Weak men are screwing her feminism up.

As I mentioned before, Wendy Griffith tells us she met “Michael” after doing an interview with a Christian dating site, where she chastised Christian men for not manning up and asking Christian women out.  Michael saw the interview and sent her an email through the site.

Michael clearly stood out from the rest of the “interesting” inquiries I had received in response to my no-nonsense interview in which I had urged men to man up and not be afraid to ask women out!

Based on the content and the timeline, this 2011 interview with ChristianCafe.com appears to be the interview that spurred Michael to ask her out.

The interviewer asked Griffith if part of the problem is that Christian men aren’t asking Christian women out.  She replied:

Oh, absolutely. I was talking to a young guy at the gym the other day, and he said that he never asks women out. He was a nice guy and I asked him why. He said, “Oh, I got hurt once.” You know, be a man! That’s part of life to take risks! I’m not going to ask a guy out. I don’t think it’s my place. I was taught that men like a challenge and they are the hunters and all that. I was shocked that this guy was just going to let all the women ask him out, because it was less risky. Something is wrong with that picture and I certainly don’t think that was the way God intended it. I think that men need to step up and take a chance!

Michael watched the interview and surely thought to himself Why not take a chance?  What’s the worst thing that could happen?  In retrospect, plenty!  Aside from what Griffith tells us was a sizable financial and time investment, he also was trashed by Griffith across Christian media (their common profession).  She even wrote a book about what a terrible suitor he was!  Granted, she didn’t give his full name, but she tells us he also has a successful career in Christian media.  Surely many in his personal and professional circle know that he is the bad man who broke Griffith’s heart, prompting her to write a book warning all Christian women away from men like him!

If men have an obligation to man up and ask women out, women have an obligation to not drag the man through the mud if things don’t go as hoped.  But Griffith’s one sided view of tradition comes out in other ways as well.  While men must act traditionally by risking nuclear rejection and spending lavishly, women have no obligation to avoid the temptation to draw out the courtship process for decades.  One of Griffith’s recurring complaints in the interview is that churches aren’t doing enough to cater to women like her who have drawn out their husband search into their 40s*:

I’ve never been married and I’m in my 40’s. There are a lot of families present, but it seems like the men come only after they’re married. The few guys that are there usually aren’t the “manly” men that I know I’m looking for. I think there is a lack of “real” men in the church.

[Churches] have singles outreaches for the 20-something crowd and early 30’s, but they don’t have anything for those over 40. But, even if they did, the men just aren’t there! But, thank God that there are some ways to connect online. The men are out there, as the statistics show. But, finding them, that’s the issue.

In the same interview Griffith complains that Christian men need to man up and get with the times since women like her refuse to be confined to traditional roles:

Interviewer:  Some men are intimidated by successful women such as yourself.

Griffith:  Well, they need to get over it, because we’re here and we’re waiting! “Man-up” and come and find us. There are a lot of gorgeous single women in the church, so get the men in here!

*At the time of the interview just under seven years ago. Now she appears to be in her early 50s.

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260 Responses to Weak men are screwing her feminism up.

  1. Frank K says:

    Men aren’t intimidated by “successful” women. But they know better than to marry a ball busting, hypergamous feminist who masquerades as a Christian woman,

  2. thedeti says:

    A woman who writes a book about a man who “done her dirty” and wouldn’t marry her is a brave hero, a champion for women, a soldier for Christ, and a pearl of great price.

    A man who writes ANYTHING ANYWHERE about a woman who done him dirty is a whiner, a pussy, a simpering coward, a knave, and a filthy rag.

  3. Nick Mgtow says:

    A 50 year old woman would have to pay me for me to have sex with her.

    I’ve turned down women in their mid 30s or even early 20s, even when I was single at the time.

    Good luck to those strong, unbearable, unfeminine women.

  4. Son of Liberty says:

    Be a man! And Eat the leftover plates at a local restaurant.
    Be a man! And wear used undies at your local donation outlet.
    Be a man! And be tolerant of leftovers while ignoring adultery, fornication and virginity as mentioned in the Bible!!!

    The only thing I’d be man enough to acquire leftovers, is a well kept, silent, never nagging, 100% compliant, submissive, obedient used vehicle. If that vehicle silently sneaks and drives itself out of my garage to park itself to my next door neighbors for him to drive, I’d dump that used car. But that has never been a problem in the history of used vehicles.

  5. earl says:

    Some men are intimidated by successful women such as yourself.

    No we are irritated by their delusions of grandeur.

  6. Pingback: Weak men are screwing her feminism up. | @the_arv

  7. Jason says:

    Of course, if any manly single men ever did show up in church, they would immediately be labeled as the not-manly men which the author complains about. How is a man supposed to change a woman’s mind about him after her mind has already been made up?

  8. earl says:

    I’m not going to ask a guy out. I don’t think it’s my place. I was taught that men like a challenge and they are the hunters and all that. I was shocked that this guy was just going to let all the women ask him out, because it was less risky. Something is wrong with that picture and I certainly don’t think that was the way God intended it. I think that men need to step up and take a chance!

    Didn’t she ask out a guy and he turned her down to go to the gym?

  9. A man who writes ANYTHING ANYWHERE about a woman who done him dirty is a whiner, a pussy, a simpering coward, a knave, and a filthy rag.

    That’s a law of nature I think. What do you do?

  10. thedeti says:

    GIL:

    Well, you come to the manosphere to get it off your chest.

  11. thedeti says:

    Well you come to the manosphere to get it off your chest. But that doesn’t mean negative connotations should be attached to it.

  12. The Question says:

    “If men have an obligation to man up and ask women out, women have an obligation to not drag the man through the mud if things don’t go as hoped.”

    In theory and according to the traditional social contract, that is how it should be.

    The reality is the opposite, and there’s nothing that can compel women to change that as long as there is an abundance of beta bux perfectly willing to overlook her conduct toward the previous man, or feral gummit taxing said beta bux to cover fair maiden’s expenses.

    All I can say is that it pays to be the first, in the middle, but never the last one in line.

  13. feministhater says:

    Well, they need to get over it, because we’re here and we’re waiting! “Man-up” and come and find us. There are a lot of gorgeous single women in the church, so get the men in here!

    Go screw yourself Wendy. What a piece of work… never mind all the false accusations going around, she bad mouths any man who has tried.. it’s ludicrous to now expect men to continue ‘manning up’ with all the changes in the past one hundred years. The landscape has changed, women demanding everything and got it, now they demand men serve themselves up for either marriage to a ball busting women and as a platter to be ridiculed, shunned, mocked, derided and pushed from pillar to post and for what? This broad? Fuck that.

    Listen lady, you’re not worth this sort of risk, to me and most other Christian men, you’re worth no risk at all, none. F off, write your stupid books, make money off stupid, vapid modern wimmen but don’t you dare complain that men no longer want to deal with you. You gave men an ultimatum, we took it and that’s that.

  14. earl says:

    I’ve never been married and I’m in my 40’s. There are a lot of families present, but it seems like the men come only after they’re married. The few guys that are there usually aren’t the “manly” men that I know I’m looking for. I think there is a lack of “real” men in the church.

    She doesn’t want to be married. She just insulted the whole group of men who are the best chance to be a suitor.

  15. anonymous_ng says:

    Meh. She’s no more delusional than any other woman, just in a different way. I used my throwaway free OKStupid account to demonstrate to my boy the delusional nature of women. I could pull up example after example of overweight women in their late 20s, to early 30s with SJW degrees, obligatory pictures with the locals in some impoverished corner of the developing world, all the while looking for the kind of man who has options beyond whether the MA is social work is more problematic than the MA in journalism.

  16. Well you come to the manosphere to get it off your chest. But that doesn’t mean negative connotations should be attached to it

    Beats whining about it to my wife.

  17. I’m kinda impressed that she is so successful in selling the idea that you can stumble through life and no matter what happens you can never be held responsible for it to so-called Christian women. But, that “daughter of the King” bullshit is so intoxicating to women it could give meth a run for its money, so maybe its not so impressive after all.

  18. Gunner Q says:

    “Oh, absolutely. I was talking to a young guy at the gym the other day, and he said that he never asks women out. He was a nice guy and I asked him why. He said, “Oh, I got hurt once.””

    Methinks she rounded down.

  19. John Q Public says:

    Sad and pathetic. Stop writing about this, man, it’s depressing.

  20. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    How come no Christian man ever replies, “Yeah, well I’m a Son of the King. So time to ‘woman up’ and make me a sammich.”

  21. earl says:

    ‘How come no Christian man ever replies, “Yeah, well I’m a Son of the King. So time to ‘woman up’ and make me a sammich.”

    That would certainly be an eye opener.

  22. greginaurora says:

    She’s not a woman. She’s an old woman.

    Spinsters are frowned upon.

  23. thedeti says:

    “I’m a Son of the King, and since I’m your husband I’m also your lord and master. Got a problem with that? Take it up with God, not me. Take it up with Paul (Ephesians 5) and Peter (1 Peter 3).”

  24. Embracing Reality says:

    It’s obvious that Michael figured out that he was in fact the true “prize to be won”. Well played sir, good show!

  25. rocko says:

    “I’ve never been married and I’m in my 40’s. There are a lot of families present, but it seems like the men come only after they’re married. The few guys that are there usually aren’t the “manly” men that I know I’m looking for. I think there is a lack of “real” men in the church.”

    Mind you, I’m not a Christian myself, but even I wouldn’t treat a church as a dating site, which I think that’s what this woman is doing, instead of what it actually is, a temple of worship. Mind you, which one of us DIDN’T try to ask out the cute choir girl or the girl sitting in front? But then again, that was when I was a teenager. This woman is in her fifties and still behaving like a teenager. I can’t imagine how she actually behaves in church, which families around her and all.

  26. Oscar says:

    “[Churches] have singles outreaches for the 20-something crowd and early 30’s, but they don’t have anything for those over 40. But, even if they did, the men just aren’t there!” ~ Ms Wendy

    Of course the men she wants aren’t there. Those men are back in her 20s, where she left them.

  27. JD says:

    Why do you see so many women in church without their husbands? Are we fighting an epidemic of men who don’t go to church?

    Not at all. It’s just that the men in church are either single or have their wives with them, while the women who have husbands probably have husbands who aren’t churchgoers. This is because male Christians filter for Christian women in their dating, while female Christians DO NOT filter for Christianity in the men that they date.

    Single Christian men are the most repulsive (to women) men in the world. Every red pill behavior is unchristian, and every Christian behavior is blue pill. Even if they can be red pill outside the church, in church land they look blue pill “nice.” So the Christian women don’t want them unless they have Chad looks, which is rare in all populations.

    Single Christian women fall for non-Christian men and marry them, all while making token efforts to drag them to church. They prefer this to dating the already-Christian men, who are too busying showing Christian love and turning the other cheek to ever look like alphas.

    I have never gotten a date with a girl I met at church, despite lowering my standards significantly for what seemed like good wife material. Not one date. Outside the church? Even in the vicious world of online dating I get more attractive dates than these girls who are shooting me down.**

    **Please note, some of these dates are decently Christian; they can appreciate me because they meet red pill me before they ever meet the church guy version.

  28. Oscar says:

    @ rocko says:
    December 12, 2017 at 3:28 pm

    “This woman is in her fifties and still behaving like a teenager.”

    That’s what I observed in a previous post. Ms Wendy combines the wisdom and maturity of a sorority girl with the body of a 53-year-old, menopausal woman. What a catch!

  29. Finding it interesting how somewhere down the line women were informed or instructed that men are hunters and will aggressively and tirelessly go after whatever they want in women. He will pursue, chase and “capture” them, right?.
    And if he doesn’t do all that, well, then “he’s not serious”, “he’s immature” and “not a real man”.

    Nevermind the fact that women aged 17 to 32 today are aggressively approaching rosters of men, having home-run sex with them and not requiring any dates, time, attention, devotion or investment from such men.

    Men do pursue women, and aggressively at times. But over too long a period, this leads to fatigue. And frankly these days it’s a significant legal risk.
    If only it weren’t for the inner hunter in men that recognizes diminishing returns.
    “Manning up”, asking her out, organizing and paying for dates, and chasing a woman down doesn’t make the guy a real man. In today’s SMP (and MMP) it only makes him a fool.

    Women want men to chase and they want men to view them as rare “pearls” of price=infinity and to believe that there is an urgent shortage requiring male desperation, action and a run on the market. “Literally, dude! Get out there! Man Up! And date/marry these women before it’s too late!”

    That’s just female projection of their own desperation, expiring lottery ticket and fast approaching sell-by date (The Wall).

    This is also necessary for women to feel good about themselves. It is always and forever all about her. On some subconscious level women have to admit that aside from her vagina, she doesn’t really bring a lot to the table to enhance or improve a man’s life in a long-term marital relationship anymore. Most women, like her, bring attitude, ingratitude, legal risks and financial liabilities.

    Why devote all of your attention, exertion and energy into one woman who either isn’t returning it, or who is currently returning it, but may ultimately and AT ANY TIME flake out or reject it anyway? The most valuable resource for men is time, and women today seem content to deliberately waste it.

    This same question is being asked by married dudes now as well, who have finally figured out that they have been demoted to what resembles “girlfriend/roomate” status with their own wives while living with HER children.

    Wendy is 50, so she’s simply going to be blind to the fact that the supply of single, available, and sexually promiscuous (generous) women has ballooned over the last 15 years. I mean, seriously, among women today age 17 to 29 there is some prolific carousel riding going on. They are setting records.

    The magnitude of these serial sexcapades alone have disqualified a generation of women from ever being considered by single, marry-minded men as suitable, devoted and sexually generous wives and mothers.

    There will always be plenty of desperate beta males though to pick up the slack.
    But that notion rubs completely against the grain for the legions of Wendies out there who are convinced God says they MUST NOT SETTLE!

  30. Novaseeker says:

    The few guys that are there usually aren’t the “manly” men that I know I’m looking for. I think there is a lack of “real” men in the church.

    Ah, and more entitlement. She’s just an endless fountain of it, it seems.

    Remember, here “manly” means “hot”. What she is saying is that the men in church who are single are not hot enough for her. Well, ok, that’s fine, everyone has their standards. But it’s entitlement coming out of the mouth of a 47 year old woman — extreme entitlement, really.

    And who meets their spouse in church these days anyway? Bueller? Bueller?

  31. Yet Another Commenter, Yet Another Comment ("Yac-Yac") says:

    Dalrock (December 11, 2017 at 2:30 pm wrote:

    Griffith explains that one of the ways God frequently talks to her is through vanity license plates. God once warned her off of a man she thought might be the one by having someone with a vanity license plate that read “redherng” cut her off in traffic.

    Hunh.

    So, let’s see: “redherng” — it could as easily “mean” RED HERRING, as, say, “RE-Dee her ring” — as in, “get her wedding ring ready”, or whatever … i.e., it could just as easily have “been” God telling Ms. Griffith that the man she was involved with at the time, is [was] The One.

    This is a game of apophenia, or better still one of Rorschach blots. Which is to say, any given license plate could literally “mean” anything — anything at all that Ms. Griffith either consciously or subconsciously (actually) desires. This is why psychiatrists use the Rorschach blot test, to try to get information about the patient’s character, personality, and subconscious thoughts.

    In this case, this story is just a confirmation that Ms. Griffith has no genuine intention whatsoever of marrying any man, for any reason, ever. The rest is just details.

  32. Dalrock says:

    @Oscar

    “[Churches] have singles outreaches for the 20-something crowd and early 30’s, but they don’t have anything for those over 40. But, even if they did, the men just aren’t there!” ~ Ms Wendy

    Of course the men she wants aren’t there. Those men are back in her 20s, where she left them.

    Ha! Well played.

    The other side of this is if she really believes what she is saying. She is saying that single attractive women like her are a dime a dozen in the church, and single attractive Christian men are incredibly rare. Who exactly is the prize to be won? She squeals that there is a terrible man shortage, yet she acts as if there is a huge oversupply of them (and teaches other women to do the same). Which is it?

  33. earl says:

    @Dalrock…

    You expect her to understand supply and demand? Most of them barely understand cause and effect.

  34. earl says:

    But, that “daughter of the King” bullshit is so intoxicating to women it could give meth a run for its money, so maybe its not so impressive after all.

    It doesn’t even make sense when I think about it now. Jesus is the King…He’s not their father. If I remember correctly a Christian is a brother or sister spiritually in Jesus. I don’t see how at least logically or biblically that she’s some princess or daughter to the King.

  35. OKRickety says:

    JD said:

    Why do you see so many women in church without their husbands? Are we fighting an epidemic of men who don’t go to church?

    Not at all. It’s just that the men in church are either single or have their wives with them, while the women who have husbands probably have husbands who aren’t churchgoers. This is because male Christians filter for Christian women in their dating, while female Christians DO NOT filter for Christianity in the men that they date.
    […]
    Single Christian women fall for non-Christian men and marry them, all while making token efforts to drag them to church.

    I’ve seen this all of my life. How can anyone believe that men are the entirety, or even the majority, of the problem?

    The preacher who clearly teaches the commandment that being unequally yoked in marriage is disobedience to God is either a unicorn, or ignorant of the consequences in churches today.

  36. PokeSalad says:

    She doesn’t want to be married.

    Of course not….marry? And lose her lucrative shtick that brings in the rubes(and rubles)?

  37. evilwhitemalempire says:

    I suspect that women were actually more proactive and assertive back in the dark days of pay tree are key.
    Anyone else get that vibe?
    It seems like women chasing men is actually a ‘hillbilly’ thing. NOT a ‘new age’ woman thing at all.
    If there’s any truth to the Ellie May Clampet from the Beverly Hillbillies stereotype.
    I know that the only girl that ever directly solicited ME for sex (and a hot red head at that) sounded like she came from a place way, way back in time.
    Thoughts?

  38. Lost Patrol says:

    Remember, here “manly” means “hot”.

    Are there male unicorns?

    Be manly! Be a ‘real’ man, not like the ones at church. But come to church anyway and pursue me there. And remember not to be intimidated by my success and no-nonsense interviewing style, you need to get over that. “Man-up” and come and find us.

    Never mind that she has crafted a mental list for this man that is self-canceling. He simply needs to be Mr. AF, AND Mr. BB, AND he better hurry up about it.

  39. earl says:

    Never mind that she has crafted a mental list for this man that is self-canceling. He simply needs to be Mr. AF, AND Mr. BB, AND he better hurry up about it.

    She doesn’t want to be married.

  40. Anonymous Reader says:

    Dalrock
    Which is it?

    Both, of course. God told her so.

  41. Luke7 says:

    If someone really wanted to screw with Miss Griffith, both legally and not expending much effort or cost, here’s what they could easily enough do:

    -Mail her a (ideally poster-sized) printout of the classic SMV chart. Circle and label her current position on it. Draw a horizontal line from her current age to the age of a (older) man at her same SMV, with a note under it that shows that a woman of that age can’t go younger than that, unless it’s just P & D, or if their income is a tiny (like 1/10th or less) fraction of hers. Then, imagine being a fly on the wall as she opens and reads it; guaranteed screaming fit, if not an aneurysm.

  42. Luke7 says:

    earl says:
    December 12, 2017 at 4:35 pm
    @Dalrock…

    “You expect her to understand supply and demand? Most of them barely understand cause and effect.”

    Hands-down thread winner. You nailed it.

  43. Spike says:

    Can someone also tell Ms Griffiths that men are not ”intimidated by strong women.”’

    This is an overused trope and it’s found everywhere. When men mean ”strong” they mean a mental and physical toughness that enables them to do the impossible, day in, day out.Look at Strongman competitions, Ironman or any sporting endeavor. While bridges and construction nowdays is cleaner courtesy of technology, in the past men had to battle malaria, yellow fever, dysentery and tuberculosis. The deaths of a hundred men in building a bridge or skyscraper was considered an acceptable loss.
    When women say they’re ”strong”, they don’t qualify it with any of the above.They simply mean they have a big mouth and a bad attitude.
    Any woman who says she’s ”strong” should be avoided. Her mouth has demonstrated immediate grounds for disqualification.

  44. galloper6 says:

    “Lots of gorgeous single women in the church”, Is there a word for that level of delusion?

  45. Otto Lamp says:

    Griffith explains that one of the ways God frequently talks to her is through vanity license plates.
    AAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGG!

    This type of hyper-pentecostal horse manure is destroying Christianity in America. It’s gotten to when even so called grounded, conservative, fundamentalist denominations are falling for this…####.

    If you want to hear God speaking to you, open a Bible and read it out loud.

  46. Jake says:

    No she doesn’t want to be married. She prefers the unknown price of her pearl. When she realized she missed the boat on getting a half decent man her brain rewrote the narrative. She is now an unobtainable jewel.

    Money is great and all but it’s secondary to what she craves. Attention. The flurry and bustle of her life is to make sure she gets enough to still the quiet moments when she’s alone. The moments when the beautiful glamorous lie can be seen as cheap costume jewelry.

    I find a lot of what you write edifying, but i think this well is now dry. Wendy Griffith will die alone, and is not made for such a thing.

  47. Son of Liberty says:

    @Otto Lamp

    As prophesied in Revelation, the 7th and final church age, Laodicea, “Lukewarm” age of Christianity is exactly what is going on today.

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  49. freebird says:

    The few guys that are there usually aren’t the “manly” men that I know I’m looking for. I think there is a lack of “real” men in the church.

    Well we all can’t pull down 150 million big ones/yr Wendy.
    Better keep your day job slobbering Pat’s knob

  50. Tom C says:

    The “intimidated by strong women” angle works well if you want to end a relationship without a lot of drama or other difficulties. Let her know that you are kind of insecure about her superior status (income, education, social skills, etc.) by slipping it into conversation a few times before the actual break-up. Then when you tell her that’s the reason why you can’t see her any more she will believe you.

    Another way to sow seeds of doubt, particularly early on in a relationship, is to suggest that she pick up the check in a restaurant. Don’t ask to split it, ask her to pay the entire bill. She may do it without complaint, even telling you she is happy to do it, but she will seethe about it later and analyze it with her girlfriends.

    The idea with both of these methods is to get her to think that she is the one dumping you, not the other way around. It helps pave the way for a cleaner break-up with fewer psychotic-ex hassles.

  51. @galloper6
    ‘ “Lots of gorgeous single women in the church”, Is there a word for that level of delusion?’

    Women are constantly schmeering each other with over the top compliments and platitudes like “OMG, she is sooo-oh amazing!”, “Like OMG, she is such a good catch!”, “Sooo-oh beatiful!!”
    Nevermind that it is men, now women, who will be judge of that now won’t they?

    And when they’re not aggrandizing each other, they are tearing each other down to the ground in epic cat fashion via the trusty ole backhanded compliments, silent treatment, exclusion and covert put downs: “Nice hair, Jessica!….and those boots totally match your outfit!……omg, like, what is that? hahahahaha”.

    This can be confusing for men who tend to say exactly what they mean and are accustomed to eating the consequences in the face from time to time.

  52. earl says:

    “Lots of gorgeous single women in the church”, Is there a word for that level of delusion?

    Delusions of grandeur.

    Besides it doesn’t matter if they are ‘gorgeous’…it’s their attitude that is stinking up their chances.

  53. Jeffrey Williams says:

    My question is “why does she think she’s a pearl of great price?”

    Sure, if the pictures are to be believed, she’s decent looking for her age. But what does her spirit look like? Is she the sort of person who truly reflects Christ? Does talking to her make you feel close to God?

    Frankly, the excerpts of her writing and speaking make her sound arrogant and self-important.

    I know several women of varying ages who truly are pearls of great price. I’ve yet to read anything that would make me think she’s in their class.

  54. Dave says:

    Solomon knew women; he had 1000 of them: 700 wives and 300 mistresses (how he managed them remains a mystery though).
    In the end, his advice was this:

    Proverbs 31:3:-

    Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings.

    Longer version: Do not focus your powers/wealth on a woman; do not share your plans/mission/ways/manner with her who abolish/obliterate from the memory/exterminate/wipe out kings/kingdoms/royalties.

  55. Boxer says:

    Sure, if the pictures are to be believed, she’s decent looking for her age. But what does her spirit look like? Is she the sort of person who truly reflects Christ? Does talking to her make you feel close to God?

    That’s a good point. I have much more respect for an older lady who is known to be modest, submissive to her man, and who has competently raised up children. Bonus points if she went back to school after they were grown, or started a business, to help her man out.

    It’s true that Mrs. Dalrock, Mrs. Deti, Mrs. Scott, and various other faithful wives might not have the sex appeal that Mizz Christian Newscaster can boast, but they get respect on all fronts, and Mizz Christian Newscaster merely looks shallow and spoiled in comparison, with all her kooky demands and outrageous expectations.

  56. Lost Patrol says:

    it’s their attitude that is stinking up their chances.

    That really is the bottom line Earl. In real estate they say the most important part of a property is location, location, location. In a man looking for a good prospect as wife material, the corollary is attitude.

  57. Micah says:

    There are a lot of gorgeous single women in the church, so get the men in here!

    Right, because God created Eve first, and decided it wasn’t good for her to be alone. lol

    Sometimes I think a lot Christians view men as objects for women’s marital gratification in a manner similar to that of viewing women as objects for sexual gratification, for which men are often rebuked.

  58. Vasilli says:

    Hilarious! Keep us posted over the next 10 – 20 years. Ms Wendy will meet her man in the Retirement units or Nursing Home I’m sure. Or she can just get a small dog.

  59. “How come no Christian man ever replies, “Yeah, well I’m a Son of the King. So time to ‘woman up’ and make me a sammich.””

    Because mature adults don’t say “sammich.”

  60. In keeping with the theme of “a pearl of great price” we are distinctly living in an era of an absence of price discovery. The markets, Bitcoin, gold and silver are all being manipulated (IMO) as is the MMV/SMV. Corrections are not allowed and when they finally do come, ALL of those chickens are coming to roost. Wendy Griffith and her 7 million are further evidence of how distorted everything is. In a sane age she would be a grandmother of 8, instead she’s a “rich” joke.

  61. feeriker says:

    In the same interview Griffith complains that Christian men need to man up and get with the times since women like her refuse to be confined to traditional roles:

    So she admits what every man already knows about her: she will be USELESS as a helpmeet, which would be the only reason to wife her up in the first place.

    Yet more proof (as if any more were needed) that women are IDIOTS when it comes to connecting cause and effect.

    Dalrock, you are never going to run out of material with this woman. Wendy Griffith: the gift that keeps on giving.

  62. tsotha says:

    Ugh. I don’t know who they’re trying to fool with this “intimidated” nonsense – men or themselves. When a seven foot tall maniac taps the back of my favorite head against the barroom wall, I’m intimidated.

    I don’t date women like Wendy Griffith because… what’s the point? Is she going to give me children? Is she going to “keep house”? What is she offering besides companionship and sex? I can get a dog for companionship, and how much should I value sexual access to a woman in her 50s?

  63. earl says:

    A successful woman is a woman who shows good helpmate/homemaking/mothering skills. Having a pleasant and submissive attitude helps too…A LOT. That’s what I think most men would agree is a successful woman.

    Wendy is an example of a successful woman in the feminist way of thinking. Just because you can look pretty, have a little fame, give interviews, and sucker people out of their money does not mean you are a successful woman.

  64. feeriker says:

    Well, they need to get over it, because we’re here and we’re waiting! “Man-up” and come and find us. There are a lot of gorgeous single women in the church, so get the men in here!

    Like I said in the previous thread: this behavior is the female equivalent of Vox’s male Gamma, and just as pathetic. No self-respecting, quality man wants anything whatsoever to do with THAT.

  65. feeriker says:

    What is she offering besides companionship and sex?

    Arrogance, attitude, bitchiness, condescension, contentiousness, entitlement, pretentiousness, selfishness, and self-rightrousness, just for starters. And far more of them than either companionship or sex.v

  66. seventiesjason says:

    Now she knows what “manly” is too????

    Jesus didn’t punch evildoers in the mouth. He openly wept for the Jews and the disciples whom He called friends. He told the truth. Everything He did was the will of, or to please the Father. Jesus “hath no form of comeliness that we may be attracted to Him”. The Lord was a carpenter, but we never heard Him once discuss His career, how much money He made, or how good He was. Jesus didn’t waste time with the physical (don’t recall Jesus going to the local gymasium of his day to work out. Nor do we hear about Him talking about lavish feasts (only in reference to The Kingdom, or parables about all being invited.

    No. We see a sorrowful Savior on a Cross who did no wrong. He has been called a “man of sorrows” and He suffered greatly. No manly man today in Christian media would ever last one iota as long as Christ did at the hands of the Romans. No “manly man” that Ms Wendy wants would last five seconds the boldness in beatings that Paul endured.

    This woman wouldn’t know a real Christian man if she met one.

  67. Cane Caldo says:

    @Novaseeker

    Remember, here “manly” means “hot”. What she is saying is that the men in church who are single are not hot enough for her.

    Bingo.

  68. Anon says:

    To Wendy’s credit, she has amassed a personal fortune just talking about her dating life, which the other 99.999% of unmarried old maids would love to do, but can’t.

    Plus, any and all funds she can extract from cuckservatives and manginas should be applauded, as that is the weak leg of the stool, and where destruction should be encouraged.

    That said, I still say that Wendy is not that attractive. The ravages of age may have been less brutal on her, but her face seems very unkind and cold, which is consistent with someone who ruthlessly extracts resources from men much poorer than her.

  69. Anon says:

    You expect her to understand supply and demand? Most of them barely understand cause and effect.

    This meme originated 8 years ago :

    http://www.antifeministtech.info/2010/02/the-spearhead-credentialism-is-not-education/

    “That is obvious from the fact that they fail to grasp basic concepts such as cause and effect and supply and demand. “

  70. Anon says:

    Can someone also tell Ms Griffiths that men are not ”intimidated by strong women.”’

    This is an overused trope and it’s found everywhere.

    This trope is just evidence of female inferiority.

    A ‘strong’ woman is only one who has succeeded in something that is not heavily rigged in favor of women by the government.

    Most loud woman who think they are strong are extremely dependent on massive government intervention in their favor, and their lives would collapse in a heap if government spending were to be cut merely to 1999-2000 levels as a percentage of GDP. It is not like we have to go back to 1913. 2000 will do because the extent of resource misallocation to women was not nearly as severe.

  71. tsotha says:

    To Wendy’s credit, she has amassed a personal fortune just talking about her dating life, which the other 99.999% of unmarried old maids would love to do, but can’t.

    That’s a good point. Most of them also complain endlessly about men but without making a penny.

  72. Dave says:

    Arrogance, attitude, bitchiness, condescension, contentiousness, entitlement, pretentiousness, selfishness, and self-righteousness, just for starters.

    At least she brought something to the table…

  73. Timothy Leif says:

    Men aren’t intimidated by strong women. We’re just not bothered. We know women greatly desire to submit to a man who’s superior to them, which is why we know a “strong” woman will only submit to a much stronger man. The academic in Wendy’s previous anecdote shows this. He wasn’t intimidated by her and went out with her; it just came to a point when he just knew it wasn’t working. And Wendy nailed his balls anyway.

  74. Splashman says:

    There’s a very simple reason she’s not married. She’s a bitch.

  75. Anon says:

    There’s a very simple reason she’s not married. She’s a bitch.

    No. Most cuckservatives would jump at a chance to marry her. Many men are extremely whipped.

    Jim Gay-ratty married a single mother older than him, despite having some fame.
    Megan McArdle’s husband is 9 years younger than her.

    Wendy’s behavior, however appalling, has to be viewed within the context that thousands of blueball cuckservative men have behaved in a way that corroborates and validates her assessment of herself. Cuckservative men still will quite happily spend $500+ on her without so much as a makeout session.

  76. Splashman says:

    @Anon,

    That said, I still say that Wendy is not that attractive. The ravages of age may have been less brutal on her, but her face seems very unkind and cold, which is consistent with someone who ruthlessly extracts resources from men much poorer than her.

    Agreed. Not sure what all the others here see in her. Scrape off the half-inch of makeup and what do you have? Exactly what you’d expect for someone her age. Her only virtue is that her weight is under control. Personally, I’d prefer a nice girl 30 pounds overweight than a slender bitch. Weight can be lost; bitch is forever.

  77. Splashman says:

    @Anon, you misunderstood me. I didn’t mean, “Wendy is still single because men can see she’s a bitch.” I meant, “Wendy is still single because she believes she’s God’s gift to men, and none are good enough to deserve her” — in other words, she’s a bitch.

  78. CSI says:

    What does she mean by “manly”? The usual checklist probably. Tall, muscular build, square jaw, outgoing, confidant. Of course this is the sort of husband every women would like. When she was younger she could have gotten such a man. Maybe she still could, if she could be bothered. But could the majority of her readers get such a husband? Statistically, no. Yet she tells them they are all “pearls of great price”, and not to “settle”.

  79. BillyS says:

    Those who don’t think she has some attractiveness likely haven’t looked at too many women in that age range. She is one of the better looking ones, though that does ignore the attitude part of her character. Too many who would compete with her look far worse however.

  80. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    CSI: What does she mean by “manly”? The usual checklist probably. Tall, muscular build, square jaw, outgoing, confidant.

    You forgot “successful” and “high status.” Perhaps not as important for a woman of 23, but very important for older woman. For a woman of 53, “high status” is a definite a “must have” manly quality.

    And by “successful” and “high status,” that means even more successful and high status as is Wendy. So if Wendy is a $7 million celebrity, this tall, muscular, square-jawed, outgoing, confidant manly man must at least be a $14 million mega-celebrity.

    A pearl of great price cannot settle for a man who’s merely worth the same as Wendy. He must be able to lavish her with greater extravagance than she can afford to lavish on herself.

  81. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Otto Lamp: AAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGG! This type of hyper-pentecostal horse manure is destroying Christianity in America. It’s gotten to when even so called grounded, conservative, fundamentalist denominations are falling for this…####.

    Like I said, this is classic New Age “theology.” They call it “synchronicity.” When seemingly random events (a man, a license plate) “synchronize” in time and space, as a way for The Universe to send a message to someone.

    Here in La La Land (aka Los Angeles), a women once asked me if I knew anything about numerology. She’d been noticing many “elevens” wherever she went, and she wondered what it meant.

  82. Splashman says:

    @BillyS, she’s been in the media business a long time, so she knows how to use makeup and clothes to maximum effectiveness — i.e., to disguise what she really looks like.

    Any average looker can be a supermodel with enough work. Here’s a video example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYhCn0jf46U

    I’m not saying Wendy’s a dog; I’m just saying that like many (most?) women, she’s not what she seems, and thus doesn’t deserve all the compliments she’s been getting around here.

  83. Anon says:

    Any average looker can be a supermodel with enough work. Here’s a video example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYhCn0jf46U

    Whoa! That is incredible. The original girl’s face is just a 6 even if she didn’t have zits. With zits she is a 4.

    Yet, make-up and photoshop (all invented by men, of course), made her face a 9.

    This is another reason VR Sex will make the average man completely uninterested in the bottom 95% of women. Some might say that this is bad, but given what modern women are, this is a necessary corrective step.

  84. Dota says:

    Wendy’s books have been featured on the 700 club? The same 700 club that’s been referred to as the ‘christian Taliban? ‘

    Just goes to show you that to libtards, anyone to the right of Stalin is automatically a Nazi or religious fundamentalist.

  85. patriarchal landmine says:

    “wo-man”
    from the olde english word meaning “failed man” or “defective man.”

    how dare men not step up and save women from their own ineptitude at life.

  86. pariah says:

    @ Son of Liberty
    “As prophesied in Revelation, the 7th and final church age, Laodicea, “Lukewarm” age of Christianity is exactly what is going on today.”

    The text doesn’t say anything about the seven churches being seven ages. That’s a theory which (as far as I know) came from the heretic William Branham.

    Right from the start of Christianity there have been false apostles, false prophets, false teachers, and false brethren, etc. The true Church has always had to contend with those who are Christian in name only.

  87. Opus says:

    I awoke this morning with two thoughts in my head, which I will now generously share with y’all.

    1. Wendy Griffith is entirely an American phenomenon. Much as I loath Tony Blair (British Traitor) he was right about one thing; that mentioning one is a Christian is in England regarded as cringe-worthy. That was more or less how he put it. Adding that one is more or less a virgin does not improve the position.

    2. Apropos Anon 11.09 and its link: I was running through in my head the female lawyers I had had the misfortune to cross (legally speaking) and I could not think of one who I found to be less than entirely and utterly useless band usually with Egos the size of Mount Rushmore. Men have their faults, god knows, but women lawyers put jaw-dropping incompetence into a World Series of its own.

  88. infowarrior1 says:

    @Mark
    ”Solomon knew women; he had 1000 of them: 700 wives and 300 mistresses (how he managed them remains a mystery though).”

    He didn’t but his Eunuchs did and all the problems thereof(historical subverters and destroyers of Kingdoms). Which goes to show another downside to polygamy on that scale.

    Even Polygamists should be inclined to reduce the quantity of wives whilst increasing their quality if they had any sense. The closer to the Edenic standard the better.

    Dunbar’s number is at maximum 150. A person can only know 150 people.

  89. john03063 says:

    I left my church (and they lost my $500 per month support checks) the day the pastor had words with me about a comment I made to a woman who was wearing a low cut, slinky outfit that was more suited for a nightclub than a church. I simply said that she looked awesome. She complained that I was harassing her. I told the pastor what I said to her, and that maybe he should advise her to dress a little more sensibly for church. You can guess where that advice went.

    When I told him that I was leaving, he actually had the nerve to ask me if I would still “support the ministry” (I guess my monthly donation was one of the larger ones). I was blown away by the size of this guy’s balls, but I figured I was safe in responding, “I’ll come back and continue supporting this church once you begin supporting men”.

    That was 5 or 6 years ago. I’m still waiting…….

  90. earlthomas786 says:

    What does she mean by “manly”? The usual checklist probably. Tall, muscular build, square jaw, outgoing, confidant. Of course this is the sort of husband every women would like. When she was younger she could have gotten such a man.

    I’m not so sure about that. She is in a field where her chances of meeting that type of man should be better than the average woman. Let’s consider she basically had the same attitude at 23 or 33 as she does now, sure she was much better looking then but tall, muscular, confident man knows he could get a better woman than her. Even the one guy she thought was going to pull the trigger finally got out when he figured out her attitude. Her only options would be a man who basically worships her (but she wouldn’t consider that manly) or where she is now.

    This is my problem with women who have checklists…it’s fine if you have an idea or standards in what type of man you want, but what do you bring to the table to attract that man. Does she have an attractive attitude? Wendy has shown she doesn’t.

  91. BillyS says:

    Infowarrior,

    Even Polygamists should be inclined to reduce the quantity of wives whilst increasing their quality if they had any sense. The closer to the Edenic standard the better.

    Most here who promote it do so as a way to rein in a disobedient wife, as if that would really work well.

  92. BillyS says:

    Earl,

    That is true. Standards are good, but many woman don’t face the fact that the standards they have are far different than reality. Even the Christian ones, like the younger blonde with the YouTube videos someone posted in another thread, play a bait and switch game. They push the idea that women shouldn’t lower their standards and that God will give them their hearts desire, with very little mention of the need for women to adjust to God’s reality.

    Their standards must be given from God right? The only change women need to make is to hold men even more accountable! Hold more to unrealistic standards! (Though they leave out the unrealistic part.)

  93. Scott says:

    JDs description of the situation sounds familiar to me.

    During the period between my marriages, quite a number of girls I dated were regular church attenders while I was pretty marginally involved in any kind of faith life during that same timeframe.

    I had basically a totally secular dating life with these women during the week and they would go to church on Sundays with or without me. I had no fear that some church guy was going to steal them out from under me.

  94. Jason says:

    In the end….no Christian man will ever be “good enough” for her. Something will always be missing. The “spark” the money, the provider-status, the career, the looks, the “attitude”, his height, his hair color, his teeth won’t be perfect………..it will always be something that wasn’t right.

    I know a guy at the one men’s fellowship I attend at the large AG church. Cool guy. Life long Christian. Life long single. A couple of dates, but admits he has not had one since the late 1990’s. He’s 62

    His problem? He is convinced that “God is preparing the perfect wife for him” and “its on His time”

    The church feeds this into him, and he still spits it out. He’s gonna be a guy at 80 in a nursing hospital, bedridden still convinced that “God’s gonna give him a wife” and it will be “anytime now”

    The guy is average looking for his age. He has an okay job. Had an interesting life (mission trips to Africa in the 1980’s….speaks French fluently…….lived in different parts of the USA….met some cool people along the way). He has clean fingernails. No bad breath. average height. I saw a picture of him back when he was 35. Average looking dude. No criminal record. Never got into drugs……variety of interests (collects meteorites of all things! Showed me a few)

    Men like him though would rather still hold on to a “hope” than accept a painful truth about women and marriage. God doesn’t plan it. God doesn’t pre-select your wife from birth. God doesn’t put your wife in front of you. Marriage HONORS God, but He doesn’t plan it, prepare it, or bake it, or take your ideas, then it blesses it, and gives it back to you. He mentioned to me that I am single because I don’t have “game” (LOL) and not the right attitude!

    Last night at this fellowship I mentioned Ms. Wendy Griffith to him…..and he fell right back into what he has been trained to say “men just don’t want to step up” and “if God wanted me to be with her, well…..He would have put her in my path”

    I just smiled out of sympathy…..empathy???????

  95. Poetentiate says:

    Perhaps she should try out a few Nuclear Rejections to see how she likes them and how fast she bounces back.

  96. Heidi says:

    OT: Mom fakes life-threatening illnesses in child, dad tries to protest and is denied visitation (but still has to pay child support); after 13 completely unnecessary surgeries and numerous medical treatments, the mother is finally arrested and the child placed in foster care.

    http://www.khou.com/news/local/texas/father-fights-for-son-after-mothers-arrest/499098749

  97. Gunner Q says:

    john03063 @ 6:45 am:
    “I’ll come back and continue supporting this church once you begin supporting men”.

    Nicely done!

  98. MarcusD says:

    constrainedlocus says:
    December 12, 2017 at 3:55 pm

    “Literally, dude! Get out there! Man Up! And date/marry these women before it’s too late!”

    I mean, seriously, among women today age 17 to 29 there is some prolific carousel riding going on. They are setting records.

    Reading your comment, I was reminded of Vox Day’s post from yesterday, where he provides the following advice:

    I’ve never run the odds, but I would estimate that if you’re on a first marriage to a woman of the same race and religion with an average number of sex partners, your odds of marital success are probably on the order of 85 percent. (http://archive.is/dL84o)

    And this, a few days prior:

    A man of the West takes risks. A man of the Wests molds his wife and his children. A man of the West is willing to fight for his honor, his family, and his civilization. Success is not guaranteed. But then, when, in the entire history of Man, has it ever been guaranteed? For millennia, young men of honor have fought and died for what they believe. (http://archive.is/jAgEv)

    Although he does say “I am not saying ‘wife up those sluts’,” he actually is advising that, given his later post. (Of course, premarital n > 0 is the definition; Vox is definitely telling the truth when he says he’s never run the odds, as he is apparently unfamiliar with what the research on the subject actually says – i.e. it certainly is not an 85% chance of success…)

    Anyhow, I must admit that Vox’s “Save Western civ – Marry a slut” viewpoint is rather unfortunate, almost as much as his willingness to volunteer risk on behalf of other men.

  99. Embracing Reality says:

    If any significant number of men in the west refused to marry and it became publicly known the reason why was the corruption in the family courts things might begin to change. Women want commitment from men eventually but if men refuse marriage until laws change women may perceive that as a loss to women. If the Laws change it will be because that’s what women want. Regardless of the law marriage to a slut is a poor arrangement for a man.

  100. Gunner Q says:

    MarcusD @ 10:14 am:
    “Anyhow, I must admit that Vox’s “Save Western civ – Marry a slut” viewpoint is rather unfortunate, almost as much as his willingness to volunteer risk on behalf of other men.”

    Matriarchy is rule by Alpha men, not rule by women. Women can rebel but they can’t survive on their own so given the chance, they support the men they’re most attracted to. You can see this behavior from the Middle East to the ghetto. VD is excellent at defeating Social Justice but we’d still have a matriarchy if he was calling the shots because he has trouble seeing lesser men as equal in status to himself.

    Unsexy men can’t catch a break, except within Christianity.

  101. @Gunner Q, when you make sexual status your God and Savior it is going to drive out any sense of decency you have. Bow to the vagimony (and submit to those it crowns). It’s Mark Driscoll with a red-pill face AMOGing his way along openly and mocking “lesser” men.

  102. he has trouble seeing lesser men as equal in status to himself.

    How am I going to get that coffee out of my keyboard?

  103. Casey says:

    Whoever attached that link to the picture taken of Griffith off camera……..thank you.

    She is showing the weathering of her 53 years.

    Griffith has simply maintained her money-maker by stating thin, which in and of itself is a rarity these days….which raises her SMV (not necessarily MMV).

    Some time ago, I began to notice guys who were 6’s or 7’s walking hand in hand with women who were 2’s or 3’s.

    We can argue upon the gradient; but the delta would remain the same.
    Men dating down a full 4 points.

    Then it struck me; these fat, unattractive women were 5’s or 6’s in todays world. They represented the average of womankind in today’s world.

    It’s the Bell ‘Curve’ (or ‘Blob’ in this case) applied in a practical setting. When two-thirds of women are 30-40 lbs overweight – then they clearly represent the mid-point on a Bell Curve.

    So men can either date a morbidly obese woman, abstain from dating, become a PUA, import from abroad.
    OR
    Pick up a dozen donuts and pack on the fat until morbidly obese men are also the mid-point.
    You know- just to keep things ‘equitable’.

  104. honeycomb says:

    I’ve never been married and I’m in my 40’s. There are a lot of families present, but it seems like the men come only after they’re married. The few guys that are there usually aren’t the “manly” men that I know I’m looking for. I think there is a lack of “real” men in the church.

    [Churches] have singles outreaches for the 20-something crowd and early 30’s, but they don’t have anything for those over 40. But, even if they did, the men just aren’t there! But, thank God that there are some ways to connect online. The men are out there, as the statistics show. But, finding them, that’s the issue.

    I think there is a lack of “real” men WOMEN in the church.

    Example below ..
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/13/texas-middle-school-teacher-31-accused-sex-with-boy-high-school-student-in-church-group.html

  105. @honeycomb, wow the crazy eyes.

  106. honeycomb says:

    Once again the Men are messing up Feminists plans to have it all.

  107. @MarcusD
    Yeah, I read Vox’s site, but I just can’t take such romantic attitudes toward marriage seriously anymore.
    Not now. Not while 75% of them are detonated by the loving wife.
    Shaming men who are cautious, skeptical and act in their own self-interest as weak, selfish and non-men is just not going to work.

    “A man of the West takes risks.”
    Yes, as long as he foresees some semblance of commensurate rewards for his risk taking and investment.

    “A man of the Wests molds his wife and his children.”
    In 1855 or 1955, yes. In 2017, this is financial, physical and mental abuse – domestic violence.

    “A man of the West is willing to fight for his honor, his family, and his civilization.”
    Against whom? The all powerful state? Even the cowboy with two bandoleers, double-holster and two Sam Colts inventions at his hip was no match for the sheriff, his deputees and regulators and the U.S. Calvary.

    “Success is not guaranteed. But then, when, in the entire history of Man, has it ever been guaranteed?”
    Men are not looking for a guarantee. Men are looking for purpose, love, tenderness and affection.

    “For millennia, young men of honor have fought and died for what they believe.”
    So what? Men fight enemies. Women are supposed to be our complements. Our first mates.
    I think men are tired of fighting for ideas from a society that hates them.

    The truth Vox and almost nobody else wants to admit is that most husbands today would divorce their wives yesterday if they could. The prohibitive termination clauses of western marriage is what keeps men rowing the boats.

  108. honeycomb says:

    GiL ..

    accused by the Williamson County Sheriff’s Office of engaging in an illicit sexual relationship with a minor

    Because they have changed the definition of RAPE .. women can not be charged or convicted of rape (e.g. unless she penetrates him) normally.

    So, when you hear that MEN are the rapists’ by th wimminz ™ .. they are technically correct even though th wimminz ™ are doing most of the sexual abusing.

    They always play games with words. She should be charged with RAPE.

  109. Boxer says:

    So men can either date a morbidly obese woman, abstain from dating, become a PUA, import from abroad.
    OR
    Pick up a dozen donuts and pack on the fat until morbidly obese men are also the mid-point.
    You know- just to keep things ‘equitable’.

    If you porked out until you were as fat as the wimminz, you’d only be ruining your health. You wouldn’t be much less desirable to them. Wimminz want to know that your dick works, and that you have some money to spend on them. Christian wimminz, apparently (I learned this here, and believe what you guys so consistently spout) want to additionally claim that they have a man, any man, who is looking after them, and who gave them a lavish wedding, and who will continue to shell out the dollaz after the church-sanctioned divorce.

    What you look like is secondary, and almost irrelevant. Go down to any nightclub and look at the sight of the men that wimminz leave with.

    Hell, if you were morbidly obese, you might actually score more wimminz than you do now. Wimminz do love a weak man, who they can control and manipulate, and nothing says weakness like a 50 inch waist.

  110. Random Angeleno says:

    She looks good … for 53.

    The attitude … not so much. “Michael” figured that out.

    I’ve read those Vox Day posts re MGTOW. He does have a salient point about fear. F Everything And Run. Yes, men have got to get back up, got to come back from getting “zeroed out” as Rollo puts it. But Vox’s advice amounts to “marry those sluts and mold them”, given the demographics we’re dealing with. Many men have decided that’s not the hill they’re willing to die on. For such impertinence on his blog, they’re called cowards. Or worse.

    There are ways to cut divorce risk. But even what’s left is still bad. Some posters at Catholic Answers have cheered the fact that 28% divorce rate among Mass-attending Catholics is much lower than the overall rate. I say that’s still unacceptably high. Can the risk be cut further? Sure, be in the lower upper class or better, live in flyover country, wife has low N, wife’s parents are still together, etc. Those of us who don’t fit those demographics may be SOL.

  111. gunner451 says:

    I dated several women in a large church group back in the 90’s. My impression was that it was not much different than a night club but with more drama. I was blue pill to the max back then but even with that handicap I realized that this was a dead end in finding a wife. Discouraged me so much that I went out and started dating in the secular world (and paid for it and am still paying for it)

    I would never go out with Wendy for the simple reason that her worldly success has swelled her head to a point of being impossible to form any sort of bond with her. This whole mime of men being intimated by successful women is more easily explained as a natural aversion to women making more money than them as they know in their gut that the woman will never respect them because of that and more than anything that lack of respect is the thing that kills sexual/romantic interest in women.

    My advice to young men is not to marry as there is no benefit to it in todays family law hell hole. The risks are not worth it and really from a tax perspective it makes more sense to stay unmarried, even with having children. Also it forces her to continue working which is always one of the problems as once married there is no way to force her to keep on working and she knows she has you be the short hairs legally.

  112. MarcusD says:

    But Vox’s advice amounts to “marry those sluts and mold them”

    Which is, frankly, delusional. As I mentioned above, he is volunteering other men’s lives for his experiment (how courageous is it to vicariously take risk?). What the research on the topic has found is that there is a genetic underpinning for promiscuity. Those genetic underpinnings also correlate with other undesirable or antisocial behaviors. If you’re interested in a stable marriage, a good first step would be to ignore Vox Day’s claim.

  113. feeriker says:

    The truth Vox and almost nobody else wants to admit is that most husbands today would divorce their wives yesterday if they could.

    When Ted Beale, er, “Vox Day” moves his ass back to the U.S. and starts walking his own talk, then -MAYBE- I’ll start taking him seriously. Until that happens he’s just another Sigma loudmouth who needs to STFU.

  114. earlthomas786 says:

    ‘he has trouble seeing lesser men as equal in status to himself.’

    Lol. When you are the sigma all you see is gammas. Just ask him.

  115. earlthomas786 says:

    ‘Some posters at Catholic Answers have cheered the fact that 28% divorce rate among Mass-attending Catholics is much lower than the overall rate. I say that’s still unacceptably high.’

    It should be 5% or less.

  116. feeriker says:

    [The Catholic divorce rate] should be 5% or less.

    The Christian divorce rate, for any denomination, should be very close to zero percent.

  117. Anonymous Reader says:

    Some posters at Catholic Answers have cheered the fact that 28% divorce rate among Mass-attending Catholics is much lower than the overall rate.

    Basic probability : P(divorce=0.28)*P(woman files=0.7) = risk to Mass-attending Catholic man = 0.196 we can round that to 20%. This is better than the average risk but it still is 1 in 5.

    If I lined up the women of CA and offered them a choice of 5 different cars to drive for the rest of their lives, mentioning that one of the cars has a hidden defect that will cause it to have a serious “put you into Intensive Care” accident at some point, how many would then make a choice of vehicles? Yet they demand men do exactly that. Because that’s how women are. White Knights are de facto women when it comes to the idea of “Hey, you men! You should get out there and take risks that I don’t!”. Serious men don’t urge other men to engage in meaningless self-damage.

    All that said, churchgoing men are obliged to marry or remain celibate in theory. So marry carefully. Vetting matters. Dalrock’s questions for a possible wife are still very good. Game [*] matters, and lately I’ve become convinced that maintaining a high level of T matters. It is a cliche’ in the androsphere, but “do you even lift?” is a legit question.

    [*] Or for those with delicate sensibilities that are easily upset by the earthy, carnal reality of women, “leadership” or “headship” matters. However you wish to label it, if a man is not actively leading his wife, he is passively following her. The notion of “equals” is feminist claptrap that requires a faith in Ye Olde Blanke Slate that grows every day.

  118. I’m wondering how many here have heard of “Protestant Work Ethic” wherein the Dutch and other Calvinists worked themselves to the bone to prove that they were/are the elect. I suspect in many of these hyper AMOGers what we are seeing is “Gamma Status Ethic”. See, I’m not a “secret king” because I’m a real king (ROAR)! Trying hard to signal that there are ZFG’s must be exhausting. But that’s what the wimminz want, so dance you monkees.

  119. Scott says:

    AR-

    I’ve become convinced that maintaining a high level of T matters. It is a cliche’ in the androsphere, but “do you even lift?” is a legit question.

    At the risk of sounding cocky (and I hope I have a little bit more credibility than that) I would like to confirm this at least as an N of 1.

    In my post about supplements, I mentioned D-Aspartic Acid for men over 30. It’s very expensive but I cycle it when I am on a program (like I am right now).

    Mychael has been very open about how it effects my entire “frame,” I guess we would call it here. She says that the confidence/aggression factor is quite noticeable and she says it makes her more, lets say “concerned” about me when I am at work and likely to be around younger women. If I go TDY (army speak for business trip) she actually asks me to stop taking it. Its THAT noticeable (again, to her).

    I only notice the stuff I care about (vascularity, energy, better sleep, etc) but there’s a little confirmation from one couple, for whatever that’s worth.

  120. Scott says:

    In other words she gets more clingy when T is up.

  121. craig says:

    I gave up on Vox’s blog as its personality-cult flavor became impossible to ignore. All disagreement with the Dear Leader is met with a volley of middle-school insults (‘midwit’, ‘gamma’, ‘faggot’, ‘pussy’, etc.) from Vox and his fans. Not sure if Gunner Q is right that he has made sexual status into his God, or if it’s instead the intellectual ‘system’ (i.e. his ‘socio-sexual’ hierarchy) which he defends as fiercely as any crazed Calvinist ever defended double predestination or (heretic) Fr. James Martin defends sodomy for Christians. But in the end Vox’s shtick always reduces to ‘Lord, I thank thee that I am not like lesser men’.

  122. Oscar says:

    @ Random Angeleno says:
    December 13, 2017 at 11:56 am

    “Some posters at Catholic Answers have cheered the fact that 28% divorce rate among Mass-attending Catholics is much lower than the overall rate. I say that’s still unacceptably high.”

    As others have pointed out, it’s worse than that, because there exists an abundance of miserable marriages, which means that many of the marriages that don’t end in divorce stay together only because “it’s cheaper to keep her”. We don’t know how many, but we also know the number is greater than zero.

    Think of all the men who work overtime, volunteer for business trips, or spend hours at the sports bar after work every day because they’re married to contentious women. What advice does Vox Day have for those men?

    No one gets everything right, and we all have blind spots. Vox Day is no exception. By definition, we can’t see our own blind spots. He can’t see that he’s dishing out advice that would be disastrous for most of his readers.

  123. thedeti says:

    honeycomb:

    Below is a link to another article about the texas teacher arrested for an alleged affair with a high school boy. The link contains a photo of the woman with her husband.

    I’ll let you all draw your own conclusions.

    http://www.empireboobookitty.com/2017/12/nicole-marie-faires-andrews-husband.html

  124. Farm Boy says:

    Perhaps Ms. Griffith just needs a bad boy. Then we all could go home

  125. Oscar says:

    @ deti

    Pink tank top. That’s definitely…. something….

  126. earlthomas786 says:

    The Christian divorce rate, for any denomination, should be very close to zero percent.

    If they would quit taking birth control it would help.

    The studies I’ve seen (and you can take it with a grain of salt if you will)…those couples that practice natural family planning on top of going to Mass/church services reguarly have divorce rates somewhere between 2-5%.

    I don’t know if some/most of those couples in the 28% divorce stat take BC or not…but I wouldn’t doubt some do.

  127. 50 yo Nicole Kidman gets naked in new movie. Makes Wendy Griffith look like week-old dog poop.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5174827/Nicole-Kidman-strips-steamy-scenes-Colin-Farrell.html

  128. earlthomas786 says:

    I’ll let you all draw your own conclusions.

    Gay? Or very emasculated.

  129. Anonymous Reader says:

    thedeti
    Below is a link to another article about the texas teacher arrested for an alleged affair with a high school boy. The link contains a photo of the woman with her husband.

    Any children? I’m thinking….not.
    That woman was “counselling” youth at her father-in-law’s church, so what does he look like?

  130. White Guy says:

    Deti, DANG if that wasn’t a ‘sham’ marriage I don’t know what is, did he even kiss the bride?

  131. earlthomas786 says:

    In other words she gets more clingy when T is up.

    Perhaps she’s ovulating. Just saying.

    Unless this is a consistent pattern.

  132. thedeti says:

    Ky Head:

    Meh. Never much cared for Nicole Kidman. Too skinny, too pale.

  133. honeycomb says:

    theDeti .. re: conclusion

    Well .. my conclusion is .. FAG radar set Def-Con 1 .. end of conclusion.

    Thanks for the link.

  134. earlthomas786 says:

    50 yo Nicole Kidman gets naked in new movie.

    She really needs to quit doing that.

  135. thedeti says:

    It never fails on these “hot for teacher”/female teacher sleeping with underage male student reportings.

    Every one of these stories MUST include a photo of the teacher involved. It’s basically pandering to men. Because when they read these stories, everyone wants to know “what does she look like” and “is she f***able?”

    And in the case of the married ones (and most of them are married), these women are almost always married to either (1) obviously effeminate men; or (2) white knight/tradcons who proclaim their wives’ innocence and almost celebrate their wives’ cucking them in public.

    A hundred years ago, a woman who did this would be dead. And so would the kid she did it with. And so would anyone who helped facilitate it.

  136. Oscar says:

    @ KH

    It’s like selling the goods on clearance before they expire.

    @ deti

    I’m with you.

  137. thedeti says:

    Women want to see the pics of the women who did this so they can say to themselves “I’d totally never do that wink wink nudge nudge (butonlyifthekidwashawtandtoobadcantseeapicofhimbetheishawtorhasahugedick)” and “I’m hotter than she is” and “what a skank ho”

  138. earlthomas786 says:

    And in the case of the married ones (and most of them are married), these women are almost always married to either (1) obviously effeminate men; or (2) white knight/tradcons who proclaim their wives’ innocence and almost celebrate their wives’ cucking them in public.

    They are the perfect type of husband for the feminist or the wife who still wants to continue her slut ways.

  139. Anonymous Reader says:

    Earl
    If they would quit taking birth control it would help.

    The studies I’ve seen (and you can take it with a grain of salt if you will)…those couples that practice natural family planning on top of going to Mass/church services reguarly have divorce rates somewhere between 2-5%.

    1. Natural family planning is birth control. Be more precise in your language and you will communicate better.

    2. Studies you have seen where, done by whom? Links would help.

  140. Scott says:

    Perhaps she’s ovulating. Just saying.

    Heh. She’s 8 months pregnant and it’s going on as we speak.

  141. earlthomas786 says:

    ‘1. Natural family planning is birth control. Be more precise in your language and you will communicate better. ‘

    Ugh…this again.

    Fine…those who don’t take artifical birth control. Or those who chart how the woman’s natural cycle goes and know the infertile times.

    2.

    http://sites.nd.edu/thecc/2012/08/29/nfp-and-divorce-rates-more-research-needed/

    Now this site legitimately questions the 3% figure (provided in their research)…because it doesn’t take into account other things like strong religious faith. That’s why I think you need the two to go together.

  142. earlthomas786 says:

    Heh. She’s 8 months pregnant and it’s going on as we speak.

    That’s why I asked…if it’s still happening while she’s pregnant, then perhaps.

    I just don’t know if women can somehow ‘sense’ higher T in men…they only sense what’s going on in them. They have intitution but I’m not sure it is that good.

  143. earlthomas786 says:

    Besides as long as you aren’t a Buzzfeed writer…you should always have like 17 times more T than any woman.

  144. White Guy says:

    Earl, this is where your ignorance is showing (and no offense is implied), I’ve noticed the exact same thing with my wife, and if I’m ‘I’ve got my head on swivel’, I can see it with other women (like at the grocery store) seem to notice my higher T levels (I’m on replacement T right now). Wife will get clingy/crazy/mate guard when my T levels were dripping out of my pores.

    Scott, I know what you mean with Frame as well, my brain starting working well and the lots of the world turns into background noise.

    I had to reduce my lifting by 90%, tore my peck on November 1st (dropped 250lbs on my chest!) not how one wants to start the beginning of a strength cycle. grrr

  145. thedeti says:

    Women might not be able to sense more T in men; but they do sense the masculinity in that man that the T produces. Take for example the cucked husband in the photo I posted the link to. Does he appear to be brimming with T? I’d make a bet there’s a T deficit there. And if I can see that, think how much more easily any run of the mill woman can see it.

  146. Oscar says:

    @ White Guy

    That’s why you should always use safety spotter arms when bench pressing.

    http://snowgoosechronicles.blogspot.com/2017/12/garage-gym-part-3-rack.html?m=1

  147. Anonymous Reader says:

    Earl
    Ugh…this again.

    Accuracy in writing matters.

    Fine…those who don’t take artifical birth control.

    Closer. What you mean is “hormonal contraception”. There are non-hormonal contraceptive methods. It’s the progesterone / estrogen being added to the woman’s bloodstream that is an issue, and by just waving your hands and saying “birth control” you cloud the issue & don’t communicate.

    Or those who chart how the woman’s natural cycle goes and know the infertile times.

    It’s more complicated than that, but if you just write “Natural Family Planning” NFP your meaning will be clear.

    Thanks for the link, that helps.

  148. @thedeti I feel that way about most redheads (too pale), but she was in my top three for at least 15 years.

  149. BillyS says:

    MarcusD,

    Anyhow, I must admit that Vox’s “Save Western civ – Marry a slut” viewpoint is rather unfortunate, almost as much as his willingness to volunteer risk on behalf of other men.

    Can you provide a quote/link for that? I suspect not. I have never heard him say that. Marriage is very dangerous, but civilization will end if everyone did abandon it completely. I can understand why some do, but claiming a call to seek a way to make things work is telling men to marry sluts is a very false accusation.

    You may not want to marry, fine, don’t. But admit that you are supporting the destruction of the human race if you are actively pushing that.

  150. BillyS says:

    I should have posted slower. You admit he says that is explicitly not what he was saying, yet you still make the charge. That is a sign of idiocy, not sound reasoning.

  151. White Guy says:

    Oscar, my ego got the better of me.
    It was the last rep of the last set (4×5@250lbs) and I was feeling strong but my form got bad and instead of resetting I tried to ‘push’ through, I know foolish. Weight came down alright, touched my chest and on the lift off I got it about 4 inches and something ‘popped’ in my right peck and dropped the weight. Thankfully there were a couple of regulars in there who got the weight off of me.

    Going to see a Ortho next week to see if I tore a tendon or if it was just a muscle belly tear. (I’ve been working with a Physical Therapist with the Starting Strength program to help me recover.)

  152. earlthomas786 says:

    Women might not be able to sense more T in men; but they do sense the masculinity in that man that the T produces.

    That’s more what I was getting at.

  153. Anonymous Reader says:

    Earl
    I just don’t know if women can somehow ‘sense’ higher T in men…

    T levels affect the voice, the way we move, and how we smell. All of these subcommunications matter.

  154. BillyS says:

    Constrainedlocus,

    Yeah, I read Vox’s site, but I just can’t take such romantic attitudes toward marriage seriously anymore.

    I would ask for quotes on this charge as well. Vox has his blindspots, but maintaining the human race and western civilization is not it. Huge risk, but many still make it work in spite of the risks. Some want to run away and go into one form or another of hedonism, but that is not a choice a Christian is allowed. Stay single and devote yourself to the Lord’s work, that is perfectly valid, but crying about things and doing nothing is foolish.

    I find him a bit naive and harsh at times, but the idea that we should just all hide, all while taking advantage of the system, is not too bright either.

    The truth Vox and almost nobody else wants to admit is that most husbands today would divorce their wives yesterday if they could. The prohibitive termination clauses of western marriage is what keeps men rowing the boats.

    Provide evidence of this as well. My exwife had big flaws, but she was still my wife. I had no desire to divorce. Almost no older men whose wives divorce them would either commit suicide or fight serious depression if your point was true. Yet that is not what we see.

    Some men are certainly married to women they are not happy with, but many would still prefer that to being completely on their own, even without ongoing payments, etc.

  155. @ Scott, 2 questions for you if you don’t mind: what kind of lifting regimen are you on when you use D-Aspartic Acid and roughly how old are you?

  156. MarcusD says:

    @BillyS

    I have never heard him say that.
    You admit he says that is explicitly not what he was saying, yet you still make the charge.

    He is encouraging it. The links are right next to the quotes.

    civilization will end if everyone did abandon it completely

    Yes, let us do all within our power to preserve the current order.

    but claiming a call to seek a way to make things work is telling men to marry sluts

    Do you have an alternate interpretation of what he’s written? Is he saying that men should only marry virgins (lest they serve as test cases for social science research)? Regardless, he is, in my estimation, knowingly misleading unmarried men. (I say “knowingly” because he frequently reminds his audience about how smart and well-read he is, so I think it is a valid assumption.)

    You may not want to marry, fine, don’t.

    As I’ve written here before, going back years, I only intend to marry a virgin. (I understand, of course, that in today’s world such a requirement may be interpreted as ‘not wanting to marry.’)

  157. BillyS says:

    It may be personal preference, but I was not impress by Kidman in those pictures.

    Scott,

    Trying that stuff. Supplements are an easy way to spend a lot of money, but I will see if it seems to have an input for me.

  158. earlthomas786 says:

    I feel that way about most redheads (too pale), but she was in my top three for at least 15 years.

    She doesn’t look like that anymore, though.

  159. BillyS says:

    MarcusD,

    Yes, let us do all within our power to preserve the current order.

    You are guilty of as much binary thinking as any Vox has. I have no desire to support the current system and I will be doing all I can to oppose it, but that doesn’t equate to withdrawing for my own pleasure.

    Do you have an alternate interpretation of what he’s written?

    I try to let everyone speak for themselves. I think he is very naive and probably thinks most men can really control things they cannot, but that doesn’t negate his point.

    I have been openly called “dishonest” there, so I generally avoid replying in the discussions. I do agree with many of the points he makes, in spite of the blinders he has on that he does not see.

    As I’ve written here before, going back years, I only intend to marry a virgin. (I understand, of course, that in today’s world such a requirement may be interpreted as ‘not wanting to marry.’)

    I married a virgin and it didn’t keep me from being divorced almost 30 years later, so you should avoid even that if you want to follow your own advice. I have absolutely no problem with being very cautious and even pursuing your goal. It is almost certainly out of my reach (if I ever do remarry, something I doubt will happen due to lack of a virtuous candidate), but I will not support the run for the hills idea either. (As a few of us have debated earlier.)

    The problem is not recommending extreme caution and even that some avoid marriage, but claiming someone is really saying “man up and marry those sluts” just because they disagree is wrong as well.

    I don’t know what I would recommend today to a young man, but I hope to write and possibly develop some teaching on that in the future. (I wish I could get some of Joseph of Jackson’s stuff now.)

  160. Oscar says:

    @ White Guy

    “… my ego got the better of me.”

    Happens to the best of us. I wish you a full, speedy recovery.

  161. thedeti says:

    Marcus, Billy:

    It wasn’t so much as “Save Western Civ – Marry a Slut” as it was (paraphrasing):

    “Save Western Civ – marry a woman with N under 15, then work to mold her into the wife you need her to be and if you can’t do that you’re weak and pathetic, and if you won’t do that, you’re not doing your duty.”

    It all comes down to risk management and the rewards you’re able to get from the risks you assume. Yes, a man can find a woman to marry who’s a relatively good risk. It’s possible. But there are very few such women for whom the risks are worth it, it takes a long time to find them and vet them, and it takes a lifetime of work to keep them.

    It takes a man’s own personal growth and development too. The fact that you finished college, have a job, an apartment and a car does NOT mean you’re ready to marry. It just means you are minimally self-sufficient and can do the bare minimum required for adulting. It means you can feed yourself, obey laws, do minimally meaningful work someone is willing to pay you a living wage for, and not leech off your parents anymore.

    It also does not mean you’re ready for any kind of sexual relationship either. You also need a thorough working knowledge of male and female nature, how sexual attraction works, and just how much power women have in society now. You need the balls to make the rules for the relationship, to build your life the way you want it and then have her step into that established life. And you need the balls to say “no” and to require her to follow the rules and boundaries you set out, to enforce the boundaries. And you need to have the balls to walk away when she (1) won’t respect the boundaries; (2) isn’t adding value to your life; or (3) won’t give you what you want and need from the relationship.

    Because you are going to have to do all of it yourself. All of society is arrayed against you. Government, church, employers, culture – all are egging her on to sleep with other men, to not commit to you, to not marry, to cheat on you and to divorce rape you. No one is going to help you – not even your own parents and siblings, not even your pastor, priest or rabbi. You are all alone in this fight. And you are going to need the inner strength to do it all yourself.

    And that’s a tall, tall order for most men. Most men aren’t anywhere near that level of personal development when they marry. I know I wasn’t.

    And I personally have been able to preserve my own marriage (so far). But it has been at enormous cost to everyone involved. Most people are unwilling and unable to pay that cost. That cost could have been avoided or minimized with better vetting and better boundary-setting at the outset rather than having to do it 15 years in, among other things.

    So, Vox’ statements on this issue assume men who are willing and able to be and do all those things in those fourth and fifth paragraphs up there. It assumes men who are at a stage of personal development and security in themselves that they’re ready to vet women hard, lay down the boundaries, enforce them hard, and walk away when you can’t or don’t get what you want and need. And a huge number of men don’t have what that takes, and they don’t because it’s never been cultivated in them, and most of them have decided it’s not worth cultivating.

  162. earlthomas786 says:

    T levels affect the voice, the way we move, and how we smell. All of these subcommunications matter.

    Sure…however I think if you base how high your T is off women’s reactions that’s not necessarily a good way to indicate it. She’s reacting based off what she knows internally…and that has more to do with the ovulation cycle. And that doesn’t take into account how many women are on hormonal contraception…that effects their reactions too.

    This isn’t meant to say T isn’t important for a man or that you shouldn’t be doing everything to keep it up, but I temper my expectations when it comes to how a particular woman reacts.

  163. White Guy says:

    Preach it Deti!

  164. earlthomas786 says:

    Although I would say a wife would have more knowledge when it comes to that, than some random woman on the street.

  165. earlthomas786 says:

    Vox’s problem is pride. If he was able to man up and marry a slut and mold her into some great wife…more power to him. Just because he did it doesn’t mean that works for every man, and that doesn’t mean those men are weak and pathetic. Slut wives can really tear down a man even if he is an alpha. I’d rather spend my time molding a woman who isn’t on the feminist/slut train…than to try to mold one that is.

    And if he didn’t marry a slut and still preaches that…he’s a clashing gong for all I’m concerned.

  166. @earl No, but none of them do.

    My first link was from the Daily Mail, where they are always on about how some 40, 50, or even 60 yo woman, dazzles, shines, sizzles, or stuns, in some picture where she looks at least her age or worse.

    Here’s 50 yo Pamela Anderson in her underwear. No idea how many filters or how much airbrushing was used, but I very much doubt she actually looks like she did during her Baywatch days.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5176433/Pamela-Anderson-looks-sensational-sheer-lace-lingerie.html

  167. thedeti says:

    @ White Guy:

    Thanks, but I’m trying to suss it out for myself too. I read the Vox posts everyone’s talking about. He’s made it clear he’s not talking to MGTOWs or to men who have otherwise decided to sit it out. He’s talking to up and coming developing men, to still-married men, and to Christian men who want to bring back Marriage 1.0. It’s almost like a TradCon 2.0 set up, living TradCon values in a post-Christian West. At least that’s what I think Vox is saying.

  168. BillyS says:

    Deti,

    Vox is far too simplistic on this and some other things, but I still agree with his general point. I would have been in your position about a year ago, until I wasn’t. Things can blow up fast and I wish I had some better advice when I was younger. I may work on trying to provide that advice now, since I am figuring out what I really want to push myself into, though I have to see what clicks there as well.

    You are right that most do not want to take the risks, but that is true in many different areas of life and is one of the reasons cucks have taken over so many areas I would normally associate with. God never promised us an easy path, but too many seek that in effect today, which is why I am not afraid to speak up in this and other areas.

  169. White Guy says:

    Same feeling I get from him as well. But as a married man over 40 being unplugged for 2 years this red pill stuff is on insane difficulty mode, and I can’t even imagine it trying to do this at age 23!

    Well I’m off to MC gents (No not kidding), y’all have a good rest of your day.

  170. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Single mom, 38, with her boyfriend, 24: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5173171/Kourtney-Kardashian-dons-leather-pants-date-Younes.html

    Kourtney Kardashian, 38, seemed to be keen on enjoying a quiet afternoon date with boyfriend Younes Bendjima, 24, as they headed for a romantic bite to eat at Little Door restaurant in West Hollywood on Tuesday afternoon.

    This is what’s messing up modern women. The imagine that they can live like rich celebrities.

  171. BillyS says:

    General comment:

    Getting civilization back to something sustainable will take serious effort, whether a crash happens or not. I suspect that the crash is unavoidable, but even the MGTOW approach won’t do so hot there either. That is why we need more solid thought and discussion on the issue, as well as building solid connections. Both are far harder to do today than they should be.

  172. BillyS says:

    This is what’s messing up modern women. The imagine that they can live like rich celebrities.

    Even when they do not look like those celebrities….

  173. honeycomb says:

    Earl ..
    This isn’t meant to say T isn’t important for a man or that you shouldn’t be doing everything to keep it up, but I temper my expectations when it comes to how a particular woman reacts.

    There is a study of the type of man a woman is looking for based on her ovulation cycle .. / .. hormone cycle .. and yes The Pill ™ effects the man she picks.

    So when on the pill she loves less than manly men .. off the pill (and in cycle) she now prefers the High T man-jaw deep vlice guy.

    My take-away was .. don’t marry a woman if she’s on the pill .. HEH

    http://www.livescience.com/28237-women-on-pill-prefer-less-masculine-men.html

  174. Opus says:

    There was (and perhaps is still) an internet scribe who on a daily basis would place links to female teachers having been arrested for indulging in sexual intercourse with one of their students. It is that common and I feel sympathy for the women. I blame the state for not merely allowing but encouraging males to be taught by females. In the above case the boy is sixteen and so even though technically a child it is entirely misleading to so describe him as he is an adolescent and old enough to marry. I was sixteen once and.. well.. she may not have been my teacher (which then would not have been illegal) but I cannot put my hand on my heart and say ‘#metoo and that I continue to suffer from the experience; on the contrary: there is a popular saying that one learns ones cooking on old pans: I was an apt and eager pupil and even successfully past her LMR fitness test. Yay.

  175. MarcusD says:

    @BillyS

    You are guilty of as much binary thinking as any Vox has. I have no desire to support the current system and I will be doing all I can to oppose it, but that doesn’t equate to withdrawing for my own pleasure.

    Who said withdrawing? (In any case, that bit was perhaps too flippant.)

    I try to let everyone speak for themselves. I think he is very naive and probably thinks most men can really control things they cannot, but that doesn’t negate his point.

    I’ll ask the question again: Do you have an alternate interpretation of what he’s written?

    Again, he is encouraging (“giving support, confidence, or hope to”) men to marry woman with “an average number of sex partners.” A woman with the “average number of partners” is a slut. That’s eight (8) men. You want to (re)build civilization on that? To be honest, given that around 15-20% of women marry as virgins, there are more than enough pairings to continue civilization.

    Saying that the “odds are not as bad as they look,” while simply inventing “good enough” odds (“I’ve never run the odds, but I would estimate”), suggests that he doesn’t really care about the risk that is posed (after all, it’s not his life). The language he uses (particularly in the earlier post) very much echoes the “Who Would You Rather Be?” recruitment posters of WWI Britain, as if having high standards was somehow equivalent to surrender to “the Hun.”

    I married a virgin and it didn’t keep me from being divorced almost 30 years later

    Based on GSS data, the divorce rate when marrying a woman who is a virgin is 2.2% (lower when you factor in same religion). I can accept that. (Now, taking the most charitable interpretation of his statements: if I ignore Vox’s rhetoric and even things that he’s claimed factually, that would still constitute taking a risk on my part, which means I get to be in the coveted “Men of the West” club. How exciting.)

    so you should avoid even that if you want to follow your own advice.

    What advice is that?

    I will not support the run for the hills idea either

    Who is promoting that?

  176. Novaseeker says:

    Makes Wendy Griffith look like week-old dog poop.

    No question. But Nicole Kidman is one of the most beautiful 50 yo women on earth, top tenth of a percent there. Wendy is much lower, only top 5-10%, so no question not in Nicole’s league at all, that’s obvious.

  177. 7817 says:

    BillyS,

    You’re take on Vox is the most rational I’ve heard. He used to say he didn’t recommend marriage because of the risks (with three exception of Christian men to Christian women) and then did an about face the last couple of years, and now MGTOW’s are anti civilizational.

    The problem is the binary nature of the comment sections, in my view. At Vox’s site, they posture about being real men and anyone who disagrees is a gamma. Dalrock’s comment section attracts men who have been hurt or rejected, or learning some bitter truth about women. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

    Your advice that marrying a virgin will not save you is spot on.

    Fear is no way to go through life, but being blind to risks can also destroy a man. In the end, all we can do is accept the brutal nature of the world and give it our best effort.

    Ivan Throne’s book The Nine Laws is a pretty decent place to start on all this.

  178. thedeti says:

    7817

    Now that you bring it up I do remember that Vox used to take the stance of “I can’t recommend marriage to men in the West” at AlphaGame as recently as 2014, perhaps. His shift away from “can’t recommend marriage” seems to have coincided with his abandonment of libertarianism in favor of the alt right. He has decided the alt right is a better more potent vehicle with the potential to turn the tide away from the destructive path we’re currently careening on toward total collapse.

    He has always been about “saving Western civilization”, though. That was part of the catchphrase at AlphaGame from the beginning. He’s always been clear men need Game.

  179. MarcusD says:

    @7817

    Your advice that marrying a virgin will not save you is spot on.

    I would be curious to see someone making this argument.

    Based on GSS data, the divorce rate when marrying a woman who is a virgin is 2.2% (lower when you factor in same religion). I can accept that.

    Incidentally, I neglected to calculate the actual divorce rate. If we assume that 70% of divorces are initiated by women, then we can multiply the two to get 1.54% (again, lower rates are possible with higher degrees of assortativity).

  180. earlthomas786 says:

    This is what’s messing up modern women. The imagine that they can live like rich celebrities.

    I don’t think most women get that those type of setups are often not organic or sponteneous. I doubt 24 year old guy is in on this unless he signed some sort of contract or is getting payed somehow.

  181. earlthomas786 says:

    So when on the pill she loves less than manly men .. off the pill (and in cycle) she now prefers the High T man-jaw deep vlice guy.

    My take-away was .. don’t marry a woman if she’s on the pill .. HEH

    Yup…I’ve read that before. If girls on the pill are attracted to me, then I would think something might be wrong.

  182. earlthomas786 says:

    I married a virgin and it didn’t keep me from being divorced almost 30 years later, so you should avoid even that if you want to follow your own advice.

    Yeah but from what you’ve been saying before it sounded like she didn’t want to be married though. Virginity, while a big piece of the puzzle, isn’t the complete picture.

  183. Novaseeker says:

    He has always been about “saving Western civilization”, though.

    Yes that’s true. Puzzling as to why, really. I mean the old Western Civ is never coming back, that’s a pie in the sky to think it is. The current Western Civ isn’t worth saving from the weight of its own flaws. Best to think of the next thing, and also not to think to hard about it, either, because it’s mostly out of anyone’s control. Which means the most important thing to do is to adapt to the here and now, in whatever way makes sense to you, and not because you want to contribute to Western Civ, in my opinion.

  184. Anonymous Reader says:

    I’ve been working with a Physical Therapist with the Starting Strength program to help me recover.)

    Don’t skimp or cheat on whatever that PT tells you to do. I’ve seen enough men in my social circle and family go through various surgeries and less drastic treatments to state this firmly: you only cheat yourself. One man I know has chronic pain because he skimped on his Physical Torture after surgery, and he’s got the choice of pain meds or getting cut again. Don’t skimp or skip.

  185. 7817 says:

    @MarcusD

    My wife claimed to be a virgin when we married. She could have lied I guess, but our marriage has not been peaches and roses. And BillyS was talking about a 30 year marriage to a virgin that blew up.

    Virgins need men with Game just like any woman. Between Dalrock, the Rational Male and old Heartiste posts there’s enough information to give us guys a chance at success now.

    Application is a different matter, but the information is there at any rate.

  186. Anonymous Reader says:

    Ear
    I think if you base how high your T is off women’s reactions that’s not necessarily a good way to indicate it.

    I determine the level of T in my bloodstream with blood testing. Why would you assume otherwise?

  187. Anonymous Reader says:

    Novaseeker
    Puzzling as to why, really. I mean the old Western Civ is never coming back, that’s a pie in the sky to think it is. The current Western Civ isn’t worth saving from the weight of its own flaws.

    I could be wrong, but think this makes you a “Gamma”. It’s automatic and there’s no appeal. Sorry about that.

  188. Novaseeker says:

    I could be wrong, but think this makes you a “Gamma”. It’s automatic and there’s no appeal. Sorry about that.

    Haha — yes I’m well aware, but then pretty much everyone’s a gamma in his book.

    One thing about him is that he really lives a world of his own mind. There are good sides and bad sides to that, I think. Obviously he’s creative. But that predilection to make stuff up overflows into everything else it seems. His hierarchy is made up from thin air — alphas and betas at least has some natural analogue as rough as it is — Vox’s taxonomy is totally made up by him. His version of Christianity is similarly personally tailored — in some ways he’s about as Christian as Thomas Jefferson and seems to normally act much less Christian than he. All of these are reasons why I’ve pretty much always had a high degree of skepticism about him and have given him a wide berth in general. And, yes, that makes me a gamma to him and his groupies — oh yes, the “ilk” — I suppose.

  189. @Nova
    Wendy is much lower, only top 5-10%, so no question not in Nicole’s league at all, that’s obvious.
    You know that, and I know that, but does Wendy know that? I don’t think she does, because she’s the Nicole Kidman of the world of 50 something, never married, Christian women on CBN.

  190. MarcusD says:

    @7817

    My wife claimed to be a virgin when we married. She could have lied I guess, but our marriage has not been peaches and roses.

    The research on the topic has improved a lot over the last 30 years, along with science as a whole.

    And BillyS was talking about a 30 year marriage to a virgin that blew up.

    I don’t believe anyone (here, at least) has made the claim that virginity, in and of itself, would provide a 100% success rate.

    Virgins need men with Game just like any woman.

    Yes, I can agree with you on that. I think I should point out that it is not by belief that virginity of the spouse is a sufficient condition for marriage. My belief is that it is a necessary condition. There are other things to consider, of course.

  191. SirHamster says:

    Now that you bring it up I do remember that Vox used to take the stance of “I can’t recommend marriage to men in the West” at AlphaGame as recently as 2014, perhaps. His shift away from “can’t recommend marriage” seems to have coincided with his abandonment of libertarianism in favor of the alt right.

    IIRC Vox wrote that he could not recommend marriage in general, but that this did not apply to those who were religiously obligated to enjoy sex within marriage (ex: Christians).

    In terms of the AltRight, Western Civilization is based on Christianity, so there is an implicit need of restoration of marriage culture to restore/rebuild the West.

    Western Civilization needs marriage to be rebuilt. Anything else is suicide. For those hoping for reproductive sexbots … ignoring the probable implementation difficulties, the culture raised in such tech will be unlike the culture of Western Civ.

  192. Gunner Q says:

    BillyS @ 3:07 pm:
    “Anyhow, I must admit that Vox’s “Save Western civ – Marry a slut” viewpoint is rather unfortunate, almost as much as his willingness to volunteer risk on behalf of other men.”

    “Can you provide a quote/link for that? I suspect not.”

    Read the article dated 12/9 on Vox Popoli. Vox Day says MGTOWs are worse than feminists because we refuse to have babies then says if we were real men, we’d get married despite the risks and just do a killing spree if the marriage fails. But we don’t want to murder judges or police, therefore we deserve to be betrayed by wicked men. It’s as harsh an anti-MGTOW screed as any I’ve seen.

  193. Yet Another Commenter, Yet Another Comment ("Yac-Yac") says:

    Earlier, I wrote about my frustrations with the whole “α β γ σ ω” language thing.

    I’d like to thank those of you who replied¹. Your comments have brought me much much-needed clarity. Gunner Q was one of the commenters who echoed my frustration with the “α β γ σ ω” language, and that needs to be kept in mind when we read that …

    Gunner Q (December 13, 2017 at 10:49 am wrote:

    “[…] Matriarchy is rule by Alpha men, not rule by women. […]”

    This.

    Thank you for this observation, Gunner Q — it has brought me further, much-valued clarity.

    Since we’re rolling with the language that is available to us, let me suggest that a corollary is that “Patriarchy is rule by (or, that includes) ‘Beta’ men”.

    Another might be, “Feminism is how [some powerful] men screw over [less powerful men].”

    It crosses my mind, that if financial power is getting increasingly concentrated in fewer and fewer hands², it should come as no surprise that at the same time, socio-sexual power is getting increasingly concentrated into fewer and fewer (male) hands.

    Which (if true) suggests that there is something (?) flawed with Rollo‘s thesis of ‘everything’ we talk about here, being driven by a Female Imperative.

    It would have to be something more along the lines, of “Alpha” men are constantly using the Female Imperative as a stalking horse for their pursuit of their own (power & greed) goals. Or something.

    In this vein, I am sure it is no coincidence whatsoever, that at the moment, in the ‘Entertainment Capital’ that is Hollywood, in the ‘Journalism Capital’ that is New York City, and in the Political Capital that is Washswampington D.C., and endless array of culturally, journalisticly & politically very (very) powerful men are being outed as sexual predators of the vilest and most shameless sort — 97% of whom are uber-Liberals, and “male feminists” all.

    Pax Christi Vobiscum

    ———
    ¹ Replies from commenters such as Jason, Gunner Q, and especially Novaseeker — again, thank you all. 🙂
    ² It is laughable to call this a “crisis of Capitalism”, insofar as Capitalism = (genuinely) Free Markets. The “markets” have been getting less and less free, which is why (and how) the wealth is concentrating into fewer & fewer hands.

  194. Son of Liberty says:

    pariah says:
    December 13, 2017 at 3:23 am

    @ Son of Liberty
    “As prophesied in Revelation, the 7th and final church age, Laodicea, “Lukewarm” age of Christianity is exactly what is going on today.”

    The text doesn’t say anything about the seven churches being seven ages. That’s a theory which (as far as I know) came from the heretic William Branham.

    Right from the start of Christianity there have been false apostles, false prophets, false teachers, and false brethren, etc. The true Church has always had to contend with those who are Christian in name only.

    @pariah
    No it has nothing to do with William Branham, in fact I have never heard of him, and it seems to me that he follows through from the false teachings of John Darby, a massive false prophet and a Jesuit puppet that supported the Jesuit-creation of zionism. Dispensationalism, Futurism, Preterism, all Vatican doctriones that go against the KJV Bible, the Hebrew/Textus translation.

    I agree that right from the start of Jesus’ time, false prophets, romish institution, talmudic anti-Jesus jewry movements arose to discredit the Son. Here is in depth information about the seven churches…

    The 7 Churches Of Revelation Deception

  195. thedeti says:

    sirHamster:

    How realistic do you believe it is that marriage will be rebuilt as things stand now, in light of the complete lack of cultural and legal structure to support marriage? And what does that look like? Vox seems to be describing a return to Marriage 1.0. In light of current circumstances, how likely is a return to Marriage 1.0 ?

  196. @Gunner_Q:

    MGTOW went from “enjoy the decline” to incel/Gamma whining over the years. So it went from a group of Men who were making a questionable, if logically defensible, decision into a group that no one wants around and is better understood as a group of angry cowards.

    And, as I’ve said here for a while, there are Legal approaches to drastically drop your Risk profile in a marriage. No one is saying you have to sign up for a Sword of Damocles over your head, but that’s what everyone has bought into. The Gays blew up the legalities around “Marriage”, so use those to your advantage.

    But the issue revolves around that, as a Man, you *decide* your direction. When you make a decision, stop whining about it. Either accept it and move on or blow up the original decision and solve the problem.

  197. @thedeti:

    How many years out before Civil War 2.0 starts? That’s the actual question.

  198. SirHamster says:

    How realistic do you believe it is that marriage will be rebuilt as things stand now, in light of the complete lack of cultural and legal structure to support marriage?

    What does realism have to do with it? The objective is clear, and the only path towards it is through marriage.

    Building a culture is hard. Start by dedicating to the “cult” of Christ.

    And what does that look like?

    No idea. But it’s not going to be grown men sitting around doing nothing. To the victor goes the spoils.

    Vox seems to be describing a return to Marriage 1.0.

    Try to rework your statement to lose the “seems”. On Vox’s blogs, this is typically how a strawman begins. Make a falsifiable point with conviction.

    In light of current circumstances, how likely is a return to Marriage 1.0 ?

    No idea. Maybe we end up at Marriage 3.0. The versioning is less important than the commitment, and building the community to support that commitment.

    Our fathers (collectively) left us ashes, culturally. We can do better.

  199. Luke7 says:

    Re marrying sluts or going MGTOW: what other options are there, now, in current-day America? Everyone knows that virgins of any age aren’t available for J6P at any age for him. (Being a PUA and restricting voluntary interactions with women to P & Ding them has some at least attitudinal overlap with MGTOW, in that LT is ruled out, and for the same reasons.)

  200. SirHamster says:

    MGTOW went from “enjoy the decline” to incel/Gamma whining over the years.

    When I was young, I developed MGTOW inadvertently just by noticing that if feminism was true, I was completely replaceable – why bother? But MGTOW is a dead end, and feminism is NOT true.

    As should be obvious by now, men are not replaceable. Men are needed; and women will not fix the broken system we have. Logically, what is left?

    Men shall dominate and repair existing systems, or develop and replace broken systems. Take your pick – are you a joiner, or a pioneer?

  201. Anonymous Reader says:

    Looking Glass
    MGTOW went from “enjoy the decline” to incel/Gamma whining over the years.So it went from a group of Men who were making a questionable, if logically defensible, decision into a group that no one wants around and is better understood as a group of angry cowards.

    Oversimplification. The literary character Huck Finn is one form of MGTOW, he doesn’t fit into your tidy little worldview. Yet men like him exist even now, even if you cannot see them.

    And, as I’ve said here for a while, there are Legal approaches to drastically drop your Risk profile in a marriage.

    Men were saying that here before you showed up. Good of you to work on catching up with the rest of us.

    No one is saying you have to sign up for a Sword of Damocles over your head,

    “No one is saying” means “not one person”, that kind of sweeping generalization is juvenile. The Damoclean Threatpoint exists, and any man who claims it doesn’t is a fool and / or a liar.

    The Gays blew up the legalities around “Marriage”, so use those to your advantage.

    You’re ignorant. Homosexual “marriage” changes nothing; it does not void the Duluth protocol, nor wipe away VAWA just for a start.

    But the issue revolves around that, as a Man, you *decide* your direction.

    Pretty ironic. First you condemn men who decide in a way that you don’t like, then you come up with this stuff.

    When you make a decision, stop whining about it. Either accept it and move on or blow up the original decision and solve the problem.

    You’re new here, that’s for sure. Because you’re just repeating what Dalrock and other men have been saying for years. Thump your chest all you want, you’re not bringing anything new.

  202. Anonymous Reader says:

    Looking Glass, what country are you located in? Or if that’s too personal, what continent?
    You don’t seem to be very up to speed on US law and custom, for a start.

  203. Anonymous Reader says:

    Looking Glass
    How many years out before Civil War 2.0 starts? That’s the actual question.

    There’s no way of knowing if or when such a thing will happen, and it is an evasion of deti’s question.

    The closest approximation to Marriage 1.0 in the US at this time probably can be found in churches that are theologically conservative, where feminism is limited to 2nd stage equalitarianism and divorce means a woman loses her entire social standing. The kind of church that will kick out a woman who frivorces … not to name any names … is the closest approximation. Even there the average man is Betaized (partly by his own church) and needs Game in his marriage. Prudence dictates such a man be very careful in interviewing a prospective wife.

  204. 7817 says:

    “Read the article dated 12/9 on Vox Popoli. Vox Day says MGTOWs are worse than feminists because we refuse to have babies then says if we were real men, we’d get married despite the risks and just do a killing spree if the marriage fails. But we don’t want to murder judges or police, therefore we deserve to be betrayed by wicked men. It’s as harsh an anti-MGTOW screed as any I’ve seen.”

    It is pretty tough, but one of the tenents of Game is learning not to take things personally. It’s pretty tough because Vox Day doesn’t sugarcoat anything; I’ve certainly had my feelings hurt over there. Either way, it just means you have to get tougher. It doesn’t mean I would completely follow his advice, but I definitely consider it and realize some of it is good, and some of it is beyond my current capabilities.

    Your mileage may vary.

  205. @AR:

    For OpSec reasons, I’m an American, but I spend a lot of time in very different time zones.

    I will retract, “No one is saying you have to sign up for a Sword of Damocles over your head” because I forget, sometimes, how God-forsakeningly stupid much of the Western Church is these days. So, yes, a lot of people (I hope not in these parts) are actually saying to put a Sword of Damocles over your head. I’d have hoped the context of my comment would have made clear the restrictions, but I’ll retract it because it can be taken that way.

    As for:
    “In light of current circumstances, how likely is a return to Marriage 1.0 ?” from Deti,

    I replied:
    “How many years out before Civil War 2.0 starts? That’s the actual question.”.

    That’s not a dodge. That’s the question. The current system isn’t being repaired by the means in which it’s descended into the state it is in now. A Marriage 1.0 state only would happen after some violent set of events and a brand-new government structure.

    Trends that cannot sustain themselves eventually end. It’s the nature of Nature, but just because you can’t see where the current trend ends does not mean it will continue on forever. For any of the Catholics around, they’re dealing with an outright heretic as Pope. Either they’ll deal with the problem or they’ll split again.

    And I’ve been around here for years, so don’t try to pull the stupid lines you are. I’ve been less active lately because I’ve been busy and this chunk of the Net has mostly figured things out. There’s only so many ways you can restate the exact same thing, though there’s been some recent new high-bars for over-the-top Churchian-ness. So that keeps the content running.

  206. Luke7 says:

    1) Where does a man in America (who isn’t Amish, Muslim, or ultra-Orthodox Jewish) find this “marriage” thing we’re supposed to go get one of? The simulacrum of it (often called “Marriage 2.0”) certainly isn’t it. Not many of those are for sale here these days; I twice bought what I thought was marriage, but it wasn’t.

    2) Civil War Two is already underway. It’s just so much different from the overtness of CW1, that most people on our side are having trouble understanding this. 1859 Eastern (“Bleeding”) Kansas had a LOT in common with the various taxes, laws, regulations, media tones, many thousands of “no-go/leave or seriously get ****ed over” neighborhoods, workplaces, and schools as nonliberal Whites experience them now.

  207. Anonymous Reader says:

    Looking Glass
    For OpSec reasons, I’m an American, but I spend a lot of time in very different time zones.

    Then perhaps you’ve been out of country for, oh, about 25 years? Because you write as though VAWA doesn’t exist.

    I will retract, “No one is saying you have to sign up for a Sword of Damocles over your head” because I forget, sometimes, how God-forsakeningly stupid much of the Western Church is these days.

    It is good that you retract a foolish statement. It is not good that you refuse to acknowledge reality. The fact is, any man who marries in the US sits under the Threatpoint. How he deals with it is up to him – ignorance of the facts is very popular and fails regularly; fear of the Threatpoint is not unusual; Game with an attitude of outcome independence works, there is a religious version.

    So, yes, a lot of people (I hope not in these parts) are actually saying to put a Sword of Damocles over your head. I’d have hoped the context of my comment would have made clear the restrictions, but I’ll retract it because it can be taken that way.

    You’re still ignorant of reality on the ground. The Threatpoint exists whether you like it or not, no matter how hard you may wish it away. Again, how a man deals with it is up to him.

    And I’ve been around here for years, so don’t try to pull the stupid lines you are.

    Then you should write as if you’ve been here for years, rather than like AMOG who’s new to the androsphere trolling for flames.

    I’ve been less active lately because I’ve been busy and this chunk of the Net has mostly figured things out.

    Your arrogance is duly noted. It fits well with your blatant ignorance.

  208. Embracing Reality says:

    In the overtly patriarchal times of the Bible both Christ and Paul encouraged singleness for men. The New Testament refers to marriage in 1 Corinthians 7 as “extra trouble” for obvious reasons. The denial it takes at this point to un-see the extra trouble of marriage for a man in this day and age in incredible. That doesn’t mean that no single man should consider marriage but because of the risks, staying single, even if you want marriage, must be considered by any rational man. The only marriage I would consider is one without children to a decent woman with a decent career. I don’t give a damn what that makes me.

    Something people with kids never understand about the childless, we don’t have a stake in the future of this planet beyond our own lifespan. I wish others well but I doubt I have another 30 years left. After that it’s somebody else’s problem. My experience with most so-called Christian people has been rather poor. I think even less of the rest. I’m not joining the planet ‘team’.

  209. Oscar says:

    @ Embracing Reality

    “Something people with kids never understand about the childless, we don’t have a stake in the future of this planet beyond our own lifespan.”

    I assure you, we understand that perfectly.

  210. anonymous says:

    male Christians filter for Christian women in their dating, while female Christians DO NOT filter for Christianity in the men that they date.

    This drove me absolutely crazy when I was single. I and my male friends were holding out for Christian women, while the “Christian” women were dating (and sometimes fucking) nonbelievers. Today, as a married man (15 yrs) and father of 3, I often observe women with children — but no man — walking into church on Sunday morning, and I can’t muster a shred of sympathy. Not for the women, anyway — maybe for the kids.

    Ladies: what part of UNEQUALLY YOKED did you not understand?

    I think there is a lack of “real” men in the church.

    Yeah, Elisabeth Elliot made the same slander. She eloquently described in one of her books, the attributes of the “real man” that she found so lacking in Christian men. And I remember quite clearly, realizing, that she was describing me to a T — BEFORE I became a Christian! A Christian is not any less masculine but he keeps that sword in its sheath rather a bit more often (and rightly so), causing the false impression that Christian men are less manly. No, we just don’t abuse it, we don’t flaunt it, therefore it takes more discernment to see….

    I suppose the reciprocal error would be if a famous Christian male author complained that all the single girls at church were fat pigs, but that when he went to the health food store he was surrounded by gorgeous, physically fit, heathen liberals strutting around in yoga pants — and dared to ask, “why can’t Christian women be that feminine?”

  211. Anon says:

    constrainedlocus,

    The truth Vox and almost nobody else wants to admit is that most husbands today would divorce their wives yesterday if they could. The prohibitive termination clauses of western marriage is what keeps men rowing the boats.

    Unless you mean that modern Western women have become totally unpleasant and unbearable, your statement is false.

    In societies where men have far more power to divorce the wife without cost, divorce rates are very LOW. This is because men tend to put children first, while women put themselves first.

  212. Luke7 says:

    Oscar says:
    December 13, 2017 at 9:28 pm
    @ Embracing Reality

    “Something people with kids never understand about the childless, we don’t have a stake in the future of this planet beyond our own lifespan.”

    “I assure you, we understand that perfectly.”

    I rather doubt that you’ve consciously thought that all the way through, Oscar.

    Look, all of us agree that actions speak far more sincerely of deepest motivations and values than do words, correct? Well, someone who deliberately chooses not to reproduce. IMO, they are effectively saying that what they are, is so low, so unworthy, so despicable, that it does not merit continuation. That is one HUGE permanent thumbs-down the voluntarily-barren are awarding as judgement about their entire lives, that what they made of their lives, almost certainly should have never been. (The only exception re voluntary barrenness is going to be the VERY rare Isaac Newton or the like, but you’re not one of those any more than I am.)

  213. MarcusD says:

    Vox now (December 2017):

    The odds are not as bad as they look. […] I’ve never run the odds, but I would estimate that if you’re on a first marriage to a woman of the same race and religion with an average number of sex partners, your odds of marital success are probably on the order of 85 percent.

    (http://archive.is/dL84o)

    Vox then (June 2016):

    The chance of finding yourself divorced after five years is presently 560 percent greater if you marry a woman with 10+ partners than if you marry a virgin. Of course, there are one-quarter as many virgins marrying as there were in the 1970s, so it is a considerably more difficult challenge to find one.

    (http://archive.is/v0TP6)

  214. rachel says:

    It might do Wendy good to follow the example of an older Christian lady who is actually qualified to teach the younger. Elisabeth Elliot was widowed twice, married three times and, by her and her first husband’s admission, was no looker to begin with. When she got engaged to her last husband she listed the many things she could not provide but said that there was one thing that no woman could outdo her in – gratitude.

  215. rachel says:

    I don’t know what Elliott’s ‘man up’ comments were about but she didn’t give the girls a pass either. She counselled a young woman who was crying that surely God wanted the best for her, a la Wendy. Elliott’s response was, ‘What about the homely young man? Doesn’t he deserve a beautiful wife?’

  216. Luke7 says:

    Rachel, just one question re that older woman aspiring to be a wife:

    She couldn’t if she wanted to ensure that she couldn’t frivorce/divorce court rape a husband. Neither could she possibly bear him any children Lastly, no court or church is going to so much as chide her if post-wedding she immediately, completely, and permanently deadbeads her husband and eschews any domestic chores. She’s not even arm candy, potentially useful in business/politics. Why on Earth would any man think she was worth marrying, as opposed to just hiring domestic help, etc. as needed (that can be immediately fired and replaced upon nonperformance)? Even a Christian man who believes he must marry to have sex is likely these days to sadly figure that, unless children are likely, that celibacy is preferable to marrying an American woman, so no point in bringing up the Biblical admonition on adultery/fornication (which is most an issue for young women & wives, and least of all for single men).

  217. rachel says:

    @Luke. I’m not arguing against any of the points you raise. I’m merely saying that Wendy has not achieved the very thing she is selling advice on. Elliott has, twice, and she gives very different advice. My take away from that is that if anything will persuade a man that it is worthwhile marrying an older woman it is that offering grateful care taking is a better route than the ‘i’m a strong woman, great catch’ approach. Neither route is by any means guaranteed to offer a man enough incentive and Elliott herself was pretty amazed that anyone wanted to marry her later in life.

  218. feministhater says:

    Read the article dated 12/9 on Vox Popoli. Vox Day says MGTOWs are worse than feminists because we refuse to have babies then says if we were real men, we’d get married despite the risks and just do a killing spree if the marriage fails. But we don’t want to murder judges or police, therefore we deserve to be betrayed by wicked men. It’s as harsh an anti-MGTOW screed as any I’ve seen.

    Tradcons are far worse than feminists.They are the absolute nightmare. They want you to sacrifice yourself for them and their ideals. They have not come up with one solution in all the years that we’ve had no fault divorce, the duluth model and still…. nothing, not even with the absolutely absurd ‘#metoo’ campaign. That sealed it for me, they’re all full of shit for sitting back on that one, nothing they say matters anymore, the feminists fucked them over real good and tight. Feminism walked right over them for decades and not a peep.

    Now though, they want to blame MGTOW… Lol! Tell em to fuck off. Works every time. There is not a damn thing they can do to stop MGTOW. It will continue to grow and I will continue to laugh. They brought it on themselves.

    Vox can stick his ‘man up’ rant where it belongs – with a dildo up his arse.

  219. rachel says:

    I am only just starting to see the points you raise though. I’m just as guilty as the next woman of ‘not getting it’.

  220. earlthomas786 says:

    Ladies: what part of UNEQUALLY YOKED did you not understand?

    It seems a lot of them don’t take Scripture literally to begin with.

  221. earlthomas786 says:

    Look, all of us agree that actions speak far more sincerely of deepest motivations and values than do words, correct? Well, someone who deliberately chooses not to reproduce. IMO, they are effectively saying that what they are, is so low, so unworthy, so despicable, that it does not merit continuation.

    Do you want the mother of your children to be an amoral, promiscous woman or a woman who has some sense of morals and dignity?

    Reproduction isn’t just about passing on your genes…it’s important that the child has a good mother.

  222. Novaseeker says:

    Ladies: what part of UNEQUALLY YOKED did you not understand?

    Sure,but in mate selection, attraction trumps everything for most people, including most Christians — not just women, by the way — most Christian men aren’t even showing up at church at all to begin with, never mind not holding out for a Christian wife. The relative few who are showing up and are interested are most often not terribly attractive to most women, which is why so few people meet their spouse at church.

  223. Oscar says:

    @ Luke7 says:
    December 14, 2017 at 1:17 am

    “I rather doubt that you’ve consciously thought that all the way through, Oscar.”

    I have. Which is why I have nine kids. Most of what we do in life has little or no eternal significance. Sharing the Gospel and raising children are two big exceptions.

  224. info says:

    @Novaseeker
    ”Sure,but in mate selection, attraction trumps everything for most people”
    There is no reason to marry a person one is not attracted to anyway. So take into account attractiveness at the very least they don’t have the best but doable then one is to filter for character and salvation.

    If such a person cannot be found despite all the searching. Better to be single instead.

  225. Boxer says:

    Dear Fellas:

    Look, all of us agree that actions speak far more sincerely of deepest motivations and values than do words, correct? Well, someone who deliberately chooses not to reproduce. IMO, they are effectively saying that what they are, is so low, so unworthy, so despicable, that it does not merit continuation.

    Some of us are. Some of us are merely acknowledging our own limitations. Do you want someone like me as a brother-in-law? By that I mean: Do you want to help raise my kids after I f**k your sister’s friends, and she finally gets tired of it, and divorces me?

    I guarantee you that plenty of guys like me are “set in our ways” to such an extent that a monogamous marriage would be impossible.

    Now, I could take your advice, and wife up some nice woman, make her miserable, and be the exception that proves the rule of misandry you guys complain about (pretty sure my divorce would be totally justified lol). I could also revert to being a Mormon and live the order, and have a multiplicity of ugly wives, spend my short life slaving away for them.

    OR

    I could do what I’m doing now, which is keeping the skanks occupied, so they have less time to tempt your sons and brothers, while devoting my life to teach your kids how to do algebra and calculus. In the interim I pay taxes, keep my lawn mowed, and don’t cause too much of a fuss for anyone.

    It’s true that I won’t leave behind any sons to carry on my name; but I’ve got far too many Mormon nieces/nephews/cousins who share my genetic profile anyway. There’s no shortage of us, and when you guys die out, we’ll take over. So as the old whore was famous for saying: “what difference, at this point, does it make?”

    I have. Which is why I have nine kids. Most of what we do in life has little or no eternal significance. Sharing the Gospel and raising children are two big exceptions.

    Congratulations brother, to both you and your wife. That is a fantastic accomplishment!

    Best,

    Boxer

  226. Boxer says:

    Dear Anon:

    In societies where men have far more power to divorce the wife without cost, divorce rates are very LOW. This is because men tend to put children first, while women put themselves first.

    Lots of MGTOW men who want to get married head to Latin America, thinking that these societies are some sort of antifeminist paradise. In reality, they’re just a few years behind California.

    Even in places like Saudi Arabia, feminism is making inroads. Divorce rates may be very low there now, but watch them start to creep up, year by year.

    The longer I live, the more convinced I am of your predictions of (the weirdly Heideggerian) “saving power” of technology to right this ship.

    Boxer

  227. Novaseeker says:

    If such a person cannot be found despite all the searching. Better to be single instead.

    Oh I understand, I was just explaining the issue. If Christians don’t find each other attractive, they won’t marry just for the heck of it, that’s clear.

  228. JDG says:

    I noticed that over the years we keep sliding further and further into the sewer. There was a time when virtually everyone understood that taking a non virgin wife was not a good idea with basically one exception (if she were a widow). And this was before the insane changes in legislation that took all accountability away from women.

    Now I’m witnessing (once again) arguments over how many men a woman can fornicate with before being considered a bad risk for marriage. What about the stats showing how each additional partner a woman fornicates with prior to marrying incrementally impacts the marriage negatively (at least up to 21 or so)? Have those stats been negated or just forgotten?

  229. Otto says:

    The takeaway from this thread is the phrases “man up” and “be a man” are completely toxic.

    The only people who use them today are the ones trying to manipulate men into acting against their own self interest.

  230. Oscar says:

    @ Boxer

    Thanks, man.

    As to your point, some men aren’t cut out to be husbands or fathers, just as some women aren’t cut out to be wives or mothers. As we’ve discussed in these pages before, we’ve both witnessed the devastation that occurs when such a person doesn’t recognize that about themselves and marries and makes kids anyway. My dad’s older brother, for example, had 11 kids with five different women, and abandoned them all. My dad raised one of his brother’s sons (and he still treats my parents as his parents), but the rest of my uncle’s kids weren’t that fortunate.

    Your hedonism is destructive (first and foremost to you), and I pray you repent of it. But it’s less destructive than what my uncle did, so I’m glad that you have that self-awareness. Please don’t make or abandon any kids.

  231. imnobody00 says:

    @Boxer

    “Lots of MGTOW men who want to get married head to Latin America, thinking that these societies are some sort of antifeminist paradise. In reality, they’re just a few years behind California.”

    As I have said several times, I am a European Spaniard, which I have lived for 20 years in Central America (since 1997).

    We are not as bad as Argentina yet but, during those 20 years, I have seen this country being slowly conquered by feminism, sexual liberation, promiscuity and the whole enchilada promoted by USA, United Nations, NGOs, mass media and imitation of USA models (people think that everything that comes from USA is excellent and worth being copied).

    If you want to marry a Latin American woman, take into account that:

    1) There are very hypergamous, with a huge princess complex. I blame “telenovelas”. You see extremely poor girls thinking they are going to get their prince and all their dreams, even if they are plain, unpleasant and live in a slum. I had a girlfriend that didn’t have $5 to go to the movies and thought that I (with one of the best jobs in the country) was below her and treated me with contempt. (She remains single in the slum)

    2) They are very pleasant, sweet and submissive when they know you. Then, when they know you love them, start behaving like bitches and complaining about everything. It’s the princess complex. No pea is small enough for them. They are very skillful in passive-aggressive practices too.

    3) They are prone to marry you disregarding your flaws and divorce you because of your flaws. They see your flaws after they have your kids, then divorce (Not my case: I have never got married)

    4) Lots of young single mothers, because, if they are poor, they prefer to have the kids of a wealthy or attractive man (even if the wealthy men don’t give them money).

    5) The last five years I have seen an increasing trend consisting of these single mothers using the Internet to know and marry American men and then moving to USA. These American men treat them like they are ladies instead of the low-level skanks they are treated in Central America.

    I found my fiancée (20 years my junior) in a fundamentalist religious family with a very rigid mother (who forbade their children to watch “telenovelas”). Their friends mocked her because because “she was boring” (meaning she wouldn’t go partying, dancing or drinking). She is a traditional woman, whose dream is to have husband and kids and care for them. But she is the only one I have met for the last 20 years.

    No paradise here, folks. But it’s much better than the USA. There is more than meets the eye.

  232. earlthomas786 says:

    There are very hypergamous, with a huge princess complex. I blame “telenovelas”.

    I watched one of those on Netflix. Those are pure poison for women. It’s all about female empowerment, taking on bad boys and being garbage to good men.

  233. imnobody00 says:

    @EarlThomas.

    Yes, they are very toxic. Traditionally, they follow the Cinderella story line (the maid marries the rich guy living in the house where she works). The main female character has only to exist and deserves everything without effort. For the last 20 years, they have been incorporating feminism, sexual revolution, divorce and liberal ideas.

    Most people here live in the slums and the poor girls watch telenovelas night and day as if they were documentaries (I guess they fill the role that rom-coms play in USA). Poor girls are very lazy here and they don’t want to work to stop being poor. They expect the prince will provide everything and she would only provide the pussy and bitching.

    If I have a daughter, I will forbid her to watch “telenovelas”. Pure poison, as you say.

  234. thedeti says:

    I completely understand the concept that, now that we’ve got male and female sexual nature figured out, what do we do about that? The conflict, as I see it, falls along these lines:

    1) the Roissy/Captain Capitalism/PUA/Game “enjoy the decline/spread your seed” faction, which has dominated manosphere thought for several years.

    2) The MGTOW/MRA/Elamites/A Voice For Men faction, which says women aren’t worth it in any way so avoid all dealings with them (and which, let’s be honest, is increasingly populated by men who are unwilling to work to become more attractive or, after having done the work, are still unable to attract women)

    3) The Roosh/Voxian “Neomasculinity”/Tradcon 2.0/Alt Right/Save Western Civilization faction, which says men should marry and have children despite the risks, and that the risks are manageable for sufficiently masculine men.

    Where each of us would fall depends in part on what goals you want to reach and what goals you believe are realistically reachable, for you individually. Because at least to me, it’s always been the case that each individual man has to forge his own path within the context of surrounding facts and circumstances then existing. The best path for each individual man is the one consisting of objectives he wants for himself and that he believes he can realistically attain, in my view. And right now, any one of those three paths is acceptable. I don’t think we can necessarily prescribe any one of those three paths as “the best”.

    I agree with the Voxians that, once we’ve figured out what’s up, we have to do something, and take action to make the best of our lives, fortunes, and futures. I also agree with the Voxians that civil war and an eventual breakup of the US are inevitable. What form those will take is unknown, but I do believe they’ll take place along much the same lines Vox has been writing about.

    Where I disagree is the concept that men have a duty to marry, a duty to Western Civilization, a duty to “save” marriage and western civilization, and a duty to reestablish patriarchy. If you want to do all those things because you believe they’re the best course of action for you individually and your in group, by all means, do so, and more power to you. But it has to be remembered that the social compact that used to exist between the individual and society has been utterly destroyed. You don’t owe “Western Civilization” anything, because “Western Civilization” hasn’t given you anything and won’t protect anything you have anyway. Women, or an individual woman, are still empowered to destroy everything you’ve worked for anyway. The social and cultural structure just isnt’ there to protect men right now. The suggestion that a man murder judges, lawyers and ex wives as an expression of masculine power and as a response to a woman’s divorcing him, and apparently as a deterrent to other women following suit, is hyperbolic and over the top, and simply isn’t realistic. Few, very few, men are going to even attempt to do that, not for the least of which reasons is that such action is illegal and will land him in jail for the rest of his life or an electric chair. Nor will they be willing to go out Thomas James Ball style.

    And none of this even takes into account that few men are really ready to take on the challenges of marriage and fatherhood. They don’t have the maturity, the masculinity or the money. And it takes years of learning, education and training to accumulate those things. as few men as ever have those things, or even WANT to have them or CARE about having them.

    And the MGTOWs/Elamites are “taking action” by withdrawing from society. (I’d encourage them to stop complaining on the internet and go about actually going their own way instead of perpetuating the “womenz are just bitches” trope. Because going your own way and having a good career that pays relatively well, without having a wife or children, and without having sexual or romantic entanglements and distractions, has a great deal of benefits for men.

    And the Roissyites are “taking action” by having sex with sluts and enjoying their lives poolside. Not all of them are parasitical on society. Brother Boxer is an example of a modern day productive player/Lothario.

    The point is that each man has to decide what is best for himself, in light of conditions on the ground. And current conditions will not support “saving Western Civilization”, Tradcon 2.0, a return to Marriage 1.0. That’s simply not going to happen a “Hard Reset Event”, such as (1) another civil war, (2) all out total world war including a land and air-based military invasion of the US or a full scale nuclear strike on the US, (3) cataclysmic/apocalyptic weather or astronomical events, or (4) world economic collapse. Of those, (1), (2) and (4) are realistic and will happen eventually. I agree with the Voxians that the most likely event is civil war – we’re already in a cold civil war, we’re sitting on a racial, sexual, and economic powderkeg, and it will not take much to ignite that powderkeg into all out armed hostilities. I don’t want that, but I don’t think it can be stopped, and I think a political breakup of the US is likely to happen at some point. The point I’m making is that right now, as things now stand, we cannot prescribe for all men that the best course of action is to marry and have children.

  235. “While men must act traditionally by risking nuclear rejection and spending lavishly, women have no obligation…”

    She sounds more like a card-carrying feminist to me; “Christian” ‘in name only’ and only “when it’s convenient”…

  236. mike says:

    Let’s not forget the men she sees in the pews who are not “manly men” are almost guaranteed to be severely bald and doughy looking, which this prima donna lacked the ability to foresee as her future options. Why every semi-hot, non-obese older woman thinks she can pull a George Clooney is beyond me. She looks like she might have been a nice mom. Too bad, so sad. The lies of career seeking have led to her holding a marginally successful career bitching about men, which is no doubt fading fast while she searches for her alpha bucks that won’t show up. Hope the phony career was worth it. You traded a happy family life for this.

    Where are the wise woman who are supposed to mentor the young women coming from now? Are there any left?

    30 year old women who believe in fairytale magic whiteknights, fine. But, can’t a 50 year old women have some self awareness, some self-reflection. I don’t think so. Even my consistently divorced aunt still falls for the church bad-boy worship leader every.single.time. A good 30% of women are teens for life.

  237. thedeti says:

    Not going to happen absent a Hard Reset Event

    Sheesh. Should have proofread before posting.

  238. thedeti says:

    @JDG:

    Now I’m witnessing (once again) arguments over how many men a woman can fornicate with before being considered a bad risk for marriage. What about the stats showing how each additional partner a woman fornicates with prior to marrying incrementally impacts the marriage negatively (at least up to 21 or so)? Have those stats been negated or just forgotten?

    What you’re seeing is men being realistic about conditions on the ground. Most men are not going to marry virgins. Most men will not be virgins when they marry. Neither will most women. Most men get a little bit of sex, sometimes. Not nearly as much as they want, but they get some.

    More importantly what you’re also seeing is tacit acknowledgment of The Thirst. Men want sex, and they’ll do almost anything to get it, including having sex with hardcore sluts, including low value men marrying hardcore sluts, including higher value men marrying women with “average” sexual histories (usually consisting of one or two “serious” boyfriends lasting a year or more, a few flings and short term relationships, and maybe a one night stand somewhere in there).

    In other words, serial monogamist women who used their sexual capital to its fullest while they could, allegedly “in search of husbands”. “All along, the whole time, I just wanted to get married! I just wanted to find a man to love me and marry me! But I couldn’t find that for the longest time, because bad men kept tricking and duping me into having sex with them. But I’ve found Jesus now, and I’m not like that anymore, I’m done with the games and the players, and I’m gonna do it the right way this time. I promise I’ll be worth it.”

  239. thedeti says:

    Reminds me of Lucy and the football. “Go ahead, Charlie Brown. I promise that this time I’m gonna let you kick the ball.”

    She said. For the 4,537th time.

  240. Opus says:

    A cautionary tale

    I had a friend who was always bragging about his sexual prowess, so much so that he found for himself on-line a South American. She came here for a week or so and then returned home with an Oops pregnancy. My friend naturally did the decent thing, married her and bought her a desirable house out in the English countryside. Shortly after the marriage the sex stopped; then she registered a caution against the property which means that he cannot sell without her permission or on her terms. The stress of this plus other related factors has turned him to drinking usually accompanied by driving. God, she is ugly too and now turned to fat.

  241. Opus says:

    I should add her age: thirty five at the time of the marriage ie a former carousel rider making a hard landing. Bitch.

  242. imnobody00 says:

    A good 30% of women are teens for life.

    Growing up is willingness to accept the consequences of your actions. You only learn this when you have experienced that these consequences can be very bad and, yet, you have paid the price. Children don’t pay any consequence of their actions (their fathers do) so they are not grown-ups.

    Feminism gives maximum freedom to women and removes any consequence of their actions from them. It’s like being children forever. Daddy State has your back so enjoy the ride. As a result, women do not grow up any more.

  243. Luke7 says:

    Boxer:

    1) I agree with your observations about the difficulty in obtaining, and riskiness in attempting to obtain, marriage in the U.S. now. That is not incompatible with my being in favor of fatherhood. My preferred solution, if you remember, short of the inevitable catastrophic reset, is for those men who can, to go the unmarried/MGTOW fatherhood way. Not screw and run, like the inner city males. Rather, fund egg donor & gestational surrogate services as an unmarried man who never cohabs or lets a woman adopt his children.

    2) Between the stratospheric levels of accounting fraud of members (by some measures, is 3x actual current members), and the high apostasy rates of the young, it’s an open question whether the # of Mormons, including in the U.S., is even holding steady.

    3) Oh, and I have four children. I just wish all of them were via #1 (two partially, two not at all).

  244. SirHamster says:

    Where I disagree is the concept that men have a duty to marry, a duty to Western Civilization, a duty to “save” marriage and western civilization, and a duty to reestablish patriarchy.

    Men as a whole do not have the duty. There are men who are not part of Western Civilization at all and such have no duties to preserve it.

    Myself, I am not a descendant of Western Civ; but I am a beneficiary. That gives me a duty, not of blood, but of honor.

    The core issue is identity – are you part of the Western Civ Team, or not? If you are, you have the duty. If you are not, you do not have any duty. Those who insist they have no duties are not part of the team. Fine, but get out of the way, because this is war and it is unwise to get in the way of critical strategic objectives.

    You don’t owe “Western Civilization” anything, because “Western Civilization” hasn’t given you anything and won’t protect anything you have anyway.

    “Hasn’t given you anything” is debatable for men using the Internet to discuss the very topic from a generally peaceful and prosperous state. But this is still a time of choosing, so keep considering it.

    Few, very few, men are going to even attempt to do that, not for the least of which reasons is that such action is illegal and will land him in jail for the rest of his life or an electric chair.

    A few men doing so is enough to break the system. The system and its response is nonlinear.

    It only took one youthful shepherd to kill a Goliath and rout an army. A man armed only with truth and conviction can transform the world. One Jesus conquers the Roman Empire and dominates world history since. It is Year of Our Lord 2017. What can a man with faith like a mustard seed accomplish?

  245. thedeti says:

    SirHamster:

    The core issue is identity – are you part of the Western Civ Team, or not? If you are, you have the duty.

    I am. But Western Civ has duties to me: To have my back, to refrain from interfering with my use of power and authority over my family, and to not interfere with my pursuit of happiness. Western Civ won’t do those things for me. Why should I do anything for it?

    get out of the way, because this is war and it is unwise to get in the way of critical strategic objectives.

    It’s a cold war at best. It’s not going to heat up, not yet.

    “Hasn’t given you anything” is debatable for men using the Internet to discuss the very topic from a generally peaceful and prosperous state.

    But you just told me “this is war”. And it really hasn’t given me much of anything. I’ve scraped for everything I’ve ever gotten. I’m amazed I’ve gotten as far as I have.

    A few men doing so is enough to break the system.

    No it isn’t. A few men doing so will result in their incarcerations and executions, and in current society tightening the thumbscrews on men. The response will be “look at these men killing people just because their wives divorced them! We have to do something about these eeeevil men! Put them in jail! Keep them from working and earning money! Change the laws to make it easier for women to divorce men!”

  246. SirHamster says:

    I am. But Western Civ has duties to me: To have my back, to refrain from interfering with my use of power and authority over my family, and to not interfere with my pursuit of happiness. Western Civ won’t do those things for me. Why should I do anything for it?

    The SJW-converged skin-suit systems are not Western Civ. Conquer or replace.

    But you just told me “this is war”. And it really hasn’t given me much of anything. I’ve scraped for everything I’ve ever gotten. I’m amazed I’ve gotten as far as I have.

    Cultural war with ideas and words is distinct from physical war where cities are incinerated.

    No it isn’t. A few men doing so will result in their incarcerations and executions, and in current society tightening the thumbscrews on men. The response will be “look at these men killing people just because their wives divorced them! We have to do something about these eeeevil men! Put them in jail! Keep them from working and earning money! Change the laws to make it easier for women to divorce men!”

    Is that why media are so reluctant to criticize the “Religion of Peace”? The system as it is is sustained by the consent of the men who complain AND comply. We’re 16 years after 9/11, and it is ridiculous how much society has capitulated to Islam; conviction is more powerful than the status quo.

    Perhaps it will take another generation of oppression and decay before men finally accept they have literally nothing to lose. God willing we repent before rock bottom.

  247. MarcusD says:

    @thedeti

    What you’re seeing is men being realistic about conditions on the ground. Most men are not going to marry virgins. Most men will not be virgins when they marry. Neither will most women.

    Statistically, this is quite apparent (and unfortunate). I’m probably an outlier in this situation, being a virgin and only willing to marry another virgin. Every last bit of research has found that such an arrangement is the lowest risk situation, and thus I feel it is the only one to take (particularly in the current legal environment). I’ve come to terms with dying a virgin.

    In the end, I’m sympathetic to the MGTOWs, because, absent being married at 35, to give up the whole idea and pursue my interests full-time (actual interests, like mountaineering, _not_ video games and anime). I think MGTOW(s) can be a force for good, assuming that one does not turn away from the world in everything. What I mean by that: men in that situation should create things of value, should volunteer time, and the like. I think it is important to plan for two paths in life, and ensure that both can be of equal enjoyment as well as utility.

  248. Pingback: Weekly Roundup #90 - Charles Sledge

  249. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

    It’s a great time to be a man! A.GREAT.TIME!!!!

    In Swahili we have a proverb, “Asiyefunzwa na mamaye hufunzwa na dunia.” Which literally translates to, “If your mother doesn’t teach you, the world will.”

    Women, especially in these times, are going to get hard lessons from the world.

  250. javier_mendoza says:

    If Wendy were born in the middle east she would have been auctioned off to one of her dad’s friends at age 13 and she’d have 10 kids and 30 grandkids by now. Instead we let her do what she wanted; she decided to be single in her 50’s and now she’s screaming at US for allowing it to happen.

    Women don’t want freedom. Female emancipation is a civilization-ending mistake.

  251. Opus says:

    Western Civilisation

    I am just listening (dropping in and out) to a live broadcast this afternoon from Temple Church London. The pieces are Carols of one sort or another, and part of (wait for it) the Temple Winter Festival. This is a Templar Church (hence the name) but so afraid are they of offending peaceful truck drivers and the like that they are afraid to call it what it is namely the Temple Christmas Festival.

    Christians need to grow a pair.

  252. feministhater says:

    Myself, I am not a descendant of Western Civ; but I am a beneficiary. That gives me a duty, not of blood, but of honor.

    The core issue is identity – are you part of the Western Civ Team, or not? If you are, you have the duty. If you are not, you do not have any duty. Those who insist they have no duties are not part of the team. Fine, but get out of the way, because this is war and it is unwise to get in the way of critical strategic objectives.

    The Western Civilisation that existed before the 1940s? Sure, that might have had merit but after 1960s the actual Western Civilisation that promoted my ideals and my way of life, died, I will not serve the current one, I will not bleed for it, I will not sacrifice for it. It’s not the Western Civilisation of my fore-bearers, it is a sham, a lie, a crock of shit.

    You can do what you will, I will not get in your way.

  253. earl says:

    Women don’t want freedom. Female emancipation is a civilization-ending mistake.

    Women want freedom from their God-given role…but they don’t want to accept or face the consequences of it. The dumb idea is giving them freedom from their God-given role.

  254. SirHamster says:

    Sure, that might have had merit but after 1960s the actual Western Civilisation that promoted my ideals and my way of life, died, I will not serve the current one, I will not bleed for it, I will not sacrifice for it. It’s not the Western Civilisation of my fore-bearers, it is a sham, a lie, a crock of shit.

    As a product of the past Western Civ, do you want membership in the future one?

  255. American says:

    Dear Wendy,

    I’m going to “man up” and show you what I think of what you are on the inside (where it matters), for it’s said a picture is worth a thousand words.

    …………../´¯/)
    …………,/¯../
    …………/…./
    ……./´¯/’…’/´¯¯`·¸
    …../’/…/…./……./¨¯\
    …(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
    ….\……………..’…../
    …..”…\………. _.·´
    …….\…………..(
    ………\………….\…

  256. Trad-cons don’t want the Red Pill, they want a time machine.

  257. Well put Rollo. And since they can’t get that, they want what misery craves.

  258. Luke says:

    @thedeti

    “What you’re seeing is men being realistic about conditions on the ground. Most men are not going to marry virgins. Most men will not be virgins when they marry. Neither will most women.”

    Apples and oranges. Women not being virgins at marriage is pretty much 100% bad. Men not being virgins then? Their marriages are considerably more likely to endure (and to have come to be in the first place). Male virginity is serious DLV to nearly all women (including Christian ones).

  259. Pingback: Look ahead. See the end of the gender wars.

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