All men’s fault

The Daily Mail has a new piece titled The women who haven’t had sex for more than a decade: What it’s like to be celibate and why it’s all men’s fault.  The article features three women who ended marriages or relationships between the ages of 38 and 50, and have not been able to find new relationships since.

Their experience isn’t surprising given the rapidly declining marriage and dating opportunities for women as they get older.  Long time readers already know of the AARP study on late life divorce which found that women who divorced later in life (over 70% of those interviewed divorced in their 40s) very often ended up terribly alone:

Almost 9 in 10 men (87%) dated after their divorce, compared to 8 in 10 women (79%)…  Among those who dated after the divorce, more than half of men (54%) but fewer women remarried (39%). (Page 39)

Many women, especially those who have not remarried (69%), do not touch or hug at all sexually. An even larger majority of women who have not remarried do not engage in sexual intercourse (77% saying not at all), in comparison with about half of men (49%) who have not remarried.  (Page 6)

Over 60% of the divorcées the AARP surveyed hadn’t remarried at the time of the interview, and given the dramatic drop in women’s remarriage options as they age very few of them are likely to remarry in the future.

remarriage_women_age_1990_2011Even worse, sixty nine percent of the women who didn’t remarry said they don’t even get hugs.  Ouch!  The difficulty of even getting this small amount of affection from men came up twice in the Daily Mail piece.  Susan told the Mail:

When friends complain about their husbands pestering them for sex when they’re not in the mood I can’t help but think: ‘You don’t know how lucky you are to have someone who loves you and wants to show it.’

‘My desire to feel a man’s arms around me and be loved, even briefly, is so deep that I’ve even contemplated offering just to have sex with one.

There must be plenty out there who would like a no-strings relationship…

Note that she says she contemplates propositioning men for no strings sex, and that there must be plenty of men out there who would be interested in having no-strings sex with her, not that she contemplates taking any up on recent expressions of interest.*

Suzie (a different woman) explains that while she still very much wishes she could have sex, she has at least found a way to arrange for a man to give her hugs:

‘My passions are still going strong, so I do look at men and think ‘Cor!’ but I’ve not met the right one to settle down with.’

Instead, Suzie, from Cambridge, has a happily platonic relationship with a younger man. She says she gets to experience the joy of having comforting man-hugs and even walking hand-in-hand with him on the many holidays they have had in places such as Crete, Italy and France.

This is brutal stuff, despite the Mail trying to put a happy face on the issue.  Once again it reiterates the profound cruelty of the message that groups like Focus on the Family and secular marriage counselors are selling unhappy wives.  Shirley in the article divorced her third husband because she “felt emotionally unsupported”, only to collapse on the street shortly thereafter due to a uterine fibroid tumor caused by her “promiscuous youth”.  She survived the health crisis, but after fifteen years of celibacy she doubts she will ever find another man.

*Elsewhere in the article they explain that over the last 17 years Susan has been propositioned “a couple of” times for no strings sex but turned them down due to her high moral standards.

Correction:  The women ended their marriages between the ages of 38 and 50, not 36 and 41.

This entry was posted in Aging Feminists, Choice Addiction, Daily Mail, Divorce, Hold my beer and watch this, Post Marital Spinsterhood, Rationalization Hamster, Remarriage Strike, Weak men screwing feminism up. Bookmark the permalink.

293 Responses to All men’s fault

  1. retrophoebia says:

    The equivalent article about men would be a “dog-bites-man” event; not even worthy of noting.

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  4. JDG says:

    All men’s fault

    Nothing new here.

    \\Entering sarc mode
    What’s wrong with you fellas? 1st you cause your wive’s (who probably had multiple partners before they married you) to frivorce you, then you won’t sign on for more fun and games with somebody else’s wife after she frivorced him. And NOW you won’t immorally fornicate with these aging beauties who are obviously single and lonely through no fault of their own. Shame, shame, shame!!!
    \\Exiting sarc mode

    Why don’t you girls put aside your dreams of adultery and fornication and offer to make sammiches instead?

  5. Hawk&Rock says:

    Not buying it. There are soooo many thirsty men out there it is almost unbelievable.

    My ex just turned 43, has 4 (yes 4) kids ages 5, 8, 11 and 13, and since she broke up with the man she cheated on me with, she dates all the time and has no end of interest from men.

    A friend from work just got dumped by a 44 year old divorcee with 3 school age kids. She had been dating several other men while seeing him and picked one of the others over him to get serious with.

    I know another average looking (at best) 41 year old divorcee with two school age sons who dates all the time. Whenever she wants a date, she has one.

    As long as she isn’t 250 lbs and is occasionally pleasant, there will be plenty of men to date and a small percentage of those will even be willing to wife em up.

    Strange but true. A lonely man is a desperate man.

  6. greyghost says:

    Hawk&Rock
    Let’s not confuse getting the pussy with something more than getting the pussy off a baby momma. When you get to one of those old cum dumpsters getting married and a new chump on the hook then we can talk about the power of aged pussy with school aged meal tickets. .

  7. anonymous_ng says:

    Here’s a little bit from that lovable curmudgeon Fred Reed on marriage.

    http://www.fredoneverything.net/DontMarry.shtml

  8. PuffyJacket says:

    Yet another example of the costs of misandry transferring back onto women. It used to be far more common for an older man in a position to re-marry to take a divorced/widowed woman of the same age as his wife, in part because such women were seen as vulnerable and it was viewed as the “right” thing to do. Now men are steadily having this ancient relic of chivalry ground out of them.

    Those numbers are abysmal by the way. Expect them to worsen as MGTOW grows, effectively shutting out more and more women from the marriage market, including those higher up the attractiveness chain (i.e. 30-35 year olds).

  9. Dalrock says:

    @HawkandRock

    Not buying it. There are soooo many thirsty men out there it is almost unbelievable.

    You have a skewed view of reality. The AARP survey team wanted to project the image that late life divorce empowered women and left men all alone. You can see this from the image on the cover. Yet the survey showed that not only were men much more likely to remarry, but that older divorced (and not remarried) men were far more likely to be having sex than divorced women who didn’t remarry. You are making the same mistake women make, focusing on one or two more visible members of the opposite sex and assuming that is how it is for all of them.

    Look at the “true life” divorce empowerment stories. The EPL chick ended up with a short bald man nearly 20 years her senior who married her to get a visa. The real man from “How Stella Got Her Grove Back” was a very visibly gay man who also married her for a visa (and later took her to the cleaners in divorce court).

    Young women have a true advantage over young men in the SMP and MMP, but Rollo’s curve is accurate; the relationship turns the other way with women’s relative SMP dropping dramatically. It isn’t just Rollo’s curve either. OK Cupid mined their data and found the same pattern Rollo’s curve shows. A few anecdotal women don’t change that, and if you look closely even the anecdotal cases usually turn out to be like EPL and Stella.

  10. Hawk&Rock says:

    Let’s not move the target.

    The article is about dating (read: sex) and how old divorcees can’t get it. It wasn’t about who Stella married.

    My experience is that average old women with other men’s children in tow have no problem getting asked out and pumped. Of course it’s anecdotal but I bet many, many here can tell similar stories.

    There is sooooo much thirst out there, only the morbidly obese are having trouble and not even all of those.

  11. Dalrock says:

    @HawkandRock

    Let’s not move the target.

    The article is about dating (read: sex) and how old divorcees can’t get it. It wasn’t about who Stella married.

    I offered stats from the AARP on old divorcées not getting sex, and you offered a few anecdotes. But aside from your seeing my data and raising me a woman you know, Stella is relevant, as is EPL. There is a huge desire to sell the “true life” divorce empowerment tale. That even the true life stories have to be laughably faked is telling, even if there is the rare unicorn who does manage to pull it off.

  12. Anonymous Reader says:

    Yet another example of the costs of misandry transferring back onto women. It used to be far more common for an older man in a position to re-marry to take a divorced/widowed woman of the same age as his wife, in part because such women were seen as vulnerable and it was viewed as the “right” thing to do. Now men are steadily having this ancient relic of chivalry ground out of them.

    There’s some truth to this, especially in the 19th and early 20th centuries when death associated with childbirth was more common. I believe that since mid 20th century widowers have been far outnumbered by widows.

    The problem now is that any woman under the age of 70 is likely to be infected with 2nd stage feminism. Far better for a man to use the rule of (age / 2) + 7 and look at younger women who may not be quite so firmly attached to their political faith, on average. The potential downside is just as bad as with any other statage-et-tois arrangement, aka Marriage 2.0 so men have a right to protect themselves as much as they can.

  13. benfromtexas says:

    There ego is still present. They think they’re some hot 22 yr olds. LOL. Rollo is correct when he says Hypergamy doesn’t care. Female Solipsism is alive and well.

  14. Hawk&Rock says:

    I get it and agree. My point wasn’t that these women are finding it easy to get married. My point was that they are not lonely. OK Cupid, Plenty of Fish etc. etc. Thirsty dudes are everywhere. Everywhere.

    W/r/t marriage — I know for a fact that my ex is definitely NOT looking to marry because that would end alimony for her. She’s having a ball with my money and is the furthest thing from lonely.

  15. Anonymous Reader says:

    Oh, yeah – what price “strong and independent” over the age of 50, eh?
    There is a big, big difference between a woman of, say 65 whose husband died of cancer half a decade earlier and a woman of the same age who frivorced her husband 5 years back, and there’s still another difference between them and the choice mamma who never married. Hey, babymommahood can be fun for a woman in her 20’s and 30’s, but when she gets over 50 and starts looking further down the road as her now teenaged spawn are leaving the home, things no doubt get different.

    I’ve already had some little disagreements in real life with churchians who insist on including single, never married, mothers in the same category as widows. I expect to have more. Because unless a widow got that way by killing her husband, her single status isn’t by her choice. Unlike the never-married babymomma, who made several choices in a row, all of them bad.

  16. Anonymous Reader says:

    OK Cupid, POF and the other dating sites are rather like porn for women’s hindbrains. Online porn can give a man’s hindbrain the illusion of a harem. The dating sites provide women with the illusion of a plethora of men panting to attend to them. So there’s no need to rein in any choice addiction, because of the illusion of infinite choice possibilities.

  17. The Question says:

    Years ago when I was young and took feminists at their word, this sort of article would have utterly confused me. On one hand, I kept hearing how men were dangerous and potential rapists and all heterosexual sex was rape and men were pigs and women needed men like fish needed a bicycle and strong independent women didn’t need men and blah blah blah blah……yet pieces like this talk about how older women are starving for physical intimacy with men, not getting it, and it’s all men’s fault. Trying to approach it logically, I would have honestly wondered, “Wasn’t that the goal? I thought you said it was all rape, anyway.”

    It wasn’t until I read Roissy’s statement on feminism that everything suddenly made sense: The goal of feminism is to remove all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality.

    Only then do you truly realize there is actual reasoning behind the solipsisms, the rationalizations, the argument reframing, the shrieks of accusations and faux outrage, the manufactured “rape culture.” It’s not the result of a poorly thought out ideology. It has a very clear, well defined objective.

  18. Allison says:

    Fibroids aren’t caused by promiscuity, and I really have a hard time takng anything else about this article seriously with that piece of misinformation glaring. I’m going to join Hawk and Rock in believing my lying eyes over the statistics, here. I see divorcees and never marrieds in quality relationships at their choosing. From my friends and colleagues in their 40’s to my 93 year old granny, with my 60-something daycare provider in between.

  19. Dalrock says:

    @Anon Reader

    OK Cupid, POF and the other dating sites are rather like porn for women’s hindbrains. Online porn can give a man’s hindbrain the illusion of a harem. The dating sites provide women with the illusion of a plethora of men panting to attend to them. So there’s no need to rein in any choice addiction, because of the illusion of infinite choice possibilities.

    This would be difficult to overstate.

    And yet, even here the data shows that older women are not sought after. From the OK Cupid article I linked to above:

    I made these calculations in the chart below, and we can see that women have more pursuers than men until age 26, but thereafter a man can expect many more potential dates than a woman of the same age. At the graph’s outer edge, at age 48, men are nearly twice as sought-after as women.

    Brutal.

  20. Dalrock says:

    @Allison

    Fibroids aren’t caused by promiscuity, and I really have a hard time takng anything else about this article seriously with that piece of misinformation glaring.

    I was quoting the Mail article about that. I have no idea if they are right on the cause.

    I’m going to join Hawk and Rock in believing my lying eyes over the statistics, here. I see divorcees and never marrieds in quality relationships at their choosing. From my friends and colleagues in their 40’s to my 93 year old granny, with my 60-something daycare provider in between.

    I think 93 is a new record. Wasn’t the previous best 79 year old knockout?

  21. Allison says:

    No knockout, pretty typical little blue-haired lady. Still wasn’t lonely.

  22. Boxer says:

    Dear Allison:

    No knockout, pretty typical little blue-haired lady. Still wasn’t lonely.

    I concur. I’ve seen really old ladies get anything they want. The caveat is that they get what they want from the man they married in their youth. This is the case among monogamous but old-school Mormons in my family. Old granny gets attention, affection, money, and all the dick she wants on demand.

    The great lie of feminism is that the way to do this is to become a whore. In reality, the opposite is true. A woman who has been a faithful wife, who has been a wise councillor and submissive helpmeet to her husband, who has raised up his kids to be honorable men and women, that chick has her man on the leash. He knows he has something to be proud of, and he will jump through rings of fire to make her happy. For the rest of you ho’s, you get nothing. No quality man would marry a divorcée nor should he.

    Keep telling yourselves that the way to happiness is by divorcing these good men. My bros will use you and throw you away to enjoy your cats before the ink is dry. You ho’s can pay your own way and wander off into the obscurity you so richly deserve. Good riddance.

    Boxer

  23. greyghost says:

    I don’t see myself or anybody I now banging a 93 year old.

  24. Allison says:

    I don’t really see women divorcing for frivolous reasons, either. I see the weird, divorce-pushing culture in the annals of the internet, like this trash article that Dalrock linked, but it dosn’t resemble my reality. I do know some divorcees, divorce initiated pretty equally by gender, most seemingly result of a failure in the screening process. But, it looks like you and I live in different worlds.

  25. doclove says:

    Any woman at least up until the age of 45 give or take 5 years can have sex and cuddling etc. if she wants it. I do not include marriage and possibly long term relationships on this. Quite often a woman over 50 years of age can have it too. If she isn’t getting these things, then it is probably her fault. Women often lie about how much sex they get and even quite often about how many offers of sex they get. They get offers from men who are too good for them, but turn them down saying these men are inferior which is hypergamy in action.
    Here are the things women especially divorced or baby momma need to do. Women need to get into better shape, fitness and weight as well as look as physically pretty as can be. Then they need to be pleasant in personality, give sex early and often and have a decent character where men know that they will not be accused of date rape. Women need to have realistic expectations on what kind of men that they can get. Women need to hand over the kids to the divorced father or baby daddy and pay child support to them. We all know this is unlikely to happen.

  26. Allison says:

    Well, Greyghost, if you are representative of the guys holding out, I don’t see the downside.

  27. greyghost says:

    Allison.
    Thank you honey that is the kindest comment you have made on Dalrock’s blog.

  28. BradA says:

    My mother did not have companionship. She had one guy who hung around for a few years in the 50-65 range, but not the close companionship she craved deep down. She would have done much better to have stayed with my dad, but no one reinforced that idea in the early 1970s.

    The quality of men she could get was well below her desire and even my own standards from what little interaction I had with the one guy. Women may be able to get attention whenever they want, even older in age, but it is not quite the flood some see.

  29. Boxer says:

    Any woman at least up until the age of 45 give or take 5 years can have sex and cuddling etc. if she wants it. I do not include marriage and possibly long term relationships on this. Quite often a woman over 50 years of age can have it too.

    Technically you’re right, of course. Anyone can get sex, pretty much on demand, in this society. It’s really a question of standards. No matter how desperate you are, you’re not going to drive into the depths of skid row for a 20 dollar quickie with a diseased crack-ho (who may well be a tranny to boot). Why would you? It’s more dignified just to hold out for something better.

    The women who “can’t get sex” are women who, reasonably enough, don’t want to blow an unemployed wino down at the bus depot. They’re looking for quality men — the same men they rejected by the dozen at age 22 — and can’t find them, as the quality 50-year old dudes were all snapped up by the smarter women who stayed married, or are jetting off to Cozumel with hot 30-year olds now.

    Boxer

  30. Allison says:

    What a weird affinity I’m feeling, GG. A true meeting of the minds, as it were. And actually, Boxer, although my grandparents stayed married till death did them part, I wouldn’t describe what they had with your terms. They were products of another time, and it didn’t look to me like it looks to you.

  31. feeriker says:

    *Elsewhere in the article they explain that over the last 17 years Susan has been propositioned “a couple of” times for no strings sex but turned them down due to her high moral standards.

    This entire article can best be summed up as “three women who have decided to slowly starve themselves to death because they can’t have steak, lobster, and cavier for three meals a day, every day.”

  32. greyghost says:

    When Allison gets in her 50’s BradA I’ll be the one coming over with the 40 of Schlitz malt liquor and the pornos to play stinky finger. Not like the nice high status gentleman screwing that 93 year old and making her point that that there will always be a somebody of higher value than Greyghost ready hump that ass.

  33. Allison says:

    GG, if I couldn’t do better than you, I’d embrace celibacy. All kidding aside, from your comments, you’re an abuser. Believe it or not, I’m happily married. I like the job Dalrock does in pointing out general bad behavior in women, it dosn’t hurt me to check myself. I generally like the religious discussions, and occasionally there are real pearls of wisdom here. But I can do without the stupid stuff, and will point it out, as it craps up the logical discussion of negative mind sets to look out for. Most women aren’t going to dry up and blow away if they get a divorce, that kind of crap takes for your credibility, Dalrock.

  34. Allison says:

    Takes FROM it, that is.

  35. The AARP stats are interesting when you contrast them next to the Pew research data here:
    http://time.com/3584827/pew-marriage-divorce-remarriage/

    http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/11/14/four-in-ten-couples-are-saying-i-do-again/

    Is it that women don’t want to remarry or is it that they have a greatly reduced capacity to attract a man TO remarry with? My guess is that when polled, women tend to make their necessity a virtue and claim sour grapes.
    http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/11/14/four-in-ten-couples-are-saying-i-do-again/st_2014-11-14_remarriage-02/

  36. Boxer says:

    GG, if I couldn’t do better than you, I’d embrace celibacy. All kidding aside, from your comments, you’re an abuser.

    Grey Ghost is a straight talker. He doesn’t sugar coat his answers or worry about anyone’s delicate sensibilities. This is a quality men generally find refreshing, and you’re on a (largely) men’s blog. If you don’t like the tone here, you can go back to Insanity Bytes or some other hugbox.

    Regards,

    Boxer

  37. greyghost says:

    Most women aren’t going to dry up and blow away if they get a divorce, that kind of crap takes for your credibility, Dalrock.

    You are right they are not going to just dry up and blow away. They do live as live human beings. Dalrock has a tough loving kindness about him when he truth fully speaks on these subjects. He seems to more speak to the women lurking to spare them the pain of following the herd than anything else.
    Me personally I think todays women take his thoughtful kindness as a safety net to continue on with the rebellion knowing even a misogynist like Dalrock can be counted on to in the end save me. That is where my abusiveness come from. I have a wife and 3 kids. Female pleasing kindness has no place when raising children in todays world.
    Just to be nice I think you are better off thinking of ways to please your husband and speaking about long term subjects with him than reassuring yourself just in case you will not be alone.

  38. Allison says:

    That’s a more measured response than I was expecting from you, GG. I get that all-gender spaces lead to trash talk that perhaps isn’t actually representative of the commenter’s character irl as well. Point taken from your last line. I was irritated by the low quality of the linked article, but yeah, I can’t see the future, but can try my best to not be the problem.

  39. theasdgamer says:

    Frivorce typically happens in the lower and lower-middle classes. Rarely in UMC or UC.

  40. I’m sorry – are we supposed to feel bad for these harpies?

  41. theasdgamer says:

    Any woman at least up until the age of 45 give or take 5 years can have sex and cuddling etc. if she wants it.

    With betas, any woman can. With alphas, “it’s the high SMV, stupid.” It’s never the woman’s fault. Always a man’s. FI doctrine 13.

  42. theasdgamer says:

    Cupcake, your snark makes me glad I married Mrs. Gamer and not you. You’d get nexted very quickly.

  43. theasdgamer says:

    But I can do without the stupid stuff, and will point it out

    Aaaaand this is where we say, “Houston, we have a problem.”

  44. Hah! Boxer is gaming Allison and she doesn’t even know it. Flick your hair much sweets? The Alpha male engages the prey by insulting her. Then at the first hint of interest he sexualizes the conversation. Her response? An immediate shit test. But now the Alpha demands complete submission. LMFAO.

    @Allison: Does your husband know you are flirting with playah’s online and getting the tingles?

    @Dalrock: Thank you for these tables and for your posts. Women over 50 who are grannies are practically a weird fetish. I think your statistics are right despite some anectodal evidence. They are looking at 40 something women when they still have a spark in them eggs. After that goes away, a woman’s attraction drops off considerably. 50-something women who are divorced or widowed are not as likely to get remarried as a 50-something man. This is because the 50-something man is MUCH more likely to land a 30-something woman amd live out his golden years butt deep in tang.

    The point is that women used to understand that committing basically during the 2nd 3rd of life insured that the final third of your life was the life of a grandmother married to a tough old boar of a husband. The alternative was the life of a spinster cat lady. Same as now. The only difference is the decisions that women are making.

  45. Just Saying says:

    women who ended marriages or relationships between the ages of 36 and 41

    Are the easiest women to get in the sack because they want to feel attractive, so as a result a smile gets their juices running – of course, it doesn’t matter if they are in a relationship they are bored with, or ended it – the fact remains they are C-string – the ones that a guy will take when nothing better is available that night.

    You have to remember that women have “very” selective memories so they may say that they didn’t have sex, but they probably have and more than once, they just don’t want to be thought of as sluts. All women do it – some want the pity f**k. These women do serve a purpose – for older guys that have been married for a long time, and newly divorced, tend to find these women a staple, before moving on to the younger ones. It takes a while for older guys to get back on their feet – a friend that got divorced a while ago started on these, and is now banging the young ones again. Older women are useful for “training” but that’s all it is – and a man doesn’t forget that. A 36 year old woman may still be a prize to a 70 yo man, since she’s still breed-able – if he wants to have another family, not as much fun as a 20-something, but hey, I tend to figure half your age is always a good place to start when it comes to women, if you’re a man over 36…

  46. Spike says:

    The article would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic. These women did the divorce and now are unhappy with their cats. They express genuine surprise at their predicaments.
    Did they all think that, once they ditch the solid, dependable and boring Beta Husband, that they would get right back to the SMV they were on when they got taken off the market?

    It reminds me so much of the desperate-to-marry career woman. She is in her thirties and has baby-rabies. She will always say, “I better find someone quick, or it will be too late”.
    What is astonishing is that their stories are identical, just the names and the characters change. They have had a career, been in relationships, found them ended and wonder why. They can’t ever bring themselves to work out that they have been had by feminism and seduced by their own selfish folly – exactly like these used-up boiler hens.

  47. greyghost says:

    Just Saying
    Your comment will have a much more effect on female behavior than all the charts and knowledge combined. That is basically the way to teach all young men to view women. The same rule applies if you adjust for Christ. Replace banging and fucking with commitment and marriage

  48. theasdgamer says:

    And, Allison, cupcake, my marriage is a veritable roller coaster and I am philosophically resigned to ride it out. Mrs. Gamer was urinating and ululating (pissing and moaning) from 2 a.m. on, blaring radios all over the house because she was unhaaappy that I came home at 1:30 a.m. She was fearful that I was banging some broad and she carried on about it, even though she had no evidence to support her fear. It was all just a bunch of bad feelz in Mrs. Gamer’s head. Duty sex was required of me to help restore things. Not much fun, but necessary. And I worked for several days on Mrs. Gamer’s feelz, giving comfort where I could to ease her fears. Today, in her own way of apologizing for her bad behavior, Mrs. Gamer came to my office in the basement wearing nothing but a bathrobe and makeup. She can be really sweet when she tries and frequently cooks my favorite meals. Putting up with the crazy mood swings takes some philosophical understanding that it’s just a brief squall in the marriage and will soon blow over. Understand that all husbands have to put up with some crazy from their wives. And wives tend to underestimate how much patience is required of husbands. Women justify their crazy by assuming that if they have bad feelz, it must be a man’s fault, so the woman’s abusive behavior is therefore justified in her mind. Not necessarily.

    I’ll preempt the obvious question. When some broad or mangina brings up me coming home at 1:30 a.m., I ask, “Who the fuck are you to tell me how late I should stay out?” Not that you have any right to know–just for curiosity, I was getting material for my book up to 1 a.m.

  49. Wondering why these women are alone?

    SHIRLEY:

    >>I’ve realised how important I am, how important my life is, and, rather than risk being hurt, I concentrate on me and that’s helped me become very successful in my professional life.’

    >>>if he doesn’t text or call you the next day you don’t feel very good at all. You feel used, **as I often have.**

    >>>the stress of trying for a baby, discovering that Shirley was infertile (caused her 2nd divorce- it just happened. Honest! Cuz, like fibroids and stress and what do you know, she found herself divorced).

    >>>Shirley felt emotionally unsupported and, realizing that she barely knew her husband, divorced him within a year of their wedding. Soon afterwards, Shirley collapsed on a street in LA and, after being rushed to hospital, discovered she needed emergency surgery to remove a fibroid. (I wish there were a place guys could go to learn how to deal with feminine crazy bullshit like this).

    >>>part of my work is teaching young girls that sex should be a reward for men who put them on a pedestal and treat them well,’ says Shirley.

    Oh please will somebody put Shirley on a pedestal and fuck her.

    SUZIE:

    —Married at 51 and divorced after 5 years. Now at 61 sassy Suzie can’t get laid. Suzie runs a website for platonic meetings that has 9,000 members- She wanted to create a place where people could meet others for whom sex was not an essential ingredient in a relationship.

    Suzie says:

    “I’m not interested in casual sex, which so many men seem to want.”

    Do they really Suzie? Well Shucks and Gollleee! Who knew? Could your compulsive, pathological lack of interest in sex have anything to with men not wanting to date you?

  50. DeNihilist says:

    “‘My desire to feel a man’s arms around me …”

    Well there’s always your nephew, or not…

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/13/woman-sues-11-year-old-nephew-hug-broke-wrist

  51. feeriker says:

    >>>part of my work is teaching young girls that sex should be a reward for men who put them on a pedestal and treat them well,’ says Shirley.

    Wonderful. Working to destroy new generations of women by spreading the misery and perpetuating rampant selfish female narcissism.

    Shirley needs to be quarantined.

  52. infowarrior1 says:

    @Boxer

    ”A woman who has been a faithful wife, who has been a wise councillor and submissive helpmeet to her husband, who has raised up his kids to be honorable men and women, that chick has her man on the leash”

    Like a good doggie right?:
    http://i0.wp.com/www.avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/09/neck-leash-halter-dog-pussy-whipped-Stockfresh.jpg?resize=240%2C360

  53. Tom C says:

    I wonder, would such a woman be more likely to treat you well? If a woman (of any age) has been sad and lonely for years and is lucky enough to finally get a boyfriend, it seems logical that she would think, “maybe I should be grateful and treat my man kindly so that we can have a happy relationship together.”

    But then again she might just revert to old habits. If she was alone because she was rejecting men that she saw as not being “in her league” then the one she finally lands is possibly just good enough to make the cut. And then shortly thereafter, not quite good enough anymore.

  54. embracingreality says:

    The men who earlier in life were married to these monsters ultimately received winning lottery tickets in the form of divorce papers. These females aren’t fish that got away, they’re snapping turtles that cut the line.

  55. Minesweeper says:

    Allison, Maybe you live on some sex crazed island where the men are drugged and no females exist under 40. But on my island, what Im seeing is not what you are.

    I’ve also had gorgeous 21yo girls complain that no one was interested in them, while hitting on someone twice their age (me). My last LTR is still single and so are almost all of her friends. When we were at public parties, it would be us and 5 other single divorced or never married women at the same table.

    tbh I think most women can find a man if they drop their standards to suit. most wont.

  56. Minesweeper says:

    @adsgamer, dont forget if you are an aspy, you wont read your wifes body language, I’ve known many aspies who have absolutely exasperated wives, and I can relate.

    I’ve had aspy friends and family, and no matter what you communicate to them via body language and tonal cues, they just don’t get it. Drives you nuts and you feel that they just couldnt give a damm about you.

    so take is easy on her, married to an aspy is not fun at all and tends to drive most women crazy.

  57. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    The media fuels women’s false expectations of the “exciting life” of older women. Skimming the tabloids, I see plenty of 40-something female celebrities dating hot, 20-something guys. Usually the men are much poorer and less famous than the older women. Men who are gym trainers, yoga instructors, nutritionists, unknown actors or musicians, etc. Jennifer Lopez (40s) is in a well-publicized relationship with one of her backup singers (20s).

    Of course, these female stars are hotter in their 40s than most American women in their 20s. Plus, they can offer money, fame, travel, and access to career opportunities. So it doesn’t matter if these hot, 40-something celebrity women are also single mothers, many times over.

    Unfortunately, typical, middle-aged, BBW American women see these celebrities, and think it can be their reality. Sometimes I troll Cragslist. I see SO MANY personal ads from middle-aged women (many who are tattooed, overweight, and single mothers), seeking hot, younger men.

    A woman of 43 might seek men in the 28-45 age range. A woman of 45 might want a man in the 30-45 age range. Always seeking men much younger, but never older. Plus they have long wish lists. These aging BBWs expect hot, younger men to pay for everything. To “treat me like the queen that I am.”

    Even Jennifer Lopez, I assume, pays the expenses for her much younger, but poorer, boy toy.

  58. benfromtexas says:

    Yep. You know J-Lo is a sugar momma to her younger dudes. A lot of them are in her field. What man with a tiny piece of an Alpha mindset wants a 45 yr old when you can have a 25 yr old or younger!

  59. Exfernal says:

    ^ “A woman’s got to know her limitations” to paraphrase Eastwood.🙂

  60. crowhill says:

    Dalrock, are you saying that Focus on the Family encourages divorce when a woman feels unloved?

  61. Anchorman says:

    Women over 40 often don’t realize how often bitter words or attitudes are shown. They don’t think people pick up on it because folks are too polite (or, more likely, don’t care enough to correct) to point out the words or the looks given.

    I have a big group of friends. We go out a lot. My current woman is a sweet, appreciative lady (unsurprising, born in South America and came to the states in her 20s). We can be in the middle of a great night and every now and then, one of the women lets the mask slip and you get a sense of the bitter tongue. It’s like a record scratching. Folks laugh it off and move on, but it’s jarring.

    These women were spared the harshness of the Wall because they were in committed relationships when they passed that barrier. They jumped from those arms and landed in reality.

    They may seem pitiful and in need of warmth (and they are/do), but dollars to donuts, they give off a bitter vibe that is unmistakable.

  62. Yoda says:

    So how “all men’s fault” it would be?

  63. theasdgamer says:

    @ minesweeper

    adsgamer, dont forget if you are an aspy, you wont read your wifes body language

    I’m on the spectrum, but I don’t have a problem reading body language or facial expressions. I had to learn those when I was a teen doing pickup.

  64. Striver says:

    @minesweeper

    I had the aspie’s bit thrown at me too. She also called me kind, and kindness indicates empathy for others and perception of their needs… buying into the aspie’s script is just white knighting for women. Not cool.

    Older women can get men. But they have to want to get men. I have seen women of various ages who are determined to get a man. They can work the system just like a player can. The women who aren’t with men are ones who just sit around passively, complaining about their lives. One of the women in this article refused to use the Internet. Older women can get men, but they need girl game.

  65. sonofdeathswriter says:

    “When friends complain about their husbands pestering them for sex when they’re not in the mood I can’t help but think: ‘You don’t know how lucky you are to have someone who loves you and wants to show it.’”

    I almost flipped out my chair on this one. Anyhow am I suppose to care? This is the price/risk one takes when getting a divorce. Relationships aren’t easy to come by since men, in particular, have almost everything to lose and little to gain. Some of us can’t justify getting married. Some of us have been hurt beyond repair. Some of us don’t care and believe all women are alike. These results don’t shock me.

    When they had a man in love with them they treated him like dirt. Now they are mad because they don’t have anyone to love. It’s the choice they made. To women it’s our fault but who said they wanted to divorce. Them. Sorry sister you choice the life, live with it because if a man did the same thing. They’ll be up his ass and telling him to deal with it as well.

  66. Anonymous Reader says:

    Women’s preference for serial polyandry clearly “works” for women in their 20’s[1] and gradually breaks down over time. This article is essentially saying that women should always have the option to jump to another man, at no cost to themselves. In essence, this is a plea for a slower, more stately, carousel. But it’s still a carousel, and only men should pay. Same Stuff Different Decade, in other words. Women who would ride the slower carousel in their 40’s really need to up their game, or lower their standards. And we see this in cases where frivorcee’s wind up with “a man” like Stella or the EPL woman – someone they would never have given any time to earlier in their life. The alternative is the sad sacks in this article, who maintain their “standards” (how a 3-time divorcee can be said to have “standards” is a mystery, albit a risible one) and surprise! They gots no man, ever.

    [1] It only “works” because young women are generally quite pretty and men are willing to overlook other flaws in them. But as my mother told me a looooong time ago, “Pretty Is As Pretty Does” as well as “Beauty is only skin deep”. The mental habit of regarding men as replacable, disposable and interchangeable, i.e. there’s always another branch to grab / seat on the carousel is clearly only “true” for a very limited number of years. There is no such thing as a cost free harem for a man, nor is there such a thing as cost-free serial polyandry for women. The very idea of cost-free serialy polyandry is an illusion based on the early-20’s carousel, it’s not actually cost free then, either, but the costs are quite well hidden from carousel riders…at that time.

  67. greyghost says:

    Remember all of the women in the article HAD men willing to commit to them as husbands and each one divorced the man. And all were young and attractive at one time. They are single and lonely by their choice. I personally put the blame on that great books for men guy with that one cock rule song of his.

  68. Durandel el Almiras says:

    I read the whole article. Did I miss something? Because I could not find any mention of how it was men who were at fault. The writer or editor added that into the title line but all these women did was bemoan how their choices led them to where they are.

    The “men’s fault” card has been overplayed. At what point will most see this line of thinking as s fraud that it is?

  69. DeNihilist says:

    AR – I have the notion that the carousal is getting older and long on the tooth. In a society raised on “free” sex, as the wave ages, so to, do the participants. And their quirks will usually follow along.

    Gaining wisdom from living life is so looked down upon now. We just had a federal election up here. The young ones came out en-mass to vote, a good thing. I tried at the beginning to offer them wisdom, but saw that there was no appreciation in my advice, so decided to stay silent. Most wanted a minority government, but were surprised when they got a majority, WHOOPS! I could see this coming from a mile away, but my life experience – wisdom- meant nothing to these young-uns.

    So what I see is these CR’s just bringing that cum-stained carousel along with them, cuz that is all they know, and actually learning from life is so out of vogue now.

  70. Anchorman says:

    I read the whole article. Did I miss something? Because I could not find any mention of how it was men who were at fault.

    From the article:

    They seem left with an impossible choice: meaningless, soul-sapping casual encounters or decades of celibacy. Most opt for the latter…

    ==================

    Most of the ‘nice men’ Susan has met over the past 17 years were already committed and, although she has been propositioned by a couple of them, she wants more than just sex and is too moral to contemplate an affair with a married man…

    ==================

    However, older women scarred by unhappy relationships in their past may be reluctant to risk a brief encounter with a man for fear of the pain it may cause.

    ==================

    ‘I gave up smoking and alcohol and vowed I’d never have sex – the source of so many of the problems in my life – with anyone other than a man happy to commit, love and support me. As men like that are hard to find, it was difficult contemplating the rest of my life without a boyfriend.”

    ==================

    ‘We’ve come a long way since the days when a woman’s only place was in the home, but we have to accept our biology dictates that when we sleep with a man we want him to commit and nurture us.

    ‘Given my age and based on past experiences, it’s doubtful I’ll meet someone like that now.

    ‘So as I value myself far too much to make do with casual sex, I have to accept I may never be intimate with a man again.’

    You see, men aren’t “nice” anymore and only want sex. All they do is hurt the women. These women only want loving arms and commitment, but these bad men only want sex and to give them pain.

    There’s more in the article, but the point’s made.

    If men weren’t so awful, they’d stop hurting these women and give them the love the world promised them (and they divorced, several times).

  71. Anchorman says:

    Not mentioned: the many “nice guys” who go decades without sex in their 20s and 30s because they’re not “hot enough,” but offer loving arms, commitment, etc.

  72. new anon says:

    Too many absolutes and too many anecdotal examples. There are ranges of attractiveness at various age ranges.

    Consider 25 year old women. Rating wise, I would break the percentages down as:

    7+ : 30%
    5-6: 50%
    3-4: 15%
    1-2: 5%

    80% of 25 year old women (the 5 & up group) can walk into any random bar; experience guys they consider desirable hitting on them; and go home with one of those desirable guys;

    Now, do that same break down for 55 year old women:

    7+: 5%
    5-6: 15%
    3-4: 50%
    1-2: 30%

    Only 20% of 55 year old women (the 5 & up group) can walk into any random bar; experience guys they consider desirable hitting on them; and go home with one of those desirable guys.

    That’s a cold, cruel calculation, but I think it fits reality. Men see their long time wives through wife goggles; they see other women harsh-reality glasses.

    The problem for most of the women in the later age group isn’t that they can’t find men; it’s that they can’t find DESIRABLE men. And, that’s because the men in this age group don’t find the majority of these women desirable. But, you’ll never get women (who believe that all men will jump anything) to accept that fact.

  73. scientivore says:

    I wonder, would such a woman be more likely to treat you well? . . . But then again she might just revert to old habits.

    It depends on her strength of character. I have known good women, emotionally stable and clear-headed, who can see when they did something wrong and resolve to not do it again. I have also known women who are little better than talking animals, entirely driven by instinct, who are only sorry until you don’t go — and then immediately repeat the behavior they just apologized for, because they feel like it must not really be that bad if you can forgive it.

    From their life paths, I would say that the specific women in the article are of the latter type, chaotic and unreasoning. However, there could be other women who end up in a similar situation, but not of their own making; those might make a good second wife for an older man who’s done raising kids.

  74. PuffyJacket says:

    @new anon

    Great analysis. Perhaps those numbers are a bit too generous for the 55 year-olds, but your point is well made. If 80% of >55 year old women are less than a 5, then it’s easy to see how destructive a sex substitute such as VR would be to this group of women. Brutally destructive, in fact.

    @Anonymous Reader

    There has always been a cost to “rotating polyandry”, but in our present day feminist utopia women have voted in several layers of safety nets to make this as cost-free as possible. Yet despite this the costs remain massive, and the consequences not well considered by most women. The flip-side of rotating polyandry is that for every woman on the carousel in her youth, there is a woman aged 40-50 tossed away into abject poverty and loneliness.

    Judging by Allison’s reaction, this is clearly a sore spot for most women. Unfortunately beyond a certain age women are entirely dependent on the chivalry and goodwill of older men, and such women are increasing relying on tactics like shaming language to get men to tow the line out of sheer desperation. Apparently they have not yet figured out that “biting the hand that feeds” is not a workable long-term strategy here.

  75. thedeti says:

    Dalrock did a good job running the numbers on why these women and many more like them can’t seem to find men. Anon Reader explained it pretty well that these women’s (and many more like them) real complaint is that they can no longer realize their preferred sexual strategy (serial monogamy, serial polyandry) to full advantage.

    But you have to pull out the subtext to determine why they say it’s all men’s fault.

    Translated, it’s men’s fault because:

    1. Attractive men do not want marriage or committed relationships with these women. Attractive men are shallow, mean spirited, selfish and uncompassionate because they will not have “age-appropriate” relationships with these women. Attractive men instead have casual sex and relationships with younger, more attractive women.

    2. To the extent attractive men do want these women, it’s only to break a dry spell or for a quick pump and dump.

    3. The only men available to these women are unattractive, low value men.

    4. Even these unattractive low value men are interested in these women only for pump and dumps.

    But they do not want to say any of this because these statements, although they’re the truth, shine a harsh light on what is really going on here. Even the piece’s author won’t come out and say it. And what’s really going on here is that these women squandered, misused and consumed their attractiveness, they wasted their lives, and are now lonely and miserable because of it. Accepting any responsibility for that, accepting that they themselves might have caused this, is far too painful a prospect. So, they are now casting about for someone else to blame.

    Hence the headline: “It’s all men’s fault.”

  76. PuffyJacket says:

    Even these unattractive low value men are interested in these women only for pump and dumps.

    Yeah, but I think Allison has a great point. Only quality men pursue 93 year-olds.

  77. Anonymous Reader says:

    new anon
    Men see their long time wives through wife goggles; they see other women harsh-reality glasses.

    +1

    We can quibble all day about new anon’s percentages for women in their 20’s vs. women in their 50’s (personally I think he’s overly generous with the latter) but the shape the curve, so to speak, is undeniable.

    You women who lurk: “wife goggles” are what enables a man in his 50’s to look at his wife and “see” a kind of overlay or shadow of the way she was when she was younger. We men aren’t sure if all men have “wife goggles” but they seem to be common among those couples together for a long time. “Wife goggles” are to your benefit.

    The younger a woman was when she pair bonded with her man, the better the “wife goggles” work. A woman who pair bonded when she was 25 is giving her man a better pair of “wife goggles” than a woman who did so at 35.

    Women, the older you get, the harder you will have to work to secure a new man’s committment. That’s the cold truth. And feminism has not just poisoned the well for many men, it’s filled the well with salt, caved in the sides and built a tower of dung on top of it.

  78. Anonymous Reader says:

    Yeah, but I think Allison has a great point. Only quality men pursue 93 year-olds.

    Right, but he has to be at least 97 years old, and a few inches taller, too. Because hypergamy…

  79. DeNihilist says:

    Anchorman – “If men weren’t so awful, they’d stop hurting these women and give them the love the world promised them (and they divorced, several times).”

    AND THEY DIVOCED SEVERAL TIMES!!!!!

    This is the black hole in the room that these women do not want you to notice. Unfortunately as they get sucked beyond the event horizon, this fact will be with them for eternity. Maybe then they will admit their downfall……

  80. Anonymous Reader says:

    One more fact about “wife goggles”, from listening to my frivorced friend it appears that enough wifely contempt, contentiousness, bad temper, etc. for a long enough period of time, breaks them. A man sees the woman as she is, i.e. she looks like any other woman of her age group, grooming, body mass index, etc. Wife now looks just like the loudmouth in the grocery store line…

    Once wife goggles are broken, it appears to be the rule that they can’t be fixed.

    FYI, women who lurk.

  81. greyghost says:

    They were all married to men that wanted them enough to marry.

  82. Anchorman says:

    Viewing my ex without Wife Goggles is mind-blowing.

    I fought the divorce and refused to sign until the two year period passed (contested divorce), even though I knew there was no chance of reconciliation.

    In the harsh light after I’ve dated a couple dozen women (and found one born in South America worth dating long term), it’s brutal. I’d post pics of my ex and my current, but I’m certain folks would think I selected exaggerated pics for both.

    We’ve been divorced for years and she’s mid 40s and hasn’t had anyone in her life since the early period of pump and dumps when we first split. I wonder if the loneliness also ages folks. I know lack of sex does.

  83. Anchorman says:

    Once wife goggles are broken, it appears to be the rule that they can’t be fixed.

    Absolutely agree.

  84. That greyghost is a revealing statement that will go unexplored by the feminist author.

    They secured marriage in their younger years while their SMV was high and thought to renegotiate when their MMV had collapsed. Oops.Whose fault was that. Men’s clearly. We clearly need to start all being high grade alpha’s with granny fetishes to make the world a better place for women.

    If women all become millionaires and 10’s (by the feminine standard, which means BMI’s of 35-50 and neckbeards) then men need to be multi-millionaires and 12’s (in this case god-like in their ability to scintillate the female eye), else men have failed. Like it has been said before, feminism is a shit test. The only way to win the game is not to play.

  85. Wait a minute, wait. a. minute. I thought women had to beat off with a stick all the male callers they were getting once their husband’s kicked off or they divorced at 68?

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/02/27/grannies-gone-wild/

    I don’t think you’re doing your due diligence here Dal.

  86. These women should be happy and joyful. No more stupid men to get in the way, they are free to pursue female empowerment and do anything they want to do.

    They should stop complaining and start living the feminist dream.

  87. Farm Boy says:

    They should stop complaining and start living the feminist dream.

    Perhaps remind them of what this entails you should.

  88. Jeremy says:

    I don’t understand, weren’t all the decisions these women made over their lives empowering? Didn’t they feel empowered when they were young and sexually mature? Didn’t they feel empowered when they could date multiple guys at once? Didn’t they feel empowered when they got tired of hot guys and found a “nice guy” to marry? Didn’t they feel empowered when they got tired of Mr Nice Guy and divorced his ass? Didn’t they feel empowered in their second life of being single?

    I don’t understand, with all of that empowerment, all those unquestionably good decisions over their lives… wouldn’t their lives turn out awesome? There must be a glitch in the matrix.

  89. Boxer says:

    Dear Infowarrior:

    Like a good doggie right?

    That is certainly true, cynical as it is. Even so, women need to know this truth and accept it.

    Visit little towns in post-communist Eastern Europe or Latin America and you will know who the *actual* empowered women are. Older women who have young men helping them home with their grocery bags, and whenever they step outside they have people opening the door for them.

    Insult one of these women and you’ll get your ass kicked (and in some cases, perhaps killed). These are the old school faithful wives who everyone in town has known to be a good woman. By the time she is 60 she has a small army of sons, grandsons and sons-in-law who can take care of her — financially or otherwise.

    Not only is the feminist “empowerment” narrative wrong, but it’s the exact opposite of the actual tactics that a young woman needs to get this sort of empowerment. Feminist sluts have a tiny bit of power when they’re young and hot. By the time they are 30, they have none.

    Boxer

  90. Scott says:

    Visit little towns in post-communist Eastern Europe or Latin America and you will know who the *actual* empowered women are. Older women who have young men helping them home with their grocery bags, and whenever they step outside they have people opening the door for them.

    Insult one of these women and you’ll get your ass kicked (and in some cases, perhaps killed). These are the old school faithful wives who everyone in town has known to be a good woman. By the time she is 60 she has a small army of sons, grandsons and sons-in-law who can take care of her — financially or otherwise.

    Not only is the feminist “empowerment” narrative wrong, but it’s the exact opposite of the actual tactics that a young woman needs to get this sort of empowerment. Feminist sluts have a tiny bit of power when they’re young and hot. By the time they are 30, they have none.

    Boxer–this right here contains the makings of a new stand-alone post.

    I remember in our right down the middle of the middle class neighborhood growing up, me and my band of marauding pals used to ride our bikes around devouring snacks at each others houses–giving us enough energy to make it the next adventure.

    Some of those houses had stay-at-home moms who would welcome us in, with sweet smiles and the whole experience felt so inviting–like you wanted to stay forever.

    Others had grumpy moms, or ones that were off working some job and nothing but microwaveable snacks that we had to make ourselves.

    When I think back on them now–on the occasions that I run into moms from the first group (the most recent case of this was my dads funeral) I have a very strong protective sense around them.

    Not so much the absentee/career mom batch.

  91. jbro1922 says:

    Boxer, I thought feminists didn’t like men opening doors for them and being chivalrous? Because patriarchy. And it’s demeaning or whatever the term is. Feminism is so confusing.

  92. anonymous_ng says:

    Regarding wife goggles, given that our parting wasn’t particularly acrimonious, I find myself looking at my ex with the wife-goggles and then in the next breath seeing her as she is and realizing that if I ran into her out in the world, I’d not give her a second look.

  93. PuffyJacket says:

    @Boxer

    Taking that one step one further, why should the well-respected mother of several loving kids be forced to subsidize the aging feminist slut whose only legacy to this world is a few STDs and a houseful of cats?

    Of the two, which one has been a net contributor to society and which was has been a net parasite?

  94. J1J2 says:

    Perhaps I missed something, but the data “mined” on OK Cupid did not seem to be broken down by age, and if so does not prove anything about older women being unattractive (for LTRs) to older men, at least not to the dramatic extent that has been claimed, since the man on OK Cupid are predominately young. Running the numbers (from Dalrock’s chart), it seems that a woman who gets divorced in her mid 30s has nearly a 50% chance of being married by her mid 40s, which again is hardly the hopeless situation that has sometimes been presented. The very percentages given are only *per year*.
    Anyway, can we just stop the Blame Game and try to figure out to help women in pain, or at least prevent them from getting that way? The numbers on women’s happiness are going down all over the western world. In a sense these are “our” women (very “paternalistic”, I know. I’m a father. Deal with it.) Clearly the situation at the historical moment has become that men have become much better at understanding men than women are at understanding men. As a result, women are making all kinds of “moronic” (“women = morons”) or “foolish” (D’s “foolishness”) mistakes with men, resulting (it seems clear) in lower happiness. So how do we help women develop a better understanding of men?

  95. zodak says:

    I guess they all forgot to factor in that men die at an earlier age than girls do. I am just filled with schadenfreude knowing that these selfish harpies are alone. welcome to the friendzone girls.

  96. Anchorman says:

    Anyway, can we just stop the Blame Game and try to figure out to help women in pain, or at least prevent them from getting that way?

    Sure.

    Tell them to reject the lies of feminism and to live a more traditional, chaste life.

  97. jbro1922 says:

    “Taking that one step one further, why should the well-respected mother of several loving kids be forced to subsidize the aging feminist slut whose only legacy to this world is a few STDs and a houseful of cats?”

    This is my answer to why I don’t support IVF being covered by health insurance plans. Why should I have to pay for your poor decisions? Why didn’t you have kids when you were younger?

  98. PuffyJacket says:

    Anyway, can we just stop the Blame Game and try to figure out to help women in pain, or at least prevent them from getting that way?

    That would be akin to complaining about your house being flooded with water, but being unwilling to identify the source of the leak.

    How serious would you take a plumber for whom this wasn’t his primary focus?

  99. Cane Caldo says:

    @greyghost

    Dalrock has a tough loving kindness about him when he truth fully speaks on these subjects. He seems to more speak to the women lurking to spare them the pain of following the herd than anything else.

    Yessir, and that is something that I’ve been thinking for awhile.

    Last week, because of my exact same thoughts, I decided that it has been wrong of me to say–as I’ve said many times–that women don’t belong here at Dalrock’s blog. Dalrock has been very gracious towards me in this regard; among others. It’s a kind of bait-n-switch for Dalrock to speak to them, and then, when they reply, for me to tell them to shut up. (Again, I mean specifically here at Dalrock’s blog.) I was rude to both parties.

    That should not be misconstrued as a general apology to various women for my specific commentary on their specific manipulations and idiocies. Those still stand.

  100. Dalrock says:

    @J1J2

    Perhaps I missed something, but the data “mined” on OK Cupid did not seem to be broken down by age

    It is. Make sure you are allowing scripts and then move the sliders. The whole analysis is a sales pitch to men on OK Cupid to stop overlooking older women, complete with promises of more sex, oral, etc.

  101. Micha Elyi says:

    The Daily Femail and its latest scribbler are whining that men should stop being gatekeepers of commitment then lie back and enjoy what happens. Many other females are chiming in to agree. Yet the sex-role reversal* of what these females wish for is something those same females are quick to viciously condemn.

    Hmph, so much for the modern female’s desire for equality.

    * females are the gatekeepers of sex

  102. Mulier says:

    @ Cane Caldo.

    Good for you for that realization. Dalrock’s blog does a lot of good in helping women, and through them their children and husbands. It is not reasonable to expect women to read a blog where they cannot comment, since the audience and the commenters are usually going to overlap.

    After all, a blog is not a church, nor is it written by someone who is a priest, pastor, husband, father, or other male in a position of authority over the female reader. If my children enrolled in a class where they were forbidden to talk or ask the teacher any questions, I’d take them out of it since it would not be a good environment for learning. In fact, I’d consider that restriction on them to be a warning signal about the soundness of the instruction. Women in the Bible are even allowed to ask questions of and talk to God, if done appropriately. Sometimes they receive a loving reproof in response, and what could be more helpful to them?

    Of course a blog can choose, like yours, to be an all-male space in order to be more productive for its particular mission. Nothing wrong with that either.

  103. PuffyJacket says:

    Sure, but remember that first and foremost this is a male space, and that ultimately needs to be respected. That means keeping the clucking to a minimum, lest this place turns into a henhouse.

  104. Opus says:

    This very evening I was introduced to a very pleasant young woman (a low 7) – who has something of a reformed player boyfriend – and born in Oakland, California. On the next table I could not but overhear a mid-twenties English female (a 5) telling her female friend how she is going to be spending the next five years studying for her PhD – in English. I think that was an overwhelming victory for Team America.

  105. Gunner Q says:

    J1J2 @ 4:02 pm:
    “So how do we help women develop a better understanding of men?”

    We, meaning YOU, Mr. Father, teach our daughters they they were created by God to serve men. Raise your daughters to believe that their one and only purpose in life is to make their future husband happy. You’ll be doing them a favor.

    Or, you can send your daughters to Commie University instead, because they shouldn’t trust a husband to provide for his family, keep telling them they’re equal to men and it’s “the patriarchy” if they aren’t able to keep up, warn them against getting married until they’ve done everything else they want to do in life, remind them they can do no wrong if it’s “for the children” and then act surprised when this is how they end up.

    It’s your choice.

  106. Mulier says:

    @ PuffyJacket

    Fair enough.

    Sadly, though, because women value men’s opinions of them–which is, as Dalrock points out so many times, why men must take up the burden of chastising women even though it does not feel good–I’m not sure that Dalrock’s blog, if written by a woman as an all-female space, would have anywhere near as much impact on women. That is, women care more about criticism from a man than from a woman. We get equally upset for either, but criticism from a woman is easier for us to dismiss in the long run. (I’m not saying that Dalrock doesn’t draw fire, just that his points are more likely to resonate even amongst those who would like to destroy him.)

  107. desiderian says:

    “Sadly, though, because women value men’s opinions of them”

    This hasn’t always been the case. Traditionally older women took care of the younger, and likewise with men. It’s just that this generation of older women is particularly ill-suited to offer advice/criticism to anyone.

  108. Boxer says:

    We, meaning YOU, Mr. Father, teach our daughters they they were created by God to serve men. Raise your daughters to believe that their one and only purpose in life is to make their future husband happy. You’ll be doing them a favor.

    I don’t think the bible says “serve men”. Men are idiots, and no one should automatically submit to them all. I think the text of the bible it says serve God, and serve Jesus, and serve your father and then your husband. There’s a couple of men in there, but that’s it.

    In a healthy, patriarchal society, a man would give his virgin daughter to another man and then they’d all live close together as an extended family, on the same farm or at least in the same town, so that the young man could have an arbiter if his new wife got uppity. The girl’s father knows all her tricks and if she’s causing trouble he’d be first to kick that ass so that her husband didn’t run off and leave her to be his burden.

    Scale and social atomization that happened in the 1950s in North America probably played some part in the rise of feminism, with a bunch of disaffected wives who found themselves in control of young husbands without a suitable support network. This is an undertheorized facet of the historical dialectic that I hope Dalrock or some other brainiac will explore at some point.

    Best,

    Boxer

  109. Minesweeper says:

    Interesting talk from the writer of Dal’s Okcupid link above, dont show a feminist as it will break their little hearts.

  110. Minesweeper says:

    This one is pretty good as well although longer. Big differences between the sexes – heavens. A million womens studies departments cried out in terror.

  111. Mulier says:

    @ Desiderian.

    Yes, that’s a brilliant point, and it shows how much our culture is magnifying its own corruption generationally. When it is your own mother that gives you bad advice, what is a young woman going to do?

  112. ace says:

    Hawk&Rock says:
    October 22, 2015 at 7:21 pm
    “Not buying it. There are soooo many thirsty men out there it is almost unbelievable”

    True, there are many thirsty men out there, but not in the demographic relevant to this article (approx. 40-60 range).

  113. Anonymous Reader says:

    Dalrock, that article by Rudder from 2010 apparently was incorporated into his book Dataclysm, Who We Are (When We Think No One Is Looking). It is an interesting book, including a graph on women’s attraction that clearly shows the 80/20 rule.

    You might find it interesting reading.

  114. @Anchorman

    WRT photos… I could post photos of my wife the year she decided to pull the plug and now (5 years difference) and it would be instructive for many to see the average of 25 pounds per year she put on once she realized she was nothing but a pump and dump. From 140 to 260-270. She now suffers from depression, various health problems she never had while married and in general is a miserable woman. It’s getting bad enough that my oldest daughter is now posting stuff about narcissism on her Facebook (her mama has NPD).

  115. Minesweeper says:

    @Artisanal Toad, be careful, in a few years you could get caught in her gravitational pull. “Seesawing weight tends to indicate mental instability” – JudgyBitch

    And my own experience backs that up, as my ex blimped up very quickly. Can I ask did you notice she had NPD in the marriage ? If so what were the signs ?

  116. infowarrior1 says:

    @boxer

    The greatest enemies of those feminine women are other women. What do the men of post-communist russia and latin america do with such women? Or do they only kick the ass of men who do anything untoward to those feminine women.

  117. infowarrior1 says:

    @Boxer

    Feminism was already a force in the 19th century advocating for womens suffrage, abolition of coverture:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coverture
    which also had a role in social purity(advocating for increased frigidity it seems):
    http://gem.greenwood.com/wse/wsePrint.jsp?id=id614

    and prohibition of alcohol.

  118. BradA says:

    jbro,

    I don’t know that I would argue for IVF to be covered and my wife and I did not pursue it when that was an avenue, but I would not that she did not participate in the bad behavior you note. She was pre-wall, so that wasn’t the reason either, though it is certainly quite possible things would have been different had we met and married several years before. (We married about a year after we met.

  119. Dale says:

    @PuffyJacket:
    >The flip-side of rotating polyandry is that for every woman on the carousel in her youth, there is a woman aged 40-50 tossed away into abject poverty and loneliness.

    Perhaps PJ did not intend it, but I saw in this a hope that the women “tossed away” would serve as a warning and deterrent.
    And I agree that it might be nice to think that there would be visible signs of failure, such as the old women abandoned to lonely poverty, from which the younger women could learn.
    Alas, there are at least three problems. First, the abundant wealth of our cultures, combined with men’s willingness to give their own wealth to both women they do not know and to women who they know to be undeserving of such help. By giving to women who have not lived good lives, we reduce or eliminate the need for women to be wise in their life choices.
    The Bible says to give to:
    1) orphans
    2) widows — and this group is further restricted to those over the age of 60 and who have a good reputation (served husband, raised children, currently serving the saints)
    3) close family
    4) his wife
    For each man, most women will not be in any of these four groups. So why are we giving to them? I unfortunately myself gave to women’s shelters for years. On the surface, that seems like a good idea. Help the pitiful, abused women and her children, who are escaping from being beaten by the big bad man.
    The truth however is that the charity has no way to discern between the woman who did genuinely consistently submit to her husband, and yet encountered true abuse, and the woman who is too lazy or selfish to maintain and stay in a marriage with her husband. And I doubt many tried.
    Not only did I contribute to the breakdown of marriages through these donations of my earned wealth, but I contributed to children being taken from their fathers.

    Second, our governments institute national “safety social nets”, specifically to finance those too unlucky or too foolish to have provided for their own future. Thus, again, removing the costs of failure.

    And thirdly, how many 17 year old girls, contemplating throwing away their virginity, consider their 45 year old single aunt, and think that starting down the path of being a selfish, promiscuous woman is perhaps not the best long-term live plan? 1%? Or none?

  120. MarcusD says:

    A Question to a Priest’s Answer Column from a Catholic Woman: “What If My Best Dates Have Been with Non-Christians?”
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=984386

    Husband or Children first, or equal
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=984283

  121. Oscar says:

    @ Gunner Q says:
    October 23, 2015 at 6:42 pm

    “We, meaning YOU, Mr. Father, teach our daughters they they were created by God to serve men.”

    No. They were not “created by God to serve men”. Read Proverbs 31. The “excellent wife” described therein serves her husband, her children, the people she employs and the poor (in that order). She doesn’t “serve men”.

    “Raise your daughters to believe that their one and only purpose in life is to make their future husband happy.”

    Again, no. Read Proverbs 31. You will find exactly zero verses stating that the excellent wife “makes her husband happy”. Verse 12 does state that “she brings him good and not evil all the days of her life”.

    That is not the same thing as “making him happy”.

  122. Oscar says:

    @ Dale says:
    October 23, 2015 at 11:44 pm

    “how many 17 year old girls, contemplating throwing away their virginity, consider their 45 year old single aunt”

    How many 17-year-olds of either sex consider their 45-year-old anything? The number approaches zero. Getting them to think past 21 requires divine intervention. That’s why they have parents – particularly fathers – to think that far ahead for them. They’re supposed to, anyway.

  123. greyghost says:

    Dale.
    You got it. Helping women is irresponsible because it enables rebellion. the wicked selfish nature of women is normal. The MRA’s failed because they are asking and begging for women to stop being women. Abortion is legal. a female can and will kill a helpless child that can’t survive without her. That is normal. As bad as that sounds. Women will rebel as long as it is safe for them to.
    Look at Sun Shine Mary’s blog “hooking up Smart’ The title says it all how to fuck everybody at no emotional or real cost. Indifference to women is a good way to change things because it hits women in the hypergamy. Productive men that stand up for their wife and only their wife become sexy real fast. No woman loves her man because she is a loving caring person. She is taking care of herself and that is good enough.
    One thing I tell my daughters (15-13) if you are not a wife so what. Girlfriends are nothing. I haven’t gone as far as tell them girlfriends are just for sticking your dick in because they are too young for that but that is the message and it is valid. I have told my oldest I’m with her mother because she is my wife. No way in hell would she be my girlfriend. There is a lot more on this dynamic.
    But the bottom line is rebellious behavior’s bad consequences need to be openly celebrated and the women laughed at or treated with indifference by men in sight and hearing of young women. Young men need to be taught how to spot such women and how to deal with such women in front of all women with confidence. Male spaces will clear out real fast. Ever notice how few women comment here.

  124. They Call Me Tom says:

    To be thirsty, you have to know that there is: (a) something worth drinking, (b) something that quenches your thirst, and (c) something that hasn’t gone dry.

    Hawk & Rock, you are mistaken if you think that men being thirsty for twenty something women (who even if feminist, are perhaps redeemable) is going to persist for seventy year old women (who if feminist, are way too old a dog to be learning new tricks).

  125. snowdensjacket0x0x0 says:

    My experience has been that my ex wife had no problems finding men. But she’s exceptionally hot and a sociopath master of manipulation. Most women? After I separated I once had a forty-five year old manager of Macy’s offer me a weekend of casual sex, and should would buy everything, she said. And made sure to tell me that her kids were with their dad.

    She straight offered me casual sex. And not entirely bad looking. Just not one of those top tier women.

    I had to say no. Because at age 33 this twenty year old nutcase had asked me out. And in my depression and despair from having my kid and life taken from me in a week? I was happy for her company. That’s the thing though. I was “dating” a girl thirteen years younger then me. Why would I pity fuck a forty-five year old?

    A week later she found me alone and apologized to me. She looked like she was going to cry. I had no idea what to say so I just walked away and did my best to avoid her in the future.

    Still my ex wife is fine and has found a beta who pays for my kid. She was an Olympic athlete though. I can see how she’s aged. Crows feet. She was better during our eight years.

    But most women are fat and so they are invisible. A woman who chooses to make herself beautiful will always have suitors. Most women are happy being fat and invisible though. I just wish they would leave me alone. It’s nice when they buy you stuff, though.

    Oh lol did I ever think I’d be living through my thirties with beta orbiter women? One girl gave me her queen size bed. Nice since I was sleeping in a sleeping bag. Having had everything I owned taken from me.

    Oh half? You think you will lose half your shit? If you accidentally marry a sociopath you will lose everything you have ever owned. And turned into a shadow “criminal” while you sleep in your truck. In a wal mart parking lot.

    All for the sin of looking through your “wife’s” phone. And walking out the door immediately.

  126. snowdensjacket0x0x0 says:

    Excellent post Dale.

    Exactly right. Women have no idea what they are doing. They are constantly testing out the power of their pussy. Be careful of sending your daughters off to college. BYU is the only college I would ever send a girl to. No matter the cost. At least they try to enforce a good culture.

    Women are simply not able to think into the future. It’s ridiculous to even get them to try. No wonder patriarchy is so effective. Having a woman’s father have a say in who she gives herself to.

    Otherwise? What happens if you give a six year old a hundred dollars up front in a candy store.

    Hey just try it if you’ve got a six year old.

    That’s your modern woman.

  127. They Call Me Tom says:

    p.s. Minesweeper…wow, the first chart alone on the second video… that’s shocking actually. Does that mean in general that most populations need a surplus of women to compensate for that high level of selectiveness/ hypergamy? (Although I recall someone mentioning that societies get unstable when the ratio goes in that direction) Sure, women get pragmatic, but that does that produce enough desire for procreation? How does the species persist in an 80% chasing 20% reality?

    Tangential to that… how do the 20% of the men sort through the 80% of women to figure out which ones are wife/ mother material? Sure you would think picking from 80% would be great, but doesn’t it turn into a needle and haystack situation ?

  128. Dave says:

    Any woman at least up until the age of 45 give or take 5 years can have sex and cuddling etc. if she wants it.

    So can any man. It is a myth to think that only the men have strong sexual drives. Healthy women want sex just as much as, if not more than men, granted that women are “slow cookers”. Women pretend not to want sex partly because of societal conditioning, and partly because men give them an upper hand when bargaining for sex. In any transaction, the party who displays less interest tends to have the upper hand.

    Sex is now a commodity, actually, and costs a dime a dozen. It all depends on who you’d like to have the sex with.

  129. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    snowdensjacket0x0x0: But most women are fat and so they are invisible.

    Now that I’m in my 50s, I wonder how many middle-aged women have come onto me, and I just didn’t see them.

    This past week at a Starbucks, a middle-aged woman (40s or 50s, hard to tell) began chatting with me at the counter, about trivial matters. She kept talking, trying to keep a conversation going, trying to find new things to say. I was annoyed that she kept talking to me, but I listened politely, giving friendly but curt responses. Eventually I got my coffee and was able to leave.

    Later, I wondered whether she had tried to pick me up. It hadn’t even crossed my mind at the time. She was invisible to me, in that I didn’t see her as an object of desire. She was especially invisible beside the pretty, young barrista who was taking my order.

    I suppose there are plenty of invisible middle-aged women out there, trying to pick up men, the men not ever realizing they’re being hit on because they don’t see these older women as sex objects.

  130. Micha Elyi says:

    I’ve already had some little disagreements in real life with churchians who insist on including single, never married, mothers in the same category as widows. I expect to have more.
    Anonymous Reader

    Keep up the good work, Anonymous Reader. The blanket term ‘single mother’ allows unwed and divorced mothers to hide behind the respectability of widowed mothers. Unwed and homewrecker mothers* must be denied this cover.

    * Sure, not every divorced mother is a homewrecker mother but unfortunately the majority have wrecked things for the few.

  131. Micha Elyi says:

    Look at Sun Shine Mary’s blog “hooking up Smart’…
    greyghost

    Hooking Up Smart is Susan Walsh’s blog, not SSM’s.

  132. greyghost says:

    That you Micha Elyi for the correction don’t want to be pushing falsehoods.

  133. Hawk&Rock says:

    “To be thirsty, you have to know that there is: (a) something worth drinking, (b) something that quenches your thirst, and (c) something that hasn’t gone dry.

    Hawk & Rock, you are mistaken if you think that men being thirsty for twenty something women (who even if feminist, are perhaps redeemable) is going to persist for seventy year old women (who if feminist, are way too old a dog to be learning new tricks).”

    This is frankly bizarre. Point out where I’ve so much as hinted at any of the things you’ve typed. “Seventy year old women?” WTF are you even talking about?

    The world is awash in men of all ages looking for sex and companionship — thirsty men. 80% of them in any age group are beggars not choosers. Accordingly, women who don’t want to be lonely — even old (40-55), fat, unpleasant women with other men’s children in tow — have a good chance of being pursued by this overwhelming majority of thirsty p*ssy beggars. And if women put themselves out there, they are pursued by such men. Relentlessly in fact. Don’t believe me? Take a look at your 40 year old divorced with kids friend’s OK Cupid account. I guarandamntee you she has from dozens to HUNDREDS of digital suitors trying to get in her pants.

    Are these pursuers quality men? Nope. Will they cater financially and emotionally to even low quality women to get laid? Yep. Therefore, the vast majority of women will never be lonely if they don’t want to be. Period.

    Sorry to burst the bubble of frivorced guys who were hoping their exes would die alone and regretful but the truth is that even if she is truly awful, she’ll find more than a few schlubs willing to love her and take care of her. Just the way it is.

  134. Hawk&Rock says:

    @Ace

    “Hawk&Rock says:
    October 22, 2015 at 7:21 pm
    “Not buying it. There are soooo many thirsty men out there it is almost unbelievable”

    True, there are many thirsty men out there, but not in the demographic relevant to this article (approx. 40-60 range).”

    You are kidding yourself.

    Again, ask one of your 40 something divorced with kids friends — everyone knows at least one, right? — if you can look at her OK Cupid or POF account. I think you will be truly shocked.

    If she’s not morbidly obese, she likely receives dozens of messages per month and if she is at all attractive, HUNDREDS.

    She’ll probably openly disparage the profiles of 95% of the men who contact her but those few who make the cut? Those thirsty chumps are actively wooing her and competing with other thirsty chumps for her affections. Hahaha

    More than a few of those thirsty chumps who have actually invested time and money in courting her will be dumped by her — by a 40 something divorced mom. Hahahaha

    Crazy but real life.

  135. Bee says:

    @Oscar,

    “No. They were not “created by God to serve men”. Read Proverbs 31.”

    Also read I Corinthians 11:7 -9 (woman was created for mans sake) & Genesis 2, 3, 4 (helpmeet, ruled over)

  136. Jeff says:

    I cant figure out why anyone hasnt done a blog disecting ssm, insanitybytes etc. That alone would give you more material than anything else PLUS it would teach a lot of us how to read between the lines AND something we can show our wives. Ive read their blogs and at times think ok thats close, but know something is off just cant put my finger on it. Then cc or dal disect it and BAM! Its obvious the subtleness of their hypergamy including dagonfly.

  137. Striver says:

    Boxer,

    I don’t think you’re right about the support network in the 1950s. There was never a better time to find social groups in churches or other community clubs. We were a nation of joiners then.

    It was the younger generations that rejected the support network. All of these old social and church clubs are dying. People don’t join anything anymore. If a woman is looking for advice, she will ask a friend, not look to a larger group.

  138. They Call Me Tom says:

    ‘If she’s not morbidly obese, if she is at all attractive,’

    That’s what you’re missing. That’s 5-10% of the 40-60 age range. Yes, attractive women still get interest if they maintain themselves, the slide still happens, but slower. But the other 90%, there’s no thirst for that.

  139. gargoylevrigin01 says:

    It looks like these women will get a taste of what many men felt like in their youth days. There are and were so many lonely men in their teens, 20s, and some 30s. Of course, most of them hid it inside lest they be labeled as a loser that needs to man up, a creep, a potential Elliot Rodger, and so on.
    There are even female virgins today demanding a guy who is sexually experienced, on the spectrum between a virgin and a player. See video and comments on video.

  140. Spacetraveller says:

    Well, apart from just noting that this Daily Mail article is just so sad on so many levels, I would like to point out some inconsistencies which both annoy and worry me (if I may vent a little here).

    Pregnancy is finally taking ist toll on me, but I hope this is at least a *controlled* rant and not the hormonal ejections of an emotional ‘hors-controlle’ freak😛.

    How worrisome for society when a 60 year old’s primary concern is sex with a stranger!
    At that age, a woman should be concentrating on fine-tuning the raising of grown children – in particular her daughters, no?
    Interesting that if a young man had written this article, the outraged public would retort – ‘so you think women owe you sex, Young Sir?’ which in principle is not a bad Response, granted.
    But such is the corruption of our gynocentric society now that a woman of SIXTY feels no shame in declaring to the world that she is going without. And no-one is pointing out to her that strange men in fact do not owe her sex.
    Not only shameless, but to boot is the knowledge that in fact she has just thrown out her only legal source of such ‘goodies’ – her husband of many years.
    Is it then not her fault if she is now without a regular supply, so to speak?

    Many of my (female) friends who are still single have the absolutely sickening prospect of either competing with their own mothers from the same dating pool of men, or even worse, finding that their mothers are more successful where (casual, of course) sex is concerned.

    What a turn-off. And how unfortunate for our generation. This lack of dignity among older women is a leading cause of disharmony in society. It really must stop.

    If younger women are to make their way to the straight and narrow path, the first step must be that older women show them how to. Or, as others, eg. Mulier have suggested upthread, rely on the ‘Men, civilise us!’ plan.

    (Women socialise men, and men civilise women is my favourite catchphrase).

    If older women are beyond reproach or repair, how to save younger women?

    I am not about ‘Schadenfreude’ at all. How could I be? I feel nothing but pain for an older woman whose life is so destroyed that her preoccupation is…..sex with strangers.
    There cannot be a lower step for a woman…of any age. Honestly, that is the lowest pit-stop.

    But my primary concern is for women my age or younger.
    So to those who enjoy nothing more than a good shaming of older, frankly utterly worthless women like those profiled in the article, my words to you would be, do carry on, for the sake of the future generations of society. Regrettably, I cannot fault you for your shaming.

    Perhaps you are doing the world a favour by showing these poor specimens of womanhood how far off the mark they really are.
    Perhaps, for the first time in their miserable lives, they need to hear that their chronically bad behaviours are ruining their own lives and others’.

  141. Hawk&Rock says:

    ‘If she’s not morbidly obese, if she is at all attractive,’

    That’s what you’re missing. That’s 5-10% of the 40-60 age range. Yes, attractive women still get interest if they maintain themselves, the slide still happens, but slower. But the other 90%, there’s no thirst for that.”

    Hahaha. Wha?

    I don’t know where you live but if 90%-95% of women age 40-60 are morbidly obese, you may want to consider moving.

  142. L. Lurker says:

    Jeff says:

    Its obvious the subtleness of their hypergamy including dagonfly.

    Their mission is to “build a better alpha — for me!” The message they have for men is, “Be a nicer, gentler alpha, one that I could use to satisfy my needs for status. And maybe sex, if you a good enough alpha for me.”

    This includes clobbering other men and women over their heads, in humblebraggy ways, with descriptions of their awesomest alpha husbands to whom they submit oh-so-sweetly day in and out. Or, alternatively, struggle to submit so sweetly, but overcome, cos they are all such dutiful Christian wives.

    Their game is easy to see through.

    Susan Walsh at HUS and her followers also play, unknowingly, the “build a better alpha — for me!” game, but without Christianity or submission.

    Yeah, it’s there, and not really subtle.

  143. Dale says:

    @Oscar:
    >How many 17-year-olds of either sex consider their 45-year-old anything? The number approaches zero. Getting them to think past 21 requires divine intervention.

    LOL. Yes, okay you are mostly correct. But not entirely. Even in high school, some young men are thinking about their career ahead, with an eye to becoming capable of supporting a family. I was among them. So not all adolescents stop their thinking at 2 years ahead (or less).

    >That’s why they have parents – particularly fathers – to think that far ahead for them

    Absolutely correct.

  144. Bee says:

    @Oscar,

    You referenced Proverbs 31. In verse 11 the word “husband” is “baal” in Hebrew. In other places it is translated as “owner” and “lord”.

    The Proverbs 31 woman is a middle aged married woman. She has most likely been married for 15 or 20 years. Proof for this is that she has children old enough to bless her and her husband is known in the gates. In ancient Hebrew culture, young men were not given places of honor and looked to for wisdom in the gates, that came as they got middle aged and older.

    In the Proverbs 31 woman we see the fruit or benefits that a wife who has been submissive and a helpmeet to her husband for 15 to 20 years receives. Her husband has learned to trust her and he blesses her with a lot of freedom and financial authority.

    I have seen this in my own marriage. My wife makes a genuine effort to submit and she speaks of me respectfully to others, choosing to ignore and not discuss my faults with others. Therefore, I sometimes cut her some slack when she has an emotional storm, I give her lots of freedom, and I pedestalize her occasionally. It does not go to her head and cause problems.

  145. @Rollo: “Wait a minute, wait. a. minute. I thought women had to beat off with a stick all the male callers they were getting once their husband’s kicked off or they divorced at 68?

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/02/27/grannies-gone-wild/

    I don’t think you’re doing your due diligence here Dal.”

    –Poes Law strikes again. You almost had me.

    @Oscer:

    GREAT job on Proverbs 31. That exactly.

    @Greyghost: “Look at Sun Shine Mary’s blog “hooking up Smart’”

    SMM is not Aunt Giggles. HUS is Aunt Giggles- aka Susan Walsh’s.

    @Snowdensjacket:

    She took everything except your future. That is up to you. The very best revenge is living well.

  146. gargoylevrigin01 says:

    As everyone knows here, it is not just women who say it is all the man’s fault. It is men also. On YouTube, I have seen these alpha tough guys act like they are so good at getting girls, and shame and attack men who are single virgins. I had a discussion with one. He said that society favors PUAs and players who pump and dump women to male virgins who respect women. He said these PUAs and players have potential for pro-creating and starting families. He also said he believes in shaming men who are “normal” in their 40s who don’t have families. By not reproducing, a man is killing off the tribe he says. I asked him if he believes a normal man not reproducing is the equivalent of a woman having an abortion. He didn’t quite answer my question, but I going to assume he is thinking yes. I asked him about those with autism or any handicapped attributes. He said that is an entirely different matter, and he got annoyed that I dare question the PUAs and players. I really had to suck up to him to get an answer out of him. He says that he has nothing against those men who can’t or shouldn’t reproduce. He does not believe in shaming them. He says only if a man is “normal”, then you deserved to be shamed and attacked.
    What angers me is that a lot of these guys are hypocrites. They sleep around and then attack and shame single virgin men who not married.
    Ever see Rocking Mr. E on YouTube? I agree with a lot of what he says. However, I grow tired of his alpha attitude and shaming men who are single. He says (to paraphrase) that those men who fail to reproduce are parasites to society and should go back to the jungle. He says that they are just as bad as the feminists.
    Another male YouTuber talks on one of his videos about young men who don’t have girlfriends. He accuses them of living in their momma’s basement playing video games, don’t go outside, don’t go to the gym, and have no social skills to talk to women.
    It is as if these men believe that feminism would die if all of the “undesirable” men would die. It is as if they also believe that if a man does not have a girlfriend, he is a misogynist and is a potential shooter.. This is similar how feminists behave.
    This reminds me of the article(s) Dalrock wrote on “Feminism would work if weak men were not screwing it up.”

  147. Splashman says:

    @Jeff: “I cant figure out why anyone hasnt done a blog disecting ssm, insanitybytes etc.”

    You’re categorizing Sunshine Mary together with InsanityBytes? Are you insane?

  148. Mark says:

    @Dalrock………..Great Post Mr.’D’!

    Concerning these over 40 wimminz.The reasons that they seem to get so many dates is that they are “targets”……nothing else! Trust me I know.I have slept with hordes of them.My friends and I know that they are lonely,whether divorced or not.They make great booty calls.But,that is where you have to keep it.They will try to “establish” a relationship with you but,you have to make it VERY clear to them ……”I am not looking for a relationship at this time but,I really like spending time with you”……UGH!….Translation:…”I have no interest in spending any time with you at all except for sex”.This might sound crude?…..Oh well! It is what it is! Any woman over the age of 40,single or divorced(especially with kids) is in no position to dictate the terms of the relationship.My attitude is this…SW..SW..SW…Next!……….(Some will….Some won’t…So what….NEXT!) They are a dime a dozen and nothing to get overly excited about!

    @Boxer

    “”Anyone can get sex, pretty much on demand, in this society. It’s really a question of standards.””

    I know A guy at the office that cracks me up.He shags ALOT of women! All over 40….and all fatties! His motto…” I like the heavy babes….the lineups are not as long”…..L*…..He does have a point! Again,it comes to standards!

    Something concerning this post. I was at a meeting on Tuesday this week concerning Real Estate in Toronto.On one side of the table you had major real estate moguls in the city and on the other side of the table the useless gov’t jag offs of the Kathleen(Lesbian) Wynn provincial gov’t.The whole reason for the meeting was the building or converting buildings to “retirement homes”. The main criteria that I got from the meeting was…..”for every one man in a retirement home there will be 7 to 9 women”.Of course,I could not help myself to voice my opinion on Feminazism.I stood up and removed my jacket and went on a bit of a rampage of the ravages that Feminazism has produced on our society.The gov’t jag offs were a total of 1 mangina and 4 wimminz…..and I looked,and talked to the wimminz.I hold most gov’t employees with total contempt….and I let loose…..”You useless gov’t morons need the wealthy to bail you out because of your stupid gov’t policies……..it seems that the “virtues” of Feminism have come home to roost…..I don’t know how my esteemed colleagues feel concerning his subject but,I for one will not be contributing any assets in order to bail out your useless administration and it’s garbage policies”……..The room went VERY quiet! That was the end of the meeting.Afterwards my colleagues came over to shake my hand and said…”brilliant!…it needed to be said”.The irony of it is when I got back to the office my father called me from upstairs.He said…”are you coming over for dinner tonight?….I replied “Yes I was”….He replied..”I want to talk to you….dinner is at 7pm….don’t be late”……*CLICK*. When I arrived and went into his study he told me how proud he was of me to stand up to those gov’t morons.I inquired as to how he knew?….”I had 3 phone calls from the other people in the room that praised you for your “speech” and utter contempt for those gov’t idiots”.When we sat down to dinner I expressed my enthusiasm for converting some buildings to “retirement homes”…..based on the stats that I have gotten.My attitude is “all these ‘independent’ wimminz are going to be handing their life savings over to us and I plan on capitalizing on this predicament”. Someone has to make money….and it might as well be our family!

  149. *Elsewhere in the article they explain that over the last 17 years Susan has been propositioned “a couple of” times for no strings sex but turned them down due to her high moral standards.

    Wait a minute……her high moral standards? Where tha mutha fuck were those standards when she was younger? Oh yeah……that’s right…….we can’t judge her on her past. FUCK HER!!!!!!

  150. anonymous_ng says:

    @Mark, your description of the over 40 woman describes my ex. She decided we were getting divorced and started screwing two guys, one about her age, and another ten years younger. She ended up breaking up with the younger one because all he wanted was sex. Duh.

    Is there a way to get in touch with you outside of Dalrock’s blog comments? I have a question.

  151. Centurion says:

    The dating sites are full of women pining for a hug and male companionship. It’s quite interesting.

  152. Opus says:

    I am a little confused: if it is the case that there are hordes of frustrated women anxious to engage in casual sex, then why when the scam was rumbled was it that the majority of punters at Ashley Madison were revealed to be male such that the company was making fake female profiles. Dave says that women are as keen on sex as men but if that is so they never show it: the local discotheque bears no resemblance to the local Gay Bath-house.

    When it comes to women there is no such thing as free sex: they always act as if they are giving something away and that you are thus especially favoured. Anything given free is only a sample.

    The other thing that puzzles me is that (I am told) young women are full of complexes and hang-ups and yet to listen to them you as a male are lower than the unworthiest of earth-worms; men however do not seem to have hang-ups and shrug off disappointments, yet they never act as if women owe them a favour.

  153. BradA says:

    Greyghost,

    I don’t know the name of Sunshine Mary’s blog, but it is not HUS. That is Aunt Giggles. She is the one who dumped the red pill reaching for blogging dollars.

    I completely agree that the name shows that it was never a good focus and that has been an ongoing point I made here and there in the old version of the blog.

    (This has been covered, but I am leaving it in anyway.)

    ====

    Hawk,

    I would never be pulled to a fat woman, no matter how lonely I was, but then I doubt I would be pulled to anyone other than my wife at this point. Fortunately she has almost 0% chance of going fat. They could hit on me all day and while I might tall with them, I would never be sexually attracted to them. Blech.

    Bee,

    Something often missing here is that we need to cut our wives more slack at times. It can be a challenging road to walk, but it is certainly worth it for a valuable woman. I am working out the “just shut up and ignore things” more often. Making a big issue out of everything is not very smart nor productive.

    gargoyle,

    Those men are idiots. Following God’s ways are ultimately worth far more. God cares a lot more about civilization than some PUA.

  154. Minesweeper says:

    Something seems very off with Hawk&Rock.

    Him\her experience seems way way too at odds with everyone elses. Troll\feminist\female?

  155. Minesweeper says:

    Opus, men as only considered lower than earth worms because they only really want sex and they think men cant understand female “indirect” communication – so they think they are thick.

    To brighten the thread this is funny, which shows indirect communication and competition.

  156. infowarrior1 says:

    Guys SSM is not what she is cut out to be

    Dont know if SSM repented but this is what happened:
    http://mattforney.com/sunshine-marys-slander/

    http://mattforney.com/manosphere-dead-killed/

    Had a bad experience. Be wary guys.

  157. ray says:

    ‘The whole analysis is a sales pitch to men on OK Cupid to stop overlooking older women, complete with promises of more sex, oral, etc. ‘

    Wow. Puts the ‘ad’ in sad. Obviously they’re still in rebellion though.

    This demographic combined with political dominance = disaster.

  158. Jack Russell Terrorist says:

    Concerning these over 40 wimminz.The reasons that they seem to get so many dates is that they are “targets”……nothing else!

    Thanks for putting these govt paid hacks in their place Mark. They are used to getting molly coddled by the CBC and Global TV. We have our premier in BC, Christy Clarke. Not divorced as I know, but separated and from what I have heard she is seeing a beta-mangina. She pretended to be offended a few years ago when Richard Branson said she can ride nude on his shoulders while he waterskis. She even lost her own seat in the last election. Her neighbors didn’t want her elected and voted socialist, even though she lives in an upper class neigbourhood. She ran in West Kelowna later and won. She is feminazi light and has her own email scandal.I live south of that city fortunately.

  159. Dave says:

    To brighten the thread this is funny, which shows indirect communication and competition.

    In the good old days, competition used to be about who could do the best and most productive job, using the fewest resources and within the shortest time frame. These days, it’s all about who has the saddest, most horrific, and most complex personal sob story. Me-too victims are everywhere stealing the spotlight.

  160. feeriker says:

    But such is the corruption of our gynocentric society now that a woman of SIXTY feels no shame in declaring to the world that she is going without.

    Women now entering their sixties are women who came of age back when second wave feminism was in its ascendancy and were irreparably corrupted by it. Thus it’s no surprise that all of this is coming back to bite them where the sun doesn’t hit them now that they’re entering their dotage. This is going to be a VERY common thing over the next three decades. There shall be much wailing and gnashing of teeth …

  161. Oscar says:

    @ Bee says:
    October 24, 2015 at 7:32 am

    “Also read I Corinthians 11:7 -9 (woman was created for mans sake) & Genesis 2, 3, 4 (helpmeet, ruled over)”

    Correct, but which man? A woman is to submit to and serve her husband, not men in general. Note that 1 Corinthians 11:3-16 references Adam and Eve. In other words, it references the first marriage, God’s perfect design for marriage.

    8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man… 12 For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.

    The passage also references headship

    3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

    Which man is a woman’s head? Her husband is.

    Eph 5:3 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.

    We should therefore be specific. A woman should submit to and serve her husband, NOT men in general. That was my point when I replied to Gunner Q.

    @ Bee says:
    October 24, 2015 at 2:24 pm

    “The Proverbs 31 woman is a middle aged married woman. She has most likely been married for 15 or 20 years. Proof for this is that she has children old enough to bless her and her husband is known in the gates. In ancient Hebrew culture, young men were not given places of honor and looked to for wisdom in the gates, that came as they got middle aged and older.

    In the Proverbs 31 woman we see the fruit or benefits that a wife who has been submissive and a helpmeet to her husband for 15 to 20 years receives. Her husband has learned to trust her and he blesses her with a lot of freedom and financial authority.”

    I agree with this assessment, and would probably push it even further. Girls typically married between 14 and 16 back then, boys between 16 and 20. A man respected enough to sit at the gates and mediate disputes between neighbors would be in his 40s at minimum, more likely in his 50s. Chances are that the “excellent wife” and her husband were in their 40s or 50s, and had been married 30 years or so. The chapter is a description of her lifetime of achievements, not of a day in her life.

  162. Yet Another Commenter, Yet Another Comment says:

    gargoylevrigin01 wrote:
    October 24, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    “[…] On YouTube, I have seen these alpha tough guys […] shame and attack men
    who are single virgins. I had a discussion with one. He said that society favors
    PUAs and players who pump and dump women to male virgins who respect women. He
    said these PUAs and players have potential for pro-creating and starting families.

    And male virgins don’t have the potential for eventually starting families? So, IIUC
    because all males are born virgin and typically remain virgins until they first get laid,
    they have all always lacked the potential for pro-creating and starting a family, and
    so now, at last, we have the full explanation of why the human species went extinct
    all those thousands of years ago. I am so very happy someone has finally solved
    that mystery. [/sarc]

    Meanwhile, PUA pump-and-dump includes that word “dump”, as in no family formed.

    “He also said he believes in shaming men who are “normal” in their 40s who don’t
    have families. By not reproducing, a man is killing off the tribe he says.”

    No. It’s just more BS from him. What is going on here is the exact male equivalent
    of women who are “sexually active” trying to shame young women who haven’t yet
    lost their virginity into getting laid ASAP, because hypergamy doesn’t just manifest
    as women trying to trade up men, but also in trying to trade other women down.
    It’s also projection on his part. He is fully aware he is a socially destructive @.hole,
    and so his “belief” in shaming men who are trying to practice anything that might be
    moral sexual behaviour is 100% about directing his own disgust with himself outward,
    lest he have to condemn himself.

    “[…] Ever see Rocking Mr. E on YouTube? I agree with a lot of what he says.

    However, I grow tired of his alpha attitude and shaming men who are single. He
    says (to paraphrase) that those men who fail to reproduce are parasites to
    society and should go back to the jungle. He says that they are just as bad as
    the feminists.

    Interesting: people who are economically productive but also proportionately
    underconsuming are “parasites”. Yeah. Sure. ‘Scuze me while I eat this here
    Kosher bacon double-cheese burger.

    Another male YouTuber talks on one of his videos about young men who don’t
    have girlfriends. He accuses them of living in their momma’s basement playing video
    games, don’t go outside, don’t go to the gym, and have no social skills to talk to women.

    Sometimes, this is true. They have no social skills, etc., and so no girlfriends.

    But, that is their problem, not his. So why does it bug him enough for him to feel the
    need to mock them for this? If he wanted to help them, he’d be offering advice, so that
    is not it. A guess: he mocks them, to feel better about himself, by distracting himself
    from how bad he feels about himself. You’ve provided no other details, so one could
    only speculate beyond this point. But, if he’s a PUA, he knows he’s destroying lives.

    It is as if these men believe that feminism would die if all of the ‘undesirable’ men
    would die.

    No. Why would the jackals genuinely condemn the lion that killed the carcass off of
    which they feed? Why would the PUAs genuinely condemnt the ideology that killed
    of the comparatively morally ordered SMP & MMP that existed before Second Wave
    Feminism? PUAs have always existed, but never in such numbers, and never with a
    comparable perceived general social standing. There are more of them, because
    feminism created opportunity for growth in their demographic sector, and all the FI
    arguments, social re-engineering and legal reforms tearing down responsible males
    and their social roles, implicitly build up all the irresponsible males, and their social
    opportunism. True PUAs, who don’t mind at all who they are (zero repentence), are
    not enemies of Feminism in any genuine way. So, they don’t genuinely want it to die.
    But they wouldn’t mind at all if “all the ‘undesirable’ men would die”, because who is
    there with zero repentence, who wants anything at all prodding at their conscience?

    So, gargoylevrigin01, the stuff you are complaining about is illogical crap,
    born of malice, pursued to avoid awareness of sin (or, if Religion isn’t your bag —
    to avoid awareness of being an @.hole who is part of the problem, and not part of
    the solution), and targetting virtuous behaviour precisely because it is virtuous.

    See it for the illogical, self-serving, malicious crap it is, and I bet that it will not bother
    very much at all any more.

  163. Rocket says:

    I will have to concur with one point in the referenced article. I recently decided to give up on escorts and try finding a Sugar Baby as a preferred substitute. So I did my research and found an attractive single mother who didn’t have a lot of options posting on Match.com, POF.com and a Sugar Daddy site. Looking for a boyfriend … a RICH boyfriend would be even better.

    So I contacted her thru the SD site … obviously if I’d contacted her thru the other sites I would have been rejected as NOT GOOD ENOUGH. So I paid the money to join the SD site and contacted her thru there. Thru the SD site, ha ha … willing to talk. Met her the first time almost 2 months ago. Brought her back to my place, escalated and got affectionate. Took her to the bedroom and kissed her deeply and she MELTED … fucked her on the first date.

    And as typical for single moms, took nearly a month to arrange a second date. And then work a mutually beneficial arrangement. Seen her for the last 3 weeks in a row and fucked her 2x each time. She is very affectionate and starved for physical contact. She is 12 years younger than me (42) and don’t think she’s been touched physically in probably 3-5 yrs. She has 23 and 18 yr olds and then a 7 yr old. Project back a few yrs … 37, attractive but with 18, 13, and 2; with ex husbands 2x. Yeah, 2 ex’s, teenager trouble and a youngster. No man in his right mind would touch that shit. And all that will ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

    So yes these women are starved for affection. And it is entirely their own fault.

    Funny thing about this one. We actually get along REALLY WELL which is why I picked her. Sex is great but beyond that she’s reasonable smart (nurse), has fairly decent morals (compared to the average slut), has done a pretty decent job raising her kids and actually had the kids fathers involved in their lives; which is unusual these days. But needless to say, I am way out of her league. Which she now realizes after we’ve met a few times. And here is what everyone needs to know and backs up the OP and the reffed article. Had I contacted her thru normal channels or even Match or POF … I would have been rejected as NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

    Yes, lots of older women are starved for attention. Yes, it is entirely their own fault. Yes, even if you are a very good match for them and way out of their league they will reject you anyway. All backed up from very personal experience. TRUTH.

  164. Don Quixote says:

    Mark says:
    October 24, 2015 at 3:37 pm

    Something concerning this post. I was at a meeting on Tuesday this week concerning Real Estate in Toronto.On one side of the table you had major real estate moguls in the city and on the other side of the table the useless gov’t jag offs of the Kathleen(Lesbian) Wynn provincial gov’t.The whole reason for the meeting was the building or converting buildings to “retirement homes”. The main criteria that I got from the meeting was…..”for every one man in a retirement home there will be 7 to 9 women”.Of course,I could not help myself to voice my opinion on Feminazism.I stood up and removed my jacket and went on a bit of a rampage of the ravages that Feminazism has produced on our society.The gov’t jag offs were a total of 1 mangina and 4 wimminz…..and I looked,and talked to the wimminz.I hold most gov’t employees with total contempt….and I let loose…..”You useless gov’t morons need the wealthy to bail you out because of your stupid gov’t policies……..it seems that the “virtues” of Feminism have come home to roost…..I don’t know how my esteemed colleagues feel concerning his subject but,I for one will not be contributing any assets in order to bail out your useless administration and it’s garbage policies”……..The room went VERY quiet! That was the end of the meeting.Afterwards my colleagues came over to shake my hand and said…”brilliant!…it needed to be said”.The irony of it is when I got back to the office my father called me from upstairs.He said…”are you coming over for dinner tonight?….I replied “Yes I was”….He replied..”I want to talk to you….dinner is at 7pm….don’t be late”……*CLICK*. When I arrived and went into his study he told me how proud he was of me to stand up to those gov’t morons.I inquired as to how he knew?….”I had 3 phone calls from the other people in the room that praised you for your “speech” and utter contempt for those gov’t idiots”.When we sat down to dinner I expressed my enthusiasm for converting some buildings to “retirement homes”…..based on the stats that I have gotten.My attitude is “all these ‘independent’ wimminz are going to be handing their life savings over to us and I plan on capitalizing on this predicament”. Someone has to make money….and it might as well be our family!

    For the first time in my life I would like to give a standing ovation to a realtor.
    Well done!

  165. Retrenched says:

    Seems like everyone is tossing in their anecdotes and observations, so here are mine… take em or leave em.

    1. From what I’ve gathered it’s hard to find a sexually inactive woman under the age of, say, 50 or 55, who isn’t sexually inactive by choice. Women are the gatekeepers and the choosers of sex, as it’s almost always their “yes” or “no” that decides whether or not sex takes place. If a woman isn’t getting laid it’s because she’s avoiding or saying “no” to all the guys who would be willing to have sex with her; it’s not that there are no men willing to have sex with her.

    2. Most women under the age of 55 who aren’t deformed, toothless or obese can get sex from some man, somewhere. Yes, if they are at middle age then they will probably have to lower their standards and be more aggressive and forward, but the sex will still be there for them if they want to work for it. They won’t get the alpha jocks or bad boys they could get at 22, but there are plenty of frustrated betas out there for them, guys who will take just about any woman who doesn’t look like Chewbacca (especially if they make it really easy for them by doing the approach, escalating etc).

    3. The incredible sexual power that young women have over men comes at the expense of their older peers (similar to how the harem building alpha’s success comes at the expense of the beta). Yet you don’t see many young women complain about this disparity when they’re the belle of the ball and the life of the party, nor do you hear them empathize with their lonely elder sisters. No, it’s only after their looks fade a bit, and the guys they used to get are seeking out younger women, that they start to cry about how unfair it is that men their age (or older) don’t want them anymore.

    4. The prevailing attitude of our culture re: gender relations is that women always have a right to get whatever it is they happen to want from men, but that men must always, always, always, ALWAYS work for and earn whatever it is they happen to want from women. A man’s worthiness must always be continually proven, while women’s worthiness is just accepted as a given, and must never be questioned under any circumstances whatsoever. To even suggest that a woman might have to work to earn sex, love, relationships and marriage the same way that men must work for these things is considered vicious misogyny and beyond the pale. Like, wow just wow I can’t even don’t you know that it’s the current year?

  166. Dave says:

    The dating sites are full of women pining for a hug and male companionship. It’s quite interesting.
    (translation: “dating sites are full of women who will do anything, including have sex, to get a man’s attention and affection).

    Soooooo, it looks like women are just as thirsty as men then? Haha.

  167. greyghost says:

    lets not get to cheery about this fellas. Any woman can get dick. Physical appearance is not an effective birth control. Some of the mothers and pregnant women I have seen are shocking as to ‘How in the hell did that happen” or “who was hittin that”.
    What they are starved for is real male loving desire to please the woman and make her happy. (affectionate concern for them) The kind that they are not getting and don’t deserve. There is not a woman alive that will get what my wife and kids get. She can be beautiful so what. I’m single yeah I’ll screw some 41 year old single mom but she can bet her ass she will be just as lonely when I pull my dick out of her as she was before she met me. To be honest a woman that age shouldn’t even be available especially if she has kids and that alone says only good enough for a booty call.
    The only woman that rates is a wife. She maybe a piece of shit but she is a wife the rest are just cunts to be used for lowering sperm counts.
    Those old cunts what and crave some body to give a shit about them and that is a whole lot different than shooting a load into their stink holes. And they know they are lonely because they all had that empowered themselves out of it.

  168. Dave says:

    From what I’ve gathered it’s hard to find a sexually inactive woman under the age of, say, 50 or 55, who isn’t sexually inactive by choice. Women are the gatekeepers and the choosers of sex, as it’s almost always their “yes” or “no” that decides whether or not sex takes place. If a woman isn’t getting laid it’s because she’s avoiding or saying “no” to all the guys who would be willing to have sex with her; it’s not that there are no men willing to have sex with her.

    Again, this is a humongous myth, and has no basis in reality. There are many, many women who would love to have sex but can’t find a sexual partner. Yes, right here in the US and in all major cities of the world.
    And, no, these women are not hideous fatties or socially awkward slobs. Many of them are average looking or very attractive, and relatively young as well.
    This belief that every woman can get sex at any time is based on the same belief that there are no more virgins on earth. Of course, if it is to have sex with anyone available then we can equally argue that any man can get sex at any time as well. It’s like counting sheds, sidewalks and under the bridges as homes, then concluding that “any homeless person can get a home at any time they want”.

    1. If any woman can get sex any time she wants, why do sexual toys sell so much? Americans have made sex toys into a $15 billion industry, mostly by women.
    2. Story of a woman who almost went psychotic because she could not get sex.
    3. Women who want to have sex must be committed to taking action to get them sex. I wonder if that is not true of men? Here, young women compare notes about their dry spells.
    4. Women wondering if everyone else is having sex without them!
    5. Women advising themselves on “How to survive” the dreaded dry spell.
    6. Even Victoria’s Secret models experience dry spells

    Incidentally, all of these complaints about not getting sex were written by [young] women who are presumably averagely attractive. As is clear from the articles, women desire and enjoy sex every bit as much as men. Please, let us lay the belief that women could have sex at any time to rest. They can’t, for various reasons. In the same way that men can’t, for various reasons.

  169. Dave says:

    She took everything except your future…

    Proof that you didn’t have good furniture. In the future, don’t be too cheap. Be a man; decorate your place with top of the line furniture that will be worth taking away by your woman.

  170. Dave says:

    Sorry I thought it was furniture…..I guess I am half asleep

  171. greyghost says:

    ha ha ha ha ha
    Funny mistake Dave

  172. Minesweeper says:

    gg- Any woman can get dick. wrong , look at the op.

    they can’t get dick to meet their minimum standards – so therefore no dick will be had , it’s like saying any man can get pussy, if your willing to hit what most would consider repulsive then yeah all the pussy you can handle

  173. Minesweeper says:

    gg – The only woman that rates is a wife.

    and what the hell is that nowadays ? what obligation does she have towards you barring her own goodwill ?

  174. Dave says:

    ha ha ha ha ha
    Funny mistake Dave

    I was trying to sound sarcastic, but apparently, the joke was on me!

  175. Hawk&Rock says:

    Lola @Minesweeper

    Uh oh! Disturbance in the echo chamber!! Burn the heretic!!!

    Yeah. I’m a feminist troll. Nice work, Sherlock.

    My experience:

    Women who have affairs and divorce their husbands are not only not sanctioned by Christian churches, they are embraced and supported by them.

    Courts protect and subsidize them and yes … are HEAVILY biased in their favor with respect to custody and spousal support.

    Potential male suitors will date them and provide them with financial and emotional support without reservation.

    In a nutshell, there is little social, emotional or economic disincentive (and indeed, plenty of incentive) for women to divorce their husbands. Very, very few of them will ULTIMATELY up alone and/or unhappy.

    Minesweeper et al. may wish otherwise but for many mc/umc women, divorce works out just peachy.

    For children and men? That’s another story but kids grow up and nobody really gives a shit what happens to men anyway.

    That’s my experience.

  176. Opus says:

    @Minesweeper

    Thankyou for the explanation and for the funny video. I could not quite place the accent. English, no; American, not quite, but I see it hails from Australia, and talking about Oz, I read today that top Biologist and all-round Feminist Germaine Greer has declared that Transgender people like Caitlyn Jenner are not women but Men – sorry Bruce (who I had previously never heard of). We make fun of Germaine but actually she is pretty smart and for a Feminist pretty anti-women – only a woman can say what she says without being accused of misogyny.

    I think I can, however, help: Transgender people are not Men because Transgender people are actually She-Males aka. Ladyboys, aka Katoyes, aka New-Halfs, Cocks-in-Frocks and Chicks-with-Dicks.

  177. greyghost says:

    they can’t get dick to meet their minimum standards – so therefore no dick will be had , it’s like saying any man can get pussy, if your willing to hit what most would consider repulsive then yeah all the pussy you can handle

    Don’t confuse dick with love or even beta orbiter chump status. Now if you add in what she wants to the variable anything goes. I was just speaking from a male choice POV what a 40 plus divorced chick could expect from men. So what, what her expectations are. We are talking to men here.

  178. greyghost says:

    gg – The only woman that rates is a wife.

    and what the hell is that nowadays ? what obligation does she have towards you barring her own goodwill ?

    She is a wife. If a man feels she is not then she is an ex wife and can join the ranks of the booty call cunts. (Mgtow is the preferred route) But again talking to males dealing with old complaining pussy.

  179. Rocket says:

    I have figured out a ton of stuff over the last few years thanks to blogs like this and Rollo’s excellent body of work. But there is one thing I’ve NEVER been able to understand. As women get older and older, their SMV and MMV both go down. Been explained thoroughly. What doesn’t make sense is as woman’s values GOES down, they actually get CHOOSIER and CHOOSIER. And they repeat the mantra “NEVER SETTLE”, “NEVER SETTLE”.

    Even men they used to consider desirable enough are no longer good enough. Lets say both are the same age. At age 30 a woman is a 7 and the guy is an 8. She considers him “good enough”. Yet at age 50 the woman has fallen to a 4 and the guy has fallen to 6 due to normal aging and life experiences … she will now reject him: NOT GOOD ENOUGH !

    From a man’s perspective it just doesn’t make sense. If your value has fallen and you want to continue to attract the same men, then … up your game and work harder to maintain your attractiveness. Or they will have to lower their standards. THEY REFUSE TO DO EITHER. And in many cases they ACTUALLY RAISE THEIR STANDARDS. This is what’s truly baffling to me. They demand commitment and resources to be wined and dined and romanced. For weeks or months. When younger they put out easier and now are older and less desirable and so a man has to work harder and harder for an inferior product. At some point men just say No, not worth the effort. And there is the lower T factor as well. Sex for a man just becomes not as important as he gets older. He may have worked that hard for pussy at 30 … but at 50 ? No, too much effort … too little reward.

    They real killer which I think women fail to realize is that a younger man probably doesn’t know what a raw deal society gives men in terms of marriage. Or they want kids/family/white picket fence/etc and realize the harsh reality of the true story. That idealized marriage/family is nearly impossible in the current climate. Yet MANY, MANY older men who’ve been through the divorce-rape of Family Court or have seen other men who have, and THEY DO see a lot of what is going on. And so they are very leery of marriage as they get older. So its actually HARDER to get these men to commit

    Women’s behavior in all this makes no sense.

    So I have no sympathy for them at all. It is all entirely their own fault and they COULD change it if they wanted to. But they won’t. They seem to prefer to end up alone … though of course they bitch about it and try to blame men. They can spin it all they want but any male who’s taken the Red Pill can see, what’s up: women are doing this to themselves.

  180. Rocket says:

    Oops, typo. Previous post should have said:

    Or they want kids/family/white picket fence/etc and DON”T realize the harsh reality of the true story.

  181. Darlock, I read the whole article. I didn’t see anything spoken by any of the 3 women that leads me to believe that they “blame men” for their situation. They don’t seem to be blaming anyone. THe Daily Mail just gave the article an inappropriate title.

  182. Jim says:

    “Women’s behavior in all this makes no sense.”

    Well of course not. Women don’t think, they “feel” (yes, exception, blah blah).

  183. The “blamers” that divorce-rape their husbands and never find another guy, I wish them all the loneliness in the world possible. They can go straight to Hell. Alone.

  184. Exfernal says:

    @IBB You are not the first to ask that. Someone has to have the blame piled on them, and surely it’s not these women themselves nor those who gave them bad advice (‘the whispers’).

  185. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Rocket: What doesn’t make sense is as woman’s values GOES down, they actually get CHOOSIER and CHOOSIER. And they repeat the mantra “NEVER SETTLE”, “NEVER SETTLE”.

    It only doesn’t make sense if you believe them. And sometimes you should. But often, I think these women are lying. They would gladly settle. But they don’t have that option. No man wants them. So they pretend they’re alone by choice.

    It’s all about saving face.

    You know how status-conscious women are, especially before other women. Choice is one of those sacred words to women. Women always pretend that if they’re alone, they’re alone by choice. That they’re getting lots of offers for sex. That they’re still desired by men. But their standards are too high. They have too much self-respect. They’d rather be alone and empowered — ain’t it grand! — than stoop to having sex with some unworthy man.

    I first noticed this over 30 years ago. The Phil Donahue Show was doing a show on older women, younger men. Donahue asked if the couples on stage planned to marry. In one couple, the younger man said he wasn’t interested in marriage. “But that’s mutual!” the older woman quickly interjected. “That’s my choice!

    She interjected too quickly. I realized then that she was fearful that the audience might think she was unwanted for marriage by her younger man. She was trying to save face by insisting that it was her choice not to marry.

    Listen to how quickly women, if they’re alone, will add that it’s my choice to be alone. I’m alone, not lonely. It’s all about saving face.

  186. cptnemo2013 says:

    Reblogged this on MGTOW 2.0.

  187. Gunner Q says:

    Rocket @ 10:01 am:
    “But there is one thing I’ve NEVER been able to understand. As women get older and older, their SMV and MMV both go down… as woman’s values GOES down, they actually get CHOOSIER and CHOOSIER.”

    Hypergamy doesn’t have a reset. It’s that simple. Women don’t lower their standards for the exact same reason they have Alpha ghosts: they can’t go back. It’s also why you shouldn’t marry a nonvirgin, because you need to be the best of all the men she’s ever had or it’ll be a lifelong struggle for her to accept you.

    There’s also a rationalization aspect. She’s only losing value if she loses the ability to pull Alpha interest so she insists on Alpha to reassure herself she’s still pretty. Accepting Nerdboy Network Engineer is accepting she’s no longer a goddess of desire… and of course, she resents him for being the living proof of it.

  188. BradA says:

    If a man feels she is not

    The problem is that this then puts the feelings on the other side. Acting based on feelings is not the best approach in this case. Doing so makes marriage meaningless.

  189. Rocket says:

    @Latecomer and Gunner,

    Not sure I buy either of those explanations. Though I understand. Saving face is important … more important than ruining the rest of your life ? And Gunner … well aware of the Alpha Widow concept. That’s about her accepting a guy and comparing him to an ex-Alpha … and of course you cannot compete with a ghost. So you lose. But that means she she let someone in; which is a different thing. These women are not maintaining standards … THEY ARE INCREASING THEM so that nobody gets in. That’s a different thing. And would result in the following, at some point her standards have increased such that she wouldn’t even allow in … the Alpha that made her an Alpha Widow.

    And I’ve seen this dynamic enough to recognize it. When a girl is in her early/mid 20s as long the guy is Tall and dressed well, he can score. Or maybe has some game. Late 20s to early 30s add a bunch more things to the list. Early 30s to mid 30s, add more to the list. Late 30s to mid 40s. Add some more. Mid 40s and onwards the list of criteria a man has to meet has excluded 99.9% of men such at after 50 NOBODY QUALIFIES. There was an article here a few years ago about how women done with men after 55. I think its more like 50 and its true. By age 50 or so women have excluded every male on the planet from ever getting in.

    That whole dynamic of becoming choosier and choosier as they decline in value so seems so counter intuitive. If their value is going down, if they want a husband their standards should be going down to increase the pool of available candidates. If the criteria stays the same … their odds of finding someone go down. It the criteria goes up, it means their odds eventually become ZERO … which is pointless. Why even try if your criteria is such that it excludes everyone … and I think that is what it actually happens for a lot of older women: they give up even trying.

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/03/11/are-women-done-with-men-after-age-55/

  190. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Rocket, perhaps some women’s standards increase is partially because they’re running out of time, and partially because they’ve invested so much time already.

    * Running Out of Time. If I’m ever to get an Apex Alpha, it’s now or never.

    * Time investment. I’ve paid the price for an Apex Alpha — I’ve been through so much, so many bad men, so many disappointments — DAMMIT, after all my pain and suffering, I deserve to have all my needs met. I deserve the best. I’ve waited too long to settle for anything less.

    Of course, they haven’t had much pain and suffering, not like what they’ve inflicted on men. But in many women’s minds, if they’re unhappy, that’s an injustice of cosmic scale.

  191. Exfernal,

    @IBB You are not the first to ask that. Someone has to have the blame piled on them, and surely it’s not these women themselves nor those who gave them bad advice (‘the whispers’).

    I wasn’t asking anything. I was just stating a fact that the title had nothing at all to do with the article. All I see are 3 lonely women that want (what?, I don’t know? intimacy, money from men) and they aren’t getting that so they are alone. But they aren’t blaming anyone. The writer of the article might be blaming men but who cares?

  192. feeriker says:

    Again, this is a humongous myth, and has no basis in reality. There are many, many women who would love to have sex but can’t find a sexual partner. Yes, right here in the US and in all major cities of the world.
    And, no, these women are not hideous fatties or socially awkward slobs. Many of them are average looking or very attractive, and relatively young as well.

    Once again, they’re not getting laid because, like Gamma and Delta men, they’re aiming above their own SMV. Like I said upthread: some women would rather starve to death than accept anything other than exotic seven-star cuisine for their regular diet. If they would be realistic and eat sensibly, they’d never hunger again. This dead horse has truly been beaten to a bloody pulp.

    You also fail to consider the “toxic personality” factor here, and yes, it DOES make a difference to a man. Unless the man she’s targeting is a gigolo who is getting paid to “service” her, no man, no matter how thirsty he is, is going to suffer an attitudinous, bitchy, condescending, demanding, entitled, hate-filled cunt. Sure, men lacking all self-respect would, but she wouldn’t give them the time of day anyway. Every other man who would otherwise be worthy of her attention (but in whom she’s not even remotely interested) sees her as the incipient train wreck that she is and wants nothing to do with her. The Alphas she pines for, who are well north of her league and out of reach, all have better options and won’t even acknowledge her existence.

    Again, this is entirely a prison of these women’s own making.

  193. doclove says:

    @ Boxer
    I’m glad you mentioned prostitution especially with 20 dollar crack whores. Why does prostitution exist? It exists because the demand outstrips the supply. Why is prostitution of heterosexual men servicing heterosexual women almost not existent? It is because there is almost no demand for it. Why is prostitution of heterosexual women servicing heterosexual men is the oldest profession in the world and so high and persistent despite repeated attempts to eradicate it? the demand is high and the supply is low. The second highest contingent of prostitution is homosexual men servicing homosexual men in both number and per capita because the demand is greater than the supply. I suspect that the demand of prostitution per capita of prostitute homosexual women servicing homosexual women is 3rd highest but do not know. I know that heterosexual women being serviced by prostitute heterosexual men is much lower than prostitution servicing heterosexual and homosexual men in number and per capita. So no, not everyone can get sex whenever they want or otherwise prostitution would not exist. The closest human beings to be able to get sex whenever they want are heterosexual women. Women on average are by far more likely to demand men that are higher in the sexual market place than they have any right to expect than vice versa. .

  194. Dave says:

    @Latecomer Gunner & Rocket:

    What doesn’t make sense is as woman’s values GOES down, they actually get CHOOSIER and CHOOSIER. And they repeat the mantra “NEVER SETTLE”, “NEVER SETTLE”.

    Could it be possible that in absolute terms, the perceived quality of the men who approach her as she gets older actually diminishes? In other words, as she gets older, only older, less handsome, less wealthy, and otherwise less desirable men approach her. She then says to herself, “I have done better than this in the past; I therefore know I can do better. I will hold out for something better…”.
    Unknown to her however, that ship has already sailed, never to return in this life.

  195. Dave says:

    Why is prostitution of heterosexual men servicing heterosexual women almost not existent? It is because there is almost no demand for it.

    This says more about women’s parsimony, rather than their lack of desire for paid sex. Women generally enjoy goods and services paid for by others, but will balk at paying for them on their own, even if they had the money. Look at diamonds for instance. Most are bought by men; most are used by women.

  196. Boxer says:

    doclove:

    So no, not everyone can get sex whenever they want or otherwise prostitution would not exist.

    This sentence contradicts itself.

    Everyone can get sex whenever they want (within reason — they won’t get it the same second, but they can generally find an outlet the same day) through prostitution.

    Most men don’t go to street prostitutes because it is undignified. If they did, they’d have sex almost immediately, whenever they wanted it. Not going to a street prostitute is a choice. Even when sex is readily available (as it is, in every town of any size in North America) people choose to hold out for something more normal or healthier.

    By the same token, these women have options, but they aren’t options that any normal woman is going to take. Settling for sex with a drunken hobo down on the train tracks is too undignified. These women aren’t really complaining about a lack of options for male companionship. They’re complaining about all the wealthy men who aren’t settling for their used up cans and personal baggages. That’s the real issue.

    Regards,

    Boxer

  197. Just Saying says:

    @greyghost:Replace banging and f**king with commitment and marriage

    You know the funny thing is, I actually did most of what I have in life so that I could be someone “worthy of marriage” – yes, that was my thought process. It wasn’t till college, and grad-school when I was with a mother and her two daughters that I really learned about the “alpha-fucks/beta-bucks” thing – that was 30+ years ago. Since I was a poor grad-student, the mother bought most of my luxuries (newer car, suits, trips, etc.), and all of them took care of my needs. But the daughters were the ones that taught me it clearly, the younger was dating a resident doctor, and the other a lawyer (they married when he made partner) – both played the virgin to the guys, and would come to get what they needed from me and laugh about the guy who they sent home with “blue balls”, and they were with me because “you don’t judge me” – which was true – and “satisfy my physical needs”. But I learned a lot from them – both daughters acted the virgin up to their weddings while getting what they needed from me up till the night before.

    Now, don’t get me wrong – I was a VERY willing participant, but it showed me that I was aspiring to be the “beta-bucks” guy, i.e., “the chump”. Didn’t take long to see where that led, yet I still believed in playing by the rules, and when I graduated and found in the hard-sciences, white-males are in abundance and if you aren’t some protected-minority you’re screwed and not in a good way. That was when I started to learn how to game the system – just like I learned how to game women. I found that if you don’t want to be a chump, when it comes to business or women, you have to learn how to play the game on your terms – by subverting their rules. Now, I have several businesses – all “owned” by various minorities on paper – it’s all legal, it’s just that they own it, and I get the profits and pull the strings behind the scenes. They are paid a salary for the color of their skin, sex, or whatever else is of use to me – although when it comes to veterans, especially disabled ones, I make sure they get a sweet deal – as do their family. I’m not a nice man – but I have a code that I live by and my own type of honor.

    So if marriage and commitment are your thing – more power to you and good luck. Maybe you’ll get a “good” woman – personally, I found there is no way I can tell one from the other, so I paint them all with the same brush, but you know, the ones that come back after a show are strictly a one-night-stand – I figure the fact they are there says everything I need to know, but the women in my :”core” group – the ones I see weekly and long term (the longest is almost 4 years) I met under very different conditions – they took long term to get. This is the time of year when I do the things that yield me such women – and I may get 1 per year, the criteria is they have to be young, commit themselves to what we are doing (can’t give too much info as there are people that don’t like what I say), and be unattached. Yes, I have VERY different criteria for a woman in my “core” group, and one I’ll take to my room for a night. Different rules for different types of women…

    I could go into all of the things I learned, but it’s all out there. I just learned it the hard way – didn’t read about it, as much of it the media tries to hide. But you can’t hide reality. Although they try like the dickens to do so – calling a mentally unstable man, who mutilated himself a “woman”… That says it all.. Me – I am as God created me, for better or worse – probably worse at this point in the game, but such is life.

  198. BradA says:

    Just Saying,

    “What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul.”

    Enjoy while you can. This is the closest you will get to heaven ever. Hell is painful and forever.

    Funny you talk about being proper. You are as messed up as those in the example you give.

  199. BradA says:

    IBB,

    The blame is underlying. Someone must be responsible for the situation these women find themselves in and it certainly isn’t the women according to the article.

  200. Dave says:

    So if marriage and commitment are your thing – more power to you and good luck. Maybe you’ll get a “good” woman – personally, I found there is no way I can tell one from the other…

    One of the most encouraging and most perplexing rules of God is that it will always be to you according to your faith.
    If you believe that you cannot find a good woman to marry, you will not find one. If however, you believe you will find a good woman to make your spouse, you will find. Either way, you will always create your own reality. Such is the power that God has given us as humans. We have the power to create our material reality through the power of our minds. The more attuned to God our minds are, the better our realities will be. When God says to “renew” our minds, it was all meant to be to our benefits, because, for many of us, “His thoughts are as far away from our thoughts as heaven is from the earth (Jeremiah ).

    Yes, if indeed you are looking for a good woman, you will find! But unless you believe, you cannot be established.

  201. Hello world says:

    ‘When friends complain about their husbands pestering them for sex when they’re not in the mood……’ Only a woman can deliver such masterful stab in the back to her single ‘friend’.

  202. Exfernal says:

    Dave, if that is so, then I am the Emperor of the universe. Praise the hamster which creates your reality.🙂

  203. Art Deco says:

    The article is a sketch of three women vulgar enough to tell the Story of My Life to a reporter. As far as the reporter is concerned, no one has any agency. Marriages and ‘relationships’ ‘end’ or suffer ‘intolerable strain’. One of them it’s a reasonable wager is a mess. The other two may have made a run of bad decisions not realizing quite what they were failing at when they made them.

  204. Art Deco says:

    The blame is underlying. Someone must be responsible for the situation these women find themselves in and it certainly isn’t the women according to the article.

    I would tend to agree with IBB that it’s the gloss of the reporter. Not sure what these women actually think about whose to blame in their personal situations.

  205. Art Deco says:

    was a very visibly gay man

    You make him sound like Johnny Weir. He looks ordinary enough in that photograph.

  206. American says:

    Let’s go interview all the husbands these aging divorcees took into family court and divorced and see what they have say. How badly did THEY get burned. Why should I feel sorry for aging divorcees that left their husbands and milked them dry in family court? I certainly don’t want anything to do with them. Burn us once shame on you, burn us twice shame on us.

  207. BradA says:

    Exfernal,

    You don’t really believe that, so it is not so.

    While we can easily note exceptions to the rule, the idea that you can shape your own reality is quite accurate in many ways. We largely do get what we confess. It may not be exactly what we confess, but I guarantee you will not end up with a happy marriage if you think you can never have that.

    You will miss 100% of the shots you don’t take, as a poster of mine states.

  208. On the other hand there is a saying I’ve adopted:

    If at first you don’t succeed, skydiving may not be for you.

    If I never jump out of an airplane at 10k feet then having a 0% parachute success rate still allows me to maintain my 3-dimensionality. I never have to take a shot in order not to miss.

  209. Minesweeper says:

    @Hello world says:‘When friends complain about their husbands pestering them for sex when they’re not in the mood……’ Only a woman can deliver such masterful stab in the back to her single ‘friend’.

    Indeed! Good you pointed it out. And you are right, a masterful stroke in one upmanship, as D often says, women are masterful frenemies.

    Nice handle btw, a coder perhaps ?

  210. Minesweeper says:

    @Just Saying says: “You know the funny thing is, I actually did most of what I have in life so that I could be someone “worthy of marriage” – yes, that was my thought process. It wasn’t till college, and grad-school when I was with a mother and her two daughters that I really learned about the “alpha-fucks/beta-bucks” thing – that was 30+ years ago. Since I was a poor grad-student, the mother bought most of my luxuries (newer car, suits, trips, etc.), and all of them took care of my needs. But the daughters were the ones that taught me it clearly, the younger was dating a resident doctor, and the other a lawyer (they married when he made partner) – both played the virgin to the guys, and would come to get what they needed from me and laugh about the guy who they sent home with “blue balls”, and they were with me because “you don’t judge me” – which was true – and “satisfy my physical needs”. But I learned a lot from them – both daughters acted the virgin up to their weddings while getting what they needed from me up till the night before.

    So if marriage and commitment are your thing – more power to you and good luck. Maybe you’ll get a “good” woman – personally, I found there is no way I can tell one from the other, so I paint them all with the same brush, but you know, the ones that come back after a show are strictly a one-night-stand – I figure the fact they are there says everything I need to know, but the women in my :”core” group – the ones I see weekly and long term (the longest is almost 4 years) I met under very different conditions – they took long term to get. This is the time of year when I do the things that yield me such women – and I may get 1 per year, the criteria is they have to be young, commit themselves to what we are doing (can’t give too much info as there are people that don’t like what I say), and be unattached. Yes, I have VERY different criteria for a woman in my “core” group, and one I’ll take to my room for a night. Different rules for different types of women…

    I could go into all of the things I learned, but it’s all out there. I just learned it the hard way – didn’t read about it, as much of it the media tries to hide. But you can’t hide reality. Although they try like the dickens to do so – calling a mentally unstable man, who mutilated himself a “woman”… That says it all.. Me – I am as God created me, for better or worse – probably worse at this point in the game, but such is life.”

    God bless you “Just Saying” and fu*k all who curse you.

    Those who do you will tend to find their lives are are in the shitter already because of their mistaken beliefs, but they feel compelled to apply these to others. Its clear we are not living in a pristine environment. God knows, you know. You can still align together,

    Strangely, nothing seems more important to churchians than your sexual habits, you could e dying in the gutter = no problemzz, have a ONS = problemzz.

    its all fu*8ed up, and God knows this too. Keep telling your tales !

  211. Minesweeper says:

    @Art Deco says:”was a very visibly gay man
    You make him sound like Johnny Weir. He looks ordinary enough in that photograph.”

    Seriously, he looks like someone has just knocked a “BBC” out of his mouth in that photo. Your gaydar needs an upgrade and some more respect given to the author of the blog, not that he needs me to point that out. It’s a very rare thing for Dal to not perceive the situation correctly

    Don’t forget :

    Terry McMillan Confronts Her Gay Ex-Husband | Oprah’s Lifeclass | Oprah Winfrey Network

    Read and weep hommy.

  212. Art Deco says:

    Seriously, he looks like someone has just knocked a “BBC” out of his mouth in that photo. Your gaydar needs an upgrade

    I need no upgrades and you’re a poseur.

  213. Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
    (Heb 13:4)

    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
    (1Co 6:9-11)

  214. Minesweeper says:

    @Art Deco says:” Seriously, he looks like someone has just knocked a “BBC” out of his mouth in that photo. Your gaydar needs an upgrade. ”
    “I need no upgrades” – i think the evidence says otherwise.
    “and you’re a poseur.” – nicest thing anyone has said about me in a while🙂 thanks !

    Just to recap, you can’t spot a visibly gay man face to face, but a poseur from 10000 ft – no problem.

  215. Minesweeper says:

    @God is Laughing, read the greek of those verses, take the “real” pill. Were they posted to anyone in particular ?

  216. The Greek? You mean “pornos”? A simple reading arrives at the same conclusion as the Greek.

    Are you going to suggest next that the militantly homosexual is going to attain Kingdom life next (if I only read the Greek?)

  217. Minesweeper says:

    @God is Laughing, if your going to bring that up what does Lev 18:22 say in hebrew ?

  218. Minesweeper, I’m curious if you can tell me the difference between what you are doing and what the feminists are doing? Such as: “If you go to the GREEK, submit means something else entirely. Specifically, rule”. Leviticus 18:22 is as unambiguous as Exodus 20:14: “lo naw-af”

    Nice try.

  219. Minesweeper says:

    GiL – so who is committing adultery ? since your bringing up Ex 20:14

  220. As unambiguous as “Thou shall not steal”. Sin is sin.

  221. Art Deco says:

    Just to recap, you can’t spot a visibly gay man face to face, but a poseur from 10000 ft – no problem.

    I’m reading what you write, fraud.

  222. Minesweeper says:

    @AD, this is where I am now, when you are done with church, then God challenges you to read the scriptures without the translations\interpretations and church culture interfering with them. Call me what you like, your own judgement will fall upon you.

    If Jesus loved the prostitutes and players of the world, I will too. I live a monastic lifestyle for now, can’t even remember the last time I even touched a woman.

  223. Yeah, because the Geneva Bible (1560) was a font of feminist heresy….

  224. Minesweeper says:

    Glad you brought it up, I would go back even further to Wycliffe:
    Matthew 5:28 Wycliffe Bible (WYC)
    28 But I say to you, that every man that seeth a woman [for] to covet her., hath now done lechery by her in his heart [now he hath done lechery with her in his heart].

    Matthew 5:28New International Version – UK (NIVUK)
    28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

    Can you see the difference ? I’ve bolded it for you.

  225. Yes Minesweeper, I can see the difference. However, it is incumbent on you to explain how that difference substantially matters.

    Are you suggesting that Jesus was warning about coveting a woman’s sammich making ability, because I don’t see that in the text.

  226. Minesweeper says:

    Its not incumbent on me if you can read and comprehend. If you are a child who needs milk, then I can provide that. If you are an adult who needs food, then feed yourself.

    This is not an insult, one who is mature has to feed himself. If you have access to the original text in the original language and can’t discern the problems with translation even when Im bolding it to you, there is then nothing I could ever say that would help you.

    Its on you to learn or not. You level of wisdom is your responsibility.

  227. @ Minesweeper, as i stated I see the difference in the translations. I see the difference in the sentence structure and the connotations of the various words, even the ones in bold. What I don’t see is any substantial difference in how I respond to those two passages. I get the gist of both, to me they are the same. Sure someone might come away with two different positions if they had read each version independent of the other, but I think they would have to be significantly more ignorant than that.

    What is the teaching in there? Don’t lust after/covet/sexually fantasize about a woman who is not your wife. I really cannot guess at this point what you are driving at.

  228. Minesweeper says:

    GiL, what I’m trying to show you and failing is that there are issues in our translations. Some of our bible is translated from scripture, some from culture. It can be difficult to comprehend when you have been told and believed the same thing for decades or even possibly your whole life. This is not something that many can take or understand. It is a difficult path to follow.

    It needs the Lord to identify this and teach you direct. I really sought some answers to questions and this was his response, to me anyway. You’d be amazed at how some central tenets of christian church culture have been translated almost the opposite of what the original text says.

    We are very lucky we live in a time that the greek and hebrew are available online instantly or via packages installed locally.

  229. Well I’m amenable. I’m walking into the light from the darkness so I know that I have error at the core of my soul. I’m as willing as I can be to have the Holy Spirit guide me out of my folly. In this case I just don’t see it.

    Has the word been feminized? Sure. Our corporate interpretation too. I just don’t see what about that verse changes. Are we allowed to have harems? Is that what you are driving at?

  230. Minesweeper says:

    The difference in Mat 5:25 above is one says desire to possess, the other says sexual attraction in our english today, have you heard of anyone lusting after a car -no?

    The desire to possess is correct. Strange how a translation from before the KJV, is more accurate in places that one produced a few years ago.

  231. Minesweeper says:

    It can take a long time to reach this stage where you are seeking the absolute truth, decades in fact. Ecclesiastes says the more knowledge the more grief, absolutely true. I’ve always sought knowledge and wisdom. But it will cost you everything to discover. Its a high price to go down this road.

  232. Minesweeper says:

    *Mat5:28 I meant

  233. I’ve already spit out dispensationalism, a big chunk of Calvinism, Christian Zionism and Evangelical feminism. I’m already about as unwelcome as a turd in a punch bowl. I’ve already paid a pretty high price.

  234. Still sweeping the leaven out though.

  235. Minesweeper says:

    Haha ! Welcome to the party ! Once you start getting into what the original text says about certain things that are absolutely more important than anything, they won’t even let you in the door!🙂

    I wish you well on your journey. I use ISA2, they have just updated it to ISA3.

    God bless these guys for an awesome work.
    http://www.scripture4all.org/download/download_ISA3.php

  236. Minesweeper says:

    A good place to offend you is after downloading, check out your reference from above ”
    “Leviticus 18:22 is unambiguous”

    Prepare to be offended, you will see why they can’t translate this “as is” if they want anyone to not burn it.

  237. nick012000 says:

    >Ecclesiastes says the more knowledge the more grief, absolutely true. I’ve always sought knowledge and wisdom. But it will cost you everything to discover. Its a high price to go down this road.

    We call it “taking the Red Pill” for a reason, you know.😉

  238. Oscar says:

    @ Minesweeper and GiL

    You two realize that “covet” and “lust” can be synonymous, right?

    lust
    1. intense sexual desire or appetite.
    2. uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness.
    3. a passionate or overmastering desire or craving (usually followed by for):

    covet
    1. to desire wrongfully, inordinately, or without due regard for the rights of others:
    to covet another’s property.
    2. to wish for, especially eagerly:

    In fact, if you look up “covet” in the thesaurus, one synonym given is “to lust for”. It’s a stylistic difference, not a substantive one.

  239. Minesweeper says:

    nick012000 says:>”Ecclesiastes says the more knowledge the more grief, absolutely true. I’ve always sought knowledge and wisdom. But it will cost you everything to discover. Its a high price to go down this road.

    We call it “taking the Red Pill” for a reason, you know. ;)”
    Oh but this is a big one, way bigger than just female nature. But yes I know what you mean.

    Oscar, look back at your own answer. Quite a difference between words. But believe what you like. I have no ambitions that I need you to think otherwise.

  240. Oscar says:

    @ Minesweeper says:
    October 29, 2015 at 2:53 am

    “Quite a difference between words.”

    No. There isn’t. Lust is “uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness”, and to covet is “to desire wrongfully, inordinately, or without due regard for the rights of others”.

    The word “lust” makes it clear that the illicit or wrongful desire is sexual in nature, which is probably why the newer translations use the word “lust” as opposed to “covet”. Either way, they both denote an illicit or wrongful (more synonyms) desire.

  241. Minesweeper says:

    @Oscar says:”“Quite a difference between words.”

    No. There isn’t. Lust is “uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness”, and to covet is “to desire wrongfully, inordinately, or without due regard for the rights of others”.”

    Yes.

    Hmmm, what would you call sexual desire for your lawful spouse ?

    Covet begins with what you have quoted. King David, now thats a man who looked at a woman with covetousness and committed adultery in his heart. Even before he had her husband whacked in the front lines.

  242. Oscar says:

    @ Minesweeper says:
    October 29, 2015 at 3:58 am

    “Hmmm, what would you call sexual desire for your lawful spouse ?”

    I would call it sanctified. How did you miss the word “illicit” in the definition of “lust”? I even pointed it out for you.

    It’s impossible for a man to lust after his own wife because lust – by definition – is illicit. Sexual desire for ones own wife is sanctified.

    “King David, now thats a man who looked at a woman with covetousness and committed adultery in his heart.”

    Exactly. David lusted after Bathsheba. He felt an “uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite” for her.

  243. Minesweeper says:

    @Oscar, strange, I asked Google it said the below :
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=lust
    “noun 1.strong sexual desire.
    “he knew that his lust for her had returned”
    synonyms: sexual desire, sexual appetite, sexual longing, sexual passion, lustfulness, ardour, desire, passion; More
    verb 1. have strong sexual desire for someone.
    “he really lusted after me in those days”
    synonyms: desire, be consumed with desire for, find sexually attractive, find sexy, crave, covet, want, wish for, long for, yearn for, hunger for, thirst for, ache for, burn for, pant for; More”

    where are you reading your definition of lust from ? your own imagination or what you want it to be ? Nowhere does is say possess or covet.

  244. Cane Caldo says:

    @Minesweeper

    this is where I am now, when you are done with church, then God challenges you to read the scriptures without the translations\interpretations and church culture interfering with them.

    I’m not sure exactly how special you think you are, but I feel quite confident to say that you are not a 2,000-plus-years old native speaker of ancient Greek and Hebrew. Therefore whatever you think you know must only be by interpretation and translation.

    It gets worse. Your problem isn’t just knowing what is in the texts, but what is out of them. Those Scriptures were compiled by those idiots who stayed in the churches. That’s right: If it wasn’t for their interpretations and translations, you–left to your own interpretation and translation–would be sneering at us over a copy (which is translated and interpreted; as all copies are) of the Gospel of Thomas, and various other texts which you–in your vast isolation and therefore ignorance–could not challenge as unauthorized.

  245. Minesweeper says:

    @Cane Caldo says:”
    this is where I am now, when you are done with church, then God challenges you to read the scriptures without the translations\interpretations and church culture interfering with them.

    I’m not sure exactly how special you think you are, but I feel quite confident to say that you are not a 2,000-plus-years old native speaker of ancient Greek and Hebrew. Therefore whatever you think you know must only be by interpretation and translation.”

    Correct, and correct.

    “It gets worse. Your problem isn’t just knowing what is in the texts, but what is out of them. Those Scriptures were compiled by those idiots who stayed in the churches. That’s right: If it wasn’t for their interpretations and translations, you–left to your own interpretation and translation–would be sneering at us over a copy (which is translated and interpreted; as all copies are) of the Gospel of Thomas, and various other texts which you–in your vast isolation and therefore ignorance–could not challenge as unauthorized.”

    So why are you so bothered ? We agree the bible was put together, why does is trouble you so to look at the original words ? If it pains you so much, why even comment?

  246. Exfernal says:

    Could you provide a Venn diagram instead of policing the tone of opposition?

  247. Minesweeper says:

    is this sufficient ?

  248. Cane Caldo says:

    @Minesweeper

    Please stay on topic. You said that that God challenged you to read the Scriptures without interpretation/translation; contrasting that with how everyone else admits they read it. Now you are admitting that you also only read through translation and interpretation.

    The evidence here is that God did not, in fact, challenge you or anyone else to read the Scriptures without interpretation/ translation.

  249. Minesweeper says:

    @Cane Caldo says:”Please stay on topic. You said that that God challenged you to read the Scriptures without interpretation/translation;”

    Yes. And I stand by that.

    “contrasting that with how everyone else admits they read it. Now you are admitting that you also only read through translation and interpretation.”
    I have no idea what you mean.

    “The evidence here is that God did not, in fact, challenge you or anyone else to read the Scriptures without interpretation/ translation.”

    I have no idea what you are on about.

    He challenged me to go deeper to the original text through the translations and past their own interpretations to look at what the words meant directly, without interference of christian culture. And I was astonished by what I saw.

    Obviously this upsets you somehow. Try it yourself, the software\websites are available, free to all, I do not claim exclusivity on any of this. My first experience of church was charismatic as an adult, you were brought up catholic. I can see why what I would say regarding this would offend you and others.

    I don’t need to justify myself to you. I’m not even pushing a new radical theology viewpoint, Im just saying look at what it originally says and how different to what our church culture thinks it says. (maybe it is radical)

    If you are over 40yo then what Im saying will be difficult to stomach as your belief system is pretty much set in stone by then.

    Again, Im not presenting my own viewpoint, Im just saying look at the original words and sentences. Most is good, some is not.

  250. It’s not much different than the KJV only arguments, (which I use). I still don’t see the difference. There is more to the WORD than logos, there is rhema as well. If messing up God’s plan was as easy as corrupting a few texts (and God let him do it) Satan would have wiped out the Body of Christ long ago.

  251. BradA says:

    GiL,

    Civilization can continue without most skydiving. It cannot without at least a solid group of men and women marrying. Not a valid comparison, though it does illustrate the need to be quite cautious.

    Would your attitude have been appropriate on D-Day?

  252. BradA says:

    Minesweeper,

    God bless you “Just Saying” and fu*k all who curse you.

    The Bible has clear commands against blessing those who do evil.

    Though his story sounds more like a Penthouse letter than reality.

  253. I don’t think my attitude would have changed the results.

  254. Pedat Ebediyah says:

    While part of me thinks that Minesweepers sentiments could be classified as doubtful disputations, the other part just thinks they are plain silly.

    Illegitimate desire and incontinent desire, in the context of those two scriptures, is still sinful, which is why GIL’s assertion of “rhema” is proper.

    Brother man is tripping.

  255. Also BradA, I would suggest that when over 50% of the men hitting the beach are dying, and a large percentage of what is left is being crippled (by feminism in the Church), that we don’t have a “solid group of men and women marrying” anyway. It isn’t our job to save society, it’s our job to take up our crosses and follow Jesus. If He want’s society saved then by following Him we may be instrumental in accomplishing that. I’m not going to presume what is and isn’t worthy of being saved if I can help it (although I do often have opinions).

  256. Oscar says:

    @ Minesweeper says:
    October 29, 2015 at 4:25 am

    “where are you reading your definition of lust from ? your own imagination or what you want it to be ? Nowhere does is say possess or covet.”

    Nowhere? Really? Are you absolutely sure about that?

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lust

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/covet?s=t

    http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/covet?s=t

    You’re not even trying, are you?

  257. Cane Caldo says:

    @Minesweeper

    I wasn’t brought up catholic [sic], and your erred assumption on that topic is a pretty good example of your overall problem.

  258. jeff says:

    Shooting a guy who breaks into you house would be legally justified. Shooting a guy going into your neighbors house would be unjustified.

    Minesweeper,

    Two exact things can be different when all things are considered. A strong sexual desire for your wife would be righteous after being gone for 6 months. Coming home after 6 mo and having strong sexual desires for your neighbors wife is lust. Covetesness would be scheming in your mind how you could obtain that sex from your neighbors wife. Lusting after your neighbors wife is the first step in coveting your neigbors wife.

  259. Exfernal says:

    My comment was directed at both sides of the dispute. The problem with ‘lusting after’ and ‘coveting’ is that the terms overlap incompletely. Change from one to the other changes the message. Not all lust is coveting and not all coveting is lust.

  260. greyghost says:

    The lusting and coveting thing is the silly hair splitting thoughtful Christian men do while churchians take over and define Christianity for all.

  261. BradA says:

    I would disagree GiL.

    We do owe it to do our part to save civilization, though not necessarily what we have now. Paul tells us to support those in authority for a reason. I believe this is often misconstrued, but it is there and we should not completely negate it.

    Though nothing is making you or anyone else participate in that. I am too old and didn’t get to have a legacy, so all I can do now is support those who want to do so in any appropriate way I can.

  262. BradA says:

    Exactly how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

  263. BradA says:

    Minesweeper,

    Huh? Though see my previous comment as well as those arguing lust vs covering.

  264. Minesweeper says:

    BradA
    The reason I attempt occasionally (and generally get a beat down for it) to bring this type of thing up, is not this 1 issue.

    Its the whole damm thing is screwed to hell and highwater.

    What does the church love ? : Sunday morning nightclub\festival, millionaire pastors, mega churches, mind numbing sermons (that no one will remember once they set foot out the door), female led divorce+child snatching, single moms, obedience to the CEO pastor, tithes and offerings to fund said required huge house+jet while the congregation is generally struggling. Constant appeals for more and more money to fund ministries. Men in leadership. Women in leadership. Women generally. Bible translations that fit the christian culture.

    What does the church hate ? : porn, jerkin off, men doing anything not approved by women, men not in leadership. sexual desires.

    What doesn’t the church care at all about ? : other churches, other christians, ill christians, unemployed christians, divorce, abortion(WTF!), loving other churches or chrsitans.

    I stopped telling people I was a christian for a while after the divorce, and it was startling to see how people judge the church and quite rightly. I wouldn’t even know where to begin to try to sort it.

    Jesus said “You will know them by their love”, how many churches can you say that about ? It focuses on all the wrong things.

    It doesn’t really matter what the bible says even in plain english, they just wont do what it says, practically ever. The whole thing runs on its own platform. WIth its own beliefs. If you look up the model of gathering, living, loving and supporting one another, in the bible, its the opposite to what you see. The strong focus on the wrong thing continually, means they will never focus on the right thing.

  265. BradA says:

    I have known plenty of confusion and even sin in churches, but I was there as well. I have a bit more compassion on them than you do. I don’t set myself up as someone who is prefect.

    Sure, I will argue the Scriptures with an extreme passion and I am disgusted by many things today, but I trust the Lord of the Church far more than you do.

    I also don’t tell stories praising my past sinfulness. It would be mild by the standard of most here, but my righteousness is filthy menstrual rags just as much as Paul’s was.

    You could bear learning the same things it seems. Though stay in your self righteousness all you want. I prefer to rely on His righteousness.

  266. Minesweeper says:

    BradA, Im beyond far from perfect, prob the least by far here.

    God bless you Brad and thank you.

  267. BradA says:

    Then might it be possible that you are vulnerable to the same things you rail so much against MS?

    I am clearly so imperfect I could not even spell perfect right for that matter….

  268. Minesweeper says:

    How do you mean ? I doubt you are as imperfect as I am, I hope not. I’ve been seriously ill for the last 5 years.Wouldnt wish this on my worst enemy. But I will recover soon. I hope.

  269. Oscar says:

    @ Minesweeper says:
    October 29, 2015 at 6:48 pm

    “The reason I attempt occasionally (and generally get a beat down for it) to bring this type of thing up, is not this 1 issue.”

    No one is beating you up. Some of us did point out some errors in your thinking. For example, you claimed that lust is mere “sexual attraction” (October 29, 2015 at 12:43 am). You even claimed that lust is no different than “sexual desire for your lawful spouse” (October 29, 2015 at 3:58 am).

    You’re wrong. Dead wrong. Dangerously wrong.

    Lust is “sinful desire” (Eaton’s Bible Dictionary).

    1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

    Sexual desire for ones own wife is not sinful. It’s the opposite of sinful. It’s holy, and not only sanctioned, but encouraged by Scripture.

    Proverbs 5:18 May your fountain be blessed,
    and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.
    19 A loving doe, a graceful deer—
    may her breasts satisfy you always,
    may you ever be intoxicated with her love.

    You conflated the sin of lust with righteous sexual desire in marriage, and thereby you either excused sin or condemned the sacred.

    If you wish to point out errors in the Church, then by all means, please do so. But, if in the process of pointing out an error in the Church, you commit a flagrant error like conflating the sin of lust with righteous sexual desire in marriage, don’t be shocked when others point your error out to you.

  270. Cane Caldo says:

    @Minesweeper

    When you read the copies of the source texts in Hebrew you came to the conclusion that the best word to use was for “illicit sexual desire” was “covet” while many translations used the word “lust”. Then it seems you came to the conclusion that the “lust” translators were saying something different than what was intended; rather than concluding that they meant “lust” not as mere sexual desire, but as “illicit sexual desire”. You found fault with them based on your misunderstanding.

    Likewise, you wrongly assumed that I was raised “catholic”. I am sure you meant catholic as in Roman Catholic, but catholic and Roman Catholic are not the same things. To be Roman Catholic means to be in communion with the catholic church in Rome. To be catholic (with a small c and without Roman) means to be in agreement with the universal Church body or teachings. One can be both charismatic and catholic, and (to muddle things even a bit more) there are even charismatic congregations of Roman Catholics.

    But I didn’t call you a liar trying to hide the truth nor did I infer you were an idiot (as you have done to other translators) because you double-wrongly called me a catholic instead of single-wrongly calling me a Roman Catholic. Instead I figured out what you meant to say by the context of your whole statement. I interpreted you.

  271. craig says:

    “To be catholic (with a small c and without Roman) means to be in agreement with the universal Church body of teachings.”

    Once I would have agreed with you about supposedly-universal teachings, but now I doubt it’s possible to make a list without choosing in advance whose doctrines are “in” and whose are “out”. In reality, it’s only a “No True Scotsman” argument.

  272. BradA says:

    craig,

    So which teachings have you decided are core? Cane correctly defined the term “catholic”. Just because you have your own quibbles on what is important is irrelevant.

  273. OKRickety says:

    Re. lust vs. covet, catholic vs. Catholic, etc.

    I am convinced that words matter greatly. Unfortunately, we are human so none of us have perfect understanding of God’s Word (or likely even of our own thinking). Stating our understanding and the supporting reasoning is useful, but lengthy argument, whether here or elsewhere, about word definitions,etc. is unlikely to be fruitful. State your understanding and reasoning, listen to theirs, and let the Holy Spirit convict.

    Understanding the Bible correctly is often difficult. I believe translations are the best attempt of the scholars to convey the meaning of the original text, but the results do not always clearly and correctly convey that meaning. When confusion or argument arises, I recommend looking at the original text and any related thoughtful discussions of it. Ask for wisdom, and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you to understanding.

    As an example (and I do not desire that this start any further discussion on it), consider the argument and discussion on the translation and meaning of the Greek word porneia in Matthew 5:32. The word is translated as fornication, sexual immorality, unfaithfulness, unchastity, whoredom, lewdness, etc. Not surprisingly, these different English translations lead to many differences in opinion. It is worthwhile to spend time to study and discuss this to reach your own understanding. After that, it is not beneficial to debate others continually.

    Outside of Bible translations, words also matter. For example, I understand what “catholic” means. However, here in flyover country USA, “catholic” is almost always a reference to Roman Catholic. Consequently, I choose to use “Roman Catholic” so there is no doubt of my intent, and I choose to never use “catholic” because most people will misunderstand my meaning. (Note: In verbal usage, it is impossible to tell if the word is “catholic” or “Catholic”, so it is even easier to misunderstand.)

    I would like to see the discussion in the comments on this forum to be rational and beneficial as would be expected from men of good character. I doubt I am alone.

  274. Minesweeper says:

    Oh my OKRickety, a truthful discussion of Matv5:32 will leading to a stoning in these parts! But many good points you have brought up, which leads to discussing Mat v5:31

    Cane,
    Mat v5:31+Mat v5:28 both use the same word gunaika, but our translations this is :
    Mat v5:31=wife
    Mat v5:28=woman

    Having woman instead of wive distinctly changes the meaning of Mat v5:28, now in Mat v5:31 it can’t mean anything other than wife unless you can divorce a random woman. They have changed Mat v5:28 from coveting someones wife to having sexual desires\thoughts about any female. Note the verse ONLY addresses looking at women\wives (depending on the translation), nothing about looking at males.

    The use of the word catholic generally refers to the RCC, I cant ever remember hearing anyone belonging to a church outside of that saying they belonged to the catholic church alone.

  275. Minesweeper says:

    @Oscar, you seem to be jumping through hoops to prove your viewpoint. So before you were married, what would you call the sexual desire you felt towards your girlfriend then fiance ?

    Would that desire be sin ? The desire is only sanctified upon the signing of a lawful marriage license?

    Can you covet your own wife?

  276. craig says:

    BradA, Cane gave the correct dictionary definition: catholic=universal. The point I was making is that there will always be some beliefs that are beyond the pale, or else you have no doctrine at all, only “Rodney King” sentimentalism pretending to be theology. That sentimentalism logically implies that no specific beliefs really matter in the long run.

    Arians all professed themselves Christians, and some of them were persecuted for it. Should we then say that the doctrine that Jesus is God (and not merely “like” God) is therefore not “core”? Because it is not universally shared among Christians unless you first exclude the Arians from the set.

    The problem with the idea of there being a “small-c” catholic belief set, a.k.a. “mere Christianity” (I applaud Lewis’ intentions but he was logically incoherent on the point), is that it ultimately means the beliefs which reside within whatever invisible boundaries the speaker has assumed. That’s why I equated it with “No True Scotsman”.

  277. Oscar says:

    @ Minesweeper says:
    October 30, 2015 at 11:08 am

    “you seem to be jumping through hoops to prove your viewpoint.”

    Let me get this straight… you consider referring to the dictionary, Bible dictionary and the thesaurus to determine the accepted meaning of two words “jumping through hoops”? How else does one determine the accepted meaning of words if not by referring to the dictionary and thesaurus?

    Do you continue to insist – despite all evidence to the contrary – that all sexual desire is lust?

  278. Minesweeper says:

    @Oscar, from your own link above : http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lust
    lust noun 1. intense sexual desire or appetite.

    I’m absolutely baffled by your response. Tell you what, you tell me, how a young single man can proceed to marriage without “looking at a women with lust”. Then at what stage could that condition occur?

  279. Oscar says:

    @ Minesweeper

    I just realized that I failed to answer your question. So, to answer your question: hell yes, I lusted for my wife before we married! If not for the seven months I spent at the Officers’ Basic Course and the Sapper Leaders’ Course while she finished school, ours would’ve been a shotgun wedding.

  280. Oscar says:

    @ Minesweeper says:
    October 30, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    “I’m absolutely baffled by your response.”

    That’s probably because you stopped reading too son.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lust

    Lust: noun 2. uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness.

    Which agrees with Eaton’s Bible Dictionary: “sinful desire”

  281. Minesweeper says:

    @Oscar, thanks for getting back to me. So how about the below question ?

    “Tell you what, you tell me, how a young single man can proceed to marriage without “looking at a women with lust”. Then at what stage could that condition occur?”

  282. Oscar says:

    @ Minesweeper says:
    October 30, 2015 at 8:11 pm

    “So how about the below question ?”

    Sure. As soon as you answer the above question: Do you continue to insist – despite all evidence to the contrary – that all sexual desire is lust?

  283. Minesweeper says:

    @Oscar, I don’t think I ever have, Ive never thought that. Unless I mistyped somewhere.
    I would equate it as : lust : strong sexual desire.

  284. BradA says:

    @craig,

    I am not sure I follow your point then.

    I am just very cautious trying to use human wisdom to try to limit who is and who is not truly a Christian.

  285. Oscar says:

    @ Minesweeper says:
    October 30, 2015 at 8:35 pm

    “I would equate it as : lust : strong sexual desire.”

    Is it your contention that all strong sexual desire is lust, including strong sexual desire between a man and wife?

  286. Minesweeper says:

    @Oscar, I’ve already answered your question regarding the english translations. I’m more after going after what the original text says anyway. Have whatever olympic gymnastic translations you require to fit your already established viewpoint. Which is the standard view anyway. If you can’t see it, then you can’t see it and we will leave it there.

  287. Oscar says:

    @ Minesweeper says:
    November 3, 2015 at 2:41 am

    So, is that a “yes”, or a “no”? Do you believe that “strong sexual desire” between a husband and wife is lust, or don’t you?

    As for “olympic gymnastic translations”, I provided you with the standard Dictionary definition:

    Lust: noun
    1. intense sexual desire or appetite.
    2. uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness.

    … synonyms listed int he standard thesaurus, the Eaton’s Bible Dictionary definition (sinful desire), and multiple Bible verses that list lust as a sin.

    If referencing the English dictionary, Eaton’s Bible Dictionary and the Bible itself = “olympic gymnastic translations”, then (as I’ve already asked and you refused to answer) what exactly is a valid source of definitions? Why is your personal definition of lust correct, and that of the sources I provided incorrect?

    “If you can’t see it, then you can’t see it”

    I can’t see answers you refuse to provide, or sources you refuse to provide.

  288. Minesweeper says:

    @Oscar, I standby what I said. It’s now dictionary gymnastics !

    Look at the verse, mat 5:28, it mentions clearly ONE sex, lusting after ONE sex.

    Man:Lusting:Woman = Adultery of the heart

    Do you really think Jesus gave all the other combos a pass ? So :
    Man:Lusting:Man = Not mentioned
    Man:Lusting:Furries = Not mentioned
    Man:Lusting:Underage = Not mentioned
    Women:Lusting:ANYTHING = Not mentioned at all.

    So essentially, it only applies to straight adult males. Anything outside of that, not mentioned.

    I bet the gay community is pleased. As are all women.

    This is only a problem, because its almost the number 1 issue in church.

    Rather 10000 women commit frivorce.
    Rather 1000 women have an abortion.
    Than 1 man has a sexual desire about an adult female he isn’t married too.

    Because then all will be lost. You ever heard thr church berating women for having lustful thoughts ? Me neither.

    When I still attended church the order of preaching went as follows :
    exegesis of random passage in the NT or OT.
    tithing and offerings
    male (and only male) lustful thoughts

    rince and repeat.

  289. Minesweeper says:

    *the order of preaching was obviously done on different weeks, that isnt clear above.

  290. Eric says:

    Here is a “Dear Abby” letter that seems to touch upon similar territory.

    http://news.yahoo.com/womans-male-roommate-wants-friends-no-benefits-050905405.html

  291. Pingback: A Hopeful Sign? | Alpha Is Assumed

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