Laura Lifshitz hits the bigtime

Divorce is big business, and this isn’t limited to the family courts and the wide range of cogs in the machinery that destroys families.  When women aren’t destroying their own families, they like to read, watch, and think about other women destroying their families.  But while the demand is enough for online magazines like Huffington Post to create a separate section just for divorce, there is an army of women who want to be writers.  Moreover, with nearly half of all marriages ending in divorce, divorcées are a dime a dozen.

Laura Lifshitz got her start as a professional divorcée at Huffington Post Divorce back in late January of this year.  Her maiden post Why You Should Date My Ex-Husband was a passable contribution to the category, but not good enough to make her stand out.  In the six weeks that followed she cranked out another 12 posts for Huffington Post Divorce, but being productive in a crowded genre isn’t enough.  Like all professional divorcées, Lifshitz needs something extra, something that makes her stand out in the din of all of the other divorcées writing about the destruction of their family.

professionaldivorceevenn

Last week Lifshitz found her niche.  She took a page from Susan Gregory Thomas’ playbook and wrote about how much her frivolous divorce is harming her young child.  This is always a crowd pleaser, allowing women fantasizing about divorce to imagine the divorce causing immense pain to innocent children.  While Lifshitz is no Susan Gregory Thomas, her piece ‘I Miss My Daddy. Divorce Stinks.’ was enough to get her published in the New York Times mommyblog, Motherlode.

This entry was posted in Laura Lifshitz, New York Times, Professional Divorcee, selling divorce, Ugly Feminists. Bookmark the permalink.

524 Responses to Laura Lifshitz hits the bigtime

  1. Pingback: Laura Lifshitz hits the bigtime | Manosphere.com

  2. Opus says:

    Exactly how should one pronounce her name?

  3. Pingback: Laura Lifshitz hits the bigtime | Neoreactive

  4. BradA says:

    I notice reading the comments that at least a few women have already taken the “it isn’t bad over the long run” approach, but as a child of divorce and as the one doing that.

    They are full of it. It impacted my life until my mother recently died. (My father has been dead over a decade.) I don’t know future impact, but it kept me from many things I could have had with an intact two parent family.

    They present the only alternatives as an arguing home and a split home. What about having a home where the two adults involved deal with the arguing and stop that?

  5. I’m just… ill. Where does the narcissism end? At what point can a person not claim perma-victim status for imagined injustice that’s actually just we-were-selfish-monkeys biology?

  6. greyghost says:

    Dalrock

    Is that Lifes-shits a real name or some parody stuff you came up with?

    [D: It is real.]

  7. easttexasfatboy says:

    Assuming that that is her name, well, she may not be interested in karma, but karma is interested in her.

  8. Matt Robison says:

    I was 28 when my parents divorced. It doesn’t “get better.” It still sucks, even though I hadn’t lived with them for almost a decade. It continues to cast a pall over all family events, and its just one more thing to think about *all the time.*

    It does get easier. But it doesn’t get better.

  9. @BradA – Everyone says that it’s ok in the long run. Let’s look at the long run in my life (parents separated when I was 23): I dropped out of grad school with one year of work left to do, hitchiked around the middle east trying to get myself killed. Similarly in: Alaska, Norway, UK, and everywhere else in the world. I signed up to be ‘boots on the ground’ but missed my chance to go to ‘ganners. Ended up ‘settling’ 6,000miles from my family.

    Note: these are all my fault and I accept full responsibility for my highly irresponsible actions.

    One sister ended up in NZ. Every sibling has gotten a minimum of 1,000 miles away from home almost immediately after age 18. We still have a great family. Just not what it would have been. All the children are trying to make their lives away from the narcissism. Perhaps one day we’ll bring our son to see his family. God will have to continue to get ahold of me for that to be possible. His grace is always good so in that sense there are benefits.

    “It’s good in the long run” – drinking gasoline might be a good way to lose weight but there are better ways to do it.

  10. Boxer says:

    What about having a home where the two adults involved deal with the arguing and stop that?

    Heaven forbid that adults should act like adults, and be held to a reasonable standard of behavior. The next thing you’ll suggest, you fookin’ misogynist, is that people should keep their promises and commitments. Wow, just wow.

    Boxer

  11. Hawk&Rock says:

    HuffPo is a showcase for execrable human beings who fancy themselves part of the literati.

    It very efficiently aggregates, distills, magnifies and dispenses cultural rot. I would guess it has won all kinds of awards.

  12. sonofdeathswriter says:

    Dear Lord,

    Dafuq!! Is wrong with these women!

    Yours truly,
    SDW

  13. Oh Dalrock… I was reading her stuff before she ever mentioned that they were having marriage troubles… it is just so sad. I don’t understand it – the why I mean…. But yea, I’ve watched her progress like this, and read her recent (hit)I think last week. So sad.

  14. “When women aren’t destroying their own families, they like to read, watch, and think about other women destroying their families”

    No… for me it’s been more like watching a horrible trainwreck that I knew the end to. Really sad.

  15. Anonymous Reader says:

    Rollo: major league hamsterbation in that news feature video, I wonder if the sideways cross is a tell? And how do they know that the kid is “happy”, I wonder? Couldn’t be rationalization, could it?

    Bonus hamsterlation points for the dude in the gamma t-shirt saying “we were pregnant”. No, bonehead, she’s the one who is pregnant, I dunno what you’re doing there but for sure you are not gestating.

    At least Not All Millennials Are Like That…

  16. Scott says:

    Several folks upthread have discussed the issues associated with parents who divorce “late,” which flies in the face of conventional wisdom regarding child outcomes.

    (Namely, as long as you make it their 18th birthday, the effect is negligible!)

    I would second (or third) those sentiments. I can’t really discuss what I think went wrong (since I blog and comment in the open). I just want to agree that the effects are different, but no less severe.

  17. @Rollo Tomassi

    The money quote from your linked article: Ronald Mincy of Columbia University’s School of Social Work: “….if men are not earning high wages, there’s less draw to get married.”

  18. Dalrock says:

    @girlwithadragonflytattoo

    Oh Dalrock… I was reading her stuff before she ever mentioned that they were having marriage troubles… it is just so sad. I don’t understand it – the why I mean…. But yea, I’ve watched her progress like this, and read her recent (hit)I think last week. So sad.

    Was this on PopSugar? From her CV it appears that getting divorced was what brought her up to Huffington Post and eventually the NYT mommyblog.

  19. What a name?! Haha, love it!

    It’s hard to take society seriously anymore.. do they really think that damaging your children is a worthwhile thing to do? I talk to countless married men about these issues and they always think they are immune, that their special snowflake won’t flake on them.

    When a woman is unhappy, she would destroy the entire planet if she could, before she would learn to live with it.

  20. Opus says:

    May I observe that women seem to delight in reading about misery happening to children (and by children I do not mean seventeen year olds). There is an entire sub-genre of literature (MizLit) devoted to the stuff. It is the acceptable (though sadistic) form of Child Porn.

  21. earl says:

    When person has no idea how to construct something… they goes into the glorious details on how they destroy something.

  22. Matthew Chiglinsky says:

    Aren’t you being just a bit cynical and paranoid about this? I mean, what exactly is wrong with a woman writing a story that demonstrates how divorce can harm young children? A story like that sounds like a parable meant to teach a lesson, something that might actually discourage women from getting divorces in real life (as common sense suggests that harming children is a bad thing).

  23. earl says:

    ‘First comes love, then comes marriage, then comes baby in the baby carriage … or so the old taunt goes. Increasingly in America, though, the middle step is missing, and not totally for reasons of changing morals.

    It’s the economy.’

    Swing and a miss. And they were so close to getting it…even mentioned it in the previous paragraph.

  24. hoellenhund2 says:

    It’s hard to take society seriously anymore.. do they really think that damaging your children is a worthwhile thing to do?

    They don’t care. Their children remind them of their husbands, whom they regret marrying, and they resent the whole situation.

  25. Novaseeker says:

    Blast from the past here on someone making the “Big Time” — and a pretty cool song in its day …

  26. RedPillPaul says:

    You mean all this time “do it for the children” was really “do it for the wimenz”?

    Society is becomeing more bold and abandoning moral cover.

  27. Novaseeker says:

    Aren’t you being just a bit cynical and paranoid about this? I mean, what exactly is wrong with a woman writing a story that demonstrates how divorce can harm young children? A story like that sounds like a parable meant to teach a lesson, something that might actually discourage women from getting divorces in real life (as common sense suggests that harming children is a bad thing).

    @Chiggers —

    Is that what she’s really doing? Have you examined her oeuvre in total?

  28. unsigma says:

    Makes it hard to let go of the anger phase

  29. Dalrock says:

    @Novaseeker

    @Chiggers —

    Is that what she’s really doing? Have you examined her oeuvre in total?

    Had he merely read the article I linked to he would know she isn’t trying to teach other women not to divorce.

  30. Dalrock says:

    @Unsigma

    Makes it hard to let go of the anger phase

    My sincere apologies. My intent is to point out something very ugly which has become accepted as normal. The denial here is deep, because it is hard to imagine someone would do what these women tell us they are doing.

  31. Boxer says:

    Exactly how should one pronounce her name?

    I’ve been struggling with whether to post this, as I’m sure it’s evidence of my latent antisemitism, but whatever. I’ve dated a lot of Jewish chicks in my time, and feel lucky that I never married any of them. Shebrews are the absolute worst for raping men over the coals in divorce. They even surpass (but not by much) Mormon women for their sickening self-righteousness. (If that’s possible).

    I don’t know exactly why this is. I just know all the dudes who got married to Jewish bitches and know what’s happening to them, and what has happened to them. One friend from high school married a religious girl from New York City. She was pretty goodlookin’. Apparently she was also a closet dyke who felt the need to “come out” after he had hit his stride and was making decent money (just a coincidence that she divorced him when he had something to take, of course). The poor fucker has probably paid her most of what he’s earned in the last ten years, and is dirt broke for the mistake of marrying this shrike.

    I actually looked the bitch up on the electric feminist (Facebook). I had to laugh. She’s there with her big ugly dyke girlfriend, living in his house. Par for the course.

    So maybe Mark from T-dot can back me up here. What makes those cute, sweet, feminine Jewish chicks turn so bad, so quickly, once you slap a ring on them?

    Boxer

  32. I agree anyone is fooling themselves if divorce does not leave a mark for life. My parents divorced when I was in high school. It is not to say we are unable to used by God for his good purpose wherever we find ourselves in life. We all adapt and cope to the situations around us, we have to, but if we can live sacrificially for each other, serving one another in love, looking to each others’ interest rather than our own, in the end we will be much better off.

  33. MrTweell says:

    Munchausen by proxy, mental abuse section.

  34. earl says:

    ‘I don’t know exactly why this is.’

    Rumor has it that they are taught they are the chosen ones and that everyone else is basically cattle. If that it is true, that is the type of world view which would make it hard to be married to them.

    Now it could also be the propping of females into making them think they are goddesses and that men are the cattle would also lead to making them hard to marry. Perhaps Jewish women are no different from any other woman who has this thinking.

  35. Reading the comments likely will have me tense for the whole afternoon. Its easy to sit here in these comments and think there is some sanity in the world.

    Recently some old and dear friends of ours separated. The man is living elsewhere. (You may pass him on the bridge Dalrock). My wife talked the woman down two years ago when she did the same thing. This time the woman has not contacted my wife. I spoke to the man and he sounded better than he has in years. I had theorized to my wife that this man was so oppressed by this raw emotional woman daily speaking her monotone empathy seek with furrowed brow that he will be his old self if he gets away. I cannot advocate the divorce. There are no grounds nor even compelling reasons….after 26 years. But I cannot ignore the man’s sudden improvement in vocal inflection and enthusiasm not daily trying to meet some need that his wife should have reigned in as a teenager.

    I also cannot help but think that women like several in the comments re the NYT article who made statements like “he made me into a zombie and ruined me” are actually more like the woman in the couple Ive mentioned. So needy they are that first they drain the life from the man, then they double down on discontent because the man is lifeless. Its a core principle that at the very basic level men like that will plod ahead and suffer silently. Any whiff of said suffering becomes the problem the wife cites to leave.

    So they say what other commenters there said. “It was my children who restored me to who I was before I divorced him”. Add this dynamic to the damage the kids already have due to divorce. From extreme parental alienation to more subtle emotional leaning on kids to insidious bouts of anger and impatience with little children as mommy needs to stay on the phone with her friends and have “important talks” (basking in the empathy…..imagine the empathy surge if your pain is in the NYT)

    The metric by which women decide their kid is unharmed by divorce is tailor made to barely bump up against the line which, if crossed, would have them saying of other kids of divorce that they are suffering. Using therapy balls and all that crap is so first world privileged as to be sickening to me. And women lap it up like sweet condensed milk in a kitty bowl.

  36. Matthew,

    Aren’t you being just a bit cynical and paranoid about this? I mean, what exactly is wrong with a woman writing a story that demonstrates how divorce can harm young children? A story like that sounds like a parable meant to teach a lesson, something that might actually discourage women from getting divorces in real life (as common sense suggests that harming children is a bad thing).

    As has been said already by Nova and Dalrock, that is not at all the lesson from the story. You need to re-read it. There is not a single drop of remorse on Laura’s part in regards to her divorce, none. All there is, is a story about a divorced mom who now has it so tough because she has to deal with a 4 year old who was NOT okay with this divorce. This is a story for women who fantasize about frivorcing their husbands and how to teach them how to cope with a young child who is NOT their ally in the frivorce.

    Little girls really get broken up about parents divorcing. I would go as far as to say that girls are harmed worse than boys when their parents divorce (the damage is exaserbated into her adulthood, harms her ability to bond with a young man far worse than it does a now adult son of divorced parents in his bonding with a young woman.) And girls miss their fathers terribly when they are not around mom’s house (especially when their daddy was a source of comfort, strength, and patient understanding, three qualities that are typically missing from mommies who think only of what is important to themselves.) This author apparently doesn’t get that or if she does, she doesn’t care. Her’s is not a story of regret that readers can learn from in how not to make her mistakes. Hers is a story of selfishness and pride and smug arrogance where she is teaching women to understand that little girls aren’t always going to see things mommy’s way and that is THEIR failings, not mommy’s.

  37. Boxer says:

    Rumor has it that they are taught they are the chosen ones and that everyone else is basically cattle.

    One of my first serious girlfriends in college was a Jewish chick with fiery red hair and perfect body. Her parents (religious) were actually really nice to me, and I didn’t detect any bigotry at all. Really glad I didn’t marry her. She’s now making her second husband’s life hell (Facebook destroys lots of childhood fantasies — it’s the only good use of it IMO).

    My tribe (Mormons) are more invested in this looney supremacist nonsense than Jews seem to be, by far — but that’s just my experience.

  38. earl says:

    ‘So needy they are that first they drain the life from the man, then they double down on discontent because the man is lifeless.’

    It’s the epitome of selfishness and avoiding that the problem is within them. It isn’t external factors.

  39. feeriker says:

    Is that Lifes-shits a real name or some parody stuff you came up with?

    Paging Mark in Toronto … once again, paging Mark in Toronto…

  40. earl says:

    ‘My tribe (Mormons) are more invested in this looney supremacist nonsense than Jews seem to be, by far — but that’s just my experience.’

    Could be, considering what I read Joseph Smith’s ultimate goal was…but most Mormons I’ve met are fairly nice too. You just never know if it is sincere or not.

  41. feeriker says:

    Matt Robison says:

  42. b0xer,

    Your “tribe” is (generally) made up of very nice people. I am surrounded by them where I live.

  43. Glenfilthie says:

    “What about having a home where the two adults involved deal with the arguing and stop that?

    The biggest blunder of Western society is the assumption that women are ‘adults’ simply due to their calendar age.”
    ——————————————————————————————————————

    I don’t think so. If you look at the women from older generations, they are not only more mature than today’s women in the calendar sense – they are more mature and intelligent with their mindsets and outlooks too. Think of the housewife of the Dirty 30’s: those women were legendary for their strength and resourcefulness – as were their men. No woman of that era would let herself be tyrannized by a four year old – much less write about it and admit to it. I blame liberalism – that ideology revolves around separating stupid people from the consequences of their actions and laying the blame on ‘society’ or ‘men’ or ‘patriarchy’ or some other conservative bogeyman. If these women are immature then there are hoards of men that are too.

    I will give Miss Liftedshit part marks: it sounds like they tried for an amicable separation and that is something to be applauded. She also seems to take some responsibility for the divorce.

  44. empath,

    Reading the comments likely will have me tense for the whole afternoon.

    Yes don’t read them. This particular comment (no matter how truthful)….

    shirley s
    wisconsin2 days ago
    divorce is ALWAYS about the parents feelings first and foremost. The child is ALWAYS secondary. No amount of discussion changes that fact.

    …brought nothing but wrath from the other commenters.

  45. greyghost says:

    Glenfilthie
    Those old women as you say are the same as the women today. Society was different. They (women) didn’t vote, (no liberalism) Also the childlike personality was controlled by law and culture with a little reality on the side. . (Feminist called it the patriarchy) The behavior and character you described is the same selfish hypergamy you see today applied the way woman could to selfishly get what they want. remember in 1912 on the famous Titanic the survival rate for women was 20% higher than it was for children. Women then will gladly let a child die in freezing water in her place then as well as now with frivorce and abortion no different. The society as well as the church is different

  46. The Jack Russell Terrorist says:

    Feeriker. Yes Lipshitz is her real last name. The actor Hal Linden’s last name is Lipshitz.
    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0511604/

    Just like the name Dung is not uncommon in Vietnam.

  47. cynthia says:

    My boyfriend is a product of a broken home. His mother divorced his father when he was very young, but even over twenty years later, he still has this simmering anger over it. He says what makes him angriest about it is not his father’s absence, but his mother’s solipsism. She’s a very nice woman, but she is completely clueless as to how her behavior has affected her son. It seems like he replaced his father as the most important man in her life, and he seems to have lost an important component of his childhood to it. She may have found meaning in him, but all that really means is that she emotionally and psychologically replaced an adult man with a six year old child. Very strange.

    As far as why women like this stuff…Dalrock, have you ever watched Bridezillas? There are a few seasons up on Netflix right now. It’s quite disdainful of the nastiness on display, and the narration is consistently critical of the brides. (If you have Netflix and a few hours to burn, the horrific Jeanine episode has the best ending of the entire series’ run) Wedding shows are naturally aspirational, but I was surprised to learn that it was a woman’s channel that produces that particular show. But then I remembered; women gauge their own success by the failures of others around them.

  48. SirHamster says:

    They present the only alternatives as an arguing home and a split home. What about having a home where the two adults involved deal with the arguing and stop that?

    Growing up in an arguing home, I would never trade it for a divorced home. I still remember mom screaming something about wanting a divorce in some argument, and me feeling unsettled about it. (Thankfully, they’re still married)

    Too young at the time to understand why, but I believe the instinct is correct.

  49. Anonymous Reader says:

    Scott on “later” divorce as No Big Deal
    (Namely, as long as you make it their 18th birthday, the effect is negligible!)

    I would second (or third) those sentiments. I can’t really discuss what I think went wrong (since I blog and comment in the open). I just want to agree that the effects are different, but no less severe

    +1 on that. Man I worked with, 24 or so years old, was just going to grad school when he found out his parents were going to divorce. Yeah he was the youngest offspring and out of the house so “no big effect” right? Negatory. Last time I talked to him someone accidentally brought up divorce rates and the pain that flashed across his face was plainly visible. There’s no shortage of studies indicating that such a divorce may well affect the marriage stability of offspring down the road.

    Children of divorce are affected, even in their 20’s, by that event. I’ve seen it.

  50. Trace the cord of social pathology back to the wall plug and you’ll most often find one prong missing because it was divorced by the other. No heat, no light.

  51. earl says:

    I keep saying that divorce is legalized child abuse. And it appears the emotional scars last longer than the physical ones.

  52. “The Facts of Life” was a tender, innocent, yet ground breaking television show for pre-teen and teen aged girls in the late 1970s and early 1980s. They touched on important, life changing issues, and showed them in a way as for young girls to understand that life is not always fair, nor is it easy. Moreover, they also touched on very dark issues in a manner to help girls cope with trauma that could occur in their lives. One such episode aired in 1981 called “Breaking Point.”

    In this particular episode, the protagonist (Blair Warner) lost a school election to another girl named Cynthia. Blair was named vice president and that was very disheartening for her. But Blair’s discontent was not the focus point of this episode. It was Cynthia. In going to congratulate Cynthia on her victory, one of the girls discovers a very sleepy Cynthia with an empty bottle of pills. They later find out that Cynthia committed suicide. And the remainder of the show is counseling the grief experienced by these girls saying goodbye to their classmate who felt she had to throw away God’s greatest gift. What is only very casually mentioned in that episode was the motive for Cynthia to do such a dastardly thing. It appears, she found out that her parents were getting divorced. That was the reason she killed herself.

    I mentioned “The Facts of Life” in that context on this thread to put this situation with our writer Laura and her 4 year old daughter into perspective. “Breaking Point” aired 34 years ago. I don’t think television writers for any program targetting an audience of pre-teen and teen aged girls would dare re-create anything like what we saw 34 years ago. The feminist imperative would prevent them from doing so because the entire concept of a 14 year old girl killing herself over something so trivial and everyday as divorce, is something that I don’t think they could ever imagine. Instead, we have sh-t like what Laura writes, self-centered women focusing only on how to relate to children who choose not to be their allies when mommies choose to invoke their freedom to nuke their own marriages.

    I think Laura Lifshitz needs to sit down and watch a 34 year old episode of “The Facts of Life.”

  53. Bob the Titan says:

    @Dalrock:
    Been reading for half a year, first time commenter. Found something you might find interesting as well as the community at large; I’d subtitle it “Planning for Frivorce”:

    “Why I Want My First Marriage To Be Money And My Second To Be For Love”
    http://elitedaily.com/women/want-first-marriage-money-second-love/939874/

    I most particularly liked the paragraph:
    “Perhaps we should then marry for love when we’re both in good places. When we both can support our decisions from grown-up places and make financially-sound choices.”

    Infantilizing herself even though she’s in her twenties. SMH. Then again, I must laud her honesty, although I doubt that article will help her land her first cashcow… I mean husband.

  54. Beeker says:

    “Women then will gladly let a child die in freezing water in her place then as well as now with frivorce and abortion no different.”

    I’ve officially given up on women now.

  55. Beeker says:

    “I don’t think so. If you look at the women from older generations, they are not only more mature than today’s women in the calendar sense – they are more mature and intelligent with their mindsets and outlooks too. Think of the housewife of the Dirty 30’s: those women were legendary for their strength and resourcefulness – as were their men.”

    Be careful not to romanticize a past history that never existed.

    Female nature never changed, society, namely weak men, just removed its constraints and the worst of female behavior is now left unchecked.

    Regarding female behavior:

    In Schopenhauer’s 1851 essay Of Women, he expressed his opposition to what he called “Teutonico-Christian stupidity” on female affairs. Schopenhauer wrote that “Women are directly fitted for acting as the nurses and teachers of our early childhood by the fact that they are themselves childish, frivolous and short-sighted”. He opined that women are deficient in artistic faculties and sense of justice, and expressed opposition to monogamy. Indeed, Rodgers and Thompson in Philosophers Behaving Badly call Schopenhauer “a misogynist without rival in….Western philosophy.” He claimed that “woman is by nature meant to obey”. The essay does give some compliments, however: that “women are decidedly more sober in their judgment than [men] are” and are more sympathetic to the suffering of others.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Schopenhauer#Views_on_women

    “Woman: The Most Responsible Teenager In The House”:

    ”The nobler and more perfect a thing is, the later and slower is it in reaching maturity. Man reaches the maturity of his reasoning and mental faculties scarcely before he is eight and twenty; woman when she is eighteen; but hers is a reason of very narrow limitations. This is why women remain children all their lives, for they always see only what is near at hand, cling to the present, take the appearance of a thing for reality, and prefer trifling things to the most important.” — Arthur Schopenhauer, On Women (1851)

    http://no-maam.blogspot.com/2012/06/woman-most-responsible-teenager-in.html

  56. earl says:

    ‘Female nature never changed, society, namely weak men, just removed its constraints and the worst of female behavior is now left unchecked.’

    How did weak men remove its constraints…well what did God tell Eve her curse was?

  57. Brookes says:

    Given the fact that these horrible bougie writers sure won’t stop talking about their divorces, it’s interesting how the reason for the divorce is always conspicuously absent in the articles. If it is, it’s always some nonsense about how she “needed space to grow.” If I heard a woman say that, I would roll my eyes so hard it would hurt.

    Just googled Lifshitz and got a better look at who this nightmare is. In her twitter photo, her daughter looks like she’s about 4. So she divorced when her daughter was A TODDLER. The worst possible age for a kid to experience divorce. She tweeted a link to her article about her divorce’s effect on her kid along with the phrase: “It’s not about me. It’s about my daughter:
    #Divorce #KidsAndDivorce” So much denial involved in branding herself as Mommy Martyr. Another article she linked to in her twitter is a pro-slut article she wrote for yourtango.com in which she laments how unfair it was that everyone in her high school called her a slut based on only rumors. She also mentions in the same article that her first sexual experience was at 14 with three adult men at the same time. The article concludes with an “it gets better” reassurance for all the sluts out there: “Today, though? I am a professional with a career. An Ivy League college graduate.”

    What a nightmare this woman is.

  58. earl says:

    Here’s something pertinent.

    ‘Why women leave men they love – What every man needs to know’

    http://www.justiceschanfarber.com/marriage-why-women-leave-cheat/

  59. Boxer says:

    Earl:

    Well, their niceness was sincere in the respect that they were pleasant to the non-Jew who was banging their daughter. They had me over many times and I spent time with this chicks dad.

    My mother and stepfather made it clear they didn’t want to meet her, or any non-Mormon chick, and endlessly reminded me that if I dated outside the tribe I would likely marry outside it, which was unacceptable.

    Mormons can be very nice if they think you’re a potential convert or source of money. Many of us will flip out if you start dating our kids though.

  60. Regular Guy says:

    @ Matthew Chiglinsky

    Aren’t you being just a bit cynical and paranoid about this? I mean, what exactly is wrong with a woman writing a story that demonstrates how divorce can harm young children? A story like that sounds like a parable meant to teach a lesson, something that might actually discourage women from getting divorces in real life (as common sense suggests that harming children is a bad thing).

    You are taking the OP’s article at face value. This trope of women using the pain and suffering of divorce in order to financially and socially profit is older than the pay gap myth. Don’t be fooled into thinking this women’s motive is anything but self-centered.

    This garbage reminds me of that pretty, crying white woman, CandidMommy, who aired her dirty laundry from her divorce on YouTube and then used the search mechanics to get her video prioritized over other videos to the point where her channel would show up recommended in unrelated categories. It became quickly apparent when commenters were saying, “I feel so sorry for you, but how did this video wind up in my recommended list?” as it demonstrated how she intended to monetize her, recently blown-up, family’s suffering. All of this dirt was without the ex-husband telling his side of the story, of course. Disgusting.

  61. Just Saying says:

    @Brookes: So she divorced when her daughter was A TODDLER

    I love women like her – my bed is filled with young women whose Mothers destroyed their marriage and raised the little girl without a strong Father figure in the picture. Fast forward 10-15 years, and that little girl is looking for a replacement “father” who will give what she craved as a child – acceptance. If the cost is spreading her legs – she’ll tell herself that it’s love. Of course, I’m fine with that – women always delude themselves. The mothers do it when they blow up a marriage telling herself that this will solve her problems, and the daughters do it when they f**k men 20+ years older. Just accept it and enjoy… You aren’t going to stop it, or change it in any way – so you might as well enjoy it. If you don’t, someone like me will… Just never make the mistake of saddling yourself with a woman… Or you won’t be enjoying life…

  62. @Dalrock
    “Was this on PopSugar? From her CV it appears that getting divorced was what brought her up to Huffington Post and eventually the NYT mommyblog.”

    I think I saw it on her own blog – I follow her on wordpress…. She was, I believe, famous sort of before all this – she was on TV apparently. But you’re right, she’s really achieved MommyBlogger fame with writing about her marriage unraveling and the divorce (and other articles like how hard it is to find a good guy at her age, she’s a feminist but doesn’t want to date feminist men, advice to men on their online dating profiles (she thinks they sound or look awful) etc.).

  63. @IBB
    “As has been said already by Nova and Dalrock, that is not at all the lesson from the story. You need to re-read it. There is not a single drop of remorse on Laura’s part in regards to her divorce, none. All there is, is a story about a divorced mom who now has it so tough because she has to deal with a 4 year old who was NOT okay with this divorce. This is a story for women who fantasize about frivorcing their husbands and how to teach them how to cope with a young child who is NOT their ally in the frivorce.

    Little girls really get broken up about parents divorcing. I would go as far as to say that girls are harmed worse than boys when their parents divorce (the damage is exaserbated into her adulthood, harms her ability to bond with a young man far worse than it does a now adult son of divorced parents in his bonding with a young woman.) And girls miss their fathers terribly when they are not around mom’s house (especially when their daddy was a source of comfort, strength, and patient understanding, three qualities that are typically missing from mommies who think only of what is important to themselves.) This author apparently doesn’t get that or if she does, she doesn’t care. Her’s is not a story of regret that readers can learn from in how not to make her mistakes. Hers is a story of selfishness and pride and smug arrogance where she is teaching women to understand that little girls aren’t always going to see things mommy’s way and that is THEIR failings, not mommy’s.”

    SPOT on!!!

  64. Brookes says:

    @earl

    That Schanfarber article has a lot of truth to it, but I can’t help but wonder if the whole “my husband just isn’t present and engaged enough” is just a way for selfish women to rationalize leaving their good husbands. “I wish he were more present” seems like such a vague criticism. Also, an unfair one given the fact that female hypergamy is unrestrained and men HAVE to work all the time in order to maintain enough social status to keep their women. Women in marriage counseling seem to play that card a lot, and the counselors always take their side when they do. Marriage counselling really is feminized. You know what Nixon said about “those damn Psychiatrists…”

  65. greyghost says:

    Brookes you have it right those chicks were just board and what more valid an excuse than that for a man dedicated to doing for his family. I bet the same bitch voiced her concerns about the safety of her car ,the neighborhood etc. putting financial pressure to ensure those things were taken care of. That damn psychologist writing for a bunch of cunts as come to the conclusion after all of his marriage counseling (pussy worship) that toasted ice was needed and not provided for that good pussy and has cause the ending of many loving marriages. Fuck you counselor

  66. thedeti says:

    Brookes:

    That’s about right. Marriage counseling or couples counseling is usually about changing the man and getting him to work in or for the relationship. He has to work on himself or change something about himself. All relationship problems are laid at his feet. Then, the counselor and woman gang up on him, and set about getting him to do/not do/be/not be something that the woman wants or doesn’t want.

    Failing that, the joint sessions are about the woman gathering evidence and ammunition to use in the upcoming divorce proceedings. See the joint counseling sessions between actor Stephen Collins and his STBEXW Faye Grant, in which Grant goaded Collins into admitting a few instances of sexual misconduct with minor girls on occasions up to 30 years ago. Grant surreptitiously audio recorded the sessions and released them to the public, probably to get leverage over Collins in the divorce settlement; perhaps just to hurt him.

    Collins ruined his own career when the allegations came out, but there’s no hope of recovery now. The hell of it is that counseling sessions are mental health counseling and they are supposed to be confidential, and anyone wanting access to information about what is said in those sessions has a heavy burden to get disclosure. However, those prohibitions don’t apply to the recipients of the services, i.e., in this case, Grant.

    Lesson: Never, ever attend joint counseling with anyone, even with a wife. If a man must attend counseling, always, ALWAYS, attend alone.

  67. Spike says:

    Some women should be permanently left on the shelf, and Ms Lipshitz sits right up there. Many of the Huff Poo feminist writers such as Hanna Rosin – another ‘shelfer’ – are married. I call hypocrisy.

    Unfortunately, men raised on the Blue Pill ‘fall in love’ with them and think it a good idea to marry them. Tragedy for children ensues. Her daughter exercises better judgement than she does.

    I am particularly irked by her wanting “to be fed grapes by some Greek stud” . What has she done to deserve such treatment? Blown up her family and deprived her child of a dad. Did her husband beat her up, abandon her, have persistent adultery drug or alcohol problems? I hear not, so he hasn’t from what I can tell done anything deserving divorce.Perhaps him not having many material possessions does it, which is why the divorce was so quick. I call greed.

    So I think rather than be fed grapes, she should be given a bouquet of rusty barbed wire for Valentine’s Day, something more apt since it reflects the condition of her heart and soul.

  68. earl says:

    ‘Mormons can be very nice if they think you’re a potential convert or source of money.’

    I found the easiest way to drive out Mormon kids who came to my place was to try to convert them to Catholicism. Never saw them again.

  69. earl says:

    For the record…I think the ‘husband isn’t present’ angle is probably just another front for the woman’s own interior unhappiness. I do think a husband has to invest some time with his wife instead of never being there or not being present…but we can’t ever find true happiness entirely in our spouse. It has to come from God.

  70. Scott says:

    Marriage counselling really is feminized

    In the little bit of marriage counseling I have performed, I noticed the most frequent pattern:

    The man would generally list his needs as “I need to be respected. I need to be acknowledged for the values and courage I bring to this relationship.”

    Women, on the other hand would say “I want to be loved and known. I know his favorite food, favorite sex positions, favorite movies. He doesn’t know anything about me.”

    When the man would make his statement, because of my own years of blue pill indoctrination, I couldn’t visualize what he even meant by respect. Truly, the idea sounded like a punch line from a joke about 1950s sexual politics. I would try to get the wife to empathize and resonate with the husband. But the truth is, I thought being respected for being a man sounded silly.

    Then I would proceed to bring in the egalitarianism by doing exercises designed to help the husband “know” his wife.

    But here is the thing. The entire concept of therapy is built around feminine constructs. Equivocation. Talking about feelings without actually addressing who’s perspective makes the most sense. Ejecting “values” and “judgementalism” from the sessions.

    The men would generally engage with whatever insights they gained about themselves and their marriage and immediately begin to engage in solution focused activities.

    But it was never good enough, because they just didn’t “get it.” I would come accross as a guy who did “get it” and my modeling would be used by the wife against the husband.

    I was being paid to white knight.

  71. RICanuck says:

    One of the cruelest effects of ‘frivorce’ on women is the bitterness. The new life seldom turns out like they imagine, and the bitterness grows and grows.

    My mother left the home when I was 13. I came home from school, and most of the furniture was gone with my mother. My dad was on a business trip at the time. Dad was surprised when he called home and asked to speak with her. He was shaken up, surprised and later got angry.

    My mother took up with a series of loser men, including some with drug and alcohol issues. Dad worked through it and remarried a much younger woman. That was when my mother really, really got bitter. Her bitterness became truly poisonous.

    When my daughter died in childhood, I felt like a zombie, but I made the funeral arrangements. When I went to my mother’s to tell her where and when the Mass would be held her first question was, “Will your father be there? If so, I am not going!”. She did not attend my daughter’s funeral. It was hard enough to forgive her abandonment, but refusing to attend her grand-daughter’s funeral was much harder to forgive.

    She now is far gone in Alzheimer’s, and does not recognize me. She is much easier to get along with, and forgive.

    If a woman can develop a future time orientation, and could see that they could become so bitter and angry, that they would boycott a child’s funeral just to get back at her ex-husband, and then have her children grateful to Alzheimer’s, for the personality improvement, would they really go, “Eat, Pray, Love”?

  72. Alaistair says:

    Question to Everyone:

    How would you distinguish the current wave of narratives of divorce from older narratives of divorce?

    I’m thinking back to my classes in college. For example:

    1. Eat Pray Love.
    2. How Stella Got Her Groove Back
    3. Wild Oats Project

    How are they different from:

    1. Anna Karenina
    2. Emma Bovary
    3. Effi Briest

    Thoughts?

  73. that last article was written by a beta – happy that he has a chance now that she threw away her marriage… LOL!!

  74. greyghost says:

    If a woman can develop a future time orientation, and could see that they could become so bitter and angry, that they would boycott a child’s funeral just to get back at her ex-husband, and then have her children grateful to Alzheimer’s, for the personality improvement, would they really go, “Eat, Pray, Love”?

    YES

  75. imnobody00 says:

    @cynthia

    “It seems like he replaced his father as the most important man in her life, and he seems to have lost an important component of his childhood to it. She may have found meaning in him, but all that really means is that she emotionally and psychologically replaced an adult man with a six year old child. Very strange.”

    The story of my life. My father and my mother never got along. They are still married but, since I was a child, I have been the “husband” of my mother. This has wrecked my life.

    Even now, at my age of 45, my mother still demands a lot from me emotionally . I escaped 15 years ago and live in other continent. My mother has learned how to use whatsapp and leaves messages with her crying while she tells me how bad is her life (how bad is my dad and how bad is her health) and that I am the one she loves the most and she is heart-broken because I am gone (after 15 years) and so on and so forth (of course, it is always about her problems and how to suck all my emotional energy. I don’t remember her supporting me or talking about my problems once).

    My story and your boyfriend’s story is no that uncommon. You can learn more from this book, which helped me and I hope helps your boyfriend. Blessings.

    http://www.amazon.com/Silently-Seduced-Parents-Children-Partners/dp/0757315879

  76. A Regular Guy says:

    @ GwaDT

    The article title made me LOL. The rest was TL;DR.

  77. DeNihilist says:

    Earl, don’t know if Justice is just a white knight, or if his lecture is anti-thesis to all this game shite. Like dread, and respond to only 1 in 3, etc.

    I only know from my own experience with my wife, the best times, moments, are when we, as a couple, are still living passionately with each other.

  78. breaking news!

    just heard it today!

  79. MarcusD says:

    Question about need for annulment
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=951746

    Lonely SAHW…husband working long hours
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=951727

    Telling kids the Church allows divorce?
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=951847

  80. Cane Caldo says:

    @Girlwiththedragonflytattoo

    Little girls really get broken up about parents divorcing. I would go as far as to say that girls are harmed worse than boys when their parents divorce (the damage is exaserbated into her adulthood, harms her ability to bond with a young man far worse than it does a now adult son of divorced parents in his bonding with a young woman.)

    Do you realize you are doing the very thing Dalrock’s OP is criticizing? “Divorce bad for kids, Women hardest hit.” That would be the title of your comment if it were an article on one of the divorce and mommy porn blogs with which you seem to be well acquainted.

    Let me not forget to mention that it was a stupid thing to say.

    More importantly: Do you see how you present yourself? Your profile picture is a rotation of pouty-lipped selfies; this newest with just-so hair and just-enough cleavage so that we know you got decent tits, but leaving you with plausible deniability that you are just being candid. You chose a screenname based on a novel/movie which is only famous because illicit sex is swirled into its otherwise dreary and boring story. Why do you want to give us the impression you have a dragonfly tattoo? Together with the novel, it suggests a message of “dangerous sex, but, you know, prettier”.

    Taken altogether–the name, selfies, pop culture references, tattoos, divorce porn readership–you have crafted the appearance of a woman one mimosa away from tripping over your heels and falling on a strange man.

  81. Cane,

    Little girls really get broken up about parents divorcing. I would go as far as to say that girls are harmed worse than boys when their parents divorce (the damage is exacerbated into her adulthood, harms her ability to bond with a young man far worse than it does a now adult son of divorced parents in his bonding with a young woman.)

    I wrote this, not gwtdft, She was just agreeing with it (because it is true.) Daughter’s desperately need fathers in their lives when they are growing up, it is vitally important. So when mom frivorces daddy, she quite often victimizes her daughter.

  82. Heaviside says:

    Lifshitz is probably Jewish. Daily reminder that feminism is Jewish subversion of gentile society.

  83. Good breakdown of Gw/DFT’s online persona, Cane….but seems like you missed a few other good points with regards to your excerpt of her quote.

    “Little girls really get broken up about parents divorcing. I would go as far as to say that girls are harmed worse than boys when their parents divorce (the damage is exaserbated into her adulthood, harms her ability to bond with a young man far worse than it does a now adult son of divorced parents in his bonding with a young woman.”

    Girls are harmed worse than boys? Hardly. More like Girls and Boys are harmed by divorce, but the effects of that harm manifest differently.

    The false premise Gw/DFT has here is measuring the effects of divorce on children solely by their ability to bond witht he opposite sex when they are older.

    Divorce does far more than simply damage a person’s ability to bond.

  84. Red Pill Latecomer says:

    Women have it backwards. Female psychobabblers discourage disciplining children because that’s “abuse.” Yet they celebrate frivorce.

    Women refuse to understand that children would much rather be disciplined than have their parents divorce.

  85. IBB, you’re episodes of mangina white knightery interspersed with excellent red-pill commentary is quite a thing to behold. It’s like two different people use the same WordPress acccount or something….

    But if you want to talk about who Divorce hurts worst according to gender, well that plays right into your Christo-feminist personae – kinda like you’re genuflections to your wife’s hamster for being upset at anyone daring to eat ketchup in her vehicle.

    Fuck this hairsplitting by which gender gets hurt worse by divorce.

    Everyone gets fucked up and worrying about who gets it worse takes the emphasis off of what is most important.

    To paraphrase from a shoddy memory, some guy who was supposedly said some important things in a Great Book For Men “lozololzl” – that went like this:

    “Let no man tear apart what God has put together.”

    Divorce hurts Men, Women, children, and our society. Saying one got it worse than the other misses the importance of the real points Dalrock makes here on this blog.

  86. Opus says:

    In response to Alastair, the difference, as I see it between the older Divorce empowerment novels and the present crop is that in the present ones the Frivorcee does not die under the wheels of a train or of consumption – and her husband is not necessarily either much older or emotionally constipated (Karrenin, Soames Forsyte) or impotent (Chatterly, or to choose an American example Jake Barnes in Hemmingway) though obviously that helps. Operas like La Traviata (Violetta is so hypergamous) and La Boheme (Mimi is such a little slut) are so horribly blue-pill.

    To support TFH on the subject of Chefs I believe I am correct in saying that all the starred Michelin chefs (ever) – bar just one – are men. The British love Indians and the feeling is mutual: I only met one Indian in America, but we clasped each other – though complete strangers – to our bosoms as though we were long lost friends – and that was in Chicago. We love Curry; they live Cricket. I thus feel paternalistic towards TFH.

  87. Tam the Bam says:

    “How are they different from:
    1. Anna Karenina
    2. Emma Bovary
    3. Effi Briest

    Those three are minor gentry/haute bourgeois. The others are plebs.
    Aping the manners and mores of their long-gone social superiors, perhaps? Or has “trickledown” of the guaranteed comfort and complete idleness that was once only available to the 1% enabled similarly irresponsible, decadent indulgence and emotional incontinence?

  88. earl says:

    ‘The man would generally list his needs as “I need to be respected. I need to be acknowledged for the values and courage I bring to this relationship.”

    Women, on the other hand would say “I want to be loved and known. I know his favorite food, favorite sex positions, favorite movies. He doesn’t know anything about me.”’

    Sounds like a communication breakdown. They are actually getting what they want but in a different language from their own.

  89. Novaseeker says:

    Collins ruined his own career when the allegations came out, but there’s no hope of recovery now. The hell of it is that counseling sessions are mental health counseling and they are supposed to be confidential, and anyone wanting access to information about what is said in those sessions has a heavy burden to get disclosure. However, those prohibitions don’t apply to the recipients of the services, i.e., in this case, Grant.

    Lesson: Never, ever attend joint counseling with anyone, even with a wife. If a man must attend counseling, always, ALWAYS, attend alone.

    Yes, although in my personal experience with this, the counselor will make you sign a waiver regarding disclosures in the event of litigation. It isn’t really a privilege issue, but the counselors want to avoid being exposed to being sued if they are made to testify in divorce proceeding (which they can be, especially in joint sessions as you point out, but not only in them).

  90. earl says:

    ‘Lesson: Never, ever attend joint counseling with anyone, even with a wife. If a man must attend counseling, always, ALWAYS, attend alone.’

    Hence why I like confession over therapy. It’s between Jesus and you…with the priest being In Persona Christi. Plus your sins are forgiven…whereas a therapist doesn’t have that ability.

  91. myrealitie says:

    I looked up Laura’s FB page:
    https://www.facebook.com/lauralifshitzhernandez

    She has tons of pictures with her daughter, but she looks totally out of tune with her in every single one. She has a horrible plastic smile, and is always completely focused on posing as if her daughter is not even in the photo. I find that very telling, and very sad.

  92. BradA says:

    I agree that figuring out who is hurt the most is stupid. Divorce hurts everyone involved, especially children. Being impacted differently doesn’t make it worse or better, it still hurts.

    ====

    The challenge Earl is that just being forgiven won’t (in and of itself) help you change habits, behaviors, etc. Saying rote prayers (a common result of confession) won’t really help most overcome their flesh.

    ====

    My wife often feels I don’t understand her, but I find it is more an issue of not agreeing with her. She has admitted that she often doesn’t feel heard if I don’t do what she wants. That is a false choice hoisted on us by modern society, but it is what we face. The lack of respect is more real, or at least that is what I would argue. Many women love men (contrary to what is claimed here at times), but they do not really respect them. That is why the Scriptures tell women to respect their husbands – it is hard for them to do. The reverse would be that it is harder for men to love their wives. It would not be a command if it was already being done and was easy.

    A bit of variance from the thread though, but important points to keep in mind on the topic of marriage counseling.

  93. Anonymous Reader says:

    BradA
    Many women love men (contrary to what is claimed here at times), but they do not really respect them.

    A woman who does not respect her man does not really love him.

  94. greyghost says:

    She has a horrible plastic smile, and is always completely focused on posting as if her daughter is not even in the photo.

    You noticed that too huh?

  95. earl says:

    Although this posting from fb might give some insight.

    ‘I didn’t have many male role models as a kid, so when my sister brought home her friend, a tall lanky guy who could eat you out of the house, I was thrilled. He listened to my opinions, paid attention to me and made me feel special. He bought the comic books I made. He was the first male imprint in a lot of ways, and there haven’t been many like him since. He’s the brother I never had.’

  96. greyghost says:

    Women don’t love they don’t have the capacity to. Women gina tingle and say it is love. No reason to burn crosses in a woman’s yard or spray paint graffiti on her house, or slash the tires on her car just the way it is.
    I’ll take honor and respect from a woman any day over “love” when vetting for a wife. Too bad they don’t teach boys that in church

  97. earl says:

    ‘She has a horrible plastic smile, and is always completely focused on posting as if her daughter is not even in the photo.’

    Am I the only one who sees anxiety or worry in her eyes? Her smile might be plastic but the eyes don’t lie.

  98. earl says:

    I’m sure with the equality brainwashing men have a false expectation that women love the same as they do. A husband is commanded to love his wife, respect is the best you can expect back from a wife…because for her, love goes more to her children.

    ‘You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.’ 1 Peter 3:7

  99. Dalrock says:

    I think the woman who cries over cats video has been outed as a spoof. It became an internet meme:

  100. Scott says:

    I sort of saw that too. A friend posted it to my FB wall and I just couldn’t help myself.

  101. greyghost says:

    Earl
    Ever see that old series “Dallas’ she has the look of JR Ewing’s wife. She always had a drink with ice clinking in it and had this look like she was going to break down crying a real shaky unstable look. . This Lifeshit chick has that same look.

  102. Boxer says:

    Ever see that old series “Dallas’ she has the look of JR Ewing’s wife. She always had a drink with ice clinking in it and had this look like she was going to break down crying a real shaky unstable look. . This Lifeshit chick has that same look.

    LOL!

  103. DeNihilist says:

    Oh Scott, you just made my day. Terrific!

  104. That FB cheese crating smile and that cat video… wow, just wow!

  105. Am I the only one who sees anxiety or worry in her eyes? Her smile might be plastic but the eyes don’t lie.

    Don’t know about the eyes, but she has enough worry lines to keep a plastic surgeon busy till rapture!

  106. Lucien says:

    This is terrifying to me. I come from a culture where divorce is not considered normal. I have never seriously had to consider what divorce is like for the children. I stopped reading at, “actually, I’m sad because Daddy isn’t here anymore.” The fact that this is going on all over our society is horrifying. I can’t even imagine the unnecessary pain these kinds of actions have caused. Feminism has been an even bigger catastrophe for society than I thought before. Also these divorces are a massive transfer of costs from the present generation to future generations. Thank God at least the rate is declining.

  107. Scott says:

    D-

    The Songify version is way better.

  108. Dalrock says:

    I thought you might like that Scott. The songify version is hilarious.

  109. The guy who wrote the “12 reasons divorced women rock” article at HuffPo omitted his real reason.

    he is a country singer songwriter…..hell yes they rock, his entire genre withers and dies without them to gobble up the often banal foot kissing lyrics.

  110. JDG says:

    Also these divorces are a massive transfer of costs from the present generation to future generations. Thank God at least the rate is declining.

    As I understand it, the number of divorces has declined, but so has the number of marriages. I believe the divorce / marriage ratio remains at or near 50%.

  111. Cara says:

    I have a friend who just initiated a divorce. Her reason is that she wants to find a new man so she can model for her kids what a good marriage looks like. Just wrap your head around that for a moment. Obviously I feel sorry for her kids and soon to be ex, but also for whichever new guy she manages to bag. His predetermined role is a “do over.”

  112. greyghost says:

    Boxer
    That “Dallas ” clip was awesome. A man that talks like JR would be awash in pussy now days.

  113. greyghost says:

    Looks like somebody else saw the article on 12 reasons divorced women rock. MGTOW vidoes and video makers are huge hits on you tube. The video makers cross all races and the ones from black men are just as numerous.

  114. Scott says:

    he is a country singer songwriter…..hell yes they rock, his entire genre withers and dies without them to gobble up the often banal foot kissing lyrics.

    This is what I love about sites like this. They help me remember that I am not going crazy.

    I thought I was the only one who noticed that a huge portion of country music is devoted to singing the praises of divorced/single moms.

    I am not taking crazy pills.

  115. @greyghost – maybe, maybe not. I know a really really old Texan, sometimes comes to my church. He is funny as all get out. He was in the air force, married a brit. Hasn’t had a kind word or a touch of intimacy from his wife in decades. The first time we chatted with him I made the mistake of asking about his wife. He shed a tear. Obviously a broken man. A year later we know him much better and I realize he’s just as funny as JR Ewing. And speaks hilarious french (in a Texan accent) as well.

  116. thedeti says:

    Off topic:

    Sheila Wray Gregoire is at it again, with more suggestions that husbands submit to their wives in the area of sexual morality:

    http://tolovehonorandvacuum.com/2015/03/rebuilding-trust-after-a-porn-addiction/

    Sheila posts a letter from a reader who found porn on her husband’s cell phone, after getting permission from her husband to check for something else on the phone. The rest of the post is about building trust after his apology and her forgiveness. Not surprisingly, one of the suggested remedies is for him to submit to her, and for her to be his spiritual “accountability”. Here’s the wife talking about how she helps her husband toe the line:

    “I know the password to all of Craig’s electronic devices and have permission at any time to view anything on them. There is a password on our cable account that restricts adult entertainment access and MA-rated television shows and movies that only I have (which he asked me to put on). He has a regular group of friends he can count on to pray for him and from whom he seeks counsel. All of these things give me tangible ways to see that he is trying to keep himself safe from things that could easily ensnare him.”

    You see, he has to submit to her. He has to give her ultimate authority over his inner thought life. That’s the only way he can be trusted.

    Perhaps the wife might do better by asking why her husband feels the need to look at porn. Perhaps he might not have this issue if he felt appreciated and respected, and isn’t being treated like a sex crazed 15 year old boy who can’t be responsible for himself. Perhaps if he were treated as a husband and head of house, and not as an irresponsible boy, he might not do this. Perhaps if she would have regular sex with him, he might not use porn.

    Ladies: If your husbands are using porn, you might ask why that is. Perhaps part of the reason is YOU.

  117. Anonymous Reader says:

    thedeti
    Off topic:
    Sheila Wray Gregoire is at it again, with more suggestions that husbands submit to their wives in the area of sexual morality:

    Well, not entirely off topic, since the OP refers to divorce porn and visual porn use by men is a major tool for the Threatpoint nowadays.

    “I know the password to all of Craig’s electronic devices and have permission at any time to view anything on them.

    I’ve mentioned before the man I met in a coffee joint who had an application on his laptop that harvested / caught every URL he looked at, and at regular intervals automaticallly emailed them to his wife. No idea what the backstory was, but it was obvious his accountability was to his wife. No idea if there was a similar app on her device, but..I doubt it.

    Aside from men who have a concern about some possible extramarital affair, I wonder how many married men know the password to their wive’s electronic devices, or even care to. Trust is an interesting topic.

  118. thedeti says:

    AR:

    It’s all just another expression of the FI. What about what the man wants, needs, desires from his marriage?

    It never seems to occur to these Christian women WHY their husbands are resorting to porn. It could be, maybe, just maybe, that she is being miserly with love — no sex, or not the way he likes, or grudging duty sex only, or she gives his opinions no heed when determining her physical appearance. She doesn’t respect him. She acts outwardly as if she hates him.

  119. greyghost says:

    The best solution for these guys is to get some side pussy if needed or desired or just look at porn anyway. Or he could tell her if she doesn’t like his porn use. “get those panties off” is a good reply. Words like fuck you bitch are also good words to use in a Christian household every once and a while.

  120. feeriker says:

    Ladies: If your husbands are using porn, you might ask why that is. Perhaps part of the reason is YOU.

    In 99.999 percent of cases, ALL of the reason for a married man’s porn viewing is due to his wife’s sexual lockout, which itself is generally the onset of “I’ve now reached the saturation point of disgust with this man I’m no longer/never was sexually attracted to.”

    And no, of course no woman is EVER going to honestly ask herself your rhetorical question. The fact notwithstanding that women generally lack any capacity for introspection (to also say nothing of the fact that no such woman would care one wit about depriving her husband of intimacy in direct and knowing violation of her scripturally mandated wifely duties), to honestly ask the question would force an admission of moral agency and accountability. She’d choose eternity in hell first.

  121. JDG is correct. The divorce rate decline is nothing to cheer about; the marriage and fertility statistics are trending the wrong way.

  122. thedeti says:

    It’s funny to me too, that when Christian women talk about how to keep their husbands from viewing porn, there is the following:

    1. The solution has to involve wife supervising husband in some way.

    2. There is absolutely no examination of why this happened.

    3. There is no entertainment of the notion that the wife’s responses, conduct and attitude toward the husband might have contributed to his use of it.

    Let’s be blunt. He’s not looking at porn because it’s something to do, or to occupy time. He’s using it as an aid to masturbation. He’s using it to get turned on so he can have a sexual release. He is doing this because he NEEDS it. He’s doing this because he can’t get that need met any other way.

    Now, wives. Stop for a minute and think.

    WHY can’t he get that need met any other way?

    Is it because you routinely push him away? Is it because you turn him down when he approaches you for sex? Is it because you’ve made clear that you don’t want sex with him?

    Is it because you’re sleeping with someone else?

    Is it because you WANT to sleep with someone else? Is it because you’re an alpha widow, pining away for Harley McBadboy or F*ckbuddy Rockbanddrummer?

    Is it because you’ve let yourself go? Gained 100 pounds? Your wardrobe consists of t shirts and sweatpants? You don’t use makeup anymore? Chopped off your hair? DGAS about how you look?

    Could it be because you outwardly come across as though you hate him? You disrespect him in public? Disrespect him and question his authority in front of the kids? Run him down in front of your family of origin? Demand your way all the time? Never give any thought to perhaps what HE might want, need or desire from his marriage to you?

    Examine these, and you’ll be 90% of the way to answering the question “Why is he doing this? Why is he looking at porn?”
    _______________________________________
    This has been a public service announcement. Thank you for your attention.

  123. Escoffier says:

    IIRC, Lifshitz was Ralph Lauren’s original last name.

  124. feeriker,

    In 99.999 percent of cases, ALL of the reason for a married man’s porn viewing is due to his wife’s sexual lockout, which itself is generally the onset of “I’ve now reached the saturation point of disgust with this man I’m no longer/never was sexually attracted to.”

    When you marry ONLY for money (with every intension of divorcing your husband should the money dry up) and you hold s-x as a present to your husband if he behaves himself, you are a whore. Because you are a whore this saturation point is not a problem. Your husband is a mule to produce resources for you. You only care that he is viewing pron because the entire concept that you no longer have s-xual leverage over your mule is a non-starter for a whore. Time to dispose of this mule and find a new one.

    The fact notwithstanding that women generally lack any capacity for introspection (to also say nothing of the fact that no such woman would care one wit about depriving her husband of intimacy in direct and knowing violation of her scripturally mandated wifely duties), to honestly ask the question would force an admission of moral agency and accountability. She’d choose eternity in hell first.

    A woman who does deny her husband her wifely duties does not believe in God, heaven, or hell. She is churchianity, not Christian. I have confronted such women in Bible study on Eve and “The Fall” and submission to husbands. The overwhelming response to that (from the feminist imperative standpoint in parallel with churchianity) is that Genesis is fiction. No God that she would worship would even insist that she obey any man. Basically, churchianity rejects the KJB. It must. Christianity and the feminist imperative are mutually exclusive whereas churchianity and the feminist imperative are financial allies.

  125. thedeti,

    It’s funny to me too, that when Christian women talk about how to keep their husbands from viewing porn, there is the following:

    1. The solution has to involve wife supervising husband in some way.

    2. There is absolutely no examination of why this happened.

    3. There is no entertainment of the notion that the wife’s responses, conduct and attitude toward the husband might have contributed to his use of it.

    Let’s be blunt. He’s not looking at porn because it’s something to do, or to occupy time. He’s using it as an aid to masturbation. He’s using it to get turned on so he can have a sexual release. He is doing this because he NEEDS it. He’s doing this because he can’t get that need met any other way.

    Now, wives. Stop for a minute and think.

    WHY can’t he get that need met any other way?

    You just lost them. If you are talking to a room full of women who are trying to get their husbands to stop using pron, under no circumstances are they going to sit there and relect on anything. Bottom line, their thinking is simply…

    …he needs to change because I hate the pron…

    …or ELSE he needs to get out of MY HOUSE that he must continue to pay for!

    That is basically what it boils down to. To try and challenge them, they’ll just get up and walk out of the room. You just HATE women, that’s all.

  126. Scott says:

    D-

    I hope you don’t mind.

    I am wondering if there are other mental health clinicians who read here. If not regular posters, maybe lurkers. If you are out there, please contact me through one of my two websites.

    http://www.courtshippledge.com
    http://www.westernphilosophyeasternfaith.blogspot.com

    I have an idea.

    Carry on.

  127. feeriker says:

    . I have confronted such women in Bible study

    WHOA, hold it right there: Bible study??

    Surely you must mean “Churchian Oprah Bestselling Book of the Month Club selection (that deals obliquely with something that kinda sorta touches on Scripture, maybe, but only if it’s something non-contraversial).”

    Churchians DO NOT study The Bible itself – EVER, as the section of your OP from which my highlight is taken attests.

  128. thedeti says:

    The husband’s use of porn is sinful. That said, his wife’s supervising him and playing spiritual overseer is not going to help him address his sin. If anything, his wife’s misconduct is causing him to stumble and leading him INTO sin. The answer on her part is that she must stop doing whatever she’s doing that is causing him to stumble.

    The husband is sinning, but his wife’s standing over him with a figurative ruler ready to rap his knuckles if he stumbles and masturbates to porn is not the solution.

    A wife can’t really help a husband address his sin. Only other men can. But it can’t be done with the lame concept of “accountability partners”, who are really there to do the same thing the wife proposes to do: play the part of spiritual enforcer and overseer, ready to punish him if he stumbles. The answer is to help him see that what he’s doing is sin, and to help him stop doing it.

  129. MarcusD says:

    Grownups Pay Big Bucks to Attend NYC ‘Adult Preschool’
    http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/grownups-pay-big-bucks-attend-nyc-adult-preschool/story?id=29701836

    It seems that it’s mostly women in attendance.

  130. feeriker,

    WHOA, hold it right there: Bible study??

    Surely you must mean “Churchian Oprah Bestselling Book of the Month Club selection (that deals obliquely with something that kinda sorta touches on Scripture, maybe, but only if it’s something non-contraversial).”

    Churchians DO NOT study The Bible itself – EVER, as the section of your OP from which my highlight is taken attests.

    churchians DO study the Bible. they study it to identify the parts of the Bible that they believe to be… wrong. basically, in order to be in churchianity, the Bible itself MUST be wrong.

  131. Oh brother. Anyone who thinks fashion models cause anorexia has no idea what they’re talking about.

  132. earl says:

    ‘A man that talks like JR would be awash in pussy now days.’

    That type of talk will attract trollops…but will be a death knell in marriage.

  133. BradA says:

    Greyghost,

    Women don’t love they don’t have the capacity to.

    What would women do if they did love? What criteria are you judging for here?

  134. RICanuck says:

    “She’d choose eternity in hell first.”

    You have hit something that has been gelling in my heart and mind for quite time.

    In Dante’s inferno, while Dante was getting his guided tour of Hell, he met Paolo and Francesca. An adulterous couple from his native city. They were caught in the act by Francesca’s husband (Paolo’s brother) and murdered. Paolo knew his guilt and kept silent. Francesca would not shut up that it was not her fault. She read Dante’s poetry and was inflamed with lust. so it was really Dante’s fault not hers. She did not know why she was in Hell, because she was innocent. It was someone else’s fault.

    I really believe that women are not as culpable for sin as men are. I don’t believe that they come factory equipped with a conscience, and they are certainly not very introspective. They will be judged to a lower standard than men are. But, so many are so used to not being judged at all, that they will flee to Hell from judgement, even the good church ladies.

    This is a besetting sin of today’s North American Christian husbands. We must judge our wives and let them know when they do wrong. Expect a lot of screaming and histrionics. We are supposed to love our wives as Christ loves the church. Jesus will not pull a screaming fit on the throne of judgement. He will not be wrathful and cast us into Hell. Hell is a choice for those who know during judgement that that have willfully chosen to turn their backs on Goodness. When judging a wife on her sin, be calm and state it clearly. If she shows contrition let her know you love her. If she does not show contrition, forgive anyways, but let her bear the consequences.

    If a wife who has never been judged by her husband, flees to Hell at the moment of judgement, the husband bears part of the sin.

  135. greyghost says:

    What would women do if they did love? What criteria are you judging for here?

    They would see what is happening to this civilization and do something about it like we hated men are. God doesn’t tell them to. I hope that answers the question.

  136. @IBB
    The overwhelming response to that (from the feminist imperative standpoint in parallel with churchianity) is that Genesis is fiction.

    Ask them is any of the other books of the Bible are fiction. What about the gospel of Matthew? Is that one fiction? If it isn’t, why did Jesus quote from Genesis 2:24 in Matthew 19? Because if Jesus used Genesis as an authority, it can’t be fiction…

  137. greyghost says:

    If a wife who has never been judged by her husband, flees to Hell at the moment of jugement, the husband bears part of the sin.

    Of course he does.

  138. BradA says:

    Is that all greyghost? Are most men incapable of love too, since they are doing nothing by the same standard?

  139. Beeker says:

    “In 99.999 percent of cases, ALL of the reason for a married man’s porn viewing is due to his wife’s sexual lockout, which itself is generally the onset of “I’ve now reached the saturation point of disgust with this man I’m no longer/never was sexually attracted to.”

    Most men do not understand that a woman will indeed marry a man she is not physically/sexually attracted to if his status, job, income is high enough.

  140. greyghost says:

    Yes BradA some men are not capable of love. That is why we have firearms. If you want to believe women are naturally pure and good and that fits in with your righteousness I’m not going to change your mind. These topics showing women as who they are must be killing you. I wouldn’t feel too bad NAWALT

  141. The Other Jim says:

    I have seen the enemy, and the enemy are Trad-Cons;

    https://ricochet.com/single-mothers-and-conservatism/#comments

    To be fair, a fair number of commenters see the American socio-sexual dystopia at hand but a large number don’t. The following comment was among the more recent trying to justify turning losers into winners;

    “People! Enough with the cranky sex talk—this is exactly the problem the OP is talking about: say the words “single mother” and immediately conservatives start accusing women of not keeping their legs together at the appropriate moment, and criticizing child support and bemoaning the End of Virginity As We Knew It…these are not going to win over the single mothers in question (or any other Undecideds either).

    Don’t forget there’s the big, fat target we paint on ourselves whenever we make a lot of what sound like moralizing generalizations about other people’s sex lives. (Two words suffice in Liberal-ville: Bristol Palin).

    I’m not getting nearly enough answers to the question posed in the OP. What should the GOP candidate actually say that would convince a single mother that voting for a Republican instead of a Democrat was in her best interests (assuming that everyone here believes that it would be)?”

    And Republicans wonder why young men don’t vote for them…*FYI, it’s a pay site so you can’t comment if you aren’t a paying member.

  142. lgrobins says:

    “I know the password to all of Craig’s electronic devices and have permission at any time to view anything on them. There is a password on our cable account that restricts adult entertainment access and MA-rated television shows and movies that only I have (which he asked me to put on)”

    Good gawd! Truly astounding. He is a child and she is the mom. That is all there is to it. “Only I have”. She seems mighty proud to have access to such crap while he doesn’t. 50 shades for me, but not for thee! And how about just getting rid of the cable account. Did he really ask her to put the password on? Seem unbelievable, but if he is that pussy-whipped, then yeah. He is probably paying for that cable account, but she controls his viewing.

  143. greyghost says:

    Most men do not understand that a woman will indeed marry a man she is not physically/sexually attracted to if his status, job, income is high enough.

    There is nothing wrong with that. That is why it is about honor and respect from a woman. Without the incentives that guy gets real sexy. That is why “game” works. A man that could get sex learns of the red pill and the nature of women same man gets sex from women. A responsible civilized society has laws and culture that are red pill with game. That is the whole point of being civilized.

  144. Cane Caldo … Aside from your inability to read (as IBB pointed out, that was not my own quote), its actually ironic what you’ve managed to do. While trying to (I presume) slut shame me for having a pretty gravatar, you’ve essentially sent hundreds of people to my site. My husband was off last night, so I didn’t read your comment until late this morning… and we’ve been spending time together all day🙂 And I’ve watched with sardonic humor how your one comment trying to shame me for having “just so hair” and “cleavage” has done more than likely what you’d rather it had not: sent 157 visitors to my site who have viewed 440 times on a day when I was enjoying my husband & family & consequently didn’t post anything.

    In any case, my site is not at all about the things you drew up in your own mind – you will not find selfies everywhere, or “pouty lips” lol… I’m glad you pointed so many in my direction, they will only see how wrong you are – that I actually write little pieces on topics (albeit nothing profound definitely) but that my site is not at all what you painted it to be. And you are incorrect, my gravatar has changed about 4 or 5 times, but it’s actually mostly been me cuddling with my newborn son & SMILING – only the last two have been of me alone trying to regain who I looked like before pregnancy. Its funny though that it bothers you – I’ve seen this a lot with religious men who have wives who are prudes in bed… they can’t stand seeing someone even remotely pretty or even showing the very least amount of “cleavage” because it sends them into a state of drastic turmoil as they find themselves SO TEMPTED that they direct their anger towards the woman for being beautiful/slim/good body/pretty hair.

    Just think… if you think that my pic has actual cleavage in it, I’d hate to imagine what your wife shows you in the bedroom (eskimo maybe?) ….😉 Clearly, you don’t know what real cleavage is poor man.

  145. lgrobins says:

    Dragon Fly,

    I think one point Cane was getting at is why do you and other women feel the need to post your photo at all?

  146. Dave says:

    But a number of guys on this site posted their pictures? Scott, Ear, Brad, Boxer, Rollo, to name a few. What is wrong about posting one’s picture online?

  147. greyghost says:

    Them titties are out there. As soon as I get my stomach together I’m posting up a picture of my abs

  148. greyghost says:

    Dave
    There is nothing wrong with it. I never really noticed until it was mentioned. Women do that kind of thing. I think the comment had more to do with it than the actual photo on it’s own.

  149. Beeker says:

    “Most men do not understand that a woman will indeed marry a man she is not physically/sexually attracted to if his status, job, income is high enough.

    There is nothing wrong with that. That is why it is about honor and respect from a woman. Without the incentives that guy gets real sexy. ”

    @greyghost:

    Actually I was implying that the guy was not sexy at all to the woman – game or no game, I mean absolutely zero, zip, nada on the hot, sweaty, primal, buck-wild, monkey sex meter, the needle is dead-on zero. I know that women and men view sex appeal somewhat differently in each other, but I would think that there not being any chemistry of the woman with the man would eventually cause problems later on, namely a stressful, sex-only-once-a-month or completely sexless type marriage or divorce. With me being a man, maybe I’m projecting and putting too much emphasis on the physical aspect of a relationship. I’ve actually had female friends tell me that looks don’t matter in a man for them, but he had a good career, status, etc., but I thought these women were unusual and outliers. I myself would not want to be in such a relationship if I knew that the woman thought like this.

    If your saying that this is ok, and women are fine with that – and the relationship can do just fine and is normal, then maybe I just need to get out more. But clearly not having sex in a relationship is going to be a problem for most men. Why women shut down in a marriage with sex is strange, disrespectful, and just cruel in my view, it is the ultimate form of personal rejection for a man. These types of marriages seem more common than one would think.

    Are there any women reading this blog that can chime in here?

  150. greyghost says:

    Beeker
    The woman is a wife and she should sex her husband simply because she is his wife that is reason enough to sex the man. All of the rest is just bullshit women come up with as an excuse. The reason she loses interest is she has no reason to not lose interest. I tell you a personal story about my wife. She goes through her sex less periods which is fine with me. But just to mess with her I wrestled her down and massaged her head and asked her if I still had it. If I went out did she think I could still pull ass out of a club. Guess who decided that would be a good night to fuck her husband. A woman’s sexual desire is not what many think it is. Women shut down sex in marriage because they can and it is normal for them to. Physical desirability is only a small part of it.

  151. JDG says:

    I have seen the enemy, and the enemy are Trad-Cons

    Then you have only seen some of your enemies. Do you actually believe that feminists on the left are not working toward the same goal as your Trad Cons?

  152. JDG says:

    @girlwithadragonflytattoo

    I wouldn’t let my wife show that much cleavage in public. Same would go for daughter’s if I had any.

  153. @Dave “But a number of guys on this site posted their pictures? Scott, Ear, Brad, Boxer, Rollo, to name a few. What is wrong about posting one’s picture online?”

    Its wrong (to those two) because its a pretty woman doing it. They would be FINE with a woman who was not pretty doing it, because it wouldn’t evoke the same feelings of deep deep insecurity in lgrobins (if you read her posts she is obsessed with women who blog about their lives, show pictures of their children or husbands, and especially themselves), and simple temptation in CaneC. It’s a common phenomenon called “Hating the Beautiful.” Artists used to be criticized when they would make paintings of women too pretty or “perfect,” they were instructed to make them flawed so that the painting was more widely admired and accepted. ….. long history kind of boring though.

  154. Agreed. The list of enemies men have are quite large. I go with the “Trust Nobody” motto when it comes to governments, corporations, media, and politicians; none of them have your best interest in mind.

  155. JDG says:

    Now every time I see GWDFT’s pic, my eyes zoom right to her boobies!!! The apostle Paul was right.

  156. A Regular Guy says:

    @ RICannuck

    “I really believe that women are not as culpable for sin as men are. I don’t believe that they come factory equipped with a conscience, and they are certainly not very introspective. They will be judged to a lower standard than men are. But, so many are so used to not being judged at all, that they will flee to Hell from judgement, even the good church ladies.”

    I think you are on to something here. I’m not sure if it’s entirely true, but there is a ring of truth to it. Your comment made me realize that my frustration with women in general stems from my expectations of holding women to the moral standards of men and also helped me rethink my response to this. Perhaps grace is a more appropriate response since I’m still dealing with the fact that in many ways, women are not the peers of men. I will have to pray on this because I find too often that I am angry about this subject.

  157. lgrobins says:

    No, pretty or ugly, any woman showing herself in a suggestive way is looking for attention. Being married, there is especially no beneficial use to doing it and especially when on male dominated forums. Facebook and twitter, more expected. Dragonfly and I have been cordial before, but say the slightest thing critical and it all comes out. Such a pattern I always notice with women. “Obsessed”? Real original. I’ve blogged on this phenomenon. https://unmaskingfeminism.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/obsessed/
    Dragonfly’s next move will be to cue the “your just jealous cause I am so beautiful” line.
    She is crying “don’t hate me cause I am beautiful”. I don’t think Cane even said she was beautiful, so she is putting herself on a pedestal there and assuming a lot. He was saying more its the suggestive look.
    So, Cane has a prude wife with temptation issues and I am insecure (oh wait deeply, deeply insecure), all because we inquire why the need to post your photo (or really just I inquired that, simply). Is it secure or insecure women who feel the inclination to post photos? Same for men.

    I will ask the same question to men to be fair–why do the men on this blog feel the need to post their photo? What does it add to anything? It wreaks of vanity on both sides.

    “Artists used to be criticized when they would make paintings of women too pretty or “perfect,” they were instructed to make them flawed so that the painting was more widely admired and accepted. ….. long history kind of boring though.”

    Perhaps they should be criticized, just like porn makers get criticized for using only beautiful, flawless women. Flawed is reality, and flawed is beautiful.

  158. feeriker says:

    The answer is to help him see that what he’s doing is sin, and to help him stop doing it.

    Churchian wives are all over part one of that sentence. The second part, they won’t even touch, as it demands responsibility and obligations. Specifically, that means LIVING UP TO THEIR OBLIGATIONS AS WIVES TO PROVIDE PHYSICAL INTIMACY ON A REGULAR BASIS (regular physical intimacy = removing hubby’s temptation [often overwhelming after prolonged denial] to sin).

    I wonder if frigid churchian harridans realize that the Lord will have something not very pleasant to say to them about their neglect of their primary wifely duties (followed by some very unpleasant eternal consequences) on Judgment Day. Their sinful husbands ain’t gonna be the only ones in for the granddaddy of all nasty surprises.

  159. Striver says:

    On the whole women respect husbands, husbands love wives issue:

    That is to be expected in a patriarchal system. I see all of these posts how the father/husband should be the final authority, the wife should not challenge the husband, etc. For the times the Bible was written, the wife may have had little choice in who she married in the first place.

    Love should flow downward more than upward. Wives could legitimately disagree with a husband’s decision, and be right in fact, but under patriarchy be commanded to follow the husband’s lead. Given the wive’s limited control of her fate, respecting the chain of command is more important than loving the husband and his decisions. Going the other way, since the husbands had far more control of their fates, they should love those under their control because it’s their free choice as to how the life of the family plays out.

    The same with children. Parents make the choice to bring the children into the world, it should be a no-brainer that they love them. Children are commanded to honor their parents. But the children have no choice but to be born, and no choice in the family structure or decisions. So love is less expected.

    Now an equalist framework has been promised. In this framework men seem to expect more love from their wives than patriarchy. Other male-only institutions outside the family have been stripped away, and a man no longer has the outside support system he once did. So he should expect more from his wife, including love. Many have argued that wives on average are less capable or not capable at all of loving men. There is a point there, although it’s more likely that women love serially more than men do and are subject to losing that love, when relationships are based on love and love only.

  160. JDG says:

    although it’s more likely that women love serially more than men do and are subject to losing that love, when relationships are based on love and love only.

    love

  161. MarcusD says:

    What should be a woman’s role in society?
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=952037

    “Give Me a Child Or I Shall Die.” A Catholic Woman Tells of Her Children.
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=952028

    Lena Dunham Is Having To Defend Her Workouts As “Not Anti-Feminist”
    http://www.thefrisky.com/2015-03-18/lena-dunham-is-having-to-defend-her-workouts-as-not-anti-feminist/

  162. Spike says:

    Just read Ms Lifshitz’s article about her ex-husband. From the article, we find:
    -He’s a good father
    -He’s responsible
    -He’s reliable (even helping his ex wife)
    -He’s normal, not wacko.
    -His sexual tastes are conservative
    – He goes to bed at a decent hour.

    So, the questions need to be asked:

    What (TF) is so wrong with him that you, Ms Lifshitz, needed to divorce him?

    What (TF) is wrong with YOU, madam?

  163. earl says:

    ‘Prove to me that women believe in God (not ‘God’ as defined by whatever their feelings dictate at that particular second).’

    http://www.catholic.org/saints/female.php

  164. earl says:

    As far as preaching modesty to married women…I learned my lesson one time on that.

    I would say men should in general promote modesty to women…but when it comes to specific women this was the response I got:

    ‘My husband said it was ok.’

    Well I can’t refute that…she isn’t my wife.

    Which when it comes to authority it is his responsibility when it comes to his wife and daughters.

  165. 1254@cox.net says:

    Not often directly stated:
    A wife who longterm deadbeds her husband may not be quickly or even ever result in her husband (by definition with cause) filing for divorce on her. This may be due to her utility with the children/the chlldren love her and would miss her/him not wanting divorce court rape/etc. Nonethess, such a faithless wife can expect to NOT be missed much when she dies, and to have sorely tempted any normal man to not get in the way of her passing. The latter includes everything from not pushing her to see a doc when she displays possible early warning signs of cancer, encouraging/helping her to eat more wisely/watch her weight, or even not having a hospital turn off her life support when in a coma that might well reverse. Make people not miss you if you go, and they won’t, much…

  166. “Dragonfly’s next move will be to cue the “your just jealous cause I am so beautiful” line.
    She is crying “don’t hate me cause I am beautiful”. I don’t think Cane even said she was beautiful, so she is putting herself on a pedestal there and assuming a lot. He was saying more its the suggestive look.”

    Nope. Its sadly much bigger than that. Next move is to point out that her comment on Donalgraeme’s post Attraction (post 5). It was/is completely obsessed with the way women do blogs showing pictures of their kids, husband, and life in general. It is not simple envy of someone who may be prettier, and therefore would have the motivation and confidence to want to post a picture, but envy of a beautiful life shown in pictures in general. It’s very sad, its a Scarcity Mentality that she can’t stand to see other women blogging about having a beautiful life (and the way to show beauty is through the senses… one of the main ones being Visual), because it offends her. Beauty, because it’s visual, offends her.

    Abundance Mentality is healthy here, it sees other people blogging and using pictures and enjoys seeing the beauty of their life – and consequently, it evokes a feeling of happiness seeing that person’s happiness, in healthy minded people. When someone with a Scarcity Mentality sees that kind of beautiful, happy, positive blog, they feel negative emotions – in a much bigger picture, it goes directly against what the Bible says we should do in feeling happy when others are rejoicing and weeping when they weep. Feeling those negative emotions when seeing a beautiful life in pictures says something is very wrong with that person’s psyche and (more deeply) their soul and spirit isn’t right (with God even).

    And you’re right, Cane has different issues clearly, it is not a slutty picture, but in his mind (because of sexual needs more than likely not being met – or his wife doesn’t fix herself up the way he’d like her to, it could be anything really) he was more about the feeling of disgust it evoked for him because of feeling tempted, extremely guilty (because he’s religious), and then anger that was enough to embarrass himself and attack a stranger online in circumstances where it doesn’t matter in everyday life.

  167. BradA says:

    Greyghost,

    Yes BradA some men are not capable of love. That is why we have firearms. If you want to believe women are naturally pure and good and that fits in with your righteousness I’m not going to change your mind. These topics showing women as who they are must be killing you. I wouldn’t feel too bad NAWALT

    I just asked questions. You are the one building a strawman.

    How does owning a firearm mean someone is “doing something”?

    You still have not noted how men are “doing something” more than women. Though that is why I asked the question, to know what you were holding as the standard to judge love by.

    If I read what you say correctly:

    – Women show love by fighting against the modern system.

    – Men show love by owning a firearm.

    Could you clarify these, if it is not what you mean?

  168. @lgrobins “Dragonfly and I have been cordial before, but say the slightest thing critical and it all comes out.”

    Not trying to attack you personally, really, just the behavior of being offended at seeing a life that’s beautiful played out in pictures (as per the comment on Donalgraeme’s post). Its sad that if Cane had maybe emailed me to tell me the same, it would have been received differently. How you speak “truth” to people matters in how they will receive it – if you’re coming form a place of love and genuine concern, you do it differently. His comment was most definitely not coming from that place, it was more coming from an offense that he felt because of the feelings it evoked in him.

  169. Lovekraft says:

    Children of divorce need one of two things (or both) in order to get over divorce:

    CONFESSION or COMPENSATION

    The first deals with the children being told that frivorce was the parents’ choice and that it negatively impacted their lives. No more skirting around the issue, denial etc.

    Compensation deals with the fact divorce left serious emotional scars, among other damage. This damage should not be passed off.

  170. Scott says:

    It wreaks of vanity on both sides.

    It appears you have already made your mind. You got me.

    It’s because I an hawt hawt hawt and I know it!!

    Plus, I am trying to pick up chicks on a website my wife also reads.

    You’ll have to excuse me, I have to go wash my hair.

    Later, I’m meeting some buddies at the nail salon to giggle and gossip about the horrid polo shirt Jim wore to church last Sunday.

  171. Hank Flanders says:

    Cane Caldo

    Why do you want to give us the impression you have a dragonfly tattoo?

    While I don’t like or approve of real tattoos, I actually find her name pretty clever.

  172. Anchorman says:

    No, pretty or ugly, any woman showing herself in a suggestive way is looking for attention. Being married, there is especially no beneficial use to doing it and especially when on male dominated forums.

    Ding. Ding.

  173. PokeSalad says:

    ““I know the password to all of Craig’s electronic devices and have permission at any time to view anything on them.”

    Ok, I laughed. Hard.

  174. PokeSalad says:

    “They will be judged to a lower standard than men are. ”

    Judged to a lower standard by whom? The Lord? Medontthinkso.

  175. I for one am looking forward to the next avatar change and would hope it entails more cleavage and maybe sucking on a finger or perhaps a lollypop in a so-so suggestive way!

  176. Okay so this is interesting. My very first internet Troll.
    I am the Laura Lifshitz you write about.
    How amusing that someone has nothing better to do than slam me! That’s pretty sad but I won’t wish you ill will. Everyone has demons. I don’t know yours, but I will answer some of the ridiculousness on here and then will promptly exit as I have no time as a working parent to bother with this.
    #1-Lifshitz is a Jewish name for those of you who think it’s made up. Wow, rather ignorant of you.

    #2- Divorce is not big business to me. I went through marriage counseling 3 times and am now seeing my daughter in play therapy. My ex and I get along well. So well we figured out our own custody schedule and matters with very little legal help.
    #3- I went to college for writing. An established institution– Columbia University. I am not be Shakespeare or the other author you mentioned, but I love writing, I write constantly, and try to the best of my ability.
    #4 To the GIRLWITHADRAGONTATTOO, I am so glad you knew I would get a divorce! Could you have told me ahead of time? Oh that would have been nice. I am glad you are psychic. Please come on my limited payroll so you can answer all of my other life’s problems. Thanks!
    #5 Women destroying our families and acting as if this doesn’t matter:
    Oh my dear, dear Dalrock, it DOES matter! Divorce sucks. Would you like to ask my ex to come back? Or would you like to fix us? It has consequences and I am aware and I did not destroy my family. Perhaps my ex and I fucked it up together but thankfully, he and I are good people who want the best for all three of us. I would help him in a heartbeat and when I was sick this December guess who helped me? Yes, him.
    #6 Yup. I make money off writing about divorce, parenthood, sex, marriage, and more.
    If that makes me a jerk, well please, I’m waiting for my capital J.

    P.S. Do not expect me to respond to any comments. I won’t. I am sorry if this angers you but I can’t be bothered.
    I hope you have a great time bullying people over the internet and that your ego is filled with pure joy and love.
    I wish you the best and thank you for helping my article pop up in Google search.
    With love,

    Laura Lifshitz

  177. And for those of you wondering with such curiosity how to pronounce my name it’s:
    Lif (short i sound) SHIT (like the curse word) z- like zebra.
    Not too hard.
    And like I said before, I am Jewish. Technically, a non-practicing Jew and a liberal.
    Feel free to dislike me at your own leisure.
    Wow I cannot believe I scored this whole post!!!
    AWESOME!🙂

  178. Oh and lastly, I know full well that this will impact my daughter for a lifetime, but you know…us terrible JEWISH FEMINISTS! We are just so evil that we don’t give a shit, now do we?
    This is so comedic! Thank you for making my afternoon. Please say a prayer for me

  179. Krystal C. says:

    I don’t know what’s worse reading your negative comments about a writer who is writing something based on her experience with her ex husband and daughter or you adults who are still whining because your parents got divorced and according to you it doesn’t get any better. Get over yourself. Your a damn adult move on. As a child you don’t have a choice of the coping skills that adults have. Put on your big girl pants and decide that you want better then what your parents had. And last but not least her name is pronounced Lift Shits yes it’s her real name and she’s Jewish who gives a shit!

  180. Sabrina says:

    What a lovely group of hypocrites you are attacking someone you don’t know for being honest about her life. Divorce happens, it is not easy for most people, especially those with children. Yes, it will always effect the kids, but they will deal with this as it comes up in their life. To then attack her name, her religion, her appearance; you are showing that you are small minded scared people who can’t accept a woman who has taken control of her life and moved forward. Seriously, find something productive to discuss.

  181. Have you nothing better to do with your life than troll feminist blogs and put down people who are just doing what they enjoy? You’re just jealous that she got published in the New York Times and you didn’t. And by the way, how dare you criticize a mother who worries about her child? Don’t even pretend to think that you know what that kind of bond is like.

  182. modern woman says:

    It frightens me that I may one day raise children in a world that gives a microphone to presumptive, judgemental, whiners like you and most of the comment trolls on this story. You would find me and my life acceptable, but I would find your acceptance unnerving. I will say an extra prayer tonight thanking God for surrounding me with people of character and acceptance. Both of which, most folks here are in extremely short supply. Sitting in church every Sunday does not mean that you automatically get a free pass to have an ugly heart. I think most of you should be more worried about your own impending judgment and stop worrying about someone that you don’t even know. Grow up babies, and stop blaming your problems on your supposed tragic lives. Waaaaaah I’m the product of a broken home, mommy didn’t love me, that’s why my crappy life sucks. Ha. I come from a broken home, and my life is awesome! Thanks mom!

  183. I really believe that women are not as culpable for sin as men are. I don’t believe that they come factory equipped with a conscience, and they are certainly not very introspective. They will be judged to a lower standard than men are.

    Not so much. Ive accumulated enough of your comments over time and had brief exchanges with you to have some idea where you are coming from, and I truly sympathize. (I cannot empathize lest I be a hypocrite).

    What you are saying here has an analog in men. You could assert men will be judged less harshly or at a lower standard regarding sexual sin because if the designed in drive we have. It isn’t what they are not equipped with (you say a conscience), it is what they ARE equipped with. It isn’t as simple to label as a term like “sex drive”. It is something about emotional primacy and a wiring that affords infinite rationalization capacity by meandering the description of a given sin through the best meadows of flowers so that the meadows and flowers cause the badness to fade to the background and the memory of the sin becomes the meadows and flowers of it, not the dung their shoes were splashing through just under their feet.

    They DO have the ability to fight against this and to turn from it. Like the sex drive “it” is still there…. but under submission to Christ. There are no indulgences allocated per gender.

  184. Don Quixote says:

    Feminism in nature:

  185. cptnemo2013 says:

    Reblogged this on MGTOW 2.0.

  186. Such a mob of misguided venom. I find it difficult to read such ignorant self-righteous attacks without injecting some truth and perspective.

    1) Laura never wanted a divorce. She wanted to make her marriage survive no matter what the effort required. But now she is living with the consequence of having married someone who was not willing to make the same effort.

    2) Laura is not profiting from her divorce. She supports herself. She is a hard working, creative, witty soul who wishes nothing more than to find the light at the far end of this dark tunnel she has found herself in. She has no delusions that somehow divorce is an inconvenient event that will ultimately be inconsequential, and her daughter will simply get past it. No, she is looking for hope in the future as she deals with the pains she fought to prevent from slamming down on herself and her daughter.

    3) Laura writes from her heart. She bares her soul so graphically that I cannot bring myself to read everything that she writes. She reflects upon pain and anguish to control the demons of her past. That is how she copes and how she survives. And it opens her up to critical judgement from those who don’t know or understand the rest of the story.

    I know these words won’t have any impact on they typical troll. These words are aimed at the rational followers of this blog who will appreciate hearing about the woman behind the writing and might find it useful in understanding that she is not the vapid stereotype the author suggests. As for the trolls? Do your thing. Enjoy life, comfortable in the bravery of being out of range.

  187. Pingback: Laura Lifshitz hits the bigtime | Truth and con...

  188. Sue Eastburn says:

    @feministhater..”learn to live with it”?. So you mean to say every woman in a bad or unhappy marriage which cannot be remedied by counseling or calm adult communication should just stay in it, and subject her child(ren) to observing the paents in an unhealthy relationship? I disagree; I tried for years to “fix” my said same marriage. I chose to divorce so my sons would not grow up seeing their father verbally and mentally abuse their mother, for that’s how this is perpetuated. There will forever be differing opinions on this subject, however listening to both sides and not spewing out chauvinistic remarks is the best way to handle it. Do you beat your wife or talk down to her and expect her to ” live with it?” If so, I feel sad for her and your unfortunate children.

  189. Kristeana says:

    ” Who is Laura Lifshitz?”
    I believe that a perfect writer comes from life experienes that govern their perspective of the world around them. Laura has led an very interesting life and overcome many obstacles in her way. She has been writing and entertaining people for years.

    Laura’s life experiences transform her into something unique and timeless. The birth of her daughter has changed her life and given her strengths beyond you can imagine.

    So she recently was divorced and decided to write about it. Isn’t this a free country, Freedom of speech ? What do we live in the 1970’s Why do you care so much anyway? How has her words/life experiences effected you? I will tell you why. Look into yourself and start believeing in yourself and stop looking at other people and judging them for something you have no confidence to do. Be happy for people that have the opportunity to shine and good will come to you.

    I have known Laura for many years and I don’t know what happened to her and her ex husband. I know they loved each other and I know she loves her daughter. Laura is an artist, she has been that way as a little girl. No matter what Laura has done she has always been passionate about life and her experiences. Laura loves to bring those experiences to everyone she meets threw writing, acting or words.

    I would look at certain individuals throughout life and think” why them? I’m way better then them!” The fact was I wasn’t, I’m no better then anyone else. I started to be happy for people and my life changed. Laura’s a good person and so what if she is Jewish. At the end of the day she is human like you and I .

  190. Mark says:

    @Boxer

    “”I’ve been struggling with whether to post this, as I’m sure it’s evidence of my latent antisemitism, but whatever. I’ve dated a lot of Jewish chicks in my time, and feel lucky that I never married any of them. Shebrews are the absolute worst for raping men over the coals in divorce.”‘

    You are not an anti-semite…….you just have a brain! I have said this is many of my posts on several threads.”Avoid Jewish wimminz like the plague”……L*.I have a sister that you describe perfectly.The younger sister has largely “gotten it”.She has a great marriage,great kids,great hubby….that did not come from listening to her older sister.

    “”So maybe Mark from T-dot can back me up here. What makes those cute, sweet, feminine Jewish chicks turn so bad, so quickly, once you slap a ring on them?””

    The only thing that I could tell you is.Jewish women are VERY controlling…and VERY manipulative.Trust me I know! You have to stand up to them.I remember growing up and seeing the way that my mother tried to manipulate my father.Thank God it never worked.Short story for you.About 20 years ago,my mother got a family inheritance.Nothing much,8 million dollars.She rubbed into my father’s face like I have never seen.”I have my own money,IT IS MINE….AND YOU ARE NOT GOING TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!””””……My father said..”I will not…enjoy your money”…..This was a joke.My father at the time was worth “100 times” her minuscule inheritance.What did she do with the money?….NOTHING! She put it in the bank….earned nothing for interest and continued to piss off my father by trying to rub it his face.The joke of it???……..If she really wanted to “expand” that principle sum,her husband is “THE MAN” to talk to.All she had to do is turn the money over to him…he would have given it to the family’s “money managers”…and they would have doubled and tripled it for her.But,instead she put it a bank(only a fool keeps his money on a bank…..’John D. Rockefeller’)…..and she looked at it…..WTF?…L* This is what Jewish women are like.Another funny thing you might have noticed in dating Jewish women.You will see the most awesomely beautiful Jewish woman….with the most butt ugly guy you could imagine???…..How did he get this woman you ask yourself??….Simple!…..MONEY! Jewish women are very greedy! Do not ever think otherwise! Your looks….your charm…your poise…your charisma…your manners…does not matter….MONEY is all that matters!….Shalom!!

  191. Mark says:

    @earl

    “”Perhaps Jewish women are no different from any other woman who has this thinking.””

    No…..Jewish women are different.They are more entitled.They have a different belief system.They are taught that they are “God’s chosen people”.I believe that also.That is what the Good Book says! But,they believe that the world is theirs for the taking…and that every demand that they have will be met.I saw this is in my sisters! Jewish men on the other hand,are brought up to be responsible,ethical,moral,hard working….and most of all…….RESPONSIBLE &PROSPEROUS!

    @Heaviside

    “”Lifshitz is probably Jewish. Daily reminder that feminism is Jewish subversion of gentile society.””

    She is a Hebrew….GUARANTEED!….if you research feminism you will find that all of the “leaders” are Jewish women.

    @Boxer

    Thanks for the Dallas video.I used to watch that show when I was in high school.I recommend anyone to watch the first couple of years…..they are great shows! But,it got to “mainstream”….after 2 or 3 years it went to hell!

  192. Boxer says:

    Whenever some dopey wimminz shows up here, it’s common for her to write either a preface or a postscript that goes something like…

    Do not expect me to respond to any comments. I won’t. I am sorry if this angers you but I can’t be bothered.

    Don’t confuse amusement with butthurt. Most of the fans of the Dalrock blog get a lot of secondary chuckles out of a loudmouthed bitch who lacks self-awareness to the extent that she boasts about making her own kid’s life hell, on public fora.

    Oh and lastly, I know full well that this will impact my daughter for a lifetime, but you know…us terrible JEWISH FEMINISTS! We are just so evil that we don’t give a shit, now do we?
    This is so comedic! Thank you for making my afternoon. Please say a prayer for me

    Even if I were religious, which I ain’t, I wouldn’t waste my breath. No one gives a shit about you, cunt. Your only value to this world is to serve as an example to others of bad parenting and poor decisions.

    I do, however, feel very sorry for your little girl. I can’t imagine what it must be like to be trapped with you for the next decade and a half. I’m sure she won’t make it out without some serious psychological problems.

    Regards,

    Boxer

  193. johnnight says:

    > and me wishing that instead of dealing with a tyrannical almost-4-year-old I were in Greece being fed hunks of cheese by some stud

    what?

  194. greyghost says:

    Hey Dalrock looks like you opened up comments. Lifeshit’s and her crew came in and tightened you guys up. You all are trolls too.

  195. Funny, Dalrock is a troll for reading an article of her’s and discussing it on his OWN blog that has nothing to do with some ‘lifesshit so lets divorce my husband’ bitch.

    Simmer down you whiny cunts. Learn something instead of whining out your vagina hole with girlz power, independent wimmenz but Iz need alimony and child support, gimme gimme, asscrap!

    So you mean to say every woman in a bad or unhappy marriage which cannot be remedied by counseling or calm adult communication should just stay in it, and subject her child(ren) to observing the paents in an unhealthy relationship?

    Yes, you whiny cunt, if your husband didn’t cheat on you or physically abuse you, you have no Biblical reason to get divorced. That is what marriage is, not this liberal me fest crap of marriage 2.0 that we have today.

  196. Be ready for the big time Dalrock, Lipshitzzz will shine the way for you, like only a fivorced woman can do!

  197. Beeker says:

    I find this womans’ HuffPost article bizarre and immature. If her husband was so good, why divorce? Everyone is flawed. She made a commitment in marriage.

  198. Everyone is flawed. She made a commitment in marriage.

    His wallet didn’t make her gina tingle unfortunately. More than enough reason to get divorced and go seek hunky studs in debt riddled Greece.

  199. HawkandRock says:

    @Boxer

    “Your only value to this world is to serve as an example to others of bad parenting and poor decisions.”

    Maybe you didn’t pick this up the 17th time it was brought to your attention…..but she graduated from Columbia University. Thus, your assertion can’t possibly be true.

    Hahahahaha

  200. Colombia University? Whooooooaaaaoooo!!!! Impressive!

    Women’s Studies and English Lit no doubt….

  201. And by the way, how dare you criticize a mother who worries about her child?

    This says so much right there. Inoculation from criticism through self-harm. The only merit badge she missed in this comment was not including “single” as an adjective.

    It frightens me that I may one day raise children in a world that gives a microphone to presumptive, judgemental, whiners like you and most of the comment trolls on this story.

    Hamsterlation: I’m from a feminist dominated college campus and men speaking “frightens” me. Men shouldn’t have an opinion other than the ones women give them. I want to raise my children in a feminist totalitarian state. (The good news is that humans are reproduced via parthenogenesis.)

  202. Humans AREN’T reproduced via parthenogenesis.

  203. Boxer says:

    Dear Hawk and Rock:

    Maybe you didn’t pick this up the 17th time it was brought to your attention…..but she graduated from Columbia University. Thus, your assertion can’t possibly be true. Hahahahaha

    I’ve been there. It’s a very nice campus up in Harlem (on the north end of New York City, in other words). Laura was likely the type of bubbleheaded dolt that I saw so much of, wandering around aimlessly, talking to herself like a crazy person. From her “Mr. Sardonicus” portraits that grace the web, she seems exactly the type.

    Incidentally, Dalrock might enjoy this one (assuming he hasn’t already seen it)…

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laura-lifshitz/why-i-will-never-live-on-_b_6641686.html

    Here she is, talking about being a “strong and empowered” wimminz, while she lives as a parasite on the back of her ex-husband’s child support and alimony checks. Must be nice, eh?

    These sorts of idiots are cute and funny until they have a kid they can ruin, and then comes the tragedy.

    Regards,

    Boxer

  204. @Boxer, regarding that article/

    She was “zilch”. Because she (and probably her husband) had bought into the post-modern lie that earning money equals personal value. It wasn’t about respecting him for providing “his house”, it was about competing for who’s house it was. Dependency and femininity being the ultimate evils here. Depending on the husband is portrayed as “being invisible” in that article. Gee, I wonder why she wasn’t ‘happy”.

  205. Also, based on that article, I imagine a female emperor penguin determining that she will never depend on another male again and leaving her offspring to die on the ice. The result in humans is identical if not so direct in it’s consequences.

  206. Pingback: “The Writer” writes | Dalrock

  207. The comments on that article are horrendous. I ask every and all men to read it. See what women think of you, do yourself a favour and freaking read it!

  208. I understood his stress but not as much as I understand now as an almost divorced mom dealing with our own finances. There were many times that I thanked him for working so hard while I got to bond with our child, but there were also times when I didn’t appreciate what he was going through for our family and for that I am sorry. But I felt as if there was a constant reminder that because I wasn’t working, I meant zilch.

    I felt as if what I did as a mother didn’t mean anything. He didn’t come home and say, “Thank you for keeping our house so immaculate. Thank you for keeping our daughter so engaged and happy.” It’s possible he thought it inside his mind because he is a quiet guy, but I rarely heard praise or anything positive about me, his wife.

    Then finally, my husband and I separated, and I landed an amazing job. I say amazing because my work is family-friendly, stable, and supportive of mothers. I’m not making bank or anything but I Laura Lifshitz, am bringing home some bacon again. Finally, I had a voice to add into the arguments. Sure, I had spoken up plenty when we fought as a married couple but I was powerless. Now, I have power.

    That’s what it’s all about for women like this, power. She divorced a perfectly good husband because he provided for her and her child but demanded that she have the same power over the finances that he had. She probably expected him to come home and do work for her because she was tired and couldn’t cope, which led to extra stress being loaded onto him which led to increased outbursts between the two of them.

    It ‘felt,’ oh there’s the feeeewwelings again, frivorced based off her feelings of not being respected or loved enough. These women are not stable, they are not loving or respectful of what husband’s do for them; or what men do in general. They do not care that a husband had to incur increased stress and more work hours because she couldn’t find work or had been to injured to work during and after her pregnancy.

    The entire reason she destroyed her marriage and damaged her daughter was so that she could earn some bacon and have a voice in a dead marriage.. Congrats you silly, daft cunt! Fuck you Lifshitzzzlollzozl!

    She was utterly bernankified! Fiat dollars meant more than family, haha, GBFM should go to town on her.

  209. modern woman says:

    @God_is_Laughing
    Sorry, wrong on all accounts, but good try. Does your mental health provider encourage you by saying “good try”, I always find that to be the best response when someone is so clearly incapable of elevated conversation.
    My education is none of your business, but I assure you, I welcome and enjoy intelligent debate and meaningful discourse regardless of source. You nonsensical drivel, however, qualifies as neither. =)
    For the record, I am not a bleeding heart liberal that identifies and defends everyone who sees themselves as “victims”, I just think that this whole blog post is silly and childish. Furthermore, I do not think that defending a woman’s right to have an opinion that differs from yours is the same as “supressing” mens opinions, and I am tired of all the perpetrators of foul behavior and bad form crying that it is their constitutional right to be a moron because they have free speech. Yes, it is your right to be a moron, and no one should ever take that away from you, but it is my right to call you a moron. I only call them as I see them….

  210. earl says:

    ‘1) Laura never wanted a divorce. She wanted to make her marriage survive no matter what the effort required. But now she is living with the consequence of having married someone who was not willing to make the same effort.’

    So if that’s the case…it was the husband that filed for divorce?

  211. @modern woman, you are the one who actually typed on a keyboard:

    “It frightens me that I may one day raise children in a world that gives a microphone to presumptive, judgemental, whiners like you and most of the comment trolls on this story.”

    Which is saying what? That men blogging about things that interest them is the “world giving a microphone” to them? And this “frightens” you? Here you double down:

    I am tired of all the perpetrators of foul behavior and bad form crying that it is their constitutional right to be a moron because they have free speech.

    Foul behavior as determined by a fascist such as yourself? I have an opinion, it differs from yours, I am going to express it. Deal with it.

  212. Boxer says:

    Dear “Modern Woman”:

    Sorry, wrong on all accounts, but good try. Does your mental health provider encourage you by saying “good try”, I always find that to be the best response when someone is so clearly incapable of elevated conversation.
    My education is none of your business, but I assure you, I welcome and enjoy intelligent debate and meaningful discourse regardless of source. You nonsensical drivel, however, qualifies as neither. =)
    For the record, I am not a bleeding heart liberal that identifies and defends everyone who sees themselves as “victims”, I just think that this whole blog post is silly and childish. Furthermore, I do not think that defending a woman’s right to have an opinion that differs from yours is the same as “supressing” mens opinions, and I am tired of all the perpetrators of foul behavior and bad form crying that it is their constitutional right to be a moron because they have free speech. Yes, it is your right to be a moron, and no one should ever take that away from you, but it is my right to call you a moron. I only call them as I see them….

    That was a very interesting kook-rant. Especially humorous are the declarations of superior intelligence, interspersed with wordsalad prose and passive-aggressive emoticons.

    I’m guessing you have Asperger’s, yes? In any event, do keep posting.

    Regards,

    Boxer

  213. earl says:

    ‘No…..Jewish women are different.They are more entitled.They have a different belief system.They are taught that they are “God’s chosen people”.I believe that also.That is what the Good Book says! But,they believe that the world is theirs for the taking…and that every demand that they have will be met.I saw this is in my sisters!’

    Ok…so it’s like feminism on steroids. It’s not about how much love they give but how much power they can get. I hate to say it but that is the first reason why divorce and/or men avoiding Jewish women happens because that type of thinking is corrosive in marriage. Being God’s chosen people doesn’t mean the world is your oyster…the Bible gives plenty of proof of that.

    Now that being said…it’s not just Jewish women who have this idea either, but most of modern Western society. Heck I continously have to keep in mind if what I’m doing is giving out love or trying to take power for myself.

  214. I understood his stress but not as much as I understand now as an almost divorced mom dealing with our own finances. There were many times that I thanked him for working so hard while I got to bond with our child, but there were also times when I didn’t appreciate what he was going through for our family and for that I am sorry. But I felt as if there was a constant reminder that because I wasn’t working, I meant zilch.

    I felt as if what I did as a mother didn’t mean anything. He didn’t come home and say, “Thank you for keeping our house so immaculate. Thank you for keeping our daughter so engaged and happy.” It’s possible he thought it inside his mind because he is a quiet guy, but I rarely heard praise or anything positive about me, his wife.

    Then finally, my husband and I separated, and I landed an amazing job. I say amazing because my work is family-friendly, stable, and supportive of mothers. I’m not making bank or anything but I Laura Lifshitz, am bringing home some bacon again. Finally, I had a voice to add into the arguments. Sure, I had spoken up plenty when we fought as a married couple but I was powerless. Now, I have power.

    Translation: I wanted power more than I wanted to avoid putting my kids through the meat grinder.

  215. BTW: Laura Lifshitz can’t be bothered to respond to comments. But she can be bothered to post three times on the blog of somebody she considers to be a troll.

    In other words: She just got herself the guaranteed last word. Have any responses to her? Well, she just can’t be bothered to respond! Boom: Automatic victory.

  216. Opus says:

    I am grateful to fromtvtomommy for answering my question at the head of the thread as to pronunciation of Lifshitz. You Americans have some very strange names (which perhaps might have been more happily anglicized at Ellis Island). I once picked up a girl – a young journalist and god knows I was still at school at the time (day game) – whose father, so she told me, from embarrassment had changed his surname from Redhead to Read. Perhaps one can never escape an embarrassing name – so I am guessing Lifshitz is not fromtvtomommy’s married name.

    I too like to write.

  217. earl says:

    From what Vox Day has been talking about It’s basically the behavior of what a ‘gamma’ male would do in debates. It’s not about engaging in debate and promoting discussion, it’s about making you feel bad. If you feel bad…they think they won the debate.

    I don’t feel bad…I wasn’t the one in the marriage or divorce. I think it serves a good purpose of discussion. I certainly don’t want to be divorced if I get married. And a big part of that seems to come from who wants to have the most power.

  218. @Boxer

    Think it’s any coincidence that she brought up mental health professionals?

  219. Hank Flanders says:

    I like how frommtvtomommy attempts to elevate her importance by pretending she has a “troll” and a “bully,” because somewhere else on the Internet someone writes critically about the life choices she’s personally made available to the public (assuming she is who she says she is). Surely, a worthwhile writer knows the proper usages of the words, “troll” and “bully,” yes?

    If not, then let’s get specific. A troll is not someone who criticizes your choices or disagrees with you. A troll is characterized by someone whose sole purpose on a message board (not his own blog) is to incite negative reactions from other posters on that message board. Further, a troll is being flippant. His comments usually don’t contain even a modicum of seriousness on the part of the troll. Does Dalrock not seem serious in what he writes?

    Also, a bully is someone who intimidates smaller or weaker people. Again, disagreeing with or criticizing someone’s choices, especially choices they make publicly available is not intimidation, and only an insecure person would take it as such. Therefore, Dalrock’s post is not bullying by any definition, not the even “Internet bullying” definition that we hear a lot about, lately. Does the “victim” in this case feel so small and weak that she has to call someone who disagrees with the lifestyle she makes publicly available a “bully?”

    I’m not the least bit surprised fromtvtomommy doesn’t plan to respond to the comments made in response to her drive-by posting here, because then she would have to defend her inaccurate comments. I guess doing so would take a while.

  220. Dalrock says:

    @Boxer

    Incidentally, Dalrock might enjoy this one (assuming he hasn’t already seen it)…

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laura-lifshitz/why-i-will-never-live-on-_b_6641686.html

    Here she is, talking about being a “strong and empowered” wimminz, while she lives as a parasite on the back of her ex-husband’s child support and alimony checks. Must be nice, eh?

    Yes. I saw that while researching the post. There is another article I found from her on Pop Sugar which puts this in better perspective. She complains in the post you link about how her husband was constantly reminding her that he was the bread winner.

    I struggled to find work that would cover day care expenses, as well as my student loan payments. My partner was understandably frustrated and having a hard time seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. And me? I was depressed too. I was a smart woman and knew I had much to offer if only the right person would give me a chance. But that wasn’t the worst part.

    The worst part was being invisible and powerless because of my inability to earn a decent paycheck. Time and again as my husband and I fought, he would remind me:

    “I pay the bills. It’s my house.”

    In 1 Mom’s Battle With Princess Culture, she gives more information which provides context for their arguments. While she was letting her husband support her, she also was obsessed with making him do the housework, etc.

    Growing up, I saw my mom do just about everything in the house. She worked, she cleaned, and she managed four kids. My dad, who’s the hardest worker I know, was not involved in these aspects of life like most fathers from that generation. So early on in my little mind, I decided I was not going to be doing a family alone. I was going to expect my partner to share his load of the work. I was not going to be Cinderella, cleaning and sweeping. I was not going to be Ariel, whose sole purpose in life was to sing and snatch some guy she saw for two seconds on a boat. I was going to be an independent woman!

  221. earl says:

    Yeah…….well we see which path she chose.

    ‘So early on in my little mind, I decided I was not going to be doing a family alone.’

    ‘I was going to be an independent woman!’

  222. @ Dalrock.

    While she was letting her husband support her, she also was obsessed with making him do the housework, etc.

    That is the presumptive narrative in any event. The fact that you found the actual narrative of this mentality at work is just icing on the cake. We’ve seen this dynamic in the culture over at least the last generation with “choreplay” and the “50/50” crap. We have identified the poison, I think the antidote is civilizational death.

  223. Also, concerning “modern woman” have we spotted a rare Social Justice Warrior indoctrinated solely via Tumblr, not having any time in college “Women’s Studies”? Maybe she hasn’t had a chance to go to college yet and is using the term “woman” in the broadest possible sense. I have to say that she seems a bit tweaked even by modern standards to be a high school SJW entrant. Tumblr is a thing to behold though.

  224. modern woman says:

    @ boxer
    Sorry, sweetheart, but having the access to and the ability to use a thesaurus does not indicate superior intelligence in any way. As a matter of fact, in my extensive experience in the legal industry, it is often used to mask the lack of actual substance in an argument. Hmmm.
    BTW, the light humor makes me smile as I post, and since my life is pretty awesome, I am a happy person. My self worth is IN NO WAY tied to anything you or anyone else on this board think of me, so I’d say that your childish ‘kook’ response is wasted on me. You might as well save it for the women in your life who are glutton for punishment and enjoy your abuse. I am assuming that they either have daddy issues or are have far below average intelligence? Either way, it has zero effect on how wonderful my day is going. At what point will you stop pointing the finger at everyone else for the current condition of your crappy life? When will you realize that it is not everyone else, it’s just you? Anyway, post away all that you want about me. I am unfollowing this post because it is clear that there is no convincing you or anyone else to realize that there are other possible perspectives with value…and I’m having such a good day, I don’t want a little hate monger to ruin it with ugliness. Good luck in life with that attitude.

  225. modern woman says:

    Oh! One quick thing before I go. I am not sure what you are talking about in your references to Tumblr. I am not on Tumblr and never have been. I am barely on Facebook and Twitter and I would never give a group of people that I do not know access to either of those accounts, so modern woman was a completely random selection. Don’t bother wasting your time to try to use it to find me.
    And now I really am unfollowing, because I have an awesome job that I care about and need to get back to work. Have fun!

  226. Opus says:

    I don’t know about America but where I am we talk of the Legal Profession. Anyone referring to the Legal Industry as does Modern Woman would (were it here) persuade me that they were not involved in Law or at the least in any substantive way. Doubtless Novaseeker will correct me.

  227. Anchorman says:

    tl;dr

    The writer and a couple sycophants did a bombing run here and died of self-inflicted wounds.

  228. And now I really am unfollowing, because I have an awesome job that I care about and need to get back to work. Have fun!

    And not one fuck was given. Let the door hit you on the way out.

  229. thedeti says:

    So Dalrock points out Laura Lifshitz’ narcissistic essays for the HuffPo. Commenters comment.

    Lifshitz and her supporters show up. The best they can do is:

    1. Don’t judge.
    2. How dare you criticize me.
    3. You are bullying me by shining a light on my conduct and my poor choices.
    4. You are all a bunch of meanies.
    5. You are all a bunch of whiners and complainers.

  230. HawkandRock says:

    It’s uncanny. Everyone who disagrees with destroying children by divorce apparently is unhappy and has a crappy life.

    The recipe for an “awesome” life seems pretty clear — accept divorce as empowering and know that the children will be better off in the long run if mommy is happy.

    Easy peasy. Now get your mind right and be awesome!!!

  231. Anchorman says:

    deti,
    I’d like to add:

    6. You’re trolling her by writing about her on a different site and graciously allowing her to respond here.

    The “storm off” each one of them did is classic. It’s the “I’m going to give them a piece of my mind and leave so I’m not exposed to counter-points” crap that feminists love to pull. So strong and fierce that their form of argument is pot-shot and run.

  232. JDG says:

    frommtvtomommy
    Krystal C.
    Sabrina
    Alexandra Segal
    modern woman
    Sue Eastburn
    Kristeana

    So many sammich makers yet so few sammiches. Whats with you women? Get back in the kitchen. Then you’ll see some changes for the better.

  233. thedeti says:

    Good one Anchorman. This phenomenon of “make my points about how you are all a bunch of doody-heads and then leave” is The Flounce.

    Picture a woman saying what she wants, then dramatically and with great flourish arising from her chair, folding her arms, snorting “harrumph”, and then striding out of the room.

    The Flounce.

  234. mikediver5 says:

    One of my mother’s favorite sayings was, “All of us serve god’s purpose; some just serve as a bad example.”

  235. PokeSalad says:

    “1. Don’t judge.
    2. How dare you criticize me.
    3. You are bullying me by shining a light on my conduct and my poor choices.
    4. You are all a bunch of meanies.
    5. You are all a bunch of whiners and complainers.”

    All emotion….no logic or facts.

  236. Lol, from MTV to mommy! She skipped the middle bit, from MTV to wife to mother to divorcee to singlemummy! You go girrrrrl!

  237. Perhaps the biggest problem with cunts like this is the idea that ‘divorce’ equals a success of some sort rather than the absolute failure of a human being to keep their vow.

  238. So early on in my little mind, I decided I was not going to be doing a family alone.

    And yet that is exactly what she will be doing now…

  239. 😦 Wow… I think my words hurt her… didn’t ever think she would come and read this post. Poor woman – definitely praying for her.

  240. Luke says:

    Two related points regarding her claim to significant intelligence…

    1) Men dominate the higher levels due to their much less crowded intelligence distributions. That means that at 130 IQ, there are several times as many men as there are women, and at 160 the ratio exceeds 6:1 (being generous to women at that).

    Graph about this: https://rgambler.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/male_female_bell_curve_.png

    2) Her having taken a liberal arts degree at ANY U.S. college in the past 40 years is quite simply underwhelming as evidence she’s any brighter than a typical white Wal-Mart cashieress with a diary (which is all her “writing” really is, lacking much in the way of things like evidence, logic, and defensible falsifiable conclusions). As a test of how rigorous were her courses, how many Calculus classes did she have to take just to graduate in her major?

    It could be worse, though. Any degree given out by a Education department or primarily concerned with any sort of gender-, ethnicity-, or sexuality- “studies” IMO actually SUBTRACTS one from the recipient’s number of degrees. That is, a B.A. in Womyn’s Studies puts the awardess back to high school dropout, while an M.A. in such nonsense —> straight to “regard on same level as if never so much as set foot in an 8th grade classroom”, and so on.

    I thus take it I should regard the authoress as barely able to take in the wash or sweep floors, then. So be it.

  241. When having a discussion with the Tumblrettes I often wonder something along these lines……

    Her* pulse surged and tingles ran up and down her* spine as she* realized that before her was a man* that fell outside of the acceptable ranges of human behavior. Here he* was, the man* her* mother* had told her* about. The one who rebelled against the stifling social fabric and cut a stark contrast from the herds of neutered and subordinated cattle. He* had unabashedly and unmistakably referred to her* using a gendered pronoun. (Her* panties were drenched).

  242. By process of deduction, modern woman is apparently SJW by osmosis. We’ll see if she sticks the rage-quit or if we are graced with more solipsistic hamster wheeling.

  243. OH GID, I love it when you talk dirty!

  244. earl says:

    ‘All emotion….no logic or facts.’

    Well usually that’s the case when logic or facts would make the person look bad. It would have been better for her to not say a thing than to pull that drive by emotional manipulation.

  245. Regular Guy says:

    I could care less about Laura Lifshitz and her gaggle of sycophants. I feel sorry for the who marry and impregnate these parasites. And you know what they say about fools…

    “A fool and his money… and his dignity, his children, his house, the respect of his peers, his rights to Due Process, his status in Church and other associations are soon parted.” -An old English proverb revised for a gynocentric society.

    “To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman.” Prov 6:24 KJV

  246. I suppose this question would go out to both IBB and GWTDFT since both agree with each other that girls are hurt worse than men within divorce.

    Where would such a boy learn how to become a man if his father, the only man who apparently owes him any attention, is kicked out of the home and doesn’t impart to him those necessary lessons? There is no more damage that can be inflicted on an animal than to have the necessary skills to succeed at life removed from them at a young age and then to just expect them to survive.

    A girl will undoubtedly be damaged. I would even go as far as to say they would be equally damaged by the removal of the father from the home, however, the boy would be damaged at his core, his entire future identity removed from him. He will have no one to look to for help or guidance.

  247. Ah, feministhater……..how are we going to destroy masculinity if we don’t first destroy the modeling of that behavior? Damage? Don’t you understand masculinity is a cancer? IT is THE damage. Ejecting the fathers is the solution, not the problem.

  248. Hurting girls is the negative side affect of treating boys to a healthy dose of blue pill.

  249. Feministhater, I already wrote about how I feel about a father being absent in the home – his masculinity missing – and I agree with you that boys would be harmed horribly – I don’t believe girls would be harmed *more* it affects both sexes in different ways, like you described.

    It’s called The Importance of Fathers… http://girlwithadragonflytattoo.com/2015/01/11/importance-of-fathers-sinister-feminist-article-on-deconstructing-the-essential-father-vs-scientific-evidence-that-fathers-are-in-fact-needed/

  250. earl says:

    I’m sure removing the father is one of those equally damaging but in different ways setup for boys and girls.

  251. And this one.. where I say that raising sons is explicitly a task for MEN.

  252. greyghost says:

    That was cool of you letting them comment Dalrock. I thought you wee out for the week. Then I saw the “crew” That was really something. You should write an article for the NYT. Some preacher in NY is bound step on his crank and then you could put out some mild red pill bible study on them. Then you and Life-shit can be colleagues. You would have street cred with Life-shit and her crew.

  253. Ah, I can’t resist. Always been a sucker for wordplay.

    Would a shitzlifter be a thrower of feces?

  254. greyghost says:

    BradA

    I just asked questions. You are the one building a strawman.

    How does owning a firearm mean someone is “doing something”?

    You still have not noted how men are “doing something” more than women. Though that is why I asked the question, to know what you were holding as the standard to judge love by.

    If I read what you say correctly:

    – Women show love by fighting against the modern system.

    – Men show love by owning a firearm.

    Could you clarify these, if it is not what you mean?

    You couldn’t have more misunderstood my comment than you have. You are a hard guy to exchange comments with.
    The thing with the firearms is for handling the men that lack the capacity to love. Women show love if they could by actually fight against the modern system as you said. Check out todays topic Life-shit she has no capacity for love. A loving person can’t write what she does. As someone noted above a man will stay with a sexless wife for the sake of his kids a woman can’t do that.
    I’m not going to change your mind on this but other people read his stuff. Including Life-shit and crew right now.

  255. That’s great. I think it’s despicable of society, conservatives, tradcons and feminists to kick fathers out of the home, destroying the ability of sons to be raised and then to hammer these same sons over their inability to ‘grow up’ when they have had no guidance nor manly influence in their lives and struggle to actually be men. Then these same people will then lambast these ‘Peter Pan’ boys with reports about how boys are struggling at school, struggling at university, women getting more degrees, being better at employment, this and that, you know the drill – and yet there will still be those out there that think girls are harmed more than boys… outrageous right?!

    The very reason these boys struggle with life is due to these same women actively sabotaging their sons’ futures with their frivolous activities – including divorce – and society’s direct refusal and outright ignoring of the problem of the destruction of masculine guidance.

    Which brings me back to my original problem. You said ‘Spot on’ to IBB’s comment. Cane was mistaken that you wrote the comment saying girls are harmed worse than boys, however, you agreed with it and you must therefore believe it. There can be no other scenario; of course you will say that you only agreed with part of it but you didn’t state that at all, and it’s quite an important distinction to make, don’t you think?

  256. greyghost says:

    1254@cox.net Check out this story here. This is the way it should be. They usually settle for something before it is too late.

    http://www.star-telegram.com/living/family/moms/article3831164.html

  257. Lol greyghost, that’s just cruel!

  258. @feministhater – I should’ve block quoted this part “Her’s is not a story of regret that readers can learn from in how not to make her mistakes. Hers is a story of selfishness and pride and smug arrogance where she is teaching women to understand that little girls aren’t always going to see things mommy’s way and that is THEIR failings, not mommy’s.”

    IBB was responding I think to Chiglinsky who thought that Dalrock shouldn’t be criticizing her when Lifshitz was only “warning women about divorce.” I was saying “SPOT ON” to his reply trying to explain to him that she was definitely not trying to warn women.

    I think they’re both hurt (boys and girls equally), but the way that IBB described a girl being hurt into adulthood (not being able to pairbond etc.) I really agreed with; I’m just not sure if it affects men that way as well. I haven’t read anything on how it really affects boys in their future as men and husbands, not to say that it doesn’t. With girls, I’ve seen it in friends that came from broken homes – most turned out very promiscuous, ow self-esteem, or turned into crazed SJWs with no morals…. almost trying to heal that Daddy wound.

  259. Cane Caldo says:

    @Girlwiththetrampstamp

    Cane Caldo … Aside from your inability to read (as IBB pointed out, that was not my own quote),

    It is my habit to skip every comment from IBB, and indeed I missed the “@IBB” at the beginning of your comment. Regardless, this is a pathetic attempt to distract. The fact is you quoted him; which is to say that you repeated what IBB said. Then you added “Spot on!”. Note your own exclamation mark for emphasis. Therefore: You said it. Therefore: My criticism of you is…spot on!

    its actually ironic what you’ve managed to do. While trying to (I presume) slut shame me for having a pretty gravatar, you’ve essentially sent hundreds of people to my site.

    Duh.

    My husband was off last night…

    Who’s bitch is this?

    so I didn’t read your comment until late this morning… and we’ve been spending time together all day🙂

    I’ll bet he regrets that.

    And I’ve watched with sardonic humor how your one comment trying to shame me for having “just so hair” and “cleavage” has done more than likely what you’d rather it had not: sent 157 visitors to my site who have viewed 440 times on a day when I was enjoying my husband & family & consequently didn’t post anything.

    In any case, my site is not at all about the things you drew up in your own mind – you will not find selfies everywhere, or “pouty lips” lol… I’m glad you pointed so many in my direction, they will only see how wrong you are – that I actually write little pieces on topics (albeit nothing profound definitely) but that my site is not at all what you painted it to be.

    As we’ll see in just a second, you know I didn’t mention your blog. I have no idea what you post over there. My criticism was of your profile picture here, and your name here and your comments here. While I understand it is useful for you to misdirect, its my pleasure to bring you back to bear.

    And you are incorrect, my gravatar has changed about 4 or 5 times, but it’s actually mostly been me cuddling with my newborn son & SMILING – only the last two have been of me alone trying to regain who I looked like before pregnancy.

    Did I call it, or did I call it? Now you get back to my actual criticism, and you say exactly what I predicted (“Your profile picture is a rotation of pouty-lipped selfies; this newest with just-so hair and just-enough cleavage so that we know you got decent tits, but leaving you with plausible deniability that you are just being candid.”)

    Its funny though that it bothers you – I’ve seen this a lot with religious men who have wives who are prudes in bed… they can’t stand seeing someone even remotely pretty or even showing the very least amount of “cleavage” because it sends them into a state of drastic turmoil as they find themselves SO TEMPTED that they direct their anger towards the woman for being beautiful/slim/good body/pretty hair.

    Just think… if you think that my pic has actual cleavage in it, I’d hate to imagine what your wife shows you in the bedroom (eskimo maybe?) ….😉 Clearly, you don’t know what real cleavage is poor man.

    …with the notable exception that I did not consider you would be so foolish as to take potshots at my wife as you flailed. The only effect being that you publicly soiled yourself. You are exactly as I said.

    This is a blog populated almost solely by men. It’s whorish that your attempts to “regain what you looked like before your pregnancy” can only be validated when done in the presence of strange men online, and only after you’ve shown just the right amount of cleavage. How many times will you protest what I’ve said by admitting I’m right?

  260. LOL You were so foolish as to take potshots at my husband in talking about my breasts and the general disrespect you showed me – you’re just a carnal Christian with no real conviction in how to care or treat sisters in Christ or their husbands. I showed him your comment that next day, and he was the one who laughed and said those things about your wife (and I am hands down, certain he was right).

    If you can’t take what happens when you insult another man’s wife, then don’t dish it🙂

  261. feeriker says:

    So many sammich makers yet so few sammiches. Whats with you women? Get back in the kitchen. Then you’ll see some changes for the better.

    Please. The thought and image of these “women” being anywhere near a kitchen induces the same God-I-can’t-unsee-that-PLEASE-lemme gouge-my-eyes-out reaction as the mention of sex with them.

  262. GWADFT,
    There is some truth in what Cane Caldo states. Your own words have proved it. Don’t be so defensive and try to grow in Christ from it.

    Cane Caldo,
    I doubt it’s because your wife is frigid or ugly. Highly more likely you can just be an asshole sometimes that doesn’t mind being in the spotlight and enjoys being considered the smart (ass) guy in the room. You are the smart guy in the room, but your often the asshole also. I might suffer a similar diagnosis my own self at times.

    Regardless, you want to actually do something for the Kingdom of God instead of infighting, pissing and moaning amongst ourselves- we’d all show a lot thicker skin with our brothers & sisters in Christ when they point out our shortcomings. We’d also show a lot thicker skin towards our brothers and sisters for their shortcomings. Grow up- the both of you. You’ve got dozens of unbelievers watching your spat. There is plenty to fight about with those who love the deeds of darkness- quit wasting your energy one each other.

  263. Bluepillprofessor says:

    @FromTv a/k/a Lifshitz: You have to admit that the topic you wrote about and your Jewish name creates a rather gruesome dissonance.

    Dalrock is not going to restore your marriage but if your husband had taken the Red Pill you may have saved yours. We deal with wives like you all the time over on http://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/ and the great majority of the time they fall into line.

    Bullying? A writer should be able to stand up for herself when the arena is mere words.

    We object to you writing about divorce as a good or even valid life choice. Why not write us a nice tail about the horrors of divorce to which you allude and I am sure Dalrock will stop beating you up.

  264. Ladies…

    frommtvtomommy
    Krystal C.
    Sabrina
    Alexandra Segal
    modern woman
    Sue Eastburn
    Kristeana

    Why are you here? I’d have Dalrock check all your IP addresses as I think you are all the same person who was just un-nerved by what Dalrock said but seriously, why are you here? That is a very serious question.

    I’m going to go out on a limb and say that deep down you agree with Dalrock (whoever you are.) That is why you are here. If what Dalrock had said about Laura was childish and immature and irresponsible you’d be laughing about over at Laura’s blog about the fool hosting this blog over here. That didn’t happen. You came over here (whoever you are.) You came over here because (and this is just my guess) that what Dalrock wrote had so much truth to it, it stung. It hurt you. And you simply couldn’t let it go. I’m going to further stipulate that if you had your own way (had some authority) you would do all you could to shut down this blog because…… the truth really hurts you.

    By you posting…. anything…. you have pretty much entirely validated Dalrock and the manosphere. That was the greatest compliment you could pay him.

  265. earl says:

    Plus there’s a few Bible verses about woman’s modesty. That being more important to have good works, a gentle spirit, and wearing respectable apparel…if you really wanted to make it about that.

    And there is a better way to go about rebuking with respect instead of going the insult route.

    ‘Do not sharply rebuke an older man, but rather appeal to him as a father, to the younger men as brothers, the older women as mothers, and the younger women as sisters, in all purity.’
    1 Tim 5:1-2

  266. SirHamster says:

    Regardless, you want to actually do something for the Kingdom of God instead of infighting, pissing and moaning amongst ourselves- we’d all show a lot thicker skin with our brothers & sisters in Christ when they point out our shortcomings. We’d also show a lot thicker skin towards our brothers and sisters for their shortcomings. Grow up- the both of you. You’ve got dozens of unbelievers watching your spat. There is plenty to fight about with those who love the deeds of darkness- quit wasting your energy one each other.

    Showing how to judge correctly is doing something for the Kingdom of God. Trying to tar both parties as being equally immature is obfuscating instead of clarifying. And that, to avoid some nebulous standard of unbeliever disapproval – since when is that a Christian’s standard for behavior?

    Get the log out of one’s own eye, and then address the speck in the eye of another. Does not tell us to pretend that the speck isn’t there.

  267. fh,

    I suppose this question would go out to both IBB and GWTDFT since both agree with each other that girls are hurt worse than men within divorce.

    Where would such a boy learn how to become a man if his father, the only man who apparently owes him any attention, is kicked out of the home and doesn’t impart to him those necessary lessons?

    From his father.

    If his dad was truly frivorced, dad is still going to have parental rights to be in his son’s life. Of course he should. Just because he is not in the house anymore doesn’t mean he is not in his son’s life anymore.

    Moreover, when that son is crying with his father because he missing him and doesn’t just want to see him every other weekend, dad now has the liberty to explain to his son that he didn’t want the divorce. Dad doesn’t have to (in fact shouldn’t) denigrate the boy’s mother when the two of them are alone, but he absolutely SHOULD let his son know that it was his mother who wanted the divorce, wanted to boot her husband out of the house for whatever frivolous reason she gave the judge (like that bullsh-t that modern woman gave us about emotional and verbal abuse.)

    The boy needs to learn from his father.

    There is no more damage that can be inflicted on an animal than to have the necessary skills to succeed at life removed from them at a young age and then to just expect them to survive.

    A girl will undoubtedly be damaged. I would even go as far as to say they would be equally damaged by the removal of the father from the home, however, the boy would be damaged at his core, his entire future identity removed from him. He will have no one to look to for help or guidance.

    I have no professional expertise here. You can stop reading there if you want, I have no psychological credentials. I only know what I see with my own two eyes and more thatn 30 years experience of seeing families destroyed by selfish women and what happens to their daughters, afterwards. My first girlfriend’s mom frivorced her dad and (as a result) she was NEVER-EVER going to be able to pair bond with me (or any man.) She just…. she just didn’t believe in marriage really, her childhood sucked. And that was her mom’s fault. My first fiance, her folks were also divorced. She point blank told me that she would NEVER be able to trust me (forget pair bondind, we weren’t even going to have trust) as she really had only two uses for my male gender, me penis and my wallet. That’s it. That was the only thing I was ever good for her, (thank goodness I didn’t marry her, but I was d-mn close.) This woman was full blown BPD as a result of her divorced parents. I would have been working hard (all my life, my entire life) making this woman “whole” at my emotional, financial, and psychological expense, if I had ever said “I do.”

    Do these things happens to boys of divroce? Sure. I expect that they do. But in my 30 years, I find it much more common with girls than with boys. And the reason (I suspect) is pretty obvious fh…

    ….in childhood, young gilrs need their mom as much much as very little boys need their dad. In young adulthood, a very young man often becomes what his mom made him and a very young lady becomes what her father made her. God help that girl in adulthood if her father wasn’t around because of that b-tch of a mom.

  268. MarcusD says:

    @modern woman

    I welcome and enjoy intelligent debate and meaningful discourse regardless of source. You nonsensical drivel, however, qualifies as neither. =)

    Ah, always have to tack that bit on to the end. An easy way out of a debate. What a surprise.

    since my life is pretty awesome, I am a happy person

    And now I really am unfollowing, because I have an awesome job that I care about and need to get back to work.

    If you have to tell people about it…*

    and enjoy your abuse

    The classic “you’re abusive” line. One of the easiest cards to play, and probably the best effect to effort ratio.

    *The second one is hilarious in how forced it is.

  269. MarcusD says:

    @Alexandra Segal

    jealous that she got published in the New York Times

    I think you’re projecting…

  270. Marcus, any time a person who argues with the premise of a blog tells the people on the blog how awesome their life is, they instantly lose credibility. For people who have an awesome life, they already know that and that are not inclined to share it. People with awesome lives do not typically want to make other people they don’t know, feel bad. And that would be the only reason why modern woman would be bragging.

    Me thinks she doth protest too much.

  271. BradA says:

    Greyghost,

    I am completely confused by what you wrote. I am still trying to get an answer to the question of exactly what women and men need to do to demonstrate that they love. What is the standard? I am not looking to force one on you, just to find what standard you use for each sex, if it varies.

    The drive by posters here are a bunch of idiots. I can certainly agree with that. Though many women would despise them and their foolishness, so their existence doesn’t impact the question, though it does provide some entertainment.

  272. SirHamster,
    You are making my point for me. Neither was judging correctly on the whole. Instead of admitting to their own downfalls they doubled down to their own detriment. Both are in the Bible believing- not churchians- but believers. In other words- despite small differences- on the same team. Both could have and should have handled it drastically differently.

    As far as that nebulous standard, you might want to check 1 Peter 2:12, Matthew 5:16 and quite a few other scriptures.

    As far as me, I haven’t quite gotten fat enough yet to have any man cleavage and I owned up to my own asshole sin, so while my log or speck has not yet been removed completely I won’t deny it is there.

    I like both Cane & Tatoo girl, so my comment for what it is worth and no matter how it is received is done for their benefit and not my own. I kind of like a good fight, but what I like and what my Master likes is not always the same.

  273. BradA says:

    If his dad was truly frivorced, dad is still going to have parental rights to be in his son’s life.

    Perhaps, but the dynamic can be hugely different. Every other weekend is a lot less impact than every day, even if overnight.

    Though he may also be pushed completely away with false charges, etc.

    Arguing who is hurt more by missing which parent is idiotic and like arguing about how many angels can stand on the head of a pin. All children are harmed by missing any parents. That may be unavoidable as in the case of a death, but it should never be encouraged. Arguing about it is a waste of time.

  274. DeNihilist says:

    JDG – like this –

  275. DeNihilist says:

    Hat tip to knuckledraggin.com

  276. GWTDFT,

    IBB was responding I think to Chiglinsky who thought that Dalrock shouldn’t be criticizing her when Lifshitz was only “warning women about divorce.” I was saying “SPOT ON” to his reply trying to explain to him that she was definitely not trying to warn women.

    Thank you. Yes, Laura was not trying to warn women away from frivorce. Her post was about trying to explain to women how they should rationalize their evil, un-Christian destruction of what God stipulated was sacred and holy, to their young children who just want daddy back in the house.

    I think they’re both hurt (boys and girls equally), but the way that IBB described a girl being hurt into adulthood (not being able to pairbond etc.) I really agreed with; I’m just not sure if it affects men that way as well.

    Oh it most certainly could prevent a boy from pair bonding in adulthood. I just don’t think its as common as it is for women. Its just what I have seen. I have seen way more functional marriages where the husband was a product of divorce than ones where the wife is a product of divorce. If I was doing a tally on my computer over the last 30 years, it isn’t even close.

    I haven’t read anything on how it really affects boys in their future as men and husbands, not to say that it doesn’t. With girls, I’ve seen it in friends that came from broken homes – most turned out very promiscuous, ow self-esteem, or turned into crazed SJWs with no morals…. almost trying to heal that Daddy wound.

    This is also the case. I made a point (my whole life as a father) to go on as many daddy-daughter dates as I could to get my daughter to grow up strong, ladylike, and as functional as I can get. I have done all that I could to make her like men as much as she could. Fail there, and I think I am partially failing as a father.

  277. SirHamster says:

    [b] You are making my point for me. Neither was judging correctly on the whole. [/b]

    All I saw was you calling Cane an asshole and an immature person in need of growing up.

    What did he judge incorrectly? Or is it the manner in which he provides that judgement? Is it a lack of gentleness? Do you usually call individuals assholes to get them to be gentler?

    [b]I like both Cane & Tatoo girl, so my comment for what it is worth and no matter how it is received is done for their benefit and not my own.[/b]

    I like them both as well, but saying they’re equally wrong and immature is not a correct judgement.

  278. “I like them both as well, but saying they’re equally wrong and immature is not a correct judgement.”

    Well, obviously preachinginthewilderness is right (and we alllll know it… unfortunately)😉 I can be pretty saucy and full of spunk if someone insults me.

    This whole post was just sad… when I saw it, I instantly knew who Dalrock was talking about (saw the whole thing play out on her own blog this past year and was disappointed). And then the usual comments attacking her – basic immature mudslinging. I had no idea she would actually come and READ this post/comments, it feels morally wrong that she saw this… like gossip or something and its clear we really hurt her. Maybe it was good feedback in a way? :/ Don’t get me wrong, I agree with Dalrock’s post, but the comments are sometimes awful and surprising that they’re coming from Christians.

    Its interesting that the women who exhibit beautiful character on here, have chosen not to post their thoughts on this one. I really admire Elspeth, and unless I’m missing something, she didn’t weigh in any comment on Laura Lifshitz. Think about what we showed that woman in the comments: rudely judging her looks, wrinkles, gossiping/discussing (is there a fine line?) about her life, showing her blatant racism/Anti-Semitism (something God utterly hates), and ultimately, probably turning her away from God because of what she saw here. I literally felt sick when I saw that she had more than likely read all that we’d said about her, including my own words. I don’t think its good to hurt other people, even if they are non-Christian and living a messed up life… I actually worry about them.

  279. They are both equally wrong, because they were both wrong. We’re not a bunch of damn feminists who sit here and argue about how no you were more wrong. Cane, while being technically correct in what he said the first time around went about it exactly wrong- both according to scripture and according to common sense. Therefore he was wrong. Tattoo girl shows too much flesh and presents herself on a male site in a way that is not fitting for a christian sister. She’s wrong. Her reply made it abundantly obvious.

    Cane has called himself an asshole, in quite a few more words, a great many times. Or in Cane’s words, “It takes great effort for me to be nice.” Cane’s a big boy. He’ll deal with me saying it and if he can’t he can address me. He should have put in a lot more effort or kept his mouth shut. I’ve seen him address the Enemy and his minions with a lot less vitriol than he used towards Tattoo girl and since he did it public he’s fair game- but I’ll approach him like a brother in Christ but be honest to him. He was an asshole. I also like him. He’s generally one of the smarter fellow’s out there and usually a breath of fresh air. This time he was an asshole. I’ll call it as such without ripping him to shreds.

  280. David J. says:

    modern woman’s reference to the “legal industry” is suspect. I’m an attorney and I describe myself as an attorney, not as someone who has a wonderful job in the legal industry. Her description is a pretty strong indication that she is NOT an attorney — maybe a paralegal, more likely a secretary or even some other position even more peripheral — PR, HR, or the copy room.

  281. SirHamster says:

    Cane, while being technically correct in what he said the first time around went about it exactly wrong- both according to scripture and according to common sense.

    This is what is missing from your earlier post then.

    Cane has called himself an asshole, in quite a few more words, a great many times. Or in Cane’s words, “It takes great effort for me to be nice.” Cane’s a big boy. He’ll deal with me saying it and if he can’t he can address me. He should have put in a lot more effort or kept his mouth shut. I’ve seen him address the Enemy and his minions with a lot less vitriol than he used towards Tattoo girl and since he did it public he’s fair game-

    So what does calling him an asshole accomplish when he already applies the label to himself?

    This isn’t about defending him. You’ve set yourself up above the fray and claimed to be the Adult In the Room by telling them to “Grow Up”, but I did not find anything in your post that showed a higher level of maturity or authority. You may find it self-evident, but I did not.

    If going for public correction, the public audience also needs convincing.

  282. Cane Caldo says:

    @SirH

    Trying to tar both parties as being equally immature is obfuscating instead of clarifying.

    Nailed it. Thanks.

    @PitW

    They are both equally wrong, because they were both wrong.

    It it is not my expectation that GwtDT will change at all in response to what I say here. Men like you were my real target; not women with the tramp stamp names and titty selfies. You are misunderstanding the fundamental elements of GwtDT because (1) she appears to be generally agreeable and (2) because she’s a pretty woman, or at least a woman.

    Fundamental Element 1: Here in the Men’s Sphere we recognize that–almost without fail–tattoos on woman are an outward sign of inner lack of judgment. (Sometimes it is said of men too, and often they are right to do so.) In The Latin: Tattoos are trampstamps. We also recognize that immodest dress on women is also a kind of trampstamp. So are selfies. GwtDT has been around for a while. My dissection of her name still stand; to which I should add that the diminutive “Girl” in her screenname is a word ploy meant to provoke images of youth and innocence; both in the title of the movie, and here in her avatar.

    Fundamental Element 2: Many men found the Men’s Sphere because their M.O. has been to pedestalize women, and they discovered this fact about themselves. Because so many men especially in the Men’s Sphere are greedy to see a “good woman” who they also think is hot, they give her a pass. To them she is the embodiment of The Dream Woman; the angel with a sexy tattoo; the woman who “gets it”. It’s false. They don’t exist, and if they did exist, then they are killed at the moment of observation by the exhibition itself.

    Fundamental Element 3: Yet she chooses to flaunt her flouting of Fundamental Element 1 because she knows that even (perhaps especially) in the Men’s Sphere women can get away with murder if they wink and coo…not to mention flashing a bit of “reclaimed pre-baby body”; which she presumes we appreciate, and which presumption makes her feel better about herself. She did not choose a mothering picture (the pictures she admits she disregarded in favor of pride); not pictured as her husband’s servant; but a sexy selfie with tit.

    Fundamental Element 4: This is the Internet, and she chooses to represent herself this way. She wasn’t born to post pouty-lipped selfies in a state a disrobe under a skanky name. It’s not her husband’s fault. We don’t even know this is actually how she is in the flesh. What we do know is that she has chosen to present herself this way in the Men’s Sphere.

    Those are the fundamentals peculiar to GirlwiththeDragonflyTattoo; the foundation upon which all other presumptions should be built; the threshing floor where we sift her words into wheat and chaff. What are those words? There’s a lot, and none of if any good.

    – That divorce hurts girls worse than boys.
    – We know that she literally laughs in derision at women with smaller boobs, and since she wrote it “out loud” we also know she thinks everyone else does, too.
    – Not only did she falsely mischaracterize my wife (not exactly lying; just unnecessarily foolish) she actually lied and said that I attacked her husband for what she does; when the fact is that I attacked how she presents herself, and did not even insinuate a word about her husband.
    – Then she used that lie to excuse her malicious . (If she thinks he is made to look poorly, then she has no one to blame but herself.)
    -She venomously denied my correct interpretation (by, idiotically, confirming it) until you, PitW, made your comments. I she now admits I was right (assuaged by the fact that you have taken her side). So there are lies there, too.
    – Ironically, there is another lie buried in there, and it is that she actually admits that you and I are right about her. She’ll say anything to win back her imagined place on the pedestal; falsely impugning me and lgrobins in the process. This goes on and on. Practically every comment she makes is either phony, or derisive, or both.
    – AND–riffing off your comments. (way to go…)–she has the gall to lecture everyone on our Christian witness towards Lifshitz.

    In summery, she deliberately chooses to piss all over the Christian Men’s Sphere, and in the real world this EXACT behavior goes either unseen or tolerated because it is women doing the pissing. If GwtDT was a man you would have picked a side, wouldn’t you? I’m curious: Did your discomfort get ratcheted up in response to her vile comments, and did that then change your perception of me comments from “harsh” to “asshole”? Are you holding me responsible for her flying off the handle and telling lies? I suspect this is the case.

    It’s more irritating to me that–believing yourself to be sure-sighted and reasonable–you have made the error to equate my truth with her lies for the sake of a false peace and egalitarianism under you! It was a boneheaded move. My wife is untouched by , and while I am harsh I did not wrongly accuse GwtDT. And all your equivocation did, PitW, was enable the Spirit of Jezebel to be tolerated in her and among us. I was not wrong, but I leave it to you to decide whether helping men see that the empress has no clothes is something an asshole does. “To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman.”, as Regular Guy posted above.

  283. Cane Caldo says:

    “In summery”; as in “The time of light”. Also a typo…among several others.

  284. This whole post was just sad… when I saw it, I instantly knew who Dalrock was talking about (saw the whole thing play out on her own blog this past year and was disappointed). And then the usual comments attacking her – basic immature mudslinging. I had no idea she would actually come and READ this post/comments, it feels morally wrong that she saw this… like gossip or something and its clear we really hurt her. Maybe it was good feedback in a way?

    Oh heck, enough with the shaming tactics.. do you feel the need to rebuild her mound for her. She rightly needs to be called to account for the damage she has caused. Why do you think you get to make the call as to what is ‘basic immature mudslinging’?

    Its interesting that the women who exhibit beautiful character on here, have chosen not to post their thoughts on this one. I really admire Elspeth, and unless I’m missing something, she didn’t weigh in any comment on Laura Lifshitz. Think about what we showed that woman in the comments: rudely judging her looks, wrinkles, gossiping/discussing (is there a fine line?) about her life, showing her blatant racism/Anti-Semitism (something God utterly hates), and ultimately, probably turning her away from God because of what she saw here. I literally felt sick when I saw that she had more than likely read all that we’d said about her, including my own words. I don’t think its good to hurt other people, even if they are non-Christian and living a messed up life… I actually worry about them.

    What racism? Is the Jew a race now? Not a Religion? Even if they are a race and not just a Religion as they always claim, how does making fun of her name make someone a ‘racist’, check your leftist card at the door please… I’m about as ‘race realist’ as it gets and I don’t think God hates that at all. I think he created differently races for a specific purpose and prefer to be able to keep it that way.

    I think Cane got to you because there is truth in what he said. Your pictures don’t include your husband at all, only you and your token children. The focus is about you..

  285. That should read, “I think he created different races for a specific purpose and I prefer to be able to keep it that way.”

  286. JDG says:

    DeNihilist says:
    March 23, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    Is she real or imagined?

  287. greyghost says:

    Cane Caldo
    I noticed what you were talking about. Each time you post up she shows more of her ass.

  288. earl says:

    @ Cane…

    What you said about her is correct. However are you doing it to help her become a better sister in Christ, or to show off how smart you are?

    I don’t think either of you are going to make any traction with each other going about it this way. You need to refine the way you rebuke someone…and she needs to realize how she is presenting herself to this corner of the internet.

  289. Hank Flanders says:

    Since I haven’t been following the exchange between girlwithadragonflytattoo and Cane Caldo, et al that closely and don’t really care to, I can’t comment so much on that, but I will say that while I find GWADFT’s website kind of interesting from what I’ve seen of it, I think she would be wise to remove the “f”-word from it. I don’t find bad language lady-like, gentlemanly, or becoming for a Christian who wants to set him or herself apart from the world. How can using nasty language, some of which I’ve also seen from the men on this site even in this set of comments, do anything but hurt our witness for Christ?

    Nevertheless, everybody speak how you want. I’m just saying I don’t think using bad language is good or beneficial in most circumstances. The only exception I can imagine in which it might be could involve a situation in which your life were in danger, and you used bad language to try to intimidate and deter a would-be attacker, but as we know, using violence to deter a would-be attacker would be acceptable in that case, too, whereas it usually would not be in others.

    I would also add that where GWADFT states on her site that a woman should wait for commitment from a man before sleeping with him, I think again, that a less worldly viewpoint is to encourage people to wait until marriage, as “commitment” can imply any number of things, including a monogamous (but unmarried) relationship, moving in together, and engagement. Marriage is only one type of commitment, and the world knows this. Don’t we as followers of Christ want to be different than the world, particularly if we believe that what the world is doing is sinful? Don’t we believe sex outside of marriage (not just commitment) is sinful?

  290. Who installed the pedestal? At Dalrock of all places?!

  291. Cane,
    I made it clear I think she was wrong for how she was presenting herself. That you can’t get that smacks of pride. I agree with 80% of your diagnosis of Tattoo girl. Where I disagree is with how you are handling yourself. You are right, if she wasn’t playing around in the image of tramp town she was certainly flirting with the corners of it. I said that three different ways from Sunday.

    The fact remains, that despite some immaturity and sin shown from Tattoo girl she’s a mile ahead of most christian sisters in this world. Is she at Elspeth’s level of maturity? Your wife’s? My wife’s? I can’t say that. Probably not but I don’t know her well. enough. But she reacted emotionally to someone treating her like an asshole- wow, women never do that Cane. She got attacked, she spouted off at the mouth and further went down the wrong road. I wish she had owned up to it in a more point blank way and not tried to be be cute about it BUT, and this is my criticism of you. My rebuke of you.

    You carry a lot of weight in these corners- and you like that. It’s evident. Very evident. I’m okay with that. But sometimes you get out in front of yourself and don’t put in the effort you have very candidly said it takes you to treat your brothers and sisters as they should be treated. If you’d of handled it in a different way you could of helped your christian sister, not made an ass of yourself & her and presented the Kingdom in a better way. So if calling sin is egalitarianism…well that’s just’s laughable my friend. I’m sure the feminists that hate my family and I will be glad to know we are egalitarians who pedestalize women…they’ll get a real good laugh out of that. Suck up your pride. You were an asshole, own it. You own it plenty when someone doesn’t call you out on it but can’t own it because you my friend don’t like answering to anybody. Which is as much of a failing amongst men as referenced failings of girls wearing tattoo’s.

    As far as being under me- I again thought I made it pretty clear it was any easy diagnosis because I suffer the same tendencies. No one under me here. Just doing to you what you’ve done to me a half dozen occasions. Many are too treed by the great Cane Caldo to rebuke you, many of the rest you don’t respect enough for it to matter if they did. Many aren’t mature enough to do it. Manosphere or not. Cyber world or not. Our calling is to carry ourselves as the Redeemed. We often fall short of that. You being one of our leaders give many thousands of men the wrong & sinful ideas and bad leadership when you don’t. Don’t be the Charles Barkley of the manosphere Cane. Not just the wittiest, but then stand up and say I don’t want to be a role model. You are a role model here. Men are following you. Put in the effort, the very effort that with your own pen you say you have to put in.

  292. Patrick says:

    I think this Lifshitz chick is definitely going to be the Jenny Erikson of 2015. So much truth revealed in her words and reaction to this blog. By the way, what ever happened to Jenny? Is she now avoiding the spotlight or has she just moved on to another venue?

  293. Cane Caldo says:

    @greyghost

    I noticed what you were talking about. Each time you post up she shows more of her ass.

    That is an excellent way of putting it.

    @Earl

    However are you doing it to help her become a better sister in Christ, or to show off how smart you are?

    Neither. What I want is for men to stop paying her attention. She was correct when she assessed that I think she should be If she needs attention and instruction on marriage then she should get it from her husband. Her lewdness (showing her ass, as greyghost said) is strong evidence that she will never do that as long as she gets positive attention here.

    I probably should have wrote a fundamental element about how wives learn.

    I don’t think either of you are going to make any traction with each other going about it this way. You need to refine the way you rebuke someone…and she needs to realize how she is presenting herself to this corner of the internet.

    It would be good if she would go and sin no more, but it is acceptable to me if she just goes.

    @PitW

    I appreciate that you’re trying to encourage me to be better. However; this particular instance you are still misunderstanding. See my comments to Earl.

    The fact remains, that despite some immaturity and sin shown from Tattoo girl she’s a mile ahead of most christian sisters in this world.

    Good grief, man! Did I not just demonstrate that those “miles ahead” you think you see are bogus. This era is ruled by the whims of women just like GwtDT. Another fundamental element underlying this conversation is that the leaders of the last several generations have arranged society so that the brood of vipers ruling the houses of worship of today are women. The Writers which Dalrock has been on about are the present scribes; writing laws unto themselves and themselves as the law. Wake up! Believe what your eyes see!

    Did I not respond respectfully to you? What you want is for me to be pleasant to GwtDT as she manipulates and wheedles and divides. I will not.

    Though, I will admit that my joke that her husband regrets spending time with her was an asshole thing to say; a fly in the ointment. My bad.

  294. Mmhmm says:

    I struggled to find work that would cover day care expenses, as well as my student loan payments. My partner was understandably frustrated and having a hard time seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. And me? I was depressed too. I was a smart woman and knew I had much to offer if only the right person would give me a chance. But that wasn’t the worst part.

    The worst part was being invisible and powerless because of my inability to earn a decent paycheck. Time and again as my husband and I fought, he would remind me:

    “I pay the bills. It’s my house.”I struggled to find work that would cover day care expenses, as well as my student loan payments. My partner was understandably frustrated and having a hard time seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. And me? I was depressed too. I was a smart woman and knew I had much to offer if only the right person would give me a chance. But that wasn’t the worst part.

    The worst part was being invisible and powerless because of my inability to earn a decent paycheck. Time and again as my husband and I fought, he would remind me:

    “I pay the bills. It’s my house.”

    In defense of Laura Lifshitz, it would seem that her husband pushed her to divorce. Her husband treated her with contempt because she failed at providing. Well providing is his job and he was evidently doing a poor job of it. Comments like that indicate that he didn’t value her as a wife, but only as a potential co-provider. It is no surprise that she decided to stop providing wifely services and focus on providing for herself. Had he valued her as a wife instead of resenting having to support her he’d probably still be married.

    I’ve seen quite a few divorces where the husband resented providing and didn’t value homemaking. They end up providing and not getting the homemaking that they belittled during the marriage.

  295. @preachinginthewilderness: Tone policing. Christianese variant.

    Seems to me that we’ve been catering to the sensibilities of the Evangelical Feminist for so long that we think it “unchristian” to offend those with vaginas. Jesus said “Go and sin no more.” The Evo’s have tone policed him right out the door of that thing they like to call a Church.

    Jezebel should get thrown down, no gently, and anyone who is clinging to her.

  296. thedeti says:

    GwtDT:

    Word to the wise. If you don’t want men other than your husband talking about your breasts, don’t show your breasts to men other than your husband. And the gravatar photo that Cane is banging on about “shows your breasts”, albeit in a concealed way.

    Don’t think that men can’t see and visualize your breasts simply because you aren’t topless. Men can, and men do. And it garners men’s attention. And subconsciously, you like this.

  297. thedeti says:

    mmmhmm: “I’ve seen quite a few divorces where the husband resented providing and didn’t value homemaking. They end up providing and not getting the homemaking that they belittled during the marriage.”

    Meh. What usually happens is the wife resents doing the homemaking and doesn’t value the provision her (not sexually attractive) husband is providing. But that’s really just a cover for the real reason for the marital strife: She isn’t sexually attracted to him and doesn’t want to have sex with him.

  298. Cane,
    She’s miles ahead because she agrees with most of what is said here and can put up with the harsh biblical truths that are here. My own wife, who has become a remarkably godly woman and the closest thing I know to the women you describe that women should be, can’t stand you guys. In fact of the half dozen women I know that I can honestly say our biblical- most of the manosphere is detestable to them. I’m less interested in a place to comment on the ugliness of feminism than I am on presenting truths to both men & women in such a way they can actually repent, learn and turn to Christ. We both know most never will, because they love the deeds of darkness, but there are those that we are not being faithful to in our words and deeds that would indeed walk in Truth if we would point the way. I do not deny Tattoo girl enjoys the attention- which is why I told you that you were technically right. Doesn’t change the fact that I think she wants to walk on the narrow path.

  299. earl says:

    ‘Don’t we believe sex outside of marriage (not just commitment) is sinful?’

    Yes.

  300. Anchorman says:

    @Mmhmm ,
    You do realize that her description of her marriage is likely 100% B/S, don’t you?

    My ex, if she ever admitted to any fault, always couched it with a built-in, don’t judge me, excuse.

    “I was never open with you, but I’m so tired from working all day.”

    Considering her warped perceptions on other topics, I would not take her word as law when it comes to recounting the details of her failed marriage.

    C’mon, man. The ex is to be 100% trusted on the reason for the divorce? In what world does that pass the sniff test?

  301. earl says:

    ‘Neither. What I want is for men to stop paying her attention.’

    Well the first sign of paying her attention is doing what you did.

    So again I ask…is it to make her a better sister in Christ or to show off how smart you are?

  302. Anchorman says:

    Word to the wise. If you don’t want men other than your husband talking about your breasts, don’t show your breasts to men other than your husband.

    I understand you want to be helpful, but she knew this already.

    She’s miles ahead because she agrees with most of what is said here and can put up with the harsh biblical truths that are here.

    …unless they are applied to her.

  303. earl says:

    I’ll be honest…I didn’t even notice anything about this particular woman until Cane brought it up. I didn’t even realize she had a blog.

  304. Boxer says:

    In defense of Laura Lifshitz, it would seem that her husband pushed her to divorce. Her husband treated her with contempt because she failed at providing.

    That theory would be plausible, save for the fact that she appeared here, sockpuppets in tow, to rave like a lunatic. Can any of you boys imagine what her husband’s life must have been like, married to that raging harridan?

    I know people in the Jewish community are worried about the huge numbers of Jewish dudes who marry out and abandon the tradition. Well, with examples like this, can anyone blame them?

  305. earl says:

    ‘I understand you want to be helpful, but she knew this already.’

    Yes either consciously or subconsciously women know how to get men’s attention. They have the option of either using their bodies or their femininity. Once they get married they should save that only for their husband and treat every other man like a brother. Instead of this wanting their cake (being married) and eating it too (garnering attention from strange men) attitude. Modesty in women is certainly something that’s lost.

  306. thedeti says:

    “She’s miles ahead because she agrees with most of what is said here and can put up with the harsh biblical truths that are here. My own wife, who has become a remarkably godly woman and the closest thing I know to the women you describe that women should be, can’t stand you guys. In fact of the half dozen women I know that I can honestly say our biblical- most of the manosphere is detestable to them. I’m less interested in a place to comment on the ugliness of feminism than I am on presenting truths to both men & women in such a way they can actually repent, learn and turn to Christ. ”

    A few thoughts:

    1. Why should the message be moderated to appeal to the sensibilities of women, who already know these truths?

    2. Men communicate in a characteristically blunt and direct manner because it reflects factual and logical thinking. Many of the men who have divorce, marital strife or failure in their intersexual relationships because they are feminine in their conduct, thinking patterns, emotional states and communication styles. They are not accustomed to being spoken to directly about what ails them. They need a bit of old fashioned male bluntness and directness to rebuke them, correct them and shock them out of their femininity.

    3. Women who can’t stand the commenters here usually are such because they see their own past or present conduct or statements reflected in what is said here. This place pulls back the curtain on their conduct and holds up a mirror. And they don’t like it, which is to be expected.

  307. Doesn’t change the fact that I think she wants to walk on the narrow path.

    PitW. Repentance is such a rare thing in this day and age I think that many have forgotten what it looks like. What does the narrow way look like from your perspective?

  308. Cane Caldo says:

    @thedeti

    If you don’t want men other than your husband talking about your breasts, don’t show your breasts to men other than your husband. And the gravatar photo that Cane is banging on about “shows your breasts”, albeit in a concealed way.

    Precisely. And, I note that she has edited her avatar to remove the cleavage.

    @PitW

    She’s miles ahead because she agrees with most of what is said here and can put up with the harsh biblical truths that are here.

    Is she actually agreeing, or is she blatantly ignoring them as she goes about trying to be the prettiest girl in the Men’s Sphere? What she says is to the former, but what is seen is only evidence of the later. They watch what we do, but do not listen to what we say. And we should watch what they do, and not listen to what they say, either.

    My own wife, who has become a remarkably godly woman and the closest thing I know to the women you describe that women should be, can’t stand you guys.

    Good. I don’t want her stand us. Because…

    I’m less interested in a place to comment on the ugliness of feminism than I am on presenting truths to both men & women in such a way they can actually repent, learn and turn to Christ.

    your wife should be listening to you, and other older women. Your desire for men and women to present the truth to each other goes against the advice of the Bible. Wives are to listen to and learn fro mtheir husbands, and older women are to teach the younger to listen to their husbands on these issues.

    This desire for men and women to present the truth to each other is your sense of egalitarianism that I spoke of and you denied. Women like GwtDT count on such unjust “fairness” (for it cannot be just as men/husbands and women/wives are very different) as a fissure to exploit.

  309. Also, most women don’t like Dalrock because of tone, my wife included. So? All of Churchianity has been BENT to make it a safe space for their sins. Being confronted by the truth brings two types of response, repentance or tone policing. If someone thinks that tone policing sounds innocuous enough they should consider that it was tone police that screamed “Crucify Him!”.

  310. earl says:

    ‘My own wife, who has become a remarkably godly woman and the closest thing I know to the women you describe that women should be, can’t stand you guys.’

    Why would she stand what a bunch of strange men talk about? You’re her husband. You’re the one whose teaching matters the most to her.

  311. Is she actually agreeing, or is she blatantly ignoring them as she goes about trying to be the prettiest girl in the Men’s Sphere?

    The unpleasant term for this in the gaming community (another men’s space that is under attack) is “attention whore”.

  312. earl says:

    ‘Being confronted by the truth brings two types of response, repentance or tone policing.’

    Exactly…where do you think PC language came from?

    If women don’t like what they hear in this male space they are free to leave. The policing for their safety has overwhlemed us enough.

  313. Mmhmm says:

    @ Boxer

    Well a bit of raving is to be expected when a person has been as thoroughly insulted as she has.

    @ Anchorman

    The idea that a person is less than because they make less money is a fairly common theme in failed marriages. It is unBiblical and sets the couple up for all kinds of issues. Husbands outrank wives because that is God’s order. Higher rank does not mean higher value or give license to treat those below you with contempt. When a husband claims higher rank because he earns more money this implies a deficiency in the wife. It makes his higher rank an insult rather than a simple fact. It sets up an unhealthy competition and it encourages the wife to seek to usurp power through higher earnings or if that fails through leaving him all together. Now she is an independent woman and not a deficient person who fails at providing and whose homemaking contributions were not appreciated.

  314. Cane Caldo says:

    @Earl

    So again I ask…is it to make her a better sister in Christ or to show off how smart you are?

    It’s not my job, Earl, to make her a better; nor should I take it upon myself. Even GwtDT senses this as she wonders aloud why women of beautiful character haven’t commented. Said another way: She wondered aloud why she lacked beautiful character. Good for her. I hopes she goes to find it.

  315. Scott says:

    Repentance is such a rare thing in this day and age I think that many have forgotten what it looks like. What does the narrow way look like from your perspective?

    This is actually a really good question in it’s own rite and deserves a red-pill/biblical post all on it’s own, maybe at Donal Graeme or some place like that.

    It looks more or less like this:

    1. Acknowledge the sin/transgression.
    2. Acknowledge the cost of it (what price was paid by the person/people you are repenting to, how did you hurt them?).
    3. Ask, “what can I do, if anything to make it right?” or “what are the consequences I have to face, regardless of whether or not the relationship is repaired?”
    4. Set out/promise to never do this thing again, regardless of whether or not you gain your brother/sister back.

    No excuses. No equivocating.

    There is a horizntal relationship (your brother/sister) and a vertical one (God). Both must be addressed with these steps.

    This level of accountability is pretty much NEVER seen. I have not seen it in my lifetime. Never heard a pastor or priest give this advice.

  316. Scott says:

    I forgot– 5. Ask for forgiveness.

  317. Anchorman says:

    Mmhmm,
    You completely missed my point.

    Why are you giving 100% credibility to her without a word from her husband (understanding it isn’t available) or the thought that, “You know, maybe an ex isn’t the best source for objective recounts of who is to blame for a non-Biblical divorce?”

    Hey, I admit I’m jaded/seasoned enough that whenever I hear a woman complain about “mental abuse,” I immediately think, “Oh, he finally stood up to you?”

    You know what I think? I think she was a relentless, passive-aggressive harpy who constantly hectored him and he finally said, “Shut up, you nag. I bust my ass for you to sit around and ‘hone your craft.” How about a little respect and appreciation when I get home?” To which she said, “Mental abuse! I want a divorce! I’m going to get the government to take your money and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it!”

    Now, given what you know from the details she’s provided, which scenario seems more likely?

    Awful, ungrateful husband who hates being a provider, or

    Badgering shrew who drove her husband further away until she was finally in a position to frivorce him.

    Keep in mind, she lives off his alimony and child support.

  318. earl says:

    ‘It’s not my job, Earl, to make her a better; nor should I take it upon myself.’

    Then why did you take it upon yourself to call her out? If your goal was to get rid of her, I think that plan backfired. Women leave when they are ignored…not when some guy is bringing fire and brimstone to them. Passion can be displayed many different ways.

    This is a teachable moment, what you said was correct…how you presented it needs work. Trust me…I got myself into something like this before. I learned very quickly ‘go to your husband…how does your husband feel about (x)’ or keeping the husband in the conversation is a better solution. She can fight all she wants, but what you are saying is the truth and she’ll eventually leave.

    ‘She wondered aloud why she lacked beautiful character. Good for her. I hopes she goes to find it.’

    The Bible has plenty of verses which point out what beautiful character is for a woman. If she’s wondering…she should go consult her husband as to which verses have it.

  319. Acknowledging and empowering the husband is always a good approach. The Godly variant of “Whose b*tch this is?”. Or in other words 1 Cor 14:34-35.

    It isn’t about sex, it’s about order.

  320. Cane Caldo says:

    @Scott

    There is a horizntal relationship (your brother/sister) and a vertical one (God). Both must be addressed with these steps.

    This level of accountability is pretty much NEVER seen. I have not seen it in my lifetime. Never heard a pastor or priest give this advice.

    Voddie Baucham does.

    @Earl

    Peace, Earl.

  321. Mmhmm says:


    Why are you giving 100% credibility to her without a word from her husband (understanding it isn’t available) or the thought that, “You know, maybe an ex isn’t the best source for objective recounts of who is to blame for a non-Biblical divorce?”

    She looks pretty bad, even by her own account. I assume that she’d clean it up a bit if she was being dishonest. Also because I’ve seen several situations that are exactly as she described. Husbands who don’t value homemaking and think that making more money makes them more important. It sounds like he was a poor provider and resented her. Not just because he had to support her, but because her needing support that he couldn’t really provide highlighted his shortcomings as a husband, provider and man.

  322. Anchorman says:

    @Cane,
    Voddie Baucham does.

    Years ago, you – indirectly – turned me on to him. I bought a couple of his books and actually heard him on the radio one time (keep in mind, I live in the Northeast).

    Rock solid and worth finding his site/works.

    I recommend him, as well.

  323. I suppose if I weighed in at all Cane, it would be to ask: why even wade into it with an attention whore? Call it and walk off.

    I’m a slow learner so I’ve trolled the ignorant myself. If she is truly a sister, she’ll repent, if she isn’t she’ll round up a crucifying posse of white knights. (*eyes the room).

  324. I didn’t get to read the comments really – busy…. But honestly, if its making men stumble or distracting from the point of unity then obviously I was wrong. Dalrock’s place should not have followers fighting amongst themselves – we should be seeking peace – if that means I don’t distract then so be it. Peace is more important

  325. Hank Flanders says:

    Get a load of this lady:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/yourtango/i-had-a-25-year-affair_b_6895252.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

    Not once in her story did I see any mention of remorse or even acknowledgement of what she did to this man’s wife or his kids, and supposedly, “family was paramount” to the man with whom she had the affair. The only point of the story that I can glean concerns loving herself and what it was like to be relegated to the status of “the other woman.” I believe the manosphere would rightly recognize this as a prime example of solipsism, right?

  326. SirHamster says:

    Then why did you take it upon yourself to call her out? If your goal was to get rid of her, I think that plan backfired. Women leave when they are ignored…not when some guy is bringing fire and brimstone to them. Passion can be displayed many different ways.

    It was extremely educational for other men, such as myself. To not be bewitched by charm, and to see the essence of the behavior – and to stand firm on the correct judgement even when faced with well-intentioned opposition.

    I’m going to need more of this wisdom, as I’ll be working in youth ministry with a young lady who has recently decided that she’s a Christian feminist. Daughter of a deacon, grew up in the church, college educated, involved with quite a few ministries. A “good” upbringing, yet quite reflective of these times.

  327. Gwtdft. Surely you know that men express love differently than women. They associate differently and relate differently. We don’t do “mean girls”. Cane and I had a go around several weeks ago and to be honest I’d have to go digging through our posts to remember what it was even about. I respectfully disagree with him about things (sometimes that may even get heated). Men often deal with this respect process in a formal way because it keeps the personal out, and the heat. It’s safe.

    https://empathological.wordpress.com/2012/05/27/the-economics-of-argument/

    Women entrants into this arena are like men wandering into a divorced wives coffee clache. Women, however, are not well versed or trained these days in practice of treading carefully. With images of Carrie Nation running around in their collective subconscious they still appear to think that they can barge into men’s space’s with fire axes without facing the consequences. This is changing, you are witnessing it.

    John 4:16

  328. To all,
    I’m not asking you to bring our talk or our actions in line with my wife, your wife or anybody’s wife. I’m asking you to bring it in line with Christ. My wife can read Dalrock just fine, same with Sunshine Mary. We are not exactly churchians.. We have groups of feminists that track us and write pages and pages on us. We aren’t exactly thinned skin or christianiese churchians. It is the comments where people, while calling for godliness and accountability from others- but don’t show it themselves. I’m not asking you to turn into mamby, pamby, limp wristed fellows who wear pink. But would not a private message delivered by Cane, SM, & Elspeth (who I know both would have done this at Cane’s request) to Tattoo Girl with scripture & firm, powerful Christlike love been a rebuke of way more effectiveness? Both for Tattoo girl and the Kingdom?

    If we were acting like men of Christ, those gals among us who actually believe as we do, might not enjoy reading amongst us. But they should be able to stand it. There is a difference between tuning in everyday and being repulsed. There is a difference sure between the way men and women talk, but there is a much bigger difference in the way those who are trying to bring glory to God talk and those who don’t. We can call hard truth, speak bluntly, all the while bring glory. Then those who want to take the narrow path will see how we live before men, both in godliness, power & grace and take the path with us. Sometimes we are busy turning many away by the way we conduct ourselves- myself included as I’ve already stated.

  329. Cane Caldo says:

    @GIL

    I suppose if I weighed in at all Cane, it would be to ask: why even wade into it with an attention whore? Call it and walk off.

    This is like explaining why a joke is funny. I hope it is helpful because I am running the risk of ruining it.

    Why? Because I have the ability. Earl’s advice to ignore someone is pretty solid when dealing with a newcomer. GwtDT, though, is not a newcomer. She has been commenting awhile, and is insinuated into the comments. Once a woman accomplishes that (whether by plan or habit) the supply of white knights is at her disposal. The proof of that truth is that they materialized right here, before our very eyes.

    Usually, one can’t just fire off a rebuke to a woman who is entrenched in the society and let that rebuke take its course. Unless she immediately agrees (which is almost never) she will attack, and that is a rallying cry to the latent white knights. White knights (being already starved for respect) are in a no-lose situation when confronting a leader because the reward-to-risk ratio is so high.

    PitW keyed in on that, and he was half right. I count on being seen as the asshole big brother. Not to show up the men, or to show myself as the smartest guy in the room, but to give them a no-lose situation from which they could learn. What else could be done with GwtDT once she was insinuated? She had undressed herself for the occasion. I could accomplish two things: separate the white knights from her, and get the confused prancing chick out of the men’s lockers. The more she said, the more I knew I could jerk her around and by doing so draw out the misguided.

    Dave, Earl, IBB, PitW–all the men here–are much more important to me than GwtDT; even when they white knight. GwtDT must count on being important to her husband. Going forward, others can judge whether I was wise or foolish, but keep in mind that we learn organically. Knowledge takes root some time after it has been seeded. Six months from now someone who hates my guts (but loves the truth) will repeat a truth I said to them, and which they denied at the time because I said it. I’ve been there, man.

  330. Well, I’m still learning. The difference between explaining a group dynamic vs. explaining a joke is that the latter is either organic, visceral and intuitive or it is not. So much damage has been done to the men’s locker room that our group dynamic no longer feels like any of those things. As a recovering White Knight it still feels alien to me. I’m still not sure we get it by osmosis. Maybe a softly spoken conversation over a quiet fishing hole is a better venue than a blog for explanations.

  331. Scott says:

    As a recovering White Knight it still feels alien to me. I’m still not sure we get it by osmosis.

    You said something there.

    Maybe a softly spoken conversation over a quiet fishing hole is a better venue than a blog for explanations.

    This is how it works with me and my son now. Sometimes a well placed statement while we sit in the deer stand sinks in and he reflects it back, in his own time, having mulled it over and applied it much later.

  332. Cane Caldo says:

    @GIL

    The difference between explaining a group dynamic vs. explaining a joke is that the latter is either organic, visceral and intuitive or it is not.

    Group dynamics are also organic, visceral, and intuitive. Some jokes are funnier told to a crowd, and some tickle more in private. And no joke is impervious to the environment in which the joke is told. (Fart jokes from a pulpit are not funny.) And you’re right that we don’t learn by osmosis, but by imitation and practice. You have to be there.

    Maybe a softly spoken conversation over a quiet fishing hole is a better venue than a blog for explanations.

    Sometimes that is better, but you asked me why here and not at the fishing hole.

    @SirHamster

    It was extremely educational for other men, such as myself. To not be bewitched by charm, and to see the essence of the behavior – and to stand firm on the correct judgement even when faced with well-intentioned opposition.

    I’m going to need more of this wisdom, as I’ll be working in youth ministry with a young lady who has recently decided that she’s a Christian feminist. Daughter of a deacon, grew up in the church, college educated, involved with quite a few ministries. A “good” upbringing, yet quite reflective of these times.

    I’m glad to be useful.

  333. earl says:

    Well I’ve had a run in with two married women before who were trying to ursup their husband’s authority by getting me to agree with them about something they wanted to do. That’s where I learned telling them to go to their husband in the discussion was the best course of action. They left me alone. In these cases this is why it is important to not white knight for a woman who isn’t your responsibility.

    Because let’s face it…if I did agree with them and their husband found out, where do you think that finger of blame is going to be pointed? It isn’t going to be at the wife.

  334. I read the comments… Preachinginthewildnerness is right, “There is a difference sure between the way men and women talk, but there is a much bigger difference in the way those who are trying to bring glory to God talk and those who don’t. We can call hard truth, speak bluntly, all the while bring glory.” The way Cane Caldo went about it was not bringing any glory at all to God and was diabolically seeking to destroy peace or to destroy his object of hate, saying pretty horrible things, calling me a bitch… it was not at all the way a man of Christ would talk to a woman (so SirHamster, you should take note that he did not accomplish anything good – it was Preachinginthewilderness’ response that made me think). Cane’s sinfulness went against all manner of scriptures, and there are enough people here that know their Bibles well enough to know this was true. Truth is supposed to be spoken in love. Rebuke is supposed to be done in gentleness. Preachinginthewilderness did it the right way, even suggested how Cane should have done it instead of the sinful way he did it.

    “Who is wise and understanding among you? He should show his works by good conduct (opposite of how Cane acted) with wisdom’s gentleness.
    But if you have bitter envy and selfish ambition (wanting to only hurt someone – not confront them out of love or concern – Cane’s motivation) in your heart, don’t brag and lie in defiance of the truth. Such wisdom does not come down from above, but is earthly and demonic. For where there is envy and selfish ambition there is disorder and every kind of evil.

    But the wisdom from above is first pure (good intentions toward another),
    then peace-loving (private messaging instead of insult hurling in public),
    gentle (not calling someone a bitch)
    compliant (willing to yield to help the group as a whole, willing to admit wrong),
    full of mercy and good fruits, without favoritism and hypocrisy.

    And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace
    by those who make peace.”
    James 3:13-18

  335. @Cane, I guess that was my long way of saying that while I might have a well developed sense of humor I don’t understand male group dynamics so well.

  336. Sarah's Daughter says:

    1 Timothy is such a short Book, pity more women won’t read it. It also seems they won’t go beyond 1 Corinthians 13 to the next Chapter.

  337. GWTDFT,
    If I’ve gained your trust, then for all the way he went about it wrong, he was correct in his diagnosis. Call me a pervy bastard if you must, but yes, the picture is not appropriate for your name here. If you can pick another handle-Tatttoo’s on a woman are a tramp stamp most usually.

    But most importantly, repent and seek forgiveness for your reply because it was as bad as Cane’s initial reply to you. Clothe yourself in modesty amongst men. Do it for yourself, for us and for Christ.

    Women walking in truth & in Christ are a rare and beautiful thing these evil days. Very rare, which means you carry a lot of influence and weight- do it in a manner worthy of a Christlike lady and learn from this that others may follow your example.

  338. earl says:

    I’m curious if her husband is aware of her handle name, photo, and commenting around these parts. What does he have to say about it?

  339. SirHamster says:

    (so SirHamster, you should take note that he did not accomplish anything good – it was Preachinginthewilderness’ response that made me think) Cane’s sinfulness […]

    World doesn’t revolve around you, cupcake. Whether it made you think is not the measure of whether it was good or not. It was a correct judgement, and that in of itself makes it good.

    Sometimes doing the right thing does not yield good results. Have a Bible study starting up on a prophet who was commanded to prophesize for the following outcome:

    “Go and tell this people:

    “‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding;
    be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’
    Make the heart of this people calloused;
    make their ears dull
    and close their eyes.[a]
    Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
    hear with their ears,
    understand with their hearts,
    and turn and be healed.” ”

    Pintw may have made you think, but now you’re trying to justify yourself by accusing someone else of sin.

  340. Earl, in case you missed it, I already stated how my husband reacted to Cane’s lashing out. He laughed and went straight to condemning Cane’s wife for either not fulfilling him sexually (enough) or not caring about her looks to look in a way that is pleasing to him. He was totally fine with my picture and thought all of the men calling it out were insane. 🙂

    He was actually annoyed that I changed it for ya’ll. I told him how it was (because of Cane’s pointing it out I think) making a huge scene and a mess for JDG and others who suddenly were only looking at it for bad reasons. I meant what I said (up there) that I was wrong, and that if its causing other men to stumble or sin or be distracted, then it needs to change.

    Personal convictions are interesting, my husband likes seeing me in a bikini during the summers – maybe men here wouldn’t be ok with their wives wearing bikinis but mine is. Should I make my gravatar that kind of picture? Definitely no. But the picture I had didn’t bother my husband one bit! He thought it was modest!!!!!

    BUt….. personal convictions take a backseat when other Christians might stumble becasue of them. So that’s why I cropped it (easily changed – complied for the group) for your better interest.

  341. I wouldn’t continue to post here GWTDFT, if you or your husband think we’re insane. Better to seek your attention elsewhere.

  342. earl says:

    Well first thing…this is what should be highlighted:

    ‘But the picture I had didn’t bother my husband one bit! He thought it was modest!!!!’

    Guys that’s the judgement we are going off of (given he did see it and said that).

    ‘ He laughed and went straight to condemning Cane’s wife for either not fulfilling him sexually (enough) or not caring about her looks to look in a way that is pleasing to him.’

    Which is totally out of line. But probably the reaction most guys would make if some other guy comes at their wife. He should just address Cane’s statements and leave the wife out of it.

    ‘Personal convictions are interesting, my husband likes seeing me in a bikini during the summers’

    I’d be concerned if he didn’t like seeing you in revealing clothing. But if it were me I’d want my wife to keep that stuff between us and stay more modest in the outside world.

  343. greyghost says:

    Cane Caldo all
    This is what I meant about showing ones ass

    didn’t get to read the comments really – busy…. But honestly, if its making men stumble or distracting from the point of unity then obviously I was wrong. Dalrock’s place should not have followers fighting amongst themselves – we should be seeking peace – if that means I don’t distract then so be it. Peace is more important

    She thinks she is making the men here fight amongst ourselves based on her presence. It is really something to watch. There are other comments with basically the same theme. She is off balance and falling to her feelings where as before she was an agreeable commenter until IBB tossed out that bone. She let her hair down and posted up some cleavage.
    This is a female in male spaces. Sooner or later she will be herself. This is a good lesson for her and for men here. This is female nature and it is normal.

  344. greyghost says:

    Earl
    The way a man handles his wife is not to confront so commenter but to let the wife know she is in a male space. The men here are not like the supplicants she deals with daily. (including him) I wouldn’t have her posting up pictures of herself on a manosphere blog anyway. That is how a husband leads his wife. He makes sure she fully enjoys the consequences of her actions and teaches her the actions that bring more pleasant consequences. Rebuilding the mound, and being agreeable is not a good idea.

  345. @greyghost “I wouldn’t have her posting up pictures of herself on a manosphere blog anyway. That is how a husband leads his wife.”

    Nope. That’s how a beta husband would lead his wife – demanding she regulate her hypergamy for him. An alpha husband knows his wife will self-regulate based on her feedback (her genuinely not wanting other men to be tempted and so changing) – anything else on his part is “negotiated” and not genuine controlling of her hypergamy… and not coming from her own desire to be true to him and him alone. If he has to demand his wife do something, then by default, he’s out of control and operating in her frame of things. This isn’t the case with us…. I ask him if its ok and he gives the answer. That is how an alpha leads his wife, she goes to him to ask if its ok.. not him catching her in something and demanding her regulate her hypergamy.

    A lot of Christian men probably can’t get the HBs in bikinis to be truthful… but for the ones that do, telling her not to wear them misses the whole point.

  346. earl says:

    ‘The way a man handles his wife is not to confront so commenter but to let the wife know she is in a male space. ‘

    Yes women should be aware in male spaces they will hear things they don’t want to hear. If they want pleasent agreeable conversations about superficial things they have 50,000 girlfriends they can choose from.

    I’d be more of the protect my wife by addressing the man who is attacking her (so she doesn’t make a bigger ass of herself)…and then silently reproove her before she gets way into hot water.

  347. earl says:

    ‘This isn’t the case with us…. I ask him if its ok and he gives the answer.’

    See this isn’t about her…this is about her husband. A man either listens to God or his wife.

  348. greyghost says:

    Ok honey
    First calling yourself Christian “sister of/for Christ” means the hypergamy is under control.
    next (it’s that Christian stuff) we talking about a HUSBAND that means wife that it shouldn’t matter where his relative position in the sexual market place is, your goal is pleasing your man a.k.a. husband.
    Now finally if you were actually with a man that you felt was alpha that pussy would be tingling so bad you would be doing as you were told. In fact he would have you get that work out partner you have and invite her over for a three some that involves all of both of y’alls openings. You would be telling how fun it would be and how your husband finds her attractive with a nice body. Both of you would gather up the kids and have them over her husbands house to babysit so you can please your alpha.
    But nope you have a man that has a hostage in your procession. And he knows better than to tell you to do shit. You must think you are talking to a bunch of women here. A guy that looks the other way while his wife hangs on a mens blog with a photo that looks like a newly singled chicks photo on OKcupid is not alpha. “my husband is such a stud he doesn’t care what I do” “and you women listening to your husbands know those men are beta chumps”
    Earl I hope you are getting this. She has a hostage and look at the behavior. Marriage 2.0

  349. Wow. Just wow. So how about all those less than Alpha husbands out there? I guess they are just SOL because Christianity doesn’t work for everyone? Yeah, not a sister of mine, sorry.

  350. Put another way, this is a new generation of man-up messaging:

    That’s how a beta husband would lead his wife – demanding she regulate her hypergamy for him.

    So was Jesus a beta for demanding that the woman at the well go and sin no more? What a beta, huh? His wife must have been horrible looking, oh wait…..

  351. Good catch greyghost, here again I am probably mistaking a woman mistaking pedestalizing behavior with being an Alpha. If he actually stood up to her she would insist that it was beta behavior and shit test him until he caved (confirming her deeply held suspicions).

  352. Scott says:

    Yep, the lecture about how alphas lead their wives, etc was where she went off the rails for me.

    Women talk to their girlfriends like that. It’s just bizarre here.

  353. Jesus wasn’t a supplicating beta, nor was he so without control that He had to resort to ultimatums to get people to behave. Go and sin and no more, was not an ultimatum, He was capable of inspiring people to regulate themselves. Women and men wanted to do good – to be their best – around Him. The ones that truly loved Him, wanted to do right by Him. He was always always in frame. He is God and the perfection of masculinity and strength that women would want to be near, and many women changed because of His way of being.

    You know very well that Christian women marry beta men that they aren’t attracted to enough to obey (really obey… on their own obey). If the beta husband is operating in her frame of control, or out of desperation, demanding she obey him, he’s already lost the game. She should WANT to obey him. I’m not trying to paint an unrealistic picture for you that all women should obey their husbands no matter how beta they are, I wish they would obey their husbands, it is the Christian woman thing to do definitely! I think men are owed respect in their marriage, beta or not, but I also see realistically that a lot of Christian women (because of marrying someone they genuinely DON’T want to obey because of their hypergamy) will cheat on their husbands or eventually blow up their family. Men should learn game, read Rollo’s stuff, operate in their own frame. It’s entirely Christian… its probably unChristian to be a beta man living for Eve.

    lol greyghost… he tells me to do things all the time, we’re married! A husband does not have to have a harem or be promiscuous to be alpha. Its crazy how you don’t even get game.

  354. earl says:

    ‘Earl I hope you are getting this. She has a hostage and look at the behavior.’

    There’s nothing more laughable than when a woman tries to tell us what male behavior should be like. That’s like me telling her what to expect during the third trimster of pregnancy.

  355. greyghost says:

    You know very well that Christian women marry beta men that they aren’t attracted to enough to obey

    Those are not Christian women. Those women are just bitches you stick your penis in for sport. They later become single moms due to frivorce from ignorant men that actually think he is marrying a Christian woman. Single moms are purely for pump and dump.
    BTW when you become a wife it is no longer about the pussy tingle you do things out of the duty and obligation of the title of wife. Doesn’t matter who the hell the man is.

    A husband does not have to have a harem or be promiscuous to be alpha

    An alpha is a man women are sexually attracted to period. That comment above has nothing to do with anything.

  356. earl says:

    ‘Men should learn game, read Rollo’s stuff, operate in their own frame. It’s entirely Christian… its probably unChristian to be a beta man living for Eve.’

    How is a man operating in their frame Christian? A Christian man is supposed to be operating in God’s frame.

  357. “There’s nothing more laughable than when a woman tries to tell us what male behavior should be like”

    I’m only repeating what Rollo would tell you… or Deti… or probably Dalrock (who has a tab for Game on his site and condones exactly what Rollo has said before – supports Rollo’s books etc.). Just because I’m a woman doesn’t mean I understand exactly what Rollo is saying about alpha men and their wives (his own wife even).

    It is really sad that ya’ll don’t understand it – or even want to. Just want to live in fairyland where Christian women regularly marry beta men they aren’t attracted to and therefore have no motivation to make their marriages really work or motivation to please their husbands. I thought the commenters here at Dalrock’s site didn’t live in that fairyland. I thought ya’ll actually understood masculinity.

  358. Go and sin and no more, was not an ultimatum, He was capable of inspiring people to regulate themselves. Women and men wanted to do good – to be their best – around Him.

    So in this construction of Christianity sinners are merely people who have not been inspired deeply enough by Jesus. If only Jesus had loved me deeply enough to inspire me I wouldn’t be the horrible sinner I am. The feminist serpent has eaten it’s own tail.

    For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    (Rom 1:18-25)

  359. I am curious, does anyone here think that when God reveals His wrath from heaven that it will be because He is inspiring us or that He is lowering Himself by entering our frame? I don’t.

  360. “If only Jesus had loved me deeply enough to inspire me I wouldn’t be the horrible sinner I am. The feminist serpent has eaten it’s own tail.”

    Not at all! People are responsible for how they respond to Jesus for sure! But the ones who experienced Him (and were open to experiencing Him, not closing their minds/hearts to Him), were definitely inspired.

    Some of the greatest testimonies were of people who experienced Him in some way, and changed – all because of being inspired.

  361. TULIP Calvinist Feminism.

  362. JDG says:

    I told him how it was (because of Cane’s pointing it out I think) making a huge scene and a mess for JDG and others who suddenly were only looking at it for bad reasons.

    Rest assured I looked away as soon as I realized it was your boobies that drew me there. Thank you for removing yet one more object of temptation from my life.

  363. JDG says:

    Personal convictions are interesting, my husband likes seeing me in a bikini during the summers

    I love seeing my wife’e body in private. I would hate for other men to see it. That was once a common view. That your husband (a Christian man) doesn’t mind men looking at you in a bikini is alarming.

  364. JDG says:

    A lot of Christian men probably can’t get the HBs in bikinis to be truthful… but for the ones that do, telling her not to wear them misses the whole point.

    A Christian man has the God given responsibility to sanctify, cleanse, and make his wife presentable. He does not have a responsibility to measure up to someone’s standard for the Greek alphabet as it pertains to ranking the pecking order for men.

    Telling her not to wear immodest clothing is part of the job.

  365. Alright, I give up. The lady has gone off the deep end. The more she talks the more she is showing her colors. It’s like pop psycology Jesus mixed in with a little manosphere sage wisdom. It’s about obedience folks-both men and women- when you are obedient to God you are masculine if you are a man and feminine if you are a woman. If I hear the word game one more time tonight I will lose my freakin’ mind. GWTDFT- stop reading so many blogs and open the Book. And for the sake of the Kingdom, learn how to learn in all quietness and submission. ShuHoRespectfully & In Christ-

  366. Respectfully & In Christ-

    Don’t know where the ShuHo came from

  367. bradford says:

    Following this thread for the last 24 hrs has truly been an eye opening learning experience for me. Thank you Cane.

  368. Cane Caldo says:

    @Bradford

    My pleasure.

    @PitW

    The lady has gone off the deep end.

    She was already there, and she wasn’t trying to hide it. The profile she chose (name, pic, etc.) said so. I didn’t make it up. I just chose to see what she was showing. When I said that she had the appearance of a woman one mimosa from tripping over her heels and falling on a strange man: I meant it! Her correspondence with GIL (who was excellent) proved it when she admitted that an “inspirational experience” (by which she means an emotional high) was central to her decision-making process. Well what happens when the decision-making process is inhibited by one drink too many while around a man to whom she is very attracted? She’ll be so inspired that it must be true love!

    It is a recognizable pattern if we are willing to believe what we see.

    I especially liked how she said ultimatums are unmanly, but maintains that wives should obey their husbands. As an ultimatum is nothing but a command with a consequence what she is really saying is that there should be no consequences for disobedience. Which means that the husbands commands are really only suggestions to the wife. Which means that a wife can disregard them if she wants, and that the specter of a consequence is really a kind of abuse; especially when uttered by husbands who are found to be unattractive by the wife… You get the picture. These are things GIL, JDG and others called out straight away; I’m just collating them into one string of thought.

    Otherwise, she’s just a liar and desperately confused. She quoted James 3 at length as a rebuke of me, when it is the very medicine she needs! It’s a lie that I envy her, and it’s a lie to say that I write out of selfish ambition. I did write out of love, but for the men here. This appears to confuse her as she doesn’t seem to be able to grasp that while she was my subject, my object was the male commenters. Perhaps the concept of charity for people who are not her is a bridge too far for her to cross.

    @Earl

    I see no reason to believe anything she has said about her husband; what she told him, what was said about my wife, how he supposedly behaves, that he even knows how she spends her time…none of it. She dresses herself in the guise of a trollop and spits falsehoods one after another. Her witness is completely unreliable.

    @Greyghost

    You have her number.

  369. David J. says:

    RE GWADFT, her Gravatar profile includes this: “I love encouraging people, and believe in humanity’s overall goodness.” She does not understand the first thing about men or women (or the Bible or Christianity) if she believes any of us are fundamentally good. No wonder then that her description of Jesus’ work is so awful and weak. Jesus didn’t come to “inspire” us; He came to show us our sinfulness and to be our substitute and our Savior, to accomplish things for us that we could never accomplish for ourselves, regardless of how “inspired” we get. If she attends a Bible-believing church, her pastor (unless he’s an idiot) would be wincing and groaning at her distortion of Biblical truth.

  370. He is God and the perfection of masculinity and strength that women would want to be near, and many women changed because of His way of being.

    You must have missed this part:

    Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
    (Isa 53:1-8)

  371. “She dresses herself in the guise of a trollop and spits falsehoods one after another. Her witness is completely unreliable.”

    This was your motivation, Cane, trying to somehow “prove” that I’m fake? Your sinful and random initial attack was because you wanted to bait me, offend me to the degree that you knew I’d be sorely tempted to defend myself to you. My husband read all of this correspondence finally (poor man, after an entire afternoon of Police work where he deals with assholes like you all day). He has incredible intuition and intellect, and showed me how evil you truly are in how your entire motivation was to offend me to the degree that you could try to get me to sin for your selfish motivations of proving that I’m not a “Dream Girl.” (I hadn’t seen it that way, I naively thought you really were offended by my picture). You say you did it out of love for the men here… no… it was purely evil and selfish ambition & diabolical. You are supposed to love your neighbor. I am also your neighbor just as much as any man here, unless you don’t believe God’s word (which you’ve shown you don’t). Someone who baits another believer like that is probably in danger of going to hell – it is what Satan did to Jesus hoping that He’d sin, all for Satan’s benefit – regardless of how you think it was good for men to see you do it, that is exactly what you did.

    Either way, my husband definitely thought I was wrong to engage you, and now when I comment in the future (oh yes, I’m not leaving as that was your sole purpose to try to get me to leave – your evil purpose will not win), I will ignore everything you (or anyone else interested in attacking me personally) says.

    Your entire motive was pure… purely evil in intention to use me as a pawn to prove your selfish ambition of “helping” these men. Disgusting.

  372. BradA says:

    I was tempted to jump into this debate, but I just want to note 2 things:

    GirlWith, your photo does sensualize you, even the one you have now. I am glad I missed the previous one (at least I think I did).

    I do wish you had a shorter name as I don’t like abbreviating that much and yours is far too long.

    Cane, you can be more than a bit obnoxious at times! Though that has already been brought up.

    ====

    I do find it quite ironic that I get labeled as a white night frequently here, yet my wife thinks (at times) that I am far too strong. She may be more prone to being a churchian than I, but she has noticed many of the things I have pointed out in the various churches where we have gone and on the Christian stations she used to listen to far more.

    PitW, some here are extremely strong against any dissent and will slaughter those who are not strong enough in their eyes. That may be appropriate at times, but it seems to get too strong much too quickly at times.

    ====

    I used to be convicted that a wife should not show much of anything in public, but I am much more relaxed about some of that now. Is it wrong for a women to dress in a way that it is clear she is a woman? (Showing chest contours would be an example.) I think the modern flaunting can get very bad quite quickly, but I am not sure it is always wrong.

    Not sure how that would fit in a Dalrock post, but it could be worth discussing.

  373. BradA says:

    That should have said “white knight”.

  374. @BradA “Cane, you can be more than a bit obnoxious at times!”

    He was more than obnoxious… even PreachingInTheWilderness called him out on being way more offensive and using more vitriol than he’d ever seen Cane act. Now I understand why, he was not “obnoxious” … his intentions in using me and trying to bait me by being so offensive were evil. To call it anything less is wrong.

  375. Isaiah 5:20

    And I may add, woe to the modern day Carrie Nation.

  376. earl says:

    ‘I’m only repeating what Rollo would tell you… or Deti… or probably Dalrock’

    You are repeating what those guys would tell us because you are the type of woman who needs that stuff to be motivated in a marriage.

    I know there are some women who are motivated by Christ and his teachings and it’s not living in a fairyland that they are seeking men who are also motivated by Him. I’d prefer a woman who goes off the teachings of Christ and the Bible…she will be plenty motivated.

  377. Novaseeker says:

    I used to be convicted that a wife should not show much of anything in public, but I am much more relaxed about some of that now. Is it wrong for a women to dress in a way that it is clear she is a woman? (Showing chest contours would be an example.) I think the modern flaunting can get very bad quite quickly, but I am not sure it is always wrong.

    It’s a question of degree and motivation, I think. I don’t think there’s any expectation that married women have to be dressed in a burqa, for example. At the same time, one has to question why so many women need so many eyeballs on them to feel well, and whether that is a good thing to be encouraged or a bad thing to be discouraged, in married women in particular, of course, but not only in married women. We’ve become very used to the idea that women need male visual sexual attention (from men in general, not just their husbands/BFs/etc.) to feel good about themselves, and so it has come to be widely accepted that women dress in ways that get those eyeballs — if anyone raises an issue, it’s dismissed as misogyny or it’s explained that women dress this way for other women and not to get male eyeballs looking at them. That’s something which is barely even a half truth — yes, women do compete with other women sartorially, and dress to compete with other women, but a key part of that competition is attractiveness to men, which means male eyeballs, and, frankly, when women are in their more honest moments they tend to admit not liking it when they realize that male eyeballs — you know, the ones they weren’t dressing for all along — are no longer on them, and they feel “invisible”. And then they go odd and write stories on the Daily Mail about how men are all so superficial — precisely because the eyeballs that they weren’t dressing to attract are no longer on them. Mmmhmm. Yep.

    So, yes, it’s a question of degree and motivation.

  378. Anchorman says:

    I’d like to thank Cane for doing what he did.

    I have no issue with his actions. Even if you don’t like the manner in which he pursued it, he did the service of letting the veil slip and seeing exactly what was underneath.

    Nope. That’s how a beta husband would lead his wife – demanding she regulate her hypergamy for him. An alpha husband knows his wife will self-regulate based on her feedback (her genuinely not wanting other men to be tempted and so changing) – anything else on his part is “negotiated” and not genuine controlling of her hypergamy

    So glad a gal is telling us how to be men, especially when it conveniently follows a model that allows her to splash cleavage.

    It has nothing to do with what you suggested, Girl. To put it in perspective (as I’m sure someone did, but I stopped reading the exchanges), if Christ were your husband, he’d never allow those photos to go public.

    If he has to demand his wife do something, then by default, he’s out of control and operating in her frame of things.

    I’ll let God know that His Church is in NO position to tell women goddesses what to do, though I think He’s heard that song before…much earlier in our existence.

    A lot of Christian men probably can’t get the HBs in bikinis to be truthful… but for the ones that do, telling her not to wear them misses the whole point.

    Oh, Feminism, who art in bikinis, hallowed be thine name.

  379. Anchorman says:

    I think, like others, it’s time to start skipping Girl’s responses.

    She’s got her tingles from the attention.

  380. earl says:

    My father demanded things of me when I was a child. We he out of control and operating in my frame?

  381. earl says:

    ‘I think, like others, it’s time to start skipping Girl’s responses.’

    Hopefully guys learned that behind every attention seeking woman is a man letting her do it.

  382. I understand why, he was not “obnoxious” … his intentions in using me and trying to bait me by being so offensive were evil. To call it anything less is wrong.

    Annnnnd, you lost me. He had a very good reason for doing what he was doing and why he was doing it. The intentions were quite clearly not evil.

    You are in absurd denial right now. Breathe. Think. Apologize.

    And you shouldn’t wait for Cane to do it first, either, or whine that I’m not calling out Cane. That’s not how apologies work. That’s just a way for you to avoid admitting that you were and are wrong.

  383. Dalrock says:

    @girlwithadragonflytattoo

    “There’s nothing more laughable than when a woman tries to tell us what male behavior should be like”

    I’m only repeating what Rollo would tell you… or Deti… or probably Dalrock (who has a tab for Game on his site and condones exactly what Rollo has said before – supports Rollo’s books etc.). Just because I’m a woman doesn’t mean I understand exactly what Rollo is saying about alpha men and their wives (his own wife even).

    Nonsense. This idea that it is “Beta” (in a bad way) for a husband to tell his wife to knock off the attention seeking is something I corrected here. More recently Vox called out exactly what you did upthread in his post Shameless Rhetoric.

    A lot of Christian men probably can’t get the HBs in bikinis to be truthful… but for the ones that do, telling her not to wear them misses the whole point.

    Here you mix the same nonsense with “Don’t cha wish your girlfriend (wife) was hot like me!” While lecturing the husbands on this board that it is beta to curb a wife’s quest for male attention unless she asks for his opinion, you demonstrate that your husband really needs to be doing this with his own wife. From a Game perspective this is a fitness test, but only your husband can truly pass it. Cane called you on it, and instead of knocking it off you cranked up the volume. You have no idea how attractive our wives are. If you did, you wouldn’t be implying you are prettier than they are.

  384. No Dalrock… it was not about “attention seeking.” I just wanted to comment on the article. Cane attacked me viciously so that he could get the response he wanted (a negative response because I needed to defend myself) to try to prove to men here that you shouldn’t let women comment – or talk to women who comment, to try to destroy me. The fact that Cane has admitted what his intent and motivation was, serves to reveal how evil it truly was – I just for some reason didn’t read it right. I tried to do the right thing, admitted I was wrong if it was making men stumble (personal freedom and personal conviction shouldn’t cause another believer to stumble), I listened to PreachingInTheWilderness even though we both (my husband and I) thought that picture had no actual cleavage. I cropped the picture…. My motive was to not make people stumble, and my actions proved that, I even went as far as to admit that it was wrong in this circumstance. Cane’s motive, like he stated several times, was to try to make me stumble, to not care at all how his words or how his attack would “better me” or “help me” in any way. He did it in such a way that he would win and I would appear awful. My husband was completely right about his analysis of Cane’s behavior.

  385. This was what he said his motive was if you need a refresher :
    “Fundamental Element 2: Many men found the Men’s Sphere because their M.O. has been to pedestalize women, and they discovered this fact about themselves. Because so many men especially in the Men’s Sphere are greedy to see a “good woman” who they also think is hot, they give her a pass. To them she is the embodiment of The Dream Woman; the angel with a sexy tattoo; the woman who “gets it”. It’s false. They don’t exist, and if they did exist, then they are killed at the moment of observation by the exhibition itself.”

    There is no “Dream Woman” because women are human, and I reacted in a normal human way to being degraded publicly by a vicious man. But I am a woman who “gets it” that’s why I like to read your posts, even if the comments are hard to read at times. Women who are beautiful and also “get it” do exist – but for Cane, he had to “kill” my participation on this site to suit his motive. That (I’m sorry) does reek of him not having a “beautiful wife who gets it,” because he says they don’t exist.

  386. If you want help “Girl”, I would recommend a site concerning wifely submission.

  387. I submit to my husband, but I do not submit to a vicious cowardly man who in his own words, was an asshole to me, “jerked me around” etc. There comes a time when a woman does have to defend herself because of having self dignity.

  388. Sarah's Daughter says:

    Either way, my husband definitely thought I was wrong to engage you

    Yet you can’t move past it. Red flag for your husband.

    It’s a consequence to having ignored Paul’s instruction to women. You have attempted to instruct other men/other heads of households on the Bible and accuse them of sin. This is not your lane. Walking in it has a very predictable outcome that you are demonstrating in spades here. On the odd chance that your husband thinks this is your lane and is encouraging you to preach to the men, there’s a verse for that as well: 1 Peter 3.

  389. Self-dignity? Chapter and verse please.

  390. Isaiah 14:13-15 perhaps?

  391. Scott says:

    SD-

    You kind of hit the part that bugged me about it. Its like a woman comes in here and tries to AMOG all of us. “If you have to demand something from your wife, you are doing it wrong.” (Not alpha enough, because she should be inspired to do it).

  392. Cane Caldo says:

    In case my meaning was opaque to the men here, and lest GwtDT seem reasonable in her assertion that she “gets it”: My statement

    To them she is the embodiment of The Dream Woman; the angel with a sexy tattoo; the woman who “gets it”. It’s false. They don’t exist, and if they did exist, then they are killed at the moment of observation by the exhibition itself.”

    should be taken altogether. By “the woman who gets it” I meant the woman who “gets” and embodies the fantasy men are prone towards; the respectable harlot, or the stripper who only gives herself to true love. That sounds so harsh, but the fact remains that tattoos (trampstamps) and disrobe are the timeless hallmarks of women of ill repute.

    While I’m at it, let me take this moment to put her presence here into a Biblical context

    My son, keep my words
    and treasure up my commandments with you;
    2 keep my commandments and live;
    keep my teaching as the apple of your eye;
    3 bind them on your fingers;
    write them on the tablet of your heart.
    4 Say to wisdom, “You are my sister,”
    and call insight your intimate friend,
    5 to keep you from the forbidden woman,
    from the adulteress with her smooth words.
    6 For at the window of my house
    I have looked out through my lattice,
    7 and I have seen among the simple,
    I have perceived among the youths,
    a young man lacking sense,
    8 passing along the street near her corner,
    taking the road to her house
    9 in the twilight, in the evening,
    at the time of night and darkness.
    10 And behold, the woman meets him,
    dressed as a prostitute, wily of heart.
    11 She is loud and wayward;
    her feet do not stay at home;
    12 now in the street, now in the market,
    and at every corner she lies in wait.
    13 She seizes him and kisses him,
    and with bold face she says to him,
    14 “I had to offer sacrifices,[d]
    and today I have paid my vows;
    15 so now I have come out to meet you,
    to seek you eagerly, and I have found you.
    16 I have spread my couch with coverings,
    colored linens from Egyptian linen;
    17 I have perfumed my bed with myrrh,
    aloes, and cinnamon.
    18 Come, let us take our fill of love till morning;
    let us delight ourselves with love.
    19 For my husband is not at home;
    he has gone on a long journey;
    20 he took a bag of money with him;
    at full moon he will come home.”
    21 With much seductive speech she persuades him;
    with her smooth talk she compels him.
    22 All at once he follows her,
    as an ox goes to the slaughter,
    or as a stag is caught fast[e]
    23 till an arrow pierces its liver;
    as a bird rushes into a snare;
    he does not know that it will cost him his life.
    24 And now, O sons, listen to me,
    and be attentive to the words of my mouth.
    25 Let not your heart turn aside to her ways;
    do not stray into her paths,
    26 for many a victim has she laid low,
    and all her slain are a mighty throng.
    27 Her house is the way to Sheol,
    going down to the chambers of death.

    Is not GwtDT (technologically) out in front of her house calling to the sons of other men to come and see how beautiful she is? Yes she is. Was she dressed in revealing fashion? Yes she is/was. (Not just contours, BradA, but actual cleavage; touched off with a come-hither pout.) Is her husband here? No he is not. Is she not waiting at every corner and turn of conversation to redirect us back to her and how lovely she is? Yes, she is. Is she not loud? Yes she is. Is she not beckoning for all to see her? Yes she is. Has she not mentioned several times that she is determined to show off her beautiful life and home to strangers like they are couches covered in Egyptian cloth? Yes she has.

    Was the author a Proverbs a cruel and evil man for pointing her out and warning other men about her? No, he was not. Though, I do not say she is a material adulteress. The Internet enables a sort of light dabbling which may never materialize. It’s still wrong.

    And notice, men, how she wields PitW’s comments, and is emboldened by BradA’s attempt at “evenhandedness”. You will see this again in the real world; over and over. Don’t be that guy who hands her a weapon of words with which she is going to further batter herself with wild tantrums. She cannot resist the temptation, and you do a disservice to her husband. We show more respect for him by leaving her no cover than we do by offering her our defense. It may very well prove that PitW’s comments did great damage to GwtDT’s husband’s influence over her, and he wouldn’t even know it. When, one day, her husband puts his foot down, she may reflect that there are men out there who “understand her”, and who speak to her in the manner she prefers. So why should she listen to her husband? As I said: Don’t be that guy.

    Nor should you be dissuaded from truth by the woman who reveals herself as intemperate in word and visage when she rails that you tempted her. It is not possible to unclothe the naked. What some have called being an asshole is me leaving no room for doubt that I am against what she is doing; that she will find no succor from me. I don’t want her favor, I don’t want her acceptance, and I want that to be crystal clear to everyone. This way when she lies that I caused her to stumble (as the intemperate woman ALWAYS will), I am free of that charge. I did not beckon. I did not lure. From the beginning it was clear that seeking to win me over (or to win over me) was a fool’s errand. With foolish and haughty women the only way to get them to turn towards their husbands is to give them no shelter, or cover, or pity. And it was clear that I meant to get this lost and burdened ass moving along; which is my duty to my neighbor, her husband.

  393. thedeti says:

    “I submit to my husband, but I do not submit to a vicious cowardly man who in his own words, was an asshole to me, “jerked me around” etc.”

    No one is telling you to submit to any man other than your husband, and in fact you should not. Rather, what you were being told is to know and accept your proper role, which does not include instructing men on Biblical matters or accusing them of sin.

    “There comes a time when a woman does have to defend herself because of having self dignity.”

    Respectfully, had you remained within your proper role, your self dignity wouldn’t have required any defense.

  394. Sarah's Daughter says:

    Always a temptation of women, Scott, to tell all they have learned. So much so that Paul addresses it more than once. I felt comfort in knowing I wasn’t the only one who needed such instruction when I finally submitted to it (knowing women in Paul’s time were rebellious loud mouths as well). It’s hard to see it as rebellion, especially confusing is the egalitarian interpretation of Matthew 18:15 (Sheila Gregoire’s favorite for condemning husbands’ porn usage). It’s even harder to be admonished with it – we’ll see if the girl who “gets it” actually does…

  395. @Cane and Deti, I have new insight into why Paul wrote Corinthians 14. For that I am immensely grateful.

  396. “Respectfully, had you remained within your proper role, your self dignity wouldn’t have required any defense.”

    Total loss of respect for you Deti. He accused and attacked me without provocation, I was not out of “my role.” He took pleasure in doing what he viciously did and you know it.

    “There are times, however, when we as human beings do need to rise up and defend ourselves against offenses or improper treatment. I am speaking of times when we have been criticized, insulted, or misjudged too far, to the point of it being damaging to the spirits. There is, or should be, a human dignity in every human being that commands proper treatment and respect. When mistreated too far it is admirable to rise and make a proper defense.”
    -The Fascinating Girl by Helen B. Andelin instruction to Christian women (my own mother’s book handed down to me) written for feminine godly women in 1969

  397. I’ve reread Cane’s post, at least the ones on this thread. I don’t see the exact part where he was being rude and I know how to be rude. Perhaps he called you a ‘bitch’ but that was after you and your husband insulted his wife. He called you out on your pictures here and all you had to say was ‘perhaps you’re right’ and pull the picture down or amend it. Instead, you chose to engage in defiance, use shaming language, call us insane and then level the ultimate game stopper, ‘you’re not man enough if you can’t handle women wearing bikinis’ or some lame equivalent. Never mind that women today do wear bikinis that should be considered darn right disgusting and revealing.

    The real funny aspect to all of this is your complaint that Cane isn’t seeking to stop you from sinning, that he is ‘leading a sister to sin’. The funny part is that is exactly what women in Church do day in and day out by wearing clothes better suited to use between them and their husbands, solely. And what happens when a man points out that such clothing causes men to sin, well, he’s told to shut up and control his urges, that he has no right to tell women what to wear. Which is exactly the path you took when Cane called you out.

  398. Boxer says:

    When, one day, her husband puts his foot down, she may reflect that there are men out there who “understand her”, and who speak to her in the manner she prefers. So why should she listen to her husband? As I said: Don’t be that guy.

    This is one of the most important lessons single dudes (like me) can take out of the Dalrock blog. My life has improved immensely since I adopted it.

    I no longer talk to married women except for the absolute professional necessity. To commiserate or flirt with one (even innocuously) is an insult to my father and grandfather.

    Married chicks can get affirmation and emotional support from other women, and they can get sexual attention by dressing up sexy for their husbands. Anything else is just trouble and headaches.

  399. Cane Caldo says:

    @thedeti

    Respectfully, had you remained within your proper role, your self dignity wouldn’t have required any defense.

    Bingo. Her rejection of proper roles stated by an attention-whoring avatar name and picture. My response was, in fact, a response to her perpetual statement vis-a-vis her avatar. Specifically, I was prompted at her effusive quote that divorce hurts girls more than boys. Though she’d long been showing as a skank: I had enough, and she is a textbook case for dissection; for revealing to the men here the chaos disorderly women cause, but is sometimes hard for them to see.

  400. greyghost says:

    I’m not the most elegant writer but I will say y’all have shown to be Christian men with some sack. Cane we need Christian “assholes” Too bad you lost the Dragon lady’s respect there Deti.
    Here are some Christian men with sack
    http://www.returnofkings.com/58673/how-to-be-masculine-like-the-zaporozhian-cossacks

  401. Boxer says:

    -The Fascinating Girl by Helen B. Andelin instruction to Christian women (my own mother’s book handed down to me) written for feminine godly women in 1969

    For y’all who don’t know, Helen B. Andelin was a Mormon feminist from Deseret.

    I don’t have any problem with any of the sisters who post here, but I wonder why a woman who is in a happy marriage would be posting frequently on dalrock. If you take this blog seriously, then you should be riding your husband’s dick rather than surfing the net. Fuck that mofo until he buckles to his knees. Send the dogs out on that man and then fuck him some more, until he falls off and goes to sleep.

  402. “There are times, however, when we as human beings do need to rise up and defend ourselves against offenses or improper treatment….”

    Yes, but there was a reason he was treating you that way. You seem absolutely hellbent on trying to convince people that Cane is a sadist, that he only did it because he enjoys hurting you. I’ve read Cane for awhile, and you’re wrong. You just are. This isn’t even really a defense of Cane, just a simple observation gleaned from what he’s written.

    Cane made a good point. And you’ve been proving it, repeatedly. You should apologize.

  403. Text-book example of how women tone police Godly men from a “Church”.

  404. @Boxer, ask for a Bible reference get a quote from a feminist.

  405. earl says:

    ‘So why should she listen to her husband? As I said: Don’t be that guy.’

    Yes…the guy who is agreeable with a wife because you get some positive female affirmation at the expense of usurping her husband’s authority. I’ve had a few try to make me ‘that guy’. If she has a husband I tell her ‘talk to your husband about it.’ If she isn’t your responsibility to make decisions for her, don’t be that guy.

  406. earl says:

    @ Cane…when you bring Proverbs into this, I have to say. You nailed it.

  407. Mmhmm says:

    girlwiththedragontattoo’s blog seems to be directed towards women. She has an avatar with her in a tank top. Not the most modest attire but hardly a scandal. Seems fine for the purposes of her blog. I actually laughed outloud at the idea that her avatar is an attempt at seduction. I could be because I saw half a dozen college students wearing leggings as pants while shopping this morning, but I don’t think she’s trying to seduce anyone here. If that’s all it takes for you then there’s probably a speck in your own eye that needs attention. Should she have a new avatar for posting here? Seems silly.

  408. Not “seduction”; attention whoring.

  409. Mmhmm says:

    Seduction or attention whoring, either way it is laughable. It’s a tank top.

  410. Anchorman says:

    If that’s all it takes for you then there’s probably a speck in your own eye that needs attention.

    There it is.

    You can spot women a mile away when they break out the “Don’t you dare judge her!”

    Gotta leave that wiggle room so you can get away with a little bit, too.

    Honestly, if someone I knew told me I’m sinning, my first reaction isn’t, “You are too!” I take a step back and ask myself simple questions:

    Do my actions proceed from faith? Do they bring glory to God?

    Girl and Mmhmm are so wrapped up in leaving feminist wiggle room that they want to turn it on others immediately and charge them with not bringing glory to God instead of noticing the log in their eye(s).

  411. Anchorman says:

    Who was that liberal (I think lawyer) atheist chick from years ago? Had a strange moniker.

    I think it made a play on the word “whore,” but can’t be sure.

    Remember, she had the husband who allowed her to have an open marriage or something? That’s who Mmhmm reminds me of.

  412. Luke says:

    Mmhmm says:
    March 25, 2015 at 12:56 pm
    “girlwiththedragontattoo’s… blog seems to be directed towards women. She has an avatar with her in a tank top. Not the most modest attire but hardly a scandal….

    Should she have a new avatar for posting here?”

    How about she has NO avatar for posting here, unless it’s a modest one.
    (That, or she could conceivably post a link to a nude one, so the men here can REALLY critique her, make bets on how long til she smashes facefirst into the Wall, etc.).

  413. Mmhmm says:

    What does feminism have to do with this? People are having meltdowns because someone is wearing a tank top in their avatar. It’s not like she posted a pic of herself burning her bra. I don’t need wiggle room on this “issue”. I didn’t even bother to make an account or post a pic. I wanted to talk about Laura Lifshitz and got distracted by you all being distracted by a tank top. Now I’m wondering how some of you manage in real life.

  414. Anchorman says:

    Now I’m wondering how some of you manage in real life.

    That won’t work here.

  415. Anchorman says:

    How about she has NO avatar for posting here, unless it’s a modest one.

    Luke,
    She’s leading you down a rabbit hole.

    Your answer indicates the real problem is the reaction of men.

    It’s not. It’s her intent with the original avatar(s).

    What Mmhmm did was blame shift so she can accuse you of not being in control.

    It’s not about women practicing modesty or being accountable. It’s men who screw it up, for Mmhmm.

  416. Anchorman says:

    And that, Mmhmm, is why this is about feminism.

    Zero accountability for women. Unfettered ability to flout any social or cultural convention (for women). And if anyone criticizes, blame men.

  417. What purpose would a woman have posting a picture of herself on a blog to which men are the majority of viewers and commentators? To change said picture multiple times within a short window.

    MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

    If you wanted to talk about Laura Lifeshitz, you can simply talk about her, no one is stopping you. Please don’t post a pic though. Thanks.

  418. Mmhmm says:

    @ Luke

    Maybe I’m unclear on how it works, but I thought that if you created an avatar you used the same one in all of WordPress. Which would mean that you are asking her to either

    1. create a special avatar for this blog which means that she’d have change the info in the box every time she posted elsewhere.

    2. not have an avatar pic. (Silly because she has a lifestyle blog and those are usually personal with pics)

    3. Cover up a bit.

    She cropped her pic, essentially choosing #3. But you all still seem outraged. It’s silly and you know it. It’s a tank top. Get over it.

  419. Seduction or attention whoring, either way it is laughable. It’s a tank top.

    Mmhmm. If it was just the tank top and not the pages of further attention whoring and White Knight posse formation I might concede the point. You are either unintelligent or have no problem insulting OUR intelligence. Either way I’m done conversing with you.

  420. JDG says:

    Seduction or attention whoring, either way it is laughable. It’s a tank top.

    It’s inappropriate attire for a Bible believing Christian woman to wear in public. What is laughable is that people are fine with selected morals borrowed from the Bible concerning things they agree with while at the same time denying or ignoring it’s validity concerning standards they disagree with. Why is it that when ever I read a post from Mmhmm I am reminded of all those women who have never made a sammich for a man.

  421. Sarah's Daughter says:

    You are either unintelligent…

    Very much so, evidenced by her blithering use of hyperbole.

  422. @Sarah’s Daughter, I should have said “You are unintelligent and possibly have no problem insulting OUR intelligence (based on how unintelligent you actually are)”. Thanks for the input.

  423. Cane Caldo says:

    Upthread I mentioned a resultant chaos caused by disorderly women, the source of which often goes unseen. You can see it now.

    @Dalrock

    Thank you for forbearing my comments.

  424. At the risk of being called “that man” or a “white knight” I’m going to double down that Cane did not handle this biblically. I do not deny he was right about Tat Girl, I missed the evidence before, a blind man can see it now (although some of this fault lies with her husband…yeah I know that is going to piss a few off…he needs to get a handle on that).

    With that said, he was still an asshole. He could have been firm, powerful & untimid without being an asshole. For one thing the only reason his teaching moment came to fruition was because I wrote what I wrote. So he is either a prophet or he’s very lucky. And while teaching men not to give the attention and praise to such a woman- he also taught the same men how NOT to talk to women in a way that our churches can be taken back or in a Christ like way.

    Christ was firm. We have a few instances of Him calling out both men & women in their sin- and He never went to Cane’s lengths. He was blunt,, He was to the point, He condemned, He was firm, He made folks uncomfortable, He challenged, He sought repentence and He reminded folks on a coming judgement even unto eternal death & hell- but He never went off like Cane did.

    If most men go home and speak to their wives and the women in their church like Cane did, they will be divorced and have no women in the church. Yes, some of that will be on the women. But we are called to care about our brothers and sisters in Christ (Cane was wrong about this- he should care about her while still caring about his brothers) & handle ourselves in a way Christ would of handled this, or Paul.

    Cane got very fortunate in the way this turned out for the ten men who have commented. But his method is not the biblical way of handling it, nor is going to work in real life or in your church. I’m not interested in winning a pissing match on the internet. I’m interested in turning the ship of the church and the marriages within the church around. And while I respect Cane, he taught men more harmful teaching than helpful teaching. Although there was a mix sprinkled together.

  425. AT all

    Ok… it is cropped, I admitted I was wrong. I’m sorry I harped so much on Cane’s response – hearing my husband go off on it last night just reopened the wounds.

    Mmmhmm is right about my gravatar being based on my blog and my “handle” is my blog name. Was it stupid and naiive to post a picture with the slightest shadow of cleavage? Yes. Don’t argue about it anymore, I think I just got enraged at what Cane was really trying to do, but I forgive him. I won’t post again.

  426. greyghost says:

    MMhmm
    Playing dumb huh? Her comments are what brought attention to herself. Lets not mention that. I never noticed the avatar until she started talking the crap. Kinda like what you are doing.

  427. Mmhmm says:

    Mmhmm. If it was just the tank top and not the pages of further attention whoring and White Knight posse formation I might concede the point. You are either unintelligent or have no problem insulting OUR intelligence. Either way I’m done conversing with you.

    When attacked she tried to defend herself and asked others to take her side. Normal enough behavior. If it is white knight posse formation when women do it then what is it when men do it? She said that she agreed with the posters here on many issues. Is that attention whoring as well?

    Sarah’s Daughter is all but begging for attention. No pic though. Maybe a picture wouldn’t help her? She’s clearly looking for approval from men online so I’m guessing that she’s either single or married and fat and so online attention is the only male attention she’s going to get.

    @cane Caldo

    Upthread I mentioned a resultant chaos caused by disorderly women, the source of which often goes unseen. You can see it now.

    Are you a woman? This thread went off track when you started freaking out about a tank top and tattoo. You are the source of the “chaos”.

  428. @pitw have no women in the church

    This is a trend I could bear with for the foreseeable future.

    Jesus called the established religious order (correlate with the modern Jezebellian “church”) “a generation of vipers” and like their father the Devil, because they lie just like him.

    So he is either a prophet or he’s very lucky.

    It doesn’t take a prophet to figure out the female imperative. It’s relatively simple when you bother to start to look.

    “Luck is the residue of design.“ ~ Branch Rickey

  429. greyghost says:

    MMHmm
    So now you go and call some chick fat now because she doesn’t present herself here sexually. She is trying to be a good woman as you are and she is conversing and learning. She may have kids she is raising like a lot of us do.

  430. Sarah's Daughter says:

    You’ve got me Mmhmm, nailed it. I’m huge and butt ugly! Those biblical truths I write to younger women, it’s all a front for the endless stream of male attention I receive for it, really – they just keep banging down my door. It’s awesome!

  431. @ God is Laughing
    @pitw have no women in the church

    This is a trend I could bear with for the foreseeable future.

    Maybe you could, but God, our churches, our families and our children couldn’t. Pull your head out and realize this is WAY bigger than you or any man here who has been hurt by feminism in & out of the church and the women who have slurped it up.

  432. @Sarah’s Daughter, under feminism a woman who is respectful of ANY man is supplicating and needy. They are an unhappy lot.

  433. pitw, 5 of the 7 Ecclesia in the book of Revelation are warned against being entangled sinfully with feminine spirits. Look to your own.

  434. SirHamster says:

    Girl and Mmhmm are so wrapped up in leaving feminist wiggle room that they want to turn it on others immediately and charge them with not bringing glory to God instead of noticing the log in their eye(s).

    Thanks for pointing out the irony of that accusation. It’s baffling, almost.

  435. Mmhmm says:

    @ Sarah’s Daughter – you are hanging around men cosigning unnecessary attacks on women (for the record I am speaking about girlwithadragontattoo not the Laura Lifshitz business. )in hopes of receiving praise from the men who post here. I don’t know if you are butt ugly, but I’d bet money on fat. And probably at one time promiscuous, back when men would have you. Now that you are a Christian and unattractive you need a new way of seeking out positive male attention. So you piggyback on their attacks on female poster hoping to get some pats on the head. *good dog* Now sit. I’m done talking to you.

  436. Maybe you could, but God, our churches, our families and our children couldn’t.

    Congratulations! You now have a “church” full of tone policing feminists who won’t tolerate the preaching of self-denial via the Cross. Cap’n save a ho, mount up!

  437. greyghost says:

    preachinginthewilderness
    That is the kind of pussy Christian man stuff that got the church to churchianity today. That is also why a Christian label on a woman means nothing. A Christian label on a man doesn’t get respect. That respect came from those that were not Christian also. Now they are as you put it with confidence churchian supplicants. Dragon lady will do just fine in the arms of her Christian husband. Nothing said here other than that righteous post you made will take from that. If you had some game and understood women with out the pussy worship you could understand that.
    Cane is the kind of man Christian need to be. he actually made her relationship with her husband stronger. I think he handled it perfectly. I talk like that to women and young men all of the time.
    The point is you are hugely wrong on this one. If you are going to preach in this world to women you are going to have to understand the nature of women and get past the blue pill nice guy stuff. It looks and feels Christian and righteous but it enables rebellion and evil.

  438. greyghost says:

    God is laughing
    based on mmhmm last to sarah’s daughter looks like you had that called right.

  439. JDG says:

    Anchorman
    Who was that liberal (I think lawyer) atheist chick from years ago? Had a strange moniker.

    I think it made a play on the word “whore,” but can’t be sure.

    Remember, she had the husband who allowed her to have an open marriage or something? That’s who Mmhmm reminds me of.

    I believe her moniker was Doomed Harlot.

  440. Sarah's Daughter says:

    @Mmhmm,
    Sweetie, you have failed miserably on reading comprehension. Go back again, slower this time, you’ll not find one instance of me cosigning or piggybacking an attack on a picture.

    When a list is made of the common traits of women and the way they communicate, you’ll find projection, hyperbole, and other forms of rhetoric – you’ve done quite well.

  441. Dalrock says:

    @Anchorman

    Who was that liberal (I think lawyer) atheist chick from years ago? Had a strange moniker.

    I think it made a play on the word “whore,” but can’t be sure.

    I believe you are referring to Doomed Harlot.

  442. Escoffier says:

    “admitted I was wrong if it was making men stumble”

    This reminds me of D’s post from not long ago about the Christian woman who announced her decision no longer to wear yoga pants outside the home. It wasn’t that she enjoyed the attention but realized that was wrong. It was that men lacked the maturity to avoid noticing her fine ass. She was innocent, but rather than cause men to sin, she would stop, for their sake. It’s sad that fallen male nature required females to curtail their own freedom, but what can you do?

  443. Dalrock says:

    @Mmhmm

    In defense of Laura Lifshitz, it would seem that her husband pushed her to divorce. Her husband treated her with contempt because she failed at providing. Well providing is his job and he was evidently doing a poor job of it. Comments like that indicate that he didn’t value her as a wife, but only as a potential co-provider. It is no surprise that she decided to stop providing wifely services and focus on providing for herself. Had he valued her as a wife instead of resenting having to support her he’d probably still be married.

    I’ve seen quite a few divorces where the husband resented providing and didn’t value homemaking. They end up providing and not getting the homemaking that they belittled during the marriage.

    You are missing the other half of the story that she told on Pop Sugar (and we are all missing his side of the story). I already pointed this out upthread, but it is worth repeating.

    In 1 Mom’s Battle With Princess Culture, she gives more information which provides context for their arguments. While she was letting her husband support her, she also was obsessed with making him do the housework, etc.

    Growing up, I saw my mom do just about everything in the house. She worked, she cleaned, and she managed four kids. My dad, who’s the hardest worker I know, was not involved in these aspects of life like most fathers from that generation. So early on in my little mind, I decided I was not going to be doing a family alone. I was going to expect my partner to share his load of the work. I was not going to be Cinderella, cleaning and sweeping. I was not going to be Ariel, whose sole purpose in life was to sing and snatch some guy she saw for two seconds on a boat. I was going to be an independent woman!

    She also tells us he is a great man and other women should date him. At any rate, I don’t doubt that she divorced because honoring her vows became difficult. But this is the point. She made a sacred vow, and then dumped it when honoring it became difficult. Now she is leveraging the terrible pain her failure to honor her marriage vows is causing her four year old daughter to advance her career.

  444. Anchorman says:

    “Doomed Harlot” That’s it!

    Right down to the nasty undercurrent and the condescending use of “sweetie.”

    Uncanny similarity.

  445. Sarah's Daughter says:

    and the condescending use of “sweetie.”

    That was me responding to a predictable woman’s psychic reading attempt of my SMV and my motivations for commenting here and an accusation of something I provably did not do. I won’t hold my breath for a retraction from her.

  446. Anchorman says:

    Ah. Chalk it up to not reading closely because I’m ready to ditch MmHmm’s comments from my future reading.

  447. Mmhmm says:

    @ Dalrock

    I don’t think that there is anything wrong with asking the husband to do housework. I don’t doubt that her attitude about it needed some work. Obviously there is something seriously wrong with a woman who would share the intimate details of her failed marriage online using her real name so anyone with Google, including her own child, can read it later. Your point about her profiting from her daughter’s pain is an excellent one and I agree.

    Still I think that telling someone that they are less than because they make less money will almost always lead to unhealthy competition in the marriage and divorce. Cleaning up after someone takes on a different, negative connotation under those circumstances and it probably made whatever preconceived notions about housework that she brought into the marriage worse.

    I would love to hear his side of the story, but no one pays men to blog about their divorces so it probably won’t happen.

  448. Dalrock says:

    @Mmhmm

    I don’t think that there is anything wrong with asking the husband to do housework.

    You are all over the map here, with your only consistency being that you are siding with the woman who didn’t honor her marriage vows and used the fact that this greatly harmed her four year old child for attention and profit. Just a few days ago you argued on the very same issue:

    In defense of Laura Lifshitz, it would seem that her husband pushed her to divorce. Her husband treated her with contempt because she failed at providing. Well providing is his job and he was evidently doing a poor job of it.

    I’ve seen quite a few divorces where the husband resented providing and didn’t value homemaking. They end up providing and not getting the homemaking that they belittled during the marriage.

  449. Luke says:

    Mmhmm says:
    March 25, 2015 at 5:57 pm

    “I don’t think that there is anything wrong with asking the husband to do housework.”

    However, the unasked question is what that he’s doing now, should he stop doing, to free up time to do [more] housework? This presumably means that the wife will then have to start doing it (most wives are happy not changing the car’s oil or mowing the lawn in July), or that other people will be paid to do it, reducing the household disposable income. Nothing is for free in this world.

  450. JDG says:

    I don’t think that there is anything wrong with asking the husband to do housework

    Speaks Volumes.

  451. Mulier says:

    During our engagement, my then fiance bought me a tiny shirt with spaghetti straps, much racier than anything I owned. I would wear it sometimes when we went out in those months, and I was torn. I was happy at his obvious pleasure in looking at me in the shirt, but I was a little dismayed that he didn’t mind putting me on display.

    Two weeks after we got married, I put that shirt on before we went out, and he asked me what on earth I was thinking, leaving the house looking like that. I was so delighted by this newfound possessiveness.

    It’s very nice to feel that your husband appreciates your looks, but it’s even nicer to feel that he doesn’t want to share.

  452. The real question is whether a feminist thinks it is wrong for a husband to ask his wife to do housework. Even if she is a SAHM and he is working a 80 hour week.

  453. Boxer says:

    Any husband who does housework is better off just being a bachelor. I do all the housework in my house, and I get sex when I want it and don’t have to put up with any woman longer than I feel necessary. If housework is so hard and brutal, how can I manage it in two hours a week?

  454. But, but, but……To Love, Honor and Vacuum!? Isn’t that really more valuable than all of the “obeying” nonsense? Guys?……….Guys?

  455. JDG says:

    If housework is so hard and brutal, how can I manage it in two hours a week?

    IMO when a woman wants a man to do house work it really is testing the boundaries or worse, a control issue (she wants to be in control).

  456. Farm Boy says:

    I would love to hear his side of the story, but no one pays men to blog about their divorces so it probably won’t happen.

    This fact is telling, I would say.

  457. Farm Boy says:

    (she wants to be in control)

    And she probably doesn’t want to make sammiches either.

  458. Mmhmm says:

    @Dalrock-

    I’m not siding with anyone. Didn’t realize that I had to pick a team! LL indicated in one of her posts that he resented supporting her. She also said that she appreciated him and his contributions while he did not appreciate her housework and childcare. In her quote about housework she mentioned that her mother worked AND did all of the housework and childcare and that she didn’t want that for herself. (And really who can blame her. Sounds miserable.) It seems that she did the housework while she wasn’t working.

    @ Luke

    Changing car oil is every 3 months or so? Walmart does it for cheap too. Grass needs to be mowed once a week in the summer and not at all in the winter. Housework is daily and can be a lot of work if there are children involved. Childcare, especially of little ones is no small amount of work.

    I see from the comments that there are a lot of men who don’t appreciate housekeeping and childcare, which is their prerogative, but unappreciated wives who are resented and treated with contempt over money tend to react like Laura Lifshitz. It may not be right, but it is predictable. LL could have saved her marriage, by sucking it up and keeping her vow, but her husband probably could’ve saved it too.

  459. JDG says:

    And she probably doesn’t want to make sammiches either.

    Exactly my point. It's as if she's not even there only worse.

    Queue Bill Withers:

    Ain't no sammich when she's gone
    Breads not warm when she's away
    Ain't no sammich when she's gone
    And the sammich takes too long
    Anytime she goes astray

    She sits around when she's home
    Say's it's time for her to play
    Ain't no sammich when she's gone
    And no sammich when she's home
    Anytime she goes astray

    And I know, I know, I know, I know…

  460. JDG says:

    Dalrock I made a mess of it. Could you change the ? for a > in the 1st line. I’d appreciate it.

  461. Farm Boy says:

    I see from the comments that there are a lot of men who don’t appreciate housekeeping and childcare

    I think that you misread. Men typically appreciate good childcare very much. They also know from experience that housework is not as difficult as it is made out to be.

  462. HawkandRock says:

    Cane calls a duck a duck and he is “vicious” and “evil” and “the kind of asshole” that the police deal with every day — in other words, he’s a criminal.

    Good gravy!!

    Sure the hysteria is funny until it dawns on you that this is a mere glimpse of the end game when Hillary (or one of her clones) gets control of internet?

    Then your blood should run cold…

  463. Anchorman says:

    LL could have saved her marriage, by sucking it up and keeping her vow, but her husband probably could’ve saved it too.

    There’s nothing more LL could’ve done! All that was left was to suffer in silence and honor a vow made.

    It was the husband who could’ve actually saved the marriage …according to one obviously biased account. Notice, it wasn’t suggested that the only things left for him to do was to suck it up and keep his vow – no, there’s more on the table that he needed to do.

    Men keep screwing up feminism by not sucking it up while doing his part in a marriage and just letting women do what they want without comment or expectation.

    Dangit, men! Know your place.

  464. earl says:

    ‘If housework is so hard and brutal, how can I manage it in two hours a week?’

    Granted it takes me about that much time too…but I live alone, in a smaller apartment with not a lot of stuff, and I don’t have little kids who like to make messes.

    Throw those things into the picture and it is probably a little more work…but it isn’t the back breaking type labor I’ve done before in other jobs.

  465. Luke says:

    How husbands actually contribute MORE hours to the household than do wives, when paid job hours and outside work are factored in:

    http://www.glennsacks.com/column.php?id=67

    So, actually, WIVES need to start doing more, not husbands.

  466. Throw those things into the picture and it is probably a little more work…but it isn’t the back breaking type labor I’ve done before in other jobs.

    Right. My great-grandmothers managed to do it, even though:

    – They had to pump their water from a well outside and carry it into the house, where they heated it on a wood stove for bathing and cleaning.
    – They cooked everything from scratch.
    – They grew, harvested, slaughtered, and preserved most of their own food (husbands did some of that)..
    – Their cleaning supplies consisted of a few basics like vinegar and bleach.
    – No electrical appliances. Every dish scrubbed by hand, every piece of laundry scrubbed on a board and hung on a clothesline, every loaf of bread kneaded by hand.
    – They sewed most of their clothes.
    – They raised more kids, usually at least 4.

    The biggest problem most women have today is that they don’t have enough that matters to do, and what they have left (like running two kids to activities every day) isn’t physical, so they’re left with tons of nervous energy looking for an outlet.

  467. Dalrock says:

    @Mmhmm

    I’m not siding with anyone. Didn’t realize that I had to pick a team! LL indicated in one of her posts that he resented supporting her. She also said that she appreciated him and his contributions while he did not appreciate her housework and childcare. In her quote about housework she mentioned that her mother worked AND did all of the housework and childcare and that she didn’t want that for herself. (And really who can blame her. Sounds miserable.) It seems that she did the housework while she wasn’t working.

    It isn’t a team you need to pick, but a consistent persona. This is a problem many trolls have. First you were in favor of traditional roles, chastising Lifshitz’s husband for not being traditional enough. Once that line of argument stopped working your real feminist persona came out.

    As for the vow challenged Lifshitz, she doesn’t tell us she was happy to do the housework since her husband was supporting her. She tells us that from an early age she had cultivated feminist resentment over traditional roles. She is the poster child for the ugly feminist. She wanted to be strong and independent but wasn’t willing to do what it took to get the job she needed to play this role. Actually she was willing to do what it took, but not in an honorable way.

  468. thedeti says:

    “I see from the comments that there are a lot of men who don’t appreciate housekeeping and childcare, which is their prerogative, but unappreciated wives who are resented and treated with contempt over money tend to react like Laura Lifshitz. It may not be right, but it is predictable.”

    The “you men don’t appreciate housewives” claim is a pretext for the real reason these women blow up their marriages. Almost all the time in this society, when you drill all the way down to the reason a wife is frivorcing her husband, it’s because of lack of sexual attraction — either wasn’t there to begin with, or she has lost attraction. The marriage is over simply because she doesn’t want to have sex with her husband anymore, and she wants to trade him in for a new model, an upgrade.

  469. Mmhmm says:

    @ Dalrock

    I am not trolling and if my comments are unwelcome let me know and I’ll stop posting.

    I chastised LL’s husband for denigrating his wife because she didn’t make enough money. As I mentioned up thread, falsely claiming that a husband’s authority comes from making money makes his headship an insult and a challenge and sets up unhealthy competition between spouses. Even if she’d made money and he’d scrubbed toilets a marriage like this would struggle and probably end badly because they are competing for leader with loser being treated with contempt. That’s not how marriage is supposed to work.

    If LL is an ugly feminist then so is her husband. Feminists claim that only women with successful careers are to be valued and respected. LL’s husband made that claim and here are his results.

  470. earl says:

    Are you sure it’s strictly sexual attraction deti? The more I look into this the reason why women blow up their marriages is the a lack (or perceived lack) of emotional connection. Keep in mind sex is part of the emotional connection…but it’s not the complete scope of it.

  471. earl says:

    And I’d also add the woman can play a big part herself on not allowing an emotional connection to happen as much as the man not showing any effort to make one.

  472. @CailC Right. My great-grandmothers managed to do it, even though:

    – They had to pump their water from a well outside and carry it into the house, where they heated it on a wood stove for bathing and cleaning.
    – They cooked everything from scratch.
    – They grew, harvested, slaughtered, and preserved most of their own food (husbands did some of that)..
    – Their cleaning supplies consisted of a few basics like vinegar and bleach.
    – No electrical appliances. Every dish scrubbed by hand, every piece of laundry scrubbed on a board and hung on a clothesline, every loaf of bread kneaded by hand.
    – They sewed most of their clothes.
    – They raised more kids, usually at least 4.

    The biggest problem most women have today is that they don’t have enough that matters to do, and what they have left (like running two kids to activities every day) isn’t physical, so they’re left with tons of nervous energy looking for an outlet.

    You’re right… when I first read this I was put off… but it’s true. Whenever I’m doing something physical for my family, for taking care of our house/life/yard, it is the best time to be humbled and is most often when I feel God speak to me. Women get frustrated over things at times – I was extremely frustrated at Cane C for misjudging me and having those ambitions of trying to ruin my reputation for the “betterment of the men here.” But when I was working in my garden yesterday, ripping out weeds (really hard garden work when they’re overgrown), God revealed my own pride and anger issues in the circumstance, and how it wasn’t my obligation at all (AT ALL) to condemn Cane for his actions.

    I don’t think it would’ve happened if I hadn’t been spending the time doing the work of gardening (a thing largely of the past anyway), at least not the humbling part.

  473. Dalrock says:

    @mTroll

    I am not trolling and if my comments are unwelcome let me know and I’ll stop posting.

    Of course you are. You keep shifting your persona to fit whatever argument you think will best stir things up. When you aren’t validating Lifshitz’s feminist resentment of traditional gender roles, you are lecturing us on the proper role of headship:

    I chastised LL’s husband for denigrating his wife because she didn’t make enough money. As I mentioned up thread, falsely claiming that a husband’s authority comes from making money makes his headship an insult and a challenge and sets up unhealthy competition between spouses. Even if she’d made money and he’d scrubbed toilets a marriage like this would struggle and probably end badly because they are competing for leader with loser being treated with contempt. That’s not how marriage is supposed to work.

    If LL is an ugly feminist then so is her husband. Feminists claim that only women with successful careers are to be valued and respected. LL’s husband made that claim and here are his results.

    Of course Lifshitz’s husband was a feminist; that is why she married him. It is also why she explains she divorced him. Either way, this isn’t about him. This is about an innocent four year old girl and the mother who is profiting from the pain she inflicted on her. You are transparent in your endless acrobatics to make it about Lifshitz’s husband, constantly re-framing the issue to what isn’t relevant. It is tedious. Someone upthread compared you to Doomed Harlot, but most of the time at least she was merely a low grade troll. She was above board on what her perspective was. You keep shifting yours thinking no one will notice.

  474. Novaseeker says:

    It seemed to me like LL and her hub were bobos, so not people who were even trying to live traditional roles, but folks who were expecting to live with two incomes. That’s kind of standard operating procedure among the professional caste in most of the larger cities of the US. Hub seems to have been jerky about it when she had trouble pulling in money, but it seems very doubtful that either LL or hub had any interest in a traditional set up, and therefore a traditional approach by hub likely would have failed as well.

  475. Mmhmm says:

    The “you men don’t appreciate housewives” claim is a pretext for the real reason these women blow up their marriages. Almost all the time in this society, when you drill all the way down to the reason a wife is frivorcing her husband, it’s because of lack of sexual attraction — either wasn’t there to begin with, or she has lost attraction. The marriage is over simply because she doesn’t want to have sex with her husband anymore, and she wants to trade him in for a new model, an upgrade.

    If marriages ended for this simple reason then the divorce rate would be a lot higher than it is. Every time a man gained 30 pounds and lost his hair his wife would run to divorce court. Marriages survive a lack of sexual attraction. Contempt is what most often leads to divorce and money issues are close second. LL’s marriage had both.

  476. Mmhmm says:

    Of course Lifshitz’s husband was a feminist; that is why she married him. It is also why she explains she divorced him. Either way, this isn’t about him. This is about an innocent four year old girl and the mother who is profiting from the pain she inflicted on her. You are transparent in your endless acrobatics to make it about Lifshitz’s husband, constantly re-framing the issue to what isn’t relevant. It is tedious. Someone upthread compared you to Doomed Harlot, but most of the time at least she was merely a low grade troll. She was above board on what her perspective was. You keep shifting yours thinking no one will notice.

    We are in complete agreement about LL’s behavior, as I said upthread. Is discussing the husband’s role in the divorce what you mean by reframe? I am less offtopic than the conversation about tank tops so I didn’t think that bringing up the husband’s contribution to the end of the marriage would be considered trolling.

  477. Anchorman says:

    Move that strawman away from the fire, please.

  478. greyghost says:

    It is not going to end with Life-shit More motivation for happiness and joy on display. Lets see Life-shit and crew top this.
    http://www.returnofkings.com/59694/5-reasons-its-better-to-be-a-divorced-parent-according-to-the-huffington-post

  479. thedeti says:

    “If marriages ended for this simple reason then the divorce rate would be a lot higher than it is. Every time a man gained 30 pounds and lost his hair his wife would run to divorce court. Marriages survive a lack of sexual attraction. Contempt is what most often leads to divorce and money issues are close second. LL’s marriage had both.”

    Some marriages survive lack of her sexual attraction for him. But those marriages ending in “no fault divorce, the “irreconcilable differences causing the irretrievable breakdown” kind, where the wife sought the divorce (which is about 70% of the time), it’s because she doesn’t find him sexually attractive.

    As for “contempt” most often leading to divorce, the root of her contempt (i.e. disrespect, disgust) for him is that she finds him sexually unappealing, repulsive, undesirable. If she enjoyed sex with him, if she found him sexually attractive, she’d find a way to respect him and keep him in her life. But since she doesn’t, he gets shown the door.

    As for money issues, these are also a pretext for sexual disattraction. I know this, because I know plenty of women married to or in LTRs with good looking hawt guys, “Total Deadbeat Rob Lowes”. She supports him. She takes care of him. She hasn’t booted him out because he doesn’t contribute to the bottom line. She keeps him because he’s hawt and gives her toe-curling orgasms.

  480. Anchorman says:

    Has mmhmm posted on this site before this thread?

    [D: No. Her first comment was here. However, I see no reason from the IPs to suspect that she is a sock puppet for Lifshitz.]

  481. Anchorman says:

    Given the fierce determination that blame always leads back to the husband, makes me wonder if it’s LL posting under a pseudonym.

  482. This may not be much of an epiphany but here goes:

    Men are the eunuch’s of the State’s harem. The can be disposed of at a whim and if they are found intact this can soon be remedied.

  483. thedeti says:

    “Are you sure it’s strictly sexual attraction deti? The more I look into this the reason why women blow up their marriages is the a lack (or perceived lack) of emotional connection. Keep in mind sex is part of the emotional connection…but it’s not the complete scope of it.”

    Yes and no. For women, “sexual attraction” and “sexual attractiveness” are much more than just “I want him to put his penis in my vagina”. It’s that she sees this man AS A MAN. She sees him as someone who has power (confidence/dominance), status, looks and resources, in sufficient quantity and quality, for her to view him as a man. Is this a male who knows what he wants and pursues it? Is this a male who sees a problem and then works to a solution? Is this a male who can wield influence over his own life? Is this a male who projects that he will survive even if things go badly, and thrive when things are going well? Is this a male who projects that when the tough times come, he can get through them and emerge on the other side? A woman will reflexively respect and defer to such a man. A woman will open herself up to such a man (there’s your “emotional connection”, Earl). And it is all these things she sees, that make her conclude “I want him to put his penis into my vagina”.

    Lots of women view their husbands as males, as paychecks, as walking ATMs, as wallets with legs, as “well, this is the best I could do, and this is who would have me, so, oh well.”

    And that is the source of most frivorces. And that is what I mean by “sexual attraction”.

  484. Are you sure it’s strictly sexual attraction deti? The more I look into this the reason why women blow up their marriages is the a lack (or perceived lack) of emotional connection.

    No, it’s the sexual attraction. “Lack of emotional connection” is a rationalization they trot out after the fact because it sounds more noble than, “I never want to see his dick again.” Plenty of women filing for divorce still have strong emotional connections with their husbands — often including negative emotions, but positive ones frequently remain, and they often want (at the time) to stay friends. Sometimes they even do stay close for a while; it’s not unusual for a woman to try to turn her ex-husband into a beta orbiter.

    She gets divorced because she no longer wants to be possessed by that particular man, and sex is the most obvious, visceral, and emotional expression of that possession. It wouldn’t bother her to be platonic roommates with a guy she felt no attraction for, but marriage implies that she belongs to him (or for egalitarians, that they belong to each other, but there’s still a sense of belonging), and there’s an assumption that sex is part of the deal, even if rare. That’s what she can’t stand. And it makes practical sense: if she ever wants to be possessed by another man in that official, ongoing, marital sense, she has to get this guy out of that position to make room.

    Usually, once she’s gotten some distance and found a new man, the emotional connection does die, but that’s a consequence of the divorce, not a cause of it.

  485. thedeti says:

    The idea that “you don’t appreciate my housework” is a cause of marital strife is laughable.

    The idea that women are up in arms, won’t sex their husbands and are ready to divorce them because hubs doesn’t appreciate her housework is silly.

    Sorry, I don’t know any women who first asked the hawt guys they sexed up whether those guys appreciated good housework. And those women certainly didn’t condition sex on those men’s responses.

    I don’t know any women who shacked up with F*ckbuddy Rockbanddrummer, but ONLY after asking how F*ckbuddy felt about housework.

  486. Novaseeker says:

    Plenty of women filing for divorce still have strong emotional connections with their husbands — often including negative emotions, but positive ones frequently remain, and they often want (at the time) to stay friends. Sometimes they even do stay close for a while; it’s not unusual for a woman to try to turn her ex-husband into a beta orbiter.

    Yep. It’s the basis for the whole “I love him but I am not in love with him” speech that is the common thread that runs through these kinds of divorces. They do feel emotionally connected, but the husband is simply dumped from the “erotic/romantic” box and placed in the “orbiter” box. Women actually do like their orbiters and feel connected to them, but they are simply not in the “erotic/romantic” box.

  487. Has mmhmm posted on this site before this thread?

    Yes, but under other names. Until Dalrock bans her again, you can make her useful by simply assuming everything she says is exactly 180 degrees off from the truth.

  488. Anchorman says:

    As with anything, it’s never what they say, it’s their actions.

    If an ex, male or female, leaves a marriage and goes on a bang spree – it had nothing to do with the need for a deep, lasting, and satisfying emotional connection.

  489. Yoda says:

    Contempt is what most often leads to divorce

    Contempt comes from where it does?
    Deep one should look

  490. Anchorman says:

    Yes, but under other names.

    I suppose, but I haven’t seen any other instances. It’s as if this thread is bookmarked and of particular interest.

    However, I gotta admit, I haven’t really looked too hard. Not really worth the effort. More idle curiosity. For years, I was a moderator for a NFL team message board and trolls/ghosting/bi-posting, whatever you call it, has always been a hobby of mine. Of course, I had IP access to spot the lazier ones easier.

  491. earl says:

    ‘If an ex, male or female, leaves a marriage and goes on a bang spree – it had nothing to do with the need for a deep, lasting, and satisfying emotional connection.’

    They still have the need for it. What they don’t realize is they are the ones preventing it from happening. Banging a bunch of people in fact would make it even more difficult.

  492. earl says:

    ‘Lots of women view their husbands as males, as paychecks, as walking ATMs, as wallets with legs, as “well, this is the best I could do, and this is who would have me, so, oh well.”

    And that is the source of most frivorces. And that is what I mean by “sexual attraction”.

    Well that’s their problem then. We live in an age where people only want each others utility and leave out the humanity. If a woman views a man as a utility she’s no better than a man that views women as a utility.

  493. earl says:

    It would seem if men only view women for sex…the reciprocation of that would be women only view men for their resources.

  494. @Anchorman, over at DKos they had a guy that specialized in running the linguistic analytics “the spinning vase of doom” he never detected my second account. It’s getting to be quite a science.

  495. greyghost says:

    Well that’s their problem then. We live in an age where people only want each others utility and leave out the humanity. If a woman views a man as a utility she’s no better than a man that views women as a utility.

    Earl
    A huge part of the red pill is to get men to see that woman see them as a utility and always have and most importantly always will. Men need to see women as a utility to have a clear view of the woman to make a jugement if she is worthy of commitment. Once women understand men see them as worthless whores only good for sex the basic nature of women takes over and the wicked selfish nature behaves in a way that makes them more than just pussy. You are treated well by a woman not because you are a good man she treats you well so you think she is a good woman. She will never treat you well because you are a good person ever. We like to call it femininity. A red pill man that understands and can appreciate good behavior is masculine Not very romantic but it’s that curse thing for man that toil for the earth to bare fruit thing. nice guys finish last for a valid reason.

  496. earl says:

    @greyghost…

    That thinking is by far wrong. We are not just utilities and we weren’t created for that. We have souls.

  497. greyghost says:

    No shit Earl

  498. lonestarwhacko says:

    Folks, the feminist-marxists are gonna troll. Just the way it is. Ignore them. Indifference is best. Rational people understand that this society is collapsing. Feminism has reared it’s head before. Nothing new there. They can be compared to jackals that feed on an animal before it’s dead. What this woman has done is typical. She would have been shunned in a healthy society. You know, one that controls feral females, instead of letting them multiply. However, here we are. Marriage as we know it is dead. Male flight from frivorce rape is growing. Young men are feminised, but they still know that women hate them. Most women today are feminists. Do you think that this country can kill 50 million babies, and it not have a seriously malignant effect on this society? Everyone knows they are babies, they just don’t want to talk about it.

  499. greyghost says:

    Lone star has it down and gets it

  500. Anchorman says:

    TFH,
    You gotta hit the heavy bag (joke in there somewhere) so you can be ready for the main event.

  501. TFH, I’m beginning to think that that goes for some guys too.

  502. earl says:

    ‘By making the effort to rebut them, you are merely giving them the gina tingles they seek (i.e. rewarding their bad behavior).’

    Rewarding their bad behavior is telling them sweet little lies to get them through the day.

  503. BradA says:

    I will attempt to stay out of the rest of the conversation, but I did want to note that my statement about Cane being rough was just a comment on our own sparse interactions. I did find his original reply a bit rough, but typical of him. I was not trying to say he was wrong in it, just noting he seemed true to his character.

    GirlWith,

    You really need to get a thicker skin if you want to play on the Internet. This seems a lot like an issue of women griping about online harassment when it is nothing compared to the harassment men get.

    Look at how I get pilloried for some of my stands and learn that it goes with the territory. Anyone who doesn’t want it should do other things and stay far away from the Internet and especially discussion areas like this.

  504. BradA says:

    The whole thing reminds me of someone wearing scant clothing on the beach on a hot day and then complaining that they got sunburned. One follows the other….

  505. BradA says:

    Again, it is unfortunate that solid red-pill men actually engage with women who come here trolling for gina tingles, Mmhmmm just being the latest of many.

    I thought that Mmhmmm is a female, per comments in another thread.

  506. JDG says:

    Brad I believe he was stating that Mmhmmm is a woman trolling for tingles. If it really is tingles she is after I recommend a trip to the kitchen for an episode in sammich making.

  507. earl says:

    Or she could go gardening.

  508. Farm Boy says:

    She could go gardening to grow tomatoes for the sammiches.

  509. Gin Martini says:

    Wow, Plain Jane (mmhmm) is still taunting you guys, and you still don’t recognize her writing? Come on. In two or articles, she’ll be talking about yoga and meditation and living in open sewers.

  510. Pingback: Hold her beer and watch this. | Dalrock

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