If she has enough self esteem she won’t tingle for Harley McBadboy

Over a series of comments, Michael offers the conventional wisdom that women are attracted to bad boys because they lack self esteem:

…Girls are fragile and they want to be loved. If you would rather they do not desperately seek out male attention, any male attention then surround them with love, teach them healthy self esteem and equip them with the tools they need to say no to the jerks and users…

…The message is about surrounding your girls with love and regular reminders of their INHERENT self worth. Such a girl is a hard target for the jerks…

…the fool is reduced to mocking the notion that girls need a strong sense of self worth to fend of the manipulative jerks who prey on the big girls, the akward, the late bloomers, even the pretty ones with a bad case of ‘hate myself’. You are not man enough to to put aside your own bloated fragile ego nor intelligent enough to fathom what some girls need to epuip them for the losers, the cads, the jerk boys and the users…

This is of course the wisdom of our age.  This belief varies slightly from the secular left to the religious right, but the fundamental message is the same.  As Michael points out, the left and right disagree on the source of this all important self esteem:

Now as to your implication that girls have TOO MUCH self-esteem? I won’t mock you since you post was serious, misguided but serious. There is a difference between self-esteem and the sugary grill power black power gay power sap that is cooked by harveywood and the educrats. One is internal, lasting, and calibrated on real characteristics such as compassion, beauty, intelligence, and real accomplishments such as academic or athletic achievement. The former is empty and hollow and is typically based on identity alone I.e. you are worthwhile because you are black, or a girl, or a black lesbian girl. Those aren’t accomplishments nor are they characteristics which have any value in themselves. Yeah you are a girl, so what? But: I am a smart girl, or a pretty girl, or a kind and generous girl and I can afford to act like a lady while my friends compete in the slutstakes pageant and wait for a man who wants a virtuous girl rather than a slut. That’s the real deal self-esteem, with consequences of the good variety for those young ladies who have it.

The secular left teaches that self esteem should come from group membership.  The secular right on the other hand teaches women that their value comes from their beauty, etc.

But modern Christians have everyone beat in this game, teaching women that they won’t be attracted to bad boys if they understand that they are the daughter of the King.  The 700 Club’s Wendy Griffith explains that women (and not salvation) are what Christ was talking about in the parable of the pearl of great price:

Well you know “You are a prize to be won” it was a word that God spoke to me years ago, before I was even in that relationship. I guess I hadn’t been tested on it. Because I was even preaching it to other women “You are a prize to be won” and they were getting it like “Yeah!” But until I got into that relationship and I realized that I didn’t really know my value. I didn’t know that I had that value that God talks about in His word. And if we don’t know that, if we don’t know that we’re that pearl of great price. You know, that we’re royal daughters. If we don’t know that, again we’ll settle for much less.

Griffith teaches the very same conventional wisdom that Michael teaches in the preface to her book You Are a Prize to be Won!: Don’t Settle for Less Than God’s Best:

There are many reasons why we as women cannot properly gauge our worth. Whether we’ve been raised by parents or a parent who simply didn’t know how to nurture and raise an emotionally healthy child, whether we have allowed society, men or a man in our past (or present) to define who we are instead of what God says about us, or whether we have endured cheating, physical abuse or emotional abuse at the hands of a man we thought would always protect us, there are numerous reasons why women enter relationships with the wrong men. The bottom line is we begin to believe the lie that we’re really not worth that much, and we end up being attracted to men who can never truly love us the way we long and deserve to be loved.

Griffith closes the preface with a reminder to the women reading that they are the pearl of great price:

My sister, God has a special word for you that will change your life. You are a royal daughter of the Most High King, a princess in the palace, a pearl of great price and beautiful beyond measure. Your greatest love, the man of your dreams and the father of your children, is out there waiting for you, because you, my sister, are a prize to be won!

As a culture we are drenched in this kind of thinking, and it is flat out cruel to women and girls to teach them that if their heart desires something that isn’t good, the problem is they don’t have enough self esteem.

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116 Responses to If she has enough self esteem she won’t tingle for Harley McBadboy

  1. greginaurora says:

    This girl has two men chasing after her, and one man she’s following.

    If her father wanted to be an influence in her life, he should have been the kind of man his own daughter would follow, rather than the kind of man his own daughter would spurn.

    Harley McBadboy doesn’t chase after her. She chases him.

  2. Pingback: If she has enough self esteem she won’t tingle for Harley McBadboy | @the_arv

  3. Cane Caldo says:

    One is internal, lasting, and calibrated on real characteristics such as compassion, beauty, intelligence, and real accomplishments such as academic or athletic achievement.

    Whatever this garbage is: It isn’t biblical.

  4. Gunner Q says:

    What more can be said? This clucking hen sells MGTOW like President Obama sold guns… better than we ever could have.

    What feral female gave this woman a man’s name? Please tell me she only picked it to hide in plain sight… not her real name… cross-dressing is bad enough when limited to clothing.

  5. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Stranger Things actress Sadie Sink, age 15, whines that her show doesn’t have enough “Girl Power”: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5157261/Stranger-Things-Sadie-Sink-glams-spread.html

    She also “glams it up” in a new photo shoot (i.e., dresses in slutty clothes).

    She’s 15. Dressing like a slut. Demanding more “girl power” on TV. And she’s a celebrity role model to young girls.

  6. earlthomas786 says:

    For the delusional women out there who don’t know about what the pearl actually is…

    “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls, and upon finding one pearl of great value, he went and sold all that he had and bought it.’ Matthew 13:45-47

    Now I have to ask myself…why is this woman trying to make herself and other women the pearl of great price instead of what Jesus said it was? It can’t possibly be that they are trying to make themselves the god, could it?

  7. Oscar says:

    Let’s play switch the sexes.

    “The bottom line is we begin to believe the lie that we’re really not worth that much, and we end up being attracted to women who can never truly submit to us the way we long and deserve to be submitted to.”

    How’s that, Ms Griffith?

  8. Anonymous Reader says:

    It is cruel to teach Daddy’s Special Princess that anything her heart desires could ever be anything less that wonderful! Because if girls and women stop following their heart there’s nothing and no one else to lead them.

    Cue Hallmark / Oxygen / Lifetime movie…

    PS: Newly arrived commenter “Michael” started off as a grandmother in South Texas with granddaughters, briefly shifted to a pale shadow of an internet tough guy, then became some sort of LOLcat, currently is posing as a curious schoolgirlish figure who just wants to understaaaand. Perhaps “Michael” is just trying to figure out which gender xie prefers, or maybe someone’s in a hormonal transition of some sort. Or a fanboi is trolling.

  9. Mike T says:

    Women like bad boys for the same reason men like femme fatales. In both cases, the sexual polarity is typically an order of magnitude higher in that person than it is in normal, “good people” of the opposite sex. Given the choice between a really masculine man/really feminine woman or a more androgynous partner, many people take the broken one because it is genuinely sexier.

  10. Trust says:

    I seriously wonder if the false religion of Revelation 18 is feminism. I would have laughed at the idea a few years back, but the shoe does seem to fit. I cannot think of anything else that is this great of a false doctrine or more religiously followed dogma than this, there are literally people sitting in jail today whose crime was to blaspheme feminism.

  11. David says:

    Women like bad boys for the same reason men like femme fatales.

    False. That is pretty ignorant, actually.

    Where did men ever say that a femme fatale is THE preferred archetype of attractive women?

  12. Trust says:

    @Mike T says:
    Women like bad boys for the same reason men like femme fatales. In both cases, the sexual polarity is typically an order of magnitude higher in that person than it is in normal, “good people” of the opposite sex. Given the choice between a really masculine man/really feminine woman or a more androgynous partner, many people take the broken one because it is genuinely sexier.
    ___________

    True, but I think there is a deeper issue at hand. I’m not proud to admit that before I was a married Christian, I had quite a few partners, and some of them I indulged in simply because they were sexy bad girls who I knew would be dynamos.

    HOWEVER, and this is key, there is nothing I have ever given sexually to another woman that I would not and will not give to my wife. There is plenty that women will happily do for Harley McBadboy that they will not only deprive their husbands of, but act as if their husband is a scum for even having interest.

    In something very shameful, a couple of my partners turned out to be married, unbeknownst to me, and I found out that they did things with me in a brief encounter that their husbands never experienced with them. i still feel guilt over that.

    My experiences pre-christianity are part of the reason i waited longer than usual to marry and was a bit afraid to do so.

    Very sad.

  13. earlthomas786 says:

    I seriously wonder if the false religion of Revelation 18 is feminism.

    Or some feminism-Islam hybrid. In any case reading a book about the people who worshipped Baal and had Jezebel running amok (which you can also find in the Bible with Elijah) …it seems things like child sacrifice (abortion), sexual immorality (same), and worshipping the rain (creation instead of the Creator) were the big things. Along with killing the prophets.

  14. earlthomas786 says:

    Where did men ever say that a femme fatale is THE preferred archetype of attractive women?

    I wouldn’t…that version of a female is very unfeminine.

    Women have this clueless idea however that a man being a criminal or bad is somehow more masculine.

  15. Anonymous Reader says:

    No, no, MikeT, our new commenter “Michael” assures us that all one need do is buy the right T-shirt for any girl or young woman and poof she’ protected against bad boys by the magical power of “Daddy” in pink ink. C’mon, get with the times.

  16. Darwinian Arminian says:

    The message is about surrounding your girls with love and regular reminders of their INHERENT self worth. Such a girl is a hard target for the jerks.

    Pshaw, Michael can’t even manage to be original. If he wants to tell us that a women’s supposed godliness is a natural repellent to bad boys then someone should inform him that frauds like Matt Chandler have already been kicking that particular dead horse for years:

    Key quote towards the end:

    “Single women, let me chat with you for a second. If you’re a single woman in here, here’s my encouragement to you. I want you to feel freed up to grow in a knowledge of the Word of God, grow in doctrine, grow in leadership without having to wait for a man. In fact, I would just encourage you that a sure way to spray on boy repellent… Are you tracking with me? If you don’t want some immature fool to kind of pursue you, flirt with you, mess around with you, just become ferociously godly and brilliant around theology, doctrine, and the Word of God.

    Boys are turned off by that. Men see it and go, ‘Praise! I’ve been asking for that, Lord.’ He’ll speak in a tongue, right? That’s next week’s sermon. Anyway, they’ll see that, and they’ll be like, ‘Yes, Lord! He has heard my prayers.’ They will join Adam and say, “’Whoa! I mean, woman! Thank you!’ Listen. Don’t wait. Lead. The Spirit of God is inside of you. You’ve been given gifts. Lead.”

    There you have it. When we’re talking about a godly woman, we must always understand that her innate goodness only attracts more goodness to her. So if we see a godly woman from the church giving her sexual favors away to what seems to be a bad boy then we must understand that we’re seeing something incorrectly — because if he was really bad, her goodness would have naturally made him walk away from her. And also because a godly woman would never want a bad boy. Right?

  17. DeplorableNationalConservative says:

    Downright blasphemous.

    The “Pearl of Great Price” is Christ.

    Giving Woman the worship and obedience due to God alone was the sin of Eve and Adam, respectively.

  18. Mike T says:

    Where did men ever say that a femme fatale is THE preferred archetype of attractive women?

    You know, judging from the emphasis you put in your own comment there, I am beginning to think you can’t tell that I made a general statement rather than a statement of some universal, axiomatic truth.

    No, no, MikeT, our new commenter “Michael” assures us that all one need do is buy the right T-shirt for any girl or young woman and poof she’ protected against bad boys by the magical power of “Daddy” in pink ink. C’mon, get with the times.

    Yeah, I’m not as woke as Michael.

    Back in the real world, the girls that actually are protected by this sort of thing are the beneficiaries of a lucky combination of a good father, probably a good mother (or one who did them a favor and left her to be raised by a good father) and enough support to allow them to raise her right. Which urban prophet was it that said you can’t make a wife out of a ho? It’s all about raising the girl right or her having such a powerful come to Jesus moment that she gets it through God’s grace.

  19. Anonymous Husband says:

    My oldest daughter has self-esteem in spades and never lacked love and a strong family structure. She met the newly-converted tattooed bad boy at work and started sleeping with him, then came to me and announced that they were moving in together and even that they had “prayed about it.” I disabused her of the idea and confronted the young man; they agreed to stop their sexual relationship and then decided to get married instead. We objected, of course, which created a distance between us. So we didn’t know that he had started drinking heavily again and abusing her until she announced she was divorcing him a year later.

    She’s still got the self-esteem and all the “grrl power!” you could want. She has remarried to a respectable young man, but there’s something not right in her attitude toward him that gives me concerns that when things get difficult she might bolt. Oh, and as a kicker, she announced recently that she doesn’t think she wants kids. It’s heartbreaking, but I don’t know what I could have done differently to avoid this outcome.

  20. Mike T says:

    When we’re talking about a godly woman, we must always understand that her innate goodness only attracts more goodness to her.

    Huh. The devil must be holy then because every godly person I’ve ever met will tell you that the devil camps out on their door step to try to drag them back into his camp.

  21. Michael says:

    Dalrock
    “Over a series of comments, Michael offers the conventional wisdom that women are attracted to bad boys because they lack self esteem.”

    Actually I said no such thing. What I did say is what you accurately quoted below, that healthy girls are more easily able to resist the tingle two step, the pump and dump, the F and forget.

    “As a culture we are drenched in this kind of thinking, and it is flat out cruel to women and girls to teach them that if their heart desires something that isn’t good, the problem is they don’t have enough self esteem”

    I agree. But then, that’s a strawman. Neither I, nor so far as I could tell Griffith made that argument. Rather the argument that I made was and is that resisting temptation, whether it be tingly alpha cads or long fat lines of crystal meth are easier and better resisted by those who possess a healthy sense of their own value. Perhaps you will accept a related example. I have a Christian group come to my business quite frequently because I always give them money, and so I have the chance to hear many of their stories. They are all junkies who are working on their sobriety. The basic story is the same; what was once a broken wretch who valued themselves so little they would sell themselves for the next high become convinced that they have inherent worth because God loves them. It takes a lot to keep a junkie off his junk for a couple years so I respect the power of the Christian message in restoring and building, yea you guessed it- self esteem.

    Further more I don’t understand your meaning when you focus on the girls desires for something bad. Surely you don’t think you can do more than help anyone deal with their desires? You don’t think you can change them do you?

  22. Mike T says:

    She’s still got the self-esteem and all the “grrl power!” you could want.

    We have it on good authority from Michael that your daughter couldn’t possibly exist.

  23. seventiesjason says:

    When I would hear about a girl I liked giving some guy a bj or oral I would say “I guess she has low self-esteem” sarcastically

  24. galloper6 says:

    Well duh…… Femme Fatales “in movies” are attractive because they are played by hot actresses. Bad and ugly would never sell to men.

  25. Spike says:

    “Michael” profoundly misunderstands women’s nature from Sentence 1. They aren’t fragile. They actively want to chase bad boys, because bad boys make them ”feel” something.
    Kudos though for the phrase, ”Harveywood” – where all of our A-List heroines – all portraying kick-ass angels – prostituted themselves on the Phallus of Harvey in order to get those roles, and kept utterly quiet about it. Academy Award for awesome talent – yeah, right.
    Ms Griffiths would be wise to at least direct girls in the congregation to, while ”not settle for less than God’s best”, but they should at least try settling for God’s – that is, Christian men. Most don’t.

  26. Michael says:

    Anonymous Husband
    “My oldest daughter has self-esteem in spades and never lacked love and a strong family structure. She met the newly-converted tattooed bad boy at work and started sleeping with him, then came to me and announced that they were moving in together and even that they had “prayed about it.” I disabused her of the idea and confronted the young man; they agreed to stop their sexual relationship and then decided to get married instead. We objected, of course, which created a distance between us. So we didn’t know that he had started drinking heavily again and abusing her until she announced she was divorcing him a year later.

    She’s still got the self-esteem and all the “grrl power!” you could want. She has remarried to a respectable young man, but there’s something not right in her attitude toward him that gives me concerns that when things get difficult she might bolt. Oh, and as a kicker, she announced recently that she doesn’t think she wants kids. It’s heartbreaking, but I don’t know what I could have done differently to avoid this outcome.”

    I haven’t argued that chicks with self esteem don’t crater their lives by making bad descisions. Oh contraire. The other archetype is the VERY confident pretty and or smart girl who spreads her wings and takes flight a bit too early. What I argued is that emotionally healthy girls are better able to resist the bad boys.

    There is a difference between self esteem and grrrl power. One is real and internal and the other is phony and external.

    But to your story: too many parents believe Dr. Phil’s hype that kids are little tape recorders reproducing all their parents observable pathologies. But that’s bunk. Most anything you can measure, IQ, empathy, extroversion/introversion etc are significantly genetic, maybe half. Only about a half nurture. So your daughter gets to own this, not you. As for her ex, Maybe he’s just a loser but she saw him as a way to adulthood. In any case I wish the best for y’all.

  27. Michael says:

    Spike
    ““Michael” profoundly misunderstands women’s nature from Sentence 1. They aren’t fragile. They actively want to chase bad boys, because bad boys make them ”feel” something.”

    A better way of saying that is that women chase bad boys, alphas really, because women want to marry up, as in up the Marriage Market Scale. Alphas are alphas because women regard them as high on the marriage market or sexual scale. Women’s dependency on men for their own status does make them more fragile than men. Call a woman ugly. She’s crushed. Just ask Milo who melts feminazi harpy man haters by calling them unF’able. It’s hard to insult men with that sort of impact. Though several ankle biters here have labored as hard as any 8th grade means girls clique to do so.😂

  28. JDG says:

    … resisting temptation, whether it be tingly alpha cads or long fat lines of crystal meth are easier and better resisted by those who possess a healthy sense of their own value.

    Our worth is not really of the “self” at all. Neither is it “our own”, rather, it is worth given to us by God.

  29. Blue pill Vox readers, who’d a thunk it?

  30. Though several ankle biters here have labored as hard as any 8th grade means girls clique to do so.

    Look at the OP and recalibrate.

  31. Girls and young women do have low self esteem, and it might factor into why they are attracted to bad boys, but I don’t think that is the stand alone reason. I touched on this topic in a post called “I’d Rather Date A Guy Who’s Boring Than Deal With An Asshole.”
    http://damesthatknow.com/2017/06/05/id-rather-date-a-guy-whos-boring-than-deal-with-an-asshole/

    Spike who says girls want to “feel” something is correct. They’d rather feel something than nothing.

  32. seventiesjason says:

    As a former cocaine addict and alcoholic…..could tell you about the debauchery, bring up all the fermented kittens……

    No. It was choices I made. Self esteem had nothing to do with it. It’s easy to make excuses…..and I did for many years as I was swirling down a fetid drain……

    In the end what made sobriety work through AA / NA and many of the decent offerings / opportunities that my own church (Salvation Army) work was this:

    Repentance.

    Fully accepting what “I” did. No blame. No deflection. No passin’ the buck. No half apology of “sorry about that, but I did this because this or that happene to me”

    My church is full of former addicts. Yes, God loves you. Yes, come as you are! Yes, life can be repaired in many of these cases. But true repentance. A real turning away. A new creation in Him requires this.

    You can make excuses why you became an addict but to God, he doesn’t want excuses. He wants real repentance.

  33. Michael says:

    JDG
    “Our worth is not really of the “self” at all. Neither is it “our own”, rather, it is worth given to us by God.”
    I won’t dispute that. I will just say that you need a way to communicate your ideas and values to the secular.

    To all, especially our Host I appreciate your tolerance and willingness to fence with someone who clearly doesn’t share your views. I have probably made myself clear by now and it would be rude to stick around just to make fun of a couple of ankle biters. So unless there is anything else I’m gonna jet.

  34. The power of the Christian message is that we suck and deserve nothing better than the worst, but God loves us anyway. Not that God’s love magically makes us good people.

  35. Michael says:

    Seventiesjason

    More Power to you, man. I hope you remain blessed.

  36. iforgotmyscreenname says:

    Anonymous Husband-“She has remarried to a respectable young man”

    Your son-in-law is a sucker.

    “but there’s something not right in her attitude towards him”

    Because he is a respectable man. She doesn’t respect him. She respects the bad boy.

    “she announced recently that she doesn’t think she wants kids.”

    She doesn’t want kids with her respectable husband. If she was with a bad boy, then she would want kids. Your daughter wants kids with a bad boy.

  37. Anonymous Reader says:

    “Michael”
    There is a difference between self esteem and grrrl power. One is real and internal and the other is phony and external.

    You previously argued that an external T-shirt with a phony slogan on it about “Daddy” and “red dot” was the key to self esteem. You’re not very good at trolling…

  38. JDG says:

    We live in a hedonist society where self love is paramount and self esteem, ego building, feeling good about yourself and thinking you’re important are considered worthy achievements.

    2Tim 3:1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

    When Job encountered the Almighty:
    Job 42:5 “I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear,
    but now my eye sees you;
    6 therefore I despise myself,
    and repent in dust and ashes.”

    The apostle Paul:
    Romans 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
    Romans 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

    Self esteem aka self love is wicked.

  39. Anonymous Reader says:

    “Michael”, a troll
    So unless there is anything else I’m gonna jet.

    Promises, promises…

  40. earlthomas786 says:

    @Darwin…

    I get annoyed because so many people seem to think that women don’t have free will to make a choice. They can make the right decisions…or they can make the decisions that cause them and their army of white knights to rationalize it was the man’s fault.

  41. earlthomas786 says:

    Self esteem aka self love is wicked.

    Self denial and taking up your cross and following Jesus is how you save your life.

  42. JDG says:

    Earl,
    And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. (Luke 9:23)

  43. seventiesjason says:

    JDG

    Amen!!!!!

  44. feeriker says:

    In something very shameful, a couple of my partners turned out to be married, unbeknownst to me, and I found out that they did things with me in a brief encounter that their husbands never experienced with them. i still feel guilt over that.

    I guarantee you that they knew full well that if you had known that they were married, you would have kicked them to the curb immediately. That’s why they hid it from you. Adulterous sluts get a “high” from pulling that kind of crap. That’s also why any married man who senses his wife growing sexually distant had better gear up for battle. It’s not unreasonable to suspect that she might be pulling on some other man/men what those women pulled on you.

  45. earlthomas786 says:

    “Michael” profoundly misunderstands women’s nature from Sentence 1. They aren’t fragile. They actively want to chase bad boys, because bad boys make them ”feel” something.

    They actively chase the men who make them ‘feel’ something. Whether that man is a conficted felon or a productive responsible man doesn’t matter much in the overall scheme. The fact we’ve gradually grown into something where women’s feelings are everything is a big part of the mess we are in.

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  47. Darwinian Arminian says:

    @Trust
    I seriously wonder if the false religion of Revelation 18 is feminism. I would have laughed at the idea a few years back, but the shoe does seem to fit.

    Not a bad insight. I think you’re onto something. Keep in mind that they even made references throughout the book to “The Whore of Babylon” as an emblem for a system of evil. But if you brought that up in one of today’s churches, how quickly do you think you’d see the pastoral staff rush forward to explain that the Whore in question is really just a victim of weak men and “boys who can shave” that should be blamed first for failing to protect her?

    To swipe from Mark Steyn: Your top Olympic hotshot could ingest every steroid in the book and he’d still never beat that time.

  48. Paul says:

    “Wendy Griffith explains that women (and not salvation) are what Christ was talking about in the parable of the pearl of great price”

    Wendy explains… that should have lead to some questioning looks.
    Teaching authority on biblical matters is with men, not women.
    Which man is correcting her?

  49. mjyunko says:

    Actually I found the reverse to be true. The higher the “self-esteem” of a girl, the more likely it is that she would seek out bad boys and men who she knew would make terrible boyfriends/fathers or husbands. It was rather more the shy introverted girls who preferred to look for Mr. Right early on.

  50. Self-esteem in the context of western women is fascinating.
    Sometimes there’s confusion as to what ‘self-esteem” really means.
    Self-esteem is how a person values themselves.

    The opposite of self-esteem is self-effacement, namely, being shy, preferring to stay out of the spotlight, shunning attention, and praise from others. To efface something is to erase it, so to be self-effacing is to try to remove one’s self from various situations, especially ones that draw attention.

    In my opinion, modern western females in no way lack self-esteem.
    If you think everything you do is wonderful and deserves praise and congratulations, then you have no self-esteem problems.

    I don’t think it is an exaggeration to say that modern western women are using every single opportunity and situation to quite literally and collectively pat themselves on the back. At school, at work, in relationships, married and mother of children, in divorce, in spirituality, in competitive sport, etc.

    But, too much self-esteem and you start to encroach upon the territory of egotism, narcissism, arrogance and conceit.

    While I do think the feminine is deliberately overcompensating for what is actually low self-esteem, they don’t necessarily want to bump their heads up against narcissism, conceit and being “stuck up bitches” either.

    Oh, it’s so hard to just be a woman and make everyone happy and less critical these days!

    So yeah, I do think the challenge for young women in modern times, living within an abundant, secure, technologically advanced and convenient society with endless sources of hedonism, attention and social validation, lies in striking some semblance of balance.

    If you feel like you are not worthy of good things, then you may have low self-esteem.

    What I think we might be missing here is this:

    In an environment where feminine responsibility and accountability is utterly absent and excused, and in which there is constant and rich ego-stroking, self-congratulation and feminist triumphalism might woman with “low self-esteem” actually be a woman at equilibrium? In other words, might she be a “normal” woman with some modesty and humility?

    I think that’s possible.

  51. To my comment above, I guess I’m asking the question: Is a woman with low-esteem in the modern age necessarily a bad thing?

    My theory is that we have an oversupply of unapologetic female attention whores.

    So a woman with low self-esteem may not be a bad thing.
    Her humility, modesty, grace, compassion, kindness, sensitivity, innocence and helpfulness do her credit.

    Don’t look now, but these adjectives to describe her are also feminine virtues.

  52. Otto says:

    Another word for “low self esteem” is humility.

    Somehow, the concept of women being humble has gone out of style in Evangelical circles.

  53. Opus says:

    Some decades ago I was being pursued by a secondary school teacher and I not being interested enquired of her whether she fancied my chances with her pupils. She explained that I would not stand a chance because at their age they are attracted to boys with Motor Bikes and Leather Jackets. That I had a motor car and owned my own place and was at least sufficiently attractive for their cougar teacher to pursue me would not be sufficient.

    Young girls like excitement: surely Leo Tolstoy was not mistaken when he had his heroine Natasha Rostov throw up Prince Andrei Bolkonsky for bad boy Anatole Kuragin. Of course, as it must, it all ended in tears.

  54. Daniel says:

    Neither men nor women want to submit to this truth: You are not your own.

    We all belong to the Creator, and do not have the right to do as we please.

    Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

    The biblical reason to avoid sexual immorality is not because of the harm it will bring upon you, or that “you belong to your future spouse.” If you are a Christian, you belong to God in a special way, not only as your Creator, but also as your Redeemer. Christ bought you with his own blood, and your body belongs to him.

    I Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

    Men answer directly to Christ in this matter.

    Women have been placed under authority. As a girl, she is under her father’s stewardship, and must obey her father as the Lord’s representative. She doesn’t get to chase whatever man suits her fancy and claim that she’s obeying God. This is a blessing. A young woman is vulnerable to seduction, and her father’s judgement is required in choosing a husband.

  55. JDG says:

    – self-es·teem
    noun
    confidence in one’s own worth or abilities; self-respect.
    synonyms: self-respect, pride, dignity, self-regard, faith in oneself;

    – self-re·spect
    noun
    pride and confidence in oneself; a feeling that one is behaving with honor and dignity.
    synonyms: self-esteem, self-regard, amour propre, faith in oneself, pride, dignity, morale, self-confidence

    – self-con·fi·dence
    noun
    a feeling of trust in one’s abilities, qualities, and judgment.
    synonyms: morale, confidence, self-assurance, assurance, assertiveness, self-reliance, self-possession, composure

    – hu·mil·i·ty
    noun
    a modest or low view of one’s own importance; humbleness.
    synonyms: modesty, humbleness, meekness, diffidence, unassertiveness; lack of pride, lack of vanity; servility, submissiveness

    Which of the above does the Bible instruct us to emulate?

  56. thedeti says:

    Women are attracted to bad boys because bad boys are masculine. At least they are more masculine by comparison than the nice Christian boys, the milquetoast wimps, and unassertive compliant college boys are.

    Bad boys don’t care what anyone thinks of them. Good boys care very, very much what EVERYONE thinks of them.

    Bad boys take what they want, whereas good boys ask and then slink away when denied, like their mothers taught them.

    Bad boys approach and go for it, whereas good boys stand by the wall and wait their turn like compliant little automatons.

    Bad boys do what they want to do. Good boys do what everyone else tells them to do.

    It has nothing to do with self esteem. It has everything to do with tingles.

    It has nothing to do with being “better able to resist bad boys”. Christian girls raised in Christian homes want to date and have sex with sexy men just like any other girls do. It’s about what’s important to them, not about whether they like themselves.

  57. thedeti says:

    The “girls date, have sex with, and marry bad boys because they don’t like themselves very much and have low self regard and low self esteem” BS has entered the mainstream zeitgeist and even the therapeutic and theological realms because we need a more palatable explanation than the actual reason girls date, have sex with, and marry bad boys.

    The actual reason is that girls and women are sexually attracted to masculine, sexually attractive men; they want to have sex with those men; and because of the way male and female nature works, it is very, very easy for women to have lots of hot sexy sex with lots of different hot sexy men. Girls and women, like everyone else, are fallen and sinful, and give in to their temptations. Women lust and inability to constrain themselves just like men do, because they’re human. Women carry the curse of Eve- they want to get that guy, marry him, and then change him into what they want him to be (the desire to rule over her husband).

    That’s why, Michael. It’s not because they don’t like themselves enough. It’s because they like themselves TOO MUCH.

  58. earlthomas786 says:

    Which of the above does the Bible instruct us to emulate?

    Humility.

    Everything we have is from God…that includes our abilities and talents.

  59. Boxer says:

    Bad boys approach and go for it, whereas good boys stand by the wall and wait their turn like compliant little automatons.

    This is 99% of the problem.

    I had already had sex several times as a teenager, but had never had sex with the girls I really wanted to have sex with, when I blurted out a seemingly rhetorical, “wanna have sex?” in the direction of a girl who was a year older, and far better looking than any of my peers. In the span of 5 minutes we were banging.

    After it was all over she said “Jeez, what took you so long to ask… I thought you didn’t like me that way…”

    The simple fact is that almost no women will approach. They will wait around, close by, waiting for you to make your move. If you’re a “nice guy” who has been conditioned to think that women don’t want to bang like we do, then these women will come to hate you, either for your spinelessness or for your apathy (they probably assume you’re getting better if you don’t approach).

    Just ask.

  60. BillyS says:

    From Greg at the start of this discussion:

    If her father wanted to be an influence in her life, he should have been the kind of man his own daughter would follow, rather than the kind of man his own daughter would spurn.

    The problem with even this is that modern society doesn’t allow a father to really do anything about a daughter who strays, even if she is a minor.

    Claiming it is all the man’s fault for not being good enough is the same flaw, just from a different aspect. You need both the carrot and the stick. Being a strong carrot is certainly useful, but is not enough.

  61. Gunner Q says:

    thedeti @t 8:18 am:
    “At least they are more masculine by comparison than the nice Christian boys, the milquetoast wimps, and unassertive compliant college boys are.”

    This is overly cynical. Bad boys are attractive because they rebel like the devil. Drugs, theft, breaking rules for the sake of it. Good for drama and bad for civilization.

    Unassertive college boys have excellent reasons to be unassertive. Don’t blame them for being weak while feminists are actively kneecapping them. That’s called a tag team.

  62. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    The women who exalt their own godliness and holiness, they sound like the Pharisee in Luke 18:9-14.

    To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people — robbers, evildoers, adulterers — or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

    “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

    “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

    So much for self-esteem. The Pharisee was overflowing with self-esteem. That was his downfall.

  63. earlthomas786 says:

    The simple fact is that almost no women will approach. They will wait around, close by, waiting for you to make your move.

    There was an article a while back where it was your typical ‘where have all the good men gone’ and the woman suggested that the ladies should be the ones who should make the first move, ask for a date, etc. In this era of equality and feminism women should be able to do that as much as men.

    It was quite a laugh for me. The only time Ms. Empowered ever approached me was when she had liquid courage. This is one area women will never take the risk…because they can’t handle rejection like a man.

  64. earlthomas786 says:

    Unassertive college boys have excellent reasons to be unassertive. Don’t blame them for being weak while feminists are actively kneecapping them. That’s called a tag team.

    Selective assertiveness is what your responsible men should have. They shouldn’t be assertive with women they know are clearly not marriage material…but they SHOULD be if they discover a woman who might have those talents. Don’t hang around waiting because EVERY woman likes an assertive, take charge man (until they decide they don’t but that’s a different story).

    The PUAs, the ‘bad’ boys, and the like…they are assertive but not discerning with women.

  65. thedeti says:

    @ Gunner:

    I’m not blaming college boys for being unassertive, and I’m not calling them “weak”. I’m reporting what actually is, and how they actually behave.

    Unassertive college boys are such because that’s what their mothers, pastors, teachers, Scout leaders, and other adults in their lives trained them to be.

  66. Boxer says:

    The PUAs, the ‘bad’ boys, and the like…they are assertive but not discerning with women.

    Actually, we are discerning. Those of us with any dignity don’t have sex with married chicks (and we do our due diligence before we initiate, to make sure she’s not pretending availability). We don’t want to have sex with crazy chicks. Most of us don’t want to have sex with single moms (too much crazy to justify).

    The reality is that some of us just aren’t cut out for the vocation of marriage. You should thank us for the self-awarness. Do you think I would be a great son-in-law to you, after all the hoez I’ve run through? You think I would be a good match for your sister? Would it make her happy when I started chipping around on the side, and she found out about it?

    Boxer

  67. EmpireHasNoClothes says:

    2 Samuel 6:20 Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel today, who uncovered himself in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as on of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself! 21 And David said unto Michal, It was before the LORD, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel: therefore will I play before the LORD. 22 And I will yet be more vile than thus, and will be base in mine own sight: and of the maidservants which thou hast spoken of, of them shall I be had in honor. 23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child into the day of her death.

    I think this passage is useful for instruction. If you raise your daughter to be a princess like Saul and Anonymous Husband did, they will not respect those that the LORD puts in authority over them. The difference between a queen and a princess is that queens have children, and princesses do not.

    Also good to observe that solipsistic nature of fallen women hasn’t changed much. Michal is concerned about what David’s action say about her, and is unable to see beyond that.

  68. Pingback: Married Hoez: Always a Terrible Bargain – v5k2c2

  69. Boxer says:

    @Trust:

    Thanks for posting your story. I commented here, because it wasn’t really appropriate to this venue:
    https://v5k2c2.wordpress.com/2017/12/08/married-hoez-always-a-terrible-bargain/

    NSFW for most Dalrock readers.

    Best,

    Boxer

  70. earlthomas786 says:

    Actually, we are discerning. Those of us with any dignity don’t have sex with married chicks (and we do our due diligence before we initiate, to make sure she’s not pretending availability). We don’t want to have sex with crazy chicks. Most of us don’t want to have sex with single moms (too much crazy to justify).

    Perhaps you are an exception. I doubt a lot of them are discerning…they could care less about marital status, single motherhood, or crazy. They just want the hook up. Case in point, how promiscuous that group of women are.

  71. Damn Crackers says:

    @Boxer –

    Any good Marxist pick up lines? “Hey, ever read any Plekhanov?”

  72. Anonymous Reader says:

    Let’s all remember that the self-esteem movement arose in California in the 1990’s as a result of shoddy research: it was discovered that school-aged children, especially in high school, who had high self esteem were less likely to do drugs, more likely to finish school, less likely to be involved in gangs, etc. and so forth. The conclusion? Just increase student’s self esteem and they’d all become better people!

    A classic example of confusing correlation with causation. Because it’s the “don’t do drugs”, “diligently do schoolwork”, “stay away from gangs” way of living that led to the higher self esteem. The Special Snowflakes of today who are so delicate that any and everything many offend them? They are the direct result of the Self Esteem programs. Remember, the SJW’s are the extreme example of Special Snowflakes, so we can point to the Self Esteem movement as the major cause of SJW’s. No surprise that SJW’s are liars; they’ve been lied to continuously for the sake of their fragile “self esteem” from birth, so lies and lying are normalized to them.

    As thedeti pointed out this foolish concempt is now embedded into the theraputic culture, so it should not suprise any of us that the conservative feminists embrace it. Heck, even regular conservatives now accept it, in their usual “sea-anchor” fashion of “conserving” liberal errors from 20+ years ago.

    The “self esteem” of today is an empty, “I Am Special, Look At Me!” emotional state that requires constant inputs and constant self-delusion and therefore constant lies to maintain. It is the antithesis of the emotional security that a truly confident person possesses. “Self Esteem” is fake. Just like “mah Daddy’s red dot”, in fact, is empty, fake and a lie. Coincidence?

    The latest troll “Michael” has left the building, so we can’t expect her to explain any of this “self esteem is magic, just wear the T-shirt and girls will have it” nonsense that she was babbling yesterday. Not a real loss, though, because she just isn’t very good at trolling.

  73. Oscar says:

    @ Anonymous Reader says:
    December 8, 2017 at 12:16 pm

    “A classic example of confusing correlation with causation.”

    Clearly, the solution is to give them all good grades and diplomas, and remove all social stigma from drugs, gangs, etc.

  74. earlthomas786 says:

    The “self esteem” of today is an empty, “I Am Special, Look At Me!” emotional state that requires constant inputs and constant self-delusion and therefore constant lies to maintain. It is the antithesis of the emotional security that a truly confident person possesses. “Self Esteem” is fake. Just like “mah Daddy’s red dot”, in fact, is empty, fake and a lie. Coincidence?

    George Carlin did an excellent bit on how the self-esteem movement was a failure. One thing he pointed out is this…

    “The Self-Esteem Movement began in 1970 and I’m happy to say it’s been a complete failure because studies have repeatedly shown that having high self-esteem does not improve grades, does not increase career achievement, does not limit the use of alcohol, and certainly does not reduce the incidence of violence of any sort because as it turns out, extremely aggressive, violent people think very highly of themselves.”

  75. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    The self-esteem movement goes at least as far back as 1969, with the publication of Nathaniel Branden’s The Psychology of Self Esteem.

    Branden’s Wikipedia page credits him as “Founder of self-esteem movement in psychology,” though Wikipedia is less than reliable. Branden or his followers might have written his page.

    Branden was a Jewish atheist. He was also Ayn Rand’s illicit lover, and Second in Command in Rand’s Objectivist Movement, until his ouster in 1968 (when Rand caught Branden sleeping with yet another illicit lover).

    I read Branden’s book in the early 1980s. He does the usual religion bashing, typical of Objectivists. He wrote that religion provides a “sham self-esteem” by encouraging people to imagine that a powerful supernatural being approves of them.

    So in some ways, the modern self-esteem movement is rooted in Randian atheism.

  76. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Here’s a joke I heard back in the 1980s or 1990s.

    Many California students were failing their courses. So the schools introduced a self-esteem program. Students are still failing their courses. But now they feel good about it.

  77. Sigma Frame says:

    Earl, they obviously missed the kingdom of heaven, so they naturally misappropriate the interpretation reflexively.

  78. freebird says:

    Oh they may learn to resist Harley MacBadboy,but none will resist Chad.
    Tingles uber alles.

    Summation: Lack of discipline
    Who can give discipline to someone they’ve made The Master?

  79. Sigma Frame says:

    Earl, I think you might be on to something here.

  80. Anonymous Reader says:

    Earl
    as it turns out, extremely aggressive, violent people think very highly of themselves.”

    This is true. It’s been documented in research. I personally know some men who have done counseling / educational work in prisons and they have confirmed this. True psychopaths have a very high self-regard.

    Red Pill Latecomer
    The self-esteem movement goes at least as far back as 1969, with the publication of Nathaniel Branden’s The Psychology of Self Esteem.

    So in some ways, the modern self-esteem movement is rooted in Randian atheism.

    Ah-ha. That is very interesting. Thanks.

  81. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Another woman instigating a fight between two men: https://www.thestage.co.uk/news/2017/theatre-producer-punched-asking-audience-member-stop-using-phone/

    A theatre producer watching a West End show claims he was punched by a fellow audience member after challenging him over the use of a mobile phone during the performance.

    Adam Gale, from New York, alleges he was “hauled” out of his seat during the interval of A Christmas Carol at the Old Vic and struck with a closed fist, following an altercation that happened during the first act of the play.

    Gale says he had witnessed a woman using her mobile throughout the first act, and had asked her to stop. He eventually sought help from an usher, who intervened.

    However, when the first act finished, Gale claims he was approached by the woman’s partner, a male in his 30s, who pulled him from his seat and struck him, while being “egged on” by the female.

  82. Yet Another Commenter, Yet Another Comment ("Yac-Yac") says:

    Language.

    If words don’t in fact have actual (specific) meanings, then why bother blogging, or reading blogs?

    Take, for example, the supposedly conventional Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Sigma & Omega. I write, “the supposedly conventional” , because conventional (< Latin, com- [=with] + venere [to come]) means: we’ve all “come together”, in agreement about the meanings of these terms. Plainly we (in the Androsphere) haven’t. [And, also, what the h3ll happened to “Delta”??]

    From the comments here and on the last, I dunno, seven or eight of Dalrock‘s posts, and, frankly, in the posts and comments in any of the many Manosphere blogs (including dead ones), I have seen the terms “consistently” (heh) being used to mean whatever the writer means for them to mean. Sometimes the commenter (or blogger) explains, sometimes you can guess, even though they don’t explain, — and sometimes, it’s impossible to tell what they mean, exactly. And, I think this matters. How can we talk about this important stuff, using words with slippery meanings?

    For example, is “Alpha”, a matter of attitude and “game”? OK, so did Neil Strauss go from Gamma to Alpha then back down to Beta (or whatever)? Don’t you “get Game” and so “become Alpha” — i.e., isn’t the Red-Pilling a one way trip? But if so, then how does one make sense of the writers who talk of a man’s SMV/MMV status (“born Alpha”, whatever) as if it were permanent and life long, despite Red-Pilling (“I was always a Beta …”; “He’s a natural Alpha”; — or whatever)? Is a Red-Pilled Beta with Game going to do better with women, than a Blue-Pilled Alpha? Which of the two men is the happier? This isn’t a trivial question.

    Similarly: an “Alpha”, because women decide so? Or do women decide “so”, because he is already Alpha? Can’t be both. Causation is a b!tch. But I’ve seen (and you will all undoubtedly have seen) arguments and flame wars over this difference in usage, arising because the two or three participants don’t even mean the same thing (about causation) when they write, “Alpha”.

    Is a man an “Alpha”, by mere socioeconomic status? In other words, $100K+/y = α? What about $250K/y — more “Alpha” still? What if the second guy is pulling in the extra cash because he’s putting in longer hours, and so never has time to see any women, ever? Is he still “Alpha”, then? What if he says “to h3ll with it”, tells the boss to stuff it, and goes to San Diego to surf and get laid? No money, plenty of women: “Alpha”, still? Really? A complete reversal of lifestyle and attitude, and he’s still in the same status/attitude bin? Useless binning system, I say.

    Harley McBad@ss, earning $27,000 greasing tires at the local auto-shop, and banging two or three different thots/groupies every weekend from whatever bars/concerts/churches he goes to, is hardly “Alpha” in any sense that also applies at the same time to James Quincy McInheritance III, who just made partner at age 27 at Daddy’s law firm, and is constantly in the harpoon sights of (and pumping and dumping) any number of UMC husband-hunters who cross his path (or, I suppose, he, theirs).

    Similarly, as various commenters here have pointed out (in at least a couple of cases, from their direct life experience), in Silicon Valley you can be pulling down $250K/y and yet still be invisible to the women, such that you’re (or so the usage tends to go), “Beta”. Meanwhile, a dumpster-diving Schizo is gettin’ sweet lovin’ beneath the underpass which that same “Beta” crosses every morning as he commutes to work in his $75K SUV. Apparently, Omega is Alpha, — or whatever.

    I see attempts to end-run around this terminology problem, with language such as “Greater Beta”.

    SFAICT, that’s when the commenter is referring to a pear-shaped man with a six-figure income (example). If Alpha & Beta meant something in the first place, there would be no need for any verbal end-runs.

    (And so on …)

    I see no consistency in the use of the terms — not just here, but across the entire Androsphere.

    It undercuts the utility of replying to someone else’s comment, where they’ve used one of these Greek-alphabet-letter ranking tropes — if the reason one disagrees with them, is they aren’t using the word to mean whatever it is one uses it to mean, oneself.

    I could point out specific examples in this very thread [including Troll-speak examples], but I don’t think that would be fair to whoever I pick on, and in any case you all probably see them all, already.

    It’s just bin buggin’ the h3ll outta me. Thanks for letting me vent. 🙂

    Pax Christi Vobiscum

  83. Boxer says:

    Any good Marxist pick up lines? “Hey, ever read any Plekhanov?”

    Wimminz don’t read philosophy, for the same reason they don’t do math or physics.

  84. Boxer says:

    Another woman instigating a fight between two men

    You can sometimes learn a lot from pop psych.
    In some cases outsiders perform a different function. They force the game on an unwilling White because they want to play ‘Let’s You and Him Fight.’ They put her in such a position that in order to save her face or her reputation she has to cry rape. This is particularly apt to happen with girls under the legal age of consent; they may be quite willing to continue a liaison, but because it is discovered or made an issue of, they feel constrained to turn the romance into a game of Third-Degree ‘Rapo.’

    Much more at…
    http://www.heretical.com/games/rapo.html

  85. Robert What? says:

    Am I the only one who thinks Griffith’s words sound more like the serpent?

  86. earlthomas786 says:

    Am I the only one who thinks Griffith’s words sound more like the serpent?

    The thing I pointed out in a previous thread…was what Jesus said the great pearl is (the kingdom of Heaven) and what women like Griffith say it is (women or themselves). It is the classic case of trying to remove the one true God and convincing themselves (with the serpent’s influence) they are the god.

  87. PokeSalad says:

    Any good Marxist pick up lines? “Hey, ever read any Plekhanov?”

    Perhaps it works best in a Geneva cafe, circa 1915?

  88. Isa says:

    Teen girls are highly fragile, which is why they are protected by their fathers. They are filled with hormones, no life experience, and an as yet completely formed brain. Just as teen boys, they ought to be expected to make foolish decisions that completely derail any chance of a decent life. A teen girl may be able to escape the herd groupthink and intense pressure to the mean consisting of acting like an unpaid prostitute, but that is a rare creature indeed.

    As to how a girl can escape from the vortex, ASD or high functioning autism certainly helps, as does being much more interested in things than people. “Self esteem” in the sense of valuing what she can offer to the world rather than pride in traits she cannot control (ie beauty) may help, but it is certainly no guarantee unless she can confidently not care what her peers think of her. Very, very few of the female sex are like that.

  89. feeriker says:

    Am I the only one who thinks Griffith’s words sound more like the serpent?

    I certainly hope not. It’s painfully obvious to anyone who reads or listens to her for more than a microsecond.

  90. Just Saying says:

    t women are attracted to bad boys because they lack self esteem

    Nope… Women are excited by bad-boys. Women live protected lives, so anything that is dangerous is exciting – as long as she knows she’s protected. She gets that from the bad-boy as long as he’s f**king her – plain and simple. Women are easy to understand. One of the fastest ways to get the girl that is a challenge into bed if to shy-dive with her. Be sure to have an RV close by, as she’ll be riding you like a bronco almost before you hit the ground.

    I’ve done a lot of things in life, and I use all of them to bed the ones I want. But you always have to “prime the pump”: by keeping quality, young women coming to you. There are lots of ways to do that, you have to find what works for you, and change it with time. The things I did at 20 won’t work now that I’m in my 50’s – but they all work. A woman that wants you makes excuses to herself for why she’s attracted to you and you don’t have to. Women are convenient that way… Most of the women I date these days are young enough to be my daughter – that’s fine by me, and sure they will want to “hide” it – that works even better as then you’re the “forbidden fruit”… Just enjoy and play it to your advantage. It’s all good…

  91. Yet Another Commenter, Yet Another Comment ("Yac-Yac") says:

    @ Red Pill Latecomer (December 8, 2017 at 1:09 pm, who writes:

    The self-esteem movement goes at least as far back as 1969, with the publication of Nathaniel Branden’s The Psychology of Self Esteem.

    […] Branden was a Jewish atheist. He was also Ayn Rand’s illicit lover, and Second in Command in Rand’s Objectivist Movement, until his ouster in 1968 (when Rand caught Branden sleeping with yet another illicit lover). […]” (etc.)

    Not quite. And the details matter.

    First of all, “Jewish atheist”?!? As opposed to what? An “Evangelical Christian Atheist”? I suppose you mean “Jewish atheist”, the way you could describe Betrand Russell, Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins as “English atheists”, but the expression “Jewish atheist” has always struck me as really odd.

    Anyway, that’s not the important part. There are two inaccuracies in your comment: …

    First of all, Branden was kicked out of the “Objectivist movement” because he had, in the past, been Ayn Rand’s lover, and they had broken it off, and several years later she wanted to start it up again, and Nathaniel Branden said, “no”. And, his reason was, he was involved with someone else. And the difference matters, because it cuts to the character of Nathaniel Branden: honorable? Or not?

    Secondly, Branden didn’t just write one book on self esteem, he wrote about a dozen. And, this matters, too, because in the later ones he is highly critical of the entire “Self-esteem Movement”. Yes, he coined the phrase — but then the Californication Public (i.e., Communist, heh) School System grabbed the expression, and ran with it, leaving Branden’s intended meaning in the cultural dumpster as they did so.

    Branden’s definition of “self-esteem” was, “the awareness that you are competent and worthy to live”. That’s it. No navel gazing involved, no special snowflakes in sight. Note that, so far as Branden is concerned, self-awareness is a prerequisite; one of his criticisms of the Oprah-fied thing that skinned his idea so as to dress in its hide, is that it is anti-awareness. A second point he makes (in criticizing the Modern “self-esteem” movement”), is that it is about feelings. To Branden, if you have low self-esteem (in the sense he originally meant), it is your subconscious telling you you need to get working on that whole “competent to live” thing. So, its about work you need to do on your own skills and character. Which is close to the polar opposite of “Feelz”.

    Having read all his books on the topic (except that sentence-completion workbook thingy), I feel obliged to say in his defense that he is right: the modern “Self Esteem” movement has nothing at all to do with, and in many ways is an explicit contradiction of, his own ideas about the topic.

    Agree with or disagree with his ideas as you like, but don’t hold him responsible for what Left Coast popular culture and the Communist/New Age/Blue State freaks have done under the banner of “Self Esteem”.

    Pax Christi Vobiscum

  92. Jason says:

    Yac Yac

    Agreed, and thank you for putting into words in a way I just could not.

    When I hear “guy is an Alpha” and he’s in a local rock band, lives in a van, has five kids……cannot support a girl….but beds good looking young women….we guys call this an “alpha” for some crazed reason.

    A man like my grandfather is labeled a ‘chump’ or some ‘beta’ because he married his girlfriend, had an average working class job his whole life. Raised his kids…..but he lived through the Great Depression and survived a Japanese POW camp. To me, that is a billion more “alpha” that the first example of the guy in the local rock band.

    Most alpha’s don’t need to brag about how they are one. They just are

  93. pb says:

    “While I do think the feminine is deliberately overcompensating for what is actually low self-esteem, they don’t necessarily want to bump their heads up against narcissism, conceit and being “stuck up bitches” either. ”

    What they think is low self-esteem is deference to male authority figures and respect for men as a class.

  94. Gunner Q says:

    @YAC-YAC and Jason,

    I too am frustrated at seeing the Alpha-Omega system of sexual ranking be conflated with personal worth and morality. Unfortunately, this sort of thing has been the norm for all of human history and will never change. Do you bed a lot of women? You’re a paragon of good behavior! Are you a blood-soaked tyrant? You’re an excellent politician! Do you work the late shift keeping the lights on? Ugh, thank God I didn’t end up like you, chump, all useful to society and such.

    People admire those they want to be like. Lothario wins, engineering loses.

    Hmm… a solution appears… let me think.

  95. Novaseeker says:

    I too am frustrated at seeing the Alpha-Omega system of sexual ranking be conflated with personal worth and morality. Unfortunately, this sort of thing has been the norm for all of human history and will never change. Do you bed a lot of women? You’re a paragon of good behavior!

    Hmm. Is anyone really saying it’s a paragon of “moral” behavior? I think the taxonomy arose from men trying to figure out why guys who are “leaders” in other areas of life (career, intellect, achievement in general) are undershooting or failing with women in comparison to that. So a taxonomy was discerned that described “success with women” as its own category, to be distinguished from “success at business” or “success at achievement” or what have you, because these were clearly now distinct things. We’ve talked a lot about *why* these are distinct things, but they are distinct things anyway. So the taxonomy of who is a “sexual alpha” or a “good with women alpha” is distinct from someone who may be a “battlefield alpha” or a “workplace alpha” — they’re not the same thing, because they describe different areas of competition and success. None of it is moral in itself — neither the workplace alpha nor the sexual alpha is more moral because he is more successful. But if you want to be successful in business you may want to look at what the workplace alpha is doing, and if you want to be successful with women you may want to look at what the sexual alpha is doing — in each case, of course, tailoring to your own moral convictions in the end. But it makes sense to distinguish the different kinds of success because today they often do NOT overlap in any meaningful way. This is why when people throw around the word “alpha”, it’s always important to talk about what area they are discussing — is it women, sex, leadership, spirituality, business, athletics, what is it? They’re not the same and they don’t always overlap today. That is the point.

  96. Gunner Q says:

    “Is anyone really saying it’s a paragon of “moral” behavior?”

    Of course they don’t say it, any more than they demand a butcher of human life for a leader. The male id chases sex & violence and uses them as proxies for success in other areas. Being a good idea has nothing to do with human instincts.

    The US Constitution doesn’t require a body count for the Presidency but look at how many Presidents were generals. It’s way more than would randomly happen. That’s because generals commanding armies hold the voter’s attention span better than businessmen commanding widget factories. Not because anybody seriously asked “is he violent enough to order me around?”

  97. earl says:

    Perhaps paragon of moral behavior is the wrong term. Many seem to think if you can bed a lot of women your are more masculine than your peers. If you can kill more of your enemies…you are more masculine than your peers. If you are a cubicle slave or a nerd…you are less masculine than your peers.

  98. Trust says:

    Sad thing is, the more you build up a modern girl’s self esteem, the more she thinks she’s so special that she’ll keep Mr. Harley McBadboy. So it is actually counter productive. What conventional wisdom tell us, that she’ll think “she deserves better,” actually translates into “she’ll get better from him.”

    This is also the mindset that causes women to wreck an honest husbands life, tear apart a family and strip him of his kids and assets, and then say “it’s for the best”

  99. seventiesjason says:

    Look. I’ll never be half the man my maternal grandfather was. Grew up in a poor household. His parents never spoke or learned English. Was drafted into the British Army, deployed with the 53rd Infantry to defend “Crown & Empire”in Malaysia. Watched his over 10,000 in his regiment killed in ’41-’42.
    Captured in Singapore, herded with 15,000 fellow Brits and other natives defending ” the Crown” into a POW camp.

    In his camp, of the 15,000 brought in durin 1942 only 1,500 or so lived to return home. Most were starved, beaten, tortured and everyone else got sick and died.

    He gets home. Marries a girl. Lives honestly and quietly. Stays married. Works hard and didn’t need a gold star or therapy pet or empathy. He just was a nameless, faceless Subject who did what he was told and was 100x a man than all this self esteem, chest thumping and Greek classification if what type of real man he was.

    Countless stories here by posters of men in their lives who were real men by their duty to work, family, country and livelihood.’Nuff said.

  100. Son of Liberty says:

    Trust says:
    December 7, 2017 at 6:10 pm

    I seriously wonder if the false religion of Revelation 18 is feminism. I would have laughed at the idea a few years back, but the shoe does seem to fit. I cannot think of anything else that is this great of a false doctrine or more religiously followed dogma than this, there are literally people sitting in jail today whose crime was to blaspheme feminism.

    No, Revelation 1:1 states that this book was given in a symbolical encrypted manner, and not literal. Revelation 18 (praise God), will be the final destruction of the Great Whore responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions of saints, Christians, since 313AD including the Church of Pagan Rome (pre 313AD) during Jesus’ times, and that is the Roman Catholic Church along with its daughter harlot creations like Islam, created by the Vatican in the 7th century where the Quran was written by Catholic priests, as well as lukewarm idolatrous orthodox and modern day “protestant” denominations that has bowed down to the papacy and implemented Vatican doctrine, etc

    Revelation 18 – Mystery Babylon Harlot Destroyed

    I think what you are looking for is the Jezebel Spirit, classical demonic behavior that takes a hold of and posses the female body.

    MGTOW – Jezebel | Jezebel Spirit & Borderline Personality Disorder

  101. Son of Liberty says:

    Boxer says:
    December 8, 2017 at 10:04 am

    Bad boys approach and go for it, whereas good boys stand by the wall and wait their turn like compliant little automatons.

    This is 99% of the problem.

    Boys following 1 Corinthians 6:18 are automatons? We have found the problem, 1 Corinthians is a problem fellas, we must get rid of this verse!

  102. earlthomas786 says:

    Boys following 1 Corinthians 6:18 are automatons? We have found the problem, 1 Corinthians is a problem fellas, we must get rid of this verse!

    If your intent of the approach is to give into sexual immorality…you are right.

    If your intent is to see if the woman is potential marriage material…you have to make the approach and initiate. Women aren’t going to do it for you.

  103. Hypergamy doesn’t care about being “surrounded by love” of esteem building Christian Betas.

  104. Kevin says:

    The truth, that none of have worth outside of Christ’s mercy for us, is no fun to contemplate.

  105. Luke7 says:

    Son of Liberty says:
    December 10, 2017 at 11:52 am
    Trust says:
    December 7, 2017 at 6:10 pm

    “No, Revelation 1:1 states that this book was given in a symbolical encrypted manner, and not literal. Revelation 18 (praise God), will be the final destruction of the Great Whore responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions of saints…

    NFW IMO is that accurate. Saints are by definition VERY unusual, atypical, relatively rare people, in all times. To say that “hundreds of millions” of people could qualify for that term is alter its definition beyond all reason, akin to the feminists saying that a man “raped her with a glance”, or that a husband “abused” a wife by not going along with his wife spending the rent money on a new dress (that she’ll only wear when with other pampered, whiny, SAH child-neglecting wives). This is one (of many) objections I have to the Mormons; at best, IMO, not even 5% of a large group of Christians could possibly legitimately be deemed “saints”, even if they were all Christian. (Since the Mormons aren’t Christian, being polytheists, denying the Trinity, denying the supremacy of the Bible, saying that salvation is via works not faith, etc., that means that NO Mormons are saints, of course.)

  106. Son of Liberty says:

    You serious? I couldn’t care less for what doctrine of men or institution defines “saints” or how culture in the past hundreds/thousands of years has sugarcoated the word saint.

    Revelation 14:12 KJV – Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    Deuteronomy 33:3 KJV – Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.

    Psalms 30:4 – Sing unto the LORD, O ye saints of his, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.

    Tonnes more verses as well, describing any believer of Jesus to be a saint. Now we could argue if Wendy Griffith is a saint or not, we are not to judge her as we have no authority over her soul. The bible is clear, no need for men and or Rome to “appoint” a painting of someone.

  107. Son of Liberty says:

    Well Mormonism was started by a Freemason Joseph Smith, and eventually led by Young, led and guided by De Smet, Jesuit Priest, no surprises there. CBN is full of them, and Wendy Griffith does an exceptional job leading American ladies astray in that false network.

  108. Luke7 says:

    SOL, once again someone clearly utterly misses the entire point of the “don’t judge, lest ye be judged” verse. No surprise, since it is probably the most misunderstood sentence in the Bible.

    It does NOT mean not to clearly assess another person’s character and behavior. We’re commanded, in fact, not to closely associate with the unsaved, other than to witness Christ to them. Rather, it means not to carry out sentence a court might pass down (typically, in old times, execution for serious stuff). A proper court is the one supposed to do that (and they ARE supposed to do that — Leviticus and witches, and all that).

    Likewise, when someone smugly references the chapter in the New Testament where Jesus comes upon the scene of a properly-convicted adulteress about to be legally stoned to death for her crime? Jesus said “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. What I think should have happened, was for the guy nearest Him to say to him, “Well, Jesus, if you wanted to go first, all you had to do was say so”, and hand Him a particularly large rock. Then, however it was propelled from His hand (hurled accurately, dropped like a liberal confronting accepting blame, whatever), the other men present could have taken care of the rest of carrying out the proper judgement of the court. A righteous outcome.

  109. Luke7 says:

    Oh, and re ANY believer in Christ qualifying as a saint? Please tell me of ONE Christian (I did NOT say Mormon, or other obvious heretical cult) organization of any size in, say, the past thousand years that believed that. The Catholics certainly don’t, nor does any Protestant denomination I know anything about.

  110. TBeholder says:

    Gah. The “insight” in the title is so beside the point. It’s not even a theory, just pouting.
    But why wouldn’t she “tingle for Harley McBadboy”? Even not counting possible “badboy” specific biological reasons…
    He may be not someone with whom you or me would want to hang out for a friendly chat. Though we don’t really know even this. Why would anyone expect this to matter? In the generic caveman criteria, that guy already scores a lot of points! He’s a leader of other men – and quite obviously this always counts. He is brave. Her relatives can neither hold their own nor give up, but at least have enough of guts to tag along on what looks like a rough ride. Well, this guy is not tagging along with someone he doesn’t trust like an air balloon, but rather goes where he wants. Or at least seems to do so. And it’s hard to believe he can act stupider than these two and stay alive for as much as 6 years while driving anything faster than a wheelbarrow, much less showing off on the least safe class of vehicles around.
    What do you think this comparison should tell her other than “hey, a step up”?
    Also, in this particular case is Harley McBadboy really a horrible choice? Perhaps his prospects are dubious, but after all, he is still with her and the air still didn’t land up in a jail (or hospital). Which is more than can be said…

    Assuming all this circus happened at all. For one, the original article (on 9news.com.au to which all copypasta links) vanished.

    > The secular left teaches that self esteem should come from group membership.
    And even this somehow managed to slip lower. Remember? «We are great. We are free. We are wonderful. We are the most wonderful people in all the jungle! We all say so, and so it must be true» Who knew the Bandar-log of all things could get more pathetic? Who could imagine tumblrinas?

  111. Son of Liberty says:

    @Luke7
    Well we do have to humble ourselves, and it is particularly difficult to call myself a “saint” as a believer, it truly is, I understand that.

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