The screech heard round the world.

Stop the economy!  I’ve got a baaad feeling!

— The Left

thunberg_wiki

Screenshot from Wikipedia

The best part of Greta Thunberg is that like David Hogg, she won’t go away once her moment of usefulness to the left has passed.  Not only did she reach her pinnacle of fame at 16, but her claim to fame is:

  1. Convincing children to skip school on Fridays.
  2. Angrily complaining that she has been wronged.

Neither of these are impressive accomplishments for a 16 year old, let alone lifetime achievements.  You could add allowing a group of men to sail her across the Atlantic, which makes her a sort of modern day Amelia Earhart.  But none of this took real work or skill, and she was rewarded with worldwide fame and adulation.   What are the chances that she will understand she was only a prop, and quietly fade away now that her moment has passed?  In the past she wouldn’t have necessarily had much choice in the matter.  But in the age of social media her ongoing antics will be harder for the media to ignore.  She may have to pull outrageous stunts and screech even louder, but eventually she will momentarily break back out of obscurity.

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396 Responses to The screech heard round the world.

  1. vfm7916 says:

    New?

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/were-group-12-year-olds-trying-make-difference-1992-un-climate-crisis-redux

    This is a long term war, one that’s been fought against Americans for a very long time. If you aren’t having children and educating them to be soldiers in this war while spewing “Enjoy the Decline” you’re doing the devil’s work.

    This is why MGTOWs should crawl off and die quietly.

  2. Children like Greta Thunberg are a dime a dozen. The special aspect of this pitiful episode is that so many adults listen to a child, pretending that she knows anything (rather than just being coached to parrot a message).

    That is astonishing to anyone who does not see that we’re in #ClownWorld.

    For a fun demo, see Greta without a script: she’s stumped when asked to describe her message to the world.

  3. Red Pill Christianity says:

    Greta Thunberg and her entire army of self-destructing “Children of the Corn” is what happens when 50 years of radical feminism and leftist globalist education meet the entitled Millennial/Gen Z generations.

    What we get is a small army of deluded, close-minded kids like this girl, who is clearly suffering from serious mental illnesses. Watch Greta explain, on camera, her numerous mental illnesses:

    If you watch her diatribe, you can feel the hate, the contempt for the privilege she has been given, the disdain for society, the entitlement, and the disdain for her own people and society. The more she is given, the more she hates.

    The lessons:

    1) The more you enable women and support “feminist polices” the more a society collapses;

    2) Scandinavia is a mere preview of American women in the next generation;

    3) Having kids seem more and more like a fool’s errand if you lack the means to raise the kids in an “alternate society” from the hellhole the Left has created. You will be raising your future enemies, indoctrinated by our failed “public” schools;

    4) Our public schools and colleges are hell, so either home-school or private school or you will be raising enemies at home. Not only that, any kid going through public schools will be a know-nothing dunce anyway. College will just make the kid dumber and more radicalized, like sending your kid to a Madrassa;

    5) The future sure looks bleak. I for one, refuse to put in the work and cost necessary to have a kid these days, but I will not discourage others from doing so, if they so want.

    I find it funny that lil’ Greta is all bent out of shape over Global Warming when her own country, Sweden, is collapsing economically under the weight of debt and welfare costs for tens of thousands of Muslim immigrants they mass imported in the last decade.

    Sweden is going to be Muslim majority in 15 years. LOL 😀 I take solace in the fact that that in a few years, a now-adult Greta will not only see the world will not “end in 12 years”.

    And by then she will be force-fitted for a Burka and if she dares run her mouth in public without permission, some “local Swedish” Abdullah will just pimp-slap her across the face for speaking without permission. LOL That is the only silver lining of this whole episode.

    I cannot help but smile to think of the fate that idiots like this will have in a Muslim-majority controlled Western Europe.

    Western Europe will collapse not due to “global warming” but from its own open-border immigration, socialist, and feminist policies. Swedistan will be a great place for feminists like Greta to live in! lol

    Enjoy beetches! You get zero sympathy from me.

  4. Rex says:

    One’s got to love that EU halo she has behind her head in the Wikipedia photo.

    Also, I have noticed an uptick in braided pigtails being sported by the local femmes in recent days. Anyone else see this too?

  5. @vfm7916
    Comparing Mgtows to Satan is just ridiculous in my opinion.
    First, the idea hat Satan out of all actors would select Mgtows to do his work, is a woeful underestimation of what Satan has already accomplished with far less over the last 100 years in the west, well before any of remembered lifelong bachelors were common – even in Biblical times.

    Men overwhelmingly still do want to get married, form families and have assurances of their own paternity, even though the odds are stacked against them, and even though western society at large and the Church itself can barely contain their own unmitigated contempt for men and the interests of husbands and fathers.

    How Christian men still don’t understand this fact is astounding.
    I just go to Church on Sunday now and listen to the sermons and see it and hear it.
    It’s slap in the face no man can miss.

    As long as men are abundant and women have voting rights, you can expect more of the same or worse. We keep circling the drain admonishing mgtows and reluctant bachelors for not stepping up and marrying these STD ridden carousel riders and doped up SSRI addicts.

    Why do we do that?

    The Christian church and its members offer the men who do decide to sacrifice their lives, freedom and monogamy with NOTHING.
    No marital authority, no reproductive or marital rights, no power to decide the fate of their children, and zero social status and respect set against 100% legal, financial, civil and criminal responsibility and accountability. Your side is standing there with an empty sack looking ridiculous.

    Rights, authority, privileges and power must be commensurate with responsibility and accountability. Anything less leads to dysfunction and injustice. The Abrahamic religions all know this to be true. “Doing the right thing” and being a moral Superman means nothing anymore when your fellow Christians are pointing and laughing at you out loud on Sundays while family courts across the country surgically remove your heart.

    If we consider the recent NEVER MARRIED stats from the CDC, in spite of everything men ARE marrying these 10 and 15 year veterans of the c*$k carousel – much to their detriment, because men have never ever lived in an era of such boundless hate as right now.

    Women are not responsible. They are responsible for nothing. They are blameless. The fault of all of this dysfunction and injustice lies at the feet of us men who outright refuse to discipline and control the overgrown children who have been put in charge for no reason except that we wish to copulate with them.

  6. Red Pill Christianity says:

    Rex says: I have noticed an uptick in braided pigtails being sported by the local femmes in recent days. Anyone else see this too?

    Outside of Oktoberfest, braided pigtails is just unsexy and ugly. It is another way to uglify women further, which is always a feminist goal. And it gives women a badass “Katniss look”.

    constrainedlocus says: Comparing Mgtows to Satan is just ridiculous in my opinion. First, the idea hat Satan out of all actors would select Mgtows to do his work, is a woeful underestimation of what Satan has already accomplished with far less over the last 100 years in the west, well before any of remembered lifelong bachelors were common – even in Biblical times.

    Absolutely. Satan has been running the show for the most part, most notably the last 100 years as you explained. Anyone here missed the 20th Century completely? The Progressives and Globalists promised the 20th was going to be “the shining light of all the centuries” and we ended up with two Worlds Wars and almost 200 million dead, Western Europe was in ruins, 80 years of violent communism (still going in China, Venezuela, North Korea and Cuba), and the rise of radical feminism worldwide. That is not to mention the collapse of most institutions the West has relied upon (marriage, family, local communities, the rise of the Boomers and their degenerate Hippie culture, etc), mass Muslim immigration, and the de-Christianization of most of the West, to name a few others.

    Total disaster, save for a few rays of light and hope, like the Roaring 20s, the 1980s and 1990s and the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe, medical and tech advances, and the short lived rise of the Christian right. The rest of the 20th was a horror show for sure. Satan sure was in charge most of the 20th Century for sure.

    MGTOWs have had nothing to do with any of that. MGTOWs are a response to the collapse of marriage and 3rd and 4th waves of feminism. I personally favor the Red Pill/Game response, but MGTOW is another reasonable and sensible response to the threat that marriage has become for men.

    To remind those who may have forgotten: I am NOT a MGTOW. But to attack MGTOWs is dumb and un-productive.

    “A house divided against itself cannot stand”. (Jesus Christ – Mark 3:25).

    Instead of fighting the MGTOWs, focus your anger and focus on the real enemy – Feminists and Leftists. Remember who the real enemy really is.

  7. Nick M says:

    More media’s advertising for the Eat Pray Love lifestyle.

    https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/woman-husband-wedding-dj

  8. Cloudbuster says:

    More media’s advertising for the Eat Pray Love lifestyle.

    None of the mainstream media sites allow comments anymore, because they don’t want readers calling people like that out for the degenerate whores they are.

  9. white says:

    I thought the main criticism of mgtows is that they can’t shut up and have to make every conversation about them. Or something. Apparently it’s okay when anti-mgtows do it

  10. Anonymous Reader says:

    vfm7916, you, Hamster and others from VD appear to be obsessed with trolling the MGTOW into comments. I’m not sure why y’all are so intent in jamming up comment to the point of uselessness, but why not consider a different outlet for your desires? You could catch flies and pull the wings off of them, for example. Or you could join a men’s group at the church of your choice and bellow slogans at other men until the group disintegrates.

    Something other than trolling here would be a good thing to do.

  11. Red Pill Christianity says:

    Nick M, I saw that this morning too. A woman this flaky and this unstable is gonna leave the DJ no matter what 9oh and he is older than her). He will just be saddled with 2 separate divorces by then! LOL

    It is like these women who hook-up with married guys who say “I will leave my wife” and never do. In this case, the DJ did, but how lasting will this whole thing be?

    Eat Pray Love is the FemiNazi’s bible. No wonder stories like this worm their way into every outlet, even Fox.

  12. Anonymous Reader says:

    One cannot help but wonder what the source of Greta’s funding is. Recently it came to light that a small number of wealthy individuals in Germany were largely funding the $10,000 inflatable boats used to transport Africans across part of the Med. We know that Soros funded organizations have bankrolled numerous campaigns in the US to legalize drugs and ban firearms.

    Just those two examples should cause a thinking person to see such manifestations as Greta in a different light. Like a turtle on a fencepost. Turtles do not climb to the top of a post, they are placed there by someone.

    However, I’m sure that men standing shoulder to shoulder can vote the turtle off of the post.

  13. Anonymous Reader says:

    Rex
    Also, I have noticed an uptick in braided pigtails being sported by the local femmes in recent days.

    Obviously that will vary with geographical location. The Pippi Longstocking look doesn’t work with every girl. Today on travel I am in the US midwest, most of the college girls have long hair and no braids. Some might even be natural blondes, for all I know.

  14. emery says:

    So they tried the magic negro with Obama, failed at propping up the magic vagina with Hilary, and now are going with the magic retard child?

  15. Mr. Woot says:

    As we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by an angry mentally ill sixteen year old girl who had a spirit of divination and brought her owners much gain by fortune-telling. – Acts 16:16 WESV

  16. American says:

    It’s safe to say that the misinformed actress is no Joan of Arc. https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/09/greta_the_angry.html

  17. Pingback: The screech heard round the world. | Reaction Times

  18. feministhater says:

    LOL! Some bitch twat decides to screech at the UN in front of the entire world and vfm decides to blame MGTOW.. oh man, my sides! At this point, you have no one else to blame but yourselves. Get your bitches under control, I ain’t doing it for you.

    Open displays of utter insanity, of completely corrupted and indoctrinated youths, incapable of free thought, that is the future. Greta is just a prop, nothing more.

    Learn to say ‘no’ to women. No Greta, No! No one stole your future because they drove cars or burnt fossil fuel. The people who stole your future are the same people who pay you now to be their talking piece. The same ones who sold your country off down the river on mere platitudes and ‘dieversity is our strength’ bullshit.

    Society needs more of these screeching harpies to open the eyes of the blind, release the Kraken..

  19. DrTorch says:

    Talked about this with a co-worker today (a DODO) and he defended her saying she was doing an important job.

  20. Marquess, Labrador Pawgroms says:

    Women are not responsible. They are responsible for nothing. They are blameless.

    Earlier, wisdom:

    Women are not evil.

    And, from another blog:

    Women are fine. Women have simply adapted to the changed culture and context… Stop being resentful of women, because they are better at adapting than men are…

    So boomer.

    Lest we forget:

    Women are sinners.
    Women commit evil acts.
    Women can be wicked.

    Succumbing, “adapting,” to the “culture” of new babylon, to sin culture, preludes the greatest loss of all.

    Every one of us is held responsible for the exercise of our conscience, in the end.

    Puffing up a sinner– particularly one who has only marginal powers of introspection and a was born with a nagging constitutional bent to claw at the yoke of Dominion– is very bad, if you consider yourself Christian.

    The sinner who denies her sins, dooms herself. She perceives nothing is wrong, in her head she commits no transgressions; she will never repent, and she will never atone in this life. She pays, grievously, for her sins, in the next.

    The women and men who encourage her in her pride and self-abuse, scandalize her. They sin, in their vanity and pride or in their pride and wrath, but they sin separately from her. She is still responsible.

    When a bumbleroastie walks into a clinic tomorrow afternoon and asks the physician to slaughter her fetus, do you sin?

    Did you kill that baby?

    Neither did I, neither did the blogger, nor the commentariat… unless the abortionist is among you– but she probably reads huffpo, instead.

    If you cannot discern your own sins, you scandalize yourself.

    If you teach sinners they cannot sin, you scandalize them, and yourself. When you bestow mock-absolution on them, you mock the Holy Spirit. You ruin yourself, ultimately.

  21. scarletlagomorph says:

    @vfm7916
    This is why MGTOWs should crawl off and die quietly.
    Do go fuck yourself, you sanctimonious quim. I’m not cannon fodder to be spent in the preservation of your warped world view and decaying religion.

  22. BTW they are going to throw this young girl away like yesterday’s trash when they are done with her.

  23. Jim says:

    Marquess, Labrador Pawgroms says:
    September 27, 2019 at 3:57 pm

    Lest we forget:

    Women are sinners.
    Women commit evil acts.
    Women can be wicked.

    It’s amazing that has to even be posted as a reminder. And tell that to the feminists, cuck-conservatives, and VD tradcons. They’re all gynocentric. They actually think women are sinless or shouldn’t be punished for it. They’re somehow never responsible for their actions. I guess at the Great White Throne Judgement every woman is going to get a pass into heaven because vagina. I can see it now…”But God, some man made me do it!” Uh-huh, lol. I’m willing to bet billions of these cunts are going to say that at judgement time. I wonder how many pussy-boys (that is, male feminists cuck-conservatives and VD tradcon) will white knight them then?

    Even though Lot’s wife was under his authority did Lot get turned to salt because he wasn’t “alpha enough” or “didn’t maintain frame”? LOL! Nope. God let his wife have it. Lot was NOT at fault for her wife’s sin evne though he had total authority over her. SHE was responsible for her own disobedience and was severely punished. And how about now when it’s the woman who has all the power? Do cunt worshipers really believe that God is not going to punish these whores for destroying so many men’s lives, no matter who enabled it?

    These woman worshiping pussies are a laugh riot. The biggest problem these VD lemmings have is not thinking for themselves. Instead they let some blogger on the internet do their thinking for them which is why they all sound just like him. LOL! I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…the cuck-boys think NOTHING is ever women’s fault. That’s not how Christ, the Son of the Living God, sees it. Better get right with Him and stop making women your god instead.

    feministhater says:
    September 27, 2019 at 3:40 pm

    LOL! Some bitch twat decides to screech at the UN in front of the entire world and vfm decides to blame MGTOW.. oh man, my sides! At this point, you have no one else to blame but yourselves.

    MGTOW is to blame for the money power behind this exploited teenager? Really? How in the fuck does that work? ROTFLMAO! Comedy gold man, comedy gold! Even I’m surprised at just how low some of these cunt-worshiping tradcons have sunk, lol.

    constrainedlocus says:
    September 27, 2019 at 4:10 pm

    BTW they are going to throw this young girl away like yesterday’s trash when they are done with her.

    Of course they will. For them, everyone is just a tool in their evil globalist agenda. Evil will always toss you away when you’re no longer of any use to them.

  24. Corinth Arkadin says:

    The day I allow a retarded teenage girl to lecture me on anything is the day I replace my brain with a head of cabbage.

  25. anonymous_ng says:

    UN?? Nuke it from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.

    Opinion of a 16 yo girl?? Do not care even one little bit what she thinks, especially one who did not have the benefit of being raised by parents as opposed to the older children who birthed her.

  26. American says:

    @ConstrainedLocus: High probability that if she doesn’t turn into a radical leftist Eco-lesbian, she’ll be impregnated by a “child” Islamic refugee in his 20’s or 30’s who will cheat on her (and maybe get her hooked on drugs)… later comes the beatings and forcing himself on her. Looks like this: https://uknews24blog.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/article.jpg

  27. feeriker says:

    scarletlagomorph says:
    September 27, 2019 at 4:08 pm

    Heartily seconded. Increasingly, this is the only polite way to respond to Bealeites, who are beginning to resemble the membership of Jim Jones and his People’s Temple cult.

  28. feeriker says:

    OT: Despite all the cheering we’ll be hearing from Evangelitard churchians, this is clearly NOT good news (and count on cuckservative Faux News to be its cheerleading section):

    https://www.foxnews.com/faith-values/worlds-fastest-growing-church-women-documentary-film.amp

  29. A Portuguese Man says:

    Gretins rule the world.

  30. Hazelshade says:

    I agree with Anonymous Reader’s turtle-on-fencepost take. Greta and the trans children thing are hideous conspiracies for which one’s naïve lefty neighbors bear negligible responsibility. The silver lining is there is no longer a temptation to anger against boomers, NPC’s, etc. It’s easier to love one’s neighbor and share a sense of solidarity when one accepts that we’re all victims of conspiracy.

    Does unauthorized.tv have streams yet?

  31. “This is why MGTOWs should crawl off and die quietly.”

    Ergo, Christians are ultimately no different than the Left. They just wear much more padding. Animals are always animals. No narrative can change that.

  32. Scott says:

    For those who don’t have daily Montana weather updates sent to their phones

    We are supposed to get 18 inches of snow this weekend

    And if you do not like it you’re a sphincter boy

  33. Two comments:

    1) Let’s assume the package (mentally-abnormal female child) and message (BigGov as solution) are both pre-vetted & selected by Elite. Yes, the message is a Lie. Yes, the package nicely fits into recent feminist tropes. But, where is the Media on HOW she’s able to use a Yacht (with crew) and speak at Davos & the UN? They don’t act charitably without ulterior motives (look to the Epstein case for the most recent proof). Easy rule: If (((they))) support it, you can and should reject it.

    2) On MGTOWs: I hate to see the crossfire on this blog and others. It’s hard enough on men already. There are some valuable contributions from their community. We should recognize that. But, it’s true you cannot reconcile a pro-family blog with a position that family is toxic/impossible due to evil females (which, truthfully, are getting more numerous by the day). Better to stop arguing that point and focus on points of agreement, no?

  34. 7817 says:

    I agree with Greta. This is all wrong. She shouldn’t be up there. She should be on the other side of the ocean.

  35. Lost Patrol says:

    We are supposed to get 18 inches of snow this weekend

    Impossible. I’ve just been informed the earth is too hot for snow and stuff like that. What you should be worried about is when it’s 135 degrees F south of the Mason-Dixon line, everyone is going to move to Montana.

  36. Gunner Q says:

    Anonymous Reader @ 1:34 pm:
    “One cannot help but wonder what the source of Greta’s funding is.”

    The Royal Family of Monaco provided the racing yacht she used to speak at Davos without “polluting” the planet with air travel. The yacht, Malizia II, was originally built for the Gitana racing team which is owned by Benjamin de Rothschild per Wikipedia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malizia_II

  37. anonymous says:

    >This is why MGTOWs should crawl off and die quietly.
    go kys vox-scum, you don’t belong here anymore

  38. Corinth Arkadin says:

    Every. Damm. Time.

  39. locustsplease says:

    Even if global warming was real its entirely feminists fault. 2 people working is 2x the cars on road every day. Our vanity and waste based culture is entirely female. Men buy stuff built to last and fix it. You see any single men living in 500k homes? Our huge vacation culture, men hunt fish and drink beer they dont vacation to impress people. What is the carbon foot print of these land whales compared to 115lb 50s housewifes.

  40. Anti-Fem says:

    An old article from the 50’s is making the rounds in social media because it dares give women advice on how to get a husband and makes the assumption that all women over the age of 17 do want to get married! How dare it! If only it knew that the correct age when all women want to for sure get married is 50!

    https://moon-child.net/this-129-ways-to-get-a-husband-article-from-1958-shows-how-much-the-world-has-changed-1/?fbclid=IwAR2__iSnbWN0C_qGKjAz7kvyl8JF2lwzICDDnotI0lmMomkELiDntUUOIdY

  41. Anon says:

    Cuckservatives live Vfm think that MGTOWs have no right to see themselves as anything above cannon fodder.

    The good news is, these cuckservatives are feeling the heat.

  42. American says:

    I’m happy never to have been under the radical feminist body of familial law that comes with the indentured servitude of “marriage” and progeny outside of a carefully qualified surrogate service. I enjoy the liberty, the freedom, the benefits. And I’m a genuine Christian who does not have sex with anyone or anything other than my own hand on occasion. It’s a peaceful life. Honestly, I bother with forums like this and how I vote because I care about the next guy… the next generation… the ones who will be laid off and watch their cheating wife divorce them and use the courts to lock them in jail after she’s extorted everything he has. If not for that concern, which I assume you share, you’d never read a word from me. I’d really go my own way.

  43. feeriker says:

    So … is Greta going to tell the Muzzies who currently occupy her open-air lunatic asylum of a country to stop breeding in order to save the planet? Their birthrate is easily three-plus times that of her own kind, so they should be the first to be forced to “get with the program.”

  44. feeriker says:

    Anyone remember her?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Smith

    Yup. One wonders if Greta will meet a similar ending. Or has the Deep State gotten more creative since then?

  45. JoshtheAspie says:

    As a general rule, I have stopped posting on the internet, it doesn’t seem to be much use. But vfm7916 has caused me to reconsider. After all, if the VFM and their ‘dread’ ilk are going to ignore the bible and attack men who are single and choose to stay single, if they further say they want me to shut up, crawl off into a corner and die, then I take that as good evidence I should do the opposite.

    Instead of talking to my family members (including the young) about the various myths that are pushed, and pushing back on them, I should die? Instead of opposing the argument of one person who is used because she has Asperger syndrome, I should not push back against her myself, I should die? No.

    I’m not interested in sacrificing myself for Vox and his ‘the devil is the ruler of the world’ cult. Oh the devil has his forces to be sure, but the Lord will triumph at the end, and if it please my Lord and Master, Jesus Christ to use me, I’ll willingly be his instrument in that great crusade.

    This is a time of trouble. And because, like Paul, I prefer men who are already single to stay single if they can keep control of their flesh, I am to kill myself?

    No.

  46. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Woman quits job to become a 1950s housewife: https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/10019095/woman-quits-job-husbands-clothes-make-packed-lunch-men-spoilt/

    The cynic in me says she simply hated her job and wants to not work. She says her housework is hard, but there’s no mention of children, and she’s 30.

    Plus, while she’s “given up” modern conveniences — such a modern exercising — and dresses in 1950s clothes, she hasn’t given up selfies. I imagine she takes lots of photos of herself in 1950s outfits for her social media (which I assume she also hasn’t given up).

    The real test if she gives up social media and cell phones, and continues her traditional lifestyle after she’s had several children. Right now, it seem like she’s larping. Doing cosplay.

    Katrina Holte, 30, decided to live like a 1950’s housewife after becoming stressed out by her busy job in a payroll department.

    The part-time seamstress – who sells vintage-style frocks she makes from her home in Oregon in the United States – now cooks and cleans while her engineering manager husband, Lars, 28, goes to work. …

    “My closet is full of 1950s dresses I’ve made myself. I have 1940s-style furniture in the living room and a traditional bedroom.

    “It’s not like it’s a museum but I do try and make it as close to the era as I can. …

    Katrina makes sure dinner is on the table for when Lars gets in from work, and, after eating, the couple relax by playing traditional board games like Scrabble, listening to vinyls and watching old-fashioned shows like I Love Lucy and The Donna Reed Show.

    She said: “My new life started in September 2018, after I left my job, which was starting to wear me down. I was getting tired and I wasn’t living up to my own expectations.

    “I spoke to my husband and told him I want to be a housewife and he said that was fine with him.

    “It was a fantastic feeling when I quit. I can do what I want to now and run my house as I want to run it. Now I’m a full-time homemaker.”

    … she does 15 minutes of vintage exercises.

    “Exercise in the 1930s to 1950s was a lot gentler. There was a lot of stretching, warming up or ‘limbering up,’ as they would say back then,” Katrina explained.

    “I have a vintage slant board, which is a small wooden ramp, to do core exercises like sit ups. I do them for about 10 to 15 minutes a day and they keep me in shape to fit into my 1950s dresses.

    “We have the idea today that we have to push our bodies to the limit, but in the 1950s the attitude was simply that you had to take care of it. …

    “After my exercises I will go upstairs to take my shower and put on a full face of vintage make up.

    “I use vintage products like Pond’s cold cream and Revlon red lipstick and have well-drawn eyebrows, as well as using traditional hot rollers to curl my hair. …

  47. white says:

    @Reality Doug

    Seconded. People, men or women, are biologically wired to eliminate other men they deem no longer useful to women and children. That’s why the deepest anger is always reserved for mgtows and incels. If only there is a religion out there that can solve this problem…

  48. Rpro says:

    The science is crystal clear. The crystal ball science that had been wrong about climate change and ozone layers 41 times? That science? The ones who erased the history of an American who landed a space probe on a moving comet because of “that” shirt? The same science that believes.. Because atoms randomly disappear then reappear there must be another world it has to support? Even GOD rested on the seventh day you blind guides. How dare you?

  49. Dave says:

    She rants on about 11 years till some fantasy dooms day…. yet does not give a toss about her own country becoming an Islamic state in 15 years, marking the beginning of end of her own race.

    My grandmother used to say to me all those years ago, “children should be seen and not heard”, this 16 year old ranting mentally ill girl only reinforces that wisdom.

  50. Ranger says:

    The name of her yacht is Malizia (Italian for malice)? They really like to rub it in our faces, don’t they.

  51. info says:

    The ultimate purpose of Greta is humilation of people like us. This thread shows why

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EdwardBChang/status/1177036057931669504

  52. info says:

    Attempt at embedding:

  53. info says:

    For those who dont like to read tweets here is the text:
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1177036057931669504.html

  54. Trust says:

    Dennis Prager wrote about this leftist tactic of hiding behind children back in 2004. He wrote a follow up article about how he received more hate mail about criticizing the left’s use of children than any other column he ever written. https://www.dennisprager.com/on-criticizing-a-12-year-old-girl/

    His observation was very true. The left invited a child to speak to — and ridicule an incumbent vice president during — the democratic national convention and expected her to be taken seriously, but criticizing her was out of bound because she was twelve.

    The left’s inversion of wisdom is staggering. The notion that the young can ridicule older adults, but older adults cannot criticize the young. A wise society would understand that it is the young that should not ridicule older adults, and the older adults should criticize younger people to make them more responsible.

    Of course, the left’s claims to being open minded are shallow. They prefer monologue to dialogue (college professors, news media, movies where they win scripted debates with ease), and they especially prefer to use “solders” who have something about them that makes responding to them off limits. Then, no matter what they say, any rebuttal is immediately written off as mean, racist, sexist, etc.

  55. Scott says:

    Info-

    That thread about humiliation had a lot of stuff that hit home. The “grandkids are going to be brown” and the Ottoman Empire stuff especially.

    The Ottomans were ruthless to the people they conquered, including my people, the Serbs.

    The castration of first born and the more “alpha” of the boys is a sore spot to this day. They kidnapped many of the boys as infants and raised them to think they were Turks.

    In fact, our families Slava (patron saint for westerners) is Saint George. This is because during the occupation, the villagers of Kljajić used his icon to signal that this was a place of a secret meeting during the six century occupation.

  56. Scott says:

    Didn’t need that second “during the six century occupation” phrase. Still waking up.

  57. Spike says:

    We have to save the Earth! There his no Planet B!
    In order to do that, we MUST:

    -Give women more power
    -Dismantle the Patriarchy
    -Dissolve the family unit
    -Increase access to abortion
    -De-industrialise our countries
    -STOP Nuclear Power
    -Adopt vegan lifestyles
    -Not have children
    -Leave the Third World to develop of their own accord
    -Allow mass migration into our countries
    -Not take our message to India or China

    How can none of these stupid kids see that this is a recipe for complete extinction?

  58. dragnet says:

    I’ve got 100 bucks that says she’s admitted to Harvard in 2 years.

    Honk! Honk!

  59. Frank K says:

    So … is Greta going to tell the Muzzies who currently occupy her open-air lunatic asylum of a country to stop breeding in order to save the planet?

    She probably fantasizes being married to one and having his children,

    Yup. One wonders if Greta will meet a similar ending. Or has the Deep State gotten more creative since then?

    I seem to recall that Samantha and her parents tried to stay in the spotlight after her usefulness expired. Maybe the airplane accident was genuine, or maybe it was the deep state, who knows?

    Perhaps the PTB will arrange for her parents to land some lucrative do nothing jobs with a non-profit, with the understanding that they quietly step aside and disappear from the public eye. Or maybe their electric car will spontaneously combust and barbecue them. The PTB can then weep for her before moving on to the next useful idiot.

  60. Frank K says:

    How can none of these stupid kids see that this is a recipe for complete extinction?

    Because they’re idiots. They want to ban almost all sources of power generation, yet they still expect the lights to come on at the flick of a switch.

    There is talk all over of phasing out ICE engines. Yet no one asks these two questions:

    1) How are we going to make so many batteries, which require rare earth materials which are difficult and costly to mine.
    2) How are we going to generate and distribute all the needed electricity to charge those cars?

    I am considering getting solar panels for my house, not because I believe in them, but because I fear electricity will be rationed in the not too distant future,

  61. info says:

    @Scott
    “That thread about humiliation had a lot of stuff that hit home. The “grandkids are going to be brown” and the Ottoman Empire stuff especially. ”

    Indeed. Its a good thing Serbs managed to survive as a people. Although pretty degraded. Unable to reach the heights of Western Europe in Civilization.

    Serbs were also lucky to not be subject to the successful but not complete genocide that the Armenians and Greek peoples in Turkey went through by the Young Turks.

    I hope God remembers and avenges them as he historically avenged himself on many nations in history as he promised in his word(1 Corinthians 3:17). Although its best if many of the Turks became Christian.

  62. Frank K says:

    I know that the Hungarians also had to free their homeland from the Ottoman scourge, And unlike the Spaniards, who are welcoming the Saracens who they once expelled back into their homeland, the Magyars will have none of that, and they ignore the pro migrant hysterics from Brussels,

  63. Oscar says:

    @ Frank K

    How can none of these stupid kids see that this is a recipe for complete extinction?

    Because they’re idiots. They want to ban almost all sources of power generation, yet they still expect the lights to come on at the flick of a switch.

    One expects 16-year-olds to be that naive. The real problem is that an abundance of “adults” is too stupid to think about the consequences of what they claim to want.

  64. Liz says:

    She says her housework is hard, but there’s no mention of children, and she’s 30.
    That home definitely doesn’t look child-friendly.

  65. Anonymous Reader says:

    dragnet
    I’ve got 100 bucks that says she’s admitted to Harvard in 2 years.

    Not taking that be. It worked for David “Camera” Hogg.

  66. Scott says:

    Info

    There is an argument to made that reason western civilization reached its heights is because Serbs (and other Slavic/eastern peoples had the Turks tangled up on the eastern front, essentially incubating the west during that period

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian-Turkish_Wars_(1876–1878)

  67. Novaseeker says:

    That home definitely doesn’t look child-friendly.

    Yes, well it was common in that era (my parents were like this as well, born in the 20s) for the children to be basically “confined” to a couple of rooms of the home … their bedrooms and maybe one other room, and the kitchen, with the dining and living rooms being totally off limits, almost like museum rooms. We never actually lived or dined in those rooms, other than when there were visitors — they were for “entertaining” only. So if you want to recreate that lifestyle, you need to … actually recreate that lifestyle. What is going on there, I think, is LARPing, as someone else said, rather than actually living like people did then.

  68. Frank K says:

    and they ignore the pro migrant hysterics from Brussels

    That said, I wonder how long until Soros and company come up with their own Greta, who will scream “how dare you!?” at the Hungarian people for refusing to accept a tidal wave of hostile invader “immigrants”.

  69. Yeesh! I almost pity the poor brainless randy DJ for getting involved with a tramp like that. Almost.

    Her poor ex-husband, though: I just hope they hadn’t yet had kids, so that there’s no reason for him to even consider looking back at that! What a Jezebel!

  70. feeriker says:

    That said, I wonder how long until Soros and company come up with their own Greta, who will scream “how dare you!?” at the Hungarian people for refusing to accept a tidal wave of hostile invader “immigrants”.

    Hungary not being Sweden (to put it gently), methinks that any attempt by Soros and Company to create a Hungarian clone of Greta will result in said clone being “liquidated” quite quickly.

    As for Soros himself,the fact that this virus originated in Hungary must be a source of profound shame and embarrassment, and any attempt by Soros to stick his filthy fingers into Hungarian affairs would, I imagine, be met with a more severe reaction than usual.

  71. Frank K says:

    with the dining and living rooms being totally off limits, almost like museum rooms

    Yup, I remember that. Many newer houses in the US no longer have formal living or dining rooms.

  72. Opus says:

    I can remember when the drawing-room was as Novaseeker says like a museum. This changed with the arrival of the television set. Then in the Seventies it became and remains the fashion to remove the wall between the drawing room (now renamed the living-room) and the dining-room thus providing more light and a greater impression of space.

    Apparently, according to my friend, British politicians this week were falling over themselves to say nice things about that mentally-ill Swedish child. My friend was as scathing as I and equally sceptical about the local council’s new system starting Monday where we now have to divide our waste in to three and more different containers. I now cannot move in my kitchen for containers. The council has declared that it will by 2030 be Carbon Neutral whatever that means though I’d say at the moment the Council is Intelligence Neutral. My friend was also much in approval of something Mr Trump did this week but what I forget.

    I went out and bought some lamb-chops which I eat with relish as I counted just how much CO2 this was probably sending into the sky. I have not enjoyed meat so much in ages and will do so more often now that I am a bad man for doing so. Sheep may safely graze but not if these lunatics ban the consumption of meat as Michael Mansfield Q.C. (aging left wing Counsel) is predicting – why is it that all the people one knows who are veggies seem to have a perpetual cold and look ill?

  73. Anonymous Reader says:

    @Opus
    The New York branch of the narrative machine aka “NY Times” has run an article on how marvelous it is to eat insects. This has popped up a couple of times now. Our betters have a plan for us, clearly.

  74. Paul says:

    Vegetarians live six to nine years longer than meat eaters. Fact.

  75. 7817 says:

    Vegetarians live six to nine years longer than meat eaters. Fact.

    But can you really call it living…

  76. 7817 says:

    Since everyone is off topic anyway…

    One of the best videos I’ve seen on mgtow, but these aren’t tradcons: https://youtu.be/GdZENygkFv4 from earlier today.

  77. Jacob says:

    A longer life in this world has never been, is not and will never be synonymous with a better life.

    My father is a vegetarian. He’s approaching 90 and is healthier than his wife and all of his children. He’s also been a self-serving bastard all his life, treating others as chattels or entertainment or the means to prove his superiority through argumentation. His constantly needy sense of self worth begins to suck the goodwill out of any room as soon as the the requisite pleasantries have been exchanged. He has always been like that. He has brought brought little more than darkness and misery in his 90 years on earth. He has no close friends and his family care for him out of duty. He will be forgotten quickly when he dies.

    In contrast, there’s a 25 y.o. man at my church who suffered a back injury when he was a teenager and who is a wheelchair bound paraplegic for life, who brings more creative love and spreadable joy into the world in five minutes than my father did in fifty years. And he eats meat.

    In my experience, vegetarians are self-involved creatures, concerned not for the world as it was created but for how the world is for them.

  78. Frank K says:

    where we now have to divide our waste in to three and more different containers

    And everything, except for cans and maybe clear glass will wind up in the landfill anyway. My BIL over on your side of the pond dutifully sorts his waste into umpteen containers and thinks that the world is a better place for it. He even keeps a compost heap in his tiny yard, though I’m not sure why.

  79. Frank K says:

    Vegetarians live six to nine years longer than meat eaters. Fact.

    I’ve met plenty of vegetarian fatsos over the years.

  80. cshort says:

    Vegetarians live six to nine years longer than meat eaters. Fact.

    @Paul

    Two things First, please provide a cite because I don’t see one in any of the research studies I can find that gives those figures. Second, while there is research/studies that show vegetarians live longer on average than non-vegetarians there is one none of them do and that’s declare vegetarianism as the cause. You’re doing the classic, primarily leftist, mistake of mistaking correlation with causation.

  81. PokeSalad says:

    If you aren’t having children and educating them to be soldiers in this war while spewing “Enjoy the Decline” you’re doing the devil’s work.

    This is why MGTOWs should crawl off and die quietly.

    Lighten up, Francis. The enemy of your enemy is your friend.

  82. PokeSalad says:

    Vegetarians live six to nine years longer than meat eaters. Fact.

    Bull. Shit.

    Fact.

  83. BillyS says:

    So VFM, how many hours last week did you spend with a man who had no other friends? I will bet it is 0 like all the other bloviators who can tell men how to live, but who never lift a finger past their own families.

  84. Scott says:

    Jacob-

    Your father sounds like a real piece of work, and your point is well taken.

    Vegetarianism, like all other “isms” has the potential to be an all-encompassing ideology. Some of them are appealing to particular personality types, I think. But, as you point out, there is zero correlation between what diet one subscribes to and character.

    And i have gone back and forth on this issue my entire adult life. In the years immediately following high school, I gained a ton of weight, didn’t really exercise much, and it was one of the things my wife cited as a deal breaker for her in the end (among a very long list of things).

    It was near the end of my marriage (I was about 27) that I went crazy and went all in-counting every every calorie in and out, counting every gram of macro nutrient, working out 20 hours a week, etc. I wanted so bad to show that I had the character to discipline my intake and output.

    As I said, I went back and forth for many years. I have run several marathons, and competed in fitness competitions.

    Most of us would choose an overweight smoker who is kind, loving, understanding, and good versus a super in-shape fitness freak a$$hole.

    One of the things that I think I want to try some time is to actually eat according to the Orthodox feast/fast liturgical calendar and to consume food in that year according to Christian principles in spirit as well That is to say, you can technically fast for 40 days by abstaining from meat, dairy, alcohol and all that, but still pig out on other things. Christians should have an appropriate relationship to food. (Orthodox fasting is basically vegan for 4 lentin periods a year).

    I bet if one did that, combined with a healthy exercise regimen, they would maintain a healthy weight, and feel pretty good too.

    It is sad to hear a man speak so poorly of his own father. I hope he is Christian and one day realizes what harm he has done to the relationships in his wake, before it is too late. I hope you have figured a way to honor him, in spite of his obvious lifelong bridge burning.

  85. Scott says:

    When I was in Afghanistan, I did what most married guys do, and got in shape. I used my tried and true methods and within 6 months I was at the top of my game, again. My buddy, a Major from a different unit, and about 2 years younger than me, tried to match me step for step, because he said he was “inspired” by my results. He was a self-proclaimed vegetarian. He would come back to the clinic with a pile of stir fried vegetables up to the ceiling. He never went to the gym. At the end of the deployment, he looked exactly the same. I told him, if you eat 4000 calories a day and never work out, this is what happens.

    There is no magic bullet. Calories in vs calories out. Eat clean. Eat a variety of fresh fruits and vegetabels and lean sources of proteins. Just between the several diffrerent types of tomato there is so much variance in bioflavonoid combinations that you really can’t afford to skip anything. Keep the sweets, fatty stuff and other processed junk to a minimum.

    Thats it.

  86. 7817 says:

    The enemy of your enemy is your friend.

    This isn’t always true, and it’s definitely not true for men who love and choose the status of loser. I don’t want to be friends with those guys or associate with them. Guys who are losers but want to get better and work at it, they are a completely different story.

    Rich Cooper says it pretty well.

  87. info says:

    @Scott

    Indeed and Byzantium did something similar until 1453.

  88. BillyS says:

    Yes, you are a loser 7817.

    Scott,

    The thing missing from the calories argument is that some go out without being absorbed. I don’t know exactly how it works, but it is clear it isn’t an exact relationship. I am listening to a book on “How We Get Fat” that is a follow-up book to his previous one on sugar and he makes some very good points that it is far from the simple thing many have taught. Some get more primed and almost gain weight by looking at sugar. Others do not. I can likely never go on even a brief period of sugar indulgence since my body is keyed to spike off of it. (His claim and my past experience.)

    I do look just like my grandfather, just being a foot taller, so I suspect genes plays a serious role for most of us as well.

  89. BillyS says:

    But then Jesus was a loser too since he had compassion for others and held His sharp whit for those who claimed to be religious and commanded others to live the life they could not.

    Hit some rough patches and your smug self-assurance may not stick around. Though then Vox and others got to practice incredible sin but they are cool because it all worked out right! Those of us who stayed faithful all the time and lost out just didn’t do it right.

    Such smugness is eating at me more and more these days as the reality of being alone in my older years sets in, in spite of all I did to avoid that. I am not even what would normally be called MGTOW, but I can at least honor them more than the self-righteous posturing. Look how quick VFW tried to derail things here. Stick with being right in your own mind. You are the secret king after all!

  90. 7817 says:

    Aaron Clarey, in the video I linked, states that he thinks the term mgtow is cancer now. His reasoning is pretty interesting.

    If you’ve lost the original mgtows to the point that they are saying you have made the term into cancer, you might want to reconsider your position.

  91. BillyS says:

    Aaron Clarey was not preaching from the Scriptures the last time I checked.

  92. Warthog says:

    Well, she can always Twerk at the UN in order to raise the stakes. She is an actress after all…

  93. feministhater says:

    No one cares what you think 7817. It’s a choice made by each man. Just leave them alone. Rich Cooper sells soap and lies to men. Charging hundreds or even thousands of dollars for some seminar. Con men are a dime a dozen. MGTOW gives for free what these men charge for.

    MGTOW doesn’t do anything to anyone. It doesn’t demand anything, it doesn’t need anything. Labeling something cancer doesn’t necessarily make it so. That’s just an excuse. Aaron Clarey and Rich Cooper and you and hamster and all the other fuckers in here don’t like MGTOW because it does not do what you want it to. That is all. You’re all pieces of shit because you don’t like men walking away from a bad deal.

  94. Jacob says:

    Scott,

    I should have excluded vegetarians who choose it for medical or nutritional purposes. My father is vegan because that’s how he was raised. But it’s not that which creates the problem. It’s the holier-than-thou way he wields it, just like your typical SJW-hero vegan. He’s done this ever since veganism became hip. He uses is as another way to extoll his own virtues and laud it over others, not unlike the character of the Greta bandwagonners.

    Speaking that way about my father is hardly poor, given the misery he has created in our family and beyond. There is much more I choose not to speak of. It’s also true, and speaking truth to make a useful point is honoring God. My father would consider it a hat tip to himself.

    And no, he is not a Christian. He thinks of and treats Christians as mentally defective. We honor him by ensuring he’s comfortable and in no material need, and by praying for him. I take your point and appreciate the pull-up, but he gets far more than he deserves.

  95. Oscar says:

    @ Paul

    Vegetarians live six to nine years longer than meat eaters. Fact.

    The problem with that statistic is that it fails to isolate variables.

    For example, vegetarians are more likely to exercise than meat eaters, and meat eaters are more likely to smoke, drink and overeat than vegetarians.

    Now, if you were to compare vegetarians who exercise, and avoid overeating and smoking with meat eaters who also exercise, and avoid overeating and smoking, and you got the same results, you might have a good point. But, until you isolate variables, you can’t logically reach the conclusion that abstaining from eating meat is the cause of vegetarians’ longer life expectancy.

  96. Opus says:

    Veggies are like Homos: A lifestyle choice which thrives on turning straight (meat eating) people gay (veggie). They begin by telling you that it is a personal private fetish which they promise to practice merely within the confines of their own home but look what happens – the moral superiority, the sabotaging of ordinary life and then the suggestion express or implied that should you eat meat or fish or even drink milk that you are some kind of moral monster. It is a religion; or at least part of the religion of secularism (which includes driving internal combustion engines) – a joyless, intolerant, religion of negativity and denial whose only joy is the outing of miscreants. I am told that even my Vinyl records are some sort of threat to the environment. When everything as it must be is some sort of threat to something else then life becomes impossible to live. Was Jesus a Veggie; I have no doubt someone will be making the claim that Jesus and the Apostles were 100% Veggie (just as they are 100% MgTow. Christianity I regret to say seems to me to have been taken over by the secular Marxists and Feminists obsessed with the things of this world and not with the saving of my soul.

    How long before a movement springs up which insists that eating vegetables is unkind to vegetables or eating fruit is unkind to fruit.

  97. Scott says:

    Jacob, yes I know the type.

    I know someone, similarly on in years with the same attitude.

    Her “atheism” is part of a larger condescension that she has toward everyone around her and it includes a very bizarre, expensive “natural” diet regimen. She and her husband have to drive enormous distances to obtain these special ingredients that the rest of us are too stupid to know about.

    Every illness, every pain, every physical or medical complaint the rest of us have is because we do or do not eat such and such thing or such and such way. And it always starts with “I hate to tell you this, but…”

    But indeed she is lying. She LOVES to tell you “this” because you are supposed to respond with “my gosh, why had I not thought of drinking a bunch of twigs placed in boiling water and eating only super green algae foods after 3PM on Thursday! You are brilliant!” It is a drag going to visit for even a few minutes.

    It got worse after a string of untimely deaths in her family (cancer, etc). Her veiled attempt to live forever in the absence of a belief in the eternal is sad, really.

  98. Oscar says:

    @ Opus

    Was Jesus a Veggie;

    The main course of the Passover meal was lamb, and Jesus cooked fish for the Apostles on the shore of the Sea of Galilee after the resurrection (John 21), so the obvious answer is “no”.

    I have no doubt someone will be making the claim that Jesus and the Apostles were 100% Veggie

    Sadly, I’ve heard ignorant Christians make that very claim.

    I regret to say seems to me to have been taken over by the secular Marxists and Feminists obsessed with the things of this world….

    Marxism (in all its forms) is a religion for people who’ve abandoned Judaism and Christianity. That’s why secular Jews, and secularized Protestants and Catholics invariably turn to Marxism.

    … and not with the saving of my soul.

    To be fair, you don’t seem overly concerned with the saving of your own soul.

    How long before a movement springs up which insists that eating vegetables is unkind to vegetables or eating fruit is unkind to fruit.

    Ever heard of fruitarianism?

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Fruitarianism

  99. Paul says:

    Wow! Some of you really get triggered by vegetarianism!

    Before calling vegetarians homos, sad people, devoid of any life (nice ad-hominems people!), consider that the original diet for humans WAS vegetarian. For whole generations up till Noah, people did not kill animals to eat. And Daniel was a vegetarian too, and :

    Daniel then said to the guard whom the chief official had appointed over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah, “Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see.” So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days. At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food. So the guard took away their choice food and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead.

    So maybe, if it was God’s original design to be vegetarian, it can’t be that bad, no?

    Which is proven by studies that show vegetarians live longer, eating red meat is bad for you, and the health advice to people in general to eat more fruit and vegetables.

    It’s interesting that in multiple taste studies some vegetarian products are actually PREFERRED by meat-eaters if they don’t know what if what they get served is meat or non-meat.

    Look for instance at the “Impossible™ Whopper®”

    But for what it’s worth, keep enjoying smoking, drinking, and eating meat! Your choice.

  100. purge187 says:

    Getting back on topic – Greta is sort of like a Scandinavian Veruca Salt.

  101. Corinth Arkadin says:

    NO, the Enemy of our Enemy is still our Enemy, and anyone who says different is trying to sell you something.

  102. Anonymous Reader says:

    7817
    Aaron Clarey,

    …is poolside, enjoying the decline. That’s been his riff for years.
    Rather surprising you choose to cite him as a source.

  103. Anonymous Reader says:

    Paul
    Which is proven by studies that show vegetarians live longer,

    Moving your goalposts so soon?
    In any event, a citation is required. Please do so.

    But for what it’s worth, keep enjoying smoking, drinking, and eating meat!

    “Vegetarian” is orthogonal to “smoker” and also to “drinker of alcohol”. For example, I personally know lacto-ovo vegetarians who have smoked and who still drink alcohol, yet they do not eat meat.

    Are you deliberately trolling for flames, or just displaying bad logic for some emotional reason?

  104. feeriker says:

    Wow! Some of you really get triggered by vegetarianism!

    Not nearly as much as do dogmatic vegetarians when their dietary choice is criticized, scrutinized, or doubts about its efficacy raised. Both vegetarians and vegans have a habit of treating their dietary choices as religions and react accordingly when others show themselves to be non-believers.

  105. feeriker says:

    Aaron Clarey,

    …is poolside, enjoying the decline. That’s been his riff for years.
    Rather surprising you choose to cite him as a source.

    Please tell me that you’re not expecting consistency and logic from the Bealeites.

  106. 7817 says:

    Aaron Clarey,

    …is poolside, enjoying the decline. That’s been his riff for years.
    Rather surprising you choose to cite him as a source.

    Don’t be. I enjoy reading people who I disagree with, they’ve got things to teach to.

  107. Opus says:

    God knows there is little of variety to eat on this Earth and modern science has barely added to what our ancestors found edible and thus forswearing meat and fish and milk and cheese for why – I have no idea – yet what I do see is that those who do go Veggie or Vegan do so with religious sanctimony. It is not as if they say that actually they just do not like the taste of Pork or Beef or Salmon or Plaice even coated in sauces but that for some incoherent moral vacuity of a reason they make life difficult for everyone else by avoiding all meat fish and associated foods. Vegeterianism is thus Ultra Calvinist as is the entire global warming/coming ice-age hoax, the recent change of name from Global Warming to Climate Change a case of prejudging the issue is evidence that they have no idea what will happen and that the scientists or at least the politicians are hedging their bets as to which way the weather is going to go and go it always does. Veggies are like the teenage boy who comes dressed to his parent’s dinner-party in his pyjamas doing so on the basis that he is not quite indecent and who is anyone to tell him what to wear when no two people are dressed identically not even the men.

    In my life time that I can recall we have had the following scares not one of which ever came to pass:

    1. Fear that the Soviets would Nuke us.
    2. Fear that Europe would run out of food – [drum roll] by 1972
    3. Fear that we would run out of Petrol/Gasoleen
    4. Fear that we would overpopulate
    5. Fear that we were at the beginning of a new ice age
    6. Fear that AIDS would cut a swathe through Heterosexuals
    7. Fear that all computers would stop at the milenium
    8. Fear that we would all fall victim to Streptococcus

    The really awful things that did happen no one came close to predicting – and likewise the better things too were not predicted.

    Oscar knows a lot of my soul apparently and so I would ask in true Pascal style (hedging my bets you see) that he pray for it.

  108. Westray says:

    “Most of us would choose an overweight smoker who is kind, loving, understanding, and good versus a super in-shape fitness freak a$$hole.”

    Wrong. That came straight out of your a$$ just to fit into your post. And why are you speaking for so many people?

  109. Red Pill Christianity says:

    **Cloudbuster says: More media’s advertising for the Eat Pray Love lifestyle.
    None of the mainstream media sites allow comments anymore, because they don’t want readers calling people like that out for the degenerate whores they are.

    I have noticed that as well. Get the Dissenter app/add-on and you can still comment on sites that ban commenting! 😉 LOL

    **Anonymous Reader says: One cannot help but wonder what the source of Greta’s funding is. Recently it came to light that a small number of wealthy individuals in Germany were largely funding the $10,000 inflatable boats used to transport Africans across part of the Med. We know that Soros funded organizations have bankrolled numerous campaigns in the US to legalize drugs and ban firearms.

    Excellent point!!!! Without doing any research and based on past events: it is George Soros funding. We also know he games out State Dept to get “free funding” from US taxpayers for numerous welfare and mass importation of “refugees” into the USA and Western Europe. The entire “refugee” scam to mass import Muslims from the Middle East and Africa to destroy all of Western Civilization is done by globalists and wealthy leftists like Soros.

    Soros is also funding and literally buying District Attorney through local elections across the USA in order to increase crime while he pushes to ban guns for law-abiding citizens.

    This is EXACTLY the Brazil model, which was later replicated in Venezuela and Mexico. We are already seeing the rise in “mob-based crime” like we saw in Brazil back in the early 1990s where groups of thugs would rush in and steal and run off. Because they went unpunished, just like they are not punished here in USA now, they got emboldened.

    Later, without any fear since guns were now banned in Brazil and self-defense laws were almost completely removed from the books, tens of thousands of thugs from local favelas (ghettos) would charge down and invade malls, beaches, parks, and knock everyone down rob them and kick them on the ground until they pass out. This was called a “Brazilian Arrastão” if you want to search and see what I am saying. It was total chaos. The public, now disarmed and in fear, demanded more laws and more elite control to make the crime waves stop. Crime waves the elites created.

    By increasing chaos and removing your ability to defend yourself, the elites greatly increase their powers and curtail personal liberties to abuse the citizens, under “it is needed for public safety” arguments.

    Everything Soros gets involved in only has one purpose: to destroy The West and its people. He is the Sauron of the real modern world, an unseen evil force moving in the shadows to destroy anything that is good left in this world.

    As for lil’ Greta, she has 3 things to look forward to in the next 12 or so years:

    1) Total disappointment when in 12 years she turns 28, is still single and alone while charging towards The Wall at 100mph without a helmet on…. and lives to see the world does not end. 😀 lol Beautiful!

    2) Continues to live in misery inside her sick mind for the rest of her pathetic life. Let’s hope rat poison prices stay low, who knows with such a miserable whack job…? I wonder how she feels about the fake “Ukraine whistleblower” fraud has stolen all of her thunder and literally no one is talking about that UN circus anymore. 😀

    3) Gets force-fitted for a Burka in Muslim-majority Sweden.

    Got to always look for the silver-linings of life.

  110. 7817
    Don’t be. I enjoy reading people who I disagree with,

    When you cite someone in support of your own opinion, you are agreeing with them. Clary’s poolside approach is very different from you stated position. Perhaps you have a bit of cognitive dissonance going on.

  111. 7817 says:

    When you cite someone in support of your own opinion, you are agreeing with them.

    Yes, agreeingwith the specific words cited.
    Not necessarily with every opinion of the person, but with the cited words, or cited opinion. Your pedantry is boring.

    Barack Obama has said things that I agree with. So has any number of people. Doesn’t mean I agree with every other opinion they have.

    Pedantry is pinheaded.

    Nuance is nice.

  112. Red Pill Christianity says:

    **Westray says: “Most of us would choose an overweight smoker who is kind, loving, understanding, and good versus a super in-shape fitness freak a$$hole.”

    Women would choose that??? In what parallel reality is that? Someone call Dr. BluePill for an urgent psyche analysis here. LOL

    (Red Pill truth above. Anyone who even glances at the Red Pill for a few seconds knows that women almost always pick douchebag a-holes over good guys 99.99% of the time.)

    **Opus says: God knows there is little of variety to eat on this Earth and modern science has barely added to what our ancestors found edible and thus forswearing meat and fish and milk and cheese for why – I have no idea – yet what I do see is that those who do go Veggie or Vegan do so with religious sanctimony.

    Vegetarians are the most miserable people you meet. They are cranky and moody constantly due to the lack of proteins and amino acids to keep their hormones and brains healthy. Just search online, there is a ton of polling and peer-reviewed studies showing vegetarians get invited to fewer social events, are unhappier, and moody constantly.

    Vegetarianism and food-controls is a Marxist tenant:

    *As for Aaron Clearly…. clearly, he is 100% up-front that he is NOT a Christian nor pretends to do so. Aaron took the Red Pill and later decided to Black Pill in terms of “saving society” and decided to just “enjoy the decline” because he sees almost no hope left for The West. That is his choice. Tons of guys are doing that these days, including myself, whereas I do not want kids anymore since I do not see a good future for any kids I were to have (at great personal cost, sacrifice, and expense) to grow up in a 3rd world America, an angry, dangerous, and divided country thanks to mass immigration and educational indoctrination of million of American kids over last 30 years.

    **feministhater says: MGTOW doesn’t do anything to anyone. It doesn’t demand anything, it doesn’t need anything. Labeling something cancer doesn’t necessarily make it so.

    I do not understand this at all. WHY attack MGTOWs? More MGTOWs = more free women for Red-Pilled guys who learn Game! They do zero harm to everyone else and actually passively HELP ManoSphere causes.

    (Again, I am not a MGTOW, but why the hate??)

    MGTOWs know the truth, they have taken The Red Pill, but chose MGTOW rather than Game. I choose Game, they choose something else. Leave them be. What a pointless line of attacks.

  113. Anonymous Reader says:

    Vegetarianism and food-controls is a Marxist tenant:

    How much rent does Marx charge them?

  114. Westray says:

    It wasn’t me saying that. It was Scott. I disagreed as well, as shown in the second half of my post.

  115. Red Pill Christianity says:

    West, I was just quoting your quote (I cannot use the Italics quoting tool here for some reason).

    Thanks for clarifying, and yeah I saw it was Scott. It is truly laughable. lol Maybe he is talking about a country where feminism and female privileged does not exist and life is actually hard. Back in Ukraine, life is already hard, so women do not seek a-holes who will mistreat them, as we see in the Western World. The women there truly want nice guys, as long a these men can make sane decisions, display basic masculine traits and keep them same with a roof over their head and food on the table. I saw this firsthand.

    But when get back to my beloved USA, we see armies of White Knights, unlimited welfare, special police services, privileges in job hiring, college admissions, govt programs, biased courts, Duluth policing, and all the privileges of Western Feminism in a first-world, women get bored and seek out a-holes who treat them like dirty and create endless drama. You get Greta Thonbergs, Oprahs, Dr. Christine Blaise Fords, AOC’s, and Kim Kardashians.

    Just ask any Western woman who has been in abusive relationship in the past, about how was life with the abuser. They sign, laugh, and say “there was never a dull moment with that man” as they longingly miss those “good” ‘ol days.

    We live in truly sick times in the Western world today. This should be the greatest time to be alive and yet women have wrecked our civilizations with radical feminism, enabled by weak Betas. All of their un-earned privilege, safety, and wealth have corrupted women beyond repair. We will soon find out how much longer this party is gonna last before the bills are due.

  116. Frank K says:

    They sign, laugh, and say “there was never a dull moment with that man” as they longingly miss those “good” ‘ol days.

    AKA, “the one that got away”

    I seriously doubt that any of the girls I dated ever sigh and think of me that way. Of course, I never raised a hand to any of them, nor was I ever a jerk. More likely they look back and think “why did I ever date that guy? And that was almost 40 years ago, I can’t even begin to imagine what it’s like now. They probably would never have dated me to begin with.

  117. Frank K says:

    We will soon find out how much longer this party is gonna last before the bills are due.

    Given that we’re running trillion dollar deficits I expect the party to end sooner rather than later. And this will be exacerbated by the great job die off, when AI based automation displaces tens of millions of workers. Andrew Yang’s promise to give everyone $1000 a month is going to become a lot more popular in the near future, though I seriously doubt he’ll be able to fund it with a 10% sales (VAT) tax.

  118. feeriker says:

    Andrew Yang’s promise to give everyone $1000 a month …

    Since nobody can live on a grand a month, if we’re talking U.S. dollars (unless they’re wilderness survivalists), I’m assuming that Yang is just blowing verbal flatulence out of his ass.

  119. Frank K says:

    I think that part of the (unspoken) deal is that:

    1) More people will join the underground economy or the gig economy
    2) A majority of people will adopt living conditions we consider unthinkable today, like living full time in a camper, or worse. Of course the camper shell on an old pickup truck will be history, as we are forced to retire our ICE vehicles.

    In any case, it’s moot, there’s no way a sales tax can fund it, plus expect activists to demand that illegals also get the $1000 a month. Yang does a lot of hand waving on funding it, assuming that we will remain a consumer economy, ignoring the fact that people with low incomes do very little “consuming”.

    That said, the great job die off is going to make for “interesting times”. It will have a huge impact on Medicare and Social Security, as the taxes collected for them will plummet. Get 80-90% of what is being promised in those nice Social Security pdf files you can download?. I’m thinking maybe 50% at best. And to make it worse, there won’t be menial jobs for seniors to complement their meager SS checks.Move in with the kids? They’re also unemployable.

  120. Spike says:

    Greta Thunberg has been the theme of many memes. Dr Steve Turley pointed one out in one of his talks that is particularly humourous:

    https://starecat.com/greta-thunberg-emperor-good-let-the-hate-flow-through-you/

  121. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Paul, I’m not sure that Daniel was a vegetarian. My Catholic study Bible suggests that we don’t know why Daniel avoided meat. It might have been because the meat in Babylon was “unclean.” Perhaps it had been offered up to idols. Perhaps the Babylonians ate and served a lot of unclean animals, like pork.

  122. Oscar says:

    @ Paul

    So maybe, if it was God’s original design to be vegetarian, it can’t be that bad, no?

    Genesis 9:3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

    Which is proven by studies that show vegetarians live longer, eating red meat is bad for you, and the health advice to people in general to eat more fruit and vegetables.

    Except that the studies prove no such thing, because they fail to isolate variables, such as exercise, smoking, drinking, and overeating.

    Do what you want. Eat what you want. No one is stopping you.

  123. Anonymous Reader says:

    What Pippi said.

  124. Red Pill Christianity says:

    **constrainedlocus says: “…lifelong bachelors were common – even in Biblical times.”

    You mean like Paul of Tarsus?

    **constrainedlocus says: Men overwhelmingly still do want to get married, form families and have assurances of their own paternity, even though the odds are stacked against them,and even though western society at large and the Church itself can barely contain their own unmitigated contempt for men and the interests of husbands and fathers. How Christian men still don’t understand this fact is astounding.

    Two things.

    One: Men want that great feeling, that rush they get when they meet a woman, fall in love, get engaged, and get married. It is an emotional high. Trust me, SHE feels it too when they are young. Just look at couples that recently married, they are easy to spot. They have this look and they are on Cloud 9. If you have had this feeling before, you know what I mean. 😉

    Young men are the real romantics and they become cynical over time with learned experiences. Don’t you recall how easily you fell in love with some pretty lass when you were a teenager and in your early 20s?

    That is why young men and women had to marry very early in life. You only get that rush when you are a young and inexperienced man. The older you go without every marrying, the more experienced and aware (RP, if you like) with life. That is why most men who never married before will likely never marry, ever, after they pass 30.

    Women in particular, become angry and bitter as time goes by and the longer she rides the rooster carousel, the less “life will be left in her eyes”. Until one day, all you see is bitterness, despair, and rage.

    Two: The Blue Pill is a powerful tool of the Left. We are all born Blue-Pilled, just as we are born into sin. As long as we are good obedient little Blue Pillers slaving away under their system, then their scam can keep going indefinitely.

    If men Red Pilled by substantial numbers, the whole feminist scam social system would collapse in months, not decades. This is why the ManoSphere and movements like MRA, MGTOW, the Red Pill, and Game are vilified so much. They cannot let it grow too much. So they use “Progressive churches”, their entire media apparatus, the entire education system, constant men-are-at-fault (MeToo, college assaults, and numerous other hysterias), and others to keep us in line.

    Good news is, the Millennials and Gen Z boys are lazy, unmotivated, undisciplined, and see no reason to improve themselves. Just look at college enrollment numbers… the feminist public education system combined with widespread discrimination in admissions of young men are so drastic, women are pushing 70% of college students in Millennial and Gen Z stats. The guys are checking out into “permanent teenagehood”. You hear the feminists harping about this endlessly already.

    In time, the whole scam will collapse on its own. Women will have to carry more and more of the load to be able to claim their “strong and empowered” status that they will want men to go back and share the load.

    How and when will this all go down? It will be generational, with grave societal consequences of course, but it is simple economics. The incentives for young men today are virtually none, so they are not even trying anymore. The natural economics of life will fix this in time, leaving wreckage as it goes.

    **constrainedlocus says: The Christian church and its members offer the men who do decide to sacrifice their lives, freedom and monogamy with NOTHING. No marital authority, no reproductive or marital rights, no power to decide the fate of their children, and zero social status and respect set against 100% legal, financial, civil and criminal responsibility and accountability. Your side is standing there with an empty sack looking ridiculous. Rights, authority, privileges and power must be commensurate with responsibility and accountability. Anything less leads to dysfunction and injustice.

    It is such a raw deal, only the Ble Pillers take it these days. Or the very rich who can afford the financial disaster a divorce represents.

    That is why 70% of men between ages 20-34 are never-married today. (cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/bachelor-nation-70-men-aged-20-34-are-not-married) Market forces are slowly changing this.

    Gen X’ers like myself were the first generation to feel the blunt of the “Divorce Revolution” firsthand. It has become an unsustainable system and the evidence is there for new generations to SEE firsthand is now too undeniable. Before the Gen X’ers came of age, this mess was not in place. Now we have 2 generations since that have seen how bad of a deal Marriage 2.0 is. It cannot be denied or concealed anymore, no matter how much Pastors, media, schools actually try.

    In decades, it will change, all based on free market principles and simple economics. When marriage rates hit 10% or less, things will slowly begin to change. Men are simply delaying the inevitable by sticking to a 1950s mindset when it is clearly 2019 and radical feminism rules.

    Supply and demand, natural economic forces will adjust this mess. It is like a car that breaks down constantly, like a Yugo or Lada cars. In time, they either change or vanish completely. The market forces ultimately control life and decisions.

    Even the most violent regimes of the Soviet Union and Communist China had to change to continue to exist, no matter how brutal and totalitarian these regimes were. Now we have Russia with zero welfare and China moving into free markets, even as dictator Xi Jinping does his best to prevent the innevitable and continual pull towards more free market principles into China.

    Because of changing market forces, women who want marriage will either:

    a) Marry down, a trend ALREADY HAPPENING even in feminist hellholes like NYC
    (see: https://nypost.com/2016/06/01/the-solution-to-nycs-man-drought-date-down/ )

    b) Women will have to drastically improve themselves to be able to snag the few best men who prepared for marriage and want marriage. I saw this in Ukraine all the time.

    c) Mobilize en masse to push for actual legislative reforms in legal system to end marriage abuses against for men. If women truly want to save marriage, they will mobilize, they are good at doing that. But I do not count on that, since women in our society are so entitled and selfish.

    d) Push for men to be FURTHER mass incarcerated for failure to marry or something Soviet-styled like that. I could see Warren, Gillibrand, or Kamala Harris pushing for this, since they are totalitarian feminists.

    **constrainedlocus says: Women are not responsible. They are responsible for nothing. They are blameless. The fault of all of this dysfunction and injustice lies at the feet of us men
    who outright refuse to discipline and control the overgrown children who have been put in charge for no reason except that we wish to copulate with them.

    Isn’t it the story of The Garden and the Fall of humanity just like that? It turns into a blame them game right there and then, with the woman taking zero responsibility for tricking her husband. The difference is that God Himself held them each responsible individually and proportionally.

    Today, we have an entire society based on radical feminism that excuses and defend women’s absolutely worst behaviors, no matter how bad it is.

    Woman murders her kid(s)? She is mentally ill or her husband is at fault for not helping her, etc etc. Andrea Yates, Casey Anthony, and Ohio’s newborn killer Skyler Richardson all come to mind – literally ZERO punishment. Another “Favorite” is the woman who helped that dude kidnap and imprison Elizabeth Smart, she is already out of prison and he got life, even though she was the “de facto jailer” of Liz Smart, she got a slap on the wrist.

    Woman DUIs? Husband allowed her to drive a car. Woman steals from her employer? Pay discrimination caused her to be desperate. It never ends and since women get 1/5th of sentence a man receives for same crime, they act without any fear.

    Women cheats on husband? It is husband who failed her. This is one thing Dalrock has helped me explain to at least 100+ guys I know in person and online.

    Woman frivolously divorces her man? He did not manage his marriage or he failed her, etc etc. This is most churches’ default position.

    Woman has kid out of wedlock with a criminal now in prison for decades? No worries, she will get a massive welfare package, including almost free housing, food stamps, WIC, Medicaid, etc etc.

    As long women are not held accountable and suffer no consequences for their decisions, they will continue to do so.

    Why should they stop? The incentives to do wrong and act irresponsibly are all there.

    **constrainedlocus says: If we consider the recent NEVER MARRIED stats from the CDC, in spite of everything men ARE marrying these 10 and 15 year veterans of the c*$k
    carousel – much to their detriment, because men have never ever lived in an era of such boundless hate as right now.

    Humans only respond to two types of incentives: rewards and fear. Why do you think it says “fear The Lord…” and not “respect The Lord”? When you fear The Lord, you automatically respect, appreciate, and work for His purposes.

    The Soviets really understood this and since there is no rewards in Communism, they used fear. In Free Market systems, rewards make us work extra hours, make good decisions, save, etc. That is why the Bernies and Liz Warrens of the world want to remove all incentives with high taxes and punishing those who work hard. They like stagnation and dependency because it gives them power and makes you weak and afraid.

    Go to Scandinavia today, you will meet throngs of men, even Gen X’ers who live shabbily on welfare and do nothing, but they still live on and vote for the Socialist party. They have zero incentive to do anything, since they live in a welfare society with zero incentives for men due to radical feminism.

    It is also fear that makes men marry bitter carousel riders later in life. It is a terrible thing.

    Men fear being alone at a hospital, old, and dying. No legacy. No one to remember them in their deathbed. It is a depressing scene from a movie that gins up our worst emotions. The fear causes men to become desperate and marry just about any woman, no matter how messed up she may be.

    There are alternatives to this “dying alone” scenario. Get involved with a good local church and make it known you plan to donate some of your Estate to the church and they may name some of the new construction, for instance, in your honor. You are doing a good thing and will get some brownie points with God too in the next phase of life.

    Mentor local teens that have no male role models. Lead a Boy Scout troop and focus on making a difference on individual lives. Think of how in the movie “Grand Torino” a kid not related to Clint Eastwood becomes his legacy, since his own biological family did not care or appreciate him.

    Get close to a relative, say a nephew or younger cousin or whatever. Mentor them, teach them, give them good gifts for holidays and birthday. Tell them stories of your travels or lessons you learned. Take them out for field instruction to Game, help them learn. Fill the Blue-pilled void left by your brother or whatever.

    A “Legacy” and “being remembered” is about what you pass on to the living.

    “Dying alone” and not being remembered is almost a choice. This is a fear strategy to get men to marry late in life and get almost nothing out of that.

    We are all working for Treasures in Heaven, not on Earth, but here is still much knowledge and good we CAN do and leave behind. 🙂

    There is much good a man can do to leave a Legacy and be remembered years after they are gone, besides marrying some bitter carousel rider later in life. Just sayin’.

  125. Red Pill Christianity says:

    Frank K says: 1) More people will join the underground economy or the gig economy
    2) A majority of people will adopt living conditions we consider unthinkable today, like living full time in a camper, or worse. Of course the camper shell on an old pickup truck will be history, as we are forced to retire our ICE vehicles. In any case, it’s moot, there’s no way a sales tax can fund it, plus expect activists to demand that illegals also get the $1000 a month.

    The lack of understanding of basic economics by public-school educated Americans is staggering and frightening. The fact anyone could believe in this scam is a sad indictment of our failed education system.

    1) Exactly! You create the Ukrainian economic system to keep this new welfare benefit going. In Ukraine, everyone works cash-basis and pay $0 taxes, employer pay people off the books, they have a “secondary register system” where items sold do not go into books so that they do not pay income taxes on sold items (and report items as stolen or missing). Tax revenues are way, way down.

    Illegal aliens already do this; they work for cash pay and pretend to be poor by filing income taxes close to $0, so they bilk American taxpayers for billions of Dollars a year in welfare. The average illegal with a US-born child gets about $42,000 a year in taxpayer benefits (direct and indirect).
    Why do you think the rush of pregnant illegal women to rush across the Border never ends? It is not only Anchor Baby help to slow down deportation over time (kids cannot petition for parents until age 21 anyway). This is a financial decision more than anything for the illegals.

    2) What happens if you raise wages to say $15 or $20/h nationally? Not only millions of small businesses would close their doors, but PRICES WILL GO UP drastically. That makes the $1k dividend moot and useless.

    Too much supply of money = inflation (increase in prices). This is not new. This is basic economics, I am talking 18th Century knowledge. See Zimbabwe, today’s Venezuela, and the Weimar Republic for recent examples.

    2a) Two-thirds of American economic activity is related to consumption (directly and indirectly). Increases in sales tax DISCOURAGE consumption. That means even if he were to create a national sales tax (VAT, like they have in Western Europe), he will simply make product costs so dang high, people will buy less and live with less and be poorer. Economic activity declines and the US economy stagnates.

    The $1,000 “dividend” Andrew Yang is proposing simply will create inflation and the “ways to pay for it” are simply going to collapse economic activity. And worst of all, it will mean everything will cost a lot. It is moot and pointless.

    (We can just put Andrew Yang in there instead of Maduro. Yang, his donors, and his tech oligarchs will just continue to live in total luxury, of course)

    That is why tech nerds like Yang and “Indian” college professors like Liz Warren should stick to computers and teaching and leave economics and governing to the

  126. Oscar says:

    @ Opus

    Oscar knows a lot of my soul apparently

    Was I right, or wrong when I wrote that you don’t seem overly concerned with saving your own soul? Because, if I was wrong, then I owe you an apology. But, if I was right, then what’s the problem?

  127. Paul says:

    Vegetarians are the most miserable people you meet. They are cranky and moody constantly due to the lack of proteins and amino acids to keep their hormones and brains healthy.

    I don’t know where you get that from, but it’s pure BS; a vegetarian diet contains all proteins and amino acids you need.

    Even eating vegan (which is a bit more challenging) will not hinder any muscle buildup, see for instance
    https://www.greatveganathletes.com/all-athletes/

  128. Paul says:

    Paul, I’m not sure that Daniel was a vegetarian. My Catholic study Bible suggests that we don’t know why Daniel avoided meat.

    Duh.
    Vegetarian = someone who doesn’t eat meat

  129. Acksiom says:

    >I am not a MGTOW, but why the hate??

    It’s not hate. It’s fear. They rage out against MGTOW because male liberation is a threat to their wealth and status. The more men who drop out, the more they will have to pay the men who stay in. But they’re too greedy and lazy to do anything about the underlying causes because that would also cost them more in wealth and commitment than they want to pay.

    They don’t care enough about their communities’ posterity to take the long view, so they’re loudly opposed to fair deals for other men whom they consider their servile and undeserving inferiors.

    They don’t want to pay men what their surplus production is increasingly worth, so they try to devalue and dehumanize them in everyone’s minds. And that’s why the “hate”.

  130. Paul says:

    Genesis 9:3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

    And that disproves … what? I already mentioned that up till Noah everyone was a vegetarian, which was the original pre-fall diet. Do you think God made a mistake with that?

  131. Opus says:

    @Oscar

    When I made my Will a decade ago – a document that will at Probate be open to the public to read – I commenced it as they once did (I have seen a lot of old Wills) as follows: “I commend my soul to God” and go on to indicate that I wish to be buried according to the rites of the established Church preferably in a part of the countryside surrounded by sheep and under the shade of a tree. God is an Englishman – don’t take my word for it, it is the title of a novel by R.F.Delderfield.

    I was just thinking (a propos the ever complaining Feminists) that as well as being the last of my line I am only the sixth generation of Opus’s (I surprisingly perhaps have documentary proof of the fact but I do) that have both been able to read and to write. Consider that (whether you think the human race is four thousand years old or older) when I am being told how stupid and useless I am! Likewise (a propos the Feminists) I am only the third generation of Opus’ males who have been entitled to vote in National elections to Parliament. No matter how bad things may seem nevertheless in both geological and historical time that is the blink of an eye. It was my Mother who taught me to read (and also told me all about the baby Jesus though that did cause me to have a WTF moment) – not the school I subsequently was forced to my great unhappiness to attend (I ran away).

  132. Opus says:

    Game?

    I have to share this: outside my apartment block I have for a day or two had a chap sitting on the ground as if homeless (he can’t be because he is not sleeping there and so I assume lazy scammer). I was just coming in when I overheard a long-haired, middle-class not-fat female in her twenties approach this otherwise nondescript fellow saying ‘”you don’t feel hungry, do you?” and then indicating that if he would join her she will have a meal with him in the sub shop. Wow.

    We also have a long term vagrant who has on cardboard in front of his pitch a list of donations that he does not want yet still women throw such stuff at him – which then merely makes a meal for the Seagulls and Pigeons whom he feeds.

  133. Scott says:

    Westray-

    In a forced-choice scenario with a made up dichotomy, I am betting that most people would rather be surrounded by out of shape, junk food eating smokers who never cheat, never steal, never lie, won’t steal your wife, watch your house when you are gone…basically Howdy Doody civic-minded nice people, then single digit body fat, vegan eating, daily gym visiting, non-smoking scoundrels.

    It obviously not ever going to happen, because those are two polar opposites on a normal distribution of people measured on only two dimensions–moral throughput and diet/physical health.

    The point is that its a values clarification.

    Most Americans have no sense of food intake as a character issue, and maybe they should. Our motto, which was once “live free or die” is now “who are you to judge me?” So, the thought of looking at ones caloric intake as a discipline is pretty far out there. Like I mentioned in that same comment, some of the more ancient forms of Christianity at least have taken a liturgical stab at it. A yearly feast/fast schedule that revolves around praying, contemplating certain saints and other important historical church landmarks, and trying to couple food to those meditations. Pushing the plate away from your belly when you have eaten a sensible meal and you are satiated (instead of stuffed to the gills) strikes me as a good way to discipline yourself in all areas of life.

    Jacobs father is of a known personality variety. He uses his dietary choices as a battering ram to make his family feel like inferiors–basically losers compared to him. That was the context of the point I was making.

  134. Novaseeker says:

    Most Americans have no sense of food intake as a character issue, and maybe they should.

    This is one of those things that varies a lot by socio-economic class. In the upper-middle/high-educated/metropolitan class, there is a LOT of moral judgment around food intake and physical fitness in general. It’s not expressed openly in terms of making explicit moral judgments in public (or print), but rather privately and subtlely. Make no mistake, there are plenty in this group who are not fit, but there are more fit people in this group than in any other, and most of the people who are fit in this group are very, very morally judgmental of those who are not, and of what they consume. In fact, I’d say that this is one of the more widely shared concepts of “sin” in this group, together with having the “incorrect” social/political opinions, and cheating on one’s spouse (one of the few “old school” sins that is still rather widely shamed in this set).

    Overall throughout the society, however, you are certainly correct. Most Americans have no sense of food consumption as being a moral issue or even on the moral radar screen, and this is visibly discernible when one travels around the country.

  135. Scott says:

    Nova-

    To your first paragraph– agreed and noted.

    As Christians, and particularly Orthodox ones, we would see this as a disfigured and grotesque distortion of food intake-as-moral indicator, I think.

    Of the more devout liturgical adherents I have known so far, I can honestly say I have never met an obese one. Neither are they overtly or covertly concerned with what other people eat. I detect no judgementalism in them. They inspire the rest of us to do it the way they do it, without a word.

  136. Scott says:

    BillyS-

    It seems like in the vast majority of cases, the standard CICO formulas (Harris-Benedict, etc) work just fine. But, I also get the feeling that the one variable that is hardest to account for can roughly be described as “metabolism.” I am sooo not the nutrition scientist on that so its pretty rough.

    What I mean is, the categories assigned using those equations are really imprecise, like “moderate activity” and so on. You basically factor some number above 1.2 to get your “metabolism” or calories burned in excess of your BMR.

    I am kind of like that, so I have had to add heart rate and be almost obsessive about it if I want to see the numbers I am looking for. All I need in that case is a HR monitor that accounts for age, sex, height and weight and I use those figures as my “calories out” number. I calculate a “sedentary” BMR and only record calories out accounted for by exercise. I get so obsessive about it that deduct the calories I WOULD HAVE BURNED per hour anyway, (if I had not worked out) so as not to cheat even a little.

    But I am like you described. Just looking at a donut makes me gain 10 lbs.

  137. Scott says:

    I guess my point there is it seems like metabolism is a function of not just age/sex/height/weight but also genetics and current level of conditioning.

    Because of 20 years of running I have a very low resting heart rate which means I have to really rev it up to burn anything.

    It’s stuff like that you can account for with a HR monitor

  138. Oscar says:

    @ Paul

    Genesis 9:3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

    And that disproves … what?

    I never stated that it disproved anything. On the contrary, it proves that God told people to eat meat. Was God wrong to tell people to eat meat?

    I already mentioned that up till Noah everyone was a vegetarian, which was the original pre-fall diet.

    Do you live before the fall, or after the fall?

    Do you think God made a mistake with that?

    No. Do you think God made a mistake when he told people to eat meat after the Flood?

  139. westray says:

    Scott,

    What are you even talking about? “Non-smoking scoundrels”?? You’re way out over your skis on this one.

  140. Liz says:

    The Diplomad (“Politics of, by, and for the seriously disturbed”):
    https://www.thediplomad.com/2019/09/politics-of-and-by-seriously-disturbed.html

    As you all know, the media ran lurid accounts of a mysterious and anonymous (of course) “whistleblower” who had revealed incredible evil doings by the Bad Orange Man in the White House, you know, the one who denied Hillary Clinton her rightful inheritance. President Trump mentioned the Bidens in a phone call! Oh the horror! It seems that this so-called President Trump had a conversation with the new President of Ukraine–how dare he!!!–in which the subject of corruption came up. This would not prove surprising, since the new Ukrainian president ran and won on a platform of ending the rampant political corruption in Ukraine. It seems that in discussing corruption in Ukraine the topic of the Bidens came up. No way around that.

    You all know the back story. Joe served as Obama’s “point man” on Ukraine and China. Not clear why (except perhaps as a way to make Joe rich), but he was “point man” on two countries of which he has no particular knowledge. Well, you see, ol’ Joe has a ne’er do well son, by the macho name of Hunter. He got bounced from the Naval Reserve for drug use, has DUI arrests, and a bizarro personal life. He’s ostensibly a lawyer but is in reality a kid living off his father’s fame and position. Purely by accident, of course, Hunter got placed on the board of a corrupt Ukrainian energy company–along with John Kerry’s step-son–and paid somewhere between $50,000-$83,000 per month for his “advice.” Mind you the kid has no expertise in energy or Ukrainian affairs. Nice job. He also has a billionaire contract from the Chinese government for his firm. All of these things happened right after Daddy visited Ukraine and China. You can read up on all the sorry details. Joe Biden has bragged openly about getting a Ukrainian prosecutor fired who was investigating the firm that hired Hunter. It’s all very embarrassing.

    Now thanks to the mad prog insistence on going after Trump for allegedly “pressuring” President Zelensky to sabotage Biden, that torpedo aimed at Trump is–as with all the other ones put in the water by the lefties–circling back. Biden is in trouble. Suddenly his corruption is an issue. This might help explain why Obama tried to talk him out of running; that torpedo might just make contact with SS Barack. It now seems clear, especially after the Russia hoax, that Obama-Biden ran the most corrupt and dangerous administration in our history. I cheer for that torpedo.

    I am also concerned with yet another sign of progressive mental disturbance. Some 16-year-old Scandinavian girl, Greta Something Swedish, is being hailed as a great beacon of clarity and moral purpose in pursuit of another ongoing hoax, Climate Change. I heard her speak at some fake panel, and while full of admiration for her English, I must conclude that we are witnessing either an ardent student of the Meryl Streep School of Acting or a seriously abused child. If she’s not acting, I worry that she poses a danger to herself and others. Put her on suicide watch, at least. We have here a perfect example of a youngster programmed by some adults and sent forth much like we see Islamic child suicide bombers, or Mao’s Red Guard, or the Hitler Youth.

    The left is so mentally disturbed that they want to kill as many children as possible, in the womb preferably, and turn those who live into robots spouting nonsense and preaching death and destruction which can only be avoided by giving the Progs more power over all of our lives.

    Give us your children! Your guns! Your cars! Your hamburgers! Your air conditioning! We will control all and ensure we all live good lives. All praise to Gaia!

  141. Scott says:

    Westray

    I’m confounded by your response, again

    What I’ve proposed is a thought experiment. People engage in them all the time, in order to clarify and internalize their own values on a subject.

    Simply put, it goes like this;

    You are confronted with a choice. You can live in a world (or community or neighborhood or whatever) populated entirely by A) super in shape, clean eating, vegetarian fitness freaks with low moral character

    Or

    B) overweight, meat eating, non-exercising smokers with kind, benevolent consciences

    Stipulating that I will never actually have to make this choice, in the abstract and for the purposes of the exercise, I choose B

    In doing so, I am able to interact with the topic of how I determine a hierarchy of values and then describe and articulate what my ideal world might look like. It also helps me behave in a manner consistent with those articulated values, or decide if I need to modify something.

    After choosing B, I would then set myself upon the task of trying to convince my kind, but out of shape neighbors of the benefits of eating right and exercising.

  142. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Red Pill Christianity: It is such a raw deal, only the Blue Pillers take it these days. … That is why 70% of men between ages 20-34 are never-married today.

    No, as other have said, most young men want to be married. The main reason they’re not is because young women won’t marry them.

  143. westray says:

    Bizarre, pointless thought experiment.

  144. scarletlagomorph says:

    @Red Pill Latecomer

    No, as other have said, most young men want to be married. The main reason they’re not is because young women won’t marry them.

    Most men in that age group want to fuck; neither marriage or children fall into any particular level of importance. The conscious desire for marriage and children, i.e. the traditional home life, is tied inextricably to religion. Look at the rates of religious affiliation amongst those age groups, and drill down further into actual faith expression:

    https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/age-distribution/

    And that’s to say nothing about actual attitudes toward marriage. Less that half of people getting married per year list children as an important factor. Only six in ten marriages per year are first marriages, the sort most likely to produce large, stable families.

    The fact of the matter is that sex and marriage have been fundamentally uncoupled at a societal level. Because of this, the Pareto principle defines the sexual access parameters for society at large. A tiny percentage, somewhere between 5 – 10% of the largest breeding population (18 – 34), retains unfettered access, the remaining portion are still required to deliver some form of social-acceptable monogamy for sexual access. One look at the fertility rate makes it clear that men aren’t delivering that on that obligation.

  145. thedeti says:

    Most young men want to be married eventually because they want families and because that’s the only way most young men can get sex.

    But most young men aren’t ready to be married, financially, emotionally, developmentally, professionally. I was almost 28 when I got married in 1996 and I still wasn’t anywhere close to ready. In 1996 I was almost a year older than the age of the average man getting married, and I still wasn’t ready.

    Most young men today are even less prepared for marriage now.

  146. Scott says:

    thedeti-

    And the bummer about that is it runs the risk of being declared a “man up” rant. But the reasons men aren’t prepared for marriage are complex, and discussed in detail here.

    1. “Marriage” in the present form is not a rational arrangement
    2. Men, in general wouldn’t be inclined to “prepare” for something irrational
    3. There is a tiny minority of people trying to preserve what is sometimes called “marriage 1.0” (people in remote communes and tiny religious communities) and the path to enter/joine something like that after you have already lived a life in this mainstream culture is basically non-existent.

    ,,,and so on

  147. Frank K says:

    FWIW, I do not share the secular world’s obsession with lifespan extension. Whether you live to be 70, 80, 90, 100 or even longer, any of those numbers is but a moment in eternity. If you believe you’re going to be dead forever, why does living 10 more years matter? In the end you will lose everything anyway.

  148. JoshtheAspie says:

    @scarletlagomorph
    A tiny percentage, somewhere between 5 – 10% of the largest breeding population (18 – 34), retains unfettered access, the remaining portion are still required to deliver some form of social-acceptable monogamy for sexual access. One look at the fertility rate makes it clear that men aren’t delivering that on that obligation.

    Rather, I’d say that women and society at large are more narrowly defining this conditional obligation. As such, fewer men who used to fall within the range of what would be considered “socially acceptable” men for monogamy has basically shrunken to nil. At this point, all men are considered for are ‘at will’, to be relieved at any point (or no point) at the whim of the wife.

    This leaves us a society of serial polygamists (polygamists who take their marriages one at a time, rather than in parallel), some members of which just don’t exercise their options for serial polygamy.

  149. Oscar says:

    @ Opus

    So, you’re counting on your will, and the title of a novel. Thanks for the confirmation.

  150. Oscar says:

    Off Topic: Casey Anthony wants more kids.

    https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2019/09/28/casey-anthony-considers-having-more-kids-because-her-biological-clock-is-ticking/

    Casey Anthony is reportedly open to having more children because “her biological clock is ticking.”

    The South Florida woman, who was accused, then acquitted, of the alleged murder of her two-year-old daughter in 2011, said she is thinking about having more children, sources close to Anthony, 33, said.

    Some genius will likely oblige.

  151. justdoit says:

    I need to say something. Not to anyone in particular on this blog, but to everyone. I’m as red-pill as they come, but it looks like among the eagerness to dismiss Greta Thunberg’s fame as un-earned and purely a product of gynocentric thinking, the baby (the environment) got thrown out with the bathwater (gynocentrism). I therefore would like to say a few words about the environment and environmentalism, as pertains to red-pill thinking.

    Look, burning lots of oil is an incredibly gynocentric activity. Also gynocentric: Starting lots of wars and killing lots of poor people in other parts of the world, just so that the American female can maintain the ever-expanding lifestyle to which she has become accustomed. But I digress.

    Burning barrels worth of oil to impress chicks and assert dominance is as far from red-pill (and MGTOW) as it gets. Driving a big oil-guzzling CO2-monster of a truck to distinguish yourself from the girly-women AND the girly-men is pure mangina gynocentrism of the worst kind. Flying some chick to Hawaii or Paris in order to satisfy her vanity is stupid, not just from a red-pill standpoint but also from an environmental standpoint.

    So, men and women alike, get your heads out of the Saudi desert sand, and out of the oil barrel, and start thinking about something that is important but overlooked. Burning oil is NOT red-pill. Refusing to burn oil, refusing to waste oil in order to satisfy female vanity, is as red-pill as it gets. With an overheated planet, and running out of cheap fuel, who is it that will suffer: MEN. Women will retract to some new-found Victorian bonnet-bobbing housewife safety as soon as the safe and easy jobs are gone.

    Men will be left with all the exhausting and dangerous jobs that will result from lack of fuel, food and shelter. Floods, fires, windstorms, cold, heat, and farming for the daily bread. Who will be forced to do it? Men. Burning oil like there is no tomorrow devalues the labor of men. And when the oil is all gone, nearly men will get to suffer back-breaking labor.

    Men are the primary victims of Global Warming.

  152. Jim Christian says:

    I immediately thought of David Hogg and the Parkland Gang, the lot of them with misshapen heads, crooked ears, the vacant stares of the inbred and depressed. This Greta, she’s definitely of them. I wonder if these are clones? This Greta supposedly has more mental deficiencies than Mars has M&Ms. Every now and then they unleash a freak.

  153. Crank says:

    “REEEEEE! REEEEEE!!! CLIMATE CHANGE! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!” *****contorted face******

    Progs: “OMG, she’s so brave and wise. The wisdom of children will save us all.”

  154. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    thedeti: most young men aren’t ready to be married, financially, emotionally, developmentally, professionally.

    FWIW, Dennis Prager says that (except for a few extreme cases) there is no such thing as “not ready for marriage.” He says that’s an excuse people use to avoid marriage. That no one is ready for marriage until they marry. Getting married is what makes you ready for marriage.

    He also says that men aren’t really mature until after they marry. Surprisingly, he’s said the same about women.

  155. Anonymous Reader says:

    It’s odd how every environmental scare always has the same cure: a total, global, government with absolute power over just about everyone. The 1970’s impending Ice Age for example.

    It’s also interesting how many people refuse to deal with the reality that is China. Mercury pollution in the western Pacific has been steadily increasing for 20 years; all that coal burned on the mainland of Asia is upwind of the Pacific. Just to pick one example – and mercury is definitely a pollutant, unlike carbon dioxide, which is plant food. Not one environmentalist has gone to China to chain himself, herself or itself to some object in order to block construction of a coal-fired power plant. I wonder why that is?

    For sure Greta’s handlers won’t be taking her to China any time soon.

    There is definitely a religious side to the Greta Crusade. Not formal religion in the sense of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc. but the entire program must be taken on faith, any logical or real world contradictions are to be cast aside.

  156. Anonymous Reader says:

    RPL
    Dennis Prager

    Is a pedestalizing, Blue Pill loser who is on his third marriage. Worthless, like all the other Boomer conservatives who have not even managed to “conserve” the little girl’s bathroom. Not a source of information or advice.

    Prager is for entertainment purposes only. If one likes that sort of thing.

  157. Frank K says:

    Driving a big oil-guzzling CO2-monster of a truck to distinguish yourself from the girly-women AND the girly-men is pure mangina gynocentrism of the worst kind.

    I doubt anyone on this forum “rolls coal” (actually, at least in my neck of the woods, that fad seems to have passed).

    But the enviros are dying to pass onerous “carbon taxes” which will make driving a reasonable car, and heating your home in the winter or cooling it in the summer become cost prohibitive.

    I looked into solar panels for the house the other day. The break even is still close to 20 years where I live (where a kwhr is about 8 cents). If course, if we bump that to say 50 cents a kwhr then solar panel could make sense. Thankfully we are not there yet.

    Electric cars are still too expensive. Without taxpayer subsidies, a lowly Nissan Leaf starts at $33000, plus sales tax. A Chevy Bolt is $44,000.

    A good apples to apples comparison is the Kia Soul. The EV version costs twice what a conventional one costs (~$40K vs. ~20K)

  158. Joe says:

    Red Pill Latecomer says:
    September 30, 2019 at 2:09 pm
    thedeti: most young men aren’t ready to be married, financially, emotionally, developmentally, professionally.

    FWIW, Dennis Prager says that (except for a few extreme cases) there is no such thing as “not ready for marriage.” He says that’s an excuse people use to avoid marriage. That no one is ready for marriage until they marry. Getting married is what makes you ready for marriage.

    He also says that men aren’t really mature until after they marry. Surprisingly, he’s said the same about women.
    ***********************************************************
    He has a point. This is used as an excuse.

    And it goes out the window when you meet someone you are truly attracted to.

    I have no idea if me or my wife were “ready”, whatever that means. We never talked like that.

    Her: “Do you think we’re ready?”

    Him: “Oh I don’t know. Are we ready? Perhaps we should seek wise counsel”.

    Pffft. LOL. HAHA and all that. I didn’t tell anyone I was going to propose. Not my parents, not my Bible study, not anyone. It was none of their beeswax.

    We just liked each other. She still tells me “I just REALLY like you a lot, Oh, and I love you too”.

    Ah… attraction. You can’t manufacture it. It’s either there from the get go or not.

  159. Gunner Q says:

    Frank K @ 11:50 am:
    “FWIW, I do not share the secular world’s obsession with lifespan extension. Whether you live to be 70, 80, 90, 100 or even longer, any of those numbers is but a moment in eternity. If you believe you’re going to be dead forever, why does living 10 more years matter?”

    Believing death is the end is WHY it matters. If the king and pawn go into the same box when the game is over, why not be a king? If the price of kingship is lying, stealing and all kinds of evil, how can you regret it after you’re dead? This is why atheists simultaneously want euthanasia and no death penalty. They don’t want their lives cut short for “maximizing” their happiness; meanwhile, if that life gets too unpleasant then they want the opportunity to “zero out”.

    Only when the existence of eternity is factored in, along with a God judging good and evil, does the calculus shift to patient suffering for righteous conduct.

    I think this is where Aaron Clarey goes wrong in his condemnation of MGTOW. He doesn’t see an eternity, doesn’t see a payoff in denying material pleasures for a nonmaterial reward. Even if the material pleasures are debased and bait in traps, he thinks the proper response to society’s collapse is to enjoy/consume what you can because dead is dead. Meanwhile, many (most?) MGTOWs find enduring value in refusing to play that rigged game,

    Evidence for this is his recommendation (in his book Enjoy the Decline) to take full advantage of the welfare state. I refuse to use welfare because I believe it shouldn’t exist and not being a hypocrite is more important than a few bucks, but he (correctly) sees no problem with zero-sum morality if death is the end of all.

  160. Scott says:

    GunnerQ

    Agreed. It is incredible, though, how when you really look at it, most people–even Christians are behaving as if motivated by the temporal. I am guilty of this all time, and I believe in eternal justice.

    The body and its passions are wickedly enticing.

  161. 7817 says:

    I think this is where Aaron Clarey goes wrong in his condemnation of MGTOW. He doesn’t see an eternity, doesn’t see a payoff in denying material pleasures for a nonmaterial reward. Even if the material pleasures are debased and bait in traps, he thinks the proper response to society’s collapse is to enjoy/consume what you can because dead is dead. Meanwhile, many (most?) MGTOWs find enduring value in refusing to play that rigged game

    In the youtube discussion I linked upthread, when Aaron Clarey was explaining his views on mgtow to Rich Cooper, Rollo Tomassi, Jon, Rian Stone and LFA, he stated that the problem with mgtow is the ones who are using it as an excuse to not try, he used the term cowardice.

    His commentary runs from 36:40 to 42:30 in the video, and it’s worth listening to even if you disagree. He’s clearly thought about these things.

  162. Frank K says:

    “Believing death is the end is WHY it matters.”

    Hmmm … to me it would mean that everything I do is pointless. Dust to dust, ashes to ashes.

  163. Novaseeker says:

    Hmmm … to me it would mean that everything I do is pointless. Dust to dust, ashes to ashes.

    Right, but you can easily see how that approach lends itself to “eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die” — in other words, get it while the getting’s good, because tomorrow you may be pushing up daisies forever and ever amen. If you don’t think there’s consequences to anything you do, you may as well party on Garth! and have as much fun as you can, right? I mean I get the mentality if one has a secular/materialist view.

  164. Paul says:

    @Oscar On the contrary, it proves that God told people to eat meat. Was God wrong to tell people to eat meat?

    Not exactly. It proves that people were allowed to eat meat. It’s no longer an obligation however, whereas in the OT you participated in eating the meat of (some of) the offerings. Eating vegetarian seems a healthy choice, which aligns with the pre-fall design. Especially nowadays it’s not difficult to eat healthy. It’s the same with eating pork, of course it’s now allowed, but it’s not exactly healthy. Same for red meats, even more for processed meats. Poultry and fish seem to be the better options if you want to eat animals.

    Americans are world-wide known for their obesity, so paying some attention to your health is beneficial. Eating more plants and less meat is healthy.

    I expect that we will be eating vegetarian in the new heaven and new earth, as death will be no more, and the pre-fall condition will even be improved upon.

  165. Anonymous Reader says:

    Joe
    Ah… attraction. You can’t manufacture it. It’s either there from the get go or not.

    What’s your point? Is it just “I got mine”, or something more adult?

  166. Jacob says:

    I expect that we will be eating vegetarian in the new heaven and new earth, as death will be no more

    Ok, I’ll bite. If there’s no death, why eat at all?

    …and the pre-fall condition will even be improved upon.

    “God saw all that He had made, and it was very good.” (Gen 1:31a)

    What basis is there for your expectation that things will be better?

  167. Anonymous Reader says:

    Frank K
    I do not share the secular world’s obsession with lifespan extension.

    Huh. Ever had a tetanus vaccination?

  168. Otto says:

    It’s the same with eating pork, of course it’s now allowed, but it’s not exactly healthy. Same for red meats, even more for processed meats. Poultry and fish seem to be the better options if you want to eat animals.

    “Why We Get Fat” by Gary Taubes

    “Fat Head” the movie, not on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs

    The myth that animal fats are bad for us is just that–a myth.

  169. Frank K says:

    “Huh. Ever had a tetanus vaccination?”

    I did use the word “obsession”. One can try to live a healthy life without being obsessed about it.

  170. Frank K says:

    “Ok, I’ll bite. If there’s no death, why eat at all? ”

    Agreed. I seriously doubt that we will need to eat.

  171. Scott says:

    The paradigm as Joe describes it is painful and creates a nagging potential conundrum, especially for married men who become “red-pilled” later

    If such a man has been struggling to get enthusiastic, exiting, passionate sex from his wife, he has a couple of options.

    He can confront her and inquire to discern what her true feeling were/are— taking the risk of talking about fight club. Red-pill conventional wisdom says that this is relationship suicide and that it will permanently turn her off.

    He can try “game” which, by definition means not talking about it. If the self improvement regime does not result in a re-kindled fire, there is a risk of internal deconstruction, depression and despair.

    He can decide that neither of those strategies is worth it, and if he believes in life-long marriage just accept that he is married to a woman who was never really attracted to him in the first place. He will go to his death bed with his “beta thirst” never really satisfied.

    If, by some off chance his wife becomes convicted that she “owes” him more sweetness, more deference, more fun in the bedroom, he will always be nagged in the back of his mind-is this for real?

    Or maybe the chemistry and spark was there in the beginning, and has flattened out some later. He still faces the same conundrum but, depending on husband his wife’s commitment to the moral pursuit of romance, may come out the other side in a happier, more passionate marriage.

    There are worse fates. You could be in a concentration camp. You could have cancer. But it would suck to go through that gauntlet only to find she was never that into you.

  172. locustsplease says:

    @paul steroids and human growth horomome must b vegan. Im sorry but if you have ever been on a body builder forum they go into diets on extreme levels. Taking their bodies thru different cycles and small things make or break a cycle. A vegan diet is not going to win head to head we are omnivores. Things like genitically testing yourself and building diets off that matter. That guy has great genetics has done all the right things for years and is at the peak of his cut. People are vegetarians to show off for their liberal friends.

  173. Scott says:

    “Depending on his and”

  174. Gunner Q says:

    Frank K @ 4:44 pm:
    “Believing death is the end is WHY it matters.”

    “Hmmm … to me it would mean that everything I do is pointless. Dust to dust, ashes to ashes.”

    The atheists call that postmodernism, if you want to continue down that rabbit hole.

    @7817,
    “His commentary runs from 36:40 to 42:30 in the video, and it’s worth listening to even if you disagree. He’s clearly thought about these things.”

    I listened and Clarey’s views have remained consistent with his books. What Clarey claims to be MGTOW-style cowardice is refusal to even ask a woman out. “You’re just afraid of rejection! You can’t handle a real woman!” Never mind that his proverbial 16yo MGTOW surely has tried to get popular with girls and went MGTOW only after being burned. Or watching his friends get burned. Or watching what happened to his father. Men don’t naturally despise and avoid young women.

    Clarey can’t imagine living without female attention and approval–he’s an experienced dancer–so as men started announcing they’re quitting women without ever having been successful with women, he thinks them cowards because I’m happier without women around at all is that far outside his reality. He can’t believe we mean it.

    And then you Vox Day minions heard Clarey calling us cowards and you used his accusation for ammunition, without ever asking why he thought that of us in the first place. That was foolish because cowardice was never the right word for his objection.

    For the record, cowardice is when a man DOESN’T stand for what he wants… not when he DOES and the normies wonder what’s wrong with him.

  175. 7817 says:

    Words mean things:

    cowardice
    n. Ignoble fear in the face of danger or pain.
    n. Want of courage to face danger, difficulty, opposition, etc.; dread of exposure to harm or pain of any kind; fear of consequences; pusillanimity; dishonorable fear.

    Clarey is right.

  176. BillyS says:

    Paul, Duh to you. We have nothing that says Daniel forever ate only vegetables, only that he did so for that brief period.

  177. BillyS says:

    I generally agree Scott.

    Check out the book Why We Get Fat: And What to Do About It by Gary Taubes for some things to consider if you are so inclined.

  178. BillyS says:

    Frank,

    They want any little bit more extension of their existence. Much more important to get all you can if this is all you have.

  179. Oscar says:

    @ Paul

    I answered your questions directly. You – unsurprisingly – evaded mine. Please answer my questions directly.

    Do you think God made a mistake when He told people to eat meat after the flood?

    Do you live in a pre-fall world, or in a post-fall world?

  180. naturallyaspirated says:

    gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins.

    It shows an inability to regulate appetite. Appetite in the larger sense, our urges and drives and desires. Temperance is a sign of a disciplined soul, one who knows the proper use of things.

    How many of us lack temperance with food, with alcohol, with sex? These things are useful and life enhancing if used right, destructive if not.

  181. Red Pill Christianity says:

    @Paul says: I don’t know where you get that from, but it’s pure BS; a vegetarian diet contains all proteins and amino acids you need.

    Look at ANY poll or study on the subject. Vegetarians are unhappy, Beta, and cranky people.They are whiny too.

    DailyMail.co.uk/news/article-6347827/Vegetarians-miserable-enjoy-parties-meat-eaters-scientists-claim.html

    Search “vegetarians unhappy” and there are studies all over the world on the topic.

    Search “vegetarians are betas” for some laughs.

    Most protein and aminos you get from consuming meats are much better for body-building. Don’t believe me, then give it a try with all-soy proteins (the main vegetarian protein) and see what will happen to you. You will have boobs bigger than Pamela Anderson in less than a year.

    Why do you think the term “Soy Boy” has to do with “soy”?

    Go ahead… drink up. I will be having whey/casein milk blend and a steak. 😀

    The shredded guy in the photo you posted is on so much steroid, he will probably be dead by age 50. If he did that much steroid and exercise while eating a high protein meat/milk (whey/casein,, etc) based diet like Arnold, he would look like Arnold. Instead he is jacked but that is just that.

    Now, look at his nipple-size…. he is probably rocking the Winstrol like never before so he better kiss that liver goodbye even before age 50.

    Vegetarianism is a weakness. Real man eat meats. Real men hunt their food with a real weapon and eat it when he must. Only cucks eat pine bark and pine needles in the wild.

    Men are predatory hunters (meat eaters). Women are foragers (vegetarian). Alpha vs Beta. Aggressive vs passive.

    Ps. Bacon is proof that God is real and wants us to be happy.

  182. Red Pill Christianity says:

    @Gunner Q says What Clarey claims to be MGTOW-style cowardice is refusal to even ask a woman out. “You’re just afraid of rejection! You can’t handle a real woman!” Men don’t naturally despise and avoid young women. Clarey can’t imagine living without female attention and approval–he’s an experienced dancer–so as men started announcing they’re quitting women without ever having been successful with women, he thinks them cowards because I’m happier without women around at all is that far outside his reality. He can’t believe we mean it.

    Exactly, Gunny. Any hetero male who was once 16 years old cannot (repeat CANNOT) be a MGTOW “naturally”. It is not possible. You are desperate to be with women at that age. That is human nature at work, there is no escape.

    That is why so many young men are “romantic” and easy to fall in love with women who give them attention.

    Men start to become open to MGTOW philosophy after age 30. Why? Because the longer we live as men, the more realistic we become. Experience leaves a mark on us, while with women, experience teaches them nothing and simply makes them more bitter. By age 40, not only do testosterone levels begin to decrease, but also your cynicism increases as a man. Women becomes less and less of a priority, which is natural. MGTOW becomes more and more like an easy path.

    I am not a MGTOW and I am not 40 yet, but who knows in so many years? I will be running aggressive, un-apologetic Game as long as I am able to. Then we will see. I refuse to live without a woman in my life, save for few brakes in LTRs from time to time to focus on work project or travel.

    As for Aaron Cleary, he is also a semi-Black Piller when it comes to society to a degree. he has basically given up on “saving Western civilization” from feminists, Marxists, and idiots. He is just kinda living his life and having a good time and not worried about the future of our civ/country anymore.

    I also do no think he is an incel by any means. Neither is Aaron a quitter when it comes to women.

    No retreat, no surrender is a good way to live.

    As long as a man works to keep up his physical appearance (physique, skin, hair clothing, etc) and refuses to give up and learn some basic, red-pilled Game (social skills), he will be fine for years, probably into his early 50s.

    I worked with a guy who was 62 and he brought his 19-year old girlfriend to a work event!!! He was not rich, but he owned a really nice Harley and was Alpha and in good physical shape. He had a Devil-may-care attitude, never ever apologized for anything (which would sometimes rub people the wrong way, but he did not mean it as an insult or anything).

    I almost asked him if it was his daughter, but didn’t. LOL 😀 His thing with this girl did not last, but who cares? He gamed a 19 year old and she was at least a 7…. at age 62! Oh and fully grayed hair and gray handlebar mustache too. Just wild.

  183. feministhater says:

    Words mean things:

    cowardice
    n. Ignoble fear in the face of danger or pain.
    n. Want of courage to face danger, difficulty, opposition, etc.; dread of exposure to harm or pain of any kind; fear of consequences; pusillanimity; dishonorable fear.

    Clarey is right.

    Clarey is just a man. You are just a man. We are all just men. MGTOW isn’t for you, we get it. If MGTOW are cowards, it’s another boon for you, Clarey and soap selling Coops. You don’t need cowards in your mists. So we, once again, are saving you both the time and effort. Yet you continue to pour huge amounts of effort into trying to stop MGTOW.

    It’s hilarious. All your shaming means nothing. Calling us cowards means nothing. We don’t care what you think. You gents can proudly go and claim all the women yourselves. More tuna for you.

    You’re all unable to get it through your heads that we’re done. Finished.

    I spent over 10 years trying to get married. There came a point in time where what I would get didn’t satisfy my own risk/reward assessment, that was when I turned thirty. Now, with #metoo and other risks, it’s stupid and silly. You can continue to play with fire, others choose a different path. Get over it.

    Clarey is not Christian. I am. The only way for me to get a sexual benefit from women is to get married to one. Clarey is 100% against marriage but still wants sex. If Clarey is right, marriage is a bad bet and to be avoided, you cannot have your cake and eat it too, unless you’re a woman.

    Are you a woman?

  184. feministhater says:

    If women were allowed to cut off a man’s balls when that man asked them out on a date… would that be the tipping point for 7817 and others? Who knows, obviously only cowards would want to keep their balls attached..

    If you would then stop dating and marrying at that point.. obviously the only difference between you and MGTOWs is your willingness to accept a higher risk, lower reward system. There comes a point where the risk concern in continued chasing of women becomes unacceptably high and the potential reward if successful becomes dismally small.

    We have reached that point, perhaps you have not but it’s only a matter of time.

  185. TheTraveler says:

    It seems that every discussion on this blog deteriorates into a heated, vicious argument about MGTOW.

    Sad. Obsessive. And ridiculous.

  186. Novaseeker says:

    It seems that every discussion on this blog deteriorates into a heated, vicious argument about MGTOW.

    Sad. Obsessive. And ridiculous.

    That tends to happen when Ted’s minions aggressively hijack the comments from the VERY FIRST ONE, as we see in this thread. Either Dalrock will do something or he won’t, but right now his comment section is acting as an auxilliary of Ted’s.

  187. feministhater says:

    It seems that every discussion on this blog deteriorates into a heated, vicious argument about MGTOW.

    Sad. Obsessive. And ridiculous.

    Address your bitching to the very first comment on this post and to the jackass who decided to start it again. Stop letting MGTOWs live rent free inside your heads. Take your heads out of your anuses, realize that MGTOW have done nothing to anyone. Not to you, not to 7817, not vfm, not to Aaron Clarey, not to Chairman Vox, not to manure in cars, not to women, not to society, not to any fucking body. At the end of the fucking day, when all else is said and done, complained about fucking endlessly, MGTOW are 100% allowed to do what they are doing. Has it ever occurred to you lot that you could just stop bothering with MGTOW?

    You’re like business owners complaining that no one is buying your overpriced, useless shit that can be had for free elsewhere. Your business model is outdated and dying.

    Once again, when the traditional argument is brought up that no one is starting businesses or that no one is risking capital and assets on futile investments or due to over burdensome and expensive regulations, not one of you would dare, fucking dare blame the person who risks their assets and future for not playing a rigged fucking game and keeping their money on the side. But, oh no, some men decide that marriage and women are too risky, not worth our time, money and efforts.. then, only then do you decide to blame the one who assumes the risk for decided not to play the rigged game. The current risk vs reward with regards to marriage and women is just not worth it. If this little nugget of truth is alarming to you, deal with the problem, not the fucking symptom.

  188. Sven says:

    I dont think I’ve ever gone to a child for hope.

    Her speech reminds me of the first few minutes of this.

  189. Rory says:

    @feministhater

    Lmao at the nuclear cope displayed by MGTOWs in this like any other thread.

    Me, happily married and starting a family = CANNONFODDER FOR A WARPED WORLDVIEW (the kind of warped worldview that gave these bitter losers life in the first place I guess?)

    MGTOW, willfully forgoing procreation, porn addict, degenerate, literally the ideal man according to the liberal order they claim to hate, destined to die alone and useless = FREE THINKER, FORGING HIS OWN PATH!

    MGTOWs are the average Reddit user’s final form. You’ve only passed the point of “diminishing returns” if you’re so self-pitying that you concede that you’ll never attract a woman of any value (or else you think you’re too stupid to tell quality women from the others). Cue the standard MGTOW cope “Just wait til X’s wife divorces him, then he’ll learn!” Sorry dummies, it’s not gonna happen, and if you learned to be something other than a miserable loser with nothing to offer then you might easily be happily married one day too.

    They claim to be “going their own way” and yet, much like the empowered wymyn “who don’t need no man”, their eternal bitterness and asshurt when confronted with how stupid and self-defeating their ideology is betrays how it’s really working for them.

    I’m losing track of it all, husbands and fathers are cannon fodder, 100% of marriages end in divorce, only cuckservatives want people to have kids, swearing off women and watching porn instead is consistent with scripture (lol), working slave wages for cash and living in a camper is a “win” against feminism, the cope is off the charts. I genuinely couldn’t anticipate all the insanely stupid rationalizations MGTOWs would come up with.

  190. 7817 says:

    Either Dalrock will do something or he won’t, but right now his comment section is acting as an auxilliary of Ted’s.

    The video I linked has nothing to do with Vox Day. He’s not in it, and not discussed in it as far as I can recall. I can’t remember the last time I saw the word mgtow being used by Vox, it’s not been recent.

    In fact, the video shows this problem with mgtow’s demoralization efforts is being recognized in the other parts of the community also. It shows that this really has nothing to do with Vox, except that Vox was the first one to recognize the issue.

    What is said in the video by Rollo, Rich, Rian, Aaron, Jon and LFA is far more interesting than any obsession with Vox Day that folks here have, and I linked it after the conversation already went far off topic.

  191. vandicus says:

    What makes the anger at MGTOW so particularly amusing is that they represent only a very small portion of the strike. Even if every single MGTOW was to become a determined blue piller, it would still not overturn the general trend of men beginning to work like women. It would still not do anything about marriage rates or the decline of marriage.

    The supply of women who require working for and are worth working for is simply not high enough to sustain civilization. It is that simple.

  192. Scott says:

    Phil Hartman played Stockdale better than Stockdale

    https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/joyride-with-perot/n10313

  193. Novaseeker says:

    I linked it after the conversation already went far off topic.

    The very first comment in this thread is about MGTOW. VERY. FIRST. COMMENT. I know it wasn’t yours, but was from another of the “ilk” herd of Ted’s minions.

    Every fucking thread gets derailed by you fucking assholes. Fuck you. FUCK YOU!!!

  194. Kaminsky says:

    “You’re like business owners complaining that no one is buying your overpriced, useless shit that can be had for free elsewhere. Your business model is outdated and dying.”

    Game. Set. Match.

  195. kaminsky says:

    “The supply of women who require working for and are worth working for is simply not high enough to sustain civilization. It is that simple.”

    Exactly. Where is the incentive given; the likeliness of divorce, EPL, family court misandry, obesity (both now and future obesity), overall cultural misandry, laughable sexual access in most marriages, overburden of males and on and on. There’s nothing there. Kids? Okay, maybe, but you’re 80% likely to lose them and have your own daughter sleeping down the hall from your ex’s future degenerate boyfriend.

    How bad does it have to get? Tradcons willfully ignore so much. Too bad for them.

    Hey Rory, check back in with us in about 5 years. Your current 7 will post-partum eat her way down to being a 4. She’s about 80% likely to kidnap your children and score a paycheck (from you) for simply being a woman too. Good luck. You dope. And even if she remains as a 7 then I hope you can keep constantly requalifying yourself for her approval. What a subordinate life. Willfully subordinate. You just jump at that submissive role. That’s legal fact. You and your unicorn might play act otherwise but it’s just role play. Modern marriage is male submission. Legal fact.

  196. 7817 says:

    Every fucking thread gets derailed by you fucking assholes. Fuck you. FUCK YOU!!!

    Now hold on a minute there champ. Look at all the different things that have been discussed in this thread. Global warming, vegetarianism (heh), attempted genocides around the world, and you are triggered because someone also had criticism of mgtow? The mgtows can’t handle criticism, but they are not immune from it.

    If Dalrock chooses to make his blog free of criticism of mgtow, he is perfectly capable of doing that. Until then, if the thread goes predictably off topic, there’s no reason that mgtows are beyond the same criticism anyone else is subject to. They are not sacred cows, are they?

  197. Scott says:

    I do kind of get the sense that the anti-MGTOW crowd is like the guy with a hammer and to whom everything looks like a nail

    Greta Thunberg is a child being manipulated by the atheist left! MGTOWs fault

    I have a rock in my shoe! MGTOWs fault

    I can’t believe how much gas prices have gone up! MGTOWs fault

    Over and over we re-hash the definition of MGTOW, what it means, etc

    But it doesn’t really bother me. If there is a part of the division that is boring me I find something else to do and come back to the next post

  198. Anonymous Reader says:

    Back on the old Spearhead, Anonymous Age 60-something[1] would comment about his experience in the late 1980’s running a group for divorced men. He observed that regularly a newly divorced man would show up and from his first meeting start in with “Yer doin’ it all wrong!”. That’s a common, perhaps near universal, tendency among men.

    “This is how I do it, yer doin’ it all wrong” can have validity from the mouth of a master craftsman. A man with some skin in the game, who has built up a skill, and can demonstrate on demand. Men who want to be masters, but who have not put in the time, can be tempted to act as if they are. Then there’s the issues that can’t really be resolved, because there may be more than one answer or solution.

    We see that all the time here.
    “Yer a Protestant / Catholic / Orthodox? Yer doin’ it all wrong!” is enough to spark over 100 comments, usually way off topic.

    These “If yer not doin’ it my way yer doin’ it wrong” bloviations generally don’t have any action item(s) that might be useful to a man. Because religious belief has a very large emotional content, it’s no surprise that no conversions happen online. Nobody wakes up in Christian denomination X, reads an online tirade by someone from denomination Y and says “Oh gosh! I’ve been Doing It All Wrong, I shall immediately switch to Y!” it does not happen.

    Now we have a small collection of commenters from VD’s blog who have brought their Supreme Dark Lord’s hyper-emotionalism about MGT@W with them. The only action item they offer is “Man UP and marry that slut!”, just like some 70 year old aging Boomer pastor. The only interaction they offer is ‘ManUP you coward who should die in a hole, manUP and do it like me” where “me” actually means their Supreme Dark Lord. Because followers of VD apparently often desire to be VD’s “mini-me”.

    Anonymous Aged 60+ noted that sometimes he had to invite the “yer doin’ it all wrong” men to leave. Because the other men had work to do, they weren’t there to be lectured to by someone who had just been divorced, either. The Manosphere as a clearing house for ideas and as a means for hurting men to get help still has validity. But screeds of the “Yer doin’ it all wrong!” variety rarely produce anything useful.

    Like Scott, I scroll. Lately I scroll quite a lot. Some threads are almost totally useless, because so many churchgoing men cannot admit that some other man could be “doin’ it right” for his situation, at this time. In my opinion it is a mark of insecurity to insist that every other man ought to be “doin’ it like me” in situs such as “inter sexual dynamics”.

    Plus…if a man is going to insist that everyone else is “doin’ it wrong” then he needs to be able to not only demonstrate the right way on demand, every time but he needs to be able to provide a breakdown of exactly what “doin’ it right” looks like. IF he can’t do those things, he’s fake. As fake as the gunstore super-jager who claims a 400 yard shot on running deer — but who will not take his rifle to the range and demonstrate that snap shot on a stationary target, because “too busy” or some such foolishness. “Put up or shut up”, in short Provide action item that works, or remain silent.

    Here endeth the lesson. I hope it is not too subtle for some readers.

    [1] I need to email Gunnerq and get that new URL.

  199. Oscar says:

    Back on the subject of animal products:

    I put together a chart of national, yearly per capita meat and dairy consumption vs national average BMI for the 107 countries for which I found data. Guess what? There is no correlation between the two. In fact, the two don’t even remotely correlate.

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/8HyqPvc7wXQ1RmVr9

  200. Anonymous Reader says:

    7817
    Now hold on a minute there champ.

    If you’ve really read this site for 3 years you know who Novaseeker is, and you know how generally patient he is. Therefore it should give you pause when he becomes angry enough to throw F-bombs.

    Look at all the different things that have been discussed in this thread. Global warming,

    The topic is Greta Thunberg and the AGW hoax. Topic drift is normal. What is not normal?

    The very first comment out of the box is a deliberate attempt to troll MGTOW. If you are honest, you know this to be true, because you can test it by scrolling back up to the top of the comment thread.

    Your objections are thin. Your fascination is boring.

  201. 7817 says:

    Scott, it’s because of stuff like this:

    Hey Rory, check back in with us in about 5 years. Your current 7 will post-partum eat her way down to being a 4. She’s about 80% likely to kidnap your children and score a paycheck (from you) for simply being a woman too. Good luck. You dope. And even if she remains as a 7 then I hope you can keep constantly requalifying yourself for her approval. What a subordinate life. Willfully subordinate. You just jump at that submissive role. That’s legal fact. You and your unicorn might play act otherwise but it’s just role play. Modern marriage is male submission. Legal fact.

    This demoralization effort isn’t limited to Dalrock’s comment section, which is why the Rule Zero crowd addressed it.

    If it’s ok for this mgtow to throw discouragement at a guy starting a family, it’s ok for the mgtows also to be criticised.

    This demoralization, the throw our hands in the air and give up group has many facts correct. Their solution of telling the world repeatedly that they won’t participate undermines the actual discussion of the facts and what a real solution looks like. When the people screeching the most loudly about an actual problem are the ones that wouldn’t know what to do with a solution anyway, it weakens the whole movement.

    The men’s sphere came about because of real problems that needed to be addressed. I care about that, which is why despair can’t be allowed to win.

  202. Otto says:

    @Paul,

    Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?

    The points you are making sound like Seventh Day Adventist talking points.

    The Seventh Day Adventists promote a vegetarian diet. In fact, they have one of the primary promoters of vegetarianism (both organizationally and monetarily) in America since the 1800s.

    This quote from their website (https://www.adventist.org/en/vitality/health/):

    “Exercise and avoidance of harmful substances such as tobacco, alcohol and mind-altering substances lead to clear minds and wise choices. A well-balanced vegetarian diet that avoids the consumption of meat coupled with intake of legumes, whole grains, nuts, fruits and vegetables, along with a source of vitamin B12, will promote vigorous health.”

    This from the Smithsonian on the origin of vegetarianism in America titled “American Vegetarianism Has a Religious Past” (highlights the Seventh Day Adventist connection).

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/american-vegetarianism-had-religious-upbringing-180956346/

  203. Kaminsky says:

    “If it’s ok for this mgtow to throw discouragement at a guy starting a family, it’s ok for the mgtows also to be criticised.”

    Hilarious lack of awareness. Reverse the clauses in your sentence and you’re spot on.

  204. feministhater says:

    The mgtows can’t handle criticism, but they are not immune from it.

    None of what you or others have done here has actually been criticism. You have openly derided, shamed, mocked and ridiculed others. Your real, actual criticisms of MGTOWs have been countered and thus you and your friends resort to shaming.

    You tried to co op this blog for your benefit. You have zero track record here, no one gives a fuck what you think and thus your attempt and that of others, failed.

    Accepting criticism is one thing but when that criticism is provably false, we’ll laugh and tell you to fuck off.

    Vox Day and his minions are not wanted here. Go back to your blog, leave us alone and go do glorious things, have many children and save humanity. Why do you incessantly waste your time when you, according to your own beliefs, have vastly more important things to be doing?

    If Dalrock chooses to make his blog free of criticism of mgtow, he is perfectly capable of doing that. Until then, if the thread goes predictably off topic, there’s no reason that mgtows are beyond the same criticism anyone else is subject to. They are not sacred cows, are they?

    Predictable. Take a blog post about a sixteen year old girl screeching at the UN about climate change; from the very first comment vilify MGTOW and tell them to shut up and die, and then bemoan the fact that others get pissed off. It wasn’t you but you sure do like to jump on the bandwagon and take cheap shots. Posting videos with pseudo-intellectuals all trying to out do the other in their awesomeness by nitpicking MGTOWs is hardly convincing. Bitch Cooper’s argument was nothing other than ‘don’t be a quitter, don’t be a quitter’ on and on without a shred of decent advice being offered to counter the MGTOW choice.

    You do not criticize, you mock and shame. If you had real, actionable steps that truly worked without charging an arm and a leg for it, men would simply listen. They would take what worked and change their lives. If your advice doesn’t work for the average man, there isn’t much more to add. It is useless for the purposes of saving marriage and Western Civilisation.

    The risk of failure is too great for the slim chance of reward. This is not some small business risk but instead the entire man’s life.

    Sometimes, just sometimes it is in the best interests of the person to quit whilst ahead instead of taking on a risk that is too great. To acknowledge this isn’t cowardice. To assess a situation and decide upon a different course of action when the previous actions have failed is prudent and wise.

  205. Gunner Q says:

    [1] I need to email Gunnerq and get that new URL.

    gunnerq protonmail com

  206. Oscar says:

    I strongly disagree with discouraging a young, new husband. I also strongly disagree with the “man up and marry those sluts” / “don’t look for a good one, make a good one” / “women are responders” BS.

    We need to acknowledge the risks inherent in modern-day marriage. If a young man decides the risk isn’t worth the potential reward, I can’t say that I blame him. And I say that as a married father of nine.

    If, on the other hand, a young man wants to marry, then the right thing to do is to help him mitigate the risk. Mitigating risk begins with accurately assessing the risk.

    Despair is destructive, but I’d argue that telling young men to get married without teaching them how to vet a potential wife, and mitigate risk, is even more destructive.

  207. scarletlagomorph says:

    @7817

    This demoralization, the throw our hands in the air and give up group has many facts correct. Their solution of telling the world repeatedly that they won’t participate undermines the actual discussion of the facts and what a real solution looks like. When the people screeching the most loudly about an actual problem are the ones that wouldn’t know what to do with a solution anyway, it weakens the whole movement.

    The men’s sphere came about because of real problems that needed to be addressed. I care about that, which is why despair can’t be allowed to win.

    Recognition of probabilities isn’t despair, nor is wanting to protect a generation of men that has seen its grandfathers, fathers, uncles, brothers, and best friends put through the absolute fucking ringer for no other reason that because of innate evolutionary biology/psychology and a crooked gynaecocentric system. The reason that tradcon types like you never wise up, and consequently damn men that won’t throw themselves on the ramparts, is that you think that, despite the fact that marriage is a legal arrangement with an eminently suggestible and mercurial person that has ‘free will’, what happens is anything other than a total crap shoot. And your reason for this at the end of the day is that you think your sky wizard can actually change the nature of people, a nature that, if you believe in him, exists because he put it there.

    You’re free to poke fun at me, call me a basement dweller, a final-form Redditor, or whatever other epithets that charming little fuck Rory concocted earlier, however I’m never going away except by force. I’ll never stop trying to set men free, nor will I call countenance any species of slavery, whether of body or mind, to be called freedom whilst I have breath to shout it down.

  208. Ranger says:

    Frodo Baggins was a life-long bachelor. Still, it’s a good thing he was not an HGTOW or he would have reasoned “the odds of me surviving my trip to Mordor are horribly low. Fuck that, I ain’t giving up my comfortable hobbit-hole for that, I’m throwing the Ring down the River”

    That said, I do agree it is very annoying to have every comment thread degenerate into this horribly boring subject of “MGTOWs suck!” “No they don’t you boomer tradcon”, like this one, or, alternatively “and this is why I’m an MGTOW, this sick society ain’t worth saving” “get out of here with your demoralization campaign, you feckless coward”

  209. feministhater says:

    This demoralization, the throw our hands in the air and give up group has many facts correct. Their solution of telling the world repeatedly that they won’t participate undermines the actual discussion of the facts and what a real solution looks like. When the people screeching the most loudly about an actual problem are the ones that wouldn’t know what to do with a solution anyway, it weakens the whole movement.

    Oh, so MGTOWs are stopping the awesomeness of yourselves from coming up with the solution, got it. If only it wasn’t those darn meddling MGTOW, the problem would have been solved by the geniuses of the red man group and vox day.

    You guys are actually truly pathetic. As I said before in another thread. If all it takes is us MGTOWs writing and talking to others to completely undermine your efforts, the problem is definitely, 100% with you.

    Cause to tell you the truth chaps. If all it takes is comments from us losers to distract you from solving this problem…. you have far graver ills to worry about.

    MGTOW is but a small pocket of men. They don’t do TV shows, they do not go to the government for help, they don’t get paid gigs, they don’t go to the UN and bitch, they don’t do anything that actually counts as ‘screeching’ besides commenting on forums, blogs and video sites like youtube and bitchute.

  210. scarletlagomorph says:

    @Ranger

    Frodo Baggins was a life-long bachelor. Still, it’s a good thing he was not an HGTOW or he would have reasoned “the odds of me surviving my trip to Mordor are horribly low. Fuck that, I ain’t giving up my comfortable hobbit-hole for that, I’m throwing the Ring down the River”

    A good thing for whom, precisely? For the world around him that got an undeserved third chance, or for him, that suffered terribly during his ordeal and whose wound from the Witch-King of Angmar pained him so that he willingly left behind all he’d ever known of home and travel to the Undying Lands? That’s the trouble with fairy tales. That sort of self-martyrdom reaps great rewards. We live in the real fucking world where the evil prosper and the best the good can look forward to is momentary happiness. And the afterlife, if you believe in that sort of thing.

  211. Ranger says:

    I believe that most of the issue between vocal MGTOWs and their opponents is a fundamentally different understanding of whether it is possible for a small but dedicated minority to effect meaningful change in a large scale.

    Vocal MGTOWs are firmly in the camp of “it is not possible for a few people to make a difference”, while their opponents, specially if they are Christian, like to use the phrase “all it takes is 12”.

    That’s why MGTOWs say “we are so few, what harm is there if we make anti-marriage and anti-family arguments?” , and why their opponents retort “your demoralization campaign is aimed DIRECTLY at precisely the men we need to change this situation, the already red-pilled men, no matter how few they are”.

    What I am trying to say here is that the difference is more in the reason than in the will.

  212. 7817 says:

    And your reason for this at the end of the day is that you think your sky wizard can actually change the nature of people, a nature that, if you believe in him, exists because he put it there.

    Here’s your mgtow allies. A group that allows this to run rampant is going to have trouble reaching worthwhile goals.

  213. Jim says:

    If you would then stop dating and marrying at that point.. obviously the only difference between you and MGTOWs is your willingness to accept a higher risk, lower reward system
    To some people, very high-risk, very low reward gambling is logical. Go figure?

    Oh, so MGTOWs are stopping the awesomeness of yourselves from coming up with the solution, got it. If only it wasn’t those darn meddling MGTOW, the problem would have been solved by the geniuses of the red man group and vox day.

    Gotta love those magical powers we have, lol.

    MGTOW is but a small pocket of men. They don’t do TV shows, they do not go to the government for help, they don’t get paid gigs, they don’t go to the UN and bitch, they don’t do anything that actually counts as ‘screeching’ besides commenting on forums, blogs and video sites like youtube and bitchute.

    Yup. I can’t tell you how many times we’ve saved men from suicide and helped them get their lives back together after a cunt and her real husband The State destroyed him.

    Someone mentioned pornography earlier and would agree it’s degenerate (bot something God would approve of anyway). It’s like eating candy. Bad for the soul. I also don’t drink, smoke and have never taken drugs. Since my teenage years I never understood why anyone would put that shit in their system. It makes no sense at all. I got Ted beaten on all those fronts, who has admitted he used to be a degenerate in the past. Also, do these tradcons realize how many married men look like and eat like shit? lol. They’re too lazy to even get their fat asses in the gym.

    A lot of what these VD trolls are doing is just projection. The shame business is often times hilarious shit. “Despair” (false). “Black pilling” (false). They think if they the continue to lie and just repeat it enough it becomes true. Reminds me so much of these nutcase SJWs.

    You guys are so desperate to get rid of MGTOW it’s hilarious. I don’t even think I see this much desperation from feminist cunts about it. lol. Tell you what though. You guys want to see it disappear? There’s a way to do it. Here’s how: Drop your gynocentrism and destroy the family courts. Put the cunts back in their place by legal force and you’ll see it vanish overnight. Yup, that’s all you have to do. But you people put ZERO effort into that. Instead, like cowards too afraid to tell the cunts no, you lazily just think mock and ridicule them men who keep having to pay way too high of a price for signing a contract for a rigged game. Doesn’t work that way pal.

    Anyway……

    As far as Greta goes it’s no surprise at all watching the Left use children as political props and human shields. They’ve done it before and they’ll do it again. These nutcases are political fanatics who operate with the fervor of a religious cult member.

    BTW, I’m sure you guys have noticed how useless her input is without a script. Very transparent if you ask me. They only people who are going to believe this shit coming from a naive, mentally-ill teenage girl are those who want to believe it. Remember, these are the same evil maggots who want to promote pedophilia, so they’re not going to have any qualms about using kids and teens as political weapons or props.

  214. Oscar says:

    Off topic: In San Francisco, $1,200/month rents you a bunk bed.

    That might make relationships a bit awkward.

  215. Novaseeker says:

    Off topic: In San Francisco, $1,200/month rents you a bunk bed.

    Basically it’s dorm living for adults. 1,200 is dirt cheap for SF though. A quick glance at apartments.com shows that 1BR apartments in SF (itself, not the distant burbclaves) are starting around 3200/mo.

  216. scarletlagomorph says:

    @7817

    Here’s your mgtow allies.

    I have no quarrel with MGTOWs that happen to be religious. If they find meaning in it, that’s them going their own way and I celebrate that freedom for them even if I don’t agree. The difference is that most religious MGTOW that I’ve ever encountered follow the old adage of praying like everything depends on God and acting like everything depends on oneself. They have no expectation that the religion which has so consistently and spectacularly failed to reign in the excesses, or unfettered instinct, of human nature is going to change things or somehow shield them from what’s going on. They’ve seen too much hypocrisy to ever choke down that lie again.

    A group that allows this to run rampant is going to have trouble reaching worthwhile goals.

    I leave you to decide precisely where you can shove that sort of pearl-clutching. I’m one man amongst a sea of believers of whatever stripe. I know that they don’t agree with me on the topic of religion just like I don’t agree with them. What unites us is we want men safe to choose what’s important to them being browbeaten into thinking that giving some sober reflection as to whether a wife and a family is really the safest or best use of their time or station in life is somehow ‘giving into despair’.

  217. Otto says:

    “Off topic: In San Francisco, $1,200/month rents you a bunk bed.”

    Makes a van or small motor home look cheap by comparison.

    At least a van offers some privacy.

  218. Ranger says:

    Looks like vocal MGTOWs read Lord of the Rings and conclude Frodo was a chump.

    Seems I was wrong about the difference being in the reason and not the will.

  219. white says:

    This thread is an ominous reminder that in the future say 20 years from now there is a very high chance both feminists and anti-mgtow “redpillers” will see to it that mgtows be lined up against a wall and shot.

    Perhaps mgtows should marry other men now to best protect themselves from divorce-rape and the inevitable wrath of the future.

    I seriously doubt Dalrock’s comment policy now tbh. If he truly wants to avoid derailing a thread there is no reason he wouldn’t act after this thread, where the first comment is already a blatant derail.

  220. scarletlagomorph says:

    @white

    This thread is an ominous reminder that in the future say 20 years from now there is a very high chance both feminists and anti-mgtow “redpillers” will see to it that mgtows be lined up against a wall and shot.

    If they’re smart enough to read the situation and make the logical choice, they’re more than intelligent enough to blend into the crowd when society becomes overtly, even murderously, misandrist. Right now, it’s all about maximising the number of men that make it out unscathed. Last one out turns off the lights, brothers.

  221. 7817 says:

    @Ranger

    Looks like vocal MGTOWs read Lord of the Rings and conclude Frodo was a chump.

    Seems I was wrong about the difference being in the reason and not the will.

    I laughed, this kind of stuff has to be seen to be believed. “Frodo is a chump. He should have went his own way.”

  222. Anonymous Reader says:

    7817
    Scott, it’s because of stuff like this:

    Hey Rory, check back in with us in about 5 years.

    Possibly a man in the process of unplugging. I used to see comments like that on Spearhead from time to time. Since you claim to have read here for years, 3 if I recall correctly, you have seen it before and in fact you have seen at least one man move from despair to anger to a desire for competence. Sometimes it takes a tough hide to read in the ‘sphere, as you should know if you’ve really been on this site for 3 years.

    Part of the androsphere involves hearing out men in the anger / despair phase. Some men get stuck there. Most do not. A bit of understanding and calm interaction wth those men goes a long way to help them out. Ask me how I know this.

    You say with words that you want to help other men , with other words you condemn them.

    Nagging by women doesn’t work. Your nagging isn’t working. Suggest you stop nagging like a woman.

    Or you and the other VD cult members could start your own WordPress site, something gentle, meek, caring, and Christian like “ALL MGTOW SHOULD DIE IN A FIRE TODAY” and have a grand old time flaming other men there, instead of trolling them into here. Just a thought.

  223. Jim says:

    This thread is an ominous reminder that in the future say 20 years from now there is a very high chance both feminists and anti-mgtow “redpillers” will see to it that mgtows be lined up against a wall and shot.

    Could be. It won’t save their crumbling nations though, lol. They want their white babies but won’t do the few things they need to ensure it. They’re too scared of women to do it. Which really just shows that they’re more concerned about feeding their own egos than actually fixing the problem. Too bad for them. Hungary’s “give women more free shit” isn’t really working to give them the white babies they want. Their fertility rate is still FAR below replacement level. I think it’s still around 1.5.

    They sure do love lying to others and even themselves though about this kind of stuff. Maybe one day they’ll push Satan away from their ears and start listening to God instead. If they don’t, they can shoot all the MGTOWS they want and they will still parish. Funny stuff.

  224. Sharrukin2 says:

    Ranger says:

    October 1, 2019 at 2:20 pm

    Looks like vocal MGTOWs read Lord of the Rings and conclude Frodo was a chump.
    ————————-

    If he and Sam did the entire journey and suffered that crap because Rosie wanted a special ring from Mordor as an engagement present…then yeah he would be.

    Which is basically the level of stupid you are suggesting men must do or be branded as cowards.

  225. Anonymous Reader says:

    Ranger
    That said, I do agree it is very annoying to have every comment thread degenerate into this horribly boring subject of “MGTOWs suck!”

    This site got along for nearly 10 years without that. Instead a lot of comment threads devolved to religious controversies. It is tiresome, I agree. It would be good if certain people could control their desire to troll others.

  226. Anonymous Reader says:

    7817
    A group that allows this to run rampant is going to have trouble reaching worthwhile goals.</i

    As you know from reading here for 3 years, Dalrock takes a very light approach to moderation. Therefore it's not so much "run rampant" as "benign neglect.

    Of course, there have been a few passive-aggressive types who persistently trolled for flames, eventually they got banned. You do remember that, from reading here in the last 3 years, right?

  227. Nick M says:

    Yes Cloudbuster!

    Red Pill Christian: The DJ has more Sexual Market Value than her.

    She’ll leave him only because he is a player/not husband material. She’ll regret that decisions in the next 2 to 5 years.

    https://nypost.com/2019/09/27/why-is-a-good-man-so-hard-to-find-blame-the-war-on-boys-and-men/

  228. 7817 says:

    AR:

    A few weeks ago I experimented with using serious rhetoric on the worst despair mongers. It may have eventually helped some of them come to a point of decision, but it was going to be to ugly for a public forum, so I backed off. In fact, I even told Dalrock at the time that I didn’t plan to continue that strategy.

    This place is worth saving, but as you can see, the other side is not self moderating. There have been 40+ mgtow comments in response to VFM’s original comment, and then the video I linked. These comments are continually abusive, wishing men to abandon women, abandon hope, or just hurling epithets.

    I don’t particularly care which choice Dalrock makes, or if he leaves things alone that’s fine too, but there has to be some pushback against the mgtows if things remain the way they are, or all of the valuable commenters with productive insight will abandon this place. No one healthy wants to hear that the only solution for these problems is to embrace impotence.

  229. Ranger says:

    @Sharkey2

    He did it to save the country and people he loved. He did it knowing his chances of success were slim to none. Despite succeeding (if you can call it that), he got terribly wounded for it. What a sucker!

  230. thedeti says:

    @ Rory

    Cue the standard MGTOW cope “Just wait til X’s wife divorces him, then he’ll learn!” Sorry dummies, it’s not gonna happen [to me]

    All men say that. No man enters marriage thinking his wife will cheat on him or divorce him. Every man thinks his betrothed or his wife is different. If you think your marriage will make it on the strength of your and her character alone, think again. You’ll need to improve yourself and continue doing that for the entire life of the marriage. You can’t ever let up until the day you die. When your marriage falls on hard times (as it will, they all do, every single one of them do), you had best hope your wife has some modicum of character to stick with you through it, because I can tell you, every societal apparatus you can think of is arrayed against you and will be egging your wife on to leave and divorce you because “she can do better, he’s worthless and washed up, he’s just a man”.

  231. Novaseeker says:

    There have been 40+ mgtow comments in response to VFM’s original comment

    IN RESPONSE TO, yes. You guys come here and write your stuff and of course they are going to come and talk back. What do you expect them to do?? You do NOT have clean hands here AT ALL. Your SIDE is just as much the antagonist as the MGTOWs are. When one of you starts off a comment thread on a post that isn’t remotely related to MGTOW with a clear flame/troll designed to bait MGTOWs you have no high ground whatsoever, no clean hands, no good faith — you’re inciting clogging up the threads here and are a nuisance.

    Waging a combox proxy war across multiple blogs with your chosen “other” in order to serve Ted’s priorities is frankly pathetic in itself, but I don’t care much about blogs I don’t read. Here, though, you are a public nuisance, full stop. You’re flaming and trolling and baiting, and you (collective, not only you, but vfm and others as well) are clogging up this thread deliberately to wage your war.

    Obviously it’s up to Dalrock to decide how to proceed — it’s his place. But if he continues to allow his combox to be used this way it would be well beyond disappointing.

  232. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Bringing the topic back to Greta … Church of Sweden proclaimed Greta Thunberg ‘successor’ to Jesus Christ

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/church-of-sweden-proclaims-greta-thunberg-successor-to-jesus-christ-in-resurfaced-tweet

    The Church of Sweden declared teen star climate activist Greta Thunberg to be an appointed successor to Jesus Christ in a 2018 tweet that resurfaced in the wake of her speech before the United Nations.

    “Announcement! Jesus of Nazareth has now appointed one of his successors, Greta Thunberg,” the tweet said on Dec. 1, 2018. The account, operated by the Limhamns Church, had previously tweeted several sentiments of climate activism. …

  233. Sharrukin2 says:

    Ranger says

    @Sharkey2

    He did it to save the country and people 
    ‐——————————

    And you want men to do it to save a hoe.

    Not really the same thing.

  234. 7817 says:

    Nova, this is not about Vox Day. I know you would like it to be, but it’s not. I’m not a VFM, I have a 4 digit handle but I merely enjoy Vox’s commentary.

    you have no high ground whatsoever, no clean hands, no good faith — you’re inciting clogging up the threads here and are a nuisance.

    Waging a combox proxy war across multiple blogs with your chosen “other” in order to serve Ted’s priorities is frankly pathetic in itself

    As I said, this isn’t about Vox. But here’s the thing, no one who calls someone by their real name instead of their pen name is acting in good faith either.

    The video I linked proves, by itself, that this has nothing to do with Vox. MGTOWS are destroying as much of the men’s sphere as they are allowed to inhabit, and the men in the video are taking a hard line as a result.

    Remember the Game discussions? Remember married Game, and trying to discover the nuances and how to make things work in your own life? Remember unplugging, realizing the church was wrong about women? Do you remember coming to terms with the faith, realizing that the Bible was true though the church was wrong about women? Remember swapping notes with other men, and the value in those discussions, and the useful insights on how to make these discoveries useful in your own life?

    We used to have this kind of healthy community. Yes, absolutely part of it is negative; unplugging is painful. But it is triage, some men aren’t saveable, but unfortunately those are the ones who have stayed around blackpilling.

    We need a healthy community. MGTOWS have their place, somewhere, but we don’t know where it is because it’s somewhere in those men’s own way.

  235. Frank K says:

    Church of Sweden proclaimed Greta Thunberg ‘successor’ to Jesus Christ

    Not surprising, as the Church of Sweden has been pozzed and dildo’d for a long time. This should put to bed any doubt that it is apostate.

  236. Ranger says:

    @Sharkey2

    You lie almost as much as your namesake, but not as well.

  237. Frank K says:

    After some backlash in December when the tweet was published, the church posted a second tweet that suggested “success” could be interpreted in more than one way. Shortly after, the entire account was abandoned, with a sign-off message that defended the original celebration of Thunberg and suggested everyone has a right to interpret Jesus in their own way.

    Somewhere, Martin Luther has to be weeping.

  238. Paul says:

    @Jacob

    Ok, I’ll bite. If there’s no death, why eat at all?

    Some texts come to mind, showing we will be eating and drinking in heaven.

    Mt 26 “I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

    So we’ll be drinking wine in heaven with Jesus, fantastic!

    Rev 22 “On either side of the river stood a tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit and yielding a fresh crop for each month.”

    Where there’s crop, there’s eating.

    What basis is there for your expectation that things will be better?

    1 Co 2 “However, as it is written: “What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived” — the things God has prepared for those who love him–”

    1 Co 15 “So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.”

    The best is yet to come for those who persevere in Christ!

  239. Minesweeper says:

    Lets try this :

    Just heard Greta referred to as Scoldilocks and cannot stop laughing. 😂— YallQaeda (@jkrwld) September 30, 2019

    https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

    Still makes me laugh and I wanted to attribute to the source.

  240. Minesweeper says:

    2nd shot :

  241. Paul says:

    @Oscar I answered your questions directly. You – unsurprisingly – evaded mine. Please answer my questions directly.

    I don’t like your insinuation of me being dishonest. I think it was clear from my post how I responded to your questions, but let me spell it out for you.

    Do you think God made a mistake when He told people to eat meat after the flood?
    No

    Do you live in a pre-fall world, or in a post-fall world?
    Post-fall

    Happy?

  242. Paul says:

    @RPL Vegetarians are unhappy, Beta, and cranky people.They are whiny too.

    You’re the one sounding unhappy, cranky, and whiny.

  243. Paul says:

    @Otto Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?
    No. But they live longer than most people.

  244. Minesweeper says:

    So do we seem to have some “Christians” here who are following atheists ? And swamping this blog with the atheists rhetoric ?

    Why don’t they just go full antifa ? Or maybe this is what it looks like.

  245. Paul says:

    @BillyS Paul, Duh to you. We have nothing that says Daniel forever ate only vegetables, only that he did so for that brief period.

    First, the text strongly indicates he ate vegetables the rest of his live, as he continued to live on the court. Mind you, it was upon his own request to only eat vegetables. Nothing indicates the circumstances in the court changed.

    Second, even if Daniel later ate meat, that still made him a vegetarian during that period.

  246. Paul says:

    As for our diet in heaven, as I stated, I think it will be vegetarian. Look for instance at the famous Isaiah text

    The wolf will live with the lamb,
    the leopard will lie down with the goat,
    the calf and the lion and the yearling together;
    and a little child will lead them.
    The cow will feed with the bear,
    their young will lie down together,
    and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
    The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
    and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
    They will neither harm nor destroy
    on all my holy mountain,

    “Neither harm nor destroy on God’s holy mountain” seems to indicate even animals will no longer kill each other for food. And it’s known for a fact that some animals that “look” omnivorous or even carnivorous, can easily live on vegetarian diets. But probably God will recreate new type of plants for nutrition, probably similar to the pre-flood world where people lived for hundreds of years, to great longevity on vegetarian diets. (That was post-fall, Oscar)

  247. thedeti says:

    >diet in heaven,

    Dude, we’re gonna have glorified bodies. Nobody needs food in heaven. Or water, or air, or sleep. You never get tired, you don’t hurt, there’s no disease. Nothing ever goes wrong with your glorified body, it never wears out, and it never needs rejuvenation or nourishment. There is no concept of time. There is no yesterday or today, or now or future. There is no time. There is no beginning or end. We can’t even conceive of it.

  248. Minesweeper says:

    Ranger,

    Should be proud of himself, apparently he has done something as worthy as going on a dangerous trek (with a friend) to save the world from unrelenting allcompasing evil by throwing a magic ring into a volcano (that only he could carry without it affecting him).

    So we have followers of atheists and also fantasists.

    Whats next ?

    How about biblical marriage ? Where a wife respects AND submits to her husband.

    That will set the cat amongst the pigeons.

  249. Anonymous Reader says:

    7817
    A few weeks ago I experimented with using serious rhetoric on the worst despair mongers. It may have eventually helped some of them come to a point of decision, but it was going to be to ugly for a public forum, so I backed off.

    You troll for flames, then profess surprise when receiving flames?

    As coals are to burning coals, and wood to fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife.
    Proverbs 26:21

  250. Anonymous Reader says:

    7817
    there has to be some pushback against the mgtows if things remain the way they are, or all of the valuable commenters with productive insight will abandon this place.

    Irony. There was no big problem with MGT@WS until the trolls from VD showed up. You brought more MGT@W here in one week than I’d seen in nearly 10 years.

    7817, you and your Ilk all are like vandals who walk through a neighborhood throwing rocks through people’s windows, who then start complaining about all the broken glass on the street.

    Seriously suggest y’all start your own blog.

  251. Minesweeper says:

    Lotsa hamsters spinning in here out of control……unusually….

    Gotta love this though, the disconnection from reality, how they just cant see it….

    https://nypost.com/2019/09/25/women-are-struggling-to-find-men-who-make-as-much-money-as-they-do/

    “There are shortages of economically attractive men,” lead study author Daniel T. Lichter tells The Post. Although we like to think marriage is based on love, he says, it “also is fundamentally an economic transaction,” and women want partners whom they can call their equals.”

    If its an economic transaction, why would you need an equal ? If A=B and you have A, you don’t need B.

  252. Anonymous Reader says:

    7817
    Remember the Game discussions?

    We had one earlier this year. Did you miss it? Maybe you were not actually reading here at all? Maybe you’re just another “long time reader, just have to post today” troll?

    Start your own blog. Flame and troll MGT@W there, not here.

  253. Anonymous Reader says:

    7817
    We need a healthy community.

    Who’s “we”, dude?

  254. Anonymous Reader says:

    Paul to Oscar
    I don’t like your insinuation of me being dishonest

    You have been asked multiple times to support your claim regarding vegetarians & longevity, you do not do that, you run away and change the subject. That refusal to support an argument with facts is a form of dishonesty. Deal with it.

  255. Anonymous Reader says:

    Minesweeper
    “There are shortages of economically attractive men,” lead study author Daniel T. Lichter tells The Post.

    Lolz. Hypergamy is science, even if women and bluepilled soyboys refuse to admit it.

    GirlPOWER! You go, girls! Hypergamy is just a myth of teh Patriarchy!

  256. Anonymous Reader says:

    “Off topic: In San Francisco, $1,200/month rents you a bunk bed.”

    There are a lot of men living in tents from San Diego to Seattle. It is a real problem. Nobody wants to address it.

  257. Anonymous Reader says:

    7817
    This place is worth saving, but as you can see, the other side is not self moderating.

    Because you and vfm7516 continue to troll them. Cause and effect. Are you actually a woman, actually stupid, or just dishonest?

    There have been 40+ mgtow comments in response to VFM’s original comment, and yours. The heat was dying down, so you popped in to fan the flames yet again.

    You are like a vandal standing next to a burning dumpster with an ignited road flare in one hand and an empty gasoline can in the other, who tells the cops “I dunno, it just caught on fire, I dunno how”.

    Start your own blog.

  258. Jim says:

    Somewhere, Martin Luther has to be weeping.

    I was thinking the same thing. The mainline churches are just an extension of the modern Tower of Babel these days. So now they have their teenage goddess Greta to worship.

    “There are shortages of economically attractive men,” lead study author Daniel T. Lichter tells The Post.

    Well, when you have a system that endlessly punishes men and transfers their wealth to women all the time what can they expect?

    and women want partners whom they can call their equals.”

    No they don’t. They want to find a man they can steal from. Most of them are just thieves.

  259. Spike says:

    There are reports in the Swedish news and Wash Po about “Greta Thunberg is the successor of Jesus”.
    God will not be mocked. Roll on the Apocalypse.

  260. Frank K says:

    There are a lot of men living in tents from San Diego to Seattle. It is a real problem. Nobody wants to address it.

    Seeing the Democrat candidates tripping over each other to offer illegals free healthcare and other taxpayer provided goodies, while Americans rot away in tents is simply breathtaking.

  261. Dale U says:

    @Paul wrote:

    Mt 26 “I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

    So we’ll be drinking wine in heaven with Jesus, fantastic!

    Better not tell the church of the Nazarene that… One of their “added to Scripture” rules is that members are not permitted to drink any wine/beer. The membership document specifically said, “not even one drop”.

  262. Dale U says:

    For the MGTOW bashers: +1 to the comments telling you to shut up. I am married, but my views line up rather closely with feministHater. The worthy women from my country are few enough that I had to go to another culture to get a worthy woman. (No, not claiming that is the only way to be successful, or that I am better than you.)

    Going my own way, with respect to women, for me means rejecting those women who are unworthy; even if that means 99% of them. Even if that means I will end of getting no one, due to the incredibly small pool from which I am fishing.

  263. locustsplease says:

    @minesweeper economically attractive is so subjective. The older a woman gets the more it takes to impress her. Take an average hot 20yo woman if you make 60k and are 30 you are very economically attractive.

    When i was married i made about 60. My exes friends many made 6 figures some made couple hundo one husband and one boyfriend over a mil a year. I cant compete and look like a somali farmer.

    But it did affect her. All these women claiming economically attractive blah they want every dollar they make to b spending money. I paid 3/4 of our bills and you would think i hadnt worked in months. By the way she acted her family thought i was sneaking 20s out of her purse.

  264. BillyS says:

    Isn’t Aaron Clarey MGTOW? Or is he PUA? Either way, “enjoying the decline” is a far more hedonistic than any MGTOW and that is clearly more offensive in the eyes of God.

    And what about Vox’s pal Milo? Doesn’t pursuing a homosexual lifestyle go more against God’s commands than anything a MGTOW does? Why don’t we hear screeds against that?

    Only those who don’t exploit the current system are scum. What a bright idea.

  265. BillyS says:

    And so many keep voting for those Democrats Frank while proclaiming how scared they are of others. Bunch of fools!

  266. Oscar says:

    @ Paul

    I don’t like your insinuation of me being dishonest.

    I insinuated nothing. The fact that you thought I insinuated that you were being dishonest says a lot more about you than it does about me.

    I think it was clear from my post how I responded to your questions…

    You responded to my questions. You didn’t answer them.

    Do you think God made a mistake when He told people to eat meat after the flood?

    No

    Thanks for answering. Now, if God did not make a mistake; why not take Him at His word and eat meat?

    Do you live in a pre-fall world, or in a post-fall world?

    Post-fall

    Thanks again. Now, if you live in a post-fall world; why not follow God’s post-fall instructions?

    Happy?

    Usually, yes. Thanks for asking.

    As for our diet in heaven, as I stated, I think it will be vegetarian.

    Do you live in Heaven, or do you live on a fallen Earth?

    But probably God will recreate new type of plants for nutrition, probably similar to the pre-flood world where people lived for hundreds of years, to great longevity on vegetarian diets. (That was post-fall, Oscar)

    Do you live in a pre-Flood world, or do you live in a post-Flood world? Did God already “recreate new type of plants for nutrition”, or are the old types the only ones available to you?

    Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?

    No. But they live longer than most people.

    Seventh Day Adventists also abstain from tobacco and alcohol, and they preach against gluttony, and in favor of exercise. Could those be the reasons why they live longer than most people? Have you found a health and/or longevity study that isolates variables like tobacco, drug, and alcohol use, overeating, and exercise from eating or abstaining from eating meat?

    Did you see the chart I linked above of national per capita yearly consumption of meat and dairy vs. national average BMI?

  267. Sam says:

    It’s very easy to decry someone’s perspective as giving up when they come to a different, reasonable, decision from you. The system doesn’t ‘have’ to keep going. This is true in controversy over churches, sports teams, etc. People make reasonable, thought out, DIFFERENT choices than us.

    Also, vegetarianism in this comment thread was nuts. (Ha. Ha),

  268. Oscar says:

    @ BillyS

    And what about Vox’s pal Milo? Doesn’t pursuing a homosexual lifestyle go more against God’s commands than anything a MGTOW does? Why don’t we hear screeds against that?

    Because people who criticize Milo on Ted’s blog or channel get banned.

  269. white says:

    “mgtows need to die quietly”

    “jesus christ, stop your abusive comments already mgtows!”

  270. American says:

    I tell my haters that “time ends us all,” but they don’t find that comforting. 😉

  271. Paul says:

    @Oscar, @AR

    I already responded that since Noah we’re allowed to eat meat, but not required to do so multiple times. I also showed that people were created vegetarian, and also lived for very long ages post-fall a vegetarian lifestyle, that we will be eating in heaven, probably vegetarian. It’s a fact that vegetarians live longer according to multiple studies. It’s debated if that’s purely due to a vegetarian diet. On the other hand, the negative effects of eating at least some kinds of meat is well-known. Plus the benefits of eating more vegetables is also known. The BS about lack of proteins and amino acids, as well as the ignorance on eating soy, is glaring, From all this data it’s safe to conclude eating vegetarian is a healthy option. And I did not even start on the impact on the environment of eating meat versus vegetarian.

  272. Minesweeper says:

    @locustsplease, sorry to hear thats how you were treated 😦 scumbags arn’t they. Yeh it never ceases to amaze me just how entitled women seem to think they are to a mans earnings, with zero gratitude displayed.

    And even after they have demolished the relationship – THEY STILL EXPECT AND FEEL ENTITLED TO YOUR MONEY ! WITH STILL ZERO GRATITUDE DISPLAYED.

    Its fu8king unreal.

  273. Minesweeper says:

    Paul, Maybe you should hit up a vegan blog somewhere or we will have to get Scott to post photos of his fresh kills from his ranch. And the following bbq.

  274. Scott says:

    DaleU-

    Interesting about the Church of the Nazarene

    I am not sure if it was them, but in seminary we learned about some peculiar teachings from different denominations and one that came up was perfectionism–one of the many different variations on sanctification

    The idea is that, as a Christian progresses after his being saved, he sins less and less, because he learns better and better techniques avoiding for snares and so on. He has disciplined his mind and his intentions so much that he rarely sins.

    Assuming he lives for many years, this means that on the day of his death, he has become so Christ like that he basically walks right into Heaven, with “less” need of a savior than someone who has not progressed as far as he has.

    That is, Jesus does not have to reach quite so far down to lift that person up and welcome him into the Kingdom, because he is almost perfect already.

    This was the perspective from my VERY Calvinist professors at the time, who found this to be deeply offensive. They, of course, are of the position that no matter how many good works, no matter how spiritually disciplined you are, on the day of your death, you are still a wretched worthless sinner who deserves to burn in Hell until you are justified by faith and Christs sacrifice in place of you.

    I don’t really engage in that conversation much anymore because the Orthodox don’t so much focus on debate over such things, but it is interesting to think about from time to time.

  275. Minesweeper says:

    (Since Paul seems determined to turn this post into vegan food network.)

    And as for Alcohol folks, well its one of God’s miracle cures. Not the pesticide infused pig swill we know currently as alcohol but the organic stuff (without pesticides) is truly something else.

    1 Tim 5:23 – (of course the english translation is off from the greek by a country mile.)
    What it actually says is : “no-longer-only be-you-drinking-water but Wine(any fermented drink) few be-you-using! because-of the stomach of-you and the frequent of-you infirmities”

    Its not drink alittle wine, its a little of you drink wine 🙂

    And organic (Alcohol as God intended) is a fantastic probably the best detoxifier you will ever find.

    The opposite is true with the regular pesticide infused stuff which actually makes me feel very ill when I try some, the organic does the opposite.

    (I like to throw alittle bit of controversy in every now and then)

  276. Oscar says:

    @ Paul

    I also showed that people were created vegetarian, and also lived for very long ages post-fall a vegetarian lifestyle, that we will be eating in heaven, probably vegetarian.

    Did people live “very long ages post-fall” before the Flood, or after the Flood? Do you live before the Flood, or after the Flood? Do you live in Heaven, or a fallen Earth?

    It’s a fact that vegetarians live longer according to multiple studies.

    Of which you’ve provided exactly zero. And you’ve evaded the questions about isolating variables.

    It’s debated if that’s purely due to a vegetarian diet.

    That’s why rigorous scientific studies isolate variables. So – for the fourth time now – do you have any studies that isolate variables like tobacco, alcohol, overeating, and exercise from eating, or abstaining from eating meat?

    Please provide a “yes” or “no” answer. And if you have a study that isolates variables, then please provide the study.

    On the other hand, the negative effects of eating at least some kinds of meat is well-known.

    You’ve provided exactly zero studies to support this claim. Do you have any studies that support this claim that also isolate variables? Please provide a “yes” or “no” answer, and provide the studies, if they exist.

    From all this data it’s safe to conclude eating vegetarian is a healthy option.

    What data? You’ve provided exactly zero data. I provided data. Did you click on the link (this is the second time I’ve asked this question)?

    And I did not even start on the impact on the environment of eating meat versus vegetarian.

    Oh hell. Here we go.

  277. Scott says:

    Mineweeper-

    Its funny you mentioned the hunting thing. Its bow season (elk) right now, and although I am pretty much thoroughly busy from now util about 6 years after my death, I told my buddy to come up yesterday. On the ridge just to the northwest of my place there is a herd of them. I can stand on my balcony and count them clearly with my binoculars. He came out yesterday afternoon and spooked a couple, but they were too far for archery range.

    If I get something it will be a mule deer, as they are quite abundant on my property. Most nights I could throw a rock in any direction and hit five of them.

  278. John38 says:

    OT
    40% of couples met online in 2017. That number was 2% in 1995. 4% met in church.
    https://qz.com/1546677/around-40-of-us-couples-now-first-meet-online/

  279. Minesweeper says:

    @Scott says:”Its funny you mentioned the hunting thing. Its bow season (elk) right now, and although I am pretty much thoroughly busy from now util about 6 years after my death, I told my buddy to come up yesterday. On the ridge just to the northwest of my place there is a herd of them. I can stand on my balcony and count them clearly with my binoculars. He came out yesterday afternoon and spooked a couple, but they were too far for archery range.

    If I get something it will be a mule deer, as they are quite abundant on my property. Most nights I could throw a rock in any direction and hit five of them.”

    Fantastic ! Who needs to go to the shops when the meat is wondering past your door. So are you not allowed to use rifles ?

    “although I am pretty much thoroughly busy from now util about 6 years after my death, ”

    Hope you get all your work done before the 15ft of snow arrives !

  280. TheTraveler says:

    Here’s a simple solution to the whole MGTOW controversy:

    If you feel called to be married, then marry. Not following your “gut instinct” will lead to regrets. (Perhaps some MGTOWs are so savage because of regrets for missed opportunities?)

    If you don’t feel called to be married, that’s fine too. Don’t get married.

    If you think marriage is a trap for men, that’s your right. But it’s not your right to condemn those who think differently. (The spirit of it: “Dude, you want to run that 10k? Only [many expletives] losers do that, you a**hole.”
    NOT COOL.) MGTOWs call men losers for marrying, but react savagely to identical pushback.

    If you’re a believer, a calling comes from God. If you’re not, call it your “evolutionary instincts.”

    If you feel compelled to torch people for believing in a “sky wizard,” maybe you’re in the wrong place. Maybe that’s why you’re so full of despair–you think this life is IT, and you’re panicking because, yeah, you’re right: it’s really shitty right now. A lot of believers have some real issues with God over what is being allowed to happen despite our best efforts to stem the tide. You’re not unique in your despair.

    Finally, there seems to be an ever-increasing, increasingly-mean-mouthed MGTOW presence here. I’ve got news for y’all: you sound just as bad as any man-hating feminist. You are classic misogynists (“All women are like that!” They’re all predator whores!, etc.) in the pre-feminist sense of the word. Like feminists, you seem to harbor not only hatred for the opposite sex, but misanthropy for anyone who disagrees with you.

    I have to wonder if these MGTOW wars are calculated to shut this blog down?

    Shout out to Novaseeker–I agree that the MGTOW controversies here are ruining this forum. Buy your own space and go play in it–stop hijacking this one.

  281. feministhater says:

    Yawn. Thanks for that unhinged rant. Haha!

  282. Kaminsky says:

    You said; (Perhaps some MGTOWs are so savage because of regrets for missed opportunities?)

    or likewise

    (Perhaps some married men are so savage because of regrets for missed opportunities?)

    You said; “If you think marriage is a trap for men, that’s your right. But it’s not your right to condemn those who think differently”

    or likewise

    “If you think marriage is not a trap for men, that’s your right. But it’s not your right to condemn those who think differently”

    You said; “MGTOWs call men losers for marrying, but react savagely to identical pushback.”

    or likewise;

    “Men call MGTOWS losers for not marrying, but react savagely to identical pushback.”

    You said; “… but misanthropy for anyone who disagrees with you.”

    Same

    You said; “Finally, there seems to be an ever-increasing, increasingly-mean-mouthed MGTOW presence here. I’ve got news for y’all: you sound just as bad as any man-hating feminist.”

    Likewise;

    “Finally, there seems to be an ever-increasing, increasingly-mean-mouthed TRADCON presence here. I’ve got news for y’all: you sound just as bad as any man-hating feminist.”

    Get it now?

  283. purge187 says:

    “Either way, ‘enjoying the decline’ is a far more hedonistic than any MGTOW and that is clearly more offensive in the eyes of God.”

    I’m not sure about that. It’s fairly obvious at this point that America has passed the point of no return, so I think Clarey is stating the obvious when he suggests that we make the best of it until the SHTF.

  284. scarletlagomorph says:

    @TheTraveler

    If you feel called to be married, then marry. Not following your “gut instinct” will lead to regrets. (Perhaps some MGTOWs are so savage because of regrets for missed opportunities?)

    If you don’t feel called to be married, that’s fine too. Don’t get married.

    If you think marriage is a trap for men, that’s your right. But it’s not your right to condemn those who think differently. (The spirit of it: “Dude, you want to run that 10k? Only [many expletives] losers do that, you a**hole.”
    NOT COOL.) MGTOWs call men losers for marrying, but react savagely to identical pushback.

    If you’re a believer, a calling comes from God. If you’re not, call it your “evolutionary instincts.”

    If that live-and-let-live attitude were the general consensus here I would be more than happy to read the content here and trot on. Unfortunate, that is not the attitude, as evidenced by the very first fucking comment on this post. I don’t mind remotely being made fun of; despite being nonreligious I feel that humility, and especially being able to laugh at oneself, is one of the best forms of medicine for dealing with the generally shitty behaviour to which humans are prone. However, being invited to crawl off and die is not longer poking fun, it’s tacitly denying the human dignity of an ideological opponent, and that I won’t tolerate quietly.

    If you feel compelled to torch people for believing in a “sky wizard,” maybe you’re in the wrong place. Maybe that’s why you’re so full of despair–you think this life is IT, and you’re panicking because, yeah, you’re right: it’s really shitty right now. A lot of believers have some real issues with God over what is being allowed to happen despite our best efforts to stem the tide. You’re not unique in your despair.

    Wow, I’ve never heard this line of thought before. Nonreligious people shout down religious ideologues because we’re in despair because this ‘shitty’ world is all that there is. Speaking only for myself, my problem isn’t with people of faith generally but rather those that invite me to swallow the mouthfuls of shit offered up by life and try to convince me that there’s an omnibenevolent force behind it all and that to be happy all I have to do is just trust that there’s a plan behind it that’s to my own benefit (or to the benefit of the human race as a whole if one happens to be particularly Calvinist in their understanding of predestination). As an extension of that, I get rather annoyed with religious people that extol marriage as a net-positive risk in the face of overwhelming evidence that the odds of a successful navigation are not in your favour.

    Finally, there seems to be an ever-increasing, increasingly-mean-mouthed MGTOW presence here. I’ve got news for y’all: you sound just as bad as any man-hating feminist. You are classic misogynists (“All women are like that!” They’re all predator whores!, etc.) in the pre-feminist sense of the word. Like feminists, you seem to harbor not only hatred for the opposite sex, but misanthropy for anyone who disagrees with you.

    MGTOW place due blame on the nature of women but place equal blame on the white knights that suborn their behaviour, and the tradcon institutions that infantalise them and destroy men at their behest. As for the claim that we’re misogynists, some definitely are, but in my admittedly anecdotal experience just as many are just cautious and realistic about female mating strategy. Last, regarding the charge of misathropy toward those that disagree with me, that would depend on the manner of disagreement. If that disagreement is devoid of editorialism, race-baiting comments about genetic or cultural suicide, and ad hominem attacks, then I’m perfectly willing to let both sides be heard and let those on the fence all the shot. But, as is evidenced by this comment section, and numerous others here lately, that sort of disagreement has a rarity bordering on the mythical.

    I have to wonder if these MGTOW wars are calculated to shut this blog down?

    Why would we bother? Again, speaking for myself, I’m only here to get a tradcon (purple-pill at best) perspective on the current sociopolitical climate. Until the current anti-MGTOW parade I almost never posted. You can of course make of that what you will.

  285. info says:

    Speaking of Vegetarianism:

    Unless a man has cheese and meat he will turn into a weak malnourished flabby mess. Compared to Agricultural peoples I read that Nomad peoples aren’t as malnourished historically.

    Feeding on Grass-fed Beef and Cheese. Or like Eskimos animal meats and fats who prior to the modern world eat very well.

  286. thedeti says:

    For a lot of men, MGTOW/eschewing marriage and fatherhood entirely will be their best bet. And that’s because a growing number of men are just not sexually attractive enough to forge and sustain a relationship with one woman. If they make the mistake of marrying any woman, they’re just fatted calf for the divorce rape slaughter.

    Isn’t it obvious that more and more men just don’t have what it takes to marry and stay married to the average Western woman? Isn’t it obvious that the average Western woman has already had sex with at least 5 men she was more attracted to, and that she’s just settling for him?

    More and more men aren’t marriage material – some because they don’t try; some because they’ve tried and still aren’t. Some because they just don’t get it. Some because they just don’t want to get it. They aren’t prepared for marriage, some because they can’t, some because they don’t want to be, some couldn’t even if they wanted to. We’re entering marriage 3.0, which is essentially open marriages, polyamory, and polyandry. No way I’d accept that, much less be prepared for it.

    Take these guys who are late 30s, marrying women in their mid to late 30s – women who have spent the last 20 years on the cock/career carousel. Is it not obvious these women are marrying not for love or attraction, but for status and security, and as a capstone to their other “achievements”? Isn’t it plain these women are marrying because they need to check that box off the bucket list and get someone, anyone, to serve as father (figure) for their one designer kid? Isn’t it plain these women are essentially running casting calls to put someone, anyone, in the role of “husband”, a key supporting player in the Drama Of Her Life?

    These guys are preparing for… that? These guys are expected to handle that? There’s no way they’re going to be prepared for the garbage fire sh*tshow those marriages will be. They’ll be deadbedroomed so fast it’ll make everyone’s head spin. And they’ll be in divorce court as soon as Designer Kid is in private school kindergarten they are paying for (and will continue to pay for in addition to their impending child support obligations).

    So, for a growing number of men, MGTOW is the only rational choice, for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that these men aren’t marriage material. And that’s not casting aspersions. It’s a recognition of the fact that these men aren’t prepared for marriage in any way, have next to nothing that a woman wants, and couldn’t get ready to offer her anything she wants. More and more men are completely ill-equipped for marriage now. I include myself in that group as well. If I were unmarried now, there’s no way I could marry, and no way I can in good conscience recommend marriage to anyone. There’s no way, no way in the world, I could attract and keep a woman strongly enough to keep her with me until one of us dies. I can’t do it. And more and more men can’t either.

  287. Swanny River says:

    Deti,
    I think a guy can find a Christian wife who will stay with them, just my guess, and restricted to middle and upper class, that 40% – 60% will stay.
    But, it’s not a marriage that any man is prepared to enjoy and give glory to God for because she’ll stay but always nag, have church approval, be free of church discipline, rarely pay respect to him, etc. But she will stay. However, he might die early for having a scold and competitor instead of a help meet. I may use, “stay” differently than you. I think of the flesh being bodily present, while you may be thinking of staying and being engaged and helpful.

  288. Novaseeker says:

    OT
    40% of couples met online in 2017. That number was 2% in 1995. 4% met in church.

    And the number will go up. It has to do with apps vs online dating. Apps are different from online dating in the same ways that smartphones are different from home PCs, and so they have had a much more impactful effect on mate selection. They are displacing all other forms of meeting mates EXCEPT FOR meeting in bars. Between dating apps and meeting in bars, that’s 2/3 of couples. Everything else, individually, is “trace” in comparison.

    Adapt or die.

  289. thedeti says:

    Swanny:

    I know lots and lots of men who have marriages like this. Sure, they’re still married. But their wives are plainly and obviously disdainful of them, disgusted by them, openly disrespect them. Those women stay because they don’t want to suffer the status hit they’ll take in a divorce, don’t want to suffer the shame from their kids or their extended families, and don’t want to suffer the financial/standard of living reduction they’ll take.

    Most of all those women know , deep down, that the man she picked is just about the best she can do in terms of getting one to stay with her. So, in a divorce, her choices are (1) sad sack 40-something or 50 something divorced men living on half their income, driving 15 year old cars and living in overpriced apartments; or (2) heading back out to the 40-something divorcee carousel – bars, online dating profiles, the occasional cougar/cub sportf*ck, serial monogamy, pump and dumps, drama, etc. Kind of like it was back in their late teens and early 20s, except with no condoms because he’s got the snip or she had her tubes tied, and with more money to spend. To this set, “foreplay” is sitting in a bar exchanging witty banter and small talk; getting slowly drunk on cocktails and Stella Artois.

    God, I’m getting cynical…..

  290. thedeti says:

    This last part of this thread reminds me of The Weakened Signal:

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/01/08/the-weakened-signal/

  291. Novaseeker says:

    Those women stay because they don’t want to suffer the status hit they’ll take in a divorce, don’t want to suffer the shame from their kids or their extended families, and don’t want to suffer the financial/standard of living reduction they’ll take.

    Yes this is the “golden handcuffs” effect. It kicks in in a very particular socio-economic set — the one that is educated and has very good income, but not the wealthy (i.e., high assets) group and also not the good, and lower, income groups. This is the set with high marriage and low divorce rates, but many of the marriages are as you describe.

    So, in a divorce, her choices are (1) sad sack 40-something or 50 something divorced men living on half their income, driving 15 year old cars and living in overpriced apartments; or (2) heading back out to the 40-something divorcee carousel – bars, online dating profiles, the occasional cougar/cub sportf*ck, serial monogamy, pump and dumps, drama, etc. Kind of like it was back in their late teens and early 20s, except with no condoms because he’s got the snip or she had her tubes tied, and with more money to spend. To this set, “foreplay” is sitting in a bar exchanging witty banter and small talk; getting slowly drunk on cocktails and Stella Artois.

    Delusions aside, this is generally true when it comes to re-pairing for women who are older. The good-looking ones, to the dismay of many in the manosphere who wish it were otherwise, have no problem finding hookups with attractive men. In part the reason for that is that there are so few women in these age ranges who are still good-looking, which creates a high demand for them when it comes to hookups, sex, short-term stuff and so on. High school never ends for good looking women, folks. But for long-term relationships, second marriages and so on, the pickings are very, very slim, even for good looking women in these age ranges (say 45+). There just really aren’t men around to marry who are upgrades from the ex-husband, and even sidegrades are very few and far between, most of them being still married themselves. The divorced (hence available and either non-player or non-incel in these age ranges) are like you say — emotionally damaged, financially sapped by an ex who is still draining the income, and generally unattractive for marriage. Women in these age ranges who are attractive do not find it difficult to attract men — an attractive 45 year old woman has no issues attracting men from 40 to 60+, and even lower in age for hookup/short-term stuff. For LTR/marriages, however, the quality of men isn’t there, and so her options are to stick with short-term with more attractive men who will never marry her, or marry a downgrade or, if she’s very lucky, a less-than-optimal sidegrade who is less damaged and less financially ruined by his own divorce.

  292. thedeti says:

    It kicks in in a very particular socio-economic set — the one that is educated and has very good income, but not the wealthy (i.e., high assets) group and also not the good, and lower, income groups. This is the set with high marriage and low divorce rates, but many of the marriages are as you describe.

    Yes. Usually upper middle class, H and W both college educated, both working in professional level jobs, both working to sustain a UMC lifestyle that includes McMansion, nice cars, a week vacation every year in a nice destination, music lessons, sports teams, country club membership, husband in Chamber of Commerce, wife in Junior League or on the PTA, sometimes private schools for the kids, etc. High marriage rates, low divorce rates, and they stay together mostly because they can’t afford to divorce.

    The good-looking ones, to the dismay of many in the manosphere who wish it were otherwise, have no problem finding hookups with attractive men. In part the reason for that is that there are so few women in these age ranges who are still good-looking, which creates a high demand for them when it comes to hookups, sex, short-term stuff and so on. High school never ends for good looking women, folks.

    This is a red pill a lot of men are having trouble swallowing. There is no revenge comeuppance. Roosh was saying this 5 years ago. Attractive women in the 40 and up set can still get attractive men for sex, and even for short term relationships sometimes, depending on where they are. They just can’t attract those high value men for marriage, at least not usually.

    And these women, given a choice between dating a series of attractive men and marrying a man who’s, at best, on the level of her ex husband, will say “been there done that” and stay unmarried. Seen it too often to deny it.

  293. Lost Patrol says:

    Is it not obvious these women are marrying not for love or attraction, but for status and security, and as a capstone to their other “achievements”?

    It’s like it is obvious but it isn’t. The other older women know exactly what’s going on. They discuss these things openly among themselves. Some old men get it simply by virtue of having lived long enough to see it play out many times, and have possibly come to recognize themselves as bit players. It’s already too late for them if or when they understand the pattern. Manospherians know but as has been discussed before there are actually very few of us in the grand scheme, and even among those some have already done hard time in this very scenario.

    The AFCs, which are legion, do not really see it. They are just happy that a woman finally appears to be into their program. Many people around them that do see it do not help them to understand or actively aid and abet the woman going for the capstone. “Good work Mortimer, she’s a real catch! Don’t screw it up!”

  294. Swanny River says:

    Deti,
    Your H and W paragraph aptly describes my church, or about 30%.
    The kids end up being successful at being godly even though they go to public schools. I don’t wish suffering for them, but it does stir up envy in me because the parents are all public school, anti-Trump blue pillers, and yet it’s working out for them. One boy went the college-fornication with a girlfriend route, but the others are looking like they are staying clean.

  295. Swanny River says:

    Lost Patrol,
    “She’s a real catch don’t screw it up” is an excellent and concise description of what passes for church wisdom. It’s all screwed up because it rests upon a Christianized feminism instead of the Bible.

  296. SirHamster says:

    @Oscar
    Not a direct answer to what you were looking for in examples of Voxian advice to young men searching for a wife, but relevant.

  297. Minesweeper says:

    So that’s Vox is it, so that’s who you guys are worshipping, I understand now completely.

  298. Lost Patrol says:

    I’m getting cynical…..

    I can relate. It’s not the year model Brah, it’s the mileage. A little cynicism is helpful if we don’t let it get the best of us. The main thing is not to give them the satisfaction of thinking we’re beat. Whoever them is.

  299. Paul says:

    @Oscar

    It doesn’t matter in what age I live. Our bodies are created vegetarian, even post-fall vegetarianism was the norm, and apparently only post-flood the environment changed such that meat-eating was allowed. Maybe because it was more difficult to otherwise get sufficient proteins, we don’t know. It doesn’t change a thing. We’re not commanded to eat meat. With our knowledge of nutrition, we can get all nutrients from a vegetarian diet, that’s a fact. I’m not gonna supply articles, you can easily look these up. I already mentioned controversies, so I’m not gonna go there. It’s a fact that vegetarians live longer, but it is a discussion if that’s only due to not eating meat.The reasons I gave based on the biblical account, plus the negative effects of eating some meats, as well as the benefits of eating fruit and vegetables are the data I supplied. It’s not hard to look that up.

    But then again, I do not forbid anyone from eating meat, but I don’t like the uninformed opinions on vegetarianism. It is a healthy lifestyle, with biblical support.

    As for the environmental impact, I’m now not really surprised about your negative reaction. Let’s just say that I think a Christian should act responsible towards God’s creation in the broadest sense. Eating soy or other plant-based proteins is much more efficient and more beneficial to the environment in terms or land usage, water usage, water pollution, air pollution, methane emission, CO2 emission etc. than first feeding it to cattle and eating those.

    The one article I will link to is from Nature that integrates most of these points:
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0594-0.epdf

  300. Oscar says:

    @ Paul

    I’m not gonna supply articles, you can easily look these up.

    That’s not how debate works. When you make a truth claim, it’s your responsibility to support it with facts. You’ve failed completely to do so, which is completely unsurprising.

    So, for the fifth time: do you, or do you not have any studies (not articles, studies) that isolate tobacco use, alcohol, exercise and overeating, from a diet the includes or excludes meat?

    Which is it, Paul? Yes, you do have such a study, or no, you have no such study?

  301. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Putin unimpressed by Greta: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-putin-thunberg/russias-putin-criticizes-greta-thunbergs-un-speech-idUSKBN1WH1FM

    Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday took aim at teenage climate activist Greta Thunberg, telling an energy forum he did not share the excitement about her United Nations speech last month. …

    Putin, chairing a session at an energy forum in Moscow, said: “I may disappoint you but I don’t share the common excitement about the speech by Greta Thunberg.

    “No one has explained to Greta that the modern world is complex and different and … people in Africa or in many Asian countries want to live at the same wealth level as in Sweden.”

    No wonder that Western media and academia hate Russia.

  302. Dalrock says:

    @Paul

    I already mentioned that up till Noah everyone was a vegetarian, which was the original pre-fall diet. Do you think God made a mistake with that?

    I confess that I’m coming in late without having read the full exchange, but this claim surprised me. My apologies if someone already brought this up. Genesis 4 tells us (ESV):

    4 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have gotten[a] a man with the help of the Lord.” 2 And again, she bore his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a worker of the ground. 3 In the course of time Cain brought to the Lord an offering of the fruit of the ground, 4 and Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and his offering, 5 but for Cain and his offering he had no regard.

    Note that God preferred Abel’s offering of meat over Cain’s offering of vegetables (grain?). The meat pleased God. Moreover, why would a vegetarian kill a sheep and offer meat to God? If the sheep were merely for wool, then his offering should have been wool, or yarn, or perhaps a cardigan. But it wasn’t. It was meat, and it pleased the Lord.

  303. Minesweeper says:

    “But it wasn’t. It was meat, and it pleased the Lord.”

    Yep, meats, animal fats, normally reared (organic grass fed) are healthy like fish is.

    And eggs, butter are fantastic for health(essential). I’ve never met a healthy vegetarian (mental+physical) in my life (yet).

    God made them for a darn good reason – we needed them.

  304. Minesweeper says:

    @Scott, when you get a “mule deer” I hope you use everything from it, esp the bones which are amazingly valuable in a bone broth. And all the organs as well, wayyyyy better for you than the muscle.

    But that again, really is a hard learned skill, how to butcher and fully use an animal. This used to be passed down skill, how do you find someone to teach you that now ?

    I’ve had deer on my (previous) property and loads of them nearby in the woods as well. Thing is if you don’t know what to do after a kill, you can waste the entire thing – things happen fast.

    It really is a very very hard earned skill. In which your obligated not to screw it up.

    I lived once with a taiwan professor, who just ***loved*** pigs trotters, the whole place stank with it, but as no one in our culture wants these, he could get them almost for free. in Taiwan they are as expensive as caviar and as rare as they are so highly regarded !

    And actually they are, very healthy !

  305. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Dalrock, my study Bibles suggest that God didn’t prefer meat to grain. Rather, there are other possibilities:

    1. Abel brought the firstborn of his flock — the best. Cain did not bring the first fruits — the best of his harvest.

    2. Cain already had sin in his heart, thus he didn’t offer his sacrifices with the right disposition.

    God would later demand both meat and grain sacrifices from the Israelites, so there couldn’t have been anything wrong with Cain’s offering.

  306. Acksiom says:

    Fear, greed, and laziness.

    You exploiters rage out against MGTOW because male liberation is a threat to your wealth and status. The more men who drop out, the more you will have to pay the men who stay in. But you’re too greedy and lazy to do anything about the underlying causes because that would also cost you more in wealth and commitment than you want to pay.

    You don’t care enough about your own communities’ posterity to take the long view, so you’re loudly opposed to fair deals for other men whom you consider your servile and undeserving inferiors.

    You don’t want to pay men what their surplus production is increasingly worth, so you try to devalue and dehumanize them in everyone’s minds.

    Fear, greed, and laziness.

  307. Minesweeper says:

    Acksiom says:”You exploiters rage out against MGTOW because male liberation is a threat to your wealth and status. The more men who drop out, the more you will have to pay the men who stay in. But you’re too greedy and lazy to do anything about the underlying causes because that would also cost you more in wealth and commitment than you want to pay.

    You don’t care enough about your own communities’ posterity to take the long view, so you’re loudly opposed to fair deals for other men whom you consider your servile and undeserving inferiors.

    You don’t want to pay men what their surplus production is increasingly worth, so you try to devalue and dehumanize them in everyone’s minds.

    Fear, greed, and laziness.”

    Nailed it.

  308. TheTraveler says:

    Note the FRSGS in the picture. It means “Fellow of the Royal Scottish Geographical Society.”

    So they’re now handing out prestigious honors to ignorantly screeching, mentally ill teenagers. Because wokeness.

  309. Anonymous Reader says:

    @The Red Quest

    Bryan Caplan can’t figure out that unlimited immigration drives wages for ordinary men down. He’s a failure as an economist, so his babble about babymommas is laughable. In a few years he’ll be econsplaining why more female college grads aren’t getting married, and it will also be laughable.

    “Cheap Chalupas” is a dolt.

  310. TheTraveler says:

    @feministhater

    Your name says it all–negative and brutal.

    I acknowledge your right to your beliefs–but condemn your hate and despsir–and you call it “unhinged.”

    No argument, ergo ad hominem.

  311. 7817 says:

    Delusions aside, this is generally true when it comes to re-pairing for women who are older. The good-looking ones, to the dismay of many in the manosphere who wish it were otherwise, have no problem finding hookups with attractive men. In part the reason for that is that there are so few women in these age ranges who are still good-looking, which creates a high demand for them when it comes to hookups, sex, short-term stuff and so on. High school never ends for good looking women, folks.

    Adapt or die

    Right on. It doesn’t help a man to have revenge fantasies about the Wall. Wishing bad on others is about as effective a way to self sabotage as any, and it’s impossible to hide that attitude.

  312. info says:

    @thedeti
    Of many of those women Jesus will say I never knew you.

    Unless they are repentant and/or receive divine discipline which successfully shapes their character to be Christlike. Or their bodies are destroyed and their souls saved at the last day.

    Jesus will say: “I never knew you” for the absence of divine discipline shows they are illegitimate spiritual children.

  313. info says:

    Dont know if this is stretching things a bit. But I suspect that maybe Cain and Abel were clan chieftains.

    Which is how Cain was able to mysteriously able to get himself a wife and build cities. Since city building definitely is not a one man project.

    And they represent the Pastoral/Agriculture divide. And the possible hostility thereof symbolically speaking.

  314. American says:

    “Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant” _Genesis 9:3 (NASB).

    I don’t care if Adam and Eve were vegetarian for a time because God declared in Genesis 9:3 that the animal world is available to me for food. If you want to be a vegetarian, go for it. Me, I have to get those top sirloin steaks and shrimp on the barbecue. Bon appetit.

  315. American says:

    @Minesweeper: I have to admit that sawing off a mule deer’s head did get to me some. But the deer meat and fresh corn was fantastic over mesquite wood. It was worth it.

  316. Anonymous Reader says:

    So they’re now handing out prestigious honors to ignorantly screeching, mentally ill teenagers. Because wokeness.

    Not really new. Some Nobel Peace Prizes over the last 40 years were a joke.

    That said, the fawing over Greta shows clearly that the global elites want what they want.

  317. feeriker says:

    Deti says:

    God, I’m getting cynical…..

    Once again, I offer:

    “The power of accurate observation is commonly called ‘cynicism’ by those who have not got it.” ~ George Bernard Shaw

  318. BillyS says:

    Paul,

    Some texts come to mind, showing we will be eating and drinking in heaven.

    That means we will have BBQ and that will not be from tofu!

    First, the text strongly indicates he ate vegetables the rest of his live, as he continued to live on the court. Mind you, it was upon his own request to only eat vegetables. Nothing indicates the circumstances in the court changed.

    Nothing indicates it remained the same and he would have had to stay away from things like the Passover Ceder, so your point is not valid in the slightest.

    Second, even if Daniel later ate meat, that still made him a vegetarian during that period.

    So what? Giving up meat for Lent, as some in the RCC do, does not mean they have turned vegetarian.

  319. Oscar says:

    @ Minesweeper

    @Scott, when you get a “mule deer” I hope you use everything from it, esp the bones which are amazingly valuable in a bone broth. And all the organs as well, wayyyyy better for you than the muscle.

    Dude, I just ate breakfast, and you’re making me hungry.

  320. BillyS says:

    info,

    You have bought the modern lie that God didn’t create all humans through Adam and Eve. Sin coming through one man means nothing without that as well. Remember that everyone started out perfect, so marrying a sister/niece/etc. was not as bad then as it is now since the genetics hadn’t decayed as much, even after The Fall and The Curse.

  321. justdoit says:

    @Frank K

    >>Electric cars are still too expensive. Without taxpayer subsidies, a lowly Nissan Leaf starts at $33000, plus sales tax. A Chevy Bolt is $44,000.

    >>A good apples to apples comparison is the Kia Soul. The EV version costs twice what a conventional one costs (~$40K vs. ~20K)

    Electric cars are the wrong choice. Only the uninformed or dishonest claim that electric cars are a good idea from an environmental standpoint. The truth is that with the average CO2/kWh in the US electric grid mix, a hybrid of the same physical size and power beats the electric car on CO2 every time.

    A 2020 Prius Eco L gets 58/53 est. mpg and costs $24,200. It emits less CO2/mile than a Nissan Leaf electric, and easily fits 4 passengers with plenty of legroom, whereas the Leaf is a tiny car with little passenger room and luggage room. And the Kia Soul at 20k is 17/23mpg, really awful numbers.

    The red pill thing to do is to buy a Toyota Prius Eco L basic model for 24k. Lots of people, including environmentalists, do not understand that electric cars without a massive additional supply of CO2-free electricity are considerably WORSE than the best hybrids.

    And don’t go flying willy-nilly. Greta Thunberg is right about that. Because of the long distances covered in a short time, the oil consumption is huge. By the way, a Prius with 4 passengers is more than 2X as efficient per mile as the very best airliner under optimal loading and travel distance.

    Again, Men are the primary victims of Global Warming.

  322. Oscar says:

    @ SirHamster

    Not a direct answer to what you were looking for in examples of Voxian advice to young men searching for a wife, but relevant.

    As I stated before, I’ve read extensively on Ted Beale’s blog, and listened to many of his YouTube videos (I’ve heard him mention you multiple times), and the video you just shared proves my point.

    Beale tells young people (mostly men) to “focus on getting married”. Great. The next obvious questions are “how do I find a good wife? How do I discern a good wife from a bad one?” To my knowledge, Beale never answers those questions. I could be wrong. Maybe he has answered those questions, but every time I ask one of his devotees, they squirt squid ink and expect me to accept it as an answer.

    This is going to be long, but I respectfully request that you follow along. I apologize for the length of this post. And I apologize for my excessive pugnaciousness the last time we tangled. That was wrong of me.

    Here’s where I’m coming from.

    1. Ted Beale is doing good work. Between his books, his publishing house, his comic books, his blog, his channel, and now Unauthorized TV, he’s doing far more than most to engage the culture, and he deserves credit for that.

    2. I’m a father of five girls and four boys. I’m trying to raise them Biblically, but I increasingly see how lost young men are, even in the church, and it grieves me.

    3. I spent most of my professional career as an Army Engineer Officer. As such, I served in Iraq and Afghanistan, which included ordering men (and I do mean men) to do things that could get them killed, which shaped the way I think about risk. That part’s important.

    When my platoon and I cleared suspected insurgent safe houses, I gave them very general instructions, such as; “First Squad, breach; Second Squad, assault; Third Squad, security. Go!”

    I could do that because we’d trained that drill over and over. Every man on in the platoon knew what he was supposed to do, and what the men to his left and right were supposed to do. Everyone knew that I always went with the assault team, and that the Platoon Sergeant and medic always went with the security team. There was no ambiguity, even though we always had to adjust on the fly to adapt to the situation.

    You can’t do that with untrained people. Untrained people need training before you send them to do something that could get them killed.

    Today’s young men are not just untrained; they’re brain-washed. At the risk of asking you to read even more, please see my conversation with “Sergeant Jesse”.

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2019/09/20/do-our-social-justice-warriors-deserve-the-best-money-can-buy/#comment-334172

    You can’t, in good conscience, tell a bunch of brain-washed young people to “prepare for marriage” when they haven’t the first clue what “good, beautiful and true” even looks like, because they’ve never actually seen it.

    The irony is that there is at least one MGTOW out there who provides more practical, actionable advice on discerning good women from bad women in one video than both Beale’s and Benjamin’s entire channels combined.

    Look, I get it. Marriage is no where near as risky as raiding an insurgent safe house (though some will surely argue that point). But marriage is risky these days. Anyone who tells young men to get married, without explaining the risks to them, and how to mitigate those risks, is sinning against those young men.

    That goes for pastors, parents, and Supreme Dark Lords.

    Again, I apologize for the wall of text.

  323. info says:

    @BillyS
    “You have bought the modern lie that God didn’t create all humans through Adam and Eve. Sin coming through one man means nothing without that as well. Remember that everyone started out perfect, so marrying a sister/niece/etc. was not as bad then as it is now since the genetics hadn’t decayed as much, even after The Fall and The Curse.”

    Disagree. There are many births that are implied by (Genesis 5:4). So many births of non-important people aren’t really focused on. So my only mistake may be the timing.

    But then again since Cain built a city afterwards he was definitely a clan chieftain. He was a head of many of the Sons and Daughters of Adam and Eve.

    Solomon for example was credited with building the Temple:
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Kings+6&version=KJV

    And appears at 1st glance did all the work himself according to the wording. But actually his workmen did the work.

    So it is with Cain.

  324. Paul says:

    @Oscar

    As I already mentioned, it is debated if the longevity of vegetarians is purely due to eating vegetarian, hence no, as far as I know there’s currently no study that isolates that. Even more, it’s debated if it’s even possible to do that. I claimed that vegetarians live longer, which is true. I also claimed that eating vegetarian is healthy, which is also true. Eating some types of meat is unhealthy, which is also true to the best of the scientific knowledge. The impact on the environment is also proven, see the Nature article. I’m not entering into a pseudo-scientific back and forth when the things I stated are widely acknowledged, I don’t want to put energy into that. If you want to debate that, find a nutritional scientist of your picking. You can declare yourself winner of your own debate according to your rules. Congrats.

    @Dalrock

    Offering of the sheep I interpret to mean Abel did not eat it, as indicated by the command in Gen 1 that allotted a vegetarian diet to humans, which was only changed after the flood. The text seems not to suggest he violated the Gen 1 command on vegetarianism. I interpret it as to indicate that Abel understood that only the offering of an innocent lamb could substitute for his sins, pointing forward to the sacrifice of Christ.

    Apparently eating vegetarian is deeply offensive to many of you, so be it. I’m not trying to convert you, as God’s Word clearly indicates people are allowed to eat meat, and we should not condemn who eat or don’t eat. I just responded to an initial very negative and untrue remark on vegetarianism.

  325. Oscar says:

    @ Paul

    As I already mentioned, it is debated if the longevity of vegetarians is purely due to eating vegetarian, hence no, as far as I know there’s currently no study that isolates that.

    Thank you for finally answering the question. Was that really so difficult?

    No, there are no studies that isolate variables. Why not? Isolating variables is standard scientific procedure. So, why isn’t that happening?

    Eating some types of meat is unhealthy, which is also true to the best of the scientific knowledge.

    What scientific knowledge? You’ve provided zero studies to support that claim. Do any studies that support that claim isolate variables?

    I’m not entering into a pseudo-scientific back and forth when the things I stated are widely acknowledged

    “Widely acknowledged” is pseudo-scientific speak for “I lack the data to support my argument, but I don’t want to admit that fact”.

    Apparently eating vegetarian is deeply offensive to many of you, so be it.

    That’s not the case at all. As I stated four days ago; Do what you want. Eat what you want. No one is stopping you.

    The problem is that you made all kinds of claims, provided zero evidence to support your claims, evaded questions when asked to provide supporting evidence, and then covered yourself in the mantle of “science” while playing the victim.

    I hate to break it to you, but actual science involves supporting your hypotheses with evidence. If you can’t do those things – and you clearly can’t – then you might want to find a different hobby.

  326. Paul says:

    @BillyS I think I still owe you an answer

    he would have had to stay away from things like the Passover Ceder

    It’s Seder. There’s no proof it was celebrated by Daniel. Moreover, the deported Jews would have been unable to adhere to any command related to temple offerings, including the feasts, including sacrifice of the Passover.

    That means we will have BBQ and that will not be from tofu!
    That we will be eating does not imply we will be eating meat. Who knows.

    Giving up meat for Lent, as some in the RCC do, does not mean they have turned vegetarian.
    I never claim someone “turns vegetarian”. Someone willfully abstaining from meat (including fish), which Daniel did, is following a vegetarian diet by definition. I also know plenty of people who switch diets. I’m not one of those who claim “you are what you eat”.

  327. Minesweeper says:

    Paul,
    Daniel 10:3 GNB
    “I did not eat any rich food or any meat, drink any wine, or comb my hair until the three weeks were past.”

    Do you think he would have mentioned the above if he was excluding them from his daily routine ?

  328. Minesweeper says:

    Daniel wasn’t a vegetarian.

    He chose to not defile himself with the royal foods+drinks while in training for 3 years.

    The fact was known even then that meat + wine meant you were healthier. God supernaturally intervened in many occasions in Daniels life, this was 1 of them.

    He survived + thrived on vegetables for a season and also survived a night in a lions den.

  329. Testi says:

    What has this blog come to?

  330. Dalrock says:

    @Paul

    @Dalrock

    Offering of the sheep I interpret to mean Abel did not eat it, as indicated by the command in Gen 1 that allotted a vegetarian diet to humans, which was only changed after the flood. The text seems not to suggest he violated the Gen 1 command on vegetarianism. I interpret it as to indicate that Abel understood that only the offering of an innocent lamb could substitute for his sins, pointing forward to the sacrifice of Christ.

    Apparently eating vegetarian is deeply offensive to many of you, so be it.

    That you eat vegetarian isn’t offensive to me. That you twist Scripture in false claims that Christianity teaches that we shouldn’t eat meat, however, is offensive to me.

  331. Paul says:

    @Dalrock

    I never claimed we shouldn’t eat meat.

  332. Novaseeker says:

    I never claimed we shouldn’t eat meat.

    Not technically, no, but you strongly insinuated several times that it was “better” because in your personal view humans were initially created to be vegetarian and will again be vegetarian in the new heaven and earth — which is insinuating that, yes, eating meat is “permitted for some reason after the flood” but that vegetarianism was the original intended way, and the eventual eternal way, and so is therefore “better” than the temporary dispensation of meat eating.

  333. Paul says:

    @Oscar

    “I lack the data to support my argument, but I don’t want to admit that fact”

    You repeatedly lie about me; I do have data, which I described, and which is easy to find, but I find it pointless to enter into a scientific debate, which even among experts is hotly debated.

    I also gave you a direct link to an article in Nature that supports some of my statements.

    As for the negative effects of meat, I will give one pointer, and leave it at that. You can easily look for more if you want:
    https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/the-truth-about-red-meat

    “Some red meats are high in saturated fat, which raises blood cholesterol. High levels of LDL cholesterol increase the risk of heart disease. When it comes to cancer, the answer is not so clear. Many researchers say it does raise the risk, especially for colorectal cancer.”

    “National Institutes of Health-AARP study of more than a half-million older Americans concluded that people who ate the most red meat and processed meat over a 10-year-period were likely to die sooner than those who ate smaller amounts. Those who ate about 4 ounces of red meat a day were more likely to die of cancer or heart disease than those who ate the least, about a half-ounce a day. Epidemiologists classified the increased risk as “modest” in the study.”

    And as is to be expected (which I also clearly indicated earlier): “The meat industry contends there is no link between red meat, processed meats, and cancer, and says that lean red meat fits into a heart-healthy diet. A meat industry spokeswoman criticized the design of the NIH-AARP study, saying that studies that rely on participants to recall what foods they eat cannot prove cause and effect.”

  334. Otto says:

    …you strongly insinuated several times that it was “better” because in your personal view humans were initially created to be vegetarian and will again be vegetarian in the new heaven and earth…that vegetarianism was the original intended way, and the eventual eternal way, and so is therefore “better” than the temporary dispensation of meat eating.

    WWJD.

    God gave us guidelines for living in this fallen world. Those guidelines include eating meat.

    Did Jesus (God in the flesh) live live as a vegetarian, because it was the original intended way? No. He followed the guidelines that he (as God) laid down, which included eating meat.

    Did Jesus recommend this original vegetarian standard to the apostles, his followers, or anybody else? No. He prepared meat for the apostles and gave it to them to eat. Again, he followed the guidelines that he (as God) had laid down for all of humanity.

    If your suggestion is we should strive for a higher standard than Jesus held himself or his apostles to, then you need to rethink your position. It is the height of vanity hubris, and arrogance to promote a lifestyle choice as being more desirable than the choices Jesus made.

  335. Paul says:

    @Novaseeker

    I claimed that eating vegetarian is a healthy option, is in line with the diet we were alloted at creation by God Himself (which is not a personal view, but directly from Scripture: I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.), which humans followed for hundreds of years until after the flood, and which we might also be eating in the new heaven and new earth (which I indicated is speculative based on some texts in Isaiah). I claimed the negative effects of eating some types of meat, as the general benefit of eating more vegetables.

    You’re free to call that “better”, whereas I do not dispute the right nor condemn the habit of people eating meat, which God clearly allows, and even says we should not condemn other people’s eating habits.

    I did not twist Scripture, if so, please show me.

  336. Paul says:

    @Otto

    I would never claim eating a vegetarian diet has direct moral implications from a Christian point of view in this age. I do think that we have a responsibility towards God’s creation in the broadest sense, and I think we can easily agree that eating meat produced by the current meat industry is nothing like how Jesus and His disciples ate meat. That might have moral implications.

  337. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Primates are vegetarian. Humans evolved from primates. We are the result of millions of years of vegetarian evolution. Only in the last few tens of thousands of years have humans eaten meat, which is not much in evolutionary terms.

    I eat fish, but I avoid other meats. I think it’s healthier that way.

    Yes, I believe in evolution, and that the earth is billions of years old, and primates millions of years old. Adam and Eve are symbols, not real people.

  338. Scott says:

    Testi-

    Its not that bad. It has gone through phases like this. It will return to baseline soon.

  339. MKT says:

    ““Some red meats are high in saturated fat, which raises blood cholesterol. High levels of LDL cholesterol increase the risk of heart disease. When it comes to cancer, the answer is not so clear. Many researchers say it does raise the risk, especially for colorectal cancer.”

    This is simply an old lie, that, as the saying goes, appears to become true because it’s been repeated enough. Look at the work of doctors like Paul Saladino, Ken Berry and Ted Naiman (they’re all over YouTube) to read the far superior counter-arguments. Also, there are couple of engineers who are great citizen scientists (Dave Feldman and Ivor Cummins) who did their own analysis of cholesterol and have completely debunked the LDL myth. The “studies” don’t prove what they claim to…in fact, the data tends to point to opposite conclusions when you take away the agendas of vegans and the Grain-Sugar-Industrial Complex.

    I don’t post much here these days, but have sparred with Paul in the past. I’ve always found him to have very weak arguments and generally in support of SJW Lite and semi-“woke” positions. This is no different.

  340. Frank K says:

    Electric cars are the wrong choice. Only the uninformed or dishonest claim that electric cars are a good idea from an environmental standpoint.

    They’re still gonna get shoved down our throats,

  341. Otto says:

    “Some red meats are high in saturated fat, which raises blood cholesterol. High levels of LDL cholesterol increase the risk of heart disease.”

    I would refer you to the book “Know Your Fats” by Mary Enig (she is the researcher that first tied trans-fats to heart disease and was the driving force in getting them banned from food).

    Enig makes the case that saturated fat studies in the past were flawed, because the failed to differentiate between man made saturated fats (like Crisco and margarine) which were high in trans-fats, and natural saturated fats (like beef tallow) that are low in trans-fats. So, they didn’t know if the buildup was due to eating all saturated fats, or due to eating saturated fats high in trans-fats (man made saturated fats–partially hydrogenated vegetable oils).

    Thus, any study of saturated fats that didn’t account for trans-fats (which was all of them prior to the early 2000’s) is invalid.

    Trans-fats most definitely cause buildup in the arteries. That has been proven beyond doubt. Natural saturated fats: the jury is still out, but the evidence is leaning toward it doesn’t. It seems trans-fats were the culprit when it came to saturated fats.

    And that’s not surprising. Hydrogenated vegetable oil was developed in the late 1800’s. Crisco (short for crystallized cottonseed oil) became widely available in the early 1900’s. Because it was cheaper than natural fat, it became a staple of kitchens. Other companies followed suit.

    Prior to 1900, heart disease was considered rare in the USA. In the 20th century it became the most common deadly disease for men. But why?

    The rise of the sale of hydrogenated oils (which are high in trans-fats) in the 20th century and heart disease in men parallel each other. Yea, I know correlation isn’t causation, but on the other hand, there is no causation without correlation.

    There are certainly other contributors to the 20th century’s rise of heart disease, but when it comes to fat, it’s becoming obvious at this point that the culprit where fat is concerned is trans-fats, not all saturated fats.

    BTW, they types of LDL your body produces also matters. Your body produces small, dense LDL and large, fluffy LDL (not the technical terms, but descriptive).

    Small, dense LDL lodges in the walls of your arteries and eventually works its way under the first layer of cells, where it starts to build up. This happens more easily if you are under stress (mental or physical–like from disease or smoking). Small LDL is produced when you eat a lot of sugar/carbs, which is why doctors are starting to explore the connection between heart disease and high sugar/carb diets.

    Large, dense LDL is produced when you eat (natural) saturated fats. They are too big to work their way under the first layer of cells, and thus don’t get lodged inside the artery walls. So, even though saturated fats produce high LDL levels, it is the Large, fluffy (dangerous) LDL.

    I would also refer you to this UCLA study: https://www.uclahealth.org/most-heart-attack-patients-cholesterol-levels-did-not-indicate-cardiac-risk

    They analyzed the colesterol levels of 136,000 patients that had been admitted to a hospital with a heart attack, and found there was no relationship between LDL levels and heart attacks. What they did find was: “Almost 75 percent of heart attack patients fell within recommended targets for LDL cholesterol…” Not a ringing endorsement of controlling your LDL levels.

    Only when the LDL level was below 70 did they see any improvement. Unfortunately, LDL levels that low are associated with a number of other problems such as depression and an inability to fight of infectious disease (LDL also plays a role in your immunity system, because LDL is not actually a cholesterol, it is a transport mechanism that has the ability to scoop up impurities–such as viruses–and transport them out of your system).

    One more factoid form the UCLA study. If your HDL is above 60 and LDL is above 130, they found your odds of being admitted to a hospital with a heart attack was: 0.7%. That’s right less than 1%. And, what type of diet produces that type of profile? One high in (natural) saturated fats and low in sugar/carbs.

  342. MKT says:

    @Oscar
    “The problem with that statistic is that it fails to isolate variables.

    For example, vegetarians are more likely to exercise than meat eaters, and meat eaters are more likely to smoke, drink and overeat than vegetarians.”

    Exactly. This is known as “The Healthy User Bias” and undermines pretty much all of the studies and propaganda vegans use. Think about the early 1990s, when all you heard 24/7 was “fat free” this and “saturated fat is sooo bad” that. The only people brave enough to eat red meat daily then were the same ones who smoked, drank heavily and binged on Little Debbies. And the benefits of meat and animal products go out the window when you combine them with refined carbs and processed foods. In fact, the Standard American Diet (SAD) of high fats/high carbs is the worst possible combination. A low-fat vegan diet is an improvement (thus it “works” for some people, at least temporarily), but most people see the best results on low-carb/keto or even carnivore diets.

    And while it may be anecdotal (because most academics don’t want to support a heavy meat diet), you can find tens of thousands of unsolicited comments and stories all over YouTube, social media, blogs, etc. of people losing massive weight and ending countless heath problems after moving to mostly animal-based diets. This includes many ex-vegans.

  343. Otto says:

    @Paul said: I would never claim eating a vegetarian diet has direct moral implications from a Christian point of view in this age.

    That seems to be exactly what you are saying. You are using scripture to make a moral argument that being a vegetarian is superior to eating meat.

    …I think we can easily agree that eating meat produced by the current meat industry is nothing like how Jesus and His disciples ate meat.

    No we can’t agree.

    If you want to shift the goalposts and now argue that the production methods used today are somehow immoral that’s a completely different argument than the one you have been making in this thread.

  344. MKT says:

    @Otto
    “If you want to shift the goalposts and now argue that the production methods used today are somehow immoral that’s a completely different argument than the one you have been making in this thread.”

    Yep. And if you really have the conviction and money, you can completely avoid “factory farmed” meats. Of course, we can also say crop production methods are nothing like they were in Biblical times with all the pesticides, GMOs, etc. Also, fruits, corn, sweet potatoes and other crops have been bred into large, super-sweet varieties that are nothing like their original forms found in the wild. Maybe we should all just be breatharians.
    https://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/edible-innovations/breatharian.htm

  345. Otto says:

    @MKT said: This is known as “The Healthy User Bias”

    All of the following diets show this bias:

    Vegetarian
    Low Fat
    Mediterranean
    Weight Watchers
    Paleo
    Keto

    These diets couldn’t be more different, yet people on all of them live longer and are healthier. Why? Because, when people are careful about their health in one area of their life, they tend to be careful about their health in all areas of life. They avoid tobacco, exercise, drink less, and use fewer drugs.

  346. Oscar says:

    @ Paul

    You repeatedly lie about me; I do have data, which I described, and which is easy to find

    If you have data that isolates variables, present it. Otherwise, admit you don’t have it.

    but I find it pointless to enter into a scientific debate, which even among experts is hotly debated.

    So, instead you enter an unscientific debate by making assertions unsupported by data that isolates variables. Makes perfect sense.

    I also gave you a direct link to an article in Nature that supports some of my statements.

    I made no mention of your environmental arguments.

    As for the negative effects of meat, I will give one pointer, and leave it at that. You can easily look for more if you want:
    https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/the-truth-about-red-meat

    And, once again, no isolation of variables. Imagine my surprise.

  347. Oscar says:

    @ Paul

    Gotta love this gem from your article.

    But many studies have found similar links. Another one that followed more than 72,000 women for 18 years found that those who ate a Western-style diet high in red and processed meats, desserts, refined grains, and French fries had an increased risk of heart disease, cancer, and death from other causes.

    I wonder if the desserts, refined grains, and French fries might have had something to do with the results.

    That’s why you have to isolate variables.

  348. Oscar says:

    @ Red Pill Latecomer

    Primates are vegetarians.

    Primates are omnivores. Chimpanzees are predators.

  349. SirHamster says:

    This is going to be long, but I respectfully request that you follow along. I apologize for the length of this post. And I apologize for my excessive pugnaciousness the last time we tangled. That was wrong of me.

    I like long form comments from posters I respect. And I appreciate that you own your words.

    You can’t, in good conscience, tell a bunch of brain-washed young people to “prepare for marriage” when they haven’t the first clue what “good, beautiful and true” even looks like, because they’ve never actually seen it.

    That’s why I fully support the books, comics, and video publishing endeavors those two are engaged in. Owen sharing a video of his wife delighting in her baby, or cooking dinner with a smile are part of the good and beautiful.

    And in both men’s streaming, they are providing pointers to it as they answer their audience questions. They aren’t answering the unasked questions, and maybe you think they should provide unsolicited answers there, but that reflects your perspective, not theirs.

    Again, I acknowledge that both men have blind spots. They are talented individuals. They aren’t going to teach much on some fundamental skills, because it came easily for them. That’s an area where an average man who had to struggle for years to develop competence can do better in teaching.

  350. TheTraveler says:

    Poor Greta, as horrible as she is, she’s just an addled robot, programmed by evil people, being used.

    She has that “soft face” I’ve seen on so many women with emotional problems and mrntal illness.

    Physiognamy IS real.

  351. Red Pill Christianity says:

    Speaking of screeches…..

    OffTopic: a younger, less-creative version of Tawanna Brawley got caught by her own family before she ruined actual lives. All she did was gain tons of free publicity on national news from the Left and further divide America.

    The same news outlets that promoted this hoax never apologized and then tried to cover-up the race of the liar.

    But as it turned out… it was a fake hate hoax. Oh no, what a shock! Another fake race/rape attack story! Oh no!

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/virginia-6th-grader-dreadlocks-made-story-up

    I wonder, how many more Tawanna Brawley hoaxes, Duke LaCrosse rape hoaxes, Univ of Virginia fake gangrape stories, or any of the other tens of thousands of such hoaxes do we need before leftwing media stops falling for it? *roll eyes*

    Sigh.

  352. TheTraveler says:

    Re: diet

    Y’all eat what you like, but I’ve found I’m healthiest and my body functions best when I eat a balanced diet–which absolutely includes meat (definitely incorporating beef–the huge protein content probably does something good).

    Several studies found that low carb diets lead to shorter life. Of course, the media can’t help the mandatory virtue signaling, gratuitously adding that it’s still “better” to avoid meat and get protein from plants. Suuuure.

  353. Red Pill Christianity says:

    I would like to add one last point to the vegetarian vs meat-eating discussion. It is humorous to me that vegetarians think they are the “alphas” in any way, just because a very small group of vegetarians managed to get into bodybuilding (at great expense to their health, since they need unbelievable amounts of steroids to gain any real bulk and muscle when compared to meat-eaters).

    Clearly, God is a meat-favoring Lord, as Dalrock pointed out in the Cain vs Abel story; we can take a trip form Genesis to the ends of the New Testament and we clearly see God always intended men’s dominion over all life on Earth includes meat animals. In the New Testament, especially, even Peter is corrected by Christ, using the New Covenant with mankind, that even “unclean meats” are to be consumed.

    Ultimately, this debate reminds me of the whole MGTOW vs Red-Pilled Gamers debate in my humble opinion.

    I am not bothered by vegetarians/vegans, as long as they do not start crazy things, like trying to ban meats or restrict my freedom of food choice (which is high protein and high fat, which means heavy on clean meats and milk). Leave me to do my thing, I leave you to do yours. Let the MGTOWs do their thing, let the vegetarians do their thing.

    I am a very tolerant person. I believe to live in a free society, we have to tolerate things we each dislike and disagree with. That is the only way we make “enough space” for everyone to live in the same country. The reason our country is so bad and unstable now is because The Left has decided they must shut down everyone whom disagrees with them. That is the reason Americans are so polarized.

    As long as vegans, vegetarians, MGTOW, incels, Betas, etc do not try to “rain on my parade” and do not try to cockblock my masculine, unapologetic, and aggressive approach to women, Christianity, and life, I am good. 🙂

    Eat what you like. It is lettuce and kale for you, prime rib and small side of BBQ ribs for me. LOL

  354. MKT says:

    “Several studies found that low carb diets lead to shorter life.”

    And as usual, they’re problematic and appear to be agenda-drivenL
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/diagnosis-diet/201809/latest-low-carb-study-all-politics-no-science

  355. Liz says:

    But as it turned out… it was a fake hate hoax.

    If Media Demand for racism>>>Supply of racism,
    Then racism must be manufactured.

  356. Otto says:

    “Several studies found that low carb diets lead to shorter life.”

    Tell that to type II diabetics.

    Low carb diets have become a miracle cure for people who doctors, just a few years ago, would tell them they had a chronic, progressive, irreversible disease.

    You can barely throw a stick without hitting someone who will tell you they were able to throw away their diabetes drugs by going low carb.

  357. BillyS says:

    Info,

    Then I misunderstood what you wrote. Cain did other things after his exile and they were with his relatives. I thought you were putting forth the BS idea that other humans existed outside of those form Adam and Eve (as many do, even Christians). It seems I was wrong.

  358. BillyS says:

    Dalrock,

    I definitely agree nothing indicates Christians should, let alone must, eat vegetarian, but it appears to have been all that before the Flood given that God told Noah he could now eat all animals too.

    I don’t know that you were arguing the other way, but it is likely God simply burned up all of Able’s sacrifice, though the text does not say for certain exactly what happened.

  359. BillyS says:

    RPL,

    Then you must believe Jesus was “an idea” too, since He was the second/last Adam. Sin came to humanity through one man, not through one idea. Thus it needed to be solved by one man, the one promised at the Fall. Though it would be questionable about what the Fall really was if it is not what was written.

    Ideas have consequences and this is one reason Christians are so powerless today. Many don’t even believe what their own God caused to be written that documents what happened.

    Though you have a lot more faith that I will ever have if you can ever believe the foolishness that is particles-to-people Evolution. Nothing gets better by itself in life. I have worked with computers long enough to know that. Claiming life did is poppycock. Note that the “way it happened” is under constant flux because no one saw that, we don’t see it now, and they have to make up things to keep their creation myth going.

  360. info says:

    @TheTraveller

    Greta has a fetal alcohol syndrome face. It looks like she is deformed in that fashion.

    @BillyS
    I accept your apology. Because I know I misunderstood others in the past and made rash comments.

  361. Paul says:

    @Oscar If you have data that isolates variables, present it. Otherwise, admit you don’t have it.

    You lie again. I already mentioned that before.

    I[t] made no mention of your environmental arguments.

    Yet another lie. It does mention several aspects

    “We use the food-system model and estimates of present and future food demand to quantify food-related environmental impacts at the country and crop level in 2010 and 2050 for five environmental domains and the related planetary boundaries: greenhouse-gas (GHG) emission related to climate change; cropland use related to land-system change; freshwater use of surface and groundwater; and nitrogen and phosphorus application related to biogeochemical flows.”

    “we connect a region-specific analysis of the food system to a detailed analysis of [..] measures of change, including reductions in food loss and waste, technological and management-related improvements, and dietary changes towards healthier, more plant-based diets (Extended Data Table 1).

    “Finally, the scenarios around dietary change include changes towards dietary guidelines and more plant-based dietary patterns that are in line with present evidence on healthy eating

    “The production of animal products generates the majority of foodrelated GHG emissions (72–78% of total agricultural emissions), which is due to low feed-conversion efficiencies, enteric fermentation in ruminants, and manure-related emissions the feed-related impacts of animal
    products also contribute to bluewater use (around 10%) and pressures on cropland, as well as nitrogen and phosphorus application (20–25% each). By comparison, staple crops have generally lower environmental footprints (impacts per kg of product) than animal products (Extended
    Data Table 3), in particular for GHG emissions, but they can have high total impacts because of their higher production volumes (Extended Data Table 2).”

    “Dietary changes towards healthier diets can reduce the environmental impacts of the food system when environmentally intensive foods, in particular animal products, are replaced by less intensive food types. For our analysis, we analysed dietary changes towards diets in line with global dietary guidelines for the consumption of red meat, sugar, fruits and vegetables, and total energy intake as well as to more plant-based (flexitarian) diets that more comprehensively reflect
    the current evidence on healthy eating by including lower amounts of red and other meats and greater amounts of fruits, vegetables, nuts and legumes (Extended Data Tables1 and 5). We estimate that, compared with the baseline projection for 2050, dietary changes towards
    healthier diets could reduce GHG emissions and other environmental impacts by 29% and 5–9%, respectively, for the dietary-guidelines scenario, and by 56% and 6–22%, respectively, for the more plant-based diet scenario
    (Fig.2). The changes are in line with the dietary compo-
    sition of the diets and the environmental footprints of each food group (Fig.1, Extended Data Table1 and Supplementary Table2). Changes in meat consumption dominate the impacts on GHG emissions, while for the other domains the environmental pressures associated with greater
    consumption of fruits, vegetables, nuts and legumes are more important but outweighed by the environmental benefits associated with lower consumption of meat, staple crops and sugar, and a generally lower energy intake in line with healthy body weights and recommended levels of physical activity
    (Extended Data Table6).”

    And, once again, no isolation of variables. Imagine my surprise.

    Scientists would love to be able to do that, but things are not that simple as you repeatedly suggest, and mock me for it, especially if you cannot isolate the subjects of your research. You cannot lock people up and force them only to eat stuff you as a researcher decide, and do that for 30-40 years. And even then, you cannot know the impact of genetics. That’s why in medical research, and epidemiology specifically, you look at large groups of people, and try to find correlations. That’s the current state-of-the-art of medical science for food research. Can you show a single study with isolated variables that show the health benefits of eating meat? I did show several studies included in the article that show the epidemiological negative effects of eating meat. Again, I’m not entering a scientific debate, because that’s impossible in the scope of this blog, it only gives a false illusion of doing science; that why I call it pseudo-science.

    I wonder if the desserts, refined grains, and French fries might have had something to do with the results.

    You conveniently choose to ignore the other statements from that article, suggesting it has no significance to tell anything about the negative impact of meat. I find that dishonest. And you use it to try to discredit me, and make me look like a liar.

    Some of those statements, next to the ones I already gave:

    “After a systemic review of scientific studies, an expert panel of the World Cancer Research Fund and the American Institute for Cancer Research concluded in 2007 that “red or processed meats are convincing or probable sources of some cancers.” Their report says evidence is convincing for a link between red meat, processed meat, and colorectal cancer, and limited but suggestive for links to lung, esophageal, stomach, pancreatic, and endometrial cancers.”

    “Rashmi Sinha, PhD, the lead author of the National Cancer Institute study, points to a large number of studies that link red meat consumption with chronic diseases.”

    “Q: If eating red meat does increase the risk of cancer, what’s the cause?
    A: That’s not clear, but there are several areas that researchers are studying, including:
    * Saturated fat, which has been linked to cancers of the colon and breast as well as to heart disease
    * Carcinogens formed when meat is cooked
    * Heme iron, the type of iron found in meat, that may produce compounds that can damage cells, leading to cancer.”

    “The American Institute for Cancer Research, a nonprofit that focuses on cancer prevention through diet and physical activity, advises no more than 18 ounces of cooked red meat a week. The group recommends avoiding all processed meats, such as sausage, deli meats, ham, bacon, hot dogs, and sausages, citing research that shows an increased risk of colon cancer.”

    “Can grilling red meat cause cancer?
    A: High-temperature cooking of any muscle meat, including red meat, poultry, and fish, can generate compounds in food that may increase cancer risk. They’re called heterocyclic amines (HCAs) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs).”

    But then again, enjoy your BBQ with left-over charred remains! Hey, I didn’t isolate my variables, did I?

  362. Paul says:

    And for those of you who want to enjoy grilled meat in a safer way, follow the tips at the end of the article I linked to : “How can you reduce potential cancer-causing compounds when grilling?”

  363. Paul says:

    One of those tips: “Don’t grill as much meat. Instead of a steak, try a kabob that mixes meat, fruit, and vegetables. Plant-based foods have not been linked to HCAs.”
    I.e. less meat, more plant-based is healthier.

    I want to leave it at that. You can all make your own (informed or not) decisions.

  364. JRob says:

    A coworker and I got into a debate, free range chicken eggs vs. cheap mass farmed eggs. I held an egg is an egg. He claimed free range chickens are “healthy,” and farmed/penned chickens are not. Therefore free range eggs are “better.” They certainly taste better, anecdotally.

    I asked him to define “healthy” and to show me any research or scientific study for evidence of his claim, either “healthiness” of either type of fowl or analysis of their eggs to compare and contrast what’s in ’em.

    He ended with, “You’re just stupid, it’s common sense! I don’t need science! If science told you two plus two equals five you’d believe it!”

    Add Greta into the zeitgeist.

  365. Oscar says:

    @ Paul

    I[t] made no mention of your environmental arguments.

    Yet another lie. It does mention several aspects

    “It”? Why did you feel the need to add a “t” to my sentence? I clearly stated that I – Oscar – made no mention of your environmental arguments. I only addressed your dietary arguments. Why did you feel the need to lie about what I wrote?

    Scientists would love to be able to do that, but things are not that simple as you repeatedly suggest

    I never suggested it was simple. I stated – not suggested – that isolating variables is necessary to establish cause. I never said it was simple. That means you’re once again lying about what I wrote.

    and mock me for it

    I never mocked you. I merely pointed out that – from my very first response – I brought up the need to isolate variables, and that you evaded that topic repeatedly.

    The fact that you feel mocked says a lot more about you than it does about me.

  366. MKT says:

    As for the so-called environmental impact, just skip Paul’s copy/paste stuff and listen to an actual scientist.
    https://www.peak-human.com/post/part-41-dr-frank-mitloehner-corrects-every-myth-you-ve-ever-heard-about-cows-methane-climate

    Trigger warning: lots of debunking. Paul will probably accuse someone of “lying” again. It’s okay. He can enjoy his “Beyond Burger” chemistry lab products and soy lattes with friends, as they discuss the dangers of toxic masculinity and white privilege. Just don’t take away my real meat.

  367. Liz says:

    * Heme iron, the type of iron found in meat, that may produce compounds that can damage cells, leading to cancer.”

    If that’s true, better avoid the Impossible burger (vegetarian).
    They made it so tasty by replicating the heme iron (using spinach, I think).

  368. MKT says:

    “If that’s true, better avoid the Impossible burger (vegetarian).
    They made it so tasty by replicating the heme iron (using spinach, I think).”

    PD Mangan, who eats and promotes a meat-heavy keto diet, says this can be remedied several ways, including donating blood (something I really don’t enjoy). You can easily get your iron levels checked first, though, to see if this is even necessary. This is a lot more objective way of doing things vs. saying “this may lead to cancer, along with practically everything else you ingest.”

  369. Liz says:

    MKT, thanks….I think hemochromatosis (sp?) is most prevalent in males of British descent (sorry Opus). It’s really rare in women (monthly curse and all that). When I worked in a lab we had a couple of folks who would come in to get “bled” regularly.
    Anyway….I love meat (so to speak). I was a vegan for ten years. Think I can say I gave it a try. Once I started eating meat again I felt much better almost instantly. I’ve heard there’s a correlation between red meat and some sort of anti-depressant for women. I believe it.

  370. Don Key says:

    Minesweeper says:
    October 1, 2019 at 6:00 pm
    Lotsa hamsters spinning in here out of control……unusually….

    Gotta love this though, the disconnection from reality, how they just cant see it….

    https://nypost.com/2019/09/25/women-are-struggling-to-find-men-who-make-as-much-money-as-they-do/

    “There are shortages of economically attractive men,” lead study author Daniel T. Lichter tells The Post. Although we like to think marriage is based on love, he says, it “also is fundamentally an economic transaction,” and women want partners whom they can call their equals.”

    If its an economic transaction, why would you need an equal ? If A=B and you have A, you don’t need B.
    ————————————————–
    The problem, my dear Minesweeper is that women think A = (A + 1)

  371. Liz says:

    Since the above study might not be accessible in its entirety:
    “”When we looked at women consuming less than the recommended amount of red meat in our study, we found that they were twice as likely to have a diagnosed depressive or anxiety disorder as those consuming the recommended amount.
    “Even when we took into account the overall healthiness of the women’s diets, as well as other factors such as their socioeconomic status, physical activity levels, smoking, weight and age, the relationship between low red meat intake and mental health remained.
    “Interestingly, there was no relationship between other forms of protein, such as chicken, pork, fish or plant-based proteins, and mental health. Vegetarianism was not the explanation either. “

  372. Anonymous Reader says:

    Liz
    hemochromatosis (sp?) is most prevalent in males of British descent (sorry Opus). It’s really rare in women (monthly curse and all that).

    Until the monthly curse stops, of course. Mangan used to have a link to some papers from years back asserting that excess iron is a contributing factor to circulatory disease. The data are suggestive: women have much lower rates of heart disease / heart attack pre-menopause, but post-menopause the numbers look more like men. Excess iron is stored as ferritin, ferritin levels can be determined via blood test.

    As an aside, iron is needed for growth by both bacteria and cancers. Too much of it available in the human body is probably not a good idea long term.

  373. Anonymous Reader says:

    Open comment to Paul.

    I believe you are the same “Paul” who has engaged in many theological arguments on this site over the last few years. Now you are engaged in yet another wrangle with anonymous men on the internet.

    If you are the same Paul, sometime in the last year you mentioned in a comment here that your wife had “turned off the sex”. If this is you, I suggest that your argumentation is nothing more than a buffer, a displacement from your actual source of trouble.

    If your wife is playing “hide the vagina”, there are ways to deal with that. What is more useful to your marriage, reasserting authority and thus reconciling with your woman, or engaging in endless, pointless wrangling on the internet with anonymous men? At the end of this year, would you rather look back and say “I learned some things that are making this relationship work a little better”, or “Hah! I sure showed those guys!”? Which is better for your long term health? Endless disputation, or regaining control of your own frame of reference and thus bringing your wife back into her proper relationship with you?

    Just asking. I see a lot of heat and little light in your comments, especially since about May.

  374. Paul says:

    @Oscar “It”? Why did you feel the need to add a “t” to my sentence?

    I apologize for that. To me your sentence didn’t make sense, and I thought of a typo. That’s why I enclosed it in brackets.

    But then again in your response, you conveniently leave out other critical parts of my response. You don’t set the rules, but you act if you do, demanding answers to your questions. Same for hammering on the isolation of variables while the whole medical world doesn’t operate that way on researching the impact of food on health. To me that all comes across as dishonest, trying to proof “your” point at “my” expense. You can again hide behind “that tells more about you than me” if you like, but I’m done. I’ve given enough data to support my point (see e.g. how the authors of the Nature article repeatedly state that all the evidence points towards what I’ve claimed). You’re free to debunk that, but don’t tell me there’s no valid data. Or better yet, enter the scientific field and come up with your own proof on the benefits of eating meat while isolating variables. A lot of people would be grateful for that.

    Until then, I’d follow the advice of the nation’s best cancer researchers to stop eating processed meats, to reduce eating of red meat, to avoid excessive grilling of meat, and to increase plant-based foods.

  375. MKT says:

    @Paul
    “Same for hammering on the isolation of variables while the whole medical world doesn’t operate that way on researching the impact of food on health.”

    But it can and such studies do exist. But the studies you point to are less than useless. The meat eaters could (and often do) have a host of other poor health habits, and often they simply use surveys (“how many eggs a week did you eat on average for the last 10 years”) which are just awful guesstimates.

    In reality, what we need are completely controlled studies for the long-term, and those are very rare and difficult. At this point, I’d rather look to both vegans and keto/carnivores online, who strictly follow their protocols and report their results. If you simply just follow some of both on YouTube, you’ll notice one group tends to see their health deteriorate and visibly look worse after a few years…and it’s not the meat eaters.

  376. MKT says:

    If you are the same Paul, sometime in the last year you mentioned in a comment here that your wife had “turned off the sex”. If this is you, I suggest that your argumentation is nothing more than a buffer, a displacement from your actual source of trouble.

    …What is more useful to your marriage, reasserting authority and thus reconciling with your woman, or engaging in endless, pointless wrangling on the internet with anonymous men? At the end of this year, would you rather look back and say “I learned some things that are making this relationship work a little better”, or “Hah! I sure showed those guys!”? Which is better for your long term health? Endless disputation, or regaining control of your own frame of reference and thus bringing your wife back into her proper relationship with you?”

    Sage advice, probably for many here and for different reasons. Arguing anonymously online and thinking you’re “winning” is often a mask for deeper issues, just like many other distractions, addictions, etc. It’s just a way to escape reality and seemingly numb pain…that doesn’t make anything better long term. Don’t ask me how I know..

  377. Oscar says:

    @ Paul

    Same for hammering on the isolation of variables while the whole medical world doesn’t operate that way on researching the impact of food on health.

    Yeah. That’s how we got the “food pyramid”. And you think that’s a good thing?

    You can again hide behind “that tells more about you than me” if you like, but I’m done.

    Promises, promises….

  378. Otto says:

    The numbers around colon cancer and meat consumption was the subject of a chapter explaining the difference between relative and absolute risk in a book about understanding medical statistics I read years ago.

    Vegetarians have a 16% lower incidence of colon cancer. But that’s the relative risk. What does that really mean?

    One in 23 (4.3%) of men will contract colon cancer. That’s the absolute risk.

    Going vegetarian lowers the absolute risk from 4.3% to 3.6%. A difference of 0.7%.

    16% sounds like a huge mitigation of risk. 0.7%, not so much.

    Researchers and lobbying groups (who are both often chasing grant money) tend to use the relative risk, because it is usually a more ominous sounding numer.

    You need to know if the numbers being presented are relative or absolute percentages if you are going to make risk when it comes to your health.

  379. Minesweeper says:

    @Don Key says:” and women want partners whom they can call their equals.If its an economic transaction, why would you need an equal ? If A=B and you have A, you don’t need B.
    ————————————————–
    The problem, my dear Minesweeper is that women think A = (A + 1)”

    So your saying women can’t do maths ? (Said in the style of jordan peterson\cathy newman interview)

    Yes I’m of the opinion (i’m sure liz can let me know if this is true) that women feel entitled to be paid in a relationship, as they view the relationship like men view work. Women view work like men view hobbies, so they will do what they enjoy and for much less.

    Liz, thats a great find, red meat for women reduces depression, did they look for men ?

    cheers

  380. Anonymous Reader says:

    Forget Greta, here is one of AOC’s constituents in New York, coming up with the next great idea. Watch Rep. Cortez’s reaction…Bestest troll of the year? You decide!

    #EatTheBabies

  381. Ranger says:

    I suppose that’s ONE way of eating meat while saving the environment.

    Other way is just to read Joe Saladin (if I remember his name correctly, the farmer featured in “the omnivore’s dilemma”)

  382. Mountain Man says:

    Ranger,

    I think you might be referring to Joel Salatin, but I could be wrong. Haven’t read “Omnivore’s Dilemma” yet, though I have read a couple of other Michael Pollan works.

  383. Oscar says:

    We are never beyond hope. ~ AOC

    Will we be “beyond hope” in 12 years? If not, then what’s the rush? And, if murdering babies in the womb, and dissecting them for parts is moral and good, why is eating them evil?

    Oh, wait. Neither AOC, nor any of her acolytes said eating babies was evil. Maybe that’s what she meant by, “we are never beyond hope”.

  384. Liz says:

    Heh, Minesweeper, I’d only heard of the one study but after looking into it apparently there have been many (apparently it’s true of everyone…not only women):
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/animals-and-us/201812/the-baffling-connection-between-vegetarianism-and-depression

    Neither AOC, nor any of her acolytes said eating babies was evil. Maybe that’s what she meant by, “we are never beyond hope”.

    Or, hope might just be the name of her cat.

  385. Otto says:

    @Liz,

    The fact that vegetarians are more likely to be depressed doesn’t mean it’s the food.

    It’s possible that the personality types that are attracted to vegetarian diets are more just likely to be more depressed in general (regardless of diet).

    I have seen some info indicating that very low fat diets are linked to depression.

  386. Liz says:

    It’s possible that the personality types that are attracted to vegetarian diets are more just likely to be more depressed in general (regardless of diet).

    That’s true, Otto. Most of the studies attempted to isolate variables, but some variables are easier to isolate than others. I thought the overview of the 2018 Paris study pretty interesting:
    In a 2018 study of 90,000 adults, French researchers examined the impact of giving up various food groups on depressive symptoms among meat eaters, vegans, true vegetarians, and vegetarians who ate fish. The incidence of depression increased with each food group that was given up. People who had given up at least three of four animal-related food groups (red meat, poultry, fish, and dairy) were at nearly two-and-a-half times greater risk to suffer from depression.

    I did try this on myself, long ago, and had similar results. Not unlike oral contraception (again, in my experience, and other anecdotal experience from friends/acquaintences), you often don’t know the real impact until you go off of it and realize how much better you feel.

  387. purge187 says:

    “#EatTheBabies”

    I was about to say that I’d be all for eating the ones born to Liberal parents, since that would probably be mercy-killing, but Liberals don’t have babies because, you know, overpopulation and stuff.

  388. Liz says:

    There’s also, (not to get on a tangent) a definite link between depression/anxiety and oral contraception for women. So combine vegan diet and birth control pills…kind of a recipe for mental issues.
    As a side note not related to vegetarianism (since this is also a father’s site, and it might help someone) there’s a big connection between taking reglan, aka Metaclopromide (a type of laxative…recently discovered to improve breast milk production), and serious depression. Combined with post-partum issues it can lead to suicidal ideation. Just throwing it out there as a public service announcement since I know a person who committed suicide pretty recently who was on the stuff.

  389. Novaseeker says:

    People who had given up at least three of four animal-related food groups (red meat, poultry, fish, and dairy) were at nearly two-and-a-half times greater risk to suffer from depression.

    I did try this on myself, long ago, and had similar results. Not unlike oral contraception (again, in my experience, and other anecdotal experience from friends/acquaintences), you often don’t know the real impact until you go off of it and realize how much better you feel.

    Yes. As Scott has written above, in Orthodoxy we do this fast several times a year, and for around 7 weeks prior to Easter. It’s definitely leads to changes psychologically, but during the fasting periods that is mitigated by increased liturgical/community and other private devotional practices that go along with the fast. Without that …. I can imagine it could get pretty bleak after a time.

  390. Red Pill Christianity says:

    Offtopic: Speaking of screeching women….

    Disney to ‘Spellcheck’ Scripts for Gender-Bias Using AI Technology

    Breitbart.com/entertainment/2019/10/09/disney-to-spellcheck-scripts-for-gender-bias-using-ai-technology/

    No wonder the real Star Wars fans have bailed out of the “post-1980s” series (except for the “side stories” like Solo and Rogue One, which were actually awesome!).

    But the Force Awakens-last Jedi and (likely) Rise of Skywalker series have crap and vomit thus far.

    How about Disney focus on making SW “main series” movies that do not suckass for a change? Got to laugh.

  391. Red Pill Christianity says:

    Meanwhile in the REAL world of the freezing cold, feminist hell that is Sweden:

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/10/09/sweden-sex-crimes-have-tripled-since-2014/

    Since feminists claim only 10% of rapes get reported, that means rapes in Sweden must have increased by at least 27,000%, not 300% as police stats show.

    And of course, while the country burns down and becomes a literal 3rd world hellhole, good news! The Swedes have their priorities straight! They are focusing on forcing men, under penalty of law, to pee sitting down! No, seriously.

    Little Great: get your Burka ready, sweetie. It is gonna be “warming” inside your burka for sure! LOL 😀

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