Sounds like bunch of 12 year olds.

The ladies of Jezebel describe the audience of 50 SoG:

The audience is about 98 percent female, and mostly in their early 20s.  …here we are, dragged in public like trenchcoated patrons at a porn palace. As the film begins, though, there’s a silken ripple of excited giggling. The whole thing feels very much like a sleepover.

A raunchy sleepover, that is. These are New York women: each sex scene is met with gasps, applause, appreciative snorts. Every joke, no matter how limp, goes over big. When we see a half-second shot of Christian’s pubes and the base of his dick, a woman behind me lets out a stifled half-gasp, half-moan, quarter-giggle. The same woman growls “yesssssss” at several relevant moments. She is not alone. This crowd is rowdy. This crowd means it.

I’m not surprised the audience was immature, but I am surprised the audience was so young. I would have expected more of the Twilight Moms demo.

This entry was posted in 50 Shades of Grey, Jezebel, Movies. Bookmark the permalink.

117 Responses to Sounds like bunch of 12 year olds.

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  2. Glenfilthie says:

    “These are New York women:…”
    ———————————————

    Ayup. The sex starved harridans that mainstreamed homosexuality when men lost interest in ’em. I’ve see the type all to often these days. Mind you, the men of NYFC are not to be confused with real men either. If Al Quieda ever nukes an American city – then Noo Yawk Fuggin City is the one cultural dump to hit!

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  4. Novaseeker says:

    Probably the Manhattan effect.

  5. earl says:

    ‘These are New York women:’

    Tells you all you need to know.

  6. dewave says:

    I was very surprised to see this movie heavily advertised for Valentine’s Day – radio, web, google. That seems like such an odd thing to see as a couple. My only possible explanation was if the girl wanted more of that in their sex life but didn’t want to come out and say it, the movie could serve as an opening.

    Valentine’s Day advertising is of course almost completely tuned to what women want, and if 98% of viewers are women, it appears the marketing people knew their subject matter well.

    It also appears that women’s sexual tastes and desires are not as we have been led to believe.

  7. Shem says:

    “I’m not surprised the audience was immature, but I am surprised the audience was so young.”

    I’m surprised they’re so old. It was originally slated for PG-13. We know that kids get into R rated movies all the time. The industry counts on that. Most of the films on MTV awards have always been R rated and MTV is a teen channel. Also consider all the parents who will take their kids along with them to see this crap. Its not just mommy porn but mommy and daughter porn.

  8. I would have expected more of the Twilight Moms demo.

    Give it time.

  9. Elspeth says:

    I would have expected more of the Twilight Moms demo.

    Twilight appealed to females from teenagers all the way up to middle aged women, and this will too. After all, it was the married women who drove the book sales. It just so happens that early premieres are the kinds of thing that younger movie viewers patronize.

    The housewives and are going next week, after they are done extracting all the value they can out of Valentine’s weekend. Along with their divorcee friends.

  10. I was very surprised to see this movie heavily advertised for Valentine’s Day – radio, web, google. That seems like such an odd thing to see as a couple. My only possible explanation was if the girl wanted more of that in their sex life but didn’t want to come out and say it,

    It’s something for the ladies who don’t have a date to do.

  11. JDG says:

    The housewives and are going next week, after they are done extracting all the value they can out of Valentine’s weekend. Along with their divorcee friends.

    It’s been my experience that housewives don’t have too many divorcee friends. The still married women seem to self segregate from the divorced women.

  12. I liked the interview on Fox where a woman was sincerely asserting that, in the end the story affirms biblical morality.

  13. Elspeth says:

    Well I don’t have any divorcee friends, but I know that marital breakups seem to spread like a rash if you don’t extricate yourself.

    Several years back we had a deacon at our fairly large church tell my husband that he and his wife were leaving. When we asked why he said that there had been too many divorces filed, no one was doing anything about it in terms of church discipline, and he didn’t want his wife exposed to all those “rebellious men and women”. It was like the flu he said.

    Then as now, our involvement in our church has been with the grunt work ministires; feeding and clothing the homeless, distributing food boxes, etc. We are not privy to the inner workings of the higher ups except within the ministry our family volnteers in.

    We didn’t leave, but we did start noticing that divorces took place in waves. And women tend to support one another as they are suffering through the divorce process. Eventually the divorcees and married women do part ways though. You’re right. Marrid women only hang out with divorcees in the movies and on TV.

  14. Waah, you guys are only ripping on this because women like it!!!

  15. Stryker says:

    Dalrock – how about your take on the “christian alternative” to 50sog this weekend, Old Fashioned?

  16. Malleus says:

    Seconding Stryker’s request (above) for a “Dalrockian dissection” of “Old Fashioned”. Would be informative. (BTW, long time reader, first time commenter. Thank you for the work you put in to this blog. It’s a great resource.)

    [D: Thank you. Welcome. I touched on the movie briefly here.]

  17. earl says:

    ‘I liked the interview on Fox where a woman was sincerely asserting that, in the end the story affirms biblical morality.’

    Did she happen to explain further…or just threw that out there to appear like she wasn’t watching smut?

  18. Yoda says:

    And women tend to support one another as they are suffering through the divorce process.

    Suffering the women are?

  19. Yoda says:

    Like it because told to like they were.
    Susceptible to herd mentality they would be.

  20. Yoda says:

    My only possible explanation was if the girl wanted more of that in their sex life

    First World problem this would be.
    Sympathy I have not.

  21. Shem says:

    “My only possible explanation was if the girl wanted more of that in their sex life but didn’t want to come out and say it, the movie could serve as an opening.”

    But the BDSM is just a small part of what they want in their sex life. Mostly they want a guy like the Christian Grey character.

  22. JDG says:

    We didn’t leave, but we did start noticing that divorces took place in waves. And women tend to support one another as they are suffering through the divorce process.

    Yes, there is a period I’ve noticed during the process where contact is maintained (but later is discarded) and I believe as you that this contributes massively to the spreading of this wicked behavior.

    I can only speak to what I have witnessed, but support is not what I would call what these women give to each other. To me it’s support in the way I would support a bridge that was burning by throwing gasoline on the fire.

    I have irritated a number of church going women by calling them out for giving “you go girl” advice in a given setting (usually at church events like picnics, meals in the church basement, and even at a restaurant).

    ***Warning – rant on divorce enabling women follows.***

    Most of the “suffering” women that I have encountered actually seemed to be enjoying the divorce process, and I find it despicable to say the least. Usually it was a struggle for power or else just an excuse to get rid of the man. Almost always the woman was the driving force in the break up, and tried to play the victim all the while. I’ve lost count of how many of these I have witnessed personally.

    There were a few divorces over the years where I can recall it was the man who wanted it. Some of those were due to the woman’s relentless bashing. Many were due to the woman’s adultery. One was to protect his children. I have one friend who endured over 20 years of harping and disrespect. I still think he should have stuck it out, but I understand why he finally gave her the divorce she pestered him for all those years. One odd thing (and maybe this was a tell) is that she never filed herself. The other odd thing is that after he finally gave it to her, she then wanted him back. Alas, he was done and was not going back. The whole thing was tragic.

    I remember one case where the woman was heart broken and did not want to divorce, but the husband left anyway. I know she wasn’t perfect, but she had a kind heart and IMO as a professing Christian he really should have stuck with her and worked it out. I heard that he left the faith, but I’m not completely sure as I haven’t seen him since.

    In most of this I have seen women assist and encourage other women in the destruction of their own families. Although I often see men give each other terrible advice concerning marriage, I’ve yet to see a man at a church function tell another man to leave his wife, for any reason. I’ve seen women do it for the most frivolous reasons. Divorce sucks, and the women who encourage it are guilty of a grievous sin.

    ***Okay the rant is over.***

  23. Yoda says:

    But the BDSM is just a small part of what they want in their sex life. Mostly they want a guy like the Christian Grey character.

    Many things women want they do.
    Often not compatible with civilization they are.

  24. tz says:

    The prose is programmable: http://consumerist.com/2015/02/13/programmer-behind-uncanny-fifty-shades-of-grey-text-generator-doesnt-see-robots-taking-writers-jobs/

    I’m not familiar with the whole plot, but I do think society would be far better off if the handcuffs, leg-irons, or whatever were not removed. At least until the woman was eligible for Medicare.

    Where are the feminists? Oh, they are the ones giggling and breathing hard in the theaters.

  25. Farm Boy says:

    I have irritated a number of church going women by calling them out for giving “you go girl” advice in a given setting (usually at church events like picnics, meals in the church basement, and even at a restaurant).

    No sammiches for you, JDG.

  26. JDG says:

    No sammiches for you, JDG.

    Don’t I know it.

  27. bear says:

    I was once married to a Christian “feminist” ( she used the label herself) . Finally after our relationship had reached the pinnacle of unhappiness, we decided to go for counseling with my pastor. As we sat there he asked us some questions then he turned to my ex and he asks ” so when he comes from a hard day of work do you get up and greet him with a smile and ask how his day was? ” She answers “no”. He turns to me and asks ” how does that make you feel”? I respond ” like crap” He turns back to her and says” You need to work on being kinder to your husband” My ex responds ” If he wants to be greeted at the door why doesn’t he just get a dog” My pastor then looks at her and says ” You have a major heart problem that you need to repent of. Until you do theres not much good counseling will do” She never attend church with me again and left a few months later

  28. Forge the Sky says:

    Kudos to your pastor, bear. I mean, it should be an obvious thing but….

    It’s been amusing in my workplace hearing about the 50 shades fiasco. A few of the women plan to attend, and a few are trying to forward a petition to the city to prohibit showings in the theater on moral grounds.

    Things have been tense.

  29. Farm Boy says:

    Bear,

    So where is she now?

  30. JDG says:

    I was once married to a Christian “feminist”

    A feminist to be sure. The Christian aspect remains to be seen.

  31. BradA says:

    What characteristics of Christian Grey do you think are compelling? I will never read the book or watch the movie, so this is the only way I would find out. I have read snippets about it here and there, but I am most interested in what all of you see as the compelling parts of his fictional personality.

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  33. new2redpill says:

    @BradA

    I havnot gone near the book or the movie, nor will I, but I spoke to someone who has read the book and she confirms this commentator is right on the money:

    http://fightthenewdrug.org/five-things-fifty-shades-of-grey-teaches/#sthash.wWehj7Qb.ei4EDlja

    The sad thing is that she is in her twenties and despite the truth in what this says, she still states she cannot wait to she the movie.

  34. Boxer says:

    BradA:

    There’s nothing compelling about Christian Grey. He is a cutout, a character without character. I mean, really, a trillionaire who supposedly manages multiple businesses somehow spends all day banging some dull woman?

    I try to be charitable, as the author is not a writer, but the whole book is utter schlock.

    If you want literary erotica, written by a woman, *Story of O* is at least readable, with a plot and a story and an arc, and developed characters. I find so many similarities that I suspect that’s the original source for parts of 50 Shades of Grey anyhow.

    Boxer

  35. earl says:

    “You have a major heart problem that you need to repent of. Until you do theres not much good counseling will do”

    Now that’s a pastor who knows what he is talking about.

  36. BradA says:

    Interesting points Boxer. I was responding to the statement that Christian Grey is what women really want. Can anyone who said that clarify what they were thinking?

    Or is this just really and example of at such women wanting something that is totally inconsistent?

  37. Yoda says:

    There’s nothing compelling about Christian Grey.

    Knows how to dominate women he does.
    Important this is.

  38. BradA says:

    N2RP,

    The column you note has good points, but the author fails to realize that some of the things he/she dislikes are really true. We have talked about women loving bad boys many times. Many do return, over and over to bad boys. It may be annoying, but it is reality as well.

  39. earl says:

    ‘ There’s nothing compelling about Christian Grey.

    Knows how to dominate women he does.
    Important this is.’

    Not really…he’s what women imagine domination is. Run this out into real life and the woman eventually dominates him.

  40. Yoda says:

    Not really…he’s what women imagine domination is.

    True this would be.
    More dominate through intimidation and violence they do.
    Easier path this is.

  41. Spike says:

    My local cinema chain marketed FSOG with a love-heart and dressed it up with Valentine’s Day romanticism.
    My question is this: Is what is undoubtedly an abusive relationship (“BDSM involves the infliction of pain and the degradation of one party by definition) the new norm now? When did this happen? If so, are Personal Development / Sex Ed classes going to be re-tooled so that young men can understand that “No” actually means “Yes if you’re a super-rich Alpha!”

  42. BradA says:

    Someone I know claims FSOG is a great way to spice up a marriage. I guess they get married in the next two books as well.

    Amazing how many are not really thinking this through.

  43. Boxer says:

    My local cinema chain marketed FSOG with a love-heart and dressed it up with Valentine’s Day romanticism.

    Bear in mind that lots of women in our society are so damaged by capital, consumerism and social isolation, that they just consider “romance” to be whatever big corporations are packaging and selling to them under the label.

    Wearing a dog collar and letting some dude piss on me? Sure, that sounds very romantic. After all, the book told her so. (Lots of future in such a warm and loving relationship, and a perfect environment for kids to be born into, fersher.)

    I guess my point is that we can’t blame only women for this. We’re all stuck in this weird false state of consciousness. Recognizing that it’s an unhealthy counterfeit of a beautiful human experience is the first step, but the recognition is not a complete solution.

    Regards,

    Boxer

  44. Don Quixote says:

    Elspeth says:
    February 13, 2015 at 4:46 pm

    Eventually the divorcees and married women do part ways though. You’re right. Married women only hang out with divorcees in the movies and on TV.

    Yup!
    There is an old saying:
    Birds of a feather, stick together
    In my limited experience this is very true concerning divorced women. Watch out if your wife is friends with [or associates with] other divorced women. It doesn’t end there either, if her mother/sisters is also divorced she is on track to follow in the footsteps of her family/friends. Most churches are ignorant or don’t care about this stuff, and it’s sad that most guys find out the hard way. The example above: [bear says: February 13, 2015 at 9:51 pm] is the exception not the rule, from what I have seen in churches these days.
    With most churches desperate for more members do not trust what they teach regarding divorce and/or remarriage. Do you own due diligence.

  45. Boxer says:

    In my limited experience this is very true concerning divorced women. Watch out if your wife is friends with [or associates with] other divorced women.

    This is one of the most important truths of the androsphere, and one which all married men should fully internalize.

    I’ve seen it play out, time and time again. Divorcing women operate, seemingly, in waves. Their husbands are caught out, completely unaware.

  46. Opus says:

    I think we can safely predict that men will not be motivated to watch 50SoG. Despite the fact that men (as we know) cannot stop raping, movies about men abusing (even with female consent) are a yawn-fest for guys. 50SoG is the inverse of Venus in Furs. Some women enjoy being pissed on, as it is a sign he cares, which was what I was informed was my motive when on one occasion I came over some woman’s breasts. How can a woman confuse being used as a cum-mop with love?

  47. earl says:

    ‘How can a woman confuse being used as a cum-mop with love?’

    Well if they’ve never had real love before they’ll take what they think is love.

  48. Opus says:

    @Earl

    Come to think of it, I once pissed over a woman’s chest and was told it was over her heart. Now, I ask you, how could she have taken such an hostile act for affection, but you have already answered that.

  49. earl says:

    Dollars to donuts those gals had daddy issues.

  50. shammahworm says:

    “With most churches desperate for more members do not trust what they teach regarding divorce and/or remarriage. Do you own due diligence.”

    Thank God He wrote the correct teachings in a book everyone can read!

    I hope you’re doing well Don. I noticed you’ve yet to update your site with the correct teaching on porniea(1 Corinthians 5: 1 thoroughly discredits your claims about it) and the associated doctrines on biblical divorce and remarriage. You must again be warned about the false teachings on your site. If you don’t change what is on your site to reflect the Biblical teachings on divorce and remarriage you are a liar and guilty of spreading false doctrine.

    A NOTE TO DALROCK: I know many of my posts cause heated discussions which stray away from the original topics. But it’s necessary for the sake of sound doctrine. Both Artisanal Toad and Don Quixote have refused correction in the past and parrot lies which directly contradict the scriptures. Both of these posters are much more active than me and I believe it undermines this blog’s purpose to allow them to continue in their falsehoods unchallenged.

    AT has repeatedly claimed the book of Deuteronomy(or part of it) was a “judicial ruling” by Moses and not the direct commands of God(Deuteronomy 1: 3) which is naked heresy.

    Don Quixote cites false versions of the Bible to avoid hard questions our previous discussions yielded. These versions altered the context of what the KJV(also the ESV) was saying so as to allow him to avoid the questions entirely.

    Posts on my own blog and this one over the past however many months show these things. I apologize for any inconveniences you have if you attempt to wade through the walls of text.

    I type in all caps for emphasis, but this is important enough to shout.

    IT’S CRITICAL FOR YOUNG MEN CONSIDERING MARRIAGE TO KNOW THAT DIVORCE IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN BIBLICAL IN CASES OF SEXUAL IMMORALITY.

  51. cynthia says:

    I predict this will be a highly popular sleepover movie among preteen and teenage girls. Just like Interview with a Vampire was for my generation.

  52. earl says:

    ‘IT’S CRITICAL FOR YOUNG MEN CONSIDERING MARRIAGE TO KNOW THAT DIVORCE IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN BIBLICAL IN CASES OF SEXUAL IMMORALITY.’

    “And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” Matthew 19:10

    What I also think is important there is that the man is the one who initiates the divorce in this scenario. Giving the power for women to be sexually immoral and divorce leads to what we got now in marriage.

  53. The Brass Cat says:

    Don Quixote says:

    In my limited experience this is very true concerning divorced women. Watch out if your wife is friends with [or associates with] other divorced women. It doesn’t end there either, if her mother/sisters is also divorced she is on track to follow in the footsteps of her family/friends.

    This is very true, I’ve seen it in action. This phenomenon is due to the herd mentality of women. One member of the herd starts running, this signals others to run, and soon you have a stampede.

    The herd is an analogy, of course. It is more accurate to say that women don’t like to take action independently and risk not having social support. If other women in her matrix are divorcing/divorced then she knows she’s likely to have social support.

    This coin has another side… Divorced women are miserable and want to drag down others into their state. I warned my wife that divorce is contagious so don’t have divorcees as friends. As it so happens, some miserable divorced harpies at her job tried to denigrate our marriage (of which they know nothing about) and accused her of still being in the “honeymoon phase.” She avoids non-work-related conversations with these women now. All they like to do is bitch and moan to anyone who will listen.

  54. Larry J says:

    My wife and I went to see “American Sniper” yesterday. That’s my kind of love story. Excellent movie.

  55. Shem says:

    “My question is this: Is what is undoubtedly an abusive relationship (“BDSM involves the infliction of pain and the degradation of one party by definition) the new norm now? When did this happen? If so, are Personal Development / Sex Ed classes going to be re-tooled so that young men can understand that “No” actually means “Yes if you’re a super-rich Alpha!”

    Nope, Sex Ed classes will be re-tooled so that young men can understand safe words.

  56. Shem says:

    “Interesting points Boxer. I was responding to the statement that Christian Grey is what women really want. Can anyone who said that clarify what they were thinking?

    Or is this just really and example of at such women wanting something that is totally inconsistent?”

    Sure I’ll clarify. The Grey character is young, extremely good looking, super rich and totally devoted to the Anastasia character, who while young, is not nearly as good looking and not rich.
    I don’t know any non-rich plain jane who wouldn’t absolutely love for a hot rich guy to be totally into her, do you?

  57. Shem says:

    “Christian isn’t a manic pixie dreamgirl but… a brooding dominant dreamboy. He showers Anastasia with outlandish gifts. A brand new cherry red Audi! A first edition of Tess of the d’Urbervilles! Helicopter rides! New clothes! And that’s not all. He also tells Anastasia how beautiful she is, how much she moves him, how much she turns him on, how devoted he is to her. He takes charge and leads her while also respecting her as a person.”

    http://thefederalist.com/2015/02/13/fifty-shades-a-cry-for-help-from-women-betrayed-by-feminism/

    BradA, is that clarification enough for you?

  58. BradA says:

    Those are only valuable because she was already attracted to him. I was interested in knowing what was attractive in him, not what things he did that she liked once she was already attractive.

    A guy she was not attracted to giving or doing those things would be considered a creep.

  59. A guy she was not attracted to giving or doing those things would be considered a creep.

    …abuser and rapist.

  60. JDG says:

    …abuser and rapist.

    And that’s just for looking at her.

  61. BJA says:

    Why is this movie such an offense? Men have their little fantasies and escapes from reality – 99.9% of men watch porn, the new Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue came out this weekend to rave reviews, the annual money-making hooplah of the SuperBowl, etc. Pretty sure that a lot of the men who indulge in these activities are Christians and married, too. What’s wrong with women watching a lousy movie that they enjoy?

  62. JDG says:

    What’s wrong with women watching a lousy movie that they enjoy?

    Who is stopping them?

    Suppose it where true that 99.9% of men thought that dog poo was good for a salad topping.

    1st – Does that mean that no one should point out the hypocrisy of women using cat poop on their salads while shaming men for using dog poo?

    2nd – Just because “everyone” is doing it doesn’t mean they should be.

  63. Why is this movie such an offense? Men have their little fantasies and escapes from reality – 99.9% of men watch porn, the new Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue came out this weekend to rave reviews, the annual money-making hooplah of the SuperBowl, etc. Pretty sure that a lot of the men who indulge in these activities are Christians and married, too. What’s wrong with women watching a lousy movie that they enjoy?

    Because it is an outrageous lie that women seem to believe will happen to them. It creates an impossible to achieve dynamic for the male species and women need to be shamed because of that, just like men do with porn. It is also complete and utter garbage and women who watch and read this tripe deserve to be scorned, shamed and shunned. It also destroys marriages, creates division and is so utterly devoid of reality – I mean, come on, a 27 year old billionaire spending that much time on some vapid female… it’s twilight all over again, a completely soul sucking and empty diatribe of women fantasising over the impossible to get male.

    If women really want to watch movies like this and pay to see and read utter junk, perhaps they shouldn’t get married to such lowly and ordinary men and lie to them and actually try and pursue it instead.

    And lastly, it shutters the lie of women wanting the ‘nice guy,’ men are told that women don’t like men dominating them but that’s exactly what they want.

    If men were constantly going to see the next porn movie at a cinema near you, constantly proclaiming it the story of a lifetime and having it on fakebook and shoving it in their husband’s face, yeah, I guess you could get over it..

    And here’s the real deal, it’s not an escape from reality, it’s an escape from their husband, from the ordinary man on the street. And if they really feel that way, perhaps the issue is with women and not men shaming them for this movie.

  64. BJA says:

    @FeministHater
    I’m confused – how is this different from porn? I don’t watch porn, but I don’t really care if others watch it. You could replace the term ‘movie’ with the term ‘porn’ in your response and it would be the exact same thing.

    -Men use porn to escape their reality and fantasize about things that are completely unrealistic and will never happen. It’s misleading, detrimental, and makes men feel entitled to things they’ll never actually get. “It’s an outrageous lie that [men] believe will happen to them.” Note: no women think this will actually ever happen to them. lol
    -Men in relationships, married, and single all use porn – it’s laughably much more widespread than the female viewership of this one lousy movie.
    -Porn has the potential to cause major problems within a relationship or marriage.
    -Porn has the potential to lie to men (and especially boys!) and cause unrealistic expectations that can be detrimental to relationships with real women (and girls!).
    -Porn is “utter junk”, too.
    -Porn also “shatters the lie that [men] want a nice girl”. Porn use tells us that men secretly really want some sexy, horny, slutty, barely legal, non-marriage material/non-future mother material, random stranger to screw and toss away. Men don’t want a good girl.

    See what I did there?

    The differences between this movie and porn is that:
    -For a lot of women, this is a one-time only event with their girlfriends on a Friday night. Porn is a regular activity at the click of a button, accessible 24/7 in the home you share with your family (and sometimes while your wife is sleeping upstairs and your kids are asleep down the hall). With porn you actively masturbate to in the privacy of your own home and bring yourself to physical climax (climax that you SHOULD really be sharing with your wife!) – but the FSOG movie isn’t even XXX-rated. You’ve heaped a lot of scorn on a 2 or so hour movie that only a small subset of women have actually seen. I highly doubt many women are going to change their entire outlook on life or their behavior (or view their husbands differently – lol), based on a silly movie. It’s like saying that watching a Holocaust movie is going to prompt widespread racism or violence. Or that men are going to dump their wives, because they watched a little porn when they were home alone. It’s just a movie.

    I haven’t seen the movie and I probably never will (though, I’ve read about it in the news), but I really don’t think it’s a big deal and certainly no greater a transgression than what men commit on a regular basis. Either you get rid of both porn and FSOG movies, or you keep them both. In my perfect little world, we wouldn’t have a need for either.🙂 But I like to think that most men of quality know the difference between what is real and what isn’t. That even though they get off on sluts, that they really want a good girl. I don’t use the fact that porn is ubiquitous, that 99.9% of men consume porn, and the fact that porn is unrealistic and damaging as an excuse to label all men a certain way or assume that men are too dumb to know reality and propose a ban on porn. The same can be said of women. If women are attracted to dominating, rich, handsome men (like Christian Grey) – it’s because of their biological programming, not because of a silly movie. Just like men are attracted to the young, beautiful, sexually available women in porn, not because porn is all over the internet but because of their biological programming. You’ve got the chicken and the egg mixed up, my friend. If you raise your kids right, movies (on screen or the XXX ones online) will not affect who they are, what they believe in, and how they behave.🙂

    But I do think it’s unfair to criticize one without owning up and shaming that the other is equally bad.

  65. Shem says:

    “Those are only valuable because she was already attracted to him. I was interested in knowing what was attractive in him,”

    I already said he’s drop dead gorgeous and outrageously wealthy. What else?

  66. Actually men do want a good girl. You seem to mistaking something here. Most men would happily marry a good woman if they could, if you don’t think that is true then this blog isn’t for you and you should just leave. The difference between men’s porn and womens’ porn is that one has become a cultural icon at the behest of women and the other is shamed, at the behest of women.

    We’ll go one further, women seem to think they can divorce men due to porn, perhaps men should be able to divorce women due to reading 50 shades of crap?

    Most men here will not have a Biblical wife and hence nothing to share. The one reason porn works is that it provides stimulation that huge amounts of men can get no where else, it’s not exactly about the beauty of the woman, you really think men what that for a wife? It’s pure visual stimulation, something most women can achieve with some effort. It’s not the same as expecting a billionaire handyman who will spank you just right and sweep you off your feet by taking you all over the world.

    There’s a world of difference in the expectation that each creates and no one is really saying male porn is good. It’s bad, sinful. The whole point of this article is to shoot down the fallacy that women are more moral than men. Which you have also done, so good on you. Now, please go tell all the lawmakers and Churchians in your area about your new revelation, for they seem to have forgotten.

  67. Shem says:

    “Men use porn to escape their reality and fantasize about things that are completely unrealistic and will never happen. It’s misleading, detrimental, and makes men feel entitled to things they’ll never actually get. “It’s an outrageous lie that [men] believe will happen to them.”

    Don’t buy for a second that most men believe what happens in porn will happen to them. I’ve watched porn and I never once thought I’d ever get that lucky.

  68. The other factor that is missed is that 50 shades of crap is kind of a rape fantasy. That so many women can read and go watch it and then return to their husbands as if they actually love them… If there husbands had done the same as Christian Grey, they would be guilty of rape and assault, which basically means their wives are not attracted to them and would prefer Christian Grey to spank and rape them.

  69. JDG says:

    But I do think it’s unfair to criticize one without owning up and shaming that the other is equally bad.

    One of the main attractions to sites like this is the fact that here women get criticized. There is very few places in the Western world where woman are criticized at all. If you want to hear men criticized for their vices, you can go virtually anywhere else, ABC,CBS, NBC, Google, MSN, Yahoo, ect, ect…

  70. BJA says:

    “Actually men do want a good girl. You seem to mistaking something here. Most men would happily marry a good woman if they could, if you don’t think that is true then this blog isn’t for you and you should just leave.”

    I thought I was pretty clear in stating that I do think a lot of men want a good girl. My point was that if you looked at how men’s sexual interests are portrayed by the media (and exploited by corporations), you’d assume that all men just want casual sex with a hot, slutty random woman (or multiple women). End of story. It’s similar to how women’s sexual interests are portrayed in the form of Christian Grey, and it’s not true. Women are happier with much less. You cannot take representations of our genders by the media to be true.

    “It’s not the same as expecting a billionaire handyman who will spank you just right and sweep you off your feet by taking you all over the world.”

    Are you sure this is what all women really want? Because if I looked at the SI Swimsuit Issue and all the panting that’s going on over it, I’d assume that Hannah Davis is what all men want. Just because something is sensationalized in the media (movie production companies paying off news networks to report “controversies” and promote sales of magazines or movies – it’s all about corporations and money) and people fall for it and consume it, it doesn’t mean that it’s what people want in reality. I would consider going to see FSOG in a few instances: if I had free tickets and there wasn’t anything else I wanted to see, for “shits and giggles”, boredom, if my friends all wanted to see it (they don’t), it got amazing reviews (it didn’t), etc. Just because women go to see a movie, it doesn’t mean that this is what they want in a man or that it will sway them in any way. My boyfriend is dirt broke (as am I), fresh out of school, we are scraping money together to get married next year. He’s also not “conventionally attractive” (as I’ve been told). I’ve had people tell me that I could land a richer guy, a hotter guy, etc. But I don’t care. He’s a good, decent, sweet man and watching some silly movie won’t change how I feel for him. I have other friends who also married the ‘antithesis of a Christian Grey’, too. They are quite happy. I don’t think you give women enough credit.

    Are you single? I know that when I was single, I was kind of bitter and jaded. I thought men had outrageous expectations of women. That they expected us to be airbrushed, sexy, hotties 24/7 like their porn girls. But after I met my guy, I realized that he doesn’t expect much out of me and he realized that I don’t expect a lot out of him. We both built the opposite sex up into something they weren’t.

    “It’s bad, sinful.” Agreed. I wouldn’t dump a guy for watching it, but it doesn’t have a place in marriage (as does female versions of ‘marriage escapes’).

  71. BJA says:

    @feministhater: I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE APPEAL OF RAPE FANTASY. Lol. I just do. not. get. it. It’s so morbid and frightening. Don’t get me started on that crap!

    I don’t really get why you think that women who see this movie are suddenly not attracted to their husbands. I find that rationale confusing. If my bf looked at Hannah Davis on the cover of SI, I wouldn’t assume he wasn’t attracted to me anymore or being unfaithful. Humans are capable of finding multiple people attractive or even sexy, without jumping ship on their relationship or taking their relationship for granted. Humans are also just curious.

  72. If your husband decided to watch porn movies at the cinema with friends, you sure you would be okay with that? If your husband watched porn and read novels that were utterly outrageous and then came back home and told you that it was kind of sexy but wouldn’t do it with you, I think you would be quite taken a back and would start to realize your husband doesn’t want you but settled for you instead.

  73. Right not you’re rubbing it in that your soon to be ex-husband is not attractive enough for you.

  74. Shem says:

    “The other factor that is missed is that 50 shades of crap is kind of a rape fantasy. ”

    Where did you get that idea? It’s the exact opposite of rape. Every sexual minutiae is negotiated, renegotiated, written down and signed in a contract. Much ado is made how this takes up several pages of the book and not a small chunk of the movie.

  75. JDG says:

    Where did you get that idea? It’s the exact opposite of rape.

    Which kind of rape are we talking about here? Rape rape? Lack of consent rape? I was drunk rape? Regret rape? I got cheating rape? Verbal rape? He looked at me rape?

  76. Where did you get that idea? It’s the exact opposite of rape. Every sexual minutiae is negotiated, renegotiated, written down and signed in a contract. Much ado is made how this takes up several pages of the book and not a small chunk of the movie.

    Never read it, nor will I. I have not seen the farcical on screen either. I pity you for having done so. Sounds terribly boring, having to negotiate every last detail..

    Anyway, it’s ‘kind of rapey’ because if the man weren’t Christian Grey it would be rape. If it were a woman’s husband, it would be rape. It shows that women don’t think anything of allowing some strange billionaire hot guy to do everything and anything to them but would deny every one of those things to her husband.

    Their fantasy reflects exactly what sex they would prefer and with whom they would do it, i.e. not their husbands.

  77. Tam the Bam says:

    “I mean, come on, a 27 year old billionaire spending that much time on some vapid female… it’s twilight all over again, a completely soul sucking and empty diatribe of women fantasising over the impossible to get male. “
    I was finally hunted down and tasered by a trailer, despite resolutely ignoring the tidal wave of promo guff since forever.
    And was mighty puzzled. What is this? Is this it?
    “The Midget and the Dumpy Shopgirl”, by the Bros. Grimm? Turns out he’s actually six foot and from Belfast. She must be massive.

  78. Tam the Bam says:

    “99.9% of men ..” killer stat hun
    Some indeterminate section of that 99.9% aren’t even actual biological men.

  79. BJA says:

    @Feministhater:

    “If your husband decided to watch porn movies at the cinema with friends, you sure you would be okay with that? If your husband watched porn and read novels that were utterly outrageous and then came back home and told you that it was kind of sexy but wouldn’t do it with you, I think you would be quite taken a back and would start to realize your husband doesn’t want you but settled for you instead.”

    I’d feel like he saw a silly movie and then he came home. Lol. I wouldn’t feel rejected or that he settled for me. It’s just a movie. When you are in a serious relationship with someone and you are wholeheartedly committed to one another and you trust one another, these little things don’t mean very much. I know that’s hard to understand right now, but when it happens to you (and I know it will), you’ll get it.

  80. BJA says:

    @ tam the bam

    It’s not a stat, it’s hyperbole, hun.

  81. Lyn87 says:

    Pardon me for pointing out the obvious, but BJA is an (sort-of, unofficially) engaged woman. (She referred to her “boyfriend” rather than her “fiance,” but noted that the are saving money to marry. We used to call that “engaged-to-be-engaged.”)

    Engaged women are not exactly known for being rational, so none of us should assume that the views she holds about relationships are the results of significant experience, observation, or study… or that she will hold the same views after she’s been married for a couple of years.

    Her friends are trying to tell her that she’s settling, but that doesn’t mean it’s true: if a lot of women didn’t vastly overestimate their MMV the internet would not be clogged with “Where Have All the Good Men Gone?” articles. But there’s a danger that she may start to believe it herself a few years down the line once the honeymoon is over and the daily reality of marriage has set in, if indeed they marry at all.

    I also note that she asked feministhater, “Are you single?” That’s a common thing among feminists, so I would advise against EVER writing that here again. In my observation it is always used as a club in these kinds of contexts – usually to imply that the person is too unappealing to have a relationship with a woman and does not understand what women “really” want. But BJA is single herself… she may think of herself as functionally-engaged, but at this point all she has is an informal agreement that she and her current boyfriend are going to get married at some point in the semi-distant future when they have “enough” money to do so. But since she’s a woman, her single status doesn’t count against her, because reasons.

    Anyway, the 50SOG kerfuffle isn’t concerning because a crappy book got turned into a crappy movie, but rather because of what the BDSM-lite juggernaut tells us about the lies boys and men are told about women’s sexuality.

    BJA: as a single woman you cannot have any idea what boys and men are led to believe about women… by the culture, the law, and even most churches. And most of it is not only wrong, but actively counter-productive. You may not worry about men’s fantasies, but no man will ever have the means of destroying you and getting the government to force you to pay for it. If men had all the power (as women do now), few men would worry about trashy female fan-fiction and what it says about the way many women are.

  82. Gunner Q says:

    You’re a troll, BJA, but you found Dalrock’s blog during a lull. I have time. Prepare for fisking!

    “-Men use porn to escape their reality and fantasize about things that are completely unrealistic and will never happen.”
    Like sex with their cold-hearted wives.

    “-For a lot of women, this is a one-time only event with their girlfriends on a Friday night.”
    One time only? *snicker*

    “-Men in relationships, married, and single all use porn – it’s laughably much more widespread than the female viewership of this one lousy movie.”
    One movie only? *SNORT* By the way, the average bookstore has one magazine rack of girlie rags and 500 square feet of romance novels.

    “but the FSOG movie isn’t even XXX-rated.”
    Neither is most male porn.

    “-Porn has the potential to lie to men (and especially boys!) and cause unrealistic expectations that can be detrimental to relationships with real women (and girls!).”
    I know this one guy who used so much porn, he began thinking women aren’t supposed to be fat. He hasn’t had a girlfriend for three years because of that unrealistic expectation.

    “Porn use tells us that men secretly really want some sexy, horny, slutty, barely legal, non-marriage material/non-future mother material, random stranger to screw and toss away WHEN SHE INEVITABLY BECOMES A PAIN IN THE ASS. Men don’t want a good girl BECAUSE THEY GENERALLY RESPECT HER VIRGINITY. ”
    Fixed it for you.

    Male porn tells us men secretly want women to have long hair, pleasant smiles, discernible hips and enough youth to not need fertility treatments. Male video porn tells us men also secretly like women who show affection, listen and talk to him by name. The 36-24-36 body measurement is totally optional; men’s tastes in body shape are pretty wide.

    This is good news for you, BJA. Male porn is proof that you too can be attractive! All you need to do is be physically fit, respectful and affectionate. Of course, most women would rather burn in Hell. Your choice.

  83. Shem says:

    “I know this one guy who used so much porn, he began thinking women aren’t supposed to be fat. He hasn’t had a girlfriend for three years because of that unrealistic expectation.”

    BBW porn will heal what ails him!

  84. BJA says:

    Lynn87: If you actually read what I wrote, asking feministhater if he was single was an attempt to empathize with him, there was no attempt to talk down to him or call him “unappealing,” but thanks for going there anyway…. I felt really jaded when I was single and his comments remind me of me (I stated this pretty clearly in my post). I’m pretty sure he would have fought his own battle if I was actually trying to insult him (but he didn’t, because I wasn’t).

    “Engaged women are not exactly known for being rational, so none of us should assume that the views she holds about relationships are the results of significant experience, observation, or study…” But a few paragraphs later, “But BJA is single herself….” So am I irrational because I’m engaged or irrational because I’m single? I’m not the one flip flopping or fighting attacks that never happened. Lol.

  85. BJA says:

    @Gunner Q: I was being facetious.

  86. Lyn87 says:

    There’s no conflict in what I wrote – you think of yourself as being not single. Specifically you think of yourself as being engaged, and engaged women aren’t known for being rational. That’s the emotional part. But there’s also a cognitive part…

    You are single. You are not married: you are not even engaged – you just have a serious boyfriend, and that means that you have no “inside” knowledge of what it means to not be single, although you are implying that you do.

    I’m sure most of the guys here understood me just fine… if you weren’t single you probably wouldn’t have needed me to explain that to you.

  87. Lyn87 says:

    Actually, I will offer additional clarification to what I wrote at 7:54. Although you are, by any rational definition, a single woman, you feel as though you are not, which is why you constantly refer to your relationship status as something that it is not.

    You seem to think of yourself as “someone who is not single”… not because that is true (it manifestly is not), but because you have allowed your feelings to trump what your mind knows is true… typical behavior for a single woman in the emotional storm of her “engagement” – even though the engagement exists only in your mind heart.

  88. BJA says:

    @Lyn87: Yes, I know that I am single and I never claimed to be engaged or married. And yes, I already know that my boyfriend is actually my boyfriend and not my fiancé or husband (lol). I was giving my view as a person in a serious relationship, never claimed to be giving “inside knowledge” as a married person. I used the term, “single” in its colloquial form, as it is commonly used.

    To be fair, my boyfriend doesn’t consider himself “single” either, so he must be catching my irrational feminine feelings and bearing through the emotional storm of our engagement that only exists in my mind. Lol. The entire premise of my comment has now collapsed, the empathy and honest human connection I was hoping to forge with feministhater has been destroyed, and I have been shamed. (so much tears).

    Thanks for the lolz, Lyn87. You’re alright.

  89. Shem says:

    For what it’s worth BJA I totally got you. I went through a long incel period in which I was intensely lonely, sad and bitter. The minute I started dating a woman, there was an immediate change for the better. And we were not even serious. I didn’t consider myself single anymore either because I was paired up with her practically every day. There was no ring, no sex for a few months anyway, nothing that made us official. Yet we were together and my loneliness and bitterness just fell away. Single, paired, call it what you want, it feels good to be close to someone. It changes you. It changed me at least.

  90. Lyn87 says:

    I’m glad to have been of assistance.

  91. earl says:

    ‘Why is this movie such an offense? Men have their little fantasies and escapes from reality – 99.9% of men watch porn, the new Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue came out this weekend to rave reviews, the annual money-making hooplah of the SuperBowl, etc. Pretty sure that a lot of the men who indulge in these activities are Christians and married, too. What’s wrong with women watching a lousy movie that they enjoy?’

    First of all men don’t get off the hook if they enjoy porn…it has very real damaging effects to them.

    Second…when women start watching these type of movies or more likely read the book, it produces the same damaging effects to them. And since men still have this protective nature to them they don’t want women to damage themselves like that.

  92. Minesweeper says:

    BradA – the appeal of FSOG is that the girl isn’t just getting screwed over by a handsome billionaire who is surrounded by other beautiful women that he can easily have in a heartbeat but doesn’t want.

    Its that she submits to him, gives herself up for him, which then has the effect of having his raw sexual desire\control turn to love and adoration for her.

    Which ironically is what the bible says including the order of events.

    Eph 5:22: Wives Submit to your husband, then Eph 5:25 : husbands love your wives.
    Col 3:18: Wives Submit to your husband, then Col 3:19 : husbands love your wives.
    1 Pet 3:1: Wives Submit to your husband, then 1 Pet 3:7 : husbands give value to your wives.

    She captures him, completely, using un-customary non direct methods, which is a strong female fantasy in its own right.

  93. Shem says:

    “She captures him, completely, using un-customary non direct methods, which is a strong female fantasy in its own right.”

    They may not be customary but they are very direct. Supposedly several pages of the book and several long minutes of the movie are dedicated to negotiating down to the last detail what will and will not be permitted in the “box”, or the BDSM room. This is, I guess, a common routine in Dom/sub relationships. Then it’s all written up in contract form and signed. Anything but subtle. You’d think it would kill the spontaneity and tingles but people in the “lifestyle” swear it only serves to enhance.

  94. BJA says:

    Thanks, Shem. Your comment is exactly how I feel. I remember when I was “unpaired” (or whatever you want to call it) feeling so sad, lonely, depressed, and bitter. I never thought those feelings would ever go away. I never thought I would ever meet a guy who respected my values and faith, until it actually happened. I suspect that feministhater feels the same way and I empathize because it’s painful as hell. It doesn’t matter that i’m not married, the feeling of just transiently finding someone who gets you is enough to make that sadness and bitterness disappear. Even if my boyfriend and I break up, he has given me so much hope that I never had before. I just wanted to let feministhater know that it will happen for him, too, even if it seems unfathomable right now.

  95. Bill Price says:

    If you want to see the Twilight Moms, I bet you’ll find them at the matinee while their husbands are at work.

  96. feeriker says:

    So am I irrational because I’m engaged or irrational because I’m single?

    Yes.

  97. Tam the Bam says:

    “It’s not a stat, it’s hyperbole, hun.”
    And naturally, being a Laydee, the distinction is inconsequential.
    Can’t even comprehend the difference.
    “Oh, that was no Fact. That was .. a Literary Device”.
    Burds, eh? What are they like? Mince for brains.

  98. BJA says:

    Getting schooled by a burd sure hurts.

  99. Tam the Bam says:

    “.. not even wrong.”
    Incoming!! Attention-seeking missile.

  100. BJA says:

    It’ll hurt less if you put ice on it.

  101. MZT says:

    @BJA…I will tell you what I find offensive about the movie and books. I am offended because it sends an incredibly mixed set of signals to all men, but young men in particular. On the one hand we hear almost every day about domestic violence, how terrible it is for women and that it is one of the great evils of the world. And no sooner do we begin creating one of the larger movements in current history to end the domestic violence towards women, when one of the biggest selling female books in all of human history is published, and what’s it about? Why none other then the sexual wonders and pleasures of what is in essence domestic violence. I find that very troubling and difficult to understand and I am sure many men feel the same way. One would think that given the current environment in our society women would not want to be seen doing anything that might promote domestic violence of any sort. I mean, that’s just common sense…but instead we have this “phenomenon.” So yeah, young men are learning all right, and one thing they are definitely learning is to watch what women do, and not what they say.
    And btw, you certainly cannot argue that it’s the same as porn for men, because you don’t see thousands of angry men out on the streets protesting and making a huge social movement out of how terrible porn is for them, and then going home to read or watch porn that same night…but that’s basically what women are doing with the domestic violence in this 50 shades thing.
    I was at dinner the other evening with my wife discussing this very issue, and the incredibly mixed signals the 50 shades phenomenon sends to men, and she ( who hasn’t read the book but, like me, knows more then enough about it from the media) really had no answer to the hypocrisy of it all, except to giggle and say, “yeah, we’re kind of fickle aren’t we…to which I responded, “more than just kind of…”

  102. BJA says:

    MZT:

    “…you don’t see thousands of angry men out on the streets protesting and making a huge social movement out of how terrible porn is for them, and then going home to read or watch porn that same night.”

    But BDSM is not the same thing as rape and so neither fit your porn analogy. BDSM in FSOG is a form of consensual kinky sex (bondage, testing limits, a bit of pain, but all done with each partners’ consent to participate in the act). Rape is not consensual – it’s an assault of one person by another. Therefore, BDSM does not equal rape and watching a (dumb) movie about BDSM does not mean you are condoning rape.

    An example of BDSM would be a couple that both willingly use a blindfold and handcuffs or a whip in their mutually consensual but kinky love life. An example of rape would be one man being held down and violated against his will by a bigger stronger man in prison. The former example is kinky, consensual, and enjoyed by both parties (even if it’s a little painful). I imagine that’s where the phrase, “hurts so good” came from. Lol. The latter example is horrific, violent, traumatizing, a complete violation of the victim’s body/safety and will put that person at psychological risk for depression and PTSD and medical risk for STDs and rectal lacerations. That seems to be a pretty big difference.

    For what it’s worth, I don’t see the appeal of BDSM at all and I am not interested in seeing FSOG either. Cheers.

  103. MZT says:

    Yes, but you missed my point entirely…its not necessarily about the reality of kinky sexual relations, its about the perception this story creates at this juncture in our society’s history….about the hitting and the whipping that are a part of both domestic violence and BDSM, and how the apparent pleasure some women receive from being sexually punished (as exemplified in this book and movie) is being perceived by people, particularly young men, at this critical point in time when we are trying to stop all of the hitting of women in society, sexual or otherwise…it’s what is being “said” about domestic violence, versus, what is being “shown” at your local theater. One is horrific and one is pleasurable, and as I said before, sending such mixed signals to our already sexually confused younger generation is a very bad idea.

  104. BJA says:

    FSOG has been called “watered-down” BDSM. Young men already have access to graphic porn, rape porn, violent porn, incest, bestiality, “real” BDSM, etc at the click of a button with internet access (and they don’t even have to be 17 to access it at home, whereas FSOG is 17+). Maybe we should do away with their porn access, if they are so impressionable? The women in those films probably act like they like it/want it, too. So isn’t that misleading young men about what women want?

    I think young men are both intelligent enough and moral enough to be able to tell the difference between consensual BDSM and nonconsensual, sexual violence (rape) and domestic violence. If they can tell the difference between fiction and reality with gory murder movies, horror tv shows, violent video games, violent world news, pornography, and music with questionable messages and lyrics, I think they can handle a silly chick flick (that most of them WON’T EVEN GO SEE or bother reading the book). If they are so impressionable and confused (at age 17+, since that’s how old you need to be to see it) that they cannot tell between kinky sex and forceful, violent rape, they SHOULDN’T be having sex in the first place (which should be saved for marriage, anyway!) and we should just eliminate their access to all the above forms of inappropriate content.

    I really think you are grasping at straws as to why this movie is damaging, simultaneously insulting young men’s intelligence and morality. I have brothers, male cousins, and a boyfriend and they’ve never confused sex with rape, because they are decent, honest men. I have plenty of female friends and relatives who have zero interest in seeing this movie or engaging in BDSM. Most men who actually interact with women know that not all women like the same thing and most young men DO know the difference between right and wrong, because of their upbringing, their faith, and their values. A silly movie, that they will likely never see, will not influence that. But the guys you refer to should be waiting for marriage anyway (because that’s how God wants it), and because they clearly aren’t ready for it if they are so confused and impressionable.

  105. Pingback: 50 Shades of Grey – Afterparty | Forgotten Paths

  106. MZT says:

    “I really think you are grasping at straws as to why this movie is damaging”…and I really think that you are grasping at straws in your attempts to defend the societal damage that occurs when females attempt to take the high moral ground while simultaneously rolling about in the sexual dirt.

  107. BJA says:

    You didn’t answer my questions. If boys and young men have 24/7 access to graphic porn, rape porn, violent porn, incest, bestiality, etc, without age restriction, where women act like they like it and want it, isn’t that misleading them and damaging? The OP said 98% of the FSOG audience was female and the remaining 2% doesn’t account for how many gay men went (which I imagine was significant). Doesn’t internet porn access appear to have a more widespread affect on damaging and misleading boys/young men than a movie very few of them actually watched or read the book?

    Also, if we can’t assume that young men can tell the difference between fiction and reality with a silly movie that none of them will see, then they shouldn’t be watching graphic violent movies or tv shows (that also feature rape), playing violent video games (some do feature rape), listening to music that promotes violence or drug abuse, and they shouldn’t be watching pornography (that can promote violence and rape), because they are too impressionable and confused.

    I just don’t understand how you can focus all your attention on a silly 2 hour movie that most young men aren’t even going to see, while completely ignoring all the other damaging activities that men regularly and willingly engage in that actually influence their own behavior. Where is their own accountability? Why are only women expected to take the higher moral ground and men are not?

  108. Novaseeker says:

    BJA —

    When we have Debbie Does Dallas being received as mainstream cinema, like 50SOG, then we can talk. Until then, it’s apples and oranges. The entire point is that 50SOG is mainstreamed and not “seen as porn” — it’s just “mainstream entertainment”. Again, the point is that one sex’s porn is mainstream entertainment and “respectable”, whereas the other sex’s porn is viewed as anything but.

  109. Anonymous Reader says:

    BJA
    Thanks, Shem. Your comment is exactly how I feel. I remember when I was “unpaired” (or whatever you want to call it) feeling so sad, lonely, depressed, and bitter. I never thought those feelings would ever go away.

    Many married men feel pretty much the same way. Doom on them if they interfere with their wives porn habit.

    Returning to the OP, BJA, you really don’t get the point. In modern culture, you are deemed to be the moral superiour of any man, merely for being female. In the church context, you are deemed to be more “spiritual”, closer to God, because you are a woman. The cackling Manhattanite women gleefully viewing 50 SOG gives the lie to that cultural artifact, and since the androsphere tends to deal more in truth than in pretty lies, it will be pointed out.

    As was pointed out upthread, there are a whole lot of places where man-bashing over porn is commonplace – pretty much the entire media-entertainment complex plus every single church in the country. There are almost no places where women’s porn is even mentioned, let alone discussed. This double standard has proven to generate a number of different forms of harm, especially to men.

    That’s why it is relevant. Do you see?

  110. Exfernal says:

    Let’s see…
    http://fightthenewdrug.org/about/

    …branding and graphic design;
    …Master’s Degree in community counseling;
    ????
    ????
    certified snowboard instructor, action sports brand guru, peace theory;
    …business news reporter in Washington;

    Ever heard of the Economist, Wallstreet Journal, New York Times, Newsweek, LA Times, USA Today or the Tonight Show? Yah…well, Jason has had his research published in ALL of them and in many other popular news sites as well. In other words, Jason Carroll is a big deal. He keeps things factual here at FTND and leads in-depth research on the effects of pornography use. Jason is a professor at Brigham Young University and is a Fellow at the Wheatly Institution. In 2014 Jason received the Berscheid-Hatfield Award which is an award given for distinguished scientific achievement. #smartypants’

    A very credible bunch, I say!

  111. Exfernal says:

    Apologies. I responded on a wrong thread. My comment was a response to this one:
    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2015/02/19/custody-of-the-heart/#comment-166208

  112. BJA says:

    Thank you for your clarifications and I sort of see what you’re saying. But hasn’t male vices (like porn and “girlie pictures”) been around longer and become more acceptable? The SI Swimsuit issue is a huge event that happens every year and is highly mainstream, provocative commercials like Carl’s Jr and the Lingerie Bowl and Pro-sports cheerleaders are mainstream with only men in mind. Movies like Van Wilder’s or Show Girls, brands like Playboy and Maxim are very mainstream. Even some video games look sexualized and they are fully accepted. And it’s saddening and painful that women are expected to accept men’s online porn habits, their bachelor parties with strippers, their girlie posters, etc without question. These are long held standards and traditions that women just have to “deal with” if they want a relationship with most men (even Christians). I’ve found it very hard to look the other way in dating when so many men engage in these activities, while I’m holding myself to a higher moral standard and avoiding female vices. It’s very frustrating.

    I don’t think that FSOG is any better, but I do see it as a response to all these overt expressions of male sexuality outside of marriage. Like a, “if you can’t beat ’em, join ’em”. I don’t like that these vices exist for either gender. But if men are firm on continuing to sin with sexual thoughts outside of Godly union, then I don’t see much of a reason why women shouldn’t either. It’s a sad situation for all.

    Also, I always thought men were closer to God than women – isn’t that why most priests are men and women aren’t?

  113. BJA says:

    Also, I wasn’t missing the point in my response at 10:24a. MZT was arguing earlier that FSOG causes young men to be confused. Since most young men aren’t even watching FSOG, it should cause no more confusion than the vices they already engage in regularly (like porn).

  114. Anonymous Reader says:

    But hasn’t male vices (like porn and “girlie pictures”) been around longer and become more acceptable?

    It is easy to pick up a magazine or newspaper or read a site oriented towards women and read yet another “men and porn! Bad! Bad men!” rant. It is trivial to find a church where porn use by men is excoriated. So I don’t get what you are trying to say regarding “more acceptable”, if anything it seems that there is more and more criticism of men for using porn every year.

    50 is a pornographic movie. But since it is oriented towards women, it is not criticized, and women viewing it is celebrated as “you go, grrl!” not condemned. I will be very surprised if any church service next Sunday in the US contains any verbiage about 50. Do you understand the double standard that is clearly playing out, that Dalrock put under a microscope, yet?

    Also, I wasn’t missing the point in my response at 10:24a. MZT was arguing earlier that FSOG causes young men to be confused. Since most young men aren’t even watching FSOG, it should cause no more confusion than the vices they already engage in regularly (like porn).

    Your condescending attitude towards men is duly noted. Let’s consider a 20something man who grew up in the American churches, where he was constantly told how base and evil his sexual desires are, and how pure and holy the nature of women is. He’s been keeping his sexuality under control for years (no woman has any idea what that is like, btw), because he wants to be “good enough” for one of those “daughters of the King”.

    Now he reads that women not only flock to view a form of BDSM porn, but that they like it so much they cheer, whistle, snort, etc. The clash between “purity ring wearing Daughter of the King” and “popcorn chomping, whistling, cheering in a public theater for porn” is likely to confuse him.

    Fortunately the androsphere exists, and young men are learning the true nature of women – y’all ain’t angels, not even close.

    PS: I note that you seem to have skipped over my remark about the lonliness of many married men. I’d like you to comment on that, if you would. Why do you think a married man could be lonely, even in bed?

  115. Anonymous Reader says:

    This link may appear to be off topic and in a strict sense, it is. But in a larger, “nature of women” sense, it is not off topic.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11424884/Three-missing-British-schoolgirls-travel-to-Syria.html

    Maybe Rollo has a word or three to spare…

  116. Minesweeper says:

    @AR, cue IBB – “females have no agency !”

    And he’s probably right, note when these girls and there have been several are stopped going they receive no legal ramifications for trying to join a terrorist state. I doubt a 16yo boy would get off that lightly.

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