Feminist: Men don’t complain enough when taking over tasks from women.

Hat Tip Instapundit.  In her WaPo article Why don’t dads complain about parenthood like moms do? Samantha Rodman describes what she calls an alarming trend:

It seems like women are being publicly applauded for complaining about parenthood. And dads, well, aren’t. At all.

Rodman is delighted that women now feel freer than ever to complain.  But she is deeply troubled that while men are taking on more and more of the responsibilities feminist women have shunned, men aren’t doing it right.  Specifically, men are not complaining about these responsibilities like women do:

Imagine being at a play date and hearing someone say, “God, I needed a drink all day today. The kids were behaving terribly, I couldn’t deal.” You’re picturing a mom, right?

However, what if the speaker is a dad? The question is moot because I have yet to hear a dad complain this openly and honestly about his kids, and this is not for lack of trying. Dads don’t even take the conversational bait. If asked to commiserate about parenting, the average mom breathes a sigh of relief and sits forward in her seat, but the average dad looks around like he’s on Candid Camera and gives a vague answer about having lots of fun sitting around watching dance class through a two way mirror for the 15th week in a row.

What has not yet dawned on feminists is that men not complaining didn’t mean men got a better deal than women.  It is just that men are far less likely to complain.  Most men understand that bitching, moaning, and being miserly with love is ugly.  On the other hand, complaining about anything, everything, and even nothing is at the core of feminism.

Not surprisingly, Rodman sees confession sites like Scary Mommy as hallmarks of feminist progress.  Let it all hang out is the new slogan for motherhood, and being true to yourself is now the ultimate maternal virtue.  She is delighted at the thought of her daughters growing up to not be ashamed to be terrible mothers, liberated from the feminist arch-enemy, guilt.

Mommy guilt seems to be on its way out, shepherded by the honesty in the blogosphere and, more recently, by books like All Joy and No Fun by Jennifer Senior. The mom confessional zeitgeist has grown so dramatically that it is barely a trend anymore. Rather, it’s ushering in of a new era of honesty and self-disclosure for moms. This is all wonderful news, and I hope that mommy guilt is vestigial by the time my daughters may decide to become moms.

But in a baffling twist, weak men (who aren’t brave enough to bitch) and evil society are ruining it all.

Note: I am not judging any of these behaviors. I’m saying this: Tell me what the reaction would be if a dad talked about yelling too much and smoking pot in front of his kids.

If Daddy is going to be an equal parent, then Scary Daddy needs to be recognized and supported too.

This entry was posted in Philosophy of Feminism, Scary Mommy, Ugly Feminists, Weak men screwing feminism up. Bookmark the permalink.

179 Responses to Feminist: Men don’t complain enough when taking over tasks from women.

  1. Pingback: Feminist: Men don’t complain enough when taking over tasks from women. | Manosphere.com

  2. okrahead says:

    So feminists now get to decide whether fathers are equal parents… And to get there we’re supposed to smoke pot in front of our kids and yell at them. I wonder how long this can last before the purging begins.

  3. I am a single father, half-time. Men don’t complain because being a parent is 99% fun, and we love it. Deal with it feminist morons. The feminists are desperate to portray everything a woman does as overwhelmingly difficult, what a huge steaming pile of crap.

  4. sonofdeathswriter says:

    Complaining about anything doesn’t get things done.

    Soon to be dad since we are adopting a boy, I have fun parenting. There isn’t any point of dreading it and concentrating on my own thing when I have a responsibility and what I have to do can wait or isn’t that important.

  5. Mike Caputo says:

    Yes, complaining is at the core of modern feminism. But at the core of the core is the ultimate aim of turning men into women. Because above all else, feminism is female supremacy in the most literal sense: if men would stop being so *stubborn* and just think, communicate, emote, and empathize exactly like women, the world would be a better place. Masculinity is a relic; a vestigial appendage. It can only do harm by bringing violence and danger into this fundamentally peaceful world, and therefore it needs to be excised through – of course – complaining about it.

  6. Pingback: Feminist: Men don’t complain enough when taking over tasks from women. | Neoreactive

  7. Robin Munn says:

    Complaining about anything doesn’t get things done.

    Might as well shut down the comments now. Nothing I could write could possibly sum up the difference in attitude better than that one sentence. Excellently done, sir.

  8. earl says:

    Yes the truth is…complaining doesn’t solve problems. The flip side is kids are pretty fun when you aren’t being a control freak all the time with them.

  9. gnardopolo says:

    What this woman isn’t saying is that she would crucify any man who did what she is suggesting, and use their complaints, no matter how valid, to extort more from the men stupid enough to follow her advice.

    Men do complain–to each other, in private, to trusted other men who understand. Then we pat each other on the shoulder, murmur a few words of encouragement, and get back to work. We’re not going to post it on the internet forever, where it might come back to haunt us. We’re already getting enough grief for our hunting and fishing posts.

  10. Jeremy says:

    Words actually fail me this time. The woman who thinks that is insane.

  11. sonofdeathswriter says:

    Might as well shut down the comments now. Nothing I could write could possibly sum up the difference in attitude better than that one sentence. Excellently done, sir.

    LOL.

    When it comes to subjects like parenting, there isn’t no point of complaining. Enjoy it. There are things worth complaining about but parenting isn’t one of them. I don’t understand why some women complain so much or running their mouth that they can’t see that the time they were complaining they could have been doing something else that made their supposedly hectic day easier.

  12. Trust says:

    Women have been programmed to see victimhood in everything. So even the most reasonable, even self-imposed, expectations are met with disdain.

    Men in the other hand understand they have responsibilities. I take my daughter’s to dance class, and while I don’t always feel like going, I hardly find the hour that I have to read or chat “oppressive.”

  13. Anchorman says:

    Feminists want women to be like men and, apparently, men to be like women.

    Men keep screwing up feminism!

  14. Anchorman says:

    It all comes back to one simple point:

    There is a guide for men to learn how to be men.

    He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

  15. earl says:

    It’s their hope someday a weak effeminate man has the courage to stand up and write on a white board:

    ‘I need feminism, because I should have the right to complain.’

  16. Boxer says:

    I am a single father, half-time. Men don’t complain because being a parent is 99% fun, and we love it. Deal with it feminist morons.

    Women complain as a way to boast. It’s a signifier of social status among other women to have children and a husband. Women bash their husband as a way to let the sluts they hang out with know their place, with plausible deniability lest they get told they’re full of themselves.

    Men don’t do this, hence no complaining.

  17. Dalrock says:

    @Anchorman

    Feminists want women to be like men and, apparently, men to be like women.

    I would say instead that feminists wish they could be men, but since they can’t be men they don’t want men to be able to either. Neither wish can ever come true.

  18. earl says:

    ‘Women complain as a way to boast.’

    Humblebrag.

    In fact one time looking through a primer of confession it did put complaining on par with bragging. Making your life out to be worse than it is…is a form of bragging.

  19. kborz3 says:

    I think she’s trying to get men to complain and/or do a worse job parenting to take pressure off the current moms’ depreciating standards, makes moms look bad with all these superdads around. If everyone complains about how poorly of a job they’re doing in raising the next generation, then we will finally have equality feminism dreams about. Bring everyone down, level the playing field so to speak.

  20. pancakeloach says:

    Women complain as a way to boast.
    Bingo. Also, whining in front of White Knights causes them to take over responsibilities as a way of “fixing the problem.” Because guys get things done!

    The modern feminists have no idea that male emotional lives work nothing like womens’ – since they have been taught that men and women are Exactly The Same as a religious dogma – so they look at men not complaining and get uncomfortable. Reality is not matching their dogma! Something is wrong! (Then they blame either society, or men. Or, always popular – BOTH!)

  21. cdw 100 says:

    When men take over caring for the children, they know fundamentally that the woman has put forth the shit test, and the men know it. So we wrap ourselves in our children with the knowledge that if we last it out long enough, the children will be old enough to choose to stay with dad when mom runs off with the toilet mouthed tattooed biker just because the old gal wants to take the old rust bucket out for one or 40 more rides. In these modern times men are starting to win their children in divorce courts, not as many as you would like to see, but it is happening. So when women start to complain about men being dads and the real parent, what you really see is how they are going to whine to the judge in divorce court about how it is unfair that the kids stay with dad and the harlot is on the hook for the child support. I saw this happen last month at work, and oh boyo, the lady aint happy she has to pay 900 per month for two kids, and no tax deduction, because this is Canada.

  22. modernmathetes says:

    Men get things done by working. Women get things done by convincing other people to work.

  23. Phillyastro says:

    So, our betters want all of us to be miserable. They don’t believe in hell, so they’ll create hell here on earth (see Gnostic heresy).

  24. Jeremy says:

    No seriously, the woman is insane. She has no concept of motherhood, and any woman who honestly believes that expressing frustration in parenting is somehow healthy… they are out of their f*cking minds.

    Children are blank slates. If you show anger to them, they’ll grow up angry at everything. If you show weakness to them, they’ll grow up weak. If you demonstrate nothing but frustration that that child exists in your life, your child will grow up to hate themselves.

    Any woman who cannot put themselves into the minds of their children and see things from the child’s perspective long enough to recognize that paramount importance towards the future of humanity of the example they are providing to their child should probably not have children, period.

  25. This is great. I once gave up complaining for Lent because, you see, complaining is BAD.

  26. D42 says:

    I knew a SAHD. He did a good job. He didn’t plan to be a SAHD, it worked out that way because he lost his job (not his fault, company was downsized) while his wife was pregnant. They figured the cost of daycare wasn’t worth it, so he ended up with the childcare duties.

    One day, he was sitting with a group of SAHMs and he confessed that he had moments where he felt tired, bored, frustrated, sometimes overwhelmed. Basically, he’d spent a week caring for a sick toddler who was waking him up several times a night and vomiting all over everything during the day–so he was feeling less joyful about parenting than usual. The SAHMs reassured him that his feelings were normal. No one’s perfect. They also reassured him that he was doing an important job for his family. Our feminist society had taught this man that childcare was crap work for total losers. He’d tried to put that mindset behind him, but he couldn’t lose that thought entirely. He struggled with the thought that maybe he was a loser for staying home with his son. At least he had a support network of friends and family to counteract these toxic attitudes about children. An average feminist mom probably doesn’t have this.

    Most women these days have been prepared for careers outside the home. They’ve had no instruction on how to raise kids or how to cook or manage a household budget. Of course, it’s hard on them when they first try it out. They don’t know what they’re doing, and they’ve got a bunch of screeching harpies telling them they’re wrong for doing it.

  27. If asked to commiserate about parenting, the average mom breathes a sigh of relief and sits forward in her seat, but the average dad looks around like he’s on Candid Camera and gives a vague answer about having lots of fun sitting around watching dance class through a two way mirror for the 15th week in a row.

    I’ve never had a problem picking my daughter up from dance class. It is kind of fun for me (one of only two dads ever to pick them up) to sit there with all the mommies complaining and b-tching their miserable lives. It finally occurred to me why I enjoyed it so much. The mommies were miserable which made me feel appreicaite of what I had. So why were these miserable women miserable? Why were they always complaining all the time to each other? They were all frivorced. None of them re-married. But their husbands were all re-married or at least… dating. One such woman was especially angry with her (at that time) 37 year old ex-husband because he was dating a 19 year old girl. Funny thing was said girl was over ex-wife’s house for daughter’s birthday party one year, she was thirst and wanted something to drink that wasn’t soda or water (but there was no booze in the house) so ex-wife offered new gf or ex-husband one of her daughter’s juice boxes and she took it. That brought a myriad of laughs from these frivorced ladies one evening. I have to admit, I chuckled at that too.

  28. HowlingManTodd says:

    Bill Burr already tackled this subject masterfully:

  29. Gunner Q says:

    The OP doesn’t want what she’s asking for. Men don’t complain about misbehaving kids because men prefer to punish misbehaving kids.

    I don’t like kids. I tried to learn to like kids by volunteering for things like church groups because “no children” is a marriage dealbreaker for a lot of eligible brides. The attempts never turned out well because the kids had no discipline. No respect.

    Did I want to commiserate about it? No, I wanted to take my belt off, turn the relevant brats over my knee and present some Gospel. Except I wasn’t allowed to, in any way at all. I couldn’t even ban the one who shared pornography at church group and made random accusations against church leaders.

    The Church’s hostility towards men runs deep. They say they want us to show up and help out but they don’t, not really.

  30. Novaseeker says:

    It’s indeed humorous that they are offended that men are not as annoyed about parenting as women are. The reason is obvious, I think: women have been told that parenting sucks for at least three generations now — that it is worthless, it sucks, it is less important than having a career, and it’s unfair that this sucky, pain-in-the-ass thing is “foisted” on them by men, who are busy off having loads of fun at work. This, and women complain about everything anyway, by tendency — I think they just need to unload their frustrations verbally in a way that men generally do not (we unload them physically, generally).

    I do think, though, that quite a significant percentage of women under 60 have a negative view of parenting.

  31. Jesus. Just… Jesus. At this point, I’m genuinely unnerved. I know things will be different in 20 years. I know that biology/evolution will win out. I guess I’m just wondering: did it need to come to this?

  32. Jeff says:

    Complaining is for toddlers and women. Unless it’s an extreme circumstance, if a man complains he’ll rightfully be labelled a pussy and told to shut the fuck up…usually by other men. The women hearing him won’t say as such but any attraction she has for him will weaken.

    This fact is telling of women’s emotional makeup….they are not equipped to handle even female-oriented tasks. Why the hell should they be allowed entry into male tasks?

  33. cheesetrader says:

    When men complain, it is because they’re looking for help, for a solution to a problem they can’t quit articulate.

    When women complain, it is to generate empathy and feelings of self-esteem thru being heard – they absolutely don’t want solutions

    IOW “It’s not about the nail”

  34. Gunner Q says:

    “I know that biology/evolution will win out. I guess I’m just wondering: did it need to come to this?”

    Yes because biology, not evolution. Humans are a created species. We have specific, gaping flaws in our immutable human nature that happen to be exactly what the Bible says they are. The more people fight against this, the more they deny God created us, the harder they try to be something different, the more obvious it becomes they’re wrong.

    The most infuriating part is we Christians can’t break the cycle, only watch as the Fall of Eden reenacts itself once again. But then, I don’t suppose God wants the cycle broken. This reality is boot camp for eternity and the Almighty doesn’t want to close the camp after just one class.

    Heck, there’ll be one last gigantic cycle AFTER Christ returns. Even our Savior doesn’t get to miss the fun of hamsters with matches.

  35. johnmcg says:

    And here we have the Catch-22:

    If we complain, we’re whiners and neandrethal men who want to turn the clock back and be completely uninvolved in parenting and our children’s lives. Why does everything have to be such a chore for you?

    If we don’t complain, it must mean it’s easy for us, requires no sacrifice, we do it naturally, and we could probably stand to be loaded up with more.

  36. Dave says:

    ANHEDONIA: a psychological condition characterized by inability to experience pleasure in normally pleasurable acts

  37. earl says:

    “It’s not about the nail”

    Oh yeah.

  38. zodak says:

    maybe some men want to be fathers & enjoy it.

  39. rover77 says:

    because we aren’t doing it right…and feminists are looking out for us..want to free us from our silent bondage or is it …it makes them look bad?…or does it make them look at themselves..their resentment and anger toward their own children

  40. feeriker says:

    I love it when women of this sort publicly pre-disqualify themselves as wives and mothers.

    Thanks, Sammy. May every other she-beast in the western world with your attitude be as candid as you, thus sparing self-respecting men everywhere the horrific ordeal of wife-ing you up and procreating with you.

  41. zykos says:

    We know complaining is a mark of weakness, from which women are consoled and men ridiculed. That’s mainly why men don’t do it. The reverse is confidence and aggressiveness, which suits a man but doesn’t a woman. In a funny ‘meta’ twist, that’s how things like “ban bossy” are born, and why a male equivalent isn’t possible (you can’t aggressively ask people to allow you to be wark and complain).

    But the reason feminists have a problem with men not complaining, beyond their obsession about equality, is because feminism is about aping men. If you think you’re doing the exact same thing, sharing the breadwinning and childrearing 50/50 and then realize you don’t behave the same way, your mimicry has failed. There’s something wrong. In this case, the fact men aren’t complaining suggests to them they haven’t completely figured out how to be a man yet. This ties neatly into your post about “male pride”, Dalrock. The bad news for them is that they will never fully “get it”.

  42. Crank says:

    I’m not sure why she thinks this is in any way limited to parenthood. Long before they become men, boys learn that public complaining gets them nothing but and admonition to suck it up and get it done. Women (and girls) on the other hand, are encouraged and placated when they do so. We’re just wired to take the needs of women more seriously than those of men. This is THE main reason why feminism, in all its extremes, continues to be successful – human beings, and society is generally, are predisposed to try to make things better for women and girls who complain. And we are similarly wired to shame and even shun men and adolescent boys who do so.

  43. Men expect life to be hard and are grateful when it’s easy.

    Women expect life to be easy and complain when it’s hard.

    This is another example of the Male Catch-22:
    http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/18/the-honor-system/

    Man Up or Shut Up – The Male Catch 22

    One of the primary way’s Honor is used against men is in the feminized perpetuation of traditionally masculine expectations when it’s convenient, while simultaneously expecting egalitarian gender parity when it’s convenient.

    For the past 60 years feminization has built in the perfect Catch 22 social convention for anything masculine; The expectation to assume the responsibilities of being a man (Man Up) while at the same time denigrating asserting masculinity as a positive (Shut Up). Whatever aspect of maleness that serves the feminine purpose is a man’s masculine responsibility, yet any aspect that disagrees with feminine primacy is labeled Patriarchy and Misogyny.

    Essentially, this convention keeps beta males in a perpetual state of chasing their own tails. Over the course of a lifetime they’re conditioned to believe that they’re cursed with masculinity (Patriarchy) yet are still responsible to ‘Man Up’ when it suits a feminine imperative. So it’s therefore unsurprising to see that half the men in western society believe women dominate the world (male powerlessness) while at the same time women complain of a lingering Patriarchy (female powerlessness) or at least sentiments of it. This is the Catch 22 writ large. The guy who does in fact Man Up is a chauvinist, misogynist, patriarch, but he still needs to man up when it’s convenient to meet the needs of a female imperative

    Complain about parenting, you’re a male idiot who has no idea what women put up with.
    Don’t complain, take it on the chin and bear down, you’re a passive pussy for not standing up for himself.

    Short version: The Game is rigged.

  44. Mike says:

    I’m a single dad. I have a 50/50 time split with my ex wife. My divorce opened my eyes to the true nature of women. I’ve found Dalrock & Rollo to be pretty spot on with their explanations of the nature of women. Although they do approach it from slightly different angles.

    One area that is rarely discussed is this subject of women & parenting. My personal situation gives me a good vantage point into this. My ex is quite capable at the duties required to run a household such as laundry, cooking and the like. Where she fails and I suspect many women fail is actually raising a child.

    What I mean by raising a child is teaching them how to succeed at life. The ability to use teachable moments, to allow them to fail, pushing their boundaries so they may grow as a person. Teaching them wrong from right. These types of things have been known as times for fatherly advice. Taking lessons learned in life and passing them on from one generation to another so that they may avoid the same mistakes. Anyone can accomplish fulfilling the basic needs of a child ( food, shelter, clothing) Its the raising that truly matters though.

    From my personal experience I’ve come to the conclusion that when it comes to raising a child a women’s job is done at about the age of 5 or 6. From that point on it’s the job of the father and to some extent the extended family ( grandparents, uncles, brothers and coaches or mentors).

    The more women clamor for equality in parenting the more evident that this truth of a women’s value after rearing a child diminishing greatly will become. There are many studies showing the damages done to a child in a fatherless home and what I’ve said here is what I believe to be in part an explanation for that. Women have the children, men raise them.

    To some extent I believe this variance of hypergamy. While its not Alpha f*cks/Beta bucks it agrees with women’s sexuality. After giving a man his child and rearing it for 5 years she is free of the man and the child and is able to move on to another man whom she may deem a better provider of DNA to repeat the process.

  45. Joe says:

    We don’t complain about parenting stuff – or cooking dinner or washing dishes or seeing about that noise downstairs in the night – because we are not bitches. They shouldn’t ask men to start whining unless they’d prefer men to be bitches.

  46. paddy says:

    the unspoken monopoly of mothers being the only fit parent is EXACTLY why women – particularly still aren’t taken seriously.

    Men cannot offer you anything unless you stop considering them second-class parents.

    Sound familiar ? It should, bitches.

    Change comes slow to you, as a result.

  47. javaloco says:

    That must make children = woman flu.

  48. Bluepillprofessor says:

    “What has not yet dawned on feminists is that men not complaining didn’t mean men got a better deal than women. It is just that men are far less likely to complain. Most men understand that bitching, moaning, and being miserly with love is ugly. On the other hand, complaining about anything, everything, and even nothing is at the core of feminism.”

    Again, Dalrock, why does that authoress you quoted last time get to make a living from writing her pedantic bullcrap while you have a real job? The mighty Dalrock should be teaching those Ivy League writing classes damn it!

    You summarized my knowledge of almost 6 years of college studying a Blue Pill topic and surrounded by feminists on all sides in a short paragraph. All they know how to do is bitch and moan. They have no solutions and they don’t want to hear about any solutions. They just want to bitch and moan- and I am talking about the academics, not just women in general although either fits I suppose.

  49. Ras al Ghul says:

    There’s a more fundamental issue for men: Complaining about a child or spouse is disloyal.

    Talking about a concern with a trusted friend is one thing, complaining is disloyalty. Its in fact an act of betrayal.

  50. Opus says:

    @TFH

    It is remarkable and notable in these days when men are often put on the employment scrap-heap at an early age but as someone must work and the wife has a job, the husbands take over the care of the children. The men never complain, in fact they seem to relish their new and unexpected position and do as well if not better than their wives, who now complain about their commutes etc. The authority of a father benefiting the child.

  51. nathanjevans says:

    Talking about a concern with a trusted friend is one thing, complaining is disloyalty. Its in fact an act of betrayal.

    Good point. The first step in a line of more active treason usually starts with bitching and moaning. Even complaining about inside one’s own mind can be dangerous in this regard. It’s just becoming bitter over something you don’t have the guts to confront in person.

    As for children, though, suck it up. What is the point of bitching and moaning about children? It doesn’t seem to serve any sort of useful, even in a mangled way. If the child is misbehaving, punish them appropriately. Otherwise, they are your children!

  52. TFH, I don’t think civilzation will end (per se) and I don’t see women ever becoming re-subjugated. I think it is more that women’s roles and expectations will ever change. And those expectations will continue to balance and rebalance in an ever increasingly unbalanced society.

    As it is right now, if you ask your average 33 year old never-married woman (who desperately wants to be married, but is currently not involved with anyone) if she honestly believes if she will ever BE married, the answer would probably be “no.” Women are conditioning themselves and their expectations towards what society is giving to them. And right now society is increasingly conditioning women to expect that marriage is a luxury for the few. Whole entire subsets of female culture are growing up without any expectation of ever attaining marital bliss. This is a relatively new phenomemon (within the last twenty years or so) but there has been many books writen about this. The data is in. Entire cultures in the inner city and blighted, poverty striken neighborhoods where women live, have generations of women who not only have never been married but they have never even been to a wedding! This was chronicled in Jason DePearl’s amazing book “American Dream.” The result of this data is further action on the part of government to see to it that women who can’t find a husband, get provisioning. And we are slowly being lulled to sleep to expect this behavior with subtle changes to society (such as the ACA.)

    Expect more of this for civilization to proceed. Feminism can’t go to court and sue society for not giving it what it needs to exist. How do feminist women punish men for not marrying them? They can’t really. All they can do is go to some sort of centralized authority (government, the church, the media, higher education, private employers) and try to influence that authority to carry out some kind adjustment to accomidate the needs created by the failing nature of feminism. There are no carrots here for men, only more and more sticks (or larger sticks) with which men will be ever increasinly, beaten. And the men who are beaten the least (or not at all) are either #1) the men who comply and concur with constraints of the feminist imperative the most #2) the men who have found a way to remove themselves from a taxing society that has rejected their needs (MGTOW???), or #3) a combination of #1 & #2 (men like Bill Maher.)

    We can see where this takes us. More action and power will be granted to those in authority who can force the feminist issue. Every single red pill person here on Dalrock’s forum who ever paid as much as dollar of property taxes, has paid at 30 or 40 cents to support a never-married-mom with welfare benefits, section-8 housing, and medical care. None of us would have done that of our own free will if it were up to us bet we weren’t given that choice (a choice that was taken from us only in the last 70 or 80 years.) This happens subtly.

  53. Scott says:

    Every single red pill person here on Dalrock’s forum who ever paid as much as dollar of property taxes, has paid at 30 or 40 cents to support a never-married-mom with welfare benefits, section-8 housing, and medical care

    I often lament to Mychael that I should be getting severel father’s day cards from these children.

  54. Jeremy says:

    Every single red pill person here on Dalrock’s forum who ever paid as much as dollar of property taxes, has paid at 30 or 40 cents to support a never-married-mom with welfare benefits, section-8 housing, and medical care

    Yet another reason to purchase a $20,000 sailboat and live on it. Even if your state forces you to pay property taxes, they’ll be tiny in comparison to others.

  55. Mike says:

    @TFH
    After you read the fall of Rome take a look at this and you will see some similarities. If nothing else it appears nature does have a kill switch for societies and species. If nothing else the appearance of feminism seems to be very close to nature flips that switch

  56. Yoda says:

    Touch a sore spot this thread did.
    And rightly so this is.

  57. The most amazing part of the feminism, the giant elephant in the proverbial room so to speak, is that no matter how society changes and re-aranges the rules to re-balance that which is imbalanced in an effort to accomadate the needs of the feminist imperative, not once does someone in society in authority ever think for one minute what men may want for themselves or why that might be important. And why is that? Well, the desired of women have value and the desires of men do not. The cardinal unspoken virtue of feminism is that men are mules, their only value to society is what they produce not how they think. They must be that way, machines that slave away to produce surplus wealth from which ALL feminists must consume to survive.

  58. So even if men DID complain about taking their daughters to dance class (the way women do in this thread) what would it matter? No one is listening. No one cares. A man’s desire here is of no consequence. Fortunately, men are hardwired to love to do these things for their children. It appears that women who are simmering in the feminist imperative, have brainwashed themselves NOT to value sitting there and watch their daughter’s dance. And (as a result of the feminist imperative) society will once again, change the rules and re-balance things in such a way as the desires of women are validated and empowered and men will (largely) just go with the flow.

  59. anonymous_ng says:

    @Jeremy, there was a time I knew a young man who lived on his dad’s boat docked at one of the marinas on the Chesapeake Bay.

    A quick check showed that a pretty nice boat can be had for $50K.

    Of course, I prefer the mountains…

  60. Cadders says:

    It takes a woman to raise a child.

    It takes a man to raise an adult.

  61. Every single red pill person here on Dalrock’s forum who ever paid as much as dollar of property taxes, has paid at 30 or 40 cents to support a never-married-mom with welfare benefits, section-8 housing, and medical care

    The reality is that we’re paying taxes to support Wall Street bailouts and an oil empire. Far more taxes go to that than a few single moms.

    I say that as someone who earned in the top 15% and paid astonishingly high taxes for most of my career.

    This is a Christian forum particularly interested in Christian marriage. The problem with marriage these days is that people are waiting too long to get married. It’s true, young women are hypergamous, selfish, not particularly interested in the responsibilities of marriage, and suffer from an overabundance of choice.

    But you can hardly blame young foolish women for being young and foolish. We have a culture that is anti-marriage. How many TV shows and movies show an 18 year old getting married and raising a family? None? What social structures exist to support young marriage? None.

    If the TV shows showed 18 year olds marrying their 21 year old boyfriends and having babies, the young women would be lining up to do so. Young women are not nearly as mercenary as some people are making them out to be. Young women are herd creatures that feel peer pressure far more strongly than men do. If they were expected to marry young to the boy next door – they would.

    Instead, they are being encouraged to do everything but that.

    Fix that and most of your problems would go away.

    Why even focus on women over 30? They are a loss; write them off. Save the young (i.e., 18-28) women, they are the only women worth focusing on.

  62. Joe says:

    @AnonymousNG: A quick check showed that a pretty nice boat can be had for $50K. Of course, I prefer the mountains…

    Go out in a $50k sailboat in a heavy blow. You will swear you are in the mountains. 30 feet of water rolling over the bow might as well be 1500. Yeah, risky adventure. Another thing feminists are not down with.

    You owe it to yourself to learn to sail and try the boat. Any reasonably well found sailboat carries with it the implicit potential to cut the strings at any time. I find myself out on the bay or in the Atlantic, thinking, “all I need to do is pack a bit more food next time…” One needn’t permanently leave, but only have the rock solid potential to do so, to feel less trapped.

  63. johnmcg says:

    Yes, instead of complaining about parenting and housework, we complain about our taxes going to support single mothers and their children.

    Not sure that’s an improvement.

  64. Hipster,

    How many TV shows and movies show an 18 year old getting married and raising a family? None? What social structures exist to support young marriage? None.

    Just last week on “The Middle”, second most red-pill program on network television (second only to “The Walking Dead” where there is NO feminism as the feminists are all dead) an almost 18-year-old Sue Heck turned Darrin down on his marriage offer and rejected his engagement ring. She said maybe he is the perfect guy for her and she loves him but she is too young and doesn’t know what she wants yet. She wants to go to college and experience life (ride tha carosel presumably.) “The Middle” was still red pill enough for the writers to have 20 year old Darrin say to Sue “…well I do know what I want and you are what I want. That is why I am dating you. But if you don’t want to get married, then that’s it.” So… yeah.

  65. Pingback: Why don’t dads complain about parenthood like moms… | Honor Dads

  66. Joe,

    Go out in a $50k sailboat in a heavy blow. You will swear you are in the mountains. 30 feet of water rolling over the bow might as well be 1500. Yeah, risky adventure. Another thing feminists are not down with.

    You owe it to yourself to learn to sail and try the boat. Any reasonably well found sailboat carries with it the implicit potential to cut the strings at any time.

    Watch this.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Is_Lost

  67. minuteman says:

    Men don’t complain because looking after our kids is fun and a lot easier than being at work.

  68. Jeremy says:

    “All Is Lost” is sailing by morons. That movie was made by hollywood, and since there’s almost zero dialogue they had to create drama somehow. I could point out hundreds of bad decisions that guy made that led to his situation. The first mistake was solo-sailing across the Pacific. His second mistake was not having a bilge alarm, nor having a working auto bilge pump. Just idiotic to put yourself in that situation.

  69. This is a bullseye on The Practical Conservative. That woman is a full throat complainer about wifing and mothering.

    Men do not complain. Thats why the manosphere is so annoying to them because here men complain about women. Now they are pissed we do not complain about kids?

    Someone has already stated this, I assume, but men also don’t complain because men focus and get crap done. We don’t chase squirrels amidst our chores, or wander into rooms and imagine new drapery, or decide the junk drawer needs to be food grade sterilized at the expense of attending the grocery and doing the laundry. We put the big rocks in first, and if there is time, maybe fill in some of the mid sized ones.

    men are more accustomed to being held accountable to tasks. That we CAN put off shopping or laundry is irrelevant to us, we do those things and bask in their done-ness.

  70. Yoda says:

    Yes, instead of complaining about parenting and housework, we complain about our taxes going to support single mothers and their children.

    Not sure that’s an improvement.

    The “moral equivalence” brigade arrived it has.

  71. Tom C says:

    I think it was Buster B from the Men’s Center who once had a good observation about this. I’m paraphrasing/re-wording because I can’t find it anywhere:

    Men discovered fire, started the agricultural revolution, invented the wheel, commerce, ,industry, automobiles, televisions, refrigerators, built bridges, flew planes, and erected skyscrapers. They created nations and human civilization. Without men, we’d all be living barefoot in mud huts eating grass. Don’t fool yourself, men did it all. I know they did all because I know why they did it:

    To stop women from complaining.

    It didn’t work.

  72. A truism I heard even before I encountered the red pill was: when your wife comes home from work (or elsewhere) and starts complaining about it, don’t offer solutions. She’s not looking for solutions; she’s just looking for someone to listen to her. If you offer solutions, you’ll actually piss her off, because you’re spoiling her enjoyment.

    Women enjoy complaining. It’s that simple. They also don’t like non-participators, because when you don’t participate in the group activity, they feel like you must disapprove of it. So they want the guy to complain with them, so they can enjoy it as usual without feeling like someone disapproves.

    It’s probably good for women to have other women they can complain with, since it seems to help them blow off steam, but it should be away from innocent men and children.

  73. Spike says:

    Rodman might love he “new” era where motherly guilt is diminishing, but sooner or later she will be mugged by inverse-proportional reality:
    When motherly guilt was at its’ highest, families were intact and children thrived. When “mommy guilt” went down, families disintegrate, and children’s futures with them.
    This statistical / demographic bomb is in the process of detonating (or more aptly, it is seeping through Western civilisation like poison gas), so Rodman and feminists like her will have plenty of time to see the results of their collective rescue of some from their “guilt”.
    I imagine they will still blame the patriarchy somehow!

  74. KP says:

    @AnonymousNG — Come to Puget Sound country, you can get both.

  75. KP says:

    Just wondering if I could embed the photo linked above?

  76. KP says:

    Jeremy:
    “All Is Lost” is sailing by morons
    My favorite part was when the boat started to really go down, so he had to rush below and shave.

  77. rusrty fife says:

    “Gunner Q on February 26, 2015 at 10:18 am

    The OP doesn’t want what she’s asking for. Men don’t complain about misbehaving kids because men prefer to punish misbehaving kids.

    I don’t like kids. I tried to learn to like kids by volunteering for things like church groups because “no children” is a marriage dealbreaker for a lot of eligible brides. The attempts never turned out well because the kids had no discipline. No respect.”

    Gunner the problem isn’t children; its other mens’ children you hate. Its like other people’s untrained dogs; they irritate the crap out of me because they don’t behave the way I think they should (my friend’s well trained hunting dogs excepted). Remember, men are like lions; we would just as soon kill another’s child as have to live with it. This is also why your kids are at risk with the live-in boy friend post divorce. I get physically ill thinking about some other guy getting cuckolded.

    ..and feelings are all that really matter, right women?

    Rusty

  78. Spawny Get says:

    The most unrealistic thing about All Is Lost is that such a moron could have made it out of the harbour in the first place. One of the worst films I’ve seen in decades. A guy in a 20 foot diameter neon orange liferaft lights a tiny handflare in daylight. Then at night he finds the rocket flares he should have used earlier, but so late that the ship has passed him by by the time he fires it. Then the signal fire…

    I lost count of the number of times Redford was looking at imminent danger and just…standing there…or emergency shaving before the storm hit (as KP mentioned).

    One hell of a bad film.

  79. Brit Bong says:

    Just because those discussions aren’t taking place somewhere you can see, doesn’t mean they aren’t taking place.
    Additionally, if your coping mechanisms don’t require complaining and you still produce happy, well adjusted children, there is no demonstrable need for a fundamental change in this ‘no complaints here’ attitude.

    What follows is all entirely anecdotal, so give it the credence that quality deserves.
    It may just be an isolated phenomena local to me and my social group…

    While I’ve found it is rare, men do share discussions about this kind of thing.
    Though, they tend to do it with trusted confidants and in my experience they do it with a certain degree of ribbing involved too.
    The joking robs the situation of tension.
    Serious discussion takes placed, mixed in among a lot of boisterous language and pisstaking, but it gets discussed.

    The times I’ve discussed my parental tasks with another man have been infrequent, I’ll admit that.
    So infrequent, I’m having trouble thinking back to the last time I’ve done it.
    It’s not that the bad parts don’t happen, but more that I rarely felt the need (if ever) to bring them up.
    They’re just the occasional frustrating moments of a job that for the most part is pretty good fun.

  80. Oscar says:

    @TFH says:
    February 26, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    “Either civilization will end, or women will become re-subjugated”

    It’s not an either/or proposition. If civilization ended tomorrow, people would return to a tribal, Hobbesian state of nature. which means perpetual warfare. Afghanistan has always existed in this state, which is why Afghan houses are built like fortresses.

    In such a state of perpetual tribal warfare, a woman’s only way to be safe from kidnapping, rape and sexual slavery is to live under the protection of a man who belongs to an armed group of men powerful enough to defend against other powerful, armed groups of men.

    That is why, in Afghanistan, a woman goes from being her father’s property to being her husband’s property, and – in exchange for protection – they’re expected to contribute and earn their keep by serving their male protector and (in the case of the husband) provide him with children.

    If that sounds like heaven to anyone, by all means, travel to Afghanistan. Stay a while. Let us all know what a wonderful place it is to live.

    Anyway, your statement is more accurately rendered…

    “If civilization ends, women will become re-subjugated”.

  81. Lyn87 says:

    Seconded Oscar,

    I, like you, have been to Afghanistan. The most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen in my life was Afghanistan fading into the distance from a window in the cargo bay of the C-17 that was taking me home.

    When the wheels finally come off this ride, it’s is going to suck for everyone, not just women.

  82. DeNihilist says:

    I don’t know guys, according to the critics, it has redefined film making!

  83. greyghost says:

    Just home from work and have not read the comments just the article. This stuff has no end does it Dalrock? Kids don’t act up with their dads. ( Mine didn’t and don’t) My kids were small one in a high chair and we went out to a Chinese food buffet and no issues. The female wait staff hung around and played with the kids. I guess it was the neatest thing they ever saw. I could walk around in Walmart or what ever and never have an issue. people would comment on how good my kids were. When ever the wife called from a store with the kids it was crying and screaming every time. At our church I mentioned this and a lot of the men had basically the same experience. Ask any wife and they would all say they could never leave the kids with their father it would be a disaater or he could never handle it, or something to that effect.
    And now Dalrock has found some mom that hates that. Who would have guessed that would happen? Looks like another dirty little secret Has TFH mentions from time to time is being let out by feminism. And I still catch hell for the idea of surrogacy. Motherhood is a gift a husband gives to his wife. The Christian men here, maginas and white knights and blue pillers in general seem to be the only ones that think mothers are so valuable. Women don’t, not the way you see it. for women it is about motherhood for them. Custody, CS, leverage, the title for the adoration of blue pillers and entitlements, etc. What mother worthy of the title complains about children being children especially one that actually gives a damn about the children themselves. A mother that is in it for the children doesn’t. This chick Dalrock wrote thinks she is great because she has the “courage to complain about her kids. All she has shown me is some chump pissed away his life of a worthless cunt and she is damn proud of it.

  84. Cane Caldo says:

    @Empath

    This is a bullseye on The Practical Conservative. That woman is a full throat complainer about wifing and mothering.

    Her mouth is full of venom.

  85. Oscar says:

    @Lyn87 says:
    February 26, 2015 at 7:57 pm

    “I, like you, have been to Afghanistan. The most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen in my life was Afghanistan fading into the distance from a window in the cargo bay of the C-17 that was taking me home.”

    Leaving Afghanistan the second (and hopefully last) time, I did something uncharacteristic for me. As the HHC commander, I was the last to board, so I stood on the ramp for a second, turned toward the mountains and raised a middle finger. I hope to never see that place again*.

    “When the wheels finally come off this ride, it’s is going to suck for everyone, not just women.”

    I hope that never happens. What scares me most is that my children or grandchildren may have to live through it.

    *I actually think there’s a lot of natural beauty in Afghanistan. It was – for a brief time – an adventure traveler’s paradise, and i can see why. I think it could be a great place to visit, if not for the people.

  86. greyghost says:

    Oscar,lyn87
    You all have that right. That is a horrible way of living and civilized men develop nuclear weapons to avoid that fate. Waiting for a collapse and thinking some woman is going to be nice to you so you will protect her is not going to happen. guys saying that foolishly assume the civilization that allows them to have the resources to play that role will be intact for him and not for her. This is why I like MGTOW, and surrogacy and the wisdom of the red pill explained and guided by Christianity.

  87. Scott says:

    I stood on the ramp for a second, turned toward the mountains and raised a middle finger. I hope to never see that place again*.

    When they switched the lights from red to green (signaling we were free of the war zone) everyone cheered.

  88. Oscar says:

    greyghost says:
    February 26, 2015 at 8:49 pm
    Oscar,lyn87

    “Waiting for a collapse and thinking some woman is going to be nice to you so you will protect her is not going to happen. guys saying that foolishly assume the civilization that allows them to have the resources to play that role will be intact for him and not for her.”

    The boys who think that way probably wouldn’t live long enough to get anything out of it, and probably aren’t tough enough to protect a woman even if they did survive. If they were, women would be attracted to them now.

    If civilization collapses (and I hope it doesn’t), the ones that survive will be the ones that have always survived – family groups that band together for mutual protection, with tough men willing to kill and die for their women and children at the head.

  89. Oscar says:

    Have ya’all seen this? It’s a year old, but this is my first time stumbling across it.

  90. Lyn87 says:

    greyghost,

    I agree. I’m amazed at the “let it burn” mindset. It’s one thing to realize that we can’t save it – it’s another thing to look forward to the inevitable crash like it’s going to be a glorious orgy of schadenfreude. It’s not. The veneer of civilization is pretty thin… just look at how quickly places like Ferguson, MO can turn into no-man’s land, and that’s a fairly mild example. I still remember when the first verdict in the Rodney King case was announced: riots all over… lasting for days. It didn’t surprise me that it happened in L.A., though. We all knew that was going to happen if there was an acquittal. What I remember still today was that there was a riot in Madison, Wisconsin.

    Madison Freakin’ Wisconsin!

    I’ve been in Wisconsin many times. Cows and corn fields. It’s not the sort of place where a casual observer would expect a riot to break out… but there it was. We’re vulnerable to disruptions, and whether it’s ISIS (I’m surprised they or someone like them hasn’t caused some real damage already), or a market crash (Greece could be the domino that drags the whole EU into the muck, which means us, too), or the feminist welfare state finally going belly-up when the checks stop arriving, what follows isn’t going to be some “He-man paradise”… it’s going to be anarchy. And if it’s widespread or long-term anarchy, it’s really going to suck. And while it might be amusing to imagine some hottie that treated them badly showing up and begging for protection on bended knees, it’s much more likely that the knock at the door will be a feral gang looking for booty… both kinds.

    The National Geographic special American Blackout is probably a lot closer to the truth of what we have in store than some fantasy about sitting poolside while the women who spurned them in high school bring drinks and offer sex in exchange for protection, saying how sorry they are for being such bitches.

  91. Luke says:

    Oscar says:
    February 26, 2015 at 9:13 pm
    greyghost says:
    February 26, 2015 at 8:49 pm
    Oscar,lyn87

    “Waiting for a collapse and thinking some woman is going to be nice to you so you will protect her is not going to happen. guys saying that foolishly assume the civilization that allows them to have the resources to play that role will be intact for him and not for her.”

    The boys who think that way probably wouldn’t live long enough to get anything out of it, and probably aren’t tough enough to protect a woman even if they did survive. If they were, women would be attracted to them now.

    If civilization collapses (and I hope it doesn’t), the ones that survive will be the ones that have always survived – family groups that band together for mutual protection, with tough men willing to kill and die for their women and children at the head.”

    You’re forgetting that the current near-equality economically between careerist women and men is in large measure founded on labor-saving machines making mens’ greater physical strength mostly irrelevant, plus all kinds of affirmative action (directly for jobs, in school, and all the worthless to harmful “jobs” created largely for women). All that is gone when TSHTF.

    Out of curiosity, are you familiar with r/K Theory? The men you’re speaking of are very disproportionately K-selected men, who will on average do considerably better relatively in scarcity economies.
    Good summary of r/K Theory here; http://anonymousconservative.com/

  92. Drew says:

    First, thanks for this blog. It’s been a great help over the years both for the quality of the insight and for keeping me from doubting my own sanity.

    Anyway, I wanted to share this article, “The Failure of Macho Christianity,” and ask for your thoughts about it. I’ve read some decent stuff by Elizabeth Stoker-Bruenig and do find myself in sympathy with some of her views on income inequality and social and economic policy. She’s quite popular among certain conservative Catholic circles, too, which is how I first encountered her.

  93. I love how men generally don’t complain… it is definitely one of the admirable traits.

    “Do everything without grumbling and arguing, so that you may be blameless and pure, children of God who are faultless in a crooked and perverted generation, among whom you shine like stars in the world.” Philippians 2:14-15

    http://girlwithadragonflytattoo.com/2014/03/12/complaining-is-not-a-virtue/

  94. @Oscar, I wrote about Maria Kang a while ago… felt so bad for her with all the hate she received for being fit and trying to inspire other women.

    http://girlwithadragonflytattoo.com/2014/07/24/does-our-society-expect-women-to-apologize-for-being-fit-healthy/

    When I lost all the pregnancy weight after this new baby – and after only 2 weeks… I even had FRIENDS tell me that I was shaming other women. I was like ?!?!?!?!

  95. JDG says:

    South Korea decriminalizes adultery, condom shares soar

    Another step down into the Abyss.

  96. Luke says:

    sonofdeathswriter says:
    February 26, 2015 at 8:25 am

    “Soon to be dad since we are adopting a boy, I have fun parenting. There isn’t any point of dreading it and concentrating on my own thing when I have a responsibility and what I have to do can wait or isn’t that important.”

    Don’t do it. Seriously, DON’T. You’re more likely than not to find yourself frivorced a few years from now paying child support for close to two decades (forgot about private college and law school costs? The court won’t.) on a child you hardly ever see (so can’t influence his raising). I’m saying this as a man who finds his fatherhood deeply meaningful, but whose marriage is seriously affected by the frivorce threatpoint.

    Better to do what Toban Morrison did, with staying unmarried and using an egg donor/gestational surrogate to have a child without risk of frivorce theft (as long as he stays wise enough to NEVER let a romantic partner legally adopt it).

  97. anonymous_ng says:

    I try and point folks who romanticize societal collapse to Fernando’s blog. ferfal.blogspot.com

    There is a lot to wade through, but his experience and perspective of someone on the ground whilst his society slid into collapse is sobering. It becomes pretty clear why he left and moved to Ireland.

  98. greyghost says:

    http://shtfschool.com/ This blog here is from a guy that went thru the break up of Yugoslavia. Horrible blog on what SHTF is.

  99. Oscar says:

    @Lyn87 says:
    February 26, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    “what follows isn’t going to be some ‘He-man paradise’… it’s going to be anarchy.”

    Anarchy IS “He-man paradise”… more specifically, “EVIL-He-man paradise”.

    “And while it might be amusing to imagine some hottie that treated them badly showing up and begging for protection on bended knees, it’s much more likely that the knock at the door will be a feral gang looking for booty… both kinds.”

    Yep. Just like Afghanistan.

  100. Oscar says:

    Luke says:
    February 26, 2015 at 9:30 pm

    “You’re forgetting that the current near-equality economically between careerist women and men is in large measure founded on labor-saving machines making mens’ greater physical strength mostly irrelevant, plus all kinds of affirmative action (directly for jobs, in school, and all the worthless to harmful “jobs” created largely for women). All that is gone when TSHTF.”

    You’re forgetting that few men these days are tough enough to live without that technology, much less protect anyone else.

    “Out of curiosity, are you familiar with r/K Theory? The men you’re speaking of are very disproportionately K-selected men, who will on average do considerably better relatively in scarcity economies.
    Good summary of r/K Theory here; http://anonymousconservative.com/

    I’m somewhat familiar with r/K Theory. Which men are you referencing?

  101. Jeremy says:

    Actually, my favorite part was when Redford’s character decides that being in an emergency situation, alone, in the middle of the ocean, with a low pressure bearing down on him is the time to solo-climb his mast to jury rig a VHF antenna… forget improving bouyancy, forget comfort, no no, that’s the time to risk your life to diagnose your radio problems.

    They did it for the cinematography, but holy shit I can’t imagine anything so stupid. Solo-climbing your mast is something you do in calm water, and with people around.

  102. Oscar says:

    @girlwithadragonflytattoo says:
    February 26, 2015 at 9:42 pm

    “@Oscar, I wrote about Maria Kang a while ago… felt so bad for her with all the hate she received for being fit and trying to inspire other women.”

    Good post! Ironically, I wrote about Tracy Anderson here.

    http://snowgoosechronicles.blogspot.com/2013/11/keeping-men-weak.html

    Unfortunately, I doubt you’ll like it.

  103. Oscar says:

    @anonymous_ng says:
    February 26, 2015 at 10:15 pm

    “I try and point folks who romanticize societal collapse to Fernando’s blog. ferfal.blogspot.com”

    Only evil men benefit from societal collapse. Not that Somalia had far to fall, but the example that springs to mind is Mohammed Aidid. He exploited the Somali civil war in the early ’90s and drove the situation into further anarchy by stealing UN food shipments. Hundreds of thousands starved to death, but it made Aidid a powerful warlord.

    Even so, he lived by the gun and died by the gun.

  104. Luke says:

    Oscar says:

    Good summary of r/K Theory here; http://anonymousconservative.com/”

    “I’m somewhat familiar with r/K Theory. Which men are you referencing?”

    The men who look forward to some aspects of the coming societal reset have K values, the men whom you disparaged earlier in this thread.

  105. It’s also different coping mechanisms. Before the cult-of-self, women typically would complain about every tiny aspect of their troubles to their close social circle as a way of offloading their distress, anger or confusion and moving on. Men typically share their woes with their wife and/or their best friend and then move on. When women typically complain, it is getting any problems out in the open and going into them in detail so as to move on. When men typically complain, it is making their nearest and dearest aware of their trouble and then coping with the nuances themselves.

    Of course, in a highly connected, ego-feeding, genderbent world those mechanisms may not actually be working as intended. But they are both fully functional in societies yet to adopt our levels of net obsession.

  106. john says:

    @dalrock
    A bit off topic
    An article about the girls that want to hook-up with ISIS fighters because they think is like a romantic adventure would be cool.

  107. Don’t worry Luke, Oscar is perfect in everything. Every other man is a failure.

    He is certainly quite one dimensional though. His thoughts are of a one track mind. Societal collapse will be bad but it depends on how much societal collapse actually happens. Anyone can take advantage of the change in status quo, that doesn’t make them evil or good.

    Anarchy is really just the absence of government, if you had moral and Godly people, it might work out better than the tyranny of government you have now.

    We all die Oscar, I would rather die doing something that gave me purpose than living in the so called ‘civilisation’ we have now. Never mind that many great men have come around exactly due to societal collapse. It generates the need for the normal man to stand up and do something.

  108. MarcusD says:

    Not quite “CAF Classic” quality, but interesting nonetheless:

    Why I deeply dislike your older boyfriend
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=948336

  109. I actually think there’s a lot of natural beauty in Afghanistan. It was – for a brief time – an adventure traveler’s paradise, and i can see why. I think it could be a great place to visit, if not for the people.

    Afghanistan was quite the paradise before being invading by Russia and then by America. For a ‘backward and inbred’ people, they sure seem to have given a good backhand to both evil empires of the USSR and the USSA.

    You go through over 10 years of war, following another war 10 years earlier, and see how well your country would be doing!

  110. greyghost says:

    feministhater
    That is not going unnoticed. The world is seeing men with nothing stand up to technology and survive against all odds.

  111. Opus says:

    Let us not forget that in 1842 the Afghan’s destroyed an entire British Army – the victors of Waterloo – under the hapless General Elphinstone. Of fifteen thousand men women and children only one man came out alive.

    You would think after that and the Russian disaster and your Pentagon people might have taken notice.

  112. earl says:

    ‘You would think after that and the Russian disaster and your Pentagon people might have taken notice.’

    Nah…I’m sure those in the Pentagon felt they just didn’t do it the right way.

    Or they are ignorant about history.

  113. Elspeth says:

    Since I’m going radio silent tomorrow, I’m gonna throw this one out there on my way out the door.

    The Practical Conservative laments the dearth of community among conservatives who wax on about how important it is for women to stay home and have lots of babies, while being unwilling to put our money where our mouths are and support such a model. In other words, not being willing to sacrifice a significant amount of material and technological comfort (moving if necessary) to build communities with like minded people devoted to faith and family formation.

    She posits that a lot of the burnout that mothers experience is rooted not in the work, but in the isolation in which they do it and lack of respite that would be present if conservatives valued the domestic sphere they way we claim to. For example, and I don’t know how true this is, the fact that even 2 generations ago it would have been ludicrous for anyone to expect a woman to try and grocery shop with 3 or more little kids in tow.

    Now what I have found (and she knows this full well) is that the lack of community isn’t as bad where we are as she complains about where she is, even though we’re in the city and she is in a rural area. I say this living in a fairly liberal, diverse state (at least once you get out of the panhandle where we do not live), and where you’d think it would be hard to find any semblance of Christian community. It’s not been all that hard once I displayed a willingness to get out and to connect with other women. If I had little babies, I can think easily of at least two women, perhaps 3, I could call on and they would help me out no questions asked. One in particular texts and ask me: “Do you need help with this or that?”

    The problem though, as TPC sees it, is that when you have 3 young children under 3, when are you supposed to do that? If even the women at church are not available due to jobs, or what have you, then you are pretty much on your own. She has a point, and the point is that it shouldn’t be this way among people who claim to embrace the Biblical role of women as the bearers of life and keepers of the home.

    My only issue with the frequent lamenting is that it is a very small time window on the child rearing journey. Even if you have 5, 6 or 7 kids, with 2 to 3 years between births (which is the more typical spacing since few women seem to use their fecundity the way TPC and I did), then at the very least you have children who can contribute at least in small ways within 6 years.

    But most complaining women hold that relatively short time window (sleep deprived and somewhat harried) up as the normal way of life for mothers when it just isn’t the case. It does get better and much easier, and those years go by very quickly even as the days feel very long.

    The best course of action is to prayerfully try and learn not to complain, plug n with a community as early as is humanly possible and build relationships the best we can, because most conservatives are as modernist as everyone else. Regardless of what we say on the Internet.

  114. Oscar says:

    @Luke says:
    February 27, 2015 at 12:37 am

    Your link returned a 404 message, so I googled R/K to re-familiarize myself with it, and I don’t completely understand. For example:

    “The men who look forward to some aspects of the coming societal reset have K values, the men whom you disparaged earlier in this thread.”

    Does that mean K values necessarily result in men who are too soft to survive chaos but too solipsistic to realize it?

    By the way, I think it was TFH that provided a link to “SHTF School”. I read the first blog post and it contains a very vivid description of what happens (purportedly from first hand experience).

    http://shtfschool.com/survival-psychology/strategic-savagery-how-to-use-terror/

    “Of course different people react in different ways, so some guys will break down or give up even before fight, without single bullet flying through the air.

    Some guys will even surrender without fight and beg for mercy, even they listened stories about „no prisoners“ for weeks. Often they are the people who can not imagine how truly evil people act. They think because they would not kill and torture other people they do not know nobody would.”

    That pretty much describes it.

  115. The Practical Conservative laments the dearth of community among conservatives who wax on about how important it is for women to stay home and have lots of babies, while being unwilling to put our money where our mouths are and support such a model. In other words, not being willing to sacrifice a significant amount of material and technological comfort (moving if necessary) to build communities with like minded people devoted to faith and family formation.

    I don’t get it E. Put our money where our mouths are? Support such a model? Move and form communities? Can you not see the problems with these words? TPC is anything but practical and conservative. She is the millennial harkening for some sudden bend in space time to suddenly create what amounts to communes. Her laments are complaints and they are not rooted in reality.

    Sure I get it that shopping with little kids is harder than taking the harvest and working your own canning, your own preserving, and cellaring. Not.

    She overstates her case for her imagined hypocrisies amongst conservative cohorts decrying low birth rates and celebrating SAHMs because she uses the extreme quiver full types as that against which she juxtaposes. Then she foists that onto regular people who are not activists or agitators to those things at all. The veneer of validity to her complaints is transparent thin.

    She is too clever by half in her wording.

  116. Opus says:

    @Elspeth

    Notice the implication that SAHMs are in some way suffering from not having a large social group to natter with. Do men ever complain if their life is somewhat isolated? At least women have children to babble with.

  117. Oscar says:

    @feministhater says:
    February 27, 2015 at 1:22 am

    “Don’t worry Luke, Oscar is perfect in everything. Every other man is a failure.”

    There you go again, trying to read minds. In reality, there appear to be many successful men on this blog.

    “Anarchy is really just the absence of government, if you had moral and Godly people, it might work out better than the tyranny of government you have now.”

    Talk about a big “if”.

    “We all die Oscar”

    How much death have you been near?

    “I would rather die doing something that gave me purpose than living in the so called ‘civilisation’ we have now. Never mind that many great men have come around exactly due to societal collapse. It generates the need for the normal man to stand up and do something.”

    Maybe you should try “standing up and doing something” now, rather than wallowing in self-pity, “anger and bitterness”. Nobody’s stopping you.

  118. Elspeth says:

    @ Empath:

    I agree that much of it is impractical, but extreme rhetoric (such that many online conservatives parrot) should denote an understanding that the life one extols might require extreme -impractical- action.

    TPC’s husband did just that. My husband is not interested in the fantasy of a conservative utopia, so we’re blooming where we’re planted.

  119. Phillyastro says:

    OT- Time to pack the blog in. It doesn’t matter what you’re arguing, apparently everything you know about your religion is wrong:

    http://www.salon.com/2015/02/27/9_things_you_think_you_know_about_jesus_that_are_probably_wrong_partner/

  120. BradA says:

    Mike,

    From my personal experience I’ve come to the conclusion that when it comes to raising a child a women’s job is done at about the age of 5 or 6. From that point on it’s the job of the father and to some extent the extended family ( grandparents, uncles, brothers and coaches or mentors).

    That is as bogus as claiming the father’s role is unnecessary before this point. Both parents have their unique and valuable roles, throughout a child’s life. It never goes away.

    We may pervert it today, but that is just that, perversion.

    Opus,

    The men never complain, in fact they seem to relish their new and unexpected position and do as well if not better than their wives, who now complain about their commutes etc.

    SAHDs may not generally complain as much, but all do not “do as good a job” as what should be done. They may or may not do as well as their wives would, but some of that is due to a lowered expectation on women, as Dalrock points to in the OP.

    All SAHDs are not good at what they do either.

    IBB,

    I don’t think civilzation will end (per se) and I don’t see women ever becoming re-subjugated. I think it is more that women’s roles and expectations will ever change. And those expectations will continue to balance and rebalance in an ever increasingly unbalanced society.

    None of us knows exactly how things will be. Who would have exhaustively predicted all we have now? The trends were there, but life works out differently than we feel. This sounds like what my wife often claims. I point out that “what can’t continue won’t continue.” Things will change to something more sustainable. This is an aberration and things will not remain this way forever.

    The trip to something more stable may be nasty though.

  121. Scott says:

    That is not going unnoticed. The world is seeing men with nothing stand up to technology and survive against all odds.

    Long, but relevant. Not everybody likes Micahel Yon, I get it. But this post is a fantastic exploration of what you are talking about. I was in Afghanistan when the post was written. I was there when SSG Bales shot up that village. I met the real “Sgt Godsmack” at the time.

    http://michaelyon-online.com/sergeant-godsmack-vs-nazar.htm

    Our enemies are just tougher than us. Period.

  122. Joe says:

    Just two points – All is Lost is one of the two movies in the last 20 years that was so excruciatingly bad I shut the movie off.

    Second – on places like Iraq and Afghanistan, or Rwanda, or Bosnia when there was a lot of shooting and rape camp – you don’t appreciate your easy fatass life in the west until you spend time there. One of the distinct pleasures in my life was having a dysentery-like sub saharan stomach bug as we convoyed out of Iraq in ’91. Every half hour, I had to take a volcanic dump on that hellhole. There were probably a dozen of us in the battalion with the same problem, likely from local national contractor-provided food, and while the majors and colonels would normally be upset about troops hanging off the running boards of moving deuce and a halfs to spray out a deuce and a half, right onto the MSR, they didn’t say a think about it. I’m sure they felt some envy at troops who could shit all over that place practically at will.

  123. Scott says:

    Joe has a way with words.

  124. Elspeth says:

    @ Opus:

    It’s not about having someone to natter about with. It’s about the fact that even a cursory reading of the NT makes it glaringly obvious that we need to support one another, share lives, and have accountability with one another in a way that cannot be accomplished living the atomized lifestyle we’ve all become accustomed to.

    The absolute best way for us to keep our weaknesses and sins hidden (as well as our strengths and triumphs) is to live void of community. Titus 2 says that not only women, but men need close relationships with other believers.

    Women, being more social than men (there’s that pesky femininity again that people simultaneously desire and deride) do better, perform better, and are more emotionally balanced when we have others to help and receive help from.

    Not to mention that we give our husbands far less grief is we are wise in choosing that network of support. Fortunately I had a woman in my life who would call me out on my foolishness rather than commiserate and prop me up in it. It really does happen! Choose the wrong women as friends and….yeah it’s a problem. But it’s also a problem to have no one for 10-12 hours a day, 5-6 days a week, but children under 3 or 4, no matter how much you love them.

  125. BradA says:

    Hipster,

    Why even focus on women over 30?

    Because that is how you change the attitudes of those that are younger.

    Greyghost,

    And I still catch hell for the idea of surrogacy.

    A bad idea doesn’t make another idea good.

    Bitchy mothers don’t make it right to have no mothers. The proper answer is to fix the former, not jump to the latter.

  126. @Lyn87, as a believer I know it’s going to burn. At some point it’s going to be God’s mercy that it burns. We can see in the lead up to the Ark the heart of Noah calling the people to repentance, not gloating. We see in Jeremiah a man who knew that the Babylonians were coming and that God sent them to “cleanse” Judah, he lamented.Striking a balance between hating the evil and loving the humanity that Jesus died on the Cross for can be difficult. He didn’t die for our civilization, He died for the people inhabiting it despite it.

  127. Boxer says:

    And I still catch hell for the idea of surrogacy.

    You guys who promote this get disagreed with. It’s not personal. I’d be glad to buy Grey Ghost a beer, next time I’m in Tejas, and we can argue face to face in good humor.

    Bitchy mothers don’t make it right to have no mothers. The proper answer is to fix the former, not jump to the latter.

    I’m sure the Paul Elam types will shudder at this idea, but I’ll throw it out anyway: Men aren’t as good at parenting as women are, especially with very young kids. Speaking in broad generalities, mind you.

    (Of course there are individual men who I’m sure are great stay at home dads, and there are capable women who work on oil rigs, too. On average men don’t do quite as good a job at tending to young kids as women do. End of disclaimer for the outragists, who will get all upset at me anyway.)

    I don’t see why we need to go experimenting around with all sorts of beep-boop sexbot and surrogacy ideas, when we have a time-tested method that worked for thousands of years, namely patriarchy and monogamy. There are downsides to it, but it’s the least worst of all the social orders we actually know about.

    Boxer

  128. Scott says:

    (Of course there are individual men who I’m sure are great stay at home dads, and there are capable women who work on oil rigs, too. On average men don’t do quite as good a job at tending to young kids as women do. End of disclaimer for the outragists, who will get all upset at me anyway.)

    Boxer, I would make a suggestion.

    I have been on a crusade to stop making these kinds of disclaimers. We all know what you meant. We all know you were talking in generalities. That’s how life works. Schemas like this are how we navigate through a complex world that would be impossible to make sense of if we had to take every single case one at a time.

    I absolutely refuse to say things like “I’m no racist, but” or “I know there are esceptions to this, but” and so on. I just won’t do it. Someone has to start talking like grown ups again. No equivocating.

    Will you join me?

  129. desiderian says:

    Dal,

    “I would say instead that feminists wish they could be men, but since they can’t be men they don’t want men to be able to either. Neither wish can ever come true.”

    (a) this is correct, and also profound. It’s the key to helping non-feminist women recognize the influence of feminism in their own thinking, a point which you’ve identified before.

    (b) not at all to let feminists themselves off-the-hook, but in the interest of killing it in the crib, I think it’s also important to recognize that many feminists get that wish from parents (including, and often principally, fathers) who wished to have sons (to carry on the family name/honor etc…) but due to smaller family sizes were not able to.

  130. desiderian says:

    Scott,

    “Will you join me?”

    Already did. Carry on, soldier.

  131. Cane Caldo says:

    @Elspeth

    I agree that much of it is impractical, but extreme rhetoric (such that many online conservatives parrot) should denote an understanding that the life one extols might require extreme -impractical- action.

    I will agree that she is a warning to those men who believe that isolation is a solution to the problems of the world, and especially women.

    Regardless, she only bashes on people, and when she agrees with someone it is only to highlight how stupid other are. Her problem isn’t centered on her husband.

    @Empath

    TPC is anything but practical and conservative.

    Her problem is that–like everyone–she gravitates towards those like herself. Since she is a miser and reviler, she is continually left alone. A perfect picture of why conservatives (as a group or movement) fail even when they rightly see the problems.

  132. Cane Caldo says:

    @Scott

    I absolutely refuse to say things like “I’m no racist, but” or “I know there are esceptions to this, but” and so on. I just won’t do it. Someone has to start talking like grown ups again. No equivocating.

    There are some times when it is appropriate, but your sentiment is right-on. Breaking the over-qualification habit will also prompt the habit of better saying at first what one means at last.

    @Desi

    not at all to let feminists themselves off-the-hook

    Because we understand those parents are feminists.

  133. desiderian says:

    Elspeth,

    “It’s about the fact that even a cursory reading of the NT makes it glaringly obvious that we need to support one another, share lives, and have accountability with one another in a way that cannot be accomplished living the atomized lifestyle we’ve all become accustomed to.”

    Of course. Keep in mind that in dealing with the dissident right you’re dealing with people whose traditional accountability networks have been comprised by malevolent forces that, with increasing boldness, wish us no good. Those in the clutches of those forces, like Gregoire, “freed” thereby from any accountability at all, can be seen to be losing their minds.

    The rest of us have perhaps “atomized” ourselves in one way another from the abuse, but we also are patching together new networks. The groundwork for those is trust and loyalty and forbearance. Accountability is one of the fruits of that labor. It will come in season.

  134. Dalrock says:

    @desiderian

    (a) this is correct, and also profound. It’s the key to helping non-feminist women recognize the influence of feminism in their own thinking, a point which you’ve identified before.

    Thank you.

    (b) not at all to let feminists themselves off-the-hook, but in the interest of killing it in the crib, I think it’s also important to recognize that many feminists get that wish from parents (including, and often principally, fathers) who wished to have sons (to carry on the family name/honor etc…) but due to smaller family sizes were not able to.

    Indeed. I touched on this here. I also saw another commercial with the same message which as I understand it premiered during the superbowl.

  135. desiderian says:

    “Because we understand those parents are feminists.”

    That’s an awful broad brush. This particular action, especially unexamined, does have that effect. A focus on the action may be more fruitful.

  136. Cane Caldo says:

    @Desi

    The rest of us have perhaps “atomized” ourselves in one way another from the abuse, but we also are patching together new networks. The groundwork for those is trust and loyalty and forbearance. Accountability is one of the fruits of that labor. It will come in season.

    On fire today.

  137. Cane Caldo says:

    @Desi

    That’s an awful broad brush. This particular action, especially unexamined, does have that effect. A focus on the action may be more fruitful.

    If the actions are feminist, then we should recognize the tree by the fruits. Don’t we do this in ourselves, as well?

  138. desiderian says:

    It’s widely understood as an identity that determines what team one is on (i.e. which support network one trusts). I don’t allow any professed feminists* in my support network, despite having several in my extended family, peer/professional/social circle, church etc… As Dalrock notes, non-feminists doing feminist things/thinking in feminist ways is a problem, but that doesn’t make people with that problem feminists.

    * – ok, none under 50. Some older feminists keep the label just because they’re old and set in their ways. Anyway, they’ve gotten to the point where they miss masculinity now and respond appropriately to it.

  139. desiderian says:

    Dal,

    “I touched on this here.”

    Yeah, that’s why I wanted to highlight the connection to feminism being about wanting to be a man. Where that comes from is a narrative the different parties that need to get on board to get things going in a better direction can share responsibility together for making that happen. Plus, the kind of people who unwittingly* created the problem in the first place are the kind who like finding abstract social forces driving things (smaller family sizes) and also tend to be aghast at the idea of trying to make their children something for their own benefit. Especially daughters.

    I think it’s a sin that can be safely named and widely confessed to.

    * – obviously the Lord of Lies was in there too fanning the flames with all his wits

  140. greyghost says:

    Bitchy mothers don’t make it right to have no mothers. The proper answer is to fix the former, …….

    That is how you fix it. Motherhood is an unfair burden until it is taken from them as in have children with out her. Motherhood becomes wonderful and if done right is actually appreciated.

  141. Elspeth says:

    The rest of us have perhaps “atomized” ourselves in one way another from the abuse, but we also are patching together new networks.

    I hope that this is true. What I have found is that the creation of said networks often demands that we 1) accept that other people are as flawed as we are, 2) that our ideology cannot be our god, and 3) that we have to be willing to be up front about what we believe.

    I have been floored by some of the responses I have received from other Christian women that I would have written off even two years ago based on a knee jerk reaction to something they said or did that I don’t agree with.

    It often seems that the more rigid we are in our insistence about things that aren’t integral to The Faith, the more atomized we become. So if these networks are truly being built, I sincerely am thankful to God for it because we cannot walk this walk alone, and we cannot find real community solely online, and sometimes we actually need someone else to come alongside and *gasp* help us out, even though we are ruggedly independent, exceptional, American Christians.

  142. Jeremy says:

    @Boxer says:

    I’m sure the Paul Elam types will shudder at this idea, but I’ll throw it out anyway: Men aren’t as good at parenting as women are, especially with very young kids. Speaking in broad generalities, mind you.

    I’m chafing on both counts. On the second one… men are every bit as good at parenting as women are, but the examples that children need to find their role in the world must come from two different roles. You wouldn’t expect a mother to use brutal and firm honesty with a child just as you wouldn’t expect a father to wet nurse. The child must understand both that it is worthy of love (from mom), and that it must self-protect (from dad) or the world will be a very bad place to learn those lessons the hard way. I would think the effects of single motherhood would be clear enough to demonstrate the necessity of both sides, and the clear definition of the roles exemplified.

  143. herbie31 says:

    Maybe its already been said a few times, but the reason men don’t complain as much about parenting(or in general) is that their natural leadership qualities don’t permit it. I think its as simple as that.

  144. BradA says:

    That is how you fix it. Motherhood is an unfair burden until it is taken from them as in have children with out her. Motherhood becomes wonderful and if done right is actually appreciated.

    That sounds like my mother telling me she divorced my dad because he didn’t spend enough time with my sister and I. You probably believe it, but it is the exact opposite of truth. You don’t even walk it out in your own life, but you proclaim that locking women out of motherhood is the way to keep them from being mothers.

    Not only doesn’t that make sense, it is not right. Intentionally depriving a child of either parent is immoral and wrong.

  145. lgrobins says:

    “I am a single father, half-time. Men don’t complain because being a parent is 99% fun, and we love it. Deal with it feminist morons. The feminists are desperate to portray everything a woman does as overwhelmingly difficult, what a huge steaming pile of crap.”

    Of course being a parent is 99% fun if you only have them HALF-TIME. Let’s see you have maybe three nights a week off and when you do have them in your care they are most likely at government schooling and you are at work all day. So, the actual hours spent together are small. Most likely the hard parts about parenting is handled by someone else. Its like childcare workers who proclaim, “I love children, they are so much fun.” Well, yes when its an 8-5 job and at the end of the day they are no longer your responsibility. Same thing with grandparents; they too would say children are 99% fun, but they also don’t have them all the time. If its 99% fun then you are your child’s friend, not parent. It is statements like these that market parenthood as a fairytale. No different than were it to be said marriage is 99% fun. Both take a lot of work and discipline.

    As far as all this TPC talk, let the record stand–men, not catfighting women, started the gossip.

  146. Lyn87 says:

    No different than were it to be said marriage is 99% fun. Both take a lot of work and discipline. – LGR

    99% fun… no, or course not. And obviously Steve Brulé was exaggerating to make a point. As for marriage…

    If marriage takes an inordinate amount of work, you probably married the wrong person. If it takes an inordinate amount of discipline, you probably are the wrong person.

  147. JDG says:

    lgrobins says:
    February 27, 2015 at 8:12 pm

    I call BS.

    The hours I spend with my son are many, not few. Not half time, but nearly every waking hour I am not at work. Fun doesn’t really describe it enough. It is purposeful, edifying, and rewarding. Maybe, like gossip, it really is a female thing.

  148. greyghost says:

    BradA You are not applying female nature. A wife is more affectionate towards her husband when other women find him attractive Women in general are better mothers when they can be stepped around. There is no individual man fix at a micro level other than MGTOW by that particular man. He just doesn’t play the game period.
    Look just as war is not a life style choice that is sustainable (even a cold war) War does work at changing attitudes. MGTOW, surrogacy, PUA, “grass eating” etc. are not sustainable for a thriving civilization and as war with out the blood shed will likely change attitudes. This is the nice guy way to go to achieve something along the lines of the patriarchy and actual Christian family structure. Otherwise it is let it collapse and get the rifles out and get down . Maybe the guys with the Christian family structure non PC types win the power that comes from the barrel of the gun. . (I didn’t say Christians on purpose) Terrence Pop has a video that at the front end shows what a collapse and those that prevail look like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9zp6kyIcWo I don’t see “Christian” men having the ability to even stand up to such men much less do what these men are doing to prevail.

  149. lgrobins says:

    “Not half time, but nearly every waking hour I am not at work..”

    Which again is what makes it 99% fun for you. You don’t have your child 24/7 around the clock (at work), like some SAHMS. Why do so many women want to rush back to work, to careers? Cause its 100 times easier to go sit at a desk.

    So, if I said its only 90% fun does that make me a bad mom? See the problem here is unless women are smiling and happy happy about parenting 100% of the time, they are seen as inadequate, lazy, not doing it right.

  150. @lgrobins

    I don’t know… my husband, though he does work obviously, when he is with our son (and now the baby also) for a long time, he just still does not complain. I’m the one with the tendency to let the little things add up over time and start becoming grumpy or catty and … I used to joke with him that I really did love to complain (because I really did… it was like a hobby). I’m part Jewish, so he would tease me about that – how horribly the Jews complained. But as a whole, I’ve found that women complain WAY more than men do about parenting. And it’s horrible, because we complain about the very people we’re supposed to love unconditionally (our children)! It just shows that even our best efforts aren’t “enough,” that we’re ALL still sinful… and that at the very base of the problem, we are very very selfish creatures.

    My husband just doesn’t complain (or feel the tendency to/urge to) like I do about our kids or parenting. Even if he was with them 24-7, I don’t think he’d complain very much if at all. Not that he’s some saint🙂 but he just accepts that it’s hard. For me, it was like I expected too much… and that’s what I see with my mommy friends that are around my age – we EXPECT it to be perfect, and then we fall into resentment or complaining, or worse: depression when it is hard. The best thing to combat that? Constantly be in the Word, every morning, be thankful in everything, always try to be joyful… basically… consciously go against those feelings that are (at the base of it) sinful and selfish.

  151. Boxer says:

    Dear Jeremy:

    I’m chafing on both counts. On the second one… men are every bit as good at parenting as women are

    The data suggests otherwise, and it doesn’t care about your hurt feelings.

    http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/28632/0000446.pdf?sequence=1

    I have no doubt that you are a competent parent, but re-read my disclaimer. I’m talking about sex-specific differences in populations. They exist, and they favor women in the category of childcare.

    Best,

    Boxer

  152. @Boxer (side note: I love reading your comments) My brother, (24), has just graduated with his teaching degree – he’s awesome, has recently transformed himself with game and confidence in the past year or so… and has been subbing until he gets on as a full-time teacher. He’s perfect at dealing with middle schoolers – he takes no crap from them and makes them get their work done… the principal of one of the schools (on our city’s hard/poor side where the kids are extremely rough) saw him in action and loved him so much, they told him he was going to be staying – and have called him back repeatedly to sub there.

    Just this last week, he tried subbing for first graders😀 He came out of there shell-shocked (granted they were out of control – and probably not at all “normal” behavior for most first grade classes), but we found it **hilarious** his reaction to the little kids, versus how he commands perfection almost with the (notoriously difficult) middle schoolers.

    Everyone hates middle schoolers… but his reaction to the “little terrors” was priceless! Loved it!

  153. JDG says:

    Why do so many women want to rush back to work, to careers? Cause its 100 times easier to go sit at a desk.

    There’s also a perverted sense of status that draws them, but I can see where a lot of jobs that woman have are easier for them than taking care of their own kids (especially if they’re selfish feminazis), and taking care of kids is EASY. It’s just that a lot (and I mean a lot) of jobs that women have are even easier.

    So, if I said its only 90% fun does that make me a bad mom?

    You don’t have to enjoy doing what needs to be done to be a good mom, you just have to do it. Enjoying it is a plus for you.

  154. Luke says:

    Scott says:
    February 27, 2015 at 8:29 am
    “That is not going unnoticed. The world is seeing men with nothing stand up to technology and survive against all odds.

    Long, but relevant. Not everybody likes Micahel Yon, I get it. But this post is a fantastic exploration of what you are talking about. I was in Afghanistan when the post was written. I was there when SSG Bales shot up that village. I met the real “Sgt Godsmack” at the time.

    http://michaelyon-online.com/sergeant-godsmack-vs-nazar.htm

    Our enemies are just tougher than us. Period.”

    Not so. Read Victor Davis Hanson’s book “Carnage and Culture”, and you’ll forever lose attraction to that fallacy.

  155. Cane Caldo says:

    @lgrobins

    As far as all this TPC talk, let the record stand–men, not catfighting women, started the gossip.

    Let the record reflect that men–not merely catfighting women–spoke truth in public after long deliberations trying to unload that donkey from her burdens. There are a lot of women near here who lack understanding and are deceived about little things, yet think they should pronounce on big things; who need to stop failing to educate, and start succeeding at being educated.

  156. Dale says:

    GunnerQ
    >The Church’s hostility towards men runs deep. They say they want us to show up and help out but they don’t, not really.

    You are on fire with some great insights. It seems to me that the pastors have their own idea of what is best, and if you are helping them, great. If you want to suggest correction from the Bible to the pastors, then that is not really helpful.

    >Heck, there’ll be one last gigantic cycle AFTER Christ returns. Even our Savior doesn’t get to miss the fun of hamsters with matches.

    I also have wondered how people could rebel against God after a thousand years of righteous rule. What is it with people???

    @girlwithadragonflytattoo
    >When I lost all the pregnancy weight after this new baby – and after only 2 weeks… I even had FRIENDS tell me that I was shaming other women. I was like ?!?!?!?!

    Well, duh! You were! They wanted to be comfortable in their sloth and gluttony, with the comforting lie that “they have no choice” as cover/excuse for the bad results. Your example of a healthy weight within weeks either showed that you are an extreme exception, or that their claim that they cannot possibly return quickly to a normal weight after no longer being pregnant is a lie. And your success where they chose to fail gave them shame. Your words were not needed; the righteous example was sufficient to cause problems. Titus 2:6-8 talk about Titus being an example of what is good.
    Obesity is one area where both men and women lie however. Even on this forum, men have suggested genetics as an excuse for being overweight. I am sad to see that men who are quick to point out the problems that result due to lack of self-control from women (e.g. consequences of frivorce) are slow to admit that problems result from a man’s lack of self control. Speck and plank I guess. Matt 6:1-6. Okay, gauntlet thrown, hah hah.

    @BradA
    >Bitchy mothers don’t make it right to have no mothers. The proper answer is to fix the former, not jump to the latter.

    I think Greyghost is being a man… He is adapting to the reality of his environment, instead of wishing for something not within his power to realize. He is accepting that most men cannot find a suitable woman for the role of life-long wife and loving and wise mother, and chooses to look about for solutions that he can implement by only changing himself and his own expectations. Because complaining about what other people do, in this case women, is not nearly as effective as choosing to change himself.
    I’m not sure that a deliberate father and children-only family is a great choice, but when I see the alternatives, I do not feel free to criticize his decision. I’ll admit that I even briefly consider it myself. About 98% certain I never would; I just see too much work to be done to volunteer to do a family alone, on purpose. But I certainly see no sin in it. Especially if a man takes a new-born that otherwise would be going to an orphanage, or the dumpster behind the abortion business.
    For your claim that having a family without a mother on purpose is immoral (assuming I have understood your repeated comments correctly): There is only one source of morality. So, book, chapter and verse please. 🙂

  157. If mothers were the best childcare givers, we should be having a avalanche of superb single mother raised children. The studies today would have you believe that women are better employees than men, better child carers, morally better, intellectually better and just all round better human beings than men. Men are obsolete as they say.

    My eyes tell me differently.

  158. Boxer says:

    Dear Feminist Hater:

    If mothers were the best childcare givers, we should be having a avalanche of superb single mother raised children.

    Strawman.

    The studies today would have you believe that women are better employees than men, better child carers, morally better, intellectually better and just all round better human beings than men. Men are obsolete as they say. My eyes tell me differently.

    Your eyes don’t tell you that the world would be better without mothers, because that has never been extensively tried, except perhaps in scifi stories.

    Don’t let your emotions guide you. That’s a feminine mode of being. The fact that women have failed at being men doesn’t mean they’re obsolete at being women.

  159. earl says:

    ‘The fact that women have failed at being men doesn’t mean they’re obsolete at being women.’

    Yes if women were striving to be feminine they would have as much power in their own way as a man who strives to be masculine.

  160. greyghost says:

    Your eyes don’t tell you that the world would be better without mothers, because that has never been extensively tried, except perhaps in scifi stories.

    Give them time Boxer they are working on it. The next phase is Father’s custody and he still pays CS or something along those lines.

  161. BradA says:

    Greyghost,

    Women in general are better mothers when they can be stepped around.

    Do you have proof of that?

    I don’t see “Christian” men having the ability to even stand up to such men much less do what these men are doing to prevail.

    That is not limited to Christian men. I am not sure how I would do myself, but I would fight a lot harder than it may seem now.

  162. BradA says:

    Dale,

    I think Greyghost is being a man… He is adapting to the reality of his environment, instead of wishing for something not within his power to realize. He is accepting that most men cannot find a suitable woman for the role of life-long wife and loving and wise mother, and chooses to look about for solutions that he can implement by only changing himself and his own expectations. Because complaining about what other people do, in this case women, is not nearly as effective as choosing to change himself.

    He said elsewhere that he is raising children with a wife now. I don’t recall all the details and I would assume it is not ideal based on his low view of marriage, but that is where he said he was.

    Intentionally depriving children of either parent remains wrong and I will keep stating that. I would also not that the “most men” idea is debatable. It is certainly true for many, but it is doable. A few of us on here have had our own bumps, but made it. We are not all special snowflakes.

    I’m not sure that a deliberate father and children-only family is a great choice, but when I see the alternatives, I do not feel free to criticize his decision.

    I don’t hesitate to criticize it at all, since I grew up with divorced parents. Not quite the same things, but close enough that I know it sucks, even when the parents get along OK. God made Adam and Eve and things were not done until Eve was created. We may have fallen, but God’s standard remains what it is.

    There is only one source of morality. So, book, chapter and verse please.

    The principle is there “from the beginning” as Jesus would say. If you can read what is written and not see that then you need to read it with open eyes more. God doesn’t explicitly answer every question we may have, but He does provide the principles to cover whatever we will face.

    FH,

    If mothers were the best childcare givers, we should be having a avalanche of superb single mother raised children.

    I don’t think this was aimed at me, but I would note that the only thing I am saying mothers are better at is being mothers. Only they can be mothers. A father can fill in for some things when needed, but he will never be a mother no matter how hard he tries. That is just as much a fact as the corollary that mothers cannot be fathers. God made two parents and that is His standard.

  163. Boxer says:

    Dear Brad A:

    God made two parents and that is His standard.

    It’s interesting. In the past, I’ve had this same argument with other atheist/agnostic types, and it proceeded along these exact same lines. Just replace “God” or “The Bible” with “science” and get the idea.

    Me: I thought you believed in science?
    Them: I do.
    Me: Well, biologically, don’t you think our species developed two complimentary sexes for a specific purpose?
    Them: No. We’re just exactly the same, except for our reproductive organs.
    Me: Can you show me an example among other primates where males of the species do the childrearing?
    Them: No, but we’re still exactly the same.
    Me: Where’s the evidence that we’re exactly the same?
    Them: Oh, everyone just knows that we’re exactly the same. Feminists say so, so it must be true.
    Me: I thought you believed in science?
    Them: I do.

    They “fucking love” science, with all its memes, and cool Neil DeGrasse Tyson quips, and such, but they only “fucking love” it when it agrees with whatever fashionable nonsense they hold as a religious faith, against all evidence to the contrary.

    Boxer

  164. Dale says:

    BradA replied:
    >>There is only one source of morality. So, book, chapter and verse please.
    >The principle is there “from the beginning” as Jesus would say. If you can read what is written and not see that then you need to read it with open eyes more.

    Compare that with a religious woman that I challenged to give the basis (location) in Scripture for saying that a woman can divorce her husband because he beat her. “It’s there” was the response. Sound familiar?

    Sorry Brad, but you are not thinking like a man, and I know you can do much better. If something is not explicitly condemned in Scripture, then I should have the humbleness to admit that I *think* it is wrong, or unloving, or whatever. But stating it IS wrong, based on nothing more than my *feelings*, is disappointing. My feelings and personal sense of justice are not, in fact, infallible.
    I understand that you likely have a strong emotional response to the topic, given that you had negative experiences due to being from a broken home. Sorry to hear that; a divorced home is not desirable.
    This strong emotional response to the situation however does not make the emotional judgement more reliable. A wise man will acknowledge where he is biased or unable to calmly consider a situation, and self-value his own opinion less because of it. And certainly will not seek to teach from it. This is similar to how judges are supposed to recluse (???) themselves (remove themselves) from judging a case when they know they will be unable to do so impartially.
    One time I asked my pastor his view on divorced women… specifically as I was attracted to a divorced woman at the time, and figured I could not be depended upon to do a truthful analysis of the relevant Scripture, given my emotional bias.
    Yes, there is the obvious example of Adam and Eve being together… but there is no command there against father-only families. The difference between teaching from an example in Scripture versus from the commands of God can easily be seen when considering whether to teach from the example of King David committing adultery, or from the command/rebuke given through the prophet Nathan by God against such.
    To be clear, a self-sacrificing, committed husband and wife working together for life is obviously preferable. But I see no reason to condemn a widow or widower for keeping their children even though this one-parent family is less than ideal… or a man whose considered opinion is that his children will be better off in a stable home with a committed father and no break-up, animosity and hatred due to the abandonment by an unreliable wife. And yes, a widower is absolutely in a different class than a man who deliberately chooses to adopt a child despite the lack of a wife. But the single man may not want to expose the child to the worse-than-Russian roulette chances of the family blow up with a selfish woman.

  165. BradA says:

    Dale,

    Compare that with a religious woman that I challenged to give the basis (location) in Scripture for saying that a woman can divorce her husband because he beat her. “It’s there” was the response. Sound familiar?

    Not at all. That is not a core theme woven through the Scriptures. Having a father and mother (both) is. Try again.

    She does not have the right to divorce her husband, though she certainly does have the right to separate and get protection. Her brothers and others should beat the crud out of her husband if that was true (a BIG IF), but that would be banned in our modern society. A truly proper society would allow that, but we are not there.

    Sorry Brad, but you are not thinking like a man, and I know you can do much better.

    That is the best you have? Not much logic behind your position is there?

    If something is not explicitly condemned in Scripture, then I should have the humbleness to admit that I *think* it is wrong, or unloving, or whatever.

    I cannot say anything since the Bible doesn’t explicitly say anything about hiring a surrogate to have a child? Yeah, right.

    But I see no reason to condemn a widow or widower for keeping their children even though this one-parent family is less than ideal…

    Straw man alert! I never said that and you know it. Note that I included “intentional” in what I wrote. Try again.

    or a man whose considered opinion is that his children will be better off in a stable home with a committed father and no break-up, animosity and hatred due to the abandonment by an unreliable wife.

    Stupid things (possibly evil) are not justified by the fact someone else might do worse to you. You must be a neocon since you have the preemptive strikes down.

    I have noted elsewhere that I don’t know what I would do were I in this situation and I suspect I would follow a MGTOW approach, but I would not wrap it in the idea that it was a good thing.

    You have made the man more important than the children. How is that better than making the women more important than her children? Both approaches are wrong and even evil. Those children will be forever denied the experience of growing up with their mother due to intentional actions on the part of their father. That is immoral.

    But the single man may not want to expose the child to the worse-than-Russian roulette chances of the family blow up with a selfish woman.

    You may want to brush up on your logic and research a bit. Russian Roulette always fails, if played for long enough. Marriages do not. Try again again.

  166. JudgyBitch says:

    Reblogged this on judgybitch and commented:
    Uh oh. Feminists really don’t like it when dads make it obvious they are whiny, joyless, petulant shrews.

  167. John Q. says:

    I don’t complain because I love being a Dad. It’s one of the most enjoyable and rewarding things I’ve ever done, and it’s fairly easy to do. You just incorporate someone into your life and make sure they’re learning, growing, becoming stronger and more capable, and enjoying themselves.

    Being a parent does require making some adjustments in how one lives and organizes one’s time, but those adjustments are well worth making because they’re beneficial to both you and your child.

    There’s nothing to complain about.

  168. Liz says:

    I don’t know what men you know but I would say the men I know moan about the kids just as much as women!

  169. Goober says:

    “If Daddy is going to be an equal parent, then Scary Daddy needs to be recognized and supported too”

    What the fuck ever. If a man did this, feminists would be lining up to scream as shrilly as they could about abuse and try to get his kids taken away.

    “Scary Daddy” is absolutely a feminist trope, and it is not something that most feminists would applaud. “Scary Daddy” becomes “Daddy who doesn’t get to see his kids again, ever” very shortly thereafter.

  170. Goober says:

    As for complaining, I don’t get it. I became a Dad by my own choice, because I wanted to be a Dad. Are people so delusional when they become parents that they think it’s going to be all days of wine and roses?

    Being a parent is hard, but it is even more rewarding.

    I don’t complain about it because:

    1.) I chose parenthood;
    2.) I love my kids more than my own life, so it seems strange to complain about how much impact they have on my life, when I would gladly give my life for them;
    3.) I wouldn’t trade it for anything.

  171. Pingback: Feminist: Men don’t complain enough when...

  172. Micha Elyi says:

    …complaining about anything, everything, and even nothing is at the core of feminism.
    –Dalrock

    Peter Zorhab understood that long ago. Blogs weren’t common at that time so he built a website and self-published an online book. He also commented frequently in Usenet’s soc.men newsgroup.

    …Feminism, being essentially a form of organised nagging, puts women into a traditional, accustomed role…
    –Peter Zohrab, Sex, Lies and Feminism chapter 12, section 4.

    Feminism is not much more than one of the typical female bad behaviors gone political. The louder feminists proclaim that their movement is something new and historically unprecedented the quicker someone of masculine common sense can peel back the latest feminist issue and spot the underlying traditional female motives and behaviors.

  173. Micha Elyi says:

    <blockquote…complaining about anything, everything, and even nothing is at the core of feminism.
    Dalrock

    Peter Zorhab understood that long ago. Blogs weren’t common at that time so he built a website and self-published an online book. He also commented frequently in Usenet’s soc.men newsgroup.

    …Feminism, being essentially a form of organised nagging, puts women into a traditional, accustomed role…
    Peter Zohrab, Sex, Lies and Feminism chapter 12, section 4.

    Feminism is not much more than one of the typical female bad behaviors gone political. The louder feminists proclaim that their movement is something new and historically unprecedented the quicker someone of masculine common sense can peel back the latest feminist issue and spot the underlying traditional female motives and behaviors.

  174. Luke says:

    Goober says:
    March 4, 2015 at 10:13 am
    “If Daddy is going to be an equal parent, then Scary Daddy needs to be recognized and supported too”

    What the fuck ever. If a man did this, feminists would be lining up to scream as shrilly as they could about abuse and try to get his kids taken away.

    “Scary Daddy” is absolutely a feminist trope, and it is not something that most feminists would applaud. “Scary Daddy” becomes “Daddy who doesn’t get to see his kids again, ever” very shortly thereafter

    Then, this daddy should not send their mother two cents to rub together again, ever.

  175. Boxer says:

    Hey Judgy Bitch:

    Reblogged this on judgybitch and commented

    Just wanted to let you know how much I enjoy your work. Your thoughtcatalog piece on how male feminists make substandard husbands/boyfriends was hilarious (and no doubt it’s on the mark too).

    Best,

    Boxer

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