She doesn’t need a man. Why hasn’t God sent her a husband?

I plan on getting around to part two of Monday’s post later in the week.  In the meantime, I see that Mandy Hale was busy on Twitter yesterday, with her own take on “Independence Day”.  Hale is the woman who wrote at Today’s Christian Woman that Waiting for Marriage Is Hard.

As I read the prayer out loud, something in me broke, and I started crying, all too vividly remembering the many times I’ve cried out to God about my desire for a family, children, traditions, people to grow old with, and a husband to hold me and tell me everything was going to be okay. I cried, remembering all the years of waiting, of enduring the space between “no longer” and “not yet,” and reliving all the moments when I’ve felt forgotten by the God who claims to love me. I recalled the countless instances of frustration and impatience and even despair as the birthdays pass, and my situation seemingly grows more and more hopeless. I might never find the simplest and most complicated of life’s blessings: someone to love who also loves me.

Hale has two different twitter accounts.  On her personal account yesterday she tweeted:

On her separate book/blog related Twitter account, The Single Woman, she tweeted:

And:

Edit:  I also found this youtube video she created, the top ten reasons she is not sad to be single:

 

Related: An attitude of abundance.

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309 Responses to She doesn’t need a man. Why hasn’t God sent her a husband?

  1. Hmm says:

    So I guess, since she has never depended on a man,
    – She was born by parthenogenesis.
    – All her school teachers were female.
    – Her mechanics have always been female.
    – Her trash is emptied by women.
    – She never drives on a highway, crosses a bridge, or rides in a car that had a man involved in making it.
    – She has never flown on an airplane with a male pilot.
    – Twitter was totally invented and implemented by women.

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  3. PokeSalad says:

    – All her school teachers were female.

    This one is most likely true. Male teachers, especially at the secondary-school level, are extremely uncommon these days.

  4. Novaseeker says:

    If you look at her website, under the “What I’m Reading Now” box, you find Sarah Bessey’s “Jesus Feminist”.

    All things considered, there are lots and lots of very lucky guys who dodged a bullet by not being saddled to this one. Through and through rebellion, full stop.

  5. She appears to be under the impression that a woman her age deserves to still be pedestalized, so that she may still look DOWN upon and criticize a multitude of potential (desperate) male suitors that will never come to her call.

    No Mandy. That’s not the case anymore. They’re aren’t coming. At least not for your hand.
    You are 35.
    Your health, fertility and your sexual best are all distant, blurred images within your life’s rear view mirror.

    Your attitude and ingratitude is the predictable outcome from allowing dozens of different men – men who invested nothing in you over the last 17 years – to treat you as little more than a receptacle for ejaculate.

    Her constant emotional ebb and flow – first of regret (“I’m not sad…”) and then of obstinence (slacking…content without you) – is not attractive or inspiring to men either. It’s a signal to us of mental disorder, profound pettiness, dependence and unhappiness.

    “And then, suddenly, in the silence of my warm and simple apartment, a still, small voice spoke words of comfort clearly and directly into my soul. I felt such beautiful reassurance of the Lord’s love and goodness, of his protection, of his care.”

    Whatever makes you feel better, Mandy. They’re still not coming for you.

  6. Lost Patrol says:

    Why hasn’t God sent her a husband?

    Because He is showing mercy to whatever poor sap that might have been?

    Cute girl. Incoherent at best, with high demonstrated potential for “contentious and vexing”. But you have to be able to see the pattern. That’s what Dalrock keeps bringing to the fore, patterns of behavior.

  7. pb says:

    What a waste.

  8. Poetentiate says:

    Life is hard enough without the woman in your life making it even harder, keeping you in the equivalent of a second job of making life easier for her. She has high maintenance/princess /snowflake written all over her.

  9. anonymous_ng says:

    I get it that not everyone is particularly photogenic, but based on her photos, I wouldn’t look twice if I saw her in public.

  10. Days of Broken Arrows says:

    OMG! “Inspirational quotes” written by a woman!! I’m usually the one posting these ridiculous sayings in the comments, so it’s great to see them in the main text. We need to shine a light on how ridiculous these quotes really are.

    Did I ever mention that in 2015, the Telegraph published an article on a study that found a correlation between people who post inspirational quotes and low intelligence? If not, here ’tis:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/12031212/Scientists-find-link-between-people-impressed-by-wise-sounding-profound-quotes-and-low-intelligence.html

  11. Novaseeker says:

    I get it that not everyone is particularly photogenic, but based on her photos, I wouldn’t look twice if I saw her in public.

    Yep, must be a taste issue, I agree. I can see how others might find her cute, but she’s nothing really special, and most of the images you see are with a lot of makeup and airbrushing as well. My guess, though, is that she sees *herself* as being 8+.

  12. thedeti says:

    True, that Mandy Hale isnt’ all that special. I’m pretty sure most would agree that she is certainly attractive enough to attract a variety of men, and certainly has attracted a variety of men, but:

    1) none of those men were satisfactory to her for one reason or another, or

    2) she made herself clearly unavailable for the men expressing interest in her; or

    3) she’s now an alpha widow, having been previously in a failed LTR.

  13. Lost Patrol says:

    Come on men. You know you’d look at her. The problem at this point is you already know her too well. Or is it that anonymous_ng lives up DC way near Nova, where the smorgasbord of riches makes a man lose appreciation for what some of the rest of us are dealing with?

  14. Anubis says:

    And another article on the same topic (blaming men for failing to ‘man up’ and all that for not enough Mr. Bigs(tm) to go around).

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/04/shortage-eligible-men-has-left-women-taking-desperate-steps/

  15. Hawk&Rock says:

    “The funny thing about a strong woman is that she doesn’t need you…she wants you, and if you start slacking, she’ll be content without you.”

    Hahaha. Talk about projecting what she finds attractive in a man onto women.

    To all women who are smart enough not to imbibe this low grade nonsense — men want to be needed by women. Show a man that you need him and respect him and you’ll never have to say “I love you” even a single time. Ever.

    Tell a man that if he starts slacking, you’ll be just fine without him and watch how fast he dumps your dumb ass for a woman who needs him. I mean … what kind of man wouldn’t want to lose at least half of everything he has earned if he “starts slacking.”

    This woman is an idiot. Period.

  16. This woman is utterly oblivious to her condition or what’s brought her to it. Slap the Jesus Fish Christian Kosher logo on Kate Bolick and you get Mandy Hale.

  17. And if you start slacking she’ll be fine without you

    And I’m the one who gets run up the flagpole for suggesting Christian men ought to institute Dread in their marriages?
    https://therationalmale.com/2015/11/03/christian-dread/

  18. Damn Crackers says:

    What a shame. She’d make a great stripper or assistant crack whore.

    BTW, are their any equivalents to nuns in protestant sects?

    “Get thee to a nunnery!”

  19. Days of Broken Arrows says:

    “BTW, are their any equivalents to nuns in protestant sects?”

    Yes, they’re called HR Directors. In the same way nuns regulated how boys and girls interacted at school dances, HR directors regulate how men and women behave toward each other in the workplace. Get too close and it’s detention!

  20. Frank K says:

    This reminds me of a story:

    A man was at his semi-rural home when there was a flash flood warning. A sheriff’s deputy stopped by his house and offered to evacuate him in his 4WD. That man rejected the offer, saying “God will save me.” The deputy shrugs and leaves.

    The flood waters rise and now the man’s house is now surrounded by raging flood waters. A man in a motor boat pulls up and offers him a ride to safety. Again he declines the offer, saying “God will save me”. The boater shrugs and leaves.

    The flood waters rise even more and the man has to climb onto the roof of this house. This time a helicopter arrives and offers to take him to safety Again he declines saying “God will save me”. The helicopter leaves.

    The flood waters rise even more and the man is swept away and he drowns. He finds himself in Heaven and personally encounters God.

    “Why did you let me drown? Why didn’t you do something to save me?”

    God replies. “I sent a deputy, a boat and a helicopter to save you. What more did you want?”

    I’m sure that the Lord has sent many fine men across these harpies paths, but just like the deputy, the boat and the helicopter, they weren’t good enough for her.

  21. Opus says:

    You must all hang around super-models: she is certainly cute enough and the habit she has of casting her eyes to the right is rather captivating. She is cute enough to wait and hope that some up-market Mr Big make her an offer she will not want to refuse; then all her reasons to remain single will vanish like snow in June – but tempus fugit. I would thus mark her as a 7. In my system (marks out of 10) there are no 10s except possibly the present FLOTUS. 66.66% of women are 4s 5s and 6s the half or more of those being 5s. The remaining 33% are divided equally between the less than and the more than average. Of the 17% who are better looking than average 9/10ths of those will be 7s and of the remaining 1/10th 9/10ths of those will be 8s. The genuine 9 is one in a thousand.

    The other day i read that all women see themselves as 7s – high enough to be considered good looking but not so high as to appear that they are boasting. It is statistically implausible that they are correct. Male attention is not proof of attractiveness, though female interest in men may be taken as proof of male SMV.

    One should always take notice of what women do and not what they say: I have thus been observing at a distance the strange goings on at VIDCON. It is tempting to see it as re-run of your War of Independence in that on one side we have British Males (Sargon of Akkad, and Computing Forever) and on the other American females (Anita Sarkeesian, Laci Green and Based Mama). If you have not heard: even though Sargon purchased a ticket and sat down quietly he was verbally abused from the stage by Sarkeesian as ‘Garbage Human’. The sexual tension between those two is obviously National Grid high, but unfortunately Sargon is married and he is not a bad looking chap either. Meanwhile he makes up with Laci Green and Computing Forever’s Dave Cullen has been making sweet music with Based Mama. How can Men’s rights activism get anywhere if the men keep fraternising with their feminist enemies.

    The more women shout that they do not want a man the more desperate one may assume they really are.

  22. Frank K says:

    “Life is hard enough without the woman in your life making it even harder”

    And too many women refuse to understand this.

  23. Hawk&Rock says:

    “Life is hard enough without the woman in your life making it even harder”

    What are you? Some kind of slacker?

    Man up. Put a ring on it. Work to make her happy everyday for the rest of your life. … or else…

    Hahaha. Silly broads.

  24. DrTorch says:

    She gets all the attention she craves but doesn’t have to do any of the work or submission part. The “Christian” publishing houses that enable this nonsense ought to be part of the purging. Along w/ the various pastors who don’t name this as the sin it is.

  25. anonymous_ng says:

    @Lost Patrol & Opus. I didn’t watch the video(ain’t nobody got time for dat). I just hit up Google images and didn’t find any on the first page that showed her having more than average looks.

    I don’t live in D.C., but I do live in what is purportedly the fittest state in the country, and near a major university. Thus, in my neck of the woods, she’s of average looks in her age cohort, and in comparison to all the coeds running around, she’s background noise.

  26. PokeSalad says:

    Slap the Jesus Fish Christian Kosher logo on Kate Bolick and you get Mandy Hale.

    Or apparently Sheryl Sandberg, since she’s now “Christian conference faculty.” *chuckle*

    RE: Hale, that is as clear a demonstration of female wall-smacking, epiphany-phase (with a thin coat of JAY-SUS!) rationalizing desperation as you are ever likely to find. We should (slightly) thank the phenomenon of ‘social-media’ for giving them a medium to post it all for the world to see and analyze.

  27. Darwinian Arminian says:

    Hale has two different twitter accounts. On her personal account yesterday she tweeted:

    There’s something kinda awesome about being able to say I’ve never had to rely on a man for one single thing.

    On her separate book/blog related Twitter account, The Single Woman, she tweeted:

    Sometimes you just need TIME. Time to date guys you’ll like but not love. Time to not date at all and figure out who YOU are. Time to become the woman you were meant to be.

    And:

    The funny thing about a strong woman is she doesn’t NEED you. She WANTS you. And if you start slacking she’ll be content without you.

    What a missed opportunity this is! I’d have thought that part of the point of maintaining two separate twitter accounts would be to run some sort of Jekyll and Hyde operation with each in tandem; one persona could express one set of ideals and aspirations that the other persistently sneered at and worked to undermine on every occasion. Just think of the possibilities! Sweet Christian Mandy could use one to tweet about her desire to be a good and worthy wife, while meanwhile Independent Feminist Mandy could use the other to chronicle what new thing she’d done today to SMASH MONOGAMY AND PATRIARCHY. And scrolling through each one side by side would even offer a visual explanation for why she’d never attained her most cherished dream of a happy marriage!

    As it is, her two twitter feeds just relay the same boring message to two different audiences: She has one to remind herself that she doesn’t need a man, and the other to remind everybody else that she doesn’t need a man and neither do they as well.

  28. Frank K says:

    “You must all hang around super-models: she is certainly cute enough”

    Glam shots have a way of doing that. The right make up, lighting, add a little photoshopping and voila, 10+ years are gone in the photo.

    She probably isn’t ugly, but even if she is cute, so what? She still feels entitled to a Brad Pitt.

  29. Lost Patrol says:

    @anonymous_ng

    You’re in good shape scenery-wise then. Luckily you don’t have time for this, and it can’t really be recommended, but imagine you’ve googled something along the lines of “The Women of Wal-Mart”. Halfway between that and your world is mostly what’s on offer around here – vast southern plains flyover zone.

    Nevertheless, the empowered, entitled, and condescending attitudes found among actual hotties soldier on largely intact.

  30. Gunner Q says:

    Damn Crackers @ 2:12 pm:
    “BTW, are their any equivalents to nuns in protestant sects?”

    “Church ladies”. Not a formal rank, they’re the women behind the scenes in local churches doing everything from secretarial work to event planning to the Spinster Social Club… which I presume is what Catholic nuns do. Just less structured.

    If you mean nunneries the institution then we used to have poorhouses and poor farms. They were places anybody could go when they were at the end of their wits, to be sheltered and put to such productive labor as could be found for them. No freeloading; the Prot work ethic was the ironclad rule even when operated by local government. All were closed following passage of the Social Security Act.

  31. Novaseeker says:

    @ Lost —

    Yeah different guys also have different tastes I think. Maybe DC has something to do with the scale in my head (it probably does). In any case, the picture you posted is from 2011, when she was 29. If you look at Google Images for more recent shots of her that are less glamour shot type (harder to find because she seems to carefully curate her images to include mostly glamour shots to be honest), she’s much more normal looking than her glamour shots suggest. Now, she’s fit, and, yes, she’s much better looking than Women-of-Wal-Mart, but the glamour shots (makeup, hair, lighting, angles all just right and then photoshop brushup on the back end) can make the high end average woman look better than she does live and in person. Live and in person this woman would get noticed by me, for certain, but not more than one look.

    I mean, heck, two waitresses last week at Red Robin here were more attractive, and that’s without lighting and angles and photoshop — but then again that could just be due to the DC area.

    Anyway, the overall point about this isn’t who does or doesn’t think she’s very good looking — it’s that enough men likely *do* that she has a fairly inflated view of herself, which is likely at least one reason why she’s in the situation she finds herself in, although trying to get her to admit that would be nearly impossible.

  32. The Question says:

    @Rollo Tomassi

    I doubt you need me to tell you this, but thought you might appreciate a field report from the front lines. Pretty much everything you’ve written about concerning the FI infiltrating the church I’ve seen confirmed repeatedly in recent months. Being “religious” or “Christian” man is now synonymous with being a beta.

    In a few years the true church will be in the catacombs again, except we’ll be reading unauthorized printings of Rational Male and some unofficial compilation of Dalrock’s best blog posts the same way the Underground Resistance read Steinbeck’s “The Moon Is Down” during World War 2. Meanwhile, the “official” church will be spouting the kind of garbage you and Dalrock pick apart on a weekly basis.

  33. Obstinatus Ludificator says:

    All the tweets and articles and memes that they put out about “strong women” reminds of a bit of a scene from the Italian TV series Gomorrah, where the mob boss asks a young woman about her shoulder tattoo of a lioness:

    “Your tattoo . . .”

    “I got it after dad died, it’s what he called me.”

    The don mixes his espresso for a few seconds.

    “If you were a lioness, you wouldn’t need the tattoo.”

  34. White Guy says:

    My opinion, not pretty at all, she’s got ‘man jaw’ (from watching 15 sec of that video). My guess is she’s been on BC for the last 20+ yrs. That stuff is has screwed her up six ways to Tuesday. My first thought was that she’s juicing’ like the body-builders. NOT FEMININE AT ALL! Yech. Enjoy your cats lady.

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  36. Frank K says:

    Just to clarify what a nun is. A num is a female monk, which means she lives in a cloister, AKA a convent, where she spends most of her time in prayer. She will rarely venture outside the cloister’s walls.

    What most people call nuns, are actually “sisters”. Much like nuns they belong to religious orders and take vows of celibacy, etc. But sisters do not live in the cloister, and they are not female monks. They tend to be overly educated and often teach at Catholic universities. They don’t do secretarial work and don’t wear habits (the penguin outfit) like nuns do, though some do wear a veil.

    Female religious vocations have been in death spiral in the US for decades, which is why almost all sisters you encounter will be rather old. I only know of one friend of my kids who is considering becoming a “nun/sister”, while I personally know a few young men who are in the seminary, who went to school with my kids. My parish currently has 7 young men at different stages in the seminary (I am not acquainted with all of them)

  37. Novaseeker says:

    You must all hang around super-models: she is certainly cute enough and the habit she has of casting her eyes to the right is rather captivating. She is cute enough to wait and hope that some up-market Mr Big make her an offer she will not want to refuse; then all her reasons to remain single will vanish like snow in June – but tempus fugit. I would thus mark her as a 7. In my system (marks out of 10) there are no 10s except possibly the present FLOTUS. 66.66% of women are 4s 5s and 6s the half or more of those being 5s. The remaining 33% are divided equally between the less than and the more than average. Of the 17% who are better looking than average 9/10ths of those will be 7s and of the remaining 1/10th 9/10ths of those will be 8s. The genuine 9 is one in a thousand.

    Opus —

    I agree with the percentages more or less, but the problem is that these markets are local.

    So what is a 7 in Des Moines isn’t going to be a 7 in Miami Beach. Not even close. You take a 7 from Miami Beach to Des Moines and she becomes a high 8 there due to the competition in the market. It’s all market based. So we tend to calibrate our own “take” on what is a 6,7 or 8 based on the local market where we live, for the most part, which leads to these kinds of interesting discussions — interesting but ultimately less important because, again, we all deal with our local market unless we are one of a true handful of globetrotters.

  38. Oscar says:

    @ Frank K says:
    July 5, 2017 at 2:21 pm

    “I’m sure that the Lord has sent many fine men across these harpies paths, but just like the deputy, the boat and the helicopter, they weren’t good enough for her.”

    Somehow, that variable (pickiness) always gets left out of the equation.

    Insufficient pickiness leaves people married and miserable. Excessive pickiness leaves people alone and miserable. Finding that middle ground is difficult, and too many Christians – especially Christian women – refuse to admit that middle ground even exists. Instead of training young women who want to marry to find the middle ground, they preach “never lower your standards! Never settle!”

    Imagine doing the same with other things in life.

    Never settle for a Camry or an Accord! Sure, they’re practical, dependable and even kind of fun (especially with the V-6), but you deserve a Bentley, or a Rolls Royce! Wait for God to bring you that Bentley or that Rolls Royce!

    But, what if you simply don’t have resources to buy a Bentley or a Rolls Royce, and never will? And what if those resources dwindle with time? Be prepared to ride the bus for perpetuity, I guess.

  39. anonymous_ng says:

    @Oscar, bravo!!! That’s a perfect comparison.

  40. Lost Patrol says:

    @Nova

    Yeah, I needed the best photo I could find to double down on my fake news. I get what you’re saying and clearly this woman was decent enough looking in her younger years to field a lot of offers, but she turned them all down. The whole process inflated her self-evaluation at the same pace the clock was running out. Now we get to see the atomic powered rationalization hamster in action.

    It’s all market based.

    True dat. I lived one year in DC. In certain parts of town at the right time of day, or night, the place is positively swarming with well dressed top notch looking career women. A lot of them are dangerous on multiple levels. Buyer beware.

  41. Jim says:

    Cunts are gonna cunt.

  42. Frank K says:

    “The whole process inflated her self-evaluation at the same pace the clock was running out.”

    Not to mention the fact that with each passing day she becomes less likely to reel in anyone who is remotely acceptable to her. Eventually she will be tweeting that she never wanted to be married and that riding the carousel was a blast.

  43. Novaseeker says:

    A lot of them are dangerous on multiple levels. Buyer beware.

    Oh absolutely. Hence “Roissy in DC”.

  44. patriarchal landmine says:

    for a 3d pig, she’s a high six.

    overall, 3d pigs only go up to a 5/10 when compared to the real competition, so adjusting for scale she would be a 3/10 at the most.

  45. She “doesn’t need a man” and “is not sad to be single” — yet complains how she has cried, “vividly remembering the many times I’ve cried out to God about my desire for a family, children, traditions, people to grow old with, and a husband to hold me and tell me everything was going to be okay…remembering all the years of waiting…I recalled the countless instances of frustration and impatience and even despair as the birthdays pass…and my situation seemingly grows more and more hopeless. I might never find the simplest and most complicated of life’s blessings: someone to love who also loves me.”
    Quite frankly, what does she expect? Besides the fact that her thought processes are a perfect example of ‘cognitive dissonance’, she seems to also be a possible schizophrenic.
    Based on the content of her two Twitter accounts, a perfect nickname for her would be “Sibyl” (after Shirley A. Mason, a woman who supposedly had multiple personalities).
    With the hazards that men face with today’s hostile misandric society as well as the danger of false accusations, even supposedly mentally healthy modern women are much too dangerous for men to associate with — those women with mental health problems are even more dangerous, comparable to time bombs and grenades (with the pins pulled).

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  47. Fiddlesticks says:

    OT, but here’s science validating one of Dalrock’s main points over the years. https://twitter.com/LandonSchnabel/status/882634059565936640

  48. Some Guy At Work says:

    > She probably isn’t ugly, but even if she is cute, so what? She still feels entitled to a Brad Pitt.

    Because she’s had Brad Pitt.

    (OK, not literally Brad Pitt, but she’s had men far above her SMV — but only for the night.)

  49. Patrick Albanese says:

    Allow me to parse her list…

    1) Doesn’t want to share a closet. She has lots of shoes.   i.e. She’s selfish
    2) Doesn’t want to share hot fudge cake.  i.e. She’s selfish
    3) Only likes to watch Chick Flicks.    i.e. She’s selfish
    4) Doesn’t want to have to get permission to go to the beach.   i.e. She’s only dated assholes.
    5) Doesn’t want to shave her legs.   i.e. She’s selfish
    6) First Kisses. i.e. Don’t even think about sex. Unless you’re an asshole.
    7) Messy Breakups.   i.e. She’s only dated assholes.
    8) Doesn’t want to be limited to the left, right or center of the bed.  i.e. She’s selfish.
    9) No fighting over the remote! i.e. She’s selfish.
    10) My way or the highway is still MY way. i.e. She’s selfish.

    So, she’s a very selfish woman who has only dated assholes in her life.

    I’ll wager cats don’t even want to live with her.

  50. Opus says:

    @Novaseeker

    I am afraid I have difficulty agreeing with your assertion. We all know what average women look like; should we be in a part of the world where all the women are supermodels we recognise that they are all 8s and higher. All I ever see are land beasts for I live in World of Tesco where the best looking person is an Asian Ladyboy on checkout – that is how bad it is and he keeps making eyes at me – and not Miami Beach where I have never ventured but that does not mean that I am under any illusion as to the intrinsic attractiveness of the inhabitants in Tesco even if (God help me) I become so thirsty that I succumbed to a tryst with a Wilder Beast. If people could not tell the difference between beauty and the lack thereof then Hollywood would not cast beautiful people as heroines – and when they do fail to do that they get the near-disaster of Ghostbusters.

    Would I really be rejecting 8s in favour of better looking women were I to be vacationing in Miami Beach and had the intro to the young ladies?. At that level where all is beauty then I imagine that beauty itself would like water for fish – taken for granted. Are you perhaps confusing beauty with sophistication and fitness of which D.C. must have a surfeit. The first time I ever saw people – en masse and in the middle of the day, jogging – out from their offices, was across the Mall in D.C. Never seen that before or since. Made me feel tired just watching.

  51. earlthomas786 says:

    This woman wants fried ice. She’s chose her path.

  52. earlthomas786 says:

    ‘My guess is she’s been on BC for the last 20+ yrs. ‘

    A vaild assumption. You can almost root crazy behavior on women starting there. The difference between a woman on bc and not is very noticeable.

  53. feministhater says:

    Her face is very long, rather like a horse. She also has that flabby part under the chin. Sorry, she’s a six at best with all that makeup on and the age is starting to show. Without the makeup she would drop to a 4 or 5. She’s better off single, both for her sake and for ours.

  54. earlthomas786 says:

    “Life is hard enough without the woman in your life making it even harder”

    They were made to be our helpmate. Many have forgot that in our current strong independent you go grrl brainwashing.

  55. Novaseeker says:

    Opus —

    It’s simpler.

    It’s that there are many more beautiful women in Miami than in Des Moines. (I am using these two places because I visit Miami about 3-4 times a year generally for business, and in the past year I’ve been in Des Moines three times as well.) So when there is a surfeit of beautiful women, the pool is bigger and the competition is keener, meaning it is harder for a woman to be an 8 in Miami than it is in Des Moines. If you take a Des Moines 8 to Miami she is probably a 7 there compared to the 8s in Miami because there are so many really beautiful women there. She is an 8 in Des Moines, in part, because the market is thinner there, and there is less competition. The reverse is also true. Take a woman who is a 7 in Miami and drop her in Des Moines and she is almost certainly an 8 there because she competes better in that market because there are fewer pretty girls there, she has a natural tan and so on. That isn’t to say that there aren’t pretty girls in Des Moines, there are — there are just far fewer of them than in Miami so if you are one of the fewer pretty ones, you’re practically automatically a 7 in Des Moines. No so in Miami, because Miami is flooded with beautiful women to a degree that is very lopsided, so the 7s in Miami are much more competitive than the 7s in Miami.

    The difference between DC and Miami is smaller, but it’s still there. It’s probably worth 0.5 point I would guess, either way, although DC and Miami are hard to compare because what is considered attractive differs a bit in each place (with DC valuing the things you talked about much more than Miami, and Miami valuing raw sexiness more than DC).

    I don’t know if you would be rejecting women you consider to be 8s in Miami who local men consider to be 7s — likely not, but that gets back to my point about “having the eyes of your local market”. If those women would be 8s in your local market, then in your eyes they are 8s, even if in the eyes of the guys who actually live in the Miami market they are 7s. Our eyes are all tuned to the markets we are used to, unless we are in the global market (and that’s a relative handful of people).

  56. Novaseeker says:

    “so the 7s in Miami are much more competitive than the 7s in Des Moines.”

  57. Jew613 says:

    She has the thousand cock stare. She might still stick the landing and get married but G-d help whoever puts a ring on it.

  58. anonymous_ng says:

    @Novaseeker, do you go to Miami proper, or South Beach?

    I was recently in Grand Rapids Michigan, and beauty seemed very unevenly distributed. Amongst the monied crowd, it was more common, but still somewhat rare, amongst the rest of the population, very rare indeed. Then, I wondered how many of those women were from the area, or did they meet at university and move there.

    In comparison, South Beach is overflowing with beautiful women. I’ve found few places in my experience that can compare to an evening at the hotel Delano, or the Shore Club. Perhaps a few parts of Dallas.

  59. Oscar says:

    @ Novaseeker says:
    July 5, 2017 at 5:54 pm

    “Take a woman who is a 7 in Miami and drop her in Des Moines and she is almost certainly an 8… ”

    Drop her in Barrow, Alaska and she’s a 12.

  60. Novaseeker says:

    do you go to Miami proper, or South Beach

    I go to Miami but often stay over on the Beach. When I was writing this stuff, I had South Beach in mind, although to be honest there isn’t *that* much of a dropoff if you are in Coral Gables or Brickell, it’s just a bit less skin. But, yes, South Beach is special — I don’t think there’s anyplace that is as concentrated with beautiful women (it is quite a small area geographically really) as South Beach is — at least not that I’ve been to.

  61. snowdensjacket0x0x0 says:

    Not fat, long hair, so those are two pluses. Thirty five? Lololol. I’m 37, my wife is better looking, thinner, 26, and not in feminist rebellion. Really who does she think guys who get to my age and find themselves single are going to try to date and marry? Certainly not her.

  62. Adam says:

    My wife is about to have our second kid, and it got me thinking about the nature of God’s blessings. I concluded that His blessings not only give us some sense of glory associated with accomplishment, but they also give us additional responsibility requiring more maturity: a house, a spouse, a child, a promotion, etc.

    I’m sure Mandy wants the glory and accomplishment associated with marriage, but its clear she doesn’t want the responsibility. Nowhere is there a discussion of what she would do for her husband and family, only what she wants from them.

  63. Casey says:

    That top ten list is the ratings of a selfish little girl……
    God help me…. Women wear their disdain for Men on their sleeves presently.

    In an unrelated story…….. There are no good men out there.

    Wash…..rinse…..repeat

  64. @Patrick Albanese:

    Bingo. Her postings scream selfishness and she’s got just enough looks, when she was younger, to be worth it for a night, but you can quickly tell why a guy would be gone in the morning.

    On Novaseeker & Opus: Location, Location, Location! But, seriously, there is something of a country-wide scale, but everyone deals in locality. The “best looking girl in town” is almost always going to end up in some big city really rapidly because she’s a valuable commodity & knows it.

    Thus, anything above “average” ends up graded on a local curve. Everything 6 through 9 is location adjusted. 10s are 10s.

    Ms. Hale probably had just enough cultural conditioning to jump off the NYC carousel early in hopes of finding a husband, but she’s alpha widowed herself.

  65. David J. says:

    Hale is recognizable to someone who has lived a long time in the South as a Southern Belle. She has the sassy (grating) twang, the big hair, the surfeit of jewelry, and the attitude. Her bio on her site isn’t detailed enough to know for sure, but I’d wager she was a sorority girl at a large public university — Bama, Auburn, UGA, etc. She’s been spoiled and overrated her whole life; her posse of girlfriends has both encouraged each other in (bad) group behavior and shredded each other individually when an attractive man is involved. She’ll expect to boss and put down any man who marries her.

    It also strikes me that with her various books, videos, and social media accounts, she has a vested financial stake in being single. It’s her identity and her source of income. Even if she could find a man who would want her with her negatives, she has set herself up to not want/need him more than her public identity and livelihood.

  66. Jason says:

    Oh come on, she’s cute but what of it? She’s a pretty gal…but you know…..when I hear any woman use the terms ‘strong / modern / independent’ in the same sentence or separately with implied meaning to the other words….I don’t care how hot, cute, pretty she is. I know she will be a handful because you can’t talk to or lead a woman who “knows it all” anyway. In dating. In marriage, and even in friendship.

    A strong woman doesn’t advertise how strong and amazing, or talented, or gifted, or special or unique she is. Her actions show and demonstrate this without a Twitter account, Facebook, ebooks, or a stunning resume of how empowered she is. A woman like that has a comfort with herself and these women ARE the ones who are married in good, centered, loving and sexually healthy marriages.

    Look, this Many person seems like she has quite a following, good for her. Bad for all the women who are taking her vapid advice

  67. BuenaVista says:

    Among the many disconnects is her expectation, I guess, that her Hallmark Cards philosophizing is interesting or meaningful except to anyone other than other self-promoting cat ladies. The 30’s and 40’s women I’ve dated (the ones who’ve never married) actually, and often, bear resentment that there are so few male equivalents (a lifelong single, preferably interested in insipid philosophizing) available.

    Instead, we come with a couple of decades of marital experience, a couple of children, a sense of boundaries, and a sense of caution. We come with an ex-wife. This really, really demonstrates to the cat ladies how much they’ve missed in life, by choice. It makes them mad.

    Whoever marries this chick had better have a weird kink for Resting Bitch Face, think he needs a woman to learn how best to improve himself, and understand that her social proof will be her circle of frustrated girlfriends.

  68. Jason says:

    Breaks out into guy mode:

    I lived in San Francisco from 1996-2009. My parents came to visit several times when I lived in this beautiful but very,very shallow city. My father who came of age in the mid 1950’s was dumstruck when he first saw all the slender, pretty women around. He could not believe how “beautiful” the women were. “Jay, every woman here is slender! It looks like the 1950’s thru the 1970’s here! You have a nice view in this city for sure son!”

    I joked with a reply of “Hey, we’re all starving ourselves to pay the super-expensive rent here,” as I sipped my espresso and then I added “Oh, and the steep hills, everyone walks in this town! Even when it’s raining!”

    Just about zero practicing Christians in San Francisco, and the few who do are very much like this Mandy Character. “breaking the glass steeple” types of women, more concerned about not being “judgmental” and thinking Jesus was the world’s first real socialist.

    I didn’t want to know about that. No Christian man with any sense did.

  69. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    So I guess, since she has never depended on a man,

    Saw this inane statement on a some teenage girl’s t-shirt: Women need more sleep than men because fighting the patriarchy is exhausting.

    Really? And in what “exhausting” way does a teenage girl “fight the patriarchy”? Everything she has — Facebook, Twitter, TV shows, MP3 music files, the high school building, the food on her plate, etc. — were GIVEN to her, free of charge, by men. Or paid for by a father (who might or might not be permitted to see her). Yet in her fantasies, she’s already exhausted from fighting the patriarchy every day.

    I fear the newer generation of females — Generation Z? — is even more broken than are the Millennials, Xers, or Boomers.

  70. Cecil Henry says:

    Single woman: state as husband. Men as slaves to the weaponized bureaucracy that extracts the resources.

    No need to ever be accountable to men, to recognize your dependency, or have a conscience for your immorality.

    You aren’t lovable either in such a state. Repent ‘single woman’

  71. Kevin says:

    She looks like a pretty lady. The current climate hurts men and women. She probably has no idea the koolaid she drank is choking off marriage. Pity is the most appropriate emotion. Poor girl may be too old before she figures it out.

  72. Canon Rex says:

    And people are shocked when I suggest a female marry at 22… saying “that’s way too young.”

    Another push I’ve seen for you-go-guurrl become educated career woman is “what if the husband dies? She needs to provide for herself.”

    Anyone know some responses to that one?

  73. Swanny River says:

    Jason, your SF tale is a sad statement of America, especially with that being one of our best cities, yet the church thinks isn’t concerned a bit and doesn’t even talk in the biblical way you did. They just talk about the food and charm.
    Adam, great point, I pray to remember that as something to look for when my son comes of age, God willing.
    Earl, do you think they forget about being helpmeets, or more likely, think a helpmeet is a strong independent woman and believe the pastors and Sandberg that a godly man is a servant leader looking for an equal partner? I think they think about being a helper, and think that being a dude in a skirt IS being a helpmeet. It is why they are so disappointed in men, because they aren’t finding enough 6 ft tall pastors who want a pastoress wife. Sure, some just want badboys, but the educated Christian ones want, what Dalrock so aptly phrased, crossdressers.

  74. Swanny River says:

    Canon Ex,
    Boxer would rightly say to be polite and professional in response. If you concerned with being successful, then my suggestion is to thank them for their insight and tell them you weren’t thinking about their well-being and congratulate them on their wellspring of compassion. Then I would tell them that it is too bad men like them weren’t around before government aid was there to help women, because otherwise the widows would be subject to the words of Paul, which was a horrible and mean outcome compared with modern America, where your friends great thinking is finally manifesting.

  75. Swanny River says:

    I meant to write, “if you are not concerned …”

  76. BuenaVista says:

    Canon Rex: Life insurance. Men who can’t afford life insurance aren’t ready for marriage and children.

    She’s Christian like I’m Zarathustran. She worships herself and, in Scott Adams’ lingo, plays a movie in her head in which she is a long-suffering, superior human being; her superiority explains her spinsterhood. Her hallucinations about neo-Christian “personal development” and noble independence is just so much virtue signalling; she’s making a virtue of making poor decisions for 20 years. She’s also imagining that 20 years of bad habits will be magically erased overnight when she locks down Prince Charming (after the “destination wedding.”)

    The reason why I don’t think pity, Kevin, is the correct response (except from an abstract distance) is that women like this are damaged, angry and selfish — and your blue pill Average Good Joe will never see what hit him. Basically, she’s a grifter, only she’s hustling via religious and psychobabble key words. (She thinks in Twitter tags.) I see zero probability she can even pull off a long con — people who don’t know how to be married, because they’ve never been married, shouldn’t be married.

    I have a friend in the IC who’s never been married, either, and she’s been pressing me to join her at her current station overseas. She says all the right things, and she’s a lot smarter than this bimbo Cole. But when I ask her, “Well, if you really wanted to be coupled up, you would have had a relationship longer than two years by now, right?” Granted, everyone in that business gets divorced, but even that is an order of magnitude more informed than “It’s time — it’s time I settled down and you’re the man.”

  77. BuenaVista says:

    Errata: meant Hale, not Cole.

  78. Canon Rex says:

    Thanks. I figured government aid and life insurance, or some combination of those two. So much welfare exists now of days anyways.

  79. Canon Rex says:

    Ha, what if we *gasp* — go back to the days where family/relatives would take care of eachother if the man passed away! — Nah, family must be crushed.

  80. Oscar says:

    Hey, gents: did you know that “‘Wonder Woman’ might be the most accurate on-screen depiction of Biblical womanhood”? No, really! You can read all about it right here!

    http://www.marilettesanchez.com/marilettesays//wonder-woman-might-be-the-most-accurate-on-screen-depiction-of-biblical-womanhood-and-heres-why

  81. BuenaVista says:

    Anyone who is otherwise buying cars on time can buy a metric ton of life insurance by keeping the car for 10 years instead of five. I’ve had staff who spend $8.00-$10.00/day — at Starbucks. And on and on. Most of us, in our 20’s, went through a period where we had to save up for toilet paper, and it does focus the mind.

  82. Lost Patrol says:

    Nice find Oscar. A real complement to Dalrock’s WW posts. Wonder Woman the biblical. It’s a good thing Marilette explained it, because I did not see that coming.

    Again with the crying (author and some female commenters) during battle scenes where WW kicks ass. There is some weird pyscho-social deal going on there with all the women crying to demonstrate their oneness with WW’s fighting prowess?

  83. Swanny River says:

    Canon Rex,
    I am assuming the believer who responds to you that way isn’t asking the question genuinely. I just think the question comes from lack, or arrogance, so I lose my patience and start working at giving them an opportunity to see their error by pointing out that they are assuming you are thoughtless or heartless.
    Speaking of questions,what is IC Buena?

  84. Oscar says:

    @ LP

    My wife shared that one with me. Right off the bat I thought, “this is Dalrockian gold”!

  85. DeNihilist says:

    Way off topic here Dal, but I know you are an Earhart fan. Seems that her and the “navigator” survived the crash only to be caught by the Japs.

    http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/amelia-earhart-survived-plane-crash-history-channel-1202487563/

  86. Eduardo the Magnificent says:

    @David J
    “It also strikes me that with her various books, videos, and social media accounts, she has a vested financial stake in being single.”

    I noticed this, too. For her to do a 180 at this stage and become a SAHM would pretty much shatter her reputation amongst her followers. She’d have to marry a man who makes twice what she does to pull that off. How many (available) men does that leave her to choose from? It would take a miracle, but if she plays her cards right, a book every three years might set her for life by 45. Looks like she’s right on schedule.

  87. Novaseeker says:

    It also strikes me that with her various books, videos, and social media accounts, she has a vested financial stake in being single.

    Yeah, I had that idea as well, David J.

    I think she’s in a similar bind to Kate Bolick, as Rollo mentions above. Both deeply invested financially in being professionally single. In theory, you could parley that into a transition to being a wife with the same audience, but even for a “Christian” like Mandy it would be a harder sell to the more “core” singletons of her audience (WGTOW is a good way to describe them).

    In any case it’s only one way of many in which she has boxed herself in. At her age, with her looks (again, guys, not my cup, but I can see how others may find her cute), she certainly has had a few rides around the castle so to speak. That also boxes her in, psycho-sexually, at this stage.

    Like Rollo said, it’s the Christian Kate Bolick, just a few years younger.

  88. Just Saying says:

    You are 35.

    That says it all… Her best years are behind her – definitely over played her hand. But a lot of women do that. Some manage to pull it out by getting desperate and finding a guy that’s willing to take left-overs. Most don’t… Reality is like getting slapped in the face by a wet-fish for a lot of women that age, and they react about as well…

  89. Amstrat says:

    Mandy Hale can’t find a Handy Male…

  90. Hank Flanders says:

    constrainedlocus
    No Mandy. That’s not the case anymore. They’re aren’t coming. At least not for your hand.
    You are 35.
    Your health, fertility and your sexual best are all distant, blurred images within your life’s rear view mirror.

    Novaseeker

    In any case, the picture you posted is from 2011, when she was 29.

    She’s older than that:

    http://thesinglewoman.net/2016/06/17/stop-apologizing-high-standards/

  91. Hank Flanders says:

    Frank K
    Eventually she will be tweeting that she never wanted to be married and that riding the carousel was a blast.

    Looking Glass
    Ms. Hale probably had just enough cultural conditioning to jump off the NYC carousel early in hopes of finding a husband, but she’s alpha widowed herself.

    Novaseeker
    At her age, with her looks (again, guys, not my cup, but I can see how others may find her cute), she certainly has had a few rides around the castle so to speak.

    I like how in this article she talks a lot, but doesn’t say anything, which I think says a lot in and of itself:

    https://www.glamour.com/story/virginity-popular-single-woman

    I also like how the headline includes the words “My Take” and then proceeds to not include her take.

    Hale’s Glamour article reminds of this Q&A session in which Andy Stanley has multiple opportunities to mention marriage as the proper context for sex but never explicitly does so. (Starting at 22:16. Also, just for kicks, notice how Stanley brings up “mutual submission” at 49:39):

  92. They Call Me Tom says:

    I’m in southern california… If 5 is average, I’d say she was in 6 territory, simply because she isn’t carrying an extra 50 lbs. Without her hair done, I suspect she’d look a little mannish. With a pleasant personality, she’d be on the right side of the scale. With an unpleasant I’m-an-independent-woman personality… she’d be on the wrong side quick.

    She’s not ugly, but she’s not anywhere near attractive enough to be high maintenance.

  93. CSI says:

    Has anyone else called Mandy out on her bullshit? I googled her, and Dalrock is the only negative review I could find on her.

    But her whole shtick is being the “sassy” “kickass” unmarried Christian girl. People love the potential over the realization. The exciting unmarried princess over the boring married queen. But she’s getting a little old to be a princess isn’t she? But perhaps she could get married, quickly divorce, and then remarket herself as a feel-good divorce adviser selling tacky knick-knacks for plucky divorced women. This should extend her career considerably.

  94. feministhater says:

    But perhaps she could get married, quickly divorce, and then remarket herself as a feel-good divorce adviser selling tacky knick-knacks for plucky divorced women. This should extend her career considerably.

    Step right up and claim your prize CSI! Haha! I jest, but man do I feel sorry for the gent who falls into that trap.

  95. American says:

    Dearest Mandy,

    I will NEVER be the one that provides you access to the uber-powerful levers of our radically feminist body of anti-male familial law. Find another sucker. One of the reasons my life is great is because I don’t have THAT lorded over me by anyone whatsoever, past or present. 🙂

    -American MGTOW

  96. Spacetraveller says:

    Hmmmm,

    Opus,
    That ‘darting of the eyes to the right’ that ‘captivates’ you – it may not be normal, I am afraid to say, old chap.
    I think it may be a neurological abnormality that MAY be a side effect of some neuroleptic drugs/antidepressants, but it may also be a natural ‘tic’ which is also a neurological phenomenon that may accompany a pathological state…
    On studying it at length (‘cos I have nothing better to do, lol!) it is not the same as the charming mannerisms that some people have, which do seem endearing/captivating. This lady’s darting eye movements are anything but normal…

    Everyone,
    I read the comments on her blog. Yes, it sounds like a chorus of ‘you go girls’ who do really seem to have heart-wrenching cognitive dissonance. The only one person who I genuinely feel for is a woman who is waiting with a true sense of holiness and wishes to remain virginal until she is married, and from what she says, is being blown off by supposedly Christian men because she won’t comply with their wish to… you know….

    This Mandy Hale is marketing herself as a ‘single woman’ for a profit. If and when she does get married, it will be a short hop to ‘divorced woman’ which again she will market and profit from. We have all seen this pattern before.

    If she were genuinely wishing to marry and STAY married for life, the title of her blog would be ‘the not yet married woman’ or some similar title. You attract what you focus on. Her focus is on the ‘single’ status for a (profitable) reason. Perhaps to play on the ‘sassy’ ’empowered’ angle of (false) womanhood that is so popular these days.

    Normally, I would say, ‘how sad’ and ‘what a waste’.

    But on reflection, I am happy for the man who would have married her. Like others have pointed out, she would have wreaked havoc on him and any children they would have had. A massive bullet dodged, yes.

    There are many nicer women out there (and a little less selfish to boot!) to marry, for the marriage-minded men in the Christian community. This one, better give her a wide berth. Nothing but bad news, I am afraid to say.
    (I wouldn’t ‘diss on a sister’ unless it were for the greater good. In this case, yes, it IS for the greater good).

  97. earlthomas786 says:

    We can talk about her physical looks all day long…but it’s her heart that is unattractive. That’s a main reason why I don’t get memezmerized by looks anymore…and figure out what her personality is.

  98. S. Chan says:

    Anubis, July 5 at 1:48 pm, linked to an article in The Telegraph. A quote from the article is below.

    “As a feminist I think it’s great that women are doing so well but I think there has been a cost that has been paid,” she said, warning that many had been left in “sadness and isolation”.

    Feminism is great, but it has left many women in sadness and isolation.

  99. CSI says:

    You are right Spacetraveller, her charade that she has been unable to find a husband is offensive to Christian girls that are genuinely having trouble finding husbands. They should be insulted, not supporting her.

  100. earlthomas786 says:

    ‘Feminism is great, but it has left many women in sadness and isolation.’

    You mean empowered independence isn’t as great as all the pretty memes the create says? I suppose that ‘ it is not good for man to be alone’ has a lot of truth to it.

  101. Mr. Roboto says:

    @Dalrock
    Take a look of this!!!

    “Maybe you’re still single because God is trying to teach you another kind of love, the kind of love that you give to your friends, your family, your job and yourself. Maybe he wants you to learn how to live without the constant reassurance and validation you need from a partner and maybe God knows that your journey is full of traveling, self-exploration and movement that getting tied to a partner is not going to be the right fit for you. Maybe he’s teaching you how to walk before you run.”

    http://thoughtcatalog.com/rania-naim/2017/02/maybe-god-is-making-you-wait-because-he-wants-you-to-learn-that-theres-no-timeline-for-anything-in-life/

  102. Novaseeker says:

    She’s older than that

    Aha, good find. So our fair one is 38 this month.

    Well … I knew someone in her shoes who got married around that age (I think it was exactly 38) about 6-7 years ago, and immediately had 2 kids (like 2 within 20 months or so). This woman was a looker (prettier than Mandy here), and definitely undershot when it came to the hubs, but it was “last call”, as it were, in terms of having kids. Still married today, about 7 years in or so. So it *can* happen, but this person didn’t have a legacy of 10 years or so writing about how great it is to be single and so on like Mandy does.

  103. Shark says:

    She doesn’t want to share her closet (with its 67 pairs of shoes)? Any sane man doesn’t even want to share the same zip code as this collection-of-red-flags-with-boobs numbskull.

  104. elspeth says:

    I am acquainted a woman who is 53 and her kids are 14 and 11. She too was very pretty at the time. She makes a good deal more money than her husband, who is a few years younger but he’s handsome and they seem happy enough.

    It’s not unheard of for a woman to marry for the first time at 35 or even 40, and still have kids. We had our youngest when I was 37.

    From what I can tell however, the Mandy Hale’s of the world are thin on the ground in reality. Most Christian women would genuinely love to be married by age 25. The women making all the noise about waiting and being perfectly happy single and not needing no man are NOT the norm.

    However, I am not sure what a woman, even one who isn’t necessarily passively waiting, is supposed to do when it simply isn’t happening. What should she do besides find peace and contentment in the state which she is in?. Presenting as a desperate, baby rabies infected creature is certainly not exactly an alluring look nor helpful for attracting a husband.

  105. Luke says:

    Anyone that takes pity on the broad in the OP, mail her a copy of Sylvia Anne Hewlett’s book “Creating a Life”. It’s about the biological and emotional issues attendant to older would-be mothers. (Hint: they’re typically both unsuccessful and devastated.) It’s 4 bucks used including postage last time I checked its price on Scamazon.com.

    Further, she’d do well to get a color copy of the famous chart of relative SMVs for men vs. women, and the Teachmann bar graph predicting marriage longevity for women based upon their premarital partner count. (No one here believes her “N” is <8, do they? Not me…)

  106. Luke says:

    Shark says:
    July 6, 2017 at 8:15 am
    “She doesn’t want to share her closet (with its 67 pairs of shoes)? Any sane man doesn’t even want to share the same zip code as this collection-of-red-flags-with-boobs numbskull.”

    Try “boobLETS”. She looks like she’s got scanty-Cs at best. She’s a six, tops, and that only because her weight is under control and she has decently long, relatively-straight hair (if neither natural blonde/red, which would have given her 0.5+ or so).

  107. Frank K says:

    “maybe God knows that your journey is full of traveling, self-exploration and movement”

    AKA, riding the carousel.

  108. Frank K says:

    “Mandy Hale can’t find a Handy Male…”

    That makes me think of Red Green’s motto: “If the women don’t find you handsome, they should at least find you handy”

    Women like our star Mandy categorize men as:

    Handsome: Alphas (well, some; other “qualities” are needed)
    Handy: beta orbiters.

  109. anonymous_ng says:

    Mandy Hale reminds me of the discussion about Lolo Jones from a year or two ago. They’ve both priced themselves out of their MMV.

  110. imnobody00 says:

    Just because I’m 37 and single, does that mean I should have to compromise every standard I’ve ever had for myself and for the person I hope to marry just so I can actually get married? Does single at 37 have to = SETTLING, just to avoid winding up alone?

    I didn’t wait this long and come this far just to give up and settle for OKAY. Or even for GOOD. Just “good” or “okay” is not going to cut it for me when it comes to the person I spend the rest of my life with. And I’m not going to apologize for that.

    Well, I think this says it all.

  111. Canon Rex says:

    Good points. I remember a few years ago the whole fad was for every girl to have Starbucks in the morning. Now it has transitioned more to Sonic breakfasts. Or maybe both.

    If they can afford $5 each morning on fast food or coffee, yeah, drop it for Life Insurance. Give it up for a month, that’s over half a new car payment right there. I looked up average life insurance policies, it’s laughable to say that it would be an issue.

    (I’m one of the younger red-pillers, so I’m more out of the loop when it comes to life insurance.)

  112. Dalrock says:

    @Elspeth

    From what I can tell however, the Mandy Hale’s of the world are thin on the ground in reality. Most Christian women would genuinely love to be married by age 25. The women making all the noise about waiting and being perfectly happy single and not needing no man are NOT the norm.

    Hale and the others matter not so much because of what they are doing, but what they are teaching. They are selling what is being demanded. And what is demanded is a cover for feminism, the ability to claim that Christian women are dying to marry before age 25, but weak men are screwing it up. As a result, young Christian women are forced to engage in the same feminist script as their secular counterparts.

  113. Dalrock says:

    @Amstrat

    Mandy Hale can’t find a Handy Male…

    Hilarious! Welcome Amstrat.

  114. Spike says:

    Ms Hale is a sad case, a snapshot of all that is wrong with evangelical “churchian” culture* and in a wider sense, the Western woman.
    Indoctrinated in birth to spurn the natural limits of personal freedom by Liberalism, steeped in feminism to be “anything you want to be..” and never told that she must take marriage seriously. Rollo Tomassi said it best: At her sexual peak (21-23 max) she must trade her sexual capital [hotness] for social capital [marriage].
    Ms Hale and her secular counterparts are literally surrounded by suitable suitors in her tertiary education and church lives. And yet, with the siren whisper of “exciting career” exotic travel and casual sex that she can be forgiven for by an ever-willing churchian culture, she spurns any suitors as they are demeaning to her.
    When the realisation WALL hits, inevitably Ms Hale and her secular counterparts will always double down to various degrees. Unable to admit they have been sold a lie, they will double down by saying “men are intimidated by a strong woman…”, “perhaps I’m lesbian…” etc etc.
    Under such circumstances, the best thing a man can do, and the worst thing for them, is to agree with them.
    “Don’t need a man? Okay. You don’t need me. Have a good life…”
    * My thoughts about churchian culture: Modern evangelicalism from 1960s to 1980s made a mistake of thinking that they could combine the better aspects of the various liberalisation revolutions and graft them onto a Christian framework. They did not realise the whole of those liberalisations / revolutions were rotten. The result has been a collapse in Christian culture, a demographic time bomb in aging and general unhappiness.

  115. Swanny River says:

    Ok, my base curiosity overtook my better senses, so I looked for more pictures. More than good enough, given a man’s individual tastes.
    I like Dalrock’s photo of her but was expecting a heifer when I saw the title of the original post. I think she looks good enough to be confident that a lack of men is not a significant part of the problem.
    Elspeth,
    I don’t think the problem you raise can be significantly changed in our atomized culture. More and more i see the solution including husbands expected to teach their silent wives at home and a likewise reduction of the emphasis of a pastor/scholar who is the celebrity of the local church. I see a pastor’s role changing to more of a traveling role to meet with husbands to help them maintain frame and courage. Then the problem you speak of will become more appropriately sized.

  116. imnobody00 says:

    Another problem is that women don’t perceive the loss of their own physical attractiveness. Nobody has explained the reason yet and I am really curious.

    You see women divorcing during their forties and expecting to ride the carousel with the same type of men they were able to attract during their twenties.

    I am positive that Mandy Hale still sees herself as the hot twenty y.o. girl she once was. Hence her high standards.

  117. imnobody00 says:

    Answering to myself (how pathetic is that?), I guess the problem is that it is difficult for women to distinguish between men who want to have sex with them and men who want to have a long-term relationship with them. This creates a false impression of abundance.

  118. Novaseeker says:

    Nobody has explained the reason yet and I am really curious.

    It’s due to the incessant attention from men that they get. Even someone like Mandy gets tons and tons and tons of online male attention, and likely flirtation in real life, too. It’s just from men who are either (1) not good enough, (2) not Christian enough or (3) otherwise disqualified. That is what fuels the “where are all the good men” meme instead of the “I am getting to be over the hill” meme. The latter is suppressed by the colossally massive amounts of male attention the pretty women get, even at 35, 40, 45, etc.

  119. Ben Sake says:

    shes free to simply remarry if he dies.

  120. Swanny River says:

    Novaseeker,
    Yes, right-on. And what fuels and enables all these isolated agents, acting without restraint? As I keep railing on, I think a large part of it is due to overwrought politeness, which is a unchristian unwillingness to get close to Christian brothers and sisters. We have a tiring amount of church activities and talk about sports, but not much of any meaningful and biblical fellowship. Our way is clean, that is true, nothing messy like Paul gets involved with, but its also saltless and without power.

  121. Boxer says:

    imnobody00 writes:

    Answering to myself (how pathetic is that?), I guess the problem is that it is difficult for women to distinguish between men who want to have sex with them and men who want to have a long-term relationship with them. This creates a false impression of abundance.

    It’s simpler than that. Women like Mandy (i.e. ho’) don’t care about long-term relationships. They know that they can make their own money and have a good time without a husband.

    The confusion in this case is that the ho’ pretends to be a Christian woman, in order to scam the faithful to make a living. Her con is to explain how she can pretend to give other Christians advice in popular media, while still not living the life of a decent religious woman as described in the text. Hence all these weird rationalizations, that have nothing to do with the truth.

    Even if an individual ho’ might occasionally dream of having a normal family with a husband and kids, she is committed to the prospect of “it’s better to burn out than fade away” and she’d never do what it takes (which isn’t much) to land a man and have a respectable life.

    Incidentally, any one of you guys who thinks she’s serious about all this religious nonsense is fooling himself. She’s the type of woman who fucks strangers in the unisex bathroom of the nightclub on weekends. It’s obvious she’s a straight up ho’ from the start.

    Regards,

    Boxer

  122. Hank Flanders says:

    Novaseeker
    Well … I knew someone in her shoes who got married around that age (I think it was exactly 38) about 6-7 years ago, and immediately had 2 kids (like 2 within 20 months or so). This woman was a looker (prettier than Mandy here), and definitely undershot when it came to the hubs, but it was “last call”, as it were, in terms of having kids. Still married today, about 7 years in or so. So it *can* happen, but this person didn’t have a legacy of 10 years or so writing about how great it is to be single and so on like Mandy does.

    Elspeth
    I am acquainted a woman who is 53 and her kids are 14 and 11. She too was very pretty at the time. She makes a good deal more money than her husband, who is a few years younger but he’s handsome and they seem happy enough.
    It’s not unheard of for a woman to marry for the first time at 35 or even 40, and still have kids. We had our youngest when I was 37.

    imnobody00
    Well, I think this says it all.

    I figure Mandy probably will get married and have biological kids of her own, and then, I think she’ll likely to claim that her marriage and family were all that she’d hoped they would be and that the wait was worth it and that she’s glad she “stuck it out,” “didn’t settle,” and “stayed true to herself,” etc, regardless of whether or not these things are true.

    I think it’s unlikely she or any woman in her position of having built a business on being single and not settling would switch and have a Lori Gottlieb moment. Besides, how could she? If she did, she’d be telling her husband that she “settled” for him.

  123. Novaseeker says:

    However, I am not sure what a woman, even one who isn’t necessarily passively waiting, is supposed to do when it simply isn’t happening. What should she do besides find peace and contentment in the state which she is in?. Presenting as a desperate, baby rabies infected creature is certainly not exactly an alluring look nor helpful for attracting a husband.

    Elspeth —

    I think DS had a lot of good things to say about how Christians who are looking to marry can go about a search for a spouse in a very deliberate and focused way. I don’t think it’s about being desperate, it’s about being frank about wanting to be married and making it a priority in your life to find someone to marry — but at the same time not going about that by something stupid like 100 dates in 100 days or whatever. DS has a post about this, and about what he did — I’d think a woman would have to go about it a bit differently than a man, but the completely passive “wait until he comes knocking” approach isn’t going to work today given the small numbers of actual Christian people (not nominals) who are looking to marry. It isn’t easy, we have discussed it before. But in any case one sure-fire way *not* to succeed is to avoid being intentional about the search and bury oneself in the busy-ness, and fun, of single life, even going so far as to celebrate its loveliness, as our guest star here does — and then double down by encouraging others to do the same thing. That’s shameful, and also spiteful because it brings other unsuspecting young women down the same path, which will often lead to failure.

  124. DEN1 says:

    I heard Dr. Jack Graham this morning, cover this subject in his sermon, ‘God’s Grace for a Barren Place’. Seems to confirm, in some ways, Dalrock’s analysis.

  125. Boxer says:

  126. Desiderius says:

    “True dat. I lived one year in DC. In certain parts of town at the right time of day, or night, the place is positively swarming with well dressed top notch looking career women.”

    The Babe Drain in action.

    I get the sense it’s finally abating somewhat.

  127. Desiderius says:

    “However, I am not sure what a woman, even one who isn’t necessarily passively waiting, is supposed to do when it simply isn’t happening.”

    Stop buying into the feminist lie that she doesn’t need a man and/or God. What follows from that are natural behavioral modifications that will mysteriously attract men. Once I accepted the need to provide what a wife was looking for – masculine leadership/dominance/confidence, taking care of myself, etc… a good wife finally appeared.

    The twins are due in two weeks.

    She had married young (as part of the evangelical reaction to secular delayed marriage) and it turned out poorly as it sometimes does. She finally divorced her husband after twelve years when he reneged on his promise to have children with her. She’s both a professor (of music) and a very devoted and affectionate wife.

  128. Desiderius says:

    It’s easier to get over the feminist lie when you recognize that men need you too, so it doesn’t feel so unfair to those whose moral thinking is stuck in seventh grade.

  129. JudgeMontrose says:

    Novaseeker, who is DS?

  130. Swanny River says:

    More on atomization: she is upset she isn’t married and proud of her independent contentment- that sounds like a short-women boasting about how great and easy short hair is. Where is her blog’s focus of being under her Dads authority or under an older woman of the church. She has achieved great American singleness, why is she proud of that as a Christian. No covering.

  131. Otto Lamp says:

    “It’s not unheard of for a woman to marry for the first time at 35 or even 40, and still have kids. We had our youngest when I was 37.”

    AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!

    For God’s sake, please stop saying this; quit damning women to motherhood hell.

    Pregnancy after 35 is a risk fraught with extra difficulties. There’s a reason doctors define them as geriatric pregnancies–the mother’s are old to be having a baby.

    Congrats on your success, but for every woman like you there is another that fails to have a baby after 35.

    1/3 of women are functionally unable to have a baby after 35 due to infertility problems, the inability to carry a baby to term, egg degredation, health factors, or a combination of the previous.

    As for the other 2/3, even if they can get pregnant, misscarriage rise rise from 33% at 35 to 50% at 40 (it is only 10% for women in their 20s).

    The risk of physical defects also skyrocket after 35. Unfortunately for many women the only baby the will have after 35 is an unhealthy one.

    Instead of telling women “don’t worry, you can wait till you are 35 to start having kids” we should be telling them the cold, hard truth: their best chance of having a family is to do it in your 20s. Waiting till 35 is a RISK.

    Again, congrats on being one of the lucky ones–your risk paid off. But please don’t use yourself as an example that might encourage other women to take the same risk, because for some it won’t pay off.

  132. elspeth says:

    No risk for me, Otto. I had our first when I was 23. The 5th at 37. I’m simply making the point that it happens, and it happens for a lot more women than we might want to acknowledge.

    A Christian woman who ostensibly hasn’t been promiscuous or tinkering with her fertility via artificial BC can probably have 3-4 babies at age 35 or over. I’ve seen it happen

    Congrats Desiderius. Twins are a lot of work, so get ready!

  133. Gunner Q says:

    Canon Rex @ July 5, 2017 at 8:23 pm:
    “Another push I’ve seen for you-go-guurrl become educated career woman is “what if the husband dies? She needs to provide for herself.”

    “Anyone know some responses to that one?”

    A second husband. Grown children. Relatives. Five million welfare programs. Every Christian charity ever founded. Seriously, how many homeless women have you seen that aren’t psycho crack addicts? North America is going bankrupt providing women with every possible husband-substitute it can. Widows don’t starve here.

    Then hit back with “What if she loses her sex drive after having kids? He needs a mistress just in case.” Their concern is only a power play so flip the script as quick as you can.

    elspeth @ 8:16 am:
    “However, I am not sure what a woman, even one who isn’t necessarily passively waiting, is supposed to do when it simply isn’t happening. What should she do besides find peace and contentment in the state which she is in?”

    Women talk endlessly about relationships and leverage their sexuality like a stockbroker but don’t know how to attract a decent guy? Not buying it. They have no trouble attracting Chads.

    The female problem today is not a LACK of options.

  134. Otto Lamp says:

    “and it happens for a lot more women than we might want to acknowledge.”

    It also DOESN’T HAPPEN for a lot more women than we might want to acknowlege.

    Unfortunately, society barrage young women with the wait message without also informing them of the risks of waiting.

  135. Otto Lamp says:

    “A Christian woman who ostensibly hasn’t been promiscuous or tinkering with her fertility via artificial BC can probably have 3-4 babies at age 35 or over.”

    I wouldn’t make that bet, nor would I advise any woman that wanted 3-4 kids to wait till she was 35 to start having them.

    “I’ve seen it happen”

    Would you tell your son not to study in school, because he can make big money in the NFL?

    I’ve seen it happen. I went to high school with a guy that played in the NFL.

    Only 2% of college players go pro, but I’ve seen it happen. So go ahead, tell your son not to study, ‘cuz “I’ve seen it happen.”
    I

  136. Dalrock says:

    @Elspeth

    A Christian woman who ostensibly hasn’t been promiscuous or tinkering with her fertility via artificial BC can probably have 3-4 babies at age 35 or over. I’ve seen it happen

    You are coming in and proving my point. This is what is so common in Christian culture. Until just a few decades ago, a woman who waited to marry until 35 was a huge outlier. Older women would have strongly cautioned against waiting so long. Now we have older Christian women teaching younger women it is no big deal.

    It is true that if a woman is willing to risk not having children, or having a smaller number, she can wait longer. But to claim that most women can have 3-4 babies starting at 35 isn’t borne out by the data.

  137. tweell says:

    There’s a big difference between having the first baby at 37 and having the last baby at 37. It’s dangerous to the would-be mother and the child to start at that late age. My wife and I had our last when she was 42 (!) but she was in good health; he was the fifth child and much loved, although unplanned.
    I don’t think I’ve ever been closer to death than when my wife discovered that her diaphragm had been punctured multiple times. My involuntary look of shock and horror when she showed it to me saved my life. It turned out that our 9 year old daughter had been playing in our bathroom, discovered it, and made it into a ‘dolly shower’.
    My brother married late, to a woman aged 40. She wanted children badly, but was unable to have them. They spent at least $30k on fertility treatments before going with a surrogate mother. She was in excellent shape (dance instructor), but it was simply too late.

  138. AnonS says:

    I don’t know if it is a fear of numbers that our school system encourages or what but women definitely do have a problem with how statistics work. That “I’ve seen it happen” overrules all evidence. Especially now with facebook videos that can make popular the 1%, so they can make fun of anyone that points out an average “oh yeah! this video shows a women that’s taller then men where is your biological differences now!”.

  139. Swanny River says:

    Anon S, a different but additional reason that makes it hard for me to grasp how my young son will ever be able to find and marry a worthy helpmeet. Their lack of logic becomes blurred with a love of mental anarchy and disgusts me,.

  140. Boxer says:

    Dear Peeps,

    @Dalrock (and any other MD’s / Biologists / Life Science types):

    You are coming in and proving my point. This is what is so common in Christian culture. Until just a few decades ago, a woman who waited to marry until 35 was a huge outlier. Older women would have strongly cautioned against waiting so long. Now we have older Christian women teaching younger women it is no big deal.

    I have heard scuttlebutt about a phenomenon whereby women who begin giving birth in the prime fertility years (16-25) being able to continue giving birth to healthy children through their 30s. It’s as though something about starting one’s female life as a traditional woman extends fertility somewhat.

    I have never seen any peer-reviewed journal articles about such stuff, but that’s probably because I know nothing about that sort of scholarship. It seems anecdotally relevant to me, though (my own older Mormon aunties who married young kept banging out kids. Some of my cousins were born when their mothers were 40-43 etc.)

    Of course there are probably a number of correlating reasons for this. Sluts who start out on birth control, getting their uterus scarred by various STDs in their late teens, are likely not going to have as easy a time conceiving. I’d be interested in any serious studies regardless. It might make an excellent series of blog posts someday.

    @Elspeth

    I think most of the fellas here are very happy for you and your husband. Even so, many of the women who deserve our criticism are not really like you. They’re common sluts. We should encourage such women, as Jesus would have, to quit being ho’s, clean themselves up, get married to whatever good man will have them, and live decent lives. Part of that is condemning them for their present stupidity.

    The fact that you were able to conceive in your late 30s is probably due to you being smarter than so many of your sisters. You didn’t spend the first part of your life catching gonorrhea and herpes, jacked up on synthetic hormones all the while. Major respects to you and your parents for that. Sadly, you’re not the norm.

    Regards,

    Boxer

  141. AnonS says:

    In terms of what a woman can do if she wants to marry, it is pretty simple.

    1. Announce that you want to marry (say on the text of your dating profile).
    2. Announce that you would want a pre-nub because you recognize that government marriage is aligned against men.
    3. Announce that you wish the man to be the chief decision maker in the family, even willing to call him master.

    Do those things and men will be beating down your door; now you need to vet to find the one with the most virtuous character who will act in your best interest and take your consul as needed.

    Doing #1 is taboo that shows that “you aren’t content with where God has you.” #2 and #3 would be considered un-Christian as you are committing the sin of being a doormat and not having men perform their mandatory “man-up ritual”.

  142. Frank K says:

    “My brother married late, to a woman aged 40. She wanted children badly, but was unable to have them. They spent at least $30k on fertility treatments before going with a surrogate mother. She was in excellent shape (dance instructor), but it was simply too late.”

    Many women believe that just because they are “fit” that it all but guarantees they can have children in their 40’s.

  143. feministhater says:

    No risk for me, Otto. I had our first when I was 23. The 5th at 37. I’m simply making the point that it happens, and it happens for a lot more women than we might want to acknowledge.

    Well no shit. Wow! Increase the age of marriage and the unintended consequences is that the age of when women have children also goes up. Part of me just wants to pat you on the head and send you off to teach more young women to put marriage off until at least age 40. The other part, well… I’ll just laugh my ass off. You’re like a walking contradiction. You keep on saying everything is working out okay for other women whilst you are always the woman who does the opposite of what they do.

  144. Frank K says:

    ““Anyone know some responses to that one?”

    A second husband. Grown children. Relatives. Five million welfare programs. Every Christian charity ever founded.”

    Add to that:

    Life insurance
    Social security survivor benefits.
    Food stamps (welfare, already mentioned above, but super EZ to qualify)
    Medicaid (ditto)

    Some time back, when our children were not adults; I used to joke with my wife that they’d better better off financially if I died. She didn’t think that was funny.

  145. Gunner Q says:

    AnonS@ 1:04 pm:
    “I don’t know if it is a fear of numbers that our school system encourages or what but women definitely do have a problem with how statistics work. That “I’ve seen it happen” overrules all evidence. Especially now with facebook videos that can make popular the 1%, so they can make fun of anyone that points out an average “oh yeah! this video shows a women that’s taller then men where is your biological differences now!”.”

    This drives me NUTS. “Women make good soldiers! I saw it in a movie!” How do you guys respond? I just want to sucker punch them and ask if they saw THAT in a movie.

  146. thedeti says:

    Elspeth:

    “However, I am not sure what a woman, even one who isn’t necessarily passively waiting, is supposed to do when it simply isn’t happening. What should she do besides find peace and contentment in the state which she is in?. Presenting as a desperate, baby rabies infected creature is certainly not exactly an alluring look nor helpful for attracting a husband.”

    You and I have talked about this many times. Nova had good things to say above. What a woman should do when it “simply isn’t happening” is to get more proactive, make it clear that, yes, she really does want marriage, and then do things specifically designed to get her to that place. And if it “simply isn’t happening” for her, then at least one or more of the following is happening:

    1) She lives in an area where there aren’t enough eligible men. Solution: Go to places where there are more eligible men.

    2) She’s immature. Solution: Grow up.

    3) She’s a bitch. Solution: Stop being a bitch.

    4) She’s not at peak physical attractiveness. Solution: Fix the physical attractiveness issues.

    5) Her standards are too high. Solution: Lower her standards, or drop out and be happy being single.

    6) She lacks relationship skills. Solution: Learn the skills.

    She doesn’t have to present as a “desperate, baby rabies infected creature” to do that. You’re now falling into the false dichotomy trap many people accuse the manosphere of perpetuating.

  147. thedeti says:

    Elspeth:

    Yes, you had your last one at 37, but you had your first at 23.

    Generally, when a woman starts having kids young, she can just keep on having kids and do just fine. That’s how most Catholic women were doing this. Several women I know in the little backwater town I came up in had more than 5 kids each, all healthy. One had 10, all healthy.

    The issues pop up when the woman STARTS having kids at 35, usually after around 10 or so years on hormonal birth control and after a series of prior different sex partners.

  148. earlthomas786 says:

    If a woman leads a Godly moral life…odds are her fertility will be much better to bear fruit. If she decides to go down the career feminist birth control promiscuous path of destruction odds are what little she has will be taken away. We don’t have a society that promotes the greatness of motherhood anymore and instead is continuing the feminist brainwashing to the demise of many women.

  149. Bee says:

    @AnonS,

    “In terms of what a woman can do if she wants to marry, it is pretty simple.

    1. Announce that you want to marry (say on the text of your dating profile).
    2. Announce that you would want a pre-nub because you recognize that government marriage is aligned against men.
    3. Announce that you wish the man to be the chief decision maker in the family, even willing to call him master.”

    These are very good. #3 – A women with a submissive attitude is sexy to the right guy.

    I would add:

    4. Take some cooking classes. Buy a subscription to “Americas Test Kitchen.” My wife has found that their recipes never fail.
    5. Take some classes and learn massage. Buy a used massage table on ebay or craigslist. Or, take Belly Dancing lessons. Or go large, learn both!

    A girlfriend of my wife took Belly Dancing lessons, she only does them for her husband. He likes it!

  150. thedeti says:

    Judge Montrose:

    “DS” is the blogger Deep Strength. He blogs at deepstrength.wordpress.com.

  151. DrTorch says:

    You are coming in and proving my point. This is what is so common in Christian culture. Until just a few decades ago, a woman who waited to marry until 35 was a huge outlier. Older women would have strongly cautioned against waiting so long. Now we have older Christian women teaching younger women it is no big deal.

    Why, it’s almost like men are afraid to stand up to these women and correct them.

    Someone said good marriage age 22. While I don’t think there is a single perfect age, I’d think that younger than this might be better. 19-20 in my mind. An immature woman will ruin a marriage of course, but that’s generally true for any age. And both spouses need to value the marriage above the alternatives (bar hopping, hooking up, trying to find dates, etc).

    I don’t think it precludes college, maybe even for both, (it really should enhance it by cutting back distractions) but that takes discipline, and parents need to be supportive of such a situation. My observation is that few parents are.

  152. Heidi says:

    I agree that being clear about your intentions is valuable. For what it’s worth–anecdata here–I met my husband online, and I was pretty clear that I was looking for matrimony. He was one of the first few people who contacted me. He, too, stated early on that he wasn’t interested in aimless dating. I admitted on my profile that I wasn’t very good at cleaning (still working on that), but noted that I was a decent cook. I got a few jokes about was I looking for a spouse or a housekeeping job; joke’s on them, because I got me an excellent man and three nice little children.

    Here’s a quickie quote from an article about fecundity decline in women who have had babies before (multiparas) vs. women who have not (primiparas):

    “The effect of age differed for parous and nulliparous women, with the latter experiencing much stronger age-related declines relative to fecundability at age 20 years.”

    Rothman KJ, Wise LA, Sørensen HT, Riis AH, Mikkelsen EM, Hatch EE. Volitional determinants and age-related decline in fecundability: a general population prospective cohort study in Denmark. Fertil Steril. 2013 Jun;99(7):1958-64.

    The Discussion in this article mentions another study that has the same finding:

    “Our study most closely resembles that of Howe et al. (3), a prospective cohort study in which data also were stratified by parity. In that study, the effect of age on fecundability was modest among parous women until age 37 years, after which it declined appreciably, but for nulliparous women there was a strong and consistent decrease in fecundability in each age category older than 25–27 years (the youngest age group in study). Howe et al. (3) reported peak fecundability for parous women at age 28–29 years. Therefore, the results from these two prospective studies show remarkably similar parity-specific age patterns. Both studies indicate that the decline in fecundability with age is stronger in nulliparous women.”

    So yes, if you want to have babies later in life, your best strategy is to have them earlier in life. I was born when my mother was 43, but she got started at age 26.

  153. Boxer says:

    Heidi:

    Rothman KJ, Wise LA, Sørensen HT, Riis AH, Mikkelsen EM, Hatch EE. Volitional determinants and age-related decline in fecundability: a general population prospective cohort study in Denmark. Fertil Steril. 2013 Jun;99(7):1958-64.

    180! Thank you! A direct link to this pro-click paper:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3672329/pdf/nihms448571.pdf

    Regards,

    Boxer

  154. Dalrock says:

    @Deti

    And if it “simply isn’t happening” for her, then at least one or more of the following is happening:

    1) She lives in an area where there aren’t enough eligible men. Solution: Go to places where there are more eligible men.

    2) She’s immature. Solution: Grow up.

    3) She’s a bitch. Solution: Stop being a bitch.

    4) She’s not at peak physical attractiveness. Solution: Fix the physical attractiveness issues.

    5) Her standards are too high. Solution: Lower her standards, or drop out and be happy being single.

    6) She lacks relationship skills. Solution: Learn the skills.

    This is a good list. Interestingly 1-4 and 6 are ways to improve her MMV prospects. 5 is to accept the reality of her MMV prospects. There is a trade-off between the two categories: make your options better or accept your options as they are.

    I would also slightly tweak the wording of #5 to:

    5) Her standards are too high. Solution: Humble herself, or drop out and be happy being single.

    The problem with “settling” is it allows the settler to continue holding an inflated (false) and entitled view of themselves. Humility is the real solution because it gets to the source of the problem. The 500 bullet point checklist isn’t the real problem. It is the mindset that created the 500 bullet point checklist in the first place. And this is where modern Christian culture is so far off base. Women’s only sin is said to be lack of self esteem, and the answer to not finding a husband is thinking even more highly of themselves. It is precisely backwards.

  155. Desiderius says:

    “It is true that if a woman is willing to risk not having children, or having a smaller number, she can wait longer.”

    My wife waited until 34 to discover that her (first) husband had decided he didn’t want kids. We started trying when she was 36. We discovered after a year and a half of trying that she had run out of eggs, so after much crying we found a (24-yr-old) donor.

  156. Desiderius says:

    “I would also slightly tweak the wording of #5 to:

    5) Her standards are too high. Solution: Humble herself, or drop out and be happy being single.”

    Given the current competition, that may well be all it takes.

  157. elspeth says:

    “If a woman leads a Godly moral life…odds are her fertility will be much better to bear fruit.”

    What earlthomas786 said here was all I was trying to say. I wasn’t advocating waiting, or trying to say it was good to wait, or even that any ol’ woman who marries late can have a lot of children regardless of what she’s done prior. But to pretend that what we do with our bodies in the mean while doesn’t produce disparity i results doesn’t make sense.

    This situation right now is fairly well screwed up and this means that some women necessarily are not going to get married up and start having children at an early age. But I do believe that those who do the right things in the meantime will reap the blessings of that.

  158. thedeti says:

    after looking at my list again, another thing I’d add to it is:

    7) She doesn’t have time to look for eligible men because of school, work, career, hobbies, etc. Solution: Finding a good man either is important to you, or it is not. Decide, honestly, how important getting married is. Then, once you’ve made your decision, either accept it for the time being; or clear your life out, become much more available, and make time for finding eligible men.

  159. Otto Lamp says:

    @Desiderius,

    Thanks for sharing your story. It underlines the point I was trying to make.

    For every story of a woman who has a child in her late 30’s or 40’s, there is a woman who discovers that she (though no fault of her own) cannot have children by the time they reach their mid-30’s.

    And, it is impossible for a woman to know what her situation will be till she reaches that age. That’s why it’s RISKY for women to wait till their 30’s to start having kids.

  160. BillyS says:

    Lots said already that is good. All that I have read in the past indicates having a first child at 35+ is much harder than having a later child.

    While I would not be a likely candidate for someone who really wanted children, I would love to find a faithful wife.

    [Pro 31:10 NKJV] 10 Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth [is] far above rubies.

    Finding that kind of woman is quite unlikely, especially in today’s society. Even finding one who is aiming at that point is almost impossible. Plenty of books and articles explain why aiming at that is unreasonable, but few use it as an aimpoint as it should be used.

  161. coloradomtnman says:

    The ‘lady doth protest too much.’

    Dandy Mandy is just another single woman protesting and jabbering about how she doesn’t ‘need’ a man and can do everything on her own. The notable difference is that she wraps herself in a heretical cloth of ‘Jesus’ while doing it, which is not particularly impressive; selling sin in modern Sodom and Gomorrah isn’t a notable accomplishment.

    The poor sap that ends up with her is where my empathy lies.

  162. BillyS says:

    Otto, my wife couldn’t have children from 28 on. She used BC (unfortunately) for a couple of months right after we married, but we stopped that and did nothing to prevent things for years. I believe that she likely could have had children younger, but she wasn’t even ready for marriage when we wed, so she would not have been later.

    (The result shows she wasn’t ready for marriage even when she did marry me, but that is another issue.)

  163. BillyS says:

    Elspeth,

    You sounded like you were saying that waiting was not that big of a problem since you had a child that old and knew others who had as well. That is the message that was put forth and is certainly what many women would take.

    I was talking with a 30 year old at a local meetup last week and she said she felt she would have no problems having children later on. I hopefully planted a few seeds, but her dawdling around will make it highly unlikely she has children at all.

    I didn’t view it as my job to correct her completely, but I did try to throw in some seeds of thought.

  164. Spacetraveller says:

    Desiderius,

    “It’s easier to get over the feminist lie when you recognize that men need you too…”

    This is so true!

    We often forget this when we seek something, that that something also seeks us. I think this is a general principle that can apply to almost anything – a job, a spouse, friends, even children.

    It is no exaggeration to divulge that my ‘luck’ on the husband front changed when my prayer changed from ‘please God, why don’t you find me a nice husband’ to ‘please God, why don’t you find my future husband a nice wife’.
    On the side, I also asked God to make me ‘a nice wife’.
    Of course hoping that God is not so bright as to see the connection between the two prayers, lol :-).

    It did take a LONG time to make this shift in thinking though (‘cos turns out I ain’t so bright, lol). So I pray that someone can take this shortcut and make an immediate change to their life. Amen.

    But…remember, you get what you wish for…if you pray for your future spouse to need you in a specific way, (and yes, please be specific in your prayer !) then be prepared to fulfil that specific need – and more, of course.

    In making my own prayer, I imagined a hungry guy, just waiting for me to be his personal cook.
    (Of all domestic skills, by far and away my best one is cooking – some say I am obsessive about it. It is how I best show my ‘nurturing’ side, (but not exclusively). Every job I have had, for example, I have ended up cooking for the entire institution – I have even been described as the cooking equivalent of a (insert bad word for loose woman) because I will cook for just about anyone, no questions asked. No problem to throw a party where I cook for 40-50 colleagues in my own home (or in my long-suffering parents’ home).

    My husband is just about the hungriest man on the planet. So God, with His Divine sense of humour really answered my prayer wonderfully well. It is a running joke that he only married me because I love to cook. But that is not too far from the truth, because he DID tell his family and friends that he met a girl, and she is a good cook, therefore he was going to marry her. His best friend, who was best man at our wedding said that in his best man speech! I remember thinking, can men really be that simple??? He married me just because I COOK for him? That’s all I had to do to get this guy? I was genuinely (pleasantly) surprised.
    But now I understand of course…it really IS that simple.
    What for one is just a pleasurable activity (eg. cooking) can be for another a big deal. We all have our ‘big deals’. In my husband’s case, when his mother died (long before I met him) he felt that no-one would cook for him as she had done, until he met me. It was a poignant moment when he shared that with me.

    I wonder if a lot of men feel this strongly about food/cooking? Or any other such ‘service’ a woman can render them?
    In which case, there is plenty a woman can do to make a man really need her. Food for thought (no pun intended!).

    The problem is…and I think this might be a big issue in this modern world … if the man is already too self-sufficient…then what can a woman offer him that he doesn’t already have?

    This might be a challenge…and I don’t have any answers to this…anyone with bright ideas regarding this?

    I always berated my blogger friend Danny from 504 (some of you may know him!) for being too much of a good cook. I know Danny is a bit of a MGTOW, so he may not necessarily be looking for a wife, but I always told him that with his excellent cooking skills, (which he displayed openly by posting mouth-watering food pics on his blog), any feminine woman who fancies herself as a decent cook, would feel he is somehow ‘competing’ with her, and may be turned off.
    But alas, Danny always disagreed with me on that point…

    I still think my argument is at least logical, no? Well, maybe too simplistic…I don’t know (shrug).

  165. Snowy says:

    Mandy Hale doesn’t want to put herself out for anyone. Period. Pure unadulterated selfishness.

  166. “thedeti says:
    July 6, 2017 at 4:55 pm
    after looking at my list again, another thing I’d add to it is:

    7) She doesn’t have time to look for eligible men because of school, work, career, hobbies, etc. Solution: Finding a good man either is important to you, or it is not. Decide, honestly, how important getting married is. Then, once you’ve made your decision, either accept it for the time being; or clear your life out, become much more available, and make time for finding eligible men.”

    It’s been repeatedly said, “watch what a woman does, NOT what she says.” (Slightly OT here is an old Italian proverb: “Men have facts, women have words.”)
    By her own actions, this woman has demonstrated what is REALLY important to her; all her prattling is simply noise.

  167. @AnonS:

    Pretty much. Which is why you won’t see it happen because the social shame would be too intense for any Woman to bear.

  168. feministhater says:

    BillyS:

    I was talking with a 30 year old at a local meetup last week and she said she felt she would have no problems having children later on. I hopefully planted a few seeds, but her dawdling around will make it highly unlikely she has children at all.

    I didn’t view it as my job to correct her completely, but I did try to throw in some seeds of thought.

    Any seeds you thought you planted were ripped out the moment she left the building. These women have become utterly delusional. There is no waking them up or teaching them reality. Only the cold hard slap of time does the job.

    I’ve stopped wasting my time. No sympathy anymore, they did and do it all to themselves.

  169. feministhater says:

    Reading through Mandy’s Twitter feed is like driving a nail through your brain. I don’t know how Dalrock found this chick but she is as common and as dull as they come. Same old shit, different dress. A multitude of meaningless twitter memes and quotes meant to bolster her self-esteem. Why she even calls herself a Christian is beyond me.. she couldn’t possibly believe in a Judgement Day, not with the stuff that she says.

    Mind boggling. Thank you God. This is a woman who needs to stay single and independent.

  170. Gaza says:

    While I have yet to meet a 24 y/o single woman lamenting the lack of a suitable husband material from which she can casually select from (while holding onto her Iphone), the frequency of encounters with 35y/o+ single women who are open about their frustrations in same is increasing rapidly.

    Interestingly, most are not parroting the Femtopian Media’s talking points, but are actually discussing their challenges in ways that approach introspection. That said, a few recurring things signal just how deep the perversion has rooted: their inability to self-assess; their inability to change their behaviors; and their unwillingness to siren to the younger generations vis a vis the choices that led them to this dark place.

    Aside. The latter was one red flag that ate away at a relationship I had with a late 30’s woman looking for the Whole Package. Her truth, her true religion was that of Liberal Progressivism. She desired to hold her progressive beliefs as paramount while cherry-picking from Christian values, morals, and tradition.

    Her 20 years of experience within that ideology was bad enough, but it was her reluctance to caution younger versions of herself that signaled to me that as long as she believed she was getting what she wanted – now, with me on the line (or so she thought), all of her past choices were perfectly fine. Even though she knew I felt quite differently about many of her past choices.

    Instead of warning those that follow of the perils of the chasing the dragon of experience, women still encourage seeking experience over all else. My ex, by affirming this pathology for the next generation, was telling me what was in her heart.

    Christians will rationalize this by deferring to “Gods Plan” while the agnostic Progs will rationalize this by deferring to the “Universe will send you what you need”. Both are merely facades for avoiding responsibility and transferring the multitude of poor outcomes onto the male balance sheet. And it seems, even when the wave of those poor outcomes is cresting over their heads, they still see fit to worship at the alter of experience. It is that embedded.

    Girls like Mandy are no different. Christianity is just part of their branding. They will show you what they value.

    Anyhow, a 38 y/o single woman I know has taken to sidling up to me at every opportunity to mine me for my (single man, early 40’s) perspective on what she calls dating. Like many I meet, she is sniffing around near the truth but just can’t convert that to anything actionable.

    I give her some opinions and she is amazed at the incisive gritty truth that seems to rain down from the heavens and nods along, but she can’t seem to step out of the grand delusion and embrace reality.

    These women are addicts. Functional, mostly, but addicts nonetheless.

    So after our latest chitchat, she is back on Tindr/Bumbl, and is now being lured into the “Sex at Dawn” we are all Poly trope by an openly poly man she met online. She’s met many of these guys lately. She wants to be married; she says she values monogamy and commitment. Yet she regularly bangs these guys she just met somewhere between coffee and Tuesday. Then *heart broken* realizes they don’t want anything serious.

    So after our last conversation I suggested she heed what men tell her, e.g. “I don’t believe in monogamy” and look for men who share her beliefs. Yeah yeah, totally. The next day she agreed to go out with him again “as friends”. They are going camping. As a Date. I just LOL’d.

    These women wonder why men like me jerk the wheel toward the tree as opposed to going down any kind of road with them. It’s a comedy, until Mr. Big fails to show, then it is a tragedy. A very expensive tragedy. If you want to dance, you’ve got to pay the fiddler. Somewhere along the line, this got lost.

  171. Hugh Mann says:

    If you think US churches are bad, try the Church of England.

    http://archbishopcranmer.com/church-england-general-synod-2017-persecuted-church/

  172. infowarrior1 says:

    @Gaza
    For such women christianity is just a label. They are unregenerate and unsaved.

  173. CSI says:

    What hope is there for women like these though? Lets say they manage to lower their expectations down to a reasonable level and find a husband, they would be filled with such resentment that they “settled” once the honeymoon is over. With current society being what it is, she will either make him miserable or divorce him. That’s why Dalrock himself recommends not marrying unless both parties are strongly in love with each other. But what can these women do since they are apparently incapable of falling strongly in love with any man who isn’t a superstar.

  174. Boxer says:

    But what can these women do since they are apparently incapable of falling strongly in love with any man who isn’t a superstar.

    She’s already fulfilling her potential. Her calling and vocation, as described in the bible, is ‘harlot’.

    There are nice Christian bros who don’t want to be celibate. This includes younger Christian guys who will use her while they build their confidence to find a marriagable woman, and it also includes older, divorced Christian brothers who don’t want to be remarried, but need some action.

    Yes, technically this is immoral, but using sluts like this is a better alternative than scoring with married women, or fucking-and-chucking women who are marriage-worthy, and who are looking for a more serious Christian life. The world is not perfect, and she is a part of it. Provided she gives good value to the men she services, and keeps on the path of not entrapping one of these men in marriage, I have no problem with her.

    Boxer

  175. Luke says:

    Previously posted information for which I cannot remember the original source, but was confirmed for me by our fertility clinic M.D.:
    “.there is something insidious and horrible that starts to kick in around age 34-35 for women conceiving children. It is universal for all women, cannot be tested for to avoid, and cannot be avoided. Basically, there is a roughly even trade off between advancing genetic maternal age after that point and reduced vitality and life expectancy in daughters (probably sons too, but the study did not look at them). So, if a woman aged 39 (when the ovum is extracted) conceives a daughter, about 6 years, or 10%, is taken off any daughter’s lifespan and health. At 44, it’s about 10 years, or 15%. And, it’s not “they just die at 72 instead of 82, with everything else the same until then”. All through those daughter’s lives, their health, their vitality, their vigor, their life expectancy are reduced at every age. This is not a moral thing to do to darling little babies you’d want to put in dresses and put bows in their hair.

    Please, please, please, aspiring mothers, for the sake of your future children, have all your children naturally before age 30, if at all possible.”

    Yes, we often hear about women who bear children in their late 30s or even early 40s, but those are very disproportionately women who already have borne children. A so-far barren woman trying to have a multichild family starting at age 38, or ANY children starting at age 41, without dropping 40 – 100 grand at a fertility clinic? The odds are lousy, too lousy for a man who wants children to risk marrying her.

  176. Desiderius says:

    Elspeth,

    “This situation right now is fairly well screwed up and this means that some women necessarily are not going to get married up and start having children at an early age.”

    The nature of exactly how it’s screwed up though means that young women who actively pursue marriage at a young age will enjoy an overwhelming advantage over their peers who are not doing so.

  177. DrTorch says:

    Some good comments SpaceTraveller.

    Luke- I’ve heard that men’s sperm yields weaker offspring as they get older too. Not to compete w/ what you wrote, you make compelling points. In retrospect I started my family much later than I’d have preferred, and it’s smaller than I’d like too.

  178. Desiderius says:

    “if the man is already too self-sufficient…then what can a woman offer him that he doesn’t already have?”

    (a) respect

    (b) faithful devotion

    (c) children

  179. Luke says:

    Dr. Torch, re men’s sperm decreasing in quality with age:
    yes, there is some truth to that, BUT:
    1) the inferior ones tend in large degree to be outcompeted by the better ones, which swim faster;
    2) the difference between a 40-YO man and a 20-YO man WRT their sperm quality is likely barely a tithe of the difference reproductively between a 20-YO woman and a 40-YO woman.
    Sure, the risk of schizophrenia in sons a man sires goes up several times over that interval, but it’s hardly a big deal, not like the ~50x increase in odds of Down’s Syndrome babies from women aging. (At age 48, it’s 1 in 12 for Down’s, or 1 in 9 for all extra-chromosome disorders caused by geriatric maternal genes.)

    Disclosure: I have two healthy twin daughters I conceived at age 49 (I’m 55 now).

  180. feministhater says:

    The problem is…and I think this might be a big issue in this modern world … if the man is already too self-sufficient…then what can a woman offer him that he doesn’t already have?

    The only things she has been able to offer since marriage first became a thing. Submission, chastity and respect, amongst many other personality traits like honesty, integrity, helpfulness, loyalty and even love. Everything else is secondary, if a wife has those sorts of defining traits and a willingness to submit to her husband, a man can the make use of her, raise good children and live a good life.

    Men are meant to be self-sufficient, that’s what they’ve always brought to the table of marriage. Women aren’t meant to be self-sufficient, their biology doesn’t really allow them to be. Not without a huge government backing them and providing for them. By defining themselves as independent, they remove the need for men to marry them. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Mandy is unmarriageable. It wasn’t God who did it, nor was it men who weren’t good enough, it was Mandy, she listened to the whispers and has convinced herself she doesn’t need a husband. She wouldn’t be able to submit anyway. She truly is better off single.

  181. WinT says:

    Her twitters self identified her as a woman to avoid. If she needs no man, a man have no need for her.

  182. benfromtexas says:

    This chick lives down the road from my sister living in Tennessee. She is worshiped like she’s some type of Christian superwoman. She has friends that go running the roads in Nashville. She’s a door knob. Everybody has had their turn from what my sister says.

  183. Oscar says:

    Gents,

    Off-topic, but always pertinent.

    “Woman, 25, convicted for making up fake rape claims against 15 innocent men

    A British woman who repeatedly claimed of being sexually assaulted and raped by 15 different men – leading one to be wrongly imprisoned – is now facing jail time of her own after she was convicted Thursday of lying about her claims.

    ‘Jemma Beale was a determined liar who repeatedly went to great lengths to fabricate evidence in an attempt to see innocent men convicted, including telling deliberate lies under oath’, London Crown Prosecution Service Lawyer Samuel Mainsaid. Beale was convicted of perjury and perverting the course of justice.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/07/06/british-woman-faces-jail-time-for-making-up-sexual-assault-rape-stories.html

    Wait until you see sweet Jemma.

  184. Boxer says:

    Oscar: Jemma is a lovely girl. So is her pal Gemma. https://v5k2c2.wordpress.com/2017/06/14/your-daily-dose/

  185. Amstrat says:

    @Dalrock

    Thanks! Lurked here for years, but it’s always good to get your feet wet

  186. Cj says:

    The sadest part of this is that I still care for women. I am not bitter and full-on MGTOW like some. I believe in eir value.

    But I see feminism destroy women, rip them apart emotionally. Trying to br male never works. Denying who you are, really are, never works. We were created differently.

    It is not misogyny to love women enough to warn them that they are hurting themselves. We were created for Oak-Vine relationships. When the vine pretends to be the Oak, the vine is hurt.

    (And yes, plenty of men, White Knights, are oaks pretending to be vines, laying on the ground and rotting).

    But then the blame game, it’s not feminism, it’s … men, God, someone or someting else that is the real problem.

  187. MarcusD says:

    On the Patron Saint of Housewives: Saint Martha
    https://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=1057532

    Possibly going to be a father (out of wedlock)
    https://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=1057529

  188. Tom C says:

    One of her most popular blog posts is a poignant and introspective one entitled: Why I’m Still Single: The Ugly Truth. In it she wonders if she never married because she is flawed and unworthy of love. It evidently struck a chord with her readership because the almost 500 comments are overflowing with disastrously depressing tales from spinsters of all ages still holding out for their Prince Charming, sometimes into their 50’s and beyond. It might be entertaining Schadenfreude for some although I just found it sad.

  189. CSI says:

    “One of her most popular blog posts is a poignant and introspective one entitled: Why I’m Still Single: The Ugly Truth. ”

    I had a quick look a that. I think several Redpill authors, including Rollo, address this. That even though women may overestimate their desirability, on the other hand they are often filled with extreme self-doubt where they think are less attractive than they actually are.

    But this quote from her posts caught my attention:

    I never meet guys. Like…literally NEVER. A few years ago I felt like I could simply walk into a room and command the attention of the men in the room. I had no trouble meeting men. I got hit on regularly. But something changed along the way and that’s not my experience anymore. I suspect it was more an internal change than an external one, as I honestly think I physically look better now than I did ten years ago.

    I’ve seen women write things like this elsewhere, that they are convinced they look just as good in their 30s as they did in their 20s, so why aren’t men noticing them as much? It must be because they are more bitter and negative from all the no-good men who have done them wrong.

    Well they may or may not be more jaded, but the main reason is they actually look 10 years older, and there’s no hiding it, no matter how well preserved she is. A huge amount of the human brain is dedicated to analyzing the faces and appearances of other people. Men instinctively notice the tiniest lines, loss of skin tone, etc. Those 10 years from 20s to 30s means a huge loss of fertility, which means men are instinctively going to find her less attractive.

  190. BillyS says:

    For those who want to look:

    http://thesinglewoman.net/2015/07/14/why-im-still-single-the-ugly-truth/

    A quote from an early reply:

    I am 37 and after an unhealthy Marriage of 14 years just ended. I am also on the Journey of self love, and finding myself and growing in my Relationship with Christ.

    It sounds like something my ex-wife might write, even though our marriage was only unhealthy to the extent that she stopped attempting to connect well before the end.

    “Unhealthy is accepted as a valid excuses by most in churches, unfortunately, though it rarely means anything really bad, at least from what I have seen.

  191. infowarrior1 says:

    @Cj
    It is feminism actually at its root the heresy of equality and an attack on Patriarchy and hence Christ as well as Christianity.Either by inverting the hierarchy hence blaspheming God by ruining the image of Christ and the church making it egalitarian(also ruining image of christ and church) or abolish it outright through harlotry.

    Blame must be placed accordingly and the evil must be dealt with. Call a spade a spade. Isn’t that what Christ did?

  192. infowarrior1 says:

    @Cj

    Look at the duluth model documented on this website in its archives to see the evil of feminism and the use of abuse as an excuse to destroy the family.

  193. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Found this personal ad on Craigslist from a Christian girl: https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/w4m/6208228351.html

    I’m looking for a Christian. Someone who wants to grow in his relationship w the Lord. …

    My love language is pain. I’m looking for someone who will control and hurt me. … have a lot of fantasies about being submissive. … I have a lot to offer someone who would enjoy overpowering and controlling me. Rough sex. Choked. Spanked. Told what to do. Violence. Brutality. Being controlled. Tied up. Hit. Overpowered. … I would prefer rough sex and being dominated all the time.

    Be great to show this ad to all the Mangina Pastors and White Knights praising Christian women on their angelic purity, holiness, and Godliness.

  194. feministhater says:

    I needed this. I am a fairly attractive woman. I’ve always gotten a lot of attention and I’ve had several marriage proposals. I have some sort of low self esteem where I want a husband and a happy relationship but I’m so afraid of having out that I runfrom every interested party. Then I also have this “go after the shittiest, most worthless and unavailable men I can find” thing going on too. Yet I’m lonely and sometimes really really really sad about the life and relationship everyone but me seems to be able too pull off.

    Thanks Tom C and BillyS. That article from her blog is a pure gold mine of shit-out-of-luck-spinsters. Haha!

    The above quote captures practically everything been said on this blog for years. There it is. She’s had many proposals in her youth, she’s had lots and lots of attention, no problem getting it when she was young. None of those men were good enough though, she was only interested in the bad boys; and now she’s alone because the bad boys don’t use her anymore and the guys who used to show her attention don’t admire her anymore. She caused it to herself, no one to blade but herself.

    It’s a riot, a hoot, I’m going to read those comments and savor the moment! Thanks Mandy!

  195. Paniym says:

    What a dichotomy of thought. First she doesn’t need men and then she ends up pining to God about the lack of a man in her life. Who wooda thunk……….

    I read this earlier today to let it digest before posting. After a little time reflecting it’s become more astounding to me the absolute selfishness, solipsistic, “All about me”, nature of her posts. No real man would ever want her. Maybe some brainwashed Christian betatized wimp might approach her but they would never be good enough for her and no real man would want that babyish, selfish and immature child. She would make a horrible wife and mother.

    I’m starting to believe that the opulence of our Christian culture has permanently corrupted the Church to the point that the only thing left for Christ to do is destroy the western Church and start over. This is disgusting and the absolute betatization of the men of the church has de-balled them to the point of impotence in standing up for themselves.

    I’m sorry, but I’ve been a Christian for 47 years and I’m giving up on the Church. Time for Christ to spew it (the westernized Church) out of his mouth and start over somewhere else.

  196. Novaseeker says:

    I’ve seen women write things like this elsewhere, that they are convinced they look just as good in their 30s as they did in their 20s, so why aren’t men noticing them as much? It must be because they are more bitter and negative from all the no-good men who have done them wrong.

    Well they may or may not be more jaded, but the main reason is they actually look 10 years older, and there’s no hiding it, no matter how well preserved she is.

    I think they honestly underestimate (or simply do not get or understand) that youth in women, in and of itself,, is attractive to men, and thererfore very easily detected by men. There’s a freshness to female youth that is unmistakable to a man’s eye, and extremely attractive in itself, regardless of the other physical features in question. This is hard for some women to grasp, I think, because they do not evaluate men in this way to anything similar in degree. It’s genuinely surprising to them that they do not get as much attention at 38 as they did at 24, even though they may be in significantly better shape at 38, take better care of themselves and so on — 24 and female is attractive in itself, even as compared with a fitter 38 yo. That doesn’t compute for women, because it isn’t at all how they evaluate men physically (or otherwise) — apart from cougars, who specifically chase young men for sex, generally younger men aren’t particularly highly favored among women in anything like the way young women are among men. So they don’t “grok” this, I think.

    Well, some of them don’t. Quite a few understand very well that this phase passes, probably because they had a wiser older woman tell them that when they were young, as compared with what many older women advise today.

  197. Spacetraveller says:

    Thank you Feminist Hater and Desiderius for your very nice and informative answers.

    You mention the ‘intangibles’ in life. Very important, in fact MORE important than the ‘tangibles’ I mention for the simple reason that the ‘intangibles’ automatically lead to the ‘tangibles’, so for example, a woman who loves her husband will be more likley to see to his personal needs, another who respects her husband will be more likley to be faithful, the submissive one will be also automatically more sexually ‘available’ to husband, and so on. Yes, you are right. I see clearly your line of thinking.

    Thanks Dr. Torch.

    Boxer,

    I heard of that story of the british ‘Jemma’ as I keep abreast with ‘home news’ from time to time. It is a confusing story because she is actually a self-proclaimed lesbian who says she has never slept with a man…
    Bizarre…

    As for your other ‘Gemma’ who is missing, and pictured having a ‘digital gynaecological exploration’ outside of a consultation room, well quel horreur…goes to show that everything is relative in this life, eh. She makes Mandy Hale look positively marriageable! (But then again, I guess most men will perhaps say ‘no thanks’ to both, for different reasons…).

    Regarding the online profile question, commenters above have mentioned positive qualities to add to the profile to boost a woman’s chances, like Heidi and Bee above.

    I am wondering, is it a good idea for a young woman, eg. say Elspeth’s daughter to say she is looking for a ‘Red Pill’ man? Or even a Christian Red Pill’ man? I am not sure if it will be necessary to mention that she herself is Red Pill (I guess it is implied anyway, no?).
    Like this, if a ‘Blue Pill’ man reads her profile, he will be curious to know what ‘Red Pill’ means, and go research it. A Red Pill man will be alerted to a potential good match for himself.
    In both cases, win-win, because a little ‘spreading of the word’ has occurred thanks to the young woman, and she (if she is brought up by someone like Elspeth, I guess ‘Red Pill is in her genes :)would get either an already Red Pill man or someone who, thanks to her ‘seed sowing’ will convert to Red Pill-ness.

    Any thoughts? Too obvious? Perhaps a little less ‘in yer face’ might be simply stating something like, ‘I like perusing current issues on Planet Man, AKA ‘The Manosphere’ to get a balanced view of life, or even ‘I have noticed that there is way too much concentration on female-related issues in every aspect of life so I am starting to develop a keen interest in male-related hot topics – do you have one to share with me?’ or something else similar.

    That would be refreshing to see, no? If I were a young man and I saw that on a young woman’s profile, I would at least be interested to get to know her to see if she is the genuine article. That’s all the ‘ice breaking’ a potential new couple need! And then, the rest is history, as they say :).

    Could be a nice idea, no?
    Tell me I am on to something here!

  198. Lost Patrol says:

    youth in women, in and of itself,, is attractive to men, and thererfore very easily detected by men.

    Exactly. It’s more than visual, it’s instinctive, it’s pheromonal, it’s unconscious. That’s why even great looking older women can’t generate the same vibes as the young ones, there’s more to it than looks.

  199. feeriker says:

    I’m starting to believe that the opulence of our Christian culture has permanently corrupted the Church to the point that the only thing left for Christ to do is destroy the western Church and start over.

    Yup. Jesus’s “Top o’ the ‘To-Do’ List” when He returns will involve the church – and not in a good, joyous, or pleasant way. He’ll have His pruning shears and refining fire at the ready, and it’s going to be a gruesome experience. Matter o’ fact, the Unsaved will probably be shown more mercy on Judgment Day than the so-called “believers” who have corrupted His church.

  200. Boxer says:

    Dear Fellas:

    I’m starting to believe that the opulence of our Christian culture has permanently corrupted the Church to the point that the only thing left for Christ to do is destroy the western Church and start over.

    Yup. Jesus’s “Top o’ the ‘To-Do’ List” when He returns will involve the church – and not in a good, joyous, or pleasant way. He’ll have His pruning shears and refining fire at the ready, and it’s going to be a gruesome experience. Matter o’ fact, the Unsaved will probably be shown more mercy on Judgment Day than the so-called “believers” who have corrupted His church.

    Why wait for Jesus to magically appear, and do the job we can all do right now?

    It will probably be a lot easier than we think. It seems like the church, as an institution, has collapsed to such an extent that all you guys need to do is to start building an authentic replacement for it. Hardly anyone (aside from very elderly people) goes to those Christo-Feminist meetings any longer. The pews are empty.

    If you live in the secular U.S.A., you should have very few problems starting up a new church. The constitution guarantees your freedom to do so. You don’t even need a building at first. Just turn your collar around and start advertising.

    Boxer

  201. Hawk&Rock says:

    “Just “good” or “okay” is not going to cut it for me when it comes to the person I spend the rest of my life with. And I’m not going to apologize for that.”

    In my experience, women like this never apologize for anything. Ever.

    So charming…

  202. PokeSalad says:

    Many women believe that just because they are “fit” that it all but guarantees they can have children in their 40’s.

    Yes – I would like to see studies that examine the correlation between pilates, Zumba, and 40+ fertility.

  203. Hawk&Rock says:

    “I am 37 and after an unhealthy Marriage of 14 years just ended. I am also on the Journey of self love, and finding myself and growing in my Relationship with Christ.”

    Hahaha

    “Just ended”.

    It just ended. Just like that. No mention of her filing for divorce and taking some cash out of the deal to help her on her “journey”.

    My ex’s 12 year marriage was “unhealthy” too. Specifically, during the last two years of it, she was f*cking someone she loved more than me. Very unhealthy, indeed.

    She filed and left with lots of cash for her journey …and yes, it was all perfectly acceptable to our church.

  204. AnonS says:

    Wow, that is some major lack of insight. http://thesinglewoman.net/2015/07/14/why-im-still-single-the-ugly-truth/

    “But something changed along the way and that’s not my experience anymore. I suspect it was more an internal change than an external one, as I honestly think I physically look better now than I did ten years ago.”

    ‘I’m a better judge of my own attractiveness then men.’

    “”That he had abruptly stopped being attracted to me, after almost a decade of intense, undeniable chemistry. That my humanity and my imperfections were a turnoff to him.”

    ‘Men obviously turn on a dime, I never asked but I just know that I did nothing to annoy him for eight years. Also I dated for eight years with no plan to move towards marriage.’

    “You just need more makeup, a thigh gap, more self love!” the secular world says superficially.
    “You just need more faith,” the Christian world says judgmentally.

    I have faith. Lots of faith. I love Jesus with my whole heart.

    I also have makeup, lots of makeup, and I’m working on the self-love stuff every day.

    I want with every single fiber of my being to be one of those self-assured, confident, bold women of God who knows exactly who she is in Christ and walks in the freedom of knowing how loved she is, how precious she is, how validated she is.

    The secular world says I need more self-love so that’s what I spend time on every day and it still isn’t working for some reason. The church only says I need more faith (nothing about virtues or character) but that is obviously wrong because I have more faith then anyone else. I want with every fiber of my being to be marri- no wait I don’t actually want to be married or have a Christ-like character; I want to be a women that has lots of feminist merit badges and that God (along with men) don’t find beautiful. Why must I still be single!

    And that journey starts with this blog…with this moment of honesty that will hopefully be followed by lots more moments of honesty as I stop frantically searching for the silver lining of every situation and instead just learn to embrace the ugliness, the doubt, the uncertainty, the fear…as all a part of the journey.

    I’m certain that not learning anything nor asking men what they want, I will obtain the merit badges I seek.

  205. feministhater says:

  206. feministhater says:

  207. feministhater says:

  208. feministhater says:

  209. feministhater says:

    Mindless drivel. Wow! Who the heck wouldn’t want such a peach?!

  210. Boxer says:

    feministhater:

    Feel free to start talking back to this idiot on twitter. She needs a bit of comeuppance.

    Boxer

  211. Hawk&Rock says:

    “Messy girl but I still deserve the world.”

    But of course you do dear.

    smh

  212. Otto Lamp says:

    “…I dated for eight years with no plan to move towards marriage.”

    She found Mr. Good Enoungh, but wanted to keep her options open for Mr. Perfect.

    Eventually, Mr. Good Enough decided she wasn’t good enough for him and moved on.

  213. Mandy says:

    @imnobody00

    I think I can offer some insight… You are right with the false sense of abundance and lack of ability to distinguish make attention based on short vs long term.

    Throughout history, men were usually in short supply. As recently as the 1940-1950s German and Russian men could have a wife and children then also another woman or two off somewhere bearing his children. Bald men, short men, old men had no trouble attracting & keeping a woman eager to act as a proper wife.

    Even today Russia sees this imbalance and the women jump through hoops to keep them happy. Even men western women wouldn’t give the time of day.

    Some places in America have the opposite dynamic. So you see the opposite behavior.

  214. earlthomas786 says:

    It was pointed out earlier that these women needing to be more humble. What they are trying to do is be prideful while at the same time hoping God listens to their prayer. Pride is the quickest way to become alone…and always leads to destruction.

  215. elspeth says:

    @ Spacetraveller:

    There are a number of red pill “truths” that my husband finds patently false for a number of reasons, based both in common sense, his experience, and his Christian faith. To be honest, I agree with him. He will not stand for his daughters labeling themselves as anything other than Christian women who understand how a marriage and family is Designed to work.

    We were both raised by strong, dominant fathers. They handled their marriages very differently -one good, one not so good- but both saw women as both valuable and quite enjoyable in their place. So a lot of what the red pill espouses strikes him as odd.

    It won’t take long for anyone who spends any amount of time around our family to see that our girls were raised to respect and appreciate the men in their lives and to embrace God’s design for marriage and womanhood.

    So nope. Marking themselves as “red pill” is not going to happen.

  216. thedeti says:

    Elspeth:

    Not everyone needs the Red Pill. In fact, most men probably don’t need it. Your husband, by your own account, is a sexually attractive, confident man, a natural alpha to whom you are so incredibly sexually attracted you can’t even see straight, and who picked this stuff up or was correctly taught this stuff at an early age.

    The Red Pill is for the AFC, the male 5-6 who can occasionally get girls but can’t keep them. He can get relationships but can’t sustain them. He’s been taught all the wrong things, or for whatever reason (poor upbringing, single mom upbringing, omega loser father, some autism, learning the “old rules” instead of the “new rules”, whatever) just didn’t pick this stuff up.

  217. Oscar says:

    @ elspeth says:
    July 7, 2017 at 11:07 am

    “… but both saw women as both valuable and quite enjoyable in their place.”

    See, that right there is both problematic and counter-Biblical.

    SOME women are valuable, and they are rare. See Prov 31:10 “An excellent wife, who can find?
    For her worth is far above jewels.” If an “excellent wife” whose “worth [i.e., value] is far above jewels” was easy to find, the scripture would not ask “who can find?” her. Furthermore, jewels are valuable precisely because they’re rare. If rubies were as common as limestone, they’d be even less valuable than limestone, because limestone is more useful.

    MANY women are not only NOT valuable, but a drain, and definitely not enjoyable.

    Proverbs 21:9 It is better to live in a corner of a roof Than in a house shared with a contentious woman.

    Proverbs 21:19 It is better to live in a desert land Than with a contentious and vexing woman.

    Proverbs 25:24 It is better to live in a corner of the roof Than in a house shared with a contentious woman.

    SOME women are valuable and make their company enjoyable. Other women drain a man’s soul. A wise man know’s how to spot the difference between the two, and a wise woman knows how to be the former, and avoid becoming the latter. That’s why so many Proverbs are devoted to explaining the difference between the two.

  218. thedeti says:

    http://thesinglewoman.net/2015/07/14/why-im-still-single-the-ugly-truth/

    In a nutshell, Mandy Hale is still single because she is a flawed, imperfect woman who would not humble herself to accept a flawed, imperfect man.

    She is still single because she would not expect marital commitment from the flawed, imperfect men she did let into her life.

    She is still single because she very likely had full serially monogamous relationships with the men she did let into her life. She writes of a toxic relationship in her 20s and of an 8-year relationship. I don’t believe for one minute she’s a virgin. I don’t believe for one minute she had a nonmarital relationship for 8 years with one man and never had sex with him.

    I don’t believe for one minute that this woman who is attractive enough to a wide swath of men was completely unable to find one man, not even one, willing to offer marriage to her. She is not hot, but she is pretty. She moves and operates in Christian circles in Tennessee, where there are scads on legions on regiments of single Christian and nonChristian men, at least some of whom had to be attractive enough and who very well understand how the game is played in Christian circles- you meet, date, and get married. I mean come on. Really? Can’t find one? Not even ONE?

    She is still single because of all this, and more.

  219. Frank K says:

    ” I don’t believe for one minute she’s a virgin.”

    I don’t believe for one minute that most Churchian pastors’ wives were virgin when they married or have an N=1. Pastor Bob might have an N=1, but not his “godly wife”.

  220. thedeti says:

    We are all inherently flawed and imperfect. That’s not what keeps any of us from having good sex and successful relationships, least of all Mandy Hale.

    What keeps us from having good sex and successful relationships are:

    1) failing to know and understand male and female sexual nature

    2) not humbling ourselves and accepting other flawed and imperfect people, including their flaws and imperfections.

    3) expecting far too much from our partners, expecting them to do things they can’t and be things they aren’t.

    4) Not committing ourselves to each other, no matter what.

  221. Mandy has all the time in the world, you guyz!
    Besides, obviously God is giving American women age 18-29 a breather.

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/report002.pdf

    Results:
    1. The provisional number of births for the United States in 2016 was 3,941,109, down 1% from 2015.

    2. The general fertility rate was 62.0 births per 1,000 women aged 15–44, down 1% from 2015 to A RECORD LOW for the United States.

    3. Birth rates DECLINED TO RECORD LOWS for women in all age groups under 30 years in 2016.

    4. The birth rate for teenagers aged 15–19 declined 9% in 2016 to 20.3 births per 1,000 women; rates declined for both younger (aged 15–17) and older (aged 18–19) teenagers.

    5. The birth rate declined for women in their early 20s to 73.7 births per 1,000 women aged 20–24 in 2016, and for women in their late 20s to 101.9 births per 1,000 women aged 25–29.

    6. The rates for women in their 30s and 40s ROSE in 2016. (OH MANDY!!!!!!)

    7. The nonmarital birth rate declined 3% in 2016, to 42.2 births per 1,000 unmarried women aged 15–44.”

  222. PokeSalad says:

    The Red Pill is for the AFC, the male 5-6 who can occasionally get girls but can’t keep them. He can get relationships but can’t sustain them. He’s been taught all the wrong things, or for whatever reason (poor upbringing, single mom upbringing, omega loser father, some autism, learning the “old rules” instead of the “new rules”, whatever) just didn’t pick this stuff up.

    Isn’t it interesting that the people who claim, “I/he/we don’t need the Red Pill,” treat it as if it was some outlandish, fringey, otherworldly philosophy, in the same context as “I don’t care for Zoroastrianism,” when most of it is the way the world was for generations untold, and Biblical to boot.

  223. Larry G says:

    Lurker finally outed….I’ve been reading Dalrock’s blog for a looooong time, this has been fascinating reading Ms. Mady’s “Why I’m Still Single” piece, this blog counter point and comments. Carry on.

  224. Novaseeker says:

    I mean come on. Really? Can’t find one? Not even ONE?

    My guess: she is very picky, and she tends to pick guys on the wrong criteria to boot.

    She’s up front about being picky. It’s one thing not to want to settle — settling in a conscious way, meaning from the mindset of “I could do better, and am better, but I’ll take this for other reasons”, is bad for relationships and marriages. But there is a middle ground of “I am flawed, he is flawed, we are good together nonetheless, even though it isn’t what I thought of as a Hallmark card” type of approach, and she isn’t there. She’s at the “Don’t settle, I am fabulous, I need someone fabulous, not just good, but fantastic and fabulous”. It’s as if the standards get higher as she gets older, which of course leads to massive problems, because her exposure to good guys lessens as she gets older as well — part due to looks, part due to those guys just being all off market. This mindset will impede finding someone compatible to share life with — she’s making the classic mistake of making the perfect the enemy of the good, and compounds that by calling it a virtue. Bad mindset leads to bad results.

    The second point is that her self-disclosed track record in terms of picking men is poor. Toxic relationship in late 20s. OK, Mulligan for that one, but you learn something, no? Well, instead in she marched into an 8-year relationship with a guy who was obviously not compatible in some way or other — a guy in that age range who has never been married and has no ties doesn’t put off marriage for 8 years for no reason at all. Yet she picked him and stuck with him for 8 years. Again, wrong criteria, going about things the wrong way. It’s one thing to want to not be seen as desperate to marry, it’s another to allow yourself to be strung along for 8 years. My guess? He was hot as the Sonora desert in summer, and she let herself get strung along by that — she herself mentions the “intense chemistry”, and we know what that means.

    So really we have a case of pickiness coupled with bad criteria. Going forward she expects to have the same chemistry she had with 8-year guy (increasingly unlikely given her age and whom she can attract moving forward), coupled with everything else on the list to find a fabulous guy. Makes for a poor prognosis, I think.

  225. Spacetraveller says:

    Elspeth,

    I have to admit I am a little confused. But this happens a lot on blogs like this. Terminology, terminology, terminology…

    “He will not stand for his daughters labeling themselves as anything other than Christian women who understand how a marriage and family is Designed to work.”

    I was under the impression that this is EXACTLY what Red Pill means!

    Perhaps we shouldn’t use the term ‘Red Pill’ as it can be …problematic. Do you remember my other blogger friend, Bellita, Elspeth. She also disliked to be labelled as ‘Red Pill’ even though in my estimation, she IS Red Pill (in an ultra Catholic sort of way, lol).

    I get that there are some Red Pill ‘truths’ that you and your husband disagree with, but the definition of Red Pill itself cannot be ambiguous, surely…Red Pill, in my opinion is actually consistent with Christian ideals, precisely because for a start, it recognises the very differences between men and women that you and your husband espouse. I think ‘Red Pill’ is good, but not perfect, perhaps, when it includes some ‘dark stuff’ eg. the so-called Dark Triad traits that some PUAs are fond of using. But, each to his own, eh. Unnervingly, perhaps is the realisation that these traits do work, though…albeit in a purely animalistic way that is nothing to do with Christianity…

    Anyway, these ideals that help maintain the polarity between men and women, especially within Christian marriage, should I label them with a different name, do you think it would help if your daughter (if she ever wishes to ‘date’ online) or any other young lady looking for a husband identifies as an avid supporter of them?
    Or perhaps you think it may be ‘too much information’ for online dating? Or could another objection of yours be that so-called Red Pill women, especially those that are single are automatically viewed with suspicion by men? I am just curious as to what you think about this strategy. I would obviously like to see your elder daughters married off soon, so just throwing ideas your way…

  226. BillyS says:

    Elspeth and her husband have their own blue pill clouding their eyes. Red-pill is not just about the sleeze, yet that is all she can see. My long term marriage blew up because my “godly wife” finally decided to act on her inclination to not obey God before marrying me and leave. Her claims that “good upbringing” can overcome all naively ignores that all of us must live in modern society.

    I believe her daughters are already heading into an older age range per her past posts. That will take them out of peek fertility and allow more time for other ideas to be sown in and grow in their hearts, however their immediate patriarchs handled things.

    And what would her husband do if a daughter married and came home claiming “abuse”? My bet is he would immediately jump to her defense rather than being a bit more skeptical.

    We don’t live in the past world those like Elspeth remember, and we really never did. Overall society reinforces female foolishness. Not doing anything because of a label is very counterproductive.

    I had thought my strong will could overcome just about anything, and it seemed to for many years, but that was not enough, even with the Lord’s direct help. My church went against its clearly preached “divorce is not an option” because my wife played the system (in her own way, not really formally).

    This is like politics where realism is rejected because some push it to unreasonable points. Instead of pushing the truth, some back off, claiming to be on a higher level. Yet those people never accomplish any of their goals and society as a whole suffers.

    Elspeth,

    What is your husband actively doing to help his daughters have a stable future? Is he an active participant or just another form of “God will work it out” participant? What solutions does he offer if red pill and other things are mostly errant in his view? (I would rather ask him, but he is not here, though his way is put forth on a regular, though sporadic, basis.)

  227. BillyS says:

    Deti,

    Most men don’t need a whole lot for successful sex. It is the women, in my experience, who lack the commitment, not the men. Though perhaps it is because I can’t explicitly recall being around the limited number of scummy men many women are drawn to like flies. Those men are rare, yet get all the attention because most women are attracted to them in some manner. The solid guys fall below the radar.

    I have found that my attraction range is a bit wider than I thought it was. (I am attracted to thin, even though I am not.) Faithfullness in most mails requires very little, as has been noted before in this blog. Some basic looks help, but a good attitude is a key component as well. I wouldn’t waste time on a bitchy 10 and would rather have a cheerful 5 helpmeet.

    Though walking through Walmart these days (or most public places for that matter) almost makes me want to become a monk….

  228. Novaseeker says:

    Elspeth and her husband have their own blue pill clouding their eyes.

    I think it’s more the case that SAM (the husband) is kind of natural, and naturals are generally very adverse to red pill thinking because they just get it.

  229. elspeth says:

    @Oscar:

    I never once said my dad or FILs perspectives were Biblical. Their view is probably closer to what yours are than you might think. I said they were men who valued and enjoyed women.

    I did not say that they thought women were inherently valuable and enjoyable simply by virtue of being women, and I emphasized in their place.

    I was 18 before I heard a hint from my father that he held male and female sexual sin as equally sinful and even then he made it cleat that nonetheless men can get away with what women can not.

    My 78-year-old year FIL still thinks it amusing to remind me that the nurses at his doc’s office think my husband (he’s 44) is hot.

    We may live in a happy marriage purple pill bubble but pretty lies really don’s have a home here.

    Our daughters just turned 22 and 23 last week. In red pill land, I suppose that is old.

    And no, sir. You have no idea how realistic my husband’s vie of women is. He *gets* it just fine and he doesn’t see his daughters as perfect angels. I am far more likely to fall into that trap than he is.

  230. Oscar says:

    @ Novaseeker says:
    July 7, 2017 at 1:45 pm

    “It’s as if the standards get higher as she gets older… ”

    That’s typical. Men tend to mellow as they age. Women tend to become even more demanding. Some women eventually figure it out and “settle” for a man they would have never even considered in their 20s, but many don’t. The lovely Ms. Mandy may eventually stumble upon reality.

  231. Dalrock says:

    @Spacetraveller

    I have to admit I am a little confused. But this happens a lot on blogs like this. Terminology, terminology, terminology…

    “He will not stand for his daughters labeling themselves as anything other than Christian women who understand how a marriage and family is Designed to work.”

    I was under the impression that this is EXACTLY what Red Pill means!

    No. Red Pill doesn’t connote Christian. It is a broad term used differently by different groups. See for example the Red Pill movie, and the Red Pill subreddit.

  232. Opus says:

    I gain the impression having read the blog article linked by Deti that Miss Hale is, in that memorable American expression ‘ A Hot Mess’. She may be single but she was once not without male admirers; she said as much; naturally her long term relationship in her twenties was in the current buzz-word ‘toxic’ and then there was the eight year relationship – obviously as with the earlier relationship far from platonic and surely highly volatile and sexual – with the hawt guy who later told her to her face that she was not lovable. She clearly wants a husband for that would be proof of her real desirability but she knows that she will screw up big-time. In her video she exudes something but it is not lovableness or homeliness. Some people are very sexually attractive but just not made for Matrimony or Motherhood.

  233. Oscar says:

    @ elspeth says:
    July 7, 2017 at 2:37 pm

    “I never once said my dad or FILs perspectives were Biblical. Their view is probably closer to what yours are than you might think.”

    And I never claimed that you said your dad’s or FIL’s perspectives were Biblical. I merely pointed out that when a person’s opinion contradicts the Bible, that person’s opinion that has to be wrong.

    “I said they were men who valued and enjoyed women.

    I did not say that they thought women were inherently valuable and enjoyable simply by virtue of being women, and I emphasized in their place.”

    Again, whether inherently or not, whether “in their place” or not, only SOME women are valuable and enjoyable, and they’re the minority. So says the Bible. Whether or not your dad and FIL acknowledge that about women, I don’t know. I can only address what’s on the page (or screen, as the case may be).

  234. Gunner Q says:

    PokeSalad @ 1:03 pm:
    “Isn’t it interesting that the people who claim, “I/he/we don’t need the Red Pill,” treat it as if it was some outlandish, fringey, otherworldly philosophy”

    Not when you consider that natural Alphas react to the Red Pill in one of two ways:

    1. They don’t understand the need, like a crow watching chickens sign up for flight school.

    2. They slam the Red Pill because it’s creating more sexual competition.

    I’m not sure which category Elspeth’s husband falls into. Hopefully the first. The second is a saboteur looking for an opportunity.

    Spacetraveller @ 2:05 pm:
    “Perhaps we shouldn’t use the term ‘Red Pill’ as it can be …problematic.”

    Use the term. Red Pill men seeking marriage need to filter a large number of women in a short amount of time. They’re likely to blow past you unless you say something to be noticed.

    Just realize that as Deti said, the men who need the Red Pill aren’t the hunky billionaire celebrities. The men a “Red Pill Girl” will attract will be stable, normal, boring and intolerant of N>0.

  235. thedeti says:

    “naturals are generally very adverse to red pill thinking because they just get it.”

    Hmmm. It might be less that naturals are adverse to red pill thinking, and more that naturals are adverse to seeing concepts they instinctively understand written down and systematized. They recoil at it and harrumph in frustration,

    “what? Why does a 35 year old man have to have this stuff explained to him in writing on the damn internet? Doesn’t he know this by now? And… in writing? It’s written down? What’s wrong with these guys? Can’t you, you know, just SEE it? Just, you know, go talk to girls until they have sex with you. I mean, really, it’s not that hard….”

    It’s one thing to BE red pill and act it. It’s another thing to talk about red pill on blogs. It’s another thing to write down and explain Red Pill concepts in cold prose. It’s another thing to teach this stuff, in writing, on a blog, in full view of the girls, to men who in past generations would have been taught this by age 13 with absolutely no girls watching, and certainly not with his mother or sisters watching.

  236. thedeti says:

    One thing I have discovered about naturals is that they are Red Pill through and through. It’s just that what they are isn’t called “red pill”. It’s just them, interacting with people, and attractive women just show up in their lives, and they have sex with most of them, and they just live their lives. Interacting with women, having sex with them, and making, having, and breaking off relationships with them, is just an effortless, natural part of their lives.

    Naturals are completely unable to teach what they are. They have no idea why what they do works. They just know it does. And they can’t impart it to anyone because they themselves don’t understand it. They didn’t think much about it. They had good fathers and other men in their lives who just did it and just got it, and so their sons did the same things. They watched the natural men in their lives do it, and they grew up doing it.

  237. BillyS says:

    I was 18 before I heard a hint from my father that he held male and female sexual sin as equally sinful and even then he made it cleat that nonetheless men can get away with what women can not.

    It depends on which sin you are looking at. Women get away with a whole lot of it today, more than most men.

    Though the major sins for men today are

    – Being unattractive
    – Not making their wife happy

    Those who sleep around and get away with it are a very limited pool, however much they are the meme. Most never had that opportunity, though any woman can blow up a marriage on a whim, especially if she seems unhappy and/or is willing to cry “abuse”.

    I had thought Elspeth’s daughters were a bit older (24+). They still have a window, but I would expect that to be near the end. How long of an engagement is acceptable/desired to them and their father? That adds to the time of their first marriage. They are already outside the peak time of connecting, and finding and connecting still takes time.

    No answer on what positive steps are being done, just cries about the “icky” red pill stuff.

  238. BillyS says:

    I know Vox Day is disliked by some here, but he had a post recently (on the AlphaGame blog) about how alphas have a hard time understanding what others face.

    I would also argue that leaves them without a lot of the compassion they should have, especially those who are Christians. Where are the Christian men who took their time to help me when I was going through my own private hell? Only one who is not an alpha bothered to dedicate any time at all to me, and that was limited to his family obligations.

    That is why I get back to “what are the practical steps to take” message. Too many bad mouth an approach, yet never note anything positive to do instead. Doing that reinforces the flawed generally messaging already out there. Just cutting down those who are close, but vary on points, is worse than standing for something of value.

  239. Oscar says:

    @ thedeti says:
    July 7, 2017 at 3:05 pm

    “Naturals are completely unable to teach what they are. They have no idea why what they do works. They just know it does.”

    For the same reason that elite athletes make terrible coaches, and geniuses make terrible teachers. They don’t understand why ordinary people struggle with tasks that come naturally to them, and they have no clue how to teach an ordinary person to perform those tasks.

    The best coaches and teachers tend to be ordinary people who struggled with their sport/subject matter, but figured out how to excel at it. That experience helps them teach others how to do the same.

  240. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Novaseeker: It’s as if the standards get higher as she gets older,

    That’s a basic human expectation: The greater the investment, the greater the payoff.

    That usually works in economics. The more years you save or invest money, the more interest or dividends it earns. The more years you work at a job, the higher you are promoted. Seniority often pays.

    Women apply that to relationships. The more years she “invests” in waiting, the greater the “payoff” in the quality of her eventual husband.

    I’ve heard women say, “I did not wait this long (into their 40s or even 50s), only to settle for a man I could have had in my 20s. The man I eventually marry had better have been worth the wait.

  241. Jonadab-the-Rechabite says:

    It is as if the modern churchanity views female singleness as a season to enjoy the libertine pleasures of the world and that marriage is a necessary evil for the purpose of sustainability.

    What is a shame is that singleness could be a season of preparation so that a woman’s fulfillment of her created purpose exercised in her ordained role in marriage might be the most satisfying of her life. Instead of unity the church supports female independence, narcissism and selfishness and then curses men in order that women can feel better about their lives which which they are living contrary to their design but with the blessing from the pulpit.

  242. thedeti says:

    Gunner:

    I have no doubt that Elspeth’s husband is the first variety of natural. He doesn’t understand why anyone would need to go to the Internet to learn anything about sex, dating, marriage, etc. He has no clue why guys didn’t just naturally pick this up by the time they’re out of high school.

    He is masculine and Red Pill. He just won’t call himself that. In my opinion, it’s not so much that he disagrees with any of it; it’s that he recoils at seeing what he is described so thoroughly and accurately in writing. He can’t believe anyone would need to pick any of this apart, break it down into component parts, and reverse engineer it so as to become it, build it or at least imitate it.

    To him, attracting women is just a natural part of a man’s life, and he cannot fathom why any man would have any trouble with it. Women come and go. If one gives you problems, let her go, and another one will be along soon. If one doesn’t want to be with you, let her go. Another will be along soon. Just live your life, and women will just show up, and want to be with you.

  243. CSI says:

    I mean come on. Really? Can’t find one? Not even ONE?
    My guess: she is very picky, and she tends to pick guys on the wrong criteria to boot.

    There’s that of course. But mainly I think Mandy enjoys being single and has no great attraction towards marriage or children. She’s not going to admit it, but its that simple. And she does seem relatively happy and well-adjusted, unlike the rogue’s gallery of women (and a couple of men) in her comments section. The saddest, and most interesting, in that 2015 article is “I’ve never had a boyfriend” (she has though) who seems to be genuinely mentally ill and starts one of her long single paragraph rants with It should be mentioned that I wear a neutral face when boys and men glare at me in the street. Occasionally they oddly start to sneer and stop. They’re always some of the most attractive and I hate them but I don’t let them know in case they become violent with me.

  244. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    CSI, one of my favorite comments from Mandy’s rogue’s gallery was the woman who said, I’m 54 but can pass for 34.

    Uh, yeah. Sure you can.

  245. Novaseeker says:

    But mainly I think Mandy enjoys being single and has no great attraction towards marriage or children. She’s not going to admit it, but its that simple.

    Ah, so you think it’s a ruse, then — as in, the whole spiel about being conflicted about singleness and so on is to sell books, and in reality, she prefers being single. Well, that’s certainly possible — she does sing the praises of being single pretty much everywhere else other than that specific post.

    The comments in that post are a red pill marathon, really. I mean it couldn’t get more red pill.

  246. Newdist says:

    @Elspeth:

    “Our daughters just turned 22 and 23 last week. In red pill land, I suppose that is old.”

    It’s not old at all. The problem might lie with what they’ve been doing for the last six or seven years. Most women spend those years making themselves unmarriageable.

  247. feministhater says:

    It’s old enough, they’ve already spent 4 and 5 years respectively out of school. Just keep doing what you’re doing and they’re be 30 before you know it.

  248. elspeth says:

    To him, attracting women is just a natural part of a man’s life, and he cannot fathom why any man would have any trouble with it. Women come and go. If one gives you problems, let her go, and another one will be along soon. If one doesn’t want to be with you, let her go. Another will be along soon. Just live your life, and women will just show up, and want to be with you.

    In a nutshell, yes. Lots of areas where he had to develop patience when teaching things to other people when said skill comes to him naturally. Whether it’s drawing something from sight (he’s gifted at that), putting something back together once you’ve taken it apart (he is mechanically quite gifted), or developing relationships with people (in general, as he is not in the MMP), it has taken him a while to *get* how these things are a steeper hill for some people.

    And I still have to remind him from time when he offers a concern such as “I hope Jeff isn’t gay or something…” “No dear, Jeff is as straight as you are. It’s just not as easy for everyone to meet someone and connect.”

    But with young adults of his own, he’s taking a more observant look at what it’s like out there and he gets it a lot more.

    Our girls are -hopefully- hooking up with a pair of Christian sisters (daughters of friends of ours) in the fall to start some kind of meetup/social group for young Christian singles in our area. Specifically NEVER MARRIED, NO KIDS singles because most church singles groups have too much of a mix of statuses going on which is a big turn off to young, chaste singles.We’ll see what becomes of it.

    Y’all have a blessed weekend.

  249. Luke says:

    Elspeth, you (and your family) are black if I remember correctly.
    A factor not being mentioned in your calculations of the SM is race. Black women are inarguably the least desired among women by races, whereas black men are not as handicapped (presumably by virtue of jerk game/higher T and scarcity due to imprisonment/homicide/etc.). The equivalent bottom SM position for men would be Asian males. Both of these groups quite noticeably suffer in their SM prospects, in a way that white and Hispanic men (being nearer the middle, as well as their same-race women being abundant) are not.

  250. Hank Flanders says:

    elspeth

    However, I am not sure what a woman, even one who isn’t necessarily passively waiting, is supposed to do when it simply isn’t happening. What should she do besides find peace and contentment in the state which she is in?. Presenting as a desperate, baby rabies infected creature is certainly not exactly an alluring look nor helpful for attracting a husband.

    I definitely feel sympathy for women who are in this category and know or know of quite a few of them, who were usually homeschooled. I’ll sometimes pray for the ones I know or have met in the past to find husbands.

    Case-in-point, I know one young lady right now who’s in her early 20s and wants nothing more than to be a wife and mother. She’s a sweet, homeschooled, Christian girl who has a good attitude who has never been interested in college or career. She’s most certainly never been interested in committing sexual immorality (AKA riding the carousel).

    There are a few obvious problems going on preventing her from achieving her goals of marriage and kids, though. One problem is her weight. She’s going to have to really work and not piddle in order to get her weight down to a level where she’s going to be attractive to most guys. Also, her social group is extremely small and is mostly confined to her (small) family. I think she is trying to branch out there a little more now, but she’s always had a tough time in that area, due to her parents’ overprotectiveness, and from I’ve seen, her parents don’t seem interested in helping her find a husband, as they’re rather reclusive and unsocial themselves.

    Therefore, since she already has the attitude part down pretty well and doesn’t think she “deserves the world” like some ladies apparently do, as evidenced by the tweets feministhater showed us on July 7, 2017 at 9:29 am, she mostly needs to work on her looks and expanding her social circle. I can’t personally tell her about the looks thing, but I think she knows it, anyway. I have encouraged her to go spend some time with the homeschooled girls (who might know guys) she knows in another state, though, but again, she basically says she can’t because of her parents.

    Since we’re on the subject of a young lady’s parents, I should mention that I think parents should play a huge role in helping their daughters (and sons, if needed) find spouses, especially if these parents want grandkids anytime soon. I remember a couple in church once specifically coming up to meet me and pointing out their daughter to me with the obvious intention of having me get to know her. I did talk to her some and wasn’t interested in pursuing her, but I respected the effort on her parents’ part. Therefore, parents should actively facilitate activities and situations conducive to helping get their daughters meet guys who might make potentially good husbands.

    This post has already gone on longer than I’d intended, and I think it could be discussed more, but I do think elspeth presents a pertinent scenario that may be more ubiquitous than regular readers of this blog know. Likewise, new readers who specifically fit the description elspeth described may not have read elspeth’s past discussions with deti or Deep Strength’s blog, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to rehash some of the same information again for those “just tuning in.”

  251. Spacetraveller says:

    Dalrock,

    “No. Red Pill doesn’t connote Christian. It is a broad term used differently by different groups.”

    Thank you for the clarification. I guess here on your blog, because we mostly subscribe to the Christian Brand of Red Pill I overlook the possibility that even here, some see ‘Red Pill’ as distinct from Christian Red Pill values.
    It (strangely enough) surprises me!

    I would have expected someone like Elspeth to make the connection that when I say Red Pill I am OF COURSE referring to the Christian/Dalrockian version, which in turn IS compatible with her and her husband’s version, and not the kind of Red Pill which is on Reddit for example.

    Does Elspeth REALLY believe that I am suggesting her daughter or any other young lady in a similar ‘husband-hunting’ position declare herself a fan of the ‘who bitch dis is’/’grab ’em by the (little kitten)’ variety of Red Pill?

    Whilst these ‘Red Pill ideals’ that women in general (including me, frankly) find (publicly) tasteless, are entertaining on a more (privately) introspective level, please let me make it clear that I would never advise any girl/woman to get into this kind of banter DURING the ‘let’s get to know you better phase’ of relationship-building. After a certain commitment level has been achieved, it is fine to acknowledge that these ‘Game principles’ do work, (in retrospect), but not before :). In this regard, timing is everything.
    A general interest in male-related topics/the current plight of men in our ever-increasing gynocentric world is a good thing for a woman interested in a permanent alignment with a man to have, and is fairly neutral, and I don’t think it hurts for a woman to show her enthusiasm for such, because as a wife, or as a mother of sons these issues WILL suddenly become of interest to her, but then, why wait until she is there – my suggestion is to help herself by already becoming interested NOW, before she gets to the ‘tying the knot’ stage of her life, and to show it too.
    Precisely because it is part of our Christian values to ‘care for one’s neighbour’ (and I think the plight of men today is akin to what happened to the poor travelling guy in the ‘Good Samaritan’ story), this kind of reaching out to ALL men in this platonic manner by a young woman is kind of nice, and is very much Christian-like, in other words, demonstrating ‘Good Samaritan’ behaviour to (male) strangers – and who knows, one of them may becoming erm, less of a stranger eventually 🙂 and even if one does not successfully get a husband this way, at the very least, nice habits would have been cultivated anyway. Win-win situation!
    I think as Christian women we should be looking out for our Christian Brothers who are collectively being made to suffer just because they are male.
    In every time-point in history where a demographic group was oppressed, the ‘priviledged’ group helped out the ‘suffering’ group. With ‘female oppression’ (erm, whatever that means) – there were always men who stepped in to help, with the African slave trade, there were White people who ‘colluded’ to bring it to en end, during the Holocaust there were non-Jews who risked their own lives to save Jews, and so on…now that it’s men who are suffering, can we women (especially the *SINGLE ones) be counted on to ‘do the decent thing’? That’s the 64,000 dollar question, as they say.

    *(Happily married women are naturally enough, already ‘man-friendly’. So the real test is …’what is the attitude of the single ones towards men?’)

    With my ‘Christian Red Pill declaration’ proposal, I sincerely do not see how this could be in conflict with Elspeth’s and husband’s ideals and am somewhat disappointed (along with others who have picked up the same vibe) that she does see a conflict.

    (Shrug). Was only trying to help. I keep my mouth shut now.

    Anyway, my bad, for not making that distinction crystal clear in my previous comment. Thank you for the correction, Dalrock.

  252. elspeth says:

    @ Spacetraveller.

    I didn’t think you were suggesting that our girls “market” themselves in an immoral way. I assumed the best, gave you the benefit of the doubt, that you weren’t fully aware of all that the words “red pill” connote. You didn’t offend me at all. I was just making my husband’s position clear.

    @ Luke:

    I am aware of the information you offered. Our girls are pretty by any objective standard, and have even been shown interest by black and non black men who were also unfortunately non Christians.

    Our family -seriously- is not average. Not because of my fabulousness, but because I married very well. While I am certain that our girls could find themselves marrying later simply due to the realities associated with looking for marriage as black women, I believe they’ll do fine.

    My original comment was for the purpose of pointing out that Mandy Hale isn’t representative of most single Christian women.

  253. feministhater says:

    Since we’re on the subject of a young lady’s parents, I should mention that I think parents should play a huge role in helping their daughters (and sons, if needed) find spouses, especially if these parents want grandkids anytime soon. I remember a couple in church once specifically coming up to meet me and pointing out their daughter to me with the obvious intention of having me get to know her. I did talk to her some and wasn’t interested in pursuing her, but I respected the effort on her parents’ part.

    This is what I’ve been saying since I first ventured on this blog. A lot of this stems from the problem of there being little to no social gatherings where Christian singles can mingle but within the proper social environment that provides protection against abuse by either sex. It’s either the social climate of the hook-up culture or the total lack of any social climate at all. If people truly want to save their sons and daughters from falling prey to the current malaise that is modern marriage, I suggest they get off their asses, get together with others who likewise share their ideals who also have sons and daughters of their own and get busy. They also need to put in the effort into raising their children to be good mates. Something so sorely lacking that I found it breathtaking to contemplate why parents even expect their children to be married someday. If you don’t put the effort in, you won’t get the reward out, it’s that simple. Input equals desired output.

    Twiddling thumbs won’t work.

    The other issue I have with current ‘Christian’ culture is that Christian parents are okay sending their children off to state colleges thinking they will find a suitable mate there. Never mind that the college culture, including the disastrous SWJ culture, will rub off on their children and turn them into unmarriageable idiot savants. They just expect everything to work its way out. God is not interested in finding your children mates, that’s your job. Get to it.

  254. feministhater says:

    Should be ‘SJW culture’.

  255. feministhater says:

    My original comment was for the purpose of pointing out that Mandy Hale isn’t representative of most single Christian women.

    The fact that she can build a business model around something that doesn’t represent most single Christian women, according to you, doesn’t support your point at all, neither do your anecdotes.

  256. Bee says:

    @Hank Flanders,

    “Also, just for kicks, notice how Stanley brings up “mutual submission” at 49:39):”

    Awful teaching! Andy Stanley clearly implies that mutual submission is what makes Christianity superior to other world views. He says that mutual submission is the foundational principle for good relationships and marriage. He says that mutual submission is the very essence of Christianity!!!

  257. Bee says:

    @elspeth

    “My original comment was for the purpose of pointing out that Mandy Hale isn’t representative of most single Christian women.”

    Mandy has 644,000 Twitter followers. How many do your 3 daughters have combined?

    Mandy has written 5 books. How many have you and your 3 daughters written?

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  259. thedeti says:

    And I still have to remind him from time when he offers a concern such as “I hope Jeff isn’t gay or something…” “No dear, Jeff is as straight as you are. It’s just not as easy for everyone to meet someone and connect.””

    And because of most men’s upbringings (whose training, upbringings and experiences are nothing at all like SAM’s), a really, really sizable portion of men have a hell of a hard time with all this. Because they have been specifically trained and taught to be unmasculine, and have gotten blown out of the water so many times it’s not even funny.

    After a while, after so many times getting knocked down, you figure it’s better to stay down. After so many times getting rejected, IN PUBLIC, you figure maybe it’s better to stop trying.

    Especially when the feedback you get is “just be nice, just be yourself! there’s NOTHING AT ALL wrong with you! Just go back out there! Looks don’t matter! Don’t change! You don’t need to change!”

  260. Bee says:

    @Hank Flanders,

    “Since we’re on the subject of a young lady’s parents, I should mention that I think parents should play a huge role in helping their daughters (and sons, if needed) find spouses, especially if these parents want grandkids anytime soon.”

    Parents need to get more involved in helping their children find a spouse. Just one example of many, it’s obvious that Mandy should not have been trying to decide when and whom to marriage.

    Vaughn Ohlman setup a meet and greet for singles with a parent accompanying them. Church ladies got indignant at the though of 17 and 18 year old Christian women getting married so they asked the retreat facility, the Salvation Army, to cancel Vaughn’s reservation. The Salvation Army caved:

    https://www.christiantoday.com/article/controversial.get.them.married.teen.retreat.cancelled.after.outcry/85489.htm

    More of these meet and greet with a young person and one parent present should be organized.

  261. feeriker says:

    @feministhater

    A lot of this stems from the problem of there being little to no social gatherings where Christian singles can mingle but within the proper social environment that provides protection against abuse by either sex. It’s either the social climate of the hook-up culture or the total lack of any social climate at all. If people truly want to save their sons and daughters from falling prey to the current malaise that is modern marriage, I suggest they get off their asses, get together with others who likewise share their ideals who also have sons and daughters of their own and get busy.

    Yup.

    I’m now thoroughly convinced that the fact that this is NOT happening ANYWHERE is indicative of just how much actual priority the formation and sustainment of Christian families enjoys among those who dress up as “Christians.” That priority level, of course, is ZE-RO. It is in the area of marriage and family that most “Christians” show themselves to be no different than the World. Indeed, given the hostility they show to the ideas expressed here, their love of said World is confirmed in spades.

    They also need to put in the effort into raising their children to be good mates. Something so sorely lacking that I found it breathtaking to contemplate why parents even expect their children to be married someday. If you don’t put the effort in, you won’t get the reward out, it’s that simple. Input equals desired output.

    Yet another tell as to how firmly the World has its grip on the majority of Sunday morning pew warmers. The World today doesn’t believe in proactive parenting and neither do most “Christians,” as evidenced by the behavior of most “Christian” youth.

    We can also interpret the lack of proactive efforts by Christian parents to help their children form successful Christian families of their own as evidence that not only do these parents not value marriage and family themselves but, like so many non-believing parents, probably regret having married and created families themselves in the first place and would not have done it at all if they had the chance to do it all over again.

    Twiddling thumbs won’t work.

    What, you mean empty rhetoric or just “ignor[ing the problem] and it will go away” won’t get our children married off?! The horror!!! God has abandoned us!!!!

    The other issue I have with current ‘Christian’ culture is that Christian parents are okay sending their children off to state colleges thinking they will find a suitable mate there. Never mind that the college culture, including the disastrous SWJ culture, will rub off on their children and turn them into unmarriageable idiot savants. They just expect everything to work its way out.

    Again, the fact that parents have no problems sending their children, unprepared and spiritually unarmed, out into the World tells us that, in addition to being lazy, neglectful, and apathetic, they really don’t see the World world as a threat.

    God is not interested in finding your children mates, that’s your job. Get to it.

    To be clear, God is VERY interested in your children having mates. It’s true, though, that he is NOT going to drop one into their laps from out of the sky and that it IS Christian parents’ responsibility to help guide their children in the process of successfully finding believing mates and forming families. This is something that Christian parents did for centuries as a matter of course – until the modern era, when pretense replaced real faith and parents stopped being parents.

  262. earl says:

    ‘MANY women are not only NOT valuable, but a drain, and definitely not enjoyable.

    Proverbs 21:9 It is better to live in a corner of a roof Than in a house shared with a contentious woman.

    Proverbs 21:19 It is better to live in a desert land Than with a contentious and vexing woman.

    Proverbs 25:24 It is better to live in a corner of the roof Than in a house shared with a contentious woman.

    SOME women are valuable and make their company enjoyable. Other women drain a man’s soul. A wise man know’s how to spot the difference between the two, and a wise woman knows how to be the former, and avoid becoming the latter. That’s why so many Proverbs are devoted to explaining the difference between the two.’

    The value Proverbs is talking about is her heart fellas…no matter what she looks like that will change as she gets older.

    Quite simply it’s better to be single than to be with a woman like that…however if you do find that rare jewel it’s better to be married to her than to be single.

  263. Trust says:

    The sexual revolution has also caused women to devalue themselves while simultaneously perceive themselves as overvalued, especially in comparison with any respectable men they may marry.

    Men will very commonly have sex with women of lower sexual rank than them, just because they are attractive enough and available, but they would never dream of marrying such men.

    Women on the other hand will very seldom have sex with men of lower sexual rank. They will, however, regularly have sex with men who are of higher sexual rank, i.e. the carousel. Yet, when looking for a husband, they will look for traits other than sexual and marry a man of higher provider status even though his sexual attractiveness is less.

    The end result of this in marriage, the wife is probably among the most attractive partners a man has had, whereas the husband is probably among the least attractive partners she has had. To complicate this, a woman who is a 7 who has been pumped by 9s and 10s is very likely to think she is on the level of a 9 or 10.

    A close female friend of mine is attractive enough to have bedded two celebrities, both of whom married much hotter women. She admits that having been ridden by celebrities has made enjoying sex with other men difficult. Any dependable provider seems boring and unappealing when compared to a celebrity penis that could have picked any one of a thousand women that night.

    Even christian women fail to realize that biblical restrictions on sex weren’t for the benefit of the patriarchy, it was to protect women from their own nature. My friend is a good example, as I know her well and know she would be much happier had she married a respectable man and did not have the celebrity pumps to compare him to.

  264. earl says:

    I don’t think it has much to do with the perceived value of the man…it’s the fact once they become one there is always remnants of that man in them. And I mean that physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Even the ones we think are high ranking get divorced and cheated on.

  265. BillyS says:

    FH and feeriker,

    The Church has a lousy record of connecting any kind of group in a godly way. We can’t expect them to be better with young singles either, unfortunately, without a major attitude shift on the role of the Church.

    Elspeth,

    You say your husband has a hard time seeing things in one area, yet is perfect in another area, applying the same principles? I would definitely question that. We tend to carry our struggles across application areas. His very strength is his greatest weakness, as with most things in life.

    Why don’t you or he try to work on matchmaking? Do you know absolutely no eligible males? Are none in your church or extended networks? If some are, but have been ruled out, could it be that your standards are as high as the woman discussed in the OP?

  266. Trust says:

    @earl says:
    Even the ones we think are high ranking get divorced and cheated on.
    ________

    I agree with that. The very act of becoming a girl’s husband renders even an attractive man less appealing to his wife than he was to her before the wedding. There are many reasons for this, a few noteworthy ones are: 1) she now has the full power of the state at her disposal; 2) she has been marinated since birth in the notion that husbands are buffoons; 3) cash and prizes if she screws the pool boy and/or detonates the family; and 4) his most potent weapon, “if you don’t put out I’ll replace you with someone who will”, has been voluntarily forfeited.

  267. Jack Russell says:

    Mandy is going to have a hard time finding a man now. Some of her articles would not be out of place in Cosmo or feministing. Who ever shows an interest in her is going to search out her name, and find her name and site and hopefully knows what he will be getting into.

  268. jason says:

    Okay…..I’ll just say it.

    Can anyone attest to the fact that many Christian women are just plain boring. Inside and out. Look, I don’t need a woman like Mandy here who in all of her shots looks like she’s ready to go to the beach, a Miami nightclub, or what passes for a ‘country girl’ look today….

    I like the more studious type if truth be told (hey, I spent my twenties in the 1990’s…between Kennedy on MTV and Lisa Loeb I had no chance!!!).

    But in all seriousness here……real talk…….church girls are pretty boring. Let’s take the last fellowship and seminar I went to with The Salvation Army in 2015. It was held in Colorado Springs. A few thousand Salvationists from all over the USA. I was selected to go from my district. Frumpy women many of which you didn’t see the ‘Joy of the Lord’ in them. The only things they were interested in were “church stuff” (women’s group, anything in the church having to do with children, ministries to stop human traffic……..). One woman I met from Virginia was quite cute but had the personality of a damp rag. Hobbies? Just children. Goals? Just want to be a mom. Interests? Children. What kind of man are you looking for? A man who loves Jesus, and children

    I mean, I have a heart in the Salvation Army for the addict. I was one myself for a very long time…..but I dance, I camp, I hike, I backpack. I am a voracious reader. I like history. I like learning for just the sake of learning. I like The Boy Scouts. I skateboard still. I want a Christian adventure with a wife. I want to talk about all kinds of things. I want her to be that one who has my back. I want to really be intimate with her, and have a cool, strong, loyal marriage with her…..

    Christian dating sites…all the women talk about their “ministry” like it was their identity. They have zero interests that don’t necessarily drive a guy like me “wild with desire” or inspire a heart to pursue…..I mean, I want to have discussions. I want to love them, grow on them…..I don’t want an icy-cold marriage with a woman.

    These same women will snap like wolverines on speed telling you that “submission” isn’t being a doormat……..or doesn’t mean what the Bible says…..yet they for the most part have some of the most submissive attitudes concerning what they want in life.

    Anyone else notice this?

  269. Oscar says:

    @ jason

    “I mean, I have a heart in the Salvation Army for the addict. I was one myself for a very long time… ”

    Experiences that are far outside the norm can ruin a person for normal life. It happens frequently to Soldiers who’ve experienced lots of combat. Your experience as an addict may have ruined you for normal women, even good ones.

  270. seventiesjason says:

    @Oscar

    Valid point, and I fully understand the consequences of MY sin here concerning addiction. The results and wreckage from this may indeed keep me single.

    All I can do is stay clean and sober (fourteen years. No relapse ever… nasty cocaine addiction for many years in SF). All I can do is say “I was, but now” and I am proof of a redeemed life.

    I understand my past and do know that many a woman will view this as a red flag. I get it.

    I am thankful and grateful for my sobriety. I owe this to Christ only.

    I also though am perplexed that “I” am supposed to pursue women, be this amazing provider, ask them out, and yet not even look at her as a helper. It’s all about her needs. Esp the ones my age….boy when did GenX women get snarly and entitled 🙂

  271. Novaseeker says:

    Mandy is going to have a hard time finding a man now. Some of her articles would not be out of place in Cosmo or feministing. Who ever shows an interest in her is going to search out her name, and find her name and site and hopefully knows what he will be getting into.

    LOL. There are men tripping over themselves to woo her. That isn’t her issue. Her issue is that she wants a certain kind of man, and, yes, THAT man will be hard to find now. And her attitude is “well, if I can’t get that kind of man, then screw it, I’ll be alone”.

    Really guys this is WGTOW.

  272. Boxer says:

    Novaseeker:

    And her attitude is “well, if I can’t get that kind of man, then screw it, I’ll be alone”.

    I believe that by ‘alone’ you really mean ‘unmarried’.

    Of course, I don’t have physical evidence, but I’d wager a month’s salary that Mandy is not only not a virgin, but that she has at least one dude who she sees for sex on the downlow, and that she has seen him within the last couple of weeks.

    Note: I’m actually pretty sure that she has several dudes and rotates new ones into her orbit on a regular basis. I know women like this personally. I do want to give her the benefit of some sort of discretion, though.

    Boxer

  273. Novaseeker says:

    most church singles groups have too much of a mix of statuses going on which is a big turn off to young, chaste singles.

    Yeah church singles groups are a disaster — completely useless because so many different people in different phases of life and it is terrible for everyone involved. It’s a main reason why most Christians do not meet people at church.

  274. Novaseeker says:

    Esp the ones my age….boy when did GenX women get snarly and entitled

    LOL, they always were, at least as far back as I can remember in college in the mid-80s. Our generation of women is a nasty, nasty bunch. They imbibed deeply of second wave feminism — like really deeply.

    Of course, I don’t have physical evidence, but I’d wager a month’s salary that Mandy is not only not a virgin, but that she has at least one dude who she sees for sex on the downlow, and that she has seen him within the last couple of weeks.

    Note: I’m actually pretty sure that she has several dudes and rotates new ones into her orbit on a regular basis. I know women like this personally. I do want to give her the benefit of some sort of discretion, though.

    Yeah, of course, I meant married. I also have no doubt she is sexually engaged. It’s pretty obvious from her look and manner. And her Christian feminist theology would have no moral problem with that, either — when it comes to *women*, of course, not when it comes to men.

  275. Boxer says:

    Dear Jack:

    Mandy is going to have a hard time finding a man now. Some of her articles would not be out of place in Cosmo or feministing. Who ever shows an interest in her is going to search out her name, and find her name and site and hopefully knows what he will be getting into.

    I think she’ll have a hard time finding a man who meets her own (unreasonable) standards, who simultaneously wants to commit to her.

    I’ve largely stayed out of the debate about her looks. Her professionally done photograph was quite alluring, but once I saw her youtube video (perhaps made a few years later than the photo) I got a look at a woman with a horse-face, and a very abrasive attitude. Would you like to promise to live with that, day in and day out, for the rest of your life? I didn’t think so.

    On the other hand, Mandy would have a very easy time finding a perfectly nice, wholesome, Christian provider to marry. There are tons of nice Christian guys who want a wife, all of whom are very forgiving. Of course, they won’t be the sexy buff millionaire that this ho’ clearly thinks she’s entitled to.

    Additionally, In order for this to work, Mandy will need to quit whoring, laser off any skank-ho tattoos, adopt a reasonable and submissive wifely attitude, and start feeling properly embarrassed about publicly playing the fool for years on youtube. That is the impossible task which one of these ho’s should be required to perform if she wants a decent man to pay her bills. You seem to have your doubts that Mandy is strong or self-aware enough to pull this off, and I’ll second them.

    Boxer

  276. Oscar says:

    @ seventiesjason says:
    July 9, 2017 at 6:43 pm

    “I understand my past and do know that many a woman will view this as a red flag. I get it.”

    That’s true, and I’m glad you recognize it, but that’s not what I meant when I said that your experience as an addict may have ruined you for normal women.

    “Cocaine is a hell of a drug”, Rick James said. So is adrenaline, and there’s no rush like the rush of hunting men who are simultaneously hunting you. Consequently, many Soldiers who return from combat feel normal life is mind-numbingly, soul-suckingly boring. I did. Most of us get over it. Some don’t.

    Likewise, after living the life of an addict, you crave more excitement than normal life – or normal women – can provide. Most men don’t have that problem. You do. Normal simply isn’t all that exciting. For most people, that’s fine. For you, it isn’t. It’s important to know that about yourself.

    There are exciting, adventurous Christian women out there, and you’re much more likely to find them on the mission field. However, keep in mind that they bring their own sets of issues.

  277. Luke says:

    Trust says:
    July 9, 2017 at 2:11 pm
    @earl says:
    “Even the ones we think are high ranking get divorced and cheated on.”
    ________

    “I agree with that. The very act of becoming a girl’s husband renders even an attractive man less appealing to his wife than he was to her before the wedding. There are many reasons for this, a few noteworthy ones are: 1) she now has the full power of the state at her disposal; 2) she has been marinated since birth in the notion that husbands are buffoons; 3) cash and prizes if she screws the pool boy and/or detonates the family; and 4) his most potent weapon, “if you don’t put out I’ll replace you with someone who will”, has been voluntarily forfeited.

    It’s Briffault’s Law in action.
    https://www.stickmanbangkok.com/readers-submissions/2009/11/the-rosetta-stone-of-womens-behavior/

    I will emphasize one clause of BL, and give an example illustrating this:

    A) “Past benefit provided by the male does not provide for continued or future association.
    Any agreement where the male provides a current benefit in return for a promise of future association is null and void as soon as the male has provided the benefit.”

    B) Think of a new car at a dealership, priced (let’s say) at 40 grand. When someone buys it, and drives it off the lot, it loses about 15 grand in value in the first 20 feet. So it is with marriage for men. Men IMO thus lose at least 2 points of SMV to their wives when they marry. The needs for the wife to pretend otherwise for a while (so she can say to other women and to herself she got a great catch/didn’t settle), to consumnate the marriage so annulment’s off the table, and to get any kids she wants (esp. for child support) out of him, etc., delay this being obvious for a while.
    But, once she gains weight, cuts out the enthusiasm/fellatio/frequency of sex, becomes a spendthrift, constantly critical, etc., it’s clear that the reality (as she perceives it) has fully sunk in.

    The lesson if a man wants a good relationship with a woman? Never marry her, cohabitate with her, or have a chilld with her (includes adopting or even becoming attached to any divorce bastards she has accumulated from frivorce or bad boy’s bastards from her penis carousel days), nor become financially or otherwise business-wise dependent upon her, and his odds are way better.
    Oh, and when the sex goes, he should stop calling, until she lets him know that she’s fixed whatever’s wrong inside her head, or (more likely) he’s moved on.

  278. seventiesjason says:

    Lol@Oscar!

    I get what you mean. My life got very boring at first when I quit the drugs and drink. Got even slower when I decided that the “San Francisco years” had indeed ended to zero applause and were over by moving to Fresno (which I have learned to call home and actually enjoy). I lived in SF from 1996-2009. Got really low and soul-sucked when the waiter brought the bill for all I had ignored, and let go as my cocaine use became a full blown addiction…. and I couldn’t pay. I had to start all over.

    I lead a pretty active life again, like I did in college and most of my twenties. I serve, do things, have had a rebirth that can only be attributed to the touch of God.

    Not me you say? I say “why not me?”

    Plenty of people through Christ got new leases on life, purpose, an adventure worth more than a career or stuff.

    I know it isn’t much to ask for a potential helper to have a few interests outside of ministry, a vocabulary, an intellect (supposedly Christianity is a thinking persons faith) and something about them that makes then unique about who they are in Christ.

    Christian women gripe and moan in general about Christian men being unexciting, but have met more than a few sisters who don’t do a thing and expect a man with all the quality of a factory new, high-end Mercedes at the price (and investment on their part) of a 1976 Plymouth Volare.

    Me giving a red flag to women. Probably more than a few….but me out of league or line for a normal woman? If normal is looking like Mandy, being as boring as compared to shopping for a toilet seat and inane conversations….well, maybe I should be single. Heck, I am almost fifty. Not putting all my hopes and dreams on a woman…even a Christian one at this point 🙂

  279. Luke says:

    Seventiesjason, here’s an idea for you, that reconciles the desirability of fatherhood with the low appeal (and enormous risk) of marriage to a typical Ameriskank, even a Churchian one:
    Do what I did, only taken one step further to the Toban Morrison level.
    I spent 80 grand plus for the combination of a 23-YO egg donor, a very competent fertility clinic, and a 23-YO gestational surrogate, for a set of wonderful, fully-healthy fraternal twin daughters. (I was 49 at their conception.). My only mistake was to remarry to do this, when I should have simply hired the post-birth help I needed (nanny/governess). Do this, without marriage, cohabitation, a post-birth relationship with either the egg donor or GS, or impregnating any woman not a contracted GS, and NEVER (!) let a woman legally adopt your children, and you’ll never lose them to frivorce theft. (No chilamony risk, either.)

  280. BillyS says:

    I wouldn’t recommend Luke’s path since it means the child(ren) will not have a mother. God made children to do best with both a mother and a father.

    Go the celibate route and stay single if you don’t want to face the risk of marriage. I would have no problem with that, especially since you seem quite active in ministry. It would be following the pattern Paul set.

    Your past will be an issue, but I doubt it is as much of an issue as it would be for a woman with the same background. Frumpy is frumpy, and too many Christian women think that is fine. Married life can get boring, so check your attitude and ability to adapt to day-to-day life, but it seems like you have done at least some of that already.

    Reading lots of books on history (as it seems based on what you posted) is not the same thrill problem of a drug. Do evaluate your own need for stimulation now and make sure you really have calmed down though. It may be best to just remain single, ignoring all the other factors, if you still have that deep drive bothering you, since real life doesn’t provide that, especially in most marriages.

  281. BillyS says:

    I would love to find an older geeky Christian woman who was virtuous, but I don’t expect to do so, especially since I would need one that was not outside my attractiveness range, which is closer to thin than most of the current offerings.

  282. feeriker says:

    Do this, without marriage, cohabitation, a post-birth relationship with either the egg donor or GS, or impregnating any woman not a contracted GS, and NEVER (!) let a woman legally adopt your children, and you’ll never lose them to frivorce theft. (No chilamony risk, either.)

    I wouldn’t count on this being a “safe” strategy forever, or even for very much longer in the near future.

    In the wake of the recent Kansas court ruling that has forced a sperm donor to cough up child support (he donated sperm to a lesbian couple) even after he signed away all claims to parental rights, don’t think for a second that any agreement regarding surrogacy is sacrosanct or inviolable (the corrupt judiciary of this country has been interfering contracts for over 150 years). If it is politically expedient to do so (i.e., playing white knight to a damseling skank-ho), the courts will tear a father’s family to shreds. Say, for example, that the egg donor or the GS suddenly decides on a whim that your babies are part of HER and that she therefore has a right to partial custody. If she plays the martyr/victim role convincingly enough, the courts will likely side with her, legal precedent and sanctity of contract be damned.

    Just something to think about. Best damned advice for a North American man in this day and age: keep your DNA to yourself!

  283. Dale says:

    seventiesjason
    >All I can do is say “I was, but now” and I am proof of a redeemed life.

    Praise God! He does indeed act in our lives, demonstrating love.

  284. earl says:

    ‘Christian women gripe and moan in general about Christian men being unexciting, but have met more than a few sisters who don’t do a thing and expect a man with all the quality of a factory new, high-end Mercedes at the price (and investment on their part) of a 1976 Plymouth Volare.’

    It’s your classic case of projection again. They are often the ones bored (for whatever reason, most likely the hedonistic sewer we live in). It’s a double edged sword…oftentimes they’ll leave because they’ll blame the man for the fact they aren’t happy (or are bored) yet no man can provide constant excitement…you’ll either run out of energy, money, or die trying.

  285. earl says:

    ‘I lead a pretty active life again, like I did in college and most of my twenties. I serve, do things, have had a rebirth that can only be attributed to the touch of God.’

    And that’s the real cure for boredom…a relationship with God and an active lifestyle as a result. That produces fruit. Staying away from the false thrill of the sins of pride, lust, and greed which leads to acedia helps too.

  286. Spike says:

    Ofd topic bit worth looking at Dalrock:
    I and others have long suspected a link between Feminism and the Occult.
    Howard Dare has explored it also:

  287. feeriker says:

    And that’s the real cure for boredom…a relationship with God and an active lifestyle as a result. That produces fruit. Staying away from the false thrill of the sins of pride, lust, and greed which leads to acedia helps too.

    It’s amazing how “Christian” women constantly bemoan the idea that there are no Christian men out there who actively live their faith, and yet whenever one comes along who clearly DOES live an active life in service to Christ, they complain even more loudly. The reason, methinks, is that they know that a man living a life in service to Christ is a man who is not going to make THEM the center of their universe.

    Fried ice.

  288. earl says:

    ‘It’s amazing how “Christian” women constantly bemoan the idea that there are no Christian men out there who actively live their faith, and yet whenever one comes along who clearly DOES live an active life in service to Christ, they complain even more loudly. The reason, methinks, is that they know that a man living a life in service to Christ is a man who is not going to make THEM the center of their universe.’

    Well we can speculate all we want about the reasons why women complain…the fact of the matter is St. Augustine said it best:

    “You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.”

  289. earl says:

    ‘I also though am perplexed that “I” am supposed to pursue women, be this amazing provider, ask them out, and yet not even look at her as a helper. It’s all about her needs. Esp the ones my age….boy when did GenX women get snarly and entitled’

    When they decided to give up their duties. Put it this way…if you do your duties as described above (pursue, ask them out, provide) then you have succeeded as a man. Most women today fail in being a productive helper…they do however have a great knack in helping to destroy people through being promiscuous, snarly and entitled.

  290. Minesweeper says:

    Oscar says: ““Cocaine is a hell of a drug”, Rick James said. So is adrenaline, and there’s no rush like the rush of hunting men who are simultaneously hunting you. Consequently, many Soldiers who return from combat feel normal life is mind-numbingly, soul-suckingly boring. I did. Most of us get over it. Some don’t.

    Likewise, after living the life of an addict, you crave more excitement than normal life – or normal women – can provide. Most men don’t have that problem. You do. Normal simply isn’t all that exciting. For most people, that’s fine. For you, it isn’t. It’s important to know that about yourself.

    There are exciting, adventurous Christian women out there, and you’re much more likely to find them on the mission field. However, keep in mind that they bring their own sets of issues.”

    if its excitement your after/the feeling your in a never ending fire fight/where your world seems to trip over itself from one insanity to the next, without a moments downtime ever, then marrying a BPD female in a feminised culture is just right for you! Now we know they these are made 😀

  291. earl says:

    ‘Just something to think about. Best damned advice for a North American man in this day and age: keep your DNA to yourself!’

    Funny how the consequences of loose sexual morals somehow come back to the idea that chastity is in your best interests.

  292. Oscar says:

    @ seventiesjason says:
    July 9, 2017 at 8:23 pm

    “I know it isn’t much to ask for a potential helper to have a few interests outside of ministry, a vocabulary, an intellect (supposedly Christianity is a thinking persons faith) and something about them that makes then unique about who they are in Christ.”

    Actually, that IS a lot to ask for. If it wasn’t, you would have found it long ago.

    “If normal is looking like Mandy… ”

    She looks normal, physically. I’m not sure if that’s what you mean.

    “… being as boring as compared to shopping for a toilet seat and inane conversations….well, maybe I should be single. Heck, I am almost fifty.”

    Maybe you should. I hate to break it to you, but normal life consists mostly of boring, mundane stuff like shopping for and installing toilets. Heck, I did that just last Friday, right before going to my reserve training. Next weekend it’ll be a kitchen faucet. That’s normal life, and for most people that’s fine.

    Obviously, you require a lot more variety, excitement and stimulation in your life than the average person. Again, that’s fine, and you can use that to glorify God (and it sounds like you are). But you need to understand that most people aren’t like you. Most people don’t need or want that much variety, excitement or stimulation in their lives, especially not in their late 40s.

    Again, that’s who you are, and that’s fine, but the drawback is that few people are like you, which is why you’ve had such a difficult time finding a woman who requires or wants the amount of stimulation that you do. If that really is what you need, and you can’t find a woman who needs the same, then it probably is better that you avoid marriage.

  293. Stryker7200 says:

    @Desiderius

    You are a cautionary tale man. I hope you didn’t marry your wife after you were redpilled.

    “She finally divorced her husband after twelve years when he reneged on his promise to have children with her. ”

    So you married a woman that divorced her husband for not wanting kids. I’m not a theologian but there is no biblical bases for divorcing a spouse that doesn’t want kids.

    Not only did you marry a rebellious (Not a “good wife”) woman that divorced her husband in sin, she was what, 35 when you jumped on it?

    Then you had to get some eggs from a fresh young 24 yr old to reproduce. So you have to commit to an old maid and can’t even enjoy the youth of your kids biological mother. Sounds like a raw deal to me. I hope you are happy in your marriage and that your kids are healthy, but I wouldn’t wish any man make the decisions you have.

  294. JudgeMontrose says:

    @thedeti
    Thanks!

  295. PokeSalad says:

    These same women will snap like wolverines on speed

    I laughed 🙂

    telling you that “submission” isn’t being a doormat……..or doesn’t mean what the Bible says…..yet they for the most part have some of the most submissive attitudes concerning what they want in life.

    Anyone else notice this?

    Sure, in my mind and experience, it usually means that they are ‘submissive’ for as long as they care to be, until hubby directs something with which they disagree. “You can lead me anywhere you want as long as it’s where I want to go” mindset.

    It’s a lot easier to act submissive when you are still on the market.

  296. BillyS says:

    I have seen several dating profile of “christians” who look like witches….

  297. Luke says:

    feeriker says:
    July 9, 2017 at 11:15 pm
    “Do this, without marriage, cohabitation, a post-birth relationship with either the egg donor or GS, or impregnating any woman not a contracted GS, and NEVER (!) let a woman legally adopt your children, and you’ll never lose them to frivorce theft. (No chilamony risk, either.)”

    “I wouldn’t count on this being a “safe” strategy forever, or even for very much longer in the near future.

    In the wake of the recent Kansas court ruling that has forced a sperm donor to cough up child support (he donated sperm to a lesbian couple) even after he signed away all claims to parental rights, don’t think for a second that any agreement regarding surrogacy is sacrosanct or inviolable (the corrupt judiciary of this country has been interfering contracts for over 150 years). If it is politically expedient to do so (i.e., playing white knight to a damseling skank-ho), the courts will tear a father’s family to shreds. Say, for example, that the egg donor or the GS suddenly decides on a whim that your babies are part of HER and that she therefore has a right to partial custody. If she plays the martyr/victim role convincingly enough, the courts will likely side with her, legal precedent and sanctity of contract be damned.

    Just something to think about. Best damned advice for a North American man in this day and age: keep your DNA to yourself!”

    That is why a man following the reproductive strategy I suggest will ONLY use a gestational surrogate that is currently MARRIED. (Most fertility clinics also helpfully normally require GSs to have had a previous successful pregnancy & birth, helping the clinic’s stats and the odds for the IPs, or “intended parents”.) A husband who’d MUCH rather have the promised 30 grand than another man’s child sitting at his table for the next 17-25 years is great insurance against what I call “Madonna Syndrome” (a GS deciding that she is pregnant with the Messiah and couldn’t POSSIBLY give him away (“like he was a “thing”) post-delivery. Our GS (already had a 3-YO) went on to have a second child about a year after bearing ours.

    Oh, and IPs normally have a fairly close relationship with the GS for easily a year (3 or 4 months pre-embryo transfer, and during the subsequent 36-40 weeks), so you get to size the GS up ahead of time.

    Lastly, the egg donors are usually near-graduation college students/recent broke college graduates, both of whom are careerists intent on money way more than family. If they didn’t want any time soon (e.g., pre-Wall) to bear their own ova to make babies, what are the odds that they’d want them BACK in, ah, “gently used” condition, when they didn’t bond with them during gestation and babyhood? Sure, she’ll want the kids back at age 13, just in time for adolescent rebelliousness and college tuition. I don’t see that as very likely.

  298. Luke says:

    Bumped for the day crew. (I really wanted to continue the discussion of gestational surrogacy/egg donation as alternatives to likely frivorce and child theft.)

  299. I am willing to be a step-dad with a Christian woman who has indeed “repented” and says…”yeah, pride / foolishness / my bad choices caused this but I don’t live like that anymore and I DON’T live like that anymore” (fruit of the spirit would be carefully watched by me)

    Me fathering children at this stage of my life? No way. Foster children / teenagers? Sure.

    However I do live in “this world” and realize and understand that my odds are diminishing even for a single mother, or a single, never married woman as well who is *around* my age. I really don’t want to get involved with a twenty-something……wouldn’t be able to handle that……someone no more than ten years younger or ten years older.

    The Christian women in this category in general really don’t want to “do” anything except “travel” or “shop and complain”. They don’t want to be led. They expect a Christian man my age to be back in school to get a “better job” or already have a house, the timeshare, two cars, enough money to send her spawn to college, enough money for big hair, purses, shoes…..

    Just tiresome. Looking for a woman who likes to read. Not Cosmo or “Christian romance novels”
    btw. Looks okay for her age. Wants more than to just change her hair color or nail color and has a few interests besides her “womens ministry”

    You would think it would be easy. Every Christian pundit and frat-boy pastor with his name in lights makes it out that if you are a man who “loves Jesus and serves in church” you are going to have plenty of women to choose from.

    Hardly. The pickiness is really bothersome with most of my Christian sisters and too many spent all their free time writing “future love letters to her husband” and creating a fantasy in that of what he has to be instead of just giving it to Christ, and finding the things SHE likes for what they are in a total Christian sense. I see a lot of entitlement, expectations on a man that only Christ could fulfill and a focus on what the man “does” for work.

    I mean, Jesus was a carpenter, and NOT ONCE did he ever talk about his “earthly job” or how “great” he was at it. Carpenters in his day were not Union with benefits, and pension either.

    Just sayin 🙂

  300. BillyS says:

    Luke,

    Different threads of thought often intertwine in these replies.

  301. “Beautiful uncertainty” more like “I just can’t make my old up & I’m out of time”😂😂😂
    Welcome to the so called modern woman.

  302. earl says:

    ‘The Christian women in this category in general really don’t want to “do” anything except “travel” or “shop and complain”. They don’t want to be led.’

    I’m telling you…along with pride, ennui is the biggest thing standing in the way of women actually finding some semblance of happiness. The minute I hear the word ‘bored’, ‘not excited’, ‘no passion’ coming from a woman she’s going to somehow blame the guy for it instead of looking at the real problem.

  303. davidtaylor2 says:

    @Elspeth

    However, I am not sure what a woman, even one who isn’t necessarily passively waiting, is supposed to do when it simply isn’t happening.

    It “isn’t happening” because:
    1) She missed her window
    2) She’s rejected all the men that have crossed her path because they weren’t good enough
    3) She wants to be a Single Married Woman. All the benefits of being single AND all the benefits of being married, with none of the responsibilities of either.

    What should she do besides find peace and contentment in the state which she is in?

    All of her noise about “peace and contentment” is proof that she’s not at peace or content. Because people that are don’t make noise about it.

    Presenting as a desperate, baby rabies infected creature is certainly not exactly an alluring look nor helpful for attracting a husband.

    If she knew or could see any of that, she wouldn’t do it.

  304. davidtaylor2 says:

    @imnobody00

    Another problem is that women don’t perceive the loss of their own physical attractiveness. Nobody has explained the reason yet and I am really curious.

    You see women divorcing during their forties and expecting to ride the carousel with the same type of men they were able to attract during their twenties.

    Because women don’t see with their eyes, they see with their feelings.

    When a woman looks in the mirror, she does not see what’s there. She sees how she feels about what’s there.
    It’s why eating disorders are more concentrated in women.
    It’s why women can marry or sleep with ugly men and get past it.
    It’s why nice looking/low status men are literally invisible to women.

    Women are tied into their ears and their emotions. Not their eyes.

  305. Spacetraveller says:

    Dearest Elspeth,

    Understood, and thank you.

    I wish your daughters and their similarly-aged friends all the best in this crazy marriage-market. I have a particular penchant for seeing everyone who should be married, married. To this end, I pray daily for marriage-minded people. Your young girls are thus automatically on my prayer list, as are indeed any men here who are looking for a wife.

    May I dedicate the video below to your girls and their friends, Elspeth, in the joyous knowledge that they are what is being described here. I think all the young ladies in the video are so beautiful, (not just the bride) and the groom and his friends too. THIS is my version of ‘Red Pill’, where women look and act like women, and men look and act like men.

    I know you are not culturally African, (only racially/ethnically so) and therefore most likely don’t understand the African language mixed in with English here (neither do I, lol), but I imagine your daughters may look something like this…

    Just remember, when the day arrives for your daughers, there are daily flights out from Switzerland to USA, and Spacetraveller is not flight-phobic 😉 An invitation is MANDATORY!

    Peace…

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