The guard in the tower shouts “Lower the drawbridge and unbolt the door!”

As I noted in the first post in this series, complementarians used their trusted position as defenders of conservative christian culture to dismantle the defenses against the feminist attack.  This is the same strategy Christian gay activists are using as well.  On their face they seem to be protecting conservative Christianity from the charges of hate and bigotry, but their real focus is on dismantling the defenses.  This is true for both the defenses protecting theology and the church as well as defenses of the family, with a special emphasis on children.

Rev Thomas Littleton at the blog Thirty Pieces of Silver describes this in ERLC Family Conference Redefines Family As The Inclusive Church:

ERLC and Russell Moore advocate redefining family and promote gay priest who wants to babysit your children.

Littleton is referring to Pastor Sam Allberry and his Living Out ministry (see my post from yesterday).  Littleton notes that Allberry wants Christian families to lower the drawbridge that protects the family (emphasis mine):

Here is where the ERLC Cross Shaped Family Conference comes into full step, not only with Allberry’s Living Out “Church Audit,” but also with one of the most disturbing messages of the Revoice Conference last July.  According to Allberry, the Christian mentality of family is akin to creating a nuclear family with marriage, kids and the family dog and then going into a fortress or castle and “pulling up the drawbridge.”  So, whether Nate Collins, the founder of Revoice, uses the term “idolatry of family” or Sam Allberry refers to the nuclear family as a “closed fortress” of only biological members, BOTH draw the same conclusion as Russell Moore — that Christians must redefine family as the broader (LGBT+ Inclusive) church.  Moore even asserts in his book that the local church is not a collection of families but is the family.  The biological family as God made it appears to be a problem for them, as are conservative faith and family values which resonate with generations of conservative Christians…

Not surprisingly, Allberry isn’t alone in pushing this message.  His fellow gay Christian activist Rosaria Butterfield preaches a stunningly similar message.  I’ve been told by multiple commenters that Butterfield is one of the good Christian gay activists.  For example, commenter David J wrote:

If you think Butterfield hasn’t sufficiently shown concern to protect the church and Christian families from gay activism, you either haven’t read much of her material or you’re determined to see her words (and mine) through a particular spin that you want to force her into.

Yet like Allberry, Butterfield is on a crusade to break down what she sees as unbiblical defenses for families with children.  Like Allberry Butterfield is a contributor for Russell Moore’s ERLC, and their messages are so well aligned that is obvious that they are collaborating.  Where Allberry commands that families lower the drawbridge so gay men like him can put our children to bed at night, Butterfield commands us to give gays the keys to our front doors.  From Butterfield’s ERLC article Why the gospel comes with a house key:

Take, for example, our Christian brothers and sisters who struggle with unchosen homosexual desires and longings, sensibilities and affections, temptations and capacities. Our brothers and sisters need the church to function as the Lord has called it to—as a family. Because Christian conversion always comes in exchange for the life you once loved, not in addition to it, people have much to lose in coming to Christ—and some people have more to lose than others. Some people have one cross, and others have ten to carry. People who live daily with unchosen homosexual desires also live with a host of unanswered questions and unfulfilled life dreams. What is your responsibility to those brothers and sisters who are in this position in life?

Our Christian responsibility includes a house key

One answer is this: the gospel comes with a house key.  Mark 10:28–31 reads:

Peter began to say to [Jesus], “See, we have left everything and followed you.”

Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Please note what Jesus says about how to love anyone who responds to the gospel in faith and obedience and who must lose everything in order to gain the kingdom’s promises. Jesus says that he expects we will lose partners and children and houses in the process of conversion, that conversion calls everyone to lose everything. God’s people need to wake up to something. If you want to share the gospel with the LGBTQ community or anyone who will lose family and homes, the gospel must come with a house key. This hundredfold blessing promised here in these verses is not going to fall from the sky. It is going to come from the church. It is going to come from the people of God acting like the family of God. God intends this blessing to come from you.

If you watch the Allberry video embedded in my previous post, you will see that this is the same exact argument Allberry gives for Christian families to provide gay Christians with access to their children.  I encourage you to read the Butterfield quote above and then watch the beginning of the Allberry video to see what I mean.

Lest you think this isn’t a major theme of Butterfield, at the bottom of her ERLC post it says that the content is taken from her new book The Gospel Comes with a House Key: Practicing Radically Ordinary Hospitality in Our Post-Christian World

Butterfield writes on the same subject at Piper’s Desiring God in an article titled The Best Weapon Is an Open Door.  Notice how she echoes Allberry in chastising Christian parents for seeing our homes as a fortress to protect our children, using the very same language:

If you believe that these are dangerous times, then you are right...

How tempting it is to withdraw. How easy it is to let fear rule our hearts as we shelter ourselves and our children from evil

…Christians must be intentional about seeking the stranger. We must think of our homes as hospitals, embassies, and incubators, not castles, fortresses, or museums…

Here is what this looks like. Singles from the church and neighborhood come over after work and help get dinner going. We have fun doing this. Sometimes there is laundry on my table that needs to be folded and put away (or stuffed back in the dryer). Sometimes there is a child still struggling with a math lesson. And we all behave better when it is not just us dealing with the messiness of unfolded laundry and unfinished math sheets.

Other neighbors start to show up. People with secret lives — people with secret drug addictions or dangerous relationships — cannot make plans easily. Christians need to be sensitive to this. They don’t know if they will be sober or safe three Tuesdays from yesterday. But if the invitation is open and regular, they can make it to your table on the fly. All people — believers and unbelievers — need to see transparent, Christian lives lived out in the real-time of tears and mess.

3. Give Away Your House Key

Not surprisingly, Russell Moore (president of ERLC) and Sam Allberry both endorse Butterfield’s book on the inside cover:

“One cannot spend any time at all with Rosaria Butterfield without a renewed sense of how good the good news really is. This book is a needed call to the church to model the hospitality of our Lord. As our culture faces a crisis of loneliness, this is the book we need. The book will inspire you and leave you with a notebook filled with ideas for how to practically engage your neighbors with the welcome of the gospel.”
Russell D. Moore, President, The Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention

“The biblical call to show hospitality is one of the most overlooked or misunderstood commands in Scripture. We either ignore it or mistake it for what our culture calls ‘entertaining.’ Rosaria Butterfield gives us a vision of hospitality that pulses with the beating heart of the gospel itself. We know a God who sought us out, took us in, made us family, and seated us at his table. It’s a vision that is bracing and attractive. It daunts us, but it shouldn’t. I wonder how different our homes, churches, and culture would look if we took it to heart.”
Sam Allberry, Speaker, Ravi Zacharias International Ministries; author, Is God Anti-Gay? and 7 Myths about Singleness

Note that while Butterfield and Allberry agree that as Christian parents we must open our homes and expose our children to gays, their reasoning is at times contradictory.  Allberry says we must do this as a reward for gays after they convert, as a substitute for the intimacy they gave up when they left the gay lifestyle.  Butterfield says the same thing, but she also says we must do this to witness to gays who are still in the lifestyle with the hope of converting them.  So giving gays access to our kids is both how we must witness to them, and the reward we must offer them while witnessing to entice them into converting.  But the reason you need to provide gays access to your children doesn’t matter.  What matters is that you lower the drawbridge and unbolt the door.

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This entry was posted in Desiring God, Dr. John Piper, Dr. Russell Moore, Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission (ERLC), Loud and proud complementarians, Rev Thomas Littleton, Rosaria Butterfield, Sam Allberry, Social Justice Warriors. Bookmark the permalink.

95 Responses to The guard in the tower shouts “Lower the drawbridge and unbolt the door!”

  1. The Question says:

    The only time to lower the drawbridge and open the door in this context is if you’re planning to replicate the Battle of Antioch. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antioch_(1098)

  2. Daniel says:

    All of this must have taken place before in the liberal churches that have already lost this war.

  3. Crude says:

    The approach Butterfield and company speak of is exactly the attitude the Catholic Church took with regards to gay priests.

    “Love and forgiveness. Second chances. Access to children. Trust and mercy. All are welcome – we trust you to behave. If you make a mistake, we’ll protect you.”

    Worked out great, eh?

  4. Will S. says:

    Reblogged this on Patriactionary and commented:
    Great work, Dalrock. Russell Moore is partially Soros-funded, and has long been problematic, and at least some recognize this. But many think highly of Rosaria Butterfield. I do not, and have taken issue with her in the past; thanks for highlighting this.

  5. anonymous_ng says:

    They’ve certainly done a bang up job of adapting to the surrounding culture, and in so doing becoming the face of Christianity to those who don’t know any better.

  6. illuvitus says:

    The wolves love to call obedience “idolatry”. They have no good arguments, so they hit obedient Christians where it hurts most.

    It isn’t that they don’t have the self-awareness to realize their own pet sins are clear idols. They simply don’t care. The mission isn’t obedience, but slowly forced acceptance of evil.

    The Christian response should be fierce to this. They serve a different father.

  7. The Question says:

    From 2 Peter 2

    “But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. …..They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.[e] 14 With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 15 They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer,[f] who loved the wages of wickedness. 16 But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—an animal without speech—who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.

    17 These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18 For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.”

  8. BJ says:

    I wonder how these folks would feel about modern churches and pastors calling sinners to “repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand”?

    John the Baptist did it (Matthew 3:2)

    Jesus did it (Matthew 4:17)

    Paul did it (Acts 17:30)

    Peter did it (Acts 2:38)

    The whole host of OT prophets did it.

    Being biblical is not popular.

  9. Dale says:

    I notice they use Mark 10, which seems to indicate we will receive the “100 times as much” in this life. In contrast, the Matt 19 passage says the following, putting it into future tense:
    And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

    From the context of Matt 19, I understand that to be a promise for the next life. But Matt 19 does not fit their narrative, so I am not surprised they did not include this passage. An honest approach to Scripture would have included this part of Scripture that contradicts their own message.

    It would be interesting to investigate the wording for Mark 10 more closely, to see if “100 times” is meant to be a promise for this life.

  10. Eidolon says:

    “People have much to lose in coming to Christ”? That’s a foolish and evil thing to say. None of us have anything that matters apart from Christ. We’re dead in sin, we have literally nothing of value to lose.

    Since when is giving up our sin considered loss, for a Christian? Paul called the best things in life worthless when compared to Christ. It’s worth giving up your own family, your own parents, for the sake of Christ, and those who don’t are unworthy of Him.

    Sure, we often perceive giving up things we have to give up as a loss. But ultimately evil is nothing, evil is empty — to be rid of it is to remove a negative.

    These people are on the other side. They don’t think being gay is wrong. They’re trying to bring the Church to accepting gays, this is just the limit of what they think they can get away with right now.

    People who really believe their past behavior was wrong don’t advocate for it, and how it’s not really so bad. At worst they make excuses for why it wasn’t so bad when they did it, they don’t try to convince others that the behavior itself wasn’t a big deal.

  11. Eidolon says:

    @Dale

    I don’t think that interpretation would even make sense. Many of our examples, e.g. Paul, clearly didn’t receive a worldly reward. Why would martyrs be revered? They must have been failures.

    God obviously promised those sorts of things in the world to specific people or groups at specific times (Job, the Israelites when they were being stingy with their sacrifices) but never makes generalized promises of such things.

    If you try to take it that way, you quickly get into “health and wealth” territory. Good Christians should be rich and healthy too, if you want to interpret that passage as worldly success.

  12. Lexet Blog says:

    There is discipleship, and interacting with believers, and then there is inviting people to fold your laundry. Lol.

    Paul warned Timothy to stay away from certain people in his congregation. Exercise prudence.

  13. Jean says:

    Nope. Not even all family members are TRUSTED family members. My home is not a proving ground for a (hopefully) reformed homosexual. If I, as a spiritually strong and mature adult, decide to extend friendship and fellowship to someone struggling with sin, that does not include access to my home and children.

    As children grow, I think they need to be taught about what’s “out there” and what we believe about it and why. Then they can understand how we can be kind to someone without condoning their behavior. If this isn’t done correctly with children, they can come to believe we are OK with Aunt Jane’s behavior with her “friend” OR they can see us as hypocrites who are nice to Aunt Jane’s face but talk about her in private. So children need to be kept from these complex relationships until they can grasp the whole of the issue and understand things from a mature spiritual perspective.

    As an advocate of the home as a shelter from the world, I also have unpopular opinions about fostering children when you have your own still at home, but that’s a topic for another time.

  14. Brian K says:

    It’s not at all creepy that the LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ crowd always demand access to children. It used to be common knowledge that there are exponentially higher rates of pedophilia in that demographic, and that a large percentage of homosexuals “realized” they were homosexual after being raped by an adult homosexual during childhood or adolescence. Now that’s all just more suppressed history. Let the “recruitment” begin.

  15. thedeti says:

    And one of the main points of families giving gays the house key and lowering the drawbridge is to allow gays to define Christian morality, including Christian sexual morality, and thus allowing gays to influence your children.

  16. feministhater says:

    Why yes, open your home, your children’s innocence and your anus to the blessings of the Churchian gays!

    God demands it!

    The answer is no. I don’t force myself on others, I demand they not force themselves on me. Fuck off, gays.

  17. feministhater says:

    Yes, I’m a homophobe, a racist, a sexist piece of trash. I don’t care.

  18. The Question says:

    @ thedeti

    “and thus allowing gays to influence your children.”

    Let’s not kid ourselves; that “influence” involves molesting/abusing/raping them and grooming the next generation through that process. The entire demand to allow gays access to kids only makes sense if that is their goal.

  19. Frank K says:

    Let’s not kid ourselves; that “influence” involves molesting/abusing/raping them and grooming the next generation through that process. The entire demand to allow gays access to kids only makes sense if that is their goal.

    Exactly. Why else would they want access to children?

    And what is breathtaking is that they aren’t even being underhanded, trying to sneak in through the back door. They are demanding full access through the front door. I guess they have learned that they can get whatever they demand, and that any opposition eventually folds.

  20. BillyS says:

    Dale,

    It would be interesting to investigate the wording for Mark 10 more closely, to see if “100 times” is meant to be a promise for this life.

    [Mar 10:29-30 NKJV] 29 So Jesus answered and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My sake and the gospel’s, 30 “who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time–houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions–and in the age to come, eternal life.

    Of course the promise is in this life, with components in the next. Any wiggling to push it all to the next life would have to put persecutions there as well.

    This does not mean we have to welcome these people into our churches however. Nothing here says you will get to work with the youth group (for example) when you repent from homosexual sin. Though I am not sure how much these people are repenting.

    I also wonder how much of this foolishness is built on our incorrect ideas on forgiveness. What is taught and what Jesus said diverge in my experience.

  21. BillyS says:

    Bad close tag, but the final indented part are my comments.

  22. BillyS says:

    Eidolon,

    That promise was made to “whoever” not a limited subset. The core idea of God wanting you to do well in life is completely Biblical. Struggles and persecutions come with that, but we didn’t lose the promises of health and wealth found in the OT.

    The problem lies in not applying things correctly. Dalrock’s post is a good example of that. People apply things wrongly all the time, but that doesn’t negate core principles even if it undermines what people like homosexual advocates claim.

  23. Brian K says:

    Regarding the prosperity gospel, I think it’s time to see some martyrs read Joel Osteen tweets:

  24. thedeti says:

    TheQuestion, Frank:

    Let’s not kid ourselves; that “influence” involves molesting/abusing/raping them and grooming the next generation through that process. The entire demand to allow gays access to kids only makes sense if that is their goal.

    Oh, of course. That’s the gist of this entire argument on behalf of gay Christians.

  25. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    I’ve posted this in a previous thread, but the topic seems appropriate for a repost.

    Next year’s Oscar winner will be Boy Erased, about “bad” Christians who attempt gay conversion therapy on a teenage boy. And, I suppose, the “good” Christians will come to see the error of their ways, with “love triumphing over hate”:

  26. Echo4November says:

    Sounds like the same rationale behind Europeans taking fighting-age youths into their homes.

    We’re moving the ancient boundaries our forefathers had set, starting with female suffrage.

  27. Brief comment: one may think this is unwise, naive, and inappropriate (in that it certainly can give the impression that it holds a man-made law over Christian families by which their Christian piety will be judged) without necessarily attributing bad motives to those who are doing it.

    +Nathan

  28. Frank K says:

    I can’t think of a single reason why having them around children could be considered a positive thing.

    What is interesting is that even hardened criminals serving prison time understand that diddling children is an unforgivable act, and they beat up imprisoned molesters if the opportunity arises. Yet I fear that before I leave this mortal plane, that we’ll be “celebrating” molesters with parades, while the local news anchors smile and say how wonderful it is. I can already see the mass public apologies that will be made by high ranking government officials to those convicted of molestation and placed on offender lists.

    I wonder how long will I be able to stomach this. The problem of course is: where to go? I have the option of going to Hungary, but it has been made plain and clear by the EU powers that they will not stop until they can turn Hungary, Poland other resisters into depraved cesspools.

  29. Crude says:

    Yet I fear that before I leave this mortal plane, that we’ll be “celebrating” molesters with parades, while the local news anchors smile and say how wonderful it is.

    I’ve considered that, in 5-10 years, the hot take on the Catholic Church’s gay sex scandals will be how monstrous it was that people punished priests for expressing their love.

    I wonder how long will I be able to stomach this. The problem of course is: where to go?

    There’s nowhere to go where you won’t have to fight.

    But as the French are finding out – everyone can fight, which is great, since everyone has to.

  30. Frank K says:

    Next year’s Oscar winner will be Boy Erased

    The entertainment industrial complex has been a propaganda arm of the left for decades. I think that last time I paid to see a movie was the latest Star Wars piece of junk. Even the superhero movies are becoming way too propagandishy, plus most are boring, so I’ve skipping those too.

  31. Dalrock says:

    @Frank K

    Let’s not kid ourselves; that “influence” involves molesting/abusing/raping them and grooming the next generation through that process. The entire demand to allow gays access to kids only makes sense if that is their goal.

    Exactly. Why else would they want access to children?

    It really does raise that question. If we assume this is purely innocent, we have to assume that Moore, Allberry, and Butterfield are simply the world’s worst imaginable advocates for an innocent movement. It would be like Harvey Weinstein’s PR agent deciding to send potted plants to all of the influential people in Hollywood in order to get them to think favorably of him.

  32. Jean says:

    @RPL, as a dear oldster at my church puts it, the “good” Christians will love the LBGTQ+ community into hell.

  33. The Question says:

    @Dalrock

    “It really does raise that question.”

    I don’t want to sound like a conspiracy tin-foil hat type guy, but the only logical and rational conclusion I can come up with is that the rot at the top is so bad that if most people found out how bad they would riot like the yellow jackets in France. And the rot is being imposed from the top down by leaders who are hiding their evil with gaslighting tactics. “How dare you even think about possibly thinking that people who engage in degeneracy might have ill intent by wanting to be alone with your children. You need to rethink how you treat others. Oh, and by the way, any of you who want to preserve your nations are evil racists who must be purged from the church and condemned without compassion or mercy, and we have no moral duty to listen to what you have to say because you’re racists, on top of not wanting degenerates to have access to your kids.”

    These people are rationalizing and justifying and excusing evil, because they themselves engage in it.

  34. GW says:

    Hebrews 6:4-6
    “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.”

    The Bible never empathizes with sin. It never excuses it. It never downplays it.

    Those who claim to be saved yet still identify with their sins (using euphemistic acronyms to deceive others) are among those who are crucifying Christ again. Were years of homosexual behavior not enough for the likes of Allberry and Butterfield? Must they divisively subject the church to their perversions and weaken the faith of others as well?

  35. The weirdest thing to me is that they specified “sexually active” LGBTQ. It’s not enough that someone has burdens and temptations, they have to be impenitent if I’m reading that right.

    I can’t imagine the burden that people with that temptation go through. It’s rough. But this whole move doesn’t appear to be about that. It is weird and suspicious.

  36. GW says:

    The whole point is to get you to empathize with sodomites. They want to change your reflexive feelings toward an issue. So if they can drive home how difficult, arduous, painful, burdensome, and challenging having perverted thoughts and/or acting on homosexual desires is; you’ll soften your view on unnatural sexual relations.

    This cannot be stressed enough in today’s generation. Read God’s word. Don’t be captured by your emotion, but test everything you hear against scripture. The Bible does not empathize or excuse sinful thoughts or acts. It unequivocally condemns them, and reserves harsh judgment for transgressors. If the New Testament never softens on sodomy, and in fact doubles down, the church needs to listen. There should be no place for deceivers who attempt to exchange the grace of God into a license for immorality.

  37. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Frank K: I can’t think of a single reason why having them around children could be considered a positive thing.

    The Left will say that being around gay adults will teach children not to hate.

  38. jazzdrive3 says:

    I don’t know. Ironically, one of the most memorable things about ministering to homosexuals that I remember is from Butterfield, where she warns to be very careful. Her reasoning is that sexual sin is inherently predatory. And she’s right.

    Missing from some of the context here is that Butterfield is indeed a truly repentant homosexual. She ended up marrying a pastor and is a homeschooling mom of several children. That’s what homosexual repentance looks like on the outside.

    Are you all saying that you would never, ever invite a homosexual, even a repentant one, into your home for dinner? That doesn’t mean you leave them alone with the kids, which is what Alberry strangely seems to be advocating, which is truly insane.

  39. vfm7916 says:

    There’s a lot of fine analysis (heh) above. Yet I can TL;DR it in one memorable phrase:

    little pig, little pig, let me in…

  40. thedeti says:

    Missing from some of the context here is that Butterfield is indeed a truly repentant homosexual. She ended up marrying a pastor and is a homeschooling mom of several children. That’s what homosexual repentance looks like on the outside.

    Are you all saying that you would never, ever invite a homosexual, even a repentant one, into your home for dinner?

    There’s Christian love and charity; and then there’s embrace and celebration. I’m not being asked to have a repentant homosexual over for dinner. I’m not being asked to share the gospel with them. I’m being told I must give them access to my kids. I’m being told I must let them teach my children, and take care of my children. I’m being told I must submit to them as pastoral and diaconal leadership. I’m being told I must celebrate and embrace their homosexuality because they (say they) are celibate and nonpracticing. I’m being told that I’m not a good Christian if I don’t do these things. And that’s what’s wrong with the picture.

  41. feministhater says:

    Are you all saying that you would never, ever invite a homosexual, even a repentant one, into your home for dinner? That doesn’t mean you leave them alone with the kids, which is what Alberry strangely seems to be advocating, which is truly insane.

    No. I would not invite them into my home. Just as I wouldn’t invite a robber or a rapist or a murderer into my house. Not until they have proven some level of trust that they are indeed repentant and no longer a danger. They or you will not force me to invite danger into my house just because. They will be monitored, restricted and kept on a tight schedule.

    Understand that they will not be with any children whilst I can stop it, they will not be explaining anything to any children whilst I can stop it, they are to get right with Christ at their Church, not to be with children or in homes where people are not willing to allow them to enter.

  42. Crude says:

    jazzdrive3,

    Are you all saying that you would never, ever invite a homosexual, even a repentant one, into your home for dinner? That doesn’t mean you leave them alone with the kids, which is what Alberry strangely seems to be advocating, which is truly insane.

    I get your point, really. There has to be some kind of outreach, right? Something a truly repentant homosexual can do.

    Here’s the problems.

    Butterfield – everything I’ve read of her – puts the entire onus on non-gay Christians. In an era where Christians are constantly, viciously on the attack by LGBT activists, she does nothing to build their confidence to stand up to that assault. The very idea that Christians have a right and duty to protect themselves and their communities from LGBT influence (and that LGBT people and their “allies” necessarily exert this influence) disappears. In fact, she seems preoccupied with the idea that Christians have to bend over backwards sacrificing, befriending, dialoging, discussing, and generally making themselves available to gay people.

    So we’re not just being asked to ‘invite a homosexual to dinner sometime’. Butterfield is expressly saying, your house isn’t your house. It’s a community gathering place where you should be inviting over even atheist gays and talking to them at length and trying to make them feel better and be friends with them.

    It’s extraordinarily burdensome and exploitative.

    These preachers seem altogether reluctant to tell LGBT people, ‘Look, just about every visible LGBT community has been horrific and has done things to intentionally disturb and upset Christians. They are naturally going to be on guard, and in fact they have every right to be on guard.’ And it’s not that it’s unfair to be prejudicial, because these same people will typically admonish Christians that LGBT people have known this or that supposedly hurtful Christian and if LGBT people are supremely hostile to Christians as a result, well, look at it from their perspective.

    Frankly: why is it that people like Butterfield or other ‘ex-gays’ seem to convert, and then spend the near entirety of their time telling Christians how to act? Why isn’t Butterfield telling lesbians ‘Look, you’re routinely morbidly obese, wrapped up in hateful political movements, and miserable. There’s a better way.’? Why isn’t she spending her time telling gay men, ‘You’re prone to drug abuse, relationship abuse, and seem to be racking up the sexual abuse of children too. Something is going wrong with your communities.’?

    And I suspect the answer is, that would be far, far less of a popular message, and not what she signed up for.

  43. NotaBene says:

    @jazzdrive3

    I have no problem having such people over for dinner. This happened just a couple nights ago, repentant, used to struggle with this sin. Our friend and guest.

    What I don’t like is that the agenda here seems to be being extra hospitable (and trusting) to gay people because they are more needy than other folks. Not necessarily true, at all. It’s my job to figure out who is a danger to my family, especially my daughter, and keep such people out. And I’ve made that decision before.

    I think the biblical directive on “practicing hospitality” doesn’t go so far as to circumvent common sense in the protection of your family. And if I have to choose between a needy person and my family’s well-being, yeah, the family wins.

  44. feministhater says:

    It’s my job to figure out who is a danger to my family, especially my daughter…

    Sons don’t matter of course.. lol.

  45. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    SNL comedian kicked out of Columbia U performance for anti-gay joke: https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/12/04/snl-comedian-nimesh-patel-kicked-off-columbia-university-stage-by-offended-students/

    Saturday Night Live writer and comedian Nimesh Patel was kicked off stage by Columbia University students on Friday night halfway through his performance because students found his jokes “offensive.” …

    The students got on stage, took the comedian’s microphone, and denounced his jokes in front of the audience, as first reported by The Columbia Spectator.

    The event was called cultureSHOCK: Reclaim, a charity performance showcase hosted by the university’s Asian American Alliance. The goal of the event was to provide “a platform for a diversity of Asian American artistic expression,” as well as seeking to break through “stereotypes and challenges.”

    I guess “diversity of artistic expression” means limiting artistic expressions.

    According to The Columbia Spectator, members of the student group found Patel’s skit offensive, specifically when the comedian joked that being gay cannot be a choice, adding that if a man is both black and gay, “no one looks in the mirror and thinks, ‘this black thing is too easy, let me just add another thing to it.’” …

    “We deeply apologize for inviting [Patel] in the first place and bringing these comments into a space for inclusion and acceptance,” the student group posted to its Facebook page following the event, “We apologize for the hurt his words caused members of the community.”

    The student group added that members were “still processing” what had happened.

    Students were so emotionally traumatized by his joke that they’re “still processing” what happened? Is hearing a joke akin to being raped or injured in an accident, in that it requires longterm psychological “processing”? Will these students also need therapy to assist in “processing” this traumatic episode in their lives?

  46. Gunner Q says:

    Moore: “As our culture faces a crisis of loneliness, this is the book we need.”

    Social acceptance of homosexuality poisons the well of intimate male friendships. In areas of the world that still put Sodomites to death, the men are willing to hug each other, trust each other and otherwise engage in platonic intimacy. Moore is giving anti-advice to the problem of male loneliness.

    “The book will inspire you and leave you with a notebook filled with ideas for how to practically engage your neighbors with the welcome of the gospel.”

    I would have to learn Spanish, Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean and/or Armenian to “engage my neighbors” because even my sexually normal neighbors don’t consider themselves Americans in America. After half a century of the Russell Moores getting their way, my neighbors are alien to me by every definition. They are not my people, they do not want my honest, independent, productive life, they do not value my culture or even my language, they are international locusts. And the people who do look and talk like me, they race each other to betray me for fun & prizes.

    Obviously, the problem with my society is we haven’t purchased our leaders’ most recent book on “engaging neighbors”.

  47. Paul says:

    @NB @jazzdrive3

    I have no problem having such people over for dinner. This happened just a couple nights ago, repentant, used to struggle with this sin. Our friend and guest.
    I think the biblical directive on “practicing hospitality” doesn’t go so far as to circumvent common sense in the protection of your family. And if I have to choose between a needy person and my family’s well-being, yeah, the family wins.

    I fully agree.

    I have a problem with some of the comments in here:
    1. being homosexual is directly coupled to being pedosexual, or even being predatory. This is simply not true, most certainly not for celibate Christians that have SSA.
    2. being hospitable or inviting people over to dinner, or join in on a family picknick, can be very wholesome for people who are single, and a blessing to them. If you close of your home, how can you be hospitable?
    3. We’re instructed to not even eat with Christians living in gross sin, but the same is not extended to the non-Christians, else it would be impossible to share the gospel with sinners in need of redemption. Having a meal and showing hospitality are excellent ways to share the love of Christ with sinners.

  48. Jim says:

    Sons don’t matter of course.. lol.

    Fathers of daughters are the worst cunt worshipers of all.

  49. Frank K says:

    The Left will say that being around gay adults will teach children not to hate.

    I’m sure all those poor children who were molested don’t hate what was done to them. 😦

  50. DrTorch says:

    It’s no surprise to me that Evangelicals are pushing this. Evangelicals gave up their children to this idolatry long ago, when missionaries foresook raising their children as commanded, and put them in boarding schools. These same missionaries loved to get up front and tell about how much it hurt to see their kids crying for them as they left them behind, “doing God’s work.”

    While they kept it hidden for many decades (like pedophile priests) eventually it came out that schools had abusers on staff. Those kids were crying for several reasons.

    So why wouldn’t current evangelicals keep up this tradition?

  51. feministhater says:

    2. being hospitable or inviting people over to dinner, or join in on a family picknick, can be very wholesome for people who are single, and a blessing to them. If you close of your home, how can you be hospitable?

    Oh sure, closing your home to homos and SJWs is just being inhospitable. Lol!

    Your shame is not going to work, they are never to be invited. Spread the gospel at your Church, out in the world but the home is my space. Fuck off.

  52. feministhater says:

    Once people started demanding Christians accept this and that or face punishment, once #metoo and ratting out became the order of the day, the ability to then enter my home became off limits to only the most trusted people in my life.

  53. DrTorch says:

    Yet I fear that before I leave this mortal plane, that we’ll be “celebrating” molesters with parades,

    Harvey Milk has a Navy ship named after him.

  54. feministhater says:

    Students were so emotionally traumatized by his joke that they’re “still processing” what happened? Is hearing a joke akin to being raped or injured in an accident, in that it requires longterm psychological “processing”? Will these students also need therapy to assist in “processing” this traumatic episode in their lives?

    Yep, you better invite them to dinner though and spread the Gospel. I’m sure they’ll still be busy ‘processing’ the word of the Lord, whilst you have been kicked out of your home and the police apologise to the world for allowing you to have lived in your own home for so long….

  55. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Gunner Q: Social acceptance of homosexuality poisons the well of intimate male friendships.

    Film critics freely toss about the word “homoerotic.” Any film that has tough men spending time together in close quarters (soldiers, cops, gangsters, cowboys, etc.) is often described as “homoerotic.” Films featuring tough heroes stripped to their waist (e.g., Sean Connery in some James Bond films) are often described as “homoerotic.”

    Critics write as if some objective eroticism is occurring onscreen, instead of the critic projecting his own fantasies onto the scene.

    It’s also another way to normalize “homoeroticism.” The idea that any time rough men engage in a hard adventure (even in the real world), there must be some homoerotic desires circulating among them. If you don’t see it, you must be homophobic, which means you’re gay.

  56. Pingback: The guard in the tower shouts “Lower the drawbridge and unbolt the door!” | Reaction Times

  57. Brian K says:

    @Paul The shaming language is pretty lame. No, not all homosexuals are pedophiles, but there is a disproportionate amount of pedophilia in that demographic. Are you not familiar with the “bear and twink” phenomenon, in which barely legal homosexuals deliberately look as young as possible to attract men twice their age? Any grown man who shows an inordinate amount of interest in unrelated children is suspect. Any grown man who would feel deprived by not having access to those children has something sinister going on.

  58. Time to stock up on yellow vests, guys.

    https://imgur.com/ItiKohv

  59. 7817 says:

    @Paul

    “I have a problem with some of the comments in here:
    1. being homosexual is directly coupled to being pedosexual, or even being predatory. This is simply not true, most certainly not for celibate Christians that have SSA.”

    Hello wolf in sheep’s clothing.

    “3. We’re instructed to not even eat with Christians living in gross sin, but the same is not extended to the non-Christians, else it would be impossible to share the gospel with sinners in need of redemption. Having a meal and showing hospitality are excellent ways to share the love of Christ with sinners.”

    They claim to be Christians. This group of people is exactly what the verse is talking about. With such people do not even eat.

    You have twisted the verse around backwards. Stop being a homo-apologist and pedo-apologist.

  60. Spike says:

    Just a message to all and anyone who thinks homosexuality / same sex attraction is ”unchosen”, do the following:
    Go to Google. Type in ”Genetic basis of homosexuality” and look.

    You will find nothing of substance.

    After 40+ years of looking, scientific researchers have found NO evidence of a gay gene. The only publication was a study performed on gay males in 1989, where post-mortem examination of gay men who had dies of AIDS has a hypothalamus that was a few cubic millimetres smaller. A subsequent, larger sample sized and controlled study, consisting of post-mortems of gay men who had not dies of AIDS but of some other illnesses, found that the hypothalamus was not smaller. It is also known that HIV infects the brain, probably causing the hypothalamus to shrink.

    The satanic media only ever refers to the original study, not the latter.

    As for the LGBTIQ assault on evangelical churches, it’s because liberal churches have hollowed out. Evangelicals had grown and now gay activists want a slice of the action. Any useful idiots like Allbery need to be exposed as the frauds they are. ”With such a man, do not even eat.”

  61. 7817 says:

    As far as the Doug Wilson article linked by Heidi, above: Doug Wilson’s writing has similarities to Jordan Peterson. When you read it, if you are not thinking about what he is saying, it looks like he is saying things you agree with.

    This, coupled with the normal reaction of Wilson fans to criticism, makes me quite suspicious of the man.

    I was a fan of both Wilson and Peterson when I first started reading them but not anymore.

    In fact, it looks like they both serve a similar purpose as gatekeepers to keep people within the accepted range of discourse, and from wandering off to far in considering ideas unwelcome to the mainstream.

  62. feministhater says:

    In fact, it looks like they both serve a similar purpose as gatekeepers to keep people within the accepted range of discourse, and from wandering off to far in considering ideas unwelcome to the mainstream.

    Bingo, they’re there to represent the opposing view points within a defined range of acceptability so that in reality, absolutely nothing changes and the progression of liberalism rolls forward. They act as the trap to capture the people fleeing from the damage caused by progressivism and to stem the flow towards the true opposite end of the spectrum.

    In essence they waste your energy by providing you with no defining goals, no real push back but instead suck you dry of resources and time.

  63. BillyS says:

    Paul is harsh on Christians, but soft and fluffy on others.

    We are told to do well to all men, especially those in the household of faith. What is Paul suppressing that makes him so hostile?

  64. Usury kills says:

    Biblically speaking; these people are in a spell. They are greatly deceived. My Pastor always used to say “The hardest place to find truth is in modern day churches. We have more churches in America than ever before. There is more sin in America than ever before”. This was 15 years ago. I didn’t understand the spiritual battle at the time but, he was spot on!

  65. Lynn Belvedere says:

    Any film that has tough men spending time together in close quarters (soldiers, cops, gangsters, cowboys, etc.) is often described as “homoerotic.”

    Ann Althouse on that subject…

    Dawidoff notes that players and coaches spend lots of time together, much of it in small rooms. “It really is intimate.” They like this close association and speak of mutual love. He leaps from that brotherly love to sexual love: “The very nature of football, focused as it is on strength, virility, grace and manly bonding, has an obvious homoerotic component for those who play and for those who watch.”

    The word “obvious” is supposed to keep you from seeing what to me is obvious, that he swapped one kind of love for another. Eros for philia.

  66. Tim Pollard says:

    @Paul:

    > 1. being homosexual is directly coupled to being pedosexual, or even being predatory. This is simply not true, most certainly not for celibate Christians that have SSA.

    Which is why it’s called NAMGLA (North American Man-Girl Love Association) — oh, wait no it’s not.

  67. anonymous_ng says:

    @Frank K I wonder how long will I be able to stomach this. The problem of course is: where to go? I have the option of going to Hungary, but it has been made plain and clear by the EU powers that they will not stop until they can turn Hungary, Poland other resisters into depraved cesspools.

    Frank, I would like to talk to you offline about Hungary, if you are OK with this, Dalrock can put us in touch.

  68. Paul says:

    @7817

    They claim to be Christians. This group of people is exactly what the verse is talking about. With such people do not even eat.

    You have twisted the verse around backwards. Stop being a homo-apologist and pedo-apologist.

    I have not twisted any verse, nor am I an apologist for homosexual or pedosexual behavior at all, on the contrary, I have condemned it. If you read carefully I was exactly speaking about being hospital even to sinners (and I also noted that you should exercise proper judgment and don’t endanger your family), but that we’re commanded to not even eat with known Christians living in gross sin. And I mentioned I don’t consider having SSA to be in itself sin. Do you think SSA is in itself sin?

  69. 7817 says:

    “And I mentioned I don’t consider having SSA to be in itself sin. Do you think SSA is in itself sin?”

    It doesn’t matter whether you or I consider it a sin. Our opinion is meaningless. The Bible says the effeminate will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Whether that means SSA, acting girly, or actual sodomy is not for me to decide.

    If someone is SSA they need to turn to God and not allow those thoughts to dominate their minds, and ask God for help to redirect their thoughts away from harboring lust.

    Writing books about being SSA is the opppsite of this, it is allowing themselves to be defined by and consumed by their sin. These people are ones we shouldn’t even share a meal with, they are the ones I’m talking about.

    And I wouldn’t bring former homosexuals into my home to share a meal, if they are truly “former” then they won’t try to get access to children even at church and won’t make a big deal about their prior sinful status, as they will be trying to walk in repentance.

    Eating together at church would be sufficient.

    As to your claim that all homosexuals are not pedophiles, all I can say is you are naive to assume that the two are not correlated. Stop being suckered by fake news.

  70. Sharkly says:

    “The hardest place to find truth is in modern day churches. We have more churches in America than ever before. There is more sin in America than ever before”.

    The hireling thieves promise to teach God’s gospel: God’s Way, God’s Truth, and God’s Life, they take money given to God, promising to teach His Word in order to earn it. But they are ashamed of God’s Word, so they invert it and teach the opposite. They temporarily “rob God” of money they never earn, doing work counter to God’s will to be glorified through the truth.

    Genesis 2:7 then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature. 8 And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed.
    Genesis 2:15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.
    Genesis 2:18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.”
    False teachers teach the opposite, that men should serve their wives, and be “servant-leaders” as though the man was created for the wife to serve her, when man was created and given his purpose, to dress and to keep what God had created, before the woman was taken out of him, made, and given to him as a helper and mate, fashioned by God to be suitable to her husband. God the Father gave the first bride away. Satan and his thieves deceive women, who were God’s gift of a helper and mate to man, to become a liability and a burden to men instead.
    Meanwhile God reminded us:
    1 Corinthians 11:7 For a man ought not to cover his head,[when conversing with God] since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. 9 Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

    Obeying his deceived wife instead of God, is what got the first man and the world cursed and continues to anger our Jealous God.(Exodus 34:14) We are unfaithful to God, our creator, when we tend to our satanically deceived wife’s desires ahead of God’s desired purpose for creating us, uniquely for our individual role in this world, and like other men(in God’s image) for our collective role. “Wife worship” was Adam’s original sin. Thus the first commandment is to have no other gods before God.
    Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
    Matthew 22:35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment.
    The evil churchian hirelings, who falsely teach kooky cunt worship to their flock, are serving the devil, and falsely teaching men to put their wives in God’s place, each fearing her displeasure, as though her cunt tingles will be their eternal judge. Fear God instead, and flee from their evil idolatry. The fear of man is a snare, the fear of women only brings on their contempt. The worship of women, a blasphemy against God and His image in man, is paid for with eternal damnation. Women who do not obey their husbands, which they should do, in everything, as unto the Lord, will go to hell for that disobedience to God, if they are not genuinely repentant of it. That is what needs to be preached right now.

  71. Sharkly says:

    Do you think SSA is in itself sin?

    Yes!
    Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagining of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
    Proverbs 15:26 The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the Lord,
    but gracious words are pure.

    Same Sex Attraction is abominable, and those evil thoughts should be put out of one’s mind, and repented from.
    “Brotherly love” is good, Brotherly sexual attraction is evil.
    Faggotry is a vile abomination and a blasphemy against the image and glory of God in man.
    Lesbianism is vile and an unnatural affection also, God’s word tells us that.

  72. Paul says:

    @7818

    “And I mentioned I don’t consider having SSA to be in itself sin. Do you think SSA is in itself sin?”

    It doesn’t matter whether you or I consider it a sin.

    Well, it does matter a lot, because the church is called to judge (serious) sin among its members. You think it is sin (“Writing books about being SSA is the opppsite of this, it is allowing themselves to be defined by and consumed by their sin.”). You even refuse to share a meal in your home with Christians who used to be homosexual. Which I think is not the right attitude.

    I think we should support people who struggle with SSA. And I agree that includes helping them to properly deal with these feelings. If people want to write about that to help others to overcome that struggle, I support that. I don’t support ANY activity that promotes SSA as being “healthy” or “celebrated”, or, worse, promotes a homosexual lifestyle that includes homosex.

  73. JRob says:

    Perhaps homosexuals are prophets sent by God to stop our idolatry!
    This is a point put forward during Revoice, according to Todd Pruitt.
    http://www.alliancenet.org/mos/1517/revoice-and-gods-design-for-the-family#.XAkKbqBME0M

    Here’s the crux. So you can skip all the Revoice pandering:
    One of the troubling statements which came out of Revoice was that the “nuclear family” has become an idol in the church. In his plenary address, Nate Collins made the following rather extraordinary statement:

    Is it possible that gay people today are being sent by God, like Jeremiah, to find God’s words for the church, to eat them and make them our own? To shed light on contemporary false teachings and even idolatries, not just the false teaching of the progressive sexual ethic, but other more subtle forms of false teaching? Is it possible that gender and sexual minorities who have lived lives of costly obedience are themselves a prophetic call to the church to abandon idolatrous attitudes toward the nuclear family, toward sexual pleasure? If so, we are prophets.

    I understand the Alliance is a vehicle for feminist apologetics; Aimee Byrd is featured there. Perusal can help one spot trends sometimes.

    The building block of society, created and ordained by God, is now idolatrous.

  74. Name (required) says:

    My thought is that we are not called to convict anyone of sin, nor to win anyone to God. Both jobs belong to the Holy Spirit. Therefore, we should neither drive people away nor lure them in. We should only speak the plain truth that God left us in His bible, and let the Holy Spirit do the convicting and calling. Therefore, we should NOT be gay-friendly, LBTQWERTY-accepting, nor anything of the sort. Unrepentant sinners, e.g. those who identify as sexual perverts or as murderers, should be very uncomfortable in our churches. The sermons and the socializing after should both reinforce that discomfort.

    When a Christian hears “I am gay,” he should react the same way he would react to “I am a murderer” or “I am a rapist.” We should never accept sin, and never accept an openly unrepentant sinner.

    Thoughts?

  75. Name (required) says:

    “Go to Google. Type in ”Genetic basis of homosexuality” and look.

    You will find nothing of substance.”

    It is common for sexually abused boys to turn into homosexual men. If homosexuality were genetic, that correlation would not exist.

  76. Name (required) says:

    “my normal neighbors don’t consider themselves Americans in America. After half a century of the Russell Moores getting their way, my neighbors are alien to me byy every definition. They are not my people, they do not want my honest, independent, productive life, they do not value my culture or even my language, they are international locusts.”

    They aren’t your neighbors, either. Read the parable about the Good Samaritan. The neighbor is the one who shows love to you. Those near-dwellers aren’t neighbors to you by the definition Jesus gave. They are not part of our nation, and citizenship doesn’t change that.

  77. Name (required) says:

    “I get your point, really.
    1) There has to be some kind of outreach, rightc?
    2) Something a truly repentant homosexual can do.”

    Right on (1): God’s Holy Spirit can reach out and draw them in.
    Wrong on (2): the truely repentant _former_ homo isn’t the salvation fairy, let alone God’s Holy Spirit. He needs to live out the truth in public, just as every other Christian must. Be there when someone repents. Don’t accomodate anyone’s sin.

    Anyone in North America who hasn’t heard the gosple has had his fingers in his ears and his eyes firmly shut. We should speak it and live it, but we have no business trying to lure others with a desecrated, watered down version of the gosple.

  78. info says:

    Name(Required)
    ”We should speak it and live it, but we have no business trying to lure others with a desecrated, watered down version of the gospel”

    I believe watering down the Gospel is akin to the profane fire offered by Nadab and Abihu. For such sacrilege God put them to death. For he is to be regarded as Holy. And in the sight of all he is to be honored.(Leviticus 10:1-3)

    He that preaches another gospel let him be anathema(Galatians 1:8) for such is the nature of the watered down Gospel.

    This is how the Gospel is summed up I think:

    “Fear God and give Him glory, Worship the One who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and the springs of waters.”… Paraphrase of (Revelation 14:6-7)

  79. Paul says:

    @Jrob

    Is it possible that gender and sexual minorities who have lived lives of costly obedience are themselves a prophetic call to the church to abandon idolatrous attitudes toward the nuclear family, toward sexual pleasure?

    Yes it is!
    A prophetic call to stop breaking the nuclear family by divorce.
    A prophetic call to stop breaking the nuclear family by allowing homosexuals to enter a state-endorsed relationship and call it “marriage”.
    A prophetic call to all who are having sex outside marriage to abandon such practice.
    A prophetic call to man and woman to offer authority over their bodies to their rightful spouse.
    A prophetic call for man and woman to rediscover their God-given roles.

  80. JRob says:

    @Paul
    That’s the entire point. Your list is twisted to mean the opposite by the infiltration of all things “evangelical.” The battle flag is carried by rebellious women and their male supporters/protectors.

    Take the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals. Here’s their mission statement:

    Mission

    The Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is a coalition of pastors, scholars, and churchmen who hold the historic creeds and confessions of the Reformed faith and who proclaim biblical doctrine in order to foster a Reformed awakening in today’s Church.

    Read the Cambridge Declaration. Sounds great! The Five Solas!

    Then we go to the Alliance site, their MOS blog, and what ho! Featured articles by feminists and their partisans. If you can stomach, read the linked article after first reading the New English Review piece she attempts to rebut with her hamsterblithering:

    http://www.alliancenet.org/mos/housewife-theologian/a-response-to-anthony-esolen-regarding-women-and-hysteria#.XAk6f6BME0M

    Be sure to read the last comment.

    If this organization is the standard bearer if the Reformed faith, and the PTB allow such writers there, then cue the remnant.

  81. 7817 says:

    @Paul:

    “Well, it does matter a lot, because the church is called to judge (serious) sin among its members. You think it is sin (“Writing books about being SSA is the opppsite of this, it is allowing themselves to be defined by and consumed by their sin.”). You even refuse to share a meal in your home with Christians who used to be homosexual. Which I think is not the right attitude.”

    Your foundation is faulty. The point, which you managed to completely miss, is that God is the decider of what is sin or is not sin. We can’t judge on the basis of how we feel about these issues, but instead need to align ourselves with God’s truth.

    I believe homosexuals can be saved because Paul says they can, but they have to bear fruit in keeping with repentance. If a gey person chooses to continue to identify as SSA and celebrate that identity by writing books which open the door for non repentant homosexuals to come into the homes of Chriatians, they are acting as an enemy of the church.

    Your concern about my attitude is meaningless because your moral compass is misaligned.

    Stop worshipping the idol of Be Nice.

  82. Name (required) says:

    Info, I might sum up the gosple with Acts 2:38
    Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

  83. I recommend Rev. Shawn Mathis’ assessment of Allberry and Moore, et al. Like the rest of Western Civilization’s institutions, both the Southern Baptist Convention and the Anglican church are in deep decline. These institutions still want a place at the table, so they try to remain relevant through compromise. Protestantism has been compromising for at least 100 years. How’s that working?

  84. @Dalrock,
    I first mistook ELRC for ELCA, a Lutheran denomination with its own sorry track record. And to that end I recalled a piece from 2009. (It’s by John Piper, but in one of his better moments: I wouldn’t discount it entirely based on later error or swallow that error because this bit’s good).
    https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/the-tornado-the-lutherans-and-homosexuality

  85. info says:

    @Name
    ”Info, I might sum up the gosple with Acts 2:38
    Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

    Agreed.

  86. info says:

    @Name

    I would like to add that Nadab and Abihu deliberately messed up the means of atonement by their use of profane fire.

    And the watering down of the Gospel is akin to closing the way to Atonement on all who believes in that watered down Gospel.

  87. Paul says:

    @JRob The battle flag is carried by rebellious women and their male supporters/protectors.

    Exactly, that’s why it should be a prophetic wake-up call for all men of good faith!

  88. Paul says:

    @7818 If a gey person chooses to continue to identify as SSA and celebrate that identity

    And you keep on misrepresenting my points. I explicitly mentioned
    I don’t support ANY activity that promotes SSA as being “healthy” or “celebrated”
    yet you are responding as if do. I don’t want to spent my energy into that.

  89. 7817 says:

    @Paul

    You said:
    “I have a problem with some of the comments in here:
    1. being homosexual is directly coupled to being pedosexual, or even being predatory. This is simply not true, most certainly not for celibate Christians that have SSA.”

    People who have SSA have disordered, unnatural desires. To act like SSA is a special status, or is anything other than a perverted lust, would be accepting way that Butterfield and Allbery are framing the issue. This is surrender from the start.

    This is why I pointed out that you are (perhaps unknowingly) acting as a homo apologist.

    The reason I pointed out that you are acting as a pedo apologist is that you have accepted the gey lobbies framing of this issue as well, that the 2 are not linked, when it is clear that they are. http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles/DaileyHomosexualAbuse.php

  90. jacopo says:

    A non-family member wanting to tuck your child into bed is a major red flag.

  91. Paul says:

    @7817
    Even in your rebuttal, you fail to make your point based on my actual statements. I’ll leave it that.

  92. PokeSalad says:

    Are you all saying that you would never, ever invite a homosexual, even a repentant one, into your home for dinner?

    Ah, the ever-popular “false choice” stratagem, inventing a position that the opponent never advocated, in order to move the goalposts.

    Fine attempt, sir.

  93. Pingback: Chandler: Every Christian should have a gay friend. | Dalrock

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