Hold her beer and watch this.

Laura Lifshitz is back, asking Do the Men Move on First Before the Women, After Divorce?

Every time I have told someone about the divorce, all I hear is, “He will move on before you. The men always do.” Or, “Oh the men need someone so he’ll marry again before you do.” Or, “Well you know…men get over these things quickly. The women stay alone.”

I felt rattled by these words because based on every stranger, coworker and friend, women suffer through loneliness and men find happiness instantaneously. It was the fiftieth time in my life that I wished for a penis.

The answer to her question is it depends on the age of the couple.  If the couple is young (say in their mid 20s), it is the ex-wife who almost certainly will find herself with a wealth of dating prospects.  It is only later in life, as the SMV fortunes of men and women change, that men find it easier than women.  It only seems like men always have it easier because most women now delay marriage so long that by the time they get around to step 5 in the having it all plan the SMV power positions have reversed.

However, I’m not sure it will cheer Lifshitz up knowing that it would have gone much better for her if she had divorced in her 20s instead of her late 30s.  At any rate, she has moved from writing about all of the pain her divorce has caused her young daughter to writing about her own pain now that her ex husband has a new girlfriend:

The words. When I knew, I felt as if someone had put a shotgun to my gut. That night I cried for most of the night. In fact, I am pretty sure I have just been random waterworks as if I were a pregnant lady ever since. If you aren’t sure if it’s me, see if the woman is crying. If yes, chances are it’s me.

Lifshitz rationalizes that men fare better in the post divorce dating market because women care more about the children, while men prioritize dating over obligations to family:

“Oh the women always have a tough time. It’s so hard. They focus on the kids. Men don’t want women with kids. Women don’t mind a man with kids.”

So basically, it sucks to be a woman and have a vagina, yet again.

But this is exactly the opposite of what is really happening.  We can see this by the relationship between the age of the wife and the risk of divorce.  When wives perceive their chances in the dating world and of remarriage are best, divorce rates are at their highest.  As the couple ages and the wife’s options outside the marriage dwindle, the risk of divorce steadily decreases.  Put another way, the lower mommy’s opportunity to bang other men, the less risk a child has of having their family blown up.

women_divorce_and_remarriag_same_scaleNote the lack of an increase in divorce later in life as the relative SMV prospects of the husband increase.  As the AARP survey found, even later in life when the man’s remarriage prospects are better, divorce continues to be driven by women.

This entry was posted in Divorce, Grey Divorce, Hold my beer and watch this, Laura Lifshitz, Post Marital Spinsterhood. Bookmark the permalink.

115 Responses to Hold her beer and watch this.

  1. anecdotes != data. With that said, the handful of divorced 20-something women I know jumped back on the carousel like their lives depended on it. The one exception was the online cheater who packed on 100 pounds during the course of her 8 year marriage; no one wanted to touch that in real life.

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  3. john03063 says:

    Let’s not forget the financial incentive too. Most divorce decrees (that include an alimony component from husband to wife) state that the alimony obligation is terminated if the woman remarries. So if she marries, the gravy train ends. Much better to live in sin with her new lover. I wonder how often that figures into a woman’s decision to not remarry ?

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  5. Bluntobj says:

    I first wrote a bit of a gloating reply, but then I realized it was pointless.

    LL is simply another (admittedly anecdotal) piece of evidence that women cannot plan rationally, nor extrapolate the consequences of their actions in the long term. Be aware and remember: AWALT

  6. honeycomb says:

    Just another example of “how the hamster’rational’lies’hive’mind turns”.

    Love the facts .. which are wasted on ‘th (hamisterized) wimminz’ .. I only wished it mattered. The very people / institutions / entities / etc. that caused our current problems are in charge of the fix.

    I’m sure they’ll get it right .. this time.

  7. Anonymous Reader says:

    The words. When I knew, I felt as if someone had put a shotgun to my gut. That night I cried for most of the night.

    So, dear Lisa, you (a) had a husband but (b) decided you did not want him anymore and now (c) other women do want him? Whose fault is this, again? Great display of a version of preselection that ought to be called “post selection” (if Rollo or Heartiste or someone else hasn’t already thought of that.

    Reminds me of a divorce I saw from a moderate distance a few years ago. Wife got a couple of promotions at her work, while her salesman husband just plodded along with the usual feast or famine of that business. She apparently got “married” to her job, putting in long hours serving the situational alpha men she worked for. Then at home made up for the long hours by showering attention on the kids while stiffarming whats-his-name. When he had an affair she was, by all accounts, surprised. When he had a second affair she divorced him. Both were churchgoing, and I agree that she had Bible-based grounds for divorce, there was no question he was cheating. But he wasn’t the roving-eye type for the first 5 to 10 years of marriage, so perhaps a certain lack of something tempted him to cheat? What could it have been?

    Question 1: Guess who remarried, and guess who is all alone now that the kids have graduated high school? No peeking at other people’s answers.

    Question 2: And guess who just can’t figure out how all that happened, or why she can’t seem to remarry at the age of 40+? (HINT for question 2: “All the women who talk about it”)

    Feminists, proving TFH’s claim about woman vs. cause-and-effect on a daily basis.

  8. l jess says:

    The chart parameters are pretty damning – redline is number of divorces per thousand — Blue line is number of remarriages of “divorced and/or widowed” – starts out at 120 remarriages per thousand divorces – invest in cat food companies because 880 of one thousand are not making it out of cat territory

  9. greyghost says:

    Anonymous Reader
    One of the things a kind loving Christian husband can do to keep his harpy of a wife interested in her family is to remind her of who she is. I remember speaking to Mrs Greyghost when she was feeling insecure about her appearance. “you’re 38 years old with 3 kids nobody is looking at you. moms single or not are for booty calls.” ” with women the sluts they are now days I wouldn’t date you.”
    Now if Life’s shit old man had have been a loving red pill Christian and gave his loving wife some of that Christian tenderness she wouldn’t be crying her self to sleep with a shotgun.
    Good behavior is good behavior. There is no romance for a red pill man. And red pill feels so much more good than any blue pill love I have ever felt. Stay hard and save your worthless wife from being a cat lady with a stupid slut for a daughter or mangina sap for a son.

  10. feeriker says:

    The words. When I knew, I felt as if someone had put a shotgun to my gut. That night I cried for most of the night. In fact, I am pretty sure I have just been random waterworks as if I were a pregnant lady ever since. If you aren’t sure if it’s me, see if the woman is crying. If yes, chances are it’s me.

    Oh, cry me a f***ing river. Once again: let’s flip the sexes on this and see how many people of either sex would feel anything other than “serves you right!” (Or, to put it more simply, if more graphically: imagine deliberately pissing and shitting in the reservoir that is your only source of fresh water and then wailing and gnashing your teeth to the world that you’ve been victimized by disease.)

  11. feeriker says:

    ” with women the sluts they are now days I wouldn’t date you.”

    That line will either jolt wifey out of her self-pity party and back into the real world, or it will cause her to jam a carving knife into your chest before she slits both of her wrists.

  12. Pedat Ebediyah says:

    “That line will either jolt wifey out of her self-pity party and back into the real world, or it will cause her to jam a carving knife into your chest before she slits both of her wrists”

    I was thinking the same thing when I read that. I’m like “damn, this brother is trying to get shanked by his ole lady!”

    Mrs Greyghost: “oh..so I’m a slut now???” as she proceeds to go Jodi Arias on his ass… LOL.

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  14. Spike says:

    What, exactly, does Ms Lifshitz expect? that her husband will stay stranded because she was “the best thing” that ever happened to him, or something?
    Lifshitz has not understood intra-sexual competition: Other women who want security will readily accept a man with a job, a plan, even children – because he has a track record of commitment. Other men, meanwhile, will not accept a women who has divorced her husband and is encumbered with another man’s children, because she doesn’t have a record of commitment. She probably divorced thinking men were going to beat a path to her door and her solipsism has blinded her to the fact that her husband whom she despised, was actually the best thing to happen to HER.
    A Manosphere truth that is validated here is that the Red Pill is a far better and more accurate predictor of women’s behaviour than feminism ever is.

  15. greyghost says:

    “I wouldn’t date you” Use your red pill head fellas. She is a 38 year old wife with 3 kids In a world of young sluts. I’m the guy that works everyday signs a mortgage to a house and cosigns her new car. This man would never commit to even a date with a single 38 year old with 3 kids. Why would a man do that with such easier pussy out there. That is the way she will see it. It is about understanding the wicked selfish frame women see the world.
    The truth is I would not date a single mom (38) with 3 kids. What is she going to do then, get her knife and cut me with it. She lives good as a wife and knows it. Most of the dumb stuff women do as wives are shit test. Sometimes you have to remind them the dreadful way.

    That line will either jolt wifey out of her self-pity party and back into the real world, or it will cause her to jam a carving knife into your chest before she slits both of her wrists.

    She doesn’t think like that. Don’t let this get but one evening a a couple years ago I wrestled my wife down and while scratching her head I asked her, “do you still think I got it? Do think if I went out to a club I could still pull ass?” (I haven’t been out in 15-16 years) I never got a solid answer but she decided that was a good night to fuck her husband. Lately because of my job promotion I have been lifting and she is slowly becoming more girl friend like. Buy her a house nope, uy her a car nope, put her through college nope, give her the chance to be a stay at home mom nope, be faithful and loyal to her nope. be a threat for other women to come fuck you, gina tingle. No such thing as a Christian women only a bitch married to a Christian man. Stay hard fellas
    Lifeshit’s husband would be still living with his daughter with some loving words of dread. She just said in an article that Dalrock is posting about that it would have made her loving and faithful

  16. Centurion says:

    After one expensive run at marriage there’s lotsa guys won’t have anything to do with it again. G/fs? Sure, allatime but none of that marriage “for-fucking-ever” stuff again.

  17. Tom C says:

    I remain skeptical of her claim that women are more likely to date someone with kids than men are, particularly if the woman has no kids of her own.

  18. Spaceman Spiffed says:

    @john03063 – Yes indeed, Alimony plays a big part in it.

    My last Alimony payment ($2200/mo) was on Dec 15th. My SAHM ex (who went on very loudly the whole time how “she’ll never get tied down again”) remarried Dec 31, same year.

    I can’t wait to see her reaction when the Kids turn 18 in a few years and the $2k/month child support comes to a halt.

  19. Colonel Trautman says:

    “…and men find happiness instantaneously.”

    HA HA HA.

  20. Colonel Trautman says:

    @Tom C,

    I’m skeptical too. The image of a ‘step-mom’ in our culture is either the step mom of adult children (by swooping in on a divorced, pensioned, sixty-plus man who is cobalt blue pill) or the rare ‘hot step mom trophy wife’ who is well within the fuckable age range of the teenage son. I guess that second scenario is mostly in the movies anyway. The image of a decent SMV 35 year old woman marrying some dude with a 6 year old and 4 year old just won’t come into my head. A lot of the reason is that he doesn’t have custody, but other than that, I don’t see a semi-hot 35 year old making breakfast for a six year old boy that isn’t hers. Not happening. Example no. 1589 of women having a bad trait (selfish about remarriage conditions) and projecting it directly onto men.

  21. Bathing in your tears over here. Could not express it any better:

    >I hate online dating and let’s face it: as a single mom in her late thirties with all married friends and who works all the time, when am I going to meet anyone else otherwise? And the few men I have lightly interacted with were not people that were on my same playing field. All in all, it’s been a barren period.

    Enjoy your cats. Are we sure this woman is for real and she is not trolling all of us? She could be a fellow neckbearded fellow having a ball at the keyboard. This story is seriously just to perfect.

  22. JDG says:

    There is no romance for a red pill man.

    Sometimes I think that romance is poison to a marriage.

  23. I think we should just focus on the fact that she’s pretty much admitted all of her problems with men stem from literal penis envy.

  24. JDG says:

    malcolmthecynic says:
    August 10, 2015 at 9:15 pm

    She was pretty clear about it.

  25. KMan says:

    Every time I have told someone about the divorce, all I hear is, “He will move on before you. The men always do.”

    Actually, there is strong evidence that men take separation harder than women. If some men find new partners more quickly, perhaps it’s not just because they have an SMV advantage, but because the (emotional) cost of not moving on is greater than for their ex-wives.

    Below is some examples of research on mental health for men and women following divorce: Emphasis is mine.

    2003 Kposowa – Divorce and suicide risk

    Divorced men were over eight times more likely to commit suicide than divorced women (RR=8.36, 95% CI = 4.24 to 16.38). After taking into account other factors that have been reported to contribute to suicide, divorced men still experienced much increased risks of suicide than divorced women. They were nearly 9.7 times more likely to kill themselves than comparable divorced women (RR=9.68, 95% CI=4.87 to 19.22). Put another way, for every divorced woman that committed suicide, over nine divorced men killed themselves.

    1992 Bruce and Kim – Differences in the effects of divorce on major depression in men and women

    Among respondents without a history of depression or mania, marital dissolution was associated with a higher risk of first-onset major depression for men but not for women.

    1982 Chiriboga – Adaption to Marital Separation in Later and Earlier Life

    The men were significantly less happy than the women [following separation]; 31% of the men and only 16% of the women reported themselves to be “not too happy.” To put these results in perspective, national surveys using the same question generally find a range of from 8 to 15% reporting unhappiness and no sex differences (Bradburn, 1969; Gurin et al., 1960). The only other difference among the morale variables was that women reported more of the agitated emotions (i.e., feeling angry, unable to get going, too much to do, and uneasy) that make up the tension total. In other words, although recently separated men may experience a lower sense of overall well-being, the women experience greater emotional turmoil.

    In other words, women become emotionally unproductive after divorce (hence the commonly seen weight gain and somewhat unhinged nature). Men experience stronger negative feelings after separation in addition to higher mortality rates, but my guess is they usually have to keep working (or work harder) so they don’t have the option of just sitting around at home waiting for neuroses to develop. LL seems to be experiencing these neuroses at the moment, while she is probably blind to any pain felt by her ex-husband and is just angry that he would want to seek out a new partner in that situation.

  26. Spaceman Spiffed says:

    @TFH – I’m good for now. The state is TX and the decree says finish High school or 18, but I’m sure she’ll find a way to drag it out to the latter. Alimony lasted only 2 1/2 years despite 16 year marriage (back then the max was 3 years, now its 5) No presumption of superior rights in TX.. i.e. no forcing me to pay for college like they can do in MA, etc

  27. GeminiXcX says:

    The fear is gripping. As I lose the one person I could rely on even though we fought and didn’t see eye-to-eye, I wonder what is next in my life. Who will be my emergency contact? Who will hug me when I’m having a bad day?

    Translation:
    “He was there for me and I kept taking advantage of that. I kept starting fights with him, because I’m a ‘strong and independent woman with my own life, friends, job, and hobbies.”

    The bullshit of her pathetic rant, is that it’s all about her. “Who will”x2. “The fear. . . I wonder. . . my life”

    The thing is, if they got back together somehow, she’d repeat her behavior.

    -GXcX

  28. GeminiXcX says:

    And the few men I have lightly interacted with were not people that were on my same playing field.

    There it is; the kind of sentence I was looking for. She feels entitled to “Alpha” fux, while lamenting the loss of her husband’s “Beta” provider-qualities (includind, by her own admission, emotional support and reliability.)

    This woman needs to be publicly flogged.

    -GXcX

  29. feeriker says:

    And the few men I have lightly interacted with were not people that were on my same playing field.

    Hamsterlation: “None of the selfish bastards wanted a neurotic, gold-digging yenta with a kid. Losers!”

  30. Classic misdirect on the part of Lifshitz.

    She conflates remarriage with “getting over the relationship”. On a limbic level women (and Blue Pill conditioned Beta men) instinctively default to the presumption that Hypergamy (in this case the long term side of it) is a mutually understood, mutually accepted context held between the sexes.

    http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/03/war-brides/

    Dal’s right in the respect that women have a biological imperative to restart the Hypergamic process FAR more rapidly than men when they’re younger and closer to their SMV peak. They have more time to capitalize on it. Once they are on the opposite side of the Wall and men are ascending to their own SMV peak, “getting over” the relationship is equated with remarriage because men have the SMV advantage.

    Short version: women have far less marketability and prospect to restart that Hypergamic process. They’ve lost a perceived investment and thus the emphasis is on remarriage being the context of finalizing that disconnection with her.

    I should also add that absolutely zero consideration is given to the incentives and reasons for the breakup whatsoever on her part. We are left to presume she is blameless in the circumstances that led to the split and he is heartless for “getting over’ her at all, much less quickly. We are left to presume that it’s he who should suffer the same or more. He should be pining for her, he should be regretting the split.

    It’s far easier for a man to move on with new women when his benchmark for intimacy was set by a sexless marriage to an authoritarian, shaming shrew. Maybe it’s that thought that really hurts – it was easy to get over her because the opt out for him is sooooo much better.

  31. Just Saying says:

    Men don’t want women with kids.

    Men are like lions – if she has kids, he would have to kill them to be sure that his resources go for his own, since we can’t do that – it’s just easier to get a woman who is younger without kids. That is reality. A friend, who’s wife detonated his marriage a couple years back, plays in our group and has his pick of the young ones that all want to “fuck a musician” and we try to make it easy for them. This past weekend we were playing at a wedding – lots of young women all feeling lonely. I would say it’s like shooting fish in a barrel, but these fish shoot themselves and jump in your bed.

    Anyway – he said that he still beds his ex mostly because it maintains the peace since he gets to see the kids, although his daughter is freaked when one of his women shows up and they are only a couple of years older than she is. That is the reality of divorce – the man gets over it and thrives if he has a support network, and plays his card right. Women usually find out the hard way that it’s not what they thought it would be or how it’s advertised. His ex keeps trying to “get back together” but as he said once, “I can close my eyes and imagine she is the sweet young thing she once was when it’s dark, but the hell is waking up next to her in the morning.”

    That’s why I enjoy the young ones – they are still lovely in the morning…

  32. Women only contemplate whether a man has moved on from her quickly when they care to concern themselves with it. If it was she who initiated the breakup with her Beta husband/BF women are simply indifferent to what the guy is doing.

    The satisfying feminine indignation comes from believing he was never really as invested as he led her to believe he was. Thus the loss of investment is converted to betrayal and becomes a source of self-righteousness despite any circumstance she contributed to the break.

  33. GeminiXcX says:

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7818628

    No shit, Sherlock.

    “Don’t it always seem to go; that you don’t know what you got ’til it’s gone.”

    -GXcX

  34. embracingreality says:

    @greyghost

    “Stay hard and save your worthless wife from being a cat lady with a stupid slut for a daughter or mangina sap for a son.”

    I expect thats good advice for married men though hardly inspiring. And I presume for us single men your advice regarding marriage would be to avoid it like the plague?

  35. “imagine deliberately pissing and shitting in the reservoir that is your only source of fresh water and then wailing and gnashing your teeth to the world that you’ve been victimized by disease”

    Good analogy. The pity is hard to feel. Though, I must point out, urine is generally sterile unless one has a terrible infection. Yeah, I literally wrote the book on composting – including human waste.

    That said, LL is human waste.

  36. srsly says:

    l jess
    That’s for one year. Most women who divorce in their early twenties will be married again by age thirty. (often within days of the divorce decree) A substantially lower portion of women who divorce in their early thirties will be married by age forty, and these women, if they want to remarry, will have to compete with the women who divorced younger and failed to get remarried quickly, and that’s on a second tier after younger women. In this way, even if a woman’s individual prospects could improve due to life advancement (it can’t, except if she’s obese and loses weight, and an improvement from zero is not relevant in this context) she’ll simply become a smaller and smaller fish in a bigger and bigger sea. But it’s because young women can easily jump from one man to the next that they will divorce without proper consideration.

  37. DeNihilist says:

    Yeah men are weird that way. Either full descent into oblivion, or fuck it, got a chance to do better.

    Read somewhere that about 80% of men that really consider suicide usually do it within six months. Seems the thought just grows and consumes them until they can’t take it anymore.

    I was on that downward spiral a few years back. Every day got darker. psychic pain that grew in intensity. Feeling that others would be better off with me gone. Starting to say goodbye, internally, to my family.

    One of my employees fell through a hole in a roof 20 feet and sustained multiple fractures, but no life threatening injuries. Through our workers comp, I was able to see a shrink for the trauma of his fall . Just in time. My visits quickly turned into my desire to off myself. The shrink was a no nonsense style of guy and helped me pull my head outta my ass. To this day I wonder if I would be here if my employee had not fallen through the roof.

  38. snowdensjacket0x0x0 says:

    I’m in my mid thirties.

    While I was going out with the bad online dating prospects I was out shopping at the mall. And just being friendly and chatting with people. And a girl that worked there let me know she had too many strawberries and wished she had a boyfriend to share them with.

    Later that night I was fingering her in a movie theater. She ended up being twenty years old.

    After that I just started picking up younger girls. They want to be picked up. I’m a high value man. Once girls do find out your age they will shit test you. They are just so easy to pass now. I had one girl who was twenty three explain to me, after her shit test was passed, that young girls should date older guys because maybe those guys want to have kids.

    I already have two kids. I barely get to see them anymore and my time with them is purely for me and them. So only one girl has ever even met them. So the girls know I really don’t have any kids. I have kids I sometimes get to visit with.

    Despite that they never see me interacting with my kids and I barely ever talk about them they will all say things like, “you know you are such a great father”. Especially if they see their room and all the toys and books.

    And they’ll connive some way to find out my ex wife’s name and go look her up in y Facebook. Often right in front of me. And immediately say something like, “wow she’s beautiful”. My ex gained two SMV points after the divorce and looks amazing.

    I parlay this to my advantage now as it is basically pre selection. I’ll agree and say something like, “I only go out with beautiful women”.

    The youngest I’ve pulled was 19. We “hung out” for three months. Then she moved. She sent me cute Snapchats for a few months and had found another guy to lead her around. When she moved she gave me her queen size bed and some of her furniture that her parents had given her. So I restocked things that had been taken from me in the divorce, for free, and got to fuck the youngest girl I have been with in my entire life.

    You just have to make yourself attractive and keep playing the game.

    And I’m sure my ex wife has fucked fifty men in the last two years. And that fifty more betas are trying to wife her up. So she’ll be fine. Hopefully she gets off the CC soon and ropes in a beta to help her improve my kids quality of life.

  39. Spaceman Spiffed says:

    You guys have done a pretty good job of dissecting that article, hitting all the individual points and exposing it for the self-entitled pity party it is.

    Just one observation I would like to add, and I wonder if you’ve seen the same in your experiences and if it applies to LL here.

    During and after my divorce, my ex still felt like she had some sort of “claim” to me, and believed she had some sort of power/control over what I did. I guess she got used to having it while I was blue-pill chump-of-the-year married to her. She never believed I had the balls to divorce her, and couldn’t imagine, much less understand, that I would change (despite the fact she demanded an ‘open marriage’ under threat of divorce and loss of access to my children) due to the sh*t she put me through. As a result, she couldn’t see me as an independent person, who moved on from her toxic presence. She had an ‘image’ of of a beaten down me stuck in her mind, and any reality that contradicts must be wrong. To this day, she hasn’t grasped who I’ve become.

    Laura strikes me as having the same sort of beliefs as my ex – that she still has some “right” to and over her ex husband. That her mind just won’t let it go and she obsesses over him (when she doesn’t have better things to do) – and this despite – to the best of my research – that she was the one to file for D (or it was mutual? – not sure).

    Is this a typical side-effect of the feminine hamster-wheel? Due to ego and solipsism, a woman refuses to acknowledge that someone might grow, be happy, and do better once they got rid of said woman? That somehow not only is there more to life than life with them, life may be better without them than it was with them? And when faced with evidence that the world has not conformed to their internal ego-soothing version of how thing should be, they respond as well as a computer on ‘Star Trek’ when given contradictory facts? (for those not getting the reference/trope – the computer short-circuits and melts down/self-destructs)

  40. Opus says:

    Much as I do not doubt the obvious message from Dalrock’s chart, I have to say, that I have never noticed that women of any age have any shortage of men – perhaps men they don’t want, of course – showing interest in them. It is men who as KMan correctly explains above have great difficulty getting over a relationship which they have committed themselves to and feel like failures for years after its failure if not for the rest of their life. I rather doubt (whatever the former Mrs Lifshitz thinks she observes) that Mr Lifshitz now has a new girlfriend (why would any man want that – as the status of boyfriend merely serve the F.I.: this is female projection). Maybe he just went out with someone who was merely being kind.

    I was in the Bank on Saturday and my Teller was a woman – reasonably presentable but approaching sixty years of age. She has a certain liveliness about her. This is how the conversation went:

    Opus: You seem to be in a good mood.
    Teller: I get the afternoon off, it being Saturday so at least I don’t have to clean the house in both the morning and afternoon.
    Opus: You are making me feel guilty, for I have all day to clean my home. [note the implied assertion of my single-dom]
    Teller: Actually I am off to a wedding reception this afternoon.
    Opus: How nice as I will be cleaning my home.
    Teller: I could invite you along but I don’t think my other half [no wedding ring on show] would be amused.

    I left it at that, but clearly the mention of her man was nothing other than a fitness test to gauge my enthusiasm. I have little doubt she would be fun for an afternoon’s romp. She knows where I live as it is next door to the bank. I trust you are all impressed my Master Class in gaming older woman.😉

  41. mike says:

    Spaceman, I think it may be related to the concrete nature of the frame the marriage was entered into. In other words, once a beta bucks, always a beta bucks. It’s almost like she is trying to stick up for the female gender as a whole by pointing and screaming, “No, he’s an alpha fraud! Herb, Just be your damn self!”.

  42. BuenaVista says:

    There’s zero evidence in this latest LL rambling that she has any idea what kind of shape her ex-husband is in. He could be doing great, he could be struggling mightily. All she knows is that he’s *acting* like he’s moving on.

    Anyway, she wanted the divorce and got it. Now she seems puzzled and sad because she can’t point at her ex- and say to her cohort: “See, what a loser! I’m doing so much better than he! I can do better and I am!” Post-divorce, she needs the justifying consolation of his ineptitude (socially) and emotional collapse. She appears to have very little idea as to why she terminated the family.

    As others have noted, the repeated assertions that “men move on better and faster” are completely belied by morbidity and mortality rates for divorced men. As a divorced man I wonder if one of the few remaining justifications for state marriage is this fact: it can be healthier.

  43. Oh for heck sake! This woman decided to burn her family down without a second thought. Her husband was not to blame. She doesn’t care about him, she never did. Only cares about herself. She lost him; and now the crying begins. I have so stopped caring about stupid women and divorce. Casting pearls before swine as it were. Screw that.

  44. Camden22 says:

    BuenaVista wrote

    As others have noted, the repeated assertions that “men move on better and faster” are completely belied by morbidity and mortality rates for divorced men. As a divorced man I wonder if one of the few remaining justifications for state marriage is this fact: it can be healthier.

    There are two points here. Firstly, the number of men who commit suicide is only a very small percentage of those that get divorced, so the two things are not mutually incompatible: a few men are so traumatised that they kill themselves, but the great majority do, in fact, get over it better and faster.

    Secondly, I think losing your house, losing your children, and having a high proprotion of your income stolen may well be relevant to the greater number of male suicides. If the situation was reversed I suspect the number of female suicides would be much higher too.

  45. Bucho says:

    Not to hijack the thread, but I was wondering why I haven’t seen anyone on the manosphere comment on “Master’s Degree In Masculinity” article from the NY Times. Ironically, it’s mostly career feminists that are interviewed in the article.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/fashion/masculinities-studies-stonybrook-michael-kimmel.html

    and the follow up….

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/08/10/style/masculinity-redux-readers-respond.html?_r=0

  46. Kate Minter says:

    john03063: I know of a woman who did that. The guy went along with it because his family had a lot of assets they felt lucky to keep in his first divorce; they didn’t want him to remarry. As if that wasn’t bad enough, they had a child together, and apparently felt no compunction about making her a bastard.

    TomC: I do know one very nice, young woman who married an older man with three children who did not have any of her own. To my knowledge, it was her first marriage. I know that my ex-husband’s “not-girlfriend” (he refuses to acknowledge her as his girlfriend) doesn’t have children and definitely has tried to insinuate herself with my daughter. I don’t know how prevalent this actually is (it might a result of small town limitations), but if a woman can’t have children or has passed the age where she can have her own children, I don’t think she’s opposed to dating someone with them. It gives them at least some experience with motherhood. I think when you really love someone, you can’t help but love their children as they are half them.

    TFH: I see this isn’t an issue for you anymore, but I wrote about that here and on the AVFM forum: https://themintermonologues.wordpress.com/2015/06/10/child-support-state-of-mind-2/

    In response to the overall post- even as a divorced person- I can’t relate. If you weren’t prepared to see your ex be with someone else, why did you get divorced? My ex has never introduced me to his “not-girlfriend.” I see no reason to meet her, know anything about her, or have anything to do with her. My mother’s met her, Mark has met her, my sister’s met her; I couldn’t care less. My ex is essentially a MGTOW and I think he’s wise to protect himself that way. I can’t imagine feeling pain or crying over him moving on as we’ve been divorced almost seven years now, and neither of us had a serious relationship till roughly five years after the divorce. I imagine it would be hurtful if the new girlfriend appeared right away or soon after the divorce and she was a superior choice. I suppose we were lucky it happened for us both at the same time.

    Spaceman spiffed: “She had an ‘image’ of of a beaten down me stuck in her mind, and any reality that contradicts must be wrong. To this day, she hasn’t grasped who I’ve become.” I understand where you’re coming from as my husband’s ex-wife has taken two years to get to the point where she can confine herself to making one sullen remark to me and then leaving me alone. It has taken her that long to begin to acknowledge Mark is no longer the person she knew and to stop trying to use me as a therapist/scapegoat for her issues. Believe it or not, this is incredible progress.

  47. Deansdale says:

    “So basically, it sucks to be a woman and have a vagina, yet again.”
    But only because it impaires their mental capabilities. Statistics show that suicide rises sharply after divorce for men, but it doesn’t change at all for women. Those pesky facts always betraying poor little liers…

  48. Novaseeker says:

    During and after my divorce, my ex still felt like she had some sort of “claim” to me, and believed she had some sort of power/control over what I did.

    Oh yes this is common enough.

    In my case it’s because she thinks she had the right to be a policeman because of or son — is, as Mom she has the right to meddle in my life because I interact with our son.

    In reality it’s just another aspect of her desperate need to control everything around her to the greatest extent possible. Unfortunately quite a few are like this

  49. Regular Guy says:

    Bluntobj said, “I first wrote a bit of a gloating reply, but then I realized it was pointless.

    LL is simply another (admittedly anecdotal) piece of evidence that women cannot plan rationally, nor extrapolate the consequences of their actions in the long term. Be aware and remember: AWALT”

    +1 This! As I discovered and accepted the psychological limitations of women, it made me appreciate the biblical role of protector, provider and sometimes, disciplinarian men have. To allow when into roles of any leadership outside of the management of resources is simply irresponsible. Women are the responsibility of men, and men shirk this responsibility are contemptible.

    Men are instinctively hierarchical, falling into line for the sake of the organization and stepping up into leadership when it’s clear they’re the man for the job. Women want to lead without wanting to follow. Women, with rare exception, simply aren’t cut out for that. For women who are the exception to the rule, the societal cost to allow them to lead is simply too high.

  50. HawkandRock says:

    “Women are the responsibility of men, and men shirk this responsibility are contemptible.”

    Unfortunately this responsibility does not end when your ‘woman’ has an affair and divorces you. It’s not illegal to commit adultery but try not paying alimony to an adulterous ex-wife and see how quickly you end up in jail.

    I think this situation is not only immoral but downright evil…. but I’ve always been “contemptible” like that.

  51. Anchorman says:

    A woman, like LL, who plans a frivorce already moved on during the marriage.

    She’s gone through the stages of grief and loss while still married.

    Faulting the husband for moving on before she could stick the landing is, as spaceman indicated, a hint that the women divorcing good men still want them on some type of retainer.

    From a frivorced dad perspective, I meet divorced women with children.

    If a divorced (or single) mom had primary or full custody, that’s a red flag for me.

    It means she either married/dated a loser who didn’t want to be in the kid’s life or has serious issues or (more likely), she gamed the system to screw him so she could get cash and prizes.

    There isn’t a third way, without invoking “unicorn” status.

  52. Moses says:

    My mother was 40 when she decided to cheat on my father, then 42. Not sure what happened when he found out. But I do know he moved out shortly after that. My parents told me is was just “temporary.” I was 16. I knew better.

    My dad moved into a shabby apartment next to the university where the students lived.

    He was devastated. Floored. Shattered. Depressed. For a year.

    Then he picked up his life again. He got new hobbies. And he started beating women off with a stick.

    You see, my dad was a boring beta with a good job. He didn’t drink. He was caring and thoughtful. Other women saw it, and wanted it. A few years after the divorce one woman went after him on a mission. She got him. They’re great together. Now they’ve been married longer than my parents were.

    And my mother? Oh, she’s single. She can’t deal with financial or business affairs like selling her house. Lonely.

    She thought my father was the root of her problems. Eat-pray-love and all that, 80s style. So she blew up her family.

    Turned out he wasn’t the problem at all.

  53. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    TFH: In his desperation to backward-engineer his preferred conclusion that women’s jobs are more resistant to AI …

    I’ve heard or read so many news stories over the decades, about how women are better suited to this or that job than are men.

    I remember one TV news story in the 1980s that examined women in the military. It suggested that women are better suited for the job of submarine crew — !!! — because they have smaller lungs than do men, breathe less air, and thus the submarine can stay underwater longer.

    The media is so desperate to instruct us on the superiority of women. That women are more likely to avoid conflict, but if there is a need for police or soldiers, women are superior in so many ways.

  54. Pete says:

    I agree that she had Bible-based grounds for divorce…
    Show me where it says a wife can divorce her husband. It does not. It talks about the husband divorcing the wife for infidelity.

  55. Boxer says:

    She’s gone through the stages of grief and loss while still married.

    Generally, women do not mourn relationships like men do. Women are pursued in their teenage years, and thus they grow up thinking that there will always be another man or three, whenever they want one.

    If you grew up seeing different flavors of ice cream magically appear in your freezer, would you mourn the throwing away of the flavor you’ve become sick of eating?

  56. BradA says:

    It means she either married/dated a loser who didn’t want to be in the kid’s life or has serious issues or (more likely), she gamed the system to screw him so she could get cash and prizes.

    I would be more concerned about a woman who did not get custody in today’s environment, given that it is weighted toward the woman.

    Though instant families are outside my focus point now, or would be if I was single.

  57. BuenaVista says:

    Camden22 considers a suicide rate of 9x that of women a minor statistical blip.

    Well. It is not. It’s 9x. And divorced men don’t live nearly as long even if they don’t eat a bullet. The sexes respond to family detonation in very different ways.

    It’s pretty easy to see why this is, if one just reads Lifshitz. She lacks interest or insight into her ex-husband. Her description of him — his absence being something she mourns — doesn’t even rise to the level of superficial. She lacks the ability to think abstractly, which would allow her to reason her way to an understanding as to why she ended the marriage, and why now she’s distressed that she misses the benefits of marriage. She demonstrates a complete inability to locate her decisions in a moral or ethical context.

    So she surfs her feelings, oblivious to her effects on other humans. It’s a lot easy to cry it out and hug it out on the internet and go out for pizza than to sit in a chair, with a bottle and an M9, and think about the people who were once in your life. And who are now gone. Perhaps they send cards and friend you on Facebook.

  58. Gunner Q says:

    KMan @ 9:27 pm:
    “Actually, there is strong evidence that men take separation harder than women. If some men find new partners more quickly, perhaps it’s not just because they have an SMV advantage, but because the (emotional) cost of not moving on is greater than for their ex-wives.”

    I wonder if it’s more a case of men getting acclimated to marriage. On the one hand, I’ve met guys who are on their fourth(!) marriage. On the other hand, many guys who are passed over by women until middle age seem to quit even the idea of having a family. Once a man builds his life, there’s a lot of inertia keeping him on the path.

    Feral women don’t appreciate that masculine inertia. The husband keeps his wife for the same reason he keeps his old car, because it’s his and it’s comfortable. If it explodes or drains his resources, however, there are new models everywhere…

  59. Regular Guy says:

    Gemini said, “This woman needs to be publicly flogged ignored by everyone.”

    I like that better.

  60. feeriker says:

    “This woman needs to be publicly flogged ignored by everyone.”

    “This woman needs to be publicly floggedignored widely ridiculed by everyone.”

    I like this best of all.

  61. anonymous_ng says:

    Gunner, I think a lot of men keep their harridans because they gave their oath on the day of their wedding. I know that I wouldn’t have divorced my ex over her depression, lack of interest in sex, or her incessant nagging.

    However, when she announced that we were getting divorced and started screwing someone else, I gave her one opportunity to change her wicked ways and when she had no interest in that, filed the papers.

  62. Spacetraveller says:

    @ Regular Guy,

    “I like that better.”

    I am very impressed by your insight into women like this.
    It is my misfortune that I have had to dissect the behavioural psychology (at close quarters) of exactly this type of woman. To see what makes them tick.

    Consider Buena Vista’s comment:

    “She lacks interest or insight into her ex-husband. Her description of him — his absence being something she mourns — doesn’t even rise to the level of superficial. She lacks the ability to think abstractly, which would allow her to reason her way to an understanding as to why she ended the marriage, and why now she’s distressed that she misses the benefits of marriage. She demonstrates a complete inability to locate her decisions in a moral or ethical context.

    So she surfs her feelings, oblivious to her effects on other humans. It’s a lot easy to cry it out and hug it out on the internet and go out for pizza than to sit in a chair, with a bottle and an M9, and think about the people who were once in your life. And who are now gone. Perhaps they send cards and friend you on Facebook.”

    This is an apt description of what this type of creature is like. They have a TOTAL lack of introspection. So they go from crisis to crisis in their life and with each unfortunate event, they just cannot fathom why ‘bad things’ are happening. In fact, they, without fail, always believe that these things are happening to them without any contribution from themselves. And yet, it is obvious to anyone watching that they themselves are the cause of their own problems…

    They also cannot abide to be ignored. They must have their cronies around them validating their chronically wrong decisions, all the time. Without their cronies cheering them on, they are as good as dead. The ATTENTION is a vital element in their sickness.
    LL writes ad nauseum about her personal failures not to learn anything from them, but to garner attention to herself. That’s all. These women are extremely narcissistic.
    To deprive them of this attention is to figuratively stifle them.

    It is indeed very sad to witness.

    Moses,

    I hope you can assure me that your mother feels some remorse for having destroyed your family – and not just because your father is with someone else…

  63. Danceny says:

    This is all obvious; the question, perhaps for another Dalrock post, is: How to get this into the head of a still-married, not-haaapy woman BEFORE she nukes the family? Anticipating the relative crappiness of her life post-divorce is cold comfort to a dad who wants to keep his home and kids.

    The longer I’m married the less faith I have in the Athol Kay strategy. If you’re a “beta” (non-psychopath, non-cad, or not overtly FAR more attractive than your wife) going in, you WILL backslide over the long-run. And it’s mainly your commitment (no sexual rivalry tingles), domestic life and familiarity (interloping males don’t seem to come with laundry, bills, farts, etc.) that betaize you in her eyes, while she eats a steady diet of divorce-porn via TV, extramarital IOIs (which she’ll misinterpret as signaling her marriage market value, not her booty-call value), and friends who’ve chosen the EatPrayLove plan and want to drag her along into their misery. The whole culture is against you. “Tight married game” IMO is just an unfulfilling and doomed war of attrition for many husbands.

  64. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Spacetraveller: They also cannot abide to be ignored. They must have their cronies around them validating their chronically wrong decisions, all the time. Without their cronies cheering them on, they are as good as dead. The ATTENTION is a vital element in their sickness.

    Your comment brings to mind this divorcee who returned to college at age 68, in order to get an MFA in Creative Nonfiction: http://the-toast.net/2015/07/27/grad-school-ageism/view-all/

    Her article is an extended complaint about ageism and sexism. Some telling items from her article:

    I am not a quiet student. I have a lot to say and much experience to underscore my outspokenness. I can seem opinionated…

    I was surprised by the degree to which the more mature male professors seemed unnerved by my presence, and they became the main source of my day-to-day anxiety.

    … once a woman passes the mid-fifties mark, she is supposed to be invisible. She is supposed to fade into the woodwork and be quiet. She is “unfuckable,” and that renders her unworthy of great thought.

    … all my tribulations at Columbia are hardly different from those I have been experiencing since I left my marriage. A friend recently remarked that I should have walked away much sooner, while I was young enough to be noticed …

    Except for those in that fabled One Percent, women inevitably fare far worse in divorce than men. And the older they are, the worse they fare. Though 90% of divorced women initiate their divorces, a divorced older woman is often considered tainted merchandise. Unless she has been physically abused, the court is likely to show her no mercy in the doling of property.

  65. Liz says:

    I’d never heard of this writer (LL) before. But after perusing her handiwork for about 10 minutes, I’ve noticed she likes to use the passive voice a lot. “Mistakes were made”. “The marriage ended”. And so forth…
    Her tune also seems to have changed 180 out in a very very short time. Just five months before she wrote this she wrote another piece entitled, “Why You Should Date My Ex Husband”.
    Perhaps “humor” is now the description we give for “lunacy” (at least for females…not unlike the courtesy the Old School would to bestow to aristocracy with their unusual “eccentricities” and “eclectic mysteries”).

  66. Camden22 says:

    BuenaVista: If 10 women commit suicide after divorce, and 90 men, then that’s bad. However, if 5000 men got divorced then perhaps the other 4910 did move on quickly and calmly. You seemed to be arguing that because men commit suicide more than women, then it means that they don’t move on. I was merely indicating that it’s not an either/or situation. I also indicated that if men got the house, and custody of the children, and the ex-wife was forced to hand over a large chunk of her income (and this was actually enforced) then the ratio of suicides would probably reverse.

  67. BuenaVista says:

    Camden22, your comment misunderstands both the mathematics of decisioning, and the statistics of inference.

    Suicide *IS* an either/or situation. Suicide is final. You’re saying that on average it’s not significant. Well, it’s significant if you’re related to one. It’s like the difference between pricing a mortgage (mostly guys persevere), and pricing default (suicide). One uses different mathematics for each.

    The preponderance of male suicide is not anecdotal; it permits robust analytical inference to the rest of your 4910 non-suicides. It does so because the suicides, and the non-suicides are both *male*. Ignoring the information in the suicide ratios is ignorant.

    I don’t know if women would react as men do to the financial and relationship penalties of divorce today. I guess you’re asserting that men and women are psychologically and emotionally equal, so that if their material situations were the same, they would behave the same way. There’s zero evidence of that in the current world.

  68. “with each unfortunate event, they just cannot fathom why ‘bad things’ are happening. In fact, they, without fail, always believe that these things are happening to them without any contribution from themselves”

    It must be the Patriarchy! I need feminism because…

  69. Spacetraveller says:

    @ RPL,

    Perfect example of the type of woman we are talking about here!
    This woman you present fits the bill very well indeed!
    Is this the mother of LL by any chance?

    @ Liz,

    Your obserevation corroborates mine. The passive voice is a VERY typical form of speech amongst this genre of woman.
    This is exactly why I said this above:

    “In fact, they, without fail, always believe that these things are happening to them without any contribution from themselves.”

    ‘Things’ somehow seem to magically happen to these women, outside of their control. At least this is what they will have us believe.

    The marriage failed…NOT because LL chose to file for divorce…
    No, it failed because… some unknown force in the Universe…

    Mistakes were made…
    NOT that LL made a mistake…
    No…a mistake was made by some unidentifiable flying object…

    It is a smoke-screen to cover up wrongdoing on her part. And she knows it, which is precisely why she needs to use vague descriptive language to smooth over her tracks in the first place.

    This type of woman believes that she is oh so clever.
    And yet she very readable when you watch her closely.

  70. @Kman, after thinking about that 1:9 suicide ratio I chalk it up to two things, hamsters keep the women alive, they are shielded against the reality of their situations. Meanwhile in Blue-pill land men come to the conclusion that they have failed as a provider and their poor romantic hearts are “bwoken”. I know I had a short phase of this in a marital rough patch and pre-RP.

  71. Dalrock says:

    @Danceny

    This is all obvious; the question, perhaps for another Dalrock post, is: How to get this into the head of a still-married, not-haaapy woman BEFORE she nukes the family? Anticipating the relative crappiness of her life post-divorce is cold comfort to a dad who wants to keep his home and kids.

    My wife has found that when talking to a woman considering divorce bringing up the pain/cost her children will bear as a result of divorce runs right off, like beads of water on a well waxed car. However, if framed correctly they are very often moved by words of caution about their post divorce SMV/MMV prospects. Once they fear that divorce will harm them personally, the woman is then of course free to rationalize that she is deciding to stay married for the children.

    As far as getting the message through, there are a number of approaches. Greyghost described above how he framed this for his wife. Another way to do it is to point out the stark differences between the “real life” divorce empowerment tales sold to women and what actually happened. If you aren’t familiar with the unintentionally and tragically hilarious stories behind EPL and How Stella Got Her Groove Back, you could start there. You could open with these, and then when she (almost certainly) asserts that these are flukes, could then start cataloging divorces you are familiar with in real life. The challenge here will be to keep her focused on real life people who actually exist (I can’t emphasize this enough) and whom you can directly observe their actual outcomes. For example, friends, neighbors, coworkers, church members, etc. generally fall under this category. Characters in romance novels, lifetime movies, soap operas, etc don’t. Reality TV stars, actresses, and otherwise wealthy and/or famous women are bad examples, because they are experts at putting up a false front and they also can lure attractive on paper men for at least the short term who are looking for wealth and/or fame. Moreover, you don’t want a couple where you hear about the new man, you want a couple where you can meet the new man. This is critical because there is an incredible amount of rationalization going on by divorced women, as I explained in this post (scroll down to “Enter the hamster”). So long as you can keep her looking at real, verifiable people, you will find your wife slowly moves from denying reality to laughing at the misfortune of women foolish enough to do what she herself considered was a great idea.

    While you can deliver this message as the husband, it is even better if delivered by the woman’s son. Son’s are the unspoken fall-back plan for women planning on jettisoning their husband. They are the male family members a woman expects to have in her corner for protection, assistance, etc. A few well chosen words from a teenage son will turn an unhaaapy woman around faster than anything or else. The most effective framing here is for the son to warn his mother that she doesn’t want to become the laughingstock the mother of X friend has become (examples will be easy to find) who divorced the father only to be passed around by loser men while the father remarried (or at least dating) a much younger woman. I don’t want a hot stepmother like Jack has, mom, I want you and dad to stay married. This means if the mother leaps and it turns out badly, she knows she can’t call her son and complain about her lot in life for the next 40 years. He told her she would look foolish if she decided to turn everyone’s (including his) life upside down. If you know any young men wanting to talk their mother out of this mistake, you can help them protect their mother and their own family. Along the same lines, other women can deliver this same message.

  72. feeriker says:

    I don’t want a hot stepmother like Jack has, mom, I want you and dad to stay married

    I can imagine that the mere mention of “hot stepmom” by a teenage son will send some of these bat shit-crazy basket case women over the edge.

  73. StriverX says:

    Camden22,

    I don’t think the ratio of suicides would reverse, because men and women don’t process life experiences the same way.

    Men are builders more than women. Women are social creatures more than men. Women tend to be motivated more by envy, more zero sum, more focused on the fact that they have missed something or don’t have their share of the pie. Men need to build to stand out because they don’t have the nearly automatic entry into the gene pool that women do. So a man needs to build a life to be able to mate.

    So when that’s blown up for a man, he’s lost what he has built and it’s devastating. I don’t think a woman will ever see that the same way due to their different places in the mating game.

  74. greyghost says:

    “This woman needs to be publicly (flogged/ignored) widely ridiculed by everyone.”

    This works very well day to day with women and daughters. Openly laugh at and make fun of single mothers. Call out slut behavior. Example a story in the local paper about some mother getting killed in a DV incident. I laugh at that and explain the story usually it is a baby daddy or some guy fucking a single mom that is a thug and the father of the child is in jail or some nice chump that doesn’t have the thug tingles. The incident that led to her death is one of many the lover was arrested for before involving the stupid bitch. Laugh at those women as any thoughtful and loving father should.

  75. Pingback: Post Selection |

  76. snowdensjacket0x0x0 says:

    Also on suicide…

    In the year while I was trying to come to terms with an adulterous “wife”, having my home and literally 100% of my property stolen from me, my children taken from me, and being processed into a criminal and a modern slave I attempted suicide. Twice.

    The second year I focused only on myself. Killing my fatherhood instinct was the most painful thing I’ve ever had to do. But it was essential as I am not a father. I have some kids. But I am in no way a father. Had I not lobotomized my fatherhood from my own soul I would be dead.

    All women, all of them, even my own mother and my own sisters are completely unable to comprehend what I have been through. They are honestly confused when I try to explain to them just a tiny slice of the pain that our worthless society put me through. When I explain the incredible deep legal sexism that I have had to suffer through.

    Thank God for the men at the red pill forums and the manosphere at large. You guys all helped save my life. I hope I can return the favor for other men. We suffer alone.

  77. feeriker says:

    Sons are the unspoken fall-back plan for women planning on jettisoning their husband. They are the male family members a woman expects to have in her corner for protection, assistance, etc.

    I remember one instance from many years ago where that strategy backfired on a woman I knew, and with nearly lethal consequences.

    A female family friend who was also a neighbor, with two teenage children (a 16-year-old son and a 13-year-old daughter), decided that she “jusdinnwannabeemarriednomore” and frivorced her perfectly good hubby, who was also a loving dad to his kids.

    As was (and still is) typical of the People’s Socialist Democratic Republic of California, especially in the salad years of his-fault divorce law, she got custody of the kids and did her damndest to keep Dad away from them even though he had full visitation rights. Both kids resented this, but the son, who was a casual friend of mine, became absolutely incorrigible over it. To say that he began hating his mother’s guts is putting it too politely.

    I’ll never forget that night 41 years ago when two cop cars, a fire engine, and two ambulances screached to a halt in the middle of the street in front of their house. The cops went into the house first and after 10 minutes emerged with my friend in handcuffs, an absolutely zombified look on his face. The ambulance crew went in after the cops and came out with the mother on a stretcher. She looked like she had gone 20 rounds with Mike Tyson. She was black, blue, and red with blood all over, after her son snapped, went berserk, and beat the living shit out of her with his bare fists (it looked like he had used a baseball bat on her, but apparently he later told the cops that he just used his fists). Mom wound up spending almost a month in the hospital. Her son was convicted of felony assault and got a five-year prison sentence (juvenile). I lost contact with the family after I moved away from home two years later, so I don’t know what ultimately became of the kid. I’m not optimistic that he’s been living a happy adult life today -if he’s even still alive.

    Oh, and Dad wound up getting custody of the daughter (apparently getting the shit beaten out of her by her own son convinced the courts that Mom might not have been the ideal custodial parent after all).

    So, “ladies,” assuming that you’re that rare unicorn who is capable of learning from other people’s idiotic mistakes, consider not looking upon or treating your son as a surrogate for his dad, especially if you trash-talk the dad he loves. Pray that just hating your guts is the nicest thing he’ll do to you.

  78. greginaurora says:

    “There is no romance for a red pill man.”

    ^This. Early on, shortly after I took the red pill, I read something in a comment section that ran like “With every (PUA/Game) success my heart dies a little more”, the context of the statement being that the romantic love that the man felt early in his life was now impossible, given that he understands women. Understanding the Red Pill means understanding that Romance is impossible with a woman, and denying said fact is the path to relationship failure. If a man truly loves his woman, he must love her as she is, not how he wishes she were. She’s a woman. Women only love Alphas. If you behave like a Beta she’ll stop loving you. Cold, rational logic is the only recourse for a man in today’s world. Game her, and she’ll love you forever. “Love” her, and she’ll lose interest.

  79. Moses says:

    @Spacetraveller

    I think she does feel remorse although she never talks about it.

    My sense is she expected to have this amazing eat-pray-love life after getting rid of my father. That didn’t happen. Instead it was my father who really emerged from the ashes like a phoenix.

    My folks divorce certainly was a factor in my being gun-shy about marriage. But thank God for that. It gave me time to date plenty, build my career and discover the red pill. I used that knowledge and high SMV to marry a sweet, traditional, feminine and caring girl many years younger. She naturally believes in the husband’s headship. We have two kids now. Never thought I’d say it, but I’m a happily married man.

    I shudder to think at some of the women I might have ended up in my blue pill days. Talk about dodging a bullet.

  80. BuenaVista says:

    Snowdenetc. is right. At best, we are all ‘kindly uncles’ now. The curious, kindly uncles who live alone and deliver packages of money at timely moments. Our children admire our timely support, or we don’t see them at all.

  81. Spike says:

    greginaurora says:

    August 11, 2015 at 7:50 pm
    “There is no romance for a red pill man.”

    greg:

    I’d have to agree, albeit in a slightly different way.
    For the Christian, there PUA and hookup culture isn’t where he should be. Rather he is to find and keep a wife.
    At present, the education system – internationally – does not teach women how to be wives (feminists would yell “that’s sexist!”) – indeed the system mitigates against women becoming wives despite the growing divorce rate and decline in family with associated social problems. The Church is no better at all. As a Christian for 30 years, I have never encountered a course that prepares women or men for marriage, apart from a Mickey Mouse course for engaged couples that is based on Psychology, not Scripture, that equates the “Egalitarian” model on a par with the “Traditional” model.
    The Red Pill rather allows us to have a hard head without a hard heart, a thing Jesus warned us against (matt 19:8, Mark 10:5). In an age of unrestrained hypergamy, unrestrained female promiscuity, abortion equating to murder without guilt – a man must weigh matters in his head as to whether a woman is suitable wife material. Manyhere will, and have, stated that marriage is not an option, and I don’t blame them for that conclusion – precisely because they have used red Pill tools and have thought it through. thus “Love” is not a guide for marriage, despite a wicked systems constant lies that it is adequate.

  82. greyghost says:

    The thing about red pill is the joy and happiness is real. Blue pill joy from romance and love is loud and emotional but empty. Chasing money ,pleasing women, pleasing society, serving the “church” (not God) working for as much money as possible etc. Selling out your masculinity for public approval and in the end you are punished by the very society you blue pilled yourself into pleasing. All of the approval praise and success and good feeling from blue pill achievement is founded on lies. Even the bible and church is bullshit when blue pill.
    Red pill, everything is different, politics, the job, radio, TV, music, the kids, wife, the dogs, money, the bible ,everything. Blue pill wins are like injecting yourself with synthol and no body challenging you because you look like a big dude. With red pill there is no romance but something better and more solid. I feel better and more confident about my wife now ,knowing she is a POS (if you don’t understand you will one day) than I ever did as some giddy sap in love and driven to do what ever to please her and make her happy. And this goes for life in general in all areas. I don’t get mad any more (blue pill men get butt hurt easily) I do not try to make my wife of any body happy I just treat people red pill well. Just handle your business and don’t give a shit. The returns are solid. The joy isn’t pleasing to man stuff , The joy is the deep confident god joy I wish I could explain it better. Christian living is a lot easier when red pill.

    snowdensjacket0x0x0
    Hang in there when the blue pill lies hit it can be deadly. Don’t worry about females understanding you. They don’t have the capacity and never did.

  83. Looking Glass says:

    @greyghost:

    Functionally, for the Christian, it is to start to “live” in Truth. You start to understand that all of your cultural training is to sell your soul to the world. To “gain the World and lose your Soul”. The Lord’s Peace (which is “beyond understanding”) and the joy from the Spirit are there for the taking because you get rid of your illusions about “what should be”.

    And the last bit is really important: “Life should go how I want it to go” is the utter heights of Pride. That’s what eats apart the “blue pill” Man. He’s lives incredibly prideful but ultimately worthless life. Shedding that life is to reject pride and learn proper humility. To live an honorable life; weighing yourself in accord with God and not Man. This is true Freedom, and why it feels so wonderful.

    But the problem we have is that it can be a lonely existence. However, I look back to the Desert Fathers, the Men that founded the monastic traditions. (Some of which have been around for going on 1800 years) Taking a wife should come from a position of Wisdom and understanding, not because “it’s what you should do”. Once a Man makes his decision, he needs to proceed with what that decision entails. It’s always your life; taking responsibility for it is hard. But so rewarding.

  84. GeminiXcX says:

    greyghost
    “This woman needs to be publicly (flogged/ignored) widely ridiculed by everyone.”

    This works very well day to day with women and daughters. Openly laugh at and make fun of single mothers. Call out slut behavior. Example a story in the local paper about some mother getting killed in a DV incident. I laugh at that and explain the story usually it is a baby daddy or some guy fucking a single mom that is a thug and the father of the child is in jail or some nice chump that doesn’t have the thug tingles. The incident that led to her death is one of many the lover was arrested for before involving the stupid bitch. Laugh at those women as any thoughtful and loving father should.

    When a woman chooses her partner, there is no such thing as her being ‘a victim of’ domestic violence, just ‘an accomplice to’ domestic violence.

    For every fist a woman gets in her face by an asshole she wanted, there is a loving husband/father type ready to call it quits on life itself, because he can’t get a date to save his life.

    I used to think that women getting slapped around, or out-right beaten, was such a despicable thing. Now, my sympathy is below nothing.

    Warning: Shameless self-promotion below. . .
    I’m piecing together a (small) podcast that I plan to title as “Dramastic violence”. Once completed, I’ll see if RoK (or another forum with guest submissions) will post a link to it, as I do not yet have my own blog.

    -GXcX

  85. GeminiXcX says:

    Looking Glass on August 11, 2015 at 10:33 pm
    @greyghost:

    Functionally, for the Christian, it is to start to “live” in Truth. You start to understand that all of your cultural training is to sell your soul to the world. To “gain the World and lose your Soul”. The Lord’s Peace (which is “beyond understanding”) and the joy from the Spirit are there for the taking because you get rid of your illusions about “what should be”.

    And the last bit is really important: “Life should go how I want it to go” is the utter heights of Pride. That’s what eats apart the “blue pill” Man. He’s lives incredibly prideful but ultimately worthless life. Shedding that life is to reject pride and learn proper humility. To live an honorable life; weighing yourself in accord with God and not Man. This is true Freedom, and why it feels so wonderful.

    For starters, Adam was perfect, and he was still incomplete without Eve. Your comment sounds like the rubbish I used to hear in my Churchian days. ‘Just busy yourself in the Lord’s work to distract yourself from your feelings of -suicidal and devestating emptiness from realizing you’re such an abomination of a human being that nobody wants you, even though you’re sincerely persuing your faith- some loneliness from not being married. Or the other tripe, ‘how to enjoy being single’.

    It would be interesting to use the ‘TFL’ part on all the lovely “Christians” around you, and say/enforce on all these couples: “You will now all separate. Your spouses are gone, your families are gone. No love, no sex, not even the most basic intimate human touch. And you don’t get to go back until I say so. The thing is, you don’t know when that is, or if it will even ever happen. . . And another year goes by.”

    See how long these people would last in doing Church activities, or even in being able to function in life.

    Your post is exceptionally cruel, and to say -the heart that’s closing off as the soul is dying- it’s a “pride” problem, get the hell of your high horse.

    -GXcX

  86. @Snowdensjack: Stop relying on all those women in your life for validation. You are superior to every one of those creatures and things will not get markedly better until you realize that. Take the Red Pill, Bro.

    With due respect to the Christian nature of this blog, I personally think any guy who finds himself frivorced will be forgiven for learning PUA and plowing through the bleeting virginal sluts like the bulls at Pamplona.

  87. I said, “…Women are the responsibility of men, and men shirk this responsibility are contemptible.”

    Then HawkandRock replied, “Unfortunately this responsibility does not end when your ‘woman’ has an affair and divorces you. It’s not illegal to commit adultery but try not paying alimony to an adulterous ex-wife and see how quickly you end up in jail.

    I understand, but I was referring to Men’s moral responsibility to women, not legal responsibility. What you say is true and I completely understand and sympathize with men today who refuse to marry.

    That being said, a man’s biblical and moral responsibility ends to his wife when she dares to step out from under the authority of her husband.

  88. Striver says:

    I’m gonna say that the value of the “red pill” is overrated.

    I’d rather that I’d married someone that would fight for our marriage. I did not. I enjoy some autonomy with the kids now, that is true. I’d rather have had a better marriage and still be in it.

    I’m 50. I know the life expectancy of single or divorced men as they age. I also know that remarried people are happier than divorced, but not as happy as those in first marriages. I think it’s hard for a second marriage to achieve the optimism of a first marriage unless the bar was really low in the first marriage. But a lot of us thought we were making good choices going into the first marriage. So what now?

    Eventually I am going to probably partner up with some woman again because it’s going to be my best available choice. Even most of those who are successful at “spinning plates” tire of the grind, and they eventually have to choose a partner. Then I’m trying to balance this new woman who I will never have children with against my children with my former wife. That stuff can get to be a mess.

    I don’t think any sort of “red pill” knowledge is going to be better that if this all hadn’t happened to me. Part of life is pain, it’s my turn, I just don’t really see much good coming out of it.

  89. Looking Glass says:

    @GeminiXcX:

    You seem to have completely misread my comment. So your Adam point is completely off-base. You missed the context of the response to greyghost, and implied something about the early monastic tradition that utterly isn’t there.

    You completely lost my point about ” ‘liv[ing]’ in Truth” and not in your own self-delusion. Which, if that is “cruelty”, then all of our souls are toast, as that’s what God requires of us for Salvation.

  90. greyghost says:

    Looking Glass
    That was a strange comment

  91. Dave says:

    On another note, another woman, who thoughtlessly filed a frivorce at age 46, and lost the custody of her kids, could not bring herself to acknowledge that the kids could claim the father’s country as their own. Did anyone notice how she talked about a “parent losing their kids” when those kids are going to be with their father, and how her kids are moving to “a foreign country” though the country is actually where the kids father was from?

  92. Pingback: Woman, do not divorce. | Dark Brightness

  93. Tam the Bam says:

    Spacetraveller:- “.. they just cannot fathom why ‘bad things’ are happening. In fact, they, without fail, always believe that these things are happening to them without any contribution from themselves. And yet, it is obvious”

    paging TFH .. Will Mr TFH please come to reception?
    What is yet another thing that women lack? Oh yes, that was it.
    Agency.

    I frequently burst out laughing these days when they’re doing That Thing (as per yr. quote) Regrettable lapse, but can’t help it. People still laugh at the kid who gets their head stuck in the railings, but “wasn’t doin’ nothin’ ” too.
    The ensuing indignation and incomprehension is to be treasured.
    Why so .. unsympathetic? Monster, misogynist, and for all I know (I’m no longer listening) baby-eating werewolf, they wail.
    Not at all my dear. Why, I’m all fat and jolly like Santa. Ho! Ho! Ho! See?
    Would you like to sit on my knee, young lady?

  94. Spacetraveller says:

    Moses,

    Wonderful to hear you are happily married to a great woman. That is truly lovely to hear.
    Good for you!

  95. sonofdeathswriter says:

    If the Feminist plan was to make the world 10% men and 90% women. How can they complain when their aren’t enough men. Also men at the older age have usually made up their mind what they are going to do and she says it’s easier for men. She failed to acknowledge that he has given up on her like she has given up on him and moved on. He figured there is no point of complaining about it so he moved on. And someone other woman got his attention which she didn’t want.

    This is the divorce. Grow up. He moved on. So why are you crying? You didn’t want to be with him so shut up and live your life.

  96. Driver says:

    Women will always view their failed relationships through the lens of the FI. It’s never their fault that the relationship ended (even if they were the ones cheating on their husbands or they were the ones filing for divorce because of “unhappy”). It’s the hamster in full motion with society (the FI) backing them up. I have seen and heard about this happening – countless times – you just have to shake your head.

    Some commenters on here have stated the actual numbers on suicide rates – more men are still killing themselves off versus women (be it a small number or large number – does it matter?). Even then, women will walk away guilt free (some with their new life and new man to look forward to at that point).

    Maybe one day these numbers will become high enough where society will decide to make a change (before it’s too late).

  97. Driver says:

    @Snowdens

    Your situation is the very reason why I participate in the manosphere forums here, on Rollo’s, etc….

    I didn’t have a solid group of men that I could turn to ‘back when’ I was going through a rough patch. This support simply didn’t exist (the FI was busy tearing down anything to do with ‘men only’ spaces, clubs, etc..) places where men would gather to discuss ideas, thoughts, questions, troubles, etc…over drinks. A bar is the only haven left (I’m talking local pubs or bars…not these large corp chains)….and often we’re busy sharing that one with women, too, because of ‘sexism’ (again, you have to fucking laugh at it all).

    We are here…and I’ll always be around for conversation and a drink. It’s the thing that is really missing with many of these young men, today (good advice and leadership from men).

  98. redbeard says:

    @ greyghost

    I see you prefer the Ken Titus -approach.

    (2:15 – 2:35)

  99. Spacetraveller says:

    Tam the Bam,

    Exactly…
    It would be amusing to me too, if it wasn’t so tragic to watch.
    The temporal disconnect is incredible…
    “I stuck my finger in fire”….or rather, in their parlance…..”fingers were stuck in fire…and we don’t understand why they are burning. Can someone explain why this is happening?
    Anyone??”

    Unbelievable…but there we are…
    It is so with these women. It is not that they lack agency (I think they know very well they are doing wrong). It is just that they won’t admit their wrongdoing. It is everyone else’s fault but theirs…

  100. Liz says:

    “Oh, and Dad wound up getting custody of the daughter (apparently getting the shit beaten out of her by her own son convinced the courts that Mom might not have been the ideal custodial parent after all).

    So, “ladies,” assuming that you’re that rare unicorn who is capable of learning from other people’s idiotic mistakes, consider not looking upon or treating your son as a surrogate for his dad, especially if you trash-talk the dad he loves. Pray that just hating your guts is the nicest thing he’ll do to you.”

    Wow, Feeriker. This is so true. Both sons and daughters need their father, but sons in particular. Our sons are wonderful, great kids. I’m incredibly blessed, but I know they’d be very different without a strong, positive male influence in the home.
    Especially when adolescence hits and they start to “man” out (which is a very interesting thing to see, the transformation from boy to man). My husband is away pretty frequently but without him I can’t imagine what it would be like. Even when we’ve had our travails and he’s been away, I can call my husband and he will say, “Put (whichever kid) on the phone, I’ll handle this…” And he’s sure to handle it when he gets home.
    Just thinking further, daughters probably need their fathers for that reason too. But I don’t have any daughters.

  101. Dave says:

    This should put the final nail in Lifshitz coffin:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/men-may-never-truly-get-over-a-relationship-breakup-says-study-10450413.html

    I would be extremely wary of any supposed “studies” undertaken by feminists. This particular study sounds like feminist-tainted research to insinuate that men fare worse after a relationship ends. Same way they insist that their studies show a 27-cent gender pay gap, a rape culture, and other “research studies” pulled out of their stinky, feminist infested behinds.
    Any red pill man will move on after an emotionally draining relationship with any of these hags.

  102. Agreed, but it’s an interesting contrast in feminist contradictions.

  103. Minesweeper says:

    @Dave, actually, Its more likely and Im seeing it more and more, the guys are all spent out.

    They are just done, red pill or not. Women in a LTR tend to extract everything from the guy upon leaving. And we know this now. After your 1st asset strip, the next one seems even more unappealing.

    We now know the deal to be far worse than what we ever imagined. My last LTR was quite nice, I have to say. Amongst her friends, she was prob the only with a guy (they were all in their 40’s). And they looked on very enviously as well.

    The only guys from this age that have remarried have gone significantly younger like 12+ years. But the ones that did remarry (even to much younger) are utterly stupid and obviously havn’t been punished enough the 1st time round.

    “A lesson is repeated until it is learned.”

  104. Mistral says:

    Something like this happened to a buddy of mine. Wife leaves, he starts dating, she get pissed and whines at him (reality finally appearing to a 43 y.o. single mother of 3). Him: “What am I supposed to do? Sit in a corner and cry for the rest of my life?”

    Fast forward a few months, she’s making overtures about “taking him back” and he’s the Mayor of Bootytown. What is so surprising is how shocked she was at his post-divorce success. Women who spent too much time watching “Whores in the City” never seem to get it that that painful impact that they felt at 30-25 was The Wall…..

  105. GeminiXcX says:

    @Looking Glass.

    You are absolutely correct in my misread.

    In fact, I had thought about it again later that night (after having shut down). It hit me that I likely made a terrible interpretation of your words. This has been on my mind throughout today, and I was to make sure to come back in here to address it.

    I sincerely apologize for going off inappropriately on you like that.

    -GeminiXcX

  106. Looking Glass says:

    @GeminiXcX:

    Apology accepted. I’ve done my fair share of “too tired, responded, what did I just read?” comments over the years on the Internet.

    God bless.

  107. Kate Minter says:

    Striver: The “red pill” does not mean you can redo your past. If you like literature, you may recognize the main theme of The Great Gatsby as the inability to go back and recapture what has already happened. However, it is within your power to have a different and better future. Without stating that divorce is a good thing, I do want to offer you some hope that a happy second marriage is not out of the question- even later in life.

    Yes, it would have been better for everything to have gone well the first time, but I think if you are wise about it (and understand second marriage is de facto polygamy) there is a good chance you can have quite a good second round. As far as the optimism, well, it isn’t necessary to be optimistic so much as realistic. My husband and I have this idea of “the commitment supremacy,” which basically means that the commitment we each have is to the marriage itself as an entity. Naturally, we are also committed to each other as people, but the commitment to the institution itself is supreme. After our divorces, we both met people who gave all the signs of commitment to us personally, but were not- for whatever reason- willing to commit to committing.

    I think it rare that a person goes into a marriage thinking, well, if it doesn’t work out we can just get divorced. Everybody thinks they are making good choices going into the marriage. But, with a better understanding of men and women’s motivations and drives, it is now actually possible for us to make the good choices we previously thought we were making.

    “So what now?” Well, when you are ready and interested, you’ll try again after careful screening of candidates and go into it with your eyes wide open about all the pitfalls. If you don’t want more children, you look only for women who already have their own (it is my personal belief that you should look for a woman with a young daughter, as she is most likely to be accepting of you- avoid women with teenaged sons as it would likely bring you continual conflict) and she should have her “house” in order.

    Part of life is pain, yes, but it’s up to you what you choose to make from it. It ain’t over!🙂

  108. Minesweeper says:

    @Katie, “(it is my personal belief that you should look for a woman with a young daughter”

    Absolutely, unbelievably terrible advice.

  109. Dale says:

    From Minesweeper re Katie: “Absolutely, unbelievably terrible advice.”

    +1. Some men may not mind having to forgo children of their own and also have to invest resources, stress and time in someone else’s children. But many men want their own children. Plus, many divorced women seem unable/unwilling to discipline their children, to which Katie alluded.

  110. Minesweeper says:

    @Dale, its not just that, even a hint of impropriety from a older male to a non-blood relative young female will either land you 10 years in jail or even a killing.

    Plenty of men are inside over a young girls lies. The power the law has given them is almost unimaginable. And they will use it without consequence even against their own father.

    My last LTR had a mid teen daughter and it freaked me the hell out knowing how she could destroy me, I spent most of my time avoiding her like the plague. If they can’t put you in the same place+time, then you might have a chance of survival against a malicious allegation.

    For a conviction, no evidence is required. Just an allegation.

  111. Micha Elyi says:

    Laura Lifshitz is back, riffing on the Women Always Have It Worse narrative.

    Remember, if the circumstances were reversed–if a study showed women moved on after a heartbreak long before men do–that too would prove to wimminists that Women Always Have It Worse.

    Reject her narrative.

  112. Kirk says:

    Aren’t you all tired of reading her garbage as though she is the only woman going through divorce with a child. Both her and her ex- husband ( by the way, not divorced yet, ) first of all , made a big mistake- having a child brought into their world especially since they were having problems from the start.even though LL continually puts the reason for their messed up marriage as the fault of her MIL, but LL never goes into details about how she treated her MIL and perhaps that is why their relationship ( her and her MIL ) never took off on good footing, it’s always someone else’s fault, never hers. Every time one reads these blogs, it is disturbing very disturbing….a narcissistic incarnate .
    So live with your mistakes, she should stop ranting on and on as in previous posts about how awful her ex was ( again, she’s not divorced yet, but the day is approaching as she indicates in various posts) .She needs to put her big girl boots on and deal with this and stop putting the blame on others. Be accountable for what you didn’t do to save your marriage from its final destination.

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