Beta GIGO

The Daily Mail has a story up about a new (in development) app called HeroBoyfriend.  The app is born from the developer’s experience of being blindsided by a breakup with a woman who clearly wasn’t into him from the very beginning:

We met on the beach in Philip Island, New Years Eve 2002. She told me she was from Zimbabwe and I believed her. She spoke with this funny accent which I later learned was an in-joke between girlfriends. It was a way to tease would-be suitors like myself. She was captivating. Tall, dark with amazing brown eyes. I could tell she was creative and probably complex. I fell for her straight away.

It took 6 weeks before she agreed to go on a date with me.

The most surprising part of the story is that she stayed with him for twelve years.

In early 2014 I quit my job as a successful lawyer and launched a startup. Within 3 months my 12 year relationship with the girl of my dreams was dead. The girl I thought I would grow old with was now “my ex”, and I was left trying to make sense of the broken pieces. This my story of how it happened, what I learned and why I started HeroBoyfriend.com

Not surprisingly the app is designed to build a better beta.  From the press section of the app’s website:

HeroBoyfriend, you don’t have to treat her mean to keep her keen.

Mobile application begins enlisting applicants for the private beta of its boyfriend improvement (girlfriend retention) service.

Ouch.

Not all of the advice is bad, as it does recommend exercising regularly and dressing well.  But most of it is as cringworthy as you would expect from an app born of beta confusion and desperation.

I suspect the app will do well as it is selling conventional wisdom.  They can also count on a good deal of free advertising both from papers like the Mail and via social media.

Related:  Romance 101:  How to stop frustrating your wife.

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194 Responses to Beta GIGO

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  3. Spike says:

    Mr Groch may have the world’s best intentions, as do a variety of men’s journalists who write “Building a Better Bloke” articles for their newspapers and even publish books.
    The problem with all of them is that they demand men put all of the effort into half of the problem. They fail completely to address women’s hypergamy and this is what is responsible for the majority of breakups.

    It was Rollo Tomassi (I think) who once said that men should make their own plans, forge their own lives, improve themselves (career, family, training , weights, courses – it could be anything) separate and apart form the influence of women, even women as close as their wives ( I would add”, “Especially your wife”). If the woman of your life conforms with your plans, good. If not, let her go. This, known as “Neomasculinity” by the media for wont of a better term, is the only thing that works.

    What is disturbing is that it is yet another article from Australia. We seem to be the unfortunate nest from which all feminist ideas seem to spring from these days.

  4. Boxer says:

    Dear Dalrock:

    This seems like just the latest emanation of an ongoing trend toward outsourcing every human excellence to a machine, in order to live as leisurely (and as worthless) a life as possible. Note apple’s new fitness app, which controls what you eat and how often you exercise via the iPhone, and etc. Who needs exercise or self-improvement, when we can just download something and elaborately pretend to be better people, all while lying to ourselves?

    We are entering Baudrillard’s simulacra on ever increasing fronts. If we had a limitless amount of energy, I’d predict people plugging themselves into a computer en masse, at some point, to live simulated lives entirely, a la the matrix.

    Best,

    Boxer

  5. John Nesteutes says:

    Same situation up here in the other Deranged Dominion – we’re a lot more post Christian than America, and it shows.

    We need God and we need actual church.

  6. JDG says:

    @John Nesteutes

    Canada?

  7. My first instinct was to laugh when reading the article, but then I felt sad for the men who will be taking this crap seriously.

  8. GeminiXcX says:

    “The most surprising part of the story is that she stayed with him for twelve years.”
    Is it really that unbelievable, D?. . .

    “In early 2014 I quit my job as a successful lawyer and launched a startup. Within 3 months my 12 year relationship with the girl of my dreams was dead.”
    Not surprising at all. From everything I gather from his personal story, she was only with him for his money.
    By pursuing his ‘startup’ goals, the guaranteed large paycheck from being a “successful lawyer” (which she benefitted from) was gone.

    When he ceased to constantly pay her to be his permanent escort, she moved on.

    Me wonders if/how-long the type of man that actually produced the tingle was getting “gifts” from her, before she just completely severed it with Bbux?

    -GXcX

  9. “After our first date I knew she was something special. And the past 6 months of dazzling dates proved it. We’ve ridden into the sunset together, been hot air ballooning, played croquet, drank Flaming Negroni’s at Melbourne’s best cocktail bar and organised romantic scavenger hunts for each other.”

    OMG, this is insane! The hoops this guy is jumping through thinking he can keep a woman happy by keeping her in a state of perpetual novelty! Wow, he’s really setting himself up for an even bigger heartbreak.

    “HeroBoyfriend makes it simple for guys to:
    * surprise her with creative dates
    * remind her you love her with thoughtful gifts
    * remember what it’s important to her, and
    * always know the right things to say and do”

    Yes, this is cringeworthy. He’s going through the list of lies all men were programmed with by every female in his environment since they were young. If he doesn’t reach the point of tapped out resources, he may burn out and crash at the first hint of ingratitude from this chick. Yikes.

  10. GeminiXcX says:

    Apparently Groch has a new girl. He is buying this one off with money as well. Couple the current $$ being given to his new escort, with her obvious knowledge of this. . .

    “Mr Groch’s epiphany was valuable in more ways than one, as the company is currently in discussions with US-based angel investors and is aiming to close its $1 million in first round funding.”. . .

    I’m sure she “loves” him too.

    I wonder how long until he actually marries this one, only to discover she banged the chef at the lavish reception I guarantee Groch will give her, because real men spoil their women rotten.

    The old blog of “TheNoNonsense Man” would be a useful app for this guy and his ‘unlucky in love’ potential customers.

    It’s unfortunate, because he looks like he genuinely wants to do what he *feels* is right — and that will be his downfall.

    I remember a dark time in my life when I once “reasoned” like him. It still haunts me to this day.

    -GXcX

  11. GeminiXcX says:

    In the linked website that has the tragedy, er, story. . .

    The sh*t-test comment by “Appley” will guarantee a future divorce for almost any couple. (Unless the woman is *devoutly* religious; which in that case she’ll stay with him — even be ‘unadulterous’ — but despise him every waking moment.)

    -GXcX

  12. srsly says:

    Somehow, I’m sure this perpetuates rape culture.

  13. Someone should write a book for men, “She’s Just Not That Into You”.
    If you need a new, thrilling date idea every week, she’s just not that into you…

  14. Julian O'Dea says:

    “She told me she was from Zimbabwe and I believed her. She spoke with this funny accent which I later learned was an in-joke between girlfriends. It was a way to tease would-be suitors like myself.”

    Now that would have been “Goodbye, Sweetie” from me.

  15. MarcusD says:

    @Boxer

    “If we had a limitless amount of energy, I’d predict people plugging themselves into a computer en masse, at some point, to live simulated lives entirely, a la the matrix.”

    The market for VR headsets is getting bigger every day.

    Here’s a video from E3 (last week): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIl2-5f8NTo

  16. Signor Farfalla says:

    @Gemini,

    He gives up his lawyer income for a startup and then she goes all “Meep Meep” roadrunner on him. That jumped off the page for me also. She stuck around for three months to see if the startup exploded, as he likely thought it would/dreamed about. When it stalled, she was just gone. He couldn’t see that? It was all because he didn’t surprise her with Hello Kitty keychains at random times, frisbee golf dates, and flower bouquets adoringly propped up against the cheetos box in the pantry for her 11 am TV/graze-fest (while he works). The whole thing read like some brilliant parody done by one of the top manosphere talents.

    GROSS, GRODY.

    The pedestalization is so ingrained.

  17. Signor Farfalla says:

    “She told me she was from Zimbabwe and I believed her. She spoke with this funny accent which I later learned was an in-joke between girlfriends. It was a way to tease would-be suitors like myself.”

    What would the joke be there? I don’t get why that would be funny among her and her girlfriends. What’s the humor?

    All I glean from that is an example of how utterly swamped a presumably attractive girl with suitors. Like a telemarketer blabbing all day to people who plays with some childish alter-ego just for some kind of tiny spark of amusement in the face of complete boredom.

  18. Julian O'Dea says:

    Signor Farfalla, I understand why she did it. And that is why if a girl had done that to me, I would have “nexted” her, as they say, as soon as I found out.

    She and her girlfriends had developed a contempt for the probably numerous men who were interested in them. This is how they expressed it.

    They were being bitches.

    The only thing I don’t get is why she kept him around for so long.

    As for his commercialising his experience, I wonder if he is quite that clueless. He wouldn’t be the first man who was conned who turned the con around and used it himself.

  19. Tam the Bam says:

    “I could tell she was creative and probably complex.”
    Round by here, that’s SWPL office/gastropub code for “completely barking”.
    As in “skilled liar, probably schizophrenic” (not necessarily a red flag in their lines of work, e.g. banking, real estate, the City etc.) Is that what he’s getting at?

  20. MarcusD says:

    ‘Men had to step up’: Study finds ‘significant’ spike in number of stay-at-home dads in Canada
    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/study-finds-significant-spike-in-number-of-stay-at-home-dads-men-had-to-step-up

  21. greyghost says:

    What a stroke of luck that guy to have his chick step off like that. He wasn’t even married to her and didn’t have kids with her. That guy just doesn’t know how many bullets he dodged.

  22. Opus says:

    I see that he is being crucified in the comment section.

    Dalrock however thinks that some of the advice is not bad. Dalrock encourages men not merely to dress well but to exercise regularly. This must be an American thing. One of the first things that surprised me when I landed in America was to see men – and women – jogging in Washington’s Mall – obviously on a fifteen minute break from work. On a previous thread we learned how American men train in the Gym to get abs and pecs. American Football (so far as I can tell) requires a lot of Upper Body and Arm strength. The rest of the world play Soccer which does not so require, though it develops very strong legs, the ability to turn on a sixpence, intelligence and ball-skill and consists in running non-stop for ninety minutes with only a five minute break – the rest is theory. I had always assumed that kicking a ball was an intrinsic human skill – but when I was up in Chicago I had the painful – to watch – experience of observing that that is not the case. As it happens I played until I was thirty-four, when I hung up my boots ceasing to be a registered player with the F.A. but I did not do that to get fit or indeed attract women (you never saw a woman spectator); I did it because I was utterly passionate about getting out there two or three times a week whatever the weather to play the beautiful game (or train so as to be able to do so). I did not need a Title IX to encourage me. I was fit but I did not have a six-pack any more than did any of my team-mates.

    The guys who were pulling chicks did not or not necessarily play sport; all they had to do was walk into a room, and neither did they dress unusually well.

    Messi? – never heard of her.

  23. Julian O'Dea says:

    Tam the Bam, I would translate “creative and complex” into “takes pottery classes and does drugs”.

    Another one I always like is “free-spirited”, which translates to “slutty and lazy”.

  24. theasdgamer says:

    OMG, this is insane! The hoops this guy is jumping through thinking he can keep a woman happy by keeping her in a state of perpetual novelty!

    It also hits the PUAs. YaReally is advocating to give women massive emotional roller coaster rides in clubs. I think that that will merely make women jaded. I think that a better strategy is massive aloofness and a little surprising playfulness. Subtlety.

  25. theasdgamer says:

    @ seriouslyserving

    Someone should write a book for men, “She’s Just Not That Into You”.
    If you need a new, thrilling date idea every week, she’s just not that into you…

    The book needs a more-marketable title like “What to do if you suspect she’s cheating”.

    Mrs. Gamer and I do new stuff because I get bored with the same ol, same ol. She’s happy if she’s with me.

  26. greyghost says:

    Theasdgamer
    Big deal jade her. Make her easy to spot for the marriage minded.

  27. theasdgamer says:

    Marriage minded in clubs? No sense jading women who might not be P&Ds if left unjaded.

  28. Signor Farfalla says:

    @greyghost,

    Yeah, he dodged one bullet but bullet number two is on the way. Especially if he makes some coin from his app. This second girl looks like she will EPL his ass within 5-8 years.

    And the guy who took his girl out to shop for shoes while he kneels and slips them on her. Oh, man. I was as wrong about women as this guy was but I wasn’t from the information age. Spend a damn afternoon learning stuff online. Like TFH has stated; the expiration date is up. Guys need to have some clue. Don’t include dopes like this on your own “Team Man.” Forget those guys.

  29. Cane Caldo says:

    @Julian

    Tam the Bam, I would translate “creative and complex” into “takes pottery classes and does drugs”.

    Another one I always like is “free-spirited”, which translates to “slutty and lazy”.

    Exactly so.

  30. feeriker says:

    “She’s Just Not That Into You”

    This really should be every man’s default assunption about every woman he ever meets, unless she’s sending IOIs that make the opposite too obvious to ignore (e.g., she showers him with gifts, favors, etc.).

  31. Signor Farfalla says:

    I could imagine Sheryl Sandberg (once she’s done grieving…) would jump all over this app idea and really back it. They could add on the married version of this app. making betas attend their lordships just like butlers 24-7.

    I’m so glad I’m overseas and immoral.

  32. Julian O'Dea says:

    “I think that a better strategy is massive aloofness and a little surprising playfulness. Subtlety.”

    Sheldon Cooper Game.

  33. Julian O'Dea says:

    “And the guy who took his girl out to shop for shoes while he kneels and slips them on her.”

    Oh, please no.

  34. Signor Farfalla says:

    Yeah Julian,

    Check the article. Photo three or four maybe.

  35. Signor Farfalla says:

    Moby’s new girlfriend has EPL face for sure.

  36. Phillyastro says:

    I’m creating an Omega Male app that links the user directly to the Call of Duty game, pornography, and a Doritos delivery service.

  37. Anonymous Reader says:

    If Apple buys this startup, they simply must rename the app.

    Obviously it is iBeta.

  38. Gunner Q says:

    Opus @ 4:42 am:
    “Dalrock however thinks that some of the advice is not bad. Dalrock encourages men not merely to dress well but to exercise regularly. This must be an American thing.”

    Sometime in the 1980s, the American Dream shifted from “career, family, house” to “do everything by pushing a button”. We work against that trend.

    Seriously, America is so wired that just making friends off-line can require way more effort than it should. More than a few Americans have forgotten the importance of a good first impression. Our schools do not, to put it mildly, teach social skills anymore.

  39. “What is disturbing is that it is yet another article from Australia. We seem to be the unfortunate nest from which all feminist ideas seem to spring from these days.”

    It’s like “Invasion of the Body Snatchers” – they’ll get to you eventually.

  40. Joe says:

    @Opus: “American Football (so far as I can tell) requires a lot of Upper Body and Arm strength. The rest of the world play Soccer which does not so require, though it develops very strong legs, the ability to turn on a sixpence, intelligence and ball-skill and consists in running non-stop for ninety minutes with only a five minute break – the rest is theory.”

    The women’s version of soccer is relatively popular in the US because the players play the game straight, they don’t fall down and cry like bitches when somebody looks at them funny.

  41. John Nesteutes says:

    Elizabeth Gilbert has finally come out and admitted what she is: an adulteress, addicted to the thrill of seducing men.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/magazine/confessions-of-a-seduction-addict.html

    Confessions of a Seduction Addict

  42. Cane Caldo says:

    @J Nest

    Excellent find.

  43. Opus says:

    @Joe

    I imagine that watching women play Soccer is a little like watching paint dry, but not as interesting. I have never seen it myself.

  44. theasdgamer says:

    Sheldon Cooper Game. Bullseye. And Amy Farrah Fowler is the target. Or Mrs. Gamer, who was a whoooole lot prettier than AFF, back in the day.

    Truthfully, Sheldon Cooper is as subtle as a brick. And he doesn’t sexualize at all, that I can see.

  45. theasdgamer says:

    “creative and complex = “takes pottery classes and does drugs”.

    or

    “listens to NPR, does EPL, and has children by three different baby daddies.”

  46. A Regular Guy says:

    @ J Nest

    It’s incredible the depths of evil women are capable of sinking too only to be exalted as a cultural icon. Modern women, despite being very socially sensitive creatures, have zero shame! My God…

  47. greyghost says:

    OT big time but check out this turd. Ann had to go off on his Christianity. Churchianship at its finest

  48. PokeSalad says:

    Elizabeth Gilbert has finally come out and admitted what she is: an adulteress, addicted to the thrill of seducing men.

    She only admits (sorta) her ‘problem’ now because the Wall is about to hit her at terminal velocity.

    “Where have all the good men gone?” = “Why did men stop paying attention to me?”

  49. Boxer says:

    Elizabeth Gilbert has finally come out and admitted what she is: an adulteress, addicted to the thrill of seducing men.

    I’m shocked, as I’m sure John (and everyone else on Dalrock) is, at this revelation. Nothing in her trashy written work would ever have pointed to this artifact of her personality.

    Perhaps TFH could opine on this example (888) of women not really understanding themselves, principles of cause and effect, etc.

  50. Neguy says:

    Someone I know just posted on social media about how husbands divorcing wives and abandoning kids causes so much damage. Yet this very guy was previously married and his wife got knocked up by another man during an affair, and after he offered to forgive her she divorced him. The Stockholm Syndrome most men exhibit is beyond ridiculous, though I have to admit I myself used to too often think this way.

  51. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Opus: “Dalrock encourages men not merely to dress well but to exercise regularly. This must be an American thing.”

    I think it’s more of a coastal thing. The coastal cities of the U.S. tend to be more health-oriented. But Americans between the coasts — what some derisively call “Flyover Country” — have a reputation for being obese.

    It’s not entirely true. I’ve seen obese people in Los Angeles. I’m sure not everyone in the Midwest or Deep South fails to exercise. But I think the obsession with Looking Good! Feeling Good! IS more of a coastal thing.

  52. The Question says:

    @Dalrock
    Apologies if this isn’t a relevant comment to the story above, but didn’t know how else to send this your way. Another column at the Huffington Post by a carousel-rider; thought it might be worthy of a Dalrock post. http://huff.to/1NahsbJ

    Choice quote:
    “I’m 22. I have too many stupid decisions to make before I decide my fate. I have the rest of my life to find the guy who gives love a whole new meaning for me.”

    [D: Thanks.]

  53. MarcusD says:

    @greyghost

    Fr. Albert Cutie taking the easy way once again, agreeing with everyone in the room for his show rather than facing a hard truth. And Ann Coulter, in her always kind manner, dropping the “Who’s the Christian here?” on him. Oof.

    Fr. Cutie was a priest who had his own talk show and was kind of a big deal until he got caught on the beach with a woman (if you know what I mean). Then, he left the priesthood and joined the Episcopal Church, I believe, where he’s resumed his road to stardom and publicly criticized the Catholic Church for its rules about celibacy.

    Ann is right in that children do better with mothers and fathers. That’s not an attack on single mothers. It’s a fact that our culture doesn’t want to accept but it’s a fact nonetheless.

    http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2011/07/ann-coulter-vs-fr-albert.html

  54. Anonymous Reader says:

    Fr. Albert Cutie taking the easy way once again, agreeing with everyone in the room for his show rather than facing a hard truth. And Ann Coulter, in her always kind manner, dropping the “Who’s the Christian here?” on him.

    Meh. Too 20th century. Thanks to a bunch of SJW infiltration the word “Christian” is at the same time a big tent covering every nonensical idea any one can come up with, and yet narrowminded, bigoted, hatefilled. So the answer to Colter is probably something like “Mooo!”.

  55. Just Saying says:

    you don’t have to treat her mean to keep her keen.

    There are two ways to keep a woman keen on you – both involves a very simple concept – she cares more about being in a relationship with you, then you do with her. That is the foundation of all relationships that work. All of the “advice” women give is to put her in control of a relationship – that is a disaster. A woman with no control of the relationship she is in, is a happy, and horny woman. It really is that simple. So take the advice of women like you would take poison – just don’t do it…

  56. Anonymous Reader says:

    Speakin of HeroBoyfriend, here in all its 80’s synthesizer stuffed, whip-cracking goodness is the relevant Bonnie Tyler video:

    AWALT

  57. theasdgamer says:

    Chasing wife, happy life!

  58. Looking Glass says:

    Being in good shape is simply good for you. You have a long life and being out of shape early in life is going to lead to a lot of complications going forward. There’s nothing wrong with that advice.

  59. Julian O'Dea says:

    Sheldon spanks Amy:

  60. Striver says:

    Just Saying:

    “There are two ways to keep a woman keen on you – both involves a very simple concept – she cares more about being in a relationship with you, then you do with her. That is the foundation of all relationships that work.”

    Well, in the beginning she cared more about the relationship. But this can happen of course. She will not tell you this is happening, of course.

    In the end, to care less I would have had to blow up the family with three children. I find such behavior grossly immoral. Wasn’t a problem for her, though. She won that round, I guess.

  61. Striver says:

    In the original story here, looks like he must have been 20 when they met. I’m guessing she was around the same age, give or take. Of course, given the ages, if she was attractive at all, her SMP value far exceeded his. That’s why he has to beg for a date for six weeks, while she and her girlfriends feel free to laugh at their suitors.

    Women are simply trying to take their maximum SMP value, sometime in their teens, and walk it out to the grave if possible. Given the circumstances, I suppose I can hardly blame them. Can’t blame the master for whipping the slave if slavery is fully legal. By the time they met, she and her girlfriends had gotten 6-8 good solid years of validation of their attractiveness, while he has gotten the opposite. Freely traded sex makes for bad sexual relations.

  62. GeminiXcX says:

    ‘Anonymous Reader on June 25, 2015 at 10:39 am
    If Apple buys this startup, they simply must rename the app.

    Obviously it is iBeta.’

    iPadawoman’sbankaccount ?

    ‘The Question on June 25, 2015 at 3:33 pm
    http://huff.to/1NahsbJ

    The “Beth” creature in this link seems to be an exceptionally charming individual.

    I also did a background-check in her personal blog (‘thisisyourdestiny.com’, or something like that).

    Unfortunately, I read your link before being aware of all the lol treasures contained within.

    It requires a recliner, good cogniac, along with blazing up a fine cigar, to enjoy to it’s maxumum potential.

    -GXcX

  63. GeminiXcX says:

    ‘John Nesteutes on June 25, 2015 at 11:55 am
    Elizabeth Gilbert has finally come out and admitted what she is: an adulteress, addicted to the thrill of seducing men.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/magazine/confessions-of-a-seduction-addict.html

    “I might indeed win the man eventually. But over time (and it wouldn’t take long), his unquenchable infatuation for me would fade, as his attention returned to everyday matters. This always left me feeling abandoned and invisible; love that could be quenched was not nearly enough love for me. As soon as I could, then, I would start seducing somebody else, by turning myself into an entirely different woman, in order to attract an entirely different man.”

    You’re not a “seductress”, my dear. You offered free p*ssy, and the guys used you until they got bored; you have no magical powers or “skills”.

    -GXcX

  64. Boxer says:

    Dear Marcus:

    The market for VR headsets is getting bigger every day.

    It’s sorta frightening to realize how many people will find that appealing.

    Boxer

  65. Boxer says:

    Dear Gemini:

    You’re not a “seductress”, my dear. You offered free p*ssy, and the guys used you until they got bored; you have no magical powers or “skills”.

    She’s an attention whore. The playas on this forum know well the type. This type of ho’ is all “into you” until they hook you (with or without sex), at which point the attention whore has her ego boost, and she moves on to someone else.

    Such women practice an annoying form of emotional vampirism, and my theory is that this specific type has driven the rise of “same night lay” hookup culture. (i.e. men responded by demanding immediate sex, which is generally given, since they know that there’s no relationship or future — or even a second date — with such a ho’).

    Regards,

    Boxer

  66. Boxer says:

    Dear Striver:

    In the end, to care less I would have had to blow up the family with three children. I find such behavior grossly immoral. Wasn’t a problem for her, though. She won that round, I guess.

    It only seems like she won that round, and that only for a few dollars (I assume). In reality, she went from the honorable wife Mrs. Striver, mother of three legitimate children, to a nameless skank-ho single mom down the street, with three bastard kids. This happened immediately, in the moment that the faggot family court judge signed off on the divorce decree.

    She knows this better than anyone else, though she probably realized it after it was over. (You can tell these wimminz know their place, even though they’ll never admit as much, just by the sour ass looks on their dried out faces).

    She lost the only chance at true happiness and fulfillment than a woman has, and she’ll never get another chance at it. Good riddance to that ho’. Sorry about your kids.

    Regards,

    Boxer

  67. MarcusD says:

    Any Young Catholics in France?
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=966769

    Comment #2: “But despite what some say, I think American women are the most desirable of all the world’s women.”

    (And yes, Ridgerunner is exactly the kind of guy you’d expect him to be…)

  68. Julian O'Dea says:

    MarcusD, perhaps they are the most (physically) desirable.

    If only someone would invent a paper bag that would go over a personality.

    Check out this girl being all “sassy”:

  69. Opus says:

    When I was in the land of First and Ten, I used to pin on the Office Notice Board, the (usually successful) results of your national Soccer team – not that anyone seemed to care or notice, nor notice the fact that in the world rankings – out of just over two hundred teams, Team America is rated about fourteenth. In other words in World Rankings you are more than a Soccer force to be reckoned with. Your team usually reaches the finals of The World Cup and it is with great embarrassment to have acknowledge that America has twice beaten England [for Soccer we are Quadrophenic and divide Britain into her four unequal parts] in that competition, the first such embarrassing occasion being in Belo Horizonte in 1950 when the host nation was Brazil. Perhaps, one might think, your lack of interest in Soccer stems form that unfortunate business in 1776, yet countries loyal to the crown such as Australia and Canada are not great soccer nations being respectively strong in Rugby and Ice Hockey. Soccer is predominantly a European/South American speciality,

    In England there are in The Football League some eighty entirely professional teams and beneath that semi-professional teams and each town will have its amateur teams divided into copious leagues. Women however are just not interested; why get dirty when you can go shopping. It might be that in the days of young marriage and young motherhood it was simply impractical for women to play, but women were not interested in watching either. The organisation of a league is a straight-forward matter requiring little expenditure, and thus, lower female wages can simply not be regarded as an adequate explanation for women’s non-performance at Soccer. The big split in Soccer is not however as between the sexes but between the classes, for Soccer is seen as a blue-collar game. If you are white-collar you are supposed to play Rugby Union [not to be confused with the similar but professional Rugby League only played in the north] and Rugby Union looks to my eyes very much like American football but without the armour and is what the middle-classes are supposed to play. Rugger players tend to be large ungainly males whereas Soccer players are better proportioned. Soccer players also have the reputation for being stupid and mono-syllabic – see The Python’s interview of soccer-player ‘Jimmy Buzzard’. When I went to boarding school kicking a round ball was a caning offence, The only ball to be played with had to oblong and thrown. Did girls play sport? Whilst at school my Mother played La Crosse which strikes me as a very brutal game and her school team would travel along the south coast of England – when not themselves being visited – of a Saturday and play the teams of other posh (fee-paying) girl schools such as Roedean. One thus notices then that this drive to persuade women to play sport emanates form the elite – and not from grass roots – and is not of recent vintage.

    How strange then that the game we call rounders played entirely by girlies is pretty much the same as your Baseball.

  70. gg,

    OT big time but check out this turd. Ann had to go off on his Christianity. Churchianship at its finest

    I’ve posted that youtube here before, what annoyed me the most about it is that the Priest wasn’t even listening to her. He totally dismissed all her data points and made every personal with his audience. He should not have done that.

  71. MarcusD says:

    “If only someone would invent a paper bag that would go over a personality.”

    I can’t remember who said it, but hardship would do enough to correct the flaws consistently reinforced in Western culture.

    (That said, Ridgerunner (being who he is), is certainly referring to the “whole package.”)

    Physically speaking, France seems like a good bet for the OP. For example, this map: http://www.downeyobesityreport.com/wp-content/uploads//Global_BMI_Females_20081.png

  72. Julian O'Dea says:

    Australia is not bad at soccer. We have occasionally performed well internationally. The game developed after the Second World War with the influx of southern Europeans, each group supporting a local team. So I remember being intrigued as a small boy by teams in Melbourne with names like J.U.S.T. (a Balkans team, so to speak), Juventus and Melbourne Hellas.

    And here in Canberra, we had “Croatia Deakin” until such ethnic names were banned.

    We also have our own code of football, Australian football, which is very popular in some states.

    We also have Rugby Union and Rugby League. And Cricket of course.

    Baseball is not big in Australia, although there is a local ground here. The late Don Lane tried to get Australians interested in American football, but the game is not popular.

    As for women’s sport, Australia had its “Golden Girls”, female sprinters, and other successful women in track events, and swimming. I remember seeing collector cards of their exploits in boxes of breakfast cereal as a boy. Please note the date of this woman’s achievement, 1958:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Cuthbert

    All done without a “Title IX” in Australia in the 1950s.

  73. Julian O'Dea says:

    By the way, MarcusD, that citation you gave apparently showing that only one woman in a thousand has the upper-body strength of the average man is amazing. That is one fact that really takes some absorbing.

  74. MarcusD says:

    “By the way, MarcusD, that citation you gave apparently showing that only one woman in a thousand has the upper-body strength of the average man is amazing. That is one fact that really takes some absorbing.”

    Yes, it really is quite remarkable.

    Here’s the footnote itself:

    Lassek, William D., and Steven JC Gaulin. “Costs and benefits of fat-free muscle mass in men: relationship to mating success, dietary requirements, and native immunity.” Evolution and Human Behavior 30.5 (2009): 322-328.

    And the paper as PDF: http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/sites/secure.lsit.ucsb.edu.anth.d7/files/sitefiles/people/gaulin/Lassek%20%26%20Gaulin_muscle%20mass.pdf

  75. Julian O'Dea says:

    MarcusD, it is simply incredible. Men are far stronger in the upper body, and as the paper implies this is achieved at the cost of much greater dietary intake and high testosterone reducing immune capacity.

    One suggestion I have read is that, prehistorically, men engaged in a lot of mutual fighting, perhaps over women.

    On the other hand, I have argued here that there is evidence that men did not hit women much, because women’s skulls do not show the robust bony protection seen in men’s skulls:

    https://www.academia.edu/12006738/Little_violence_against_women_prehistorically

    Women have (relatively) strong legs. Perhaps because they have to carry children during pregnancies. This should make them fairly competent as soccer players, together with the relative shortness of their legs and their bodily flexibility. (Many excellent male soccer players are not big men.) I wonder if women soccer players “head” the ball much, given their less robust skulls. I suppose it will not be travelling very fast when they do. I have read that male soccer players get brain damage from too much “heading” the ball.

  76. D says:

    What I noticed is that the guy was an Alpha Asshole, everything in his description once he got the first date was about him; moves, education, job changes, etc. When he decided to leave his high-paying job to found a start-up, she gave up on him, after he wasted 12 years of her best child-bearing years. While few guys need his “Be a Beta” app, he is one of them. (Oh, and needed to grow up, marry the girl, and have children).

  77. Julian O'Dea says:

    D, I think you may be correct. I wrote above:

    “The only thing I don’t get is why she kept him around for so long.

    As for his commercialising his experience, I wonder if he is quite that clueless. He wouldn’t be the first man who was conned who turned the con around and used it himself.”

    I was bothered by her “teasing” use of a made-up accent and her not letting him “date” her for several weeks.

    But she stayed with him for 12 years. Surely she wanted him for more than “arm candy”. (Although I did know one engagement that lasted 15 years, because the woman kept him waiting.)

    There is something that doesn’t add up.

    He certainly seems to be a man with “an eye to the main chance” as they used to say. His profession and self-description sounds like an “alpha asshole” and his description of his new relationship sounds phoney. I think he is trying to market his app.

  78. Novaseeker says:

    not that anyone seemed to care or notice, nor notice the fact that in the world rankings – out of just over two hundred teams, Team America is rated about fourteenth. In other words in World Rankings you are more than a Soccer force to be reckoned with.

    The younger generations of more feminine, effete, pro-Europeanization of the US, etc., “males” are more into soccer than older generations of American men. I actually don’t mind soccer, having lived in Europe for years in the past, where the soccer culture is more masculine and acceptable (if often largely working class). The soccer culture here is effete and feminine, which is both why most serious male athletes go into other sports and why it is becoming more popular among the younger set as the males become more feminized (and why women’s soccer is almost about as popular as men’s soccer is – it seems appropriate for the sport, in terms of its supporters in the US).

    Perhaps, one might think, your lack of interest in Soccer stems form that unfortunate business in 1776, yet countries loyal to the crown such as Australia and Canada are not great soccer nations being respectively strong in Rugby and Ice Hockey. Soccer is predominantly a European/South American speciality,

    I think it has more to do with the fact that our own popular sports (football, baseball, basketball) were all being developed in the late 19th century at the same time that soccer was being exported to South America, and they were home-grown, so more indigenous and appropriate for the culture here (as is also the case with hockey in Canada).

  79. Bucho says:

    “The most surprising part of the story is that she stayed with him for twelve years.”

    The upside of her leaving is that she was more than likely past her prime at this point. Maybe he should count this as a blessing in disguise….

  80. J N says:

    @JDG:

    Yes, Canada. If you want to see what’s going to happen to the U.S., look at California, look at Canada, look at the U.K./Australia/New Zealand.

    Today’s Supreme Court ruling should come as no surprise. Mark my words: in 20-30 years, socons and tradcons will have swallowed same-sex marriage hook, line, and sinker just like they have no-fault divorce, remarriage, and “blended families”.

    – John

  81. J N says:

    @Julian O’Dea

    Women moving on from a relationship with an alpha male after 10 – 12 years is not uncommon. It’s a combination of a number of things: extended use of birth control makes a woman desire beta provisioning more than alphatude; the rational takes over long enough that she realises he’s never going to marry her; she starts getting beta-provisioning from someone else and entertains an affair (usually emotional, no sex).

    The woman will still continue to see the prior partner for sex. The romance / love / emotional attachment will be gone.

    I’ve lived through this myself – left scratching my head with why a woman left me after almost a decade, but was perfectly content to hook up whenever I want, whilst at the same time progressing very, very, very slowly towards sex with the other guy she was seeing.

    This lane change usually happens when a woman hits 29 or 30. I’m not sure if we should feel more sorry for the alpha males who get left, or the new beta provisioner who gets to buy a house, 2 cars, an expensive wedding, and in return gets a used-up woman who’s still fine with hooking up with her ex on weekdays.

  82. J N says:

    @greyghost

    Ann seems to have a stronger understanding of Christianity (in the sense of being a follower of Christ) than the guy who allegedly dedicated his life to it, but in reality has a 60% chance he is a homosexual.

  83. My first impression was that this chick is just an attention seeking, validation whore hound. Then I saw this:

    “That’s what I was after: the telekinesis-like sensation of steadily dragging somebody’s fullest attention toward me and only me.”

    This is like shooting ducks in a barrel.

  84. Gunner Q says:

    D @ 7:19 am:
    “What I noticed is that the guy was an Alpha Asshole … When he decided to leave his high-paying job to found a start-up, she gave up on him, after he wasted 12 years of her best child-bearing years.”

    That’s how women respond to Betas, not Alphas. When his provisioning ability dropped, she walked away.

    No Alpha ever wrote “It took 6 weeks before she agreed to go on a date with me”.

    @IBB,

    I did. Of course some PUAs regard “Virgins Going Their Own Way” as damaged or weird, because PUAs are the guys who do whatever it takes to get sex. They obviously aren’t going to approve of an “it’s too dangerous/difficult/unrewarding” mentality.

    I wonder why Matt Forney cares. MGTOWs don’t hurt anybody and he undermines his own case by stating men and women naturally want to be together. That’s true but he doesn’t take the next step of asking why a MGTOW would work against his own instincts like that.

    Most MGTOWs would happily go back to women & society if we were offered a better deal. None of our detractors will acknowledge this.

  85. feeriker says:

    MarcusD, perhaps they are the most (physically) desirable.

    Unless a female version of Jabba the Hutt is your idea of “desirable,” I can only assume that you’ve never seen or interacted with any significant numbers of American women. And that’s before we even get to the topic of their personalities …

  86. J N says:

    @Gunner Q

    He also misses the fact that men who intentionally choose celibacy have often been the ones behind significant social or religious shifts.

    The men with families and kids were either focused on survival, or else were already part of the entrenched elite.

    An army of MGTOWs will eventually have a significant leader or two rise up and actually do something.

    Note that when I say “MGTOW”, I am not referring to the involuntary celibate. I am referring to those who are consciously choosing to opt out of Marriage 2.0, pick-up artistry, one night stands, and settling for a high N count woman with no religious or moral values.

  87. Laura says:

    “We met on the beach in Philip Island, New Years Eve 2002. She told me she was from Zimbabwe and I believed her. She spoke with this funny accent which I later learned was an in-joke between girlfriends. It was a way to tease would-be suitors like myself. She was captivating. Tall, dark with amazing brown eyes. I could tell she was creative and probably complex. I fell for her straight away.

    It took 6 weeks before she agreed to go on a date with me.”

    She lied about being from Zimbabwe, so she is a pathological liar, as she is lying even when there is no benefit to do so. (She was beautiful, and the man was already interested enough to approach her.) She just enjoys being a con artist. She faked a ridiculous accent without caring whether her suitors would feel humiliated when they inevitably later realized that they had been scammed. She is obviously callous/cruel/immature/uncomfortable with her own true identity, or unsure about her own identity. “Captivating,” “creative,” and “complex” combined with dishonesty often mean that a man has sociopathic traits. In a woman, the same traits probably indicate either sociopathic traits or possibly borderline personality disorder, etc. Whatever the eventual diagnosis, this guy should have known very early in his interactions with this woman that she was bad news.

    Very surprising that the relationship lasted twelve years without a wedding ring or children. If the guy thought that she was the girl of his dreams and thought that they would grow old together, why didn’t he marry her? My guess is that on some level, he never really trusted her after the relationship started off with multiple lies.

  88. Retrenched says:

    Pursuing her for six weeks before she finally agreed to a date… signaling beta status there. An alpha would have nexted her after a couple of days, at the very latest. If he would have done that, maybe she would have pursued him, and that would have changed the dynamics of the relationship.

    Sadly he seems to have learned nothing from the experience, and will no doubt make the same mistakes again. He’s trying to figure out what he did wrong, how he screwed up such a perfect relationship, when the whole thing was doomed from the get-go.

    We’re seeing a lot of guys like this in this SMP, men with little experience with women, getting dumped like this and having no idea why it happened. Men who don’t get to experience the raw thrill and joy of a woman truly, desperately wanting to be with them. Or (more likely) they experience it so rarely that they don’t really understand why it happened, so when it finally does they just chalk it up to “getting lucky” or whatever, and they have no idea how they can make it happen again.

    As an aside, you don’t ever read about women trying to improve themselves for men or offer them a better deal, except when it comes to sex. Imagine an app that gave women tips on how to be more feminine, be more supportive of their husbands and boyfriends, be better homemakers, etc… seems unthinkable.

  89. J N says:

    @Retrenched

    The most common thing is to read about a woman “liberated” from trying to improve herself.

  90. theasdgamer says:

    No Alpha ever wrote “It took 6 weeks before she agreed to go on a date with me”.

    Indeed, D is a silly girl.

  91. Opus says:

    Saying that arms are not used in Soccer is a bit like saying wings are not used by birds in flight. A thalidomide victim (someone without arms) would, I venture to suggest, have great difficulty playing Soccer. It is true that I wrote that soccer does not need upper-body or arm strength but that is not entirely true (I was trying to keep it simple). Say there has been a corner or free-kick, and the ball is curling in (at speed); you need to jump and get your head to the ball before one of the opposing team. As you go up you will find that you are making bodily contact with other players If they can manouevre you out of the way in the air with their body (but no pulling) they stand a better chance of obtaining possession the balI. No matter how exciting it may be to watch on television, the visceral experience of playing is perhaps like the difference between listening to a transistor radio and playing in the middle of an orchestra.

    All Indians are Cricket mad: TFH is correct to say that there is risk of serious or fatal injury. The ball coming at you made of cork covered in leather is very hard and is often in the air at speeds of about 100mph. There was a recent fatality, even though these days headgear is worn by batsmen. They wear padding as well on the legs and a box for the crotch. Personally it bores me senseless, but it does require concentration for long periods which is perhaps why it bores me, stuck out there at Third Man the ball never coming ones way, until it does.

    Unless you are English or Indian you will never understand the game, entirely confusing unless brought up with it. To begin with both teams wear exactly the same kit – all white. How is that for apparent confusion.

  92. Mark says:

    @Dalrock

    Great post Dalrock……………….””Not surprisingly the app is designed to build a better beta.””…Great call!….NO THANKS!….l*

    @JN
    “”Same situation up here in the other Deranged Dominion – we’re a lot more post Christian than America, and it shows.
    We need God and we need actual church.””

    Very true my fellow Canuck!…Canada is becoming a VERY dark country.Very atheist,agnostic,liberal and no time for GOD.This will be our downfall!

    @TFH
    “”The Chinese are buying up a lot of land in Australia, and over time, will manage to reshape Australia””

    They are also buying up a lot in Western Canada.Mainly,Alberta(oil) and BC(real estate).

    @MarcusD

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2846299/Bullying-husbands-shout-wives-guilty-domestic-abuse-new-crackdown.html#comments

    Got this sent to me.Arguing with your wife could get you MAX 14 years in the slammer?………….Coming to an Anglo country near you!!!

    Concerning Zimbabwe….known formerly as Rhodesia……used to be the breadbasket of Africa.Then a “useless black moron” by the name of Mugabe came to power and destroyed the country.Apartheid may have not been the best form of rule…..but,the country(same as South Africa) prospered much better than it has under current rule from these two bit socialist dictators like Mugabe and Mandela! Our Friend “Feministhater” is from SA…..I would like to hear his opinion!

  93. Signor Farfalla says:

    That little aside about the fake accent could serve quite well as the one story that encapsulates the whole dynamic between men and women in this era. You could come up with more direct and complete examples, like a divorce case etc, but there is something about a woman using a fake Zimbabwe accent out of sheer boredom (even when being courted by a young lawyer from a wealthy Western culture) that just nails the whole deal. Disrespect, solipsism, childishness, dishonesty, female primacy, dullness, entitlement (she can act like an 8 year idiot to this young lawyer, another international 1 percenter will be along in minutes anyway).

    Also, I wonder if the 12 year ‘relationship’ wasn’t quite that. It took him six weeks of asking her out which likely involved a higher and higher degree of financial offer until he reached her minimum bid amount. I would really like to know how many guys she banged while this dude showered her, thinking it was a ‘relationship’ when it wasn’t. “Free-spirited” he called her. Oh, man that could mean so many things, like the time she disappeared for three months or how she talked him into accepting that she screws other guys etc. while he saves up enough cash to be relevant to her again. All part of the ‘relationship’!

  94. Gunner Q,

    Most MGTOWs would happily go back to women & society if we were offered a better deal. None of our detractors will acknowledge this.

    The following is what I say over at ROK.

    ….okay the only question here that is important regarding the value and purpose of MGTOW is this: are you a MGTOW because you choose to be or a MGTOW because women wont ever give you the time of day? If you CAN get married (or at least, laid) at any moment but you CHOOSE to “opt out” of interacting with women (you’d rather spend your time and your money doing other things, traveling, hobbies, friendship networks, the internet, blogging, serving Christ, anything) then that is one thing. That is commendable, you are to be respected. If you are just a hapless, fat, short, stupid, ugly, uneducated, penniless, smelly, loser, who is likely to die virgin like the Simpson’s Comic Book Guy, then MGTOW is something to be ashamed of. You had NO choice…..

    I think why he cares, is because society (by and large) finds MGTOW as a bunch of sexually frustrated virgin boys who will never be laid. In his mind, that is nothing to be proud of, only something worthy of being teased.

  95. Yeah, smell the ridicule towards men dripping out of ROK. Sounds kinda FI-ish to me. Don’t measure up to women’s standards and you are just a loser. Look at me, I measure up that must make me a “winner”! Yee-freakin’ haw.

  96. The anti-MGTOWer’s have some strange bedfellows……sometimes literally.

  97. Just Saying says:

    @Striver: In the end, to care less I would have had to blow up the family with three children.

    Yeah – that is why women win. If you follow the plot of marriage and kids, you’re pretty much doomed because men take ownership and look on what he has created and say, “That is mine.” Women never do that – they are always in it for themselves. Just the nature of the beast. So if you go that route, you must keep other women on the side, and tell her that they mean nothing, but don’t hide them. Let her see they are younger and that if she leaves, you benefit – that is what they need to see. Yes, they complain – if a woman is complaining about how you “treat” her, you’re golden – no it doesn’t make sense, but women don’t.

    More than a few of my friends made the same mistake you did. Later, when the dust settled, and they are enjoying their life again with women younger than their children, suddenly the wife wants to “salvage things for the children” – which is always code, for “I’m feeling unattractive as I’m not getting as much cock or attention as I thought”. The smart man just sadly explains reality – “you’re too old for me now – I love you for who you are to my children but I need hot, young women for sex, and that isn’t you.” Yes they get PO’ed which is why you want the divorce iron-clad as a woman will always want revenge that she f**ked up, and guess who is to blame for her actions… YOU….

    So in the end there are no happy endings if you ever make the mistake of caring… And it is a mistake… More than a few times I’ve lamented the world is as it is, but I cannot change it – I can just enjoy it as much as I can.

  98. greyghost says:

    Just Saying
    Outstanding

  99. Julian O'Dea says:

    Thanks JN, I think that makes sense, especially the point about women changing as they approach 30. It is perhaps due to cooling hormones.

    A woman at 20 or 25 is probably at her peak. In her prime. Not just physically and sexually, but I suspect intellectually.

    What happens seems to be that women race ahead in their teens, defeating a lot of their male peers intellectually (many of whom will not wise up mentally till their late 20s). They have done well in a friendly educational system. The whole world loves a pretty girl, and most women in their early 20s are at least presentable. Everything peaks for them at about that time (I wrote a post recently on the pretty bluish tinge that the “whites” of young women’s eyes sometimes have – even this seems to fade quickly – everything about young women is incredibly evanescent.)

    Some of these may be the early 20s cohort of young Australian women living on their own that Slumlord wrote of.

    Then they hit the world of real work and the struggle for survival which is part of even office work, and it is not like a university seminar. It is a much less cosy place. Meanwhile, the young men she left behind are starting to get their act together and their greater resilience and resourcefulness is starting to tell.

    Their girl hormones move from wanting to be fucked by the cutest guy to wanting to settle down with the best provider.

    I have wondered too if part of the female life history is not an actual mental decline as they move towards 30. The witty 20 year old in the coffee shop becomes the hausfrau in her 30s.

    Feminists wonder what happened to all those feisty, promising girls. Life happened. And maybe hormone changes.

  100. GeminiXcX says:

    ‘Mark on June 26, 2015 at 3:42 pm
    @MarcusD

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2846299/Bullying-husbands-shout-wives-guilty-domestic-abuse-new-crackdown.html#comments

    Dear Sharia Law:
    Please take over.

    -GXcX

  101. Looking Glass says:

    @GeminiXcX:

    Islam as practiced is abusive, thuggish and brutal. And a ton more honest than our modern governments. That’s so brutally sad.

  102. GeminiXcX says:

    ‘Boxer on June 26, 2015
    She’s an attention whore. The playas on this forum know well the type. This type of ho’ is all “into you” until they hook you (with or without sex), at which point the attention whore has her ego boost, and she moves on to someone else.

    Such women practice an annoying form of emotional vampirism, and my theory is that this specific type has driven the rise of “same night lay” hookup culture. (i.e. men responded by demanding immediate sex, which is generally given, since they know that there’s no relationship or future — or even a second date — with such a ho’).

    Regards,

    Boxer’

    Indeed.
    I agree with your analysis.
    (My reasoning is that a woman can’t be a “seductress” anymore than a man can be a “slut”. “Manipulator-female with tits”, yes; “Seductress”?, no. — Not sure if that is 100% reasonable on my part.)

    The thrill of the chase; then when she has “won” you to her, the next “sucker” is chosen.

    Your theory about the “same night lay” hookup culture is sound.

    The problem is that a lot of “suckers” know the game of the “attention whore”, and such A-W types do not like it when the fling is not ended on *her* terms. (She didn’t get the ultimate fulfillment of draining the current male-target to the max, aka ‘toying with the feelings’ to the point of knowing he was emotionally ‘that into her’.)

    So now the ego of these types of women can only be satisfied with an added notch count to their “conquests”, since they have trouble getting anything more being invested in them by all these different men (which is a false sense of ‘accomplishment’ for a woman anyway, since all she had to do is say “free lunch”, and suckers/options will present himself.)

    It is interesting, Mr. Boxer; a waste of any man’s time, (unless said man is not interested in LTRs, or is simply avoiding “dry spells” between LTRs.)

    As an aside, I noticed your picture has altered significantly, since the last time I regularly trolled here several months ago.

    You grew more hair on your head (in several places) and also went backwards in your age. I would be interested in your secrets.😉

    -GXcX

  103. MarcusD says:

    @MarcusD

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2846299/Bullying-husbands-shout-wives-guilty-domestic-abuse-new-crackdown.html#comments

    Got this sent to me.Arguing with your wife could get you MAX 14 years in the slammer?………….Coming to an Anglo country near you!!!

    As I’ve said before, they’re so strong and independent that they need trigger warnings and safe spaces.

    Anyhow, at some point marriage is going to be de facto outlawed simply due to how insane someone would have to be to agree to it (at least for males).

    Still, though, the definition of abuse has been widened so far that disagreeing with such a process could be seen as abuse. I mean, there are numerous feminists who will say that a man who has attempted to kiss a woman is guilty of rape.

    I guess everybody will be insane or driven crazy.

  104. Signor Farfalla says:

    @GodIsLaughing,

    Yeah, you can almost pinpoint the very calendar date that a few of the Manosphere’s ‘leaders’ found a girl they liked. Lately, there have been some displays of clique-jumping and subsequent crowing that could make the cattiest of middle school mean girls seem as stoic and masculine as The Duke in comparison. The definition of MGTOW is waaaaayyyyy too fluid for that pinpointed caricature of the neckbearded virgin. My contention is that it is physiologically impossible to be VGTOW. An older virgin would never give up. An older virgin is off clapping supportively at slutwalks etc. Most MGTOW are guys with some sense of economy. You could only get that knowledge of cost/benefit by having experienced the benefits already, No way a virgin could be flippant about it being ‘just a warm hole, man, don’t pedestalize it.’ Not happening that way.

  105. MarcusD says:

    Dear Sharia Law:
    Please take over.

    Sharia means “law,” so it can be used by itself (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=sharia&searchmode=none)

    I wonder how feminists will behave under Sharia. I suspect they’ll be just fine, if Western (female) conversions are any indication.

  106. Looking Glass says:

    @MarcusD:

    Japan has long had a very feminized society. As part of a project to understand the Japanese better, it’s become very noticeable that this “Patriarchy” country has been heavily feminized for well over 1000 years. It’s still, fundamentally, a polytheistic culture, which always ends up in Vagina worship. The difference between Japan and other places, however, is that they’ve had to work out how to survive for a very long time.

    So the society, at a functional level to operate, breaks down all of their Men via beating them down. The few natural rebels rise to the surface and are lauded for it. It’s “Alpha sorting” on a societal-wide scale. The “face saving” culture just reinforces all of these issues.

    It should also probably be noted that most Japanese Women don’t get married until a lot of family pressure is put on them. Yet they’ll all complain about “no good Men” while not bothering to look. It’s almost like Women have a nature that crosses all cultures. Funny that. Maybe we should give it a name?🙂

  107. CK says:

    The working culture of Japan (the salaryman) is quite masculine. Hierarchy, endurance (stay until your boss leaves), loyalty (both ways), rite of passage / abuse directed to junior salarymen, sex roles (most women at work are young OLs (office ladies) who are expected after 5-10 years to leave the working world for marriage). Then at home the wife gives the husband an allowance and rules the roost (no sex). It’s inimitable, even if you thought imitating it might be a good idea.

  108. Gunner Q says:

    GeminiXcX @ June 26, 2015 at 10:32 pm:
    “Dear Sharia Law: Please take over.”

    Careful. The Muslims and feminists share a remarkable ability to coexist. I wonder if they have more common ground than one would expect.

    Signor Farfalla @ 1:19 am:
    “Most MGTOW are guys with some sense of economy. You could only get that knowledge of cost/benefit by having experienced the benefits already, No way a virgin could be flippant about it being ‘just a warm hole, man, don’t pedestalize it.’ Not happening that way.”

    I’m one of those middle-aged virgins who happened that way. Speaking for myself, twenty years of sexual shunning and neglect have not left me eager to chase tail. Debating whether a guy’s celibacy is voluntary makes little sense anyway when anybody can go to a bar and get a girl drunk enough.

    With apologies to Christ, “Some MGTOWs are born that way, others were made that way by Churchians and bitch shields, and some chose MGTOW to escape the world’s corruption.”

  109. BradA says:

    Gunner Q,

    Most MGTOWs would happily go back to women & society if we were offered a better deal. None of our detractors will acknowledge this.

    I have not found that the case based on those who support a MGTOW attitude here.

    I am not sure I support the full line of reasoning in the post (though I only read about 1/2 of it), especially since I was a virgin well past the 20 mark in the cartoon. Proclaiming that sex by 16 is the goal is pretty ignorant. Good for enjoying the decline, but it creates the kind of person who will be shot when things rebuild.

    They seem to have jumped into this thread as well. (Not all of them are that way, just some.)

    Gemini,

    My reasoning is that a woman can’t be a “seductress”

    I guess Proverbs would be wrong in that case. I think I will take longstanding Wisdom over modern foolishness.

  110. Gemini XcX says:

    ;es (WWIII), or, if there is a God, the types that you speak of will be annihilated at Har-Magedon. (Revelation 16: 14, 16)

    ‘(Gemini,
    My reasoning is that a woman can’t be a “seductress”)

    I guess Proverbs would be wrong in that case. I think I will take longstanding Wisdom over modern foolishness’

    Proverbs 7; I do not deny this wisdom.

    I responded above, because “Seductress” is a modern word worn like a badge of honor by women, and seems to grant them too much credit; I simply don’t like the term.

    There are other “terms” I prefer to use, “manipulator (with tits)” being one of them.

    Not sure if that makes any sense to you.

    I don’t wish to “fight about words” with you (2 Timothy 2:14), but I have attempted to clarify my position; especially since I absolutely agree with the principle you were pointing to, in your referencing of Proverbs.

    I hope my response is satisfactory, Mr Brad. If not, there’s unfortunately not much else I do with regards to clearing up this post.

    Goodnight my friend.

    -GXcX

  111. GeminiXcX says:

    Apologies for my response above, Brad.
    Half of it got chopped off above the knees; don’t know what happened.

    I was agreeing with your views on many MGTOW comments, and offering my (biblical) views on the outcomes for those who are “enjoying the decline” in a “specific way”.

    Getting late; gotta go.

    -GXcX

  112. BradA says:

    Gemini,

    I would need to clarify your point to comment specifically. I keep trying to write a reply, but I don’t want to go off on a tangent, so I will let it go instead.

  113. Mark says:

    @MarcusD

    I forgot to send this to you……But,rest assured I archived it just for you!
    http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/guelph-gentlemen-s-club-to-start-hosting-church-service-1.1784066
    I have been to this place about 5 times……with my pals from the Kitchener/Waterloo area…..a very decent strip joint….high class.Now we can go go worship at the alter of poon?…….How f***** up is this….L*

  114. feeriker says:

    Now we can go go worship at the alter of poon?

    One could make the case that this strip club is at least being open and honest about it, unlike the majority of established churchian franchises.

  115. Tam the Bam says:

    J O’D: “A woman at 20 or 25 is probably at her peak. In her prime. Not just physically and sexually, but I suspect intellectually.”
    Women stop developing much earlier than men, I guess about up to a decade earlier, maybe a bit more.
    Also known in femiworld as “girls mature much faster than boys, which is why they are such born losers! Yay go gurlz!!11!”
    After all. if they’ve never been there, how would they know what mastery, wisdom and maturity even feel like? It’s a peak in Daríen they’ll never climb. Men are seen and proclaimed as always catching up, and once they disappear over the horizon, it’s simply beyond female comprehension. Therefore Patriarchy, or some other equally malign force is allowing men to cheat in the race of living, Ben Johnson-style, they assume.

  116. Boxer says:

    I have been to this place about 5 times……with my pals from the Kitchener/Waterloo area…..a very decent strip joint….high class.Now we can go go worship at the alter of poon?…….How f***** up is this….L*

    North America is close to being one great continent-wide strip club/gay bath house anyway. What’s the difference, at this point?

  117. North America is close to being one great continent-wide strip club/gay bath house anyway. What’s the difference, at this point?

    That is the lesson we all learned (for sure, this week at least) from the Supreme Court. We are going to hell in a handbasket, quicker not slower.

  118. Opus

    All Indians are Cricket mad

    Except those that are cuckoo for Kho Kho

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kho_kho

  119. Julian O'Dea says:

    Tam the Bam, yes I think so.

    Schopenhauer said a lot of this in his essay On Women.

    And, as you imply, what this means is that the girls outcompete the boys but the women fall behind the men.

    The pattern seems to repeat itself in every generation.

  120. Tam the Bam says:

    That’s Ben Johnson the still-alive running man, not the Jacobethan thesp. Just to be clear. Although of course everyone here already knew that.
    It’s like handing out party flyers in the Reading Room round here sometimes.

  121. Tam the Bam says:

    “Except those that are cuckoo for Kho Kho”
    I have a vague recollection of noticing at the time the deliberate promotion of kabaddi on extremely late night tv (by ’80s reckoning) during the longeurs of attained passion in the hot (70degs F, could have been even sweatier!) summer nights in some girl’s bed ( crt TV at least 14″!! .. with teletext! .. at the foot of the chaise-longue. Q Horatio Flaccus never knew such sybaritic indolence).
    Seems no less silly than cricket, football. Or snooker.

  122. Julian O'Dea says:

    Tam the Bam, it is OK, I am an Australian. We have to learn both Pom and Yank.

  123. Zed says:

    Twelve years. How the hell does a relationship last that long without any kind of 1) deeper connection 2) marriage and kids to keep partners ignoring the lack of a deeper connection 3) boredom and breakup? I mean, I’m even granting the Woman-Beta notion of romantic love for the sake of argument, and it *still* doesn’t explain a guy like that.

    A man has to be totally blind to see that he’s with someone who will leave him overnight after 12 years if he takes some time to pursue his dream and is no longer around to fetch slippers. “Beta” doesn’t even begin to describe that. At a certain point, you’ve gotten enough of what you were after to begin to find out if you can actually live with this person.

    Actually, on further reflection, I’m not even sure you can blame the woman *at all*. 12 years as a girlfriend, she might have just been looking for a ring, for God’s sake.

  124. Mark says:

    @feeriker

    “”One could make the case that this strip club is at least being open and honest about it, unlike the majority of established churchian franchises.””

    Good Point!!!!

    @IBB
    “”That is the lesson we all learned (for sure, this week at least) from the Supreme Court. We are going to hell in a handbasket, quicker not slower.””

    Gay marriage has been legal here in Canada for a few years now.As you know,Toronto has a VERY large gay population.I know quite a few gay men.All professional.I have never heard any of them speak about getting married or heard them speak about attending a gay wedding of peers.I would be curious to know what percentage of marriage licenses issued at City Hall are to gay couples? I have a lot of contacts at City Hall.I am going to try and find out. Also,the gay men that I do know are not attending or marching in the “Pride Day” parade.In fact,I know that a lot of them are embarrassed about the “sleaziness” and portrayal of them as “GAY”.Our last Mayor Rob Ford(whom I know….the crack smoking one..l*) would not attend the parade when he was Mayor.I commend him for this.

  125. BradA says:

    Mark, the goal is to destroy marriage, not widen it.

  126. MarcusD says:

    @Mark

    Re: pride parades: http://socialpathology.blogspot.ca/2015/06/disgust.html

    Also, the marriage rate for gay men is quite low, the partner count is quite high, and the behaviours are dangerous (e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17612955).

  127. Looking Glass says:

    Homosexuals are around 1-2% of any Western population set. (2% if you count the bisexuals, which is actually more accurate to what most of them are) They “marry”, when available, at a lower rate than normal citizens. And that’s even before taking into account that homosexual unions being the “law of the land” rapidly depresses marriage rates.

    It’s really about never having to look in the mirror and admit your sin. You will take everyone down with you. But this is really just a demarcation point, more than anything else. American society has already murdered over 40 million of its own children (I believe an outright majority of those being black), so we’re already drenched in the blood of the innocent. Calling the obscene normal is actually a rare bit of honesty. Cruel & evil, but technically honest. Civil War 2.0 in a few years isn’t going to be too fun. (We live in the age of the Imperial Government. That really only ends in blood shed.)

  128. MarcusD says:

    A Personal Account–A Woman Who Realized Marriage is a Real, Christian Vocation
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=967152

    Divorce
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=967151

    Healing from abusive marriage
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=967203

  129. Dave says:

    On another front Bristol Palin, the once former teen mom who subsequently made money preaching abstinence, is preggo again!
    “At the end of the day there’s nothing I can’t do with God by my side, and I know I am fully capable of handling anything that is put in front of me with dignity and grace.” She says with gusto. You go, girl!

  130. Dave says:

    If the woman was truly from Zimbabwe and she was that attractive, then it should be no surprise. Poverty level in Zimbabwe is through the roof, and the women generally see their relationships with men as first and foremost a financial arrangement.

  131. S. Chan says:

    Here is an article about the founding of NOW: Mallory Millett (2014), Marxist Feminism’s Ruined Lives, FrontPage Magazine.

    The article tells that at early meetings of the precursor of NOW, attendees would recite a sort of back-and-forth prayer. The prayer was led by the woman chairing the meeting.

    “Why are we here today?” she asked.
    “To make revolution,” they answered.
    “What kind of revolution?” she replied.
    “The Cultural Revolution,” they chanted.
    “And how do we make Cultural Revolution?” she demanded.
    “By destroying the American family!” they answered.
    “How do we destroy the family?” she came back.
    “By destroying the American Patriarch,” they cried exuberantly.
    “And how do we destroy the American Patriarch?” she replied.
    “By taking away his power!”
    “How do we do that?”
    “By destroying monogamy!” they shouted.
    “How can we destroy monogamy?”
    “By promoting promiscuity, eroticism, prostitution and homosexuality!” they resounded.

    The article also talks about how “Women’s Studies” courses are used to support all this.

    Imagine this: a girl of seventeen or eighteen at the kitchen table with Mom studying the syllabus for her first year of college and there’s a class called “Women’s Studies.” “Hmmm, this could be interesting,” says Mom. “Maybe you could get something out of this.”

    How could she suspect this is a class in which her innocent daughter will be taught that her father is a villain? Her mother is a fool who allowed a man to enslave her into barbaric practices like monogamy and family life and motherhood, which is a waste of her talents. She mustn’t follow in her mother’s footsteps. That would be submitting to life as a mindless drone for some domineering man, the oppressor, who has mesmerized her with tricks like romantic love. Never be lured into this chicanery, she will be taught. Although men are no damned good, she should use them for her own orgasmic gratification; sleep with as many men as possible in order to keep herself unattached and free. ….

    The article also tells that “The goal of Women’s Liberation is to wear each female down to losing all empathy for boys, men or babies.”

  132. Aziz says:

    Feminists are monsters.

  133. Boxer says:

    Dear S. Chan:

    You don’t actually believe this bullshit, do you?

    How could she suspect this is a class in which her innocent daughter will be taught that her father is a villain? Her mother is a fool who allowed a man to enslave her into barbaric practices like monogamy and family life and motherhood, which is a waste of her talents. She mustn’t follow in her mother’s footsteps.

    The author of this article assumes all of her readers are idiots. Many are, to be sure. Anyway…

    This is not at all what wimminz studies classes are like. In fact, the opposite is true.

    Wimminz studies is a lot more subtle, and draws on plenty of skewed datasets and appeals to emotion. No one’s parents are insulted overtly. There’s an emphasis on building lots of castles in the sky (once we achieve true gendyr equality, you’ll be able to marry your pet turtle and get a free trip to Thailand), rather than demonization of friendly people the students already know. Any discrepancy as to actual people the student knows is quickly covered over with double-talk about general historical trends or unfalsifiable op-eds from 100 years ago.

    The author of this article is a kooky political type with little in the way of character, exactly the same personality type that would otherwise find a comfortable job teaching wimminz studies. If you want to fight your enemies, you gotta first learn their strategies.

    Regards,

    Boxer

  134. J N says:

    @Boxer: Thanks for injecting some sense into this conversation. I spent quite a few years reading feminist literature and spewing forth feminist essay after feminist essay in one of our storied institutions of higher learning. (My particular area of focus was women writers in the Middle East, specifically Iraq, writing during Operation Iraqi Freedom, and then urban planning/design and how women writers related to urban planning and design.)

    Most of the caricatures of women’s studies are untrue. And most of what the average person would think of as “women’s studies” is actually taking place in English departments, or in any arena preparing people to be social workers or teachers.

    I would add that the whole English-lit feminist crowd was a fun lot to carouse with – plenty of fun was had by all, and most people checked their feminism at the door when it came to their personal friendships. Probably the biggest shock was how nearly everyone secretly hated both fat people and gay people. Of course, these opinions would never be expressed in public, but only around one’s trusted associates. One conversation I remember was with myself and 3 other women, one of them a lesbian, two of them bisexual, one of the latter I was in a relationship with at the time. The two in a lesbian relationship were both overweight. All 3 of them agreed that gay people are generally awful, lesbians especially are all crazy, and that people who are fat are simply so because they eat too much, drink too much, and that they’re crazy to expect fat acceptance.

    One of ’em was a full time employee for the New Democratic Party. Another one of ’em espoused an awful lot of what I would consider racist views (but only in private, of course).

    And then we all went back to our lives, spewing forth more feminist clap-trap essays, working for progressive political institutions, and publicly espousing how wonderful our new gay-friendly fat-friendly society is whilst inwardly, I know most the people are seething and full of hatred.

    I really fear for when the lid blows off this whole thing, and all these leftists reveal themselves to actually be a lot more closely aligned with ISIS or Nazis.

  135. J N says:

    @Dave @Looking Glass

    LG, you are correct that the goal here is to look in the mirror and not be confronted with conviction for one’s own sin.

    Dave, Bristol Palin’s comments are a good reflection of what LG said; the idea that “God is by my side” as one is fornicating is a good summary of the distortions of modern-day Christianity.

    The truth, back up by 2,000 years of church history and 2,000 years of Jewish history before that, is that the wages of unrepentant sin is eternal conscious torment. And I just don’t see a lot of repentance lying around.

  136. Boxer says:

    Dear John:

    Right. I often wish that feminists were half as dull-witted as writers in our sphere make out. They’re actually very clever and much more dangerous than most men realize. Kooks like “big red”

    are the exception, rather than the norm.

    My particular area of focus was women writers in the Middle East, specifically Iraq, writing during Operation Iraqi Freedom, and then urban planning/design and how women writers related to urban planning and design.

    For hell’s sake, that’s such an 888 degree. I am amazed you’re employable. :p Be that as it may, it sounds fun. I wish I’d have just been able to read books all the way through uni.

    Best,

    Boxer

  137. Gunner Q says:

    J N @10:33 am:
    “Dave, Bristol Palin’s comments are a good reflection of what LG said; the idea that “God is by my side” as one is fornicating is a good summary of the distortions of modern-day Christianity.”

    +1.

  138. J N says:

    @Boxer

    Well, I was getting a “real” degree; I just took honours English, etc. (English, English-Lit, and so on were required gen eds for all majors).

    It became obvious very quickly that being as feminist as possible was a good strategic move in university.

  139. Dave says:

    But don’t all these point to the imminent return of Christ? After all, feminism and all this gay nonsense have been in existence from the dawn of time, but the forces of good have always suppressed them, and kept them in check. Of late however, it seems that the very lid over hell was blown opened, and the most foul spirits have been poured out on the earth, to promote the most vile practices among men.

  140. J N says:

    @Dave

    Every group of Christians from 1 A.D. onward have thought that present events pointed to the imminent return of Christ.

    Truly, no man knows the day or the hour – not even the son himself.

  141. Tam the Bam says:

    Dave, I get the impression she was pretending to be a white Zimbabwean, i.e. effectively a fairly middle-class* refugee from Mad Bob and his goons.
    What we used to call a Rhodie, or “one of Smithie’s lot”. There are many thousands in Aussie .
    “In September 2014 Mugabe publicly declared that all white Zimbabweans should “go back to England” and called for black Zimbabweans not to lease agricultural land to white farmers”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/active/11442408/Zimbabwes-white-farmers-targeted-for-new-Mugabe-land-grabs.html
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/africa/zimbabwe-s-white-farmers-are-fighting-for-their-land-1.2217360

    * (UK version of middle class, that is; tweeds, twinset and pearls, reads the Telegraph and the abominable Daily Mail, drives expensive Land-Rover, drinks G&T, plays golf, goes to snooze for an hour on Sunday listening to the vicar burbling on about loving thy neighbour and not coveting his ox. Or acres)

  142. J N says:

    @Tam the Bam

    Good call. I was wondering how someone could fake a Zimbabwean English accent. Rhodesian, on the other hand… they’re indistinguishable from Brits to me, and there are certainly enough of them running around Her Majesty’s various realms (or former realms – I have run into plenty in north America.)

    A genuine black Zimbabwean woman would be a prize – well educated, literate, quite traditional, religious, and also quite appreciative of social stability. It’s been a while since I met a Zimbabwean I didn’t like. I still have a few invitations left of places to stay next time I’m in Harare.

  143. S. Chan says:

    @ Boxer, 9:33 am

    The author of the article is the sister of Kate Millett, who is a well-known feminist and the author of the book Sexual Politics. The book is a standard feminist text. It was first published in 1970; the latest edition was published in 2000. Wikipedia says that the book has been “accused … of spawning … the excesses of women’s studies departments”. In short, the book is highly influential in Women’s Studies courses and would be very well known and understood by the author of the article.

    Your claim that “No one’s parents are insulted overtly” is true but misleading. Rather, the courses teach criticisms like “Yes, all men …”; the father is a man, and so such criticisms implicitly apply to him. Similarly, the courses teach criticisms like “Yes all women …”; the mother is a woman, and so such criticisms implicitly apply to her. If a student absorbed the content of such courses, she would almost certainly draw some related conclusions about her parents. All this should be clear.

    I got a copy of the 2000 edition of the book, and skimmed through a small portion of that. Some extracts are below.


    p.33   Patriarchy’s chief institution is the family. … the family … acts as a unit in the government of the patriarchal state.

    p.35   … the patriarchal family insists upon legitimacy. Bronislaw Malinowski describes this as “the principle of legitimacy” formulating it as an insistence that “no child should be brought into the world without a man–and one man at that–assuming the role of sociological father.” [The book then argues against all this.]

    p.36   It is generally accepted that Western patriarchy has been much softened by the concepts of courtly and romantic love.

    p.37   While a palliative to the injustice of woman’s social position, chivalry is also a technique for disguising it.
    … Historians of courtly love stress the fact that the raptures of the poets had no effect upon the legal or economic standing of women….
    … the courtly and the romantic versions of love … have had the effect of obscuring the patriarchal character of Western culture….
    … The concept of romantic love affords a means of emotional manipulation which the male is free to exploit.
    … [romantic love] is often the only condition in which the female can overcome the … powerful conditioning she has received toward sexual inhibition. Romantic love also obscures the realities of female status….

    p.38   Aristotle observed that the only slave to whom a commoner might lay claim was his woman, and the service of an unpaid domestic still provides working-class males with a “cushion”….

    p.54   Status, temperament, and role are all value systems with endless psychological ramifications for each sex. Patriarchal marriage and the family … play a large part in enforcing them.
    … Woman is still denied sexual freedom….
    … The continual surveillance in which she is held tends to perpetuate the infantilization of women….
    …. [The female] is customarily deprived of any but the most trivial sources of dignity or self-respect.

    p.222   The preservation of conservative notions of marriage and the family, of sex role, took on something of the nature of defense of holy ground. Social experiment or change generally came to be viewed with pity or derision.

    p.224   …child care itself is only culturally assigned to women.

    It is clear from these few extracts that the article was representing the book fairly, and the content does indeed demonize.

    Finally, you used the derogatory terms “bullshit” and “idiot”: those terms were unjustified.

  144. J N says:

    @S. Chan

    Looking for conspiracies is the domain of idiots. There’s no “conspiracy” to make young women hate their fathers.

  145. OKRickety says:

    J N said:
    Every group of Christians from 1 A.D. onward have thought that present events pointed to the imminent return of Christ.

    The concept is correct, but the date is wrong. It should be about 33 AD (although I think there are arguments on the date). AD is “Anno Domini” – Latin for “the year of the Lord”. It is sometimes mistakenly thought to be “after death”, presumably because BC is “before Christ”.

    The easier solution might be to reference Jesus’ death, resurrection, or ascension instead of a specific calendar year.

  146. jbro1922 says:

    “Actually, on further reflection, I’m not even sure you can blame the woman *at all*. 12 years as a girlfriend, she might have just been looking for a ring, for God’s sake.”

    Um…yes you can. Any woman who waits 12 years for a ring is an idiot. It don’t take that long for a man to propose. Unless there is some extenuating circumstances. But even then, if they are that extenuating that it takes 12 years, he’s got bigger problems. I’d say in teens/20s, 2 years is long enough to know whether you want to marry or not. 3 if something extenuating happens (like death of close relative, job loss, natural disaster, etc.). After 3 years, woman needs to move on if man ain’t popped the question. By 30s, I’d say 6 months to a year. You know what you want and don’t want by that age.

  147. thedeti says:

    Re: Bristol Palin and her invocation of “God is by my side”:

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/godly-unashamed-unwed-mothers/

  148. thedeti says:

    From Godly Unashamed Unwed Mothers:

    “She is a Christian baby mama. The article stresses that this book urging baby mamas to hold their heads high is entirely wholesome and Christian”

    “We learn that her act of sexual immorality and profound disobedience has strengthened her walk with God”

    The overarching theme with Christian baby mamas is that they endure a hardship and trial (of their own making) and that it fortifies them. Their self-imposed hardship improves their mettle and their character. They come out on the other side a better person, albeit one who doesn’t make the “mistake” again.

    Oh, wait….

  149. J N says:

    @thedeti, and this false teaching is robbing single mothers of salvation, because salvation doesn’t happen without confession and repentance in any orthodox soteriology. Doesn’t matter if you’re Catholic, Calvinist, Baptist, Pentecostal, or what have you.

    @jbro1922: The locus of responsibility for “it’s not her fault it took 12 years” needs to shift to it entirely being her fault to (a) be willing to sleep with someone who didn’t marry her first, and (b) be willing to participate in a courtship longer than 6 months – 1 year that wasn’t moving towards engagement, where “engagement” means “pick out a date for a wedding and send out invitations”, as opposed to this rather ephemeral thing I’m seeing lately of “we plan to get married but don’t have a date yet”. Fast forward one year later, they’re living together, and no date has been set yet.

  150. jbro1922 says:

    @JN

    I agree. The responsibility is on the woman to settle for nothing less than marriage if that’s what she wants. She needs to stick to her guns and not settle for “we’re practically married” or a roommate. This confuses me: I thought feminism was supposed to empower women. Seems like they stay with some dude for years on end and then blame him for victimizing her. Um…why don’t you have any confidence in yourself? Marriage is a perfectly fine and logical goal and women have a right to ask for it. Just be prepared to walk if dude is not interested. I think this is where a lot of women slip up. Hoping to change dude’s mind; holding out hope against hope because they’ve slept together and hormones and chemicals won’t let her let it go. Hoping she can wear him down. Bring that up to feminists and silence.

  151. MarcusD says:

    There’s no “conspiracy” to make young women hate their fathers.

    No, not a conspiracy. I think they’re rather open about it. I’ve been in a few gender studies classes (not registered, just there out of curiosity) and there definitely was a bit of that. That said, the ‘father’ thing was only a part of the larger “men are evil” discussions that were had. Perhaps the local gender studies department is full of true believers.

  152. JDG says:

    There’s no “conspiracy” to make young women hate their fathers.

    I have to disagree here. Feminism is rebellion through and through. Rebellious women are in fact demonstrating hate for their fathers, husbands, and brothers when they rebel. There certainly WAS and (to the extent of any male authority) still IS a conspiracy to inspire daughters to rebel against any authority or values held by their fathers under the banner of feminism. Therefore, I submit that there IS a conspiracy to make young women hate their fathers.

  153. JDG says:

    Marcus – Yes, perhaps “brazen united front” is a more accurate description of how these people are practicing their treachery. Though they often perform their deeds out in the open, their undertakings are the result of agreements between several people committed to inspire rebellion against God, father’s and a healthy society.

  154. mjaaazz3 says:

    Despite this guy sounding like a whiney beta I think effectively he has pulled off an Alpha move. Let me explain. Right through his 20s he pursued his own thing; completed a law degree at a top university, worked as a successful lawyer and then tried to manage a start up. The latter was unsuccessful but at least he won’t grow old wondering if he could ever have managed it. All this by the time he was (I’m quessing) about 32. At the same time he always had a woman on tap, giving him the sex and companionship he needed, without having to go through all that messy stuff most of us go through in our 20s. Now that the girl is hitting the wall, or is pushing for a deeper committment (ie marriage and kids) he has managed to get rid of her. It all sounds quite good really. Its not quite clear, and most here seem to thing she dumped him because of the drop in income, but isn’t it more likely that she has reached 30 and is now looking for a husband, and after he fended her off she has gone off to find one. Now I’ve known guys to do this before but never for as long as 12 years (5 or 6 years generally being the maxium). I guess these days its easier to pull off because most girls in their early to mid 20s are not marriage conscious, but still keeping it going for 12 years is pretty good. The stuff about the drop in income with the startup is not really that important. If it had been successful he would have had plenty of money, if it failed he was still young enough to go back to being a lawyer. What is important about it is that he was going to pursue his dream regardless of the risks involved and regardless of what his girlfriend wanted and she responded accordingly. After 12 years she wanted him to be the betabux, but he refused. Would we be at all surprised to hear that in 1-2 years she had married some other dude and was pregnant with her first child? And he was now in the process of going through his next, or next after girl friend. So I think he has pulled off an alpha move, been Alpha fux to this girl in her prime and has now moved on. I just dont know why he can’t own what he did.

  155. Gunner Q says:

    jbro1922 @ 3:38 pm:
    “I think this is where a lot of women slip up. Hoping to change dude’s mind; holding out hope against hope because they’ve slept together and hormones and chemicals won’t let her let it go. Hoping she can wear him down.”

    Women fall for men refusing to commit so often, I seriously doubt they don’t realize what’s going on. I read a PUA (maybe Roosh?) who pointed out that such serial monogamy is the female version of male promiscuity. She gets together with a man she likes while keeping the freedom to upgrade whenever she finds a better man. When the better man comes along, she “suddenly realizes” her current man has been “taking advantage” of her trust! It’s always his fault because she can’t possibly be a wanderlusting whore….

    Such is the flaw of no-fault divorce. It assumes women act like men, who are content with a sub-par wife so long as the sex & sandwiches keep coming and the kids are okay. Nope. Women, given the chance, will lease husbands instead of buying one.

    Hmm. I wonder if, when shopping for cars, women prefer to lease more than men do? *Googles* According to BLS, men lease cars 9.6% of the time and women lease cars 11.5% of the time. Statistically significant but not as much as race or region. The study also shows women buy new cars much more often than men (37% to 21%) but that could be due to male interest in tools and maintenance. It certainly doesn’t correlate with female demand for sexually accomplished men.

    http://www.bls.gov/cex/anthology/csxanth8.pdf

    I think Dalrock is rubbing off on me.

  156. @J N, “Truly, no man knows the day or the hour – not even the son himself.”

    Yes, but.

    “But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.” 1 Thess 5:1-7

    AND:

    “Looking for conspiracies is the domain of idiots. There’s no “conspiracy” to make young women hate their fathers.”

    FOUND ONE!

    Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. Psalm 2:1-3

    Looks like I’m in good company. Anyone that is actively working for Satan is conspiring against God and His anointed. Thankfully they are mice conspiring against an amused cat.

    He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

  157. More Biblical prophesy of conspiracies:

    Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.” Isaiah 28:14-17

  158. Dale says:

    GunnerQ: Most MGTOWs would happily go back to women & society if we were offered a better deal. None of our detractors will acknowledge this.

    BradA: I have not found that the case based on those who support a MGTOW attitude here.

    In at least my case you are incorrect. I refuse to accept a substandard woman, thus refuse to pursue the vast majority of women I know here. I have not dated a normal Canadian for about 15 years. I did date a former Hutterite about 6 years ago.
    And, as the same guy, I actively pursue not merely “dating” relationships, but marriage, when in another culture. I am very open about wanting marriage, and the few women there with whom I interacted responded well.
    Some men absolutely are willing to reengage and marry, provided the deal at least appears to be acceptable.

  159. Boxer says:

    Dear S. Chan:

    Please see inside text…

    Your claim that “No one’s parents are insulted overtly” is true but misleading. Rather, the courses teach criticisms like “Yes, all men …”; the father is a man, and so such criticisms implicitly apply to him.

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. I know I won’t convince you; (despite the fact that you have never personally witnessed any lecture in any wimminz studies class, you will insist you know better than I do) but, this is an interesting topic, and I think I’m in a unique position to tell the open minded brothers just exactly how it all works. I’ve sat in on dozens of different wimminz studies classes, at three different institutions, under about a dozen different lecturers, over a period of about six years, so I do know what I’m talking about.

    Between 25-33 percent of the time in any wimminz studies class is generally devoted to problems men have. The tone of these lectures sounds almost precisely similar to the tone of the average article on AVFM. This should not be surprising, since Paul Elam is a feminist himself (his main gripe with the establishment feminists is that they aren’t being feminist enough, and there need to be total eradication of gender roles, equality in family court, etc.) What the lecturer will do (which is incredibly clever and persuasive) is to paint the average father or uncle as a victim (as Paul Elam does, etc.) and to explain that feminism is the hope of salvation for these men, and men like them.

    On one occasion, I heard a mousy young girl mention that her uncle had repeatedly raped her as a child. I had no reason to disbelieve her. Incredibly, both she and the uncle who had violated her were both painted as victims of patriarchy, and the solution to such family problems was (as dalrock readers should expect) more feminism. In the future, students are told, feminist groups will set all social and legal policy, and this will be a boon for men too. Incest and other serious family problems will somehow all evaporate, when feminist groups get the funding and power they need.

    This is a very clever appeal which soft-cells these family destroyers, painting them as totally non-threatening and completely benign.

    In short, the sorts of kooks who write kook-literature for radfems to frig themselves to are not setting the curriculum in wimminz studies courses. The people who spread feminism at university are a thousand times more dangerous.

    I hope this has been helpful.

    Boxer

  160. The Tingler says:

    “The most surprising part of the story is that she stayed with him for twelve years.”

    And this is why we love Dalrock.

  161. BradA says:

    Dale, you would not be one of those I was thinking of.

    I am all for high standards. I am not for “all women are horribly” view.

  162. MarcusD says:

    Ladies who are 35+ and single or married after 35: when did you grieve and accept childlessness?
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=967451

    Genetic and Painful Discouragements Against Marriage; Need Counsel
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=967437

  163. PokeSalad says:

    The overarching theme with Christian baby mamas is that they endure a hardship and trial (of their own making) and that it fortifies them. Their self-imposed hardship improves their mettle and their character.

    What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? -Rom 6:1-2

  164. theasdgamer says:

    We have to learn both Pom and Yank.

    Ahm shoah y’all maht benefit from larnin how tuh cunverse with a Suthun gennlemun as wale.

  165. Mark Citadel says:

    The sad thing is, I can already think of fifteen people off the top of my head that I know who would love this app. Degeneracy and the abolition of man has reached its apex folks, it can only improve from here.

  166. Gunner Q says:

    mjaaazz3 @ 4:55 pm:
    “Despite this guy sounding like a whiney beta I think effectively he has pulled off an Alpha move.”

    He isn’t Alpha but does have respectable skills. He’s definitely accomplished in the working world, is confident enough to take major risks and knows how to turn setbacks into opportunities. Remember Alpha is a measurement of sexual attraction only, not overall success in life.

    Surfer bums on welfare can be apex Alphas. Genius millionaire businessmen can be sexual lepers. This is why undisciplined women are toxic to civilization.

  167. J N says:

    Looks like it’s time for another installment of “Why are Christian men so afraid of dating all these wonderful Christian girls out there?”

    http://www.relevantmagazine.com/life/relationships/why-are-so-many-christians-afraid-dating

    Comments section is gold

  168. Anonymous Reader says:

    BradA
    Dale, you would not be one of those I was thinking of.

    No true MGTOW, eh?

    I am all for high standards. I am not for “all women are horribly” view.

    Sweeping generalization or strawman? Either way a fallacy.

    I wouldn’t know Dale or GunnerQ if I ran right into them on a sidewalk, but I know men in their 20’s & 30’s who strongly resemble them. Some of them appear to be GTOW, at least for now, because of what 20-something women all too often look and act like. Some of them are sons of divorce, and don’t think much of marriage due to their own up close & personal exposure. And I’m out in flyover country, no where near a coast. These are men who are quite willing to chat with women, the ones who go to church interact with women in various functions, but who are not going to be getting married any time soon, for various reasons. Standards is one reason. Women in their 20’s not wanting to marry is another. Excessive betaization is another reason. Employment intertwined with hypergamy? More reasons.

    PS: Just to explicate, none of these 20’s & 30’s men that I know take an “all women are horrible” view. That seems to be limited to a tiny number of men, mostly online, who are apparently stuck in the anger phase of learning the truth about women.

  169. J N says:

    @Anonymous Reader

    I’d back up everything you said. I know quite a few men who fall into this camp. They’re employed, doing well financially, early 20s, and generally are attractive. Most of them even have a few girls who seem interested in them.

    For whatever reason, these guys have zero interest in dating, and seem really, really, really wary of marriage. One common thread: all of them have either parents, or a brother or close friend, who’s been through a nasty divorce.

  170. J N says:

    @thedeti

    Has DC changed? In the early 2000s, I was still in my teens and a poor sap from another country, eking out an existence at a large nonprofit near the bottom of the salary scale, and had no issues at all securing dates.

    My roommate at the time often griped about how he “got no play” whilst I had dates, but I just attributed that to his passion for anime, video games, and dressing like a nerd (jean shorts, longish greasy hair, and the like).

  171. Mark says:

    @JN
    “”One of ’em was a full time employee for the New Democratic Party. Another one of ’em espoused an awful lot of what I would consider racist views””

    Not an NDP’er?………Good for you!……What part of Canada do you reside?…..I am in Toronto. FemiNazi capital of North America! Harper is not perfect…..but is a lot better than Trudeau or Muclair will ever be.I know him personally…..I will assure you that he is a good man!

    @deti
    “”From Godly Unashamed Unwed Mothers:””

    Maybe you should re-post that GREAT article that you posted over at Just For Guys!……the one about meeting women at church!

    @Boxer
    “”Kooks like “big red””

    Ahhh yes!……typical Toronto Fem-C***……RooshV was correct when he stated that Toronto is the worst city in North America for men!!!

    @deti
    “”From Godly Unashamed Unwed Mothers:””

    Have not heard anything about this…..only here……Is the father of her 2nd kid the same father as the first kid?……I would assume not.

    @Anon
    “”No true MGTOW, eh?””

    They are growing leaps & bounds everyday!!!!!!!!!

    @Dale:
    “”I have not dated a normal Canadian for about 15 years.””

    Welcome to the club!………You are in the majority of Canuck men!…….but,remember one thing….Canadian women make great “booty calls”…..it is not like they are getting asked out all the time….go for the ones over 30…..they will “go down faster than a convertible rooftop”.

  172. BradA says:

    AR,

    He very well could be a MGTOW, I am no judge of that. I was just noting he doesn’t fit with the “All women are scum and I am a MGTOW” theme that some express. Even a few I agree with on other things!

  173. Dale says:

    @Mark
    >but,remember one thing….Canadian women make great “booty calls”

    Sorry bud, but I’ll have to disappoint you on that score🙂 I have never understood the “attraction” in degrading myself with a woman who I already know is not good enough for me. It just makes no sense.
    Obviously I understand the desire for sex. I’m not totally daft…🙂 But if she is:
    a) the kind of woman you would not ever agree to marry, and also
    b) the kind of woman who sleeps around, and thus likely has slept with 5 or 10 other guys before you,
    Why on earth would I ever want to put my penis into that?!?! I understand sexual attraction, I definitely feel it. It is based (mostly) solely on appearance, and the emotions involved have little to do with logic / thinking. But have some respect for yourself man!

    But maybe my views have been “warped”… Here is a verse I recently memorized:
    1 Cor 6:15:
    Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never!

    I found your comments on Harper interesting. I also think he is the best option. He has made some significant (bad) compromises in order to stay in power I think. Unfortunately a necessity in a full democracy. I am mindful of what John N would think on this topic🙂

  174. Mark says:

    @Dale
    “”But have some respect for yourself man!””

    I do have self respect.That is why I would NEVER EVER get involved with a Canadian woman under Canadian law.It is not a bad business deal….it is a sucker’s deal! Secondly,I have needs.I like poon way too much to be celibate! Poon is just another commodity in my eyes….and it has never been cheaper!

    “”thus likely has slept with 5 or 10 other guys before you,””

    Here in Toronto that would practically be a virgin!

    “”He has made some significant (bad) compromises in order to stay in power””

    Yes he did.And I am glad that he did.He had to “appease the Establishment”.I could delve deeper into those “compromises” but,this is not the place.I now that my family has benefited from his re-election and will continue to support him…….Shalom!

  175. Don Quixote says:

    J N says:

    June 30, 2015 at 2:28 pm

    I was still in my teens and a poor sap from another country, eking out an existence at a large nonprofit near the bottom of the salary scale, and had no issues at all securing dates.

    My roommate at the time often griped about how he “got no play” whilst I had dates, but I just attributed that to his passion for anime, video games, and dressing like a nerd (jean shorts, longish greasy hair, and the like).

    I suspect you may have retained some of your foreign accent, and this can be a great chick-magnet if you don’t sound/act too stupid. I remember as a young man there was this guy from Scotland and all the girls were fascinated with him because of the way he spoke. He spoke english like it was his first language but it sounded so weird.

  176. J N says:

    @Don Quixote

    I sounded completely Canadian when I lived in D.C., and trust me, it wasn’t much of a chick magnet at all.

    Australians, Scots, British, etc. can pretty much get away with anything they want in U.S./Canada, though. It works to about a +2 in SMV.

  177. J N says:

    @MarcusD

    Women are more likely to keep their names if they are older, not religious, have children from a previous marriage or have an advanced degree and established career, according to data from the Google survey, the Times announcements and previous studies.

    Each of those attributes are things to avoid in a woman that a man is considering for marriage.

  178. Robin Munn says:

    @J N –

    With one exception: if she’s a widow, having children from a previous marriage is not a disqualifier. But then, widows aren’t women to avoid anyway: almost all the bad traits that make a single mother a bad candidate for marriage (promiscuity, alpha-widowhood, etc.) don’t apply to a widow who was a virgin when she married her first husband.

    E.g., last night I had dinner with some friends, both of whom had lost their first spouse to cancer before they married each other. Their marriage has lasted ten years so far, and from what evidence I could see in their interactions, is quite solid. In their case, I would not have said, “She has a kid from a previous marriage; stay away.”

    But widows are such a small minority of “single mothers” these days that it’s almost not worth mentioning that exception. As a general rule, the “don’t marry a single mother” is an excellent rule of thumb for a man.

  179. J N says:

    Robin Munn: Widows are a unique exception, with the treatment of them outlined by the Apostle Paul himself. They are to be cared for by the church if they are too elderly to be able to secure marriage again. But if they are younger, remarriage is the expectation.

    I do not disgrace widows by referring to them as single mothers. They are women whose husbands died. Their N count equals their marriage count, so basically, 2. Nobody has tow orry about alpha widowhood when the guy is actually dead!

    I know a fair number of remarried widowers or widows. There’s a fairly active “dating scene” amongst people whose spouses die, in my circles. All in all I think it’s a respectful, honourable thing.

    What is disgusting is how some attempt to conflate single mothers with this.

  180. feeriker says:

    Each of those attributes are things to avoid in a woman that a man is considering for marriage.

    Word.

    All of those attributes, separate or combined, scream “stay way from the bitch!”

  181. Mark says:

    @All The Canucks!

    Happy Canada Day!……………..and a Happy Birthday to Canada’s Centennial Baby….Pamela Anderson……………………https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamela_Anderson

    “”Anderson got some press coverage right after her birth as the country’s “Centennial Baby”, having been the first baby born on July 1, 1967, the 100th anniversary of Canada’s official founding via the Constitution Act, 1867.””

    For all you Canucks that just think she is famous for Baywatch and Playboy!

  182. Thomas says:

    Oh God! Just look at the pictures on his site! Just look at the fact that there *are* pictures of him and the new girl! The beta, it burns!

  183. Thomas says:

    The companion app to “Hello M’lady.” https://youtu.be/e8teRxOSNHs

  184. Asher says:

    This is an app that will always be in beta – couldn’t resis

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