On cue

As I explained in my last post, there is a form of doublethink involved with the topic of how families get broken up. When the discussion is how to hold marriages together, everyone knows the solution is for men to do whatever it takes to stop their wives from getting bored and nuking the family. Marriage counselor Dr. Harley puts it this way (emphasis mine):

Why do women seem so dissatisfied with marriage? What do they want from their husbands? What bothers [women] so much about marriage that most are willing to risk their families’ future to escape it?

Yet whenever the topic is the terrible cost of broken families, everyone knows the problem is men abandoning their children and not honoring their marriage vows.

But each day the amnesia returns again, and as soon as the discussion is about how to hold families together, everyone once again knows that broken homes are caused by women ejecting the father of their children from the family. As Justice Schanfarber explains today in Why Women Leave Men They Love: What Every Man Needs to Know* (emphasis mine):

As a marriage counsellor working with men and women in relationship crisis, I help clients navigate numerous issues. While many situations are complex, there’s one profoundly simple truth that men need to know: Women leave men they love.

They feel terrible about it. It tears their heart out of them. But they do it. They rally their courage and their resources and they leave. Women leave men with whom they have children, homes and lives.

Of course when we talk about women leaving what we are almost always talking about is the woman staying put and expelling the man from the house, as an attorney explains in Five Ways to Get a Spouse Out of the House.  As one divorcée brilliantly put it, divorce is a neutron bomb for men.

Either way, as Schanfarber explains, women’s commitment in marriage is notoriously fickle; it could give out at any moment should a woman no longer feel the spark.  Every child in an intact family could have their lives turned upside down at any moment should their mother become bored of being married.

Your wife is not your property. She does not owe you her soul. You earn it. Day by day, moment after moment.

*H/T enrique

This entry was posted in Child Support, Denial, Divorce, Doublethink, Dr. Willard Harley, Feral Females, New Morality, Threatpoint, Ugly Feminists. Bookmark the permalink.

97 Responses to On cue

  1. Your wife is not your property. She does not owe you her soul. You earn it. Day by day, moment after moment.

    http://therationalmale.com/2015/11/03/christian-dread/

    I think most there have a pretty good grasp of the feminization and egalitarian efforts that have taken root in a religion that still preaches the old set of books to men while simultaneously expecting them to recognize the new set of books for women.

    I imagine a lot of contemporary Christian men would embrace some degree of the MGTOW mindset if marriage weren’t the only doctrinal means for them to have ‘ordained’ sex. Mainstream, pop-culture Christianity loves to adopt and ‘sanctify’ christianized versions of secular social trends, and the Red Pill is no exception. One theme I see repeated on sites like BGR as well as Focus on the Family is a push for married Christian couples to have more sex. Solomon’s tact is literally enforcing Biblical gender roles on couples and therefor obligating wives to ‘Duty Sex’ they apparently are reluctant to have. For the Focus on the Family side, there’s an embrace of men’s constant need to qualify themselves for their wive’s intimacy; ergo making it their fault for their sexlessness.

    I imagine this situation doesn’t bode well with the contemporary Christian young man who actually takes his conviction with some degree of seriousness. Not only does his Burden of Performance include a constant qualification to women in a sexless pre-marriage state (to say nothing of the hormones of youth), he “struggles” with rubbing it out to porn, and then has a sexless marriage waiting for him on the other side of the marriage contract that is all down-side risk for him.

  2. Easttexasfatboy says:

    Yeah, your days are numbered when she says she’s unhappppy. This is why MGTOW is growing. Marital theft and economic rape. Why, exactly, would you marry an American feminist? Oh, yeah, you’ve gone to church with her for 10 years, and she’s not that way…..all American women are that way. Churchy or not. You see, you’re unevenly yoked…..the State is right there with you, on your wife’s side. Do not even begin to believe she won’t ruin you. Chances are, the Pastor is in on it as well.

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  4. rugby11ljh says:

    “You earn it. Day by day, moment after moment.”

    What Rollo said

    Work on performing work on performing work on performing.

    Tommorow is gone it’s today that matters.

  5. Easttexasfatboy says:

    This is what really bothers me…..why even get married, if you know she’s going to bail? And put up with the destruction of your life? Do you think God approves of all of this?

  6. Solomon says:

    You earn her soul everyday? Man, that is not in the Word.

    Idolatry.

    We are supposed to seek after Jesus with all diligence, above all.

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  8. JDG says:

    Your wife is not your property. She does not owe you her soul. You earn it. Day by day, moment after moment.

    Does she have any responsibility in the relationship? Does she have to earn anything? Not in the good ole US of Femtopia. No siree!

  9. Tryggrd says:

    My wife just tried dropping the boom on me. Thanks to those here, I surprised her with my response and she changed her attitude.
    She actually admitted to me that she has been a disrespectful wife and was under the belief that I had no needs. She has expressed willingness to change. She says she not only desires to be more respectful, but is very interested in being more feminine.
    I want to cultivate these traits into her if she is actually open to it. Any suggestions as to how? Would finding some kind of red pill stuff for women be counterproductive? Given hypergamy, can a woman want to be more submissive and feminine or is this just an act due to dread I’ve recently instilled.

  10. JDG says:

    I think most there have a pretty good grasp of the feminization and egalitarian efforts that have taken root in a religion that still preaches the old set of books to men while simultaneously expecting them to recognize the new set of books for women.

    Yep! That about sums up whats been going on for sometime now.

  11. Your wife is not your property. She does not owe you her soul. You earn it. Day by day, moment after moment.

    Her body is my property!
    1 Corinthians 7:4 “For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does…”

    Women leave men with whom they have children, homes and lives.
    WHY?
    Proverbs 14:1 The wise woman builds her house, But the foolish pulls it down with her hands.

    One presuppositional building block to feminist foundations is the placing primacy of society’s individuality over the covenant family. Individual votes instead of household voting, individual rights instead of the rights of the household etc. A natural consequence of the individuation is a striving for individual rights within the household and its outgrowth of the equality of rights and roles for each individual. Nature is not fooled, men and women as individuals are not equal, but united as one they are not just greater than their parts, also they are both necessary. Putting primacy on individuality over family, the oneness of marriage becomes a threat to a woman’s individualization and so she destroys her husband or her the home, those very things that gave her the greatest purpose and meaning in this life, so that she can be her own individual. She comes to resent that God has joined them together and made the two one, and she seeks to either impose her individual control the household (If mamma is not happy, nobody gonna be happy) or to tear it asunder, oblivious to anything but her narcissistic individuality. She cares little about the family legacy, the family name or the inheritance passed to the children, unless they directly affect her social standing, those are not he concerns of the individual but things of the covenant household.

  12. Robert What? says:

    Let’s turn that around and see how well it flies: “Your husband is not your slave. He does not owe you his loyalty and protection; the fruits of his labor; the sweat of his brow. You earn it. Day by day. Moment after moment.”

  13. Paniym says:

    I don’t know why we are all scratching our heads……….If hypergamy is deeply subconscious and hard wired into all women then it all makes sense.
    And Roosh’s theory that the only way to control hypergamy is through strong societal or religious control sadly makes sense. It’s really sad and depressing if Roosh is right but the evidence is all around us. See
    http://www.rooshv.com/women-are-abusive-when-not-socially-constrained
    if your interested. I don’t completely agree that all women are like this but it generally does seem to be the case. I keep holding out hope that God wouldn’t have created women to be this way but it does seem very very common with women.

  14. Paniym says:

    Also meant to inlcude this link as well.
    http://www.rooshv.com/the-true-nature-of-women

  15. Gunner Q says:

    @Tryggrd,

    Thank you for the success story!

    “She says she not only desires to be more respectful, but is very interested in being more feminine. I want to cultivate these traits into her if she is actually open to it. Any suggestions as to how?”

    I’d start with feminine dress like skirts, plus some kind of head covering like the Bible recommends. A flower or ribbon in the hair would suffice, or just a string tied in a circle; no need for fancy stuff in everyday life. Next step would be teaching her that being pretty for you is one of the greatest wifely things she can do, from physical affections like smiling and small hugs to staying thin and not wearing sweatpants. A third step would be asking her to notice when other women disrespect their men. Once she begins noticing their behavior, she’ll probably start noticing her own.

    On your part, try to have more answers than questions and be decisive. I don’t know if you actually need work here but when she’s trying to submit, be sure she has something to submit to.

    “can a woman want to be more submissive and feminine or is this just an act due to dread I’ve recently instilled.”

    Women can improve and in the long run, they’ll actually enjoy it. You might ditch the television or something to keep the whispers away. That’ll make the job easier.

  16. The Other Jim says:

    Somehow I don’t think Dalrock will ever run out of material to write on. From the Rationalization Hamster Cage aka Huffpo;

    “If someone had walked up to me and told me a year ago I would be a 30-year-old single mom with two kids, I would have looked at them like they were batshit crazy.

    A year ago, I was THAT mom — the one who seemed to have it all together, who had it all in some ways: two beautiful boys, a nice home, a good man and father to our kids. I cooked the meals and coordinated professional family photos, planned vacations, sent out Christmas cards, etc. I had a rigid schedule but made time to run and managed to be in decent physical shape.

    But something was missing. In my marriage, I felt alone. Why wasn’t I happy?”

    Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/divorced-moms/i-left-my-husband-for-him_b_8426642.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

    The thing that’s so interesting about women opening up with these confessions about them blowing up their marriages is that they seem totally oblivious to the increasing number of men who read these stories or experience these women directly, and awaken to the reality that marriage(at least what passes for marriage these days) is a serious liability for men. I’ve come to the conclusion that women are so inherently narcissistic they’re largely incapable of empathizing with men or entertaining a non-female primary worldview. Usually these confessional themed articles always end up at rationalizing awful behavior(cheating, aborting their children, blowing up their marriages, etc.). Rollo is correct, women’s innate hypergamy is out in the open.

  17. Easttexasfatboy says:

    Gentlemen, marriage as we have known it in the past is dead. Anyone telling a young man to marry is wrong. Civil insurrection is coming, along with other severe problems……most of the folk here are familiar with the Bible. Do you really believe God will not require this country to pay it’s Bloodguilt? Seriously? Hell is coming to visit, and most of us know it. American women, for the most part, are feminised. As such, they’re infected with the mental disease called feminism. This means they approve of Planned Parenthood and open infanticide. It’s a sad day, but it is what it is.

  18. benfromtexas says:

    Not much optimism in the post or the comments section.

  19. The Question says:

    @The Other Jim

    “The thing that’s so interesting about women opening up with these confessions about them blowing up their marriages is that they seem totally oblivious to the increasing number of men who read these stories or experience these women directly, and awaken to the reality that marriage(at least what passes for marriage these days) is a serious liability for men. I’ve come to the conclusion that women are so inherently narcissistic they’re largely incapable of empathizing with men or entertaining a non-female primary worldview.”

    I have had many personal experiences that confirm this. Everything has t be filtered first through the feminine imperative (how does it benefit women?). Or, a man is experiencing hardship from a uniquely male perspective and they just shrug it off with indifference, perhaps even deride them for it, because they can’t comprehend the notion of suffering in that manner and so therefore it’s not legitimate.

    Rollo Tomasi has written on his own site in the past that women are incapable of empathizing with the male experience – just as men cannot empathize with the female experience. Empathy is based on mutual experience. This is not an indictment of either gender, just an acknowledgment of the constraints and limitations our distinctly separate biological natures impose on us.

    The problem is where one gender believes their experience is the universal experience for both genders and anything other than that is illegitimate. In our society, the female experience is touted as the universal. Accordingly, the male experience doesn’t exist. This makes many of them incapable of sympathy toward men and, in this case, oblivious to how their words and actions impact men’s opinion of them and the choices they make.

  20. Gunner Q says:

    “Not much optimism in the post or the comments section.”

    It’s just Monday.

  21. We are supposed to seek after Jesus with all diligence, above all.

    This is what Christian wives tell their husbands right after they decline his sexual advances.

  22. And Roosh’s theory that the only way to control hypergamy is through strong societal or religious control sadly makes sense.

    Roosh pissed all over TRP by saying “all these guys advocate is Dread and constantly Gaming their wives.” Yet his appeals for controlling women’s Hypergamy through religious stigmatization is just overt Dread by another name.

  23. enrique says:

    It strikes me how similar so many (if not all) of these self-serving blogs and articles and such, written by hampster-driven, solipsistic women sound exactly like Friedan’s original “problem that doesn’t have a name”. It’s in their firmware (as Rollo calls it). Women are designed to be fickle, easily upset, damaged, angered, unhappy, whatever…and men in their lives, since we don’t exert any type of force (even the enforcement of marital vows), nor have the support of the Courts, are kinda just the lingering victims of whatever the tyrant may feel that morning when she wakes up.

    I cringe at all the beta males I know that in their tone and tenor, sound, look and act like Chinese peasants of old, trying to appease the emperor–hoping the tea is jusssstttt right….as they stare at the facial expressions, searching for any cue as to whether you will be executed later in the day. And yet women can even BROADCAST that they are tyrants, essentially, in these blogs and posts, and men will still Captain Save-a-Ho them.

  24. greyghost says:

    Dalrock
    For a Christian family man you sure have a way for advocating MGTOW. You make surrogacy and artificial wombs seem like a logical path for a Christian family man. She is a helper not necessary God allowed us to discover other paths for a reason.
    I bet Japan is the first country to have it to do this to survive due to their extreme adversity to immigration.

  25. With apologies to our host for off topic, I meant to respond to Tryggrd, specifically about red pill for women.

    Tryggrd, red pill for women isn’t the same as men, and I have heard a few horror stories about some sites aiming to be red pill for women, though long enough ago I don’t want to tar any sites if they may have improved.

    That said, red pill sites and christian women sites related to the sphere can still be beneficial. As a woman in the sphere, I found Rollo to be most personally useful, as his somewhat academic and psychological approach helped me to learn more about my faults and frailties as a woman, without putting me on the defensive as other manosphere sites did. Dalrock is excellent, but may not be relevant to her at this point, particularly if she is still on edge and sees how easy cash and prizes are, which is a frequent topic here. Possibly better introduced later, to be more certain what side she is on, so to speak.

    Good, Christian women’s blogs would probably be best, but many of the ones I consider mentors either don’t post much any more, or have shuttered their blogs. Still, the archives are full of good info, so may I recommend Sunshine Mary, Elspeth @ loving in the ruins, Stingray @ verus conditio, Lori Alexander @ Always learning, and Sarah’s Daughter.

    Don’t take my word for it; check any site you are considering and make sure you approve. If other men here suggest other than I have, they probably have the right of it.

    Finally, warn her away from reading comments until she’s been reading for a while, and even longer before she posts anything. Now that I possess a better understanding, comments don’t bother me, and I sympathize much more, but at first, they almost scared me away, which would have been a shame. I have learned so much thanks to the sphere, and even became Christian largely because of the influence of the Christian manosphere. For that, I just want to thank you all for this community and permitting me to learn from you.

  26. anonymous_ng says:

    http://www.feelguide.com/2013/04/29/75-years-in-th-making-harvard-just-released-its-epic-study-on-what-men-require-to-live-a-happy-life/

    Where I got this, the first comment was “What about women?”

    It was hard, but I resisted the urge to write the truth…nothing, nothing makes women happy.

  27. greyghost says:

    To all
    Any society or civilization that treats its most productive and committed civilized family men the way it does deserves to suffer severely.

  28. Anonymous Reader says:

    Jonadab-the-Rechabite
    November 9, 2015 at 4:30 pm

    Her body is my property!
    1 Corinthians 7:4 “For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does…”

    Oh, that’s just part of the mutual submission text. Ask any conservative feminist…

  29. enrique says:

    The Other Jim says:
    “If someone had walked up to me and told me a year ago I would be a 30-year-old single mom with two kids, I would have looked at them like they were batshit crazy.”

    That’s her way of attempting to establish credibility, a common motif in the narcissistic writing of such women…”I’m about to show how self centered I am, but first, I need to make it sound like even I (lo and behold, yes “I”) was to find myself doing so much for myself, just for me. I’m just literally amazed with myself, for opening up so much of myself…my friends even say how surprised they am that I am putting myself first, for the first time ever, and we actually went out and celebrated my independence…for the first time ever, I felt strong, independent and confident. Bob’s a good man, he’ll find a good apartment to rent.”

  30. Anonymous Reader says:

    anonymous_ng, the correct response to that question, “what about women”, is two words: Fried Ice

  31. Anonymous Reader says:

    Counselor “justice” does put a fig leaf at the tail of his little HufferPo piece, basically saying “This applies to women as well”, but it frankly looks like just another “wink! Wink! We all know women aren’t ever to blaim for any failure of a marriage” subtext. Plausible deniability, etc. at work.

  32. HayeksGhost says:

    Greyghost nailed it about MGTOW. Dalrock I wish you’d write that red piil book for christian men with Rollo. I’d love to have some knowledge I could dispense to the younger guys other than to say tell them what they already know that most women can’t be trusted to keep their wedding vows and to point them to Aaron Clarey and Rollo. I wish I had all those years back that I spent chasing women. I wish I would have spent my money and time traveling or something.

  33. BradA says:

    I heard a guest on a local radio show today talking about how “the sex gets better after a long marriage.” While that can be true where both spouses remain committed, it fails if the wife is allowed to sag off.

    I sent him a comment, but I don’t expect to hear back on that. If I do it will likely be of the NAWALT variety or “men do it too”. I did note the latter was true at the end of my comment, but my focus was on the conditions that make marriage unappealing for young men today.

  34. BradA says:

    Tryggrd,

    Keep your frame up is the best suggestion I would make. I am not sure how independent you are, but I did make a few things clear in my marriage and that helped significantly. I am a naturally VERY strong willed individual (I am sure no one here would have guessed that), so it is easier for me. I have been training myself to not argue, but just walk away instead. It is a bit hard at times since I want to deal with things NOW, but I am finding that just leaving works wonders at times. I won’t let that be used to manipulate me either, but I have plenty of things to engage in otherwise, so I do that.

    Do know where you want to fight your battles. Every last thing cannot be fixed. My wife has drastically changed her views in the past few years, but she has many that may never change. Some of that I will just ignore. Others are things that will likely change over time with an ongoing consistent message from me, not always stated outwardly.

    Let me know if that doesn’t make sense.

    Gunner Q has some good points. Though clothing is not really that important to me. My wife remains thin and attractive already. I can’t imagine wanting her to wear any kind of head covering. Gives me images of ugly Amish or Mennonite women. I would freely admit I might not be aligned right on that.

    Other Jim,

    A few women in the comments were holding her accountable. Others were of course blaming the husband, but at least a few did not. That is a change from most such articles that always heap the blame on the man.

    Greyghost,

    Any society or civilization that treats its most productive and committed civilized family men the way it does deserves to suffer severely.

    I definitely agree. We often avoid a lot of what we deserve, but this is one thing that will eventually come home to roost.

  35. BradA says:

    I would also strongly agree with that author’s assertion that she was a better mother for having gone through it all. Only time will tell all her children have missed because of her choices. I know I missed quite a bit when my mom kicked my dad out many years ago. She didn’t seek any other men, but I still lost out on a lot.

    All women are (or at least were) not out for sex, but they still can cause quite a bit of harm even if they remain chaste.

  36. Novaseeker says:

    @TheQuestion —

    The problem is where one gender believes their experience is the universal experience for both genders and anything other than that is illegitimate. In our society, the female experience is touted as the universal. Accordingly, the male experience doesn’t exist.

    I’d say that it goes even further — the male experience is seen as generally toxic, for everyone (men, women, children, animals, the earth, space aliens, etc.), and in dire need of a complete revamp by making it more feminine, in content, by basically redefining feminine traits as “the new masculinity” or “healthy masculinity” — i.e., being a feminine man. Masculinity which is not emptied of its intrinsic content in this way is seen as outright toxic and responsible for every single thing that is undesirable in the world today, full stop. It’s simply misandry, and the verbal/cognitive sleight-of-hand that consists of redefining masculinity by filling it with feminine traits, doesn’t change this — the basis is hatred for men as men are. In order to become unworthy of hatred, men need to cease being men in anything other than a biological sense — that way, we won’t have to hate them any longer.

  37. Spike says:

    Schanfarber is appalling. What the hell, I’ll say it in a Millenial way: Schanfarber sucks.
    So, does it mean a husband isn’t allowed any down time from his job, any hobbies, any games, any fun at all in his life?

    The trap is comprehensive: There is no retreat for men, no place where there is male-only space, no solitude, no disposable portion of income for him. No down time, no napping on the couch, Forget asking for sex.
    This trap is enforced by The State, the Church, The family Law Court, popular culture and the “everybody knows” prevailing wisdom.

    Notice too how Schanfarber doesn’t tell us what women’s obligations are toward the husband (who according to Marriage 1.0 and Scripture IS the property of the husband!). Implicit in it all is the husband can’t even escape his wife’s grinding criticism and nagging.

    My question for Mr Schanfarber is this: Is he married? Does he live up to the expectation of being a machine, not a husband, that he is imposing on husbands?

    My guess is that unless he is a Terminator programmed for domestic duties, no.

  38. Darwinian Arminian says:

    “Your wife is not your property. She does not owe you her soul. You earn it. Day by day, moment after moment.”

    I’m old enough to remember when the church used to put a restriction on sex: If you want it, you have to marry the woman first. The modern age now has an update: You must still marry her first, but after that, make her feel loved, make her feel safe, finish your equal share of the household chores, apologize, lead with humility while giving no sense whatsoever that you are her superior, then jump through an assorted series of hoops to be determined by her alone, apologize again (there will always be a reason, you sinner!) and then — only then — will you have earned access to the marriage bed.

    You know, it’s almost as if they were trying to tell you that the vows and promises she gave you at the beginning of the marriage don’t mean a thing in the world . . .

  39. Novaseeker says:

    You know, it’s almost as if they were trying to tell you that the vows and promises she gave you at the beginning of the marriage don’t mean a thing in the world . . .

    That’s exactly what it is, because the contract is itself, in substance, different. The form has remained the same, but the content has changed, radically, and the church is not only tacitly endorsing this, it’s at the forefront, at the *core* of enforcing the radically new content of marriage, and using the preservation of the external formalities has a powerful tool to do this. It’s deeply evil.

  40. Novaseeker says:

    I’m old enough to remember when the church used to put a restriction on sex: If you want it, you have to marry the woman first. The modern age now has an update: You must still marry her first, but after that, make her feel loved, make her feel safe, finish your equal share of the household chores, apologize, lead with humility while giving no sense whatsoever that you are her superior, then jump through an assorted series of hoops to be determined by her alone, apologize again (there will always be a reason, you sinner!) and then — only then — will you have earned access to the marriage bed.

    When you look at this, you can see just how radically the content of marriage has changed, in terms of what the church is now (largely, not everywhere, but largely) pushing as marriage.

    The description above is not marriage. It is a position of being an eternal boyfriend/suitor, only with permanent/quasi-permanent benefits for the woman. That’s not a marriage. It’s a boyfriend situation — precisely because it makes no sense to have to jump through suitor-like hoops once the suitor phase has been ended by the act of marriage itself. Today there is no marriage, really — just permanent suitor-hood, or a kind of “boyfriend-with-benefits” or “suitor-with-obligations”. It’s not a marriage.

  41. donalgraeme says:

    @ Novaseeker

    ’d say that it goes even further — the male experience is seen as generally toxic, for everyone (men, women, children, animals, the earth, space aliens, etc.), and in dire need of a complete revamp by making it more feminine, in content, by basically redefining feminine traits as “the new masculinity” or “healthy masculinity” — i.e., being a feminine man. Masculinity which is not emptied of its intrinsic content in this way is seen as outright toxic and responsible for every single thing that is undesirable in the world today, full stop. It’s simply misandry, and the verbal/cognitive sleight-of-hand that consists of redefining masculinity by filling it with feminine traits, doesn’t change this — the basis is hatred for men as men are. In order to become unworthy of hatred, men need to cease being men in anything other than a biological sense — that way, we won’t have to hate them any longer.

    I am working on a series of posts which will cover that. Since Eastern Church theology will place a role in their development, I think you might find them interesting.

  42. @Tryggrd: “Given hypergamy, can a woman want to be more submissive and feminine or is this just an act due to dread I’ve recently instilled.”

    No it is not an act. Remember, women live in the moment and are governed by their emotions in that moment. If she runs up against a dominant Alpha type, the default response of any women is to be more submissive and feminine. AWALT. The default response of a wife who runs up against a more dominant and Alpha husband is to actively work on becoming more attractive- aka more submissive and feminine.

    If you want recommendations on books for her to read to help that journey:

    –Me? Obey Him?

    –The Surrendered Wife

    –Fascinating Womanhood

    –First Kill all the Marriage Counselors

  43. @Panieym: ” I keep holding out hope that God wouldn’t have created women to be this way but it does seem very very common with women.”

    God did not make women that way originally. I believe Hypergamy, AF/BB desires, and all the other bad things we observe about women are a result of God’s curse of Eve. He DID say men would be forced to live by the sweat of their brow which I guess the FI now interprets to mean

    “Work to quality every day until they put you in the ground.”

  44. Qualify not quality in that last sentence.

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  46. greyghost says:

    Novaseeker

    Today there is no marriage, really — just permanent suitor-hood, or a kind of “boyfriend-with-benefits” or “suitor-with-obligations”. It’s not a marriage.

    There is no marriage by law. The church is just following the law. And she wouldn’t have it any other way.

  47. Novaseeker says:

    God did not make women that way originally. I believe Hypergamy, AF/BB desires, and all the other bad things we observe about women are a result of God’s curse of Eve.

    I agree. But there is this meme in American Christianity in particular (more common among Protestants, probably, but also not absent in “unofficial” rank and file Catholicism, either) that goes something like this: “If Adam were doing his job as Eve’s husband, she never would have been talking to the Serpent in the first place. Adam wasn’t properly loving, satisfying and guiding her by example, but was ignoring her by leaving her on her own while he was off doing other things (i.e., working to end to the Garden) — that’s why she spoke with the Serpent. Adam was neglecting her.”

    It’s that interpretation of Genesis that informs the mindset among Christian pastors that Dalrock has been talking about, and it’s a thoroughly novel interpretation of Genesis. Paul did not have this interpretation of Genesis, clearly.

  48. @Novaseeker: “It’s a boyfriend situation — precisely because it makes no sense to have to jump through suitor-like hoops once the suitor phase has been ended by the act of marriage itself. Today there is no marriage, really — just permanent suitor-hood, or a kind of “boyfriend-with-benefits” or “suitor-with-obligations”. It’s not a marriage.”

    —This was my epiphany- if marriage doesn’t exist any more as it was known for all of recorded history then the old rules are no longer applicable. Of course the old rules still apply to men but we have a different set of books for women. No thanks.

    @Spike: “So, does it mean a husband isn’t allowed any down time from his job, any hobbies, any games, any fun at all in his life?

    The trap is comprehensive: There is no retreat for men, no place where there is male-only space, no solitude, no disposable portion of income for him. No down time, no napping on the couch, Forget asking for sex.”

    —Bro, why y’all spewing out that neg-a-tivity? It is not THAT bad. The retreat is the knowledge that women control sexual access but men control COMMITMENT. If you pull back on your time and attention and your “presence” AND if you cultivate other options (or have other options naturally available to you) AND your wife gets the thought in her hamster that this pathetic little sick needy bird who voluntarily flew into his cage all those years ago might just be a FREE man, then everything can change.

  49. Novaseeker says:

    I am working on a series of posts which will cover that. Since Eastern Church theology will place a role in their development, I think you might find them interesting.

    @Donal —

    Good to hear — look forward to reading them!

  50. ChildofRa says:

    “Your wife is not your property. She does not iwe you her soul. You earn it. Day by day,moment after moment.”

    i thought according to some christians that I talked to, that a persons’ soul belong to God. So if that is the case then your spouse can’t earn nor own your soul.

    Marriages in this day & age can still work but it would require both men and women to carefully choose their spouses through “vetting” as I have read it on Deepstrengths’ blog. Even after vetting still make sure that person is actually genuine in wanting to follow biblical gender roles, husband being the head of the house & wife being a helpmeet.

    Another thing that might be helpfully is marriage counseling with both a male and female present to aid the couple in the aspects of marriage including the marriage bed cause that seems to be a very big issue discussed among various christian blogs – so sex positivity is key.

  51. bookooball says:

    Wouldn’t really call it an act any more than her other actions. Though dread is the only thing that will keep her wiles at bay because the dread is the only relief of her mate choice insecurity.

  52. Splashman says:
    “We are supposed to seek after Jesus with all diligence, above all.”

    Rollo: This is what Christian wives tell their husbands right after they decline his sexual advances.

    Zing! Bulls-eye.

  53. Dave says:

    all American women are that way. Churchy or not. You see, you’re unevenly yoked…..the State is right there with you, on your wife’s side. Do not even begin to believe she won’t ruin you. Chances are, the Pastor is in on it as well.

    After breaking up with my last American girlfriend last year, I’d had it with American women.
    This woman justified the wife’s actions in Fireproof, saying that the husband had “stopped being a husband to the woman”, therefore she is justified to threaten him with divorce.

    My ex was brought up in a religious home. Her father was a full time pastor.

  54. Splashman says:

    @The Question: The problem is where one gender believes their experience is the universal experience for both genders and anything other than that is illegitimate. In our society, the female experience is touted as the universal. Accordingly, the male experience doesn’t exist. This makes many of them incapable of sympathy toward men and, in this case, oblivious to how their words and actions impact men’s opinion of them and the choices they make.

    Yes. But American society goes way beyond touting the female experience as the universal. The female experience (i.e., “It’s all about me!”) is actually incentivized with cash and prizes, while the male experience is penalized via same. And anything that is incentivized will increase, as surely as the sun rises.

  55. Splashman says:

    @Dave: My ex was brought up in a religious home. Her father was a full time pastor.

    Gee, there’s a shocker.

  56. none says:

    Work on performing work on performing work on performing.

    That sounds like a lot of, well, work.

  57. Cane Caldo says:

    @Tryggrd

    I want to cultivate these traits into her if she is actually open to it. Any suggestions as to how? Would finding some kind of red pill stuff for women be counterproductive?

    You must cultivate those traits in her. As the husband, you must husband your investment. Expect yourself to set the trends, and expect her to follow the trends you set. Under no circumstances would I send my wife to a “Red Pill” women’s site unless I already believed that she was fully committed to me, and to following my perspective on things.

    Given hypergamy, can a woman want to be more submissive and feminine or is this just an act due to dread I’ve recently instilled.

    Just go with it and don’t worry about it. Think of these things as practice in a lifelong process. Your wife has to try to be submissive and feminine before she can succeed at it. She will fail, and sometimes she will not want to submit. Keep setting the expectation, and keep expecting it to be met.

    There’s no cure for her desire to rebel because overcoming that is the plow she has to pull in this life. It is her work, and the work’s purpose is to teach her to rely on Christ; to understand that she needs to be renewed and transformed.

    Your work is loving her by setting the right expectations and by preparing the way (clearing the obstacles you can, leading around the ones you can’t) for her obedience to your expectations as best you can; by loving her when she does them, when she fails, and even when she chooses not to succeed. Love, here, means keep treating her like a wife even when she acts like the enemy, or a baby. This is hard to do. It’s much easier to just “drop it” whatever “it” is at the time.

    We made life Hell for each other for the first half of our marriage, but for about a decade now I have been blessed with an obedient wife. Still, after all these years, there are sometimes moments when I have to say, “Woman, are you going to do what I said or not?” Some of those moments she responds with a acidic sarcasm. That’s where a husband is tempted to “drop it” and perhaps do “it” himself, but that’s where he’s got to nut up, stop whatever else he’s doing and focus on her. “Tell me what is unreasonable about my directions, and what reason you have for not trusting me. Nothing? Well then did God secretly put you under a different husband with different instructions for today? No? Good. Then just do what I said.” And as long as she does, then I forgive her. I don’t talk about it again and I treat her as if she had been doing what I asked all along.

    Sometimes I fail on my part of that, too. I sometimes “drop it” when I shouldn’t, or fail to maintain my peace after an issue has been resolved, or fail to do what I said I would do for preparations so that she could meet my expectations. We just have to soldier on, and resist the urge to quit practicing, and resist the urge to dwell on our failures, or try to calculate the end results of a lifetime process.

  58. MarcusD says:

    Catholicism – Too Feminized?
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=986681

    Article: Regretting Your Marriage Doesn’t Mean It Was a Mistake
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=986718

  59. “Permanent Suitor”, that’s probably the most accurate description of the current situation I have seen.

    I’m just wondering what will happen when the clock chimes and men collectively realise the game has changed and that ‘marriage’ really is just a temporary enterprise.

    Will that ever happen or will the fem collective continue to maintain the wool over the eyes of men?

    What will marriage 3.0 look like?

  60. Whistling past the graveyard of marriage. Never been a better time to stay a permanent bachelor. Thanks ladies!

  61. scientivore says:

    @ Tryggrd: Would finding some kind of red pill stuff for women be counterproductive?

    I can recommend some red pill stuff by women, such as the Honey Badgers and Karen Straughn, but not for her.

  62. dgarsys says:

    Your wife is not your property. She does not owe you her soul. You earn it. Day by day, moment after moment

    Let’s try reversing that and you’ll never hear the end of the screams

  63. Glenfilthie says:

    Well boys, ya got a choice – and contrary to the PhD’s in the warm fuzzies, the new age women and the femcnuts with their boggling hypocrisy, double standards and head games – the way to handle dating, romance and marriage is really quite simple.

    New age thinking destroyed all that, so new age thinking sure as hell won’t fix it! Indulge in this bilge water at your peril.

    Or, you can get in the time machine, go back to the days before women with hairy armpits and bad attitude – to the healthy and wholesome world of your grand parents and great grandparents. Long courtships – reserve sex for marriage, and make sure you know your woman before you bang her. A good woman IS worth the wait, and she will give you her soul unconditionally. Do things the old way, boys – and you won’t need marriage counsellors or even advice from our esteemed host! Thre is no such thing as free love or empowered women – and there never has been.

  64. Dave says:

    You must cultivate those traits in her. As the husband, you must husband your investment. Expect yourself to set the trends, and expect her to follow the trends you set.

    Truer words were never spoken. The way some guys think, it seems that they expected a ready-made woman to become their wives, not realizing that it is their duty to make their women into whatever they want her to be, so that she can please them. If anybody deserves a ready-made wife, it must have been Jesus Christ who has been with God from the very beginning. But what did His father give Him when it was time to get a bride? Why, God gave him broken humanity, and this He must transform into a beautiful bride!

    Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. Ephesians 5:25-28

    Malleability is probably the most desired quality in a woman who aspires to be married, because her husband can easily mold her into what pleases him. A woman who has become inflexible and hard cannot have a successful marriage, because she will resist all her husband’s efforts to make her please him. And, seriously, what would be her job if not to please her husband? Why would any man marry such a woman?

  65. Regular Guy says:

    “Your wife is not your property…”
    Au contraire mon fraire, (1Cor 7:4)

    “She does not owe you her soul…
    No, she owes her husband obedience (Ti 2:5; Eph 5:22)

    You earn it. Day by day, moment after moment.
    No, she’ll submit to her husband even in the case of unbelief (1 Pet 3:1) and if she doesn’t show obedience to God’s commands in her life, she does not have the Lord in her (1 John 2:3). All those who do not know the Lord, including rebellious wives, will burn in hell. (2 Thes 1:7-8) It’s that simple.

  66. feeriker says:

    “Today there is no marriage, really — just permanent suitor-hood, or a kind of ‘boyfriend-with-extremely-limited-benefits’ or ‘suitor-with-permanent, legally binding-obligations”. It’s not a marriage.

    Fixed. And absolutely true.

  67. feeriker says:

    Regular Guy says:
    November 10, 2015 at 8:34 am

    Quoting scripture to creatures who don’t believe in it (in the case of “Christian” women their churchgoing false piety and self-righteousness and empty words to the contrary notwithstanding) is an exercise in almost criminal futility.

  68. Hawk&Rock says:

    @feeriker,

    “Today there is no marriage, really — just permanent suitor-hood, or a kind of ‘boyfriend-with-extremely-limited-benefits’ or ‘suitor-with-permanent, legally binding-obligations”. It’s not a marriage.”

    Permanent legally binding obligations which can, upon threat of imprisonment, subject you to involuntary service to your ex wife for years, and depending on the state, up to and including the rest of you life.

    Is that I-banking job killing you with stress? Would you be a better person and father and live a longer, healthier more fullfilling life working as a schoolteacher or a landscaper? Tough sh*t loser. Pay the percentage of the income the court has imputed to you as an I-banker or go to jail (and lose your passport) you deadbeat scumbag.

    Career choices belong to women and other human beings. You are a monthly check. Period. Now get back to work!

  69. unsigma says:

    I am sure society does not see it as double-think but more as linear thought. You vowed to make me happy not matter if I can consciously tell you what that would require or not, and if I am not happy…well, I still love you but you are not holding to your vows, so I will blow up the marriage, take your money and kids and leave you with nothing. Should have made me happy….

  70. Damn Crackers says:

    “Your wife is not your property. She does not owe you her soul. You earn it. Day by day, moment after moment.”

    Does anybody know what Sura from the Koran this is?

  71. JDG says:

    Does anybody know what Sura from the Koran this is?

    Sura-uffrage 101?

  72. JDG says:

    It’s right next to sura-uffrage 100: men bad, women good.

  73. J1J2 says:

    Divorce is a neutron bomb for women, just with a count-up fuse: 35, 36 ….

    It has recently occurred to me (better late than never) that there is a commercial incentive for women’s unrealistic expectations with regard to marriage (and divorce): the whole “feel good” industry for women. This includes not only chick-flicks and bodice-rippers but also “feel good” articles in women’s magazines. It’s a money-maker. No wonder women these days have less sense about than women used to have a hundred years ago. The regression is commercially incentivized.

  74. unsigma says:

    @ The Other Jim’s HuffPo link

    Funny how “being incredibly alone” made her unhappy in the marriage, but now that she is divorced, being alone is “ok.”

  75. feeriker says:

    Hawk&Rock says:
    November 10, 2015 at 9:08 am

    I only wish that women and TPTB that enable them were honest enough to put it so bluntly and stop insulting our intelligence by talking around/denying the obvious. Then again, that would be the humanly decent thing to do – something of which men are, of course, categorically unworthy.

  76. Pingback: Our slow drift away from marriage. | Dalrock

  77. Joe says:

    Why do women seek divorce? In their hearts, most women seem to be nihilists or at a minimum, simply can’t leave well enough alone. You know how Eve just had to eat the friggin’ apple? Yeah, that. They take counsel of their fears… and their whims and their nagging doubts, and anything else that crosses their wee minds.

    Been doing some renovation work on my house. I’m damned good at it. Yet if my wife shows up and sees a project half way done, she starts to pick and bitch about the overall direction or have a general freakout that it will never look right. I have learned to tell her to leave me alone, it will be fine when I’m done. Having said her piece and having been rebuffed, she leaves. The few times I’ve listened to her whining and tried to placate her by changing course mid-project, it’s created a ****ing disaster in the tile or plumbing or moulding job or bathroom renovation job that has been hard to turn around.

    The old phrase “don’t take counsel of your fears” needs to be updated with, “particularly if your woman is the one supplying them to you.” They think different and one of our jobs as men is to keep a steady hand on the wheel, so that they don’t drive the bus into a tree to avoid a small pothole in a fit of chicklogic. I suspect the reason for a lot of divorces is that they see potholes in the marriage relationship and the guy isn’t keeping a firm hand in place, so she takes the wheel and steers away from the potholes, off the road into the divorce trees. Here, have another ****ing apple, honey.

  78. Tam the Bam says:

    ” if my wife shows up and sees a project half way done, she starts to pick and bitch about the overall direction or have a general freakout that it will never look right.”
    An old, old lady neighbour of mine (born in King Edward’s time, she crossed the street to a church not much older than herself (architect: F T Pilkington) several times every Sunday in hat and white gloves, and dash the confounded inner city horseless carriages, she’d take her own time, thank you very much) confided to me that her father, a successful tradesman, had a maxim. “Ne’er shaw feels (fools) and weemen, work half done”. I have on many subsequent occasions had rueful cause to concede the accuracy of the collective wisdom of those old Victorian craftsmen.
    This was a lady whose own mother grew up in a mud floored crofthouse with a pile of burning peats in the middle, on some dreadful remote island. Consequently, she valued the work of men. “Old set of books” for sure.

  79. Dragonfly says:

    Child of Ra
    “i thought according to some christians that I talked to, that a persons’ soul belong to God. So if that is the case then your spouse can’t earn nor own your soul.”

    I think you’re right, our soul’s do belong to God – both men and women, the whole statement they had made was just off, and biblically incorrect, so that part didn’t make sense as well as the other parts. You’re right about vetting carefully on both sides. Deepstrength’s post that I’ve seen on that was great! And you’re right about the sex positivity and how that seems to plague marriages so much these days with the wives neglecting their husbands in particular. I think I saw you commenting on BGR’s site, but that is a great place for understanding the basics of sex in marriage.

    But yes, our soul’s, both men and women, belong to God.

  80. OKRickety says:

    unsigma said on November 10, 2015 at 10:07 am
    Funny how “being incredibly alone” made her unhappy in the marriage, but now that she is divorced, being alone is “ok.”

    It must not be that acceptable to her, nor is she happy now, as she finishes with “I now know I deserve happiness and will not settle for anything less.”

    I missed that reversal of position in my comment regarding Happiness Entitlement in Commitment Issues (after following enrique’s link to that Huff Post article).

  81. Micha Elyi says:

    [T]here is this meme in American Christianity in particular… that goes something like this: “If Adam were doing his job as Eve’s husband, she never would have been talking to the Serpent in the first place. Adam wasn’t properly loving, satisfying and guiding her by example, but was ignoring her by leaving her on her own while he was off doing other things (i.e., working to end to the Garden) — that’s why she spoke with the Serpent. Adam was neglecting her.”
    Novaseeker

    Romans 5:12-14 is not “particular” to “American Christianity”.

    Generally Romans 5:12-14 is understood to mean that Adam bears the responsibility for the Original Sin. All that “Adam wasn’t properly loving…, but was ignoring (Eve)…” stuff is neither in Sacred Tradition nor the Bible. If you presently associate with a congregation whose leaders teach such stuff, you know what to do.

  82. Tryggrd says:

    Much thanks to Gunner Q, peoplegrowing, BradA, bluepillprofessor, Cane Caldo, and Dave. I may have been a little off topic (therefore thanks to Dalrock too), but your comments were received and appreciated. I’ve got a lot to chew on and action to take.

  83. Dale says:

    @Dalrock

    Your assessments are consistently excellent. I do disagree partly here.

    >When the discussion is how to hold marriages together, everyone knows the solution is for men to do whatever it takes to stop their wives from getting bored and nuking the family.

    True, but there is no doublethink.
    Suppose most people knew that men have to work to keep the marriage together, because they all also knew that women were immature, prone to making decisions that needed to be cancelled, for her benefit, by a wiser man (Numbers 30). In this case, people know women are more immature, and thus more likely to be the root of any problems. Men have to do the work during the marriage, because you can’t depend on the women.
    If these people also thought that marriages that did break up were the fault of immature men, then yes, we would have doublethink, as you put it.

    But suppose most people thought that women were more mature, and that the average man was immature, selfish, and either too lazy or too stupid to be able to think and plan ahead for the future.
    These people would think men have to work to keep the marriage together, because they think men are the weak link. They think men have to change and work to meet the needs of his wife, because the men supposedly were not doing so previously.
    And when the marriage fails, it is similarly the man’s fault, because the immature, selfish, and lazy/stupid man was the problem all along.
    There is no doublethink in this scenario. The wife is “always” the more mature, self-sacrificing, and loving of the two. So if there is a problem in marriage, the man must fix it. And if the wife leaves, it is because the man drove her to it, and he must fix it.

    And we all know which of the above two is dominant in the thoughts of our nation’s people.

    @Feeriker
    >“Christian” women their churchgoing false piety and self-righteousness and empty words to the contrary notwithstanding

    This explains the open, visible rebellion, in church, on Sunday mornings. And the willingness to disagree with Scripture that shows she does not have the right to divorce and remarry, just ’cause the first husband was a drunk, not her idea of ideal, perfect, whatever.

  84. mike says:

    Obviously, the prospect of having to continually be pressured by a herb beta to have sex is so revolting, it’s worth it to chuck it all. I believe that women actually do feel like they are being raped when the man is not attractive to them. Men, on the other hand, seem to have a far greater ability at having sex with the average woman. This is why you must marry a women uglier than yourself.

  85. Dalrock says:

    @Dale

    And when the marriage fails, it is similarly the man’s fault, because the immature, selfish, and lazy/stupid man was the problem all along.
    There is no doublethink in this scenario. The wife is “always” the more mature, self-sacrificing, and loving of the two. So if there is a problem in marriage, the man must fix it. And if the wife leaves, it is because the man drove her to it, and he must fix it.

    Generally speaking that isn’t the argument though. When the discussion is the cost of broken homes, the claim is that the husband walked out, or he is absent for no stated reason (with the implication that he left). For example, as I’ve quoted before, the article Single Moms and the Church opens with:

    As her body crumbles to the floor, she can hardly believe what she is hearing. Her husband wants a divorce. No, not me. Not us. I’ve done everything right. I’ve tried. I really have. A million thoughts rush through her mind as the reality that her world will no longer be the same comes crashing against her. She lies there, crying and helpless, wondering how she will survive financially, what her friends will thing, and how her children will survive without their father in their daily lives.

    This is reality for more than 15 million women who find themselves parenting alone today in the United States.

    This really is a form of doublethink. Remember, we are talking about hurting kids here. This is the outrage that drives the enthusiasm for putting these men in prison, etc. Saying the mother hurt her own kids because her husband didn’t jump through flaming hoops doesn’t work. It makes her look terrible and petty. What kind of mother hurts her own kids? She blew up her family because she was bored or fell out of love? To the extend that it is said that the mother instigated the family breakup, the claim is that the husband was seriously abusive, out of control with addiction, or a serial adulterer. Him not keeping a note pad to write down thoughts during the day isn’t what is claimed.

    I think you will find I’m right here as you look at this in the future. However, if you know of (or find) examples where the discussion is about the problem of kids being harmed and the problem is presented as mothers divorcing men who couldn’t keep them happy, I’d love to see them. I think what you will find is the closest to this is an avoidance of fault. The father “isn’t in the picture”, the family was “impacted by divorce”, etc.

  86. jeff says:

    Mike,

    Your premise is wrong.

    My family literally was shocked by my wife. Yes, she had a 9/10 body, but looks were 6 1/2 or 7. Of all the girls I dated in HS, they thought I would end up with a real beauty. My b-i-l even joked and said he was sure I would have a Christie Brinkley look a like.

    She still treated me with utter contempt after marriage. Things are better now on and off, but I if a woman finally realizes her beta husband is a provider and treats her well she will make the turn. The turn is like turning an ocean going freighter though, it’s a long slow process and sometimes you wonder if it’s worth it and if you are actually seeing progress.

    Even the fatties think their sh*t don’t stink and deserve some sort of Alpha boy. Think about it. It’s not limited to hot chicks. I do know some gorgeous women who have very beta husbands and you can see a genuine respect and love of their husbands. I always just tilt my head when I see it though and I think huh, should’ve got me one of those. Of course they are all outliers. My past gfs were definitely into the hypergamy. I never met an outlier until much much older

  87. BradA says:

    jeff,

    You are right that it is a core belief problem almost completely independent of the woman involved. All I can say is to keep your frame and not put up with stuff, but it isn’t easy even then.

  88. Pingback: What about the fathers? | Dalrock

  89. Dale says:

    @Dalrock,

    I think I understand your view… Your perception is that in many/most cases, the understanding is not that the man was actively abusive, but rather simply that he abandoned the family. Or is absent without saying why, with no fault admitted, and thus no perceived justification for not fulfilling his vows (to remain).

    My thought was rather that, instead of having no fault at all found, the fault is usually found with the man. And not merely failing to honour the vows, but some active emotional abuse/harm.

    A friend of my parents recently left his family. When describing it, both father and mother presented only that “he left”, with the implicit judging of his abandonment; he was entirely at fault. No consideration of whether he was following Biblical advice re it being better to live elsewhere than with a contentious wife. This example would fail within your view however, rather than mine, as they made no claim of abuse on his part, just that he abandoned his family.

    I guess my personal experiences are mostly from speaking to the divorced women, who were mostly quite well able to articulate the faults and failings of their ex-husbands, with abandonment being only one of many.

    Perhaps when people in general speak, not limiting it to ex-wives, your view is correct. I’ll have to be mindful to separate the two groups.

    Unfortunately I will fail your challenge to give many examples where people admit women leave without good reason. Although my (male) friend was very clear about that with respect to his brother’s failed marriage. They are both religious however, so have another anchor on which to base principles/views.

    Thanks for the further explanation.

  90. theasdgamer says:

    @ Jeff

    Things are better now on and off, but I if a woman finally realizes her beta husband is a provider and treats her well she will make the turn.

    Women don’t respond well to kindness from men, unless they have been trained properly. Being strict and harsh and ignoring women works better. Think about how you train dogs and kids. Ignore them when they misbehave and be strict about their punishments. Be harsh about removing benefits. That’s when they respond better. Give a little attention always, but not too much if they are misbehaving.

    Make sure that you have options. Dread or dead!

  91. theasdgamer says:

    @ Cane

    “Tell me what is unreasonable about my directions, and what reason you have for not trusting me.”

    This puts her in the role of Judge. With her status above yours. Do this at your peril.

  92. Cane Caldo says:

    @asdg

    [“Tell me what is unreasonable about my directions, and what reason you have for not trusting me.”] puts her in the role of Judge. With her status above yours. Do this at your peril.

    You may have the tone wrong.

  93. Pingback: Fatherless doublethink | Dalrock

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