Discontentment is both the input and the output of feminism.

Larry Kummer writes in Feminism has given us successful girls and broken girls:

Summary: I have two grown boys. The most frequent comment I get from parents who have daughters: you are so lucky; teenage girls are so difficult. The out-of-control, angry, hyper-emotional teen girl has become a common type in American society, even a trope in films and TV. Yet I see no mention of this as a normal phenomenon before the 1970s. What is happening?

We should only expect more of the same.  Feminism cultivates women’s discontentment, what Betty Friedan famously called the problem with no name.  Without women’s discontentment, there can be no feminist progress.

Only once gratitude is relinquished for righteous anger will gender rules in this realm be rewritten.

Feminism increases women’s discontentment, which then increases the power and appeal of feminism.  Lather, rinse, repeat.  As tragic as it is, you have to marvel at the evil elegance of feminism.

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127 Responses to Discontentment is both the input and the output of feminism.

  1. “Feminism cultivates women’s discontentment”

    That seems beyond doubt after 3 or 4 decades of feminist progress – with new complains emerging every year.

    But my post cites evidence of much worse results from feminists’ success: girls are not just discontented, but suffering increasing mental health problems. The news media have suppressed discussion about this, although this research pops us occasionally. But if (emphasis on “if”) this trend continues, someday it will become impossible to ignore.

    These girls – and the women they become – are the lab rats in the Left’s experiment – building a new society on the ruins of the patriarchy. The “communism” project did not work out as planned, and the casualties were beyond counting. But they have confidence this new project will have wonderful results.

    Now for the terrible news: we are complicit for allowing it.

  2. Wood Chipper says:

    Any societies that were more absolutist would have had enough of it by now. We are trapped in clown world on the other side of the spectrum where women can pretend to be independent with individual rights while collectivizing all of their consequences. Men should squash the rebellion and take away a few privileges, except it’s a free country…right?….right?

  3. Poptarts says:

    Being discontented is what makes women happy though. As long as there is a shot at alpha male everything is fine. Even if no shot at alpha male, gossiping about said alpha male makes feminism worth it. I think people are confused about what women want. This IS what they naturally want most.

  4. Poptarts says:

    @Larry. Not complicit. Remember if you don’t like it there’s a SWAT team standing by.

  5. Novaseeker says:

    I would not agree that men as a whole are complicit for allowing it. There wasn’t exactly an option given — the changes were rammed through from on high by the political/social/culural/media betters. At this point, Civil insurrection against a military that is armed to the teeth is a fool’s errand if there ever was one.

    In any case, the externalities of the feminist revolution are blamed on men anyway. In other words, women and girls wouldn’t be having the increase in mental issues if it weren’t for toxic masculinity, rape culture, male objectification of women and unrealistic beauty standards, porn culture, men not pulling their weight at home, women bearing the burden of “emotional labor” in relationships, and on and on and on. The externalities will be blamed on men “screwing up feminism”, as Dalrock says, and not on feminism itself.

  6. Anonymous Reader says:

    Theology aside, discontent is inherent in the human mind and IMO much more prevalent in women. Feminism’s unreal world of mirrors and lies can only amplify that discontent, with the result that in some age cohorts 25% of women are taking anti-depressants or other such drugs.

    As long as social elites are True Believers in the “blank slate”, i.e. that women just men with boobs, and any disparity of outcome is due to evil patriarchy, the experiment will continue. Because the social elites are driving the bus, the rest of us are passengers. There won’t be a global top-down fix, because the top 1/10th of 1% likes what is happening. They like it, for whatever reasons. That’s why all their UMC hirelings continue to push it.

    Carve out an island of sanity where you are, with what you have. Begin with your own mindset, your Frame of reference and proceed outward.

  7. poptarts,

    “Not complicit. Remember if you don’t like it there’s a SWAT team standing by.”

    Elections are held regularly. There are no SWAT teams forcing your vote.

    “It’s not my fault” should replace “e pluribus unum” on coins and the Great Seal. I fear that it now describes us better than does “one out of many.” Without the assumption of responsibility for America, the drive for change is gone.

    As seen in this post – our daughters are lab rats in the Left’s mad experiments, we begin to see the ill side-effects, and yet we do nothing. But the potential for reform is inherent in us all, and we can hope it emerges again in America.

  8. Dalrock says:

    @Novaseeker

    I would not agree that men as a whole are complicit for allowing it.

    I know I was. Weren’t you? This stuff is really difficult to root out, as we have drunk deeply.

  9. Anonymous Reader says:

    Larry Kummer
    Elections are held regularly. There are no SWAT teams forcing your vote.

    You really think voting can solve this problem, Larry? Seriously?

    “It’s not my fault” should replace “e pluribus unum” on coins and the Great Seal. I fear that it now describes us better than does “one out of many.” Without the assumption of responsibility for America, the drive for change is gone.

    Are you taking personal responsibility for this situation, or is this just another one of your “blame all other men” conservative moments?

    As seen in this post – our daughters are lab rats in the Left’s mad experiments, we begin to see the ill side-effects, and yet we do nothing.

    Who’s “we”, Larry? There are men in my extended social circle and family who are doing what they can, where they can: starting with their own family, and extending out to churches & social groups. It is an uphill fight for them, because the entire entertainment industry, much of the church world, most of the government is pushing against them with various forms of brainwashing. They are fighting back where then can with what they have.

    Yet you display the same contempt for those men that lesbian feminists do. Why is that?

    Your arrogance makes it very difficult to have an actual discussion.

  10. Cane Caldo says:

    Larry,

    The “really bad news” is worse for some than others. There was a time I behaved by the way Boomers told me I should. Then I realized that they were blind, heedless, and self-centered. Now, going on over a decade, I tell young women they should obey their fathers until they marry and then they should obey their husbands. I tell them to marry, have kids, and raise them themselves instead of foisting them off onto daycares called “public schools”.

    Elections are held regularly.

    Which pro-patriarchy anti-feminist candidate did you vote for?

  11. Lee says:

    I would be discontent as well if I was taught what inherently is important to me as a man needs to be transcended in order to take on a pseudo female persona.

  12. Anonymous Reader says:

    I want to vote Bob Iger out of office and replace him with a patriarch who is strongly opposed to pedophilia.

    Anyone want to help me out by explaining how I can do that?

  13. Novaseeker says:

    I know I was. Weren’t you? This stuff is really difficult to root out, as we have drunk deeply.

    Not really, no. I mean I saw in college, as early as 1986, where this was going. People were marching around my campus chanting against “dead white males” and so on — the bete noire of the day was getting rid of mandatory “western civ” courses for freshmen, but for anyone who had eyes it was clear what this was based on and where it was going — they didn’t exactly hide their plan or views. At that time, people could still openly disagree, and I and others did, but it had no effect. Same in law school — there were very vocal disagreements between various men, including me, with female classmates (unlike today where people do not say these things any longer) about the typical nonsense that we see cropping up in the news today actually, but they went on to culturally influential positions anyway. Individual people can’t really change a broad cultural movement that had the kind of money, power (political/cultural/intellectual/media) behind it that the movement of the 60s-90s had, which is the movement that ushered in the current follow-on intersectionality cult. People *did* resist. It simply did no good. The forces aligned against were too powerful and there was always an army of male white knights who, even if they didn’t agree with the patriarchy/feminism theories, still prevented the movement from being interfered with because they had to protect women from being “attacked”, even intellectually. Perhaps a few things were delayed here and there by this or that action or election, but the general trend kept marching in the same direction the entire time, and still is. We were — and are — fighting against a tsunami. Best thing anyone can do at this point is control what he can in his own life and family life — that’s all, and that’s very difficult in the current environment as it is.

    Elections are no answer, Larry. The other side has figured out that you can stack the deck demographically through immigration and educational indoctrination of the young, and so elections are no help. Trump is a kind of “last gasp” before the demographic wave of non-white voters really crashes the shoreline with the advent of Gen Z becoming voting age.

  14. Joe says:

    My own personal experience was that raising a daughter was easy. What a great kid she was, and her brother too. My wife tells me we hit the kid lottery with both of them. They are in their mid to late 20’s now and we still are grateful for easy they were. We never even had to prompt for them to do homework, as they both hated undone stuff hanging over their heads. But we prayed A LOT. And my wife was a stay at home mom, with dinner on the table with cloth napkins, place-mats and china every night. She even did that when she was single. I’ll never forget going to her little old house even before we were dating and the old dining table was always set with a tablecloth, nice plates and cloth napkins. Not any other girl I knew did that.

  15. Poptarts says:

    Research what happened with Prop 187 in California in 1994 if you think voting works. If it doesn’t support their agenda they will just say it’s​ not legal by their definitions. Democracy, the God that Failed. Again, if you don’t like it there’s a Death Squad standing by with the legal authority to kill you.

  16. g2-cdb27520fb49967abcc1c55ca90a2fef says:

    I had four daughters. The oldest ran away from home when her mean parents (cough) wouldn’t let her smoke, drink, drug and screw around when she was ‘all grown up’ at 16. CPS was all about ‘finding compromise’, they shut up when I asked which laws they were suggesting we ignore. I did learn that the Catholic school we paid for wasn’t any better than the local public school as far as instilling values (or knowledge, for that matter) went. That daughter has continued to lead a train-wreck life. I will claim partial success in reclaiming her children.

    Her younger sisters learned from her bad example, although the third one did try to be Katie Ka-Boom a few times. That got shut down hard. We found a charter school that taught moral values as well as decent education, that helped. We didn’t beat feminism, but with those girls, we managed a draw. It can be hard to even see the warping, let alone fight it. Can’t run against the wind, sometimes just standing against it is all we could manage.

    IMHO we’re approaching maximum society deviance. It’ll break or regenerate soon. Lord, let us survive so that we may thrive.

  17. BillyS says:

    Novaseeker,

    I agree with you. I did all I could to impact the direction society went, and it went that way anyway.

    I don’t buy the “you are all guilty of allowing/enabling this” accusation. Many did, but modern democracy is far more flawed than any of us realized and voting is only a stop gap measure, not a way to really turn the ship around as it were.

    I support Trump in many ways, especially since he is doing many of the things that even Reagan could not do, but he is quite messed up in some of these areas. Just look at the “equal pay for equal work” crud he brought up in the campaign. It wasn’t a major focus, but his own alphaness enabled him to not see the true impact of the feminism that has whacked many of us.

    God can bring a revival as He wills of course, but that is the only thing that would really change things and it would fight against much of the established religious leaders to do that.

    Don’t blame me for the problem if you can’t list many practical things that could have been done but that were not done. Just saying “you are guilty” merely because we lived in this time is not a valid assertion, though people will keep making it.

  18. okrahead says:

    Do I get a vote on abortion?
    Do I get a vote on gay marriage?
    The list goes on…..
    Society: “Bend the knee to Baal.”
    Okrahead: “No.”
    Larry K: “All these people bowed the knee to Baal so you are responsible.”
    Okay Larry…. what’s your answer? What are YOU going to do? Put up or shut up.

  19. InTheLatterTimes says:

    For anyone interested, here’s some very good preaching from the late great pastor Martyn Lloyd Jones on Marriage, Divorce, even Feminism. From the 1950’s!

    iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/martyn-lloyd-jones-sermon-podcast/id888740556?i=1000443400700

    They’re only on iTunes for a few days, so in case it’s already gone, here it is directly from the MLJ Trust website:
    https://www.mljtrust.org/sermons-online/ephesians-5-22-23/basic-principles/

  20. Nick Mgtow says:

    The fact that I’m dependent doesn’t mean I’m not independent; feminism, the cherry pick buffet. https://www.bolde.com/yes-want-man-can-protect-no-doesnt-make-weak/

  21. okrahead says:

    Part of the red pill ( a really big part) is learning to quit taking responsibility for other people’s bad actions. I do what I can to warn any who will listen not to follow the gestalt; I do not accept responsibility when they refuse to listen.

  22. BillyS says:

    g2,

    The problem is that the father has no authority to push anything today. He can only pray for a compliant daughter.

    IMHO we’re approaching maximum society deviance. It’ll break or regenerate soon. Lord, let us survive so that we may thrive.

    Some here claim things will never revert, but I continue to assert that is not true. The reversion may delay far longer than I think it can/should, but it will happen. Where we are and where we are going is not sustainable. What cannot continue won’t continue, as the saying goes.

    I wish I had a clue of what to do to help things out for the better, but no one here has that, even Larry or our host Dalrock. Scott is doing something in Montana, but even that may face challenges down the line and is definitely not sustainable for most men.

    This was why I finally got fed up with Vox Day lately because he also blamed men for making the wrong choices, when none of the choices available are good. Need more advice on what to do, rather than what not to do or accusations we are doing things (whatever those are) wrong.

  23. okrahead says:

    First of all what NOT to do: do not engage in the rot, do not support the rot, do not excuse the rot.
    Blaming “all of us” is a form of excusing the rot. Name those who are of the rot, label and expose them. Consider well the best course of action you have available to oppose them in every aspect of your life, then do so. Always resist, never bow the knee. And don’t turn your fire on those who also oppose the rot by claiming “everyone” is responsible. Sounds like something David French would say to avoid doing anything worthwhile.

  24. DrTorch says:

    Yet I see no mention of this as a normal phenomenon before the 1970s.

    Really?

    Taming of the Shrew/Kiss Me Kate

    This play has legs b/c people recognized the character.

    And there were plenty of allusions to it in shows like Father Knows Best, Patty Duke, etc. The point being that these things were played down on early TV as the shows served both as morality plays and as tranquil fantasies that people desired.

    Moreover, this character clearly made it into adulthood in several pieces of popular fiction because she was recognizable: :
    Streetcar Named Desire, The Sun Also Rises, numerous stories by John O’Hara.
    And explains much of the popularity of radio/TV soap operas.

    But she’s the villain more often than not back then. Now she’s the heroine. That’s what is telling.

  25. Linda says:

    I am staunchly and unashamedly not a feminist. Even though I am obviously madly in love with my husband of 30 years I still surprisingly get a fair bit of male attention. He says that I don’t look my age (I think I do but glad for his goggles) but most of all it’s because I choose to be happy almost all the time. It seems like a rarity these days I guess.

  26. Dave says:

    God can bring a revival as He wills of course, but that is the only thing that would really change things and it would fight against much of the established religious leaders to do that.

    I can’t agree more with the fact that we sorely need a coast-to-coast revival of the types they had in days gone by.
    But I will have to disagree that the responsibility for a revival rests solely upon God. It doesn’t.

    God has done everything He could possibly do to expose the church and the world to never-ending revivals. He gave His only Son. Gave the Third Person of the Trinity to make a permanent abode among us, direct us, inspire us, teach us, and empower us. He gave His Word which is bursting at the seams with specific, mouth-watering, unbelievable promises, and countless examples of His faithful dealings with those who trusted Him in the past.

    All we need to do is seek His face “until He rains the blessings of revivals on us”. But we are too busy to do even that. We sprinkle prayers here and there at our convenience and then wonder why God doesn’t bring a revival.
    Well, he can’t. It’s like a beloved student who answers very questions on a test, and then wonders why the professor does not give him a pass mark.

  27. Pingback: Discontentment is both the input and the output of feminism. | Reaction Times

  28. Anonymous Reader says:

    Speaking of voting, in 2008 the people of California voted to prohibit “gay marriage” via Proposition 8. In the ensuing weeks the donor lists supporting Prop 8 were used to hunt people down and harass them, often getting them fired – Brandon Eich is the most visible, but there were others.

    Progressives also revealed a strong tendency towards hatred of black people, because the black vote had been a significant part of passage of Prop. 8. Hatred of religious people, especially Mormons was expected but the downright racially based hate of black people for voting “wrong” surprised many.

    In the end a homosexual judge struck down the Proposition on flimsy grounds and immediately retired. The vote was annulled by a single man with an obvious bias and agenda.

    PS: In 2008 Barak Obama held the same position on marriage as the supporters of Prop. 8, that it is between one man and one woman. This was acceptable to the left wing of his party. 11 years later that same opinion could get one fired from many large corporations if voiced at the wrong place / time.

    The pace of change has accelerated, but many Boomers are still stuck in the 1990’s, opposing an imaginary Bill Clinton.

  29. Anonymous Reader says:

    DrTorch
    Taming of the Shrew/Kiss Me Kate

    “Kiss Me, Kate” has been revived at the remodeled Studio 54. The production is reasonably faithful to the original, including “Too Darn Hot” which was left out of the movie. One little moment in one scene has been left out; there will be no spanking of a female character, even though she deserves it.

    A search on youtube shows “Kiss Me, Kate” is often performed by high schools and colleges. My Glasses lead me to suspect this is partly a manifestation of the hunger for masculinity on the individual and small-group level, even as social elites pour scorn and contempt on men at the society-wide level.

  30. Red Pill Christianity says:

    Larry Kumer that was an excellent article, making excellent points. I have to say, I would absolutely hate if I had a daughter this day and age in a Western country. It is like you waste all that time, emotional energy, physical energy, and funds and in the end, she gets to a college and becomes your enemy, renounces Christ, and turns into a blend of Rosie O’Donnell and Miley Cyrus who is giving it away faster than a supermarket food sampler lady.

    Very few daughters today will stay within her father’s frame after she moves away from home and very few will even keep most of what her father taught her, IF her father is even allowed to be around her, given the family law nightmare and state of affairs in America. It will be a monumental task for a father to have a “decent daughter” these days, someone who would be a good candidate for marriage and who will not self-destruct. Only the most Alpha dads will be able to pull this off.

    Women simply cannot be pleased in terms of financial, legal, or “freedom” privileges in a society. Catering to women always and I mean always makes the situation worse. You have to bring a woman into your frame. Women today have greatly suppressed their innate “agreeability” skills, but a man who is Alpha and holds frame can and is able to pull a woman into his frame, making her fit into his life and adhere to his beliefs.

    It is gonna be an uphill battle this day and age in a Western country, but it is totally doable. But you cannot start from scratch or try it on a radical feminist. You have to work on a girl that already has the basics down (similar cultural background, raised in church, even if currently not activew in church, moderate-conservative political views, etc).

    Just be sure not to cave to female demands. Do not ask her where she wants to eat, say you are thinking of going to ___, and ask if she wants to come. Set dates that suit you and tell her and if she has a scheduling conflict, she will say it. Turn on news and comment on news and if she rebuts you, correct her on the spot, even if she gets mad. Do not apologize unless absolutely necessary.

    Remember Roosh’s saying: a woman is like water, she fits the container she is put into. Brining a woman into your frame as a man is absolutely doable. But a man must want this and he must show he is in control and pull her into his frame and he must know who he is and what he stands for. Going to be some work, but totally doable. I know because I have done this many times throughout my own life, even back in high school.

  31. Bart says:

    Agree with Novaseeker here. No individual man can override the system that has given us gynocracy. It sounds responsible and humble to say, “We’re all guilty,” and yes, we know when shtf that men will be blamed for allowing it, but that doesn’t make it true.

    We know that women have a strong in-group preference and men have an out-group preference for women. So women make decisions (and vote) with women in mind, and men make decisions (and vote) with women and men in mind. What do you suppose will happen when you aggregate their votes?

    Same with marriage. As Dalrock and FM well know, it only works when men have the authority to lead their families. “Equality” yields no kind of balanced marriage, just as a mutually open marriage doesn’t yield anything remotely like parity for husband and wife.

    I don’t see a way out until a stronger culture overtakes us or we spiral into catastrophe and trigger a patriarchal reset. Like someone observed upthread, this has been delayed because we just keep importing people from much more traditional cultures with positive fertility rates to keep the game afloat.

  32. Anonymous Reader says:

    Red Pill Christianity
    I have to say, I would absolutely hate if I had a daughter this day and age in a Western country. It is like you waste all that time, emotional energy, physical energy, and funds and in the end, she gets to a college and becomes your enemy, renounces Christ, and turns into a blend of Rosie O’Donnell and Miley Cyrus who is giving it away faster than a supermarket food sampler lady.

    That’s the black pill, it is borderline despair. There are people who comment on this site and others going to great lengths to keep their daughters out of that sewer. It requires vigilance, and time, and standing up to the culture. However it can be done and frankly any parent must at least try.

    For a start, if one has a child planning to go to college, be very selective. All of the higher education institutions are corrupted, but not all to the same degree.

    A majority of high school graduates do not go to college. Community college / trade school is much less politicized than 4 year institutions. A young man learning to service Cummins diesel engines won’t be exposed to much feminism, for example. A young woman learning to be a practical nurse or registered nurse might see more of it, but still not to the extent of a liberal arts major at some radfem infested school.

    Despair is a killer. It may also be a sin in Christianity. Either way, I suggest you stop rolling in it.

    @All
    There is a middle path between the blind “let’s go do something stupid that is bound to fail” and “there is no hope, let’s just give up”. Serious men and thus serious discussions avoid both those extreme points of view.

  33. @CC

    Now, going on over a decade, I tell young women they should obey their fathers until they marry and then they should obey their husbands. I tell them to marry, have kids, and raise them themselves instead of foisting them off onto daycares called “public schools”.

    I told my girls the same, but we have encountered a small problem with that good advice: young Christian men are in no way shape or form prepared to BE obeyed by their women. They are in fact completely unaware that they are supposed to be in charge and to be obeyed.

    Our 18-year-old daughter is newly engaged. Her 20-year-old fiancé has been stuffed full of the same “weak men screwing up feminism“ Christianity that Dalrock has written about. So have all his friends.

    It just baffles me. I’ve seen this young man in command of people; he’s been a counselor at the Christian camp where our daughter worked, he’s a swim instructor at the YMCA, he knows how to tell people what to do, but he lets her get away with seriously bratty behavior at times.

    We didn’t raise her to act that way. When I talked to her about it, she was able to grasp the fact that what she’s doing is fitness testing him and he’s failing, and that’s why she’s been feeling a bit discontented and acting bitchy.

    So just telling girls to get married and to obey their husbands doesn’t totally solve the discontentment problem. Young men desperately need to be told that they are supposed to be in charge and BE obeyed.

    Obedience and demanding obedience are two sides of the same coin and without one side, the whole thing falls apart. It just leaves everyone frustrated and discontented.

    Of course, I totally blame feminism for this problem.

  34. Kruin says:

    @Sunshine Thirty

    Are you sure that your daughters really want the man to take control? And then she will submit peaceably? Women claim they want that but I wonder…

    By the way, that didn’t happen with Adam and Eve. Remember, she fell first and she shit tested him while he was still without sin. So the idea that a woman will obey the “perfect man” cannot be demonstrated.

    Aren’t wives counseled by good priests/ministers/parents/friends NOT to nag/shit test their husband and encourage him instead?

    A man won’t be perfect every moment of his life. Does that give his wife the right to blitz him with more problems via nagging that men must face going out into the world every day of his life?

  35. Kruin says:

    Sorry, one more comment to Sunshine Thirty.

    I’m Catholic. Taking inspiration from saints let’s look at St. Monica. She was married to a brute of a man. On his deathbed, the man converted after an agonizing marriage full of discontent (mainly due to the husband, not the wife.)

    Guess who her son was? St. Augustine of Hippo. A Great Doctor of the Church.

    My point? Women are not these purely reactive creatures who have no intelligent faculties. They have free will. Stop blaming all of the problems on your daughters fiance. How she reacts to his “failures” is her decision and her’s alone.

    I’m willing to bet her fiance did attempt to call her out once or twice but she didn’t react well to it and made him regret it forever. There’s too many times that happens to men out there. They do want to lead but the women just don’t want to submit.

  36. Jack Russell says:

    USSA wymyn’s soccer team wants “pay equity” and is suing FIFA.
    https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/Soccer/2019/03/08/Womens-national-team-sues-US-Soccer-wants-equal-pay/4131552069729/
    They wouldn’t beat the U-17 boys teams. They only get a small fraction of the 500 million viewers the men get. FIFA goes by revenue and viewers. When they can play that well then they can have “equal” pay.

  37. pb says:

    “A young woman learning to be a practical nurse or registered nurse might see more of it, but still not to the extent of a liberal arts major at some radfem infested school. ”

    I thought nursing students were among the most likely to ride the carousel for a while.

  38. Scott says:

    SSM-

    What you are describing is a real conundrum for fathers of daughters. It runs the risk of sounding like a “man up” rant. But that does not make it untrue.

    I have no guaruntee that my daughters will run into men who have trained to be the “flip side” of all the submission/headship talk that we in this part of the internet talk about all the time.

    My best hope is that they will meet and bring home young men who have the potential to be formed into the heads of household we all want–despite the near certainty of their deep blue pill training. And I will try to be very open to this, and very gracious about it when they come along.

    It’s the best I can plan for.

  39. American says:

    @Poptarts: “Being discontented is what makes women happy though. As long as there is a shot at alpha male everything is fine. Even if no shot at alpha male, gossiping about said alpha male makes feminism worth it. I think people are confused about what women want. This IS what they naturally want most.”

    ^ Haha, I know right. They’ll walk over the burning embers of a great civilization they murdered, even knowing the replacement civilization is far far worse for their progeny, as long as they can have that!

  40. Anonymous Reader says:

    Jack Russell
    USSA wymyn’s soccer team wants “pay equity” and is suing FIFA.

    I have read an unsupported claim that the men’s World Cup was worth something like $5 billion in media (TV, radio, print) while women’s World Cup was close to $200 million.
    Popcorn, please.

    pb
    I thought nursing students were among the most likely to ride the carousel for a while.

    I have no idea. It is merely one example of an alternative. Living at home while studying a career that demands a lot of work is one prudent way to protect a daughter, agreed? There are no certainties in this, but parents can tilt the odds in their favor by rejecting the standard route of sending their daughters hundreds of miles away to Enormous Party U to take courses in “oppression studies”. I know people who have done / are doing this. It is not the only way, but it is one way.

  41. Scott says:

    I have no idea. It is merely one example of an alternative. Living at home while studying a career that demands a lot of work is one prudent way to protect a daughter, agreed? There are no certainties in this, but parents can tilt the odds in their favor by rejecting the standard route of sending their daughters hundreds of miles away to Enormous Party U to take courses in “oppression studies”. I know people who have done / are doing this. It is not the only way, but it is one way.

    I have several “conservative” friends whose daughters are off to college and now they are shocked, SHOCKED I SAY at the bizarre things they are coming home with.

  42. Scott says:

    One such couple is kind of like me. They were originally from pretty lower middle class upbringings, did the whole “bootstrap” thing, made a better life for themselves and now their own daughters come home from college to insult them by calling them greedy, privileged deplorables.

  43. anonymous_ng says:

    I have two daughters, and if their mother hadn’t decided we were getting divorced, we might have had a chance. As it is, they aren’t drink/drug/sex/tattoo queens, but one thinks she is some weird kind of sexuality, M/F/M pretending to be F, and F pretending to be M, and the other very definitely doesn’t want to date a man she can’t control, and thinks it unconscionable that the popular will is thwarted by the electoral college. In that I failed to ensure they got an education.

    My only real hope for the girls is that they fall in love with men like their brother who I have managed to raise well. He would fit in here, and more than a few of his friends too.

  44. anonymous_ng says:

    Scott, those parents should remove their financial support from those daughters. IMO.

    I told my eldest straight up that I couldn’t stop her from living in the brothel cum opium den called the dormitories at the local university, but I wasn’t about to pay for it. So, she lived with her mother. It was the best I could do.

  45. @Scott

    I have no guaruntee that my daughters will run into men who have trained to be the “flip side” of all the submission/headship talk that we in this part of the internet talk about all the time.
    My best hope is that they will meet and bring home young men who have the potential to be formed into the heads of household we all want–despite the near certainty of their deep blue pill training. And I will try to be very open to this, and very gracious about it when they come along.

    This was exactly our thinking too.

    Things we have learned so far about young Christian men who will come courting your daughters (hope you find this helpful):

    1. They are virtually 100% guaranteed to be infected with “weak men screwing up feminism” Christianity, at least around here. The Univ where our daughter met her fiancé is filled with kids coming out of big “conservative” evangelical churches where the man-up rant is alive and well.

    2. There’s a decent chance they will have grown up without a father in the home and possibly not in their lives at all. This is a curse but the small blessing in it is that you, the future father-in-law, can “red-pill” (or whatever people are calling the truth now) the guy. Fun times at the range, etc…

    3. It is reported to us by our daughter and her friends from Campus Ministry that young Christian men are absolute horn-dogs and will push just as hard for sex as their non-Christian counterparts (despite what you might read, it does not seem to be the case that 20% of the boys get 80% of the girls). You can pretty much count on the fact that the Christian guy your daughter marries will not be a virgin.

    Basically what you can expect is a young man who loves Jesus but smokes dope, is sexually active, and is totally “blue-pilled” (or whatever we’re calling delusional thinking now).

    The young women are rebellious and discontented and the young men are hedonistic and placating. Absolutely everybody under the age of 25 has major role confusion and Christianity as practiced in the West has not NOT helped them, even though the answers are literally sitting right in plain sight in the Bible.

  46. I would not agree that men as a whole are complicit for allowing it.

    95% of American men are complicit in supporting the value system that lead to this. Zippy Catholic was completely right in pointing out that our Liberal commitments inexorably lead us to this point.

    On a basic level, that’s why statements like “Libertarianism would solve this” are so moronic. There is no such thing as a tame liberalism which leaves men “free and equal” and doesn’t ultimately lead to a complete revolt against the man by his household who are merely applying the standards he applies to other men in authority to him.

    I have several “conservative” friends whose daughters are off to college and now they are shocked, SHOCKED I SAY at the bizarre things they are coming home with.

    They’d have been even more shocked if their daughter wanted to get married and have babies at 18-20. They’d have been downright horrified that their daughter might be happily dependent on a man.

    2500 years ago, they’d have left their child with the priest and been shocked to find their child incinerated in the furnace before the altar.

  47. Scott says:

    SSM-

    The hedonism and pleasure seeking is not just guys under 25. Since I became sexually active at 16, i have (almost) never modified my behavior regarding sex whether I was presently calling myself “Christian” or not. The only exception was during the dating/engagement to my first wife, where we “technically” waited. I was on N=6 at the time, and she was on 0.

    In fact, all the guys at Pepperdine–a “Christian” university where she went–were doing the same thing. It did not occur to any of us to justify it, explain or feel bad about it.

  48. Cane Caldo says:

    @SM

    I told my girls the same, but we have encountered a small problem with that good advice: young Christian men are in no way shape or form prepared to BE obeyed by their women. They are in fact completely unaware that they are supposed to be in charge and to be obeyed.

    I hear you and I know it’s true because I was that small problem. My comment to Larry was more concerned with his claim that we are all complicit. I know how complicit I was, but I do not believe he knows how complicit he is.

    The penalties the young man could pay, if he gets his behavior wrong according to the norms of your daughter or their social group, are totally out of proportion with the benefit of telling a young woman to quit pouting and get with the program.

  49. pb says:

    “I have no idea. It is merely one example of an alternative. Living at home while studying a career that demands a lot of work is one prudent way to protect a daughter, agreed? There are no certainties in this, but parents can tilt the odds in their favor by rejecting the standard route of sending their daughters hundreds of miles away to Enormous Party U to take courses in “oppression studies”. I know people who have done / are doing this. It is not the only way, but it is one way.”

    Ah, but a career for what future? It depends on what one thinks the future will be like. If we are in collapse (see John Michael Greer, Mountain Guerilla, James Howard Kunstler, others), preparing for a different future might be a better choice, but it would require a radical change in expectations and preparations.

    As for nursing students, this isn’t from personal observation but from what I’ve read in the manosphere.

  50. BillyS says:

    Dave,

    While Christians can make themselves ready for revival, it is still ultimately in His hands. We cannot make it happen, no matter what we do. We can seek to live well and we should, but a revival is just like any other miracle, it is outside human activity.

    Waiting for church leaders to kick this off will mean it won’t come either. Too many need the deep conviction of a revival that they are enabling sin in these areas. They don’t even know they need it.

    Many do also pray for revival, even spending meetings doing that, but it still is not enough. It is easy to look at past revivals and note the prayers before it, but prayers have gone on all the time and giving credit to the prayers is not proper.

    We all should seek to continually wash our own hearts and minds of course and I could certainly agree with that. I would also agree it does not happen much today.

  51. BillyS says:

    Sunshine,

    Are you really going to claim that young women in college are really even seeing most of the young men around them? How do you get your numbers there? It is quite likely the ones they find attractive are the horn dogs you note, but I bet they completely ignore or quickly get turned of from the ones who don’t.

    You can’t remove the problem by pointing at guys and blaming them. Women are pulled to that like catnip, as the saying goes.

    I would almost bet you are completely ignoring the same men that never get in your daughter’s vision. They are not as bad as you claim, but no one sees them, so they continue life alone.

    Many of them may even be attractive, but they don’t act like a player and may even not have wonderful social skills, so they get ignored, even if they may get an initial interest based on looks.

    Perhaps I really am a special snowflake in that my N was 0 before I married and remains at 1 now. I am not of this generation, but I do recall hearing a Christian couple (part of FCA in high school) tell another Christian guy that you just couldn’t stay away from sex, even though he didn’t agree. I didn’t agree either, but I lacked the social skills to even have a serious risk of that. I likely could have fallen into it a couple of times, but God kept me pure, though it was extremely lonely.

    I bet a lot more young men like me exist than even many of you realize. Not all of us acted on our impulses.

  52. @CC

    The penalties the young man could pay, if he gets his behavior wrong according to the norms of your daughter or their social group, are totally out of proportion with the benefit of telling a young woman to quit pouting and get with the program.

    I’ve thought about this problem a lot. The best I can come up with is to make sure he is at least aware that he’s supposed to be obeyed and that he should let the girl he’s thinking of marrying know that he has certain expectations for her behavior, which include her treating him respectfully.

    But you are right: he could potentially be ostracized. Jesus told us that would happen to us sometimes when we have the courage to stand up for the truth.

    We can and should tell girls to quit pouting and get with the program, but if the young men don’t enforce expectations on the girls’ behavior, the girls are in for a real struggle because they won’t respect or be attracted to guys they can push around. It’s not an either/or situation but rather a both/and situation. God gave roles and responsibilities to both sexes and things get seriously messed up when either one of the sexes doesn’t fulfill their roles.

    To my mind, there is not much men can currently do to change the legal and political situation here, but what they can do to stop being complicit in all this is insist on the whole respect and obedience thing before agreeing to get married.

    But like I was saying, not 1 in 100 even knows the relevant Scripture as far as I can tell. Or if they do, their understanding of it has been twisted by cowardly pastors. Try asking a 20-year-old Christian college guy if he is even aware that the Bible says his wife is supposed to submit to him. “Yep, we’re supposed to submit to one another!” 🙄

  53. RigsOfChad says:

    I’m a guy in my late 20’s with N=0. Most of my friends and acquaintances are now alpha-types with N counts ranging from the 10’s to the high 200’s. A recent shift in my social circle exposed me to alpha guys and college aged girls in our author’s home state on a regular basis. I was indifferent to religion before this, but seeing the brand of “Christianity” being discussed in this thread first-hand has changed my perspective drastically. I have started devoting more time to religious discovery after trying to come to terms with my experiences of late. My goal is to find a prospective wife but I am finding it difficult to remain hopeful. Content and comments on this site have been enlightening, so thank you all for the discussions.

  54. locustsplease says:

    Every dam woman i meet reminds me that girls are a hand full and i need to watch out when mine grows up. Yeah right those are single mother and female led household problems! I must just b a natural at telling people with shitty attitudes NO! The humanity. How can you possibly get bossed around emotionally by a child whom you raised that at one point could not talk you taught everything now your giving them a car and money and they tell you what the hell is going on. I dont think so every single moms got this problem. Parents born with testicles dont ever seem to have this problem with out female influence.

    You tell a little girl no and you have a wife she says jeez dont b so hard on her! Constant usurping of male authority is in 95% of all women. I told a single mom this and she said oh you just wait. I told her i didnt deal with bratty teen age girls when i was a teenager in my 20s and i dont now. Especially after seeing bratty teenage girls grow up to b miserable feminists i really am willing to do whatever i can to not let that happen.

    My sisters were just spoiled with praise cash respect affirmation support you name it for everything they did to tote the feminist line. They did nothing around the house and i was the slave at two. Now they are obviously miserable. My mom has promoted them to b childless and now is trying to get them to change. And they are addicted to their worthless lifestyles. Im the only one who sees their destination.
    CATS!

  55. TheTraveler says:

    @BillyS

    You are referring to “good guys” who get “friendzoned,” a term many women loathe for its accuracy and implicit criticism of women for using decent fellows.

    Friendzoned young men treat women decently, and mainly just want feminine companionship. Everyone laughs at them: their women “friends,” their equally-luckless peers who should know better, and especially the worthles alphas who belittle them viciously for lack of “game” and inability to “get laid.”

    Woe betide such decent guys asking a young lady “friend” on a date-date. Young woman response: tantrum (“How could you think that about us?!?” as though he’s made an improper suggestion), blaming/faulting (“I’m not the kind of girl you talk to that way”), and “You’re a nice guy, but…”

    I speak from experience–my own, and that of others– 3 decades old. It was already well underway in the 80s.

  56. BillyS says:

    Traveller,

    That is true as well, but they still don’t see some men. Not literally of course, but you should get the idea.

    I was responding to Sunshine’s claim that “they all do it”. Reminds me when my exwife couldn’t believe men couldn’t get all the sex they wanted. She just could not see the problem. She figured she had to fight off enough that guys should have no problem, right?

    I am about the same amount out of date as you are, so perhaps all young men really are getting sex now, but I doubt it.

  57. Bart says:

    @RigsOfChad

    Please don’t despair. If you’ve been lonely, you might not realize many men have walked a similar path and that, in your isolation, you didn’t realize it. To date you’ve avoided most of the pitfalls of girl-drama and abuse and should see the field shift in your favor soon, if you haven’t already. Follow the Word as best you can, and don’t be afraid to set high standards for the woman you would marry. You will be less vulnerable, and she will treat you better. If, despite your best efforts, you don’t find a woman who lives up to your standards, walk your path with God knowing you did what you could.

  58. Oscar says:

    @ Novaseeker

    Elections are no answer, Larry.

    It amazes me how many men in the Christian androsphere don’t get this.

    The politics, the universities, the popular culture; they’re all symptoms of the actual disease, which is spiritual. We’re watching Romans 1 unfold before our eyes, and too many of us are still living under the delusion that they can reverse course by voting for the right people.

    The only way we reverse this course is by cutting out the rot in the church. And we start repenting of our own sins, then shepherding our families. If each of us did that, we could “turn the world upside down”, like the Apostles did.

    Think about how many broken, wounded people there are going to be in 20 years. The darkness is deepening, but that makes even the faintest light appear brighter.

  59. Oscar says:

    @ Sunshine Thiry

    The best I can come up with is to make sure he is at least aware that he’s supposed to be obeyed and that he should let the girl he’s thinking of marrying know that he has certain expectations for her behavior, which include her treating him respectfully.

    Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to have done all that, and still be treated with disrespect, disobedience, rebellion, and contentiousness, and know that there’s nothing you can do to correct the situation?

  60. Red Pill Christianity says:

    AnonReader, it is not Black Pill or losing hope/despairing to state that I would simply hate having a daughter ion today’s world. It is simply a statement of a personal opinion. Good news is that if I decide to have a kid at some point in the future, it is a 97% chance it will be a male child, since you can estimate the odds by looking at the paternal line of the father. There was a website where you entered the paternal line’s children for as many generations (whether boy or girl and if you know what gender kids the males in the tree had) and as you could and it gives you a rating. The maternal line has 0 to do with gender decision on conception, only things like whether child will be twins, etc.

    I am simply stating a fact that raising a daughter in America today sounds like a nightmare, given the cultural influences and damage done to our girls through schools, social media, music, culture, TV, and 24/7 indoctrination of all kinds. If she goes to college (and believe me, almost all middle class and up kids DO go to college, even if for a semester or two), except massive feminist and anti-American indoctrination.

    It is Red Pill to state obvious facts and accept and acknowledge the magnitude of the tasks fathers have today. They first have to navigate a marriage (if they go that route), then they have to try to stay at the home and not be forced out by baby’s mamma/wife, then they have to either raise a 4th class citizen (male child, 5th class if white male), or a daughter, who will be trained from day 1 by our society, media, schools, and more to hate all men, especially her father and husband.

    These are facts. Accepting the reality helps us understand what is ahead and access the costs of fatherhood today. As Christians, especially Red Pilled Christians, we should all understand reality before making decisions, because consequences for men today have never been more serious and society as a whole, has never been more hostile to the average Christian male, ever, in world history. The Roman Emperors that persecuted Christians were kind compared to Family Courts judges of today and the unfair policing that acts more like an anti-male gestapo than a neutral investigative/enforcement organization.

  61. Red Pill Christianity says:

    okrahead says: Part of the red pill ( a really big part) is learning to quit taking responsibility for other people’s bad actions. I do what I can to warn any who will listen not to follow the gestalt; I do not accept responsibility when they refuse to listen.

    Thank you for saying that OkraHead. I know people like CaptainCapitalism takes a ton of heat for his “enjoy the decline” attitude. But being Red Pilled is understanding and accepting realities we do not like. That is why taking The Red Pill is so hard for so many.

    I can say in my small group meetings (in person), when we have some new persons coming in, we always ease them into the Red Pill, because we know many men refuse to accept reality and would actually prefer to live in ignorance. They also take responsibility for things they cannot control, which is absurd. How can a 30-year old man be responsible for “being weak and allowing feminism to take over” when most Feminist victories took place before he was even born or was a young child? It is just preposterous.

    For example, one guy who was briefly in my group (from an invite by a current participant) told us his wife miscarried her pregnancy again (second time). We were all sorry to hear that, but one of the usual in the group asked “did you go with her to the doctor to get this bad news?” And he said “no” because he had been working 60h or more a week. Immediately my radar went on and so did some of the guys. Because his wife was pregnant again, we urged him to go with her to all her doc appointments. He told us right there and then she refused when he offered to go with her, because “you work too much you do not need more stress”. Although it sounded reasonable, it makes no sense from a woman’s point of view. Women WANT men to be involved, they want someone there with them. We ended up red-pilling this guy that something was suspicious and after he came to a 2nd meeting a couple weeks later, he found out she went to an abortion clinic!!!! Then she told him she miscarried again later that night.

    The guy told us he felt responsible for the fact that his wife was now a “serial killer of children” and he felt like he failed. We told him to confront her publicly in front of her friends. He never came back to meetings after that, but we learned through his friend in our group that the guy (to our great amazement), he confronted her about abortions and one of her friends told him she knew about the abortions and was surprised that he did not know. Wife’s friend said she thinks she got abortions because the baby was not his!!!! We found out the guy is still married to this lying baby killer and that he blames himself for this tragedy.

    We reached out to this poor soul via e-mail and asked him to discuss anonymously on my site (now deplatformed) but he never did. Last I heard, he was still with her because he feels responsible for it all. She blames him for it all and denies affairs being reason for abortions, but the wife’s own friends confirmed she had been cheating when he confronted her publicly.

    Yes’ the man does have some responsibility to manage his marriage and household, but when he is forced to work 60 hours or more a week to prepare for a baby and when you have a society where women can go out, cheat, kill babies, and then get alimony for years and more than 1/2 a man’s wealth, it sure is hard to blame the guy for it all. These are societal ills that not a single man is responsible for. That is the truth and that is what belong Red PIll is all about.

  62. white says:

    I see the urge to blame men for society’s problems is strong even in this part of the internet

  63. Oscar says:

    Off Topic: To end “fatphobia”, we need to dismantle Western Civilization

    https://www.inquirer.com/news/sonalee-rashatwar-fat-positivity-body-acceptance-sexuality-therapy-20190703.html

    Her perspective, one of a fat South Asian nonbinary person, has gained enhanced notoriety through Instagram, where she often posts telegram-like advice to the account @thefatsextherapist. Last July, she celebrated 4,000 followers. Today, her follower count approaches 20 times that.

    Hang on a second… if “she” is “nonbinary”, then how exactly is “she” a “she”? I’m so confused.

    Rashatwar traces contemporary fatphobia to colonial brutality and how enslaved people were treated. Citing researcher-advocate Caleb Luna, Rashatwar said curing anti-fatness would mean dismantling society’s foundation: “I love to talk about undoing Western civilization because it’s just so romantic to me.”

    As many have pointed out here, the end result of feminism really will be grass huts and savagery.

    When this morbidly obese feminist goes blind, and/or needs to have parts amputated due to diabetes, I bet she’ll demand that the rest of us pay for it.

  64. jg1 says:

    Sorry, didn’t mean to derail the thread, but, you guys are correct about the decline of the SBC. This a critique on this years annual general meeting….

  65. Scott says:

    I think we should also dismantle indoor plumbing, manned space flight, eating utensils, heating and AC, the most beautiful music ever composed, jurisprudence and rule of law, the scientific method, life saving medical procedures, electricity, clean water, animal husbandry, the monogamous lifelong nuclear family ideal…

  66. Novaseeker says:

    The hedonism and pleasure seeking is not just guys under 25. Since I became sexually active at 16, i have (almost) never modified my behavior regarding sex whether I was presently calling myself “Christian” or not.

    In fact, all the guys at Pepperdine–a “Christian” university where she went–were doing the same thing. It did not occur to any of us to justify it, explain or feel bad about it.

    Yes.

    I think this has to do with most Christians putting “relationships” into the “practical life” box, rather than the “spiritual life” box. That is, there are areas in life where one acts primarily in a practical way, in accordance with the ways of the world, more or less — things like job interviews, career advancement, financial planning/investing, home buying, health/fitness, etc. These are areas where Christians, primarily, behave entirely like non-Christians, and think nothing of it — they are practical decisions that are made in the context of a human society and culture that has its own ways of doing things, and therefore if one wishes to achieve goals, prosper, advance and so on in the context of that culture, one follows that culture’s norms and rules in order to do so.

    Relationships are trickier, because Christianity has a lot to say about sex and sexual morality (and not a lot to say about, say, job interviews, weight training techniques or investment strategy details). But it is also an area where if one does not abide by the rules/norms of the society at large, one will suffer dramatically in one’s ability to achieve one’s goals in the area of relationships. Add to this the fact that humans all have libidos, and that these are among the stronger animal drives in people, especially in younger men, and you have a recipe for mass abandonment of the Christian “rules” around sex when it comes to relationships/dating/”courtship” and the like.

    There are some people who opt out. I was one of them — probably I was able to do it because of the fairly strong Irish Catholic background I had growing up, such that even when I walked away from practicing the faith in my 20s, I didn’t walk away from the sexual rules — they were kind of imprinted on me in a deep way. The cost of this was very high. It cost me over the course of the years between 15 and the time I was married in my late 20s about 6 relationships. Women simply dropped out of the relationship if it became clear that sex was not going to happen … women may not be the “horndogs” that young men are, with their very high levels of Testosterone, but young women also are not generally willing to go sexless for an extended period of time in a relationship in today’s culture, either, whether they are Christian or not — and, in fact, because almost every other guy, Christian or not, is trying to get into their panties from day one, the fact that you are NOT doing this is a “red flag” for her (yes, even for a Christian woman), because it may mean you are not that into her, or you are gay, or what have you. It leads to a lot of practical problems in relationships in this culture if you are not going to have sex before you are married, even if both parties are Christians. So, yes, there is a substantial cost exacted for following the moral rules and not having sex before you are married. Most people won’t do it, and it’s perfectly understandable to me why they don’t. Like I say, I would have been the same if I didn’t have that strong imprinting from when I was a child — it certainly wasn’t because I had a stronger sense of discipline or self-control than anyone else, that’s for sure.

    —-

    Friendzoned young men treat women decently, and mainly just want feminine companionship.

    Friendzone is a problem that is created entirely by the guys who find themselves there. Women aren’t forcing men into friendzones. What happens is that men approach women wanting to be their “friends” as a way of getting close to them and being able to spend time with them, even though their interest is not “friendly” but “romantic/sexual”. They don’t disclose the latter up-front, generally, because they are frightened of being rejected, so they approach under the guise of friendship and then try to flip the script later on, once they have more comfort doing so because of their rapport with the woman. This is a problem entirely created by the guy, not the girl. The solution is for the guy to assess from moment one whether he is sexually/romantically interested, or not, and if he is, approach on that basis and not a “friend” basis. If you do it the other way around, you really *are* being deceitful from the girl’s point of view.

    Do women misuse orbiters? Yes, they do. Some of them are very exploitative about it, too — look at Instagram. Instagram is almost 100% young women and their armies of orbiters. But the friendzone/orbiting is a problem that men create by approaching women as friends, when they want more than friendship, to begin with. And therefore the solution is easy — don’t approach a woman as a friend if you are attracted to her as more than a friend. Done. No more friendzone for you. Problem solved.

    Women are responsible for a lot of crappy behavior in today’s sexual and relationship marketplaces, but they aren’t responsible for the friendzone. That’s a prison that has been entirely created by men and their fear of approaching women directly.

  67. Scott says:

    Friendzone is a problem that is created entirely by the guys who find themselves there. Women aren’t forcing men into friendzones. What happens is that men approach women wanting to be their “friends” as a way of getting close to them and being able to spend time with them, even though their interest is not “friendly” but “romantic/sexual”. They don’t disclose the latter up-front, generally, because they are frightened of being rejected, so they approach under the guise of friendship and then try to flip the script later on, once they have more comfort doing so because of their rapport with the woman. This is a problem entirely created by the guy, not the girl. The solution is for the guy to assess from moment one whether he is sexually/romantically interested, or not, and if he is, approach on that basis and not a “friend” basis. If you do it the other way around, you really *are* being deceitful from the girl’s point of view.

    This is brilliant, and at the same time risks being perceived as “man up” or something.

    You cannot–CAN NOT–work your way into a womans sexual side by starting out as friends and then hoping hoping it develops into something else. This is one of the most important lies regular guys are told their whole lives. She is either into you or she is not, and will give you signals as to which one is true from the first few minutes. Its up to you at that point to decide what you want to do with that information. This doesn’t make women “bad” or “mean” or whatever. It’s just hard wiring–the way the world works type stuff.

    The opposite is possible however. A female friend who all the sudden sparks something more in a man is totally possible, but I will lay money down on the fact that she had a crush on him the whole time anyway.

  68. Oscar says:

    @ Scott

    I think we should also dismantle indoor plumbing, manned space flight…

    Male chauvinist pig!

  69. Oscar says:

    @ Scott

    The opposite is possible however. A female friend who all the sudden sparks something more in a man is totally possible…

    If she wasn’t physically attractive enough to “spark something” in him in the first place, chances are it won’t happen.

  70. purge187 says:

    “While Christians can make themselves ready for revival, it is still ultimately in His hands.”

    Ain’t gonna happen. The more time passes, the more I become convinced that certain civilizations and certain people – myself being one of them – have been destined to fail.

  71. Lexet Blog says:

    If you have daughters, why are you waiting on them to find mates, when it’s the role of the father? Most red pill dads want to half ass their role as fathers.

  72. Scott says:

    Lexet-

    Imagine you are a dad with daughters. You live in anytown, USA. It doesn’t matter if its Helena Montana, or Los Angeles, California.

    You have found precisely two families with kids around the same age as yours who appear to be amenable to “red-pill” or “traditionalist” or whatever we call it ideas. You spend time with them socially, but you also have other friends and professional acquaintances who you must deal with in order to live and work.

    Occasionally, you test the waters with the mom and dad from the two families you identified by sharing a Dalrock post, or something like that. You email it to them, or just bring it up in private. Things get a little weird after that, so you cool it and go back to talking about Trump and immigration or whatever.

    Your daughter(s) are growing up fast in this environment. They sense the anxiety you have over their spousal prospects, but they have access to the surrounding culture through ballet, piano lessons, even the other homeschool families are not hard core traditionalists. They also have their basic firm ware operating.

    The idea of collaborating with other families on match making seems so far away in this context. Picking your daughters husbands for them is a pipe dream unless you have moved to a closed community somewhere. You are an all cash entity. You have no bills, you barter, you are off the grid. You have no use for the society around you.

    What SSM, Cane, Oscar and others like us are doing is trying to increase the odds for the best possible outcome within the real conditions on the ground.

  73. theShield220 says:

    I have a bunch of daughters, and I get the inverse of this comment all the time: “Oh-hohoho, you just WAIT.”

  74. Spike says:

    If Larry Kummer’s article were a national report-card, written by an official government institution and peer-reviewed, it would set of alarm bells at the highest levels. Governments would be told to “do something”, which would undoubtedly consist of re-doubled efforts to make girls feel good about themselves and for boys to be cleansed of that “toxic masculinity” that so torments them.

    I’m reading this article while on holidays, after having binge-watched 2 series of European shows about what life was like under Communism. Under Communism, anyone parting from established orthodoxy would be imprisoned in a psychiatric institution for “paranoid delusions” regarding the Utopian society. Anyone knowing what Communism was like and can see the parallels under the new Feminist -LGBTIQ Regime can see that those parallels are chilling.

    This is not a good social prognosis. We are doomed, sure, from a situation that can only be remedied by supernatural means.

  75. Gunner Q says:

    Larry Kummer:
    “Now for the terrible news: we are complicit for allowing it.”

    No.

    Novaseeker:
    “People *did* resist. It simply did no good.”

    Yes.

    Poptart:
    “Research what happened with Prop 187 in California in 1994 if you think voting works.”

    YES!

    okrahead @ July 8, 2019 at 4:22 pm:
    “Do I get a vote on abortion?
    Do I get a vote on gay marriage?
    The list goes on…..
    Society: “Bend the knee to Baal.”
    Okrahead: “No.”
    Larry K: “All these people bowed the knee to Baal so you are responsible.”
    Okay Larry…. what’s your answer? What are YOU going to do? Put up or shut up.”

    Yesyesyesyes

  76. Oscar says:

    @ Scott

    What SSM, Cane, Oscar and others like us are doing is trying to increase the odds for the best possible outcome within the real conditions on the ground.

    There’s a group in which I’m happy to be included. And yeah, I have five daughters, and four sons, so this is kind of a big deal to me.

  77. Oscar says:

    @ Spike

    Anyone knowing what Communism was like and can see the parallels under the new Feminist -LGBTIQ Regime can see that those parallels are chilling.

    Having actually lived under Communism (although only as a child) I can verify that this is true.

    This is not a good social prognosis. We are doomed, sure, from a situation that can only be remedied by supernatural means.

    I believe this is also true.

    Look gents, we didn’t get here by natural means. We’re not getting out of this mess by natural means. This is – at it’s core – a spiritual rot, and all the clown-world insanity that we see is a symptom of the “depraved mind” (Romans 1:28) that results from that spiritual rot.

    Let’s face it; we’re living in Babylon.

    Therefore, I think the template we should follow is that which the Holy Spirit, through Jeremiah, gave the Hebrew captives in Babylon in Jeremiah 29.

    4 Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, to all who were carried away captive, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem to Babylon:

    5 Build houses and dwell in them; plant gardens and eat their fruit. 6 Take wives and beget sons and daughters; and take wives for your sons and give your daughters to husbands, so that they may bear sons and daughters—that you may be increased there, and not diminished. 7 And seek the peace of the city where I have caused you to be carried away captive, and pray to the Lord for it; for in its peace you will have peace. 8 For thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Do not let your prophets and your diviners who are in your midst deceive you, nor listen to your dreams which you cause to be dreamed. 9 For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent them, says the Lord.

    Read the whole thing.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah+29&version=NKJV

  78. Frank K says:

    When this morbidly obese feminist goes blind, and/or needs to have parts amputated due to diabetes, I bet she’ll demand that the rest of us pay for it.

    The other day I saw an article (I didn’t save the link) that said that women now are more likely to die of cardiac arrest than men, and of course we have to do something about that!

    So they’re more likely to have a heart attack. Gee, I wonder why? I ask myself, hasn’t it been documented for decades that obesity is in general unhealthy and especially leads to heart disease? But then I remind myself that I live in a world that considers same sex marriage to be normal and that gender is a social construct as well as other Clown World beliefs. So I shouldn’t be surprised that these people think that weighing twice the normal weight is perfectly healthy.

    I have joked in the past that the obesity epidemic will save Social Security by reducing payouts as many recipients will die young and suddenly, Now I’m beginning to wonder if it isn’t a joke.

  79. Damn Crackers says:

    It is painful to read about all these Christians torturing themselves with virginity in their late 20s and older because they cannot find a wife. You have several options in this current time:

    1. Use your celibacy for something good, enter the priesthood or monastery and serve others.

    2. Immediately find overseas/religious order arrangements to marry a young girl from a devout culture/religion who understands about waiting until marriage.

    or 3. Stumble a little. None of you have to be (or can be as perfect as) Christ. Perfection is the enemy of the good. Find a dirty girl to understand the true nature of women. Realize you aren’t perfect. Then you’ll be ready for a “nice” girl to marry who will actually respect you as a man. Sometimes you have to take two steps back to take three steps forward.

    For many of these Christians who have been told the only thing is to wait, find a nice church girl and marry before sex, they don’t understand that this waiting period was never supposed to extend way past puberty. That is just cruel. And, I don’t think Christianity is supposed to be cruel. It’s supposed to be the Good News, not to say it isn’t a tough creed. But, you martyrs all want to wail and carry your cross. I hope you find your solution.

  80. feeriker says:

    It amazes me how many men in the Christian androsphere don’t get this.

    The politics, the universities, the popular culture; they’re all symptoms of the actual disease, which is spiritual. We’re watching Romans 1 unfold before our eyes, and too many of us are still living under the delusion that they can reverse course by voting for the right people.

    Within the American Christian Androsphere this just serves as additional proof (as if any more is needed) that most self-described “Christians” in America are really nothing more than civic nationalists who have painted a thin veneer of churchianity over themselves in order to give their Caesar worship a feeling of righteous holiness.

    “Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.”

    Psalms 146:3 (KJV)

  81. Hazelshade says:

    @RigsofChad

    My goal is to find a prospective wife but I am finding it difficult to remain hopeful.

    I also find it difficult to remain hopeful. I’m your age, single, N=1. I got more interest from women as a hedonistic & placating young blue piller with no knowledge of game. When I discovered the men’s sphere, got serious about Christ, and learned the ropes for Christian marriage interest from women fell to incel levels and has remained there in the grim lonely years since. The difficulty in remaining hopeful is justified, you are not alone in that. I think BillyS is right about invisible men. Still, better in the meantime to have the freedom to be curious and strive for virtue, and better to defy sin and/or the dominion of a contentious woman.

  82. BillyS says:

    Oscar,

    We’re watching Romans 1 unfold before our eyes, and too many of us are still living under the delusion that they can reverse course by voting for the right people.

    I completely agree with this. We have rejected God as the Creator (which is what Romans 1 notes) and gotten all the same bad results. “Live for today” is the core motto, as the Boomer song says. What restraint is needed, even among Christians, if we are just space mush formed into a human shape and not accountable to anyone.

    This has infected churches too, even ones that claim otherwise. It will take one or more shocks to change that, just like it takes multiple shocks to get someone dying back to life in some cases. Some will eventually head those shocks, but many still will not.

    The only way we reverse this course is by cutting out the rot in the church. And we start repenting of our own sins, then shepherding our families. If each of us did that, we could “turn the world upside down”, like the Apostles did.

    Few people did what he did, even in that time. This is something we must keep in mind. Though aiming for that is far better than being complacent.

    Think about how many broken, wounded people there are going to be in 20 years. The darkness is deepening, but that makes even the faintest light appear brighter.

    It will be even more of a mess and many churches, the ones that still exist, will cater even harder to the brief social and entertainment desires of those they reach. Few people really want to know more, but fewer people really want to lead them, to our detriment as a society.

    Oscar,

    Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to have done all that, and still be treated with disrespect, disobedience, rebellion, and contentiousness, and know that there’s nothing you can do to correct the situation?

    Great point. My exwife was calling me “sir” near the end of our marriage, but it was clear it was very sarcastic overall. She only submitted because of my personality, not any innate desire of her own. That was really sad and never challenge by any Christians she knew.

    RPC,

    I agree that taking a realistic view is not as horrible as some claim. The only way to possibly survive is to realize all you face (or as much as you can figure out) and then to work with that. Ignoring things because they are “black pill” is a stupid dangerous move.

    I do not like Captain Capitalism’s idea of “enjoy the decline” however. It is like saying “enjoy the cancer” or “enjoy the alcoholism” or “enjoy the sin”. That is an evil attitude, even if it is in response to the situation.

    “Serving God as faithfully as possible” is a far more correct goal to push. At least “seeking to live a good life in spite of the problems” is far better than the narcissism inherent in the “enjoy the decline” phrase. It is strong rhetoric and I have read that even he doesn’t really live out what the phrase implies, but it is evil to mislead others who will likely take that and live a sinful prodigal son life because of it.

  83. Anonymous Reader says:

    Hazelshade, suggest you look at this book:

    From this man:
    https://deepstrength.wordpress.com

  84. Anon says:

    Related :

    Four men have died since a mining committee stopped meeting on safety matters due to gender quotas :

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/335466/

  85. BillyS says:

    RPC,

    Isn’t it amazing how much women will protect the group and keep a husband in the dark to do that. I got many who refused to talk to me about the poor counsel they gave in the case of my divorce. They do evil and don’t want to own up to it.

    [Pro 30:20 NKJV] 20 This [is] the way of an adulterous woman: She eats and wipes her mouth, And says, “I have done no wickedness.”

    They have all become evil women today, even wives of those in leadership!

    Novaseeker and Scott,

    The problem with friendzoning also lies in the fact that no good instructions/training for younger men is out there on what specifically to do if you are attracted to a woman past friendship. The idea that friends morph into couples is pushed in many areas, so blaming men for not realizing that is foolish is not appropriate either.

    The whole male-female situation is unbalanced and extremely hard to navigate, especially for those who have a desire to stay faithful to God or at least to be moral in general. You can get plenty of advice on how to be a PUA, but little on how to be a godly man that is successful in this area.

    Women are just taking advantage of the situation of course, but they should face shame, at least when confronted by true Biblical teaching. Few do, so they share the blame. Men are definitely stupid as well and we should work to change that, but work on both sides, not just one side.

    You cannot–CAN NOT–work your way into a womans sexual side by starting out as friends and then hoping hoping it develops into something else.

    You can become a beta bucks guy this way though, so it appears to be working at some point, which is a major problem.

    Purge, (about revival)

    Ain’t gonna happen. The more time passes, the more I become convinced that certain civilizations and certain people – myself being one of them – have been destined to fail.

    Those have come in the past at quite surprising times. That is why I assert it is not under human control. Otherwise it would never happen.

    Though it can also end quite quickly, which can be seen when reading what happened after Elijah’s success on Mount Carmel. Everyone there was ready to serve God then, but things quickly went back to the evil direction that never ultimately changed. Jonah in Nineveh is another example.

    Spike,

    Read a bit about China’s Cultural Revolution. That period is also very similar today, though ours is going on much longer and the freaks are not completely in charge yet.

    DC,

    Your 3rd point is just like Job’s wife telling him to “curse god and die” to end his troubles. Not good advice. Some may do that, but it should not be willful at the start or getting out of it may be far harder than you or others expect. God has this thing about willfully deciding to sin, He doesn’t like it at all. We can get reconnected after sin per the Scriptures, but planning to sin is not a good thing.

  86. BillyS says:

    Anon,

    Funny they don’t cry about “gender equality” when talking about 4 men (only men) dying in that case. We should have just as many women dying, right?

  87. Opus says:

    @Novaseeker

    I had no idea that men deliberately seek friendship with females in the hope of obtaining at a later date an upgrade – at least I did not think it common. I always supposed the friend-zone to be a place which is a sort of mortal purgatory – where ex-lovers are sent down to and if you do not care to go there you were just using the said woman for carnal purposes and never cared etc etc. One of my acquaintances by way of example always boasts that he is on good terms with all his former girlfriends. That to me looks like multiple friend-zoning but I do not want to offend his feelings or his delusions by pointing out the obvious. Once in the friend-zone and to avoid the drop to the abyss of darkness one seeks through good works promotion back to the once happy status. I know all about that as it is one of my regrettable weaknesses – but not the other sort of friend-zoning which strikes me as a bit creepy. I could always obtain female interest but not for long (neither sufficiently Beta nor sufficiently Alpha, I suppose).

  88. Durasim says:

    I think Devlin summed it up best:

    The survival of their movement depends on a continuing supply of resentful women who believe their rights are being violated; one can only admit that the principles which buttress the date rape campaign are admirably designed to guarantee such a supply. Feminism is a movement that thrives on its own failures; hence, it is very difficult to reverse.

  89. thedeti says:

    Sunshine Thiry says:
    July 8, 2019 at 8:45 pm

    1. They are virtually 100% guaranteed to be infected with “weak men screwing up feminism” Christianity, at least around here. The Univ where our daughter met her fiancé is filled with kids coming out of big “conservative” evangelical churches where the man-up rant is alive and well.

    2. There’s a decent chance they will have grown up without a father in the home and possibly not in their lives at all.

    Interesting to read this from you, Sunshine. I was sounding the alarms about this at least 5 years ago on your former blogs. Remember me telling you about the wimpy ass pantywaist Ned Flanders/Dennis Rainey lookalikes in poorly fitting khakis who populate our churches?

    3. It is reported to us by our daughter and her friends from Campus Ministry that young Christian men are absolute horn-dogs and will push just as hard for sex as their non-Christian counterparts (despite what you might read, it does not seem to be the case that 20% of the boys get 80% of the girls). You can pretty much count on the fact that the Christian guy your daughter marries will not be a virgin.

    They’ll push for sex but don’t get it. I don’t believe for one minute that these “horndogs” are actually getting sex. Most devout Christian men today wouldn’t know what to do with a girl if she literally threw herself at him. They can’t attract women. Like, not at all. The young women these men go to church with are having sex with men who aren’t in church. They have sex with any men BUT the men they go to church with.

    Basically what you can expect is a young man who loves Jesus but smokes dope, is sexually active, and is totally “blue-pilled” (or whatever we’re calling delusional thinking now).

    I doubt the “sexually active” part. If he’s blue pilled, he doesn’t get sex.

    The young women are rebellious and discontented and the young men are hedonistic and placating. Absolutely everybody under the age of 25 has major role confusion and Christianity as practiced in the West has not NOT helped them, even though the answers are literally sitting right in plain sight in the Bible.

    More like the young women are rebellious, discontented and hedonistic. The young men are placating and absolutely clueless about women.

  90. thedeti says:

    SSM:

    Billy S brings up a good point.

    Sunshine, the only men your daughters and other young “Christian” women are even seeing are the top 20%, most attractive men. They aren’t even seeing or noticing the bottom 80% of men, the true believers, the unattractive men, all of whom live in grinding involuntary celibacy and who can’t get your daughters to even acknowledge their existence. All these men live in the land of

    “just be nice, just be yourself, and someday someone will love you Just For Who You Are! You just wait until you’re 35! What a catch you’ll be then! When these dumb girls are done having sex with Harley and F**buddy and Frank Fratboy and Alan Assistant Pastor and Will Worship Leader, THEN they’ll be with YOU! And you’ll get the BEST PART – their commitment!

    “Yes, it’s true, they’ll have had sex with men much, much more attractive than you and they won’t be attracted to you and won’t want to have sex with you, but hey! You get the honor of supporting them and fathering their children and working yourself into an early grave for them and paying for their therapy and acyclovir prescriptions, while she complains that it’s never enough and acts ungrateful and snarky at you all the livelong day! Such a deal, huh!?”

    Your daughters don’t even notice these men.

  91. Damn Crackers says:

    @BillyS –

    Fine. Follow steps one or two to satisfy your longing for companionship. Which path are you following? Also, everyone willfully sins everyday. It’s just that some sins are worse than others.

  92. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Seeking friendship with a woman, based on common interests was my M.O. when I was young. I figured, get to know her first. Let her get to know you. Perhaps she’ll become interested later on, once she’s gotten to know me.

    And yes, the media is full of dating advice like this. Dating coaches (especially female dating coaches) often advise: “Men, don’t be so aggressive. First, find a common interest with a woman. Join a club or activity where the focus is not on dating, but on the activity. Let her get to know you, etc.”

    Movies and TV series are also full of this message. People start out as friends or coworkers, then fall in love by the end of the film, or over the course of several TV seasons. The Sam and Diane coupling on Cheers. The Mulder and Scully coupling on The X-Files. Joe and Helen on Wings.

    Indeed, these couples often hate each other at first, or perhaps feel nothing. Sam and Diane traded insults. Niles orbited Daphane for many years on Fraiser before Daphane’s indifference turned to love.

    When TV writers pitch projects to producer, they even map out the “hate-turns-to-love” story arcs in their pitches, detailing how many seasons before the couple’s first sex act, their first long term dating, their fist breakup, their eventual marriage (assuming the series lasts that long).

  93. feeriker says:

    I think this has to do with most Christians putting “relationships” into the “practical life” box, rather than the “spiritual life” box.

    “Christians” do this with almost ALL aspects of their lives now. This is largely due to the fact that “spiritual” is, in practical terms, really just a substitute for “emotional.” Once the temporary “buzz high” goes away, that feeling that they mistake for the Holy Spirit or God’s guidance, it’s right back to the wordly pigpen, with “spiritual” a distant memory until something triggers the next buzz high and the cycle starts all over again. Meanwhile, following world’s lead in the leading of one’s life leads to all sorts miserable disaster that could have been mitigated, or even avoided altogether if there had been genuine spiritual commitment.

  94. thedeti says:

    Friendzone is a problem that is created entirely by the guys who find themselves there. Women aren’t forcing men into friendzones. …… they are frightened of being rejected, so they approach under the guise of friendship and then try to flip the script later on, once they have more comfort doing so because of their rapport with the woman. This is a problem entirely created by the guy, not the girl.

    Disagree in part. The entire reason men approach women under the guise of friendship and then try to flip the script is because everyone around them is advising and coaching them to do it this way. Girls tell them to do it this way. Their parents, teachers, mass media – everyone is telling inexperienced men to do it like this. It’s demonstrated in TV and movies: The way you get a girl to like you is you be her friend first. Befriend her, show her what a great guy you are, and she will drop her panties for you. (Hey, it worked like that for John Cusack in every movie he was ever in!)

    So, no, it’s not entirely men’s fault.

  95. Scott says:

    Disagree in part. The entire reason men approach women under the guise of friendship and then try to flip the script is because everyone around them is advising and coaching them to do it this way. Girls tell them to do it this way. Their parents, teachers, mass media – everyone is telling inexperienced men to do it like this. It’s demonstrated in TV and movies: The way you get a girl to like you is you be her friend first. Befriend her, show her what a great guy you are, and she will drop her panties for you. (Hey, it worked like that for John Cusack in every movie he was ever in!)

    So, no, it’s not entirely men’s fault.

    I think what Nova may be trying to say here is that after 40-50 years of input from the culture like this that does not comport with reality, men collectively should conclude that this script is indeed bogus. I watched all those John Cusack movies too. They were really cute. But I eventually noticed that every woman that ever ended up as something romantic/sexual for me was throwing huge IOIs at me from the minute we met. Not one friend ever became a girlfriend.

  96. Poptarts says:

    All this talk about girls and the friendzone is B.S. Seriously…you can totally become friends with a girl before it turning into more later. The only issue LIKE ALWAYS, is how much interest the girl has in you FROM THE START. IF she has interest you can’t fuck it up by being her friend. I’ve known plenty of ALPHAS whose advice was to get to know the girl as a friend first and wait for something to happen. All my girlfriends have come this way. The issue is a girl’s interest in you. The reason it doesn’t work for most guys is the girl wasn’t interested in him anyway and if he came on strong right away, he would get rejected right away. So the friendzone was inevitable for those guys (most guys) or nothing. All this speculation about what a guy should be doing is hilarious. Girls are choosers! Period.

  97. melmoth says:

    @BillyS,

    “I do not like Captain Capitalism’s idea of “enjoy the decline” however.”

    I’ve since lost interest in Cappy because he tends to contradict his own original message. He seems to focus on the decline in a way that leads to anything but enjoyment. But that aside, I think his original idea was really kind of uplifting. It’s not actually ‘enjoying the decline’ but more along the lines of ‘removing yourself from the rotting collective and finding your own way to enjoy life.’ And I think we have been forced to do so. Vote as you will, minimalize your production, and most importantly, get away from the rot and enjoy yourself. Going for a hike is about the best example. That’s just you, the Earth, and God. Just like it would have been 50, 100, 500, 2000 years ago. GET AWAY from a culture that has you in its crosshairs. Not your problem. I think that was his original sentiment.

  98. vandicus says:

    Men can try to do the things the “right way” for decades before realizing they’ve been had. Hell the student loan crisis is another example of people being suckered into something. Too bad so sad doesn’t really rectify the problem.

  99. Novaseeker says:

    I think what Nova may be trying to say here is that after 40-50 years of input from the culture like this that does not comport with reality, men collectively should conclude that this script is indeed bogus. I watched all those John Cusack movies too. They were really cute. But I eventually noticed that every woman that ever ended up as something romantic/sexual for me was throwing huge IOIs at me from the minute we met. Not one friend ever became a girlfriend.

    Yeah. I think there’s a difference between what guys were doing in 1985 and 1995 and what guys of a similar age are doing in 2019. This is the age of Tinder, the wide open internet, etc. Young guys who friendzone today are responsible for their own problems. In 1985 maybe less so because there was much less information available to young men (although one could easily observe that the percentage of guys converting friendships to GFs was tiny and draw his own conclusions at least after a few years of frustration trying to do so).

  100. Anon says:

    BillyS,

    Funny they don’t cry about “gender equality” when talking about 4 men (only men) dying in that case. We should have just as many women dying, right?

    Well, yes. But once you start on that slippery slope, certain omissions of historical fact become particularly startling (and this reveals how petty it is to even think about the differences between ‘waves’ of ‘feminism’, when the FI supercedes all and is as old as humanity itself).

    World War 2 :
    300,000 US Casualties.
    Number of women among them : 16

    VietNam War :
    58,000 US Casualties
    Number of women among them : 8

    So in WW2, 20,000 men died for each woman, and in VietNam, 7500 for each woman.

  101. BillyS says:

    DC,

    My desire for companionship is unlikely to ever get fulfilled, especially at my age. I was left alone and I can’t stomach the choices I face now. Perhaps I could have handled one of these women if I had built a life with her, but going for a huge risk (literally in weight and figuratively in background) is not worth it, as much as I really do want a faithful godly wife.

    Maybe God will surprise me, but I definitely don’t have any faith for that. I am not into believing fairy tails at my age.

  102. sipcode says:

    “As tragic as it is, you have to marvel at the evil elegance of feminism.”

    Yea, like marveling at the efficient machine of the Third Reich.

    The church has elevated that ‘evil elegance’ of the woman to a high-end prostitute …whoring with a god other than of the Scriptures.

  103. Hazelshade says:

    @Anonymous Reader

    Thanks, but I’ve already purchased and read Deep Strength’s book…it earned a prestigious spot on the shelf. As for the recommendations it contains, I’m working on them.

  104. TheTraveler says:

    BLUF: We live in a horrible age when evil seems invincible. Divine involvement must be permitting this unnatural one-sidedness — but it’s easier (and so much more fun!) to blame the victims for not meeting some unreachable standard of morality.

    There seems to be a fair amount of man blaming here right now. What, pray, are we supposed to do? Everything is against us, and those who choose to fight must pick their battles, even so knowing they will almost certainly lose.

    Immutable fact of nature: women are enormously powerful, as they control sex and courtship. Always did, always will; recalcitrant women have brought down empires. Give them temporal power, as we do now, and the result is absolute power, tyranny untempered with logic. Perhaps this awful era will serve as a cautionary tale for millennia to come. Someone has to live in it as “extras”–and we’re it.

    Lots of Christians relishing doom and despair here, casting the Almighty as Zeus, unceasingly throwing lightning bolts at our side for not being perfect enough. They ignore the opposition’s enthusiastic alliance with the Devil.

    If we’re honest, it is infuriating to watch what God has been permitting. The vast, terrible gratuitous suffering for good men leads me to believe we are living a worldwide Book of Job–and like Job, we really don’t deserve it.

  105. TheTraveler says:

    @Anon

    Re:your war casualty statistics

    So feminized is society today, that we are obligated to talk about “the men AND WOMEN who fought and died in WWII.”

    Obscene and appalling, not to mention insultingly unfair to the millions of MEN who served, especially in light of your numbers.

  106. Damn Crackers says:

    @BillyS-

    I sincerely wish you the best on your path. It is nice to know we here can banter back and forth, not always agreeing, and know we’re not alone in Christ.

  107. Oscar says:

    All:

    This is how Aaron Clarey (Captain Capitalism) describes himself.

    Aaron Clarey is the world’s only ballroom dancing, motorcycle riding, mounting climbing, fossil hunting, skirt-chasing economist. He lives a minimalist life style, allowing him the maximum amount of freedom and time to pursue his hedonistic ways.

    Now, if there is no God, then this is absolutely the logical approach to life. However, if God exists, and you’re a believer, then you know that this just one lane on the broad road that leads to destruction.

    Go ahead and follow Clarey if you want, but be aware that God’s Word already warned you about his path, which means that – if you ignore God’s Word, and follow Clarey’s path – you are no different than all the counterfeit Christians we all complain about here.

  108. BillyS says:

    I agree Oscar. The fact he calls himself hedonist should be a warning to anyone who closely follows him.

  109. Just lol says:

    So your claim is that because you did not used to read about unhappy teenage girls, that they didn’t exist?
    Didn’t used to read much about gay people back in the old days; guess they didn’t exist either.

    – A happy grown-ass woman

  110. purge187 says:

    “If we’re honest, it is infuriating to watch what God has been permitting.”

    I’m being honest. Like I said in my post above, I’ve really started questioning if there’s a point anymore.

  111. Frank K says:

    So your claim is that because you did not used to read about unhappy teenage girls, that they didn’t exist?

    There have always been mentally ill/crazy people. The difference is that today we have a bumper crop of them, so much so that many are accepting it as normal.

  112. Name (required) says:

    I want to vote Bob Iger out of office and replace him with a patriarch who is strongly opposed to pedophilia.

    Anyone want to help me out by explaining how I can do that?

    First, you and a million friends each buy 1,000 shares of Disney stock. You’ll have a seat at the table. Get back to me then for step 2.

  113. BillyS says:

    The is difficult as it is Name, but they would then jigger the system so you would lose that seat. Note it is just a seat, not control.

    The system is very rigged. Most people are not committed enough for the long run either, though those that are usually lack the skills to really change things.

    People who led to this rot were committed, but most of them had no families or lousy ones. No wonder evil can win so easily.

  114. TheTraveler says:

    Evil wins because it is tireless.
    Secular explanation: they expend zero mental energy on moral self-discipline, rambling through life leaving a hideous wake.
    Religious answer: they are in league with demons who help them, instead of sapping their energies by tormenting them.

    Goodness is hard.
    Secular: constant self discipline and making moral judgments takes a toll on mental, and thus physical, energy.
    Religious: spiritual battle of fighting off demons, real beings (with no bodies), is exhausting.

  115. Liz says:

    Under stress people don’t rise to the occasion, they sink to their level of training.
    So habit pattern is key. Make “goodness” the habit pattern.

  116. BillyS says:

    Traveler,

    Many evil people today, like the whole non-standard sex ones, don’t have families to care for and thus can spend their time pushing all kinds of wacky causes. Their presence makes them seem more popular than they are.

    Another flaw with modern democracy.

  117. Oscar says:

    @ TheTraveler

    Evil wins because it is tireless.

    Evil wins because it has entropy on its side.

    Every act of good requires that we push the boulder uphill, like Sisyphus. When you push something uphill, you’re moving it from a state of lower energy to a state of higher energy, and that requires work, because you’re driving it against entropy. But no work is required for an object to fall downhill, from a state of higher energy to a state of lower energy, because entropy makes that happen naturally.

    The physical laws of the universe mirror the spiritual laws of the universe. Just as physical entropy naturally moves things from a state of higher energy and order to a state of lower energy and disorder, so spiritual entropy naturally moves everything from a state of morality and order to a state of immorality and disorder.

    Thus, doing good requires a lot of work. Evil requires no work whatsoever. And yet, many people do work towards evil.

    Evil people push the boulder downhill, while good people are pushing the boulder uphill.

    That’s why evil wins.

  118. Opus says:

    @The Traveler

    I was wondering how many women were killed during the 1982 Falklands War – the one we know as The Empire Strikes Back – and I cannot find any indication on-line as to the sexes of the fallen and so I must conclude that all the British servicemen and auxiliaries including three Hong Kong Laundrymen who lost their lives were men – 237 if you trust UK gov.org or 255 if your prefer Wikipeadia. Even so I did manage to find a very long essay about how women were once again the more oppressed sex as a result of the seventy-four days of the war. These people never stop.

    Did you know the English spell Traveler with a double L hence Traveller.

  119. Opus says:

    I rather enjoyed it if I recall correctly for winning is always good – not that like your women’s soccer team facing little Thailand we would gloat – and so it must be true that women are oppressed. How then does Mrs Thatcher ‘s belligerence and against the advice of her advisors – it was as Wellington would have said a damn near-run thing – square with the notion that if we have women in power there will be less war. Maybe there will be – and the invaded will give up without a fight.

  120. Red Pill Christianity says:

    The problem is not (professionally) successful girls, regardless of whether these girls are miserable, broken, happy, or whatever. The problem is that they elevated girls at boy’s expense.

    More precisely, they did not elevate girls; they simply held back boys. To the left, life is a zero-sum game: someone has to be held back so others can be elevated; someone has to lose so someone else can win. They cannot improve everyone; they have to hold some back so others can rise.

    This is not by accident or happenstance; it is social engineering designed from the top of our “elite institutions”. It is well documented in many books (written by women, nonetheless) from Dr. Helen to the “Save The Males” author to the radical leftist HuffPo acknowledge this reality in “Why Boys Are Failing in an Educational System Stacked Against Them”. Heck, even the quasi-Marxist left UK’s The Guardian admits to this reality in a piece by Suze Gage called “If men are ‘failing’ we need to look to the future, not at lazy stereotypes”. This information is everywhere now.

    The fact is simple: Western, most notably, American public schools are purposely withholding things like building blocks, for instance, from young boys with the stated purpose of hindering the boys’ developmental abilities to become engineers, programmers, or architects, for instance. The goal is to purposely “remove the advantage” that boys have over girls in things like engineering, architectural, and other quantitative educational fields. This is not even a secret in academia anymore; it is standard curriculum procedure.
    Question this practice and you are a misogynist who just do not want to see girls reach their full potential. Or worse, you may be called a racist. Scary stuff!

    From grade schools to universities, the public school systems have created programs that discourage boy’s learning abilities and favor girls’ learning skills. For example, classes and chosen textbooks are focused on girls’ interests, which make boys restless and discouraged, so they disconnect and fail. This starts in grade schools, sometimes even in kindergarten. The curriculum hurts boys for the benefits of girls, in some twisted “social justice” mindset.

    And of course, our public schools cannot let any boys slip by despite their best efforts to hold them back. Any boy that shows any defiance to this system or manage to succeed despite all odds against him, there is always good ‘ol Ritalin, an ADD/ADHD drug that will turn the happiest and smartest little boy into an obedient zombie in no time.

    And if parents refuse the Ritalin, the young boy will simply be kicked out of school or parents will have a nice visit by a social worker from the taxpayer-funded “department of children and families”, to investigate “child abuse and neglect”. The social worker will be come in without a warrant with a local armed cop, you know “just in case”.

    Our young boys in public schools are put there to fail. It is by design, one of the most dangerous social engineering experiments in modern world history. An experiment that will destabilize society for decades to come, if not permanently. But by the time the full results of this disaster come in, it will likely be too late for millions of fully-grown men. And believe me our leftist overlords will simply shrug at the disaster they engineered.

    The only successful boys will be kids from the upper-middle class and the elites, who will attend expensive private school focused on performance, not social justice, and the few lucky boys who will get homeschool. Very few boys will ever amount to anything coming out of the “loser factories” (a/k/a/ American “public” education). The majority of our boys will be toast.

    Smart young guys who come out of the Loser Factories and become Red Pilled later on will simply learn to game the system, become slackers, and simply enjoy the decline, which will reduce their frustrations in life as a whole. But that is stealing from their true potential and weakening our society for sure.

    It s not fair, but that is absolutely the case. Denying this reality is simply a blue-pill/delusional way to live. If you can, help your boys after school any way you can, if they are forced to attend a Loser Factory due to economic reasons.

    And yes, women today are unhappier than ever. No matter how much the system is rigged in women’s favor, from criminal and family courts to college admissions to job prospects to chivalry, women are always angry, depressed, or complaining about something. Satisfaction in life comes from doing something great and having a family and a good spouse, not have a worthless degree on a wall or working 65/h week as a corporate slave.

  121. BillyS says:

    I find the ongoing “women in X” efforts to be laughable. They have failed in the past and continue failing, yet they keep getting lots of money and support. The only succeed with a very limited few who benefit greatly.

  122. Red Pill Christian says:

    BillyS says: I find the ongoing “women in X” efforts to be laughable. They have failed in the past and continue failing, yet they keep getting lots of money and support. The only succeed with a very limited few who benefit greatly.

    Think about who is running for President in the Democrat side for 2020 thus far.

    *Beto O’Rourke, an Irishman with a Hispanic nickname speaking Spanish so terribly rehearsed that I had headaches watching that debate. Claim to fame: lost Senate race to Ted Cruz, a guy with 0 charisma, despite outspending Cruz 8-to-1.

    *Stacey Abrahams, not currently running, but everyone expects she will jump in soon. Claim to fame: went to elite University using her race and lost GA gubernatorial race and still claims she is the legitimate governor of the State.

    *Joe Biden, who has gotten every single major foreign policy issue wrong since the 1960s when he first came to DC. Claim to fame: VP to the first 1/2 black Pres, who will not even defend his former VP and “friend” when he was falsely accused of racism by fellow Dems. Biden’s son Hunter made ~$100 million from his dad’s VP “sell out America for cash” deals in China and Ukraine.

    *Kristin Gillibrand, probably the biggest fraudster and phony ever to sit in the US Senate. she was literally handed the safest US Senate seat in America. Claim to fame: She has changed every single political position she has ever had after and will literally say anything to get elected; best friends with Harvey Weinstein and Bubba Clinton.

    I could go on and on.

    My point: America rewards failure. Failing is almost required to run in a Democratic ticket these days. As long as women keep failing at X activity, they will keep getting money, privilege, and special benefits.

  123. TheTraveler says:

    I would argue that “Women in X” is not failing. I think the goal is not so much to advance women as to destroy the influence of men, in particular Christian men of European heritage.

    Tout SJW wimminz as experts in X, then appoint them to bully pulpit positions. Success is displacing men, denouncing male achievement, and throwing entire sectors/professions into turmoil, changing the focus to Social Justice.

    Game, set, match. As our enemies in China, Russia, and the Middle East laugh their heads off at our stupidity.

  124. Red Pill Christianity says:

    NovaSeeker, back on July 9 you posted something truly insightful. I just read it today during lunch. It shocked me as Sunday (yesterday) my “men’s youth group” met and that was exactly the topic we discussed. The FriendZone thing was brought up by one of the guys (as a possible strategy to find a Christian woman in church) at the start and the fact that Christians today DO live and operate under a dual-system where they have the “Christian behavior box” and the “secular box”.

    Me and this other guy who has been a part of the group (a red-pilled lion who will one day take my place) since the early stages shot that down on the spot. I used the example of the TV sitcom “The Big Bang Theory” because the Beta geniuses get used by women constantly. I actually had my “second in command” pull up his phone and searched for videos of BigBang Theory guys being used by women and we pluged it into the monitor in Conference Room and played some clip. Then I moved on to explain Leonard’s (original lead male character) relationship with Penny (the original female lead) in the show is a perfect example.

    Women do not bang or date her “friends”. The “male friend’s” job is mainly to be an emotionalTampon for her problems/complaints when her female friends are tired of hearing about it, and to be used as a cash-lender, gift-giver, and handyman. Some guys are TOLD to become friends with women as a way to their hearts, but that is advice from Boomers who grew up in the idyllic 1950s prosperity-filled, positive, overwhelmingly Christian America, a place with almost 0 diversity. Back in that America, being friends with some girl could lead you to a Christian woman for marriage. Today, you will be used a lender/handyman/emotional ears for an ungrateful woman. There is 0% chance of bang/date, because she is not going to risk ruining it with her free handyman by h00king up and then ending things, ’cause the cash, gifts, and fixes will likely go away.

    This was a Red-Pill fest yesterday, I almost wish I had the whole thing videotaped to share (after putting smileys on member’s faces, of course). It was beautiful. 🙂

    Second, Pepperdine Univ is NOT a Christian University. Even if it was, unless it was a Liberty Univ-style, it is Christian In Name Only (CINO). Pepperdine is as Christian as REGIS, Notre Dame, Harvard, or Gonzaga…. they teach “social justice” (cultural Marxism” openly, push for gaymarriage, abortion, etc. It is probably more secular than a typical Chinese gov-run university.

    Finally, Christian in America are forced to live a dual lifestyle because of our legal system today. Jesus commanded us to “go and make disciples of all nations” (Matthew 28:19) and yet talk about Christ at work, at gov’t office, school, University, etc and you will be fired, given a police-issued Trespassing Warning (return and be arrested), and banned/expelled.

    The dual system has gotten worse over time because Christians in “diverse America” have now been hiding their faith in so many places (work, school, etc) that they begin allowing secular ideas permeate into private areas of their life, like relationships/dating. That is unfortunate.

    One problem, however, is that because women are much more susceptible to cultural influences than men are, act sexually like the Kardashians or any “reality” MTV show. These women want passion, they want drama, they want to do whatever they can for their own selfish desires, because you know… YOLO!

    So Christian men have simply adjusted to the woman’s frame of mind and lifestyle. The Christian guys simply give into their own carnal desires and act accordingly. This was the conclusion of our meeting yesterday. That is the reality of the situation. It is totally red-pilled. I wish I had read your post before today because we would have branched into even more areas. But an awesome post, thank you.

  125. Red Pill Christianity says:

    Bart, we “all” are not guilty of the mess we have today. I was not even born when 2nd wave feminist took hold. That would be like blaming a 19 year old today for Communism taking hold of 1/3 of the planet in the early 20th Century. This Cultural Marxism (feminism) we see today is a result of 100 years of work by the Progressives, Globalists, and the Left. We are simply reacting to it and trying to navigate it.

    Marriage today has become dangerous and a terrible idea for men because women hold all the cards in family court and have all the tools of enforcing her prerogatives by using the police to arrest men under false accusations, for instance. Women also suffer no consequences for her worst behaviors, even when they commit crimes today. Virtually any woman at your job can get you fired by filing an unsubstantiated “sexual harassment” complaint, for instance. She gets preferential treatment in hiring, school admissions, and have the public school system purposely hurt boys to give her an advantage in life (i.e. “fix inequality that men are better in certain sciences, for instance).

    Today’s feminism is like Communism. It is unsustainable and will collapse overtime. Just take a look at Western Europe today, they are about 15-20 years ahead of the US in feminism and secularization. Their societies are slowly collapsing before our very eyes. But just like the fall of Communism, the eventual slow collapse of Feminism will wreck havoc in our society for decades to come, because of mass immigration, economic depression, crime, and even more societal dysfunction.

    BillyS, the entire purpose of my site, RP Christianity, is to have an open, unmoderated discussion about things that would horrify and upset the average church-goer today. But these issues need to be discussed openly, so young men can go forward and survive, and hopefully thrive in this messy time we live in. If one cannot accept reality, that individual is doomed to fail. It is that simple.

    The thing about Captain Capitalism’s idea of “enjoy the decline” is what I call “taking the Black Pill” (some have said that is not the Black Pill and it is something else). Cap Capitalism simply believes America is irretrievably broken and set for decades of Ilhan Omar’s and AOC’s running the country forever, the moment we have an amnesty for the 20-30 million illegals waiting in the wings to vote for gun banners, tax-increasers, and welfare givers.

    Capt believes America will inevitably collapse like the Western Roman Empire did, so he is basically not even worried about it anymore. He is just having a good time, not going to marry, not going to leave any inheritance and will spend everything he can while alive. He is in it for himself.

    That sure is a Black Pill way to live, it is totally giving up any hope things will improve. It is somewhat contrary to Christian belief that “it will all work out in the end”, but that is a choice he made. I am not quite there yet. If an amnesty passes, I am gonna Black Pill and live 100% for myself from that point on because at that point AOC will be President soon and the country will become Brazil in a single Pres Term.

  126. Anonymous Reader says:

    The FriendZone thing was brought up by one of the guys (as a possible strategy to find a Christian woman in church)

    Probably because a popular notion peddled in many churches is “Friends First”. From time to time one can be at a wedding and hear women burbling about how wonderful and happy the marriage will be, “Because they were Friends First!”. Though The Glasses, with perhaps a little Hamsterlation on the side, typically one of two facts becomes clear.

    Either:
    1. She had the hots for him some period of time before he noticed her, and she managed to “just happen” to be anywhere he was & eventually he became attracted to her

    OR

    2. She’s settling for a Beta mule after riding some Alpha ponies on the carousel.

    “Both” is also a possibility.

    Repeat: “Friends First” is popular with the girls young and old, because it justifies settling, and it is sold to men who by some odd coincidence almost always wind up as Beta Orbiters and nothing more.

    It is no coincidence that the women and feminized men who push “Friends First” are very often giving “just Be Yourself” as advice to young, unmarried men. The same mindset is visible.

  127. Red Pill Christianity says:

    Damn crackers said: You have several options in this current time: 1. Use your celibacy for something good, enter the priesthood or monastery and serve others. 2. Immediately find overseas/religious order arrangements to marry a young girl from a devout culture/religion who understands about waiting until marriage.

    or 3. Stumble a little. None of you have to be (or can be as perfect as) Christ. Perfection is the enemy of the good. Find a dirty girl to understand the true nature of women. Realize you aren’t perfect. Then you’ll be ready for a “nice” girl to marry who will actually respect you as a man. Sometimes you have to take two steps back to take three steps forward.

    For many of these Christians who have been told the only thing is to wait, find a nice church girl and marry before sex, they don’t understand that this waiting period was never supposed to extend way past puberty. That is just cruel. And, I don’t think Christianity is supposed to be cruel. It’s supposed to be the Good News, not to say it isn’t a tough creed. But, you martyrs all want to wail and carry your cross. I hope you find your solution.

    Celibacy is a choice. InCel (Involuntary Celibacy) is self-imposed as well, unless you are born a quadriplegic, for instance. If you are ugly, take Vitamin S and get huge and shredded and you will meet and get women, trust me, I know dudes who are ugly with chimp-faces and broke who get tons and I mean tons of girls.
    If you are fat, then diet and be disciplined. Poor? Work hard, save, do not spend on trash like booze and cigarettes, for instance. Take classes at night and seek out scholarships and grants to attend college at night a couple times a week.

    Much of your life is under your own control. Celibacy is a choice. If it is imposed on you, then it is your choice, save for extremely rare cases of someone born without any limbs, for instance. But that is not case for most young men.

    Now to answer your three choices for young men:

    1) Celibacy in priesthood is something that will have to end in the Catholic Church, if they want to recruit a new generation of priests. Now-former Priest Jonathan Morris left the Church because he wanted to marry and have kids. Clerical Celibacy was a Papal decree in the middle ages when the Church was tired of supporting the widows of deceased priests and changed Church rules for that purpose alone. It is NOT Biblical. Rabbi and early church leaders were almost all married, except for the Apostle Paul, who was traveling too much to spread The Gospel than to marry. Paul’s focus was very intense, and as Paul explained, some people should not marry at all.

    I get that. MGTOW guys are some of the people who should not marry/do not want to marry at all. So are radical feminists. But then, at the same time,

    3) A “dirty girl” as in a non-virgin or as a “reformed” sloot? I would strongly advise against trying to be a Captain Save-A-H0e to marry or LTR with, because that is a sure way to self-destruction. Understanding the True Nature of Women is critical to happiness and success in life, no matter what.

    There is no doubt that we live in a troubled time, even more troubled than in the Early Church period during Roman Empire. When it comes to relationships and marriage, today is much more corrupt and unstable than back then. Back then, family life was the mainstay of life and things like virgin marriages and societal enforcement of marriage was widespread, even among the pagans. Today, divorce, adultery, and wh0ring are encouraged by media and even some churches.

    Continued….

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