This far you may come and no farther.

With Gamergate, we may finally have found the line in the sand when it comes to how far men will allow feminists to go in eradicating male spaces.  As Social Justice Warrior (SJW) Brianna Wu explains at The Washington Post (H/T Vox):

Gamergate is ostensibly about journalistic ethics. Supporters say they want to address conflicts of interest between the people that make games and the people that support them. In reality, Gamergate is a group of gamers that are willing to destroy the women who have invaded their clubhouse.

SJW hyperbole aside, there is some truth to what she is saying.  At its core Gamergate is about gamers rejecting feminists and other SJWs who are trying to feminize their games.  The move to mark video games as feminine comes after a long series of capitulations.  In the eyes of feminists everything must be marked as feminine, from our nuclear submarines and special forces to the NFL.  And everywhere feminists have marched, men have capitulated.  That is everywhere but video games, as Wu explains:

For 30 years, video games have been designed by men, marketed to men and sold to men. It’s obvious to anyone outside the industry that video games have serious issues with the portrayal of women…

The consequence of this culture is male gamers have been trained to feel video games are their turf. In stopping Gamergate, the men who dominate it – not just women — must address the culture that created Gamergate.

Conservatives, especially Christian conservatives are quick to deride men who play video games as “Peter Pan manboys”.  However, gamers as a group have found the courage to stand up to feminism, and this kind of courage is something which so far Christians have been unable to muster.  Some things are too important to give up without a fight.  Perhaps if the gamers ultimately prevail, Christians will be inspired and decide that Christianity is also worth defending from the feminist onslaught.

This entry was posted in Feminist Territory Marking, Feminists, Social Justice Warriors, Traditional Conservatives, Vox Day. Bookmark the permalink.

163 Responses to This far you may come and no farther.

  1. donalgraeme says:

    Perhaps if the gamers ultimately prevail, Christians will be inspired and decide that Christianity is also worth defending from the feminist onslaught.

    Ouch.

    What does it say about us when the nerds in the gamer community are the last to stand up to the feminist onslaught?

    Part of me wonders how much of a surprise it is, though. A lot of the people in the ‘sphere share personality profiles with the gamer community. INTJs abound here. Might be worth exploring those connections.

  2. Pingback: This far you may come and no farther. | Manosphere.com

  3. okrahead says:

    Soon we will have:
    1) The mayor of Houston, TX issuing subpoenas of all online smack-talk during gaming sessions;
    2) Small towns in Idaho (no youdaho) demanding that gamers play games designed by womynz or face jail time;
    3) Servers being closed down by DHS for terrorist related threats from scary white neckbeards against weirdly tattooed and pierced female SJWs;
    4) National databases being compiled of men who play wargames so that they can be banned from most employment and living too close to a public park or school;
    Yeah, you can see where this is going.
    The SJWs just couldn’t be bothered to notice gamers until now, they had bigger fish to fry. Once they get serious about going after gamers we’ll see how well they hold up. At some point I’m sure that they’ll discover games that are made by and appeal to men and boys violate Title IX as well.

  4. Ras Al Ghul says:

    Okra,

    This is the last refuge of these men from a feminine primary world. Imagine what will happen if they have to escape, no outlet at all. Imagine all the angry omegas.

    Betas have stuff to lose.

    Omegas don’t.

    If only Christianity would embrace the tactics the left have been using, that’s what the gamers are doing, they are behaving just as the left have with that Mozilla Exec.

    Its about time.

  5. Farm Boy says:

    Women were complaining about the fact that games are oriented to guys. And xonsequently they want the game makers to alter the games that they create. One demand is to make games oriented to women. Since there is effectively no barrier to entry in making and marketing a game, women should make and market their own games oriented to women. Off you go ladies.

  6. bluntobj says:

    Ras has a point. Many guys have retreated into games because it allowed them to actually experience control of their environments; environments that operated on a defined set of rules that could be understood and rationally used.

    Not like the reality that has existed for the last 30 years, and much less so in the last 10 where there is little room for objectivity, rationality, or an universal ruleset.

    Attempts to take this away by the SJW’s will be like someone invading an abused dog’s doghouse; someone’s gonna get torn up.

    If you don’t have anywhere else to go, you might as well fight for what you have.

  7. Farm Boy says:

    Should not the market decide what types of games get published?

    Would not there be a free speech issue with respect to possible regulations?

  8. Earl says:

    Christians won’t stand up to feminists, while European Biker Gangs ride to Syria to fight ISIS in Kobani. WTH?

  9. BC says:

    The hardcore gaming community is a cross between Honeybadger and Russia.
    They are used to being socially shat upon, and they don’t care.
    They are also used to winning. Brutally.

    Abandon all hope, SJW who enter.

  10. Earl says:

    Gamergate has made it very apparent to everyone that women are chasing after men, trying to police their thoughts, while men are just running away and/or ignoring their tirades. No matter how much the men tell feminists to just go make their own games, men can’t seem to get away from them, and the feminists can’t seem to shut up. So now the men and their gamer friends are fighting back.

  11. Farm Boy says:

    the men who dominate it – not just women — must address the culture that created Gamergate

    That culture would be feminism, and yes, they are addressing it.

  12. honeycomb says:

    Dal ..

    Gamers will win but for a short season.

    I am a Christian. I was a Navy Nuclear Power Operator on a Fast Submarine (before women served in the Navy on combat ships).

    Frankly this is the evil of Feminism. Women demanding “equal” opportunity. But it’s really just a lie. They only want “special” outcomes thru force of law or fear of mandate.

    They wish to destroy or occupy every man strong hold left. They intend to bend and control the previousl mentioned all men groups till none exist.

    I for one don’t believe even if gamers win (for now) that Christians will come around.

    I am a rare bird at my church. As a red-pill man I stand out. All the other men are married with children and blue-pill thru-n-thru. In addition they’re raising their boys to be blue (pill) too.

    No, there will be no victory in the church’s regardless of how this gamer gate turns out.

    Just one man and his opinion.

  13. Farm Boy says:

    Gamergate has made it very apparent to everyone that women are chasing after men, trying to police their thoughts, while men are just running away and/or ignoring their tirades

    But of course. The men should be working harder. If video games are neutered to be less fun, perhaps they will.

  14. Immediately after reading this, I read a post titled “Disobey Fear” at Danger&Play that made me come back here to comment. What struck me was how the post seemed lifted straight from Scripture: references to killing the old you, being fearless, and embracing revilement. If Christians had a mindset as true to Scripture as some of these gamergate guys, we would have already banished feminism from the church.

  15. Boxer says:

    I for one don’t believe even if gamers win (for now) that Christians will come around.

    This is an interesting article, but it presents a false dilemma in its conclusion. If the cruxtoid feminist pseudo-Christians win, they consign their appropriated movement to obsolescence in a couple of generations (feminism doesn’t fill pews, just go down and look at the “progressive” church next Sunday — you know that one — and see if I’m wrong). This only strengthens the non-innovators. They get to weed out the weirdos that would otherwise pester their normal congregations, by sending them down to the First Church of Sodom, where they’re more at home.

    In a big picture kinda way, Christianity has something that video game enthusiasts do not, namely foundational literature and a well-developed structure. Christianity might die out someday, don’t get me wrong, but it won’t be soon, and I’m pretty sure it’ll survive the coming and going of the angry wimminz who don’t shave their pits. The historical imperative is not on their side.

    Best, Boxer

  16. BuenaVista says:

    The idea that self-labeled Christians will, or do, defend or practice masculinity is a huge joke. The churches are playpens for feminists, whether or not they also prefer restrictive undergarments. There is no discipleship practiced when the church agenda is “make your wife happier” and “let’s sing this soft-rock, 18 chorus tune called Jesus is my boyfriend” and “real men hug and cry” and … uggh. I really don’t see how you hammer gamergate into a Christian blog.

    But WRT gamergate, the guys won’t win, but they’ll lose heroically. The chicks will just past laws and apply rules and probably CoD should be illegal. Ministers will wring their hands and celebrate those of their flocks who decry, decry! misogynist gamers.

  17. SirHamster says:

    While there’s a lot of opportunity and lessons from GamerGate, I’m not sure how much you can say it’s anti-feminist. From observing the twitter side of things, female gamers and egalitarianism are major parts of the movement. As a whole, the gamers are interested in proving they’re not racist/misogynist/”good” (by liberal standards) people.

    That said, those female gamers are actually acting to protect gaming, and not just lip service. Contrast that to this blog’s observation on marriage 2.0 and female conservatives.

  18. infowarrior1 says:

    @SirHamster

    For the moderate progressives that are exposed to leftist insanity for the 1st time in the GG movement(and with us supporting them). This makes them more sympathetic to our view points and they are more inclined to hear what we say.

  19. desiderian says:

    Farm Boy,

    “Should not the market decide what types of games get published?”

    The SJWs believe that it should not, and are colluding to prevent it.

    “Silverstring Media makes art. We are a game developer. We consult with other game devs to help them write better stories for their games, and we make our own games

    We are a feminist company. We’ve said it before, but we believe that all people deserve to be represented in art, games, and media, and that too little out there does so. We will make stories about women and LGBT people and people of colour because it’s important. Period.

    Part of working with a feminist ethos is working to create networks of support in the place of systems of oppression. We want to see people thrive by working together and standing in solidarity with each other, without demanding conformity and marketability in order to succeed.”

  20. Dalrock says:

    @SirHamster

    That said, those female gamers are actually acting to protect gaming, and not just lip service. Contrast that to this blog’s observation on marriage 2.0 and female conservatives.

    There are two groups of women involved in GamerGate and any such takeover. The first is a small group of women who want to experience what the men have. They will counter-intuitively tend to protect the “maleness” of the space. However, the larger and more powerful group is the women who are envious of the space and set about marking it as feminine. I described these dual impulses here. Unfortunately men tend to see the first group and decide to accommodate women in order to bring in more like them, not understanding what they are unleashing in the process.

  21. SirHamster says:

    To clarify on the not “anti-feminist” point, one of the major allies of #GamerGate is Christina Sommers, an “equity feminist” professor. She’s held in high esteem as “Based Mom”, and used to demonstrate that #GamerGate is not anti-feminist or misogynist, as they have her and other feminist supporters.

  22. Farm Boy says:

    Part of working with a feminist ethos is working to create networks of support in the place of systems of oppression.

    Is not browbeating the marketplace creating a system of oppression?

  23. Farm Boy says:

    feminist ethos is working to create networks of support

    If everybody is “supporting”, who is going to actually make the games?

  24. SirHamster says:

    There are two groups of women involved in GamerGate and any such takeover.

    #GamerGate is indeed seeing a fight between the two. The girl gamers (who support #GamerGate) fighting the gamer grrrls. The latter being the ones who are just as “deserving” of the label “gamer”, but needing the gaming industry to “evolve” and “progress” to accommodate females.

    Your observation on the two groups, and the fact that #GamerGate is reliant on the first group of females, makes for interesting speculation on the results 10 years from now. But what else are men going to retreat to?

  25. Eidolon says:

    This is one of those times where people have the cause and effect exactly backwards. In their typical illogical fashion SJWs say “there aren’t many women in videogame playing or development, therefore they are being excluded.” No actual evidence of discrimination needed! We don’t need to consider what percentage of the money comes from men. We just assume discrimination from the outset, and voila, we found discrimination! The real situation is that the vast, vast majority of women have no interest in technology in general (see STEM enrollment) and gaming in particular, and the games reflect that.

    You’ll see stuff nowadays where they’ll say “50% of gamers of women now!” as though that was something to be trumpeted. But anyone who’s ever met a woman knows that an extremely small percentage of real “gamers” (i.e. people who mean by that term something other than playing Candy Crush on their iPhones) are going to be women. Think about what it takes to play Destiny, the big current game. First you have to have an HDTV. Next you have to have a fast internet connection. These are the low hurdles. Now you need to buy a brand new, $400-500 console. You have to hook it up to your TV and speaker system and configure it (how many women you’ve ever met would do this themselves? could do it?). Finally you have to buy the $60 game, keep your wireless controllers charged, keep your internet stable, and find some gamer friends to play with. The percentage of women who would go past steps 1 and 2 is extremely, extremely small. In the PC world you have to build and maintain both hardware and software.

    I’ve seen women who would play console games, but I don’t know if I’ve ever met any woman who bought a console. I’ve seen women play PC games but I’ve never seen one build and maintain her own gaming rig.

    Basically feminists are incensed that there’s any space for men, even when men are 90%+ percent of the major revenue source (talking about consoles and hardcore PC games here). What irritates me, as a gamer, is that these people are influencing the industry and what it produces, even though they didn’t buy anything before, and they won’t buy anything after any changes! The gaming industry has literally nothing to gain from acquiescing to these people, and a lot to lose.

    To be clear I have no problem with anyone making a game they want to make. There are no serious hurdles for female developers — if anything there’s affirmative action since tech people like to have a woman around once in a while; see the attention lavished on utterly unremarkable female personalities in game development.

  26. Eidolon says:

    “The latter being the ones who are just as “deserving” of the label “gamer”, but needing the gaming industry to “evolve” and “progress” to accommodate females.”

    Not so. The SJW people mostly don’t play video games anyway. Anita Sarkeesian, for example, has been widely criticized for ripping off all her game footage from Youtubers rather than capturing it for herself. It’s laziness but it’s also unfamiliarity; she’s not really that familiar with games and gaming.

    Remember that this is now a multi-billion dollar industry which hasn’t been very thoroughly infested by SJWs yet. It’s low-hanging fruit for people who want to “make a difference” (i.e. get noticed by other SJWs) and nobody thinks much of nerds so it was perceived to be hazard-free. What they’re encountering is a group who has no social capital to lose so can fight back more than others who might fear losing face.

  27. Eidolon says:

    This is also, in part, a FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt)-type strategy. People like Zoe Quinn, the woman who ended up kicking GamerGate off, i.e. SJW “game developers,” are trying to shame people away from the competition so they’ll buy from them instead. See Quinn’s attacking of a charity group that was actually doing something practical to get women into gaming on some wacky feminist grounds in order to funnel money to her own PayPal account, I mean charity (seriously it’s just a PayPal account with no details about her supposed rival charity).

    I think we give people too much credit sometimes when we think it’s ideological when in fact it’s just basic fraudulent business. Create some reason why people don’t want to use the rival’s product so they’ll have to use yours — BPA will kill your children, here use our BPA-free bottles, only 29.99!

  28. Lyn87 says:

    I gotta’ admit… I’m a gamer. I have been for years. I started playing D&D in college when Christians were still spinning records backwards to search for subliminal Satanic messages, and telling everyone the name of the band KISS was an acronym for Kids In Satan’s Service, and that D&D was a means of getting kids into witchcraft. I ignored them, because I was a bit of a geek myself and I liked to play the games and I knew I wasn’t going to become possessed by my 20-sided dice.

    The year I graduated from college I had a few months before I had to report for active duty, so a friend and I drove 1200 miles and lived in a tent for four days so we could attend Gen Con, which was the gamer equivalent of Muslims going to Mecca. I don’t recall seeing a lot of girls there… it was a nerd sausage-fest. Back then gaming wasn’t “cool” – it was mainly boys and young men like me: the Chess-Club-and-Math-Team types who could recite the entire script of “Monte Python and the Holy Grail” from memory.

    But something happened to the gaming world… some guys figured out how to computerize the process. But computers were geeky too, and girls were still in short supply. Then computer skills became lucrative, and the “cool” guys ended up working for the Chess-Club-and-Math-Team types. THEN the girls got a little interested… not in the boring work of coding, mind you, but in the guys who suddenly had resources. The high school football heroes mostly got fat and ended up in middle management, anyway.

    But old-school gamers of my generation mostly grew up more female ridicule than female interest, and when the chicks wanted to play they found themselves in something of a meritocracy… and women tend to not do very well in meritocracies that include men. Sure, the gaming community has its share of white knights who give the girls more slack than guys would get, but when the games are run by software rather than a lonely-heart Dungeon Master… Well, let’s just say that the micro-processor doesn’t care if the hand guiding the avatar is XX or XY, but it does know whether the player is doing the right things, or standing in fire like a dumb-ass. Females are, by and large, a plague on the gaming community, as they tend to bring drama rather than skills, even as they take up a spot on the roster. Of course, NAFGALT, Your Bonus Roll May Vary, and all that, but when the number of females reaches some critical mass the game becomes less about accomplishing the mission and more about not offending somebody’s girlfriend even though she just got everyone killed for the third time.

    But it’s still mostly a male space, and girls who can pull their weight are generally welcomed, as long as they can take the trash-talk that goes on between guys. Some can, and stay. Some cannot, and leave in a huff. Some decide that gamers are misogynists who need more brow-beating. But gamers are used to being ignored and ridiculed by females – it’s been in our DNA since the first gamer rolled the first handful of dice. Being thought of as outcasts is actually a large part of what defined the gaming community. Shaming has little effect, and may have the opposite effect. Maybe that’s why the gaming community is willing to stand up to this crap more than other communities have.

  29. Neguy says:

    It’s funny to see the manosphere rallying around #GamerGate given that the first three pieces of advice most ‘sphere sites give are to start hitting the gym, stop masturbating to internet porn, and stop playing video games.

    But #GamerGate is hugely important. I don’t think people understand the significance of what is happening yet.

  30. Eidolon says:

    “But it’s still mostly a male space, and girls who can pull their weight are generally welcomed, as long as they can take the trash-talk that goes on between guys.”

    Essentially what SJWs are mad about is that a) men should have any space anywhere that caters to their tastes specifically, b) that there should be any medium that doesn’t relentlessly push their propaganda, and c) that the market doesn’t care what they think if they won’t buy video games, which they very largely don’t.

    I think c) is the biggest hurdle, but they’ve made some real progress by trying to spook companies into thinking that if they don’t do what SJWs demand they’ll create tons and tons of bad press. That’s a big part of why people are so frustrated with the gaming press, whether they can articulate it well or not — if these “journalists” comply with the SJWs they can more easily force companies to do things against what their customers want, but if they don’t the SJWs won’t be as influential since they command very, very little market share.

  31. SirHamster says:

    @Lyn87:
    or standing in fire like a dumb-ass.

    Do I detect some MMO experience?

    Back when I was more egalitarian, I sought and thought I’d find some equally skilled gamer girl. Never met one. Am still curious to find the unicorn, but on further thought, doubt she’d make good wife material. She’d have useful skills, just not likely to have the right values/priorities from gaming culture.

  32. Eidolon says:

    “While there’s a lot of opportunity and lessons from GamerGate, I’m not sure how much you can say it’s anti-feminist.”

    I agree with this and I think it’s why eventually the SJWs will win. It may take 5-10 years but they always seem to win. GamerGaters spend a lot of their time trying to show how they’re good feminists, nice people, etc. as though that mattered. As though exposing SJW hypocrisy matters if you’re just going to try to out-feminist them.

    You can’t out-sensitive them, you can’t out-feminist them, and holding them to a standard of consistency without pointing out all their tricks and the fact that they’re on a totally crazy and irrational bent in general isn’t going to work. You can’t appease them, you have to fight them, not on this or that specific unethical act but on their premises. And GGers aren’t prepared to do that. I can’t see how they win without fighting the SJW core beliefs and premises, and showing that they’re false.

    The only thing that might prevent SJW dominance is the fact that you need technical people to implement games in code and the engineers I know, having to work with reality and not social justice fantasyland, tend to be more realistic and less left-leaning in my experience. But my experience may be anecdotal, and if Silicon Valley is any indication it’s not that hard to conquer the tech world too, even though very few actual SJW types can hack it in tech fields.

  33. bob says:

    @Farm Boy:

    Since there is effectively no barrier to entry in making and marketing a game, women should make and market their own games oriented to women.

    I LOL’d! Very hilarious!

    No that some woman can’t do it if they want to – but SJWs? Not a f’ing chance!

  34. infowarrior1 says:

    @Eidolon

    If you have a twitter account why not participate in the #gamergate? Then you can help the GG people to understand the SJW core beliefs and premises, and showing that they’re false.

    Preaching to the choir isn’t going to change GG.

  35. I am a software developer – but not for games.

    However, just as you often hear – ‘there is an app for that’ we often say ‘there is a market for that.’

  36. Joel P. says:

    “Anita Sarkeesian, for example, has been widely criticized for ripping off all her game footage from Youtubers rather than capturing it for herself. It’s laziness but it’s also unfamiliarity; she’s not really that familiar with games and gaming.”

    In fact (and I’m sure you’re aware of this), Sarkeesian admitted on tape in 2010 that she wasn’t a fan of video games and that she didn’t know anything about them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afgtd8ZsXzI

    The woman is a complete fraud. She doesn’t care about video games. The only thing Sarkeesian is interested in is translating her invented victimhood status into money and attention. It’s just plain old greed and attention whoring. I’m sure she gets a thrill out of sticking it to male gamers in the process, but that’s just the icing on the cake for her.

  37. sunshinemary says:

    Wu explains:

    “For 30 years, video games have been designed by men, marketed to men and sold to men. It’s obvious to anyone outside the industry that video games have serious issues with the portrayal of women…

    The consequence of this culture is male gamers have been trained to feel video games are their turf. In stopping Gamergate, the men who dominate it – not just women — must address the culture that created Gamergate.”

    Interesting quote, in light of who “Brianna” Wu used to be:
    https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Brianna_Wu

    A photo of the lovely “Mrs” Wu:

    Odd that a man is leading the charge of crazy women into remaking video games.

  38. ianironwood says:

    Feminist games will die in the market the same reason that feminist porn does: women don’t buy either. They’ll play someone else’s game, but the number of women who will go out and spend THEIR cash on games or porn is statistically too small to successfully market to – a few thousands out of millions. Nor do they buy with the same frequency or volume as male consumers.

    So game companies will continue to market games to the market, because that’s where the money is. It’s been 20 years since “feminist porn” was poised to take over the market, yet we’re ass-deep in amateur thug porn, and femporn is a negligible part of the market.

    This line won’t be crossed. Not for long, and not permanently. My money is on the gamers. SJWs want to fight injustice. Gamers want to win.

  39. Farm Boy says:

    It’s funny to see the manosphere rallying around #GamerGate given that the first three pieces of advice most ‘sphere sites give are to start hitting the gym, stop masturbating to internet porn, and stop playing video games.

    But that is only if you are not MGTOW.

  40. Farm Boy says:

    and women tend to not do very well in meritocracies that include men.

    It often seems to start with drive, which a product of testosterone.

  41. Eidolon says:

    @infowarrior1

    Don’t have a twitter account, don’t think very many people care about my passing thoughts.

    I do have high hopes for GamerGate, but 2012 taught me to be pessimistic about things that involve American politics. I really, really hope GG wins. I don’t want to be stuck with Depression Quest and Gone Home as what “gaming” means now. I just don’t see how that happens in the current climate.

    If you grant the SJWs’ premises, as most do (couldn’t count how many articles went out of their way to point out that “so and so is a feminist but she agrees with GG”), then ultimately you can’t win. You’re fighting on their ground. You can’t convince them that your personal disagreements with them are not misogynist, for example — disagreeing with them is all the proof they need that you are. That’s essentially their definition of misogyny. I tried this line of argument at BAD a while ago with the predictable results.

  42. MarcusD says:

    Well Chicks Do Love Bad Boys – So Why Not Bad Religions Too?
    http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/46010.html

    Surprising, and yet completely unsurprising.

  43. Farm Boy says:

    A photo of the lovely “Mrs” Wu

    Is that Weird Al?

  44. Tars Tarkas says:

    SJW “arguments” are emotional and not factual. No one can win an emotional argument with factual argument. Not possible. GG must make emotional arguments based on anger and outrage and stick to that. GG is about lying cheating stealing sluts. Not feminism, or gamer grrrls, or justice. LCSS

  45. Eidolon says:

    Actually the porn example makes me feel better, oddly enough. There’s not much more likelihood that women will want to participate gaming (hardcore gaming anyway) than porn, for the same general reason (sex differences in psychology and preferences).

    There are a couple of forces working in favor of gaming staying as it was.

    1. Men will continue to be 90%+ of the market for hardcore gaming, no matter how many Gone Homes people make.

    2. SJWs sometimes tip their hand as far as how unreasonable (one could say “entitled”) they can be. Recently Ubisoft got a bunch of idiots including gaming journalists complaining because there aren’t going to be playable females in the new Assassin’s Creed. This is a series based on an anti-Christian foundation which within the last few years had a full retail release game where the main character was a black woman.

    My hope would be that companies recognize that these people are so unreasonable that upsetting them is inevitable and thus they should go back to catering to their market.

  46. Eidolon says:

    @infowarrior1

    I dropped all my gaming sites (Kotaku, Joystiq, etc.) due to their unreasonable behavior w.r.t. GG. Any news site that has been reasonable about GG that I ought to support?

  47. Pro-Truth says:

    This is Anita Sarkeesian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIpw3wHn9Sk&list=UU-yewGHQbNFpDrGM0diZOLA

    @sunshinemary”Odd that a man is leading the charge of crazy women into remaking video games.”
    There are several men leading the charge.
    Most of them straight white men living in San Francisco.
    And then there’s people like Samantha Allen. https://web.archive.org/web/20140701225929/http://unpitchable.tumblr.com/post/79931857273/what-misandry-means-to-me
    (archived link, because the internet never forgets.)

    Also worthy of note is how Samantha Allen, Brianna Wu, and The Gloirous Literally Who–I mean Chelsea Van Valkenburg–I mean Locke Valentine–I mean Zoe Quinn are all BFFs

  48. KMan says:

    As someone with no time for games, I’ve more or less had my head in the sand through the whole GamerGate issue. Does anyone have a link to a decent, succinct and (relatively) unbiased overview of the affair?

  49. honeycomb says:

    @KMan ..

    Try this .. https://encrypted.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&ei=ecZJVJHrHYfg8gGbpoCIDA&q=avoiceformen+gamergate&oq=avoiceformen+gamergate&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.3…0.0.0.147.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.msedr…0…1c..56.mobile-gws-hp..0.0.0.OKDjacsH0wE

    A voice for Men has done lots of coverage. Others may have a better choice .. I’ve read so much but I know AVfM has a good Male take on this whole episode.

  50. Lyn87 says:

    SirHamster asks,

    Lyn87:

    Do I detect some MMO experience?

    Indeed you do, Sir. And by my special disdain for dumb-asses who stand in fire, you may deduce what position I usually play.

    The longer version is that I started with Avalon-Hill hex-board games (mostly WW2-based) and early arcade stuff in high school, and went from there to RPGs in college and beyond. Eventually I got into more technically complicated material like aerial dog-fighting games before computer simulation (the sheer amount of manual number-crunching you had to do to kept out the riff-raff – it might take an hour of real time to play a minute of game time. VERY few modern gamers would do that now). I became very proficient as a minmaxer as well because – as I noted – I was one of the Chess-Club-and-Math-Team guys, and minmaxing is almost as fun as playing the game for me. I dabbled in PC and console games because I like the challenges, and eventually a couple of senior NCO’s in my unit turned me on to MMORPG’s, which is where I first encountered female gamers… 30 years after I rolled my first dice with the other nerds.

    As I wrote earlier… in my experience, females are a plague on the gamer community. I have played with a small number of truly good female players (three, to be exact), but in general the critical mass seems to be that when a group becomes about 10-15% female the drama level goes through the roof and it becomes exponentially harder for the group to get anything done. For the most part, the girl gamers never go past a middling level of proficiency to truly master their roles. They rarely have to, since guys tend to give female players more slack than male players when they screw up. They also tend to allow themselves to be carried by the better (read: male) members of the team. All the people with whom I habitually play are adults (early 30’s to early 60’s), and almost all are current or former military, so we understand tactics, too.

    We were geeks back then and we knew it… outcast from the Cool Kids Club anyway. Part of the community DNA was not caring what non-gamers thought. But I’m a really old-school gamer, from the dice-and-paper days. Modern gaming is dominated by school kids and guys in their 20’s who couldn’t manually mixmax a hover-tank to save their lives. Those guys grew up in a different social mix than us old-school gamers. They had feminism rammed down their throats from the cradle, but they also didn’t have the “sugar and spice and everything nice” crap that we did. To paraphrase TFH, feminism laid bare the inequality of the sexes, so maybe those guys will be the ones who succeed in telling feminists to “F- off.” If there’s one thing I’ve seen in modern gaming, it is that it responds to market forces, and as long as the vast majority of people who spend money on games are guys, any feminist gains will be minor and short-lived. Sure, chicks can play Angry Birds and Solitaire all they want, but hard-core gaming probably won’t bow to PC pressure any more than rap did in my day.

  51. JF says:

    99% of evangelical churches in the US today and their hireling shepherd CEO\”pastors” CANNOT breathe a word against feminism because 99% of evangelical churches in the US today are actually SECULAR non-profit organizations, having become incorporated to the secular state and also signing up for the 501c3 tax-exempt status. Thus they have legally declared that Caesar is their creator and not the Lord, as plenty of US jurisprudence history has PROVEN for many years now. Given that today’s equivalent of Caesar in the US has embraced feminism as PUBLIC POLICY, state-incorporated churches must therefore do the bidding of their secular creator, knowingly or unknowingly, in order to not violate the contract into which they have entered.

    The omega male gaming community has signed no such emasculating contract, so ironically these doormats of masculinity are free to fight and be men.

    That said, there is ultimately no fighting a totalitarian state in our atomic/surveillance age. The only thing
    to hope for is a nuclear global holocaust, and then either the Return of Jesus Christ or else at least the solace of a tiny charred remnant of humanity emerging from the rubble and starting over in a post-apocalyptic world under the renewed sanity of a PATRIARCHAL system.

  52. desiderian says:

    “However, the larger and more powerful group is the women who are envious of the space and set about marking it as feminine. I described these dual impulses here. Unfortunately men tend to see the first group and decide to accommodate women in order to bring in more like them, not understanding what they are unleashing in the process.”

    The second enjoy nothing more than running out the first. That’s how the first ended up in the male space to begin with – they were trying to flee the female spaces naturally dominated by the second group.

  53. greyghost says:

    No pussy ass churchian is going to stand up to feminism.

  54. AnonS says:

    “I dropped all my gaming sites (Kotaku, Joystiq, etc.) due to their unreasonable behavior w.r.t. GG. Any news site that has been reasonable about GG that I ought to support?”

    TotalBiscuit, The Cynical Brit on Youtube

  55. Pro-Truth says:

    Also, partly at Eidolon, GamerGate will win, of this I am sure. The people involved literally have nothing to lose. Many people have already been fired because they support GG.

    There is an incredible anti-feminist undercurrent in GamerGate. Even people who claim to be “feminist” are really people who just see the problems and want equality, they’ve been duped into believing the lies. (Which reminds me, almost all of the arguments of the GamerGate opponents are projection) A lot of people have the attitude of “If we can’t fix journalism for Video Games than what hope do we have as a society. This clip gets passed around a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3RNsZvdYZQ

    A lot of the people in GG have been ridiculed, shamed, accused of being horrible people for literally decades. Just because of their hobby. They’ve been driven out of other hobbies that have been co-opted like comic books and tabletop games.

    The opposition has absolutely no other tactics than what they’ve already done. They’ve had to repeat them at least 8 times in the month and a half or so that I’ve been following the issues. It has never worked, and it never will. The SJW types have literally never met resistance, so they have absolutely no idea what to do.

    Well, except escalate things, anyway. This actually works to the advantage of GamerGate because the longer GamerGate goes on, the more people become aware of it, the more extreme the SJW anti-GamerGate tactics become. People see the tactics of the SJW and start seeing their slander/libel for the giant lie that it is. People see that supporters of GG aren’t the misogynistic monsters that the SJWs paint them as, and that if anyone is bigoted, it’s the SJWs (read: #NotYourShield). I have seen this time and time again. It has changed the minds of more people than the arguments that GG puts forth. GG knew early on that this would be a war of attrition, and being Gamers, they dug in and prepared for the long haul.

    It’s also worthy to note that GamerGate is not a movement. This is why there’s no “organization” (there is, just not in the traditional sense) and no leaders. It’s a scandal that sparked a consumer revolt. All the opposition’s weapons are made for movements. for organizations. It’s funny because almost nobody in GamerGate is interested in changing or protecting “culture” but just ensuring that the free market remains free, and yet will probably end up winning the “culture war” that was declared on them.

    Part of the magic of GamerGate is that part of the movement are what I’ve come to call “sane femenists.” I know, it’s a hard concept to swallow, but these people are actually willing to listen to reason, at least to some extent. These are people who, before #gamergate, literally thought the extreme left didn’t exist and was invented by the extreme right. Since investigating and subsequently supporting these people, I’ve found so many people that I wouldn’t talk to or associate with normally who I get along with just fine. I’ve discovered that people who go to 4chan aren’t terrible people, they just go to 4chan (and subsequently 8chan) to vent, troll, bait, etc. It’s quite a sobering experience.

    It’ll be interesting to see how this all ends, because while some call GamerGate “what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object” I’m actually seeing some progress. It’s incredibly slow, but it’s there. More and more, things like “Well you have some good points, but the harassment…” happen, which is what seems to be the “bargaining phase.” I’ve even heard tell of people trying to bribe GamerGate supporters away. Many, many, many people in the games industry have come up, (some anonymously, but verified as credible sources, others publicly) and said that GamerGate has a lot more supporters than those who speak out, who are afraid to because they might be fired if they go public. And every single one of them has said that GamerGate is working, even if it can’t be seen.

    Anyway, that took a lot longer than I expected to write, I hope it makes sense.

  56. Lyn87 says:

    The larger issue is the one of male spaces in society. Traditionally, becoming a man involved doing something that women didn’t do. Whether it was a ritual, or a test, or a walkabout, or whatever, the passage from boy to man excluded women. There were things that men did that excluded women. Men seem to need that, and we no longer have it. The military used to be like that. Yet when I was a 20-year-old cadet at the Benning School for Wayward Boys jumping out of C-130’s, my stick leader was a female Lieutenant we called Chewbaca (you can guess why). The cadre made sure every last one of the girls got her wings, too, whether deserved or not. Now the Marines are letting chicks into the Infantry Officer’s Course, although none have passed… yet.

    Is nothing sacred? And I use the term sacred deliberately. Sacred literally means “devoted exclusively to one service or use.” We used to understand that some things, or activities, or places, were to be set aside for men. Those things, or activities, or places allowed a man to define his place in society… they allowed a boy to know when he had joined the community of men.

    We no longer have such things, or activities, or places. Feminists first demanded that all spaces be open to females who want to be there. Now they demand that all spaces cater to the sensibilities of all females, no matter how irrational they are. The “reasonable man” standard has been replaced by the “most unreasonable woman” standard.

    But males have attempted to carve out male spaces anyway. And if we cannot exclude all women, we can at least not bow before the “V” in them. But even that isn’t enough for them. The gaming community attempts to take something that women generally loath with every fiber of their being and claim it. It doesn’t even exclude the occasional female who wants to join: it just refrains from catering to every hypothetical female who might want to participate every minute of every day. And even though the women pushing their agenda will not write the code, or buy the crappy games themselves, they cannot tolerate the thought that some man, somewhere, is in a place not subject to the FI. It’s sick.

  57. oldfashionedfellow says:

    greyghost has it right on this. Most of what we think of as God’s Church is a farce. It’s a social club and dieistic group therapy session. You’ll find no warriors for Christ among their ranks. No, a new church, with a new army must be built. But who will do it? It must come from those disaffected men, scattered about the countryside. We must begin to meet together, and to rebuild ourselves, that which generations before us left to rot. Apologies to our Roman Catholic friends, but I wonder how far Francis or his successors will have to go before you begin to question the veracity of the office of the papacy?

    As for the rest of us, we are only alone if we continue to think of ourselves as alone and remain alone.

  58. tz2026 says:

    If Wu’s house was invaded, she would do whatever was necessary to eject the intruder, so gamers and THEIR clubhouse should be no different. There are the feminized or neutral games, e.g. Farmville, candy crush saga, pet rescue saga, etc.

    As to Christians, Somehow the irony escapes them that they will one moment call for the death of a billion muslims – quite violently by soldiers, yet then criticize the combination of adrenaline and testosterone required in the form of virtually (in the literal sense) doing the identical thing.

    Finally, even the Atheists were fighting “Atheism-Plus”, e.g. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Thunderf00t#At_Freethought_Blogs – where thunderf00t was ejected because he objected to the “all men are rapists” meme. Scripture notes there will be some big surprises at the Bema Seat.

  59. technovelist says:

    You have to see this misandry. It’s beyond belief.
    fckh8.com

  60. Eidolon says:

    @Pro-Truth

    I see what you’re saying and I hope you’re right. But on the other hand, comic books are utterly infested with left-wing propaganda and they have a largely overlapping fanbase to video games. The comic book media is if anything much worse than the game press, but there’s no reason gaming media can’t get there.

    Again I think the thing that’s really held it back is that video gaming is the only medium where technology is a major factor. Sure, George Lucas hires some nerds to do special effects, but they don’t have much creative input. In video games we have Cliffy B and George Romero, actual technical people who also have a lot of say in story and ideas. Tech people seem more grounded in my experience. Most other media only require technical workers to do certain things for them, but in video gaming technology is in part the medium itself, so engineers must be there at all levels. Plus engineers are a lot of the audience.

    It’s hard to say. I worry that the development tools are getting good enough that people will be able to do away with the engineers being in charge and focus on artistes putting out lefty content, of the Gone Home variety or others, and the gaming media can steer all the attention to the propagandizing material they want everyone to see and away from what the consumers are mostly interested in.

  61. Piroko says:

    “But what else are men going to retreat to?”
    They won’t.

    The nature of communications technology and freedom of speech is such in this country that gamers… cannot lose. Like, literally, they cannot lose without the constitution being burned first and triggering a very real civil war.

  62. Mark says:

    @Dalrock

    Nice Post………

    “”However, gamers as a group have found the courage to stand up to feminism, and this kind of courage is something which so far Christians have been unable to muster.””

    I have been seeing quite a bit more on this subject in the papers and news sites that I read.Also,included in that crowd is the “Brogrammers” group.Good for them! Fuck the FemiNazis! What they do not understand is that the programmers are something like 90% male.The reason for this is simple……”Women are Illogical”.It is male dominated for a reason.They next thing they will be trying to do is take the major Mafia Families to court under the guise of discrimination,because they do not allow wimminz into their ranks as “Made Men”.
    Also,here in Ontario they want to get more women on the Board of Directors of Public & Private companies.The government wants to pass a law guaranteeing female influence on the companies.This is financial suicide!………http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/bundesbank-women-risk-taking_n_1385100.html………This is bullshit.There are VERY VERY few wimminz that I have met in the corporate world I respect…..let alone trust!

  63. BradA says:

    I am not sure if it was mentioned, but many of the “women” in gaming used to be “men” before they had an operation. Kind of puts another spin on things too.

  64. BradA says:

    Eidolon,

    It doesn’t matter what they put out if no one buys it. That ultimately controls the money and people will stop buying tripe that merely tries to send a corrupt message.

    The same tools that allow the SJWs to make games also allow others to do the same, just as YouTube has opened a wide range of videos. The conclusion is far from foregone, though it will probably be a mess as things play out.

  65. BradA says:

    Lyn87,

    The board game community has more than its share of SJWs and those who lean that way. I suspect this is because so many have enough money to do this in the first place. Something like BGG.CON is still largely male, but it is not a surprise to see females. Many are of the extra large size, but some are not.

    The problem is that any area is going to somewhat reflect the overall society and we have become so fat and happy as a society that our prosperity has led us down the stupid path in many areas.

  66. evilwhitemalempire says:

    “gamers as a group have found the courage to stand up to feminism”
    ——————————
    Socon men should be SO ashamed.

    They really should be.

    If socon men had half the ball sack that those ‘manboys’ had there’d be no feminism.

    Period.

  67. Pingback: This far you may come and no farther. | Truth a...

  68. infowarrior1 says:

    @Eidolon

    These are the non-SJW infested gaming sites:
    http://gamergate.me/approved/

  69. Deansdale says:

    “three pieces of advice most ‘sphere sites give are to start hitting the gym, stop masturbating to internet porn, and stop playing video games”

    Funny how feminists/women are attacking all three: gyms, porn and now gaming are all battlegrounds for them in the gender war. Come to think of it, feminists attack everything.

  70. Pingback: Male spaces and gamergate - Crowhill Weblog | Crowhill Weblog

  71. Neguy says:

    I am not a pacifist and I do believe that Christians should be more bold in the defense of the faith. However, those of us who are Christians cannot adopt the tactics of the world in order to “win”. When they punch, punch back twice as hard may be a philosophy that works for Mike Cernovich, but it is anti-Biblical.

    Paul is very clear that we should never repay evil for evil but instead overcome evil with good. And never take our own vengeance but “leave room for the wrath of God.” In a letter to churches undergoing persecution, Peter said to consider the example of Christ, who though being reviled, did not revile in turn, while suffering he uttered no threats, but kept entrusting himself to him to judges righteously. Adopting the tactics of the world is ultimately self-defeating.

    We need to be vigorous in standing up for the truth and seeking the approval of God rather than man. This means being willing to suffer even unto death, something I certainly won’t claim I have faith sufficient to pull off.

    But ultimately that’s what it comes down to – faith. The only rational reason to not respond in kind to evil is faith that God is sovereignly in control of events. Ultimately the future of the West is not dependent on SJWs or the outcome of a purely worldly struggle, but on the sovereign decrees of God. In that light we should feel confident obeying God’s injunctions in our own behavior. The outcome of the struggle is not, ultimately, on our shoulders. God will judge the world: “Vengeance is mine; I _will_ repay.” That should bring great confidence.

    We also have the ultimate weapon that the world does not: prayer. That’s how I’m choosing to engage in this struggle. I write about that but it’s important. Prayer is foundational to everything we do as Christians.

  72. PokeSalad says:

    “Come to think of it, feminists attack everything.”

    That’s because feminists have built nothing of value, and are incapable of building anything of value. Societal parasites.

  73. Sisyphean says:

    The funny thing to me is that the ‘attacking women’ charge and the ‘anti corruption of game ratings’ are really the same thing. The women know that to have a chance against men they need to corrupt the system in their favor but the men know that a corrupt system is inefficient and produces sup-par games.

    Men and women say ‘fair’ and mean two totally different things. To the gamer men ‘fair’ means that you got a fair shot regardless of the color of your skin or whether you have a vagina, that people judged your WORK. To women, people never judge your work, they judge YOU, so if there are fewer female developed games succeeding it must be because people don’t want the women, not because the games suck. So for the women fair means everyone’s work shows up and makes money and nobody is left out. The quality of the work is irrelevant, what matters is that everyone gets a piece of the pie.

  74. Novaseeker says:

    I am not a gamer, per se, because I simply do not have the time to be — other things are more time-consuming and pressing/interesting. I do fire up a game every now and then, but really in a year my total gaming time is probably 20 hours or less over the course of the entire year.

    However, I do understand gamers somewhat, both because in the past I did game a bit more (in my 20s, way back when), and because over the years since I became more busy with other things, the cumulative experience of keeping a toe in the pool has kept me exposed, ever so slightly, to the world of gamers.

    Here’s the thing about gamers: they like to win. They like to compete, they like to fight, and they like to win. This is what drives *many* of them. They are, many of them, *fiercely* competitive in their gaming. Yes, many are nerds and geeks, many can’t bench-press their own weight, many are losers with women, many are this and that, but they are very competitive in gaming and have a very strong will to win in that context. GamerGate is taking place in that context — in the context of games. They aren’t fighting about anything outside of gaming — how games are designed, how games are reviewed, and so on. And because it is inside the realm of gaming, it is inside the area in which these guys are fiercely competitive, and in which they have a very strong desire to win.

    That’s also why they’ve been “winning”. They are in a PvP fight. And they win those — at least the diehard, hardcore gamers do. They generally don’t care if women want to game, but they do not want the games to be designed differently, and they also have a long, long running war with the gaming press (which has long been considered way too cosy with the industry it covers). GamerGate just blew up both of these concerns at once.

    I don’t think it’s directly applicable to the broader issues we are discussing here, however, because most Christians aren’t dedicated to “the win” in the way core gamers are, nor are they anything close to being as fiercely competitive, or ruthless in their comfort with using any means necessary to win.

  75. Farm Boy says:

    So what would games “more attuned to women’s desires” look like?

  76. Phillyastro says:

    Other men worry about the repercussions on them or their family if they dare speak out to the feminine hivemind. Gamer groups follow this advice from Jesus:

    Matthew 6:25
    “Therefore I tell you, so not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes?
    26 Look at the birds of the air; they do no sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they are?
    27 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?”

  77. feeriker says:

    Women were complaining about the fact that games are oriented to guys. And xonsequently they want the game makers to alter the games that they create. One demand is to make games oriented to women. Since there is effectively no barrier to entry in making and marketing a game, women should make and market their own games oriented to women. Off you go ladies.

    The problem is that most women have about as much understanding of economics as they do of cause and effect (i.e., none). Any non-dimwit would have intuitively understood by now that the reason there are no video games in any significant number that are oriented toward women is that there is no market for them. Counterintuitively, methinks the feminista SJWs understand this, which is why there has been no serious effort by any of these mysterious female techno-entrepreneurs (the holy grail is an easier find) to market any such games. The SJWs are attempting to assert the force of the State because they know full well such nonsense will never sell won its own merit.

  78. earl says:

    “three pieces of advice most ‘sphere sites give are to start hitting the gym, stop masturbating to internet porn, and stop playing video games”

    It’s along the lines of doing something in real life instead of living in our head’s fantasy land.

    Or as most of us know fantasy land…living in the blue pill.

  79. Farm Boy says:

    Perhaps Zoe Quinn should release a sequel to Depression Quest, one that might be useful. How about “Sammich Quest – Making the Perfect Sammich”?

  80. Michael Neal says:

    Catholic Answers is a key ingredient in the smoke of Satan

  81. Farm Boy says:

    Or as most of us know fantasy land…living in the blue pill.

    But the gamer fantasy land is more fun. And cheaper to boot.

  82. Boxer says:

    Somewhat off-topic, but hopefully amusing. America’s most famous single mom, who dumped the father of her latest (future dysfunctional idiot) sprog, now in relationship with a convicted sexual predator with a history of child abuse, gets her millions-dollar contract yanked.

    http://defamer.gawker.com/tlc-cancels-honey-boo-boo-over-moms-child-molester-boyf-1650253643/+laceydonohue

  83. Gamergate is ostensibly about journalistic ethics. Supporters say they want to address conflicts of interest between the people that make games and the people that support them. In reality, Gamergate is a group of gamers that are willing to destroy the women who have invaded their clubhouse.

    They essentially lost the argument already. When you are invaded, you destroy the invaders..

  84. Novaseeker says:

    So what would games “more attuned to women’s desires” look like?

    Female protagonist, a la grrl power from movies, but not sexpot (see development of Lara Croft over the years in games, with recent version being the feminist one)

    Less “T&A” eye-candy character models for women portrayed in games, smaller boob sliders, less skimpy outfits, more female characters who look like normal women and not porn stars, etc.

    Games that have plots that are not simplistic, man saving women etc, but complex, emotion-driven plots with romance and so on.

    Among other things.

  85. So what would games “more attuned to women’s desires” look like?

    Gossip Quest..

  86. Get the Tingles Quest
    Alpha fux / Beta bux Quest

  87. earl says:

    “Catholic Answers is a key ingredient in the smoke of Satan”

    Smoke of Satan is in everybody. It take a light to shine through it.

  88. BradA says:

    I would rather give up women than games. And I am not even a hard core gamer, I am just not good enough for that.

    Some play golf, fish or whatever, I play games. Anyone who says that is not acceptable is an idiot.

  89. earl says:

    It’s good for men to have another outlet besides women. Have two or three. Then you have the ‘abundence mentality’.

    Church and the gym for me. If a guy likes video games to blow off steam that’s cool too.

  90. Farm Boy says:

    but complex, emotion-driven plots with romance and so on.

    “The Sims” on steroids?

  91. Farm Boy says:

    see development of Lara Croft over the years in games, with recent version being the feminist one

    What is “feminist” about the latest one?

  92. Tam the Bam says:

    As one (sad-sack white-knight) commenter on Mashable noticed ..
    “Why is it that as this thing grows the media seems to launch dozens of articles all at the same time that all say the same thing? The bigger we push back the bigger the media organizations get. How convenient that interchangeable articles all come out in the matter of a day. Seems like collusion to me. The thing we are fighting against. Originally it was just in game journalism, now it seems to have ties to major media.”
    You don’t say!??!1

  93. gdgm+ says:

    I’m also not a ‘gamer’ (though I do own and occasionally use a PlayStation) but I’ve found the different angles and concerns of GamerGate to be fascinating these last few months (it wasn’t supposed to ‘last’ that long, remember?). Dalrock’s OP is another angle I hadn’t seen before.

    I’d like to point out a couple of things. First, GamerGate actually HAS had some successes, which haven’t been reported on by the MSM (mainstream media) but in ‘alternative’ sources.

    Incredibly, Gamergate Is Winning — But You Won’t Read That Anywhere In The Terrified Liberal Media

    As noted in the link, some businesses are re-evaluating, and even removing advertising from, game journalism sites that have taken the anti-GG / pro-SJW approach, in response to consumer complaints from gamers.

    To tie back to Dalrock’s OP, here is my quick and rough analogy:

    – Gamers enjoy playing and follow games. Yet, when they turn to some Game Journalism sites, their preferences are denied, and others recommended by the press instead (i.e. ‘Social Justice Warrior’ tropes). Why?

    – Christians read and seek to follow the Bible. Yet, when they attend some Churchian services, their view of the Bible is denied, and others recommended by the clergy instead (i.e. the ‘Mutual Submission’ interpretation of Ephesians). Why?

    Finally, there’s one additional positive that some are overlooking, as expressed on alternate boards such as 8chan and parts of Reddit: So apparently the “liberal media” was real all along. I guess I owe conservatives an apology. mea culpa

    There seems to be more in action here than just ‘social justice’. Ever MSM article is GG=Misogny, and no interest at all about how this got so far out of hand, and why talk about the problems got totally squelched.

    I always knew the media was corrupt, but this has shown me that it actually is ideologically liberal. These people sincerely believe in manipulating the media to advance their political agenda, and that scares me more than the financial corruption.

    Now compare those comments to this blog’s past critiques of people like Focus In The Family’s Glenn Stanton, seen as ‘mainstream’ by many, yet promoting the ‘Heroic Single Mom’ trope. Hmmm. . .

  94. Dave says:

    Farm Boy:

    Since there is effectively no barrier to entry in making and marketing a game, women should make and market their own games oriented to women.

    This has always been my surprise too. Why in the world would women keep crying sexism, discrimination, etc when a man creates something, and wants to run it his own way? If you don’t like it as a woman, create your own. Problem solved. This goes to Mormonism (where a man creates a religion, and makes it almost an exclusively a male affair), to golf tournaments (again, created by men, and primarily for men), to video games.
    Create your own, women; market your own stuff; do the hard works; and create your own rules. Exclude men, if necessary. I bet you, no man will complain.

  95. Cane Caldo says:

    @Dalrock

    Some things are too important to give up without a fight. Perhaps if the gamers ultimately prevail, Christians will be inspired and decide that Christianity is also worth defending from the feminist onslaught.

    Were that they were discrete groups!

    Where my posts on the prioritization of entertainment (NFL, games, film, etc.) fail to convince, may God bless yours to succeed.

  96. Novaseeker says:

    What is “feminist” about the latest one?

    They smushed her boobs down (look at the older models vs the most recent one) and also tamed her clothes. Made her look more “normal”. Also she’s even sassier, in a YGG way, kind of like a Sandra Bullock esque character now.

  97. Novaseeker says:

    “The Sims” on steroids?

    No, because the Sims was basically designed for women from the get-go (the original working title was “Dollhouse”). They want the games *guys* play to be redone to be more woman-oriented, more emotional, more like TV and less like video games.

  98. Jakeithus says:

    “Female protagonist, a la grrl power from movies, but not sexpot (see development of Lara Croft over the years in games, with recent version being the feminist one)

    Less “T&A” eye-candy character models for women portrayed in games, smaller boob sliders, less skimpy outfits, more female characters who look like normal women and not porn stars, etc.”

    The part that the SJWs don’t get is that Gamer’s aren’t opposed to any of these things. They don’t mind playing a game with a strong female protagonist, and they don’t play games primarily because of T&A. To a Gamer, all of these things are incidental to the one question that means anything…”Is it a good game?”, primarily from a game play perspective

    What Gamers understand is that as soon as you start shifting the question away from “Is this a good game?” to “Does this game have enough strong female representation?”, the quality of games will suffer. Diversity checklists shouldn’t be mandated in game development, and developers shouldn’t be automatically punished or criticized because of the choices they make in areas not directly related to the game itself.

    Gamers want developers to be free to focus on creating good games, with the market as the ultimate decider. We should be allowed to rescue Princess Peach from Bowser for the hundredth time without having to justify ourselves to SJWs, in the same way we can enjoy shooting aliens as Samus without having to feel smug for supporting a strong female protagonist.

  99. fringed says:

    Perhaps instead of professional pastors, we outta have professional gamers running the churches?

  100. I don’t understand why feminist women want to be part of the world of “gaming.” It just doesn’t make much sense to me. Gaming is purely competitive, entirely meritocracy based. There simply is no space for feminists and their reach for government oversite for authority to equalize the arena. Any attempt to do this means that all the other games simply exit that arena and choose another arena.

    More to the point, these people are nerds. I know I was when I gamed. Feminists don’t want to be around nerds. All they want is resources provided by the nerds (by way of tax increases) that nerds must pay to government so the feminists can get their life of Julia.

    I mean what is the endgame here?

  101. Hank Flanders says:

    I guess I don’t really understand what it would mean for GamerGate to “win.” Are we saying that if GamerGate wins that feminists will be kept from altering the gaming landscape? I don’t see what difference it makes what the feminists do in this regard. If people like the games, they’ll buy them. If they don’t, they won’t. If people like the publications which tout social justice and equal representation, they’ll support those publications. If they don’t, they won’t. If some game manufacturers take the politically feminist bait and make games more feminized, then that would just be an opportunity for a competitor to come along and give the market what it really wants, wouldn’t it? Unless anyone is actually trying to involve the government to enact legislation to alter video games to include more and better depictions of women (or whatever it is feminists want), which I haven’t heard about yet and doubt it would pass if they did, I don’t really see what the overall controversy is here.

  102. Novaseeker says:

    I mean what is the endgame here?

    Isn’t it obvious?

    The endgame is turning video games into another vehicle for expressing the hegemonic viewpoint, like TV and movies do today. The “concern” is that the viewpoint/stories/perspectives/priorities and so on in games do not reflect what we see in TV and films closely enough, and are kind of off the reservation, off the script, and that is a “problem” because too many men spend more screen time in front of them than in front of the approved indoctrination programming. So games must be made to follow suit. Again, the point is that if games are not made subject to the same programming/indoctrination, they will foster a “dangerous subculture” that is dangerous precisely because it is “off script”.

  103. Dalrock says:

    @Cane Caldo

    Where my posts on the prioritization of entertainment (NFL, games, film, etc.) fail to convince, may God bless yours to succeed.

    Thank you. I thought this touched on one of your themes, but I was thinking more along the lines of harmful risk aversion.

  104. Honeycomb says:

    Just had a dad at work talking about his son’s motivation (re: the lack thereof compared to his when he was young).

    The topic include this quote .. “My wife and I are talking about my sons motivation and his spending habits.” And I told her “If he spends 500 dollars on a game console and doesn’t get a girl pregnant … then he is 500 dollars ahead if you ask me.”

    I’m just a fly on the wall … Of course he followed this up with “A Vay’Jay’Jay is a very toxic place.” LOL .. literally and figuratively no doubt … just another day at work around nothing but men.

    So, in summary, I am hearing a dad recommend video games to girls. Maybe we are making progress … with the blue-pillers.

  105. Farm Boy says:

    Any attempt to do this means that all the other games simply exit that arena and choose another arena.

    That is a feature, not a bug.

    Speaking of Microsoft, they are using the MS strategy of “embrace and pollute”.

  106. Odd that a man is leading the charge of crazy women into remaking video games.

    Not really. The simple fact is: girls don’t like computers. Anything as logic-driven and emotion-free as a computer is like garlic to a vampire for them. They’ve never wanted anything to do with computers: not playing them, coding on them, building them, anything. They’ll use one grudgingly for work, if they have to. Turn it into a communication device for chatting with their friends, let them play dress-up with the case, and give them a mindless game with shiny colors and social features, and they’ll play with that some, but that’s as close as they want to get.

    For a boy with a technical bent, on the other hand, a computer is like a robot buddy, an erector set with every possible shape, and the world’s biggest assortment of army men, all wrapped up into one. Finally, something that always does exactly what its instructions say! Put a 1 in here, out comes a 0 over there, every single time; you can count on it, and build bigger things from that. Learn to write some code, and it does exactly what you tell it to, as long as you get it right.

    So it’s really not that big a surprise that a “woman” who’s involved in the industry enough to have some influence is actually a man. You pretty much have to have a Y chromosome to enjoy computers, just like you have to have two X’s to enjoy Dirty Dancing.

  107. Farm Boy says:

    If the big US companies get armtwisted too much, indie or international developers will get the business.

    Indeed, the barriers of entry are low. What they might do is twist the arms of distributers like Steam. That would be the bottleneck where they could have influence.

  108. Pingback: Explaining the compulsion. | Dalrock

  109. Farm Boy says:

    I wonder what LGBT games would look like? I am sure that the SJWs would want games to be as friendly to LGBT interests as TV is.

  110. Cane Caldo says:

    @Dalrock

    Thank you. I thought this touched on one of your themes, but I was thinking more along the lines of harmful risk aversion.

    The themes are inextricable from each other.

  111. PokeSalad says:

    “Somewhat off-topic, but hopefully amusing. America’s most famous single mom, who dumped the father of her latest (future dysfunctional idiot) sprog, now in relationship with a convicted sexual predator with a history of child abuse, gets her millions-dollar contract yanked.”

    Not off-topic at all. Further proof that, even with a million-dollar contract in the balance, the woman is a slave to the tingle.

  112. Nova,

    Isn’t it obvious?

    No it isn’t, to me.

    The endgame is turning video games into another vehicle for expressing the hegemonic viewpoint, like TV and movies do today.

    But then… no one buys it. Its like the E.T video game released by Atari in 1983. They have giant landfills in New Mexico with those games that no one bought.

    Gamers bought DOOM and DIABLO because it was purely violent and competitive, the anti-feminist world. So lets say feminsts turn video games into their viewpoint. Great. No one buys it. Someone else will build another game that doesn’t and that will sell.

    I wont buy a feminist-centric video or board game. I wont buy it and would never play it. I don’t even think feminsts want to buy them. so I mean… who cares that they are complaining. Let them run to government. Unless they have congress create some kind of ACA tax/mandate forcing me to buy a game I don’t want (the way I have to buy health insurance I don’t want nor would I ever use.) I don’t see how even the most feminist politicians could get behind that idea.

    Cail,

    For a boy with a technical bent, on the other hand, a computer is like a robot buddy, an erector set with every possible shape, and the world’s biggest assortment of army men, all wrapped up into one. Finally, something that always does exactly what its instructions say! Put a 1 in here, out comes a 0 over there

    …and God said to computers, that your desire will be for your USER and HE will rule over you.

  113. Novaseeker says:

    I wonder what LGBT games would look like? I am sure that the SJWs would want games to be as friendly to LGBT interests as TV is.

    Mass Effect series, and pretty much all BioWare games, have that already it seems (same sex relationships in other characters, also possible as a player character). The SJW’s want more of that, and less of CoD and WoW.

  114. Novaseeker says:

    So lets say feminsts turn video games into their viewpoint. Great. No one buys it. Someone else will build another game that doesn’t and that will sell.

    People will buy it. Look at Mass Effect. What you do is you mix the progressive messaging in with some shooty-shooty, like you would mix medicine into dog food. It all goes down the chute at the same time. Like Hollywood’s Marvel movies that have tons of “testosterone action” mixed together with snarky, moxie-laced YGG female characters who beat up men who are twice their size with ease, and are constantly snarking at the male protagonist for being a brainless idiot. Men see these in droves.

    That is what they want games to be like — all like Mass Effect.

  115. I wrote elsewhere that “The entire Gamergate mess with Social Justice Wannabes… I mean, Warriors, trying to impose their Flavor-Of-The-Month causes on gamers strikes me as a total waste of leftist resources. Seriously, what group of people is least likely to interact with women, much less harass, rape, or oppress them?

    Many gamers have been treated like shit most of their lives and just want to be left alone. If they’re busy gaming, they can’t be out oppressing anyone, and when they do go out, they’re pumping money into the economy buying games, the same money which is taxed and funneled to the SJWs. So the SJWs have steady income and no hassle as a result of gamers gaming, but they wanna sledgehammer that golden goose anyway.”

    For some gamers, it’s the one thing they got left, and no Sassy Grrrlz who can’t even hold a joystick are going to take it away from them.

    I would have commented sooner, but I missed this post yesterday. I was out at the gaming club.

  116. Nova,

    Like Hollywood’s Marvel movies that have tons of “testosterone action” mixed together with snarky, moxie-laced YGG female characters who beat up men who are twice their size with ease, and are constantly snarking at the male protagonist for being a brainless idiot. Men see these in droves.

    Men don’t go see these movies because they want to watch the YGG character. She means nothing to them. She’s an asterisk, a sidebar, nothing more.

    More to the point, the YGG character is not the plot. Anytime she IS the plot, the movie fails miserably.

    Its like the NFL. There are 32 franchises, only 29 of them have cheerleaders. And these girls are nothing more than glorified models. It’s just pom-pom cheer and they aren’t even really paid. They volunteer. They do it for the social opportunity of being around 53 multimillionaires. If a feminist came along and insisted that they get paid real money AND she succeeded in getting government to have the authoirty to enforce this, the NFL teams would simply disband all 29 cheer squads because…. they add no value to the product on the field. They are not the plot of the game. The fans don’t even look at them.

  117. Morgan says:

    Here’s the the thing, gamer gate is entirely about journalistic ethics and the lack there of. Journalists don’t want to report on the lack of ethics in their community, so they jump on this misoganist angle so they can say, no matter how bad we are, they are worse. It doesn’t excuse the behavior in the first place.

    As to the gamer community being all about men, that’s true. A bunch of guys got together and created a community and an industry for themselves. They weren’t trying to be popular, or mainstream, or appeal to anyone outside this community, and they were scorned for most of their lives. And then this group, it happens to be women and they happen to be feminists, they same group that largely ignored them in real life, suddenly want them to change their community and culture, built up over decades, to accommodate their precious feelings, philosophies, and politics. Not so the women would buy more video games, but so they wouldn’t feel so bad that the men were playing these video games on their own.

    So imagine for a second these feminists come into your home and decide they want your violent action movies you like to be more like romantic comedies, and they were going to enforce any action movies being made to be romantic comedies. Wouldn’t you draw a line in the sand?

  118. paddy says:

    Not sure how the SJWs would tame South Park: The Stick of Truth . Which I played a bit, and frankly it was hilariously impolitic.

  119. BradA says:

    > ”Is it a good game?”

    That is not the sole focus. GTA would not have done as well without the edgy components. Eye candy is all the rage today. It is possible that graphics have reached a stage where you can’t go as much farther, but gamers still want a visual experience as well.

    I remember seeing a distinct lack of solid gameplay years ago and I have seen it missing many times since, even in very popular games.

    Note the eye candy means good graphics, not necessarily anything specific, but that can be hot female characters, violent scenes, etc. See what sells.

  120. Novaseeker says:

    @IBB —

    It doesn’t matter that they are not the plot. What matters is that they are constantly there. If they become constantly there, that portrayal becomes accepted, eventually expected. And it seeps in. It’s a very clever way to program people.

  121. Farm Boy says:

    What matters is that they are constantly there. If they become constantly there, that portrayal becomes accepted, eventually expected. And it seeps in. It’s a very clever way to program people.

    That is how it worked with LGBT acceptance as done through TV shows.

    At least the LG part, that is.

  122. Novaseeker says:

    That is how it worked with LGBT acceptance as done through TV shows.

    Right. It doesn’t have to be “about gays” like Brokeback Mountain. As long as you have a goodly, over-representative amount of them in the general environment, with a subplot here and there, the goal of normalizing and changing mindsets is achieved, and the viewer/gamer is none the wiser.

  123. Jakeithus says:

    >”That is not the sole focus.”

    Of course not everyone is the same, and while I think gameplay is ultimately what’s at the core, it is not the only aspect of what goes into making a good game. While having good eye-candy is always going to be popular amongst Gamers; for every Crysis you have a Minecraft or a Dwarf Fortress. It’s the same with story, for every Bioshock on one hand, you have a Counter-Strike on the other. What connects Gamers is that they find the games they enjoy fun to play, the other factors are peripheral at best.

    By “Is it a good game?”, I mean “Is is fun to play?”. Photorealistic graphics can be fun, but doesn’t automatically make it any more fun than something in 8-bit. What Gamers object to is being told “Having fun is not enough, you need to care just as much about possible misogyny within your games”. Fun games will get played regardless of other factors, so to see gaming journalism go out of their way to promote “games” that are by every typical metric not fun (Gone Home, Depression Quest) over ideological grounds rubbed a lot of Gamers the wrong way.

  124. Kyo says:

    “2. SJWs sometimes tip their hand as far as how unreasonable (one could say “entitled”) they can be. Recently Ubisoft got a bunch of idiots including gaming journalists complaining because there aren’t going to be playable females in the new Assassin’s Creed. ”

    Eidolon, have you noticed how in the Assassin’s Creed games, whether you play as a stealthy assassin who only kills his targets, or a thug who wantonly kills city guards and bad-guy henchmen with abandon, every person you kill is a man? The SJWs are obsessed with being able to play as a female assassin — who presumably would kill dozens if not hundreds of men, and no women. Imagine a game where a male killer kills dozens of women, and no fellow men? That game would’t even make it past the plannins stages.

  125. Farm Boy says:

    “games” that are by every typical metric not fun (Depression Quest)

    Why would anybody call a game Depression Quest?

    By the name it sounds like you are trying to become depressed. Who would want that?

  126. Eidolon says:

    @Kyo

    To be fair Ubisoft was talking about not having female characters playable in multiplayer, and in MP you do kill the female assassins played by other people. But I see where you’re going with that.

    It’s presumably just a CYA maneuver for Ubisoft that not one of the people you are supposed to kill in all the AC games (I’ve played all before AC3, anyway) are female. In fact I think you couldn’t ever kill a woman without being punished for it (it would always be a civilian and thus punishable).

    In a way it’s actually kind of downplaying the significance of women to suggest that assassinating them would never be important or useful (if one is part of a group of assassins who believe the end justifies the means). Feminists often seem not to realize that women have always had power in every patriarchal system and they pulled the strings of many a ruler (see Obama, Michelle).

  127. MarcusD says:

    “Catholic Answers [Forum] is a key ingredient in the smoke of Satan”

    And they don’t even realize it.

  128. Yoda says:

    women have always had power in every patriarchal system

    Admit that they will not.

  129. Imagine a game where a male killer kills dozens of women, and no fellow men? That game would’t even make it past the plannins stages.

    In the 1980s video game Double Dragon, you use karate and kick to death opponents in the task to rescue your girlfriend who is taken hostage. At the begining she is punched in the gut, thrown over the shoulder of the bad guy, and you can see the “v” of her white panties under her miniskirt. So then you go out there and go through a series of tasks in beating to death, his henchmen. Part of the task is to either whip/kick to death, a couple of female opponents. They come on the board with whips. You kick them to the ground, grab their whips, and whip them with it until they are dead.

    I don’t think it would be possible (today) to make a game where these patriarical scenarios happen.

  130. Gunner Q says:

    I think GamerGate will win simply because the game industry is composed of young men, unlike most industries which are dominated by Baby Boomer-type leaders who’ve drunk the Koolaid for so long they think “separation of Church and State” is in the Bible.

    BradA @ 12:53 pm:
    “I remember seeing a distinct lack of solid gameplay years ago and I have seen it missing many times since, even in very popular games.”

    You too? I’m not alone! I consider myself a gamer but keep playing my games left over from the ’90s and early 2000s. Better to play X-Com and Geneforge for the millionth time than these interactive movies even if it does require jury-rigged emulators. Constantly upgrading hardware to run games with nothing but graphics to offer is what finally drove me away from the hobby.

  131. Constantly upgrading hardware to run games with nothing but graphics to offer is what finally drove me away from the hobby.

    I play Caylus on-line but never against a computer opponent, against humans. I need the capacity to “think” that a computer opponent can’t do unless the programmer built in some massive artificial intelligence to create a truly deep search engine, think of every possible scenario which is impossible. You don’t see that in many turn based video games where randomness doesn’t play much of a part. Souping up the graphics doesn’t soup up a game where the best players are required to think and react.

  132. Mark says:

    @Dalrock

    Whoa!………….Deja vu?……..or copyright infringement?………….but,you have to admire the audacity….L*

    http://returnofqueens.com/social-justice-warriors-are-infiltrating-world-of-warcraft-gamergate/

  133. SirNemesis says:

    The war against gamers will be just as successful as the war on drugs. You can’t force a disaffected community into submission when it has nothing left to lose.

  134. I was thinking more along the lines of harmful risk aversion.

    Funny, I plopped the italicized Christian over to the harmful risk aversion post and pasted it into a short comment before I read any of the comments following this post.

    It had me thinking about 2/3 through the post, so gamers push back and screw the consequences, and Christians volunteer to change all the worship centers wall paper to pink bacause of momma bein’ happy and all that crap. SERVANT LEAD.

    (Aside, Did anyone catch the Judge in Dallas who was a spokesman during the early news coverage peak of the Ebola issue? When referring to one of the nurses, the first I think, his praise he lavished on her included that she was selfless and helping etc etc, she was “SERVANT LEADING”
    It was so incongruous all I could figure, and his manner and countenance buttressed this in my mind, that he is likely a deacon or elder at a large established Baptist church, was raised in that or a very similar church, and his brain is wired to, by habit, never say the word leader without servant in front. He even looked a little shocked when he said it as if he was thinking , crap…where’d that come from, its sort of N/A to this scenario.

    Maybe his wife rights his speeches.

  135. Tam the Bam says:

    Any faithful public servant wishing to “lead” would not prioritise their emotional wants or those of their kin above public safety and would, no matter how grudgingly, see the benefit of returning travellers from those plague-hit regions being quarantined for a few weeks on return. Most particularly, anyone who’s been upfront and personal with the epidemic out there, and also the absolute necessity of quarantining those in contact with any returnee who becomes infectious, i.e. medics.

    Even a vaguely altruistic person, if in possession of the facts would in fact volunteer for such a detainment, it doesn’t have to be in a concentration camp. Heck, the Prez. could commandeer a couple of country clubs and staff them with volunteers, all-expenses-found (who get a similar bennie-in-kind subsequently, while being screened for the lurgie).

  136. Anonymous Reader says:

    Empath, I did not catch that statement the first time, but it is like a neon sign since you pointed it out. “Servant leader” has become another indicator of a feminized man.

    True leaders in history indeed have served their followers. Several of the great generals of the ancient world were noted not only for personal fighting along side other men, but caring for wounded men with their own robes. It is claimed that Frederick the Great of Prussia never ate until all men under his command had been served food.

    The modern Churchian “servant leader” is a groveler, not a server. There is a difference.

    Returning to the OP, the Social Justice Whiners demand that everyone grovel before them and their ever-changing “standards”. It is no coincidence that the SJW’s increasingly resemble Mao’s cadres during the Cultural Revolution, either. They are lacking the power to engage in physical harm, for now, although SWATting is a bit closer to that than people think.

  137. Anonymous age 72 says:

    Some years ago, my youngest son used to play video games. His favorite game required him to have a female partner. The instant the game started, he’d plug her in the middle of her forehead. He would laugh and laugh as if it were the funniest thing ever. He said, “She never sees it coming.”

    And, he noted his scores went up when he did plug her.

    I told him he was a sick man. He didn’t care.

  138. Tam the Bam says:

    Naturally, the Red Guards overstepped their licence from the Overseers of the Poor, started interfering with the workers at work and the army in their barracks, and were most dismayed to find themselves kneeling in the ditch.

    So unfair, after all their zealous struggles against whichever unsuspecting and incomprehending individuals had happened to be indicated as witch of the week, and therefore in dire need of violent repression and coercion (for the good of the People/Party/their eternal souls whatever, won’t somebody think of the cheeeldrenn? ).

    Which is where I suspect YMY is leading the SJW cretins.

    Or, like 1984, will they instinctively sense the extreme personal hazard of messing with the entirely unreasonable and nothing-to-lose proles, and only seek to discipline Outer Party cadres (i.e. undergraduate level and above, short of the Ruling Class/Inner Party)?

    Either way, go long Butterkist.

  139. A♠ says:

    Dalrock,

    I couldn’t possibly disagree with this statement more:

    “gamers as a group have found the courage to stand up to feminism”

    What “courage”?

    1} They, as a group, number more single men than any organization but cloistered clergy, so the “pink whip” is completely ineffective. They’re not getting laid now, so what’s there to lose? At least Christian men get a perfunctory sex act with their wives twice a year or so which is a lot to lose from THEIR perspective. (Intermittent reinforcement is a VERY powerful tool. )

    2} They spend (collectively) LIFETIMES yelling insults across the digital landscape as a hobby, so “matching wits” with SJW’s comes easily. Even if GamerGaters win (which, for the record, I hope they do), everyone still looks bad. No high-ground was really taken anywhere because no one listens to those taking it. As I said on my twitter – https://twitter.com/whiskeyandashes/status/525394476077166592

    3} The majority of them (note: even 51% is a majority) are exactly the stereotype. Ok, maybe someone reading this will be the hang-gliding, model-banging, race-car-driving, high-power attorney, party-throwing playboy exception, but that’s simply NAGALT. My point being: this is, for a lamentably large number of them, all they have in life; a junkie will fight to the death for another fix and a caged animal will die clawing. Christian men, for the most part, have friends, a social network, other hobbies, more responsibilities, et al. So they aren’t cowards, per se, rather they aren’t quite desperate yet (although, I admit, they should still stand up and do something).

    4} As we in these parts are fond of saying: flip the script. Where were these guys when the rest of us were being invaded? Playing video games. Again, defending one’s homestead isn’t bravery – it’s simply survival.

    In closing, permit me to be clear:

    1} It’s great that there is pushback; this conflict should occur. But to speak as though the sword of righteousness was wielded and wielded well is far off the mark.

    2} They have every right to defend themselves and their pursuits and should do so.

    3} They should be supported but don’t be shocked if (and I do say “if”), when needed, they don’t return the favor.

    4} I’m with the GamerGate crowd. But only because the Truth rests there and I, as a Christian, am called upon to be Christ-like.

    “In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”

  140. Lyn87 says:

    A♠ has a limited point:

    Gamers aren’t taking ground: they are are just fighting to preserve what’s theirs… which is more than the churches have done on balance.

    And no, they aren’t going to return the favor: but maybe if churchians had spent more time reaching out to beta, delta, gamma, and omega men rather than shaming them and tossing them into the meat grinder – all the while bowing down at the altar of the “Almighty V” – those guys might have been fighting when the battle for the churches was still going on rather than killing pixelated aliens and staying out of a fight between two groups that both viewed them with disgust.

    The nerdy guys A♠ talks about have been largely discarded and disregarded for most of their lives. The culture told them they were second-class citizens (nay… second-class subjects), most women told them they were unworthy of affection, and the church and most SoCons told them to “Put Down Your Controllers and ManUp!” They just withdrew into the only place they were welcome, and now the SJW’s are joining the likes of Bill Bennett and Marc Driscoll in attempting to shame them. But the SJW’s are a more serious threat to the gaming community than the Bill Bennett’s and Marc Discoll’s ever were – they went after gamers on their own turf, whereas the SoCons could be safely mocked as false moralists and technophobic windbags.

    Could the gamers be allies? Of course they could. But there are two things to remember:

    1) The First Rule of Allies is this: Don’t shoot at them!
    2) Souls are more important than any of this.

    On further reflection, let me add a third thing:

    3) It is not necessarily true that “they aren’t getting laid anyway.” To say that is to buy into the false ideas any man not on the “Pink Plantation” or the “PUA Plantation” is an awkward loser basement-dwelling virgin. Not so – after 50 years of feminism, girls are so easy now that a lot of those guys get some action at least occasionally. Even when I was at the height of my gamer-geekdom I had access to the “V” – not all the time, but once in a while. I didn’t partake because I was a Christian, but it certainly was not unobtainable… and that was in the days before “Hook-Up Culture” and long before “The Big Bang Theory” made geeks “cool.”

  141. BradA says:

    Lyn87,

    Most gamers would have nothing to do with church no matter how it is packaged. Most don’t want to be responsible to anyone beyond themselves, an idea pervasive in our society. You may argue that it also applies to those in the modern church, and you may be right, but few would be drawn even by the strong consistent preaching of the Word. A better foundation would be built and that is worth pushing for, but it would not be what you seem to be indicating.

    Anon72, those kinds of games are wicked. They are just as bad as the pink versions the SJWs are trying to shove down our throats. That is a major challenge today. Standing for what is right won’t make you popular with just about anyone.

  142. desiderian says:

    “Most gamers would have nothing to do with church no matter how it is packaged. Most don’t want to be responsible to anyone beyond themselves, an idea pervasive in our society. You may argue that it also applies to those in the modern church, and you may be right, but few would be drawn even by the strong consistent preaching of the Word. A better foundation would be built and that is worth pushing for, but it would not be what you seem to be indicating.”

    Please. The highest praise among the gamer crowd is “based” as in fact-based. This at the same time Churchianity has shied away from the factuality of sin and Christ’s saving work on the cross, hiding His Light under a bushel of abstractions, and pushing the blatant lie of cheap grace just like the media straight-up lies about the gamers.

  143. desiderian says:

    Lyn87,

    “maybe if churchians had spent more time reaching out to beta, delta, gamma, and omega men rather than shaming them and tossing them into the meat grinder – all the while bowing down at the altar of the “Almighty V” – those guys might have been fighting when the battle for the churches was still going on rather than killing pixelated aliens and staying out of a fight between two groups that both viewed them with disgust.”

    Amen. Their (our, actually) lives are the wages of affirmative action allowed to run completely rough-shod.

    “And no, they aren’t going to return the favor:”

    I wouldn’t be too sure about that. Best make sure our own house is in order, just in case.

  144. 3} They should be supported but don’t be shocked if (and I do say “if”), when needed, they don’t return the favor.

    This would make more sense if gaming was an organization or a Church. It’s not; it’s a group of people with a common interest, and gamergate is members, a very small percentage of the members, of that group collectively condemning journalists for lack of integrity and feminists for forcing politics into video games.

    Remember, there is no organization in gamergate. Even the gamergaters at this point couldn’t care less about who supports who; they just want to accomplish their goal. The specific supporters are basically irrelevant. A lot of leftists have joined the gamergate crowd.

    If the feminists for life stand outside of an abortion mill with me and hand out pamphlets and respect my prayers, that doesn’t mean I owe them a favor later. I’m not going to support that equal pay act that they keep trying to shove through Congress just because they decided to stand up for the truth for once. So I don’t expect otherwise liberal gamers to turn around and support a Christian cause just because they helped them on this one issue. That’s asking too much, especially when “they” is a very small percentage of Christians anyway.

  145. Lyn87 says:

    BradA writes to me:

    Most gamers would have nothing to do with church no matter how it is packaged. Most don’t want to be responsible to anyone beyond themselves, an idea pervasive in our society. You may argue that it also applies to those in the modern church, and you may be right, but few would be drawn even by the strong consistent preaching of the Word. A better foundation would be built and that is worth pushing for, but it would not be what you seem to be indicating.

    I agree with all that except for the last clause: you misunderstand what I’m indicating, and I can see how I could give the impression you got by overstating my point. I’m not suggesting that gamers – en masse – would be rock-ribbed Christians if the church was doing its job. Indeed, Jesus Himself tells us that “… strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” Most gamers reject the gospel for the same reasons that most of humanity does. My point is that churchians have been busily blaming and shaming non-alpha men for a very long time. Rather than offering beta, delta, gamma, and omega men a place to go to experience salvation, freedom and joy, too many churches only offer them scorn and a chance to become a “servant-leader” to a banged-out prodigal daughter… with emphasis on the “servant” part.

    Yet in the end, it is those secular beta, delta, gamma, and omega men who make up the gaming community who stood up to the same SJWs that co-opted the churchians with such ease. Would that churches had stood up for the Gospel as effectively as a bunch of nerds are standing up for Grand Theft Auto.

  146. Yoda says:

    Yet in the end, it is those secular beta, delta, gamma, and omega men who make up the gaming community who stood up to the same SJWs that co-opted the churchians with such ease

    With churcians sex involved it was.
    With gamers sex irrelevant it was.

  147. bo jangles says:

    I tend to think of christianity as unmasculine. It very apparent compared to prechristian vikings. The beard is meant to fake a large jaw so cur it off. A man shouldnt be too concerned about his appearance. Where as much clothes as possible to hide the body. Be humble. No wonder the vikings just rolled over england at first.

  148. JDG says:

    I tend to think of christianity as unmasculine.

    Real Christianity is very masculine. That’s why feminist and their allies work so hard to undermine it’s teachings. What you see espoused so commonly is a misrepresentation of Christianity. It is so prevalent that even genuine believers are duped into adhering to false teachings, especially new believers. Some, as they grow in the truth, see the lies for what they are, but others seem to prefer not to grow.

  149. Mark says:

    @Dalrock

    Nice Post!

    “”In reality, Gamergate is a group of gamers that are willing to destroy the women who have invaded their clubhouse.””

    L*……….and her point is what???????……..*shakes head*…….damn them gamers!

  150. Tam the Bam says:

    No wonder the vikings just rolled over england at first.
    well I’m the last man to hold a torch for Sasann, but the reason the weekings were such a pest was their ability to flee at the first sign of serious opposition, cutting and running in their excellent, part-Saami derived vessels to where no mortal man could follow. Like Apaches. Or like having choppers. On land they tended to get seriously fucked over by proper armies, if their ships were somehow unavailable. Even by the likes of the Picts or the Irish. Monks, farmers, not so much ..

    It was quite the fashion for young danish warriors in particular to be clean-shaven, and the english used to whinge about this, along with their faggy habit of deliberately washing their bodies, in warm water (!) and combing their hair daily, nits or no nits, as they reckoned it gave them a PUA advantage in bewitching the local Saxon slappers into not putting up even a token show of resistance. Oh, and dressing too flash, bright colours, silks, toting too much bling, and using gay smelly stuff, exotic unguents, to the same end .. some things never change.

  151. BradA says:

    Lyn87 (and desiderian),

    I would agree that it is idiotic that many churches slam men for being men. I have heard more than my share of anti-gaming stuff. I just ignored it because I like games and find no compelling reason a game is bad while hunting or fishing are fine.

    I just saw you making the point that gamers would roll into the church if we just reached out to them. It seems you were not making that point, so my argument with it was not properly aimed.

    I doubt the guy on voice chat the other day talking about getting tattoos all over his body in the future (literally) would be drawn to most churches at all. I did get some interesting insight into the modern culture listening there, but I have no naive notion that most are any more reachable than any other group.

    Of course speaking Biblical truth would do more to draw people than the watered down pablum most preach today. The anti-male stuff doesn’t help either.

  152. Lyn87 says:

    BradA,

    The fault was mine – upon reading your response yesterday I realized I had given the impression that gamers would have been crowding the pews if churchians hadn’t been so anti- beta, delta, gamma, omega all these years. Obviously that would not be the case, and thanks for catching my unintentional hyperbole.

    But I suspect we both agree with the old maxim, “If you subsidize something you’ll get more of it, while if you tax/penalize something you’ll get less of it.” Churchians have been penalizing non-alpha men for a very long time (and the men and children who are victims of frivolous divorce), especially for the past 50 years. The degree to which those men have stayed out of the churches is unknowable, but it is almost certainly not zero. What we do know is that those men are more effectively fighting the incursions of feminists/SJWs than many churches. And of course what is infinitely more tragic is that souls are being lost, not that social battles are being lost.

    I, like you, have had the great misfortune to interact with some of these guys on voice chat and written fora. It’s depressing – as a group they’re as hostile to Christianity as anyone else is. I think that’s largely because we have been raising a couple of generations to be hostile to Christianity, though. The public schools are rabidly anti-Christian in both culture and curriculum. Mark 9:42 (ESV) says, “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.” When God judges the nations we’re going to have a lot to answer for.

  153. desiderian says:

    BradA,

    “I doubt the guy on voice chat the other day talking about getting tattoos all over his body in the future (literally) would be drawn to most churches at all.”

    The weekly AA meeting at my church is better attended than any event other than the largest Sunday worship, and its gaining on that. Plenty of tattoos there.

    It’s not “the Church” that’s keeping them away, it’s what the Church is preaching, or afraid to.

  154. BradA says:

    I don’t think that guy was close to an AA meeting desiderian, but who knows?

  155. Pingback: Outside in - Involvements with reality » Blog Archive » Chaos Patch (#34)

  156. MV says:

    Late to the party, but still: Some humble anonymous concerned citizen on 4chan took trouble to explain GamerGate to conservative Christians.

    ” Feminism needs you to stop playing those misogynist videogames, man up and go rip a few unborn babies out of their mothers’ wombs”

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