feminists’ dream scenario; all men are bad. The only men who don’t regularly pummel their wives only restrain because they’ve been taught that by women.

    Amazing to think that in Karen Nation, so many women will just take their nightly beatings without so much as a peep. The same Karens who will bring down hell on a manager for cold fries. The same ones who nearly kill pedestrians for a parking spot that will save them 9 seconds of walking. The same kick ass, fight like a girl ™, grrrl power, future is female, roundhouse lionesses somehow go quiet when their beta soy decides to use them like a punching bag every night. The same beta who follows them around in the supermarket like a whipped mule, but look at his swollen knuckles though.

  39. Hazelshade says:

    @Abiding Dude

    Great post man. May Karen never take your kids as long as you abide on this Earth.

  40. Minesweeper says:

    The reason thy feministas havn’t complained about “Karen” and enacted legislation, brought it up at the UN, classified all men as anti-Karen etc.

    Is because 1 reason only, they utterly lack any understanding whatsoever of humor, so this meme is completely beyond them.

  41. Scott says:

    Kaminsky

    The “who knows what goes on behind white picket fences” (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) thing is definitely part of it.

    That life, that nuclear family, that set of values is so odious and putrid to them that it must be attacked and characterized as evil constantly

  42. Eindringling says:

    The Karen meme seems to be more anti-white than anti-feminist, and feminists aren’t complaining about it too much because it would be intersectionally problematic. The Great Awokening revoked the pass that middle class white women had of being honorary minorities or minority allies or advocates. Since 2014 or so, white women are getting used to being attributed with the same racial guilt and bad intention as their fathers and husbands and sons. Goodwhite schoolmarms with posters of MLK in their classrooms are now suspected of holding back their black students by implicit racism and white savior complex.

  43. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Remember the police woman who mistakenly went into the wrong apartment and killed a man?

    She was recently convicted of murder and gotten 10 years: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7537799/Jurors-Amber-Guygers-case-speak-10-year-sentence.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=1490

    I’m guessing she would have gotten much less, but the victim was black.

    I’m also guessing that had she been a man, it was have been more than 10 years.

    She was sexting her married boyfriend minutes before she entered the wrong apartment: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7497495/Amber-Guyger-SEXTING-partner-distracted-fatally-shooting-man-home.html

    Another woman playing at being a cop.

  44. Frank K says:

    She was recently convicted of murder and gotten 10 years

    She’ll be quietly paroled long before that, provided she isn’t killed in prison first.

  45. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Meet the woman leading the LGBT cartoon revolution: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/oct/01/move-over-disney-meet-rebecca-sugar-the-woman-leading-the-lgbt-cartoon-revolution-steven-universe-adventure-time

    As a child, Rebecca Sugar always loved those “animated movies that ended in a beautiful wedding between characters that only met a few days earlier”. Even if, as a queer, non-binary child, she didn’t always feel reflected by the strangling gender norms of Disney films.

    The 32-year-old animator is now enjoying – and adding to – a very different cartoon landscape. This year, viewers of the children’s show Arthur saw Mr Ratburn marry an aardvark (and chocolatier) named Patrick.

    In 2017, the Disney animation Doc McStuffins aired an episode featuring an interracial lesbian couple. And, last year, Sugar’s own series, Steven Universe, became the first kids’ show to feature a lesbian wedding.

    For self-professed geeks in the LGBT community, Sugar is something of a gay-eity. In 2011, she got her break as a writer and storyboard artist on the animated series Adventure Time. She earned six Emmy nominations and a slot on Forbes magazine’s “30 under 30 in entertainment” list for her contribution to many of the best episodes.

    There, she laid the groundwork for the cult character Marceline, a bisexual vampire queen and one half of the queer cartoon couple dubbed “Bubbline”. In the show’s finale, she and her girlfriend, Princess Bubblegum, sealed their largely offscreen romance with a long-awaited onscreen kiss. …

    I remember when cartoons were innocent. Now, it’s an LGBT recruiting tool

  46. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    From Rebecca Sugar’s Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Sugar

    Sugar has discussed the importance of creating LGBT representation and content, especially in children’s entertainment.

    On Cameron Esposito’s podcast QUEERY, Sugar stated “I want to champion LGBTQIA, all of it, content…in G-Rated, family entertainment. …

    She believes that early and positive exposure to the LGBT community can help queer identifying children avoid experiencing shame in their own identities.

  47. anonymous_ng says:

    Morning all.

    So, my kid was telling me the other day that he is shocked at how many young women on Tinder are looking for sugar daddies. I, ummmm, had to conduct some, errrr, research, yeah, that’s the word 😉

    Here are my observations of the 18-22 yo on Tinder.
    – what is up with the offers to sell pictures of their feet??
    – most of the looking for a sugar daddy girls are NOT hot enough to get a sugar daddy
    – the one that left me laughing for days was a 20yo of average attractiveness who is looking for a generous older man to pay her bills . . . Platonic Only
    – – HAHAHAHAHA, THAT’S NOT HOW THIS WORKS!!!! THAT’S NOT HOW ANY OF THIS WORKS.
    – Most are IG/SC attention whoors.

    So, my son is sitting here wondering why he’s supposed to spend his 20s working for financial success so he can put a ring on some clapped out whoor who spent her twenties getting pounded by an unending stream of dope smoking losers.

    The only answer I can give him is that while I can point him to a number of people I know from HS who married right after college, and are still married, and appear to the external world to be happy, they are at best 25% of the total, and that is probably the upper limit of women who won’t be Karens.

  48. Scott says:

    Goodwhite schoolmarms with posters of MLK in their classrooms are now suspected of holding back their black students by implicit racism and white savior complex.

    This is pretty much my favorite thing I read today.

  49. Novaseeker says:

    I remember when cartoons were innocent. Now, it’s an LGBT recruiting tool

    The visual presentation, still, is typically focused on lesbians and not gay men, however, because the sight of two women kissing isn’t nearly as disturbing to anyone in our culture as the sight of two men kissing, never mind the image conjured of the actual sex acts engaged in by gay men. We may eventually get there on mainstream screens — I would be surprised if we did not — but it will start with lesbians because people are less offput by it, even today with everyone being forced to shut up about gay issues.

  50. Novaseeker says:

    – the one that left me laughing for days was a 20yo of average attractiveness who is looking for a generous older man to pay her bills . . . Platonic Only
    – – HAHAHAHAHA, THAT’S NOT HOW THIS WORKS!!!! THAT’S NOT HOW ANY OF THIS WORKS.

    Eh, except that … it does for some of them. There are plenty of guys who pay to have dinner or go on a “date” with one of these girls without any sex or any other physical recompense. It makes no sense to me, for sure, but you can read reports everywhere on the internet about it from the girls themselves who say some guys it’s more involved (ie., sex) and there’s generally more money involved, often an “allowance” which is in the thousands per month, but for other guys it’s only a desire for some company over dinner or for an afternoon at the museum or what have you for a few hundred bucks. There are even actual hookers who are not SBs who offer “non sexual dates” as well. Makes no sense at all right? But if it weren’t a thing, it wouldn’t be a thing hookers are offering either …

    Never underestimate the staggering depths to which the parched thirsty men of our culture will stoop, and the willingness of the women of our culture to stoop right along with them if the price is right.

  51. anonymous_ng says:

    @Novaseeker, I know, but it just baffles me.

  52. Scott says:

    I knew a girl once who worked at a gentlemen’s club that was really weird. The girls just roamed around the bar area and would sit with the men having their drinks. They could proposition the girls for something more, but no sex. Just leaving the club to go be seen somewhere else with a pretty girl on your arm.

    Weird.

  53. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    If a woman is pleasant, friendly, and attractive, I’d pay for her ticket to an event, or for dinner, with no expectation of sex. I have done so. What’s wrong with that?

    We live in a couples culture. If you want to attend an event, or go to a play, or dine out, there’s a social taboo of doing it alone. It’s no fun.

    I was raised to believe that gentlemen always pay, with no expectation of sex, and I’m cool with that. The lady provides her company. The problem is that there are few ladies whose company is worth the price.

    To be good company, a lady must charming, attentive, polite, focused on the man who’s paying, and attractive on his arm. But modern women (not ladies) are loud, ungrateful, angry, entitled. focused on their cell phones and other men, and hideous to behold. One is ashamed to be seen with them in public.

  54. Novaseeker says:

    I knew a girl once who worked at a gentlemen’s club that was really weird. The girls just roamed around the bar area and would sit with the men having their drinks. They could proposition the girls for something more, but no sex. Just leaving the club to go be seen somewhere else with a pretty girl on your arm.

    Weird.

    Yeah when I was living in Europe there were establishments like that were basically places where young women in lingerie would come and sit with the guys and get them to buy them very expensive champagne (like way marked up) just to sit there next to them scantily-clad and make small talk. The girls got a cut of the markup, the house took most of it. No sex, no nudity, no strippers or anything like that, just talking for money.

    Men are strange honestly when they can’t get laid for free.

  55. Anonymous Reader says:

    anonymous_ng

    Here are my observations of the 18-22 yo on Tinder.
    – what is up with the offers to sell pictures of their feet??

    To make money. The overhead is nonexistent, so a few bucks in a PayPal account is essentially free. Do a search on “camgirl”.

    – most of the looking for a sugar daddy girls are NOT hot enough to get a sugar daddy

    That all depends on the market. The thirst among men for any kind of contact is real. Also see who their “in real life” competition is, some parts of the US have a real obesity problem; an ordinary girl who would get a second look 20 years ago now stands out.

    – the one that left me laughing for days was a 20yo of average attractiveness who is looking for a generous older man to pay her bills . . . Platonic Only
    – – HAHAHAHAHA, THAT’S NOT HOW THIS WORKS!!!! THAT’S NOT HOW ANY OF THIS WORKS.
    – Most are IG/SC attention whoors.

    But it does work, because “thirst” is real.

    So, my son is sitting here wondering why he’s supposed to spend his 20s working for financial success so he can put a ring on some clapped out whoor who spent her twenties getting pounded by an unending stream of dope smoking losers.

    Part of vetting includes a deep dive into social media, obviously. There’s a deeper issue at work, though. Sugar Babies are hungry for masculinity, the cash is an extra. When I’m around college aged people I see women who are hungry and men who are thirsty, yet often they look past each other.

    Your son should be pursuing excellence. If churchgoing, there are quotes from the Bible about that. If not churchgoing, it’s still valid for his own benefit. He will have more options in his life if he spends his 20’s developing skills, preferably non-perishable. That might be any of several things, but it’s better than playing Mariocart all the time.

    The only answer I can give him is that while I can point him to a number of people I know from HS who married right after college, and are still married, and appear to the external world to be happy, they are at best 25% of the total, and that is probably the upper limit of women who won’t be Karens.

    Dude, don’t. “It worked for them / me” is classic Dadtalk. The situation isn’t the same as when you were 18, but there are still options and paths for a young man to follow.

    The first step is: he must develop his own frame of reference. Either be his own mental point of origin (per Rational Male) or if churchgoing make God his mental point of origin.

    Never make a woman the center of your life. They are ornaments / helpers. Nothing more.

  56. Novaseeker says:

    If a woman is pleasant, friendly, and attractive, I’d pay for her ticket to an event, or for dinner, with no expectation of sex. I have done so. What’s wrong with that?

    That’s not what this is. This is where the girl gets paid a “fee” for her time, in addition to you picking up the price of dinner/tickets/etc. Do you normally pay women a fee for their time on dates?

  57. anonymous_ng says:

    @AR, my advice to him is not it worked for me/him especially since it didn’t work for me. He is very aware of your last point.

    @RPL, I have certainly paid for dinner, tickets to an event with no expectation of sex. Her quote was looking for a “Generous older man to pay my bills” and that is a completely different animal. Also, personally, I won’t be paying for dinner or tickets to an event etc, unless things are(or seem to be) progressing forward toward greater intimacy.

  58. Anonymous Reader says:


    I remember when cartoons were innocent. Now, it’s an LGBT recruiting tool

    Not new. An aging relative once bought a music disc for her grandkids; It was from Di$ney, with a picture of Mickey on the front, so all good, right? One of the tunes was “YMCA” by the Village People…. I know serious churchgoing people who used to let their kids watch “Hannah Montana”, but who couldn’t see the messages in the show. Some serious churchgoing people I know were glued to “Game of Thrones” but couldn’t explain why.

    If all the “conservatives” just stopped giving money to Di$ney and Netflix it might make a difference. Might. ‘Course it would mean that they couldn’t be one of the cool kidz talking about GoT at lunch, so…oh, well.

  59. Pingback: Friday hawt chicks & links – The pollution edition. – Adam Piggott

  60. thedeti says:

    The sugar daddy/sugar baby culture is essentially prostitution. Women, sometimes married women, sometimes older divorcees, but mostly young single college students and young single women, charge a fee for “spending time” with a man, and the fees go up as more activities occur. Most of the time, it’s women looking for help paying bills. Sometimes it’s women looking for mentoring, i.e. the sugar daddy is expected to help the SB network with other professionals, help her get jobs, serve as a professional reference, and provide professional and financial guidance. And these women know exactly what they’re doing – they use their youth and beauty to attract older thirsty men. He gets in her pants, she gets in his wallet.

  61. Anonymous Reader says:

    thedeti
    The sugar daddy/sugar baby culture is essentially prostitution.

    One could also describe it as a “reversion to the mean”. An older, financially established man keeping a mistress on the side is not exactly a new concept, is it? Consider SB’s merely as a data point in the ongoing cultural shift, or slide if you prefer.

    Looking forward, I wonder how the older preachers, especially the Boomers, will rationalize it?

  62. Opus says:

    Red Pill Latecomer opines that provided the woman is pleasant, friendly and attractive he is perfectly happy to shell out the cost of feeding or entertaining her. He asks what is wrong with that and says he has done it and with no expectation of sex. I call BS on this. Change the sex of the fortunate companion to male. Would RPL then really provided I was pleasant friendly and attractive (as I would be) be happy to pay for my dinner or entertainment – and indeed would I feel happy to accept and with no expectation of any quid pro quo from myself. As everyone hates being in receipt of charity the answer has to be no – so why RPL would you do this for a woman? – whilst pretending there is no sexual favour to be hoped for?

    I have of course done it many times myself and have told myself that there is no expectation of sexual favours. I nevertheless treat it much as i would a visit to the bookies – not every horse I back will romp home – at 100-1. but some will. Win some; lose some. That was how I proceeded – when I was younger. I laid out money in earnest – not too much of course. I now realise that it is what Vox Day would call horribly Beta.

    The woman who accepts your dinner engagement and then fails to provide extra services is in my view a scammer who probably gets off on the knowledge that she has pulled a fast one.A prostitute is the more honest.

  63. CSI says:

    “Remember the police woman who mistakenly went into the wrong apartment and killed a man?”

    That’s an interesting case, because it looks like an honest but still stupid mistake. Confusing layout of apartments. She’s tired, gets them mixed up. Her mind assumed his apartment was hers. Guy accidentally leaves his door ajar. So she’s assumes he’s an intruder who’s broken into her apartment. The racial element might come into play a bit, but she probably would have acted the same with a white guy.

    An all too human mistake but with a tragic outcome. Texas law is idiosyncratic here and allows mistakes like this to be prosecuted as murder rather than manslaughter, but 10 years is about what you’d get for a serious case of manslaughter in other jurisdications.

  64. feeriker says:

    Opus says:
    October 3, 2019 at 5:17 pm

    Karen is indeed a fifties name…

    It’s really fascinating how we can associate certain names with specific personality types. “Karen,” for me, has always been pretty neutral. I’ve known Karens who were at both extremes of the spectrum (i.e., pleasant, attractive, and feminine, and others who were raging feminist bitches).

    Some other female (European) names and my associations of them based on experience (apologies in advance to any of you guys with GFs, wives, mothers, or sisters with the same names who don’t exhibit the negative attributes I associate with them):

    – Jennifer, Jenn: arrogant, bitchy, selfish, and/or extremely promiscuous

    -Jenny: the polar opposite of “Jennifer” or “Jenn.” That is to say, demur pleasant, feminine, lovable. This is why I cringed when first hearing about “Jenny” Erickson. She should definitely be a “Jennifer” or “Jenn.”

    – Liz, or Lizzy (as distinct from “Elizabeth,” “Beth,” or “Betty”): arrogant and generally unpleasant, often very combative.

    – Carol, Eleanor, Gretchen, Hillary (not just the most notorious one, either), Pamela, Sally, Susan: miserably angry harpies, perpetually belligerent, and militantly feminist. Fill the atmosphere around them with darkness, unpleasantness, and venom for a radius of 100 miles.

    -Lisa, Luanne, Tina: Names tailor-made for girls whose mothers know at the time of their birth that they’re going to grow up to be turbo-slores.

    Any “popular” name for girls in the 21st century (e.g., Brittany/Britney, Courtney, Katrina, Nicole, Sabrina, etc.): promiscuous, spoiled airheads

    “Biblical” or “old-fashioned” names for 21st century females (e.g., Emily, Emma, Hannah): see preceding list, but add mental illness as another attribute

  65. Random Angeleno says:

    Regarding Rebecca Sugar and her ilk: it’s all about access to the children. That’s how gay culture perpetuates itself.

    I read Cernovich back when he was just another manosphere blogger; he predicted at that time that normalizing pedophilia would be the next frontier. Now we’re seeing the push in our faces all around us. Drag queens reading to kids in a public library? Check. Preteen boy dressed in drag with makeup dancing for the titillation of the adults? Check. And so on.

  66. Scott says:

    Going back to an older topic

    Today we went to the gym and stopped at the grocery store before having to go get the kids

    This is what’s thats like for us

  67. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Opus: Red Pill Latecomer opines that provided the woman is pleasant, friendly and attractive he is perfectly happy to shell out the cost of feeding or entertaining her. He asks what is wrong with that and says he has done it and with no expectation of sex. I call BS on this. Change the sex of the fortunate companion to male. Would RPL then really provided I was pleasant friendly and attractive (as I would be) be happy to pay for my dinner or entertainment – and indeed would I feel happy to accept and with no expectation of any quid pro quo from myself. As everyone hates being in receipt of charity the answer has to be no – so why RPL would you do this for a woman? – whilst pretending there is no sexual favour to be hoped for?

    Of course I wouldn’t do it for a man. But there’s more to sexuality than physical sex.

    It feels good, emotionally and psychologically, to socialize with an attractive, pleasant, friendly woman, even if I know there will be no physical sex. There’s also an ego boast being with a beautiful woman. Everyone, including other pretty woman, looks at you differently. They’re more polite and respectful, thinking that you must have … something.

    Both men and women understand this. Yes, it’s unfair, that a woman’s mere presence can be appealing. And women often take advantage of it. But it’s true nonetheless.

    When I was younger, in the 1980s and 1990s, I occasionally dated young, attractive, aspiring actresses. Los Angeles is full of them. I would sometimes get passes to film screenings on studio lots, and I could often find some aspiring actress who wanted to enter the Paramount or Fox lot for a screening, regardless of the film. Even if I knew nothing would happen afterwards, it felt better attending with a beautiful woman on one’s arm than attending alone.

  68. locustsplease says:

    Karen just understands clearly “the problem with no name” haha. You animals just dont grasp female emotional supremacy! Shes unhappy shes perfect who around here is to blame? Before karen meme we just called it bitchy hair cut. Everyone with it was and is a bitch.

  69. RichardP says:

    @RPL said: … there’s more to sexuality than physical sex.

    Flirting would be a good example of that.

    There are benefits to be had from fornicating like alligators. But there is nothing feminine about that situation.

    There are different benefits to be had from interacting with a feminine (and hopefully classy) woman – particularly one with a southern accent, and who is a “touching” person. The “touching” being part of their normal course of talking with someone, so you know it is not personal. I worked with a gal like that. Even took her to lunch from time to time. To see the twinkle in her eyes, to hear her talk and laugh, to watch her body mannerisms as she interacted with me or with others, were all quite delightful. Both of us were married to other people (we socialized as couples a bit), and sexual activity between us might have been imagined on dark and storm nights, but it was never a topic that came up between us. And I did tell her when I got to know her well that I was glad that I would never have to trust her. An understanding I came to on my own, well before Red Pill literature became a thing.

    If what you want is to get drunk, there are plenty of cheap options for that.

    One doesn’t drink Cognac to get drunk. One drinks it for other reasons.

    I understand exactly what RPL is saying. And I understand that there are others who don’t understand it at all. They probably don’t drink Cognac either, because what’s the point.

  70. Anonymous Reader says:

    I wonder how the Karens relate to the tranny crowd? Here’s a link about rugby. I’m sure Opus has an opinion or two about women’s rugby.

    https://amp.dailycaller.com/2019/09/29/transgender-women-rugby/

  71. Frank K says:

    I can’t wait to see the circus next year’s Olympics is going to be with men competing as women, with TV sportscasters calling men “she” with a straight face. Actually, I probably won’t watch it at all.

    I imagine it’s only a matter of time before a team of men wins the Women’s World Cup/

  72. Oscar says:

    @ Frank K

    I skipped the last Olympics, and I’ll probably skip the next one. Every time I hear someone say that a sport that I enjoy (jiu-jitsu, MMA, power lifting, strongman, etc.) should be in the Olympics, I say “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! The International Olympic Committee could ruin a wet dream!”

  73. Scott says:

    Alright, so I spent most of the day yesterday out and about running errands, etc. I could not believe how many Karens I saw! I thought about snapping a few photos incognito-like, but it was just too overwhelming.

    Its like there must a hairstyle called “can I speak to the manager?”

    Jeans with leather boots to just above the knee. Poofy North Face jacket. Constant scowl. SUV. And the aformentioned hairstyle, which looks good on precisely zero women,

    I was with my wife all day, so the contrast was striking. Maybe her presence of sweet deference and the fact that we are basically zoned in on each other like high schoolers all the time helps create an invisible force field for me to not see it. I have to snap out of that state to deliberately engage with clown world and all the negativity around me.

  74. Oscar says:

    The Allman Brothers knew Karen.

    I been run down, I been lied to
    And I don’t know why I let that mean woman make me a fool
    She took all my money, wrecked my new car
    Now she’s with one of my good time buddies, they’re drinkin’ in some crosstown bar

    Sometimes I feel, sometimes I feel
    Like I been tied to the whippin’ post
    Tied to the whippin’ post
    Tied to the whippin’ post
    Good Lord, I feel like I’m dyin’

    My friends tell me that I’ve been such a fool
    And I have to stand by and take it, baby, all for lovin’ you
    Drown myself in sorrow as I look at what you’ve done
    But nothin’ seems to change, the bad times stay the same and I can’t run

    Sometimes I feel, sometimes I feel
    Like I been tied to the whippin’ post
    Tied to the whippin’ post
    Tied to the whippin’ post
    Good Lord, I feel like I’m dyin’

    Sometimes I feel, sometimes I feel
    Like I been tied to the whippin’ post
    Tied to the whippin’ post
    Tied to the whippin’ post
    Good Lord, I feel like I’m dyin’

    Makes for great blues, but a pretty miserable life.

  75. Mychael says:

    German-Hispanic US army officer links obscure Allman brothers video to perfectly encapsulate the topic from deployment 10,000 miles away.

    Strange days indeed.

  76. Scott says:

    And if that’s not strange enough, I just realized I grabbed the wrong lap top when I made the above comment!

  77. info says:

    I discovered certain passages in scripture that also command manliness:

    2 Peter 1:5
    For this very reason add to your faith
    aretēn: Manliness in character, Uprightness

    and to
    aretē: Manliness in character, Excellence

    knowledge:
    https://www.biblehub.com/2_peter/1-5.htm

    We are not to be malakos(soft, effeminate) like those who do not inherit the Kingdom of God.

  78. Oscar says:

    @ Scott

    I was wondering why Mychael would say that! Ha!

  79. Lost Patrol says:

    Scott – “Everything is stupid now”.

    The evidence never stops accumulating.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7517183/Military-brass-consider-ending-ban-male-soldiers-wearing-make-duty.html

  80. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Barbie joins the Marine Corps: https://barbie.mattel.com/shop/en-us/ba/stars-stripes-barbie-series/marine-corps-barbie-doll-7549

    I should have known this was a thing. Indeed, Barbie has joined all the services.

    See her sporting sexy Army desert camies: https://barbie.mattel.com/shop/en-us/ba/army-barbie-doll-ken-doll-deluxe-set-5626

    But no matter the combat arena, her hair is always perfect!

  81. Reblogged this on Free Matt Podcasts and commented:
    ***I don’t make my own material on the weekend. Please read and discuss Dalrock’s piece. I laugh about the cultural abundances of “Karens” in our mists, I secretly think she is a offshoot of the soccer mom.***

  82. Oscar says:

    Alright; I hadn’t listened to the Allman Brothers in a long time, and after listening to “Whipping Post” a few times, I just had to write a short post.

    https://snowgoosechronicles.blogspot.com/2019/10/tied-to-whipping-post.html

    As King Solomon makes clear, being bound to an uncaring woman is a uniquely painful misery, and Gregg Allman’s raspy voice perfectly conveys the agony. The driving bass and rhythm guitar feel like the panicked heartbeat of a cornered animal, and the whining guitar solo sounds like an utterly defeated man weeping alone.

    I’ve heard it said that the best art emanates from pain, and – damn! – does this song feel like a man’s actual, lived experience, or what?

    Fathers, share it with your boys, and teach them how to avoid this fate.

  83. Anonymous Reader says:

    “Whipping post” no longer sounds quite the same since I got a pair of The Glasses.

    Scott’s observation about boots reminds me, everywhere in North America there is a season for girls to wear their boots. A few years back in Phoenix during the first week of January almost every one of them over the age of 15 was wearing something; Uggs, for example, or those not-quite-knee-high pseudo riding boots, etc. There was a spattering of rain and the temp was probably 55 degrees F…close enough!

    All y’all look around this fall, see when “boot season” shows up in your locale. Because they are all girls.

  84. Oscar says:

    @ Anonymous Reader

  85. Anonymous Reader says:

    Lol!

  86. Scott says:

    Every single time some wife friend on FB chops off her hair, she then posts a pic of herself to which every woman on there lavishes praise for how much more convenient it is and also “cute.”

    And, every single time, Mychael is the only one who asks “what does your husband think?”

    The comments after that always get really interesting.

  87. Scott says:

    Continuing…

    Generally, the responses indicate that it never occurred to them to even wonder what their husbands might think, which is why Mychael asks the question

  88. Anonymous Reader says:

    Scott
    Every single time some wife friend on FB chops off her hair, she then posts a pic of herself to which every woman on there lavishes praise for how much more convenient it is and also “cute.”

    Sure, because the woman who chopped off her hair has made herself less attractive (ok, maybe not in France, but in North American terms), reducing the competition within the herd of mares. This is not a conscious response, either, it’s the girl hindbrain speaking up.

    Long hair is a marker of fertility. There’s a sound reason men like it.

    “what does your husband think?”

    Countercultural question causes a form of cognitive dissonance in the female brain. “Husband” is that mall Sherpa, not a figure of any significant authority — ‘The answer is NO!” from the vid in the OP. Yet residual social approval causes some discomfort at just ignoring his opinion…Therefore no surprise the comments get more interesting.

  89. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    34 Flattering Short Haircuts for Older Women: https://www.latest-hairstyles.com/short/older-women.html

    Yes, it’s a thing.

  90. Scott says:

    RPL– I looked at all 34 and meh. I guess maybe “flattering” doesn’t mean the same thing to me. Mines going to be 47 in March. I snapped this pic yesterday.

    To quote AR

    Long hair is a marker of fertility. There’s a sound reason men like it.

    Just this morning I unintentionally overheard a conversation between my wife and daughter. They were in the next room.

    Daughter: Is that a new outfit? Why are you taking so much time to get ready if we are just going to town to run errands?

    Wife: I always get a little nervous when I buy new stuff. I want your daddy to think I look pretty in it. Its really important to me.

    It was a very sweet conversation to hear. And I get the feeling most daughters do not get this message from their moms.

  91. Anonymous Reader says:

    RPL
    Short Haircuts for Older Women

    I.E. postmenopausal women. Not fertile anymore. Heh. Either have a man locked down or have almost zero chance at a new one [1]. But still might be some sort of possible competition so “short is so cute.

    Here’s the male version of “that is so cute.

    [1] Hi there, Nova. 1 out of 10,000 is not “typical”. Just saying.

  92. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Rodney Dangerfield is wearing a rainbow jacket.

    So innocent in the 1980s. Has taken on an entirely new meaning since then.

  93. Anonymous Reader says:

    The past is a different country.

  94. Minesweeper says:

    Hmmm, superlative hamsters spinning.

    https://www.kmov.com/news/women-are-stressed-burning-out-at-an-alarming-rate-new/article_6af2dc2d-fdb3-56ae-9c7f-5c40b965a7fb.html?fbclid=IwAR2L8aPcP37yW8jhe1LgOtun0qmBFpWVtdHBUhkVdqELfe8K0BKHsPFn1og

    “The study found that if women could get just one extra hour of free time each week:
    35 percent said they would give up all social media for a month”

    How about giving up your 90hrs of social media per month, that will give you, errrrrr….90 hrs ?

    But then how would they then get paid for their “social media emotional labour” ?

  95. anonymous_ng says:

    @Minesweeper, I was standing in line at the cafeteria at work, and overheard a fairly attractive woman in her late-30s or early-40s commenting that she was thinking about telling her family that she had a business trip, and instead renting a hotel room a couple of miles from her house, and just sleeping.

    My ex used to accuse me of wanting shared custody of the kids just because I would pay less in child support. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    I love my kids and would have gladly taken them every day. SHE is the one who was so worn out after having them for a week that she nearly begged me to take them back.

    ==========================================================================

    Regarding short hair and convenience. I can’t speak for all women, but my ex did it once, and said it was not convenient at all. With her long hair, she could dry her bangs, throw the rest into a pony tail, and head out the door. With short hair, it had to be dried and styled every single day.

    Young women can be attractive in spite of their short hair because everything else is overcoming the androgyny of the short hair.

  96. locustsplease says:

    @ scott most women get the short haircut to directly spite their husbands. Its really sexual retirement. Any woman who has ever had this hair cut has to b on the banned list of potential partners. What i am seeing now is a lot of actually physically attractive women straight cutting it off like 1″. They are all on the list.

  97. Scott says:

    Locustsplease-

    A few years back, this issue was a hot topic for Mychael and I, and she wrote a blog post about it.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20150224062709/http://courtshippledge.com/2014/06/which-is-more-important/

  98. feeriker says:

    What i am seeing now is a lot of actually physically attractive women straight cutting it off like 1″. They are all on the list.

    It’s another manifestation of laziness and apathy. They have ZE-RO interest in or motivation for making themselves attractive, or even maintaining what few attractive attributes they already have. It’s too much effort, especially for the boring beta chump they’ve been stuck with for years and have no interest in (because they don’t think he has any other options but to stick with her, an attitude that they not infrequently find is very mistaken).

    As for “Karen,” I wonder how these harpies would react if you addressed them by that name?

  99. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    locustsplease: What i am seeing now is a lot of actually physically attractive women straight cutting it off like 1″.

    Better than those women who shave half their heads.

  100. Oscar says:

    @ Anonymous Reader

    Countercultural question causes a form of cognitive dissonance in the female brain. “Husband” is that mall Sherpa, not a figure of any significant authority

    “Husband” is the ox that is either tied to the whipping post, or yoked to the mill, grinding the wheat. Nobody gives a damn what the ox thinks, or feels. It’s an ox.

  101. Lost Patrol says:

    “Husband” is that mall Sherpa, not a figure of any significant authority —

    “Husband” is the ox that is either tied to the whipping post, or yoked to the mill, grinding the wheat.

    Mostly just her husband though. Many of the other husbands are worthy of respect and admiration because she has never lived with them.

  102. Scott says:

    The “mall sherpa” and ox comments reminds me that every once in a while I see a social media meme that describes this phenomenon. There are like 2 or three of them. Of course, I can’t find any right now.

    Basically, you see a mom and children inside a house complaining about how they wish dad was around more. But dad is holding up the weight of the entire house on his shoulders, just about to buckle under, sweat dripping down his forehead.

    It’s rare–like I said, I can’t even find one–but they pop up every so often.

    Just like the question Mychael asks “what does your husband think,” these memes make most everyone uncomfortable.

    Usually they get a tiny number of “likes.” The “likes” tend to come from divorced dads we know who are struggling in the aftermath to make sense of their lives.

    I think it really is true that we have demoted the rank of “father” to below that of a private in the army. Or a pack mule on the trail. We have made “father” into a bit player in the shadows of family life. Constantly telling him his needs don’t matter, and that he is “deadbeat” or whatever. And the genius of it is that its been done while maintaining the lie that men are privileged club members of a secret order of cigar smoking back room dealing aristocrats. This way, any father we see dragging ass behind his family at the mall carrying everything probably deserves it.

  103. Scott says:

    It’s very similar to the relationship between the Eloi and the Morlocks

  104. Oscar says:

    @ Scott

    The “mall sherpa” and ox comments reminds me that every once in a while I see a social media meme that describes this phenomenon. There are like 2 or three of them. Of course, I can’t find any right now.

    Basically, you see a mom and children inside a house complaining about how they wish dad was around more. But dad is holding up the weight of the entire house on his shoulders, just about to buckle under, sweat dripping down his forehead.

    That reminds me of my conversation with “Sergeant Jesse”. Even after having experienced it himself, he still didn’t recognize the lack of gratitude inherent in his mom’s, and his first wife’s, attitudes.

  105. Oscar says:

    @ Scott

    It’s very similar to the relationship between the Eloi and the Morlocks

    Well, except for that insignificant detail about the Morlocks eating the Eloi.

  106. Scott says:

    Well sure, but there’s no perfect analogy

    🙂

  107. Scott says:

    Even Jesus parables break down at some point, and he was pretty good.

  108. Scott says:

    “Verily I saw unto you. The husband is not unlike the Morlock, toiling away under the house, straightening that which is crooked, keeping the Eloi in the house accustomed to their lifestyle, until the day arrives when he emerges from the dirty machinations to capture an eloi so that he may eat them in his ungodly sacrifice.

  109. Minesweeper says:

    “We have made “father” into a bit player in the shadows of family life. Constantly telling him his needs don’t matter, and that he is “deadbeat” or whatever. And the genius of it is that its been done while maintaining the lie that men are privileged club members of a secret order of cigar smoking back room dealing aristocrats.”

    Brilliantly defined.

  110. Opus says:

    Anonymous Reader assumes that I will have a view about Rugby, and I do: I attended a Rugby playing School (League not Union) and I hated and continue to hate it and spent most of my schooling (that is to say Wednesday and Saturday afternoons) avoiding playing the game. Rugger types are instantly recognisable in that they tend to be big ungainly and ugly and cloth-eared.

    I used to room with a chap (my flat-mate) who was sacked (because he could not play his instrument) as the first bass player of an infamous Punk Rock band (banned by the BBC of course – too many F bombs). Years later I bumped into him one day and he told me he was now married to a Hooker – that is to say his wife played Rugby. and that was her position.

    I have been wondering the difference between the Dyke-cut referred to above and the Bob-cut, which I much like.

  111. Minesweeper says:

    @Opus, you hated it ? I love playing rugby, it was a blast. Were you quite small at secondary ?

  112. K-Dog-One says:

    “To be good company, a lady must charming, attentive, polite, focused on the man who’s paying, and attractive on his arm. But modern women (not ladies) are loud, ungrateful, angry, entitled. focused on their cell phones and other men, and hideous to behold. One is ashamed to be seen with them in public.”

    This issue is one of the main reasons that I do not understand the value of online dating.

    Why would I take the risk of being seen in public with a woman (e.g. on a first ‘date’ met via online profile) who I don’t know, never seen in-person, never talked with face-to-face, etc.?

    Maybe my risk management tolerance is too high, but I don’t think so.

  113. Liz says:

    I have been wondering the difference between the Dyke-cut referred to above and the Bob-cut, which I much like.

    One looks like a man’s haircut, the other a woman’s. My spouse likes edgy bob cuts, and detests very long hair. He also doesn’t like it when hair is worn up in a pony tail or bun or braid or something (PTSD from his former college girlfriend). Since I’m active, and he doesn’t like it up, it’s much more convenient for wear the bob (with the other advantage that hair doesn’t get everywhere…like into the food, again, sets him off from the PTSD).

  114. Liz says:

    Some women do look better with shorter hair (not the pixie…everyone looks terrible in that) if it’s a good cut. Jaimie Alexander looked far better with her edgy ‘do in Blindspot, IMO. Kate Beckinsale never looked better than when she was sporting a bob (Underworld).

  115. K-Dog-One says:

    “Maybe my risk management tolerance is too high, but I don’t think so.”

    Edit: Of course, I meant “Maybe my risk management tolerance is too low.”

  116. Minesweeper says:

    Liz, Its a rare woman who looks better with shorter hair!

  117. Oscar says:

    @ Minesweeper

    Its a rare woman who looks better with shorter hair!

    Even Audrey Hepburn.

  118. locustsplease says:

    Liz no women look better with short hair. I looked at pictures of both of those women with both styles. However both of those women are attractive either way. Never heard a man say finally women started cutting off their hair. Some women are attractive enough to pull off short hair. Most women tank their smv. Hair is like a picture frame around a pretty face looks better than a picture on the wall.

  119. Minesweeper says:

    @Oscar, I have a quantifiable different reaction to both pictures. Men have been hard coded with this it 😀 !

  120. Minesweeper says:

    1st photo – thats nice but mmmmm. 2nd – waow !

    Thats the difference long hair length makes 😀 !

  121. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Entitled girl barred from homecoming dance because she refuses to follow the dress code. Entitled mother runs to social media, claiming oppression: https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/teen-barred-from-senior-homecoming-dance-for-wearing-a-jumpsuit-instead-of-a-dress-222216568.html

    On Friday, Darcy Krueger, 17, showed up at the Tampa Bay Homeschool Homecoming Dance wearing a black jumpsuit, but was turned away because of a dress code. According to her mother, Melissa Krueger, her daughter was “denied entrance because her dress attire has a crotch in it.” …

    “I was very surprised,” Darcy told ABC Action News. “I called my mom and I was telling my friends about it because I couldn’t really believe it.” …

    “As a mom, I was shocked. I thought there had to be a misunderstanding,” Melissa said. “What century are we in!? I was very upset… there was no one else to talk to.”

    So, she turned to social media to air her grievances, posting about the incident on Facebook and garnering more than 200 comments, supporting the teen with statements such as, “insane and cold-hearted” and “completely ridiculous.”

  122. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Oh yes, one more thing. The article makes no mention of a father.

    Instead, the mother says: I was very upset… there was no one else to talk to.”

    No husband to talk to?

    “Thankfully, my daughter has good self-worth and she saw this clearly for what it was,” Melissa says. “A very bad judgment call by a woman who showed almost no empathy, and a dress code that needs to be updated into the 21st century.”

    No empathy for her special snowflake? What about empathy for all the other students who followed the rules? Why must everyone change to accommodate Ms. Snowflake?

  123. Minesweeper says:

    @RPL, surprised state troupers weren’t called really, to “enforce” female entitlement.

    No doubt over the next 6 months, all involved will lose their jobs and be pilloried on social media.

  124. Minesweeper says:

    “Why must everyone change to accommodate Ms. Snowflake?”

    Because – rules …..

    Then again they are just training her to get every single thing she wants in life after this so …….

    Why mess with the program ???

  125. Minesweeper says:

    Have to say, love wordpress right now, sometimes it takes a good 20 mins+ for your comments to appear, sometimes its instant 😀

    makes for interesting reading…..

  126. Liz says:

    Liz no women look better with short hair.
    That’s not what my husband thinks. My dad liked shorter hair too.
    Per “frame”….long hair doesn’t necessarily frame a face, a good cut does (my Italian aunt is my doppelgänger…or I suppose I am hers…anyway, she always kept her hair no longer than shoulder length, with a cut to surround her face. I keep it pretty much the same. To each their own)

  127. Opus says:

    @minesweeper

    No I am not small (the same height as Tyrone Power – but not quite so good looking) – in my prime five feet eleven and a half inches. I hate Rugger but I love Soccer which I had played before I was sent to Secondary School (High School) and played again as soon as I released from the misery of my Rugby-obsessed boarding-school. The school I might explain played Rugby and caned anyone who so much as kicked a tennis-ball because playing Rugby (League) is an indication that one is middle-class unlike the Soccer playing working-class and the school i attended aping its betters was fearful of being mistaken for a poor (in both senses of the word) school (which it was).. I was always placed in the second row of the scrum not because I have that sort of build – I don’t – but because that is where no one wants to be placed and I drew the short straw. From the age of about fourteen however I found another way of occupying my Wednesday and Saturday afternoons – I expect they were only too pleased to see the back of me.

  128. Oscar says:

    @ Minesweeper

    1st photo – thats nice but mmmmm. 2nd – waow !

    And that’s despite Audrey Hepburn’s extraordinary beauty, and the fact that she’s dressed far more elegantly in the first photo.

  129. anonymous_ng says:

    Looking around at church today, I noticed three older women(60+) with long hair, and they still look relatively attractive. In contrast, the rest all look like androgynous trolls.

  130. Liz says:

    And that’s despite Audrey Hepburn’s extraordinary beauty, and the fact that she’s dressed far more elegantly in the first photo.

    No one looks better with butch hair (that’s the pixie style).
    Funny scene from 1961 Parent Trap. Father talks the daughter into cutting her hair (not butch):

  131. Anonymous Reader says:

    There is an entire Francophone look called gamine. As Liz pointed out, it’s not a man’s haircut on a woman’s head. It can also be called “pixie”. Leslie Caron was an obvious example.

    Chacon a son gout, as the French say.

  132. Minesweeper says:

    @Oscar says:”And that’s despite Audrey Hepburn’s extraordinary beauty, and the fact that she’s dressed far more elegantly in the first photo.”

    Yeah, if she had her hair in the 1st like she had in the 2nd, double waow.

    I don’t intellectually understand the difference it makes, but I feel it in my head.

    Its like that old test.

    3 rooms, you can chose 1 per hour and the door closes when you enter :

    1) best food you’ll ever taste, 2) best sex you’ll ever have. 3) best alcohol you’ll ever drink.

    Men 2,3,1
    Women 1,3,2

  133. Minesweeper says:

    @Liz says:”Funny scene from 1961 Parent Trap. Father talks the daughter into cutting her hair (not butch)”

    Is that actually what you understood from that scene ?

  134. Minesweeper says:

    Actually it works better to say :

    3 rooms, you can chose 1 per hour and the door closes when you enter :

    1) best sex you’ll ever have, 2) best alcohol you’ll ever drink, 3) best food you’ll ever taste,

    Men : 1,2,3
    Women : 3,2,1

  135. Minesweeper says:

    I guess a woman cutting her hair is like a man losing his job.

  136. Liz says:

    Is that actually what you understood from that scene ?
    In the context of what we’re talking about, it fits. I watched the movie…so perhaps it isn’t clear. After this talk, she went out and obtained a more attractive wardrobe, and a (more attractive) haircut that framed her face.

  137. Novaseeker says:

    Short hair on a woman looks fine if the woman has a strikingly beautiful face. It works in that specific instance because it pulls away distractions from the face and pushes the face into solely prominent position — it places the emphasis of the overall look almost solely on the face. That works if, again, the face is strikingly beautiful. Anything *below* that, and it detracts from the overall beauty of the appearance — which means that in almost all women it does so, because almost all women do not have strikingly beautiful faces. And, even in women who *do* have strikingly beautiful faces, and therefore for whom short hair looks fine, longer hair often looks nicer anyway, although the difference is much closer, as (to my eyes) in the case of Hepburn.

  138. Minesweeper says:

    Liz, ok, so pop quiz – I asked you this before.

    Does a marriage(LTR relationships with males) to you feel more like 1) work or 2) a hobbie.

  139. Liz says:

    Liz, ok, so pop quiz – I asked you this before.
    Does a marriage(LTR relationships with males) to you feel more like 1) work or 2) a hobbie.

    Sorry I didn’t answer before. I don’t even remember this…I must’ve missed it.
    I don’t think of marriage as either. I couldn’t even answer this, work/hobbies are so trivial by comparison…we’re family.
    I do think in marriage each person has an obligation to the other. And I do try to keep myself attractive for my spouse and wear what he likes/cut my hair how he likes and so forth.
    That’s just a courtesy. It’s not work.

  140. Minesweeper says:

    @Liz, Thanks for getting back to me.

    I’m genuinely interested.

    So you view a LTR(marriage) as a series of obligations to each other.

    What are you obligated to provide ?

    What is he obligated to provide ?

    I’m just trying to nail down the brass tacks of what a woman thinks about things atm.

    Cheers !

  141. Scott says:

    And that’s despite Audrey Hepburn’s extraordinary beauty, and the fact that she’s dressed far more elegantly in the first photo.

    I’ll take jeans, sweater, cowgirl boots, hair in a pony tail coming out the back of a baseball cap any day. I think I’m weird that way.

    It is not quantifiable on the 1-10 scale. Its the difference between “cute” and “gorgeous/sexy/hot” and I have been like that since I was like 12.

  142. Oscar says:

    We now know where Scott falls in the Ginger vs Maryann debate that’s raged for decades.

  143. Opus says:

    That Irish singer – the mad one – the one who shaved her head and has now embraced Islam. I always thought that what she was doing was saying to the girls: “see bitches, even with no hair at all I am better looking than all of you” which at the time and accompanied by one of Prince’s excellent songs, she surely was.

    If I had five Pounds (£) for ever time I have heard a woman who had just had her long hair shawn saying that she had done it because it so much easier to wash and manage I would be quite well off. I always notice that the hair only comes off when ensconsed in their present relationship they have no longer any desire (or need) to make themselves attractive. My flat mate – the bass player – used to be an item with a girl who wore short hair. Entirely by chance I came across her Facebook page – now married to a man of substance (photo of a detached house) and with a teenage daughter – bass player a matter of forgotten history, her hair is now grown out. In her case I think short hair was a signal that she was looking for a better man.

    Long hair is not always desirable. I am thinking of female classical musicians who teach. There seems to be uniform for them of long and graying hair. Female hair deteriorates with age and frankly what those teachers need is a visit to the barber – off with their locks, dyed, would be more appealing.

  144. Spike says:

    Oscar says:
    October 5, 2019 at 6:26 am
    @ Frank K

    I skipped the last Olympics, and I’ll probably skip the next one. Every time I hear someone say that a sport that I enjoy (jiu-jitsu, MMA, power lifting, strongman, etc.) should be in the Olympics, I say “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! The International Olympic Committee could ruin a wet dream!”

    I teach Jujitsu, and the LAST thing I want is for it to become an Olympic sport. Tae Kwon Do and Judo have been ruined by the Olympics and no one who seriously love their martial art wants it to go down that path.

    The martial arts get stripped out of their culture and custom and turned into for-TV entertainment. This ruins them. Judo has turned into a bunch of throws, and TKD has turned into a wait and see point scoring competition rather than an awesome art, only seen when its is done at the amateur level.

    MMA already has its’ format and competition. Strongman is doing well by itself. I don’t watch powerlifting but to participants and fans of the sport, power to them.

    The Olympics has gotten too big, too complex, too expensive, too farcical (“Swim suits allowed. Swim suits not allowed…”; Transgender athletes not allowed. Transgenders allowed as long as testosterone is lowered…”) to be enjoyed any more.

  145. Spike says:

    Scott says:
    October 4, 2019 at 6:48 am
    Spike-

    Organizations like “White Ribbon” feed on multiple presuppositions that are provably false, yet are perpetuated by the inertia of the narrative. If I am being really cynical, preying on naivete like that is a great way to bring in some cash and not have to show anything for it. It is the essence of an “awareness campaign.”

    Scott –

    I’m from Australia and we have a literal epidemic of “Awareness Campaigns”. “Domestic Violence Awareness” ; “Breast Cancer Awareness” come to mind immediately.
    White Ribbon was a massive machine that would constantly churn out the gendered violence narrative, right up until it was audited. After that, failing the objective measure of No Services Provided, it lost sponsors and collapsed. Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say.

    But the gendered violence meme still circulates. Our media, political class, education system will still feed the public those same presuppositions you mention. That means White Ribbon will simply be replaced by some other organisation. This will only stop until those presuppositions are challenged and exposed.

    If there is any good to come out of the abominable NSW State Abortion Reform Bill 2019 – a Bill passed before our State Parliament which liberalises abortion to the point of infanticide on demand – is that it has exposed women’s nature as absolutely monstrous to the point it trumps anything they might assert about men.

    Women: “Men are violent! You beat us up!”
    Men: “You kill babies.”

  146. Minesweeper says:

    @Spike, Its worse, they kill their own. their own flesh and blood.

    Imagine the black heart behind that decision.

  147. Liz says:

    Minesweeper: So you view a LTR(marriage) as a series of obligations to each other.
    What are you obligated to provide ?
    What is he obligated to provide ?
    I’m just trying to nail down the brass tacks of what a woman thinks about things atm.

    I can’t speak for anyone else, but if I were to write a paper on how to have a successful marriage, I’d probably sum it up with (essentially), “whatever you did that made him want to sign the papers, keep doing it”. Life throws a lot in one’s way and circumstances change (we are not the same people we were when we married), but remember to value him. That’s pretty much it. Specifics will depend on the person.

  148. elspeth says:

    …remember to value him. That’s pretty much it. Specifics will depend on the person.

    This is good advice, especially the reminder that specifics depend on the particular man.

  149. RichardP says:

    In view of Minesweeper’s statistics, and in the spirit of eating babies to save the climate – men should just have sex with other men, and feed women. Outcome = no babies to abort. Both sexes get what they want. Perhaps Mayor Pete could add that to his platform. I’m sure it would get him the vote of lots of folks who oppose abortion.

  150. Frank K says:

    “whatever you did that made him want to sign the papers, keep doing it”

    Why? You can nuke the marriage, get to keep the house and half the other assets, and get checks for child support and alimony (unless you out earn him). The only downsides are that you might have to get a real job to keep yourself in the lifestyle to which you have become accustomed and it could impact your old social life, though that could be offset by bringing a boyfriend into your home who is much hotter than your old chubby hubby/”starter husband”. And if you really score you could stick the landing and marry a richer and better looking guy than your ex, though you will need to be a looker to pull that off.

  151. Liz says:

    What you’ve described doesn’t sound like a recipe for a fulfilling life to me or my family or anyone I care about, Frank. Actually sounds like the recipe of just about every train wreck and life failure I’ve seen.

  152. Anonymous Reader says:

    Frank to elspeth
    Why? You can nuke the marriage, get to keep the house and half the other assets, and get checks for child support and alimony (unless you out earn him).

    Elspeth takes her religion seriously. So does her husband.
    Bonus: they really like each other a lot.
    That’s why.

    @Liz
    Frank’s being just a tiny, eeensy weensy bit sarcastic.

    @RichardP
    Pete Bootygig should wear an “Eat The Babies” tshirt to the next debate. He’d be the center of attention the whole time, guaranteed.

  153. Frank K says:

    Frank’s being just a tiny, eeensy weensy bit sarcastic.

    Just a teensy bit.

    But all kidding aside, this has become the “narrative”, the “playbook”. And maybe I’m becoming a bit cynical in my old age, but I’m seeing this played out a little too often in my my social circles, especially outside of my church bubble.

  154. Anonymous Reader says:

    I’m seeing this played out a little too often in my my social circles, especially outside of my church bubble.

    Women in the Boomer age group and younger have an overinflated view of their SMP / MMP value. Combine that with essentially zero understanding of cause and effect, stuff happens. Back when only 60% of frivorces were filed by women, there was a known blip in the 35 to 45 year age group of 65%. That’s the sweet spot for ca$h & prizes, because child support will pay for some years and there’s still a fair chance she can land another man. Over 50 the odds drop very hard, Novaseeker’s unicorns notwithstanding.

    Some more patient people wait until the youngest child is out of the house to eject. Perhaps that is the age group that you are in? Of course we all know that firvorce spreads among social networks, because we’ve read the essays where Dalrock linked to such research, right?

    Anyway.
    Every girl should have this graph laminated to her bathroom mirror. Because reality is what it is, not what we wish it to be.

  155. thedeti says:

    Another example of a short haired, strikingly beautiful woman is Marion Cotillard:

    https://time.com/4143638/marion-cotillard-macbeth/

    Physiognomy is real. Like the soyboy face:

    is universally seen as feminine, or at least, unmasculine.

  156. Oscar says:

    @ Spike

    I teach Jujitsu…

    Just to be clear, I said I enjoy Jiu-jitsu. I never said I was any good at it!

    … and the LAST thing I want is for it to become an Olympic sport. Tae Kwon Do and Judo have been ruined by the Olympics and no one who seriously love their martial art wants it to go down that path.

    The martial arts get stripped out of their culture and custom and turned into for-TV entertainment. This ruins them. Judo has turned into a bunch of throws, and TKD has turned into a wait and see point scoring competition rather than an awesome art, only seen when its is done at the amateur level.

    Agreed. I used to think Judo was kind of lame, until I watched old black-and-white videos from Japan. Holy crap! I think the Sambo guys have really kept the original spirit of Judo alive. Sambo is about the best thing to come out of the Soviet Union.

    As for Tae Kwon Do, I’ve never seen it, but fellow Soldiers who’ve been stationed in Korea tell me the ROK Soldiers train with it, and it’s legit.

    MMA already has its’ format and competition.

    Yeah, but there’s precedence. Pankration is basically MMA, and was contested in the ancient Olympic games. They even contested it in the revived, modern Olympic games, but dropped it pretty quickly. Now that MMA is so popular, it could make another comeback.

    Strongman is doing well by itself. I don’t watch powerlifting but to participants and fans of the sport, power to them.

    Yeah, I don’t see either of those ever being included in the Olympics, thank goodness.

    The Olympics has gotten too big, too complex, too expensive, too farcical (“Swim suits allowed. Swim suits not allowed…”; Transgender athletes not allowed. Transgenders allowed as long as testosterone is lowered…”) to be enjoyed any more.

    Agreed. Some of the sports are enjoyable, but you have to wade through too much fluff to make it worth your time.

  157. Liz says:

    But all kidding aside, this has become the “narrative”, the “playbook”. And maybe I’m becoming a bit cynical in my old age, but I’m seeing this played out a little too often in my my social circles, especially outside of my church bubble.

    We’ve lived in all sorts of communities, and I’ve seen it a lot too (in some of them).
    But one thing I’ve never seen…a woman who practiced that narrative and didn’t live to regret it.

  158. Anonymous Reader says:

    Liz
    But one thing I’ve never seen…a woman who practiced that narrative and didn’t live to regret it

    Different people see different things. Women are actresses by nature. I’ve seen some women stick the second landing and they sure did act happy about it.

    @Frank K and others:
    Contagious nature of divorce. Note date. “Search” is a great tool.

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/06/05/the-contagious-nature-of-divorce/

  159. Frank K says:

    I’ve seen some women stick the second landing and they sure did act happy about it.

    Moving into a McMansion and getting a new Lexus SUV might have something to do with that.

  160. Jacob says:

    But one thing I’ve never seen…a woman who practiced that narrative and didn’t live to regret it.

    A washed-up lived-out middle-aged wastrel with regrets is of zero value to the good men she left behind in her twenties. She might have been a young man’s fantasy while her looks could cover for her corroding soul, but she’s the middle-aged man’s reality, as attractive and welcome as heart disease. And just about as common. There’s probably a link there somewhere.

  161. Spike says:

    Oscar says:
    October 7, 2019 at 2:03 pm
    @ Spike

    I teach Jujitsu…

    Just to be clear, I said I enjoy Jiu-jitsu. I never said I was any good at it!

    Oscar:
    I teach Jujitsu…and I’m by no means a master of it, either.
    Masters of Jujitsu are perfect in technique and timing. It requires a lifetime of rigorous training.
    I’m good with fundamentals and concepts – things that my students can take away easily and work on, things that they can use to adequately defend themselves if needed. the high-level stuff though, is what I work on, and it will continue until I can’t train in it anymore.

  162. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    84% of Women Fail the Army’s Basic Fitness Test: https://news.clearancejobs.com/2019/10/05/army-combat-fitness-test-fiasco-slides-reveal-84-of-women-failing-acft/

    And this article blames … the test.

    According to the numbers, a jaw-dropping 36% of soldiers overall failed the test, with 64% passing. When you break it down by gender, 70% of men passed. But here is a number should kill and bury the ACFT evermore: 84% of women failed the test.

    Those numbers are so absurdly biased against women that I was afraid this was some sort of elaborate joke by Duffelblog. …

    Why is this a problem? Lack of military readiness. No, the problem is …

    Here is why those fail numbers are so bad, male or female: you fail your physical training test, you get flagged. You aren’t going to military schools like Basic Leader Course or Airborne School. And if somehow you get there anyway, when you’re tested again you’ll be turned around and sent home. You cannot be promoted. You cannot be reclassified into another MOS. In the Guard and reserve, you cannot be transferred. You lose your tuition assistance. You can’t even reenlist!

    Oh no! How can we fight a war if the female fatties can’t reenlist?

    Here is where it gets really ugly. If 84% of women are failing this test — keep in mind, 84% of women who are in battalions specifically preparing for the ACFT — you have essentially eliminated women from the United States Army.

    It gets uglier yet. When a woman gives birth, she gets a six-month profile excusing her from the ACFT. The thing is: the real killer for women is the “leg tuck” portion of the ACFT, in which you assume a pull-up position and bring your hips and knees up to your elbows and back down as many times as possible in two minutes.

    That’s asking an awful lot for a woman who has given birth in the last few months; and allows, basically, for no time to actually train up for the event once her profile expires. Already, women are failing the leg tuck test by 72%.

    It is no secret that sexism is a problem in the military. What this test makes clear is that said sexism knows no bounds, and with the capricious stroke of a pen, those men have found a way to wash an entire gender from the ranks.

    Capricious? You mean this test has nothing to do with military readiness?

    If 84% of women are failing the test, the problem is not with women soldiers; it’s the test.

  163. kaminsky says:

    “But one thing I’ve never seen…a woman who practiced that narrative and didn’t live to regret it.”

    Whatever. I’ve never seen a woman express regret…EVER. That’s way too close to personal accountability and you know they’re not going anywhere near that. I’ve seen them miserable, wine-centric, and happy-pill ruined but it’s never regret. They’ll blame the man, or society, or men in general, but regret is a personal acknowledgement of a mistake and I’ve never seen a woman do it.

  164. Liz says:

    From the above article:
    But you know who it will help? The U.S. Air Force. I have been told that Air Force recruiters were warned by higher ups not to poach soldiers as this Army fiasco rolls out. But, hey, recruitment is an ugly business and recruiters have quotas. All they have to do is state the facts: Hello prospective female recruit: 84% of women are failing the Army’s so-called fitness standards. The problem is the test—not the woman. So do you want to enlist and be a private forever, or do you want to join the Air Force and reach your potential?
    Yippee!
    And now they’re going to let women fly all aircraft during their pregnancies.
    No one has any idea the effects of 10G forces on a fetal skeleton.

  165. Spike says:

    Minesweeper says:
    October 7, 2019 at 5:22 am
    @Spike, Its worse, they kill their own. their own flesh and blood.

    Imagine the black heart behind that decision.

    Worse than you can possibly imagine, Minesweeper.
    According to Planned Parenthood, Marie Stopes Foundation and repeated by progressive politicians, 1 in 5 women will need an abortion in their lifetime.

    1 in 5 women have a black heart

  166. Anonymous Reader says:

    And this article blames … the test.

    Well, sure, because women are just men with boobs who can do anything a man can do and do it backwards wearing high heels while flying across the Atlantic!.

    Because “equality of opportunity” demands “equality of result”, even more so in the Current Year. Anything less is Oppression by Teh Patriarchy!

  167. Anon says:

    And this article blames … the test.

    Not just that. If actual combat deaths were even 10% women (let alone 50%) the same mangina author would screech about how cowardly men are for avoiding their duty and forcing women to do their work for them, and how women should not be in the army at all.

    Fortunately, every single comment under the article slaughters the mangina who wrote it.

  168. Jacob says:

    Chacon a son gout, as the French say.

    To each his own indeed. Leslie Caron in that photo looks like a teenage metrosexual boy. She was cute as a button though and had a dancers body. She didn’t age well.

    Audrey Hepburn on the other hand is the epitome of lifelong feminine beauty, I would say to the universal eye. She looked good even in jeans, in overalls, in a wet canvas sack and without make-up. Interestingly, however, looking at the first photo of Audrey above, my strongest desire is not to marry her but to look at her, to hold her image in my mind for as long as I can. I remember thinking whenever I saw her in movies “gosh I hope she married a decent man in real life”, but I never once longed to be that man. I would certainly have enjoyed her on my arm and in my bed, but as an artist would a muse. She stimulates the imagination to great manly heights. Her beauty is an object of great price, a modern Helen of Troy, an objet d’art, not something to marry or merely lie with.

    The second photo of Audrey evinces an entirely different feeling. I want to scoop up her wholesome winsomeness in my arms and marry her, cherish her, and look after her. And most importantly to give her a family of her own. I want to do the very best I can for her and present her shining happy face and joyous heart holy and blameless to the Lord. This feeling persists even when I now look at photos of her as an old woman. She was beautiful almost to the end in a classical sense, but I see the wholesome, winsome, jeans-clad faux-wife of youth that’s in the second photo. These are just photos and not the person of course, but the difference is immense.

  169. Lost Patrol says:

    84% of Women Fail the Army’s Basic Fitness Test:

    Basic fitness test is different than combat fitness test, which is what the article is about just to clarify. Regardless, any physical fitness test that ‘everyone’ must take is absolutely a lowest common denominator challenge, just like SOF physical tryouts are at the other end of that spectrum. If you cannot be brought to the level of passing this simple test you definitely should be sent packing. But we will probably change the test…

    https://www.army.mil/acft/

  170. Kaminsky says:

    Jacob,

    Brilliant parody of the blue pill, tradcon pedestalization of women. That’s what that was, right?

  171. Oscar says:

    @ Spike

    I’m good with fundamentals and concepts – things that my students can take away easily and work on, things that they can use to adequately defend themselves if needed.

    That’s pretty much what I’m working on, and I’m doing it more for my boys’ sake than mine. I’m in my 40s, an engineer, middle class, etc. Eve in the Army Reserves, my job now – due to my rank, training, and accumulated injuries – is to manage construction and maintenance projects on base. The odds of me getting in a physical confrontation are pretty low.

    My boys, on the other hand…. I’m trying to pass on to them knowledge I wish I’d had when I was their age, and that includes – among many other things – self defense.

  172. Oscar says:

    @ Red Pill Latecomer

    Here is where it gets really ugly. If 84% of women are failing this test — keep in mind, 84% of women who are in battalions specifically preparing for the ACFT — you have essentially eliminated women from the United States Army.

    It gets uglier yet. When a woman gives birth, she gets a six-month profile excusing her from the ACFT. The thing is: the real killer for women is the “leg tuck” portion of the ACFT, in which you assume a pull-up position and bring your hips and knees up to your elbows and back down as many times as possible in two minutes.

    I’ve been saying this for years. Add pull-ups to the Army Physical Fitness Test, and you’ll eliminate the vast majority of women from the Army. Easy, peasy, lemon squeazy. And, yes, that was my goal.

    Not because women can’t do pull-ups. Clearly, they can.

    I’ve trained women to do pull-ups. But, the vast majority of women won’t do the work they require to do even one pull-up.

    The leg-tuck was even a compromise to allow more women to pass the test. If they’d made the standard, say, 8 strict chin-ups, or pull-ups, 95% of women in the Army would’ve failed. A lot of men would fail, too, but you get the drift.

    If a woman says she wants “equality”, I say give it to her. Good and hard.

    @ Lost Patrol

    Basic fitness test is different than combat fitness test, which is what the article is about just to clarify.

    That’s not accurate. The plan is to make the ACFT the Army’s physical fitness test of record no later than October 2020. That means it’ll replace the APFT (Army Physical Fitness Test), which is the current test (push-ups, sit-ups, 2-mile-run). I’m deployed right now, and I see Soldiers training the new events every morning.

    That plan may get derailed with all the whining about women failing. We’ll see.

    By the way, I haven’t taken the ACFT yet, but it’s obviously a much tougher, much more complete test of overall fitness than the APFT.

  173. Anonymous Reader says:

    Oscar
    If a woman says she wants “equality”, I say give it to her. Good and hard.

  174. Oscar says:

    @ Anonymous Reader

    That’s one technique.

  175. Opus says:

    There are good actors and actresses and then there are Movie Stars.

    I caught, it may have been on YouTube, Laughter in Paradise (1951) where Miss Hepburn even though she has only two lines as a cigarette girl shines such that the remainder of the picture is made forgettable. It was hardly any wonder that within a couple of years she achieved fame. Before that she played the part of a ballerina in Secret People (1952) but I understand from Balletomanes that although she has clearly had some training in dance she is no ballet dancer. Perfectly cast as Natasha in War and Peace and probably no worse than Julie Andrews would have been in My Fair Lady my favourite Hepburn scene is when she gamely allows her face to be shot with a water-pistol in Charade (1964).

    …and talking of actors who completely unbalance a movie the moment they appear however briefly on screen the same can be said of Sean Connery and his few minutes of screen time as a welder in Time Lock (1957).

    Movie Stars are a different breed from good actors. Hitchcock (Universal not providing the money he really needed for the picture) cast Barry Foster and Jon Finch in Frenzy (1972) but good actors though they were what the movie so obviously needed to bring it into focus were Michael Caine and Oliver Reed. They should also have used the old (if they survived) sets from My Fair Lady rather than the on location grime of the old Covent Garden market. Likewise Hitchcock’s final movie Family Plot has Bruce Dern when it needed Jack Nicholson – a man who could recite the telephone directory and make it sound riveting.

  176. Oscar says:

    So, I made a “Ginger vs. Mary Ann” comment to one of my Captains, and he had no idea what I meant. That made me realize that it’s likely that not everyone here understood the “Ginger vs. Mary Ann” comment I made earlier.

    So, this was Ginger.

    And this was Mary Ann.

    I always preferred Mary Ann.

  177. Scott says:

    Oscar-

    I tend to be very much a nature over nurture guy when it comes to all things behavioral. However the Gnger vs Mary Ann preference thing may have a nurture component to it.

    My very first serious girlfriend in high school (*I define “serious” as 1. Regular sexual access, 2. monogamous 3. duration of over three months and 4. I had my own transportation and income source) was “hot” as a nebulous distinction from “cute.” Everyone in the school wanted to go out with her and she was mine. What I remember about those days was a lot of unnecessary stress, drama, $hit testing, etc.

    After that, it was Mary Ann for me all the way. The difference to me is not necessarily a lower 1-10 number overall, but a regular, girl who is doesn’t make you feel crazy all the time. And the “hot” ones tend to do exactly that. The cute ones are the ones you actually might run into in every day places. The “girl next door.”

    Mychael fits this bill perfectly for me. She dresses up some times in evening wear, hair done, make up, etc. But she doesn’t need any of that stuff. I don’t mean she ever goes out frumpy either. Just sweet, normal, endearing in a pair of shorts and Converse Chuck Taylors and I’m a happy dude.

  178. Minesweeper says:

    @Spike says:”According to Planned Parenthood, Marie Stopes Foundation and repeated by progressive politicians, 1 in 5 women will need an abortion in their lifetime.

    1 in 5 women have a black heart”

    Actually its 1 in 3. They even have websites celebrating this fact. Its disgusting.

    I dont even want to google it, search for “1 in 3”.

  179. Quiet Desperation says:

    Nearly twenty years ago when I was in college, three loud and proud feminist “Karens” joined the congregation I attended. During a Bible study discussion group, I mentioned to these women that feminism is incompatible with Christianity and that they would find valuable insights into authentic womanhood in the Bible. After the meeting they complained to the “manager” (pastor) who shortly thereafter took me aside and asked me not to come to Bible study in the future, as I was making it difficult for those who were new in the faith. I spent about a decade bouncing between different congregations, only to find that the pastor’s attitude is nearly universal. If I had known then that “Karens” would rule the world today, I would have become a hermit or joined a monastery. Being married to a “Karen” entails all the misery described in Proverbs 21:19 and 25:24, especially since the modern church encourages rather than curtails “Karen” tendencies.

  180. Lost Patrol says:

    Oscar,

    LP – “Basic fitness test is different than combat fitness test, which is what the article is about just to clarify.”

    That’s not accurate. The plan is to make the ACFT the Army’s physical fitness test of record no later than October 2020.

    Ha! Caught you at your own game!

    It is accurate because they simultaneously exist right now, they are different, and one will replace the other a year from now. The article is about the combat test.

    Now you say something like “there is no basic fitness test, it is called the APFT”. Then I say “right, but to RPL and other readers basic fitness test makes sense in context”. Then you say “are APFT and ACFT the same letters? Yes or No”. Then I say anything other than yes or no. Then you say I’m dodging the question.

    Then pedantry wins again. I love you man (no homo), but doesn’t this kind of exchange seem weird to you?

  181. Oscar says:

    @ Lost Patrol

    I love you man (no homo)…

    No homo perceived, man. Right back athca.

    …. but doesn’t this kind of exchange seem weird to you?

    Well, it didn’t happen, so….

    I may have misunderstood you. I thought you meant that the two tests would continue to exist together, just as the Marine Corps has a PFT (Physical Fitness Test) and a CFT (Combat Fitness Test).

    https://www.marines.com/being-a-marine/life-in-the-corps/physical-fitness.html

    If I did misunderstand, then it’s obviously only because you suck at communicating. Obviously.

    In case it didn’t come through in writing, that was a joke.

  182. Oscar says:

    @ Scott

    I never had the status to date a Ginger, but I always preferred Mary Ann, even when I was too young to date, so maybe I just never tried. I don’t know.

    Either way, Gingers seem like way too much trouble.

  183. Lost Patrol says:

    Oscar,

    If I did misunderstand, then it’s obviously only because you suck at communicating. Obviously.

    In my defense, everyone here would understand my stuff better in person where you could see me waving my arms and acting out the parts.

  184. Liz says:

    Actually its 1 in 3. They even have websites celebrating this fact. Its disgusting.

    The fact “celebrations” tout such statistics make me think it might be agenda driven, not data driven. Rape statistics are supposedly the same.
    1 in 3 just seems a nice round number to the SJW crowd.

  185. Oscar says:

    @ Lost Patrol

    In my defense, everyone here would understand my stuff better in person where you could see me waving my arms and acting out the parts.

    So, you’re Italian?

  186. Novaseeker says:

    Ginger is a lot of work and much harder to keep — lots of competition looking to swipe her from you, and she is also more prone to attention whoring. But … if you can keep her for a while it’s just outstanding, because she is objectively more hot, more desirable, more demure and so on.

    MaryAnn is more the cute tomboy — not “easy to get” per se but much easier than Ginger, and less work to keep, with less competition and less entitlement. But, she isn’t as hot or glam or demure as Ginger.

    I dated both growing up. Prefer Ginger, but in practice MaryAnn is more practical.

    The story of the last 25 years isn’t that Ginger has gotten more intolerable, it’s rather that MaryAnn has become more like Ginger in terms of entitlement and attention whoring, while not having the glam and hotness that Ginger does. In that context, where there is less of a trade off, I don’t blame younger men opting for Ginger.

  187. Lost Patrol says:

    Oscar

    So, you’re Italian?

    Cultural appropriator.

  188. Minesweeper says:

    @Liz says:”The fact “celebrations” tout such statistics make me think it might be agenda driven, not data driven.”

    Well celebrate is too strong a word I used, they want acceptance for it, and not be something to be shamed, as usual as passing the salt.

    In europe, the stats are 1 in 4 pregnancies, 1 in 3 overall, same as the uk 😦

    Would surprise me if Gods reward for this isnt a 100ft tidal wave 100 miles long. We deserve it.

    After all we are forced to pay for it. Anyone who has paid taxes.

  189. Minesweeper says:

    * “1 in 3 women overall in their lifetime”

  190. Anonymous Reader says:

    Reference experiences matter. Our pattern-recognizers use those reference experiences to make sense of parts of the world. Men who had positive reference experiences with girls growing up find it easier to interact with older girls as time goes on. Men who had negative reference experiences with girls find it more difficult to interact with them later on. None of this is cast in concrete, but it is wired in neuroplasticity to some degree, and we carry pre-programmed responses around with us all the time. It’s a matter of survival, really.

    When I work with and around college students I try to bear in mind that 30% to 40% of them come from broken homes, and of those the majority saw their mother frivorce their father. This doesn’t have to effect their confidence, poise, etc. but it certainly can do so, I’ve seen it enough times.

    A 22 year old man who was raised by a divorcee’ may have different reference experiences than a man who was raised by a mother and father, no matter how blu-pilled that father may have been. Because women’s perception of their sons generally begins to change at puberty. To be a 12 year old boy in a house where your feminist mother and her feminist sister trash plus their feminist friends (all female) trash talk about “men” all the time…is not necessarily a good thing, nor does it lead to positive reference experiences with women. Because a 12 year old is moving from “little boy” to — what? “Dad”? That guy who lives in the crummy apartment, drives the old car, and was never any good (“Mom said so!”), who is always a stupid bumbler on video?

    Yet there are people over 40 who wonder why young men have to be taught how to relate to girls.

    The courses in social dynamics, whether Pick Up Artistry or basic table manners – they exist for a reason, there is a demand for them. It would be much better if a young man learned something about how to manage a woman by watching his parents, but that’s not always possible. It would be much better if college seniors had already learned how to use a knife and fork at home, but if you never eat around a table with other people except at a fast food joint…well, you don’t know what you don’t know.

    Novaseeker
    The story of the last 25 years isn’t that Ginger has gotten more intolerable, it’s rather that MaryAnn has become more like Ginger in terms of entitlement and attention whoring,

    That’s an accurate statement. Hence we get “juice not worth squeeze” talk from some younger men; why put up with Ginger-level entitlement just to be with MaryAnn?

    Plus…from what I can tell, nowadays the more-entitled MaryAnn is a lot more likely to drop a nuclear disqualification on some Beta who just wants to maybe sorta be more than an orbiter, than used to be the case. That can be a reference experience as well, obviously.

  191. Looking for release against a sufficiently high mountain for all her pent up moisture…

    Not sure this wasn’t meant as an innuendo, but more of the Squick and Eew kind than of the Tittilating and Prurient kind. An effective metaphor and memorable mental imagery, I must say!

  192. Frank K says:

    Would surprise me if Gods reward for this isnt a 100ft tidal wave 100 miles long. We deserve it.

    I’m thinking a lot of mushroom clouds, especially considering that about 1 billion children have been aborted.

    Then again, it might not be needed. Those who embrace evil seem to have a fertility rate close to zero. If you spit on the gift of life, it might just be withheld.

  193. Frank K says:

    The story of the last 25 years isn’t that Ginger has gotten more intolerable, it’s rather that MaryAnn has become more like Ginger in terms of entitlement and attention whoring, while not having the glam and hotness that Ginger does.

    Plus these days she fat, tatted and cuts her hair short.

  194. Frank K says:

    Well celebrate is too strong a word I used

    Maybe not. I seem to recall abortionists literally celebrating some states extending abortion laws to allow it right up to the point of birth.

  195. Frank K says:

    So, I made a “Ginger vs. Mary Ann” comment to one of my Captains, and he had no idea what I meant.

    No doubt many “younger” people have never watched a single episode of Gilligan’s Island and many have probably never even heard of it. I suspect that the show has plenty of company: The Beverly Hillbillies, Petticoat Junction, F Troop, and all the shows that get replayed on the “oldies network” MeTV. I once mentioned “Steve Austin” to my doctor and I got a blank look, until I said “Six Million Dollar Man”. Even then it took a moment for it to click. ChiPs? Does that come with guac?

  196. Youth, health, beauty and feminine virtue is the key for women. They combine to form the holy grail of SMV for women of all ages. You can make up for deficiencies in one by maximizing the other.
    But you are so fat, not amount of beauty, youth or femininite virtue will matter.
    You slash your hair off, and there are only a few women on the planet who can pull that off – Dorothy Hamill is probably the only one I can think of who was still stunning and sexually attractive afterward:

    Long hair is a signal to human males of female femininity, youth, health (good nutrition), and therefore a good bet for genetic success.

    It’s important to see the popularity of the “pixie” hair cut and 1920s “bob” hairstyle for what they are. These hairstyles are intentional endeavors by women to de-sexualize and androgynize themselves – to transform themselves into boyish-looking adults who wish to broadcast their sexual retirement.

    And it’s pretty dman effective in making themselves sexually repellent to males in this sense alone, but these short haircuts also send another compelling signal to men – that she is probably going through a mental crisis, depression, anger or even hysteria. Shorter hair is a clear evolutionary “stay away” red flag for human males who are seeking out young, healthy, symmetrical (beautiful) prospect to breed with and raise his progeny. In so many ways, Karen and her bobbed cohorts are doing us a huge favor fellas.

  197. Minesweeper says:

    @Quiet Desperation says:”Being married to a “Karen” entails all the misery described in Proverbs 21:19 and 25:24, especially since the modern church encourages rather than curtails “Karen” tendencies.”

    Oh yeah, Karen’s rule the church nowadays. If men dont bow down and worship them well then thats completely unchristian.

    When I became a christian in the 90’s, I thought church was the last place I would find God.

    Now if an atheist can think that, and its worse now.

  198. Dale U says:

    Since I have nothing better to do, let’s start a poll, from Frank K’s comment re shows people have never heard of or watched.

    Beverly Hillbillies: Heard of it
    Petticoat Junction: Never heard of it
    F Troop: Never heard of it
    “oldies network” MeTV: Never heard of it
    Six Million Dollar Man: Watched it… at least one time.
    ChiPs: Hey! I watched this one regularly.

  199. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Beverly Hillbillies: Saw it a few times.

    Petticoat Junction: Saw it often when very young. Uncle Joe was my favorite character. Then I didn’t watch it for 35 years or so. When I finally saw it in reruns, I was amazed at how beautiful Bobby Jo was. I hadn’t noticed that before.

    Ditto Lost in Space. Saw it when I was very young. Dr. Smith was my favorite character. When I saw it again, some 35 years later, I was amazed at how beautiful Judy was.

    F Troop: Saw it often.

    MeTV: Never heard of it

    Six Million Dollar Man: Liked it as a kid. By now I was old enough to notice women, and I fell in love with Lindsay Wagner, The Bionic Woman. Hoped to marry a woman like her one day.

    ChiPs: Saw it a few times.

  200. Jacob says:

    Brilliant parody of the blue pill, tradcon pedestalization of women. That’s what that was, right?

    err…yes. Parody. Maybe that’s what it was. Or maybe blue pill language to make a red pill point. Maybe it was just waxing Biblical. Perhaps all three. Hard to say for sure. Like I said, a muse.

  201. Frank K says:

    Here is a link to the oldies station website:

    https://www.metv.com/

    From what I can tell, it’s broadcast in most metro areas.

  202. Lori Saunders of Petticoat Junction was the shiznit:

  203. Frank K says:

    What a contrast with today’s square jawed, short haired, masculine female TV “stars”

  204. Paul says:

    Me: Ginger? Who’s that … … Holy cow!

  205. Paul says:

    “1 in 3” …. disgusting!

    With over 1 BILLION registered worldwide forced abortions since about 1920, women are the biggest murderers known to mankind during its entire history. The latest figures show that 25% of all pregnancies currently end in a forced abortion, resulting in 40-50 million casualties EACH YEAR. In comparison, the death rate for casualties of war (which could be more attributed to the moral choices of men), never exceeds 2%.

    When will women be held responsible for this? And how long will it take before when will men be blamed for this?

  206. Ranger says:

    Paul, men already are blamed for this, especially by tradcons.

  207. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    TV women began to look slovenly in the 1970s, in such “socially conscious” Norman Lear sitcoms as All in the Family, One Day at a Time, Good Times, and Alice.

    In the 1980s, sitcom women became even trashier in Married With Children and embraced new depths of ugliness in Roseanne. The latter’s message seemed to be: This is how Real Women — Strong, Independent, Empowered Women — look like — and that’s okay!

  208. Scott says:

    Peg Bundy and Roseanne Conner were obnoxious, true.

    However, hanging on to a somewhat classic mom caricature were Joanna Kerns, Meredith Baxter Birney and Felicia Rashaad (and a few others).None of them were gross, foul mouthed or annoying.

  209. Frank K says:

    They weren’t gross or foul mouthed, but I did find them (Baxter Birney and Rashaad) annoying, Don’t remember Kerns, so no opinion on her.

  210. Scott says:

    For anyone interested in continuing the short hair/long hair debate. Here are two photos taken within a few months of each other, to control for “age” as a variable.

    She cut it right after the wedding, with the dress blues, the gown and all that. She was just barely pregnant and we had to travel across the country to my first duty station, so she wanted something “easier.”

    I did not like the short version at all, but not because of anything objective about it. It was a gut thing. The longer hair signals something primal that I could never quite put my finger on.

  211. Art Deco says:

    They all seem kinda lame. (The two Karens in my immediate circle are endearling and sanguine personalities; both are over 60; one has been married for 30 years and the other for 48 years. Kinda difficult to appreciate these memes with that tape running in my head; the gratuitous profanity doesn’t help either).

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