When seconds counted, the police were only three hours away.

This is off topic, but there is an aspect of the news reports regarding the terror attack on the gay nightclub in Florida which doesn’t add up.  According to the available reports:

  1. The terrorist called 911 and pledged allegiance to ISIS just before he began the attack.
  2. At 2:02 AM the terrorist engaged in a firefight with an off duty police officer providing security for the club.  Two more officers quickly showed up and joined the firefight.
  3. The terrorist (re?)entered the club and started shooting.  At first the patrons of the club didn’t understand what was happening;  they thought the gunfire was part of the music.
  4. Three hours later at or around 5:00 AM, the police breached the building and killed the terrorist.

Some time between when the shooting started at 2:02 AM and when the police finally entered the building around 5:00 AM, the terrorist shot 103 people (50 killed, 53 wounded).  The news reports are calling this a hostage standoff, but the reports from people inside are that the shooting started right away. Based on the available reports, it appears that the police left an unknown number of shooting victims to bleed out for three hours before entering the building.  Beyond that, one of two scenarios must have occurred:

  • The police allowed the shooter to continue to shoot the club patrons unchallenged for three hours.
    or
  • There was a three hour pause in the shooting.

The first scenario is unimaginable. Given the fact that many people were calling for help on their cell phones, it would mean that the main function of the police was to prevent anyone from going in to protect the patrons while the terrorist shot 103 people.

But the second scenario doesn’t look much better.  Given the fact that 103 people where shot, this would mean that the police either

  1. Allowed dozens of wounded patrons to bleed out for three hours.
    or
  2. Were so slow in moving in once the shooting resumed (after three hours of preparation) that the shooter was able to shoot dozens of people before the police breached the building.

It is possible that the information we have is still incorrect, but so far it looks to me that whoever was in charge failed in a major way.  My guess is that he or she became fixated on the idea that this was just another hostage scenario, and ignored all evidence that this was a terror attack for a full three hours.  What baffles me however is that I don’t see anyone in the press or a blogger linked from Drudge or Instapundit raising these questions.  Something doesn’t make sense here, and I strongly suspect we are going to learn in the coming days that the police response was terribly botched.

Update:  I now see that the LA Times is raising this same question.  According to the Times, the local PD is referring the question to the FBI, who is referring the question back to the local PD.

Update 2:  Another news piece is referencing this: ORLANDO MASS SHOOTING: Police veered from modern engagement tactic, expert says

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133 Responses to When seconds counted, the police were only three hours away.

  1. rugby11 says:

    Dalrock this may be of interest.
    http://killology.com/book_oncombat_summary.htm

  2. Dvdivx says:

    The problem isn’t the police it’s bringing in millions (yes that many) muslims into the US who throw gays off buildings and rape children for fun. It’s a poisonous religion that’s at fault and it will just get worse.

  3. John says:

    Take a look at some of the pictures of the nightclub. There are numerous bullet holes sprayed around the breaching holes the SWAT team made at 5am when they decided to engage the terrorist. One report said that the terrorist was not killed until 6am, an hour after the initial engagement. It appears that even once the police decided to act, they all remained outside of the building, hundreds of yards away behind concealment or cover, and attempted to shoot through the holes in the wall made by the robots.

  4. It is possible that the information we have is still incorrect, but so far it looks to me that whoever was in charge failed in a major way. My guess is that he or she became fixated on the idea that this was just another hostage scenario, and ignored all evidence that this was a terror attack for a full three hours.

    Me and my father in law were talking about this very subject all afternoon. It doesn’t make any sense.

  5. Pingback: When seconds counted, the police were only three hours away. – Manosphere.org

  6. Anon says:

    Until we see gays saying that Muslims are a bigger threat than ‘Christians’ or ‘the NRA’, count me among the ‘let the chips fall where they may’ crowd.

    The terrorist was a registered Democrat. Most of his victims were too. Republicans are cuckservatives anyway, who mainly oppose Islam for whiteknighting reasons, and are baffled that women are drawn to Islam.

    Some innocents died. Will other gays honor their memory, or will they stick to the false narrative? More of the outrage tonight seems to be towards Trump rather than the terrorist.

  7. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    I assume (I don’t claim to know) that it appeared to be a hostage standoff. Police waited outside because they thought that would save more lives than going in right away. And that only in retrospect does it now appear that going in immediately might have been the better plan.

  8. boxty says:

    Heard a radio interview with a law enforcement expert that said there were reports that the killer had an explosive vest or other device that delayed the response as you can imagine. He said it also takes time to get a SWAT team organized.

  9. Pingback: Quick Thoughts on the new Shooting | Malcolm the Cynic

  10. yevaud says:

    @Anon. Gay here (don’t comment much but I do read this blog fairly often): many of us do see Islam as a greater threat than Christianity. Though I’m not Christian, I personally have no problem with Christianity, it’s a reasonably good moral code. Islam — well — I tried to read the Koran once, and it seemed very angry to me, much more so than the Old Testament gets credit for being.

  11. feeriker says:

    there is an aspect of the news reports regarding the terror attack on the gay nightclub in Florida which doesn’t add up.

    There are many aspects of this obvious false-flag operation that clearly don’t add up.

    They’re getting sloppier and more careless with each succeeding one of these that they pull (San Bernardino was quite spectacularly inept in its execution). Either they’re delusional enough to think people aren’t noticing, or they’re too arrogant to care.

  12. Avraham rosenblum says:

    I spent a good deal of time with Muslims. Also study of some of their books and history. My impression is kind of negative. Though I do not like to dismiss anything off hand without giving it a chance still I think I gave them a chance to show it is a loving peaceful religion. My basic opinion is is that it is not peaceful and out to be outlawed. John Locke in the two Treaties said the same thing. Tolerance for religious differences can go only so far. I found Muslims when a small minority to be exemplary citizens. But after they gain a foothold, then the real nature of Islam comes out.

  13. Hoyt says:

    This is very interesting; that the police did not storm the building immediately. IIRC a a similar thing happened at Columbine. The SWAT teams did not enter the building immediately to shoot Klebold and Harris.

  14. mmaier2112 says:

    Interesting points here about how much ammo this guy must have carried on him:

    http://www.dangerandplay.com/2016/06/12/there-was-more-than-one-shooter-at-pulse-in-orlando/

  15. They’re getting sloppier and more careless with each succeeding one of these that they pull (San Bernardino was quite spectacularly inept in its execution). Either they’re delusional enough to think people aren’t noticing, or they’re too arrogant to care.

    This is why Trump is going to win the election. I mean seriously, HRC couldn’t even use the term Islamic Extremism. More and more, the silent majority is telling the minority that it doesn’t care how many insults are used, it doesn’t care what the minority thinks of the majority, and it is telling the “elites” that the silent majority isn’t interested in what they have to say.

    I mean seriously, who wants to be a cop nowadays? When (for increasingly both political parties) being politically correct is MORE important than being correct in our ever steadily approaching new dark age, is it any wonder why our law enforcement agencies are so incompetent in keeping us all alive? I mean if you are Joe-beat-cop and your primary concern is not offending anyone and being ever so sure to do precisely the right thing at all times (as black lives matter more than your own life) and you know the slightest mistake, you just lost your tenure, seniority, pension, AND your freedom, then you aren’t going to be so inclined to go all Dirty Harry to keep the public alive, a public that increasingly resents you, hates your guts.

  16. Anon says:

    See?

    Let the various lefty client groups fight among themselves. The worst thing we can do is get in the way and delay this natural sorting-out….

  17. What Dalrock is addressing is the one of the chief problems with police today–OFFICER SAFETY uber alles!! This always seems to happen in a mass shooting. 1) the event goes down. 2) The police show up. 3) The police cordon off the area while people are dying inside. 4) The police wait for backup. 5) By the time the police go in the guy has shot himself. Hey, at least they get to go home at night!

    It’s exactly as Hoyt above says.

    After all of these incidents, we need to realize that this is the police MO. It’s their SOP. So like a hijacking on an aircraft, don’t follow the govt script, Freaking mob attack the assailant(s). In like manner, if involved in an active shooter scenario, don’t follow the govt script. The calvary will arrive, but by then it’s too late.

    The bottom line is the police will not do anything until they are 100% sure it is absolutely safe to go in. In the meantime, folks are dying left and right.

  18. Ron says:

    Alternatively, the police heard it was a gay nightclub getting shot up by a Muslim and decided to take their time.

  19. Blak says:

    Hey Dalrock, thanks for your observations.
    The truth is, these events are psy ops. Live drills, dressed up as real. They are fake, and nobody dies. They are used to push the government’s agendas e.g the continued disarming of the American public, and the attack on man.

    Of course this guy had to be an abusive husband as well. They are pushing the idea that a husband can snap at any moment and be a wife abuser.
    I bet you this woman is an actor.

    http://www.smh.com.au/video/video-news/video-world-news/orlando-shooting-exwife-of-gunman-speaks-20160613-4gf6z.html

  20. Opus says:

    It was, I believe, Voltaire who opined that ‘what does it matter to me what happen on the shores of…’. At any event last night Facebook’s newsfeed failed to my great surprise (where I am) to be reporting what I am sure this morning will dominate the front pages of all the newspapers.

    I once visited a Gay club (with my girlfriend of the time) in D.C. and it was the only time a woman (not my accompanying girlfriend) has asked me to dance. I enjoyed my evening in Tracks. I mention this as in one of life’s strange coincidences, I, on Saturday night, taped a brand new opera – set in a gay night club. Oddly it put me in mind of Trovatore – the story I mean. The plot concerned a young man – straight – who had been placed in a foster home when his mother ended her relationship with his violent father (the son having been conceived him when the Father raped her – even though they were living together – and then had been violent towards the son). The foster home where the young man was then sent had also been violent and then as a teenager he had had girlfriends whom he had treated badly. Now, seeking love he had come to the club but he (or it may have been the other lead Tenor) dies of an overdose in the filthy toilets – toilets supposedly being cleaned by his Mother (they did not know they were related – that’s the Trovatore link – so the Mother is the true victim). Naturally, the men were white.

    This misandrist and sponsored nonsense set to music by a man came from the pen of a female dramatist. Not so much Blue Pill as clueless, I was going to complain to the BBC (who had broadcast this) but in the circumstances now feel it would perhaps be tasteless to do so. There is already another recent English opera set in the twin Towers on 11th September 2001 (I can only think of one other opera where every member of the cast dies) so perhaps we can expect something similar ere long.

    Sorry (for what it is worth) about your tragedy.

  21. Pingback: When seconds counted, the police were only three hours away. | Reaction Times

  22. Samuel Nock says:

    Cernovich doing Pulizer level material on this. Even if he is wrong, he is asking questions that no other journalist is.

    http://www.dangerandplay.com/2016/06/12/there-was-more-than-one-shooter-at-pulse-in-orlando/

  23. greyghost says:

    If the guy had three hours in a night club the 103 people killed or wounded is possible. The amount of ammunition had to be huge. 9 30 round magazines 270 rounds. Things will be real fluid at the beginning with people running and hiding. Things will likely go static with exhausted people hiding and sitting still trying to not draw attention to themselves. How much ammunition did he go thru to get to that point?
    Orlando has got to be a newer constructed city not like the old East coast cities with the buildings with the large rooms at the top of one stair way with a single door. the exits may have been blocked. A lot for one man to get done for a one off event.

  24. Spike says:

    The story of the Orlando shooting will add to the grim chapter of the greater than 12 000 violent episodes perpetrated in the name of Islam since 9-11. This includes the Paris attacks as well as 472 deaths in this Ramadan period so far.

    https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    One has to ask the elites, who have fostered feminism,thus reducing the replacement birth rate in Western countries, only to allow progressively poorer, aggressive and non-integrative people into western countries to replace them, this:

    What, do they see as the happy outcome of mass Muslim migration?
    What did the current government see as the result of tacitly supporting ISIS in Syria and Iraq?

    Did they seriously think that Muslims would water down their ideology and happily swallow consumerism? Perhaps their women would don Western clothes instead of burquas, thus propping up the retail sector? That their men would enter a Western country from a war zone and be work-ready, willing to replace their ideology with consumerism?

    This shooter was actually employed as a security guard and had weapons training. Another Muslim woman in Russia worked as a nanny before decapitating the child she cared for:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3474467/Nanny-decapitated-three-year-old-child-paraded-head-streets-says-did-avenge-Muslims-killed-Putin-s-air-strikes-Syria.html

    One must ask whether ANYONE belonging to this ideology ( I use this term purposefully: It is not a faith) is employable and trustworthy.
    It is time to call a halt to Muslim migration, a time long overdue.

  25. Looking Glass says:

    From a purely tactical point of view, striking at 2 am on a Saturday is pretty well planned. SWAT would have been extremely slow to respond because, well, I doubt they expect to need them at 3 am most weekends. So it’s a pretty easy target (granted, most gatherings in the country as soft-targets), expected slow responses and drunk & drugged make fairly easy targets.

    The causality count either seems low or high, depending on how you want to look at it. I get the feeling we’re going to see about 1/2 of the deaths be attributed to trampling/contact injuries. Mike Cernovich is definitely on the right track that something seems off. Unless there’s a bomb that went off, other actors or some extraneous factor. (Like a Game of Thrones inspired display of swords & spears that people got knocked into.)

    I’m reminded of a Night club fire a few years ago that killed 100 (320 total causalities) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Station_nightclub_fire ). Which is why I can see the total causality count as going both ways. A lot of details still to come out.

  26. honeycomb says:

    Part I ..
    We need more gun free zones .. that’s what we need. That’s the elites message. The police will protect you. Even though they are legally obligated to do so.

    Part II ..
    Let’em stew and fester in their hate .. of GOD .. judgement of their rebellion has begun. Evil killing Evil .. I’m good with that.

  27. honeycomb says:

    Edit ..

    Legally NOT obligated to do so.

  28. honeycomb says:

    Any interview transmission was cut off mid-interview, after the event by a survior, that mentioned someone was blocking the exit .. thusly trapping / preventing people inside from evacuating the building.

    I don’t have the link handy.

  29. Novaseeker says:

    The thing about this tragedy is that it hits so many hot buttons, socially and politically, that it’s an incendiary event.

    Gays, guns, Muslims, police bumbling. All huge issues today, and this situation has *all* of them tied up together. It’s a field day for people on any side of any of these issues and I expect it will be used as a football extensively in the weeks and months ahead. Probably too far ahead of November to make that much of a difference for that however.

    I agree that the casualty numbers seem extremely high for a single shooter with a semi-automatic rifle and handgun. Doubtful the guy was such an expert marksman in a chaotic situation. Perhaps there were trampling deaths as well, that’s possible, but if most of the deaths were from bullets, it doesn’t make that much sense with one shooter with those weapons, really. The reporting has been trash, as usual, because most journalists don’t understand much about guns, and just love throwing around the term “assault rifle” (which virtually the entirety of the gun-ignorant public think means “machine gun”) without being actually knowledgeable enough about guns, how they work, how much ammunition a magazine holds and so on, to even write intelligently about what is alleged to have happened here, never mind critically.

  30. Panzer101 says:

    Break out your tinfoil hats, people. Here come the 9/11 truthers/”false flag”/Moon-landings-were-faked crowd.

    All of you who think that the government is capable of pulling off massive conspiracies have clearly never worked for the government. It is a slow, cumbersome, overly bureaucratic, incompetent institution (at all levels).

    Occam’s Razor. What is the simplest solution to Dalrock’s question? The government, in all of its forms, sucks. I am personally amazed they only took three hours, that must be a record for cop mobilization.

    I recently read this and can’t find the originator of the quote:

    “The police are just a janitorial service used to clean up your blood after you’ve been murdered.”

  31. Looking Glass says:

    @Panzer101:

    While it’s tempting to think that, realize that governments are always very good at a few things. The primary ones are covering up their mistakes & placing the blame elsewhere.

    I call it the “Jack Ruby” effect. It’s pretty clear Oswald killed JFK and mostly on his own. But Ruby killing Oswald has all of the hallmarks of using every shady contact to eliminate an issue, though, the reality of the matter is that there were so many groups that would want Oswald dead (seeing as he could set of a WW3 depending on who he started fingering) that there’s no easy way to sort out who really made sure he was. Which, sadly, is the way a lot of those in power prefer many things actually go.

    @Novaseeker:

    Yeah, this is one of those fascinating interactions, as you have the confluence of so many interest groups that normally band together to attack the actual innocent. But a lot of people are dead for the malfeasance of quite a few people. And they won’t see judgement in this life for it, either.

  32. Bruce says:

    I’m not a gun expert but here’s some thoughts on whether or not he could have enough ammo to pull this off.
    The 5.56×45 was adopted so the troops could carry more ammo than they could with the 7.62×51. The cartridges weigh about 12 grams each so 300 rounds would weigh less than 8 pounds. Don’t know how much volume would be taken up by 300 rounds in a pack.
    100 round drum magazines are cheap and widely available. It seems to me that he could have easily carried three or four drum magazines.

  33. PokeSalad says:

    I am always mordantly amused when I see the comment, ” Is this enough? Will the suicidal lefties finally realize what’s going on?”

    The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was allowed to scorch people with fire. 9 They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.

    10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony 11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

    Answer is….they will never. They will obediently let the jihadist slit their throat and destroy our civilization, the last words on their lips being…..”at least I wasn’t a bigot.”

  34. PokeSalad says:

    WRT ammo, 9 30-rd magazines is nothing. I’ve carried 9 on vest and a fagbag with 10 more, not a serious issue (if you aren’t having to carry much of anything else but a rifle). A loaded 30-round mag (which only has 28 rds in it) weighs about a pound. If you were on a suicide mission and only carried ammo, you could probably carry in excess of 500 rounds if you really wanted to.

    I don’t think most of these ‘commentators’ have ever held or used a 30-round magazine in their lives. Maybe it just “looks” heavy. The lighter weight is one of the main reasons we dropped the 7.62×51 round in the M14.

  35. All of you who think that the government is capable of pulling off massive conspiracies have clearly never worked for the government. It is a slow, cumbersome, overly bureaucratic, incompetent institution (at all levels).

    Looks like someone has zero familiarity with the intelligence agencies, compartmentalization/need to know – nor organized crime, such as the mafia or the Mexican and Colombian drug cartels.

    People who love television have a really hard time accepting the fact that not everything reported in the media is true.

  36. Linx says:

    @Panzer101
    “Break out your tinfoil hats, people. Here come the 9/11 truthers/”false flag”/Moon-landings-were-faked crowd.”
    Logical fallacy – Poisoning the well

    “All of you who think that the government is capable of pulling off massive conspiracies have clearly never worked for the government. It is a slow, cumbersome, overly bureaucratic, incompetent institution (at all levels).”
    Logical fallacy – no true Scotsman

    “Occam’s Razor. What is the simplest solution to Dalrock’s question? The government, in all of its forms, sucks. I am personally amazed they only took three hours, that must be a record for cop mobilization.”
    If you hear hoof beats, don’t automatically think of zebras.

  37. TLM says:

    Maybe the question that needs to be asked is why would a cop (most likely a white male heterosexual), that makes around 50k a year, rush into a blood borne pathogen nightmare. The knee jerk reaction will be I’m insensitive, blah blah blah. In this scenario they may have been overly cautious and avoiding CQB from the very real added risk of picking up a very nasty, or fatal illness. The news stated that blood was everywhere. Hospital PR flacks and others will tell the public that their use of Universal Precautions is standard & sufficient for patients regardless of illness, that’s BS. The staff always treat those with AID/HIV much more cautiously than others. And why wouldn’t any rational person. Despite the propaganda we’ve been feed, gay men are walking disease vectors.

  38. Coloradomtnman says:

    @pokesalad On average how many 5.56×45 rounds would it take to kill 10 people? I suggest that a ^ operator would require 5 to 1 in a dimly lit room with people scurrying around; perhaps 10×1 discharged rounds depending on proficiency. Regardless, they are big numbers.

    And, where were the bouncers? The story stinks to high heaven as do all of the false flag events.

  39. “But the second scenario doesn’t look much better. Given the fact that 103 people where shot, this would mean that the police either

    Allowed dozens of wounded patrons to bleed out for three hours.
    or
    Were so slow in moving in once the shooting resumed (after three hours of preparation) that the shooter was able to shoot dozens of people before the police breached the building.”

    As a part of Law Enforcement doctrine, the safety of the officers come first and people need to get this through their heads. Just like the title of the OP implies, you have a responsibility to protect yourself.

  40. honeycomb says:

    “The Police” (ALL POLICE) carry a weapon for their protection .. not yours.

    Per the Supreme Court .. “The Police” are not legally required to protect you or take any action that they deem unsafe to their life or limb. Do they .. sure .. but not legally required to.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html

    https://fee.org/articles/just-dial-911-the-myth-of-police-protection/

    Buy a firearm .. get trained .. always carry .. and never patron a facility that promotes a “Gun Free Zone” (aka a bad guy safe work environment).

  41. Chris says:

    “Until we see gays saying that Muslims are a bigger threat than ‘Christians’ or ‘the NRA’, count me among the ‘let the chips fall where they may’ crowd.”

    Muslims are, by and large, represented by people who aren’t White cisgendered males, so it doesn’t really “count” in their eyes. What was the response from the collective Left when Cytherea was raped in her home? To quote Mercedes Carrera in one of her videos on the issue, “Radio [expletive] silence.”

  42. Bruce says:

    “On average how many 5.56×45 rounds would it take to kill 10 people?”

    I guess it depends on the type of bullet. The NATO FMJs might require multiple but the heavier soft points that are commercially available are supposed to be pretty lethal. And there was plenty of time for the victims to bleed out.

  43. Gunner Q says:

    TLM @ 9:33 am:
    “Maybe the question that needs to be asked is why would a cop (most likely a white male heterosexual), that makes around 50k a year, rush into a blood borne pathogen nightmare.”

    My thought too. Risk my life protecting the innocent? Okay. Rush into about the only situation in which I could get AIDS just by inhaling, immediately after the Feds endorsed the wholesale sexual violation of my schoolkids? Let me finish my coffee, lieutenant.

  44. Bruce says:

    Just curious – have they verified the caliber? Some reports I’ve seen say it was an “AR-15 type” rifle.

  45. Crank says:

    This all assumes they knew how many they were up against and what the threat was to first responders.

    Which gets to the next point. I have a hard time believing that one guy, even if he has a suicide vest, can get off that many rounds without people getting away (or him being subdued, if need be). Aside from police first, there must have been at least a couple hundred rounds fired. I’m not suggesting there is some sort of conspiracy. But, if there were more shooters, then the cops are still figuring that out or they are keeping mum to avoid a panic while they search for them.

  46. Crank says:

    Never mind. I guess my point was already addressed above. Should have read first.

  47. yamanous says:

    Its another aspect if red pill that ppl refuse to see. Nobody stops to ask, “where is the blood?” Especially with 50 dead in ONE club. Until I see the blood, it didn’t happen. It’s another San Bernadino/Sandy Hook with 1 purpose — gun confiscation.

  48. Anon says:

    It is time to call a halt to Muslim migration, a time long overdue.

    Halt? They have been deliberately increasing it.

    1) Women are the majority of voters.
    2) Female psychology contains little outside of gina tingles, hypergamy, etc.
    3) Women get gina tingles from Islam.

    When most voters are women, a dramatic increase in the most violent types of immigrants is a certainty. Women write love letters to serial killers, you know. This is the same psychology.

  49. yamanous says:

    Well said, Blak.

  50. boohoo says:

    People are slowly waking up to the idea and understanding that the police are not LEGALLY required to do the job that they are claiming they are required to do. Its only a matter of time before the public, no longer believes ANYTHING stated by a Law Enforcement officials, or agents. Here are some other items to ALWAYS keep in mind:

    Law Enforcement (LEO’s) and the Department of Justice (DOJ) have created a untenable position for themselves and they are not trusted by increasingly large portions of the general public. Perhaps not a majority, YET, but still, large numbers concentrated heavily among those under 40 years of age, whom do not trust LEO’s or the DOJ. Also, even, IF, this under 40 crowd does not believe that LEO’s are dangerously lethal to civilians (which they do seem to believe), this under 40 cohort, ABSOLUTELY believes that LEO’s are, primarily, “revenue collectors”. People are finally starting to realize that the police are not there to assist or save people in danger.

    Police brutality and the DOJ’s dereliction of the US Constitution clearly shows that LEO’s are learning to deal with the LONG TERM consequence of these actions, with force against the general public, which they, as a group, have taken, while in the field. These actions have been compounding all the issues surrounding their increasingly negative public image over the last 25 years.

    Contemporary LEOs have proven, through their actions, that they are in place to do the following and NOTHING MORE:

    1. Protect themselves.

    2. Maximize their total compensation.

    3. Act as a source of revenue generation for the department currently employing them, the union they belong to and the local governments authorizing their activities.

    4. Protecting the commercial interests of national corporations (with PAC’s lobbying on the behalf of the big corporations)

    5. Protecting the private property and political interests of large, influential, land & business owners, residing within their jurisdiction; that also contribute to and participate in local politics (i.e. campaign donations for Police Chief, Judges and Sheriff elections).

    6. Controlling dissenting narratives that would interfere with 1-5.

    LEO’s have been totally co-opted, insulated from financial consequences and tax paying citizens are picking up the tab. That’s the sad reality of where we are today, in regards to contemporary Law Enforcement Culture. Civilians should view the police no differently than the way in which police typically view the general public, with suspicion.

    Here is an example of a sleepy county in Oregon, that is 92% white, with 56% of the population over 45 years of age, yet, these people still VOTED TO DE-FUND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT because they got sick of receiving unjust traffic tickets. Here is a link to the article: “Defunding government is a sensible voter solution to reining in local government” by Dave Duffy

    http://www.backwoodshome.com/defunding-government-is-a-sensible-voter-solution-to-reining-in-local-government/

    Think about that for a minute, if LEO’s can’t hold the trust of small communities, with these kinds of demographics, what chance do they stand anywhere else? Not much. This should be a VERY CLEAR message that LEO’s, in general, have lost the trust of the public

    Civilians should not trust the motivations of LEO’s nor the DOJ and must always assume that their lives are in danger, with EVERY interaction they have with LEO’s.

    Why?

    Not because ALL LEO’s are bad, but because ALL LEO’s are LEGALLY AUTHORIZED to kill civilians AND TAKE THEIR PROPERTY, as they see fit (and the DOJ will ALWAYS take the side of the suspected LEO murderer in court).

    Why should civilians take any risk of death or loss of property? It is far easier to simply not interact with, refuse to help and actively avoid contact with LEO’s, whom are LEGALLY AUTHORIZED to kill civilians AND TAKE THEIR PROPERTY, as they see fit. The people in this club, waited for the police to help and many died as a result. It would have been better for everyone if they assumed that the police would not come to help them.

    We have come full circle, except now, LEO’s don’t regularly “exterminate” undesirables, JUST TO TAKE THEIR PROPERTY, they simply put them in jail indefinitely, for petty offenses, so someone can make money off their existence while in the system, via a government contract.

    Law Enforcement Agencies and the DOJ, AS CURRENTLY OPERATED (see above items 1-6), can’t function when large numbers of people with good consciences serve in them. So, even if good people with consciences tried to enact grass-root change from within, they would simply be denied entry to the agency or get quickly removed from the ranks through various legal and administrative means.

    Here is an except from Bowers v. DeVito. In 1982, the Court of Appeals, Seventh Circuit held, “…there is no Constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen. It is monstrous if the state fails to protect its residents… but it does not violate… the Constitution.”

    “no duty” = “free to ignore” because if there is no financial or legal consequence to inaction, then certainly some “bad apples” will use that as a legal basis for “choosing”, when to “render services” or when not to.

    From the perspective of LEO’s, the above noted ruling means that they may “pick and choose” when they attempt to “save someone from death or injury” because the ruling does not obligate them to act. It is that perspective, which LEO’s are allowed to legally take, that should matter to the average citizen. The context from Bowers v. DeVito is very clear, the police CHOSE to not assist, despite Marguerite Anne Bowers repeatedly requesting their help and the courts then determined that the police are not liable for making the “choice” to not help her.

    Finally, as for the “Oath’s” that LEO’s typically take, lets use a few excerpts from the LAPD oath for example, which seems to be MOSTLY concerned with swearing to not overthrow the government:

    “And I do further swear (or affirm) that I do not advocate, nor am I a member of any party or organization, political or other- wise, that now advocates the overthrow of the Government of the United States or of the State of California by force or violence or other unlawful means; that within the five years immediately preceding the taking of this oath (or affirmation) I have not been a member of any party or organization, political or other-wise, that advocated the overthrow of the Government of the United States or of the State of California by force or violence or other unlawful means. I will not advocate nor become (name of office) a member of any party or organization, political or otherwise, that advocates the overthrow of the Government of the United States or of the State of California by force or violence or other unlawful means.”

    I SWEAR,, THAT – I WILL WELL AND TRULY SERVE – OUR SOVEREIGN COUNTRY AND STATE – AS A POLICE OFFICER WITHOUT FAVOR OR AFFECTION – MALICE OR ILL-WILL – UNTIL I AM LEGALLY DISCHARGED, THAT I WILL SEE AND CAUSE ­ OUR COMMUNITY’S PEACE TO BE KEPT AND PRESERVED – AND THAT – I WILL PREVENT TO THE BEST OF MY POWER – ALL OFFENSES AGAINST THAT PEACE – AND THAT – WHILE I CONTINUE TO BE A POLICE OFFICER

  51. greyghost says:

    Coloradomtnman
    i agree in a dim room in a one off event it would take a lot. The initial ambush of unaware people would be one for one. Also inside of fifty yards a 5.56 x 45 loaded with 55 grain bullets is nearly 100% go to stop or kill some one

  52. @ Chris

    “What was the response from the collective Left when Cytherea was raped in her home?”

    That damaged chick’s very next porn shoot was with a black guy just to prove she wasn’t a racist. Leftism is a mental disorder.

  53. Hurrah for this Dalrock! Since the Columbine Massacre the standard police tactic in an active shooter situation is to charge the building as soon as you get enough police presence to do it. Often this means waiting until the SWAT team arrives and often it means that 4 brave men in squad cars charge into the maelstrom in order to stop the shootings and rescue the people.

    Why they waited over 3 hours while, as you say, men bled out on the floor is completely inexplicable. What’s more, why the media reports on this are so sparse is amazing. Something is being covered up.

    Also, a Texan, do you want to bet that NONE of the men in that club were armed. There were 100’s of men in that club. If 1% had been armed the shooter would not have made it past his first clip, leaving probably fewer than 10 shot in total.

    Instead, the media is clamoring to “ban assault rifles” and disarm the population. Amazing response to a shooting that could have been stopped much sooner by an armed citizenry.

    So instead of encouraging the “Militia” envisioned by our founders, we get the prattling of news reporters wringing their hands about how easy it is to get a weapon. There were about 500 men in that club who would have liked to have a weapon that night.

  54. PokeSalad says:

    @pokesalad On average how many 5.56×45 rounds would it take to kill 10 people? I suggest that a ^ operator would require 5 to 1 in a dimly lit room with people scurrying around; perhaps 10×1 discharged rounds depending on proficiency. Regardless, they are big numbers.

    I only speak to the “he couldn’t possibly have carried that much ammo, there must have been two shooters” argument. If Cernovich is saying this, he is demonstrably wrong.

    On the “how could one man shoot 103 people in a dimly lit nightclub with moving targets in three hours?” argument, you are on much, much firmer ground.

  55. PokeSalad says:

    The initial ambush of unaware people would be one for one. Also inside of fifty yards a 5.56 x 45 loaded with 55 grain bullets is nearly 100% go to stop or kill some one

    In a crowded nightclub, full of drunk/drugged up partiers, I bet one could shoot 10-15 before a critical mass of people really understood what was going on. Several witnesses said they heard the gunshots and thought it was part of the music.

  56. Dalrock says:

    @BPP

    Also, a Texan, do you want to bet that NONE of the men in that club were armed. There were 100’s of men in that club. If 1% had been armed the shooter would not have made it past his first clip, leaving probably fewer than 10 shot in total.

    From what I have read Florida has around twice as many CCW permit holders per capita as Texas. However, like in Texas, it is illegal for a permit holder to carry in an establishment where over 50% of the revenue is from alcohol.

    At any rate, the message should be clear. If you are waiting for the cops to come save you, they could well be waiting outside for hours before they decide to come in and confront the shooter. I don’t see the ban on carry being lifted for 51% establishments, so my guess is that bars that see themselves as high on the target list will arrange for more armed security inside the establishment, along with better access to exits. The cop at the door will stop patrons from carrying and if you are lucky stop a killer from entering, but once the attacker is in you can’t expect anyone coming in to help for a long time.

  57. feeriker says:

    While it’s tempting to think that, realize that governments are always very good at a few things. The primary ones are covering up their mistakes & placing the blame elsewhere.

    BINGO.

    What governments suck at is …well, governing. Doing the bidding of the people by keeping their lives and property safe and protecting their freedom. There’s no profit in that for those who comprise the Ruling Elite. What governments are EXPERT at doing is ensuring their own survival by any means necessary, which includes expanding their own powers to the point of limitlessness. THIS is what governments spare no expense in money, resources, and effort doing and at which they’ve proven themselves peerless experts.

    As Hipster Racist points out upthread: “Looks like someone has zero familiarity with the intelligence agencies, compartmentalization/need to know – nor organized crime, such as the mafia or the Mexican and Colombian drug cartels.”

    Exactly. Having had years of direct experience with U.S. government ”intelligence” [sic] agencies, I can tell you definitively that covering their own asses and expanding the power of the government using the mask of “national security”‘ is their sole raison d’etre. The organized crime comparison is apt as well, because there is really no difference between government agencies and organized crime cartels.

    So yes, this tragedy in Orlando could very easily have been another government False Flag operation. An ineptly executed one, as I said upthread, but when you’re omnipotent, as the fedgov now believes itself to be, whom do you need to impress?

  58. Looking Glass says:

    The post-Columbine approach came about because of the psychology of the shooters. Especially in a school shooting situation, the shooter is there to commit suicide, one way or the other. This is the reason why Concealed Carry is so valuable in the active shooter situations. Once armed citizen establishes a safe, defensible position, in nearly all cases, the shooter will promptly kill themselves when met with any armed resistance.

    There was a shooter at a Mall in Portland, OR some years ago, now. The death toll was either 1 or 2 because someone had their concealed carry. They got their family into a safe area, then confronted the shooter from solid cover. Didn’t even have to fire a shot, as the Man promptly shot himself.

    The Jihadists have adapted to this, somewhat. They’re mostly there to die, but they’re in no rush to commit suicide. This is why they bring suicide vests, as it allows them to prolong the standoff, but also not risk being taken alive.

  59. greyghost says:

    Dalrock you are correct. No Concealed Carry in a bar. The gay community being small should and could set up small owner management little armories at their clubs.
    I would hate to be an armed door man at one of those bars. he is automatically out to get inside to complete an attack.
    The best hope is we all get an airline passenger mentality. Once the attack comes nothing to lose you are dead anyway and fight back with all you have.

  60. Boxer says:

    Once the attack comes nothing to lose you are dead anyway and fight back with all you have.

    That’s pretty much my thoughts on the matter.

    With respect to our host for a great article, I found this other analysis equally valuable. Warning to you religious bros, there might be some crass material and bad language. Well worth reading though…

    http://www.dangerandplay.com/2016/06/12/how-to-respond-to-mass-shootings/

    Boxer

  61. A Regular Guy says:

    Who the fuck do leftists think they are when they criticize the police for not placing the lives of civilians in a place of higher esteem than their own, a responsibility Leftists themselves have rejected outright?! They look at the lives of our military and police as a commodity resource to expended on their behalf just like all the other entitlement programs they believe are rightfully due them. This is what must be said by those who wish to break the Liberal narrative. We need a new, unapologetic, Reaganesque “Evil Empire” speech to be given by a real Conservative leader of influence with the fire and zeal of a fundamentalist, baptist preacher on Sunday morning and the Eloquence of the Gipper.

  62. Oscar says:

    From Milo Yiannopoulos:

    http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/06/12/left-chose-islam-gays-now-100-people-killed-maimed-orlando/

    “The Christian Right may not be totally down with homos, and Trump may say things that hurt our delicate feelings, but they aren’t going to kill us or put us in camps. Only Islam would do that — the same Islam that, bizarrely, now stands at the top of the left’s hierarchy of victimhood.”

    But, according to the ACLU, it’s Christians’ fault.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/aclu-lawyers-blame-christian-right-gop-for-orlando-terrorist-attack/article/2593679#.V124yVR4wHs.twitter

  63. Scott says:

    All of the relevant supreme court decision have struck down the notion that the police exist to protect any particular individual from a particular crime. If so, any time an individual was a victim of a crime, they could sue the police.

    As restrictions on carry (and guns in general) are not popular this is the right answer. Otherwise, the government is saying out of one side of its mouth “we can’t protect you” while simultaneously saying “and you can’t protect you” out of the other.

  64. Robert Mando says:

    the Supreme Court has ruled on multiple occasions that police ARE NOT required to put themselves in harms way to save or help any citizen.

    so they can mill around outside as long as they want, and there won’t be any actual repercussions. i mean, yeah, the Chief of Police might lose his job, but that’s just political expediency.

    another thing, i kind of doubt that your average cop is all that pro-homo. you’re going to go running into a flaming gay night club to risk your life in you have no idea what kind of situation?

    Bruce says: June 13, 2016 at 10:30 am
    Just curious – have they verified the caliber? Some reports I’ve seen say it was an “AR-15 type” rifle.

    that doesn’t really mean much.

    a – the news media are notoriously incompetent when it comes to identifying weapons
    b – even if it is an AR, you can buy non-standard uppers to convert it to different caliber / ammo

  65. seventiesjason says:

    Look at the Police / Peace Officers Unions in Florida. They all endorse Democrats for local, state and national offices. We recently had a serious gang fight in my neighborhood. The police showed up to clean up the dead bodies….several of which were innocent bystanders. Don’t think the police are going to show up and protect you, your family or neighborhood. I cannot speak for all, and I am a man who “backs the badge” however many in our police forces across the nation now have more loyalty to a union / political agenda / funding / benefits than to the cities, communities and people they serve.

  66. KP says:

    Frenchy,

    mob attack the assailant

    Easy to say, and obviously the best response under the circumstances.

    But quite hard to pull off in real life in that sort of venue: loud, crowded, dimly lit, lots of the crowd of diminished capacity due to alcohol intake, etc. Not exactly like United 93 where the victims/bystanders knew exactly where to find the bad guys.

    Blak,

    Fake psy-op? GMAB. Do you think the Paris or Brussels attacked were fake too? That the staff of Charlie Hebdo are all in hiding under assumed identities?

  67. The Other Jim says:

    @Anon, “Until we see gays saying that Muslims are a bigger threat than ‘Christians’ or ‘the NRA’, count me among the ‘let the chips fall where they may’ crowd.”

    True, these people are going to have to learn the hard way what Islam is-bloody and monstrous.

    For example, most people think the Iranian Revolution was by the Ayatollah Khomeini and his followers. What they forget is that the people really driving the removal of the Shah were Iranian university students, professors, trade unionists, socialists, elites, and “intellectuals”. Think of the people who produced Roosh, essentially your SJW’s, SWPL-Eloi elites, and beta males. FYI, Iran pre-Khomeini Revolution was a relatively modern(& modernizing) Middle East nation. Anyone walking the streets of Tehran back before 1978 would have felt comfortable as it was a recognizable modern city just like other cities in the West. I think Iran still has one of the most impressive collections of Modern Art(Picasso’s, Dali’s, et al) in the world from that pre-Khomeini era. Yet that was thrown away by the Iranians themselves. All of them helped Khomeini and his supporters kick the Shah out and seize power in the false belief things would go on as they had minus the Shah, yet it was the Ayatollah & Co. who took power and turned Iran into the dysfunctional, dismal Islamic state it is today because they were willing to kill and die for what they believed in-Authentic Islam. The rest-not so much which is why so many Persians left Iran when they got the chance.

    I’ll tell you what really brings the Left and Islam together-Hate.

    You see, most couples come and stay together because of what they both “love”. Each other, the life they built together, their children, etc. However, some couples stay together because of what they both “Hate”. That’s what brings the Left and Islam together. They have none of the same “loves” ,(Homosexuality, Feminism, Environmentalism, Social Justice, etc.vs. Islam) but all of the same “Hates”, eg Whites, Males, Christians, Heterosexuals. It is this hatred that brings the Left and Islam together. The problem is that ‘Hatred’ blinds the Left to the reality that Islam hates them as well. They believe that the ‘Enemy of their Enemy(Whites, Christians, et al) is their friend’. The Left has foolishly NEVER considered the possibility that the ‘Enemy of their Enemy could be their Enemy too…’

    French Communist philosopher and homosexual Michel Foucault is a excellent example of this hate-filled blindness. Foucault just loved the Ayatollah and thought Islam and the Left could take down the West together. He even went to Iran post-Revolution. Yet, Foucault’s hatred blinded him to the reality that the Ayatollah & his followers were far more likely to kill Foucault for being homosexual than any of Foucault’s White, Christian Heterosexuals.

    Just like Foucault, hatred blinds the Left to what Islam is…

  68. Feminist Hater says:

    Don’t worry, one and all, according to your ever knowledgeable, first negro el presidente. It is all ‘home grown’ extremism and if only you white supremacist, Christian, hetronormotive shit lords would give up your second amendment rights and let Daddy Government control your lives, all would be well and Kumbaya and stuff. So, give up those guns and embrace the suck!

  69. Anon says:

    The Other Jim,

    True, these people are going to have to learn the hard way what Islam is-bloody and monstrous.

    For 15 years, I felt that an attack on an American by radical Islam warranted vengeance, and that we must be united as Americans.

    But after 15 years of bizarre excuse-making for Muslims, my sympathy is merely proportional to how likely the victims were to recognize what the threat really is. If a group is more interested in blaming groups that are *not* dangerous to criticize, and jump to virtue-signal with their ‘most Muslims are moderate’ tripe, I can’t say I am troubled.

    I bet 75-80% of the victims of the gay club had more hate for the NRA, Donald Trump, and two-parent American families than for Islam. It is not our job to protect them from themselves.

    As far as the ranking of victims go, the gays in Orlando, as a group, are much are less worthy of sympathy than the 75 Pakistani Christians from 3 months ago.

    I also don’t consider it bad if radical feminists get in trouble with Muslims over time. I would welcome that.

  70. Opus says:

    @Feminist Hater

    Naturally. At the time of the riots in London in 2011 (how time flies) the worst damage to property in London since nightly visits from the Luftwaffe in 1940 one acquaintance of mine whom I would otherwise characterise as right-wing left me speechless by placing the blame on the Police and another acquaintance himself an immigrant and thus more predictably liberal traced the burning and looting to oppression of the Negros to White English generally – so that had to include me. I lost my temper – for a few moments, since when he has been a bit wary of me.

  71. Jim Christian says:

    Virginia State Police are guilty of the same thing at the Virginia Tech shootings. In that deal, one lone Korean kid (with known violence and mental health issues) with a single nine millimeter and several magazines killed thirty or forty people and wounded many more. The little bastard was in there for over an hour while many State police were outside cowering behind their cars even though they were armored up and loaded for war. They could hear the pop-pop-pops, yet they claimed they couldn’t get into the building because the doors were chained at that end of the building. And so they sat. Me, I’d do a Clint Eastwood and run a car through the doors, but no sense risking the life of a precious “First Responder. Finally, a campus cop came in from another direction and the minute the kid encountered the campus cop, the kid blew his own brains out. I think Virginia Tech is # 3 or 4 or 5 on the hit parade of mass shootings in the U.S.

    Face it folks, from 9/11 to this shit here, we’re horribly served by our law enforcement. This shooter was KNOWN top to bottom by the FBI and they let him do his deed. Then, the first response was so incompetent it came down to all this. We’ll never get a straight answer, but how the hell this went on for 3 hours-and-change without the media getting onto it is a mystery. Part of the benefit of digital communications, less scrutiny by the press who could listen to and respond to the scene by listening to the old analog scanners. The notion of First Response really takes a hit when the cops’ lives and pensions are more important than the citizens they serve and I’m getting a little sick and tired of it. That scene is locked down and NO ONE impartial is ever going to get a look or a straight story out of them. It won’t surprise me a bit to find out the cops shot/blew up the last ten or twenty victims, but I doubt we’ll ever get the truth out of them. In the final analysis, the cops’ asses are more precious than the citizens who pay them.

  72. Anon says:

    Remember that a huge portion of police revenue and hence resources are devoted to VAWA, since there are arrest quotas and Federal matching grants for meeting the arrest quotas of men.

    For this reason, almost every other police activity is a lower priority than VAWA. If you are wondering how ‘feminism’ increases incidence of seemingly unrelated crime, this the prime reason why. One reason that the police did not go to the gay club was that this situation was a lower priority than revenue-yielding VAWA calls, for which Saturday night is the peak period.

    For example, if you call 911 because someone in the household had a heart attack (meaning you need an ambulance, not a police car), the police will still show up and try to get the woman to say that the man hit or something, even if nothing of the sort is even on the mind of anyone, since that helps the police meet their VAWA arrest quota and get more Federal dollars. They are desperate to invent more VAWA arrests from the most minimal gossamer strands they can detect…

  73. seventiesjason says:

    The Ayatollah prior the revolution had no physical army. He didn’t have the “government” at his disposal unlike the Shah. He didn’t have the police. All people knew of him (who were paying attention anyway) in the “west” prior to 1979 saw an old man and tattered prayer rug.

    Yes, the overthrow of the Shah was not done by the “oppressed poor of Iran” but the growing middle class, the college students, the journalist and others in the professional trades. In most proclaimed socialist revolutions……it’s the supposed “intellectual” class that leads the charge. I still laugh so hard when I hear “journalists” in the USA say “I would have stood up to Hitler and asked the ‘tough’ questions”

    In Weimar Germany, Hitlers biggest supporters came not from the “landwirt / bauer” (Farmer) or “arbeiten” (worker). It came from the professional and entitled classes of people who wanted “free healthcare” and “higher education” and “paid for everything” by the “greedy factory owners and German industrialists”

    The college student. The “enlightened and socialistic pastors / churches” of that period. The journalists. Many professional class Germans of that period.Hitler fed deeply into class division and fanned up a “class warfare” platform all through the 1920’s. This was on many propaganda fronts as well…despite the fact that many industrialists actively supported his party. Hitler also really disliked and wasn’t keen on “private gun ownership” either.

    American journalism today would actively support and do support people who speak like this.

  74. Anon says:

    As this was a gay club, almost all victims were obviously male.

    List of victims.

    But that won’t stop ‘feminists’ from their usual ‘women hardest hit’ tripe.

    Elliot Rodger : Killed 4 men and 2 women. Women hardest hit!
    San Bernardino shooters : Killed 9 men and 5 women. Women hardest hit!
    Orlando : 50 men and maybe 1 woman (who may be a trans for all we know). Women hardest hit!

  75. Jim Christian says:

    Kind of delicious that the Democrats’ factions are eating and killing each other. The Muslim lobby, a major part of Obama’s platform killed 50 gay men, ANOTHER part of the Democrat platform and in true loyal fashion, Obama defended Islam. #Blacklivesmatter, a MAJOR constituent base hassled Sanders and interrupted Hillary and Bill on many occasions the past year as well as major #BLM distractions and violence on city streets and college campuses, said college campuses being yet another liberal faction. Liberal factions are at war with one another under the Democrat banner. Surreal. I often wonder, now that Islam settles in as a loyal Democrat faction and makes targets of gays and feminists on a regular basis, how it all shakes out. The gays supposedly, in AZ, went for Trump on their Facebook page, but that’s hardly fighting back. Truly fighting back means shooting up a mosque in retaliation. That’s how Muslims fight (each other, too, Shia/Sunni). But the homos don’t have that in them. When both sides are attacking each other, I suppose that’s the definition of civil war. Never happen and no thanks to the police, besides, the gays are too feminized and weak. Who will win? Who is stronger? Who will the Democrats in power actually pander to in the end? My money is on Islam as long as Democrats are in power. The Liberals will trade their gays and trannies in on Islam. Watch, it’s already happening. The Muzzies won’t stop unless and until THEIR people are being attacked in the same fashion.

  76. seventiesjason says:

    I can attest to the VAWA of “Anon’s” above comment. I work in a senior citizen apartment complex. We called an ambulance for a resident who had fallen down (staff are not allowed to move or touch any resident. Where I work, it’s not a nursing facility). Her husband was not at home. The ambulance came……and a few minutes later the Fresno Police arrived. They “knew” she was married, and began to ask her questions like “are you sure you’re husband didn’t push you?”

    Our manager even interjected and said “Officer, he’s at a doctors appoitment, the VA picked him up……” The Officer cut him off and said firmly “If I need to talk to you, I’ll talk to you.”

    The woman said “No…no, I just slipped and fell………”
    Officer cuts in, “he didn’t push you down, hurt you….and then leave for his appointment? Does he ever get violent with you?”

    I was even feeling really strange about this….the building social worker when I told her rolled her eyes and said the “VAWA is about funding, not helping women”

    It’s happening men. Get right with God. Hold firm. Find a church with solid doctrine. Read His Word daily and pray. Times are going to get rougher.

  77. Anon says:

    seventiesjason,

    There was a time when the 911 emergency service was what made America better than most other countries. An ambulance would quickly arrive, and your chance of survival was higher than in almost any other country.

    But ‘feminism’ has weaponized the 911 service as a tool of police-state misandry. Now, a husband can be ejected from his home in minutes, sometimes even against the wife’s wishes (a third party can call the cops on the husband). This cannot happen so easily in the supposedly ‘non-first-world’ countries.

    Taking something invaluable and turning it into a weapon of horrors that does not exist even in supposedly less advanced countries, described ‘feminism’ perfectly.

    Remember, it is not just the horror driven by dollars, but police prioritize VAWA calls above all others. That is probably the real reason a gay club shooting spree was not a priority on Sat night – no Federal dollars are attached to making arrests, so preventing the shootout at the cost of an extra 1 or 2 VAWA calls was not financially worthwhile for the police department.

    In short, NEVER, EVER call 911 if you live with a woman, unless there really is a life-threatening emergency serious enough to risk a fictitious DV arrest. Outside of that, calling 911 is not worth it. For all intents and purposes, you are better off pretending that the 911 service we know of from our youth no longer exists in America.

  78. Anon says:

    I should add that cuckservatives like Boehner had the opportunity to de-fund VAWA, and did not do it. Cartoonish whiteknighting prevailed.

  79. tsotha says:

    In a crowded nightclub, full of drunk/drugged up partiers, I bet one could shoot 10-15 before a critical mass of people really understood what was going on. Several witnesses said they heard the gunshots and thought it was part of the music.

    And when it finally dawned on them what was happening, they’d all crowd around the nearest exit trying to get out. You get significant over-penetration with a rifle at that range – shooting into a tightly packed crowd you could easily hit more than one person per round.

  80. Dota says:

    I see the following outcomes from this horrific tragedy:

    1) The media will ignore the immigration issue entirely
    2) Our elites will call for tighter gun control
    3) If there is resistance to gun control, they will offer the sheeple mass surveillance instead

  81. When you’re talking about something like a nightclub where people are packed in, shoulder-to-shoulder like sardines and the gunman blocking one of the narrow exits out of the club one of the things people who have a hard time believing the media reports aren’t taking into account is projectile overpenetration which increases the casualty count.

    In the Paris attacks, Eagles of Death Metal frontman Jesse Hughes had doctors extract fragments of a woman’s teeth and bone embedded in his face. Some poor woman standing in front of him had her jaw shot off.

    Please don’t take me for a shill, I know a Sandy Hoax when I see one.

  82. Remo says:

    The police did exactly what police always do when faced with an actual challenge – they pussed out. If you want to see a cop wet his pants put him up against someone actually willing to *shoot back* instead of the torrent of unarmed fat old men and women they routinely prey on for ticket money. Police rely on submission and if you don’t they won’t move in for hours/days unless they have massive backup. This is a cadre that firmly believes their pensions, benefits, and perks trump everyone peasants life much less their own. They are the ultimate cowards and should never be relied on to do anything other than order someone else to mop up the blood before clocking out.

  83. They Call Me Tom says:

    Muslims are a protected group. The funny thing is that while the left says, “Hey! Don’t you lump all them muslims together!!!!” Their policies in handling muslim sociopaths suggests that they themselves lump all muslims together in the poor-misunderstood-aliens category, unable to tell the sociopaths from the rest.

  84. biggaystevec says:

    I am certain that the affirmative action hiring had something to do with the horrible police response. The bouncers at gay bars are not like real bouncers the only one that actually might have fought is the off duty cop. Most gays would rather be victims than fight, and Soros funded cheerleaders set the narrative.

    Pam Geller even got shouted down for telling gays about moslems just like when the San Fran Gate published demographics of crime showing blacks committed the majority of bashings and other crimes while only 5% of the population. Even more telling is they make up 8% of San Fran Public Schools but 71% of arrests in the public schools.

    When we saw the chimp outs with the food stamp card going down for 8 hours on 10-12-2013 we fled die verse city for Whitopia in a castle law state. My parents paid for martial arts lesions and I joined the military to pay for college so I would have no problem shooting a desert didndu, but gay conservatives are very rare. I don’t want more money taken out of my paychecks just because Latrina squatted out 21 crackbabies.

    Jenner only had to kill one woman to identify as a woman driver but even after killing 50 gays an Afghani moslem still gets labeled an American man.

  85. Oscar says:

    Video footage from inside the night club.

    I wish I could say they were like sheep, but sheep actually run from danger.

  86. Anon says:

    In many ways, a club is an unusually favorable target for a mass shooter/terrorist :

    1) People are inebriated
    2) The place is dark and noisy, so the origin of gunfire will not even be obvious at first.
    3) When people are shot, they call, and prevent others from leaving/running by getting in the way.
    4) The police are occupied with VAWA calls, as Fri and Sat night are the peak periods for hitting VAWA quotas. This is hence a low financial priority for the police.

  87. Coloradomtnman says:

    @seventiesjason Wakeup – the Shah was overthrown by the CIA; all the other groups you mention were simply Agency fronts.

  88. feeriker says:

    They are the ultimate cowards and should never be relied on to do anything other than order someone else to mop up the blood before clocking out.

    Aw, c’mon now. If you need to know where the nearest donut shop or seedy bar is, you couldn’t find a more authoritative source. You can absolutely rely on them for THAT, even more than your YP app. Credit where credit is due.

    But yeah, you’re right; they’re also experts at ordering others to mop up the messes caused by their negligence and incompetence. Fortunately for them that’s a skill readily transferable to the private sector – a must-have skill, in fact, for executive managers.

  89. feeriker says:

    4) The police are occupied with VAWA calls, as Fri and Sat night are the peak periods for hitting VAWA quotas. This is hence a low financial priority for the police.

    Porky is also busy on these nights prowling for drunk drivers – or at least a reasonable facsimile thereof that he can frame. Another lucrative source of revenue (and prison-industrial complex fodder) for the State.

    Yes, violent crime scenes like the shooting venue are definitely VERY low priority: unprofitable and dangerous.

  90. Avraham rosenblum says:

    I tend to be not surprised when I hear abut a Muslim killing people. In the USA this was unknown expect in international terror incidents that were in the news.There were not Muslims except for Iranians fleeing from the Islamic revolution over there. But then I was in a country where there were Muslims. Then it was common to hear about Muslims blowing up buses all the time. At least a few times per week. To I got used to hearing about this. I guess it was a shock to me the first times I heard about it but eventually i got used to the idea. Where there are Muslims. you can expect they will kill infidels pretty much on a continuous basis. No surprises here.

  91. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Salon writer Amanda Marcotte blames the Orlando shooting on toxic masculinity: http://www.salon.com/2016/06/13/overcompensation_nation_its_time_to_admit_that_toxic_masculinity_drives_gun_violence/

  92. Spike says:

    Red Pill Latecomer says:
    June 14, 2016 at 2:38 am
    Salon writer Amanda Marcotte blames the Orlando shooting on toxic masculinity: http://www.salon.com/2016/06/13/overcompensation_nation_its_time_to_admit_that_toxic_masculinity_drives_gun_violence/

    One wonders if Ms Marcotte is being consistent by keeping a running score on the number of abortions performed to date – exclusively a woman’s crime and exclusively due to female “toxic feminity” (selfishness). But that would be too much to ask.
    I’m not drawing a long bow here: Muslim migrants are only in the West because of the declining birth rate, due in turn, to feminism.

  93. Jeff says:

    Dalrock,
    It might be starting in England.
    New mayor might be banning outdoor advertising of scantily clad women. Don’t have a link, but someone will find it.

  94. Hmm says:

    Here’s the link:
    http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/13/londons-muslim-mayor-bans-sexy-women-in-advertisements/

    So far it’s only ads that promote “body shaming”. The camel’s nose in the tent…

  95. Anon says:

    Spike,

    Muslim migrants are only in the West because of the declining birth rate, due in turn, to feminism.

    It is more direct. Women specifically vote for more Muslims to be imported.

    Women get gina tingles from Islam, and female voting patterns are governed by little beyond gina tingles and AF/BB.

  96. elovesc35 says:

    SWAT wasn’t brought in till 3 hours after attack started. Lessons to be learned from this fiasco : 1. Arm yourself 2. Get good training in the use of your firearm 3. DON’T go to gun free zones.
    YOU are responsible for your own safety.

  97. I am sorry to report that I have had many would be cops in my classes. Almost all of them are arrogant pricks who are NOT interested in “protect and serve.” They have the exact same mentality as all other government workers- clock watchers, hepped up on their own self importance interested in the “cover your ass” game far, far more than they are in “serving the public.”

    If you want to know whether the police are for the citizens or against the citizens, gauge your own reaction when you see a police car. You slam on the brakes. You tense up. You are terrified!

    You know what you do NOT get? You do NOT get a feeling of warmth and security. You do NOT get a feeling that the nice ossifer is there to help…because you know that he is not. Wake up sheeple!

    That cops have the attitude: What’s the problem? You don’t have anything to worry about us so long as you are not guilty…right? Court’s always get it right and besides- everybody knows that going to court is free in terms of money and mental health. If you didn’t do anything wrong you don’t have anything to worry about. Sure, and if you believe all that, how about you masticate my vas deferens.

    The cops attitude today is just like the Roman Centenarian crucifying our Lord. If you want something different see the judge or the governor because I am just following orders. It’s not my fault! The enraging thing is how they cloak themselves arrogantly in the whole “wearing the uniform to serve my community” lie that especially cuck-servatives spread.

    The good news is all those bullet holes likely created plenty of additional glory holes for the stiff masses of men waiting for service.

  98. Pingback: Some stuff I read and commented about this week… | Morally Contextualized Romance

  99. feeriker says:

    Almost all [cops] are arrogant pricks who are NOT interested in “protect and serve.” They have the exact same mentality as all other government workers- clock watchers, hepped up on their own self importance interested in the “cover your ass” game far, far more than they are in “serving the public.”

    If you want to know whether the police are for the citizens or against the citizens, gauge your own reaction when you see a police car. You slam on the brakes. You tense up. You are terrified!

    That this is so obvious everywhere should make it superfluous to have to describe, and should also render the whole “serve and protect” nonsense subject to absolutely no other response than derisive laughter. Yet amazingly, as if to serve as prima facie evidence of just how deep brainless self-delusion runs in Amerika today, millions of sheeple still worship these douchebag gangsters as heroes. The only thing to which I can attribute this is to the fact that we haven’t yet reached critical mass, as the Soviet Union under Stalin did in the late 1930s, where everyone has been victimized by the swine, or has a family member, friend, or acquaintance who has been. Then and only then might all eyes finally be opened.

  100. Otto Lamp says:

    The police are not military soldiers.

    Police officers are civilians, and it’s not reasonable to expect them to charge head first into danger they way soldiers do in combat.

    Given that, and the fact that we live in a society where random violence/terrorism has become common enough to worry about, the prudent man should start thinking ahead about where and when he wants to spend his time.

    Nightclubs? Alcohol and guns don’t mix. You are either easy terrorist prey in a gun free zone, or at the mercy of any drunk who pulls a gun because you looked at him sideways. In either case, maybe nightclubs are best avoided for now.

  101. Gunner Q says:

    Remo @ June 13, 2016 at 8:54 pm:
    “The police did exactly what police always do when faced with an actual challenge – they pussed out.”

    Do you want police that are trained, equipped and numerous enough to charge into a terrorist attack at a moment’s notice with no intel, or do you want non-militarized police with no license to kill? Can’t have it both ways.

    feeriker @ 12:31 am:
    “Porky is also busy on these nights prowling for drunk drivers”

    Good, he’s enforcing the law and keeping taxes down in the process.

    Seriously, what’s up with cop-hate in the Manosphere? I get American police are turning into bullies but it’s something being forced on them from above and below. Gov’t orders and encourages them to do wrong and citizens judge all of them by the actions of their most evil members. A cop who’s convinced nothing will make citizens happy but his untimely death is a cop who will stop caring and just do as he’s told.

    This is a Christian issue, too. Do you know where “if you are forced to go one mile, go two miles instead” (Matt. 5:41) comes from? Roman legionnaires had the right to force a civilian to carry his backpack for one mile in order to rest himself on marches. Now, legionnaires were the oppressors of Israel at the time. Cruel, hard soldiers imposing brutal foreign rule. And Christ recommended showing them unmerited kindness in His most important sermon.

    Respect the badge. This doesn’t mean you approve of everything police do or the increasingly unjust policies they enforce. It does mean not calling them “Porky” and hating them on general principles.

  102. Otto, that’s exactly backwards. When cops were truly civilians, patrolling neighborhoods and trying to “protect and serve,” they were more likely to charge into danger to save others. Even Barney Fife could work up the courage to chamber his one bullet and go it alone if he had to. But since they’ve become militarized as part of the Wars and Drugs and Terror, with body armor, SWAT teams, attack dogs, and so on, they’ve become more likely to wait until they have overwhelming force.

    Now, do we have a right to expect cops to risk their lives to save others? I don’t know, but we do expect it. We view them like firefighters, who charge into burning buildings to save people. We wouldn’t accept firefighters saying, “I’m not going inside a burning building! Are you crazy? I might die! We’ll just wait for the crane to get here, so we can lift those people safely off the roof. It should be here in three hours or so, no problem.”

    So we do expect cops to risk their lives when people are being killed, and that’s why we don’t mind giving them very nice pensions after 20 years of service, even in small towns where no cop has been killed in living memory. If they’re going to treat every encounter as a military exercise where their own casualties are their foremost concern, maybe that will have to change.

  103. Looking Glass says:

    Government Pensions.

    I’d argue most of the animosity is driven by the unmitigated disaster those are. Those + Entitlements drive so many actions by our governments that it’s very easy to forget it. It’s little different than a drug addiction. It really screws up all of the assumptions & action sets.

  104. seventiesjason says:

    I am not justifying ‘cop hate” and in fact I back the badge. I could not do what many a solid, upright man in uniform is doing daily despite the pressures of the Union, the “administration” above them, the “human resources department” always being trained and watching them to make a mistake……and then pounced upon!

    With that said……..even watching the “Cops” TV show today. 911 call, man claims his “wife is beating him up / attacking him”

    Cops arrive, they seem to think its “funny” that a man is getting beat up. yet at the same time, the man is put into the cop car and booked because he ‘somehow instigated the situation’ or ‘made her mad’ and the she “the poor defenseless woman” didn’t know what to do, she’s offered counseling, restraining orders (despite the fact the dude is bleeding, and black & blue), offered services of a “women’s shelter”

    The dude is pleading his side, cop says “tell it to a judge”

    In another episode, in Texas (a supposed ‘law n’ order’ order state) a woman is caught with drugs, cocaine, meth, a large amount with intent to sell / distribute. She’s is of course a victim, an addict, a single-mother…….she wasn’t arrested! She was offered “drug and substance abuse help”

    As the segment fades out you hear the cop saying “She needs help, to get her life back together and that’s what we on the Houston police force are all about!”

    I lived in San Francisco for twelve years….and IF you get murdered in San Francisco, them solving homicides is the WORST in the nation. It’s an overall safe city….but don’t get murdered in this city! They will never find the killer.

  105. >>what’s up with cop-hate in the Manosphere?

    White Knight Cops are the lowest form of vermin and that includes almost all of them. These people literally spend 1/2 their time handling “domestic violence” disputes and arresting men 99 to 1. They NEVER make an arrest on filing a false police report charge or perjury in “rape” cases but they ALWAYS make an arrest (of the man) on a DV charge. Before you try to blab about “pressure from the top and bottom” or whatever, let me assure you that cops have ENORMOUS discretion and they routinely use it to White Knight stupid and provocative women. They far to frequently assault men and other minorities just for the hell of it. They shoot first and ask questions later. They ride around like occupying soldiers in hostile territory rather than walking through the neighborhoods and TALKING to people. You don’t need 27 SWAT team cops and 4 weeks of surveillance to stop a drug dealer on your street. A SINGLE cop can walk up to the guy and spend 2 minutes of chatter mixed with some friendly advice that his kind of business is not going to be tolerated in the city streets any more. “New City Policy” don’t you know.

    They act like the local drug dealer guy will suddenly scream “Allahu Ahkbar” and blow himself up. Nope. He will move along and eventually find a different line of work. But…but…that would solve the problem and I guess we can’t have that. MUCH better to spend 2000 hours at the shooting range, practice team tactical home entry, and of course learning how to choke out a suspect after you pepper spray and taser him unconscious.

    All that said, maybe cops are like politicians- all cops are bad but…the local guy is not so bad after all. I like our local cops. They respond to a 911 call before you hang up the phone but it is still clear their primary function is revenue generation- mostly from minorities who come through my creamy white town if we judge rather accurately I must say by the line at the local city court.

  106. greyghost says:

    ,

    Seriously, what’s up with cop-hate in the Manosphere?

    What a question. The cops are the whiteknight mangina enforcers of the feminine imperative. Their chance to shine and they wait a few hours for some “raghead’ to kill off a bunch of “fags” way to go police.
    I feel really bad for the guys that join up with the attitude of saving lives and helping the community. They don’t make it and get consumed by the beast. Look what it gets them. (see comments)
    The cell phone has shown what the police are. go to you tube and see what those guys do to the public. A guy at work read out a report that people lose more personal property to police confiscation than from theft by criminals now. Great stat to think about for a few hours waiting to be killed by a terrorist all the while in full contact with the outside world via your cell phone.

  107. Dalrock says:

    @Cail Corishev

    Otto, that’s exactly backwards. When cops were truly civilians, patrolling neighborhoods and trying to “protect and serve,” they were more likely to charge into danger to save others. Even Barney Fife could work up the courage to chamber his one bullet and go it alone if he had to. But since they’ve become militarized as part of the Wars and Drugs and Terror, with body armor, SWAT teams, attack dogs, and so on, they’ve become more likely to wait until they have overwhelming force.

    It does seem this way, that we have received the worst of both worlds. My guess is the average cop really does want to go in and save lives, and not play it safe. I think the change has been in leadership/culture/policy.

    As more information has trickled out on this shooting, it turns out that the shooter had retreated into a bathroom after a firefight with the first three officers on the scene. The chief says that “dozens and dozens” of people were then brought out of the larger nightclub. But it sounds like it was only those who were easy to find and able to move (or at least conscious enough to see the cops and call out for help). After the shooter retreated into the bathroom, the three cops became afraid that there might be bombs in the building (some reports say on the downed victims) and “retreated” outside the bar. From this point until 5:00 AM when they breached it sounds like they played it safe outside, although they did help break some people out of two different rooms from the outside. While the claim is that they didn’t want to risk the lives of hostages, this doesn’t explain (to a layman like myself at least) why they left the entire bar for around three hours. It seems like the main reason was fear of possible explosives. There is a video from one of the Florida papers where the head of the SWAT team talks about how proud he is that his team stayed near the building and didn’t run away like they wanted to. I have no doubt it was frightening, but it is a strange comment.

    What still isn’t clear in the timelines I’ve read is when the terrorist had time to shoot over 100 people. The way it is described the off duty cop was on site and responded immediately, and was very quickly joined by two other officers who happened to be SWAT. Once they went inside and engaged the shooter it sounds like he quickly booked it for the bathroom where some people were already hiding. I don’t see how the shooter could shoot that many civilians while simultaneously fighting off the cops. There seems to be something left out, either that the cop at the door didn’t engage until most of the people had already been shot (either due to fear or not knowing that anything was going on), or that the cop at the door started to engage but then broke off contact until the other two officers arrived, and during this delay the shooter was able to shoot large numbers of patrons.

  108. feeriker says:

    My guess is the average cop really does want to go in and save lives, and not play it safe. I think the change has been in leadership/culture/policy.

    Yes. Many idealistic probies/rookies go into law enforcement with the highest of ideals. However, they are very quickly disabused of the noble idea that policing is about actually protecting the lives and property of the citizenry (i.e., “serving and protecting”). At this point they either let their cynicism get the better of them, slip into an attitude of resignation, and go along to get along (the ONLY viable option if they want to continue “serving” and live to tell about it); or they resign from the force and find something genuinely noble and productive to do with themselves.

    Option number two above is the only option for those who have any respect for the Natural Law or the rights and safety of the citizenry – or respect for themselves as human beings of integrity. There are no peace officers left anymore, only “law enforcers.” There is a very big difference between the two. The prevalence of the latter at the expense of the former is why we’re in the hopeless shape we’re in.

  109. You guys may be right that they have the courage and dedication that we used to assume in cops trained out of them.

    A few years ago, I was standing in the cattle barn at our county fair when a bull got his feet free from the stall his head was locked in while his owner clipped his hair. He knocked his owner down and proceeded to slam the stall up and down and against the post it was tied to, trying to smash free of it. There were spectators around, including plenty of women and children. Without thinking, about ten of the nearest men ran over and piled on him, shoving him back into the stall and getting him under control. Fortunately, none of us came away with worse than cuts and bruises, because he could have really crushed someone.

    Here’s the thing: I don’t think the reaction would have been much different if the crisis had been gunshots and screams coming from the barn nextdoor. Maybe a bit more time to try to scope out the situation, get a peek and see what we were running into, but if the shots and screams continued, there’s no way we would have sat and listened for hours. Someone would have charged and others would have followed. And I’m not saying we’re super-courageous where I live or anything; that’s just being men and doing what you have to do, isn’t it?

    But not cops, because they’re not there to save anyone. Maybe they’d like to, but their job is to apprehend the suspect while risking themselves as little as possible. If they can save people in the process, great. Maybe that is a matter of training and bureaucracy and knowing that, if you charge in before SWAT gets there and a cop dies, you’ll lose your job. After all, what’s all that military-type training and equipment for if you don’t wait for it?

  110. Anon says:

    Seriously, what’s up with cop-hate in the Manosphere?

    This question reveals that you did not read the above comments about VAWA. You need an education.

    It is not about what cops used to be, but what VAWA has made them become. Read my comment above about VAWA. Cops would rather get a DV arrest much more than stop almost any other crime, since the former carries more Federal money, and the latter does not.

    Cops behave a certain way because the FI enabled feminists and whiteknights to pass a ridiculously biased financial incentive structure where police departments get more Federal money for more arrests (under the false suspicion that most DV is not reported and only done by men). Hence, the police’s incentive structure is all wrong, all across America.

    Cops are now thrilled to be able to arrest a man for DV, whether he did something or not.
    Plus, the 911 emergency system is now a net negative for any man who lives with a woman (although it is still useful for a single man who lives alone), since you are more likely to have your life ruined by VAWA than saved by the speedy arrival of an ambulance. This would change overnight if VAWA grants were discontinued, but there is zero chance of that.

    Hence, the FI, which becomes too powerful in a democracy, invariably ruins both the police and the emergency response system.

  111. Anon says:

    Remember that in addition to the police being ‘law officers’ rather than ‘peace officers’, it does not help that the ‘electorate’ sees being a beta male doing productive work as a far worse crime than being a terrorist or serial killer, and so laws and enforcement decisions are being modified in accordance with what the ‘voters’ have become.

  112. feeriker says:

    It is not about what cops used to be, but what VAWA has made them become.

    VAWA and everything else associated with the extra-constitutional power grab by all levels of government, something that was already coming along at a steady pace before the turn of the new millennium, but that has rocketed ahead at wharp speed since 9/11/01.

  113. Anon says:

    VAWA and everything else associated with the extra-constitutional power grab by all levels of government, something that was already coming along at a steady pace before the turn of the new millennium, but that has rocketed ahead at wharp speed since 9/11/01.

    Female voters vote for those things. That is why it was underway as a general trend independent of 9/11/01. This is why we see it in other democracies as well, that did not have a major terrorist attack of that size around that time (like Canada, Australia, etc.).

    Remember, under the FI, being an upstanding citizen beta male who works in engineering is a worse crime that being a serial killer or terrorist. The laws and enforcement agencies adapt accordingly, since that is what ‘voters’ want. There is no constitution other than ‘gina tingles supercede all’, and AF/BB is to be enforced everywhere.

  114. They’d rather shoot unarmed people.

  115. They Call Me Tom says:

    Why the harsh criticism? Cops have been turned into glorified tax collectors for a greedy State. No one likes tax collectors.

    Anyone who has had a car broken into and waited hours for a response, even while at least two officers are sitting at two speed traps no more than a mile away… anyone who reads about multiple pension collectors, i.e. retired police officers/firemen who take a second government job, retire, and then get a private sector job before they’ve reached 60…. anyone who has seen the financial breakdowns for the local ‘police’ or ‘fireman’ charities and realized that they’re very for-profit… all these things lower the esteem for what perhaps at some point was an especially noble calling.

    I’ve known the people few and far between who do the job for the right reasons, but the institution itself has lost it’s luster because it’s become a unionized bureaucracy out for it’s own preservation and with very little interest in the public’s property and safety. And I didn’t even know about the whole domestic violence fraud that they participate in until reading this thread.

  116. Spike says:

    Anon says:
    June 14, 2016 at 9:41 am
    “Spike,

    Muslim migrants are only in the West because of the declining birth rate, due in turn, to feminism.

    It is more direct. Women specifically vote for more Muslims to be imported.

    Women get gina tingles from Islam, and female voting patterns are governed by little beyond gina tingles and AF/BB”.

    I’d agree with that too, Anon. Too many times I’ve seen hijab-clad Western women, betraying their culture, on the arms of some bearded wannabe jihadist. it’s going to end badly – she is going to want to leave him because he’s “violent and endangers the children…” yet it didn’t stop her opening up for him at the start.

    I have consistently been against Muslim migration into the West, since I had read the Quran in part and understand enough about it to understand that you don’t change Islam. You change TO Islam, or you die. For that I have been called thug, racist, neo-nazi, bogan (hillbilly), uneducated, and on and on and on. Most of the people who have levelled insults at me are women.

  117. Anon says:

    Spike,

    Remember that if ‘birth rates’ alone were the reason, then there are plenty of docile, productive peoples across the world from which immigrants can be drawn from.

    Muslims are the least desirable immigrants, for exactly the same reason that women want to import them at all costs. Violence give women gina tingles. Gina tingles are the only law of the land when women are the majority of voters..

    Hence, if there is to be any immigration at all, Muslims are nonetheless prioritized over a) Christians and b) well-educated Asian STEM types…

  118. Looking Glass says:

    @Anon:

    Asian betas are actually valued lower than White beta. Except if they come in as a HB1 Visa.

  119. Avraham rosenblum says:

    I also saw this dynamic.A girl falls for some macho Muslim and then gets abuses and regrets it. And especially when the children turn out to be violent criminals. But by then it is too late

  120. MarcusD says:

    What the hook-up culture has done to women.
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=1014350

    Practical help for a sexless marriage
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=1014347

    BEL’s comment in the hook-up thread explains a few things.

  121. Looking Glass says:

    @MarcusD:

    Repentance from debauchery is something of a prerequisite for Salvation in Christianity. Something a lot of Christians should probably keep in mind.

  122. Hmm says:

    For someone who knows: How much of the police force’s retreat from risk was due to liability / insurance concerns?

  123. Novaseeker says:

    BEL’s comment in the hook-up thread explains a few things.

    Interesting thing is that she’s an atheist. Why hang around a Catholic forum? It’s an odd decision. Either she wants to taunt and snipe at her former church, hoping to pick off a stray here and there (likely, and in which case any real moderator, which I know do not exist on CAF, would instaban her for) or she is still seeking some kind of community somehow (less likely). If she’s such a well-adjusted and happy-clappy atheist, why troll the Catholic boards?

  124. Novaseeker says:

    I have consistently been against Muslim migration into the West, since I had read the Quran in part and understand enough about it to understand that you don’t change Islam. You change TO Islam, or you die. For that I have been called thug, racist, neo-nazi, bogan (hillbilly), uneducated, and on and on and on. Most of the people who have levelled insults at me are women.

    Well, yes, indeed.

    See Bill Maher run all over Charlie Rose on this issue here:

    http://jewtube.tv/islam/bill-maher-absolutely-destroys-charlie-rose-comparing-islam-christianity/

  125. Pingback: “We did retreat” | Dalrock

  126. MarcusD says:

    @Novaseeker

    From what I’ve read, she’s not (nor ever was) Catholic, but married into a Catholic family (her husband would call himself an ex-Catholic and an atheist). She was raised in a Christian household, so there’s still some element of sniping and taunting, but overall it does seem odd for her to be on CAF (and to remain there – e.g. she’s got quite the list of prog organizations on her resume). At times it seems like she wants approval from others for her behavior (which she does indeed get occasionally). Mostly though, it seems like she wants to provide an atheist response to Catholic morality, but usually does so in an indignant and aggrieved way. She’s the type of person that believes everyone wants to, or should want to, hear everything she says (and probably agree wholeheartedly with it). What she has told the board about her childhood would lead anyone to doubt her claims of being happy and well-balanced.

  127. InnerCynic says:

    I asked the very same question immediately upon hearing about it… is officer “safety” so paramount that they’ll take three damn hours to get down to business? In my mind it was a complete and total failure on the part of Orlando PD. Then again they only admitted belatedly there were multiple shooters

  128. Oleaginous Outrager says:

    Warren v. District of Columbia
    DeShaney v. Winnebago County
    Gonzales v Castle Rock

    The police/government are under exactly no obligation to provide any service whatsoever to you, even if you’re threatened with death. Plan accordingly.

  129. Pingback: Lightning Round – 2016/06/22 | Free Northerner

  130. Daily Llama says:

    “Too many times I’ve seen hijab-clad Western women, betraying their culture, on the arms of some bearded wannabe jihadist. it’s going to end badly – she is going to want to leave him because he’s “violent and endangers the children…” yet it didn’t stop her opening up for him at the start.”

    Arab men fit the classically attractive “tall, dark and handsome” archetype. Many of those unions end in divorce. However the hijab thing is a recent thing in Islam, gaining traction only in the last 40 years. Most Muslim majority countries did not cover up like that. Many still don’t. There’s political reasons why though its been on the increase. America’s ally Saudi Arabia is responsible for much of it.

  131. Franconia says:

    “[Government] is a slow, cumbersome, overly bureaucratic, incompetent institution (at all levels).”

    This is simply not true. The government is extremely good at what it does. You just have to recognize what it’s goal really are. Hint: outstanding customer service for the citizenry is NOT it’s primary motivation. Frustrating byzantine bureaucracy is a feature, not a bug.

    The government at all levels takes 1 out of every 2 dollars in the entire economy from the people who earn the money. All that is required is a little propaganda and the threat of violence, which almost never has to be used. No company or criminal organization has even 1% of that ability to take and control other people’s wealth and income. It is the most successful conspiracy of all time.

    For an organization which can convince 330 million people to let it take half of the money they collectively generate, convincing them to believe in some random shooting event is child’s play.

    Looks like someone has zero familiarity with the intelligence agencies, compartmentalization/need to know – nor organized crime, such as the mafia or the Mexican and Colombian drug cartels.

    People who love television have a really hard time accepting the fact that not everything reported in the media is true.

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