Guilty if charged

As I noted in my last post, for a husband to be acused of abuse, even with far fetched charges, is to be considered guilty of those charges.  The Christian media’s reaction to Pastor Abedini’s wife accusing him of (among other things) sexually abusing her by looking at pornography and abusing her from inside an Iranian prison cell demonstrate this truth.

Religion News Network’s headline reads: Why imprisoned pastor’s wife kept her marital abuse a secret — until now.  Having convicted Pastor Abedini in the headline, the RNN article presents Episcopal priest Justin Holcomb as an expert on the subject of Christian abuse.  Holcomb explains that women rarely make false charges of abuse (emphasis mine):

[Holcomb] cites research that indicates one in four women will experience abuse in an “intimate partner relationship.” Holcomb advises pastors to talk more openly about domestic abuse, be accessible to abuse survivors, and collaborate with social agencies and law enforcement.

Abuse is one of the most under-reported crimes, he said. “It is extremely unusual for someone to lie about these kinds of claims.”

This would of course be startling news to anyone involved with the family courts, where it is an open secret that women use domestic violence accusations to give them a powerful strategic advantage.  As divorce attorney Gregory S. Forman explains in Five Ways to Get a Spouse Out of the House:

Since Domestic Abuse orders are quick and efficient methods for getting a spouse out of the house, they are subject to abuse. Spouses will often attempt to prompt or instigate fights in order to call the police and set up domestic abuse proceedings.  Since much domestic abuse becomes a “he said/she said” swearing contest, it is important to protect a client from false allegations of domestic abuse.

Charismanews writes in Naghmeh Abedini Claims Abuse, Halts Public Support for Imprisoned Husband Saeed (emphasis original):

So, many of us are involved here in a way that perhaps we often are not. So it’s worth our consideration about how we respond.

Second, we have to ask, what do we do now?

I think that there are five things we need to do in this situation.

1. We need to care about the accusations and the situation. It matters that a wife has spoken up. We should take seriously any accusations from those who speak up about abuse. Therefore, we are hurting with Naghmeh in this moment.

However, even though he is presumed guilty, we should of course still want to see him released:

2. We still need to care about religious liberty, and Pastor Saeed still needs to be freed. Yes, regardless of what happens going forward, his image is now “tarnished.” He, like all of us, has always been flawed. And no person, regardless of his or her flaws, should be imprisoned for sharing his or her faith.

Shattered Magazine picks up the same theme in Pastor Saeed Abedini Isn’t Perfect, Naghmeh Says, But We Still Pray (emphasis original):

Now, though Naghmeh asks supporters to continue praying for Saeed and his release, she will take time away from the public eye to heal from abuse and marital conflict.

Should We Still Pray For Saeed?

It’s a question that brings Christians to a “What now?” stand off. Saeed Abedini, a pastor we’ve highly regarded for his bravery and unswerving faith in the face of intense persecution, isn’t as perfect as we once thought. Do we reject Saeed because of his moral failure? Or do we continue to support Saeed, a Christian imprisoned for his faith, through prayer and advocacy?

In our disappointment in Saeed and sadness for Naghmeh, it would be easy (and tempting) to forget about Pastor Saeed because of his indiscretions, deeming him unworthy of our support. But we would be forgetting one important thing: Nobody is perfect.

All of this is a harbinger of what we can expect moving forward.  Pastor Saeed is presumed guilty of absurd charges, even though he isn’t able to effectively respond to the charges.  Further advocacy for his release will therefore mostly be “private” (following Naghmeh’s lead), and those media articles which do discuss his imprisonment will need to focus at least 25% of their copy on the importance of always believing women and the need for pastors to preach on the imminent threat every Christian husband poses to his helpless wife.  Another 25% or more of the copy will need to be dedicated to questioning if/why we should advocate for such a man to be freed, with the obligatory final decision that yes, we should, because even though he is a wife abuser we still love him.

This entry was posted in Attacking headship, Domestic Violence, Pastor Abedini. Bookmark the permalink.

117 Responses to Guilty if charged

  1. rugby11ljh says:

    Abuse is hard for the victim and the perpetrator.
    Being called out on it helps in dealing with change and self grow.

  2. Minesweeper says:

    They seemed to have missed out that this is just the 1st stage of her initiating a divorce.

    Funny that.

  3. Trust says:

    Yup, false allegations of abuse and sexual harassment are rare. In fact, the only known cases uncovered by the media and accepted by feminist grouos were false allegations against Clinton. What a coincidence.

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  5. okrahead says:

    Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar would be proud.

  6. Bruce says:

    I’m shocked that an episcopal priest would cite “research” about abuse against women in an “intimate partner relationship.” Perhaps mister Holcomb has even experienced abuse in his intimate partner relationship.

  7. The Question says:

    “All of this is a harbinger of what we can expect moving forward.”

    It’s also a perfect litmus test for a prospective wife. Show her the stories and watch her response; see where her concern is the most. Who does she sympathize with? Does she automatically believe the wife, or is she appalled that a man is having his reputation dragged through the mud while he languishes in prison for his faith and is unable to defend himself? Is she confounded by the wife’s accusations, or does she attempt to rationalize them, possibly without even realizing it?

  8. okrahead says:

    Job suffered as a direct result of not only being righteous, but being the most righteous man in all the earth. His wife and friends condemned him in his suffering, and in so doing became pawns and tools of Satan. May this woman and these writers receive the same rebuke and opportunity to repent as did Job’s friends.

  9. — “It is extremely unusual for someone to lie about these kinds of claims.” —

    Family Courts are extremely receptive to such accusations when made by the wife. Indeed, they offer such great advantages to the wife that some divorce lawyers have advised new female clients to file such charges even if they’re untrue. In the usual case, the husband has no way to prove their falsity, and no other recourse.

  10. HayeksGhost says:

    20 bucks says there’s she has found someone else. There’s another guy involved.

  11. Asteriks says:

    Again, I recommend that in all cases like this — whether involving Christian publications or not, whether right-leaning, left-leaning, or other types of periodicals — people (including Dalrock himself?) write letters to the editor, trying to bring a modicum of common sense to the debate…

  12. Ras al Ghul says:

    I think a lot of people are going to be surprised when Jesus says “I don’t know you”

  13. Looking Glass says:

    I flashed back to a thought I had some time ago, and it seems appropriate to this discussion:

    “Hell is too nice of a place for many declared Christians.”

    Also, of the quoted parts, there’s two subtle assumptions that I’ve run across, a lot, and it bothers me to no end.

    1) Only a “perfect” person is worthy of prayer under persecution.
    2) The vicarious utility of the person is the only important part of their being.

    #1 is functional idolatry of the other person and one’s self. Something that shouldn’t surprise us, but #2 is something not noted a lot. I have a lot of experience with #2, seeing as I’m disabled. These days, I really don’t like telling the story because for far too many people (especially Christians), it’s an exercise in being a “victim” through vicarious means. It’s a sick form of empathy that’s incredibly common to Women. (It’s also extremely insulting because a conversation rapidly devolves from explaining your situation into being an emotional prop to the other person. )

    Though the Charisma News article’s comments give me some hope. Most of them smelled a rat really fast.

  14. Gunner Q says:

    “1. We need to care about the accusations and the situation. It matters that a wife has spoken up. We should take seriously any accusations from those who speak up about abuse.”

    Because Saeed is clergy, the Bible prohibits entertaining accusations against him unless brought by multiple witnesses. THAT should have been point #1.

  15. stickdude90 says:

    From the Religion News article:

    An American citizen and the mother of two children, Naghmeh Abedini said the abuse began in 2002. The two were married in 2004.

    So, we’re to believe she married someone who had already been abusing her for two years before the marriage?

  16. Solomon says:

    reminds me of that “believe the children” campaign

  17. snowdensjacket0x0x0 says:

    My ex wife became very abusive in that last year. I had no idea what to do. No one believed me and very few of my (old) friends eventually did. I was never abusive. Rather I was that pathetic hated on dedicated loyal beta husband. Yet I was charged with several counts of domestic violence.

    I went online to talkaboutmarriage for help where I was accused of being secretly abusive. My bishop accused me of being ‘secretly’ abusive. Everyone turned on me for leaving an abuser.

    Lol you know the only person who was there for me during that hell? It was one of my fake wife’s secret friends. A married woman who lives in Vermont. That’s it. Even my own family turned on me.

    My ex continued to torment me after I left her. Committing identity theft against me. Damaging my property. Trying to get me to meet with her in person, which I did while recording everything and with witnesses (thank God). When I took hard proof of her felony crimes against me to the police do you know what the police detective told me? Lol! She told me I deserved it! She told me I was “probably a rapist” and that I was a man so I was surely an abuser.

    The police detective told me straight to my face that if I didn’t disappear she would work with my fake wife to frame me for a crime. I am not joking. She called me a rapist and threatened to frame me for a crime and put me in jail!

    I beat her false charges by proving she was lying. Did that fix anything? Was the damage undone? Did anyone tell my fake wife that she had done wrong?

    Lol. Lol.

    Abuse? Oh if only I was abusive! If only I had raped my fake wife! I might still be married. I might get to see my son more than when I go take him from daycare.

  18. Zippy says:

    So this guy started abusing his wife two years before she voluntarily said her wedding vows in front of the world, and he is capable of conjuring pornography and projecting abuse on the poor thing from an Iranian jail cell.

    He must be one of the most powerful X-Men yet.

    The narratives don’t even bother with a perfunctory nod in the direction of objective reality anymore.

  19. Red Knight says:

    HayeksGhost nailed it. She is manufacturing a moral pretext for divorcing him so she can go for another guy.

    I was thinking about what her motivations might be, only thing I could come up with was that she was trying to make a martyr out of herself, portray herself as the ever-devout wife who has been campaigning for his freedom even as she is allegedly abused. Now I feel stupid for the possibility of there being a love triangle having eluded me.

    Can she divorce him in absentia? That’d be particularly devious.

  20. JDG says:

    So this guy started abusing his wife two years before she voluntarily said her wedding vows in front of the world, and he is capable of conjuring pornography and projecting abuse on the poor thing from an Iranian jail cell.

    He must be one of the most powerful X-Men yet.

    There is an alternate theory.

    From the Charismanews article comment section:

    “Plus they [the Iranians] secretly jet him home to beat up his wife…and back to prison.”

  21. JDG says:

    “Do not receive an accusation against an elder, accept in the mouth of two or three witnesses” – (1Timothy 5:19)

  22. greyghost says:

    Look on the bright side. If the Iranians believed he kicked his wife’s ass maybe they will think he is worthy of release and deport him to the US.

  23. Opus says:

    Which is worse for Pastor AbedinI: breaching Iranian National Security or breaching that of his wife? Of course Abedini was asking for it; he, an American citizen, an apostate to Islam, yet decided to preach the Gospels in Iran; it is not as if even in England we are not averse to imprisoning Xtian preachers when they read in public from the Gospels or point out the weaknesses in Islam, and I recall reading of an American in his own country who decided literally to turn weapons into plough-shares and was not thanked for his pains other than by a term in prison, so how much more risky must it be in Iran.

    It looks to me therefore as if this has more to do with Politics than Religion, especially when President Obama can jaw-droppingly say on behalf of Pastor Abedini that the Iranians are forcing the Abedini children to grow up without a father.

    I had a look at the appropriately named Nag Me on her Twitter page and I would say that this is a case of ‘Don’t you want me Baby:’ you recall,’ I was working as a Pastor in a far off land, that much is true etc’. That’s right: Nag Me has been hob-nobbing with Senators and the like: she is becoming a star in her own right. Saeed (whose release is surely imminent) has served his purpose and so now it is time to ditch the patsy and before she goes wall-banging to head for the heights and what better way to do that than add the Victim Merit Badge to her large collection of previous Badges. She might not be my type but the camera loves Nag Me; who appears to spend most of her time at her Boudoir,.

    So, I had a look at the Twitter of Pastor Holcomb. Casually, I observe, he is keen to airbrush-out both Paul and Augustine as they are Patriarchal Chauvinists and has himself written an E-book available at Amazon all about abuse of females; in fact his Twitter is obsessed with abuse of women. The expression Pussy-begging Mangina does spring to mind, and I would guess the pussy he is now aiming at just might be Nag Me’s.

  24. Paniym says:

    You know when my wife was trying to justify divorcing me she finally came to the conclusion that I was an abuser. This was complete news to me. We had never discussed it before. Of course it wasn’t physical abuse because you would have to have evidence to support that. But…….Emotional Abuse is a different story. Anything and everything is now considered emotional abuse including verbal arguments and anything the wife claims as abusive.
    There is no counselor or pastor who would dare question the veracity of the allegations. If she FEELS like she has be abused then you (the husband) are guilty.

    Again as I’ve mentioned in other posts I was married for 35+ years. And now I can tell you that if your wife wants out she will find a way to get out (or more likely get you to move out).

    I’ve been a totally dedicated Christian for 45 years and now I’ve totally given up on the concept of marriage for any man. I counsel every young man to not get married. So I guess I’m covertly counseling him to have a LTR monogamous relationship but absolutely not to get married.

    So I guess your only choice as a young Christian man is to commit fornication and try to have a relationship with a woman that the church would consider sin. I would counsel you to try to form a monogomous relationship with only one woman who you are faithful to. This in my mind would be a truly Godly marriage in the sight of God. It’s just not recognized by the state or mainline Christianity.

    Boy…..I’ve become jaded……….


  25. 25% of their copy on the importance of always believing women…

    1 Peter 3:1-2 Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear.

    Yep, if she is complaining about her husband she is violation of the Bible’s commands for wives.

    ….and the need for pastors to preach on the imminent threat every Christian husband poses to his helpless wife.

    I wonder text a pastor might use to provoke women to see their husband as an imminent threat. Maybe Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.

    I do know several verses that teach that a wayward wife is a threat to the household, but I cannot think of one about the husband being a threat to the wife. Maybe the real abuse here is the abuse of scripture by the white knight feminist Christians.

  26. Anonymous Reader says:

    I’m beginning to experience shock and awe. The battlespace that Saeed faces, if the Iranians ever release him alive, has been completely shaped. He’s convicted of multiple things in absentia – Star Chamber, anyone? There’s no way his side could even remotely get out. The sisterhood of the churches has total control of the narrative thanks to the shaping of this story from the start.

    The way this story is playing out I believe we need a new term. What we are seeing is not rebuilding the mound, it’s Pre-building the mound.

  27. BC says:

    Just within family, I have seen my mother (four-time divorcee), sister (two-time divorcee), aunt (four-time divorcee) and cousin (one-time divorcee, daughter of said aunt) loudly claim domestic abuse during the course of a breakup/divorce. Furthermore, each of the multiple divorcees claimed it multiple times. Imagine that.

    Every single case was denied by the man and thereafter found to be false.

    Every. Single. Case.

    In contrast, my other sister once confided to me quietly and in a very ashamed manner that she had been abused sexually and physically by a boyfriend in her early 20s. Given her personality and what I later found out about the situation, I am certain she is telling the truth. She is over 40, never married, and while I have counseled her at length, she is reluctant to even start a relationship due to fear and trust issues.

    I believe that there are cases of actual abuse, but I absolutely do not believe and will no longer help or even associate with anyone who loudly proclaims it, especially not when doing so profits them.

    Cui bono.

  28. Jim says:

    “Holcomb explains that women rarely make false charges of abuse”

    Lie #1

    “[Holcomb] cites research that indicates one in four women will experience abuse in an “intimate partner relationship.”

    Lie #2

    “Abuse is one of the most under-reported crimes, he said. “It is extremely unusual for someone to lie about these kinds of claims.”

    Lie #3

    Holcomb. Do the world a favor and die of a heart attack or something. The world has enough pussified liars as it is.

    Stop getting married you dumb ass males. Avoid these scandalous skanks. You’re nothing but a slave in your own house….idiots.

  29. Jim says:

    “So I guess your only choice as a young Christian man is to commit fornication and try to have a relationship with a woman that the church would consider sin.”

    Well, remember….the fornication thing was written when the entire world was patriarchal. It would be completely stupid for God to expect men to live with the same rules when women are allowed to do literally anything they wish. Would I rather be married and not commit fornication? Hell yes! But we don’t live in that world anymore. For the first time in history the wife has absolute power over the husband. That means the responsibility, and I mean ALL of it, falls on her and government worshiping Christians who back the evil state. I mean what hell is a man supposed to do? Get married and hope that there is an outside change he won’t have to live as a slave in his own house? No thanks.

  30. PokeSalad says:

    “Better to live on a corner of the roof of an Iranian prison than share a house with a quarrelsome wife.”

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  32. JDG says:

    “Abuse is one of the most under-reported crimes, he said. “It is extremely unusual for someone to lie about these kinds of claims.”

    “Abuse” is one of the MOST misused terms of our time. It has also become one of the most meaningless.

    It’s pretty hard to report a “crime” that you didn’t know was a crime as feminists yet again try to change the definition of a word in order to portray normal human interaction into bad behavior, particularly when done by males.

    Getting a man’s kids wasn’t enough.
    Getting the vote wasn’t enough.
    Getting male jobs wasn’t enough.
    Getting into male clubs and schools wasn’t enough.
    Getting male headship wasn’t enough.
    Even becoming men wouldn’t be enough if it we’re possible.

    The sooner we get women out of what used to be men’s spaces, the better.

  33. Minesweeper says:

    snowdensjacket0x0x0, terrible , wish you had taped that idiotic female cop and got her fired

  34. Easttexasfatboy says:

    Poke Salad! Quarrelsome wife, indeed. Here’s the nitty gritty, as us country boys like to say…..young men really don’t have a chance for a family the way we did. Raising a family makes a young man work hard, and that hard work benefits society. That’s dying out, and the social problems that young men will face are severe. This feminised society hates them. And is going to produce a horrible crop of radicalized young men who are feral. Excellent candidates for ISIS.

  35. enrique says:

    Although I am Sufi, I routinely listen to Islamic, Christian and Jewish podcasts to learn more. One of the ones I have listened to, including tonite, was Steve Brown Etc, which has Justin Holcomb as one of the team. I’d be curious if anyone had contacted him (or planned to) at http://justinholcomb.com/about/ I’ve really appreciated the righteous calling out of many folks in common culture, particularly by Red Pillers (such as their battle against/during GamerGate, Sarkisian [sp?]) and the likes. I hope Justin is never accused of abuse.

    This Iranian gal, as noted in prior post, is simply creating a narrative in order to inoculate herself from criticism when she dumps the pastor (if you can really “do” that in such a situation), and publicly drops support for him and moves on.

    Like co-evolution between the Cheetah and the Gazelle, the fact that such abuse claims are ALWAYS taken not just seriously, but as Gospel Truth, in family court and the public sphere, only serves to make them more useful and prolific (just as women fighting for children in family court that are only doing it because of the societal pressure to HAVE the children…which of course only further feeds the perception). It would have been easier if this woman could merely, even somewhat selfishly said, “Look, I’m tired of fighting, I love him and want him out of prison, but I want to move on in life”. That would have been more honest…like the chick in Castaway who thought her husband (Tom Hanks) was dead. But…she doesn’t HAVE to do that, since abuse claims are readily available.

  36. mike says:

    If looking at pornography is sexual abuse, then a wife continually rejecting her husband is sexual abuse and grounds for divorce.

  37. mmaier2112 says:

    Wow…If this evil broad got randomly raped and murdered while accusing her jailed husband for abuse… I’d probably chuckle about it.

  38. ray says:

    “Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar would be proud.”

    Well based on the OP perhaps Mrs. Bildad re-upped?

    May the LORD deliver his servants from the prince of Persia.

  39. >@Jim: “the fornication thing was written when the entire world was patriarchal. It would be completely stupid for God to expect men to live with the same rules when women are allowed to do literally anything they wish.”

    I have also argued this point. Jesus said no dissolution of marriage except for adultery. Except the “marriage” he was addressing was a very different institution than “marriage” today. The apologetics and self flaggilators cry that Jesus word is true no matter the time and while this is true, His word is always true but His word was never meant to apply to this Frankenstein monster that is modern marriage.

    Even Moses allowed you to give a bill of divorcement.

  40. Rum says:

    When the power grid goes down or the whole grid goes down – for any one of several reasons – Christian Ministers will be on the shoot-on-sight list. Along with multi-culturalists, open border advocates, convicted peedoofils, high profile SJWs, or even garden variety geto thugs.
    I am totally joking, of course. Ha ha, effing ha!

  41. Darwinian Arminian says:

    “Pastor” Justin Holcomb is a hack researcher who has spent years specializing in pseudoscience on “abuse” like the information given by Dalrock; in the past he’s even called for Christians to cast a harsh eye on the Super Bowl because an event that attracts so many men automatically makes it “possibly the largest sex trafficking event in the U.S.”

    That aside, he does deserve to be recognized as an expert on the subject of Christian abuse. He should be, especially after he spent years being employed by, studying under, and working with a man already regarded as one of the greatest modern practitioners of it. Who would that be?

    This guy:

    While he has never to my knowledge expressed any remorse over his past association with good Pastor Mark, I’m guessing he’s not terribly proud of it anymore — his website bio scrubs all mention of the many years he spent as a somewhat prominent employee of Mars Hill Church. They even published his first book (Driscoll himself provided a foreword for it).

  42. @ PokeSalad

    “Better to live on a corner of the roof of an Iranian prison than share a house with a quarrelsome wife.”

    DINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDING!!!! WE HAVE A WINNARRRR!!!!!! I LOL’d when I read this. TY.

  43. Ernst Schreiber says:

    Even Moses allowed you to give a bill of divorcement.

    Because of the hardness of our hearts.

  44. Cane Caldo says:

    These articles would be the (easily found) articles that Liz accused me of hiding…on the Internet.

  45. Panzer101 says:

    I for one am proud of how the Religion News Network was willing to allow that Pastor Abedini still deserves to be released. It’s truly heartening to see them connect the dots and decide, after careful study, that the man still ought to be released, despite what he did to his poor, abused wife. I’m sure the prayers they are sending up go something like this: “Lord, thank you that I am not a wife-abusing sinner like this man. But please mend his wicked heart and release him from the Iranian prison so that he can come home and begin serving his true and just sentence: unending debtor’s slavery to his soon-to-be ex-wife. May the alimony and child support be set high and the father’s parenting rights reduced to one weekend a month. In Jesus’ name we pray, Amen.”

  46. Panzer101 says:

    “And, Lord, if there be any mercy left in this cruel world, may Pastor Abedini’s wife find a REAL MAN who can ‘fill her spirit’ up, and may he take Pastor Abedini’s place with his wife in the bed of the house he built, and may they throw away all of his belongings and offer nothing but pity for that wretched sinner while he rots away to his death under the boot of the Iranians. Amen.”

  47. BradA says:

    Snowden,

    Your ex-wife’s actions after you separated were despicable, but they were not abuse. It does not good to stretch the term other ways. They were immoral and criminal, but you were not physically harmed. I also doubt any serious psychological harm.

    A thief that steals your car while you are not in it is a thief, but he is not an abuser.

  48. Jim says:

    @bluepillprofessor “I have also argued this point. Jesus said no dissolution of marriage except for adultery. Except the “marriage” he was addressing was a very different institution than “marriage” today. The apologetics and self flaggilators cry that Jesus word is true no matter the time and while this is true, His word is always true but His word was never meant to apply to this Frankenstein monster that is modern marriage.”

    Exactly. It’s not even marriage really. It’s just a female master-man slave arrangement, enforced by the feminazi state. And it’s destroying the fabric of society. That’s how you know it’s not legit. It’s got the word “marriage” slapped on it.

  49. Jim says:

    Correction: It’s just got the word “marriage” slapped on it.” That doesn’t make it a real marriage.

  50. Isa says:

    @ Opus
    Speaking of pussies, a quote from a fellow Brit on how exactly one could commit sexual harassment from another room.

    “Greebo fully clothed still managed to communicate the nakedness beneath. The insouciant moustache, the long sideburns and the tousled black hair combined with the well-developed muscles to give the impression of the more louche kind of buccaneer or a romantic poet who’d given up on the opium and tried red meat instead. He had a scar running across his face, and a black patch now where it crossed the eye. When he smiled, he exuded an easy air of undistilled, excitingly dangerous lasciviousness. He could swagger while asleep. Greebo could, in fact, commit sexual harassment simply by sitting very quietly in the next room.”

    I second you on the he was asking for imprisonment bit. Seriously, what exactly was the end goal of preaching in Iran beside a couple converts, jail, and martyrdom…? Although since it was a pretty sure martyrdom, is it still martyrdom or merely suicide? Interesting philosophical question.

  51. Scott says:

    @ BC

    I believe that there are cases of actual abuse, but I absolutely do not believe and will no longer help or even associate with anyone who loudly proclaims it, especially not when doing so profits them.

    PTSD is like this too. I wish I had been on the DSM committee this last time around so I could argue the case for a rule out/malingering criterion like “a person who is truly suffering from PTSD is not likely to use clinical words like ‘re-experiencing cluster”‘ or ‘sleep disturbances.’ Instead they tend to hide the fact that they are suffering these symptoms. They do not come in with a memorized checklist.

    When a soldier is in my office and announces “I need to get my PTSD documented. I have really bad startle reflex and hypervigilance” I start looking very suspiciously a their story. Its the ones who are suffering in silence, trying to make it through the day without showing how difficult their internal experiences are that really need help.

  52. JDG says:

    Seriously, what exactly was the end goal of preaching in Iran beside a couple converts, jail, and martyrdom…?

    You really don’t know? Isn’t one soul saved from hell worth even the worst torment one can receive on earth?

  53. enrique says:

    Darwinian Arminian:

    Driscoll pointing a finger in authoritarian disgust/admonishment is priceless (the tag pic for the video). Min 1:20 forward is classic Southern Baptist style condemnation (I don’t care what they call it now), which almost ALWAYS indicates, from my own personal experience in life with such men and pastors, serious unresolved issues the guy has with his parents and women.

    If Driscoll wasn’t doing this, and he’s not any longer, he’d be a half-wit infantryman going around screaming at dudes just out of boot camp, playing tough with the naive, while real men fought the battle. What’s worse, he’s the type that fake bravery upon return.

  54. Bruce says:

    “Jesus said no dissolution of marriage except for adultery.”

    Fornication not adultery.

    “Except the “marriage” he was addressing was a very different institution than “marriage” today.”

    Christ restored marriage to it’s original state as it was in the beginning.

  55. Yoda says:

    Wonder if the Iranian prison serves sammiches I do.
    Perhaps made by women in burkas they would be

  56. Blaine Scogim says:

    Saeed is not hear to defend himself. So we do not know if these allegations are true or false. But consider this. The nan is in the worst hell hole in Iran. He has been beaten, torured, and taesered. He suffers from internal injuries being denied medical treatment. The he is in constant pain. Add to the fact there is the psychological and mental torture of seeing prisoners hung on a daily basis. Their bodies let strung up on the gallows in the courtyard as the prisoners go out for fresh air. In view of what Daeed is suffering. I doubt very seriously if his mind is on pornography. For that matter how he would have access to it. Given that this is an Islamic country where he is imprisoned. I think Saeed is more concerned with daily survival. Then how to abuse his wife Nagmeh.

    My thoughts.

  57. thedeti says:

    Brad A:

    Snowden’s ex’s actions weren’t physically abusive. But they were manipulative.

    Snowden said:

    “My ex continued to torment me after I left her. Committing identity theft against me. Damaging my property. Trying to get me to meet with her in person, which I did while recording everything and with witnesses (thank God). When I took hard proof of her felony crimes against me to the police do you know what the police detective told me? Lol! She told me I deserved it! She told me I was “probably a rapist” and that I was a man so I was surely an abuser.

    “The police detective told me straight to my face that if I didn’t disappear she would work with my fake wife to frame me for a crime. I am not joking. She called me a rapist and threatened to frame me for a crime and put me in jail!

    “I beat her false charges by proving she was lying. Did that fix anything? Was the damage undone? Did anyone tell my fake wife that she had done wrong?”

    The described conduct is plainly a pattern of conduct devised and undertaken for the specific purpose of manipulating him and psychologically injuring him. They were a series of actions specifically designed to terrorize him, through threats of criminal charges and jail time, into backing down from positions he’d taken. This is psyops. This is psychological warfare. There couldn’t be a clearer case of emotional and psychological abuse.

    The message was very clear: “Do what I want, give me what I want. If you don’t, I’ll use the criminal justice system, the police and the courts to royally jam you up, mess up your life, and see you in jail. Do what I want or I’ll see to it you do hard time in prison.”

    That’s abuse.

  58. Minesweeper says:

    thedeti says:”The described conduct is plainly a pattern of conduct devised and undertaken for the specific purpose of manipulating him and psychologically injuring him. They were a series of actions specifically designed to terrorize him, through threats of criminal charges and jail time, into backing down from positions he’d taken. This is psyops. This is psychological warfare. There couldn’t be a clearer case of emotional and psychological abuse.

    The message was very clear: “Do what I want, give me what I want. If you don’t, I’ll use the criminal justice system, the police and the courts to royally jam you up, mess up your life, and see you in jail. Do what I want or I’ll see to it you do hard time in prison.

    That’s abuse.”

    Seconded, maybe Brad only thinks its abuse if a man does that ? Reverse the roles in this and he would be doing time in the pen with a restraining order to boot. Unfortunately the law just regards this as normal female behaviour and will reward her for it.

  59. embracingreality says:

    I’m no fan of a “pastor” like Saeed Abedini who puts himself in what was almost guaranteed to be harms way unnecessarily. He was foolish there and I won’t believe God specifically told him to go there. He will though, as will his wife, swear up and down that every notion that pops into their heads are God’s divine leadings.

    Regarding the pornography, almost anything vaguely sexual can be labeled by manipulative women as ‘Porn!’, especially a woman building a case to justify divorce. The woman may have caught him gazing at the ladies underwear ads from Target one to many times, now he’s an abuser. These same women who denounce a man over the slightest indiscretion may be consuming sexually explicit romance novels by the basket full.

  60. GK Chesterton says:

    This is probably the most horrifying betrayal I have ever read. It doesn’t quite rise to the level of Judas but is a near miss. This is the Ninth Circle of Hell.

  61. >That’s abuse.

    Isn’t it amazing that men STILL refuse to acknowledge the torturous mental abuse that is NORMALIZED in modern society so long as it is a woman psychologically abusing a man! A woman can commit crimes, torment continuously, commit perjury, lie to the police, terrorize her husband with the legal system, take away his children, take his home, his property, and DESTROY his entire life, and men STILL say:

    “Well that isn’t really abuse! Man up and quit complaining.

    Yet when a man doesn’t even raise his voice to his wife a single time she claims “emotional abuse” and not a SINGLE white knight questions her story.

    Real fair fight we got going! Women do whatever the Hell they want with full sanction and encouragement of the Herd. The Herd and the White Knights RUSH to her defense. Meanwhile, men with a HORRIBLE story of constant emotional and psychological abuse over YEARS are told:

    “Well that isn’t emotional abuse. Man up and marry those sluts. Take up your cross and follow Jesus and accept your suffering in this life. Jesus suffered on the cross so get up there and squirm on them nails so you can be holier than thou cuz if you complain, you are not being like Christ dude.

    No thanks.

  62. fakeemail says:

    Dalrock, a very interesting article that could use your expert analysis.
    http://broadblogs.com/2011/12/12/men-who-hate-pretty-women/

  63. Minesweeper says:

    @BPP, I can concur, every word you have said is appallingly\disgracefully\disgustingly true.

  64. Chris says:

    “Your ex-wife’s actions after you separated were despicable, but they were not abuse.”

    Guys like you are why women like Abedini’s wife exist.

  65. theasdgamer says:

    The Hamster is powerful in the churchians.

  66. JDG says:

    Guys like you are why women like Abedini’s wife exist.

    No, that would be people like you. People who think women can do no wrong, redefine everything to (falsely) make men look guilty and women innocent, and encourage women to forsake their vows and with their own hands tear down their own houses.

    If you are a man you should be ashamed of your self and just stop it. If you are a woman you should get back in the kitchen and do something useful like make a sammich instead of leaving a drive by comment in a discussion that is over your head.

  67. JDG says:

    Wonder if the Iranian prison serves sammiches I do.
    Perhaps made by women in burkas they would be.

    Yoda – I wouldn’t know, but from what I’ve read about the treatment of prisoners in muslim nations I wouldn’t count on it.

  68. JDG says:

    Chris – If you think my comment was abusive, just stick around.

  69. Pingback: Christian Red Guards | Dalrock

  70. Jim says:

    “@Bruce says:
    November 25, 2015 at 7:36 am

    “Except the “marriage” he was addressing was a very different institution than “marriage” today.”

    Christ restored marriage to it’s original state as it was in the beginning.”

    That was 2000 years ago. Now marriage a pile of shit. It’s legalized slavery.

  71. Minesweeper says:

    @JDG, you may have misread, to me it looks like Chris’s words were addressed to the writer of the text in quotes as a criticism. It could also mean as you have taken it agreeing with the quotes and condemning the guys. Although it isn’t entirely clear.

  72. Minesweeper says:

    @Jim, “Now marriage a pile of shit. It’s legalized slavery.”

    Could the slave owner take your children from you to never see them again ? have you work until you drop dead? yes your right, its just like slavery.

  73. JDG says:

    @JDG, you may have misread, to me it looks like Chris’s words were addressed to the writer of the text in quotes as a criticism.

    Minesweeper you could be right. IF this is so then Chris I apologize.

  74. Isa says:

    @JDG
    I do understand, although I was being a bit sarcastic. It’s is imprudent for married men to actively seek martyrdom. If it comes to them, that’s fine, but the time for seeking out danger is for before marriage/after bereavement. Otherwise, the primary duty is to be a husband and father and properly husband your wife. She seems unhusbandable though, so he chose badly for a missionaries wife in any number of ways…

  75. BradA says:

    I still don’t buy the stretching of abuse to be anything bad. That would justify may of the female claims in divorce if so. Sorry if that bothers some of you, but we have to watch our terms.

    Are men so fragile that their emotions get into a spin because someone commits crime against them? We know many women claim to be that way, but it is equally bunk when they claim it.

    Seconded, maybe Brad only thinks its abuse if a man does that ? Reverse the roles in this and he would be doing time in the pen with a restraining order to boot. Unfortunately the law just regards this as normal female behaviour and will reward her for it.

    I never said she should be charged with a crime. I only noted I did not find it to be abuse in the traditionally accepted meaning. It might be in the wide description of it we have today, but allowing for that means a man is guilty of abuse if he does similar things. Are you really stupid enough to think I would say that? Neither is abuse. Both are criminal, but not abuse.

    Keep the focus on the right thing and stop raising up straw men to beat.

    Would all of you consider the same situation with roles reversed to be abuse? You should if you are consistent, but I suspect not. I certainly do not. Criminality and abuse or not the same thing, though I keep saying that.

  76. BradA says:

    Guys like you are why women like Abedini’s wife exist.

    You are full of it Chris. You have not read many of my comments here if you think that. Why would I be so skeptical of her charges if I am supposedly enabling here.

    Yeah, JDG, he was attacking me. I guess I should cry abuse….

    But I am a big boy and can handle it. I have seen and will almost certainly see far worse. I stand for truth and correct word usage. Stretching the term like this gives fuel to the fire of those like this lady.

    Some of you may want to consider that people can really disagree with you without being an enemy. But I guess it is easier to pile on, so enjoy it.

  77. feeriker says:

    JDG said:

    Do not receive an accusation against an elder, accept in the mouth of two or three witnesses” – (1Timothy 5:19)

    … to which Jonadab added:

    1 Peter 3:1-2 Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear.

    Yep, if she is complaining about her husband she is violation of the Bible’s commands for wives.

    PLEASE don’t tell me that either one of you seriously thinks that churchian women (a category that includes “Episcopal priest” Justin Holcomb) care about what Scripture has to say. You’ve both been around the ‘Sphere long enough to know better.

  78. feeriker says:

    It’s is imprudent for married men to actively seek martyrdom. If it comes to them, that’s fine, but the time for seeking out danger is for before marriage/after bereavement. Otherwise, the primary duty is to be a husband and father and properly husband your wife.

    I can just hear Isa (or any other churchian wife) now:

    “Hey, God, what the hell is this nonsense with you calling my husband to go off to some hostile foreign land to preach the Gospel? Don’t you know that he’s my husband and that his first obligation is to ME?

    “Okay, so I’m just gonna assume, God, that you were having a bad day and that you issued this stupid, crazy instruction to my husband by mistake and that you meant it for some other poor, expendable single schlub who doesn’t have a wife to take care of.

    “So, c’mon now, God, get it together! I’m gonna give you 24 hours to reverse course and tell my husband to ‘belay my last,’ that there’s no way you’re gonna have him do something that crazy and stupid. If you don’t, and he winds up going off and getting himself hurt or imprisoned because you’d rather have him preach the Gospel than take care of his wife, then, well … I can’t promise you that I’ll continue to play the role of Christian wife. Chew on THAT for a moment, God …”

  79. Isa says:

    @feeriker
    Stop projecting. If a man feels a calling to be a missionary and to marriage, he must find a missionary wife. I.e. someone willing to follow his lead and be husbanded by him to fully support his mission and be in the cell next door to him (I was using the term as in animal husbandry, i.e. taking care of and leading/controlling not some sort of unlimited pocketbook). This type of wife will be even more rare than a decent one, so it is more prudent to be single. Much harm can be done by a woman who does not fully support a man’s mission, as evidenced by this story. Furthermore, in most cultures where missionaries are under a death sentence, an unruly woman reflects directly on the man who is her leader, causing him to lose face and standing, leading to a failure of the mission. One must temper zeal with prudence.

  80. Minesweeper says:

    @Isa says: November 26, 2015 at 1:04 am “@JDG
    I do understand, although I was being a bit sarcastic. It’s is imprudent for married men to actively seek martyrdom. If it comes to them, that’s fine, but the time for seeking out danger is for before marriage/after bereavement. Otherwise, the primary duty is to be a husband and father and properly husband your wife. ”

    Waow, just waow, this again is a perfect example of why women are utterly lost in their understanding on this thread.

    Absolutely unbelievable.

  81. Minesweeper says:

    @feeriker – Isa’s comments are a perfect example of the female ‘Id’. Note the absolutely zero empathy she has for him. he isn’t just a missionary in a Muslim land, he is an apostate muslim turned christian evangelist\church planter, the most hated man in Iran. Considering Muslims consider death to apostates as an obligation to their ‘God’ like we view communion.

    He is utterly living in hell itself.

  82. Minesweeper says:

    Isa’s moral compass is her feelings, and her feelings tell her he has let his wife down. SO screw him.

  83. Minesweeper says:

    @Isa says: ” It’s is imprudent for married men to actively seek martyrdom. If it comes to them, that’s fine”

    We should really construct a meme around this. Its just too good to waste.

  84. Looking Glass says:

    Happy Thanksgiving, to all.

  85. Prof. Woland says:

    “If looking at pornography is sexual abuse, then a wife continually rejecting her husband is sexual abuse and grounds for divorce.”

    With no-fault divorce people do not need grounds. The “abuse” charges are needed for a couple of reasons. One is that it can be quite useful for one spouse (99% of the time women) to use the to get child custody which then can be leveraged into money for child support. It can also be used to get the man out of the house.

    In the case of this Pastor’s wife, she did not need either of those two things because her husband’s imprisonment took care of that for her. Her issue is that as a woman, she always has to be the victim. It does not matter what she does, it always is someone else’s fault.

  86. feeriker says:

    @feeriker
    Stop projecting.

    Sez the woman projecting.

    Incredible (no, not really).

  87. feeriker says:

    Incidentally –and not that I need to mention this to any of the regulars here– Isa’s response to my hamsterlation of her projection could serve as a pro forma script for all churchian wives wishing to reject both their husband’s headship and his decision to lead their marriage and future in response to God’s direction*. And no, I’m not “giving rebellious wives any ideas.” They’re already rebelling, and saying exactly what Isa is saying, albeit not as articulately.

    (* And as Isa has made clear, only wives know what God is really saying, because women are soooooooooooo much more spiritual than men. Only a buffoonish man would be so stupid as to think that God would ask him he put himself into a position in which his wittle pwincess of a wife would have to sacwifice and suffer. Oh, heaven forefend that God would be such a heartless meanie as to do something so cruel! OF COURSE God doesn’t EVER lead married men to do something so unexpected or extraordinary, turning a pack hourse into a race horse, oh no, no, NOOOOO……)

  88. Jim says:

    @feeriker

    Well feeriker, it’s all about them. It always is. They are to be seen not heard. It’s as obvious as the sun rising in the morning. It truly amazes me how long it’s taken even a tiny number of men to figure this out. They’re nor princesses, they’re children and need discipline accordingly.

  89. Chris says:

    JDG, you completely misread my post. I was agreeing that you were the victim of abuse and calling out the individual who said otherwise.

  90. Opus says:

    I can’t see what Isa has said that is anything other entirely sensible (and not just because Isa was kind enough to comment favourably on some at least of what liked what I wrote – I do not by the way recognise Isa’s quote). For an Iranian, an apostate to Islam, and an American citizen, to go to an Islamic Republic and preach the Gospels – even with his abused wife’s permission – is doubtless very brave, and selfless but it is also foolhardy and probably must be incredibly annoying to the average Iranian, and Iranian law seems to forbid what he did even though it does not outlaw Xtianity. He was pushing his luck.

    Most English people get fed-up with Xtian Street preachers many of whom are three slices short of a cut-loaf, and England is a Xtian Theocracy. How much more annoying would it be were we to have to endure Muslims banging on in public about the Koran . We don’t, and they tend to be discreet about their beliefs.

    I realise that Xtians feel justified in preaching their message where ever there are people but that does not make doing so either sensible or necessarily appreciated by the locals.

  91. Isa says:

    @Opus
    Careful now, are you sure you’re not a Churchian wife? I’ve actually been a victim to Muslims banging on in public. Worse as they were black American converts in London. My programme in uni was half Irani/Turkish and you can bet they had opinions on converts going back to the homecountry to preach. Namely, why didn’t they stay in the west as even in Turkey (liberal as it is) was a risky proposition.

    I suspect we agree as the religious part of my extended family is COE complete with a vicar who married in a get up not seen since the Archbishop of Canterbury wore it in 1800. Even he, who accords more with the global south, quite looks down on street preaching. The only place he has been sent was Russia, although perhaps to learn how not to get drunk at 8AM off of vodka. Useful skill for a vic.

  92. Opus says:

    There are places to do things and places not. Americans with their separation of Church and State are more aware of that than most; equally places of Worship are safe from (say) non-believing protesters.

    Street Preaching is perhaps an American thing: Mormons for example wandering round like Charity Muggers aiming to catch souls. One just cannot imagine an Anglican Vicar doing likewise, but where I live, one can see, on a Friday and dressed as if they are Policemen, the self-appointed Street Pastors, hoping for a conversion from an individual drunk, lost or despairing – a kind of Street-theatre.

  93. Isa says:

    @Opus
    I was always sent by my mother to deal with the Mormons. Mainly as I had a friend from secondary who was trying to convert me whilst on his mission trip, so I had the inside track. I especially love the preachers who say nothing but merely stand by the side of the road with some kind of placard. Miming? Performance art? Hard to tell.

  94. Spacetraveller says:

    I ‘get’ the point that Isa and Opus are making.
    The Catholic Church has long taken this stance afterall.

    Not to take away the extreme bravery and courage of Pastor Saeed, and how deplorable that his wife has inexplicably and quite suddenly turned on him!
    It is for exactly the point of Isa and Opus that Catholic Clergy may not be married, and must remain ceibate. Same for religious – nuns and monks.

    My husband’s wish (and this is already a tradition in his family) is for our future son one day to be a Swiss Guard (the ‘army’ who guard the Pope). To already get things started we looked into the rules. Curious we were…

    These are the rules:
    Naturally, one has to be Swiss (at least one parent must be a Swiss National).
    Naturally one has to be Catholic, and have been brought up in the Catholic Faith.
    One has to be male, and have completed Military Service – obligatory for Swiss men anyway.

    And, and this surprised us a bit, although it shouldn’t have – one has to be unmarried, indeed never married at the time of service as a Swiss Guard, as a wife and children may not be accommodated for in the sleeping quarters of the Vatican.

    So for Catholics, Isa’s point makes perfect sense.

    But alas, Pastor Saeed is not Catholic.🙂

  95. Pingback: An Implicit Agreement? | Spawny's Space

  96. Yet Another Commenter, Yet Another Comment ("yac-yac") says:

    […]

    Some of you may want to consider that people can really disagree with you without being an enemy.

              BradA, November 26, 2015 at 1:38 am

    I think this is an important point that many here (and on the Interwebz generally) fail to appreciate.

    There’s a more subtle one, that gets mentioned even less, and that has a great deal of relevance to the complaints on this site (and a handful of somewhat similarly-intentioned ones) that have to do with “churchianity”: “Some of you may want to consider that people can really agree with you [about many seemingly critical things] and yet still be your enemy.”

    Just sayin’

    Pax Christi Vobiscum. (ツ)

  97. JDG says:

    JDG, you completely misread my post. I was agreeing that you were the victim of abuse and calling out the individual who said otherwise.

    Chris my apologies.

  98. JDG says:

    Chris – I wasn’t the victim of abuse (at least I wouldn’t call anything I’ve shared here abuse). I think you got me mixed up with someone else. Were you in agreement with Brad, or was he the guy you were calling out?

    I would like to state for the record that:

    1st – I agree with brad that we can disagree and still NOT be enemies.

    2nd – There is NOTHING wrong with street preaching.

  99. Spike says:

    The Christian media’s response (RNN and Charismanews in this case) is unfortunately typical of mainstream Christianity’s responses regarding any given topic. It is inevitable mushy, muddle-headed and embarrassing.
    War based on bogus WMDs? “Well”, says the clergyman, wringing his hands, “There are just as many for the war as against it, so every Christian should make his decision based on their own conscience…”
    This is an actual quote.

    Pastor Saeed has been imprisoned for his faith. He is fighting the fight of his life for standing up for Jesus Christ. He needs to be freed. Clear cut, right?

    No. The need to free Saeed is secondary to his wife’s “suffering”.
    Mainstream Christianity has lost the ability to discern right from wrong, that Scripture tells us to do.
    The unfortunate fact is, cultural Marxism has so infiltrated Christianity, as it has Western thought in general, that the distinction between God and the Devil can’t be discerned. That has brought judgement on the West and civilisation as we know it will decline.

  100. Chris says:

    The scenario that Snowdensjacket outlined is what I would call abuse. I need bifocals.

  101. Minesweeper says:

    @Chris, well glad we got that sorted ! Spike, no doubt about it, the west has rejected God, worshipped at the god of diversity and liberalism/new age and everything else.

    I doubt God could even find reasons to save us now considering whats been done in out countries – rampant abortion\destruction of families. Feminism = turns out is the devil in disguise.

  102. feeriker says:

    The unfortunate fact is, cultural Marxism has so infiltrated Christianity, as it has Western thought in general, that the distinction between God and the Devil can’t be discerned. That has brought judgement on the West and civilisation as we know it will decline.

    What is especially disturbing is that, when cornered, churchians will admit that this is the case, that the contents or their institutions are indistinguishable from those of the culturally secular institutions that they supposedly are superior to (sand instead of salt, and a burnt out torch in the light upon the hill). Yet whenever this unpleasant fact is brought up, the immediate and reflexive response is self-conferred cheap grace (“well, churches are made up of fallen humans just like everywhere else”) and weak excuses (“we’re part of the culture we live in, whether we want to be or not” – so much for being “in the world but not of it”). And yet they’re constantly baffled by the fact that they’re having no effect for positive change on the world around them, and that they’re always the target of ridicule and antipathy. It now seems obvious to me that churchians of either sex share one thing in common with women: the inability to grasp cause and effect.

  103. Anonymous Reader says:

    What is especially disturbing is that, when cornered, churchians will admit that this is the case, that the contents or their institutions are indistinguishable from those of the culturally secular institutions that they supposedly are superior to

    Not in my experience. I’ve never gotten a churchian to admit that his or her (most especially her) church is Oprahfied. Mostly the response is a blank look, because nobody else has ever pointed that out.

    It’s like asking a fish what water is.

  104. Spike says:

    feeriker : November 27, 2015 at 7:03 am

    Seriously: the response of my church to the Paris atrocities was a suggestion for a “Hug a Muslim” campaign. I’m not joking.
    I put up my hand and told them to learn Apologetics, and that there were very good resources on the Net to confront Islam with. I got a bunch of blank looks, as if I were a creature from another planet.
    Perhaps I am, at least as far as they’re concerned.

  105. American says:

    I have never been accused of domestic violence because of my sure fire way to avoid false charges of domestic abuse from women. Here’s the secret, I don’t cohabitate with them in any way, any shape, or any form whatsoever. My home is MY castle and has never entertained a female.

    They are not welcome in my home and the few times a female I was enjoying the night life with did track me down to my house, I refused them entry over the intercom (never open your front door to a female) telling them that my house was my private space and nobody was welcome to visit me there and then went and watched the rest of the ball game with a couple male friends while they either left or pushed the doorbell a thousand times futilely until they got tired and left. Those who did the latter, I sent a text to and told never to contact me again.

    I don’t have to worry about legal solutions because I ensure that I never have the problem. MGTOW, and everything is 100% copacetic🙂.

  106. American says:

    Spike (November 28, 2015 at 12:26 am), they are ignorant. They don’t understand the hard sacrifice and diligent effort their Christian ancestors expended to dislodge the Muslims from Europe after they invaded in the seventh century taking about half of Europe and enslaving much of the population selling both European men and women all over the world for labor, and in the case of the women also to fill the role as sex slaves.

    From the Battle of tours to Charlemagne to the final eviction of the last Muslim from Europe in 1492, much Christian blood was spent to defeat the followers of a false religious death cult (fabricated in a cave by a young man to circumvent rejection by his tribe’s elders for leadership and gain power, wealth, and women… a trick Joseph Smith would pull centuries later) dedicated to taking the entire world by the sword, human slavery, rape, and deceit (e.g. taqiyya and kitman).

    And honestly, at present, they’re too soft and ignorant to care. Because it hasn’t really affected them and their loved ones yet. As Dalrock’s been explaining, they are ignorant and their exegesis poor. An example would be who actually is one’s neighbor in the Old Testament Jewish context which Jesus Christ taught. They think ISIS is their neighbor and they’re supposed to give ISIS a hug. They really are that far gone.

    Nothing could be further from the truth. Read Whitworth University, Spokane’s Bruner-Welch Professor of Theology James R. Edwards Jr. on the topic to see what a true exegesis should look like with respect to that discussion. He says it very publicly and directly, “they [Christendom] are following the Jesus of their imagination rather than the Jesus of the Bible.”

    Reality; however, will eventually interfere as it always does and if history tells us anything it is that reality is not kind to fools for whom reality can be a very cruel teacher. .

  107. Minesweeper says:

    @American, “Read Whitworth University, Spokane’s Bruner-Welch Professor of Theology James R. Edwards Jr. on the topic to see what a true exegesis should look like with respect to that discussion. He says it very publicly and directly, “they [Christendom] are following the Jesus of their imagination rather than the Jesus of the Bible.””

    Fantastic quote. they are also following the Jesus of their translations. And lets face it, 99% of even what the translations say to do, noone will do. Its sad really, maybe it all goes wrong when they enter into the church grist.

    Jesus did say, the one who has no sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

  108. 2084GO says:

    ” We still need to care about religious liberty, and Pastor Saeed still needs to be freed. ”

    For all religions or only ours? I know Islam only accepts 3 religions as bonafide. They call them “people of the book”, presumably the Old Testament, which means all other religions who don’t have the Old Testament in their cannon are … what happens to them?

  109. 2084GO says:

    “MGTOW, and everything is 100% copacetic🙂.”

    I see what you did there. Hat tip and nod.

  110. cptnemo2013 says:

    Reblogged this on MGTOW 2.0.

  111. Radium says:

    I find the betrayal of Pastor Abedini profoundly disturbing. Barrack betrayed him and the other imprisoned Americans by leaving them out of the nuclear deal. His wife betrayed him with her absurd statements about abuse while he was in prison. And the Christian community betrayed him by not denouncing the retarded statements made by his so called wife. This is a man who is absolutely alone in a hellhole of a prison because he followed his faith and conscience.

    His wife’s betrayal means he will likely also lose any contact with his children once (or if) he is finally released. She would not have made those statements and remained silent afterwards if she did not also intend to also divorce him and move on. She just played the get out of marriage free card while leaving the father of her children to be tormented indefinitely in prison. Pastor Abedini is a man who like Job has now lost everything in this world.

  112. JDG says:

    Christianity hasn’t changed, but the number of people who misrepresent it has.

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  114. Pingback: We need to focus on respect instead of fairness. | Dalrock

  115. Kiz,Scott says:

    The majority of these comments reveal a deep bitterness of wives, or ex wives. Whatever your past experiences with divorce are, to assume all women who claim they are abused are simply working the system and are lying for personal gain is ridiculous. Accusing this woman of wanting another man in her bed or doing this for publicity is is your opinion but the reality is NONE of us knows what has or has not transpired in their house. To make those accusations is to put yourself in the position of all knowing God. Automatically believing her is unwise but also unwise is ignoring her claims.

  116. I wonder how all of you feel now that you have learned that Saeed Abedini pled guilty to domestic violence in 2007. .

  117. Minesweeper says:

    @Dee Parsons (@wartwatch) says:”I wonder how all of you feel now that you have learned that Saeed Abedini pled guilty to domestic violence in 2007. .”

    You do know under the law that if SHE hits him, the all likely hood he will be charged, he prob shouted back at her once with less volume than she was using. Its enough under the Duluth Model to have him in court.

    @Kiz,Scott says:”The majority of these comments reveal a deep bitterness of wives, or ex wives. Whatever your past experiences with divorce are, to assume all women who claim they are abused are simply working the system and are lying for personal gain is ridiculous. Accusing this woman of wanting another man in her bed or doing this for publicity is is your opinion but the reality is NONE of us knows what has or has not transpired in their house. To make those accusations is to put yourself in the position of all knowing God. Automatically believing her is unwise but also unwise is ignoring her claims.”

    you beastly mensz!

    the same factors that we knew she was going to do what she did, also backs up our other assertions.

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