Who cares?

Commenter yac-yac asks why a young man would want respect from a man who would tell him to man up and marry those sluts:

That, I think, is the epiphany, the moment of change: the awareness on the part of the young man, that the opinion of a Cuckservative has less value than a bucket of warm ratsh_t, as at least you could use the ratsh_t as fertilizer in the tomato patch.

“Man Up and Marry Those Sluts!”

“Why?”

“To earn My Respect[tm].”

“Why should I care about whether or not some random @$$hole ‘respects’ me?”

How much the respect of such a conservative is valued by a young man is a good question, but we should be clear that in the example given (Tucker Carlson), respect isn’t on offer for a man who marries.

We can see this by how flippant Carlson is about a system designed to disrespect the respectable.  He doesn’t care.  This was clear in the video I quoted in the previous post, based on his exasperated disinterest in the fact that honorable men are held in contempt by society.  If he respected men who marry, he wouldn’t have been so eager to shrug off the issues that Dr. Helen presented.

This is also clear in another video on the topic where Carlson reacted to a quote from Dr. Helen:

Dr. Helen:  [The] new world order is a place where men are discriminated against, forced into a hostile environment in school and later in college, and held in contempt by society. Maybe there is no incentive to grow up anymore. It used to be that being a grown-up, responsible man was rewarded with respect, power and deference. Now, not so much.

Tucker Carlson:  Every word of that is true, and let me say who cares?  If you’re a man, stop whining and reclaim your birthright which is masculinity, and masculinity and male power derive from responsibility. You don’t embrace responsibility, you have no power

If Carlson respected honorable men, he would be disturbed to see them treated with contempt, especially in a such a coordinated way. I imagine that unlike married men Carlson does have at least some respect for wounded veterans. Assuming that is true, would Carlson answer “Who Cares?” if someone pointed out that wounded veterans were being systemically treated with contempt by our government, and that this in turn was harming enlistment rates?

Never.

This may sound to some about fairness, but it is not.  This is about respect, and how men react to seeing men they respect being treated with contempt.  There is a natural revulsion to this, not unlike the natural revulsion to a man complaining that life isn’t “fair”.

This entry was posted in Disrespecting Respectability, Dr. Helen, Miserliness, The only real man in the room, Traditional Conservatives, Weak men screwing feminism up. Bookmark the permalink.

186 Responses to Who cares?

  1. Anchorman says:

    Keep in mind, the first response to the issue of respect will be:

    Respect is earned, not given

    The culture warriors do not think taking the role of father/husband earns respect because they (and much of our culture) have seen it so thoroughly devalued and disrespected over the decades. There is no recognition of the tremendous responsibility shouldered when accepting those roles.

    The bar has been more than moved. It’s been replaced with supplication.

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  4. Easttexasfatboy says:

    Indifference is really hard to change. Men are becoming that way because it is obvious that we’re not welcome. That’s just how it is. Take a close look, gents……this is how civilization dies.

  5. joshtheaspie says:

    And why should I care that it’s dying? I don’t remember a time when it was worth working to save.

    You’ve got a few elites, and a bunch of women reaping the benefit of labor, and the rest of the guys are stolen from, on their own, or at the fringes of society just tangentially associated with it.

    Meh.

  6. joshtheaspie says:

    Or, as Tucker puts it…. “Who cares?”

  7. Mark H. says:

    Once the issue of respecting men is raised, I always hear a song in my head. It comes from the pre-sexual revolution 60’s musical “How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying”. The song is “Happy to Keep His Dinner Warm”, and the line (sung by the woman looking at her prospective husband) is:

    “Oh, to be loved by a man I respect,
    To bask in the glow of his perfectly understandable neglect.”

    Countercultural even then…

  8. m11nine says:

    Or, as Hillary R. Clinton recently said, “What difference, at this point, does it make?”

  9. Easttexasfatboy says:

    I wasn’t advocating a cure, folks. I feel like an ancient Roman who has finally realized that the Barbarians are winning. Successful societies produce abundant healthy children. They certainly don’t kill them.

    Nope, I’m indifferent. I can’t change other folks. Prayer certainly helps.

  10. Anchorman says:

    To answer the question, “Who cares?” or, more precisely, “Why should I care?”

    I suggest we stop thinking about pushing change to save “civilization” and keep focus on God’s Plan for us. God doesn’t want us to shrug. He’s called us to serve Him, to worship Him, to fulfill His Plan for our lives. They two can be linked, but we need to remain faithful to our role. Don’t let the pressures, frustrations, and temptations of the world distract you from God’s plan for you.

    Start your work on rock. God will lead you and will never abandon you.

  11. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Demanding that men earn respect wouldn’t be so bad — if society also demanded that women earn respect. That society recognize that sluts are unworthy of respect. That a woman must be chaste before marriage. That toward her husband, a wife must be respectful, pleasant, helpful, attentive, dutiful, of clean hygiene, healthful eating habits, dressed in modest yet feminine clothes, and obedient.

    Indeed, upon seeing such a woman, most men will “man up” without being asked.

  12. August says:

    Tough attitude to get rid of. It may be an evolutionary instinct which can only be counteracted by intelligence and/or the artificiality of modern life consistently beating you down until you get it.

  13. Patrick says:

    There’s a baseline level of respect and dignity men deserve by default, just because they’re men. All men used to get some, even if it was just in the form of formulaic social niceties. Trying to make men struggle and compete for that basic level is like trying to make them gladiators fighting to the death for a baseline level of liberty. Not a lot of men are going to sign up for that when they can just walk away.

  14. Anchorman says:

    There’s a baseline level of respect and dignity men deserve by default, just because they’re men.

    Good point.

  15. zodak says:

    tucker just doesn’t get it. he lies to every man listening that ‘power comes from responsibility’ but instead those responsible men are not respected, they are seen as powerless doormats. and the ones who are able to somehow leverage their responsibility to not be perceived as betachumps are instead criticized as “privileged.”

  16. thedeti says:

    “The culture warriors do not think taking the role of father/husband earns respect because they (and much of our culture) have seen it so thoroughly devalued and disrespected over the decades.”

    I think the role of husband/father doesn’t “earn respect” to most paleoconservatives, well, conservatives of pretty much every stripe, because it was just what every man was supposed to do. You grew up, you got a job, you got married (because it was the only legitimate avenue to sex), you had kids. You just did these things, every man did, or was supposed to. It was considered the bare minimum, the bare entry level “man thing” to do – get married, father kids.

  17. PokeSalad says:

    Why would women worry about giving respect to men, when the Almighty Government Daddy is right there to insulate them from any and all consequences?

  18. thedeti says:

    masculinity and male power derive from responsibility. You don’t embrace responsibility, you have no power

    No. He’s got it pretty much backwards. Responsibility derives from masculinity and male power. Males who are not masculine and who have no power generally aren’t given responsibilities. Unmasculine, wimpy, cowardly men do not do well when given responsibilities.

    First a man must be masculine and exert power; then, and only then, will he be given responsibility (and the authority that accompanies it).

  19. Brad says:

    This respect vs fairness idea is very interesting. How would you suggest those of us doing activism on men rights use this frame? The human rights frame is established in Western culture – but I think you’re right that if you don’t respect men, you won’t worry about their rights. If we created greater respect for men, legal changes and accommodations would follow. How would you frame this and pitch respect to a society that doesn’t care? How do you get respect from people who hate you?

  20. Brad says:

    Also – this respect need is at the root of many white identitarian movements too.

  21. patriarchal landmine says:

    this diseased civilization has already put a million boys into the meat grinder, just because they had the temerity to be born male.

    I want to earn the disrespect of a society that thinks it’s ok to do this to the innocent.

  22. Anchorman says:

    I want to earn the disrespect of a society that thinks it’s ok to do this to the innocent.

    Good news, they’re giving that away as a door prize.

  23. Markus S. says:

    At this point in time, the real measure of responsibility in a man is not shown by his acquiescence to a fundamentally corrupt system, but his will to subvert it.

  24. Tucker answers his own question. The fact is no one actually cares about men assuming, much less aptly engaging, his conventional idea of what “responsibility” really entails.

    Tucker, like most trad-con pundits is ego-invested in the old set of books and all that he believes men should be rewarded for by playing by a social rule set that’s been replaced with a second set of books – a rules set defined by a feminine primary social order. So the expectation is for men to play by the old rule set, the one that benefitted men in a pre-sexual revolution social order, to attain respect, but to also live up to the expectations and entitlements of the second set of books when convenient to the feminine imperative.

    http://therationalmale.com/2014/01/14/the-second-set-of-books/

    Tucker wants men to be Blue Pill Alphas:

    The Blue Pill Alpha

    I’m making this distinction because there is school of thought that being blue pill (unaware of one’s conditioning) necessitates him being more Beta. To be sure, feminine-primary conditioning would raise a boy into a more feminine-pliable man – ready to serve as the good Beta provider when a woman’s SMV declines and she’s less able to compete with her younger sexual competitors.

    However, there exist more Alpha Men also conditioned to be servants of the Feminine Imperative. These men make for some of the most self-evincing White Knights you’ll ever meet and are usually the first men to “defend the honor” of the feminine and women for whom they lack a real awareness of. Binary absolutism and an upbringing steeped in feminization makes for a potent sense of self-righteousness. Blue pill Alphas live for the opportunity to defend everything their conditioning has taught them. To the blue pill Alpha all women are victims by default, all women share a common historic suffrage and any man (his sexual competitors) critical of the feminine are simply an opportunity to prove his worth to any woman in earshot who might at all find his zealousness attractive.

  25. enrique says:

    I don’t know if we have reached “peak PC” (in all its various forms), and I suspect we haven’t quite yet, but this post is a bit symmetrical in my view to the whole Race Industrial Complex. Whether it be Gender or Race, I am not sure why any normal person is giving zero #%@! what some Social Justice Creep thinks of them.

    Granted, if you post weird stuff on Facebook and you therefore get witch hunted by your employer later, that’s different–no one should be too overt or careless. And I stipulate that one’s public/private life being dissected is growing and social networking and expression is a major part of many peoples’ lives, but in every day life…meh. Who cares, and showing you don’t care (as in , en masse) is the first step to recovery.

    If you encounter this stuff one-on-one, the basic response should be, depending on the “man up” argument they make, “well, you’re a chump..you’re free to do those things” or “well, you’re stupid”. Most of those guys like Cucker Carlson are married and most likely unhappy, and you can always point that out to them.

    Although I am not Christian, I have several friends who are, one of whom is the big anti-porn, man-up, men need to stop hurting women with all their porn watching types…he even recruits and runs a help group at his church for it (most of the men in it, he confided are SINGLE, never married types, LOL, WTF?). He also disposes lots of White Knight philosophy and advice to me whenever the topic comes up. I simply started doubling down on him with all of it, taking him increasingly into the deep end of a pool of his own making (“Agreed, I mean, even if your wife wanted NO sex with you for say, 10 years..THAT IS HER RIGHT!…servant-leadership bro!”) he continued, albeit uncomfortably, to agree with me no matter how ridiculous I got with it, as long I always supported the feminine imperative.

    Since SJCreeps have no sense of proportionality and are not rational, they find themselves FORCED to continually debase themselves further based upon their own criteria. I got him to agree to everything but making himself a doormat before he really understood who pathetic he was.

  26. Dalrock says:

    @Brad

    This respect vs fairness idea is very interesting. How would you suggest those of us doing activism on men rights use this frame? The human rights frame is established in Western culture – but I think you’re right that if you don’t respect men, you won’t worry about their rights. If we created greater respect for men, legal changes and accommodations would follow. How would you frame this and pitch respect to a society that doesn’t care? How do you get respect from people who hate you?

    I see (at least) two stages to this. Overcoming “who cares?” generally starts by convincing the apathetic that something they value is at risk. Dr. Helen has succeeded at convincing a large swath of people that men are moving away from marriage. Because of this, they at least care enough to loudly complain “Who cares! They need to marry anyway!”

    The second stage is convincing the respect miser to stop being miserly. The message of Carlson’s response is not “The system is a disgrace, yet those men who marry anyway understanding the risks have my deep respect.” The message is “Other men should be real men like I am. Too bad I’m the only one!” I don’t know of an effective way to persuade a dedicated miser not to be a miser, but what you can do is smoke out their stance for the counterfeit that it is. Right now they are posturing as a defender of the culture and a brave leader of men, when in reality they are just looking out for number one and supplicating to every woman who they think will listen. Calling them out likely won’t convert them, but it should make the reality clear to others. At the very least it will make this absurd posture less comfortable. There will also be some men who aren’t on the extremes who once they see how ugly this is will see the problem with being miserly with respect. So you probably can’t persuade Carlson to give up his self declared title of the only real man in the room, but you can at least expose him, and very possibly convince others to step back from the miserliness.

  27. cynthia says:

    @joshtheaspie

    And why should I care that it’s dying? I don’t remember a time when it was worth working to save.

    If this comes crashing down, we all go with it. The systems that allow this present indifference (on both the male and female side of the equation) evaporate. We all have to answer to reality at some point, and the longer this goes on for, the worse that reality will be.

    We won’t just vanish along with our culture; something (likely, violent Islam or hegemonic China) will step in to fill the void we’ve made for ourselves. Or the power goes off and people just start dying. I’m not particularly keen on either. It doesn’t benefit anybody. The best option is restoration of our own traditional values.

    And lest somebody be tempted to dismiss that because I’m a woman, I fully believe that women need to sacrifice a good bit of this “progress” in order to make that happen. We won’t like it, but then, like the women in Germany are finding out, a little benevolent sexism from our own men is far preferable to the conditions that others would subject us to.

  28. Hawk&Rock says:

    “If this comes crashing down, we all go with it.”

    So be it. I’m ready to go. I’ll defend myself and my children and my friends. I won’t lift a finger to help a system that at its best was inimical to the well-being of my family and at its worst did everything it could to destroy me. Let it burn and let a worthy remnent rise from the ashes.

    … Or not. Don’t much give a f anymore….

  29. thedeti says:

    “The message [from Tucker Carlson and other conservatives] is “Other men should be real men like I am. Too bad I’m the only one!””

    And therein lies one of the similarities between today’s conservatives and liberals, both of whom make up the upper-middle-class and up power elite. They all believe the solution to societal problems requires everyone to just act like them and be like them — just grow up, man up, get a job that pays well into six figures, just find a good woman from a good background who thinks and acts just like you do, and just have kids and just raise them to do what you did.

    The problem is that a growing number of men don’t have the skill set to do any of that. A growing number of men don’t have the skills, resources or money of the upper middle class. And if they try to do what Carlson tells them to do, they’ll fail — because they don’t have the knowhow, the wherewithal, or the money. Today’s society penalizes all but the wealthiest and most powerful who try. And folks like Carlson say “eh, who cares, DO IT ANYWAY.”

  30. The Question says:

    “This is about respect, and how men react to seeing men they respect being treated with contempt.”

    It’s akin to people telling men to stand up so they can get kicked between the legs and screaming at them for not doing so because “that’s what men do,” while insisting that they are not trying to kick them between the legs even as they do it to every single man who stands up.

  31. PokeSalad says:

    If this comes crashing down, we all go with it. The systems that allow this present indifference (on both the male and female side of the equation) evaporate. We all have to answer to reality at some point, and the longer this goes on for, the worse that reality will be.

    Who is this “we?”, Kemo Sabe? You presume far too much upon the investment of men in this “system.” By the way, its not indifference, its clear hostility.

    Women have always banked on the assumption that, no matter how bad it gets, a reliable majority (or plurality) of men will still put their shoulder to the wheel and keep the “systems” going. This assumption is now in serious danger, and perceptive women (the few that are out there) sense this and are getting worried. They know, in their gut, that that “reality,” in reality, will be much worse for women than it will be for men.

    A small foreshadowing of this can be seen right now in Cologne and elsewhere in Europe….where hundreds of women were sexually assaulted and….guess what…the Govt Daddy who was supposed to defend them…..did nothing. That’s your “reality.”…..one that a woman invited in with open arms, by the way.

  32. The Question says:

    So what happens when the shaming by the SoCons and TradCons like this goes nowhere, men continue not to get married, and the number of unmarried women piles up into a voting bloc? What happens when the outcry of “men need to man up!” reaches its real apex?

    If this is how they behave when 90 percent of women marry by age 40, what happens if it drops to 70 or God forbid 60 percent?

    I don’t see reforms happening unless they are compelled by reality. There is simply too much ego-investment in the current narrative in which it is weak men screwing feminism. If this is the reaction men like Carlson give to the current arrangement, nothing will persuade them otherwise if it gets uglier.

  33. cynthia says:

    I’ll defend myself and my children and my friends. I won’t lift a finger to help a system that at its best was inimical to the well-being of my family and at its worst did everything it could to destroy me

    That attitude might be practical for the zombie apocalypse, but short of total collapse, we’re still inextricably dependent on society at large. How do we protect our children from the environment outside our homes? Not to sound hyperbolic, but the groups itching for supremacy today have a long track record of rape, enslavment and all-around subjugation of those they conquer. They aren’t going to leave your children alone; they aren’t going to let you protect them.

    Our current corrupt government may not be worth defending, but Western civilization is. This isn’t about continuing to prop up the status quo but defending what is worth defending in our culture and returning it to political relevance.

  34. Damn Crackers says:

    Modern Western society/culture can be described as one of denature/devalue:

    Citizenship means less than it did before –
    Education means less than it did before –
    Fatherhood/Being a husband means less than it did before –
    The currency is valued less that it did before –

    Video games, porn, drugs, single men are the symptoms-not the cause-of the decline of the West.

  35. cynthia says:

    @pokesalad

    If you read the post again, I did in fact reference my concern about what’s happening in Europe. Women (and liberal left-wing types) absolutely need to own up to what they’re bringing down on us.

    As far as who “we” is, it’s all of us. If, say, continuing US weakness invites an attack that takes down a large swath of the power grid, are you presuming that those who didn’t vote in that weak president/congress won’t suffer right along with everyone else? If Europe endures widespread invasion, do you think boys and men will be left alone and only feminist women will be affected? Just as we see time and time again with civil and international wars, this will sweep up everything in its path.

    Our current system enables indifference and outright anger. Not just the expression of that antipathy, but it’s very existence. If things drastically change, none of us are going to have the luxury of not caring. I can appreciate the sentiment of not being concerned about what happens to the wider world, but at the very least, the water no longer working or violent gangs in the streets does still have an impact on your life.

  36. feeriker says:

    If this comes crashing down, we all go with it.

    To echo H&R, so be it. Contrary to the popular Dispensationalist assertion, I don’t believe that Jesus promised any of us that the end times would be pleasant for those who follow Him or that we will be spared its agonies.

    The systems that allow this present indifference (on both the male and female side of the equation) evaporate. We all have to answer to reality at some point, and the longer this goes on for, the worse that reality will be.

    If mankind has demonstrated nothing else over the course of his existence, it is that the ONLY way he ever changes his destructive, foolish, and sinful ways is through extreme adversity, usually of his own making, that nearly destroys him. Alas, sometimes even that isn’t enough to induce change. Either way, history tells us that the only hope for lasting change is for reality to become as ugly and insufferable as possible.

    We won’t just vanish along with our culture; something (likely, violent Islam or hegemonic China) will step in to fill the void we’ve made for ourselves. Or the power goes off and people just start dying. I’m not particularly keen on either. It doesn’t benefit anybody. The best option is restoration of our own traditional values.

    Again, so be it, and also again, if history teaches us anything (and obviously very few people learn from it), it is that only a complete reset through extreme destruction offers even a remote hope of lasting change. Humans simply aren’t programmed to fudamentally change themselves except through life-threatening adversity. Sure, those of us who are Christ followers don’t generally need that kind of motivation, but the wider world in which we exist does. If we are to fill any role in the dystopian future, it is to serve as examples and lead others to the light.

  37. thedeti says:

    @ The Question:

    “So what happens when the shaming by the SoCons and TradCons like this goes nowhere, men continue not to get married, and the number of unmarried women piles up into a voting bloc? What happens when the outcry of “men need to man up!” reaches its real apex?

    “If this is how they behave when 90 percent of women marry by age 40, what happens if it drops to 70 or God forbid 60 percent?”

    This is all happening quite slowly in historical terms. It’s a bit faster than historical trends have happened in decades and centuries past, but it’s not a terribly rapid shift. For example, the gay marriage question shifted almost completely in the span of 10 years. That’s extraordinarily rapid in historical terms. But it’s almost imperceptibly slow when viewed in real time.

    That’s why men avoiding marriage isn’t really viewed as a problem. It’s happening slowly and is percolating up. It’s viewed as a problem among white men of middle class and down (“white trash”), and black and Hispanic men. Upper middle class and up men (the power elite, professional men and wealthy men) still eventually marry, and those marriages stay together at high rates. The reasons for those marriages staying together has little to do with sexual or romantic attraction; but much more to do with the pragmatic, practical concerns of raising children, giving kids opportunity, and creating, preserving and marshaling material resources for their own benefit and protection.

    And it’s going to continue happening quite slowly. We won’t get to 70% or 60% of women not marrying by age 40, for about another 20 to 50 years. If a woman wants to marry, she can get that done, easy peasy. If she wants to marry at 35 or 38 or past 40, she can still get that done. This idea of women being unable to marry past 30 is a revenge fantasy that just isn’t true and just will not come to pass.

    “I don’t see reforms happening unless they are compelled by reality. There is simply too much ego-investment in the current narrative in which it is weak men screwing feminism. If this is the reaction men like Carlson give to the current arrangement, nothing will persuade them otherwise if it gets uglier.”

    It will get uglier, lots uglier, but the drumbeat from conservatives and tradcons will get louder, faster and more shrill. It is all happening quite slowly. That’s why there’s not much of a vocal panic, at least not yet.

  38. Darwinian Arminian says:

    If Carlson respected honorable men, he would be disturbed to see them treated with contempt, especially in a such a coordinated way.

    The issue here is that the respect Dalrock is writing about is not what Tucker Carlson thinks respects is — or should be. Consider this exchange he has with Dr. Helen in the first video:

    Carlson: You don’t become a man until you take responsibility.

    Smith: What man would take such a raw deal? I don’t consider that a man.

    Carlson: Well, actually, it’s not a raw deal. You derive deep satisfaction as a man by taking responsibility for other people. That’s the only place you get deep satisfaction.

    Notice how narrowly he’s defining the term here. For him, respect is not about he shows men honor for noble behaviors. Respect is about how men should feel inside for performing those behaviors. Who cares if living responsibly only earns you sneers, or makes you an easy target for cheats and fraudsters? A truly respectable man should care about the right thing, not what it gets him!

    Tucker Carlson, in short, wants virtue to be its own reward.

    And when you get right down to it . . . that’s a pretty good deal for him, and also for a lot of others who will try to sell men on the idea of responsibility for its own sake. It allows them to demand much from the men while asking very little from themselves in exchange.

  39. cynthia says:

    @feeriker

    only a complete reset through extreme destruction offers even a remote hope of lasting change.

    I do agree with this. Call me naive, but I desperately want us to fix things before they get to the point where this is necessary, but sadly, we might be past it now. It might take the Muslims raping their way across Europe for the West to remember itself and take action.

    It might be better in the long run, but I wish we could do this without suffering such catastrophe and loss of life. It makes me incredibly angry, how blind people have been to the long term effects of our cultural decay.

  40. “The message [from Tucker Carlson and other conservatives] is “Other men should be real men like I am. Too bad I’m the only one!””

    This is classic Beta signaling of Relational Equity. It’s also a signal of an investment in the old set of books and the expectation to be rewarded for his relational fitness.

  41. The Question says:

    @ thedeti

    What I’m wondering is if we will see the rise in significant numbers of a type of man who can neither fulfill the Alpha fux nor the Beta bux aspect of a woman’s hypergamous strategy and the implications this has for society and culture. This type is not Alpha “enough” to provide the fux, but he doesn’t have the money to provide the bux, either, or he’s not the Alpha she wants, but he refuses to provide the bux because he knows what the score is.

    For women looking to marry, there has to be a beta provider at the end of the carousal ride, but what happens when she hops off and finds that the men are either too poor or too informed about the current setup to marry her and no amount of shaming will change that?

    It’s unlikely because the FI controls the education system and ensures there will be willing betas eager to prove their manhood, but I think these are the men who would get sent to the camps if it was decided they posed a serious threat to the FI, in order to intimidate the rest of men of the same stripe into playing by the old rules. The camp wardens, of course, will be the TradCons and SoCons insisting that it wouldn’t be necessary if these men would just “man up and marry those sluts!”

  42. Hawk&Rock says:

    “A small foreshadowing of this can be seen right now in Cologne and elsewhere in Europe….where hundreds of women were sexually assaulted and….guess what…the Govt Daddy who was supposed to defend them…..did nothing. That’s your “reality.”…..one that a woman invited in with open arms, by the way.”

    Worse than “did nothing.” The government worked actively to cover it up for as long as they could. LOL. Bad daddy….

    Things that can’t go on forever won’t. Societies that don’t deserve to survive shouldn’t.

    Western civilization in 2016 exists exactly NOWHERE except in the minds of the remnant I mentioned in my earlier post. This is reality. Wake up to it.

    Over 50 million babies murdered in the last 40 years in the United States alone. Tens of millions more in the countries that round out your “western civilization”. The family decimated by no fault divorce. Constantly immersed in the filth that pours out of the high def sewer pipe in your living room.

    Which part of that fills you with an urge to defend it?

    Let God’s will be done. I will not lift a finger to defend an evil system that at best couldn’t give a shit about me and at worst wants me dead.

  43. Sean says:

    I don’t believe that Jesus promised any of us that the end times would be pleasant for those who follow Him or that we will be spared its agonies.

    Indeed, neither the end times nor the current times were ever meant to be pleasant for those of us who follow Him. Ask Stephen, for instance. Paul? I believe Jesus even said something to that effect.

    Matt 10:22 and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

  44. Anchorman says:

    @The Question: What I’m wondering is if we will see the rise in significant numbers of a type of man who can neither fulfill the Alpha fux nor the Beta bux aspect of a woman’s hypergamous strategy and the implications this has for society and culture.

    See: Japan. Grass eaters.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/27/japan-grass-eaters-salaryman-macho

  45. Anchorman says:

    @H&R: Over 50 million babies murdered in the last 40 years in the United States alone.

    Something to keep in mind when people lament the West’s declining birthrate as a reason for mass immigration.

  46. Kirk Forlatt says:

    Good point, thedeti. And churchy men are identical. Holiness = everyone agreeing with them and imitating them.

  47. enrique says:

    thedeti: Whew, you think it’s gonna take 20-50 years for those percentages to be reached? I could see 70 percent of AMERICA not being married by 40, within 5-10 years. Especially as the US becomes less White (Western European). I think marriage will be a novelty (if it isn’t already) for most folks within 10 years. Just as from 2001 to today our culture has changed DRAMATICALLY, especially with gay marriage and all that…I think 2025 or so, is a fair death date for marriage.

  48. quigboo says:

    Anyone have any actual stats on jobs being sabotaged because of non-PC views?

    A lot of this shit is smoke-and-mirrors. Yes, they can stab you in the back and make things hard for you, I’ve had that happen to me quite a few times. Just keep living your life – it doesn’t take much to have a good one.

    In the greater scheme of things this issue is very important. I don’t think I have ever seen a real, decent relationship in my entire life. My solution would be to 1) cut-ties with the corrupted. If you can’t (family), minimize interaction. 2) Seek financial independence. 3) Don’t let others take advantage of your good nature. 4) Spread the word to men who will listen – we’re the ones who really get shit done anyways. Let the rabble languish in their mediocre, meaningless lives. They all start to eat themselves and each-other anyways. 5) If you’re feeling malicious, telling the brutal truth to these types produces an effect like a vampire being hit by sunlight. Quite amusing.

    It can be painful when you realize that you are surrounded by irrational pussies, but I usually tell the truth now if it comes up and hammer them with logic until they stop talking. Worse-case scenario is they get angry and leave, but they can’t really do anything unless you put yourself in a vulnerable position.

  49. cynthia says:

    @HawkandRock

    I’m not denying that the rot is deep and permeates almost everything. But my question remains; when our society is gone and something worse takes its place, are you prepared for what happens to you on a personal level? What becomes of you, as an individual, if the lights go out?

    John Stewart Mill has a wonderful quote about what becomes of those who are roused by nothing but concern for their own personal safety. I cannot understand a mindset in which not even personal interest can provoke an individual to action.

    I know I don’t understand fully what you’ve been through to bring you to where you are today, but if it’s not enough to drive you to suicide, then there must be something that keeps you going. I can’t believe anyone is so cynical as to have nothing worth protecting in their lives.

  50. The Question says:

    @ Anchorman

    I’ve been reading about that for a while, and what’s interesting is that from what I’ve seen there isn’t a moral outcry or indignation against them by society or the government. It’s acknowledged, but there’s no shaming for it or calls for them to “man up,” unless I keep missing it.

    I think also the difference is that many men here in the United States opt out not because they don’t like women but because of the intense hostility by society and culture to men and marriage. That doesn’t seem to be the case with Japanese grass eaters. They’re just not interested in women for whatever reason. Or do they have similar laws in place?

    The U.S. has a setup that necessitates men marrying and having kids. Without it, there’s no divorce, no child support, no alimony. Whole industries fall apart without this dating-engagement-wedding-marriage-kids-divorce process. The social and cultural expectations are also different, I think.

  51. thedeti says:

    @ The Question:

    “What I’m wondering is if we will see the rise in significant numbers of a type of man who can neither fulfill the Alpha fux nor the Beta bux aspect of a woman’s hypergamous strategy and the implications this has for society and culture. This type is not Alpha “enough” to provide the fux, but he doesn’t have the money to provide the bux, either, or he’s not the Alpha she wants, but he refuses to provide the bux because he knows what the score is.

    “For women looking to marry, there has to be a beta provider at the end of the carousal ride, but what happens when she hops off and finds that the men are either too poor or too informed about the current setup to marry her and no amount of shaming will change that?”

    Dalrock has done lots of posts on this. The ones I can think of are

    40 Years of Ultimatums
    Never Marrieds Piling Up
    More Grim News for Carousellers Hoping to Jump at the Last Minute

    I think those are the titles.

    The answer to the question is yes, the trends are that there will be a significant rise in numbers of men who aren’t AF nor BB. They could be BBs but choose not to marry. I think these guys will get into relationships and flings here and there, catch as catch can, but they increasingly will refuse legal marriage. Most of these men will be the unattractive 70% or so. They’re not attractive enough to get and hold the interest of a woman long term.

    There will be lots of responses to this. The law will catch up to this and reinstitute common law marriage. There will be more and more legal provisions requiring men to provide financial support to women they live with, then women they have sex with. It’ll likely get to a point where when a man breaks up with a woman he was screwing, he’ll have to pay her some form of legal damages that’ll look like alimony for a few months.

  52. The Question says:

    @ thedeti

    “There will be lots of responses to this. The law will catch up to this and reinstitute common law marriage. There will be more and more legal provisions requiring men to provide financial support to women they live with, then women they have sex with. It’ll likely get to a point where when a man breaks up with a woman he was screwing, he’ll have to pay her some form of legal damages that’ll look like alimony for a few months.”

    I’m seeing it go in that direction, too.

  53. Sean says:

    @cynthia

    I’m not denying that the rot is deep and permeates almost everything. But my question remains; when our society is gone and something worse takes its place, are you prepared for what happens to you on a personal level? What becomes of you, as an individual, if the lights go out?

    I’ll take the Christian reponse on this one. Those of us that follow Him don’t really care what happens to the world other than the elect becoming Saved. We’re in it not of it. Christians have been through everything that’s transpired in this world: Nero, Dometian, 8th Century Islam, England’s and Scotland’s attempted purging of the Reformers, etc. There is nothing new under the sun. Should society collapse, we’ll follow Him. Should society keep going, we’ll follow Him… although with fewer deaths.

  54. Hawk&Rock says:

    I’ve already told you the ONLY thing that keeps me going — my children. I have prepared and continue to prepare myself and my children to the extent that I can for a time when “the lights go out.” I’m expecting it to be pretty damn terrible and I still say so be it.

    Moreover, I work in a high prestige job and while not a top 1% er am easily a top 10%er. That should worry TPTB because if I’m in the F it camp, how many of the guys that are hurting far worse can be called on to sacrifice to “keep the lights on?” Less than you hope I’m quite sure if it.

    I get it. You’re unnerved. I would be too if I were a woman because deep down you know that if the S really does ever hit the fan, you are going to be in serious trouble unless you have a strong man by your side. I hope if we get to that point that you do.

    Watch and pray and trust in God. Never support evil not even to keep breathing.

  55. Anchorman says:

    I’ll cosign H&R’s post, word for word. I could’ve written it.

  56. paddy says:

    A shower-thought I had, that I would be happy to see a post on, concerns Jesus’ words when asked about marriage.

    If marriage does not survive past death and into resurrection, then, from a Christian perspective, it maybe has a little less worth than what TradCons believe…?

    23The same day came to him the Sadducees, who say that there is no resurrection, and asked Him, 24Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. 25Now there were with us seven brethren; and the first, when he had married a wife, died {deceased}, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother; 26Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. 27And last of all the woman died also. 28Therefore, in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? For they all had her. 29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like {as} the angels of God in heaven. 31But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. 33And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at His doctrine.

  57. paddy says:

    Oops, Matthew Chapter 22, verses 23-33, above.

  58. S2C says:

    Carlson may be correct. I don’t give a shit about cuckservatives telling me to man up- but I did man up. I say the uncomfortable things to my wife, like- no, I’m not changing the diaper. You’re welcome for fixing the car. No, women shouldn’t vote and here is why.

    At the same time, I compliment her on being a mother, a great cook, etc. This is how I get respect- from the people that matter to me. If all men did this, like really grew up and became men, deserving of respect and only caring about respect from the people that love them, then we would fix this problem.

  59. thedeti says:

    @ The Question:

    “I’m seeing it go in that direction, too.”

    Yeah. What’s going to happen is that men will simply be forced to pay money. The law will find ways to make men pay, one way or another, for the privilege of having sex with women. If you had sex with her and she wanted a relationship, you have to pay some damages. If you were in a relationship with her for 6 months and you ended it, and she was heartbroken, you have to pay her some damage money, some “palimony”, for a month or two. If you were living with her and you broke it off, you have to pay her some palimony for maybe 6 months.

    Men are not going to get out without paying. They will always be made to pay.

  60. PokeSalad says:

    Yeah. What’s going to happen is that men will simply be forced to pay money. The law will find ways to make men pay, one way or another, for the privilege of having sex with women.

    Charlie Sheen on hookers: “You don’t pay them for sex….you pay them to leave.”

  61. The Question says:

    @ thedeti

    “Men are not going to get out without paying. They will always be made to pay.”

    Nice. If the manosphere had their own Hallmark-style cards, this would be inside the “Sorry for your divorce” card.

  62. thedeti says:

    One place you’re seeing this rapid response is in “affirmative consent” laws, like in California. Men in the California college/university system must get “affirmative consent” for sexual contact, and it must be explicit consent.

    Men are responding to this by surreptitiously videotaping their sexual encounters, because they know the only way they’ll ever be able to prove they didn’t rape their partners is with video.

    There are now moves afoot to outlaw nonconsensual video of sexual encounters.

    So… men are being forced to get affirmative consent, and then are being told they will never ever be able to prove they got that consent through competent evidence. Men are being told to comply with the law but then are being stripped of ways to prove their compliance.

  63. PokeSalad says:

    I can’t believe anyone is so cynical as to have nothing worth protecting in their lives.

    Don’t conflate “defending one’s own/me and mine” with “defending the system.” They can be, and are increasingly becoming, distinct entities.

  64. Anon says:

    Tucker Carlson himself had to deal with a false rape accusation years before this clip. If the idjit could not learn then, he never will. Such manginas are too far gone…

  65. The Question says:

    @ thedeti

    “So… men are being forced to get affirmative consent, and then are being told they will never ever be able to prove they got that consent through competent evidence. Men are being told to comply with the law but then are being stripped of ways to prove their compliance.”

    This sounds twisted, but I wonder if some men will use the whole “affirmative consent” thing to toy with girls as a way of creating dread while playing the whole thing off as a joke. (Are you sure you consent? I’m not sure…I think I need to leave; wouldn’t want you to wake up tomorrow and realize you were assaulted).

  66. Pingback: Who cares? | Reaction Times

  67. The Question says:

    @ Anon

    Dennis Prager got divorced twice if I’m not mistaken and still tells young men to charge into no man’s land in the Somme so they too can enjoy all the wonderful experiences that come with having the woman who made a vow to you and God she would be with you forever tell you “I’m leaving you and taking you for everything you’ve got because I’m not haaaapppy.”

    Aaron Clarey deserves the manosphere medal of honor for his video taking Prager to task for it.

  68. jack says:

    Turn it around on them – does a wife have to earn the husband’s respect?

    If he does not respect her, is it her fault? Or his?

  69. Anon says:

    thedeti,

    You just did these things, every man did, or was supposed to.

    There were similar things a woman ‘had to do’, but these cuckservative losers don’t want to hold women to anything. Women have abandoned all of their obligations to society, with relatively few women making any net contribution to society relative to resources consumed. Cuckservatives are phonies since they think they can lift all obligations from women by simply piling twice as many requirements onto men.

  70. cynthia says:

    @Hawk

    You can’t do anything for your kids that won’t be negated by the outside world. None of us will be able to protect our kids in the midst of a large-scale collapse. Not on our own, as atomized individuals who believe in nothing and cannot trust each other against a cohesive, ideologically-motivated enemy. At some point, personal survival is tied to the survival of a collective.

    And yeah, what’s coming scares me. It’s scared me since college. A woman would have to be an idiot not to be scared. I have absolutely no illusions about what would happen to me or my female family members. But it’d be the height of selfishness not to care about men in all of this. Women get raped and enslaved, while men are killed. I’d rather see my niece in a burka than my brother with his brains on the floor.

  71. @Cynthia

    Why so afraid of death? Doesn’t your god tell you to only fear Him? Isn’t “Thou shalt have no other gods before me the first commandment?

    You disserve your false god of Islam. Pray to Ishtar, perhaps your burka can save you, bow to Mecca.

  72. Easttexasfatboy says:

    Cynthia, let me spell it out for you……what it will take for men to change is something rather unthinkable…..public whipping and facial branding for ALL known feminists. That’s happened in the past, when the choice was to kill the rebellious women, or enslave them. Horrible, isn’t it?

    Try this on for size…….things start getting out of hand……you have enough supplies for yours, but then a feminist friend of your wife shows up……see, you know she’s got a big mouth. She wants to feed other women. What would I do? Take her out to the back pasture with a shovel.

  73. Anon says:

    cynthia,

    A woman would have to be an idiot not to be scared.

    Thanks for admitting that about 99% of women are idiots. The fact that the governments of Western nations go out of their way to import the most radical, violent, and unassimillable immigrants (not some peaceful, educated Chinese, Indians, or Filipinos, mind you) of all is explicitly because women have no objection to this.

    Read this article for an example of how women brought this on themselves :
    http://www.feministcurrent.com/2016/01/07/its-time-to-consider-a-curfew-for-men/

    It takes a lot of unfairness, beratement, and abuse for men to reach a point where they literally don’t care about women facing the consequences of their own inherent stupidity, but we have reached that point.

  74. RC says:

    @Cynthia,

    You have very little imagination if you think that parenting makes no difference in a SHTF scenario. Quite to the contrary, it can be what makes the entire difference. And to see a niece in a burka instead of a brother dead? Eternal death > moral death.

  75. Liftolutions says:

    There’s glimpses of hope on the horizon. The younger generation is much more exposed to fitness trends – Crossfit, P90X, what have you, due to the internet. Now you can argue that benefit negate by all the other BS, like the abundance of fast food and sedentary desk jobs.

    I’ve noticed people who exercise regularly tend to just be more likeable people overall. Dedicated, driven, those qualities exist in anyone who make mental/physical fitness a focal point in life. Hopefully, more people hopping onto the fitness bandwagon will lead to a less sissified society

  76. hoellenhund2 says:

    If this comes crashing down, we all go with it.

    It’s not like there are many options on the table for the average man. If he tries to fight the system, he’ll turn himself into a target and go down. If he lives to see its collapse, he’ll probably also go down. The difference is that the former is certain, whereas the latter is only a possibility at some unknown future moment.

    We won’t just vanish along with our culture; something (likely, violent Islam or hegemonic China) will step in to fill the void we’ve made for ourselves.

    There’s no chance of that happening. The Chinese real estate bubble is the largest in human history, and when it bursts, it will primarily affect a people in the worst imaginable demographic situation, contaminated by industrial pollution on an unimaginable scale, and robbed of its cultural heritage through Maoist culture war. China will never be a world hegemon, and doesn’t even have a historical record of being one. Not to mention that it’s already a hypergamous hellhole of celibate bachelors and ageing spinsters. The land of Islam consists of failed states facing starvation, civil war and demographic implosion. And Islam is already being corrupted by feminism. If the American economy goes into depression, the entire world will be dragged along.

    Or the power goes off and people just start dying. I’m not particularly keen on either. It doesn’t benefit anybody.

    The primary victims of an economic collapse would be overweight people on welfare, pencil-dicked hipsters and college-educated tramps without marketable skills. To keep them is no benefit, to destroy them is no loss, as the Khmer Rogue would say.

    The best option is restoration of our own traditional values.

    Lady, have you ever heard of any civilization successfully regenerating itself on purpose? It has never happened. There are never paths in history leading backwards. Civilizations aren’t restored, they adapt or perish. Not to mention the simple fact that traditional values will never be normalized in a world of reliable contraception and safe abortion.

    We won’t like it, but then, like the women in Germany are finding out, a little benevolent sexism from our own men is far preferable to the conditions that others would subject us to.

    German men are in no position to practice benevolent sexism. Their indoctrination runs too deep for them to even conceptualize it. And it’s not like the average German woman is willing to sign up for assortative mating in Marriage 1.0 just because there’s a theoretical chance of her getting fingered by a migrant she probably finds sexually more appealing than her native peers.

  77. Anon says:

    Isn’t Cynthia engaging in another call for men to ‘man up’?

    Why? It is easier to be a PUA who pumps and dumps. I suspect Cynthia is now over 35 and thus long past her peak SMV.

  78. Easttexasfatboy says:

    Cynthia…..good news for that feminist tingle…….actual sex slavery is alive and well! Those chickens are coming home to roost! Please explain why a sane man will protect a feminist? Nah, ain’t happening.

    A QUESTION for all……in a civil insurrection – civil war type of situation, what kills the most folks? Think about it…..we have a precarious food distribution system. Starvation is the big killer. Hide out 6-8 months…..hmmmm…..not so many useless women around. That’s what’s coming, Cynthia. Isn’t it exciting? You don’t even have any supplies put back, do you?

  79. hoellenhund2 says:

    Women have always banked on the assumption that, no matter how bad it gets, a reliable majority (or plurality) of men will still put their shoulder to the wheel and keep the “systems” going. This assumption is now in serious danger, and perceptive women (the few that are out there) sense this and are getting worried. They know, in their gut, that that “reality,” in reality, will be much worse for women than it will be for men.

    Nonsense. During any historical calamity, the overwhelming majority of the dead and wounded has always been men. And the great majority of men have always been willing to play captain beta save-a-ho.

  80. Easttexasfatboy says:

    Nonsense. During any historical calamity, the overwhelming majority of the dead and wounded has always been men. And the great majority of men have always been willing to play captain beta save-a-ho.

    Well, let’s see……3 generations of masculine alienation and feminist hatred…..I think m that might change a few men’s reactions. Women nowadays are raised despising men. It’s a salient feature of feminism.

    I don’t think men can be relied upon by hoes for rescue. Best just let them drown.

  81. Anon says:

    And the great majority of men have always been willing to play captain beta save-a-ho.

    Yep. We, as red pill men, have no duty other to sidestep all the costs and risks, and have them pile onto such a ‘captain whiteknight’. Ideally, the costs borne by an individual will be directly proportional to their commitment to the FI.

  82. Hawk&Rock says:

    “You can’t do anything for your kids that won’t be negated by the outside world. None of us will be able to protect our kids in the midst of a large-scale collapse.”

    Maybe you’re right. I don’t think so but let’s say you are. So what?

    What is it that you don’t understand about refusing to support an evil system?

    I’m done with that and I make no apologies to you or anyone else who was counting on the suckers to step up when the chips are down. This system would like to see people like me dead. The feeling is mutual.

  83. S2C says:

    Disagree. I’m a red pill man, so I turned my feminist girlfriend in to my feminine wife and mother. She’s stay at home, home schooling our kids and working on a business on the side. It’s not about save-a-hoe – it’s about converting the hoe in to the woman she wants to be.

  84. Novaseeker says:

    @Cynthia —

    I agree in general with what you’ve written in your comments. There is a broader impact on all of us, and I have always been skeptical of the devotion to oncoming doom — it’s not something to be wished for, I think.

    It might take the Muslims raping their way across Europe for the West to remember itself and take action.

    It might be better in the long run, but I wish we could do this without suffering such catastrophe and loss of life. It makes me incredibly angry, how blind people have been to the long term effects of our cultural decay.

    The problem is that it’s a very comfortable decay. People see this and that in the culture that they don’t like, or that they think is crass or overboard or immoral, but otherwise most people are just very comfortable. Creature comforts, distractions, endless virtual connectivity. The world buzzes, and is comfortable, for most, and so all of those things are “good enough” for most not to worry about the stuff that others them. It really won’t come home to roost for most people until there is an unmistakeable direct adverse impact on them. Until then, most don’t care, because they are too comfortable with their creature comforts and distractions, so “it’s no big deal, man, just calm down, lol”.

  85. Patrick says:

    “I don’t know of an effective way to persuade a dedicated miser not to be a miser, but what you can do is smoke out their stance for the counterfeit that it is.”

    Carlson seemed to take a step back when Dr. Helen granted him his success and power and contrasted that with other men. It’s possible that Carlson is thinking, “Yeah, this is just how it is. I’ve had to struggle and scrap for the little respect I get, so why should I just hand it out for free?”

  86. Dalrock says:

    @Hawk&Rock

    the ONLY thing that keeps me going — my children. I have prepared and continue to prepare myself and my children to the extent that I can for a time when “the lights go out.” I’m expecting it to be pretty damn terrible and I still say so be it.

    Moreover, I work in a high prestige job and while not a top 1% er am easily a top 10%er. That should worry TPTB because if I’m in the F it camp, how many of the guys that are hurting far worse can be called on to sacrifice to “keep the lights on?” Less than you hope I’m quite sure if it.

    There is no immediate or even near term threat that the average man would turn his back on our society. While we can see changes on the margins, the vast majority of men still marry. Even though roughly half of the men who marry do end up divorced (with around 2/3, probably more initiated by the wife), most of the divorced men are still strongly invested in keeping their children, and even their ex wives safe, fed, etc. This is how men are. If it weren’t true, feminism wouldn’t have been able to progress as it has.

    What we will see instead, and what we are starting to see on the margins, is a small but growing percentage of single men who aren’t motivated to become the kind of providers our system depends on to keep feminism and everything else fully funded, and to make themselves attractive to the aging carousellers looking to jump at the last minute.

  87. feeriker says:

    entropyismygod says:
    January 21, 2016 at 2:43 pm

    Seconded.

    Cynthia, if you’re a Christ follower, you know that what happens to you in this world doesn’t ultimately matter. Your place in heaven is secured. Propping up an evil, God-hating temporal social order so as to buy a few more crumbs of temporal existence is the last thing Jesus would approve of. Again, He never promised us that life in this world would be easy, pleasant, and pain-free.

  88. @The Question

    What I’m wondering is if we will see the rise in significant numbers of a type of man who can neither fulfill the Alpha fux nor the Beta bux aspect of a woman’s hypergamous strategy and the implications this has for society and culture. This type is not Alpha “enough” to provide the fux, but he doesn’t have the money to provide the bux, either, or he’s not the Alpha she wants, but he refuses to provide the bux because he knows what the score is.

    http://therationalmale.com/2014/09/01/the-myth-of-the-good-guy/

    So the archetype of the ‘Good’ guy is offered up as some sort of livable, compromised ideal. If men could aspire to embody the best of the Alpha and temper that with what they define themselves as the best of the Beta, well then he’d be the ‘perfect’ catch for any woman of course.

    The problem with this ‘Good Guy’ myth is not because men can’t or wouldn’t want to try to balance women’s Hypergamy for them, but simply because women neither want nor expect that balance in the same man to begin with.

    It comes back to the Just Get It principle for women – any guy who needs to make a concerned effort to become what he expects women will want from him to be ‘the perfect guy’ doesn’t get it. They want Mr. Perfect because that is who he already is.

    […] Women neither expect nor want a ‘Good Guy’ because he’s not believable, and his genuineness is always doubtable. That may sound jaded, but throw away any idea of being a ‘Good Guy’ balance of Alpha and Beta, because the Beta side of ‘good’ is so reinforced and common in men that it’s become the default template for women’s perception of you.

  89. thedeti says:

    “most people are just very comfortable. Creature comforts, distractions, endless virtual connectivity. The world buzzes, and is comfortable, for most, and so all of those things are “good enough” for most not to worry about the stuff that bothers them.”

    Indeed. Panem et circenses. Bread and circuses. Give the proles food, and give them some stuff to keep them busy. Keep the unwashed masses fed and entertained, and the elites can do what they will. The Romans kept it going a long time that way.

  90. enrique says:

    When the SHTF, expect more White Male converts (“reverts”). This is how countries can Othello board very quickly. Women are not our equals, God never intended them to be, and righteous men will eventually reverse decades of feminism. Not trying to Proselytize, but it is what it is.

  91. joshtheaspie says:

    @cynthia

    I’ve read all of the discussion so far, and you have yet to give me a reason to care. I can either definitely destroy and degrade myself to give benefit to those who despise me, or maybe I’ll be around for the collapse. And if I am around for the collapse, my efforts are far better spent preparing for it, than attempting to stave it off.

    Which should I do, play captain save-a-ho, or improve my physical fitness, train for combat, store food, and learn how to operate multiple weapons platforms, and ham radios? Realistically speaking, which will leave me better off? Which will leave my immediate family better off?

    Which should I do, feed the beast as it exists, or find like-minded people who will actually be able to function for mutual survival in case of the collapse?

    To whom should I give refuge, the church biddies who sing about Boyfriend Jesus (he’s more alpha than you-uh-hu, and has all the beta-softness toooooo), or the men who have been ostracized from the church, but still read their bibles, and will actively help me?

    I’ve researched collapses, and am continuing to do so. I do not relish the colapse itself.

    You still have not convinced me to care about the continued existence of the perversion of what once was western civilization.

  92. Anon says:

    Remember that if there is to be a collapse, men can simply take resources from single feminist women over 40, who are not pretty enough to have a male protector.

    Seems that no one is buying what post-wall Cynthia is selling.

  93. Kevin says:

    I don’t get Carlson’s point. Man up and accept responsibility. No problem. Done and done. Man up and get married to a slut or harpy? That may be the truest manhood, but a man can accept an awful lot of responsibility without it.

    Carson is right men need to man up and quit whining and sitting around playing video games. Carson is crazy that he thinks they then need to accept responsibility for women around them and jump into marriage.

    Masculinity is not a suicide pact.

  94. hoellenhund2 says:

    The world buzzes, and is comfortable, for most, and so all of those things are “good enough” for most not to worry about the stuff that others them. It really won’t come home to roost for most people until there is an unmistakeable direct adverse impact on them. Until then, most don’t care, because they are too comfortable with their creature comforts and distractions, so “it’s no big deal, man, just calm down, lol”.

    There’s another factor at play.

    I vaguely remember the assessment by a British historian, Rayfield, of Stalin’s dictatorship. He examined the activities of Stalin’s opponents within the Party until the early 1930s, and the reasons why they all ultimately failed. His argument is that Stalin’s manipulations, the fear of reprisal and the disunity of the opposition all played an obvious role, but the decisive factor was that nobody in the Party leadership could even conceptualize a political path significantly different from that of Stalin. They were all thinking inside the box. They wanted to oppose him, but couldn’t think of a real alternative to his policies.

    In any given society, it’s normally difficult to have a clear vision of how things could be different. Most people can’t think outside the box, and we see this in effect today as well. Many people find the current sexual marketplace off-putting, but they cannot visualize a world where reliable contraception and legal abortion don’t exist. Many people think outsourcing is problematic, but they cannot visualize a different economic system etc.

  95. Kevin says:

    I should add, that in respect vs fairness, fairness will win with our society. Care, fairness, liberty, loyalty, authority, and purity are the six things that pull on peoples hearts/innate morality ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Foundations_Theory ). Authority is alternatively called respect. Its hard to determine in a people that don’t recognize authority of husbands or fathers or God what impact an appeal to respect will have, but I don’t think much. Probably not even in men because as a society we have rejected authority outside the state for fairness and victim as status markers. An appeal to fairness might have more chance to appeal to the general population even if it does not appeal to men and is, as Dalrock pointed out, the wrong solution to a misdiagnosis.

    The revulsion men feel at the lack of respect is probably a fundamental moral outrage as well, but our society is past it.

    People don’t respect stay at home moms as well (although this is an order of magnitude smaller problem) and this probably pushes women into the work force more and more. A friend of mine brags that his daughter is going to be a neurosurgeon and all I think is what a crappy childhood that would be – to have a mom be a neurosurgeon. He is proud of himself but I see it as a total failure of fathering. But he is super proud of his daughter, way more proud than he would be if she were slogging it out at home with a newborn. Its all part of the same problem – the family is nothing so no respect can flow there. No admiration to a husband who supports his family.

  96. Splashman says:

    All you “let it burn” types make me barf. Does the term “self-fulfilling prophecy” mean anything to you? Obviously not. Your verbose attempts to justify your selfish laziness are just as disgusting and pitiful as those of women to justify their selfish rebellion.

    Be honest: you actually want SHTF because (a) you can smugly proclaim you were right, and (b) you can justify sitting on your fat ass for all those years.

  97. PokeSalad says:

    ….and the White Knight makes his entrance…….chuckles…..

  98. Dave says:

    @cynthia:

    Our current corrupt government may not be worth defending, but Western civilization is. This isn’t about continuing to prop up the status quo but defending what is worth defending in our culture and returning it to political relevance.

    As hopeless as things look today, I still have this tiny bit of confidence that things can still be turned around for the better, for many reasons.
    1. The feminists who currently hold society ransom did not start out with any significant amount of power. Yet, within 40-50 years, the western world literally grovels at their feet. Western men could be as powerless as they are today, but history is on their side. If feminists could do it, so can men.
    2. Those who would stand for what is right have two things going for them right away. The first is the force of nature, and the second is the excesses of feminism.
    3. Despite all the feminist brainwashing of society, there is still that unsuppressable voice of nature within the heart of every man and woman. Women still desire to be loved and cherished by some man, and, with very few exceptions, they still long to have families of their own.
    Men, too, still long to have the respect and admiration of both society and women, as this thread clearly shows. Even without men doing anything to counter the feminist narrative, the force of nature will require massive amounts of efforts on the part of the feminists, if it is to be kept in check. And, like a dam into which a hundred rivers is continuously flowing, this force of nature is going to require an ever increasing amount of maintenance with each additional generation of people.
    4.Feminism has outpriced itself beyond the desirability of even many women. When celebrities, for various reasons, are coming out to dissociate themselves from the movement, maybe it is about time to start looking up for men’s redemption. Like all the other “isms” (Communism, Socialism, Fascism, etc), feminism might maintain an intact exterior and appear impenetrable just before it collapses on its own weight.

  99. Splashman says:

    Forgot to mention: you “Christ-following” let-it-burn types, who justify your laziness with spiritual platitudes, are even more contemptible than the rest, because you should know better. If Jesus actually believed as you, he would never have driven the money-changers from the Temple. “Aw, what the hell — this whole place will be destroyed in a few decades anyway. Why bother?”

  100. enrique says:

    Fairness, loyalty, shame, etc. Those cultural items only exist in homogeneous cultures. Unless there is a shared religion (and I even wonder about that), if the SHTF, just think of that rude employee at the DMV…if you think of people of a different race or culture are going to do what is “fair” or “reasonable” when things get REALLY bad, you are kidding yourself.

    Appeals to respect, purity, shame, loyalty, “fairness” only works in a couple places: Homogeneous cultures (Japan, Peru); anyone of “color” against white people who are in otherwise homogeneous cultures (Finno-Scandinavia)

  101. greyghost says:

    Splashman
    SHTF is the choice because fighting for what we have is not worth it. Think about what you are saying in the current context. A committed family man that marries and fathers children is treated with contempt. Culturally, legally, in media and the church. No man that is in the slightest aware of that wants to save that. I know I don’t. Imagine being a soldier going to war for this country and losing your blue pill ignorance. A civil war will have a lot of military men refusing to fight their liberators.

  102. scientivore says:

    Here’s a fantastic essay predicting our current breakdown of society, from 1871: Women’s Rights Women by Robert Lewis Dabney (h/t The Other McCain)

    @ The Question:

    “I think also the difference is that many men here in the United States opt out not because they don’t like women but because of the intense hostility by society and culture to men and marriage. That doesn’t seem to be the case with Japanese grass eaters. They’re just not interested in women for whatever reason. Or do they have similar laws in place?”

    It’s more along the lines of despair due to knowing that their temp jobs are contemptible in the eyes of Japanese women, so they don’t even try.

  103. Splashman says:

    @Dave, in support of your #3, those who believe that things can and will get better as God-fearing civilization is defended and expanded, are reproducing. Feminists and the let-it-burn types (both “Christian” and non-), are not.

  104. greyghost says:

    It takes a lot of unfairness, beratement, and abuse for men to reach a point where they literally don’t care about women facing the consequences of their own inherent stupidity, but we have reached that point.

    http://www.returnofkings.com/77638/why-are-swedish-police-protecting-migrants-who-molest-young-girls-at-concerts
    Won’t see many stories of men stepping in on this one.

  105. Spike says:

    Yac Yac (Love the name) is perfectly right: Why should a young man join the ranks of enslaved “Cuck”servatives? What is in it for him? Is there some value in joining the ranks of the enslaved?

    Dalrock has often looked at the inversion of values as a theme: The inversion of marriage being the context to explore sex and romantic love, for instance has now become “Romantic love is the context to explore marriage and sex”. Men are feminised. Women masculinised, and so on.

    It is now the same with respect. The clamber for women in the military to take the respect that men’s valour in battle gives them is one aspect. Another is that women should be respected because…they are women, they are “in charge”. The problem with this view is that it thrusts women into roles unsuited for them but it that wasn’t enough, married men don’t get the former status married women got: they become Homer Simpson, Peter Griffin, Stan Smith and all of the bumbling idiots of the television commercials. Wow, sign me up….

  106. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    The Question: Dennis Prager got divorced twice if I’m not mistaken and still tells young men to charge into no man’s land in the Somme…

    Dennis Prager has been spewing male/female idiocies since the 1990s. He’s said that women are not physically attracted to men. Women are emotionally attracted to men. Only after a woman gets to know the man, and finds him emotionally appealing, will the physical attraction come.

    Prager cited the example of a man wearing a short skirt to show off his legs. Prager observed that while men are attracted to women’s legs, women are not attracted to men’s legs. They would only laugh at a man showing off his legs in a skirt. Women have more elevated values.

    I used to believe that nonsense. I actually thought that women weren’t all that interested in sex. That what women really wanted was to fall in love. That first a woman falls in love — with a man who appreciates and respects her — and only then will her physical attraction follow. That it didn’t really matter to a woman what a man looks like. All those women going off with bad boys, it was only because the bad boys were good liars, and the poor women were victimized by the bad boys’ lies.

    Naturally, I was not too successful with women in my teens and 20s. I pedestalized them and was friend-zoned. Especially frustrating was that women agreed with me, telling me how right I was, but they did did not practice what they preached. Which was puzzling to my blue pill mind.

  107. Splashman says:

    @GG, If you are stating that current society makes it extremely difficult to be a good man, I’ll be the first to agree. If you are stating that current society makes it impossible to be a good man, then you are myopic.

    My disagreement with let-it-burn types is not with the diagnosis, but the solution. Let-it-burn types believe that current society must be destroyed, in the hope that someday, a better society will emerge. Along the way, they ridicule folks that believe that it is possible, through hard work and sacrifice, to change our society for the better, and thus avoid a grand experiment that may or may not produce the desired result in the following millennia.

    Question: Which mindset is healthier? Meaning, which mindset is more likely to lead a person to develop good habits, as related to life in general?

    1) “No hope. I can’t do anything. Let it burn. Things will magically get better someday.”

    2) “Things are bad, but I can help things get better.”

  108. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Dennis Prager is also a chickenhawk. He’s very hawish on the U.S. sending troops into Arab and Muslim countries, yet he sat out Vietnam in the 1960s due to (several, I think) college deferments.

  109. Kevin says:

    Our society will not probably collapse over the these things in our life time if ever. Its slow change and as damaging as feminism is the majority of people are fine with it and still get married and live their lives reasonably fine.

    There are a few paths that we can take. Two that come to mind (but there are probably lots more): One is inner city family dysfunction wide spread – that probably is collapse if adopted by more than 20% of the population.

    The more likely is European ennui with low birth rates and decaying culture that is replaced over decades and centuries.

  110. Novaseeker says:

    The US will have a harder time pulling off the European ennui / soft/slow decline, because we are radically heterogeneous (ethnicity, values, income/class). The US will become more like the rest of the Americas, rather than like Europe. Canada is becoming like Europe already.

  111. greyghost says:

    Splashman
    The solution is death and lots of it. Look at how far Europe has fallen. It gets worse with a double down and a double down to fix it. When the people with the power of life and death are red pill and put and end to it due to their position of authority we have hope.
    I suggest you buy a rifle. When it slips it will be really fast. Check this out. This happened just a few years after the winter Olympics in Sarajevo
    http://shtfschool.com/blog/

  112. Anon says:

    He’s very hawish on the U.S. sending troops into Arab and Muslim countries,

    A lot of cuckservative ‘hawkishness’ during the WoT was not about terror at all, but to whiteknight for ‘oppressed’ Muslim women without any evidence that the women wanted such whiteknighting. This reveals how little they understand about women, and why a lot of women prefer Islam..

  113. hoellenhund2 says:

    A lot of cuckservative ‘hawkishness’ during the WoT was not about terror at all, but to whiteknight for ‘oppressed’ Muslim women without any evidence that the women wanted such whiteknighting.

    It was first and foremost to cuck for the Israel Lobby.

  114. Splashman says:

    GG, I already own several firearms, both short and long, but not because I fear SHTF.

    You are convinced you have no power to change society for the better, yet are equally convinced that others will — sometime, somewhere, somehow. Not a healthy existence.

  115. hoellenhund2 says:

    The US will have a harder time pulling off the European ennui / soft/slow decline, because we are radically heterogeneous (ethnicity, values, income/class).

    Then again, European governments are very obviously dedicated to making Europe as ethnically and religiously heterogeneous as possible. I think it’s important to point this out when we’re discussing the possibility of social collapse, namely that societies in decline seem to have a tendency to take directions that accelerate their demise.

  116. greyghost says:

    Splashman the best way to change is to be red pill and spread the word. Repeating cuckservative bullshit and doubling down on it like you are saving society Only makes it worse.
    Things are most likely going to slip. . .

  117. Novaseeker says:

    Then again, European governments are very obviously dedicated to making Europe as ethnically and religiously heterogeneous as possible. I think it’s important to point this out when we’re discussing the possibility of social collapse, namely that societies in decline seem to have a tendency to take directions that accelerate their demise.

    That may be true, but the US, as a baseline, is heterogeneous. Europe is morphing that way, but the likely outcome there is tribalism. In the US, we’re atomized — a “nation” comprised of millions of balkanized individuals who entertain only voluntary associations with others. That’s very, very weak social glue as compared with the base in Europe (which is, as you point out, now being attacked from within). I think our endgame is more like Latin America because of that, but it will be a North American version of it — exceptionally heterogeneous in all ways (the North American aspect) and very stratified (the greater “Americas” aspect). I don’t think the next 30 years in the US will look like the last 30 in Europe — that’s what I’m saying.

  118. The Question says:

    @ Rollo Tomassi

    Message received. That documentary was painful to listen to. Total lack of introspection or self-awareness on the part of the narrator or any of the “laydees” as to why marriage has eluded them. Barely four minutes into it and I was howling. Being a reporter myself, her “journalism” career just added to the mirth.

    It also horribly eerie, because I’ve heard that exact tone, those exact same declarations, made by many a strong, independent woman™ – except they were in their early twenties. Sad to think this will be them in a few years crying at weddings for reasons that elude them.

    But no tears shed from me over it.

  119. Anonymous Reader says:

    Dennis Prager has been spewing male/female idiocies since the 1990s. He’s said that women are not physically attracted to men. Women are emotionally attracted to men. Only after a woman gets to know the man, and finds him emotionally appealing, will the physical attraction come.

    In that case I guess it’s impressive he only wound up divorced twice. This isn’t Blue Pill, this is Ultraviolet Pill. Even the Victorians didn’t go that far.

  120. “For women looking to marry, there has to be a beta provider at the end of the carousal ride, but what happens when she hops off and finds that the men are either too poor or too informed about the current setup to marry her and no amount of shaming will change that?”. Simple. If there is no man, the woman goes to the strongest female. Lesbianism becomes her option. At least until men get there with other ideas.

    What a mess that we even consider all this. But don’t look for comfort from media figures. I consider Carson a cuck. His nest feathered with feminist pronouncements for us to “man up”, get over it, be responsible, be a man? He is under a threatpoint himself, he would just never admit it. But the rest of us men should seek our fulfillment by going through with marriage, being responsible and THEN we get respect? And if we guess wrong on our choice of women, well, tough shit, eat child support, eat alimony and consider that we were responsible, in Carson’s vernacular? Insanity. And that’s where Men On Strike comes in.

  121. enrique says:

    Novaseeker, don’t you think we will simply wind up like Brazil? Lots of gated communities, with a semi-functioning civil government (can take the trash out), but with the occasional break down at the local walmart over shortages or whatever. In other countries, including 2nd (cum 1st) world countries (like Malaysia) so much around you can look 1st world, then traffic backs up because…because an elephant died at a traffic intersection.

    I see the US as having some of the same things you see in 2nd world countries, like Brazil. We basically know have accepted criminal gangs of blacks attacking people who venture into their “land” (urban areas, subways…always increasing landscapes), with minor disruptions on everyone else’s lives (yelling, fights, mobs at Macys, BLM yelling at some Dennys somewhere); we have upper middle class that live in what are essentially gated communities, and upper class IN gated communities. The wealthy live in nice areas VERY CLOSE to human wastelands, and pay a premium to send their kids to “better schools” (code for white, that EVERYONE uses as the phrase to say what they REALLY mean).

    And we self segregate, just like Brazil and most of mixed Latin America. Even as we become more Hispanic, many (like myself) are white and mix with other whites and Hispanics to form a new social caste similar to the Scots, Irish or Germans (1800s immigrants) before (sub-Anglo culture). Life goes on.

    The only thing we DON’T have here, is in those truly 2nd world nations, when you get up in the face of a cop and scream, you get beat, shot, stabbed, for real. And the upper class in those places, actually ARE upper class–unlike screamer girl at Yale…that mixed hoodrat that couldn’t buy class. Her brown counterpart in Brazil or Argentina would not THINK of acting that classless, because she knew better than to shame her family and marital prospects. The out-of-control minority situation/leftist situation is different here because it developed differently, into mainstream–from ACTUAL state discrimination versus old school, long-lasting plantation philosophy, where money and mixing moved one up in society, like it used to be in New Orleans, Savannah and other cosmopolitan Southern cities in the 17 and 1800s. There IS no political correctness in Latin America. Everyone knows rank based on money/property and skin color/features and no one pretends, no matter where they fall in the spectrum.

  122. enrique says:

    The Wall is soft and cushiony:

    https://www.yahoo.com/tv/mariah-carey-engaged-billionaire-james-032900698.html

    Steve Harvey (Blue Pill Pharma Rep), remarked that the billionaire, who probably could have nabbed an 18 year old virgin from Russia or pick your country…was “lucky” to have landed passed-around 45-year old, shop worn, fat, passed-a-prime-that-arguably-never-was, Mariah Carey. You have to wonder if he wasn’t actually kidding when he said that to the groom-to-be, just to see if James Packer picked up on it.

  123. Deti,

    Men are not going to get out without paying. They will always be made to pay.

    This might be the very thing that is now happening to Bill Cosby.

  124. Dave says:

    This might be the very thing that is now happening to Bill Cosby.

    I think Cosby must have received crappy advice from his lawyers who probably told him to keep silent in the face of horrendous allegations, in the hope that it will all go away. When someone says you raped them, and you do not dispute that allegation, before the law, your quiscence is almost equivalent to guilt. Had Cosby countersued his first accuser till she lost her way in his web of lawsuits, other wannabe accusers would have thought twice before they went on CNN to peddle their suspicious tales of rape.

  125. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Dennis Prager … said that women are not physically attracted to men. Women are emotionally attracted to men. Only after a woman gets to know the man, and finds him emotionally appealing, will the physical attraction come.

    Anonymous Reader says: In that case I guess it’s impressive he only wound up divorced twice. This isn’t Blue Pill, this is Ultraviolet Pill. Even the Victorians didn’t go that far.

    When I was young, I saw this Ultraviolet thinking reflected in many films. A big, brawny, bully of a jock makes crude, sexist remarks, trying to impress the heroine. Yet the heroine is uninterested in the jock’s muscles, confidence, or campus celebrity. She calls the jock a “macho jerk.” Instead, she is drawn to the shy nerd, admiring his intelligence, artistic creativity, and sensitivity.

    Sometimes, when the jock bullies the nerd, the heroine will even intervene, protecting the nerd from the jock. The nerd retorts with some witty wisecracks, before slinking away to safety. The heroine pines after him, wishing he’d find the courage to ask her out.

    I suppose many scripts are written by former nerds, who are “getting even” with the jocks who bullied them. Fantasizing about prom queens who prefer nerds over jocks.

  126. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    enrique: In other countries, including 2nd (cum 1st) world countries (like Malaysia) … 2nd world countries, like Brazil.

    When I went to high school in the 1970s, I was taught that the Second World was the Communst Bloc. That was it. The industrialized West (Western Europe, Canada and the U.S, Japan, Australia and the Pacific Rim) was the First World. The Warsaw Pact was the Second World. Everybody else was Third World — all of Africa, Latin America, Southern Asia, even Red China.

    First World was NATO and its allies. Second World was Warsaw Pact. Third World was the non-aligned nations.

    I guess those definitions have changed?

    There IS no political correctness in Latin America.

    Are you sure? I hear the feminism and gay marriage are making big inroads.

  127. Micha Elyi says:

    Pun of the Day:

    For women looking to marry, there has to be a beta provider at the end of the carousal ride…
    the Question

  128. hoellenhund2 says:

    Europe is morphing that way, but the likely outcome there is tribalism. In the US, we’re atomized — a “nation” comprised of millions of balkanized individuals who entertain only voluntary associations with others. That’s very, very weak social glue as compared with the base in Europe (which is, as you point out, now being attacked from within). I think our endgame is more like Latin America because of that, but it will be a North American version of it — exceptionally heterogeneous in all ways (the North American aspect) and very stratified (the greater “Americas” aspect). I don’t think the next 30 years in the US will look like the last 30 in Europe — that’s what I’m saying.

    OK, point taken.

    I’d also advise everyone to keep an eye on Russia in that respect. Almost a fifth of their population is Muslim, a quarter is non-Russian (the overlap is obviously big), and they are the second most popular destination for immigrants in the world after the USA. Russians are already a minority in Moscow. And if you take their precarious economic situation and the weakness of their political institutions into account, it becomes obvious that a social collapse is much more likely there. Things can get pretty bad for them.

  129. hoellenhund2 says:

    Novaseeker, don’t you think we will simply wind up like Brazil?

    That’s exactly what he said: “I think our endgame is more like Latin America because of that, but it will be a North American version of it”

  130. hoellenhund2 says:

    When I went to high school in the 1970s, I was taught that the Second World was the Communst Bloc. That was it. The industrialized West (Western Europe, Canada and the U.S, Japan, Australia and the Pacific Rim) was the First World. The Warsaw Pact was the Second World. Everybody else was Third World — all of Africa, Latin America, Southern Asia, even Red China.

    Indeed. When enrique talks about 2nd world countries, I suppose he’s referring to moderately advanced nations with weak democratic institutions, a lack of welfare state and no stable economic foundations compared to the 1st world.

  131. hoellenhund2 says:

    “That doesn’t seem to be the case with Japanese grass eaters. They’re just not interested in women for whatever reason. Or do they have similar laws in place?”

    It’s more along the lines of despair due to knowing that their temp jobs are contemptible in the eyes of Japanese women, so they don’t even try.

    I’d add that they’ll probably remain a decidedly Japanese phenomenon, so I wouldn’t get my hopes up in that respect, so to speak. Japanese society has peculiarities that make it perfect ground for MGTOW. There’s no conscription, practially no threat of foreign military involvement, no immigration, no refugee crisis, no ethnic tension. Crime rates are also very low, and opportunities for entertainment are practically endless. There’s exactly zero pressure on men to man up. In Germany, at least there are people arguing that local men should men up and defend “their” women from Muslim rapists. They won’t get anywhere, but in Japan there’s no such issue to begin with.

  132. Kaminsky says:

    “You derive deep satisfaction as a man by taking responsibility for other people.”
    –Tucker Carlson

    (Well, Tucker some ‘other people’ are struggling right now and feeling disrespected, maybe needing a bit of old fashioned help)

    “Who cares?”
    —Tucker Carlson

    This guy has been with his current wife since age 15. Guys like that will not acknowledge the validity of lifestyles different than their own. They have way too much investment and have missed too much. They cannot allow that there were other options because the scope of what they cut themselves off from has way too much breadth. Let a little bit of ‘woulda, coulda, shoulda’ leak in and it’s like a levee breaking. It’s why I’m so sick of Trad-Cons in general. They are very collective-minded and domineering towards others’ life choices…mostly just in order to clean up their own minds and snuff out any lurking regrets that would blow them away if they took it head on.

  133. PokeSalad says:

    In Germany, at least there are people arguing that local men should men up and defend “their” women from Muslim rapists.

    This is complicated by the fact that the Muslims didn’t “invade” Germany like Attila the Hun, they were invited in by the female-dominated elites….a clearer sign of contempt for “German men” you will never find. If the Muslims had forced their way in, it would be a radically different situation…but “German women” surrendered the fortress without a shot….and then covered up the crimes.

    I think the “German men” got this powerful message loud and clear – we prefer imported Muslims to you. There is a psychological/sexual/Game component to these otherwise-inexplicable acts by Merkel, et al, that hasn’t been fully examined yet.

  134. Miserman says:

    Let’s just hope that the pursuit of restoring respect to men, should that happen, does not become just another utilitarian function to grease the wheels of social interaction. There is more to it than that.

  135. Boxer says:

    Dear Poke Salad et. al.:

    This is complicated by the fact that the Muslims didn’t “invade” Germany like Attila the Hun, they were invited in by the female-dominated elites….a clearer sign of contempt for “German men” you will never find… I think the “German men” got this powerful message loud and clear – we prefer imported Muslims to you.

    Look, I like bashing women as much as the next misogynist, but blanketing blame across German women is unsupported by a read of the historical data. You can’t even blame it on leftish types. One of the most vociferous opponents of the migration is Kathrin Oertel, an East German woman with a Marxist history (she’s the original founder of PEGIDA).

    There is one generalization that I think is justified. The people favoring the migration tend to be the same people who want to import illegal workers into North America – rich people who live in gated communities who want to make money off a weird postcapitalist slavery. George Soros isn’t a woman, for example. These people tend to like illegal immigration because migrants are easy to exploit. They can make money off of them.

    German women (and German Jews – another oft blamed group) are the overwhelming losers in the migration game.

  136. DrTorch says:

    There is a psychological/sexual/Game component to these otherwise-inexplicable acts by Merkel, et al, that hasn’t been fully examined yet.

    Indeed. Same with the other countries. Feminists in Sweden are screeching that white men are the epitome of rape culture, even as the evidence proves the opposite. Pretty clear that loathing of western men is a big factor in what’s going on.

  137. Casey says:

    @ Anchorman
    Anchorman said:
    “Keep in mind, the first response to the issue of respect will be:”
    “Respect is earned, not given”

    I agree.
    That is indeed the flippant response that will be given.
    However, it is incorrect.

    RESPECT can be given & received readily.
    It is ‘TRUST’ that must be earned.

  138. SCC says:

    *Urgent* need for prayer and advice here:

    Some months ago my wife started “hearing from God.” This involved various things, including encouraging friends for some specific reasons revealed to her, as well more bizarre things like preparing for trips that I was going to say we needed to take. After a while I told her we needed to test this spirit, and several predictions failed completely. Spirit realm is not my expertise, and the Bible is limited on details to approach this, but I could only conclude that this was not from God.

    I told her to stop messing with this because it was dangerous, and, if for no other reason, our kids would start to see Christianity as a silly, bizarre superstition.

    All of this was after her involvement in Total Body Modification, an alternative medicine approach that this practitioner brought in a Christian/spiritual element. The TBM seemed to benefit my wife greatly, but had limits, and my wife started getting wacky with how she was using it.

    Anyway, last couple of months I could tell my wife was acting weird. I’d spend 3 hrs at my kids practices, come home and see nothing done (save a few dishes washed). She stopped wearing her wedding ring. She was acting ditzy, stumbling to answer basic questions, forgetting to do basic tasks. I suspected she was having an affair, or perhaps drugs. (Very out of character for an ultra-prude). Last weekend things really peaked and I kept asking her what was wrong.

    This week things turned into tears, vomiting, and sleep jerks (sleep starts) all through the night. I continued to question and she kept answering that she needed to obey God in everything. Last night I discovered she’d been listening to “God’s voice” again. She spent the entire evening on the kitchen floor praying kneeling or prostrate. She got up early this morning to tell me she had forgiven me, and then started singing hymns and thanking God for his grace and mercy.

    I asked her if she had spent daytime (she homeschools) on the floor like that in front of the kids. She said yes. She asked if I wanted her to leave. I told her yes. I don’t want evil spirits in my home. I don’t want my kids thinking devout Christianity looks like this.

    Thoughts? (We’re not connected with any church right now)

  139. Casey says:

    @ Anchorman
    Anchorman said:
    “I suggest we stop thinking about pushing change to save “civilization” and keep focus on God’s Plan for us. God doesn’t want us to shrug. He’s called us to serve Him, to worship Him, to fulfill His Plan for our lives. They two can be linked, but we need to remain faithful to our role. Don’t let the pressures, frustrations, and temptations of the world distract you from God’s plan for you.”

    I struggle with this comment, as it seems to portray martyrdom as God’s plan.
    God hasn’t spoken directly to me that he expects me to throw myself on my sword, so why would I?

    Perhaps God’s plan if for men to collectively abandon women; these women who in turn are too rebellious to see their role in the current debacle.

    God wants us to serve him. Agreed.
    Perhaps serving him best in the present, is the abject rejection of the current crop of women.

  140. Kevin says:

    If we end up like Brazil – the most demographically diverse country in the Americas along with the US, things may be better or worse here. We are much wealthier so the Latin American push for socialism and redistribution will become very strong.

    Either way, we may descend into something else, but outside war or some other thing there will be no collapse and pining for one or making choices to make it happen sooner are as useful as buying lottery tickets and taking out an advance on the winnings. As an individual I feel the futility of “trying to make it better” but if people want to opt out of society be realistic. You are not doing anything to make the end sooner, MGTOW will never be more than a tiny fraction of the population, genetically despite our screwed up society most people are going to follow the path to marriage. Most men will rationalize their way into marrying sluts or some girl they think is a unicorn even if redpill. Europe has had gay marriage, feminism like crazy forever, and the men still get married or cohabitate and still have children. Although – I have no idea what divorce looks like there or what the legal structure is in the family courts.

    If i was puppeteering Carlson I am not sure what I would say. Most people will end up getting married anyway and many of those men will go through the divorce meat grinder anyway. Most men have to go through some trauma like divorce to become red pill because its a bitter pill to give up illusions about your wife, your mom, society and your place in it. We can be assured it all madness, but mainstream sites that represent most men and women openly mock red pill ideas without much pushback.

    I wish we had a better wedge to reach conservatives and that side of the social spectrum. They are the most likely allies. Dr. Helen thinks fairness is the wedge.

  141. scientivore says:

    @ PokeSalad: “There is a psychological/sexual/Game component to these otherwise-inexplicable acts by Merkel, et al, that hasn’t been fully examined yet.”

    Maybe not here. Speculation ranges from a collective nuclear shit test to risk-seeking behavior triggered by barren wombs.

    To clarify that latter one: Mother Nature doesn’t care how you get pregnant, so it’s plausible that eventually a woman’s lack of offspring would trigger a failsafe that undermines danger evaluation so that she can get raped. (This is arguably the driving force behind SlutWalks.) Since natural selection can’t work on the infertile, this hypothetical failsafe would continue to function without purpose in post-menopausal women without offspring.

  142. Casey says:

    @ Poke Salad
    Poke Salad said:
    “Why would women worry about giving respect to men, when the Almighty Government Daddy is right there to insulate them from any and all consequences?”

    Exactly right.
    Take government backing out of this equation, and feminism’s false boasts fall to ashes.

    And therein lay the solution.

    When times get tougher due to economic strife/malaise, and a government is powerless to intercede (look at Greece for a taste) then women will DEMAND restoration of the previous societal setup (i.e. – what actually worked).

    Until that day, we’re all screwed.

    I am not begging for that event to take place, simply pointing out that only such a LARGE event could possibly take the wind out of the over-reaching sails of feminism.

  143. Casey says:

    @ Cynthia
    Cynthia said:

    “Our current system enables indifference and outright anger. Not just the expression of that antipathy, but it’s very existence. If things drastically change, none of us are going to have the luxury of not caring. I can appreciate the sentiment of not being concerned about what happens to the wider world, but at the very least, the water no longer working or violent gangs in the streets does still have an impact on your life.”

    So, “we” should care what happens to the ‘wider world’ then?

    Did you have this same sentiment 10 years ago when the wolves weren’t snarling outside your door?

    Cynthia, did you care over the course of the past 50 years the unrelenting belittling and marginalization of men?

    Most women cannot see what is being taken from the ‘wider world’, provided they are the benefactors of that thievery.

    You want to earn my trust? Take your message to your female friends.

    Tell them how deeply apologetic women need to be for not stepping forward to thwart feminism’s evil plans.

    Then sit back, and watch them stare at you with their dull cow eyes.
    At best, they’ll ignore you. At worst, they’ll attack you.

  144. enrique says:

    I was speaking of “2nd” world in an economic/civil government sense. All the countries that have Skyscrapers, but trouble operating toilets.

    Kevin, I don’t think MGTOW will be a tiny fraction, depending on how you define it. We already have a sizeable amount of men who are not in LTRs or married, who are well into their 30s, when two decades ago they would have already been married.

    RedPill, I think liberal ideas such as feminism and gay rights have made SOME inroads in Latin America, but primarily in the White (Westernized/Oriented) countries like Uruguay, Argentina. Not to say those groups aren’t bitching in other countries, but there’s no general consensus in countries like Bolivia or Peru to make gay marriage cool.

  145. Kevin says:

    @enrique

    You may be right. Its hard to get good data. Average marriage age is rising, and %unmarried is rising very slightly. I guess it also depends on what we mean by tiny fraction. I come from a pro-marriage culture and maybe that is blinding me, but it would be good to see what percent of men are forgoing marriage despite opportunities.

  146. feeriker says:

    You want to earn my trust? Take your message to your female friends.

    Tell them how deeply apologetic women need to be for not stepping forward to thwart feminism’s evil plans.

    Sorry, Casey, but this fails on two counts: 1) expecting a woman to hold other women accountable, and 2) expecting women to admit their culpability, individually or collectively, in anything. Would that God performed a miracle and rewired women to enable them to do this, but short of that we can just expect more the status quo.

    Then sit back, and watch them stare at you with their dull cow eyes.
    At best, they’ll ignore you. At worst, they’ll attack you.

    Attack would be the most likely scenario, but again, I don’t think we have to worry about any such thing ever happening, so it’s a purely academic supposition. Neither Cynthia nor any other individual woman is ever going to admit any culpability or negligence in the success of feminism nor urge any other women to do so.

  147. Hawk&Rock says:

    @ Kevin “Either way, we may descend into something else, but outside war or some other thing there will be no collapse and pining for one or making choices to make it happen sooner are as useful as buying lottery tickets and taking out an advance on the winnings. ”

    America is too big to fail. Nothing really bad will ever happen here. Got it. Hahaha

    The US dollar will lose its reserve currency status not fifty years from now, not 30 years from now not even twenty years from now. Even if this happens in the most orderly way possible (it won’t), some very nasty things will happen very quickly. Many rational people here and abroad predict civil unrest like no one living has ever experienced. There are DHS/FEMA plans to deal with it (some classified some not) and they are not pleasant.

    Secondly, I don’t know a single person “pining for” a collapse or trying to make one occur. This is an absurd straw man fantasy.

    There are people who recognize that their government does not have their best interests at heart and hasn’t for a long, long time. These people quite reasonably wonder why anyone would ever act in a way that preserves such an entity. Most here want to believe that these people constitute a tiny, fringe group of “selfish” “lazy” “bitter” “losers” etc.

    I think that this group is much bigger than anyone wants to admit. Further, the kindred that I have met are some of the most intelligent, level-headed, industrious, accomplished, faithful and determined people you will ever hope to meet.

    As long as there’s beer and corn chips and Monday Night Football most fantasize that things will always be this way. They won’t.

  148. PokeSalad says:

    Secondly, I don’t know a single person “pining for” a collapse or trying to make one occur. This is an absurd straw man fantasy.

    This comes from people who also say that CCW-holders are just ‘insecure’ and ‘scared’ men who want a phallic toy.

    The future belongs to those who assume the worst.

  149. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    PokeSalad: There is a psychological/sexual/Game component to these otherwise-inexplicable acts by Merkel, et al, that hasn’t been fully examined yet.

    No, it’s not “otherwise-inexplicable.” Nor do I think that Germany allowing Muslim invaders has anything to do with Merkel’s sex.

    This is about Holocaust guilt. Seventy years of being brow-beaten daily by world opinion, and by Hollywood in particular. Endless movies depicting not only evil Nazis, but evil Germans of every century. Whenever you hear a character with a German accent, it’s almost always a villain.

    German schools raise children to believe that “We Germans are the most evil, racist people in history. We have committed crimes that can never be forgotten or forgiven.”

    Germans have been traumatized into believing that any German pride in anything, any expression of self-interest, any act of placing their own interests above any foreigners — especially a foreigner of color — is one step away from The Return of Hitler.

    One German politician reportedly said (approvingly) that Germany only exists to ensure the survival of Israel and the Jewish people: http://www.lukeford.net/blog/?p=85794

    Germans are committing ethnic and national suicide because they’ve been convinced that their very existence is morally evil. That the only way to exorcise their evil is to eradicate their very Germanness.

  150. PokeSalad says:

    @Dave, in support of your #3, those who believe that things can and will get better as God-fearing civilization is defended and expanded, are reproducing. Feminists and the let-it-burn types (both “Christian” and non-), are not.

    Then you have nothing to worry about, right?

    I don’t think a reading of the birthrates between the “West” and Islamic countries supports your view.

  151. PokeSalad says:

    Germans are committing ethnic and national suicide because they’ve been convinced that their very existence is morally evil. That the only way to exorcise their evil is to eradicate their very Germanness.

    I’ve heard this argument often. If so, then what is Sweden’s excuse? Their “neutrality” during World War II? Guilt over providing all that iron ore to Der Fuhrer?

  152. S2C says:

    Sweden and Germany have been taken over by the same people. The main argument in Germany for suppressing speech is “Nazis!!”. In Sweden it is: our society will benefit from multi-culturalism, and if you disagree, you are a Nazi and we will jail you. Seriously. They started with publicly excoriating anyone that dared speak out about unassimalable immigration and moved to straight up jailing them.

    The reasons given vary slightly- but the people making the arguments all have the same goal.

  153. The Question says:

    @Dalrock, if you’re looking for a new post topic, it’s your favorite blogger again🙂

    http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/dear-millennial-men-dont-be-afraid-of-marriage-and-fatherhood/

    “I can look at my life up until this point and separate it into two distinct halves: childhood and manhood. Childhood ended and manhood began precisely when I became a husband and then a father. That is my experience, and maybe it’s just a sad statement about the sort of person I was before, but I suspect there’s something more universal to it. ”

    “That’s why it pains me to see what’s happening in my generation — how so many of us men are so deathly afraid of marriage and fatherhood. Young men these days desperately hang onto their adolescence, unwilling to grow up and graduate to the next stage of their lives. Record numbers are living at home. Millions supposedly can’t find jobs and can’t support themselves.”

    Paging Rollo Tomassi……

  154. anonymous_ng says:

    Miami resident MD gets caught on video attacking Uber driver.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/miami-doctor-anjali-ramkissoon-youtube-video-uber-driver-florida/

    Guess she’s going to have to go seriously down scale to find a husband who will pay her worthless medical school bills since she’s (likely/hopefully) never going to work as an MD; at least not in the US.

  155. Casey says:

    @ feeriker

    I’d desperately like to argue your counter-points…….but I cannot. I have no arrows in my quiver to pierce that logic.

    I wasn’t really expecting Cynthia to be able to do as I stated.

    If she could act, or if women collectively could act, in the interests of the ‘whole’ rather than the refrain of ‘me, me, me, me, me’, then this mess wouldn’t exist in the first place.

  156. Casey says:

    @anonymous_ng
    From the article:

    “Miami Police say they responded to a call of a disturbance, but did not arrest her. Juan Cinco wrote online that the driver did not want to press charges and that Ramkissoon gave him a small amount of money as an apology.”

    And therein lies the difference. A man would have immediately been hauled off to jail.

    “Internet users (mostly MGTOWs) are demanding much more than that though. Some are calling for her to be fired from her job at Jackson Memorial Hospital.”

    Unlikely online concerns, by what I presume are level-headed men, will be acknowledged.

    “”You could be a beautiful person but one day you have a problem, the job or the family or the boyfriend, and you change that day. But that doesn’t mean you’re a bad person,” said Ferro.”

    Enter the White Knight to save the day. Others like him will ensure this incident keeps her from paying the price any man would pay for such actions.

    By the way, would that argument hold up in a domestic dispute where a man has similarly assaulted his wife?

    I thought not.

  157. Kevin says:

    @Hawk&Rock
    “Secondly, I don’t know a single person “pining for” a collapse or trying to make one occur. This is an absurd straw man fantasy.”

    You mean, other than this very thread, right?

    You make a good point that the wheels can come off a civilization. Germany would be the best modern example post-world war 1. Thats the only western one I can think of. But even the Germans after world war 2 basically went on. People talk about Hobbsian/walking dead kind of situations and they don’t really happen outside of war, plague, natural disaster. Any of those could happen, but I would bet on slow decline. Currency collapse is awful, but countries go through it and still survive without descending into the type of barbarism where suddenly the value of masculinity sky rockets and men are needed as men. I don’t think that is in the cards.

  158. Casey says:

    Correction:
    Ferro was a woman in the article………so not White Knighting.
    Rather she was just making bullshit excuses for the collective.

  159. anonymous_ng says:

    @Casey, you are correct about the bullshit excuses.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The exec who filmed the rant at the Chik-Fil-A drive through hasn’t been able to find a professional position since getting fired for posting his video. The Taco Bell VP who assaulted the Uber driver is suing the driver for filming him, and is probably in the same boat as the first guy.

    Here we have an attractive young woman. Will she face adult consequences, OR, will she get off because vagina?

  160. Pingback: Incentives | Christianity and the manosphere

  161. Dave says:

    Miami resident MD gets caught on video attacking Uber driver.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/miami-doctor-anjali-ramkissoon-youtube-video-uber-driver-florida/

    Guess she’s going to have to go seriously down scale to find a husband who will pay her worthless medical school bills since she’s (likely/hopefully) never going to work as an MD; at least not in the US.

    She looks and sounds drunk. Not that that excuses her behavior, but it could explain it.
    But she is going to practice again in the US. She won’t even be fired. As soon as she “seeks help”, she will be exonerated of all bad behaviors.

  162. Anonymous Reader says:

    Something to think about the next time one has to go see an MD – if she’s female, could she be like this one? How should a man react to a woman with a white lab coat, with access to his medical files, an ability to prescribe treatments, who might just also have a Cluster-B personality?

    And by the way many med schools mandate a 50% female ratio in the student body. So female docs will become more and more common in the future.

    Which reminds me of a joke:

    Q. what do you call the person who graduated dead last in his or her med school class?
    A. “Doctor”…

  163. Hawk&Rock says:

    “You mean, other than this very thread, right?”

    Find a single quote in “this very thread” that supports your contention that anyone is “pining” for a collapse.

    Straw man BS. Just like Splashman’s contention that people who would choose not to support this system are “lazy”. Haha

    Also, I’d read a little more about the Weimar hyperinflation. We may have different ideas of what constitutes barbarism.

    I suspect that when the EBT cards stop working, a lot of people in the wrong place at the wrong time are going to find out what barbarism looks like.

  164. enrique says:

    Soldiers of Odin, “manning up” or being rational?

    If they wanted to game theory this out, the right way, they would do just enough to make a difference, then when Left wingers (and feminists) criticize, STOP doing anything, and let the people see the difference.

    I’m embarrassed by these Muslims, it’s sickening.

  165. @Feeriker: “Neither Cynthia nor any other individual woman is ever going to admit any culpability or negligence in the success of feminism nor urge any other women to do so.”

    Nominating another thread winning quote. Ain’t it the truth!

    A recent conversation with my battle axe- lawyer wife who only recently got around to (acting) submissive (occasionally):

    “I am a Christian woman and was never a feminist.”

    “Of course not. My special snowflake never took a “sex roles” class in college, and she never ushered young girls through their abortion without parental consent through the legal aid defenders, and you were always submissive and have always been sexually compliant during our entire marriage.”

    The look on her face was one of complete confusion. Wait, you are questioning my past behavior? How is that even possible?

    “Well I never went to any protests…….”

  166. Anonymous Reader says:

    Interesting that the jackets have “Soldier of Odin” in English rather than in Suomi.

  167. The Question says:

    I think we should also keep in mind that while we are trying to get the Church to understand our perspective, we have to realize that they have incentives, some of them perverse, to ignore us or dismiss what we say.

    The manosphere likes to use The Matrix and the Red Pill and Blue Pill as analogies to describe what’s going on, but for some men it is more akin to John Grisham’s “The Firm.” Married men are those in the firm who discovered only after passing the point of no return that they are working for the mob and they will have their lives destroyed if they ever try to leave or go to the police, i,e. divorce, alimony, child support. They know everything we say is correct but they would be ruined if they were to side with us.

    These men are not going to agree with us no matter how logical, factual, or correct we are because it isn’t about the truth; it’s about them saying what needs to be said to prevent a personal disaster.

    I have seen this myself when a man who I thought was utterly Blue Pill in his thinking speak Red Pill truths in private that might have come straight out of Roissy’s blog. In public, he went back to speaking typical AFC beliefs.

    At some point, I think, a lot of men cease to be Blue Pill in the sense that they are no longer ignorant about the FI but they continue to act like they are out of fear or resignation. They know the Matrix isn’t real, but they choose to remain plugged in so Agent Smith doesn’t come to destroy them.

  168. feeriker says:

    Anonymous Reader says:
    January 22, 2016 at 1:10 pm

    BINGO. I wonder why anyone with eyes, ears, and a functioning brain stem would ever believe that American medical schools aren’t being dumbed down like every academic program in order to ensure that sufficient numbers of the “most underrepresented” people get to play quack.

    There’s a reason (several of them, actually), why I haven’t set foot in a doctor’s office for nearly five years.

  169. AR

    also strange that they didnt use some Uralic alphabet characters, which actually would seem a bit more threatening given the whole Genghis Khan ish connection

  170. feeriker says:

    Interesting that the jackets have “Soldier of Odin” in English rather than in Suomi.

    “Sotilaat Odin,” if Google Translate is rendering it accurately. Enough of a cognate in English to get the point across, I suppose.

  171. thedeti says:

    @ The Question:

    Robert Greene’s “The 48 Laws of Power”. Law 38: Think as you like, but behave like others.

    Your Blue Pill AFC friend appears to be at least trying to adhere to Law 38.

  172. Jeff says:

    If you grab your lizard and slap a feminist, you could save 15% or more with Geico.

  173. joshtheaspie says:

    @Splashman
    “All you “let it burn” types make me barf.”

    Okay? And? This matters why?

    —–

    “If Jesus actually believed as you, he would never have driven the money-changers from the Temple.”

    “My disagreement with let-it-burn types is not with the diagnosis, but the solution. Let-it-burn types believe that current society must be destroyed, in the hope that someday, a better society will emerge. Along the way, they ridicule folks that believe that it is possible, through hard work and sacrifice, to change our society for the better, and thus avoid a grand experiment that may or may not produce the desired result in the following millennia.”

    Actually, there are several times in both the old and new testament where God brought people back to him, in large part, by exposing them to hardship, or even to being conquered, and pulled out of their country. If he would do this with Abraham’s people, with whom he had a specific covenant, how is America too good for similar treatment?

    Empires and great societies have predictable life-cycles, which include periods where people rail, and try to shame people into doing ‘what people have always done’, and decry them for not doing what the traditionalists wanted, instead of serving God, and preparing for the tough times to come. And yet out of the fall of each of these empires came renewal.

    Both the Roman and British empires tried to force men into marriage through legislation. They failed to enact the results they were looking for.

    The experiment would be in trying to magically find a way to deny the patterns of history by doing exactly what people have done before.

    —–

    “Question: Which mindset is healthier? Meaning, which mindset is more likely to lead a person to develop good habits, as related to life in general?

    1) “No hope. I can’t do anything. Let it burn. Things will magically get better someday.”

    2) “Things are bad, but I can help things get better.””

    False dichotomy, combined with straw-man.

    I can just as easily phrase things as follows.

    1) Live as though Jesus may come tomorrow, and the trials and tribulations of revelations may be around the corner. Prepare my soul, prepare for hardship, focus on improving myself, rather than trying to force other people to bed to my will through laws and shaming.

    2) Work myself fat at a stress-filled job, then go home to a wife and kids that further drain me, making my health worse and worse, and neglect my own sins and flaws, while yelling at other people for not making the same choices I did in life.

    —–

    Sooo, since you’re here, posting, and communicating, what is your purpose? Are you trying to vent and validate your own feelings to reduce stress? Or are you actually trying to be convincing?

    ——

    @Kevin
    “People talk about Hobbsian/walking dead kind of situations and they don’t really happen outside of war, plague, natural disaster.”

    We’re talking about disorderly collapses, of which “teh zombeez11!!11” is only the most extreme type, and is only used as a point of comparison and how prepared you are. Other types of disorderly collapses have happened as a result of hyper-inflation, and other kinds of economic collapse.

  174. Disillusioned says:

    Soon young men will realize that earned respect is based purely on the ability to intimidate and bully people. Conservative and civilized norms and values will not be worth anything. Society will devolve and people will wonder what happened.

  175. RICanuck says:

    @SCC

    I have had similar experiences with my wife. What you are experiencing is demonic. I could not turn my marriage around until I recognized that my wife was under demonic influence, not posession but influence. Your wife is starting to veer into full fledged possession.

    You will go through the closest you can get to the fires of Hell on this world. The target of the demonic attack is YOU. The demon or demons wants you to surrender your faith in God and come to hate him. That is why the attack, using your wife includes a lot of God talk. The attack will attempt to make you think you are some kind of evil, and that God hates men.

    I suspect from your comment that you are a Christian of some sort. You did mention that you are unchurched. Do not go looking for a church to help and support you. When your wife does the God talk, and is able to know things that are private to other people the other women will think she is some kind of saint. The women will work on their men to shun or correct you, because you do not realize what a good and holy wife you have.

    My advice is free, and I hope you do not need to sink into the depths of despair that I did.

    First, you need to realize that you cannot fight a demon. They have powers of intellect, and spirtit that we cannot even imagine. You need the support of God, and his angels. Do not count on the support of other men, except for those who have gone through what you have gone through, and damn few will admit it.

    Your own sin gives evil spirits an opening to assail you, and those you love more than life itself. Whether you are Catholic or not, look on the internet for an examination of consience. Read it with a humble heart and examine which sins you have committed. If you are Catholic, take advantage of Sacramental Confession, but ignore the priest’s suggestion to make you feel better or seek counseling. Confession kept me alive, or else I would have killed myself knowing that all husbands are hated by God and will go to Hell. If you are not Catholic, read the penitential Psalms. An internet search will identify them quickly. Some will speak to you more strongly than others. I prefer De Profundis (Psalm 130).

    Next and at the same time pray. I found that the Memorare helped me, and sustained me. If you are Protestant I advise Ephesian 6:10 – 18, put on the armour of God, for our struggle is not against flesh and blood. Memorize it. Every time you feel despondent, because of your family situation, every time you speak to your wife, whenever you wake, whenever you go to bed repeat your preferred pray. Every time you say your prayer, ask God and His angels to protect your wife and children from the snares of the Devil, and to protect you from temptation.

    You are to love your wife, and that doesn’t mean warm fuzzy feelings, it means wanting whats best for her, and that is eternal life with Christ, the love of her children, and the respect of the community.

    May God be with you. Yours in Christ, and the defense of marriage, RICanuck.

    You may ask Dalrock for my contact information.

  176. Kaminsky says:

    @The Question,

    Good analogy with The Firm. Your take has to do with guys who know where they’re at and are simply protecting themselves, financially and otherwise. A logical take about logical men. They know it’s too late to backpack around Europe and pull off some male version of Eat, Pray, Love, whatever that entails. So they’re just protecting themselves, laying low and living for that three fingers of single malt in the evening and little else. Golf here and there. Watch a game here or there and avoid devastation. That’s not my take on married men in general, just my take on guys who know the blue pill screwed them but have assessed their situation and have decided (wisely) to stand down.

    My take is on some other blue pill clingers who are staying wholeheartedly in that Trad-Con “Happy wife, happy life,” “Let me ask the boss,” self-deprecating chuckle-fest to avoid an avalanche of regret. Regret is an absolute bastard of a thing. It can hurt on a very deep level. Most of us know that, I’m sure. Imagine the looming monster of regret that could crash down on blue pillers if they were to acknowledge that avoiding marriage and children is a valid life option. Most will dismiss it outright, not because it’s fair, right or logical to do so, but because that damn holding back their regret couldn’t withstand it one iota of ‘could have been’ when they’re yoked to some growling bitch stinking up their house with ice cream gas. Guys in that situation use a big fat blue pill as a shield for their psyche. Basically, ‘There was no other option, so chill’ self-talk.

    I don’t have a kid and sometimes when I see someone’s little four year old girl, I’m just amazed at how much you could feel for your own child. It would be an amazing set of emotions that my own (satisfying) life will never approach. I acknowledge that but I’ve made my decision. I take the pain of my decision and recognize what I’m missing. Blue Pill ‘Man Up’ types don’t. That’s my beef. They make their decision and dismiss anyone who doesn’t choose as they did with; “Peter Pan, loser, fag, anime-whacker’ or whatever insult. It’s a cop out to me.

  177. Splashman says:

    @Hawk&Rock: “Find a single quote in “this very thread” that supports your contention that anyone is “pining” for a collapse.”

    Okay.

    greyghost says:
    January 21, 2016 at 8:04 pm
    The solution is death and lots of it. Look at how far Europe has fallen. It gets worse with a double down and a double down to fix it. When the people with the power of life and death are red pill and put an end to it due to their position of authority we have hope.

    Does anybody proselytize a solution they don’t pine for?

  178. Splashman says:

    @RICanuck, great response. I second every word you wrote.

    To expand on your definition of love, here’s mine: “Wanting the best for him/her, and willing to sacrifice to help him/her achieve it.”

    The depth of a relationship can be measured by just how much one person is willing to sacrifice to help another.

    (And before anybody assumes I mean love is giving wifey everything she asks for . . . uh, no. Love sometimes requires giving wifey nothing she asks for, and making her life absolutely miserable. Just like God does to us sometimes.)

  179. joshtheaspie says:

    Does a man with a gangrenous leg, far from a hospital (or in the third world or a prior age) pine to have his leg amputated without anesthetic? Or does he dread it, but acknowledge it as the best chance to save his life?

  180. Anonymous Reader says:

    My take is on some other blue pill clingers who are staying wholeheartedly in that Trad-Con “Happy wife, happy life,” “Let me ask the boss,” self-deprecating chuckle-fest to avoid an avalanche of regret. Regret is an absolute bastard of a thing. It can hurt on a very deep level.

    Cosign on this. However regret only deepens and embitters. The solution is to see women as they are, not as a man wants them to be. To embrace the “is” and put away the “ought”. It is easy to see, unfortunately, too many men in the androsphere, including some on this site, who apparently find the “is” too horrid and prefer to cling to the “ought”. This is ironic, because in Bible terms, clinging to what women “ought” to be is a thing of a child, and putting it away is putting away childish things. A true “manUP” exhortation should specifically include calling things by their real names, such as “man”, “woman”, “leader”, “follower”, and so forth.

    Clinging to pretty lies is like leaving a bandaid over a festering wound because one is afraid to peel it up and see what’s underneath. The wound won’t get better that way, in fact it may start to smell funny eventually.

    One stage of coming to terms with the reality of men and women is anger, and that often leads to regret in some forms because of the “IF I’d known THEN what I know NOW, then…argh!”, it is important not to get stuck there. Regret as a cautionary tale could be useful, “I’m not making THOSE mistakes again”, but even there it should be minimized.

    It’s hard to unplug when the whole world is full of lies, but it is essential to do so.

  181. JAG101 says:

    @SCC
    Your wife should have a medical checkup. A sudden change in behavior can indicate some kind of health problem.

  182. acorean says:

    i would like to tell u my experience and i know im no the only one. im a virgin-until-marriage and i clearly remember when i would tell people this (friends) and i wouldnt be shamed, i would be respected for it and wouldnt be made fun of…nowadays its nearly taboo to talk about this or even tell anyone for fear of them shaming me, and maybe even blurting out “u think ur better than me?”, even “christian” people,even a pastor!! in fact i read online on a “christian” forum an article expressing that people who abstain till marriage shouldnt think theyre better, its what theyre supposed to do anyways, however fornicators are JUST as honorable as u, and even on our level…
    i really do respect a sinful person, a fornicator who has changed their ways and is truly repentant, it must be hard to do so…but a person who thinks theyre on my level,a nd deserve the same respect as people like me, who abstain and wait year after year? while u get to sow ur wild oats, then u should get the SAME exact respect? and yet….isnt this whats been happening for decades already? men marry fornicating women everyday, some who have slept with plenty of guys….and so why am i not surprised when young girls dont think its even worth it to wait until marriage…nobody appreciates it anymore, not even christians….men ALSO need to stop rewarding bad behavior, its simply not all women’s fault as the man-o-sphere loves to portray….but i see men are just waaaaay too thirsty to not cater to women’s every whim, or maybe i should say every slutty women’s whim….i remember a saying from my home country: “if she’ll sleep w/u (before marriage), she’ll sleep w/ others too”, and they wouldnt marry a fornicating women…trust me women were VERY chaste when this was in effect. men were more logical and honorable and wouldnt reward sluttiness….those day are long gone i see

  183. feeriker says:

    …yoked to some growling bitch stinking up their house with ice cream gas.

    DAY-YUM, I’m stealing that one!!! ROTFLMAO

    I might just insert the word “demonic” between “growling” and “bitch,” though.

  184. Dban says:

    @SCC my ex-mother-in-law went through something very similar. God was talking to her, telling her evil things about her husband of 35 years. When my ex-brother-in-law was telling my this my response was that demons are real, possession is real, demonic influence is real and that psychotic breaks are real. Beyond head spinning around projectile vomit you can’t tell one from the other (or perhaps they always come together) so I would attempt to try to get her professional help and also pray. Remember that she is God’s property and your wife so pray and protect her and don’t give into despair. Read your bible also, God has delivered many from worse situations and your faith will be tested. If this is a demon possession then the whole point is likely to turn you from your faith in God to misery an despair. Wash your wife in the word.

  185. Pokesalad said, “A small foreshadowing of this can be seen right now in Cologne and elsewhere in Europe….where hundreds of women were sexually assaulted and….guess what…the Govt Daddy who was supposed to defend them…..did nothing. That’s your “reality.”…..one that a woman invited in with open arms, by the way.”

    The icing on the cake was Gov’t Daddy telling women THEY needed to be more understanding about the whole affair. LOL.

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