A shortage doesn’t indicate a buyer’s market.

One comment I see from fathers with surprising regularity is that their unmarried daughter is in a great position to find a husband because she’s not remotely interested in the kind of men who express interest in her.  Even worse, the longer this pattern persists the more pleased with their daughter’s marriage prospects the fathers become!  I wrote a year and a half ago about the same basic topic in An attitude of abundance.

I still think my previous analysis applies, but something else struck me today.  I also think this is tied into the erroneous idea that the Bible teaches that men should pursue and women should judge the performance.  But it isn’t the Bible that teaches this ethic, it is the religion of Courtly Love that teaches this.  Think of the only two women to have books of the Bible named after them.  Both Ruth and Esther pursued their eventual husbands.  Ruth’s pursuit of Boaz resulted in her being the grandmother of King David, which meant that Christ would come from her line.  Esther’s pursuit of Ahasuerus allowed her to save the Jews.

But since very few Christians can separate Christianity from Courtly Love/Chivalry, there is a widespread belief that Courtly Love is God’s model.  In the Courtly Love model a man selects a woman and sets out to prove his worth to her in the hope of winning her heart.  The woman’s only job is to keep being awesome while deciding if the man’s performance is worth rewarding with a token of her favor.  This is what so many unmarried women and their fathers are so loudly complaining is lacking today.  It isn’t Christian, but it is a religious expectation.

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This entry was posted in Chivalry, Courtly Love, Death of courtship, Esther, Finding a Spouse, Judging the performance, Traditional Conservatives, Weak men screwing feminism up. Bookmark the permalink.

303 Responses to A shortage doesn’t indicate a buyer’s market.

  1. earl says:

    The woman’s only job is to keep being awesome while deciding if the man’s performance is worth rewarding with a token of her favor. This is what so many unmarried women and their fathers are so loudly complaining is lacking today.

    Exactly.

    Then you get people like Shelia and her daughter wailing and gnashing teeth that some people point out men expect some things from women too when it comes to choosing a marital partner. Certainly being a good helpmate, showing wife/mother material, and not allowing any passing Chad in her. It’s not just some self-declaration they are awesome that proves they should be bride material.

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  3. thedeti says:

    Good points.

    I seem to remember Cane Caldo saying something like this. A man setting his sights on one or two or three women and then pursuing them really hard trying to get on their radar isn’t the best way to find a woman who’s interested in him and who is the best match.

    Instead, he should be his best version of himself, and then see which women are tossing subtle signs of interest at him. Which women just kind of show up where he is, which ones make a point to say hi to him, which ones reach out to him, which ones contact him, which ones strike up conversations with him. And then from THOSE women he should select a few he is interested in and then pursue them.

    That certainly isn’t what most Christians are teaching their children. I certainly wasn’t taught this.

  4. thedeti says:

    In the Courtly Love model a man selects a woman and sets out to prove his worth to her in the hope of winning her heart. The woman’s only job is to keep being awesome while deciding if the man’s performance is worth rewarding with a token of her favor. This is what so many unmarried women and their fathers are so loudly complaining is lacking today.

    In the current #MeToo climate, false rape allegations, and sexual harassment’s current definition as “any conduct or words uttered by any man anywhere that any woman within sight or earshot didn’t like”, this model can be downright dangerous for men.

    A man can no longer just pick a few girls he’s interested in and pursue them. If he selects some girls who dont’ like him, he’s in for a world of hurt by trying to “perform” for them. If he selects one who kind of likes him, but he makes even one wrong move or says one remotely mildly offensive thing, he’s done. Not only will she know about it, all her friends will know too.

    When a woman is very interested and shows it, she’ll be much more forgiving of his expected missteps. That gives him room to run, and gives a budding relationship the space it needs to germinate and grow.

  5. The Question says:

    “I also think this is tied into the erroneous idea that the Bible teaches that men should pursue and women should judge the performance.”

    This also explains the attitude that men should pursue women no matter how unsuitable they are for marriage and motherhood, and if a man’s standards make it impossible to find a suitable wife, his standards need to be lowered no matter how biblically they may be.

    That’s because the Bible doesn’t set the standard for what constitutes “realistic” expectations, according to this line of thinking. The women as a collective get to do so, and if enough of them do something, that is made the norm. Whether it’s pursuing a career until their early 30s or taking out enormous debt, the men have three options. A) Compete for the tiny minority of exceptions to the rule, B) Settle and marry the standard despite all the risks, or C) Not marry at all.

    The “men prefer debt-free virgins without tattoos” struck serve a nerve because it implicitly attacks the idea that men should pursue women in the abstract. It legitimizes men judging the performance of the women.

  6. Jamie says:

    This is dinner table conversation fodder for families with daughters of appropriate age. The Ruth/Esther examples are rarely discussed. Well done Dalrock, but caution is in order.

    In this culture, 8 out of 10 women who forge out there and get their man spend the next 30 years running him into the ground (less than that when she inevitably gets tired of leading). You’re right about pursuit, but times change. Not only are women different, but men too.

    A woman who NEEDS a husband (Ruth/Esther) behaves much differently from a woman who deigns to marry a man for her own benefit (Jezebel).

  7. Jonathan Castle says:

    Men still pursue for sex.

    But today, it is women who have to pursue for marriage (since women want it more.)

    Our daughters can misinterpret sexual interest for marriage interest. This is defintely a trap a lot of pre-wall women have fallen for.

  8. Christopher Nystrom says:

    A man’s job is to be ready, willing, and able for marriage for the woman that needs him.

  9. Deti says:

    “If he selects one who kind of likes him, but he makes even one wrong move or says one remotely mildly offensive thing, he’s done. Not only will she know about it, all her friends will know too”

    Exactly. This happens a lot in modern American church culture. Seen plenty of men deemed “losers” or “not a real man” because he made a mistake according to the ‘christian romance novel’ narrative that he did not follow or project to her liking….and ALL her friends will know about it making him a pariah in the church…
    He then he has to endure sermons in the vein of Chandler / Driscoll / Piper / Platt that “real men pursue” and “women don’t bite” and “how dare you” and “put down the video games / stop using porn and man up”

    This has not happened exactly to myself this way….but after I did ask one woman out, and she said no….I was suddenly deemed “creepy”

    It’s a hard stain to wash off in a church community, younger guys can bounce back by NOT asking any women out who go to their church…..older guys (over 35) are pretty much done for.

    Some finally learn the truth……..”girl ain’t worth it” (a song from 1990 I think) and get along.

  10. earl says:

    But today, it is women who have to pursue for marriage (since women want it more.)

    I wouldn’t be so sure of that.

    One thing I did learn is even if you are a marriage minded man…that doesn’t mean women want to get married to you. One reason the marriage rate has gone down is because a lot of women don’t pursue marriage…they got to get that degree/career/tingles/trips/Chad experiences out of the way before they can possibly think about their future husband.

  11. Anon says:

    Christopher Nystrom,

    A man’s job is to be ready, willing, and able for marriage for the woman that needs him.

    Yes, you do that. You play an important role in keeping the modern status quo going.

    Pickup artists want to have sex with women.
    Women want to have sex with pickup artists.
    Christopher Nystrom gets to pay the bills.

    Everybody wins! Everybody wins because everybody meets their full potential, especially Christopher Nystrom who gets to man up, step up, and remain on standby for when a woman needs Beta Bux from a needy man.

  12. Anon says:

    jason,

    This happens a lot in modern American church culture.

    But you have failed to notice which men are getting laid at Sunday Morning Nightclub. The PUA-types certainly don’t sit through the ‘sermon’. They are there swiftly for the social hour, slay a few women at that church, and then move on to another one. The church sluts love it. The beta male cuckservatives in church who are being ‘courtly’ are just there to pay the bills.

    Sunday Morning Nightclub has a very specific purpose (particularly since some of the women there were partying merely four hours before, so this is just a continuation of the same party).

  13. the PUA types don’t come to the sermon. I understand ‘sunday morning nightclub’ very, very well. I don’t care to notice which ones are getting action…..I wanted a date, girlfriend and wife….every protestant pretty much knows in his church that the praise leader, the hunky youth pastor, and “virginal” pastors daughter are the ringleaders in all of this.

    Would not waste my time trying to “slay” the “churchsluts’ because that is not what I want

  14. Badman says:

    Sound advice. Over on /r/RPChristians, Red-Curious made similar posts about how a single man should focus on himself/his mission instead of pursuing women.

    And for those of us men who aren’t getting signs of interest from women we would like? Let this be motivation to continue improving.

  15. Relevant but not to be trusted uncritically:

    https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2018/08/16/a_huge_misperception_about_sex.html

    I think “Real Clear Science” draws erroneous conclusions from the facts, but their survey does appear to be in line with reality, so far as I can tell.

  16. Anon says:

    Would not waste my time trying to “slay” the “churchsluts’ because that is not what I want

    Well, you need to lose your virginity before you can get to the right frame of mind to pursue any other goal.

  17. Jonathan Castle says:

    “One thing I did learn is even if you are a marriage minded man…that doesn’t mean women want to get married to you.”

    For sure, the 80% – now more than ever – will have to doggedly pursue women for sex and anything else. (The 80% is fatigued … thus MGTOW.)

    But from a woman’s perspective (the subject of Dalrock’s post), they don’t want to marry the 80% anyway. That’s the thirsty, unwashed hordes the father and daughter think guarantee them success in the marriage market. Haha.

    The 20% they do want to _marry_ are in high demand, so women will have to do some pursuing! This is hard for them because they are used to being pursued _for sex_ by the 100% …but the marriage market dynamics are flipped.

    They will defintely have to both pursue and be open to the 40%, which they hate, hate, hate (“I won’t settle, damn it!”) after being boned by the 20% in their rock-star years.

    And honestly if you are the Mr. 35% that she marries, you should that she’s going to resent the hell out of you, alpha-widow style.

    That’s why men prefer virgins.

  18. Wrong Anon. Totally wrong on that. I’ve beaten the odds many times and have recently landed myself a decent job, got and stayed clean, hiked a 133 mile backpacking trek last summer, going to the UK. I speak a foreign language fluently. No…one does not have to “lose” their virginity to accomplish a goal or any of them.

  19. earl says:

    Just food for thought…men should focus on mission and improvement…

    But if Ms. Entitled Princess thinks she’s awesome for her mere existence…what’s going to make her change her mind to start pursuing guys?

    I think realistically…men should be prepared for not many signals of interest from women or at least not let that get them down on what their focus should be. In case women haven’t figured it out yet…what they have been told is a big ole lie.

  20. Earl……they believe the lie, and have accepted it as truth. Changing? Yes, I will grant that some former carousel riders will *learn* and find true, heartfelt repentance and change. I believe that people can change.

    Most just won’t. Here in my area of California you have the old, ragged frizzed hair old hippie ladies who are some of the most bitter shrews you will ever meet. They KNOW they were wrong about dating / sex / love and now…….admitting such a failure would have made their lives pointless. It’s also California liberalism….it’s always “someone elses fault”

  21. Jonathan Castle says:

    SeventiesJason, perhaps you need to separate your would-be dating life from your church life?

    It’s a big world out there and you’re fishing in a very small pond. Plus, dating outside your church will insulate your current church relationships from inevitable dating fallout.

    Just a thought.

  22. My v-card was a failure for me most of my life….and now…pushing fifty? I see it not as a “strength” but something that cannot have price ever put upon it.

  23. Darwinian Arminian says:

    “. . . This is tied into the erroneous idea that the Bible teaches that men should pursue and women should judge the performance. But it isn’t the Bible that teaches this ethic, it is the religion of Courtly Love that teaches this. Think of the only two women to have books of the Bible named after them. Both Ruth and Esther pursued their eventual husbands. Ruth’s pursuit of Boaz resulted in her being the grandmother of King David, which meant that Christ would come from her line. Esther’s pursuit of Ahasuerus allowed her to save the Jews.”

    There’s another aspect to this that modern evangelicalism would probably also find deeply offensive: The idea that a woman should pursue a man because it would give her access to a few things in life that she wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) be able to attain on her own as a woman. Today’s society is deeply invested in the idea that social equality of men and women is one of the highest goods, and the church is no exception to that. If the story of Ruth and Boaz happened today, pastors wouldn’t be celebrating it as an example of marital love or as a model for how God takes care of His church. It would be an example social injustice that prompted calls from many a pulpit about the need to build a better society in which no woman should ever have to be reduced to turning to a man in order to get her physical needs met.

    The same is true in matters of wisdom and insight. Can anyone imagine a pastor giving a message on marriage in which he encouraged women to find a good husband because a believing man would be able to teach her on matters in the faith and in the Bible that she was missing because she didn’t have a man’s experience? I’ve never heard one like it, in spite of the fact that the Apostle Paul gives similar advice to wives in his letter to the Corinthians. I doubt I ever will. It’s just too offensive to suggest to women in the church that there is no section of God’s knowledge that they don’t already grasp naturally, even though the same churches will be happy to remind the men that they can never truly understand the levels of oppression that modern women navigate on a daily basis. So sit down and offer her nothing but support when she #MeToos and #ChurchToos!

    The church doesn’t want to acknowledge that on both a material and spiritual level women need men and will be worse off without one in their lives — not so much because it’s an idea that’s offensive to the faith, but because it is an idea that’s offensive to modern feminism. So instead they’ll settle for a workaround solution in which they praise the idea of equality between the sexes, and shoehorn in the idea that marriage is still necessary by telling the crowds that without women to civilize them, men are incapable of escaping a life spent as a lazy and clueless fool. And then they’ll act surprised when for some inexplicable reason, the women now see upwards of 80% of all the available men in their lives as the type that they’d never consider marrying.

  24. JC……no takers….anywhere…..other things to do now. I check that dating profile every month or so….still no hits…..and I should let my membership lapse….better thing to do with that 22.50 a month

  25. stickdude90 says:

    But if Ms. Entitled Princess thinks she’s awesome for her mere existence…what’s going to make her change her mind to start pursuing guys?

    Nothing. She’ll just keep cranking out “where have all the good men gone?” blog posts until she’s well past The Wall.

  26. earl says:

    It’s also California liberalism….it’s always “someone elses fault”

    I wouldn’t last 5 minutes in California.

    Heck when I lived in rainbow flag-blue pill-socialist-BLM utopia city for 6 years it was amazing I didn’t lose my mind.

  27. earl says:

    That’s my point. Men should focus on their mission for the glory of God and for their improvement. Don’t do it going in with the goal that this will suddenly increase the interest of women in you. It certainly could…but there’s a lot of Entitled Princesses out there.

  28. feministhater says:

    I remember a comment in a recent Dalrock thread exactly like this. Wish I could find it now but it was a father who was basking in his daughter’s magnificence, by telling us all what a great catch she is with her STEM degree and how the men she knows are all intimidated by her brilliance and her smarts and blah, blah, blah, blah, same old story.

  29. Sharkly says:

    Thank God I only have sons! It seems like daughters cause dads to be extra Blue Pill. I’m not sure why, but those dads try to raise their daughters to be fishes that don’t actually need bicycles. As though protecting their daughter from being dumped onto hard times by some future man is their top priority. Yet all they end up accomplishing is making their daughters independent enough to dump her future boyfriend, or husband frivolously. In this culture they should be teaching girls what they’re missing, selflessness, humility, loyalty, fidelity, devotion, and respect and admiration for men. They don’t need more lessons on being a spoiled princess who can upstage their husband in the court of public opinion.

  30. feministhater says:

    My girl is a “catch” as well. NOT spoiled and entitled and very beautiful. But she can read the landscape too. She flat out told us “I’m good. I just don’t need that”. She knows that too many guys are weak beta soyboys with 50-100K in college debt. She doesn’t want that. My girl is debt free. Why marry into such debt?
    She is moving to another house soon. NOT ONE guy in her church group offered to help. In my day in the 80’s I helped plenty of women move. No, I didn’t do it for free. My goal was to scope out the hard working and pretty chicks during the move, then ask them out. I guess now guys are too busy drinking lattes or playing video games to “help” (scope them out and seek a relationship).
    Honestly, I blame the Church for a lot of this. It seems like they are a part of creating bets males.

    Ok, found one of them but there is another. I think from the same gent. Hilarious stuff!

  31. LMAO, I wonder if those “alpha girl dads” will still be so proud when their daughters are 35-40 and only have friends with benefits, because they aren’t attracted to any of the men who would actually go on a date with them?

  32. earl says:

    Well I can tell alpha girl dad what type of guy she may eventually marry and you will certainly have doubts about his sexual orientation.

  33. JRob says:

    Thank God I only have sons! It seems like daughters cause dads to be extra Blue Pill.

    Guy I used to work with got frivorced by a SAHM two years before his planned retirement. Wife of 26 years; DODO with three of them. In the words of Jerry Reed, “While she’s livin’ like a queen on alimony, I’m workin’ two shifts eatin’ baloney” is this guy’s life. He’ll work until he’s in the ground to pay this bitch and his bills. And her bills (credit cards, hidden payday loans, etc) which he was graciously awarded. She filed motions over BBQ grills and loveseats to run the lawyer bills up which he also is paying.

    Through all of this, he still sticks to, “I’m teaching my daughters not to rely on any man.” No doubt the same thing his father-in-law taught his ex-wife.

  34. Badman says:

    There’s a lot of piling on Joe here and in the other thread, which I generally agree with. However, Joe’s story does raise a point worth considering:

    Daughter of Joe very likely has tingles for men that won’t commit to marrying her. And the men who would commit to marriage don’t give her tingles. So what is she to do?

    Many of us would be tempted to say that she should reassess her standards and consider one of these commitment-minded men. But wouldn’t that set up that poor man for a life of resentment, nagging, and likely frivorce? If Daughter of Joe can’t receive both tingles and commitment from the same man, isn’t the correct decision for her not to marry?

    This ties back into how different, and difficult, the current dating environment is. Based on a lifetime of “you go grrrl”, endless validation from social media/dating apps, and yes, parenting encouraging her to be “strong and independent”, a woman’s threshold for tingles and what she considers acceptable in a partner has been grossly inflated. Only the highest “alpha” will do.

    Of course, this is very different than the last few centuries of Western society, where a reasonably fit man with a decent career and social circle could attract a wife. (Question: did those characteristics actually induce tingles back then? Or did women simply prioritize providership more? I’d wager it could be both, since I’d expect arousal for an otherwise attractive man could be de-sensitized upon receiving validation or sexual interest from thousands of other men, some of whom are high “alphas”. This would be similar to the “alpha widow” effect, and probably analogous to how porn often de-sensitizes men to arousal from real women.)

    In any case, technology and inter-connectedness have given us a society where women can see and often times touch the very best of the opposite sex, without receiving the commitment they desire. Since technology is non-reversible, I don’t know how we can effectively correct this – perhaps a first step would be for fathers to raise the next generation of daughters to be feminine, humble, and open to marrying young. Which, as we know, is the exact opposite of how most parents (especially those in the church, like Joe) seem to be raising their daughters.

  35. earl says:

    OT…but something of interest…more empathy and understanding in women doesn’t actually happen until they have children. The brain actually transforms. Yet more proof that women aren’t just ‘men with breasts’. Almost like that’s what God made them for.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/34662/study-having-children-transforms-womans-brain-paul-bois

    ‘Women experience a flood of hormones during pregnancy, childbirth, and breast-feeding that primes the brain for dramatic change in regions thought to make up the maternal circuit. Affected brain regions include those that enable a mother to multitask to meet baby’s needs, help her to empathize with her infant’s pain and emotions, and regulate how she responds to positive stimuli (such as baby’s coo) or to perceived threats. In the newborn months, a mother’s interaction with her infant serves as further stimulus to link her brain quite tangibly to her baby’s.

    Some effects of those brain changes may moderate over time. Researchers have found that the anxiety or hypervigilance that many new mothers feel, for example, peaks in the first month postpartum and then diminishes. But they suspect that other effects linger, shaping mothers even well past their child-rearing years and even influencing their relationships with future grandchildren.’

    ‘Researchers found no change in gray matter makeup for fathers, indicating that women experience an entirely unique biological change when they become mothers.’

  36. earl says:

    Through all of this, he still sticks to, “I’m teaching my daughters not to rely on any man.” No doubt the same thing his father-in-law taught his ex-wife.

    While the karma is certainly entertaining…he’s certainly teaching the next generation of frivorcers.

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  38. Wraithburn says:

    @feministhater

    Does he not realize how creepy it sounds to “help” looking to get near a chick and obligate her into a relationship? That’s leaving entirely aside the fact that any man alone with his daughter helping her move is ripe to get a rape accusation thrown at him, and if she is free from college debt and able to afford a house then she can darn well pay for movers.

  39. feeriker says:

    a father who was basking in his daughter’s magnificence, by telling us all what a great catch she is with her STEM degree and how the men she knows are all intimidated by her brilliance and her smarts and blah, blah, blah, blah, same old story.

    I never tire of telling women that not only do men not give a shit about their academic achievements, goals, and careers, but that if their goal is landing a husband, those things are arsenic, plutonium, and kryptonite all rolled into one.

    Needless to say, it goes over like a sewage backup in a restaurant during peak feeding hours. Which is why I go out of my way to say it.

  40. rdchemist says:

    @earl

    There are a few studies I’ve read that have concluded the same thing. It’s as if pregnancy and giving birth gives women the reality check that they aren’t the center of the universe.

    But it’s a double edge sword. Because of those floods of hormones, she will never regret her poor selection of chads. Because if it wasn’t for them, then she wouldn’t have little Jimmy in her life. Isn’t he the most adorable thing ever? She may even credit such a blessing to God!

    So how can we expect any single mother to warn the younger sisterhood of the dangers of falling for Chad if she never regrets the decision?

  41. Jonathan Castle says:

    “If Daughter of Joe can’t receive both tingles and commitment from the same man, isn’t the correct decision for her not to marry?”

    “a woman’s threshold for tingles and what she considers acceptable in a partner has been grossly inflated.”

    Great points. Hypergamy is unleashed but increasingly unsatisfied.

    And for millennial women, because they earn more $$s than millennial men, hypergamy denied is a mathematical certainty.

  42. Jonathan Castle says:

    Of course, this is very different than the last few centuries of Western society, where a reasonably fit man with a decent career and social circle could attract a wife. (Question: did those characteristics actually induce tingles back then?)

    My theory is yes. *Every woman married up* because she had no economic freedom of her own. Hypergamy was maximized => women were happy.

    Feminism ultimately minimizes hypergamous success => women sad, confused.

    No doubt women in the Old Order still compared their husband’s rank to others in the society (it’s tough being a man at anytime…) but I’d argue the general level hypergamous satisfaction was higher then than now.

  43. feeriker says:

    (Question: did those characteristics actually induce tingles back then? Or did women simply prioritize providership more? I’d wager it could be both, since I’d expect arousal for an otherwise attractive man could be de-sensitized upon receiving validation or sexual interest from thousands of other men, some of whom are high “alphas”. This would be similar to the “alpha widow” effect, and probably analogous to how porn often de-sensitizes men to arousal from real women.)

    Or maybe, just maybe, past generations of parents raised their daughters to have much more realistic expectations of what they could expect in a husband. Also, they probably weren’t raising their daughters to be spoiled twats who thought they were the center of the universe. Generations and civilizations past didn’t have the luxury of cultivating that nonsense. The next generation won’t either.

  44. earl says:

    “If Daughter of Joe can’t receive both tingles and commitment from the same man, isn’t the correct decision for her not to marry?”

    She’s not looking to get married so it doesn’t matter.

    Even if she marries a tingle producer that doesn’t guarentee she’ll stick around.

  45. Robin Munn says:

    I have to disagree with the Esther example, at least as an example of a woman pursuing a man for marriage. She didn’t pursue Ahasuerus for marriage; his “talent scouts” picked her out for his harem and she had no choice in the matter. She later pursued him to solicit his favor for her people, but that illustrates a different point than the one you’re going for here.

    Ruth, OTOH, is a perfect example to illustrate your point.

  46. Sharkly says:

    Badman says: If Daughter of Joe can’t receive both tingles and commitment from the same man, isn’t the correct decision for her not to marry? … a woman’s threshold for tingles and what she considers acceptable in a partner has been grossly inflated.

    I think I got this figured out.
    1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. 5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man. 9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

    A man does not cover his head during prayer or prophetic speech because it would dishonor the image and glory of God, which the man was created in. But, the woman must cover her head, because she is not, but she is instead the glory of man.
    Joe and Joe’s church have obviously taught this poor girl that she is equal or better than the men in her church. A lie from Satan! If Joe had taught his daughter that she needed to cover her head when seeking communion with God because she was not as Godlike as all men are, She would have the requisite respect to tingle for all but the most hideously deformed and disfigured representations of her God. If she had been taught that every man deserved respect, and that her place always was and always would be below them, she would “know her place”, and knowing that she would respect men as God wants her to. She should have been taught that she was, as the passage above makes clear, not created in God’s image and glory like a man. But that her highest possible elevation on this earth would be to become One Flesh with the image and glory of God by uniting herself with a man by consummating herself into Holy marital unity with his Godlikeness and gloriousness.
    LOL, About gives me the tingles, just writing that!
    Anyhow, If we as men taught women what God’s word says about why they should fear and reverence us, and women saw men respecting each other, and we could get back to having the Godly patriarchal respect, that feminism and its chuchian “white knights” have fought so hard to smash, women would be back to being happy with, and tingly for, men in general. They’d still want a good one, but they’d see 80% of them as good and none as beneath them then, not just 20% as good, but mostly equal, and the rest as beneath them.

    It’s Feminist churchian heresy that turned Joe’s daughter into a snot.

  47. Minesweeper says:

    @JRob says:”Guy I used to work with got frivorced by a SAHM two years before his planned retirement. Wife of 26 years; ”

    Saw the same with a guy I worked with as well, its was absolutely brutal.

    He was about to retire and had lived a very modest life so he could retire early and spend time with his son – he made big $$ but put it all away for retirement, so she had an affair fucked everything up, I mean its one thing for her to grab half your assets+, have some other dude living in your home and using the vagina you’ve been paying for, reduce your access to your kid AND then deny your retirement and make you work another 15 years !!! She was young as well and could have worked another 30+ years easy.

    FFS – im surprised he didn’t go postal. I would have killed somebody in that scenario. I thought I was going to kill somebody in my scenario and it was nowhere near as bad as that.

    The guy went from being a big strapping in charge guy who dominated meetings to this tiny little man with grey hair in about 6 months who could barely look you in the eye, you couldn’t recognise him when you passed him in the street. The emotional destruction women wield is off the charts these days.

    “DODO with three of them.”
    what does DODO mean ?

  48. Sharkly says:

    what does DODO mean ?
    Dad Of Daughters Only

  49. Badman says:

    @earl: “She’s not looking to get married so it doesn’t matter.”

    Not sure if you’re being sarcastic, but it’s clear from Joe’s original post that the reason she’s not looking to get married is because she thinks she’s surrounded by debt-ridden soyboys. I bet she would sing a completely different tune about marriage if she was surrounded by Brad Pitts and Chris Hemsworths, or if Prince Harry wanted to marry her instead.

    This hypergamy in her (and most women of her generation) has been supercharged by society and parents like Joe raising her to be a “Strong Independent Woman”, and from the endless validation she receives on social media and dating apps, particularly attention from high-value men.

    I know Western churches are very good at emasculating men, but I find it hard to believe that all of the men in her church are truly soyboys deep in debt. Yes, an unfortunately large share of millennials fit that description, but there are also many, many men in their 20s/early 30s who are successful in their careers, motivated, and physically fit. These types of men are probably just invisible to Joe’s daughter (or lumped in with “soyboys”) because they still don’t meet her unrealistic hypergamic standards.

    And yes, I agree with you that even generating tingles is no insurance against frivorce. After all, just look to Hollywood, Brad Pitt, or the Royal Family. But a man who can generate tingles in his wife is at a lower risk than a man squarely viewed as a provider, all else being equal.

  50. pariah says:

    Hey Jason, you’ve shared before of your testimony of how God saved you. Have you committed your life into His hands? I’m sure you have. Have you pondered whether God wants you to remain single? Have you prayed about it? The Apostle Paul said: “To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am” (1 Cor 7:8). Those who remain single can spend more time devoted to God rather than trying to please their wife.

    Otherwise, if you still haven’t found a wife in America, then maybe you should try elsewhere. I’m sure there are plenty of nubile women in south east Asia.

  51. Pathfinderlight says:

    What is happening to young women in the current MMP is choice paralysis. Aaron Clarey explains it very well.

  52. Hank Flanders says:

    The notion of a shortage of men makes me think of a scene in The Americans in which KGB Agent Oleg Burov is living back in Russia with his parents and goes home one day to find three different women sitting at the dinner table with his parents that evening. Oleg’s parents had invited the women all there to compete for him simultaneously. Similarly, in the movie The Big Sick, the Pakistani main character’s family is frequently visited at dinner time by various young Desi women whom the mother had invited. If there were truly a shortage of men, real life would be like these stories with women competing for each other for available men. As Dalrock noted, the fathers of single women would also be helping their daughters successfully compete with other women instead of simply expecting men to compete with each other for their daughters.

    I think of these parents’ contradictory statements and behaviors as being similar to how employers frequently complain about not being able to find workers to fill positions. The thing is, though, that in truth, there’s no such thing as a job that can’t be filled, and interestingly, no other buyer in a market where actual products are exchanged for money is as delusional as employers are when it comes to hiring as far as I can tell. Employers will say they “can’t find anyone,” but what they really mean is they can’t find anyone at the price they want to pay. Are we that delusional if we’re trying to buy something else? If we couldn’t find a five-bedroom home in San Francisco for $10,000, would any of us claim we couldn’t find a five-bedroom home? Most of us would simply conclude we couldn’t afford one. I think unreasonably picky women and their parental enablers are as delusional as the hiring managers in these companies. If you really need someone to fill a role, you’ll make yourself attractive through incentives. Otherwise, you must not really be that interested in filling the role.

  53. Hank Flanders says:

    I like this article on the employment subject:

    http://business.time.com/2012/06/04/the-skills-gap-myth-why-companies-cant-find-good-people/

    My favorite part is:

    One manager told me that in his company 25,000 applicants had applied for a standard engineering job, yet none were rated as qualified.

    Similarly, decent looking women have many options and good looking women have thousands of options. I see some of the same women on dating sites for years. Consider how many messages a pretty woman gets in a day and multiply that by hundreds or thousands a day. Nevertheless, none of the men is good enough.

    I can think of one girl on a dating site I use sometimes that I saw on there years ago (up to five years ago I think, and I don’t know how long she was on there before that). Also, I know she’s real and usually single it seems, because I’ve kept up with her facebook page and even communicated with her once briefly on the dating site. However, I’m not good enough for her, which is fine, but what’s interesting is that no other guy seems to be either. She’s definitely attractive and still young enough to lock down a man any time she wants, but she doesn’t. She’s still pretty active on the dating site and is supposedly waiting until marriage for sex, too, but she’s apparently still single. I don’t get it.

  54. Scott says:

    And neither does this attitude magically exhaust itself after marriage. Husbands are expected to continue with this performance all the years of their marriage. My wife is so very put off that I don’t bow to her and satisfy her every whim like the husbands of her friends. I very often hear “Why can’t you be like the husband of ZZZZ? Look how he treats his wife.” Neither does she quite grasp the idea that gifts and vacations and purchased frills are a benefit of an active marriage bed. Sigh. Its gonna be a very long life. Maybe she will follow through on that divorce threat one day.

  55. feministhater says:

    Daughter of Joe very likely has tingles for men that won’t commit to marrying her. And the men who would commit to marriage don’t give her tingles. So what is she to do?

    Three quarters of the student debt in America is held by women, not men. His daughter is full of shit.

  56. feministhater says:

    He was about to retire and had lived a very modest life so he could retire early and spend time with his son – he made big $$ but put it all away for retirement, so she had an affair fucked everything up, I mean its one thing for her to grab half your assets+, have some other dude living in your home and using the vagina you’ve been paying for, reduce your access to your kid AND then deny your retirement and make you work another 15 years !!! She was young as well and could have worked another 30+ years easy.

    And just remember, if she ‘repents’ he needs to make her his wife again, otherwise he must just suffer his comeuppance for the rest of his miserable life waiting for her to grow bored of being back on the cougar carousel.

  57. feministhater says:

    Still wanna get married you tools?!

  58. feministhater says:

    She’s not looking to get married so it doesn’t matter.

    Not yet…. not yet, she will be though and then she will cry to daddy about ‘where are all the good men?’. So yes, Joe’s daughter, don’t you dare get married. Sleep in the bed you made and don’t fucking complain when you reach 30 and suddenly want to have a husband and kids. Your career can keep you warm at night.

  59. Hmm says:

    Late to the game, but the most interesting takeaway from the RealClearScience article was that the average N among the surveyed young women was 12. Even though the guys thought it was about double that, I would have thought about half. Would be interesting to see that as a distribution (do the sluts skew the average?)

    But that number should be on the mind of any guy that gets interested in a gal today. That’s a lot of experience and disappointment she brings into the relationship – and probably explains her unrealistic expectations (you’ve got to be better than a dozen other guys she’s already tried).

  60. earl says:

    Not sure if you’re being sarcastic, but it’s clear from Joe’s original post that the reason she’s not looking to get married is because she thinks she’s surrounded by debt-ridden soyboys.

    Not at all…even if she does find the tingle inducing rich Brad Pitt type she initially pursues she’s already had enough years of man hating teaching from people like her father that over time she’ll pull an Angelina on him too. If a woman has a negative mindset of marriage already…what is going to make it change if she does get married? We’ve got plenty of cases where tingles alone doesn’t do it because tingles certainly don’t last forever…and they certainly don’t last long enough to keep a marriage going.

  61. earl says:

    I guess what I’m saying is…look at the whole woman…not just her tingles. Things like her personality, attitude, size of ego, family life, etc. all come into play.

  62. earl says:

    Not yet…. not yet, she will be though and then she will cry to daddy about ‘where are all the good men?’

    Then they can both share in another moment in hating men for all being in debt vidya playing soy boys some more. If only they knew how much of a catch the beautiful man-hater is.

  63. Bee says:

    thedeti, Cane Caldo,

    “I seem to remember Cane Caldo saying something like this. A man setting his sights on one or two or three women and then pursuing them really hard trying to get on their radar isn’t the best way to find a woman who’s interested in him and who is the best match.

    Instead, he should be his best version of himself, and then see which women are tossing subtle signs of interest at him. Which women just kind of show up where he is, which ones make a point to say hi to him, which ones reach out to him, which ones contact him, which ones strike up conversations with him. And then from THOSE women he should select a few he is interested in and then pursue them.”

    This is great advice. I encourage all young, single guys to read this twice.

  64. earl says:

    We’ve used Brad Pitt as an example…well how many divorced guys can related to a crazy ex smearing their name?

    https://pagesix.com/2018/08/07/brad-pitts-pals-come-to-his-defense-hes-no-deadbeat-dad/

    I’m sure Angie had all the tingles for the guy…he’s the top 1% rich, famous, good looking…but like I said, they don’t last forever.

  65. jbarruso says:

    It’s all so stupid. A marital relationship has nothing to do with emotions or pursuit it has to do with integrity. Ruth had integrity for the people who cared for her and Esther had integrity for the people she represented. It had nothing to do with lovey-dovey feelings or an emotional compulsion to pursue. In God’s kingdom we love even our enemies. This demonstrates our obedience as a sign of our integrity and love for God.

  66. Minesweeper says:

    @feministhater says: “Still wanna get married you tools?!”

    nope 🙂

  67. Minesweeper says:

    @feministhater, I couldn’t sleep at night under a marriage contract, knowing she has a state provided loaded double barrel shotgun that she is free to use any time without consequence. Having your life ripped away from you once, is more than enough for one lifetime.

  68. JRob says:

    Still wanna get married you tools?!
    Yes. I like giving houses away. /s

  69. earl says:

    ‘She’s still pretty active on the dating site and is supposedly waiting until marriage for sex, too, but she’s apparently still single. I don’t get it.’

    Let’s hope men are finally realizing women have agency too.

    She’s single because she wants to be single. I dont know how many women I had a shot with but it’s certainly nowhere near the number of options a pretty woman has in choosing from men.

    Long story short….it’s their attitude.

  70. Boxer says:

    We’ve used Brad Pitt as an example…well how many divorced guys can related to a crazy ex smearing their name?

    If Brad Pitt can’t keep a wimminz happy. What makes me think I’ll be able to do any better?

  71. feeriker says:

    I guess what I’m saying is…look at the whole woman…not just her tingles.

    Yes, exactly. And in nine point nine nine nine cases out of ten, you won’t be able to yell “NEXT!!!” loud enough or fast enough.

  72. honeycomb says:

    Boxer sez ..
    If Brad Pitt can’t keep a wimminz happy. What makes me think I’ll be able to do any better?

    That’s the rub. NO ONE can make th wimminz happy long-term. Most of use can make them happy for 3 months.

    I learned that stating this fact at the beginning of a court-ship (girlfriend with bennies) was the cats meow.

    It gave them a challenge (1) .. and set the parameters of the relationship.

    I knew I couldn’t make wimminz happy for more than a year anyway .. so why try.

    Plates in my rotation lasted about a 4 months to a year before they became upset that they were a side-dish and not the main-course.

    I can’t recommend my past lifestyle to any youngman today. The rules of engagement have changed.

    But the rules of attraction have remained the same.

    Here’s another source to confirm my reaults ..

    (1) Me: “Yeah .. I’m a lot of fun for aboyt 3 months.” Her: “how so?” Me: “After 3 months you’ll want more of my time. And, you won’t get it.” Her: silience and mystery and tingles.

  73. Mate selection following this behavior is more basic than chivalry. Beasts do this. We need new natures or this is our lot. Feminism is the lowest common denominator of human behavior.

  74. honeycomb says:

    Coming to America?

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cleared-soldier-to-pay-rape-victim-100k-sszlrnjjf

    Men should take notice. Or don’t. Your call.

  75. Jason says:

    Attitude. (scratches head). Its hard to say about that…like wine, music, and style……it seems to be more and more subjective.

    You men all remember the “not so pretty girl” but all her friends would say “but she has such a great attitude” and you would see that she indeed does have a “decent attitude” you know, friendly enough……..had some cool attributes

    So…..how come you didn’t date her? Pursue her?

    Yeah.

    ‘Lookism’ is a word used by second wave feminists regarding men on how they judge female beauty……..and problem with this is that it is assumed that men only want a woman who steps off an ad from a higher end department store. We all knew back then that “wasn’t true” but it was made as fact.

    Looks DO matter. Even in the Christian world of dating and mating. Perhaps at one time, maybe men were more focused on this…..but I have noticed that women have upped the standards hard-core in the past decade or so. Sure, a good looking guy or girl *always* had it easier in these realms….but I am still puzzled how pre 1980-something most men and women did ‘find’ someone who pretty much matched their physical appearance to settle down with…….I have seen way too often a very mousey-plain-jane type expecting a male runway model or a dude who is waaayyy above average in looks.

    It’s a muddled of combination of things I am sure. It just isn’t “feminism” or hypergamy……..something is very cuckoo and wrong….even with professing, traditional Christian women. I know many Christian women who DO want to marry and settle down and be a wife…..but expect a man to uphold all her expectations. I’m not as smart as you all here…….

    One woman I knew from Fresno said to me during SUnday morning coffee before Holiness “I just want a nice Christian guy” and she was cute. Late twenties. Some college…….easy on the eyes….and I just said “No you don’t.” She had a look of shock that I would dare say this. I continued.

    “Look, this Corps has twenty single guys in your age range who are practicing. Who are striving. Who are not ugly. Who are *nice* and many are actually pretty interesting. You want a nice who you are very attracted to.”

    Of course I was “misreading” her and what she *really* meant. Look, she was cute…..but she was not smokin’ hot……she was average like 99% of her fellow humans.

    Of course “this was the reason I was single” (women always turn the conversation back to me and why I am single when I mention anything that borders on her discernment)

    It’s not just attitude. It’s looks a lot more than people men and women…..CHristian or not would like to admit.

  76. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    I was browsing homes on Redfin and found this misandrist house staging: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Los-Angeles/11978-Mayfield-Ave-90049/unit-3/home/8119108

    Look at Photo No. 9. The painting on the wall says Boys are stupid. Throw rocks at them.

    This home seems professionally staged by the realtor. If not staged, the realtor should have advised the homeowner to remove the painting before photographing the room.

    Who thought this painting was a good idea? Can you imagine if the painting invited people to throw rocks at girls?

    Redfin says the home was “Listed by Carmen Dixon • Rodeo Realty – Pacific Palisades • BRE #02014530.” A woman.

  77. Jason says:

    RPL…..they sell that tee-shirt at Macy’s…..in the girls department.

  78. earl says:

    ‘So…..how come you didn’t date her? Pursue her? ‘

    Because you found out her attitude. I wouldn’t trust wimminz discernment too well.

  79. earl says:

    I won’t lie…I’ve dated some women who’s looks department is probably around average (I’m not into making up stories about my exploits with supermodels)…it was their attitude that torpedoed them.

  80. Scott says:

    The “boys are stupid. Throw rocks at them” meme has been around a while.

    My realtor told me to take down all my antlers, and military related memorabilia that I have I acquired over my career because people might find it offensive.

    Physical evidence of my lifetime of service is offensive.

  81. earl says:

    It’s only offensive to those who have no fruits of a lifetime of service to show.

  82. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Jason, I googled it, and yes, I see there’s a whole history and controversy behind the Throw Rocks at Boys cartoon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boys_are_stupid%2C_throw_rocks_at_them!_controversy

  83. Oscar says:

    Off Topic: Science confirms the obvious.

    https://nypost.com/2018/08/14/men-have-better-sex-with-emotionally-unstable-women/

    Men have better sex with women who are emotionally unstable, a study has revealed.

    And women prefer men who are less agreeable but pay attention to detail, according to the German survey of a thousand people.
    ….
    For women, this included sexual desire, satisfaction, arousal and orgasm, and for men, it focused on erectile function, desire, satisfaction and orgasm.

    They found “men whose partners had less emotional stability reported better sexual function” while “lower agreeableness of a sexual partner was predictive of better sexual function in women.”

    So, crazy chicks are more fun in bed, and chicks dig jerks. Duh.

  84. Mr. Roboto says:

    @Dalrock
    This article is just ridiculous, her hamster is spinning at full speed:

    https://qz.com/729821/the-idea-that-a-womans-fertility-plummets-at-age-35-comes-from-bad-science/

  85. Scott says:

    I also had a girlfriend in graduate school who suggested that on drill weekends I come straight home before picking things up for dinner in my uniform because it was “controversial”

    An American soldier wearing his uniform in his own country.

  86. Oscar says:

    Scott,

    Where’d you go to grad school?

  87. honeycomb says:

    RPL ..

    Yep .. know your audience .. for 2.2 Million dollars .. in LA .. not lower alabama .. Lost Angles-lees Cali-forn-eye-vacation .. who-would-da-figgered .. approved by a womminz to boot.

  88. honeycomb says:

    Oscar ..

    I can confirm .. crazy ones are .. umm .. better .. sigh (sad-den-did I can confirm such things) .. at one thing in particular.

    For everything else .. they are sketchy at best .. down-right scary 99% of the time.

  89. ray says:

    feminist hater — “My girl is debt free. Why marry into such debt?
    She is moving to another house soon. NOT ONE guy in her church group offered to help. In my day in the 80’s I helped plenty of women move. No, I didn’t do it for free. My goal was to scope out the hard working and pretty chicks during the move, then ask them out.”

    Yeeks. That puts the path in pathetic. I’m embarrassed for human beings having read that.

    NOT ONE subjugated fool rushed forward to help MY PERFECT PRINCESS do her own effing job! Can you imagine what Jesus would say about such selfishness?! He’d be OUTRAGED. (Not.)

    DODO assumes that having been a trained seal himself, all other males must similarly abase themselves before Princess . . . or, he is mightily pissed. Gooma gets me shootgun!

    Times ten million = Amerika. Males exist to forward the will and way of my daughter(s). Not to serve Christ, and to be served by the nation’s daughters in correct hierarchical turn. Any deviation from that Female Imperative is an outrage and must be punished.

  90. Anon says:

    Yeeks. That puts the path in pathetic. I’m embarrassed for human beings having read that.

    NOT ONE subjugated fool rushed forward to help MY PERFECT PRINCESS do her own effing job! Can you imagine what Jesus would say about such selfishness?! He’d be OUTRAGED. (Not.)

    What is funny is that this cuckservative thought such grandstanding would actually play well here, since he thinks being a whipped beta male is virtuous. When people rightfully attacked him, he fled and didn’t defend his pathetic views at all. What a cowardly cuckservative.

  91. honeycomb says:

    Of course soon we (America; aka USofA) to will be producing video’s that beg these men to come back to the plantation ..

    As FEMINIST Denmark has .. who doesn’t see the irony of their ways .. lol .. I can hear these witches screaming “viva la resistance” all the way to the scene of the crash.

  92. Anon says:

    From the OP :

    Even worse, the longer this pattern persists the more pleased with their daughter’s marriage prospects the fathers become! I wrote a year and a half ago about the same basic topic in An attitude of abundance.

    So how does this play out in the end?

    As the prospects diminish, the father becomes more cartoonish about insisting how great her prospects are. But eventually, the reality that there are no more prospects becomes evident. How do the father and daughter cope?

    Or is it that the father secretly wishes he could marry his daughter (since she is a younger version of the wife who hates him) and can’t bear to see her actually marry?

    Either way, this is good, because if the father is obstructing the daughter’s prospects for marriage, be will be blamed in the end.

  93. earl says:

    As FEMINIST Denmark has .. who doesn’t see the irony of their ways .. lol .. I can hear these witches screaming “viva la resistance” all the way to the scene of the crash.

    So they spend the girl’s early years telling them to hate motherhood, men, and love getting a paper pushing career. Then they think they can turn around their demographic death by having men impregnant feminists so they can get on the government or child support dole. Good one, Denmark.

    I got a solution for you…bring back the patriarchy. Get rid of no-fault, quit encouraging girls to go against their nature, stop with the contraception, abortion, and promoting sex outside of marriage, along with welfare to single mothers and the women who instigate divorce.

  94. honeycomb says:

    I think Joe is like our Pastor friends here on Dalrock.

    He is the AMOG and he’s gonna keep his position secure by running evey good man down .. they ain’t man enough.

    Kinda like Denmark .. all they have now is shaming language to get you to volunteer for the “gee-uh-teen”.

    I doubt he wants to marry his daughter (re: anon comment) .. even he couldn’t please her. He’d b a single dad (because he would have to divorce gis wife). And she already shuns / bad-mouths single dads.

  95. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Or is it that the father secretly wishes he could marry his daughter (since she is a younger version of the wife who hates him) and can’t bear to see her actually marry?

    I suppose some men do “fall in love” with their daughters, in a nonsexual way.

    Perhaps because these daughters give dad the respect and admiration he should be getting from his wife, but isn’t.

    Men naturally crave respect and admiration from women. If the wife sneers and mocks her “doofus hubby,” then the man will seek respect and admiration from his daughter. She’ll naturally look up to dad in her early years. And dad, not getting any respect from his wife, will hate the idea of losing his daughter’s admiration to some younger man.

  96. Anon says:

    Roosh already described Denmark as a place that is not worth an international PUA’s time. He wrote a book called ‘Don’t Bang Denmark’ :

  97. honeycomb says:

    If I saw that video correctly .. haven’t watched in a while ..

    1) They shame men for not doing their duty and wife-in-up these amazing feminists (who are not super-models like the one in the video).
    2) You must spend on a lavish trip and food and wine (and sexy clothing) to get some.
    3) You must submit to the governments control of you regarding theft of your duties once a dad (e.g. do it for Denmark).

    It’s almost 2 minutes of complete ball-icks. No wonder that whole region is over-run with muzzies.

    The next video will contain a muzzie raping deversify-in Denmark.

    Which won’t get a rise out of the heritage Daine men anymore than their wimminz .. they sure can’t get a rise (heh) outta’em either.

  98. honeycomb says:

    whoops ..

    ..

    If I saw that video correctly .. haven’t watched in a while ..

    1) They shame men for not doing their duty and wife-in-up these amazing feminists (who are not super-models like the one in the video).
    2) You must spend on a lavish trip and food and wine (and sexy clothing) to get some.
    3) You must submit to the governments control of you regarding theft of your duties once a dad (e.g. do it for Denmark).

    It’s almost 2 minutes of complete ball-icks. No wonder that whole region is over-run with muzzies.

    The next video will contain a muzzie raping deversify-in Denmark.

    Which won’t get a rise out of the heritage Daine men anymore than their wimminz .. they sure can’t get a rise (heh) outta’em either.

  99. earl says:

    You think they would really show what kind of reward you’d have by ‘doing it for Denmark’.

    Even if she looks like that…she’ll hate you and your kids. Because her schooling and her father Joe already taught her to.

  100. earl says:

    OT: What was that Shelia and Katie about crying about women in debt?

    Sounds like this guy is a monster but pointing out things like you shouldn’t be getting into large amounts of debt can’t be ignored.

    http://www.ksnblocal4.com/content/news/Slain-Colorado-mom-painted-happy-picture-of-married-life-491125131.html

    ‘Slain Colorado mom painted happy picture of married life’

    ‘The couple had a combined income of $90,000 in 2014. But they also had tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt, along with some student loans and medical bills — for a total of $70,000 in unsecured claims on top of a sizable mortgage.

    They said in the filing that their nearly $3,000 mortgage and $600 in monthly car payments formed the bulk of their $4,900 in monthly expenses.’

  101. @Mr. Roboto: Yeah, I didn’t see any links to actual studies backing up the claim that fertility declines slowly, nor did I see the author present “corrected” statistics. A fairly recent cohort study that enrolled women before they got pregnant showed that, guess what, female fertility starts to decline in the late twenties, remains stable through about age 33, then resumes declining. I can’t access the whole paper to comment intelligently on it, but it certainly seems to support the idea that your ol’ biological clock is ticking away.

  102. honeycomb says:

    ‘Slain Colorado mom painted happy picture of married life’

    ‘The couple had a combined income of $90,000 in 2014. But they also had tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt, along with some student loans and medical bills — for a total of $70,000 in unsecured claims on top of a sizable mortgage.

    They said in the filing that their nearly $3,000 mortgage and $600 in monthly car payments formed the bulk of their $4,900 in monthly expenses.’

    Lets see .. (90k/yr income) – (58.8k/yr expenses) – (payments on 70k unsecured credit debt at probably 20%) – (Taxes and fees and misc) = Financial Wizards of Smart

    SMH .. SHE thinks a happy marriage is spending more than you earn.

    I know he thought he could turn it around and catch-up / get ahead some day .. but if she was content with spending everything they made and more .. sigh .. he took matters into his own hands.

    You ladies need to know something .. YOU ARE POOR BECAUSE YOU’RE BAD WITH MONEY!

    And this guy ahould’da learned a long time ago to say no to her needs / wants .. a divorce would’ve been cheaper and less deadly.

  103. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Yeah, but why did he kill his kids?

    The eightysomething Nigerian priest at my Catholic church says these type of killers are possessed by Satan. “The devil is real,” as he likes to say.

  104. earl says:

    ‘Yeah, but why did he kill his kids? ‘

    He is a monster after all.

    Could he have still been a monster with no debt and axed his wife and kids…who knows? But I do know that crying because someone even mentioned a woman should be debt free starts to look bad when you find a story where debt to keep up the appearence of a happy marriage was involved.

  105. Anonymous Reader says:

    Hmm
    Late to the game, but the most interesting takeaway from the RealClearScience article was that the average N among the surveyed young women was 12. Even though the guys thought it was about double that, I would have thought about half.

    The small study done at U. Waterloo in Canada some years back shows how women lie about their N. Survey details matter: the degree of anonymity is a big factor.

    Would be interesting to see that as a distribution (do the sluts skew the average?)

    Distribution across what variables? Doubt that sluts skew the averages, because women consistently lie about that on any typical survey. Experiment construction isn’t taught in the social “sciences”, therefore we get “studies” where the Confidence Interval (CI) is so wide as to render the results without meaning.

    But that number should be on the mind of any guy that gets interested in a gal today. That’s a lot of experience and disappointment she brings into the relationship – and probably explains her unrealistic expectations (you’ve got to be better than a dozen other guys she’s already tried).

    That’s life for the under 40 cohort. A woman with an N under 5 is very rare in some social circles. Churchgoing men who take their religion seriously need to be very particular what pond they go fishing in for a wife. The average bar is probably not the best place.

  106. Opus says:

    @ Scott

    It may be different now (though I doubt it) but since the 1970s no British soldier wears his uniform in public save in official displays. That might have changed in the late 90s but then for reasons other than the Irish it again became unsafe to do so.

    @Jason

    I have never thought of Welsh as a foreign language.

    @honeycomb

    There seems to be an inverse rule that the more sex is divorced from procreation the fewer the number of children born: Denmark was the first and only country so far as I am aware to commercially produce Child Pornography and now they hardly even produce children.

  107. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Scott,

    I went to an open house in Los Angeles, which house was owned by a man formerly in the Iranian military. He’d apparently served the Shah. In his office, he had medals and photos of himself in uniform on display. And a portrait of the Shah. Also some Iranian books with Persian lettering, and a small pre-1980 Iranian flag on his desk.

    I wonder how many people who walked through that house understood what this Shah memorabilia even was, or what it said about this man’s background.

  108. Anonymous Reader says:

    The other detail regarding “RealClearScience” is definitions. What is “sex”? Bill Clinton led the way to some degree; oral sex isn’t “real sex”. This may seem facetious but it is genuine. It is one reason such surveys are essentially nothing more than an extended gossip column.

  109. Anonymous Reader says:

    Dalrock
    One comment I see from fathers with surprising regularity is that their unmarried daughter is in a great position to find a husband because she’s not remotely interested in the kind of men who express interest in her.

    Once the daughter is over 30 this may change a bit.Or both of them may double down on denial. I have seen both versions in my social circle.

  110. Jason says:

    Opus….of course you wouldn’t…but alas, ond mae’r Gymraeg yn iaith mor ddefnyddiol ydyw! Rwy’n ei gymryd am yr hyn ydyw. Albion bwysig yn ddiwylliannol, barddonol ond iawn!

    Trasnlated meaning to the likes of it being such a “useful” language but more about the poetic heart, culturally important, yes but very Albion.

  111. Jason says:

    Pariah…

    I’ve prayed for a wife for almost a decade…..my last bout and round on here a month or two back with the usual suspects about how if I just “learned / applied / practiced game” I of course would be in such hot n’ heavy demand from amazing women (but they are all gold diggers and useless) and only nine and tens would want to be with my almost 50 year old self……and attraction isn’t a choice for women…they are attracted by attitude and just-can’t-help-what-they-do (pedestalizing / excusing / and encouraging this obnoxious behavior)

    I just have to accept that I was made to be single. I know for a fact, someone has prayed for me on here deeply. I felt it. Literally. (Thanks Bee). I don’t like it, it’s not “fair” but what of it at this point?

    I’ve done a lot since getting clean and sober……and I have a lot to do. Time is moving way too fast and I have plenty of adventures to be had. If a women is such a cath, so awesome and worth my time…..she certainly has not ‘demonstrated’ this to me by her actions…so it must be they don’t want someone like me. FIne.

    I don’t want them either.

    I serve God, and of course that scripture that Paul says about singles / marrieds is interpeted today in the church to mean: Singles. You need to tithe, volunteer and help more…the real men who married are busy being dads (a poor job too many of them are doing I might add) and can’t help…so see……you are needed!!!!

    Consolation prize…….since you’re not married you can run EVERYTHING for the people our church is designed for.

    AS for eastern europe? south east and east Asia? No. I am not packing up my life. Moving to a foreign country where I do not speak the language, have to learn everything all over again and play this “game” in a foreign country. Vetting. Dating. Finding a decent job. No.

    Too many commenters here make it as if you just go over and tomorrow you will have a docile, perfect Christian wife.

    Seen a PLENTY of divorces and frivorces here in the USA by these “feminine eastern european types” once they get here…..nailing the x to the Orthodox cross in child support. Lots and lots of divorced Phillipinas, Thais, and Viets here too……and I am sure they were “amazing” feminine women who just wanted a husband to love them….

  112. Novaseeker says:

    I have seen way too often a very mousey-plain-jane type expecting a male runway model or a dude who is waaayyy above average in looks.

    It’s a muddled of combination of things I am sure. It just isn’t “feminism” or hypergamy……..something is very cuckoo and wrong….even with professing, traditional Christian women.

    Jason —

    The main factors are (1) women getting tons of attention via social media from thousands of men (yes even average looking women get tons of attention from men), which drives up their self-perception and (2) financial independence of women, which makes them more inclined to wait and “swing for the seats” because “there is no rush”. These are the two main drivers, and they apply to pretty much all Christian women as much as they do to secular women.

  113. Pingback: Did an orphan girl from an exiled people dream of one day becoming queen of all Persia? | Dalrock

  114. earl says:

    Bill Clinton led the way to some degree; oral sex isn’t “real sex”. This may seem facetious but it is genuine.

    He’s right…however he didn’t call it what it really is…sodomy.

  115. Boxer says:

    Seen a PLENTY of divorces and frivorces here in the USA by these “feminine eastern european types” once they get here…..nailing the x to the Orthodox cross in child support. Lots and lots of divorced Phillipinas, Thais, and Viets here too……and I am sure they were “amazing” feminine women who just wanted a husband to love them….

    That is absolutely true. It seems that most MGTOW, who get married, do so after emigrating to some other place, setting up a life there, and only then tie the knot.

    Even for them, a civilized life is not guaranteed. Conservative Republicans in the USA are currently waging war worldwide to spread feminism around to these once safe havens. We must intervene with sanctions and military strikes, they tell us, to liberate the poor, oppressed wimminz. Even Trump has started talking this shit, and he was not a Conservative Republican.

    Those societies which the American conservatives are slated to “change” will likely proceed, legislatively, without any warning to the husbands and fathers who live there. Go to Latin America or Ukraine, and marry, and your marriage will be changed from a reasonable patriarchal one, to a feminist pseudomarriage overnight. Then you’re back in the same boat.

  116. Jason says:

    Thanks Nova…..yeah……I have been a littlse surprised with some of the younger women I have met at churches and all……..no personality, average looking or even a tad lower, nothing interesting about them…..but wants the the top-guy in the church, and this guy has no idea who she is…but she’s convinced that she can get him to like her.

    Christians are not exempt from delusions and mental illness either. This is in turn makes many guys within her league and range in the church off limits to her…and down they go to the nether regions of women with food issues (obseity) and looking for disabled women, or women with such challenges that are exasperating…including the IQ lower than my cat.

  117. earl says:

    Churchgoing men who take their religion seriously need to be very particular what pond they go fishing in for a wife. The average bar is probably not the best place.

    Yes there is something to be said WHERE you go fishing.

    You can’t throw a lure in a slut pond and expect a wife to come out of it.

  118. Hank Flanders says:

    Jason,

    AS for eastern europe? south east and east Asia? No. I am not packing up my life. Moving to a foreign country where I do not speak the language, have to learn everything all over again and play this “game” in a foreign country. Vetting. Dating. Finding a decent job. No.

    How about just going on a trip to see what it’s like? That’s what I’m hoping to do soon. In fact, Dale from this thread:

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2016/08/04/feminist-atlantic-waxes-conservative/#comment-215888

    Are you still around? Are you planning to make a trip again anytime soon?

  119. Opus says:

    @Hmmm at 07.03am

    Anecdote: I, some years ago (thanks to the invention of Facebook) was talking by skype to a former girlfriend. She was telling me about her train-wreck of a life. She informed me of her N – now I knew to double that but wanting a round number I reduced my calculation somewhat to just one hundred. She informed me that most of her lovers were no good. I apologised for my poor performance but she told me that in fact I was one of the good ones – in the top 10% she said that is to say in the top ten. Was I proud of my achievement? Not really for were I even mid-way in her top 10 at say No 6. that meant that there were five other guys whom she had preferred.

  120. Jason says:

    Hank…I have no desire to visit eastern europe. I really don’t. I spent ten months in Inida back in the late 1990’s…..had a wonderful stay but I like hot water. fresh produce and fluffy towels. Living in a third world country is not glamorous. Got head lice bad a few times, had to use DDT to wash my hair out a few times.

    Now, I know Poland is not third world but……no……..I don’t like the food (am half-polish) and balkinized SE Europe is just that….as soon as the UN forces leave that are stationed there….those Slavs are going to slaughtering each other again.

    I’m going to the UK in 2019 for almost a month. No, I’m noty going to meet a “nice British girl” the last one that was left came over in 1964 and married my dad.

    My future plans after that include hiking, backpacking and camping A TON more. The only time I feel really connected and part of something so vast and not of this world is when I am cooking over a fire, camping and sleeping under the stars in the shadow of mountains, ponds, bogs, and streams. Thankfully the USA has a billion a areas to do this in. Thanks for your suggestions though. I know you meant well

  121. @thedeti I can confirm that Cane’s advice is solid. Those of us who have followed it have had good results. My wife weeded my garden with me before I started a relationship with her. Moose Norseman’s wife followed him on a mile-long loop something like thirteen times before he started to talk to her. If you focus on making your life better, girls will want in on that. I should write up more of my story. One of these days I will.

  122. Hank Flanders says:

    Jason,

    Now, I know Poland is not third world but……no……..I don’t like the food (am half-polish)

    Doesn’t that mean you should at least like half the food? 🙂

    Anyway, OK, so you’ve got your reasons for not wanting to go, but you (and others) should at least keep in mind that many places are a lot more civil, modern, and non-third world and offer more choices than we might think. Anyone interested can just go online to see that. I find youtube videos especially helpful.

    I agree with you about the UK. I get the impression that the prospects there are just as bad if not worse than in the US.

    I personally love hiking and camping (and would like to get back into backpacking), but I’d prefer to not do those things alone or always just with other guys if I can help it, but maybe that’s just me.

  123. Lost Patrol says:

    @honeycomb

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cleared-soldier-to-pay-rape-victim-100k-sszlrnjjf

    Men should take notice. Or don’t. Your call.

    One thing I noticed at that link, is that the man cleared of rape charges (but fined for it anyway) was publicly identified by name, age, occupation,and photograph. The woman however “cannot be named”. I guess this has something to do with the justice is blind motto I’ve heard so much about.

  124. ray says:

    Anon — ‘Or is it that the father secretly wishes he could marry his daughter (since she is a younger version of the wife who hates him) and can’t bear to see her actually marry?’

    In the ballpark. There is a strong psycho-sexual component to this phenomenon, vastly encouraged by the endless incentives and assumptions of feminist societies of the West. Satanic incentives and assumptions. Which now are pro forma in the ‘churches’. Been discussed in these pages a number of times.

    With these deals it’s usually not overt sexuality, especially with bio-dads, but yes, these Shotgun DODOs certainly do not want their daughters being married at a proper age (i.e., don’t want them sexually experienced). Of course most of these females have been having sex of one kind or another since early teendom. Ain’t no way DODO is facing that truth, however. And why should he face any truth when he’s a hero in Femerica for doing things the devil’s way instead of God’s?

  125. Minesweeper says:

    @Anonymous Reader says:”Once the daughter is over 30 this may change a bit.”

    once she hits 40 then things will get really interesting.

  126. honeycomb says:

    @ Lost Patrol ..
    “I guess this has something to do with the justice is blind motto I’ve heard so much about.”

    It’s time to name the (false) accusers .. but no one in the judical system wants to do the heavy lifting of actually putting the data together about the false allegations and the high likelyhood it’s a false claim.

    They’ve purposely changed definitions and the standard of evidence to muddy the waters.

    And a lot of places (locals) refuse to keep or produce data.

    It’s a bloody mess and no one cares about these forgotten men and the likely suicide or life ruined that follows .. it’s high time to find these wimminz out and publish it for all men to know who has and who has not made false claims.

  127. Anonymous Reader says:

    Bill Clinton led the way to some degree; oral sex isn’t “real sex”. This may seem facetious but it is genuine.

    Earl
    He’s right…however he didn’t call it what it really is…sodomy.

    Slutwalkers totally agree with you.

  128. Luke says:

    Boxer says:
    August 18, 2018 at 10:14 am
    “We’ve used Brad Pitt as an example…well how many divorced guys can related to a crazy ex smearing their name?
    If Brad Pitt can’t keep a wimminz happy. What makes me think I’ll be able to do any better?”

    Four women walked out on Clark Gable. Ronald Reagan’s first wife left him because she didn’t think he’d go far enough to suit her. Men have to stop worrying about making women happy long-term; it can’t be done. The saying is that women have snakes in their head, and you can’t fix crazy.

  129. Joe says:

    “which women just kind of show up where he is, which ones make a point to say hi to him, which ones reach out to him, which ones contact him, which ones strike up conversations with him. And then from THOSE women he should select a few he is interested in and then pursue them.”

    Great advice, possibly. A lot depends on the venues where the women just kind of show up, say hi, etc. In Christian settings (such as church services and bible studies) women may make an outward display of friendliness out of obligation. They may also be putting on a show for the other single women, as I was told by a much older married Christian women. Men can very easily misinterpret their friendliness for interest when it is anything but interest. He will learn quickly learn this when he gets not just a rejection, but a nuclear rejection. I know, I speak from experience.

  130. Anon says:

    Jason,

    I don’t like the food (am half-polish)

    Ah…. now we finally might be getting somewhere in terms of cracking the mystery about how a man who is 6’4″ and was a bartender, has never kissed a girl. I, and others, have always found this almost impossible to believe.

    Being an American should, in most cases, wash out the beta from your Polish half, but in my experience, Polish men are extremely beta – among the worst in the world. Polish women are among the most out-marrying women in the world, for this reason.

    There might be some hereditary beta elements in your psyche, on account of being half-Polish.

  131. Anon says:

    Boxer,

    Conservative Republicans in the USA are currently waging war worldwide to spread feminism around to these once safe havens. We must intervene with sanctions and military strikes, they tell us, to liberate the poor, oppressed wimminz.

    Bingo. People think it is the secular left doing this, but they are not the primary force with the greatest zeal and laser focus. It is cuckservatives.

    Three months after 9/11/01, the cuckservatives were out in force about how ‘women needed to be liberated from Islam’ and how their whiteknighting would impress the women of the world. When that did not happen in the slightest, they did not look inward even one iota.

  132. Jason says:

    Lol! Sure Anon….whatever…..didn’t stop my father, his six brothers from marrying to solid women. With my fathers generation (my 14 aunts and uncles…….all married, none ever divorced).

    As for Polish women? Lol, watched the Miss Universe pagent a decade and half ago while I was visitng some aunts on my dad’s side…..I’m the kitchen, and they call for me “Hurry Jason, Miss Poland is coming up!”

    I just replied “Well, I hope she remembered to wax!”

    Which caused HOWLS of laughter from my cousins, and uncles….none of my Polish aunts thought it was funny. So as for Polish women outmarrying…….my reply is “to what”

    Americans? Brits? The food is terrible, the accent is choppy and the only claim in current fame is singer Bobby Vinton.

  133. Sharkly says:

    Jason says: If a women is such a cath,

    I assume that was a typo, but it made me LOL. When I worked in “Medical Devices” with PWDs(People With Disabilities) many with spinal cord injuries, they used the word “cath” as shorthand for catheterization. They’d say, I gotta go cath. Instead of, I gotta go pee. Meaning they’d be shoving a tube up their dick so that they could drain their bladder.
    Yes indeed some women are probably about as pleasant as shoving a tube up your dick.

  134. Jason says:

    I identify more with my mothers people / side……..the Polish side…yes they are good people. Tough. They endured a lot and they were all they had during the war, occupation and then liberated by the Soviets…..they came to USA and struggled hard on a dairy farm……they all made something of themselves…….

    So, to be Polish is a deep ingrained endurance, tenacity, thrift, hard work, stubborness……but sorrow…..what sorrow throughout the centuries they endured from the east and west! Betrayal at the end of the war by the western powers…..

    Culturally……man…..such typical behavior of large cultural Catholic families…….petty, always having someone they had to be upset with, or on the outs with in the family……..so many weddings growing up, first communions with cousins…always polka music…Christmas Eve at my great aunts small farm…….them never liking my mother……well, after she died, then all spoke glowing of her.

    I still hate pierogies.

  135. Anon says:

    Jason,

    Lol! Sure Anon….whatever…..didn’t stop my father, his six brothers from marrying to solid women. With my fathers generation (my 14 aunts and uncles…….all married, none ever divorced).

    Means nothing, since times were different. Having spent a good amount of time in India, you surely have noticed that every single Indian man marries and has kids. That most emphatically does not mean they are competent seducers, since it is a Marriage 1.0 society. Your Polish ancestors lived under a similar cultural structure (as did 1920s-era Americans). No decades of dating, no pre-marital sex, no single mothers by choice.

    The fact that you would even use this example indicates an extreme lack of awareness of how different their world was than yours (and how you too would have married and had children in that era).

    Don’t get me wrong – Polish men make great employees and good neighbors. But in terms of doing well with women in the modern dating/marriage market – no. They are among the worst in terms of sheer betatude.

    Hey, for you this is good news. Your situation may in fact be partly out of your control. Hence, you can stop beating yourself up about doing extremely poorly with women.

  136. Anon says:

    Jason,

    So as for Polish women outmarrying…….my reply is “to what”

    Americans? Brits? The food is terrible, the accent is choppy and the only claim in current fame is singer Bobby Vinton.

    Well, in Britian, Polish women marry local British men, but about a third of them marry Africans and South Asians. Polish men in Britain, by contrast, often don’t get to marry at all.

  137. Jason says:

    You seem to think Polish women are some “european prize” I don’t know what planet you are on.

  138. Jason says:

    Glad I have your permission in these matter Anon…..have no idea what I would have done if you did not tell me this, releasing me of this burden 😉

  139. Jason says:

    As for Polish men in Britain not marrying…I’d say many of them are actually probably lucky dodging a serious bullet of divorce, being cheated on, bent over, lubed, and then probed anally by the court system in Britian pertaining to divorce…….probably STD free too. Most Poles tend to be taller than average too. Other benefits? They are not too far from the motherland if they really desire a visit, cool clothing and music are for the taking in Britain still. Like you said, good workers and neighbors…so I am sure they are getting along fine

  140. Anon says:

    Jason,

    Glad I have your permission in these matter Anon…..have no idea what I would have done if you did not tell me this, releasing me of this burden 😉

    Well, you certainly whine a lot about how bad you have it. Your subconscious desperately wants guidance, but then your conscious mind gets angry when the help is provided by the very generous people here.

    But the good news is that your Polish heritage is probably the reason you have a scarcely believable dearth of basic success with women. I agree that Game may not help you quite as easily as it has helped other men.

  141. Hank Flanders says:

    Anon

    But in terms of doing well with women in the modern dating/marriage market – no. They are among the worst in terms of sheer betatude.

    Don’t tell me that! My nephew’s half Polish, and unless I produce a male heir, my nephew may be entrusted with carrying on the “Flanders” name.

  142. Anon says:

    Hank,

    Don’t tell me that! My nephew’s half Polish, and unless I produce a male heir, my nephew may be entrusted with carrying on the “Flanders” name.

    Uh oh. Extreme training in Game must start early. He is starting the 100M dash from 25M behind the start line. Overcoming this is not impossible, but it takes extra work.

    OR,

    Produce a male heir.

  143. Bee says:

    Jason,

    I will continue to pray for you.

    Congratulations on the new job managing commercial real estate!

  144. Paul says:

    Times might be fast approaching where “seven women will take hold of one man and say, “We will eat our own food and provide our own clothes; only let us be called by your name. Take away our disgrace!”” (Isa 4:1)

    It is precede by (Isa 3:12)

    Youths oppress my people, women rule over them. My people, your guides lead you astray; they turn you from the path.

    and followed by (3:16,17)

    The LORD says, “The women of Zion are haughty, walking along with outstretched necks, flirting with their eyes, strutting along with swaying hips, with ornaments jingling on their ankles.Therefore the Lord will bring sores on the heads of the women of Zion; the LORD will make their scalps bald.”

  145. Robert What? says:

    I don’t have a daughter but I’m unclear why a father would be proud that his daughter has no interest in any of the men who are interested in her? Is it because he has met them and thinks they are unworthy, or is it more the concept? Will he still feel as proud when she is 39?

  146. Luke says:

    Semi-on topic: graph showing how people meet SOs now: https://nalert.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-irresistible-rise-of-internet.html

    I have two bones to pick with its likely accuracy.
    First, bar meeting percentages have to be plummeting, as Tinder, etc. take over. I’ve read too many news items about those places hurting bad for business now, due to “let’s do the dirty RTFN!” smartphone apps taking over.

    Second, how can “same-sex” types be meeting in CHURCH? It’s not a Christian place (and the gomer in front saying “do whatever feels good, it’s fine with God” is no minister) if those types are even welcome there, unless it’s in a state of humble repentance.

  147. Sharkly says:

    Well, you [Jason] certainly whine a lot about how bad you have it. Your subconscious desperately wants guidance, but then your conscious mind gets angry when the help is provided by the very generous people here.

    This situation is perplexing. I also would like to help Jason. And there really are no easy solutions. Much of the advice offered, he has already ruled out. Jason mentioned on another thread that he had spent money to have an online dating profile professionally honed. It is almost like Jason wants somebody to take his money again promising him success with women. He doesn’t seem to want to work on little aspects thinking they don’t ever work, but wants somebody to show up selling him a complete solution, magic marriage beans, Unicorn in a box, or a prayer that is guaranteed to work. While I like to find the root cause and a once and for all solution for things too, I don’t see that as happening any time soon. I doubt some new person will show up on here and have all the answers that all work for Jason. And until Jesus shows up again, this world is going to stay very messed up under Satan’s influence. I’ll say another prayer for you Jason. And I guess I’d just recommend either trying to stay content and take people’s word for it here, that you’re on the side of the fence with the most green grass, not believing Hollywood that life is all about sex, money, fame, power, and pleasure, or to take heed to all the advice given and try things you don’t believe will work. Because, not to be Dr. Phil, but, what you’re doing hasn’t worked.

    Jason, have you prayed giving this area of your life over to God, and cast this burden onto Him? You do seem to be burdened by it. Whether or not you have prayed that, do it again. Pray for the peace that passes all understanding. Pray for Christ’s love, and to be able to share it with those around you. Pray that you would see yourself, as God would want you to see yourself. Pray for renewed contentment, and the joy of your salvation. Pray for mercy, and pray for the grace to endure all tribulations well. Pray for wisdom. Fear God and flee from evil. Thank God for creating you in His image and glory, and for predestining you to be a vessel of honor, a firstfruit unto Himself.

  148. mike says:

    As their 29 yr old daughters come to terms with the few betas that earn similar to themselves that are left in this mad max economy, these women will have two choices – remain single and sail off with a harem of cats, or con a betaboi that they aren;t physically attracted to into a divorce prone, deadbeadroom marriage.
    Hope the storehouse of slut memories in college beat out the rewards of motherhood.

    https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/55dbdb1d170000b700568767.jpeg?ops=crop_0_400_750_336,scalefit_720_noupscale

  149. Opus says:

    There seems to be the impression given on this thread that should an American go wife hunting (female theft I call it) in England and make an offer to a British female that she will automatically acquiesce and marry the said American male (even though she may well turn out to be a frivorcee). I rather doubt it: we may envy your greater wealth but that I am afraid is about it.

    As for Poland – a vast amount isn’t even properly theirs – Prussia belongs to Germany!

  150. Paul says:

    Prussia belongs to Germany … just as the rest of the world belongs as Lebensraum to das Dritte Reich.

  151. Jason says:

    Anon…..your advice has been patronizing and insulting from day one. It took me awhile to realize that you are a pretty cruel guy.

    Sharkly…..again…the advice here that has been “helpful” even by Dalrock has been:

    *learn Game
    *move overseas

    For all you men who have mastered game……you spend an awesome amount of time on here extolling its virtues. FOr all your mastery of game….some of you unfortunately have been through some painful situations with women, which just makes me wonder……..some of you are miserable….and now you MUST make all men misreable by given them this tewrrible advice…..and moving obverseas and marrying an amzing, sexy, hot, prefcet Christian woman who “just wants to be a submissive wife” because America is feminized and cucked is hardly “real talk” and “real advice”

    You guys DO like to pat yourselves on the back every chance you get…….I might add.

    You also make bedding a woman or dating one, or getting attention by one the “end all be all of existence” and with that, you all seem to brag about that.

    🙂

  152. Jason says:

    Opus…its a common attitude here that men have to go overseas and marry, and viewed as the only “reasonable” solution for a man. His sons? Should they go overseas???

    No…no…nope….you see they have raised their sonms to be these amazing, manly men who have all the NAWALTS and unicorns throwing themselves at them…..you understand……..so there is no need for them to go obverseas.

    Who in this room, moved to Vietnam, or Slovokia, or Croatia learned the language, got work, vetted women, dated women…….inm a Christian mannet, married her…moved back here and hais this amazing marriage?????

    crickets

  153. Opus says:

    That Jason to me sounds like Matrimonial Colonialism. You have approximately one hundred and seventy million females in America many of whom are unmarried (I met some) and yet you tell me that your fellow countrymen have passed them all by and intend to steal those of other countries. If your females are that awful then celibacy is by far the better option because once your Thai take-away or COD former-soviet bride has been in the country ten minutes she will be acting-up just like all the American bitches. I tend to take the view that any American (or Briton) who feels the need to go abroad for a spouse is advertising that he does not have what it takes and had been aiming out of his league rather than demonstrating in going abroad desirability – at least for the longer term and that surely is what marriage is rather than time limited prostitution – though I grant there are less third and fourth world land-whales but those Russian women do rather turn into Easter-Island statutes with age.

    You however are (or will next July) be an honourary Briton and so should you catch the eye of one of our females I would of course have absolutely no objection. Welsh accent: not necessarily an advantage in London unless you claim to be a poet or are female, as the Welsh sing-song tends to make them sound stupid. Even if you don’t look like Cary Grant you will sound like him – this can only raise your SMV about three points and have any English female on her knees.

    Anon is a game believer – don’t take it personally, for I am sure that is not how it is meant.

  154. Jason says:

    Lol…..it’s June Opus….but yeah, as the time gets closer we’ll work it out. We’ll meet for drinks / dinner on me….well, you may drink..I’ll have a Rockstar or some sort of energy drink on the rocks.

    The Welsh I have spoken Welsh with claim I have “an American accent” and spend more time telling me how I was not “taught” to speak the language of the Bards properly. Sigh, shakes head …..”the Welsh”

    I am just going to have fun. Do what I want to do, and represent myself as a US Citizen properly as a guest in a foreign country like I always have when I have been abroad.

    I just ordered online my Oyster Pass for transit in London. In January I am going to purchase my rail tickets (to Manchester, then to Betws Y Coed, and the return to London). I have to save a grip of money. I really want to be able to have no financial fears while over there. Spring Break in 1992 I spent in the Bahamas…..ran out of money with four days to go……what a miserey!

  155. Oscar says:

    @ Jason

    “again…the advice here that has been “helpful” even by Dalrock has been:

    *learn Game
    *move overseas”

    Again… Dalrock also offered to correspond with you privately so he could give you more specific advice, and you refused, and you always leave that part out. Why is that?

  156. Boxer says:

    Dear Fellas:

    “again…the advice here that has been “helpful” even by Dalrock has been:
    *learn Game
    *move overseas”

    Well, I told you to start chatting up the women that you were already dancing with. You told me that it was a sausage-fest, and that the few women at the nightclubs and parties you already frequent were all already troublemaking whores. I think this is probably bullshit, but O.K..

    I can’t blame you for not wanting to move to a third-world shithole (Guatemala) or neo-communist plantation (China, Vietnam) simply to wife up some bitch who will end up divorcing you anyway, once the American GOP gets done socially engineering your new society into a facsimile of this one, complete with lifetime alimony laws and social workers.

    Again… Dalrock also offered to correspond with you privately so he could give you more specific advice, and you refused, and you always leave that part out. Why is that?

    How do you know he refused? They could go out for beers every Thursday, and they’d have no reason to tell us about it.

  157. Oscar says:

    How do you know he refused?

    Because Jason said so.

  158. Boxer says:

    Again… Dalrock also offered to correspond with you privately so he could give you more specific advice, and you refused, and you always leave that part out.

    Because Jason said so.

    Contradiction

  159. Oscar says:

    Jason said “no thanks” in his response to Dalrock when Dalrock offered. Ever since then, whenever Jason brings up Dalrock’s advice, Jason always leaves out the facts that Dalrock offered to correspond with him, and that Jason said “no thanks”. Got it?

  160. Kevin says:

    I agree with this post, we follow the pattern of courtly love. I have have seen women family and friends that are too proud to realize where they are in the marketplace. They get attention but the men are not doctors and models so they do not reciprocate. They just wait for some Superman out of their reach. It’s a tradgedy. Fathers need to warn their daughters to be realistic.

    Related, though courtly love has taught wrong lessons we cannot revert to the more women pursuing men because in our culture (wrong or right) that would signal a modern feminist woman not a traditional woman who might be wiling to have a more humble traditional and happy marriage. Women now pursuing men are likely 90% of the wrong type.

  161. Anon says:

    Jason,

    Anon…..your advice has been patronizing and insulting from day one. It took me awhile to realize that you are a pretty cruel guy.

    False. I spent my precious time trying to help you. You even told Scott that he was cruel (he is one of the purest souls around). And yes, you told Dalrock ‘no thanks’ when he generously offered to help you one-on-one.

    You are just hell-bent on going to great lengths to be unhappy and wallow in self-pity. News flash : only women can do that and actually get sympathy.

    Even here, you have become disagreeable, by denigrating Polish women (who rank pretty high on the desirability ranking) just to avoid the fact that being a Polish (or half-Polish) male has a lot to due with your innate betatude.

  162. Jason says:

    Dalrocks advice: Move to a foreign country.

    You all seem to forget that.

    I grew up around Polish women, born and raised in Poland. I have a little more handle on that than most of you do.

    I called Scott cruel? Okay. I don’t recall that, but if you claim that…..it must be true

    And since I am Polish, and according to you, they are the worst of men aroiund when it comes to diserablity, well……….all men are indeed fools compared to you. You vigor for arrogance is a bit apalling. You precisous time usually invoves negging, degrading, putting down and just being belligerent.

    I could hang around women and get that.

  163. Anon says:

    Jason squeaked :

    Sharkly…..again…the advice here that has been “helpful” even by Dalrock has been:

    *learn Game
    *move overseas

    I actually disagree with the second bit of advice, since Jason would have to learn Game before moving overseas could even be considered. If he can’t even get a girl to kiss him (despite being a 6’4″ former bartender), this will not dramatically change by going overseas. Even to Poland.

    Hence, Game first.

    For all you men who have mastered game……you spend an awesome amount of time on here extolling its virtues. FOr all your mastery of game….some of you unfortunately have been through some painful situations with women, which just makes me wonder……..some of you are miserable….and now you MUST make all men misreable by given them this tewrrible advice…..

    This incoherent screed is contradictory, and contains mangina grammar.

  164. Anon says:

    Jason,

    I grew up around Polish women, born and raised in Poland. I have a little more handle on that than most of you do.

    I know. Once you revealed this, it explains a lot. Among other things, why you have had unusually low success with women, and can’t seem to learn Game. Deep betatude is a deep-seated trait of the males of the Polish ethnicity.

    Polish women are pretty and (for now) quite resistant to feminism, making them very high on the world ranking of female desirability. You, of course, get angry when this fact is pointed out, and find it necessary to denigrate them. Due to the point I mentioned above about the unique betatude of Polish men, they are just about THE most outmarrying group of women (even more so than East Asian women in the West).

  165. Hope says:

    WARNING: Dinah, Daughters & Chivalry

    Please review Genesis 33:17-20; Gen. 34; Gen. 35:1-5.

    “And Dinah the daughter of Leah, which she bare unto Jacob, went out to see the daughters of the land. And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the country, saw her, he took her, and lay with her, and defiled her.”

    Synopsis: Dinah, the daughter of Jacob and Leah, deliberately left the protection of her family home and the protective covering of her father Jacob [the great patriarch, son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham, to whom GOD promised: “I AM GOD Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee will I give the land.”].

    Dinah deliberately left the promises and protection and provision of the Great “I AM” to gain a deeper knowledge and understanding of the dark arts and practices of feminist theology in the immersive study of the unquenchable, insatiable, bloodthirsty appetites of the fertility goddess Asherah and her b*stard son Baal among the Canaanite daughters, who were enemies of GOD marked for destruction and eternal damnation.

    Shechem, the son of Hamor [who sold a parcel of land in Canaan to Jacob for his family estate], saw Dinah unchaperoned, liberated from her people, liberated from her father, and liberated from the GOD of her father, on His land, among His women, surrounded by His deities, took Dinah captive and defiled her.

    The repercussions were catastrophic! Simeon and Levi, Dinah’s brothers, became her avenging white knights-SJWs-chivalrous vigilantes, committed an unsanctioned, unlawful act of vengence that plunged the entire house of Israel into warfare with Canaan and their surrounding nation alliances preparing to deploy their unified military forces. Jacob, his household and cattle were forced to flee Canaan to prevent their annihilation. Chivalry promotes and reinforces women’s rebellious spirit and nullifies the consequences of their dangerous, suicidal, and homicidal actions.

    Dinah’s rebellion nearly resulted in the extermination (holocaust) of the natural and spiritual nations of Holy Israel, the erradication of the family line of Messiah, and GOD’s redemptive plan for humanity. Dinah’s willful act of casting-off her headcovering nearly resulted in the slaughter of her people and an emerging civilization based on Judeo-Christianity.

    Dinah despised, rejected, and intentionally removed her spiritual and natural headcovering to assimilate with the heathen world and underworld. Dinah (like the daughters of Caleb) was a daughter of The Promise, and would have shared in her father’s inheritance. Instead, Dinah (like her uncle Esau) hated being set-apart and abandoned her birthright to pursue friendship with the world and enmity with GOD.

    Dinah was a rebellious, independent, selfish, empowered, entitled, prideful, privileged, destructive, feminist. Dinah’s spiritual and natural allegiance was exposed to reveal her venomous ambitions for enlightment and indulgence in religious perversion, promiscuity, and infanticide. You’ll recall, members of Jacob’s household actively worshipped pagan gods/goddesses, including Dinah’s aunt Rachel and her grandfather Laban. Dinah became seduced, deceived and indoctrinated in paganism that nearly plunged humanity into the second fall of mankind.

    Modern professing Christian women and the modern church continue to repeat, reinforce, reproduce, and export these temporal and eternal dangers by advancing the ecumenical gospel of feminism/humanism worldwide. Ancient and modern feminist theology is based on the unadulterated hatred of Jehovah GOD, and has always sought to destroy life, corrupt the WORD, and pervert the church. Feminism is indeed the great wh-re of Revelation.

    Feminism is the first pagan religion introduced in the Garden, and will (most likely) be the last pagan religion to stand, until the Warrior King of Kings returns with HIS angelic army.

    Dinah failed to cultivate a gentle, meek and quiet spirit of humility, obedience, discernment, and submissiveness to her earthly and heavenly Fathers. Dinah rejected authority and did not fear her father nor the Almighty GOD. Dinah rejected the fellowship of true believers. Dinah neglected her duties and role in her family home.

    Dinah possessed a contentious spirit and was actively searching for trouble. How? Dinah never informed her parents or brothers or servants that she intended to leave the family compound to socialize among the Canaanite women. Dinah was fully cognizant that she was placing herself and her family in danger to engage in open rebellion against GOD who condemned and forbade that behavior.

    Feminism continues to be just as deadly and defiling now, as it was then.

  166. Jason says:

    Polish women are pretty now? Wow. None of the women at the Polska Community Center in Amsterdam, New York never drove me mad with desire…….or at any of the local festivals growing up or as a young man. So now it’s all genetic / eugenic concerning traits of ethnic groups…….

    Let me guess, you read books and vlogs about Polish women. Where are the charts, demographics and ind epth studies about this. Would just love to pour over this

  167. Anon says:

    Polish women are pretty now?

    This view is not uncommon. It is amazing how keen you are to bash them.

    Let me guess, you read books and vlogs about Polish women.

    Actually, I have had sex with two of them. I have also had Russian, Ukrainian, and German women. Both Polish women told me they have never been attracted to Polish men.

    BTW, Roosh wrote a Game book specifically about how to bed Polish women in Poland. You should check it out, as it could help you. I haven’t read it.

  168. Jason says:

    No thanks I don’t have to read about “banging” Polish women. You have had sex with two Polish women. Well……and you took what they said as gold about Polish men. I guess that is a consensus! All men are fools compared to you Anon 😉

  169. Jason says:

    Hookers also tell men that they “were the best they ever had” too

  170. Boxer says:

    Hookers also tell men that they “were the best they ever had” too

    I’ve never been with a pro, but can attest to the fact that Tinder skanks use this line constantly. As far as frequency, it is probably outpaced by:

    Oh Boxer! It’s so huge!
    and
    Wow! I’ve never fucked on the first date before!

    Both of which are also always bullshit.

  171. Anon says:

    But you admit your betatude, Jason, and I have told you that this is an infamous trait of the males of the Polish ethnicity (and you know this is true; you are just angry that the outside world knows it as well). There is nothing for you to disagree with*.

    But to insist that Polish women are unattractive rather than work on your own self-improvement – that is sad.

    *Unless you repeat the stupid statement of how the SMP and MMP of 50 years ago is the same as today, where people got paired up in marriage under Marriage 1.0, much like in India, where you have also been.

  172. Jason says:

    I suppose all have their own preferences……..but to say Polish women are desirable? Hard working? Yes. Non-feminist? Okay……I’ll buy that with a return policy……..but to say they are beautiful? Desired by the world and outmarry more than any other ethnic group?

    Feel soory for the men they marry. Babushka and Bapshe are pretty frightening after the first kid and the age of 35. Love my aunts dearly…..my godmother is a saint of women…..but even while young………none of them were stopping traffic.

  173. Boxer says:

    Dear Anon:

    Unless you repeat the stupid statement of how the SMP and MMP of 50 years ago is the same as today, where people got paired up in marriage under Marriage 1.0, much like in India, where you have also been.

    You don’t know much about what India has turned into, apparently. I’ll let my nigga tell you…

    https://themalefactor.com/2015/07/15/foreign-nationals-beware-cruel-indian-brides-looking-for-you/

  174. Jason says:

    So being a beta now is incurable…..if you are Polish. What a crock.

  175. They Call Me Tom says:

    Off topic, but the Sunday morning comic strips for Dilbert and Pearls Before Swine today were pretty good shots at modern feminism. Not that women in general read newspapers. On second thought, the PBS one is on topic I suppose.

  176. earl says:

    @Boxer

    Take out the Indian part and this is just good advice overall…
    I wouldn’t call this ‘game’…I’d call it common sense.

    ‘Here are some of the tips that one can follow to judge an Indian girl –

    1. Don’t fall for her easily. Let her win you.

    2. Even if you are madly in love with her, don’t show. Let her be jealous of other women around you.

    3. Don’t start pampering her from day one to win the competition from other guys around her. Let her notice you in a normal way.

    4. Expect her to pay your bills or win your confidence each time you pay her bills. Let her know that it was special every time you paid her bill.

    5. Know if she had a mother controlled family and childhood. Meet her family members to understand what happens inside.

    6. Look for cues of how she tells lies to others in front of you. Those cues will help you catch her lies easily.

    7. See her opinion about her own family members. Most often cruel women blame everyone around them for all their miseries.

    8. See how many divorcees in her family. Avoid single mother children.

    9. Check if she or her family is in hurry about marriage.’

  177. rdchemist says:

    My perspective on game is that it’s peeked. The market is saturated and women have gotten wise to it.

    I remember reading The Game by Strauss sometime in the 2000’s. Even during the 18 monthe to two year time period that the book covers, the girls in LA were already knowledgeable of the approaches that the early gamers were using.

    That was about 15 years ago.

    Fast forward to the modern day and smart phones with dating apps, and the average man stands no chance. Maybe some naturals are still scoring but everybody else is still struggling, even if they are trying to use game.

    Even the folks at Roosh’s forum are documenting this.

    A big party of game is acting aloof and unavailable. Not really going to work with the immediate gratification offered by tinder.

    So I can’t blame Jason for not bothering.

    The best advice I can give is to for jason or anybody else to find and pursue their passion. If your going to devote time to learning how to score, you might as well get a return on investment by investing in yourself.

  178. Jason says:

    India where I was (Madras) was a closed culture. This was in 1997. Times I am sure have changed. What I did notice in India……most of the weddings were arranged. My co-worker Jaswinder was my age (27) and was married. It was an arranged marriage. They both admitted that the “first two years” were very, very difficult for them both……but they did both indeed “learn” to fall in love, and now (well at that time) would not have had it any other way. Last I spoke to him in 2016 by email……still married. Happy.

    Jaswinder said once over tea….you westerners all marry for “love” and his wife interjected politely “You mean lust Jas….” and you have divorce, broken hearts, children being raised in single woman households, massive STD’s, a court system that is a business for these matters……..and none of you ever entertain that your marriages are not about you. They are about Brahmin (The Real, or highest god in Hinduism / Vedric culture)

  179. earl says:

    #5 is especially new to me…not so much that I didn’t know it happens but I’m not sure if anyone in the American part of the sphere ever pointed this out.

    Usually we talk about cuckservatives, DODOs, and trad-cons…how about we ask Joe just how much his house/family was controlled by the mother?

  180. Oscar says:

    Tom,

    Those are hilarious! Reminds me of this.

  181. They Call Me Tom says:

    On Polish women… if they were actively recruiting men to go to Poland and become husbands… I’d be tempted. I remember the Polish card dealers being attractive at a casino way back when. They were on a work visa and practicing English.

    If I could find a good woman who was beautiful for her honeymoon, made herself available when I was interested and didn’t go full walrus the rest of the way… I’d let the husband goggles take care of the rest. So long as she was in a societal context that disincentivised divorce and looked down on wives who punished with their presence.

  182. Jason says:

    chemist. Thanks.

  183. earl says:

    The only Polish woman I can recall knowing had become so Americanized that it didn’t matter what she looked like. I don’t know if they usually have manjaws but this one did.

    What was quite funny was though for all her perceived strength and independence…she had to come running to me to kill spiders.

  184. earl says:

    Just curious…what about Polish men in particular would make them beta?

    That’s like saying because I’m mostly German I’m ambitious and misunderstood.

  185. Anon says:

    Jason,

    So being a beta now is incurable…..if you are Polish. What a crock.

    Then learn Game and prove otherwise. That is your only choice.

  186. They Call Me Tom says:

    Thanks for the video and the chuckles Oscar. I can’t believe I hadn’t come across that one before.

  187. Jason says:

    My Great Aunt Ida who had a small farm……in the 1970’s here she was then in her sixties under a tarctor changing the oil with my father. Speaking Polish and yelling at my dad “squawking” is more like it….and she was a tough lady. Lost her husband in the war…cvame to America and rebuilt a life the best she could but I didn’t see any feminine qualities of her covered with oil, grease and her yelling at her nephew (my dad) in Polish the way she was. Quite a lareg woman too. All my female cousins on the Polish side…..call their expanding deriere the “polish spread”

    I really don’t find this desireable

  188. Jason says:

    Anon. LOL!

  189. Oscar says:

    I’ve been to Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovenia, and Croatia, and there are many Eastern Europeans in Germany, so I met people from all over Eastern Europe when I was stationed there.

    I confirm that Polish women are, in fact, very pretty. Not as much as some other Eastern European women (Hungarian, and Ukrainian, for example), but that’s like arguing over which Ferrari is the better sports car. Oh, and Polish food rocks. Especially pierogi.

  190. Jason says:

    No account for taste Oscar, on food that is

  191. Oscar says:

    If you don’t like pierogi, there’s something seriously wrong with you.

  192. Jason says:

    No Osacr there isn’t. I grew up pierogis, and everything else Polish food-wise growing up made by Polish women who were housewives visiting the Polish side of the family pretty much every weekend from birth til college….and the occasional visit after. Even last summer I dropped in to my godmothers home after my hike.

    Never liked it. Any of it. Did I eat it? Yeah, I knew better because my father and my mother would have given a thwock on the head for such insulance, and rudeness as a boy, teenager, and even as a young man.

    Every Christmas Eve the traditional meal at some relatives home. The fish with a trillion bones in it. Cabbabge everything……..stuffed with some seasoned meat that would have been better made into something else…..

    At Polish Festivals growing up. My mother not liking it either, but always a supportive and brave face to man the and people she married into. She even took polka lessons before one such festival.

    I have a very ethnic Polish last name that is pronounced in now way how it is spelled. That is visible Polish I have until death. I’m not hatin’ on my people…..I’m telling you the truth. I admire their tenacity. Their thrift. Their intense work ethic. I like Chopin…..but am I exceptionally Proud of the Polish people in general? What is really to be proud of? Saw firsthand every stereotype and trait lived out on my dads’ side and they were FROM there. Not American-Polish….but Polish from Poland.

  193. Jason says:

    And speaking of Beta-Polish men…….who is standing up to the EU? It’s Polish leaders in Poland. How beta of them

  194. Opus says:

    I can remember a time (which to me does not seem so long ago) when to acquire some form of Visa to enable a Polish woman to leave Poland and come to England to be with her husband (I may now have some of the details wrong) we persuaded the British Court in question to festoon the document with pink tape sealing wax because we were led to believe that your average everyday stapled British court document would not to the Polish look genuine and would thus be rejected. The woman came here and seeing the shops was desperate to buy everything she saw but her husband explained to me that he had to explain to her that it would all still be there tomorrow and the day after. Nowadays of course it is like that on E-Bay. Plus ce change.

  195. Anon says:

    Jason,

    And speaking of Beta-Polish men…….who is standing up to the EU? It’s Polish leaders in Poland. How beta of them

    You still have no concept of what is beta and what is alpha. These terms are about who is attractive to women.

    By your definition, cuckservative Republicans who rush into war to ‘liberate’ Muslim women from oppression are alphas.

    You are hell bent on not getting it.

  196. ray says:

    Paul — ‘Times might be fast approaching where “seven women will take hold of one man and say, “We will eat our own food and provide our own clothes; only let us be called by your name. Take away our disgrace!””’ (Isa 4:1)

    Inevitably. And this page is part of the way to that time.

    The rebellions described by this page are part of the rising of the Red Dragon, consisting of many elements, including communism/Marxism in both East and West . . . in the former, most obviously by Red China, NK and related polities whose typical national emblems are dominated by red. This is the final Beast System reaching apotheosis, culminating in the AC and compulsory globalism.

    ‘A woman rides the beast’ meaning not only a specific spiritual entity (the spirit of Babylon, Jezebel etc.) but the collectivized empowerment of females — which currently is led by America. Feminism is purely satanic.

    The time described by Isaiah is the Kingdom of the Father ruled by Christ. I’ll summarize sexual/family relations in the Kingdom by saying that He is not a feminist.

  197. Jason says:

    Now Anon….we’ll have enough of that. I never once ever believed that. Well, maybe once….I did vote for Bish I. in 1988………and I did support desert shield / desert storm. Was wrong there.

    Beta is what YOU decide at the moment from what I have seen by your comments over my time here.

    I don’t live my life personal life by Greek letters…….and I left college in 1993. Greeks offered nothing to a college experience. You had to build your own. Which I did.

    You don’t get me (like the working title to that Beatles song). I guess it is arrogant on my part for you to get it. I’ve played the game. I read tons of books. Watched videos, asked advice from supposed “amazing ladies men” and in the end, all you can change is you….and heck……looks are only skin deep, but ugly goes to the bone. Hard painful truths in life.

    I am striving at this point to just accept my hand I was dealt, and play it the best I can. It’s hard. It’s not easy.

    I know what I do have from my own hard work, and I won’t apologize for that nor do I have to give credit to a woman for any of my accomplishments……..

    It might be a cop-out on my part at this point, but “not really knowing what else to do” it’s sometimes best to just get on with life.

    Now, if there is a game and real race and we are judged by “how many we banged in Poland, the Urkaine or by the time were 25” well, I would loose. You would too. ELvis and Frank Sinatra, and countless gansta rappers have everyone beat here. Including Roosh.

    Thankfully we don’t have to worry about that.

  198. earl says:

    ‘These terms are about who is attractive to women.’

    Let’s be real…it’s about whether women are attracted to you sexually or finanically. It has nothing to do with the actual man…but some part of the man.

  199. paddy says:

    @Jason, not 100% sure what to tell you, but I will point out that clearly, your methods up to now haven’t resulted in what you want to happen, happening.

    So now you are faced with a choice: either continue on as you have been, and give up on ever meeting and being successful with women, or, determine whether you will make a radical change.

    Since you are 6’4 it is not height (which cannot be changed) that is keeping you back!

    There is a period, which some men get trapped in, where there is justifiable anger at women, and at authority figures in society, when we realize all the lies we’ve been told about women’s nature. I don’t know if you are there, about to get there, or past that point.

    However it is vitally important to get past this point, as this anger can poison all aspects of your life, and women are well attuned to this anger, as they have had to be thru the ages, being always weaker than men.

    I notice that you speak of dealing with women in pessimistic terms, as if it is a great annoyance to have to deal with a woman. To talk to an attractive woman in say, an elevator, who is smiling and friendly seems to cause you consternation, instead of having a fun, enjoyable moment. Am I right about this?

    I can’t/won’t force you to do anything, or demand anything from you, but I do ask you to consider what I have written… if you want to change, you should follow up on Dalrock’s offer. He has been uncannily accurate in the last number of years, and surely has stood up for the Christian faith. His guidance might well help you have a better life … TRY IT!

  200. Jason says:

    Paddy.

    Thank you.

    I have shared jokes with women in elevators. They snide at me, the same joke told by Roosh would have her stripping in the elevator……

    Whatever.

    Okay. Last time. If you all go back…and read the kind and thoughtful reply Darlock gave me. The whole thing…not your female-styled-henpecking of it…..

    He offered help, but honestly stated that there was probably little he could so…maybe some advice…he also suggested I move to a foreign country.

    Now. Drop it. It was a kind offer. It was genuine. I respect him. That’s it.

  201. earl says:

    I have shared jokes with women in elevators. They snide at me, the same joke told by Roosh would have her stripping in the elevator……

    Well Roosh and you do have something in common…women throwing drinks in the face.

  202. Jason says:

    How mature of him. throwing a chair too. I am sure he is being a real man there. He said something really nasty, drunk woman threw a drink on him…..and like the arrogant bully he is….he can’t take it, face it or hold his own….notice too he has to neg fellow men and other around him.

    That’s the game we are all told that is going to save Christendom.

  203. Jason says:

    FIles a police report on her too!!!! Wow! Did the woman “hurt” his feelings? He was in such danger from what I can see. Lol. What a putz.

    When a woman throws a drink on you, you face her. You call her out. You stand your ground. Saw it the bar I nightclub I worked in. Dude gets a drink thrown on him. He stands her down.

    Roosh throws things, negs fellow men, and files a police report.

    Who’s the bratty lil’ sister now?

    Earl. Thank you. You just made my week.

  204. earl says:

    It’s just a case of one of the scenerios that happens when men try to ‘game’ women…especially in bars.

    Seeing as you were a bartender you probably know it a lot better than I do. My limited experience saw guys like that were often hit or miss.

  205. Jason says:

    First Earl…..people are drunk, buzzed, high, tipsy….basically idiots. Alcohol does that to people. Men and women alike.

    At the nighclub, we were instructed to report that to security. It was unaacpetable behavior by a woman to throw a drink on a man (that was the usual scenario) now the nightclub I worked in was high-end. A 25-50 cover charge depending on the night. There was a dress code for several nights. Let me tell you. Having a drink thrown on you ruins an expensive oxford, tie and or sport coat / suit jaacket. I would be downright a mite angry. I wear expensive shirts and a good suit is an investment…..and the fruity drinks women drink today WILL stain and pretty much ruin it.

    Women were removed at the nightclub for this behavior.

    The guy has to leave too….sticky, stinking like a cosmo……..night ruined. game over.

    But everytime I witnessed this. The MAN in question stood her down.

    Roosh was not in a suit, nor in a shirt n tie and this club looked like a step above the places where there is a pole on the stage. Not excusing her behavior. Throwing a drink on a guy isn’t right

    His reaction is classic though and expecting of a guy like himself. A bully like him can dish it out, but can’t take it

  206. Luke says:

    Jason, you’re right. Roosh should have treated this tw*t who threw a drink on him the way a working-class man in a working-class bar traditionally would have responded to another man who did that to him. That is, he should have knocked her on her @ss, repeating it each time she got up if still threatening (even just verbally) or otherwise noncontrite. Oh, and he should have been able to do this with certainty of no bystander intervening on her behalf, or consequent legal trouble. THAT is what real equality would have meant.

    Not an okay outcome for you? Then, let’s return to the wisdom of the ages, where women were by default largely treated as more like older children, with fewer rights correctly seen as associated with being held less responsible for their actions.

  207. Scott says:

    Anon, I just your connect way up thread. Very kind. Thanks.

  208. Jason says:

    Well Luke, I will pull an Anon on this one “this isn’t the 1920’s or marriage 1.0 or traditional dating”

    The reality is, her behavior was unacceptable. I don’t care if he said something craa, rude or gross to her. His reaction to the situation is everything that of an emtional woman and behaving like a spolied lil boy who just didn’t get his way.

    The wisdom of the ages ain’t returning despite game, despite the (cough) no-fail techniques it claims to purport….and if it does fail……you are inheirently beta (as all Polish men are today) or somehow he didn’t neg her enough.

    In todays world in situations like this you have to face them down calmly, have the right words and be a man about it. Easier said than done I am sure. Like I said, I would be a mite angry too. I like my clothing, and I’ll be “doggone” if a woman dares ruin one of my shirts, or suitys because “she felt justified” by her childish actions.

    Filing a police report, and behaving like he did really makes him look foolish, even to my “beta” eyes. Something I am glad I never looked up to. Roosh that is.

    Losing his mind, throwing a chair over a woman? I thought they were “not” worth it? Thought that women craved real manhood, and men who “know what they want”

    Well, he is getting older……..and you know….looks mean nothing, but I am sure his are fading (they are) and maybe they count for more than nothing…….

    Guy like him in situations like this, and we don’t know the ones that were never caught on film. He’s a bunch of big talk and he let an “average” looking younger women debase him, and bring out the worst…and she wasn’t even his wife or girlfriend.

    Game on! 🙂

  209. Jason says:

    Also…..until just very recently. I was working class economically. A working class guy would stand her down and leave. Too much to lose. He belts her. He’s in jail. His job *will* fire him and then its two to four weeks from being on the street because rent cannot be paid.

    Working class guys are not allowed to f-up in matters like these. Not once. Not ever. They know better

  210. Scott says:

    Try again.

    “I just saw your comment”

  211. Oscar says:

    @ Jason

    Okay. Last time. If you all go back…and read the kind and thoughtful reply Darlock gave me. The whole thing…not your female-styled-henpecking of it…..

    That’s industrial strength projection right there.

    He offered help, but honestly stated that there was probably little he could so…maybe some advice…he also suggested I move to a foreign country.

    Now. Drop it. It was a kind offer. It was genuine. I respect him. That’s it.

    No, that’s not it. Your “female-styled-henpecking of it” – once again – left out the part where he offered to correspond with you privately, and you rejected the offer. Why do you keep leaving that part out?

  212. Spike says:

    It is this ”Courtly Love” mindset that us men are brought up to believe, and its’ failures to give us the first, bitter, taste of the Red Pill.
    The saddest part of this is the unfortunate fact that NO MAN will learn about the Red Pill in church. rather he will be told the saccharine lie of Courtly Love.
    In Church, you should expect to hear the truth about every subject. And bend yourself to it, ugly as it may be.

  213. Luke says:

    So, Jason, what consequences DO you see as ideal for that tw&t drink-tosser? (Moral people, like moral societies, prefer not to see crooks of any level get away with it, and I will presume until I know otherwise that you are also moral that way.)

    Oh, and re returning to the wisdom of the ages? Feminism is hardly a new invention. It is clearly a form or aspect of societal and personal decadence, historically dragging down those that indulge in it. Individual women who give in to it commonly end up childless or close to it, and alone or at least with men they see as less attractive than ones they earlier in life blew off or frivorced. (How the famous feminist Shulamith Firestone died, alone in an apartment, partially eaten by her cats, is archetypal.) Societies that go for it, get absorbed/overrun/replaced by countries that don’t make such a stupid, maladaptive decision. Then, with long peace and prosperity, those countries commonly also decay similarly, and the cycle continues. So, yes, the wisdom of the ages continues, and I expect it will until Jesus returns.

  214. Jason says:

    Look..Luke….there will be none. Wrong? Yes. Immature. Yes. Not nice, or lady-like. Totally.

    It comes to a point……and as a former addict I know this………………don’t put yourself in situations where you will get a drink thrown on you. His BS works in Poland, the Ukraine, the rest of Slavic Europe…South America, and still parts of Asia….but it doesn’t work in the west in urbane environments like Montreal (mon Dieu!), Toronto, DC, LA, or SF………

    Embarassing? Totally. The narrative is controlled now by the sisterhood. She could have just done it because she *hates* his views and they will all still rally around and justify it.

    Who knows? Maybe Roosh should find one of those amazing Polish girls he banged in Poland, marry her…raise a family and there would be no need to go put and have drinks thrown in his face…..expecting justice? Welcome to my world Roosh…..it’s stupid. It’s dumb. It’s unfair….but there is so much more than to “banging” across Europe.

    Oscar

    What advice could he have given me in private correspondance? And……how would know if I was or wasn’t speaking with him. I wouldn’t reveal a private convo with him to the likes of you…….or reveal anything I said in a private convo to any man in this forum that I had or would have.

    His advice to me would be the same. I would tire him out. He would end up banning me or worse. He has many more important things to tackle that my situational woes with the creature called woman 😉

  215. Luke says:

    Jason, I’ll try one more time. I did not ask you IF you thought that drink-tossing c*nt would have consequences, but WHAT (if anything) you thought appropriate consequences in an ideal world would be for her assault. What is wrong with her being forced on pain of immediate arrest otherwise to pay (her credit card would be fine) for dry-cleaning costs, then expulsion for a month or more from that bar, the patrons all hooting at her and insulting her weight and attire as she is frog-marched out the door?

  216. Jason says:

    Appropriate consequnece?????

    What a crock! Even expecting that?! Even back in the day, even in the early sixties….a man who had a drink thrown on him…..if it was justified or not…..had to “take it like a man” and just deal. A man who slapped a woman back over this…..even back then would have been cuffed up.

    Roosh was wearing a shirt you could find at target….hardly anything worth drycleaning or sending out……….arrest????? Luke…..the jails are filled. Even if the police did decide to arrest. She would be booked, and released a few hours later. They don’t have room for actual criminals anymore! They’re filled with deadbeat dads who “didn’t pay the child support” and Mexican kids for selling dimebags of marijuana. In Canada probably full of people who don’t like Trudeau

    As a hopeless “beta” (lol) I wouldn’t even want to “go to court over this”

    It’s called being a man, and just a drawback of being one in matters like this. I don’t think its right. In the end, his reaction mattered, and it was piss poor

  217. Luke says:

    Jason, you’re clearly still purple pill at best. Take women off the pedestal you have them on above you in your mind — they DON’T merit it, not most of them, not anymore. Either they’re full adults, as often as practical held FULLY responsible for their actions and decisions as a man would be, OR they’re something less (like older children, or early-Alzheimer patients), with reduced rights and responsibilities. (Yeah, women getting to vote and frivorce have to go bye-bye, if we want to keep a country.)

    A or B?

  218. rdchemist says:

    Jason,
    A woman throwing a drink on a man is actually assault at worst, or at least disorderly conduct.

    Now it’s pretty well documented that the justice system is lighter when it comes to women, but involving the authorities would be an appropriate response.

    Let the police and the courts decide. It’s what they’re there for.

  219. Jason says:

    I don’t have them on a pedestal. I of all people here don’t. I don’t put up with their antics. I tell them stuff they don’t like hearing when they ask me “my opinion” and I don’t chase them nor excuse their behavior and poor choices, and never hold them responsible. Roosh is a part of that problem. Women fully hate this, and thus tried to kill me by denying any sort of intimate contact, dates, flirting or anything with them. I was and have been continually punished for my “bad behavior” to women over the deacades for my “bad attitude” shaming for my looks….and as I get older…..more and more men are doing the shaming if truth be told.

    Funny thing is. I didn’t die. I didn’t go away. I’m still here.

    I live in the very real world, in California. Neither scenario you propose will happen unless there is a full reset…nuclear war, economic meltdown that has no bailout in sight, massive pandemic, or some supernatural transfigurational thing…..return of Christ……a wormhole opening in the soloar system and ID4 happens.

    Expecting women to held to same standards as men will never happen in the current setup we have.

  220. Dale says:

    @Hank Flanders

    You were looking for me… 🙂 Give an e-mail if you want to talk.

    See the list I gave in my comment:
    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2016/08/04/feminist-atlantic-waxes-conservative/#comment-215823

    That comment still seems right to me. I had to compromise on bride age, simply because I waited so long. And partly because, in my experience, women who are seeing you on paper are FAR more willing to dismiss you without even meeting you merely because of his age, than women who are meeting you in real life.
    So either go when you are under 40, or try to find an event/place where you can meet women in person. (When I was 42, but met women in person, I had one woman who was 23/24 and another 24/25 who were interested. They told me their ages, but I no longer exactly remember.)

    Yes, I will be going back in a couple months… to be with my wife 🙂

    BTW, Jason’s comment “but I like hot water” is absolutely correct. Be prepared to temporarily live in less luxurious conditions for the chance at the long-term benefit of a good wife. Up to you to decide if that is a reasonable trade. (Out houses…. seriously… Even some restaurants do not have toilets, just (ceramic-formed) holes in the floor. And you might get charged $.50 for the privilege of using the toilet. Oh, did you expect toilet paper to be included for that price? Seriously, you need to bring Kleenex or toilet paper with you when you go out.)
    Also, be prepared to take an honest look at Orthodoxy, if you have not already. It is questionable to say most Orthodox are actual Christians, same as for Catholics or Protestants (Matt 7:21-23). The Orthodox have theological errors, same as any other group that claims Christianity, but at least their errors do not seek to tear down the family unit. My wife and I agree that the Bible is our authority, not the X or Y church, and she accepts that as leader I choose the church, so this “problem” is largely not. This has not been much of a stretch for her so far, as I am more comfortable with bringing her to an Orthodox church; the Protestant churches tend to embarrass me with their open disobedience and wrong focus.

    I suggest you give more consideration to England than Jason suggests however. I was there for 1 day. Far more femininity on display than in Canada. And if the women are not rebellious, hateful, and disrespectful toward men with their appearance, maybe they are less so in other ways. Maybe ask Opus for an opinion; I am not in a position to say much more than the above.
    Oh, and they all speak English, thus no need to learn another language, or to be able to type well (for Google translate). My wife and I used Google translate quite a bit in the initial month, so she could say the important/complicated stuff. But translators are cheap; it’s not even close to an insurmountable obstacle. And once you have selected a bride, send her $35 US per week so she can learn English full time. The $35 a week is more than she would earn at a full time job. This is not a financial problem.

    Jason (sacrastically?) asks, Who in this room, moved to Vietnam, or Slovokia, or Croatia learned the language, got work, vetted women, dated women… crickets.
    Not crickets. I did. I speak Russian*, received very good help from a friend who introduced me to a friend she vouched for, and I married. My wife has very good character; I thank God for that (almost) every single day. She actually is grateful for my character, and thanks God that we are together; this is rather different than my Canadian experiences.
    I do not expect to live there however, at least not while I am trying to work. The wages there in a smaller centre are… about 3% of what I make here.

    *I speak well enough that my wife understands me and can talk to me. Other people claim I am hard to understand.

    Opus said, [anyone] who feels the need to go abroad for a spouse is advertising that he does not have what it takes and had been aiming out of his league.
    This is absolutely correct. I was inadequate to get a decent wife in my own country, since there were zero women in my own churches who did not show at least two visible signs of disobedience to God. And I was too stupid to figure out how to marry one of those zero women. No matter how I divided and subtracted, I just could not get the math to work.
    Opus, your opinion only makes sense only if you ignore the Scriptures, disrespect any man who takes Scriptural requirements seriously, are ignorance of what those Scriptural requirements are and thus do not see the obvious problems, or you come from a group where at least a few obedient women actually exist.
    I do not go to your church, so I can’t give an opinion on where you are in that list.

  221. Jason says:

    I don’t have them on a pedestal. I of all people here don’t. I don’t put up with their antics. I tell them stuff they don’t like hearing when they ask me “my opinion” and I don’t chase them nor excuse their bad behavior and poor choices, and I hold them responsible. Roosh is a part of that problem. He never does. He enables all these terrible things and mess we have today.

    Women fully hate this about me, and thus tried to kill me by denying any sort of intimate contact including dates, flirting or anything with them. I was and have been continually punished for my “bad behavior” to women over the deacades for my “bad attitude” being shaming for my looks….and as I get older…..more and more men are doing the shaming if truth be told.

    Funny thing is. I didn’t die. I didn’t go away. I’m still here. In fact, better than I was than when I was listening to the Rooshes of this world.

    I live in the very real world, in California. Neither scenario you propose will happen unless there is a full reset…nuclear war, economic meltdown that has no bailout in sight, massive pandemic, or some supernatural transfigurational thing…..return of Christ……a wormhole opening in the soloar system and ID4 happens.

    Expecting women to held to same standards as men will never happen in the current setup we have.

    It’s not A or B and it never was. The Bible has plenty of situations like this

  222. Dale says:

    @Hank

    … and my the way, my wife chooses to be wonderful. I am VERY aware that she is choosing to be superior to every woman at my prior English, protestant churches.
    I told her she would be the most beautiful woman in any Canadian building she enters… because she chooses to be obedient to Scripture (Deut 22, 1 Cor 11, etc.). And I am not wrong.
    Her actions that show her obedience to Scripture make her a wonderful wife.
    Our only complaint is that we took so long to find each other. Go. Go now. Not in another 5 years.

  223. Jason says:

    Dale very happy and pleased for you. That is quite an accomplishment. I’m speechless.

  224. Oscar says:

    Jason,

    What advice could he have given me in private correspondance?

    I don’t know and neither do you, because you refused to try and find out.

    I answered your question, now answer mine. Why do you keep leaving out the part where Dalrock offered to correspond with you privately and you refused?

  225. Jason says:

    because there is nothing he could have said really. He himself in his reply stated that he “really didn’t know what to say” and claimed himself he was no expert on game.

    Myabe you would like private correspondance with him. Annoyed that he didn’t offer you that?

    It was a kind gesture. He has much more important things to handle and deal with than a nobody pushing fifty who never had a date

  226. Oscar says:

    @ Jason

    None of that answers the question. That was a dishonest answer to the question “why did you reject the offer”, but that’s not the question I asked.

    The question I asked is; why do you keep leaving that part our when you complain that no one gives you any good advice? Answer that question.

  227. Jason says:

    I’ve never left it out. It’s common knowlege here that he offered. I have never denied that. When asked. I have replied that I refused. That’s not leaving it out.

    Okay…..I’ll humor you.

    Let’s say I did take his kind offer. Okay. Private correspondance starts. He decides or suggests something I should do. I disagree with him. He then is hurt or annoyed I didn’t take his advice. Let’s say I do take a serious suggestion and it doesn’t work. I am annoyed at him.

    It is best that he stay as man who runs a decent forum. He can be a judge so to speak. He can monitor the vibe and situation here….and what if we became good friends (really, really doubtful there…that’s a reach) his opinion then is slanted to something I might stand on or say….and thus his impartiality is jeopardized.

    I was flattered, and touched. It’s best for him and I that I did not. Now, is he personally corresponding with other here, or you?

    None of my business if he is or isn’t.

  228. Jason says:

    The good advice I got here has always been: learn game. I tried that…you didn’t try hard enough….and now that I am part Polish it is pre-destined that it would not work anyway. Case closed.

    Move to Eastern Europe.

    No.

    If that is the great advice I am offered, well….make sure you tell your sons that when they cannot find a Christian wife.

  229. Sharkly says:

    I had a different take on the Roosh video above. It looks like some women who were aware of who he is, attacked him, and they were mad about things they believe Roosh believes. Roosh flipping everybody off wasn’t entirely Alpha, but considering he had been assaulted for his beliefs, and just had his night and clothes ruined, I gotta give him a little room to be angry and loose his cool for a moment. I also noticed how the one lady dumped her drink on Roosh’s head, and then walked away. Clearly she felt like she could, and that she would not be gotten the better of. That is learned entitlement. If she had expected Roosh to be allowed to fight back, she either would not have thrown her drink, or might have thrown it and then ran like hell towards safety or protection. Oddly enough some woman screams “Eat my cunt” at Roosh at the end of the video. I am glad that I stay far away from the whole nightclub/bar/drinking scene. Even though I don’t know any of the people in that video, I know there is no wife material hanging out amongst them. At least none that I would recommend to anybody.

  230. Oscar says:

    @ Jason

    I’ve never left it out.

    That’s a lie. You left it out twice in this thread alone. Multiple times in previous threads. Why?

  231. Anon says:

    The good advice I got here has always been: learn game. I tried that…you didn’t try hard enough….and now that I am part Polish it is pre-destined that it would not work anyway. Case closed.

    Pretty much. It is not impossible for a Polish man to learn Game, but he is starting from an unusual disadvantage relative to other men.

    “Why is it always Polish women with foreign men, never the other way around?”

  232. Hank Flanders says:

    Anon

    OR,

    Produce a male heir.

    LOL…that’s a good idea.

  233. Luke says:

    So, Jason thinks women deserve fried ice (full rights without full responsibilities for their actions and decisions).

    Well, I disagree. So likely would the bulk of the male posters here.

    Some women also would disagree with you on this. I give you the example of Judgybitch, of http://www.judgybitch.com, whom I like a lot, and respect a fair amount. The motto of her website is “The radical notion that women are adults”.

  234. Hank Flanders says:

    Opus

    There seems to be the impression given on this thread that should an American go wife hunting (female theft I call it) in England

    You seem to have seriously misread my and Jason’s remarks about the UK.

    I tend to take the view that any American (or Briton) who feels the need to go abroad for a spouse is advertising that he does not have what it takes and had been aiming out of his league…

    I’ll gladly accept that designation. Apparently, my league in the US is significantly overweight women who often have kids and / or tattoos.

  235. Boxer says:

    Oddly enough some woman screams “Eat my cunt” at Roosh at the end of the video.

    Typical Canadian wimminz

  236. Hank Flanders says:

    Jason

    Move to Eastern Europe.

    No.

    Visit Eastern Europe.

    Also, no, right?

  237. Sharkly says:

    Jason says: Women fully hate this, and thus tried to kill me by denying any sort of intimate contact, dates, flirting or anything with them. I was and have been continually punished for my “bad behavior” to women over the decades for my “bad attitude” shaming for my looks….and as I get older…..more and more men are doing the shaming if truth be told.

    Jason, even you have got to know you’re going to far in blaming there.
    Women in general did not intend to kill you. While there might be a few who wish you dead, they are wrong for that. And the men that are shaming you(inadvertently mostly I suspect) don’t intend to kill you either. It is fun to play the victim. Me against the world. They want me dead, but I will survive! However, although you are persecuted, nobody that I am aware of is trying to kill you. The only person whom I can recall you relating that has tried to kill you, is yourself. However, suicide is a selfish act, and so is blaming it on others. I don’t doubt that things are tough, and have been tough on you. But you must look to God for your answers to some of this stuff. If you ask on a men’s forum for help with women, people will try to give you advice. If you even just bitch about your trouble scoring dates, people will try to help you by offering advice. If you don’t want the advice, please specify. Clearly state that you are only venting your emotions, and that you don’t want some man to try to fix your problems, but that you just want to feel some understanding and sympathy. Otherwise somebody is going to try to help. And since this is the internet, we can’t hug you and sing Kumbaya. Offering advice, or praying for you, is about the best we can do for you.
    People are trying to help you Jason, because they care for you.
    The fact that you stayed morally pure during all of the years of drinking and drug addiction, in the most debauched corner of the country, is a real miracle of divine providence all by itself. God has obviously tended your virginity closely. You should not be in such a hurry to give that up. It is something you have that almost nobody else has. It is quite special.

    Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

    Your virginity, and your lack of defilement with women is precious to God. Why not keep yourself a holy firstfruit for God? You follow Him, like it says above. And you find the “guile” that is inherent in “game” to be repulsive to you, and so you don’t like to utter it. Why not remain without fault, and just prepare yourself to accept the role that God, who made you in His own image and glory, has prepared you for? God did not make you ugly.(to those who can perceive it) God made you a glorious undefiled firstfruit unto Himself. You need to get a grip on that, and at least proverbially, start singing a new song. Change your tune! Give God the glory for your life. Don’t look for others to give the blame to. Your life is a story of struggle until triumph and overcoming of evil with good. Give God Glory!

  238. Hank Flanders says:

    Dale, congratulations on your marriage! Did you marry her in her home country? As before, thanks for that trove of information. I still do return to that thread from two years ago quite frequently and reread all you wrote there.

    Yeah, I’ve heard that about the bathroom situation, and I do think the trade-off is worth it, but thanks for the warning.

    Thanks, too, for the advice about going there now. In fact, I’ve applied for my passport and am trying to do research to be able to go very soon. You’re going in a couple of months, huh?…I’d love to talk with you some more. My email address is hankflanders25@mail.com. Thanks again!

  239. Dale says:

    Thanks Jason 🙂 I appreciate the encouragement for our marriage.

  240. Dale says:

    Hank Flanders, thanks to you also for the congratulations. I’ll send you an e-mail.

  241. Opus says:

    @dale

    There is an old saying that one should cut ones coat according to the available cloth which is another way of saying that one should not raise the bar too high. As I suggested: if one is not prepared to lower the bar then celibacy is perhaps the better option for the problems of mixed marriages – of whatever mix – are not something one would be wise to seek. I don’t expect particularly high standards from women but then I have never observed that I was the sort of man women saw as husband material – or at least if there were such women I certainly did not want them or observe their interest in me.

    I suspect that being Christian has a tendency not merely to make men tooooooo nice but also a tendency to judge Christian women according to a higher standard than they can realistically in America now achieve and I further suspect that the emphasis on Game (and for me the Jury is out as to its efficacy) is a method to defeat that tendency to Christian niceness. Maybe Jason who seems capable of upsetting any female should try anti-Game?

    There are a number of older men around here who have acquired a Thai-bride, the bride herself often of uncertain age. I knew a chap – in his mid-twenties yet fairly unprepossessing and poorly paid – who had married a very good looking and svelte Thai hardly holder than himself. We sniggered behind his back – because no way could he have achieved that level of cute competing against his peer-group – yet at the same time we envied the fact that at least for a few years he would be sleeping with a hot chick. He clearly loved her or at least was keen to mate-guard. I might also observe that if they reproduce their children will be very odd looking and that is in my view entirely unfair to any future off-spring.

  242. Paul says:

    @Hank: “and unless I produce a male heir, my nephew may be entrusted with carrying on the “Flanders” name.”

    Don’t worry, you’re already covered

  243. info says:

    Every person is made as beautiful as God wants them to be. We play the hand we are dealt to glory of God.

    Its not every man’s destiny to have a wife and children. Some are destined for a single life. Man is complete with God with or without his wife

  244. Bee says:

    Dale,

    Congratulations on your marriage and your bride. Many blessings to both of you.

  245. Jason says:

    Anon, read the article. Fifty hits or so…..and the comments mostly don’t know why, even most of the Polish women didn’t seem to have an answer for this.

    Info: some are more beautiful than others and it aint cool if you’re on the losing team in these matters. It isn’t.

    Ask the 80% in that 80 / 20 thing

  246. Jason says:

    Roosh got what was coming to him. If she was a perfect ten…….there may have been some comeuppance on his part. You know…it was a hot girl

    No. This was a straightup average looking one…but in his book, and bragging if he nailed her “oh she was a nine”
    No cocky funny comebacks. No negging. No talking to her like a bratty lil’ sister. No, just a foul mouthered average looking woman whose mouth had a resemblance to a large mouthed bass emabarassing the snot outta him, bringing his overinflated ego down a notch or two. He gets a drink dumpoed on him and his reaction is to

    Go off on the other MEN around him, throw a chair, and storm away. Not even a high end night club. Some bar in Montreal.

    Then “files a police report on her”

    “Yes Officer, she was the girl with the long hair on St Catherine Street. She was drunk. She had brown eyes, and was slender. Arrest her please.”

    Gimme a break

  247. Jason says:

    Compare this with Jordon Peterson around a very vocal and violet bunch of women during a protest. Guy kept his cool. He kept his beliefs, and he kept his poise exceptionally well.

    I’ll take that attitude and enjoy his lectures over books called “Bang Poland” any day of the week.

  248. Jason says:

    Hank…

    No. I don’t want to visit. I asked my father a few years back “Hey old man, why don’t you go back to Poland….see the old homestead around Krakow……it’s different today. Has been for quite sometime.”

    His reply. “To see what? That was something we all left behind. The past is better left undisturbed. It wasn’t a happy time when the family left. I would not want to relive that. If you go, that’s fine but I really wouldn’t want to hear about it. What’s there to see? The memorials to the war? The death camps that are now museums? The communist block buildings from the 1950’s and 1960’s?”

    Interestingly, all his brothers and sisters feel the same way. All of them have the financial means to travel there as well.

    It was something they all left and turned their backs on. I have met Vietnamese who fled in 1975 who have the same opinion about returning to visit Vietnam.

    It just never struck me as a place to visit.

  249. Hank Flanders says:

    Jason, I can’t blame your father for not wanting to go back there, but as far as I know, he’s not looking to get married, and I wasn’t really referring to Poland, anyway, as I think it’s actually considered part of Central Europe and not Eastern Europe. I was thinking more about the Former Soviet Union countries, but there are a lot of other countries in Europe to visit that are supposedly nice besides those, too. I think of all places in Europe, I would want to visit England the least, although from reading above, Dale says not to discount it. I do think it would be cool to visit Scotland and Ireland, though just for the history and countryside of those and to see Loch Ness. My brother says I should visit Belgium, because he liked it a lot when he visited there several years ago, but I can’t do it all at once or maybe ever. In any case, are you hoping to get married, or are you pretty much just MGTOW at this point? (serious question)

  250. Paul says:

    @Hank

    If you want to visit Europe for sightseeing and culture, I would visit some cities like Paris and Rome (including the Vatican) (and maybe Prague) and some of the larger museums (Louvre, Vatican museum), as well as some cathedrals and castles. As for nature; the Alps are quite majestic, you could visit southern Germany (Bavaria) or Austria to get some real fairy-tale views, nice food, and not too expensive stays.

  251. It’s a desire that is subsiding. I am 48. If I did marry there is no way I would be able to attract “game” and hold a woman in her twenties…unless you know I was exceptional in the looks and money side of things.

    I am still willing to be a step dad. You know, the woman is in her early forties end of her thirties…kid is in high school…..she is born again and truly repentant.

    The biggest strike at this point is: I have never dated. Had a gf. Kissed a girl. At my age…..starting from square ZERO is really almost hopeless at this point……I mean, a lot of guys marry later……but they have had dating experience, girlfriends, sex…….kids from the previous wife or girlfriend, in my situation we’re dealing with an area that is really unique……and to defend women here for just a moment…….the nice Christian woman, the one who who is indeed set apart:

    It would take an extreme amount of patience as well on her part……and something I could not blame her for wanting to undertake at this point. I can relate and understand that and her situation. What woman would sign up for that? Yes, some would, but the reality is very few.

    So……probably not marrying. I know, I know….you “never” know…..but using old fashioned stats at this point. The odds are very unfavorable for me. Remember…I am not twenty-five, or even forty anymore. Fifty very close on the horizon.

    The hardest part is “what I missed out on” children…..and then to be shamed in church about how I’m not a real man because I am not a dad……or I can’t relate…or just the general cultural attitude in ALL stripes of Christianity (something is very wrong with you as a man if you have not thrown a football like Eli Manning, have not been endeared by a trillion women…all perfect tens, and have not married…you’re gay, closeted gay or a loser)

    The sexual dreams drive me crazy sometimes…….and it’s a fight to keep myself pure….but sometimes wonder…what for? Plenty of men have had premartial sex…no bots of lightening struck them down…in fact many married a nice Christian woman.

    It’s concepts like these I just cannot wrap my mind around.

    As for travel. I’m half British, I love the culture…..want to see it. Going over to shop for records and threads. Visit my relatives there.

    Future travel? In the USA only. I want to camp and hike Yellowstone, Glacier, hike and camp more back in the Adirondacks and so many areas I would like to hike and camp in here in California….

  252. Hank Flanders says:

    Thanks, Paul, yeah, it would definitely be cool to do some of that at some point, especially see the Alps.

  253. Cane Caldo says:

    @thedeti

    I seem to remember Cane Caldo saying something like this.

    Thanks! You’re probably thinking of this post:

    This Weekend on What’s the Real Tradition?

  254. Gunner Q says:

    “Plenty of men have had premartial sex…no bots of lightening struck them down…in fact many married a nice Christian woman.”

    A bolt of lightning would have been kinder.

  255. earl says:

    ‘Plenty of men have had premartial sex…no bots of lightening struck them down…in fact many married a nice Christian woman.’

    Yeah read Psalm 72-73…David had the same lamentations about wicked men being prosperous while the righteous suffered. It’s foolish thinking to think wicked men are going to stay cozy forever.

  256. Hank Flanders says:

    seventiesjason (You keep changing your name! 🙂 )

    The biggest strike at this point is: I have never dated. Had a gf. Kissed a girl. At my age…..starting from square ZERO is really almost hopeless at this point……I mean, a lot of guys marry later……but they have had dating experience, girlfriends, sex…….kids from the previous wife or girlfriend, in my situation we’re dealing with an area that is really unique……and to defend women here for just a moment…….the nice Christian woman, the one who who is indeed set apart:

    It would take an extreme amount of patience as well on her part……and something I could not blame her for wanting to undertake at this point. I can relate and understand that and her situation. What woman would sign up for that? Yes, some would, but the reality is very few.

    My background is similar to yours, so I can sympathize to a degree. I’ve basically just drifted along alone for so many years that it’s hard to believe it could even be any other way. However, I still believe God can provide even when things look bleak.

    Since you’re open to a woman with kids, I think this opens up a lot more possibilities. You can think of this as a rhetorical question, as it could aimed at any single guy, but have you ever considered that maybe you’re the person God wants to use to bless someone else who might even currently be half a world away? I seriously doubt the woman in the video at 1:12, 8:15, 16:46, and 29:27 would have much cared about a man’s lack of sexual or relational experience. Her priorities were elsewhere, as she had a kid to think about. By the way, the video isn’t pleasant to watch, so you might not want to watch it all.

  257. Hank Flanders says:

    @Paul – August 20, 2018 at 2:34 am

    Lol, yeah, cousin Ned may have to carry on the family line alone.

  258. Pingback: A challenge to traditionalists. | Dalrock

  259. Yeah…hank……but no.

    Not a half a world away. My uncle (dad’s brother) married a woman from Thailand in 1970 while he as stationed there with the USAF. Now, they are still still married. I suppose it worked out to be an okay marriage.

    However. Three years after they were married, and my cousin was born……she confesses to my uncle, her husband that she has “three children” in Thailand. My uncle was caught off guard, and what did he do?

    He ended up paying for, and having all three come over here. He adopted all three of them. Forgave the wife. My uncle has confessed……the language barrier was really hard in the early years. Had had herculean patience with her……and to her credit…..she never left him either.

    If I have heard any complaints from him, it’s always “For fifty almost fifty years, I have been sending money back to Thailand every month to care for her relatives, family, cousins…..and we did without here so her family could have some provision…..and it was never enough. After all these decades, still not ever a thank you from anyone over there. I’m 77 and I am still working part-time to provide this. It is out of the question that I stop. Have tried. Call me whipped……but any other man in my situation can talk tough but would have done the same thing.”

    My aunt also has a gambling problem. They almost lost their home not once, not twice but three times.

    Witnessing that was a huge turn off from me “going overseas” and meeting a “nice feminine woman”

    My Uncle Thomas from Wales married a woman from British Honduras……same thing. However, he put his foot down….she left and took half.

    My Aunt from Thailand is okay…great cook…..and I am not being overtly picky for wanting a wife who speaks english.

  260. Badman says:

    @Jason

    You’re not alone in your experiences. You’ve already heard from Hank, Dale, and other men in similar situations. I can certainly relate: I’m from the same part of the country, tall, friendly, and half-Polish to boot. And for the last decade, I have prayed about and been intentional about finding a wife, but never do much as kissed a woman during that time.

    “Game” does seem to be one of the only tools that can help a single man in this bizarre time, but it’s certainly not foolproof and takes a lot of work. And the “game” we’re referring to isn’t pick-up artistry or cheap one-liners from Roosh – it’s about improving yourself through lifting, acting confidently, and being both strong and playful when dealing with women. After a lifetime of “beta” upbringing, game doesn’t come easily to me, but since I became aware of it I have noticed improvement in my interactions with women. Again though, it’s not a silver bullet – rejection still happens frequently.

    Also, I would strongly caution you about entering marriage in your current situation, especially with a single mom. Your current mindset would likely make you easy prey for an alpha widow or single mom looking for commitment and resources from a reliable man. And as we’ve heard from countless men here and elsewhere, that type of marriage is very high risk for emotional manipulation, a dead bedroom, cheating, and frivorce.

    As a fellow single celibate man, I would assert that a life of singleness is far preferable to the chaos and anxieties from a marriage like that. See also 1 Corinthians 7:32.

  261. feeriker says:

    Churchgoing men who take their religion seriously need to be very particular what pond they go fishing in for a wife. The average bar is probably not the best place.

    Sadly, the average church isn’t any better.

  262. feministhater says:

    Sadly, the average church isn’t any better.

    It’s the bar on Saturday night and the Church on Sunday morning.

  263. Hank…..yeah that video was frightening. I went to a “singles party” back at the end of 2000.

    It was a ‘green card’ party. All Phillipina, Thai and Chinese girls “looking for nice man to marry” and ALL the dudes except for me and three other guys…one was my PUA “sarge” what a creep…..he was the one who brought our group to this…..were under or around 30. No woman could speak english was on some sort of student visa.

    Every other man there was well over 50+ it was very icky and creepy is what it was. One of the men I was with told our “dating coach” or “sarge” that he had some nerve…..he laughed and said “hey, I’m helping you and this is all you guys can get”

  264. Boxer says:

    Dear Hank:

    You can think of this as a rhetorical question, as it could aimed at any single guy, but have you ever considered that maybe you’re the person God wants to use to bless someone else who might even currently be half a world away?

    You brothers should be extra careful when migrating abroad in search of a woman. This might happen…

    https://v5k2c2.com/2018/07/17/the-superiority-of-russian-women/

    Best,

    Boxer

  265. BillyS says:

    You have definitely gotten more advice here than the 2 you note Jason. You are the one overly focused on “game” rather than others.

    You may have women avoiding you like the plague if you act in real life anything like you act here. You almost seem like a sock puppet.

  266. honeycomb says:

    Churchgoing men who take their religion seriously need to be very particular what pond they go fishing in for a wife. The average bar is probably not the best place.

    I present to you Earl Pitts .. Pitts Off!

  267. You would think that Billy S 😉

  268. Hank Flanders says:

    Boxer – August 20, 2018 at 2:14 pm

    Yeah, it could, but we take risks no matter what we do, don’t we? Even if I do nothing but stay right where I am, I run the risk of being alone for the rest of my life, possibly leading to a lower quality of life overall and possibly even early death from the depression. There’s simply no physical way to live a risk-free life.

  269. honeycomb says:

    Hank F sez..
    Even if I do nothing but stay right where I am, I run the risk of being alone for the rest of my life, possibly leading to a lower quality of life overall and possibly even early death from the depression.

    Or .. you could live the best longest life possible .. full of passion with a higher quality life and success by living single .. hmmmmm

    Prove me wrong .. (friendly wager).

  270. Rick says:

    I was stuck in depression about being alone for about five years. I thought that God ” had the perfect one for set aside for me.” But when that never came to fruition year after year and going on dates where I always felt like I was going to have to settle, the whole thing began to damage my faith severely. By God’s grace, I finally realized I was content with being single and the whole marriage scheme crashed down around me. Now I don’t want to get married and all the bs that came along with that desire is gone. I’ve never felt more free and happy in all my life these last 10 years. I’m free from caring what women want, what society says I should look like or own… Man, it’s amazing. If you find the “unicorn”, congrats. Otherwise, stay single and don’t settle because you want to get your noodle wet or feel pressured to conform to society’s shame. Live your life brother. There is no marriage in heaven.

  271. Hank Flanders says:

    honeycomb, that’s easy enough. If I thought my quality of life were at its peak as a single man, I wouldn’t hope for something better.

  272. Well….I heard something once about it doesn’t matter if it’s “a black or white cat……is it catching the mice?”

    I do know for a fact……..if don’t meet someone soon……pretty much will be the “forced hand” of singledom.

    I just don’t have what it takes at my age to save the money, dealing with LEGAL immigration, meeting, getting to know, dating…traveling back n fourth to Russia, or Vietnam, or China or whatever….teaching her English…cultural stuff……and the special things…

    What kind of woman would I like? Yes a practicing Christian. Sure I would have to find her attractive of sorts……and……she would have to like something I do…….not everything….but something. Listening to music? Hiking? Reading? Long walks? Is she the type of gal who would be able to rock a pair of doc martens?

    We would need something to do together…..a hobby of sorts.

    That’s the real clincher. Both my parents loved to read aloud to each other. Both liked camping….but my dad had a few things he did….and mom had hers

  273. Hank Flanders says:

    Rick, my comment at August 20, 2018 at 4:57 pm had bad editing on my part. I meant to say “from the depression that could come from being alone for so long.” That is to say that I’m not currently depressed, but I still don’t want to keep staying in this situation if I can find a way to change it.

  274. BillyS says:

    Rick,

    The toughest part for me has been figuring out how to connect with other single men who have compatible interests. I haven’t been able to find any yet, unfortunately.

    I am probably blessed because I am not attractive enough on dating sites. I don’t have a pile of money and will likely be working the rest of my life, I don’t want to travel the world soon and I don’t want to spend all spare time outdoors. Good that I don’t match much because I would not want to get another unfaithful woman.

  275. Luke says:

    Taking Jason’s side to some extent here, he’s actually correct in a fundamental and major way on all women turning him down “killing him”. If a man who understands how much meaning having children has, feels called to it, and cannot get it, it is literally death to meaning in life. That lack, for such men (and I felt that call, too) easily eventually destroys all point to anything on this earth, makes even the best food in luxurious surroundings taste like metal. This is why widespread polygamy is somewhere between untreated diabetes and cancer for any society that does it, since no country can afford to have a preponderance of its men just not give a rat’s @ss about the place.

    Jason, a proposal for you, and an observation: I was 49 when my twins were conceived. I was married (mistake, I know now) and did it via egg donor & gestational surrogate. I only really needed my wife for child care, and that’s hireable. For 3 years, my wife was on sex strike, for no real reasons other than resenting me being gone for my work a lot of the time (while doing the same work I was doing when we met), not making enough money to afford servants, and not being one of the alphas she could land for a time back in her pre-Wall days. It’s still not like it was before we married, but you know what? The kids, the joy and meaning they give, dwarf that lack and resentment. Not having anymore what I felt for 30 years I just HAD to have is bothersome, but not enough so that I am willing to upset the apple cart and openly look. (I do believe that some soft dread partially turned her around; I told her that I thought her filing for frivorce was just a matter of time, and I was prepared to deal with that.)

    So, anyway, if you’ll spend the 100 grand like I did, you too can probably have a couple of happy, healthy, smart, wonderful little kids that make it all worthwhile. I expect and plan to work until I croak (got to get them through STEM bachelor’s degrees if I can’t get them married off as first preference), but I came to terms with that at the beginning. My plan B was to just work for 3 years, then go hiking the rest of my life, and I still miss it. But, adulthood is in large part making major decisions, and accepting what the consequences are of the path you choose.

  276. Dale says:

    @Bee
    Thanks Bee 🙂 May God bless your family as well.

    @Paul

    Re Flanders from Homer pic: That was a low blow. And hilarious 🙂

    @Paul / Hank
    >Louvre

    I went here. And was bored. But, I am not a keen art appreciator, so…

  277. Bee says:

    Hank Flanders,

    ” I seriously doubt the woman in the video at 1:12, 8:15, 16:46, and 29:27 would have much cared about a man’s lack of sexual or relational experience. Her priorities were elsewhere, as she had a kid to think about. By the way, the video isn’t pleasant to watch, so you might not want to watch it all.”

    CAUTION: A divorced mom (or single mom) is a divorced mom wherever you are in the world. A divorced mom in the Ukraine has just as many dangerous issues as a divorced mom in North America.

    1. Without talking to the ex-husband, how do you really know that he was as abusive as she says? Maybe she has a stubborn, rebellious streak a mile wide!
    2. The first divorce is always the hardest to navigate. But after going through her first divorce, it is much easier for a divorced mom to go through divorce 2, divorce 3, etc. Foreign wives in the US quickly learn that the divorce laws favor them, even to get a green card quickly.
    3. If you marry a divorce mom, you could be committing adultery with her.

  278. Opus says:

    @Jason

    Patience.

    A friend of mine about the time of the millenium – never married and then about your age – decided that the meaning of life and the woman of his dreams would be found in Mexico. He quit his job and with some money he had moved to Mexico, and rented an apartment. It was not long before he became thoroughly miserable and no matter what I wrote to him in E-Mail it was enough to upset him. He cut his losses and returned and shortly after returning, walking out of his house one morning on his way to work he began talking to a woman who was passing – vaguely they had met years earlier. They have been together now for over a decade. It is true she has a daughter and that she had never married but she was and perhaps still is good looking and with a great figure. No student debt or any debt and is self-employed. They are happy and obviously click which is strange as they are from different social classes and religious backgrounds.

  279. Hank Flanders says:

    Bee,

    You’re right, but Jason had said he was willing to be a step-dad, so I was just demonstrating that it was unlikely that that lady’s priorities would have included worrying about a man’s lack of sexual experience, given that she had a child to consider.

    On the divorced woman subject, though, I once had a profile on a Christian dating site, which was probably ChristianMingle. In the section where I listed the marital status of the women I was willing to consider, I put “Single / Never Married” and “Widowed,” so I put an additional message in my profile about possibly being willing to consider a divorced woman but that I would want to know the situation.

    At one point, I had a divorced, middle-aged woman message me to tell me that she didn’t realize men might not consider her for having been divorced, and she said it with a kind of “how dare you?” tone, because she included the word “interesting” in her message. I explained my scriptural view on marrying a divorced woman, and she responded that she was a “Daughter of the King” and implied something about being worthy of love due to that fact. I told her that yes, her life was redeemed through Christ but that didn’t mean anyone owed her marriage. She then proceed to tell me that I didn’t seem very humble. I told her “conversation over” and removed the message about divorced women from my profile altogether.

  280. Jason says:

    Im not against men going overseas to find a wife. It happens. Horro stories in these matters make for good made-for-TV-movies and for the press….who never lack for a good story…..I am sure Dale will be fine, and Hank too.

    As for being a surrogate. I see why men do this, and I don’t have a problem with this either. If actual adoption by single men was allowed in this country more would go this route I am sure. I even knew a married couple that tried to adopt……goodness…..you had to be perfect. No wonder the overseas adoption from China and Korea is booming! The exception is gays….because we all know they “can teach straights a thing or two about real love and committment and being parents”

    Opus….your story you related was some of the best advice I have ever been given on this forum. Not unconventional…..and yet seemed natural. That is probably my best bet.

    All the situations here take work. A trust and I guess something else that vannot be explained by game, your looks or status in the world.

    Thank you

  281. BillyS says:

    Bee,

    That is what makes me so pessimistic about finding a wife at this point in my life (later 50s). Why would she be available? Even a widow would have severe challenges due to the environment today, let alone the other choices. (The never married ones were either quite loose or would have trouble with a true marriage after so many years “being in control”, or both.)

    God said it is not good for a man to be alone, but that seems to be the only valid option now.

  282. Paul says:

    @Dale: to each his own; the Louvre is a very efficient way to see major highlights of thousands of years of human creativity, from all/many major civilizations, as sculpture, jewelry, furniture, tapestry and paintings. Most people enjoy that 😀

  283. earl says:

    ‘ I explained my scriptural view on marrying a divorced woman, and she responded that she was a “Daughter of the King” and implied something about being worthy of love due to that fact. I told her that yes, her life was redeemed through Christ but that didn’t mean anyone owed her marriage. She then proceed to tell me that I didn’t seem very humble. I told her “conversation over” and removed the message about divorced women from my profile altogether.’

    All the more reason to have never considered them in the first place. Instead of looking at our Lord as some tyrannical law maker…perhaps it’s better to see that He has your back. The Scriptural reasons for not marrying a divorced person being one example.

  284. earl says:

    ‘God said it is not good for a man to be alone, but that seems to be the only valid option now.’

    It is still not good for a man to be alone…problem is a lot of women don’t seem to have ever taken that passage into account.

  285. Hank Flanders says:

    earl, my reasoning was that I would consider someone whose first husband had committed adultery, leading to their divorce. For instance, I have a friend who married a woman whose first husband had cheated on her…with men. In addition, he’s now in jail on charges related to an underage girl. I get that it might still not be wise to marry a woman who chose her first husband so poorly, but I don’t believe it’s necessarily immoral. However, I guess even sexual immorality isn’t considered a scriptural basis for divorce to Catholics, correct?

  286. earl says:

    However, I guess even sexual immorality isn’t considered a scriptural basis for divorce to Catholics, correct?

    Short answer, yes. The reasoning.

    https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/did-jesus-say-adultery-is-grounds-for-divorce

    I think the important thing to remember however is if you decide to divorce (because I could certainly understand the other spouse’s sexual immorality leading to that)…you can’t remarry until the divorced spouse is dead.

  287. Bee says:

    Billy S.,

    “That is what makes me so pessimistic about finding a wife at this point in my life (later 50s). Why would she be available? Even a widow would have severe challenges due to the environment today, let alone the other choices. (The never married ones were either quite loose or would have trouble with a true marriage after so many years “being in control”, or both.)”

    I agree with you that any woman today involves some risk. I think a widow, who wants to remarry, would have less risk than the divorcee or never married. Even with the widow, you have to vet hard, and share hard Biblical principles and see if she rolls her eyes or recoils.

    If you feel led to marry again, search but do not settle out of desperation. All the best to you.

  288. BillyS says:

    That would likely be true Bee. I am open to it, but no way to easily search.

    The widow risk would be that I could never compare to her first husband, since she would likely only remember the good points or see any bad points I had as identical to him if she didn’t like him.

  289. Billy….for men in our situations…..it does look overall pretty grim…….hence why hobbies, activities and just general self improvement are pretty much our options.

    I have my hobbies but really striving to get a rock hard stomach, clear up debt, trying to sock more away for the “retirement”

    I’m a pretty busy guy, and yes….very lonely…..walls close in some nights and it’s almost painful…..We have to be open……but me going on the town to clubs, restaurants and wineries up here to just meet a women is really out of the question at my age. Younger set…and def not Christian

  290. JRob says:

    BillyS,
    I took to dating only widows long ago. As stated, vet them. A MUST. A woman may have stayed married for 20 years but still acted the same way as all the others (infidelity, shrewdom, etc.)
    Young women aren’t worth the risk after being run through the Divorce, Inc official wood chipper in my opinion. Widows have a lesser risk IMO as you can view a track record.

    My layman’s advice, part of vetting:
    -Don’t even think of marrying a woman with teenagers at home. You will be the “dude dating Mom” and will be hated by default
    -Figure out quickly if she’s an emotional/financial black hole and pull the eject lever immediately if so
    -understand, as a commenter wrote in a previous thread, you’ll have to deal with her being a little bit feminist, and a little bit careerist. It’s just what’s out there, with the possibility of loyalty. In other words,
    AWALT

  291. JRob says:

    Young women aren’t worth the TO US risk after WE’VE BEEN run through the Divorce, Inc official wood chipper in my opinion.

    Clarification. And, I’m assuming you’re not wanting “hit it n’ quit its.” Once your shrew cunt is gone and things settle down, it’ll be better. Take a LONG hiatus. Look around, get into the Word. Plan your finances. Thank God every day for what you have left. In the big scheme of.things, it’s still a lot.

    Once you get your wits about you and don’t give a shit one way or the other if you have a woman around, you’ll have an epiphany. “Loneliness” as we define it in the West is underrated. Solitude is exceptional, embrace it. No more nagging cheating money grubbing banshee in my house anymore. For 16 years. If I want company, I go find it. If not, l don’t. If said company starts acting juvenile, I send it on down the road.

  292. JRob says:

    Oh, and make yourself not ever care how you compare to her first husband. The pants of the relationship are yours to keep or lose.

  293. feeriker says:

    I would consider someone whose first husband had committed adultery, leading to their divorce.

    Maybe I’m now just an incurable cynic. but whenever I hear a divorced women say that the reason for the divorce was that “my husband was cheating on me, ” my VERY first thought is “he probably wasn’t ‘getting any’ from you and found a woman who would meet his needs. Creating a dead bedroom, which most wives do after getting married, is tantamouunt to mailing out open invitations for auditions for the role of ‘the Other Woman’.”

  294. earl says:

    I get that it might still not be wise to marry a woman who chose her first husband so poorly, but I don’t believe it’s necessarily immoral.

    Put it this way…if we treated marriage as seriously as we should…we wouldn’t be choosing spouses so lackadaisical.

    I also have no clue how a woman would miss clearly homosexual traits unless she wanted to. That husband didn’t just start cheating on men when he got married to her.

  295. Hank Flanders says:

    earl, you may be right, but I think they were only like 18 when they got married (if that old). I also knew him and his family for a few years before he got married, and although I knew he was kind of arrogant and weird, it never entered my mind that he might be gay or bi or whatever it is that he is, because he didn’t put out any obvious mannerisms or traits or anything like that. Then again, maybe I wasn’t around him enough to notice. Of course, I was just a teenager myself at the time, too, so maybe I just hadn’t learned to catch on to that kind of thing yet. His eventual wife may not have either at that point. We’re all in our 30s now.

  296. Hank Flanders says:

    feeriker, well, I said, that was my reasoning. Now, I’d rather just not even deal with it at all.

  297. Paul says:

    @Billy,earl : “God said it is not good for a man to be alone, but that seems to be the only valid option now.”

    That was before the Fall. St.Paul gives the realistic options to Christians (1Co7):

    Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do.
    [..] But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.

  298. Pingback: Is it the man’s responsibility to pursue the woman, or the other way around? | WINTERY KNIGHT

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  300. Pingback: Is it the man’s responsibility to pursue the woman, or the other way around? | WINTERY KNIGHT

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