Real men don’t just carry purses, they restock them too.

A teenage boy’s supplicating instagram post has gone viral, and is upping the ante for servant leaders everywhere.

TO EVERY BOY THAT FOLLOWS ME AND CALLS HIMSELF A MAN OR SIMPLY A GOOD HUMAN BEING. Petition for all of us to start bringing a couple pads or tampons to school to help our girl friends. If you have a girlfriend or are friends with a girl, u should know that they do not always have tampons or pads on them, or that sometimes their period just hits them without notice and have a bit of a problem finding one. We should support them with this, after all, we don’t have to go trough all they they do because of menstruation, so it’s just logical that we help them…

The chick rags are of course delighted.  Huffington Post exclaims: The Awesome Reason Why This Teen Boy Is Carrying Around Tampons At School.  Liz Alterman at The Stir explains in Why This Teen Boy Is Asking Male Students to Bring Tampons to School that she hopes to raise sons like this:

As expected, he’s taken a bit of heat from guys in his class but he’s remaining steadfast in his sympathetic stance and we applaud his effort. Imagine a generation of guys who aren’t embarrassed to go out and buy tampons and maxi-pads for their wives or girlfriends? I’d like to raise sons like that!

Except, maybe her sons shouldn’t be like that:

Still, as a mom of boys, I don’t know if I’d want my son to morph into a human tampon dispenser.

Looking at the picture of the kid holding maxi pads with a please love me look on his face, my hope is that this isn’t real and is instead someone from the manosphere trolling the internet.  Either way, if you’ve ever struggled to understand beta creepiness this should help you understand the phenomenon.

This entry was posted in Beta Orbiter, Chivalry, Foolishness, Game, Rationalization Hamster, Servant Leader, Solipsism. Bookmark the permalink.

288 Responses to Real men don’t just carry purses, they restock them too.

  1. Will S. says:

    “Still, as a mom of boys, I don’t know if I’d want my son to morph into a human tampon dispenser.”

    Typical prog hypocrisy, like public school supporters who send their kids to private schools…

  2. rugby11ljh says:

    That could have easily have been me.

  3. The chick rags are of course delighted.

    Heh. Nice one.

    Except, maybe her sons shouldn’t be like that:

    Yes, this is like the girl who says, “You’re a great guy, but I just don’t feel that way about you.” She’ll encourage you to keep being that way, but to make it a gift to some other girl. This kid’s plea is so creepy beta that not only would the woman writer not want to date a man like this, she wouldn’t even want to be associated with one — and the revulsion is so strong that she can’t help but include it in the article even though it invalidates everything else she wrote.

  4. Jodaph says:

    These feminists are cheering for a male who sees them as so helpless that they can’t handle carrying their own rags. Do they not see the irony?

  5. Buying such things for your wife should not bother any man. No different than buying toilet paper. Attempting to use it as a selling point is pathetic.

  6. Boxer says:

    Looking at the picture of the kid holding maxi pads

    singlemomraisedboy.jpeg

  7. RobJ says:

    Good fences make good neighbors. That old saying is still true, but tampon boy and the transvestites who use women’s bathrooms don’t understand that.

  8. Pingback: Real men don’t just carry purses, they restock them too. | Neoreactive

  9. bradford says:

    @QM

    I agree. Any time I’m at Lowes’ and my wife wants me to pick up some tampons, I’m with it.

  10. CaveClown says:

    Awww… her emotional tampon brings her her real tampons! Such a sweet boy. This way she won’t ever be without a tampon when she is surprised by her period that comes at roughly the same time EVERY SINGLE MONTH.

    This guy has some harsh truths coming his way when “his girl” gets poached by an alpha.

    Wake up!!

  11. Feminine But Not Feminist says:

    It’s one thing to buy a box of tampons for someone in your own family, and quite another to carry them around just in case you encounter a girl that needs one. My Dad sometimes did the grocery shopping when I was a teenager (he was retired, and this gave him an excuse to get out of the house if he was feeling a little stir-crazy), and he would always tell me “if you need pads or plugs, write them on the list.” I swear, you couldn’t embarrass the man; he was quite comfortable in his own skin. And he was one of the more masculine men that I’ve ever met. Granted, I wouldn’t actually ask for a man to buy those for me since I know it would be awkward for most, but wouldn’t think it weird if one such as my Dad or husband offered to if he’s going out. But this kid that wants to be a tampon dispenser, probably in the hopes that one of those girls will think he’s her hero or something, that SCREAMS desperation.

  12. Regular Guy says:

    A quick and dirty test to see if you’re an alcoholic/beta male mangina.

    You’re going home from work and when you’re about 10 min from home, you realized you forgot to buy a 6 pack of beer on the way home and turning around and going out of your way to the store in 15 min away. Do you turn around and go out of your way to head back to the store (alcoholic) or head home and write yourself a note to pick up a 6 pack tomorrow? (Not an alcoholic)

    Your wife needs you to pick up tampons. Situation one: You have to leave the house specifically for tampons while she stays home (Beta male mangina) Situation two: You are already running errands and she calls to ask you pick up tampons on your way back home (Not a mangina).

  13. Opus says:

    I am ahead of the game here: I always carry a packet of condoms with me, and offer them freely to any girl in class who looks like she might be on for it (say with some alpha-dude). So far my kindly offer has always resulted in my face being slapped.

  14. getalonghome says:

    As a mom of boys myself, I don’t want my boys hanging around with the kind of girls who are comfortable asking them for tampons. I can’t imagine asking a boy (or man, or woman I’m not very well acquainted with) for a tampon myself. Now the creepy, probably harmless guy who was always leaving flowers and teddy bears by my locker is going to be charting my cycle for me? This has to be a brilliant trolling effort. Just has to.

  15. ddswaterloo says:

    Ladies: Its called personal responsibility. Or a purse. Or barring that, why not stuff something you might actually need in your bras.

    Just some helpful suggestions.

  16. Regular Guy says:

    “Still, as a mom of boys, I don’t know if I’d want my son to morph into a human tampon dispenser”

    As a typical feminist, Liz Alterman has no empathy for males, not even her son. She’s not repelled by her son’s public groveling because of concern for his well being, but because of how it could bring shame to her. If he would do this privately and she found out, she would give him a hug and a kiss on the cheek followed by a belittling pat on the head.

  17. da GBFMZ always appreciatedzdagirlz who are there handing him condomdnz as it is impsooiblez to carry enoughz!

  18. Wilson says:

    Doesn’t even make sense, I suspect he’s injecting them with his semen.

  19. DrTorch says:

    I’m w/ ddswaterloo- this is just one more piece of a white knight trying to relieve girls of personal responsibility…at truly one of the most base levels conceivable.

    His desperate look is disturbing.

    And wasn’t there a time when this topic was personal? M or F, who wants this boy keeping track of his classmates’ cycles?

  20. The Question says:

    “We should support them with this, after all, we don’t have to go trough all they they do because of menstruation, so it’s just logical that we help them…”

    I think it is fair to say, as Aaron Clare puts it, that “the father was unavailable for comment.”

  21. Robert What? says:

    The look on his face screams “hoax”. But if it is real, he is in for a lifetime of hurt and disillusionment.

  22. Random Angeleno says:

    The ex once called me at work and as I was supposed to stop at the store on the way home from work, she asked me to add tampons to my list. I normally considered that her business so I wasn’t that familiar with her preferred brand. Hence it shouldn’t surprise anyone that I got confused when standing in front of the display and picked the wrong box. For which I was excoriated. On the bright side, she never asked me to do that again.

    But thinking back on it, if it’s my wife, that would be one thing as long as she is specific about her preferred brand(s). But I would never in a million years dream of doing this for any other woman, let alone broadcast that the way this kid did. This is way worse than holding purses …

  23. Pirran says:

    “Looking at the picture of the kid holding maxi pads with a please love me look on his face, my hope is that this isn’t real and is instead someone from the manosphere trolling the internet.”

    My instinctive thoughts were this had to be a Poe (The Onion must be kicking themselves), but with a resigned shrug, I think it’s probably real. That poor schmuck. How girls are going to humiliate him behind his back for the forseeable future, but not in public, of course. As commenter Marion over at CafeMom says:

    “I think it is great that jose has taken a stand like this ,just wish more boys could do so , when my brother was alive he would not only buy pands and “plugs for his women folks but also diapers for his female’s babies butts. noe thats a man with out fear.”

    C’mon guys. Let’s prove our realmanliness by stocking up on adult diapers and baby wipes for our man-bags. As Japan shows, they’re the wave of the future, and our ageing rad-fem sisters are going to need them when we’re out supporting them on Slutwalk Seniors 2050. It’s gonna’ be rad!

  24. Dalrock says:

    @Random Angeleno

    The ex once called me at work and as I was supposed to stop at the store on the way home from work, she asked me to add tampons to my list. I normally considered that her business so I wasn’t that familiar with her preferred brand. Hence it shouldn’t surprise anyone that I got confused when standing in front of the display and picked the wrong box. For which I was excoriated. On the bright side, she never asked me to do that again.

    Did you explain that you asked all of the nice ladies in the store which would be best for a heavy flow, and this is the one 7 out of 10 suggested?

  25. feeriker says:

    This way she won’t ever be without a tampon when she is surprised by her period that comes at roughly the same time EVERY SINGLE MONTH.

    I can’t imagine any woman being so devoid of self-awareness as to not be able to realize that, by letting it be known that she ges blindsided by her REGULAR monthly menstrual cycles, she’s too irresponsible, lazy, and/or stupid to properly tend to her own reproductive health. In any sane society, wouldn’t a normal, well-adapted human male be repelled by such a women (or just assume that she was mentally retarded and didn’t know any better)?

  26. feeriker says:

    I just looked at the Instagram picture. There’s no way that that pic is NOT satire.

  27. Casey says:

    If that article is real, that kid is a wuss.

    Perhaps women could carry all manner of first-aid supplies on their persons to aid we poor men when we inevitably injure ourselves doing the uncomfortable & dangerous work with which feminists, fat & thin alike, don’t want to sully their hands.

    Carry your own damn tampons.

  28. Tim says:

    Men carrying tampons and/or panty liners is the new “Whip out the lighter when she puts a cigarette to her lips” play. Very, very suave and sophisticated.

  29. JR says:

    Oh those high school days when every day some Carrie imitator was unprepared for the menses. You know, seeing some poor damsel walking the hallways unaware that she was leaking. Of course, the school nurse was not prepared for such unexpectancies. And being the nerd I was, you can be sure the leaky cheerleader hottie appreciated me noticing her problem and whipping out my handy dandy plugger uppers. There is a good reason my head is flat, its because the football team stomped on it.

  30. Boxer says:

    I just looked at the Instagram picture. There’s no way that that pic is NOT satire.

    I thought it was obvious too, but I’m cynical by nature.

  31. Random Angeleno says:

    @Dalrock

    Did you explain that you asked all of the nice ladies in the store which would be best for a heavy flow, and this is the one 7 out of 10 suggested?

    lol!

    In the interest of moving forward, I’ve long since stopped trying to remember exactly how that conversation and many others went, but one can be sure that what she said essentially translated (or hamsterlated as deti puts it) to “it’s all about ME!” and “you should know exactly what I like!”

  32. Alan K says:

    I can’t imagine any woman being so devoid of self-awareness … that she ges blindsided by her REGULAR monthly menstrual cycles….

    No? All. Of. The. Time.

    Delusion runs rampant in the female’s mind. They expend vast amounts of energy denying these obvious facts because such truths feel too bad to face on a regular basis. Treat a (any) woman like the ‘weaker vessel’ that they all clearly are. They NEED us to to say ‘no’ and demand that they act reponsibly, not to carry around an assortment of hygiene products for their convenience and lack of responsibility.

    All we’re suppsosed to do is hide their myriad of problems, we’re never expected to solve them. The great irony is that we often CAN.

  33. Katie says:

    OK. Something not all the men realize here is that cycles are NOT the same for every woman…they can actually be quite irregular.

    However, there is still a fairly simple solution to this: be ready to tend to your needs at (basically) all times. Ever read the piece of advice to keep a $20 on hand for emergencies? Why not a few tampons?

    Failing that, prevail upon the good graces of another FEMALE. Unless you are in desperate, and I mean desperate, circumstances (ship stranded at sea? –in which case you might have to make do with repurposing whatever cloth could be given to you), it is entirely inappropriate to ask the average joe for one.

    In fact, why not just practice by being resourceful now? (Ladies will be able to figure out what I mean by this.) I understand being car-less and all of that, but I’d make do somehow for a couple of hours, or hide out in the bathroom, before I would approach a man not VERY close to me (I’m thinking other than my husband–I’m brother-less and would have died asking my father when younger) about it.

    If you want to feel “rescued” by a softhearted guy, ask him if you can borrow a couple of quarters. Or just make it a couple of dollars to be discreet. You will both be happier that he doesn’t have to know the intimate details of why.

  34. Katie says:

    Alan K, why are you referring to women’s irresponsibility? I can only remember, as a woman, being asked 2-3 times (I’m in my 30s) to rescue another woman this way. I don’t think you can make a serious case that none of us are responsible.

  35. Alan K says:

    Fair question, Katie. Using your own example, why did you need to aid another women, 2-3 times? Did they miss a critical session of H.S. Health Class? Isn’t this timeless biological process well-understood?

    If I choose to run out of gas frequently, would my wife not question my judgment about the capacity of a gas tank? I would be mocked mercilessly for such a misstep. Turnabout is fair play, no?

    If you detect some snark, I’m having fun with you, but the facts still stand—a failure to plan is still a failure.

  36. jgarveyrose says:

    Me an’ Prince Charles. I don’t carry ’em, just wanna BE one!

  37. Life is just so hard for women, I mean, what did they ever do before tampons? Men should be cut in their penis area, monthly, so that they too can enjoy the pain.

  38. Katie says:

    It wasn’t the same person each time. To answer your question, because sometimes life gets in the way, and some are stuck with antiquated ideas or their mothers’ failure to plan, for instance, in their teens…etc. (One mom, for example, didn’t want to buy them because there was a male cashier, leaving her daughter waiting.) Generally women have their needs beginning well before they can legally drive, and even then they don’t have the full rights and privileges of adults, so there is a degree of helplessness.

    I think many *have* failed to plan, regarding gasoline, at least in their teens or early twenties when money was an issue. I know I did, though I never actually ran out. (No, I did, in my husband’s truck, but that was much later, more of an issue of logistics, like not putting in diesel fuel one time.)

    So you see that, out of the hundreds of women I know, nearly none of them have ever needed my help.

  39. So you see that, out of the hundreds of women I know, nearly none of them have ever needed my help.

    That’s great. Now you see why such an action of trying to get boys to keep tampons on them at all times to help little girls is beyond stupid. Well done!

  40. feeriker says:

    OK. Something not all the men realize here is that cycles are NOT the same for every woman…they can actually be quite irregular.

    However, there is still a fairly simple solution to this: be ready to tend to your needs at (basically) all times. Ever read the piece of advice to keep a $20 on hand for emergencies? Why not a few tampons?

    Exactly. Back in the Dark Ages (i.e., the bad old days of abusive Patriarchy) this was called “common sense.”

    I stand by my earlier statement: any human female over the age of 11 who isn’t prepared at all times to tend to her own reproductive health maintenance is either lazy, irresponsible, or mentally retarded. (And no, the “my mother never taught me about these things” card doesn’t work either).

  41. Cane Caldo says:

    …and so, little Johnny, that’s why I banned chicks from my blog.

  42. He’s just a hapless beta-orbiter who will be so his whole life until he changes (if ever.) He just needs red pills is all…… poor kid. I feel sorry for him.

  43. Now the creepy, probably harmless guy who was always leaving flowers and teddy bears by my locker is going to be charting my cycle for me?

    I wish more women would talk this openly about how much they loathe men who worship them. Back in my pedestalizing days, that’s the one thing that might have gotten through to me. I knew they didn’t seem to want me “that way,” but if I’d known they despised me and probably laughed at my overtures as soon as my back was turned, I might have caught on much sooner.

  44. feeriker says:

    I wish more women would talk this openly about how much they loathe men who worship them.

    And let the proverbial cat out of the bag as to how they most effectively manipulate men? Perish the thought!

    Imagine Harry Houdini telling his audiences the secrets to his escape tricks right before a performance.

  45. Boxer says:

    I wish more women would talk this openly about how much they loathe men who worship them.

    This would be the most effective tactic of “redpill women,” who more often can be found attention whoring in the androsphere.

    Serious women need to start vocally shaming and mocking male feminists, if they’re truly on our side.

  46. Dave says:

    I would imagine that, in not too distant a future, guys will be carrying mirrors and make-up kits for their women, and for any other women who happened to leave home a bit too much in a hurry, and they could not apply their makeups as they normally do.
    The sad part is, once the window has closed, boys who missed the opportunity can never again learn to be truly masculine. They’ll end up going through life being certified manginas.

  47. Yeep says:

    For boys who are brought up to reject traditional masculinity and cultivate their feminine side, being confided in by a girl is a rite of passage similar to the rites of passage involving sex. The girl is sharing something intimate with you, she’s chosen you above other boys, from this time on you have knowledge that other boys don’t have. You’re bursting with pride and you don’t want to brag (because that would be too much like traditional masculinity) so you humblebrag in one way or another.

    Tampon boy is better than other boys because he understands the female experience, because girls come to him with their troubles, because he makes himself useful to girls. When you add up all the posing and status jockeying, this kind of boy isn’t all that different from the macho braggarts he thinks he’s so superior to.

    None of these things are bad in themselves. You want to be the best man you can be by some definition, you want to walk tall among your peers and be admired by women. But the system has to be in balance and satisfy our moral intuitions in the sense that Jonathan Haidt talks about.

    Does this behavior satisfy the intuition of fairness and reciprocity – it’s all well and good that he’s doing favors for his girl friends, but are they reciprocating by say sewing on buttons for him or bringing him homemade cookies from time to time?

    Especially relevant in this case is the Haidtian moral intuition of appropriate boundaries (for example between the sexes), disgust, or taboos. Unfortunately this kid has been brought up to regard taboos not as protective guiderails but as oppressive barriers to be heroically driven through.

  48. JDG says:

    Dave, Dave, Dave, … as if the instagram link wasn’t sickening enough, you have to post the Mangina Manifesto. Well here’s a different take on that disgusting piece of work (warning: profanity and more disgusting content ahead).

  49. Dale says:

    OT: Breaking news!!! Refusing to marry a promiscuous woman is now DISCRIMINATION, worthy of comparison with racism. Wonder how long until we have laws to protect against this.
    In response to a man wanting a non-promiscuous woman for marriage: “Love has no bounderies hun. No matter how many partners she has had. I swear that is a form of discrimination…lol Its like saying I will never marry her because she is a race you do not like.”
    http://www.girlsaskguys.com/sexual-health/q409485-why-do-promiscuous-women-feel-they-should-be

  50. Dalrock says:

    @Quartermaster

    Buying such things for your wife should not bother any man. No different than buying toilet paper. Attempting to use it as a selling point is pathetic.

    This is your second comment in a row declaring that manliness means buying tampons or holding purses, and I suspect you have no idea you are doing it. What you are doing is a much less obvious version of what Tampon Boy is doing, holding yourself out as a Real Man because of your comfort with tampons and purses. Your previous comment was:

    I’ve held my wife’s purse many times when it was inconvenient at a store, or other places. It wasn’t a power play on her part, nor did I feel uncomfortable about it. She always took it back when she was finished with whatever caused her to hand it to me in the first place. I didn’t see anything unmanly about, and couldn’t have cared less if some character thought it was.

    The thing is, it isn’t a power play unless it is, and either way by declaring what other men must do in this regard you are undermining them with their wives. This is what Empath calls “lift chasing”, and it is at the root of much of our current problems. Moreover, it is this kind of Being a real man means being comfortable buying tampons and holding her purse teaching by older men that has so many younger men confused. That you have on occasion held your wife’s purse or bought her feminine products doesn’t mean you aren’t a real man. Choosing to do what you believe must be done is one thing; loudly declaring that you do these things, especially declaring such things as proof of your manliness and an example for real men to follow is something different.

  51. Minesweeper says:

    If someones arms can be considered home then i wanna be in house arrest lol— Jose Angel (@falloutbooty99) May 2, 2015

  52. Minesweeper says:

    Definitely in need of a hug that one. Not sure if he has found the quickest way into a feminists pants on record or is hopelessly gay.

  53. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    My immediate thoughts…

    * Why do strong, independent women need a man to carry her tampons? Why do smart women need a man to remember to bring a tampon?

    * Maybe Tampon Boy has some kinky, sexual fetish? Does he get off sexually at home, knowing that some girl is even now bleeding into his tampon?

    * Maybe Tampon Boy is gay? Or a transvestite or transexual? But rather than come out, he seeks an excuse to publicly carry and discuss tampons? Maybe he gets off sexually, knowing that people are viewing him with tampons?

    Yes, he might be playing the sensitive White Knight, hoping it will appeal to woman. But he could also be pretending to be a White Knight, to hide his perversions.

  54. JDG says:

    Refusing to marry a promiscuous woman is now DISCRIMINATION, worthy of comparison with racism. Wonder how long until we have laws to protect against this.

    Well from the PC feminist point of view I’m already a homophobic racist, so why wouldn’t I also be whore-o-phobic slutterist? Laws shmaws, how are they going to stop MGTOW short of an oligarchic dictatorship?

  55. greyghost says:

    That kid in the article is the future CS payer on a cuckold.

  56. Laws shmaws, how are they going to stop MGTOW short of an oligarchic dictatorship?

    Its coming. She takes over on January 20th, 2017.

  57. The fact we are not sure if this is a troll from the manosphere or being promoted by women to justify this type of behavior is disturbing.

    Thirst and desperation oozes from that pic- and the young man will NEVER get what he seeks. He will waste his younger years following the FI directives and getting nowhere. Very sad. Like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

  58. Cane Caldo says:

    @Dalrock

    The thing is, it isn’t a power play unless it is

    Superb. In case Quartermaster (or anyone else) is wondering: The way to tell a power play is by balking at, or challenging, the request. If she gets angry: It is now a power play whether she was conscious of it before or not. Those are great moments to help her by pointing out that if she’s angry, then she has much bigger problems than menstruating. Will she appreciate it? Sooner or later…maybe after she’s gotten a wad into her panties…or after you’re dead. Eventually.

    either way by declaring what other men must do in this regard you are undermining them with their wives. This is what Empath calls “lift chasing”, and it is at the root of much of our current problems. Moreover, it is this kind of Being a real man means being comfortable buying tampons and holding her purse teaching by older men that has so many younger men confused.

    This is a particularly conservative form of Lift Chasing, at that. It’s super-popular with the people who are more concerned about having done the right thing (or having the right thoughts appreciated by the right people) than clearly seeing what the right thing actually is within any given situation. The introduction of rules (a system) puts a mask of virtue on a foolish face.

  59. Cane Caldo says:

    Forgot to mention that the Lift Chasing is brought about by comments like Katie’s when she said:

    OK. Something not all the men realize here is that cycles are NOT the same for every woman…they can actually be quite irregular.

    That was her opening line, and a complete non sequitur to the issue of whether or not the availability of menstrual rags should be addressed by the nearest man; or any man, for that matter. What was the reason for this comment? I propose that Katie had the feeling that a rule needed to be proposed to address her wants, and she wants a big strong man to make that happen, and to make it happen among other men.

    In other news: My jockstrap frequently needs adjusting. Have a heart, ladies.

  60. Cane Caldo says:

    @TFH

    Gents,

    Remember that the general deadline is 12/31/2015, set years ago. After this point, any man who is still exhibiting mangina behavior is not worthy of any sympathy, and fully deserves what he gets.

    Men who do damage control on situations they got into before 12/31/2015 is a different matter, but getting into a new situation that leads to future misandry, enslavement, impoverishment, or death is, generally, his own fault after that point.

    By the end of 2015, enough content has been produced, and propagated through enough sources (like Instapundit, the Men’s Rights Reddit, etc.), that if a man has not done even basic Google searching, he has failed in basic intellectual competence, and deserves what he gets.

    I have read you write this many times. You do know this is how the SoCons (which you frequently disparage) got to be SoCons, right? They see the man hurt, and say to him: “You deserved to be robbed, beaten, and enslaved.”

    That will never be the way, and never has been the way.

    Acts 7:23-29 “When he was forty years old, it came into his heart to visit his brothers, the children of Israel. And seeing one of them being wronged, he defended the oppressed man and avenged him by striking down the Egyptian. He supposed that his brothers would understand that God was giving them salvation by his hand, but they did not understand. And on the following day he appeared to them as they were quarreling and tried to reconcile them, saying, ‘Men, you are brothers. Why do you wrong each other?’ But the man who was wronging his neighbor thrust him aside, saying, ‘Who made you a ruler and a judge over us? Do you want to kill me as you killed the Egyptian yesterday?’ At this retort Moses fled and became an exile in the land of Midian, where he became the father of two sons.

    Of course, to the world this is foolish.

  61. Dale says:

    @JDG
    >why wouldn’t I also be whore-o-phobic slutterist?

    That PC term is fantastic. LOL

  62. Katie says:

    Ha. @Cane Caldo, no. I’m married and have almost never had my man pick up anything like that for me (the exception being a painful miscarriage during which I did not want to walk into the store and handle the transaction). But I realize that the flip side of anyone being whoever they want on the internet is that one can never really prove who one is, either, so I won’t lose sleep if everyone believes I’m still single and desperate.

    Point taken on the non sequitur. I just thought it was odd how many men were declaring how women’s cycles worked.

    I still think the idea of a man carrying tampons for women is more than a little bizarre. To say that THEY should remember because the women may not is ridiculous.

  63. Tilikum says:

    How can you trust anything that bleeds for 5 days and doesn’t die?

  64. JDG says:

    Dale – I just realized I made a typo. That should read: why wouldn’t I also be a whore-o-phobic slutterist?

    I shall hence forth be labeled by the PC crowd a bigoted, racist, sexist, homophobic, whore-o-phobic, slutterist. Oh the shame of it all.

  65. greyghost says:

    Cane Caldo
    I agree with TFH and I think part of the message is to let men know it is irresponsible. Sometimes I will watch a conversation of the men here going over finding the ideal woman with the goal of minimizing the risk of her behaving and feeling as a typical woman under the current laws. I ta silly wishful drill. As it stands now any man worth more than the cost of having 2 children with a surrogate and marries to have a family is a fool that has it coming to him. Not only I his wealth taken from him the children he thought where gong to benefit from him being “fair” playing house are taken to enjoy life as children of a single mom. MGTOW is the way of the intelligent man and with the yes means yes laws coming into state law a man at a given point A man cannot be a victim but an actual chump that has it coming to him.
    Men that have issue with the idea of men being at fault for being eaten by the misandry monster need to spend all effort spreading the red pill.

  66. mrteebs says:

    Because, of course, women cannot be expected to be fully responsible for their own personal hygiene and carry a purse or bag with the essentials. They need a willing boy Friday to assist. And not just a willing one, but a sympathetic one who will lament that there aren’t more like him.

    Yes, we certainly need more males that can navigate and govern the entirety of their lives from a female vantage point. It is not enough to have feminized every institution from media to jurisprudence to familial to educational. We must now ensure that men themselves become “pink.”

  67. Dalrock says:

    @Grehghost

    I agree with TFH and I think part of the message is to let men know it is irresponsible. Sometimes I will watch a conversation of the men here going over finding the ideal woman with the goal of minimizing the risk of her behaving and feeling as a typical woman under the current laws. I ta silly wishful drill. As it stands now any man worth more than the cost of having 2 children with a surrogate and marries to have a family is a fool that has it coming to him. Not only I his wealth taken from him the children he thought where gong to benefit from him being “fair” playing house are taken to enjoy life as children of a single mom. MGTOW is the way of the intelligent man and with the yes means yes laws coming into state law a man at a given point A man cannot be a victim but an actual chump that has it coming to him.
    Men that have issue with the idea of men being at fault for being eaten by the misandry monster need to spend all effort spreading the red pill.

    Marriage, morality, and civilization are too important to simply walk away from. I don’t fault a man who decides the risk/reward equation of marriage isn’t worth taking. But a man who doesn’t understand the risks and gets crushed by the system doesn’t deserve to get crushed, and a man who understands the risks and rides out anyway (while attempting to manage the risks) isn’t a fool.

  68. JDG says:

    Only when it’s a “pink” world can the feminist utopia begin to be realized. It’s only after men are pinkified (TM – lozolloz) that women can “truly” be blue.

  69. This is a particularly conservative form of Lift Chasing, at that. It’s super-popular with the people who are more concerned about having done the right thing (or having the right thoughts appreciated by the right people) than clearly seeing what the right thing actually is within any given situation. The introduction of rules (a system) puts a mask of virtue on a foolish face.

    I’m glad you wrote this. I hadn’t thought about Lift Chasing behaviors in terms outside of those that provoke me to use the label. Now as you’ve sub-categorized it and helped me realize that The Lift can explain lots of things that fall under, for example, political correctness. Politics, diet, education, things people nod at mindlessly when discussed and treat the discussion as if its a tangible action that helps people with whatever the subject matter is. Its a lapel pin or a rubber bracelet, its any kind of advocacy that is worn on the sleeve rather than done with rolled up sleeves.

    It requires adjusting the metaphor because The Lift, remember, comes from the moment when the panting girl you were squirming in the back seat with (I’m middle aged, back seats were big, I lived rural) decides to lift up so the pants can slide down. I can’t take credit for the term, only its broader application. The term was coined by Steve Dahl and Gary Meyer, contemporaries of Jonathon Brandmeier, all three were Titans of Chicago shock radio in the 80’s.

    So men seeking the approval of other men in a Lift Chasing way stay true to the functionality if not the details of the metaphor.

    Dalrock is correct. Declarations of manliness born of those limited overt gestures is raw Lift Chasing because it will stir up some estrogen. it will not, however, mean much to men reading it. What I mean is, the ultimate Lift Chase is one that gets female approval AND has men actually feeling some deficiency in themselves, causing Lift Chasing-the contagion-to spread to other men. its hard to imagine a man really feeling inadequate knowing that Paul the purse carrier aka Tommy the tampon shopper is on the scene.

    The Lift Chase is indeed a root problem because it is motivated by the sex drive. The sex drive leads men into problems, obviously. Those who resist the physical giving over to it find succor in unfettered Lift Chasing.

  70. Quartermaster

    My wife’s purse is bigger than your wife’s purse

    Hhmpf!

  71. sestamibi says:

    Once upon a time teenage boys carried condoms in their wallets just in case they ever got lucky. Now I suppose they’ll be expected to carry them for the convenience of girls banging someone else, no doubt an alpha badboy.

  72. JDG says:

    Gender 2a (red-pill men), and Gender 2b (manginas).

    That’s like saying: Masculine 2a (red-pill men), and Masculine 2b (manginas). I hate it when we use “gender” for “sex” because feminist use that all the time to push their illogical theories.

    I don’t care about expiration dates. If a guy doesn’t know, he doesn’t know. The world is full of self-afflicted retards (for lurkers I’m a non-PC bigot, so I still use words like retard), even if he deserves what he gets (and I’m not saying he does or doesn’t), he is still going to get my sympathy if/when he comes around. Most of us were fools at one time or another, and most of us still are only in different contexts.

  73. Kim says:

    It would never even occur to me to ask my husband to pick up tampons for me. That would be like him asking me to pick him up a nose hair trimmer.

  74. greyghost says:

    The only reason to get married is to have children. If a man has children and raises his children he has done civilization right. Everything that marriage brings to civilization is taken care of.

  75. Boxer says:

    Dear Dalrock, Grey Ghost, TFH:

    But a man who doesn’t understand the risks and gets crushed by the system doesn’t deserve to get crushed, and a man who understands the risks and rides out anyway (while attempting to manage the risks) isn’t a fool.

    To call such a man a fool, is to insult one’s own father and grandfather. I get where some of y’all are coming from, really. It’s a horrific system. Even so, marriage and fatherhood is what keeps civilization humming.

    It’s easy, cheap, and (in my opinion) cowardly to refuse to support these men who know all the risks and stand up anyway. The least that the rest of us can do is not insult them, as they try to keep a viable culture alive.

    It’s also interesting that you guys think we can segue right into artificial placentae and sexbots, without losing something essential in humanity. These are very radical social experiments you guys are cheering for — on par with the weirdest stuff feminists agitate for. I’d be amazed if such a transition happened without a ton of blowback, in ways no one can anticipate.

    Best,

    Boxer

  76. Boxer says:

    Dear TFH:

    I think a committed mangina does, in fact, deserve to get crushed, since he is an officer of the system.

    You’re right. SJW fags and male feminists need to suffer; With respect, though, I don’t think that’s the average redpill dude we tend to talk about here on this board.

    There are a lot of men here who really want to get married. Many others (Scott is a good example) have sons and daughters who are on their way to being solid people. We should be helpful — or at least not be a hindrance — to their efforts. One of the obvious ways we can be helpful is to morally support these dudes.

    Yes, some of them may end up in divorce court, despite doing everything right. I would like to think I’ll be here to help such a man strategize about how to minimize his losses and keep in contact with his kids. I often wish my own father had a group like this one when my bio mom decided to kidnap me. It probably would have been a huge help. In the meantime, the ones who make it will raise up functional kids who can help build the new society on the shitheap that is this collapsing one. We will need such men and women in the next generation, and they can’t be grown in a laboratory.

    Best,

    Boxer

  77. BC says:

    The ex once called me at work and as I was supposed to stop at the store on the way home from work, she asked me to add tampons to my list. I normally considered that her business so I wasn’t that familiar with her preferred brand. Hence it shouldn’t surprise anyone that I got confused when standing in front of the display and picked the wrong box. For which I was excoriated. On the bright side, she never asked me to do that again.

    Should have handed her one white sock.
    And then deadpanned, “And there’s one more, too, if you need it. They were selling them in pairs.”

  78. Boxer says:

    Then again, they probably did not spend that much time together, what with her ‘lean in’ tours, etc.

    If you read her speeches with a discerning eye, you get the distinct impression that she is a closet dyke. I’m surprised that she has kids.

  79. jew613 says:

    TFH, the difference between smoking and the red pill is we are living in an FI society where the Cathedral does everything to hide the reality from men. It would be great if every man discovered the red pill but when every nerve center of society is lying to men its difficult to learn the truth without personal usually bad experiences. Whereas smoking being bad for you is common knowledge.

  80. Boxer says:

    Off topic:

    McMaster University is giving full-time faculty members a sizable raise this summer, with one qualification: they’re all women. The Canadian university is turning talk about its gender pay gap into action, tacking $3,515 (about $2,900 U.S.) onto the salaries of its female professors…

    Much more at
    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/04/30/mcmaster-u-addresses-gender-pay-gap-3500-raises-female-faculty-members

  81. You know, they talk about returning manufacturing to the U.S., about building great ships, buildings, refurbishing our roads, infrastructure and schools. But where are the men going to come from to DO these things? Women don’t do these things, MEN do. And they’re all absorbed and diluted with feminine pursuits. I guess it’s over for us. Without men, our systems die out, rot, pass from functionality.

  82. It is harder to be a clueless man, or a fence-sitter.

    I find it very hard to judge that from this side of the curtain. I only spend time on web sites that are red-pill in one way or another, and most of the people I know in real life are at least partially clued in. Everyone I spend much time with has rejected mainstream thinking on at least one topic, usually on several. So sometimes I start to feel like the information is really getting out there and becoming common knowledge.

    And then I’ll go to a family get-together or something, and it’s like stepping back through time. There will be people talking Democrat-Republican politics like it’s 1980, or complaining that the public schools don’t say the Pledge anymore (but they also need more funding), or talking about how men are always leaving their wives and something should be done about it. Suddenly I realize that maybe the truth isn’t getting out there very fast at all, and it only seems that way inside my bubble.

    Sure, the information is out there if you look for it, but how do you know to look? I don’t remember what my first clue was, and I’m sort of a natural “look it up if you’re curious” kind of guy anyway. I suspect most people need to be nudged by another person first and given a little direction, because it just won’t occur to them to type “Why does my life suck?” into a search engine. So how much of that kind of nudging is going on out there, away from our manosphere bubbles? I don’t know.

  83. feeriker says:

    In other news, Sheryl Sandberg’s husband has died

    I was going to say “See? There is a merciful God!”, but that would’ve been crass and in poor taste, so I didn’t.

  84. Will S. says:

    LOL @ feeriker.🙂

  85. feeriker says:

    And then I’ll go to a family get-together or something, and it’s like stepping back through time. There will be people talking Democrat-Republican politics like it’s 1980, or complaining that the public schools don’t say the Pledge anymore (but they also need more funding), or talking about how men are always leaving their wives and something should be done about it. Suddenly I realize that maybe the truth isn’t getting out there very fast at all, and it only seems that way inside my bubble.

    Sounds like my extended family. And yes, you did step back in time. It’s always 1955 in Tradconland.

  86. Pingback: Father Knows Best: Early May Edition | Patriactionary

  87. Eric says:

    Typical prog hypocrisy, like public school supporters who send their kids to private schools…

    And who love, love black people but move to the whitest neighborhood they can afford.

  88. greyghost says:

    As a society we don’t insult men that marry. We put restraining orders on them. We make tv shows about them being so stupid his wife has to bail him out, we accuse them of DV, and throw them in jail when they can make the payments on imputed income. If they don’t like jail the cops will just shoot them. We got to see that at a national scale and the cop got arrested for that one.
    As far as losing something in humanity with a sexbot, I don’t think it is possible to lose any more. Besides that as soon as the radical do it with out her stuff really get understood and felt by women they will as individuals resort to being pleasant as a method of survival and tool of hypergamy.

  89. bcubedla says:

    Another Roger Elliot in the making. This kid needs an intervention.

  90. bcubedla says:

    Just replace tampon with condoms. Condoms dispensed by him for girls to give to the guys the will be fucking.

  91. Did his mom make him post this on Instagram? The way (s)he writes is a clue.

  92. Dave says:


    Its coming. She takes over on January 20th, 2017.

    You wrote as if it’s a fait accompli. Well it is not. As a matter of fact I’d be surprised if Clinton ever becomes president in my lifetime.

    This sentence is by the decree of the angelic watchers And the decision is a command of the holy ones, In order that the living may know That the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind, And bestows it on whom He wishes And sets over it the lowliest of men
    Daniel 4:17

  93. Random Angeleno says:
    The ex once called me at work and as I was supposed to stop at the store on the way home from work, she asked me to add tampons to my list. I normally considered that her business so I wasn’t that familiar with her preferred brand. Hence it shouldn’t surprise anyone that I got confused when standing in front of the display and picked the wrong box. For which I was excoriated. On the bright side, she never asked me to do that again.

    Should have handed her one white sock.
    And then deadpanned, “And there’s one more, too, if you need it. They were selling them in pairs.”

    thinking I coulda just told her to raid my sock drawer …

  94. The idea is utterly inane and the boy’s parents should be ashamed for having given birth to such a moron:

    o The girls have a need and should show enough responsibility to handle it themselves. In doubt, just put a tampon dispenser in the bathroom.

    o By the same type of reasoning, everyone would end up carrying a ridiculous amount of goods just in case someone needs something. What about constantly carrying a snack in case one sees a diabetic having an attack? An extra cell-phone battery for a caller who might run low? [a thousand-and-one other items for a thousand-and-one other needs.] Batman’s utility belt would be insufficient.

  95. Scott says:

    And then I’ll go to a family get-together or something, and it’s like stepping back through time. There will be people talking Democrat-Republican politics like it’s 1980, or complaining that the public schools don’t say the Pledge anymore (but they also need more funding), or talking about how men are always leaving their wives and something should be done about it. Suddenly I realize that maybe the truth isn’t getting out there very fast at all, and it only seems that way inside my bubble.

    This is precisely my experience as well. On my last assignment, there was a guy in an office down the hall from me who had Dalrock open his computer screen and I stuck up a conversation. He said “that’s cool that you are Scott from the courtship pledge. I like that site too.” We had several pretty good conversations, but that was just one guy.

    Most of the time, it is more like the above.

  96. Did you explain that you asked all of the nice ladies in the store which would be best for a heavy flow

    Yes, They all said they didn’t know her.

  97. John Nesteutes says:

    It sure is easy to stand out as a “masculine man” these days.

    Not long ago I stayed with a damy who has 9 daughters, around half of them post-pubescent. It never occurred to me until now to think about this, but there was zero evidence anywhere of any kind of menses. Nothing in trash cans in the full bathroom, the half bathroom, etc.

    I associate with women who take female modesty seriously and that includes their reproductive cycle being absolutely hidden from anyone other than their husband’s or mother’s.

  98. John Nesteutes says:

    @Scott, remember the part in the Matrix about how most people aren’t ready to be unplugged?

  99. Suddenly I realize that maybe the truth isn’t getting out there very fast at all, and it only seems that way inside my bubble.

    Truth vs. The Lift. I know its a broken record, but to openly embrace red pill reality is to eschew further Lift rushes. Those who are aware realize that instead of The Lift, they get the antonym….The Drop. Female disapproval, with concurrent male hangers on expressing their disapproval as well because in full circle their disapproval is chum for their own Lift Chasing.

    Maybe the most disturbing reaction to the truth is The Glaze….can’t be bothered with it. When hearing the red pill truth the man all but thinks, “I got my new blades and regular Saturday 7AM tee time, I have deep friendships with other men where we run hypothetical NBA/NFL trades or recruitment or high school superstars college choices and oh that coach Mr. Raging Arse is gonna turn that program around, You know…..deeply inter male relational stuff. My wife LETS me take that May fishing trip with my buds, I can kill it on a brisket and the whole neighborhood knows it,”…..His eyes dull like a milky second lid closing over it. He can’t be bothered. This guy doesnt chase The Lift, he doesn’t risk The Drop…..he is content in The Glaze. Maybe this dude is least reachable of all.

  100. Casey says:

    This just in……….harpy Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg has just lost her husband David Goldberg.
    David Goldberg died suddenly at age 47 on Friday.

    I have made no bones about my dislike for Sheryl Sandberg, as she is part of the propaganda machinery duping young women into becoming feminists with her pathetic book ‘Lean In’.

    Honestly, how does the writings of an filthy-rich Silicon valley power-executive translate over to the average American? How she & her late husband raise their 2 children simply does not overlay on the lives of average people.

    Perhaps now she will feel the true void of the lack of a male influence on her children. Maybe then she can appreciate what men have to offer the world.

    I would not be surprised if Sandberg’s feminist ideals didn’t put him into an early grave.

  101. Just Saying says:

    harpy Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg has just lost her husband David Goldberg.

    I assume you mean, she drove him to an early grave rather than him growing a brain and high-tailing it to the hills with a young piece of trim… Typical…

    He wouldn’t be dead if he had been plowing young women every weekend. Tends to keep you in shape as you care about your looks and physical prowess. But when you’re married to a harpy – you’re just counting the days till you die. So he croaked off early – good riddance… Let his life be a lesson to men – marry and die… Fuck young women and live like a king. Your choice…

  102. feeriker says:

    Perhaps now she will feel the true void of the lack of a male influence on her children. Maybe then she can appreciate what men have to offer the world.

    No disrespect for the dead intended, but it’s just as likely she’ll feel “liberated” from the suffocating confines of marriage to a beta schlub and will start doubling down on FI misandry, along with trying to jump back on the carousel. Within 9 months it’ll be “David? David who?”

    The English language lacks words adrquately powerful to describe how sorry I feel for their kids.

  103. hoellenhund2 says:

    Marriage, morality, and civilization are too important to simply walk away from.

    Western men didn’t walk away from marriage, morality and civilization. Marriage, morality and civilization walked away from them.

  104. Beeker says:

    Marriage is the largest, longest running transfer of wealth scam in human history (from men to women, lawyers, judges and the state). In the past 40+ years, tens upon tens of millions of men’s lives have been destroyed through marriage. Every year, hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of men are led through the meat grinder of divorce. In 2012, there were 2.4 million divorces.

    Men are disposable. Their only value to women is in what they can provide financially to women. The rewards for men in marriage are not worth the common, life-destroying outcome that divorce will likely have in their lives.

    Should men get married?

    Absolutely not. Spend some time on the MGTOW sites and you’ll understand why. Ignore this information at your own peril. You could be happily married for decades, only to have your wife drop the nuclear bomb of divorce on you at 20, 30 or 40 years. “Grey divorce” is the fastest growing category of divorce. Women commonly file for divorce after having affairs, often claim domestic violence and then get the house, car, half of your pension, alimony and your testicles. You move into a shitty part of town into a shitty one room apartment, or into your car, with hopefully enough money to each once a day. How’s that for retirement? Think your ex-wife will care how badly she destroyed your life? Nope. She’ll be happily screwing some other guy, in your former bed, in the house you paid for, all the white laughing at what a naïve idiot you were to marry her in the first place. Men are disposable. Their only value to women is in what they can provide financially to women.

    Should men cohabit with women?
    Not without a solid cohabitation agreement. British Columbia recently applied rights to alimony and child support through cohabitation. You get this, right? You move in with a women who has kids from another man, shack up for a couple years and POW – they’re now your kids and she’s now your wife. She can dump you and file for alimony and child support. Don’t think this happens? Don’t be a fool. It happens all of the time. The same law that Canada imposed will be imposed in the US. Think I’m wrong? The ACA just shifted the cost of birth control, abortion and maternity care onto men’s insurance premium. Don’t be that fool. Men are disposable. Their only value to women is in what they can provide financially to women.

    Is dating single women with kids wise?
    Only if you want to end up paying child support for her kids at some point to an ex-girlfriend you now deeply hate. Think it doesn’t happen? Don’t be that fool. It happens all of the time. Men are disposable. Their only value to women is in what they can provide financially to women.

    Should I have a paternity test done after childbirth?

    Absolutely. Some studies claim that up to 30% of children are not the biological child of the claimed father. Men are disposable. Their only value to women is in what they can provide financially to women.

    The future is just going to get harder and harder for men. More and more gynocentric, misandric laws and policies, inspired by feminists and enforced by mangina/naive white knights will be imposed.

    As a man, you must learn how to protect yourself in the new world. To get a history of gynocentrism, misandry, and white knighting, visit gynocentrism.com. There are a plethora of MGTOW sites in cyberspace. Read, read and then read some more. The alternative is to be naïve and to be destroyed by women.

    Don’t become one of the tens upon tens of millions of men who, in recent times, have had their present and future decimated by the marriage trap.

  105. Beeker says:

    There are good girls out there. But how does one identify one of these good women? What happens if the relationship and marriage goes bad? Women can become quite hateful and vindictive.

    Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

    Women can be incredibly mean, remorseless, spiteful, deceitful and manipulative. I’ve seen some of the most seemingly sweetest, angelic, sweet-as-pie women turn into harpies and harridans. Women can completely destroy a man in todays’ legal environment. And with a 50% divorce rate, this is a very real possibility. I’m surprised that men even marry today, but I project that the marriage rate will decrease in the future as more men learn.

    Would you eat at a restaurant that had a 50% chance of making you sick and killing you from food poisoning?

    Would you fly on a plane that had a 50% chance of crashing?

    Would you travel on a boat that had a 50% chance of sinking?

  106. zdr01dz says:

    This kid might be a serial killer. I’m not kidding.

  107. Gunner Q says:

    Cail Corishev @ 9:59 pm:
    “And then I’ll go to a family get-together or something, and it’s like stepping back through time. There will be people talking Democrat-Republican politics like it’s 1980, or complaining that the public schools don’t say the Pledge anymore (but they also need more funding), or talking about how men are always leaving their wives and something should be done about it. Suddenly I realize that maybe the truth isn’t getting out there very fast at all, and it only seems that way inside my bubble.”

    I see both sides of the argument in coastal Kalifornia. Guys like the lumbersexuals, they’re obviously seeing the glitches in the Matrix and struggling to find the answers despite the Manosphere going mainstream.

    For us Christians, going out to where they are has been a part of evangelism ever since Christ deployed the Forty. That’s a good attitude for evangelizing other causes as well. We can’t just assume they should have clued in by now even if, in most cases, the assumption would save us a lot of time and effort.

    I feel a sudden urge to dress up as a lumbersexual, crash a Berkeley retreat and pass out red sugar pills. Might not be a half-bad idea, actually. Follow the white rabbit…

  108. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    I remember a news story from long ago. Maybe the 1990s? It happened somewhere in the Midwest.

    A woman told her husband she intended to divorce him. So he immediately got a bulldozer and bulldozed their house into the ground.

    A cop stood by watching it. He didn’t interfere. He said, “It’s not illegal to destroy your own house.”

  109. Dave says:

    A woman told her husband she intended to divorce him. So he immediately got a bulldozer and bulldozed their house into the ground.

    Did she go through with her threat after this incident?

  110. Dave,

    Its coming. She takes over on January 20th, 2017.

    You wrote as if it’s a fait accompli. Well it is not. As a matter of fact I’d be surprised if Clinton ever becomes president in my lifetime.

    I hope you are right Dave.

  111. Dale says:

    @ Dalrock and TFH
    >Now, a naive blue-pill guy with good intentions does not deserve to get crushed, but there is an expiry date.

    I have to agree that Dalrock is correct in principle, that “Marriage, morality, [healthy children] and civilization are too important to simply walk away from.” Other than blind optimism however, I am not sure how I can see how I can plan to have a good marriage, unless she has such upstanding character that I can give her a loaded gun, and trust her not only to not shoot me today, but also to choose to not shoot me at any point in the next 40 years. Quite the high bar to set.

    TFH however is, unfortunately, wrong about the idea that all men should know. Yes, all men should know. But in my early twenties, I do not think I ever thought about having a “Christian” woman divorce me and take my children. Maybe the thought occurred, but it was not a regular thought or a pressing concern. I was an idealistic young man. I wanted a wife and children. I focused on achieving a high-paying job to attain the ability to provide for my future family. And I do not think it is reasonable to think the current crop of young men will not be idealistic, focusing on the desire for wife and children. It is an important part of our emotional natures.
    I know some men are aware. And I do speak about this with some younger guys. But the idealism is still there. And to a significant point, idealism is a benefit to us. Imagine if men, in general, did not seek the best, or to improve their families and environments, or were never willing to take risks for a better tomorrow… Is that really a better world?

    It may be better to invest in the research for family trusts or whatever options, so we can provide solutions instead of just warnings that the idealist ignores. Telling an idealist, “you have no reasonable chance of guaranteeing and achieving a stable, life-long marriage, so do not even try”, will not be very effective. Telling him, “there are huge risks; here is a way to act to minimize those risks, as you proceed forward” is, I think, much more likely to succeed.
    Yes, there is Game, but most Christian men, myself included, see the PUAs as immoral. Plus, while I understand the idea of working to make myself more attractive, I also know I cannot maintain a perfect image for decades, never growing old, never getting sick, never losing my income through job-loss or deteriorating health.

    Dalrock has previously written about the marriage risk of “active Evangelicals”; the rate was 38% divorce versus ~50% generally. So marrying a religious person does not cut it.
    John N claims plain Anabaptists have 0.3% divorce, but without living on a commune, separate from the world, I do not see how this would continue. And to be blunt, I have no desire to be a farmer. I work with my mind, as many of us “geeks” do, and I would find that work boring and unchallenging. If we live in the city, how would I insulate her from her immoral neighbours?
    Foreign women were not raised in this toxic environment, although some warn that she may acclimatize to her “rights” here, so this is seen as a delaying action, rather than a preventative action.

    My best thought at this point for pursuing success is the family trust. If it works, it would protect the home, any large assets, and give partial protection from child support and alimony. Anyone have a better idea for how to achieve success?

    @JDG
    >Most of us were fools at one time or another, and most of us still are only in different contexts.

    Thanks for the reminder. Titus 3:3 shows Paul saying the same, and I do not see him acting as a coward or a worshipper of women.
    “At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures.”

    We all start out naive and uninformed.

    Boxer, thanks for some wise comments at 9:06 and 9:14. +1

    Greyghost pointed out that women will adapt, if sexbots become acceptable substitutes. This is one way I see to achieve big changes — by giving the women incentives to choose differently. If 20% of men consistently refused interest in women, maybe things would change for the better.

  112. Dale, everyone….

    I have to agree that Dalrock is correct in principle, that “Marriage, morality, [healthy children] and civilization are too important to simply walk away from.” Other than blind optimism however, I am not sure how I can see how I can plan to have a good marriage, unless she has such upstanding character that I can give her a loaded gun, and trust her not only to not shoot me today, but also to choose to not shoot me at any point in the next 40 years. Quite the high bar to set.

    What needs to happen is an articulate, intelligent, lucid, wealthy, and most importantly very attractive red pill man has to fall on the sword for all mankind. In some kind of public service message that will reach millions of people (millions that don’t know of the manosphere) like say the Today Show, or NBC/ABC/CBS Nightly News, something that reaches millions that would be recorded and put on youtube to reach millions more for decades to come, this man has to destroy his own life and obliterate any possible future at a happily married Christian life by calmly explaining why men aren’t marrying and what must be done to get men to marry. And it CAN’T be someone like this guy….

    ….all ordinary blue pill people see when they see a red pill MRA man like Dean (no matter how well spoken Dean is) is that he is an ugly, poor, uneducated, disgustingly fat man, who can’t get laid and probably hates all women because they will never f-ck him/marry him, so to hell with him and any point he ever could have made. In a public forum like this discussing anything about the evil wrought by feminism, this is NOT the spokes person we need. He will be dismissed, ignored, teased, poked fun of. We need a great looking guy (a guy who can get laid anytime he wants, anywhere) a guy who any woman in the world would love to marry, a wealthy guy who will fall on the sword and be crucified in a Christlike manner to save us all from damnation…. literally. This guy needs to state exactly why he’ll never marry (because of unilateral divorce law) and if women (particularly feminist women) want to change the marriage trends and reverse their forever decline to get men LIKE HIM to ante up and marry them, then they have to change the laws with a Constitutional Amendment ending forever unilateral divorce. Women have to voluntarily give up their “threatpoint” by electing legislators who (at the Federal level) end this nonsense. But whoever this guy is, he has to know that by going into the lions den that way, that women of the world will collectively hate him for him correctly laying the blame at the feet of feminism. He destroys his own future with women.

    That is what we need. Who is this guy if not Bill Maher?

  113. Dave says:

    What needs to happen is an articulate, intelligent, lucid, wealthy, and most importantly very attractive red pill man has to fall on the sword for all mankind.

    The sad part of all this is that even after this man has stood up to this hateful movement, the feminists will still have a way to get around it, and say that was just his personal opinion. Feminism is built, developed and woven on one hundred per cent lies.
    And, standing up to feminism does not have to be as destructive as this, actually, and in most cases will not be. A principled stand will probably cause an uproar for a few weeks, but the effects will be probably short-lived.

  114. anonymous_ng says:

    RPL “A woman told her husband she intended to divorce him. So he immediately got a bulldozer and bulldozed their house into the ground. ”

    But, I saw a headline recently where a guy was arrested for burning down his own house because he thought his wife was cheating (found it).
    http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/bond-set-for-my-wife-is-a-cheater-graffiti-arson-suspect-william-eugene-lindauer-iii

    He was arrested for arson, so apparently burning down your own house is not legal.

  115. feeriker says:

    innocentbystanderboston says:
    May 3, 2015 at 3:22 pm

    You might as well hope to win the lottery four consecutive times. Even IF a Christian George Clooney clone were to do what you advocate, he would suffer the same reaction Dean Esmay did in that Fox TV interview – or maybe even worse if he’s a celebrity with a well-established reputation. The ONLY effective threat point for the status quo is complete and total systemic and civilizational collapse. Those who hold power will NOT give it up voluntarily, ever. It has to be wrested away from them and complete entropic collapse of the existing order is the only effective way to make that happen.

  116. greyghost says:

    IBB
    Women will not give up anything for any reason other than selfish interest. Far better the man speak to men and force feed the red pill. Ignorance is not bliss and men need total ignorance to be lied to. Once the truth has been spoken most men will take their own lives and run the truth across it and the light bulbs of the ah ha moment will shine. BTW when this happens the bible instantly will become popular. Speak od male birth control pills, just reading the laws of misandry and explaining how laws are enforced will be a red pill moment.
    One of the was to speak to teen age girls is to tell them the advice a man will give to teenage boys and explain why as if you are talking to the boy. Never put a woman in any kind of role of responsibility always allow their natural wicked selfishness to direct their behavior. Make that broken clock is always on time when you look at it. That is the best women are capable of.

  117. The Brass Cat says:

    Boxer says:

    To call such a man a fool, is to insult one’s own father and grandfather. I get where some of y’all are coming from, really. It’s a horrific system. Even so, marriage and fatherhood is what keeps civilization humming.

    It’s easy, cheap, and (in my opinion) cowardly to refuse to support these men who know all the risks and stand up anyway. The least that the rest of us can do is not insult them, as they try to keep a viable culture alive.

    To attempt marriage and legitimate fatherhood is to take a big risk. It shouldn’t be, but these are the times we live in. Our civilization needs risk-takers.

    One way to conceptualize risk-taking is to consider the high failure rate of start-up businesses. The failure rate doesn’t deter every entrepreneur, and when they take that risk they create value for everyone. Any man approaching marriage (or business) needs to go in with eyes wide open to all the risks involved and find ways to mitigate those risks where possible. Being red-pill won’t inoculate a husband from frivorce but it should at least prevent him from being blind-sided, and maybe give him a chance at a preemptive strike.

    MGTOWs can go on insulting those doing the heavy lifting and taking the risks because insults are trivial when you’re up against the weight of the FI and the whole Injustice System.

  118. Novaseeker says:

    Dale, everyone….

    @IBB —

    Unfortunately not. Any spokesman would be easily discredited, and certainly someone like Maher would simply be trashed without any further ado, based on other things he has said in the past.

    The reality is this. We are experiencing the death throes of a regime/society. The ancient Greeks wrote of the “cycle of regimes”, with the baseline takeaway that no regime lasts forever. There is a cycle that seems to start going downward with peak prosperity, although the speed of the decline varies greatly. However the variance of the speed, though, the end is not variable.

    Later political thinkers have had interesting insights into the specific issues that indicate our own terminal decline.

    Escoffier recently shared with me a few select quotes from Monesquieu’s classic treatise “The Spirit of the Laws” (1748). In pertinent part:

    Book VII, Chapter 8. Of public Continency. So many are the imperfections that attend the loss of virtue in women, and so greatly are their minds depraved when this principal guard is removed, that in a popular state public incontinency may be considered as the last of miseries, and as a certain forerunner of a change in the constitution.

    Hence it is that the sage legislators of republican states have ever required of women a particular gravity of manners. They have proscribed not only vice, but the very appearance of it. They have banished even all commerce of gallantry — a commerce that produces idleness, that renders the women corrupters, even before they are corrupted, that gives a value to trifles, and debases things of importance: a commerce, in fine, that makes people act entirely by the maxims of ridicule, in which the women are so perfectly skilled.

    9. Of the Condition or State of Women in different Governments. In monarchies women are subject to very little restraint, because as the distinction of ranks calls them to court, there they assume a spirit of liberty, which is almost the only one tolerated in that place. Each courtier avails himself of their charms and passions, in order to advance his fortune: and as their weakness admits not of pride, but of vanity, luxury constantly attends them.

    In despotic governments women do not introduce, but are themselves an object of, luxury. They must be in a state of the most rigorous servitude. Every one follows the spirit of the government, and adopts in his own family the customs he sees elsewhere established. As the laws are very severe and executed on the spot, they are afraid lest the liberty of women should expose them to danger. Their quarrels, indiscretions, repugnancies, jealousies, piques, and that art, in fine, which little souls have of interesting great ones, would be attended there with fatal consequences.

    Besides, as princes in those countries make a sport of human nature, they allow themselves a multitude of women; and a thousand considerations oblige them to keep those women in close confinement.

    In republics women are free by the laws and restrained by manners; luxury is banished thence, and with it corruption and vice.

    In the cities of Greece, where they were not under the restraint of a religion which declares that even amongst men regularity of manners is a part of virtue; where a blind passion triumphed with a boundless insolence, and love appeared only in a shape which we dare not mention, while marriage was considered as nothing more than simple friendship;18 such was the virtue, simplicity, and chastity of women in those cities, that in this respect hardly any people were ever known to have had a better and wiser polity.

    Cooked, gents. Cooked.

    The option right now is *personal*, not *collective*. The collective goose is well and truly cooked.

  119. Dave says:

    A miserable Mother’s Day made me cheat on my husband.

    [D: I fixed the link. Let me know if this wasn’t the article you had in mind.]

  120. Dave says:

    He was arrested for arson, so apparently burning down your own house is not legal.
    It shouldn’t be, unless the man subsequently decides to make a claim from the insurance company.

  121. Dave says:

    The option right now is *personal*, not *collective*. The collective goose is well and truly cooked.

    I know it sounds rather stupid, but I am not giving up on this country at all. If all true Christians were to begin, even today, and make a decided stand with the Scriptures, and refuse to be silenced, they will have a positive and lasting effects on society. I have said it before and I still maintain the view, that the real culprit here are not the politicians, the law courts, the gays, the feminist movement and other negative influences on society. Those have always been present throughout the ages.
    The biggest problem that we have is a backslidden and a thoroughly weakened Church which no longer stands for the truth, nor proclaims the truth under the anointing of the Holy Spirit. That is he problem in society. Until the Church wakes up, America is doomed. Indeed, the world is doomed.
    The antichrist, who is going to be a Muslim, and a man of lawlessness, will soon appear on the world’s scene.

  122. Boxer says:

    Dear Brass Cat:

    MGTOWs can go on insulting those doing the heavy lifting and taking the risks because insults are trivial when you’re up against the weight of the FI and the whole Injustice System.

    Right on all counts. Bear in mind, though, I’m MGTOW, and I don’t insult them.

    If anything, a part of an authentic MGTOW life is the recognition that one’s brother’s way is not your own. Every man has his own way.

    Some men choose to marry. They know the risks. I’ll warn them, but will never stop them or presume to pass judgment. I’ll also be supportive, but not surprised, if/when some of them get taken to the cleaners.

    Some dudes like to go skydiving every weekend. I used to race motorbikes. Most of us, if we’re honest, can admit to having a “dangerous” hobby or lifestyle, at least as teenagers. The point is not to stay in a padded cocoon all day, but to take reasonable precautions and prepare always for the worst, while living an authentic life for yourself.

    Best,

    Boxer

  123. Nova, greyghost, feeriker, Dale,

    Women will not give up anything for any reason other than selfish interest.

    Truer world have never been spoken gg. Which is why women (the pretty single women) need to understand that it is THEIR FAULT that the really great guys are not marrying them. They need to see what they are missing when a great looking guy points at state unilateral divorce law and says “…I will never marry you because you and others like you voted for laws like these…” and that does NOT include fat, uneducated, ugly, poor men like Dean. If they begin to understand this that MGTOW is just men responding to natural disincentives of marriage, then maybe women who want to get married will get this for their own selfish interest?

    Unfortunately not. Any spokesman would be easily discredited, and certainly someone like Maher would simply be trashed without any further ado, based on other things he has said in the past.

    On this, I have to disagree for just one unassailable reason: we haven’t yet had a great looking, wealthy, intelligent, and well spoken Christian bachelor interviewed in the manner which Dean has. This hasn’t happened yet and until it has (until women actually hear from a guy they want to f-ck and marry, a guy who makes unassailable points about unilateral divorce law and everything he has to LOSE through no fault of his own and WHY he is MGHOW as a result) then ordinary women will never understand the narrative. Forget the feminists who are feminists BECAUSE they are ugly. They are hopeless. They know that they will never get married and so they (vengefully) want to ruin the married world for all the pretty girls too. We shouldn’t be trying to reach them. We have to reach the pretty single women who DO want to get married and COULD get married were it not for MGTOW. These are the women who have to “out-vote” the feminazis by telling them all to STFU.

    The reality is this. We are experiencing the death throes of a regime/society. The ancient Greeks wrote of the “cycle of regimes”, with the baseline takeaway that no regime lasts forever. There is a cycle that seems to start going downward with peak prosperity, although the speed of the decline varies greatly. However the variance of the speed, though, the end is not variable.

    What starts in Detroit and then Camden, Ferguson, and now Baltimore, this is the result of feminism and women with children and no husbands. Liberals are doing all that they possibly can to make sure the narrative that fatherlessness is NOT the reason for these riots, but the media is now losing. There is not a single person in my office that doesn’t know that woman that smacked that boy is a single welfare mom of six. They all know that even though no mainstream media outlet had the nerve to report it.

    The lower and lower that marriage rate drops, the more likely women will regard marriage as a special event ONLY for the most wealthy and most promising. We will get more and more Kate Bollick stories about women “missing windows” and asking what happened as they live a life of loneliness admiring their cats. We are NOT going to stop having police (as police are required for feminism to survive) and those police will NOT stop enforcing child support laws. More will die. Society will (eventually) go in one of two ways…. #1) feminism is destroyed and women concede that they f-cked everything all up for themselves or #2) Detroit and Ferguson will happen in Philly, St Louis, LA, Pittsburgh, Phoenix, Memphis, Tampa Bay, Houston, New Orleans, Albany, Rochester, Buffalo, Cleveland, Cincinnati, etc…

  124. greyghost says:

    No woman will ever concede that they fucked up with feminism. What will happen is the divorce rate will go down. As MGTOW grows. Keep and ye on women’s magazines when dating advice starts to be things that are to enhance a woman’s pleasantness rather than the usual sexual manipulation. Cooking (sandwiches) and acts of empathy and kindness as a way to trap a man.

  125. Opus says:

    Unusually negative today y’all.

    Montesquieu was writing before the revolution, and although he claimed to understand Persia we law students were taught that he had (by reason of the fog in the channel) entirely failed to grasp Britain and its constitution or the lack of it. We in Britain have been failing as a society, since 1997 or perhaps it was 1964 or was it 1649 or even 1066 or 409 or 41 or even earlier (but not 55B.C.). I think the death throws of America are being prematurely announced.

    Anyway, Feminism is a male plot to make women open their legs, spend their money (thus improving the economy) and eat lots of cream chocolate. Escoffier was a chef was he not?

  126. Phillyastro says:

    “Me no walkin’ blood clot despensir! Bop! Bop!”
    Pete Tosh

  127. Dale says:

    @novaseeker
    >In the cities of Greece, where they were not under the restraint of a religion … such was the virtue, simplicity, and chastity of women in those cities, that in this respect hardly any people were ever known to have had a better and wiser polity.

    I usually consider myself pretty intelligent, but verbal comprehension is not my strongest area… especially with old English. That last paragraph from Novaseeker at 4:26 seems to state that having cities without any restraint for women yields a group of women with high virtue. “such was the virtue, simplicity, and chastity of women in those cities, that in this respect hardly any people were ever known to have had a better and wiser polity (form of government)”. Or is this meant to be understood that the virtue of those uncontrolled women was so utterly bad, that, by comparison, the Greek polity was shown to be good? I see no hint in the quoted text that a negative assessment is being made, but that is the only way it fits with the remainder of the quoted text Novaseeker wrote.

    @Nova, greyghost, feeriker, IBB:

    Thanks for the input. Seeing only MGTOW as a possible solution is discouraging, but does not invalidate your points.

    Dave suggests correcting the church, and he is correct that the power of the Holy Spirit is the strongest asset by far in any spiritual battle. The one time I tried to speak to a pastor about a feminist point in his sermon that, unsurprisingly, was not actually supported by God’s word, he cut me off after about 8 seconds, and went on a 2 minute speech, completely unwilling to hear or consider. And that was in a church that is proud of their strong Scriptural basis for all sermons. (A claim which is frequently true, but one-minute divergences in the middle of an otherwise strongly-Scriptural sermon is still enough to poison the thoughts of the listeners.)
    The only times I can have Scriptural discussions on non-PC topics is in private with my friends or here. No church group does this, which is Dave’s point.

    Not sure where Dave gets his idea that that antichrist can be known to be a Muslim however… Dave?

    TFH:
    Yes, I did see your date, and I also understand your valid point that the information is not only available now, but is available abundantly. As others have pointed out however, a guy has to want to find it; he will not trip over a red-pill textbook on the sidewalk. He will see divorces in his group of older friends/relatives however. In a prior church, even a man working as a junior pastor had his wife divorce him and take up with another man; not sure if the last part was well known.
    Maybe the problem is that I myself am still idealistic. I seek to conform to God’s word, and be a fair and reasonable person with others; via projection I tend to assume others should be capable of the same. I still think there should be SOME way to solve this, if I am just wise enough.

    FINE. I will admit I have no counterpoint / argument with which to prove you clearly wrong. (in a whining voice:) but I really wish I could🙂 Not because I want to be “right”; who cares? But because I want to have hope. A man takes risks and succeeds; accepting the possibility that I CANNOT succeed really sucks. And I am still too stubborn to accept that position as yet…. I’ll admit to the possibility of immaturity so you do not have to point it out.
    Thanks for your input. The fact I do not like the message does not mean it is not valued or has no effect. Reminds me of a different (more reliable) truth, about which it is said:
    10 As the rain and the snow
    come down from heaven,
    and do not return to it
    without watering the earth
    and making it bud and flourish,
    so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
    11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
    It will not return to me empty,
    but will accomplish what I desire
    and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

  128. The Brass Cat says:

    Boxer says:

    If anything, a part of an authentic MGTOW life is the recognition that one’s brother’s way is not your own. Every man has his own way.

    Some men choose to marry. They know the risks. I’ll warn them, but will never stop them or presume to pass judgment. I’ll also be supportive, but not surprised, if/when some of them get taken to the cleaners.

    Novaseeker says:

    The option right now is *personal*, not *collective*. The collective goose is well and truly cooked.

    The option has always been personal, really. That’s the extent of our control.

    When I consider the array of decisions I have made in my life, there is a common theme: the son making right the failings and shortcomings of the father. I don’t mean that in a literal way. It’s like a subconscious reflexive action. For instance, my father’s marriage ended horribly and should have scared me away from marriage forever, but instead I’m determined to “get it right.” I can imagine this is the same complex the crown prince of a failed monarchy would develop. So I’m not sure just how much of “my way” is my own.

  129. Novaseeker says:

    Or is this meant to be understood that the virtue of those uncontrolled women was so utterly bad, that, by comparison, the Greek polity was shown to be good? I see no hint in the quoted text that a negative assessment is being made, but that is the only way it fits with the remainder of the quoted text Novaseeker wrote.

    What is meant is that the virtue expected was civic and not based on a religion, but was still strict when it came to women. His point is insisting on female virtue, whether it is based on religion or not.

  130. embracing reality says:

    Surely such a fancy lad cannot be vying for p*ssy points among the sisterhood, rather I expect he wants to join the sisterhood. Vagina envy.

  131. desiderian says:

    Cail,

    “Sure, the information is out there if you look for it, but how do you know to look?”

    The changes necessary are of the magnitude that requires new generations.

    How do they know? Blue balls, etc…

    My sense is that non-retarded men under 30 have a pretty good handle on the red-pill. Plus the bulk of under-30 women aren’t nearly as bad as women now post-40 were at that age.

  132. desiderian says:

    IBB,

    “We need a great looking guy (a guy who can get laid anytime he wants, anywhere) a guy who any woman in the world would love to marry, a wealthy guy who will fall on the sword and be crucified in a Christlike manner to save us all from damnation…. literally.

    Who is this guy if not Bill Maher?”

    Heh. Just when I think you can’t be any more clueless, you insist on outdoing yourself again. this, ladies and gentlemen, is our Grand Old Party in a nutshell.

    All that is required is decent looks, reasonable fashion sense (preferably timeless, a good fit being essential), a fit physique, lightning wit, a sparkle in the eye, and absolutely rock-sold frame control. That’s for the women.

    For the men – integrity, honesty, courage, and true love of God and country.

    Bill Maher? How can anyone possibly be that dense?

  133. Escoffier says:

    1) I met Bill Maher several times (strange story). He is an absolute asshole.

    2) How can it not be obvious to everyone–and have been so since at least 1997–that Maher is a prog-left liberal?

  134. Cane Caldo says:

    @Empath

    It requires adjusting the metaphor because The Lift, remember, comes from the moment when the panting girl you were squirming in the back seat with (I’m middle aged, back seats were big, I lived rural) decides to lift up so the pants can slide down. I can’t take credit for the term, only its broader application. The term was coined by Steve Dahl and Gary Meyer, contemporaries of Jonathon Brandmeier, all three were Titans of Chicago shock radio in the 80’s.

    What you describe here is parallel, but more along the lines of reaffirming the woman that she is safe with him. An example (if I understand correctly) would be: While mid-cop of a feel, she hesitates and the copping man say, “You know I love you”, and so she lifts.

    I’ve never heard of those men, or that explanation. My only instructor of it has been you. From you, I gathered that The Lift was more of about less-sanguine approval.

    @Opus

    Anyway, Feminism is a male plot to make women open their legs, spend their money (thus improving the economy) and eat lots of cream chocolate.

    This comment belongs here.

    @TFH/greyghost

    You are saying we should trade an injustice you do not prefer for an injustice that suits you, and to hell with whoever doesn’t get with the plan which you’ve concocted. That’s not a boon for others. It’s just another way to be a miser.

  135. Matatan says:

    A damaged kid paying the damage forward.

  136. Escoffier, Des, TFH, all you guys….,

    First Des,

    Heh. Just when I think you can’t be any more clueless, you insist on outdoing yourself again. this, ladies and gentlemen, is our Grand Old Party in a nutshell.

    All that is required is decent looks, reasonable fashion sense (preferably timeless, a good fit being essential), a fit physique, lightning wit, a sparkle in the eye, and absolutely rock-sold frame control. That’s for the women.

    For the men – integrity, honesty, courage, and true love of God and country.

    Bill Maher? How can anyone possibly be that dense?

    Do you understand women at all? Apparently not. Read and learn little boy.

    1) I met Bill Maher several times (strange story). He is an absolute asshole.

    2) How can it not be obvious to everyone–and have been so since at least 1997–that Maher is a prog-left liberal?

    Of course he is. AND he’s an atheist, about as far from Christian as you can get.

    But he is also the prototypical MGHOW. He is the epitome of MGTOW. That can not be disputed. Also he has money and is good looking and women will do anything (absolutely anything) to have him. In fact, sometimes playboy bunnies will just live with the guy in the hopes of getting palimony. This happened.

    http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/2005/05/04/Judge-tosses-Bill-Maher-palimony-suit/55141115225389/

    That wouldn’t happen to you Escoffier. I doubt that any man (single or married on this forum) has that level of “game.” But this is the kind of power Maher has as a bachelor (the kind of power Clooney used to have.)

    I said Bill Maher because I can’t think of any bachelor who is wealthy enough, good looking enough, with enough game, and intelligence, who would be able to successfully alter the feminist narrative about unilateral divorce law. If Maher went on the record (on his show) explaining WHY he remains a bachelor (because women just want his money and the laws of the state of California would empower a wife in robbing him) then a narrative might start to take place in the mainstream media. It could ONLY come from a man like Bill Maher. But please, if any of you guys can think of a Christian bachelor who is as wealthy, successful, intelligent, and as attractive as Bill Maher who could also give the MGTOW movement some real clout, I’m all ears guys. I can’t think of any. Instead, all we have are fat ugly uneducated men like that Dean character.

  137. Cane Caldo says:

    @TFH

    1) A committed mangina does not deserve to get caught in the same system he loves seeing inflicted on other men?

    I’m saying we, who were once participants in that system, cannot–at some arbitrary deadline–abandon them without bringing our guilt upon ourselves. Said another way: We can’t abandon our brothers for the same crimes we committed without dishonoring ourselves. It’s the deadline that’s the problem. Every man here crossed such a deadline in their own lives before they woke up. There was a moment when what you had been seeing and accepting for years suddenly did not make sense.

    You have a love of technology that makes you want to put it in terms of tools (Internet, Google, etc.); so that if you believe the proper tools exist, then you’re free to merely scoff at the fools who don’t use them and then abandon them. Even from a technologist perspective that is stupid because then the tools remain unused. Instead, you should direct that man to the tools. I’m speaking of something greater than a system of deserts; both for men and for technology.

    To my mind it is naive to believe that the tools will even be readily available. Does Google support our message? When they start shuffling results based on “truth” (as they have said they will do), it is a foregone conclusion that eventually Dalrock et al. will get shuffled to the back. I think this kind of thing is a major blindspot for you in particular. The idea that a preference for females (and female preferences) can’t survive the acceleration of automation/AI is, frankly, ludicrous. Artist and engineers have been slobbering for female automation since it’s imagining. Look at the human-like robots in Japan. Look at Real Dolls. The First Science Fiction film, Metropolis, is about a female robot. Look at the film Her. Look at Siri, and the voice Google uses.

    What I’m saying is that while you seem to believe that men pedestalize women because they are ignorant, the truth is much worse: They pedestalize because they like to do so. The nerds want to build females, and they won’t be satisfied an AI is female until it’s female enough to cause them problems; the same problems that you believe automation will solve. If AI is the future, then the future is betas being oppressed by female robots that they enable. We cannot set a deadline if we want to pull any future betas out of the machine.

    2) That there is no personal obligation, by men, to become knowledgeable about the factors governing an important area of their lives? What about knowledge of personal finances, personal hygene, and how to tie your shoelaces? Where do you draw the line?

    There is a personal obligation to know and do personal finances, hygiene, tie shoelaces, and interact with women. Absolutely. But there is also an obligation for those who know how, to teach the others. Why? Because they have a personal obligation to do so. Then they will have the obligation to teach others… You see how this continues; one brother after another each teaching the next. The way you propose, of leaving them in pain and ignorance, makes our side smaller and weaker.

  138. Opus says:

    One has to appeal to the interests of ones audience: the way to defeat Feminism is to persuade women that it is not in their best interests, and surely for most women Feminism has been a massive disaster; it is just that for a few women at the top they do even better under a Feminist regime. IBB is thus leaning in the right direction when he fancies someone like Maher as an Androsphere spokesman (good-looking, articulate, witty) but any man opposing Feminism with less clout than him is going to look angry and bitter.

    Even Sir Bob of Geldof, the man who single-handedly saved Africa (and the careers of a lot of has-been musicians) had little success when he began railing against the injustices of the laws of matrimony, and a former President of The Law Society (Mears) was largely driven from office and mocked in the press for his misogynous views – no Knighthood for him – to be replaced by good-looking smoothie Tony Girling (how appropriately named).

    MgTow, however, they cannot effectively legislate against.

  139. BradA says:

    MGTOWs are eating the seed corn of civilization. Their fun will be great while it lasts, but they are only thinking of themselves and really assume no judgment past the ones they face in this life.

    Though I would have more scorn for those who are hostile about those who disagree, just as I have scorn for militant atheist idiots.

    Where would be as a society if most potential entrepreneurs looked at the risks and just played it safe? Life would be much worth off. Yet many would say we should scorn those who try and fail. Kind of ironic like Apple getting attacked by the very SJWs they support. Or Occupy Wall Street people complaining about big business on their iPhones.

  140. greyghost says:

    ……….. the truth is much worse: They pedestalize because they like to do so. The nerds want to build females, and they won’t be satisfied an AI is female until it’s female enough to cause them problems; the same problems that you believe automation will solve. If AI is the future, then the future is betas being oppressed by female robots that they enable. We cannot set a deadline if we want to pull any future betas out of the machine.

    This is why I comment the way I do. Part of teaching other men is to let them know there actions are irresponsible. Pedestalizing women is normal failing of men that is what makes it so easy to dupe men into believing the lies from feminism. Even your own comment shows how uncomfortable you are with the conclusion of what the truth of the nature of women is. We’re talking about casting off men that still have faith in women and it bothers you. One more thing on this MGTOW is a war time way of life. MGTOW is to shift the culture not be a way of life. To be completely asshole about it the technology exist for men to reproduce with out women. Some chick scientist in Japan made an artificial womb and there was an article about a male skin cells can be made into an egg to be fertilized by sperm. That is possible due to males having both x and y chromosomes. This was always there from the first caveman or Adam which ever way you roll, but the point is God has at this time allowed it’s discovery. MGTOW as described here is as something bad and unsustainable is being nice to the ladies.
    MGTOW is going to happen anyway it can be red pill or blue pill but it will be the next phase like it or not. Red Pill MGTOW is fully sustainable and will allow technical and economic growth. Blue pill MGTOW looks like Detroit or as seen today Baltimore but rather than be an Island in the sea it is universal with no source for outside support.
    Red pill MGTOW looks like that guy Mark that post here. I can live with that and so can civilization.

  141. Minesweeper says:

    http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2015/05/03/dave-goldberg-cause-of-death-i-think-its-suicide/

    Poor sod if it came to that, you’d think with that amount of money at your disposal he could have lived like a king for the rest of his life. If this is what he has done I’ve seen this kind of thing before with wealthy well known celebs, she was gonna leave him as she discovered something shameful about his sex orientation or past or was going to leave anyway and he couldn’t take the trauma of her leaving or the shame of probably specifying why in the divorce.

    If she was going to leave you will never hear of it now as it will put the blame squarely on her.

    I would say that Sheryl must be worth a double fortune now but that would be in bad taste. Hopefully he knew his Lord (not Sheryl).

  142. Minesweeper says:

    I think Dalrock did a piece on the above blog before or it was in the comments, she sure is or was or can be nuts.

  143. Signor Farfalla says:

    Ha ha. When I first read it, I thought ‘Lift Chasing’ was a ski-slope metaphor. A guy keeps chasing the ski lift chair up the mountain even though it only gets higher and farther out of reach the further he chases it. All the while, he could have just let that ski lift chair go and easily catch the next one to come along. Almost works as well, doesn’t it?

    Hoellen2becq (or some such);

    “Marriage, morality, and civilization are too important to simply walk away from.

    Western men didn’t walk away from marriage, morality and civilization. Marriage, morality and civilization walked away from them.”

    Game, set, match right there.

  144. AmicusC says:

    @BRAD A

    “MGTOWs are eating the seed corn of civilization. Their fun will be great while it lasts, but they are only thinking of themselves and really assume no judgment past the ones they face in this life.

    Though I would have more scorn for those who are hostile about those who disagree, just as I have scorn for militant atheist idiots.

    Where would be as a society if most potential entrepreneurs looked at the risks and just played it safe? Life would be much worth off. Yet many would say we should scorn those who try and fail. Kind of ironic like Apple getting attacked by the very SJWs they support. Or Occupy Wall Street people complaining about big business on their iPhones.”

    the MGTOWs are a different way of effecting change. compound the problem take away the support structure and society/civilization must adapt or die. if it dies a new one will be created that will have the adaption built in.

    where we would be if most entrepreneurs said f this is the same place a society that needs to adapt or fail. I find your comment particularly interesting in light of why the US exists in the first place. the people said no England chose not to adapt and it led to revolution. it was british society british society failed to adapt and it died and was replaced with a better model. unfortunately that model was allowed to rot from within. now it too must adapt of be replaced.

  145. Escoffier says:

    The Persian Letters is an esoteric satire on France. It’s not really about Persia at all. It does have many useful things to teach about women, however.

  146. hoellenhund2 says:

    And then I’ll go to a family get-together or something, and it’s like stepping back through time. There will be people talking Democrat-Republican politics like it’s 1980, or complaining that the public schools don’t say the Pledge anymore (but they also need more funding), or talking about how men are always leaving their wives and something should be done about it. Suddenly I realize that maybe the truth isn’t getting out there very fast at all, and it only seems that way inside my bubble.

    Hah! It reminds me of this article by. P. J. O’Rourke:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/13/up-to-a-point-they-made-me-write-about-lena-dunham.html

    The sheer extent of his shock is almost comical, especially if you consider that his daughters probably aren’t that different from Lena Dunham after all. Generally speaking, the current social milieu is understrandably alien to old and middle-aged people. They don’t want to adapt, and they don’t have to either. They’re old, after all.

  147. hoellenhund2 says:

    He was arrested for arson, so apparently burning down your own house is not legal.

    Bulldozing your own house isn’t a threat to public safety, unless you’re so inept that you accidentally run some pedestrian over in the process. Fires, on the other hand, have a tendency to spread, so arson is a legitimate threat to the entire neighbourhood.

  148. hoellenhund2 says:

    this man has to destroy his own life and obliterate any possible future at a happily married Christian life

    This guy needs to state exactly why he’ll never marry (because of unilateral divorce law)

    I’m pretty sure you got yourself into a contradiction there.

    ….all ordinary blue pill people see when they see a red pill MRA man like Dean (no matter how well spoken Dean is) is that he is an ugly, poor, uneducated, disgustingly fat man, who can’t get laid and probably hates all women because they will never f-ck him/marry him, so to hell with him

    Except that Dean Esmay is presumably addressing average men like himself, not pretty single women.

    Anyhow, the way to get to pretty single women is for other women to teach them by example. If a pretty single woman gets the impression that other pretty single women are rejecting feminism and are thus better off than those who don’t, she’ll probably reject it as well. Trying to argue with her is pointless.

  149. hoellenhund2 says:

    1) I met Bill Maher several times (strange story). He is an absolute asshole.

    2) How can it not be obvious to everyone–and have been so since at least 1997–that Maher is a prog-left liberal?

    Not to mention that he’s childless, an atheist and probably bisexual. It’s not like he has to put up with women in general or is terribly invested in the future of this society, so there’s practically zero chance of him throwing himself on swords for any cause, other than maybe Zionism. Anyway, he has already spoken out against feminism many times. That takes courage in itself.

  150. Instead, all we have are fat ugly uneducated men like that Dean character.

    Brad seems to think this fucked up piece of shit world is worth saving, so do you. It’s not. I will fucking dance the biggest dance I’ve ever had the privilege of dancing when this world burns. Hail Mary! It deserves to be destroyed, it’s wicked and corrupt.

    There is no point to saving this society, or the world. The sooner you get that, the better!

  151. Where would be as a society if most potential entrepreneurs looked at the risks and just played it safe? Life would be much worth off. Yet many would say we should scorn those who try and fail. Kind of ironic like Apple getting attacked by the very SJWs they support. Or Occupy Wall Street people complaining about big business on their iPhones.

    And yet, even entrepreneurs will decline any project with a failure rate of 50%, heck most of them would decline a project with a 5% failure rate if the consequence of failure was absolute destruction, including prison time.

    Going further, people don’t do well when they live under a tyranny, whether they’re entrepreneurial or not. Most inventions either come when society is somewhat free and allows people to live and fund their own lifestyles or when the mother of all necessity comes knocking, i.e. war, famine, natural disasters and such. MGTOW has the ability to bring society to the absolute abyss, which might bring about that ‘necessity’ problem and create another couple generations of technological improvement.

    MGTOW is completely Biblical. Stop arguing against it.

  152. Agent P says:

    The only reason a young man should be carrying around any girl gear.

  153. BradA says:

    MGTOW is not Biblical in the slightest. MGTLW (Men going the Lord’s Way) is very biblical.

    How many MGTOWs seek to serve God with their singleness? I don’t recall hearing a single one post on that here. I am all for that and see no problem with that at all. Focusing on doing the work of the Lord (in the specific, not the generic off focus) is a valid and just call. Though it is just that, a call, per the Apostle Paul.

    I would note that I want to save anyone who can be saved. I don’t see much hope for this culture, but that is not my point to determine. It is up to God what to do, I am only supposed to occupy until He comes. Individuals can be saved however, because that is based on God’s power, not that of society.

    I would second Dalrock’s reply above that we should support those who seek to build civilization. Cutting them down may seem like fun and good sport, but it is not productive. I reserve scorn for those actively tearing things down. That can hit some MGTOWs as well as those shoving the FI and other errant causes down everyone else’s throat.

    Things will not be nearly as pretty as many who support overthrowing our society indicate. I would not want to live in the year 1100 however much better it might have been in this area, for example.

    Life is a matter of figuring out how to survive, not quitting.

    I also know all humanity has a higher goal to follow God’s will and ways in this life. Difficulty is irrelevant. Even belief in His Lordship is irrelevant. Those will determine who ends up following it, but nothing changes the core requirements.

    ====

    Boxer, I even thought of you when I was writing about eating our seed corn. I completely understand your approach and would likely take it myself if I was suddenly single again, but I still feel the principle applies.

    I do see a difference between those who are MGTOW on their own and those who scorn others who don’t follow their way. This is just standard human intolerance for those who are different, so it is not surprising. “You must believe my way or I will shame you.”

  154. Brad, I don’t like you much. You seem terribly blue pill to me. You don’t like MGTOW because it is the only effective way at bringing down feminism. Men just doing their own shit, not caring about ‘seed corn’ or women or anything but themselves will bring about change like no other.

    Before one can rebuild, you must first destroy.

  155. It’s easy, cheap, and (in my opinion) cowardly to refuse to support these men who know all the risks and stand up anyway. The least that the rest of us can do is not insult them, as they try to keep a viable culture alive.

    That’s just it. It’s not a viable culture anymore..

    Supporting marriage means supporting feminism. It means supporting the current system. There is no Biblical marriage anymore, only marriage 2.0. Brad and others keep trying to say that stating this is shaming them but if their wife goes bonkers, well, how does supporting marriage 1.0 help them now? It doesn’t, that’s because it’s dead!

    The reality on the ground is that marriage is a sham for men, you can argue till you’re blue in the face, it matters not, and the only viable alternative for men is to go their own way instead.

  156. slack says:

    Another reason for paternity tests….just to prove he ‘s not yours.
    Christ kid, get some self respect!!!!

  157. DrTorch says:

    Western men didn’t walk away from marriage, morality and civilization. Marriage, morality and civilization walked away from them.

    Au contraire. These challenges aren’t new. They were evident in the 1920s, w/ both the polar extremes of the flappers and prohibition. They were evident in the 1950s with the literature, both fiction and non-fiction, being produced at the state universities and in the NYC literary magazines, and in the LA movie set crowd’s sensationalized philandering and divorcing. They were evident in the 1960s counterculture. They were evident in the 1970s self-actualization movement. They were evident in the 1980s when Prof. Bilezikian was promoting his feminist theology in IL. They were evident in the 1990s when FLT, FotF, Janet Parshall et al were big on the radio. They were evident in the 2000s with the content on Crosswalk.com.

    Yet Christian men just walked away from these problems. Early on b/c they were fatigued from world wars. Later b/c they were confused by mixed messages, and they did not imitate the Bereans and examine the scriptures, instead they pursued the things of this world assuming that W. Civ would take care of itself. Nevertheless, Western men walked away, some even ran. They went with what was easy.

  158. Regular Guy says:

    @ Cane

    “The nerds want to build females, and they won’t be satisfied an AI is female until it’s female enough to cause them problems; the same problems that you believe automation will solve. If AI is the future, then the future is betas being oppressed by female robots that they enable.”

    Troof! Hilarious and sad at the same time.

  159. Regular Guy says:

    Dave Goldberg, Sheryl Sandberg’s husband, died of trauma to the head while exercising in the gym.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/technology/dave-goldberg-cause-of-death.html?smid=tw-share

  160. PuffyJacket says:

    If AI is the future, then the future is betas being oppressed by female robots that they enable. We cannot set a deadline if we want to pull any future betas out of the machine

    “Oppressed” definitely isn’t the right word. Those “female” robots will have a very particular use, if you get my drift.

  161. greyghost says:

    Yet Christian men just walked away from these problems. Early on b/c they were fatigued from world wars. Later b/c they were confused by mixed messages, and they did not imitate the Bereans and examine the scriptures, instead they pursued the things of this world assuming that W. Civ would take care of itself. Nevertheless, Western men walked away, some even ran. They went with what was easy.

    If this was true the manosphere would not be here. Men did and still marry and families are destroyed at gun point by the state for her happiness. You need to take a look at how things are done and not how you want them to be.
    MGTOW is to make that change in society. My role as one man is to do everything possible to make sure the men doing MGTOW are red pill. Japan has grass eaters and their MGTOW seems blue pill defeated in nature and the country is dying a slow death. (I read once they sold more adult diapers than baby diapers)
    Christian men that fear MGTOW need to keep there faith intact because they are going to show where the lost need to go. Great source for a Christian man to show the hoards of men not competing for a bunch of worthless sluts for marriage. “Look at those bad men over there. After we marry I’ll fuck you and tell you how wonderful you are” One day the NFL will stop wearing pink and some marriage and relationship laws will change and all credit will be your faith and you can enjoy that family until death and go to heaven and the savages that lived unbiblically will all go to torment in hell.
    If that means my 9 year old son can love his wife and provide for his family without the sword of Damocles over his head to hell with that asshole greyghost. (not going to happen I know not for him maybe was never that way for any man)

  162. PuffyJacket says:

    As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. The Manosphere is first and foremost a “self-help” sphere. Always has been, always will be. Our responsibility to those unfortunate enough to be caught in the system is to inform as much as we can. No other institution does this as well as the Manosphere. If one chooses the blue-pill path despite this, remember that we’ve already done our job and whatever follows is his own fault, not ours.

  163. Regular Guy says:

    @ Brad A

    “MGTOWs are eating the seed corn of civilization.”

    Who cares? A civilization made up of the bastards of feral sluts isn’t a civilization, it’s a ghetto that isn’t worth saving. Besides, MGTOW are mostly athiests so it’s really of no consequence to the Kingdom.

    As we have been commanded by God, deny sluts any children, give children to Godly women and he will take care of the rest.

  164. PuffyJacket says:

    MGTOWs are eating the seed corn of civilization

    Let’s be clear about this. Women are eating the “seed” corn of civilization. MGTOWs are refusing to provide the seed. Just as you wouldn’t harass a banker for failing to provide loans to those unwilling to pay back the principal, it makes ZERO sense to harass MGTOW for choosing not to “sow” in an environment where they are heavily penalized for doing so. Anyone who sees it any other way has ZERO grasp of how the civilization works, and should be chastised regularly for their idiocy.

  165. JDG says:

    THF are you saying that by the end of the year all or most men will have been exposed to “red pill” thinking (having been led to water so to speak)? I’m just trying to clarify as it seems that so many of us talk past each other at times.

  166. Cane Caldo says:

    @TFH

    But your sentence still amounts to leading a worse to water, not making him drink. I am all for leading horses to water, but mangina who overtly go in opposite direction even after being exposed to the information many times, no, they deserve to get the worst of the system.

    Good, because it sure looks like you’re either being deceptive, or you were not clear enough. You said:

    Remember that the general deadline is 12/31/2015, set years ago. After this point, any man who is still exhibiting mangina behavior is not worthy of any sympathy, and fully deserves what he gets.

    Which means that you have set a deadline of leading horses to water until 12/31/2015, but that after that point, you will consider all leading-to-water days over; that any horse who is not drinking by that point deserves to die because the leading you did until 12/30/2015 was sufficient for all men, everywhere, and for all time.

    There are still many, many, many horses who have not been lead to water. There will continue to be horses looking for water that do not know where to look. There will continue to be horses that don’t know that rivers of water exist and that they do not need to drink out of the mud-hole in which they also piss.

    I have never had a problem with MGTOW…provided that’s Men Go Their Own Way and not Minter Goes To Other’s Wife; provided they don’t become embittered, and provided that they don’t commit abominations. Homosexuals, for example, are a kind of hardcore and hardened MGTOW.

    By your own standard of ‘saving men’, you are the perfect person to engage in the lengthy undertaking of persistently and doggedly converting David Futrelle to at least some portions of the truth (purple pill).

    You’re going to have to agree and amplify better than that.

    @TFH & Puffy

    Let’s be clear about this. Women are eating the “seed” corn of civilization.

    This is true. The Bible says that in evil times the women eat their children’s food, and even that they eat their children.

  167. Beeker says:

    “You don’t like MGTOW because it is the only effective way at bringing down feminism.”

    It’s not just feminism and the marriage laws. Female nature won’t change. Women still cannot view men holistically as human beings. If the marriage and divorce laws were changed, and feminism wiped off from the face of the Earth, I still wouldn’t get married. How do you change millions of years of genetic hard wiring in womens’ brains?

  168. greyghost says:

    How do you change millions of years of genetic hard wiring in womens’ brains?

    You don’t change it. Just understand it and not deny it and set up civilization with that truth as part of it’s foundation. Following what God has already said on the subject is a good start.

  169. The Tingler says:

    Don’t know what all you jerk-offs are going on about, but I carry several pads and tampons in my pockets, some for heavy flow and some for light, and let me tell you they’re a fantastic pick-up line at parties. I can’t tell you how many grateful women have rewarded me with sex for helping them out at their most womanly time of the month.

  170. Scott says:

    So this thread sort of came back to life after BradA’s comments, and I think for good reason.

    I have been identified by several commenters, over several threads as one of the “civilizationists” that BradA is defending. None of the MGTOW ever insult me personally, so I take it that means most of them at least have some level of respect for my position.

    That position is, I have sons and daughters and I do not wish to see the society crumble to the ground. At least I don’t think I do.

    I agree that when BradA equivocates it can be frustrating. I have not figured him out yet. He is either a brilliant erudite academic making sophisticated arguments I just don’t understand, or he is arguing like a woman, who is trying to sound like a man. (I accept there may be another option–just being facetious.)

    I am highly educated, but I have never claimed to be a particularly deep thinker or communicator. I leave that to Dalrock, Cane Caldo, Empath, and many others. But I am a pretty clear thinker and I have made some inroads with personal acquaintances that I am proud of. So I like to do thought experiments to help me think.

    Now, it seems to me the MGTOW argument is that they must manifest their disdain in this way in order to hasten the demise of an inevitable fall which in turn will provide an opportunity to rebuild with something based on the realities of men and womens nature. There is a further split that I guess must be made between “Christian” MGTOW and a secular variety, but for our purposes let us not separate those two.

    The though experiment is this: If tomorrow, a great event that none of us could predict happens, and the entire “cathedral” is stripped of its façade–all of it–the FI, misandry, fiat currency, education, etc. What would happen?

    If I am understanding this correctly, a bunch of MGTOW would be standing amidst the rubble waving their fingers with a “we told you so!!”

    This is NOT facetious–I would be in agreement with them.

    However, if the end goal is to rebuild a sane society based on tried and true ancient values, then what will happen to all the women left in the dust?

    My point is, even in preparation for such a collapse, there needs to be a female counterpart to MGTOW, which is what Mychael and I (and the Elspeths, Seriously Servings, SSMs, of the world are doing). If one of those MGTOW came to my home, and was a good, Christian man ready to court my daughter, won’t you be glad someone was raising her?

    So it doesn’t matter to me what happens–collapse today or 20 years from now. Does this conundrum make sense to anyone?

  171. Tom C says:

    I picture this kid wearing a spandex outfit and cape with a big “Tampon Boy!” on the chest. Maybe he could strap on a tampon-dispensing machine that takes quarters. He could be chivalrous and entrepreneurial at the same time.

    “Oh, bless you Tampon Boy!”

    Tampon Boy gazes into the distance, fists on his hips, cape wafting in the breeze . “No need to thank me, citizen, it’s all in a day’s work.”

  172. Cane Caldo says:

    @TFH

    You once again did the bait and switch of combining manginas with the young men who are not committed to either ‘color of pill’, and don’t even know that they have to make that choice.

    What you call Blue Pill men are, by definition, exhibiting some mangina behavior. Manginas are Blue Pill. Again, you said:

    Remember that the general deadline is 12/31/2015, set years ago. After this point, any man who is still exhibiting mangina behavior is not worthy of any sympathy, and fully deserves what he gets.

    I’m not bait-n-switching. You need to tighten up your communication. I suspect that the issue is that this is difficult for you because, like a jaded cop, you relish the idea of perps getting whipped more than you approve of them being reformed. I been there, but you such an attitude will get you and us nowhere.

  173. Signor Farfalla says:

    It seems to me that at the very, very end of the day;

    –not approaching the end of the day

    –not next to it

    –not what you think is the end of the day

    But at the very, very, very end of the day, the message is still often a more articulate version of ‘Man Up.’ Now it is decorated a bit with cool concepts like ‘calculated risk’ some talk of ‘seeds’ etc. But it’s really just ‘Man Up.’ Everyone in the world can make their plays, adapt and adjust, evolve, make their decisions for their own best interests, but for the white male, it always comes down to ‘Man Up.’ The problem is that once you’re RP-aware then you can’t go that way. It’s just over. If a guy never became RP aware then maybe he could go off dutifully and marry to ‘preserve civilization.’ He’ll be grumbling but he’ll still do it because that’s what white boys do—the right thing for the collective (because who the hell else is?) But now we’re aware of the situation–‘duty’ ‘responsibility’ ‘integrity’ etc are just words. Once you realize that progs are altering your whole existence and rendering you into their slave with just a few words. JUST A FEW WORDS thrown at you like peanuts. That’s all it takes for them to walk right across your back to a higher and much more comfortable spot on the human food chain. The mistake they made is that they started more or less laughing at us while they did it.

  174. Oscar says:

    Scott says:
    May 4, 2015 at 8:39 pm

    “So it doesn’t matter to me what happens–collapse today or 20 years from now. Does this conundrum make sense to anyone?”

    It makes perfect sense to those of us who are raising children.

    Jeremiah 29:4 This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says to all those I carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon: 5 “Build houses and settle down; plant gardens and eat what they produce. 6 Marry and have sons and daughters; find wives for your sons and give your daughters in marriage, so that they too may have sons and daughters. Increase in number there; do not decrease. 7 Also, seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile. Pray to the Lord for it, because if it prospers, you too will prosper.”

  175. Boxer says:

    for the white male, it always comes down to ‘Man Up.’

    Uh, there are Black and Asian dudes here, too. You realize this, yes?

    This is why MGTOW is destined to always be a fringe movement. The veiled racism, the anger in the subtext, the overt whining, and the willingness to sneer at anyone who doesn’t follow the “One True Way” of MGTOW (fuck’n lol) suggests that it will always be a laughingstock, populated largely by grouchy Aspergers nerds and social retards. (Calling Rob Fedders!)

    Once you realize that progs are altering your whole existence and rendering you into their slave with just a few words. JUST A FEW WORDS thrown at you like peanuts. That’s all it takes for them to walk right across your back to a higher and much more comfortable spot on the human food chain. The mistake they made is that they started more or less laughing at us while they did it.

    The people who read this site and are choosing to marry anyway aren’t becoming “a slave”. They know the risks, and they’re following their own way. Grow up and respect this.

    Regards,

    Boxer

  176. Boxer says:

    A mangina, by contrast, is making a committed effort to be a ‘male feminist’. These are the worst of the worst, and they deserve to receive the worst of the system they contribute to.

    One thing that gives me hope is the proximity effect. Like the idealistic fool who chooses to keep company with Grizzly Bears in the Alaska wilderness…

    …the male feminists of the world often become prey to the people they spend all their time “allying” with.

    Hugo Schwyzer got what he deserved. May his experience become universal.

  177. Oscar says:

    Boxer says:
    May 4, 2015 at 10:30 pm

    “Uh, there are Black and Asian dudes here, too. You realize this, yes?”

    There are even a few of us Central American immigrants. Eek!

  178. Boxer says:

    Dear Brad A:

    Boxer, I even thought of you when I was writing about eating our seed corn. I completely understand your approach and would likely take it myself if I was suddenly single again, but I still feel the principle applies.

    I don’t have a problem being called out.

    In a calculated cost/benefit analysis, I’m a bad prospect for the vocation of husband, and I’m also less of a burden on society as a single dude, than as a producer of divorce orphans.

    Best,

    Boxer

  179. Wastelander says:

    Guys like Brad A really take the cake. According to him, not only should young men throw themselves headlong into the burning ruins of post-marriage domesticity; they should do so for HIS benefit, for his broken family, and, of course– ever-present in the angsty, panicked subtext– for his comfortable dotage in a perilously fractured, disintegrating society.

    Pathetic.

    Whatever happened to leadership? To taking care of your men?

    It seems the institutions have abdicated this role. What remains does not serve young men; it cannibalizes them. Brazenly.

    Same with the elders. Most grasp and plunder; their legacy is discord, chaos and rank immorality.

    How is perpetuating this state of affairs not evil? What is a righteous man to do besides going his own way? Choosing to continue in the farce is a man’s prerogative. What it emphatically does not do is give him a moral advantage. The hectoring and moaning about MGTOW is just… womanly.

    Thanks for the great blog, Dalrock. I look forward to your next round of number-crunching.

  180. greyghost says:

    I don’t think Signor Farfalla was being racist at all. If he thinks white heterosexual males are hated he’s right. His point of view is from a white male view if he is and he is speaking from his experiences, he’s ok.
    Oscar you are a family man I don’t think you fall under the MGTOW . (I don’t either other than my support of it)

  181. Pingback: But what is our duty to our brother? | Dark Brightness

  182. Signor Farfalla says:

    Boxer,

    Thanks for the ‘man up’ sermon. Patronizing, arrogant, insulting. Thanks for that. You made my argument for me..exactly..point by point. Shaming, if you don’t fall into line it’s ‘overt whining, grouchy Asperger’s’ etc. In other words “MAN UP.” Big surprise! You even told me to ‘grow up’ Wow. A lot of insults aimed at a guy who is second guessing the tax/alimony mule lifestyle.

    Also, your attempt to squeeze some racial indignation out of what I said was flat pathetic and I bet you know that. White males are being duped by the collective animus and having their lives compromised. No one else is. Ever other demographic benefits. That’s what I was addressing. Attempting to read it to fuel your indignation tingles was pitiful.

  183. Scott says:

    White males are being duped by the collective animus and having their lives compromised. No one else is.

    I more or less agree with you there. The evil villain in the current American narrative is the white, heterosexual Christian male. And the most egregious sin he ever commits is asking questions about it. See my attempt to do so here…

    http://westernphilosophyeasternfaith.blogspot.com/2015/04/a-dialogue-about-race.html

  184. Signor Farfalla says:

    Scott,

    Wow. Good job on keeping your cool but with people like that it’s pointless anyway. You can see this incredible, growing divide between thinkers and emoters so clearly there on your link. Just two different animals. You kept your frame quite well. The way those libs cancelled themselves out so brilliantly is always fun to watch but ultimately sad because they still vote.

  185. http://elitedaily.com/women/sorry-sorry-20-things-women-shouldnt-apologize/

    Enjoy! Got that off a woman’s facebook page that used to go to a Christian school here in South Africa. Dealing with my own problems is enough, I don’t need more burden placed on me from a twat like that. No thanks.

  186. Dave says:

    White males are being duped by the collective animus and having their lives compromised. No one else is.

    Sorry to have to explain it this way: the white males may not have caused this, but by their acquiescence, they allowed it to continue. People will treat you exactly as you allow them to. When white males allow their women to treat them like crap, of course they will be treated like crap. When white males allow themselves to be blamed for all the evils of society, of course they will be blamed for them.
    I don’t know how to say this, but from my observation, white males are generally too “nice”. They bend over backwards to please others, and that is not how to survive and even thrive in today’s world. For the most part in America today, white males seem to have lost their mojo, maybe except for some folks in Texas who still demonstrate true, unapologetic masculinity. They do whatever they want to do without losing sleep over what anyone thinks about it. To be respected, white males need to be more assertive and less supplicating. Maybe they need to watch some of those old cowboys movies to remind them a bit of their roots. After all, white males founded this great nation. They should not give it up without a hard, protracted fight.

  187. desiderian says:

    Dave,

    “When white males allow themselves to be blamed for all the evils of society, of course they will be blamed for them.”

    The thing is, individual white males don’t allow themselves to be blamed, they’re always blaming some other white male who’s not enlightened like the white male doing the blaming or agreeing with someone else’s blaming. The enlightened white male hopes thereby to gain a leg up on other white males, but it seldom in fact works out that way, especially if the blame is a bum rap, as it often is.

    We need to hang together or we’ll continue to hang separately.

  188. Boxer says:

    Dear Grey Ghost:

    If he thinks white heterosexual males are hated he’s right. His point of view is from a white male view if he is and he is speaking from his experiences, he’s ok.

    Well, here’s what he said:

    for the white male, it always comes down to ‘Man Up.’

    If you think Whites are the only ones who get the “man up” speech, you’re deluded. This took me about one second to find.

    Minister Farrakhan wants you to man up and marry a banged out ho’. That precious black woman needs to stay home with the children, and you just need to “bring in what it takes” to make that happen (about 3:30). LOL! Good luck with that.

    The entire video is a classic case of conservative thinking, quite well done, with lots of innuendo to appeal to the manly nature, but it never addresses the root of the problem: divorce courts and child support. Those things can not be criticised.

    Regards,

    Boxer

  189. Boxer says:

    Dear “Signor Farfalla”:

    (histrionic bullshit snipped, to get to the one relevant snippet in the wordsalad)

    White males are being duped by the collective animus and having their lives compromised. No one else is.

    Well, I know that’s not true, and so does anyone else who has ever gone down to the divorce courts, and sat through an hour of the farce that goes on there. Black dudes, Asian dudes, Christian dudes, Muslim dudes, Jewish dudes, and Wiccan dudes all get treated exactly the same down there. What I mean to say is that they all get fucked hard in the ass for their trouble.

    If there is a racial preference that I’ve seen, it’s for Native American dudes, who have special laws that kick their kids into tribal courts. I saw that once. Some skank ho came in and the proceedings were halted, the minute the opposing counsel told judge that said baby was of such and such tribe. Of course, I’ve never been to the Native American tribal divorce courts, but if I were to guess, I’d assume that the asskicking may have been delayed until a the Native American lesbian feminist judge sat down on the reservation.

    I encourage you, Scott and others not to believe me. Go on down to the family courts in your area and see this monstrosity for yourselves. There is no privilege like female privilege, and it’s on display down there for anyone to see.

    Regards,

    Boxer

  190. DrTorch says:

    the white males may not have caused this, but by their acquiescence, they allowed it to continue. People will treat you exactly as you allow them to.

    Exactly. But it’s males of all races who are a part of W. Civ who have acquiesced. Time to recognize that and repent.

    That’s my interpretation of the manosphere.

  191. feeriker says:

    feministhater says:
    May 5, 2015 at 6:55 am

    Don’t you just love it when narcissistic sluts boldly and grandly predisqualify themselves as marriage material (actually, as any kind of relationship material) in front of the entire world?

  192. Anonymous Reader says:

    TFH
    Manginas doubling down….. something I predicted at the start of 2010 (as Zed can vouch, if we have the honor of seeing him here again)….

    I’m not Zed and could never play him on TV, but I recall that prediction. FWIW.

  193. Scott says:

    I encourage you, Scott and others not to believe me. Go on down to the family courts in your area and see this monstrosity for yourselves. There is no privilege like female privilege, and it’s on display down there for anyone to see.

    I think this is an important point, and is really what the Dalrock blog is about. It is a blog about the total destruction of marriage, without regard to race (for the most part). He is doing some very heavy lifting.

    In fact, TJ Sotomayor spends almost all of his You Tube time discussing the courts/DV/custody BS from the black perspective.

    However, I do not think it presents itself as evidence that a great and deep anti-white male sentiment permeates the populat culture and political powers that be. There is an unnoficial decision matrix that is used to determine who is at the bottom of the pile, and that bottom is decidely white/male/Christian/heterosexual/”conservative.”

    The two things are really seperate issues, but they have a lot of overlap in terms of effect.

  194. John Nesteutes says:

    @Dale:

    John N claims plain Anabaptists have 0.3% divorce, but without living on a commune, separate from the world, I do not see how this would continue. And to be blunt, I have no desire to be a farmer. I work with my mind, as many of us “geeks” do, and I would find that work boring and unchallenging.

    We are in the world, but not of the world. We do not live in communes. (Hutterites do that.)

    I work for a tech startup sort of company, although most of my fellow churchgoers don’t. A number of Mennonite strongholds are either near a major city or are near an incubator for tech. Examples: Waterloo, Ontario (basically the start-up hub of Canada); State College, PA; New York City, both Bronx and Brooklyn; Tampa/Sarasota, Florida area; South Bend, Indiana area (Michiana / Chicagoland area); and on and on.

    There isn’t really anyone left in our church who is a full time farmer. A lot of people do it as a hobby or to have extra food because they like eating food and meat they raised themselves. The most common profession is a self employed tradesman.

    Most people at church live in the suburban neighbourhoods, centered around the church. Some people have a good chunk of land and still live on an old family farm. A few people live in apartments or rent a room from another church family. A few guys live together in a house they share.

    If we live in the city, how would I insulate her from her immoral neighbours? Foreign women were not raised in this toxic environment, although some warn that she may acclimatize to her “rights” here, so this is seen as a delaying action, rather than a preventative action.

    Importing foreign women is foolish for the exact reasons you mentioned, although moving to a foreign culture and marrying a woman who stays in her home culture seems to work out OK.

    The general rule with plain Anabaptist living is that you live in a plain Anabaptist community, unless you have a really good reason not to. Good reasons are usually for mission purposes (and even that happens in a strong community context)a.

    Dale, if you want more information, I’d be glad to talk to you offline – you can reach me at john_nesteutes@yahoo.com. There’s a limit to how much personal information is wise to share in the manosphere.

  195. mikediver5 says:

    I am a father with six grown children. I was as blue a blue pill advocate as it was possible to be. I was an altar boy, and my mother pushed me (unsuccessfully) towards the priesthood. I volunteered during Vietnam to serve my country. I married a feminist b*tch to start a family. It did not turn out well.

    The question of what is a Christian male to do in the current situation. I have become red pill aware. Actually, the divorce courts forced red pill awareness on me as a suppository. Brad A wants people like me to push our sons (and daughters I assume) into the abattoir, for the good of the civilization and culture. I can’t support this any longer. My advice to my sons is to get out of this culture and find one that is going to survive. The culture in the west is terminally ill and does not want to be saved. It will punish severely anyone that tries to save it. What I see is an entire culture that is hell bent on committing suicide. If you are against MGTOW, you are for young men joining in the suicide pact.

    If we need to support our positions with scripture, then the best parallel case I can think of is Lot fleeing Sodom. God did not tell Lot to stay and try to save Sodom. Instead he was ordered to leave and not look back in peril of his soul. I feel that this culture has reached that point. You see the signs in the sky and say it will rain, and you are right, yet you fail to see the signs of the times. How is that you can’t see what has become of our culture. It can’t be saved and your choice is to flee or go down with it. I choose to flee and never look back. I am trying to convince my sons to do the same.

  196. Scott says:

    mikediver5-

    Not to be combative, but seriously–where?

    I have considered moving my family to Serbia, where the population is 80%+ practicing Serbian Orthodox. They do not tolerate Muslims. Since the breakup of the former Yugoslavia, they are very nicely functioning republic. They are a culturally homogenous society. I have a Serb name, and I am learning the language.

    but…

    They are in negotiations for entry in the EU!!!!!

    So no place is perfect. I am just wondering where you had in mind?

  197. @Boxer

    Your commentary and analysis here is greatly appreciated.

    There’s really nothing more demonised in America than the black father (nor lionised than the black single mother). In the off chance the black father doesn’t have his kids ripped away from him by false domestic violence allegations, divorce, or child support orders that are impossible to pay, he’ll end up being excoriated for being “too harsh” when disciplining his kids.

    Black fathers can literally do no right in America.

    Any neoreactionary white person who claims they don’t see this is being wilfully blind. Stirring up racial tension is just a cheap and easy way to distract us from the real forces at play, namely, the utter destruction of the family and fatherhood.

  198. @mikediver5

    Fleeing sounds appealing, and in some cases, is the right thing to do. “When they persecute you in one city, flee to the next.”

    But there really won’t be anywhere left to go soon. India has been thoroughly blue-pilled. Lots of eager NGOs are busy trying to blue-pill the entire African continent.

    Non-Arab Muslim society has become a hostile place for men. The family law in Iran is unbelievably anti-male, much worse than in West. There are many people busy trying to spread feminism to Arab Islam as well.

    We are called as Christians to be in the world but not of the world, and to come out from amongst them and be ye separate. We can do this anywhere. Sometimes, we can’t live in a particular neighbourhood or a particular city, but we can live on the outskirts of the city, or we can move neighbourhoods.

    We should seek to ally ourselves with other Christians doing the same. Of course, we need to know who are true allies are. Anyone who supports the current system of divorce and child-support based family support is not an ally of mine, but is an enemy of both myself and God.

    God will prevail.

  199. mikediver5 says:

    I am married to a Filipina and I intend to flee to the Philippines; I can get a green card up to 6 months before I leave the US. So far, it is the only country in the world that does not have divorce. This makes all the difference. They take marriage as a lifetime commitment very seriously and the believe marriage is a religious issue, between the married people and the church, and not a legal one where the state is a party. They are also the type of Catholics which I was raised to be, but which pretty much no longer exists in the west; too much liberation theology in the 60s and 70s, as typified by our current pope.

  200. John Nesteutes says:

    @mikediver5

    Setting up a life in the Philippines is a sensible thing for a traditional Catholic to do.

  201. Oscar says:

    I agree with the group that the Left reserves most of its antipathy for white, heterosexual, Christian males, but two points need to be made.

    1. The people the Left hates most are those that the Lefts sees as belonging to them and refuse to. Note, for example, how the Left treats blacks who refuse to go along with the narrative. We Hispanics receive similar treatment, but with lesser ferocity. It seems as though the Left sees blacks as non-humans who lack individuality and agency. Hispanics are a little closer to human, and so on.

    2. Though the child support model of the family hurts everyone, it’s obviously hurt blacks the most. Arguably, it’s black men, not white men, whose lives have been most compromised by the current system. I think Mr. Sotomayor makes that point very well in his YouTube videos.

  202. Scott says:

    I think Mr. Sotomayor makes that point very well in his YouTube videos.

    Those videos make me feel violent.

  203. Scott says:

    The people the Left hates most are those that the Lefts sees as belonging to them and refuse to.

    I will concede–this is the one exception. Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, et al and the likely daily death threats they get must be quite disturbing for them and their families.

  204. PokeSalad says:

    That’s because while leftoids know and expect us as the Enemy, Thomas, Sowell, et al, are traitors….they left the plantation without permission.

  205. Oscar says:

    @ Scott & PokeSalad

    Agreed. I’ve lived it. Imagine what happens when I state that I – a LEGAL Central American immigrant – oppose illegal immigration and amnesty.

  206. Oscar says:

    Gents,

    It turns out Eddie Murphy made JN’s point years ago.

    Just a little crude, on-topic comic relief.

  207. John Nesteutes says:

    Of course, within our community there is a brisk trade in prospective spouses hopping across borders. Since we tend to share the same culture with each other much more than we would with our host culture, the normal problems of “importing” a woman into another culture don’t apply.

    Importing a foreign woman to live like a westerner is utterly insane: why not just start with a western girl to begin with? You’ll get the same end result.

  208. OKRickety says:

    @John Nesteutes

    Of course, within our community there is a brisk trade in prospective spouses hopping across borders.

    How do those in your community find a wife? The above almost suggests arranged marriages. Is it a business, too (“brisk trade”🙂 )

  209. thehaproject says:

    OKRickety says:
    @John Nesteutes

    Of course, within our community there is a brisk trade in prospective spouses hopping across borders.

    How do those in your community find a wife? The above almost suggests arranged marriages. Is it a business, too (“brisk trade”🙂 )

    Are you kidding? The Mennonites are all up on technology. They just climb onto http://www.e-mennonite.com and enter their criteria. Basically, they can choose from these options:
    Church background: Men and Women sit separately or together.
    Attire: Cape Dress required or simply strongly encouraged.

    Simple.

  210. DrTorch says:

    JN- Bluffton College is Mennonite isn’t it? I’ve read about the garbage being spewed there. I don’t hold out a lot of hope for Mennonites either.

  211. greyghost says:

    Boxer

    If you think Whites are the only ones who get the “man up” speech, you’re deluded. This took me about one second to find.

    White males are not the only ones getting this crap I never said they were. That video you showed is not only tells men to care for a SAHM but he lets women know the score like no preacher I ever heard.
    listen to urban black radio stations and it is pussy worship.

  212. greyghost says:

    There’s really nothing more demonised in America than the black father (nor lionised than the black single mother). In the off chance the black father doesn’t have his kids ripped away from him by false domestic violence allegations, divorce, or child support orders that are impossible to pay, he’ll end up being excoriated for being “too harsh” when disciplining his kids.

    Black fathers can literally do no right in America.

    Looks like John gets it. The things here he describes also fill the primary role of keeping black people on the plantation. The whole purpose of African American culture is to maintain a helpless liberal voting block.

  213. Gunner Q says:

    mikediver5 @ 2:07 pm:
    “If we need to support our positions with scripture, then the best parallel case I can think of is Lot fleeing Sodom.”

    Well, if you have family to protect then it’s a good idea. For the MGTOW/childless among us, we’re free to function as the salt of the Earth and places like Sodom (Francisco) may be where we’re needed. This is one reason I disagree with the “the future belongs to those who show up” crowd.

    The best parallel I find is Revelation’s letter to Thyatira, where the false prophetess Jezebel was teaching sexual immorality and idolatry to God’s people. God’s advice there resonates with me: hold on to what you have.

  214. Signor Farfalla says:

    @Boxer,

    You’re hardly reading my posts at all, I think. Just a cursory glance at my “word salad” then you’re snapped off into your own pre-fabricated anger schemas that have little to do with what I’ve said. It’s happened twice now. Call it off.

  215. Signor Farfalla says:

    @Mike Diver, Scott

    Wow. What a post. East Asia could be an option also. Korea, Singapore, China, Japan. All decent conservative places with much more Christianity than people know (especially Korea).

  216. Boxer says:

    You’re hardly reading my posts at all, I think. Just a cursory glance at my “word salad” then you’re snapped off into your own pre-fabricated anger schemas that have little to do with what I’ve said. It’s happened twice now. Call it off.

    Au contraire, I have read your messages carefully. If I’ve not responded to the strawmen you’ve pulled out of your ass, it’s only to save time and resources. Here’s an example:

    Thanks for the ‘man up’ sermon. Patronizing, arrogant, insulting. Thanks for that. You made my argument for me..exactly..point by point. Shaming, if you don’t fall into line it’s ‘overt whining, grouchy Asperger’s’ etc. In other words “MAN UP.” Big surprise! You even told me to ‘grow up’ Wow. A lot of insults aimed at a guy who is second guessing the tax/alimony mule lifestyle.

    Of course, you can’t point to me shaming you into “manning up” and getting on the “alimony mule lifestyle”. Had you actually read my responses, you’d realize that I’m not married myself and that my position is merely one of respect for differing opinions.

    I also find your veiled racism cowardly. You whine about how White men are persecuted, but you never acknowledge anything deeper. We’d be able to have a conversation if, like Scott, you identified as a White nationalist. We probably wouldn’t agree, but at least there would be discourse and an interesting argument. Talking out of both sides of your mouth isn’t the way to get me to take you seriously or indulge you in conversation.

    I hope this is helpful.

    Boxer

  217. Oscar says:

    Gents,

    There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding about those of us who stubbornly continue to build as Western Civilization crumbles around us. To be clear, it’s NOT an attempt to keep Western Civilization limping along as long as possible.

    We are, in our imperfect ways, following the examples set for us by Godly people throughout history. It’s a step of faith – like Jeremiah buying land just before the Babylonian destruction and exile of Israel (Jeremiah 32) – in God’s promise to preserve a remnant onto Himself regardless of what happens to the empires of men.

    For examples, see Noah, who lived in a time when the wickedness of man grew so great that God exterminated all men except Noah and his family. Note that Noah had a family – a wife and three sons who themselves were married (Genesis 5 – 10).

    See the Israelites who the Babylonian empire took into captivity after God allowed them to destroy Israel as punishment for their wickedness. Read the book of Lamentations for an eye witness account of the horrors of the siege of Jerusalem.

    Lamentations 4:9 Those killed by the sword are better off
    than those who die of famine;
    racked with hunger, they waste away
    for lack of food from the field.
    10 With their own hands compassionate women
    have cooked their own children,
    who became their food
    when my people were destroyed.

    God instructed the survivors through Jeremiah.

    Jeremiah 29:4 This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says to all those I carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon: 5 “Build houses and settle down; plant gardens and eat what they produce. 6 Marry and have sons and daughters; find wives for your sons and give your daughters in marriage, so that they too may have sons and daughters. Increase in number there; do not decrease. 7 Also, seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile. Pray to the Lord for it, because if it prospers, you too will prosper.”

    Israel fell to Babylon. Babylon fell to Persia. Persia fell to Alexander. Alexander left no heir and his empire split in four, then coalesced into two. The western portion then fell to Rome. Rome split into two. The western portion of the Roman Empire disintegrated and fell to barbarians while the eastern portion limped along and fell to the Muslims. And on and on it went and still goes.

    And through it all, God’s people continued to marry, raise families and spread the Gospel.

    So, yes, the future does, in fact, belong to those who show up. For most of us that means raising children we produced naturally and/or adopted. For others that means nurturing spiritual children (1 Cor 4:15). Ideally it’s both.

    Either way, the purpose, the goal, the driving force is to further God’s kingdom, not a human one.

    Finally, keep in mind that the history of God’s people is overwhelmingly a story of families. That is not a coincidence.

  218. Mistral says:

    That kid brings a DOUCHE to school every day, why not tampons?

  219. JDG says:

    Importing a foreign woman to live like a westerner is utterly insane: why not just start with a western girl to begin with? You’ll get the same end result.

    JN – Depending on what you mean by “live like a westerner” and “same end result” I may have to disagree with you on this one. It is my understanding and personal experience that foreign women are a lot less likely to nuke their marriages, so lots of guys are not getting the same result.

  220. JDG says:

    Again, I recommend shopping in a foreign market over this local one. They haven’t learned to hate men yet over there, and the ones I know that came here (and I know a lot) still do not hate men even though they have been living here for many years.

  221. Signor Farfalla says:

    Hey Boxer,

    Thinking of you;

  222. johnnesteutes says:

    @JDG

    An old coworker of mine is on his third marriage and his second Thai wife. Dead bedroomed him after she had a baby.

    Now he’s planning to import from the Philippines.

    @DrTorch

    Those are liberal Mennonites. We conservatives don’t like college or universities very much. The liberal Mennonite schools are all dens of sin and worldliness. No graduate from there would be allowed in leadership at any conservative church.

    The liberal attendance figures decline each year and congregations are getting older. The conservative ones are growing and are full of young families.

  223. Beeker says:

    “Depending on what you mean by “live like a westerner” and “same end result” I may have to disagree with you on this one. It is my understanding and personal experience that foreign women are a lot less likely to nuke their marriages, so lots of guys are not getting the same result.”

    Wrong.

    Please shout this from the roof tops: All women are the same! Foreign women are no different.

    I’m bewildered by American mens’ obsession and fascination with foreign women. Believe me, these foreign women are very familiar with the legal system in the States, and the upperhand and benefits that it gives them. These foreign women who seek American husbands are the most hypergamous women in their countries, and bringing them to America is not going to change that.

    Any American guy who thinks they’re going to just marry a foreign young, pretty woman, and bring her to the States for marriage, and everything work out fine, is absolutely delusional. Once his new wife starts getting attention from other men, she will start weighing her options – it’s female and human nature.

  224. johnnesteutes says:

    @Beeker

    My experience (at least in Canada) is that they also start weighing a lot more on the scale, too.

  225. Boxer says:

    I’m bewildered by American mens’ obsession and fascination with foreign women. Believe me, these foreign women are very familiar with the legal system in the States, and the upperhand and benefits that it gives them.

    I think going foreign makes sense if one is prepared to make the other country his primary home. Much of Latin America and Eastern Europe really isn’t down with the family court shenanigans that go on here, and it might be a viable option.

    Of course, a fella needs to recognize that his second home country can turn rather quickly, if the correct historical conditions are met, and plan for the worst there too. There are no guarantees in this world.

  226. John Nesteutes says:

    @Oscar: Well said, sir.

    @OkRickety:

    How do those in your community find a wife? The above almost suggests arranged marriages. Is it a business, too (“brisk trade”🙂 )

    Plain anabaptism is essentially traditional culture (which is elsewhere almost extinct) combined with Radical Reformation 16th-century theology with a sprinkling of early 20th-century evangelicalism thrown in. Its leaders have recognised that traditional culture is an essential part of Christianity; whilst secular, a Christian can’t live without it, much like a Christian can’t live without proper nutrition. Attempts to reform or replace traditional culture with our mainstream western culture means separating from the community.

    One major distinctive is that the community (of believers) is elevated about the individual and individual preference. Individual marriages are not arranged, but the overall community structure is designed to facilitate individuals arranging themselves into productive marriages. This is how most traditional cultures used to work.

    Young people are placed in an environment where they will be around lots of potential good matches. They are discouraged from being around community outsiders who are guaranteed to be bad matches (e.g. churchian women, worldly men). It doesn’t take very long for a mutual attraction to spark up. At that point, families and church leaders vet the match, and if all goes well, they get married and have a family.

    A big part of this system functioning is to get men tied down with a wife and kids by their early 20s. Then they don’t really have a chance to get into being wild and doing stupid things. Same goes for women.

    The other big part of this is encouraging anyone who doesn’t want to live this lifestyle to voluntarily leave. If a woman wants to cut her hair or a man wants to watch worldly movies, they are welcome to leave. There is a whole host of churchian institutions that pretty much live off of soaking up people who leave plain communities.

  227. John Nesteutes says:

    @Boxer

    There seems to be a lack of understanding of the issues associated with attempting to join a foreign culture. For example, one fellow indicated moving to the Philippines; whilst the family life, Catholic church life, and food there are phenomenal, dealing with the grinding poverty, the government corruption, or the Muslim terrorists there would be enough to not make me want to sign up for the deal.

    Foreigners also have a deep distrust of westerners, as they should. We typically roll into town and then try to destroy their traditional culture, impose feminism, and basically destroy everything they had that was good. You will always, always, always be a foreigner if you try to enter a foreign, traditional culture.

    Westerners who want to opt out of our blue pill culture would do better to find an existing traditional culture in the U.S. and graft themselves into that. Another poster mentioned Ukrainian and Serbian families. Those would be excellent families to marry into, and churches to join.

    Of course to do so you will have to lay down a lot of blue-pill, western, churchian assumptions, like whining that there isn’t a rock band in the church service, or community expectations that seem bizarre and outdated, like mandatory attendance at mundane family events.

  228. AmicusC says:

    to beeker and the others saying foreign chicks are just as bad once they get here, please look at the stats. The US tracks the data on straight up money for bride marriages. the quintessential mail order brides. the divorce rate for those marriages are 20%. tell me again how that is the same as the 50% you run with the locals?

    not going to go find the source its out there. was discussed previously by dalrock or one of the other manospherians.

  229. Beeker says:

    “the divorce rate for those marriages are 20%.”

    Considering what can happen to a man in divorce, that chance is still too high for me.

    Regarding filipina women:

    http://dontmarryafilipinawoman.com

    http://www.stickmanweekly.com/Reader2007/reader4769.htm

    There are many more websites like these, just do a google search.

    Regarding the reality of marriage and divorce law, and female nature, it’s difficult for many men to come to terms with this stuff. Be careful.

  230. Gunner Q says:

    “I’m bewildered by American mens’ obsession and fascination with foreign women. ”

    It’s easier than fighting the system. Not to mention how unattractive America’s fat, hairless, sneering dogs are. She’s an Obese-ian breed!

  231. John Nesteutes says:

    Regularly attending church on Sunday also gets your divorce risk down to 23%. I still think that’s unacceptably high. 0.3% is my acceptable threshold.

    The idea that American women get fat but foreign women don’t is laughably absurd. Unless you plan to go live a third world lifestyle, importing third world women into America will make them fat.

  232. Dave says:

    [Misguided] Wife Has [Typical feminist] Response To Husband’s ‘Make Me A Sandwich’ [Request]

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/05/wife-make-me-a-sandwich-hahaha_n_7215190.html

  233. Scott,

    Ive sent you and email. The email address I use should be there for you to see with the comments Ive made at your site, but I put empathologism in the subject line so you don’t think I’m peddling Cialis.

    (sorry Dalrock for using as a personal message board)

  234. JDG says:

    JN – My wife and I know more than a hundred Asian women married to US men (not exaggerating). Around half of them live fairly close to us. Of the fifty around here the only woman that divorced waited until her husband died to get involved with another man. The other half of that group live out in CA. Out of that group only two women are divorced.

    For anyone reading this, please don’t think you can just marry a foreign girl and all your problems are solved. I’ve read that the stats on divorce involving foreign women is still fairly high (20%), but that’s less than half the number for US women (57%).

    There’s no arguing that if you must marry then moving abroad is your safest option. If relocating is not an option, than vetting in a foreign market is your next best choice IMO. My personal experience and I believe the stats bear this out (sorry I can’t find the link to the CDC page. If anyone has it please share).

  235. WakingUpFinally says:

    I never had a problem buying pads for the wife as long as she wrote down specifically what she wanted, gave me the empty box or lately texted me a picture. No cashier has ever given me a second look in the store, they knew I was buying them for wife/gf.

    Now where I had a problem was at midnight the night before she was to be induced into labor with one of our kids she asked me to buy her an enema. So there I am at 12:30 am in Walmart (pre self checkout lines) dropping a fleet two-pack in front of the moderately cute cashier. Fuck me, I didn’t even try to explain, just paid and got the hell outta dodge.

  236. Dalrock says:

    @Dave

    [Misguided] Wife Has [Typical feminist] Response To Husband’s ‘Make Me A Sandwich’ [Request]

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/05/wife-make-me-a-sandwich-hahaha_n_7215190.html

    The painful photo in the article of him supplicating to his extensively tatted wife reminded me of the Daily Mail pic of the can’t afford a stay at home wife guy (with his legs crossed like a woman).

  237. thehaproject says:

    @Dalrock
    The painful photo in the article of him supplicating to his extensively tatted wife reminded me of the Daily Mail pic of the can’t afford a stay at home wife guy (with his legs crossed like a woman).

    I had a mixed moment when I read that. At first, I saw his comment of “I looked down and started to laugh and proceeded to ask why there weren’t any chips,” I was mentally high-fiving him. Then I saw the picture and his subsequent comment of “Since my wife will probably read this, [the sandwich] was ABSOLUTELY DELICIOUS.”

    So sad.

  238. Anonymous Reader says:

    Dave, Dalrock: the tats really are a tell in general. I sometimes find myself reading tats on men, especially in convenience stores, and other times find myself reading tats on women in coffee places. As soon as I saw the image the whole story made perfect sense. Perfect…

  239. JDG says:

    http://imgur.com/jb65Uyv

    That’s not a sammich.

    This is a sammich:

  240. JDG says:

    Beeker – Wrong.

    Please shout this from the roof tops: All women are the same! Foreign women are no different.

    Yes all women are fallen, but women can be trained from childhood as men can be. That’s not to say men and women are the same, but they can learn at a young age to respect men and marriage and they often do in countries like the Philippines.

  241. JDG says:

    Any American guy who thinks they’re going to just marry a foreign young, pretty woman, and bring her to the States for marriage, and everything work out fine, is absolutely delusional.

    I know many “delusional” men who are still married to foreign women after many years (most over 10, some over 25). Of course it’s not a guarantee, but the odds are far better than with US woman.

  242. JDG says:

    The US tracks the data on straight up money for bride marriages. the quintessential mail order brides. the divorce rate for those marriages are 20%.

    This fits better with my personal experience as none of the couples I’m acquainted with have “straight up money for bride marriages” but rather met through a relative, met online, or met over seas marriages.

    My guess is the “straight up money for bride marriages” are the large part of the 20% stats I’ve read about yet do not see in my circles. Or maybe it’s the country of origin that makes the difference. The majority of the group I know are from the Philippines, though some are from Malaysia and at least one from Vietnam. One other possibility for the discrepancy is that many of the couples I know are either serious Christians or serious Catholics. Either way, these women treat men better by far than there US counterparts.

  243. OKRickety says:

    @John Nesteutes

    I perceive your community is very good at being the body of Christ (the church). The expectation is that children will be raised as Christians, marry other members of the community, be blessed with children, and raise them in the same manner. The community actively encourages this behavior, and actively discourages behavior inconsistent with the ideals of the community.

    This is distinctive in comparison to the typical USA churchian practices of individual privacy and confidentiality, marriage as long as you’re haaaaapy, and extreme avoidance of Christian discipline and restoration. In other words, individuals matter more than the family or the community.

    You say the “leaders have recognised that traditional culture is an essential part of Christianity”. What do you mean by “traditional culture”? You refer to Mennonite distinctions of church seating by sex or not, and “Cape dress” required or not. Is this part of what you mean by “traditional culture”?

  244. JDG says:

    JN – Those are liberal Mennonites. We conservatives don’t like college or universities very much.

    How does one tell the difference between the liberal and conservative Mennonites churches? What questions should one ask for a quick tell?

  245. John Nesteutes says:

    @JDG

    Liberal mennonites dress and act like the world.

    Conservative women always cover their heads anytime you’d be seeing them. They never wear pants, other than two or three barely-conservative sects where culottes are acceptable for athletics.

    Conservative men are a little harder to pick out. I can usually pick them out. Conservative men won’t wear shorts, with the exception of two or three barely-conservative sects, and the more conservative ones tuck in their shirts and don’t wear T-shirts.

  246. John Nesteutes says:

    @OkRickety:

    This is distinctive in comparison to the typical USA churchian practices of individual privacy and confidentiality, marriage as long as you’re haaaaapy, and extreme avoidance of Christian discipline and restoration. In other words, individuals matter more than the family or the community.

    Correct. Outsiders always tell me that I have a problem with gossip. “Mennonites gossip so much. Don’t you know that’s a sin?”

    Sharing information about friends I care about is not gossip. After being away in churchianity for a while, I did have to get used to everyone talking about me behind my back. But it’s not malicious–they are sharing and gathering information to get an accurate picture of me.

    You say the “leaders have recognised that traditional culture is an essential part of Christianity”. What do you mean by “traditional culture”? You refer to Mennonite distinctions of church seating by sex or not, and “Cape dress” required or not. Is this part of what you mean by “traditional culture”?

    “Traditional culture” means the universal norms of marriage and family we saw before the progressive-modern era which started around 1900.

    For example, it used to be normal for the overall culture to regulate a young lady’s attire. The cape dress is a remnant of that. The cape dress itself is not a remnant of traditional culture, but the concept of regulating womens’ clothing choices is.

    Likewise the concept of regulating womens’ sexual behaviour is as well.

  247. John Nesteutes says:

    @TFH:

    It has been heavily documented here that most conservatives don’t like fathers or husbands much either.

    In fact, in relations between men and women, Social Conservatives have proven themselves to be economic leftists, as well as ‘gender is a social construct’ feminists (with their talk of female headship).

    My apologies. I was speaking with JDG and using ‘conservatives’ as an abbreviation for ‘conservative Anabaptists’.

    We don’t have much use for social conservatives or political conservatives either, since they refuse to actually be conservative and live up to the Bible.

  248. Oscar says:

    Here’s the top response to the HuffPo article linked above.

    “Dan Nary · Top Commenter · Works at WV Army National Guard
    My wife is like most women. If I ask her to make me a sandwich while I’m sitting on the couch, she’ll tell me where I can stick it. However, if I mow the grass in 90 degree heat, change the oil, and clean the garage… not only will she bring me a sandwich, she will bring an ice cold beer with it and she’ll do it without me even asking. There is a lesson there, boys. If you act like the man of the house, she’ll treat you like the man of the house.”

    1. The fact she’s married to him is insufficient reason for a wife to demonstrate love for her husband by the simple act of making him a sandwich.

    2. In order to earn the privilege of having her demonstrate love by making him a sandwich, he has to “mow the grass in 90 degree heat, change the oil, and clean the garage”.

    3. Note the enormous disparity of effort required of the husband compared to the reward bestowed by the wife.

  249. JDG says:

    THF (regarding the hamburger robot) – Men have been getting replaced by machines for decades. It was only a matter of time before it happened to women too. Can that robot make a steak sammich too?

  250. greyghost says:

    That is the modern loving wife Oscar
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/straight-single-men-wanting-kids-turn-surrogacy/story?id=16520916

    These guys will be interesting to watch. I wonder if we get enough of them will we have the hood and gang issues from theses fellas. Also I wonder if God is pissed them?

  251. greyghost says:

    TFH
    That robot is going to make some high dollar field service jobs. I hope young men do well in school and get some technical schooling in electro mechanical machine tools. 15 to 25 bucks an hr

  252. John Nesteutes says:

    Guys I know who employe blue collar labourers (relatively unskilled, wages between $10 – $15/hr depending on how good they are) have a difficult time finding anybody.

    The missing skills are:

    1. Showing up on time

    2. Showing up at all

    3. Showing up the day after payday

    4. Not showing up drunk

    5. Not showing up high

    6. Not smoking on the job

    7. Complying with the job’s dress code (e.g. if you are working construction, wearing basketball shorts and running shoes is not acceptable)

    8. Obeying the foreman

    9. Having a good attitude and not arguing with the other workers

    10. Following basic instructions to do simple tasks

    11. Maintaining a running vehicle or figuring out how to ride a bus route to work

    12. Not quitting the job to move across the country with a girl you just met on the Internet

    The problem isn’t a lack of work; the problem is that many people are unable of being productive at all.

  253. greyghost says:

    John
    Your list is a description of blue pill MGTOW That is what it looks like. Men that grow up being told they are worthless and dangerous and what ever all of their life grow up to be those guys.

  254. greyghost says:

    Think of the red pill MGTOW and the productivity of these men
    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/nov/02/men-single-dad-father-surrogacy-adoption
    These guys are motivated the same as any man making themselves marriageable. But they know the truth and are making it happen. Bet there is no problem having one of these guys on the payroll

  255. John Nesteutes says:

    @greyghost

    Blue pill MGTOW is exactly what they are. Most of them don’t have girlfriends, and don’t really have sex reliably, either. They get a little bit every now and then.

    They seem to satisfy their sexual needs with a combination of drugs and porn.

  256. John Nesteutes says:

    @greyghost

    I wouldn’t really want a single dad on payroll. Had those before, lots of issues and drama with child care, doctor visits for the kids, school stuff, etc.

  257. JDG says:

    The problem isn’t a lack of work; the problem is that many people are unable of being productive at all.

    No doubt these are genuine problems, but where I live the state has practically strangled the life out of most small businesses (including contractors).

  258. Oscar says:

    @ John Nesteutes says:
    May 6, 2015 at 3:48 pm

    “Guys I know who employe blue collar labourers (relatively unskilled, wages between $10 – $15/hr depending on how good they are) have a difficult time finding anybody.

    The missing skills are:”

    I work in the petroleum industry in south Texas, and we employ lots (though fewer than we did last year) of men (I’ve only seen one woman in the field) of varying skill levels with the qualifications you list.

    They’re almost 100% Mexican.

  259. Opus says:

    @JDG

    That sandwich needs to be deconstructed.

  260. OKRickety says:

    @John Nesteutes,

    “Traditional culture” means the universal norms of marriage and family we saw before the progressive-modern era which started around 1900.

    For example, it used to be normal for the overall culture to regulate a young lady’s attire. The cape dress is a remnant of that. The cape dress itself is not a remnant of traditional culture, but the concept of regulating womens’ clothing choices is.

    Likewise the concept of regulating womens’ sexual behaviour is as well.

    Perhaps “universal norms” would be better described as “beliefs of the conservative European Christians of the 17th(?) century”.

    Culture still regulates ladies attire, but cultures differ. For example, a woman can be topless on a beach in Italy, but it would be rare in the USA for this to be accepted. There are likely similar differences concerning sexual behavior.

    Note: If readers are, like me, not certain what a cape dress is, google “cape dress mennonite” rather than “cape dress”. Without “mennonite”, you will find mostly dresses that few, if any, would consider modest.

    I was raised in an “independent” Christian Church (a “cousin” of the non-instrumental Churches of Christ). One of the general desires of these churches is to practice Christianity as found in the New Testament. For example, we believe that baptism by immersion of “adult” believers as an essential for salvation.

    I believe that Christians today should live in the New Testament manner. Not in the “traditional culture”, nor according to “universal norms”, but according to the commands and principles found in the New Testament.

    Until, and if, the world becomes sufficiently Christian, the culture and the norms of marriage and family will be what Satan wants. So, for Christians, a primary goal should be to spread the gospel of Christ to all of the world.

    John, I have asked questions because I didn’t know much about Mennonites. Thank you for the answers. I may still ask questions from time to time. I still don’t understand much of the reasoning of Mennonite doctrine, but I do know the Mennonite community is not for me. I wish you and yours well.

  261. JDG says:

    That sandwich needs to be deconstructed.

    Oscar, that sammich needs to be eaten.

  262. JDG says:

    Sorry, Opus not Oscar at 4:55 pm.

  263. PokeSalad says:

    @ John

    I remember reading an article several years ago about a reporter going through the Pennsylvania mining region…where unemployment was at ~ 13%…very depressed area. But he came across a mine that had a huge “Help Wanted” sign, so he stopped and inquired.

    The manager there told him that he was terribly short of employees….he hired beginner workers at 15.00/hr, had a generous benefits package, and a comprehensive follow-on training program for those who would stick around for at least 5 years…including tuition assistance and 401k matching.

    The reporter said, “This is fantastic! You must be drowning in applicants!”

    The manager shook his head sadly…”No. I have plenty of applicants…but most can’t pass a drug screen.”

  264. greyghost says:

    John

    I wouldn’t really want a single dad on payroll. Had those before, lots of issues and drama with child care, doctor visits for the kids, school stuff, etc.

    I see what you mean. I’m a married dad and over the last 5 years the only time I was late on left early was for some family issue other than me. Still a rare occasion. Males must getting soft because I’m old school when it comes to work ethic.

  265. feeriker says:

    Where I live the state has practically strangled the life out of most small businesses (including contractors).

    That’s the situation in nearly all of the states. Even if a particular state is “business friendly,” you can rest assured that federal taxation and regulations will squeeze what little life is left out of any business.

  266. Oscar says:

    JDG says:
    May 6, 2015 at 4:56 pm

    “Sorry, Opus not Oscar at 4:55 pm.”

    It’s all right. I agree.

  267. Dale says:

    Scott said, “it seems to me the MGTOW argument is that they must manifest their disdain in this way in order to hasten the demise of an inevitable fall which in turn will provide an opportunity to rebuild…”
    and Boxer said, “This is why MGTOW is destined to always be a fringe movement. The veiled racism, the anger in the subtext, the overt whining, and the willingness to sneer at anyone who doesn’t follow [their idea]…”

    Maybe we need a different term, or to just accept that any group, MGTOW or otherwise, will have a diverse group of people, and thus diverse opinions.
    I myself see MGTOW as:
    – think for yourself. Do not let someone else make your decisions for you. Especially with respect to the type of marriage I “should” want or be willing to accept.
    – accept that each other person will do the same. (I.e., accept that God gave each person free will)
    And that’s about it. Since I make my own decisions, I decide if marriage to the kind of “Christian” women I see is likely to be good for God’s kingdom or for me. And yes I pray about it, but God does not micromanage every decision for me.
    I think most women are unworthy of marriage, and I refuse to accept pressure that I should pick one of them regardless. However, just today I asked a woman to join me for ballroom dance lessons I am planning to take. I do not think every woman is incapable of submission to God.
    I am willing (and desiring) to marry if it seems wise. This considers the person and the laws to which we will be subject; I think for myself.
    I do not criticize those who marry, although I do sometimes warn of the risks.
    I see the benefits of crashing an evil system, but I can also see the need to live as productively and Godly as we can in whatever situation we find ourselves. (Titus 3:14 “live productive lives”)
    Any bitterness you perceive from MGTOWers is, I think, due to that particular person, not their desire to not be forced into a worse situation. I.e., the desire to have the right to Go Their Own Way, exercising their God-given free will, to best benefit God’s kingdom, themselves and their circle of friends/relatives.

    @John N
    Thanks for the corrections about your community. I’ll contact you.

    >Importing a foreign woman to live like a westerner is utterly insane: why not just start with a western girl to begin with? You’ll get the same end result.

    An important consideration is how we live. If, as a typical Westerner, we are self-absorbed, focus on “our rights” instead of “our responsibilities” and are materialistic people, then yes — I see that ending badly no matter who is involved. I would likely poison her attitudes with my evil conduct.
    What if however, a woman is willing to accept my current (attempts at a) lifestyle of service and obedience to God, buying only what I can justify and can afford rather than whatever I see and crave, etc.? This situation, I think, is far less likely to end up the same bad way. Or so I can hope.
    It seems to me that it should be easier to keep to woman who currently submits to God on that current path, than to take a woman currently in rebellion and change her course. This is the thought behind going to where I will find women currently not in open rebellion against God. (short hair, drunkenness, men’s clothing, etc.) Whether going to a (true) church to find a wife, or going to a non-selfish and non-feminist culture to find a wife, the root principle is the same. JDG’s comment alludes to this also.

    >One major distinctive is that the community (of believers) is elevated about the individual and individual preference.

    Wow, that almost sounds like an Acts church or something! Similar to the (individual) rights versus responsibilities comment above.

    >like whining that there isn’t a rock band in the church service

    Interesting point… the immigrant church I go to had a big argument about the worship music, because an electric guitar and electronic piano were used. Some people certainly got riled up. Personally, my only concern was in not adding rules and regulations onto the word of God (e.g. Matt 15:1-9).

    >Regularly attending church on Sunday also gets your divorce risk down to 23%. I still think that’s unacceptably high.

    Unfortunately, regular “Evangelical” attenders (at least once a week), are at 38% from what I saw. The rates I saw for regular Jewish, Catholic, etc. groups varied significantly. It was interesting that the claimed divorce rates were higher for the group that identified as “Evangelical but not attending at least once a week”, than the non-religious group.

    >The idea that American women get fat but foreign women don’t is laughably absurd.

    Actually, not really. In my friendships in my immigrant church I mentioned, most are a healthy weight. However, I do have to admit that there is a much higher percentage of overweight people in that church here, than what I saw on the streets in Ukraine. Still, there is a very noticeable difference between this church (in Canada) and a “normal” Canadian church.

    @Beeker
    >I’m bewildered by American mens’ obsession and fascination with foreign women. Believe me, these foreign women are very familiar with the legal system in the States, and the upperhand and benefits that it gives them.

    Depends. I go to a church with these immigrants. Some act like Canadians. Others, at least from what I see, have great examples of families that are focused on serving God and maintaining strong marriages. YMMV

  268. anonymous_ng says:

    @Scott – I tried to reply on your blog, but was unwilling to use my google account or create a profile with one of the other services. This is what I was going to put there.

    “I was pretty appalled to read the comments on Fr. Freeman’s article on Ancient Faith. Seems most of the folks on there are just as committed to divorce as their non-Orthodox counterparts.

    Got to love the chin deep irony in an article titled Marriage as a Lifetime of Suffering, how folks are looking to escape their suffering.

  269. Yeep wrote: “For boys who are brought up to reject traditional masculinity and cultivate their feminine side, being confided in by a girl is a rite of passage similar to the rites of passage involving sex. The girl is sharing something intimate with you, she’s chosen you above other boys, from this time on you have knowledge that other boys don’t have. You’re bursting with pride and you don’t want to brag (because that would be too much like traditional masculinity) so you humblebrag in one way or another.

    Tampon boy is better than other boys because he understands the female experience, because girls come to him with their troubles, because he makes himself useful to girls. When you add up all the posing and status jockeying, this kind of boy isn’t all that different from the macho braggarts he thinks he’s so superior to. . . .”

    –This made me think of “The Virgin Suicides”, a very strange and, to me when I read it in my early 20s, intoxicating novel, of which I couldn’t decide then whether it was a truehearted feverish flower of Romantic ecstasy or some sort of very sick joke. Perhaps Eugenides wanted to fabricate a ‘turn it up to 11’ fanzine ode to teenage angst, but the fact that the 1st person plural narrators are in their middle age and still moping about their suicidal admired-from-afar ‘sensitive’ dreamgirls is . . . well– it’s almost like a kind of literary male “fan service” to the FI. With a half-hearted final page of squid ink to the effect that, you know, they were pretty selfish to lead the boys on and then kill themselves and all.

    I never got around to Eugenides’ second novel, about the hermaphrodite; but I skimmed his third book and clearly he’s in terminal cringing beta male mode– now without benefit of the prose poem pyrotechnics.

    It’s conceivable that a certain kind of partial greatness in literature can coexist with this mentality (Napoleon stomached reading “The Sorrows of Young Werther” seven times, reputedly). But the picture you limn so well above, of a boy passively waiting for some girl to spill her social secrets, as if in this he will find the high road to enlightenment, romance, and sex, is so sad– but undoubtedly true now for too many young men, minority as they are of the general population. As if reading poetry weren’t enough of a social handicap today!

    Homer, Vergil, and Milton, with due nod to da GBFM(TM), do not traffic in this sort of breathless passive courtship of girls ready to spill about their Ladytroubles. unless you count Odysseus clinging for life waiting for Charybdis to spew back his raft.

  270. Opus says:

    @JDG

    Not all sandwiches are made to be eaten: we love Sammiches so much that part of the Empire is so named. Yes, it is true, we own and run the South Sandwich Islands as well as the neighbouring South Georgia. Even Iron-Lady Thatcher was heard to ‘rejoice, rejoice’ on the restoration thereof to British Control in 1982 of that sandwich at the time the empire struck back. That shows you how much we love sandwiches. Of course we have lots of other non-edible sandwiches: one of which is famous for its nude beach, should you be minded to take a stroll.

  271. mikediver5 says:

    I found the 20% divorce rate in a 2012 study based on the 2010 census data. Specifically, the study reported that of white men married to Filipina wives, in the US of A, the lifetime divorce rate was 20%. My life experience being involved in the much larger than I thought it would be Filipino-American community is that almost 100% of the 20% is men who have tried to turn a hooker into a housewife.
    If you are intending to find a good wife in a traditional culture you need to look for a wife the way the men of that traditional culture do it. You need to demand things that would be impossible or totally non-PC to ask for in the west. Let me give what I think will help others if they make this decision. You need to look for a properly brought up young lady. This means:

    1. She will be single, never married, and living with her parents no matter how old.

    2. She will be young; as in traditional cultures women marry young and stay married.

    3. Her family will have kept tight control of her; no revealing clothing, no unchaperoned dating (and very little dating period), and of course a virgin (this means a real virgin not a technical virgin).

    4. Her family will insist that they get to know you before they allow you to date their daughter/niece/granddaughter. The dating will be chaperoned.

    5. She will not date you or anyone else for any reason other than to get married; and that right quick.

    6. Her life goals will be to marry and have children. This may come with a career on the side or not, but the family you create together will always be her number one priority.

    7. If you marry you will be expected to become part of her family, and that means supporting her family members as if they were your birth family. Family is the center of their lives. You either adopt this value or don’t marry.

    8. She will be church going and more serious about living her faith than most western women.

    9. She will expect you to be the man in the house, as defined by her culture. This is more alpha than most western men expect or are ready to deliver. She will have traditional culture expectations of the husband and wife’s roles in marriage. Mutual submission is not on the table and neither is you abdicating the captain’s role in a captain first mate relationship. Making all the decisions, even the ones you care not one bit about such as the color of the sheets, can be a real burden.

    10. Once married she will not be going anywhere without you; no girls’ nights out. On the other hand, you will not be going anywhere without her either. In traditional societies that I have experienced the women mate guard fiercely.

    If you want a traditional marriage then you have to go where women have been prepared from birth to want a traditional marriage. You can’t force it on a western woman that has been conditioned from birth in exactly the opposite direction. And, if she has rejected these cultural standards while living in her native country, what makes you think she will not sink as quickly as possible to the low level of our narcissistic, hypergamous, culture in the west?

  272. Mark Citadel says:

    mikediver – the reason why so many white men look for wives in Asia.

    This story is just another white knight masturbation fantasy. The kid is a brainwashed victim of the system, who is likely to have a miserable life being collared and castrated by a likely overweight Feminazi.

    But I digress, this is tame. I mean, when I read storied about judges ruling to give custody of babies to sodomites rather than the biological parent who isn’t a freak, that is when I get heartburn. Modernity is guilty of a range of degrees in evil.

  273. BradA says:

    FH,

    Brad, I don’t like you much. You seem terribly blue pill to me. You don’t like MGTOW because it is the only effective way at bringing down feminism. Men just doing their own shit, not caring about ‘seed corn’ or women or anything but themselves will bring about change like no other.

    Before one can rebuild, you must first destroy.

    You can think of me as blue pill if you want. I am not, though I am certainly not a flaming red piller either, as I think we need to consider all the implications. I aim to be more of a Lord-piller or reality-piller.

    Destroying society is more likely to bring something far worse, not something better. That is why I cannot waive the “burn it all down flag,” though I will strongly articulate for doing many things to highlight and even break the modern system.

    I have never followed someone else’s plans, even when I had ideas that were much more blue pill in my mind. I have gone through enough of my own experiences to know that women are not the angels society proclaims and that many of the problems today are due to the misbalance we have.

    I do have to balance this with the idea that proper civilization will only survive if people have and raise children in solid ways, something that is very rare and hard to have happen today. I know what happens when society turns against you parenting and you no longer have any hope of children supporting you later in life. I also know what is right and what the Scriptures proclaim and I will always stand for those.

    “You don’t like MGTOW because it is the only effective way at bringing down feminism.”

    When did you learn to read minds? I don’t like MGTOW because it is not following God’s command to occupy until He returns. I also despise feminism since it is outside God’s clearly designated plan for humanity. Both are abominations as they elevate man over God.

    Ease of life is not an option God puts before us. Walking out His will is the choice. Figuring out exactly what that is remains a life long pursuit.

    Scott,

    I agree that when BradA equivocates it can be frustrating. I have not figured him out yet. He is either a brilliant erudite academic making sophisticated arguments I just don’t understand, or he is arguing like a woman, who is trying to sound like a man. (I accept there may be another option–just being facetious.)

    It is more the “I think too much” that the other, though I am sure others would disagree. I welcome you to point out where I supposedly equivocate to note any inconsistencies. I am not perfect, but I aim to be consistent. The opinionated is automatic. I could agree with several of the other hard core ones here, but then we would both be wrong, to quote one preacher I sometimes listen to.

    Core truth is basic and consistent, but it is far too easy to think we have a lock on it only to find how wrong we are. I have not had the troubles of some here, though I have had more than my share in other ways. Losing the 4 children you raise to a man who allowed them to be in a situation worthy of removal is a tough thing to handle, as just one part.

    If one of those MGTOW came to my home, and was a good, Christian man ready to court my daughter, won’t you be glad someone was raising her?

    A MGTOW man would never come to your door after your daughter based on what most here write. The ones that might come would be there to pump and dump her. That is the essence of MGTOW.

    I am not sure exactly which views you would group with “Christian MGTOW” though and I have not heard many (any?) promulgated here. Who talks of MGTOW as the Apostle Paul seemed to live? I can’t recall a single one doing so. I do read a lot crying about Churchianity, but without any positive alternative.

    Note as well that I am not trying to defend you or anyone else, even in the generic. I am trying to speak for what is true and refine my ability to do so. I am not doing as good a job at it as I should most likely, since this is far too long, but that is the driver. I will serve truth even when I cannot fully understand it and I view the Scriptures as the ultimate source of that truth.

    DrTorch,

    These challenges aren’t new.

    [Ecc 1:9 KJV] 9 The thing that hath been, it [is that] which shall be; and that which is done [is] that which shall be done: and [there is] no new [thing] under the sun.

    Yeah, it sucks today. But it has sucked many times in the past. We are just too used to a very comfortable culture and living to realize we still have it better than most of history.

    Regular Guy,

    Who cares?

    God does. That is enough for me. I could go through Scriptures noting how He told people to prosper under the Babylonians, as an example of living in a very wicked society, but it would do no good. Believe what you want, but I see more than the nihilism that is the guiding factor of many who post here and similar thoughts.

    PuffyJacket,

    Let’s be clear about this. Women are eating the “seed” corn of civilization.

    They are eating it as well. It is a big party with what has been done before. Eating the corn rather than planting enough of it for the next generation means that it will eventually run out, likely with some really nasty times, far worse than I suspect even those who “enjoy the decline” really realize or want personally.

    Boxer,

    I don’t have a problem being called out.

    I think you know, but I just realized it still applied, but you are likely correct in your assessment of the situation. I would not push you to marry, just note that your lifestyle is likely possible only because of past efforts of others. I would apply that even more to others (including feminists) as I noted above.

    You do correctly note the “one true way” problem with a lot of MGTOW. Life is not that binary, yet we are told it is. The modern situation will likely continue long past where I think it can and should, but it will eventually fall.

    Some like Scott will probably help rebuild, though I doubt the rebuilding process will be as simple as some imply.

    I have no idea what to do, so I put the Lord’s ways first. I am quite prone to being like Elijah and being willing to just quit, saying it is all hopeless. I do not because my Lord has told me to not quit. Jeremiah didn’t get to quit and I would argue that his time as at least as bad as now and likely worse, certainly for him.

    All of you with so much wisdom should tell me what I should do and where I should live in the future. I suspect my adopted Texas home may not be viable when I am much older, but I see no place to go since I have no extended family to rely on. I do not expect my wife to provide for me when I am old and I do not have reliable children to do so. I guess the Smith and Wesson retirement plan some MGTOW’s champion is my best plan, right?

    How many of you MGTOW advocates have thought that far ahead?

    And no, I will not brag of banging ladies I am not married to as some old ones here have. Nor am I positioned to get a younger Latina wife as AnonXX did.

    So what is your grand plan for the long term? How will you survive when you are 80? 90? Or is your plan limited to bashing those who disagree?

  274. BradA says:

    I may have missed some replies, so let me know if I missed a key point I needed to comment on.

    I didn’t intentionally ignore anything, though point out the specifics if you think I did so.

  275. greyghost says:

    BradA there is more to MGTOW than the relationship with women.

  276. BradA says:

    I wouldn’t have gotten that from your posts here greyghost. At least yours point on the non-relationship with a women in the childbirth area.

    It is about that whether you admit it or it is implied.

    Though I would agree that anyone completely “going their own way” is not following God’s commands. We need to go His way, not our own. We have a lot of latitude in that as far as I can see, but it is still controlled by the one who should be our Lord, not ourselves.

  277. Beeker says:

    “Though I would agree that anyone completely “going their own way” is not following God’s commands. We need to go His way, not our own. We have a lot of latitude in that as far as I can see, but it is still controlled by the one who should be our Lord, not ourselves.”

    Jesus, as far as I know, did not marry or have kids (neither do priests). So, I don’t see a problem with a guy going MGTOW (no marriage, cohabitation and being childfree).

  278. Beeker says:

    Also, I should add, MGTOW can still have children if they want.

  279. Pingback: Tampon Boy: extra absorbency for heavy days of end-stage frivolousness | Murica Derp

  280. Spike says:

    Dalrock says:
    May 2, 2015 at 12:27 pm
    @Random Angeleno

    The ex once called me at work and as I was supposed to stop at the store on the way home from work, she asked me to add tampons to my list. I normally considered that her business so I wasn’t that familiar with her preferred brand. Hence it shouldn’t surprise anyone that I got confused when standing in front of the display and picked the wrong box. For which I was excoriated. On the bright side, she never asked me to do that again.

    Did you explain that you asked all of the nice ladies in the store which would be best for a heavy flow, and this is the one 7 out of 10 suggested?

    I’m reminded that every time a tampon ad was on the television, my now late father would rail at the woman on the set selling the product in her earnest tones. He would yell,

    “Why don’t you stick one in your mouth and save us listening to this s**t”!

  281. Spp says:

    There is nothing wrong with a guy buying pads or tampons for his wife/girfriend.
    My husband 43 years old buys my pads every month when he goes and picks up his monthly medications.
    My son,17 years old has went to the isle for my husband to grab them when my husband was waiting for his medicine.
    Any guy who is to sissy to buy them is not a man at all.
    I mean do you think the people at the register or in the store think they are for you?if so they are dumb

  282. Pingback: Real men don’t just carry purses, they restock them too. | Manosphere.com

  283. Hells Hound says:

    The manager shook his head sadly…”No. I have plenty of applicants…but most can’t pass a drug screen.”

    Appalachia is finished. Forget about it.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/367903/white-ghetto-kevin-d-williamson

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