Put a ring on it!

So she can take it off.

Until you had enough then you took that ring off
You took that ring off
So tired of the lies and trying, fighting, crying
Took that ring off
Oh, now the fun begins
Dust yourself off and you love again
You found a new man now you shine and you’re fine

For those playing at home, the Beyoncé female empowerment lyrical progression on marriage and rings is:

  1. 2000:  Independent Women “I buy my own diamonds and I buy my own rings”
  2. 2008:  Put a ring on it.
  3. 2013:  The Mrs. Carter World Tour.
  4. 2014:  Ring Off (a divorce empowerment anthem for her mother)

See also:

This entry was posted in Beyoncé, Divorce, Feral Females. Bookmark the permalink.

144 Responses to Put a ring on it!

  1. Men: an object for women’s pleasure and fantasy and nothing more, purely for their amusement and emotional satisfaction and only an inanimate trophy in their story to be obtained and discarded. Ain’t it wonderful when all of feminism’s discourse about men’s sexuality turns out to be projection?

  2. Pingback: Put a ring on it! | Manosphere.com

  3. James K says:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2845505/My-husband-no-match-fantasy-hunk-erotic-novels-ve-ditched-says-bestselling-writer-steamy-fiction.html

    “[Author] Ms Malpas, from Northampton, says: ‘All my fictional men are strong, successful, sophisticated and enigmatic. I guess it’s hard for any living, breathing man to live up to such a fantasy.

    “‘In This Man I created Jesse Ward, whose forceful personality was appealing to me. There is no denying I fell in love with him.

    “‘After all, I created him and I made him the way he is for a reason. Every woman needs some fantasy lover to spice up the dull reality of her real life. I wanted to create my perfect love story.

    “‘But the success of my books and the popularity of my male character led to the breakdown of my marriage. Sadly it was not solid enough to withstand the changes success has brought to my life.’ …

    “And she insists she has no regrets. ‘It’s been crazy, but I’m loving the stronger more liberated me,’ she says.”

  4. Bango Tango says:

    Mmmm to the left, to the left
    Everything you own in the box to the left
    In the closet, that’s my stuff
    Yes, if I bought it, baby, please don’t touch (don’t touch)

    And keep talking that mess, that’s fine
    Could you walk and talk, at the same time?
    And it’s my name that’s on that jag
    So go move your bags, let me call you a cab

    Standing in the front yard, telling me
    How I’m such a fool, talking ’bout
    How I’ll never ever find a man like you u got me twisted

    You must not know ’bout me
    You must not know ’bout me
    I could have another you in a minute
    Matter fact, he’ll be here in a minute (baby)

  5. Bango Tango says:

    Got birkahs?

  6. Anonymous Reader says:

    All Female Imperative, All The Time.

  7. Jen says:

    Well yeah, you are a serial adulterer, you impregnate another woman while married, you lose your wife.

    Tough shit, as they say.

  8. HBKS says:

    Isn’t this her own divorce anthem?

  9. Anne says:

    @Jen
    Especially for the wife.

  10. Boxer says:

    It’s really something: the historical imperative of the female id.

  11. Dalrock, Beyoncé has to sing a song like this. Her demographic (largely) does NOT have a ring on their finger and many of them never will.

  12. MarcusD says:

    Still can’t avoid artificial birth control
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=923458

    Women, the Pill, and Ugly Men
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=923489

    My doctor told me Masturbation is healthy, normal and good.
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=923515

  13. feeriker says:

    Her demographic (largely) does NOT have a ring on their finger and most of them never will.

    FIFY.

  14. MarcusD says:

    Famous Barbie realism
    http://blog.jim.com/economics/famous-barbie-realism/

    Archive of the cache of the Amazon.com page: https://archive.today/dopBZ

    The irony is that the book is actually quite realistic. The reviews feature a lot of the usual feminist assertions (e.g. women are second class citizens in the tech world, etc).

  15. greyghost says:

    Looks like we have the full progression of the world famous western woman. Cock carousel rider, marriage, resingled through divorce, and a heroic single mom to boot. A model for all strong independent women and girls. In fact this model has been incorporated in to the Christian church, family/criminal law, And the culture in general. Bey is making music and money off this. And check out the time line. Eight years of I don’t need no man carousel riding. then the revirtue price increase from gina tingle to commitment (from you) . 6 years later after securing her entitlements and hostages/meal tickets/threat points resingled and gina tingles are it.
    Stay turned for when the last meal ticket leaves the nest. Give it 12 to 15 years.

  16. Women are so full of shit. They’ve priced themselves out of the market and unattractive men like myself don’t even consider the most attractive women to be worth the chase. Fuck em all.

  17. SirThermite says:

    Good catch, Dalrock. She’ll never be married to any husband as much as she’s married to the hamster, and to the adoration of her fans who want their hamsters fed too.

    The marriage fraud aspect reminds me of this headline on Yahoo’s homepage yesterday morning
    “There’s A Reason Why Women With Long Hair Cut It All Off After Their Wedding Day”
    http://yhoo.it/1vcnimO Gotta love the rationalizing by some of commentators saying “It’s just hair, it doesn’t matter” when the reality is that most women care immensely about their hair. The sad fact is that many care much more about how they look to themselves on their wedding day than they do about how they look to their husbands after getting the poor saps to sign the contract.

  18. Opus says:

    From Wiki:

    “She has received co-writing credits for most of the songs” from which I deduce she is not the writer of the songs. She has “also received co-producing credits… however she does not formulate beats herself” from which I deduce she is devoid of A and R capabilities. If, however, I am mistaken as to this then I offer Mrs Carter my sincere apologies but on the basis of the above lyrics suggest that so far as verse is concerned she should stick to the day-job (warbling and wobbling) – and sorry to hear that her Mother is having a hard time.

  19. earl says:

    2017: Comes out as a lesbian….or declares love of cats.

  20. Anonymous says:

    (Oops, meant to put this one here.)

    Off-topic, but not much… modern Feminism divorce porn addiction horror story:

    “My husband was no match for the fantasy hunk in my erotic novels… so I’ve ditched him, says bestselling writer of steamy fiction,” by Angella Johnson and Amy Oliver, The Daily Mail (UK), 22 Nov 2014

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2845505/My-husband-no-match-fantasy-hunk-erotic-novels-ve-ditched-says-bestselling-writer-steamy-fiction.html

    You go girl! (Putting the “fun” in dysfunctional, eh?) Shows how sick Britain’s getting, too– apparently, she’s got custody. ‘Gina tingles make right, no matter that it’s about pron.

  21. Anonymous says:

    P.S. Speaking of divorce now… a guy at where I work (not the same location, mind you) got hit with a surprise divorce + wife taking the kids. (Community property state… that’ll be the house and half his income too.) He shot himself in his office at work. (Now she’ll also get no insurance payout or alimony and likely be unable to afford the mortgage on that nice house, not to mention how this hurt and will hurt the kids, …smooth move all around, babe.) Tell me how empowering divorce is, Beyoncé.

  22. feeriker says:

    2017: Comes out as a lesbian

    That does seem to be an inceasingly popular “final” stage of the process (“GLAD,” or, “Going Lesbian After Divorce.” Many of them aren’t even waiting for the divorce).

    Also, I’ve heard it speculated among Beeyotchce afficianados (yes, there are, inexplicably, such people, a horrifying number of them middle-aged black women) that her marriage to Jay-Z was the result of matchmaking mechanations by her mother, who apparently doesn’t exactly have her own marital house in order. If I were Jay-Z, and if were still trying to retain any of my rapper “street cred,” I don’t think I’d be exactly elated at hearing my wife sing “I-don’t-need-no-man”/strong-empowered-sistah bullshit, no matter how profitable it is. One really wonders how much longer Mistah Carter intends to put up with that (especially following the Solange Incident, in which Beeyotchce certainly didn’t rush to his defense and which also serves as a valuable window into how dysfunctional the Knowles family really is).

  23. Too good not to share:

  24. You forgot one…

    2004: Jiggles it on a club stage in her underwear and hooks up with famous rapper Usher , while singing that she’s a “Naughty Girl.”

  25. Spacetraveller says:

    Well, it makes sense!
    Recreational sex followed by recreational marriage followed by recreational divorce (and then as others have suggested, recreational ‘lesbianism’).
    People like Beyonce Knowles (and let’s face it, most pop stars) have done very well out of the irreverence of pop culture.

    But these are the very same people who will complain (when they are no longer the ‘it’ people on the scene), that they were being ‘objectified’ all along.
    For which they now want our sympathy.

    Their biggest fault is that they are glamourising wrongdoing (which divorce is) and this really hurts whole families, the very bedrock of society.
    All for money…

    Bypass them. Don’t listen to their filthy music. Make them irrelevant.
    That’s the only way to clean up the environment for the young.

  26. Boxer says:

    I’m sure this will be taken as more evidence that I’m a cold hearted and unsympathetic bastard, but I don’t care…

    P.S. Speaking of divorce now… a guy at where I work (not the same location, mind you) got hit with a surprise divorce + wife taking the kids. (Community property state… that’ll be the house and half his income too.) He shot himself in his office at work. (Now she’ll also get no insurance payout or alimony and likely be unable to afford the mortgage on that nice house, not to mention how this hurt and will hurt the kids, …smooth move all around, babe.) Tell me how empowering divorce is, Beyoncé.

    Men need to quit doing this crap. Not just Thomas James Ball types, but also crap like this:

    http://articles.courant.com/2014-09-02/news/hc-threat-against-judge-0901-20140831_1_cromwell-man-charged-search-warrant-divorce-case

    While I have some sympathy for men like the one above, it ought to be noted that his violence is a failure to fight the divorce industry, and not some sort of veiled victory.

    The system now in place does not care if you kill yourself or others. In fact, they’ll spin your violence as justification for their own insane excesses. Go ahead and threaten the judge… They’ll use it as an excuse to screw the next guy that much harder.

    If you get the surprise divorce notice, the best thing you can do is represent yourself in court (refuse to give the lawyers their due) while planning to get the heck out of the country as rapidly as possible, if/when things go bad. Other nations (Ireland, Germany, Israel, India, China, Spain) have “law of return” exceptions to their immigration laws, for example. Did your grandfather grow up in some other place? That’s an excellent opportunity to move some of those “cash and prizes” there, as rapidly as possible, while you get your permission to work or passport sorted. Princess might end up getting them wherever you stash them, but it will be a lot more difficult. Your divorce will also be a lot less “empowering” when you start working someplace where US family courts can’t simply attach your wages.

    You can also join the millions of other people who simply walk across one of our large, unguarded international borders to a new life. I went to Mexico City once, and found as many blond, English speaking British dudes as I’d expect to see in London. Norteamericanos are finding Costa Rica fairly welcoming. It has large populations of both blonde white people and dark skinned black people who look just like you probably do. Had the dead dope just took a ferry, he could be in Bahamas right now, where the cost of living is cheap, everyone speaks English and the weather very nice.

    Even if you decide to stay in the USA, you can hide out, work the grey market economy, and keep a low profile. There are much bigger fish to fry than some dude who owes back support. I suspect my own mechanic is in this category.

    Most importantly, that man’s kids will have someone to hang out with when they finally hit adulthood. If you kill yourself, you are giving your ex-wife permission to badmouth you for the rest of your kids lives, with no ability to tell your side of things. That ought to be reason enough to resist the lunacy that always happens in a contemporary divorce.

    Boxer

  27. JF says:

    Put a sock in it
    You can’t take out
    Then put a ring on it
    You can’t take off
    Take your witchcraft rebellion
    Stick it where the sun don’t shine
    You do all those things, darlin
    And then you can be mine

  28. earl says:

    “The system now in place does not care if you kill yourself or others. In fact, they’ll spin your violence as justification for their own insane excesses. Go ahead and threaten the judge… They’ll use it as an excuse to screw the next guy that much harder.”

    Emotions are high and justifiably so…that’s why the state takes advantage of them.

  29. Farm Boy says:

    He shot himself in his office at work.

    I wonder if the kids will realize what the true situation was as they grow to adulthood. I wonder if the views will be different between the boys and girls.

  30. greyghost says:

    Surprise divorces most likely only come to beta nice guys and the last thing a guy subject to a surprise divorce is handle his business. His most likely response is why and what can I do to change your mind. When a man gets the red pill in an overdose fashion death is in the air. That is why it is always good to troll red pills in the comments of all articles and reviews.
    Sad story there Boxer that is why I advocate MGTOW/Family man surrogacy. Marriage is for fags and men on a death wish

  31. fringed says:

    Rollo,

    Good one; thank you!

  32. random stuff says:

    Who knew? Astonishing 50 per cent of people wish they had never ended their marriage. A study found 54 per cent experienced second thoughts. Some realised they missed or still loved their ex-partner. 42 per cent had considered giving their relationship another go.

  33. Dave says:

    Sorry, posted under a different account by mistake:
    href=”http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/500492/Most-divorcees-regret-marriage-break-up”>Who knew? Astonishing 50 per cent of people wish they had never ended their marriage. A study found 54 per cent experienced second thoughts. Some realised they missed or still loved their ex-partner. 42 per cent had considered giving their relationship another go.

  34. Gunner Q says:

    Farm Boy @ 2:36 pm:
    “I wonder if the kids will realize what the true situation was as they grow to adulthood.”

    Along with open hypergamy these days is open hatred of women by young men. I’ve heard that from several sources. I wonder if rappers will start doing songs about grudge sex?

    It’s gonna be ugly in a few years. Sadly, I can’t imagine anywhere in the world will be good after America goes down.

  35. greyghost says:
    November 23, 2014 at 4:30 pm
    “…Marriage is for fags and men on a death wish.”

    Thanks for the insight,greyghost. Do you mind if I change it a little and use it?

    “MGTOW: because marriage is for men with a Death Wish.”

  36. greyghost says:

    Gunner Q
    Young men have no delusions of love for women. When I speak of single men using surrogates I receive a lot of comments about the “kids need both parents” the boys in middle and high school now have no such delusion. They know. They are taught the blue pill lie but know it is a lie. They have no delusions of the never hit a girl. A girl hits them they will stomp her with out guilt. Other men record women getting their ass kicked rather than intervene. (I think one of the fem chicks made an article about feminist men saying equality meant a woman got her ass kicked for using violence) The next few years are going to be interesting. because the word is getting out via the internet . Type in MGTOW on Youtube and see the huge number of videos. Empathy for females in general is going away.

  37. Spike says:

    Type in “Beyonce Satanism” on You Tube and see what you get. She will have done a deal with the devil to get to where she is, and the devil is already getting his due: she has to share her husband with others. Should anyone NOT believe me on this issue, please check out husband Jay Z, wearing the motto of notorious satanist Aleister Crowley on his hoodie:

    http://s106.photobucket.com/user/ripdajackerjr/media/CMCapture23-4.jpg.html

  38. enrique432 says:

    Cat-calling harasses women….until the man get’s stabbed over it.

    http://news.yahoo.com/man-pays-horrific-price-defending-girlfriend-catcaller-213217547.html

    I am so sure she will work hard her whole life to support this man who took nine stab wounds for her, that she will “woman up” and that perhaps, Little Miss Bitchface that did the whole “ten hours walkin-around-fake lonely-instead-of-at-work in NYC” can come up with the money from her donations. Come on folks, let’s all “human up” to protect these men protecting these poor women who have boyfriends who get nearly stabbed to death.

  39. greyghost says:

    enrique432
    That guy was a straight up idiot. The chick was a girlfriend. She most likely wearing yoga pants with the out line of her pussy pressed through. She was just a girlfriend. And within a couple months the relationship will have ended. Or my favorite “ever since he got into that fight he has changed and we grew apart. And then our relationship just ended”

  40. feeriker says:

    Along with open hypergamy these days is open hatred of women by young men. I’ve heard that from several sources. I wonder if rappers will start doing songs about grudge sex?

    I recall posting here a few months back about a young millennial colleague of mine who is the poster child for this. Raised by a militant single mother at whose tongue he suffered emotional abuse (and apparently also at whose hands he suffered physical abuse), he holds women –ALL women, apparently– in indescribable contempt. He expresses this to women by being the most malicious PUA he can be, and is, I have it on good authority from mutual acquaintances, a very successful one who has degraded and emotionally crippled no small number of young women before dumping them in the most nuclear and humiliating way possible.

    Last time I saw this young man (nearly a year ago; we live and work in different parts of the country), I talked at length with him about how this approach is destroying him more than the targets of his rage. Perhaps I’m the only older male who ever shared red pill wisdom with him and that’s why chose to open up to me (the most chillingly disturbing thing I heard from him was that nothing would make him happier than to hear of the suicide of some former conquest). I let him know in no uncertain terms that he needed to get help for his anger and “mother issues” ASAP. But at the same time I wondered to myself what kind of help he could get from any professional source that wasn’t structurally anti-male, that would treat him with not-so-subtle condescension at best or contemptuously and like a criminal at worst.

    While my young colleague is an extreme example, he’s not unique. More and more of him are being minted all the time. Short of catastrophe or a miracle to turn things around, his sort will soon be all-pervasive.

    I weep for our society’s future.

  41. Robin Munn says:

    @Jen –

    Well yeah, you are a serial adulterer, you impregnate another woman while married, you lose your wife.

    Tough shit, as they say.

    So you believe that Hilary Clinton should have divorced Bill a long time ago? He never got any of his adultery partners pregnant (or if it happened, it was successfully covered up), but the serial adultery is the worse of the two anyway.

  42. greyghost says:

    feeriker
    I think that is a great sign of progress. Nothing wrong with men having that attitude. Very healthy for a civilized society.
    A civilized society should always have a marriage to an honest beta male be the best option. A whole generation or two of fellas like your friend will make that a true statement.

  43. Boxer says:

    Dear TFH:

    Wait….. please elaborate further. Do you have a link?

    https://www.indianembassy.org/pages.php?id=21

    That took me two seconds to find, with the help of google. It’s the first step for a “person of Indian origin” to getting permission to remain and work in India.

    Note that with a country like India, it probably wouldn’t be too hard for a regular White or Black dude to get a work visa. India has a really horrid reputation (google “India garbage” for more) but it’s a huge country and there are pockets of it that are, by all accounts, quite nice. India is one of the few “developing” countries which is, actually, developing; and a well educated man would probably find it a livable place.

    For now, that is. Should India “develop” further, the odds are that the feminists will ruin it, too.

    Boxer

  44. Pingback: Christian Girl Instagram | Patriactionary

  45. Boxer says:

    Dear TFH:

    If done after the subpoena, then that is fraudulent conveyance. If done before, it may work…

    Oh, I know about that, but I was wondering if US divorce laws could be superceded by the ‘escape hatch’ for assets for someone with 2-generation-removed ancestry from any of the countries you mentioned. My understanding is that a ‘family court’ would require the ‘community’ to be reimbursed for any assets that were moved out, once income and expenditures are tallied up and the net savings is less.

    Well, I’m addressing the fellas who are contemplating a cranial perforation, rather than doing a five minute internet search, which will often allow such unfortunate chaps to beat their feet to a better place.

    Just to clarify, I’m not a divorce or tax attorney, and TFH is probably right about the potential for legal problems. I’m assuming that a dude who has just been served with divorce papers, and is on the brink of suicide, will consider legal hassles over moving assets to be an inconsequential concern in the grand scheme of things.

    http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2012/07/01/deadbeat_dad_flees_to_philippines_leaving_four_kids_without_support.html

    The crown and its toadies are hopping mad at guys like this one here. Tough beans. There ain’t shit they can do to him. Most importantly, he’s alive and available for the day that those kids get sick of their mother’s shit (it’ll happen, trust me) and seek him out.

    Best, Boxer

  46. JDG says:

    Regarding the deadbeat dad divorce rape dodger, here is what what appears to be a snippet of his parting shot from the link:

    “The result of the legal instrument which you recently designed and implemented is that there is no possibility of a comfortable life or a (secure) retirement for me in Canada at all… Therefore I have left the country to seek greener pastures elsewhere, and will never return. Well done Einstein.”
    “Good luck and goodbye.”

    It sucks for the kids. It would have been better for the kids if he could have taken them with him.

  47. JF says:

    This is ice-cold Machiavellian, but nevertheless valid:
    It’s not that divorce-raped husbands/fathers are doing something illogical by blowing their brains out or stringing themselves up. They may or may not be losing their soul, but if they are atheist, then they may be doing something completely logical according to their worldview. But even here the main problem is HOW they are killing themselves. They are foolishly doing it in unobserved ISOLATION.
    Take a lesson from the self-immolating
    buddhist monks who were suffering religious persecution under Roman Catholic dictator Diem (source: VIETNAM, WHY DID WE GO? by Avro Manhattan and others) in 1960s Vietnam: You want to make a statement?—A calculated, graphic, televised suicide of yourself will raise societal, and global, consciousness of a mass persecution a helluva lot better than a useless suicide in isolation.
    If you are gonna off yourself, you may as well do it right. Say what you want about those buddhist monks, but they not only had balls, they also knew how to make an unforgettable exit.
    Only sure problem here are the statistics that show that the children are then more likely to commit suey later on in their lives. But hey, again, if you’re an atheist, what’s the big deal?

  48. Anonymous says:

    http://baylyblog.com/blog/2014/11/when-you-gonna-wake-and-strengthen-things-remain

    A woman in the “full quiver” movement becomes an apostate and then creatively defines abuse, and divorces her husband.

    “I did file for divorce and rescue myself and my kids from the tyranny of patriarchy. But for me, the primary break up was with Jesus. You see, being in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is a set up for dysfunctional game-playing and crazy-making head trips. According to Christianity, Jesus subjected himself to torture and death, so that we could have the “free gift” of eternal life … and by “free,” he means, it’s only going to cost you everything you have and everything you are.

    When the very definition of perfect love is sacrificing your children and martyring yourself, there is no place for emotionally healthy concepts like boundaries, consent, equality, and mutuality. I could not say that my husband’s patriarchal behavior was abusive so long as I was committed to a relationship with “The Big Guy” who exemplifies the abusive bully, and who commands his followers to imitate His very warped and twisted idea of “love.” “

  49. Boxer says:

    Take a lesson from the self-immolating
    buddhist monks who were suffering religious persecution under Roman Catholic dictator Diem (source: VIETNAM, WHY DID WE GO? by Avro Manhattan and others) in 1960s Vietnam: You want to make a statement?—A calculated, graphic, televised suicide of yourself will raise societal, and global, consciousness of a mass persecution a helluva lot better than a useless suicide in isolation.

    Thomas James Ball did that. People use his suicide to catalyze more domestic violence laws, and spread the meme that “all men are insanely violent headcases” by his example.

    Again, the system doesn’t care if you kill yourself. It doesn’t care if you kill other people, either (whoever they are, they can be replaced by the system).

    But hey, again, if you’re an atheist, what’s the big deal?

    That’s an idiotic thing to write. Obviously, atheist fathers have kids, and those kids need their father.

    Having a dad in Mumbai, who is available on the internet for chats, and who will be around when mom’s antics exceed the threshold of polite tolerance… That’s far better than having memories of dad before he splattered his brains. In the mean time, such a dude can bang hot Indian women, decorate a nice highrise apartment, learn Sanskrit, sleep late on Saturdays, and eat Lamb Vindaloo. Life is what you make it.

    Boxer

  50. JF says:

    @Boxer
    “But hey, again, if you’re an atheist, what’s the big deal?”–JF

    That’s an idiotic thing to write. Obviously, atheist fathers have kids, and those kids need their father.–Boxer

    Sorry, Boxer, but it’s not idiotic at all. Think deeper. It’s the logical outcome of Darwinian philosophy. You could also read the words and works of 20th century Christian philosophers like CS Lewis and Francis Schaeffer. They rightfully pointed out that, if a man is a philosophical materialist and believed everything happened by chance, then our very notion of Right vs. Wrong, our collective moral compass, also arose by pure chance. Now, within such an all-chance, no-design worldview, who’s to say that suicide is wrong? For that matter, who’s to say that ANYyhing is wrong, given a purely atheistic, naturalistic worldview? Everything came about by CHANCE, right??
    Good vs Bad is the realm of theology. An atheist, such as, say, a Darwinist, for example, is on wholly alien turf whenever he discusses such things.

  51. Exfernal says:

    ‘Good vs Bad’ is the realm of ethics. Secular or religious ethics.

    Even if something arose through chance (not ‘pure’ chance, though,), it’s not ‘all the same’. ‘Futile’ still belongs to ‘bad’.

  52. greyghost says:

    Anonymous
    She is just a helper you don’t need her. And her attitude is normal for a woman to have. MGTOW/family man. She is not needed

  53. Tam the Bam says:

    Atheist or not, only an intolerable woman narcissist and drama queen would wish to subject their children to a lifetime of watching daddy frizzle away on the pavement, or twitch and gush in an endless grainy TV/Youtube/iPlayer “Great Video Moments” series. All the other kids chortling away at it in class, gathered round an iThing? Not cool.

    That’s the whole point of monks. They don’t have kids (or didn’t orter).
    The decision to keep it relatively private is quite the man’s death, as is trying to keep the kids away from it. Only women fear dying alone.

    (Well personally I’m supposed to die tripping up in the heaped and tangled guts of a great herd of my enemies, with a broadsword in my hand, but then it’s mi cultcha, innit. I may well attempt to dodge that one).

  54. Tam the Bam says:

    ” .. a dude can bang hot Indian women, decorate a nice highrise apartment, learn Sanskrit, sleep late on Saturdays, and eat Lamb Vindaloo .. “
    Dunno ’bout that, moving to England and signing on the dole isn’t everybody’s idea of la dolce vita

  55. greyghost says:

    JF
    You have a point it is not about fixing the system it is about a man doing as he chooses. No man owes this misandrous society anything. Far better a man avoid being in the position in the first place. Gandarusa, MGTOW, Red Pill understanding. Most of the suicide /murder/violence issues come from the emotions of the betrayal of the blue pill. The sad thing is the harder the man works to please his wife the harder every thing from the church to the court house and public ridicule when she decides to leave. There is at no level any requirement for a woman or church, law or the culture in general to give a damn about any thing a man does for her his children or society as a whole. And guess what, they don’t. That dose of reality has to be learned over time, to get dropped on you all at once is the thing of murder/suicides.

  56. http://baylyblog.com/blog/2014/11/when-you-gonna-wake-and-strengthen-things-remain

    A woman in the “full quiver” movement becomes an apostate and then creatively defines abuse, and divorces her husband.

    “I did file for divorce and rescue myself and my kids from the tyranny of patriarchy. But for me, the primary break up was with Jesus. You see, being in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is a set up for dysfunctional game-playing and crazy-making head trips. According to Christianity, Jesus subjected himself to torture and death, so that we could have the “free gift” of eternal life … and by “free,” he means, it’s only going to cost you everything you have and everything you are.

    When the very definition of perfect love is sacrificing your children and martyring yourself, there is no place for emotionally healthy concepts like boundaries, consent, equality, and mutuality. I could not say that my husband’s patriarchal behavior was abusive so long as I was committed to a relationship with “The Big Guy” who exemplifies the abusive bully, and who commands his followers to imitate His very warped and twisted idea of “love.”

    This could be Cane, Dalrock or any man professing to have found out how to live in marriage 2.0. Marriage is dead. There is no such thing as marriage.

  57. cynthia says:

    According to Christianity, Jesus subjected himself to torture and death, so that we could have the “free gift” of eternal life … and by “free,” he means, it’s only going to cost you everything you have and everything you are.

    I don’t often comment on things here, but as a Catholic, I often look around at the younger Christian denominations in this country and wonder what in the hell they’re teaching their congregations. Jesus (and Christianity in general) calls us to be better than our base instincts, but that’s hardly the sacrifice of “everything you are” – it should be seen as the gift that it is, not a burden.

  58. Opus says:

    Back to Mrs Carter: I am bemused that so many female singers, who clearly are devoid of either song-writing ability or motivation are passed off as song-writers – a form of affirmative action, as if singing the song is not itself sufficient authenticity. It may be that the seam is run-dry for it seems that even amongst men the level of innovation in song-writing is not what it was in the mid-to-late Twentieth Century. Simply: Men have moved on to other pastures – Gaming, software? – wherein to compete and test themselves, leaving women as always to catch up.

    It reminds me of something that was prevalent in Europe in the late Eighteenth Century, namely some Nobleman or otherwise wealthy individual passing-off as his own original composition a Mass-setting commissioned by him from a real composer – a form of venerated piety? How these Masses could ever have been successfully foisted on the gullible – any more than the Emperor’s latest suit – is beyond me, especially when (as with one certain unfinished Requiem Mass) the fingerprints of Wolfgang Amadeus were all over it.

  59. earl says:

    ‘But for me, the primary break up was with Jesus. You see, being in a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is a set up for dysfunctional game-playing and crazy-making head trips.’

    I wish they would define what a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is.

    ‘According to Christianity, Jesus subjected himself to torture and death, so that we could have the “free gift” of eternal life … and by “free,” he means, it’s only going to cost you everything you have and everything you are.’

    That’s a good thing. Who we are and what we have pale in comparison to Him. Some people don’t get that.

  60. Scott says:

    “But at the same time I wondered to myself what kind of help he could get from any professional source that wasn’t structurally anti-male, that would treat him with not-so-subtle condescension at best or contemptuously and like a criminal at worst.”

    I think I found my therapy niche.

  61. Boxer says:

    Sorry, Boxer, but it’s not idiotic at all. Think deeper. It’s the logical outcome of Darwinian philosophy. You could also read the words and works of 20th century Christian philosophers like CS Lewis and Francis Schaeffer. They rightfully pointed out that, if a man is a philosophical materialist and believed everything happened by chance, then our very notion of Right vs. Wrong, our collective moral compass, also arose by pure chance. Now, within such an all-chance, no-design worldview, who’s to say that suicide is wrong? For that matter, who’s to say that ANYyhing is wrong, given a purely atheistic, naturalistic worldview? Everything came about by CHANCE, right??
    Good vs Bad is the realm of theology. An atheist, such as, say, a Darwinist, for example, is on wholly alien turf whenever he discusses such things.

    tl;dr… before Christianity was invented, no one ever thought about good and evil, right and wrong.

    That’s an interesting theory.

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-ethics/

    Regards,

    Boxer

  62. Boxer says:

    Dear Earl:

    I wish they would define what a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is.

    I’m still waiting for one of these nutters to show me the verse in King James Version, where the Jesus character says something like “Behold, I want to be your best friend… I want to hold your hand…” (O, wait, that was an old Beatles song, but anyway).

    There are the “personal relationship” Christians, who want to use Jesus as their imaginary best pal, and then there are the disciplined Christians who use Jesus’ teachings to lead a more interesting life. I dig the Christians of the second type, and don’t take those of the first type too seriously.

    Boxer

  63. Opus says:

    Interviewer: ‘Is Ringo the best drummer in the world?’
    Paul : ‘He’s not even the best drummer in the Beatles’.

  64. Thomas says:

    Women often begin hiding money secretly once they decide to announce a divorce. Men would be wise to beat them to the punch. Open foreign bank accounts before you even marry. Stash money away on a regular basis. Keep your passport ready.

    It’s not romantic to hide money before marriage, essentially preparing for a divorce before you’ve even cut the wedding cake. But as others have said, marriage as a contract is dead.

    I’m sure Lifetime TV movies depict men who hide money as untrustworthy scoundrels, while women hiding money are empowering themselves by acting in self-defense.

  65. Looking Glass says:

    @Opus:

    Song writing & production credits are about Radio Money. The performer gets very little from all of the radio air-play. The writers get the money. This is the lesson from 1950s Mo-Town, where most of the performers made the record producers millions.

    Whatever credibility it gives, it’s fully about the money.

  66. Looking Glass says:

    @Thomas:

    Just keep it under 10k, or it’s required to be reported to the US Government. Which also makes it really hard to open a foreign bank account now. (This was all in the claim to prevent people hiding from taxes; it was really about trapping US Citizens in the US tax system.)

  67. feeriker says:

    I don’t often comment on things here, but as a Catholic, I often look around at the younger Christian denominations in this country and wonder what in the hell they’re teaching their congregations.

    The short answer is: nothing that’s scripturally based. Then again, when your “Bible studies” consist almost entirely of group readings of the churchian equivalents of the latest Oprah Book-of-the-Month Club offerings, it’s pretty difficult to be seriously surprised that nobody has the vaguest clue what the Bible itself has to say. To people weaned on pseudo-Christian pop-culture pablum, even the clearest rendering in the vernacular of Scripture comes across about as clearly as the messages etched on ancient Babylonian cuneiform.

  68. earl says:

    ‘I’m still waiting for one of these nutters to show me the verse in King James Version, where the Jesus character says something like “Behold, I want to be your best friend… I want to hold your hand…” (O, wait, that was an old Beatles song, but anyway).’

    Yeah who would have thought reading the Gospels might be a good place to start developing a personal relationship with Jesus. He pretty much has everything he is about in there.

    ‘There are the “personal relationship” Christians, who want to use Jesus as their imaginary best pal’

    Oh yes…Depeche Mode made a song about it.

  69. feeriker says:

    Interviewer: ‘Is Ringo the best drummer in the world?’
    Paul : ‘He’s not even the best drummer in the Beatles’.

    ((ROTFLMAOing, with tears streaming down my face))

    Thanks, Opus! I’d forgotten about that one (and how oh-so-true). Just the injection of humor I need on a Monday!

  70. BradA says:

    A personal action with Jesus is definitely required.

    [Rom 10:9-10 NKJV] 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    Some may have perverted this to mean a Jesus that can be twisted to our whims, but that doesn’t negate the core truth that Christianity is founded on a personal decision to follow Him. You don’t get it from your parents, culture or anything else. It is solely based on your action.

    I don’t recall much sound doctrine in the RCC either. A fair amount of non-Scriptural junk too. Though I suppose some of that depends on your view of the infallibility of a man and whether the Scriptures are reliable by themselves.

    Modern churches reflect modern society. A rare few may help change it for the better, but given that they have people in them who must live in the culture, it is unlikely most will stray a huge amount from the culture. That is just a fact of life in almost any area.

  71. Anonymous age 72 says:

    I am reminded of an afternoon TV show I saw many years ago. I am guessing it was Gerardo or Maury, and I assume I was home sick or with a sick kid.

    Whoever it was, he had on a man who had jumped off a bridge out of depression. And, miraculously survived.

    A woman in the audience asked him, “Before you jumped, did you make financial provisions for your wife and kids?”

    He said, “No.” Imagine this stupid woman, a man is so depressed he wants to jump off a bridge, and all she cares about it that he waited to first make sure his family was going to be rich.

    The host went on to another question, but the control crew kept the camera on ths idiot’s face. She looked totally disgusted and pissed off that he dared kill himself before taking care of his family forever.

    Yes, that is exactly the status of men in the USA. You don’t matter. Your feelings don’t matter. Your suffering doesn’t matter. All that matters is that you take care of an evil woman and her kids.

    Some men on this blog are no better.

    No matter how much pain you have, every waking moment and there aren’t many sleeping moments, you can’t whack yourself. No, sirree!! You gotta’ stay and fight like I, the great and wonderful me, do. What fighting have I done? Wait a minute, I seem to have lost the sealed envelope with the long list of my public activism. Now, where did that thing go?

    But, doesn’t typing anonymously on the Internet count?

    Or, ditto for anyone who concludes (correctly) that it is a waste of time to repeat the same nonsense that hasn’t worked in 45 year, with the same Bravo Sierra spread by the same do-nothing studly heroes, and decides to Get The Hell Out.

    My blubbery SIL told me I was a coward for leaving the USA. I gotta’ stay and fight like he does.

    So, what fighting does he do? Well, he makes big money on the government trough as an FAA radar tech. He spends lots of time guzzling pizza ordered to his door. Or, maybe drives to pick up Chinese. And, once, just once, he want to Washington, D.C. and huddled in the middle of 100,000 people protesting something. And, imagines himself like Caspar Milquetoast, as some sort of brave activist taking on the world single-handedly.

    I mustn’t forget, he also swaggers up and down on Sunday in church, as one of the truly important Baptist Churchian deacons.

    The analogy, based on my own generation, is the man who spends his 13 months in Viet Nam, on deep patrol in the bush. When his time is up, he goes to the airport to be transported back to the States (to be spat upon by AW, of course.)

    A new guy comes in on the plane which will take him upon his return. The new guys says “Hey, where do you think you are going? I, the great and wonderful me, am here now. You can’t leave. That would be cowardice! You gotta’ stay and fight!”

    With all this tough talk, the status of men is still steadily deteriorating. The only advancement in men’s status is the men who have chosen to expat or inpat (more or less MGTOW, that is drop out of the slavery system as much as possible.) That has a lot of people in power scared shitless. Though of course, they don’t admit it, since that would encourage the anti-slavery movement.

    This is a Kung-Fu thing. Passive resistance works.

    The more men who GTHO, or MGTOW, the more power men have. And, in any case, each man who does not let himself be trapped into the marriage/divorce slavery bit the more men aren’t harmed by it.

  72. Scott says:

    “I don’t recall much sound doctrine in the RCC either.”

    This is why Orthodoxy or at least Eastern Right Catholic is the closest thing you will get to unchanging doctrine right now. The last ecumenical council that all of Orthodoxy agrees on was 1300 years ago.

  73. Scott says:

    Eastern “rite.” Pardon me.

  74. Anonymous age 72 says:

    So, I am naive. Who was the best drummer in the Beatles?

  75. HawkandRock says:

    @feministhater

    All I can say is thank goodness that woman was able to rescue herself and her children from the patriarchy. She is so strong and courageous. There is nothing that she (and the unlimited power of the state) won’t be able to accomplish. Sure the ex husband may suffer but is there anyone more deserving of it?

    Christ is a crazy tyrant and his followers are violent and dangerous but there is no limit to the love the state has for us. It is evident everywhere. It is our true salvation. Our true salvation.

    Her children will be eternally grateful to her for what she has done for them.

  76. earl says:

    ‘I don’t recall much sound doctrine in the RCC either. A fair amount of non-Scriptural junk too. Though I suppose some of that depends on your view of the infallibility of a man and whether the Scriptures are reliable by themselves.’

    It’s Scripture, Apostolic Tradition and the Magisterium.

    http://www.catholic.com/tracts/apostolic-tradition
    http://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/tradition-and-living-magisterium

  77. feeriker says:

    A woman in the audience asked him, “Before you jumped, did you make financial provisions for your wife and kids?”

    He said, “No.” Imagine this stupid woman, a man is so depressed he wants to jump off a bridge, and all she cares about it that he waited to first make sure his family was going to be rich.

    In the approximately half a dozen times in my adult life that I’ve informed a woman (or a collective of women) of the suicide of a man, one that I’ve either known/been acquainted with personally or who was some sort of celebrity, I don’t recall ever once hearing a response other than some variation of “what a cowardly loser!” or “how dare he do that to his family!”

    Sadly, the responses from most men haven’t been any different.

  78. tweell says:

    Andy White was the best drummer in the Beatles, IMHO.

  79. Anonymous age 72 says:

    HawkandRock says:
    November 24, 2014 at 10:33 am

    @feministhater

    >>All I can say is thank goodness that woman was able to rescue herself and her children from the patriarchy. She is so strong and courageous. There is nothing that she (and the unlimited power of the state) won’t be able to accomplish. Sure the ex husband may suffer but is there anyone more deserving of it?

    >>Christ is a crazy tyrant and his followers are violent and dangerous but there is no limit to the love the state has for us. It is evident everywhere. It is our true salvation. Our true salvation.

    >>Her children will be eternally grateful to her for what she has done for them.

    Love it!!!!!

  80. Anonymous age 72 says:

    tweell says:
    November 24, 2014 at 10:54 am

    >>Andy White was the best drummer in the Beatles, IMHO.

    Thanks. I had no idea at all.

  81. earl says:

    A woman divorcing because of her feelings is as much a cowardly act as a man who commits suicide because of his feelings.

  82. Spacetraveller says:

    Earl,

    “A woman divorcing because of her feelings is as much a cowardly act as a man who commits suicide because of his feelings.”

    Hm. I see your logic with this one, Earl. But if I may, could I just say that the former is much worse than the latter because one does not make promises to live out life until natural death, when one is born. A woman (or man) choosing to divorce is breaking a promise to see the marriage through until death.

    But again, I see your line of argument. Suicide is also a sin, a mortal sin, as we Catholics believe. So I see why you equate these two sins.

  83. feeriker says:

    Modern churches reflect modern society. A rare few may help change it for the better, but given that they have people in them who must live in the culture, it is unlikely most will stray a huge amount from the culture. That is just a fact of life in almost any area.

    And recitation of this “fact,” especially the bolded part, is what churchians reflexively and instinctively use to grant absolution upon themselves whenever someone brings up the fact that they impart a flavor more akin to that of a sandy beach than a salt mine.

  84. Anonymous age 72 says: So, I am naive. Who was the best drummer in the Beatles?

    Paul.

    Although that’s like saying “gold is more valuable than silver.” Ringo still rocked the casbah, but Paul was the kind of guy who could just pick up a random instrument he’d never played before and 15 minutes later be riffing a catchy tune on it.

  85. earl says:

    Yeah I equate the two sins that way.

    But as far as which results in more destruction…divorce is worse. Since suicide can be one of the unintended consequences.

  86. Anonymous age 72 says:

    feeriker says:
    November 24, 2014 at 10:51 am

    (comment about the response of both men and women to a man who commits suicide.)

    There has been some discussion that one cannot be MGTOW and be married.

    Any man who is married and doesn’t understand he is on his own (i.e. – GHOW) is pretty much deluded.

    There are exceptions, but to find one, you would not only have to carry a lamp throughout the night, but drag along a fifty gallon drum of kerosene.

    Most men are only in their family because they give almost everything they earn to that family and expect little or nothing in return. The minute you want something in return, you are the Bad Guy.

    Lose your job? Bad Guy. And, even if she doesn’t divorce him, you can be sure she thought about it, then rejected it for reasons both good and bad.

    I learned over the years that the fiend makes the family budget in most cases. The priority goes like this:

    Anything for the kids comes first, even total luxuries. Anything for herself, comes second, even luxuries, though she doesn’t call it for herself. She calls it For The House. And, of course, For The House is sacred, no?

    So, the man’s needs, desires, hobbies, dreams, are third in priority?

    Hardy har har. No, they are not on the budget at all. The only reason he gets food and clothes is because he needs them to keep working.

    I remember back in the 70’s, the same crew of female vipers at work that told me a man can’t even hit a woman when she’s smashing a kid’s arms and legs with a baseball bat, also were discussing feminist news articles about who spends the money in the family.

    Each and everyone of these vipers said the only descretionary money spent in the family was by the husband. Yes, indeedy, the spend thrift.

    One low life actually bought a new, albeit basic, shot gun. The horror of it all.

    Another said her husband bought a new motorcycle, a small one. The bum used it to go to work so his wife could have the new car. He was apparently supposed to rise an hour early and walk to work so Her ladyship could drive the new car. No? What a spendthift!

    I did what I had learned to do for maximum information. STFU and listen.

    Over the next few months, these financially abused victims of male selfishness chatted happily about things like spending (in 2014 dollars) thousands on new furniture and carpet, “Well, I was bored with the stuff we had for two years.”

    I sometimes quote MarkyMark, “You can’t make up stuff like this.” Well, I couldn’t ever make up the stupid shit that I have heard come out of the mouths of stupid AW over the last 40 years. My opinion that collectively AW are insane is not based on my own misogyny, but on things I have heard them say over the years.

  87. Yep, it’s your masculine Man-Up responsibility to put a ring on it…

    and never tell her she needs to lose weight (coercive control) or tell she can’t buy something you can’t afford (restricting her financial freedom).

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11244275/New-domestic-violence-law-will-outlaw-coercive-control.html

  88. thedeti says:

    “Some men on this blog are no better.
    ****

    “But, doesn’t typing anonymously on the Internet count?”

    Then what do you want men to do?

  89. Anonymous age 72 says:

    >>Then what do you want men to do?

    Do whatever they choose to do, and stop pissing on men with a different view.

  90. Anonymous age 72 says:

    If you want to post anonymously in the Internet I would never criticize you. If you only post on the Internet anonymously and start finding fault with men who do something different, then, yes, I am going to tell you what I think of that.

  91. Anonymous age 72 says:

    Over the years, my observation is, it is not a lack of men doing things that has kept men in bondage and slavery. It is the incessant bickering and attacks on any man who actually does something.

    “You’re doing it wrong.”

    “You’re doing it wrong.”

    On and on until they give up and stop doing anything.

  92. earl says:

    ‘Do whatever they choose to do, and stop pissing on men with a different view.’

    I don’t mind if men have a different view on things…I just don’t agree suicide is a viable way out of any situation.

  93. HawkandRock says:

    @Rollo,

    “Under the terms of the Bill a person convicted of coercive control could face up to 14-years in prison and there will be no statutory time limit for the offences, meaning abuse dating back years can be taken into account.”

    At least legislators didn’t submit to the temptation to overreach …..Hahahaha

    Oh brave new world, please let me off.

  94. thedeti says:

    “Over the years, my observation is, it is not a lack of men doing things that has kept men in bondage and slavery. It is the incessant bickering and attacks on any man who actually does something.
    “You’re doing it wrong.”
    “You’re doing it wrong.”
    “On and on until they give up and stop doing anything.”

    Unfortunately that sounds about right.

    The Christians accuse PUAs of immorality and the MGTOWs of shirking their duties and fornicating. The MGTOWs call the PUAs pu$$y slaves, and tell the Christians to get out of their business. And the PUAs call the Christians moral meddlers, and accuse the MGTOWs of being spineless pu$$y sore losers.

    It really is all about individual choices. The Christian men are faced with either the best attempt at biblical marriage they can muster, or living out their lives celibate. For us there is no other moral choice. MGTOWs will do what they can and must. The PUAs, for their part, through observation and study have reminded men of the truths of female nature, and use it to fornicate. Most of them make no secret of the fact that they’re taking advantage of the current SMP as it is. I think all men can use the knowledge PUAs have codified (really, what they’ve done is “rediscover” and remember what’s always been true of women; but which feminism has concealed and tried to explain away with great success).

  95. Opus says:

    @Hawkand Rock

    I may be mistaken but I suspect the young journalist at the Telegraph is jumping to conclusions. In England, although there is not (as in The United States) any time limit to how far back one may go to prosecute a crime – provided it is a crime, that is not the same as saying that the Act will be retroactive. I would be rather surprised were the Act retroactive – I have never come across retroactive legislation.

    The legislation will of course be used by divorcing wives to shaft their husband, and the allegations will be, as ever, unsupported by evidence other than her say-so. It amounts in effect to reversing no-fault divorce for now Judges are going to have to decide, in coming to a conclusion as to whether the husband was abusive, whether the allegations are true and if so whether they amount to abusive behaviour. I suspect that any behaviour no matter how trivial will be caught by the legislation and will surely also lead to even more men simply refusing to live – married or otherwise – with anyone of the female sex.

    Really verbally abusive or controlling men will not however have anything to worry about, for the wives of such men would never say anything against their husbands and will defend him to the end. Only Betas will be caught.

  96. Lol, having a fight with your wife, and bam, she can send you off to the slammer. It’s madness, and they know it, women know it, they all know it. No excuses anymore.

    Women are verbally and mentally abusive far more than men, however, that article and probably the law itself, clearly state that it’s meant for men. How the heck can they equate physical abuse with mental abuse?! Pure madness. This law quite clearly is meant to allow wives control over their husbands. Any man who dares to try to lead his wife beware, this law is meant for you. You better make your wife happy and you better earn enough to finance her lavish spending; and you better not control who she decides to sleep with both before, during and after her shamarriage to you.

    Fuck it, women are the enemy.

  97. HawkandRock says:

    I honestly couldn’t in good conscience advise any man to engage in any kind of romantic relationship with a woman. The potential risks so far outweigh any perceived benefit it is almost comical to even discuss it.

    Breeding is fast becoming the exclusive perview of the barbarous and criminal classes with nothing left to lose.

  98. BradA says:

    Then what do you want men to do?

    Follow his ways.

    Anon72,

    Do whatever they choose to do, and stop pissing on men with a different view.

    Don’t you do the same?

    If you want to post anonymously in the Internet I would never criticize you. If you only post on the Internet anonymously and start finding fault with men who do something different, then, yes, I am going to tell you what I think of that.

    Says the man who posts anonymously on the Internet.

    I am not anonymous. Perhaps some risk to myself, but so what, I am willing to live with that risk.

    thedeti,

    I will speak against sin whoever commits it. They are still free to do as they wish. I am no longer allowed to say I find the PUAs reprehensible and the thinking of some MGTOWs a bit incomplete?

    I don’t know what I would recommend to a young man today, though I am not in a position to have much influence there now. I certainly would not recommend a naive charge into marriage, though it is the only Biblical outlet for sex as you correctly note.

  99. Snowy says:

    earl said “A woman divorcing because of her feelings is as much a cowardly act as a man who commits suicide because of his feelings.”

    That’s a very good point, earl. When I hear of a man suiciding, I think ‘there but for the grace of God go I,’ because I’ve been through the meat grinder myself. Christ saved me from myself. And He still does, every day. I never came to the point of suicide, but suffered the darkest thoughts I’ve ever known, while in the pit. Suicide is of the Devil. Once I knew that, I was not drawn to that darkest of thoughts beyond a certain point of living hell. And yet my wife decided to divorce me. I never wanted or needed a divorce, despite our difficulties. She has extremely short-term thinking; perhaps no-term thinking?! So, looks like she’s the coward. I should have known. Thanks earl.

  100. earl says:

    @Snowy…

    Thanks for your story. You got a better reward.

  101. earl says:

    ‘I don’t know what I would recommend to a young man today, though I am not in a position to have much influence there now. I certainly would not recommend a naive charge into marriage, though it is the only Biblical outlet for sex as you correctly note.’

    Christian men have to find something else for release other than sex. Part of the problem is both genders are abusing sex outside of marriage and hence these Draconian laws came about.

    Serving Jesus would be better in the long run anyway. Society has made it to where people worship women and sex way too much.

  102. new anon says:

    @BradA said: I will speak against sin whoever commits it. They are still free to do as they wish. I am no longer allowed to say I find the PUAs reprehensible and the thinking of some MGTOWs a bit incomplete?

    I don’t know what I would recommend to a young man today, though I am not in a position to have much influence there now. I certainly would not recommend a naive charge into marriage, though it is the only Biblical outlet for sex as you correctly note.

    So what advice would you give a young man today?

    A few stats I ran across today:

    50% general divorce rate
    66% of US divorces are initiated by the wife
    72% if UK divorces are initiated by the wife
    72% of new brides believe they will get divorced eventually

    The Bible gives solid advice on what to do if you burn: get married and do not deny each other. Unfortunately, the Biblical form of marriage no longer exists. Neither the church or society as a whole will support his effort to maintain a Biblical marriage. He risks being like the man that hand an unclean spirit.

    But the unclean spirit, when he is gone out of the man, passes through waterless places, seeking rest, and doesn’t find it. Then he says, ‘I will return into my house from which I came out,’ and when he has come back, he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. Then he goes, and takes with himself seven other spirits more evil than he is, and they enter in and dwell there. The last state of that man becomes worse than the first. Even so will it be also to this evil generation.”

    Are the only two options for a man to burn with lust or entering into a non-biblical marriage that has a high probability of leaving him worse off than he was before?

  103. imnobody00 says:

    @JF

    Sorry, Boxer, but it’s not idiotic at all. Think deeper. It’s the logical outcome of Darwinian philosophy. You could also read the words and works of 20th century Christian philosophers like CS Lewis and Francis Schaeffer. They rightfully pointed out that, if a man is a philosophical materialist and believed everything happened by chance, then our very notion of Right vs. Wrong, our collective moral compass, also arose by pure chance. Now, within such an all-chance, no-design worldview, who’s to say that suicide is wrong? For that matter, who’s to say that ANYyhing is wrong, given a purely atheistic, naturalistic worldview? Everything came about by CHANCE, right??
    Good vs Bad is the realm of theology. An atheist, such as, say, a Darwinist, for example, is on wholly alien turf whenever he discusses such things.

    @Boxer

    tl;dr… before Christianity was invented, no one ever thought about good and evil, right and wrong.

    That’s an interesting theory.

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-ethics/

    Boxer, I usually agree with you but this time, you pulled a strawman. Aristotle WAS NOT a philosophical materialist AT ALL and didn’t think that everything happened by chance. Aristotle not only believed in God, it believed in many things beyond matter (forms, final causes, etc).

    It’s not that a philosophical materialist cannot have a standard of right or wrong. It’s that their standard is completely unfounded, subjective and has no authority for others. If a Muslim man kills an apostate (as the Islamic religion states), who am I to judge? I have my opinion of what is right and the Muslim man has his opinion. Without any objective standard, the whole thing boils down to difference of opinion. Ethics for the materialist is standing on mid air.

    Mind you, the problem is not with atheism per se but with materialism. For example, an atheist who believes in Platonic philosophy can say that the Platonic idea of Good is an objective standard so his ethics is founded in an objective standard. But the vast majority of modern atheists are materialists.

  104. Highwasp says:

    >>Then what do you want men to do?

    “Do whatever they choose to do, and stop pissing on men with a different view…”

    Like BaptistChoirBoySurvivor™ who is trying to “Think deeper” to consider Suicide as “the logical outcome of Darwinian philosophy…”

    But he immediately runs into “Survival of The Fittest” –

    ‘Survival’ being the first word of “Darwinian philosophy” ~ There – deep enough thought to rebut a Christian man who’s self righteous limitations allows him to condescendingly regurgitate “everything happened by chance”, “arose by pure chance”, “all-chance, no-design”, “who’s to say that ANYthing is wrong”…

    Billions of years of Chance?

    That’s just prideful ignorance.

    Christianity hasn’t yet evolved methods to resist the parasite known as Feminism. Instead it acquiesces to Feminism with the sanctioning of Marriage 2.0, Man-Up and marry those single moms – There’s some more prideful ignorance for you.

    Add prideful ignorance to Christians and Feminists similarities.

    And both believe that “Mankind” is inherently evil.

    Both are derogatory and condescending towards those who are not included in their ‘in group’ favoritism. One calls it ‘sinful’ the other ‘criminal’.

    Both attempt to silence dissent ~

    Both condemn and convert with guilt and shame, then degrade into fear and threat of ‘eternal damnation’ if one is not convinced of their dogma.

    Both use public proclamation to bind followers to the dogma

    Christian’s Jealous God and Feminists Envious Idolitry…

    1. Maybe Christianity and Feminism are too similar to separate at this time.
    2. Maybe Feminism emulates Christianity to avoid detection.
    3. Maybe Christianity enables Feminism in a symbiotic relationship to gain more power and control…
    4. Maybe Christianity can eradicate Feminism by considering the similarity and acceptance of all men instead of harping on our differences.

    This includes all men: [alpha… thugs… alpha thugs… real alphas… alpha jerk, alpha cad, douchbags, players, PUA, supplicating betas, jerks, losers, macho assholes, players, foolish fornicators, MGTOW, Gamers, Overweight Losers in their Mom’s basement, Manginas, White Knights, weak, pathetic, parasitic, pussy begging sinners such as HarleyMcBadBoy and even f*ckbuddyrockbanddrummer]

    I have more in common with all of them than I do with feminists and women. But Christian men don’t see it that way. There’s us and them and those ‘other men’ are defined as any of the above because ‘they’ don’t believe as ‘we’ do. Divide and conquer.

  105. jeff says:

    Fitness test with just a look:

    I’ll have in laws or my folks in town and she’ll give me a look. she’s done it forever. When I first took the redpill I would simply say, “What was that look for?” Where in the past I would not say anything.

    She is 9 years older (yes I’m that guy). So, the last time she did it, I asked, “What was that look for?”

    Her: It was just my old face.

    Me: Oh, that make sense. It was quite revulsive.

    Her: I CAN’T BELIEVE YOU WOULD SAY SUCH A THING, THAT IS SO MEAN….

    Needless to say whine, blah, blah blah. No sex. (I should actually clarify, I get sex, but it’s me giving it to her while she lays there.

    So my parents are coming into town for xmas…. How do I deal with this fitness test? As this seems to be the most prevelant one since I do the agree/amplify method and it backfires.

    I can’t find this type of fitness test any where on the mansosphere.

  106. Gunner Q says:

    earl @ 11:21 am:
    “A woman divorcing because of her feelings is as much a cowardly act as a man who commits suicide because of his feelings.”

    Neither is an act of cowardice. Frivorce is treason and suicide is a painkiller.

    From where comes the idea that suicide is a sin, let alone an unforgivable one? It isn’t murder and coercing a suicidal person into living dishonors the image of God–taking away a man’s right to make decisions, penning him like veal. I understand discouraging suicide because the opportunities we have in this life will never be repeated but no more than that.

    Life in modern America is cruel. We men have been betrayed by every institution and the female half of humanity, and future indicators suggest total collapse… must we also be forced to live against our will, too? On this very thread I’ve heard it seriously proposed that this particular guy shouldn’t have killed himself because he could have hid enough funds from the divorce courts and made an illegal border crossing to spend the rest of his life in a foreign land where he can only see his kids over the Internet. With alternatives like that, I would’ve chosen suicide too.

  107. greyghost says:

    Deti

    The Christians accuse PUAs of immorality and the MGTOWs of shirking their duties and fornicating. The MGTOWs call the PUAs pu$$y slaves, and tell the Christians to get out of their business. And the PUAs call the Christians moral meddlers, and accuse the MGTOWs of being spineless pu$$y sore losers.

    Try to think of them as all MRA’s (for lack of a better term) With the analogy of the different types of men being in different jobs in the military. The one thing they need to have in common is red pill. All men teach red pill to all men always. The infighting and nit picking and bragging up about what role you are playing is normal. Leadership roles which we have all taken as commenters here means we need to understand that PUA/MGTOW can be the same man at different stages of his life. All men including manginas and white knights have a role.

  108. Boxer says:

    Dear imnobody00:

    It’s actually you that’s strawmanning. Incidentally, are you also posting articles here as “JF”? If not, then maybe your strawman was a result of poor reading.

    Boxer, I usually agree with you but this time, you pulled a strawman. Aristotle WAS NOT a philosophical materialist AT ALL and didn’t think that everything happened by chance. Aristotle not only believed in God, it believed in many things beyond matter (forms, final causes, etc).

    It’s safe to say Aristotle didn’t believe in your god. Christianity had yet to be invented, and he probably didn’t know any Jews either.

    Uncle Ari tended to think in terms of the Hegelian/Marxist “Geist”… A sort of historical imperative that achieves self consciousness. He was pretty far ahead of his time, that guy. For more on this, see Physics 8, specifically the discussion of the ‘mover who remains at rest’, etc. This is often translated as “God” or “the gods” in English versions, but it is very far removed from what you guys pray to.

    It’s not that a philosophical materialist cannot have a standard of right or wrong. It’s that their standard is completely unfounded, subjective and has no authority for others. If a Muslim man kills an apostate (as the Islamic religion states), who am I to judge? I have my opinion of what is right and the Muslim man has his opinion. Without any objective standard, the whole thing boils down to difference of opinion. Ethics for the materialist is standing on mid air.

    Here’s one of the foremost materialists of the western world, worrying about ethics.
    http://www.epicurus.net/en/vatican.html
    Maybe you can point out some of the specific errors in his thought? It’d be fun to talk about him.

    Mind you, the problem is not with atheism per se but with materialism. For example, an atheist who believes in Platonic philosophy can say that the Platonic idea of Good is an objective standard so his ethics is founded in an objective standard. But the vast majority of modern atheists are materialists.

    Can you give me your definition of “materialism” please? You’re using the word inconsistently, and I don’t want to continue, until I’m sure I know what you mean when you use it.

    Best, Boxer

  109. And in case you thought Yes Means Yes was going to be limited to university campuses…

    http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/11/rape_by_fraud_nj_lawmaker_introduces_bill_to_make_it_a_crime.html

    That was quick.

    Deti was right.

  110. greyghost says:

    Gunner Q

    Life in modern America is cruel. We men have been betrayed by every institution and the female half of humanity, and future indicators suggest total collapse… must we also be forced to live against our will, too? On this very thread I’ve heard it seriously proposed that this particular guy shouldn’t have killed himself because he could have hid enough funds from the divorce courts and made an illegal border crossing to spend the rest of his life in a foreign land where he can only see his kids over the Internet. With alternatives like that, I would’ve chosen suicide too.

    Outstanding. Let that message be common knowledge

  111. “I truly believe that we have to look at the issue of rape as more than sexual contact without consent. Fraud invalidates any semblance of consent just as forcible sexual contact does.”

    As written, the bill doesn’t consider sexual assault by fraud any less serious than other types of sexual assault that are already on the books. It could be a first degree or second degree crime depending on “the circumstances surrounding the act,” punishable with 10 to 20 years in prison in the former and 5 to 10 years in prison in the latter.

    So essentially, nonconsensual fraud-rape is arbitrarily defined by the victim and punishable by 5-20 years in prison. Tell me again how it’s men not Manning Up to marry women is the reason for the marriage rate decline?

  112. greyghost says:

    Rollo
    MGTOW/family man using a surrogate sounds pretty good huh.

  113. enrique432 says:

    Who was the best drummer in the Beatles? Paul.
    Who had the better voice? Paul.
    Who wrote the best songs? Paul.
    Who had the most success/hits from 1970-80? Paul.

    There’s never been any “controversy”. Paul McCartney is arguably the greatest songwriter of the 20th Century, certainly one of the most prolific, and best/most known and toured, and bought. Lennon was next to NOTHING without Paul. Period.

    Just thought I’d interject.

  114. enrique432 says:

    http://news.yahoo.com/erdogan-women-not-equal-men-141047433.html

    Erdogan provides more evidence in support of my (Islamic) theory. The “War on Terror” (and it’s extension, the war between the Western World and Islam) is a war between Alphas and Betas. Those who have the MOST Alphas, the highest birthrate and conversion rate, win. Period.

  115. Boxer says:

    Women often begin hiding money secretly once they decide to announce a divorce. Men would be wise to beat them to the punch. Open foreign bank accounts before you even marry. Stash money away on a regular basis. Keep your passport ready.

    I dare say that just having such options open to them would lower the chances of divorce. Women can sorta smell the complacency in their men, and this doesn’t excite them.

    Having an “out” would keep her on her toes.

  116. Boxer says:

    Dear Gunner Q et. al.:

    I originally wanted to dispel the notion that men who off themselves during divorce nastiness was some sort of Yukio Mishima-esque act of ultimate heroism. People often speak of Thomas James Ball as some sort of reified martyr, that we should all bow down and worship. He wasn’t. Neither are people who commit violent crimes at the courthouse heroes. They’re mentally ill dupes who make their own kids’ lives immeasurably harder. I have sympathy, don’t get me wrong, but they aren’t people to emulate or look up to.

    From where comes the idea that suicide is a sin, let alone an unforgivable one? It isn’t murder and coercing a suicidal person into living dishonors the image of God–taking away a man’s right to make decisions, penning him like veal.

    I’d argue that once you have a kid, your life stops being a narcissistic import and becomes (at least partially) about that kid. A father has a positive duty toward his kid. That doesn’t mean that the duty needs to degenerate into sending checks to the kidnapper, but it does mean he should stay alive.

    I’m very glad my father didn’t waste himself before I got the chance to know him. My life would be infinitely worse today if he was a Thomas James Ball type.

    I understand discouraging suicide because the opportunities we have in this life will never be repeated but no more than that.

    Try thinking about someone aside from yourself. I know that’ll be something of a foreign experience, but you can do it, I promise.

    Boxer

  117. Anonymous Reader says:

    Rollo, I can’t seem to find any objections to the NJ fraud-rape bill from the conservatives. Not from the tradcons, not from the socons, not from any churches. There must be a huge ground swell of protest out there that I’m missing in my search. Help me out here with a pointer to all that massive opposition, eh?

  118. greyghost says:

    TFH
    ISIS doesn’t seem to be making any headway in Turkey

  119. TheRhoubbhe says:

    greyghost and Rollo

    It is depressing and nihilistic how society thinks this civilization will last by replacing productive married fathers with merciless thugs bred and raised to make single mothers tingle

    It won’t end well.

  120. TheRhoubbhe says:

    TFH wrote ‘Women hate civilization, because it complicates their quest to satiate their gina tingles.’

    Those tingles will be a hell of a tradeoff for a return to 35 year life spans, difficult childbirth, rape, starvation, pandemics, and warfare.

  121. MarcusD says:

    husband says we’ll have time for us later
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=923835

    Article – “Women on the pill have more to worry about than fancying their partner” Holly Grigg-Spall
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=923939

    Family life made us miserable
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=923757

  122. MarcusD says:

  123. MarcusD says:

  124. greyghost says:

    I really hope that law gets passed in New Jersey. That is going to be fun to watch.

  125. greyghost says:

    The UK deserves what it gets. If there ever was a country that needs gandarusa and the red pill it is that one. The last two guys that wanted to marry have now changed their mind.

  126. Opus says:

    There can be no doubt that under the proposed New Jersey law, I (and probably every other man) am a Rapist. I said I loved you, it was what you wanted to hear, I lied; I exaggerated my financial prospects, whilst keeping my fingers crossed.

    I was always, however, puzzled by a precedent which we studied as law students. The facts were that under cover of darkness a man got into bed with a woman but she mistook the intruder for her boyfriend. Now I ask you, how could the woman not know that the man who had got into her bed was other than her lover, and how could he know, when she appeared so enthusiastic that his affections were not welcome. Should I ever return to New Jersey I will, for its duration, stay on the turnpike. New Jersey welcomes careful drivers.

  127. Opus says:

    I’d like to say that the picture linked by Marcus D (the female not the negro) looks just like my former girlfriend, though the hair is marginally longer and so I say, do not be misled, as I was, bringing out all my worst beta characteristics, by that look of self-pity. That is calculated cuckoldry masquerading as victimhood.

  128. Oblivion says:

    @jeff

    the key to that is playful dominance. you dont ask her what the look means, u define what the look means and then go into action. when she gives u the look say ” i know what that looks means, its spanking time. ” give her a light pat on the behind. the next time she does it ” i know what that look means, dinner must be ready” it doesnt matter really what u say, what matters is that u define her look and maintain the frame of playful dominance. Its the playful dominance that she craves, the look is what tells u that she wants it. at some point when she gives u the look, throw her over your shoulder and carry her to the bed room. “say something like “tarzan knows that look”

  129. earl says:

    ‘Conclusion : Women hate civilization, because it complicates their quest to satiate their gina tingles.’

    I don’t think they hate civilization…they just want it all. What they don’t know is wanting it all can destroy civilization.

  130. earl says:

    ‘It isn’t murder and coercing a suicidal person into living dishonors the image of God–taking away a man’s right to make decisions, penning him like veal.’

    Suicide is murder. That doesn’t mean the decision to do it is taken away…that just means it isn’t sugarcoated because of how a person feels.

  131. “The Christian men are faced with either the best attempt at biblical marriage they can muster, or living out their lives celibate.”

    Speaking for myself, the “big blessings” in life have come in such a way that there was no mistaking that God had a major hand in them, so that I can give Him the credit and to be assured that they won’t cause me any long-term grief. And that’s pretty much the only way I’d get involved in a long-term relationship – if I miraculously crossed paths with a Christian woman with an athletic physique, a love for America, etc. Even then, I’m still in no hurry.

    For fellow Christian MGTOW who haven’t had their sex drives shamed into extinction by the likes of Joshua Harris, I’d recommend masturbation when the need arises. Seriously. It’s a lot less risky than Western marriage, and anyone who’s studied Scripture for any length of time would agree that the Bible is silent on the issue.

  132. TheRhoubbhe says:

    TFH

    I have read articles that claim Artificial Intelligence might make humans obsolete, but I doubt it will happen. Machines cannot acquire resources or reproduce on their own yet; their fatal flaw is that their existence is completely dependent on humans.

    Humanity seems more interested in continuing down a path of tingly feel-good nihilism that will result in a more primitive and savage way of life.

  133. Dban says:

    @Oblivion
    the key to that is playful dominance. you dont ask her what the look means, u define what the look means and then go into action. when she gives u the look say ” i know what that looks means, its spanking time. ” give her a light pat on the behind. the next time she does it ” i know what that look means, dinner must be ready” it doesnt matter really what u say, what matters is that u define her look and maintain the frame of playful dominance. Its the playful dominance that she craves, the look is what tells u that she wants it. at some point when she gives u the look, throw her over your shoulder and carry her to the bed room. “say something like “tarzan knows that look”

    Well that is freckin brilliant. As a man who struggles to find an appropriate way to be a Christian and properly balance alpha and beta qualities it is always great to see quick little targeted tips like this. Through my two marriages I have found that I”m pretty alpha before the ring but that I devolve into more beta behavior afterwords. My wife has been giving me some crappy looks lately also that I have been struggling to understand and this has reminded me that the shit test is trying to understand it at all. There isn’t a need to understand, just to be dominant and in control.

  134. imnobody00 says:

    @enrique432 says:

    The “War on Terror” (and it’s extension, the war between the Western World and Islam) is a war between Alphas and Betas. Those who have the MOST Alphas.

    It’s not that simple, enrique432, and I would like to explain why, not only for you but for readers that do not know Islam. Before that, a disclaimer. If you are easily offended (such as most of your coreligionists who are fond of criticizing everything Western but can’t accept any critique), please stop reading. Go to the Qur’an and the hadiths, instead.

    Being an European, Muslims are my neighbors. Islam is full of betas. The same as any other society. Muslim women pay lip service to the headship of the husband and, yes, they walk behind them. In reality, they convince their husband to do whatever they want. Muslim leaders are very bold and protest and demand when the government is weak or trying to appease them (Europe, for example). But, when the government is strong, they stay silent. Gaddafi, when he was in power, could deny the hadiths (‘The Qur’an is sufficient for us’) and the Libyan Islamic leaders stood silent, because they knew that Gaddafi would not allow any critique. If Gaddafi had been a Western leader, there would have been lots of riots, demonstrations and burning of buildings for this blasphemy.

    Bold with the weak, coward with the strong. This is a pretty beta attitude. In Europe, when there is a quarrel between an European and a Muslim, some other Muslim appear to defend the Muslim guy. They only fight if they are majority. Beta.

    The Prophet was also pretty beta. Married when she was 25 y.o. with a 40 y.o widow, Khaddiya, you cannot see that he was able to attract the hottest chicks in town. Remember that Alpha means success with women, not with war or religion. Then Khaddiya died and Mohammed married another widow, Sawda, who, according to some traditions, she was 50-year old widow when Muhammad married her (older than Mohammed). The guys was no Roissy or Roosh. Only when he got all the religious, political and militar power, the guy was able to get women that could bear children (including the wife of his adoptive son and a 6 y.o. little girl). So, yes, their seduction techniques were in need of an improvement and the guy was pretty beta.

    It is not that Christianity or atheism are not full of betas: they are too. The difference is that Islam is full of betas WITH A PATRIARCHAL IDEOLOGY and the Western world is full of betas WITH A MATRIARCHAL IDEOLOGY. And patriarchy wins matriarchy every time. But Islam is evolving too.

    , the highest birthrate and conversion rate, win. Period.

    Christianity is the religion in the world with a highest conversion rate. That’s a fact. But, the birthrate of Islamic countries is higher than Western countries. That’s a fact too. This would seem that Islam is about to conquer Europe, IF THINGS STAY THE SAME AS NOW. But Islamic birthrates are dropping dramatically and approaching Western values. See:

    http://dougsaunders.net/2013/09/10-myths-about-muslim-immigrants-in-the-west/

    Also Muslim are more dependent than Westerners on the welfare state, which is on its way out. So, the future is not written. We will see.

  135. Anonymous age 72 says:

    BradA says:
    November 24, 2014 at 3:40 pm

    Hey, Brad, do you actually read what you write before you send it?

    I said: Do whatever they choose to do, and stop pissing on men with a different view.

    You said: Don’t you do the same?

    I said: If you want to post anonymously in the Internet I would never criticize you. If you only post on the Internet anonymously and start finding fault with men who do something different, then, yes, I am going to tell you what I think of that.

    You said: Says the man who posts anonymously on the Internet.

    Clearly you did not understand a word I said, did you? Nor I suspect do you understand what you wrote.

    The conversation had to do with people who are attacking as cowards those who expat or otherwise bail out. That they should stay and fight. But, almost no one here has ever actually fought anyone or anything in the area of men’s rights. Posting anonymously on the Internet is NOT fighting at all, no matter how like Casper Milquetoast’s your imagination is.

    (Nor let me add neither is posting here under your partially complete name.)

    So, when someone calls a man a coward for bailing, instead of staying and ‘fighting’, he is actually saying, “Stay and do nothing but big talk, just as I am.” Whoopee darn!

    I don’t begrudge men who have decided to never do anything but post anonymously on the Internet. Except when they call men cowards who bail after they simply can’t tolerate any more, and pretend they are some sort of brave fighter themselves. For posting anonymously on the Internet.

    So, let us complete your paragraph. “Says the man who posts anonymously on the Internet” but who from 1984 to 1993 spent 20 hours a week as a public activist. And, I put my name and address at the bottom of each op-ed or article, and my phone number was in the phone book.

    As I have asked others here before, please inform us of your great public efforts before you mock others.

    I have chosen anonymity because today anyone who is identified on the manosphere is at great risk. Not from feminists nor government, though I suppose that is possible. No, from men on the manosphere. And, those at risk from other men on the manosphere include Dalrock. As owner of a very successful blog, he can be labeled as a fighter. We commentors cannot, unless we actually do something else as well.

  136. JB says:

    [NOTE – OT post]

    I never post comments, and I read a lot of blogs and have been for years..so this is a rare occasion for me.

    I’ve been reading the stuff here on Dalrock and a bit on other sites for the past 5 days and I feel like for the first time I have an accurate synthesis of a lot of disparate thoughts and observations I’ve had over the years. I have to thank Dalrock in particular for that, but also the commentariat. I’m classic beta, have had a couple short term relationships, a couple opportunities that I turned down, and find myself single at 32. I’d knocked women off the pedestal in my head somewhat a few years back, and realized there’s something really wrong with how millenials do relationships, but the concept of hypergamy explained a lot. I come from so/tradcon Christianity, and being raised in that environment, could not understand how women who supposedly desired monogamy could fall for some of the worst men and act like whores. Hypergamy largely explains that phenomenon and fixes the contradiction in my mind. Which led me to thinking about something. I don’t know if this has been expressed elsewhere but I wanted others’ opinions.

    Starting with the presupposition that Christian teachings are generally true: if we say the fall marred all of creation, that would extend to sexuality. I do believe that before the fall, mens’ and women’s sexual desire is expressed in one partner for life monogamy; I take that from my reading of Scripture. So with the fall, both mens’ and womens’ sexuality have been distorted, but in different ways. Men become promiscuous; women hypergamous? Is that fair to say?

    Getting the average Christian guy to agree with hypergamy seems hard….I’ve already had one kinda nasty discussion about it.

  137. Gunner Q says:

    Chris Dagostino @ 9:07 am:
    “… anyone who’s studied Scripture for any length of time would agree that the Bible is silent on the issue.”

    Ephesians 5:3 is a relevant condemnation; masturbation is hard to separate from porn so you’ve got Matt. 5:28 and related prohibitions; and enduring unresolvable sexual desire is exactly the sort of thing Romans 12:1 is talking about.

  138. mikediver5 says:

    JB,

    Hypergamy is not the female counterpart of male promiscuity. The female counterpart to male parallel promiscuity is female serial monogamy; which I agree is closely related to hypergamy. Hypergamy is the natural desire of each and every woman to have sex with only the best man available. This differs from monogamy in that the best man available is constantly changing. And her perception of the best man available changes once she has him. Releasing women’s hypergamy from any and all restraint gives us the hookup culture based on women’s preferred form of promiscuity we are now living in. Dalrock has had excellent discussions of the preferred female version of promiscuity. To call serial monogamy anything but promiscuity is to give women a pass on their preferred method of sin. So, hypergamy is a feature (not a bug) of female nature; which does not excuse them for being just as promiscuous as men. Until the past few hundred years in the west every culture understood the nature of women and the danger of letting it run rampant. We forgot this and are paying the price.

  139. JDG says:

    mikediver5 says:
    November 26, 2014 at 9:16 am

    Excellent summation.

  140. “I’d argue that once you have a kid, your life stops being a narcissistic import and becomes (at least partially) about that kid. A father has a positive duty toward his kid.”

    I second that.

  141. Luke says:

    Chris Dagostino says:
    November 25, 2014 at 9:07 am

    ““The Christian men are faced with either the best attempt at biblical marriage they can muster, or living out their lives celibate.”

    For fellow Christian MGTOW who haven’t had their sex drives shamed into extinction by the likes of Joshua Harris, I’d recommend masturbation when the need arises. Seriously. It’s a lot less risky than Western marriage, and anyone who’s studied Scripture for any length of time would agree that the Bible is silent on the issue.”

    Agreed. Plus, the rate of prostate cancer (which kills more men than breast cancer kills women) is considerably reduced for men who ejaculate at least once a day. Nocturnal emissions are much rarer than daily, so if sex is not a current option for a man, that leaves masturbation.

    To quote Robert Heinlein on the subject:

    : Masturbation is cheap, clean, convenient, and free of any possibility of wrongdoing — and you don’t have to go home in the cold. But it’s lonely.

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