Gotta ask the boss, Christian edition.

In the discussion of Gotta ask the boss, commenter AnonS described a man up group he found via his local mega church:

Local mega church had a small group listing for a ‘radical men’s mentoring group’ that I emailed for more information about. This church is non-dom but quite conservative for the area; forbids female teachers and gives lip service to submission when it comes up.

The ‘radical men’s mentoring group’ send out an email that required the married men to get a signed permission slip from their wives in order to attend. I replied that I was no longer interested.

Based on what AnonS shared, I was able to find a link to the Men’s Radical Mentoring Mentee Covenant, which does indeed require the wife to give her husband permission to participate in the program (emphasis mine):

9. I discussed this commitment with my wife and she fully supports my involvement. She willingly relinquishes the time it will take to attend the sessions and retreats and to do the reading and homework, with the goal of my becoming a godlier man.

Note that this is the same approach Dennis Rainey takes with his Stepping Up® program (emphasis mine).

Bob: So, I‟m thinking of a wife who is planning for that weekend. She’s got the option of either her husband, on Saturday, doing all the projects around the house so that he can watch the game on Sunday; or she can send him to the Stepping Up® Super Saturday event, down at the church, that’s happening in their community. We’ve got hundreds of churches that are participating in this; but she’s not going to get any “Honey, do” lists done that day. What would your counsel to her be, Dennis?

Dennis: Give up the “Honey, do” list for a day.

Men are sold on the program with the promise of finally becoming a respected man:

This is man stuff!  Finally, I’ll become a man!

But those who market to conservative Christians know that wives are firmly in the driver’s seat in modern Christian marriage.  The husband isn’t the decision maker, and his thoughts don’t matter very much.  What matters is what the boss thinks.  To sell their books, videos, programs, etc, they need to appeal directly to the head of the modern Christian family, the wife.  The first thing they need to do is reassure the wife that no matter how much they talk about believing in the Bible and biblical roles, they have absolutely no intention of challenging the feminist status quo.  The ever present danger of a man up program is that the men might in fact man up.  Coming to the wife upfront and formally asking her permission reassures the wife that nothing biblical is at risk of happening during the Christian man up program.

Nagging by proxy.

Having assuaged the wife’s understandable fear, the next thing the man up program salesmen need to do is convince the wife to order her husband to attend/participate.  To do this, they need to convince her that the lost time bossing her husband around will be worth it, since the goal of the program is to rework her husband to her liking.  She needs to know that

  1.  Someone else will be filling the void, bossing her husband around during the time she isn’t able to do so.
  2. The people bossing her husband around in her absence will be able to be more effective in molding her husband into the man she wants him to be.

Here is how Rainey made this part of the pitch:

I‟m actually encouraging you, as a wife, to look beyond the “Honey, do” list and beyond to making an investment in your husband‟s life—to encourage him, not discourage him— but encourage him to become the man God made him to be. If you send him down to the Stepping Up Super Saturday event—I can‟t guarantee this because he’s got a choice—he’s got a real choice, and some guys don’t make it; but a lot will.

Radical Mentoring founder and Chairman Regi Campbell gets the same message across in the preface to his book What Radical Husbands Do, 12 Steps to Win and Keep Your Wife’s Heart.

A Word to the Wives

I’ve been around long enough to know that women get real curious about books their men read, probably because we read less than you do. I have three things to say to the “maverick” wife who might be reading this, especially if you’re a wife who is hanging by a thread on the other end of a failing marriage…

If he’s coming to realize some of his “issues”…starting to accept them and take ownership…and there’s sincere humility and conviction in his heart, you’re an idiot to abandon this marriage. He’s on his way to becoming the man you wanted and thought you married to begin with. Give him some time and encouragement. What’s rewarded is repeated. You get what you glorify. So catch him when he does stuff right and brag on him…

Finally, if your marriage is in trouble, know your challenges will be forgiving and forgetting. You may be totally justified in throwing the bum out or taking off. What he’s done, what he’s said, his selfishness, his constant criticism…maybe all of the above…any rational woman would get out and start over. But now he’s ready to try…really try…really try to make things different. He’s been using different words. There’s an earnestness that hasn’t been there. If you see this kind of movement on his part, you’re smart to move toward him and see what comes of it. After all, do you really want to start over and train another hardheaded man to be a decent husband? It’s so much better for you, the kids, your folks, for everyone, if this marriage becomes rock solid.

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149 Responses to Gotta ask the boss, Christian edition.

  1. Hmm says:

    It would be very interesting to look in on the households that sent men to one of these classes a year later to verify the increase in wifely happiness. I wonder if such figures are available

  2. feministhater says:

    Finally, if your marriage is in trouble, know your challenges will be forgiving and forgetting. You may be totally justified in throwing the bum out or taking off. What he’s done, what he’s said, his selfishness, his constant criticism…maybe all of the above…any rational woman would get out and start over. But now he’s ready to try…really try…really try to make things different. He’s been using different words. There’s an earnestness that hasn’t been there. If you see this kind of movement on his part, you’re smart to move toward him and see what comes of it. After all, do you really want to start over and train another hardheaded man to be a decent husband? It’s so much better for you, the kids, your folks, for everyone, if this marriage becomes rock solid.

    Being a wife is just so hard. Why do women even demean themselves? Just look at the hardships they have to endure. I’ve listened ladies, I’ve taken your message to heart, and I will not be putting any woman through such disgusting and unendurable hardships on my behalf. Loud and clear. Loud and clear.

  3. Matamoros says:

    How about a “Radical Wives Mentoring Group” where wives and other women can learn to be submissive wives, in the context of a good wife is a good Christian?

    Make the women get permission slips from their husbands to attend, and if unmarried from their father.

  4. earlthomas786 says:

    Finally, if your marriage is in trouble, know your challenges will be forgiving and forgetting. You may be totally justified in throwing the bum out or taking off. What he’s done, what he’s said, his selfishness, his constant criticism…maybe all of the above…any rational woman would get out and start over.

    Now play the ‘switch the sexes’ game with that paragraph and see if that is more true in today’s marriages. Only the women will do that and still pull the cord because it’s the rebellion/hypergamy tendencies in their heart that is often the problem. Hence things like MGTOW or men seeing single life is not so bad.

  5. Pingback: Gotta ask the boss, Christian edition. | @the_arv

  6. SnapperTrx says:

    “He’s on his way to becoming the man you wanted and thought you married to begin with. Give him some time and encouragement. ”

    Why the hell did you marry him in the first place?

    “After all, do you really want to start over and train another hardheaded man to be a decent husband?”

    Bam. The telltale sentence right there. A wife’s job is not to train her husband, rather the other way around. A wife should be conforming to her husband, as his helpmeet, in order to help him achieve his goals. I guess that only applies to ‘doormat’ wives, though. The wife who is doing this is not a wife but a mother, and most husbands already have (or had) a mother or two (mil), they don’t need a spare.

  7. truth teller says:

    “The wife who is doing this is not a wife but a mother, and most husbands already have (or had) a mother or two (mil), they don’t need a spare.”

    And most men nowadays were raised by a “single” mother with all the BS that entails. So having a second “mom” again would just compound the problems which is just how the evil left likes it.

  8. earlthomas786 says:

    The wife who is doing this is not a wife but a mother, and most husbands already have (or had) a mother or two (mil), they don’t need a spare.

    Yes modern marriage advice is to make the wife the mother of the husband. I can’t tell you how many social media posts where a wife has her husband and son(s) in a photo and she says they are ‘her boys’. I don’t know if it is a shot at the husband or she doesn’t even bother to acknowledge his presence in the photo but either way it’s not a flattering thing to say.

  9. SnapperTrx says:

    Ladies are all about the “radical for Jesus” so long as its radical enough to gain attention (mission trips, handing out food, holding babies with medical issues, etc.), but not radical enough as to be fully submissive and obedient to her husband, which gains her nothing in the eyes of others because no one will really see it and it doesn’t change her status with anyone. Eventually it would be noticed by those around her, but the instant reaction wouldn’t be a hearty “praise God” or “Amen” but rather a “why are you a doormat?”, “don’t you think for yourself?” or “that seems a little excessive, doesn’t it?”.

  10. Jonadab-the-Rechabite says:

    Learn how to worship your wife, learn how her feelings are the standard for life and practice, learn how to serve her as a servant-leader which you will be eunuch-ly positioned to do. Learn how to beg forgiveness for possessing a penis and learn why testosterone is a devil’s drug.

    Sign me up, where do I leave my testicles? At the door or with my wife?

  11. Daniel says:

    Give him some time and encouragement. What’s rewarded is repeated. You get what you glorify. So catch him when he does stuff right and brag on him…

    Regi Campbell clearly views the wife as Matriarch, and the husband as child in need of training.

    You may be totally justified in throwing the bum out or taking off. What he’s done, what he’s said, his selfishness, his constant criticism…maybe all of the above…any rational woman would get out and start over.

    Campbell is blatantly justifying divorce if she thinks her husband is lazy, selfish, or critical. He tries to rule his home, she calls it “constant criticism,” and she is now totally justified in throwing him out of his own home.

    After all, do you really want to start over and train another hardheaded man to be a decent husband?

    Another reference to wife as mother and husband as child to be reared. Plus the appeal is only to the woman’s selfishness in having a well trained man to serve her, no appeal to vows or scriptural imperatives.

  12. BillyS says:

    I am amazed how bad they are. I used to listen to FLToday all the time in the past. Either they have gotten much worse or I just see it more. I would have just ignored such things before I suppose, since I was not going to be a patsy for my wife, but this stuff is over the top (or shark jumping).

    probably because we read less than you do

    Hardly. My exwife wouldn’t read any book I gave her, even when she said she would. I am not reading as many books now, but I read far more than most women in my normal life. I don’t know that many men are like that, but claiming women read more is ignorant. They can’t read and watch TV after all….

  13. BillyS says:

    You may be totally justified in throwing the bum out or taking off. What he’s done, what he’s said, his selfishness, his constant criticism…maybe all of the above…any rational woman would get out and start over.

    Also remember that “constant” just means she ignored everything else that was said and only focused on things she could directly take offense against or twist to be offensive. Reality is irrelevant in cases like that.

  14. PokeSalad says:

    50SOG doesn’t count as “reading more.”

  15. RPC says:

    The first thing they need to do is reassure the wife that no matter how much they talk about believing in the Bible and biblical roles, they have absolutely no intention of challenging the feminist status quo. The ever present danger of a man up program is that the men might in fact man up. Coming to the wife upfront and formally asking her permission reassures the wife that nothing biblical is at risk of happening during the Christian man up program.

    It’s so much more insidious than the overt feminism in secular culture. It’s like a vaccination. By infecting the men with a “benign” strain of pseudo-patriarchy, the men become impervious to infection by actual, biblical patriarchy. How many men do we all know who think they are following the biblical model, but when when the rubber meets the road it’s actually false headship under the guise of servant leadership? Then, when you try to enlighten them, their eyes glaze over? The brain-cell receptor where biblical patriarchy should attach has been occupied by a malevolent impostor.

  16. earlthomas786 says:

    It’s a build a better feminist husband re-education camp and they slap a cross on it to get the Christians. They better go because ‘mommy’ told them to.

  17. One_more_awful_husband says:

    Finally, if your marriage is in trouble, know your challenges will be forgiving and forgetting. You may be totally justified in throwing the bum out or taking off. What he’s done, what he’s said, his selfishness, his constant criticism…maybe all of the above…any rational woman would get out and start over.

    I figure that I was totally justified in throwing her ass out after she started unrepentantly spreading her whore legs for two other men.

    But, it’s probably just because of the hardness of my heart that I divorced her. I just couldn’t forgive and forget that she wasn’t interested in changing her wicked way.

    I’m thinking in previous times, she’d have been stoned to death at the city gates, but then again, I’m probably reading those scriptures wrong.

  18. Anon says:

    So even the people who think they are radically pro-male are just feminist cucks.

    Do just enough to be hated by ‘feminists’, yet force the same ideology. Gee, no wonder cuckservatives are losers.

  19. Jew613 says:

    I’m trying to understand how is this supposed to be attractive to any man married or unmarried?

    If you’re married the message is you’re a mediocre slave who needs to know his place and kowtow to your master, the wife.

    If a man is single the message is surrender your freedom and identity to be a slave to a master who hates you. Why would anyone want this?

  20. Adam says:

    I just don’t know men like this any more. I can barely fathom all of this, let alone relate.

  21. RPC says:

    I’m trying to understand how is this supposed to be attractive to any man married or unmarried?

    It’s attractive to lesser betas and gammas because it’s a confirmation that their approach with women was correct all along, and alphas (and even some upper betas) are actually inferior men who discovered ways to entrance and manipulate women into acting against their true desires. This is why the church is a magnet for lower betas, and why alphas in the congregation are such a dire threat.

  22. Be right back, gonna go ask my mom if I can read this post.

  23. “I’m trying to understand how is this supposed to be attractive to any man married or unmarried?”

    It’s the path of least resistance. Living under oppression is easier, in the short term, than revolution.

  24. Pingback: Gotta ask the boss, Christian edition. — Dalrock | Whores and Ale

  25. RagingBeta says:

    I just prayed for self-control vs fornication, and now this. Screw it, burn it all down.

  26. earl says:

    I’m trying to understand how is this supposed to be attractive to any man married or unmarried?

    There’s a lot of men who have lived in a single/oppressive mother and weak to no father environment growing up. They probably don’t know any better.

  27. Opus says:

    Look on the brighter side: at least this men’s group has not as with the Scouts been invaded by women though I take the view that without independent legal advice this form would by any competent judge be set aside as not binding – and thus usable in any petition for Divorce as to the unreasonableness of the husband’s behaviour.

  28. Anon says:

    I’m trying to understand how is this supposed to be attractive to any man married or unmarried?

    Cuckservatism is a goddess cult, first and foremost.

  29. Anon says:

    Remember that the majority of men ARE like this already, so this is what they are used to, and they deserve what they get.

    Proof : The Jim Gay-ratty video for ‘Ward Cleaver is a Stud!’ has 4 times as many upvotes as downvotes.

  30. Fred Flange, GBFC (Great Books for Cucks) says:

    Pardon my ignoramus-ness but what is this “Radical” tag about? That just a marketing thing Campbell uses for his brand? And Radical vis a vis what? Free molecules having a positive valence?
    Perhaps “Moribund” is a more accurate tag. Fond as I am of jokes, I must say: I don’t get it.

  31. seventiesjason says:

    As a man I have been looking for a men’s fellowship that actually sits down, talks about things of God. Uses Scripture, debates and uplifts….not enables poor behavior…..I expect trust and truth. I want intelligent debate, and good ways in a Christian like fashion makes me strive to be a better man of God.

    All of them are praise music that is terrible, a sermon usually telling us what we are not doing enough of……football, football and more football talk / references because “men” play football.

    Or

    A workbook, study guide, and book written by a “famous” pastor or pastor and hishis amazing, gifted wife that is gonna make you the “man God called you to be”

    Boring. Culturally in true protestant fashion…..claiming to be current but twenty years behind the times….

    We Christian look silly and unattractive to women inside and outside the church.

    You’re not allowed to say anything because you are not “the pastor” who went to such and such seminary and you are not married…..so you must be a chump, a bore, ugly, gay or a guy who isn’t deemed a real man because he didn’t do a biological act……

    Tell them this? You’re bitter. You need to ask God for forgiveness…..

    Yet fewer and fewer men don’t want anything to do with church culture

  32. feeriker says:

    You may be totally justified in throwing the bum out or taking off.

    Dear Regi:

    Please cite, book, chapter and verse, the Scriptural references that back up the assertion of yours.

    We’ll wait.

  33. earl says:

    Please cite, book, chapter and verse, the Scriptural references that back up the assertion of yours.

    LOL.

    Jezebel 1:1

  34. Lost Patrol says:

    Nicely crafted Dalrock.

    Dennis Rainey

    Regi Campbell

    Tradcon churchmen of a certain age that were themselves married under version 1.0, and who are probably describing how their own wives and marriages operate with those demotivating words. They all need to retire yesterday.

  35. seventiesjason says:

    Lol @Lost Patrol

    Dennis couldn’t even smile for the camera. Real men don’t smile! He obviously was weened on a pickle.

    Regi reminds me of my prep school’s football coach. Paunchy, over the hill and his bratty grandson managed to get in over half of the photos of the “athelic” section of the yearbook.

    Look, appearances aside…if they were actually sitting down and talking toen instead of AT them or through their wives, maybe I’d give some cred….but we are talking modern church. Not gonna happen 🙂

  36. Anonymous Reader says:

    Real Peterman

    Be right back, gonna go ask my mom if I can read this post.

    What did she say?

  37. feeriker says:

    Rainey actually looks like he wants to cry in that picture. I would probably want to cry too if I was married to that contentious-piece-of-work wife of his.

  38. Dalrock says:

    @Matamoros

    How about a “Radical Wives Mentoring Group” where wives and other women can learn to be submissive wives, in the context of a good wife is a good Christian?

    Make the women get permission slips from their husbands to attend, and if unmarried from their father.

    Regi appears to have created a women’s version of the program titled Titus 2 Mentoring Women. The women’s mentee covenant looks like they took the men’s covenant and changed the logo, changed husband to wife where appropriate, and toned it down some. Instead of 9 points it only has 7. The final point is very similar:

    7. For married women: I have discussed this commitment with my husband and he fully
    supports my involvement. He willingly relinquished the time that I will need to attend
    the sessions and retreats and to do the reading and homework, with the goal of
    becoming a more godly woman, wife, and mother.

    I did a google search for the site for the word submission, since Titus 2 specifically says to teach wives to submit to their husbands. Two blog posts came back, but both were regarding submitting to God, not husbands. Even so, not surprisingly the blog is a ghost town. There has only been one comment on the last 20 blog posts (going back to the end of May). Not one comment for each post, but one comment total after 20 posts, over four and a half months. The men’s version is pretty sparse as it only averages about 2-3 comments per post, but clearly the women’s program has a much smaller following.

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  40. seventiesjason says:

    Any idea how much this program “costs”??? I am sure every man that attends with every church that decides to use it will have to buy a book, which in itself isn’t a crime. Is there a delux package that includes dvds, testimonies, workbooks, and discount for other “life changing” books by the writers or publisher? I am sure if your church forks over enough cool, fresh cash both of theses “amazing men” will come to your church and conduct a workshop of sorts

    I have a better idea. How about mens groups start using a book called “The Bible”?

  41. Darwinian Arminian says:

    @Opus
    Look on the brighter side: at least this men’s group has not as with the Scouts been invaded by women . . .

    It’s actually a step or two even worse than that. The fact that all the men in attendance will be their only because their wives granted them written permission which then had to be verified by the group’s leaders shows you who the final authority over the group really is: The wives. Who cares that they don’t have membership in the group, when they’re already operating as it’s functional overseers? A weekend like the one Campbell or Rainey is selling to isn’t so much a men’s retreat or a weekend with friends as it is a sort of prisoner’s holiday where the convicted can engage in some pre-approved recreations — but only under the watchful eye of guards who will be quick to report any infraction of the rules back to their masters.

  42. Girlfielf says:

    Same. Not looking forward to the overall flamboyance of returning to church.

    Pastor Cuckold sayz:
    “Hey WHOAAHOWOWOAH, gang! Am I gonna have to break you two up?

    “Let me just explain to this little lady over here that you would have to be CAH-RAZY to not transform your slave laborer into an awesomegodly SLAVE ROBOT! Don’t worry, this doesn’t mean your feminism goes away AU CONTRAIRE! So, are we good? ????

    “Now, betahusband, you need to stop acting like a SHAM and a CLOWN! This could be YOUR ONE SHOT to be a real man who’s treated like an actual adult and gets to have real sex with HIS wife. Have you ever had sex with a real woman before? Well let me say, it’s not my cup of tea, OH, SNNNAP (see you at church, you naughty boy)!!!”

  43. Paniym says:

    I guess it’s time to throw in the towel for the modern church. The Church needs a good ass kicking before there will be any movement back to positive masculinity.

    The church is totally infiltrated by the feministas and the modern theology is totally corrupt as well. So my question is……….Why do we blindly blather on about a cause (reintroducing masculinity to the Church) that is piratically hopeless. Wouldn’t we better off just living our lives from a Red Pill perspective and serving God as best we can. Time to let the blind lead the blind and only work those who have a chance of seeing truth.

  44. Iowa Slim says:

    I got “saved” in 1989. Spent the next 14 years devoting more of my time than I should have to searching for a church that wasn’t a sad sack, effeminate re-education camp for mental geldings.

    It’s been 14 more years since I wrote the whole business off. I’m glad I did it before my eldest son (of five) turned 10. I’m glad that I explained to all of my boys why it was necessary.

    I recognize the essence of what Dalrock is presenting here and in other posts on the same problem. The fig leaves have been completely stripped away, haven’t they?

  45. feeriker says:

    I have a better idea. How about mens groups start using a book called “The Bible”?

    C’mon now, Jason. You know good and well that churchians never read that dusty old patriarchal misogynist tome. Talk about it endlessly? Sure. But actually read it? Not a chance. Too boring. And hard. And demanding. And … not profitable for the churchisn publishing industry, shich puts out far more interesting and acceptably modern material.

  46. earl says:

    Not a chance. Too boring. And hard.

    And as a lot of these pastors like to point out it was written for that time in that culture. Now that things have changed certainly the feminist zeitgeist* is the true way things go.

    *http://biblehub.com/2_corinthians/4-4.htm

  47. MarcusD says:

    Millennials Are Delaying Marriage Because Men Aren’t Earning Enough
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-13/millennials-are-delaying-marraige-because-men-arent-earning-enough

    —-

    More Americans are living alone after recession
    http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/355122-more-americans-are-living-alone-after-recession

    Instead, analysts said, the decline in both marriage and partnerships is likely a result of the declining ability of men to earn a salary large enough to sustain a family. “All signs point to the growing fragility of the male wage earner,” said Cheryl Russell, a demographer and editorial director at the New Strategist Press. “The demographic segments most likely to be living without a partner are the ones in which men are struggling the most — young adults, the less educated, Hispanics and blacks.”

  48. desiderian says:

    There is noting Christian about these false prophets.

    I’ve noticed that Silent men joke about the wife being the boss, with it understood that of course it is a joke. Someone forget to tell the Boomers.

  49. Jason says:

    Cheryl Russell forgets the usual and very large “white working class” in her report.

  50. Iowa Slim says:

    “Instead, analysts said, the decline in both marriage and partnerships is likely a result of the declining ability of men to…”

    …tolerate overbearing dingbat women.

  51. Don Quixote says:

    I don’t know if anyone on this board are familiar with the: ‘Obedient Wives Club’?
    This movement only exists in Islam. But it has drawn the ire of feminists who are currently working to destroy patriarchy in Islam. It is spreading in south east Asia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obedient_Wives_Club

    Does anyone know of a Christian equivalent?
    Not re-packaged feminism, but a genuine movement that works within existing churches teaching women how to obey?
    Or perhaps I just dreaming…

  52. Will S. says:

    Reblogged this on Patriactionary and commented:
    If I attended AnonS’s church and were in his shoes, I’d not only be no longer interested in joining the men’s group; I’d be looking for another church; a real, Godly one.

  53. Dalrock.

    Seen this.
    Unrelated but a major national papers front page worrying that hetero men living together as bromances or the ol!d style roomates could replace male female relationships.

    And its not the usual attack on basement dwellers but college men not sharing their post graduate earnings preparing for women.

    http://nationalpost.com/health/rise-of-the-bromance-is-bad-for-women-could-become-genuine-lifestyle-relationship-study

    They just dont know its called MGTOW.

  54. Iowa Slim says:

    @mgtowhorseman

    Dang, my best bromance prospects are all married. Where have all the good men gone?

  55. feeriker says:

    Does anyone know of a Christian equivalent [to the Obedient Wives Club]?

    Anywhere in the Western World? Only in your dreams.

    Or perhaps I just dreaming…

    Not “just” dreaming; we’re talking about codeine-induced subconscious hallucinations.

  56. American says:

    I’m not stupid enough to entangle myself in all of that. It would end with me like a dinosaur dying in a tar pit surrounded by divorce lawyers, collection agencies, familial court subpoenas, and law enforcement agencies with warrants for non-payment in hand on behalf of someone who left to have sex with other people. No way, that’s never going to happen.

    Swim through that ocean of molasses dragging a ball and chain if you like but I’m flying first class instead. Seat for one please!

  57. MarcusD says:

    @mgtowhorseman

    From the article:

    It offers young men the opportunity for, as the research found, “elevated emotional stability, enhanced emotional disclosure, social fulfilment and better conflict resolution, compared to the emotional lives they shared with girlfriends.”

    “But it’s not necessarily benefiting women, and in fact it may well be disadvantaging them,” White said.

    Astounding, to be honest. The immediate question is, as always: Do these people hear themselves?

    @Iowa Slim

    Dang, my best bromance prospects are all married. Where have all the good men gone?

    LOL!

  58. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    The American Conservative seeks comments regarding “Preaching Honestly in a Post-Christian World”: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/preaching-honestly-in-a-post-christian-world/

    Rod Dreher seeks comments from priests and pastors of all Christian denominations. Rabbis and Imams also welcomed to comment.

  59. earlthomas786 says:

    Astounding, to be honest. The immediate question is, as always: Do these people hear themselves?

    I doubt white knights ever hear themselves.

  60. earlthomas786 says:

    Does anyone know of a Christian equivalent?

    Christ and the church. But that would require the pastor to crack open their dusty old Bible to know that.

  61. earlthomas786 says:

    I do love the cognitive dissonance. Women are brainwashed into thinking they can be strong empowered and independent and that marriage for them is oppression…then they and the white knights get mad when more men decide to let them be strong, empowered, and independent by leaving them alone and not oppressing them by getting married. I wonder if they’ll ever get it?

  62. Jason says:

    I had a roommate from 2009-2011 when I first moved to Fresno……he ,like me was a life long bachelor. Professional artist and muralist. He made a decent living! Like me, he couldn’t seem to get a date to save his life.

    Cool guy. I rented a room from him in his home. We became really solid friends. Probably the first real friend I had since college……we still meet up once a month or so…..jam (he plays a solid bass, and I play trumpet), sometimes we cook dinner…..or watch a cool documentary (we just watched that LA session musicians documentary, “The Wrecking Crew” totally worth the time to watch)

    A few people have called our friendship “a bromance” and I do care for the guy………but this term was probably coined by an angry woman. I mean, women will make comments like this….but when men like my old roommate and myself actually ask women “out” the answer is always a flat out “no” or a trillion excuses of why she cannot go on a date.

    Bromance. yeah, its funny and its going to be more common.

  63. Trust says:

    Women derive both power and pleasure from shame.

    Anytime a pastor or speaker insults husbands, look around, women will light up, smile and nod. Say something positive about them, you’ll get eye rolls and sour looks.

    The reverse is not true. If it is wives that are insulted, men do not enjoy hearing their wives insulted, and the women may very well revolt. This is speculation largely, because it happens so rarely that you can not be sure.

    I chuckle a bit at the reaction to “Love and Respect” by Emerson Eggrichs. It almost perfectly balanced. Same number of book chapters devoted to Love as to Respect. Same number of minutes in the presentation. Yet, many wives are shocked to find it isn’t all about showing love and respect to wives, and many comments on their blog revealed that women thought that 50/50 was biased and all about the men.

    Women have been so conditioned as to their own marital superiority that they never even consider, much less listen to, the possibility that they may even be responsible for a small fraction of marital discord. Even as they do all the yelling, all the disconnecting, all the blaming — even in the face of a husband that would gnaw his own arm off to have happy relationship.

    Pastors and christian salesman know who to market to. Most husbands don’t need a 200 page book and an entire conference devoted to telling them to be nice to his wife, they are marinated in the “respect women” mantra from birth.

    Women are taught the opposite, and unfortunately feminism has influenced the church more than church influences the congregation. They know a steady dose of disrespect towards husband will keep the women smiling with ears open, and the pews full. “God wants you to kneel so He can hit your husband harder”, ya know.

  64. Jon Patch says:

    My blood boils whenever I here the name Dennis Rainey. Impossible to prove or even get anybody to consider, but he was critical in the destruction of my marriage through long-term subtle brain-washing of my ex. Nothing is more sinister than these soft-spoken lilting-tongue feminist “preachers” performing day after day mind control over wives through the radio airwaves.

  65. Trust says:

    @Jon Patch

    I recall a a lead in to a marriage series. The video was of a wife constantly yelling at her husband, and he would simply leave the room or the house.

    The title of the series: Silence Abuse.

    I wish I was making this up. But, those like Rainey know who to market to.

    Marriages are collapsing, children are suffering, and a lot of money is being made. But simple truths aren’t as profitable.

  66. Jason says:

    Silence abuse????????????????

    Then my father obviously was a terrible man! Whenever my mother on those occasions would berate my father to the point of exhaustion….he would get silent and would not speak until he knew what to say, or how to handle the situation……and my parents had a “good” marriage.

    Silence abuse……you have got to be kidding me.

  67. Trust says:

    @Jason

    There is no profit to be made by telling women to quit verbally abusing their husbands. There is great profit to be made by giving verbally abusive wives rationalization that his silence is actually the abuse.

    It is in women’s nature to portray herself as the victim when she is the aggressor. Women will pay well for backup.

  68. Boxer says:

    Nothing is more sinister than these soft-spoken lilting-tongue feminist “preachers” performing day after day mind control over wives through the radio airwaves.

    As Anon and others have pointed out, they’re driven by a complete lack of genuine faith. They don’t hesitate to contradict the very text of the New Testament, that they pretend to quote from. Laughable and pathetic.

    Note that Rainey and his ilk would never have the resources to do the sort of damage they routinely celebrate if good men woke up and quit giving them their money. Don’t give a feminist priest, minister or rabbi any of your money. Don’t volunteer any time to them, nor give them any attention. They don’t deserve it.

  69. Boxer says:

    A few people have called our friendship “a bromance” and I do care for the guy………but this term was probably coined by an angry woman. I mean, women will make comments like this….but when men like my old roommate and myself actually ask women “out” the answer is always a flat out “no” or a trillion excuses of why she cannot go on a date.

    Jack Donovan wrote about this. Mircea Eliade and Claude Levi-Strauss touched on it way before him.

    Men are wired to self-organize and form tribes, conquer and control territory with a well-defined perimeter, and work to improve conditions therein. Women are useful for having sex with (thus making more men), but otherwise are outside the inner workings of the tribe. This has always been so.

    If you look at so-called “primitive” societies, you’ll find that they accept this basic truth that we have forgotten. Men spend most of their time among other men, gaining respect, honing their skills, proving their courage and reliability. Men don’t supplicate or beg favors from pedestalized females. Who are they, anyway?

    Basically the “bromance” is a modern translation of something that’s completely natural. Women shame it because they instinctively know that a return to a more normal society would never benefit them.

    Boxer

  70. Boxer says:

    Dear Earl:

    I doubt white knights ever hear themselves.

    My fellow Cultural Marxist and Frankfurt School grand poobah, Jürgen Habermas, wrote a book, a long time ago, entitled The Theory of Communicative Action. An old Jesuit priest made me read parts of it when I was a teenager, thus I was corrupted for ever, both from Mormonism and also from Orthodox Marxism; but, if you were to dare crack such a tome, you’d find an explanation for the phenomenon you’re describing rat cheer.

    Basically the “white knight” feminist priest is indulging in a bit of jiggery-pokery (that means he’s playing word games). The technical term for what he’s pretending to do is perlocutionary. In essence, he’s playacting at giving advice or suggestions, in the hopes that his listeners will actually change their behavior and become more feminist. What he is actually performing is an illocutionary act. He’s declaring himself allied with feminism, and the words he’s using don’t really mean anything at all.

    This is a form of unethical discourse that is endemic to our society. The red pill community has a word for parts of it (virtue-signalling) which is actually pretty good. What’s most insidious about it is the fact that the speaker often speaks in this dishonest fashion, not knowing that the listener will actually take him seriously. He says ridiculous, over the top stuff to signal his feminist credentials, but the listeners do take him seriously, and start making the illocutionary jump themselves. This leads to a low-trust, dishonest, dysfunctional discourse in which everyone is constantly trying to one-up the others with ever more outrageous displays of dishonesty.

    What’s amazing is that the game never seems to collapse, until all members of the group are atomized. I’ve never seen this sort of thing end with someone (on the inside) finally getting real, and telling the emperor he has no clothes.

    Boxer

  71. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Speaking of primitive societies, I recently saw Walkabout, a 1971 Australian film. It’s about a young white siblings who get lost in the Australian outback. An aborigine boy helps them return to civilization.

    There’s sexual tension between the white girl (played by 19-year-old Jenny Augutter) and the aborigine boy. It’s not overplayed. Nothing happens. It’s just right in terms of subtlety.

    At film’s end, the woman is now a housewife. Her businessman husband comes home, hugs her, and relates his day at the office. But she’s lost in memories of swimming naked with the aborigine boy.

    This ending is supposed to show the sterility of civilization. That she might have been happier had she remained “lost”, living “close to nature.” But seen through red pill eyes, it’s obvious that she’s an alpha widow to the aborigine. She wishes she had sex with him, and maybe stayed with him. Her husband is boring. She doesn’t love him.

    I suppose this ending is supposed to be wistful and poignant. But I found it chilling.

  72. Jason says:

    Interesting Boxer….

    A few random women at the the local Starbucks we would go to on some evenings assumed we both were gay….because we actually enjoyed each others company. I know who I am and what I am not. He did too.

    I think it worked well because of the fact we both were in our forties. We both had our stories, good times, bad times……..and the “competition” so to speak concerning women was done. maybe it was maturity. Maybe it was realizing they were not worth time. What I mean is that….if he was talking to a woman, or had one over to watch a movie I didn’t get all jealous, or have to “neg” her or make myself around them. One night (morning) after returning from soul dancing…..had a woman over for a little bit…..my roommate was up. A polite hello, a laugh or two and he left us alone.

    We both know women, had a few polite friendships with them……but we din’t hook up or date. They (the women) always liked someone else, were dating someone else or just were not interested. We were very different men. I was a Christian, he really wanted nothing to do with it.

    Good guy. We have discussed being roommates again. Thanks again for your reply Boxer

  73. The red pill community has a word for parts of it (virtue-signalling) which is actually pretty good

    “The Lift”: Less descriptive / more clandestine term based on a valid and humorous analogy.

    This post dragged me back to say that it reminds me of the time I was attending a PK conference, late 90’s maybe, in the Houston area. We shuttled around in the rented Caravan picking up the guys and I witnessed the wives all doing a sort of send off in the driveways where they had furrowed their brows and were muttering spiritual equivalents to “change your underwear”, “eat your veggies”, and

    “come back changed, molded in my image”

  74. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    This documentary on pedophilia in Hollywood.was completed a few years ago, but could not find distribution. Now, due to the Harvey Weinstein scandal, it’s being offered for free on YouTube, for a limited time only.

  75. The original bromance

    Oscar and Felix, “The Odd Couple”

    Wait a minute!!! They were a Couple??

    Maybe the womenz Are onto something!!

  76. Anonymous Reader says:

    empathalogicalism

    Always good to see you, Empath.

    “come back changed, molded in my image”

    Exactly, this has been going on longer than a lot of people realize. 100 years ago the 1st stage feminists and the preachers [1] saw two of their projects succeed in the US. Votes for women and prohibition of alcohol.

    Votes for women were sold in large part by the notion of innate female morality, that women were less corruptable than men, so extending the franchise to them would “clean up politics”. Or to put it in Empathalogical terms, politics would be remade in women’s image. Of course the first Presidential election after that event was in 1920, and Warren G. Harding was described as “the handsomest man in America”. He won, but died in office.

    Prohibition of alcohol was sold on the basis of getting men to stop spending all the rent money in saloons, going home and beating their wives. Sound familiar? Supposedly by closing down alcohol sales men would spend more time at home with their wives, or in the library with a good book.
    “Father, dear father, come home with me now!” was written in the 19th century by a temperance preacher.

    http://www.fresnostate.edu/folklore/ballads/R308.html

    In other words, men should stop going to places where alcohol was sold, and remake themselves to be more like women.

    What have we gotten from women’s votess is debatable, although it gets clearer every year.
    What the US got from Prohibition is easy to see: organized crime gangs in every major city, corruption of public officials from the largest city (New York) down to the tiny village. Widespread smuggling of alcohol across both borders and on all three coasts, with more gang wars / shootouts between runners and revenue agents / corruption. Plus, of course, expanded powers of government.

    On the whole, in conclusion, it is obvious that attempting to remake men in the image of women has consistently failed, with results that range from bad to appalling, and that’s just in the secular world. One might begin to suspect that men and women are different. Wonder when the preachers will get that memo?

    Again, always good to see Empath.

    [1] The Methodist denomination was very heavily involved in the promotion of prohibition late in the 19th and early in the 20th century. The results of Prohibition in the 1920’s seems to have seriously damaged that denomination in terms of membership numbers. Publicly associating your “brand” with a really bad idea that turns into disaster is probably not the way to grow.

  77. feeriker says:

    Silence abuse????????????????

    Modernist definition of “abuse:” any action taken by a man toward a woman that 1) is corrective in nature, 2) makes her “feel bad,” 3) makes her see that her actions have consequences that she will be held to account for, and 4) leads her to repent and change her behavior.

    I used “silence abuse” on my fiancee three years ago about three months after we first met. She had (what is for her a VERY rare) “tantrum” and a meltdown, at which point she stormed off, shut herself in her bedroom, and texted me that she wasn’t speaking to me. Ok, fine.

    Far from panicking and groveling, I just went about my business. After 24 hours she tried to text me, but I ignored her. After a day and a half she was scream-texting (all caps) begging me to talk. My perfunctory answer: “Maybe when you decide to rejoin the adult world.” After two days she was weep-texting me non-stop, telling me how much she missed me, and begging me to forgive her, which I did. It was the first, last, and so far only time we’ve ever had a serious quarrel or that she’s been disagreeable. I really think she was “shit testing” me, and I must have passed the test.

    So yeah, I can understand why rebellious women and their mangina white knight enablers would consider silence to be “abuse.” In the hands of a red-pilled man it takes away all of a woman’s power of emotional manipulation.

  78. AT says:

    Our family visited a conservative, yet “modern” church for a while several years ago. One Sunday they put up a slide on the overhead advertising the upcoming men’s retreat. The slide read something like this:

    “Men don’t forget to sign up for the super-masculine, wild-thing retreat. Your wife says it’s OK!”

    I almost laughed out loud, seriously thinking it was somebody’s idea of a joke. Even some of the more Biblically submissive, self-aware wives were uncomfortable with the marketing. One older couple asked after the service if I planned to attend and the wife said, “The retreat should be great, but I don’t really like the tag line.” Another man I was just getting to know walked up to me and said “So X are you planning to attend the men’s retreat? Your wife says it’s OK!” I just stood there and stared at him, and afterward my wife said, “Well, that was pretty uncomfortable. You were radiating contempt.”

  79. earlthomas786 says:

    The title of the series: Silence Abuse.

    I love how feminist preachers make every situation into a no-win for a man.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall of his marriage to see how many of his so-called abuse tatics he uses. Unless the only allowable abuse he rationalizes is whatever the wife unleashes on the man. From nasty words to throwing frying pans at his head for being a bum…he must take it because he must have produced those feelings in her.

  80. earlthomas786 says:

    An old Jesuit priest made me read parts of it when I was a teenager…

    No wonder you haven’t come to the Catholic side yet. Modern Jesuits do more to drive people away from the faith than to bring them to it.

  81. earlthomas786 says:

    “come back changed, molded in my image”

    I wish, just once, someone with some clout would tell wives…’your husband is not your son’. So quit treating him like he’s the biggest kid in the house.

    His mother is the one who did the molding, your job is not to continue what she started.

  82. info says:

    ”Anytime a pastor or speaker insults husbands, look around, women will light up, smile and nod. Say something positive about them, you’ll get eye rolls and sour looks.”

    Did they even hear the real gospel at all

    As documented in the ”church impotent” by Leon J Podles. Those effeminate gamma male preachers were always advocates of “women’s rights”.

  83. Tarl says:

    “His mother is the one who did the molding”

    That’s exactly the problem. She taught him to supplicate to and obey women. She turned him into a betabitch.

  84. feeriker says:

    I wish, just once, someone with some clout would tell wives…’your husband is not your son’. So quit treating him like he’s the biggest kid in the house.

    Isn’t it ironic that it’s the oldest teenage girl in the house who always thinks that she’s “mommy” to the only manin it?

  85. earlthomas786 says:

    She taught him to supplicate to and obey women.

    I suppose that is the case if the son grows up in a single mother household.

    The father also molds his son too.

  86. info says:

    @Tarl
    ”“His mother is the one who did the molding”
    Effectively single motherhood.

    @earlthomas786
    ”She taught him to supplicate to and obey women.I suppose that is the case if the son grows up in a single mother household.”

    Isn’t that effectively single motherhood with the dad only as the ATM?

  87. Hank Flanders says:

    I just went to a wedding at a fairly traditional looking church officiated by a seemingly traditional elderly southern pastor, who during the service paraphrased what I guess was supposed to be Ephesians 5 by stating, “Scripture tells the husband to love his wife, and scripture tells the wife…to love her husband, and scripture tells both of them to love each other as Christ loved the church.” During that brief pause between “wife” and “to”, I was indeed curious as to how he was going to carefully phrase “respect,” “submit to,” or “be subject to,” but sadly, although unsurprisingly, he just left that part out and applied the command to the husband to both the husband and wife.

  88. feeriker says:

    During that brief pause between “wife” and “to”, I was indeed curious as to how he was going to carefully phrase “respect,” “submit to,” or “be subject to,” but sadly, although unsurprisingly, he just left that part out and applied the command to the husband to both the husband and wife.

    Imagine if you had shouted out “Aren’t ‘SUBMIT TO’ the words you’re looking for here?”

    You could probably have brapped off a 100-decible fart the olfactory offensiveness of which could have sent those in attendance to the ER and it would have been considered less offensive, irreverent, and blasphemous than suggesting that the bride “submit to her husband as the church submits to Christ.”

  89. Opus says:

    One-itis is a condition which we males are prone to. The Japanese have however taken one-itis to extreme lengths falling in love even with anime characters. One, Grape-kun* having been frivorced by his wife of ten years one Midori fell for the anime character Hululu spending hours every day staring at it and failing to eat. Grape-kun has now died after a short illness.

    *Grape-kun is a Humboldt Penguin

  90. Scott says:

    I’ve never seen this sort of thing end with someone (on the inside) finally getting real, and telling the emperor he has no clothes.

    Me neither, and really they can’t. The ego investment is too high at that point. Also the need for social acceptance and the fear that you will lose status as a member of the group (and you will, so the fear is warranted).

    The two or three times I tried something like this, even with polite deference to the authority has resulted in my losing any kind of “in-group” credentials. Now, I am pretty introverted so it doesn’t bother me that much, but its still not fun.

  91. Spike says:

    Matamoros says:
    October 13, 2017 at 12:42 pm
    How about a “Radical Wives Mentoring Group” where wives and other women can learn to be submissive wives, in the context of a good wife is a good Christian?

    Make the women get permission slips from their husbands to attend, and if unmarried from their father.

    -I’ve seen this exact scenario played out recently, and the feminist response from Christian women.

    I’ve signed up for a sex roles steering committee at my local church. I figured that, since my Red Pill awakening, I’ve got good, solid Christian values to impart on the committee and therefore, the church.
    I know what you’re thinking. Yep, you’re right. One dose of Red Pill logic and the women who show up are immediately scared.
    Those Bible passages about submission, where God’s hierarchy is plain, gets dissolved into egalitarianism. There’s no difference between men’s and women’s ministries. Any passage with the word “submit” in it gets a long, panic-like explanation of what submission isn’t.

    The stuff that gets written here by Dalrock and the average Christian man IS REAL. And from what I can see., it isn’t going to change.

  92. earlthomas786 says:

    “Scripture tells the husband to love his wife, and scripture tells the wife…to love her husband, and scripture tells both of them to love each other as Christ loved the church.”

    And yet I’ve been questioned by another poster about ‘Christ not accepting a church that doesn’t love him’. Some people just can’t accept what Paul actually put in Scripture about what the wife’s role in the marriage is.

    https://deepstrength.wordpress.com/2017/10/11/the-peter-titus-2-and-marriage-connection/#comment-10338

  93. earlthomas786 says:

    Those Bible passages about submission, where God’s hierarchy is plain, gets dissolved into egalitarianism. There’s no difference between men’s and women’s ministries. Any passage with the word “submit” in it gets a long, panic-like explanation of what submission isn’t.

    And that’s the reason why…the term submission is the fly in the ointment to the egalitarians. Changing it to love for both is one of the ways around the marital hierarchy.

    Both spouses should love each other…but don’t use that rationale to promote egalitarian thought and strike out what Scripture said their marital roles are.

  94. feeriker says:

    And that’s the reason why…the term submission is the fly in the ointment to the egalitarians. Changing it to love for both is one of the ways around the marital hierarchy.

    These questions really need to be asked, flat-out and bluntly, whenever there is pushback against the Scripture’s plaintext commands:

    “Why are you ashamed of Scripture here?”

    “Since you believe God is wrong about wives submitting to husbands, why not just say so?”

    “What exactly do you fear that your wife will do if you begin insisting that she submit to you as God commands her to do?”

    (FOR WOMEN: “Why do you fear or resent submission to your husband? Do you think he’ll become ‘abusive’? [If so, why did you ever marry him in the first place?] You submit easily and without question to every other male authority figure in your life, most of whom have no God-given authority over you. So why don’t you submit to your own husband who DOES have such authority?”)

    “If you really believe your wife will submit to you, why are you do clearly ashamed of and trying to pervert the Scriptural references to submission?”

    “What do you think God is thinking now that He sees how ashamed you are of His word and how much more you love/fear the World and embrace its version of marriage over His?”

    “Why so LITTLE FAITH?”

  95. bw says:

    Churchian Edition.
    They are cult Marx, not Christians

  96. earlthomas786 says:

    You submit easily and without question to every other male authority figure in your life, most of whom have no God-given authority over you. So why don’t you submit to your own husband who DOES have such authority?

    Or if you aren’t married…your father.

    It’s God, your father, then your husband if you get married, ladies. Simplify things rather than give into the land of confusion.

  97. Gunner Q says:

    Spike @ 6:38 am:
    “I’ve signed up for a sex roles steering committee at my local church. I figured that, since my Red Pill awakening, I’ve got good, solid Christian values to impart on the committee and therefore, the church.
    I know what you’re thinking. Yep, you’re right. One dose of Red Pill logic and the women who show up are immediately scared.”

    Story! We want the story! Victories are in short supply these days. And kudos to you for standing firm for Christ.

  98. Westray says:

    The culture-wide gaslighting of decent males continues apace and unabated. It’s starting as early as preschool these days, onward into every facet of our culture.

    I’m sure that nowhere in any of this is there the slightest acknowledgement of the 50-80 hours a week that the man spends working and commuting. That’s the baseline expectation and it’s as much of a given as oxygen in the air. It’s just going to be there; not appreciated, acknowledged, reciprocated, even mentioned. I can even imagine a harridan haranguing her husband; “Well if you didn’t spend all your time working then maybe we could get some things done around here!” The males equal contribution around the house only starts to accrue AFTER his 60 hours of working/commuting.

    @American

    “Ocean of molasses.” I can think of other words to use in place of molasses but it’s a nice metaphor.

    At this point, the trad-cuck man-up howls are coming from some place of deep regret. These guys are trapped with overweight shrewmonsters and that whisper in the back of their mind is starting to shout at them….”You could have stayed single.” Cue the massive, “It was all worth it! Right?” photo dump of their children onto facebook, and their aggressive shaming of single males, who they’ve begun to loathe via envy.

    “This could be YOUR ONE SHOT to be a real man who’s treated like an actual adult and gets to have real sex with HIS wife.”

    Yes, all for the great reward of the golden, magical vaj of that 194 pounder. Bow down to your fat master and have intercourse with her fat, aging, unhealthy body while you envision your neighbor’s 20 year old daughter. Sign me up!

  99. What a pathetic existence.
    Nothing quite like the church-sanctioned infantilization of men and the installation of “Mother, may I…?” from adult males.

    Even the obedient and compliant husband who completes this “Man Up!” weekend warrior seminar with the best of intentions for his marriage will return to an ungrateful, presupposing wife at home in akimbo stance, tapping her foot with that “Well!??” look on her face. She’ll be wait for what’s in it for her..

    The church wants to build a better beta for the wife folk.

    What if her husband decides “I’m not going” to the Man Up seminars at church? That leads to yet another world of hellish exchange with an indignant, unappreciative bitch of a wife.

    Young single men should never marry and never co-habitate.
    Married me with ungrateful, unappreciative and sexually ungenerous wives should divorce them with malice.

  100. Lost Patrol says:

    Me neither, and really they can’t. The ego investment is too high at that point. Also the need for social acceptance and the fear that you will lose status as a member of the group (and you will, so the fear is warranted).

    The two or three times I tried something like this, even with polite deference to the authority has resulted in my losing any kind of “in-group” credentials. Now, I am pretty introverted so it doesn’t bother me that much, but its still not fun.

    It’s a fact that most men will not be well positioned for this by the time they find out which end is up. It will be too disruptive for themselves and their families at a time when they are not ready to weather it. Some however will find themselves in circumstances where they can give it a try, and even have some fun with it. Spike has taken an opportunity at his local church to inject some Dalrockian style truth and I am trying the same.

    I’ve enjoyed throwing some truth grenades into the mix at my local church. I’ve joined a weekly men’s group led by the senior pastor where, lo and behold, the first subject matter of the class led right to a discussion of Adam, Eve, the garden, and relationships between husbands and wives. Being well armed with facts and sound logic supplied by commenters here, I’ve been able to hold my own fairly well. The men are clearly surprised to hear someone advocate for husbands and challenge the undeclared but obvious theme of total deference to wives, but the ice has been broken and this has led to some men (offline and later) agreeing that feminism has taken hold. Like me before coming here, they did not really see it or think about it much.

    The pastor is sitting right there, and to his complete credit has never said I should keep it to myself. On the contrary, he has encouraged me to continue with my questions and unusual (for there) observations. Maybe he’s just setting an elaborate trap, but I get the idea he is more intrigued-but-not-convinced at this point. He is a CBMW man.

    Back to the point of the quote is that with my kids grown, being financially sound, and not beholden to any particular people or groups there; I have a certain freedom of action not available to most men. It’s no credit or merit to me because there is essentially no risk or discomfort involved, but to say that some of us will find an occasional opportunity to test the waters.

  101. Kevin says:

    All of those be taken in a better light IFF they had the same sort of statements about men staying with women helping them grow, statements about men allowing their wives to go off on Saturdays. But they don’t.

  102. Anonymous Reader says:

    Constrainedlocus
    The church wants to build a better beta for the wife folk.

    The churches are beta factories. There’s always room for improvement in the product.

    https://therationalmale.com/2011/12/05/build-a-better-beta/

    Is this really the “product” that churches are supposed to produce?

  103. Jon Patch says:

    There will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who brought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago in not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
    2 PETER 2:1-3

  104. Yet Another Commenter, Yet Another Comment ("Yac-Yac") says:

    Is it just me, or does “Regi” sound hideously feminine for a man’s first name? It’s either feminized, or it is infantilized; maybe both. I am confident lots of American girls and women go by “Regi”.

    Pax Christi Vobiscum

  105. Oscar says:

    OT: Anybody notice the correlating factor between these Molech-worshiping clergy-folk?

    United Methodist and Episcopalian Church Clergy Lead Prayer Rally to “Bless” Abortion Clinic

    http://www.lifenews.com/2015/10/12/united-methodist-and-episcopalian-church-clergy-lead-prayer-rally-to-bless-abortion-clinic/

  106. Boxer says:

    Dear Oscar:

    Yeah, Breitbart covered those two butch dyke priests blessing the abortion clinic, but it’s never a bad thing to have a reminder as to how degenerate people have actually gotten.

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2015/10/12/never-let-a-crisis-go-to-waste/#comment-190983

    Unbelievable.

    Boxer

  107. seventiesjason says:

    The cultural war is over and we lost. So is are the upper escheleons of The United Methodist Church “censoring” Rev Laura?? No? Why? They are terrified of being smeared. The Episcopal Church? Is the local or National Dioces sending the Vicars who call for this stance kicking them to the street? No? Why? Because they don’t want to offend man but will openly sneer God from the pulpit and parish. No wonder their denomination is dying. Come Lord Jesus come!!!

  108. feeriker says:

    United Methodist and Episcopalian Church Clergy Lead Prayer Rally to “Bless” Abortion Clinic

    And in other earth-shattering news, the sun rose in the east this morning.

    Episcopalians and Methodists severed any connections to real Christianity decades ago. In fact, to continue to refer to either one as a “church” is borderline blasphemy.

  109. info says:

    @spike
    ”The stuff that gets written here by Dalrock and the average Christian man IS REAL. And from what I can see., it isn’t going to change.”

    Then petition our God and Father to take action in this regard. Our Lord our head as it is revealed in Revelation is in control of the church. Let our Lord take action. As others have done in this thread its worth if possible to take action. But if unable then cry to God for help for that which is beyond our control. Perhaps God may end up using you or not. But its worth asking. Some could be said for myself

  110. Anon says:

    feeriker,

    “Why so LITTLE FAITH?”

    A complete lack of genuine faith manifests in a variety of ways.

    For a pastorbator, it takes the form on him insisting that unattractive church fatties are ‘beautiful, beautiful, beautiful’.

    For a cuckservative, it takes the form of being a cartoonish whiteknight.

    For a female, it takes the form of left-wing virtue signalling.

  111. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Today’s U.S. military:

    In today’s Marines, a Muslim recruit commits suicide in boot camp. Family sues the Marines for $100 million, claiming their son was hazed: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/10/15/muslim-marine-recruit-familly-lawsuit/766173001/

    The family of a Muslim Marine recruit from Taylor, Michigan who died in a fall at boot camp last year after allegedly being hazed and abused is suing the government for $100 million for his death, claiming “negligence on multiple levels of command.”

    The lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in Detroit claims the Marines “fostered a culture of abuse and hazing” at the training base at Parris Island, S.C., that led to the death of 20-year-old Raheel Siddiqui in a three-story fall from a barracks stairwell in March 2016.

    In today’s Army, a Major General is booted for sexting a sergeant’s wife: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/10/15/army-sacks-general-sexy-texts-wife-sergeant/765070001/

    Ending Harrington’s career is the appropriate punishment, if this is a single incident, said Don Christensen, the Air Force’s former chief prosecutor and president of Protect Our Defenders, a group that advocates on behalf of victims of sexual assault in the military. The Army must conduct a thorough investigation to determine if there are other instances or victims, he said.

  112. Spike says:

    Gunner Q says:
    October 15, 2017 at 11:57 am
    Spike @ 6:38 am:
    “I’ve signed up for a sex roles steering committee at my local church. I figured that, since my Red Pill awakening, I’ve got good, solid Christian values to impart on the committee and therefore, the church.
    I know what you’re thinking. Yep, you’re right. One dose of Red Pill logic and the women who show up are immediately scared.”

    Story! We want the story! Victories are in short supply these days. And kudos to you for standing firm for Christ.

    Well, Gunner, I’d love to tell you that I’d slayed the feminist dragon(”lady”), but it isn’t that simple.
    Covering the well-known Bible verses of Ephesians 5, I preempted the Pastor’s qualifications to submission:”Yes, that’s true, but you can be nice about it….”. 1 Cor 11 (head covering) was ”not about hierarchy, but egalitarianism…”. Me: ”Okay, but why then do the Russian Orthodox and other Fundamentalist churches wear veils and scarves?”
    1 Timothy 2 is actually about women ”learning in quiet”, rather than being quiet.
    Me: “How then is it that the Church missed this for 2 000 years and it only becomes apparent with the invention of feminism?”
    It’s aided and abetted by that infernal translation, the 2011 NIV, that has deliberately gone out of it’s way to make itself feminist-friendly.It’s a disgrace.
    I get lots of womansplaining, false statistics, factoids and -believe it – stern words (though not yet rebukes) from ”conservative” elders.
    Quietly, though, I’m getting some positive feedback. Those men who come from places where the church has been persecuted know, see and understand that there is something wrong with the female-centric model that is the norm in both church and secular West. They tell me that I articulate what they were thinking but couldn’t put into words. They say that if this church encounters real persecution, it will crumble because it isn’t united around the Word. They can see for themselves the bad relations between the sexes and how it will impact the church if persecution sets in.
    So, in short, the waves are smashing against the rock. That’s okay, because this rock is grounded on a yet stronger Rock.
    I’m going to continue. I’ve got nothing to lose.

    PS: One tip: Watch “The Searchers” the 1956 film with John Wayne as Ethan Edwards. He is terse, no nonsense, sticks to his beliefs and faces the consequences of his actions no matter what. Be the Christian version!

  113. info says:

    @spike

    Goodspeed brother.

  114. info says:

    *Godspeed

  115. Scott says:

    Hey there gentlemen.

    Just in case you were wondering, you are all women hating, whiners who are on the Autism spectrum. And I am a privileged coward.

    https://americandadweb.wordpress.com/2017/10/16/disclaimers/

  116. Oscar says:

    @ Boxer

    I missed it when you posted that article before. Thanks. I seriously doubt it’s a coincidence that every denomination that ordains women also condones homosexuality and abortion.

  117. feeriker says:

    They say that if this church encounters real persecution, it will crumble because it isn’t united around the Word. They can see for themselves the bad relations between the sexes and how it will impact the church if persecution sets in.

    EXACTLY.

    I’ve made some enemies by saying this, but what the western church NEEDS is to be persecuted. It’s grown soft, superficial, and corrupt by not being forced to commit to and live the tenets of the faith under adversity. If First Century Christianity had not been mercilessly persecuted as it was, the faith would have died out quickly, or never spread beyond the Levantine Middle East.

    General recommendation to everyone: next time you’re in church on Sunday, take a good, long look around you and realize that if/when serious persecution starts, not even five percent of your fellow congregants will remain faithful. Your pastor and most of the leadership might even be among those who apostacize in the face of persecution.

  118. Scott says:

    General recommendation to everyone: next time you’re in church on Sunday, take a good, long look around you and realize that if/when serious persecution starts, not even five percent of your fellow congregants will remain faithful. Your pastor and most of the leadership might even be among those who apostacize in the face of persecution.

    Yes

  119. feministhater says:

    Just in case you were wondering, you are all women hating, whiners who are on the Autism spectrum.

    Thank you Scott! As they say, you first need to diagnose the problem before being able to find a solution. This descriptor of us lemmings narrows it down considerably and shall be immensely helpful in solidifying our conviction when partaking in the solution of castrating ourselves in penance. Lol!

  120. Tarl says:

    I suppose that is the case if the son grows up in a single mother household.

    The father also molds his son too.

    Not just in single mother households. If the father is present, but is a supplicating beta who obeys his wife, then this strongly reinforces (by example) the mother’s teaching that the son must supplicate to and obey women.

  121. Frank K says:

    I seriously doubt it’s a coincidence that every denomination that ordains women also condones homosexuality and abortion.

    I came to that conclusion decades ago, that having ordained women guarantees such an outcome. And now here come the Churchians, with the Pastor’s wife often being openly titled “co-pastor”. Pretty soon we will see Beth Moore types being the Pastor as such churches. Their churches often have slick contemporary names like “Revive”, “Pulse”, etc. and claim to be “relevant to modern times” and market themselves with billboards, bus stop ads, etc. It makes you wonder why anyone goes to them. They are as Spirit filled as a mail order catalog.

  122. Frank K says:

    Episcopalians and Methodists severed any connections to real Christianity decades ago. In fact, to continue to refer to either one as a “church” is borderline blasphemy.

    I sometimes read the London Evening Standard online. The other day a young woman fell from a balcony to her death in St. Paul’s Cathedral, which the article described as a “tourist attraction”.

    I attended Evensong at St Paul’s this past May, and can confirm that the overwhelming majority of those attending the service were just there to gawk and would leave after 5-10 minutes, once they became bored. For them it wasn’t a house of worship, it was just a tourist attraction.

    I wonder how long until St Paul’s is repurposed as a mosque?

  123. Gunner Q says:

    Oscar @ 8:49 am:
    “I seriously doubt it’s a coincidence that every denomination that ordains women also condones homosexuality and abortion.”

    When you deny God’s authority on one issue, it becomes very hard to invoke God’s authority on another issue. How does one say “I know God is wrong about this and right about that” without looking like an imam issuing a fatwa on cheeseburgers?

  124. Oscar says:

    @ Frank K says:
    October 16, 2017 at 1:04 pm

    “I came to that conclusion decades ago, that having ordained women guarantees such an outcome.”

    You were well ahead of me. I only connected those dots recently.

    “I wonder how long until St Paul’s is repurposed as a mosque?”

    I give it 15 years. Place your bets, gents!

  125. Oscar says:

    @ Gunner Q says:
    October 16, 2017 at 1:59 pm

    “When you deny God’s authority on one issue, it becomes very hard to invoke God’s authority on another issue.”

    True, and here’s another factor. Once you push God’s word down the slippery slope, you don’t get to decide where it stops. We haven’t hit bottom yet, and we have no idea where it is.

  126. feeriker says:

    I wonder how long until St Paul’s is repurposed as a mosque?

    Might as well do it now, for all the good it’s doing as a church. I’m sure God now considers it an abomination anyway and won’t do anything to ensure its safeguarding against destruction like He did during the Blitz in World War Ii. Apparently there were at least a few genuine, committed believers in attendance back then.

  127. Girlfielf says:

    The family that adopted 8 African children:

    http://familylifetoday.com/program/love-comes-full-circle/

    “Mike and Hayley Jones reflect on their brief courtship and the engagement. Three years into marriage, however, a disgruntled Mike was ready for greener pastures, and Hayley moved home with her parents. Find out what lead them back together.”

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  129. John Q Public says:

    Absolutely 100% correct.

  130. mike savell says:

    It seems to me that christian belief is fast becoming an oxymoron.Why don’t they just call it femdom and have done with it.At least there would be some fun in it.

  131. feeriker says:

    Find out what lead them back together.”

    Two words: “virtue signalling”

  132. Son of Liberty says:

    seventiesjason says:
    October 13, 2017 at 3:24 pm
    All of them are praise music that is terrible…

    Paul Washer-Unbiblical church music

    Personally noticed this years ago, and I’m a young millennial. Generic draggy voice, effeminate singing, tight pants, stainless steel giant cross jewelry and encrusted plastic diamonds on jeans. But again, this garbage quick-buck music started in the secular mainstream music as well. We have lost knowledge in science and in sound frequencies that Tesla mentioned its vast importance in humanity. The debate on 432Hz vs 440Hz is important as well. Bible mentions the importance of sound and frequencies as well, and not lour repetitive yelling with “ok” lyrics, now known to day as “rock”.

  133. Girlfielf says:

    @feericker – Yes, and their marriage has been precarious up until, and likely after, adoption. *grabs popcorn*

    Family Life’s homepage is littered with dysfunctional marriages that “survived” or whatever. They’re against normal, “boring” marriage. Why put a marriage that works when you can showcase God’s miraculous intervention? Makes for an interesting story.

    Adoption? Why not make them eight kids, a different race, and from Sierra Leone, the most interesting country on the planet.

    A lot of people have speculated that the “mother” is having a relationship with the oldest “son”. I could see it. 90% of their resources have been funneled into his soccer career. What I don’t think a lot of people at ROK realize is that this family isn’t liberal at all. They epitomize trad con, and would have voted for Cruz. I don’t want to vote for the same president these people would, or I’ll get their values and not mine.

  134. Son of Liberty says:

    earlthomas786 says:
    October 14, 2017 at 5:47 pm
    An old Jesuit priest made me read parts of it when I was a teenager…
    No wonder you haven’t come to the Catholic side yet. Modern Jesuits do more to drive people away from the faith than to bring them to it.

    But if God has said to come out of her, why would anyone come to that side?

  135. Frank K says:

    Modern Jesuits do more to drive people away from the faith than to bring them to it.

    We had a parish priest who would speak about his friend, who used to be a Jesuit priest. “He’s a Catholic priest now.” he would say,

  136. Jason says:

    Son of Liberty

    I watched that video a few years back…..and I am not a “huge” Paul Washer fan……..but he did get pull through the muck by fellow Christians (most) who don’t like it when people criticize their “American Idol Show” ………whoops, I mean “Christian Praise Time”

    In The Salvation Army we are slowly losing our traditional “brass bands” at the Corps, and they are being replaced with guitars, drums, keyboard….and “new” songs because if we “don’t change with the times, the young people won’t come”

    Our traditional songs were fighting songs, for His kingdom! They were marches, easy meter, sounded well in unison! Many of the words in our songs are lifted straight from verses in Scripture.

    Yes, our style reflects the times when we were founded as a “holiness movement” on the slummy streets of Victorian east-end London……but they matter more than ever! They convict! They move the spirit and PREPARE us for the message in our meetings.

    I think there are some good “newer” songs, however nothing stirs my heart to praise like an old Charles Wesley, Fanny Crosby, or William Booth penned hymn. I hear all the time from younger Christians that they want “authentic faith, praise and worship” yet they all go crazy over this

    “You are worthy, and I will worship you” repeated a trillion times….and we hardly march before Sunday Holiness anymore which at one time actually fired us all up after a brisk march through the ‘hood and then to the Meeting (Church service). Clip of Salvation Army, Bromley Corps (UK) on the high street (pedestrian mall) before Holiness Meeting.

  137. info says:

    @Son of Liberty

    The effeminate “praise” music is why as a protestant by faggy effeminates that I am forced to check out eastern orthodox or just old fashioned protestant hymns:

    Despite my disagreements with the theology the music is much more glorifying of God.

  138. Jason says:

    Some serious Holy Reverence there Info! Beautiful!

  139. info says:

    @Jason
    There is something to learn even though the theology is wrong.

  140. BillyS says:

    I will take many modern praise songs of old staid hymns any day. Some old hymns have great merit and some modern praise songs are trash, but I will still go for something that is Biblically relevant and reasonable to my hearing.

    Stick with the staid if you want, but it won’t advance either.

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  142. Son of Liberty says:

    Frank K says:
    October 17, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    Modern Jesuits do more to drive people away from the faith than to bring them to it.

    We had a parish priest who would speak about his friend, who used to be a Jesuit priest. “He’s a Catholic priest now.” he would say,

    Once a Jesuit, always a Jesuit, until murdered.
    Oath

    I wonder if feminism has an oath.

  143. Son of Liberty says:

    @Jason
    @info

    Great examples of music. I tell ya, in music, modern car design, art, are exemplary results and reflections of the human mind, and what we see now… need not say more.

  144. Jason says:

    true Info:

    All the luxury cars “look” the same. All the minivans “look” the same. All eco-cars “look” the same. All trucks “look” the same. Even the colors today……nothing like that metallic green of the Fords of the 1970’s. That drab but durable bottle-brown of Mopars back then, and that blue of Chevrolets I remember from back then. Every minivan is now “white” every luxury car seems to be metallic gray and every truck is white with some sort of darker or silver trim….

    lol…..don’t get me started on “art” some of the “pop” art today in ads and in design in stores, malls, and advertising is passable and fits “the times” but I haven’t seen or liked any “big named” artist since the end of the 1980’s.

    Music. Just auto-tuned, and its all written by the same fifty odd people usually living in somewhere in Norway, Denmark, Sweden (of course) and maybe Finland. AbbA got their full revenge and “Ace of Bass” still is rolling in the money…..

  145. kryptonian51 says:

    If this is the current state of the church today I am glad that I’m no longer part of it.
    All it does is turn out beta cucks who do what the wife tells them to do
    I refuse to get married to any woman in the west for that very reason alone….all my power will be stripped once I dare to step foot in a modern church

  146. earlthomas786 says:

    We had a parish priest who would speak about his friend, who used to be a Jesuit priest. “He’s a Catholic priest now.” he would say,

    It’s funny because it’s true.

  147. kryptonian51 says:

    I have a theory

    If the “church” has capitulated to feminist rhetoric and sad to say it has, and if wives/women are not going to submit to the authority of men/husbands, then is the reason men are becoming such cucks and weak is because they know that if they want sex they had better do what they’re told otherwise their women won’t put out?

    Not offering excuses for women’s refusal to meet her husbands needs but could that part of the problem?

    If that is the root problem here in why churcians are complimentarians then this problem is larger than we think

  148. Spike says:

    Son of Liberty says:
    October 18, 2017 at 5:48 pm
    @Jason
    @info

    Great examples of music. I tell ya, in music, modern car design, art, are exemplary results and reflections of the human mind, and what we see now… need not say more.

    Son of Liberty: I thought it was just me, but everything is looking more demonic, by design.
    I’m happy to not be alone in seeing this!

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