Patriarchal packs (part 1)?

Larry Kummer continues his analysis of the war between the sexes at Fabius Maximus in his most recent post Men standing together can end the gender wars.

Radical feminists have captured major institutions, using them to implement their ideology. Men have respond like frightened sheep. This has allowed feminists to implement drastic changes to America with blinding speed, as social changes go. Almost all the institutions in America have joined the new orthodoxy, from the Boy Scouts to conservative Christian organizations. (see here and here). So the men who rebel are outlaws. They craft solutions as individuals, such as Game and MGTOW (men going their own way).

As promised, Larry has moved from analysis to solutions.  One thread he is exploring is men’s natural tendency to form into packs, given the right stimulus:

But there is always a counter-revolution. Now – slowly – automatic systems engage, driving behaviors hard-wired into men. These are the equivalent of a BIOS – the instructions in a pc’s permanent memory. When attacked, men band together into packs. Tight groups with common beliefs and goals, respected leaders, and willingness to act. Not organizations, run with Roberts Rules of Order and committees. Packs, like wolves.

Larry doesn’t harbor any delusions that this will automatically lead to good outcomes:

Pack formation is a hard-wired process, and like all such it is amoral. It produces biker gangs, inner city gangs, and organized crime networks as easily as reform movements. See how the fasces’ glorious history was contaminated by its adoption by Italy’s fascists. The difference between a failed State and a successful one is how this process works.

I think Larry is right that packs will play a powerful role in whatever comes next.  As he observes, exactly what kind of packs form and the nature of their impact is not something we can hope to accurately predict. One troubling aspect of this is that as it stands there is a strong bias toward “outlaw” packs, as men are effectively legally forbidden from creating men only organizations.  To rework a phrase from the gun debate, when male packs are outlawed, only outlaws will form (and join) male packs.

The other unknown is how married beta men will respond to the packs. It would seem that to some degree we should expect beta married men to attempt to respond with their own packs, and the form this takes will depend on the strength of the government. Ironically it takes a strong and ordered government with a high degree of male trust to create the specific kind of disorder we are currently experiencing.  So far beta married men have formed a de facto pack to enforce the matriarchy. Outlaw packs of other men might cause them to double down in this regard, and this is what I would expect under current conditions.  However, if the formal government loses enough of the confidence of married betas it could encourage them to meet the threat on more of their own terms.

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134 Responses to Patriarchal packs (part 1)?

  1. SnapperTrx says:

    Recently listening to an Aaron Clarey podcast in which someone wrote him a letter asking if men forming “packs” would have an affect on society to which he replied that he felt it would, but that forming USEFUL packs of men is inherently difficult. For himself he lamented that the only men he would deem worthy of being included in a pack, ones that actually provided benefit to being in said pack, were spread throughout the country, and that no one in close proximity would be anything other than dead weight. I can see this being true, as many men don’t have any real value to bring into a pack. I mean, if the average guy is overweight and under strength’d (not a word, I know), apathetic and has zero drive to do anything then whats the point of a pack?

    I’m not saying its a bad idea. I have been really considering trying to form a group of men willing to get together to do “guy things” (ie: shooting, weights, etc.) along with spending time together studying and discussing the bible, but have put the idea on hold due to problems in my own household.

  2. The Question says:

    Jack Donovan advised in a speech a few years back that “the new barbarians” needed to just act and not talk about it. You don’t send out a press release or website declaring your intent to form a male-only group. Just do it quietly, discreetly, and implicitly.

  3. Pingback: Patriarchal packs (part 1)? | @the_arv

  4. vfm7916 says:

    I’d attend a men-only church.

    Packs, in this case, must act as 4GW entities as per Creveld and Lind. That means informal associations, avoid fixed structures or logistic chains, informal support and absolute enforcement of informal pack rules.

    It also means winning on the moral basis of warfare. This is not conventional morality or stupid chivalry, but make your opponent appear as the bully or aggressor in the conflict. The true Alt-Right (as opposed to Fake-Right NatSoc’s) gained far more power against Antifa when they did this. When they failed to heed the lesson is when they lost that sanction.

  5. Gunner Q says:

    Larry has a habit of disregarding religion in his discussion of solutions. If correct Christianity does not become the dominant religion once again then it really doesn’t matter how much men organize.

    This means that the best way to push back against modern problems is to expose false religions, specifically Evolution since that’s the dominant one in the West today. Everybody, even “Christians” are convinced that life has no Creator and we came into existence through random processes for no reason at all. That makes it hard to seek an ideological goal over personal goals of victory and full stomachs.

    Also, making plans with no accounting for God’s Will is a reliable source of useless plans. He’s not as absent as the lack of miracles suggests.

  6. seventiesjason says:

    Eh……..not against them per say or the idea of. Men today would ruin it. They would spend most of their time trying to “out alpha” each other (I saw this quickly in a prepper group I briefly belonged to…….decided these guys in SHTF situation would get me, and all of us kiled quickly….lone wolf is better for me). It would turn quickly into MGTOW……spending more time puttiing each other down than actually GTOW.

    Or…all it would take is a woman packin’ heat in the previous thread or one of the guys gets a *hot* girlfriend and suddenly “she’s one of the guys” and the dynamic will change……and the usual gang o’ men saying “NAWALT”

    I mean, looking at that chick Alexndra Blue. She just says “oh, i said some wrong things about men” and all the comments “you’re hot, and apology accepted” nonsense.

    In today’s world for the most part it work if it was done in the traditional sense of a “rod n reel” “fish and game” type of club. A pack with some sort of connected hobby / interest and that hobby was the focus……..trust built, then genuine friendships, then real solutions / band of brothers type of thing…..but it will take action……look at our churches today. Getting a man-of-God to even step up in my church…..and we’re SPECIFICALLY raised to do this…….to help with street ministry, feeding the poor, going out late of night speaking truth is super hard. Every man is “busy” and has the Homer Simpson attitude of “let someone else do it” or “I’m a alpha, I don’t do stuff like that”

  7. vfm7916 says:

    @seventies

    Very correct on the addition of women. As Larry hopes, as the pack trend gets more successful women will want to join. The rule that must be enforced, even to immediate expulsion, is that the women are not involved with the pack. If they want to form a social group outside, but with other women who are linked to pack men, then ok. But they don’t participate in the pack, period. Otherwise, as noted, things fall apart.

    As for AMOG’ing, that’s when you know you’ve got ego issues. It’ll also drive failure, as AMOG types can’t resist trying to declare their true leadership. When they do they’ll get burned down by the media. We’ve seen countless examples of that.

    Their packs will not be successful. There will be informal organizations that work, however, and there will be successful packs with leaders who understand that maintaining a low profile is the best course of action in the current political environment.

  8. seventiesjason says:

    Many western states have this fraternal organization that has the following “unspoken” rules.

    *No women.
    *No whining.
    *No gossip.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_Clampus_Vitus

    I went to one of these “gatherings” back in 2012. My Boy Scout Troop was passing through Murphys, CA and I bumped into a member of this order at small “general store” and he invited me up to a gathering.

    Hard drinking guys…but they were cool if you were” temperate”
    Ronald Reagan was a member. Its a loose organization that focuses more on partying, celebration than on “solving the problems” of this fine state. Bunch of roundy but solid men…..

  9. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    SnapperTrx: Recently listening to an Aaron Clarey podcast in which someone wrote him a letter asking if men forming “packs” would have an affect on society

    It’s effect, not affect.

  10. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Gunner Q: This means that the best way to push back against modern problems is to expose false religions, specifically Evolution…

    I see no conflict between Christianity and evolution. Indeed, I think evolutionary theory reinforces Christianity, because the creation story in Genesis roughly parallels evolution. From the Big Bang, to the formation of the heavenly stars and the earth, to the oceans, the land, the plants, the animals, and finally man.

    Genesis is unlike the fanciful creation myths found in pagan religions that bear no relation to evolutionary discoveries.

  11. Oscar says:

    OT: Once again, I am so confused.

  12. Mega says:

    Just got caught up (read comments at FB) and don’t buy this “pack” nonsense. Some good discussion though so I’ll comment on that. First … the comment about women respecting some “packs” … like biker gangs or “bad boy” outlaw types … and will say I had a laugh over that because Dal nailed it. I was a member of the a Churchian singles group awhile back and we were discussing dating within the group when one of the most attractive girls mentioned dating someone in a motorcycle gang. I kid you not ! She thought he was HOT, the bikers were HOT … but it was a Christian biker gang … so it was OK !!! … who evidently gave out “toys for tots” at Xmas or some such thing. She shit on every male in the single’s group (not good enough) but thinks a biker in a motorcycle gang is HOT. 10 years older than her, bald, tatted out, works some shitty dead end job … you can’t make this stuff up. She discarded her “biker boyfriend” though … because he was divorced and would be paying support to his Ex and his kids for the next 15-18 years and was therefore broke and would be broke for years to come. Not good husband material, evidently. Yeah … AF … looking for the BB or what I like to refer to as AB Alpha with Bucks … which by the way … pretty much doesn’t exist. Cause you’re a AB … why would you want someone like her ? And yeah … turns out her Harley riding not good enough boyfriend … did so and acted like an outlaw … BECAUSE HE DIDN”T GIVE A F ANYMORE … so might as well ride a death machine on the weekend … because all the rest of the time … he was a slave working to support wife/kids he can’t see or be a parent too. Borderline suicidal, probably.

    But I think the big problem is Larry just doesn’t understand men or their nature. And, yeah, that is pretty typical of Churchian men, sad to say. For example … it took Dal to point out men form gangs (packs) to break the law. Men also form gangs to avoid being harmed or killed. That’s probably news to Larry too. Anyone here ever been inside a prison ? Wanna know how things are organized inside a prison ? I heard a phrase one time that struck me .. “Guards exist at a prison to make sure nobody escapes … what happens on the inside ? As long as their isn’t a riot, they don’t care.” Or something like that anyway. Point is … inside a prison … the entire prison actually … is run by gangs … there is really nobody in charge. White gangs. Black gangs. Mexican gangs. They make the rules and settle disputes. That’s the BIOS programming he’s talking about … it just doesn’t work the way he thinks.

    For example … if a white guy gets sent to prison and he quickly learns he needs to join the local chapter of the white skin heads or he will be gang raped and stabbed by mexicans who hates him because he’s white … and a white cop arrested him … so all the white guys quickly sign up for that deal. But if you’re lawyer says you gotta pay 50% of your salary for the next 18 years … and ITS ALL FOR THE CHILDREN !!!! And its the law … and society says its ok … then, he’s not gonna do anything.

    Men’s BIOS programming makes them protect women and children. They aren’t the enemy. Are not and never will be. Hell, most domestic violence incidents are created or instigated by women. And how often do men call the cops ? Yeah … mr pack member … you’re a cop and have a dick like me … come help me !!! Think those phone calls are common ? No, what usually happens is the women goes berserk … gets drunk and goes postal, shoots him, stabs him, hits him over the head with a bowling ball, kills the cat, and burns the house down … THEN AND ONLY THEN DOES HE REACH OUT TO HIS PACK FOR HELP. And then the dude usually gets arrested anyway. So much for your pack helping you.

    Its kinda like when you’re 12 years old and some bully at the school says “Meet me at the bike rack at 3pm and we’ll fight it out” … do you meet him to stand up for your self ? Or do you meet him with 5 of your buddies so you can fight him 6 to 1 … your pack mates ? Kinda wonder if Larry ever had someone challenge him like that … maybe he was too busy being an alter boy.

    Here is another sign of Larry’s cluelessness when it comes to men and how they behave. Dal referred to an article at the Federalist recently (http://thefederalist.com/2018/04/09/want-men-church-stop-treating-contempt/) … and that’s a good bit. Reminded me of the experiences I had in church … and why I left. Here is what Larry doesn’t realize … lets say he goes to a Church … a Christen Church … it doesn’t matter which one and he approaches other men there. I have a dick and you do to, so lets band together and become a pack … we got common interests !!! There is power in numbers !!! We can make a difference !!! Lets take on Feminism and get society to treat men fairly !!!

    Anyone who reads this blog already knows … EVERY MAN WOULD SIDE WITH HIS WIFE … BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE ONLY MEN LEFT. And he’d side with the Church which is already preaching Feminism from the pulpate. Your fellow men … THEY DO NOT CARE. They will side with their wives … its “for the children” … the church says its ok … the law says its ok … society says its ok … sorry dude, you’re on your own. That is the answer every man will get. Yes, they may acknowledge the situation is screwed up (and probably dreading the date his wife nukes his marriage and hopes God intervenes …) But YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN. Its why I walked away from my church. Until it becomes life or death for them. You’re on your own.

    What Larry doesn’t get is other men don’t care. Unless its crisis for them … LIKE THEIR ACTUAL LIFE IS IN DANGER … otherwise they don’t care. Hell, for most men … even if their life is in danger … they’d worry about providing for THEIR WIFE AND THEIR KIDS AFTER HE”S GONE … the dude in his “pack” … that dude is not on even on the radar. And actually … that’s why life insurance exists … even if I go down fighting my family will be taken care of after I’m gone. Do they have life insurance for members of your “pack” ??? LOL, of course they don’t. Cause nobody cares.

    The thing is … they don’t care about you … other men … they think that its your job to take care of you … so man the eff up. Same deal as “man up and marry the sluts” garbage they preach at you. Exactly the same deal actually … “man up and marry the sluts” … if you did that … would likely end up with you RUINING THE REMAINDER OF YOUR LIFE … and think any of these men care ? No they don’t. They don’t care if Feminism ruined you or the divorce court ruined you or if you are now a slave working to support kids you can’t be a parent too … while your Ex brainwashes them to hate you. THEY DO NOT CARE AND ARE NOT WILLING TO HELP YOU. In fact, they tell you the worst advice there is … “Man up and marry another slut …”

    That’s what Larry doesn’t seem to understand. The men he expects to join your “pack” and fight Feminism are the same men telling you to “man up and marry the 3 time divorcee, with 3 kids, who’s broke, has no job, is seriously overweight, and has a drinking problem”. Oh and one of her Ex’s is in jail … because she falsely accused him of “abuse” because she wanted custody of the kids. NOW MAN UP !!!

    Sorry for the Rant. After nearly a decade … I’m still looking for a solution as to how to change things, reverse the damage, or at least make things better. Haven’t found anything yet. And Larry’s pack idea will work no better than anything else.

    Actually, the best thing I’ve heard so far is to create all male churches. Not sure how that would work though …

  13. Boxer says:

    Jack Donovan advised in a speech a few years back that “the new barbarians” needed to just act and not talk about it. You don’t send out a press release or website declaring your intent to form a male-only group. Just do it quietly, discreetly, and implicitly.

    My immediate thoughts also: Larry read The Way of Men and is now graycycling some of its concepts.

  14. SCC says:

    This is the conclusion I come to as well.

    I think it will look like organized crime. Or at some of it will. But it’s a militia. Kind of like what David formed when on the run from Saul.

    I think it’s necessary, and I’d join. Scratch that. I will join.

  15. Boxer says:

    OT: Once again, I am so confused.

    Disgusting. My heart goes out to that poor child.

  16. BJ says:

    I do think it is interesting how men form groups by nature. It is the way we have been designed to hedge against the inherent dangers of the world. There is security in numbers. We were created this way.

    But I also think there is something to be said of building a group or community, if you will, that has longevity, something that lasts longer than the alpha male who holds it together a present. A community that is self-replicating and not beholden to one leader is far more stable than something driven by a single man. Prior to the feminist movements of the 1910s and 1920s, that is largely what we had in the West. Whether it was the Boy Scouts, or sports teams, or Fraternities, or church groups, these institutions gave guidance and responsibility to young men. It gave a sense of sex roles to the young women. It taught both male and female how to interact in a way that made sense for the wider culture. They weren’t perfect, by any means, but they worked.

    I think building these kind of community groups is far preferable to the thug gang types mentioned here. Perhaps I am a bit naive, but I still hold out hope that some of our institutions can survive, or at best some newer institutions can be build to replace the failed ones. Who knows…

  17. Boxer says:

    Whether it was the Boy Scouts, or sports teams, or Fraternities, or church groups, these institutions gave guidance and responsibility to young men.

    They also served a very important social function, in that they tended to ontologically immunize fatherless kids (be they born as bastards, or orphans) from repeating the cycle. I have argued that one specific feminist goal was weakening men through the dissolution of these institutional apparati.

    The hatred of the feminist knows no limits. They love inflicting needless suffering on men of all ages, and specifically target the most vulnerable whenever they can. Never forgive, never forget.

    Boxer

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  19. seventiesjason says:

    build what BJ?

    The courts would have *forced* ther BSA to go coed if they didn’t do it themselves…..I saw it coming for years. Hiring women at the BSA camps, giving *allowences* and *special treatment* to women running Boy Scoutg Troops because “men won’t man up today, women are stepping up to fill the gap”

    I was a Scoutmaster forf seven years. One boy brought his sister to one meeting and suddenly every week she startes coming. I explained it was a “boys organization” and the BSA at that time informed me “she can sit in at the meetings, there is nothing that says that isn’t allowed”

    Incrementalism.

    Supper clubs, social groups / civiv groups (the Elks, for example….they allowed women in….and it became a social services organization…… and declaring a belief in God suddenly removed). Male only gyms. Even men only hotels or boarding houses are not allowed unless its a “half-way house” and even at places like that WOMEN are allowed to be EMPLOYED there.

    Fraternities at many colleges have been *made* coed. Debating societies. Everything has to let women join……or else!!!!!

    In a sense it will have to be organized loosely like MGTOW, and honestly speaking on this, if it was going to work………all comments on this groups pages by ANY woman would be deleted. No exceptions. NONE. A firm message of “look, read up all you want, but you are not allowed to comment”

    Any group today that started would be FORCED to be coed today BJ and hsitory has already shown this. There can be no more “reaching across the gender chasm” we did that and most men……even the ones who (cough) claim they are alpha (meaning they get laid on a regular basis) put their sack on the chopping block willingly for a few seconds of bliss and being naked with a woman……and these are men I am supposed to emulate.

    No thanks

  20. Anonymous Reader says:

    Rather a disappointment. Larry promised solution(s) that the manosphere had not dreamed of, and came up some combination of Jack Donovan’s “gangs” and the 1990’s “drum circle” in the woods.

    Not a surprise, though. I’m missing Zed and Anonymous Aged 70+ from Spearhead right about now…

    So “packs”, eh? Paging Robert Bly…

    Iron John was published in 1990, 28 years ago. A bit dated because of not enough Red Pill, but still worth reading, along with the work of Warren Farrell, such as this book from 1993 (25 years ago).

    Mild mannered Farrell was the cause of a major public meltdown by Canadian feministas a few years back – he dared to come to Canada to give a speech in an auditorium. One would have thought he was really there to personally put Handmaid’s Tale into effect by sheer force of will, going by the hysteria (heh) in the streets outside.

  21. seventiesjason says:

    peter lloyd from the UK has been the best help for me of late………..lol……I remember that whole thing of “men beating drums” back in the early 1990’s……at that time, those men were well into their thirties……and I thought they were chumps, and to me it looked like some 1970’s ‘senmsitive man’ movement remarketed fro the 1990’s. Instead of a perm on a man, Gap or LL bean clothing……..sigh……miss the 1990’s

  22. seventiesjason says:


    notice the seething daggers of hatred freom the Lady MacBeth commentator here.

  23. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Regarding Iron John, in the 1995 film Search and Destroy, Dennis Hopper plays a Robert Bly type character; an author/guru whose book is called Daniel Strong.

    I’ve never read Iron John, but I’ve seen Search and Destroy several times. Very good film.

  24. Mega says:

    Nice vid post Jason … starting around the 2:15 marks its priceless … the male interviewer: Have you been hurt ? What started this off ? Is this just a big revenge trip ? That interviewer has NO SYMPATHY OR CARING FOR THAT GUY AT ALL. And needless to say … he ain’t signing up to be on that man’s pack. And here is what people are trying to say … do you think that interviewer has no idea what’s going on ? That he’s never been divorced ? Never had a brother or neighbor or coworker divorced. Never seen a man have his kids stolen from him or seen a woman make up lies to get what she wants … because she will never be held accountable ? HE KNOWS THE SCORE, BUT DEFENDS THE STATUS QUO ANYWAY.

  25. Sharkly says:

    I like this topic. As I am a man of action, I believe something needs to be done, and it is I who should be doing it! It beats that thread where a hundred guys all weigh in on how we shouldn’t be giving so much attention to one attention seeking woman. LOL

    First off we need to remember that we want to change the prevailing thought, culture, laws and what is acceptable in society. We will need both men and women and especially children to adopt our cause. We need a powerful few, and a majority of the masses of useful idiots. In a democracy, the side with the most fools wins. We need to make it clear that Feminism and moral and family breakdown is the enemy, not women, frivolously divorced single moms, Beta males, or Feminism’s dupes. Nobody is our enemy, the enemy is the foolish deception of Feminism. Everybody should eventually be able to come over to our side, and feel welcomed like they were never one of the Feminist fools.

    I think we need to form multiple organizations. We need an inclusive secular organization, A slightly militant secular organization, we need a real honest to God church that does not compromise the Bible an inch on Feminism, and we need anti-Feminism evangelists, who can lead secular rallies against the sexist deceptions of Feminism. We need to mock feminism publicly and vocally, not spitefully or angrily, but with a real good humor and hearty laughter. We need to cast it as a dangerous and harmful sexist ideology of misandry based on made up or overblown anecdotes about rare instances of “abuse”. We can’t let Satan and his crazy cat ladies, via Feminism, rob children of their fathers, wives of good husbands, and destroy the holy perfection of the two sexes God created.

    It sounds like some of you have given up before you’ve begun, or have lost your will to fight, or would rather fight amongst yourselves. That is wrong! Take Courage!

    It was answered, that all great and honorable actions are accompanied with great difficulties, and must be both enterprised and overcome with answerable courages. ~William Bradford

    It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat. ~Theodore Roosevelt

    We have the opportunity to spend ourselves in a worthy cause! We’re on a mission from God! We’re here to make it cool to be Pro-Patriarchy again! Remember folks, I was Pro-Patriarchy before it was cool.

    One man with courage makes a majority. ~Andrew Jackson

    Stand upright, speak thy thoughts, declare the truth thou hast, that all may share; be bold, proclaim it everywhere: They only live who dare. ~Voltaire

    Fortune favors the bold. ~Virgil

    The opportunity is often lost by deliberating. ~Syrus

    We need to get our cultural revolution going, before the youth join some stupid revolution aimed at further destruction of the benefits of civilization that flow from Christendom. Our campaign of gender normality, man respecting, virtue loving, marriage & family reinforcing, Christian Patriarchy has got to be out there so that the Muslims aren’t the only anti-Feminist option for the boys scorned by Feminism for not being girls. Change is the only constant. We together must engage society, pushing in the right and wrong ways and every way in between, away from Feminism, so that when change shifts in society things will go back God’s way, as much as possible. I propose the true Man of God church push in the right ways, and our militant secular brothers can use civil disobedience and wrong ways to help the cause, while our Man Friendly, all inclusive group gradually enlist the masses to come along as fellow travelers, back to what works, the backbone of all civilized societies, the traditional Patriarchal family.

    If we are to be honored as men, first we must learn to show honor for each other as men and be examples of honoring other men in society.

    Romans 12:10 Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor.

    I read too much petty reviling here on this blog.(I know most are worse)(and I’ve spent a lifetime reviling myself) We shoo away the women to create a male space, and then we bash each other as much as the male bashing Feminists, and we often do it over such trivial differences. It makes us look like a bunch of hurt puppies lashing out at each other.

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

    So, My respect and “Props” to all you great men of the Dalrock Blog! I salute you glorious men who strive to make society greater and to honor God and men. You do a noble service by coming here and publishing your truth and sharing your wisdom. Thank you all! And may God the Father, who created you in His own divine image, bless you with even more much deserved honor both now and in the life to come, by the grace of His only begotten Son Jesus Christ. Amen!

  26. Dave says:

    So far beta married men have formed a de facto pack to enforce the matriarchy. Outlaw packs of other men might cause them to double down in this regard, and this is what I would expect under current conditions.

    True. Or an observable progress being made by the outlaw packs might encourage these betas to take the risk to jump ship. Just as many married, previously beta men, have taken the red pill, and gone MGTOW, when they sensed that MGTOW was gaining ground.

    I believe the packs are already forming. Even this website is one. In time, I believe it will become more cohesive and consequential.

    Larry has a habit of disregarding religion in his discussion of solutions. If correct Christianity does not become the dominant religion once again then it really doesn’t matter how much men organize.

    Wholeheartedly agree. I’d even go further to state that the only hope for America and the world is a genuine revival of true religion. Anything less will be short-lived, and will be powerless against the satanically empowered movements of these last days.

    God Himself has no other solutions to man’s problems, other than:
    1. His word–faithfully preached; faithfully lived.
    2. Effectual prayers for His intervention in human affairs.

    Eh……..not against them per say or the idea of. Men today would ruin it. They would spend most of their time trying to “out alpha” each other

    Possible, but, again, this is not likely to stop these spontaneously forming packs.
    Men have an insatiable predilection for order. Many wars, competitions, etc. are a result of man’s desire to determine orderliness in society; they want to determine the leader and the led, and violence must be employed, if necessary, to make this happen. Even the AMOG mentality is actually an inherent part of true masculinity and desire for orderliness, because each Alpha must defend his claims, or be dethroned, and this process must go on, until the true, undefeated leader emerges, to which everyone else now submits.
    It is actually very good for the pack, because the leader would then be the strongest, wisest, boldest and baddest, and the best to organize the pack to withstand external aggression.

  27. Scott says:

    I have something like a “pack.” About 6 men I know from the manosphere that I have actually met in person. We have never all been in the same room together. (Which, as someone upthread pointed out is the biggest problem).

    A couple of them are not married and are interested in finding godly wives.

    There are a few rules that seemed to have formed, naturally within our discussions (we email/text pretty regularly).

    1. You can disagree with a married mans decision that he has made in his home, but you can NEVER second guess his authority to make it.
    2. All manner of jokes (think locker room style) are OK, always.
    3. Don’t blow smoke up the asses of non-married men about their one-itis. (And the probability that they will not find what they are looking for).
    4. No white knighting, ever.
    5. Discuss serious matters within the context of Christian faith and values.
    6. Its Ok to ask for prayers from each other.

    Those rules just kind of evolved all by themselves. It’s nice, but it needs a next step. I have no idea what.

  28. earl says:

    1. You can disagree with a married mans decision that he has made in his home, but you can NEVER second guess his authority to make it.

    This should be stamped on every cuckservative, evangelical pastor, and white knight in government.

  29. Pariah says:

    I like what you have to say, Sharkly. We need to be men of action. If we only ever talk about these issues without physically taking action then barely anything positive will get done. It should begin with all of us men who are Christian and red-pilled getting alone before God and praying that God would change the situation. God is sovereign. We need to hear from God what it is that He wants each and every one of us to do – what part each of us is to take in this endeavour. There certainly is a need for red-pilled preachers and evangelists who will begin to plant red-pilled churches, and spread the truth, without compromising on feminism.

  30. Magneto2975 says:

    The man-centered pack that has already formed is called “Islam”, and it is coming here to America to fill in the ever-expanding vacuum. Get ready for it.

  31. Scott says:

    Earl—

    To expand a bit on rule number one, because it is sort of the main principle upon which the group revolves.

    It is always best to wait for a brother to ASK for advice or input on a decision he is about to make or has already made.

    And if you are going to be critical of it, never do so in front of his wife.

    Of course, that second part is not really an issue because to the best of my knowledge no one has ever invited his wife into one of these text/email threads.

  32. Scott says:

    Earl—

    To expand a bit on rule number one, because it is sort of the main principle upon which the group revolves.

    It is always best to wait for a brother to ASK for advice or input on a decision he is about to make or has already made.

    And if you are going to be critical of it, never do so in front of his wife.

    Of course, that second part is not really an issue because to the best of my knowledge no one has ever invited his wife into one of these text/email threads.

  33. Lost Patrol says:

    One troubling aspect of this is that as it stands there is a strong bias toward “outlaw” packs, as men are effectively legally forbidden from creating men only organizations. To rework a phrase from the gun debate, when male packs are outlawed, only outlaws will form (and join) male packs.

    I’m not sure this is a bad thing. It may make more “outlaws”, but they will be non-traditional bearers of that title. Rule following and generally upright citizen outlaws that have been pushed too far into the corner. Beta men, that have been harried onto the outlaw trail by the relentless efforts to demean and marginalize them. The whole process can give them some outlaw swagger that comes in handy for pushing back against the narrative.

    Having already used “outlaw” to excess I should probably stop now, but this may be just the feisty attitude we want to cultivate.

  34. Spike says:

    Thought provoking as usual, Dalrock.
    One of the early MGTOWs, No Ma’am, said something interesting in one of his articles about this, He said, “Beta Men – the competent ones – built and ran everything in civilization”. The onset of civilization, to him as I understood it, meant the decline of the Alpha Male with his harem or herd of sexually subjected females and monogamy was born because Betas built the economic system and in the process, marriage. It is interesting too that Jordan Peterson defines Patriarchy as the “combined sum of all male competence”.
    As feminists keep hammering away at Patriarchy and denigrating the Beta Male, who runs everything due to his civilised competence, things will start to break down. Things will go unrepaired, from buildings to humans. The welfare state will increase. This will mean that a tipping point gets reached.
    A divorced Beta Male will not double don. He will, sooner or later, be angry enough to tell the system to get stuffed, and when enough of it happens, the tipping point will happen. He will join the pack.

  35. Otto Lamp says:

    OT, but right up Dalrock alley:

    Headline: “Rise of ‘Gray’ Divorce Forces Financial Reckoning After 50”

    Conclusion: “Too many women let husbands make the long-term financial decisions, leaving them vulnerable when separation or death strikes.”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-13/rise-of-gray-divorce-forces-financial-reckoning-after-50

  36. Jim says:

    A couple of them are not married and are interested in finding godly wives.

    So they’re still trying to win the lottery eh? Yes people have won the lottery true but a person’s chances are incredibly slim.

  37. seventiesjason says:

    Okay men……we HAD these orgainizations. The Boy Scouts (even the men, Scoutmasters and leaders had fellowship). We had supper clubs (one of the last ones left in California is here in Fresno, its coednow but it was a “men only” until the late 1970’s). We had church groups and mens felowships. We have these NOW…..and we refuse to lead, challenge and ‘stand up’ in them……

    We had social clubs, like the The Elks……..

    Why talk about these “packs” and “groups” and “forming them” when we HAD them and we allowed them to be taken over………..and right now. RIGHT NOW inside church, we have men’s fellowship and no man does anything……………why??????????????????????????????????????????????

    That would take actual WORK something “alphas” (every man in this forum evidently) refuses to do

  38. seventiesjason says:

    Dave…

    You are mistakling the meaing of “alpha” in todays modern world. Your above reply to me makes it sound like men everyday are clawing in some form of medieval battle for survival of the kingdom.

    Alpha today, in the west….in this culture means the following to all women, and most men:

    “I have the loudest voice. I have the best looks. I have the best ideas because I have an over-inflated ego. I use fancy words.”

    and it ALWAYS defers to this

    “I’ve bedded hot women and I am a ladies man, so everyone should listen to me. I get validation”

    This is my take on it because I am NOT an alpha. I have sat in business meetings at IBM. I have watched / observed in committees at church. Sat in clubs, and organizations……been active in the nightclub and San Francisco’s unbelly of all-nite-warehouse parties……sat in georgian-preppy college buildings of brick and ivy with loosened rep tie………………..

    Always listening to you “alphas” you “supposed” leaders. Always you and your “great” ideas. When they failed? Didn’t pan out right??????? (because many of them were terrible to begin with) Men like me were blamed for “not being a team player” or “not standing behind the leader enough” or “not asking questions about the task” (as if we could, or were made to look stupid for DARING to ask…especially if women were in the room)

    A real leader doesn’t have to claim he is an alpha. He just IS.

    My father once said to me offhand about his four years in the USAF

    “Son……air force pilots are brave folks. They actually are pretty smart too. They’re real officers. A sign of leadership I saw consistantly by them was:………….they KNEW I was on the crew that kept that fighter jet in the air. We made sure that jet wasn’t going to fail at critical moments. They had confidence in us, the flight crew. They actually looked us in the eye when they spoke to us. If we did have a LEGITIMATE concern, they listened. They took our assessment seriously. They thanked us. They expected and commanded respect as officers.”

    Today, being a “leader” means “someone in authority told me I was a good leader, therefore I am”

    See it a lot here if truth be told.

  39. purge187 says:

    “So they’re still trying to win the lottery eh? Yes people have won the lottery true but a person’s chances are incredibly slim.”

    As Paul Elam once said, “I’m not saying that there aren’t unicorns out there. But I am saying is that they are, well, unicorns.”

  40. Pingback: Men standing together can end the gender wars

  41. thedeti says:

    under strength’d (not a word, I know),

    out of shape. deconditioned.

    You see this in medical records all the time. Men are described as “well developed”, meaning they’re just typical male bodies with male genitalia, features and ordinary musculature. But they will call them fat and out of shape without saying that. The records refer less to “obese” and more to BMI. And they refer to the flabby, fat and out of shape patient as “deconditioned”, meaning, well, out of shape. He doesn’t exercise. He’s a typical man who lacks body strength, is overweight, eats a diet laden with processed food and fast foods, carrying a lot of belly fat, low T, high estrogen, and has high cholesterol, high triglycerides, high blood pressure, borderline low white blood cell count, and borderline diabetes. All stuff that can be fixed or seriously ameliorated with proper diet, exercise, and lifting. (docs will tell middle aged men not to lift, because the health benefits aren’t there, and to do cardio all the time. But you should do both – cardio and lift.)

  42. Opus says:

    Forty responses so far and not one mention of Robin Hood. Men will bind together when they are outlawed. At the moment I would say that a lot of men are evading what they dislike and keeping their distance, but when that disliked thing is forced on men they will join together to undermine what is hurting them. I would hazard a guess that Christianity in some form will be a part of it; women won’t.

    My ex-Soviet acquaintance says that England is now like the Soviet Union when he left; that is to say one checks who might be listening and only converses openly with those closest. He also said that he would never have predicted when he arrived that within a decade or so the Soviet Union would be gone. Things can happen but I cannot predict what as I am not Anon.

  43. rocko says:

    @mega and seventiesjason

    I got a kick out of this video. I right away noticed something about the male anchor, and please excuse my French. The guy is an asshole, plain and simple. I have no idea if he’s married nor do I give a damn, but he’s such a pussy starved prick he’s willing to go against his own gender just to impress the worn out hag next to him in the hopes she touches his pee pee. On the other hand, he looks like the kind of beta liable to get #meetooed so that balances things out. And yes, look at her. Again, I don’t know if she’s married or not, but if she is, that’s one lucky son of a bitch. I bet sex with her is great and all (sarcasm). If she’s not, she’s pretty bitter herself because Mr Big didn’t propose to her after a good ole pump and dump. Or maybe her face is like that because her half dozen cats have urinated outside the litter box and her condo now smells like Assad just attacked it.

    On the other hand, if this guy is bitter, I don’t blame him. Heck, I only got to proposing my ex and gave her the engagement ring and I’m still admittedly a bit bitter myself. I mean, wouldn’t you guys be if you were told to be nice, clean, hardworking, chivalrous, so the woman of your dreams is ready to marry you, yet after years of hard work, anger, some tears, frustration, and lots of financial debt, things don’t work out because she’s a spoiled pain in the ass. Next thing you know she leaves you for the next catch and now you’re broke, emotionally and financially, not knowing what to do. And now it makes sense why men are going to band together.

  44. Dave says:

    I think we can learn a thing or two from the tail end of the Roman empire, when debauchery was so rampant, and sex (both homo and hetero) was so freely available, men were taxed for not getting married. Did the “few good men” in existence then form outlaw packs? Did they simply go underground? Does anyone know?
    Irrespective of what happened then, I think there is a huge difference now: we have a means of instant communication, which was not available, even to kings, in those days.

  45. seventiesjason says:

    Men bound together in Sweden to attack all the people harassing women at that one train station (migrants) and they were *shamed* and called *racist* for doing this. Standing up. No one defended them…………………

    Ethan Allen and his Green Mountain Boys took Ft Ticonderoga in 1775 without firing a shot (Welsh ruffians). Alpah today doesn’t mean leadership. It measn “ive bedded the most women, therefor I am a leader”

    Leaders or “real alphas” I guess in other times had more opportunties to be one…………..I mean, that faceless soldier who just “became” during a situation in battle. That man who just had a good idea, and everyone else “be dammed” that he wasn’t going to do try it, test it….own it and change the world.

    Today, to me anyway……this was all decided around 5th / 6th grade. People who were groomed or deemed “leaders” and by the time high school rolled around………everyone seemed to know their place.

    I just have watched. I have volunteered to help when asked (committees, clubs in prep school, college…..at church……tasks assigned at work over the deacades. I took what was assigned) and watched some more………my two patents at IBM were awarded for the fact that I didn’t “seek out” the leader for help for the fact I KNEW that the SOB would make it *his* idea and get away with it.

  46. Otto Lamp says:

    “Forty responses so far and not one mention of Robin Hood. Men will bind together when they are outlawed.”

    I was thinking more in term of resistance cells.

  47. thedeti says:

    3. Don’t blow smoke up the asses of non-married men about their one-itis. (And the probability that they will not find what they are looking for).

    I don’t understand this rule. Does this mean married men should not tell nonmarried men the married men have oneitis? Or that the nonmarried men have oneitis for their girlfriends and married men should be blunt about that?

    I agree with the second part. I think most men (married and unmarried) are not going to find what they’re looking for and are not going to get what they want. Most of the time.

  48. Scott says:

    Deti

    I am thinking in terms of their girlfriends.

    I’ve had quite a conversations with red-pilled men who swear that their current girlfriend is not like that/totally tracking and then they break up when red pull topics rubber meets the road in discussions about marriage.

  49. seventiesjason says:

    Look, this isn’t a bad idea per say…………….but there are groups now, and they for the most part are spineless and ineffective………..it will have to be a loose organizational strata (no one man to point at or ‘speak’ for the movement or group a al Paul Elam, or those of his ilk)

    It will have to be welcoming to men. Not just the cool kids who got to sit in the back of the schoolbus spending all their free time belittling the ones who are not as cool as them (this is where men in these groups really fail……..seen over and over and over men spend more time cutting down another man, all for the sake of impressing upon the others of how “awesome” they are)

  50. Scott says:

    It’s the “oh I didn’t think you were serious about that stuff” conversation.

  51. thedeti says:

    Scott:

    which goes to show that even conservative Christian women are thoroughly feminist in outlook, worldview, and the way they live their day to day lives. They don’t really believe Ephesians 5, especially that part about “wives, submit to your husbands”, and they have no intention of really living it. (They do really like that “Husbands love your wives even as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her”, though. Especially that “gave himself up for her” part.)

  52. The Question says:

    @ Boxer

    I have a feeling lot of manosphere truths will be repackaged and sold in a “sanitized” version in the years to come. Some pastor with the right stuff to pull it off will start parroting Dalrock’s stuff after reading through his blog, and everyone will think he’s an original thinker.

    On a separate note, I’ve been trying to get some sort of male pack of my own together in recent years, and a lot of the problems highlighted in the comments above applied. The men who are willing to break social taboos and defy convention are assertive and individualistic, which makes it hard to get them to agree on anything as to what they should do. Should they buy and fix up an old car? Start a gun club? Others have political intent with it, while others want it to keep focused inwardly.

    Also, everyone wants to be in charge. Everyone wants to be the leader. You can only have one captain on a ship. Nobody can agree on who is in charge and have no incentive to agree, because there’s no loss if they break off and plug back into the Matrix, so to speak.

    The other part was highlighted by Aaron Clarey in his podcast on this issue – many of these men are spread out across regions and aren’t located in the same community. It could be done, but it would take a lot of effort to bring them to one place; and then, you will never get them to agree on which place, because it would benefit some but not others. And married men with families can’t be expected to move for the sake of bachelors, but why would a bachelor give up his freedom and independence for a group that could at any point fall apart?

    I believe the only way male packs will form in any significant size is in a crisis, because in those circumstances like-minded men will naturally gravitate toward one another and a leader of the group will emerge similar to how the German barbarians selected their commanders.

  53. Anonymous Reader says:

    Sharkly
    I like this topic. As I am a man of action, I believe something needs to be done, and it is I who should be doing it!

    Great! What do you propose?
    One possible first step: don’t assue as Larry does that men are sheep. Look back over the last 30 to 40 years and see what actual responses by men looked like, and try to figure out why they failed.

  54. Pingback: Hollywood gives men role models for a wrecked America

  55. seventiesjason says:

    Booxer. I concur. I recall once at one meeting at IBM, it was “mandatory” that I go to in Austin, Texas. I calmly explained to my manager that it wasn’t required. I read the synopsis, and showed it to him. I calmly defended why it was not required. I talked about assets to the dept. Cost. Time that could be better spent with me HERE in San Jose actually working on my job as a writer.

    Well….I got the usual “you are not in charge here” and “who do you think you are” and “I’m the boss, when you’re running a department someday, you can run it as you see fit”

    I went to the meeting. Three days of me fighting to stay awake. One question came to me “Mr. Wyzockyski……are those documents in question important to information developement?”

    I replied “Yes, they are important.” Something that could have been settled with a phone call to San Jose.

    But you know……the “leaders” know everything. Your intent was not to upsur, or cause a fight. Don’t you dare question, or suggest or bring up a point. You don’t run things around here!

    So, I come back, and the manager asks me “Where are your white papers for this GA date?” I explained that “you sent me to Austin, Texas. I had to cancell my other work and obligations.”

    Of course, it was still my problem because I didn’t “make my case to him”. Leadership in title only, getting the bragging rights and zero action. Zero responisbility…..but aren’t I “cool / hip / and happening”

    All talk.

  56. Dalock, as usual, raised many interesting issues in his comments to my post. Today I wrote about one particular subject — giving his comments and my replies.

    It has everything. Christian conservatives’ advice! Hollywood comedy! John Wayne spanking hot young women! Boomer Dad’s sage advice to their kids and grandkids (which they rightly consider useless, even daft)!

    “Hollywood gives men role models for a wrecked America”
    https://fabiusmaximus.com/2018/04/13/role-models-in-film-for-men/

  57. BillyS says:

    GunnerQ,

    Note that in the first chapter of Romans it says that rejecting God as the Creator (i.e. particles to people evolution) causes God to give people over to the worst kind of activities. Those proceed from denying the Creator, not the other way around.

    Few Christians today really believe what is Written and instead substitute man’s ideas that end up being in constant flux. That is another reason churches are so ineffective today.

    RPL,

    I see no conflict between Christianity and evolution. Indeed, I think evolutionary theory reinforces Christianity, because the creation story in Genesis roughly parallels evolution. From the Big Bang, to the formation of the heavenly stars and the earth, to the oceans, the land, the plants, the animals, and finally man.

    Not in the slightest. Serious problems with the idea that particles evolved to people. Though many are hoodwinked today, including you it seems. Have you ever seen a computer assemble itself in a house with spare parts around, let alone ores? It doesn’t happen and won’t over millions of years, that this is the essence of what is required for particles to change into people.

    It also negates the idea that God made Adam and then Eve, imparting His Spirit into them. The two are not compatible in the slightest.

    Information theory also blows a hole in it, especially considering things like DNA. But people are stuck with it since they have to deny a Creator any way they can.

    Oscar,

    Note that they show a traditional family for the picture, not 2 women.

    Deti,

    which goes to show that even conservative Christian women are thoroughly feminist in outlook, worldview, and the way they live their day to day lives. They don’t really believe Ephesians 5, especially that part about “wives, submit to your husbands”, and they have no intention of really living it. (They do really like that “Husbands love your wives even as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her”, though. Especially that “gave himself up for her” part.)

    They also love 1 Pet 3:7 while ignoring 1 Pet 3:1-6.

    The Question,

    I would love to see preachers take the material Dalrock posts as their own. It would do wonders for churches, though I don’t see it happening. Most will continue bowing down to women instead, even in “male led” churches.

  58. Boxer,

    “My immediate thoughts also: Larry read “The Way of Men” {about “the new barbarians”} and is now graycycling some of its concepts.”

    (1) I didn’t read it. I have not heard of it.

    (2) As the examples in the post makes clear – and Dalrock explains in this post – the social mechanism I describe is wired into all men. It can be used by barbarians. it was used by the Founders to liberate America.

  59. thedeti says:

    What will beta men’s and married men’s response to packs be?

    Most men will do what they do now – stick with the “pack” that enforces and reinforces our current matriarchy. That’s the “pack” existing in the modern Churchian apparatus.

    Some married men will take the risk and join other forming packs. There are some examples in the manosphere now. Some of those men will blow up their marriages by doing so. And some of those men will get ground up in the divorce machine. Collateral damage in the “war”. Some of these men will have no choice but to sacrifice their marriages for a “pack”, because wifey will have none of this “how about we do what the Bible actually says, and I love you and you respect me, and you submit to me? You know, kind of like what the Book that forms the foundation of our faith actually says we should do?” Nope. None of that. And so for some of those men, if they’re serious, they’ll have to divorce their wives. Some wives, many even, will capitulate, because hubby is showing some spine.

    Most single men are not going to marry, so they have no incentive not to join a pack. And in fact they should. But Scott and his group are right on, I think, in being clear with these men about their oneitises. I would go a step further and tell most unmarried men now to forget the idea of ever marrying. Most of them aren’t going to be able to keep a woman with them for 30 or so years. Most women don’t have the strength of character it takes to stay with a man that long. Most men don’t have the attractiveness or spine it takes. Perhaps joining a pack will help them with that, but for most, it will not.

    As between men and women, the “war” will culminate in a fight to the death over who will be “in charge” and who will lead: Men or women. Men “leading” and being “in charge” requires a wholesale rollback of the gains feminism got for women; and women are not about to give that up. So there is going to be all out political war over that. And women will spare no one, and will pull out all the stops. Most men who post here will get doxxed and deprived of the ability to make a living. If you’re “red pill” and you publicly identify as such, or even if you say “Ephesians 5 and I Peter 3 should be followed to the letter”, you will be financially and professionally destroyed – by your own church fellows, and by your own pastors.

    Most men who join packs will be doing so alone. Some married men will be able to take their families. Most won’t. And most who join packs will not marry or lead families. In my opinion, this is where we’re headed. It is not going to be pretty.

  60. Damn Crackers says:

    I am a member of a men’s only German drinking club, Der Maennerchor. I find it gives me more spiritual fulfillment than my old Lutheran church, which is now decorated with crosses draped in rainbow colors to support Pride.

  61. Oscar says:

    OT: Women are getting designer nipples to look more like Kendall Jenner. “I think it would be really cool to just have protruding nipples all the time.”

    https://nypost.com/video/women-are-getting-designer-nipples-to-look-more-like-kendall-jenner/

    This world gets crazier every day.

  62. Scott says:

    Oscar, who are we to judge?

  63. seventiesjason says:

    My Grandfather who did some time in a Japanese POW camp in Indo-China after the surrender of Malay, and Singapore by The Crown stated:

    “Those of us who did live and survive that horror for the most part were the men who had the most to live for. It didn’t matter if they were a British subject, or ethnic Indian, or physically weak or strong. A deep conviction that somehow we would get through it. They Japanese could starve, shame, and heap contempt on us…….those who lived could not be broken in the end.”

    Hayden Jones. Corporal, British Army

    The extrodinary came out in men in that situation. It happened during during Mao’s ‘cultural revolution’ as well. In the Warsaw ghetto. In the death camps of eastern Europe. And more recently….that horrid seige of Sarejavo from 1992-1995. Men had to -were *forced* to- put aside any and all petty differences and make do, or die.

    It brought out exceptionalism. Countless untold stories of heroism, leadership and probably strength many thought they never had.

  64. feeriker says:

    <you will be financially and professionally destroyed – by your own church fellows, and by your own pastors.

    The churchian/pastor population of Hell is going to be immense.

  65. Anonymous Reader says:

    thedeti
    What will beta men’s and married men’s response to packs be?

    Easy to test: what is the reaction of the average Beta man to the manosphere?
    Like it or not, the androsphere / manosphere is where groups have already formed.

    So how does the Average Frustrated Chump beta married man react when he runs into the Red Pill world?

    Most men will do what they do now – stick with the “pack” that enforces and reinforces our current matriarchy. That’s the “pack” existing in the modern Churchian apparatus.

    Yup. How many churchgoing men who comment here can bring anything up in their church? Even something as basic as “women file 70% of divorce actions, wonder why that is?” probably can’t be discussed. Not with the average churchgoing man over 40, anyway.

    So with regard to gangs..er…packs: What’s the first rule of Fight Club?

  66. seventiesjason says:

    But everyone DID break the first rule of ‘fight club’ Anony Reader……..

  67. thedeti says:

    Anon Reader:

    So how does the Average Frustrated Chump beta married man react when he runs into the Red Pill world?

    Right. He runs back to the safety of the churchian “pack”, and to Mommy (er,…) wife. This is what Dalrock has touched on many a time here. Most Christian men are deathly afraid of calling out women, and are even more afraid of confronting their wives over their faithlessness, their abuses, their inability or unwillingness to follow the Word, etc. And most of them will not do it, because

    “you’re gonna do what I say, or I am leaving and taking the kids or I’m kicking you out. You’ll never see the kids again and you’ll never get sex again. And you’ll be paying through the nose to me for the rest of your life. Don’t believe me? Go hire a lawyer for yourself and ask him. He’ll tell you the same thing. So, yeah. Go ahead, sweetie. You go join your “pack”. And when you get back the locks will be changed and your stuff will be on the curb.”

    One would hope the response will be

    “I’m going to join the pack, and you’re coming with me, and so are the kids, and if you’re not, then YOU can leave, and we’ll fight over who gets the kids. You say you believe? Go read Ephesians 5 and I Peter 3, and do what it says. If you won’t, then you’re not my wife, and you’ve already left me. So I’m gonna do what I gotta do, and I guess you will too.”

    It’s going to come to that, for a lot of marriages. Mark my words. Except most women will say that paragraph up there; and most men WILL NOT say that other paragraph up there.

    Yup. How many churchgoing men who comment here can bring anything up in their church? Even something as basic as “women file 70% of divorce actions, wonder why that is?” probably can’t be discussed. Not with the average churchgoing man over 40, anyway.

    In the more conservative churches, you can say “wives, submit to respect your husbands”, but there are all sorts of definitions and conditions on it. You can talk about divorce and the problems in marriage. But most of the time, it’s all because “men are not stepping up and manning up” and “men are not doing this or that or the other thing” and “you gotta do it for the children” and “if you disagree then you hate women and you hate children”.

  68. SCC says:

    Forty responses so far and not one mention of Robin Hood.

    True, but no one even touched my point about David, his brothers and loyal friends.

    Not the stories of legends, these are actual historical figures, outlaws (no exaggeration) who banded together to maintain what was right. David even referred to as a “man after God’s own heart.”

    Not a bad role model.

  69. thedeti says:

    It’s going to have to get very, very bad for men to join packs and sacrifice their marriages, and take the big chance on pissing off Mommy (er) wife. It’s going to have to get damn near unbearable, to the breaking point, for a lot of men. It’s going to have to get Network Howard Beale “I’m as mad as hell and I’m not going to take this anymore” for most men to take action.

    It’s going to have to take American Colonies circa 1774 bad. King George III throwing you in jail without a trial bad; quartering soldiers in your house, taking away your guns bad. Taxing the hell out of you bad. Can’t earn a living bad. Can’t talk to a woman without having the cops called on you bad. Can’t look at a woman at work or church or in public without getting accused of sexual harassment bad.

    And we’re nowhere near that point yet. We’re moving in that direction, but we’re not anywhere close to that point yet.

  70. thedeti says:

    Cue it out to 1:07 for Howard Beale’s finest hour.

  71. thedeti says:

    And if men choose packs now, a good bit of their marriages will end up like Howard Beale.

  72. seventiesjason says:

    the deti:

    Or it will take an economic collapse on a scale when even the “state” will not be able cope because they will be broke as well, and powerless to alliviate the situation……and of course it will not be a cakewalk for the folks on the front lines at “welfare office”

  73. thedeti says:

    Jason:

    Yeah. It will have to get that bad, such that the safest place for a woman is with some man with a gun.

    When 50% of the country is starving because the EBT cards no longer work and gangs of poor starving people are marauding in the streets, we’ll find out just how attractive the average man with a job and who knows his way around a gun is. We’ll find out just how good women married to average men have it. We’ll see just how good the average guy is looking when the alternative is being robbed and raped because of total economic and civic/government collapse.

  74. Mega says:

    Deti’s on a roll so I hate to de-rail … but a lot of this has been talked about before. For a long, long time. I think the link below came out about 2010 … was one of my biggest influences in taking the Red Pill. And dang that was a tough pill to swallow. Its sidebar reading on TRP on Reddit … every manosphere member should read this … IMHO anyway. Though its kinda dated … I see no reason to doubt it. Didn’t then. Don’t now. Basically says what Deti has been talking about … just in a little different way. Things will change when enough men refuse to participate and government can’t prop things up anymore. If you haven’t ever read this … you should. Its long and rambling and somewhat disorganized … but worth the time.

    http://puerarchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/TheFuturist_TheMisandryBubble.pdf

  75. seventiesjason says:

    deti

    Here’s the thing…….a lot of men like myself…….IF it came to that, and I am NOT wishing for that. There will be unpunished murder in the streets, a lot of human misery. There will be neighborhoods in cities where it will look like nothing is happening……….

    I am not one of those prepper types of men who “just can’t wait for this to happen so I will finally be getting female attention”

    It couyld be a very dangerous situation. As for me letting a woman into my situation IF that would happen? No *freaking* way. No way. ONLY if she is married n mine BEFOREHAND.

  76. feeriker says:

    We’ll see just how good the average guy is looking when the alternative is being robbed and raped because of total economic and civic/government collapse.

    Given how hopelessly dense women are when it comes to understanding cause and effect or seeing the “big picture,” I doubt that tbeir behavior or attitudes will change to any significant degree, no matter how bad conditions get. Even if if they did, however, most men will have by that point become so disgusted with women, will have suffered so much long-term abuse from them, and will feel such a visceral loathing for them that they’ll probably pump full of bullets any woman who even dares to cross shadows with them.

  77. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    SeventiesJason :we HAD these orgainizations. The Boy Scouts (even the men, Scoutmasters and leaders had fellowship). We had supper clubs (one of the last ones left in California is here in Fresno,

    Speaking of supper clubs, some are de facto all male, even if not de jure. I’ve attended many libertarian supper clubs in years past. Women are rare. Sometimes there are no women.

    There are many groups that are de facto all males, simply because few women want to attend. Libertarian clubs. Computer clubs. Horror/sci-fi clubs and conventions used to attract few females, but that’s no longer true.

    One female might change the dynamic if she’s single and attractive. But even so, many groups attract few to no females, because women have different interests.

    Women are only interested in men’s clubs if they perceive some advantage to joining, such as attention from sexually desirable men. If the club is perceived as a bunch of old, creepy losers, women will avoid.

  78. Paul says:

    Where are male packs outlawed?

  79. Swanny River says:

    Feeriker,
    I agree that they won’t get the cause and effect right, from which I conclude it is much wiser to make a stand now, starting in the churches and in our homes because whatever mess happens in 2018 will be far better for everyone compared with the situation you describe. In other words, we don’t need to wait for Venezuela to happen here for women to come around because they won’t. I’d like to see what happens with something less apocalyptic, such as an awakening and revival of pastors.

  80. feeriker says:

    As for me letting a woman into my situation IF that would happen? No *freaking* way. No way. ONLY if she is married n mine BEFOREHAND.

    I’m rapidly concluding that being single and absolutely unattached is the ideal situation for any man to be in when in a SHTF scenario. Even with my own wife’s background, having lived most of her life under adverse conditions in another country, which makes her stronger than most AWs, I sometimes wonder how strong and loyal she would remain in an End Times scenario. No man really has any way of knowing for sure.

  81. seventiesjason says:

    I belong to a modern architecture club here in Fresno. No women. Then again, all guys mostly above forty who don’t have the *hot* factor going for any of them.

    I belong to supper club here in Fresno. They meet once a month. Few women, older (parents generation). Though we had “Tony Orlando” provide a show a few months back. Was actually good.

  82. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    SeventiesJason: A real leader doesn’t have to claim he is an alpha. He just IS.

    From Game of Thrones:

  83. Mega says:

    I did verify that the MisandryBubble was written Jan 1st, 2010. It was updated in 2012 and finally archived in 2014. Someone earlier mentioned the site “No Ma’m” and think that and Bone Breaker were around discussing such things even earlier than that; like around 2007 or maybe before that. Maybe someone else knows the history better than I … but this stuff has been around for a long time and discussed at lots of sites over the years. Still no solution though ..

    As far as the MisandryBubble one of the big things is the economics and particular the hollowing out of jobs … especially predominately male jobs. I think the situation is actually far worse than let on by the Gov because they lie and manipulate the facts and then get the Media to lie about it. Just like everything else. Anyway … as men continue to get discriminated against in education and in employment and robots and automation and ai … gets a bigger and bigger foothold. The middle class will pretty much cease to exist; especially for men. I actually think this is a major reason Trump won … the middle class didn’t believe the lies in the media … didn’t believe Hillary was really ahead … the Media lies about everything else … probably lying about that too. They voted for Trump cause they know how bad things were … and Hillary would only make things worse.

    And of course … this economic situation just makes all the problems worse … like how Dal talks about the marriage problem … what woman is going to want to marry a man who is unemployed and will NEVER HAVE A JOB ? The Bernie socialism stuff is creepy as hell … as well as the talk of the Universal Basic Income … but when 50% of men are unemployable for life … what to do ?

    Yeah, some crazy stuff to think about.

  84. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Opus: Forty responses so far and not one mention of Robin Hood. Men will bind together when they are outlawed.

    Robin Hood had it easier. He was fighting a man. King John. A single target.

    We are fighting a culture. False ideas. Corrupt ambitions. Self-delusions. Not a single target, but an amorphous enemy that, like smoke, is everywhere and stains everything, yet is hard to grasp.

  85. feeriker says:

    I’ve attended many libertarian supper clubs in years past. Women are rare. Sometimes there are no women.

    Women find libertarianism and libertarian organizations repellent. The libertarian philosophy holds that each person is responsible for their own life and the consequences of their own actions. By extension, that also means that any form of forced, unearned wealth transfer from one person to another is immoral. Small wonder then that women want nothing whatsoever to do with it.

  86. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    thedeti: We’ll see just how good the average guy is looking when the alternative is being robbed and raped because of total economic and civic/government collapse.

    I would have thought so. But now I see European women carrying signs that say: I Prefer a Rapist to a Racist.

  87. Gunner Q says:

    Red Pill Latecomer @ 8:11 pm:
    “I see no conflict between Christianity and evolution.”

    Evolution teaches that we have no soul; that mortal death is the end. That morality is, at best, a social construct created and enforced by the winners of society. That your greatest possible accomplishments are impregnating females and killing competing males. Every selfish bureaucrat who betrays his promises to the little people the instant he becomes a ‘made man’, he’s an exemplar of proper evolutionary behavior. He dies fat and happy while we Christians die frustrated and poor, having voluntarily suffered for some weird nonreproductive concept called “truth”.

    Christianity teaches that humans are a hybrid of the mortal and spiritual realms; that we have a soul and mortal death is not the end of life. That morality is defined by our Creator and not subject to alteration by humans. That your greatest possible accomplishment is learning to respect and obey God even in hard times. The bureaucrat who dies fat and happy will meet a terrible fate because he “won” by willfully defying his Creator.

    There is no common ground between these two religions.The way you should live in order to become an immortal demigod is not the way you should live in order to exploit a brief window of lawless opportunity. Why should you sacrificially keep a promise? Why should you choose to suffer on God’s behalf? Evolution says you shouldn’t. Christianity says your Creator insists.

    So long as men believe in Evolution, the only motivation we have for cooperation is to prey upon those around us more effectively. You see this in celebrity politicians, in modern clergy, in bankster CEOs, in ethnic conflicts, in the welfare state. I don’t care if you try African tribalism or dictatorship or a church men’s group. It’s all about becoming strong in order to prey upon the weak.

    Don’t delude yourself that atheist humans can cooperate for mutual benefit. Only first-generation atheists think so because of habit and devout parents. Every single Communist experiment began with “we can be moral without God”. Every experiment failed.

    Humans NEED God. We need our Father in Heaven just as children need their fathers on Earth. But Evolution says we have no Father.

  88. Anon says:

    I’ve attended many libertarian supper clubs in years past. Women are rare. Sometimes there are no women.

    Why is this a surprise? How many vegans work in butcher shops?

  89. Anon says:

    feeriker,

    Women find libertarianism and libertarian organizations repellent. The libertarian philosophy holds that each person is responsible for their own life and the consequences of their own actions. By extension, that also means that any form of forced, unearned wealth transfer from one person to another is immoral. Small wonder then that women want nothing whatsoever to do with it.

    Expecting women to support small government is tantamount to expecting government employees to support small government. Most govt. employees are women, btw, particularly in job functions that did not even exist 50 years ago.

    This, among other reasons, is why AI will be a disaster for women.

  90. Anon says:

    Mega,

    I did verify that the MisandryBubble was written Jan 1st, 2010.

    Yes, it was published on that date. Don’t ask me how I know.

    It seems that a lot of predictions are on track (particularly the one about VR Sex).

  91. Pariah says:

    Gunner Q,
    “Evolution teaches that we have no soul; that mortal death is the end. That morality is, at best, a social construct created and enforced by the winners of society.”

    I think your assessment is only partialy true. But you are conflating evolution with atheism – they are not the same. There are Christians who hold to theistic evolution. Morality is only a social construct if one where to deny the dichotomy between God and creation. Morality is subjective if you either a) hold to a pantheistic worldview, or b) hold to atheism.

    “Christianity teaches that humans are a hybrid of the mortal and spiritual realms; that we have a soul and mortal death is not the end of life.”

    Yes, most Christians believe that we have a “soul,” but that belief came from a syncretism between Christianity and Greek philosophy, and is incorrect. The early church taught that we will be resurrected. Eternal life is a gift from God, not something inherent within a person. The resurrection is not the same teaching as the belief that we have an “immortal soul” within us.

  92. American says:

    Count me in. I’m with all fundamentalist Christian nationalist ALPHA MALE packs. No compromise with leftards in any alt-left form. Tear down the entire alt-left structure. Tear down the institutions these fallacious revisionist/pluralistic, postmodern, hypocritical regressives corrupted which cannot be reformed. Bark at the moon my friends, bark at the moon.

  93. seventiesjason says:

    But don’t we have this already with MGTOW, MRA, the man-o-sphere, redditt???? Places like this?

    These “packs” so to speak?

    So when does a pack like this meet? Who’s the “alpha” and who deems him “as such” and if people do show up to certain gatherings / meetings…are they “kicked” out? What metrics or standards will apply for membership, and what of monies? Who will handle codes of conduct? How will it be enforced? Single v married………….”oh, in order to come to this meetup once a year, I have to bring my wife….but she’s on board 100% but we’re a team…you get me, you get her”

    A myraid of situational happenings, who will say yes or no?

    We have enough agreeing here on Catholic v Protestant practice at times. Okay, so many of you may say “it’s not gonna be about that”

    well, if it is just going to be a space like this forum for example…….we already have that and we don’t need a “pack” and what will it be about exactly? Doctrine? Prepping? Fitness. Game?

    Who will have to travel and who will only have to drive ten minutes for a annual, quarterly, bi-yearly meeting? I’m not knocking the idea….but how is it going to be structured and run?

  94. Scott says:

    Gunner, Pariah-

    This is NOT my field of expertise. I know what I think happened and my church actually teaches something different.

    But the thing that trips me up on the evolution vs Christianity thing is not so much the false dichotomy issue per se but what I think can be reasonably inferred from the former.

    I mean, I think I have a pretty good handle on what theistic evolution teaches, which is basically that it doesn’t matter HOW God created man (the mechanics of it). It is no less amazing if he took billions of years or six days. And, in theory, even if it only took six days, evolution (the process of mutation/selection/etc) is not excluded. Man could have been created in a flash and then began evolving.

    However, lets be honest. that’s not what most evolutionists believe. In order for man to be man, he had to have started as something less than man. In other words, evolution necessarily implies a very old earth/universe.

    Then it follows–regardless of whether we are talking about a “soul” or a resurrected body, it is ONLY man (and not some previous version of him) that has eternal life. So, at what point along the evolutionary timeline to he become significantly “man” enough to have it bestowed on him.

  95. Devon35 says:

    Challenges to the feminists won’t come from married men because they have too much to lose. Challenges will come from the increasing number of unmarried men that don’t have good romantic and economic prospects. Online dating is how people meet today and even the dullest men after a while can see a relatively small number of men get dates and they’re wasting their time. These men can challenge feminists because they don’t have anything to lose and no reason to obey women that won’t date them anyway.

    The last presidential election was the first shot across the bow to the feminists and it’s just starting. Men put up with a lot of nonsense for a family but when there isn’t a family there’s no incentive to passively accept the increasingly insane demands of feminists.

  96. Swanny River says:

    By the way, I have secretly hoped for packs to form from this website. I envision guys using vacations, not for worldly pleasure, but a shock and awe campaign to help brothers with dating, selecting, rebuking, training the women, wives and pastor’s in their life. A”have-rebelliousness, will-travel” pack.
    For example, Sharkly was mentioning troubles, lets meet at his church and swarm the pastor for one week/two-weekends in a row nd elders and have he and his wife to dinners to see how a good wife acts.
    I was joking about hiring a plane to embarass pastors but a pack could do that easier than a guy in a particular church.

  97. mgtowhorseman says:

    Seventiesjason

    I served in Sarejvo in ’93 94. I still have nightmares what people will do to each other.
    I hope it doesn’t fall that far.

    I think the packs will not be official groups, churches, etc. The trust in those is long gone.

    It will be groups of men friends. Bonded by friendship, combat or other shared tests.
    Once it grows too big and you get non believers as in Scott’s oneitis friends, the pack will stop growing. A group of redpill men will accept a long term buddy with oneitis in hopes of saving a fellow brother. But a newbie comes in refusing to change? Get lost.

  98. PokeSalad says:

    Forty responses so far and not one mention of Robin Hood.

    Errol Flynn or Kevin Costner version?

  99. Oscar says:

    @ Anonymous Reader

    “How many churchgoing men who comment here can bring anything up in their church? Even something as basic as ‘women file 70% of divorce actions, wonder why that is?’ probably can’t be discussed. Not with the average churchgoing man over 40, anyway.”

    I’ve done exactly that, and in a Sunday school class.

  100. james says:

    It will get a lot worse.

  101. Sharkly says:

    Red Pill Latecomer: We are fighting a culture. False ideas. Corrupt ambitions. Self-delusions. Not a single target, but an amorphous enemy that, like smoke, is everywhere and stains everything, yet is hard to grasp.
    That is just what I think too.
    Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    Swanny River: For example, Sharkly was mentioning troubles, lets meet at his church and swarm the pastor … and have he and his wife to dinners to see how a good wife acts.
    I Think my wife needs an intervention of some people with some sense. I just don’t know if it would be effective in fixing her psychological issues, and I suspect she’d refuse to cooperate once she realized you wouldn’t be swayed into White Knighting for her. Poor victim, she has been emotionally abused don’t cha know. I actually have some good and decent folks right here I could call on and twist arms to get help from, if I could figure out how to best use them in a way to cause lasting change in my wife. But for right now please pray for us. Things are kind of coming to a head. Please pray that she will submit and go to counseling and treatment together with me, and call off the divorce.

    The churches are another issue. I quit the one my wife still goes to, and wrote them a departure email telling them about their failing to preach the whole truth of God’s word and preaching marriage destroying Feminism instead. I think I also linked them to a Dalrock post about cutting men off at the knees also. I told them to preach 1 Corinthians 7:2-5 if they ever grew the balls to. They did not respond. I dropped back in for Easter, and the message was man-bashing Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea, while praising the women. I’ve been to many bad “churches” around here. I only found one with fairly accurate preaching, but it is sleep inducing, and entirely peopled with senior citizens.

    Anonymous Reader: Great! What do you propose?
    Mostly what was in the rest of that post. Publishing the truth, preaching the truth, proclaiming the truth, and modeling the truth, including by showing other men much greater respect than society currently shows men. Forming different types of groups for different purposes and different clientele. Fomenting a Pro-Patriarchal cultural revolution that appeals to young people. Skewering Feminism. Forming a Patriarchially God following Church, and praying for God’s help.

  102. DrTorch says:

    By the way, I have secretly hoped for packs to form from this website.

    Me too.

    Fairfax County, BTW.

  103. JDG says:

    How many churchgoing men who comment here can bring anything up in their church?

    I’ve done so many times, and not just at my church. Ive shared and debated with pastors, elders, ministry lay people, and whole groups of people. I’ve been excluded from groups and events and still get looks from folks who were present in those conversations/debates.

    Was there a price? Yes. Was it worth it? Yes. Standing for the truth always is.

  104. Scott says:

    How many churchgoing men who comment here can bring anything up in their church?

    I’ve written about my experience with this, only a couple of time. The most memorable of which was during a RC marriage enrichment class.

    I found that there are a couple of components that must be present in order for it to work.

    First, you don’t have to jackass confrontation dude. Mostly because people on the whole are not going to fight back anyway. The lore is that as soon as you say something about submission/headship/etc is that the room will erupt into a chair flying and torches burning as they chase you back to your car. And this is not what happens. It more subtle. The glaring, and the wives looking at their husbands waiting for them to set you straight? Yes.

    So second, you cannot let that sort of just-under-the-surface seething and daggers get under your skin and get rattled. Present your understanding of the text(s) on this manner rationally and with sincerity. You are not going to convince everyone. You might convince no one. Most likely, one or two men will confide in you later that they are in agreement with you but are helpless to bring this up with their wives for fear that life will become hell in their homes. That”s what happens to me.

    In my case, it helps to be married to a woman who agrees with me and will sit right next to me while I calmly and rationally lay these arguments out. She sits and looks up at me, smiling and supportive like.

    I think what also probably happens is they all go home and the wives confront their husbands, asking “why didn’t you speak up? You don’t agree with him, do you? That poor Mychael is trapped and controlled by that monster.”

    That sucks, I am sure.

    I would think single guys, with no real fear of the terror that awaits them at home might be able to be effective as well.

  105. Scott says:

    In other words, all you are doing is planting a seed. The evidence is all around us that the egalitarian/Christo-feminism is a failed model.

    The biblical approach sells itself. What do you care how they respond?

  106. seventiesjason says:

    Single men are not listened to. We’re not married. We have “no idea” and cannot speak on these matters………………I have even used the defense “Well. neither is a Catholic priest, but he seems to be able to offer insight.”

    Believe me I have tried. In Sunday school. In my churches own “men’s fellowship” at national conferences. If I was good looking, in-demand dating wise or *hot* I am sure I would have a bit more traction, or may at least be listened to.

  107. JDG says:

    Scott is correct. Each time one of us speaks out, a seed is planted (and sometimes watered).

  108. Devon35 says:

    Single unmarried men aren’t listened to now because the numbers are relatively small but that is changing. Pew predicts the unmarried rate for young people now will hit 25%. One guy at a church won’t make a difference but what happens when there’s 10 single guys or 15 or 20 that object? The monkey wrench in feminist plans is large numbers of guys with little to lose that will push back.

  109. Boxer says:

    Single men are not listened to. We’re not married. We have “no idea” and cannot speak on these matters………………I have even used the defense “Well. neither is a Catholic priest, but he seems to be able to offer insight.”

    Believe me I have tried. In Sunday school. In my churches own “men’s fellowship” at national conferences. If I was good looking, in-demand dating wise or *hot* I am sure I would have a bit more traction, or may at least be listened to.

    Slavery is the natural condition of man, and the enslaved will always look upon the free man as a traitor or a scoundrel.

    There are people who listen to you. You do good work, giving hope to those who need it most. Don’t worry about the stiff-necked. They are of no significance.

    Boxer

  110. seventiesjason says:

    Appreciate the encouragement. Came to the conclusion. After my UK trip in 2019. Getting out, leaving this job and The Salvation Army. While in the UK, gonna look for work………I speak Welsh fluently, and there are potentials for work there. The Welsh chest-thump about their “heritage” yet most of them don’t even speak Welsh.

    I will find another church I am sure……….still a long way off but in reality……not that far off

    There really isn’t much else I can do at my local Corps concerning this issue.

  111. Lost Patrol says:

    First, you don’t have to jackass confrontation dude. Mostly because people on the whole are not going to fight back anyway.

    Most likely, one or two men will confide in you later that they are in agreement with you but are helpless to bring this up with their wives for fear that life will become hell in their homes.

    This is the general formula I’ve encountered as well. I’ve never tried to convey these ideas (the ones Dalrock presents and we comment on) in mixed company though. I pass them along only to individual men or small groups of men. I will say that even in those circumstances a formidable white knight or two has challenged me directly in the moment, so that is not unknown in my experience; but mostly there is no verbal response at all. There has never been open agreement with me, even on a one-to-one conversation.

    These concepts strike deep. They practically invoke some psychological version of fight or flight. I have to remind myself what it was like for me when I was still those men.

  112. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Jason, the UK sounds increasingly totalitarian to me. People are jailed for expressing political opinions, or for tweeting truthful news stories, or for using a gun to defend yourself from home invaders.

    The U.S., for all its faults, still has the First and Second Amendments.

  113. Gunner Q says:

    Pariah @ April 13, 2018 at 6:20 pm:
    Gunner Q,
    “Evolution teaches that we have no soul; that mortal death is the end. That morality is, at best, a social construct created and enforced by the winners of society.”

    “I think your assessment is only partialy true. But you are conflating evolution with atheism – they are not the same. There are Christians who hold to theistic evolution.”

    Theistic evolution is as insidious, poisonous and momentarily successful an ideology as Churchianity. The purpose of evolution is to explain reality in such a way that faith in God is unnecessary. That is why the atheist loves it; it reassures them that the incredible and unlikely complexity of life does not imply the existence of a supernatural Creator. A Christian who modifies the phrase “God created life” into “God discovered life and guided its development like a man breeds dogs” is sacrificing his faith in God to make peace with God’s enemies, like the Churchians do.

    If all God did was guide the process of evolution then God is clearly not omnipotent. He’s a space alien that came along and “culturally appropriated” preexisting life on Earth. Therefore, all we humans need do to break His control of us is to become as strong as God, which is possible because God cannot create. He can only modify what already exists. Like us. And like Satan.

    Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Evolution doesn’t know. Christians know the chicken came first because God made chickens. God did NOT find trilobites, say “I want to make a chicken” and then slowly mutate the trilobites over eons of trial and error into chickens–as if God was incapable of simply building a chicken. Nothing in Scripture suggests God works by trial and error.

    Furthermore, the Genesis account of the creation of humans is straight-up impossible by evolution. The breath of God is a part of us–Adam did not become a living being without it–and whatever else that poetry means, it means humans are not exclusively material creatures. We are spiritual creatures, too, but the central belief of evolution is, as Carl Sagan put it, “the cosmos is all that is, or was, or ever will be”.

    There are many counterexamples and disproofs of evolution as a scientific theory. The most relevant one to Dalrock’s blog is how the only metric for evolutionary success is reproductive success, yet women–who are the most evolved females on the planet–must be taught to not pimp their babies for drug money & thug tingles, or simply abort their babies for personal convenience. That’s one heck of a counterexample.

    But evolutionists ignore the disproofs because they’re irrelevant. Theirs is a religion not a science. They believe in Evo because the alternative is God.

    Don’t try to meet them halfway.

  114. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    If all God did was guide the process of evolution then God is clearly not omnipotent.

    Not at all. God created space and time, via the Big Bang. God created the laws of physics. God knows and guides every atom and subatomic particle according to His laws. At times even suspending his laws of physics via a miracle.

    The Big Bang, evolution, DNA, are all God’s handiwork.

  115. Trautman says:

    Go to a church group and have the backbone to bring up something like, “70% of divorces are initiated by women. Why is that?” The response of blaming men for not being adequate enough would be so knee-jerk and instantaneous that the utter immediacy would be rapid enough to disrupt the space-time continuum.

  116. bdash 77 says:

    @RedPill Latecomer

    Tywin Lannister was such and incredible character.
    Took no shit from his retarded daughter.

    Just because he was a strong, capable intelligent leader most readers call him evil…

  117. Gary Eden says:

    Single men avoiding marriage will not tear down feminism nor build the new reality. Never have in the past and never will; because they do not produce the next generation. The most they can do is help change the tone of culture and put pressure on women via dropping out of the marriage market.

    Ultimately it will be ALPHA fathers who keep their woman well in hand and raise patriarchal sons to rule and dutiful daughters who’ll make good wives; who will go on to create the next generation of patriarchal families, and big ones too, while the feminists and MGTOWs wither away like the Shakers.

    Demographics is destiny.

    No lasting movement can be built on avoidance of reproduction.

    The reason the pack idea is so powerful is because humans are social, tribal creatures; we need that. Culture must be created and lived in real life, man to man. It is part of who we are. Feminism has done its best to destroy it but forming tribes is in our DNA.

  118. seventiesjason says:

    Gary….good luck with that. Most “alphas” are more concerned of getting laid than being a patriarchal father. There are very, very few Christian marriages that I have witnessed that would even want to emulate. Emasculated husband, bossy wife are pretty common today.

    The men who are what you describe are just going to be outnumbered on all levels. That is why men like me are going to be needed. The single, never married Christian man. We will be a significant number to help push back on this……..the married “alpha” Christian men will in some ways have to get over themselves and stop viewing us as genetic losers or somehow not as “holy” as they are.

    Overall, I really don’t see the married men with traditional, good, solid marriages really wanting us around. I know many good Christian couples but it stops at polite talk before we all break into “groups” during Sunday school (which is wrong….we all should be together, that includes children)

    I agree with your assessment of packs. In this ager and time, they just won’t work. It would have to take a massive collapse……economic, large…full-scale war…..cosmic threat (asteroid gonna hit the earth, or those supposed aliens finally do arrive and they aint too friendly) in order to bring this really into fruition. Feudal in a sense forming more out of necessity for protection.

    Feminism like all it does is “rebrand” I remember being required in college to read that “women who run with the wolves” book in 1992? 1993? Purporting that women actually form packs (a lie made into truth)

    We have our challenges ahead of us…….but many stories and situations of single people in His word that did the exceptional. Let’s also remember that David wasn’t the best father, and Jesus was single.

  119. Novaseeker says:

    The point, thoughj, is this: how many are willing to take up arms, and I mean quite bloody arms, against this?

    Because that is what it will take. It will take a bloody cultural change like China’s cultural revolution to achieve these aims, complete with people being paraded around with signs around their necks, many of them women. Who has the stomach for this? Anyone? Bueller?

    If you guys really think a revolution will happen through what you are doing individually in your own families, frankly you’re on drugs. That’s not how massive social changes happen, and it’s a mistake our side has been making for decades because we lack the stomach for real social change (and I don’t see that changing), while our enemy does not.

  120. JDG says:

    If you guys really think a revolution will happen through what you are doing individually in your own families, frankly you’re on drugs.

    We should correct, rebuke, plant, and water because that is what we Christians are instructed to do*. I have no belief that we will bring any societal level change**, but I have seen with my own eyes the changes God has made in families and churches when even a small few do His will.

    For example, many years ago the church I attend was on the brink of becoming egalitarian, the efforts of a few staying true to the Word of God, by the grace of God, turned that around. I have also seen many changes for the better in families as wives were rebuked for their rebellious behavior (having been influenced by this increasingly degenerate culture we are immersed in) and encouraged to behave as laid out in the Bible.

    * 2 Timothy 2:24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, 25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
    * 2 Timothy 3:16-17
    All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
    * 2 Timothy 4:2
    Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.
    * James 5:19-20
    My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

    ** I’m fairly certain the U.S., Canada, and Western Europe are done as free nations. I suspect they will turn into complete totalitarian regimes or will be conquered from without after significant civil strife. My moneys on totalitarian regimes.

  121. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Gary Eden: Ultimately it will be ALPHA fathers who keep their woman well in hand and raise patriarchal sons to rule and dutiful daughters who’ll make good wives;

    ALPHA simply means “able to attract female lovers.” Beyond that, it says nothing about a man’s intelligence, productivity, fidelity, or Christian faith.

    Unfortunately, many Alphas currently flooding into the West are not good Christian men. They are hot Muslim rapists. They will add to the ranks of the ALPHA thugs already in the West, siring broods of bastards.

    Alpha thugs are good at creating baby momas. They’re less interested in raising patriarchal sons and dutiful daughters.

  122. seventiesjason says:

    Funny Nova…I saw a journalist years ago conducting an interview with a “muslim militant” from Jordon………it was on PBS Newshour I believe…

    The journalist posed the final question of “What makes you think your ways and ideas will win? You will have victory over us?”

    All he did was look at his son next to him, a young strapping teenager……..and he said “My son will die for these ideas, the cause, and he himself may not see the victory……” he pused just enough, and sais to the interviewer “and your son won’t.”

  123. Gary Eden says:

    Jason,

    For packs to work they don’t have to directly overthrow the ruling order; its unlikely anyone can do that. But thats not what I laid out. All they need to do is provide support and training to men to get them through the tough times that bring opportunity to change things. And to create the future by inculcating a new culture in our families.

    This is why packs of Christian families is so critical. Like it or not, demographics is destiny.

    Single men can help contribute to this. They, not having the time and financial burden of children, can be a huge help to other families. But too many of them seem content to bitch and moan and fiddle while it all burns down. They have to choose to serve others.

    But no, they won’t be welcome if they’re wrapped up in bitterness and anger towards others; that is completely toxic to both you and others.

    I don’t expect you to know many patriarchal Christian families; you’re part of a feminist church. Such Godly families for the most part have little to do with American Christianity because it is poison to marriage. But they are out there and they need to help mentor other Christian men to fix their marriages.

    Feminism has wrecked havoc on us all.

  124. seventiesjason says:

    @Gary

    No, too many singles are not welcomed in the “family” or “company” of marrieds….unless extended family by blood.

    As for a feminist church……..that’s all churches in the USA, I don’t know of one American who commutes every Sunday to Ghana, India, or “eastern Europe” to attend mass or a holiness meeting. Most married men really won’t help anyone. They are too busy following “Corinthians 7” and thus throw it all back on the single men….and when the single men act….they of course “did it wrong”

    As for too many men that are “content” to “bitch”? Agreed. That goes for the marrieds as well.

    Furthermore that goes for just about all of you on this page who know it all. I’ve experienced more of a holier than thou attitude from married Christians than married seculars.

    Wrapped in bitterness? That’s cute or do you mean being a doormat to these “alpoha Christian men” and listening to them because they did a biological act and fathered children?????

    I’ll follow a man not because I agree with him. I’ll follow when I see leadership and attitude of humility, a decorum of deeds, and not just words and genuine interest that he could use my help, and the skills or potentials I may have, and ones I may not know about.

  125. American says:

    @seventiesjason

    “All he did was look at his son next to him, a young strapping teenager……..and he said ‘My son will die for these ideas, the cause, and he himself may not see the victory……; he paused just enough, and said to the interviewer “and your son won’t.”

    ^ One of the many things I learned in boot camp, and this was verbally explained to our class by an instructor who taught the same thing to each class in order, was that the objective was NOT to die but rather to kill the enemy until victory was achieved via their surrender or annihilation.

    Like Rumsfeld said on national television at the start of the First Gulf War, “they want to enter paradise to collect their virgins and we shall accommodate them.”

    We do not allow our enemies to dictate the narrative.

  126. seventiesjason says:

    Well…as noble as that is…and thank you for your service…………..when it comes to this war. This one, against Jihadists militants…through terror cells…..through pockets…..through loosely connected alliances that they have..across borders of friend and foe…..they are winning. They view every attack as a battle on the march to victory. We view it as connected-disconnected events that may or may not be related.

    As a civilian who never served his country……..and perhaps my view is wrong…………or misguided. Every Vet on here I am sure will justly correct me……….

    When you join the armed forces. There is indeed that chance you are going to die in the service for your country. Precautions and technology help. Being trained properly is a key….but even in the best circumstances, it happens. Lately in this terror war throughout the world, civilians like myself seem to be in more danger now……

    It may be a wrong take, or like I said “misguided”and let me add I mean no offense.

    Out of being respectful, I will keep any criticisms of our armed forces quiet, and to myself.

    Take yesterday…the strikes in Syria. Everyone is virtue signaling to “protect our brave troops” not that they should not be…..but we’re in the wrong here…..and I made a mistake in 2003 supporting the invasion of Iraq…………the situation has been made worse in that region of the world. Not at the direct fault of the soldier on the ground, the sailor on the ship, or USAF squad member……

  127. American says:

    “He’s not really my type. We had sex the first time we met,” she said.
    ^ A gold digging cheater –> ‘Woman Wants Money, Cheats On Boyfriend – And Plays Victim!’

  128. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Gary Eden: Single men can help contribute to this. … They have to choose to serve others.

    I contribute to various Catholic charities, missions, and religious orders.

  129. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    The real battle between the West and Muslims (and others) is demographic. It doesn’t matter if we out kill them two to one, if they out breed us three to one.

    White South Africa had nukes. The ANC only had AK-47s. Yet the ANC won.

  130. Gary Eden says:

    Good Latecomer, thank you for your service.

    And you are exactly right. The real battle is demographics. This is why the left is lost in this country unless they can flood us with foreigners. Our blacks won’t out breed us but the foreigners are.

    This is why big patriarchal homeschooling families can define the future if they inculcate into the next generation the right values.

  131. Mr. Roboto says:

    @Deti
    “I would go a step further and tell most unmarried men now to forget the idea of ever marrying. Most of them aren’t going to be able to keep a woman with them for 30 or so years. Most women don’t have the strength of character it takes to stay with a man that long. Most men don’t have the attractiveness or spine it takes.”

    This is a great advice, one of my friends was recently dumped by his now ex-girlfriend after two years of living together. It is the second time in less than five years that this happens to him. He doesn´t understand that he lacks the attractivness and the spine to keep a woman with him for a long time, and saddly this is the case of most men that go into marriage or LTR´s.

  132. Pingback: This Week In Reaction (2018/04/15) - Social Matter

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