An excellent piece at the Federalist.

Matthew Cochran at the Federalist kindly links to a recent post of mine in: If You Want Men In Your Church, Stop Treating Them With Contempt

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82 Responses to An excellent piece at the Federalist.

  1. ys says:

    Read it today from a different link, it was outstanding.

  2. Pingback: An excellent piece at the Federalist. | @the_arv

  3. stickdude90 says:

    Americans responded by watching less football and buying fewer tickets.

    I would like to commend the author of that piece for correctly using both “less” and “fewer”. It’s a rare person these days that knows the difference.

  4. vfm7916 says:

    I still see the horse from Animal Farm that gets worked to death and then sent to the knackermen…

    Going back as the article suggests would only be feasible if you and thousands of like minded men were going to initiate a coup of church leadership and purge the heresy, much like what the Churchians have done. Now, ask if you would succeed at their game, with their rules, and their resources. Most often you can’t, and this is the price of convergence. I don’t think it’s possible to rescue converged organizations without a serious schism.

    I’d go to a men only church, but not a mixed church now.

  5. Pingback: An excellent piece at the Federalist. | Reaction Times

  6. Jim says:

    Let’s be clear. As bad as all of this is, this is not a valid excuse for men to disengage from Jesus’ church.

    There is no reason for any self respecting man to go to attend a modern church when it’s nothing more than woman worship and virtue signaling to the Left. Hell, it’s not even Christ’s church at all anymore. It’s nothing more than half hearted lip service. A fake. A veneer. So no thanks, I’ll skip it.

    These so-called Pastors are worse than an outright pagan or atheist. At least the latter two don’t even pretend to be Christian. When these “pastors”, “priests” and so on stop being cowards and start recognizing husband’s authority, stop pretending like faggotry and all of this other Leftist trash isn’t sinful, then we’ll talk. Until then they will not get my attendance nor a dime for me.

  7. There is no reason for any self respecting man to go to attend a modern church when it’s nothing more than woman worship and virtue signaling to the Left.

    I get the impression that the author does not refer to those kinds of churches as churches. If he did, he wouldn’t have written this article.

    Ross Douthat (the writer of the article that Dalrock and Cochran denigrated) is still in trad-con-cuckservative mode. That is because he isn’t 40 yet. He lacks some very important wisdom.

  8. PokeSalad says:

    Let’s be clear.

    As soon as I read, “Let’s be clear” I immediately know its going to be anything but “clear.”

  9. Poke, no disrespect intended but Cochran’s article was very clear.

  10. PokeSalad says:

    None taken, but I see even he can’t resist a bit of shaming right there at the end of an outstanding article.

  11. feeriker says:

    I get the impression that the author does not refer to those kinds of churches as churches. If he did, he wouldn’t have written this article.

    Given that there are almost no actual churches in America today (“Jesus Fan Clubs” in the form of 501C3 non-profit corporations have taken their place), there’s really nothing for men to return to.

  12. Dota says:

    Read the description on the right 😀 Definitely a Dalrock reader!

  13. freebird says:

    You should read about the Federal raid on pastor Pete Peters church when he refused
    “an offer he couldn’t refuse” to make his church a 501c3.
    His claim that “Jesus Christ” OWNED the church was eventually upheld in Supreme Court,The Court Ruled that “Jesus Christ” was an actual legal person.
    His church remains 501c3 free to this day.
    Luckily no one was shot,burned,or run underfoot by tanks in the process.

    This is a MAN who refused to bow to Blalock.

  14. freebird says:

    This is what’s left after (((they))) scrubbed the net of Pete’s victory:

    “The church became involved in a controversy in Colorado which led to it being fined for a minor violation of election laws. Peters refused to pay the fine and the church was seized by the state in February 1993”

    Yes,this is true,but ONLY 501c3 churches Have to obey election laws! (equal time)
    Eventually the courts ruled that Pete’s church was not 501c3 and thus NOT held to that “law.”

    NO ONE TALKS ABOUT THE ARMED POLICE RAID ON THE CHURCH WITH DOZENS OF PARISHIONERS LOCKING THEMSELVES INSIDE.

    This act of courage HAD to be erased from the annals of history forever to discourage anyone to stand against (((their laying laws)))

    Mostly hit pieces left on The LaPorte Church of Christ.
    Even then,in their vitriol to dismantle the legend,they exposed themselves with the same old weak charge of “hate.”As seen in Europe now,any Resistance to the white genocide is called “Hate” and subject to “Das Lawz”
    RESIST
    IT’s Ok to BE White

  15. feministhater says:

    Given that there are almost no actual churches in America today (“Jesus Fan Clubs” in the form of 501C3 non-profit corporations have taken their place), there’s really nothing for men to return to.

    Exactly right!

    Let’s be clear… the only Church I will attend is one that does a few things.

    1: Disbars all women from leadership positions of any sort.
    2: Tells women to shut up and listen at all times, no excuses, i.e. Shut up, don’t care.
    3: Tells women to submit to their husbands.
    4: Makes fathers the absolute authority in their family.
    5: Disbars feminists.
    6: Follows the Bible. No excuses. Divorce is hated, single mothers are in sin, remove them from your mists.

    There is no more playing around, men NEED to continue to walk away from all societal obligations and institution and build their own lives instead. Unless and until women and society plead for them to return over the smoldering ashes of their feminist utopian experiment turned failure. This pleading will be followed by a complete and total resumption of complete and total Patriarchy in all things. Women will be in submission to their fathers and then their husbands, they will not be going to university, they will not be going ‘clubbing or partying,’ they will not be having their twenties to play the field, they will be married early and as virgins and they will learn to love it.

    Play time is over tradcons. I don’t care anymore. Let them complain and moan, it’s all they ever do.

  16. info says:

    We really ought to be training Christian men who are switched on how to properly lead. As a Wise and Just King would.

    Our current predicament is not only the rebellion of women. But the lack of wise and just rule. Either resulting in micromanagement and tyranny or subservience.

  17. Lovekraft says:

    I wonder the motivation behind the media in denigrating traditional fatherhood, masculinity. I think this small group has undue power and influence and is motivated by greed, envy and loneliness.

    I mention loneliness because I believe many of the men are in loveless marriages and/or their wives are bitter. Peel under the layer of the home lives of many of these media executives and I think you will find a morally and spiritually corrupt environment.

    Look at Sandberg, Weinstein, Zuckerberg, Zucker and the hundreds of select associates for a collection of irrational vendettas which are inculcated at a young age and express themselves in contempt for broader Christian culture.

  18. Lovekraft says:

    Molyneux in a recent video touched on two key concepts:

    1. feminism was told they could have all the privileges of men, but weren’t informed as to the sacrifice and work in getting them.

    2. deep-rooted instincts that place men as the disposable gender inhibits real attempts to address their many challenges. Society needs these men to sacrifice themselves and if it begins to realize doing so brings the entire edifice down, it would create a massive shock. So doubling down and denial persists.

  19. Hose_B says:

    @Info
    Our current predicament is not only the rebellion of women. But the lack of wise and just rule. Either resulting in micromanagement and tyranny or subservience.

    It’s almost like a curse.
    Genesis 3:16
    16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

    Her tendency towards sin is rebellion and his is to be overbearing. That is also why Jesus addresses those very things when instructing husbands and wives. He tells women to be respectful and submissive. He tells men to be loving and gentle.
    I love coincidences!!

  20. Scott says:

    I no doubt have an optimism streak. There is a part of me that really wants this featuring of a red-pill critique in a mainstream “conservative” article to be the ice breaker for a real conversation about this issue.

    On the other hand, I am beginning to internalize the message of about half the commenters here–that a “rewind” or some kind of rational discourse resulting in a rolling back of the excesses of cartoonish pastoral chivalry is possible or even wanted.

    In the final analysis, however simplistic, the comments expressed once again can be filed into the “civilizationists” versus those who are willing to watch it burn and start again at a later date with something else.

    When the second group says, for example, that a rewind to some previous order only results in us being right back here again at a later date, they are right. A breaking free of all the mores that got us here is needed, never to return. That would require earth-shattering change to our civilization, and probably violence.

    But, I have small children. At war, I have seen developing nations. Smelled the smells, walked among people who have absolutely no future. I saw my own children in the eyes of a 9 year old boy whose legs were blown off by a Taliban IED. I could not WAIT to get back here and wrap my arms around them. I was ecstatic to return to the people of Walmart, the bitchy complainers waiting in line for 5 minutes at McDonalds as if they were enduring something harsh. My own father was a small child during war and witnessed real suffering and atrocities. I heard the stories.

    And so I carry on as if the irrational system we have will continue, but I prepare for it to end. As a dad, I see no other option.

  21. Joe says:

    @freebird

    The whole 501(C)3 thing has bothered me for years. Even as a high school student in the 70’s, I thought to my self “there’s no separation of Church and state when we get income tax benefits for giving money to a Church”. I knew even then that money is power. It bothers me every time I hear for a donation push at the end of the year so that people can get their tax write-off. We’re taught how we are freed from the law, but of course the exception is that we MUST give 10%. And when teaching in giving, he left out the entire new testament. They always do.

  22. Scott says:

    Joe-

    I remember having similar thoughts as a pretty small kid.

    Like every year when the church would have its meeting of the corporate officers because “the state says we have to be organized like this.”

    I thought “I was under the impression we weren’t supposed to care about that.”

  23. squid_hunt says:

    @Joe

    The point of the tax benefit is that it is being given to a non-profit/charity. Assuming that the church isn’t being run as a profit making organization and tax shelter. If they are, I am just fine with them losing their status.

    On a side note, I don’t undertsand people that argue for paying more taxes.

  24. Novaseeker says:

    It’s a good article, but it seems hard to imagine that things can actually be turned around at this stage in terms of what is happening in the churches. I think the reason for this is that there is a very strong bent among conservative Christians to blame men for all of the problems the churches are facing regarding these issues (as Dalrock himself has pointed out countless times), and the reasons for this are deeply embedded in the male headspace, at least in this culture. Fundamental insight is this: men like beating on each other, we love it in fact, we can’t get enough of it, it makes us feel good, it makes us feel right. We can’t help ourselves but to do it. It isn’t a conservative thing, either — look at the leftie men, who just love bashing men as a sex, too. We all love to bash each other, bash our sex, endlessly, regardless of our politics, our religious status, or apparently anything else.

    Larry Kummer has an interesting article up yesterday about the idea of men forming “packs” in the future to try to come to a new solution for these issues. To be honest, while that concept isn’t problem-free (none is), it’s more realistic given the headspace most men are in when it comes to other men, and much more realistic (if no less frightening in some ways) than a total systemic collapse or, even more unrealistic, a cultural rewind or rollback of some sort. Food for thought in any case.

  25. Joe says:

    http://hushmoney.org/501c3-facts.htm

    Want to shush the Church?
    1. Make them beholden to the government.
    2. Ignore and/or misinterpret that pesky stuff in the Bible about women submitting.
    3. Hire as many betas as possible to be in charge.

    From there , just go on with the usual humiliation of men from the pulpit. Fathers day is a good place to do it, but any day will do. Then, whenever talking about women, be sure to worship them and make them your idol.

    The thing about idols, is that they always demand sacrifices.

  26. Otto says:

    The comments at the article went downhill quickly.

    Proof again you can’t discuss this problem rationally in mixed company.

    But, if you can’t openly discuss a problem without the discussion quickly degrading into a shouting match, how can you fix it?

  27. Paul says:

    Well, according to http://www.wordservice.org/1st%20page/support%201001.htm churches CAN disobey election laws, and still apply for tax deductions.

  28. Damn Crackers says:

    If there is a way for the Dalrock blog to distribute the Eucharist on Sunday’s, then I’m signing up for worship with you guys.

  29. Otto says:

    @Jim,

    Female centric teaching is just the tip iceberg of American Christianity’s problems. I would avoid a church that teaches any of these doctrines:

    Mandatory tithing
    Health and wealth
    Name it and claim it
    Prosperity gospel (your best life now)
    The dream destiny thingy
    Purpose driven gospel (Rick Warren)
    Sewing a seed to obtain God’s blessing (any TV preacher)

    The point being, it is nigh impossible to find an Evangelical church that hasn’t adulterated the word. Participating in (and financially supporting) them cannot be pleasing to God.

  30. Boxer says:

    ys sez…

    Read it today from a different link, it was outstanding.

    Scott sez…

    I no doubt have an optimism streak. There is a part of me that really wants this featuring of a red-pill critique in a mainstream “conservative” article to be the ice breaker for a real conversation about this issue.

    Some of you guys are either incredibly charitable, or you just didn’t read to the end. I just read this garbage. It’s the typical feminist bait-and-switch. Dalrock should be embarrassed to be cited in it.

    Let’s be clear. As bad as all of this is, this is not a valid excuse for men to disengage from Jesus’ church. To those men who do avoid church for these reasons, I need to say this: God has attached his promises of life and salvation to the preaching of his word and to the sacraments, all of which you find at church. The sheer scale of these gifts outweighs any amount of contempt from contemporary Christian culture.

    I’m curious as to where the “blessings” are, in attending a radical feminist meeting. There must be some, since their message, in the author’s opinion, is almost precisely similar to the Father’s Day sermons given by the typical Christian priest.

    I could easily formulate an argument that Christians have a positive duty to leave the Christian churches, with their hateful feminist teachings, and I could do it consistently with the text, unlike this character.

    Regards,

    Boxer

  31. feministhater says:

    The comments at the article went downhill quickly.

    Proof again you can’t discuss this problem rationally in mixed company.

    But, if you can’t openly discuss a problem without the discussion quickly degrading into a shouting match, how can you fix it?

    Personally, I love it. Always shows that you can’t get anything done when women are involved. The sooner the Church removes them from all positions and gets them back inline, the better for all involved. Or we can simply watch the Church burn. I’m fine with both, frankly. I’m way beyond caring. Let it burn.

  32. Boxer says:

    If there is a way for the Dalrock blog to distribute the Eucharist on Sunday’s, then I’m signing up for worship with you guys.

    Is there some part of your holy book that prohibits you from saying the prayer over the bread and wine, and giving it to your family? If so, where is this verse? I can’t find it.

    Best,

    Boxer

  33. squid_hunt says:

    @Joe

    You’re defining the symptom as the sickness. Government is always going to try to intimidate people into giving up their free speech rights. Soft intimidation is the best kind. Look at that sodomite mayor down in…Houston? Austin? That was demanding all the church messages of the pastors and using the IRS to do it. When they stood up and preached the truth, the government backed down.

    When people use church as a tax shelter, they deserve to be intimidated by the government. The church has an obligation to preach the truth regardless of the political fallout. And if you lose your tax rebates for preaching the truth, thank God you have a church that preaches the truth and keep moving on.

  34. squid_hunt says:

    @Otto

    I would add to Otto’s list:

    -You have to join our church to go to heaven.
    -You have to get married to go to heaven.
    -We’re the only ones with the truth. Ever. Everyone else is (and was) wrong.
    -Accept Christ as your saviour. (As well as these five additional steps.)
    -If you were saved you’d dress, look, and act just like us.
    -Jesus showed up and told me this new thing that you’re gonna want to know…
    -Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Except those people. They’re too far gone to be saved.

  35. Swanny River says:

    Boxer,
    FWIW, I don’t see a problem with the article’s ending because I see Cochran’s phrasing of the promise of life and salvation being tied to preaching and sacraments as an application or paraphrase of Matthew 28:18. Whether that necessitates attendance at a 501c church is a different question.

  36. Swanny River says:

    He says the scale of life and salvation outweighs the costs of going to a church. Maybe that is what you don’t like Boxer? I agree that it’s bad writing and logic. Of course eternal life and salvation outweighs anything in our lives but that wasn’t what the article was about, it was about how churches are driving men away. So maybe a better ending would have been, “We can’t forsake the fellowship, so if you plan on staying then take those churches by storm, such as blogging like that commenter at Dalrock’s, Boxer, suggests doing.”
    I was joking with Oscar in another thread, but now I am thinking that planes with red-pill banners asking good questions, would be another tool to use. More costly, but probably only needed a few times to put fear into these pastors.

  37. MKT says:

    And then there’s this:
    “For decades (if not centuries) we’ve heard the problem is the feminization of the church—that the church’s music, messages, and ministries cater to women rather than men. But what if the problem—and solution—is more basic? What if women are more inclined to pray, attend church, and say their faith is very important to them simply because they’ve first taken the time to encounter God in his Word?”
    https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/122394/

    That site is becoming worse by the day. The Thabiti Anyabwile articles (“your grandparents are guilty for MLK’s death!” are also awful. He’s sparring with James White and Doug Wilson, who’s the good guy in this case, regardless of what you think about some of his other stuff.

  38. seventiesjason says:

    I lived overseas in the third world…..rapidily changing, but still in a very, very poor region of India. Walking to work one fine morning…………..helicopers swooped overhead. Not one…..but four? Five? Suddenly the sky lit up with streaks of light…….the helicopters swooped, strafed in…..about 100 yards away a decrpit apartment building was being attacked. Gunfire being fired back at the helicopters. Explosions. It happened so fast. People on the street were ditching their scooters, hitting the deck. Screams. Yells. Women in saris fleeing to alleys….scattering, hitting the deck.

    I felt myself being knocked down by a man “get down Brtitsher” he said as the ground shook. Explosions, screams. It happened so fast. A an Indian army ground recon swooped in and was yelling in Hindi and English. “No one move. Stay down until the clear.” More explosions. Dust, debris flying and falling everywhere.

    After the confusion, and what seemed like forever……we were allowed to get up……..what happened? A “muslim extremist” group had a depot of arms and supplies in that aprtment building. The military came in, and did the job and asked questions later. Women in children in that building be damned. No one seemed shocked or concerned. When I finally got to work after going home and changing my shirt and slacks……..I expressed my concern about what happened. My Indian co-workers were “blaze” about it. “If you are going to live in a building where this activity is happening, that is on you…..glad the army and government is cracking down on this.”

    I don’t think we should be swooping in with helicopters……or military weapons…..but we the church have to stop defending our decisions with the fear of non-profit status removed, or if “people won’t like us”

  39. Swanny River says:

    Seventies Jason and Scott,
    Yes, the church might swoop in to destroy a manifestation of an enemy, but the problem is that the only problem they see is unpopularity with wimmenz.
    They think they are addressing the problems of lazy men, inattentive men, and servile women, and they get to build a bridge to unbelievers at the same time, so feminism is a win-win for them.

  40. Swanny River says:

    Church leaders think we are ignorant to the amount of complaints they hear from women, and to the amount of legit bad actions of men that they witness, so that gives them an excuse to ignore what red-pillers have to say.
    We have to carry the battle hard to the church, which just is unfortunate.
    Having the perversity of VAWA and the Duluth Model understood and reviled by the common churches would be a great victory and is an example of a strategic goal.

  41. g2-cdb27520fb49967abcc1c55ca90a2fef says:

    For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

    No need to support heresy and idol worship. Go Your Own Way in God, men.

    tweell

  42. Anonymous Reader says:

    Any exposure of The Glasses / red pill to a larger audience is a good thing. Even when there’s a distinct whiff of “ManUP!” at the end, because of the truth told and the linkage provided on balance it’s a small win. Little cracks in the wall for some light to shine through are always good to see.

    The comments went pretty much as one might expect: right from the start trolling by atheists, a Boomer feminist[*] who tried to monopolize comments, “mah denomination! It’s right!”, but fewer White Knights than one would have seen a few years back. Plus more comments from men who have specific objections beyond general griping. This is progress, as is the article itself.

    [*] Lately I find myself less prone to read comments on various sites, because time after time the comment stream just devolves down to two or three Boomers either arguing with each other or running a mutual congratulation club. Some people need to get a hobby other than commenting on blogs (he said, in a blog comment…).

  43. MKT says:

    “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
    No need to support heresy and idol worship. Go Your Own Way in God, men.”

    Except Heb. 10:25 says “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together” and Paul’s epistles are addressed to churches, not individuals. And let’s not forget all the stuff about elders and deacons…or was that just for show?

    Just because the church is less than ideal (always has been, at times more than others), don’t fall for the “me and God alone in the backyard on Sunday mornings” heresy.

  44. Damn Crackers says:

    @Boxer – I don’t know. I wish I could send all of you a bottle of good wine and fresh baguettes.

  45. Damn Crackers says:

    @MKT – Aren’t we assembled here together? Don’t we have elders, deacons, and even a bishop as well?

  46. MKT says:

    Crackers,

    Do you have sacraments, teaching, prayer and church discipline (and no, arguing in the comment section or banning people isn’t church discipline)?

    Of course not.

  47. DrTorch says:

    Tangent, but perhaps of some interest
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43534724

    Capitol Ministries is now in 43 US state capitols, and more than 20 legislatures abroad.

    Each class is led by a local pastor, but none is led by a woman. Why not?

    “There’s no [Biblical] prohibition of female leadership in commerce, there’s no prohibition of female leadership in the state, and there’s no prohibition of female leadership over children,” says Drollinger.

    “But there is a prohibition of female leadership in marriage, and female leadership in the church. And those are clear in scripture… it doesn’t mean, in an egalitarian sense, that a woman is of lesser importance. It’s just that they have different roles.”

  48. Lost Patrol says:

    @MKT

    Gospel Coalition article:

    Why Are Christian Women More Religious Than Christian Men?

    Because faith and religion are not the same thing. Professional, and semi-pro clergymen often have a hard time with this.

  49. Gunner Q says:

    MKT @ 12:14 pm:
    “Paul’s epistles are addressed to churches, not individuals.”

    You sure about that?

    Colossians 1:2: “To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father.”

    Philippians 1:1: “Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers and deacons”

    1 Corinthians 1:1: “To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours”

    Doesn’t sound like Paul was talking exclusively to formal church organizations. The “church of God at Corinth” clearly didn’t mean “Supervisor, Corinth City Hall, Office of Christian Theology”.

    Early Christians assembled in the catacombs. We today assemble on the Internet for the same reason: persecution. We just aren’t being rounded up yet because we still have guns, like Christ taught.

    @ 12:37 pm:

    “Do you have sacraments, teaching, prayer and church discipline (and no, arguing in the comment section or banning people isn’t church discipline)?”

    Heh, “church discipline”:

    http://gunnerq.com/2018/04/09/charisma-magazine-reports-no-church-discipline/

    seventiesjason @ 11:18 am:
    “I don’t think we should be swooping in with helicopters……or military weapons…..but we the church have to stop defending our decisions with the fear of non-profit status removed, or if “people won’t like us””

    I suspect this is a Baby Boomer attitude that is going to die with the Boomers over the next couple decades. They have a genetic inability to believe American government is capable of evil. Only Soviet Russians can be evil!

    Oh, so that’s why the Deep State keeps seeking war with Russia. Baby Boomer solipsism. Sigh, a globalist plot would be preferable. The war would at least have a reason.

  50. feministhater says:

    Just because the church is less than ideal (always has been, at times more than others), don’t fall for the “me and God alone in the backyard on Sunday mornings” heresy.

    Fix your own darn Churches. The Church isn’t just less than ideal, it’s actively evil, conniving and hostile to men.

    There is no heresy in removing oneself away from evil. These Churches are no longer of God, they are of the culture.

  51. Otto says:

    @squid_hunt,

    I chose that list, because the are commonly taught in mainstream Evangelical chuches.

    The Southern Baptist Convention, which is held up by many as a conservative, Bible believing denomination, has been infested by at least half of those heresies (Mandatory tithing, Prosperity gospel, The dream destiny thingy, Purpose driven gospel).

    When a pastor says “only members of our church go to heaven” red flags for almost everyone.

    But, when a pastor says “God has a dream destiny for you to do big things” few will recognize that they are being fed a piece of femminist rhetoric* that has been adapted to Christianity.

    * It struck me that Peterson’s “clean your room” advice was often met with “but they have big things to do, a destiny to achieve”. Feminist have told women for decades not to waste their life on mundane things (like marriage and motherhood). Rather, they should thing big and acheive their destiny.

    The dream destiny thingy is just another secular, it’s all about me, idea that has worked it’s way into Christianity.

    This link is worth checking out. When you compare it to femminist rhetoric, it becomes obvious it is preached to please women.

    http://www.piratechristian.com/berean-examiner/2016/5/dream-destiny-infection-spreading

  52. Oscar says:

    Stop treating men with contempt? That’s crazy talk!

  53. vfm7916 says:

    @feministhater

    Nice line. “These Churches are no longer of God, they are of the culture” I’d replace culture with World, but that’s just quibbling.

    @MKT: You’re saying the same thing the OP is at the end of the post. Converged Church is Churchian, and not fixable. It’s the same metaphor as mixing white and black paint, or good compromising with evil; It’s no longer white paint or good.

    Jesus did not die for our sins to bond us to a church organization as the means of salvation. You speak to God on a channel drawn in the blood of Jesus’ sacrifice, forever. It’s not the organization, or the house, or the pastor, songs, sermons, etc. that lead to salvation, but your prayer and repentance to God; made possible by the Son’s sacrifice.

    Even Jesus had to whip the evil out of the temple; modern church needs the same.

  54. squid_hunt says:

    @Oscar

    Real men can take it and come back begging for more. Time to man up and accept your contempt men. You’ve earned it.

  55. Swanny River says:

    Squid Hunt,
    That’s a good formula because it follows a comfortable script for the church. We like that script for race issues, so why not use it for fem issues, and again in several years when we change our views about gays.

  56. squid_hunt says:

    @Swanny

    You only think you’re joking…

  57. squid_hunt says:

    @Otto

    I don’t think most of what I said is unusual in different sects of Christianity. You get different nonsense in different regions and denominations.

  58. Gary Eden says:

    We are to fellowship with one another. Nothing in the scriptures says we have to do that only during defined hours at a place of business that hangs a ‘church’ sign out front.

    Feminist churches aren’t churches of God, but of the Holy Woman. They are in rebellion against God.

  59. ys says:

    Cochran said don’t give up on church because there are still good other men in church. There are at mine. I know there are people who aren’t walking faithfully at my church, too.
    But the benefits of going: 1) Obedience to the Word that says we should go; 2) Training up children, who will not understand nuanced reasons why some here wouldn’t go; 3) Regular feasting and studying on the Bible.

  60. Opus says:

    I am intrigued that Jason was mistaken in India for British. Indians, surely, can tell the difference – or would it have been a deliberate mistake either our of respect (for their former rulers) or dislike (of Americans)? Indians with their sing-songy vocal-modulations sound not a little Welsh.

  61. Pingback: By the election of Christ, not a new electorate. | Dark Brightness

  62. MKT says:

    vfm7916,

    You’re welcome to make up your own religion, but the church and Christianity are part and parcel. It’s all over the place, from Acts to Paul’s epistles to Revelation. Church discipline (yes, there should be excommunication and other discipline, we just see very little of it these days;, sacraments; church offices (deacons, bishops); preachers (full-time or tentmakers) are meaningless without the church. Without the church you’ll have to throw out almost the entire NT and hold on to a few pet verses and truncated theology. In other words, all you’ll have is a cult…if there’s more than one of you.

  63. Damn Crackers says:

    @MKT –

    Which Church do you mean? Which Church is the real one?

  64. Oscar says:

    @ squid_hunt says:
    April 10, 2018 at 1:39 pm

    “Real men can take it and come back begging for more. Time to man up and accept your contempt men. You’ve earned it.”

    Did you just assume my gender?

  65. Oscar says:

    Speaking of confused people, OT: the death of women’s sports continues apace.

    https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/04/09/boston-marathon-will-allow-transgender-women-to-compete-as-women-this-year

    “Organizers of the Boston Marathon have given the OK for transgender women to compete as women in the April 16 race through the city and surrounding suburbs.

    At least five openly transgender women have signed up to compete in the 26.2-mile race, the Boston Herald reported.

    ‘We take people at their word. We register people as they specify themselves to be’, said Tom Grilk, chief of the Boston Athletic Association. ‘Members of the LGBT community have had a lot to deal with over the years, and we’d rather not add to that burden’.

    The Boston Athletic Association’s decision has sparked controversy among some experts who believe runners who were born as men but now identify as women may have a competitive edge over the other female runners.

    ‘If they still have male gonads, they will have an advantage over other women — there is no way around that’, Bob Girandola, associate professor in the Department of Human Biology at the University of Southern California told the Herald. ‘It gives them an unfair advantage. Maybe they have to have a separate category if they’re going to do that. It’s a dilemma’.

    But others say transgender women don’t have an advantage if they’ve taken medication to reduce their testosterone levels.

    ‘That’s a misconception and a myth’, Dr. Alex Keuroghlian, director of education and training programs at the Fenway Institute, told the Herald. ‘There’s no physiologic advantage to being assigned male at birth’.” ~ The Blaze

    By the way, Dr. Keuroghlian is a psychiatrist who works at the National LGBT Health Education Center.

    https://www.lgbthealtheducation.org/about-us/our-staff/alex-keuroghlian/

  66. BillyS says:

    I don’t believe in mandatory tithing for a Christian, but I do believe in most of the things in Otto’s list, though not necessarily with those who espouse the rhetorical names he uses. (I definitely name what I find in the Scriptures and claim it for my life, for example. I haven’t claimed any good cars, though I am glad to have a paid off Honda Accord to drive for quite a while. I am also not a fan of Joel Osteen, though I did like his dad’s sermons.)

    As to 501c3 status: It is rather stupid to let the government take a large chunk of donations in most cases. The tax system we have now is very immoral, but it is there and I see no reason to give the government any more. Though most Christians don’t put their money where their values are. How many support righteous causes with their income and seek ways to do more of that? How many simply keep it for themselves, often in the name of “tithing is not required” or some such excuse?

    Many rich progressives are happy to throw their money around, but the same is not true of those who oppose them in many cases. That is a tragedy as well and shows it is not just churches that are the problem.

  67. BillyS says:

    Jason,

    The “sin” for that action lies on the muslims who hid among the innocent. Many more people will die if such things are left unhandled, especially in such countries. No good solutions, but we need to hold the right people morally accountable.

  68. Scott says:

    “There’s no physiologic advantage to being assigned male at birth.”

    Then I say again.

    Time to get rid of the male handicap on the Army Physical Fitness Test (APFT).

  69. seventiesjason says:

    Opus. I was just assumed to be British…..the white people who did visit that region were mostly Brits. Americans go to the Taj Mahal, New Delhi and Bombay. Also remember this was 1998. IBM was putting a lab there, and it was new presence in that region for American business. Aggressive monkeys there too. Cockroaches that were of huge size. Cows walking around. Looked like a Duran Duran video from the early 1980’s…….or an Indiana Jones movie. But lots of street people still………the only other Americans I met were fellow IBMers and it was not a huge operation being started there.

  70. vfm7916 says:

    “the church and Christianity are part and parcel.”

    What doctrine? What dogma? What hierarchy? What buildings? What ceremonies? Images? Policies? Music?

    Good luck going down that road.

    No building, no priests, no hierarchy, ceremony, etc. is needed for me to worship the Lord. I’ll share fellowship with those not yet tainted by the converged churches, but I’ll not set foot in the den’s of snakes that most modern churches are.

    If you want technical accuracy, the two-by-two’s have the most historical or biblical similarity.

  71. Lost Patrol says:

    National LGBT Health Education Center.

    But of course there’s a national center for this!

  72. Oscar says:

    Well, yeah. LGBT health is a national issue, donchakno?

  73. Badman says:

    My church is rather theologically conservative, but every couple months we’re treated to a “guest sermon” from a woman. Sunday was one of those days, and as she walked to the pulpit I held my breath…

    Now, I actually respect this woman very much, but during her “sermon” she said something that completely set off alarms in my head:

    “Leah and Tamar may have been unloved, but they would become queens in heaven! And maybe some of the women at church here today feel like Leah or Tamar. My message for you is that you will be a queen in heaven!”

    Wow, so apparently “daughter of the King” isn’t enough anymore? Oh, and needless to say, while Leah and Tamar were celebrated during her message, men, including Jacob and Judah, were shamed.

    Yes, all men sin–Jacob and Judah included. But let’s not forget the fact that both were victims of life-altering sexual deception from those very “queens in heaven”. With sermons like this, I can see why men are turning away.

    (Loyal reader and former lurker here)

  74. DrTorch says:

    Badman- I have listened to guest sermons from women, but over the years I have decided that I will take a stand b/c this is explicitly wrong.

    As for Queens in heaven, I am reminded of Jer 7:16-19

    16 “Therefore do not pray for this people, nor lift up a cry or prayer for them, nor make intercession to Me; for I will not hear you. 17 Do you not see what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The children gather wood, the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke Me to anger. 19 Do they provoke Me to anger?” says the Lord. “Do they not provoke themselves, to the shame of their own faces?”

    and even more tellingly Jer 44 (read the whole thing).

    Now I realize that queen in heaven is different than queen of heaven. Sort of. The feminists’ adoration of women (and the churchian leaders who follow along) are essentially repeating this same idolatry. They’re putting a little polish on it, but underneath it looks essentially the same.

  75. DrTorch says:

    Sorry, I meant to add, I take a stand by literally standing up and walking out.

  76. squid_hunt says:

    @Badman

    Any woman that gets up and preaches to a congregation is already out of order. If you’re expecting anything good to come from that, you’re being naive.

    The Bible says Jesus makes us kings and priests. It never mentions anyone being made a queen. What scripture is she using to support her statements?

  77. Heidi says:

    @Oscar: LGBT health should be a national issue! People engaging in disordered sexual relations, or with a mental illness that makes them imagine that they belong to the other sex, are definitely not well.

  78. Gary Eden says:

    Now I realize that queen in heaven is different than queen of heaven. Sort of. The feminists’ adoration of women (and the churchian leaders who follow along) are essentially repeating this same idolatry. They’re putting a little polish on it, but underneath it looks essentially the same.

    Yep its just more women worship. There is only one king in heaven. The women don’t all get to become queens.

  79. Badman says:

    @DrTorch

    Yes, my first reaction was that “queen in heaven” sounded pagan, and almost certainly wasn’t supported by the Bible (or if it was in the Bible, would have been in a negative context, as you pointed out). In retrospect, I should have stood up and walked out.

    This year I have spoken with some of my male church friends about our occasional “female guest sermons”, and while some have also expressed concern, their consensus was that the good (the “actual” sermons, community, service, etc) outweighed the bad, and that they can’t expect to agree with the church (lowercase “c”) 100% of the time.

    I’ve thought about talking to the pastors about this, but I know it can be very sensitive. I’ll pray about it in the meantime.

  80. da GBFM zlzoolzlzzlzozlzloozozo says:

    8. The difference between modern ministers and pimps is dat
    a) pimps will not charge you for past use of a pussy
    b) pimps are not fronting a divorce regime which transferz money from menz to owmenz and the state at gunpoint
    c) a pimp cannot garnish your wagesz if yo ho beocme preggeersenenlzlzlzlzo
    d) a pimp does not ask for donationz
    e) a pimp doesn’t claim he’s doing god’s work by grating you temporal use of a pussy in esxhange for past, present, and future wages
    f) all of da aboveez zlozlozlzlzozozoz

    lzozlzzlzol

  81. Richard Cook says:

    This is why I am glad I am Eastern Orthodox.

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