A tragic tale of strippers, hamsters, thugs, and baby mommas.

Lisa Fogerty at Cafe Mom spins a mother thinking with her genitals as an act of kindness:

But plenty of women make that call to get involved with men who aren’t law-abiding citizens. Some of them are able to see the good inside of that person — and sometimes they’re right and deserve respect for giving a person who made a mistake another chance at love. Other times, they discover that person is incapable of changing his bad ways.

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135 Responses to A tragic tale of strippers, hamsters, thugs, and baby mommas.

  1. Pingback: A tragic tale of strippers, hamsters, thugs, and baby mommas. | Manosphere.com

  2. Anonymous Reader says:

    But, but, but, tingles aren’t real! There’s no such thing as a woman who pursues a thug! And it can’t be in any way her fault, because Special Snowflake Strong Independent You Go Girl Woman!
    And he was only arrested 5 times, no convictions! Only one or two arrests for a violent crime! He’s sooooooo sexy, she deserves to be happy!

    Game explains the entire sad story, including the death of a child. I could predict that, yep, she tried to help cover up what happened. White Knighting cannot explain it. Feminist theory has to spin a lot of webs of “false consciousness”, etc. to explain it. Standard “Man Bad Woman Good” churchianity has to deny any agency to women to explain it. I leave the theology to those competent in the field.

    The great feminist notions of an endless dance of totallly equal partners in and out of every self-actualized woman’s life were always nonsense. At best that stuff works for trustafarians, but even they find it fails in the end. For people with poor impulse control, feminist theory has been a disaster.

    Sigh. In the comments thread so far only one “dont judge” has shown up, but it’s cafemom so I’m sure more will be along sooner or later.

    Politics etc. are all very well, but this is where it ends up: ruined lives, or worse, dead children.

  3. Gunner Q says:

    “But plenty of women make that call to get involved with men who aren’t law-abiding citizens.”

    Good thing we Christian men aren’t law abiding citizens. We ooze homophobia, misogyny, judgmentalism and intolerance with every slurpy step… every one of us a potential rapist!

    How long until we’re painted with such a thick, black brush that hot chicks start tingling for us? Or is she talking about God’s law, not Man’s?

  4. Zelcorpion says:

    Yes – giving a Serial Killer a chance is always a noble deed. He might not kill you and your child. And if he does – I guess he has succumbed to his inner demons. The woman is an angel for having given him a chance.

    A world where an axe-murderer gets more fan-mail than a fireman who has saved children from a burning building is one which is decidedly shifting to mating patterns of caveman times. It becomes purely instinct driven destroying civilization as we know it.

  5. Lyn87 says:

    If the sexes were reversed:

    Hypothetical: a man whose child was in his care (let’s say it was his weekend to have his child), has a job working as a bouncer in a strip club. He lets his girlfriend, a crystal-meth addict with a long rap sheet including violent felonies, care for the kid while he’s at work. Let’s also say that the kid’s mother is a pure-as-the-driven-snow type who has previously noticed that the child has had “unusual” injuries after being in said meth-head’s care – injuries the father downplayed. Then one day the meth-head brutally kills the kid, and they both lie about the nature of the “accident” until their story comes apart.

    Does anyone here think – even for a moment – that we would be reading articles about how some men just love too much, and want to give violent meth-head women a “second chance?” That his pain over the decision to leave his child in the care of a violent meth-head is all the punishment he deserves?

    Me either. The same people who are calling the stripper a victim in this real case would be howling for head of the man in the hypothetical case… if the sexes were reversed.

    Rest In Peace – Little Man.

  6. JDG says:

    and sometimes they’re right and deserve respect for giving a person who made a mistake another chance at love.

    I see the “love” archetype of the new “morality” is alive and well. It’s interesting to note that women deserve respect for playing the whore in this modern paradigm.

    Other times, they discover that person is incapable of changing his bad ways.

    In the new model, thug behavior is not bad unless the woman and/or her herd deem it so, Actually it’s bad, but its not BAD bad (like rape rape). It doesn’t become BAD bad unless the woman or herd feel displeasure.

    Irony abounds.

  7. GS Jockey says:

    @ Lyn87: “If the sexes were reversed…”

    Shack–You nailed it exactly.

    GS Jockey

  8. JDG says:

    OT – I have been unable to access the Spearhead for DNS related reasons for the last couple of weeks. Any ideas from the IT guys here?

  9. JDG says:

    Never mind. I figured it out.

  10. Johnycomelately says:

    The fact she covered up for the thug implies that at least he’ll get booty calls in prison.

  11. Gaza says:

    “Some of them are able to see the good inside of that person…”

    Of course. The unique qualities of female vision (intuition) are just so highly attuned to inner goodness that it can see goodness where your average man only sees the rap sheet and body art and potential for physical aggression. Just one more way in which the female form is so much more evolved.

    This is of course unfortunate for the men embodying the more obvious external indicators of (potential) goodness, since women lack the spectral capacity to see it (not their fault.) Thus the goodness must be converted into a wavelength within her visible spectrum. Which, conveniently, includes actions, or resources, or other exchangeable units of his production she desires or deems worthwhile (visual acuity favors motion.)

    So these men with surface qualities indicating goodness can either vibrate with excess production and puff their chests and fan their tail feathers or they can go thug and cater to her innate and much more consistent and reliable ability to see the inner good.

    We are seeing which is easier as the latter plays out at some multiple of the former, with a meaningful percentage of men who can neither thug-out or alpha-up in terms of status/provisioning embody the ‘worst’ of both: apathy and indifference with a good measure of dickish and aggressive behavior. The incentives are clear. “Good” is meaningless.

    Luckily many women continue to evolve as they age, so they can eventually learn to see the external good later on, after they’ve explored and experienced all of that inner good.

  12. Johnycomelately says:

    “The unique qualities of female vision (intuition) are just so highly attuned to inner goodness that it can see goodness where your average man only sees the rap sheet.”

    Replace goodness with ‘erotic capital’ and your on to something, tingles are gong to tingle.

    “Women lack the spectral capacity to see it (not their fault.).”

    It’s odd that they can see it when material provisioning is a scarcity.

  13. Bee says:

    Boyfriend X gets her pregnant, 14 months later she is with boyfriend Y who beats kid to death.

    This is why Christians that focus on alleged DV among churchgoers need to find some new hobbies. Most child abuse and partner abuse happens among non-married couples that hook up for varying amounts of time.

  14. greyghost says:

    I just had this conversation with my daughter less than a week ago. She has a neighborhood friend of hers whose mother told her that she is the way she is because she has no father. The mother is technically a widow but in reality is a gina tingle for thugs that managed to get himself killed doing his thug thing. I told my daughter when you date and marry you don’t just go for what makes you feel good you get a man that will be a good father for his kid. It was her mother’s fault the child doesn’t have a father. Because she selfishly want after what was exciting to her and not what was good for the well being of a home. Gina tingle rules as it always has. Catering to feminism as made the good man a non tingler for lack of a better term.

  15. Anonymous Reader says:

    This also demonstrates the important statistic on child safety: a child is safest with father.
    Crimes like this should be Exhibit A: in the argument for mandatory father custody in all cases, married or not. Children are at the least risk with their father, and at greatest risk with sole mother custody.

  16. JDG says:

    Catering to feminism as made the good man a non tingler for lack of a better term.

    The old system at least gave a man some standing in western society for being a husband and/or father.

  17. galloper6 says:

    Let me guess, the thug was also beating the “mother”.AND had no job or interest in getting one.
    The deadbeat boyfriend with “poor impulse control” seem to be standard issue for strippers.

  18. freebird says:

    Excellent comments here.

    I have seen the red pill take a deep hold here in the last couple of years and that spawns some hope.

    On a side note,women really like a good hair yanking?

  19. infowarrior1 says:

    ”Just one more way in which the female form is so much more evolved.”


    Exactly who is more evolved?

  20. embracing reality says:

    Nice find, the article is a stellar example of the mind of the modern feminist indoctrinated woman. Assumes female moral superiority independent of the plain facts right in front of her. It’s no shock these women can be complicit in hiding the murders of their own children, these women can walk into abortion clinics complicit in the killing of their own babies. They can justify anything as long as it’s convenient for them to do so and find plenty of support from the sisterhood.

  21. Lovey says:

    Abuses and abusers come in different forms…destruction is still the worst kind of ‘charity’ case…..liked those who confess they judge these kinds of perversions rightly …it is OK if it is soundly found to be the same as the Biblical God’s ‘judgment’ so that we can know how to measure ourselves as well as others. Knowledge and application teaches …eventually IF we continue in effort to learn and apply what has been god breathed…yes BIBLE is God’s Word …despite what ‘scholar/skeptics ‘ profess….they know not what spirit they are OF!

    The world is in deep doodoo! ….SURPRISE! ..it’s .what happens when we ignore the Lord’s good pleasure to offer His Word to live by!

  22. Once again, the Truth stands in plain sight for all to see:

    Women will put up with anything to be with a Tingle Inducing man.

  23. David Shaw says:

    This quote from Ms Fogarty’s article shows how bent she is in distorting the truth so that things come out her way: “We don’t know if she had any idea Sawyer could ALLEGEDLY be capable of this kind of violence….” [Emphasis added.] ¶What in the world is that word “allegedly” doing in that sentence? For Ms Fogarty the main purpose of the word is to throw another layer of fudge over the moral decision process.

  24. Spike says:

    In the 1990s anthropologist Daniel Amneus wrote several books including “The Case For Father Custody”, which is available on line and a must read. In it, Amneus points out the stark statistical case in which a child in a single parent (mother-led) family is at least 6 times more likely to suffer violence, sexual abuse or both at the hands of the mothers lover or his associates compared to an intact family. Amneus concludes,
    “The biological father remains the best protector of the child as he always has been”.
    Where Amneus got it wrong was that his figures were far too conservative. Six times more likely is now probably 26 times more likely, and it isn’t as if feminists and their political enablers haven’t had a long enough time to look back at the social damage wrought by their experimentation. We know it, they know it. It’s just that we accept the facts while they are wilfully blind to them.

  25. Lyn87 says:

    I provided links to two Daniel Amneus books earlier today in another thread. Here they are again:

    The Case for Father Custody

    The Garbage Generation

    I wish I could absolve the birth father in all this, but he had unprotected sex with a stripper and fathered an illegitimate son into that sort of environment – what the hell did he think was going to happen? Marriage? White picket fence? She’s a working stripper! Clearly he was thinking with his genitals as well. There are no blameless adults here. Everyone failed this kid, and he paid with his life. Having said that: of the three adults in this little tragedy, the father seems to be the one least at fault. If Andres Bravo had been with his father he would probably still be alive.

  26. John Nesteutes says:

    Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. (‭Hebrews‬ ‭13‬:‭4‬)

    And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death. (‭Leviticus‬ ‭24‬:‭17‬)

    And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. (‭Leviticus‬ ‭20‬:‭10‬)

    Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. … For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. (‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭17, 20‬)

    And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1‬:‭7-9‬)

    I pray the adulterous, fornicating mother and murderous boyfriend find Christ’s salvation before the final judgment.

  27. Dave says:

    I know this might sound alarming, but I believe that feminism is the biggest enemy that has ever plagued humankind. I am serious.There is nothing that feminism touches that does not turn to ash. Whether it be our laws, our jobs, our play areas, our educational system, our politics, our families, our military, and even modern day research.Feminism, like a polluted stench, fills the air and threatens to suffocate everything and everyone. Feminism threatens to make the world uninhabitable for everyone.
    Take research, for example. This is an extremely important area that is absolutely important to human progress. Its value demands a disinterested and utterly unbiased process to help us know how well or how badly we are doing, and to suggest ways forward. As feminism takes hold of research, the process becomes an agenda-laden joke, which is not only likely to stunt genuine growth, but also leads us in the wrong direction.

  28. orion2 says:

    And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. (‭Leviticus‬ ‭20‬:‭10‬)

    Could someone please explain this to me?

    Whats the reasoning?

    “I mean, yeah, they live right next to each other and they saw each other each day and she IS kinda hawt, NO damnit, he has got to die too !!!”

    Why the “even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife” bit?

    What difference does it make?

  29. sonofdeathswriter says:

    From the Article:

    “If the allegations against him are true, Sawyer deserves the book thrown at him for killing an innocent infant. But his mother, despite her poor decisions in life, does not deserve the same fate.”

    She deserved the same fate. She lied and the police exposed the truth.

  30. Dalrock says:


    I wish I could absolve the birth father in all this, but he had unprotected sex with a stripper and fathered an illegitimate son into that sort of environment – what the hell did he think was going to happen? Marriage? White picket fence? She’s a working stripper! Clearly he was thinking with his genitals as well.

    When men have sex with strippers, it is because they can see the good in them. Sometimes they are right and deserve respect for giving the stripper a chance at love. Other times they find out that the stripper can’t change her ways.

  31. AD1984 says:


    Do a Google search on Hebrew poetry, and look for Anadiplosis (the Wikipedia article is good – en.wikipedia.org/wiki/biblical_poetry ). It’s a poetic technique for reinforced emphasis, where a phrase at the end of one clause is repeated at the beginning of the next. So Lev. 20:10 is saying the same thing twice, to make it perfectly clear that both were to be punished for their sin.

    Of additional interest:
    A very common technique in Hebrew poetry is parallelism, with clauses comparing or contrasting ideas running back-to-back.

    For examples, consider:
    Gen. 2:23 – “This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh.”
    Pr. 29:18 – “Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the Law, happy is he.”

  32. Lyn87 says:


    She deserved the same fate. She lied and the police exposed the truth.

    I believe the proper term is “Accessory after the fact.” It is a crime, and when the original crime is murder, it’s a very serious crime indeed. I don’t expect her to do serious time, though.

    I have little doubt that her lawyer will point to her boyfriend’s violent tendencies to allege that she only covered for him because she was afraid of him. Women’s groups will fall in line behind her, the prosecutor will decide that the man is a monster (which is undoubtedly true), and that the mother was only acting out of fear (which is nonsense, but why bring a case to trial that comes apart if the jury contains even one white knight or feminist? Prosecutors don’t like losses on their records). And one more case will go into the stats that shows that men are violent beasts and their female accomplices are victims themselves, whose only crime is that they “love the wrong men”… because they (being so pure), could not comprehend the depths of male depravity until it was too late.

  33. Lyn87 says:

    Good one, Dalrock. I love to play “Reverse the sexes.”

  34. HawkandRock says:

    She lied to protect the brutal murderer of her own son. Just let that sink in for a moment…. Degenerate doesn’t even begin to cover it. Those who refuse to call her acts evil are at best cowards and at worst plainly at war with Logos.

    Tingles uber alles (read: feminism) leads to nothing but savagery, squalor and death. Sadly, the perfect public policy for our culture (of death).

  35. Thinkn'Man says:

    Women’s worst moral failures always wind up “re-branded” as virtues qualifying them for immediate sainthood, if not deification.

  36. Thinkn'Man says:

    Sorry, ” womens’ “

  37. Conversely:

    When women have sex with good men, it is because they can see the hood in them. Sometimes they are right and get a great rogering and other times they have to part with just-good-man. These times they have found that the good man can’t change at will to hood-man.

  38. Dalrock says:


    Good one, Dalrock. I love to play “Reverse the sexes.”

    Thanks. Sometimes it is the best way to shine a light on the absurdity. I made much the same point in this post a few years back.

  39. We are living the in the world of Snake Plissken who said, ” Sad story. You got a smoke? “

  40. The Brass Cat says:


    When men have sex with strippers, it is because they can see the good in them. Sometimes they are right and deserve respect for giving the stripper a chance at love. Other times they find out that the stripper can’t change her ways.

    He was looking for a stripper with a heart of gold!


    I believe the proper term is “Accessory after the fact.” It is a crime, and when the original crime is murder, it’s a very serious crime indeed. I don’t expect her to do serious time, though.
    I have little doubt that her lawyer will point to her boyfriend’s violent tendencies to allege that she only covered for him because she was afraid of him.

    ^THIS. Statistically men receive 60% longer sentences than women for the same crime. In this case, as an accessory, I wouldn’t be surprised if she gets probation. It is like when women are on trial it is assumed they have no moral agency, and what is actually on trial is the question of her moral agency, i.e. are there any men available to blame?

    The search for a man to blame can go to extremes. Recall the allegation that Casey Anthony’s father had molested her… the trial became about that for a while.

  41. Eidolon says:

    As terrible as her actions were, is she not still better than a woman who goes for an abortion? She is only guilty of foolishly putting her child in a dangerous situation because she put her interests ahead of the child’s. Women who have abortions intentionally kill their children just in case the child might inconvenience them, even though there are waiting lines for adoptions. I’m not at all sure that this woman is more deserving of jail than they. They would defend the ones who killed their children just as much.

    It’s depressing that this sort of story is more tangible to us because it was a “real” child, a child we could see, a child whose life is allowed to count because the mother deigned to designate it as a person. And the millions and millions of innocent children who are killed because the mother refuses the title of human being to them (as if it were hers to bestow) slip by, unnoticed, unremarked, unloved.

  42. Boxer says:

    As terrible as her actions were, is she not still better than a woman who goes for an abortion?

    No. This bitch is worse. At best (if you can call it that) an abortion snuffs out a potential life. This was a human being who was allowed to breathe and hope (even if they were infantile hopes, they still count). He was probably conceived as a pawn to manipulate his biological father, and brutally murdered by one of the friends of his mother, who didn’t care enough even to hire a qualified babysitter.

    The people who think abortion is a normal part of everyday life are the same irresponsible nitwits who argue that this scroungy wimminz is blameless. They care nothing about anyone — not even their own biological offspring. People like these are the fountainhead of most of this society’s problems, and in a better world they wouldn’t be allowed to conceive or marry, much less be the sole guardian of a child.

  43. Gunner Q says:

    Lyn87 @ September 17, 2014 at 10:08 pm:
    “I wish I could absolve the birth father in all this, but he had unprotected sex with a stripper and fathered an illegitimate son into that sort of environment – what the hell did he think was going to happen?”

    It could easily have been protected sex. Condoms and such have a failure rate. I think of sex with strippers/prostitutes as more of a suicide attempt than anything else given the astronomical rates of STDs. Porn is bad morality but good damage control.

    I can’t blame the genetic father as strongly as I probably should. Maybe he was a black-hearted PUA, maybe he was a Beta with no other options. Neither excuses his actions but one can sympathize with the latter… and what influence could he have possibly had anyway? Frankly, her being a “sex worker” is irrelevant to the story; even the best of modern fathers have seen their children suffer fates like this one. The divorce, the thug moving in, his children abused in the very home he once bought for them. Disgusting. It’s past time for God to intervene.

    Dave @ 3:32 am:
    “I know this might sound alarming, but I believe that feminism is the biggest enemy that has ever plagued humankind.”

    The Bible’s way ahead of you. Garden of Eden, Solomon’s Fall, Jezebel, Revelation’s Babylon and all that.

  44. Boxer says:

    Thinkn’Man sez:

    Women’s worst moral failures always wind up “re-branded” as virtues qualifying them for immediate sainthood, if not deification.

    Sorry, ” womens’ “

    Women have passable moral compasses and the ability to delay gratification. This is a “wimminz”.

    Regards, Boxer

  45. silverpie says:

    «Sorry, ” women’s “»

    Speaking just grammatically, you had it right the first time–“women’s” is the correct plural/possessive form. Or am I once again on the outside of an inside joke?

  46. Lyn87 says:


    I thought about that, which is why I chose the precise words I did at September 17, 2014 at 10:08 pm. We know next-to-nothing of the birth father, but we know a couple of things and we can surmise a couple more.

    We know he had sex with a stripper, and – even if it was not unprotected – it was at least insufficiently protected.

    We also know that she has exhibited a history of poor choices in major areas of her life (she’s both a stripper and an unwed mother with dangerous tastes in men).

    We can surmise that she’s probably relatively attractive or she couldn’t get a job where people pay to watch her take her clothes off.

    Given the situation, the birth father is likely to be either a punk himself, or some schmuck who’s ruled by his huevos. I think the former is more likely, since a hoochie-momma like Miss Garcia might have sex with a thirsty beta if the money was right, but the fact that she chose to carry his child to term implies that he was the kind of men whose child she wanted to bear. She endorsed him in what may be the most profound way a woman can – she bore his child – and an endorsement by her raises serious red flags about him.

    So… he probably wasn’t going to be in the running for “Father of the Year” either, but it seems obvious that little Andres Bravo would have been far better off in his care than hers. But that will not surprise anyone here: as a general rule, the best place for children is with their biological fathers.

  47. Luke says:

    Not mentioned here so far that I’ve seen is the possibility that the biological father did not know that the eventual mother was a stripper. Imagine they met at a loud (nonstrip) bar. If he didn’t ask her her job, she’s likely not going to volunteer it (and except as a potential negative, how many men really care about a woman’s job?). Likewise, early on in a relationship, it’s easy enough for someone to lie about what they do to pay the rent. Only in the absolute bottom strata (think bad trailer park) is being a stripper a job with any status. (What man here takes a woman he’s dating to his workplace in the first week, anymore than he pushes to visit hers that quickly?)

  48. Anonymous age 72 says:


    Hot off the presses. Census reports lowest marriage rate since 1920. Some bad numbers in this article, including the 1920 numbers were actually much higher than now.

    Something about 50.3 rate, which looks like that percentage of over 18s married. Need to follow a link to the PEW article, since the article seems filled with ambiguous statements.

    Looks to me like the lowest percentage of over 18’s married ever. Need to study it more.

  49. Lyn87 says:

    I’m not sure why you’re pointing that out, Luke. Whether he knew she was a stripper is irrelevant. Either he knew she was stripper and knowingly had unprotected* sex with a woman of that character anyway, or he didn’t know and had unprotected* sex with a stranger. Neither gets him off the hook for his share of the blame.

    Anyway, Andres Bravo was a “brown” baby in a “White” country… isn’t his death – while tragic – a net gain from a WN perspective, especially if his black killer gets life in prison or the death penalty?

    * I chose to use the word unprotected because, even if they intended to prevent pregnancy, they didn’t try very hard.

    By the way, the stripper baby-momma is a confirmed hottie. She’s a pig, but she won’t do serious time – or probably any time at all. There’s no way will twelve jurors will reach a unanimous verdict to send a woman who looks that good to prison for lying to protect a dangerous man.

  50. elovesc34 says:

    The mother deserves a public flogging and the murderous boyfriend deserves to be shot, drug and hung, while the twit who wrote the article needs a new line of employment.

  51. Luke says:

    Lyn, if the woman lied about being a stripper (and almost all of them lie about their very names), then she could have just as easily have lied about being on birth control, having had a tubal ligation/hysterectomy, etc. (And, please don’t waste all our time with “but-but-but hee shudda uzed uh conn-dumm”, as if those have no serious, often crucial drawbacks in actual use.)

  52. craig says:

    Why the “even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour’s wife” bit? What difference does it make?

    Judaism is full of distinctions between in-group and out-group requirements. The way I read it, it is heading off the argument that the punishment is merely for liaisons with outsiders (e.g., the traveling salesman), by explicitly including those within the community. Familiarity is not a mitigating factor.

  53. Thinkn'Man says:

    Derp.. womens’ = plural possessive?
    Calling Mr. Language Person… please respond!

  54. CaptainObvious says:

    @ orion2

    To understand that you must understand the biblical context of the word “neighbor” in the old testament. Neighbor refers to people who live adjacent to the hebrew but not necessarily a jew. For example the samaritans were viewed this way by jews and they were neighbors. Jesus even had a parable about this in the new testament.

    Traditionally for jews they tended to look down upon their neighbors who were not jewish and the rabbis even made several amendments to the mosaic law in their oral tradition which absolved them from committing criminal acts perhaps like adultery against them. In their thinking, because they did this to a non jew then they are not really breaking the law.

    So in effect when it says in leviticus that “even your with your neighbors wife” it is basically saying that they are definitely NOT absolved of anything and are still an adulterer/adulteress and will be put to death according to the law/

  55. Dalrock says:

    @Anon 72

    Looks to me like the lowest percentage of over 18’s married ever. Need to study it more.

    I saw that on Drudge this morning. I think you have it right, although I haven’t read the study either. But I’m fairly confident that it is merely the incremental continuation of what is represented in this chart. Namely, people are taking longer to marry, are less likely to remarry after divorce, and some are even electing not to marry at all. The challenge of course is teasing out how much is from which choice, because all show up as an increase in the percentage of people not currently married.

  56. Just Saying says:

    Mom of Baby Allegedly Beaten to Death by Boyfriend Isn’t to Blame

    Of course she isn’t…. Women are NEVER to blame for anything they do… They are like mentally retarded children – they cannot be held accountable for their actions. Of course, the key is to use them for their bodies, and their inability to make logical decisions… Other than that, they are like children – never held accountable for anything they say, or do…. Just accept it, and figure out how to make it work for you… Too many men think there is more to women than that – there isn’t.

  57. Lyn87 says:


    I’m not sure why you’re suggesting I could only offer a stuttering rebuttal (oh wait… yes I can – I’m a dumb-ass half-breed). But the point remains – I’ve managed to make it to the fifth decade of my life without impregnating any strippers (or anyone else for that matter). Not only that, but it really wasn’t very hard to avoid – as I have mentioned before, I had a subordinate who had been a stripper (although her looks had gone downhill quite a bit by the time she showed up in my unit). I’m not sure because I never tried, but I’m fairly certain she would have been “good-to-go” had I expressed the slightest inclination. (She did offer to “show me the goods” once after she had moved to another unit… I declined.)

    In fact, I don’t think I know anyone who has knocked up a stripper. It takes a special kind of stupid to do that.

  58. Luke says:

    Sigh. Lyn, that’s just the way a stereotypical woman “debates”, figuring that every single observation of central tendencies is aimed at her personally. I don’t know you; you might well be worth putting up with (as part of the ~5% level of minorities that a natural nation can have, and not be damaged by).

    You’re also not responding directly to my earlier point that the absent father might not have been aware that the woman was a stripper. It’s not as if women ever lie about anything, after all. Lastly, I tried via ridicule to make your blanket 100%-always-applies opinion look stupid because I thought it was a stupid opinion. Your smarts and your ancestry — I’m only in position to know about either from what you post here, so reasonably can go by those, to a point.

  59. Lyn87 says:


    The point of the Parable of the Good Samaritan was not that Gentiles were neighbors to Jews while their fellow Jews were not, but that Gentiles were neighbors just like Jews were. To posit that Jesus was reducing the category of people who were neighbors is exactly the opposite of the whole point of the story – Jews already recognized each other as neighbors… He was telling them that everyone else is their neighbor, too. The penalties for adultery applied to everyone – and they were very harsh because adultery is very bad.

  60. Lyn87 says:


    So… now I debate like a woman… lol. Anyway, if I erred in figuring that your statement was “aimed at [me] personally,” perhaps it was because you were addressing me personally. In fact, the first word of your post was “Lyn” – and I’m the only Lyn here – so perhaps I can be forgiven for thinking you were referring to me. Crazy, I know. What was I thinking?

    As for this, “You’re also not responding directly to my earlier point that the absent father might not have been aware that the woman was a stripper.” In fact, that was exactly what I did. I’d actually be at a loss to make it any more clear.

    I confess to being somewhat mystified by anyone’s reluctance to level any criticism at the baby-daddy. Especially you, since Adolfo Bravo (the bio-father) is a black man breeding illegitimate black babies. He wasn’t to blame for his son’s death in the care of those animals, but his choices allowed a woman that he knew was bad (and whether or not he knew her specific vocation – he certainly knew that much), to bring an innocent child into the world.

  61. Luke says:

    All reasonable in your last post, Lyn87. I would only add to it that adultery by a wife is more devastating to a family than a husband’s, since only a wife’s adultery can bring cuckoldry (absolutely destroying the fundamental basis of the marriage) into a family, as opposed to something a husband, however venal can do.

    However, I’m not aware of any place in the Bible where God commands the Israelites to bring in entire non-Hebrew peoples from distant lands, and give them part of their own farmlands, vineyards, olive orchards, and housing. Liberal churchianity pro-immigration types commonly imply (or state) there is such a verse, but I’ve never seen it…

  62. Luke says:

    Lyn87 says:
    September 18, 2014 at 4:00 pm

    “I confess to being somewhat mystified by anyone’s reluctance to level any criticism at the baby-daddy. Especially you, since Adolfo Bravo (the bio-father) is a black man breeding illegitimate black babies. He wasn’t to blame for his son’s death in the care of those animals, but his choices allowed a woman that he knew was bad (and whether or not he knew her specific vocation – he certainly knew that much), to bring an innocent child into the world.”

    Except that as a practical matter, birth control, and thus conception in essentially any heterosexual relationship, is as a practical matter controlled by the female.

  63. Lyn87 says:

    Luke at 4:05. I concur to a degree. But adultery requires somebody’s wife. Let’s say I was a Jew in ancient Israel and my wife committed adultery with the next door neighbor. That act is destructive to my family – to say that her part in the adultery is more harmful than his part is to posit that adultery is worse if it involves a-woman-and-a-man than it is if it involves a-man-and-a-woman. It’s a logical absurdity – what it misses is that one man’s adultery brings cuckoldry into another man’s house. Whichever way we slice it, a family is destroyed and a husband is cuckolded. Both adulterers are guilty, and I have no problem leveling the same level of guilt on a man who has sex with a married woman than I would ascribe to the woman herself – it takes two to tango. PUAs are no different than sluts, and the unfortunate man-o-sphere tendency to excuse the inexcusable if it’s done by a man is no less absurd than the feminist position that women’s faults are somehow less serious than men’s faults.

    As for your reply at 4:00, I will reiterate what I wrote before: I have managed to make it into my fifth decade on this planet without impregnating any strippers (or any one else, for that matter)… and it wasn’t for lack of girls willing to spread their legs for me.

  64. Luke says:

    Lyn87, you said:

    “I have no problem leveling the same level of guilt on a man who has sex with a married woman than I would ascribe to the woman herself”

    Even if he was unaware she was married? (Even if he was, he had broken no vows HE swore to anyone, unlike her.)

  65. Opus says:

    I was looking at an old diary of mine; I was pulling a new chick or two most nights, (older women were phoning saying that I was the one, crazy ones were sending me large boxes of chocolate through the post, or offering to cast my astrological chart: angry husbands phoned too – I avoided them all) sometimes we merely snogged, sometimes it went further (you can see why I am so sceptical about the necessity for Game) but one thing I never worried about was contraceptives. Women were, I assumed, sensible enough not to have sex unless they were on the pill and most women were. I hated Condoms anyway.

    Perhaps that sounds crazy but that was how it was – it is only since AIDS that women have discovered that they dislike the pill – (not that AIDS is likely to affect them).

    Never met a stripper but I have met a few prostitutes and some did not use condoms: I assumed they knew what they were doing, and it seems they did.

    I would have been most put out had I been told I had fathered a child, or picked up an STD – I never did.

    Contraception is a female problem – their body; their choice.

  66. infowarrior1 says:

    Moral superiority combines with tingles and this is the result.

  67. Robin Munn says:

    @Thinkn’Man –

    Language guy here. Since “women” is the plural, “women’s” would be the correct plural possessive; you had it right the first time.

  68. infowarrior1 says:

    Actually it seems that those women are possessed of the savioress complex. Like they are Jesus Christ the redeemer of lost souls.

  69. Lyn87 says:

    I wrote,

    “I have no problem leveling the same level of guilt on a man who has sex with a married woman that I would ascribe to the woman herself.”

    To which Luke asked,

    “Even if he was unaware she was married? (Even if he was, he had broken no vows HE swore to anyone, unlike her.)”

    Let’s say you had an employee in a position of great trust. Now let’s say that that employee had a slutty girlfriend, and they decided together to take over your company by having your employee use his access to your business to deliberately steal everything you had worked for your entire life. And not just your physical property, either… they also took everything you love, and ruined the lives of your kids, and had the cops throw you out of your own house, and you still got stuck paying the salary of your employee for the rest of your life, even if it meant you had to live in poverty. Let’s also say that they both knew that you would have absolutely no recourse to recover what had been taken from you, and that if you even expressed some anger that you would be arrested. Would you consider the girlfriend blameless? After all, she wasn’t in a position of trust… she didn’t promise not to steal everything you’ve worked for your entire life. She didn’t say she wouldn’t ruin your kid’s lives, or have the cops evict you from your own house, or sue you for monthly payments for the rest of your life. Nope: that was ALL the fault of your employee. Right? I mean, really, they hatched the plan together, but she didn’t do anything to you. Right?

    Would you excuse her role in that? Would it matter to you if – although she knew that somebody was getting screwed over – she didn’t know that it was you in particular?

    This idea that men who cuckold other men should be given a pass is absurd – to hold wives accountable but not their lovers is to say that women have greater moral agency than men do.

    Not. Buying. That.

  70. Bluepillprofessor says:

    @Lyn87: 4:43 Comment nails it completely. My blood pressure was shooting up thinking exactly what you wrote as I read this piece of twisted slop mixed with steaming doses of solipsism and yougogiiirl. If the genders were reversed they would be howling for his head. The father would be in jail on a hundred thousand dollars bond and heading towards a 10-20 year sentence.

    @elov: “The mother deserves a public flogging and the murderous boyfriend deserves to be shot, drug and hung, while the twit who wrote the article needs a new line of employment.”

    Yes, at least that sentence for all 3. Even after a baby is murdered the twit who wrote this article defends the mother.

  71. Luke says:

    Continuing playing Devil’s Advocate here, Lyn87, you’re forgetting one thing:
    Stealing is always against the law (Man’s as well as God’s). However, sex is more complicated.
    A competent adult + no force + no committment of exclusivity to anyone else /= the same thing as a spouse knowingly committing adultery. It’s akin to how a present or absent “yes” on the part of a woman changes better-than-beer Saturday night recreation into 10-15 years.

  72. Lovey says:

    Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

    I found the comments about ‘cuckholdry’ only happening to the husband ….sorry …being cheated on my a husband of now 34 years and disccovering his 14 year adultery with a OW who urged him to ‘give her children’ and he did …now two …It has been absolutely a HUGE WOUND to all of us .

    Financially it has also been disasterous as HE paid out for her to have a new house, a new Lexus when he was able and high rolling now in the golden years we have been basically drained …our own three children who have been home schooled and raised in faith of Jesus Christ and the BIble….handled this well enough but why put them through all this .

    Two people who believed the idea that ” what two consenting adults do behind closed doors is no one’s business’ and
    ‘what they don’t know won’t hurt them ‘ are LIES

    EVERYONE in this situations has lost …Yes people wonder how come I did not realize what was up? Many good reasons. My husband is a great liar and very intelligent , charming and ORGANIZED so well how to pull this off …usually his work was the biggest ‘reason ‘ and a constant excuse for his absence….

    Lost the opportunity to demonstrate what an involved dad in ALL aspects of life is like.

    Lost the investment in his marriage where by he would have grown, matured , learned a few things about himself , me , life and our children.

    Lost our children’s ability to know that a man so handsome,intelligent, kind and charming can be trusted .

    Lost his son watched his dad walk out on our Bible time to ‘go to work’ or to ‘play golf for ‘client ‘ relationships sake …..so he demonstrated once a man is an “adult” he has no need for the Bible , God or building character in his children by actions and words as well. Example ….the Bible and God are only for women and children.

    Lost the opportunity for guarding his family …his daughters by way of protecting them from not demonstrating a trustworthy man …nothing he did was obvious to anyone …nor did he confess….it was discovered and our daughters are going to have to deal with how to trust anyone for their own choices.

    Lost the legacy that he had developed POSING as a good guy …

    Lost any chance of the children of adultery having a true demonstration of how a man and wife get along …they have had to accept as normal and acceptable for two unmarried people to plan this kind of treachery without concern for any of those effected by their desire to serve their own selves.

    One other important point …even if a person is not married YET …if they are not YOUR SPOUSE then they are OFF LIMITS UNTIL such time as they become your spouse ….what a concept!

    Vows or not …eventually some who are ‘free and single ‘ now are still not their own …according to scripture they have been ‘bought with a price , they are not their OWN”

    Users may pride themselves in being able to ‘GET” sex from someone ..and move on because the other person is WILLING …but what makes that right for you to take advantage of them?

    If the sin of extra marital sex had IMMEDIATE VISIBLE marks ..those of us who have not been raised in the faith would no doubt be pokadotted sadly …when a culture moves away from God’s Word and teaches generations such …there are wounds and scars that are there never the less …healing in Christ alone …still …there is a lot of learning and renewed mind to gain after coming to Him to be taught, reproved for false assumptions and correction so we are not destroyed for lack of knowledge.

    Presently all are suffering from my husband’s assumption that he COULD have OW ..and noone was going to get hurt and there was no loss.

    However I am glad I preserved the various ways I tried to get him to become more involved with us and to take some time for he and I …”I did not get married to go everywhere and do everything alone or just with the kids.

    I now realize that it was his involvement with the OW who approached him when we were dealing with a transfer and one thing led to another.

    Guilty?BOTH of them for sure…especially since they kept it going ..My husband told me that the OW would always have some crisis which kept him in her life …but the truth is the MAN here in this case was still married…but he did not want to deal with anything …was always having to get to work …or to some sporting event …

    Was it ME? REALLY? My children and I were kept plenty busy following him from one transfer to another …every couple of years…and never THERE to help us …most of the things a husband would help with …were too menial for him …’hire someone ‘ he would say as he went out the door to get in his latest sports car ..and off he would go to his important work ..

    Easy to get away with this .

    Also the Bible says that ‘love does not ill to his neighbor’

    Having sex with even a ‘willing ‘ partner is not LOVE …because if he had really cared about her ..or if SHE were capable of love …neither of them would have used the other to produce two illegitimate children and to hurt me and our three children who did not have the same focus and time from my husband as his extended adolescence and her selfish desire for money [as it turns out once she got the kids …and the money for ‘them’ was rolling in …she lost interest in HIM …wow what a mysterious turn of events !Who would have thought!]

    34 for years coming up here. He lives alone by his own choice because he could not be bothered to make the effort to work on those things which are needed…though he claims he ‘loves me’ …and that he ‘loves the kids’ …he only ‘loves’ by his flesh ..and that has nearly destroyed himself as well as those who he claims to love ..

    He had EVERYTHING most men can only dream of …seriously not just my view….but that is the way sin works…it is NEVER enough and it never satisfies…

    When people do not take heed to learn to be content with such things as they have …when they are not thankful …when they have no Savior from their own fleshly life they fall prey to all that comes to lure by the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life through the world the flesh and the devil .

    Learning to live through following Christ is possible …the issue is that one must WILL to do that …and follow through with action.

    Everyone has had to learn from this …but the wounds are quite far reaching ….this culture’s decent into self centered neo paganism , hedonism…..sad …when someone who you have learned to trust is revealed to be such a skilled deciever it is heartbreaking …it is treason….even the OW who entered into this with her eyes wide open and is fully responsible for her part in promoting the plan which my husband went along with like a sheep…not like he did not have good sex at home either as some may like to posit.

    I have found often through these several years trying to learn what to do according to the Bible and also counseling others who are in a similar boat …it is NOT that the men had such a terrible time at home…Some men…and women have everything but their lust and greed is nothing they care to deny..

    Agony for those who have loved and trusted them….

    I obey the command to pray for those who despite-fully use but I admit it is difficult….still it is what the Lord commands of His …pray for your enemies…huh…So I ask Him to help me with that ….

  73. Luke says:

    One thing you’re forgetting, “Lovey”. If there were NO court-ordered “child support” (interhousehold C.S. to be precise), and the father had automatic custody of children, more than a few of your household’s problems would not exist.

    That said, I’m not defending adultery here, just noting that 130 years of increasingly feminist laws hurt your family, as it has many others.

  74. greyghost says:

    OT but something I like to discuss as a way to avoid divorce and slavery.

  75. Lovey says:

    We did not go to court but out of my feeling those children should not suffer …after D DAY mind you …I could not withhold support …we agreed to an amount …which was actually more than what would have been court ordered …at first …but the income has declined since then …and they are getting older.

    The OW has not worked but has gone back for another degree …on a grant for single moms! ….yes blood boiling…

    I forgot to mention that she RESEARCHED how she could become a ‘single mom by choice’ …in my opinion this ‘trend’ was not unlike the fashion trend where women had ‘purse dogs’ !

    I only know this because I found a letter my husband wrote…which her shrink had encouraged her to ask him about the ‘elephant in the room’ ! …aka what now that they had two children …She always knew he would not leave me …even she attested to this agreement they had …

    I agree Feminism along with Humanism has destroyed so much of what God has set in place for our good…the order, the structure , the protective boundaries….all nearly lost info ….while people now take a social justice stand …all part of the one world, one govt, one religion forming to accept the Anti Christ who will arrive to ‘save the day’ at first…..without the knowledge of the Word of God …people are pretty much ‘screwed’ if you’ll pardon my voc.

    At this point I am taking one step at a time …the OW has not apologized and she has taught her children to hate Christ and anything other than the new age , feminist , communist point of view her very own words testify to …and her daughter has told my husband the same …roots are rotten but who knows …Christ is able to save to the uttermost all who COME TO HIM.

    So we pray for them…even through gritted teeth some time…hey…it is what it is …I am not there yet …no hugging the OW ….just continuing in my own walk and endeavoring to stay the course.

  76. Mark says:


    Good Post!

    “”Little Andres Bravo was brought to the hospital in horrific condition: he had brain injuries, a lung contusion, two black eyes, and bruises on his buttocks.””

    What a sick f*** this guy is.I believe that an act such as this does not require criminal justice but,mob justice.Does anyone know what state this happened in? And does the state have the death penalty?

  77. Mark says:

    @Captain Obvious

    “”Traditionally for jews they tended to look down upon their neighbors who were not jewish””

    This is true.I will agree with it.The mindset behind it being “we are God’s chosen people”.You can go to any major North American city and you will find “Jewish Neighborhoods”.Usually,they are the wealthiest most exclusive neighborhood in the city.It also works the other way.If I moved into an exclusively Roman Catholic neighborhood I can guarantee you that I would be the black sheep on the street and the brunt of all neighborhood jokes.

  78. Mark says:


    “”Do you think this mom should be held responsible for her baby’s death?””

    I think that she should be guilty of some sort of negligence.But,that will never happen in court.She will get a pussy pass for sure.Despite the fact,that even though any person with an inkling of intelligence would not want to be around such a person…..let alone let him fucking babysit?….wtf? I hope this prick gets the death penalty.Nothing else is acceptable for these types of scumbags.

  79. infowarrior1 says:


    I have talked with some Christian manospherians about this. And some are strongly opposed to artificial womb technology. What’s your thoughts on its relation to Christian theology?

  80. Mark says:


    A couple of articles from one of our city’s daily’s.And people try to tell me that today’s “modern women” aren’t a sick bunch of pathetic trash with serious mental problems???……Ya right!

    This fem-tard has an MBA and was accepted at medical school.But,instead she gets involved with a major drug dealer.What a winner!

    More sick f***s.All modern wimminz! And People trusted these c***s with their kids?????

    You probably read about this in your local papers Dalrock.It is in your neighborhood.

  81. Mark says:


    Thanks for the link.Great comments!…..Here is the best one that I have read!

    “”Why men don’t marry: I come back from the store and there’s a cop car in my driveway. My wife scratched her arm with a nail file and said I hit her….is what she told the cops. Next thing I know I’m handcuffed and taken to the police station. I’m given a restraining order and told not to back to my own house, your wife is staying in the house. I go to court for assault and found guilty and spend 8 months in prison. When I come out I’m forced to sign divorce papers. I lose everything. No custody of the kids and i can’t go near my wife. Now I have child support payments. I miss the payments because I lost my job while sitting in jail. Now the state has revoked my drivers license. Now I don’t have a job and can’t drive my car. I’m homeless and broke. Meantime my X wife has a boyfriend. A neighbor told me he yells and beats my kids. I can’t do anything because she still has a restraining order. If I go within 100 feet of the house I break probation and will be sent to jail for 2 years.

    One of many horror stories American men have to endure. What’s your horror story?Oh…I forgot. Since I owe child support I can’t keep $50 bucks in the bank without it being stolen by the state. So now I have to somehow live off the grid. No job, no license, bank account money stolen, cops coming to the door to throw you in jail for non payment of child support.””

    This would not happen to me.I would go see some Jewish “friends of mine” and have them take care of the problem for me.Of course,the cops will want to talk to me and ask as to why we found your ex-wife in the Toronto Harbour with a bullet in her head.

  82. greyghost says:

    To me I see women as what God as said. She is a helper. She is not really needed. The safest place for a child is his bio father. As we can see when a woman has any kind of say so it is used just for her. She takes care of a child so she will be see as a good mother not for any other reason. She is given the vote and votes in laws of misandry. Mans sin is pleasing women and not God. Cutting women out is not a bad thing for her involvement will be based on her submission and all is well. Woman behave vey well when they are not needed.
    I’m a big advocate for MGTOW. And the more I look at it, the more it seems in tune with biblical principle than anything else we men have come up with. We don’t have the luxury of living in a civil society where blue bill ignorance as to where tradition and customs come from will work as long as those traditions and customs are adhered to. Everything has to be red pill the biggest resistance and arguments come from traditional blue pill Christianity. Believing they need to serve women no they don’t she is a helper that is not very helpful get rid of her. And men we see as sinners are doing just that. Sexbots /virtual sex , MGTOW, surrogacy, artificial womb, male birth control, and the manosphere red pill.
    Today I would have my same kids I have now with a surrogate or artificial womb. And I am certain the same mother they have now would be much more polite and appreciative in the same household. The fix for Christian men offended by such a thing is to have default father in marriage custody and will achieve the same social results. Sure as hell better for the kids than the story Mark posted up. .

  83. Pingback: Mom allegedly lets boyfriend beat her baby to death & lies to cops–but we’re supposed to feel sorry for her | Stupid Girl

  84. Lyn87 says:

    Luke says:
    September 18, 2014 at 10:29 pm

    Continuing playing Devil’s Advocate here, Lyn87, you’re forgetting one thing:
    Stealing is always against the law (Man’s as well as God’s). However, sex is more complicated.

    I didn’t forget anything – you did – because fornication is always wrong too (adultery is a specific type of fornication).

    What you call “complicated” God calls SIN.

  85. Lyn87 says:

    While I’m thinking about it, Luke, there’s something else you forgot. You forgot to answer my question about whether you would consider the woman in the hypothetical scenario to be guilty or not. You pointed out that stealing is always wrong, but in that scenario, she didn’t steal anything from you, she just encouraged her boyfriend to use his position of trust to steal from you. Which way will you go: is she Guilty or Innocent?

  86. If she left her baby alone on a park bench she could be prosecuted, yet that poor kid would have been better off there than left with a sociopath. So how is it not at all the mother’s fault? Aside from feminism’s belief that nothing is ever a woman’s fault, of course.

    When are these women going to start looking for.the good in good men, instead of in pieces of garbage?

  87. Anonymous Reader says:

    When are these women going to start looking for.the good in good men, instead of in pieces of garbage?

    You are not new here, nor to the androsphere, so why are you asking this question? Is it rhetorical?

  88. When I clicked over to the article, I saw this one in the side bar: “21 States Aren’t Keeping Kids Safe, is Yours on the List? http://thestir.cafemom.com/big_kid/177369/disaster_report_card_state_rank

    It’s not the mother’s job to keep her kids safe anymore. It’s the goverment’s!


  89. Luke says:

    Hm. Trying to answer your last question, Lyn87. There is probably (I’m not a lawyer) a statute against conspiring to commit grand larceny/embezzle. I do seriously doubt there is a conspiracy statute in any U.S. state for consensual nonprostitutional sex between competent adults of opposite sex in private, eliminating corrupting minors, pimping/pandering, public indecency, etc. As far as God’s Law, I defer to the Bible on that.

  90. Luke says:

    P.S.: I didn’t say fornication, I said sex. My word choice was intentional.
    Every scientist (I’m one) is taught not to go beyond what you know as an assertion.

  91. Hehe, what can I say, I have an optimistic streak.

  92. Gunner Q says:

    The Real Peterman @ 10:19 am:
    “When are these women going to start looking for.the good in good men, instead of in pieces of garbage?”

    Good point. The concept is that women go for rebels but, in practice, those rebels are usually rebels against Christ rather than the day’s social norms. Part of me understands women want to be dominated, another part says they want to be dominated by evil specifically.

    Maybe this is the dividing line between responsible women and feral women. Being a man, I sometimes fantasize about using my power to ruthlessly crush enemies but realize that submitting to Christ means restraining those urges. Does modern society have the sort of effect on women that legalizing murder might have on men?

  93. Mark says:


    “”The safest place for a child is his bio father.””

    Agreed! Growing up I remember some kids that became the unfortunate product of divorce.I still see them today.The boys(and girls) that went with their fathers grew up the most disciplined,well adjusted and are successful today.The men are still single(imagine that?).The boys that grew up with their mothers are pansies.In fact,they despise women in general.A few of them I know dropped out of school,became drifters etc.They also hold a huge resentment towards their mothers.The women became tramps.They are also really close to their fathers and rarely have anything to do with the mothers.They hate their mothers boyfriends,friends,cooking,lifestyle etc.If my parents were to get divorced when I was 12 years old there is no way in hell that I or my brother would go live with our mother.Even if it was court ordered.

    “”the biggest resistance and arguments come from traditional blue pill Christianity.””

    It seems to be that way!

  94. Lyn87 says:

    Luke says:
    September 19, 2014 at 11:46 am

    P.S.: I didn’t say fornication, I said sex. My word choice was intentional.
    Every scientist (I’m one) is taught not to go beyond what you know as an assertion.

    Sex with someone to whom one is not married is fornication – so whether a man does or does not know that the woman in his bed is married to another man is irrelevant: he certainly knows that she is not married to him. Fornication – by definition. This doesn’t require scientific training… all it takes is a dictionary.

    And you are continuing to – not to put too fine a point on this – weasel out of answering my question. I did not ask you whether “Conspiracy to Commit Grand Larceny” is illegal (it is) – I asked you if you would consider the woman in the scenario to have wronged you, since she was not the one who betrayed your trust. Based on your apparent desire to absolve (or at least severely mitigate the guilt of) a man who sleeps with another man’s wife on the excuse that it was not he who broke his vows, the only logical conclusion I can draw that would be consistent with your position is that you would not consider the woman in the hypothetical situation to have done you significant wrong, either – regardless of what the law may say about such conspiracies.

    Really, it’s a fairly straightforward yes-or-no question… unless you wish to posit that prompting someone to abuse the trust of an innocent third party person is fine, as long as the person whose trust is being betrayed is not you.

  95. Lovey says:

    When people define for themselves what is ‘good ‘ ….they will give themselves permission to do anything they FEEL is good.

    Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

    One can know the content of the heart by applying the ‘sword of the spirit which is the Word of God ‘

    Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow,

    and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    Pro 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

    Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

    Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

    Mar 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

    1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

    Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

    Eph 414 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

    15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

    Eph 4:7 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

    18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

    19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

    20 But ye [believers] have not so learned Christ;

    21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been TAUGHT BY HIM, as the truth is in Jesus:

    22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

    23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

    24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

    25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

    26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

    27 Neither give place to the devil.

    28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

    29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

    30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

    31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

    32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.

  96. Lovey says:

    Lyn 87

    Indeed deception in any form is sin and sin kills …and always has consequences sooner or later …it is for this reason the commands and wisdom found in the Bible was God’s warning to protect man …if man will listen….mankind that is …This is why we all need a Savior because all are born into the world ‘dead in trespasses and sin ‘ and have a propensity for fall for sin at one time or another ..even after salvation we are told to grow up in the Lord…but flesh will always have this stain …’it is appointed unto man ONCE to die and then the judgment : and ‘There is none good no not one …all have sinned and come short of the glory of God’ and “only GOD IS GOOD” …

    In Jesus Christ we escape the wrath to come …otherwise we take the judgment upon our selves at that time appointed.

    The ‘solution’ is clear for those who have eyes to see and ears to here …better to have Jesus Christ as our mediator and Savior from the judgment that a holy God must pronounce upon sin …or deal with it ourselves but no one is good enough based upon his own …no one…

    So all are accountable for their own actions …the man urged to steal is still responsible for his decision to be swayed…the woman is guilty of seducing and urging him to sin …both sin , both are guilty …both need to repent and come to the Lord for forgiveness and confess Jesus as Lord .not religion but to Jesus Christ …confess Him as Lord and Savior …realizing the need for a Savior …and believing God raised Him from the dead ..alive for evermore ..and we also with Him seated in the heavenlies eternally ….not a bad trade I’d say! Thank you Lord ! That is GRACE!

  97. Boxer says:

    Dear Lyn:

    Really, it’s a fairly straightforward yes-or-no question… unless you wish to posit that prompting someone to abuse the trust of an innocent third party person is fine, as long as the person whose trust is being betrayed is not you.

    I continue to be amazed at the hamster olympics among men, who feel that they ought to be allowed a “cock pass” in moral matters, simply because they are dudes. This approaches a sort of inverted feminism, in which the subject feels he is entitled to do anything he wants, simply because he has the ability to grow a beard.

    Would it be morally acceptable to pay someone else to rob people for me? How about if my criminal employee was a woman, who only robbed women? etc. The ethical rabbit hole can’t be spelunked for very long, until we’re in the land of the absurd, yet the entitlement complex is dismally common.

    Best, Boxer

  98. infowarrior1 says:

    ”To me I see women as what God as said. She is a helper. She is not really needed. The safest place for a child is his bio father.”

    I don’t know about the fact that she isn’t needed. Consider her creation:
    Genesis 2:18-25
    [i]18Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit fore him.” 19Now out of the ground the Lord God had formedf every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. 20The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adamg there was not found a helper fit for him. 21So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. 22And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he madeh into a woman and brought her to the man. 23Then the man said,

    “This at last is bone of my bones
    and flesh of my flesh;
    she shall be called Woman,
    because she was taken out of Man.”i

    24Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. 25And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.[i/]

  99. Lovey says:

    Dear ones….all of the desputing over issues that God settled once and for all within the context of his Word which content addresses the beginning FROM the end for He is outside of time …all sin kills…eventually …all which HE has warned from HIS perspective outside of time is KILLER…

    Whether man or woman …sin steals , kills and destroys what is LIFE.

    One may not see it as such on the flesh side of sin but from God’s perspective and through the work of the Holy Spirit once one has submitted to the Lord Jesus Christ and is willing to be taught by Him and His Word then no body SHOULD WANT to DO sin…run …run like the wind from all of it….and what you have not known as sin ask Him for wisdom and then as you see it …confess yours and forgive others…and keep yourself out of it’s realm as much as possible

    As Christians we are IN the World but not OF it but that entails LEARNING what God says is true which is often times opposite of what the world , the flesh and the devil have to say about it.

    Also speaking to Natural men is pretty much moot …for they have not the spirit of God with which to know truth …it is ‘foolishness to them …neither can they know it because they have not and know not God’

    1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    To ‘natural man’ as God’s Word defines it …the Word of GOD and it’s truth is hateful….

    We all start out that way …

    Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    john 35 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    john 32 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

    13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

    15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

    20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

    21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

    1 Cor 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

    34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

    35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

    36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

    37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

    38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

    39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

    40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

    41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

    42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

    43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

    44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

    46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

    47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

    49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


    Ephesians 2 King James Version (KJV)

    2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

    2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

    3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

    4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

    6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

    7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

  100. Lovey says:

    yep…man without a woman is in God’s view ‘Not Good’ that man should be alone…

    It was up to man to look to God to help him love his wife AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR HER…..hmmmm.

    All that God has commanded of those who believe in Him and love Him and seek Him is to submit to Him , learn from Him and be ENABLED BY HIM to live in the life and the marriage in a way that glorifies GOD and satisfies and matures those IN the ONE FLESH marriage

    Notice the idea of a change in not only IDENTITY ..from single to married goes along with a change in PRIORITIES ….from OTHERS to putting his wife first …after that relationship which the man was to maintain with GOD .

    Not going according to the priorities set by God’s given order for those in life with Himself first …mankind fell and has fouled up ever since until he comes to Christ Jesus and learns as the Holy Spirit opens his understanding as he asks for understanding of the Word of GOD …the BIble.

    Many acts of interference from the god of this world who is the devil due to Adam’s giving this world’s dominion over to him along with the fall because of rebellion and disobedience to truth which would have kept them from all of the mess….interference is STILL going on within the churches where people DO NOT READ THEIR OWN BIBLE with the help of the Holy Spirit opening their understanding and keeping at it..

    Many false spiritual ISMS are abounding where people set the Bible aside to listen to channeled materials ….from demon spirits uncontested by the Word since those deceived know not scriptures nor the power of GOd found from within them!

    Lots of trouble came from man not heeding the Lord in the beginning and ever since and thus all of the way men and women were to function EQUAL BUT DIFFERENT IN DESIGN BY GOD ..has wrought much strife….

    Jas 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

  101. greyghost says:

    It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit fore him.”

    What woman do you know fits that. None because she is a helper and men have elevated her to a place of worship. Do any here think that bitch is going anywhere. Christians are great until the margins that require faith. I have full faith in God’s creation. I even wrote it in my reply to you. She is not going anywhere and as long as she is in the role of helper she is happily insecure. With the government as her husband she is no wife. Technically that makes a man that marries an adulterer and a chump in the way it plays out in reality. Step around her and live and she will follow just as god intended it is her curse and relief from hysteria. Don’t get to hung up on looking biblical it doesn’t work but the principals and the nature of humans as God created them remains.
    MGTOW is a correction of red pill from “good” far better to understand them than live emasculated in blue pill ignorance. The church is churchian in an effort to appease females and maintain the “wife” in an effort to be Christian. Same sin over and over of putting a woman ahead of the mission. Have faith men considered less that Christian are going to fix it for you so you can play house and thus not violating tradition with any reliance on actual faith.

  102. infowarrior1 says:

    True. I agree with the rest of your points but this point is patently false:
    ”She is not really needed”

    If men as a sex truly did not need women why would God go all the way to creating woman?

    ”Don’t get to hung up on looking biblical it doesn’t work”

    Nope. Its says what it says. It needs no elaboration or fanciness from me. It is biblical and it is God’s word. If God exists and Christ rose from the dead. Those words are absolute truth.

  103. greyghost says:

    She will follow God said so and is the truth If it is possible to have a child with out her she is not needed. But she will follow no doubt about that.

  104. Lovey says:

    The more things change the more they stay the same …..

    Caught in disobedience? Cast the blame!

    Gen 3:12 And the man said, The WOMAN whom THOU gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

    Blame someone ..anyone …ultimately BLAME GOD!

    Talk about looking a ‘gift horse in the mouth”~!

    The solution? Learn what God will teach any gender person who will seek Him and avail themselves to LEARN what His Word will reveal ….

    Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and RECEIVE WITH MEEKNESS the engrafted WORD, which is ABLE to save your souls.

  105. bradford says:

    @Lovey and infwarrior1

    Scripture certainly says it is good for man to marry, but it certainly doesn’t require any or every man to marry. If the cultural circumstances are such that biblical marriage is a practical impossibility, do you believe that men should marry anyway?

  106. Lovey says:

    Well Bradford….what I have to offer you is what was written for those who are interested in following Jesus Christ who will EMPOWER those who are desiring to walk in His wisdom to do so.

    WIth keeping this in mind….TO those who are believers …

    1 Corinthians 7 King James Version (KJV)

    7 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

    2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

    3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

    4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

    5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

    6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

    7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

    8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

    9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

    10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:

    11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

    12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

    13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

    14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

    15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

    16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

    17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

    18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.

    19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

    20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

    21 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.

    22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord’s freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ’s servant.

    23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

    24 Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.

    25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.

    26 I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be.

    27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.

    28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

    29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;

    30 And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not;

    31 And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away.

    32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:

    33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.

    The unbeliever does not pay much attention to the things of the Bible yet they are truth …without thinking of the Bible as the inspired God breathed word that it is …pretty much people live by their carnal mind …natural understanding based upon their five senses and whatever crosses their minds from the world and the god of this world….nothing good comes of this EVENTUALLY for all sin has pleasure for a season…sooner or later consequences come about …

    For many years I did not know the Word of GOD and the truth about what Jesus did or who He is….Once I did turn to Him and started to read the Bible and kept on reading and asking Him for understanding ..He taught me through the scriptures to understand what SIN is …I had not really known before ..having been through many ‘isms’ now prevalent in the church as well as outside the church. Hindu ism for example does not believe in sin and the view of the world is that it is an illusion…something of our own making .

    God made all things and the Bible records the lives of both believers and the results of their faith ..and unbelievers and the consequences of their rejection of the God who loves all people but in their being descendants of fallen Adam …were going to be subjected to His judgment upon sin …all born are those who come ‘disconnected’ to the God who loves them and they sin …it is the flesh that brings about our not realizing the condition of what sin is and how it has effected all of this world .

    Marriage is a great choice to a believer since GOD made marriage for our good and His glory …like all of what He made …it was the original way God provided for a man to enjoy his life and his wife …but sin came into the picture and the devil too ….GREAT ! All things in the fallen world have been corrupting and eroding ever since …including relationships which are going on …without heeding what GOD has provided for us to ‘get a clue’ as to what is going on and what HE originally intended for us to enjoy and to take part in .
    Man still has free will but if he does not know what is available from GOD who is able to make all kinds of changes with the permission and obedience to His wisdom …man will go hit or miss and mostly MISS since the enemy of God works overtime to try to vex and destroy man …Any parent is hurt more by someone hurting their child….so GOD has provided WISDOM for us to learn what is truth about life, marriage and parenting because HE has invested HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON to ‘buy ‘ back anyone who is willing to seek , find and believe in what HE has provided.

    It cost Him a SON ..His only begotten Son ..whose birth and life fulfilled ALL prophesies given for us to identify HIM when he came …those who were knowledgeable of how to identify the messiah…rejected Jesus because they had wanted him to be the conquering King ..which he will be upon His return …but the first time he came…He came as a servant ..willing to do all His Father’s will in order to fulfill and pay in full the penalty for sin for all who will accept His sacrificial act to pay for and cleanse us of the sin which NONE other could do!

    Whether you marry or not ..sexual relationships outside of marriage are SIN and SIN KILLS.

    YOU have a choice to marry or not …but to marry JUST so you can have sex really misses the point of marriage as the sexual relationship is to be an FRUIT of relationship….and those who do not realize this and base all of their decisions upon fleshly desire or what ever other mercenary desire they may have are missing the depth and significance of life and marriage and married life.

    God owns all people but it is up to people to choose to seek Him and then to allow His Word to teach and train them ….so they can live the life which Jesus Christ has brought about by not just paying for sin but for giving us LIFE which is more than just this lifespan on earth …but it is eternal ..everlasting and it starts when someone seeks the Lord and asks Him to save him from his dead sinful life and bring in life and guide him into the understanding of the Word of GOD as found in the Bible.

    Hey …nothing else is enduring and as this thread demonstrates …people are hoping and then disappointed and then become bitter and cynical because their hope has been in fallen man …others and even themselves.

    God is the Creator who has never changed and Jesus Christ is the same , yesterday , today and forever ..and when you call upon Him and ask in HIS name He will straighten out the confusion that has come about by believing in this worlds ‘experts’ who have no more truth than a rock compared to GOD who is consistent and trustworthy and we find that out by considering what He has said .

    Marry , don’t marry …but no matter what you do ..without Christ you are a sitting duck for disappointment and eventual destruction ..which was not God’s desire or plan for you.

    All relationships require maturity and willingness to forgive …but most of all transparency and virtue which is not pretended but grounded in the truth of God’s Word and through His Son Jesus Christ.

    Psa 127:1 [[A Song of degrees for Solomon.]] Except the LORD build the house, they labour IN VIAN THAT BUILD IT: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

    Jesus summed it up pretty well here…

    Matt 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

    25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

    26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

    27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

    The FOUNDATION for a life that is abundant and righteous…is this ..

    1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

    Eph 2:20 And are built upon THE FOUNDATION of the APOSTLES and PROPHETS, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


    Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and HIS NAME IS CALLED THE WORD OF GOD.

  107. greyghost says:

    Lovey Check it out


  108. bradford says:


    Yep, sex outside of marriage is sin, no disagreement. However Paul also makes it quite clear in I Cor 7:8 that the unmarried may remain unmarried, which was my point. In the present state of marriage I could not recommend marriage to my sons (which means celibacy for Christians).

    What is your view from scripture on IVF for an unmarried man who desires children? No sex involved. Is it sin?

  109. infowarrior1 says:

    ”do you believe that men should marry anyway?”

    No. But that was not the issue I had with with greyghost’s statement its that men don’t need women at all. That is patently false.

  110. Luke says:

    Apt examples of modern wife possibilities:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYIhNLEzAds 4:33 mark (Is a Jeff Dunham/Bubba J routine)

  111. Luke says:

    OT but interesting:
    Turns out cops are 2-4x as likely to commit domestic violence as are NFL players:


  112. Lovey says:

    OK since you ‘asked’ by way of this video for me to check out …here is MHO along with the Word of GOD regarding the state of our world presently

    2 Timothy 3 King James Version (KJV)

    3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

    2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

    3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

    4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

    5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

    Sorry …It sounds like this guys girlfriend really hurt him when she said she did not want to have a child …[not married so maybe that was a WISE idea at the time….then when she said she would ..HE ‘showed her’ and turned to this rhetoric…. led to this most immature conclusion [yes I have known some who are in their 50’s who are immature…it is not an age defined state]

    Her position seems to have left him feeling rejected and disrespected so “he seems to want to do what HE wants despite what this may mean to the CHILD …totally selfish of either a man or a woman who wants to have a child but does not want the responsibilities that go with it …a NANNY is not a solution to this either…

    .God wanted fathers WITH mothers to raise the child in the Word ..to train them up in the way that they should go ..that so that the plan was to have a ‘godly seed’ as Malachi speaks of God’s desire and plan for marriage.

    His disappointment seems to have left him an empty shell of dysfunction within healthy relationships …in this present world do we really need to perpetuate more narcissism …very sad ‘solution’ he has come to.

    People playing ‘god ‘ seem to only think of what THEY want and when it comes to this idea of having children as a single parent …men or women …or anyone ..it is SELFISH! But that is just my understanding of the scriptures AND the evidence produced by these types of choices…usually ignored or hidden from the public eye…even extended families try to make the ‘best ‘ of it.

    I also feel that children who are called upon to ‘approve’ of a family blended out of a sinful relationship …anything other than widowhood are being taught by those parents who they do not want to lose their love …to accept the situation …for the ‘family’s sake’ which is only another bowing to the needs of the parents who married out of adultery to normalize SIN

    Thus bringing confusion into the child’s understanding which is the opposite of the God ordained responsibility of the parent to train and teach them the benefit of godliness according to the Word of GOD and to respect the God of the Bible…a la the first commandment …which has NOT PASSED AWAY..

    All the more reason to pray “Come quickly Lord Jesus! ” as people are intent to reject the God who has the solution to their situation and they wallow in self pity and seek to reproduce like troubled individuals by way of “science falsely so called”!

    In short I think this wise counsel would apply to those thinking along this line….

    1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

    and AMEN to that as well!

  113. Ernst Schreiber says:

    1st time commenter, recent lurker.

    Re: the discussion about IVF vis-a-vis MGTOW,

    IF children are the fruit of love, THEN, can you love a test-tube?

  114. bradford says:


    What do men need women for other than for children? What did the apostle Paul need women for? What does a celibate priest need women for?


    So, You believe scripture would not allow an unmarried man to have a child by IVF and surrogacy because the child would only have one parent (father), not because scripture disallows IVF in and of itself? Not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to understand your position clearly.

  115. Luke says:

    Lovey, not that I’m pure as the driven snow on this, a bit of constructive criticism on your posts lately:

    When your posts exceed a certain length, the later stuff tends to effectively overwrite the earlier stuff in your post, like what happens with a buffer in computerese. If the earlier is more crucial than the later, that damages your post. Why not post just the most critical part (hint: if it’s not possible to have your whole post visible at one time without scrolling or page shrinking, your post is almost certainly over the limit into just a big meaningless blur that hardly anyone will read.)

  116. Luke says:

    Infowarrior1 says:
    September 19, 2014 at 11:19 pm

    ”do you believe that men should marry anyway?”

    “No. But that was not the issue I had with with greyghost’s statement its that men don’t need women at all. That is patently false.”

    Yeah, but if the society has effectively run out of women, men are forced to do what they can (short of violent crime or homosexuality, at the very minimum).

  117. Lovey says:

    Appreciate the ‘dilemma ‘ expressed by the men here who want to have a child but ask why?

    I guess it gets back to ‘who is god’ ?

    From the beginning this kind of situation has come from man thinking he has no need to be learn anything from the God who made all things including man .

    Having been married for now 34 years and discovered my husband fathered two children unbeknownst to me and our children I think I can speak from some point of experience with a woman who DECIDED to enlist my husband so she could become a single mom ‘by choice’…the destruction to all who this touches has been beyond a doubt destructive to say the least.

    ALL parties are suffering from the DECISION these two people made thinking it would not ‘hurt’ anyone because they had the wherewithal to ‘afford’ doing it.

    No plans to divorce or marry…just an ‘easy ‘ way to get what they wanted.

    Some ‘solution’ to not being willing to live authentically . devaluing the greatest opportunity to grow, mature, and protect one another and those most vulnerable who had no choice in such a situation that has had very definite impact upon all …including the woman and the man who thought what they CHOSE was no one else’s ‘business”!

    There ARE reasons God’s plan is the best for all …even though people often learn after the fact why !

  118. Luke says:

    God’s plan normally does not involve fornication or divorce, much less adultery, Lovey. No argument there.

    Bradford is asking what about reproduction that does not involve any of those. Typically, ova (and sperm) used in IVF would just have been thrown away without any chance at life. Being against IVF in such situations sounds more than a little like advocating suttee (charming dot-Indian custom the backwards British largely stamped out) for orphans.

  119. Lovey says:

    What may I ask does this choice teach the potential children about the value of God and His plans for man and woman …and marriage and family?

  120. Luke says:

    That God’s will is more important than feminist laws that have been depriving millions of children of fathers for most of their lives? Now, those immoral, unBiblical laws are starting to deprive children of mothers in a few cases. Mothers past about age 3-7 are actually less important than fathers, given how single fathers do nearly as well on average as do hetero married couples who are bioparents of the kids. (Mothers of b*stards produce damaged kids ~7x more likely to go to jail, etc.)

    As American kids that are white and non-lower-class are a shortage (below replacement rate for over a generation), single-by-choice fathers with custody are sociologically clearly preferable to SMs, no kids, or 3rd-Worlders for maintaining Western civilization.

  121. Lovey says:

    I realize what you are up against…but I do know godly young woman who are NOT feminists nor are they uber world version prim….just good young women …good looking ..but still virgins who are hoping for some godly young men …some are going through what you are in terms of the tick tock …and desire a family

    I think it is very sad that the world is in such a state but don’t give up and limit God in your thinking …He has offered to supply all our needs according to His will IF we are willing to trust Him and become informed as to WHAT HE has actually said and then allow that HE means what He said…do you think that HE is not able to satisfy His own will AND the need a person has that HE knows are there.

    People jump in and try to fix things and then they MISS what God has in store….why settle for the way of the world when God is willing and able to do all that He promised for His glory and our good?

    People miss so much by taking matters into their own hands when things appear not to be going the way they think they should and don’t bother allowing that GOD will guide them by their reading and following Him.

    Patience is ‘old fashioned’ these days apparently.

  122. Luke says:

    Lovey says:
    September 20, 2014 at 1:20 am

    “I realize what you are up against…but I do know godly young woman who are NOT feminists nor are they uber world version prim….just good young women …good looking ..but still virgins who are hoping for some godly young men”

    Uh, multiple red flags just in those 3 lines, Lovey.

    Their hypergamy (virtually universal in American women, yes, even in significantly religious women) will likely make them expect the confidence/status/education/income that mostly only somewhat older men will have, yet will expect to get a man no more than 2-3 years older than they are. Bill Gates wasn’t a millionaire when he dropped out of college, but just another gawky geek from the POV of age-peer women. Likewise, these women (let’s figure they’re “6”s on average) are still likely expecting 8 – 9.5 men for marriage, with men under 7s not even registering in their minds as men. Lastly, those young women still are seeking men interested in marriage under the shadow of what the divorce court system can do to them — and to damage even still-existing marriages by threatpoint.

    Now, if those women you’re speaking of would openly tell people they know that they’d consider marrying a man who’s nowhere near passing the 6-6-6* rule, that they’d be Biblically submissive in marriage, would happily marry a man 10 years older than themselves, would marry while young enough they had the vast majority of their fertility and looks yet (19-22 rather than 26-30+), that they WANT their future husband to have a prenup where those young women give up alimony, then, yes, I’d take their desire about marriage a bit more seriously sight unseen.

    *Six feet tall and six figure income, or deep-six him. This is only around 5% of American men, tops, so unless a young woman insisting upon this is an 8.5+ and younger than age 24, she’s likely just announcing either or both of carousel riding and/or never marrying.

  123. CaptainObvious says:

    A pity we can’t do direct replies to people here. Just now came back and saw this.

    Anyway @ Lyn87,

    I completely agree with the end of your reply to me. However, I am not sure where your reasoning comes in your presumptions about the point I was making.

    First, I was referring to Leviticus and the proscribed laws therein which come from the mosaic law. When I brought up samaritans being mentioned by Jesus I did so to illustrate the point of samaritans while practicing a form of judaism where not seen as official jews by the hebrew and were thus looked down upon by them even though they practiced the same religion.

    As you were saying Jesus of course did not make this distinction and in fact a large portion of his ministry was spent in shaming and condemning the jews who practiced this….thus his parable.
    I was referring to that aspect of jewish thought which needs to be considered when reading the scripture in order to understand the perspective from which the Judaic hebrew viewed outsiders.

    Point being that the mosaic law clearly states to the hebrew that if he did this……it was still adultry/sin/punishable by death. Now the rabbis did not think that way…..which is why jesus was so mad at them.

    The rabbis had their oral tradition (halakah) which they pronounced circumvented said mosaic law because their “neighbor” wasn’t actually a blood born hebrew. This is important to note. Jesus ministry and his attitude towards the pharisees were directly in response to their apostasy and utter hatred of God by doing things like this and then proclaimed it the higher points of the law…as if God himself gave them the ok to commit adultery.

    As history proves. Not much has changed.

  124. Lovey says:

    Thank you Luke for setting me straight….What you describe is nothing like what young men might be looking for on their bucket list I am guessing in the “perfect woman” category either….Good to know.

    Getting sleepy here …sorry …but this has been and interesting thread.

  125. margaret59 says:

    This is not a hard decision. Charge the bitch! She is as culpable, or more than thug, jerk boyfriend. This was HER son.

  126. greyghost says:

    No. But that was not the issue I had with with greyghost’s statement its that men don’t need women at all. That is patently false.

    If you don’t marry you don’t need her. .

  127. infowarrior1 says:


    I am not talking about individual cases but as a collective. Suppose every female disappeared from existence. What would be the result? Prison is one example of a female free environment(until recently).

    While many women are failing to live up to their potential. The potential certainly exists for women to do much better. Secondly there are probably unseen benefits beyond childbirth that will become apparent if women are taken away or rendered non-existent. Was God mistaken in creating woman?

  128. Lyn87 says:

    CaptainObvious says:
    September 20, 2014 at 1:37 am

    I understood your original point about pre-Advent Jews not considering Gentiles to be worthy of the same moral consideration as fellow Jews – that’s just an historical fact: no argument from me. What I was responding to was this,

    “To understand that you must understand the biblical context of the word “neighbor” in the old testament. Neighbor refers to people who live adjacent to the Hebrew but not necessarily a Jew. For example the Samaritans were viewed this way by Jews and they were neighbors. Jesus even had a parable about this in the New Testament.”

    It seemed to me that you were attempting to justify that distinction rather than describe it. I was pointing out that Jesus told them they were wrong to do so in the “Parable of the Good Samaritan.”

    Based on your latest response I think we’re on the same page now – or at least in the same chapter.

  129. CaptainObvious says:


    Yes I’m in agreement. Adultery, either way you try to spin it is absolutely always wrong. Especially because the physical act of adultery has a spiritual equivalent. In the old testament God constantly referred to his people as an adulterous wife when they chased after foreign gods. For this he ruthlessly punished them by causing invading armies to come in and rape, pillage and destroy his people, causing them to be scattered across the world.

    The hebrews of old chased after baal and ishtar. Even going so far in their hypocrisy as to make a sacrifice to God in His temple and on the very same day go to the valley of tophet and sacrifice their children on the altar of baal!

    This has a modern equivalent for the apostate christian when they celebrate all the pagan holidays on the same days as the pagan. The modern churchian celebrates and pays homage to isthar every year when they celebrate easter (Ishtar).

    “No No!” screams the apostate churchian. “We celebrate Christ’s resurrection! ”

    Yes that is why you play with easter eggs. A pagan symbol of fertility. Which is practiced on the same day as the pagan and has the same name…easter! Like I said before, God destroyed his own people for this act. God does not change…do you not think He is also extremely pissed off at the apostates for doing this?

    On december 25th as well, which is natalis solis invictus…the birth day of the unconquerable sun god. The apostate christian brings the evergreen into his home and adorns it with silver and gold. Another pagan act forbidden by God. They burn the yule log which is a symbol of child sacrifice and think they are worshipping God!

    Indeed the modern apostate is going to have a whole HELL of alot to answer for when he stands before his creator.

  130. greyghost says:

    Prison is one example of a female free environment(until recently).

    Not a good example those guys are defective. The 80 % beta would make a stepford wife and a cloning facility. I understand where you are coming from. It only takes a large minority. The goal is for it to be a logical and real option for men to take. Women left behind for the guys that just have to have a relationship with women will find them more polite.

  131. Lyn87 says:

    Captain Obvious notes,

    “No No!” screams the apostate churchian. “We celebrate Christ’s resurrection! ”

    Yes that is why you play with easter eggs. A pagan symbol of fertility. Which is practiced on the same day as the pagan and has the same name…easter!

    Funny that you should mention that. When I was in grade school (third grade, I think), we were told to draw pictures with an “Easter” theme. (Obviously, this was when public schools still used terms like Easter and Christmas rather than Spring Break and The Holiday Season.) We even had a Christian prayer and a Bible quote over the schools P.A. system at the start of each school day.

    All the other kids drew bunnies, or eggs, or silly crap like that. I drew an open tomb with the stone rolled back. My teacher didn’t have the slightest idea why I would do such a thing, so I explained that the point of Easter was the Resurrection of Jesus. She gave me a “C” – which was something of an unusual experience for me.

  132. Durasim says:

    CafeMom always has such charming stories. Here’s one from a freshly divorced mother who admits she can’t get enough of her new boyfriend. She sometimes feels guilty because she can’t spend enough time with her 10 year old son, but not guilty enough to cancel her dates. And she figures that kids start getting independent at 10, so she shouldn’t feel bad.


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