The joke’s on him.

Yesterday my wife had an ad pop up on her phone selling women divorce.  I wasn’t able to find the online version of the ad, but with some digging found a picture of the same ad on a billboard here in the DFW area:

A key aspect of our disrespect for respectable men is our denial of the fact.  If we admitted we have contempt for men who marry and work to support a family, fewer men would do so.  After all, divorce theft isn’t an option if the sucker won’t agree to the bargain in the first place.  So it is essential for conservatives especially to pretend that the business of the billboard isn’t really going on.

Our careful denial of the true nature of our new family model leads to interesting results.  You can boldly sell divorce right out in the open like this, and your target audience (married women) will get the message while everyone else either ignores it or fails to grasp what they are seeing.

While searching for the ad I first found a discussion of another incarnation of the same billboard.  This version was in Chicago, and only included the text.  When a user posted a picture of the billboard for comments, a man in the discussion couldn’t understand the message.  Divorce theft is something you fear, not something you look forward to:

I am a little confused. “Double your closet space” means more room in your closet, so that means your wife will take half of your belongings/things you kept in the closet. Which is no good. On the other hand, if you mean that taking a divorce=wife will go away and take her stuff out of the closet so you have more room, still doesn’t work because the point of hiring an attorney is to keep as many of the possessions as you can, not simply get rid of the wife.
For me the line doesn’t work (unless I didn’t get it), but the idea to say something clever on the billboard, and keep it nice and simple works great.

Another commenter explained that the message on the billboard worked quite well if you thought of it from the perspective of women.  Notice that even while explaining the joke he pretends this isn’t what is going on:

This ad really isn’t gender specific, but if you’re having trouble imagining this from the perspective of a man, try imagining it from the perspective of a woman. Your husband moves all his crap out, you get more room for shoes and whatnot. And the point of hiring an attorney IS to get rid of the wife/husband, and while you may want to keep as many possessions as possible, you don’t want your wife’s shoes. This ad says you get the HOUSE, which is more important than any clothing. It also implies confidence that you’ll win your case, and it does it in four words :]

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This entry was posted in Commercials, Denial, Disrespecting Respectability, Divorce, Doublethink, Marriage, selling divorce, Turning a blind eye, You can't make this stuff up. Bookmark the permalink.

93 Responses to The joke’s on him.

  1. mgtowhorseman says:

    But as Dalrock keeps saying, this is exactly the reason young men are not motivated.
    Imagine a 25 year old who is thinking school, trades is too hard and is thinking of dropping out.
    What is his incentive looking at this commercial.

    A joke in my house is I am not a morning person. I bitch each morning to the Mrs of 30+ years.
    I leave with “well you’re the reason I get up and go do this.” And she says “and I love you for it.”
    Then later I come home to a clean house and a meal ready.

    But both my kids, now 20s and gone work and live for themselves. I was married and had them at their age. Both have “relationships” and jobs but a true LTR and career? Not so much.

  2. Christopher Conrad Nystrom says:

    Malachi 2:16 and Luke 16:18.

  3. Anon says:

    On one hand, this is pretty sick.

    On the other hand, as I have often said, men who enter into new situations after 12/31/2015 that lead to their own destruction, no longer deserve sympathy. They had many years in which to become aware. If anything, if the typical cuckservative gets ensnared in this, he deserves it for contributing to this state of affairs.

  4. mgtowhorseman says:

    And the impacts are being felt. Read between the lines of this story on the boomers.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-why-is-retiring-later-a-good-idea-because-65-is-the-new-55/

    “Among the proposed changes:
    Shifting the target retirement age for CPP and Old Age Security from 65 to 67, with a commensurate 14.4-per-cent boost in the monthly pension….
    The proposals will not save the government money, nor will they reduce private-pension costs. Nor is this about forcing golden-agers to keep their noses to the grindstone. Instead, it’s about offering incentives to older Canadians who are willing, able and eager to remain in the work force.”

    Why if there is the usual generational turnover?

    “But a lot of Canadians at that stage in life are highly experienced people who still want to work. Retiring is a double loss, for them and for the economy.”

    Ahh. Skills or the ability to tolerate hard work. Just last week a report that 1 in 5 hydro workers will turn over in 3 years but the apprentice pipeline is empty. Work in snow with electricity? Isnt there an app for that?

    Or just plain work at all

    “if the work-force participation rate of Canadians aged 55 to 69 were to rise from 54 per cent to 62 per cent – the level in Sweden, Norway, the United States and Japan – Canada’s gross domestic product would get a permanent 2.8-per-cent boost. That’s an extra $60-billion a year in economic activity.”

    So you are looking for an 8% rise in labour participation?
    Hmm lets see. I am 25 the son of late life parents. My folks are 65 now. I live with them rent free.
    In 5 years they will be moving to Long term Care and I will take over the house thats paid for.
    Ten more years and I will be part of the largest inheritence group in history. Basically set for life at 40. Oh and no woman wants a basement troll like me even though I spend 2 hours a day at the gym for fun. And as a single man my consumption is minimal.

    Explain again why I want a career or a hazardous job or physical labour?

    Beuller? Anyone? Beuller?

    Hey Im just doing as the ad said.

  5. Anon says:

    I would love to see a snake oil merchant like H. Bradford Wilcucks be forced to answer about this when asked point blank in front of an audience. His entire scam is dependent on deliberately hiding the fact that this goes on at all.

  6. Dalrock says:

    @Anon

    I would love to see a snake oil merchant like H. Bradford Wilcucks be forced to answer about this when asked point blank in front of an audience. His entire scam is dependent on deliberately hiding the fact that this goes on at all.

    When they challenge him, they could quote this academic who explained what is going on:

    …the ill effects of divorce for adults tend to fall disproportionately on the shoulders of fathers. Since approximately two-thirds of divorces are legally initiated by women, men are more likely than women to be divorced against their will. In many cases, these men have not engaged in egregious marital misconduct such as abuse, adultery, or substance abuse. They feel mistreated by their ex-wives and by state courts that no longer take into account marital “fault” when making determinations about child custody, child support, and the division of marital property. Yet in the wake of a divorce, these men will nevertheless often lose their homes, a substantial share of their monthly incomes, and regular contact with their children. For these men, and for women caught in similar circumstances, the sting of an unjust divorce can lead to downward emotional spirals, difficulties at work, and serious deteriorations in the quality of their relationships with their children….

    Wilcox is pretty sharp, so I’m guessing he would realize they were quoting him from ten years ago. Now he ignores reality and mocks men who fear the very thing he was describing.

    Marriage is not worth it. It’s not worth the financial sacrifices, the lost sexual opportunities, and the lack of freedom. All in all, it’s a ball and chain — of little benefit to any man interested in pursuing happiness and well-being. This is the view that we’ve encountered from many young men of late.

    Six-pack Craig is right about one thing: There is no doubt that marriage requires sacrifices, and lots of them. Successful marriages require men to work harder, avoid cheating, spend less time with friends, and make a good-faith effort, day in and day out, to be emotionally present with their spouses. Many men find these sacrifices hard.

  7. mgtowhorseman says:

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-canadian-electricity-sector-faces-looming-labour-shortage-with-2000/

    20,000 workers, say 10,000 plus power plant or lineman workers. In 3 years!!
    And a junior lineman is 50k before overtime.

    We will see this in all infrastructure. Unable to repair let alone build new or expand.
    Some very bad impacts are baked in.
    We are out of time to get young men into the training stream even if crap like this ad vanished today
    In about five to ten years when something major happens because of a society impacting man shortage hits we are going to have a collective “oh crap” moment.

    But it will be too late. The entire under 25 generation of men are indoctronated. It will take minimum a replacement generation to fix.

    All because short sighted women wanted more closet space.

  8. mgtowhorseman says:

    “There is no doubt that marriage requires sacrifices, and lots of them. Successful marriages require men to work harder, avoid cheating, spend less time with friends, and make a good-faith effort, day in and day out, to be emotionally present with their spouses. Many men find these sacrifices hard.”

    And you want them to do it…..why?

    Because doesn’t work at the indivdual level.
    Explain to the 25 year old looking to inherit a free house and money ten years out.
    Why should I do this?

    Beuller? Where the hell is Beuller?

  9. feministhater says:

    Explain again why I want a career or a hazardous job or physical labour?

    Pick up a couple handy man courses, learn a specialist hobby like wood crafting or metal working on a lathe and you can pick up side jobs to keep your income flowing. The world is your oyster once you don’t have to support a family. Keep your customers paying cash and you’re golden.

    The joke is now on them. Marriage is a sham and adverts like this prove it.

  10. Otto says:

    @ mgtowhorseman,

    It’s not about a skills shortage. They want seniors to continue to work, because the social security system can’t support the baby boomer retirees. Even if you start drawing SS at 65, if you are still working, you are also still contributing to SS via payroll taxes, which will help keep the system afloat.

    Of course, the root problem is the subsequent generations didn’t have enough kids to support the previous generations.

  11. mgtowhorseman says:

    In high school Mrs said all she ever wanted was a family, a home, and kids. No intentions of a career. I went to college like an 80s boy should. Met her again just after graduating. She was just waiting to find a man to grow with.

    So in 6 days we got engaged. I
    I wasn”t established, or studly or moneyed. All I had was a degree, a mind, a willingness to work. Hell I took the bus because I couldn’t afford to fix my car. AllI had was potential. Same as her.

    So we faught together, grew together, earned together, raised a family together.

    So now in the home stretch with money in the bank and a home paid for we drink coffee on the couch in the morning, together and patiently wait out the last five years to retirement. Together.

    The only reason I am a functioning member of society and not a self sufficient mgtow monk surrounded by my books and horses?

    Because we share a closet….TOGETHER.

  12. Anonymous Reader says:

    Otto
    Of course, the root problem is the subsequent generations didn’t have enough kids to support the previous generations.

    Rabbit trial…
    The root problem is the US Social Security system has never been fiscally sound. It’s a giant intergenerational chain letter / Ponzi scheme.

    Back to the OP, I wonder how many men were required to put that sign up?
    Were they married at the time?

  13. mgtowhorseman says:

    Feministhater

    Exactly what I did. After 30 years as a six figure administrator of a health care facility I was downsized and am now a “handyman” and farm hand. I make as much hanging flatscreens and feeding ponies as I did in my “career”. And I pick my clients.

    Again I have skills. Where are the 25 year olds?

    Otto. Completely agree. But at the same time the distribution of where those few workers are going is wildly scewed to either desk jobs or unskilled. At a macro level, lack of taxpaying bodies. At the next level down, lack of critical skills. At the ground level ” where have the good men aka provider chumps gone?”

  14. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Here in Los Angeles, most of the blue collar work is done by Latinos. I’m guessing second or third generation. They usually have no accents, and are quite competent. I’ve had work done by Latino auto mechanics and plumbers. I’ve seen them building roads and doing construction.

  15. Lost Patrol says:

    Wilcox is pretty sharp, so I’m guessing he would realize they were quoting him from ten years ago.

    Sweet.

    Saw a TV commercial but can’t find a clip. Cox Cable. Mom drops off boy at obviously Dad’s new (nearly empty) digs, and they play video games. She later picks him up and he praises Dad’s new internet speed. Mom says something like ‘yeah, but he doesn’t have cookies, does he?’ (hands boy plastic container full of cookies and they drive off together). It’s all standard issue now.

    I was at church where an Elder and his wife were offering a marriage seminar. I don’t remember exactly what was said but this is what I heard – ‘marriage is really, really hard, so come to the marriage seminar’.

    I wondered what the single young adults in the pews were thinking.

  16. Anon says:

    Dalrock,

    Wilcox is pretty sharp, so I’m guessing he would realize they were quoting him from ten years ago.

    I wouldn’t say he is sharp. The main reason he would recognize his prior writings (which he hopes no one will call him on) is that his sinecure requires him to write only one article per year, that too around the same theme as last year’s article.

    His professional output is remarkably scant. One could have a sinecure like his and still work in a second job.

    For example, his output over the last 12 months was an article hectoring The Rock to get married to the woman he has most recently reproduced with (nevermind that The Rock got divorced once before and probably learned what happens to men there).

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/04/05/dwayne-rock-johnson-lauren-hashian-baby-marriage-cohabitation-column/478802002/

    It is obvious to me that the Divorce Lawyer industry has simply bought off Brad Wilcucks (that too for what is probably a very, very low price).

  17. mgtowhorseman says:

    You can boldly sell divorce right out in the open like this, and your target audience (married women) will get the message while everyone else either ignores it or fails to grasp what they are seeing.

    No the social commentators are not seeing it.
    The men absolutely are but don’t care enough to say anything, they just react by their choices hence all the fallout affects we are seeing.

    If men failed to grasp it they would be manning up, working, marrying, plowhorsing. They are not.

  18. mgtowhorseman says:

    Here in rural Ontario, hell even Toronto, our underclass are not as skilled. Humping packages or pulling crops, yes but skilled tradesmen, nope. Our funnel is impoverished country to u.s. to canada.
    All the ones who can make a go of it stay there. We get the truly useless.

    I have a waiting list of clients wanting me to pull down christmas lights, service the lawn tractor, bring out the patio furniture. My “spring special” that a hubby could do in a day, involving no significant repairs is $500 flat fee up to 8 hours. And I am turning down work.

    And most have a guy of some kind around. They are just lazy or incompetent.

    Only maybe 20% are single women. I have been weeding those out. Now I wont even take on a job for a female unless they are personally vouched for by an existing client or friend. “Sorry mame, I don’t know you and you don’t know me, its for your security.”

  19. Otto says:

    @Christopher Conrad Nystrom,

    Have you noticed the spin some of the newer translations put on MAL 2:16? First a good translation:

    For I hate divorce,” says the Lord, the God of Israel, “and him who covers his garment with wrong,” says the Lord of hosts. “So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.” NASB

    This a literal word-for-word translation of the Hebrew text (https://www.blueletterbible.org/nasb/mal/2/16/ss1/s_927016).

    Compare that to several recent translations:

    The man who hates and divorces his wife,” says the LORD, the God of Israel, “does violence to the one he should protect,” says the LORD Almighty. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful. NIV

    For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her, says the LORD, the God of Israel, covers his garment with violence, says the LORD of hosts. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and do not be faithless.” ESV

    If he hates and divorces his wife,” says the LORD God of Israel, “he covers his garment with injustice,” says the LORD of Armies. Therefore, watch yourselves carefully, and do not act treacherously. CSB (translation by LifeWay/Holman–affiliated with Southern Baptist Convention)

    These are not accurate translations. Every English translation (until recently) has translated this as “I hate divorce” or “I hate putting away” (the literal Hebrew phrase meaning divorce). If you follow the link above and look at the underlying Hebrew, it’s obvious that “I hate divorce/putting-away” is the only legitimate translation for this phrase (which is why it has been the standard translation until only a few years ago). These new variants are simply made up.

    I hate divorce
    vs
    The man who hates and divorces his wife
    For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her
    If he hates and divorces his wife

    These don’t even come close to conveying the same message.

  20. mgtowhorseman says:

    Sure she gets the house and the closet space but who does the maintenance?
    Not repairs. The basic preventative maintenance. A landscaping company for lawns, gardens, snowplowing. But the hanging tvs, pictures, fixing the off balance dryer, putting up lights?

    It doesn’t exist, not nearly enough for the demand.

    She got the closet but who assembles the ikea closet organizer?

  21. mgtowhorseman says:

    Guys get a tool chest, a truck, and a body cam (I always wear mine).
    $50-200 an hour easy. Its a captive market.

    And when they start the “I don’t like it that way”… Pick up your tools and walk away mid job.
    Done it more times than I can count.

  22. feeriker says:

    I was at church where an Elder and his wife were offering a marriage seminar. I don’t remember exactly what was said but this is what I heard – ‘marriage is really, really hard, so come to the marriage seminar’.

    I wondered what the single young adults in the pews were thinking.

    I’m betting that, whatever they were thinking, they all probably know more people, even within the church, who’ve been divorced at least once than who’ve stayed married for life.

  23. Damn Crackers says:

    That’s awful. But if you must get divorced, hire this woman:

  24. Dalrock says:

    @mgtowhorseman

    No the social commentators are not seeing it.
    The men absolutely are but don’t care enough to say anything, they just react by their choices hence all the fallout affects we are seeing.

    If men failed to grasp it they would be manning up, working, marrying, plowhorsing. They are not.

    This has been the biggest surprise of my decade of blogging. When I first looked for data on this, I couldn’t find any evidence that men were reacting in the way we would expect them to. More recently I finally found some evidence of a shift, but it is clearly only on the margins (at least for now). Part of the challenge is the confusion created by delayed marriage; you can’t tease out the difference between women delaying marriage and men on a “marriage strike” until the generation in question is in their late 30s and early 40s. So it is possible that large numbers of Gen Y and Gen Z men are doing as you say (and as we would rationally expect), but I haven’t been able to find data backing this up.

    There is also the challenge of teasing out the real mechanism. I suspect that what we are starting to see isn’t men in their teens and twenties making a conscious decision to reject marriage, and then reordering their life priorities. What I think has happened is the culture has drifted such that the signals that you and I followed at the same age are much weaker. I think men are coasting in their 20s because they don’t see the near or intermediate term payoff you and I saw at the same age. By the time their future wife is tired of having sex with other men, these men might be delighted to take her on, but they aren’t prepared to fulfill the role of boring loyal dude.

    This latter possibility should actually frighten young marriage delaying women much more than a classic “strike”. They know the sexual power they hold, and are confident they can coax a man into breaking his strike. What they can’t do is go back in time and have him focus his 20s on career, just like they can’t go back and focus their own youth on finding a husband. Those opportunities are simply gone, and can’t be recovered.

  25. Jack Russell says:

    If you live in Ontario, I know someone who’s friend is a divorce lawyer and his ilk are lobbying (bribing) to change the laws like the province of British Columbia, where if you are shacked up for two years you are considered married. Divorce lawyers business is way down with most people avoiding marriage and they need to find new ways of getting income. No surprise that homosexual “marriage” was supported by many of them.

    mgtowhorseman: Interesting that many businesses in Canada cannot fill positions of retiring people. Canada has one of the worst apprenticeship programs in the west. I remember in the 80s on, they always wanted Journeyman, never apprentices. I hope this bites them where it hurts.
    Early boomers want immigration to keep the population high so their 3x + overvalued homes don’t decrease in value. They are mostly liberal minded and will take all that they can with the years they have left. Other generations “can pick” up the tab.

  26. Otto says:

    I suspect that what we are starting to see isn’t men in their teens and twenties making a conscious decision to reject marriage, and then reordering their life priorities.

    How man are rejecting marriage vs not preparing for marriage (or life for that matter), because they were de-emphasized (in favor of girls) in school, had trouble finding work or a career, and just don’t feel the American dream is possible for them?

    In as much as marriage is part of the traditional American dream, I supposed you can say they are rejecting marriage. But, I think a bigger problem is young men are abandoning the American dream–the idea that you’ll do better than your parents; the idea that if you work hard enough you can have a good life.

    Once you’ve abandoned the American dream, then doing just enough to get by makes sense; enjoying your life now, instead of building for the future makes sense.

  27. 7817 says:

    There’s not enough contempt in the world for church leaders that focus on men as the primary problem in all of this.

    This latter possibility should actually frighten young marriage delaying women much more than a classic “strike”. They know the sexual power they hold, and are confident they can coax a man into breaking his strike. What they can’t do is go back in time and have him focus his 20s on career, just like they can’t go back and focus their own youth on finding a husband. Those opportunities are simply gone, and can’t be recovered.

    This is what the church leaders care about. They have the foresight these women don’t, and are trying to shame the men into focusing on a career early instead of being a momma’s boy playing video games so that these women never have to face even the consequences you are describing, Dalrock.

    The problem is never the women, its the men. This is true across the board, from Tim Keller to Doug Wilson to Michael Foster.

  28. Pingback: Reblog: The joke’s on him (Dalrock – The Portly Politico

  29. Oscar says:

    Anonymous Reader says:
    April 19, 2019 at 10:26 am

    Rabbit trial…

    Hopefully, rabbits are afforded the right to representation. Rabbit lives matter, you know.

  30. Oscar says:

    @ mgtowhorseman says:
    April 19, 2019 at 10:54 am

    Here in rural Ontario, hell even Toronto, our underclass are not as skilled. Humping packages or pulling crops, yes but skilled tradesmen, nope. Our funnel is impoverished country to u.s. to canada.
    All the ones who can make a go of it stay there. We get the truly useless.

    RPL was referring to 2nd, and 3rd generation Hispanics. Most 0th, and 1st generation Hispanics do menial work. I’m an exception to that rule, but my dad was an engineer in our native country, so he always expected me to get a degree, so I’m an engineer now, like him. Even so, I picked fruit, and worked on farms and at lumber yards when I was young.

    I have a waiting list of clients wanting me to pull down christmas lights, service the lawn tractor, bring out the patio furniture. My “spring special” that a hubby could do in a day, involving no significant repairs is $500 flat fee up to 8 hours. And I am turning down work.

    Dude, you gotta share your secret. Between my teenage son and me, we could clean up.

  31. Opus says:

    Until a few decades ago the Legal Profession in England was not allowed to advertise – all that could be done to show your existence was to have a small entry in Yellow Pages – and anything other than a small plaque or shingle as I believe you say was professional misconduct; even – say – a neon sign would be seen as advertising. Word of mouth was the only way to acquire work. Shortly after the change an aggressive male divorce lawyer in London began running ads in highly visible places. I forget the one aimed at women or where situate but whilst standing at the urinals in a Pub one would see before one the ad aimed at men headlined ‘Ditch the Bitch’. This sort of thing brings the Legal Profession into disrepute. Sometimes too I think your First Amendment ought to go – advertising Divorce is irresponsible and tasteless as much as say advertising cigarettes or Islam, Atheism or promoting homosexuality as I often see on the sides of buses. Almost all Matrimonial Lawyers – now – are women and no self respecting man will go anywhere near the discipline and it is not real law at all for it is very much made up as it goes along and all you need to remember is the mantra ‘the best interests of the children’ whatever that might mean but just keep saying it. It is a long while since I last opened the two volume Rayden or settled a Petition.

    The use of that word ‘closet’ has implications.

  32. Gunner Q says:

    Here’s the California version of that billboard.

    https://gunnerq.com/2018/05/25/child-upport/

  33. white says:

    This ad is incredibly effective for one more reason: women have an unexplainable hatred for their husbands’ stuff and gets catharsis from throwing them away.

  34. Anonymous Reader says:

    <chin-pulling

    Speaking as a True Conservative Christian Pastor, yes, that is an offensive advertisement because while divorce is necessary from time to time when men fail to live up to their proper Bible role, it is not a good thing in and of itself. Of course if men would only treat their wives with true love, deference and respect such questionable advertising would soon cease because the lawyers would not make enough money.

    Haurummph!

    Really this is just another example of men not properly vetting their fiance, leading to trouble a few years after the marriage. Now, take me for example…

    /chin-pulling

  35. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Opus: Sometimes too I think your First Amendment ought to go – advertising Divorce is irresponsible and tasteless as much as say advertising cigarettes or Islam, Atheism or promoting homosexuality as I often see on the sides of buses.

    Opus, the First Amendment doesn’t protect all speech equally. Commercial speech (i.e., ads) gets the least protection. Commercial speech can be (and is) heavily regulated. There are consumer protection, fair competition, and civil rights laws that regulate advertising. Civil rights laws impose anti-discrimination policies on housing, rental, and employment ads. For instance, you can’t run employment ads whose wording might discourage women or people of color from applying. You can fined or sued for employment discrimination if you do.

    By contrast, political speech has the greatest First Amendment protection. A law professor told me that it was “the core” of the First Amendment. Especially unpopular political speech (see West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 1943). So technically, Nazism enjoys the greatest First Amendment protection. Which is ironic, considering that many young people think hate speech isn’t protected at all.

  36. Jesus Rodriguez de la Torre says:

    Not all women hate their husband’s stuff. My wife appreciates some of my things more than I do. Then again, she has her dead father’s glasses and old wallet as a cherished possession in our safe. Not all women have gone insane, and there’s still truly submissive wives though, as Proverbs 31 reminds us, they are as rare as fine rubies. One of my daughters was recently fighting back tears over how hard her husband works and how good he is to her despite her failures. The other 2 daughters are not far from that mindset. Unfortunately, outside of my own nuclear family, all I see is a desert. I know of not a single young woman that is worth my son to marry because they’re all infected with feminism.

  37. Pingback: The joke’s on him. | Reaction Times

  38. Minesweeper says:

    Dalrock
    “This has been the biggest surprise of my decade of blogging. When I first looked for data on this, I couldn’t find any evidence that men were reacting in the way we would expect them to.”

    Indeed, I think really what has happened is that the roles men would previously play have vanished, like entire industries being outsourced to the 3rd world.

    There is no role of husband nor father anymore, there is “partner” (just someone to share the burden with) and part-time dad (if your lucky).

    Whereas the roles of “wife” and mother have been massively enhanced, to effectively take over both the above roles as well. Kinda leads to men being unable to make a clear decision as to what do to. So they are just ambling along, seeing what opportunities arise, sex when they can, marriage, kids when they can. But they know the only permanent role available for them is 2nd class, so why would they ever throw themselves into it now.

    The men are seeing that those roles have been removed by law, society and culture. And are responding.

    This change of events may have been at the females behest but once they are passed the big 40, they seem to be pretty much out of options as well.

  39. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Speaking of Charlize Theron: https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2019/04/19/charlize-theron-my-child-was-a-boy-until-she-looked-at-me-and-said-i-am-not-a-boy/

    Hollywood actress Charlize Theron revealed that she is raising her adopted seven-year-old boy as a girl.

    “I thought she was a boy,” Charlize Theron said, “until she looked at me when she was three years old and said: ‘I am not a boy!’”

  40. Jesus Rodriguez de la Torre says:

    “Speaking as a True Conservative Christian Pastor, yes, that is an offensive advertisement because while divorce is necessary from time to time when men fail to live up to their proper Bible role, it is not a good thing in and of itself. Of course if men would only treat their wives with true love, deference and respect such questionable advertising would soon cease because the lawyers would not make enough money.”
    You sir, are a major part of the problem. Women are as sinful as men, are they not? To presume that even a perfect Man will always have a bride that follows is to deny the first 2 chapters of Revelations. If God divorced both Israel and later Judea, how DARE you lay the entire blame n men! You sir are a stink to my nostrils.

  41. Dalrock says:

    @Anon Reader

    Really this is just another example of men not properly vetting their fiance, leading to trouble a few years after the marriage. Now, take me for example…

    This is another example of conservatives not respecting men in the morning. When the man is unmarried, he is told he needs to marry to gain the conservatives’ respect*. And besides, any woman is too good for you, especially unwed mothers. After the rube falls for the con, it turns into derision:

    Your the one who married her!

    *He is also told all he needs to do to attract a wife is gain the respect of older men, but that is a different thread of the same basic con.

  42. feeriker says:

    Otto:

    But, I think a bigger problem is young men are abandoning the American dream–the idea that you’ll do better than your parents; the idea that if you work hard enough you can have a good life.

    Once you’ve abandoned the American dream, then doing just enough to get by makes sense; enjoying your life now, instead of building for the future makes sense.

    They aren’t abandoned the American Dream[TM]; it’s been taken away from them. Heck, even a later-stage Boomer like me knows that there isn’t a snowball’s chance in Hell that I’ll ever be able to stay in a decent job for more than a year or so, let alone have any chance to retire before I’m ready to drop dead anyway, given the shambles the economy is in (and will stay in). However, at least guys my age (most of us, anyway) were blessed and fortunate enough to at least have gotten a taste of the American Dream while it still lasted. The young guys just coming of age today can clearly see the future and know that it holds NOTHING of promise for them economically, no matter how hard they might work themselves to near death. Add to that the terminal state of marriage and family, to say nothing of the overt persecution of men as a sex, and they know better than to knock themselves out for anybody. Simply stated, these young guys are calling “bullshit!” on the idea of the “American Dream” and raising a middle finger to both their parents (for having trashed their future over the last three quarters of a century) and their female/mangina male peers (for not only perpetuating the current state of decay, but accelerating it) and justifiably so.

  43. feeriker says:

    abandoned = abandoning

  44. cshort says:

    @Otto

    On the translation of Malachi into English from Hebrew, I first wondered if you were missing a Hebrewism that prevents a direct word for word translation. However, to check that I went to the Greek LXX as I know a bit of Greek and I think you’re correct in the distortion that’s being introduced to the translations. The translators from Hebrew to Greek would have known of any such issues making it more likely that it would show up in the Greek, as Hebrewism’s often are discoverable in the New Testament.

    The Greek LXX of Mal 2:16 starts:

    ἀλλὰ ἐὰν μισήσας ἐξαποστείλῃς, λέγει Κύριος ὁ Θεὸς τοῦ ᾿Ισραήλ

    This translates to

    “But for you that hates divorce”, says the Lord, the God of Israel.

    λέγει Κύριος ὁ Θεὸς τοῦ ᾿Ισραήλ is clearly “says the Lord, the God of Israel.” However, the statement has no word that’s a subject/pronoun so you have to go based of the case/tense of the verb. The verb, μισήσας, which means to hate is in 2nd tense/person (you/he/she). By using the LXX we take out the cultural reasons more modern translators may have in distorting the text since it was done during the 2nd century BC.

    My understanding that is that the Hebrew word שָׂנֵ֣א that translates roughly to “that He hates” is actually in the 3rd person, so that removes it as God stating it while him being the subject.

  45. cshort says:

    @Otto That should be that I don’t think you’re correct in the distortion. Though what they’re translating it to does still appear to be a stretch of the actual text.

  46. mgtowhorseman says:

    Oscar

    May just be where I live. Semi rural affluent commuter city. Lots of women getting the house 15 minutes out of town. Half acre lots. Long driveways. Lots of trendy restored pre 1950 farmhouses.
    Big enough they need maintenance not like a Toronto 40 foot lot. Plus the men have an hour plus commute minimum into the city for work.

    The key is the niche. I dont do finish carpentry except rehang a door. Maybe one deck a year. No electrical except maybe swap out a light fixture. Stuff tradesmen wont touch but too much for a person to do with duct tape and a dinner knife.

    Its a sad byproduct of modern life. I get paid to do what all husbands did on saturdays when I was a kid. Dad\hubby stuff. Now the Dads are absent, incompetent or simply dont give a fuck enough to do it.

    Bitch gonna take it soon anyway, why bother fixing the drafty window.

    P.s. you wouldn’t believe how few people know how to reglaze a window.

  47. mgtowhorseman says:

    And lots of the referrals are the 40+ divorcee who even after the divorce could bat the eyelashes and get Bob the neighbor to fix the plugged disposal. Now they are far enough along Bob says no thanks.

    And these referrals I turn down flat. “Will your husband be home?” “Why no I am divorced.” “Sorry Mame booked up til November.”

    After about five of them made blatant passes while working in thier houses “My you are so handy, I wish you were around more often.” Batting eyes. Put an end to that crap right there. Avoided a false metoo by luck. Hence the bodycam.

  48. mgtowhorseman says:

    One last comment.

    Ladies (and yuppy men)

    Its called Fuel Stabilizer!!!

    Put the lawn tractor or snowblower away for the season with a half full tank.
    Six or eight months later….gee it wont start!!

    Facepalm.

  49. Frank K says:

    even a later-stage Boomer like me knows that there isn’t a snowball’s chance in Hell that I’ll ever be able to stay in a decent job for more than a year or so, let alone have any chance to retire before I’m ready to drop dead anyway

    We’re supposed to work until we are 70, but no one will hire people for non menial work after they turn 50. The young ones are seeing their parents fall out of the middle class when they get laid off from their corporate jobs, and they fully understand that the future isn’t so bright that that they need shades.

    No wonder so many middle age people are filing for Social Security disability, even though the benefits are rather paltry. It’s that or a part time job stocking shelves at Walmart.

  50. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    feeriker: They aren’t abandoned the American Dream[TM]; it’s been taken away from them.

    Especially for straight, white males (SWM). So many articles about “the need for more diversity” in this and that profession. Government jobs don’t want SWM. Academia (from teaching to administration) don’t want SWM. The trade unions are being pressured to “diversity.” The globalist elite don’t want too many SWM if they’re Christian.

    If non-SWM complain, they’re listened to, even celebrated for their “courage” for … what? For whining? But if SWM complain about unfairness, they’re sneered at for their “white fragility.”

    Christian SWM built the West, doing the heavy lifting. After they built it, they were told they were racist and sexist, because didn’t share the fruits. So they shared. Now they’re being bullied into giving it all up (globalist elite excepted).

  51. wodansthane says:

    Hmm. I didn’t know that Sheila Gregoire now has a national marketing agency. More cash!

  52. Trust says:

    @Anonymous Reader says: April 19, 2019 at 1:06 pm:
    Really this is just another example of men not properly vetting their fiance, leading to trouble a few years after the marriage.
    _____________

    I used to think that way. Problem is, women feel and behave so much different after the wedding. I don’t even think the women themselves foresee how much different they will be.

    I avoided marriage for a long time based on how wives behaved. When I did consider marriage, I took vetting very seriously. I had my friends, parents, sisters, and grandmother vet her. I even had the rare opportunity to vet her by talking to her ex husbands parents (it’s not as strange as it sounds, but I wont’ go into it here). I even vetted her reasons for divorce (two women turned up pregnant by her ex husband at the same time), and her remorse and distress over it.

    I’m sad to say it was ineffectual. Despite how seriously I took the vetting, the minute we got married, her options and the power structure of the relationship changed dramatically. Turns out, after the wedding she didn’t appreciate my character, diligence, and dependability as much as she seemed to value them while pursuing the wedding. And all the things she seemed to despise about her ex husband — his affairs, his laziness, staying out all night, etc. — suddenly made me boring by comparison, rather than appreciated by comparison.

    Long story short, vetting is crucial. But it is more difficult than most think, because while you can question and observe, you cannot mimic the environment that Marriage 2.0 will put you in.

  53. Iowa Slim says:

    This made me think of “Girl on the Billboard,” by Del Reeves (1965)

    The song could be from the standpoint of Billboard Girl’s next husband.

  54. Thursday says:

    @damncrackers

    Watched a few more of York’s ads on YouTube, and they’re all pretty good. Best tagline: “ladies, please love your children more than you hate their fathers.”

  55. Fred Gilham says:

    I believe the Malachi 2:16 passage uses 3rd person because it uses indirect speech to render quotation. Literally, it’s “He hates divorce says Yahweh God of Israel….”

    I note with dismay that ESV 2011 has completely eliminated the word “hate” in its translation:

    “For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her, says the Lord, the God of Israel, covers his garment with violence….”

    ESV 2001 says, “For the man who hates and divorces, says the LORD, the God of Israel….”

    I would speculate that there is a feminist imperative operating in both translations.

  56. PokeSalad says:

    I didn’t know that Sheila Gregoire now has a national marketing agency.

    Horsefeed sales?

    Asking for a friend.

  57. Minesweeper says:

    @Fred Gilham,
    I agree with you on Mal 2:16, the hebrew says “…he-hates to-send-away-of he-says Yahweh … and-he-covers wrong on garment-of-him….and-you-are-kept in-spirit-of-you and-not you-shall-be treacherous”

    The Jewish men were often admonished by God\Jesus for pretending to be righteous and looking good on the outside. They had a very strange notion of divorce and marriage at times as well. Strain the gnat and swallow the camel kind of thing.

    Which has led to a few texts that don’t get translated correctly into our mind set or even into english properly.

    I think DS posted this was about the Jewish tradition of separation whereby women have to “live in sin” as they cant remarry if the men didn’t give them a written letter. But I can’t see that in the text. That would have been mentioned if it was the case.

  58. Anonymous Reader says:

    @minesweeper & others

    Here is a long rabbit trail you can follow if you wish: Jewish divorce practices. I see more than I want to know in just this article, but if you want to trace things, have at it.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Agunah

  59. Minesweeper says:

    @AR, yeah that was what I was meaning. Good find for that article, and like you I don’t want to get any further into it !

  60. Kyrie Eleison says:

    I’m mid-thirties male living in a west coastal Fempire of heathen depravity. On the floor of my megacorp, easily 30% of the females over 30 don’t have kids, nor are married. Many of my acquaintances and peers my age aren’t even serial-monogomists, and those that are married don’t even TTC until 32+.

    The marriage strike is full-speed, the prevailing attitude is “why buy the cow…” Maybe my circle is guys that pull booty no problem, but they know the risks, hell they tried to talk me out of it!

    Strange times..

  61. Here is another four-word message worthy of a billboard in Dallas/Ft. Worth or any area:

    DO NOT GET MARRIED.

  62. In the corporate world, it is really fascinating to observe the number of women age 23-35 who are going full bore in their careers. Very ambitious. Usually marketing, accounting/finance and sales jobs. Working 50 hour+ weeks. Some roles with frequent travel. Moving up the org chart or sitting pretty and coasting within in a heavy fem-dominated bureaucracy. Weekends are pretty much cut in half as Sunday is often prep day for Monday meetings or upcoming travel. Grindstoning it.
    Most are now single and never married. Very few divorcees as you have to have been married at all first.

    I would not describe them as entirely unhappy women.
    However, if you spend any time talking to them past the normal 15 minute pleasantries, under the surface is often revealed a sense of loneliness, regret and growing dread.
    Also, if you would dare ask the question (carefully) some will tell you how the dating/courting scene has been rendered hopeless, if not annihilated altogether.

  63. Frank K says:

    On the floor of my megacorp, easily 30% of the females over 30 don’t have kids

    The anecdotal number I see is about 50% don’t have kids (those still under 40).

    However, if you spend any time talking to them past the normal 15 minute pleasantries, under the surface is often revealed a sense of loneliness, regret and growing dread.

    They do a good job of hiding it, though. Then again, many mentally ill people are very good at hiding it too.

    Also, if you would dare ask the question (carefully) some will tell you how the dating/courting scene has been rendered hopeless, if not annihilated altogether.

    I’ve heard more than a few who without any prodding will say that. One woman even told me “you have no idea of how hard it is to find a man to marry.”

    I’ve been hit on by women 20-30 years younger than me, which I found weird as I’m old enough to be their fathers. It probably helps that I’m not graying yet nor wrinkled, but there’s no way anyone would think that I’m that young.

    It’s also interesting that shacking up isn’t as popular as it once was, though it’s probably because the desirable men need to play house with her in exchange for sexual favors.

  64. Minesweeper says:

    @constrained,Frank

    I’ve seen the very same thing happen, when I hit around 40, I was literally having women ask to ‘move in’\’go straight to marriage’ even without us having had a date, it was very wierd indeed.

    Guys aren’t really used to that behaviour and its difficult to know how to backout of it without the female getting humiliated. I’m pretty sure all the women who did try that with me ended up with someone eventually tho.

    I also had very attractive females half my age hit on me who had either never had a relationship or couldn’t find anyone for a LTR. When I was that age females would have been picked up so fast they wouldn’t have touched the floor quite frankly.

    A very strange shift has occurred cross the matching world. The last girl at work who got married and she was lovely btw (a real sweetheart) married a guy almost 30 years older 😀

    Strange times we live in.

  65. Minesweeper says:

    “under the surface is often revealed a sense of loneliness, regret and growing dread.”

    and constrained panic.

    I’ve always said, women that can’t land a man are like men who can’t land a job, that same sense of hopelessness is experienced.

    Women view relationships like men view work, without it they can’t get that level of satisfaction, work just doesn’t do it for women. Should I be surprised they still don’t understand themselves ?

  66. feeriker says:

    Here is another four-word message worthy of a billboard in Dallas/Ft. Worth or any area:

    DO NOT GET MARRIED.

    If one of us were to pay for a billboard ad with a red pill message like that, I wonder how long it would take for it to be vandalized or torn down (assuming that it was even allowed to be put up in the first place)?

  67. Frank K says:

    Correction:

    It’s also interesting that shacking up isn’t as popular as it once was, though it’s probably because the desirable men DON’T need to play house with her in exchange for sexual favors.

    I’ve always said, women that can’t land a man are like men who can’t land a job, that same sense of hopelessness is experienced.

    There is one big difference: once a woman reels in a husband she can pretty much hang onto him as long as she wants (provided she didn’t marry a Chad). But for men, as far as jobs go, the layoff monster is always lurking in the shadows.

  68. Minesweeper says:

    @Frank

    As for married men, they are stuck between the layoff monster and the divorce monster, and one may cause the other.

    The joy of being male.

  69. BillyS says:

    Finding a job after 50 is a lot harder than many realize. I had another opportunity fizzle out after looking very promising last week. Quite frustrating.

  70. feeriker says:

    Finding a job after 50 is a lot harder than many realize. I had another opportunity fizzle out after looking very promising last week. Quite frustrating.

    Another passenger in the same boat here. It’s been almost nine months since my last long-term gig ended.

  71. Frank K says:

    I constantly get emails from recruiters offering six month gigs that would require that I relocate. I could see laid off 50+ year olds accepting one out of desperation. And these aren’t flunky jobs. Many are lead or even architect positions with a requirements list as long as your arm, and they pay $40-50 an hour, no benefits. And you have to relocate on your own dime.

  72. Minesweeper says:

    Marriage not required for divorce payoff:

    ” An actress and barista, she’d hired him just a few weeks before to negotiate a settlement of a potential lawsuit against Whiteside. It’s unclear what she would have alleged. Avenatti quickly struck a $3-million deal, and the $2.75 million was Whiteside’s first payment.”

    https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-avenatti-hassan-whiteside-embezzlement-20190421-story.html

    I guess, just being female now and in a “relationship” qualifies.

  73. Finding a job after 50 is a lot harder than many realize. I had another opportunity fizzle out after looking very promising last week. Quite frustrating.

    I am finding that H-1B and India is the big problem here. There is plenty of work out there, too much of it. Its like what a red pill man would tell a feminist with $100K in student loans pouring him coffee at Starbucks, “learn to code, bitch.” But people are wise to India being imported 3rd world labor wages for 1st world technology. I’ve seen their code, debugged it, and added to it. There are good coders and bad coders from India, but they are all CHEAP. And that is what business wants, cheap. $40 an hour for a 50 year old with 25+ years of professional expertise is not a lot of money, and it entirely due to the fact that India has cannibalized wages down too low.

    Blame Infosys and H-1B and immigration lobbyists in Washington DC.

  74. Frank K says:

    $40 an hour for a 50 year old with 25+ years of professional expertise is not a lot of money, and it entirely due to the fact that India has cannibalized wages down too low.

    Used to be that $40/hr + benefits was the going wage for a junior coder, but now employers want more than that for the money, they want a lead, a “Principal Engineer”, and just for a.6 month gig.

    “Learn to code” isn’t very useful advice anymore. So you can code in Python or Javascript? Big whoop. There are tons of people who can do that.

  75. Eddie Willers says:

    The more I read comments sections like this (and at other sites like Rollo Tomassi, Heartiste etc) I realize that I have had the great good fortune to be completely clueless when it comes to wimmin signalling their interest in me (if, indeed, they do/did – I can’t tell). At 54, divorced 6 years and now back to the same financial position as pre-marriage (ie: property & cash on hand), I hate to think that I might lose it all by being stupid enough to be led back to the plantation by some bint in wallet-seeking mode.

  76. Spike says:

    Closet space? Is that what appeals to women now?
    This isn’t harmless. We are all paying for industries like this through the welfare system.
    Two things:
    -The divorce / law industry has a lot to answer for, enriching themselves out of the misery of others
    -This is going to backfire badly, as young men looking at this will get cynical of marriage in statistically valid numbers

  77. feeriker says:

    -This is going to backfire badly, as young men looking at this will get cynical of marriage in statistically valid numbers

    That, of course, is already happening. The important question is, HOW BIG do those statistically valid numbers have to grow before society is forced to wake up and clean up its act?

  78. BillyS says:

    Probably much higher than we expect and then the consequences will be far worse than anyone expects.

  79. BillyS says:

    Another passenger in the same boat here. It’s been almost nine months since my last long-term gig ended.

    I thought finding my next position would be easy since I have highly sought after skills (appdev security). The jobs pay within my range and I have been told by recruiters it is a good range, but many positions have still flopped.

    Some are certainly due to my personality, but all of them can’t be that since I am very dynamic and outgoing in an interview, along with significant certifications and experience, but it is really hard when things keep fizzling.

    I am looking to expand some writing and possibly course development, since I have ability and interest there as well. Time will tell.

  80. Frank K says:

    I thought finding my next position would be easy since I have highly sought after skills (appdev security). The jobs pay within my range and I have been told by recruiters it is a good range, but many positions have still flopped.

    Few things are as frustrating as doing well in an interview (or as the young pups would say: “crushing it”), thinking you’ve aced it. and not getting an offer, just a curt email saying “we have decided to not move forward with you”, if you get anything at all.

  81. feeriker says:

    Few things are as frustrating as doing well in an interview (or as the young pups would say: “crushing it”), thinking you’ve aced it. and not getting an offer, just a curt email saying “we have decided to not move forward with you”, if you get anything at all.

    How blessed is the man who gets an actual RESPONSE from such people, however terse or vague, acknowledging his efforts to obtain employment, however unsuccessful in the end. In my total of 1.5 years of job searching over the last half decade, I have received exactly ONE (1) response of the type you describe from a prospective employer following the interview process. What always otherwise happens, no matter how phenomenally well the interview process goes, and no matter how many steps into the process I am, is that I am ghosted. In reading various employment and professional fora and in chatting with my peers who are passengers on this same garbage skow to Hell, I have concluded that this is absolutely the NORM nowadays, and not just for us middle-aged white guys.

    Fortunately, I am now in the process of working with an old colleague to ramp up a startup business in which we already have a dozen clients lined up, so I’m hoping that my days of dealing with recruiters and the deluded dolts who hire them are soon to be a thing of the past. I would HIGHLY recommend to my peers (middle-aged 50-plus white collar males) to find their “inner entrepreneur” and bond with like minded peers to start their own gigs. It won’t be a smooth or easy endeavor, that’s for sure, but there’s no such thing anymore. It appears obvious by now that working for someone else’s business empire is going to be a losing proposition in the long run.

  82. American says:

    I was at the front of the line at a CVS yesterday and some leftardess and her two feral bastards (all of whom I’m taxed to pay for) walked toward the young female cashier who gave me a dismissive look and prepared to help the cut-in-line crooked Hillary voter. I’m a middle-age male so she saw me only for what utility I could offer rather than as a real sexual prospect which would have been a different look and, of course, she would have dismissed the woman and taken me waiting at the front of the line.

    I YELLED at the female cashier while pointing to the big sign that said line forms here with the red carpet under my feet designating the front of the line and asked her if she wanted me to call the store manager to complain. She shook her head no and I walked in front of Mz feminist leftardess and happily checked out of that store. I felt pure hatred from both women the entire time. Fortunately, I don’t care.

    It’s a new world and feminist leftardesses, both young and old, are going to have to deal with males insisting upon our rights now. They can flush their stupid leftard identity politic hierarchy which places the straight white middle-aged male at the bottom directly down the toilet and if they can’t pull the handle: I WILL.

  83. OKRickety says:

    Re. programming jobs and pay:

    As I’m currently unemployed as well, I just saw a job listing with my state’s Employment(/unemployment) Department looking for “Design, write & modify COBOL and SQL database application programs”. This temporary position (<25 hours/week) has a pay rate of $15.83/hour. That shows how much this state Department knows about jobs and pay.

  84. Frank K says:

    This temporary position (<25 hours/week) has a pay rate of $15.83/hour

    Fast food places in my neck of the woods pay $12/hr. Was that job with the state, or was it a private sector opening?

    Interesting how so many people with tech experience can’t find work, even though we are told there is a huge shortage of people to hire. I remember 20+ years ago when there really was a shortage and you often received an offer the day or day after the interview, which was 1 to 2 hours. They moved fast back then because they knew that if they didn’t that someone else would snap you up. Now the process takes weeks with day long interviews that are used to find a reason to not hire you. Shortage my butt. And it’s not just older workers. I’ve seen young pups take months to find a new job after being laid off.

  85. feeriker says:

    OKRickety says:
    April 24, 2019 at 10:36 am

    I long ago realized that almost every IT-related job description is written by HRetards (from which the preponderance of recruitards are clearly drawn) who have less than ZE-RO clue about what the job they[re writing a description for actually requires. More horrifying still, very few Program or Project Managers who submit the reqs for these positions have any idea either. (Prime example: “10 years experience with RSA Archer GRC tool.” RSA Archer hasn’t been around for even five years.)

    Needless to say, I ignore 99.99 percent of the spam from IT recruiters that floods my inbox. Responding to any of them is a moron’s errand and an unforgivable waste of life minutes.

    Shortage my butt.

    About a year ago I was attending a vendor presentation on some cybersecurity incident management tool, the name of which I can’t even remember now (it wasn’t one of the industry’s standards). The femtard making the presentation actually had the raw gall to remark “there is almost ZE-RO unemployment among cybersecurity professionals and the demand just keeps rising.”

    Groans immediately broke out among several attendees and I noticed many eye rolls and head shakes. I got up and walked out right then and there. Anybody who would make such an utterly asinine statement as this woman made has immediately destroyed all of their own credibility and I felt no need to stay and listen to anything else she had to say, no matter how good her company’s product might have been. Only later did I think to myself “well, yeah, maybe from the perspective of a woman who has been groomed for and shoehorned into a job in this high-visibility tech field as an AA/EO hire just for having a vagina and who stands almost ZE-RO chance of ever being laid off or fired for that very reason, there probably IS “ZE-RO unemployment” in this field.”

  86. Frank K says:

    Needless to say, I ignore 99.99 percent of the spam from IT recruiters that floods my inbox. Responding to any of them is a moron’s errand and an unforgivable waste of life minutes.

    So true, plus they are all for six month gigs that require relocation. They are immediately deleted.

  87. innocentbystanderboston says:

    OK,

    As I’m currently unemployed as well, I just saw a job listing with my state’s Employment(/unemployment)

    What state do you live in? I might be able to get you a job

  88. Frank K says:

    The profession has become a joke. The job descriptions say nonsense like “seeking a rock star engineer”. What is that supposed to mean? They’re looking for an engineer who is popular? Or maybe one with groupies, who bangs a different girl every night? Or one who does drugs?

    I’m glad I’m approaching retirement and can’t wait to check out from this nonsense.

  89. OKRickety says:

    Frank K,

    I double-checked to make sure. The Job is with the State. Another opening is full-time IS App’n Specialist II to do “.Net programming for Internet and Intranet Web applications” with a salary of $45,779/year (ca. $22/hour).

    IBB,

    I’m in OK but open possibly to relocation. I’m an old-school COBOL guy mostly in the IBM mainframe world. Generally, my skillset only exists in “old” Americans and, to some degree, it exists in younger Indians.

    I actually have an interview Friday for a direct-hire position. It will be interesting. A former co-worker told me that on one occasion when he went to the interview, he could immediately tell that they were not interested in an old guy like him. They didn’t say it, of course.

  90. OK, Let me ask my boss about relocation. Best of luck on that interview.

    By the by, a .Net programmer should never agree to a $48K a year salary. That is chump change. You can get $120K if you code .Net almost anywhere. And if you can’t, move.

    Frank,

    The job descriptions say nonsense like “seeking a rock star engineer”.

    Yeah what that manager is “seeking” is to pad his annual bonus. That is what he is seeking. He is looking for a software developer who can gather requirements, write all the code, test all the code, deploy all the code, and fix all the code when the business changes its mind. And he wants one person to do it all that way he can come in way under budget and get a bigger bonus. I would still apply for the job (and take it if you had nothing else) but leave the instant you get something else. Let him find another rock-star.

  91. Frank K says:

    You can get $120K if you code .Net almost anywhere.

    You’d be surprised. I’ve had recruiters call me about jobs like that and they rarely pay more than 90K. In fact I had a recruiter contact me today, saying the pay was in the 75-85K range, and they wanted at least 5 years experience. Sure, you can get more in places like Boston or San Jose, but in flyover country pay is generally much lower.

    That is what he is seeking. He is looking for a software developer who can gather requirements, write all the code, test all the code, deploy all the code, and fix all the code when the business changes its mind.

    You mean there are places not like that? 😉

  92. Frank K says:

    I double-checked to make sure. The Job is with the State.

    Interesting. Government usually pays a little less than the private sector, but $15/hr for a programmer? My employer pays kids in summer internships much more than that. I know the local Kroger’s pays people $15/hr to stock shelves (they have signs at the store), and this isn’t in some big city. I guess Oklahoma isn’t OK.

    I took a COBOL class in college eons ago, but not on an IBM mainframe (no punched cards), but rather on an HP-3000 mini computer. Never did COBOL for pay, I started out in C and assembler.

  93. Dale U says:

    BillyS and feeriker:
    May God bless and guide you.

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