The ugly feminist view of pregnancy: “Gestational work”

As I wrote in Feminists are ugly:

The ugliness of the feminist mind-frame towards cooking, cleaning, and caring for others is so profound that it is difficult to process. These women are so obsessed with not showing Christian love that they make it a priority not to serve their own families. Cooking, cleaning, and caring for their own husbands and children is a concept which is repulsive to them. Acts of service to others are in their twisted minds traps to be avoided, and many go so far as to order their entire lives around avoiding showing love to others, especially their families. These women are so gripped by miserliness they have made it a priority not to show love to their own children. When they find themselves unable to avoid an act of service and love to their families altogether, they first steel their hearts with resentment, turning their hearts to stone to avoid the feelings of selfless love they live in constant terror of developing.

Exhibit A:

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83 Responses to The ugly feminist view of pregnancy: “Gestational work”

  1. Bart says:

    In feminism, female disadvantages are interpreted in the worst possible way, through a lens of oppression and victimhood. But so are female advantages, so that everything is terrible all the time. In feminism, unhappiness is a tool to be wielded. They wind themselves up, then blame you for twisting the handle.

    I can’t bear to spend time in this woman’s head, but I am curious how she’d justify a widespread culture of surrogacy, given that surrogates are primarily driven by economic benefit. Isn’t this just advantaging wealthy women through exploitation of poor women? Poor developing-world women are at the top of the victimhood pyramid — how to reconcile with the Woke Olympics?

  2. Anon says:

    It is rather surprising to see what globalization has equalized, and what it has not equalized. Almost no one could have predicted where the chips fell (not that the final chapter is written).

    Globalization has equalized the wages of certain tasks that do not require physical proximity, and has equalized access to products, cuisines, etc.

    But, rather surprisingly, Globalization has NOT (yet) equalized the male-female power balance worldwide. The few Western Protestant countries have such a small combined population, and when you consider how much resources per capita are required just to maintain these unnatural ‘feminist’ narratives (what Dalrock calls running the pump on full), it is amazing that this has not equalized, and a term like ‘gestational work’ is even uttered.

    Then again, I have pointed out how it is far more attractive for women to immigrate to the West than for men, yet women are not doing this, even though this would equalize the preposterous imbalance in male-female power balance between the US/UK/Canada/Aus vs. the other 90%+ of the world’s population (85% is not in the West at all).

    In the US, about $30,000/year is forcibly transferred from the average man to the average woman by government alone (individual results vary greatly). If an attractive young woman in South America, Southeast Asia, or Eastern Europe can earn just $10,000/yr in her country, or at best marry a man who earns $25,000./yr, simply coming to the US improves every possible prospect of her life, whether marriage or career, immensely. Yet, we don’t see this free market flow.

  3. Jake says:

    Nothing more exploitive than surrogacy. I will go a step farther and say it is an abomination against God and nature

    Recognizing it as exploitive is a product of a sane mind however.

  4. Joseph says:

    Amazingly terrifying how dispassionately clinical the secular socialists discuss killing. Truly an illustration of the banality of evil. May that clip be preserved and shown in future abortion holocaust museums not only for people to similarly marvel at what distressingly low moral evil sounds and looks like, but also so we can track where such people are buried and urinate on their graves.

  5. Anonymous Reader says:

    LOL!
    Telling each other ghost stories. “Handmaid’s tale” as a series while in reality men wind up in debtor’s prison. “Terrifying attack on abortion” when it’s legal right up to the labor stage in state after state, and Plan B is sitting on the shelves in every chain drugstore in the same aisle as condoms, lube and pregnancy tests. Feminists have what they want. They just have to be scaring each other in order to get the emotional roller coaster women need….

    That said, “Gestational work” is a nice pseudo-Marxist term, to be sure. Should pair well with “undifferentiated blob of cells” nicely.

  6. Bart says:

    Sophie Lewis: “Looking at the biology of hemochorial placentation helps me think about the violence that, innocently, a foetus metes out vis-a-vis a gestator. That violence is an unacceptable violence for someone who doesn’t want to do gestational work.”

    Also: “Abortion is a form of necessary violence.”

    Doesn’t that apply so well to leftism more generally? “*Your* survival is unacceptable violence. *Our* violence is necessary violence.” I should be able to do whatever I want to do. And you should have to do whatever I want you to do.

    There it is. Terrifying.

  7. Anonymous Reader says:

    I am curious how she’d justify a widespread culture of surrogacy, given that surrogates are primarily driven by economic benefit.

    Cognitive dissonance does not bother feminists. “It’s different when we do it” is the go-to first response.

  8. Anonymous Reader says:

    Anon
    Then again, I have pointed out how it is far more attractive for women to immigrate to the West than for men, yet women are not doing this

    It’s almost as if women are different from men in more than just boobs and babies…how could that be?

  9. TheWanderer says:

    Wow, fascinating logic. So if/when a husband feels the need to “exit that workplace”, will killing be justified when he feels the need to avoid provisional work? Would we “defend” such killings? Does the same standard apply, or only women who want to murder? What other context is killing justified, and to be defended?

  10. bigjohn33 says:

    Huh. Interesting take. You generally don’t see people arguing that abortion is in fact homicide and that it is also acceptable. Usually they try to obfuscate the former.

    I had to laugh at the part about “continually making and unmaking each other”. “Unmaking” a person is my new favorite euphemism for murder.

    There was an “unmaking” in the local news the other day. A local man “unmade” another man with a knife. Lol. Clown world, man. At least it’s not boring.

  11. locustsplease says:

    Well its hard to complain about hearing the truth from them as opposed to decades of lies deflection and smears. They are murders and especially hate their own children. Only grown women deserve the right to live in their eyes. They will kill or enslave anyone they can to create their prosperity.

  12. Anon says:

    It’s almost as if women are different from men in more than just boobs and babies…how could that be?

    Both pursue economic opportunities. There have been examples where women have emigrated out of countries to a greater extent than men.

    You haven’t made a point, per se.

  13. Sounds like my mother. She would cook once a year on thanksgiving and complain about not being thanked enough. Every other day she would lay in bed and watch tv all day. This kind of shit has been around for several decades.

  14. Anon says:

    Jake,

    Nothing more exploitive than surrogacy. I will go a step farther and say it is an abomination against God and nature

    No. If all parties have consented, it is a free market transaction.

    You would probably say that egg donation is also an abomination.

    How about hiring a baby-sitter? Is that an exploitative abomination as well?

  15. TheWanderer says:

    @ Bart
    “Doesn’t that apply so well to leftism more generally? “*Your* survival is unacceptable violence. *Our* violence is necessary violence.” I should be able to do whatever I want to do. And you should have to do whatever I want you to do.”

    Yes it does, this is exactly what we see in the “global warming” BS, we see it in “toxic masculinity” as well as ALL forms of identity politics. – Simply pointing this out is now considered a form of “violence” – to be met with state sanctioned violence that is being defended by those on the left.

  16. Caspar Reyes says:

    Gestator (Shouldn’t that be gestatrix?). In any case, by rejecting her primary distinct function she reduces herself to a mere shadow of a man, who has no effect at all on the world except to the degree that the patriarchal system allows it. I have more respect for a ho.

  17. Anonymous Reader says:

    Anon
    Both pursue economic opportunities.

    Yes. However, there are far more female prostitutes / escorts than male. Can you explain that?

    There have been examples where women have emigrated out of countries to a greater extent than men.

    What examples? What countries? What time periods? Details, please, no handwaving.

  18. No. If all parties have consented, it is a free market transaction.

    All parties consenting has no influence on whether or not a thing is an abomination under the divine and natural laws.

  19. Anon says:

    Anon Reader,

    You are actually claiming that women don’t immigrate to places with better economic opportunities to nearly the same extent as men, and hence the extremely different power balance between men and women as exists in a few Western countries (coincidentally those that have been democracies the longest), comprising well under 10% of the World’s population, and only sustained by massive ‘running of the water pump’, will never correct.

    Think about what you are claiming here, and whether you actually want to assert this with a straight face.

  20. Heidi says:

    When someone hands you a baby, you don’t get to put him in a dumpster because you don’t want to hold him. And when you have put out your hands and asked for the baby (as most women who have abortions have done), you don’t get to say “Augh, what’s this thing you’ve foisted on me?”

    Children are not simply things that happen to women. They are people.

  21. Hazelshade says:

    This shows the ugly feminist view of “work” broadly defined, as well.

  22. Bart says:

    @TheWanderer

    True enough.

    I see their motives more clearly than I did once upon a time, but I also think they’re far more comfortable articulating exactly what their aims are rather than pushing for incremental change using cloaked rhetoric.

    As @bigjohn33 said at 12:06, you don’t often see them admit that abortion is killing. It seems like a big gambit. They’re going for all the marbles. If they can get everyone to buy into killing being okay for pregnant women, then they don’t have to dither around with trimesters or exceptions or intrusive oversight of Planned Parenthood, et al. They can just do whatever they want once and for all and be done with it.

    It reminds me of the unhappily married housewife who tires of manipulating her husband for more money, less sex, more housework, and less obligation and just dares him to stop her as she files for divorce, kicks him out of the house, takes the kids, alimony, and child support, and attempts to turn their entire social circle against him. If it works, it works, but once you go there, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle.

  23. Warthog says:

    Witches should be burned at the stake. Feminists are witches.

  24. Pingback: The ugly feminist view of pregnancy: “Gestational work” | Reaction Times

  25. JB Harshaw says:

    >>Cooking, cleaning, and caring for their own husbands and children is a concept which is repulsive to them.<<

    Indeed, they even see doing so FOR THEMSELVES as something "abhorrent"; and to be avoided at all costs…

    Said "costs" (in addition to basic "necessities" of life: food, shelter, heat/cooling, light, power and 'communication' utilities; not to mention various additional luxuries and entertainments: clothing, shoes {lots of shoes} makeup and so on) of course are & "of right ought and should be" — according to them — provided/borne by "society" in the form of FREE money handed TO THEM…

    Why? Well because they exist — and of course if/when THAT isn't sufficient, they will rvert to "because they possess the 'magic Vagina/Womb' from which life will (or CAN) ostensibly spring" — NEVERMIND that (as you subsequently note) they entirely eschew doing ANY such "gestational work" and even demand the right to be able to (for THEIR "convenience" & at their arbitrary whim) destroy any such life which they might (oopsie!) have "accidentally" had conceived within said vagina/womb (while they were "enjoying themselves" in licentious fashion, something ELSE they demand to be able to "freely" do regardless of consequences {including disease, for which of course they also demand FREE "healthcare" to eliminate any/all natural negative consequences}).

    And then of course… if & when their womb has essentially "expired"; and they suddenly DESIRE to engage in the "experience of being a mother"; then they DEMAND that society (directly or indirectly) also provide them with (ideally FREE) egg freezing, sperm donors, IVF treatments and so on; as well of course as "assistance" to meet essentially ALL the needs of the subsequent children (and especially so if/when — as is much more likely when IVF is used and the mother is past her prime fertility — the resulting offspring suffer from various developmental "defects").

  26. John James R says:

    IRT, women immigrating versus men; I used to live in Brazil and it was very difficult for young, single women to get even tourist visas at that time without proving emphatically that they had a life (in Brazil) that they would not want to leave (job, home, savings etc.) Basically it was for the upper class. I don’t know all the situations worldwide for the last 40 years, but logic says that single, 18-35 year old women from around the world would be very likely to disappear in America and not return home. Thus, they are not given the opportunities to immigrate that males and families are given. That same cohort (young women) is also unlikely to brave an illegal border crossing under the watch of a criminal coyote who has total power over them. So you’re not getting too many wetback Russian lingerie model types. If they had an easy route to immigration, I’m sure they would be flooding the gates.

  27. Novaseeker says:

    Bart —

    Indeed it is going for all the marbles. They’re doing that because they believe that they are on the cusp of a permanent shift due to demographic changes that permanently flip the lean of the nation, and therefore make compromises and nuance no longer needed.

    Trump puts a dent in that thesis of theirs, but their view of him is that he represents the last gasp of old, white, male America, and that in 10 years time it will be obvious to everyone.

    So the gloves are off.

  28. John James R says:

    I clean my home and do laundry on Saturday mornings. I regard it as the easiest, most relaxing, mindless time of the week for me. Not only that but it doubles my own satisfaction in simply being home. A clean home is very nice and all it takes is a few hours of satisfying ritual work. That women have stamped their feet and misrepresented these pleasant tasks into degrading drudgery tells you just about all you need to know about them.

  29. BillyS says:

    Nothing more exploitive than surrogacy. I will go a step farther and say it is an abomination against God and nature

    I don’t like those who claim that is the route they will proceed, but it is far from exploitative. Quit trying to force people to fit your view of what is right.

  30. aussiemania says:

    Of course women love making everything a federal issue so they can parade in public and maximise the drama focused on themselves and their bodies. Never mind the contradictions. For example we are told that women’s natural medicine abilities are superior to mens, and before the 20th century abortion was practised by some midwives and ‘wise women’. But men figured out how to do that and all sorts of surgery better, so now all women have a ‘right’ to those men’s services too. Because men are to blame for women’s problems and women demand men fix everything – Dalrock’s law.

    Imagine if men paraded in the streets demanding better bathrooms or something. ‘Hey you’re men, just fix the problem, or suck it in’. Throughout history men just got on with it and found ways to make their and women’s lives better. The total one-sidedness of this is so obvious, yet society is so blinded by the chivalry imperative. If women really were the equal of men all this would be totally private and we’d know nothing about it, they’d fix their own problems just like men do. Legal equality is how liberalism has failed in the modern connected world, it don’t add up, women just use it to get attention as their instincts program them to do.

  31. TheTraveler says:

    Evil, brutality, and cupidity on parade.

    Lucifer rejoices in her.

  32. aussiemania says:

    I mean, does no one notice that the ‘backyard abortions’ women fear were mostly performed by other women? The same traditional ‘women’s knowledge’ which women simultaneously praise? So which (Witch) is it ladies? Good or bad? Womanspeak – the ability to say two contradictory things and have everyone nod sympathetically.

    ‘Women’s traditional knowledge is superior’, ‘Yes so true!’

    Same woman-

    ‘Women died in (traditional) backyard abortions (performed by midwives)!’
    ‘Yes! Men must fix it now!’

  33. Lee says:

    This lady is acting logically and predictably from the perspective of autonomy.

  34. TheTraveler says:

    In the 1980s, afeminist wasquoted in Time magazine. She claimed that marriage is bondage, child-rearing is slavery–and ALL sex is not only rape, including within marriage, it is NEVER enjoyable for a woman. Any woman who disclaims any of this garbage, particularly if she claims she enjoys sex, was decreed “brainwashed” by “oppressive patriarchal” ideas.

    For years, leftists would claim she was “misquoted” or “taken out of context,” their two favorite excuses.

    This witch blows it all the rationalizations out of the water. Whatever happened to, “violence is never the answer?”

    This madness cannot continue. The lies and contradictions must collapse under their own weight soon.

  35. Anonymous Reader says:

    Anon
    You are actually claiming that women don’t immigrate to places with better economic opportunities to nearly the same extent as men,

    LOL
    No, that’s your claim, and you cannot understand why this situation exists either. Maybe your Glasses are smudged?

    The answer is “risk tolerance”, and women have less of it on average than men do. Never in history did a group of women outfit a seagoing vessel and set off to explore, trade or raid. Sure, upper body strength is a big factor, but really Evo-psych explains why.

    Women don’t have to take risks. They have men to do that for them…

    Now, answer the question asked above. Tell us all when and where more women emigrated from a country than men. Raids by slavers kidnapping them doesn’t count…

    PS: Don’t ask me to do your research for you.

  36. Lee says:

    The traveller.

    I assure you that this madness will continue. There are just too many walls to break down. Dismantle one another pops up and another and another.
    These walls were constructed slowly over a long period of time and the only way to tear them down will be societal collapse.

  37. Anonymous Reader says:

    Heidi
    When someone hands you a baby, you don’t get to put him in a dumpster because you don’t want to hold him.

    You might be projecting.

    The great Baroque composer Vivaldi worked for years conducting and composing for an an all-girl musical ensemble in Venice at the Ospedale della Pietà.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Vivaldi

    The past is a different country…

  38. Michael Susce says:

    Necessary violence is always justified.
    Sincerely,
    Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot
    P.S. It worked fabulously for us!!

  39. Lee says:

    @BillyS ‘I don’t like those who claim that is the route they will proceed, but it is far from exploitative. Quit trying to force people to fit your view of what is right”

    mmmm, you exhibit yet another defining feature of gnosticism which is relative morality.

    @Anon “No. If all parties have consented, it is a free market transaction. You would probably say that egg donation is also an abomination.”

    This is a joke? Right? Third-party reproduction turns children into commodities that can be purchased. Not only does third-party reproduction commodify children, but it also objectifies the bodies of women. .

  40. 370H55V says:

    It all becomes clear when one remembers the two cardinal rules of feminism:

    1) The truth is whatever I believe it to be, and can change from moment to moment.

    2) Life must be all bliss, all the time, and government must step in to make it so.

  41. Anon says:

    Anon Reader,

    The answer is “risk tolerance”, and women have less of it on average than men do.

    Yes, and this fully undermines your own claim.

    You fail to see the difference between gross risk and net risk, and hence your pretense is way, way off. You assume that the status quo is always less risky than the new life in a new land.

    Maybe coming to the US is LESS risky than staying in a poorer, high crime country. Gee, being a waitress or retail store staffer in Russia (where violent crime and sexual assault actually do happen), earning $10K a year seems more risky than coming to America and getting $30K/year just for being a woman on top of $50K/yr from her actual job. /sarc

    By your logic, one could say that no women get married since there are risks to marriage. Nevermind that there might be higher risks to the woman in not getting married.

    Furthermore, long-distance domestic migration is just as common for women as men (i.e. moving to the other coast, or going to college over 1000 miles away). So to claim that this suddenly has a huge, huge drop off in International movements (i.e. immigration) is a stretch and completely unsupported.

    As everyone here knows that a massive welfare state that provides each adult woman with, on average, a level of resources that exceeds the cost of basic necessities did not exist anywhere before the modern age, trying to tie this to some pre-20th century comparison is entirely without merit.

  42. TheTraveler says:

    @Lee

    Sooner or later, God will have to make His presence felt; He has been largely absentfor around a century. The Good Guys never win, and when seem to, the Bad Guys find a judge/dodge/fudge that not only overturns the win, but gives the Bad Guys an even bigger, more lasting victory.

    Some Catholics believe (or at least give credence to) reports that Pope Leo XIII overheard Satan asking for 75 years to wreck the Church–and God reportedly gave him 100 years. I’m inclined to believe it, because most, if not all, commenters here feel their particular flavor of institutional Christianity has spun totally out of the control of those who want righteousness.

    It is unprecedented in human history: the destruction of the Faith with no real up-side; the seemingly unending string of defeats for moral initiatives; the boundless energy, resources, and influence of evil, from robber barons to shrill blue-haired street-corner shouters; the brutal silencing of righteous speakers, and not least, the charlatans dominating all major denominations. For all their persecution and early problems with heresy, early Christians saw major gains by their Faith, which knew what it believed and was worth dying for. Today, real Christianity contracts as SJW-heresy pollutes it like sewage spreading slowly through a fertile field.

    If He doesn’t act soon, salvation will be virtually impossible. Except for isolated pockets of real Christians, there will be only SJW heresy. And mostly, nobody will join a religion beholden to an Omnipotent Deity who promises salvation, yet whose followers shrink rapidly while they lose, lose, lose every important battle.

    And no, I don’t believe we are in the End Times. There is not just one Church, run by a charismatic, Satanic super-charlatan. People talk widely about End Times, which, from my reading of Revelation, will not be the case when it’s real, possibly because the super-Charlatan’s movement will have suppressed the Book of Revelation as part of their grand heresy.

  43. info says:

    @Joseph
    Yep. That why it was so easy to murder on the industrial scale in soviet union. And why they easily threaten dissident family and friends for standing up to them.

    People can more easily be martyrs for christ themselves than to have their families and friends be martyred because they stood for Christ.

  44. Lee says:

    @TheTraveler

    Nice to meet you. I read a prophesy from a pope before the sexual revolution that was simply astonishing. I also read prophesies from the Orthodox Church before the communist revolution how they were going to experience a shit storm but would end up defending Christianity during its darkest moments after going through their time of trouble.

    I assure you this has president in human history.The bible records the rise and fall of Israel and the surrounding kingdoms over thousands of years.

  45. Anon says:

    John James R,

    I used to live in Brazil and it was very difficult for young, single women to get even tourist visas at that time without proving emphatically that they had a life (in Brazil) that they would not want to leave (job, home, savings etc.)

    OK, this is a vastly, vastly better explanation than others provided here.

    That said, it seems this only restricts working-class types. Among those immigrants who can get a student visa, which then leads to skilled immigration, it is just as easy for a woman (easier, since they benefit from affirmative action pressures to hire women, even if those women are immigrants). Hence, a lot of Filipino nurses, Chinese female engineers, etc. do manage to come to America.

    https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#Permanent

    “In 2017, approximately 52 percent of immigrants were female. The share has fluctuated slightly over the past four decades; women accounted for 53 percent of immigrants in 1980, 51 percent in 1990, 50 percent in 2000, and 51 percent in 2010.”

  46. JB Harshaw says:

    @John James R

    >>I clean my home and do laundry on Saturday mornings. I regard it as the easiest, most relaxing, mindless time of the week for me. Not only that but it doubles my own satisfaction in simply being home. A clean home is very nice and all it takes is a few hours of satisfying ritual work. That women have stamped their feet and misrepresented these pleasant tasks into degrading drudgery tells you just about all you need to know about them.<<

    Amen. And the same with "cooking"… modern "feminist" women (with modern kitchens filled with a VAST array of appliances, refrigerators & freezers, electric & gas cookstoves, microwaves; fresh clear hot & cold water on tap, canned & packaged meal mixes, every convenience imaginable, not to mention thermostatically controlled heated/cooled homes) do nothing BUT complain that "cooking" is sheer "drudgery" and oh soooo difficult.

    Their grandmothers — who cooked vast meals for large families & often groups of several hired hands; in sweltering kitchens, on (if they were lucky) wood or coal fueled CAST IRON stoves (with NO temperature settings), and invariably all from "scratch" with only the most basic ingredients (including hand pumped & carried water, hand churned butter, even hand-grinding grains into flour) — would be insanely ashamed at their pitiful (lying) descendant grand-daughters, and probably LAUGH THEIR ASSES off at the ridiculousness of any of that complaining, much less the incessant WHINGING.

    And of course ever increasing numbers of MGTOW men (never married AND divorced "bachelors"; as well as some still-married men as well) likewise — we KNOW that they're full of it — and what's more, because we actually DO all the things women whinge about, well… in addition to LYING about the level of difficulty/work, we KNOW that all these women are REALLY doing is revealing is their own utter and complete INCOMPETENCE (at what is really child-like skill-level tasks); as well as overall LAZINESS.

    They're NOT in fact proving themselves to be the "equal" of men (much less our superiors)… what these "feisty-feministy" women are actually doing is RE-proving that — in terms of competence, capabilities and usefulness to men & society — they are at (or below) the level of teenagers or even high single digit aged children. Other than the "vagina/womb" they have ZERO value — and THEY did that to themselves — they reduced themselves to the level of a "sexbot" and/or "baby incubator" (which even the latter as others have noted CAN be purchased "on the market" via "surrogates").

  47. Asaph says:

    But it’s a fully voluntary agreement. What’s next, are you going to say worker’s are exploited by employers because they [the workers] don’t own the means of production? Or something along those lines

  48. Asaph says:

    I will have to start using that phrase

  49. Asaph says:

    East Germany

  50. Asaph says:

    Explain how and why its wrong

  51. Asaph says:

    You haven’t proven why commodification and objectification are morally wrong. People have been doing that for as far as human history goes.
    Also, present a better alternative.

  52. Hugh Mann says:

    Like Sophie Lewis, late 60s feminist Shulamith Firestone wanted to abolish childbirth and the family. She ended up dying, poor, alone and mentally ill, in a junk-filled apartment – it was days before she was found.

    But that was then. Even a famous feminist like Kate Millett couldn’t hold down tenure and ended up selling Christmas trees for a living. But now all these lunatics are paid for by (mostly) men’s taxes or (mostly) women’s student loans. Let’s hope it’s the latter.

  53. Hugh Mann says:

    anonreader – Women don’t have to take risks. They have men to do that for them…

    http://www.denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm

    “Consider this question: What percent of our ancestors were women?

    It’s not a trick question, and it’s not 50%. True, about half the people who ever lived were women, but that’s not the question. We’re asking about all the people who ever lived who have a descendant living today. Or, put another way, yes, every baby has both a mother and a father, but some of those parents had multiple children.

    Recent research using DNA analysis answered this question about two years ago. Today’s human population is descended from twice as many women as men.

    I think this difference is the single most underappreciated fact about gender. To get that kind of difference, you had to have something like, throughout the entire history of the human race, maybe 80% of women but only 40% of men reproduced.

    Right now our field is having a lively debate about how much behavior can be explained by evolutionary theory. But if evolution explains anything at all, it explains things related to reproduction, because reproduction is at the heart of natural selection. Basically, the traits that were most effective for reproduction would be at the center of evolutionary psychology. It would be shocking if these vastly different reproductive odds for men and women failed to produce some personality differences.

    For women throughout history (and prehistory), the odds of reproducing have been pretty good. Later in this talk we will ponder things like, why was it so rare for a hundred women to get together and build a ship and sail off to explore unknown regions, whereas men have fairly regularly done such things? But taking chances like that would be stupid, from the perspective of a biological organism seeking to reproduce. They might drown or be killed by savages or catch a disease. For women, the optimal thing to do is go along with the crowd, be nice, play it safe. The odds are good that men will come along and offer sex and you’ll be able to have babies. All that matters is choosing the best offer. We’re descended from women who played it safe.

    For men, the outlook was radically different. If you go along with the crowd and play it safe, the odds are you won’t have children. Most men who ever lived did not have descendants who are alive today. Their lines were dead ends. Hence it was necessary to take chances, try new things, be creative, explore other possibilities. Sailing off into the unknown may be risky, and you might drown or be killed or whatever, but then again if you stay home you won’t reproduce anyway. We’re most descended from the type of men who made the risky voyage and managed to come back rich. In that case he would finally get a good chance to pass on his genes. We’re descended from men who took chances (and were lucky).”

  54. John James R. says:

    Anon,

    Those are work-related visas through coordinated programs. I’m pretty sure of that. It’s not a 20 year old Filipina who just ups and comes to America and then finds a job as a nurse later. I am certainly no expert, but I don’t think you’ll find too many instances of a young woman overseas who simply applies for a visa, tourist or residency, and then saves up the 600$ for a one way ticket into America where she just touches down and starts to make her way. You can be sure that if it were that kind of free-for-all that we would be flooded by young women from all over the world. Too bad it doesn’t happen. It would change everything about our culture’s dynamics in about a year. 30 million long-haired, non-obese foreign women from the ages of 18-35 would throw a hilarious monkey wrench into the leftist/feminist borg machinery. BTW if you’re a closed borders type, nothing would get the leftist/feminist borg to pull a 180 and also urge closed borders as efficiently as boatloads of long-haired young beauties. The walls would go up all around. Even the beaches of California would have walls and AOC, Warren and the rest of the harridans would be leading the way on that. It’s all fine when it’s a bunch of low iq males flooding in, allowing them to get drunk on virtue signaling. The second that immigration threatens their status as women, the virtue signal vanishes so easily, as it always does once the signaler actually has some legitimate stake.

  55. Anonymous Reader says:

    Me
    The answer is “risk tolerance”, and women have less of it on average than men do.

    Anon
    Yes, and this fully undermines your own claim.

    What claim would that be?

    You fail to see the difference between gross risk and net risk, and hence your pretense is way, way off.

    What pretense is that? Is it this:

    Then again, I have pointed out how it is far more attractive for women to immigrate to the West than for men, yet women are not doing this

    Whose claim is that?

    You assume that the status quo is always less risky than the new life in a new land.

    I assume nothing.

    Maybe coming to the US is LESS risky than staying in a poorer, high crime country. Gee, being a waitress or retail store staffer in Russia (where violent crime and sexual assault actually do happen), earning $10K a year seems more risky than coming to America and getting $30K/year just for being a woman on top of $50K/yr from her actual job. /sarc

    Maybe. But that doesn’t answer your question, now does it?

    By your logic, one could say that no women get married since there are risks to marriage. Nevermind that there might be higher risks to the woman in not getting married.

    I’m just pointing out the flaw in your claim.

    Furthermore, long-distance domestic migration is just as common for women as men (i.e. moving to the other coast, or going to college over 1000 miles away).

    Possibly. I don’t have the evidence to hand. Do you? You still have not supported the previous claim.

    So to claim that this suddenly has a huge, huge drop off in International movements (i.e. immigration) is a stretch and completely unsupported.

    That would be an odd claim. Good thing no one has made it.

    As everyone here knows that a massive welfare state that provides each adult woman with, on average, a level of resources that exceeds the cost of basic necessities did not exist anywhere before the modern age, trying to tie this to some pre-20th century comparison is entirely without merit.

    Women have a lot of motivations such as Hypergamy that considerably predate the 20th century. Are you seriously suggesting that Hypergamy does not exist?

    Plus, how does this connect to your statement:?

    Anon:

    Then again, I have pointed out how it is far more attractive for women to immigrate to the West than for men, yet women are not doing this

    Why is this a mystery to you? Do you not understand that women’s brains are physically different from men’s, and therefore they are not just “men with boobs”? Perhaps you should just claim victory and change the subject since you cannot use elementary logic?

    tl;dr
    Women’s risk tolerance is not the same as men’s. Someone who claims to believe in evolution should have zero problem with this concept. Even Libertarians should eventually be able to understand it…eventually.

  56. Anonymous Reader says:

    @Bart @Novaseeker

    There’s a certain degree of fear involved in recent state legislation regarding abortion. To the Left, Kavanaugh is allegedly the USSC justice who may well overturn Roe v. Wade, leading to instant “Handmaid’s Tale” conversion.

    The reality is that Roe probably won’t be overturned or even trimmed back, but in the event that happens it merely moves regulation of abortion from the US Federal government back to the states. Those states with large liberal majorities are therefore moving to push the limits as far as possible; New York, California, possibly Virginia all have had legislation in the last year intended to fully legalize abortion right up to the beginning of labor, or even post birth. In response Georgia and Alabama have responded with a push to outlaw abortion either entirely, or after a few months (“Heartbeat” laws).

    One irony: anyone who actually reads the 1973 Roe decision as a standlone document would soon find that abortion in the US is legal right up to birth. True, there is a division along the lines of 3-month intervals or “trimesters” but abortion is Federally legal in last 3 months “to protect the health of the mother”. “Health” includes mental health, so pre-partum depression is a legal justification for inducing premature birth and death of the “blob of cells”. So there isn’t really anything radical about most of the laws either proposed or enacted – because Roe was quite radical.

    This is just another part of the ongoing polarization of the US. White Democrats are becoming more leftist, white Republicans less so, the middle is fading.

  57. Anonymous Reader says:

    Hugh Mann
    Like Sophie Lewis, late 60s feminist Shulamith Firestone wanted to abolish childbirth and the family. She ended up dying, poor, alone and mentally ill

    Abortion on demand, for any or no reason, at any time during pregnancy has been on the radical feminist wish-list since the 1960’s. Partly it is a “young woman” idea. I have personally seen women in my family change from “abortion if I want one no matter what” to “gee, this isn’t such a good idea” to “it’s murder” due to life changes from the age of 20 to 25 to 30 and onward.

    For some women, pregnancy and child birth changes their perspective on the “blob of cells”.

    Firestone was mentally ill, pretty clearly bipolar / schizophrenic. A crazy cat lady. That her rant entitled “Dialectic of Sex” was published tells a lot about the funding of 2nd stage feminism: there was a lot of money available, from government agencies such as the CIA to the various foundations starting with the Ford foundation. It’s pretty easy to create a “grassroots” movement when you are being bankrolled by governments and “the one percent”.

  58. TheTraveler says:

    @Lee

    Nice to meet you. Thanks for responding.

    You make a good point about the precedent of the trials of Israel. To me, it seems as though those bad times came about because God’s chosen people got too big for their britches. My perception is that our current situation is far different.

    As far as I know, God has never permitted Himself to be so widely profaned, the Devil so openly worshiped, for such a long period, as today. Those who attempt to live righteously aren’t perfect–but unlike the Israelites of old, we’re not telling God to take a hike.

    Seems to me (reading this blog) lots of decent people are struggling to restore righteousness. In our imperfections, we disagree, make mistakes, even do silly things. It’s complicated by God having allowed charlatans to take over Christianity, making the good fight almost impossible to win.

    I think we agree concerning the astonishing prophesies you’ve read. There is a certain consistency to all of these prophesies, which makes me think there has to be something to it.

  59. Anon says:

    John James R,

    Those are work-related visas through coordinated programs. I’m pretty sure of that.

    Of course. These are always people who got a bachelor’s degree overseas, and then come to the US for a Master’s Degree. For this group, a student visa, and eventual work visa, are almost a certainty. I don’t know of anyone in this category who was denied either of the two visas at any point of their process. If anything, America makes it too hard for highly-skilled immigrants, in favor of unskilled/illegals (men, for the reasons you mentioned).

    But even this category might tip in favor of women soon, given the overwhelmingly higher upside for women vs. for men, in coming to America. Tons and tons of young Chinese women are now here as engineers, finance people, etc.

    The second that immigration threatens their status as women, the virtue signal vanishes so easily,

    Yes, which reveals the failure of men as a gender. Women could not even vote from 1776-1920. Men could have had a woman-only immigration policy then. Even in 1965, women were not in enough positions of power to stop it, but men just don’t think that way, whereas women do, as you mentioned.

  60. Anon says:

    Anonymous Reader,

    Your lengthy screed is pretty absurd, and is pretty much just you talking to your self.

    You presented one possible reason why immigration is not female-heavy, and John James R presented a vastly better one, that is backed by real evidence. Your rationale of ‘risk aversion’ was extremely flawed from the beginning, since you utterly failed to account for the fact that staying put in a poor, high-crime country could be more risky than going to America, which means a risk-averse woman should be more inclined to emigrate out.

    Case closed.

    To highlight the magnitude of how poor of a job you have done in making any coherent argument, lets take this quote from your most recent comment :

    Women have a lot of motivations such as Hypergamy that considerably predate the 20th century. Are you seriously suggesting that Hypergamy does not exist?

    er…Hypergamy (which you brought up, not I) is in fact a reason for women to come to America, not stay put. A pretty Russian or Brazilian girl could marry a millionaire in the US, vs. marry a local man who earns $20K/yr in their home country.

    When you can’t see that your tangents undermine your own claim (which you then back away from), you are not going to get anywhere.

  61. Anonymous Reader says:

    @Hugh Mann

    Baumeister’s essay should be required reading for anyone who wants to see clearly, because it shows certain aspects of women’s unconscious behavior in a different light. Of course feminists and others who have a blind faith in blank slate “nurture is all, there are no inherited behavior patterns” won’t understand or will fly into a rage. However, since feminism has nearly zero predictive capability, it’s not really a model of reality.

    Baumeister’s work is clear: women can and have lived in something like harems. Maybe they don’t like it, maybe some like it and others don’t, but in ancient times women’s feelings didn’t matter much. However, it’s a coarse-grained work that sweeps up a lot of people into one pile. Gene science is providing us with much finer grained results.

    Here is a popular science article from last year with links to more rigorous articles. Thanks to genetic sequencing on both the DNA and maternal DNA (mtDNA) from human remains, we can be rather sure that all the men in what is now Spain were killed or enslaved about 4,000 years ago…but many, perhaps most, of the native women survived to bear children. They were impregnated by the conquering men, which implies polygamy at the very least.

    “Kill the men, castrate the boys, take the women” is not a happy story, but it is true. It has happened over and over again for a very long time, may still be happening in some corners of the world today. Given that at least some human behaviors are inherited via genetics, this has obvious implications for some differences between men and women.

    https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/spanish-men-were-completely-wiped-out-by-the-arrival-of-a-new-tribe-4000-years-ago/

    Women in that place and time did not have to go in search of “adventure”, because “adventure” came over the mountains and found them. Cautious women who became “war brides” passed their genes on, and therefore their inherent behavior patterns. Other women didn’t pass their genes on. That’s fundamental to evo-psych, anyone who claims to believe in evolution but who insists that women are just men with boobs has a serious case of cognitive dissonance.

    Blank slate true believers such as feminists and complementarians are going to have their faith tested over and over in the years to come. I expect that will lead many to just double down on their trust in “nurture”…should lead to some entertaining verbal “yes, but!” gyrations.

    PS: I have a friend and coworker who is a staunch believer in a literal creation taking 6 days of 24 hours each. He finds such things as the Spanish genetic results above to be very interesting and fully in harmony with his religion. Of course, he also is realistic about the women in his family; he does not regard his wife as a “man with boobs”. Perhaps his agricultural background helps with that.

  62. Anonymous Reader says:

    Anon
    There have been examples where women have emigrated out of countries to a greater extent than men.

    Still waiting for you to support this claim with facts. Country names, dates and numbers. You do understand elementary logic, I’m sure.

    You made the claim. Support it with evidence or withdraw it. That’s what men do.

  63. Anonymous Reader says:

    Anon
    Your lengthy screed is pretty absurd, and is pretty much just you talking to your self.

    LOL!
    No, it’s me pointing out the logical errors in your squid ink. You can’t understand why women don’t act like men…and claim to be Red Pill, snicker.

    Support your claims regarding female emigration with evidence or withdraw them. That’s the logical thing to do.

    Or maybe you are a believer in the blank slate fallacy? That would explain some of your recurring errors in thinking.

  64. Anonymous Reader says:

    Anon
    er…Hypergamy (which you brought up, not I) is in fact a reason for women to come to America, not stay put.

    It could be. Or it could be you don’t understand hypergamy.

    A pretty Russian or Brazilian girl could marry a millionaire in the US, vs. marry a local man who earns $20K/yr in their home country.

    Leaving aside your out-of-date knowledge about Russia,…then why don’t they do that? Why do they wait for a man to make it possible for them to emigrate? it’s not like they would have to walk through the Mexican desert to get to the US, either.

    Come on, explain it or admit there’s something here you do not know / understand.

    PS: Please be sure to provide countries / dates / numbers for those cases where women emigrated in greater numbers than men. I’ll remind you from time to time, but it’s your job to support your argument, don’t expect me to do it for you.

  65. John James R. says:

    “Leaving aside your out-of-date knowledge about Russia,…then why don’t they do that?”

    Because it’s not as easy as you think. This isn’t a matter of just having the nerve to get on an airplane, land, get a hotel, and start making your way. Residency visas are not that easy to get for young, single women and tourist visas are very difficult. The lack of any skill set among the typical 18-30 year old second-world female is another disadvantage as that rules out pre-arranged, overseas hiring options. There is the au pair option and that draws millions. As does nursing/hospital work. If US Immigration allowed 19 year old girls to fly in on tourist visas at will, they would just be asking for them to overstay and disappear illegally. Actual illegal border crossings are at least hot and dangerous which is some deterrent. I can’t easily conjure the image of a Slavic 19 year old emerging from the Rio Grande river on the Texas side soaking wet.

    “Why do they wait for a man to make it possible for them to emigrate?”

    Umm…because they have to?

  66. Jacob says:

    Pettiness and profundity may seem like diametric opposites, but in the case of advertising the fact that one is the very first commenter on a new blog post, the close proximity shows that it can depend entirely on one’s perspective.

    While being first to comment is a non-achievement of epic profundity to the first commenter, it is so petty to everyone else that it could define the term. Yet if it happened to be me, the triumph would be real and the urge to advertise would be hard to resist.

  67. Anon says:

    John James R,

    Because it’s not as easy as you think. This isn’t a matter of just having the nerve to get on an airplane, land, get a hotel, and start making your way. Residency visas are not that easy to get for young, single women and tourist visas are very difficult.

    Yep.

    Umm…because they have to?

    Yep again. We have established that visitor visas and generic work visas are very difficult for age 18-30 women who cannot come in on a skilled immigrant path. For single women who can, in fact, do a Bachelor’s degree from a school of sufficient quality in their home country, their path is to secure admission in a Master’s Degree program (already out of reach of most Americans, let alone the average Brazilian/Russian/Pole/Filipino), get an F-1 student visa, and then transition to a work visa with the employer sponsoring it. A greencard takes several years after that.

    Again, your explanation is obviously the correct one. Others who put forth guesses such as ‘risk aversion’ and ‘hypergamy’ are obviously wrong, since those factors are more likely to increase a woman’s inclination to leave her home country and come to the US.

  68. feeriker says:

    The reality is that Roe probably won’t be overturned or even trimmed back,

    We can rest assured that this is the case. Roe v. Wade ties in with the Globalist depopulation agenda, and we all know that these people control the SCOTUS. There is no way they will ever permit it to be overturned, nor will they allow serious curbs on its legal effects, even at the state level.

  69. Lost Patrol says:

    30th!

  70. Frank K says:

    Residency visas are not that easy to get

    They’re hard as nails to get, and not just in the US.

    Here’s a fun exercise: go to your nearest Mexican Consulate in the US and inquire about an immigrant visa that will allow you to live and work in Mexico. After they laugh you out the door try another consulate from any country.

    When we get to the point where fleeing from the US becomes necessary, a lot of Americans are going to learn that it is next to impossible to get an immigrant visa for just about any country, unless you’re bringing a wheel barrel full of money with you (and we can forget about being admitted as refugees). If you have the right to foreign citizenship through ancestry, I would encourage you to get it. I have a relative who has passports from three different countries.

  71. Frank K says:

    Abortion is a form of necessary violence.

    They make it sound like babies are an invading horde that comes to rape and pillage. Then those same women wave banners welcoming such invading hordes. I wonder if they apologize to these invaders while being raped by them, for not being understanding enough or something.

  72. Dota says:

    Speaking of ugly feminists, watch how they swarm this woman –

  73. purge187 says:

    “They make it sound like babies are an invading horde that comes to rape and pillage. Then those same women wave banners welcoming such invading hordes.”

    The invading hordes are only bad when they’re White.

  74. Anonymous Reader says:

    Does this count as polygamy? Or something else? Feminists do not seem to have a problem…

    https://nypost.com/2019/06/15/the-sperminators-50th-baby-mama-is-a-homeless-18-year-old-from-the-bronx/

  75. BillyS says:

    No. Polygamy would indicate some ongoing connection, not a just a baby made.

  76. Lee says:

    What is ironic is liberals create a false narrative to misrepresent conservatives by the fictionslized handmaidens tale while they embrace full surrogacy now whether a woman can physically have kids or not

  77. Lee says:

    It’s ironic that liberals misrepresent conservatives with the handmaidens tale while Sophie Lewis calls for full surrogacy now

  78. Jesus Rodriguez de la Torre says:

    My oldest daughter has 2 young girls (6, 8). My middle daughter is now 3 months pregnant with a boy. I am a physician that owns a fairly good modern portable US machine. For father’s day the gift I asked and got was my entire family to play “spot the penis” as we gathered around to see the unborn bay move around the womb. Yes, I know there was no way we would see the penis at that age, but that was not the point. The beautiful gift was to see the excitement of my 2 grand daughters in the setting of an extended family celebrating Biblical patriarchy. Compare that to anything feminism has to offer.
    If there has ever been a place for sex ed at such a young age, our home was the place. It was the second most beautiful father’s day gift I have ever receive. The first, of course, was the Father’s gift of His Son to me.

  79. Spike says:

    Repulsive, gross and disgusting. And for that exhausting effort of hardening their cold dark hearts, what does it get them? Loneliness, depression, an inner city apartment and some cats.

    Repulsive, gross and disgusting, but it isn’t as downright evil as that horrible fake redhead who said, “Thank you, it’s been an honour that you chose me” to her in-utero twins, right before she takes an abortifacient to kill them.

  80. BillyS says:

    Jesus,

    Ultrasound images have made those who push abortion have to admit it really is killing a child, not a “mass of tissues” they could claim before.

  81. Spike says:

    What incenses me the most about the pro abortion crowd is their complete heartless selfishness. “Too bad, Junior. Mummy’s got more important things to do in her fabulous life, so you’re just gonna have to die”
    Satan himself incarnate.

  82. TheTraveler says:

    @Spike

    A married woman once got pregnant, but since her family was “big enough,” mom & dad (joint decision–how touching!) decided to terminate the unborn baby. The tremendous supportiveness of the mainstream rag that wrote this up was even more sickening.

    I wonder what the living kids thought?

    As you say, no doubt Lucifer was very pleased.

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