How women’s calculus of marriage shapes America

Check out Fabius Maximus’ milestone post on the gender wars:  See how women’s calculus of marriage shapes America

The women of Generation X came as close as humanly possible to having it all — careers, children, marriage on their terms, divorce on their terms. Since the incentives for divorce are so high, many wives divorced. People are rational.

The women of Generation Y are repeating this playbook. Most are succeeding, but they find fewer men are willing to marry. Men are condemned for this, as they are condemned for so many things these days. That does not make them more interested in marriage.

My guess is that Millennial women (Gen Y) will find far fewer men willing to marry. I believe that in the next ten or twenty years this evolution will pass a tipping point. Beyond that marriage will still exist, but not in its present form for most people. Nor will it serve the same function as it does in our society today. We will better understood what traditional marriage did for American when its gone.

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246 Responses to How women’s calculus of marriage shapes America

  1. Dalrock and I have some interesting insights about how this might occur, material for future articles.

    History shows that such step changes are rare in these fundamental institutions. Those that happen are considered impossible — until they occur (because we ignore the disturbing incremental changes that build pressure for change). Then they are seen as obviously inevitable.

  2. Pingback: How women’s calculus of marriage shapes America | @the_arv

  3. Damn Crackers says:

    From the Fabius Maximus post:

    “There are indications that women rate most men (roughly 80%) as below average in physical attractiveness, and hence lower than them. It is another example of the Pareto principle.”

    Other than the eunuchs mentioned by Jesus in the Gospels, what other philosopher/religious figure has had to answer how the ugly have no chance with marriage? Where is the philosophy/religion for the omega man (ugly/unwanted/incel)?

  4. honeycomb says:

    People are rational.

    Did they say “People” [sic]? Because what th wimminz are doing is not rational. There are much better words than rational [sic]. Think predatory.

    What men are doing is truly “rational” [sic] in response though.

  5. Minesweeper says:

    @honeycomb, yes they really dont see how their behaviour utterly ruins it for themselves and the generations after them. They are so blind. Yet still, every divorcee is celebrated and she comes out swinging\boasting to take him for every penny she can and she will.

    They don’t think men can see this ? It really is insane.

    Most women in divorce win the lottery, in generations to come, maybe the few women getting married will be seen as winning the lottery. Tell you something, with the >40’s crowd, if a woman gets married now she is viewed as that among her cohorts. As they all want to but nobody is biting, we have seen what is in store and its rotten to the core.

  6. Gunner Q says:

    This is nothing new. Every parasite movement starts out strong because of abundant prey then dies off when starvation turns its attentions inward. Communists. Feminists. Arsonists, the lot of them.

    “Since the incentives for divorce are so high, many wives divorced. People are rational.”

    This is totally wrong. RATIONAL women would stay with their perfectly good husbands, serving him in the evenings and playing with their girlfriends in the mornings, all while raising healthy, happy kids. Choosing to ruin your entire family in return for chasing herpes-infected Chad cock and ending up alone, unloved and the eyeballs eaten out of your corpse by your 25 cats has never once been a rational decision. “I can’t do better than this”? Really?

    Atheists are crazy, always claiming Original Sin issues like hypergamy and pedestalizing are healthy habits. If evolution was correct then unchaining ourselves from external moralities like Christianity in order to follow our basest instincts should be healthy behavior. Not even close.

  7. Oscar says:

    Anyone who thinks that “people are rational” needs to get out more. Yes, people respond to incentives, but a truly rational person can see the perversity of a perverse incentive.

  8. Joe says:

    Both of my kids have no interest in marriage. My boy is financially independent and debt free at age 27, and worked hard for it. Why get married and then have most of it taken by some crazy women? He is well aware of that. At this point, he doesn’t even live in the US any more. He told me several years ago that American women are spoiled and entitled. Smart boy for his age. We both know what an exception he is to the rule.
    My girl is a “catch” as well. NOT spoiled and entitled and very beautiful. But she can read the landscape too. She flat out told us “I’m good. I just don’t need that”. She knows that too many guys are weak beta soyboys with 50-100K in college debt. She doesn’t want that. My girl is debt free. Why marry into such debt?
    She is moving to another house soon. NOT ONE guy in her church group offered to help. In my day in the 80’s I helped plenty of women move. No, I didn’t do it for free. My goal was to scope out the hard working and pretty chicks during the move, then ask them out. I guess now guys are too busy drinking lattes or playing video games to “help” (scope them out and seek a relationship).
    Honestly, I blame the Church for a lot of this. It seems like they are a part of creating bets males.
    PS
    It worked. I married a hard working chick! I found that out by putter HER to work before we even started dating! I knew from that she would be a great “helpmeet”. She was my helper even before we got married. Sh proved herself.And 30 years later, she still does.

  9. feeriker says:

    @honeycomb, yes they really dont see how their behaviour utterly ruins it for themselves and the generations after them. They are so blind.

    They are selfish and solipsistic, which is their true nature. This is why, for most of human history, their behavior was tightly ccontrolled and they were allowed very little latitude in making their own decisions (claims by “progressive revisionist” historians to the contrary notwithstanding). Civilization has somehow forgotten all of this, which is why we are where we are today. One of two things will happen: women will either be reined in again in order to save civilization, or a complete collapse is inevitable. My money, of course, is on tbe latter.

  10. Rick says:

    There’s an interesting film called Cherry 2000. In the film, which is set in the future, men get off work, go to a bar to pick up women. Before anything happens between them each party has to sign a legal paper which is witnessed and notarized by a lawyer. The main character doesn’t want to deal with real women and has a Fembot at home ( the Cherry 2000 ). Unfortunately, the film ends with a pro-feminist message, but I don’t think the film is too far off what the future holds assuming the West is functioning when Fembots become a viable option.

  11. JRob says:

    “Rational” in this context is used correctly IMO. Doing what you’re easily allowed/subsidized to do is akin to water running downhill.

    True faith in Christ and the proper obedience that follows will short circuit these proclivities, through *correct* submission and holding others in higher esteem than oneself. All else is.”rational” in the secular sense.

    See: the feminized Western church

  12. Novaseeker says:

    It’s “rational” behavior from the perspective of a woman because a woman can maximize her control over “her” children while continuing to extract resources from their father. This is optimal from the perspective of a woman who is no longer sexually interested in her husband, certainly, but also for any woman who desires to monopolize control over “her” children while still getting the benefit of their father’s finances. It’s not rational in terms of being the best for her kids, that’s true, but it an be the best for *her*, personally, in terms of addressing her needs for control and security again in the context where she has lost sexual interest in her husband, which is normal in marriages.

    The main issues are that easy divorce on women’s terms (women’s control over kids and financial resource extraction from ex-H), low stigma socially for divorce (outside of upper middle class), and women’s own income (which, coupled with child support, satisfies women’s innate security needs and her current desire for maximum independence). It isn’t so much to chase additional men — some women do that, many do not. The current system just gives women the ability to get their security needs and independence/control needs satisfied by marrying and then divorcing — or rather, it produces incentives to divorce rather than disincentives to do so. It isn’t rational from the long-term perspective of women as a whole, or from the perspective of a woman’s children, but from the perspective of one specific woman … sure, in many cases it is, especially where she isn’t sexually interested in H any longer, which is the typical marriage after a while.

  13. Minesweeper says:

    @feeriker, yeah you can see how women themselves used to police their actions as a whole, as without that the crazies ruin the whole show for everyone. And in doing so they maximised male output and their goals to have children. Women do have to restrict sex as a society to channel men into lifelong obligation that they otherwise wouldn’t want.

    Oh well, I guess women nowadays didnt get that memo.

    my money is on the collapse as well, not just society but tax \ gov debt. Guys really downscale their working when they are being stolen from after a divorce, I’ve known guys to go from $200k to $50k in response, way to go to motivate men. At some point men will just say f8ck this.

    Taxation beforehand represented enough of a fair deal that you could be reasonably content, now its just outright robbery of which you will never see a cent and it directly passed to others who have never worked for it.

    vax had a post that stated the lifetime costs to the gov for an individual, it was race based mostly, if they had split that up into the sexes and if it would be well known, well they really should have different tax codes per individuals, and white\asian men should have the lowest. With bank cards\smart phones it will be easy to quantify an individuals lifetime tax input or costs, you should pay for what you get and not to subsidise millions in ingrates.

  14. dudedont says:

    In the news today, divorce lawyers are reporting male citizens who avoid lawful marriages escape their court system all together.

  15. Rick says:

    Single Male tax incoming.

  16. Damn Crackers says:

    @Rick – “Cherry 2000” or VR is going to make all this religious/divorce/marriage debate superfluous. The institution will cease to exist, and children will be produced Axlotl tanks or by the Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning in the Fertilizing Room.

  17. Paul says:

    People are rational….. yeah right! Even in economics this was long time the simplistic perception (Rational Choice Theory), but not anymore.

  18. Oscar says:

    Again; anyone who thinks that “people are rational” needs to step away from his books and screens and go meet some actual people.

  19. Paul says:

    Before reaching the marriage tipping point I expect something else will happen.
    It’s astonishing how feminists have aligned with fundamentalist Mohammedans, which have a totally different marriage ethic. I would not be surprised if many will end up as one of many brides, or even sex slaves. We’ve seen what IS has done to Yezidi women and non-IS men.

  20. Oscar says:

    Off Topic: Did you know that “responsible fatherhood” reinforces “patriarchy”?

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/prof-claims-responsible-fatherhood-reinforces-patriarchy/

    A feminist professor at California State University-Fresno recently published an article lamenting that federal programs to promote “responsible fatherhood” among vulnerable men in fact perpetuate “patriarchy,” “gender norms,” and “hegemonic masculinity.”

    These programs aim to “reshape men’s gender identities in line with a type of hegemonic masculinity focused on well-paid work and family breadwinning,” she laments, claiming that they “legitimate patriarchal power.”

    By teaching men to “man up,” not repress their feelings, and avoid “absentee” fatherhood, these programs promote a “hybridized gender identity” that ultimately does nothing to challenge the patriarchal status quo, Randles writes.

    Why, yes Prof Randles, responsible fatherhood does, in fact, reinforce patriarchy, which reduces poverty, criminality, and multigenerational social pathologies. You say that as though it’s a bad thing.

  21. Joe…no way would I ever help a “nice church girl” move. These men today who didn’t offer to help “your catch of a daughter” are actually doing the smart thing. Many are just tired of being rejected, or passed up, or labeled a “creep” for daring to talk to an “amazing catch” of a girl. Part of it isn’t because they are ‘soy boys’ or “wimps” but for the fact that if they go on a date and doesn’t work out????? He gaffs, says something wrong, or anything that could be deemed creepy…guess who has to leave the church? Guess who now will be “of limits” to all the women in this church? Guess who will get a talking to by the pastoral team of the girls “manly” father.

    Women are allowed to make mistakes with bad boys, allowed to have children out of wedlock. Are allowed to have sex…..any serious young Christian man today gets only ONE chance with ONE girl in his church. Most people in the USA attend churches under 200 attendees weekly……..

    It was different in the 1980’s. The USA doesn’t even resemble that country anymore….and I was there as a teenager. It’s a time I would just rather forget.

    Also, most younger men are confused. Any more they make is “wrong” and then heaped with shame, and guilt. Most men also are not in the top 20% today……and know that any girl they ask is going to say “no” or tattle on him, or talk about him to their girlfriends.

  22. DR Smith says:

    Tipping point has already starting to be reached:

    http://time.com/money/4116161/alimony-reform-spousal-support/
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43882061

    The time article is from 2015 of all things; the one from BBC very recent. While the lib in UK cry foul and want divorce to be easier, it is actually very tough to get one, especially the longer the couple has been married.

    I say wait 5 to 10 more years, and you will actually see woman start to fight to make divorce harder, because they are starting to realize that as they continue to push men further down to social economic pole, they actually stand more to lose. When it comes to sex/relationships, hypergammy don’t care – but when it comes to money, the brain sits up and takes notice!

  23. honeycomb says:

    She is moving to another house soon. NOT ONE guy in her church group offered to help. In my day in the 80’s I helped plenty of women move. No, I didn’t do it for free.

    As you have said .. no one works for free. Men have finally put themselves first. That’s the change from the 80’s to today.

    Three years ago a recenty divorced mother of a son moved into the neighborhood. I had many a good converstation with this womminz.

    One of those convo’s was about something she lamented about .. an old women had a flat tire and was stranded on the road. She continued to say that NOT ONE man stopped to help. She and another woman helped push her off the road and gave her a ride to her house near-bye.

    She remarked that she was disturbed that no man stopped and offered assistance. In fact most drove by without even a care for them and the others laughed and waved as they passed.

    I gave her an education she couldn’t believe. In fact she said that can’t be so.

    This young lady was most upset I think that her young tight body and smile couldn’t procur a helping hand for this old woman.

    The fact is she was very upset about her divorced husband having no trouble finding her replacement.

    She go 6 months of a free education before she re-married another divorced single parent. She was pregnant within 2 months of her second marriage.

    I could’ve scripted this without even knowing her.

  24. Anon says:

    “There are indications that women rate most men (roughly 80%) as below average in physical attractiveness, and hence lower than them. It is another example of the Pareto principle.”

    This indicates how innumerate women are.

    Note that this is NOT a question of ‘who do you find attractive’. Men might very well indicate that only 20% of women are attractive, but yet accurately identify where the average is.

    But women don’t even understand what an *average* is. Many had $500K+ spent on them by taxpayers and their fathers for K-12, college, and grad school.

    This also proves that sexual psychology comprises the *entirety* of female psychology and they have no concepts or identity outside of that. To rate 80% of men as ‘below average’ can only happen when the population doing the rating is so self-absorbed and obsessed that they have forgotten that ‘average’ and ‘who I like’ are two different things.

  25. Anonymous Reader says:

    Joe
    My girl is a “catch” as well. NOT spoiled and entitled and very beautiful.

    Your perspective might be a bit biased, you know.

    But she can read the landscape too. She flat out told us “I’m good. I just don’t need that”. She knows that too many guys are weak beta soyboys with 50-100K in college debt. She doesn’t want that. My girl is debt free. Why marry into such debt?

    Let me guess, she’s not yet 27 years old, is that correct? As she gets closer to the age of 29.999 she may shift her position.

    She is moving to another house soon. NOT ONE guy in her church group offered to help.

    Perhaps they are not interested in being her beta orbiter. I’m sure that a strong, independent woman like your daughter really didn’t need help moving, though. She needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.

    In my day in the 80’s I helped plenty of women move.

    I’m sure you did. Checking my calendar, I see that the 1980’s were done about 30 years ago…

    Congrats, your daughter may be exactly the kind of woman that Larry’s article is discussing.

  26. honeycomb says:

    Dr Smith sez ..
    I say wait 5 to 10 more years, and you will actually see woman start to fight to make divorce harder, because they are starting to realize that as they continue to push men further down to social economic pole, they actually stand more to lose. When it comes to sex/relationships, hypergammy don’t care – but when it comes to money, the brain sits up and takes notice!

    No one will care at that point.

    Because all men know this one important fact .. laws can change .. ask the men who married in the 1950’s and divorced many years later.

    So, if you want to trust th wommonz to be “rational” .. please send me money because I’m a Prince and need some seed money to free up my fortune .. I promise to refund you 500% your money .. promise.

  27. earl says:

    Feminism only works if it has the legions of white knights.

    What I can say about men is…even if there will always be a segment of them steeped in the blue pill…ALL of us don’t stay steeped in it. Men want truth.

  28. Novaseeker nails it: “It’s rational behavior from the perspective of a woman because a woman can maximize her control over ‘her’ children while continuing to extract resources from their father.”

    While irrational in many ways, people are usually good at calculating incentives — although it often takes a few generations for people to realize the rules or circumstances have changed.

    The other thing mentioned above is the difference between behavior that is “rational for me” and “rationale for society.” They are often different. In economics, its the difference between microeconomics (more savings is better for me) and macroeconomics (if we all save more, the economy slows). The Prisoner’s Dilemma is another example of this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma

    The great philosopher Immanuel Kant resolved this with his “Categorical Imperative”: each of us should act in a way that will make society better if we all acted that way.” Since few of us are philosophers, that maxim never got much traction.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_imperative

  29. DR Smith says:

    @ honeycomb

    Don’t disagree with you; yes, change will come, but likely too late for the current gen Y and gen Z..
    My point was this – money is often the strongest motivating factors for woman, especially those past 40. They will pay attention when they start having to pay money to their ex’s.

    Yes, laws can change and the power can keep getting tossed around between men and woman, but the funny thing is that nature abhors a vacuum, and there is a big one in the West right now where the protection of men and their rights are concerned. Maybe we can hope for the generations after Y and Z, Because if not we might as well burn society down now before it collapses on itself…that way men can rebuild it back up quicker and return to power. I can’t speak for everyone on this forum, but I say that will have to happen, anyway, for balance to be restored.

  30. Oscar says:

    @ Earl

    Men want truth.

    That contradicts both observation and what Jesus said.

    John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.

  31. And……men ho want action as in dating et al are told by “real men” that “you don’t do anything for women…..and if you do? You’re a beta, blue-pilled chump, and not a real man”

    So, yeah…what’s a younger guy to do?

  32. Caspar Reyes says:

    @Anon

    This indicates how innumerate women are.

    From my comments over at Fabius (you are invited to go read them whole):

    I think the upshot is that most women only notice 20% of men, and they are “attractive” because they are noticed. It’s a tautology.

    Or as honeycomb might put it, it’s a taught-all-oh-gee.

  33. Anon raises a point others made in this thread: “This indicates how innumerate women are.”

    That’s misreading the results. It would be innumerate if women believed that the sample they saw was representative of all men. In fact, they’re looking at a small number of profiles.

    My interpretation (guess) is, as stated in the post, that this shows the effect of programs to boost women’s self-esteem. They have exalted ideas of what they deserve in men, and this standard guides their evaluations.

    It’s a commonplace dynamic in people, both men and women. It’s called Illusory Superiority, aka the Lake Wobegon effect. People tend to see themselves as better than average. For example, in driving skill.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

  34. honeycomb says:

    Dr Smith sez ..
    the funny thing is that nature abhors a vacuum, and there is a big one in the West right now where the protection of men and their rights are concerned.

    No doubt. And, until “PROPERTY RIGHTS” are returned to marriage .. men will see not only a vacuum but a temperature of 2.7 Kelvin (-270.45 Celsius, -454.81 Fahrenheit).

    And regarding this “zero sum game wimminz are playing” .. men need to know th wimminz are keeping score. They never stop keeping score. They will not be happy on giving up “hard earned” (HEH) gains. Even the most passive (claimed) non-feminist womminz will be outraged and become violently vocal in protest.

  35. honeycomb says:

    Caspar Reyes sez ..
    Or as honeycomb might put it, it’s a taught-all-oh-gee.

    Now that’s funny eye-don’t-care-who-ya-r .. lol

  36. Bruce says:

    “One of two things will happen: women will either be reined in again in order to save civilization, or a complete collapse is inevitable. My money, of course, is on tbe latter”

    My guess is the collapse will effect some countries first and other countries will learn from this collapse – money is on Western Europe and North America collapsing first.

  37. JRob says:

    …the difference between behavior that is “rational for me” and “rationale for society”

    Rational as seen from base human nature, “What’s in it for me?” Altruism, honor, and mutual sacrifice are not innate feminine traits.

  38. Anonymous Reader says:

    This research paper is being discussed / analyzed in various parts of the androsphere. The data were obtained from dating sites in 4 cities. The methodology is good.

    http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/8/eaap9815

    Here is a key graph. Pay close attention to the curves on the left hand side in the “desireability rank”:

    http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/advances/4/8/eaap9815/F2.large.jpg?width=800&height=600&carousel=1

  39. Cane Caldo says:

    @Larry Kummer

    That’s misreading the results. It would be innumerate if women believed that the sample they saw was representative of all men. In fact, they’re looking at a small number of profiles.

    Yes. Women prefer the top 20% of whomever is in their “field of vision”, and they are always comparing them. The more feral (uneducated in morals and ethics) the woman, the more this is true.

    My interpretation (guess) is, as stated in the post, that this shows the effect of programs to boost women’s self-esteem. They have exalted ideas of what they deserve in men, and this standard guides their evaluations.

    If we took 1,000 men and placed them in women’s field of vision, they would select the 200 most attractive as “attractive”, and the rest as “unattractive” because their desire is always comparative; always whittling down to the top fifth.[1]

    If, after that selection, we banished the 800 “unattractive” and left them with only the 200 “attractive”, after some time we would find that only 40 of the men were now considered “attractive”. If we then brought back the original 800 along with 1,000 new men, the new total of attractive men would be 400. Some of those 400 would be some of the 800 men who were initially deemed “unattractive”. Hypergamy, like all disordered desires, is always calling. I believe this has been true since their has been human society; that women in the Ancient World had the same comparative preference for the top fifth. The difference is that they more often had to live with the consequences of their choices.

    I would have left a comment similar to this on your site, but for some reason when I address you here you take my meaning in the best possible way. When I comment at your site, you tend to take it in the worst.

    [1] Women tend to project this comparative preference onto men as a fear; as if we are like them. We’re not. It’s perfectly normal for us to find a pool of women and determine that most of them are attractive.

  40. earl says:

    That contradicts both observation and what Jesus said.

    Good men want truth.

    Notice I still said before some men always want the ‘blue pill’…well let’s call it what it is…darkness, evil.

  41. Minesweeper says:

    @DRsmith, divorce enablement is a complete non event apart from the lawyers fees and the emotional turmoil. The only reason the bbc article was listed and that she couldnt get what she wanted was that he contested, which occurs maybe 1 in 100000, so at that point she had to prove he was unreasonable and abusive and failed miserably doing so.

    But a women NOT getting what she wants at every occasion, is a big friggin deal. If it was the other way round, she contested his divorce action it would have never made the esteemed pages of the SJW\feminist bent BBC and he would have been classed as abusive in doing so.

  42. Oscar says:

    @ Earl

    Good men want truth.

    There you go. Now; according to Jesus, are most men good or wicked?

  43. Minesweeper says:

    @honeycomb says:”Because all men know this one important fact .. laws can change .. ask the men who married in the 1950’s and divorced many years later.”

    not only can your laws change, she can go divorce shopping to the best state \country without your approval or agreement or knowledge. So ANY country in the world to offer the best divorce deal for her, she can move to and get on with it. Your permission is no longer required.

    The fact that practically all men who marry in the west sign the contract without knowing the exit terms is almost unbelievable.

  44. earl says:

    Now; according to Jesus, are most men good or wicked?

    And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.

    Every man is wicked unless they have the grace of God to do good deeds.

  45. feeriker says:

    Anyone who thinks that “people are rational” needs to get out more.

    Yeah, I thought that was a bizarre statement, too. It certainly doesn’t jibe with what I’ve observed as normal behavior among the denizens of this planet.

    Yes, people respond to incentives, but a truly rational person can see the perversity of a perverse incentive.

    Exactly. Responding to incentives !=rational behavior per se. It seems obvious that while it is ingrained behavior for humans to do so, the incentives themselves aren’t always in the individual’s best interests, so responding to them can be downright destructive and IRrational.

  46. Joe says:

    seventiesjason says:
    August 16, 2018 at 11:50 am
    Joe…no way would I ever help a “nice church girl” move…
    ***********************************************************
    What can I say? It worked for me. But I was a pretty good judge of character. I did stay far away from the nut jobs. There were plenty of nutty chicks back then too. But I was always good at reading people.

  47. Oscar says:

    @ earl

    Every man is wicked unless they have the grace of God to do good deeds.

    Also correct. So, do most men “have the grace of God to do good deeds”, or not?

  48. earl says:

    She is moving to another house soon. NOT ONE guy in her church group offered to help.

    I have to ask to get better context of the story.

    Did any of them know she was moving? I mean it’s one thing if she told a lot of them and they didn’t offer help.

  49. earl says:

    So, do most men “have the grace of God to do good deeds”, or not?

    I would say no.

  50. honeycomb says:

    Minesweeper sez ..
    The fact that practically all men who marry in the west sign the contract without knowing the exit terms is almost unbelievable.

    That is a true statement and I’ll add this ..

    NO Womminz is held in breach of contract for her filing for divorce. She can even have a pre-nup invalidated. Why? Well, because DIVORCE Inc (court) is a court of Equality and not one of Justice.

    Men fail to know just the basic’s of a marriage contract .. much less the ending.

    I recommend .. I believe Boxer said this .. that every man interested in marriage spend the week watching divorce court proceedings at his local divorce court. And, have to pay for 5 hours of Divorce Attorney time to advise him on what he saw / witnessed during that week.

    Man-da-tore-ee .. don’t pass go .. don’t collect $200 .. go straight to jail for the week and get educated on your highly likely encounter with the man-hating court of law.

  51. Well Joe, maybe the young men in your church who didn’t offer to help think she’s a nutter, and if not that…….probably just she gives off da vibe that she doesn’t need a guy to help her, or she has preselected “which” guy is “supposed” to help her.

    I really can’t blame them for not wanting to offer. I have seen firsthand what teenage boys and younger men are dealing with at home and with the extreme expectations of their fellow Christian sisters

  52. Oscar says:

    @ Earl

    I would say no.

    Therein lies the problem. Most men don’t want the truth.

    Did any of them know she was moving? I mean it’s one thing if she told a lot of them and they didn’t offer help.

    That’s not how this works. She shouldn’t need to ask. Every available young man is supposed to eagerly await an opportunity to jump through hoops for a pat on the head.

  53. rdchemist says:

    @Joe

    “She is moving to another house soon. NOT ONE guy in her church group offered to help. In my day in the 80’s I helped plenty of women move. ”

    I agree with seventiesjason and a couple others.

    I wouldn’t advise the men in her church group to help her move either. In fact, I would discourage them from even offering.

    It starts to resemble the cartoon chivalry that tends to be mocked more and more.

    You should be offering to help your daughter move or other male relatives should be offering. Or she can pay movers to help her.

    There are too many women exploiting the labor of beta orbiters these days. It must end.

  54. Pingback: How women’s calculus of marriage shapes America | Reaction Times

  55. Minesweeper says:

    For AR, lets see if it can embed now:

  56. Minesweeper says:

    kinda like the idea that men are more desirable in their 40’s- mid 50’s 😀

  57. earl says:

    That’s not how this works. She shouldn’t need to ask. Every available young man is supposed to eagerly await an opportunity to jump through hoops for a pat on the head.

    Yeah well I’m trying to take down the blue pill here. Let’s get the whole story before we start blindly bashing men for not helping his princess.

  58. earl says:

    I remembered the Bill Burr bit whenever something bad happens to a woman and we immediately blame the guy…why we’re not allowed to ask questions? Wouldn’t you have some questions?

  59. Burner Prime says:

    Complaints about using the term “rational” are justified, as humans are not entirely rational, but rather “optimize” their decision-making based on survival algorithms. So the point is that these days, whamen are optimizing their choices based on current conditions in order to secure resources. That’s fine. It’s also not any secret that it is close to impossible to try to talk or reason a woman into remaining in a marriage. At some point her hard-wiring concludes her man is no longer the best provider for her. Rollo talked about this recently.

  60. BillyS says:

    Joe,

    Your daughter says she is fine without a man. Why would any man want to pursue her then? What value would they get? Being a beta orbiter while helping her to move? She is wasting her fertility and most attractive years on herself as well. She also still has the State backing her up to mess over a husband in the future. You are ignoring a great many things.

    Apply your son’s ideas to your daughter and you might open your eyes a bit.

  61. Oscar says:

    @ Earl

    Let’s get the whole story before we start blindly bashing men for not helping his princess.

    It’s not the young men that I’m criticizing. I’m not even criticizing the princess.

  62. Jonathan Castle says:

    The ‘Big Hook’ of Feminism was baited dacades ago with female empowerment (economic, sexual, legal) but is leaving this generation of 30-40 year-olds without what their biology wants most: children first and a husband second – to provide for it all.

    I feel a little bad for them as they are just doing what the women ten years ahead of them did.

    But as the interlocking action-reactions play out in this revolution, inter-sexual relationships get more openly exploitive in both directions. Don’t talk to men any more about ‘soul mates’. That’s so 1950’s.

    The end game of feminism is like all other cultural Marxist objectives: atomization and enslavement to the corporo-government elite.

  63. earl says:

    @BillyS

    Your daughter says she is fine without a man. Why would any man want to pursue her then? What value would they get? Being a beta orbiter while helping her to move? She is wasting her fertility and most attractive years on herself as well. She also still has the State backing her up to mess over a husband in the future. You are ignoring a great many things.

    To put it in plain terms…his daughter is still his responsibility. Why should any man who isn’t committed to her, help her? Surely he gets what ‘incentive’ means.

    I get making displays and whatnot for husband material…but until she gets married the man responsible for her is her father.

  64. Anon says:

    Consider just the monetary cost of turning Anglosphere countries into female fantasy camps.

    The US National Debt rose from $6T to $22T in just two decades, and that $16T addition is merely a PORTION of the wealth that the government transfers from men to women. It is merely the most excessive and egregious portion of that wealth.

    More accurately, in the last 20 years alone, the US has taken in taxes of about $34 Trillion and spent $50 Trillion. Most of that $50 Trillion (and therefore ALL of the deficit and then some) was a transfer from men to women.

    Note that this is NOT done in China or any other country that is not a mature (i.e. ending) democracy.

  65. As for dudes my age……been there done that……taken single mommies spawn out to baseball games, been there to talk about being a teenager. Been there to help with homework and give a kick to about “grades” and some social skills.

    Where has this gotten Jason with a “hot single, born-again Christian single mommy”?

    Zilch. I am labeled “nice” and “sweet” and “such a catch” but there these same women on Sundays asking question and giving comments during Sunday school “But this church doesn’t have any real men!!!”

    So, for years now. I do nothing, or focus my ministry to men and boys who need my help. I am polite to women. Look them in the eye…….general manners….but I’ll let the vast “sisterhood” handle the helps for women now

  66. 3423423 says:

    Joe- you told us your daughter has no interest in marriage. Why SHOULD a single man work for free for her? To be friendzoned??? She can carry her own furniture if she wants to be a “strong independent woman.”

  67. Minesweeper says:

    @honeycomb says: “NO Womminz is held in breach of contract for her filing for divorce. She can even have a pre-nup invalidated. Why? Well, because DIVORCE Inc (court) is a court of Equality and not one of Justice.”

    a couple of years ago in the UK as reported in the dailymail on 2 different articles, on the exact same day with same Judge – a women went in to have her pre nup validated = of course, a man with in to have his validated = overruled. both were very similar.

    you couldnt make it up. pre nups are essentially for women only, in divorce court the one with the skirt wins 99.999% of the time.

  68. earl says:

    Perhaps Joe knows but I’ll ask anyway…

    Just how much contraception is his daughter on?

  69. Anonymous Reader says:

    @Minesweeper

    Good job on embedding that graph. It is something every college-age girl should have explained to her with great care.

  70. earl says:

    kinda like the idea that men are more desirable in their 40’s- mid 50’s

    It shows how marital love can grow over time and why the old ways were more wise than the nonsense we have now.

    Women are the most desirable in their 20s for marriage for the reasons we allude to…youth, beauty, and fertility. As the marriage goes through time the man becomes more desirable…if she is smart she’s done enough to prove that when the man hits his desirable peak he rather be with her instead of going through a ‘mid life crisis’.

  71. Anonymous Reader says:

    @Earl

    Just write “wife goggles”. They work best when a man can “see” his wife in her 20’s, of course.
    And they can be broken…

  72. vfm7916 says:

    @seventiesjason

    “Where has this gotten Jason with a “hot single, born-again Christian single mommy”?

    Zilch. I am labeled “nice” and “sweet” and “such a catch” but there these same women on Sundays asking question and giving comments during Sunday school “But this church doesn’t have any real men!!!””

    So when some of us talk about Game, and TRP, perhaps you could listen or read without falling back into the niceguy trap? Same goes for Boxer, earl, and the other anti-Game commentators.

  73. earl says:

    Nice guy trap is a form of game. Just not a very successful one.

  74. Have not been a nice guy in a long time….game still doesn’t work…….it works if you have something to begin with. It works for some, others a little and a large swath…not at all. Truth

  75. OKRickety says:

    Joe,

    “Both of my kids have no interest in marriage.
    […]
    My girl is a “catch” as well.
    […]
    NOT ONE guy in her church group offered to help. In my day in the 80’s I helped plenty of women move. No, I didn’t do it for free. My goal was to scope out the hard working and pretty chicks during the move, then ask them out.

    As has been pointed out, this is not the 80’s. So, why the confusion, dude? If she has no interest in marriage, don’t you think the guys in her church group have figured that out? If so, why would they ask her out? I can only think of two groups that might; sadists who enjoy rejection, and guys looking for sex,

  76. vfm7916 says:

    I disagree. I think you’re capable of far more than you feel you are.

    Parable about the Talents applies here.

  77. nonsense vfm…,..”some were made eunuchs” and no one wants this. everyone longs to be endeared, wanted and loved……..in the church, it’s viewed as the “consolation prize” of “well, Jesus still loves you” but those gifts of celibacy are not allowed to fruition in the culture…….so I have to do this on my own. It’s not easy and its a “reluctant” gift….like “gee, thanks God….”

    I’m striving with it not because I like it, but because its “what I have” I still get angry with it and the sexual dreams are tormenting at times……the pains of not being good enough in “that way” hurt deeply….but “its what I have”

    Even when trying to overcome this……a man my age who has never even kissed a woman is a red flag…..too far gone, and besides……there are really no good women left….the ones who are left demand ‘chad” or are married. 🙂

  78. Minesweeper says:

    @Anonymous Reader says:”It is something every college-age girl should have explained to her with great care.”

    indeed, i would like to see the graph with both sex’s overlaid on top, interesting that their intersection is at 30. after that, men go up, women go down.

  79. Lmao at Joe. “no guy from her church group offered to help her move!”

    1. Any guy in her church group has already met her and either the two hit it off or not. Why be a creepy suck up who tries to get with women by being a nice guy orbiter?

    2. Church groups do seem to often be loser omega guys. Just like the girls often tend to be fat losers, or the cliche church girl/kinky freak. I wonder which your girl is?

  80. Oscar says:

    RE: Chart (education)

    Note that women with a master’s degree are only slightly more attractive than women with a high school diploma. The most attractive women have some college (trade school?) but not grad school.

    That makes sense.

    For now, a bachelor’s degree projects above average intelligence. Men want smart kids. Grad school, however, adds too many negatives. Too much debt, too much indoctrination, etc., not enough positives to make up for it.

    Of course, eventually, the same thing will happen with bachelor’s degrees. In fact, it’s probably already happening.

  81. earl says:

    If so, why would they ask her out?

    That’s true…if they know she doesn’t want marriage what incentive do they have to show her husbandry attributes. Again Joe…’incentive’.

    They’d be better off with vidya or helping their fellow man than trying to lie to a woman who doesn’t want them anyway.

  82. Anon says:

    Joe squealed :

    She is moving to another house soon. NOT ONE guy in her church group offered to help.

    This is the best thing I have heard all day! Women getting men to work for them for free is finally going away, and men have stopped groveling for the approval of worthless women.

  83. Well…she may not be worthless Anon….easy yo!

  84. Oscar says:

    Hit “post” too early.

    For men, however, higher degrees are more attractive. Why? Because higher degrees, generally, equal higher income. So, women still want men who project provider status.

    Surprise!

  85. earl says:

    Women getting men to work for them for free is finally going away, and men have stopped groveling for the approval of worthless women.

    If this is what it takes to make women realize the incentive of marriage again…I’m okay with it. The only way they’ll learn is seeing these type of results…not men trying to shield them from the consequences.

    Just like women shouldn’t be giving it away for free to any passing man…men shouldn’t be either to any passing woman.

  86. Gunner Q says:

    Joe @ 10:30 am:
    “My girl is a “catch” as well. NOT spoiled and entitled and very beautiful.”

    Strike one. Highly attractive, unmarried women are not spoiled/entitled only if her father keeps her under house arrest with no social media. You don’t sound like the type.

    “She flat out told us “I’m good. I just don’t need that”. She knows that too many guys are weak beta soyboys with 50-100K in college debt. She doesn’t want that. My girl is debt free. Why marry into such debt?”

    Strike two. She’s Strong&Independent and surrounded by creepy men with no money.

    “She is moving to another house soon.”

    Uh-oh. Please tell me she isn’t going to be living there unsupervised by you or a male relative. That would be the third strike that puts her on the cock carousel.

    Larry Kummer, Editor @ 12:19 pm:
    “While irrational in many ways, people are usually good at calculating incentives — although it often takes a few generations for people to realize the rules or circumstances have changed.

    The other thing mentioned above is the difference between behavior that is “rational for me” and “rationale for society.””

    Women destroy themselves AND society by taking the incentives to frivorce. NOBODY wins, not even briefly. Nobody is better off. This is not a prisoner’s dilemma. This is the frog and the scorpion.

  87. BillyS says:

    Gunner Q,

    It is even rationality for the women. My wife is likely to be in a world of financial hurt once my payments run out in a bit over a year. She was already telling my son she might have to work 2 jobs.

    She had planned on squeezing enough from me to make it until she got SS, but even that would not have left her well off. It is one time I am glad I am not as prepared for retirement. I may not even live that long, but I can still make money with my skills even then. She will not be able to do so.

    The incentives are an enabling sin in many ways, rather than being rational. Few women ever think rationally anyway, which causes men no amount of problems.

  88. I remembered the Bill Burr bit whenever something bad happens to a woman and we immediately blame the guy…why we’re not allowed to ask questions? Wouldn’t you have some questions?

    Society wants it both ways: it wants to liberate women from their traditional roles, but it acts like women can’t be held accountable for anything.

    If women aren’t accountable for what they do, then why not liberate children?

  89. BillyS says:

    I meant “It isn’t even rational for the woman” in my last post.

  90. Oscar says:

    @ Larry Kummer

    The other thing mentioned above is the difference between behavior that is “rational for me” and “rationale for society.”

    Women are increasingly miserable and dependent on psychiatric meds. Obviously, they’re not making decisions that are “rational for them”. Obviously, they’re following perverse incentives precisely because they are not rational.

    And, by the way, most men are also irrational, and follow perverse incentives.

  91. vfm7916 says:

    @billyS Agree. it’s possible to be rational in the short term without being rational in the long term. It’s all about context. Women nowadays tend not to think about the long term effects of anything, instead living for the emotional short term cycle.

    It’s still a rational decision for her to maximize her short term gains, then try for another cuck in the long run. A woman’s rational choices are different from men’s rational choices, based on their available array of actions.

  92. Paul says:

    Re: the graph

    Wow! That has lots of interesting information in it. Most of it seems to support red-pill thought.

    1. Women are on a desirability slide from their youth towards their old age
    2. Men are getting MORE desirable as they age (funnily enough I knew this from anecdotal evidence, where younger girls seems to fancy older guys).
    3. Men are more desirable the higher their education

    2+3 combined show women more prefer richer men, who are better providers.

    4. Black women are the least desirable (by a large margin!)
    5. Asian women are the most desirable (that also shows up from other data)
    6. White men are most desirable
    7. Men prefer their women a bit less smart than themselves
    8. Men above their 40s are most attractive
    9. Men reaching their 70s are still about as attractive as in their 40s, and more then in their 30s

    Given this, men should aim at younger, less educated Asian, Latin, or White women

  93. feeriker says:

    Did any of them know she was moving? I mean it’s one thing if she told a lot of them and they didn’t offer help.

    Let Chad help her move. Or her other “StrongEmpoweredWomen[TM]” girlfriends.

  94. Splashman says:

    I’m glad to see so many piling on Joe. Interesting that he chose this blog to blather about his kids and how proud he is of them. Apparently he doesn’t know he’s part of the problem.

  95. feeriker says:

    Splashman says:
    August 16, 2018 at 7:21 pm

    I don’t know if Joe is a DODO or not, but he sure is exemplifying their cartoonish stereotype.

  96. Jason says:

    Chad will be the guy that stains the new sheets on her freshly made bed while all the boxes that still have to be unpacked….an appeal will go out on the church announcements this Sunday asking for “men” to step up and help her….because we are a “church family” and we “help” each other…..

  97. earl says:

    Let Chad help her move. Or her other “StrongEmpoweredWomen[TM]” girlfriends.

    Or the father that created such an awesome daughter from his loins.

  98. Jason says:

    I helped a girl I liked moved once in San Francisco..I was in my late twenties and on these matters, didn’t know any better…..and moving in that city is pure evil……she said she a bunch of help……but of course I was the only one who showed up……..I played it cool, was a packhorse for the whole day..all day….didn’t gripe or complain, didn’t lose my cool…..when I was all done….was given that “friendship” hug of “you’re the best!” and she did give me a “tiny” reward. She rubbed her perfect braless breasts against me……mmmmmm………for a few seconds while she hugged me. I looked down her back, her shorts gave just that gap……girl was “commando” as well, I was tall enough to look straight down.

    She invites me over later for “drinks” and I when I showed up, she already had her “coolest neighbor ever” over as well. Yeah, it was Chad……I downed a drink or two and left. The place stank of sex, and I wasn’t gonna be a floater ruining her night or me looking like a heel…

    Lol, memories! Never help a woman move unless its your mother, a favorite spinster aunt or someone who cannot help themselves……..an old lady in your church with a walker and no family around…..discernment used now 😉

  99. feeriker says:

    This is the best thing I have heard all day! Women getting men to work for them for free is finally going away, and men have stopped groveling for the approval of worthless women.

    One of the most gratifying sights I’ve ever seen in my adult life was one that unfolded at a local restaurant a couple of years ago where my boss, some colleagues, and I were having a working dinner. At a nearby table sat a group of about eight or nine women ranging in age from roughly 25-35 (I assumed that they were probably co-workers meeting for dinner and drinks after work). Over the course of two hours they tried every trick in the book to get male attention (they ranged in appearance between 6 and 9 on the scale) but without any success, getting progressively drunker as time went on. Two of them finally started harrassing a lone young man sitting at the bar minding his own business watching a ballgame on the TV behind the bar. He clearly wasn’t interested in trolling for pussy.

    Well, that just was unacceptable to two drunken, horny, entitled skanks who probably were also getting thin in the billfold and needed a sucker to buy them another round of drinks. They started groping him, one of them rubbing her drunken face into his and slobbering “how come you don’t want any company? You gay or something?”

    Before the guy even had the chance to push her away, the FEMALE manager and the bartender, pretty much in unison, told both women that they were cut off and asked them to leave the restaurant. That sent their girlfriends at the table, by now pretty soused, into a rage. Unfortunately for them, an off-duty cop happened to be in the restaurant and wound up arresting the two women who were harrassing male patron at the bar and expelling all of their girlfriends from the restaurant. I recall looking around the restaurant as all of this was happening, and noticed that NOT ONE man even showed any interest in or concern for any of these women, let alone came to their aid. Quite an entertaining evening.

    Two things I concluded from this:

    1. Slutty SIWs are much less in demand than they like to think they are, and

    2. No American woman under the age of 75 should be allowed to consume alcohol in a public venue if she’s by herself or in the company of only other women.

  100. Jason,

    I lived in the San Francisco Bay Area for 30 years (as a married man). I thought the high straight-guy to straight girl ratio would make this the happy hunting ground for young men. Nope. Lots of strangeness in these young women. I hear lots of stories like yours from the the boys (now men) I led as a Scout leader.

    Lots of them have fled to saner pastures. As I have.

    I wonder how this will play out? Perhaps in 10 or 20 years there won’t be a songbird alive in the Bay Area, with cats in every other yard and on every other porch! They’ll be the least of the casualties.

  101. Minesweeper says:

    @vfm7916,”Women nowadays tend not to think about the long term effects of anything, instead living for the emotional short term cycle.It’s still a rational decision for her to maximize her short term gains, then try for another cuck in the long run. ”

    the women seem to be making long term bets based on their “emotional intelligence” which plans at most 15 mins ahead at times or to the end of their current emotional cycle which ever ends first :D, they obviously “feel” that divorce will somehow make them feel better, yet at the same time rationalise the destruction to all concerned as a non event even their own finances.

    it is very strange indeed to see women destroy themselves and their kids, im seeing alot of single women in their 30’s/40’s and they are permanently single. their chances of having kids is close to zero and even a husband is an outside chance now. its pretty sad really, to think they could have had kids and everything by now if they had made it a priority and that part of their life is gone, never to return.

    as for the career chicks freezing their eggs to wait for Mr Right to come alone, turns out its about a 3.3% success rate for live births v eggs harvested from eggs from women >35, even early 30’s is still pretty low in single figures. the only eggs that freeze well are from women in early 20’s\late teens.

    with the natural selection going on with women not breeding, I wonder if this line of thinking will be bred out. will it happen before or after the gov debt collapse.?

    amazing how feminism has destroyed things so fast.

  102. feeriker says:

    Never help a woman move unless its your mother, a favorite spinster aunt or someone who cannot help themselves……..an old lady in your church with a walker and no family around…..discernment used now 😉

    That’s the only sensible rule to follow. If they’re not in one of the categories you mention, text them the URL of a local moving company.

  103. honeycomb says:

    What a Be-Ute-ee-Full story Feeriker.

    On that note .. I think it’s time for some 12 year old scotch.

  104. Minesweeper says:

    @feeriker says:”One of the most gratifying sights I’ve ever seen in my adult life was one that unfolded at a local restaurant a couple of years ago where my boss, some colleagues, and I were having a working dinner… Unfortunately for them, an off-duty cop happened to be in the restaurant and wound up arresting the two women who were harrassing male patron at the bar and expelling all of their girlfriends from the restaurant. ”

    i would have paid to see that.

  105. feeriker says:

    i would have paid to see that.

    I only wish that it would happen more often (maybe it does; I don’t eat out very often anymore).

    Maybe as more men become red-pilled, VR sex becomes more mainstream, and women get more desperate for victims, tables full of drunken, lonely, contentious skanksters filling bars and restaurants on weekend nights will be workaday sights and events.

  106. Jason says:

    Larry. I lived in San Francisco from the summer of 1996 to early 2007. I was down in the SOMA until summer 1999….watched Pac Bell Park get built from the roof of my loft complex. I then moved to the Marina / Cow Hollow (Union / Laguna) in 1999.

    Crashed out hard in the end…wasn’t pretty. Something I waould not wish on anyone.

    It was a surreal place in the dot.com era and post 9/11. Heck, SF has always been kind-of a surreal place. There were a lot of good memories, but a lot of tears too…..and a very nasty addiction at the end of the stay.

    I saw pretty much that 80/20 thing there before there was a “name” for it….it was more like 90/10 there…….the rent was always high……everyone eats out and is slender (walking and lordy them hills! those hills!) but the magic is gone….and frankly have no interest in going there unless to a baseball game or perhaps a day visit….shopping……but its luster wore off me a long, long time ago

  107. Spike says:

    seventiesjason says:
    August 16, 2018 at 11:50 am
    Joe…no way would I ever help a “nice church girl” move. These men today who didn’t offer to help “your catch of a daughter” are actually doing the smart thing. Many are just tired of being rejected, or passed up, or labeled a “creep” for daring to talk to an “amazing catch” of a girl.
    ….Did exactly that, Jason! So I second this as very sound advice.

    As for the article, all that comes to mind is Joni Mitchell’s song,
    ”Don’t it always seem to go
    That you don’t know what you got
    Till it’s gone.
    They paved paradise
    Put up a parking lot….”

    As for what happens in the church, there has to be a realization among churchian feminists that their god is made in their image. He has ambiguous genitalia and an ambiguous male-female personality, an attribute of his (Shim’s?) character that they keep insisting should be there. My argument-stopper is always, “Why stop there? Why not put a goat’s head on him as well. Oh yeah, that’s been tried. You get baphomet…”
    He is God. From Genesis to Revelation, marriage is used as an analogy / allegory about Him, so it is reverent and sacred.
    His people – the People of God – need to be different.

  108. Minesweeper says:

    Jason, since you have mentioned it a few times and you seem a reasonable fellow, would you mind talking about how you got to be addicted ? Was it just recreational that got out of hand? And you were a christian at that point ? how did you reconcile the 2 ?

    just wondering, if its too difficult to talk about – then no worries and glad you made it out!

  109. Minesweeper says:

    **turns out its about a 3.3% success rate for live births per woman from eggs harvested from women >35*

    a 3.3% chance of success seems pretty low to stake your future family on it and these are women with post grad degrees in well paid corporate positions.

  110. honeycomb says:

    @ Minesweeper ..

    Jason opened up here .. https://v5k2c2.com/2018/01/30/the-overcoming-part-1/ .. at Boxers blog .. this is part 1 of 4

  111. earl says:

    Well, that just was unacceptable to two drunken, horny, entitled skanks who probably were also getting thin in the billfold and needed a sucker to buy them another round of drinks. They started groping him, one of them rubbing her drunken face into his and slobbering “how come you don’t want any company? You gay or something?”

    Reason #1 why male thirst needs to be conquered. Good for the young man to not fall for the Incubus’s tactics.

    I recall looking around the restaurant as all of this was happening, and noticed that NOT ONE man even showed any interest in or concern for any of these women, let alone came to their aid.

    Reason #2 why white knights need to be eradicated…women will only keep engaging in this behavior as long as they have their legion of white knights.

    It’s not 1980 anymore…women have proclaimed they don’t need men…so they don’t get men. Joe you move your daughter.

  112. earl says:

    And by Incubus I mean Succubus.

  113. Minesweeper says:

    @honeycomb, thanks !

  114. honeycomb says:

    I forgot ..

    Jason’s blog is here .. https://lifeinairstripone.wordpress.com

  115. earl says:

    Yeah, it was Chad

    Funny how the more immodest a gal is the easier it is for a Chad to find her. Almost like they have a bat signal or something.

  116. Jason says:

    Sure MS. I’ll keep it brief and spare the *fermented kittens* of how evil it got at the end:

    I was not a Christian until 2009. I was a cultural Anglican through my mothers sensibilites. I was always the teenager who was tall tall and awkward for my own age….I was the guy who always “broke it” or got fishing lines tangled…….wasn’t good at team sports…..was a good skater / skier though. I was painfully shy……

    I just didn’t become an addict. Though when I first tried cocaine in 1997 (age 27), I did know I was *hooked* :-).

    I always wanted to fit “in” and drugs became that route but it was false……and I had to lose everything and start over in 2007.

    I was a drinker in college, and afterward….but it wasn’t a problem…..you know, every few months…have a few too many……but as my twenties downshifted…..and I still ahd not ever had a gf, a date…..I began to get depressed. Alcohol and the drugs…cocaine in particular, started to slowly intensify in use.

    By the time 2003 rolled around I was a drug addict. It was the result of a broken spirit and that is the main problem with most addicts in these areas. Hence why I do support the Salvation Army’s Adult Rehab program……it was slow and ugly decline to the bottom. Really sad. I kept it hidden for a long time. Parents didn’t have a vclue when I flew back east to visit. I kept my hair freshly barbered. I bathed. I dressed in a style that worked for me. Facade.

    I grew upin a home with love. Encouragement. A home that had parents that liked each other. A home that raised me to know better.

  117. Jason,

    I have a little feel for what you went thru. My older brother was discharged from the Navy in 1968 and attended Berkeley. He didn’t end well. Radical politics, eastern cults, drugs. I think of it as the equivalent of getting hit by a car.

    Lots of money made out here by a few. Not so great for the rest. Lots of people just trying to get by in Oz.It gets more difficult each year.

    Why thousands of us are fleeing San Francisco
    https://fabiusmaximus.com/2018/07/01/why-leave-san-francisco/

  118. stickdude90 says:

    He told me several years ago that American women are spoiled and entitled. Smart boy for his age.

    Including, obviously, his own sister…

  119. Jason says:

    Larry, you don’t have to feel for me, nor did I ask for that. California is “just” home now. I like living out here. Thankful I got my life back….perhaps in the end, that is all I should expect at this point

  120. earl says:

    Why thousands of us are fleeing San Francisco

    Just don’t repeat the same mistakes in other states they did in California. Otherwise the leftist virus spreads.

  121. Rick says:

    I think some of you guy are going to far. I have no problem helping my brothers and sisters in the Lord. In fact, I’m commanded to. If a girl just honestly asked for help, I’d consider it an opportunity to be a witness of the love of Christ and hopefully be pure in my intent in not expecting something in return. If she is just taking advantage of me, that’s on her and she will be held accountable for it. I can’t let others dictate my walk with the Lord. Jesus fed and healed many people, and some of those same people yelled “crucify Him!” No slave is greater than his master.

    However, if she tried to use sex appeal to trick me into helping her I would decline because Proverbs is filled with warnings against those type of women. I think that’s a fair line to draw.

  122. honeycomb says:

    Here it says .. https://www.thecut.com/2016/06/best-age-to-freeze-your-eggs.html .. freezing by age 34 is the best path for success .. that’s science for ya ladies .. should’da got married young if you wanted kids .. ya big dummy!

  123. honeycomb says:

    Minesweeper .. my 1 of 3 posts got ate by the big cookie monster in the sky .. it had very high numbers of success and it was a number of years older than the other links I provided.

    It’s a scam .. to fleece already over-extended wimminz .. and give’em false hope.

  124. honeycomb says:

    https://nationalpost.com/news/world/i-was-sad-i-was-angry-i-was-ashamed-inside-the-struggle-to-conceive-with-frozen-eggs

    One last try to get this link out .. Here is the article I wanted ya to see in my lost post.

  125. Oscar says:

    @ Paul

    8. Men above their 40s are most attractive
    9. Men reaching their 70s are still about as attractive as in their 40s, and more then in their 30s

    They’re attractive to the aggregate of all women. Men in their 70s should fool themselves into thinking they’re attractive to the hotties in their 20s to which every man is attracted.

  126. honeycomb says:

    Minesweeper .. 3% is probably an accurate number ..

    Around the age of 35, women confront a “fertility cliff,” when the chances of becoming pregnant decline sharply as the eggs decrease in number and quality. By age 40, the average woman has a 5 percent chance of getting pregnant in any given month. By 45, it’s 1 percent.

    From article above.

  127. earl says:

    If a girl just honestly asked for help, I’d consider it an opportunity to be a witness of the love of Christ and hopefully be pure in my intent in not expecting something in return.

    That’s fine.

    It’s the entitlement mentality they have that rubs guys the wrong way…which is why I’m not sure if my question will ever get answered…did she ever ask any of the guys in church to help her? Or were they expected to know she was a damsel in distress?

  128. Splashman says:

    @Rick, you’re a babe in the woods.

  129. rdchemist says:

    @Rick
    “I think some of you guy are going to far. I have no problem helping my brothers and sisters in the Lord. In fact, I’m commanded to. If a girl just honestly asked for help, I’d consider it an opportunity to be a witness of the love of Christ and hopefully be pure in my intent in not expecting something in return. ”

    I can’t speak for the others, but my opinion is that she should be relying on her father and brother, as well as other male kin, to help her move. Family first.

    Now, if a woman was truly in a difficult spot, then I would probably lend a hand. But this isn’t one of those times.

  130. earl says:

    And quite frankly her own father seems to have this entitlement mentality when in reality he should be the first man in line to help her.

    Either that or he could finally start encouraging her that she should give up this ‘not going to get married’ idea if he doesn’t want to be moving her when he’s in his 80s.

  131. Minesweeper says:

    @honeycomb

    “And it gets worse with age, with 8.2 per cent of frozen eggs resulting in a baby for under-35s, and just 3.3 per cent for older women”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6037229/Women-freeze-eggs-TWENTIES-late-experts-warn.html

    @Jason, thanks for telling your story, phew ! Can I ask did you always “feel out of place” even at say 2yo or something, also did you ever get dental mercury fillings installed in your teeth, my life went bonkers after that and I’ve noticed that most addicts can relate to a period of a couple of years after they were placed that their personality changed. It can also happen with vaccines given as a toddler. The poisoning and contamination our medical system inflicts upon us is unreal.

  132. Jason says:

    Rick. There is nothing in how you answered that is wrong, or incorrect. It is what is expected. I personally in the world of #metoo and my age and experience with women…….I let them figure things out on their own. Yes, I would helop an old woman move in the church I am attending. One wrong move, one thing said wrong or even “perception” by the woman will land you accused, cold shouldered by the church or worse……

    If it was a group of people helping a young woman, and I was free……okay. Might consider. I use discernment now. Mike Pence everyone laughed at, and made fun of him on “late night TV shows” for his stances of not being alone in room with a woman……well, a lot of people are not laughing now.

    Now, Chad would get a pass. Any other guy in the 80% must be super careful.

    I am polite to women. I have shared a joke with here and there over the years…..I supervise women in my position and we work proper together. Other than that? They are not my problem, or concern. It may sound coild to you, but it is now a form of just self-protection for my own feelings and regard. When I leave them alone, and don’t get struck by their beauty, cuteness and antagonistic attitude by them of “look at what you will never get”

    That is when I get a sinful attiude. Best to leave them alone. Do what I can and be polite

  133. Rick says:

    @splashman
    Maybe. God will judge.

    @ rdchemist
    As Christians, we are one body. ” Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought to love one another.” My response assumes you’re a Christian. If that isn’t the case, than I understand what I’m saying is meaningless to you. No worries.

  134. Jason says:

    Minsweeper. I had a few mercury fillings in my teens (1980’s). I had them all replaced in the past few years as they deteriated. I don’t hold this as a probable theory in my case.

    5th grade for me (1981-1982) was a shift…….I saw cliques / peer groups forming and I was left out. I still don’t understand that kind of psychology at that age…not a professional here…….I remember my dad being out of work most of that year (recession) and my mother going back to work full time. I remember the only thing I looked forward to was “Weblos” (cub scouts internediate age group). I didn’t like my teacher that year…..I was a full on latchkey kid. Dad would be at the Union Hall most of the day waiting, looking for a job…..that is when it started….that out of touch / awkward thing….

  135. Rick says:

    @ Jason
    I understand everything you just said and agree. I too keep my distance from women.

    My 60 year old friend helped install some cabinets for a single lady in our church. He followed the Pence rule and asked me to come along and help. Nothing wrong with being wise and using discernment. She made us lunch and helped out a little as well.

  136. Rick says:

    @ Earl

    I completely understand where you are coming from. But as Christians, and this is an honest question, do we only help the people we deem deserve it?

    If she has entitlement issues, are we praying that the Lord will change her heart, and increase our love for her? Do I deserve the love and grace of God?

  137. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Joe, your daughter is not a “catch.”

    She would only be a “catch” if she were a devoted, loyal, submissive, respectful, appreciative helpmeet. What good is a beautiful young woman if she thinks she’s too good for men or marriage? She might attract some PUAs, but no decent man.

    It sounds like you’ve pedestalized your daughter, and she likes it up there.

  138. Minesweeper says:

    Jason, ahh ok, you got your fillings inserted after things went abit weird and you didnt notice any change in your physicality nor personality if so lucky you !

    i had a friend who moved from the arab states at 10 to england and felt excluded as well, he could never form friendships from that point onward. Seems to be a crucial time. I think we are at the same age, my 5th grade was 1981 also, male close friends are quite rare when you are older.

  139. Gunner Q says:

    Rick @ 10:36 pm:
    “I completely understand where you are coming from. But as Christians, and this is an honest question, do we only help the people we deem deserve it?”

    Christian charity requires a warm heart and a cold head. Many people need help. The ones that inflict harm upon themselves and will do it again once you’re gone? Abandon them.

    Here, women who refuse to submit (that’s what Christian marriage is for women, submission) should not have men on standby to help them out in the place of a husband. You would enable rebellion, not charity. Do not reward their evil. Instead, give those “I’m having too much fun to settle down” women what they want: a world with no unsexy men in it.

    Doing chores for single women who won’t marry is like giving money to a bum who won’t work. They’re playing you for a chump. You NEVER have a Christian obligation to help somebody just because you can.

    “Do I deserve the love and grace of God?”

    Yes, because you repented of your evil. That is the price God set. The unrepentant deserve neither God nor you.

  140. Luke says:

    honeycomb says:
    August 16, 2018 at 9:48 pm
    “Minesweeper .. 3% is probably an accurate number ..”
    “Around the age of 35, women confront a “fertility cliff,” when the chances of becoming pregnant decline sharply as the eggs decrease in number and quality. By age 40, the average woman has a 5 percent chance of getting pregnant in any given month. By 45, it’s 1 percent.”

    That’s not the only thing degrading in reproductive prospects for women at that age:

    Previously posted (written BY ME, so no copyright deletion appropriate):

    “Another related piece of information not widely known outside of fertility professionals is the life expectancy dropoff issue that aging would-be mothers face.

    “It turns out that there is a roughly even reduction in life expectancy in daughters with increasing maternal age (but not increasing paternal age, which affects health of children much less ) past starting at the latest by about age 34. Conceiving at age 44 [if you even could] would knock about a decade off the life of any little ones you’d want to put in dresses and put bows in their hair. And, it’s not a case of “they just die at 66 instead of 76, with everything the same before then”.

    Rather, they’d have about a 14% reduced life expectancy (more likely to die during every year they’re alive) and reduced vitality (health) all through life, from the very first day you hold them in your arms and you tell you that you love them. It is apparently universal for all women, can’t be tested for (other than with a calendar), and can’t be avoided. It is probably related to universal changes with advancing age in ova cell organelles called telomere shortening, from most human cells only having a certain number of times they can divide.

    This effect likely also applies to considerable extent to sons as well, but this is not as well understood. Further supporting these findings is what many researchers have consistently found about people who live really long lives (with good health and keeping their minds intact into advanced old age): they nearly always had very young mothers. (Health of cytoplasmic DNA, which comes exclusively from mothers and none from fathers, is apparently much of the reason for this.)”

  141. Anon says:

    feeriker,

    I recall looking around the restaurant as all of this was happening, and noticed that NOT ONE man even showed any interest in or concern for any of these women, let alone came to their aid.

    That is fantastic! Was this a very blue part of the country, where there were no cuckservatives around? Normally, there are always some cuckservatives around to whiteknight for such sluts.

    Ironically, deep-blue places are often where women are likely to be subjected to equal treatment relative to men, than in the red cuckservative parts of the country. The rare few places where judges order women (i.e. real XX women) to pay alimony to real XY men are actually in San Francisco and Marin.

  142. honeycomb says:

    @ Luke .. that’s very interesting (re: life exp with older mothers).

    I’ve never seen that info in print.

    Do you have a link to any published data?

  143. rdchemist says:

    @ Rick
    “As Christians, we are one body. ” Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought to love one another.” My response assumes you’re a Christian. If that isn’t the case, than I understand what I’m saying is meaningless to you. No worries.”

    For the record, I am Christian.

    And yes, this turned into a pile on with Joe.

    I will say that his advice on mate selection seems pretty solid: select for women that will work hard by putting yourselves in situations where she’ll need to role up her sleeves with you.

    It’s his statement about the men at church not offering to help her daughter move that is jumping out at us.

    First, as head of his houshold, Joe is responsible for his daughter, not the other men at church.

    Second, a lot of us probably helped a lot of women in our lives before we got wiser. We see that women started taking advantage of our evolutionary instincts to signal provider and protector status by helping them. This behavior is exploitative and it must stop.

    Third, the daughter is not a genuine woman in need. Rollo Tomassi writes a lot about the feminine imperative. He is not a Christian writer per se, but what he describes is real and too many Christian leaders are expecting men to bend a knee to it. This is idolatry.

    I hope this clears up some of the thinking here. There’s a fine line between genuine charity and enabling.

  144. Minesweeper says:

    @rdchemist, yeah Joe is a strange one, on one hand he is just comparing himself to the guys in the church today without noticing the landscape has utterly changed, and at the same time “she dont need no man” – until “she needs a mover\utility belt” ?

    he dosnt understand that women have poisoned the well and men are reacting appropriately. the fact neither of his kids wants a relationship should tell him the state of affairs.

    Luke, yeah, the largest thing determining a childs health is that of the mother and the age of the eggs, thats why women with the freshest eggs and healthy wombs look the most attractive !

    And we are naturally repelled by unfertile females – those with eggs expired or dying and those who wouldnt be able to gestiate a child successfully. Its really not rocket science but its almost revolutionary to think this nowadays.

  145. Oscar says:

    rdchemist,

    … women started taking advantage of our evolutionary instincts to signal provider and protector status by helping them.

    Joe’s daughter doesn’t even want a husband (provider and protector), so, what’s the point of signaling provider and protector status to her?

    Furthermore, Joe stated that “NOT ONE guy in her church group offered to help”. Note that Joe never stated that Princess ever asked any young man to help her. Joe simply expects young men to eagerly await the opportunity to jump through Princess’s hoops so she can pat them on the head.

  146. rdchemist says:

    @Oscar
    “Joe’s daughter doesn’t even want a husband (provider and protector), so, what’s the point of signaling provider and protector status to her?

    Furthermore, Joe stated that “NOT ONE guy in her church group offered to help”. Note that Joe never stated that Princess ever asked any young man to help her. Joe simply expects young men to eagerly await the opportunity to jump through Princess’s hoops so she can pat them on the head.”

    Yes, I note that.

    Rick seemed to use the example of Joe’s daughter to advance a broader principle about how Christians should behave. This is what I was trying to address with the my point about women taking advantage of a man’s evolutionary instincts and why so many men are putting their foot down.

    But you’re right. It isn’t a mystery why no men are offering to help Joe’s daughter.

  147. Anonymous Reader says:

    Careful readers of the study I linked to will notice that women with advanced college degrees don’t increase their attractiveness to men. This data neatly explodes a big part of the “standard model” that is pushed on girls in K – 12, especially in high school: “School, then more school, then career, THEN marriage”. That standard model / standard track is a contributing factor in the average age at first marriage for women being 27 years.

    In a very different, rather dry and academic way, that study is just as big a bomb as Lori Anderson’s simple statement about what men prefer. The feminist delusion that men are attracted to the same things women are has driven a lot of young women away from marrying in their early 20’s, with much pain and suffering as a result.

    Again, the graph that MInesweeper graciously got posted up thread tells one heck of a story that every young woman needs to see. Pair it with the female fertility curve & it pretty much says it all.

  148. Jason says:

    I don’t see a vast number of men in their forties and older with twenty-something women…….and the ones you hear about are men with means (a grip of money) or Hollywood…..Sean Penn and the like. But an 49 year-old engineer or bank manager, or supervisor on a construction yard isn’t for the most part hooking up with, dating or marrying the 25 year old girl. It’s not happening

  149. Anonymous Reader says:

    The tl;dr of that study:

    Sheryl “Lean In” Sandberg and all the feminist hen-flocks that push her ideas are all wrong.
    Wrong in many ways. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

    Wrong.

  150. Minesweeper says:

    @Anonymous Reader says:” Careful readers of the study I linked to will notice that women with advanced college degrees don’t increase their attractiveness to men. ”

    in fact it decreases it !!!! And I can confirm, women who have done advanced degree’s are both uneconomic, much older and generally not attractive at all. Is it age? debt? that they think they are so awesome now ?

    “Again, the graph that MInesweeper graciously got posted up thread tells one heck of a story that every young woman needs to see. Pair it with the female fertility curve & it pretty much says it all.”

    I also think the fertility graphs are manipulated to give women false hopes\preserve the narrative, the amount of friends and family I know who were interfile even in their 20’s is way higher than the stats would suggest. I suspect outright lying is going on as politically they don’t want to know that 50% of women by 30 are infertile. There are women in their late teens on IVF. So it can happen early.

    I knew 1 gorgeous female friend who was infertile by 18, 5 other friends mid 20’s male+female, other family members by mid 30’s. As I keep telling my son, female fertility can be vanishingly short, it exists for them only in high school and with HPV rolling out seems some girls are going into menopause at 15.

  151. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Anonymous Reader: The feminist delusion that men are attracted to the same things women are …

    Many feminists know that men aren’t attracted to the same things that women are. But they think that men should be attracted to the same things that women are.

    After patriarchy is destroyed and men are cleansed of toxic masculinity, men will want women who are older, more mature, more educated, and more sexually experienced than the man. Men will want women who are strong, sassy, opinionated, and independent.

    It’s the fault of men — and their toxic masculinity — if they fail to be sexually attracted to such women.

  152. honeycomb says:

    RPL sez ..
    Many feminists know that men aren’t attracted to the same things that women are. But they think that men should be attracted to the same things that women are.

    Just like the redefinition of CURVY -vs- FATTY .. if you dang menz would just not be so visual we could get past this FATTY thing .. puke

    ..
    “Men prefer naturally curvy women .. not fatties!” … You can’t fit nature ladies!

  153. Hank Flanders says:

    rdchemist,

    I can’t speak for the others, but my opinion is that she should be relying on her father and brother, as well as other male kin, to help her move. Family first.

    Joe’s daughter probably lives several states away. We already know Joe’s son doesn’t even live in the US, so he’s not an option either.

  154. Minesweeper says:

    @honeycomb , please I was eating when I saw that ! bit of warning next time…

    I seem to be the only one of my christian cohorts who finds obese women stomach churning revolting. And boy was I condemned for it.One guy who was really into that, was later found with some guys dick in his mouth in a public receptacle.

    So go figure. Finding obese women disgusting = bad, finding obese women sexually attractive =good (not an issue if you like to suck the odd dick in a toilet).

  155. Dalrock says:

    @Joe

    Both of my kids have no interest in marriage….

    My girl is a “catch” as well. NOT spoiled and entitled and very beautiful. But she can read the landscape too. She flat out told us “I’m good. I just don’t need that”. She knows that too many guys are weak beta soyboys with 50-100K in college debt. She doesn’t want that. My girl is debt free. Why marry into such debt?
    She is moving to another house soon. NOT ONE guy in her church group offered to help. In my day in the 80’s I helped plenty of women move…

    I guess now guys are too busy drinking lattes or playing video games to “help” (scope them out and seek a relationship).
    Honestly, I blame the Church for a lot of this. It seems like they are a part of creating bets males.

    Others have already pointed out the problem with “My daughter laughs at the pathetic soy boys in our church. Why aren’t they falling over themselves to help her move”?

    I would add another observation. If you are right, if even moderately decent prospective husbands are as rare as rubies, this doesn’t make her a catch. It means your daughter is competing with other young women for an extremely small pool. If there are almost no worthy men, I would think your goal as a Christian father would be helping her understand this reality and working with her to help her best compete against the women out there who are trying to steal her man*.

    But perhaps the real issue is that she desires to remain single for life, and you are proud of this. This is as the Apostle Paul tells us a noble choice. But if remaining single is her (and your) will, why do you sneer at men who aren’t courting her to your liking?

    *The same problem exists for sons as well, but the clock is somewhat less brutal to men looking to marry than women looking to marry. Moreover, you aren’t complaining that Christian women are failing to pursue your son for a marriage he has stated he has no interest in.

  156. Hank Flanders says:

    Joe

    My girl is a “catch” as well. NOT spoiled and entitled and very beautiful. But she can read the landscape too. She flat out told us “I’m good. I just don’t need that”. She knows that too many guys are weak beta soyboys with 50-100K in college debt. She doesn’t want that.

    Pretty or even just thin women have essentially limitless options for men in the US and maybe other western countries as well. If she’s how you describe, then she probably has at least a hundred guys lined up on facebook and instagram who would marry her tomorrow if she wanted. Within a few months, she could have literally thousands of prospects if she used dating websites to put herself out there. (She may have thousands of prospects already). Statistically, some of those men would not be effeminate or heavily in debt. If she were so inclined to get married to a good man, it would be easy for her to do so, so you or she can’t rightly blame the landscape. Have women EVER had an easier time of landing their pick of men than American women currently have?

  157. rdchemist says:

    @Hank Flanders
    “Joe’s daughter probably lives several states away. We already know Joe’s son doesn’t even live in the US, so he’s not an option either.”

    I did consider this and suggest that she can pay a moving company. According to Joe, she owns her own home and is debt free which would suggest that she is financially solvent enough and can manage money well enough to use this option.

    Unless daddy Joe is paying for everything for the little princess. Then “ENTITLED” barely begins to describe the situation.

  158. Hank Flanders says:

    Dalrock

    I would add another observation. If you are right, if even moderately decent prospective husbands are as rare as rubies, this doesn’t make her a catch. It means your daughter is competing with other young women for an extremely small pool. If there are almost no worthy men, I would think your goal as a Christian father would be helping her understand this reality and working with her to help her best compete against the women out there who are trying to steal her man*.

    Of course, as you probably know, though, it’s statistically improbable that decent prospective husbands are rare. You’ve written extensively about how thirsty men are.

    Men intentionally going their own way and stories like feeriker’s at August 16, 2018 at 7:54 pm while interesting are nevertheless, the anomalies. Reactions to women’s pictures and posts on social media, the enormous volume of messages women receive on dating sites (and probably social media, too), and the ratio of men to women in bars and clubs tell the full story of the status of the market.

  159. Hank…and this trend has been with us awhile now…I worked in the nightclub scene over ten-and-half years ago. In the 1990’s it was way more women than men too for the most part…hence why PUA / Game “probably” did have a higher success rate back then.

  160. earl says:

    Have women EVER had an easier time of landing their pick of men than American women currently have?

    They never had it easier…however the attitude they are carrying…namely disrespecting men indiscrimately or flat out proclaiming they aren’t getting married willingly (while daddy still expects men to signal husbandry attributes to her) is the reason why it’s a difficult mountain for them to climb.

    Put it this way…I could understand the plight of a woman who is trying to find a husband and has bad luck…I don’t give my sympathy to those who are willingly giving husbandly material the middle finger.

  161. Hank Flanders says:

    seventiesjason,

    Yeah, well, we already know what the increase in obesity, particularly among women, has done to the dating market in general, but now that I think about it, it probably also has an effect on ratios in the clubs of men to women. That is, bigger women are probably just less likely to want to go out at all, increasing the number of men to women there. Naturally, the women who are there, if they’re decent looking, get more attention and are increasingly pickier, just like in the dating and marriage markets in general.

  162. thedeti says:

    @ feeriker:

    Well, that just was unacceptable to two drunken, horny, entitled skanks who probably were also getting thin in the billfold and needed a sucker to buy them another round of drinks. They started groping him, one of them rubbing her drunken face into his and slobbering “how come you don’t want any company? You gay or something?”

    twenty years ago, the guy would have taken home one or both of them and had some fun, and probably not seen them again.

    Today, he’s smart to avoid them and not even so much as look at them. If he had responded even a little, they would have screamed “Rape!” or “you pig!” If he had been dumb enough to be alone with one of them he’d probably be facing a rape charge right now due to her having “regret sex”.

  163. Boxer says:

    Hank Flanders sez:

    Pretty or even just thin women have essentially limitless options for men in the US and maybe other western countries as well.

    Thin, pretty women have sex options. That doesn’t entail they have options for marriage, which is an implied standard for this Daughter of Joe.

    If she’s how you describe, then she probably has at least a hundred guys lined up on facebook and instagram who would marry her tomorrow if she wanted.

    Absolutely wrong. I, and all my friends, would have sex with her. None of us would marry her, no matter what her other qualities.

    Within a few months, she could have literally thousands of prospects if she used dating websites to put herself out there. (She may have thousands of prospects already).

    The men on Tinder are almost all guys like me. Joe’s kid doesn’t want to be fucked and chucked. She’d rather stay single. So, what’s the problem?

    Statistically, some of those men would not be effeminate or heavily in debt. If she were so inclined to get married to a good man, it would be easy for her to do so, so you or she can’t rightly blame the landscape. Have women EVER had an easier time of landing their pick of men than American women currently have?

    I have zero debt, with savings in the mid six figures. I’m not Brad Pitt, but I’m 6’3″ and not a total fatass. I don’t need to get married, and definitely don’t want to give my money and my time at the gym away.

    You’ve completely misread the social landscape, my man. Women have far fewer options today than they had under a healthy patriarchal system. Our mothers taught us the nature of wimminz, and that’s a lesson most of us haven’t ignored.

    Thank the skanks.

    Boxer

  164. Anon says:

    I notice that Joe ran away after his cartoonish daughter-boosting was called out. What a cuckservative.

    Plus, it does not seem that he has a problem if women manipulate his son by getting him to help them move for free.

  165. Hank…

    Okay……I see your logic on this……but still I will have to say plenty of very large younger women go to nightclubs, bars, night-scene. Plenty.

    Come on…you remember (or do you?) going out as a younger buck….the “hot” chick with her very large friend who “has a great personality” and she’s the one who guards the hot girl from the 80% of guys. You remember……yes you do…you’re talking to that hot girl at the club, the show, the bar at a hopping restaurant and things seem to be going well….and suddenly her “larger than life quasimoto friend” is there telling her “no, no…we’re going home, you promised we would ring the bell tonight”

    Also, hate to say it….but PLENTY…..TONS of thirsty dudes out there who will take anything…..saw it first hand. All the time. Night is running down, or crowd is thinning and average dude is suddenly all over Mama Cass…..and of course he’ll tall his friends he scored a “9” and that game “always” works……

    Here we are almost twenty years post-game / PUA / guy-motivational-speakers-dating-coaches and even the larger than average woman is expecting Jude Law.

    Who knows! I sure don’t…..but the ante has been way upped since those times and frankly I would have zero advice for a young guy….Christian or not

  166. Nick Mgtow says:

    earl says:
    August 16, 2018 at 9:50 pm
    If a girl just honestly asked for help, I’d consider it an opportunity to be a witness of the love of Christ and hopefully be pure in my intent in not expecting something in return.

    That’s fine.

    It’s the entitlement mentality they have that rubs guys the wrong way…which is why I’m not sure if my question will ever get answered…did she ever ask any of the guys in church to help her? Or were they expected to know she was a damsel in distress?

    Well, as we can read earlier: “none of the guys of her church offered”. She expected to be offered help. She is a Godly woman, and the men in her church are there to be her beehive, her network of available free labor.

    Yeah, I said free, because if she had asked, men would have come. And, if she had offered to cook lunch for the men, more would have accepted.

    But those women expect servant men without even the pat on the back. Because that’s it. As Ester Vilar says it, the man wants to believe he is necessary, but as Dalrock stated, the man wants to feel that he is appreciated and respected.

    Plus, nothing tells us that she isn’t an atrocios posh toward the men of her church.

  167. earl says:

    And, if she had offered to cook lunch for the men, more would have accepted.

    Heck even when some of my buddies asked for help to move…they offered pizza and beer as incentive. How many women do that?

  168. thedeti says:

    @ Joe:

    seventiesjason says:
    August 16, 2018 at 11:50 am
    Joe…no way would I ever help a “nice church girl” move…
    ***********************************************************
    And you replied:

    What can I say? It worked for me. But I was a pretty good judge of character. I did stay far away from the nut jobs. There were plenty of nutty chicks back then too. But I was always good at reading people.

    Kindly bear with me while i walk you through a few things.

    You’ve been married 30 years from what you said earlier. That means you’re around 55-60 years old, and got married back in 1988 to a woman you likely met around 1984-86.

    That would put you at roughly age 25 in 1988, meaning you were born in 1963 or thereabouts. For your birthdate, we’ll call it a range of 1958 to 1965. (I am almost a contemporary of yours. I am 50. I have been married 22 years, most of which was an utter trainwreck. Fortunately I found a Red Pill crane and put things back on the rails. But i digress.)

    You were coming of age in the late 1970s and early 1980s, before widespread hookup culture, date rape, third wave feminism, and political correctness. Also, it was still pretty common to raise and marinate men in “be nice, be kind, and someday someone will love you just for who you are”, and for this to work many times. It was also common for a lot of the women you were going to church with to actually believe and walk out traditional sexual morality (mostly). Or, they were having sex with a boyfriend or two, and married the second, third or fourth man they had ever had sex with. Many religious women then were going into marriages with Ns no higher than 3.

    It was pretty common for a lot of boys to get good training and instruction in female sexual nature and they weren’t necessarily being lied to about their own natures. Lots of boys just picked it all up on their own. And a lot of boys had some physical attractiveness going for them and had mostly positive experiences with girls and young women.

    Or, maybe you just got lucky and found a unicorn.

    The point is that your children live in a much, much different sexual and relationship landscape than you and i came up in. Assuming your daughter has lived out traditional Christian sexual morality (an assumption I’m not necessarily willing to make), almost all of her contemporaries decidedly have not. If she’s not putting out, the attractive men she’s attracted to and would want for marriage are most assuredly having sex with your daughter’s friends (many of whom attend church with her – AND YOU).

    I am going to tell you right now, Joe: Most of the young single women in your church are having sex. They’re not virgins, not by any stretch of the imagination. Most of them are sporting double digit Ns, and are having sex with men you don’t know and have never seen. They certainly don’t attend your church.

    And the young single men in your church? Most of them ARE NOT having sex, or they’ve had sex maybe once or twice. Because they’re not masculine. Or girls don’t perceive them as such. They’re not attractive. And they are this way because YOU made them this way. They are this way because your church made them this way. They are this way because you’ve all lied to them and told them how “attractive” they are and what great guys they are. Guess what, Joe: They’re not attractive. They’re not masculine.

    The guys you describe as latte sipping video game playing simps or Cheetos dusted Mountain Dew swillers? While they aren’t attractive either, they’ve more or less figured out the score. They know women aren’t attracted to them and they’ve rightly assessed most women (including your daughter) aren’t worth it. Juice ain’t worth the squeeze. Too much work, too little return on investment of time/money/labor/resources. The paltry rewards aren’t worth the enormous risks.

    When you and i were playing this game, we didn’t know all the risks. And the rewards could still be pretty good, if you had something worth offering and could set down a boundary worth a damn. You could be less than top 20% attractive and still get a wife who was worth half a damn.

    Those days are gone.

    I took risks i didn’t even know I’d taken. I didn’t discover them (or learn how to manage them) until i was almost 15 years in. I came within a hair’s breadth of divorce. I’m better now. It is better now. But it is better now only because the boundaries that should have been there in the mid 90s are now there and are being defended and fortified when necessary; the techniques to manage the relationships and the risks are in place, and because i am now the man i should have been when i was 26.

    Most men look at me and say “No f’n way am i doing what deti did, no way am i going through what deti went through”. And i don’t blame them one bit. I cannot recommend marriage now.

    That’s one of the reasons I’m here. I hold myself out as an example, good or bad, for whatever it’s worth. I don’t want any other men (including my son) to make the mistakes i made. I am here to help them as much as i can.

    It’s different now for our sons than it was for us, Joe.

  169. honeycomb says:

    thedeti sez ..
    It’s different now for our sons than it was for us, Joe.

    Likewise for us (1). Our dads where just as behind the power-curve.

    The difference is the constraints / lib-eer-a-shun for th wimminz was immediate. Our instruction for our young men is lagging by a factor of a hundred years (2).

    (1) I’m in the same boat age wise as Joe and you.
    (2) A slight ex-age-er-a-shun

  170. thedeti says:

    Honeycomb:

    Women have always known the score since time immemorial. Women know what men want and what sexually attracts them. Women get good, sound instruction on this from before puberty. It’s men who are still reading to their sons from Korean War-era playbooks. (for you kids who think history started with the BJ Clinton administration, the Korean war was roughly 1948-1953. Things actually happened and men and women were actually dating and having sex before BJ Clinton got his, well, BJ.)

  171. Hank Flanders says:

    Boxer,

    In general, I disagree. These men are not just lusting for these women. They’re in love with them (or think they are). Sure, some of the men may just be looking for sex, but a lot of them are just lonely in general, want someone in their lives, and are willing to risk getting married regardless of the risks. I believe that’s a statistical certainty just based on the sheer volumes of guys who are looking.

    Also, women still have more options than in generations past and don’t have to compete with each other as much, due to the obesity epidemic and lack of the draft. I think the fact that women aren’t getting married earlier in life as opposed to generations past is pretty much entirely of their own choosing, due to feminism’s effects on them, their own hypergamy and expectations, and the fact THEY want to have fun, not because the men do.

  172. thedeti says:

    Boxer, Aug 17, 12:06 pm:

    Hank Flanders is correct that Daughter of Joe could find a hundred men willing to marry her tomorrow. The problem is that DoJoe isn’t sexually attracted to any of those men. Because those 100 men aren’t sexually attractive to any women. Those 100 men are the pathetic soyboys Joe mentioned who wouldn’t help his daughter move. They’d marry her tomorrow, but she wouldn’t marry any of them because (1) she’s not sexually attracted to them, and (2) none of them would ever have the stones to so much as ask her out, much less try to have sex with her.

    You and Hank move in completely different social circles so it’s not surprising you see it so differently.

  173. honeycomb says:

    thedeti sez ..
    Women have always known the score since time immemorial.

    Agreed .. I’ve said so for 30 years or so.

    Had I not gotten great instruction on th wimminz as a “yut” (my cousin vinnie reference) .. by a non-family male .. I would’ve made the same mistake my brothers made. I wouldn’t have had a clue about the nature of th wimminz.

    My life has been soooooo different because of his advice. For the better.

  174. earl says:

    It’s pretty simple without any paternal or patriarchal correction of the nature of wimminz…they choose the Chads until the realize at 29 they are down to their last 3 eggs and need financial provision. Sure they could still choose it after patriarchal correction…but she’d be in willing rebellion versus just naturally choosing it because her nature tends to be rebellious.

    Guys like Joe should have been teaching his daughter differently.

  175. Hank Flanders says:

    You’re totally right, seventiesjason. There are still women there but maybe just not as many as there used to be. In addition, there are even less good looking / thin ones and even less good looking / thin ones who are there without a guy.

  176. Nick Mgtow says:

    Hank Flanders is correct that Daughter of Joe could find a hundred men willing to marry her tomorrow. The problem is that DoJoe isn’t sexually attracted to any of those men.

    Ah, the Holy vagina tingle.

    What X isn’t asking is, is she worth the 100 men that she would turn down?

    And, if she’d not provide them anything in exchange, why would they provide her anything in exchange?

    She doesn’t owe any of those men marriage, but she can cook for them, have sex with them, or pay them. Or, even ask for free help. But even asking is beneath her, as it would put her in a situation where she can hear the word “no”.

    It would lower her Highness status to a commoner status, and that she can’t afford.

    The problem doesn’t come from her. It comes from the men: the men aren’t attractive enough, the men aren’t gentlemen enough.

    Yawn.

  177. Hank Flanders says:

    Nick Mgtow,

    It’s the entitlement mentality they have that rubs guys the wrong way…which is why I’m not sure if my question will ever get answered…did she ever ask any of the guys in church to help her? Or were they expected to know she was a damsel in distress?

    She probably posted about it on facebook and kind of asked without really asking.

  178. thedeti says:

    Don Draper: What do women want?

    Roger Sterling: Who cares?

    And strangely enough, it is this attitude that helps make men more attractive.

  179. honeycomb says:

    She only has to find ONE beta provider at her desired / appointed time.

    Not a hundred. Not even 10. Just 1 ….. sucker.

    As thedeti said .. Boxer and Hank Flanders are both correct. She can actually optimize her portfolio by doing both. Most of these beta churchian menz won’t ask any questions and forgive her at that appointed time.

    As Katie ..

  180. Nick Mgtow says:

    “Hank Flanders, I imagine her Facebook message as “I everyone, I’d like to help you know I’m moving out Saturday afternoon at 2:00 ”

    Then, she’d hope that men would throw their schedule out for her to be told that they’re not worthy of her, or even of her gratitude. That she is strong, independent, and doesn’t need a man.

  181. I at one time held the view of “well, she’s not into me, but needs my help but she might have some really cool friends she will introduce me to”

    Wrong.

    Women like this never let their male orbiters into their female circle of friends…..if they do, she has already told so many baseless untruths about you so they will not be interested…….women like this need the emotional tampons, the packhorse and the guy they “can always depend on” for everything except intimacy.

    Learned that the hard way too

  182. Nick Mgtow says:

    thedeti on August 17, 2018 at 1:45 pm
    Don Draper: What do women want?

    Roger Sterling: Who cares?

    And strangely enough, it is this attitude that helps make men more attractive.

    Does it make men more attractive, or doesn’t it rather make the women bitter that they don’t have an endless supply of orbiters?

  183. honeycomb says:

    Jason sez ..
    Women like this never let their male orbiters into their female circle of friends…..if they do, she has already told so many baseless untruths about you so they will not be interested…….women like this need the emotional tampons, the packhorse and the guy they “can always depend on” for everything except intimacy.

    Th Wimminz are the biggest cock-blockers around. And, Th Wimminz can be the biggest promoters of so-called friends (aka power brokers) around .. (this is a ego boost for these wimminz) ..

    And, then there is the Envy side of Th Wimminz … That’s called Pre-Selection … and that’s a powerful tingle generator. If used correctly it can produce extremely productive results. Hypothetically .. heh.

  184. earl says:

    or doesn’t it rather make the women bitter that they don’t have an endless supply of orbiters?

    Who cares.

    They didn’t want husbands…they shouldn’t have orbiters who display some husbandry attributes. Perhaps they shouldn’t have killed the golden goose of marriage for them…turns out it was a pretty good deal for them.

  185. Joe says:

    Anon says:
    August 17, 2018 at 12:06 pm
    I notice that Joe ran away after his cartoonish daughter-boosting was called out. What a cuckservative.

    Plus, it does not seem that he has a problem if women manipulate his son by getting him to help them move for free.
    **********************************
    No, I do though have a life and don’t spent a bunch of time on line.

    I am proud of my kids, both of them. Here’s some more cartoons: my daughter counsels young single women who are dating divorced men to see what the Bible actually says about that subject and END that relationship. A guy at the Church talks to the divorced guy to show him scripture and seek reconciliation with their ex wife and offering counselling to that end. I have seen divorced couples reunite and then remarry. Praise God for those restored relationships.

    I could not be more proud of my girl that she defends what God says about marriage. She grew up seeing Biblical truth defended in our home. Now she does it.

    And my son isn’t manipulated into anything. He is though naturally generous with his time, talents and money. At 27 he is financially independent and does what he wants. (No inheritance, he earned all of it). At times, that involves helping people. He is letting his sister and her room-mate live in his house here in the US for free. He just doesn’t need the money, and knows that sister is grateful for a nice house to live in.

    And to the ones who decided to slam my daughter never having met her, you should be ashamed of yourself for such course talk. I hope you find healing for your anger and bitterness.

  186. Boxer says:

    Dear Joe:

    And to the ones who decided to slam my daughter never having met her, you should be ashamed of yourself for such course talk. I hope you find healing for your anger and bitterness.

    I don’t see anyone “slamming” your daughter (if she wanted to indulge in such things, I assume she’d just open a tinder account.) Problem is, we’ve seen people like you before. The fathers who get on here and talk about their AMAZING daughters are dime-a-dozen on Dalrock.

    If she were as eligible as you imply, then she’d lower her standards to a realistic level. She’d find a nerdy or simpy young brother, and make something of him — like her grandmothers did. The fact that she is “too good” for every single man at your house of prostitution (aka immoral christian church) says much more about you and your family, than it does about all those boys you’re castigating.

    Regards,

    Boxer

  187. earl says:

    And to the ones who decided to slam my daughter never having met her, you should be ashamed of yourself for such course talk. I hope you find healing for your anger and bitterness.

    I hope you help your daughter move into her new house and don’t expect other men to do it…since she is still your responsibility and most likely will be given she’s not keen on marriage herself.

  188. thedeti says:

    Joe:

    If your daughter is not interested in marriage and has no use for the men in her church or whom she has regular contact, why would she expect any of those men to help her move?

    Those men sense her disdain and denigration. That’s probably why they avoid her. Plus, if your daughter is not interested in marriage (and these men can tell this), why would you expect them to help her move for the sole purpose of getting to know her and ask her out, as you claim you did and as you suggested would be a potential motive for men helping her move? If she isn’t interested in them or in marriage anyway as you said she isn’t, why do you expect these men to put forth effort that everyone knows won’t bear fruit?

    If you daughter is not interested in marriage and openly disdains the men she knows, then she is not a catch. While she might be physically beautiful, her heart leaves much to be desired.

    Why does your daughter minister to women dating divorced men about what the Bible says about marriage, when she’s never been married? Is your daughter in a position to counsel women about marriage when she’s never been married and herself avoids marriage?

  189. thedeti says:

    Boxer:

    Joe’s daughter isn’t eligible. Joe says she is avoiding marriage. But naturally, it’s the men’s fault that she’s avoiding marriage.

    DoJoe openly disdains the men she knows and attends church with. She disdains them as weak soyboys and for being in debt. Her father disdains them as latte sipping videogamers. And none of those weak debt laden soyboys would offer to help her move, despite the fact that DoJoe has made clear she hates them and has no use for them, as does her father. Joe expects men that both he and DoJoe hate and openly denigrate to serve as her beta orbiters and help her move.

    But Joe would have us believe that his daughter is a “catch”. I’m sure she’s “beautiful, beautiful, beautiful”.

    Sorry Joe. A woman who hates the men she knows isn’t a catch. And that’s not men’s fault.

  190. Swanny River says:

    Deti, good luck with training Joe. You write with so much more understanding, grace and humility than he does. He provokes and discourages, you invite sobriety and encouragement.

  191. earl says:

    And what deti is saying…is the attitude of a LOT of women in the church who are ‘great catches’…but for some reason just don’t want to get married. I’ve heard it straight from their mouths…they want control, they want to do their own thing, and they want to be left alone.

    Now why would any reasonable man see that as any incentive to try and wife them up? This isn’t the movies where a man jumps through hoops to break down the 10 foot walls around her heart. Often a man does this in real life the walls stay there and she ends up breaking up with him anyway.

  192. Novaseeker says:

    It’s different now for our sons than it was for us, Joe.

    Yup — it’s really night and day different. The pace of change has been so breathtaking due to technology that it goes over most oldbie (parental unit) heads — in part because oldbies don’t use the tech the same way that younglings do, because we didn’t grow up with it and therefore weren’t formed by it.

  193. Oscar says:

    @ Joe

    And to the ones who decided to slam my daughter never having met her, you should be ashamed of yourself for such course talk. I hope you find healing for your anger and bitterness.

    Your daughter isn’t the problem. You’re the problem.

  194. thedeti says:

    Nova:

    Yes. Tech really has shaped people under age 30.

    In my work I often represent people of that age group. The idea of returning a phone call is completely alien to them. They want me to communicate with them via text or email. They will not speak to me on the telephone.

    The idea of a face to face meeting is alien to them. “can’t we just do this by email? Why do you want me to look at X/see Y/Go to place Z and observe it?”

    For women, it’s choice addiction. Social media and online dating gives them access to thousands of men all over their geographical regions – men they would never otherwise have met.

    For men, it’s porn. If they can’t date (and many of them just are not attractive enough), online porn is so ubiquitous, cheap, and high quality, that many men will readily resort to it for sexual release. Porn is low effort, low investment, immediate reward. It’s easier, less effort required, and it never nuke rejects you or tells all its friends all your embarrassing stories or the crap you did with/to it.

    Even for the women of my vintage (age 48-53 or so), they met men through friends or work, from within 20 miles or so of their home base. And those were the available men for dating; and she picked men from among that group. A much, much smaller group of men.

    For men of my vintage, porn was not at your fingertips and it wasnt’ free. You had to buy it at a store. You had to subscribe to one of the men’s adult magazines. You had to rent it at the video store, take it home, watch it on your VCR, and then return it. All that required some money, transportation, and a little planning.

  195. honeycomb says:

    Oscar sez ..
    Your daughter isn’t the problem. You’re the problem.

    Yes .. the Parents are the problem. Most are blue bill. And dads in particular blue pill with their own daughters.

    Joe isn’t the only dad who’s done this.

    Also .. by 8 years old iirc .. most behavior is programmed. Even if he is red pill now .. I doubt he was red pill back then .. plus .. if she has lo ked in values based on her dad .. I bet he was the one that doomed those men .. 1) by his behavior around his princess daughter and 2) he said something negative about them. Or both.

    Anyway .. I’m not placing blame at Joe’s feet. He is the finally authority on raising his kids.

    But .. he is responsible for this outcome whether he likes it or not. Those are his grand-kids he’s not going to play with now.

  196. Badman says:

    @deti: “It’s different now for our sons…”

    I appreciated the insight you had in this post. As one of those “sons” (late 20s/single/bigcity) I finally realized the error of my BluePill hopes and dreams earlier this year. It’s amazing how the older generation, including my father (who’s somewhat “alpha”) and especially my mom and aunts, have zero pertinent advice about the current dating market. To borrow from a favorite “feminist” analogy, it’s like they’re giving a fish advice on how to ride a bicycle.

    I’ve gone out on dozens of dates (mostly first/second dates) with women from my church, and until ~8 months ago I was the ultimate “beta”. Paying for dates, sending birthday cards, refusing to physically escalate… it’s what I was taught “women want”, after all. Needless to say, each of those women was more interested in partying/career/being “independent”. In fact, I swear one of them was Daughter of Joe (No, she didn’t ask me to help her move, and I don’t read minds).

    More recently, I’ve focused more on myself (lifting/hobbies/confidence), and some of the churchgoing women have been more responsive to me on dates and otherwise. But now it’s hard for me to “un-see” the flaws I’ve learned about here: many are 30+, probably not virgins, having already given their “best” away for free, as Rollo puts it. Coupled with the dangers of modern marriage, I’m not willing to enter into a high risk/low reward relationship with them.

    Perhaps this is still some residual BluePill in me talking, but I’m holding out for a young, virgin, submissive Christian woman – a “unicorn” if you will. But I’m under no delusions about how rare that kind of woman is today, and I’m prepared to remain single for the foreseeable future. After all, I’ve been single, celibate and generally happy for 29 years, and can continue for another 29 if need be.

  197. earl says:

    He is the finally authority on raising his kids.

    He is not however an authority on making men move his daughter’s stuff into her new home. Men both he and his daughter hate.

  198. Lost Patrol says:

    Stay the course Badman.

    Good call to steer clear of the 30+ year old women. How many of them can possibly be young, virgin, submissive Christian women of the sort you say you’re interested in? This just does not compute. The women younger than yourself are a better bet for your criteria, though these days you are asking a lot, as you, and all young men should be. The women are asking for the sun, the moon, and the stars; men should hold out for better offerings as well.

    It’s good that you’re now prepared to let it ride rather than rush the process. The doomscape of servant-leadership under the all-seeing eye of a good church lady will always be out there waiting for you, so no hurry.

  199. thedeti says:

    Hello Badman.

    Thanks for the compliment. I hope to help. Your situation being in a major metro is different from my own as I’ve never lived in a major metro. But the people and the principles at play are the same.

    Remember that almost all of the women you described and whom you’ve taken out on dates, the ones from your church, have done things with other men they’d probably resist doing with you. Remember also that most of those women don’t see sexual attraction in you so much as they see provider material. You’re not going on dates; you’re auditioning for the role of Her Boyfriend/Husband. You’re being assessed, evaluated and put through your paces.

    What you think is a fun few hours where you eat food and drink booze you paid for and listen to her drone on about things you dont’ really care about, is her taking mental notes on everything about you from your hairstyle to the condition of your teeth to your clothes to your job to your car, to your manner of speaking, to your confidence, and to the shine on your shoes. She is noting, evaluating, assessing, and screening absolutely EVERY detail of your interactions with her.

    You think she does that with Chad? You better believe she doesn’t.

    I’d suggest that if you are going to continue going on dates, that you wait and ask out women who are showing you some interest first. For a first date you take them out for drinks, and spend no more than 90 minutes. You don’t buy her more than 2 drinks. Or go walking somewhere. Do not spend money on these women. Don’t spend a lot of time on these women either. Not until they show more interest and take some initiative on their own parts and show independent interest in you.

  200. earl says:

    I’d suggest that if you are going to continue going on dates, that you wait and ask out women who are showing you some interest first. For a first date you take them out for drinks, and spend no more than 90 minutes. You don’t buy her more than 2 drinks. Or go walking somewhere. Do not spend money on these women. Don’t spend a lot of time on these women either. Not until they show more interest and take some initiative on their own parts and show independent interest in you.

    Very good advice…this is the similar path I’ve taken. Usually first dates are walks/coffee/bowling or something that doesn’t cost a lot. If they are going to break up with you anyway after a date or two…best to not have invested a lot.

  201. Badman says:

    I agree, and that’s already what I’ve been doing recently. No more “beta” dates – I referenced those as past experiences that I learned not to do anymore.

    Per Dalrock’s most recent post and your comments, I’m also moving away from “pursuing” women, and instead seeing which women are drawn to me as I live the life I want to live. If those women aren’t yet up to my standard (as evidenced by the 30+/careerists I mentioned), then I’ll pass and continue focusing on myself and my interests.

  202. Sharkly says:

    Badman says: Perhaps this is still some residual BluePill in me talking, but I’m holding out for a young, virgin, submissive Christian woman – a “unicorn” if you will.
    No, that is right. Don’t settle for a Whore, especially if you have kept yourself pure for God and your future mate. I married a whore and have been given nothing but intentional grief. Tonight on the phone after my supervised speakerphone conversation with my sons, my wife told me that the reason she won’t reconcile is because I want her to submit. Seriously, she wants 100% control, and has been granted that by temporary court order, which I still have not been given an opportunity to address in court. I ended up telling her that “if there is no submission, there is no marriage.” Then I hung up on her, before the bitch could speak. That is the only way I’ve ever gotten the last word with that whore. The only way! I literally have to hang up on the bitch to get the last word. I’ve tried leaving before in the past and shutting the door, but she opens the door and screams shit after me as I’m getting in my car. The spoiled brat has never not gotten the last word. I partly blame her parents. I’ll bet if you asked her father he thinks his whore baby was and still is a “real catch”. I also blame the churches that don’t have the testicles to say a single contrary word to my frivorcing wife, even while it still might do some good. They’re too busy preaching how my wife is only a responder incapable of sinning by herself. Tell that to Hosea. He married a whore too.

  203. Sharkly says:

    Regarding helping single ladies in the church move:
    I did that one time. It was a lot of hard work. We got nothing for it, but the opportunity to be around her. LOL Anyhow, a few days later at a Bible study, the girl said that some of her stuff was missing and she said that somebody from the church, that had been helping, had stolen it from her. A few weeks later I asked her if she had ever figured out who stole her stuff. She sheepishly admitted she was just disorganized, and had found all her stuff later. She apparently had no intention of ever apologizing to the men who had helped her, that she had then publically accused of being thieves. That was the last time I helped somebody move who wasn’t a relative.

  204. Hank Flanders says:

    thedeti

    You and Hank move in completely different social circles so it’s not surprising you see it so differently.

    Then I want to roll in Boxer’s circles. I think I could handle academia…I’m not so sure about Mormonism…Seriously, though, thanks for understanding, and you’re absolutely right about my circles. I live in the South, which used to be known for having lots of beautiful women. Now, in contrast, the South is known for having the highest rates of obesity of any region in the country.

  205. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Joe: my daughter counsels young single women who are dating divorced men to see what the Bible actually says about that subject and END that relationship.

    Does your church counsel single men to END relationships with divorced single moms?

    A guy at the Church talks to the divorced guy to show him scripture and seek reconciliation with their ex wife and offering counseling to that end.

    Does your church tell divorced women to seek reconciliation with their ex-husbands?

    I see your church blaming divorced men, despite 70% of divorces being filed by the women. And I see your daughter badmouthing the divorced men, protecting women from them. But does anyone at your church place any blame or restrictions on the divorced women?

  206. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Sharkly: Regarding helping single ladies in the church move: I did that one time. It was a lot of hard work. We got nothing for it, but the opportunity to be around her

    It’s so much easier helping men move. Once, I helped a guy friend move. Once, I helped a Christian woman friend move. Both single and childless.

    The guy friend rented a U Haul. He drove me to his apartment. We moved liked machines, little talk, quickly piling all his stuff into the U Haul. Took 4 hours. He thanked me, and bought me dinner afterwards.

    The woman friend had bought a van. I never saw it. We spent an entire night going through her papers. She had many stacks of papers strewn throughout her apartment. Old magazines, unopened letters, notices, newspaper clippings, whatever caught her fancy over the last 15 or so years. She wanted to separate the papers into piles. What to keep, what to throw out.

    She gave me instructions, then ignored them. Instead, she insisted on examining every item of paper, every news clipping from 10 years ago that she’d planned to read, but never did, wondering if she should put it in the move box, to read at her new place, or if she should throw it. Every item of paper had to be scrutinized.

    I discovered a check in one unopend envelop, for over $1,000. It was nearly10 years old, and long since expired. She bitched and moaned when I showed it to her.

    In 4 hours we moved ALL my guy friend’s stuff. In 4 hours, I accomplished NOTHING at my woman friend’s place.

  207. Nick Mgtow says:

    RP Latecomer… as you’re saying it, I remember, a woman, not from my church, but a former colleague… I understood why I was the only of her friends or colleague that showed up to help her move out. Even that I showed up and was the only one there, she was very obnoxious to me.

    Today, having outgrown the influence that my toxic christian mother had on my self esteem and the shit I tolerate, I’d have dropped anything that I have in my hand and left her there to deal with it!

    I swear it, there is that chick that I met at the dance, single mother or divorced, and she is, each time we chat since last July, reminding me that she moves out next weekend. But without even asking for help.

    Just throwing the bait. You brought my memory of my colleague back, and, if a pretty, tall woman like my dance partner can’t find someone to help her, then maybe she’s like my former colleague too.

    i was contemplating the idea of helping her if she asked for my help and offered something in exchange, but, even if she did, I won’t do it now!

  208. earl says:

    Today, having outgrown the influence that my toxic christian mother had on my self esteem and the shit I tolerate, I’d have dropped anything that I have in my hand and left her there to deal with it!

    Goes back to my general advice: Choose the mother of your children, wisely.

  209. earl says:

    I swear it, there is that chick that I met at the dance, single mother or divorced, and she is, each time we chat since last July, reminding me that she moves out next weekend. But without even asking for help.

    Asking requires humility…something your typical single mother or divorced woman decided to not have a long time ago.

    Ask and you shall recieve, seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened to you. It requires effort and humility.

  210. JRob says:

    Nick M,
    I come from a background of moving every 2-3 years for 5 decades, as a preface.

    If asked to help someone move, I tell them sure. Then I dictate terms.

    -one day only.
    -I do not pack anything or move small loose items. I ONLY move furniture and packed boxes and the like. If I come to a piece with little items on it, I rake them out of the way.
    -lunch will be provided.

    Funny, I’ve only moved male friends the last decade or.so.

  211. RICanuck says:

    @ Joe

    And to the ones who decided to slam my daughter never having met her, you should be ashamed of yourself for such course (sic) talk. I hope you find healing for your anger and bitterness.

    Yes, Joe, some commenters here are coarse. Your use of the word course is correct, because you are being schooled.

  212. JRob says:

    OT but more popcorn-inducing viewing pleasure:

    https://www.christianpost.com/news/assemblies-of-god-elects-first-ever-female-general-secretary-223352/

    If you can make it through this, see how one has to self-contradict to come to a nebulous interpretation of wherever-this-came-from:

    https://ag.org/Beliefs/Topics-Index/Feminism-and-Appropriate-Roles-for-Women

    I understand nobody here really gives a shit. Posted for entertainment value.

  213. Nick Mgtow says:

    earl says:
    August 18, 2018 at 12:38 pm

    “Goes back to my general advice: Choose the mother of your children, wisely.”

    First, we teach too much to our church members to forgive to anyone that says they’re sorry. Forgive and forgo their past actions. That makes some of us easy targets for narcissists or predators.

    My father was an easy target too. He didn’t have a father… That doesn’t absolves him of all his passivity… He shares the blame of choosing her and letting her create chaos and wreack havoc in our lives, of standing by like Adam stood by and let Eve ruin everything!

    I blame him for not putting his foot down! For acting like Pilate. I knew he disagreed with my mother a lot of times, but he stayed silent. […]

    I put a video in the following link. From 10 minutes mark, this talk is amazing. Prager U should take some lessons about men’s responsibilities!

  214. Nick Mgtow says:

    It’s refreshing to read such thing after reading about fathers saying that no man was good enough for their daughter..

    https://www.theodysseyonline.com/gentlemen-prefer-ladies

  215. earl says:

    @ Nick…

    Keep in mind while what she wrote there is good advice she also wrote this.

    I Never Want To Have Kids, And No, It’s Not ‘Just A Phase’

    https://www.theodysseyonline.com/dont-want-kids-girl

    She’s free to choose that if she wants…however she better not do the disservice of getting married or trying to convince a guy to get married then. If she’s upfront about how she doesn’t want children…she doesn’t get marriage either.

    It’s the attitude here.

  216. earl says:

    Also note this story…it claims this statement is ‘misogynistic’.

    ‘The more you act like a lady, the more he’ll act like a gentleman.’

    https://www.kare11.com/article/news/misogynistic-quote-above-hisd-middle-school-lockers-goes-viral/285-585244043

    Of course the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the sisters of Shelia came out claiming that it absolved men of responsibility…however I can see it as any act trying to tell women to act feminine is ‘misogynistic’.

  217. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    That Odyssey site has an interesting article about romcom cliches: https://www.theodysseyonline.com/rom-com-cliche

    I especially like No. 9: The bad guy is actually the love of their life — and he’ll change, all for YOU!

  218. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    An excerpt from the article on “Don’t Want Kids”:

    Children are beautiful gifts to the parents that have them. They represent progress with great potential to become anything they want to be when they grow up.

    This is typical of our soft, modern, feminized, Western worldview. That children have the “potential to become anything they want to be.”

    How many people, even in the West, become what they want to be? How normal has it been throughout history for children to become whatever they wanted to be?

    Westerners, especially women, are so entitled. And so outraged when their wishes aren’t fulfilled. No wonder Western civilization is collapsing.

  219. Luke says:

    I wrote and posted this several years back, but it’s as apt here as anywhere. I will note in passing that until I had children of my own, that I was fully involved in raising from Day One, that I had no idea how much meaning they add, and was missing from my life. (I have a biological child that was given up for blind adoption 2 weeks after birth, and spent 10 years in a household with stepchildren. Neither came close.)

    “I read an essay some years ago that was written by a longtime hospice nurse. She noted that people, when confronting their deaths, fell largely into one of three groups. One group was people with extremely deep religious faiths; we’re talking people that knew with certainty by early high school that they wanted to be nuns or priests. When they confronted death, while still now wanting to die, their faith comforted them. The second group was people who’d had children (presumably, of their own blood, and gotten to raise them). They, too, while not wanting to die, found much meaning, and thus great comfort, in having descendants that would live on after them. (Children are what I call my ticket to the future, where at least part of me gets to go there.) The third category of people, when confronting death, had neither major faith nor having had offspring to make it all having had a point. For them, death was absolutely terrifying, a horrifying loss with nothing redeeming about it whatsoever.”

  220. Anonymous Reader says:

    Joe
    And to the ones who decided to slam my daughter never having met her, you should be ashamed of yourself for such course talk.

    Well, Joe, here’s where your arrogance trips you up. Because while no man here has met your exact daughter, there are men here who have “met your daughter”. Entitled careerists are pretty common, even in churches. The churchgoing ones just talk a different line of entitlement.

    Write back when she gets close to 29 and desperation starts to set in; that’s when she’ll find that the men she was too good for aren’t on the market anymore.

    “Where are all the good men? Back in your 20’s where you left them”.

    I hope you find healing for your anger and bitterness.

    I hope you come to terms with the fact you probably won’t ever have grandchildren to visit.

  221. Luke says:

    I haven’t read the links on the “chicks should be ladies ‘cuz they’ll score better dudes” articles. Do they include anything about how ladies always keep their legs closed before marriage, and always open (to their husbands only) thereafter? I doubt that as much as I doubt there be would any reference to Proverbs 31.

  222. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    I haven’t read the links on the “chicks should be ladies ‘cuz they’ll score better dudes” articles. Do they include anything about how ladies always keep their legs closed before marriage, and always open (to their husbands only) thereafter?

    No, the article is very trite. Pro-feminist, pro-equality, pro-strong women.

    It attempts to hold women up to some very mild standards. For instance, if a man buys you flowers, don’t complain that it’s not the kind you like. That advice is actually offered in the article.

    Also, if a man shows up in a nice suit, to take you to a nice place, don’t show up in a sweat suit.

    The article sets a very low bar. Most female readers probably already meet those very low standards, so there’s no danger of offending too many women.

  223. Anonymous Reader says:

    RPL
    The article sets a very low bar. Most female readers probably already meet those very low standards,

    You underestimate the degree of entitlement in some social circles now. Any bar is “too high” if Teh Patriarchy set it. Also note how even attempting to apply the most trifling of standards, requiring the slightest degree of agency from women sends other feminists screeching off into the air like a pack of flying monkeys?

    Not an accident.

    “I have a vagina, so no rules for me” — Saint Elsa of Frozen

  224. Sharkly says:

    Nick Mgtow,
    I watched your video clip. She is partly right, but also still partly wrong. She seems to believe that men and women are complimentary equals, and thus they should have equal say in things Etc.

    I disagree. God created Adam first and created eve to serve him. God created Adam in the image and glory of God. Women are the glory of man. God made men the head of women. God wants husbands to rule over their households well. Women are not permitted to speak in the assembly of believers. Nor are they permitted to pray with their heads uncovered like men. Women are not permitted to exercise authority over men in the church, but men are required to exercise authority over the women. Men and woman are not equal. God refers to the woman as the weaker vessel.
    Things will not be right until all of that is held to be self evident by all, not just us Red Pilled men.
    Men and women are equal heirs of the grace of God. But men are placed above women by God, who created us both, and knows the place He created us for. Every woman who marries a man, has married up. But Satan has now blinded our eyes to God’s design.

  225. honeycomb says:

    Well .. LOL .. here comes more cover for th wimminz ..

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/02/women-freeze-eggs-allow-men-get-ahead-careers/

    It’s .. you guessed it .. a MANs Fault .. that th wimminz are freezing their eggs.

    Summary .. Men are ready to support kids and marriage so th wimminz have no choice but freeze their eggs.

  226. honeycomb says:

    WHOOPS .. (are NOT) .. fixed it

    ..
    ..

    Well .. LOL .. here comes more cover for th wimminz ..

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/02/women-freeze-eggs-allow-men-get-ahead-careers/

    It’s .. you guessed it .. a MANs Fault .. that th wimminz are freezing their eggs.

    Summary .. Men are NOT ready to support kids and marriage so th wimminz have no choice but freeze their eggs.

  227. Minesweeper says:

    @honeycombm”The conference also heard that divorce settlements in the US increasingly include payments for egg freezing.”

    nice, along with 100 hrs waxing per month, mani peds for the dogs, 10k flowers per month, student load paid off etc… cat sanctuary……

    its going to come out that as he defrauded her from having children, when she gets her frozen eggs fertilised by whoever the ex of should be liable for all its costs till 25, thats only reasonable surly.

  228. honeycomb says:

    Minsweeper sez ..
    its going to come out that as he defrauded her from having children, when she gets her frozen eggs fertilised by whoever the ex of should be liable for all its costs till 25, thats only reasonable surly.

    I think I recall case law already on fertilized eggs. I believe .. I could be mis-recalling .. that if someone uses your sperm to fertilize an egg .. even with proper documents stating you are not responsible for child up-keep / costs (of said fertilized egg / child) .. that the state can void that contract (for her to retroactively gain access to your up-keep money) .. or .. the state could subragate the cost of the child to the state thru you (the donor) if she uses any state money to raise the child.

    So .. your suggestion is not a stretch at all.

    (1) I’m to lazy to find the cases I think I recall.

  229. Minesweeper says:

    @honeycomb, I think there actually was a case where she claimed he defrauded her from children and so he should be liable for freezing and child maintenance even if its not his as that was the expectation going into marriage, she would have kids and he would be liable to pay for them.

    not sure if she won it all the way or not.

    there is a (Jewish I think) sperm donor in NY who gives his seed away for free in starbucks (hopefully in a non plastic polluting container) and beforehand he gets them to sign a waiver for no child support, anyway, he has done this dozens of times so far and so now has dozens of child maintenance court dates pending for full backdated child support for each child, so even though half the women have gone back on their agreement, he is still doing this donoring much to the concern of his (current) wife. He loves it he said in the article and can’t stop himself, some form of mental addiction maybe ??

    I mean the gov like to distribute the costs of child rearing to single men who pay taxes anyway, so why not go after them directly (as well). I can honestly see the day where it wouldnt be a rarity for a court to assign a single guy at random to be liable for the full costs of something somewhere – so he does his full bit for society. Its gone so crazy now, its not a stretch. The bachelor tax – its happened before.

    It really is at the stage whereby you dont get any benefit from paying tax, so why bother ?

  230. Minesweeper says:

    @honeycomb, as for the telegraph article, well can you show me a single mainstream article where women are actually criticised for anything ? even the merest hint leads to uncontrollable outrage. debate in parliament with foot stamping and a million strong pussy march on both sides of the atlantic.

    sweet fu*k all for the 10k+ little white girls raped repeatedly in the UK though thanks to cultural enrichment.

    cuz that would be racist and only white men can be guilty of crime in the UK.

  231. earl says:

    ‘It’s .. you guessed it .. a MANs Fault .. that th wimminz are freezing their eggs.’

    Women are freezing their eggs in increasing numbers because men fear becoming a father will harm their career, according to new research.

    That projection is rich. In reality…which sex is out there is afraid to become a parent because it will harm their career?

    It’s amazing the choices women willingly make to blame men for.

  232. earl says:

    If a lot of these women were honest (and to be fair some are)…they’d just say they don’t want marriage and they don’t want kids. Quit blaming men for your own intenal attitudes.

  233. honeycomb says:

    @Minesweeper ..
    Its gone so crazy now, its not a stretch. The bachelor tax – its happened before.

    It really is at the stage whereby you dont get any benefit from paying tax, so why bother ?

    ..
    ..
    If we do this (as a country) .. I’m expatting the very next day ..

    I’ll leave on a jet plane 🛫 .. I’ve done it once. I just need to start off-shoring my retirement funds when I see the writin’-on-da-wall.

    I just posted at GunnerQ’s place about what would return men to marriage .. but it won’t happen.

    What you’ve posted is more likely than use returning to contract law and property rights.

    https://gunnerq.com/2018/08/18/only-the-government-can-give-you-a-marriage/comment-page-1/#comment-586

  234. honeycomb says:

    Earl sez ..
    Part I
    ‘It’s .. you guessed it .. a MANs Fault .. that th wimminz are freezing their eggs.’

    Women are freezing their eggs in increasing numbers because men fear becoming a father will harm their career, according to new research.

    That projection is rich. In reality…which sex is out there is afraid to become a parent because it will harm their career?

    It’s amazing the choices women willingly make to blame men for.

    Which is false .. men have for many years built a career with a young family .. it used to be the norm. Projection for sure don’t-cha-know.

    Part II
    If a lot of these women were honest (and to be fair some are)…they’d just say they don’t want marriage and they don’t want kids. Quit blaming men for your own intenal attitudes.

    Didn’t we just have a long thread about Joe and his daughter .. lol.

  235. earl says:

    ‘Didn’t we just have a long thread about Joe and his daughter .. lol.’

    We certainly did…however I don’t like being blamed for the fact his daughter hates men and think all are soy boys. Next she’ll say men are beneath her because they lift weights, like sports, and construct things.

  236. Jason says:

    Several California representatives in our state assembly over the years have proposed a “man tax”
    because most men commit crimes, men father children and “run off” and men’s healtcare cost more than womens bc of alcohol and bad lifestyle choices….

    It will happen and this tax won’t be a paltry few cents on every purchase. It will be used to fund the family court system and create a “pool” for single moms who were all abandoned and abused by a no good man.

    The lawyers will get their cut of course, the state agencies will eat through at like locusts at a harvest and it will continue to incentivize single motherhood….and a lot of men will indeed leave….but no worries, your red state will adapt it as well in the guise of “protecting women”

  237. honeycomb says:

    jason sez ..
    but no worries, your red state will adapt it as well in the guise of “protecting women”

    ..
    ..

    It won’t be (at) the state (level) I’m worried about .. It’s the FEDERAL gubermint I’m most concerned .. (aka DENMARK .. etc).

    If it was a state (matter) you could vote with your feet (and move to another state). Just like the framers intended (i.e. states rights and a small federal gov; i.e. anti-federalists).

    I’ll be aged out of the work-force soon .. I hope .. LORD willing.

    If not .. then I will identify as a widower (or a womminz .. heh) when the time comes.

  238. John James R. says:

    TheDeti,

    “Joe expects men that both he and DoJoe hate and openly denigrate to serve as her beta orbiters and help her move.”

    Such a perfect metaphor for society in general right now. Both the trad-con and the female openly hate and insult the majority of males while expecting them to keep laboring on for, not only no current incentive, but no possibility of any future benefit either.

  239. Matatan says:

    @Joe,
    Not that it hasn’t been said in a hundred different ways already by others on this thread, but man, you are one arrogant piece of work, and you and your like are a big part of the problem. Disparaging the men in the life of your daughter as worthy only to provide free labour, then get offended when they don’t volunteer for that deal. Seriously, how delusional can you be? And how disrespectful of your fellow MAN can you be? At least the good Lord seems to be taking care that your venom, and it is YOUR venom, NOT your daughter’s, will not be passed on to any grandchildren.
    Regards from a DOSO

  240. PokeSalad says:

    But Joe would have us believe that his daughter is a “catch”. I’m sure she’s “beautiful, beautiful, beautiful”.

    Sorry Joe. A woman who hates the men she knows isn’t a catch. And that’s not men’s fault.

    Like that old gag, when a couple of guys see a dimepiece walking down the street..one guys says, “Yeah, but you know…there’s one guy out there who knows she’s a b*tch.”

  241. Paul says:

    @JRob

    The webpage of the article has other similar articles just below it:

    https://www.christianpost.com/news/pope-francis-appoints-3-women-doctrinal-body-historic-move-catholic-church-223309

    Pope Francis Appoints 3 Women to Major Doctrinal Body in ‘Historic’ Move for Catholic Church

    https://www.christianpost.com/news/church-of-england-appoints-first-female-bishop-of-london-210832

    Church of England Appoints First Female Bishop of London

    So there you have it, 3 historic moves in Pentecostal, RC, and Anglican churches where women are appointed to very visible leadership roles, all within a year.

  242. Paul says:

    @JRob

    And the link to the Assemblies of God official website on Feminism and Women’s roles has:

    “The Bible teaches mutual Christian submission and respect.”

    Followed by

    “God-given gender differences are to be protected and celebrated. God has clearly communicated that neither gender is spiritually or socially superior.”

    Of course what these gender differences are is not expressed.

    And how is this biblically grounded?

    “The Assemblies of God will continue to give women opportunities to be copartners in the work of the Kingdom. “God does not show favoritism” (Acts 10:34, NIV).”

    God does not show favoritism.,,, I have NEVER before seen that verse used to defend egalitarianism/Christian feminism.

    Better look at the WHOLE sentence:

    Acts 10:34,35 (NIV):
    34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.

    This tells something COMPLETELY different! Taking the context into account (the story of how Peter went over to the house of Cornelius, where the Holy Spirit was also given to the gentiles), Peter is talking here about favoritism TOWARDS THE JEWISH NATION with respect to salvation. It has NOTHING to do with the roles of men and women.

    I’m sorry I to have to say this, but unfortunately this kind of ripping parts of bible verses out of context and applying them to completely incomparable situations is something quite common in Pentecostal circles.

    Mind you that this article is an official statement of the Assemblies of God collection of churches, which comprise over 384,000 ministers in 212 countries, and 67.9 million adherents, the fourth largest denomination in the world.

  243. JRob says:

    @Paul
    Exactly. Total twisting of Scripture as is the norm. Women are given the car keys to drive us over a cliff. The Western church is in its death throes.
    Meanwhile we have Catholic vs Protestant and Game discussions whilst Rome burns around us. Rome is burning and we’re arguing because Marxist feminism has destroyed proper male/female roles and the very building blocks of society, marriage and the nuclear family.

  244. JRob says:

    I’m sorry I to have to say this, but unfortunately this kind of ripping parts of bible verses out of context and applying them to completely incomparable situations is something quite common in Pentecostal circles.

    This. Researching the movement from its origin will reveal the shaky foundation of its very existence. Also check into the Dake study Bible and Dake the lunatic himself.

  245. JRob says:

    https://www.gty.org/library/strangefire/messages

    Listen to Conrad Mbewe’s message, if nothing else.

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