Don’t refer to God as the Father, call him a “Best Friend”.

In A radical Father’s Day proposal I introduced Honor Your Father Today, a group that is proposing that Christians honor their fathers on Father’s Day.  Yet even though they propose honoring fathers, they are clearly conflicted about the idea.  They explain that a sudden and mysterious change in fathers (and not feminist rebellion) is the reason we have an epidemic of broken homes:

In a society where fatherlessness (or at least dads who aren’t stepping up to the plate) runs rampant, one thought must race through the minds of so many men and women out there: “How do you honor someone who isn’t honorable?”

Given this attitude it isn’t surprising that Honor Your Father Today struggles greatly to think of ways that Christians could actually honor their fathers.  The foreignness of honoring fathers comes out most clearly on their resources page:

Use these resources as a tool to help honor fathers and help with our campaign.

I’ll go through other items on the resource page in the next few days, but today I will focus on the example sermons they offer, and primarily on the 2016 Honor Your Father Sermon.  The sermon offers three different impressions Christians might have of fathers:

We each have personal images intricately tied to the tender yet powerful word, “father.” For some, the visualization of “father” is an always-smiling, ready-to-embrace-you, tender man who instantly promotes feelings of joy and acceptance. Others remember the massive, outstretched hand that seemed to pull a never-ending supply of candy from his trouser pockets. There are also those who hear the word, “father,” and conjure up images of a scowling, rumpled brow, and disappointed frown that seemed to cut the heart of a child, desperately longing for expressions of his approval. Finally, there are others who may simply draw a blank when they try to visualize a father. As empty as a fresh pack of computer paper, no matter how many pages they turn, the landscape is full of empty memories. No calls, no visits, no talks with dad.

Note that this boils down to:

  1. Good fathers, who are a never ending supply of positive affirmation, hugs and candy.
  2. Bad fathers, who hurt their children by being mean.
  3. Absent fathers.

It gets worse later in the sermon, where it explains that because we have an epidemic of bad fathers, we should (at times) avoid calling God the Father, and instead think of him as a best friend:

It’s so sad the number of people who have an unhealthy fear of their father. It has a negative impact on their lives and especially on their attitude toward God. They have a skewed image of God as only a wrathful, angry, hostile God. Their God is a person they want to avoid, and that’s not accurate. He loves us.

A young woman taught Sunday school in an inner-city mission project. “In the projects,” she says, “when you talk to the kids, you never refer to God as father. With these inner-city kids, ‘father’ is likely to bring up thoughts of the man who left me, the man who beats me, who beats my mother. The kids have so many negative images of fathers. So we always refer to God as a best friend. The kids know what that is. It’s a positive concept. We start there and work into God’s other attributes.”

What About You?

Maybe you had a horrible father. That may well affect your relationship with God. It may be wise for you to think first of God as a best friend. Approach Him as a best friend…

This is a sermon offered as a way to honor fathers on Father’s Day, and it explains that since fathers are so dishonorable we should avoid calling God the Father!

They offer a second sermon on the resources page, simply titled the Honor Your Father Sermon.  This sermon isn’t quite as bad as the first sermon, but it still focuses a great deal on how terrible fathers are, and blames the feminist rebellion in the church on abusive and neglectful fathers:

…consider the women’s ministry leader who is vengeful toward any male authority figure who questions her leadership. The connection between such resentment could relate to the tragedy of childhood neglect or abuse of some kind.

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This entry was posted in Complementarian, Disrespecting Respectability, Father's Day, Fatherhood, Honor Your Father Today, Traditional Conservatives, You can't make this stuff up. Bookmark the permalink.

49 Responses to Don’t refer to God as the Father, call him a “Best Friend”.

  1. Pingback: Don’t refer to God as the Father, call him a “Best Friend”. | @the_arv

  2. Lost Patrol says:

    First.

  3. OKRickety says:

    Indeed, the focus on the behavior of fathers seems to be on their failure to be perfect. In contrast, I wonder how there seems to be a complete cover-up for the failures of some mothers. After all, it seems quite likely that some mothers are, for example, often abusive, never-pleased, or unavailable (emotionally or physically). I am not advocating that mothers should generally be considered to be complete washouts in their roles, but their imperfections should not be ignored totally, either.

  4. Gunner Q says:

    “This is a sermon offered as a way to honor fathers on Father’s Day, and it explains that since fathers are so dishonorable we should avoid calling God the Father!”

    The rebellion comes full circle.

  5. Paul Whiting says:

    They seem muddled about what a good father is. A good father is precisely not a best friend. It is their job to be tough. Their approval shouldn’t be too easily given. The job of a father is not to have a happy child, but to raise a strong adult.

  6. feministhater says:

    This is a parody, right?! Shit on fathers and then wonder why no one wants to be one! Haha! Hilarious! Oh man, my sides hurt!

  7. infowarrior1 says:

    There must be good reason why God refer to himself as “He” And our Lord and his people call him under the inspiration of the spirit as father. From whom all fatherhood derives its name.

  8. Out of Nod says:

    If you don’t like the idea of the Christian God being likened to a father, you may be worshiping a
    false god. According to google, there are 63 verses in the bible that reference God in a patriarchal tone. The Lord’s prayers begins with “Our Father…” and is a staple in many a denominations ritual of worship. Any preacher who refuses this teaching is a heretic and a false a prophet.

  9. Fred Flange, GBFC (Great Books for Cucks) says:

    I would add the trend of calling God “the best friend” is part of the de-masculinization of the Deity in general one sees now and again. As the National Lampoon used to joke, “worship your God in whatever form you conceive – be he hairy thunderer or cosmic muffin.” I know of a music performance or two deliberately being “daring” with the liturgy where the final Gloria is sung: “Glory be to our Mother and to her Son…” etc. Or a version of “Joy To the World” where a woman’s choir sings the second verse: “She rules the world with truth and grace.”

  10. Frank K says:

    ” I know of a music performance or two deliberately being “daring” with the liturgy where the final Gloria is sung: “Glory be to our Mother and to her Son…” etc.”

    I’m guessing that was in either an Anglican/Episcopal or a Lutheran (ELCA) church.

  11. Darwinian Arminian says:

    For some, the visualization of “father” is an always-smiling, ready-to-embrace-you, tender man who instantly promotes feelings of joy and acceptance. Others remember the massive, outstretched hand that seemed to pull a never-ending supply of candy from his trouser pockets. There are also those who hear the word, “father,” and conjure up images of a scowling, rumpled brow, and disappointed frown that seemed to cut the heart of a child, desperately longing for expressions of his approval. Finally, there are others who may simply draw a blank when they try to visualize a father.

    They’re pretty much admitting that they can’t conceive of a father’s role as serving any purpose beyond stroking the egos of their wives and kids. Dole out the treats, and always with a big grin on your face — but fail that, and you’re a cruel and/or thoughtless tyrant who deserves disrespect. Because loving someone means giving them whatever they want and always making them feel good about themselves.

    If this is the pastor’s outlook then is it safe to assume he doesn’t even know who God is in the first place? The God of the Bible describes Himself as a Father, but He also says in both the Old and New Testaments that His children should not only love Him, they should fear Him. He’s not shy about telling them that He’ll give them hard times, but reminds them that they should be seen as evidence of His care since the Father disciplines those He loves. There are even instances when the children can step too far away, and the Father declares that at least for a while, he will respond by leaving them to see how well they can manage under their own ability. The God of the Bible, in short, is exactly the sort of father that these pastors would be eager to hand one of their “Bad Dad” awards. Discipline? Correction? Authority? No! Someone needs to tell Yahweh that fatherhood is all about smiles and candy.

  12. This is exactly how the Feminine Imperative will finally emasculate God from the Bible and church. Fathers and men are so reviled in church culture that male references to God will be erased and/or be gender neutralized by the men of the church themselves.

    This is the degree to which these “pastors” want to identify with the feminine.”Good Dads” are defined by feminine characteristics:

    For some, the visualization of “father” is an always-smiling, ready-to-embrace-you, tender man who instantly promotes feelings of joy and acceptance.

    It is time that christian men see the church for what it is – openly, actively hostile to men and anything considered conventionally masculine. The church has been assimilated by the Feminine Imperative and its fat Beta pastors are willing participants in its emasculation.

  13. Cane Caldo says:

    Theology, according to Dr. Benjamin Spock, delivered by Mommas-boys.

  14. Darwinian Arminian says:

    Maybe you had a horrible father. That may well affect your relationship with God. It may be wise for you to think first of God as a best friend. Approach Him as a best friend…

    . . . If the pastor is feeling especially bold, he can give this sermon the title, “Putting God in the Friend Zone.”

  15. Damn Crackers says:

    This view isn’t new. I remember reading Sallie McFague in college, “Models of God.” The whole work is how the God as Father metaphor is outdated. She attempts to use “God as Mother”, “God as Lover”, and “God as Best Friend.” I’m not surprised Churchianity is resorting to these ideas now.

  16. Jonadab-the-Rechabite says:

    Yahweh reveals Himself as a Father, Jesus calls Him the Father. Yahweh reveals himself as holy and wrathful in the execution of His justice, but that the manner in which He has revealed himself is too harsh for the feel-good heretics who prefer their feelings to God’s revelation. Jesus is their boyfriend, the Father is their friend and the Holy Spirit is women’s feelings – that is when God is not a black woman behind the shack.

    Idolatry is essentially making a deity in some image or imaginations that are not according to how God has revealed Himself. The fear of God which is the beginning of wisdom is not present in the “friend” characterization, but that is the point. Fear expressed as reverence and honor are anathema to the feminist who like Eve want equality with men and God. They refuse to call their husband Lord because they are not daughters of Sarah, they loath the discipline of the Father because they are not His children. Patriarchy is the nature of God and His creation, but patriarchy is odious to those who think they know better than God.

    Feminism is a cancer that has metastasized into theology. Feminism is a war on truth, ethics and metaphysics. To honor Fathers is to honor patriarchy which is abhorrent to those who desire to be as gods.

  17. Dave says:

    According to google, there are 63 verses in the bible that reference God in a patriarchal tone.

    Maybe in one or two books of the Bible (e.g. Genesis and Exodus). In the Bible as a whole, God is referenced in patriarchal tone by many more verses, though I have yet to count them.

    This is exactly how the Feminine Imperative will finally emasculate God from the Bible and church….

    FI sure is gonna try, as did many misguided people through the past millennia, but it ain’t gonna happen.

    Psalm 2:

    1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
    2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
    3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
    4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
    5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
    6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
    7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
    8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
    9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
    10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
    11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
    12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

  18. “If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. We have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?” (Hebrews 12:8-9 ESV)

    Discipline, respect, subjection: these are not the categories a friendship is based on. A friend wouldn’t expect you to be “obedient” to him. But even Christ was “made perfect through suffering” (Hebrews 2:10). I’m not sure if these people are aware how drastic the implications are when you throw this Biblical understanding of fatherhood, and then the whole concept of the heavenly Father away.

    Or even worse: I’m not sure if they even CARE about the implications. Tolerance once meant to accept that other people have other truths. Today it means that you have to give up the concept of objective truth at all. Likewise, modern heretics don’t insist on a false interpretation anymore – they simply don’t care about the concept of “right” and “wrong” anymore; and they want you to not care either.

    And this is not only a problem in liberal circles. It’s the same in “conservative”, “right-wing”, etc. circles. They have their political opinion first and then try to make their theology match somehow. If you care about the text first and foremost, then it’s immediately “sectarianism” and “arrogance” or you’re just as bad as ISIS – because you care about the TRUTH.

    But these right-wing modernists don’t care about Sacred Scripture, they only care about the effect on a people’s birthrate and the effect on a people’s attitude towards immigration or whatever. And then they call themselves traditionalists or “neo-reactionaries”! What a joke. These LARPers…

  19. Pingback: Don’t refer to God as the Father, call him a “Best Friend”. | Reaction Times

  20. Oleaginous Outrager says:

    Good, bad or gone, all the dads presented are mere ciphers, whose only value is “Did he make me feel good?”. Even the “good” dads aren’t seen as human beings, but as walking candy-and-hug factories. “Disappoint” apparently is a knife to the heart of a child, so imagine what a soul-crusher “discipline” might be! None of that, my pony rides and cookies!

    Also love using the “inner city” and “the projects” as an example of the state of fathers today, because, of course, the crumble-prone ghetto family structure is the one being viewed as the default, and anything else is a strange and disturbing rarity.

    Another interesting thing to note: on the front page under “Articles About Honoring Dads”, eight of the ten articles are about honoring “parents” rather than “dads”. They’re not even pretending to care.

  21. Per Desteen says:

    My Father was harsh. He was more gentle with me than his father had been with him.

    I appreciate him to this day, enough that I’ve moved him and my mom to live quite near us. I know enough now to appreciate his lessons, and I strive to teach my sons the same lessons, albeit in a different fashion. He could not articulate an overall goal to me, which was the crux of the problem I had to work out with him. I have taken that knowledge and apply that to my sons’ education.

    Fathers must be harsh. The world is far more dangerous now than ever, and failure to prepare offspring is a personal failure in the goal that matters most: Transmission of your genes, culture, and property.

    These lessons must be tempered. Pride, joy, and reward when earned, and shame, disapproval, and discipline when earned. Everything scales in significance and purpose, and every teachable moment has to be seized.

    Finally, keep in mind that while it’s said: “you can be anything you want to be,” the majority of people have no idea what they want. One of your primary jobs as a father is to show them the possibilities, actively steer them to what works for them, and prune out the unrealistic and non-possible wants. There’s nothing wrong in following in your footsteps, nor is there anything wrong in training them for a path you’ve never experienced. I myself thought this was trite nothingness until I had children; then I realized how they were different people from day one, and that I would be the shaper of their clay rather than changing them to a rock or tree arbitrarily, or letting them sit there as a wet lump to “decide that they wanted.”

    I’m thankful for my Fathers, heavenly and earthly.

  22. P0etentiate says:

    How the heck is Manbooooobz getting listed in second place when searching for “Dalrock” on Google?

  23. Heidi_storage says:

    My wonderful father died when I was nine. I missed him very much. It gave me comfort to know that God, my Heavenly Father, would always be there.

  24. Boxer says:

    How the heck is Manbooooobz getting listed in second place when searching for “Dalrock” on Google?

    Google is going poz, though it’s not as bad as twitter… Not just the search engine, but youtube and blogger too.

    Such social engineering is likely imagined as “adding balance” or “fighting hate” or something. Never mind that this is likely the most civil blog I’ve ever been on.

    http://www.duckduckgo.com/ is usually better than google anyhow.

  25. elspeth says:

    @ Heidi:

    My wonderful father died when I was nine. I missed him very much. It gave me comfort to know that God, my Heavenly Father, would always be there.

    Blessings to you.

    I totally understand the motive behind the push back here against sappy Father’s Day celebration that mimic Mother’s Day or bait and switch Father “honoring” campaigns that are anything but.

    My dad wasn’t much into sappy stuff at all. He was a “discipline and principles” kind of father. Since he raised me alone throughout my formative years, I developed a “not so sappy” way about these things also. But I’d give anything to be able to get all corny and sappy for him this Sunday.

    And yes, our Heavenly Father (Who also doesn’t seem all that sappy in the Scriptures) is always here for us.

  26. cnystrom62 says:

    @ infowarrior1 – “There must be good reason why God refer to himself as “He””

    For Christians the archtype for male and female is Christ and the church with men playing the role of Christ and women playing the role of the church for the furtherance of the gospel and the glory of God. Since men always play the Christ or God role (leadership) and women always play the church or human role (submissive role), then it would not make sense for God to be referred to as anything but “he”. He always leads. We men do our best to live up to his example of masculinity.

  27. A little off topic but I thought dalrock would want to see this:
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithonthecouch/2017/06/husband-right-sex/

  28. Gunner Q says:

    @natewinchester, from linked article:
    “Because if love, respect, and cherishing are absent, sex stops being sex and becomes mere lust and using. Marriage is no place for lust and use.”

    Once again raising the question, are these Churchians total hypocrites or sexless chumps? The article itself is practically a bingo card of feminist principles.

    Per the guy’s bio, his wife is his business partner in Church affairs. That’s a head-spinner of a red flag.

  29. Tarl says:

    “For some, the visualization of “father” is an always-smiling, ready-to-embrace-you, tender man who instantly promotes feelings of joy and acceptance.”

    No dude, that’s your MOM not your dad!

  30. RICanuck says:

    @natewinchester,

    I replied to that patheos posting with the following:
    “A husband has a right to sex in marriage. He does not have a right to force his unwilling wife.

    In the beginning God created man and woman, and told them to be of one flesh. Before original sin, God saw that it was good. After original sin the one flesh unity of husband and wife became subject to misuse and corruption.

    After orgasm from a sex act intended as loving, a man’s brain gets infused with oxytocin, the bonding chemical. Women get infused with oxytocin from nursing, talking with their girlfriends, and sex. Without sex with the woman the man has committed to, a husband feels used and taken for granted. As per the above article the marriage becomes mere lust and using.

    At Mass we the faithful Catholics receive Jesus, Body and Blood, Body and Soul, God and Man, under the appearance of bread and wine, in an act of physical intimacy. If a husband and wife have the one flesh unity that God said was good, then both are intimate together with Jesus.

    If the one flesh unity is broken, then there is a terrible temptation to think, ‘Jesus is f*cking my wife’! It can seem to be a spiritual cuck porn. I am not the only Catholic husband who has committed this grievous sin.

    What should a Christian man do when deprived of sex? As per the instructions of Jesus, ‘forgive 70 times 7’. Forgiveness does not mean that a husband believes his wife does not sin, it does not mean that he is Ok with her sins. It should give him a sense of peace and the knowledge that God is with him, even though he is bound in a Sacrament with and sinful and unfaithful wife. Also the words of the Our Father condemn us to be forgiven as we forgive.

    A wife will die, and stand before the Throne of Judgement face to face with Jesus, her Saviour and Judge. Nothing impure or unclean shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven, and the effects of her forgiven sins will be burned away as if by fire in Purgatory. A forgiving husband can love his wife as Christ loves the Church, and help pave her way to Heaven.

    Dr. Popcak, you have refused to call sin, sin. I suspect that at the time of death we still retain a degree of free will. Most Western Catholic women have never been judged. At the time of death, some will be so surprised to be judged, that they will refuse to be judged. This will bring Hellfire for eternity.

    If your article convinces a sinful, unfaithful, refusing wife that she cannot be judged, and she carries this to death, right to the face of Jesus, then you will bear at least part of this sin.”

  31. RICanuck says:

    Let’s see if my comment to Dr. Popcak makes it through moderation, and if I get banned. I’ve already been banned by Catholic Answers Forum.

  32. Last sentence: “abuse of some kind”.

  33. Scott says:

    I never truly understood how God relates to us until I had my own children.

  34. Spike says:

    This is Step 2 of the implementation of the Cult Of The Goddess as a replacement for Christ in the Church.
    Step 1 was the acceptance by the majority of evangelical churches of the horrible heresy, the New International Version 2011 Bible. This is the one where Christ commissions His disciples to become “fishers of persons”, in case some feminist reading the Word of God in church gets triggered.
    Step 2 is the removal of the concept of God as Father. As anthropologist Daniel Amneus put it, the concept of fatherhood is more than just biological in human beings. Biology, he said, is given to children from their mothers. The biological function of the human male finishes at fertilization. But fatherhood prepares children as they grow to live in a civilization. This is why marriage, fatherhood and family became intimately associated with Western monotheism (loosely termed ”Judeo-Christianity” – a term I dislike for its inaccuracy). Uncouple fatherhood from the family and you uncouple civilization as well as God. We see this expressed as increases of social dysfunction at the peripheries of society, a dysfunction that has increased as fatherhood is wound back. Secularists / cultural Marxists thought that they could continue a civilization while uncoupling God and fatherhood from it, for the purpose of economic activity. This has resulted in colossal failure.

    Step 3 is to replace God – the God of the Bible who is the God of order and civilization – with something else entirely. He won’t be Father. He will be ”best friend” – a decline in intimacy and a departure from Biblical acceptance by Him of us.
    Then he will have male AND FEMALE attributes.
    Then he will be female.
    Then he will have a goat’s head….because there is nothing new under the Sun, and this has been tried before.

  35. BillyS says:

    According to google, there are 63 verses in the bible that reference God in a patriarchal tone.

    What Google search was used for that? I never thought of it as a Bible search tool in that manner. Exactly how did you decide a verse was referring to the patriarchy?

  36. PokeSalad says:

    I never truly understood how God relates to us until I had my own children.

    QFT

  37. Hazelshade says:

    “massive, outstretched hand that seemed to pull a never-ending supply of candy out of his trouser pockets.”

    Yuck!!

  38. horatius67 says:

    @RICanuck Yes, that is pretty universal. I’ve been banned from Lifesite, twice, for similar outrages.

  39. Jack Russell says:

    P0etentiate says:
    June 12, 2017 at 1:59 pm

    How the heck is Manbooooobz getting listed in second place when searching for “Dalrock” on Google?

    Boxer beat me to it. DuckDuckGo and Startpage are great search engines. They don’t spy on you like Gooogle ,Yahoo, Bing, etc. do. I never understood why people use Google this, Google search. Google is not a verb and I rarely use it.

    Paul McCartney even sung about a Heavenly Father in Motor Of Love from his 1989 album Flowers in the Dirt.

  40. Christopher says:

    Dalrock, do you believe that the church will have a 3rd great awakened? I realize now that without confession, and turning back to Him this will not occur.

  41. mmaier2112 says:

    I’m tempted to go to services at a local church Sunday, just so I can see what it takes to be asked to leave.

  42. Gunner Q says:

    Christopher @ 3:54 pm:
    “Dalrock, do you believe that the church will have a 3rd great awakened? I realize now that without confession, and turning back to Him this will not occur.”

    Of course the situation won’t continue forever. You must realize, however, that the situation is not our fault (we who realize and oppose what’s going on).If it was up to us and our actions, patriarchy would already be back. So, it isn’t up to us. So, relax.

    It’s a mistake to think there was ever a Golden Age of Christianity. If it wasn’t feminism then it’d be Black Death or starvation or poverty or Emperor Nero burning us alive on sticks to light his gardens.

  43. info says:

    @Gunner Q
    What’s frustrating is the amount of squid ink in this day and age. The fact that right and wrong is inverted even in the so called ”church”

  44. Cath says:

    How does “in the name of the best friend” go in Latin?

  45. Pingback: Man up and honor your father. | Dalrock

  46. Christopher says:

    Thank you Gunner for your answer, and I agree.

  47. Daniel says:

    John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

    You want to be friends with God? Obey his commandments. We live in such an antinomian age.
    Very few want to submit to Christ as Lord, or study his Word to see what he commands. They’ve already decided that He loves them unconditionally and wants them to be “happy” and so they rationalize anything.

    I apply this verse to my relationship with my family. “Son, we can be friends, if you obey me. If you disobey me, then you will be chastened and it may not seem that I’m your friend. Wife, we can be friends when you are submitting to me. Otherwise, you will be admonished and you won’t like it.”

  48. Boxer says:

    I apply this verse to my relationship with my family. “Son, we can be friends, if you obey me. If you disobey me, then you will be chastened and it may not seem that I’m your friend. Wife, we can be friends when you are submitting to me. Otherwise, you will be admonished and you won’t like it.”

    We need friends: people to help us move house, people to shoot pool with, people to ride dirtbikes with, etc.
    We also need fathers: people who have standards, people who will criticize our conduct, people who will make us our best selves.

    Friends are not fathers. If I were to adopt a god, I wouldn’t want him to be my friend. I’d want him to be my father.

  49. Tomasz G. says:

    @RICanuck – I wouldn’t hold my breath for dr Greg Pop-Cuck to publish your comment.

    I must say that the Red Pill and Dalrock in particular caused me to rethink many things in my Catholic faith. It hurts to learn, eg. that Augustine and Jerome were a couple of sexually repressed pervs.

    What can we do? Not much, but resisting shame and propaganda goes a long way. Whatever you allow, they will do to you.

    I don’t have a full solution, but it definitely must include some form of ZFG. First of all, these matters are private, and should not be discussed with third parties (priests, “parochial marriage counselors” etc.). Just refuse to ever take part in such a game. “These are private matters.” You don’t have to be rude, but I guess you may – “Have you ever had an orgasm, Father?” In case of the secular “experts on marriage” its a bit different – but for the most part, seeing their wives would cure boys of masturbation way faster than all the scary tales of damnation…

    So, excluding 3rd parties, the only person left to bring up “lustful sex” in marriage is your “better half”. Don’t worry – it’s a shit test. “Don’t you think we’re doing it too often?” “No, I didn’t like that. It seemed so animalistic.” – blah, blah, blah. Just ignore it, or confidently disagree.

    She needs to love your kids (and of course, have no other kids). If she doesn’t love your and her kids, then you’ve made a mistake. She’s not a human, and should be disposed like a pest. In that case, she’s below a reptile. But it’s not the normal case. You need to telegraph it to her subconsciousness – you’re not rolling over “for the kids”.

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