They’re too traditional to submit to their husbands.

Submitting to the Lord sometimes involves drawing clear boundaries and enacting consequences when a husband sins.

–Mary Kassian

As I noted the other day, complementarians have a brilliant tactic to put wives in charge of their husbands.  They support their favorite sin by claiming they are merely objecting to sin.  If you don’t support making Christian wives the rulers of their husbands, you must be an advocate of men sinning with pornography!

For another example of this, see His Dearly Loved Daughter Ministries. Click on the link to see the disturbing pictures of what complementarian marriage looks like (scroll down for more at the bottom). Her thoroughly broken and traumatized husband looks like a kidnap victim trying to signal for help.

The dominating wife in the pictures is Esther Hosea (blog handle).  In her post What should I do about his porn problem? 8“First Steps” for Wives she explains that wives who submit to their husbands instead of dominating them via the wake-up call model are guilty of the sin of idolatry.  They must fully prepare themselves to divorce their husband if he doesn’t submit to their authority:

Step Three – Surrender Your Pride and Your Idols to God

This one is hard. This one hurts a little bit. (Or if you’re like me, a whole lot!) But it’s one of the most important steps for those seeking true healing. I’m going to ask you a few questions. They’re hard questions. Please take your time, seek God, and answer them as honestly as you can.

1.) Does the thought of your marriage ending bother you more than the thought of living with this sin forever?

2.) Are you more horrified by the idea of everyone knowing you “failed” at your marriage than you are at the idea of there being a secret sin in your marriage that no one knows about but you and your husband?

3.) Do you believe God would prefer for you to be abused than divorced?

4.) What’s more important to you, obedience to God, or the approval of Christians?

Once Christian wives repent of the sin of making an idol of their marriage, they will be prepared to set and enforce boundaries on their husbands:

Step Seven – Make Strong, Clear, Biblical Boundaries

I could write a whole book on the importance of Biblical boundaries… oh, wait. I have!

[Promo for her book at Amazon]

What does the Bible say about relational boundaries? Find answers to that question and many others. Learn how to define, establish, and implement healthy, God-honoring boundaries in your own life with the Biblical Boundaries Workbook. Available now on Amazon!

You guys, second only to seeking God, this is the most important step on this list! And frankly, if you’re seeking God, He IS going to lead you to make strong boundaries that honor Him.

If you have no idea where to start, check out this series I wrote: Biblical Boundaries, or just buy the workbook, which takes all the information in the series and adds tons of interactive questions to help you figure this issue out for yourself. If you know you need to make boundaries, but you have no idea where to start, or how to do it in a way that honors God, this book will show you where and how to find the answers! By the time you finish it, I guarantee you’ll have good solid boundaries ready to go and know everything you need to know about how to keep them.

The whole site is packed with statements like this.  For example, from one of the posts in the Biblical Boundaries series she links to she explains that at times she is tempted to waver in dominating her husband.  But then the Bible reminds her that wives must dominate their husbands (emphasis mine):

This is probably the area I struggle most in. It doesn’t “feel” loving to say, “If you do x, I will have to ask you to leave our house for 90 days.” It feels mean.

The thing is, I can see it easily with my children. I totally get that setting strong boundaries with them and enforcing painful consequences when they disobey is a loving way to set them up for success in life. I can understand that as a result of my delight in them, I will faithfully discipline and correct. But my husband is not my child. My friends, my parents, extended family members are not the same as my children. Sometimes it doesn’t feel like I have a right to “discipline” those people.

Then I read a passage like 1 Corinthians 5. Wow!

Sisters, God has commanded us to establish and enforce boundaries around morality with all believers! Why? As an act of love. Verse 5 shows us that disciplining such violations will basically force the person to hit rock bottom, which is the most likely way to see him restored.

Related:

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This entry was posted in Complementarian, Threatpoint, Too traditional to be traditional, Traditional Conservatives, Turning a blind eye, Ugly Feminists, Wake-up call. Bookmark the permalink.

247 Responses to They’re too traditional to submit to their husbands.

  1. Charles B says:

    I eagerly await the emphatic urging to tell wives who do not obey Biblical commands to leave the house. /s

  2. tteclod says:

    I’m struck by how she equates the authority of a local church, the Corinthians, with her authority at home. At a minimum, if she had a dispute with her husband, wouldn’t she be obliged by Christian scripture to first complain to her husband, then bring some friends (presumably including men), and finally seek arbitration from the church?

    It’s never said how the Corinthians resolved their challenge with the man shacked-up with his mother in law, but if, upon challenge, he repented, wouldn’t he be admitted back to fellowship? A 90-day eviction from my home by my wife would signal her adultery. I wouldn’t even consider returning to her.

  3. vandicus says:

    Superbia. Something our society has an excess of.

  4. purge187 says:

    Her book plugs – ugh.

  5. Cindy Dyer says:

    The girl’s so screwed up that the blog “team” consists of herself, her alter ego, and her husband. Good Lord, she disciplines her husband, all by herself, like she’s somebody. Tell me this is fringe. What’s her readership like.

  6. Jake says:

    It’s weird that following God’s commands always ends with riotous approval from “christains”.

    I wonder if this guy doesn’t look forward to the exiles.

  7. Steve Peters says:

    “Her thoroughly broken and traumatized husband looks like a kidnap victim trying to signal for help.” This is absurd. I am Esther’s husband. If you were really that concerned about me, you could have reached out. Contact info is on the blog. I could have explained the amazing things God has done in my life and in our marriage.

  8. Christopher Conrad Nystrom says:

    “If you do x, I will have to ask you to leave our house for 90 days.” – First, even though I am married, I do not live in “our house”. I live in MY house. I paid for it. If it is not my house, I am not living in it.

  9. Damn Crackers says:

    3.) Do you believe God would prefer for you to be abused than divorced?

    Remember the good ol’ days when marital abuse was slapping your wife when dinner was served cold and not just looking at a pair of t**ts on a laptop?

    If she is referencing 1 Cor 5, why doesn’t she just excommunicate her husband and all porn consumers? Obviously, she has the authority.

  10. TheWanderer says:

    Love her ‘8 steps’ rant: “A pornography problem is not a marriage problem, it is a sin problem. If your husband is bound by this addiction, it isn’t your fault!”

  11. John Marcucci says:

    Where in the Bible does it suggest or mandate wives to divorce their husbands? Or draw “boundaries?” And by what logic do they equate a man looking at women, with a man getting into an adulterous relationship with his own mother in law? Not seein’ it. But I guess that would prove I am not convicted or saved, or whatever.

    Oh.. and, my wife could certainly ask me to leave the house for 90 days, but she shouldn’t hold her breath waiting for it to happen. Saints preserve us, where do these people come up with these silly notions?

  12. Gage says:

    What a shrew.

    I had to laugh when she said “if you do x then I will have to ask you leave our house for 90 days”. What a joke that is! If you are married to a woman such as she, i’m not sure that it would be in the best interest of that woman to give her man a glimpse of how liberating a life free of her could be. He might decide that 90 days is way too short.

    I truly dont understand how men put up with that crap. life is just too short. It reminds me of a close friend whose wife went out of town for a few days and he related to me how for a brief few days, there was no tension or stress in the house. He and his kids had a great time. Then she returned and he told me that immediately, the tension and stress returned. He looked so defeated when telling me this. Even admitting such, he refuses to address the issues with his harpy of a wife. I guess he is more comfortable slogging through a lifetime of tension then standing up to his wife and confronting her with her sin.

  13. Lexet Blog says:

    Perhaps the only way to counter this crap, and change the culture, is for men to just mock women whenever they have an opinion. Start making it shameful for them to speak their bird brained ideas. Stop conceding the “because you are human, your thoughts are valued” bullshit line of reasoning.

  14. AnonS says:

    Since most Christians lack any critical thinking skills, they don’t know how to make sense of a moral hierarchy.

    A point made by Stand to Reason, adultery in the heart and murder in the heart are not the same thing as adultery and murder. This is why we have different civil punishments for them. The point was that it is enough to not be perfect.

    Of course we treat different sins differently. This is also why you could have a situation in which the moral thing to do is lie to uphold a higher moral value (like life).

  15. Flat Lander says:

    @Gage
    The tension and the stress is the first thing I ask my clients to think about . Peace at home is the thing they learn to appreciate the most after they start recovering from their breakup.

  16. AnonS says:

    You don’t have a relationship with a constant sword of Damocles over your head.

    Proverbs 19:

    11 A person’s wisdom yields patience;
    it is to one’s glory to overlook an offense.

    12 A king’s rage is like the roar of a lion,
    but his favor is like dew on the grass.

    13 A foolish child is a father’s ruin,
    and a quarrelsome wife is like
    the constant dripping of a leaky roof.

    14 Houses and wealth are inherited from parents,
    but a prudent wife is from the Lord.

  17. OKRickety says:

    tteclod,

    It’s never said how the Corinthians resolved their challenge with the man shacked-up with his mother in law, but if, upon challenge, he repented, wouldn’t he be admitted back to fellowship?

    I think most scholars believe that 2 Cor. 2:5-9 is a follow-up to this situation. It seems that he had repented, but the congregation was not accepting him back into fellowship. Paul tells them to “forgive and comfort him”.

  18. white says:

    Watch Steve Peters charge out of nowhere to defend his lady’s honor!

  19. Minesweeper says:

    “Her thoroughly broken and traumatized husband looks like a kidnap victim trying to signal for help” – hilarious also true.

  20. Junkyard Dawg says:

    Hi Steve,
    I did scroll down on that page and indeed you don’t look so happy in those photos, but maybe just having a bad day? I don’t suppose you would want to dialog a little with any of us commenters on this blog? A verse that comes to mind is “iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another.” I do think that if your wife is trying to discipline you, by whatever means that is done, that this is not a good position to be in.

  21. I’m always amazed at how well the passages from 1 and 2 Timothy apply to everything nowadays.

    1 Timothy 6:3 If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not [d]agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, 4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he [e]has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, 5 and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that [f]godliness is a means of gain. 6 But godliness actually is a means of great gain when accompanied by contentment.

    2 Timothy 3:1 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, [a]haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to a form of [b]godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. 6 For among them are those who [c]enter into households and captivate [d]weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, 7 always learning and never able to come to the [e]knowledge of the truth.

    I suppose, in this case, the women are leading themselves astray rather than men.

  22. OKRickety says:

    Steve Peters,

    If you are still reading here, I am not going to argue whether God has worked in your life or not. However, I will say that your wife’s understanding of 1 Cor. 5 to mean that she has the right to “excommunicate” you from your home is not in line with the full context of that passage or Matthew 18:15-17 where Jesus himself teaches the process of “excommunication” for sin. She does not have the power to either judge or enforce her own judgment. In other words, her understanding is wrong and she should be corrected.

    As a Christian man and her husband, you have the responsibility to stop her false teaching. I pray that God will work in you to do that.

  23. feministhater says:

    Steve, do you get to set boundaries for your wife and if she breaks these, how can you punish her?

  24. feeriker says:

    Steve Peters says:

    If you were really that concerned about me, you could have reached out.

    Do you need help? If so, you’ve come to the right place. I recommend that you go back through this blog’s archives and just start reading. Admittedly, it’s a daunting amount of reading, but the education you will receive will be well worth the time and effort. Your wife will assuredly not be happy, but that’s really not your problem.

    Do avail yourself of this offer. It will change your life and lead you out of your misery.

  25. Of course we treat different sins differently. This is also why you could have a situation in which the moral thing to do is lie to uphold a higher moral value (like life).

    No you can’t. One can never do evil in order that good may come of it.

  26. Abolt says:

    OMG! This woman is a total heretic! She is sinning and in rebellion against God for usurping her husbands role, and Lording over him. And he is committing the sin of Adam by listening and submitting to his wife. Gosh, I just can’t catch my breath in the face of such brazen sinfulness by this wife. Pornography use by her husband pales in comparison.

  27. feeriker says:

    “Since most churchians lack any critical thinking skills, they don’t know how to make sense of a moral hierarchy.”

    FIFY. True Christians (however minuscule in number they are) take heed of Jesus’s instruction to be “wise as serpents” as well as gentle as doves. Churchians are both intellectually lazy, if not downright ignorant (in both a worldly and biblical sense), and insincere in their faith. Thus the need for a paid hireling to feed them heretical Soma rather than reading their Bibles themselves and absorbing and living the CHRYSTAL CLEAR instructions of the Faith.

  28. white says:

    Forget it guys, Steve ain’t coming back. Haven’t you heard? You need to go to his wife’s blog to look for his contact, and then contact him, where he will tell you wonderful things! LOL

  29. Junkyard Dawg says:

    Tim,
    Christians who were persecuted under Communist regimes in places like Romania lied when the police asked where Christians were hiding that they came searching for. This moral dilemma about telling an untruth for a greater good has received a lot of mileage already, so I won’t go into it here. In one of those cases in Romania, they had a problem with a young girl of about 8 who took it too literally that she should always tell the truth and when the secret police came to her house and asked where a pastor and some others were hiding, she told them and they were taken to jail. Was it good for her to tell the truth? Of course not.

    Most of us are never in such situations anyway, so it’s mere speculation in our cases. There is also tact, when someone asks your opinion on something (for example, your opinion on their 2,000 kitchen renovation project), you should just say that it looks good or some such thing, even if you don’t think so. This whole subject came up in a Bible study recently in church about the verse “putting away falsehood, speak the truth to one another.” There’s tact, there’s telling the truth graciously (not letting a person have it about all the things wrong with them) and there’s also telling the truth about what God is doing in our lives (not being ashamed of the truth or denying Christ, like the world does).

  30. AnonS says:

    No you can’t. One can never do evil in order that good may come of it.

    Nice lack of thinking you are showing here. Do we use deception in war? Looks like Rahab got a sweat deal for lying from God.

    Joshua 2

    Then Joshua son of Nun secretly sent two spies from Shittim. “Go, look over the land,” he said, “especially Jericho.” So they went and entered the house of a prostitute named Rahab and stayed there.

    2 The king of Jericho was told, “Look, some of the Israelites have come here tonight to spy out the land.” 3 So the king of Jericho sent this message to Rahab: “Bring out the men who came to you and entered your house, because they have come to spy out the whole land.”

    4 But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. She said, “Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from. 5 At dusk, when it was time to close the city gate, they left. I don’t know which way they went. Go after them quickly. You may catch up with them.” 6 (But she had taken them up to the roof and hidden them under the stalks of flax she had laid out on the roof.) 7 So the men set out in pursuit of the spies on the road that leads to the fords of the Jordan, and as soon as the pursuers had gone out, the gate was shut.

    12 “Now then, please swear to me by the Lord that you will show kindness to my family, because I have shown kindness to you. Give me a sure sign 13 that you will spare the lives of my father and mother, my brothers and sisters, and all who belong to them—and that you will save us from death.”

    14 “Our lives for your lives!” the men assured her. “If you don’t tell what we are doing, we will treat you kindly and faithfully when the Lord gives us the land.”

  31. Daniel says:

    God tells wives exactly how to deal with unrepentant husbands.

    Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; while they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

    But we all knew that already. And they don’t like God’s solution.

  32. @Steve Peters So why do you allow your wife to blog false teachings?

  33. 53 says:

    Do you think they would tell men it is ok for them to divorce their wives if they won’t stop reading romance novels?

  34. drifter says:

    I recommend that you go back through this blog’s archives and just start reading. Admittedly, it’s a daunting amount of reading, but the education you will receive will be well worth the time and effort…
    I second that.

    Forget it guys, Steve ain’t coming back.
    Bet he does. He may not comment (at least under his real name), but I bet he comes back to explore a little. And some advice when you do, Steve: don’t turn off that accountability software. Your wife (over whom you are head) needs to see this.

  35. Genx72 says:

    Looking for an article from Scott’s blog americandadwordpress. The site is gone no archives. Name of article, ” The story of Jim.”

  36. Genx72 says:

    Brother from work was arrested for DV. Job automatically suspended him 30 days with out pay. Was hoping to find some articles and information in the vein of Scott’s article and wisdom.
    Thanks

  37. feeriker says:

    “[We] don’t like God’s solution.”

    Truth in advertising, or just simple honesty, demands that this be the official motto of Churchianity, Inc.

  38. Gunner Q says:

    Steve Peters@ 11:52 am:
    “I am Esther’s husband. If you were really that concerned about me, you could have reached out. Contact info is on the blog. I could have explained the amazing things God has done in my life and in our marriage.”

    You already explained those amazing things and we know Stockholm Syndrome when we see it. Quoting you from the linked article:

    “I started rebelling internally when I was a teenager and became addicted to pornography and lust at a young age but kept things looking good on the outside. My sexual addiction continued through my relationship with Cherith and into our marriage.”

    That was neither sexual addiction nor rebellion. That was normal, healthy male sexual attraction to women. Something to be restrained and directed, yes, but neither abnormal nor unusual. Your porn use continued in marriage because your wife neglected your legitimate sexual needs.

    “I partially surrendered to God in my early 20s and went forward in Church to profess my faith. This surrender was short-lived due to my secret sins.”

    You were ill-taught. All Christians have regular trouble with our favorite sins. All who claim to not have “secret sin” are either lying or cavorting in public. It is no reason to shun Christianity; the sick need the doctor, not the healthy.

    “It wasn’t until I got caught in one of many affairs that I finally gave up and surrendered my life to God. I’m incredibly blessed, despite my repeated betrayals, to still be married to a woman who loves me unconditionally and to be chosen by the God of the universe to spend eternity with Him!”

    Do you mean to say, you gave up and surrendered your life to God’s chosen agent, your wife? God has never chosen a woman to rule over a man.

    Photographic proof of her rebellion against you:

    See how she poses in front of you? Almost blocking you out of the picture? A position of dominance. Don’t believe me? Next time, insist on HER standing behind YOU. See how well she accepts not being the center of attention.

    Her hair is cut short and styled masculine. Look at your wife! She’s practically a trannie, her appearance is so lacking in femininity! And the look in her eyes is predatory.

    Speaking of hair, what’s wrong with yours? Is that an intentional lattice design on your forehead? Women are supposed to have long hair as a head covering but your head in covered in styled hair while she’s between pageboy and bald.

    This pic, and it’s not unique, shows a nearly perfect INVERSION of Biblical sex roles. Christianity is not what you have been told it is.

    Here’s a way to prove to yourself that what I say is true: Give your wife a new pen name. Her current one is an insult against you. “Esther Hosea”, seriously? The first name is the one commonly used to describe a person and the second is the family name traditionally coming from the husband. She thinks of herself as Queen Esther and you as Hosea the Cuckolded.

    You are the head of your marriage by decree of God. Exercise that authority. Order her to change her pen name. See how stiff her neck is.

  39. Dalrock says:

    @Gunner Q

    Your porn use continued in marriage because your wife neglected your legitimate sexual needs.

    We don’t know that. It seems likely to me that her need to exert power and control over her husband didn’t suddenly appear many years into their marriage, and using denial of sex as a form of control would certainly be a common temptation. But from what I have read of the site we don’t know that is what happened. Moreover, his sin really is his sin. If she defrauded him and created a vector for Satan to tempt him, that would be her sin. But his giving into the temptation still is his sin.

  40. This is true, but there is one point that stands:
    Attraction to pornography or naked women when you’re a teenage boy is not a sin. It is normal.

    LOOKING AT pornography is a SIN. BEING LUSTFUL is a sin. But any teenage boy who does NOT admit to having those TEMPTATIONS, at least, is lying or may have a problem.

  41. feeriker says:

    She thinks of herself as Queen Esther and you as Hosea the Cuckolded.

    Does she not realize that by adopting “Hosea” into her avatar, her delusions of Esther notwithstanding, that she is identifying herself as Gomer?

  42. Wow. This is a crazy blog. Do you all really believe that you are to dominate and control your wife?

    And your support of men who use porn and call it healthy is insane! Porn is a Perversion. Saying that if she gives him more sex will cure him of his addiction is wrong.

    I know that you will read this comment and think I’m wrong but it looks to me as if many of you are abusers of your wives. Saying that This man is committing Adams sin is not in conjunction with Scripture. Yes, Adam sinned when he ate the fruit but he wasn’t deceived by the serpent. Adam chose to do what he did.

    I feel bad that you are being deceived.

  43. vandicus says:

    I would stipulate the sin is very mitigated by the fact that he has done what he is supposed to by marrying. The cure for strong sexual desire is supposed to be marriage. If a man marries but is denied the right to address his sexual needs he is being forced to be chaste(something which he has acknowledged he cannot do by marrying).

    By analogy, one one avoids needing to steal to eat by getting a job. If one is not paid despite working because it has become the custom to not pay workers, then the sin of stealing to eat is greatly reduced. It remains theft but practical means of avoidance have been denied(in theory he can still hunt or forage but this is impractical or unrealistic for most people, much like complete abstinence).

  44. vandicus says:

    That is of course assuming he were denied.

    If the wife’s response to the porn problem was to help him(iykwim) then there would be no mitigating factors(even an unmarried fellow trying to marry or someone who is ignorant of the sinful nature of the action has mitigating factors).

  45. Eduardo the Magnificent says:

    She thinks of herself as Queen Esther and you as Hosea the Cuckolded.

    Worse than that, she never refers to him by his name in any of the articles. He is never Steve, just “my love”. She’s embarrassed about the fact she married him and took his name. Or perhaps she didn’t, which would let the cat out of the bag.

  46. vfm7916 says:

    Looking at an image of a naked woman or a naked woman in the flesh is not a sin. That’s normal, as is your natural male attraction for such visual input. That’s working as intended by design.

    Where it gets to be sin, and where the whole “sinning in your heart” comes into play, is the why. If you’re doing it to commit adultery, or have the will to commit adultery, then it’s sin. I’m not a fan of Paul’s Pharisee background in regard to sexual ethics or morality, nor the effects of chivalry and puritanism on the sexual relations of man and wife.

    I’m not going to play “who’s a better sinner” with Steve, but the situation sure resembles Adam and Eve in the garden.

  47. @junkyarddawg

    There’s a difference between lying and withholding the truth. It is sometimes lawful to withhold the truth, but it is never lawful to lie. If it is ok to lie in order to save lives, then it is also ok to, for instance, steal in order to give alms.

    Being too forthcoming with the truth can be imprudent, but withholding the truth does not require lying.

    @AnonS

    As Aquinas and Augustine both day, sometimes those in Scriptures are rewarded not for perfect virtue but for virtuous sentiments or orientations. Rahab in that instance was rewarded because she feared God and had a virtuous disposition towards God’s servants even if she sinned by lying. The same is true of the midwives in Exodus.

    And there is Romans 3:7-8:

    For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie, unto his glory, why am I also yet judged as a sinner? [8] And not rather (as we are slandered, and as some affirm that we say) let us do evil, that there may come good? whose damnation is just.

    If we cannot do evil even if that evil may abound to God’s glory, then it’s fairly obvious that we can’t do so for a lesser reason, such as to save a life or spare another’s feelings.

  48. Mountain Man says:

    I suggest that we take Steve’s recommendation and contact him. Not to browbeat him, but to encourage him. I just sent the message below. I’m posting it here so Steve has access to it, even if his wife acts as a gatekeeper and deletes it before he sees it, and also as a source for ideas in case anyone else wants to send something similar to him.

    ——————

    Hi Steve,

    This message is addressed to you, Steve, and not to your wife. She is free to read it, but it’s for you. I sincerely hope it gets to you and is not deleted by your wife before you have the chance to see it.

    I saw your post on Dalrock’s blog, and am following your request and reaching out to you.

    Your wife has some very unbiblical ideas about marriage, and is teaching her heresy to others. It is your responsibility to correct her error by washing her in the water of the word. It sounds like you have been raised in North American evangelical culture, and may not know what that means. That’s not your fault. You have just received and believed these heretical ideas from your Christian upbringing and surrounding “church” culture. Much of what goes by the name “Christianity” is extremely gynocentric, and ignores or distorts much of the bible.

    It would do you good to spend some time reading over at Dalrock. He does a good job of analyzing and critiquing both the church and the culture from a biblical framework. But equally valuable (perhaps more valuable) is the back and forth in the comments section. There are some incredibly wise and articulate men who comment regularly. Both Dalrock and the commenters have challenged my assumptions, driven me back to the bible, and helped me to correct the lies taught to me by the church and the culture. I don’t agree with everything I read there, and doubt anyone does. But it has been incredibly valuable for me, and I recommend it to you.

    Fair warning, though, it won’t be easy. In addition to the wise and articulate commenters, there are also some who are a bit bristly. Some may just have bristly personalities, and some may be going through the difficult process of recovering from their mistreatment and abuse by women. Regardless of the difficulty of dealing with unfamiliar concept, and the bristly people, it is still very valuable. Incredibly valuable! It’s a real life example of “iron sharpening iron” in a way that the “church” does not provide, or even allow sometimes.

    So go to Dalrock. At least read all the comments on the post from today. Keep coming back as more comments to that post are added, and feel free to jump into the discussion as well. Then go back and start reading past blog posts and the comments.

    I wish you the best in this endeavor.

    In Christ,

  49. vandicus says:

    TimFinnegan,

    Some of the Judges were assassins.
    Some sins are context driven. Thou shalt not kill vs the death penalty or being a soldier.

    On the very relevant topic of porn, some things are pornographic to some people that are not pornographic to others(images of children and animals or individuals of the same gender for people with those predilections).

    It is a sin to treat someone unjustly but by our imperfection all systems of human justice are imperfect. It is not however sinful to have a system of legal judgement despite the fact that such a system will deal unjustly with people.

    Not arguing that all sins are contextual or that there are often exceptions, but that there are sometimes exceptions.

    Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?

  50. Iowa Slim says:

    Good on you, Mountain Man

  51. AnonS says:

    No you can’t. One can never do evil in order that good may come of it.

    Rahab in that instance was rewarded because she feared God and had a virtuous disposition towards God’s servants even if she sinned by lying.

    So which is it? Did good come from her lying?

    Judges 4

    18 Jael went out to meet Sisera and said to him, “Come, my lord, come right in. Don’t be afraid.” So he entered her tent, and she covered him with a blanket.

    19 “I’m thirsty,” he said. “Please give me some water.” She opened a skin of milk, gave him a drink, and covered him up.

    20 “Stand in the doorway of the tent,” he told her. “If someone comes by and asks you, ‘Is anyone in there?’ say ‘No.’”

    21 But Jael, Heber’s wife, picked up a tent peg and a hammer and went quietly to him while he lay fast asleep, exhausted. She drove the peg through his temple into the ground, and he died.

    If we cannot do evil even if that evil may abound to God’s glory, then it’s fairly obvious that we can’t do so for a lesser reason, such as to save a life or spare another’s feelings.

    That isn’t what Romans is talking about, it is saying that the idea that sinning more means showing more of God’s glory is incorrect. Not that sinning does actually increase God’s glory; it actually reduces it even if it makes it more visible (they are condemned BECAUSE they violate the moral hierarchy).

    A moral hierarchy is required to do any action.

    Realize Paul’s writing on obeying government authorities is him writing from jail.

  52. thedeti says:

    Joel and Kathy Davisson 2.0.

  53. Horst Muhlmann says:

    JYD:
    “Christians who were persecuted under Communist regimes in places like Romania lied when the police asked where Christians were hiding that they came searching for. ”

    There is no dilemma here. I don’t think such lies are sins. See Rahab, who went from being a harlot to an ancestor to The Lord Jesus Christ Himself (Joshua 2).

  54. thedeti says:

    A 90-day eviction from my home by my wife would signal her adultery. I wouldn’t even consider returning to her.

    Any husband hearing this from his wife should (1) tell her that he is not leaving; and (2) immediately see a lawyer, file for divorce, and get a protective order directing her to leave the home and an order of temporary exclusive possession of the home.

    A wife saying “leave the house” should be met with “I’m not leaving. YOU are.”

  55. @Vandicus

    Murder is always wrong. Killing is not always murder. It is one thing to argue that it’s not evil to do something in a certain context but it’s an entirely different thing to say it is good to do an evil that a greater good may come.

    Pornography is one of those things that is always evil, which means the evil is in the object and not the disposition of the consumer. Pornography consists in portraying sexual acts to third parties, and something either is or is not a portrayal of a sexual act; it doesn’t change from person to person.

    @AnonS

    It was evil to lie, and she shouldn’t have lied, but because she feared God he rewarded her for the virtue of that fear of God, independent of her sin of lying. Hawk did not do evil by killing the man, because she had done God’s will; Sisera was delivered to her hands by God as Deborah prophesied.

    And Roman’s is saying that God’s glory does abound, is seen more clearly, through some sins, but that does not mean one can sin in order to glorify God. God’s justice is shown when He punishes sinners, but that does not mean it is ok to sin in order to show forth god’s justice. The ends do not justify the means.

  56. Junkyard Dawg says:

    @ TimFinnegan

    I get your point about Romans 3:7-8, however look at the context there, in Chapter 3 and in the first chapter, which led up to that point. It is about living a life that is an entire lie and denying God. Certainly not “I am condemned because when they asked me where the person they wanted to kill was hiding, I told them ‘I don’t know.’ ”

    But, greater minds than my own have labored over this point, and well, I don’t want to live a life that denies the existence of God.

  57. vandicus says:

    TimFinnegan,

    I’m saying lies are not always evil/a sin. Murder, which assassination always is, is not always evil/a sin. The very framing of murder vs not murder is manmade(collateral damage from bombing for instance).

    You have a very narrow definition of pornography then. Swimsuits Illustrated and scantily clad women would not be pornographic in your eyes. Neither then would all but the most debauched romance novels.

    Some things that are not generally sinful are sinful to specific people. Substances that are narrowly addictive are sinful to take for those who know they would become addicted to them.

    Some sins apply only to specific gender. Women should not teach. Some sins depend on one’s place in society. It is not a sin for a king to rule, it is a sin to usurp that authority.

    Wooing an unmarried woman is not a sin, wooing a married woman is.

    Once more, is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?

    In regards to the good doctors, their theology is not dogma and disagrees on it regarding some points(though that dogma was not defined at the time of their writing). Saints often write in contradiction to one another, as they are generally theorizing and not delivering divine revelation.

  58. Iowa Slim says:

    @ Steve Peters

    It’s one thing for you to cave to this agenda in your own home. Your wife’s heretical online rebel-rousing is burning down other men’s marriages and wrecking their children’s childhoods. Whether you abdicate your authority or assert it, you’re an influential man. What kind of influence do you want to have?

  59. thedeti says:

    When a wife starts putting down boundaries for her husband, it’s all over.

  60. Scott says:

    Another one of these instances where mainstream “Christianity” rubs up against Dalrock and the Christian manosphere.

    Fascinating times indeed.

  61. Junkyard Dawg says:

    Looking back at the “his dearly beloved daughter” website and seeing blog posts with titles like these: “Waiting for the Other Shoe to Drop: Is He Still Lying to Me?” and “Navigating the 3 Stages of Healing from Betrayal Trauma” and “Triggered: Practical Steps to Overcome the Debilitating Reminders Around Every Corner.” Especially that last one. She’s never going to let him forget it, and she’s going to keep reminding him about it and not only that, she writes a blog about it, books about it and talks to other women about what he did! I mean, it must be rough to be Steve!

    Admittedly, it’s not the only subject of her blog, but does Steve ever tell her, “OK! Enough already!”

    I mean, a book review on a book called “Your Sexually Addicted Spouse.” It’s like she’s making a cottage industry out of “betrayal,” and in that case, you have to keep the fires stoked, or you run out of goods to sell, and Steve is the punching bag.

    She also reminds me of the saying “a punishment in search of a crime.”

    I mean, so when does Steve get to know that “as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us”? Ps 103:12.

    Anyway, just my thoughts as I peruse that blog….

  62. Warthog says:

    ” I am Esther’s husband. If you were really that concerned about me, you could have reached out. ”

    More likely you are Esther using Steve’s account again. But supposing you are Steve, I feel for you. Not only does your wife treat you like a doormat, she has exposed you to public disrespect.

  63. Oscar says:

    Via RS McCain: here’s a gem for you single gents.

    https://theothermccain.com/2019/05/24/strong-delusion/

  64. Lost Patrol says:

    @ Junkyard Dawg

    Anyway, just my thoughts as I peruse that blog….

    Let us know if you find evidence that the husband ever makes it to the “good dog” portion of the training program and gets a commensurate reward. Up to now, all I can envision is a woman with a stern look, shaking an index finger, saying “bad dog”.

  65. Frank K says:

    Via RS McCain: here’s a gem for you single gents.

    Does she also want a pony?

  66. Frank K says:

    Do you all really believe that you are to dominate and control your wife?

    If you reject what the Scriptures say, and are a cafeteria churchian, then just say so.

    Also, I presume your wife gave you her permission to post here.

  67. Junkyard Dawg says:

    @ Lost Patrol:

    Dalrock only told part of the story. The longer I looked around on that blog, the more I realize, it must be rough to be Steve. She needs him to be the perpetual “bad dog,” or else she has no more product to sell / traffic in.

    A second thing I wonder is if Steve had a damaged goods upbringing, where he would feel only right staying in a situation of being trodden underfoot. I can relate in some ways, but there’s always waking up to reality as I have at least tried to do something about it after taking the “red pill” (as much as a cliché that has become, but still…)

  68. @Vandicus

    The distinction between killing the innocent (in the pertinent sense) and killing the guilty is not manmade, it goes to the essence of the act chosen; man has observed it, but man did not make the difference. They are two distinct objects, the one being intrinsically evil (admitting no exceptions) and the other not. Some sins are of course due to defects in intention and circumstance, but murder is not one of them, and neither is lying. The defect is in the object of the act, the thing chosen, and so there are no circumstances or intentions that can justify it. The reason being that the proper end of speech is to tell what is on our mind; to say what is directly contrary to what is in our mind is therefore to pervert the faculty of speech. This does not mean we cannot avoid saying what is on our mind, by withholding the whole or even part of it, but we cannot speak directly contrary to it.

    And just because I don’t think SI swimsuit isn’t pornography doesn’t mean I don’t think it’s wrong. It’s very obviously gross immodesty, but it isn’t pornography.

    I think obviously it is lawful to heal on the Sabbath, since Christ did so. And he explained why it was not a violation of keeping the sabbath; but that’s the point, it wasn’t a violation of the 3rd commandment. Lying is always a violation of the 8th commandment, just as murder is always a violation of the 5th.

    If there is no distinction between murder and killing which isn’t murder, and that killing is sometimes ok, then it remains that potentially abortion is licit in the right circumstances/with the right intention. If lying is sometimes ok, then perjury (a species of lying) will also sometimes be ok.

  69. Scott says:

    Douglas Triplett, todays white knight discoverer of the manosphere

  70. Scott says:

    Somebody get the smelling salts for the faint hearted pearl clutcher on the couch

  71. locustsplease says:

    @Doug tripplett
    Your happy wife happy life cuck bull×hit isnt the road god planned. We get it your wife owns you your home your income the threat of her leaving controls all your interactions. I completely understand she doesnt owe you anything even to b nice.

    Where in scripture does it tell husbands to submit to the authority of a domineering abusive wife who publicly shames you.

    Simply using this comment section to prop yourself up is posturing that shows you are absloutely not in authority of your relationship.

  72. drifter says:

    I wonder if Doug and Steve have that app that Cane told us about a while back.

  73. drifter says:

    …here’s a gem for you single gents
    yes, a real pearl of great price, that

  74. Dave says:

    Steve looks like a poor man’s Oliver Reed – notice how he is a background prop and she is always center stage every picture she is in.

  75. JRob says:

    That’s it, this post and commenter Doug T. have convinced me. I have been deceived! I’m getting married again! Giving away one house and 401k wasn’t enough to right the wrongs I’ve done by proxy to wymnz all these centuries.

    Speaking of predatory eyes, I revisited Reframing Ministries after being reminded of it perusing the mentioned blog. I brought this up last year. Chuck Swindoll’s hyphenated daughter. She took her manosphere-stereotype life story down from the page. Also gone is her favorite authors list, which included a Who’s Who of mystics, heretics, and grifters. She did leave this with The Glasses a nifty three minute video. Eye bleach.
    https://reframingministries.com/about/reframing-ministries/

  76. Scott says:

    Doug employs a super hot sexy tingle producing husband game move consisting of a fedora tip to all the m’lady “brides” out there.

  77. Scott says:

    I’m hoping Doug will come back tomorrow. I think I speak for all of us when I say I can’t wait to find out how it worked when he shows his pearl of great price how he stood up to the misogynists here.

    Please report the details brother!

  78. BillyS says:

    Most of you are not old enough to remember when the JC Penny catalog was the “porn” of the day. Anything that stirs up lust is not good. Sin is of course sin, but some are not quite as harmful as others. Persistent and more hard core porn use that springs out to other things is not a good thing at all, but ignoring contributing elements, like no outlet in a permanent marriage, is ignorance gone to seed.

    It reminds me of how my exwife complains about how many computer games I played, yet spent her time glued to TV almost every night. Just ranting about one thing ignores the deeper problems.

    Steve,

    You are married to an angel who never makes mistakes? If you will admit she does, as all humans do, will you use her same logic on here when that happens? Or is only the man to be the subject of harsh discipline from his wife? Keep in mind that has no Scriptural support and completely ignores what is written. (Your wife is not a church authority, so using Scriptures on that, such as I or II Corinthians is stupid at best, evil at worst.)

  79. Robert What? says:

    So the simple message to Christian husbands is: no sex until you stop using pornography. And by the way, no sex afterwards either. Correct?

  80. Spike says:

    One good reason NOT to marry a contemporary church woman, aka a “churchian”, but I prefer the term CINO: Christian In Name Only*
    Someone needs to tell this insufferable MANIPULATOR thus:
    “Listen up, bitch. Your husband is doing porn because he’s not getting his rightful sex from you”
    It could be done in church, but I think the old ladies would object and make the Truth Bomber apologise
    *CINOs are common on dating sites. They will say they’re Christian, but when asked about sex, they will say, “Noton the first night! LOL!”

  81. Lost Patrol says:

    Can’t find evidence that Doug employs any type of husband game at all. I’m not saying Doug isn’t married, nor ever was; but I am saying that a never married white knight makes the best cartoon.

    https://elkhoundmedia.com/

    https://dougtriplett.com/

  82. Scott says:

    LP

    Word

  83. @Doug

    And your support of men who use porn and call it healthy is insane! Porn is a Perversion. Saying that if she gives him more sex will cure him of his addiction is wrong.

    You are a liar and deceiver in just that first line. Before this entire combox you have committed the equally grave sin of calumny against a brother, and the punishment for calumny is the same as a man who is unrepentant about porn consumption.

    So good job, “pastor.” You cannot even rebuke someone without committing a potentially mortal sin.

  84. @Vandicus

    If the wife’s response to the porn problem was to help him(iykwim) then there would be no mitigating factors(even an unmarried fellow trying to marry or someone who is ignorant of the sinful nature of the action has mitigating factors).

    A wife who is unwilling to help her husband get out of his porn problem and reconcile with him has completely failed to obey the second commandment.

    You want to know how to drive women mad on such issues when they start talking about feelz and abuse and everything else emotional?

    Ask them to meditate on the Lord’s Passion. Demand of them that they think about the Lord’s suffering for an objectively worthless, unlovable race, how a perfect God sacrificially loved us even though we deserved annihilation. Then ask them “how are you going to look Him in the eye and say ‘I was justified in disobeying the (1st|2nd) commandment.”

  85. Horst Muhlmann says:

    “Lying is always a violation of the 8th commandment”

    Answering the question “Does this dress make me look fat?” bears false witness against whom, exactly? Unless you are married to Olive Oyl, and you answer yes out of malice, which is never the context in real life.

  86. JRob says:

    Also stereotypical, God told Esther Hosea stuff.

    Truthfully, starting the blog was simply an act of obedience. God clearly asked Cherith to do it, and she obeyed.

    When Cherith first started His Dearly Loved Daughter, God made it clear to her that a pen-name was in order (at least to start out). As she prayed over a name, He gave her Esther Hosea

  87. Scott says:

    OT

    Please let me know if this stuff is getting tedious, and uninteresting. Here is my latest TSPS video.

    Carry on.

  88. Rum says:

    It is obvious that the women that “Steve” was supposedly boinking were less attractive than his “wife.” Otherwise she would not have such bottomless contempt for him.
    If they had been proper hotties she would be now trying to wife him up better instead of smearing her virtue signalling goo all over the interwebs.
    The very fact that she puts out this sort of thing in a blog is proof that she gets off stronger from the victim posing and attention whoring than she could possibly imagine getting from being in an improved relationship with him. Because, in her hind brain, he is now a loser. A completely desperate, bottom-feeding supplicating omega that she hates the sight of…

  89. Junkyard Dawg says:

    @ Rum

    Was Steve actually carrying out affairs with other women? Or just doing that “virtually,” aka looking at porn? It’s not really clear from his wife’s website. It just seems that she is outraged (and is building a business based on the fact) that he was looking at porn, a lot. If he was carrying out an affair with a woman, although it is not right, that would mean that he was able to get women interested in him, and he really does not appear to be the kind of man that women are chasing after, but you never know.

  90. theroyalfamilyi says:

    @GunnerQ
    Her hair is cut short and styled masculine. Look at your wife! She’s practically a trannie, her appearance is so lacking in femininity! And the look in her eyes is predatory.

    Speaking of hair, what’s wrong with yours? Is that an intentional lattice design on your forehead? Women are supposed to have long hair as a head covering but your head in covered in styled hair while she’s between pageboy and bald.
    I don’t know what you’re seeing, but I’m not seeing that. She just has her hair tied back, dude. Same with all the pictures on her site (which seem to be from the same shoot). As for this dude, his bangs are a bit long, but that’s it. It’s almost certainly not done purposely in any way, as you can see from the rest of his hair, which is very plain. Probably trying to cover up for balding up front (being married to this harpy is probably quite stressful).
    Everything else you said is probably correct. Especially about the dominance thing. And looking at the rest of her pictures I could find, there’s some crazy in her face.

  91. Junkyard Dawg says:

    She is essentially trying to make money off the fact that her husband was looking at pictures of women that are not her. (Ever hear of monetizing / making money off blogs?) It’s the new business model, get enough followers on your blog and sell books to them, and you don’t ever have to work for an employer again. I really would hate to be in Steve’s shoes, however. At the same time, if it wasn’t for him, she would not have a claim to fame. In using him as a commodity to promote her blog and make money online, I would hope that she would cut him a break… alas, probably not.

  92. Alex says:

    I’ve been a long-time reader at this site and I agree with a lot of what the author writes.

    In this case, I feel like a lot of you have been very harsh on the lady. I read a bit about her story and it isn’t just about the husband looking at pornography. He also engaged in multiple affairs.

    https://hisdearlyloveddaughter.com/2017/01/28/story-facing-off-monster/

    According to the Bible, because of the affairs, the wife has a valid reason to divorce him. But instead of doing what is easy, she’s doing what she can to save the marriage and to save her family. She may not be doing what you think is best, but she is taking the narrow road to the best of her abilities.

    Maybe her website revealing the faults of her husband is to bring his sin into the light and to dissuade him from turning to sin again.

  93. Abolt says:

    The elephant in the room regarding men looking at porn is the same as polygamy. Men have always looked at other women besides their wives. In the OT they could take another wife. It was NOT a sin so long as the new wife was not already married, which is adultry. God Himself said He would give David more wives if he was not satsified. His sin was taking another mans wife, not looking at other women. Also, the passage in the NT about lusting after another “woman” is better translated as “wife”. Which would make sense. A man cannot commit adultery by looking at an unmarried woman, only by lusting after a married woman who is another mans wife. Then he HAS committed adultery in his heart.

  94. Abolt says:

    In fact, the Jews practiced polygamy up till and past the time of Christ. It was the pagan Romans that practiced strict monogamy, and when Constantine made Christianity the state religion, monogamy was mandated and incorporated into the church. So the whole idea of men sinning in their hearts by looking at women is false. It is in their nature and not sin, unless they covet/lust after a married woman, who is already the “property”/possession of another man.

  95. Dalrock says:

    @Junkyard Dawg

    Was Steve actually carrying out affairs with other women? Or just doing that “virtually,” aka looking at porn? It’s not really clear from his wife’s website. It just seems that she is outraged (and is building a business based on the fact) that he was looking at porn, a lot. If he was carrying out an affair with a woman, although it is not right, that would mean that he was able to get women interested in him, and he really does not appear to be the kind of man that women are chasing after, but you never know.

    They clarify in this series that it was a real affair. There is a bit of motte and bailey going on here. They are selling a program for wives to dominate their husbands if he has ever looked at porn (basically all husbands), with at least the implication that this is actual infidelity. But their own story involves both porn and actual infidelity. Blurring the lines allows them to sell rebellion to all Christian wives while retaining the option to strategically (and temporarily) retreat to the subject of actual infidelity whenever seriously pressed. It is quite clever.

    Their primary problem is selling this particular rationalization for rebellion is a very crowded field. I think it was Deti above who aptly pointed out their uncanny similarity to the Davissons. Creating a new franchise in this space will be a real challenge. They are basically selling the plot to Fireproof a decade too late. Their other more minor problem is how ugly the pictures are on their website. They make rebellion and marital crossdressing look ugly.

  96. Abolt says:

    Men and women who think otherwise are really following the Feminine Imperative. Monogamy either actually or in cyberspace is a control mechanism. One that Esther is using to her powerful benefit. Before this BS became accepted as biblical Steve would have just taken another wife, and put Esther “out to pasture”. That’s what Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomonand most other husbands who were’nt cucked would’ve done!

  97. Abolt says:

    Dalrock, did you delete my post about the proper interpretation of lusting after a woman/wife?

  98. Abolt says:

    Correction: about the pagan Romans mandating monogamy?

  99. feeriker says:

    Also stereotypical, God told Esther Hosea stuff.

    Ain’t it just AMAZING that what “God tells” wimminz just happens, 99.999999 percent of the time, to be exactly what their itchy lityle ears want to hear?

  100. CK says:

    Doug Triplett translation:
    “DULUTH! Duluth duluth duluth. Duluth duluth.

    “Duluth duluth duluthdultuth. Duluth!”

    “In conclusion, duluth and buy my books.”

  101. Warthog says:

    @vandicus. “Murder, which assassination always is, is not always evil/a sin.”

    I think what you were trying to say is not all killing is murder. Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being. Judicial execution and war may be lawful killing of human beings.

    Likewise, using porn is clearly lusting after other woman, many of whom are married to other men. Yes, it is “adultery of the heart” as Jesus said. However, viewing porn is not a crime in the way that physical adultery is a crime, and it does not give rise to the same sanction (separation or divorce).

    Yet, in my observation, there is only one law in the Bible that defines a women’s grounds for divorce, and fornication/adultery by the husband isn’t one of them.

    Exodus 21:7-11 defines the rights of a concubine wife, which was a woman sold into marriage without a dowry.

    “If he takes another wife, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, and her marriage rights. And if he does not do these three for her, then she shall go out free, without paying money.”

    Note that her husband may take another wife, yet this is not grounds for divorce. If he fails to provide food, clothing, and conjugal rights to her, she may divorce him, without a refund.

    Nothing in the NT changes this. Fornication and adultery are grounds for a man to divorce his wife. Failure to provide is the only grounds a woman had to divorce her husband.

  102. RichardP says:

    … it was a real affair …

    Affairs, plural. At some point, he came clean on the first one. While they were working to rebuild the relationship and trust broken by the first affair, he had a number of other ones. According to her – he would be out having sex with a woman not his wife, and then come home to wife and children and proceed to work on rebuilding the trust and relationship he had damaged with the first affair.

    If this entire website is not a contrived story, if it is telling the truth, she is telling the truth about a monster. If you read what is there, and if it is true, this is no situation where he is acting out because she doesn’t sex him up as much as he needs. Rather, she paints a picture of someone with no conscience, no empathy, someone who sees others as objects he can use for his own benefit. The person she thought she had bound herself to in marriage does not exist. Instead, she is bound to someone that has no place at all in the dreams she had for how her life would play out. Any counselor worth their salt will tell you that that is a major shock to anyone’s system. Again, if this is a true story, I am guessing that she is still in shock and is fighting against accepting the truth of the situation she finds herself in. There is no reason to think he is not out there getting his jollies with other women while he helps “wife” with blog design and proof-reads her posts. But she is clinging to the belief that he is not doing that – even though he did it before.

    When a person suffers such a shock to their internal schema of how their life will play out, it takes a while for them to accept the need to build a different schema – one that can also incorporate their children (pre-teen and teen). She can’t just go out and attract another guy who will provide for her and her kids and will love her and her kids. She has to play the hand she was dealt (a pretty sh*tty one if her story is true), and I think she is struggling mightily to stay afloat. And I think she is still in denial. God can do anything he wants to (see Saul on the road to Damascus). But if he hasn’t acted in this situation, antisocial personalities don’t change. They just get better at hiding their dirty deeds. And she has to pretend that things are OK, when they probably are not. So she has created a figure in her head that she can believe in and calls him “my love”. Because she can’t believe in the guy with the real name, and at some level she knows that.

    This, guys, is what faith is all about. What trust is all about. A person links their life with another, thinking that the other has their best interests at heart. And then discovers that they do not. But yet one must go on living with the person who has demonstrated that they do not have your best interests at heart. Once the trust is destroyed, for the rest of your life trust becomes a conscious choice. It does not occur naturally. Faith and trust in the other person become a concious choice to step out in faith. If we live long enough, everyone close to us will fail us at some point. If we keep that person in our life (because everyone with a belly button gets a 20% margin for error), the relationship only moves forward because we choose to trust, not because trust comes easily, without thinking about it. That process is what the loss of innocence is all about. That is what finally moving through life as a grown-up is all about. And it is never easy. But it is doable, because it is a choice. And when a person has revealed themselves to be a monster, the choice should be to get them out of your life. Except for when you can’t (small children with abusive parents; grown women with children and no marketable skills).

    This is not an easy life. And it is not one size fits all. But that won’t stop a lot of the guys here from passing judgement anyway.

  103. RichardP says:

    Dirty Deeds, done dirt-cheap:

  104. Nick Mgtow says:
  105. Nick Mgtow says:

    Older single women want younger women as unhappy and miserable as them:

    Halle Berry advises younger women to wait until 40 to have kids.

    https://www.xonecole.com/halle-berry-has-this-advice-for-women-over-40-who-want-to-have-baby-just-do-it/?share_id=4608945

  106. 7817 says:

    This, guys, is what faith is all about. What trust is all about.

    Richard P Lionhearted?

  107. JRob says:

    Alex,

    Put the shoe on the other foot. A wife reads romance novels, FSoG, whores around, then God magically tells the husband to start a blog publicly airing her slaggery and putting his boot on her neck. What would your average SBC pastor say?

    Any difference you see here? Sin is sin. Using another’s sin for social dominance and attention seeking is also iniquitous. This is the point; complementarian Bizarro world submission must be advanced at all costs, no matter who’s hurt as long it’s not wymnz.

  108. JRob says:

    Uteroanity 101.

  109. drifter says:

    The Biblical punishment for adultery; i.e., a married woman willingly having sex with a man who is not her husband, is death to both that woman and that man. If the man who is executed had his own wife, she is now free to move on. However, what are her Biblical marital obligations if the governing authority fails to perform this duty of punishment?

  110. purge187 says:

    “Halle Berry advises younger women to wait until 40 to have kids.”

    I recall reading somewhere that hers is one of the very rare instances in which the woman winds up paying alimony to her ex. Misery loves company.

  111. Trust says:

    It’s easy to market discontentment with wives, because discontentment is a natural struggle for them. Just like it is easy to market sex to me, because temptation is a natural struggle for them.

    It’s insidious and ingenious to market a wife’s natural struggle with discontentment as proof a husband isn’t right with God.

  112. Trust says:

    @Trust: It’s easy to market discontentment with wives, because discontentment is a natural struggle for them. Just like it is easy to market sex to me*, because temptation is a natural struggle for them.

    It’s insidious and ingenious to market a wife’s natural struggle with discontentment as proof a husband isn’t right with God.
    __________

    Errrr…. that was supposed to read “easy to market sex to men.” The typo amuses me though.

  113. Opus says:

    Yesterday, I had wondered whether the HDLD Ministries blog was a scam. I could not see an address or phone number merely the DONATE button. I, however, am clearly in need of their assistance for like most men I respond on occasion to visual images of half-naked females. I am so embarrassed about this; if only I were Gay (the prefered state nowadays) I would be able to cease my mental rapes of these innocent young maidens and prevent them from selling their bodies for a fee.

    This week in my local paper another up-market property (about one hundred yards from mine) has been revealed as a Brothel. The girls are Chinese and the reason the police became interested was because the girls kept coming out on to the sidewalk for a post-coital cigarette. It not being a Chinese takeaway there were just too many of them for it to be legit. The press, unwilling to go so far as to suggest these poor innocent women were Slaves but hinting at it put it this way, that they had been ‘put to work’. My heart bleeds for no woman should ever have to work even if all that were involved is lying on her back. Trust me I have never met a prostitute who looked either forced into or unhappy with her work. Those poor Chinese girls are surely desperate to become Shorthand Typists or Nurses (and at a fraction of their present remuneration). Happily I don’t go for Asian birds and so I am not responsible for their plight, Officer, as they live a life their sisters in China can only dream of.

  114. Eduardo the Magnificent says:

    To those saying Steve didn’t commit adultery by looking at porn: of course he did. If this man’s wife, or any of the pixelated women he looked at, have “married Jesus”, who is the real man of the house, then it’s an open-and-shut case of adultery, and no punishment is too good for him.

  115. Minesweeper says:

    @Opus says:”I, however, am clearly in need of their assistance for like most men I respond on occasion to visual images of half-naked females. I am so embarrassed about this; if only I were Gay ”

    well if you were you would escape the clutches of the Mt 5:28 scam :
    “..I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully…”

    I guess the (male) gays get a free pass on this one, obviously lesbians don’t.

  116. thedeti says:

    Joel and Kathy Davisson 2: Electric Boogaloo

  117. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    “Halle Berry advises younger women to wait until 40 to have kids.”

    I recall reading somewhere that hers is one of the very rare instances in which the woman winds up paying alimony to her ex. Misery loves company.

    Lena Headey (aka Queen Cersei) is also in that club. In 2007, Headey married Peter, a rock musician (who never made it big). Peter moved from Ireland to Los Angeles to be with Headey, because her career demanded it. She was doing The Terminator TV series at the time.

    In 2011, a year after Game of Thrones came out and Headey became a big star, she filed for divorce. She got joint physical custody of their baby son. She then violated the court agreement by moving, with her son, to England.

    So Peter was stuck in L.A., a city he never wanted to live in. He sued for Headey to bring their son back to L.A., and for alimony. Peter ended up getting some (over $10k a month, I think), and visitation rights to his son in England.

    Headey is reportedly bitter than her ex-husband sued for, and won, alimony. Women are outraged whenever they have to support a man.

    Headey later bragged about her great decision to bring her son to England, because her son told his grandfather “I want to be just like you.” It made me think, that boy is desperately seeking a father figure, except his father has been kicked out of his life. So he’s latching on to his granddad.

    Meanwhile, Headey married another man, the father of her daughter.

    It also made me think, Headey brags about how close her son is to his grandparents, growing up with them. But what about the other set of grandparents? Her ex-husband’s? How many crumbs of time do they get with their grandson every year?

    Headey wrecked her ex-husband’s life, her in-laws lives, her son’s life, yet she paints herself as a putting family first. (Seems all women like to give that impression.)

    Headey’s always screaming about grrrl power and gay rights. After all that, and considering how she treated his father, I’ll bet her poor son grows up to be gay or tranny.

  118. Frank K says:

    Dirty Deeds, done dirt-cheap

    That sound was inspired by “Dishonest John” of the old Cecil and Beanie Boy cartoon show:

    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/f/fe/Dishonest_john.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130512213133

  119. Frank K says:

    Second try

  120. CK says:

    @Eduardo the Magnificent
    well done 🙂

  121. CK says:

    @Richard P
    Your hand-waving and emoting about faith and trust falls flat here. What are you specifically advocating for, and what is the Scriptural basis for it?

  122. @CK

    He is saying that this woman actually married the kind of man who is the stuff of evangelicals’ nightmares when it comes to sex and porn. So she is living in shock and denial and the only way her marriage has a hope in hell of surviving is if she consciously chooses to sacrifice and fight her way through his sin.

    I think most of us have met or known men who were that type. Look at Josh Duggar. He had a pretty attractive, extremely sweet-natured wife who clearly was what most of us would want in a wife and look at how he treated her.

  123. Lost Patrol says:

    If this entire website is not a contrived story, if it is telling the truth, she is telling the truth about a monster.

    RichardP often provides a counterpoint to the story at hand, food for thought, and in this case one can’t say his assessment is wrong. The thing about a lot of counterpoints in the men’s sphere though, is that they wind up being – The Conventional Wisdom.

    The man behaves badly (might even be a monster), the woman is beleaguered. This is the ocean in which we all swim day and night. A story well known and widely internalized. It is standard issue.

    What you get at Dalrock’s are counterpoints to that conventional wisdom. A side of the story not told elsewhere. A thing unobserved or actively obscured until he brings it to light.

    The story here is about a wife’s actions to bend the husband to her will, whatever he may have done or not done. To carry out an assignment, from God, to put this man back under female control; in this case via a public airing of his failings accompanied by instructions other wives may use to similar effect (also products can be bought from the site that must somehow be helpful to the buyer).

    As Dalrock notes,

    It seems likely to me that her need to exert power and control over her husband didn’t suddenly appear many years into their marriage,…

    The woman in command scenario rarely pops up on the scope suddenly, as an immediate action to some new threat. It is systemic and that is what is being shown here.

  124. BillyS says:

    Abolt,

    You are full of it. Enough women don’t exist for everyone to take another wife, let alone several. Most are not David, Solomon or whoever. They also lived in a society where a lot more men died in war, so more women needed a man’s protection.

    That is not the case today and adding wives would just add troubles, especially when they decided to file for divorce for cash and prizes.

    Monogamy is the way God made things. Complain to Him if you want (and I am sure you do). Some violated that and got away with it, though Solomon really didn’t in the long run. His son lost most of the Kingdom and he is not really highly spoken of later on, saying even the flowers are clothed better than he was by Jesus.

    Just where do all of you who continue to push polygamy think this pool of women is? And how do you think “taking another one” would solve the divorce rape problem?

  125. BillyS says:

    I shudder to think what the women looked like who had affairs with Steve. I suppose I could have a harem if I didn’t mind getting a lot of weight along with it. Blech.

  126. BillyS says:

    ID,

    I never watched their show nor followed the later Duggar stuff, but I would greatly question how “nice and wonderful” the wife you note was. A woman can appear just great on the outside and be very nasty in real life. I know that from personal experience, unfortunately.

    It doesn’t require any bad behavior on the husband’s part to achieve that state either. Some men are bad, but most are just normal human beings.

  127. feeriker says:

    I shudder to think what the women looked like who had affairs with Steve. I suppose I could have a harem if I didn’t mind getting a lot of weight along with it. Blech.

    If Steve was thirsty enough after being denied for long periods by that shrike of a wife, I doubt that he was very concerned about the looks of his conquests. “Three holes and a pulse” was probably his only criterion, given that sex was probably all that mattered and the only thing he wanted.

  128. Opus says:

    @Red Pill Latecomer

    God save us form celebs lecturing us on ‘Gay Rights’ – I notice there is no such thing as Straight Rights (for men). If they really believed all they pontificate upon they would (if male) offer free Blow Jobs to oppressed Gays. It is after all only a part of the body. If you are not Gay it won’t mean a thing. What exactly then is your problem with helping out the Gay community who you claim to care for so much. The same test can be made to those who worship refugees yet never let out the rooms of their mansions to the said refugees and those who revere women but somehow never give up their jobs for the said objects of their admiration but by excluding other men create soft harems.

    It does not of course work quite so well in the first instance if the celeb is female as girls are always kissing and hugging each other. What I always imagine is having a conversation with a female who sounds-off on the virtues of tolerance for sexual minorities having berated me as a homophobe and then I ask her explaining that I am about to have a ‘sexual emergency’ that as a tolerant women will she give me a blow-job. She will of course recoil in horror but before she reaches for her cell-phone to dial 911, I say ‘look its only skin, and does not mean anything to you’. I had a friendly acquaintance – a very handsome dare-devil of a chap at whose feet (or rather crotch) women threw themselves. Being so handsome, a fat queer of our acquaintance told said friend that as he was so handsome he was desirous of giving said friend a blow-job. Said friend who was up for any challenge could not for the sake of his daredevil reputation refuse and so it happened. Come to think of it I saw him receiving the same favour in a bar one night (from a black woman) and i must tell you that whatever his ex-girlfriends may say he is not that big, really.

  129. illuvitus says:

    “4.) What’s more important to you, obedience to God, or the approval of Christians?”

    Obedience to God, which eliminates the possibility of divorce or threats about divorce, and would force a husband to love his wife no matter what and a wife to submit to her husband no matter what.

    Speaking of idols, she uses the name God but means something else completely. Can’t get more idolatrous than that.

  130. illuvitus says:

    “His son lost most of the Kingdom and he is not really highly spoken of later on, saying even the flowers are clothed better than he was by Jesus.”

    Off-topic, but the context of Jesus’ reference makes it clear He wasn’t denigrating Solomon. The presumption is that Solomon represented the height of opulence and splendor, and yet God is so much greater, there’s no comparison.

  131. Dalrock says:

    @Lost Patrol

    The story here is about a wife’s actions to bend the husband to her will, whatever he may have done or not done. To carry out an assignment, from God, to put this man back under female control; in this case via a public airing of his failings accompanied by instructions other wives may use to similar effect (also products can be bought from the site that must somehow be helpful to the buyer).

    This is where the motte and bailey routine comes in, with RichardP (and countless like him) playing the flawless shill. She tells all christian wives (wives of husbands who sin) God wants them to dominate their husbands, and He wants her to profit from mass rebellion.

    RichardP sees this as proof of great faith on her part.

  132. I remember a psycho feminist mod over at Christian Forums that went by “Cherith”. Place your bets.

  133. bigjohn33 says:

    Steve is alpha.

  134. bigjohn33 says:

    His wife hasn’t divorced him even though he put his weiner in multiple women while he was married. Women dont tolerate that from betad.
    Steve has Game. Gotta respect that.

  135. bigjohn33 says:

    I think this womans craziness comes from the fact that she loves her husband more than God and she has a hard time with that. She’s advocating wives leveraging porn as a get-out-of-marriage-free card for betas. But this guy isn’t beta. He’s a crazy alpha Poon hound and she loves him for it. All the antics are just rationalizing.

  136. Iowa Slim says:

    In my observation, there are three kinds of people who cheat on their spouses. Those who are being cut off sexually at home (usually men), those who do it to inflict pain on their mates (usually women) , and those who lack impulse control (stray-bullet personalities of either sex). Some of those latter have addictions, neurological problems, or personality disorders. I don’t know what’s going on with this pair, and I was wrong to speculate.

    I do know a couple (good friends, Catholic) who ran into comparable problems and decided to save their marriage. They disclosed everything to their priest and to the licensed professional their priest recommended. To the rest of the world they observed discretion. They’re classy, sensible people, you see.

    They didn’t lay it out on the internet. It apparently didn’t occur to them that seriously screwing up their lives qualified them to hand out advice to others about how they should manage theirs. It doesn’t appear that their problems got resolved by publicly making one of them a black sheep or second class citizen of the marriage.

    And (perhaps because they’re not evangelicals) they didn’t form [insert name here] MINISTRIES.

  137. bigjohn33 says:

    Steve has to be laughing at these comments. Everybody here seems to have him pegged as a submissive henpecked loser groveling because his wife caught him watching porn. That isn’t it at all. When Steve is talking about dealing with sexual temptation he’s talking about his ongoing daily struggle in which he implores almighty God to help him resist the temptation not to seduce and bang your wife. This isn’t your run of the mill beta who uses porn because he can’t get laid with his own wife fellas. This guy is a chad. But he’s trying, Ringo. He’s trying REAL HARD to be the shepherd.

  138. JRob says:

    The bigger picture is the motte and bailey fallacy. A believing man CANNOT retreat to the keep named, “Women cheating and watching grrlll porn is wrong everybody in society is in unison” which makes the attackers retreat even from the bailey where the original attack was. Where the fallacy is. “My woman went post-marital carousel relapse so now I can publicly abuse/dominate her because the motte! You can’t attack it because it’s Right and True! A given!”

    This woman is doing just this to rebel and lead other women into open DOMINANCE of their husbands. And all these men won’t be guilty of the pet sin used to protect the keep from attack. “You can’t say my high heel on his neck is wrong because reasons (porn).” No complementarian will have any problem whatsoever with this, complementarians built the Keep on top of the hill.

    Believers know sin is wrong and destructive. Husband has sinned; wifey is sinning by openly raking this man over the coals and encouraging other women to follow suit.

    Alpha beta omega zeta whatever. Protecting the Keep in the defense of the FI takeover of Christendom is the real point.

  139. @BillyS

    I never watched their show nor followed the later Duggar stuff, but I would greatly question how “nice and wonderful” the wife you note was. A woman can appear just great on the outside and be very nasty in real life. I know that from personal experience, unfortunately.

    Greatly question on what grounds? Last I read, she’s trying to reconcile with him despite the fact that he committed a mountain of sins against her and his sisters that most men HERE would agree are grounds for a divorce that starts with monkey stomping his nuts right out the door of their home. Sure, she MIGHT be secretly nasty, but I’d put that right up there with the odds that Dalrock is really running a crazy long run troll op on us.

  140. Pingback: They’re too traditional to submit to their husbands. | Reaction Times

  141. JRob says:

    ” And all these men won’t be guilty”
    should read
    “And not all these men will be guilty”

  142. Robert What? says:

    I tried posting this comment on her article: “Maybe he has a porn problem because that’s the only sex he gets in the marriage.”
    Naturally it was deleted.

  143. American says:

    It’s so right to be free, to know that none of these cat collectors will ever entangle me in their ungodly madness! EOM.

  144. Dota says:

    I left this comment on Esther’s blog, though I doubt that it will be published.

    Esther

    This might sound strange, but I actually feel sorry for your husband. Any man would prefer the intimacy of a willing and loving woman over the shallow simulacrum of porn. It is clear you neither love nor respect your husband, which is why this website exists – to perpetually denigrate him while you virtue signal to the world. This humiliation no doubt feeds his addictions which in turn allows you to continue virtue signalling. I pray that your husband finds the strength to exit this parasitic relationship before it destroys his soul.

  145. Dave says:

    Why men marry and put up with women who turn them into mere figureheads, right in their own homes, is still a mystery to me.

  146. Frank K says:

    Everybody here seems to have him pegged as a submissive henpecked loser groveling because his wife caught him watching porn.

    If he was the Alpha you think he is, he wouldn’t tolerate the way he is treated. If he were an alpha, there would be no website, as she would be in dread of losing him.

  147. I expect Steve Peters to change his name to “Tonya” soon.

  148. Iowa Slim says:

    From the website linked in the OP. Top blog entry, “Is He Still Lying to Me?”

    “…So how can I know if He’s still lying to me? Well, the fact is, a person who is truly repentant will live in the open. He will be willingly transparent. He’ll respond to your doubts with humility and gentleness. He’ll be open to finding ways to prove himself to you such as regular therapeutic polygraphs.”

    Regular therapeutic polygraphs?

  149. Novaseeker says:

    “Steve” sounds like a jackass. The website is further jackassery, but the fact that he had actual adulterous affairs basically deep sixes the whole example.

  150. BillyS says:

    ID,

    Those who always blame the man are at fault for me doubting the Duggar stuff if it really is true.

    Claimed actions and reality are not always the same. I am having a hard time finding exactly what he has claimed to do, though I can find a little bit whining about him on the sites that ignore the sins of progressive leftists, but who make up ones about any not in that category. I remain skeptical if he is as bad as is claimed. He may be, but the loudest ones crying against him have made up many other “crimes” in the past (and continue to do so) against those that don’t agree with their agenda.

  151. Nick Mgtow says:

    I’m glad they found her…

    But most of her trouble could have been prevented if she had taken some measures.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/26/us/hawaii-hiker-survived-17-days-in-forest/index.html

  152. Nick Mgtow says:

    Dave:
    “Why men marry and put up with women who turn them into mere figureheads, right in their own homes, is still a mystery to me.”

    We have no idea. We have no idea how women really are. We’ve been fed lies. Only “The subjugated man, ” from Ester Vilar, and living it or witnessing it that men understand. Communities where men share their experiences, and how common they are are really new. The red pill is really new.

  153. Novaseeker says:

    We have no idea. We have no idea how women really are. We’ve been fed lies. Only “The subjugated man, ” from Ester Vilar, and living it or witnessing it that men understand. Communities where men share their experiences, and how common they are are really new. The red pill is really new.

    For today’s young men, yes. In older generations with larger families it was less needed. The reason is that men had sisters and could observe them at close range, and were therefore not nearly as subject to being snowed by the FI propaganda in the ambient media. As family sizes have shrunk, fewer men have sisters, and therefore fewer men really have seen how women act in a context where they are not in a fog of being erotically smitten (as they are not with their sisters/cousins/etc.). The demise of the family has a lot to do with how clueless contemporary men are as to the ways of women.

  154. Liz says:

    “Steve” sounds like a jackass. The website is further jackassery, but the fact that he had actual adulterous affairs basically deep sixes the whole example.

    Yep. But the “regular therapeutic polygraphs” is also…odd. This is a very dysfunctional family, offering advice on how to function as a loving family. Which is kind of par for the course in the internet…comprised largely of people offering “sage” advice about things they have either failed at, or have no experience in. I’d reconsider if they had a decade or so under their belt as a functioning family…but all this happened just two years ago or less.

  155. thedeti says:

    “Regular therapeutic polygraph”= lie detector test

  156. Liz says:

    Yes, regular “therapeutic” lie detector tests for one spouse to establish “trust” is many levels of f*ed up.

  157. Jack Russell says:

    Got this from following Nick Mgtow’s link. Christian comedian’s wife leaves him. He never had any vices and didn’t believe in sex before marriage. Maybe he wasn’t pulling in huge $$$.
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/24/us/pete-holmes-comedian-religion/?iid=ob_article_footer_expansion

  158. bigjohn33 says:

    @Frank K

    She is in dread of losing him. Are you kidding? In spite of her faith she hasn’t left him even though he has had “many” extramarital affairs. She only spouts off on this website because he encourages it.

    Saying he’s not a real alpha because a real alpha wouldn’t tolerate this is just wrong. Steve isn’t just “tolerating” this, he’s aggressively participating in it. He’s working really hard to be more beta. Which is understandable. When he lets loose his inner alpha it’s only a matter of time until his penis is in another woman. And he doesn’t want that because he’s trying to be a good Christian man.

    The advice Steve and his wife are giving is harmful because most men have the exact opposite problem which is needing to be more alpha.

  159. bigjohn33 says:

    I think this is more common than we realize. Dalrock is right on the money pointing out harmful relationship advice especially coming from pastors. But it is a mistake to conflate giving beta advice to being beta. It’s easy to project that onto a situation when it really isn’t there. Pastors are certainly contextual alphas in their churches and I’ve noticed a disproportionate number of youth pastors with little or no time in the ministry have above average looking wives. That was always a frustration of mine in my 20s when I was in a new town looking for a church and a wife. The prettiest girls at the church were generally the youth pastors’ wives. There is some natural alpha going on. It correlates with leadership in the church.

    I think it’s important to understand where these guys are coming from when they give their bad advice. They think it works because they have attractive wives (and other women) giving them sex and attention inspite of their feigned try-hard betatude.

  160. LM says:

    Her methods may be ridiculous, but pornography is insidiously evil. Having watched my fair share in the past I quit completely some time ago.

    Think about how your emotional core is processing watching other men repeatedly get laid while you jack off in the bushes. The conclusion: you are pathetic and unworthy to participate! And then the dopamine rush from orgasm strongly anchors this activity as critical to your reproductive success. So pornography addicts you to feeling like a loser! No wonder we have so many pathetic soyboys.

    As a bonus, excessive ejaculation is actually quite unhealthy. Look up how much zinc you lose every time.

  161. Iowa Slim says:

    @ Liz

    “Yes, regular “therapeutic” lie detector tests for one spouse to establish “trust” is many levels of f*ed up.”

    That is where I was going with this. As gynocentric as most therapists/counselors/psych professionals seem to be, I bet that being caught participating in this sort of weirdness would cost one of them their license–or at least their professional liability coverage.

    This guy’s mistakes have apparently been capitalized upon to justify an agenda of extreme control. I wish they could focus on getting realistic help from competent, reasonable people.

  162. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Pence celebrates West Point’s “most diverse” graduating class ever: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7070155/Mike-Pence-address-diverse-graduating-West-Point-cadets.html

    The class was the most diverse in West Point’s history, and Pence said he wanted to acknowledge ‘the historic milestones that we’re marking today.’

    The 2019 cadets included 34 black women and 223 women, both all-time highs since the first female cadets graduated in 1980.

    The academy graduated its 5,000th woman Saturday.

    The 110 African Americans who graduated were double the number from 2013.

    Pence said the graduates also included the academy’s 1,000th Jewish cadet.

  163. Liz says:

    This guy’s mistakes have apparently been capitalized upon to justify an agenda of extreme control. I wish they could focus on getting realistic help from competent, reasonable people.

    Yeah…the whole thing is kind of strange. The blog started a month after, according to her, she discovered the extent of the infidelity/whatnot. I could understand a personal private journal at that point, but starting a blog on the subject is a bit like bringing a bunch of cameras in to do a reality show.

  164. Jonadab-the-Rechabite says:

    Reverse the roles and tell husbands to set the same boundaries she advocates for Christian wives including to kick their wives out of the home for 90 days for doing “x”. Duluth practitioners will scream “abuse”. Not only does this she-wolf teach wives to avoid submission by controlling their husbands but she advocates for the abuse of husbands. She uses Christian sounding rhetoric, no doubt deceiving many, but under the wooly fleece is a ravenous she-wolf seeking to devour the flock.

    I wonder what part of 1 Peter 3:1 she does not understand? “Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives.” Seems like the part about being subject to she rejects outright, after all it trespasses her boundaries. Certainly the part about winning a husband without a word has escaped her conduct. It seems as though her boundaries also fence out Titus 2; that older women are to teach the younger women “To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.” Her boundaries seem to include blasphemy, ignoring selected scripture and spousal abuse. Her family resemblance makes me think daughter of the prince of darkness, not daughter of the King. Maybe it’s just the forked tongue.

  165. @BillyS

    Those who always blame the man are at fault for me doubting the Duggar stuff if it really is true.

    Claimed actions and reality are not always the same. I am having a hard time finding exactly what he has claimed to do, though I can find a little bit whining about him on the sites that ignore the sins of progressive leftists, but who make up ones about any not in that category. I remain skeptical if he is as bad as is claimed. He may be, but the loudest ones crying against him have made up many other “crimes” in the past (and continue to do so) against those that don’t agree with their agenda.

    I remember the accusations quite well. His own father admitted he knew some of them. Examples:

    * Molesting his little sisters (his own father admitted he took him to the police over this to “scare him straight”)
    * Banging multiple women apparently starting early in the marriage.
    * Banging a porn star while his wife was pregnant with 3 small kids.
    * Being on Ashley Madison (how he was caught)
    * Serious use of porn

    The very fact that last I heard she was trying to reconcile with him despite the fact that he has effectively wiped his ass with his vows strongly suggests that she is essentially WYSIWYG on her appearance and character.

  166. Jonadab-the-Rechabite says:

    @lm Everyone should accept that your individual experiences are the only valid method to establish a universal ethic. Individual situations, individual diversity and divergent knowledge and understandings are inconsequential compared to your experience. It would be narcissistic virtue signaling to do other than to interpret the world through your eyes alone. </s

  167. Frank K says:

    The 2019 cadets included 34 black women and 223 women

    Who will all suddenly get pregnant should they receive dangerous deployment orders.

  168. Frank K says:

    She is in dread of losing him. Are you kidding? In spite of her faith she hasn’t left him even though he has had “many” extramarital affairs. She only spouts off on this website because he encourages it.

    You’re free to believe that if you wish.

  169. Opus says:

    @RedPillLatecomer

    Would that be the same Mike Pence who will not unless accompanied by his wife be in the same room as another woman?

  170. Opus says:

    @Novaseeker

    …and yet men today spend their schooldays cheek by-jowl with half their class members being of the female sex.

  171. BillyS says:

    The fact that even Pence has been corrupted by this is why the near future does not look bright.

  172. BillyS says:

    OT:

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/776227/sex-robots-tech-news-ai-harmony-1960s-revolution-the-pill

    I will admit being somewhat amazed at how lifelike they seem. Still the creepy factor, but some will get over it quite easily.

  173. Anna says:

    And ugly feminist of the month award goes to…

    Bonus points for her posturing:

    “This is probably the area I struggle most in. It doesn’t “feel” loving to say, “If you do x, I will have to ask you to leave our house for 90 days.” It feels mean.”

    I’m a good girl! Unlike those domineering wives!

  174. feeriker says:

    Pence celebrates West Point’s “most diverse” graduating class ever:

    GOOD! The very last thing I want this collapsing, Godless, tyrannical kleptoligarchy to have is a strong and effective military force. It would make my decade to read that the West Point and Annapolis graduating classes of 2023 will consist entirely of women and trannies.

  175. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    BillyS, those sexbots do NOT look at all human to me. They look like rubber mannequins. Zero sex appeal.

    Of course, the sex appeal of your typical tattooed landwhale (with black lipstick, shaved on one side of her head) is a negative 10. Compared to that, a zero sex appeal sexbot looks good.

  176. Nick Mgtow says:

    ByllyS , I agree , absolutely agree with the creep factor. It looks like a dead, cold body. I can’t get hard on that.

    Now, imagine having the doll for the feeling, and VR Porn and maybe and AI with it. Some guys already marry virtual gfs in Asia, right?

    That wouldn’t be such a shocker for them.

  177. Opus says:

    A doll is a doll even if it is eighth in line to the throne.

  178. It says a lot about men that we’re so caught up in “muh freedumbz, muh libertayz, muh conztitushunz!!” that we would rather a future of sex dolls and radical feminism than a future where Liberalism has been put to the sword and traditional norms have been reimposed by the sword by an authoritarian government**.

    ** Think Pinochet or Franco. Oh, you’re a feminist agitator, we have the perfect place where you’ll learn the errors of your ways through hard work and patriotic sacrifice.

  179. feeriker says:

    It says a lot about men that we’re so caught up in “muh freedumbz, muh libertayz, muh conztitushunz!!” that we would rather a future of sex dolls and radical feminism than a future where Liberalism has been put to the sword and traditional norms have been reimposed by the sword by an authoritarian government**.

    This is where libertarianism is bumping up against hard reality and not fairing very well.

  180. CSI says:

    “Yes, regular “therapeutic” lie detector tests for one spouse to establish “trust” is many levels of f*ed up.”
    Lie detectors don’t work anyhow. They may detect stress, but the correlation between this and lying isn’t strong enough to qualify as “lie detection”. They are just a stage act. But their whole marriage sounds like they are acting out a submission-domination sexual fantasy.

  181. Jesus Rodriguez de la Torre says:

    It keeps being asked how a husband can make his wife submit. This I have an answer to IF the wife is truly a Christian: threaten to tell God she is unruly. Not the misandric modern Church that no longer preaches the clear Scripture; I mean threaten her that you will have a conversation with Christ through the Holy Spirit to do something about her rebelliousness. This will bring either ridicule or just amused disbelief from those on this thread that actually do not believe in a truly personal Trinity that is really there and truly not silent. But if there;s any of you who actually believe, and have a wife who truly believes, this is no laughing matter. While both my wife and I are 100% certain that our salvation has nothing to do with our actions; we’re both terrified of God. The same God we feel a constant love and con-forting presence with,is the same that we shudder to disappoint. My wife is a godly woman. She thinks that I am a godly man. She knows what the Scripture requires her to respect and obey me, and those few times she gets rebellious I remind her often with just a glance of WHo she is ultimately going to have to deal with.
    Christ is going to return with a sword, kill off the majority of the population and institute a dull blown tyranny on this Earth at some unkown time. But until He does, a godly woman can be reminded of her rightful place by Scripture. If she joins the majority of Christian women today in rebellion, ask God to deal with her. Do it, stand back and watch what happens. Notice, no action from you other than a clear statement she is no longer under your spiritual protection. As her world begins to collapse tell her bluntly it will not stop until she comes back under your authority. Either God is really in our lives or He is not. Do you believe?

  182. institute a dull blown tyranny on this Earth

    Tyranny means an evil use of authority. By definition, His rule will not be tyranny because God is incapable of being evil.

  183. Hank Flanders says:

    @Il Deplorevolissimo

    Josh Duggar’s other infidelities and transgressions notwithstanding, to be fair, the porn actress dropped her lawsuit against Josh Duggar after he was able to prove that he hadn’t even been in the same city at the time in which she had alleged their encounter had occurred. I think in that particular case, that woman was hoping to cash in against someone who was already disliked, and it didn’t work out for her.

  184. Frank K says:

    and yet men today spend their schooldays cheek by-jowl with half their class members being of the female sex

    It depends on the class. To quote Barbie: Math is hard!

  185. BillyS says:

    RPL and Nick,

    I didn’t say I would want one, but they still look a lot more realistic, at least the basic photos, than I expected.

    Modern women are so repulsive as well, so that will play a role with many.

  186. BillyS says:

    JRdlT,

    Women can justify many things, regardless of what is written. Few of them really think things through. I do believe my exwife is a believer, she just has never really been taught the truth on marriage, and got more from FotF, Family Life Today and such as those. She also likely doesn’t know what love really is, even though she has read things like 1 Cor 13.

    She is certainly responsible for much of her own foolishness, but so is the many in modern churches. She was never really convicted of sin, even though she went forward to weep many weeks when we attended a church that preached you could easily lose your salvation much of the time. They never really taught about true deep repentance, probably because they had no clue about it themselves, since they thought all of us were continually falling away.

    My exwife texted my daughter-in-law that “God hates divorce” when she was the one who filed for it in our case. She blames me and can only focus on that when challenged with what God says, even though I never did anything that could even be twisted into justifying divorce, per the Scriptures. They played no role at the end, so challenging her with them was unfruitful.

    You should rethink your advice. It has merit, but requires Christians to really be taught well and few are today, even those who listen to preaching. Though even a harsh message won’t break through this, especially since that is not the entirety of what they need to learn. Men and women today need to really understand the seriousness of things and the proper paths. Those are not taught. Just telling people “you are going to hell!” is not going to change a thing.

  187. info says:

    @BillyS
    “My exwife texted my daughter-in-law that “God hates divorce” when she was the one who filed for it in our case. She blames me and can only focus on that when challenged with what God says, even though I never did anything that could even be twisted into justifying divorce, per the Scriptures. They played no role at the end, so challenging her with them was unfruitful. ”

    I don’t see any sign of God’s discipline nor conviction of sin by the holy spirit who guides into all truth. Nor true thirst for righteousness and delight in his law.

    She is not saved. Despite your hopes. Unrepentant sinners are never saved.

  188. info says:

    “She is certainly responsible for much of her own foolishness, but so is the many in modern churches. She was never really convicted of sin, even though she went forward to weep many weeks when we attended a church that preached you could easily lose your salvation much of the time. They never really taught about true deep repentance, probably because they had no clue about it themselves, since they thought all of us were continually falling away.”

    There it is. No reception of the holy spirit because she did not hear and believe the true Gospel. A believer in a false Jesus and a false gospel.

    “Women can justify many things, regardless of what is written. Few of them really think things through. I do believe my exwife is a believer, she just has never really been taught the truth on marriage, and got more from FotF, Family Life Today and such as those. She also likely doesn’t know what love really is, even though she has read things like 1 Cor 13.”

    Deceived believers are guided to truth by the holy spirit. The same way the Eunuch was guided by the holy spirit to truth by this way:
    https://bible.org/seriespage/13-ethiopian-eunuch-acts-826-40

    Since she remains deceived and have never been guided by the spirit to truth. She is not saved.

  189. Scott says:

    BillyS and I have very similar stories.

    And I agree, the path of shame using what the text clearly says is a no go in these situations.

    “You don’t get to keep me on a technicality” is what I was told.

    Other gems included “I understand what those Bible verses say. I just don’t think they mean I should have a life prison sentence.” (Whereas “life prison sentence” = “married to me”). Also “the right person for both of us is out there somewhere.”

    Not only doesn’t it work like that, in the vast majority of cases the entirety of the people around her are whispering “you don’t need this. He’s monster. He doesn’t buy flowers as much as he used to? That’s the same as beating you to a pulp nightly.”

    In my case, there was a small remnant of family and friends saying to her “you must go back. This isn’t right,” but it was to no avail.

  190. ron tomlinson says:

    Women want to be free to divorce, have abortions, etc. But when they do these things they put themselves in chains for the rest of their lives.Their hearts are hardened. They blame their husbands; they cause havoc in society; they drink too much wine. It’s an attempt to keep a lid on the guilt and stop their personalities from unravelling. Being nice to them and trying to treat them with consideration doesn’t seem to work. Though I’m sure true repentance must be possible I haven’t yet witnessed it personally. Anybody know an example of what it looks like?

    Here’s a spectacular example of the ‘havoc’ referred to above, which I came across recently, co-founded by a divorced woman:

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYThdLKE6TDwBJh-qDC6ICA

  191. feeriker says:

    @BillyS, Info, Scott

    It’s just symptomatic of the fact that what we WANT to think of as “the Church” is really nothing more than a collection of random customers of the same non-profit religious services corporation who are selecting, cafeteria-style, the sweets and soda pop off of the scriptural buffet table while avoiding the meat, milk, and vegetables that, while containing the essential nutrition for the soul, don’t taste very good. Thus the majority of one’s “fellow Christians” are spiritually chronically ill, malnourished, and morbidly obese to the point of immobility, which isolates the very few who consume the meat, milk, and vegetables and are thus in robust spirirual health. Such spiritually healthy people are no more surrounded by or have the support of “the Body of Christ” in their fellow churchgoers than the staff at a hospital have the”support” of the terminal chronically ill patients in their care.

  192. feeriker says:

    @BillyS, Info, Scott

    It’s just symptomatic of the fact that what we WANT to think of as “the Church” is really nothing more than a collection of random customers of the same non-profit religious services corporation who are selecting, cafeteria-style, the sweets and soda pop off of the scriptural buffet table while avoiding the meat, milk, and vegetables that, while containing the essential nutrition for the soul, don’t taste very good. Thus the majority of one’s “fellow Christians” are spiritually chronically ill, malnourished, and morbidly obese to the point of immobility, which isolates the very few who consume the meat, milk, and vegetables and are thus in robust spirirual health. Such spiritually healthy people are no more surrounded by or have the support of “the Body of Christ” in their fellow churchgoers than the staff at a hospital have the”support” of the terminal chronically ill patients in their care.

  193. info says:

    @feeriker
    Agreed.

  194. Liz says:

    It would make my decade to read that the West Point and Annapolis graduating classes of 2023 will consist entirely of women and trannies.

    “Our Country won’t go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won’t be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!”
    -Chesty Puller

    Something to look forward to!

  195. info says:

    @feeriker BillyS
    In Christ the man/woman is a new creature(2 Corinthians 5:17). There would be a struggle between the Godly nature and the sinful flesh alongside the indwelling of the holy spirit.

    He/she wants to do right and he/she will come to know true right from wrong. If he/she is not a new creature alongside the spirit. Then they are not saved in the least. Only the appearance of righteousness but not the substance.

  196. Dale U says:

    feeriker:
    … Such spiritually healthy people are no more surrounded by or have the support of “the Body of Christ” in their fellow churchgoers than the staff at a hospital have the”support” of the terminal chronically ill patients in their care.

    Very well put.

  197. purge187 says:

    . “I think in that particular case, that woman was hoping to cash in against someone who was already disliked, and it didn’t work out for her.”

    I highly doubt that all of the allegations against Harvey Weinstein have merit.

  198. timrean2444 says:

    The article completely ignores the use of women and chick porm like The Bachelor The Bachelorette Fifty Shades of Grey and Harlequin romance novels. It also completely ignores a wives food addiction that causes them to become a 250 lb whale. It completely ignores the scripture for wives to even submit to rebellious husbands to win them over through their example. Instead they get cash and prizes like my ex did. Everything was my fault and nothing was hers. Emotional abuse is a two-way street it’s just that women emotionally abuse men through subterfugethat is not so easily identified.

    I’ve read that emotional abuse consists of withholding of time, affection, or money to which I plead guilty to all of them. However the same was happening to me

  199. John James R. says:

    I read a list of Weinstein’s ‘crimes’ and nearly all the scenarios involved him asking, requesting, propositioning or even begging the women for sexual activity. As the scandal wore on, some no-names came out of nowhere and threw out rape claims but I don’t believe them. He did use his power in shaping their careers as part of the bargaining process. Meh. That’s life. That’s power. And it was a list of admitted whores. Overall, I just expected more from the better, stronger gender. They should have rejected him and made their own way. Write their own scripts. Establish their own movies. They’re that great, right? I mean the future is theirs, so I was confused as to why they whored themselves out like they did. They should have had more integrity and personal agency. They are stronger, smarter, better and superior in every way so I thought that they should at least be able to walk away from the pleading of a fat guy with his balls in his own hand. This is the same gender that regularly knocks out men that are 100 pounds heavier than them. This is the “perfect” (their words) gender. What happened?

  200. feeriker says:

    Liz said:

    “Our Country won’t go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won’t be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!”
    -Chesty Puller

    Something to look forward to!

    Even though the Marines are the least pozzed of the armed services, a General like Chesty Puller would be cashiered out of today’s Corps – at the insistence of the civiilians in charge and of Congress. They’re not interested in the armed services having actual leaders; quite the opposite, in fact (real leaders in the Chesty Puller mould aren’t easily manipulated or intimidated by scumbag politicians).

    I would imagine that if Chesty were alive today, he would urge the entire Corps to desert. He wouldn’t consider America worthy of defense by a quality fighting force, and he would be absolutely right.

  201. John James R. says:

    @Ron Tomlinson

    “It’s an attempt to keep a lid on the guilt” Wooah there! I gotta laugh a little at that, man. Sorry. You just projected your male accountability onto women and it’s a mistake on your part. There is no guilt inside them at all. It’s not there. The wine drinking is just wine drinking. It’s not masking some internal strife over what they’ve done. And it’s only getting worse. Guilt, self-effacement, shame, accountability, contrition….all have been removed from the female psyche. You might see some vestiges of those components in the over 45 set (though not fully developed), but under 45 and those things are gone. The wiring is not there to the extent that it’s not even worth blaming them for it. It’s like getting mad because your old Atari can’t handle a CD. It can’t happen. Every aspect of our culture; education, family, pop culture, legal, social media, religion, advertising has removed guilt from their brains on the neurophysical level. 100%. They do not process ‘guilt.’ When you and your whole gender is given the impression of blamelessness and this vague ‘grrll power’ magic wand from age 2 onwards, there is no development of guilt at all. Again, this is a neurophysical fact. Know that and tread carefully.

  202. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Something distasteful that I just discovered: https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/532198880936254437/

    Designer Christian fingernail art.

  203. I gotta laugh a little at that, man. Sorry. You just projected your male accountability onto women and it’s a mistake on your part. There is no guilt inside them at all.

    I have personally seen it what Ron is talking about in women in my own family. They are literally so active that it aggravates degenerative health conditions because sitting there in calmness, alone forces them to think about their lives and what a mess they are. Women aren’t animals, they have God’s law written in their hearts too so that they cannot claim “muh feelz” was all they knew. Just watch them, and you’ll see that you’re very wrong. Unless they’re sociopaths, you’ll see the tell-tale signs of anxiety and other disorders.

  204. Iowa Slim says:

    “The abuse began in 2002 when Elissa Pietrocarlo, known in the family as “The Prophet,” began claiming to receive messages from God, including a message that her father was being unfaithful to her mother, Christine, 66, whom the family called “Queen of God.”

    https://buffalonews.com/2019/05/03/3-sisters-found-guilty-of-abusing-their-father-for-years/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=puma&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3tDfu__9tVYc_BnYLTskgPoYy8LHeFA2e_CzPiuBmhn_tRJG-GaDkMIzI#Echobox=1556914856

  205. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    An upcoming romcom about a young woman who always makes bad choices in men. So she decides to ignore her instincts and date a man she hates — the worst, most awful, selfish, obnoxious man she knows.

    Naturally, they fall in love.

    Seems to be a variation on the “woman tames bad boy” theme.

  206. drifter says:

    Unless they’re sociopaths, you’ll see the tell-tale signs of anxiety and other disorders.

    Or having the TV on every waking moment.

  207. feeriker says:

    Iowa Slim says:
    May 27, 2019 at 1:19 pm

    Oh, MAN, I can’t imagine Hell on Earth being worse for a man than life in a house in which you’re drowning in bat shit-crazy estrogen. This guy is stronger than he imagines just by not having killed all four of them in self-defense. or committing suicide in desperation.

    Wanna bet the daughters get little or no jail time? This is almost guaranteed to be a “pussy pass” case.

    I can already hear de wimminz out there asking the inevitable, if utterly moronic “why didn’t he defend himself?!”

  208. feeriker says:

    An upcoming romcom about a young woman who always makes bad choices in men. So she decides to ignore her instincts and date a man she hates — the worst, most awful, selfish, obnoxious man she knows.

    Naturally, they fall in love.

    Seems to be a variation on the “woman tames bad boy” theme.

    This will probably make its way into some churchian sermon somewhere, complete with explicitl reference to the series itself as some kind of positive, linked to a pseudo-scriptural message.

  209. feministhater says:

    Thanks RPL, I just threw up in my mouth…

  210. Iowa Slim says:

    @ feeriker

    I was bothered by the OP situation (specifically the polygraph part), which made me remember this news story. This man was beaten up and forced to sleep in the kitchen or his car for years. Lived in a house dominated by religious agenda females (directed by the mother, no doubt–“Queen of God”) who think they have God on their side. Held in the moral low ground by accusations of real or imagined infidelity. The man’s youngest daughter would have been about five years old when the abuse started. By age 23, she’s helping her sisters choke and kick the stuffings out of their own father because mother caught him complaining about his situation (maybe asking for help) to a friend online.

    I wonder if Steve’s polygraph examiner ever asks “Do you feel safe at home?”

  211. John James R. says:

    @Il Deplorevissimo

    “…so that they cannot claim “muh feelz” was all they knew.”

    Wrong. Claim or no claim. It doesn’t matter. “Muh Feelz” is all they ARE.

    “Just watch them, and you’ll see that you’re very wrong.”

    Ha ha. I have been watching them. It’s you that needs to start watching. I’m amused by this new strain of white-knighting. Even white knights have to admit that women have become wretched. But Alas! M’uh Lady drinks wine because deep down inside she’s a wonderful soul. M’uh Lady feels bad about blowing up her family. M’uh Lady feels bad about killing that baby. M’uh Lady drinks wine to drown her sorrow over blowing up her children’s lives for 3 months of EPL. Oh M’uh Lady! You are forgiven! Your tears of shame and guilt are like nectar to my soul. M’uh Lady!

  212. feeriker says:

    Designer Christian fingernail art.

    It’s pretty much a cliché that a cross on a woman is a slut tell. This just broadcasts that tell via a new medium.

  213. locustsplease says:

    Women are horrified at being told to not berate husbands have sex with him and b moderately usefull. This is why the majority are just not wife material to any man. Cause and effect missing.

  214. feeriker says:

    This is why the majority are just not wife material to any man.

    Not relationship material of ANY kind, actually.

    I didn’t read the linked article beyond the headline, but I’m sure that the recoiling in horror that it focuses on emanates from non-Christian women. Thing is, their reaction is no different at all from that of self-described Christian women.

    What I really would like to see is a(n attempted) refutation by self-described “Christian pastors” of the scriptural passages, most of which are probably very clear and obvious, used to justify the 30 points under contention.

  215. Mountain Man says:

    Regarding the 30 ways article, does anyone know where to get the list with the scripture references? All I’m seeing are the news stories which list the points, but not the supporting scriptural references. Looks like it came from within a private facebook group. I’m not on Facebook, but would love to find a copy of the full list somewhere.

  216. BillyS says:

    He/she wants to do right and he/she will come to know true right from wrong. If he/she is not a new creature alongside the spirit. Then they are not saved in the least. Only the appearance of righteousness but not the substance.

    The problem with this line of thought is that men get to decide what are the core requirements for belief and anyone who doesn’t believe with that is not “saved”.

    I do believe the inside should work out, but it often works differently in a wide range of people and we will never be in complete unity until He returns and rules. It is also a question of what has changed. I think info did correctly note it was the inner man, not the outside, but realizing that inner man can be transformed and still enslaved to a soul that is not focused the right way puts a much better perspective on things.

    I wish it all perfectly flowed out, but I know my own life doesn’t work that way all the time, so how can I just decide it must work perfectly in the life of someone else? None of us would have “besetting sins” if things always worked out as they should.

    Christians should not participate in the divorce culture nor should they encourage it. Many do unfortunately. They need to realize they are living below where they should, but I cannot just say they are condemned to hell.

    I do know some will be, per Jesus story about telling people in the future “I never knew you” but I will let Him figure that out.

    This is outside the scope here, so sorry for rambling so much everyone!

  217. ron tomlinson says:

    @Il Deplorevolissimo,

    >Women aren’t animals, they have God’s law written in their hearts too so that they cannot claim “muh feelz”

    Yes, I think that’s correct. The way I tentatively see things, it’s important to distinguish between feelings of guilt and guilt itself. True guilt is the mental chaos, disorder and lack of logos which is brought about via sin. Such structural inconsistency is present in every mind, male and female, to varying extent.

    The *feeling* of guilt, on the other hand, is an experience arising from an internal awareness of that guilt and is the first step toward repentance. Now most people say that women have feelings but it would be more accurate to say that feelings *have them*. It’s actually men that have feelings. Men can tolerate a certain amount of fear or anger without acting on it, usually because they’re trying to get a job done.

    Above a certain threshold, however, there are only two alternatives. One is repentance and the acceptance of divine forgiveness. The other is avoidance by the use of tranquilisers or distractions. The most advanced distraction method seems to be *projection*. By unwittingly creating chaos in the external world the mind is able to falsely attribute its desperate internal state to the actions of third parties.

  218. info says:

    @BillyS
    I agree we will know everything at the end. However I did not find one instance of any saint in scripture that was a unrepentant sinner. Nor free from the Lords discipline. When david sinned by committing adultery with bathsheba and murdering Uriah. God disciplined him severely.

    How can any saved person have no problem with sin? It doesnt happen.

    All of us was deceived by satan. Even yourself until you were saved and led by the holy spirit to truth. Hence why you ended up here. Is it coincidence that the deceived eunuch surrounded by lies somehow was led to salvation.

    Myself included god led me away from the programmed leftist beliefs that I was swimming in all my life into the truth.

  219. info says:

    @BillyS
    If the inside of the cup is cleaned the outside shall the cleaned also likewise if a man is a new creature it shall manifest also.(Matthew 23:26)

  220. TheTraveler says:

    @Tim

    The commandment is, “Thou shalt not bear false witness.”

    In other words, don’t tell lies that will hurt the innocent. That hardly applies in time of war, or against a monumental evil like a totalitarian police state–which, incidentally, the Almighty (for reasons known only to Him) has been permitting for quite some time now, along with causing the good guys to lose, often at the finish line, due to treachery and inexplicable reverses.

    I don’t believe it’s “His will”; I believe he just permits it. And we are not obligated to subjugate ourselves to evil. The logical end is that we should just surrender to our enemies without a any resistance, and subjugate ourselves to their wickedness so as not to soil our faithful selves with even a the possibility of sinful behavior.

    Then again, the parables of the talents clearly indicate that action is always better than inaction. Or is surrender, leading to the destruction of Divine mandates, a good thing?

  221. BillyS says:

    Info,

    You aren’t reading enough of the Scriptures if you think all “saints” did things perfectly. David still botched raising his family significantly, yet he was still touted as a “man after God’s own heart.” That is just one example. Lot is called righteous when much of what we read about him certainly doesn’t seem that way.

    Many disagree that the Gifts of the Spirit are for today. Are all who disagree with what is clearly written going to hell? Some major “leaders in the faith” of past generations were glad to put those they disagreed with to death. Clearly things are not as simple as some think.

  222. info says:

    @BillyS
    Exactly David was not perfect yet god disciplined him. Has your ex-wife ever been disciplined by God. Was David unrepentant in sin?

    Do you think your exwife will repent if Nathan the Prophet told her she did wrong?

    Its nothing to do with perfection but being repentant when one fails.

  223. info says:

    @BillyS
    As for the latter I believe there can be disagreement about gifts of the spirit. But Gods law is nonnegotiable.

    What is sin is non-negotiable. A person cannot be a new creature yet believe homosexuality is fine and dancy.

  224. info says:

    @BillyS
    For the rest of his life.

  225. info says:

    I am objecting to the notion that being a new creature somehow doesnt manifest outside in being made aware of sin. Despite the lies of people around them.

    That if lets say a samesex attracted person would be unrepentant of his homosexuality because of outside deception and lies which surround him all of whom affirms the sin. Despite Gods word. Same with your exwife.

    Or that god will not arrange things in such a way that the man in question would find out the truth and discover homosexuality is sin.

  226. timrean2444 says:

    @feeriker: Good stuff

    @The Traveler. I’m not sure your response was meant for me if it was I don’t quite understand it

  227. thedeti says:

    In other words, don’t tell lies that will hurt the innocent.

    The commandment from the KJV is “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. It bars giving false testimony or false statements under oath, so to speak.

    The Mosaic Law in Leviticus and given again in Deuteronomy talks about individuals bearing witness or testifying, as they would to a priest or court. In other words, when it’s really important, or when you’ve been put under oath and are standing before God, your priest, and your peers, you must tell the truth. Otherwise, the commandment doesn’t apply.

  228. thedeti says:

    That got loosely translated as “Thou shalt not lie.” But that’s not the commandment. The commandment is “do not lie under oath, do not give false testimony.”

    It’s like “Thou shalt not commit murder.” That got loosely translated as “Thou shalt not kill.” But that is not the commandment. The commandment is “do not intentionally take innocent lives, do not kill another human being out of premeditation or malice or passion.” IF the commandment is “Thou shalt not kill”, this means Christians cannot join the military. They cannot kill other human beings in war, or in self defense, or in defense of others. And that is not the commandment, it is not the law, and it is not how life works.

    A Christian is not required to go into the military and allow enemy combatants to kill him. A Christian is not required to submit to an attacker. He is not required to refuse to defend himself and allow his attacker to kill him. A Christian is not required to refuse to kill someone who is killing or threatening to kill others. He is not required to refuse to defend others. You can defend yourself to the point of killing your attacker in self defense. You can defend others to the point of killing an attacker in the defense of others.

  229. BillyS says:

    Info,

    The inner should transform the outer, but it is clearly hard enough to accomplish that the Scriptures talk repeatedly about the need to make that happen and how to do it. That would be unnecessary if it was automatic.

    Claiming the Gifts of the Spirit are all expired is pretty evil if not true, or evil to claim otherwise if they are gone. The inner man should know that truth and should conform people if it was automatic.

    My wife has almost certainly never been confronted by someone like Nathan the Prophet, nor were most people, even in David’s time. Direct confrontation is rare in the lives of most people.

    A serious part of the problem is that very very few confront the sin of divorce today and those that do generally blame the man. Thus a woman can live her entire life with a false message. That is a fault of those claiming to teach Christian truth.

    I do believe women should know better, but the messaging is all against it. The incentives and messaging are so wrong women can get away with things and feel they are still doing properly. God does not force perfection on us in the sense of making it impossible to do otherwise if we follow Him.

    Though see Scott’s reply as well. He made some good points.

    You can “win this argument” if you want though. I will try to stop replying!

  230. info says:

    @BillyS
    By all means reply. I am not trying to win an argument.

    Its just that what you stated on women can apply to every other sin and every type of sinner. Is not God sovereign over all that exists? Does he not work for the good of those who love him?

    Is god too weak to overcome deception and all encompassing lies and falsehood making a false reality?

    Is god lying when he said the spirit guides into all truth?

  231. info says:

    God works all things for the good of those who love him(Romans 8:28)

  232. info says:

    Again I am not talking about perfection but about knowing God’s law. He promised in the prophets about the day he wrote the law in men’s hearts and minds(Hebrews 10:16)

  233. TheTraveler says:

    @timrean

    Response to @TimFinnegan, well up nearer the top of the comments.

    Sorry about any confusion.

  234. EmpireHasNoClothes says:

    They need a shirt for cucks that says “Jesus is my wife’s boyfriend.”

  235. DeepThought says:

    Women teaching/preaching about any Holy book is a sin. Period.

    These women “Pastors/ministers” are an abomination. Anyone who says different needs their head examined.

  236. DeepThought says:

    Steve Peters, who plays the role of the wife in this relationship, is being led by his husband.
    This couple is in rebellion against God.

  237. @Traveler and Deti

    Lev 19:11 “you shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie to one another.”

    Prov 12:22 “lying lips are an abomination to the LORD”

    Zeph 3:13 “those who are left in Israel shall do no wrong and utter no lies”

    Col 3:9 “do not lie to one another”

    John 8:44 “You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do his desires…when he lies he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”

    Sure, that might be what the commandment explicitly condemns, but it is apparent that the old law, which is entirely contained in the Decalogue, forbids more than just what is explicitly stated. So just as the second commandment explicitly forbids perjury, it also forbids blasphemy (Leviticus 24:15) and spreading false doctrine (Deuteronomy 13). The reason for this is that the Decalogue contains explicitly what is readily apparent to all men from natural reason, but it also acts as principles from which wise men (like Paul, Augustine and Thomas Aquinas) can teach us further precepts of the moral law. So the 8th commandment forbids false testimony, but it also forbids false judgement (exodus 23:2), detraction (Leviticus 19:16), and lying (exodus 23:7). The prohibition against lying is also backed up by the above Scriptures and others.

  238. Red Pill Christianity says:

    I have been extremely busy these past few days. Then I stop to have a quiet, solo dinner tonight and I decided to check your site. Lo and behold, I see the horror show that our “Christian culture” continues to deteriorate (and continues to do so). :-/ I sometimes wonder if we have hit rock bottom in the Western societies, only to see Oscar posting that personal ad (looks like some sort of Tinder-type dating app) of that “creature”, which I rate as a 4.5 at most, demanding a dude to “make all her dreams come true”.

    Here in Ukraine, she could not manage to land an unemployed crack addict, I kid you not. Just looking at that personal ad makes me want to stay here for good, no matter how poor this country is (and believe me, it is poor and the voters, tired after almost a decade of continual recession, elected an actual circus clown as President, I kid you not). That is what happens when voters become desperate and/decide to give up and just go the big laughs.

    I got a text from a friend back home about whether or not he should come out to visit Ukraine. I said “unless you are gonna roll the dice and import a woman or stay here, do NOT come.” Why? Because you will feel robbed. I remember the first time I landed in Kiev and went to SkyBar later that evening (per suggestion of one of the bellhops), I could not believe what I saw, not only in terms of femininity, but also that even the hookers, which I consider the lowest and most disgusting females of a society, are much and I mean much better to their male customers than say a “looking for an LTR” type in a typical American shitropolis, say NYC or Shitcago. Honestly, being here has really hurt my social life back in the States. The women in our country have degraded themselves into ugliness, lack of sensuality, lack of class/decorum, and a complete misunderstanding of what “sex appeal” to a man really is. When I go back home (and believe me, I need to get back soon), I feel depressed for the first few days back. The moment I walk into a local grocery store, I feel elated at the beauty and wonder of American free market economics and prosperity and at the same time, I feel depressed seeing girls who would be flawless beauties, save for that disgusting pig-like nosering and a tattoo on her calf. Or a girl that could be a 7 with proper make-up and putting aside her ripped jeans and flip-flop combo… and yet, she is a 4, because she allows herself to look like hell.

    When I see this loser husband who is used as a website prop due to his “porn addiction”, and the loser-like haircut, beta face of a cuck, I honestly feel bad for him. I feel bad because under American “Family Laws”, he IS indeed a prisoner of a legal system and a feminized church mindset that works silently against him day by day. This man truly is a hostage in a terroristic video; he is a prisoner of a society that hates him and a culture that loathes even his most basic human instincts. It is very depressing.

    This wife threaten her husband with expelling him from thir “supposedly” joint residence for 90-days. SAY WHAT???

    Where does she draw such authority from? Even if she has sole Deed to the home, being married and getting mail there makes it their shared residence.
    Where is that, Biblically-speaking, that a woman can simply order her husband out of their shared legal residence on a whim?!?! To compare a spouse jacking it to a little video online to a son who has engaged his stepmother publically is absurd and insane.

    Legally-speaking is a different matter. She draws her power from the church which will back her up for “getting tough” on her loser husband’s “addiction”. And on police power, which she can have this cuck removed from their joint residence with a simple call, which will not only get him out of the house, it will trigger an automatic Restraining Order by a court the next day after he gets released from county jail. The if she feels like it, she can divorce him, get unlimited sympathy from their local church, and make it out like a bandit, cash-wise. Marriage for a woman is a win-win, whether the man “sins” or not. She has the police, the churches, and the courts on her side.

    Once again, you are all making the case for MGTOW (which I am not a proponent of) and staying single and “dating”/in sin. All because the guy wanted to follow the script handed to him by a society that caters to a woman’s needs at his expense. Because he seeks approval of other local churchians. Because he is not a masculine man the way God intended him to be.

    Do not get me wrong, friends. Addition is real. I have a friend who became addicted to steroids… not physically, but mentally/psychologically. He wanted to keep growing stronger and stronger and he has not stopped since he was 15 and he is like 34 now. He can stop it anytime he wanted, but he wants to get bigger and stronger every month…. Addiction is real, be it physical or mental. Addition to anything controls you, be it video games, booze, porn, cars, drugs, food, or whatever.

    Whatever controls you is ultimately your god, so the controlling power of addiction is serious.

    My beef with this whole “porn addiction” thing is that most guys watch porn because they are colossal Beta cucks. They are weak and powerless in their relationship, so they want to see a guy take charge, grab a woman, and make her do whatever he says in bed. That is power, that is patriarchal, that is natural. That is why many guys watch porn. The need is not sexual, it is the mental and psychological need of a man to be a man, a masculine being with his own set of needs, desires, and strengths. These male traits have been slandered as “toxic masculinity” and are usually criminal and illegal in Western societies.

    Back to porn…. The issue here is not whether the wife/hostage taker is satisfying her cuck husband/hostage sexually or not. The issue is that he allows himself to be cucked and Beta-field by his woman to a point he feels weak, powerless, and defeated. Deep inside, he is angry; he is angr because he knows his life is wrong, he is in an inner-Hell partially imposed on him and partially of his own making.

    Watching porn allows the beta cuck husband to project himself into the masculine guy in the video, ordering his woman around, using her for his own desires, dominating her, and having power and control. These are basic male desires ad traits that this beta cuck does not have, because his wife wears the pants and he allows himself to be controlled by a society and a fake Christian culture that seeks to de-ball and domesticate him.

    So many Western men are total herbivores. They are so domesticated, it is shocking to see. When I see the Russian and Ukrainian dudes act around their ultra-feminine and sexy women and when I see these their kids playing with guns in military outfits, I always wonder “when are the Russians and Chinese realize we have a generation of fanboy herbivores in The West today, playing with dolls and being poisoned with Ritalin at schools, I wonder…. when the hell are they gonna figure this out and just march in and take over”.

    Just some thoughts…. how depressing it is to think I need to get back home soon and then go back to gaming sub-par local girls. At least I will get my website up and running again…..

  239. Red Pill Christianity says:

    TheDeti is correct, Look up the Greek and Hebrew original texts and you will see mistranslations all over the place. “Thou shall not kill” is 100% incorrect. It is “thou shall not murder”, is the correct original text.

    As TheDeti states, self-defense is clearly permitted in Judeo-Christian tradition. God ordered the Israelites to premtively wipe out (kill) all enemy nations around them after they re-took The Promissed Land, and because the Israelites failed to carry out God’s orders to kill all tribes around them so, they suffered for 3,000 years due to their disobedience. God would not have ordered them to annihilate Israel’s foes during Joshua’s leadership if it violated His owns Laws. Clearly, a self-defensive act is permittable.

    Before I forget….

    I wanted to share one things Dutch traveler I met at the airport showed me. Did you guys see that a Chinese programmer in Germany created software that scans the faces and creates a facial recognition database of all women in any and all porn videos online and allows guys to search the database against their girlfriend’s pictures? LOL That includes women that submit homemade videos online too. And all the pros and semi-pros… and hopefully all the “Instagram models” videos too. This guy is doing God’s work. Full disclosure and full knowledge of who a woman really is, is the only way men can make informed decisions.

    The feminists and even normal women were outraged at this guy’s program! Typical misandrist commentary was rampant, from feminists, women in general, and White Knight betas. How dare men inquire about their past behaviors?!?! Men are insecure, so they need to know of a woman’s past sexual history.. blah blah….

    Gotta laugh.

  240. TheTraveler says:

    @TimFinnegan

    Ya know, there’s only ten commandments. Very simple. Very easy to understand.

    Theologians of all the Bible based religions get involved, and fill large volumes with learned language, adding all kinds of interpretations, convolutions, and personal hobbyhorses. Sorry–nyet.

    When God speaks directly to humans, it is simple and straightforward. He is neither subtle nor coy — He intends to be understood, clearly. The ten commandments mean what they say, nothing more and nothing less. All the learned theology on the world won’t change that.

    Old joke:
    A noted theological scholar dies and goes to Heaven. God says to him, “For my pleasure, let me hear you expound on a point of My law.” Rattled and nervous at being in the Presence (hey, it’s a joke) the scholar’s mind goes blank. Says he to the Almighty: “I’m at a loss at the moment, O Lord. But if you give me a point of your law, I’ll show you how to refute it!”

  241. Dota says:

    God would not have ordered them to annihilate Israel’s foes during Joshua’s leadership if it violated His owns Laws. Clearly, a self-defensive act is permittable.

    I’ve often been curious about this. How do you know that God issued the order as a pre-emptive strike? There’s no evidence in the text to suggest that. My own understanding is that the 10 commandments apply to personal ethics and not to tribal/collectivist ethics. I base this understanding on the behavior of the jews today.

  242. Dota says:

    Last message @ Red Pill Christianity

  243. Luke says:

    TheTraveler says:
    May 30, 2019 at 6:38 am
    @TimFinnegan

    “Ya know, there’s only ten commandments. Very simple. Very easy to understand.

    Theologians of all the Bible based religions get involved, and fill large volumes with learned language, adding all kinds of interpretations, convolutions, and personal hobbyhorses. Sorry–nyet.”

    Sorry, you’re in error here. There are only ten “Ten Commandments”. There are PLENTY of other commandments elsewhere to Man in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation.

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