Some questions for American Airlines.

Maybe a reader with a Twitter account can run some or all of these past the American Airlines Twitter account.  Regarding the recent viral video:

  1. Does American Airlines take domestic violence seriously?
  2. Why was the victim ejected from the plane along with his abuser?  Does American Airlines blame him for being abused?
  3. Is the Miami-Dade PD statement reported by the Miami Herald accurate in asserting that the police were not immediately called and the flight crew declined to make a statement?
  4. Did American Airlines book the abuser on another flight before the police could locate her?
  5. Assuming the Miami Herald report is accurate, was the flight crew’s decision not to give a statement after witnessing domestic violence inside an American Airlines cabin in line with American Airlines corporate policy?
  6. Would American Airlines expect the flight crew to have handled the situation any differently if the sexes were reversed?

Edit: According to the Business Insider article, American Airlines confirmed that they ejected both the abuser and her victim from the plane:

An American Airlines spokeswoman told Business Insider in an emailed statement: “Prior to departure from the gate on Sunday at Miami International Airport, two passengers who were traveling together were involved in a dispute.

“Law enforcement was requested, and both passengers were removed from the aircraft.

“We thank the American crew who worked quickly to diffuse the situation. Their actions resulted in a safe environment for all of our passengers.”

This entry was posted in Domestic Violence, Duluth Model, Turning a blind eye. Bookmark the permalink.

169 Responses to Some questions for American Airlines.

  1. Zarathustra says:

    The more I think on this the more it bothers me. A man was assaulted in public by a woman and no one did anything. Even in the golden age of the “patriarchy” if a man had done this to a woman in public there would have been consequences/

  2. Anonymous Reader says:

    Not finding much about this beyond the usual

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2019/07/24/wife-hits-husband-laptop-during-argument-american-airlines-plane-miami/1821715001/

    Just boilerplate. Although it appears the laptop was his, not hers, and she was unhaaaaappy because he was “looking at other women” on social media.

    Now, why would he do that? It is a mystery.

  3. thewestisweak says:

    🤣🤣👏👏 It’s a wonder. Just like the handful sexual deviants and mentally ill (trans) have seized control of the west, women and children now shame the men blatantly with no fear of consequences. We are witnessing the fall of Rome.

  4. feeriker says:

    American, like every other U.S. passenger air carrier, treats its paying customers with less respect or dignity than an agricultural transport company treats the cattle it moves to the slaughterhouses. I doubt that American Airlines would even pay any attention to such a tweet, but even if it did and actually deigned to respond, the response would be obvious intelligence-insulting, saccharine bullshit that would fly in the face of every customer’s actual experience at the airline’s hands.

  5. Anon says:

    Even in the golden age of the “patriarchy” if a man had done this to a woman in public there would have been consequences.

    Oh, even if a man did this to another man, or a woman did this to another woman, there would have been consequences.

    This is the only possible combination of assailant/victim that could carry no consequences, to the extent that the assailant knew in advance that she is above any consequences.

    It is something that also cannot survive globalization, as the norm in the other 94% of the world (i.e. outside of the Anglosphere) is something closer to common sense.

  6. Pingback: Some questions for American Airlines. | Reaction Times

  7. Dalrock says:

    Thanks tenari

  8. Tom C says:

    A corporation is only going to do what the law requires and society expects it to do. If the police would not arrest a woman for domestic violence in this situation and a prosecutor would not press charges then no domestic violence has occurred, even if the same actions would be considered domestic violence if a man did it.

  9. Frank K says:

    It is something that also cannot survive globalization, as the norm in the other 94% of the world (i.e. outside of the Anglosphere) is something closer to common sense.

    Yet the GloboHomo elites are successfully pushing their agenda almost everywhere. For example, there was a Gay Pride Parade in Istanbul last month.

    When I lived in Mexico City, the homosexual community was invisible. Fast forward to the present, they are just as much in your face there as in the US. The feminist agenda is also powerful in the land of the Aztecs. 49% of their congress and 51% of their senate is female. Mexico actually has Affirmative Action laws that force parties to nominate women. I expect that their next president will be a woman.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2018/07/11/women-won-big-in-mexicos-elections-taking-nearly-half-the-legislatures-seats-heres-why

  10. UmYeah says:

    Simply put, pussy lips rule everything nowadays. If the Shoe Bomber had been a female 15 years ago, he wouldn’t be in ADX SuperMax Florence, but SHE would-be shoe bomber would have a book deal, free of a criminal record and probably running Al Qaeda instead of Zawahiri (better optics even in the increasingly femcentric Islamic world m

  11. Opus says:

    Is it correct to refer to the type of violence here witnessed as ‘domestic’? That there was a relationship of a domestic nature between the man and the woman is surely no concern of any business; the event did not occur in the home of the people concerned. We should then see it as an altercation with some rather ineffectual and thus not over-serious blows. It is an event such as one sometimes witnesses and which no man, no self-respecting man that is, takes seriously for to do so would be to acknowledge his weakness and to acknowledge female power which would be a matter of male shame (except one presumes at a Homosexual Pride Parade where ordinary morality – a modern day Carnaval – is turned on its head). Had the man wanted to deal with the woman he could have given her six months in hospital with just one or two thwacks. It has always been the case that men are held to a different standard than woman where violence is involved and men in receipt of attempted female violence are seen in some way as having failed the woman such that the violence is justified – as if it were self-defence – he was looking at younger slimmer women for chrisake – the rapist. I am put in mind of the event in Herodotus where the now widows of military sailors on removing their pins (which held up their dress) stabbed to death the sole survivor of the event that had killed their husbands. How dare this man show his face when their husbands lie dead! The Athenians did not charge or even reprimand the women. I am also reminded of a woman, Ruth Ellis, the last woman to be hanged in England for murder (or indeed anything else). She was a blonde-preoxide ‘moll’ of some gangster type and shot her lover who I seem to recall was cheating on her. She swung for it but her execution is seen as the event that led to the abolition of the death penalty though I see that our new female – check, Indian – check, cute – check, working secretly for the Israelis and rightly previously sacked by the Maybot – Home Secretary wants (post Brexit ) to bring back hanging for very bad men (women are not bad). Even though Ellis had murdered a man there is something awful about having to hang a woman especially one who was boffable and if you are peroxide then you are boffable. Is it not also the case that the hanging of the woman who sheltered in D.C. in 1865 Wilkes Booth after the murder at the Ford Theater is still a matter of much contention. I suppose it is the same sort of thinking which enables women to murder in the womb their own children – the man was not good enough. Judges always go out of their way to avoid reprimanding females even those in contempt of court. I once had a client who if I recall correctly had married a butch lesbian who on inviting her lesbian lover to live with them the two lezzers jointly set about beating-up the poor man. He reported the matter to the police and told me (which is I suppose why I was seeing him) that the police just laughed at him for being so pathetic. Can’t remember what happened then.

    I don’t think this has much to do with Feminism but everything to do with normal male-female relations.

  12. Hescominsoon says:

    What you see in this video is most assuredly not normal relations. The man could not fight back or he would be arrested and jailed. The woman who was clearly the aggressor has no further actions when at the minimal physical assault charges should have been filed. This is the SJW/feminist world we live in…not the former golden ages. the day women were allowed to vote was the end of our country…folks just obviously didn’t see it then.

  13. Clemsnman says:

    What this incident and many others like it actually shows is that feminists don’t believe the garbage they spew. Men and women are different, no one worries about a man getting beat by a woman because men are bigger and stronger (usually).
    The natural inclination of all people is to protect the weak in a fight, which everyone instinctively figures is the woman. Everyone expects the man to be stronger, to be in charge. It’s really what women want.
    They just want to reserve the right to bitch about it.

  14. Heresolong says:

    Opus says:
    July 26, 2019 at 5:00 am
    Is it correct to refer to the type of violence here witnessed as ‘domestic’?

    I don’t think there is any definition of DV that means “happens inside the home”. I could be wrong though. Do you have a citation of some sort for that?

  15. Anonymous Reader says:

    Opus

    Is it correct to refer to the type of violence here witnessed as ‘domestic’?

    In terms of US law, yeah, that’s what it is. Or what it would be if the sexes were reversed.
    A married couple has a disagreement in a restaurant that turns into a shouting match, leading one party to toss a roll or contents of a water glass at the other — that’s DV and if the restaurant staff calls police someone ***cough*** likely will be arrested.

    The guidelines for “domestic violence” under the Duluth protocol are quite broad.

  16. Anonymous Reader says:

    What this incident and many others like it actually shows is that feminists don’t believe the garbage they spew

    That is an easy conclusion for a man to reach. I’ve thought that myself. However, it’s not necessarily true. Rationalization can enable people to believe two contradictory things at once, and women have what we call the “rationalization hamster” always ready to run on the exercise wheel.

    Women in general and feminists in particular have no problem believing that “domestic violence is a gendered issue”, i.e. it’s always the man who is the aggressor; while at the same time acknowledging that women can be in the initiators of domestic violence, yet blaming the man for her actions.

  17. feeriker says:

    “The day women were allowed to vote was the end of our civilization

    FIFY

  18. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Female violence on Broadway: https://nypost.com/2019/07/24/faye-dunaway-fired-from-broadway-bound-tea-at-five/

    Oscar-winning actress Faye Dunaway has been fired from the Broadway-bound play “Tea at Five” for creating a “hostile” and “dangerous” environment backstage that left production members fearing for their safety, several sources told The Post.

    Onstage at the Huntington Theater in Boston, where “Tea at Five” was trying out, Dunaway was playing Katharine Hepburn. Backstage she was channeling Joan Crawford, the deranged, abusive film star Dunaway played in the 1981 movie “Mommie Dearest.”

    The July 10 performance was canceled moments before curtain because Dunaway slapped and threw things at crew members who were trying to put on her wig, sources say.

    Enraged at the cancellation, Dunaway began “verbally abusing” the crew. They were “fearful for their safety,” said one source.

  19. feeriker says:

    Men and women are different, no one worries about a man getting beat by a woman because men are bigger and stronger (usually).

    What no one wants to acknowledge is that the reason why most men won’t defend themselves against an assault by a woman is because EVERYONE knows, if only in a visceral way that they cannot acknowledge, that even the physically weakest man 8s easily capable of permanently maiming or killing even the strongest woman. Even men who not only don’t care about women’s wellbeing, but actually want to see them get their just comeuppance still are reluctant to employ the force necessary to defend themselves against feral women because they know that the damage they will do – and not because they will regret having used the necessary force, but because they know that all of society will whiteknight on behalf of the feral she-animal.

    I predict that as women become more and more violently feral and unrestrained, any remaining self-imposed restraints men exercise will evaporate, legal consequences be damned. Women should fear for the future; it’s going to be an ugly one for them.

  20. Frank K says:

    The day women were allowed to vote was the end of our civilization…

    I frequently wonder how long it will be until our civilization collapses, as in the most basic pillars of civilization, the infrastructure everyone takes for granted, ceases to work (at a 1st world level) and we have bare shelves at the grocery stores like say Venezuela, with widespread lawlessness. I used to think that was at least 50 years out, but given the breakneck speed of demographic and legal change I fear it could happen much sooner. maybe as soon as 2030-40. Climate change acolytes yammer that the world will end in 12 years, and it might very well, but not in the way they are expecting it to end.

    It is often predicted that whites will be the minority in the US by 2050, however given the rate of 3rd World immigration, both legal and illegal (which I expect will dramatically accelerate once the Dems regain full control) I think it will happen well before that year, and when it does that is when the great unraveling will happen.

    Kooks like AOC and Omar will be the new normal in Congress. Everyone who isn’t white will be demanding :”reparations”. Property and savings will be confiscated and the country will simply stop working, we won’t be able to feed ourselves. There will of course be angry demands that evil white people fix everything, a la South Africa (very similar to Dalrock’s Law). Unlike with South Africa, there will be no one to bail us out of our incompetence with foreign aid and investment, if anything, it will be payback time as the rest of the world will seek revenge against the US.

  21. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    What no one wants to acknowledge is that the reason why most men won’t defend themselves against an assault by a woman is because EVERYONE knows, if only in a visceral way that they cannot acknowledge, that even the physically weakest man 8s easily capable of permanently maiming or killing even the strongest woman.

    Yesterday, a package arrived for me. It contained two cases of bottled water. The doorwoman (yes, my building has doorwomen) went to get it. I heard her complaining in the storage room that it was too heavy.

    I went and saw her pushing the package with her foot, unable to lift it. So I went and picked it up. She was impressed that I could do so.

    I’m not that strong. I’m in my 50s and don’t do strength training. This woman is big and tall (at least 200 pounds), and at about 25 years younger than me. Yet she couldn’t lift the package, and I had no trouble with it.

  22. Oscar says:

    @ feeriker

    I predict that as women become more and more violently feral and unrestrained, any remaining self-imposed restraints men exercise will evaporate, legal consequences be damned. Women should fear for the future; it’s going to be an ugly one for them.

    I’ve said this before. In the less civilized parts of this world, I’ve watched men beat their women openly in the street. The locals – including the women – just walked by with a look on their face that said, “serves her right”.

    That’s where we’re headed.

  23. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Came across a news story about a homeless naked man stabbing 3 people in Seattle. The police interview features two cops. One cop is a woman. The other cop appears to be gay.

    The gay cop is wearing a Star Wars strap around his neck. The woman cop is wearing makeup. Ever fewer straight white guys in today’s police forces.

  24. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Nick, that woman is 49, yet looks great for her age. She can easily marry a thirsty Beta 15 years her junior.

    I’m sure this is a publicity stunt, her wanting to marry her dog. She hopes the story will go viral on social media and reignite her career. Maybe get her some TV interviews, followed by paid gigs — TV reality shows, be a judge on a talent competition, some TV hosting, etc.

  25. Frank K says:

    I’m sure this is a publicity stunt, her wanting to marry her dog. She hopes the story will go viral on social media and reignite her career.

    The article mentions that she was a “page 3 model” when she was younger. Page 3 models are women who pose topless on the third page of the UK tabloid newspapers like The Sun. This means that she was very attractive in her youth, a 9+, but she had no other skills, other than performing in porno flicks. I doubt she could reignite that “career” as there is no shortage of younger women willing to pose for page 3. But yeah, it’s definitely a publicity stunt. Maybe she’s hoping to become an Instagram “star”, though the competition for that is also stiff.

  26. Oscar says:

    @ Red Pill Latecomer

    Came across a news story about a homeless naked man stabbing 3 people in Seattle. The police interview features two cops. One cop is a woman. The other cop appears to be gay.

    The gay cop is wearing a Star Wars strap around his neck. The woman cop is wearing makeup. Ever fewer straight white guys in today’s police forces.

    The female is with the Fire Department. I’ve never liked Seattle, but that used to be a matter of taste. Historically, Seattle was one of the safest big cities in the USA. Now, it’s a garbage-strewn, literal shit-hole of drug addiction, vagrancy, mental illness, and the violence that follows.

  27. Frank K says:

    Ever fewer straight white guys in today’s police forces.

    A lot of cops in my neck of the woods appear to be ex-Marines (yeah, I know, once a Marine. always a Marine). But yeah, I could see most cops in woke places like Seattle being either homos, POCs or Women,

  28. Frank K says:

    There is a scene in Seattle Is Dying, a town hall meeting where citizens complain about crime and vagrancy and a City Councilor (or was it the mayor) just laughs at them, with a “it sucks to be you” look on his face, which infuriates the crowd. Truly disgusting.

  29. BillyS says:

    AR,

    That is an easy conclusion for a man to reach. I’ve thought that myself. However, it’s not necessarily true. Rationalization can enable people to believe two contradictory things at once, and women have what we call the “rationalization hamster” always ready to run on the exercise wheel.

    Part of this is due to discarding Western Philosophy (Christianity-based) for Eastern Mysticism. Many in the East believe quite contradictory things. Listen to Ravi Zacharias (sp?) for comments on this. (It will be either you or the truck if you are both in the street at the same time – though many ignorantly dispute this even now.)

  30. Jesus el loco says:

    thewestisweak says:
    July 25, 2019 at 5:37 pm
    🤣🤣👏👏 It’s a wonder. Just like the handful sexual deviants and mentally ill (trans) have seized control of the west, women and children now shame the men blatantly with no fear of consequences. We are witnessing the fall of Rome.

    This is why I am glad for both barbaric Islam and mentally deranged “transmania”. These horrendous ideologies are the only avenue left to restore sanity to Western society and wake up misandric Churchianity. Nebuchadnezzar was exactly was Israel needed, and later the Roman legions. Paul instructed that the unrepentant who called himself a believer eventually be brought before the Church and xast out so that Satan might teach him his error. What to do when the Church has become an unrepentant corrupt Jezebel led institution who will NOT cover her head in the presence of God as women are instructed to do, and did for 2K years? Send Churchianity to the Satan of Islam and atheism to die by the millions as was done throughout history.
    I cheer anytime a male athlete wins at a woman’s only competition. I grin whenever Islam takes over a town and sets up parallel courts were women are abused. Let it burn, let it all burn to the ground until all the soft compromising men in pulpits, and all the whores in the pews learn to not worship YHVH and Baal. Perhaps then we will get a man willing to say the Truth to the sheep, especially the female sheep.
    This message is approved by my wife of 38 years because, she better approve it or else God will hear my complaint against her. She does not fear me, She does however fear God and knows that she is my servant and as Peter instructs, she is to call me master. I don’t dream of Jeannie. I have my jeannie.

  31. BillyS says:

    I will never rejoice in evil. It may be necessary or a logical outcome, but it is never something to cheer for. Quite a bit of Scripture behind that principle.

  32. Doc H. says:

    Hi Dalrock don’t know if you saw that Joshua Harris of I kissed dying goodbye fame is separating from his wife.

  33. Dylan Sexton says:

    Tom C says:
    July 25, 2019 at 9:59 pm

    >A corporation is only going to do what the law requires

    you’ve got it backwards, tom

  34. westray says:

    Imagine if a woman had stepped in to restrain this cow. A woman with some kind of combat/martial arts training who could have put her in some kind of efficient arm lock. The cheers of “If men can’t do it then let women do it” would have been overwhelming. “Where have all the men gone” etc.

  35. Anonymous Reader says:

    Imagine if a woman had stepped in to restrain this cow.

    Imagine if a unicorn came prancing down the aisle pushing the drink cart, and carried her away up the rainbow. One is as likely as the other. Because women are not “men with boobs”.

    Here is an abstract of a study done in 2004. I doubt this research could be replicated now unless privately funded, but the results are strong.

    Title:
    Gender differences in automatic in-group bias: why do women like women more than men like men?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15491274

  36. Anonymous Reader says:

    Here is another more in depth discussion of the same study.

    https://news.uns.purdue.edu/html4ever/2004/041213.Goodwin.gender.html

    Women’s in-group preference is about 4:1. They are 4 times more likely to side with another woman than with a man, in the abstract sense. This explains how entire departments such as Human Resources become all-female.

    There’s a evo-psych Just So Story to explain this, too.

  37. westray says:

    Thus, ‘imagine’

  38. John Liljegren says:

    Dalrock,
    I am a fairly new reader of your blog. This is completely unrelated to this particular post, but I wasn’t sure where to write and post this. I have a request.

    I think several examples of situations or problems that lend themselves to a variety of possible “solutions” would help new readers better understand the underlying conflicting beliefs.

    I’d love it if, for each of several examples in man-woman relationships, you would then explain that the Feminist Imperative would say to do A; the egalitarians would say to do B; the complementarians, C; Dalrock, D; etc.

    I also have no real understanding of ideas such as game and frame, so again, examples would really help me, at least, get to the point of saying, “Oh, now I get it.”

    These might be put together on a single web page to which you could link occasionally to help new readers understand better.

    Thanks.

  39. why do women like women more than men like men?

    Because all women are on Team Women all the time, no exceptions. Also women don’t “like” other women. Common cause is not the same as affection.

  40. Minesweeper says:

    @Kentucky Headhunter says:”Because all women are on Team Women all the time, no exceptions. Also women don’t “like” other women. Common cause is not the same as affection”

    As D says, women, entertain their frenemies.

  41. Peter says:

    Just a minor comment but a lot of people on this thread seem to believe people don’t know already women are the more violent gender with familial relationship. This is and has been confirmed for decades by any research into it. It’s not that women are getting more violent it’s just we more and more are condoning it and more and more punishing me for self defense.

  42. American says:

    Any of you ever read about a female named “Beulah George ‘Georgia’ Tann?” She went into government social services work and started a lesbian relationship with one of her co-workers. Running into problems with her employer, she moved to Tennessee and started another lesbian relationship with a powerful female judge there named Camille Kelley.

    These two feminist lesbian monsters spent the next three decades destroying the lives of thousands of children by trafficking them to celebrities and wealthy Jewish buyers in New York and California. They even stole children from their parents using legally questionable and outright illegally kidnapped some destroying records as they went. Some were sold to pedophiles. Up to 500 children were not “easy to adopt” and died, mostly through starvation and neglect. Many of their bodies have never been found. Tann charged buyers between $750 and $5,000 per child. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/38235660/georgia-tann

  43. Oscar says:

    Off Topic: Josh Harris finally admits the truth. He’s not a Christian.

    View this post on Instagram

    My heart is full of gratitude. I wish you could see all the messages people sent me after the announcement of my divorce. They are expressions of love though they are saddened or even strongly disapprove of the decision.⁣⁣ ⁣⁣ I am learning that no group has the market cornered on grace. This week I’ve received grace from Christians, atheists, evangelicals, exvangelicals, straight people, LGBTQ people, and everyone in-between. Of course there have also been strong words of rebuke from religious people. While not always pleasant, I know they are seeking to love me. (There have also been spiteful, hateful comments that angered and hurt me.)⁣⁣ ⁣⁣ The information that was left out of our announcement is that I have undergone a massive shift in regard to my faith in Jesus. The popular phrase for this is “deconstruction,” the biblical phrase is “falling away.” By all the measurements that I have for defining a Christian, I am not a Christian. Many people tell me that there is a different way to practice faith and I want to remain open to this, but I’m not there now.⁣⁣ ⁣⁣ Martin Luther said that the entire life of believers should be repentance. There’s beauty in that sentiment regardless of your view of God. I have lived in repentance for the past several years—repenting of my self-righteousness, my fear-based approach to life, the teaching of my books, my views of women in the church, and my approach to parenting to name a few. But I specifically want to add to this list now: to the LGBTQ+ community, I want to say that I am sorry for the views that I taught in my books and as a pastor regarding sexuality. I regret standing against marriage equality, for not affirming you and your place in the church, and for any ways that my writing and speaking contributed to a culture of exclusion and bigotry. I hope you can forgive me.⁣⁣ ⁣⁣ To my Christians friends, I am grateful for your prayers. Don’t take it personally if I don’t immediately return calls. I can’t join in your mourning. I don’t view this moment negatively. I feel very much alive, and awake, and surprisingly hopeful. I believe with my sister Julian that, “All shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.”

    A post shared by Joshua Harris (@harrisjosh) on

    The information that was left out of our announcement is that I have undergone a massive shift in regard to my faith in Jesus. The popular phrase for this is “deconstruction,” the biblical phrase is “falling away.” By all the measurements that I have for defining a Christian, I am not a Christian. Many people tell me that there is a different way to practice faith and I want to remain open to this, but I’m not there now.⁣⁣

    If only others like him, who don’t believe what the Bible says, would do likewise.

  44. Novaseeker says:

    If only others like him, who don’t believe what the Bible says, would do likewise.

    There will be more of that in the years ahead, as the social pressure increases on everyone to “affirm” things that are inconsistent with Christian teaching in a very basic way.

    I expect what will happen is a combination of (1) the evangelical Protestant communities split over the sexual issues (by which I mean everything from the LGBT stuff to men/women issues, sex issues in general), between a mostly older community of “traditional morality” churches and a mostly younger one of “affirming/welcoming” churches, (2) people like Harris leaving altogether because they know that the “affirming/welcoming” isn’t really Christian, and so they lose their faith in Christianity altogether rather than play-acting, (3) more moves in the mainline towards becoming openly affirming (e.g., the Methodists finally being flipped, etc.) and (4) “don’t ask/don’t tell” being the norm in the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

    As for Harris himself, it’s pretty common for people to walk away from religion when they are getting divorced. It’s not smart, but it’s not uncommon either. Some of these people come back and some don’t. For some people it’s kind of a last straw in a longer series of issues in which they have slowly backed away from this or that teaching of the church, where the unbiblical divorce is really the proverbial straw that breaks the camel’s back. I think there are a good number of people in the pews on any given Sunday who are one life crisis away from walking away from the church to be honest — they have already walked away on so many other issues while technically remaining there, that it’s really one crisis that could push them away completely.

  45. Scott says:

    Joshua Harris “deconstruction” as he is calling it, is very real. And as Novaseeker points out, there is no way to know where the pointer on the roulette wheel of his life will end once the dust settles.

    I was never a mega church author of popular books. But I went through what would still be considered a somewhat public divorce in our small church. I was the choral director, and church family counselor at the time. My ex-wife and I were fairly popular. We worked a lot with the youth. We were like the cool, just a few years older than the teenagers couple that people told their kids to be like.

    When my marriage ended, I was completely demolished by it. People took “sides.” I lost my counselor position, I grovelled in front of the congregation “repenting” for being such a clueless dolt who was not servant leading right.

    I even received a call one night from one of the younger kids (like 12-14ish). I could hear him holding back tears, and I could hear his mom in the background “go ahead, ask him”

    He wanted to know how if such a beautiful, strong, Christian marriage like mine could fall apart, what was the use of believing in it? Why bother trying? “Please don’t do this” he pleaded. “Work it out.” I don’t remember what I said. But in my mind I was like “beats me, kid.”

    For the next decade I descended into the world, going through my own deconstruction. My life did not make sense without her, without that life, without those pillars of a worldview that propelled me, and drove me to excellence. I had to know, is Christ real? Am I a Christian? All of it was up for grabs.

    I have landed in this marriage, this church, with these beliefs, and I am way weaker because of it all. Maybe Nova is also right in that if I go through it again, I will walk. I am only being honest.

    May Josh Harris figure it out and find peace. This is why God hates divorce.

  46. Sven says:

    Women have become feral

  47. Opus says:

    I had, of course, previously, never heard of former Pastor, Josh Harris and I am surprised to learn that Divorce could shake ones faith. Could it be, that in Harris’ case, he had been strutting around Emperor’s new-clothes style bragging of his invincible suit of Christian Armour, only to discover his nakedness in what he seems to imply is his own ending of his marriage. If so all I can say is that he has misunderstood entirely what Christianity might be about. Christianity does not turn people into super-heroes of the Captain Marvel type though it certainly has its martyrs.

    The Instagram post reads like a lot of alligator tears as well as as a secular Credo where he effectively says ‘I believe in feminism, I believe in homosexuals and so on’. Christianity is for sinners and not merely the morally superior. Is there not something incongruous between the manly looking individual in front of the awe-inspiring mountain and the grovelling prose beneath.

    Am I perhaps being too hard on him?

  48. Lost Patrol says:

    This is a stand alone sermon/homily. This one sentence.

    I think there are a good number of people in the pews on any given Sunday who are one life crisis away from walking away from the church to be honest — they have already walked away on so many other issues while technically remaining there, that it’s really one crisis that could push them away completely.

    “…they have walked away on so many other issues while technically remaining there…” is a slow motion train wreck that some of us are caught up in. Or maybe all of us in one way or another. If you are old enough, think about what your church did or talked about 30 years ago. Now think about what it is doing and talking about right now. If it is one of the churches that has some kind of bookstore or gives out books for a donation, look at the books on offer.

    The times, they do change.

  49. Oscar says:

    @ Novaseeker & Scott

    Josh Harris’s story is a textbook case of what happens when Christians ignore Biblical requirements for church leadership. I wrote more about that here.

    https://snowgoosechronicles.blogspot.com/2019/07/he-kissed-faith-in-jesus-goodbye.html

  50. purge187 says:

    “This is why I am glad for both barbaric Islam and mentally deranged ‘transmania’.”

    I tend to view the Muhammedan “refugees” in Europe in the same way as the Assyrians or the various “-ites” who harassed Israel in the Old Testament. They serve a valuable purpose in that they help cleanse those societies and help get them back on the right track.

  51. 7817 says:

    Scott

    He wanted to know how if such a beautiful, strong, Christian marriage like mine could fall apart, what was the use of believing in it? Why bother trying? “Please don’t do this” he pleaded. “Work it out.” I don’t remember what I said. But in my mind I was like “beats me, kid.”

    I had that feeling too, when everything that the church told me about how to have a successful marriage failed. It’s a pretty delicate situation when this happens to a guy, and it’s easy to see how men fall away. If they lied to me about marriage, what else did they lie about?

    This is why groups like Warhorn anger me so much. You have to be willing to burn down the lies you’ve accepted in order to actually walk in faith in God after experiencing the failure of those beliefs. It doesn’t matter how strong your faith is if your faith is placed in a lie.

    For the next decade I descended into the world, going through my own deconstruction. My life did not make sense without her, without that life, without those pillars of a worldview that propelled me, and drove me to excellence. I had to know, is Christ real? Am I a Christian? All of it was up for grabs.

    Like you, there was a lot that had to be reevaluated. The scary thing is once a person starts reevaluating one part, the whole edifice starts crumbling, and you’ve got to try to figure out what’s worth saving.

    Do you really think you are weaker now though? I’m less tied to the church as an institution now, but I think my own personal faith is stronger since I’ve realized i can’t depend on others for it.

  52. JT says:

    I wonder if the Harris divorce is a result of the deconstruction, not the cause.

  53. JT says:

    First, Jesus said all the faith we need is the size of a mustard seed. Our faith will always be fairly small, but God will sustain it. Scott, I think what you experienced is a “refining by fire.” Hopefully the bad and temporary was burned up, and what is lasting remains.

  54. Liz says:

    One of the drawbacks to living in this area…internet is sketchy and I couldn’t view the video at all.
    That said:
    Edit: According to the Business Insider article, American Airlines confirmed that they ejected both the abuser and her victim from the plane
    (snip)
    “Law enforcement was requested, and both passengers were removed from the aircraft.

    Reading the above, AA satisfied their obligation here. Law enforcement was called, both were evicted (not up to the airline staff to determine culpability…their job is to get the plane in the air in as timely a fashion as safely possible). The abused can press charges with the authorities if he wants to.

  55. Oscar says:

    @ JT

    I suspect the divorce is a result, not the cause. On the other hand, they may both be caused by some other factor.

    Harris was thrust into celebrity guru status at 21, then megachurch pastor at 30, long before he possessed the Biblical qualifications to serve as a Deacon, much as a pastor of thousands. He resigned after a church scandal that included child sexual abuse, NOT by Harris, but Harris and other pastors decided (un-Biblically) to handle it internally, instead of reporting it to the police.

    There’s more, but suffice to say that a whole lot happened to shake his faith, most of which wouldn’t have happened if Christians had followed the Biblical requirements for elders in Timothy and Titus.

    I’m not blaming other Christians for Harris’s falling away. I’m pointing out that his story serves as a perfect example why Christians shouldn’t elevate 21-year-olds to levels for which they couldn’t possibly be prepared.

  56. American says:

    HarrisJosh was wrong about many things that appears to have included marrying a serial fornicator who engaged in adultery. So instead of making better decisions to get better results, he decided to follow up his bad choices with the worst decision of his entire life. HarrisJosh is like a bull in a china closet. But he’s been learning the hard way for a long time now and that looks to continue into eternity as a damned apostate unless he finally comes to his senses.

  57. American says:

    To be clear, on the apostasy issue if he genuinely repents and turns back to the one true creator God he will be wholly forgiven.

    The problem is that many making the assertions he’s now making never do that. They immerse themselves in the carnal pleasures of this world; smoking dope and/or getting drunk, engaging in sexual immorality with other people, and doing a lot of fruitless philosophizing with like-minded lost souls. Next thing you know he’s on the Joe Rogan podcast talking about his “journey” into apostasy, high as a kite, with old pothead Joe so empathetic and supportive of his decision to abandon the Gospel.

    Oh, he’ll have to live with the consequences of his actions in this life at the least even if he does ultimately repent. Yet still God will wholly forgive him if he does genuinely repent and turn back to his Creator [emphasis added]. The “second death” is not for the genuinely repentant who stumble in this fallen world and then find their way back. But tick tock, life is short and the clock ticking.

  58. feeriker says:

    I’m less tied to the church as an institution now, but I think my own personal faith is stronger since I’ve realized i can’t depend on others for it.

    That bolded part is very important to internalize, yet it’s also terrifying to contemplate. One of the purposes of the church as a body is for believers to strengthen each other in their faith and knowledge of the Word, and to hold one another accountable for such. But when it seems that entire body has “gone off the rails,” what then? The thought of being “the one sane inmate inside the asylum” can easily lead to a sense of hopelessness and despair, no matter how strong one’s faith is.

    @Oscar

    There’s more, but suffice to say that a whole lot happened to shake his faith, most of which wouldn’t have happened if Christians had followed the Biblical requirements for elders in Timothy and Titus.

    I often wonder what would happen if churches actuay were to straighten up, fly right, and go back to strict adherence to Scriptural requirements for church leadership. Honestly, it think it would throw most of them into crisis in terms of lay leadership, as most of those who are unqualified biblically who hold positions of leadership couldn’t be replaced by anyone who WAS qualified.

    What if 80-plus percent of the congregation consists of “blended” families involving more than two divorces? That’s unfortunately not an unlikely scenario today.

  59. Oscar says:

    @ feeriker

    Hey, it couldn’t be worse than the church in Corinth. Right?

  60. BillyS says:

    I am so grateful that I still have my firm relationship with God in spite of all I have gone through. Many things have whacked my life, including the end of a long-term marriage (with ironic assistance from many in churches I have been at). I have deep questions about “why”, but I refuse to reject him. I could no more stop breathing than to stop believing in Him.

    He is God and I am not, in spite of how smart I think I am (and can be at times). I am very blessed to have been able to talk with Him throughout my life and have that deep connection, in spite of being extremely alone.

    I would easily get in the face of someone like Josh Harris and call him an idiot. His convictions were never deep if even divorce can cause him to leave them.

    I pray you don’t face it Scott. That is why you must have a deep connection with Jesus. The storms will come, though how they appear can vary. You must build a foundation that can last even if the worst comes.

  61. BillyS says:

    Scott,

    That was meant as somewhat encouraging. I do not mean it as an attack in case it comes across that way.

  62. white says:

    But despite this and his very honest admission he was teaching heresy, all the pastors in their 40s now will nonetheless defend his work with their lives

  63. BillyS says:

    I think there are a good number of people in the pews on any given Sunday who are one life crisis away from walking away from the church to be honest — they have already walked away on so many other issues while technically remaining there, that it’s really one crisis that could push them away completely.

    Good quote to draw out Lost Patrol. He did the same thing, though I doubt he would admit it fully. God didn’t perform to his expectations, so it is God that must be a failure, not his expectations.

    I can’t reconcile everything I am going through with what I read in the Scriptures, but that is irrelevant. I am definitely not God nor anywhere close. Too many today have bought the BS that they can think as well as God and are suffering for it.

    Oscar,

    I still hold that the idea of rejecting modern dating (including hookup culture) is quite a proper thing to do. It became a fad though rather than a deep heart conviction. It is also not a master solution, since the corruption of the system is the problem, not skipping the entire dating scene. I have still yet to hear anyone here defend dating as a concept, though many disparage his book.

    I was following his idea long before he wrote about it, though I don’t remember if I ever fully read his book. He is just another modern fallen Christian celebrity. Just like people in the Middle Ages were dirt poor but built massive expensive cathedrals, we too want something that is glitzy to follow, even though we forget the core truths.

    Interesting blog post. I agree that we need proper Biblical leadership, but we also need to be open to those God sends to correct us. Most leaders today, no matter who they serve under, are not open to any true correction.

    JT,

    I am pretty sure his divorce is a result of who he married, not his own beliefs. She fills out the “look” of the rebellious woman and staying married in that case is almost impossible.

    Faith as a mustard seed means it massively grows, it doesn’t remain that tiny or it is not true faith. (Responding to your other point.)

  64. BillyS says:

    White,

    But despite this and his very honest admission he was teaching heresy, all the pastors in their 40s now will nonetheless defend his work with their lives

    He says he was teaching heresy, but that doesn’t mean all he was teaching was truly that. This is a major error many fall into when they give into the “cares of this world” and such. They negate the whole message, not their own stupidity and foolish desires.

    Dating is not great, so figuring out an alternative is worthwhile even if a given messenger sucked.

  65. Oscar says:

    @ BillyS

    I still hold that the idea of rejecting modern dating (including hookup culture) is quite a proper thing to do. It became a fad though rather than a deep heart conviction. It is also not a master solution, since the corruption of the system is the problem, not skipping the entire dating scene. I have still yet to hear anyone here defend dating as a concept, though many disparage his book.

    I’ve never read Harris’s book, and therefore have no opinion on his book, or the ideas he presented in his book. Nor have I ever offered an opinion on his book, or the ideas he presented in his book.

    He had no Biblical business setting himself up as a teacher to millions at 21, or a pastor to thousands at 30, and Christians had no Biblical business taking him seriously in either role.

  66. white says:

    @BillyS

    Except he didn’t come up with an alternative. His “courtship” is the exact same thing as dating, with the exception being the man has to jump through countless hoops set up by the woman to be deemed worthy by her, and the woman gets to delay marriage as long as she likes while convincing herself she is faithful to some grand divine plan.

    It’s the same chivalrous/feminist script we see in the real world world everyday, Harris repackaged and sold it to the masses under the guise of Christianity.

  67. Frank K says:

    What if 80-plus percent of the congregation consists of “blended” families involving more than two divorces? That’s unfortunately not an unlikely scenario today.

    My personal observation is that many people gravitate towards “seeker friendly” churches because they fall into the above category. They yammer about their close relationship with Jesus Christ while living in illicit marriages, sleeping with someone else’s spouse. Of course it’s easier to find a “church” that says you aren’t doing anything wrong than actually turning away from sin. Didn’t some women on one of those dating shows defend her carousel hopping as OK, because “Jesus loves her”?

    At our Church one of the Deacons will interview a couple seeking a church wedding. One of the first questions asked is “are you living together?” If they are, then they are told to stop cohabitating and to not have sexual relations until they are married. One of the Deacons told me that couples are often indignant when asked and refuse to comply. The Deacon then calmly tells them that they can’t get married in the church. Of course, they just find another church that not only doesn’t ask that question, it also doesn’t ask if either of them is divorced (which is a common show stopper in our church as well)

  68. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Didn’t some women on one of those dating shows defend her carousel hopping as OK, because “Jesus loves her”?

    The response to that is John 8:11, in which Jesus tells the adulteress, “Go and sin no more.”

    Jesus forgave the adulteress. But the commanded her to stop sinning. Carousel riders like to forget that part.

    The Catholic Church warns against the Sin of Presumption, which is deciding to sin, on the presumption that God will forgive.

    If you Google “the sin of presumption,” many sites come up.

  69. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Wikipedia is deleting sci-fi authors considered to be right-wing: https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2019/07/wikipedia-editors-attempt-to-delete-sci-fi-author-pages-they-deem-right-wing/89376/

    Various sci-fi authors are facing page deletions on Wikipedia after various Left-wing editors nominated the pages for deletion on the grounds of the authors not being notable, or for their fanbase being “bigoted”, and “racist”, and filled with “hatred”. There’s currently a battleground on the author pages of Wikipedia where certain editors are attempting to erase an internet checkpoint for the authors due to disliking what little they’ve gleaned of their politics.

    This is so Stalinesque. So Orwellian. People are being “disappeared.” Removed from newspapers. Air-brushed out of photographs. Or in this case, the modern equivalent — the internet.

  70. Anonymous Reader says:

    Wikipedia is deleting sci-fi authors considered to be right-wing:

    This should not be a surprise. Wiki has been SJW converged for a while. The long march leftward will continue until Wikipedia collapses.

    Here is an alternative. Donations to it are welcomed.
    https://infogalactic.com/info/Main_Page

  71. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Google promotes Wikipedia. The Wiki page is often the first entry on a Google search. Sadly, a lot of idiots out there think Wiki is objective truth.

  72. Anonymous Reader says:

    Google promotes Wikipedia. The Wiki page is often the first entry on a Google search. Sadly, a lot of idiots out there think Wiki is objective truth.

    So?

  73. Frank K says:

    This is so Stalinesque. So Orwellian. People are being “disappeared.” Removed from newspapers. Air-brushed out of photographs. Or in this case, the modern equivalent — the internet.

    Definitely 1984, but with consumer goods shipped directly to your home, and no chocolate ration.

  74. Dale U says:

    I can’t reconcile everything I am going through with what I read in the Scriptures, but that is irrelevant. I am definitely not God nor anywhere close. Too many today have bought the BS that they can think as well as God and are suffering for it.

    The above quote from BillyS shows an incredibly important attitude. Without this attitude, I will likely only “submit” to God, on issues where I agree with him.
    Submission to God is a requirement for salvation; see Rom 10:9-13. The likely majority in “Christian” churches, who do not have this attitude, seem unlikely to be saved. Matt 7:15-23 describes the false prophets, and those who are not saved, but will say to Jesus on that day, “Lord, lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?” And Jesus will reply, “Away from me you evil doers. I never knew you.”

    May God’s will be done… and may I have the maturity to submit to his will.

  75. Scott says:

    The Catholic Church warns against the Sin of Presumption, which is deciding to sin, on the presumption that God will forgive.

    Yep. I was actually told this after the fact: I knew when I was with him I was sinning. I also knew I would have to crawl back to the church and ask for forgiveness. I also knew they would have to forgive me. It was worth it.

  76. BillyS says:

    White,

    Courtship should be different. It was what ruled (in one form or another) in much of human history. It does give power to the father though and that is simply not permitted today. Not that most fathers, even Christian ones, are even of the right mindset to do anything. They are legally shackled from doing anything even if they were however.

    People used his “no dating” as an excuse to “date under another name.” I oppose maligning the opposition to dating it at least implies, when people fail to acknowledge the huge flaws in a dating system and how it led to much of the mess we have now.

  77. white says:

    @BillyS

    Yes but the courtship you’re describing now is not the same courtship concept that Harris introduced. The concept he introduced carries with it the same “huge flaws” that modern dating has too: specifically, serial monogamy in an attempt to maximize hypergamy. This is not a case of people misusing Harris’s concept.

  78. Hmm says:

    One of the important elements of the sin of presumption (not capitalized, since I’m not Catholic) is that many people think that if they sin they can repent as they will. The problem is that sin is a form of slavery and affects our will as well as our actions. Even when the time comes when we know we should repent, we might find ourselves unable or unwilling. Or worse – God brings our lives to an end before that day.

    And Paul talks about those who are saved in the end, but as through fire, with none of the treasure in heaven that Jesus encouraged us to store up there.

  79. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    The BBC addresses racial and gender imbalance in classical music: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/26/classical-music-white-male-orchestra-proms-female-bme-chineke

    Across the cultural landscape, the light of truth is working its way through the past. Historical inaccuracies, unattributed contributions and long-lost gems – all victims of male whitewashing – are being restored and reinstated. …

    I welcomed the BBC’s declaration last year that there would be a 50/50 gender balance in all new commissions of contemporary composers by 2020. I wholeheartedly agree with David Pickard, director of BBC Proms, when he says the target is “a crucial statement for gender equality by the arts industry”, and I am actively working with him to effect more change. But more must be done.

    I felt something must be done after 35 years of performing, and becoming too used to being the only black person on stage

    This year’s season includes work by 29 female composers, out of a total of 160. If we add ethnicity into the mix, the numbers become even more stark: of the BBC’s 13 new commissions for the season, only one is by a black female composer and one by a black male composer (at least they’ve got gender equality). …

  80. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Another article, with more whining along the same lines: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/jul/18/pale-male-and-stale-does-modern-classical-have-a-gender-problem

    Modern classical and electronic music is still dominated by stars who are largely “pale, male and stale”, leading industry figures have warned, after learning of a major new compilation album featuring only two works composed by women. …

    Composer Hannah Peel tweeted: “Biggest names in modern classical and electronic? Makes me feel a bit sick in 2019” and then listed female artists who were not on the record …

    Pale, male, and stale. Is that not a racist and sexist? Should the hater who wrote this article not be banned from social media?

  81. Novaseeker says:

    Yep. I was actually told this after the fact: I knew when I was with him I was sinning. I also knew I would have to crawl back to the church and ask for forgiveness. I also knew they would have to forgive me. It was worth it.

    Yes, and in my view, almost all Catholics/Orthodox who are under 35 (not just now, but even when we were that age) will make that same decision for the same reason, as will older single people.

    The piper still needs to be paid however. Whether it is purgatory or, as Orthodox sources allude to, a river of fire or toll houses or whatever metaphor you wish, sins do stain us in a way that requires purification post-death prior to entry into full communion with God, even if the eternal punishment for these sins is remitted by God during our lives. So we get a reprieve, for certain, but we still pay for our sins in the end.

    Is it worth it? It’s a very hard decision for a male human under say 45-50 to make, I think. Most of these are strongly driven to fuck. That is going to lead to some kind of sin, regardless. It’s inevitable other than for genophobes. The key question is what approach leads you into a marriage more quickly and securely (in terms of being a good, durable marriage) than not. For many, the path of fornication until finding that person is still the shortest path in the current scenario. It involves sin, and for that sin a price will be paid in terms of the need for purification from the impact/effect of that sin on one’s soul, but it may avoid a longer life of incessant sexual sin at the same time.

    That’s not advice, by the way — my advice would be to avoid all sexual sin at all costs, period. However, I am not so naive as to expect that most are capable of that.

  82. Opus says:

    @Red Pill Latecomer

    The BBC are the largest commissioner of new music in the world – about one hundred and twenty pieces a year. Commissioning women is the equivalent of deciding that the LA Lakers or the Chicago Bulls should have an equal number of players whose height is under five foot nine and then to wonder why the standard of play has declined. Whenever I see a woman’s name or for that matter someone whose name is not obviously English, I now switch off. That may be unfair on the composer in question but I do not see why I should volunteer for ideological indoctrination or be forced to pretend as I would have now to do that I was truly listening to the best when I know the prime criteria for the commissioner is not ability or even track-record but genitalia or skin colour. Had women had a track record of producing great music one would be entitled to take a different view but we judge from performance to ability and no amount of cheer-leading can hide the fact that in terms of writing music women are nowhere. The women they do trot out as ‘great composers’ are always either married to, the sisters of, or the mistresses of great male composers. This is then the banana republic version of classical music. If it is argued that men have oppressed women then the question to be raised would be why women have been unable to overcome that barrier when many great and lesser composers have overcome far far worse – I won’t bore you with examples but for those who know what about Kaikoshru Sorabji or Harold Truscott! Why also would any concert promoter wish to do such a thing and when in fact men have always bent over backwards for women – let us not forget that since the founding of the first conservatoires in the 1820s women have always been attendees thereat and indeed winners of compositional prizes through the Nineteenth century! The conclusion has to be that the women the BBC are promoting are from the bargain basement store of compositional ability. I can also not forget many years ago asking a young female at a conservatoire to bring me the end of term piece that she had written, She did so. I looked at the piece and turned and to her and said: ‘this is not music, you have just put a lot of crotchets and quavers anywhere’. She promptly confessed that that was exactly true. Yikes – and that was then.

    I used to subscribe to a new music magazine – Boosey & Hawkes then house magazine – entitled Tempo. Looking back through my old copies I can see in the news section a list of upcoming performances of new music. I would say the balance was one female to about every thirty men. This ratio pretty accurately reflects the bell curve at the extreme end of intelligence and is thus exactly what one would expect!

    What will happen and is probably already happening is that men are now being discouraged from going into music. Expect then a lot of rather a dull but perhaps pretty female-penned music. I have noticed that these girl composers are very good at choosing poetic titles for their efforts – such as – from a week ago, the opening piece in this years Proms “Long is the journey, short is the memory”. They (the BBC) know it is nonsense because these female commissions are always for very short pieces – say eight minutes in length or for say just for a capella choir. In other words nothing particularly demanding. They know they dare not ask for more for that would merely produce empty seats and low audience ratings figures. My prediction – so as to achieve greater equality – will be that we will soon be told that certain great music was actually written by women or that Mozart was actually black and indeed this has already happened! Expect also that we will be informed that certain great composers were actually female.

    The question I would like to ask the Director of The Proms is ‘what evidence would you accept in support of the notion that women are not as capable as men of composition’. I know that he would be unable to answer that question which would show that the belief in female compositional ability is not based on any evidence but on ideology. I also predict that it will not be long before news slips out that some well-respected piece of music penned by a woman was actually done by some man who was hoping to get his leg over with the woman when the woman was too lazy or incapable of fulfilling the commission. Expect also, that like dentists, female composers will drop out when their looks in their mid-thirties begin to fade.

    May I also add before the haters start hating on me that I knew two female composers back-in -the-day and I had no problem with either of them but they were not being informed that they were the next Beethoven, were not being promoted beyond their abilities and had no illusions of being better than they were.

    My Father always said that the BBC was a disgusting organisation (he would have known some of its employees) and I have come to realise that he was right.

  83. Liz says:

    At least 35 servicewomen have had to be airlifted from Royal Navy ships after discovering they were pregnant, it has emerged.

    That over the past 14 years. We have had “at least” 35 servicewomen on ships “discover” they were pregnant too in the past 14 years. Also, the past year.
    Also….most likely just last month.
    (the number was 3,840 in 2016)
    https://stream.org/deployed-us-navy-pregnancy-problem-getting-worse/

  84. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Opus: since the founding of the first conservatoires in the 1820s women have always been attendees thereat and indeed winners of compositional prizes through the Nineteenth century

    George Gissing’s The Whirlpool (1897) features a female character who plays the violin at local events. She imagines that someday she will be a great violinist. She marries a well-to-do man, partially because he can support her efforts. She eventually sleeps with another man, who claims he can advance her musical ambitions.

    Gissing was a very red-pilled writer. A naturalist, as opposed to a romantic. His novels are considered insightful sociological profiles of life in late 19th century England. But he’s a great psychologist, as well as sociologist.

    Many of his novels focus on the pursuit and effects of money, the lack of money, how money affects the pursuit of marriage, or the inability to marry, infidelity, ambition, etc.

    His The Odd Women (1893) is considered an early feminist novel, in that it’s sympathetic to women, yet it has a lot of red-pilled insights.

  85. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    I just remembered, in The Whirlpool, after the female violinist marries, she has a son. This forces her to give up the violin. A few years after her son’s birth, she’s grown to resent her husband and son for forcing her to give up publicly performing the violin. She imagines that she’s been cheated out of a brilliant career, and all the glamour and foreign travel such a career brings.

    Her husband tries to please his wife by encouraging her to resume public performances. It’s then that she meets a sleazy promoter who promises her great things. He claims that it’s all “who you know,” and that he can arrange the bookings and support she’ll need to attain greatness. But she must sleep with him first, which she does.

  86. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Everything that Gissing wrote was going on in the 1880s to 1890s. What’s going on now, was already happening then.

  87. Opus says:

    @Red Pill Latecomer

    Your writing about the fiddle player put me in mind of Nicky Benedetti who played the Tchaik last night at the Proms. Nicky has really good looks and she and German cellist Leonard Eichenbroch became an item – the golden couple. Then they split, pretty publicly – and Eichenborch seems now to be her beta-orbiter. Nicky desperately wants to be as good as Menuhin or Oistrakh. I asked my cellist friend how good she was as she sometimes (before doing them in the glare of London publicity) tries out pieces with our local orchestra. Good, he says, but nowhere near the standard of the great fiddle players. The sad thing for her is that she must know that had she been born short and fat rather than with porn star looks and figure that she would never have achieved her present fame yet she wants to be taken seriously. When her looks go and she collides with that invisible wall (and she is now thirty one) what then? There are so many younger fitter girls coming through.

    Get me into artist promotion.

  88. Disillusioned says:

    This explains it all.

  89. Anna says:

    Is anyone else getting the sense that Josh Harris’s self-flagellation LGBLTQWERTY+++ posturing is just a prelude to flat-out declaring himself gay?

  90. Frank K says:

    That’s not advice, by the way — my advice would be to avoid all sexual sin at all costs, period. However, I am not so naive as to expect that most are capable of that.

    Or even willing, especially as so many, even alleged Christians, don’t see fornication as a problem, because “they’re saved” and “Jesus loves me”. It also doesn’t help that our mass media glamorizes sin, and portrays someone who chooses to be chaste as deprived, if not mentally ill.

  91. Liz says:

    Is anyone else getting the sense that Josh Harris’s self-flagellation LGBLTQWERTY+++ posturing is just a prelude to flat-out declaring himself gay?

    Raises hand.
    Is there a betting pool?

  92. Scott says:

    Disillusioned

    You’re thinking about it all wrong

    You see, the designers of that cannon and it’s trigger mechanism were probably men

    They engineered it so an average woman would not have the upper body strength to engage it.

    Therefore, the patriarchy exists, and so does the reason for feminism to exist.

  93. Scott says:

    As we see here, the US Army solves the problem by simply having a woman be the battery lieutenant, so all she has to do is yell “fire” while subordinate males actually work the cannons in this 13 gun salute for 82d Airborne change of command.

  94. Lost Patrol says:

    Pregnant women on warships and evacuation of same.

    An MoD spokesman said: ‘The welfare of our personnel is of the utmost importance.’

    It wasn’t all that long ago that what was of the “utmost” importance to the Royal Navy was winning sea battles. Everything was sort of concentrated on that idea. Personnel welfare was probably somewhere around number 9 on the list, (which was way up from last place that held sway all during the 1800s and previous centuries).

  95. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    As we see here, the US Army solves the problem by simply having a woman be the battery lieutenant, so all she has to do is yell “fire” while subordinate males actually work the cannons in this 13 gun salute for 82d Airborne change of command.

    Same with construction road crews. I read a while back that women are entering construction, because it’s high-paying union work. And that men are digging in the ditch, while the women are holding the flags, waving the cars past.

  96. RichardP says:

    1. I’ve not read Josh Harris’ book. But – if he based his argument on scripture, if Josh was basically just letting scripture speak, then his age at the writing is irrelevant.

    2. All kids “believe” whatever – because mom and dad said so – up until their own critical thinking skills kick in. When those critical thinking skills kick in, a period of disquiet follows, while the young adult examines the evidence and then chooses to believe or not based on their own examination. Everybody goes through this, regardless of the subject, and usually at some point in the early twenties. Some later.

    There are many stories of this happening, from Marjoe Gortner to Carlton Pearson to Lisa and Michael Gungor, and now to Josh Harris (google the names for the stories). All had great empires that they lost.

    3. Shannon Harris (Josh’s wife) is a musician of some note. Google and see. Red Pill Latecomer talks above about George Gissing’s The Whirlpool (1897) features a female character who plays the violin at local events. She imagines that someday she will be a great violinist. This also is Shannon’s story. She set aside a burgeoning music career to support Josh. Now that the kids have grown, she is bringing her muse back to life and exploring with gusto whether there is an audience for her music.

    4. There is much material on the Internet regarding Shannon. My impression is that she has gone, or is going, gay. That may explain Josh’s words. Or Josh’s words may indicate that he is going, or has gone, gay himself.

    5. That this happens on a regular basis – kids too young to know what they are talking about hoisted onto the world stage and inundated with an adulation they are ill equipped to deal with – underscores what I, and others, have been saying consistantly: What Did God Actually Say??? Focus on that, and help others focus on that.

    When examined closely, the Marjoes and the Carltons and the Lisa and Michaels and the Josh and Shannons did not reject what God actually said. Their words and actions demonstrated that they were rejecting what they had been told that God said. And, when their own critical thinking skills kicked in, they discovered that God said nothing of the sort. Upthread, folks admit that some who go through this eventually find their way back. I’ll wager that those who do are those who keep looking until they find out what it was that God actually did say, put their trust in that, and rejoin the fellowship of the body of Christ.

    This simple logic sequence can help folks immensely in discovering that the focus, indeed, must be on answering the question “What Did God Actually Say”?

    a. Premise: God exists
    b. Premise: God causes x, y, and z

    c. Experiment: We have proven that God does not cause x,y, and z;
    d. Conclusion: Point (a) is false. God does not exist.

    Point (d) is a fallacy. The fact that Point (c) is true says nothing about whether Point (a) is true.

    Most conversations about God are of the Point (c & d) sort. Many folks attribute things to
    God that God never said he was responsible for. Therefore, folks who correctly point out
    that God is not responsible for these things have not really addressed the question of
    whether God exists. They have simply addressed the correct reality that God does not do
    what these other folks say he does.

  97. RichardP says:

    Michael’s plea, in the middle of his darkness. Listen to his words. The plea that is the only correct response – as God says my strength is made perfect in [your] weakness 2 Corinthians 12:9

  98. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Resources for women in construction: https://blog.capterra.com/resources-for-women-in-construction/

    The construction industry needs us, ladies. As Procore detailed in a blog post earlier this month, the construction industry is facing a personnel shortage, and Millennial women are poised to meet the need. They point out that women in leadership roles tend to improve decision making and are good for not just for the construction industry, but for the United States’ GDP as a whole.

    But they also note that women are still facing barriers in the construction industry. The author notes, “For women to make inroads in construction, however, many companies have to make changes… or example, women have fewer networking opportunities, role models, and sponsors at higher levels of organizations. There is also evidence that women are treated differently when it comes to promotions.”

    Luckily, there are a host of resources that are dedicated to helping women succeed in construction. …

    The article features a photo of a woman of color, wearing a hardhat, and studying a blueprint. She looks so professional in that hardhat!

  99. Lost Patrol says:

    And that men are digging in the ditch, while the women are holding the flags, waving the cars past.

    I recently happened upon a highway repaving crew. A dozen or more men were walking along with shovels and rakes alongside three gigantic machines that were melting the existing asphalt with jet engines, then regrading it behind (clever. probably invented by some dudes). The air temp was very high, the road temp was very high, and the jet engine exhaust temp was no doubt very high. This operation blocked half the highway for several miles, but they had planned for that with signs along the side roads warning cars to “wait here for pilot car” that would lead them around it by turns.

    Yep. Air conditioned pilot car driven by the only woman present. She was wearing a reflective vest and hard hat, so there is that.

  100. RichardP says:

    Clarification: Shannon Harris is Josh Harris’ wife. She is embarking on a music career. I said you could find info on that on the internet.

    However, you need to search on Shannon Bonne That is the name she is using “professioally”.

  101. Anonymous Reader says:

    However, you need to search on Shannon Bonne That is the name she is using “professioally”.

    That is called a “clue” by Sherlock Holmes, and a “Tell” by any poker player.

  102. Pingback: Roundup | Eternity Matters

  103. Minesweeper says:

    @Opus says:”@Red Pill Latecomer

    Your writing about the fiddle player put me in mind of Nicky Benedetti who played the Tchaik last night at the Proms. ”

    RPL, just feel the difference in quality, Jascha Heifetz is in another league in comparison.

    As compared with :

    Same piece, prob same class of instrument.

  104. RichardP says:

    I think “Bonne” is her maiden name. Could be interpreted in many ways. Could just be that she doesn’t want folks to think she is trading on Josh’s “fame”.

    Some things for folks to consider: Josh was born and raised in Oregon. Shannon was born and raised in the Washington, D.C. area. Josh up and moved his family to Vancouver, B.C. a number of years ago. Josh would be used to the rainy, dreary weather. Shannon, not so much. Her family is on the East coast. Josh’s is on the West coast. Women usually want to be near their extended family. Some folks can become very depressed, suicidal even, with the rainy, dreary weather of the Pacific Northwest. Not wanting to put words in Shannon’s mouth, but these are issues that may be in play here, along with others. From what I see on the Internet, Shannon appears to be back on the East Coast.

  105. Frank K says:

    The article features a photo of a woman of color, wearing a hardhat, and studying a blueprint. She looks so professional in that hardhat!

    A year ago we had golf ball sized hail in our neighborhood, which thrashed our 20 year old roofs. There has been a steady litany of roofers doing what they do since then. I don’t recall seeing a single woman among them.

  106. Novaseeker says:

    From what I see on the Internet, Shannon appears to be back on the East Coast.

    Your constant contrarianism on this blog is tiresome and boring. You’re so predictable.

  107. Frank K says:

    The construction industry needs us, ladies.

    I seem to recall a bridge that collapsed in Florida, causing a few deaths. I seem to recall that it was designed and built exclusively by women.

  108. @John Liljegren that blog exists: https://therationalmale.com

    There are three books with audiobook versions by its author Rollo Tomassi.

  109. Robert Mando says:

    having worked on a highway crew, i can verify that the women take ALL of the easy jobs and leave all of the back breaking work to the men.

    which simply means that the men never get a chance to take a breather while the pour ( whether asphalt or concrete ) is going on. there is also no place for men on the crew who are getting older and can no longer maintain the pace. nor is there anything for a crewman who has been injured to do.

  110. locustsplease says:

    Having done manual labor for 20 years in the first 17 i saw about 5 women working. I have seen more lately doing mowing or landscaping even multiple in the same day. But you have to consider these are all young college age girls who probably are doing it half to mix it up learn a skill and half to meet the man she wants. There is zero chance a woman is going to do any lifting even light for a lifetime.

    In 2019 how many can change a tire? If they are on a jobsite they are eating all the cake jobs a guy might have worked up to. I had a job and went to the corporate office for something one of the ladies i dealt with said i see yourguys paychecks you make more than we do. Like putting in 65 or 39.9 hrs a week is a mystical pay wall. Even when i was blue pill that was simple people take pay cuts not raises for easy jobs.

  111. Frank K says:

    It seems that there are more cases of deranged airline passengers than ever before. Not a week goes by without a story of some nutjob who tries to open a door in flight (which can’t be done) or who starts a fight on the airplane and has to be restrained.

  112. @Dalrock
    In addition to the double standard,
    there’s a brain injury/stroke aspect to this.

    In the YouTube description posted by Julia Scorupco,
    we learn that a flight attendant was sent home
    because of injury/injuries:

    https://imgur.com/Tpbb5YZ

  113. “On the way, a member of the cabin crew says: ‘You’re going to get charged with assault.'” ~Business Insider
    “Fine, whatever,” she replies.

    Someone should interview that “member of the cabin crew”

    Did he believe it’s the policy of the airline to arrest her?

  114. “McLemore’s whereabouts are unknown.”
    ~Miami Herald

    Does this mean that she got away?

    How many agencies have people working (for our protection) in each major U S airport?

  115. Opus says:

    @minesweeper

    Not one but two Korngold videos and I can never get enough of his music. It is then worth remembering that when I was young I had never heard of him and when I did people merely made fun of his name, yet one day in the public library in the mid seventies I came across the seminal recording by Kempe of the Symphony in F sharp. I never looked back. The Violin Concerto is now standard repertory – even my own local orchestra did it – which would amaze anyone from fifty years ago.

    but Nicky is hawt.

  116. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    I notice that women bagpipe players are a thing on YouTube. There are many of them:

    I’m not qualified to judge how well she compares to male bagpipe players. But she does use her sexuality to please the audience.

  117. Oscar says:

    @ RichardP

    I’ve not read Josh Harris’ book. But – if he based his argument on scripture, if Josh was basically just letting scripture speak, then his age at the writing is irrelevant.

    The problem with that argument is that those very same Scriptures say otherwise.

    Titus 1:5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you— 6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination. 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
    ___________________________
    1 Timothy 3 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); 6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

    8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, 9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. 10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. 11 Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    First of all – according to the Scriptures – an elder must be appointed. No one appointed Josh Harris at 21 to teach millions. He appointed himself.

    Second – according to the Scriptures – an elder must not be a novice. What is a 21-year-old, if not a novice? Predictably, Josh Harris became puffed up with pride and fell into the same condemnation as the Devil.

    Third – according to the Scriptures – an elder must be tested. Josh Harris was completely untested.

    Fourth – according to the Scriptures – an elder must be husband to one reverent wife, father to faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination (which means the appointee’s children need to be old enough to be capable of dissipation or insubordination), and a good ruler of his home.

    Josh Harris is just now, at 44, capable of meeting all those standards, and as we now know, he fails miserably. That’s why wise people don’t elevate 21-year-olds to the status of spiritual guru.

    To be fair, I’m not blaming 21-year-old Josh Harris. The Christians who were in their 40s and older back in 1997 are to blame. They should have had the wisdom to tell 21-year-old Josh Harris, “sit down and shut up, kid. Let the grown folk talk.”

    But, then, the Christians who were in their 40s in the 1990s were Baby Boomers.

    Exactly.

  118. Jack Russell says:

    Sam Botta: “McLemore’s whereabouts are unknown.”
    Her ex? should rent a Harley and take her for a cruise around town. Before he goes he should have a co-worker play a bystander. He then can pull into a parking spot with the Harley and say to the “bystander”. Nice Hog isn’t it. They “bystander” can reply” Not really, but I like your motorcycle”.

  119. feeriker says:

    The construction industry needs us, ladies.

    I seem to recall a bridge that collapsed in Florida, causing a few deaths. I seem to recall that it was designed and built exclusively by women.

    The second statement makes the first one correct: women are “needed” in the constriction industry, at least in miniscule numbers, to show the world what disaster awaits when women are brought into construction.

    It seems that there are more cases of deranged airline passengers than ever before. Not a week goes by without a story of some nutjob who tries to open a door in flight (which can’t be done) or who starts a fight on the airplane and has to be restrained.

    I’m sure that there has also been some sort of “the aviation industry needs us as pilots, ladies” published somewhere , too. Which inevitably leads to this:

  120. Liz says:

    Jesus. I’ll never fly United.

  121. feeriker says:

    Jesus. I’ll never fly United.

    United is indeed the worst of the U.S. domestic airlines, but not by a great margin. They’re ALL horrible.

  122. Liz says:

    A few of the airlines still offer “black lists” for pilots with serious personality issues, to avoid hiring such people (pilots will write the names, and it goes into the hiring process….for example, “Don’t hire Maverick he did this and that”…enough pilots write this, Maverick won’t get hired even with 4000 hours). The aviation world can be a pretty small world.
    United and American don’t have this anymore, HR has taken over.

  123. Frank K says:

    I’ll give United one thing: if we don’t count 9/11 or its “United Express” regional contractors, United hasn’t had a crash since the 1980’s. That said, I doubt they have the same commitment to safety they did in the past.

    But yeah, their service stinks. Everyone’s service stinks, which is why Southwest, even though it’s a no frills airline with mediocre service, tops customer satisfaction surveys.

    And then there’s Boeing, which seems Hell bent on destroying its sterling reputation. I won’t set foot on a MAX for years until it’s proven, and will book flights on Airbuses just to avoid that flying disaster.

  124. Liz says:

    Airbus has had quite a few crashes.

  125. Liz says:

    SWA has flown 737s exclusively and in their 50 year history there was only a single passenger fatality (knock on wood).

  126. Minesweeper says:

    After 100 years, boeing actually engineered a new plane to crash itself. Easily their worst product ever. It indicates a failure in every area.

    Also, airbus has a part to play in this and the EU, the EU has been unfairly subsidising airbus for a while.

    https://www.france24.com/en/20190409-usa-threatens-tariffs-eu-goods-over-airbus-subsidies

    This has made it easier for airbus to design new planes and forced boeing into some form of internal panic I would think.

    But overall though, the 737max is a hodgepodge design of 1960’s design+tech mixed with 2015 design and tech. The airbus design isn’t perfect either, but it seems to be more reliable and cause less crashes, their 1 glaring issue is that there is no stick feedback for what the plane nor your copilot is doing.

  127. RichardP says:

    @Novaseeker: I understand contrarianism. I don’t understand how that concept relates to anything I’ve said in this thread – particularly the words of mine that you quoted.

    @Oscar: In your response to me, you quoted scripture. Does the truth of that scripture change, depending on how old you are when you quote it? I agree with everything you said in your post – except for your thought that you were addressing what I said.

    So – again: I’ve not read Josh’s book that was referenced. But if he was quoting scripture, if he was letting scripture speak for itself (as you just did, Oscar), then Josh’s age, and Oscar’s age, when he wrote it is irrelevant.

    In my original post, I said nothing more than that. However, I have since read a review that said Josh went beyond letting scripture speak for itself and made claims along the lines of “if you do what these scriptures say, you will have a good marriage” – which is something the Bible does not say. So – what I implied in my original post, but did not state outright, is this – going beyond what Scriptures actually say, and expounding on what Scriptures mean, is a good way to get off into the weeds. But that problem is not constrained to 21-year-olds. Hence, the need for the scriptures that Oscar posted about the requirements for being a Bishop, etc. I thought that point was obvious and didn’t need to be stated outright on a thread populated by folks who know the Bible. But apparently not.

  128. Anonymous Reader says:

    Liz
    SWA has flown 737s exclusively

    The 737 MAX is different from previous 737’s in important ways, starting with the engines and ending with the special added-on flight control subsystem that pilots were not informed of. There are good reasons for the MAX to be grounded.

    Dig deeper into the 737 MAX situation and there’s a long rabbit trail involving very bad design decisions.

  129. Anonymous Reader says:

    RichardP
    I’ve not read Josh’s book that was referenced.

    Then you are commenting from a position of ignorance. Perhaps you should try using knowledge instead?

    Is there a point to your contentiousness, or are you just hungry for attention ?

  130. Oscar says:

    @ RichardP

    I thought that point was obvious and didn’t need to be stated outright on a thread populated by folks who know the Bible. But apparently not.

    This is a public blog with readers of all stripes – believers, unbelievers, etc. Some are regular readers, some are casual readers, and some may only read this blog once. Therefore, that is a bad assumption to make.

    Besides, one cannot assume that even long-time Christians know, or even read the Scriptures. If they did, the church wouldn’t be in its current sad state. Nor would Christians have elevated Josh Harris to guru status in the first place. In fact, the only Scripture reading most Christians do is the couple verses they read in church Sunday mornings.

  131. Oscar says:

    @ Anonymous Reader

    Dig deeper into the 737 MAX situation and there’s a long rabbit trail involving very bad design decisions.

    Not just bad design decisions; bad personnel decisions as well. Like outsourcing software development to H-1B Visa engineers from India.

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/international-business/boeings-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers/articleshow/70002628.cms

  132. Liz says:

    The 737 MAX is different from previous 737’s in important ways, starting with the engines and ending with the special added-on flight control subsystem that pilots were not informed of.

    The second was the main problem (the reason for the first crash). They didn’t tell the pilots about the new system. It wasn’t in the manual so there was no protocol to deal with it and they didn’t understand what was happening. After that first crash, they put it in the manual and it was part of the training (at least at SWA). I don’t know any pilots with reservations about flying the MAX. Flight attendants, passengers (after the bad press), and all that do though….that’s the main reason it remains grounded.
    The method behind the “madness” of the Boeing add-ons is efficiency and money of course. Each new airframe requires a couple of months training for the pilots. If they only fly 737s, and that airframe is expanded to fit more seats months of new training aren’t required.

  133. Anonymous Reader says:

    Oscar
    Not just bad design decisions; bad personnel decisions as well

    Those decisions regarding software / firmware are also part of the design IMO. The rabbit trail is long and has a number of branches, I’m not keen to threadjack.

  134. Anonymous Reader says:

    Returning to the OP, a rhetorical question:

    What public actions would it take for a married woman to be arrested for DV in the current year?

    I’m thinking “lots of witnesses / vid recording, serious contusions and abrasions: flowing blood, in other words”. Equality under “family law” doesn’t exist. Calibrate accordingly.

    Well, French nobility in the 18th century were under a very different set of rules than commoners, so there’s precedent…

  135. Minesweeper says:

    @Liz, ” I don’t know any pilots with reservations about flying the MAX. Flight attendants, passengers (after the bad press), and all that do though….that’s the main reason it remains grounded.”

    Thats total nonsense, pilots are refusing to fly and were furious that boeing withheld info on MCAS, see the pilots union.

    It’s a faulty product that will kill you at low altitude at which point you no ability to work the problem. Any plane that starts to dive to the ground at 2000ft and at engine full power, is a liability to those in the air and those on the ground.

    Which is why its grounded.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Lion_Air_Flight_610.svg

  136. Red Pill Christianity says:

    Off topic: did you guys see the kid (he is a kid to me, since I am now an old guy at 37), but I am talking about the kid that made $3 million Dollars winning Fortnite game competition last night?

    I like games like most other men do and I am glad he managed to turn a useless pastime into a money-making venture. Good for him in that sense. He earned it.

    And at the same time, I feel bad for that kid. Making that kinda cash is like winning the lottery and being up there on stage holding that big check. -_- This kid is now on TV making that kinda cash. The IRS is going to audit his past 5 years worth of tax returns and do so for next few years, he will discover new “friends” and relatives he never even heard of will come after him. Scammers will

    And worst of all, broads that would have spit on his face for even talking to them a few years ago will now flock to him. The newfound attention will be either dangerous (like false raaaape accusations to be able to sue him civilly at the same time – like we keep seeing with numbskull Chris Rock) or he will wife up some woman that will pull a “drive-by divorce” on this cat and clean him out.

    A “drive by” is divorce is what we saw with Nicholas Cage got tricked into marriage while drunk in Vegas a few months back. Cage asked for annulment next morning when he realized what happened and his “wife” was demanding alimony for life and tons of other perks, including one his his apartments for her exclusive use. That is for less than 24 hours of “blissful marriage!” lol

    Imagine what this kid is gonna be up against now. If I were him, I would bail out of this country, or at the very least, go into hiding for a few months, as soon as humanly possible.

  137. Minesweeper says:

    @RPC, you have to wonder really, just how much his marriages\divorces have cost him. At one point in the last 10 years he was almost bankrupt wasnt he ?

    We can only the fortnight kid, knows better.

  138. Red Pill Christianity says:

    Anonymous Reader says: What public actions would it take for a married woman to be arrested for DV in the current year? Equality under “family law” doesn’t exist. Well, French nobility in the 18th century were under a very different set of rules than commoners, so there’s precedent…

    Interesting you used the French Revolution as an example. That was a period where nobility were excluded from being punished for almost any crime and paid literally zero taxes. The result? Over a decade of a violent civil war and mass executions on the Guillotine.

    If the French Rev is the precedent we have to look at, we better brace ourselves for real turmoil in America. You can only oppress such a large percentage of the population for a period of time. At some point, it becomes a boiling pot where the ruling classes simply put a lid on it to hold it all in and eventually, it bursts in a disastrous manner.

    In the UK, they did a test of what happens when men hits woman and woman hits man publicly. Here are the results: https://www.buzzfeed.com/candacelowry/watch-how-people-react-when-they-see-a-woman-abuse-a-man-in

    In the USA, a country with a bit less misandry than the UK (just a bit), I have only known of two situations where a woman was arrested in a DV (Domestic Violence). The first was a situation was when cops came to a couple’s apartment (nosy neighbor called about a “noise disturbance”) and when the cops ran their names, they saw she had an outstanding warrant for violating her bail and not showing up for court (she had a DUI and simple possession charge). Not wanting to leave their apartment empty and forcing young child into CPS, they saw no options but to arrest her and left man in the apt, but gave him a summon to appear in court ( a misdemeanor charge, but still, a criminal charge). But the guy was just lucky there because his woman has an outstanding “bench Warrant” for failing to appear in court. Had she been clean, he would have been arrested for sure, even though she was threatening him with a Rambo style knife that evening.

    Besides that the only other time I know of was when this skinny Jamaican dude was beaten and his hands were cable-tied on stairs railing by his 450lbs American “urban” wife. The cops got there and the dude was crying and wife came out yelling at cops to “arrest that piece of ssss#it man”. But again, another highly unusual extreme, situation. She got arrested, as clearly, the cops could not hide bodycam evidence of the man being tied up and crying. So beta, but at least he did not get arrested! -_-

    Besides that, unless you have hi-def, crispy clear video of situation where wife/woman is charging at man with knife or is recorded making threats and cops can see the entire incident, beginning to end with no cuts, the man will always lose in DV situations where police is involved. This is why you should build a moat around your house and never let a woman move in with you or marry one during this dark period in history.

    If she starts to act out, say “ok, I messed up. let’s go to the store, let me buy you a nice surprise” and then pretend to go to the bathroom and then leave her at the mall. Never see her again and save all her voicemails where she is curing at you, leaving threats. That is best you can in these situations.

  139. Red Pill Christianity says:

    I just happened to see this comment on that UK women abuse men and everyone laughs article.
    (article: buzzfeed.com/candacelowry/watch-how-people-react-when-they-see-a-woman-abuse-a-man-in). Check out this guy’s comment:

    BrianK4863e5034

    “I’ve been through this myself. I politely asked a woman to stop blocking the entrance to a parking lot of a bank as she had the window down and was chit chatting with a friend about personal stuff. When she finally pulled into a spot, as did I, she started shouting at me and calling me names. Other people there asked her if she needed any help and started threatening me as well. No matter how cowardly it looks like, I always have to back down if I am in a situation with a woman because know that if most bystanders will support a woman in a fight or argument, I know that the police will as well and I know that I’ll be the one that will be arrested! It is a very sexist society we live in and men usually end up with the short end of the stick!”

    Any man that has NOT been through this ever before does not live in a Western country!!!

  140. Liz says:

    Minesweeper, there is a lot of misinformation out there about the 737MAX.
    Thats total nonsense, pilots are refusing to fly and were furious that boeing withheld info on MCAS, see the pilots union.
    It is true (as I noted above) that they were furious (and justifiably so) for the inexplicable withholding of information about the aircraft they were flying. But after the first crash that changed.
    They they knew to use the stabilizer trim cutoff switches when needed.

  141. Frank K says:

    Besides, one cannot assume that even long-time Christians know, or even read the Scriptures. If they did, the church wouldn’t be in its current sad state. Nor would Christians have elevated Josh Harris to guru status in the first place.

    To be fair it was only a small subset of Christians. I had never heard of Harris until I first visited this forum and I strongly suspect that he is unknown outside of American Evangelicalism, as are many of the false teachers frequently discussed in this forum.

  142. Minesweeper says:

    @Liz says:”Minesweeper, there is a lot of misinformation out there about the 737MAX.
    Thats total nonsense, pilots are refusing to fly and were furious that boeing withheld info on MCAS, see the pilots union.
    It is true (as I noted above) that they were furious (and justifiably so) for the inexplicable withholding of information about the aircraft they were flying. But after the first crash that changed.”

    You didn’t note at all ? Unless I missed it.

    “They they knew to use the stabilizer trim cutoff switches when needed.”

    And after the 2nd crash then they knew they faced aerodynamic lockout at that point, whereby they had no recovery possible. As keeping the engines at full power was tilting the plane up while the stabilizer was at full trim down, at that point, its a suicide mission as you couldn’t under any circumstances alter the rear trim manually.

    Then all pilots. stopped defending boeing.

  143. Liz says:

    As keeping the engines at full power was tilting the plane up while the stabilizer was at full trim down, at that point, its a suicide mission as you couldn’t under any circumstances alter the rear trim manually.

    Yes, you can alter the trim manually. There are stabilizer trim cutoff switches.

  144. Minesweeper says:

    @Liz says:”‘As keeping the engines at full power was tilting the plane up while the stabilizer was at full trim down, at that point, its a suicide mission as you couldn’t under any circumstances alter the rear trim manually.’

    Yes, you can alter the trim manually. There are stabilizer trim cutoff switches.”

    Wrong.

    https://leehamnews.com/2019/04/03/et302-used-the-cut-out-switches-to-stop-mcas/

    You can’t at 2000ft, with engines at 100% power (on takeoff) when MCAS kicks in as you have retracted your stabilisers, when engaging “cut out” the trim wheels lock themselves so that no human on earth could move them in that configuration.

    At that air density (2000ft), the engines (moving too 100%) and the trim (full down) create a configuration thats been termed a kamikaze configuration.

    No possible recovery is achievable. You’d be better off jumping out the doors and seeing if you can hit a pond.

  145. Liz says:

    Interesting. Heh, thanks for the link Minesweeper. I’ll ask my spouse about it when he gets home from a trip. What I have posted is what he has told me.

  146. Minesweeper says:

    @Liz, is he a pilot of the 737 ?

    If so, he would hopefully be aware of the term “aerodynamic lockout”.

    As that is what fundamentally happened on both crashes.

  147. Liz says:

    Hey, Minesweeper, yeah….he flies for SWA (it’s all 737s, but the MAX is grounded now).

  148. Minesweeper says:

    @Liz says:”Hey, Minesweeper, yeah….he flies for SWA (it’s all 737s, but the MAX is grounded now).”

    Lucky for you !

    Does he flies the 737NG ?

  149. Liz says:

    Lucky, yes! 🙂
    I don’t know about the 737NG specifically…if SWA has them, he has most likely flown them.

  150. Minesweeper says:

    Well its prob that or a recent variant. its all about fuel economy these days. Which is why they are so desperate to utilise the new engines.

    The new CFM engines are huge compared to the original 737 engines – which were like large cigars hanging under the wings.

    Saying that, its very very dangerous for pilots to translate to a new aircraft design or even a modification that they are unaware of.

    Sticking with what you know is really crucial when flying planes.

  151. RichardP says:

    @Anonymous Reader said: Then you are commenting from a position of ignorance..

    No. I was not commenting on a book I have not read, so I was not commenting out of ignorance. I was commenting on things I have read and things I do know. … If he was quoting scripture; if he was letting scripture speak for itself … If that position held true, then my comments had merit. If he was not doing that, then my remarks were of no effect.

    Are you aware that Josh has been apologizing for any hurt he has caused sinners by what he wrote in that book? And if the book had scripture in it, if that book was based on scripture, then Josh has been apologizing for scripture hurting sinners. That is a significant issue. That was my point. It bears discussing – but in a different thread, since Josh is not the subject of this thread.

  152. Anonymous Reader says:

    RichardP
    If … if … if … if … if.. it bears discussing – but in a different thread…

  153. BillyS says:

    I like arming bears better!

  154. Minesweeper says:

    @Liz, when I think about it there is 1 way to get out of the MCAS trim lockout, you extend the flaps, they will shatter off the wings at that speed but it disables mcas and you can reenable electronic trim control and move the damm thing back to neutral.

    mcas dumbly implemented as it is at least decided it shouldn’t be used when the flaps are extended – at takeoff and landing. so thats really the only way around the bug.

    in both crashes, the instant they retracted the flaps all hell broke lose, even the info from boeing dosn’t say extend the flaps if mcas is malfunctioning, such a simple recovery as well if they had been told.

  155. Liz says:

    @Liz, when I think about it there is 1 way to get out of the MCAS trim lockout, you extend the flaps, they will shatter off the wings at that speed but it disables mcas and you can reenable electronic trim control and move the damm thing back to neutral.

    Hey, Yeah my spouse read the article you linked to this morning. He agrees the engineering is messed up (particularly since the stuff is only connected to one sensor…why have two sensors if they’re going to do that?).
    Some of the comments mentioned the flaps, but in his opinion in a situation like that (high stress, everything is going fast) it’s unlikely anyone would be clear headed enough to have done that (it wasn’t part of a practiced procedure). He was a test pilot for a while, and he’d like to think he would have but isn’t sure (and doesn’t want to second guess the pilots).
    He mentioned the commonalities between 737s are necessary for certifications (if they change too many features, they have to have separate certifications, requiring extra training). They have to be similar enough, the reason the Boeing designs can seem a bit archaic. In his opinion, these features make the 737 kind of complicated to fly by comparison to fighters (tactics and so forth are more complicated, but the actual flying is easier). He has flown the T38, F16, F22 (also the MQ-9).

  156. Minesweeper says:

    @Liz, oh lucky him, if I could start my life again, thats what I would do 😀

    On the 737 type rating, quite a few crashes have occured due to keeping the change level below that of a new plane.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegworth_air_disaster

    This happened because a) engine failure, b) the pilots were used to the prev model of 737 and prob had just the minimal 1hr conversion course.

    Its a dangerous business moving from plane to plane even with one that stays within its type rating.

  157. Minesweeper says:

    @Liz, what was his favourite to fly (T38, F16, F22) ? I doubt the 737 would make that list.

  158. Liz says:

    The 737 isn’t as much fun as the others, but it’s a lot easier on his upper back. 😆
    He liked them all for different reasons, but I think the F16 remains his all-around favorite.

  159. RichardP says:

    @Frank K said: To be fair it was only a small subset of Christians.

    Josh Harris’ parents were / are big in the christian homeschooling sector. So folks initially knew Josh through his parents. Josh became a protege’ of C.J. Mahaney, who himself is a protege’ / cohort of John MacArthur. C.J. and MacArthur and John Piper and others all run in the same Reformed (Calvinist) circles. If you don’t pay attention to home schooling or the Reformed folks, then you would likely never run across Josh Harris. But lots of folks do pay attention to these things and so know of the name Josh Harris, even if they don’t know Josh himself.

    Folks commenting about Josh in this thread may not know of his Reformed connection. When stripped to its basics, the Reformed / Calvanist belief is that we cannot know that we are saved until we stand before God at the Judgement Seat and hear him say “well done; enter”. (I won’t list here the scriptures they use to support this idea). That is an awful way to face life, that not knowing. If I had to guess, I would guess that is what Josh has eventually come face to face with, can’t bear it, and has chosen to walk away from it. Consider his recent statement that (paraphrased) by every metric that I have known that defines a Christian (note that he would be using Reformed / Calvanistic metrics), I am not a Christian.

    I don’t envy him his journey as he / if he attempts to find a ray of hope outside of the bleakness that is Calvinism.

  160. Red Pill Christianity says:

    Damn Crackers says: “Christians” against real Christians again:
    https://thehill.com/homenews/news/455157-interfaith-group-warns-against-creating-second-class-faiths-in-us

    The Left seeks to sow discord amongst us as much as they can. The most Atheistic group of reporters would not stop talking about Romney’s Mormonism and how Evangelicals and Catholics would not support him in 2012. And that is exactly what happened. Turn Christians against one another.

    The Left hates America and they understand one of the fastest ways to destroy it is to destroy its Christian roots and foundations. Or did you think the erasing and demonizing of our history, removal of status, murals, history classes, and demonizing heritage, while denying the Christian founding of America was all an accident?

    The goal here is simple: keep everyone hating everyone else. Terminate any vestige of American identity through ethnic mixing, re-education of children, and mass immigration. Create supposed “war on women”, fake rape hysterias, racism is everywhere, “white men are a danger”, and so forth.

    Turn every American against one another. Create a culture of suspicion where Americans distrust and hate each other. Men vs women. Americans vs immigrants. Race against race. Class against class.

    Uncertainty is everywhere. You help a save someone from a burning car and you can be sued and lose your home and have wages garnished. You have friends over to your house and they drive home and crash their car, you get sued for serving them alcohol. Burglar enters your home and you shoot him, you face criminal charges and lawsuit from burglar or his family.

    Then they increase the temperature by taking away form Americans by force to give to illegals (like almost-free Section 8 housing, healthcare, college tuition, etc) and Americans begin to hate foreigners. Accuse any dissenters of “racism” and “xenophobia” no matter how absurd the accusation may be.

    Then add court-backed, police enforced ways women can exploit and steal from their soon-to-be ex-husbands and then imprison innocent men with a phone call to local cops. Or did you honestly think the whole female privilege was just about “righting past wrongs”? Oh no, it is about making men and women hate one another. Dredge up accusations that cannot be dis-proven from 5, 10, or 30 years ago. In fact, the more outrageous the accusation, the better, since “all women must be believed” even when they are proven to have lied. This causes more outrage.

    You can be arrested and imprisoned on a single person’s (i.e. woman’s) testimony at anytime for any reason. You can be fired from your job with an unfounded accusation of “sexual harassment”. You get banned from websites or social media on a whim. Today you are a happy married men, tomorrow your wife has called cops on you and ejected you from your home and now you are facing a divorce and false criminal charges at same time.

    In a single election, open up the Borders and allow 3-5 million new illegals to march in and get on welfare same day. Double middle class taxes to pay for it and flood their schools. Open up prisons and let violent felons out by the tens of thousands. Crime goes up.

    It never ends, it is one against another. You get to a point that you become “atomized”, you feel like it is you vs the entire world. You feel alone, under siege, and despair.

    These are the basics of Karl Marx and Saul Alisnky at their best. The Soviet Union deployed this trick extremely well for 75 years. Create a situation where everything is unstable and volatile. You never know when the Stazi or KGB is listening to your calls to come arrest you or when another person will accuse you of a crime falsely.

    The instability gives the Left political power. Fear prevents any opposition. As B. Hussein O’s Chief Of Staff Rham Emmanuel famously said “never let a good crisis go to waste” [to hurt America].

    Suddenly, everything becomes destabilized. Fear, division, and hate are everywhere. This is what 2020 election is all about. It is the final nail in America’s coffin, if the Left get the hammer. Starting to divide Christians now is just part of their typical strategy.

  161. Anonymous Reader says:

  162. Luke says:

    Red Pill C.:
    Mormons /= Christians. We’re monotheists, and Mormons are polytheists.
    They don’t even use the same holy book as us.
    Further, Romney was a RINO at best. He came up with a disastrous social program as governor that fricking inspired ObamaCare. I’m glad he lost, and I HATE Democrats.

  163. Luke says:

    Red Pill C.:
    Mormons /= Christians. We’re monotheists, and Mormons are polytheists.
    They don’t even use the same holy book as us.

    Further, Romney was a RINO at best. He came up with a disastrous social program as governor that fricking inspired ObamaCare. I’m glad he lost, and I HATE Democrats.

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