Weak men are screwing #MeToo up.

Dalrock’s Law of Feminism:  Feminism is the assertion that men are evil and naturally want to harm women, followed by pleas to men to solve all of women’s problems.

Via Larry Kummer at Fabius Maximus:  More triumphs of feminism. Are male executives scared?

A few weeks ago Instapundit reader TDW best captured the feminist outrage at the entirely predictable consequences of #MeToo:

“How dare you protect yourself against our future unjustified allegations!”

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This entry was posted in #MeToo, Dalrock’s Law of Feminism, Fabius Maximus, Instapundit, Larry Kummer, Men's Sphere Humor, Ugly Feminists, Weak men screwing feminism up. Bookmark the permalink.

177 Responses to Weak men are screwing #MeToo up.

  1. The Question says:

    The intensely hostile reaction to VP Pence’s policy regarding no dinner dates with women or being alone with women tells you everything you need to know about this “movement.” It has nothing to do with protecting women. It has everything to do with placing men in a position where they can be falsely accused of #MeToo whenever women wish to do so. It is the latest version of the threatpoint or Sword of Damocles that even if never utilized by women still allows them to control the men in question by its mere existence.

    Notice also they never provide specific examples of how men can protect themselves from a false accusation. Instead, we hear “if men can’t tell the difference, then that’s a problem.” They never concede that women might lie; it’s always #BelieveHer.

    Just wait until they box these men into a corner by making it “discriminatory” for them not to mentor these women.

  2. Keith says:

    I am not militantly clueless.

  3. Sharkly says:

    Why would you need to mentor somebody who has the benefit of Affirmative Action?

    Stop hiring women. AI says so!

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  5. Anon says:

    Stop hiring women. AI says so!

    Indeed. It will be less of women being specifically identified for layoffs, and more that new, small businesses will form that have high revenue with very few employees (with AI doing most of the work). They will form and grow without ever hiring women at all.

    Think of three guys running a $10M/year business, with AI doing the work previously done by 47 other humans (some of whom were women).

  6. Anonymous Reader says:

    the Question
    The intensely hostile reaction to VP Pence’s policy regarding no dinner dates with women or being alone with women tells you everything you need to know about this “movement.”

    A couple of years back there was a steady drip of articles in the various church-oriented publications from women fussing about men who insisted on the Billy Graham / Mike Pence rule. One in particular was funny, a woman was complaining about a man who chose to walk a mile or so across a college campus rather than accept a ride with her; she was offended that he did not trust her.

    #MeToo and #ChurchToo seems to have muted that a bit. But I expect it to resurface once #MentorHer gets some momentum. So we’ll have conservative feminist churchwomen insisting that men should put themselves at risk, by explicitly ignoring common sense and even some Bible quotes, because “I’m your sister! Trust me!” or something similar.

    I wonder how many women would regard a basic approach on the order of “Nice day. Can you tell me where the [something public] is?” as harassment. How many of those same women are pining for a man?

    #WantMyFriedIceNow

  7. Anonymous Reader says:

    Sharkley
    Stop hiring women. AI says so!

    That AI has been shut down. The new one is being correctly retrained…

  8. Damn Crackers says:

    I’ve said it before. Feminism has done more harm to the West than the Nazis ever did.

  9. John Calvin’s Periodontist says:

    I am an ordinary, white collar man, and no one has ever mentored me, or considered it.

    Welcome to my world, “ladies”.

  10. Anonymous Reader says:

    Wedding photog in need of mentoring.

    https://petapixel.com/2018/11/27/wedding-photographer-had-sex-with-a-guest-and-peed-on-a-tree-sheriff/

    As soon as she gets out of jail.

  11. Damn Crackers says:

    @toocrazy2yoo – From the article:

    “We are fighting against a literal reading of the texts,” Parmentier said, pointing for instance to letters sent by Saint Paul to nascent Christian communities.

    Reading passages from those letters, which could easily be construed as radically anti-feminist, as instructions for how women should be treated today is insane, she said.

    “It’s like taking a letter someone sends to give advice as being valid for all eternity.”

    There you go fellow Christians! We should throw out everything in the NT except the four Gospels, Acts, and Revelation.

  12. American says:

    I see females in work environments as self-serving robots which I’m forced to compete against for limited resources and promotions. I would never “mentor” one of them to help them compete against me, help them to get promoted over me. I’m not that conflicted inside, not that stupid.

    In my observations, females never miss an opportunity to transcend their “mentor” and then stab him in the back and if they can’t transcend him: stab him in the back anyways. It’s a lose/lose for males. The females gossip and politic against him with others and even levy false allegations with human resources on occasion. Sure, why not. They’re never held accountable for their false allegations, it spreads fear helping females to subjugate males, and ultimately gets them traction in the world of political correctness.

  13. thedeti says:

    Anon Reader:

    I wonder how many women would regard a basic approach on the order of “Nice day. Can you tell me where the [something public] is?” as harassment. How many of those same women are pining for a man?

    Of course they’ll see it as harassment. According to a recent poll, 30% of polled women say that if a man she’s not attracted to asks her out for drinks, he has “harassed” her.

    In a very short span, we’ve gone from “No thanks, not interested” to “you are harassing me”. The next step is “men I am not attracted to are not allowed to interact with me”. Women are demanding the right to never have to talk to or interact with unattractive men. Women are demanding the right to be free from even seeing or observing any men other than men they are sexually attracted to and want sex with.

  14. TMAC says:

    “Does this body camera and recording device make me look fat?”

  15. Anonymous Reader says:

    Google’s gmail has an autocomplete feature introduced last May that is an example of machine “learning”. It has been modified to block the pronouns “his” and her”. Other examples from other companies are found in the article. Reality can be messy…

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alphabet-google-ai-gender/fearful-of-bias-google-blocks-gender-based-pronouns-from-new-ai-tool-idUSKCN1NW0EF

  16. Novaseeker says:

    I’m equal opportunity in this area — I don’t mentor people in general. I mean if someone comes to me with a question I will help out a bit, but I don’t take people under my wing and mentor them — men or women.

  17. JRob says:

    And…the government should now step in to help the mentor bereft be safe from incels.
    https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/11/why-the-government-should-fund-research-on-incel-culture/

    I enjoy the “cause and effect/cognitive dissonance. ” discussions from the resident heavy hitters here. Keep up the good work men.

  18. Jim says:

    There you go fellow Christians! We should throw out everything in the NT except the four Gospels, Acts, and Revelation.

    Well of course. The Almighty Cunt said so right? Don’t you know The Cunt is greater than God? /s

  19. toocrazy2yoo says:

    Best not to help with flat tires, jumper cables, hold doors, involve yourself NOT with women you don’t know, and NEVER at work, for anything. Chivalry is dead, the women think it’s creepy and really, it’s a pain in the ass anyway. Let em call the auto club, open their own doors and live a cold, unloved and unassisted existence at work without so much as a good morning. Even THAT is risky.

  20. toocrazy2yoo says:

    Damn Crackers: Thanks. Agreed. Meh, I’m not even a layman, but the whole of the feminist-in-the-church movement is about women escaping their responsibilities while doubling down the men’s complete with divorce threat points. Well, that’s tyranny. And they have the nerve to demand men sign up for marriage today? The men in the feminist church movement are the most sickening to me. They sell out the interests of their fellow men to look good to the women, to feel good, popular, PC, whatever they get, it’s gender treason to me. Without gender treason, there’d be no feminism. But then again, what do I know?

  21. feministhater says:

    Lol! I love this ‘weak men’ meme! Oh boy, women can do everything for themselves with heels on…. teehee..

    Well…. go ahead and do the work yourselves then cupcakes, you don’t need men to take you by the hands and lead, do you?

    When they complain men are not hiring them or mentoring them, the only response should be that women don’t need men.

  22. toocrazy2yoo says:

    On the InSight landing on Mars, out of dozens present, I noticed about two women in the whole control room and NO dark, Hidden Figures. Only nerdy White men. Because without 3 high school graduate-level Black women doing all the math and a full quota of feminist EEOC hires doing whatever they can do, how on EARTH, or Mars, did they accomplish this technological feat? Has JPL gone Meritocracy on us?

  23. Jonadab-the-Rechabite says:

    A man needs to mentor a woman like a bicycle needs a gold fish.

  24. Anon says:

    Women are demanding the right to never have to talk to or interact with unattractive men. Women are demanding the right to be free from even seeing or observing any men other than men they are sexually attracted to and want sex with.

    This is stunning when you consider that women are only attracted to about 20% of men, and those men, by definition, will not be those who have spent 10+ years in a corporate workplace setting (where you get trained in obedient, compliant, beta behavior that may be good for productivity, but what women have failed to evolve to like).

    Note that the equivalent male demand would be an income tax rate of just 5%, with none going to any entitlement programs or make-work jobs. What women are demanding is exactly what this would be if men demanded the equivalent.

  25. Anon says:

    The Question,

    Notice also they never provide specific examples of how men can protect themselves from a false accusation. Instead, we hear “if men can’t tell the difference, then that’s a problem.” They never concede that women might lie; it’s always #BelieveHer.

    Remember that women don’t understand how women think. You can say this to a woman’s face with surprisingly little outrage.

  26. Otto Lamp says:

    “…the whole of the feminist-in-the-church movement…The men in the feminist church movement are the most sickening to me. They sell out the interests of their fellow men to look good to the women…”

    This would make an interesting cross reference to the previous “THOT audit” story, which had similar complaints about thirsty/white-knight men taking the THOT side in order to look good to women.

    In reality, I suppose just about every feminist undertaking survives due to the support of thirsty/white-knight men trying to make themselves look good to women.

    We really need a name for them.

  27. Burner Prime says:

    This is very old news, almost a year old, and #MentorHer feed is full of memes already pointing out the stupidity of falling for this.

  28. Burner Prime says:

    If you all want material to write about for weeks, check out this site:
    https://shebreaksthemold.com/episode-15-women-need-mentors-not-rescuers-with-david-smith-phd-co-author-of-athena-rising/

    The overall these is bias is everywhere, even in and especially in meritocracies. Another claim is that stereotypes and assumptions are more often wrong than right. This claim is absurd, otherwise it means evolution made a massive error instilling this evaluation short-cut into our DNA.

  29. Burner Prime says:

    The Lean-In site details a survey showing male managers hesitating to be alone with women in the workplace among other fears. (Pence Rule is right) The sentiment has doubled since #MeToo. But the site says NOTHING about how to address or remedy the fear. Just points it out as a sad fact, like, “stupid men still just don’t get it, sigh…”
    https://leanin.org/sexual-harassment-backlash-survey-results

  30. A.B. Prosper says:

    Anon @12:37

    That A.I will effectively and forever vote Democrat or Socialist , but I repeat myself

    The reason is simple, lay enough people off and lower wages enough and people stop marrying, stop having families and rationally vote themselves benefits as we see them doing right now. In modernity which is at least 80% urban now intact families requires stable long term employment prospects and can’t be bought with “free” social capital from religion anywhere at any time

    If you don’t want the Commies in charge, private sector jobs better get plentiful and be stable fast or in a few years we’ll all be eating government cheese with our national health care

  31. TheWanderer says:

    This just in, now the FI has their own BIBLE!
    https://www.france24.com/en/20181127-metoo-era-theologians-publish-womens-bible

    Why not just call Feminism what it is, a cult religion. Too obvious?

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  33. Darwinian Arminian says:

    @Anonymous Reader
    “#MeToo and #ChurchToo seems to have muted that a bit. But I expect it to resurface once #MentorHer gets some momentum. So we’ll have conservative feminist churchwomen insisting that men should put themselves at risk, by explicitly ignoring common sense and even some Bible quotes, because “I’m your sister! Trust me!” or something similar.”

    No need to wait, that project is already under way. In fact, this summer gave us an example already, as one woman started hawking a new book she’d just written rebuking men on the church for avoiding their sisters out of a misguided concern for “purity.” But don’t worry! The author is a “conservative” who attends a church that holds to the classical teachings of Reformed Calvinism, so there shouldn’t be any danger that she’s promoting the feminine imperative over Christianity . . . .

    . . . Or something like that.

    There was one good piece of news that came out this: In spite of the fact that the modern church is producing an abundance of feminist women, it’s also still capable of producing a few shitlords too. None of them in the pastorate, sadly — but we’ll take what we can get!

  34. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Over 20 years ago I made the mistake of white knighting, by agreeing to give a woman a ride home.

    I was walking across the UCLA campus late one night, on my way to the garage. A woman came beside me, and started talking, being friendly. She asked me where I lived, then revealed that she also lived on the Westside, and needed a ride home. She asked if I could just drive her as far as a bus stop on Lincoln Blvd.

    She looked to be in her 40s, but with heavy makeup and overly youthful clothes. She looked like Baby Jane, from the movie. I didn’t really want to drive her to Lincoln, but it was on my way, and I was very Blue Pill. It seemed wrong to leave a woman stranded on campus at night.

    As we drove along Sunset Blvd., she began freaking out at every curve. She implored me to slow down. She said she’d been in a car accident and still had fears of fast driving and curves. I was driving the speed limit, but she was freaking. It occurred to me that she might be crazy. Although this was only the 1990s, I began to worry if she might make crazy accusations against me.

    She began asking personal questions, about where I lived and such. She wanted to know if we could stop for drinks at a bar. I said I was tired and wanted to go home. She asked if she could sleep over at my place. I didn’t want that, but I didn’t want to say no and risk angering her, so instead I suggested that yes, we should have drinks first.

    She suggested a club in the Marina, which was near where she allegedly lived. When I got there, I told her I’d changed my mind, but hey, I’d driven her home (almost). She asked if she could borrow $10, so I gave it to her. She asked if she could borrow more, but I said no. I lied and said it was all I had. She asked for my name and number, so she could repay me. I gave her a false name and number. She finally exited with my money.

    A True Blue Pill Story about me White Knighting for a Baby Jane lookalike. But I think I got off easy. Only $10 and an hour out of my life.

  35. Anonymous Reader says:

    Burner Prime
    The overall these is bias is everywhere, even in and especially in meritocracies.

    SJW’s in the open source software world are working hard to kill the very idea of “meritocracy”, because “meritocracy” is inherently full of “ism”. At least one of the SJW’s pushing a concept of “post meritocracy” is an MtF trans. That seems to be a pattern.

  36. Anonymous Reader says:

    Darwinian Arminian
    No need to wait, that project is already under way.

    Aimee Bird is one of the women I was referring to above, but I didn’t know her book project was actually a real thing. I read an article by her some time ago and kept wanting to say “Look, Let’s Just Be Friends, ok?” to her. Because she’s one of those conservative feminists who really, really wants to Just Be One Of The Guys by my reading. It frustrates her that there are any Boys Only spaces.

    Nice trolling by “Blue Check Christian”, too.

  37. David J. says:

    @Darwinian: Interestingly, Doug Wilson did a series disagreeing with Aimee Byrd, chapter by chapter.

    https://dougwils.com/books-and-culture/s7-engaging-the-culture/when-aimee-met-harry-and-sally.html

  38. Paul says:

    “Tired of seeing their holy texts used to justify the subjugation of women, a group of feminist theologians from across the Protestant-Catholic divide have joined forces?”

    “We are fighting against a literal reading of the texts,” Parmentier said, pointing for instance to letters sent by Saint Paul to nascent Christian communities. Reading passages from those letters, which could easily be construed as radically anti-feminist, as instructions for how women should be treated today is insane, she said.”

    This is fantastic news and should be printed in bold in all the Christian RPL blogs!

    This is DIRECT admission by the fine-fleur of feminist theologians across Protestant and RCC churches, that the literal reading of the texts of the apostle Paul ARE indeed ANTI-feminist, and his prescribed treatment of woman is according to feminists ‘insane’.

    They furthermore admit, the only way to NOT have to adhere to Paul’s instructions, is to construct a theology where ALL of Paul’s ‘offending’ instructions HAVE to been seen as contemporary ONLY.

    Show this to all your favorite Christian brethren and sisters that they have only 2 options: follow Paul’s instructions and become ANTI-feminist, OR stay feminist and reject Paul’s letters.

    That should be an easy choice, no?

  39. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    “Tired of seeing their holy texts used to justify the subjugation of women, a group of feminist theologians from across the Protestant-Catholic divide have joined forces?”

    They’ve actually created a new and greater divide, with Christianity (in all its denominations) on one side, and Feminist Theology on the other.

  40. Frank K says:

    All this talk of “mentoring” makes me think of Carly Fiorina. She was mentored by her husband and rose meteorically through the ranks at AT&T before she was appointed as Hewlett Packard’s new CEO. The media worshiped her and proclaimed that she was a “rock star CEO.”

    She then proceeded to drive HP into the ground. She ramrodded the Compaq merger to buy herself time to right the ship, but it didn’t work out and she was eventually fired. HP never recovered from her leadership. She had to wait until Bill Hewlett and David Packard were both dead before starting the merger, as both would have opposed it.

    #MentorHer

  41. Novaseeker says:

    Aimee Bird is one of the women I was referring to above, but I didn’t know her book project was actually a real thing. I read an article by her some time ago and kept wanting to say “Look, Let’s Just Be Friends, ok?” to her. Because she’s one of those conservative feminists who really, really wants to Just Be One Of The Guys by my reading. It frustrates her that there are any Boys Only spaces.

    Yes, it’s also about a radical de-sexualization of relations between men and women. Her idea is that you relate to everyone who isn’t your spouse as a sibling … which basically will work to keep nearly all single Christians perpetually single, while at the same time providing many benefits to women by making every man in the church into their de-sexualized beta orbiters. Basically it’s a formalization of women’s tendency to de-sexualize almost all men from their perspective and trying to institutionalize that among men as well, effectively ordering men to spend lots of time around women and suppress their sexual attractions. It’s so wrong-headed it’s hard to even know where to begin with the critique, to be honest.

  42. RICanuck says:

    Can a Christian man mentor a tranny? I work in Boston, I need to know.

  43. earl says:

    Men are evil and incompetent when it comes to everything but we still need them to mentor us.

    Welcome to chick logic.

  44. RICanuck says:

    In answer to my previous question, I advise against it.

    Two contracts ago I worked with an ugly late forties blonde tranny, with a deep voice. One morning while waiting for the elevator I made some small talk with him/her/xhir/it.

    The level of flirtation followed by sexual aggressiveness scared the shit out of me. Who knows what accusations would have been made if I had not changed jobs.

  45. Dale U says:

    @Damn Crackers

    We should throw out everything in the NT except the four Gospels, Acts, and Revelation.

    Wait! That is not far enough! 90% of the Gospels have teaching from before Christ was sacrificed and raised from the dead. That event ushered in the New Covenant, thereby rendering all prior teaching obsolete, including not just the entire OT, but also the prior 90% of the Gospels. So we can strip down the Bible even more. /sarc

  46. Jim says:

    So we can strip down the Bible even more. /sarc

    Oh they will. You can bet on that. The Cunt Train has no breaks.

  47. earl says:

    That part in Genesis where Eve was taken out of Adam…that’ll be gone too.

  48. Spike says:

    What I ask about #MentorHer is, ”What’s in it for me”?
    A couple of years ago we had an honors student come to work with us. She was nothing but trouble. Her life had the classic trail of human wreckage that female university graduates now have. She needed guidance through all of her work. I thankfully had little to do with her, but her more closely-associated female supervisor was driven crazy.
    She repaid the efforts to get her good grades by suing the university because she didn’t get Class I Honors. She went on to work in an Institute where she got the prestigious director fired. Under what circumstances, I’m not sure.
    I’m sure in hindsight that, while I was wary of her, I wasn’t wary enough. Thankfully I’ve dodged the bullet and will never see her again.

  49. PuffyJacket says:

    @Novaseeker

    I’m equal opportunity in this area — I don’t mentor people in general.

    I see more of this amongst men. It’s a two-way street though: there is obviously less demand from younger men as well.

    The clamoring for mentoring programs I do notice comes largely from women. The program joinees are like 75-80% female. Female managers and HR spend inordinate amounts of “admin time” on them. Many think the purpose of the mentorship is to obtain quasi-spiritual/emotional guidance, much like a “spirit guide” would provide to them. It’s doubtful many participants even know what a mentor is.

    The mentoring I received was to “shut up and observe”, which is very apt advice for most women in general.

  50. Anonymous Reader says:

    The clamoring for mentoring programs I do notice comes largely from women.

    Of course. Because women are generally less secure than men, they require more hand holding, more assisting over the little streams of life. The increased number of fe-person undergrads is a big part of all the special stress-relief things on campuses now, like cookies ‘n milk after midterms. They really aren’t suited to high pressure, but YouGoGirlism demands that they try.

    It’s doubtful many participants even know what a mentor is.

    They don’t know what [relationship] is in general. Until some man tells them what it is, and is not.

    The mentoring I received was to “shut up and observe”, which is very apt advice for most women in general.

    I actually received some of what is called “mentoring” from female supervisors. It was ok. A former Marine who was my boss for a few years was very patient, but much of his instruction could be reduced to “Watch and learn”. The problem is only a minority of people are suited to instruct others. The apprentice system of days gone by connected multiple young men with one master, who could accept or reject as he saw fit.

    Real mentoring looks like a multi-year stint of “wax on, wax off” on increasingly complex car fenders. That’s not what is being demanded.

  51. PRCD says:

    Aimee Bird is one of the women I was referring to above, but I didn’t know her book project was actually a real thing. I read an article by her some time ago and kept wanting to say “Look, Let’s Just Be Friends, ok?” to her. Because she’s one of those conservative feminists who really, really wants to Just Be One Of The Guys by my reading. It frustrates her that there are any Boys Only spaces.”

    She is enabled by men. Her co-hosts at “The Mortification of Spin” are all men.

    Women shouldn’t be doing theology at all. The past 10 years have seen this surge in female theology writers. Before, it was a man’s domain. Her writings on male-female relations and gender roles are foolish. The ancients were right about the female intellect. Sadly.

  52. Anon says:

    That AI has been shut down. The new one is being correctly retrained…

    Which won’t work.

    An AI that ruthlessly delivers productivity will always outperform the one that has a slew of SJW caveats. The more productive one will find more users (particularly in non-Anglosphere countries) and just get better and better from the greater instances of training.

    To believe otherwise is to believe that a company that ensures 50% of its management are radical feminists will still face no competitive disadvantage over a company that manages to avoid this extortion and hires on merit.

  53. stickdude90 says:

    Women shouldn’t be doing theology at all. The past 10 years have seen this surge in female theology writers.

    Who have now written their own Bible, as other commenters have pointed out.

  54. Frank K says:

    Real mentoring looks like a multi-year stint of “wax on, wax off” on increasingly complex car fenders. That’s not what is being demanded.

    I suspect that what women mean by “mentoring” is having the skids greased for them so they can quickly be placed into the fast track to upper management (and the big $$$)

  55. Prompt Critical says:

    Anon,
    An AI that ruthlessly delivers productivity will always outperform the one that has a slew of SJW caveats. The more productive one will find more users (particularly in non-Anglosphere countries) and just get better and better from the greater instances of training.

    If anyone was wondering why large western corporations seem so determined to push western notions of egalitarianism, sexual politics, identity politics, etc. on the rest of the world, this is a big part of the answer. For large companies, forced diversity is great because it represents a barrier to entry for competitors – a large company can afford to hire dozens of useless workers to pad their employee demographics and simply shunt them off to a department where they can’t do much harm, or mitigate the loss of productivity they entail; their smaller rivals do not have as much slack and are much less able to absorb the hit. Countries that are unwilling to buy into the western social program represent an existential threat to this arrangement because they are unwilling to handicap themselves in the prescribed manner, hence Woke Capital is dedicated to pushing every manner of western degeneracy down their throat as fast and hard as possible using every tool available (NGOs, government, extranational organizations like the EU and UN, military force, etc.).

  56. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    What happens when religious women actually want to live conservative lives: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/conservative-order-of-nuns-on-verge-of-destruction-following-vatican-interv

    Almost all of the members of a conservative order of nuns that serve the elderly in French nursing homes have announced that they have asked to be released from their vows following attempts by the Vatican to force them to alter their way of life and to “modernize” their order.

    According to their lay supporters, the sisters have been accused of engaging in “too much prayer” and concerns have been expressed that they wear the guimpe, a traditional form of religious head covering used by nuns that is no longer in vogue among the Church’s liberal elite.

    The sisters say that they are accused of a “deviant authoritarianism,” of being “too classical” in their thinking, and of being guilty of an “immobilism” in their devotion to their institute’s charism.

  57. feministhater says:

    The mentoring I received was to “shut up and observe”, which is very apt advice for most women in general.

    It’s amazing how well this holds up in your work but also in the home. The point of you keeping quiet and observing is not just to see how your mentor does the work but to also keep you from continual obstructing his ability to do his job. In the same way that the continual invasion of women in Church will bring, and has brought, the true works of the Church to its knees.

    The same way you would weigh up your questions throughout the day of the problems you saw or perhaps the processes you didn’t understand or agree with; and then keep them aside till the end of the day when you were then asked by your mentor if there was anything you needed help with. In much the same way a wife must also keep her questions to herself till she is home with her husband and can then ask him without interfering with the workings of the Church.

  58. feministhater says:

    I suspect that what women mean by “mentoring” is having the skids greased for them so they can quickly be placed into the fast track to upper management (and the big $$$).

    Bang on, real work is for men. They just want the Willy Wonka golden ticket to the top.

  59. Warthog says:

    It would be hilarious to create a robot AI Human Resources hiring manager that makes decisions solely on merit, and pattern recognition regarding sick days, etc. It couldn’t be “sexist” but they would scream that it is.

  60. BillyS says:

    Why do you worship “AI” Anon? It is still governed by the rules that set it up. It is not some magically truthful entity.

    The rules will be tweaked, along with the weight of specific inputs until the desired result is obtained.

    Your argument that success will make some companies do better would apply now, and so many companies continue down the foolish path instead. Success is relative, at least in their eyes. It is not just money or productivity, however much you might wish it to be so.

  61. James says:

    But mentor has the word “men” in it. Does it involve mansplaining?

  62. Opus says:

    My JAP girlfriend told me why she had abandoned her then new faith: the Pastor had been helping another woman with that other woman’s problems but as my JAP gf explained he helped himself to her. I detect jealousy. Would that be this mentoring of which I now hear so much.

    The JAP has now gone all new-agey and has a special relationship with God (and maybe Jesus too) but if you ask me (oyvey oyvey – always called me Muzzletof eat up that mozzleball soup) she is 100% tribal and frankly needs to see that she would be far happier with the local Rabbi and certainly not wasting her time on mentoring bounders and Anglo-cads like me. Out of her league and she knows it.

  63. Dalrock says:

    @Warthog

    It would be hilarious to create a robot AI Human Resources hiring manager that makes decisions solely on merit, and pattern recognition regarding sick days, etc. It couldn’t be “sexist” but they would scream that it is.

    You are right on both counts. Amazon recently had to scrap a hiring AI for just this reason.

  64. Novaseeker says:

    To believe otherwise is to believe that a company that ensures 50% of its management are radical feminists will still face no competitive disadvantage over a company that manages to avoid this extortion and hires on merit.

    The problem is that companies and their competitiveness are not based solely on that metric. If that were the case, the most successful companies today would hire exclusively on merit, have no affirmative action, have no diversity training and the like — which they pretty much all do. That will be no different in a world of AI (unless we’re talking about Skynet, in which case we have bigger problems), because the AI will be programmed to follow the same priorities that the company had pre-AI. The idea that the AI will change these priorities is Skynet territory.

  65. Lost Patrol says:

    It frustrates her that there are any Boys Only spaces.

    This actually stumped me because I was thinking yeah, and then I began to wonder if there actually were any such spaces left. Unless they are underground a la fight club, I can’t think where in the West a Boys Only space remains.

    I don’t know much about hockey buy I figured maybe the NHL. Nope. Women on air reporters, locker room reporters, and efforts underway to groom female officials for on the ice action. No longer Boys Only. Ice girls of course, but I wasn’t sure how to count that.

    Then I thought monastery. This was close but it turns out some of them have guest rooms for travelers and women can stay in them. Oh, and while the numbers are small, women do attend seminary classes, get theology degrees, and also teach classes at seminary, including at least one in the RCC. No longer Boys Only as a field of endeavor.

    The military no longer crosses my mind in these discussions since, well, you know. Even the SAS is open to women now and it won’t be long before official note is taken that no women have made selection yet, so what are we going to do to remedy that.

    There must still be some Boys Only spaces in the West, but I can’t come up with one that the internet can’t disabuse me of quickly.

  66. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    This is getting old. Sony is now working on a Spider Woman film: https://deadline.com/2018/11/spiderwoman-movie-spiderman-sony-pictures-bek-smith-amy-pascal-1202509718/

    Sony Pictures is taking its Spider-Man universe into a new direction in a #MeToo moment where Wonder Woman is being followed by a growing number of female superheroes. The studio is working on an animated Spider-Women film that will focus on three generations of women with Spidey powers. Bek Smith will write the script.

  67. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Lost Patrol: There must still be some Boys Only spaces in the West, but I can’t come up with one that the internet can’t disabuse me of quickly.

    Mafia, Crips, Bloods, MS-13, Tongs … despite the occasional female crime boss, most criminal gangs are pretty strict about keeping women in their designate roles.

    When they outlaw Men’s Only spaces, only outlaws will have Men’s Only spaces.

  68. Anonymous Reader says:

    Lost Patrol
    There must still be some Boys Only spaces in the West, but I can’t come up with one that the internet can’t disabuse me of quickly.

    If I understand correctly, the denomination that Aimee Bird belongs to does not allow women to serve in certain offices specifically including “preach”. Therefore when the leadership (elders, deacons) of a local church meets, it can exclude women from the meetings. She doesn’t want to be a “usurper”, she just wants to “come alongside” and “help” as a “sister”, by barging into the Boys Only space and changing the dynamic there.

    Imagine a church of 150 people, and there’s a group of 5 men who meet every week or two in a small room but without women included. There’s the “Boys Only” space that won’t let her be One Of The Guys.

    As long as there’s some place, some situation, with two or more heterosexual men and no women in it, some conservative feminist is going to be just itching to barge in there. But only to “help”, of course.

  69. Anonymous Reader says:

    Novaseeker
    The problem is that companies and their competitiveness are not based solely on that metric.

    There’s also the Libertarian assumption that companies exist solely for the bottom line. This is obviously not true in the real world. YouTube has never made a profit, for example. Yet it continues to dominate the market space that it occupies by merely existing. There are other reasons than profit for a business entity to continue. This may not fit in with tidy Libertarian thinking, but it’s observable in reality.

    The idea that some magical AI would be so efficient as to bend corporate culture in the direction of pure meritocracy just doesn’t match up to a real world where such software as Google’s Gmail word autocomplete is being reworked in order to bend it to match the corporate culture. (Not to mention the games Google plays with search autocomplete.) The pattern recognizer in question is deliberately being hobbled in order to avoid offending snowflakes over the use of “him” and “her” in ways that don’t fit the Female Imperative’s demands. I’m pretty sure that this won’t drive Google out of business, nor will it create any sizable market niche for a competitor to Gmail. The Libertarian perfect-market fantasy world notwithstanding.

    Plus, I’m certain that James Damore would never be allowed to work on that project, for obvious reasons…

  70. Lost Patrol says:

    RPL and AR,

    I see where you’re coming from.

    I’m tempted to count gangsters as ‘fight club’ style underground outfits except that I know there are parts of town where those boys don’t worry about being underground at all. Now see? If I were more of a natural, Harley McBadboy Chad sort of Alpha male; I might have thought of the criminal gangs on my own. That you came up with that right away shows that you’re still in there pitching RPL.

    Small groups of church men can be in fact another Boys Only group, though I think a powerful female influence pervades all their thought processes and actions, such that she may as well be on hand. Her physical absence is really a mild technicality though I can understand it will continue to rankle until she gets a seat at the table.

    We’re really having to go micro scale to find Boys Only, but those examples prove they’re still out there somewhere.

  71. feeriker says:

    A man needs to mentor a woman like a bicycle needs a gold fish.

    Or, for a more metaphorically apt comparison, a man needs to mentor a woman like a mouse needs to mentor a cat or a snake needs to mentor a hawk.

  72. earl says:

    Men only spaces are needed…if only so that you can talk without fear of someone being offended and trying to make it out like you abused them.

    When men get easily offended the group usually calls the guy any sorts of things to indicate how weak they are. For some reason when a woman is offended more people take it seriously.

  73. thedeti says:

    LP:

    There are a few, a very, very few, “men only” institutions. But these are limited to private clubs and religious orders, and only because anti discrimination laws exempt private clubs. Private clubs are exempted because (no surprise) politicians and rich people wanted that, to keep the riff raff out. Religious orders are exempted only because of the First Amendment.

    But the definition of “private club” is very circumscribed and in practice is limited to country clubs and private food clubs, where members go through an application process and pay money and dues to join. The minute a private club provides any public accommodations whatsoever, it is subjected to antidiscrimination laws.

    But even as a practical matter, most private clubs aren’t men only even though they can be. The clubs want and need the money, and women are willing to join and pay, so any woman who wants to join and pay will almost always be admitted. Plus, most of the male members of private clubs are men of means, at least upper middle class, and married. Their wives hate the idea of their husbands being able to go to some exclusive place where they can’t go, spending the family money on smoking cigars and drinking expensive alcohol and talking about work and laughing about women. So they harangue their husbands about “they wanna come along too” and so they’re allowed to.

  74. thedeti says:

    What’s more, the “men only experience” is limited to men who can afford to join a private club, and that’s usually upper middle class married men. The days of neighborhood stag bars where women weren’t allowed are over – they can’t legally do that anymore. Even when stag bars continued to operate the same way and women stayed away just because they always had, eventually some woman somewhere decided she was going to get a drink in that de facto stag bar because she can, and no one can stop her from doing it.

  75. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    There are the “de facto” men’s clubs that women don’t want to join. Computer clubs, libertarian dinners, horror/sci-fi events. (Not so much the latter anymore).

    The men get away with it because the topics of conversation bore women, and the men who attend are Betas, Gammas, and Omegas.

  76. feeriker says:

    Men only spaces are needed…if only so that you can talk without fear of someone being offended and trying to make it out like you abused them.

    When men get easily offended the group usually calls the guy any sorts of things to indicate how weak they are. For some reason when a woman is offended more people take it seriously.

    Based on casual observation I wonder if all-male spaces would even serve any useful purpose nowadays. The mangina-white knight indoctrination of the western male has been so thorough for so long that I don’t think most men today are even capable of acting in their own best long-term interests or discussing/doing purely masculine things as a group without taking the FI into consideration. I can easily imagine a “men’s organization” in which even the merest unkind word spoken about women would precipitate an estrogenic outburst of indignation and offense among the pussy-whipped majority, leading to infighting and eventual dissolution of the organization.

  77. thedeti says:

    RPL:

    Give it time. Eventually women want into those clubs too, because “wanna run with the boys” and they hate the idea of there being a place where they can’t go or an organization they can’t join merely because they’re women.

    The Boy Scouts is a private club – you have to apply, the organization sets its own rules and membership requirements, and you have to pay some money to join (though it can be waived). For years BSA excluded homosexuals, girls, and atheists. For years, girls and women were allowed to participate only in the now-defunct Explorer program. They weren’t allowed to advance or earn rank, couldn’t become Eagle Scouts, couldn’t be elected to the Order of the Arrow, and couldn’t have any leadership position with direct contact with the boys (no female Scoutmasters – troop committee is ok).

    Now, the only place where BSA has held its ground is you can’t be an atheist and join. BSA has given up everything else even when courts have upheld its ability to exclude whoever it wants because it’s a private organization. BSA bowed to financial and volunteer pressure to allow female Scoutmasters. Then in 1988 I think, female Scouters could be elected to the OA.

    Then they caved on excluding homosexuals as leaders even though they didn’t have to. BSA had a real problem with gay men becoming Scouters for the purpose of gaining access to the boys – and of course, what you imagine did happen, more than a little infrequently. A big faction in BSA said “we have to exclude homosexuals because we can’t take the chance. We can’t be everywhere. We can’t babysit a troop of 40 boys every minute of every hour of every day on a campout. Protection against sexual conduct is paramount.” That faction of course lost, because of public opinion and threats of boycotts and membership loss.

    Now BSA caved on admitting girls for the same reasons. its’ financial. The organization needs the members and the money. The organization needs the volunteers, and of course, a growing number of Scouters are women. And of course they harangue and browbeat the men into compliance with the narrative.

    “It’s only FAIR. Women are here. Why not girls? There’s no reason girls can’t do this TOO. You don’t want to be a SEXIST, do you? Well, DO YOU???”

    The organization doesn’t want to be seen as a throwback, an anachronism, or… SEXIST. Or face more lawsuits. So, it caved.

  78. feministhater says:

    Men will create their own spaces again once they learn to say ‘no’ to women.

    This is why it must collapse first. There is no saving this shit. Let it burn. It is your only hope.

  79. thedeti says:

    Right now, BSA’s policies on running its new coed program are “separate but equal” provisions. IN a Cub Scout pack, girls have their own dens. Boy Scout troops are either boys only or girls only. But give it time, and that too will fall by the wayside.

    Just wait, guys – Assemble about 15 troops consisting of a total of around 200 teenaged boys and about 50 girls at weeklong resident summer camps. What do you suppose will happen? Thaaaat’s right – the most attractive boys will be shtupping, or trying to shtup, the girls. The girls will be attention whoring. The bottom 80% of boys will alternate between pissed off, frustrated, and bored.

    When they should be working on merit badges, they’ll instead be trying to get laid. Because they’re human. And because whenever you put human males and human females together, sex starts happening. A number of teen girl Scouts will turn up pregnant after coming home from resident camp. More than that, they’ll start claiming they were sexually assaulted or raped. And that is when the lawsuit fun will REALLY start.

  80. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    thedeti: Eventually women want into those clubs too, because “wanna run with the boys” and they hate the idea of there being a place where they can’t go or an organization they can’t join merely because they’re women.

    Ah, but women CAN join. Perhaps that’s the secret of keeping those clubs Men’s Only?

    For decades I’ve heard libertarian men ask “How can we get more women to join?” And if a woman were to join a Linux user’s group, the Gamma males would fall over themselves to help her. But women don’t want to be fawned over by Gammas.

    Maybe the way to maintain a Men’s Only Club is to:

    1. Pick a boring club name. Vintage Computer User’s Club. Tonight’s topic: CP/M vs. DOS.

    2. Dress like a slob. Wear a fat suit with food stains. Try for the Omega Look.

    3. Put out a sign, Women Welcome!

    There’ll be a fake front room. Passing women will look in, see a few boring dudes (on duty) in front of a blackboard covered in obscure formulae, and then run away.

    Meanwhile, the REAL meeting will be in a back room, where the men take off their ugly disguises and discuss more enjoyable topics in plush library setting.

  81. Damn Crackers says:

    @thedeti – I mentioned this before, but my men’s only drinking club voted about 99-1 to open their membership to women (guess who was the only nay vote).

    Before the vote, both boomer and millennial members chastised the club members for waiting this long to have women members. It was our time to be on the right side of history, we all have mothers, daughters and sisters, etc., etc.

    Resigned to the future, I was just told by a future female member not to vote in another female because she is a creepy, slutty girl.

    Women ruin everything.

  82. Keith says:

    Feministshater how do you rebuild after the collapse ? What’s the new order look like ?

  83. feministhater says:

    Who knows Keith. However, you cannot do shit now.

  84. Lost Patrol says:

    thedeti,

    Hadn’t thought of the additional financial angle of making money off them. The third leg of the nuclear triad.

    1. Let women in and gain female approval (Empath – The Lift). Comply with The Narrative.

    2. Let women in and avoid shame, $ and time lost via discrimination lawsuits.

    3. Let women in to collect more dues $!

  85. feeriker says:

    Maybe the way to maintain a Men’s Only Club is to:

    1. Pick a boring club name. Vintage Computer User’s Club. Tonight’s topic: CP/M vs. DOS.

    2. Dress like a slob. Wear a fat suit with food stains. Try for the Omega Look.

    3. Put out a sign, Women Welcome!

    There’ll be a fake front room. Passing women will look in, see a few boring dudes (on duty) in front of a blackboard covered in obscure formulae, and then run away.

    ROTFLMFAO! YES.

    “Vintage Computer Users Club” – “V-CUC.” LOVE IT!

  86. Damn Crackers says:

    @Lost Patrol – “Let women in to collect more dues $!”

    I think we just discovered why feminism was allowed to happen. Where is our resident Marxist to explain this?

  87. Anonymous Reader says:

    Darwinian Arminian up thread pointed to a book by Aimee Bird, a sample is available via her Twitter account. It’s like an extended version of the article by her that I read a while back. Reading through the sample of Aimee Bird’s book is sort of interesting, but mostly predictable. From page 24:

    And while the little church plant that we joined had a great community in which men and women interacted well together, I quickly received signals from my pastor that women don’t learn theology at the same level as men. The glass ceiling of expectation for women learning theology and communicating it with other brothers and sisters in the faith was a lonely reality for me

    There’s that Boys Only area she wants to break into. She doesn’t want to teach men, oh, no, her denomination (the OPC) doesn’t allow that. No, she just wants to “communicate theology” with her “brothers”. Right. Retain the form but change the substance. Pay attention to her words, ignore the actions she desires. Sorry, no, my Glasses make very clear what she wants.

    Not too much further this text is found:

    I’d love to be able to point the secular culture to Christ’s church as a representation of how communion with God affects relationships between the sexes. But we’ve reduced a lot of the discussion about manhood in the church to how a man shows authority. Much of the discussion about womanhood draws lines nitpicking at what a woman can do and what she can’t do. And the church has provided little discussion about how men and women relate to each other.

    I don’t know anyone in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC) so I’m just speculating, but most likely there are other discussions regarding “manhood” than “how a man shows authority”. Although given the amount of rebellion by women in the modern world, and the perpetual and pervasive nature of wifely contention, it might well be that “how a man shows authority” comes up over and over again, because it’s desperately needed.

    Again, though, there are other discussions likely going on about manhood. It just might be that Aimee Bird is not privy to those discussions, because they are held by men for men, between men. Or they might be happening in front of her, and she might not know what she’s seeing. However it works, I’m skeptical, because of the very next sentence: defining different roles for men and women in the church is a bit more than nitpicking about what a woman can do. Her contempt for authority is revealed right here. Her rebellion and contentiousness as well.

    Bird’s cite of Harry met Sally suggest her age, and the repeated view of men as consumers of women reveals the standard conservative feminist viewpoint. It is beyond parody at a time when women literally consume men via the frivorce process – retaining access to his resources while denying him any of the things promised in wedding vows. The mention of #MeToo and #ChurchToo is very suggestive of female in-grouping…perhaps in the next chapter she discusses what to do when an innocent man is falsely accused? Or, well, perhaps not.

    I do not plan to buy this book, because I do not wish to reward feminism. However my first assessment is supported by the book sample: she wants to be One Of The Guys, to teach men, to overturn the organization of the church she belongs to, and to do so with a smile and a Bible in her hand while chirping about “brothers and sisters”.

    There’s also a bit of what Novaseeker observed up thread: to turn all men in a church into the Beta orbiters of women by denying and suppressing sexual polarity. No normal man wants to have hot smoochies with their sister…

  88. Anonymous Reader says:

    RPL
    For decades I’ve heard libertarian men ask “How can we get more women to join?” And if a woman were to join a Linux user’s group, the Gamma males would fall over themselves to help her. But women don’t want to be fawned over by Gammas.

    That’s a bit out of date. You might want to search a bit, see what’s happened recently to Linus and Linux. “Code of Conduct” apparently is the root password to dominance of open source, assuming you define the word “woman” in the broadest possible way.

    Libertarians are kind of the mirror image of TradCons in many ways, but both groups generally don’t understand women and thus will cave in to them more often than not.

  89. thedeti says:

    Keith:

    If there is a “collapse”, which I doubt there will be, because this is just going to continue sliding in this same general direction for the foreseeable future, it’s probably going to consist of the US splitting into at least 3 different separate political entities. One will be ultraconservative: Women cannot vote, only male property owners can vote, sexual morality enforced hard both legally and culturally, racially homogeneous (read: White, conservative Christian. It will resemble a constitutional democratic republic culturally and attitudinally similar to the one that existed in 1789 to about, oh, 1850.

    One will be a continuation of the present US: Hybrid capitalist with heavy dose of welfare-state socialism, heavily influenced by identity politics.

    The third will be anything –possibly a Christian minarchy/kingdom, like the UK only the reigning King/Queen has real dictatorial/fiat powers. Possibly a less strident version of 1) and 2).

    The question in the present day US will be what the territories would look like because those in 1) are in what was referred to in 2004 as “Jesusland” while those in 2) are in the Blue Archipelago – large metros and college towns. How do you get the libs in NY and CA to form their own government in a noncontiguous land area?

    I’m pretty sure it won’t be done without some civil unrest (read: war). the sides in 1) and 2) literally hate each other right now. The people in 1) have most of the guns and ammo. The people in 2) have the Deep State, most urban police and fire departments, and most of the machinery and industrial base.

    I mean, this has all been theorized, and no one really knows. I don’t hope for any of this, of course, and do not hope for or advocate violent overthrow of the government. I just think at some point it’s going to happen again. But not while I’m alive. For at least the next 30 years it will continue along the same path it’s on now, where systemic solutions for most men are not possible and individual solutions are the only real avenues available to them.

  90. Opus says:

    Is not Dalrock’s Blog a male only space? It is certainly true that occasionally Spacetraveller or Elspeth or Heidi comment (and never cause any trouble) but otherwise it is all-male. The same I notice is the case with some of the Youtube channels that interest me – they are all run by a man and always all the commenters (and the like) are men. These are for this century the male-only spaces: no one is excluding women but women are just not interested.

  91. thedeti says:

    The “Jesusland” and “United States of Canada” map which some have theorized could be separate political entities:

  92. NotaBene says:

    Some very interesting comments here on “male spaces”.

    For a year or so I’ve been thinking of the ideal “men’s club”, someday I’d like to start one. It would be a mix between the one portrayed in “Wooster and Jeeves”, a YMCA, and a country club. Or something. Cigars/pipes, alcohol, Bibles, video games, chess, books… lovely things it would be full of. And of course men only. A place to hang out, escape from the world, even stay a night or two if you need to.

    So um, if you happen to have a few million dollars lying about, I’ll start that and save half to fend off lawsuits, to keep it men only forever 🙂

  93. thedeti says:

    The 2016 Presidential election map, county by county. Trump carried red counties; Hillary won the blue.

    It’s a sea of red with islands of blue, consisting of

    1) large urban population centers.

    2) college towns

    3) areas of low population but either black majority population or in grinding poverty/chronically economically depressed.

    What do those three things have in common? They’re populated with reliable liberals/Democrats/socialists/”progressives”. They never vote republican, ever, not since Reagan in 1984. But the land areas they live in are not contiguous. They don’t form a single connected land mass.

    And that’s why everyone wonders about territorial boundaries and demarcations and how they would be drawn.

  94. Novaseeker says:

    And if a woman were to join a Linux user’s group, the Gamma males would fall over themselves to help her. But women don’t want to be fawned over by Gammas.

    Oh, they do, if there is something in it for them. It’s what happened in online gaming. That was totally dominated by gammas. Women came along after it became even slightly more mainstream with World of Warcraft, and for the most part they behaved as you would expect: attention whoring, getting benefits/help/stuff for free, flirting with guild leaders to get access to power and so on. The gamers seem to have been more or less tolerant of this until the number of women began to increase enough that they started to petition gaming companies to change the games — and that’s the dynamic that eventually led to Gamergate, which was really the most recent “fight” about women trying to increasingly control previously male spaces. In any case, if there is a group of men doing something together and women think they can benefit from being a part of that, they will find a way to do that, and they will act according to the predictable script once they arrive … even if it is a bunch of gammas. The key is that it has to be worth something to them.

    ——

    Map of Jesusland

    The thing is that map is now a bit too old. There are states in the red that are moving blue overall. leaving aside 16, so there’s now a bit more blue and a bit less red. And the problem everywhere is that the cities everywhere are blue and the countryside/small towns are red. Breaking it down by state doesn’t really work, therefore. Texas is red, but its cities are blue — all of them, not just Austin. Same in Georgia. Same in Tennessee. Etc. The Pacific Coast states are all deep blue, but the blue pop is concentrated west of the coastal range (sort of like an American progressive Chile) … the interiors of all three are deep red. Because of this, dividing the country along state lines is very precarious and won’t really help matters much in terms of the source of the tensions.

  95. thedeti says:

    Nova:

    Right. That’s why I included the 2016 presidential county by county map that shows the Blue Archipelago. It’s even worse now that in 2004.

  96. thedeti says:

    Nova: I went back to the 2016 map for a minute. All the cities, everywhere, are blue now. Same for college towns surrounded by red.

    Large cities in red states are blue, in states Trump carried. Memphis, Indianapolis, Des Moines, Boise, Helena, KC, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Louisville, I think even Pierre SD. It goes down from there – Peoria, IL; Davenport, IA, Madison WI, Salt Lake City, Butte MT, Little Rock.

    College towns: Carbondale, IL; Champaign-Urbana IL, Bloomington IN, Iowa City, IA, Madison, Oxford MS, Birmingham AL, Athens GA, Boulder CO, Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill.

    Impoverished areas: Mississippi Delta along MS and AR; central GA and AL, central and coastal SC

    It’s really something how it’s become more Blue in just 12 years and where the demarcations are.

  97. Frank K says:

    I don’t see Colorado as part of “Jesusland”, considering that we just elected a homosexual as governor. Colorado is kind of weird, on the social side of things it’s very leftist, yet at the same time it’s fiscally conservative. Look up TABOR in Wikipedia. Every election we have props for raising taxes and spending, and they typically go down in flames.

  98. BillyS says:

    The split cannot happen peaceably and thus it will be violent whenever it comes. No neat division is possible and even those strongly favoring one of Deti’s numbers will be squishy on other things.

    We have to reap the consequences of destroyed families and no families, with uncivilized invaders filling in, before things will get bad enough to cause a change. I could easily see that being 30-50-100 years out, possibly more, but it will eventually hit. The family is the fundamental unit of long term society and we have destroyed it. It won’t end up being the 1950s family most likely, but it will have to be some stable family that is focused on pair bonding or perhaps polygamy if enough males die along the way.

    The US is going to coast on fumes for quite a while. Too many are still too nice.

  99. Novaseeker says:

    Right. That’s why I included the 2016 presidential county by county map that shows the Blue Archipelago. It’s even worse now that in 2004.

    Yep, I see that.

    I think we tend to think in terms of states for a few reasons. One is that the last time around it divided on the basis of states due to the issue involved. Another is that the main focus of our political system, by design, is on states (Senate, Electoral Votes), so everyone is focused on whether a state, by majority, is blue or red. Trouble is the issues that divide now don’t break down by state, they break down inside states. Even if we were to have a kind of split where the majority red states formed a bloc and the majority blue ones formed a kind of east and west Pakistan arrangement, it likely would be very unstable, particularly inside the red bloc, which would have a lot of populated deep blue cities (the blue bloc would have a good amount of red hinterland but would overwhelmingly outnumber it). Hard to see how a splitup is a solution.

    My guess as to what actually happens? The left wins. What I mean is that the country is clearly trending left generationally — it’s unmistakeable. I think where we will end up is that the social issues that are largely divisive today will be less divisive in 20 years because by then everyone under 50 (or, say 75% of them) in 20 years time will agree about them in a kind of broad consensus that doesn’t exist today due to differences in generational attitudes. I expect that there will still be a “right” in politics but, if there is one, it won’t look anything like it has up to now, and it will be quite on board with the social agenda that is supported by an overwhelming majority of millenials (and younger). So there will be less conflict. I think we are in a particularly conflicted period because we have been through a period of fast (in some cases supersonic speed) social change, which is supported by only a minority of people over a certain age, but by an overwhelming majority of people below a certain age. Over time, that is a problem that lessens and then goes away. There will always be political disagreements, of course, but they don’t form the basis of the kind of passionate, hatred-laced divisions we see today — those are formed by rapid social changes and different attitudes toward them. Once that dissipates, we will still have political divisions, but they will be “normal” political divisions within a more or less consensus worldview (which won’t be traditional or conservative at all), rather than today’s clash of incommensurate worldviews. Just my guess as to where things are going.

  100. earl says:

    Pick a boring club name.

    No Girls Allowed

  101. thedeti says:

    Nova:

    That’s what will happen in the foreseeable future, I think. That’s looking 50-100 years into the future. After that, some sort of violent armed conflict/ breakdown is probably going to happen at some point, from external invasion/occupation. Barbarians at the gate and the fall of Rome, something like that.

  102. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    BillyS: The split cannot happen peaceably and thus it will be violent whenever it comes. No neat division is possible.

    True. Many civil wars are not like the American version, which was a territorial war of secession. Instead, they are ideological, with no clearly defined territories. Hence, they are “winner takes all” (e.g., the English, Russian, and Spanish civil wars).

  103. Paul says:

    As long as you’re a private club, the only thing to keep it men-only is determination: hence to hand-pick MEN who will keep WOMEN out. Eventually it were men that opened up BSA for women.

  104. Keith says:

    Dividing up territory by city state and region will not change the situation. Violence or not. The under laying and lasting menace to western culture being the amount of unwed mothers on the system , the aging population with a aborted future replacements and AI mixed with automation in the low end work force driving poverty and slowing economic climbing of the prosperity ladder. This will not change by vote or revolutions or Balkanization of landscapes. I do not see a collapse but a slow grind into a third world country even a banana republic maybe.

  105. thedeti says:

    Keith:

    And youre correct about all of that. The problem is, so am I, so is Nova, so is Billy, and so is everyone else looking at this landscape. Things like this are really really hard to predict. The one thing I can say is that human nature doesn’t change, and human nature being what it is: (1) history is likely to repeat itself, and (2) real, deep, lasting change involving entire substructures put in place to undergird a society almost always takes a very long time.

    One of the reasons things have changed so fast socially now, I think, is because of technology. What is different from the civil war and from the fall of other empires is that the world is much more interconnected now, so anything that happens here, any major cataclysmic changes here, will be felt around the world and will affect the entire world for good or ill.

  106. Jim says:

    The thing is that map is now a bit too old. There are states in the red that are moving blue overall. leaving aside 16, so there’s now a bit more blue and a bit less red. And the problem everywhere is that the cities everywhere are blue and the countryside/small towns are red. Breaking it down by state doesn’t really work, therefore. Texas is red, but its cities are blue — all of them, not just Austin. Same in Georgia. Same in Tennessee. Etc. The Pacific Coast states are all deep blue, but the blue pop is concentrated west of the coastal range (sort of like an American progressive Chile) … the interiors of all three are deep red. Because of this, dividing the country along state lines is very precarious and won’t really help matters much in terms of the source of the tensions.

    Yeah. It’s why I don’t buy the idea that the US can peacefully break up by state because the lines are drawn mostly by urban/rural and not by state. It’s going to be a winner take all not a break up off the US into pieces. I’m assuming there’s going to be some kind of civil war. With how weak and pathetic most men are these days I think the “Right”, whatever that means anymore, is just going to go quietly into the night. And if this hypothetical civil war does not happen until the 2030s like some people around the internet are saying I’ll be too damned old to fight it anyway.

    When you kiss cunt ass you destroy your own country. Add dropping God to the mix and you’re dead meat. Most humans (especially bitches and soy boys) are stupid, rebellious little morons. I mean look where we’re at now…”Pastors” and “priests” worshiping silly little girls, promoting female priests/bishops/etc, promoting homosexuality, one-world leftist garbage and on and on. And now we’ve got degenerate tyranny garbage being promoted. How long will it be before the “churches” promote that BS with as much gusto as they do women worship?

  107. TMAC says:

    I’d say that if the libs all lived in one place and the conservatives in another, the dem “homeland” would be a Detroit-style ghetto in 10 years. A wasteland. People would be fleeing for the “Red” lands in droves. And the thing is… the libs know it. They know their policies would decimate their cities (they already do) and I think it infuriates them that they can’t make it work. They hate the Conservatives for having a system that DOES work and they hate us because our existence alone forces them to come to grips with the fact that theirs doesn’t.

  108. ChristianCool says:

    I wish CalExit had passe and was approved by Congress.

    We would get rid of:

    2 Marxist Senators.
    The largest populations of illegal aliens in the United States.
    Caravan of Border migrants in Tijuana trying to invade the country.
    More homeless drug addicts then the population of many of entire US States.
    Yes Means Yes laws.
    55 guaranteed Democrat electoral votes
    Trillions of State debt;
    53 US House seats (almost all controlled by radical feminist Marxists Representatives)
    Dysfunctional State gov
    Sanctuary cities;
    Fires burning out of control due to environmental laws;
    Farms die because water is cut off due to Delta Smelt “endangered” fish by some lunatic judge;
    Courts packed with judges so far left they seem to think Karl Marx was a mushy-moderate, including the lovely 9th Circuit;
    Etc etc

    California is not America; it is a de facto 3rd world country. Time to cut our losses and save what is left of America. Let the real Americans come to the USA and build The Wall right against that hellhole, keep special guarded entries for rented military bases, and let’s be rid of CA for good.

  109. OKRickety says:

    TMAC said: “I’d say that if the libs all lived in one place and the conservatives in another, the dem “homeland” would be a Detroit-style ghetto in 10 years. A wasteland.”

    From what I understand, that precedent has already been set. Brazil today is a great example of what happens when you have extreme liberals in power. Perhaps there are other countries that also meet the criteria.

  110. Novaseeker says:

    From what I understand, that precedent has already been set. Brazil today is a great example of what happens when you have extreme liberals in power. Perhaps there are other countries that also meet the criteria.

    Or Venezuela.

    Brazil just lashed back by electing a Trumpier version of Trump.

  111. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    TMAC: if the libs all lived in one place and the conservatives in another, the dem “homeland” would be a Detroit-style ghetto in 10 years. A wasteland. People would be fleeing for the “Red” lands in droves.

    After Africans drove the European “racist colonialists” out of Africa, the Africans followed them into Europe. Where they continued to complain about European racism.

  112. Lost Patrol says:

    AR,

    Excellent analysis of Aimee Bird’s program, and that of many other good church ladies I’m sure.

  113. Lost Patrol says:

    Also, Novaseeker makes a good point about the generational aspects of societal change. I live in shit kicker country and it is already normal to see younger people with nose rings, heavy tats, purple hair, and decidedly non conservative viewpoints – in the cities – and churches!

  114. Hmm says:

    Doug Wilson pretty much dismantled Aimee Byrd’s main thesis: That in the church men and women should treat each other like natural brothers and sisters do. Wilson’s line of reasoning:

    1. When natural brothers and sisters are unmarried, they are allowed to choose a mate from anyone of the opposite sex except their sibling. Being alone with an opposite-sex sibling almost always brings no sexual temptation.*
    2. When brothers and sisters in the church are unmarried, they must choose a mate from among those of the opposite sex within the church. This means that there is always some sexual tension between unmarried Christians of opposite sexes, and this can easily turn into sexual temptation.
    3. Therefore the analogy Byrd tries to make between natural siblings and Christian brothers and sisters is invalid and ultimately dangerous to Christian chastity.

    * My comment: except for followers of Japanese anime, where sibling love and incest is the new thing.

  115. Novaseeker says:

    @Hmm —

    Yes, that’s correct, but it’s much more intense for men. For women, most men are invisible sexually/romantically, so they find the fact that this isn’t the case for men generally annoying. From a woman’s perspective, it seems quite easy to treat almost all men around them as brothers, because in their own minds, almost all men around them are de-sexualized anyway, and are not interesting from a sexual or romantic perspective. There are exceptions of course, the few that do attract, but from a woman’s point of view those can be handled as exceptional cases, and not an overwhelming risk. Her “ask” is that men become like women in seeing most members of the opposite sex as de-sexualized and uninteresting sexually or romantically — which of course is not the case for men, so then the ask becomes that men should suppress their sexual attraction pretty much around all women, period, forcing themselves to be as attracted to them as they are to their sisters. As you say, this interferes with people meeting each other, that is one baseline problem. But more fundamentally it isn’t workable for men due to the way male attraction works. It’s better to avoid situations where the temptation can arise than to craft a set of expectations where temptation is always present (for men) and then chastise them for giving into temptation (which would be inevitable). Plainly put, it’s an absurd ask that is based almost entirely on projecting the female experience of the world onto men.

  116. Anonymous Reader says:

    Novaseeker
    Plainly put, it’s an absurd ask that is based almost entirely on projecting the female experience of the world onto men.

    Some would say this is another example of feminism, and that would be true, but it’s deeper. Women cannot put themselves into men’s shoes. They cannot empathize with men (although I bet if Aimee Bird were injected with a little dose of Testosterone daily for a couple of weeks, she might be a bit more able to do so). In other words, it’s the Female Imperative: men should become more like women..except for certain times when they must be more manly.

    Fried ice, now!

  117. I wonder what Aimee Byrd would think of her man being “just friends” with another “sister in Christ?”

  118. PRCD says:

    I don’t know anyone in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC) so I’m just speculating, but most likely there are other discussions regarding “manhood” than “how a man shows authority”.

    I was in the OPC a long time. I met my wife there. There are not any discussions on gender roles. None were needed. For one example of what the OPC thinks about this, listen to this sermon series.

  119. Usury kills says:

    Jeremiah 5:30-31 30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;

    31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

  120. Kid Charlemagne says:

    “Women want toasted ice.”

    — Chinese proverb

  121. Kid Charlemagne says:

    Deti said: “What’s more, the “men only experience” is limited to men who can afford to join a private club, and that’s usually upper middle class married men. The days of neighborhood stag bars where women weren’t allowed are over – they can’t legally do that anymore.”

    I got news for you – even private clubs cannot legally be male only. Been that way for decades, as I believe it was in 1984 that SCOTUS ruled (unanimously!) against the Rotary Clubs (which are private) being allowed to continue to have an all-male membership policy. The precedent was therefore in place against any other private clubs – the Elks, Moose Lodges, private country clubs, etc.

    The only way to have a private all-male club today in the USSA is to keep it underground, and not attract any attention to it. (Unless maybe you can claim a religious exception, like you’re a monastery full of monks). And this, in a so-called “free country.”

    So glad we fought all those overseas wars for “our freedoms”, right? Wouldn’t want Saddam Hussein or Slobodon Milosevic or Moammar Qaddafi to take our rights and freedoms from us…like the right to free association we’re guaranteed by the First Amendment! Can I get an Amen?

  122. BillyS says:

    Boy Scouts could have stayed male only KC and even won at the Supreme Court for that. But they bailed and I have not seen anyone else get that ability as you note.

  123. Nick Mgtow says:

    The more you bend over… You can’t appease the harpies + invading men’s spaces.

    I have bought that dishcloth in years…

    https://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/a25046515/serena-williams-gq-woman-of-the-year-cover-controversy/

  124. feeriker says:

    Yeah. It’s why I don’t buy the idea that the US can peacefully break up by state because the lines are drawn mostly by urban/rural and not by state.

    The lines are ideological, not geographical. Indeed, this is why “states” as we in America now know them will become defunct in the future. Other than descriptive names for specific geographical regions, they won’t have any political meaning at all. None of their residents will have enough in common with each other to be able to form meaningful political communities; in fact they’re very likely to balkanize into atomized “virtual” philosophical and religious communities that hate each other’s guts (for an approximate example of what this could look like, think of Croatia and Bosnia during the Former Yugoslavia’s breakup and civil war of the 1990s, especially the antagonism between Croats, Bosnians, and Serbs, all of whom lived amongst one another for centuries before enough was finally enough).

    America’s states are residue from a long- extinct era when this was an entirely different country, when people shared a common heritage and common socioeconomic, national, and relgious bonds. They’re useless and cumbersome political anachronisms now.

    And no, the breakup of the USA will certainly NOT be peaceful. TPTB responsible for the current catastrophe are not about to cede power peacefully or voluntarily.

    Many civil wars are not like the American version, which was a territorial war of secession. Instead, they are ideological, with no clearly defined territories. Hence, they are “winner takes all” (e.g., the English, Russian, and Spanish civil wars).

    Again, correct, although I’m not entirely sure about a “winner take all” outcome. Things might get so ugly (just enough residual American fighting spirit left to make raw tyranny blush) that there will be no victors strong enough to form a conventional centralized government.

  125. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    even private clubs cannot legally be male only. Been that way for decades, as I believe it was in 1984 that SCOTUS ruled (unanimously!) against the Rotary Clubs (which are private) being allowed to continue to have an all-male membership policy. … The only way to have a private all-male club today in the USSA is to keep it underground, and not attract any attention to it.

    I think the reason “private clubs” cannot discriminate is because of “state entanglement.” If a club incorporates or becomes an LLC, owns real estate, receives tax deductions, then it receives “state benefits,” such that the club becomes “an extension of the state.”

    If a private club were solely private (no incorporation and its related benefits), then I think it could legally discriminate. However, it would still be subject to vicious media “exposures” (Acme CEO Joe Smith Attends Secret Hate Club) and ANTIFA attacks on its members.

    So yes, even if legal, such a private club would best keep itself away from public scrutiny.

  126. Warthog says:

    “The idea that some magical AI would be so efficient as to bend corporate culture in the direction of pure meritocracy just doesn’t match up to a real world where such software as Google’s Gmail word autocomplete is being reworked in order to bend it to match the corporate culture.”

    I only brought up hiring AI as a joke, and a test case. Of course AI uses the rules you give it. But the claim of the feminists is constantly that men are biased against them. So, if you created a machine to enforce perfectly fair hiring rules, it should make them happy right? Wrong, because they don’t really want fairness, they want advantage.

  127. Nick Mgtow says:

    Warthog says:
    […] But the claim of the feminists is constantly that men are biased against them. So, if you created a machine to enforce perfectly fair hiring rules, it should make them happy right? […]

    The NPC answer to that is “well, the machine was created mostly by white meeeeeeeeen!”

  128. Hmm says:

    @Nova:

    Thanks for your expansion on the whole issue of attraction. You are right of course, but I am quite sure that for the few men that do attract a woman, it would work rather strongly in the other direction. In one church I was involved in for a short time, I saw a clearly alpha newly-divorced male, converted during a Promise Keepers event, have to practically shoo away a bevy of single women who wanted to “sister” him. And many of those women were already involved with other men in the church.

  129. earl says:

    I live in shit kicker country and it is already normal to see younger people with nose rings, heavy tats, purple hair, and decidedly non conservative viewpoints – in the cities – and churches!

    I’ve seen quite a few as well…the thing about whichever wave of feminism we are in now is that this generation of women is fully neck deep in the man hatred they are just going ugly at an earlier rate. Back in the day a woman could be a feminist and still have some semblance of the patriarchy by getting married and having kids so she could have her cake and eat it too. This round of women is going to do what feminism taught them….be ‘independent’ and alone, full of male hatred. I’ve begun to see more stories of older women once their last egg is gone regretting they took the lie of feminism but when they are in their 20s the world is their oyster.

  130. Keith says:

    Well if a break up is the future how would one continue to spread the gospel ? You can’t build a church living in a bunker as some prepper. The church seems to flourish during hard times and epidemics human nature and all that. How would one train his son and grand children ?

  131. Lost Patrol says:

    Weak men are screwing too many things up. Naturally, their wives are forced to leave them.

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/11/donald-trump-is-destroying-my-marriage.html

  132. earl says:

    And I have rejected women who have shown interest strictly because of nose rings and tattoos. I’ve seen enough evidence it trumps their personality which usually isn’t pleasant to begin with.

  133. earl says:

    Here’s an example of the lament of women after their last egg is gone I’m talking about.

    ‘I’m Broke and Mostly Friendless, and I’ve Wasted My Whole Life’

    https://www.thecut.com/2018/11/im-broke-and-friendless-and-ive-wasted-my-whole-life.html

  134. Nick Mgtow says:

    What a read, Earl!

    ” I’m trying, Polly. I am. I’m dating. I’m working out and working hard. Listening to music I enjoy and loving my cat. Calling my mom. Yet I truly feel like a ghost. No one knows who I am or where I’ve been. I haven’t kept a friend, lover, or foe around long enough to give anyone a chance. What’s the point? I don’t care for my job. I’m not building toward anything, and I don’t have the time or money to really invest in what I care about anyway at this point. On top of that, society is telling me my value as a woman is fading fast, my wrinkles require Botox (reference said poor finances), all the while my manager is asking for me to finish “that report by Monday.” Why bother?

    My apathy is coming out in weird ways. I’m drinking too much, and when I do see my friends on occasion, I end up getting drunk and angry or sad or both and pushing them away. And with men I date, I feel pressure to make something of the relationship too soon (move in, get married, “I have to have kids in a couple of years”; fun times!). All the while still trying to be the sexpot 25-year-old I thought I was until what seemed like a moment ago.”

    https://www.thecut.com/2018/11/im-broke-and-friendless-and-ive-wasted-my-whole-life.html

  135. @Nick Mgtow, @Earl,
    The other issue swelling up here, among the growing human suffering with in this older female demographic, is the pervasive use of SSRI (selectrive seratonin reuptake inhibitors).

    Pharma have released pricing programs and attractive incentives. Doctors have responded, and are prescribing this stuff like crazy. Patients chewing them up like m&m’s. Women are being prescribed and taking them for normal monthly menses, and for coping with normal menopausal symptoms. It’s unreal.

    And once you try to stop taking them, you find that you can’t because the withdrawal symptoms are surprisingly severe.

    Complaining and misery going into it. More suffering and hopelessness coming out the other end.

  136. File under “you can’t make this stuff up”:

    It’s not hard to imagine all kinds of subtle consequences—and, ultimately, damage to women’s careers—from so much caution. And what happens to office romance? Is it dead, or just a lot more fraught than ever? Ideally, we could keep what was great about male-female diversity and just get rid of what wasn’t.

    http://fortune.com/2018/11/01/me-too-backlash-women-google/

    Knowing almost nothing about the real reasons someone was fired may not, alas, stop some people from deciding that the way to stay “safe” is to avoid working alongside women. Or traveling with them. Or sending them out on plum assignments. Or promoting them. Is this starting to sound way too familiar from decades ago? What year are we in again? “It might sound extreme,” Flores notes. “But I’ve heard male executives express a real concern that having female colleagues ‘could come back to bite me’.”

    Some of the steps managers told SHRM they’ve taken: Male mentors can no longer be assigned to women less senior then themselves. Working in the office after hours is no longer allowed “for groups of fewer than three employees, and must include a manager.” No touching ever, and “asking permission to enter a 3-foot space, and NEVER [caps theirs] closer than 3 feet.” One manager told SHRM he’s “scared to say anything” to or about women, ever.

  137. Otto says:

    “Of course AI uses the rules you give it.”

    Expert systems use the rules you give it. AI creates its own rules based on its observations.

    If you fed employee HR data to an AI as observational data, it would probably create these rules:

    Males work longer hours.
    Males take fewer sick days.
    Males are rated higher in technical skills.
    Females are rated higher in soft/people skills.

    You would have to manually add a rule telling the AI to ignore the rules it created, thus turning it from an AI into just an “expert system”.

  138. earl says:

    Women are being prescribed and taking them for normal monthly menses, and for coping with normal menopausal symptoms. It’s unreal.

    I think it’s the same reason why they get all the girls on birth control too. Who cares if women are depressed because they gave up having kids…they can double whammy them for anti-depressants and birth control.

    Big pharma needs to exploit their normal downtimes for profit…who’s the real oppressive patriarchy here?

  139. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    earl: This round of women is going to do what feminism taught them….be ‘independent’ and alone, full of male hatred.

    A big problem is that modern women are so delusional. Every woman thinks she’s amazingly awesome, and thus entitled to an equally amazingly awesome man.

    Women read tabloid stories of celebrity women having children in their 40s, and dating hot young boy toys. The typical tattooed land whale imagines that she too can marry a hot, younger alpha male, and begin having kids, when she’s in her 40s. (And continue to travel to exotic playgrounds for the rich and famous.)

    If such women do finally settle, they’ll hate their Beta providers for “cheating” them out of the awesome life that was their entitlement.

  140. BillyS says:

    Otto,

    Expert systems use the rules you give it. AI creates its own rules based on its observations.

    What do you think makes AI run? It is code people write. That code will value certain things more than others.

    Quit seeing it as some magic bullet.

  141. OKRickety says:

    constrainedlocus quoted this: “Ideally, we could keep what was great about male-female diversity and just get rid of what wasn’t.”

    I think this is the gist of what Aimee Byrd said in her book Why Can’t We Be Friends?. Doh! How can anyone fail to understand that we do not live in such a utopia today?

  142. thedeti says:

    Kid Charlemagne, RPL

    SCOTUS held that states can outlaw discrimination in private clubs based on certain characteristics. One of the reasons SCOTUS said this was because Rotary International isn’t a country club, isn’t all that selective in its membership, invites nonmembers to attend, and allows nonmembers to use it for business purposes.

    So, yeah. If you’re an exclusive private club, exclude nonmembers except as guests of members, take no state money, and do not allow your facilities to be used by nonmembers, then you can most likely discriminate.

  143. Gunner Q says:

    Kid Charlemagne @ November 28, 2018 at 10:15 pm:
    “I got news for you – even private clubs cannot legally be male only. Been that way for decades, as I believe it was in 1984 that SCOTUS ruled (unanimously!) against the Rotary Clubs (which are private) being allowed to continue to have an all-male membership policy. The precedent was therefore in place against any other private clubs – the Elks, Moose Lodges, private country clubs, etc.”

    You’re overstating the matter. The decisions hinged on Rotary Clubs being directly involved in the business world and having very open membership.

    “There is no Federal law against sex discrimination by private clubs. But about half the states, including New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, have laws banning sex discrimination in business establishments or public accommodations.”

    It’s more like McDonald’s can’t refuse to serve women than a private club allowing only men. Women being women, however:

    But Eleanor Smeal, head of the National Organization for Women, hailed the decision as ”the death knell for male-only clubs that are part of the business establishment,” adding: ”The handwriting is on the wall. These clubs are going to have to admit women.

  144. earl says:

    My ideas for where you could hold male only clubs would include the coal mines, sewage treatment plants, anywhere that requires manual labor, or in the basement of some dank bar fight club style.

  145. Gunner Q says:

    Come to think of it, there’s a men-only club next to where I live. A group of guys who hang out in a place one of them purchased and then declared a “historic site” so he wouldn’t have to pay taxes on it. Very low profile, no public sign at all. I only know about it myself because a friend of mine once made a delivery there.

    Sadly, they apparently don’t accept applications.

  146. Frank K says:

    I’ve begun to see more stories of older women once their last egg is gone regretting they took the lie of feminism but when they are in their 20s the world is their oyster.

    I’ve sometimes wondered what it must be like to be a moderately attractive woman in her prime. The never ending attention. Being able to choose a man like a meal from a restaurant menu. Men tripping over each other to solve your problems.Beta orbiters galore who will help you do your job at the office (or outright do it for you).

    And then suddenly, with little to no warning, it ends.

  147. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Women drivers: https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2018/11/27/netflix-while-driving-crash/

    The State Patrol is reminding people not to Netflix and drive after a woman crashed her vehicle while watching the streaming service on her iPad.

    Police say numerous calls came in Oct. 26 to report a person crossing over lanes, driving onto the shoulder and driving in and out of the grass on the shoulder on Interstate 94. As troopers approached, the woman ran off the road and crashed into median cables.

    The woman admitted she had been watching Netflix on the iPad that was positioned on the passenger seat.

  148. Frank K says:

    America’s states are residue from a long- extinct era when this was an entirely different country, when people shared a common heritage and common socioeconomic, national, and relgious bonds.

    I recently watched a few old Gary Cooper movies. In watching them it crossed my mind just how unrecognizable 2018 America would be to the characters in those movies. From their perspective we would appear to be a foreign land, especially because of the cultural balkanization and the “new morality”.

  149. Any line of work with intense heat, sun, humidity, cold, heights, dirt, sweat or depths and either port-a-potties or the great outdoors as a toilet pretty much becomes a men-only club by default.
    There are some women in such fields, but they typically are one of the boys and don’t even try the “but ma feminism!” B.S. The work is hard and often back-breaking. In construction I felt sore, but strong, lean and tan. Working 12 to 15 hour days, I can tell you an ice cold Diet Coke and simple ham and cheese sandwich tastes unbelievably good. Far greater sense of camaraderie and accomplishment, because the results are evident.

    Under the opposite conditions we find find largely women working alongside still a lot of men: fluorescent lighting, air conditioned, dry, comfortable, warm or cool with internet access. A lot of time wasted on cover-your-ass and paralysis-by-analysis conference calls, webex’s, “tiger team” meetings and “collaboration” seminars. True results are often obscure, financial only and performance/accomplishment blurred by automation, teams, etc.

  150. Frank K says:

    I believe that the Knights of Columbus are still male only. They have an adjunct org for women “the sweethearts of the knights” (their wives). But the ladies do not attend the men’s meetings, as far as I know. Perhaps the Knights get a legal pass as a religious org.

    I’m surprised Antifa haven’t attacked them yet, as they have “Columbus” in their name. That has to be a hate crime.

  151. earl says:

    I’ve sometimes wondered what it must be like to be a moderately attractive woman in her prime.

  152. I would add that in these men-only clubs (fields of work), freeloaders are ostracized to the extreme. You won’t get away with it.
    Sure, they will get hired and come to the job site, but in a matter of minutes “new guy” gets his balls busted to the extreme. If he listens, learns and does exactly as intructed, then he’s good. If he fucks off, mouths off, then his ass is going to get chewed on the regular by the foreman and his colleagues and/or replaced.

    That is actually true team building. Not unlike football practice or basic training, though to a far lesser degree. Weed out the weaker ones in favor of competence, work ethic, safety, getting shit done.

    In my experience, the corporate environment is very different in this aspect because is absolutely teeming with free-loaders with little to no value add, and almost a common hesitancy for managers to correct it. As a result, lazy and incompetent people get promoted and can hide in medium- to large- organizations for years. They often don’t get detected either until an acquisition is made, and the interest of management is to eliminate duplicate roles, etc.

    There are exceptions to this I am sure, but just my observation.

  153. Damn Crackers says:

    This one is for Aimee Byrd –

  154. earl says:

    It doesn’t end well for kitty.

  155. Anonymous Reader says:

    Up thread Novaseeker and the-deti were discussing various longer term outcomes.
    One thing to watch for in the US in my opinion will be any attempts to put a “Social Credit” system in place along the lines of what has been going on in China this year. People who commit too many infractions such as smoking in the wrong place are being barred from air travel or fast trains, just for one example. Search terms “Social credit” and “china” will turn up a few news stories in the English and European press on the topic, maybe one or two US reports. There apparently is no way to appeal the decision, and China is already deploying facial recognition automata at train stations & airports to spot those with low “social credit” as soon as they arrive. China first rolled this out in Uighar areas in order to control the movements of those deemed to be a danger. Now it’s apparently going nationwide.

    Further details are fuzzy, but it looks like the Chinese government also wants to control the bank accounts and credit of those with low “social credit” as well. That falls in line with what PayPal has done to certain people / groups / sites in the US with “wrong” politics.

    One straw in the wind: New York State has legislation pending that would require all firearms licencees to submit their social media comments and search history as part of the permit renewal process. I don’t expect it to pass, but it indicates the direction some SJW’s want to go.

    People can be controlled with subtler means than those used by the 20th century Communists.

  156. Darwinian Arminian says:

    @Novaseeker
    From a woman’s perspective, it seems quite easy to treat almost all men around them as brothers, because in their own minds, almost all men around them are de-sexualized anyway, and are not interesting from a sexual or romantic perspective. There are exceptions of course, the few that do attract, but from a woman’s point of view those can be handled as exceptional cases, and not an overwhelming risk.

    The difference in how men and women navigate the SMP certainly contributes to why you’d see a lot of church women who are eager to reduce boundaries between men and women to a matter of “just living like brothers and sisters.” But there’s another aspect to this as well: In the modern church (and in a good chunk of the rest of society as well) brotherhood comes with duties and standards attached. Sisterhood? Not so much.

    You don’t even have to look very hard to see how this plays out. Just consider one the clips from Matt Chandler that Dalrock has already played a few times in which the pastor charges the “brothers” with the responsibility of taking an ass-kicking on behalf of their “sisters.” Not husbands. Not fathers. Just single, unattached men that the pastor wants to live as if they were in hock to women in general.

    As a single man, you image headship with borrowed authority by serving and protecting women as sisters. Let me unpack that. I have an older sister and a younger sister. Here was a frequent conversation my daddy had with me. “Buddy, at school, you look out for your sisters. If some other guy is messing with your sisters, I want you to tell a teacher. If that teacher will not listen, I want you to punch them in their face and keep punching and keep punching and keep punching until an adult drags you off of that little boy. When they drag you off, what I want you to do is be like, ‘Get off me! Get off me!’ You go back at them until they… There needs to be a healthy kind of fear of you when it comes to your sisters. You protect them.”

    So if the brothers owe protection and deference to any woman who is a sister, then what do the sisters owe in response to the men who are brothers? No one seems to want to say, even in the church. I haven’t read Aimee Byrd’s book, but from everything I’ve heard from her, she doesn’t seem to want to discuss it either. As near as I can tell, most of her argument seems to boil down to complaints that too many men in the church were following the “Billy Graham Rule” and that was unfair to her because it took away some potential business opportunities and on occasion meant that no one offered her a ride. She likes to call for an ethic of “spiritual siblinghood” instead of a dreary set of rules and codes, but her standard for whether there are good relations between brothers and sisters always comes down to just one question: Are the women being served? If the answer is yes, that’s all she needs to declare it perfect and righteous. It will never occur to her to consider that the men had interests of their own that often differed from those of the women, and this is one reason why it is not hard to find many church women just like her who demand more freedoms and liberties from an old set of rules they didn’t like before turning around to ask, “Where did all the good men go?”

  157. Anonymous Reader says:

    Frank K
    I’m surprised Antifa haven’t attacked them yet, as they have “Columbus” in their name. That has to be a hate crime.

    Antifa are still mainly localized to places like Seattle, Portland, the DC area. Not a lot of the K of C visible in those areas, and they’d have to go find the right church to bother. There’s easier targets for the black-hoodies, like parades. Or badthinkers daring to speak in public without bodyguards.

    There’s some interesting video on YouTube involving Portlandia and a group called the “Hell Shakers” who protested the gay pride parade among other things. Far as I can tell only Antifa-wannabes attempted to engage them, with poor results. The “Hell Shakers” obviously lift, some of them quite seriously.

  158. anonymous_ng says:

    On whether private clubs can discriminate, here is the opinion saying that the JayCees cannot discriminate: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/468/609.html

    Again, because they weren’t terribly private.

    Interesting about male only golf clubs in Chicago.
    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2003-02-02-0302020423-story.html

    These days, I keep reflecting on Jerry Pournelle’s novels of the CoDominion, and how specifically in the novels of Falkenberg’s Legion, the pro freedom/libertarian support comes from the Russian sphere, while the statist/collectivist/authoritarian support comes from the US sphere.

  159. feministhater says:

    Women complain that men are not ‘men’ anymore whilst removing absolutely any and all endeavors and/or places and clubs that were specifically male spaces and served the male need. That would prescribe a male ethos and male mindset, thus destroying the male will to succeed and fun that would come from being able to speak ones mind among men; and not be curtailed by the feelings of women.

    Women bicker that men are immature but they are the ones that went ahead and destroyed everything men fought for and built up. There is nothing left to fight for, women destroyed the meaning behind it all anyway.

  160. feministhater says:

    For men to be men they must be separated from women. They must be taught that life consists of things other than women, pussy and sex. There must be all male clubs, all male schools, all male colleges and all male companies if men are to be men.

    Without that, men cannot become the men they were meant to be. That is all.

  161. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    I recently watched an episode of Love American Style on YouTube. I haven’t seen that show since the 1970s.

    The episode was about a short man, 5’3″, in love with a tall woman. She initially rebuffed him because he was so much shorter. He had to stand on a stool to kiss her. But in the end, she fell in love and married him — because he was such a nice guy. Kind, funny, and considerate. So he was no longer short in her eyes.

    That’s the crap I was raised on. Shows like that formed my expectations of women and dating. No wonder I didn’t have much success when I began dating in the 1980s.

  162. Frank K says:

    and how specifically in the novels of Falkenberg’s Legion, the pro freedom/libertarian support comes from the Russian sphere, while the statist/collectivist/authoritarian support comes from the US sphere.

    Who could have imagined during the height of the cold war that within just a few decades we would become the godless ones, flying rainbow flags at our overseas embassies, with red brigades (antifa) terrorizing citizens and our media-entertainment complex spreading leftist propaganda 24/7, while the Russians embraced Orthodox Christianity and renounced communism.

  163. Dale U says:

    while the Russians embraced Orthodox Christianity
    One would hope that war crimes, state-sponsored terrorism, the president lying about invasions, using the army to steal equipment and coal from a foreign country, using the army to steal entire navy ships and oil platforms, and providing guidance, men and arms to a war in another country while lying about the same is not in accord with official Orthodox Christianity.
    Of course, that is just the government and men in the army. Perhaps the general populous is gradually coming back to God; I certainly hope so.

  164. Frank K says:

    I strongly suspect that we are not provided the full story about the above mentioned incidents by our western media. I do know that we helped overthrow the democratically elected government in Ukraine replacing it with a puppet and that maybe the Russians are pushing back as we steadily surround them.

    No, I don’t think the Russians are saints. But at least they aren’t embracing the degeneracy with the gusto we have for it, and that includes our western religious leaders.

  165. Dale U says:

    I agree the media is not the best source for the complete truth.

    I do know that we helped overthrow the democratically elected government in Ukraine replacing it with a puppet
    This is a good example of inaccuracies from the media. The “news” group “RT”, which is owned/controlled by the Russian government, pushes this narrative and other lies. Whenever I hear the claim that the West, maybe the US, Germany, or England, helped in the Maidan uprising, I have to ask, “how did they help?”
    There were no foreign soldiers protecting the protesters who were being shot at by the police.
    The protesters obviously received little if any money; they had some tents (which were not uniform in appearance, as if from a supplier), they were burning used tires as a smoke screen for when the police started shooting at them, and they had wooden shields. I don’t see evidence of much wealth there. Although, I recall that the President tried to shut down tire factories, so maybe new tires were being purchased and supplied?
    Apparently a few dozen police were killed, so it is possible a foreigner handed out a limited number of guns… maybe?
    I suppose it is possible there were foreigners present in the protest crowds, to increase the numbers and stir dissent. But since some demonstrations were reported to have had at least 400,000 people in Kyiv, and over 10,000 people in each of a dozen other cities across Ukraine, I suspect that any foreigners boosting the numbers would be a tiny fraction. Russia was caught sending grandmothers to pro-Russia rallies in various Ukrainian cities, but even there, there were only a few caught. In a crowd of 10,000 people, I am more likely to think that the vast majority came on their own, unless there is evidence of mass busing / transportation.

    Too bad. If the West had helped, maybe Russia would not have walked all over Ukraine so bad for the first year after it started.

  166. ChristianCool says:

    @TheDeti

    In your “JesusLand” map… move Penn and Wisconsin back into the “Jesusland” column (red).

    California’s total population is over 52% from Mexico and Central America, so it is Mexico, fix that… maybe yellow color.

    California is a 3rd world country hellhole…. I pray to God we can get rid of it someday (since CalExit sadly failed) and put The Wall on their border too.

    Too late to save CA… I hate losing a State, but time to cut our losses and save what is left of this country. Let the Patriots come to the USA, wall it off.

    @DaleU

    RT is the ONLY reason we even knew about the thousands of rapes and sexual assults in Germany. The German media was told they would be arrested for “racism” (hate crime) if they reported on migrants raping women on the streets during New Year’s.

    RT is owned by Russia, but they report ACTUAL news. Go to YT and check “migrants in Italy”. The local EU media is all “look at these wonderful, peace-loving people” (false) and RT is exposing the crimes, street defecation in front of The Coliseum, rapes, the horrific condition of Italy today thanks to Open Borders. RT is only one reporting actual news and truth inside the EU.

  167. ChristianCool says:

    @anonymous_ng says:

    No, you are wrong. Private clubs CAN and do regularly discriminate. Ironically, The Boy Scouts of America won a Supreme Court case in this matter, they were able and legally allowed to discriminate against anyone they want, including gay males and women, for instance.

    The Black Panthers can “discriminate” and not allow non-blacks.
    The KKK can “discriminate” and not allow non-whites.
    The Girl Scouts can “discriminate” and not allow men.
    A Christian church can “discriminate” and not hire a Muslim Imam.
    AntiFa, the domestic terrorist group, can “discriminate” and not allow Conservatives.
    Italian-American clubs can “discriminate” and not allow Polish or Germans join.
    The Nation of Islam (Farrakhan hate group) can “discriminate” and not allow Jews.

    Etc etc.

    This is called “freedom of association” (and disassociation) guaranteed by the US Constitution. The issue where States are bullying Christians now is because of businesses and artists who refuse to endorse gay marriage, for instance. The Supremes will have to deal with that next and thanks to one of the top 5 greatest Presidents in US history, The Don, we now have a solid 5-4 Supreme Court that will protect Christians nationally.
    Ginsburg and Souter croak/retire in the next 5.5 years, we will have a 7-2 Court. At that point, American freedoms will have been guaranteed for the next 20 or 30 years. 🙂

    The US Supreme Court invalidated a NJ Supreme Court decision… ands this is now the law of the land. Supreme Court decisions over-ride local/State laws and regulations. That is why Supreme Court decisions on abortion, gay marriage, and ending prayer in public schools had national effects.

    The case was Boy Scouts of America et al. v. Dale, 530 U.S. 640 (2000). Rehnquist wrote the decision and he explained that Associations do not have to associate for the “purpose” of disseminating a certain message in order to be entitled to the protections of the First Amendment (like a political group for instance). An association must merely engage in expressive activity that could be impaired in order to be entitled to protection (example: boys getting together to go camping – like The Scouts).

    To think The Scouts, a now morally-defunct group once fought for freedom is amazing.

    Please look up the decision. Private organizations CAN and LEGALLY discriminate all the time.

    Ps. If you live in leftist places like California or Oregon, for instance, you will still be bullied by local “equality boards” by local and State govts (these little obscure “civil rights” Commissions/boards like the ones that went after Christian florists, artists, and even that Christian baker in CO. These are rogue leftists States. They ignore any laws and Court decisions they do not like (i.e. Sancturay Cities for criminal illegal aliens), etc.

  168. BillyS says:

    Ukraine was a part of Russia for a long time, especially the Black Sea port area. Expecting Russia to just back off is foolish. The US couldn’t even handle several states leaving after less than 100 years, yet we take issue with a concern well outside our scope of interest that has much more historical precedent.

  169. Dale U says:

    Actually, much of the Russian geological area was a part of the Kyvian empire for a long time. But yes, Russia has had control of Crimea for a long time. That does not excuse evil behaviour however, whether on the part of US, England, Russia, or anyone else.

    I am pretty sure you are right that Russia will not back off however. No one who engages in that type of behaviour will back down, same as Hitler, Genghis Khan, Napoleon, etc. You either force the bully to stop, or watch while he does what he wants.

  170. Frank K says:

    You either force the bully to stop, or watch while he does what he wants.

    Funny that you should say that, given that we are considered to be the world’s biggest bully. I mean, just ask any non-American.

    I suppose that we should just teach those uppity Russians their place.

  171. Paul says:

    Luckily the United States of America IS the world’s biggest bully. Imagine a world where Russia, China, North-Korea or Pakistan is the world’s biggest bully.

  172. Gunner Q says:

    Anonymous Reader @ November 29, 2018 at 12:40 pm:
    “People can be controlled with subtler means than those used by the 20th century Communists.”

    Nah, this has ever been so with oppressive governments. “Papers, please”. Technology is the only difference. I guarantee the atrocities are coming. It’s human nature.

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