They had a good run.

Last week Tucker Carlson had Mark Steyn on for a segment about the trans boy* who won the Texas state championship for girls high school wrestling.  In the discussion Steyn stated that this has ruined the girl’s state wrestling championship.

This had me wondering just how long girls high school wrestling has been around.   Carlson and Steyn are also talking about a broader issue, but with regard to girls wrestling in specific it struck me that there is a very narrow “progressive” window for what the two conservatives are mourning.  A society has to reject traditional sex roles enough to encourage girls to wrestle, but it has to be traditional enough to not yet embrace transsexualism.  Girls wrestling is a sort of Goldilocks phenomenon.   It can only occur for a short window when everything is just right.

With this in mind, I set out to learn how long there has been a girls wrestling championship for trans wrestlers to ruin.  How long is the girls wrestling Goldilocks window?  It turns out that only six states in the US currently have state championships for girls wrestling, and that Texas has the second oldest:

girlswrestling

Twenty years ago when Hawaii created the first girls wrestling state championship the conservative argument would have been that girls shouldn’t be wrestling.  Today the conservative argument is that trans wrestlers shouldn’t ruin girls wrestling.  This puts the observed outer limit of this Goldilocks zone at twenty years, but most states today still don’t have a girls wrestling state championship, and half of the states that do have one have had one for less than ten years.

*A girl taking hormones to transition to a boy.

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85 Responses to They had a good run.

  1. Kevin says:

    Girls wrestling as a sport is gross and unbecoming of women.

    I wonder if it was hard for this kid. Did she have any losses? And arent those pretty embarrassing since she is on steroids and the other girls probably aren’t?

  2. anonymous_ng says:

    Well, it’s a good thing that Christianity is in the world, but not of the world, so that this society is eating itself, and doomed is ultimately of no eternal import. The persecution is probably coming sooner rather than later.

    Shrug.

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  4. Major Styles says:

    On a related note, Ronda Rousey threw Triple through a table in the WWE this week (the buildup being for Wrestlemania 30 something): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsciN7COX1g

    I thought to myself, “If I say that it was fake, does that make me a sexist?”

  5. earl says:

    I thought to myself, “If I say that it was fake, does that make me a sexist?”

    Nah…160 pound women can pick up and throw 250-270 pound men through tables all the time. I’ve seen it happen several times in movies.

  6. Opus says:

    Surely… a female taking hormones is a female taking performance enhancing drugs?

  7. SnapperTrx says:

    I think Rush Limbaugh said that liberals move the goal post that conservatives fall back to over and over. Where X was unacceptable five years ago, liberals push so far past that limit that when conservatives can get back to what they once considered unacceptable, its so far back from the extreme that it seems normal. That is the case with these kinds of things.

  8. SnapperTrx says:

    Wrestling is NEVER fake, good sir!

  9. Darth Curmudgeon says:

    @ earl
    Used to be a woman needed a genre-specific plot device to throw men around. She either had to be a vampire, or a cyborg, or really a non-human thing in disguise, or born on Krypton to do it.
    Now she can just do it… So basically movies with vampires, robots, and aliens are actually more plausible than today’s non-fantasy movies. Wow.

  10. Major Styles says:

    At this point, it’s more real that the major news networks….and more entertaining.

  11. Major Styles says:

    Yes, if Hollywood says it’s true, then we must believe. 🙂

  12. earl says:

    I give props to Triple H for helping her out by jumping up beforehand.

  13. ys says:

    Many other states, if they don’t have girls wrestling, permit the girls to compete with the boys. This leads to all sorts of other issues, as this article demonstrates:

    http://www.espn.com/espn/news/story?id=6136707

  14. SnapperTrx says:

    When I read the post by Major Styles I pictured, in my mind, the default wrestling “squat and jump” that typically accompanies these throwing moves! Brings back memories of being a kid and watching the good ol’ WWF back in the day!

  15. Opus says:

    Women wrestling. Wasn’t there such a scene in From Russia with Love? – but they were ethnically challenged or Gypsy’s or something and thus could not be expected to be more refined unlike the hotter chaster girls bedded by 007.

  16. Anonymous Reader says:

    Opus, the Gypsy girls were having a catfight over a man, that’s hardly in the same camp as these wrestling matches. For a start, wrestling matches have rules…

  17. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Opus: Women wrestling. Wasn’t there such a scene in From Russia with Love?

    What you refer to as “women’s wrestling” was traditionally referred to as a “cat fight.”

    I’ve seen old Westerns in which two women start fighting in a saloon, scratching and pulling hair. A man will yell, “Cat fight!” Then all the men back off, grinning and laughing as the women fight.

  18. Cane Caldo says:

    I say drop we should drop these out-dated patriarchal barriers and let men and women fully compete against each other in sports. Let the epic lessons commence!

  19. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Young female arrested for punching boyfriend: https://nypost.com/2018/03/06/college-student-beat-up-boyfriend-over-breakup-cops/

    Kathryn A. Mahoney, a Fairfield University student, was arrested Thursday for allegedly punching her boyfriend in the face when he suggested they stop dating, the Fairfield Citizen reported.

    Police said Mahoney, 19, responded to being dumped by striking him in the stomach and nose, leaving him bleeding. …

    The victim reportedly took himself to a local hospital to get treatment for a swollen and bloody nose, according to the Fairfield Citizen.

    Mahoney was taken into custody and booked on third-degree assault and disorderly charges.

  20. rocko says:

    This begs the question, and bear in mind I admit to not being knowledgeable on the subject: if trans people take testosterone, wouldn’t that be illegal for them to compete because of “performance enhancing”. And for that matter, assuming that one day they get to compete in the Olympics, wouldn’t this be an issue for the IOC? Bear in mind they didn’t allow the Russians to compete under their own flag in these past Olympics because of doping.

  21. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    And another crazy ex-girlfriend charged with attempted first degree murder of her boyfriend. https://nypost.com/2018/03/06/boyfriends-tinder-sends-woman-into-jealous-rage-with-samurai-sword-cops/

    Emily Javier, 30, reportedly slashed her boyfriend with a samurai sword early Saturday in a violent act of vengeance when she suspected he was unfaithful, according to The Oregonian.

    Police said the bloody assault at their Camas home left 29-year-old Alex Lovell fighting for his life…

    Authorities discovered Lovell inside with “injuries all over his body” and curled up in the fetal position, KOIN reported. He was rushed to the hospital in critical condition.

    Javier was taken into custody and booked at Clark County jail on first-degree attempted murder charges.

    She appeared Monday at Clark County Superior Court, where her bail was set at $350,000.

  22. Opus says:

    @ys

    Can’t hit a girl.

    Let us not forget that at the 1924 Paris Olympics Eric Liddell refusing to run on a Sunday gave up his place in the 100 metres (of which he was certain to win Gold*) and went on (on a day other than Sunday) to win Gold in the 400 metres breaking the world record in the process – not that he was a four hundred metre runner. I don’t see therefore why Joel is being mocked by ESPN.

    *His British record for the 100 yards in 1923 remained unbeaten until 1958!

  23. gunner451 says:

    @Red Pill,

    The first guy must have been a soy boy to get beaten up by the gal in the photo and then to go to the hospital? What a joke. The second guy was crazy/stupid to go to sleep when his girlfriend is waving around a sword. At the very least he should have been worried about being Bobbittized.

  24. In the discussion Steyn stated that this has ruined the girl’s state wrestling championship.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGzGLHR624w /snark

  25. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    More rot in the U.S. Military: U.S. Air Force Academy Symposium Presents Transgender Couple, Marxist, and Sex Guru As Models: https://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/faith-and-morals/item/28440-us-air-force-academy-symposium-presents-transgender-couple-marxist-and-sex-guru-as-models

    The headliners at the Academy’s recent 25th National Character and Leadership Symposium were: Air Force Staff Sgt. Logan Ireland and his “wife,” Laila, who had served as a male soldier in the U.S. Army before his/her transgender transition; Cornel West, a celebrity Marxist philosopher, LGBT activist, propagandist for Communist China’s genocidal dictator Mao Zedong, and Harvard professor of African-American Studies; and Dr. Ruth Westheimer, the aging sexologist and media darling who endorses virtually every form of sexual deviancy, as long as it’s done “lovingly.”

    The USAFA’s two-day symposium (February 22-23), according to an article by the Academy’s public affairs office, was “designed to ‘stretch thinking’” of the Air Force cadets.

  26. American says:

    A feminist wrestler shoots herself up full of testosterone and beats the snot out of the other feminist wrestlers. Wait until a boy wrestler shoots himself up with estrogen and beats the snot out of the feminist wrestlers. It’s an entertaining freak show watching leftists cannibalize each other.

  27. ray says:

    Yeah Old Cucker, he and the Grrls of FOX are big fans of #MeToo, as well. Huge cheerleaders. Everything but the pom-poms.

    Now Cucker and Mark Steyn are upset because the precious princesses — after forty long years — got a taste of what REAL Equality looks like. And baby, America’s ‘conservatives’ luuurve them some Equality . . . when it benefits themselves, their daughters, and their wives. FAT IRAs.

    In those rare cases where Equality does not benefit themselves and the Grrls, well, they are dead-set agin’ it. Tough, wild mavericks that they are!

    With conservatives like this still running the show, there is little need for Progs. They’re only useful for pushing the Equality Envelope further.

  28. earl says:

    ‘And another crazy ex-girlfriend charged with attempted first degree murder of her boyfriend.’

    Green hair…she had it out there she was poison.

  29. stickdude90 says:

    If someone wants to transition into a boy, or transition into a girl, great…
    – Mark Steyn, famous conservative thinker…

  30. stickdude90 says:

    Steyn’s comment was at 4:20 in the video – apparently my link didn’t pick up the correct time.

  31. earl says:

    Conservatives are just 5 years behind the progressives.

  32. Scott says:

    Shared and commented:

    This is a fantastic analysis of the problem modern “conservatives” face, using the microcosm of girls high school wrestling being ruined by transgenders.

    You must understand this to understand the critique of genteel conservatives by the dissident right. We do not believe you are trying to “conserve” anything anymore. Why should we?

    And I admit, I fell for it for many, many years.

    If you would have asked me 20 years ago to describe or articulate what the long term goals of the “conservative” movement were, it would have been inconceivable for me to come up with:

    “All of the policy ideas of the left will be implemented, just over a longer period of time so people can adjust.”

    But that is EXACTLY how “conservatives” have behaved for my entire life.

    The polite “right” in America exists to be the spoonful of sugar that helps the inevitable medicine of the coming dark, childless, killjoy leftist dystopia go down. They play the role of grumpy curmudgeon who ultimately gives in after a period of time.

    The system is now set up to insure steady, leftward “progress.” It doesn’t matter whose fault it is. But it may be reversible if so called “conservatives” can be shown this new paradigm.

    All the institutions have fallen. Every single one. There are only small pockets of individuals and families resisting and trying to behave according to previous iterations of rationality, tradition, civility and natural law. We seem like freaks from another planet or time to the legitimate world.

  33. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Professional conservatives cuck because they have too much to lose. They are, after all, professional conservatives. Conservatism is their job. And it’s a lucrative job — book deals, radio shows, cable TV shows, columnists.

    But if a professional conservative leans too far right, he is labeled a “hater.” Corporate advertising disappears. Media companies cancel your shows, book deals, columns.

    And so the professional conservative must sell a message that satisfies their rightist customers, without upsetting their globalist bosses and SJWs.

  34. Spike says:

    I moonlight as a trainer in martial arts at an inner city school.
    When it comes to men fighting women, men can never win.
    If he hits too hard, he’s ”Out of control. What does he think he’s doing, hitting a girl”?
    If he goes easy on her, she uses it as a licence to go to town on him. When that happens, she brags about it forever and he never lives it down.
    I separate the sexes. I tell my class, ”Men have thicker skulls, testosterone and more muscle. You can fight them if you like, but understand that they will damage you. That’s biology, not me being sexist or some crap like that”. I get compliance.

  35. JDG says:

    Twenty years ago when Hawaii created the first girls wrestling state championship the conservative argument would have been that girls shouldn’t be wrestling.

    Yep. How slippery is the slope on which the window slides.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window#/media/File:Overton_Window_diagram.svg

  36. Luke says:

    I think that this “men in dresses claiming to be women predictably beating the cr*p out of women in competitive sports” thing is hilarious and 99% a good thing. First, it exposes the hypocrisy of feminists in general and the pro-transsexualists in particular, and that’s clearly constructive, leading towards more accuracy in public discourse. Second, it’s meritorious; why should a person (who happens to be born a woman) who doesn’t run fast enough (or whatever good enough) to take 100th place in open competition get a prize anywhere near what the (male) winner will take home, or indeed, ANY prize at all? I would love to see all school and professional sports be by law, 100% sexually integrated. This would show that women are NOT men’s equals in a large percentage of life, with the resulting influence on public perception that since women (outside their traditional roles as mothers/wives/helpers) can’t contribute as much, perhaps they don’t deserve as much, in the way of decisionmaking and rights. Women never subject to Selective Service should not have the vote that traditionally is paired with it (if someone could vote at all).

    Women are either kept under control, or become as tyrannical as they are unwise, and it’s back to barbarism. I rather like electricity, medical care, enough food to eat every year, and odds of living to 75, rather than 21. If that means women not voting, getting to change who they have sex with, to decide to stop having sex with a husband once married, or getting to take important jobs that men MUST hold (or those jobs don’t get done) to keep those good things, so be it.

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  38. Anon says:

    This article is great for pointing out how useless cuckservatives are. Even the cuckservatives that are opposing the latest types of feminist (as Tucker is).

    Girls wrestling is a sort of Goldilocks phenomenon. It can only occur for a short window when everything is just right.

    This is true for far more beyond female sports. This is true for a paradigm where 70-80% of ALL government spending is a transfer from men to women. A huge array of forces, from the immigration of people from gender normative cultures, to specific immigration by rent-seeking women, to the emergence of technologies like VR Sex and AI, are all chipping away at this massive malinvestment of resources.

  39. infowarrior1 says:

    ”And another crazy ex-girlfriend charged with attempted first degree murder of her boyfriend”
    That’s evil not crazy.

  40. It’s going to take more than testosterone to turn this young lady into a man. Any man worthy of the name would insist on wrestling against males or simply sit it out. Wrestling against the girls for the easy win is not a convincing way to argue that you see yourself as a male.

  41. DrTorch says:

    Girls wrestling as a sport is gross and unbecoming of women.

    Yes, I agree. I hate seeing my son wrestle girls on those occasions. Although he doesn’t take it easy on them by any stretch.

    For the record, other states offer open state tournaments for HS aged girls, so there are “state championships”, even for those who compete in against boys in HS.

    I have stated on the wrestling forum boards of my state that if they want wrestling to grow, they’d stop having girls wrestle. Didn’t get any responses pro or con.

  42. Bart says:

    Red Pill Latecomer, you said,

    “Professional conservatives cuck because they have too much to lose. They are, after all, professional conservatives. Conservatism is their job. And it’s a lucrative job — book deals, radio shows, cable TV shows, columnists.

    But if a professional conservative leans too far right, he is labeled a “hater.” Corporate advertising disappears. Media companies cancel your shows, book deals, columns.

    And so the professional conservative must sell a message that satisfies their rightist customers, without upsetting their globalist bosses and SJWs.”

    I think you are largely correct! In addition, I think it is probably largely true of “Conservative Pastors, Theologians, and other religious leaders”. The trajectory present in the political realm is also present in the theological.

    That’s how we get supposed “solid conservatives” like Albert Mohler compromising on homosexuality (see the book the Grace of Shame by Tim Bayly).

  43. Luke says:

    Re the “transsexuals”, or as the coarse but observant comedian Andrew Dice Clay termed them, “transtesticles”: I believe that a chromosome test could usefully and should be used in over 95% of cases. You say you’re an XY or XX, with attendant privileges (avoid conscription for women, get to vote/be in the military in peacetime or other highpaying traditionally male-held jobs for men) well, the karyotype rarely if ever lies.

  44. ray says:

    RPL — “The USAFA’s two-day symposium (February 22-23), according to an article by the Academy’s public affairs office, was “designed to ‘stretch thinking’” of the Air Force cadets.”

    Transgender and Marxist brainwashing for the military’s next generation ‘soldier’. They won’t know HOW to fight, but they’ll damn sure know WHO to fight.

    The AF wasn’t that way when I was enlisted. That doesn’t seem like generations ago, it seems like another galaxy. A better one.

  45. Opus says:

    As today is International Vagina Day I could not but notice that my favourite station on the wireless has devoted the entire day to broadcasting music written by women and only women. I cannot quite decide whether this happens just once a year because by the highest standards the music is fifth rate or whether it is our yearly treat to the best music; either way women composers are seen as different from composers, much as Kornikova is not Federer or any of the lowly ranked male also-rans of Tennis. Either way you have never heard of any of these female composers – not even you Americans know Amy Beach, the best known of yours. What the day really needs is a transsexual composer; so I find it trans-phobic that I cannot trace anything in the schedule written by Wendy (previously Walter) Carlos. Then there is Joan Shakespeare though I understand that John became Joan through a simple spelling mistake – but that should not hold them back.

    They are as it happens broadcasting Vanishing Bridegroom by the mistress of the queens music. I once held the manuscript score of this opera in my hands (had it on the table, actually – I was at the BMIC) and recall thinking how excellent it would be to add a few notes (no one was watching me) and there were a few blanks spaces where I could fit in some testosterone imbued rape-cultured notes thus confusing future musicologists. I resisted the temptation – actually, I quite like the piece and will listen-in.

  46. Bee says:

    ys,

    That espn article about the girl wrestling boys in Iowa has the girl’s father bragging about raising her as a boy:

    “She’s my son,” says her dad, Bill. “She’s always been my son. Since she could walk, she’s always been the tomboy, busting stuff up, walkin’ through glass with her bare feet. Finally, her grandma said to me, ‘You ought to get her wrestling.'” And she’s been doing it since the second grade.”

  47. Opus says:

    @Bee
    The main problem with girls wrestling and the like is that eventually boys will retaliate – then of course it will be ‘you can’t hit a girl’. Lots of girls are tom-boys but pre-pubescent children are physically not so dis-similar yet even so girls seem to have no motivation (other then through affirmative encouragement) to kick a ball, construct a tree-house or amass toy-motor-cars and soldier figurines – or buckle on a pretend gun.

  48. Luke says:

    Bee says:
    March 8, 2018 at 5:14 am
    “ys,

    That espn article about the girl wrestling boys in Iowa has the girl’s father bragging about raising her as a boy:

    “She’s my son,” says her dad, Bill. “She’s always been my son. Since she could walk, she’s always been the tomboy, busting stuff up, walkin’ through glass with her bare feet. Finally, her grandma said to me, ‘You ought to get her wrestling.’” And she’s been doing it since the second grade.””

    This immediately reminded me of what I say to summarize how women pursuing careers as would-be CEOs, tenured college professors, attorneys, military service, surgeons, etc., tends to result in rotten personal life outcomes for those women.

    “LIVE LIKE A MAN DOES, EXPECT TO GIVE BIRTH TO AS MANY CHILDREN AS A MAN DOES.”

    It’s so predictable, after close to 50 years of women trying to ape men, when they’re NOT men, not in their talents, preferences, life goals, or (most of all) their physiology.

  49. earl says:

    “She’s my son,” says her dad, Bill. “She’s always been my son.

    Because sons have periods and grow breasts.

  50. FPD72 says:

    The Texas year of inception is accurate but misleading. Prior to that year, wrestling was not a UIL (official state sponsored) sport. Competition was on a club level. There were regional and state meets, but they were not “official.” So 1999 was the first year for BOTH boys and girls divisions for UIL sponsored wrestling.

    Prior to 1999, all wrestling matches and tournaments were not governed by the UIL and some tournaments were open to both boys and girls, with no separate divisions. Girls wrestled against boys. My son’s sophomore year, his coach pulled the team out of a tournament because girls were going to be entered. He did not want his boys wrestling against girls.

    So, in a way, the existence of a girls division in 1999 was an improvement, since it ended the practice of boys wrestling against boys. I’m confident that Title 9 type considerations entered into the equation. If having a girls division was the price the sport had to pay to gain UIL recognition and end boys wrestling against girls, so be it.

  51. ys says:

    Opus-
    I agree with your premise that it shouldn’t have been surprising Joel would forfeit the match.
    As to why he was mocked, well, the article indicated he was from a large, conservative, Christian, homeschooling family. Need we say more?

  52. Opus says:

    @ys

    …but they don’t mock Eric Liddell of whom, I see, a second movie – the first was of course Chariots of Fire – has recently been made, this time without Harold Abrahams (100 metre gold medalist) and focusing on liddell’s missionary work in China – where he died in captivity in 1945. I feel very sorry for Joel but he will live to fight another day. I also feel sorry for Charlie Paddock (1920 Olympic 100 metre gold medalist) and the other American Jackson Scholz in 1924 who have to play second fiddle to Abrahamason and Liddell – and Lord Burghley (400 hurdles gold). They were great athletes too – but someone has to lose on the day, in fact most do.

  53. BillyS says:

    The first guy must have been a soy boy to get beaten up by the gal in the photo and then to go to the hospital? What a joke. The second guy was crazy/stupid to go to sleep when his girlfriend is waving around a sword. At the very least he should have been worried about being Bobbittized.

    And thus some continue the idiocy by proclaiming any man who is beat up had it coming, in one form or another. Would you say the same of the woman who hung with a clear thug? I doubt it. Society would certainly chastise you if you did.

    Note that he tried to “grab her shoulders” in the first story, so he must be guilty of abuse per the Duluth Model. It is never appropriate to even restrain a woman and the man must be the aggressor/ Anyone recognizing the total foolishness of this claim will then come to those who claim “he had it coming” to discount any attempt to hold women accountable.

    The same problem can be seen with hawt teachers who have sex with underage students.

    Even these people wouldn’t have any standards if they didn’t have double standards.

    I say we should black knight away. Hold females to the same standards as men and quit making excuses for them!

  54. BillyS says:

    RPL,

    I can’t figure out why a man would ever want a transgender for a spouse. Why not go with the real thing if that is what you want?

  55. ys says:

    Opus-
    Not sure Liddel wasn’t attacked. He didn’t “oppress” women? Or the fact that he was a successful Olympian.
    Agreed about Joel, that story was a long time ago and I wonder what he’s up to now, but he did live to fight another day I am sure.

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  57. Frank K says:

    But if a professional conservative leans too far right, he is labeled a “hater.” Corporate advertising disappears. Media companies cancel your shows, book deals, columns.

    Yet one more way the mega corporations control us.

    And at he office, you have to ghost. And any form of “bad think”, whether it saying that you voted for Trump or are a member of a “disapproved” religious group, will land you in the “next to layoff pool”.

    We are for all practical purposes living in a fascist society, where if you oppose them you will be labelled a fascist. I suppose it’s only a matter of time before they come and close churches for being “hateful”, and the Supremes will nod in agreement and say that the fist ammendment doesn’t protect “hate”. You won’t perform homo marriages? Hate! You’re gone!

  58. Swanny River says:

    Frank K,
    I think the churches that would get shut down would only be due to the gay issue. Any gov lib is probably ignorant of the male-elder only churches being covertly feminist. If they knew what an ally the churches are to feminism, they would leave them alone.

  59. Frank K says:

    @Swanny – I agree, that will be the initial litmus test. But I also think that once the churches that refuse to submit and are forced to go underground, that the next litmus test will be defined: lack of ordained female clergy could be one, not allowing divorce and remarriage (without a need for an annulment) though most churches have already folded on that one. Or even saying that there is no salvation without Christ could be an issue, because hate, you know.

  60. Swanny River says:

    Great hypothetical Frank K, that is, how many male-elder-only churches would try to avoid a shutdown by naming a woman to a ministry leadership position? Most is my guess, they are all dying to have women leaders anyhow, so civil obedience would be just the cover they would like.

  61. Swanny River says:

    To refine my hypothetical more, the gov could tell the churches, ok, you don’t have to have gay clergy or do gay marriages if you have a female in a leadership position. What percentage would say ok?

  62. BillyS says:

    Swanny,

    They are doing fine letting women rule from behind the scenes, so I am not sure adding women to the board, or whatever, would be likely to happen in those cases.

    My previous pastor spoke regularly about how the church would face persecution soon from the world, but he was the one who let several key women in the church (including his wife) mislead my ex into thinking her decision to divorce was acceptable. He personally called her once to talk her out of it, long after it was too late, but he never stood against the other things.

    He also proclaimed that my challenge of these things was just me defending myself. He was fine holding to the Word in one place, while denying its true power and holding the women in the church accountable.

    I don’t expect they would ever add female leaders, but that would not mean they really opposed feminism.

  63. theyard says:

    Long time reader/lurker, first time commenter. This type of transgender toss up is infecting all sports and all levels at the moment – even gritty disciplines like olympic weightlifting are no longer safe.

    https://www.smh.com.au/sport/athletics/new-zealand-transgender-lifter-laurel-hubbard-bids-for-gold-at-worlds-20171204-gzy5xx.html

    Here’s a professional superheavy weightlifter from New Zealand, Laurel Hubbard, that has an extensive competition history as a male before (Gavin Hubbard). Sure, “she” has to make sure her blood testosterone levels fall into ranges that biologically certify that she is not a functioning male. But that doesn’t account for her new advantages competing against a class of women that don’t have the same adaptations when it comes to muscular/bone density, upper body strength, hip/lower limb anatomy.

    I’ve written about it as it relates to weightlifting (I sport I’ve trained/coached for nearly 10 years) here: https://theyardwl.wordpress.com/2017/12/07/the-dark-intersection-of-politics-and-sport/

    The IWF (International Weightlifting Federation), IOC, and other organizing bodies/media outlets are championing this as a modern victory of gender-bender empowerment, but how do you think the girls Hubbard competed against and beat feel? Sports and politics have always been intertwined, but this current path we’re on is dark. What’s the end game…discouraging young girls from pursuing sport because they’ll get blown out competing against physically more dominant males? Wasn’t Title IX designed to end this type of thing?

  64. Swanny River says:

    Theyard, Aren’t you doing what Carlson and Steyn are doing? That is, you are cementing feminist gains into a male space because you are so worried about girl athletes, even in power-lifting. I hope I am not understanding your comment correctly. Do you really want to fight to protect female power-lifting space?

  65. theyard says:

    @Swanny Rivver:

    Hmm, not sure how you got that out of my post. If women want compete in wrestling, weightlifting or powerlifting (different sport BTW), so be it – they have their own gendered weight classes for a reason. “Feminist gains into a male space” is a moot point if the sport/federation already has provisions for female classes, like wrestling does, like weightlifting does, like powerlifting does. FYI, female classes have been in the World Weightlifting Championships since 1987 and in the Olympics since 2000. At the end of the day, there’s nothing inherently gendered about lifting a barbell overhead.

    Are these sports the most feminine examples out there? No, no at all. But if women chose to train them and then go on to compete, they should be competing against other women. Female weightlifters across the board aren’t as explosive or strong as their male counterparts – that’s just a biological fact based on physiology.

    To put things into perspective, Hubbard’s (who weighs 135kg/297lbs, unlimited class athlete) 2nd place competition total in the +90kg class (275kg) doesn’t beat the winning total of lightest men’s weight class’ (56kg/123lbs) at 279kg. Doesn’t take a savant to see that in such physical sports, biological males have distinct advantages regardless of overall mass and shouldn’t be competing against weaker, less developed female athletes.

    Sport is a powerful tool that teaches life lessons, inspires sound work ethic, and builds character early on for both boys and girls – I’m not one to restrict a young girl’s access to a sport if there are proper provisions for her to compete against her female peers. I’m not worried about female athletes competing in unfeminine sports – that’s their choice and they’ll have to live with those repercussions. I’m worried about men that claim to be women entering women’s sporting organizations where they absolute slaughter the competition because they have certain critical physical adaptations that no woman will ever develop, even if they trained the sport for 20 years.

  66. Frank K says:

    Some years ago, I committed the unforgivable sin at the lunch table with my coworkers. It was during a women’s soccer world cup. One of my coworkers waxed eloquently about it and knowing that I followed soccer, he ask me if I was following it.

    I said no.

    “Why?” He asked me incredulously,

    Because it’s boring. The women are slow, their shots are weak and they simply lack the athleticism the men have.

    And then I committed the unforgivable sin: I said that outside of the US, no one cares about women’s soccer, and that the TV ratings backed me up on that,

    Hoo boy, that earned me some glares. I wondered if I was going to get reported to HR. How dare I say that women’s sports are boring. It’s a good thing that I didn’t mention that the US women’s team scrimmages with high school boys, and often lose!

    We are so poz’d in this country, it’s not even funny anymore.

  67. Frank K says:

    Wasn’t Title IX designed to end this type of thing?

    The purpose of Title IX was to take away scholarship money and funding form men’s collegiate sports and give it to women.

  68. Opus says:

    @Frank K

    I cannot imagine how it is in America, but in England (the inventors or at least codifiers of ‘the beautiful game’) women playing Football (as we call it) is seen as a joke – by everyone. I was watching a clip today of a well known commentator and former player unable to restrain his laughter at highlights of the top match of the season between the girls. Words fail to describe (and I speak as a former F.A. registered player) the exasperating incompetence – and these are the best girls we have. The captain of the winning team on being presented with the trophy then proceeds to drop it its three parts coming apart as it topples to the ground.

    I have never seen women playing football – so over here such activity is pretty rare.

    Tonight the BBC broadcast a concert of orchestral music by five female composers. I had never heard of any of them and if I have not heard of them you may assume they are really obscure. Producing these five however must leave the equality theorist in a quandry for usually the cry is that men prevented women from composing but now it must be that concert promoters deliberately snubbed them. That 99% and more of male composers have their works left on the shelf is of course conveniently ignored.

  69. Frank K says:

    Opus – Glad to read your comment. My accuser told me that Europeans are crazy about women’s football, implying that I didn’t like because I’m a misogynistic Latin American. But I knew he was full of it.

    As for the sport itself, they’ve been trying hard for years to get it off the ground, but have mostly failed. Yes, there is pro league (Major League Soccer) which in a few markets (like Seattle) it draws 40,000 per match, but in most markets they are lucky draw more than 20,000. But as you might have heard, we won’t be in Russia this summer (unless we decide to invade)

  70. Frank K says:

    “Words fail to describe (and I speak as a former F.A. registered player) the exasperating incompetence”

    I know what you mean. I’ve seen better play by 14 year old lads. Believe it or not, some Americans think that women are better at football than men, most because the American women have won the world cup and the men have not.

  71. stickdude90 says:

    Believe it or not, some Americans think that women are better at football than men

    Including the women players themselves –

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Women%27s_National_Soccer_Team_pay_discrimination_claim

  72. stickdude90 says:

    I know what you mean. I’ve seen better play by 14 year old lads.

    So have the women players themselves –

    http://usatodayhss.com/2017/the-fc-dallas-u-15-academy-team-beat-the-u-s-women-s-national-team-5-2

  73. Luke says:

    Theyard said:

    “To put things into perspective, Hubbard’s (who weighs 135kg/297lbs, unlimited class athlete) 2nd place competition total in the +90kg class (275kg) doesn’t beat the winning total of lightest men’s weight class’ (56kg/123lbs) at 279kg. Doesn’t take a savant to see that in such physical sports, biological males have distinct advantages regardless of overall mass and shouldn’t be competing against weaker, less developed female athletes.”

    You’ve almost got it right. Weaker, less developed athletes shouldn’t be competing where they stand no chance of even competing competently. Yes, that means that there would be no Olympic or professional female winners (or even competitors) in most sports. So? There aren’t going to be any 5′ tall men players in the NBA, either; they’re just not good enough at what the sport requires, and that’s simple justice.

  74. Hugh Mann says:

    Female wrestling is like female boxing (or here in the UK female rugby) – if they want to do it, fine, but I don’t care for it and never will. In the case of 15 a side rugby (not the sevens game which maybe women could play, skill and speed are premium), who wants to know their country can produce the biggest, toughest, most man-like women? That should be a source of shame, not pride.

    The BBC keep bigging up women’s soccer, but no one cares, my son says his youth team would cane the England side.

    Scott – that is a fantastic comment which could stand as a blog post – or op-ed – all on its own. Maybe Dalrock should put it up.

  75. Tangential says:

    Frank K – as far as I can tell, the only country in Europe which “cares about” women’s football is Sweden – and even there it means that the media is pushing it incessantly, but people don’t care and only follow men’s.

  76. Opus says:

    @Frank K

    When I was in America I always used to pin up on the office notice-board the scores that your national team* achieved and for the edification of my American colleagues. Little interest was taken as they were all first and ten. It may thus come as a great surprise to Americans to learn that although on this occasion they will not be at the World Cup Finals (they usually are) America is ranked normally somewhere in the world’s top twenty. In short they are very very good.

    England has yet to get over the fact that in the 1950 World Cup in Brazil we lost 1-0 to America and repeated the ignominy in, I think, 1994. The shame; and for a country that were world champions in between those two dates. America is our bogey team, though truth to tell the only team we actually want to play are Germany and otherwise don’t seem to try very hard.

    Thinking about movies involving Soccer I can only think of one involving men – the awful (Escape to) Victory** from 1981 yet I can think of two involving women playing Soccer, the charming Gregory’s Girl from the same year and the more recent Bend it like Beckham. What does that tell you given that women cannot play the game to any competence!

    ” I of course mean the men
    ** Like Michael Caine in that movie I too (at least aspired) to be of West Ham (my local team – of whom we say it was West Ham that won the 1966 world cup – Moore, Greaves, Hurst, Peters) and England. As one English manager once opined when asked whether soccer was a matter of life and death, ‘no, it’s more important than that’ so you see how it stands with us.

  77. Jason says:

    Comedian Bill Burr on “womens soccer” in the UK. WARNING….it’s Bill Burr full of Bostonian f-bombs

  78. Frank K says:

    “of whom we say it was West Ham that won the 1966 world cup”

    That reminds me of this picture (which Americans won’t understand)

  79. Moses says:

    Mein Gott! Look at the square jaw on that girl, erm i mean “boy”.

  80. DrTorch says:

    Son had end of season wrestling event tonite. One girl on team earned varsity letter, and placed 4th at state for girls (again, tournament not run by the same organization as boys, so Dalrock’s list misses several states that do it this way).

    Anyway, it was announced that she was the first girl ever to earn a varsity letter for wrestling at this HS, the entire place erupted with cheers. Not that they are Christians or even conservatives, but somehow this was delightful. She did not earn it for the prescribed wins or even participation at Varsity level, but she may have attended every practice and JV event, which is one way of earning varsity letter, and that’s hard work. But no one there even stops to consider whether girls should wrestle.

  81. BillyS says:

    My high school track coach gave a letter to any senior being on the team the entire year. It was to acknowledge the effort, though largely meaningless by that time. I wonder if it was something like that in this case DrTorch.

  82. feeriker says:

    who wants to know their country can produce the biggest, toughest, most man-like women? That should be a source of shame, not pride.

    American women take extreme pride in their butchness. And their obesity, for that matter…

  83. DrTorch says:

    It was to acknowledge the effort, though largely meaningless by that time. I wonder if it was something like that in this case DrTorch.

    I don’t know if it’s meaningless. It certainly dilutes the meaning of the letter, although moreso for track than wrestling. You absolutely need partners for wrestling practice, and the guy who guts it out for a season, making the team better even if he doesn’t get the matches, deserves some credit.

    However, the coach bragged about inviting anyone to wrestle when they taught his PE classes. I suggest that it’s nothing to be proud of when girls accept that invitation. I remember seeing matches throughout the season where girls wrestled young men at the varsity level, at several different weight classes. I don’t think any of them did better than lose by tech fall.

  84. Yoda says:

    There’s a reason why Venus and Serena have dominated the women’s tennis scene for so long. Look into it…

  85. Pingback: Tackling the patriarchy, holding the door open for trannies. | Dalrock

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