He knelt like a true gentleman.

Pulpit & Pen writes in Beth Moore Has Man Get on His Knees, Apologize on Behalf of All Men (emphasis mine):

Moore started her career as a teacher for women, but now preaches to both genders. Evangelical leaders like John Piper have encouraged men to listen to her violations of 1 Timothy 2:12. Not deterred by Scriptural admonitions against women teaching doctrine or preaching to men, Moore has gradually become a chief proponent of evangelical feminism.

Note that Pulpit & Pen has (probably unknowingly) accepted Piper and Grudem’s innovation even while criticizing Piper.  Piper and Grudem were so successful in twisting 1 Tim 2:12 that no one remembers a time before their innovation was adopted.  I would encourage the Pulpit & Pen authors to revisit what Piper and Grudem have done here.  Even though their novel reading of 1 Tim 2:12 is all but universally accepted today, I’ve yet to encounter someone who accepted the twisted logic they used to arrive at their feminist conclusion.  In a nutshell, if you want to say the Apostle Paul only restricted women from preaching to men, you have to determine as Piper, Grudem, and Moo did that when Paul writes in 1 Tim 2:14 (ESV):

14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

that Paul was not saying that women are more easily deceived, as Christians believed until second wave feminism.  Instead, you have to decide that Paul was merely repeating what he wrote in verse 13, that men were created before women:

First Timothy 2:14 says, “Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.” Paul gives this as one of the reasons why he does not permit women “to teach or have authority over a man.” Historically this has usually been taken to mean that women are more gullible or deceivable than men and therefore less fit for the doctrinal oversight of the church. This may be true (see question 29). However, we are attracted to another understanding of Paul’s argument. We think that Satan’s main target was not Eve’s peculiar gullibility (if she had one), but rather Adam’s headship as the one ordained by God to be responsible for the life of the garden…

If this is the proper understanding, then what Paul meant in 1 Timothy 2:14 was this:  “Adam was not deceived (that is, Adam was not approached by the deceiver and did not carry on direct dealings with the deceiver), but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor (that is, she was the one who took up dealings with the deceiver and was led through her direct interaction with him into deception and transgression).”

This is nonsense, but it is absolutely required if you are going to claim that 1 Tim 2:12 permits women to preach to women.  Otherwise, as Dr. Moo explains women preaching to women is a prescription for disaster:

But a statement about the nature of women per se would move the discussion away from this central issue [women having authority over men], and it would have a serious and strange implication. After all, does Paul care only that the women not teach men false doctrines? Does he not care that they not teach them to other women?

Getting back to Pulpit & Pen’s main point in the article:

Beth Moore is fully “woke” and fully feminist, and to prove it, she had a man literally get on his knees before a crowd of women and apologize for the male gender.

The idea that Kevin Jones – who Moore acknowledges is a “gentleman” – should apologize for those guilty of abuse, is asinine. Kevin Jones did nothing wrong, supposedly, and he is not imputed with the sin of abusers by virtue of his genitalia.

Beth Moore is a dangerous woman whose influence far surpasses her capability as a Bible teacher. She is ignorant and unlearned, and has become a useful idiot for the political Left.

Note how naturally chivalry complements feminism here.  Far from being the “antidote” for feminism, chivalry is the foundation for feminism.  Men kneeling and pleading to women is central to the imagery of courtly love, so as a good gentleman it isn’t at all surprising that Kevin Jones was eager to act out his role in Beth Moore’s feminist skit.

HT purge187

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This entry was posted in Aging Feminists, Beth Moore, Chivalry, Complementarian, Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, Courtly Love, Dr. Douglass Moo, Dr. John Piper, Dr. Wayne Grudem, Feminists, Pulpit & Pen, Traditional Conservatives, Turning a blind eye, Ugly Feminists, Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

86 Responses to He knelt like a true gentleman.

  1. Pingback: He knelt like a true gentleman. | @the_arv

  2. SnapperTrx says:

    *heretics everywhere meme here*

  3. Anonymous Reader says:

    The path Beth Moore walks…

  4. feministhater says:

    Kevin Jones disgusts me. Pathetic weasel.

  5. David J. says:

    The understanding to which Piper/Grudem/Moo are attracted certainly seems incompatible on its face with the English translation. Do they make some kind of argument that the Greek has been poorly translated into English in this passage? If the historical interpretation is correct (and I’m inclined to think it is), what do we make of Titus 2:3-5: “Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.” Older women are not merely authorized but commanded to teach the younger women “what is good.” Given the punctuation, the natural reading is that “what is good” is defined by topics listed in the remainder of the sentence — love for husband and children, self-control, purity, working at home, kindness, and submission to their husbands.

    From the two passages, it seems the straightforward understanding is that no woman should teach men, no young woman (undefined?) should teach anyone, and an older woman (undefined?) can/should teach only younger women the listed topics but nothing beyond those (such as doctrine in general, theology in general, etc.). Makes sense to me.

  6. Cane Caldo says:

    as Christians believed until the 1990s.

    Women’s Bible studies have been around since I can remember, so I suspect the movement is earlier than that. Grudem and co. merely codified what was already accepted. “Conserving the liberal innovation” it, as Zippy (RIP) might have said.

    [D: Thank you. I’ve corrected the OP to state second wave feminism instead.]

  7. Lexet Blog says:

    I have always read Titus as a strict limitation on what women can teach – they are all practical things.
    Why would a woman be permitted to teach in the Bible if she is commanded to be silent in church, and to ask her husband (1 Timothy 2:11)(1 cor 14:35)

    I also cannot read Timothy as authorizing women to be deacons. Timothy addresses the fact that a deacon’s wife must meet certain qualifications.

  8. Dalrock says:

    @David J

    The understanding to which Piper/Grudem/Moo are attracted certainly seems incompatible on its face with the English translation. Do they make some kind of argument that the Greek has been poorly translated into English in this passage?

    No. They merely say they like it better, and that their interpretation is “grammatically unobjectionable”:

    C. Is Every Kind of Teaching Prohibited, Or Only Teaching of Men?

    Is Paul prohibiting women from all teaching? We do not think so. The word man (andros), which is plainly the object of the verb have authority (authentein), should be construed as the object of the verb teach also. This construction is grammatically unobjectionable,

    They continue by arguing that if you assume Paul means for women to only be prohibited from preaching to men, then Paul must have only been prohibiting women from preaching to men. It is a circular argument:

    and it alone suits the context, in which Paul bases the prohibitions of verse 12 on the created differences between men and women (verse 13). Indeed, as we have argued, this male/female differentiation pervades this passage and comes to direct expression in the word that immediately precedes verse 12, submission. Paul’s position in the pastoral epistles is, then, consistent: he allows women to teach other women (Titus 2:3-4), 17 but prohibits them to teach men.

    You further ask:

    If the historical interpretation is correct (and I’m inclined to think it is), what do we make of Titus 2:3-5: “Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.” Older women are not merely authorized but commanded to teach the younger women “what is good.” Given the punctuation, the natural reading is that “what is good” is defined by topics listed in the remainder of the sentence — love for husband and children, self-control, purity, working at home, kindness, and submission to their husbands.

    Dr. Moo answers the basic question in their book with:

    In light of these considerations, we argue that the teaching prohibited to women here includes what we would call preaching (note 2 Timothy 4:2: “Preach the word . . . with careful instruction” [teaching, didache ̄]), and the teaching of Bible and doctrine in the church, in colleges, and in seminaries. Other activities-leading Bible studies, for instance-may be included, depending on how they are done. Still others-evangelistic witnessing, counseling, teaching subjects other than Bible or doctrine-are not, in our opinion, teaching in the sense Paul intends here.

    But as you do above, he then assumes that if older women are to teach younger women to obey their husbands, etc, that they must be permitted to preach to women. Like you, he sees no difference between an older woman admonishing younger women to behave appropriately, and Beth Moore going on stage to preach. Note what you are allowing to slip in here with your assumption. If you are right, then the whole trend of sending women to separate women’s teachers to learn what the Bible means is right on, but Christians just got it wrong for 2000 years until feminists set us straight. Why, I might ask, did Paul then tell wives to ask their husbands for biblical instruction, when he really wanted them to ask Beth Moore?

    Edit: In my haste I clearly misread your comment on Titus 2. My apologies.

    Either way, see my full post on the topic for more detail: https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2016/03/07/the-biblical-case-for-women-teaching-women/

  9. Cane Caldo says:

    From a “charismatic Christian” article on the kneeling of drummer Kevin Jones:

    She described Jones’ apology, saying “he humbly & gladly stood before those women and on behalf of all men who had hurt them, voiced words like these: ‘I am so sorry. Would you forgive us?’ He told them of their worth and prayed on his knees for them.”

    Moore said tears began falling and that the Holy Spirit fell on the women. “How much more Christlike could this brother have been?” she asked. “He had committed no such sins against women. But he stood before them representing those who had. It was one of the most powerful things I’ve ever seen.”

    https://www.charismanews.com/us/73522-beth-moore-holy-spirit-fell-on-us-as-drummer-asks-forgiveness-for-the-way-men-have-hurt-women

    For starters, Christ didn’t apologize to His Church, or the world. Nor do I believe that the Holy Spirit had anything to do with this false moment.

  10. Dalrock says:

    David J, it looks like I’ve misread your statement on Titus 2. My apologies!

  11. JRob says:

    In other news, Beth Moore apologized to hard-working family men for Baptiskanks everywhere for divorce rape, abject shrewery, dead bedrooming, and the taking of penises from random criminals. /s

    Another example of why the churchian divorce rate equals or exceeds that of the culture at large.

    http://www.wadeburleson.org/2014/03/the-increasing-divorce-rate-among.html
    I post this link to (yet again) show you can’t throw a stick without proving the accuracy of Dalrock’s commentary. Connect-the -dots.

    If you can make it, notice the complementarianism blaming those who don’t follow it on the divorce rates. Rome is burning. Pass the marshmallows.

  12. David J. says:

    Dalrock: No problem. And thanks for the reminder of your earlier post. Good stuff.

    I find it interesting (I’m trying not to find it dismaying) that my very conservative Dutch reformed church (a very firm line against women teaching men in any setting, women holding any office in the church, women being on the platform during services for any function, and most if not all children’s Sunday School catechism classes taught by men) that the women’s Bible study, led by an older woman, is not strictly limited to the topics listed in Titus but includes studying books of the Bible (currently Psalms) using curriculum written by women (albeit theologically conservative women). We don’t appear to be entirely consistent with the plain text of scripture on this. I’ll have to find out when in the denomination’s history this became accepted.

  13. JRob says:

    From the above linked blog post, the “best” parts:

    “The leaders of our Southern Baptist Convention have been strongly promoting a doctrinal error called The Eternal Subordination of the Son. The devastating effects of this doctrine on marriages are far-reaching. Few Southern Baptists even know what this doctrine is, but when you go to a church led by a Southern Baptist pastor who promotes it, the emphasis of the teaching will be on “the authority of the husband” and “the subordination of the woman to her husband” (just like Jesus is allegedly eternally subordinate to the Father). When the emphasis in any Christian environment (home, church, marriage, etc…) is on authority, a breach in relationship is ripe.”

    and

    “1). Nobody in marriage has any inherent “authority.” Christ has all authority, and He sends His Spirit to live within us, dispenses spiritual gifts for us, and provides loving watch care over us so that we might learn how to love and serve each other.”

  14. earl says:

    Did m’lady reward her knave?

    In any case Paul was repeating the fall of man story in Genesis. Perhaps it slipped her mind.

  15. There might be a large price paid for allowing Christian churches to become feminist hotspots. We can only guess, but here is one possibility (I doubt if I need explain).

    Conversions to Islam will reshape the West
    https://fabiusmaximus.com/2018/05/10/a-big-future-for-islam-in-the-west/

  16. Swanny River says:

    JRob,
    I read through the comments. Only counter comment I saw was from DASgamer.
    Talk about itching ears. They really want no rules and a church’s approval.

    There is a civil war in our country and in the church and those comments illustrate it. They hate people like me and I am praying against them.

  17. Dalrock says:

    @David J.

    I find it interesting (I’m trying not to find it dismaying) that my very conservative Dutch reformed church (a very firm line against women teaching men in any setting, women holding any office in the church, women being on the platform during services for any function, and most if not all children’s Sunday School catechism classes taught by men) that the women’s Bible study, led by an older woman, is not strictly limited to the topics listed in Titus but includes studying books of the Bible (currently Psalms) using curriculum written by women (albeit theologically conservative women). We don’t appear to be entirely consistent with the plain text of scripture on this. I’ll have to find out when in the denomination’s history this became accepted.

    I read Titus 2 not as a formal Bible study, but as mentoring. Older women observing how younger women are living, and advising them to act the way Christian women should behave. The feminist goal is to use this kind of mentoring as an excuse to set up women’s Bible studies, which is the fundamental problem in my opinion. Once you have that, it doesn’t help that much if you only have Beth Moore preaching on what the real meaning of submission is. You still have Beth Moore preaching. And if anything, you are focusing her on the areas she is most likely to do damage. I don’t think this was difficult for Christians until feminism took hold. It is I would say quite obvious, unless you start from a feminist perspective.

  18. Days of Broken Arrows says:

    So, conversely, does this mean that I can stand proud and thump my chest on behalf of all the men who have built and invented things that benefited women? “Hey babe see that street over there? Yep! WE’RE responsible for designing and paving it! All men! Including MEEE!! And how ’bout that dishwasher, and the home computer, and…”

  19. David J. says:

    @Dalrock: Yes, I can see that it may be mentoring rather than teaching in a women’s gathering, which I’m not sure occurred in the early church anyway. The use of the word “train” supports the mentoring take. And of course one of the primary means of such mentoring by the older women would have been their example of love for and submission to their own husbands.

  20. Oscar says:

    However, we are attracted to another understanding of Paul’s argument.

    That is such a passive, effeminate statement that it makes my skin crawl every time I read it.

    As for Kevin Jones; Who does he think he is, Jesus Christ? Because last I checked, Jesus Christ is the only one who can take another’s sin upon himself and perform atonement for it.

  21. Darwinian Arminian says:

    Beth Moore is fully “woke” and fully feminist, and to prove it, she had a man literally get on his knees before a crowd of women and apologize for the male gender.

    When you think about it, this is actually kind of a perfect illustration of what modern evangelical Christianity is for both sides of the gender divide.

    If you’re a woman you’ll get free grace to the point where the leaders look at the image of God on His throne with the nations bowing before Him before turning to you to say: “I think you should be sitting there.”

    If you’re a man you’ll prostrate yourself in continuous acts of penance for sins that you didn’t even get around to committing — and it still won’t get you any forgiveness.

  22. MKT says:

    “You still have Beth Moore preaching. And if anything, you are focusing her on the areas she is most likely to do damage.”

    What’s worse, Moore doesn’t just teach on the Bible and interpret/misinterpret it. As P&P has pointed out many times, she also claims to have “visions” and other special revelation from God that she teaches on.
    https://pulpitandpen.org/2015/01/12/beth-moore-confronts-young-pastors-wife-for-criticizing-her-direct-divine-revelation/

    I don’t want to start a debate on continuing revelation, charismatic teachings, etc., but this can only go in bad directions when people like Moore think God has taught them something unique…

  23. BJ says:

    Apologies if I am missing something, but why do you claim that Pulpit and Pen hold to the same position as Piper and Grudem, even if unknowingly?

  24. David J. says:

    @BJ: P&P apparently has no objection to Moore teaching/preaching to women, only to men. “Moore started her career as a teacher for women, but now preaches to both genders. . . . Not deterred by Scriptural admonitions against women teaching doctrine or preaching to men . . . .”

  25. SirHamster says:

    Pulpit and Pen makes the following statement, which is incorrect.

    Of course, there is nothing in Scripture that suggests any individual can apologize for the sins of someone else, least alone an entire gender.

    That is exactly the function of a priest. Jesus is our high priest.

    “Every high priest is selected from among the people and is appointed to represent the people in matters related to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and are going astray, since he himself is subject to weakness. This is why he has to offer sacrifices for his own sins, as well as for the sins of the people. And no one takes this honor on himself, but he receives it when called by God, just as Aaron was.” -Heb 5:1-4

    The significance of the band drummer apologizing for his sex is that
    1.) He was called by Beth Moore
    2.) He is apologizing to women for the “sins” of men

    Goddess idolatry.

  26. Joe says:

    I had seen that clip that Beth so salivates over. Disgusted doesn’t come close. I just wanna puke. That guy and every guy who agrees lost their man-card, if they ever had one. I’m sick of these so called “men” pandering, capitulating and licking women’s feet SO THAT WOMEN WILL LIKE THEM and say how great they are. Pathetic. Jesus wept.

    My wife knows that Beth Moore and her ilk (pretty much all female “teachers”) are not allowed in our home, and she knows to never even consider attending one of her “Bible Studies” or any other female teacher or read their books. Likewise my adult daughter.

    Even if her early stuff was scriptural(1), she’s off the rails now. But that’s how Satan works. Start of with scripture, trap the “silly women”(2) into follower HER. Then once they follow HER, they start falling for the rest of her garbage as she descends into teaching contrary to the Bible.

    (1) What people don’t understand is that it does not matter how scriptural the material is that a woman wants to teach. The Bible says “don’t do it”. There’s a price to pay for violating that.

    (2) For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
    2 Tim 3:6

  27. JRob says:

    @Swanny River

    His was the ONLY voice of reason there. I’ll post the comment in Burleson’s post:
    “theasdgamer said…
    No wonder divorce is so common among SB’s nowadays, with such scripture twisting about wifely submission. The wife and husband aren’t equal in roles or authority, just like a lead and follow aren’t equal in roles or authority when dancing. Leads direct and follows submit. If there’s a problem in SBC theology, its that it has accepted feminist ideas about women’s equality. Follows typically get to do the cool turns and get the attention. Leads and follows are complementary in roles, as husbands and wives should be. Wives ought to submit to the husbands, as Paul teaches. Husbands are to cherish and nourish their wives. Paul gave different commands to each.
    Thu Aug 07, 02:03:00 PM 2014 ”

    Wade Burleson actually commented here awhile back, and didn’t stay long IIRC.
    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2016/05/30/comment-of-the-month/

  28. Pingback: He knelt like a true gentleman. | Reaction Times

  29. A says:

    The man is a contemptible faggot. She is the devil.

  30. drifter says:

    Along with “mentoring”, I would add modeling. Like mentoring, it’s more personal and hands-on. Rather than performing from a stage or pulpit, it’s a relationship had between grandmothers/mothers and their youngers.

    And that’s part of the rub for the Beth Moores. They want the spotlight.

  31. Lost Patrol says:

    However, we are attracted to another understanding of Paul’s argument.

    That is such a passive, effeminate statement that it makes my skin crawl every time I read it.

    Probably affects you that way because it is a practical example of cravenness, in both word and deed.

    Definition of craven – Merriam Webster

    1 archaic : defeated, vanquished

    2 : lacking the least bit of courage : contemptibly fainthearted

    In 1991 these men had already capitulated. ‘Yes, we’ve studied the Bible for many years (they’re both in their 40s at this point) and understand what is plainly said therein about women in authority and teaching. BUT, our womenfolk are offended by these concepts and it is easy enough to modify our understanding so as to keep a lid on. So that’s what we did. Furthermore, modified understandings will continue until we achieve peace for our time (nod to Chamberlin).’

    ‘Lack peace in your marriages and/or church hierarchies? Stay with the plan. You know what understandings to be attracted to. Follow our lead.’

  32. Sharkly says:

    Women’s Bible studies…
    LOL
    My wife went to one at one church where all they apparently did was gossiped and bitched about their husbands, and comforted each other as they were all somehow or another “abuse victims”.
    Later, after finding written evidence that they had told my wife to run out on me, I made an appointment and confronted the head pastor. I asked him, who was the man in charge of their women’s ministries? He replied that it was actually run by a woman, because it was a woman’s group. I laughed and asked him, if he also had a child running the children’s ministry and a toddler running the nursery? He got my point, but not before I had pushed his White Knight activator button. When I had showed him my proof that the woman leading the group and others had counseled my wife to run out on me because she was unhaaaappy. He claimed zero responsibility because the lady who had led the group had since left their church, and the group was no longer meeting. So, It’s all good! I told him he was a fool and that I held him responsible, and that if he ever saw my wife at his church again he was to tell her to leave because her husband had made it clear that he did not want her to be there under the influence of fools. The guy was quite conflicted.(double-minded) He couldn’t argue with me scripturally, but every fiber of his being opposed me and my leadership. Their women’s group seemed to be a preparatory class for frivorce. And the crazy lady that was trying the hardest to get my wife to ditch her marriage to save it,(ala Fireproof) has of course since been divorced while trying that foolishness herself.

  33. Oscar says:

    @ Lost Patrol

    Probably affects you that way because it is a practical example of cravenness, in both word and deed.

    Yep. That’s a good observation.

  34. purge187 says:

    I left a comment on the article to remind folks of what Paul said about women pastors, but it’s gone now. Shocker.

  35. earl says:

    Isn’t this just another example of virtue signaling?

    So he’s apologizing for ‘all men’…did he ever hurt a woman specifically?

  36. MKT says:

    “Isn’t this just another example of virtue signaling?”

    More like virtue signaling on steroids and amphetamines. Standard virtue signaling is a pastor making a passing comment about “women being under-represented and mistreated by the church for centuries” or something. This guy is going full scapegoat.

  37. feministhater says:

    I keep telling you gents. You cannot negotiate with women. You need to tell them ‘no’. Do not argue with them. If they start arguing or debating, just leave them alone. They are toxic.

  38. Anonymous Reader says:

    Beth Moore apparently issued a fitness test to Kevin Jones, and he failed dramatically.

    I am no scholar of the Bible, but it looks to me that every single argument that has arisen in the last century around the relationship between man and wife can be reduced to a single form:

    God really said that?

    Theological implications left for the more qualified.

  39. Dave says:

    This guy was technically her employee, so it came down to the stronger urge of the two….

    Maintaining his his own self respect…… or keeping his job…… he made his choice, though his choice may have saved his paycheck, I doubt it will ever be forgotten by real men who will view him as forever weak in spirit and self-worth.

  40. Ray6777 says:

    The biggest virtue signallers like this guy are always found to be the worst sexual harassers. Always. Male feminists.

  41. Spike says:

    In Australia some years ago, we had a formal ”apology to the Stolen Generations” – the stolen generations being aboriginal children taken away from their parents and placed into adoption and foster care. These were done by the government of the time because they self-evidently saw that the outcomes of children left with their parents was dismal and the children would die.

    There was a massive outpouring of grief, tears, calls for compensation to the ”Stolen Generation” and a thick lathering of white guilt upon those, like me, a second generation descendent of Europeans, who had nothing to do with it.

    Years down the track , the condition of Australia’s aborigines are still rotten and wretched by any measure: infant mortality, illiteracy, sexual abuse, alcoholism, teen and out of wedlock pregnancy, drug abuse malnutrition , obesity, diabetes – the list goes on and on.

    So, gestures like Kevin Jones’ are pointless window dressing. He did nothing wrong, and as a Christian man he should be getting on his knee only for his Lord. No one else. Were it me, I would politely decline.
    Oh, and another thing: it is wrong to say, ”he didn’t personally sin against these women….’
    We WRONG people. We SIN against God. They are two different things.

  42. Robert What? says:

    I do not accede to his apology on my behalf.

  43. Darwinian Arminian says:

    @Dave
    This guy was technically her employee, so it came down to the stronger urge of the two….
    Maintaining his his own self respect…… or keeping his job…… he made his choice, though his choice may have saved his paycheck, I doubt it will ever be forgotten by real men who will view him as forever weak in spirit and self-worth.

    Moore’s not the first church leader to pull something like this on the men she oversees, and I doubt she’ll be the last. This is a bit of old news, but earlier this year the Christian hipster magazine Relevant published a piece openly calling on churches to use the Pound #MeToo movement to whip the few men they still have left into shape. The writer (a woman, of course) seemed to particularly gush over this occurrence as a perfect example of what needs to do be done:

    “As #MeToo was sweeping across the internet, San Francisco Bay Area pastor Brad Wong led the men in his congregation to kneel during the Sunday morning service and audibly confess any of the ways that they had dishonored or disrespected women . . .

    . . . These specific men are choosing to interrupt their brothers at least in part because they get it. I reached out to Wong to ask what prompted him to lead the men in his congregation to repent. He explained: I was reading through the [#MeToo] Facebook posts, many of them written by friends carrying wounds of which I was completely unaware. It was really a terrible and painful thing. I thought to write my own FB post, expressing grief and solidarity. But, words alone did not seem to suffice.”

    It used to be the case that your pastor might look up to someone like Billy Graham or Charles Spurgeon as their model to emulate. If the trend here keeps up then we can look forward to a new generation of ministers that does this with Laventri Beria: Show them the man, they’ll show you the sin. And the women will cheer in their public show trials.

    Link to the Relevant article is here: https://relevantmagazine.com/culture/if-we-want-less-metoo-stories-heres-what-has-to-happen/

  44. sipcode says:

    The following is a comment a sent recently to a woman’s blog that she did not post. It is related to the topic here and about 1 Tim 2:14 and 1 Peter 3:7:

    I understand your desire to encourage women to fulfill their different and important Biblical role, and agree with the “tender consideration” for the woman, but disagree that it primarily goes with 1 Peter 3:7.

    I respond to your question “What does ‘weaker vessel’ include when written about women?” The church preaches, as does this post, that this primarily means she is physically ‘weaker.’ This ‘weaker’ word is the same Greek word used in “…but the flesh is weak” in Matt 26:41 and Mark 14:38, ‘asthenes’ 772G. Certainly Christ is talking here about the ability of all to overcome sin, to not deceive ourselves into sin, to be transformed for the deception of sin. And Peter is saying in 1 Peter 3:7 that women are weaker in self-deception than men ….and men need to understand this by ‘dwelling with women according to the knowledge’ of this as “he shall rule over thee.”

    This ‘weaker’ is about the character and the integrity of the woman. It is about her being ‘against spiritual knowledge and power.’ “Asthenes comes from ‘a’ 1G = ‘without or against,’ and ‘sthenoo’ 4599G = ‘vigor, strength, spiritual knowledge and power.’ Women have a special internal ‘desire’ to be against spiritual knowledge, as God noted in the woman’s ‘desire’ to take the rule of the man in Genesis 3:16, to be rebellious. The Greek ‘asthenes’ and its related variations in 769-772G mean: ‘feeble, diseased, impotent, a scruple of conscience, infirmity, strengthless, malady, frailty.’ And from a logical position, ‘weaker’ in 1 Peter 3:7 cannot refer to physical, for women are overall quite strong and durable and live long, doing great physical work. This ‘weaker’ cannot be talking about blanketing all women as physically feeble or diseased.

    There are two ways to be deceived: ignorantly or willfully; one internal, the other external. In one, someone lies to you and you unsuspectingly believe what they say without knowing the answer for yourself. That was not Eve in the Garden. The other is deceiving yourself, willfully ignoring the answer that you already know. That was Eve in the Garden. She knew not to eat of that fruit, having told the Serpent the very commandment of God, but her lust of flesh and pride of life overruled her being true to self. This is the “weaker” that Paul speaks of in women in 1 Tim 2:14; this is the “but the woman, being deceived was in the transgression”; and notably Paul says that “Adam was not deceived.” Again, ‘deceived’ means Eve clearly knew what she was eating [Gen 3:2-6 defines this deception] …and Paul notes she ‘transgressed being deceived,’ while never saying Adam transgressed and specifically saying “Adam was not deceived” …that is, knowledgeable of what he was eating. I suggest this is why the serpent approached Eve and not Adam, although there is not scripture to directly note this. Further, don’t mix this point with God holding Adam RESPONSIBLE for the sin in the Garden because it was his house that sinned, that he was responsible for.

    Secondly, this post and 1 Peter 3 address “Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge…” Certainly the purpose of this is for the man to lead the marriage as ‘one’ with his wife toward the purpose of “being heirs together of the grace of life” …to glorify God in obedience to His Word. The order of delivery of the phrases in the KJV seems to be misleading or in error, because in the Greek ‘rendering honor’ goes with ‘as joint heirs’ and ‘according to knowledges goes’ with ‘as the weaker vessel.’ This makes more sense with the meaning of the words as the man needs to remain knowledgeable about her Genesis 3:16 ‘desire,’ while yet honoring her with love and discipline, as he does for himself …as heirs to His kingdom so that his household is blessed, like the if-then of 2 Chron 7:14 or Matt 6:33. Honoring her is holding her to the Word of God –the Lord chastens whom He loves. That is love as Christ defines: keeping His commandments.

    And, this knowledge includes understanding that women are manipulators, as Genesis 3:16 notes her permanent desire for the authority of the man. Ester Vilar’s book ‘The Manipulated Man’ has excellent experiential perspective on this. This is why God does not want men hearkening to the voice of the woman [Genesis 3:17, giving up his lead]; women can play men like a fiddle, and anyone who has been around the block knows it. I believe Italian author Constanza Miriano properly notes where this comes from: “Women are not free from the need to be recognized [not living 1 Cor 11:7].” “A woman at peace with herself does not need to be recognized.”

    Pastor Doug Wilson addresses this ‘weaker’ and ‘knowledgeable’ with: “ ’repent and believe’ is one that can still be delivered to men. …But that is not the case anymore with women. Any counselor who actually tries to address feminine shortcomings in a dysfunctional relationship is a brave counselor ……in the counseling I have done over the years, the thing that usually wrecks the woman’s joy is not the fact that her sin is equivalent to the man’s, or greater than the man’s, or less than the man’s, but rather the fact that her sin is untouchable. We are dealing with a culture-wide insistence that women not be held responsible for what they do.”

    Finally, Scripture warns all about CERTAIN men, but then Scripture warns men about ALL women. There are too many to list here, but certainly “Who can find a virtuous woman?” Proverbs 31:10 highlights the purpose of God’s use of the word ‘weaker’ for all to acknowledge and understand. This does not diminish one iota the man’s great need and desire for the woman, for the tender and beautiful creation of God.

  45. BillyS says:

    Daniel did repent on behalf of his people in Daniel 9, in spite of him having no personal guilt for the issue.

    This doesn’t make Beth Moore teaching OK, but the principle of standing for others is in the Scriptures.

  46. BillyS says:

    An addition about Daniel repenting: He did it to God, not others. I don’t see it as wrong per se, but it is definitely abused today, especially by many who cannot get past real or imagined hurts.

    MKT,

    I guess you would consider me a heretic too since God has directly told me (no appearances, just the voice in my head some don’t like, though Paul implies appearances, so that is Scripturally allowed) some things, though they always have lined up with what is Written (as they must).

  47. BillyS says:

    I have had many male pastors (including associate pastors and such) tell me that men cannot teach women, or basically hold them accountable, that such must be left to women. (Such as a pastor’s wife Bible study relatively few women attend.)

    Thus few women are every taught they are easily deceived, as the Scriptures note, nor that they can sin just as much as any man.

  48. MKT says:

    BillyS: I didn’t call anyone a heretic and said I didn’t want to sidetrack the discussion. I simply noted that Beth isn’t only “teaching” the Scriptures; she’s also teaching lessons from her “visions” which can’t be validated by anyone else.

  49. Jeff Strand says:

    Feminism is cancer. It is straight from the pit of Hell.

  50. Pingback: A surprise end to the gender wars: men stand together - Fabius Maximus website

  51. Hmm says:

    @Spike,

    We can sin against other people, at least if we believe Jesus’ words in Matthew 18.

  52. Scott says:

    I read Titus 2 not as a formal Bible study, but as mentoring. Older women observing how younger women are living, and advising them to act the way Christian women should behave. The feminist goal is to use this kind of mentoring as an excuse to set up women’s Bible studies, which is the fundamental problem in my opinion. Once you have that, it doesn’t help that much if you only have Beth Moore preaching on what the real meaning of submission is. You still have Beth Moore preaching. And if anything, you are focusing her on the areas she is most likely to do damage. I don’t think this was difficult for Christians until feminism took hold. It is I would say quite obvious, unless you start from a feminist perspective.

    All “Bible Study” groups (women’s or whatever) now conform to a group therapy/chasing the rabbit format.

    They fall into two main categories:

    The first is where the leader of the group has gone and found a devotional/study handbook for small groups and is going through the handbook week by week.

    The second is ostensibly one where a particular passage, book or segment of the text is being analyzed verse by verse to glean new truths and application for daily living.

    Both eventually devolve into a situation where everyone in the room has an opportunity to opine subjectively about “what this verse says to me” or whatever. Everyone else nods in agreement no matter how stupid and out of step with the objective truths elsewhere in the scripture (or in my case what the proper hierarchical framework and histororical/traditional hegemony has settled and canonized.)

    SOMETIMES the group leader tries to round up the rabbit chase and bring things back around and on target using logic, reason, rationality and sound hermeneutics. But since the modern zeitgeist is that everyone should be heard and validated, the subjectivity reigns supreme!

    Don’t go to Bible studies. If you do, pay close attention. You may hear the faint sound of Bible knowledge and intelligence leaking out of your ear.

  53. Roger says:

    “…she had a man literally get on his knees before a crowd of women and apologize for the male gender.”
    I don’t what disgusts me more: her triumphalism or his pathetic spinelessness. Feminism is fundamentally a manipulative scheme using shaming techniques. Of course, female attempts to shame men are as old as humanity and have been part of the routine give-and-take between the sexes, but only with feminism has this shaming been turned into an ideology. The search for things to shame us for is becoming desperate, as they invent ever new slights: mansplaining, manspreading, and who knows what next. They’re good at finding a pea of oppression under twenty mattresses, and once begun, their shaming rants pick up momentum. Sometimes I think these harpies must have orgasms every time they manage to get a man to apologize to them. One wants to shout back at them: “No, I am NOT going to apologize to you for being male!” But at the same time I want to shout at the men who instantly cave in to their shaming: “Just stop it!”

  54. Heidi says:

    From an advice column on Slate:

    https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/10/should-i-leave-my-husband-parenting-advice.html

    “I’ve been married for a little under five years, and during that time I’ve found myself raising not only a child but also a husband. I have a lot of affection for him and often tell myself how lucky I am to have found a man who is patient and understanding and who mostly does what I ask him to without complaining….My problem is that over the years I have lost a lot of respect for him and have recently come to realize that I don’t love him at all.” [I guess she’s failing in her leadership.]

    “We’ve had a number of talks about this and tried counseling before, to no avail.” [There’s a shocker. Counseling’s usually so good at working out marital problems!]

    “I sometimes wonder if there are others out there my husband and I are better suited for—two people who could meet more of our individual needs (emotionally and physically).” [Yeah, there’s probably someone out there who could refrain from heaping blistering contempt on her husband; you, lady, I don’t know about.]

    All in all, I’m terrified I’m wasting my “youth” (mid-30s is still youthful!) in a loveless marriage.” [Mid-30s and with a kid is not “youthful”–it’s time to be a grownup and raise your kid alongside the man you chose to marry and chose to procreate with.]

  55. Vektor says:

    Mr. Jones does not speak for me.

  56. Oscar says:

    Mr. Jones is not my Great High Priest, nor is he my atonement, nor is he my scapegoat. Jesus Christ is. And if Mr. Jones thinks he can atone for other men’s sins, that doesn’t make him a “gentleman”. It makes him a megalomaniac.

  57. DR Smith says:

    I’ve never apologized to any woman for being or acting like a man, especially my wife. In fact, I do stuff that I know will set her off just (like turn off the TV she was watch if it has something I object to, like just about anything on mainstream media including Fox news). She will get mad and rail against me and i let her get her word in – but I don;t apologize and I don’t say I’ll never do it again, because we both know I will. This is the essence of dread or keeping a woman on her toes..

    Mr Jones never learned this lessen; Beth Moore needs to learn it. Tha or a good bitch slap would work, too.

  58. Joe says:

    “Roger says:
    October 10, 2018 at 6:48 am
    “…she had a man literally get on his knees before a crowd of women and apologize for the male gender.”
    I don’t what disgusts me more: her triumphalism or his pathetic spinelessness.”
    ****************************************************************************************************

    Without his pathetic spinelessness, she would have no triumphalism.

    So his pathetic spinelessness is the most disgusting.

  59. Damn Crackers says:

    I like this version of Christianity. I can reinterpret any of the words of Paul or any NT letters to my own understanding. Time to eat some roasted lamb and join in the orgy at the Satanic temple!

  60. Lost Patrol says:

    Speaking of the bended knee…

    Mom says son must be careful because you can’t believe all women. Son says he believes all women.

    “I’m a proud Navy vet, Cat Dad and Ally.”

    https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2018/10/09/a-sailors-mom-chimed-in-about-himtoo-and-the-internet-had-a-field-day/

  61. Oscar says:

    @ Lost Patrol

    You know what they say. It ain’t gay if you’re underway.

  62. Dalrock says:

    Oscar are you suggesting there may be a different reason he never goes on dates with (only) women?

  63. MKT says:

    @Hmm
    “We can sin against other people, at least if we believe Jesus’ words in Matthew 18.”

    I agree, but this “confession” is completely wrong. It reminds me of the multiple “racism” confessions done by SBC, PCA and other allegedly denominations. They apologize for slavery, segregation and other things no current church member has ever been involved in. It wouldn’t surprise me if we see more of this. In fact, I’ve already seen a PCA church bulletin with a corporate confession of sins against women. Before long, heteros will be on their knees sobbing for forgiveness from the LGBTQ crowd…though again, practically no one from the church has committed any “hate crimes.”

  64. Lost Patrol says:

    @ Oscar

    I’m prepared to leave Mom with her happy memories of a little boy. So you’ll have to explain it to her.

  65. Oscar says:

    @ Dalrock & Lost Patrol

    I was making a well-worn Navy joke, but if the Crackerjacks fit…

  66. feministhater says:

    That’s one sailor I will have no sympathy for if he gets accused of any crime. Please make accusations against him ladies. He will believe you of course.

  67. Mac says:

    However, we are attracted to another understanding of Paul’s argument…

    I have tried to read John Piper’s writings after hearing about him from an Associate Pastor of the church Bible Study I was attending. I could not get past more than two essays before I wanted to puke. Lots of weasel words. He came across as a smug little wimp (I am being charitable here) and wanting to turn every other man into a wimp. I had to exit that church after reading up on Piper and when the Assc. Pastor tried to get us to read Tim Keller’s “A Reason For God”. Been reading up on all these people, Beth Moore included, very dangerous thoughts swirling around in their heads.

  68. earl says:

    I’ve never apologized to any woman for being or acting like a man, especially my wife.

    Heck he wasn’t even apologizing for anything he did…it was for what men do to hurt women. Now that could be a ‘signal’ he’s got some skeletons in his closet…but it could also be for the attention and how ‘woke’ he is as a white knight.

  69. earl says:

    And he did not apologize for me either. I take my sins to the confessional to get true contrition.

  70. Darwinian Arminian says:

    @Roger
    “…She had a man literally get on his knees before a crowd of women and apologize for the male gender.” I don’t what disgusts me more: her triumphalism or his pathetic spinelessness.

    Compare Beth Moore’s glee at getting a man to bow before her and ask for forgiveness to what you see from the original disciples in the book of Acts:

    Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests. The next day Peter started out with them, and some of the believers from Joppa went along. The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.”

    Acts 10:23 – 26

    That’s coming from the top man amongst the apostles, who’d heard Christ tell him in person that he would be the foundation for His entire church. Factor in that Cornelius had been a Roman centurion and that’s when you also realize that Peter was saying those words to a functionary who worked for the same team that had knocked both him and his brothers around more than a few times, not to mention the role they played in killing his Lord. And yet it never even occurs to him to stop for a moment and enjoy the groveling he receives.

    Then again, maybe the reason Peter could do this was because Cornelius was also “only a man” himself. Future prediction: Sometime in a few years we’ll see Beth Moore give a Bible teaching in which she shares a new revelation she received which involved God telling her that if it had been a woman coming to Peter in this situation then he would have responded by dropping to his knees and saying, “No! No, it is I who am not worthy!”

  71. Paul says:

    @SirHamster

    “Of course, there is nothing in Scripture that suggests any individual can apologize for the sins of someone else, least alone an entire gender.

    That is exactly the function of a priest. Jesus is our high priest. ”

    Sorry, you’re mistaken. A priest has a function to offer a sacrifice *for* someone, but not *in the place* of someone. The sinner brings the sacrifice him/herself. The sacrifice is taken the sin of the sinner and dies in his/her place. Jesus is both our high priest as well as our sacrifice. He died once as a spotless sacrifice for our sins.

    The RCC notion of priest is of course very different from the OT meaning of priest.
    As for the NT meaning of priests, the only relevant texts are in Romans (talking about Paul’s priestly duty to spread the gospel to the gentiles), 1 Peter (all believers are a holy and royal priesthood), and Rev (believers made into a kingdom and priests, and those in the first resurrection will be priests with Christ), but never mentioning bringing sacrifices or apologizing for the sins of someone else.

  72. Oscar says:

    @ earl

    Now that could be a ‘signal’ he’s got some skeletons in his closet…

    That’s a good point, given male feminists’ track record. And Mr. Jones is definitely a male feminist, if a more churchian-approved version.

    Make a mental note, and file it away for the future, gents.

  73. Oscar says:

    @ Darwinian Arminian

    Compare Beth Moore’s glee at getting a man to bow before her and ask for forgiveness to what you see from the original disciples in the book of Acts

    Or the Apostle John and the angel in Revelation 22.

    8 Now I, John, [c]saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.

    9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. [d]For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”

  74. Lost Patrol says:

    @ Darwinian Arminian & Oscar

    Those are excellent ripostes to have handy if or when this latest Beth Moore disrespect of God and man comes up in person somewhere. Thanks.

  75. I’ve heard her teaching in the past and thought I would check in again.

    What is the goal? Social Justice?

  76. Sorry, the refferenced quote starts at 20:00.

  77. ChristianCool says:

    @earl

    Or a female schoolteacher can molest and take it up the a$$ by a 10 year old kid and get probation for messing with a young boy’s life. And then a 21 year old male teacher can have a consensual relationship with a 17-year old female student and spend 15 years in prison and “enjoy” a lifetime registered as a “sex offender” afterwards. 🙄
    Americans do not even protect its young boys in anymore. They allow cucked teachers to medicate them into depression and suicide, provide them with the worst education available, discriminate against them throughout their lives, and then call them rapists with no evidence.

    The lives of American men have zero value and all you hear all day from the Left on TV is about “the Patriarchy” or “white male privilege”.
    It is as if we are living in “1984”, but (for now), less violent.

    Just saw that Dalrock posted a “re-humanize men” video today. About time some women notice.

    @constrainedlocus

    The core problem with your argument that “Christian men lack the balls to change any of this, it will ultimately be the Muslims who will take all of their rights away once and for all” is that America, unlike Europe, has been invaded by 3rd world peasants, mainly from the Americas, not from Middle East or Africa. Western Europe, in our lifetimes, WILL BE ruled by a Muslim theocracy and I will be laughing wildly as Feminists in Sweden and Germany wear burkas and get gangraped on the streets. They EARNED this by demanding more Muslims be brought into their countries and voted Socialist every single time, so no pity from me to Germans and Swedes. France is already 15% Muslim, Sweden is probably not far behind. Belgium is so overwhelmingly Muslim now, famous and notorious terrorist can spend their lives hanging out at cafes and local stores without any fear.

    But most importantly, ConstrainedLocus… WHAT exactly do you suggest Christian men DO to “change any of this”? Armed revolt? Burn down Feminist churches? Storm Violence?

    I doubt something like that would happen, because even mild, nonviolent suggestions to reform this Feminist hellhole are met with mockery and resistance. One example: how about we completely deny “reformed sluts” their marriage goal later in life?

    I believe that as Red-Pilled Christian men, it is our SACRED DUTY to alert young men NOT to marry some post-Wall “reformed slut” later in life and not to do that ourselves. I have suggested that it is our job to make sure the next generation of Fem-sluts hit the wall hard, crashes, and burns. Why should our young men reward women for such deplorable behavior??? It makes no sense to perpetuate this horrible situation and allow young men to suffer needlessly.

    As Dalrock said in one of his columns that “…if women fail to marry and have children… their wacky adventure decade plus of extended courtship, looks like a path of sad, slutty failure.” I advocate that men make sure the FemiNazis wacky “extended courtship” adventures DOES indeed end up being a massive failure for these women!!! That is the only way we can give a chance for the generation after that to learn some lessons and will hopefully get their act together and make better choices in life and restore a more sane relationship system.

    My suggestion to completely avoid marriage, thus combating women’s “2-phase mating strategy” of riding the Carrousel and then looking for a guy to marry them near/past-wall. I also stated that men should summarily refuse to give in to post-Wall “reformed sluts” is met here with condemnation that I am some sort of “pagan fraud” having non-marital sex. 😮

    Given how even nonviolent solutions are met with ridicule and condemnation, what do you propose Christian men do to “take the situation” back under control?

    This lack of clear, actionable solutions is why I have been wondering myself IF there is even a point in have a kid(s) anymore. This country is so messed up right now (would be infinitely worst under Hillary, but culturally, it is a hellish nightmare as is) and if we legalize the 20-30 million illegals in the USA and they vote, the Left will have control of the country for the next 100 years, if not forever. If we have 20 million new voters, Feminism will be “mild” compared to the Venezuela-style country we will have.

    If you do not believe me, consider HOW these 3rd world peasants vote: Brazil…. 8 years of Socialist control (Lula). Brazil declines in every way and the culture is openly being transformed into radical feminism. How did Brazilians vote after 8 years of legislated Feminism and economic decline? They voted for the Communist female President 4 more years (she was the VP for the Socialist govt). After Presidenta Dilma literally brings the country’s economy to ruins, rampant poverty, out of control unemployment and instability, and causes crime rates to skyrocket…. how did Brazilians vote? They re-elect her (Dilma) for another 4 years, cause the first 4 were not “horrific enough”, clearly! 🙄 She was impeached before a military coup took place, that is how bad it is. The mentality of the people is bad.

    Venezuela…. how do you think Chavez took power initially? He was voted in and the country elected super-majorities for his Communist party. He was re-elected so many times, he was able to re-appoint entire Supreme Court there, all military leaders, and become a dictator. The people there voted him in. Same in Honduras, El Salvador, Bolivia…. These countries are fuc#ed up because they PEOPLE there are fu#ked up.

    Polling of immigrants ask “should government do more or less”. Over 80% say “do more”. Banning guns… 70%+ of immigrants here say “ban all guns”. These people are peasants and they vote their own countries into ruins and then come HERE and bring their shitty mentality with them. Almost all immigrants in USA, especially the illegals ones get welfare, they defraud IRS each year and get tens of thousands in EIC (Earned Income Credit – they get a check for paying no tax for claiming kids that do not exist). They all get “free stuff”. How do you think they will VOTE, if legalized?? 🙄

    So I am asking myself these days…. “what is the point of having a kid”? A kid(s) will give me big losses of personal freedom, massive costs, and many other headaches. Why not just enjoy my life, travel, have fun, save for retirement in the woods, and die in my own quiet life while the West comes to its self-destructive end? I am one man, middle class… I can run game on Brazilian immigrants, I can get some women for LTRs…. why bother?

    I agree the West is almost certainly entering its final stages, with America a few steps behind… but Muslims will not “fix” anything. They will end Feminism in Western Europe and that will be delightful to watch as they deserve it completely…. BVut is that a “fix”? I say NO….. And here in USA, our destruction will come from The Left and/or from amnesty for illegal aliens. It will be destruction from our own stupidity…. the “good nature of the white Christian middle class” as Saul Alisky says, is the greatest weapon to their own demise. Mention “deport illegals” and Christian softies immediately melt looking at some sad kid and his mom on TV…. So is there hope?

    So I ask again: WHAT do you propose we Christian men DO to “take back” things, ConstrainedLocus?

  78. ChristianCool says:

    @God Is Laughing

    I need to patent a cure for constipation: watch Beth Moore videos. Or eat at Chipotle! LOL 😆

    Seriously… her videos are crap, I could not even stomach the whole thing, checked another one… more drivel. Sweet Jesus… what an imbecile (and that is saying a lot, I attend law school with a lot of dimwitted students – you know, mainly daughters and some sons of “legacy donors” to the university)! 😮

    @BillyS says: “I have had many male pastors (including associate pastors and such) tell me that men cannot teach women, or basically hold them accountable, that such must be left to women.”

    Simply put: follow the Left’s playbook and segregate everyone into small groups: by races, by genders, by national origin, etc. 🙄

    My late wife and I used to “keep each other accountable” in our Faith. Helped us a lot.

    To be in a church where men (even if a male Deacon) cannot hold a woman accountable is asinine.

    It reminds me how FemiNazis are always saying women are “strong, independent, and powerful” and the instant someone tells them “grow up”, they all melt down like weeping lilies! 🙄

    Example:

    Hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness are rampant in churchian females today, even worse, in the church leadership!

  79. SirHamster says:

    Sorry, you’re mistaken. A priest has a function to offer a sacrifice *for* someone, but not *in the place* of someone. The sinner brings the sacrifice him/herself. The sacrifice is taken the sin of the sinner and dies in his/her place. Jesus is both our high priest as well as our sacrifice. He died once as a spotless sacrifice for our sins.

    Sinner, you think you brought your sacrifice yourself? How did you bring Jesus yourself?

    The problem isn’t the means, where one representative acts on behalf of a group. That is the function of priests. As well as diplomats, kings, and Congress critters.

    The problem is the values, where a heretical woman preacher appoints a man to stand for mankind, to debase himself and appease the goddess of feminism.

  80. Oscar says:

    @ sirHamster

    … a heretical woman preacher…

    You repeat yourself, sir.

  81. Paul says:

    @SirHamster : “Sinner, you think you brought your sacrifice yourself? How did you bring Jesus yourself?”

    Good questions, the answers are already in my original answer : Jesus is our Highpriest and already brought and made the sacrifice once, and for all. Read Hebrews to better understand the relationship between OT and NT.

  82. ChristianCool says:

    Here is what a true Alpha does: he does NOT kneel to even ask a woman for her “hand” in marriage:

    We should watch this guy and learn. This is a True Alpha in action here. He fights, he brawls, he says what is on his mind, and he wins.

    To kneel and prostrate yourself before a woman for marriage is Beta, maybe even Gamma-male attitude.

  83. Pingback: The golden calf monologues. | Dalrock

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