Culinary frigidity.

Suzanne Cope describes her long battle to overcome crippling dysfunction.  As often happens, she learned her hangups at an early age from her mother and grandmother.  They taught her that giving pleasure to someone, giving of herself, is degrading and shameful;  good girls don’t do those sorts of things, even for their husband or boyfriend.  But her experience proves that there is always hope.  If you know of a woman suffering from culinary frigidity, please assist her in recognizing her dysfunction and seeking out the help she desperately needs.

This entry was posted in "The Writer", Frigidity, Miserliness, Satire, Suzanne Cope, Ugly Feminists. Bookmark the permalink.

124 Responses to Culinary frigidity.

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  3. PokeSalad says:

    First! 😉

    Dalrock, you are on a serious roll here recently, sir. Well done.

  4. easttexasfatboy says:

    When you cook for others, you’re giving of yourself. You know, adding the little extras that they love. A female who doesn’t cook isn’t a woman. She’s crippled, as it were. Sadly, I’ve known such females. Beware. There will be other signs of disfunction.

  5. Ensigma says:

    Thanks again, Boss.

  6. Pirran says:

    Fortunately, she’s overcome this crippling empathy with others in her parenting skills and remains (largely) indifferent to the upbringing of her child. Indeed, the little brat had the temerity to be born 2 years ahead of her projected lifeplan which, from what I can gather from her online CV, was to have a child at about 39 or 40.

    House hubby takes over the upbringing of the drooling patriarchal inception (as he damn well should), but still…..Dear God, did she just CRY over the impudent child? He was supposed to be a miscarriage, dammit !!.

    http://muthamagazine.com/2014/10/confessions-of-an-unsentimental-mother-by-suzanne-cope/

    http://suzannecope.com/cv/

  7. Joe says:

    I have been teaching my 11 year old son to cook – I cook utility and gourmet dishes alike and do it well because both my father and mother taught me how (Italian mother, self-sufficient outdoorsman father). My son asked why. I told him, “a lot of mommies are teaching their daughters that cooking makes them weak or bad women. It’s a silly political thing. So if you date or get married, you are very likely to wind up with a girl who, if she cooks at all, cooks shit food for you because even if she wants to cook well, she doesn’t know how to do any better. You should expect her to do at least her fair share of the cooking but you are likely to get bad food. Life is too short to put up with that. You should never settle for bad food, even if you’re out camping or on a boat fishing.”

    He understands that I think. We let him have a small (1/3d) glass of wine with dinner on the weekends, and make him cook simple breakfasts for us. I would like him to enter adult life enjoying good food and drink for it’s own sake, and to ignore what idiot women think about the political ramifications of preparing good food for yourself or others. Damned if I’m going to raise him to eat swill for 40 years in order to assuage the feminist guilt of some woman he marries. Hopefully he chooses better but given the spread of the rot I don’t think his options will be great.

  8. Thomas says:

    She is getting hammered in the comments.

  9. Anchorman says:

    The industrial-grade garbage they pump into girls’ heads these days is . . . toxic. No other word.

    She seems genuinely shocked that serving a loved one is rewarding, maybe more rewarding than her career.

  10. Lyn87 says:

    My MIL was a terrible cook but a passably good baker, so my wife wasn’t very good at cooking when we got married. It’s not that she wasn’t taught to cook – it’s that she wasn’t taught by someone who was any good at it herself. But in more recent years she’s turned into something of a “foodie.” She exchanges recipes with her nieces and my mother all the time. Because of health and nutritional reasons we’ve gone more-or-less paleo, and she’s constantly coming up with new ways to make what is a pretty basic diet actually appealing. These days, she’s one of the best cooks I know… but it was a long time coming.

  11. mikediver5 says:

    I have been the family cook since I was 12. I spread my wings to cook gourmet when I have the time; which is a lot more often now that all the kids (6) are grown and gone. I was the only boy of 7 children and the only one that my mother let work in her kitchen. She was brought up in a strict German household where everything had a place and if it wasn’t in that place somebody was going to catch hell. I have the same tendencies so we could share a kitchen; my sisters were slobs. All of my sisters learned to cook survival food but one is like me and actually enjoys the art of cooking. It was also a necessity since my mother really was a terrible cook and all my older sisters were gone by the time I turned 12. My mother did not care about food herself and only put calories on the table so we could survive. I love food; which is demonstrated by my ever expanding waistline. I also have the heritage of cooking as my paternal grandfather was a cook and an uncle was a chef and restauranteur.

    I have 4 sons. I had the opportunity to try and teach 3 of them to cook. Only one was really interested. I argued with all of them that they should never be dependent on a woman for anything, especially something as basic as the food you eat. I guess this is the male side of our current culture that teaches girls they can’t rely on men for anything. I believe down to my bones that if you want good food, have a man as a cook.

  12. jbro1922 says:

    “I believe down to my bones that if you want good food, have a man as a cook.”

    Amen to that! My boyfriend cooks a lot (and will wash dishes afterwards) and the food is delicious. I cook as well and often we cook together, but he usually beats me to the punch.

  13. Dalrock says:

    Good find Pirran. From the first link:

    …when the doctor told me I had a miscarriage a few weeks later, I did not cry, or feel anything other than relief. It was true: I was amazed at what my body could accomplish. But I was looking forward to having a few more years to “lean in.”

    Aside from the sheer stone heartedness of this, I was surprised because I originally took her for another one of the countless women who are “the writer”, and who as McCain points out must live in Brooklyn. But this makes her sound like a serious professional woman studying and teaching something like STEM. Then I looked at the CV you linked, and all of her graduate work is in “creative nonfiction”. She is the cliche McCain calls the writer, and if you look at her twitter page, you will of course find that she lives in Brooklyn.

    At any rate, it turns out the miscarriage was a misdiagnosis. She was still pregnant, and this of course threatened her world changing work as “the writer”, and threatened her identity:

    I kept to my hectic schedule – travel, the gym, live music, even a glass of wine with dinner – unapologetically. I swore I would not be defined by my pregnancy. I was not a vessel. I cringed when my belly stared showing, and when colleagues, who once asked about my research and teaching, began inquiring after my health. I felt my identity start to slip through my fingers as my child grew more and more apparent to the outside world. And while I was amazed that there was a living being growing inside of me, I also felt at equal times host to an alien.

  14. Phillyastro says:

    When the Olive Garden gives out blow jobs and maid service with their endless pasta bowl, there will be no purpose for marriage or girlfriends.

  15. Anonymous Reader says:

    About 8 years ago I wound up running a kitchen for a time, because of sick relatives. It was a case of “If I don’t do this, nobody else eats”, so the choice was not really a choice, and takeout food was not acceptable for several reasons. One evening I had a brief spasm of resentment at having had a job I was not well prepared to do dropped on my head on rather short notice. “I didn’t sign up for this”, in short.

    However, it was relatively easy to push that resentment to one side: people were trusting me to prepare food for them, and fix it to certain requirements. Requirements that had to be met, period. Once I viewed cooking for relations as a privilege rather than a burden, it was much easier and even pleasant to do.

    Of course, as a man I didn’t have an entire sociopolitical movement whispering in my ear to deliberately stoke up that resentment, so I did have that advantage.

  16. myne88 says:

    Feminists make way too big a deal out of cooking. I think this is one area where women have shot themselves in the foot. Women cooked because of a division of labor; it made sense if you’re sitting home all day you might as well make dinner. But it’s ludicrous to say cooking is a “woman’s job.” Like most things, men are better at it.

    Basically every man I know is a competent cook. Many are amatuer gourmets. They cook for fun, to try out tasty foods, to explore new recipes. When I finally broke free from my “TV dinners and sandwiches phase,” I found my cooking skills quickly exceeded every woman I’ve ever known. When men realize cooking is easy and most women are crap at it, what do women have left?

  17. Dalrock says:

    Another article from “Mutha” magazine (linked to by Pirran above). NURSING WHILE BUTCH: A Comic

    I thought nursing would be like another phase of pregnancy.

    That it was going to keep my drippy, vulnerable femaleness front and center. [Picture of a manish woman throwing a tantrum]

    So you may be surprised to find that I don’t hate nursing.

  18. Malcolm says:

    Cooking is a fundamental life skill. No one can justly claim adulthood without it. One of my favorite quotes of Robert Heinlein:

    “A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”

  19. BradA says:

    I saw that link Dalrock, but didn’t follow through until she posted here. Talk about having a confused sexual identity….

  20. Bluepillprofessor says:

    I would rather watch white paint dry than read that linked piece. The average post on The Red Pill is written better and it does not even compare to this blog. Her pedantic, juvenile realizations are something any normal 10 year old girl could articulate better. That she WRITES for a living is simply maddening.

  21. Ronin says:

    I don’t see any comments after the article, they must have been taken down.

  22. easttexasfatboy says:

    As I get older, I’ve come to realize that people sort themselves out. A female that doesn’t have a nurturing spirit isn’t a woman. And normal people understand that. That lack of empathy means that she won’t reproduce. It also means that she’s useless from a societal viewpoint. The human genome, writ large, won’t miss such aberrant females. Water seeks it’s own level. Feminism is self destructive in many ways, and has truly wounded 3 generations of women. As cold blooded as it sounds, if a young woman can’t cook, then a young man needs to be aware that she’s probably unfit and untrustworthy. Because, you see, a failure to learn how to do such a simple thing betrays a problematic upbringing. She may very well be feral. Thing is, most females don’t understand that they aren’t hard to figure out.

  23. Eidolon says:

    While my wife hasn’t been feeling well, I’ve learned how to cook our usual food. She makes good and healthy food from fresh ingredients, and I appreciate her cooking. She was surprised that I was able to learn it quickly and I can pretty much do it as well as she does now. We talked about how modern women are taught that they’re just as good as, if not better than men, but that’s not true (or is only true in limited areas). Not being interested in something is not the same as not being good at it — the best people in fashion, cooking, etc. are still men, despite few men being interested. I intend to teach any sons we have to cook, so they won’t eat junk food all throughout college like I did.

    Patriarchy really does benefit women; the division of labor gives women an area to manage that they can handle. Women in the past wouldn’t think about comparing themselves directly with men, and thus it didn’t matter if men were better than them at the things they did or not. But feminism demands an answer to the question, and it turns out men are better at most things.

  24. Novaseeker says:

    I also like cooking, and cook quite well.

    However, men do need to beware of becoming a woman’s “kitchen bitch”, as Sandra Tsing-Loh lovingly describes her ex-husband — even if you are good at it.

  25. Joe says:

    @PhillyAstro- “When the Olive Garden gives out blow jobs and maid service with their endless pasta bowl, there will be no purpose for marriage or girlfriends.”

    I will repeat to you what I tell my son. Life is too short to eat shit food. At least hit Macaroni Grill if you’re going to do the Factory Italian thing. And why you’d subcontract out for Italian food when it is so much fun (and usually so much better) at home is completely beyond me.

  26. Joe says:

    @Easttexasfatboy: “Thing is, most females don’t understand that they aren’t hard to figure out.”

    Yup. Keep telling them (and encourage your beta friends to keep telling them, “I just don’t understand you women.” It’s not enough to have good intelligence of the opposing formation, you must also obscure the strength of your formation from your opponent.

    Sun Tzu didn’t say that, I don’t think; but he could have.

  27. Well, cooking requires you to accomplish a goal with your own two hands without government assistance, so yeah, she’s bad at Feminism.

  28. Dalrock says:

    @Bluepillprofessor

    I would rather watch white paint dry than read that linked piece. The average post on The Red Pill is written better and it does not even compare to this blog. Her pedantic, juvenile realizations are something any normal 10 year old girl could articulate better. That she WRITES for a living is simply maddening.

    This is a case where she obsessed with her profession because she is a feminist, and her profession is studying and teaching writing, and writing (badly) about being a feminist writer who studies and teaches writing. It is a closed loop. There is nothing there but feminist delusions of grandeur and resentment.

    Her writing reminds me of Anne Marie Slaughter’s atrocious piece in The Atlantic. Actually Slaughter’s writing is even worse.

  29. JDG says:

    When you cook for others, you’re giving of yourself.

    This is one of the main reasons I like to tell feminists to make sammiches. A sammich a day helps keep the hamster at bay.

  30. Joe,

    @PhillyAstro- “When the Olive Garden gives out blow jobs and maid service with their endless pasta bowl, there will be no purpose for marriage or girlfriends.”

    I will repeat to you what I tell my son. Life is too short to eat shit food. At least hit Macaroni Grill if you’re going to do the Factory Italian thing. And why you’d subcontract out for Italian food when it is so much fun (and usually so much better) at home is completely beyond me.

    Philly is not just subcontracting out ONLY for Italian food here.

  31. Larry J says:

    I think everyone should learn how to cook, do laundry, mend clothes, clean the house, and the other basic life skills. Both men and women tend to be on their own for some time before they marry, if indeed they ever get married. If you can’d do those basic life skills, you’re dependent on others for them or you live like a slob.

    My wife is a good cook and always has been. I cook breakfasts on the weekends, do the baking as well as grill and smoke meats. I can do ordinary cooking as well but she does it better. We make a good team.

    When you cook for others, you’re giving of yourself.

    That’s why feminists are opposed to basic life skills like cooking. It’s all about them. The idea of giving of yourself is anathema.

  32. Opus says:

    Dalrock’s excellent comment above where he summarizes feminism as grandeur and resentment puts me in mind of Germaine Greer’s view of female poets; that you have to take yourself seriously to do poetry and women either couldn’t manage that at all or assumed a levity that became mere self-importance.

    It reminds me of a former romantic acquaintance of mine who – so she said – had been attending a creative writing course and thus sent me a piece of her creative writing. I replied that it was terrible porn (as it was) to which she replied that it wasn’t porn but how she felt about me!!!?

  33. Anonymous Reader says:

    Novaseeker
    However, men do need to beware of becoming a woman’s “kitchen bitch”, as Sandra Tsing-Loh lovingly describes her ex-husband — even if you are good at it.

    Seconded. Have seen this play out in a couple of different ways:

    * The two income family where she earns more $$$ so he winds up staying home with a child after maternity leave has run out. This can be a huge Display of Lower Value, especially if she’s around more powerful men all day. Arguably something like this happened in the Tsing-Loh “Eat, Betray, Lust” case.

    * The learned-helpless-in-kitchen woman, where the man takes on the job of running the kitchen because he wants a clean glass to drink out of when he gets home from work and a hot meal. Because it is easier in the short term to just clean up the day’s mess and get food on the table in front of the child than it is to go through seemingly endless wrangles with the “wife”.

    In both cases, the man likely fails to make clear what he’s doing and why, and this leads to more trouble. Case #2 happened to a friend, the man who showed up at my door a little over a year ago, who greeted me with “Hi! I’m divorced!”. The short term turned out to be the long term…

  34. Larry,

    I think everyone should learn how to cook, do laundry, mend clothes, clean the house, and the other basic life skills. Both men and women tend to be on their own for some time before they marry, if indeed they ever get married. If you can’d do those basic life skills, you’re dependent on others for them or you live like a slob.

    Danger! Danger Will Robinson! Danger!

    I mentioned this to Elspeth and I’m sure it drives her crazy the longer men live alone and do their own household chores in addition to keeping a full-time job, the less and less they value a woman who solely homemakes. It is a natural and logical step that occurs with men who spend a signficant amount of time (living alone) before they get married. I lived on my own for almost 5 years before I said “I do.” As a result of me washing clothes, shopping for food, cooking meals, paying bills, and cleaning house in addition to working full-time AND managing a part-time business, “I don’t” value homemaking or cooking. Homemaking means nothing to me because I did it and learned its a piece of cake. I could never be happily married to a woman if all she wanted to do is “stay home” and take care of the home. I would lose respect for her in 30 seconds.

    So although what you are saying makes perfect sense, it tends to destroy the respect and honor that men have traditionally given women if they choose to stay home. You can’t have it both ways. It’s kind of like taking the red pill, you can’t go back and unlearn that which you have learned.

  35. Pirran says:

    @Dalrock

    And now the apotheosis of this martyed soul combining the culinary arts, childcare and hopeless men. Our heroine, battling the forces of patriarchy at work and at home, has to come home to a slovenly pig who doesn’t even have dinner on the table when she walks in the door. Infamy, infamy,…….they’ve all got it informe…….

    http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/dont-expect-dinner/

  36. earl says:

    ‘They taught her that giving pleasure to someone, giving of herself, is degrading and shameful; good girls don’t do those sorts of things, even for their husband or boyfriend.’

    Boy that’s weapons grade narcissism and power there. They take something and turn it into an all time situation.

    Giving pleasure to someone specifically sexually should only be her husband. Giving of herself to others in other ways is called love. If she doesn’t learn this…she won’t know what life is about.

  37. imnobody00 says:

    @ Dalrock

    This is a case where she obsessed with her profession because she is a feminist, and her profession is studying and teaching writing, and writing (badly) about being a feminist writer who studies and teaches writing. It is a closed loop. There is nothing there but feminist delusions of grandeur and resentment.

    This is the thing that amazes me the most about 90% of female writers (as always, there are exceptions).

    Most male writers write about stuff: politics, cars, women, etc.
    Most female writers have one and only topic: my endlessly fascinating navel.

    Who needs to learn about a topic to write? It’s easier to write about one’s own neuroses, hamster and uninteresting life.

  38. That is just disgusting! As a woman who’s had a miscarriage, and who has quite a few friends who have gone through that as well, I cannot believe how callous she is. Is she even truly female? Why would a woman feel this way?
    “…when the doctor told me I had a miscarriage a few weeks later, I did not cry, or feel anything other than relief. It was true: I was amazed at what my body could accomplish. But I was looking forward to having a few more years to “lean in.”

    With women like this, it’s no wonder there are MGTOW

  39. earl says:

    ‘Is she even truly female? Why would a woman feel this way?’

    This is what happens when people think power is more important than love. It makes the heart go cold.

  40. Pirran says:

    Ok, Ok, I admit defeat. I just can’t parody this stuff. Suzanne Cope wins the over-promoted barista of the year award. This reads like an Onion piece on “Brooklyn People” from a few years back. Locavore’s Unite !

    http://manhattan.edu/news/visiting-professor-english-explores-contemporary-craft-industry-through-creative-nonfiction

  41. BradA says:

    Ronin, the OP link has some comments, mostly against the writer. The article linked in a later reply here is missing comments. I was confused on that myself for a moment, so that could be what you are seeing.

  42. MarcusD says:

    I’m really liking the fact that there are people linking to cat food websites in the comments.

  43. jbro,

    Not trying to hijack the thread, but did you guys see this? http://www.gq.com/news-politics/big-issues/201503/mens-rights-activism-the-red-pill

    We are coming out… guns blazing! Red pills, everywhere.

    We are (right now) where POKER was in 1998, just before Matt Damon did “Rounders.” It was in 2003 where Chris Moneymaker took POKER mainstream and it has changed the game… forever. I think in about five years (after just enough women not named Ann Coulter eat enough red pills), people will stop talking about feminism and how much they hate it and will start to talk about the patriarchy and how much they are starting to like it.

  44. Dalrock says:

    @imnobody

    Most female writers have one and only topic: my endlessly fascinating navel.

    The other McCain nailed this when he wrote:

    See, this is the thing with young feminist writer types nowadays. They can’t go to Podunk State University. No, they must attend one of those private schools where annual tuition is at or near the median U.S. household income. This is the only way to become that glorious being, The Writer. And, probably because as girls dreaming of becoming The Writer, they watched a sitcom or movie about the lives of quirky bachelorettes in Brooklyn, they simply must live there after graduation.

    Well, you may ask, what does The Writer write about?

    Herself, of course! Do these elite colleges offer a major in Solipsism Studies nowadays?

    He wrote this regarding another feminist writer, but he is describing the category and his description fits Ms. Cope to the letter. Adding to the irony, not only are these women cliché, but they all see themselves as avant guard.

  45. Yoda says:

    JDG correct about “sammich therapy” he is.
    Universal to all galaxies this would be.

  46. Larry J says:

    @innocentbystanderboston

    So although what you are saying makes perfect sense, it tends to destroy the respect and honor that men have traditionally given women if they choose to stay home. You can’t have it both ways. It’s kind of like taking the red pill, you can’t go back and unlearn that which you have learned.

    My wife and I met in college where we were both older “non-traditional students.” She became a nurse and I’ve worked several jobs (military, IT, defense contractor). She retired three years ago due to health reasons, so she stays at home now while I still work. I come home at night to a clean house, clean laundry, and good cooking. The only problem with her good cooking is that I like to eat, probably much more than I should. I’ve gained quite a bit of weight in the 31 years we’ve been married.

    When we were both working, we had some simple guidelines that we followed. She doesn’t like the way I do laundry so she does all of it. I did the basic home and car maintenance. We work together on the finances and have gone from virtually nothing to a 7 figure net worth. We share the cooking duties and whomever got home first started supper. We cook large batches on the weekends and warm the food during the weekdays for the most part.

    I never expected a stay at home housewife during my marriage and she’s still be working if it wasn’t for her health. I do encourage her to get out of the house, be as physically active as she can, to socialize with her friends, etc. I do that because I know how bored she’d be if she just stayed home all day. She’s very frugal so she has little interest in shopping other than for groceries and household items. Life is good.

  47. Larry,

    My wife and I met in college where we were both older “non-traditional students.” She became a nurse and I’ve worked several jobs (military, IT, defense contractor). She retired three years ago due to health reasons, so she stays at home now while I still work. I come home at night to a clean house, clean laundry, and good cooking. The only problem with her good cooking is that I like to eat, probably much more than I should. I’ve gained quite a bit of weight in the 31 years we’ve been married.

    Yours is not the situation I am discussing.

    What I am talking about is a 27 year old male who has lived on his own for 4 or 5 years (working full time and caring for his own home) might only be a room he rents in someone else’s house, but he had to cook his own meals and do his own laundry. He has a system and he is efficient. Now he meets miss right, age 25 to 30 or whatever. She says…

    “I don’t want to work. I want to just stay home.”

    ….and 27 year old male (not 56 year old male who has been married to the same woman for 31 years) thinks this is what I have been doing all these years without you and I have gotten along just fine. I want to build a life with a wife whom I love and cherish, how is this going to happen if you just want to do all day what I know I can do in 45 minutes AND (maybe) I might have to pay off all those loans and credit cards you got before we met? How could I ever love and cherish someone I don’t respect?

    See how this works?

    This conversation never happens if he and she are both 22 and move from mom and dad into a home they share together. Then he will never understand (with moden appliances and technology) how easy home making is. But this point of self-discovery is what is happening to young men who have “launched” but who have not “married.” This is more common now than ever.

  48. D42 says:

    @innocentbystanderboston

    Larry,

    I think everyone should learn how to cook, do laundry, mend clothes, clean the house, and the other basic life skills. Both men and women tend to be on their own for some time before they marry, if indeed they ever get married. If you can’d do those basic life skills, you’re dependent on others for them or you live like a slob.

    Danger! Danger Will Robinson! Danger!

    I mentioned this to Elspeth and I’m sure it drives her crazy the longer men live alone and do their own household chores in addition to keeping a full-time job, the less and less they value a woman who solely homemakes. It is a natural and logical step that occurs with men who spend a signficant amount of time (living alone) before they get married. I lived on my own for almost 5 years before I said “I do.” As a result of me washing clothes, shopping for food, cooking meals, paying bills, and cleaning house in addition to working full-time AND managing a part-time business, “I don’t” value homemaking or cooking. Homemaking means nothing to me because I did it and learned its a piece of cake. I could never be happily married to a woman if all she wanted to do is “stay home” and take care of the home. I would lose respect for her in 30 seconds.

    So although what you are saying makes perfect sense, it tends to destroy the respect and honor that men have traditionally given women if they choose to stay home. You can’t have it both ways. It’s kind of like taking the red pill, you can’t go back and unlearn that which you have learned.

    You don’t have to value homemaking to respect a SAHM. You have to value children.

    Homemaking for one adult is easy. Two adults, still easy. Two adults plus all the day-to-day care for 1 or more kids? Okay, now we’re getting into the kind of work that wealthy people contract out to full-time nannies, for $250-$850/week, depending on the ages and number of kids. Ask yourself, “How much would we have to pay someone else to do this?” That’s a pretty good measure of her monetary value at home.

    Now, I agree that if you don’t homeschool, and all the kids are school-age, that leaves several hours a day where mom could get a job. However, if she homeschools the kids and takes on all the homemaking chores, errands and cooking, she’s got a full-time job (nanny and governess), with you as boss.

    If she can start a home business and make money or do something to assist you with your work (as women used to do, back in the days of patriarchy), that’s even better, but not all families can manage this.

    Point is, if you’ve got several kids, and she’s doing most of the housework and childcare, she’s got a job

  49. Elspeth says:

    I mentioned this to Elspeth and I’m sure it drives her crazy the longer men live alone and do their own household chores in addition to keeping a full-time job, the less and less they value a woman who solely homemakes.

    LOL, no. It doesn’t drive me crazy. My husband values my time at home because he wanted a mother for his children, and he wanted more than two children whom we would quickly ferry off to a daycare center.

    Now…does my time at home include serving him with my homemaking skills? Yes, it does. I iron his clothes., serve his meals, rub his back, and any other thing he might need from me, but I am not as you slyly imply a sbstitute mommy.

    My husband can cook as well maybe better than I can. He’s better with a needle and thread.His late mother saw to it that her sons could do basic homemaking stuff because, in her words, “These girls today can’t cook, can’t clean, can’t do nothing.” She was right. My skills were minimal when we married, although I could cook a little.

    He can fend for himself if he needs to. He just doesn’t see why he should. If he wanted to keep his own house, he wouldn’t need a wife. He wasn’t a Christian when we married so he didn’t even marry for sex. He was raised to expect that if he took care of a woman it was the least she could do to take care of his house and children.

    The fact that you were content to procreate as minimally as possible and place no value on your woman in the home doesn’t mean that other men want homemakers simply to replace the stuff their mothers did for them. Some people actually have a wider lens and a longer view than that.

  50. Elspeth says:

    Oh yes, and we homeschool. It’s a big job. If I thought I could get away with it, I would have considered getting a job to pay for private Christian school a long time ago. True homemaking has value and is far more than washing dishes and cooking a couple of meals every day. If only…

  51. Anonymous Reader says:

    Anyone have anything to observe about the movie Old Fashioned that came out last month?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Fashioned_%28film%29

  52. When men realize cooking is easy and most women are crap at it, what do women have left?

    The only thing they ever had – sex. Now if only women were good at that!

  53. dvdivx says:

    The whole notion of she has to cook is idiotic. My wife before we were married made me breakfast in bed every day. Do you think that happened after we were married. Same thing for sex, so buyer beware.

  54. BradA says:

    IBB, unless being 1 year younger when I married throws off your numbers (I was 26), you are way off when you say that a man in that situation would not appreciate a SAHM. My wife stayed at home before we had children. She has worked on an off, but is back to focusing on the house and such. We will see what happens with that after we move across town in the next few weeks, but I would never want to go back to doing all this stuff myself and I was more than happy to pass it off to her when we married.

    I doubt males have changed that much over the years. Some really organized ones might have, but I have always been at least sort of a traditionalist at heart, even though I was mostly raised by a single mother who worked all the time.

    dvdix,

    That is one flaw of living together before marriage. You cheapened the value of marriage. The same could have happened after marriage of course, especially today, but playing marriage first doesn’t set things well for real marriage.

  55. mikediver5 says:

    D42 says:
    February 24, 2015 at 2:37 pm

    I am afraid I have to disagree in part. I became the single parent of four when my wife died. I was working full time and the youngest was 3. I did the full time (+) job, kept house, and raised children with no consistent help. Yes, there were a few times where family helped out, but those were the exceptions. It is really not that hard.

    First everyone did anything they could. There were no free rides, everyone helped. When family did help they always reported that my littlest one was very independent. He wanted to pour his own milk for his cereal because he was a big boy and he could manage. The kids did their own laundry from the time they could reach the top of the washing machine. I was one of 7 and this was the same style with which I was raised. I was ironing sheets and pillow cases (my mother was a bit anal) from kindergarten on. Giving chores and responsibilities to children is good for them.

    The reason a SAHM is important is to be there for the kids and to make sure they don’t go off the rails, not because it is a difficult and/or time consuming job. Mother is far from the hardest job in America; no matter how many times Oprah says so.

  56. greyghost says:

    girlwithadragonflytattoo

    That is just disgusting! As a woman who’s had a miscarriage, and who has quite a few friends who have gone through that as well, I cannot believe how callous she is. Is she even truly female? Why would a woman feel this way?
    “…when the doctor told me I had a miscarriage a few weeks later, I did not cry, or feel anything other than relief. It was true: I was amazed at what my body could accomplish. But I was looking forward to having a few more years to “lean in.”

    With women like this, it’s no wonder there are MGTOW

    That is actually normal for women. This woman is on the far end of the spectrum but it is normal. What kept it under control was the image women wanted to be seen as good and nice. Abortion is legal. And we see whats going on in family law and no fault divorce. See the topic of this article. Liberation and feminism is so women don’t even have to deal with the oppressive burdened of hiding it. Even in the “good ole days” In 1912 the survival rate for women on the Titanic was 20% higher than the rate for children. Just the way it is.

  57. Tam the Bam says:

    “When you cook for others, you’re giving of yourself.”

    As Mr Punch says, “that’s the way to do it!”

  58. mikediver5 says:

    Women and children first means in reality; women first, children maybe as an after thought, and men not at all.

  59. Elspeth says:

    Mikediver,

    Our older 3 children went to school, and homemaking during those elementary years was a piece of cake. I had all day while the kids were in school (when I wasn’t volunteering at the school), and we lived in a 2-bedroom apartment with no yard.

    Now, I have to keep house (in a 3000 sq. ft. 4-2) at the same level while trying to insure that the two youngest are well educated, and provide 3 good meals a day.

    If I were not homeschooling, it would probably still be easy. But reading, grammar, math, geography, music, history, and all that? That’s mostly on me.

    I am not complaining, because I understand that what I do in no way compares to how hard my husband works, and I can set my schedule, take breaks as needed, and all that’s helpful.

    But the idea that a homemaker is of no value is highly erroneous. It also ignores what they provide to the community in which they live. PTAs, co-ops, cooking meals for new moms. I and our kids help guve out food boxes to yhe needy at our church once a month. My husband sees all these things as highly valuable.

    That’s another example of how leftist thinking and atomized Western living has warped our thinking. If families were more active in their communities women (and men) wouldn’t be so quick to minimize the domestic sphere.

  60. dvdivx says:

    BradA says:
    That is one flaw of living together before marriage. You cheapened the value of marriage. The same could have happened after marriage of course, especially today, but playing marriage first doesn’t set things well for real marriage.

    No, my wife informing me after our last child that she was done having sex cheapened marriage to the point that it has no value. Something i will be more than happy to share with my son. Lucky many men are figuring out that marriage is little more than a scam. If you expect your wife to be there for you during severe health problems also than your “wisdom” will only come around to bite you, My wife also had a very low n count (I was her second) and came from a good family so you can not predict just how bad a marriage can get from the beginning of it.

  61. mikediver5 says:

    Elspeth,

    I hope you are not lumping yourself in with the bulk of homemakers. The percentage doing home schooling is minute. I have done what is the typical tassk of a SAHM while working full time. I do not claim to have done what you do. Niether have a claimed that the job of a homemaker has no value. I stated taht the purpose is to have a supervisor for the kids. this is important, but does not equal the hardest job in America.

  62. Elspeth says:

    but does not equal the hardest job in America.

    I completely agree.

  63. mikediver5 says:

    The inherent slopism of female artists is not limited to writers. One of the most celebrated female painters is Frida Kahlo. If you examine her work you will find that every single piece she created was a self portrait in one way or another. She just could not imagine any picture not including herself.

  64. mikediver5 says:

    TFH says:
    February 24, 2015 at 4:40 pm

    I can’t place where I read about it, but I believe that such a program was written and it was fairly hard to differentiate it’s output for the feminst writer output.

  65. Johnycomelately says:

    This woman’s attitude is completely understandable, after all gen x is the generation of postpartum depression.

    With one or two children in a household women are not socialized to the family script, extended family segregation (via work opportunities, housing affordability, nursing homes etc.) means that young girls are not brought up in inter generational social environments where social obligations (taking care of children, helping elderly relatives, social gatherings, cooking etc.) are valued.

    Their primary mode of socialization is via schooling where they spend most of their time with like aged children, is it any wonder their perception of social status mirrors that of the schooling system. Schooling doesn’t reward family commitment, it creates an externally (via media) rewarded status mechanism, merit badges.

    Reminds me of the story of a Russian monk in the Soviet Union castigating a young woman for her social work (printing pamphlets on third world poverty), he reminded her that her grandmother was immobile and starving in her apartment.

    Can you blame women for seeking merit badges when that is all they were taught through their formative years?

  66. Joe says:

    @Innocentbystanderboston: “Philly is not just subcontracting out ONLY for Italian food here.”

    Sure. But you can get a decent blowjob anywhere. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a really good Italian restaurant?

  67. Eric says:

    My mother was an unskilled cook when she married my dad (“she could burn water”). But she cooked for her family every single day. She bought cookbooks, clipped recipes from the back of food boxes, and tried recipes from the newspaper. She could tell what we liked and what we didn’t like.

    By the time I was old enough to evaluate her cooking somewhat critically, she was an excellent cook. We all learn by doing.

    The problem with today’s woman isn’t that her mother didn’t teach her to cook. The problem is she considers working to be her contribution to the welfare of the family. She doesn’t have time to learn because it isn’t a priority for her, and because she’s been taught cooking is something self-respecting women only do when they’re “entertaining”.

  68. Renee Harris says:

    “Anyone have anything to observe about the movie Old Fashioned that came out last month?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Fashioned_%28film%29
    It’s salvation porn with little fireproof’s prologue add in. The fireproof book has a prologue

  69. Yoda says:

    I can’t place where I read about it, but I believe that such a program was written and it was fairly hard to differentiate it’s output for the feminst writer output

    Pass the Turing test this would not.
    Considerably below normal intelligence this would require
    The singularity still far away it is.

  70. Tam the Bam says:

    ” .. every single piece she created was a self portrait in one way or another ..”
    Nope. At least two were definitely Bert from Sesame Street.

  71. Corvinus says:

    “I told him, “a lot of mommies are teaching their daughters that cooking makes them weak or bad women. It’s a silly political thing. So if you date or get married, you are very likely to wind up with a girl who, if she cooks at all, cooks shit food for you because even if she wants to cook well, she doesn’t know how to do any better. You should expect her to do at least her fair share of the cooking but you are likely to get bad food. Life is too short to put up with that. You should never settle for bad food, even if you’re out camping or on a boat fishing.””

    I also teach my son how to cook, along with his mother. We tell him that 1) it’s a life skill, 2) it helps to attract the ladies, and 3) sometimes fathers in a two income household must demonstrate their manliness by helping out. “Silly political thing”? Hardly. It’s called a personal decision made by each family.

    “As often happens, she learned her hangups at an early age from her mother and grandmother.”

    

As do the fellas when it comes to “alphas” and “gammas”.

    “Like most things, men are better at it.”

    

Something like this cannot be absolutely proven. It’s more of an opinion.

    “As cold blooded as it sounds, if a young woman can’t cook, then a young man needs to be aware that she’s probably unfit and untrustworthy.”

    
I would imagine that you are going to be very lonely.

  72. Dave says:

    As cold blooded as it sounds, if a young woman can’t cook, then a young man needs to be aware that she’s probably unfit and untrustworthy. Because, you see, a failure to learn how to do such a simple thing betrays a problematic upbringing.

    You can say that again. It is sad though. A woman who cannot cook and who is not willing to learn is simply not ready for marriage. It is simply impossible to nurture a husband and children without providing them nutritious meals on a regular basis. If a woman can’t do this, what then is her contribution to the marriage?

  73. greyghost says:

    As cold blooded as it sounds, if a young woman can’t cook, then a young man needs to be aware that she’s probably unfit and untrustworthy.”

    You are damn straight on that. I was commenting on that yesterday.

  74. Bluepillprofessor says:

    @Joe: “It’s not enough to have good intelligence of the opposing formation, you must also obscure the strength of your formation from your opponent. Sun Tzu didn’t say that, I don’t think; but he could have.”

    All warfare is deception.

    @Yoda: “Singularity still far away it is.” Hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.

    My wife fairly recently learned about one of the most amazing of God’s creations- the Crock Pot! Spaghetti, Ribs, Roast, Chicken Vegetable Soup, Beef Barley Soup, Enchiladas and about 100 other recipes are ridiculously simple. Dump the frozen food in the crock pot. Put it on High for 5-8 hours. Done.

  75. Oscar says:

    Lyn87 says:
    February 24, 2015 at 9:43 am

    “My MIL was a terrible cook but a passably good baker, so my wife wasn’t very good at cooking when we got married. It’s not that she wasn’t taught to cook – it’s that she wasn’t taught by someone who was any good at it herself. But in more recent years she’s turned into something of a “foodie.” She exchanges recipes with her nieces and my mother all the time. Because of health and nutritional reasons we’ve gone more-or-less paleo, and she’s constantly coming up with new ways to make what is a pretty basic diet actually appealing. These days, she’s one of the best cooks I know… but it was a long time coming.”

    My mom is an outstanding cook. Her food isn’t fancy, just delicious Central American fare. I can look in the fridge and think “dammit, there’s nothing to eat”. My mom will look in the same fridge and whip up a tasty meal in no time. We were dirt poor for years after we moved to the US, so she became an expert in making the most from very little, and since we couldn’t afford gifts, she demonstrated her love by stuffing us silly when we could afford it. How I remained scrawny until adulthood, I’ll never know.

    My wife (girlfriend at the time) was finishing school while I was at OBC at Fort Leonard Wood. My mom called and told (NOT invited – TOLD) her to visit my parents for the weekend.

    When my wife arrived at my parents’ house, my mom pulled her into the kitchen and said, “You’re going to learn to cook the foods my son likes”, and proceeded to give my wife a 48-hour crash course in Central American cuisine. My dad sat in a corner reading a book and served as taste-tester, nodding in approval when my wife got something right.

    Today, my wife makes such delicious nacatamales that one of my cousins said she was ashamed that a white girl could make better nacatamales than her!

    It just occurred to me that this story relates to Scott’s post at his blog.

    http://courtshippledge.com/2015/02/365/

  76. Oscar says:

    Elspeth says:
    February 24, 2015 at 3:13 pm

    “Oh yes, and we homeschool.”

    Which curriculum do you use? We started out with BJU. Now we use Monarch.

  77. Don's Johnson says:

    ” “Like most things, men are better at it.”

    

Something like this cannot be absolutely proven. It’s more of an opinion.”

    Just watch any Iron Chef. Or go to any high end restaurant in a major city. Most of the top chefs in the world are men.

  78. infowarrior1 says:

    @Corvinus
    ”“Like most things, men are better at it.”

    

Something like this cannot be absolutely proven. It’s more of an opinion.”

    The best chefs are still men.

  79. MarcusD says:

  80. Spike says:

    Note how Ms Cope deflects the blame for her lack of culinary skills onto Camille Paglia, Betty Friedan, her mother and her grandmother – everyone except herself. This is typical modern-girl – not feminist – behaviour. She is now a victim of the system who freed her from the patriarchy!
    The only place where men can’t cook is in cartoons, commercials and American sitcoms, where they are stupid dolts who can’t do anything right. In the real word, men can cook quite happily and quickly, and are even better cooks, than women.

  81. new anon says:

    Off topic, but worth discussing.

    Femminst advocate, author of the book “Innovating Woman, and white knight Vivek Wadhwa writes “Why I am stepping out of the debate on women in technology.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/innovations/wp/2015/02/23/why-i-am-stepping-out-of-the-debate-on-women-in-technology/

    I started advocating for women in engineering in 2006… Over the past few weeks, I have been accused of financial impropriety, arrogance and insensitivity, and sexual harassment. You expect these types of insults from bloggers, but I was quite surprised to find them coming from a National Public Radio affiliate, WNYC…On February 6th, WNYC published a podcast titled “Quiet, Wadhwa”. It criticized me for “taking the oxygen out of the room” by “speaking for women.” There were more than 11 minutes of inaccuracies and innuendo made against me without even an attempt at fact-checking—despite the serious nature of the charges. The vast majority of allegations would not have passed a simple Google search. Yet I was not even asked to comment. WNYC completely disregarded the fact that I routinely share my media platform with women…

    His “crime” apparently is being a man trying to help women.

    You can’t make this up, but you could have predicted it.

  82. Dalrock says:

    @TFH

    I claim that a software program and relatively mundane AI could easily generate all the articles that these ‘feminist’ writers do, at vastly lower cost, destroying all of their jobs.

    This is true of many female jobs in general, but the boilerplate articles that ‘feminists’ generate could be churned out with ease.

    If we see the quality of these articles improve dramatically we will know you are right. However, I doubt it, because I doubt these women are getting paid much at all for this stuff. There are just too many other women competing to be “The Writer”. They will do anything to get in the spotlight. I would bet this woman pays the rent with her job at the University, and the same for Lorraine Berry. They have to have jobs teaching other aspiring feminists how to write so they can afford to have their job as “The Writer”. If Jenny Erikson ever asks for even a small raise, do you doubt that there are 50 other women who would sell their soul to turn out the same crap? These women work as as freelancers without benefits or even office space. You don’t even have to fire them, just don’t give them any more work. Software is expensive, not just to produce but to keep updated and enhanced. So long as there is an army of women dying to do the job no matter what the pay there will be no need to automate it.

  83. @dvdivx
    “No, my wife informing me after our last child that she was done having sex cheapened marriage to the point that it has no value. Something i will be more than happy to share with my son. Lucky many men are figuring out that marriage is little more than a scam. If you expect your wife to be there for you during severe health problems also than your “wisdom” will only come around to bite you, My wife also had a very low n count (I was her second) and came from a good family so you can not predict just how bad a marriage can get from the beginning of it.”

    I’m surprised no one else has tried to respond to you. If she’s let you know that, you probably need to “let her know” that you will not put up with it – it isn’t a marriage, and you are very right that it (at the very least) “cheapens” it. A sexless marriage kills a man’s soul. I’d be interested in what some of the wiser male commenters here would advise you to do.

  84. D42 says:

    @mikediver5

    I am afraid I have to disagree in part. I became the single parent of four when my wife died. I was working full time and the youngest was 3. I did the full time (+) job, kept house, and raised children with no consistent help. Yes, there were a few times where family helped out, but those were the exceptions. It is really not that hard.

    First everyone did anything they could. There were no free rides, everyone helped. When family did help they always reported that my littlest one was very independent. He wanted to pour his own milk for his cereal because he was a big boy and he could manage. The kids did their own laundry from the time they could reach the top of the washing machine. I was one of 7 and this was the same style with which I was raised. I was ironing sheets and pillow cases (my mother was a bit anal) from kindergarten on. Giving chores and responsibilities to children is good for them.

    Yeah, motherhood’s not “the hardest job”. However, it is a job. It’s the equivalent of being a nanny. Or a governess, if you homeschool.

    Children require supervision. Either the family does it themselves or they hire someone else to do it (daycare, aftercare, nanny, babysitters, school).

    Feminists are so messed up, they don’t respect a woman who does this job for her own family. It’s only acceptable to take care of children if it’s outside the home–basically raising someone else’s kids.

    Some families would rather keep their children out of the daycares and public school system. A SAHM or SAHD makes this a lot easier, if you can’t afford private school and aftercare.

    The reason a SAHM is important is to be there for the kids and to make sure they don’t go off the rails, not because it is a difficult and/or time consuming job. Mother is far from the hardest job in America; no matter how many times Oprah says so.

    Agreed!

  85. @dvdivx… read your earlier comment. The couples we’ve known that cohabitated before marriage had significantly worse marriages (or outright divorce) than the couples we knew that didn’t cohabitate. There is definitely something about “playing marriage,” and living together that changes the attitudes in the marriage afterwards. I’ve speculated that both partners (especially the woman, because she’s the one actively trying to keep his interest through giving him sex) tries to hide things about themselves during that “trial phase,” of their faux marriage life. They either hide things about themselves, or they act in unrealistic ways because they know they aren’t truly locked in and comfortable. It’s like a dating period except you’re roomates also, and they are of course, going to try to act the best they can for the most part. Then, once they are married, it seems the hidden things come out, and they relax on the things they were going above and beyond in (like your saying how she made you breakfast in bed everyday before marriage – its that kind of behavior that I’m talking about).

    The couples then, once married, are floored at how their partner has changed. They lived together right??? It should be the same as marriage right??? We knew a couple that lived together 2 years before marriage without any real complaint, and then a month afterwards, they were both incredibly unhappy and complaining about each other to friends! They should’ve still been in their “honeymoon” phase – but it was the biggest example my husband and I have seen of cohabitation having such a sharp negative effect on marriage.

  86. MarcusD says:

    “So long as there is an army of women dying to do the job no matter what the pay there will be no need to automate it.”

    Reminds me of: https://www.mturk.com/mturk/welcome

  87. KP says:

    Roommate Wanted (Must Be Non-Problematic) [emphasis added]”

    Clearly that’s where diversity kicks in, considering the existing roommates.

  88. MarcusD says:

    was my 1st marriage ‘valid’ or ‘null’ in the eyes of the church
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=947957

    Abstaining in Marriage
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=947950

  89. MarcusD says:

    @KP
    “Clearly that’s where diversity kicks in, considering the existing roommates.”

    It depends on how you define ‘valid’ groups. I think that’s how those disposed to decide can keep a straight face (or at least, maintain minimal cognitive dissonance).

  90. Elspeth says:

    Which curriculum do you use? We started out with BJU. Now we use Monarch.

    We use a combination of programs. For math, Teaching Textbooks. For language, First Language Lessons for the Well Trained Mind (level 2) and Easy Grammar. We use the Sonlight reading list, and Abeka’s Our Father’s World for science basics, while they do more detailed and hands on science work at our co-op. They also take PE there. For history and geography, we’re using the Classical Conversations curriculum even though we weren’t a part of a community this year. No time. For music the girls are going through the piano lessons offered at the Hoffman Academy website. They’re free and very good.

    I know that was a lot of information, but we figured out early on that it was better for the girls and for me to pick the things we thought were the best fit from various curriculum rather than trudging through stuff that wasn’t a good fit for the sake of one thing that we liked about a curriculum.

    The girls are 1st and 3rd “grades” respectively, but they generally study the same material with the exception of math and writing, where the younger does better with work a little more in tune with her development and motor skills.

    @TFH:

    Two of my older children do help some with the teaching when they can, about two mornings a week. The oldest has too full a schedule to help except on occasion although she does do a lot of cooking on the weekend. All 3 of them are taking a full load of college classes so their time is limited. And yes, I know the common consensus on girls attending college. I’m not interested in rehashing that. But at least they here at home and help out.

  91. Elspeth says:

    Typo:

    At least they’re here at home and helping out.

  92. Corvinus says:

    “Most of the top chefs in the world are men.”

    First, classic moving the goalposts. I was talking about cooking in general, not being a chef. Second, just because men have a stranglehold on chefdom because it is a male-dominated field–nothing wrong with that at all!–does not automatically mean that they make observably better food overall than women. A matter of taste and preference, i.e. opinion. It is that male chefs are more likely to be recognized for their culinary skills since they are highly involved compared to female chefs.

  93. greyghost says:

    Corvinus
    Todays women can’t cook. men do that better because they have to. See the topic of article. Men cook better because women don’t want to degrade themselves by cooking for them.

  94. earl says:

    The whole idea that it is degrading to serve the ones you love is certainly NOT what Jesus taught.

  95. Novaseeker says:

    Off topic, but worth discussing.

    Femminst advocate, author of the book “Innovating Woman, and white knight Vivek Wadhwa writes “Why I am stepping out of the debate on women in technology.”

    It’s good that he’s finding out that you can’t win with that crowd. It’s bad that he has managed to do so much damage before learning this, however. This became crystal clear to me observing these people as an undergraduate, really.

  96. Thomas says:

    Found this in a discussion board topic about the movie Old Fashioned:

    Can’t wait to see it. Gives hope for us good guys who often seem to finish last. (hoping my current relationship breaks that cycle !🙂

    Ouch.

  97. BradA says:

    divdivx,

    I would agree with what girlwithadragonflytattoo said. The “trial marriage” period likely had more of an impact than you realize. Even the impact before starting because both of you were fine with that almost certainly contributed to the attitude you note about your wife.

    Not valuing marriage commitments makes us not value marriage commitments. It really is that simple.

  98. Anonymous Reader says:

    Elspeth
    I know that was a lot of information, but we figured out early on that it was better for the girls and for me to pick the things we thought were the best fit from various curriculum rather than trudging through stuff that wasn’t a good fit for the sake of one thing that we liked about a curriculum.

    “Absorb what is useful, Discard what is not, Add what is uniquely your own.” – Bruce Lee

  99. BradA says:

    We tried a wide range of materials when homeschooling. We ended up with a relaxed schooling approach along with some Saxon Math. My wife also used a multi-year/age curriculum on and off. I had a LOT of good things to read and learn with around the house.

    We got our children to know as much as many leaving the government schools, though other issues kept us from the success Elspeth and others are sure to have.

  100. mikediver5 says:

    I taught incoming freshmen in college, and I can tell you that if your children know only the same amount as those leaving government schools, then they are woefully ignorant. I have a higher standard for homeschooling.

  101. Lyn87 says:

    I have to note that new commenter Corvinus has made four comments since his appearance yesterday in “She Isn’t Getting Enough Dates.” In each of those posts he has supported the FI.

    In his first two posts he took us to task for saying that a man has the right to pass on a woman who chooses to be fat and unkempt, a long as she claims to be a Christian. In his third post he used the classic fem-shaming technique of telling Easttexasfatboy that he was going to be lonely if he wasn’t willing to accept women who can’t be bothered to learn how to cook, and in his latest post he opines that the real reason all the top chefs are men is because women’s excellence is not recognized (as if women don’t constantly, endlessly get showered with praise any time they do anything as well as an average man).

    This is Dalrock’s forum and he doesn’t drop the ban-hammer easily (nor would I ever suggest he do so), but the world (and most churches) is filled with people ragging on men, shaming men, and making un-reciprocated demands of men. Corvinus appears to think we need more of that here.

    I hope he proves me wrong – we can always use fresh perspectives – but defending the central tenets of the FI is neither fresh nor useful.

  102. BradA says:

    MikeDiver5,

    I taught incoming freshmen in college, and I can tell you that if your children know only the same amount as those leaving government schools, then they are woefully ignorant. I have a higher standard for homeschooling.

    You try raising 4 children who reject you as parents and then return to their dysfunctional birth family at 17 (legal in Texas). Then you can get back with me. They came from a family with long histories with CPS and having children very young (14 in at least one case).

    Judge me when you have walked through this. Not the outcome I aimed for, but you live with the hand you are dealt.

  103. BradA says:

    I thought Corvinus was being sarcastic at first. Not sure now though.

  104. Lyn87 says:

    BradA,

    I don’t think MD5 had you in mind. Some home-schoolers are bad, and treat it like a hobby, which then becomes some school’s problem when the parents realize they don’t know what they’re doing and their kids are three years behind in every subject, so they they enroll them somewhere.

  105. BradA says:

    That could be. We may have had similar results and I initially did not consider my children “graduated,” but I relented as I drove by a local government school enough to realize our children knew as much as many of them did upon graduation.

    Many blame us and homeschooling for our children’s failures, but they are not being bright when they put that blame on us.

  106. feeriker says:

    The whole idea that it is degrading to serve the ones you love is certainly NOT what Jesus taught.

    True, but Christofeminism is ignorant of (and apathetic, if not hostile toward) what Jesus had to say, especially when it conflicts with the FI.

  107. Joe says:

    If it’s wrong to make women to cook, it’s wrong to make men cook too. Equality, right? So go get your own food then, ya bint. And screw the family and friends of the deceased, becuase this funeral isn’t about them, it’s about politics…

  108. I have to note that new commenter Corvinus has made four comments since his appearance yesterday in “She Isn’t Getting Enough Dates.” In each of those posts he has supported the FI.

    Moot point. I don’t think Cornivus will be back. There was a very lecturing tone in those posts, not even an ounce of debate in them. Cornivus was challenged with the logic provided by red pills and just bolted.

  109. Brad,

    I thought Corvinus was being sarcastic at first. Not sure now though.

    I think Cornivus might either be a lonely ugly fat girl, the mother or father of a lonely ugly fat girl, or just a feminist woman who thinks feminism and Christianity are compatible and is used to being agreed with all the time. I am not sure which and I don’t think it will matter. I doubt Cornivus will be back and if he/she/it is, Cornivus isn’t going to respond to thoughtful debate.

  110. lonestarwhacko says:

    Gentlemen! Don’t worry about Corvinus. He’s entitled to his opinion. However, as The Bible points out repeatedly, “by their fruits shall you know them.” When a female doesn’t care about herself, we notice. I was married to a woman who showed her true self after we married. When she got angry, she would literally beat our dogs. And, she was really churchy. Couldn’t cook to save her life. This woman who mistreated our dogs wanted a baby. Lord have mercy. She won’t seek help. Here in Texas she actually has to go off the deep end before intervention. She’s a Jehovah’s Witness. They don’t know what to do with her either. She’s an RN. Anyways, females who aren’t nurturing and empathetic are a disaster. Experience can be a harsh taskmaster. I literally didn’t see this coming. After the divorce, I discovered the red pill. I’ve learned that certain aberrant behaviors can’t be dealt with. So, fruits and trees, right? What I will say is that a young man should really be careful. Marriage 2.0 isn’t a joke. You can literally be taken to the cleaners. My point is this: many fish in the sea. Most have sharp teeth. Nurturing, empathic women act in certain ways. Feral females in others. All the clues were there. I just wasn’t paying attention.

  111. mikediver5 says:

    Brad A I am sorry if you took my comment as a reference to your particular children. What I was try to say is that if anyone who homeschools marks their children knowing as much as those who graduate from government schools as a success, then they are hugely overestimating the government schools. My opinion is that homeschoolers have the opportunity to do much better; and should.

  112. Seth says:

    My fiancee can’t cook, mostly due to a doting grandmother, but she keeps me from pouring my own tea, saying, “I know you can get your own tea, but I need you to realize how much pleasure it brings me to do a simple thing like this for you.”

    I’ve tasked her with learning how to cook from her grandmother. She’s eager to get started.

    She’s Ukrainian.

  113. Oscar says:

    Elspeth says:
    February 25, 2015 at 5:30 am

    “… we figured out early on that it was better for the girls and for me to pick the things we thought were the best fit from various curriculum rather than trudging through stuff that wasn’t a good fit for the sake of one thing that we liked about a curriculum.”

    We started out using the same curriculum for all the kids because we thought that would be easier on my wife, since we have so many of them. But we’re finding that their needs are different, so we may have to take your approach.

    We already have the 5-year-old on a different program (Timber Doodle), because it’s very hands-on, and fun for a little kid. One of our oldest twins is using Khan Academy, because she needs extra help with math. And our 9-year-old needs extra help with reading. We haven’t figured out what to do for her yet.

  114. Boxer says:

    Hi Oscar:

    For most of my adult life, I’ve lectured (philosophy and mathematics) to adults, though in the beginning I did primary school.

    And our 9-year-old needs extra help with reading. We haven’t figured out what to do for her yet.

    There are tons of good books out there that any nine year old will love. If it’s a she, Spyri’s “Heidi” and Sewell’s “Black Beauty” are good books to begin with. There’s not much trashy content and the text is challenging but doable. If he’s a he, Jack London’s books (my own favorite books as a boy) are great… though you’ll want to review for specific titles. “White Fang” is good, “The Iron Heel” and “Martin Eden” will be appropriate a couple of years hence.

    Make a game out of reading with him or her for short bursts. Fifteen minutes, twice per day is usually optimal. This gets the kid interested in the story and s/he’ll look forward to reading, but it’s not so long that boredom or fatigue sets in. Be consistent. Before you know it, s/he’ll be the best reader on the block.

    Good luck!

    Boxer

  115. Corvinus says:

    “Corvinus is well-known on other blogs for being a race nationalist, and hence a woman-worshipper.”

    Thanks, honey, for recognizing my handiwork.

    “However, as The Bible points out repeatedly, “by their fruits shall you know them.”

    Did you seek counsel in the form of a priest or minister? Back in the good old days, the community would intervene to help the marriage work.

    “There was a very lecturing tone in those posts, not even an ounce of debate in them.”

    It’s called matching rhetoric with rhetoric.

    “In his first two posts he took us to task for saying that a man has the right to pass on a woman who chooses to be fat and unkempt, a long as she claims to be a Christian.”

    I properly pointed out that, historically, Christian families would decide who would marry their offspring. They decision was NOT based on whether or not the boy or girl was attractive; rather, was he/she a servant to God. Your other two assertions are straw men and not even worthy of comment.

  116. Corvinus,

    “There was a very lecturing tone in those posts, not even an ounce of debate in them.”

    It’s called matching rhetoric with rhetoric.

    No. It’s called you can’t win a debate with red pill thinking (and you know it, and so do we) so you simply try and reframe the arguments, ignore them completely, or assemble strawmen. That’s all….

    ,,,and we are on to you.

  117. paddy says:

    I am a little surprised by the utilitarian attitude towards SAHM. What about modeling good behavior for your kids? Keeping them interacting with society at large and not just in the bubble of school? I certainly learned a lot by observing my SAHM and my self-employed business dad in all sorts of informal, unplanned situations.

  118. Laura says:

    @paddy

    I, too, am sometimes surprised by how many posters on Dalrock denigrate SAHMs. I was the youngest child, and my mother worked full time starting when I was three. She never complained, but she was burned out, and we children spent thousands and thousands of hours watching television. I was never able to participate in extracurricular activities, because there was no one to drive me, and during the summers, we were home alone unsupervised for up to eleven hours per day for eleven weeks in a row.

    I know people who worked full time who have children who have turned out well, but only if they have one or two children. I worked for most of my children’s childhood, because my husband divorced me and I had no choice. Their lifestyles, educations, and social opportunities were severely compromised from Day 1 of the separation.

    Assuming no home improvement projects are going on, you can keep a spacious house looking good in an hour or so per day, if you never skip a day AND you don’t have any children under six or seven. That would NOT include food preparation time and kitchen tidying. As far as taking care of young children, it isn’t so much the amount of time you actually spend on them as it is the fact that they can’t go very long without needing or wanting something. The presence of children chops your time into difficult to utilize scraps of time.

    Professional childcare is now so heavily regulated and expensive that most women with two young children CANNOT work full time and come out ahead financially. Even a lot of relatively well paid women are putting their children into daycare for 10 hours per day and seeing very little increase to the family exchequer after the full costs of working are taken into account.

  119. tacomaster2 says:

    Joe and Phillyastro, loved both of your comments.
    If any of you guys are interested in furthering your cooking education, Gordon Ramsay has a great YouTube series that shows you his top 100 recipes and cooking tips. It’s based on a show they aired in the UK but not here in the States. The accompanying cookbook is “Gordon Ramsay’s Home Cooking” which is all in our units of measurement.

  120. BradA says:

    A Homeschooling Note:

    My wife used the first volume from http://www.learning-adventures.org/index.html for several years. We may have gotten a bit into the second before things went haywire (unrelated to that), but she was still working on the series. I think it was supposed to have 5 in the set, but I am not sure what happened.

    Definitely worth the cost to buy and print out.

  121. BradA says:

    I would second Boxer’s recommendation to start all your children reading. Find good books and don’t focus on a program. Cover basic phonics and the skills to look up new words, then just get them reading. The content is not as important as it being compelling. I would avoid a lot of the PC/SJW crud, so that may take some work, but a lot of older books are just fine. Talk about what they read regularly so you can deal with attitudes and stuff that come up.

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