The only woke man in the room.

In Manhood Restored, Pastor Matt Chandler explains that toxic masculinity comes from male shame:

…men are prone to shame. If anyone knew how often men, without question, think they’re not good enough, think they’re failures, think they’ll never measure up, think they cannot win, it would blow their mind. This is one of the great ways the Enemy destroys biblical masculinity, because all we see is our failures, and most of us have in the back of our minds our dad telling us we’re never going to measure up.

What happens when you experience shame? Men always respond to shame either with withdrawal or aggression. Let a man feel shame, he’s going to withdraw and pout or get angry and lash out. And who gets lashed out on the most? Usually wives and children. So do you want to act like a man?

Don’t be silly. Stand firm in the faith.

Later in the sermon Chandler suggests that the modern Christian Father’s Day tradition of disrespecting fathers is one of the causes of Christian toxic masculinity:

Have you ever noticed that on Mother’s Day…? Mother’s Day sermons are always like, “Moms, you guys are so great. Where would we be without you guys? The whole world would fall apart if moms weren’t being moms.” Dads always get a different message. They’re like, “What’s wrong with you? Why are you the way you are? We don’t have any flowers for you today. Good God! Act like a man.” We always get this kind of drive-by shaming.

Yet at the same time Chandler seems to justify the practice.  In the sentences that immediately follow, he appears to be saying that denigrating fathers on the day set aside to honor them is part of God’s good plan:

Sometimes in the Bible… Like, moms, have you ever exasperated your children to anger? Any mom go, “No, no, no. I have exasperated…” Why didn’t the Bible tell you guys not to exasperate your kids? It’s on us. It’s “Fathers, don’t do this.” He creates distinction, and it’s not something that is unequal or unjust; it’s God’s good design.

My guess is that while these two messages are contradictory, both are intended.  This would fit with his closing prayer (emphasis mine):

I pray that even as we sing and consider and think that you would bring to our minds places where we have sinned against wife or daughter or children or others and there might be a holy compulsion in us, for the first time, to play the man through confession and repentance.

I thank you that there is nothing behind us that has more power than the cross of Christ and no current struggle you cannot cover, heal, break, put back together, and make whole. I pray for my brothers in here…I wish not to shame them in any way…who internally are broken little boys. I ask for your healing power in their hearts for their joy, for the good of their wives and children, for the good of this church. Help us. We need you. Thank you that you have empowered us to step in and walk in what you have commanded us to walk in. It’s for your beautiful name we pray all these things, amen.

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142 Responses to The only woke man in the room.

  1. Trust says:

    So, when he says men are shamed, they lash out at women and children, which is translated as wives. Who does he think does the most shaming? Most husband-shaming is done by the party he claims as the victim of the man’s response to it.

    Male confidence is attractive to a woman, do tearing it down will leave her dissatisfied with the results, either way he responds. Another teachable moment wasted because of fear of women.

  2. Gage says:

    And who heaps shame upon shame on men today? Churches. Right along with everyone else. And men who don’t bend or bow to the constant shaming efforts are scorned even moreso and called “broken little boys” or sexist, misogynist, tyrants, etc ad nauseam.
    Mad Dog would probably wet himself if the men in his church actually got tired of this constant beratement and confronted him. Too bad it wont happen.

  3. Pingback: The only woke man in the room. | @the_arv

  4. Cane Caldo says:

    “Next up on Evangelism Today, Matt Chandler brings us the kitchen-bitch version of Driscoll’s Man-Up sermon; right after this message from our sponsor, Servant Leader Tech llc.

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    She wears the pants, but she’s not a les,
    Do-do-do-do! Do what she says!

    And now, back to Matt Chandler…

    [D: Hilarious!]

  5. Dalrock says:

    @Cane Caldo

    Next up on Evangelism Today, Matt Chandler brings us the kitchen-bitch version of Driscoll’s Man-Up sermon

    Chandler definitely is the effeminate version of Driscoll, both aping the father figures who so obviously humiliated them.

    Chandler:

    If you grew up with a dad who was like, “Quit crying! Suck it up! Be a man! Men don’t act like that. Quit acting like your sister,”

    Our dads aren’t evil men. They had given themselves over to a picture of masculinity that’s very, very popular and yet wrong.

    …men are prone to shame. If anyone knew how often men, without question, think they’re not good enough, think they’re failures, think they’ll never measure up, think they cannot win… all we see is our failures… in the back of our minds our dad telling us we’re never going to measure up.

    …there might be a holy compulsion in us, for the first time, to play the man… who internally are broken little boys.

    Driscoll:

    You change now, little boy. You change right now. You shut up. You put your pants on. You get a job. You grow up and maybe one day, you can love a woman. It’s for men, not for boys.

  6. Flat Lander says:

    Take away the token references to God and the Bible and what’s left is pure Michael Kimmel’s and The Good Men Project’s hand wringing.
    The tyrant father, the son who never measured up, the victimized saintly wahmen, it’s all there.

  7. SnapperTrx says:

    I pray that even as we sing and consider and think that you would bring to our minds places where we have sinned against wife or daughter or children or others and there might be a holy compulsion in us, for the first time, to play the man through confession and repentance.

    Translate: If any of you have ever used or thought about using your God given authority instead of groveling or letting your kids do whatever they want, repent cause you’re a horrible husband and father.

  8. Ever notice Chandler bends his arms and wrists in ways i recall previously seeing in what was considered a cutting edge use of special effects for transforming man to werewolf in the 80’s film An American Werewolf in London

  9. ray says:

    OP — “This is one of the great ways the Enemy destroys biblical masculinity, because all we see is our failures, and most of us have in the back of our minds our dad telling us we’re never going to measure up.”

    My dad NEVER said anything like that to me. Or my brother. He is wonderful and a far better man than I’ll ever be.

    But I’m starting to get why Chandler and his fellow-traveler ‘pastors’ are so confused about Father, men, women, and pretty much everything else in Creation. Apparently Matt had a very different kind of dad A pastoral pulpit is no place to be working out your bad relationship with your dad — as obviously Chandler is not ready, or qualified, to preach in the name of Jeshua.

    Matt is pretending to be able to connect human beings with Jeshua and Father, but he’s grinding and grieving about the relationship with his own dad. Matt should shut up and listen to persons more wise, with solid backgrounds with their earthly daddies.

    “I wish not to shame them in any way…who internally are broken little boys.”

    Matt, you certainly DO wish to shame other men, as a way of reconciling your own failed relationship with your dad. Apparently you ARE the ‘broken little boy’ — and that is OK, EXCEPT you project your own anger, shame, confusion etc. onto other men, which is wrong concerning them, and more importantly is displeasing to Father.

    Close your self-important mouth, renounce your false pastorship, and go seek humility and healing through the grace of Father and Jeshua. You have no business whatsoever counseling men and women.

  10. Chandlers dad didn’t say that. That’s just cover for words he wants to use in his church about the men in the pews.

  11. Lost Patrol says:

    I wrote this too late in the last thread, but it holds for Chandler and Driscoll here as well.

    “He is telling men to respect, revere, serve, and pedestalize women; and he’s telling it to the very men that would never think of doing anything else. He’s telling the least offensive men in society to be less offensive in their masculinity. He’s kicking an obedient dog instead of praising it. Weird stuff.”

    These pastors are targeting the very men that are already toeing the line, are at the church, are servant leading their asses off, and are playing by all the rules in the book of church feminism. What more do the Chandlers and Driscolls want? Why do they continually disrespect the only men on their teams?

  12. DrTorch says:

    Well, it’s up to the males in that church to get fed up and walk out. Granted, that’s not always easy for a young man who is trying to listen to elders. But the older men need to take a stand (literally in this case).

  13. stickdude90 says:

    Why do they continually disrespect the only men on their teams?

    AMOG’s are going to AMOG. It’s what they do.

  14. OKRickety says:

    Looking more carefully into Chandler’s sermon “Manhood Restored” on Feb. 4, 2018, it appears that he couldn’t wait for June to give his Father’s Day sermon and shame men as he believes they deserve. (I don’t see that he admonishes women similarly in that general timeframe. But who does such a thing ever?)

    He starts with a sidebar to the ladies to: 1. “encourage men to act like God would have them behave” and 2. “think biblically and have high expectations for how men approach you, treat you, and talk to you”. (Imagine the churchian response if the pronouns were reversed)

    The rest of the message is, not surprisingly, inconsistent. He says men “always respond to shame either with withdrawal or aggression”, but then continues with his “drive-by shaming”.

    He points out (correctly) that “when the Bible has the man and the woman in view at the same time, he does not give the same commands to both. He creates distinction between the two.”

    But, when referencing Colossians 3 and Ephesians 5, he has the opportunity to point out that wives are to submit to their husbands, he glosses over this to instead focus on husbands not being harsh and being sacrificially loving. In the latter case, he says: “Is there an aspect where the woman is to deny herself also? Yes, but ….” He never expands on the “Yes”.

    As might be expected, the only distinctions between men and women Chandler has interest in are the ones that have the potential to shame Christian men.

    It’s possible that he truly does not wish to shame men, but I don’t see that he provides any useful guidance on how men will be able to be like Christ. In the end, it seems Chandler has simply produced yet another “Father’s Day sermon”.

  15. feministhater says:

    I pray for my brothers in here…I wish not to shame them in any way…who internally are broken little boys.

    How can he stand there and say this with a straight face? He wishes not to shame them but…… calls husbands ‘little boys’ within the same sentence….

    Is this guy for real?!

  16. Eduardo the Magnificent says:

    Men always respond to shame either with withdrawal or aggression. Let a man feel shame, he’s going to withdraw and pout or get angry and lash out.

    I wish not to shame them in any way…who internally are broken little boys.

    Calling them “broken little boys” is a win/win for Mr. Chandler. If the men withdraw, he gets to play alpha in a room devoid of men and have a pretend harem. If they lash out, he can say “I told you so” and has an easy excuse to double down on his sermons.

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  18. earl says:

    Reading his prayer if you took out the:

    ‘I wish not to shame them in any way…who internally are broken little boys.’

    It’s pretty good. But that insult right there pretty much negated it.

    Perhaps it should be Pastoral Knowledge 101…you don’t insult people in your prayer.

  19. CShort says:

    @earl

    I don’t think they can help it. When the default in many of these churches is to insult men, why would the behave any differently in prayer… They already see nothing wrong with it.

  20. seventiesjason says:

    Earl / CS Short: Chandler and his ilk are with the mentality of “they’re men, they can take it, and if they can’t. they’re sissy boys, need to ‘stop whinin’ and ‘man up’

    It’s a form of negging which these frat boy types (secular and sacred) have to always prove they’re the big shot in a room full of women. Negging is rarely if ever used on women by these types. It’s always used on men

  21. Swanny River says:

    Cane Caldo ready for Comedy Club!

  22. Jonadab-the-Rechabite says:

    Good thing women don’t need no repentance, (sigh)!

    Not only is this pastor failing to shepherd men as the rulers of their homes, the women are being robbed of their sanctification and enabled in their sin. Women are also losing out on the blessing of masculine men in their marriage, church and society. You know the toxicity masculine men that built the West. The Kingdom languishes because of the shepherds. But at least the chicks dig them.

    “Thus says the Lord God: Ah, shepherds of Israel who have been feeding yourselves! Should not shepherds feed the sheep? You eat the fat, you clothe yourselves with the wool, you slaughter the fat ones, but you do not feed the sheep. The weak you have not strengthened, the sick you have not healed, the injured you have not bound up, the strayed you have not brought back, the lost you have not sought, and with force and harshness you have ruled them.”
    ‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭34:2-4‬ ‭

  23. earl says:

    Well let’s call it what it is…it’s not a ‘neg’, it’s an insult. That along with his obvious effeminate tendencies doesn’t make him seem like a very good pastor in my book.

  24. I pray invoking the cross and its/my/OUR feigned paternal love that women are infallable victims and men, bless their deficient hearts, must appease and supplicate more, more, more to reach salvation. If that was not shit-test mind-control learned from the effective example of liberated women, I don’t know what is. The sadistic punchline: there is no exogenous finish line and men’s winner circle. Woke? That’s a joke, right?

  25. seventiesjason says:

    Earl, it’s a backhanded compliment……a neg. These guys are great at it. Oh, he’s so humble praying for the men the ‘broken little boys’ but not him of course……it’s exactly in the style of a neg

  26. Aryan Blindboy says:

    “Let a man feel shame, he’s going to withdraw and pout or get angry and lash out.”

    OR… he’s going to simply withdraw – no pout – no anger – no lashing – no response at all – Man Goes His Own Way and does what he wants, that which makes him happy… with zero fucks given for Chandler.

    Simple.
    Elegant.
    Effective and Functional.

    MGTOW.

  27. Aryan Blindboy says:

    Or maybe that should be MGHOW… whatever –

  28. Sharkly says:

    DrTorch says: Well, it’s up to the males in that church to get fed up and walk out.

    Eduardo the Magnificent says: Calling them “broken little boys” is a win/win for Mr. Chandler. If the men withdraw, he gets to play alpha in a room devoid of men and have a pretend harem. If they lash out, he can say “I told you so” and has an easy excuse to double down on his sermons.

    Feminists like Chandler and Driscoll have “Declared War on Men”!
    Leaving will do next to nothing to them. I left the Megachurch and sent a condemning e-mail. I doubt it did much good. But, those Cuck-leaders are cowards. I went to speak to the head hireling at the Megachurch in between services once. I was not allowed to speak to him by his “Bodyguard” a burly security person posted outside his office door. LOL the girly-man preaches about God, heaven, and eternal bliss, but he is actually a coward, afraid to die. He obviously doesn’t take his own faith too seriously. Furthermore, I’m pretty sure I could take down his bodyguard, if I felt like it. The point is they talk big shaming other men, because we let them. But make no mistake about it, they’re cowards, and their actions show that they believe their portion is entirely in this life. This crap will not stop until society is reduced to violence. Unfortunately I’m beginning to think that the least violent solution is not waiting for some all consuming civil war down the road, but having a few men of courage shutting the mouth of a few cowards now, could prevent a lot of violence, that Dalrock does not permit us to advocate. And of course I would never do.

  29. DrTorch says:

    If the men withdraw, he gets to play alpha in a room devoid of men and have a pretend harem. If they lash out, he can say “I told you so” and has an easy excuse to double down on his sermons.

    Until the offering plate money runs out.

  30. Sharkly says:

    Until the offering plate money runs out.
    It won’t run out, the wimminnzzz will keep it pouring in. My wife will be donating money, stripped from my paycheck, intended for my sons, to buy her the indulgence of having her hireling blessing her frivorce and all her contempt. While hireling also declares my sons to be too macho, in need of a crying class, or “voluntary” castration for the sake of the Holy Vagina.

    Rollo points out that Feminism is a supremacist ideology. That needs to be repeated.
    We are at war against an ungodly female supremacist ideology, that has upset our Christian civil society and given us a selfish debauched frivorce culture; raising up bastards and Lolitas where once were boys and girls.

  31. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    I found this article about micro apartments in New York City: https://nypost.com/2018/08/01/what-its-like-to-live-in-nycs-old-school-micro-apartments/

    Brooke Thomas, a 39-year-old assistant, pays $1,100 per month for her SRO – aka a one-room apartment with a pared-down kitchen and communal bathroom in the hall – in Harlem.

    The fate of many “career women.” She’s nearly 40, childless, unmarried, and lives in a micro apartment. She doesn’t even have her own bathroom. Just a shared, communal bathroom.

    But at least she enjoyed a good, long ride on New York City’s cock carousel. The Big Apple is a very exciting city for carousel riders.

  32. earl says:

    @RPL…

    Also…

    Dawn Nicole Lee, 38, lives in an adjacent unit with her two cats, Smittens de Mittens and Snoogers de Boogers…

    Got your investments in cat food stock yet?

  33. Roger says:

    My comments might end up getting flamed here, but whatever …
    I think that Pastor Chandler starts out with a very true statement: “…men are prone to shame” He takes it in a wrong direction when he begins to patronize the men in his congregation by calling them little boys, but he has a point when he says that men are prone to shame. Women, on the other hand, seem to be more immune to it, because so many of them are convinced that they can do no wrong, that only men sin. Over the millennia, women have worked out shaming techniques to a high degree of precision, and they do it because … it works! It’s much harder to shame a woman. Basically that’s what feminism is: age-old female shaming techniques masquerading as a trendy ideology. Actually, it’s the oldest play in the book.
    Up to a point, one could argue that male susceptibility to shaming played a useful role in our development as a species, because the female could use it to get the male to offer long-term care for offspring. But whatever merit there is to that argument, such shaming techniques have outlived their usefulness because there are now plenty of social and institutional incentives for men to provide and protect (not to mention that many of us seem to be naturally inclined to anyway). So, men need to resist the excessive shaming to which we’re constantly subjected, since we seem to have a natural susceptibility to it. And women need to tone it down, lest it backfire on them.

  34. Hose_B says:

    @Roger
    I think that Pastor Chandler starts out with a very true statement: “…men are prone to shame”

    Wrong. Men are very prone to insecurity of their own ability. And women are very prone to insecurity……of their husbands ability.

    His insecurities feed hers and hers feed his. It’s a vicious cycle. The fix is for women to not give into fear as Paul instructs and to put her faith in her man, which is whatGod tells her to do.

    These “pastors” make it all worse by increasing the insecurity in both.

  35. BillyS says:

    Humans are prone to shame. That is his main error. They are also prone to sin, such as by cutting men down. He should address that….

  36. earl says:

    Earl, it’s a backhanded compliment……a neg. These guys are great at it.

    Passive aggressive shots are a hallmark of the effeminates.

  37. AnonS says:

    The counter to shame is ability and clarity because ability is the foundation of confidence, and clarity is knowing what you want, why you want it, and what is possible.

    How vulnerable is Trump and Putin to shame?

    Most women have shame because they lack the ability to get things that they want or even the ability to discover what they really want versus what the TV tells them. A lot of men (betas) have shame for the same reason, they can’t get things they want (a traditional wife).

    One answer is to increase ability and the other is to stop wanting what you don’t have power to obtain (MGTOW). And this split between game and MGTOW is what they think is possible, reality will have to determine which side has more clarity.

    This is the same split between traditional feminine wives resisting shame by being secure and happy and radical feminists being resistant to shame by throwing themselves into careers.

  38. PokeSalad says:

    The counter to shame is ability and clarity because ability is the foundation of confidence, and clarity is knowing what you want, why you want it, and what is possible.

    Exactly, no one can shame you unless you allow it. Ann Landers used to have a pet phrase, “No one can take advantage of you without your permission.”

  39. Zachary Sparks says:

    It’s kind of important to point out that the gender ratio in most churches. It is a bout 60/40 males to females. The message should be to repent, however, if you just “call someone out” with out any rapport they aren’t going to take what you’re saying so kindly. Blanket statements on how, “Men need to man up” really aren’t that effective, because 9 times out of 10, if a dude is going to church, he’s probably at least trying to some degree.

  40. feeriker says:

    A pastoral pulpit is no place to be working out your bad relationship with your dad — as obviously Chandler is not ready, or qualified, to preach in the name of Jeshua.

    A disturbingly massive number of clergy and lay leadership in today’s churches are unfit and unqualified for their positions, as per Scripture.

    “He is telling men to respect, revere, serve, and pedestalize women; and he’s telling it to the very men that would never think of doing anything else. He’s telling the least offensive men in society to be less offensive in their masculinity. He’s kicking an obedient dog instead of praising it. Weird stuff.”

    A perfect example of their cowardice. The beleaugured, downtrodden men of their congregations are easy targets for Chandler and his ilk, like the scrawny, 60-pound 10-year-old is to the 120-pound 14-year-old schoolyard bully. Chandler knows that if he were to deliver his rant to truly abusive husbands, he’d be laughed, mocked, and jeered out of town at best, or beaten to a bloody, comatose pulp at worst. Good churchian loudmouths would of course NEVER take such a foolish risk.

  41. feeriker says:

    It’s kind of important to point out that the gender ratio in most churches. It is a bout 60/40 males to females.

    What church(es) have you been attending? Not only do you appear to have your ratios reversed, it’s nowhere near as close in most churches as you claim.

  42. earl says:

    Chandler knows that if he were to deliver his rant to truly abusive husbands, he’d be laughed, mocked, and jeered out of town at best, or beaten to a bloody, comatose pulp at worst.

    I would like to see what would happen if he tries to AMOG with men who aren’t effeminate cucks.

    Heck if we can’t get it in meatspace Dalrock could extend him an invitation to try and explain himself here in the internets.

  43. feeriker says:

    These “pastors” make it all worse by increasing the insecurity in both.

    “Cowards who crave wealth and temporal power over others and who fear (wo)men more than God, whom they don’t truly fear at all.”

    The best TL;DR description of today’s “pastors” that I can come up with.

  44. Boxer says:

    Heck if we can’t get it in meatspace Dalrock could extend him an invitation to try and explain himself here in the internets.

    Back in the day, before ol’ @jack kicked me off twitter, I used to attempt baiting these people into showing up here. Very, very few (I counted a grand total of two, out of about sixty offers) ever had the balls to appear and attempt a defense of their feminist theses. Those two that did appear, just did so to condemn us, and never bothered to address the salient points dalrock made.

    The reality is that these cucks know that their positions are indefensible. They aren’t sincere, muddle-headed true-believers, as I once assumed. They’re malicious agents, filled with the hateful spirit of feminism, and they’re absolutely committed to dissolving your marriages, and living as parasites on the decaying carcass. They deserve no pity and no respect.

  45. feeriker says:

    Heck if we can’t get it in meatspace Dalrock could extend him an invitation to try and explain himself here in the internets.

    That will never happen, because Chandler knows that he wouldn’t last five minutes here. The intellectual and theological virtual corpses of other churchio-feminist cucks who have come here trying to defend their toxic heresies against the plain truth litter this place, which probably serves as a big deterrent/repellent. I’m also sure that word has gotten out amongst the churchian/SJWsphere about this blog, which they avoid like snails avoid salt or vampires avoid mirrors.

  46. feeriker says:

    Inre my last comment, Boxer beat me to it and summed it up better than I did.

  47. earl says:

    Point being it’s easy to be AMOG when your G is full of emasculated men.

  48. anonymous_ng says:

    Men are not prone to shame or doubt in their abilities. Men are prone to pride and hubris.

  49. Jed Mask says:

    On another note check this out: https://thetransformedwife.com/shameful-for-women-to-speak-in-church/

    ________________

    Good to hear from women in Christ who “know their role and know their place”. Amen.

    Also: “Men are not prone to shame or doubt in their abilities. Men are prone to pride and hubris.”

    +1 for Mr. Anonymous_ng

    ~ Bro. Jed

  50. A neg target is someone who feels superior to the person who negs. Psychological abuse of mentally vulnerable drones is not a neg: it’s insurance on their future production and complete failure.

  51. ray says:

    “Teacher who performed oral sex on student pleads guilty. A Bronx public school teacher has admitted she performed oral sex on a 14-year-old boy on “multiple occasions and in multiple locations” — but will not have to go to prison or surrender her teaching license. South Florida teacher loses license after speaking to students about his sex life. A South Florida teacher has lost his teaching license after speaking about his own sex life during a sex education class.”

    source: Daily Crow

    Ain’t Ekwallity grand!? One law for thee and a very different law for me.

    The cows and the cowards actually think they’re gonna make the United Sisterhood ‘great’.

  52. Sharkly says:

    Thanks for the link, Jed Mask.
    Lori Alexander pokes the apostates in the eye again. I love it! She says:
    God doesn’t contradict Himself. By instructing women to be silent in the church four times and to be in submission to our husbands many times, He has made His will clearly known to us. Either you take Him at His Word of you try to find ways to disobey Him by making up your own rules. It’s your choice.

  53. Joe says:

    My pastor is allowing a women to lead worship. She does some talking as well.
    TIme for a talk with said pastor.

  54. feeriker says:

    “God doesn’t contradict Himself. By instructing women to be silent in the church four times and to be in submission to our husbands many times, He has made His will clearly known to us. Either you take Him at His Word of you try to find ways to disobey Him by making up your own rules. It’s your choice.”

    God bless Lori, who is one of those very rare and PRECIOUS Titus 2 women.

    I’m sure that she is very well aware that the christofeminisphere is going to come unglued over her remarks. Never-Trump haters can’t hold a candle to the venom directed by feminists at women who stray from the ideological herd.

  55. feeriker says:

    Captain Capitalism joins the counter-attack on Lori Alexander’s detractors:

    http://captaincapitalism.blogspot.com/2018/08/christian-women-worshiping-feminism.html?m=1

  56. Boxer says:

    I’m sure that she is very well aware that the christofeminisphere is going to come unglued over her remarks. Never-Trump haters can’t hold a candle to the venom directed by feminists at women who stray from the ideological herd.

    Sister Lori is a master troll, who exposes the lunatics with a high degree of skill and cunning. I’ve learned a lot from studying her work, and you boys should too.

  57. feeriker says:

    I know that ol’ Cappy Cap has followed the unfortunate trajectory of so many pastor’s kids and turned agnostic, but I just cannot find it within me to dispute the truth of his final comment before providing the source link to the article:

    I’ll say it again boys, yes you will find more traditional women in religion. But the truly evil and manipulative ones also reside in the church.

  58. earl says:

    God doesn’t contradict Himself. By instructing women to be silent in the church four times and to be in submission to our husbands many times, He has made His will clearly known to us. Either you take Him at His Word of you try to find ways to disobey Him by making up your own rules. It’s your choice.

    I look forward to seeing how her detractors try to wail and gnash their teeth out of this one.

    Her first article was about men’s preference…to which the whiny females took that point into something about God forgiving their past & loving them no matter what. That wasn’t the point of the article.

    Here Lori is actually talking about God’s Word.

  59. earl says:

    Sister Lori is a master troll, who exposes the lunatics with a high degree of skill and cunning.

    Seems to me telling the truth to those who want their ears tickled with lies is the most effective way to be a troll.

  60. Jake says:

    Keep up the work Dalrock. At this point I’m asking why would any man listen to this sick talk and I have to remind myself that many of the males in the church have not had a man in their lives. A father perhaps but not a true man. The lack of courage and strength has led to this sorry state of affairs and has consequently the madness occurring in our society. These males will be consumed by weak women and the men they choose as replacements.

  61. Sharkly says:

    Sister Lori is a master troll
    Seems to me telling the truth … is the most effective way to be a troll.

    I think the best way to go at the false teachers and apostates, is to find the part of God’s word that is most embarrassing, and appalling, and grievous to them, and to lovingly and faithfully embrace it with a childlike faith, and joyously and boldly proclaim that it means just what it says, and I’m happy to accept it from God and joyfully live it out. You by your example put them to eternal shame, and they know it. Nothing enrages them like being shown for the angry loud rebellious sluts in opposition to God, that they are by choice.

    I’m working on a post about female head-coverings a commanded symbol of submission (1 Corinthians 11) that our Feminist churches have thrown off 100% in favor of rebellion to God. I think it could land squarely triggering those Satanic churchians to froth at the mouth over a sweet declaration of humility and holiness hitting against their impudent and debauched lives. It would be nice if I could arrange to have it guest posted on somebody’s site, that already has a large audience, otherwise, I’ll have to figure out all the details of starting my own blog, before I get it posted after finishing it up. I’d love it if I could have “Lightning-rod Lori” post it on her site. Or perhaps here.

  62. info says:

    ”weak women ”

    Morally weak. But Masculine rather than Feminine.

  63. Boxer says:

    I’ll have to figure out all the details of starting my own blog, before I get it posted after finishing it up.

    It ain’t rocket science, and costs you nothing. Just start a free one at wordpress or blogspot, and start writing.

    I’d love it if I could have “Lightning-rod Lori” post it on her site. Or perhaps here.

    Post a link in the comments sections on Lori’s blog and here and elsewhere. All the best people will find it and promote you.

  64. Boxer says:

    I know that ol’ Cappy Cap has followed the unfortunate trajectory of so many pastor’s kids and turned agnostic, but I just cannot find it within me to dispute the truth of his final comment before providing the source link to the article

    Pastor’s kids? He posted youtube videos talking about being Jewish, a couple of years ago. I took him seriously, as did all the cartoonish antisemites.

  65. seventiesjason says:

    Pastors kid? Cappy???? Well………..I thought he was part Jewish or whatever. He did do an epic rant once on a Millennial which I did think was hilarious…….and his take about “horse chicks” was pretty good. I like his take on not going to college “to get a good job” because I know plenty of unemployed “computer science” types. You have to have a few other skills besides “science” to get a job…ummm…like showering……being able to talk to people (an interview) and show up to work on time (having an alarm clock that works instead of relying on your cellphone is a good thing)

  66. Sharkly says:

    It ain’t rocket science
    LOL Too bad, if only it was, I’m actually kind of an experienced expert at certain aspects of aerospace stuff.
    I’m sure I’ll be able to figure it out though, I just don’t like making all the newbie errors and looking retarded during the learning curve. I prefer to be a bit perfectionist about my work.

  67. ray says:

    feeriker — “God bless Lori, who is one of those very rare and PRECIOUS Titus 2 women.”

    Was thinking something similar today, as well.

  68. ray says:

    earl — “Seems to me telling the truth to those who want their ears tickled with lies is the most effective way to be a troll.”

    Yeah. The Book of Revelation contains multiple instances of God or His servants using a single determinant in deciding who passes and who doesn’t. Typically it’s this simple matter of the truth, as attested by Scripture, or elsewhere in this world around us. Some hate it as use it predatorily, and some seek and embrace it.

    This process of delineation begins in the churches, or so-called churches. So like this page, Lori is diligent about Father’s business.

  69. Spike says:

    Pastor Chandler seems to live in a parallel universe where there is no Homer Simpson, no Peter Griffin, no Star Wars movies where the female lead is untouchable while the previous male hero got cut to pieces. He doesn’t see the ads that portray men as incompetent fools that need children to do tasks for them and mothers to scold them like schoolboys.
    Is Pastor Chandler alone in this? Judging by what I see, half a world away, No. I see: Women pray prayers about “The abuse fathers commit” on days set aside to honor fathers. Female missionaries given blessings because “men don’t have the fortitude to do this work” (we actually realise we would lose any chance of family). I hear stories about men’s pornography addictions so bad they can’t perform in a real woman’s presence, yet I never hear women reading Fifty Shades condemned. Nor do I hear pastors exhort women about getting their priorities right in their lives, because their fertility is short and careers – the earthly pursuits we use to make money to live – can wait.
    Jeremiah preached repentance and got thrown down a well for it. John The Baptist was beheaded for speaking God’s truth to power, also what Jesus did to get crucified. Yet I see the modern church take down the straw men, so that no one really gets offended.

  70. earl says:

    Jeremiah preached repentance and got thrown down a well for it. John The Baptist was beheaded for speaking God’s truth to power, also what Jesus did to get crucified. Yet I see the modern church take down the straw men, so that no one really gets offended.

    Even those guys weren’t afraid of women being offended…they took on the men in power and paid for it.

    Most of the modern pastors are more afraid of women than the men in their congregation. Is that because the women are in power…or is it because they won’t take on men who know Biblical truths?

  71. seventiesjason says:

    Well…..you know women are so passive-aggressive “Hrumph…if men would just man-up and get it together, we wouldn’t be in the state we’re in”

    But “getting it together” and “manning up” is nevre clearly defined. Let’s say they were correct (Chandler, modern-women in church culture ect). Okay, well what is it….many would say “put a ring on it / ask us out we don’t bite”

    Okay, then its variables…education, money, status…the word you can NEVER say on theis forum, but I’ll say it: A man’s physical looks

    There is also never an end to this…….a man “mans up” and marries some reformed party girl. The demands are just begining now…..this is just a place where women have an endless “bitch fest” and plenty of men are there to listen, swallow it in hopes of being popular with them….

  72. Boxer says:

    I just don’t like making all the newbie errors and looking retarded during the learning curve. I prefer to be a bit perfectionist about my work.

    The only error you could make is to give out your name or real-world contact info to anyone. Feminists are physical and moral cowards, but they’ll still curse at your kids and egg your house and such. There are plenty of people in the so-called manosphere who will sell you out in a second, also.

    As far as quality… Most of the stuff I see online (including my own) is stream-of-consciousness first draft stuff. This is fine. Your target audience (mostly) operates on emotion, rather than reason. Appeal to them that way.

  73. Zachary Sparks says:

    It’s kind of important to point out that the gender ratio in most churches. It is a bout 60/40 males to females.

    What church(es) have you been attending? Not only do you appear to have your ratios reversed, it’s nowhere near as close in most churches as you claim.

    My bad, that was a typo, got male and female backwards.

  74. Zachary Sparks says:

    also, east orthodox, there is about gender parity there.

  75. Sharkly says:

    Most of the modern pastors are more afraid of women than the men in their congregation. Is that because the women are in power…or is it because they won’t take on men who know Biblical truths?
    I’m not sure about the “why” they are the way they are. And I cannot put myself in their shoes and even imagine being a “minister or God’s word” and yet not fearing God most high, more than men or women. However, I do know that they are false teaching, deceiving, turning God’s word upside down and preaching the opposite. So they work in the service of Satan the chief deceiver and false teacher. I may not know why they do things, but I know who they work for. And it helps to know that.
    I believe they are those mentioned in Jude:
    who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness … these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward … These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men’s persons in admiration because of advantage. … having not the Spirit.

    Those frauds greedily “minister” God’s word for money like Balaam. Walking after their own lust for money, power, influence, sex, prestige, Etc. Speaking great swelling words, while hating their brother like Cain did. They murmur and complain and throw most all other men(their Christian brothers) under the bus as their favorite pastime.(AMOGing unopposed from the advantage of the pulpit) They preach God’s grace into lasciviousness. “ride the cock carrousel, we’ll forgive you!”, “frivorce and remarry”, “did God really say that is adultery?” Etc.
    Well, not only will I now condemn them, but God has before, of old, ordained these hirelings as “vessels of wrath fitted to destruction”. Thank God that many of us are “vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, even us, whom he hath called”. I pray that we will all strive to live worthy of our high calling.

  76. Sharkly says:

    Thanks for the good advice, Boxer.
    I may try to target a younger audience if possible, as opposed to just arguing with the generation of fools upon whose watch things became most messed up. LOL I include myself in there, having only recently been Red Pilled through the unprovoked evil of my wife. I want to see if the young can learn from our failures, and return to God and God’s ways. I’m sure if things go as I hope, the generation of fools will want to argue and persecute me, but I don’t believe that they’ll have any luck changing my mind. According to my Psychological Evaluation, I’m “rigid” in my thinking, and not likely to change. LOL I think they meant that negatively, But, I’ll wear that criticism like a badge of honor! I’ve got an old book that tells me how to live. I try to live by the book as rigidly as possible, and now I’m going to try to push my rigid beliefs on as many others as I can, Lord willing.

  77. MKT says:

    “, I just don’t like making all the newbie errors and looking retarded during the learning curve. I prefer to be a bit perfectionist about my work.”

    Perfectionism and blogging (or pretty much any other pursuit) are mutually exclusive. You have to put yourself out there and be willing to learn and make mistakes.

  78. Karl says:

    “[M]ost of us have in the back of our minds our dad telling us we’re never going to measure up.”

    Projection at its finest. Most of us have nothing of the kind in the back of our minds. Same thing with his belief that fathers exasperate their children to anger, and not mothers. Most men don’t have that experience either.

    Not surprised to find out that Chandler has daddy issues, though. If the story about how his father repeatedly kept telling him to use savage violence in school is even half true, that must have been some messed up upbringing. 😦

  79. earl says:

    @Sharkly….

    What you described in the 8:44 comment is pretty much what the homo clergy does in the Catholic church. Perhaps spiritual sickness manifests itself in men through effeminacy and homosexuality.

  80. freebird says:

    What happens when you experience false accusations? Men always respond to false accusations either with withdrawal or aggression. Let a man get a false accusation, he’s going to withdraw and pout or get angry and lash out. And who gets lashed out on the most? Usually the false accusor. So do you want to act like a man,and absorb the hateful lie?

  81. earl says:

    Sounds like in Pennslyvania alone…there was more than just Jerry Sandusky going on.

    https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/wuerl-next-fall-catholicmetoo

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/pennsylvania-catholic-nuclear-bomb-grand-jury/

    ‘Breaking news out of Pennsylvania: the state Supreme Court has ordered the release next month of a 900-page grand jury report that will discuss more than 300 “predator priests” in six of the state’s eight Catholic dioceses.’

    Spiritually sick men who are entrusted to lead others to Christ…are instead ruining the faithful & the church through their own perverted lusts.

  82. BillyS says:

    They fear the backlash from women. I had a recent speaker at my church admit that at first. I had complained that his example of being demanding about a man who expected a women who had done it all on a Friday (working, buying groceries, getting the kids in order, etc.) was far less likely than the reverse. His first response was that the reaction from the woman would have been strong if he instead used an example of a wife being demanding on her husband. He then quickly retreated and came out with the other idiotic statement that men cannot teach women these things.

    I usually think quick, but I missed noting the first was the real reason and was just the fear of man (woman in this case). Peter and Paul both had no trouble teaching women in the Scriptures, though both were male.

    He knew he would get far more pushback from women and that illustrated his underlying fear.

  83. ray says:

    Spike — “Jeremiah preached repentance and got thrown down a well for it. John The Baptist was beheaded for speaking God’s truth to power, also what Jesus did to get crucified.”

    Ain’t they something? I never lack for motivation, can’t imagine why any Christian would. Those are strong men — the strongest — versus the hired wimpsters in American pulpits, mewling the agendas of women.

    I expect the OT prophets not already on-site will be right up front when Jeshua returns. They will want to make sure their enemies see them. :O)

  84. Dave says:

    The men in these churches are self selected. Manly men can’t stand the nonsense being peddled by the likes of Chandler and Driscoll, so they often leave. The men who stay behind are gluttons for punishment. Somehow, they think their godliness rises with the degree of their humiliation and spiritual abuse.

  85. earl says:

    He knew he would get far more pushback from women and that illustrated his underlying fear.

    While it certainly shows a lack of fortitude on his part…the backlash from women is real.

    Look at what happened when a woman (Lori Alexander) started giving out some truth to her sisters…most of the backlash was women.

    Saying what needs to be said needs to be done in spite of what backlash the women bring. And when it happens…double down on the truth.

  86. seventiesjason says:

    Dave, then they wonder why the women there of marrying age won’t date them, think they’re boring.

  87. Disillusioned says:

    What really gets me about these guys is that all men are weak, losers, toxic…except themselves. Jesus never said something like that. He built up manhood and femenity. I rather follow Jesus.

  88. earl says:

    Okay, well what is it….many would say “put a ring on it / ask us out we don’t bite”

    I wouldn’t take any definition of ‘manning up’ from a woman to begin with. And if a pastor tries to define manning up only in terms of what men do for women…that’s not a good start either.

  89. Dave says:

    Dave, then they wonder why the women there of marrying age won’t date them, think they’re boring.

    Obviously. Unfortunately, their failure to “get a girl” opens up another opportunity for the likes of Pastor Chandler to bash them even more. Maybe if they were humble enough, or servile to women enough, or gentle enough, or display “toxic masculinity” less often enough, they might find one of these wonderful, sinless and faultless sisters to date them.

  90. Sharkly says:

    Hireling matt chandler says:
    What happens when you experience shame? Men always respond to shame either with withdrawal or aggression.
    Only two possible outcomes? No man is ever reasoned, rational, and reacts appropriately? Methinks this guy’s teaching is too simplistic. he is either simple minded or a shrewd deceiver?
    LOL Simplistically there are just two possible outcomes, right back at you chandler. See I can play that game too.

    … and most of us have in the back of our minds our dad telling us we’re never going to measure up.

    I don’t think most fathers are like that. Mine wasn’t. Unfortunately my mom was exactly like that. And yes, she angered and exasperated me too. Sorry matt chandler, it is the women and cucked manginas like yourself that do most of the shaming of men.

  91. Oscar says:

    … and most of us have in the back of our minds our dad telling us we’re never going to measure up.

    My dad never said anything like that. On the contrary; he had high expectations of me. As others have pointed out, Chandler is most likely projecting.

  92. BillyS says:

    Dave,

    They aren’t half the human most of those women are, in weight or girth!

  93. BillyS says:

    My dad had major trouble accepting me as an adult, but that was more below the surface and most likely because he had a very hard time trying to truly please his dad. My dad would regularly boast to others about me though and never told me personally that I would never measure up. He had his problems, but I still wish he was here, almost 20 years after his death, even though we would still argue regularly.

    Chandler is full of it in his accusations.

  94. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    New York City plans to correct the shortage of woman statues: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/26/nyregion/women-monuments-new-york-city.html

    In an effort to correct the civic record left in public art, New York City officials announced in June that we would soon be seeing more statues of women on our streets and in our parks. Right now there are very few …

    The city’s new initiative rightly focuses on honoring women with a significant connection to New York, and it has called upon the public to make suggestions.

  95. Sharkly says:

    RPL,
    Although I skipped going to your link:
    I have successfully managed to stay out of New York city for my whole life. However, never having been there, the only statue that I am aware of in New York is female. In fact if I were to go to some foreign country and try to buy a figurine symbolic of New York, 99% chance the only “New York” figurine they would have, would be a statue of Liberty figurine that says “New York”. But apparently there is a danger that New York may now be guilty of having misogynistic statuary.??? Liberals are crazy!

  96. JRob says:

    If you’re the progeny of evangelical royalty you can divorce, move the kids 800 miles away, and daddy will make it all better. Perhaps even a lucrative adjunct ministry. Be sure to hyphenate your surname to show daddy he thinks you measure up, even more than your new husband.

    If you can make it to her book list without vomiting, remember the Colleens of the world create many walking wounded and walking NFG…

  97. JRob says:

    Choir,
    Here is her list of demands for hubby #2.

  98. Dave says:

    … and most of us have in the back of our minds our dad telling us we’re never going to measure up.

    Bingo! This statement profoundly explains most of Chandler’s preaching.
    He probably grew up with a father who regularly shamed and belittled him so he could “do better”. So Chandler thought the best way to motivate others was to bash them and belittle them.

    Biblical preaching should be rich in Scriptural passages. Every concept espoused should be based on an appropriate, accurately applied Scriptural passage. Every idea advanced must have at least 2 passages in its support, because “at the mouth of two or three witnesses [or two or three passages] shall every word be established”. No one, not even a preacher, has a right to establish a doctrine based on their own ideas or life experiences. The likes of Chandler are full of men’s opinions because their hearts are not “sound in the word” (Psalm 119:80).

    References:
    Deuteronomy 19:15 King James Version (KJV)
    15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

    Matthew 18:16 King James Version (KJV)
    16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

    2 Corinthians 13:1 King James Version (KJV)
    13 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

    Psalm 119:80 King James Version (KJV)
    80 Let my heart be sound in thy statutes; that I be not ashamed.

  99. Sharkly says:

    [Colleen Swindoll-Thompson] her list of demands for hubby #2.
    LOL
    More like, ten good reasons to buy a can of “Bitch B’ Gone” and fumigate your life.

    What bums me out:
    •Anything judgmental
    •Having ADHD and PTSD
    •Migraines
    •Schedules
    •Laundry
    •Hanging up my clothes

    Good thing she’s already married, ‘cuz that all reads like a warning label.

  100. JRob says:

    Perhaps the New Aposematism is a churchian ministry and Ann Voskamp listed as a favorite author, instead of the purple hair and curled studded upper lip of yore.

  101. earl says:

    Good thing she’s already married, ‘cuz that all reads like a warning label.

    That and ‘divorced’.

  102. Swanny River says:

    Colleen may have been good looking 10 years and 15 pounds ago, so I can imagine lots of normal Christian men wanting to marry her.
    But my thought isn’t about how her despicable list (except the physical things like migraines and ADHD (PTSD- was she a former combat soldier)) reflects on her, but on the church.
    She writes that list because she is confident it will be well-received. It says something bad (worthy of judgment Colleen) about us that a wife glorifies in her unfitness as a helpmeet.

  103. Swanny River says:

    Come to think of it, her list makes me think she isn’t fit for any marriage, not even an egalitarian lezbo one.
    Why does the church continue to let women equate love and lack of judgment? Pastor’s, including her Dad, make it clear that the woman at the well story is not a text that promotes a mindless judgment-free zone.
    When she says she hates judgment she is admitting God does it, it’s too much for her to handle, and so instead of dealing with God’s power by submitting to him, she has decided to choose her own way (denial and mindlessness) to deal with her inability to accept the fact that everything and everyone will be judged.

  104. Swanny River says:

    I went to her link and saw her whole list. It sounds like she, or her kids were in a bad car accident, that could be why she says PTSD. She’s had back surgery and has migraines, I can partially relate and that is hard. She might not carry extra weight like I thought, and just has full cheeks.
    It makes me wonder why she got divorced, but I won’t say more about someone with special needs kids, migraines, and a bad back, even if she is a spaz that brings some of that on herself.

  105. Spike says:

    ray says:
    August 4, 2018 at 2:14 pm
    Spike — “Jeremiah preached repentance and got thrown down a well for it. John The Baptist was beheaded for speaking God’s truth to power, also what Jesus did to get crucified.”

    Ain’t they something? I never lack for motivation, can’t imagine why any Christian would. Those are strong men — the strongest — versus the hired wimpsters in American pulpits, mewling the agendas of women.

    I expect the OT prophets not already on-site will be right up front when Jeshua returns. They will want to make sure their enemies see them. :O)

    ray: Thanks for your reply. It’s encouraging. I think speaking Truth to Power – the Word of Truth against the Powers of this World – is the most important role the Church can play. It has to start with every individual Christian man.
    To do so, though, means you have to encounter God i such a way that you’re prepared to lose everything: wife, family, job, freedom. I’m not sure that the church- tax-exempt donation model allows it to happen.

  106. JRob says:

    Life circumstances aside, all churchian female traits are manifest here. If you haven’t researched the heresies and teachings of Ann Voskamp (especially) and others she touts as her favorite authors, please do so for an interesting read.

  107. Frank K says:

    Why does the church continue to let women equate love and lack of judgment?

    Could it be because there is no “the church”, but rather thousands of “churches” that are in schism with each other. Even if you belong to a church/congregation/denomination that does not allow the above, what can your church do against a church that does? Issue an anathema against them? They’ll either ignore you or just return the favor.

  108. JRob says:

    Excommunication/disfellowship means zilch when you’re welcomed with open arms by the next church a block away.

  109. John says:

    https://aleteia.org/2018/08/04/what-fathers-want-their-daughters-to-know-about-men/

    In case someone else hasn’t already sent you this link. There are various quotes of weak baby boomer Catholics praising their goddess daughters.

  110. DrTorch says:

    https://aleteia.org/2018/08/04/what-fathers-want-their-daughters-to-know-about-men/

    That was painful. Freakin’ pathetic, and I resent these asshats presumption that they can speak for all men. In fact I question the manhood of several of them.

    Excommunication/disfellowship means zilch when you’re welcomed with open arms by the next church a block away.

    Very true.

    . If you haven’t researched the heresies and teachings of Ann Voskamp (especially)

    Well I tried. I read/skimmed the first chapter of one of her books. Frankly, this “one of the greatest living author” writes utterly painful prose. It’s “destined to be a classic,” but I’ll wager it’s forgotten in 5 years. Anyway, I didn’t get to any overt heresy, but it was a struggle wading through the solipsism. American churches have had a diet of that for several decades, from the pulpit, on Christian radio and in Christian books…no wonder we are where we are.

  111. ray says:

    “What bums me out:
    •Anything judgmental”

    She means, anyone attempting to judge (correct) her. It’s Number One with a bullet!

    But she expects, is fully empowered, to sit in judgment of you, as one look around your nation confirms.

  112. feeriker says:

    JRob says:
    August 5, 2018 at 1:21 am

    The name of that URL that you link to: “Reframing Ministries.” That TRULY says it all.

    Colleen is a train wreck who has ZE-RO business “ministering” to anybody (who in their right mind goes to a terminally ill doctor to get cured of anything?). Then again, the modern western “church” is pretty much being led across the board by people wholly unqualified for their positions per Scripture (most of which is ignored anyway).

  113. JRob says:

    @DrTorch
    Voskamp’s writing is tedious, you’re right.

    http://www.cicministry.org/commentary/issue120.htm
    Scroll down to the ” Romantic Encounter with God” section for the worst of it. Her stuff is chock full of mysticism, panentheism, New Age babble, etc. The grrls lap it up. IIRC, pages 209-216 were awful. Don’t have the book anymore (Frowny Face/sarc).

    @feeriker
    Reframing ministries should be geared for a man to reframe his perspective whilst the jackboot of the state/family court is on his neck.

  114. seventiesjason says:

    Attended the Eastern Ortodox Church I was invited to.

    Small….and that’s not a issue for me. Very steeped in ritual, much of which I do not understand or why it’s done the way its done.

    Longer service than I am used to. I was intrigued. I was polite and quiet. I did not even attempt to take Holy Communion…..I just assumed it was not an open communion……

    The only greeting I got was from the usher who handed me a program. I stood when everyone stood. Sat when everyone sat.

    I didn’t feel profoundly changed after the service. I did like the priest, did not get to speak to him, and was not formally introduced. I might go again.

    The women from that bookstore who invited me was not there this week……I did not see her anyway.

  115. feeriker says:

    seventiesjason says:
    August 5, 2018 at 5:53 pm

    Amazing, isn’t it, how difficult “finding a church home” has become. I’m nearly convinced that it’s easier to integrate oneself into a street gang or a secret satanic cult than it is to become “part of the family of Christ” in one of today’s “churches.”

    Hang in there, though. Eventually you’ll be where God wants you to be. It just takes time, patience, and trusting God to guide you.

  116. seventiesjason says:

    We’ll see. I didn’t feel anything “negative” from today. Also this church, like their protetstant cousins was filled with mostly old women, men my age or older with the wife…their children grown and moved away / lapsed / or just cultural…..the only younger guy was the usher…..and he spoke with a heavy Slavic accent. He was not a native of the USA. He was about 30….hard to say with some Slavs. I saw two children….and I think they were the priests kids…..could be wrong.

    The priest was jovial and friendly. He was in his thirties for sure

    Probably 35-45 people tops.

  117. Lost Patrol says:

    There are various quotes of weak baby boomer Catholics praising their goddess daughters.

    These could be the quotes from churchmen of any stripe as I’ve come to learn. This is our new normal. I recently attended a (RCC) wedding wherein the couple exchanged vows by repeating after the priest, and any mention of obey by either party did not occur. The “solid rock” foundation of the marriage was said by the priest to be their mutual love for one another (romantic love was implied though that exact word was not used).

    At the end the priest said a prayer for them. He read this out of a leather bound book with gilded pages that I could clearly see. Mostly boiler plate except for this – the prayer for the groom included words to the effect that he ‘recognize that she is his equal in every way’.

    P.S. During speeches and toasts at the rehearsal dinner the night before, the groom’s soon to be mother-in-law praised his masculinity by saying he cooks, cleans up, AND wipes down the countertops afterwards. That’s how she knew he had been raised right. At this point she enlisted all the women present by rhetorically asking “you know what I mean, right ladies?”.

    Dead man walking, I thought. I hope to be wrong. He’s a fine lad.

  118. earl says:

    On sex …

    “Most of us think about sex with more alarming regularity than you could guess — not because we’re depraved, but because we’re weak jerks who need to prove ourselves around the clock. We can grow up.”

    —45-year-old father of three, Grand Rapids, Michigan

    Speak for yourself 45 yr old father of three. Sounds like that’s your problem.

  119. earl says:

    The “solid rock” foundation of the marriage was said by the priest to be their mutual love for one another (romantic love was implied though that exact word was not used).

    Love of God for both parties should have been included…otherwise that ‘solid rock’ might be on shifting sand.

  120. earl says:

    She means, anyone attempting to judge (correct) her. It’s Number One with a bullet!

    Like that whole remarriage after divorce thing.

  121. Cliffton Adams says:

    I heard the title of this article in my head sung to the tune of the only gay eskimo in my tribe song.

  122. Micha Elyi says:

    Mother’s Day sermons are always like, “Moms, you guys are so great. Where would we be without you guys?
    –Pastor Matt Chandler

    Yes, the gynolatry preached in pulpits before supposedly Christian congregations is heresy. Also, there’s something wrong with a person who refers to females as “guys”. I see a connection there.

    “Words mean things.”–Rush Limbaugh

  123. BillyS says:

    And he fails to see that he does the same thing….

  124. RichardP says:

    @Swanny – I commend you for letting facts alter your attitude.

  125. Scott says:

    Here’s me not caring what Matt Chandler says about being a man.

  126. OKRickety says:

    seventiesjason said: “Attended the Eastern Ortodox Church I was invited to.”

    Coincidentally, I alternated between watching and just listening to a live video feed of the liturgy at an Orthodox church yesterday. Thankfully, it was in English but the sound quality was poor. I would guess the attendance was about 50 including several babies and some children.

    The singing was reasonably good, but it lasted much longer than I am willing to endure, even though the homily was reasonably short. Length of service is a pet peeve of mine. I especially dislike sermons (homilies, whatever) that last more than 20 minutes. In most cases, I seldom remember much and doubt that I am unusual.

    I know it’s not the church for me.

    It just dawned on me that Scott’s move from Church of Christ to Orthodox had one thing in common: No musical instruments in the worship service.

  127. freebird says:

    One woman put it this way: “Well, about two thirds of the singles [at my church] are women, and the men who come are kinda wimpy. Or creepy. There’s a reason they’re single.”

    http://www.boundless.org/relationships/2012/where-have-the-men-gone

  128. Scott says:

    Attended the Eastern Ortodox Church I was invited to.

    Lord have mercy

    Small….and that’s not a issue for me. Very steeped in ritual, much of which I do not understand or why it’s done the way its done.

    The divine liturgy in its current form is about 1700 years old.

    Longer service than I am used to. I was intrigued. I was polite and quiet. I did not even attempt to take Holy Communion…..I just assumed it was not an open communion……

    It’s not. So good idea.

    The only greeting I got was from the usher who handed me a program. I stood when everyone stood. Sat when everyone sat.

    When in Rome is a good policy. Some smart guy said it a long time ago.

    I didn’t feel profoundly changed after the service. I did like the priest, did not get to speak to him, and was not formally introduced. I might go again.

    You won’t unless you are chrismated and receive communion (“come into the fullness” as we say).

  129. OKRickety says:

    I thought boundless  was totally pathetic. In this case, they did better than usual. The author of the article referenced by freebird  is David Murrow of Church for Men, author of Why Men Hate Going to Church.

    He also wrote a follow-up article, How to Get the Men Back. I think he is on the right track, although he, unfortunately, thinks highly of Mark Driscoll’s work with men. For example,

    “This will warm your heart: Driscoll encourages his young men to stop prolonging their adolescence and get married. He praises young men in his congregation who land a job, buy a home and commit to a woman.”

    Nonetheless, I think David Murrow is trying to effect positive change in how the church treats men, and he seems to know the current score. At least, that is how I read this:

    “Most pastors would love to make their churches more man-friendly, but they’re afraid of opposition from the ladies. So here’s an idea: Gather some women, go to your church leaders and tell them you’ll support efforts to make the church more guy-friendly.”

  130. feeriker says:

    “Well, about two thirds of the singles [at my church] are women, and the men who come are kinda wimpy. Or creepy. There’s a reason they’re single.”

    It’s clip the sedes here.

    “Well, about two thirds of the singles [at my church] are women and most of them who come are kinda bitchy. Or obese. There’s a reason they’re single.”

    Cue indignant churchian screaming…

  131. feeriker says:

    It’s clip the sedes here. = “Let’s filp the sexes here.”

    Burn in hell, whoever invented auto-correct

  132. “Toxic masculinity” is just more of the same – the now pervasive blaming and shaming of men and boys.
    Let’s make sure more men and boys to reject their humanity and natural, God-given sexuality and behave more like women in all respects.

    Just read this cuckservative spout off more of the same purulent discharge:
    https://idahostatejournal.com/opinion/columns/boyz-to-men/article_6d35b4ad-80ff-57e1-a625-211204a5c2d6.html

    Young boys are NOT WRONG to desire/want/seek girls that are “pretty” in a future wife.
    While it’s true young boys may not be as eloquent and loquacious as their young female counterparts at that age, the word “Pretty” among boys encapsulates and simplifies much more. “Pretty” includes female youth, health, fertility and beauty and some measure of feminine virtue – namely femininity, modesty, chastity, warmth, grace, affability,reticence, manners and politeness.
    All of these are now in short supply among westernized females as it is.

    But only an indoctrinated feminist and misandrist would conflate the boys’ quick and simplistic “pretty” response – no matter how matter-of-fact, guarded or flippant they delivered it – as “toxic masculinity”. Also, boys hate these kinds of questions. They are not in the least bit interested in future wives, and for very good reasons and alternatives of greater interests.

    Girls at that age are different. And even they will imagine their husbands in a more romantic and platonic light than the sexual one which will pervade their 20s and the pragmatic, opportunistic one that dominates her more wise, enlightened and desperate early and mid-30s.

  133. @feeriker
    Most “single” women in American churches these days are divorcees. With a healthy side-order of obese, jaded and bitchy.
    They rejoice in their recently declared “neo-virginity” and re-calibrated standards for men, but under the hood its a high-mileage, post carousel whore who gave her body to rosters of other men who invested nothing in her and did not earn such affection. They are retreads. And now, ironically, in through the eyes of these used up retreads, no man can ever do enough to earn it.
    And the pastors are repeating this same message. She is heavenly and always has been, regardless. Men, no matter what they do, are God’s hot garbage.

    I’m sure there are exceptions, but they in no way negate what has become a rule.
    The modern day Christian church is absolutely and positively NOT where a young or even older, marry-minded bachelor would wish to find a future wife.

  134. feeriker says:

    And the pastors are repeating this same message. She is heavenly and always has been, regardless.

    They HAVE to repeat this message.

    When you have ZE-RO real faith in the God you claim is your savior, you have to tickle female ears in order to fill collection plates so that you can survive. Otherwise you’ll be forced to look for a real job, which you’re obviously unauited for.

  135. Not sure if already discussed. This came out August 1 from Pew Research:

    http://www.pewforum.org/2018/08/01/why-americans-go-to-religious-services/

  136. earl says:

    And the pastors are repeating this same message. She is heavenly and always has been, regardless.

    Yeah and when that’s the case…what’s the point of Jesus for her? He turns into her sympathetic boyfriend rather than her Lord & Savior.

  137. seventiesjason says:

    Thanks for your reply Scott, sounds like a real “welcoming” place for people who have no idea about Orthodoxy. How does one learn? Invite only? Initiation? DO you “go to a webpage and read about it” and the show off your knowledge the next Sunday….and then maybe someone in the congregatuion will maybe talk to you?

  138. Scott says:

    seventies-

    Before I was Orthodox (about 43 years give or take), any time I and my family would move to a new town, one of the things we would do was shop around for a new home church. This process was especially open ended after I left the Church of Christ and was married to Mychael. The army moved me every two to three years, so we became quite used to this procedure.

    A Presbyterian church here, a Methodist church there. We would settle on a church that “felt right” to us and had a good music program (I am a musician/song leader), had something for our kids, and of course, it had to be “biblical” or “Bible based” and so on. It had to be “growing” and not “luke warm.” There needed to be “fruit.”

    I understand this is the way things are done by a huge majority of American Christians who are not Catholic or Orthodox.

    But the Orthodox church does not need to market itself or make itself “relevant” and all that stuff, because it does not see its role just another denomination that is trying to bring people in. She is the oldest form of the Christian faith on the planet.

    If you are a seeker, (or a catechumen which is the next step up) the first thing you have to do is get out of the mind set of “why didn’t they approach me and welcome me and sit down with me and encourage me to ask questions…”

    That is focus on the individual as the arbiter of what is right or wrong. And that’s not why they are there. They are striving for holiness, pure and simple.

    Any priest in an Orthodox church whom you approach and say “I am interested in Orthodoxy, where do I start?” will begin with a very slow, methodical process designed to meet you where you are in the journey. But its not a denomination that you just start attending, get your old church to vouch for you and start plugging in. You are seen, at this point in your journey as someone who has come in contact with Christ, and you may even love Him, but no matter what you learned in your [x years as a protestant] you have never received the sacraments, which are the food that fuels a Christian.

    I went through it and it was a big pill of humility. A seminary trained protestant who could throw around Bible verses with the best of them–sure of my of salvation through grace and looking down my nose at those old liturgical traditions as if I knew something. I walked into one of these churches–incense burning, weird languages, WAAAAAY TOO LONG of a “service”– thinking I was going to be struck dead for even being near people praying to the saints for intercession.

    So, I would just approach the priest and ask him where to begin. He will be thrilled to help. But I cannot get you where you need to be on the internet. Its stupid for that.

  139. Sharkly says:

    “why didn’t they approach me and welcome me and sit down with me and encourage me to ask questions…”
    That is focus on the individual as the arbiter of what is right or wrong. And that’s not why they are there. They are striving for holiness, pure and simple.

    Striving to be so holy in fact, that they have to be rude, unwelcoming, inhospitable, and aloof from brother, or at least their “neighbor”, Jason. LOL
    I’m not buying that.
    While I too am curious about the various orthodox churches, I’ve seen and heard of non-Chad single guys getting the aforementioned treatment in plain old protestant churches too, and when I once inquired at a singles group, as to “why didn’t you girls talk to my friends, now they refuse to come back”, the girls replied that they were so all about being holy that they wanted to save the lost so bad, that they did not have any time for my already saved friends. LOL They had no problem talking to me. And those wimmenszz were not that holy. None of them knew the Bible worth squat, in spite of all their “Bible studies”.
    By their fruit you will know them. If they seem unfriendly, they likely are.

  140. “…men are prone to shame. If anyone knew how often men, without question, think they’re not good enough, think they’re failures, think they’ll never measure up, think they cannot win, it would blow their mind.”

    So far so good, Pastor Chandler.

    But he left out the number one flaw that men are routinely shamed for in today’s western culture, including by Christian clergy. The inability of a man to be able to seduce women.

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2018/03/16/why-game-is-a-threat-to-our-values/

  141. ChristianCool says:

    I was sent this video by a friend:

    Did you guys see this video above from PragerU?? It basically say some truths (women want masculine men, men will not “stop being men” because they have been feminized by the left, it calls on men to embrace masculinity, etc).

    The video calls on men to “step up”, “man up”, if you will. Sounds good to me. I am for masculine, strong men.

    Now, we know Dennis Prager (the guy who commissioned that video above) has called for men to “marry up the sluts”, since it is “good for the economy” 🙄

    (Here is the article that got me hooked on Dalrock’s wisdom, a brilliant article regarding Prager and Wilcox demanding men “man up” and marry some slut for national economic benefit, regardless of the dire CONSEQUENCES for men who follow their advice:
    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2017/02/20/will-wilcox-and-the-men-of-national-review-respect-you-in-the-morning/ )!!

    The problem, as you can imagine is: WHY SHOULD MEN DO IT? What is in it for the men that “step up”?

    That is what I asked my friend who sent me that video. She initially freaked out by my question, she was confused and after many tries, she finally said, “well, God wants them to be great men and family men”. I said “ok, fair enough”, but “what is the societal and daily-life rewards for men who “step up”, marry some woman, have kids, work ungodly number of hours each week to support the wife and kids”? She once again faltered and was confused by my question. She could not understand “the reward” part of it…. after all, simply having a woman in a man’s life is the reward itself. *sigh* 😆 Gotta laugh.

    Reality: as we all know, the rewards are extremely few for men to “step up” and be the masculine warrior/protector, provider, over-achiever that men CAN be. Men look at cost-benefits to everything in life. Think about the amount of WORK a man has to endure to become educated or start a profitable business (provider), to become muscular, weapon-trained, and assertive (protector), and to overcome huge hurdles of modern work-life (over-achiever). The woman simply comes in and EXPECTS the man will handle everything.

    That is how it was in the past, when a man would reap HUGE benefits for becoming the man the video calls us to be. We married a woman who was either a virgin or with a low-notch count. We were viewed as great and successful men for being married and having kids, a house, and a car…. the “bourgeoisie middle class” American Dream. Wew received respect and admration by our communities and churches. We got jobs that paid decent wages that could support a family.

    Once upon a time, many companies would actually prefer to hire married men because they were viewed as responsible providers, stable individuals, and individuals who would work hard to keep their job and sustain their families. This is no longer the case. In fact, an HR manager told me his company often worries about married individuals because they are under greater pressure and stress from “home life” and the worry the man might become crippled by a bad divorce.

    Fathers and husbands are no longer honored in our culture as they once were. Having kids, much less good successful kids is also not highly regarded or appreciated in our society. Fathers and husbands are openly mocked in TV commercials. Just pay attention to a few ads showing a father or husband and you will see they are always homely, fat, goofy, stupid, incompetent, and Beta. Homer Simpson is the standard view of a modern man, by the leftist media and the corporate elites (especially a modern husband or father) in America today.

    Do you remember back in the 1980s and 1990s when you often saw “my child is an honor student” or “my child is a varsity player” stickers on cars and minivans all the time?

    How often do you see such stickers anymore today? 😦 I rarely see them and I live in a very Conservative area in middle America, where it is mostly married families with kids. There seems to be no more pride in having an honor student or varsity player child. And that is a sad reality.

    I am not going to even delve into the too-common HELL that is a divorce in modern America today. That is a man’s ultimate fear, to be forced out of his home by a lying woman’s accusation of abuse/violence, to have his kids taken away, and to have his income and financial future stolen from him. To become a man living as a slave in a plantation, his imprisonment enforced by whip-crackers known as the Family Courts and its taxpayer funded army of Court enforcers. This is probably the greatest impediment to marriage and even masculine fatherhood in the West today.

    It is all good to want man to embrace masculinity, to be strong, and to be courageous, as long as the man does this FOR HIS OWN BENEFIT and for God’s honor. It is a whole other to do this for a woman’s sake or for society’s sake!!!

    Never my friends, as a man, allow yourself to become someone and do things for the sake of a woman or what others in our feminist society expect (and often demands) you do. “Shame” is a tool that the Feminists and the left use to trap the best men in our societies. Doing things for the sake of “society” or women is not masculinity; that is a Beta male mentality. And such a beta man will not receive the respect from society and will not receive any benefits associated with “doing the right thing”. He will only reap misery upon himself and cause himself endless suffering.

    Focus on becoming masculine for your own benefit and your own sake. That is the only way to survive the onslaught of FemiNazism in the West today. Become great for yourself and rewards will surely follow, so long as you never become trapped by Marriage 2.0 or by the demands of others. A man LEADS, so make your own path and carve your own way.

    (I am off my soapbox, now. Be strong!). 😀

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