Exploding 50 something pregnant women.

Drudge had a link today titled “More women waiting until 50 to have children…”.  The article it points to is from myfoxny.com, titled 51 and pregnant:

Tracey Kahn is a successful publicist. She is single, lives in a beautiful apartment in Manhattan, has a 2-year-old daughter, and is pregnant with [sic] again. She is 51.

And Kahn is not alone. A growing number of women [sic] putting off motherhood until middle age, especially in New York City, where younger women are career driven and put off growing a family.

Between 1997 in 2008 there was a fourfold increase in the number of women [sic] born to moms over 50 in the United States.

We’ve been through this before, but I decided to take a new look at the data since a few years have passed.  The Fox article doesn’t cite the source for the fourfold increase claim, but either way the essential fact they are leaving out is how incredibly rare it is for women over 50 to give birth.  It may well be a fourfold increase, but the actual numbers are so small as to be meaningless from a societal perspective.

I can’t find data specifically for women 50 and over, but the 2012 Statistical Abstract of the United States lists the number of births to women age 45 to 54 in Table 80 (PDF, xls).  Here is the age distribution of births in 2008, the most recent year data is available for:

2008birthsbyage540

Note the minuscule bar to the far right.  That is what all of the fuss is about.  Actually that isn’t even it, since it includes women 45 to 49 as well.  This lead me to see if I could tease out the difference by looking for years where births to mothers 45-49 and births to mothers 45-54 are both available.  By comparing the difference for known years, we can get a sense of how many of the most recent births are to women 50 and over.

Fortunately, the 2010 Statistical Abstract presents the data for 45-49 year old mothers, and the 2012 Statistical Abstract presents it for the larger bracket.  Here is the data for the oldest age bracket in the respective reports in one table:

combinedtable

Note that while there isn’t 2008 data for 45-49, the 45-54 values for 2006-2008 are constant.  Also note that there is no reported difference between births to women 45-49 and births to women in the larger bracket.  Whatever the fourfold increased value is for births to women 50 and older, it isn’t enough to round up to the next 1,000 in any of the years we have both figures for.  This means we are talking about fewer than 1,000 births in any given year.  The 45-54 bar on the graph above is a minuscule sliver, and births to women 50 and over are a too small to register sliver of that sliver.  While we may have gone from 25 to 100, or perhaps from 200 to 800 births to women over 50 between 1997 and 2008, this isn’t the kind sweeping change the news story no doubt left its readers thinking has occurred.  Births to women over 50 remain extremely uncommon, despite feminist propaganda to the contrary.

See also:  Charts on delayed motherhood.

This entry was posted in Aging Feminists, Data, Fantasy vs Reality, Fertility, Foolishness. Bookmark the permalink.

306 Responses to Exploding 50 something pregnant women.

  1. Pingback: Exploding 50 something pregnant women. | Manosphere.com

  2. Anonymous Reader says:

    Ok, this is right up TFH’s alley. Here we have clear evidence of feminist doubling down on a bad idea, and it’s of a piece with the previous “Slut made her a better Christian” posting. Femnism is increasingly not working, therefore femnists and various White Knights are doubling down, pushing harder on a string.

    Can’t wait to see how they take it to the next level…

  3. deti says:

    The headline is clickbait.

  4. I once said something like: Feminism – teaching that women’s prime fertile time of life is between 30 and 40, and that IVF is the natural means of conception.

    Seems like I need to add another 10 years to both those numbers.

  5. crowhill says:

    Dalrock, we have to celebrate every time women break some barrier. It doesn’t matter if it’s good or bad for them, for their children, for society, whether it’s moral or immoral. The point is that they’ve expressed themselves in a new way.

  6. infowarrior1 says:

    I guarantee that those children will have substantially more mutations than children born to younger women.

    There is a possibility that a much higher frequency of those children and their children’s children will have more deleterious mutations that may down the line cause disease

  7. Casey says:

    There is profit in misery………
    Hence divorce
    Hence geriatric pregnancy

    Misery for profit is one hell of a business model.

  8. bob says:

    Clicking on the link, we see this is written by: By JENNIFER LAHMERS, Fox 5 News Reporter

    Oh – a woman. Who would have guessed.

  9. Boxer says:

    This is literally insane. A woman who is fifty is likely married to a man who is fifty-three to fifty-five… That means that both of these idiots will be collecting pensions, before the kid is even out of the house.

    What the hell can fiftysomething people do with a little kid, anyway? They can’t keep up with him. They can’t jump on a trampoline or play tackle football, without risking a broken hip. Fiftysomething people should be grandparents, not new parents. It’s perverse.

  10. RobJ says:

    “…it isn’t enough to round up to the next 1,000 in any of the years we have both figures for. This means we are talking about fewer than 500 births in any given year.”

    There could be up to 999 births in any given year. For example, in 2007, the 45-49 births could be 6,500 and the 45-54 births could be 7,499. Both would round to 7 thousand, which is still minuscule.

    [D: Good catch. Thank you. Fixed.]

  11. Honeycomb says:

    Dalrock ..

    The feminists are moving the goal-post (re: career and marraige and kids too) out to a new norm (e.g. just like with defining deviance down) so the current crop of 38+ year olds (re: Evan Katz clients) can justify being a spinster until that man they were promised would be available / entitled to for their dedicated feminist effort.

    The feminist now have cover for pushing that career first mentality (because they aren’t marriage material .. i.e. fertile ground anymore) and justify there womb to a man looking for kids (e.g. the reason for marriage) in her age range (which she desires because those men have much higher SMV / MMV) and avoid them looking at younger women.

    Of course this all hamster rationalization by the MSM to prop up the prog-feminist-man-haters.

    This is just a PR war to tell everyone all is good on the feminist front (e.g. just like that dude that denied that the American’s where in Irag in the second Irag war .. as the American tanks rolled thru town on camera right behind him .. I think I recall that correctly).

  12. Anonymous Reader says:

    Boxer

    This is literally insane.

    Now you’re getting it…geriatric pregnancy [*] is not working out. So what to do?
    More Cowbell!

    [*] Typically this refers to pregnancy above a certain age. Guess what that number is? It is not 50, that is for sure.

  13. From this CNN article:
    http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/04/22/pregnancy.over.40/

    “So just how scary is it for a woman over 40 to have a baby? We asked physicians at the March of Dimes and the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecologists to set the numbers out for us.

    1. Higher risk of miscarriage
    At age 20: 1 in 10 women
    At age 35: 1 in 5 women
    At age 40: 1 in 3 women
    At age 45: 1 in 2 women
    Noncancerous tumors called fibroids and endometriosis, the abnormal growth of the lining of a woman’s uterus, can lead to a miscarriage.
    “Evolutionarily women generally reproduced in their teens and 20s. Centuries ago we didn’t live much longer than our 40s and 50s,” Fleischman says. “We haven’t changed the basic biology of how our ovaries and uterus work.”

    2. Higher risk of any chromosomal disorder
    At age 20: 1 in 526 births
    At age 30: 1 in 385 births
    At age 40: 1 in 66 births
    At age 45: 1 in 21 births
    Women are born with all the eggs they’ll ever have. As a woman ages, her eggs also age.
    “All genetic abnormalities increase as the egg gets older,” says Fleischman. “The eggs are stored in the ovaries, and there is a potential for change over time.”

    3. Higher risk of Down Syndrome
    At age 25: 1 in 1,250 births
    At age 30: 1 in 1,000 births
    At age 35: 1 in 400 births
    At age 40: 1 in 100 births
    At age 45: 1 in 30 births
    At age 49: 1 in 10 births
    As a woman ages, the risk of delivering a baby with Down syndrome increases. Down syndrome is a genetic disorder often caused by an error in cell division. There are multiple types of Down syndrome, and the exact cause is not known.

    4. Higher risk of gestational diabetes
    At age 20: 22 in 1,000 women
    At age 25: 36 in 1,000 women
    At age 30: 51 in 1,000 women
    At age 35: 67 in 1,000 women
    At age 40: 84 in 1,000 women
    Pregnancy stresses the body, requiring the pancreas to produce more insulin. In older women, having a baby can trigger diabetes during pregnancy.
    “We like to think of pregnancy as a stress test to the woman,” Fleischman says. “As you get older your pancreas is less able to respond to those stressors.”

    5. Higher risk of preeclampsia
    At age 20: 38 in 1,000 women
    At age 25: 37 in 1,000 women
    At age 30: 36 in 1,000 women
    At age 35: 39 in 1,000 women
    At age 40: 48 in 1,000 women
    Preeclampsia is a sometimes deadly condition of pregnancy marked by high blood pressure and protein in the urine. Often when a mother has preeclampsia, the baby needs to be delivered prematurely to save the lives of mother and baby.
    “Women as they get into their 40s may also have some hypertension already,” Fleischman says. “And if they do, they have a higher risk of that being exacerbated during pregnancy.” “

  14. Honeycomb says:

    Boxer ..

    They likely have a lot of money so they could hire someone to be physically involved with the little ones.

    IVF aint cheap!

  15. okrahead says:

    I would be willing to bet that these pregnancies do not involve the eggs of the birth mothers. More specifically, I recall that a few years back there was a great deal of chatter about young college women selling eggs for several thousand dollars per harvest. I expect the eggs of those young women have been through IVF and now are implanted in these older women, in which case you have babies being born to women to whom they have no genetic link. Now take your Soma and carry on.

  16. okrahead says:

    If she is pregnant at 51, then at she will be either 69 or 70 when the child is a legal adult, depending upon the variables of birthdays… I don’t even know what that means or what to make of it.

  17. fakeemail says:

    Women are their most beautiful and fertile between 13-20. Quite frankly, I wish I lived in a society where a teen girl was not expected to go college, but would be matched with a early 20 something man for marriage. But this man would only get her if he had positioned himself for promising work. Talk about male incentive! No more slackers, no more sluts!

  18. dood says:

    As someone who knows the inside story, a lot of these births are with donated eggs. So its not the woman’s biological child – but she gets to play “mommy” and gets positive attention

  19. infowarrior1 says:

    @theredpillsetmefree
    I feel pity for those children who resulted from the selfish decisions of their mothers.

  20. I feel pity for those children who resulted from the selfish decisions of their mothers.

    Indeed. As Okrahead said, we’re talkin’ 69 or 70 year old mothers, trying to get them off to college, or get them to the military, or help them establish their lives.
    What I like most about ‘Rock’s analysis is that he shows that the actual number of women doing this is minuscule. So it won’t be a LOT of college kids with 70 year old moms, but geez.

  21. And in terms of those kids who have birth defects….again, yikes.

    This is what YouGoGrrl culture does. It requires that all female decisions must be hailed or MISOGYNY.

  22. Mark says:

    @Dalrock

    Cool Post!

    This woman is NUTS! The comments that accompanied the article were also very good.I noticed that the majority of the men stated that she was “selfish”,while the women comments had a “you go grrllll” flavor to them.My take?….She is narcissistic,selfish c***.She should be entering menopause,not giving birth!

  23. Remnant says:

    @okrahead
    @ dood

    Quote from the article in question: “Kahn’s career kept her on hold until 49, when she had her first child Scarlett through in vitro fertilization. This time around at 51, she used the same procedure with the same donors.”

    Note the plural “donorS”. No doubt it was not her own eggs. The media pretend these issues don’t even exist. For probably 90% of the (very small) number of over 45 YOA births are with donor eggs.

  24. Mark says:

    @redpillsetmefree

    Sarah Palin is a good example of your stats.Remember when she had her last one? He was born with Downs Syndrome.Even though I believe that the pregnancy was an accident,she did decide to keep it.Of which I hold her in high regard for doing.You might also remember that she took a bashing from he Femi-Nazis because she did not…or would get an abortion.

  25. Lyn87 says:

    Here I sit, kind of sore. I’m about the same age as the woman in the article. I had a military career from which I am retired. I was lucky: I got through it with hardly a scratch. Not totally unscathed, but nothing worse than what might have happened to me anyway. The only projectile I ever caught was a bullet fragment from a ricochet at a civilian shooting range – that one didn’t even draw blood.

    I do karate – in fact, I expect to test for my 1st degree black belt in the next couple of months. (With the military moving me around I never got to finish at one place before I had to move and start over). But I can’t spar any more. It’s too bad, I used to love it – I even competed and did reasonably well. But I had to tell my sensei tonight that it’s time for me to hang up my gloves. It’s not only the neck injury I got as a Lieutenant – although that’s causing me trouble now after all these years. It’s also that I just don’t bounce like I used to. Even taking someone else to the ground the last time I sparred a few weeks ago hurt me more than the young fireplug dude whose feet I kicked out from under him. Shoot, I had a shoulder pop out of the socket while doing kata the other day!

    Given that, I cannot even imagine having two small children at this point in my life, knowing that I’d be around 70 when the last one finishes high school… and this woman is single. The world has truly gone mad when an unmarried woman my age can plop down a few thousand dollars and buy the eggs of a college girl and the sperm of some guy she picked out of a catalog, and have an actual team of doctors plant the fertilized eggs in her uterus. That HAS to violate the Hippocratic oath. Does it still have the part that says, “First, do no harm…”?

    If the ladies of Seneca Falls could see this I imagine they might repeat the words of Robert Oppenheimer regarding his work on the atomic bomb:

    “Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.”

  26. Sarah Palin is a good example of your stats. Remember when she had her last one? He was born with Downs Syndrome.

    Yep. And she wasn’t even honest about that. Not even with her family:
    http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2013/03/so-when-did-family-know-that-trig-palin.html

  27. Oscar says:

    @Boxer

    “What the hell can fiftysomething people do with a little kid, anyway? They can’t keep up with him. They can’t jump on a trampoline or play tackle football, without risking a broken hip.”

    Unless they’re one of these people.

    But you’re right; people in their 50s should be new grandparents, not new parents.

  28. Robin Munn says:

    @redpillsetmefree –

    I checked the link you posted. It seems that blogger is one of those “Trig birthers” who claims that Palin wasn’t Trig’s mother, but his grandmother, and claimed to be his mother to cover up the fact that her daughter had gotten pregnant out of wedlock.

    Given that, I’m not particularly inclined to believe anything that person has to say, nor believe that he/she is quoting secondary sources accurately. Do you have another link, to a more reliable source?

  29. Spike says:

    Numbers are hard to argue with Dalrock.
    Anecdotally though I can tell you many, many frivolous and downright stupid reasons women, most married, have put off having children:
    “I want to travel to …..”.
    “My job commitments don’t let me”
    “I want I get my black belt in (some martial art) first”.
    Inevitably, their poor bloody husbands end up extending the mortgage so that they can pay for IVF.
    Why should husbands have to mortgage their future for the sake of women’s selfish choices?
    In any other field of medicine, early detection of a problem has the greatest importance. Why isn’t this degree of importance placed on conceiving children when a woman is younger and therefore best able to?

  30. MarcusD says:

    Should I tell Wife of Affair
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=908242

    my husband loves another woman and can’t choose
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=908287

    How do you know if God wants you to marry?
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=908361

  31. Luke says:

    Couple thoughts here…

    1) There is an additional problem in older genetic mothers that is still only partially understood. It involves all mothers starting right around age 34, with not much variation. As the GM gets older, there is a roughly one-to-one tradeoff in decreasing life expectancy and vitality (health) of all daughters she conceives. So, a 39-YO GM has on average knocked about 5 years, or 7%, off the life expectancy and health of any daughters conceived with her eggs. For a 45-YO, it’s 11 years, or more like 14%. It’s not just “they die at 67 instead of 78, with everything the same til then”. Rather, all through life, the kid is less healthy and more likely to die, by those percentages. Not such a wonderful thing for a woman to perpetrate against an innocent little baby that she’ll eventually want to put in cute dresses and put bows in her hair. (There is very likely something similar going on for sons, but that was not the area of this study, one whose accuracy was confirmed for my wife and I by our fertility doctor.)

    2) I’m in my early 50s. My wife is near my age. We have two apparently completely healthy 2-year old fraternal twins. We used 23-YO egg donors + me to make them, along with a mid-20s gestational surrogate. Our path included some expensive genetic testing. I have no legitimate children, and my wife has grown children she had to raise on her own (worked 2+ jobs) following a divorce while the youngest was an infant (so she did not get to raise them as she would have liked). She is a SAHM and we intend to homeschool. This is the most trying (and most expensive) project in my life so far (ahead of even graduate school), but also the most worthwhile one. I don’t regret our doing this for a moment, even given that I will likely work until I die to support the 4 of us.

  32. I can’t help thinking that the purpose of articles like this is to fool girls into putting marriage off even further — to forestall baby rabies until a later age. Now, instead of planning to have her babies from 35-42 (and of course decent people have only 2, so she doesn’t need a long span of years), she can have them from 45-52. That gives her another decade to pursue fascinating careers, “meet” interesting men, and have “experiences” that will make her a better wife and mother when she gets around to it.

  33. So it won’t be a LOT of college kids with 70 year old moms, but geez.

    True, and I’m betting that the people writing these articles know that. They know there won’t ever be many women having babies at 50 (there still aren’t many having them after 40). But that’s not the goal; the goal is to convince girls that it’s okay to wait longer.

    I’m coming around to the idea that most everything the elites push these days, from feminism to diet to wars, is about population reduction.

  34. Antirevolutionary says:

    I agree with the main point of this post; I’m totally against mothers who are single by choice, IVF etc. On the other hand, I think some commenters are coming down too hard on women who give birth in their 40s. Some traditional Christian families often end up with mothers having children in their 40s, especially if they don’t use contraception. I’m referring to cases where the mothers had older children when they were in their 20s and 30s. The risks of these pregnancies are real, but traditionalists (especially traditional Catholics) would argue that these risks are worth taking. This actually puts even the most anti-feminist of these allies of the type of feminists we’re criticizing on this point, even if for entirely different reasons.
    Are there statistics
    available on the likelihood of women giving birth after age 40 without any fertility intervention?

  35. Mackus says:

    Bwahaha! You know, I was arguing with some feminist less than week ago, she called me sexist troll, because I dared to say than men like young slim women (she even used terms “unfair societal standards” lol). I also linked to a site with actual medical data (yourfertility org au), and pointed out that woman who gets pregnant in sixties (yes! she even said that “many women are getting pregnat in 60s”! xD) are selfish bitches for having babies that will be orphaned before they’re adults. And yet she insisted she has “great empathy for children”.

    And the most hilarious thing, is thats she’s a transwoman, married to a woman. But she still “defended rights” of “ciswomen” to have babies after 40s. (She also claimed in private post to me, that I called her “ignominious bitch”, neither word I used against her, and first word i hadn’t even known until now)
    I would gave up posting on her site even if she hadn’t banned me, because life is too short to argue with fools.

    Dalrock, you are wind beneath my wings.😀

  36. whatwasIthinking? says:

    Poor kids…. no offense, as I myself am an ‘older’ parent… but yikes, PTA meetings of the future will look like grandparents are attending.🙂

  37. whatwasIthinking? says:

    @ Luke: Sounds like your wife and you make a good team. I applaud the path and marvel at the idea of what it must be like to be raising twins, congrats! I have a 4 and a half year old son, at 42, and have had similar concerns about growing older and my health vs raising my child. Ironically, aside from having to respect the ‘flow’ of things and proper preperation – I am in better shape now in my life than ever as an adult. So who knows, cup half full – always!
    I can only imagine the challenge it is you and your wife have with this stage – but from one father to another – you hit it spot on, it is completely worth it and from what you write, it sounds like you are not only on top of it, but in a good relationship with a partner who’s equally invested and committed to the task at hand. Cheers

  38. honordads says:

    Never thought I’d see ‘exploding’ and ‘pregnant’ in the same sentence.

  39. Honeycomb says:

    Cail C.

    “That gives her another decade to pursue fascinating careers, “meet” interesting men, and have “experiences” that will make her a better wife and mother when she gets around to it.”

    That is what I was trying to say.

    As Dalrock has proven .. as more and more 38+ year olds can’t get married because the men they are after are going for younger women .. these feminist now can change their expiration date to avoid the stigma.

    This just provide cover for them .. the last thing they want is a bunch of women complaining about the men they were promised for their efforts not being available.

    Through MGTOW / RED PILL / etc and a larger number of younger future spinsters arriving / available to choose from these older women have been complaining and their masters have created there version Baghdad Bob ™.

    This Hamster ™ is gonna die an exhausted death.

    All I have to do is continue to be myself .. No More Mr. Nice Guy !!!

  40. earl says:

    “Tracey Kahn is a successful publicist. She is single, lives in a beautiful apartment in Manhattan, has a 2-year-old daughter, and is pregnant with [sic] again. She is 51.”

    When it comes to being a woman…all that sounds like a failure to me.

  41. This Business Insider article on Sarah Palin & her baby might be more on point:
    http://www.businessinsider.com/sarah-palin-trig-birth-2011-4

    I’m no longer sure *what* the truth is about Sarah’s child, but here she is talking about it in her own words:
    http://www.lifenews.com/2009/11/23/state-4591/

    Here’s another article that seems to suggest that she knew early on about the Downs Syndrome:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2096912/Sarah-Palins-touching-account-living-son-Downs-Syndrome.html

  42. I’m coming around to the idea that most everything the elites push these days, from feminism to diet to wars, is about population reduction.

    Hmmmm…….quite possible.
    I don’t quite know what their target numbers would be tho.

  43. earl says:

    “Hmmmm…….quite possible.
    I don’t quite know what their target numbers would be tho.”

    Supposedly 500 million.

  44. infobravenewman says:

    This is a public health risk. It truly is.

  45. Opus says:

    On an earlier thread I mentioned that Great Grandfather Opus was born late in the year 1847 – baptised according to the rites of the Established Church in early 1848 – and that his mother born in the year 1797 was thus fifty years old at the time. Great Grandfather Opus – whom I only missed by eleven year – was the youngest of nine and is said as a small boy to have held the reins of the horse of The Duke of Wellington. There was of course no IVF treatment at the time. Great Grandfather Opus has a rather unusual middle name but I did not know why or how he had acquired it.

    Recently I was looking at census returns when casually glancing up and down the list I was intrigued to note that that unusual middle name was also the surname of his parents’ next door neighbours. I had always assumed that I was last in the line of Opuses but now it appeared that I might be non-Opus.

    We will never know the reason for the unusual name or whether after-all Opus women have superior genes.

  46. Elspeth says:

    That is some crazy stuff! This is journalistic malpractice, presenting what is largely an impossibility as though it is something normal and healthy.

    I was 22 when our first was born. Pregnancy was a piece of cake. I was 36 when our youngest was born. The difference in my energy level and general feeling of well being was quite notable. I couldn’t imagine being pregnant in my late 40’s or early 50’s. Sounds terrifying, no matter how great of shape you might be in.

    For the record, I have absolutely no problem with married couples who eschew birth control reproducing from their 20’s straight through to their 40’s. This is the natural, God-ordained way things were done before it widely accepted that one should control their own fertility and do everything possible to mitigate all risks, real or imagined.

    Interestingly enough is that of the few families I know who have done just that, not one has a child with Down’s.

  47. Novaseeker says:

    It says that she did it through donors. I suppose anyone can do that if they want to — it is expensive and time-consuming, but it’s doable for anyone. I’m surprised she didn’t use a gestational surrogate (although it’s possible she did that — the article doesn’t say).

    49 is a bit late to decide to have a child, I think. I am not personally familiar with any case of a highly-educated professional woman doing that (and I’ve seen a lot of crazy things over the past 25 years of working with this cohort, as well as a lot of bog standard normal things). Most do marry, and do manage to have kids in the 30s range, so she’s pretty exceptional.

  48. Anchorman says:

    Here’s the plan:

    We go to your high school graduation at noon, hit the Denny’s for the Senior Citizen discount early dinner special by 3:30, and I’ll drop you off at your boyfriend’s for the weekend before I go to bed at 6.

  49. unwavering says:

    @Luke

    What you are your wife are doing is a ghoulish offense against God and Nature.

    Your the wife is using you and two young women to fulfill her fantasies of being the perfect mother. But she had her chance and should be happy she had a couple of her own and let it go. Does she think her biological grown children are nothing? Does she think children exist as objects to fulfill her ambitions? Do you think coming to a Christian blog and posting that crap about how you and your wife are going to be geriatric parents through artificial means is going to get you approval? Think again.

  50. sonofdeathswriter says:

    This idea is dumb. By the age of 50, I would be looking forward to see my children move out the house, start their own lives and be there to show them the way. This right here will have them moving out when I’m 70 years old. That is insane.

  51. Thinkn'Man says:

    “Tracey Kahn is a successful publicist”

    What a productive career. Right up there with wedding planning.

  52. theasdgamer says:

    @ Cail

    I’m coming around to the idea that most everything the elites push these days, from feminism to diet to wars, is about population reduction.

    Bingo.

  53. Opus says:

    @Thinkin’Man

    No one ever got to retirement and wished they had put in that bit more work so as to achieve greater success as a publicist. Even if she does it will not raise her SMV by so much as 0.1%.

    When it comes to offspring I think her brother Genghis had the better idea.

  54. Cane Caldo says:

    @Cail

    I can’t help thinking that the purpose of articles like this is to fool girls into putting marriage off even further — to forestall baby rabies until a later age.

    Agreed.

  55. Tam the Bam says:

    lol @ Opus

  56. Oscar says:

    @earl
    ‘“Hmmmm…….quite possible.
    I don’t quite know what their target numbers would be tho.”

    Supposedly 500 million.’

    500 million for the entire planet? That’s a tiny number for such a big planet. I think some of those “elites” may be rudely surprised to find themselves in the 6.5 billion who somehow get the ax. After all, it’s not as though the “elites” are going to design, build and/or repair anything on their own, or grow their own food. Such menial tasks are beneath them.

    Who gets to decide who makes the cut?

  57. Bucho says:

    I read the story and it seems as if there is no father in the picture.
    Hopefully she remains healthy enough to see her kids through graduation, since it doesn’t seem like there’s anyone in the picture to take over if she is unable due to health reasons down the road…..

  58. earl says:

    The 500 million number was one of the commandments on the Georgia Guidestones.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

    Whatever number they come up with…the who makes the cut decision plus all the other side effects are something elitists don’t think about. All they care about is getting as much false power as they can.

  59. Opus says:

    Her behaviour is of course infinitely more irresponsible than that of a young teenager who falls pregnant, and without the excuse of youthful impetuosity. Teenage pregnancy used to be shamed: Geriatric pregnancy deserves greater ignominy.

  60. earl says:

    The only ladies I was aware of getting pregnant in their mid-late 40s also had several children through their 20s and 30s.

    Having your first kid at that age is irresponsible.

  61. Lyn87 says:

    Stick with me – I’ll get to the point…

    About once a week I go over to my parent’s house for lunch. It’s a random, informal thing – I just show up if I’m in their neighborhood, or if I just decide to drop in. I know their schedule so I don’t even call ahead. I eat leftovers or make myself a sandwich and we sit around and talk about politics, or religion, or relationship dynamics, or whatever comes up – usually for a couple of hours before I go back to whatever I’m doing for work that day (I have an unusual job that allows me to do that).

    Anyway: we all drink coffee, but I’m the only one who puts creamer in mine. My parents bought a BIG jug of non-dairy creamer several months ago, and I was the only one who ever used it. Since I don’t go over all the time, it was a race between my using it an ounce at a time, and the effects of time on perishable items. Every time I poured myself a cup-o’-joe at their house I had to scavenge the bottle from the back of their refrigerator and sniff it to make sure it was okay. Over time it seemed to smell slightly different, but that might have just been me… but the date-stamp said it was still okay, so I kept using it with no ill-effects.

    Non-dairy creamer lasts for months if refrigerated, but last week the decay won. I took a swallow of my coffee and felt something semi-solid slip into my mouth. I reflexively spat it back into my mug, then poured it all out. The thing is – the bottle had not quite reached the expiration date.

    This thread reminds me of that. Women who put off child-bearing are in a race against their body’s ability to bear healthy children and then take care of them. Unlike bottles of creamer, though, uteri have no “use-by” date stamped on them. They just have to “sniff” (metaphorically, of course) for freshness. Past a certain age – younger than most of them realize – every month they get just-so-slightly less fresh. But articles like this give them the illusion that they have an actual “use-by” date, and that they can safely put off motherhood until then. Sure, some bottles of creamer will stay usable after the “use-by” date, and some women will naturally give birth to healthy children in their 50’s (although multiple previous births seem to influence that – if I understand correctly). But a woman would be foolish indeed to think that she will be one of the very rare women to pull it off, and put all her eggs in that one basket (pun intended), and pop out a couple of healthy kids around age 50. What the numbers say (and Dalrock is better at this than I am), is that once a woman reaches her mid-30’s, she is already in a race against her declining fertility. Unlike creamer, which won’t go bad until after (or at least near) the expiration date if refrigerated properly, some women will become functionally infertile as early as their 30’s, most will become so in their 40’s, and virtually all will be by 50. But a bad dollop of creamer is no big deal – I just spit it back into the cup that was already at my lips. A bad geriatric pregnancy can result in a lifetime of human suffering and premature death.

    I think of that line from the Pink Floyd song Time: “No-one told you when to run – You missed the starting gun…”

    By the way, when I went to my parent’s house for lunch yesterday I saw that they had picked up another bottle of creamer. Store-fresh, and a slimmer bottle than the last one – so it won’t go bad before it has served its function. I’m sure there’s a lesson there somewhere.

  62. When my wife was in the maternity ward giving birth to #6, there was a Mennonite woman in the next room giving birth to her 22nd child at the age of either 51 or 52. Because of the large populations of Amish and Mennonites in the area it wasn’t that unusual and her age wasn’t a subject of discussion amongst the hospital staff.

    I’m of the opinion that women who start making babies in their 20’s and keep having babies (10-15 is normal for those people) retain their fertility much later than women who use artificial birth control and wait til later in life to have their first child. And breast cancer is virtually unknown in these groups.

  63. earl says:

    OT: But one we’ve talked about before

    Another Catholic gal who loves to hamsterbate about how great divorce was for her.

    http://institute.catholicmatch.com/2014/09/new-life-after-divorce/

    http://institute.catholicmatch.com/author/hvoccola/

  64. “Never thought I’d see ‘exploding’ and ‘pregnant’ in the same sentence.”

    You obviously haven’t seen the preggo pics of Kim Kardashian. And you don’t wanna.

    Even as a kid, I had what I suspect was more insight than most of my peers, and I decided that fatherhood wasn’t in the cards, with the way the world and the women on it were headed. The thought of losing one’s parents is always scary, but it’s even scarier to think you might lose them before you’re barely out of your teens.

  65. Pingback: 50 is the new 25 Guys entering dad hood… | Honor Dads

  66. honordads says:

    Dad was a test-tube. So just one idiot on a pension (Medicare, whatever…)

  67. honordads says:

    Yep, and Trig’s mom is *oh the horror* actually married to his dad.

  68. Oh, but Dal, didn’t you know that men are contractually bound to women’s potential offspring once the sign a marriage license?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/07/opinion/alimony-for-your-eggs.html

    That’s the hope of a 38-year-old woman who is a client of Ronald G. Lieberman, a family law attorney in Haddonfield, N.J. Mr. Lieberman is asking his client’s soon-to-be-former husband of eight years to pay $20,000 to cover her egg-freezing procedure, medication costs and several years of egg storage. “When they got married, the expectation was they would start a family,” he told me. “Now she might not have the chance much longer.”

    You gotta love the Feminine Imperative’s logic.

    You might not know when your baby-making days are up, but you can calculate what it’s worth to preserve them. Figures vary by woman and by clinic, but the formula involves the cost of extraction surgery and freezing ($5,000 to $13,000, generally speaking), the number of eggs you can expect to get, the number you’re advised to stash away, your clinic’s success rate and the number of children you want.

    Retroactive cuckolding and Beta Bucks perpetuity, Ka-Ching!

  69. The Brass Cat says:

    The woman in the article is using donors therefore she is 0% genetically related to any resulting offspring. With the genetics factor removed, it would seem that adoption would be her first choice because it is the safer and more responsible route. Despite that she chose IVF over adoption. Her reckless choice indicates that she is more interested in having a pregnancy experience than actually being a parent… have a baby shower, show off her baby bump, etc. This is all quite selfish, to say the least.

  70. deti says:

    Rollo:

    Someone needs to tell that 38 year old frivorcee that women don’t need children.

    I have heard that from female bloggers and neophyte Christian “theologians”.

  71. anonymous_ng says:

    @Rollo, how did you miss this part?

    Then there’s the slippery slope: if a woman is to receive money to save her declining fertility, what’s to stop her from claiming to need breast implants or a face-lift because she used up her youth in the marriage?

  72. theasdgamer says:

    Oh, I may have forgotten to mention my new post about Soft Dread in the Song of Solomon. http://theasdgamer.wordpress.com/2014/09/08/implied-soft-dread-in-the-song-of-solomon/

  73. Anonymous age 72 says:

    >>They can’t jump on a trampoline or play tackle football, without risking a broken hip.

    B.S. Being old doesn’t mean your hips break easily. Listening to doctors means your hips break easily. Hips don’t easily break because you are old, but because your bones lose mineral density due to current dietary recommendations.

    If you are diagnosed with osteoporosis doctors tell you to take Fosamax, a horribly expensive medicine.

    A few competent doctors tell you if you take 1500 mg a day of calcium, you don’t get osteoporosis. My wife has been there, done that. She took Fosamax for several years, and when she started on calcium in a year or two it went away.

    Start today with 1500 mg a day of calcium, and enjoy your old age.

    You have a strange view of old age. Which tells me you are probably young.

    ###
    When you really get old, from time to time it is important for a couple to discuss what each should do if the other dies.

    A few years ago, my wife and I had THE TALK. I told her if I die, sell the house here in Mexico, go back to the States, and build a house with our daughter for them all to live in. She would rather be with them, anyway.

    She then asked me what I would do if she died first. I smirked and told her, “There will be babies in this house.”

    Talk about rage unleashed. Not because I would be having a baby, because that became impossible many years ago, thanks to modern surgical techniques. Here in rural Mexico there are a steady supply of young widows or single moms of good character with no marriage prospects who can think of several delightful ways to inherit a house…

    No, she was pissed that another woman would end up with the house she worked for. (Though in all fairness let me state that she actually paid very little of the cost. She decreed building plans then let me pay almost all of it though she has her own money.)

    She raged, “Some woman who did nothing to pay for this house will get what I worked for.”

    My wife sometimes shows signs of dementia. Any woman who gets this house will do A LOT for it. Trust me on this.

    Let me point out that my wife never doubted that I can have babies in this house – with Mom paying the rent in her own way. She is Mexican and knows every well that I can. That is why she freaked out.

    You can make your comments about what I can or cannot do at my age with babies. Not all things ‘dads’ do with kids that are important are physical. Some of the best memories kids have of their dads are not always limited to physical activities.

    I think this is in part a generation thing. My generation didn’t expect our dads to run or wrestle with us. Perhaps yours did?

    And, yes, I would not be there when those kids finish school. But, the choice is living in dire poverty with no father figure at all. Vs. living well with a father figure, during his lifetime, with income property after his death and then no more father figure. That is, no choice.

    I happen to be good with kids, even small babies. My own kids have all commented how I seem to be a wizard with babies and small kids. I tell them to get along with babies, you must think like a baby, and I do very well at it…

  74. The Brass Cat says:

    @TFH

    The woman in the article is evidently attacking at least two pillars:

    2) Men have an incentive to form families, and have some rights in this matter. –to her men are sperm donors, cattle-like breeding stock.
    3) Almost all children grow up living with both biological parents. –“Oh you want to know about your biological parents? Well, it’s complicated…”

  75. Random Angeleno says:

    I grew up in a large family; it’s typical in these families for the older children to help with the chores and the younger children as soon as they are able so I am familiar with the amount of effort that goes into having and managing larger families. Both fatherhood and motherhood are jobs for young men and women at least at the beginning. The idea being that if mother starts having children in her early to mid-20’s and gets pregnant again in her 30’s and 40’s, she already has lots of help still living in the house to compensate for her lower energy level. Plus father should have boosted his own income by that time. That’s the way large families work. That Mennonite mother with 22 children? The first 18 or so are either already out of the house or are helping with the family farm and household. Not like they are nothing but drains on the family purse.

    Another thing: my parents were not helicopter parents, they didn’t have time for that: it’s amazing how much freedom of movement we had back then. One learns a lot of self reliance in those environments. So I think that modern day couples with one or two children who complain about the work load are likely doing the helicopter thing and micromanaging their children’s lives. They could stand to throttle back on that.

    My mother once commented some years back that it was not that uncommon in the pre-hormonal birth control days for women to bear babies in their early to mid 40’s. Not a high percentage or anything like that, but often enough that it was taken for granted. When I asked her about the family situations, she said that in every case she knew about, the mother already had previous children, sometimes several of them. Contrast that with today’s publicized scenes featuring women in their mid-40’s and older having their *first* children. What a burden they will become with mommy demands her retirement bennies along with her child support. How about daddy having to work past retirement in order to see the kid(s) off to college. Palm, meet forehead.

  76. Elspeth says:

    Anonymous Gentleman 72 is right. Not all old men are frail and feeble. Increased frailty is a fact of growing older, and some people are just never as healthy as others, even when they are young. But if the men in our family are any indication, you can very vital and useful for longer than most people realize.

    I have noticed something about the ages of mothers over the past 20-odd years. When our oldest were in school, I was younger than all the other mothers of elementary aged children. In my mid to late 20’s they were mostly all in their mid 30’s. Except for the Latina moms.

    Now, and this is even among the Christian home school mom set, I am roughly same the age (early 40’s) as women who have children the in classes with my 8 and 6 year-olds. Some of them even a little older than me. The difference is that very few of these women have children that are older than 8 or 10 years old. And a lot of them are surprised to know that we have a kid graduating college in the upcoming spring. Invariably I hear some version of, “Wow, you guys started young!”

  77. Elspeth says:

    My point with all that (up there) is that they have successfully convinced almost all women to put off childbearing until a pretty tenuous and risky age. I can’t imagine what the incentive would be to move the age further north other than to effectively stop women from reproducing altogether. Which is stupid because then only the women with no education and/or poor future time orientation will bother to reproduce (by accident). While all of the so-called smart women wait until it’s too late.

  78. Pro-Truth says:

    @Chris Dagostino:
    September 11, 2014 at 10:27 am

    You obviously haven’t seen the preggo pics of Kim Kardashian. And you don’t wanna.”

    Personally, I don’t want to see any pics of Kim Kardashian. Sure, I guess other guys might think she’s attractive, but all I see is a whole lotta NOPE.

    @cali

    “I’m coming around to the idea that most everything the elites push these days, from feminism to diet to wars, is about population reduction.”

    Population control is one of the hallmarks of fascism (or should I say totalitarianism,) the road the first world seems to be gleefully running towards.

  79. Panzer101 says:

    I thought this story about a wife choosing to leave her husband behind to join the Mars One mission was relevant here: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29130853

    The comments where people say, “This is what commitment is really about,” are repulsive to me. Commitment is about a woman leaving her husband and step kids voluntarily and the pathetic husband saying how wonderful it is that he will never see his wife again because SCIENCE and GLASS CEILINGS? I also love how the woman is aghast that she received negative comments on Twitter. The horror! Someone opposed a woman’s right to choose to do whatever she wants!

  80. Oscar says:

    @Anonymous age 72

    “A few competent doctors tell you if you take 1500 mg a day of calcium, you don’t get osteoporosis. My wife has been there, done that. She took Fosamax for several years, and when she started on calcium in a year or two it went away.”

    The most effective method to prevent – and treat – osteoporosis for both sexes is strength training. Your body needs a stimulus to induce it to actually deposit in your bones the calcium you ingest. Strength training provides that stimulus.

    Expecting your bone density to improve – and stay that way long term – by simply ingesting more calcium is like expecting your muscles to grow – and stay that way long term – by simply ingesting more protein.

  81. Gunner Q says:

    redpillsetmefree @ 6:11 am:
    “I’m coming around to the idea that most everything the elites push these days, from feminism to diet to wars, is about population reduction.

    Hmmmm…….quite possible.
    I don’t quite know what their target numbers would be tho.”

    The target number is one. One last man alive to crown himself the winner. It’s counterintuitive because then the last guy dies, too, but Pride is like that. A greedy man wants a huge house. A proud man will happily accept a tiny shack if, in exchange, he can force his neighbor to live in a gutter.

    This is why our elites keep doubling down on the policies destroying America. They don’t want to be one of many successful people, they want to be the ONLY successful person. Even their allies are ultimately viewed as tools. The best way to twist their knickers, if you ever get the chance, is to talk positively about how life is not a zero-sum game. They hate the idea that their success might not come at the expense of yours.

    In fact, anybody who insists/demands that life is zero-sum probably suffers from Pride. It’s something you can look for in a debate.

  82. The Brass Cat says:

    TFH, your pillars are good. I’d add to that:

    7) Structure immigration laws to encourage the “best and brightest” to immigrate, and encourage them to stay here to prevent “brain drain,” while disincentiving unskilled immigration.

    Quality > Quantity

  83. tz2026 says:

    You miss the most important point. She is NOT the mother. She simply provided the womb. The egg came from a “donor”.

    She bore SOMEONE ELSE’S child. And maybe then adopted it. But it isn’t her baby.

    With enough Frankenscience, a crone can be made to accept an implanted embryo and carry it to term.

    But splitting sex from procreation, genetics from carrying the baby, and the rest, this is our brave new world.

  84. whorefinder says:

    this article is to give all the loveless, unfeminine, fat loudmouth slutwalkers a false escape hatch from reforming themselves and making men happier by being their good wives.

    And the elite’s work to destroy the Irish in the U.S. goes on…

  85. Antirevolutionary says:

    Good point about adoption, The Brass Cat. If these women must have children, I’d much prefer that they adopt. At least those children would not have stable two-parent families anyway, and will generally have a better home than they would have had. Yet another example of how selfish these women are. And let’s pray that the Mars One thing never actually takes off.

  86. Antirevolutionary says:

    That being said, I do think that delayed marriage may work out in some cases. I’m considering marriage to a woman now who is one year older than me. We would be around 30 by the time a wedding would happen in a year or two. She is from a very traditional family and we are both virgins. We read lots of comments here by men who have trouble meeting women at all. The same may be true of some women, especially those who are trying to stay out of the short shallow relationships that most people get into these days.

  87. TWS says:

    Don’t worry that 500 million are not all elites. They want small communities at home and near their recreation areas to provide services when they are vacationing in the rainforest or at the beach. You might be among the lucky 200 to 1000 peons allowed to live in shotgun shacks within busing distance of their cabins, beach, or favorite riverside restaurant. Electricity is shut off after eight and not back on until four am, you won’t be allowed access to the recreational areas unless you are working, and you’ll be wearing a service uniform at work but you’ll be alive.

  88. Binky says:

    More and more adult children of IVF frankenscience are asking to know about their genetic parents, especially the absent fathers who `made a donation`. This woman is selfishly & deliberately violating the natural and human rights of any children she somehow has created, not only by denying the right every child has (where possible) to have a mother AND a father, but also grandparents, uncles and aunts, the whole panoply. Essentially, she made her reproductive choices in her 30s, but wishes to reverse the consequences of her choices. New York– the elephant graveyard of ovaries. The real question of such technology: just because we CAN do a thing does not mean that anybody should DO such a thing. But `ye shall be as gods`, promised the Serpent.

  89. Oscar says:

    @TWS

    “Don’t worry that 500 million are not all elites. They want small communities at home and near their recreation areas to provide services when they are vacationing in the rainforest or at the beach. You might be among the lucky 200 to 1000 peons allowed to live in shotgun shacks within busing distance of their cabins, beach, or favorite riverside restaurant.”

    For each “elite” that exists, it probably takes hundreds of non-“elites” to make their “elite” existence possible.

    Somebody has to grow food, generate electricity, build roads, extract raw materials, process raw materials, manufacture stuff with those raw materials and maintain/repair all of it. Hell, “elites” poop just as much as the rest of us, and all that poop has to go somewhere! Their drinking water has to come from somewhere, and it has to be sanitized before they can drink it.

    My point is that, even if the “elites” somehow manage to fulfill their dream of exterminating 6.5 billion humans, the vast majority of the 500 million survivors would have to be non-“elites”. Non-“elites” who would undoubtedly be righteously pissed off at the extermination of the vast majority of the human race.

    And all those non-“elites” have to do to exterminate the “elites” is nothing.

  90. Luke says:

    The Brass Cat says:
    September 11, 2014 at 11:11 am
    “The woman in the article is using donors therefore she is 0% genetically related to any resulting offspring. With the genetics factor removed, it would seem that adoption would be her first choice because it is the safer and more responsible route. Despite that she chose IVF over adoption.”

    You almost certainly know very little about the current workings of the adoption business in the U.S. to take such a position. Due to the combination of rampant abortion, the near-end of social shunning/religious conviction discouraging bastardy, and young women enabled by the welfare state in keeping any bastards they pop out, there are very, very few healthy white infants available for adoption in the U.S. any longer. If you can settle for a slightly retarded LD mulatto 8-YO with anger issues and a history of theft/playing with matches/cruelty to small animals and younger children to constitute your family, then adoption can probably work for you. Believing that no one should be allowed to produce an infant by unusual means until all unadopted orphaned minor children in this country has been adopted is on the level with believing that nobody should be allowed to make/sell/buy a new car until such time as every used-car dealer has sold its last “oil change? What’s THAT?” used car, and every junkyard has sold its last wrecked car.

    Uh, no. Some of us have higher standards for children than that. It’s like not buying an ill-trained 5-YO mongrel with bad health and unknown history, but holding out for an 8-week old puppy in good health of known parentage. Humans have more capacity to produce children than we do to raise them properly; it makes nothing but sense to maximize the health (includes genetics) of the ones we do have from the very beginning. I look forward to a day when no more children with Downs, Tay-Sach, genetic deafness/blindness, heightened susceptibility to homosexuality, Sickle Cell Anemia, Huntingdon’s Syndrome, etc., etc., are ever born, at least in the First World.

  91. Lyn87 says:

    Luke writes,

    …there are very, very few healthy white infants available for adoption in the U.S.

    and

    If you can settle for a slightly retarded LD mulatto 8-YO with anger issues and a history of theft/playing with matches/cruelty to small animals and younger children…

    Okay, I get the healthy, not-retarded, no-anger-issues, no learning disorders, etc… But what’s with the racial stuff? You list “white” among the desirable traits (you don’t know if Brass Cat is white), and you list “mulatto” along with the undesirable traits. I and others have gone round with this before and I don’t wish to reopen an argument about old-versus-new definitions, but the original meaning of the word “mulatto” is anyone of mixed-race parentage. It was first used in the New World to describe the first-generation offspring of Europeans and Amerinds. By that definition, I am one myself (although the common modern definition doesn’t usually include people like me).

    Are you seriously contending that the “white race” is superior? I certainly hope not, and if so, you should clarify so as not to give our opponents cause to claim that the MRM is racist.

  92. Luke says:

    Lyn87, here’s the deal. I figure everyone reading this is emotionally and intellectually mature enough to make up their own minds what certain facts mean for them. People very predominantly prefer their own. That’s why it’s unusual for anyone to adopt across racial lines (and when it’s done in the U.S., it’s most likely a white UMC couple adopting an Asian or Eurasian female infant/toddler). I knew long ago that even same-race adoption would never be for me, that it would feel too much like being a volunteer to be the human equivalent of a victim of brood parasites such as magpies, cuckoos, and whydahs. (Alternatively, think of how a man typically feels when paying child support for a distant child that’s not even “his” genetically.) If this wasn’t a usual general drive among people, there would be little worry about matching up the correct infant with the original mother before leaving the maternity ward to go home, paternity suits, DNA testing for paternity/other parentage, etc. And, yes, that would apply even more strongly for me, and for many other people, to cross-racial adoptions.

    Now, I agree that adoption often serves a useful social purpose. It’s just not for me, and never was.

    P.S.: If you truly want to get into comparisons of differences between races, well, there’s no shortage of material on that. Compare bastardy rates by race, per capita GNP by nation (especially if oil exporters are excluded), which race ended slavery (or wrote the Magna Carta/U.S. Constitution/Declaration of the Rights of Man), demographics of prisoners serving time for violent crimes or on welfare, and who gets Ph.D.s in engineering or winners of Nobel Prizes in science/Field Medal winners, for starters. However, I suspect Dalrock would dislike such a conversation, so if you’ll allow me, we’ll drop the subject here.

  93. unwavering says:

    Luke says:

    Believing that no one should be allowed to produce an infant by unusual means until all unadopted orphaned minor children in this country has been adopted is on the level with believing that nobody should be allowed to make/sell/buy a new car until such time as every used-car dealer has sold its last “oil change? What’s THAT?” used car, and every junkyard has sold its last wrecked car.

    Humans have more capacity to produce children than we do to raise them properly; it makes nothing but sense to maximize the health (includes genetics) of the ones we do have from the very beginning. I look forward to a day when no more children with Downs, Tay-Sach, genetic deafness/blindness, heightened susceptibility to homosexuality, Sickle Cell Anemia, Huntingdon’s Syndrome, etc., etc., are ever born, at least in the First World.

    At least people with Down’s Syndrome are not capable of such vulgar reductionism and objectification of human life. Thanks for the confirmation though that both you and your wife view children as objects to “maximize” for your own benefit.

  94. Pingback: Solipsism on Steroids AKA the Blame and Projection Parade | RedPillPushers

  95. Luke says:

    No, unwavering, what’s going on is either or both of my capacity to use logic all the way to truth exceeds yours tonight, or I value human health and potential for achievement more than you do. You tell me which one it is.

  96. unwavering says:

    Oh dear, Luke, is that the best you can do? It is unfortunate that you have lauded your own imagined ability to use “logic all the way to the truth” in such a poorly constructed sentence.

    My principles include: “It is not permissible to do evil that good will come of it.” Children are a procreation of the husband and the wife. Yours aren’t. They are not even adopted, they are manufactured.

  97. Luke says:

    “TFH says:
    September 11, 2014 at 7:00 pm

    ” how even the lowest-IQ white is superior to the highest IQ non-white. “

    Sigh. No, I’m actually aware that North Asians run a bit higher average IQ than do whites. (Jews run highest, with Hispanics averaging below whites, and blacks below Hispanics overall.)

    “Luke goes even further than that. He says that even the lowest IQ white is superior to the highest-IQ non-white, while simultaneously believing that if a non-white reproduces with a white, the offspring will always have much lower IQ and be unable to earn a good living in a first-world country.”

    Fake straw man. What NWs are is “not mine”. I believe that raising one (or importing a bunch of them into my neighborhood, company I own, etc.) would be like paying the monthly payment on some stranger’s mortgage; not criminal, but I hardly see the point. (I don’t need to invite you to move to central Detroit, a reasonable thing to do in 1950, but not so much now, to prove my point.)

    Re miscegenation, do feel free to tell me which of Prince Rogers Nelson’s or Obama’s parents those two more take after, visually and culturally. Anyway, more than a few hybrid people have expressed resentment that they’re neither fish nor fowl, so to speak, not fully belonging in either of their parents’ worlds.

    Lastly, you do know about what historically commonly eventually happens to multiethnic states (defined as where there is not one discrete group that is at least 80%)? Think Yugoslavia, Lebanon, the USSR, Iraq now, ad infinitum. Just as good fences make good neighbors, people having their own homes (with just their families) tend to work out better, with less violence and instability. Surely we can all agree that limiting those last two is desirable. Anyway, it’s kind of moot; saving only disasters like Yugoslavia, the general trend of history of the world since WWI has been to increasingly move towards monoethnic states. The West in the past 40 or so years is not an exception, as it would seem to be; it’s just in transition towards a different set of such monoethnic states (Hispanic in U.S. southwest, Muslim Arabs in Europe, etc.).

  98. unwavering says:

    By the way, since you say you are big on maximizing health, did you also pay a wet nurse to suckle your manufactured children?

  99. Luke says:

    No, unwavering. My wife attempted to induce lactation without success. So, several of her younger friends with infants who were breastfeeding that had extra donated it to us. Our babies were on breast milk for about 15 months. (I also knew to supplement with Vitamin D and Iron very early, as BM tends to run short in those.)

  100. unwavering says:

    Well, bravo for you. You did have wet nurses and you didn’t have to pay them. I rest my case.

  101. Lyn87 says:

    TFH says of Luke,

    “Luke goes even further than that. He says that even the lowest IQ white is superior to the highest-IQ non-white.”

    Not that I doubt you, but do you have a link handy? I’d like to see that by his own hands, or an admission by him here. It’s one thing to point to “cultural achievements” in the general sense – tenuous, but at least not something to be immediately dismissed – it’s another thing to suggest that some meth-head, violent, white-trash punk with an I.Q. of 80 and a rap sheet longer than my arm is “superior” to me because half of my ancestors lived in Central America 500 years ago. Or do I count as “white?” “Honorary White,” maybe?

    Jesus died for both of us equally, so I am no more inherently worthy of redemption than he is – in that sense we’re equal. But to suggest that he represents superior “racial hygiene” as an individual

    Yikes.

  102. Luke says:

    unwavering says:
    September 11, 2014 at 7:47 pm
    “Well, bravo for you. You did have wet nurses and you didn’t have to pay them. I rest my case.”

    I don’t understand what point you’re making here, unwavering. These women produced and froze far in excess of their child’s consumption. (Multiple chest freezers full was not rare.) The stuff isn’t good indefinitely, so it would have just gone in a dumpster in most cases. Twice, a mother whose toddler had just self-weaned gave us her accumulated stock. Clearing out their freezers while knowing that it wouldn’t go to waste was desirable to these other women. My wife was usually friends with them before the subject came up, also, so going over to their houses for an hour or two every once in a while to get their oldest milk was kind of social for them, too.

  103. Luke says:

    Oh, and donating to a milk bank is a poor choice in the view of many potential BM donors. Such organizations are annoying (and often expensive) for donors to deal with. Further, they use heat sterilization on all donated milk, destroying much of what makes it superior to formula.
    (When we had to use formula, we used this pricey stuff from the U.K., Neocate, I think it was, which is more digestible and has less soy than the main U.S. brands.)

  104. unwavering says:

    @Luke

    I also knew to supplement with Vitamin D and Iron very early, as BM tends to run short in those.

    If evolution works so well, why would this be the case? I’m not saying it is, I’m just wondering how you square this with your beliefs. Moreover, if Nature has evolved so that geriatrics can’t have babies, isn’t there a probable reason for that? Therefore, by going against that with artificial means, aren’t you negating your own beliefs? I also note that, as a Christian, this goes against my sense of right and wrong, since I believe God designed Nature to suit our needs.

    Therefore, it would seem that whether you take a eugenics/evolutionary viewpoint or an Intelligent Design viewpoint, parents procreating babies when they are above 50 years old doesn’t fit with either paradigm.

  105. unwavering says:

    Luke, I can see that you’re a successful man, and as you know, men often don’t hit the major part of their success until their 50s. It’s too bad that by the time your kids reach that age, you most likely won’t be around to see it.

    What kind of relationship do you think you will have with your grandchildren? You had kids at 50ish, so if these kids have kids when they are 50ish, well, I’m sure you can use your superior logic to figure that out.

  106. Lyn87 says:

    @ TFH,

    Muchas gracias, amigo.

    @ unwavering (September 11, 2014 at 8:01 pm)

    As the kids say, Oh, SNAP! (They still say that, right?)

    I would think that “can’t reproduce and raise offspring without someone else’s eggs, or sperm, or breast milk” would indicate individual genetic inferiority. But what do I know? I’m just a dumb-ass mulatto.

  107. Robin Munn says:

    The focus on race is usually a mistake, because the real differences are caused by culture, not race. Take two people of the same race and have them grow up in different cultures, and you’ll get very different outcomes. E.g., a white person growing up in an inner-city ghetto and absorbing that culture, v.s. someone with the same genes growing up in a community that values hard work and independence and absorbing that culture. Or look at African-Americans who grew up in the toxic culture of most inner cities, and compare them with recent immigrants from Africa, who grew up in a culture where you’re expected to work as hard as you can. (Not every African culture believes this, sadly — but some do, and I’ve met plenty of African immigrants to America who had nothing but contempt for the inner-city “the world owes me something” attitude. Guess which immigrants tended to put in the hard work needed to succeed? Yeah.)

    In fact, comparing African-Americans to recent African immigrants is an excellent way to separate out the concepts of race and culture. Because most of the racists like Luke will claim that the white race is superior… but if that were true, then the African-Americans should have an advantage over the recent immigrants. Because the ugly history of slavery in America, and how often attractive slave women were raped by (or slept willingly with) their masters, means that most African-Americans have quite a bit of European ancestry. (Hence the “one drop” rule the KKK had, because otherwise they wouldn’t have been able to despise the people they hated.) So if the successes of predominantly-white cultures are due to race as Luke claims, then the African-Americans should have an advantage over the recent African immigrants, because those immigrants have very little European genetics in their ancestral makeup. But if, as I claim, the difference has far more to do with culture than with race (you’ll have an advantage if your culture taught you to work hard, while you’ll be disadvantaged if your culture taught you an entitlement mentality), then the reverse will be true, and the African immigrants who come from “work as hard as you can” cultures will be found to be succeeding far more often than the African-Americans who come from “the world owes me something” cultures.

    Disclaimer: I am not saying that all African-Americans come from entitlement cultures, nor that all African immigrants come from “work hard” cultures. As should be obvious to anyone willing to use their brain, but I figured I’d better head off one deliberate misinterpretation before it actually happens. Because if I had not posted this disclaimer, someone would be claiming that that’s what I was saying.

  108. Snowy says:

    So the fifty something pregnant women are exploding? I’m sure they are!

  109. Luke says:

    Unwavering, as a man in his 40s (which I was when my children were conceived), it’s quite usual to still be able to sire healthy children. I suppose I could theoretically have followed the traditional (pre 1900s) route for an UMC man of my age to start a family, which would have been to marry and impregnate a younger woman, under 30 certainly. (Our ova donors and GS were all aged 23.) However, as a fellow reader of this forum, surely you’re as aware as I am how few younger U.S. women aren’t morally and otherwise wrecked. My wife was post-Wall/post-fertile, knew it to her bones, and wanted a chance to “do it right” (with raising children). Together, she’s been able to have that. Our kids are running about 80th percentile for their ages on every measure of intellectual and other development their pediatrician uses. Routinely, my wife will chat with other women, and be told how well-behaved, intelligent, and happy our children clearly are. Due to my professional level (over 85th percentile in U.S. income), we’re abler to afford all sorts of organic/super-healthy food for them. (Grass-fed beef, wild-caught Alaska sockeye salmon, organic blueberries, organic avacado, organic beet/dandelion/kale greens, organic free-range eggs, pure Minnesota wild rice, no wheat/sugar/soy, that sort of stuff, are what they get to eat for most meals.) Aside from being able to afford the various supplements that we have them on (D, nonsynthetic multivitamins, fish oil precursors, iodine and other minerals, etc.), it took a while to learn what I have about deep nutritional needs in humans (ones that the typical U.S. diet does not provide well). There are lots of ways these kids are better off than if I’d had them with my first GF. (She’s now a barren, bitter blimp pagan with multiple tattoos with 3 failed marriages and no accomplishments post-HS.) My current wife is a much better mother than I believe she’d have been.

  110. A Visitor says:

    “I want to travel to …..”.
    “My job commitments don’t let me”
    “I want I get my black belt in (some martial art) first”.

    Granted I’m not five years younger (27, almost 28). When I do marry though which is going to be hopefully with in the next few years, I’m gonna marry a woman years younger than me (we’re talking early 20s). Besides making sure she is a devout Catholic, we’re going to get to making the next generation ASAP.

    Those list of excuses is why women in their late 20s, early 30s can’t conceive. They realize they want children but it’s much harder, if not too late.

    “I’m coming around to the idea that most everything the elites push these days, from feminism to diet to wars, is about population reduction.”

    Cail, that’s a given.

    @Elspeth

    Thanks for your anecdotal evidence.

    @Anchorman

    LOL! Thanks!

    @unwavering

    Thanks for correcting him fraternally.

    “I read the story and it seems as if there is no father in the picture.” Über selfish on her part for having done this period. Not having a father figure is just icing on the satanic cake.

    “I’m of the opinion that women who start making babies in their 20’s and keep having babies (10-15 is normal for those people) retain their fertility much later than women who use artificial birth control and wait til later in life to have their first child. ”

    That wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

    “One should note that even the Duggar mother, who is highly fertile with 19 kids, is apparently unable to conceive after the age of 44 or so, and miscarried her final kid, since they don’t use drugs or treatments…”

    I love how the resident feminist where I live screeches they need to use birth control. If they can afford to financially support 19 kids, what’s wrong with that?

    @Rollo

    Classic, boss! Classic!

    “Another thing: my parents were not helicopter parents, they didn’t have time for that: it’s amazing how much freedom of movement we had back then. ”

    The ’70s (I’m assuming you’re referring to that) were another epoch. I was born in the mid-80s and it’s amazing what a decade can do.

    @Panzer101

    It’s extremely irresponsible of her and her step husband is either a) whipped b) as selfish as she is or c) both.

    @Lyn87

    Yes, they still do.

  111. unwavering says:

    @Luke

    Are they in the 80th percentile among white kids with fathers in the 85th percentile of earnings, or does that include all the Hispanics, blacks, mulattoes, etc.?

  112. Charlotte says:

    Luke, the twins may be your biological children, but your wife exploited a young woman by harvesting her eggs, then exploited another young woman by paying her to carry the babies you bought. She then adopted the children who have two biological mothers and one biological father, and wants to pretend to be their mommy at age 50. I don’t know why you two chose to delay parenthood until almost retirement age, or what choices you two made that put you in a position of being unable to have them at a reasonable age, but there are very good reasons the children brought about in situations like this and by people like you are now advocating for it to be banned. It is selfish and exploitative. Children deserve better. They are not playthings to be bought and sold by older women who feel entitled to have them regardless of the impact on the children themselves.

  113. Luke says:

    The “rounding down” comment I made (and stand by) is as much cultural as it is genetic. (A hybrid is “not mine”.) Robin is correct that culture is extremely important. The native-born blacks had a culture considerably closer to that of traditional northern European prior to the welfare state destroying their families, just going by their illegitimacy rates, violent crime propensity here, etc. (Not as good as whites then, but much better than those are now.)

    Re the amount of white blood native-born blacks have, I believe it’s estimated to average something like 15%; not trivial, but not decisive, either.

    ====================================================================
    Re “I would think that “can’t reproduce and raise offspring without someone else’s eggs, or sperm, or breast milk” would indicate individual genetic inferiority.”

    It was my wife who could not nurse, so no relationship there. I have been responsible for other pregnancies (in my pre-Christian days), so aside from my sperm testing out just 3 years ago to be normal in count and health, I can certainly conceive a child the usual way.

    ==============================================================

    Relationship with my children in their 50s: barring possible but unproven future medical advances, I expect to be dead before they’re 40. However, I’m writing a lengthy essay for them to have when older on my beliefs, along with assembling a collection of books, articles, etc., that I believe contain much life wisdom. Even if I get hit by a rig truck next summer, they’ll have that for a father (along with the life example I set, the life insurance on me, etc.).

  114. Oscar says:

    I’ll throw my hat in this ring.

    I’m a Latin American immigrant to the US with degrees in Mechanical and Geological Engineering who recently commanded American Soldiers in combat.

    My wife (an American of German descent with some Amerindian thrown in) and I adopted a sibling set of five Ethiopian children. It’s the best thing we’ve ever done, and we’re unlikely to outdo ourselves in that respect.

    According to Luke, however, adoption makes us “the human equivalent of a victim of brood parasites”. Worse still; brood parasites from those icky brown races.

    Fortunately, the Bible presents a higher view of both adoption and humanity.

    James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

    Colossians 3:11 Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

  115. Luke says:

    Unwavering, I believe that the charts their doc uses are for all children of their age. I’m not completely certain, though, now that you mention it. I’ll ask him the next time I see him, as I’d like to know as well.

    Charlotte, re “exploiting” those 3 young women: one and perhaps two were clearly careerist, likely to delay having children themselves until too late (no husband-hunting til post-Wall tends to go badly, as any habitual reader of Dalrock knows). You could think that it was an earlier case of them having children that they put up for adoption; genetically, that’s more true than not. (One had donated before, one had not.) Plus, they got to have genetic children, when they might not have ever gotten around to it on their own. This is a motivation for more than a few sperm donors.

    Our surrogate was a SAHM with few credentials/job skills whose husband did not make much money; she was able to bring in >$30K legally while staying at home with her child. (She since has had another child, more affordable for them due to her being a GS.)

  116. infowarrior1 says:

    @Elspeth

    Its probably because they start bearing children young. And this may be having a protective effect on children born later.

  117. Luke says:

    Oscar, I’ve been discussing who belongs in my family, or America, not who belongs in Heaven. God will decide that last one; men, the middle one; my wife and I, the first.

  118. bradford says:

    @unwavering

    Why do you insist on being so very unpleasant (bitchy). You don’t approve of Luke’s method of having children. We get it. Where does it say in the Bible that IVF is sinful? Why don’t you give it a rest.

  119. Antirevolutionary says:

    Glad we’re going after racialist nonsense here. I have never been prouder to be a reader of this site.

  120. Oscar says:

    @Luke

    “Oscar, I’ve been discussing who belongs in my family, or America, not who belongs in Heaven. God will decide that last one; men, the middle one; my wife and I, the first.”

    And I’m pointing out that your criteria are Biblically indefensible.

  121. bradford says:

    I have to say that Luke’s reservations about adoption don’t seem so unreasonable to me. I know many, perhaps most adoptions turn out fine, but to say there is no reason for concern I think is unrealistic. I personally know of issues a friend of mine has had with his adopted children. Brad, a frequent poster on this blog has related issues he has had with his adopted children. There is a risk. Each individual must judge for themselves if they are willing to take it.

  122. Boxer says:

    I have never had a problem with the White (or Black) racist/nationalist types who can be found in the androsphere. That said…

    According to Luke, however, adoption makes us “the human equivalent of a victim of brood parasites”. Worse still; brood parasites from those icky brown races.

    White dudes who feel this way should do their duty by wifing up a hot White woman and having a zillion White kids. Too many of them act like aging yentas, telling other men what they should and shouldn’t do, which is a waste of their time as they ought to be living the dream of expanding the White population.

    For those of us (like me) who don’t feel so strongly about such stuff, a few thoughts: I find that I have much more in common, in every conceivable way, with a Black or Asian dude, than I have with any White woman. Go down to the divorce courts and see how men of various racial, religious and ethnic backgrounds are treated. It’s pretty much unanimous in that regard, and that’s more important to me than any squabble about color or first language.

  123. Oscar says:

    @bradford

    “I know many, perhaps most adoptions turn out fine, but to say there is no reason for concern I think is unrealistic. I personally know of issues a friend of mine has had with his adopted children. Brad, a frequent poster on this blog has related issues he has had with his adopted children. There is a risk. Each individual must judge for themselves if they are willing to take it.”

    I know many, perhaps most biological births turn out fine, but to say there is no reason for concern I think is unrealistic. I personally know of issues of multiple friends of mine have with their biological children. Frequent posters on many blogs have released issues they’ve had with their biological children. There is a risk. Each individual must judge for themselves if they are willing to take it.

  124. bradford says:

    @Oscar

    How clever, then I guess you would say that there is no risk at all to rolling the dice on the genetics of your children. Listen, I have an adopted sister. Adopted as an infant. I’m very familiar with adopted families. I see no Biblical command to adopt other people’s children. I think scripture allows us to care for widows and orphans without inviting them to be one of our family. You have an opinion on adoption, that’s fine. I have a different one. Please show me the scripture which says your opinion is right. The ones you quoted above didn’t do it.

  125. Luke says:

    Oscar, men will decide who lives in America. (God allows us free will, and all that.) Even if I were to do as Oscar and bring in some “will always be foreign” people to help attempt to colonize America to be Third World, the result will still be decided by what’s clearly already underway. That is, an end to the idea that a nation is an idea, rather than a people bound by shared blood, religion, language, history, creed, and so on.

    BTW, Oscar, why do you think that what you’re doing is such a great idea? Arguably, those kids belong with their own people, in a place where they are the majority. I don’t think (hopefully) that you want to change America to be more like Africa. America can’t take in the Third World; better the Third World changes to be more like what was good about America (and most of that, we’re tragically speedily throwing away).

  126. Anonymous age 72 says:

    Oscar says:
    September 11, 2014 at 3:21 pm

    <>but the original meaning of the word “mulatto” is anyone of mixed-race parentage.

    C’mon, you’ve said this before, and you did document that 500 years ago mulatto was thus used. Good job on that, but that isn’t how it’s used today. Period. If you feel that way, I assume you read the Bible in Old English, that is, the version from around 1100 a.d.?

  127. Oscar says:

    @bradford

    “I guess you would say that there is no risk at all to rolling the dice on the genetics of your children.”

    You got my point exactly backwards. My point is that I rolled the dice just as much with my biological children as I did with my adopted children, and so does everyone else. Maybe even more so, considering that I already knew my adopted children were healthy before I adopted them. I knew no such thing of my biological children.

    “Listen, I have an adopted sister. Adopted as an infant. I’m very familiar with adopted families.”

    And?

    “I see no Biblical command to adopt other people’s children. I think scripture allows us to care for widows and orphans without inviting them to be one of our family.”

    The early church fulfilled the command to care for orphans by adopting them. Read Rodney Stark’s “The Victory of Reason”, Thomas E. Woods’ “How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization” and Alvin J. Schmidt’s “How Christianity Changed the World” for details.

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Victory-Reason-Christianity-Capitalism/dp/0812972333

    http://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Church-Built-Western-Civilization/dp/1596983280

    http://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Changed-World-Alvin-Schmidt/dp/0310264499

  128. Mark says:

    @Luke

    “”(Jews run highest, with Hispanics averaging below whites, and blacks below Hispanics overall.)”

    Thank you!…….I have heard this before.Our command of math,science and business through the ages proves this beyond a doubt.A Pastor friend of mine explained this to me about 10 years ago……or he explained his theory to me.One day we were having a coffee and I had made a donation to his Church.He said to me….”Do you know why you Jews are so expert at business and making money”?…and I replied…”OK..lets here it(laughing).” He explained to me that ……”the Jew is smarter than the Gentile for a reason.God made the Jew smarter because he intended to have the Jews Evangelize the world in the name of Christ.But,instead,you rejected Christ as the son of God and used your superior wisdom to accumulate worldly wealth”.This does make sense…..Shalom!

  129. Luke says:

    Charlotte says:
    September 11, 2014 at 8:30 pm

    ” I don’t know why you two chose to delay parenthood until almost retirement age, or what choices you two made that put you in a position of being unable to have them at a reasonable age,”

    We did not meet until 2009. Further, I did not want children until after I became Christian, about 4 years before we met.

  130. Oscar says:

    @Luke

    “God allows us free will, and all that.”

    One moment you plant your flag on genetic determinism, the next you claim God-given free will. You can’t have both.

    “Even if I were to do as Oscar and bring in some “will always be foreign” people to help attempt to colonize America to be Third World, the result will still be decided by what’s clearly already underway.”

    So, now you claim that I will always be foreign because I was born in Latin America? Do you have evidence of my perpetual foreignnes? (Hint: I bet I have a lot more evidence of the opposite)

    “That is, an end to the idea that a nation is an idea, rather than a people bound by shared blood, religion, language, history, creed, and so on.”

    My family and I are evidence of the opposite. We absorbed American ideals precisely because a nation is an idea.

    “Arguably, those kids belong with their own people, in a place where they are the majority.”

    I’m a minority in this country. Is being a minority somehow detrimental to a person? Because I hadn’t noticed.

    “I don’t think (hopefully) that you want to change America to be more like Africa. America can’t take in the Third World; better the Third World changes to be more like what was good about America (and most of that, we’re tragically speedily throwing away).”

    I am neither trying to change America to be more like Africa nor change Africa to be more like America.

    I am trying to obey God’s commandment to care for orphans in the same way the early Church did – by adopting them.

  131. Oscar says:

    @Anonymous age 72

    “Oscar says:
    September 11, 2014 at 3:21 pm

    but the original meaning of the word “mulatto” is anyone of mixed-race parentage.

    C’mon, you’ve said this before, and you did document that 500 years ago mulatto was thus used. Good job on that, but that isn’t how it’s used today. Period. If you feel that way, I assume you read the Bible in Old English, that is, the version from around 1100 a.d.?”

    You clearly have me confused with someone else.

  132. MarcusD says:

    An update on the husband and I (“[if] he watches porn one more time, I’m walking”)
    http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=908545

  133. Luke says:

    Mark, you are welcome. Perhaps you will enjoy this as well; someone noticed long ago that Jews seriously outachieved Muslims in winning science Nobel prizes, along the lines of 129 vs. 4. Given there are over a billion Muslims, and only about 12 million Jews, that makes a Jew something like 14,000 times as likely to win a Nobel prize in science as is a Muslim.

  134. Luke says:

    Oscar says:
    September 12, 2014 at 12:35 am

    “I am trying to obey God’s commandment to care for orphans in the same way the early Church did – by adopting them.”

    So, send them money in their homeland like a good liberal (AFTER all your debts are paid off, natch). That won’t put them in the middle of this 20 or so years from now:
    http://www.resist.com/CWII.pdf

    Better, of course, would be books (on values, not technology) that would help them and their countrymen change their culture from what it is now, to the one that built the West. (Not our currently-dominant culture, God knows; on topics like discouraging homosexuality, Africans are actually ahead of the West now.)

    How that sort of thing tends to turn out, to hardly anyone else’s suprise:

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/924795/posts

  135. Mark says:

    @MarcusD

    ““[if] he watches porn one more time, I’m walking”)”‘

    You get a real kick out of that RC site.I do also.I like reading the links that you post from there as most of them I consider to be “The Hamster Olympics”. I can see where a married woman could have a problem with her hubby watching online porn all the time.But,the problem goes deeper than that.I have to ask myself..”Why is he watching porn?..when he has real live poon in the next room”.24/7 free porn is turning into a real problem for a lot of people.I see it with some younger guys that I see at the office.I have explained to these younger guys that the only reason that I will use porn is if the “booty call” that I am banging likes it and it gets her super hot.Then I will use it.
    Here is a quote that I archived.From a feminist…who actually said something intelligent……

    This is what Naomi Wolf, a feminist, wrote:

    “The onslaught of porn is responsible for deadening male libido in relation to real women, and leading men to see fewer and fewer women as “porn-worthy.” Far from having to fend off porn-crazed young men, young women are worrying that as mere flesh and blood, they can scarcely get, let alone hold, their attention.”

    Again,what is the root of the problem here? Simple.Men would rather watch porn than have to deal with Canadian women.Which,as you know,are a bunch of insufferable cunts!! In fact,from reading some “Game Sites”,the PUA community consider Toronto,Ontario to be the absolute worst city in the world for women.This is no surprise to me!

  136. Mark says:

    @Luke

    “”that makes a Jew something like 14,000 times as likely to win a Nobel prize in science as is a Muslim.””

    I can believe this.The only thing that Muslims seem to create today is chaos,war and suffering!

  137. Luke says:

    Several interesting articles here:

    1) Over 40% of intelligence is purely genetic-based:
    http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/10/news/la-heb-genetic-study-intelligence-20110809

    2) Why a Jewish man didn’t marry a Jewish woman:
    http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/1597433-why-i-didn-t-marry-a-jewish-woman

    3) An explanation from wildlife population biological science for the liberal/conservative divide — more specifically, the divide between conservative whites and conservative North Asians — and everyone else:
    http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/the-theory/rk-selection-theory/

  138. Luke says:

    Mark, I think you’d also be amused by this calculation (wish I kept the link):

    For the whole Arab world, from the Iran-Iraq border to the Atlantic coast of Morocco, if petroleum is excluded, that area of 9 digits of people has a combined GNP less than that of Belgium.

  139. Robin Munn says:

    @Oscar –

    My family and I are evidence of the opposite. We absorbed American ideals precisely because a nation is an idea.

    I’d correct that sentence to say that the American nation is an idea. Most other nations are based on shared heritage (usually racial/ethnic heritage), and it’s hard (usually not impossible, but hard) for foreigners to immigrate — and even harder for them to feel accepted by the nation’s culture. Whereas America originated as a nation of shared ideas, with immigrants coming from all kinds of ethnicities and cultures. Hence why the ethnic mix you’ll see on the streets of America is much more diverse than the mix you’ll see on the streets of Tokyo, or Mexico City, or Abuja (the capital of Nigeria).

    @MarcusD –

    Interesting collection of links. There’s no way I’ll have time to read them all; do you have any recommendations?

    I’ll note that I don’t deny that there are measurable differences in intelligence between various ethnic groups (I usually avoid the term “race” because I find it way over-broad — more on that later), I just think that cultural differences tend to have a much larger effect than the genetic differences do. I know many couples who have adopted a child of a different race. In every case when the child was adopted as a baby or a toddler, as the child grows up they act more like their adoptive parents than like the members of their nation of origin. They have a different set of genes from their parents, but the same culture — and they have the same genes as those from their nation of origin, but a different culture. And they are indeed different from their adoptive parents in some ways — differences in musical talent, in the ability to learn foreign languages or math, and many other ways that genetics explain rather well — but generally, the differences from their adoptive parents are smaller than the differences from the people of their nation of origin (with whom they share genetics but not culture). The only cases I know of of adopted children who are very different from their adoptive parents are the cases where the child was adopted after age 7-8 or so, by which point the child has absorbed a lot of the culture of his/her nation of origin, and are culturally foreign to their adoptive parents. So my experience has produced lots of evidence for the “culture trumps genes” theory, and not one single counterexample so far.

    I’d be fascinated to learn of a study of cross-racial adoptions, and whether there were significant differences between infant adoptions and older-child adoptions. But a quick search for the term “adopt” on the page you linked to turned up only one link (repeated three times because it fit into three different categories), and it was actually all about interracial marriages and mentioned adoption only as an afterthought. If you have any material that would support the hypothesis that race trumps culture, contra the evidence that I’ve seen myself, I would love to know about it.

    So let me expand a little on why I find the term “race” over-broad. Part of it is because despite people’s preferences in general for mates that look like them, there’s been enough cross-breeding between different ethnic groups that it’s actually surprisingly hard to find people who are “pure” examples of whatever ethnicity you’re looking at, without at least one cross-marriage in their past 3-4 generations. So while you can look at people’s faces and see a race, their genetics are usually more mixed than their face would indicate. The other part of it is because it lumps together groups with vastly different cultures (e.g., the Hindus of India and the Muslims of Pakistan are often from the same “race”, but their cultures are extremely different), and I’ve mentioned before how much evidence I’ve seen that the culture you’re raised in tends to trump your genetics.

  140. Pingback: Exploding 50 something pregnant women. | Truth ...

  141. Don’t worry so much Dallie boy, this will merely lead to a new human species, where there is no sex and only small penises. Oh…. the horror!!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2752166/Are-evolving-NEW-type-human-Different-species-evolved-2050-scientist-says.html

    And LOL!

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/11/army-concerned-with-number-of-white-men-leading-co/

    White men, stop fighting for people who hate your guts! Let the minorities and ladies come back in body bags. Stop fighting for them and start fighting for your own country free of the pests of minorities, feminists and satanists.

  142. Exfernal says:

    Comparing calcium content of the bone (inert matter) with a muscle tissue (living cells) is a wrong way to see the issue.

    As for osteoporosis, there are additional changes concerning collagen production associated with advancing age (old fibers developing monosaccharide crosslinks, new fibers produced less than needed). Calcium alone doesn’t prevent them.

  143. Exfernal says:

    I mean, compare the content ratios (mass or volume, doesn’t matter much which) between the extracellular and cellular parts in both kinds of tissues. Bone tissue comprises mostly of hydroxyapatite crystals on collagen matrix, osteoblast/osteocyte and osteoclast cells are a minority there. Muscle tissue is majority muscle fiber cells with less fibrocytes forming sheaths of connective tissue (comprising of collagen and elastin, mostly) around muscle fiber bundles. I omit the presence of proteoglicans and glycosaminoglicans in both types of tissue, for more clarity.

    Advanced glycation end-products form in both tissues, but are much harder to remove from extracellular matrix than from the inside of the cells.

  144. Opus says:

    I am very sceptical as to the notion that some people are more intelligent than others – in the sense in which a higher I.Q. makes one a better person; much as the idea that having a bigger dick is somehow a sign of being more masculine. I have worked with a fair number of people who would be regarded as the brightest of the bright, yet would I, if in the way of being an employer, want them to work for me? Certainly not!; most of the really bright ones go off on tangents (of which they are so bright they are unaware) and cause nothing but trouble. It is also the case that such people have what I can only describe as defects in their personality such that they lack tact, are awkward, and fail to pick up on social cues. Education frequently only makes plain a stupidity that less education would hide – much as Feminism merely reveals the worst in women.

    Does a dog differentiate between humans based on their intelligence? I think not, and what he looks for in a Master or Mistress is kindness and care: So should we all. Is this not also a hall-mark of Christianity?

  145. Luke says:

    Opus, there is no small amount of evidence that it takes a minimum national average IQ in order to sustain an industrial civilization. There are countries that clearly do not have this. Likewise, genes are part of how men and women assess potential marital partners, as in, who knowingly would prefer retarded children? Thus, IQ’s fully relevant for more than just employers of scientists and engineers to consider.

  146. Exfernal says:

    -glycans

    I wrote the form used in my native language.

  147. Exfernal says:

    Well, these tangents are interesting subjects to contemplate on. For example, is this pig bladder product kosher? If not (obviously), then what might be the best replacement for it?

  148. Opus says:

    @Luke

    You are a true believer – in Genes. I simply do not either see or accept that the reason for the dominance of the Anglo world has anything to do with intelligence (which as you see I do not think really exists) – which may be an historical anomaly and where there are or maybe many other candidates for Anglo success. Most of those bright people I referred to could not organise a drinking session in a brewery.

    I am off to the other thread now to indulge in some Dawkins bashing.

  149. Oscar says:

    @Luke says:

    “So, send them money in their homeland like a good liberal (AFTER all your debts are paid off, natch).”

    1. I’m not a “Liberal”.
    2. Doing that does not follow the example of the Church fathers who obeyed God’s command to care for orphans by adopting them.
    3. By doing the work myself, I know exactly how my resources are being used.

    Also, you avoided several of my questions. For example:

    You claim I will “always be a foreigner” because I’m one of those icky brown people who immigrated to the United States from Latin America. Do you have any evidence to back your claim?

  150. Oscar says:

    @Robin Munn

    “I’d correct that sentence to say that the American nation is an idea”

    Agreed.

  151. Oscar says:

    Have you ever wondered why David Swindle writes so derisively about other men? Gaze upon the “man” himself and wonder no more!

  152. bradford says:

    @Oscar

    Still waiting for the scripture references that direct believers to literally adopt the orphans. Church history is interesting, but doesn’t carry the weight of scripture. Not saying that this kind of adoption is wrong, just saying that believers can have legitimate reservations about adoption. Clearly you feel called by God to adopt. I wish you and your family well.

    As to the genetic probabilities of adoption vs natural birth, you are simply wrong or uninformed. See some of the links provided to the HBD sites like Steve Sailor’s. I know my family heritage, yes a few bad apples and no really great athletes, but generally steady, intelligent, long lived, successful people in life. I know my wife’s people, pretty much the same. Short of some unlikely accident at birth our odds were good to produce steady, non athletic, generally intelligent long lived children. What do most people who adopt know about the family backgrounds of their future children? Nothing, it’s a crap shoot. Many times children are up for adoption because their biological parents were low in intelligence or poor in decision making and impulse control. Will this tendency show up in their children? I can understand that some people, good Christian people, may be unwilling to take this risk. As we begin to know more about DNA and genetic impact on behavior I think my concerns will confirmed. For this reason, I would not personally consider adoption.

  153. bradford says:

    OK Oscar, you ruined my day with the clip of the Swindle character. I think we have found something we can agree on.

  154. Isa says:

    @ Oscar
    How cute they are! I worked on some of their bigger brothers for a while, but the tiny ones are just adorable❤

  155. Isa says:

    Luke, Oscar, and Opus
    I would recommend reading “Guns, Germs, and Steel.” It has many very intriguing ideas as to why civilization developed as it did without bringing racism and IQ into it. Basically, Eurasia was atypically blessed with being lateral so crops could easily transfer as well as a giant number of high protein grains and trainable large mammals. The most screwed continent? Australia. Race across Eurasia is a gradient as well, so the IQ differences are not as readily noticeable.

    Oddly enough there are some decent studies on average IQ differences across racial categories (and by this I mean continents) which track inversely with athletic achievement. The basic upshot seems to be, Eurasia had huge amounts of resources and thus could afford to support and nurture an artist/scholar class. Africa, Oceania, and the Americas were not blessed with the agricultural or animal resources to build civilizations as complex and dense, thus physically stronger men would be more desirable as mates, ergo selection for athleticism.

    I would posit however that in the age of globalization, these differences will shrink until they are no longer measurable as assortive mating with pair the educated upper class together rather than sticking in the village as they did before and “spreading out” their genes.

    Also, Luke has odd ideas about Latinos. They can be Native American, black, white, or some mix. Heck, my cousin married a Latina, and their child could be an SS trouper and is insanely intelligent (like his father).

  156. Isa says:

    @Opus
    The science also supports the 50/50 split, with a push towards environment while young and genes while older. Obviously starving as a child reduces your intelligence. Perhaps this explains Luke’s odd ideas about why Africans are unable to be an asset to western culture. They were starved as infants. Brilliant! Linkspam to follow.
    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304898704577478482432277706
    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v388/n6641/full/388468a0.html
    http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-10-genetic-cognition-age.html
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289613001049
    http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/heritable-iq-is-a-sign-of-social-mobility.aspx

  157. Isa says:

    @Opus
    The science also supports the 50/50 split, with a push towards environment while young and genes while older. Obviously starving as a child reduces your intelligence. Perhaps this explains Luke’s odd ideas about why Africans are unable to be an asset to western culture. They were starved as infants. Brilliant! Linkspam to follow.
    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304898704577478482432277706
    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v388/n6641/full/388468a0.html

  158. Opus says:

    I should confess that the only time I took an I.Q. Test (albeit I was sitting on my sister’s bed) I scored a mere 87. I suspect that I.Q. is (as I indicate) seen as a marker of moral or human superiority. I have occasionally come across people who were keen to tell me of their Mensa membership (including one of the dimmest and god-awful female clients I ever had) and yet they have always seemed to be rather ordinary and with some intellectual chip on their shoulder. Different people have different abilities but overall we are still human – the stupidity of so many of those women with Doctorate’s in Psychology and the like is a joy to behold. My bull-shit-ometer is activated when I am told that Mozart has an I.Q. of about 190. Can he write a fugue – of course, as can anyone else trained in Harmony and Counterpoint. Beyond that he had merely written music most people like – well (as they say ) duh!

    Dawkins as I said on the other thread merely impresses me with his intellectual blindness.

    If Fatism is the frontier now to be conquered then I.Q.ism should be next.

    I suspect that a lot of I.Q.ism is merely thinly disguised anti-black sentiment.

  159. Gunner Q says:

    Isa @ 9:13 am:
    “I would posit however that in the age of globalization, these differences will shrink until they are no longer measurable as assortive mating with pair the educated upper class together rather than sticking in the village as they did before and “spreading out” their genes.”

    The differences aren’t shrinking. Technology doesn’t seem to have changed racial behaviors at all. Africa is still a cesspit. Asia still builds the most stable (if oppressive) societies. Latin America still has strong family structure but weak social structure. And Europe/U.S. is still creating the world’s future. A bad future, this time, but hey. Everybody has the Maxim gun now.

    Assortive mating, ugh. I would never have guessed that the male version of the bordello is the state prison. Let’s go back to keeping women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, with no pretense of being on the same level.

  160. Robin Munn says:

    @Opus –

    Re: the Mensa member who was “one of the dimmest and god-awful female clients [you] ever had,” I know a lot of people whose IQs are in the range that they’d automatically qualify for Mensa without needing to take a test. And near-universally, they have no desire to do so, and in fact regard with suspicion anyone who trumpets their Mensa membership far and wide, as they tend to find that that person “doth protest too much”. Most of them who’ve given a reason have mentioned either a strong leftward slant among Mensa members, or the distaste they personally have for how many Mensa members tend to want to “show off”. If you’re truly confident in your own intelligence, my acquaintances tend to feel, you won’t need to show off to all and sundry.

  161. Isa says:

    @ Opus
    The Motzart thing is pure BS. The IQ test I took as part of an extensive neurological workup was one of the Weschler, but prior to leaving out the analogies. Basic highlights, off the scale everywhere except odd places like recognizing faces and remembering personal details about other people. So at the end of the day, I could join the triple 9 society… but why would I want to? Mensa isn’t particularly special anyways, being that 2% of the population can be in it…

    I suspect the black scores have far less to do with race than with the average amount of words they know starting at an early age. It is truly shocking. Controlling for class/education of the parents equalizes that so the testing of the children ought to be the same.

    In any case, the differences are not large enough to make a lot of conclusions. But I will reiterate, Guns Germs and Steel will explain a lot.

  162. Isa says:

    @Gunner Q
    As I said before, read “Guns, Germs, and Steel.” That will do you far better than insulting Africans who got a pretty crap straw.

    The theory:
    “Diamond argues that Eurasian civilization is not so much a product of ingenuity, but of opportunity and necessity. That is, civilization is not created out of superior intelligence, but is the result of a chain of developments, each made possible by certain preconditions.

    The first step towards civilization is the move from nomadic hunter-gatherer to rooted agrarian. Several conditions are necessary for this transition to occur: 1) access to high protein vegetation that endures storage; 2) a climate dry enough to allow storage; 3) access to animals docile enough for domestication and versatile enough to survive captivity. Control of crops and livestock leads to food surpluses. Surplus frees people up to specialize in activities other than sustenance and supports population growth. The combination of specialization and population growth leads to the accumulation of social and technologic innovations which build on each other. Large societies develop ruling classes and supporting bureaucracies, which in turn lead to the organization of nation states and empires.[2]

    Although agriculture arose in several parts of the world, Eurasia gained an early advantage due to the greater availability of suitable plant and animal species for domestication. In particular, Eurasia has barley, two varieties of wheat and three protein-rich pulses for food; flax for textiles; goats, sheep and cattle. Eurasian grains were richer in protein, easier to sow and easier to store than American maize or tropical bananas.

    Diamond identifies 13 species of large animals (over 100 lb / 44 kg) domesticated in Eurasia, compared with just one in South America (counting the llama and alpaca as breeds within the same species) and none at all in the rest of the world. Australia and North America suffered from a lack of useful animals due to extinction, probably by human hunting, shortly after the end of the Pleistocene, whilst the only domesticated animals in New Guinea came from the East Asian mainland during the Austronesian settlement some 4,000–5,000 years ago. Sub-Saharan biological relatives of the horse including zebras and onagers proved untameable; and although African elephants can be tamed, it is very difficult to breed them in captivity;[2][3] Diamond describes the small number of domesticated species (14 out of 148 “candidates”) as an instance of the Anna Karenina principle: many promising species have just one of several significant difficulties that prevent domestication.”

  163. Isa says:

    @Gunner Q
    Now now, women are equal sometimes you know. Especially equally important in the bedroom😛

  164. Oscar says:

    @bradford

    “Still waiting for the scripture references that direct believers to literally adopt the orphans.”

    I never said there were any. I merely pointed out that the Bible commands us to care for orphans, and that the early Church did so by adopting them. If you think the early church’s example is non-instructive, I guess I can’t help you with that. However, you might want to become better informed on how the Bible presents adoption vs surrogacy, with a particular emphasis on how adoption mirrors the Gospel.

    As for impulse control: I have eight children – five adopted and three biological. As such, I am well aware of the role that genetics play in personality. And I am also, therefore, well aware of the role good parenting plays in guiding natural inclinations toward Godly ends.

    “As to the genetic probabilities of adoption vs natural birth, you are simply wrong or uninformed.”

    On the contrary; you are uninformed – and willfully so. Unless you live in the world of Gattaca ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119177/ ) you have zero control over how your genes combine with your spouse’s. Then there is God-given free will combined with human sinful nature. There is no shortage of stories of heartbreak brought on by rebellious biological children on their hapless and helpless biological parents. You might want to open your eyes to some of those and ask yourself why this is so.

    “OK Oscar, you ruined my day with the clip of the Swindle character. I think we have found something we can agree on.”

    Just keep that pale, emaciated figure in mind the next time one of his misandrist diatribes shows up here.

  165. Oscar says:

    @Isa

    “Luke, Oscar, and Opus
    I would recommend reading ‘Guns, Germs, and Steel’.”

    I read it, and its sequel, “Collapse”, back in 2005 after returning from my first tour in Iraq and asking myself “How the hell did these people – who were mapping the stars when my ancestors were swinging from trees – fall this far?”

    Diamond makes great points, but in the end is far too deterministic.

  166. Anonymous age 72 says:

    Oscar, you are correct. It was Lyn 87 who uses an ancient definition of mulatto. No real explanation as to why I confused the names. I just goofed.

  167. Anonymous age 72 says:

    From watching the video, I would say Dave Swindle is not proud to be a man in a man’s body.

  168. Lyn87 says:

    I read “Guns, Germs and Steel” shortly after it came out. I used to have a copy, but about a year ago we wanted more space and sold a couple of hundred books on Amazon – that was one of them. I vaguely recall reading “Collapse” but I wouldn’t swear to it. Oscar is right: Diamond is pretty deterministic. As for swinging from trees, I guess Oscar never had the misfortune to miss the DZ on a drop. 😉 I distinctly recall my time as a student in the Airborne Training Battalion at the “Benning School for Boys,” when one of the C-130’s released the first stick of Super-Duper Paratroopers! a little too soon. Not my plane, fortunately for me, but quite a few of those guys ended up swinging from trees themselves – at least until someone went to get them down.

    Time to go to the library and re-read it, I suppose.

  169. Isa says:

    @Lyn87 and Oscar
    I agree that it is deterministic, but a pretty good jumping off point. I haven’t read Collapse (no heart for it), but I suspect as time went on his views crystallized. As far as how did the civilization fall that fast, religion my friend, religion. When devotion to God means unthinking obedience and submission and rational thought is verboten, it doesn’t take long for some whack job to start quoting from the scriptures and kill everyone who doesn’t agree.

    Also, the region needs a strongman. The collapse of the Ottoman Empire/Caliphate was *vicious*. Except for Ataturk, he was a very clear thinking man. Hilaire Belloc has some rather prescient things to say as well (he viewed Islam as stemming from Christian heresy that man can never be God). He thought it would be resurgent in the next century, and thus far, it appears that way.

  170. The Brass Cat says:

    @TFH

    But ‘feminists’ obstruct that too. Partly by creating a male-heavy immigration policy (immigration of single women is something that ‘feminists’ obstruct tooth and nail), and partly by adding so much cost to tech companies in the US (with their inane ‘more women in tech, merit be damned’ screeching), that outsourcing of jobs to the countries where we used to get immigrants FROM, has become the norm.

    “Well oooobviously we don’t want to import more of those icky computer nerd types, eeeew! We need more sexy gardeners who are great at plowing…us!” –American Women

    When we in the US educate someone we have built up a great deal of intellectual capital in that person. There needs to be an option of a smooth transition from student visa to a work visa with the added benefit of green cards for the wife and children. If we were smart we’d be making every effort to keep this intellectual capital. After all, it is a competition between nations for this resource.

    @Luke

    You almost certainly know very little about the current workings of the adoption business in the U.S. to take such a position… there are very, very few healthy white infants available for adoption in the U.S. any longer. If you can settle for a slightly retarded LD mulatto 8-YO with anger issues…

    You are right, I don’t know much about the adoption business. But I do know one can go through an agency to match pregnant women with families who want to adopt. If having a white baby is the priority I’d assume one can pick a white woman and inquire about the father. BUT, back to the original article, I don’t recall race being an issue with the woman. She was certainly NOT concerned with her baby being genetically related to her at all.

    And if adopting a “mulatto” baby is a concern, there are plenty of babies and children in huge orphanages in China who are 100% Chinese.

    It might not be obvious but this kind of racialism is a form of Leftism. The Nazis, contrary to popular belief, were a far-left ideology and racialism was one of their core tenants. Leftism is all about top-down, authoritarian, government control over private individuals. There isn’t much that’s more intrusively authoritarian than telling an individual who he can have children with.

    Eugenics + Population Control –> Abortion Industry

  171. Anonymous age 72 says:

    I can speak with some authority on Mensa. Around 35 years ago, I was for 5 years the editor of a local chapter newsletter, and my policy was to communicate with 100% of all new members. With a high turn-over that was a lot of members over a 5 year period.

    Of course, my knowledge may or may not be outdated by 30 years. I suspect not too much.

    Most new members did not join for the conceited and narcissistic reasons many of you attribute to them. In fact, they usually did it as a lark, out of curiosity. That is exactly why I did it. So, when they said so, I just naturally believed them.

    The members I found to be the biggest pain “in the chair” were those with a Ph. D. after their name. But, that is only an extension of their conduct on campus. They apparently assume that as Gods on campus they should also be Gods in Mensa. Mensa grants no extra points for academic degrees and the result is often, er, interesting. One of the quickest ways in the world to get kicked in the nuts is to go to a Mensa Meeting and start waving your academic degrees around. Hee, hee.

    I also suspect the Mensa members many of you found unbearable were also unbearable to other members of Mensa. Yet, you do the very human thing which is to blame an entire organization for the acts of the few members that you happen to know.

    Most members do not stay members long. But, in many cases, as soon as they join they start soul searching as to why with an allegedly high i.q. they didn’t do more with their lives. And, a lot of them make changes with their lives as answer to those questions.

    Back to school (in a time when that still made sense,) Or start a business. Or, move to a different location and start over. Things they had never been motivated to do before.

    And, when they did, a high percentage dropped their membership, as no longer relevant.

    In my case, within a year of resigning as editor, I became a public militant MRA/FRA. The only real difference today is due to extreme aggression and hostility among men in the manosphere it is dangerous to be outed. Other men are the enemy, not feminists. So, I now write anonymously what I used to write openly.

    While I do not know personally, I suspect the current American Mensa is dominated by leftist pro-gay misandrist feminist thought, even though a majority of members do not share those views. With a majority of members are men, and women mostly in charge and receive most of the scholarships. That is the direction it was going last time I snooped some years ago. A parallel of society as a whole.

    When Mensa was started, the founders thought that such an organization would enable that high i.q. to be better utilized by society. It did not happen and it cannot happen. As I have pointed out, the only benefit for the most part is motivating members to perform better in their personal lives.

    The same population that worships a bone-head who can dribble and pass a basketball is outraged that anyone should even know their i.q. Yet, when their baby gets cancer they want a high i.q. doctor to appear by magic out of no where.

    Most Mensa level humans on the planet work at manual labor at best. Social prejudices; social barriers; favoritism; social class; lack of personal motivation; lack of social skills; childhood environment; affirmative action; and other factors make high i.q. not usable for the most part. If you have a high i.q. you’d better keep it a secret.

  172. Oscar says:

    @Lyn87

    “As for swinging from trees, I guess Oscar never had the misfortune to miss the DZ on a drop.”

    No, but I was a towed jumper once (for about two seconds). Fortunately, I avoided the Popeye arm. I was in the 173rd for a few years, but frankly, I was much better at being a Leg than a Paratrooper.

    @Isa

    “As far as how did the civilization fall that fast, religion my friend, religion.”

    Agreed, but I’d be more specific and sum it up in one word – Islam.

  173. Mark says:

    @TFH

    “”A large part of the reason Canada has leapfrogged the US in many measures is much smarter, skills-centric immigration policies””

    Good point.Of all the immigrants that I see and meet here in Toronto,they are all University educated.At least most of them are.The only ones that seem to not have education are the Jamaicans.They come up here for a vacation and knock up some white girl and get to remain here as a baby daddy.Then they get into the illegal drug trade.

  174. Oscar says:

    @Anonymous age 72

    “Oscar, you are correct. It was Lyn 87 who uses an ancient definition of mulatto. No real explanation as to why I confused the names. I just goofed.”

    No worries, sir.

    “From watching the video, I would say Dave Swindle is not proud to be a man in a man’s body.”

    Agreed. Weird, isn’t it? The men – like Swindle – who excoriate other men the worst in their writing are the least manly. Think John Scalzi, who is proud of being literally weaker than a little girl.

  175. The Brass Cat says:

    @TFH

    Too many people cannot grasp this. At The Spearhead, there are a couple of notable idiots who insist that no immigrants are skilled, and that Asians in Silicon Valley could never succeed on merit and have only succeeded due to massive affirmative action (I kid you not, there are idiots who truly believe this).

    The manosphere attracts a lot of white nationalists. I’m not sure what the connection is. If they want more white people working in major industries then they need to “man up” (lol) and send their children to college for STEM/medical degrees rather than English Literature or Art History.

    Ironically it is Asian immigrants who benefit least from affirmative action-type programs. In college entrance, for example, look at the median SAT scores for Asians versus any other group, then compare that to the percentage of Asian applicants who are admitted. The Asians are at a comparative disadvantage and need higher scores to get in.

    This issue of cultivating quality immigration has two components:
    1) Retaining those who came here for education/training.
    2) Attracting those who were educated/trained in their home country.

    Each needs its own strategy.

  176. bradford says:

    @TFH

    Don’t know much about white nationalists, but what does yout point #4 even mean? Because in math .5 is rounded up to 1.0 it makes a half black man a white man? WTF? Does that mean our first black president is actually a white man???

  177. infowarrior1 says:

    @Brass Cat

    My guess is because the manosphere has alot of disaffected disenfranchised white men as a result of our current misandric society and hence WN see a recruiting opportunity to have them see: “Race Realism”

  178. MarcusD says:

    @The Brass Cat

    The manosphere attracts a lot of white nationalists.

    Do you have anything to back that up with?

    Ironically it is Asian immigrants who benefit least from affirmative action-type programs.

    In college entrance, yes, but in hiring practices, they’re doing quite well. Look at the demographic data released by major tech companies over the past year.

    @Robin

    Interesting collection of links. There’s no way I’ll have time to read them all; do you have any recommendations?

    There are suggested starting points on the page itself: New to HBD? Requisite materials for novices: is near the top.

    If you want specific answers, sending a tweet to @Jayman471, @Mangan150, @hbdbibliography, and/or @hbdchick will likely be beneficial.

    @Mark

    You get a real kick out of that RC site.

    In a way. It amazes me how infected with SJWs the place is. And how entrenched its slavish obedience to feminism and cultural Marxism is (which is quite ironic…). Have you noticed how many supposedly devout Catholic women are using second wave feminist terminology?

    The spread of porn is also something that feminists wanted. They of course see the unintended consequences now, and are frantically trying to pull back. There’s an article in the NP about a similar idea (popped up today): http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/09/12/barbara-kay-the-slow-tentative-return-of-womens-lost-sense-of-sexual-honour/

  179. The Brass Cat says:

    @MarcusD

    The manosphere attracts a lot of white nationalists.
    Do you have anything to back that up with?

    Yes. Most bloggers in the manosphere are not WN, but if you read enough comment sections you’ll start to see numerous WN-themed comments. Not so much on Dalrock’s blog, but try Chateau Heartiste for one.

    Ironically it is Asian immigrants who benefit least from affirmative action-type programs.
    In college entrance, yes, but in hiring practices, they’re doing quite well. Look at the demographic data released by major tech companies over the past year.

    This is not because of any sort of affirmative action. They all hire the best job candidates they can afford. It just so happens that Asians are performing well in tech. The NBA hires mostly black athletes but here to it is not due to affirmative action. They hire the best candidates.

    @TFH

    ii) and they also want successful white people to subsidize them under some ‘duty of racial loyalty’ scheme, even though, frankly, they have nothing in common with successful whites (who are quick to eject them). Economically, their views are very left-wing and redistributionist.

    This is true. As I’ve said before, Nazism itself was a Leftist political movement. Not right, left. Modern progressives have stolen the narrative on this topic in an attempt to obscure the link between American progressive academics and the Nazi Germans. The Nazis have been labeled “far right wing” ever since, even though the exact opposite is true.

  180. Hugh Mann says:

    http://nypost.com/2014/09/08/meet-the-businesswoman-single-mom-whos-pregnant-again-at-51/

    Some great quotes.

    “I had a string of long-term relationships with gorgeous, driven men whose Type A personalities matched mine. We’d discuss marriage and kids, but, for one reason or another, it didn’t happen.”

    I’m sure there’s a phrase that describes such relationships.

    “I’m confident, attractive, successful in my career and own a $1 million apartment on the Upper East Side. One day, I’ll likely meet Mr. Right, get married…”

    She’d be a real catch – aren’t all men looking for a woman who’s successful in her career ?

  181. Gunner Q says:

    MarcusD @ 3:04 am:
    “The spread of porn is also something that feminists wanted. They of course see the unintended consequences now, and are frantically trying to pull back.”

    Back in my college days, I remember an ongoing debate about prostitution. On the one hand, women should be free to do whatever they want with their bodies. On the other hand, men enjoy prostitutes so whoring only reinforces patriarchal oppression. It was funny, watching them argue the morality of sexual immorality.

    Then concepts like “lesbian until graduation” came along and it wasn’t funny anymore.

  182. MarcusD says:

    Yes. Most bloggers in the manosphere are not WN, but if you read enough comment sections you’ll start to see numerous WN-themed comments. Not so much on Dalrock’s blog, but try Chateau Heartiste for one.

    That is insufficient evidence to back up your claim. Right now your claim appears to be founded on confirmation bias.

    This is not because of any sort of affirmative action.

    Look up the hiring practices of Yahoo, Google, and other tech companies – why do you think they always talk about ‘diversity’? It’s not because they’re focused on hiring the best. They even admit that a ‘diverse’ workplace is supposed to make up for the losses inherent in not hiring the best.

  183. MarcusD says:

    http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/25points.htm

    There’s definitely overlap with left-wing politics. Given the left-wing disdain for Israel now (and for some time prior), the final part of point #4 appears to be in play again.

  184. The Brass Cat says:

    @MarcusD

    Yes. Most bloggers in the manosphere are not WN, but if you read enough comment sections you’ll start to see numerous WN-themed comments. Not so much on Dalrock’s blog, but try Chateau Heartiste for one.

    That is insufficient evidence to back up your claim. Right now your claim appears to be founded on confirmation bias.

    You may be right about my confirmation bias. But it looks like other people on this blog agree with my biased claim. There’s no data available, no systematic review that anyone can reference to speak to the truth of my claim. We all have our subjective experiences of the manosphere with our own biases, including both you and I.

    I follow several manosphere blogs and I consider myself “red pill.” I’m not here to bash the ‘sphere.

    And, I would hate to be categorically lumped with white nationalists.

    This is not because of any sort of affirmative action.

    Look up the hiring practices of Yahoo, Google, and other tech companies – why do you think they always talk about ‘diversity’? It’s not because they’re focused on hiring the best. They even admit that a ‘diverse’ workplace is supposed to make up for the losses inherent in not hiring the best.

    These tech companies complain that they can’t find enough qualified applicants. If there’s any truth to that then they wouldn’t be turning away any qualified applicants regardless of demographic status– unless demographic status is part of “qualified.” There’s going to be some selection bias, too, because the Asians who were admitted to colleges had higher SAT scores (than the average student) thus possessed a higher capacity for intellectual labor.

    In my previous post I mistakenly conflated “tech” with “professional.” I was thinking of IT, engineering, medicine, etc. That’s much broader than a few big tech companies, thus I didn’t consider the “diversity” requirements of a few companies. In the broader professional sphere Asian immigrants aren’t benefiting from affirmative action.

  185. And, I would hate to be categorically lumped with white nationalists.

    That’s inevitable, as long as you profess to any non-PC views.

    The manosphere isn’t white nationalist, but any site that allows discussion that goes outside the mainstream left’s approved boundaries on one topic will naturally draw people who have unapproved views on other things as well, and those will sometimes overlap into the discussion. So a group of people who reject feminism will contain people who also reject things like government instructions on diet, the importance of schooling, the superiority of democracy — and yes, racial equalitarianism. And sometimes those other topics will intersect with the main one, because there are overlaps in the reasons why they’ve been banned from polite discourse by the left.

    To the left, we’re all the same anyway — just a scary mass of angry white guys with guns who probably spend our Friday nights beating up women or lynching minorities. It doesn’t matter that a site like this one is utterly reasonable and frequented by decent people who want the best for everyone. To them, we’re beyond the pale and therefore just as bad as the worst they can find.

  186. James K says:

    I read it, and its sequel, “Collapse”, back in 2005 after returning from my first tour in Iraq and asking myself “How the hell did these people – who were mapping the stars when my ancestors were swinging from trees – fall this far?”

    Sir John Glubb, who served in the British and Jordanian Armies in the first half of the 20th Century, wrote a pamphlet called “The Fate of Empires”, which noted the trajectory of all civilizations, including the Arabs’.

    As a civilization matures and increases in wealth, a kind of decadence ensues. Sexual morality declines, people become more materialistic and less religious, government becomes corrupt, welfare increases, and women have more influence in public life. Ultimately, the country is invaded by foreigners whose culture is in an earlier stage of development.

    The sequence has been followed by at least a dozen empires in Europe and the Near East over the last 3,000 years, and the parallels with the modern West are inescapable.

    Liberals usually believe that our experiment with welfare and feminism is unique in history, but it is not. It is part of an unstoppable political trajectory that inevitably leads to collapse.

    Glubb’s work has given us a unique chance to learn from history and avoid collapse, but we refuse to do so. Glubb wrote nearly 40 years ago, yet his warnings have not been heeded. “The Fate of Empires” is sometimes mentioned in the Manosphere, often with the postscript “Enjoy the decline!” or “I’ll be poolside!”. In the wider world, people simply don’t want to hear Glubb’s message.

  187. James K says:

    “The Fate of Empires” is on the web here: http://www.rexresearch.com/glubb/glubb-empire.pdf

  188. Oscar says:

    Cail Corishev

    “That’s [being categorically lumped with white nationalists] inevitable, as long as you profess to any non-PC views.”

    That’s a fact. I get lumped in with white nationalists despite being a Latin American immigrant to the US just because I oppose illegal immigration.

    Then again, I come here and get accused by Luke (who has yet to produce any evidence to support his accusation) of being a “never will be American” because I’m one of those icky brown people who was born elsewhere. Never mind that I’ve sacrificed more for my adopted country than 99% of those born here (show me your love of country without works, and I’ll show you my love of country by my works).

    Sometimes you’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t.

    “So a group of people who reject feminism will contain people who also reject things like government instructions on diet, the importance of schooling, the superiority of democracy — and yes, racial equalitarianism.”

    White nationalism (or any racial nationalism) is a lot more than just rejecting racial equlitarianism.

    I reject racial equalitarianism. I also reject individual equalitarianism. At least the “Liberal”, PC understanding of it.

    Every human is created in God’s image, and is therefore endowed with equal moral value before God, and deserves equal protection before the law. That doesn’t mean we’re all equally gifted. In fact, the Bible teaches the opposite. Equal outcomes are impossible, and attempts to make them possible result in greater misery.

    I also believe in freedom of association. If a racist who owns a restaurant refuses to serve my family because I’m Hispanic, my wife is white and five of my kids are Ethiopian, I’d rather know that up front so I don’t waste my money in his/her restaurant. I may even publicize the experience so others who believe as I do avoid the place, but I certainly don’t want Big Brother to force the racist to serve me.

    Racial nationalists go further than that. They want Big Brother to force people apart at gun point based on their race. That is the opposite of freedom of association.

    Racial nationalists are just as much anti-liberty as the worst Leftist, though they refuse to see it.

  189. Oscar, you’re probably right. I don’t pay much attention to the white nationalists, so I don’t know how far they take things. But that’s kind of the point: all of us who step outside the left’s definition of acceptable thought are guilty by association with all others who do so, no matter how much we wrap ourselves in disclaimers — even if we’re unaware of what those other unacceptable groups think. As you say, that’s irrelevant to the left: write a blog post opposing something like mass immigration, and you might as well be the editor of your very own pro-slavery neo-Nazi newsletter.

  190. Luke says:

    TFH says:
    September 12, 2014 at 3:00 pm
    Brass Cat,

    “When we in the US educate someone we have built up a great deal of intellectual capital in that person. There needs to be an option of a smooth transition from student visa to a work visa with the added benefit of green cards for the wife and children. If we were smart we’d be making every effort to keep this intellectual capital. After all, it is a competition between nations for this resource.

    YES.

    It takes about $500K to educate a child from K through a STEM B.S. degree in the US. When we import someone readymade with these credentials into the US, that is a $500K subsidy into the US. To make it hard for this subsidy to come in, is insane (Canada has a much smarter immigration policy).

    Furthermore, highly skilled immigration has made the US the center of global business networks.

    Lastly, importing of highly skilled labor from China and India, given the high growth of those economies, creates much higher velocity-of-money from the international transactions, which increases US GDP as well.

    Too many people cannot grasp this. At The Spearhead, there are a couple of notable idiots who insist that no immigrants are skilled, and that Asians in Silicon Valley could never succeed on merit and have only succeeded due to massive affirmative action (I kid you not, there are idiots who truly believe this).

    A large part of the reason Canada has leapfrogged the US in many measures is much smarter, skills-centric immigration policies.”

    1) Much of the “cost” to educate an infant through 23 years or so of being a STEM B.S. degree holder is borne by his family. The public schools being what they are, not so many of those kids come exclusively through there any more. As evidence, look at how few products of broken homes (and even more starkly, bastardy) become really successful at the highest levels (Nobel Prize science winners, CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, Armed Forces generals, science/engineering grad degrees from tough schools, careers using the latter that span 20 years or more, whatever metric you choose.)

    However, many 3rd World-origin degrees are poor-quality, and rightly not recognized in much of the West. Many U.S. companies prefer HB1 Visa workers due to much lower wage costs possible, and that those visa workers are legally unable to quit for a job with better treatment. (Being near-serfs makes them naturally more hesitant to blow the whistle on unsavory business practices as well, nontrivial in this day of widespread poor ethics in business.)

    2) I have never said that North Asian kids average dumb. They average more accomplished than whites at memorization and work ethic. (The Chicom foreign exchange students at my first graduate school were downright unsettling WRT industriousness.). They do tend as a group if forever completely immersed to have some difficulties in widest-step creativity, to say nothing of what impediments their languages often give them. (A very skilled Chinese language typist is under 20 WPM.)

    3) There is definite discrimination against North Asians in admission to Ivy League colleges and a few other places, akin to what there is against whites relative to blacks and Hispanics in most large corporations, college admissions, and much government employment.

    4) There is no need for gov’t to “force” people apart by race (other than reversing the 1965 immigration act and protecting the border). People will live, work, shop, etc., predominantly with their own if not forced by gov’t to be together. (It’s called “Freedom of Association”, a natural law that trumps anything the government might wish.) How many white males with complete genitalia who run a successful company he started from nothing would willingly hire one of Louis Farrakhan’s close friends (who dislikes whites even more than he does), a multipierced tatttoed Women’s Studies degree holder, an open& evangelistic homosexual or Satanist, etc., to come be a ticking time bomb in his company, if not forced to by fear of the gov’t? (Yes, Satanists, homosexuals, Andrea Dworkin/Valerie Solanus feminists, etc., should all be free to not hire anyone but themselves in all the Fortune 500 companies they will of course found anytime now that the cis Christian patriarchy has stopped oppressing them these last 40 years .)

    5) Jared Diamond is overrated. Societies cut down their trees and collapse. Other than perhaps his observations on domestic animals and crops, the man hardly has any other ideas. Better to read Samuel Huntingdon, Gibbon, the U.S. Founding Fathers, the better ancient Roman/Greek writers or Thomas Chittum/Jean Raspail to get an idea what makes societies work.

    6) The PEOPLE there are a country. It’s no accident that the illiterate hunter-gatherers (with no ability to smelt metal, use gunpowder or the wheel, etc.) made up one type of country in North America in 1490. Neither is it that the people of 1900 here made up another — and those that will be here in 2030 will be yet another. (Look at Detroit or Brownsville TX for some idea on how the latter will be like, reflecting little what the former once was, say.)

    7) Plenty of people who opposed Germany when National Socialists agreed that their own blood should remain the standard in their own nation. Bringing up the group that ran Germany’s gov’t for 12 years almost 70 years ago of course puts the above poster in violation of the second half of Godwin’s Law of internet debating: ” there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress”.

  191. bradford says:

    @Luke

    It seems the “multiculturalists” have taken over this thread. I guess if you are a white man and you would prefer that your children look like you and carry your genes that you must be a Nazi. If you don’t buy into ” the diversity is our strength” meme of the MSM that has been crammed down our throats, then you are a “White Nationalist” whatever that is (skinhead?). It’s clear that in our PC society the one and only unforgivable sin is racism, or to appear as racist, or to be accused of racism. You only have to look at how the tone of this thread changed to see it. The Brass Cat threw the racist/Nazi card and immediately everyone lined up to prove how unracist they were. “I can’t be racist, I’m brown and have five adopted Ethiopian children”. I’m not racist My people came from Central America 500 years ago(?)”. “I’m not racist I think every Asian in the world should be able to come to the US and compete for American jobs even if it drives Amercan wages down and impoverishes fellow Americans”. And on and on.

    I think Luke has made several valid points concerning race in this country. Heredity is powerful. Unlike what I was taught in school 40 years ago, science’s growing understanding of DNA is revealing that genetics may play a larger role in human behavior than was once believed. This is a very taboo topic because, racism. Nicholas Wade’s recent book, “A Troublesome Inheritance” addresses the topic very cautiously and he is receiving the very predictable pushback and hysterics from the usual suspects. We will see where our religion of multicultural takes us in the next 30-50 years.

  192. bradford says:

    One more thing. I am a Christian man (flawed but continuing to seek God). I’m not a PUA. I like this blog because it gives me red pill insight into the behavior of my wife, daughter and mother. As a Christian husband, father and son I am trying to lead these women in the right way, God’s way. Red pill insight has made a lot of things much clearer to me and helped me to be a better leader in my family.

    As a white male I am pounded with our society’s dogma of “white male privilege”, diversity and “multiculturalism” every minute of every day. I prefer not to receive an additional dose here. When the same PC thought Gestapo follows me into this little oasis of sexual sanity it is extremely discouraging.

  193. Perhaps those on the highest end of IQ can zoom out and explain a thread about older births, showing that it is a yawner statistic, became a debate akin to The Bell Curve.

    More alarming to me is seeing the 40 year old couple, he with thick framed glasses, her with severe hair, carting a wagon load of baby comfort technology through their local urban green space letting the baby lick hummus from their fingers.

  194. Elspeth says:

    Perhaps those on the highest end of IQ can zoom out and explain how a thread about older births, showing that it is a yawner statistic, became a debate akin to The Bell Curve.

    LOL. When this would inevitably happen at TC, we had a commenter -I am fairly certain it was Julian O’Dea aka David Collard- who would leave the room, so to speak with these words: “The Americans are discussing race… again”.

  195. The Brass Cat says:

    @bradford

    Sorry for driving the tread into the ditch.

    This conversation started with our ideal pillars of society and how they are all being eroded by Feminism. I suggested a more selective immigration policy, “Quality > Quantity.”

    Based on my observations I made an offhand remark: “The manosphere attracts a lot of white nationalists. I’m not sure what the connection is.” This changed the trajectory of the thread.

    Leftism is my pet subject. Most conversations with me (online) end with me deconstructing Leftism and their lies. The majority of manosphere participants seems to lean right. So it is ironic, in my opinion, to see white nationalists (not necessarily declared but hitting all the talking points) posting in the manosphere because they are hard left-wing. Leftists. This plays into the deliberate misconception that the Nazis were right-wing when in fact they were far left. That’s why I brought them up.

    As for immigration, I am NOT advocating for a flood of immigrants. Immigration needs to be controlled so we get A) quality value-adding immigrants, and B) less unskilled laborers. The net migration would be much lower under such policies. It is not healthy for a nation to take in immigrants faster than they can be assimilated. There are areas of the US that are becoming Little Mexicos and I believe having nations within nations is a destabilizing force.

    I’m not a multiculturalist in that I don’t see government having a role in manipulating people’s freedom of association. However, a sane immigration policy would result in immigrants assimilating into the overall culture instead of carving out enclaves. Currently we are on the fast track to a pluralistic society, for better or worse.

    That whole “white male privilege” garbage is really played out. I’m tired of hearing about how evil I am, too.

  196. Boxer says:

    Dear Oscar:

    Racial nationalists go further than that. They want Big Brother to force people apart at gun point based on their race. That is the opposite of freedom of association.

    Right. This is my main problem with them, too. Immediately, they see I’m a White dude, so they feel compelled to come and preach themselves into my face, like some sort of deranged Mormon missionary on meth. I occasionally date Black chicks, and they’ll make all sorts of womanly, passive-aggressive remarks, alluding to the fact that I have “jungle fever” or some sort of fetish.

    (Not that there aren’t fetish types, but in my case, I don’t really go for that. If there’s some hot chick that looks good in my vicinity, I generally go chat her up… some of these are not my hue, and that’s secondary to my general purposes).

    Anyway, I have no problem at all with people, provided they keep their little preferences and hangups to themselves. I will get along perfectly well with crossburners and New Afrikans, until they decide to mouth off in my presence, at which point I get them as far away from me as possible.

    Boxer

  197. When in Rome….

    I live in a place that in the last eight years has strained my quiet internal preconceptions or lack of them on race.

    Oddly, growing up in an all white small rural town, I felt when I went to college that I was better prepared for racial diversity of students than most others. I once had a very beautiful black girl pick me up in a campus bar. Its age revealing that she said, a bit buzzed, “do you like TV?” (I was watching a bar TV). “Yes”, She said, “I have one in my room”. Its so goofy I wouldn’t make it up.

    Later, I was playing backgammon with mostly black athletes in my dorm (for some reason I was randomly assigned lodging amidst the basketball and football teams), and the 6’11” basketball team center from Brooklyn (later played for the Spurs as a bench guy and is still a Christmas card exchanging friend) who had an affinity for me the average white guy (no connection to that 70’s band) from the midwest , brought that girl up because she really was one of the most attractive girls in our cluster of residences on campus, and the other guys started making enthusiastic comments until he said-just like this- “yo, my man empath here has been with XXXXXl” . That maybe did her no good.

    Now after that TMI, its very very difficult for me to have the open attitude I have always had. This is not necessarily a good thing, but its a thing. A friend who recently moved here from LA, where negative racial thinking or commentary was purged long before gluten was, shared last week conspiratorially that (whispered) “I’m really struggling man, I’m gettin’ biases and stuff”

  198. Opus says:

    Apropos that single fifty-one year old successful business woman (is there any other type) who was pregnant again, and who alleges ‘having had a string of long-term relationships’ (and all with driven A-type personality males). Is her claim not oxymoronic – unless it is a very short string.

  199. Opus says:

    Have I guessed correctly?: TFH sees himself as a legal alien and skilled and is in the way of business and fancies his chances with white women although he is concerned about the possibility of false rape allegations. How convenient when ones philosophy is supported by ones interest.

    I always thought that the purpose of mass third-world immigration was to obtain cheap servants and former pole-dancing Mail Order Thai-brides. What I have never understood is why France isn’t good enough and how twenty-two miles of sea can be successfully crossed without a Visa.

  200. KP says:

    I would recommend reading Guns, Germs, and Steel.

    I certainly wouldn’t. Buncha just-so stories…

  201. Opus says:

    I have to agree that Europe is not like America in that America really is as it claims a nation of immigrants – every American is keen to advise you from where they came and every American President shortly after taking office makes a Mecca-like pilgrimage to a hamlet in England so as to return to his roots – even Obama found a village in Ireland which he called home, but the same is not the case with the English or English Prime Ministers – I live about ten miles to the west of the earliest Opuses that I can trace directly – that is to say from just after the interregnum. (civil Wars a very bad thing). When we regard even the skirt-wearing haggis-munching pipe-droning Scots as beyond any civilizational pale you can see how it is for everyone else. Lucky then for TFH that Mr and Mrs TFH senior flipped the immigration coin for America rather than Britain. Notice also how immigrants like TFH (yes I know he is second generation) are only too happy to close the gate on later arrivals, in his case happy to kick out the beanies (I would guess). A white person distinguishing between documented and non-documented migrants is prone to the accusation of Racism, but then only white people are racist. You know that is the case when you see immigrants who have been here for forty years reading the Daily Mail. They don’t think the Mail could possibly be referring to them. Now all we need is to find a suitable girl for TFH – there must be one.

    Not that I am knocking India: India is a great civilisation that swallows everything it touches and (not that I have been there – but I am told that) if an Indian is not a great spin-bowler he is then almost certainly a great Mathematician. Surely TFH is both. How can one not like a country whose movies – no matter the genre – break every twenty minutes or so, for a song and dance number.

  202. Opus says:

    @TFH

    As it says in the good book ‘Lying lips are an abomination unto the Lord’. Proverbs 12:22

    Sadly the same book is silent as to the genetic make-up of Britain, but my money is on the Celts.

  203. johnnesteutes says:

    @TFH

    Thank you for identifying WNs as that most gravest of evils, female-centric fertility cults. God called the Israelites out of such wicked cultures, and commanded them to put to death anyone caught worshiping such false idols.

  204. Oscar says:

    @bradford

    “The Brass Cat threw the racist/Nazi card and immediately everyone lined up to prove how unracist they were. “I can’t be racist, I’m brown and have five adopted Ethiopian children”.”

    If you think I mentioned mine and my adopted children’s heritage in order to “prove” that I am not a racist, then you’re not nearly as intelligent as you evidently think you are.

    Could that be a function of heredity?

  205. Oscar says:

    @Boxer

    “I occasionally date Black chicks, and they’ll make all sorts of womanly, passive-aggressive remarks, alluding to the fact that I have “jungle fever” or some sort of fetish.”

    It’s instructive that both bradford and Luke voluntarily provided examples of womanly, passive-aggressive behavior on this thread.

  206. Oscar says:

    @TFH says:

    Thanks for the compliments. Like I stated earlier, adopting our kids is the best thing my wife and I have ever done, and we’re unlikely to top it. It’s not a coincidence that Americans adopt more children than any other people by an enormous margin. Nor is it a coincidence that most Americans who adopt are conservative Christians.

    “Brad A did something similar to what you did (he adopted 4 siblings), and it did not work out for him in the long run, so you may want to chat with him about which pitfalls to avoid (if you have not already). Here’s to hoping that your outcome turns out better than his did.”

    Brad and I discussed his situation over at Cane’s blog. It’s undeniably terrible. It’s unfortunate, however, that every negative adoption anecdote gets extrapolated into a warning against adoption in general. For some reason, the same is not true of all the horror stories involving biological children, which are far more abundant.

    I provide my own example as a counterpoint because it’s the one I know best, but I could also provide examples from two high school friends of mine who adopted sibling sets (5 and 4) out of foster care, or two fellow Army families who adopted sibling sets internationally (Ethiopia and India). All of us, by the way, have both biological and adopted children.

    Success stories like ours don’t get talked about nearly as much as the horror stories, and I think that’s a shame.

  207. Oscar says:

    @Cail Corishev

    “all of us who step outside the left’s definition of acceptable thought are guilty by association with all others who do so, no matter how much we wrap ourselves in disclaimers — even if we’re unaware of what those other unacceptable groups think. As you say, that’s irrelevant to the left: write a blog post opposing something like mass immigration, and you might as well be the editor of your very own pro-slavery neo-Nazi newsletter.”

    That is undoubtedly true.

  208. Opus says:

    As someone who is obviously highly un-American and probably pro-slavery though not I think a National or any other kind of Socialist, I am amused by TFH’s malign encouragement towards racial altruism. Oscar and Brad are of course living examples of true Christianity, but I don’t think TFH has that excuse as he wonders just how many children he presently has who in turn must be wondering just who their biological father is. TFH appears to have a dog in this fight.

  209. Casey says:

    Speaking of 50 something women……….

    Leah Thompson openly & proudly referred to herself as a ‘Cougar’ on this season’s Dancing With The Stars. Perhaps it was for the votes, as it seems all the participants fall all over themselves to stay one more week.

    I have to say, I was disappointed that she felt the compelling urge to give the ‘nod’ to “Team Woman” in such a manner.

    She has 2 daughters, and has been married for 25 years. If I were her husband, I don’t think I’d be amused with that comment. A cougar is, by definition, on the “prowl”.

    Being a cougar is certainly nothing of which to be proud.

    How many men would refer to themselves as a gigolo?

  210. bradford says:

    @Oscar

    Ok, let me try another idea. The reason you wear your “five adopted Ethiopian children” like a Boy Scout merit badge is to show the rest of us how spiritually and multiculturally evolved you are. At least that’s what it looks like from here. Is there some other reason why you feel the need to identify yourself as “the guy who adopted five Ethiopian kids”?

  211. Opus says:

    Is it not ironic that although TFH desperately wants to be white and to have whiter children (as he surely has) he berates white people for wanting likewise for their children and their country – even as he (and those like him) seek to ascribe a multi-ethnic identity so as to justify their presence to the country they seek to call home.

    America may be a nation of immigrants but originally it was merely two handfuls of colonies of English religious dissenters: even when I was young its population of two hundred million were all of European stock (save for the Negroes and Jews who made up about ten per cent thereof).

    I was talking to a medical doctor from Barts (a major teaching hospital in London) who was a first generation British Indian. Apart from his complimenting me on my good looks (I blush) he was keen to tell me how his mother (unlike himself) was pale of skin and, like TFH, he sought a white lover. Every one wants to be white and it is part of the job description for any leading man or woman in Bollywood.

    Capitalism is I feel, a rather poor substitute for religion.

  212. Oscar says:

    @bradford

    “Ok, let me try another idea. The reason you wear your “five adopted Ethiopian children” like a Boy Scout merit badge is to show the rest of us how spiritually and multiculturally evolved you are. At least that’s what it looks like from here. Is there some other reason why you feel the need to identify yourself as “the guy who adopted five Ethiopian kids”?”

    Yes, there is. And I already explained it. Isn’t it strange that despite your “genetically superior” intelligence, you still can’t comprehend what is simply written right in front of you?

  213. Oscar says:

    @TFH

    “I mean, to them, you are a juggernaut of evil. Describe your life story at Chateau Heartiste and see the reaction you get. You are almost perfectly designed to be seen by them as their worst nightmare.”

    Everything relates back to cheesy ’80s action movies.

    By the way, Afghanistan isn’t nearly as much fun as Rambo III made it out to be. So disappointing.

  214. Ellie says:

    Luke, You claim to be a Christian. That is very interesting because at the core of that concept is the submission of self to God. It is His will that a woman’s fertility expires and that a baby be carried in the womb of its own genetic mother; look at nature as He created it: 1 man + 1 woman= baby. You didn’t like the circumstances that God gave you and went against His order to change them. How is this not a sin you should be confessing and repenting of instead of congratulating yourself for? It is like the tranny who does not like being born the ‘wrong’ sex and who mutilates themselves to remake themselves in their own image. You are no different- you desecrate life.

  215. Anonymous Reader says:

    Casey
    Being a cougar is certainly nothing of which to be proud.

    Apparently it is something to be promoted via such media as “Dancing with the stars”.

    How many men would refer to themselves as a gigolo?

    How many men would watch “Dancing with the stars” if they had any choice in the matter?

  216. lurker says:

    TFH says:
    September 12, 2014 at 4:07 pm

    “(…) they have to accept that a Muslim Iranian was ravaging young girls in Eastern Europe and making money by writing about it.”

    You mean like this?
    http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.com/2012/09/roosh-v-sucks-with-women-and-doesnt.html

    (lol)

  217. Boxer says:

    It generally does no good to argue with White Power (or Black Power) types. Their motives tend to be layered beneath a lot of personal insecurities, which they oftentimes don’t even recognize themselves. Their presence on sites like these are understandable, in a way, in that we’re all here to try and uncover socially awkward truths. At the same time, they don’t really fit here. The racialist types tend to be the biggest white knights imaginable. Go to Stormfront and make even the mildest criticism of any trashy White woman, to get the idea. Your account will likely have a lifespan that rivals my last entry into the Catholic Answers forum.

    One random thing: I’ve known a fair number of White racist men, and am related to some of them (Mormons are an ethnic group, and we take pride in our Whiteness beyond any reasonable justification). Anyway, of all the dudes with weird “jungle fever” fetishes I have known, most of them have been racists. The same people who will bore you to tears preaching about loyalty to the great White race will, not infrequently, be the guys who are slipping into the ghetto for a weekly rendezvous with La’Quisha. Whereas the normal White dude might date a Black chick if she’s available and hot, the racist types have some bizarre guilt-ridden fantasies they seem to purge this way. It’s the damnedest thing, and I don’t understand it, but there it is.

  218. bradford says:

    @TFH

    Don’t think I ever accused Oscar of being a “lefty”. As far as your bizarre statement about my thoughts on his German-American wife, you must be confusing me with someone else. You may want to look up thread where I state that I wish Oscar and his adopted children well. I agree that adopting this many children is risky and a sacrifice and assume from comments he has made that he and his wife felt led by God. I have commend him for that up thread and acknowledge his act of faith. What I don’t understand is, as a Christian, his apparent need to broadcast his adoption situation as “his” big thing, “see how holy and selfless and unracist I am”. That is all.

    I am aware that one of Mitt Romney’s sons adopted a black child. But Mitt never tried to get political “look at me, I’m truly multicultural” mileage because of it. I never heard him even mention it once; an example of true humility.

    As for Oscar’s military service, as a vet myself, I respect him for it, but I spent too many years in the Army to automatically place everyone who has been in service on a pedestal. Spent 8 years active duty in Combat Engineer troop units; three on the eastern border of the old West Germany, three in the 101st Abn. In service I came to know many honorable men that I would be willing to trust with my life. However I also met my share of blowhards, dumbsh*ts and jackasses.

    Now if you’ll excuse me I have to go. I don’t want to be late for my weekly White Supremacy/Nazi/Skinhead meeting.

  219. Joseph says:

    How cruel to the child. She will be almost 90 when the kid is 40. Most people would have parents in their 60s at that age.

  220. Lyn87 says:

    “Oscar is an immigrant from Latin America, who fought in the armed services.”

    Ruh-roh, Shaggy… I’m a half-breed by WN standards, I also served in the U.S. military, and I married a hot white chick (primarily of Scandinavian descent). But she’s been infertile her whole life (so we and her doctors think), so I guess I may “get a bye” since I ensured that she did not thwarting the genetic immortality of some Aryan dude who might have otherwise married her and been turned into a genetic cul-de-sac… because she married me instead. I dunno’, does my wife lose WN points for miscegenation because she married me, or does she gain WN points by ensuring that my inferior half-breed genes are never passed on? It’s so confusing.

    Anyway… it’s more about culture than melanin. Whatever nefarious activities my Amerind maternal ancestors were up to 500 years ago, I’m a product of Western Civilization in the here-and-now. When I visited Greece to tour the battlefields of the Greco-Persian Wars, I knew more about the significance of the Battle of Salamis than the concierge who told me how to get there – and he was a veteran of the Greek Navy who worked about 10 miles from the Salamis Strait!

    One of these Oscar and I will have to teach some of you guys the secret handshake.

  221. Opus says:

    When TFH says that half the problems in Rotherham (assuming that any of that is true) are caused by Pakistanis and the other half by British Authorities (who incidentally are also largely Pakistani – at least the CEO of Barnardos is and they were much involved) notice that this is a very thinly veiled attack on Muslims. Anyway, there are no Pakistanis in Rotherham: merely British men whose ethnic origins are irrelevant, for as TFH will explain, to draw attention to ethnic origins is racist!

    It is also the case that Americans (TFH proving inadvertently as I have said all along that that is, despite his encyclopaedic knowledge of Bollywood Stars, what he is) should keep out of the affairs of other countries – no matter how worthy that intervention may be – for neither Yorkshire nor Ebola are yet, I think, American States.

    I predict another Projection-asserting CAPS LOCKED tirade.

  222. Luke says:

    Ellie, by your reasoning, ANY medical care is “unnatural” and “clearly against God’s Will”. If you’ve ever taken an antibiotic or pain reliever, seen a gyn/ob for a pelvic exam, used so much as a midwife (let alone a hospital) for delivery in childbirth, used a bandage or topical antiseptic, had an X-ray or blood test, etc., you’ve gone against how God would have wanted things to play out for you, by your thinking. “Natural” is what animals do when deer see one of their number hit by an 18-wheeler: “sniff” “nudge” “Ok, this one’s toast” “walk away”. “Unnatural IS ANYTHING MORE THAN THAT. God give me and my family the means to continue getting “unnatural” help with our health issues, as those come up during our lives. (I’d love to get my heart and lungs replaced by clone organ transplants, as most boozers would likely see the point to a new liver.)

    What we did to get our family was a sort of early, intentional adoption, except that the kids are mine genetically. I suppose I could have tried to wife up a not-yet-PID-infertile slut instead. That of course would have likely resulted in a broken home for the kids sooner or later, and left to pink collar careerism and cat collecting a woman who always wanted to be a mother, but, hey, if you think that’s a preferred outcome, well, I think you’re using something besides logic for problem-solving.
    ===============================================
    Re “mulattos” and the pure minorities: the latter are no better per se, being purely “not mine”.
    Both cases are dominantly “other”, and belong where “others” already are.
    ================================================
    Re the bringing 5 African kids here, doing your part to make your neighborhood predominantly nonwhite: did you think to ask your neighbors first, if they thought that was a good idea, something they’d be happy about? Why would they not get input into bringing people into the area in which they already live (were there first) whose friends are likely to one day include gangbangers, or at least friends/relatives of gangbangers? Look, once an area becomes 10% nonwhite (classifying only upper-class north Asians as an exception) two things start to happen. One, crime (violent as well as property) starts to go up in a noticeable way. Take a look at Figure 1 in this article: http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/hood.htm for a mathematical expression of this phenomenon.
    Two, the whites move away (abandoning their homes if they must) to safer places in a clear positive-feedback mechanism that ends in zero living whites there. (Those in abandoned cemetaries, as behind enemy lines as the ones in East Detroit, hardly count.)
    An “integrated neighborhood” is just a chronological snapshot, a stage between the first NAM moving in — and the last white moving away or dying. Like how the Western Hemisphere has over 20 countries dominated by nonwhites, and only two that are mainly white (with our culture and language, too, not just our skin), there are already enough places for nonwhites to live. That includes households, whether in America or elsewhere. Do we really need any more little Somalias/Congos? It’s a pretty s****y thing you’re doing to your neighbors, who surely have done nothing to you to deserve this.

  223. James K says:

    @Opus:

    It is amusing that you consider that the problems reported in Rotherham (and many other places) might be entirely untrue.

    If you perceive criticism (let’s not call it an “attack”: this is an instance when inflammatory language is unhelful) of Muslims, then this is not surprising because the perpetrators were all Muslims, nearly all with roots in Pakistan and Kashmir. It is a Muslim problem: Hindus and Sikhs appear to be able to get through life in Britain without this kind of organised criminal deviancy.

    Skin pigmentation is irrelevant. Culture is changeable by assimilation, though it might take a generation. The thing that is not changeable is religion, because it is non-negotiable. Regrettably, Wahhabism/Salafism is now one of the strands of mainstream Sunni Islam, because Saudi Arabia is paying to export it to the rest of the world (and, at the same time, keep Saudi radicals away from home where they might cause trouble for the Saudi royal family).

    This is not going to go away.

    A child born in Birmingham is more likely to be Muslim than Christian:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2755654/The-changing-face-Britain-A-child-Birmingham-likely-Muslim-Christian.html

    It is not uncommon now in Birmingham to see women wearing the veil. Thirty years ago this was extremely rare in Britain, except for rich Arabs in Central London.

    The last three censuses show that mass immigration from Muslim countries is actually accelerating. The number of Muslims in Britain increased by 50% from 1991 to 2001, and by 70% from 2001 to 2011.

    Twice as many British Muslims are fighting for ISIS than in the UK Armed Forces:

    http://www.newsweek.com/twice-many-british-muslims-fighting-isis-armed-forces-265865

    15% of “French” people support ISIS:

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/islamic-state-one-six-french-people-say-they-support-isis-caliphate-1462680

    In many European countries we are experiencing a demographic collapse, with a slow but inexorable replacement of the population.

    It may be that large-scale immigration is the most practical solution to our demographic problem; but there are plenty of countries whose people have all the virtues of Pakistanis, but none of their vices. Why do we continue to take immigrants from Pakistan? Oh yes, I remember, it’s so British Pakistanis can marry first cousins from their home village in Pakistan.

    One day we will stop this kind of immigration, and we will take whatever legal measures are necessary – even if it means leaving the European Convention on Human Rights. The Convention was meant to protect us from a return to fascism, not to be a suicide pact.

  224. Lyn87 says:

    Luke asks:

    Why would they not get input into bringing people into the area in which they already live (were there first) whose friends are likely to one day include gangbangers, or at least friends/relatives of gangbangers?…

    …It’s a pretty s****y thing you’re doing to your neighbors, who surely have done nothing to you to deserve this.

    Interesting… I would have thought that Oscar’s neighbor’s racial preferences ceased to matter at their property line. I may be an ignorant half-breed, but that’s one of the things I like about Western Civilization: property rights. As long as someone is not breaking the law or impinging on the rights of others, it’s really nobody’s business but their own. My house does not belong to my neighbors, or to my neighborhood: it belongs to me and my wife.

    I guarantee that everyone here would be much happier with me, or my parents, or the very nice black family that lives next door to my parents, as neighbors than some of my white-trash relatives: good northern European stock that they are.

    I have to say though, that my paternal grandmother – the stiff-upper-lipped matriarch of my father’s family – was none-too-pleased when my father married my mother – a wetback. White boys from good families just didn’t do that sort of thing in the 1950’s. On the other hand, her favorite son (one of my uncles) married a red-headed white girl and they had three sons… who turned into a pack of criminals. Of course they didn’t knock over any 7-11’s – white boys from good families don’t so that sort of thing, either. Nope: my very white cousins stole millions with pens and accounting entries and whispers and handshakes… and then tithed on their ill-gotten gains to their church. No – I’m not kidding.

    Look, nobody with any sense wants to live in a high-crime neighborhood, but even though I look like just some middle-class, middle-age white dude, I’m a lot more comfortable – and a lot less likely to end up as a bloody mess on the floor – in a black church than a white biker bar. It’s about the culture.

  225. Lyn87 says:

    I think I answered my own question from earlier:

    I’m a half-breed by WN standards, I also served in the U.S. military, and I married a hot white chick (primarily of Scandinavian descent). But she’s been infertile her whole life (so we and her doctors think), so I guess I may “get a bye” since I ensured that she did not thwart the genetic immortality of some Aryan dude who might have otherwise married her and been turned into a genetic cul-de-sac… because she married me instead. I dunno’, does my wife lose WN points for miscegenation because she married me, or does she gain WN points by ensuring that my inferior half-breed genes are never passed on?

    While a fertile white woman would lose three WN points for 1) miscegenation, 2) not bearing white babies, and 3) bearing brown babies… an infertile white woman like my wife gains two WN points because, being infertile, 1) she did not marry a white guy and thus prevent one of them from fathering legitimate white children… and 2) she ensured that my inferior half-breed genes would not be passed on at all. Wow – she seems so nice, I never would have guess that she was just “taking one for the WN team.”

    Either way, I’m a half-breed married to a White Goddess! Break out the Blatz and the pork rinds! Do I get to yell, “BINGO!” or something?

  226. Oscar says:

    @bradford

    “What I don’t understand is, as a Christian, his apparent need to broadcast his adoption situation as “his” big thing, “see how holy and selfless and unracist I am”. That is all.”

    What I don’t understand is why a man of supposedly genetically superior intelligence finds himself incapable of understanding what I’ve spelled out repeatedly.

  227. Oscar says:

    Remember when I stated that racial nationalists are just as anti-liberty as the worst Leftist? Luke just went out of his way to prove me right.

    Luke says:
    September 16, 2014 at 6:49 pm

    “Re the bringing 5 African kids here, doing your part to make your neighborhood predominantly nonwhite: did you think to ask your neighbors first, if they thought that was a good idea, something they’d be happy about? Why would they not get input into bringing people into the area in which they already live (were there first) whose friends are likely to one day include gangbangers, or at least friends/relatives of gangbangers?”

    If I was obligated to ask my neighbors whether or not I should bring my Ethiopian kids into the neighborhood, I’d also be obligated to ask them if I could move into the neighborhood.

    I’M NOT WHITE, GENIUS.

    I’m a Latin American immigrant. And yet, somehow, I managed to not only avoid gang membership or friendship with anyone in a gang, but I somehow managed to earn two engineering degrees and command American troops in combat. I know those facts don’t fit into your world view, but they’re still facts.

    More importantly, Lyn87 points out the obvious anti-liberty bent in Luke’s statement.

    Lyn87 says:
    September 16, 2014 at 10:12 pm

    “I would have thought that Oscar’s neighbor’s racial preferences ceased to matter at their property line. I may be an ignorant half-breed, but that’s one of the things I like about Western Civilization: property rights. As long as someone is not breaking the law or impinging on the rights of others, it’s really nobody’s business but their own. My house does not belong to my neighbors, or to my neighborhood: it belongs to me and my wife.”

    As Lyn points out, Luke doesn’t even understand the concept of property rights, or individual liberty in general. Or maybe he does understand them, but rejects them.

    Ironically, Luke presents himself as a champion of Western Civilization, but Western Civilization reached its greatness precisely because of concepts that Luke either doesn’t understand, or does understand and rejects.

    It’s because of people like Luke – who don’t understand, or reject individual liberty – that Western Civilization is losing its greatness.

  228. Luke says:

    TFH says:
    September 16, 2014 at 11:57 pm

    “Ironically, Luke presents himself as a champion of Western Civilization, but Western Civilization reached its greatness precisely because of concepts that Luke either doesn’t understand, or does understand and rejects.

    Indeed. America has succeeded in spite of people like Luke.

    Correction. America grew when whites were proud of what they were, and had children more than enough to replace themselves. Now, they’re largely not proud anymore, no longer defend their country’s territory or have children enough to replace the dead — and every U.S. state bordering Mexico has more nonwhite, 3rd-World-origin children than white ones. When a region consists more of nonwhite foreign colonists than it is native-born whites, what culture, language, and finally law and political control do you expect to hold sway there?

  229. Random Angeleno says:

    Let me remind Luke that America has redefined “white” people more than once during its history. As a white man of a certain age, I’m old enough to have white grandparents who with their siblings happened to have the wrong religion and the wrong nationality of origin. So poorly were they regarded back then that only blacks were definitely below them in the social pecking order. So poorly were they regarded back then that when a grand-uncle was supposed to graduate first in his high school class and be the class valedictorian, the school board decided they couldn’t have this white guy and found a technicality to knock him down a peg and replace him with a politically correct white guy. White, Luke, white…

    Let me also remind Luke that he is in all likelihood descended from immigrants who arrived in this country sometime between 1840 and 1900. Let me repeat that for his benefit: his ancestors were IMMIGRANTS. According to their nativist peers at the time, his IMMIGRANT ancestors were no better regarded in that time than the illegal aliens we’re dealing with today. And now we are presented with Luke on his high horse. What irony, what hypocrisy …

    Let me remind Luke of one more thing: white people can be dang trashy in behavior. They don’t say “white trash” or make jokes about rednecks for nothing. Or go to the UK sometime and check out the white underclass there. Yobs and asbo’s are common slang, check that out. Yes Luke, they’re American and they’re English and they’re white and they’re yours.

  230. Oscar says:

    @Luke

    That doesn’t change the fact that you expressed anti-individual-liberty sentiments here. Nor does it change the fact that individual liberty is what made possible the innovation and opportunity that made Western Civilization – and the US in particular – great.

    In other words, you oppose what made the US great, yet you accuse me of diminishing the US while providing zero evidence to support your accusation.

    So, where’s the evidence supporting your claims that I’ve done what you accuse me of doing?

    “When a region consists more of nonwhite foreign colonists than it is native-born whites, what culture, language, and finally law and political control do you expect to hold sway there?”

    My property is a region that consists of one Latin American immigrant male (me), one American-born woman of German descent (my wife), five Ethiopian kids and three mixed race kids. What holds sway on my property are…

    Culture: Judeo-Christian
    Language: English, with Spanish and French as second languages
    Law: American constitutional law

    Again, where is the evidence supporting the accusations you’ve leveled at me?

  231. John Nesteutes says:

    The spectacle of “Christian” white nationalists is a sad, sad thing.

    I don’t need to tell you which ethno-religious groups crank out the most white babies in America, either. Hint: it’s not goofy WNs ascribing to some weird neo-pagan religion.

  232. Opus says:

    It is surprising, to me, that a blog – informally part of the Christian Manosphere – should in the case of Rotherham (a Borough – or town – by the way, and not a City) lapse into white-knight, anti-Muslim rhetoric. The report from feminist women’s studies Professor, Alexis Jay, wherein Hypotheses is piled upon Hypotheses in a thinly disguised attack on male heterosexuality deduced that in Rotherham no less than fourteen-hundred white teenage girls were against their will and by some sort of ‘game’ that would be the envy of any PUA, made willing sex-toys of Muslims. One always has to be suspicious of numbers ending in multiple cyphers (zeros).

    Here is some proper arithmetic. Rotherham has a population of a quarter of a million. The population of England is said to be approximately fifty million. I adduce therefore that if Rotherham has been repeated (as Professor Jay thinks it has) throughout the country, then the total number of white English sluts happily trading sex for Muslim goodies must total no less than two hundred and eighty thousand. It would mean that in the Royal Borough of One Hundred Thousand wherein I reside the number of teenage girls having sex with Muzzies must total five hundred and sixty – Dear Lord! the local Mosque can barely hold a hundred people.

    I call BS on this racist misandry.

    The word Ham, by the way, is Anglo Saxon for settlement, so it is rather surprising that the River Rother is situate in (God’s own country) Sussex, some five hundred miles away, and not in Yorkshire; such are the anomalies of an island (‘a sea-surrounded nook, a cloud-enshadowed land’)that has been populated for hundreds of thousand of years. One does not have to be a Young Earth supporter to see – as sadly, many don’t – that out of Africa 50,000 years is scientific fantasy hardened into Dogma.

  233. Casey says:

    Anonymous Reader said:
    September 16, 2014 at 11:41 am

    “How many men would watch “Dancing with the stars” if they had any choice in the matter?”

    Good one!
    I knew I was risking some sort of DWTS snide comment by stating my observation.
    I would have been disappointed if I didn’t get at least one.

    We can all go back to watching football now.

  234. Robin Munn says:

    @Opus –

    The problem with the math you just did is that it assumes a homogenous distribution of Muslim immigrants throughout England, which is not the case. Immigrants of any culture tend to “clump” together. For example, a Korean man immigrates to Dallas, TX, USA. What’s he going to do first? He’s going to ask all his acquaintances if they know anyone in Dallas, and eventually get in touch with another Korean who immigrated earlier. Result: the other Korean helps him get an apartment, most likely in the same neighborhood. Repeat this hundreds of times and you get a neighborhood that’s majority-Korean.

    Same thing happens with most immigrants in most countries, including Pakistanis in England. So it’s highly unlikely that the Pakistani/non-Pakistani distribution in Rotherham would be similar to the distribution elsewhere. Far more likely is that Rotherham represents a high concentration of Pakistanis. Which in turn means that your math-based argument falls apart. The horrifying events in Rotherham mentioned in the report could very well have happened as the report says, without the same things having happened in your community (where, as you yourself point out, the local mosque would hold fewer than a hundred people — another strike against the premise of your argument).

    Finally, just a tip. You appear to have bought into the “criticism of Muslims must be based on anti-Muslim prejudice” nonsense: the rhetoric you deploy in your latest comment is full of it. You’d be wise to rid yourself of that idea; it’s giving you ideological blinders that are going to harm your ability to see the world as it really is.

  235. Lyn87 says:

    Re: expanding the definition of “white.”

    There is a school of thought that humanity is comprised of three races: Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid, and that individuals are some admixture of those. Personally, I think there’s only one race – the human race, but others differ with me. In any case, some people posit five races: White, Black, Brown, Yellow, and Red – which strikes me as even more silly.

    I suppose Oscar’s and my category depends upon which theory of human migration one accepts, since we both have ancestors from Latin America. Are we Mongoloid because the Western Hemisphere was reached via the Bering Strait from Asia, or are we Red because Meso-Americans are Amerind, or are we Brown because we’re… well… brown? Oh, and I look like a regular White guy unless I’m in the sun for very long, in which case I look quite a bit more Hispanic. Or am I White because I use words like “admixture” and phrases like, “in which case…?” FWIW, my mother is 100% Latina and considers herself White – Hispanic.

    I only wrote all that to highlight the absurdity of it all. It’s culture that matters, and religion is a major (arguably THE major) component of culture. I would posit that the long-term success of the West owes a great deal more to the fact that the teachings of a certain 1st-Century Jewish carpenter were widely accepted among Europeans than to anything else, including their DNA.

    Re: “Third World.”

    The term came into being after WW2 as the nations aligned themselves (or not) in relation to the two superpowers (USA and USSR). The “First World” was the US and those nations in her orbit, the “Second World” was the USSR and those nations in her orbit, and the “Third World” was everyone else. Over the years the term “First World” came to symbolize advanced nations, “Third World” came to symbolize backwards and poverty-stricken ones, and the term “Fourth World” was added to mean indigenous peoples who had little contact with anyone else (like the tribes in the interior of New Guinea or deep in the Amazon rainforest). How one categorizes a nation now is largely a matter of subjective opinion, and depends on what one is used to and what part of the other country one considers to define its status. Even many “First World” nations have large sections where “Third World” conditions prevail.

  236. Boxer says:

    Look, once an area becomes 10% nonwhite (classifying only upper-class north Asians as an exception) two things start to happen. One, crime (violent as well as property) starts to go up in a noticeable way.

    Even meager historical research suggests that the problem is deeper than merely “negroes cause crime”. All over the postbellum American south, all-Black towns existed which were quiet, peaceful and relatively prosperous.

    I’d point out that much of the crime in Black communities today is due to the matriarchal structure, which has artificially been imposed by the ruling class, through things like three strikes laws and the welfare state. Your father is the person who teaches you how to respect the rules of civil society, and if he’s been arrested for back child support, told by social workers to leave the home, or has been kicked out of the house by your skank-ho mama, then you’re going to grow up deficient in this regard.

    The property crime and general dilapidation found in the negro ghettoes today can also be found in all-White apartment and trailer neighborhoods which are adopting the same structure. Come to Seattle, Portland, Spokane or Boise and you’ll find exactly the same dynamic, with babymamas on welfare, who typically raise scumbags up to prey upon law-abiding citizens. These communities are full of White people who are jobless, on meth, members of biker gangs and Nazi skinhead gangs, and generally just total losers. In sum, it’s a class thing, not a race thing, and the solution is obvious.

    Boxer

  237. Anonymous Reader says:

    Casey
    Good one!
    I knew I was risking some sort of DWTS snide comment by stating my observation.
    I would have been disappointed if I didn’t get at least one.

    It’s a cute attempt at a reframe, but really an evasion of the actual issue
    that you yourself brought up. A bit of a disappointment, frankly.

    What is the actual issue? Why, the obvious fact that the Main $tream Media
    are, and have been for a generation or more, clearly in the brainwashing business.
    It is no accident that cougarism is held up as a good on such shows as “Dancing
    With The Stars”. So if one deplores cougarism, why watch shows that promote
    it, hmm? “Everyone else is doing it”, perhaps? And yes, the issue of the M$M
    promoting cougarism, along with the biologically wrong idea that women can
    credibly give birth in their 50’s, dovetails with the message given to other
    women, “Don’t settle too young! Find yourself! Experience! Establish
    yourself! Then you’ll know what you want in marriage” which we all
    know leads to young women riding the cock carousel for years,
    inflating their N and thereby making themselves very poor risk for
    stable marriage. This in turn feeds the divorce industry, and that
    damages men and children permanently as has also been
    clearly shown here and elsewhere. Divorce damages civlization.

    Is a married man viewing “Dancing With The Stars” because he enjoys the show,
    or because his wife wants to view it and he dare not contradict her?
    Does he have a real choice, or not? This falls into the realm of leadership
    or in the Bible context headship. Perhaps he views the show with his wife
    for reasons of companionship, because she really likes it, but he takes
    a bit of time to point out the obvious messages being sent by the show? That
    would be different than sitting on the couch, yawning, waiting for She Who
    Must Be Obeyed to finish her evening’s entertainment.

    We can all go back to watching football now.

    Rather boring strawman. Do you have a point to make above the
    current mud-slinging fest, or are you just trolling for flames as well?

    I’ll close with a simple question: Casey, do you stand with the divorce
    industry, feminism, cougarism, etc. or do you stand with marriage?

  238. Thinkn'Man says:

    @Boxer:
    “I’d point out that much of the crime in Black communities today is due to the matriarchal structure”

    Bravo on the above, thanks for a concise summation of something I’ve suspected for a long time.

  239. greyghost says:

    To add to Boxer being black is not enough to make a crime ridden area. The matriarchal babie momma welfare mind set needs to be in place. What people “see” and think of when the term African American is used is this PC liberal view as a standard of black people. I live in a nearly 100% black area and it is the nerdiest crime free area I have ever lived.

  240. James K says:

    @Opus:

    I’m not sure why you describe the critics as “white knights” and misandrists – unless you believe that under-age girls of a certain temperament and social class deserve to be used as child prostitutes.

    Your arithmetic is equally wrong, and disingenuous to boot. If it is true that you are a barrister, I sincerely hope that you do not attempt to deceive juries with such crooked reasoning.

    Not every borough was as rotten as Rotherham – but many were. Try the calculations again on this basis.

    The most interesting thing you will learn from such arithmetic is that, while the perpetrators were a small minority of Muslims, the percentage was not insignificant.

    The honour of a Muslim woman is staunchly defended by the men of her family, using violence if necessary. The result is that, when Muslim men want premarital or extramarital sex, the women of their own community are off-limits, and they must try their luck with kaffir (infidel) women. The child abuse phenomenon is merely the illegal tip of a huge iceberg.

    The police, social services, politicians, and the media deliberately suppressed the facts for a decade, allowing another tranche of children to be abused each year. They did this partly to appease the minorities, but largely because they didn’t want people like you to tell them they were being “racist” or “anti-Muslim”.

    For the same reason the authorities turn a blind eye if a Muslim girl “disappears” from school at the age of 12. Even if she has been sent to Pakistan to marry.

    We need to end mass immigration from the mediaeval shit-holes where this kind of criminal deviancy is considered acceptable.

    More and more people will decide to vote for such changes. They know that they will be called racists and worse; but they are realising that this is a small price to pay for the benefit of living in an open society.

  241. greyghost says:

    I would watch DWTS just to check out the ass

  242. Lyn87 says:

    greyghost says:
    September 17, 2014 at 12:19 pm

    To add to Boxer being black is not enough to make a crime ridden area.

    This thread is starting to remind me of a song from the movie “King of New York”

    Am I Black Enough For You?

    Anyway, Daniel Amneus was writing extensively about ghetto culture – specifically matriarchy – being at the root of many of the wide-spread social problems in the ghetto. He points to the fact that the Black community is farther down the track than the rest of the population, but While America is catching up, and will see the same results, as has been amply demonstrated in other times and places.

    The Case for Father Custody

    The Garbage Generation

  243. Spacetraveller says:

    Respect to these gentlemen for their well-reasoned comments which I not only enjoyed reading, but also learnt a lot about the topic of race vs class:
    Boxer, John Nesteustes, Random Angeleno, Thinking Man, Oscar, Lyn87 and TFH, and the others who commented in the same vein.
    Brilliant comments from you all.

    I also agree with Anonymous Reader on his comment to Casey @ 10.42AM, Sept 17. So true, what you say, AR. (Although to be fair to Casey, his original point was NOT to congratulate Leah but to show disdain at her professed ‘cougarship’, which bizarrely enough, she actually isn’t but for some reason wants to portray such an image of herself).

    Ellie’s and Charlotte’s comments to Luke also made me stop and think…
    These are of course very Catholic views, Ellie and Charlotte!🙂
    Again, so true…

  244. Opus says:

    When one is met as I have been above by Robin Munn and James K with attacks on my arithmetical ability, professional competence or integrity (I will take that as an ad hominem) , and most bizarrely the allegation of being an ideologue, when it might appear that that was just what I was lacking, one realises that one has inadvertently or otherwise stirred a hornet’s nest or kicked someone’s Achilles heel.

    Allow me therefore to quote from Professor Jay herself. She says that young girls are still being groomed (whatever that means) threatened and raped (statutory obviously as they seem more than willing) “in every town and village across the country”. I merely made the calculation her assertions required. Professor Jay is a modern version of a Witch-finder General and my critics are the mob jeering for a scapegoat.

    How I ask, rhetorically, on a blog like this can certain commenters fall for the blatant and demonstrably absurd misandry of Professor Jay. That I (an unrepentant defender of my own race in its own country) fall to having the unlikely task of defending the Muslims and Muslims from Pakistan at that, uninvited emigrants (at least by the general population) is not something I would confidently have predicted that I would have had to engage.

  245. James K says:

    @Opus:

    I have a copy of Professor Jay’s report, and I cannot find the claim about “in every town and village across the country”. Can you give me a page number please?

  246. infowarrior1 says:

    @Lyn87

    Considering the presence of the church in the ghetto how are the efforts to restore patriarchy going? Is it succeeding or is it floundering?

    I hate to see the ghetto remain the way it is.

  247. Lyn87 says:

    Infowarrior1,

    Unfortunately, I don’t see the church having much large-scale effect anywhere – the ghetto is just one of the more messy examples at the moment, perhaps because of a combination of factors (“LBJ, Call your office…”), and the amount of time its been going on there. We hear that the UMC is doing “okay,” but look at the culture of even the elite universities where their children go: places like Yale, Harvard, Dartmouth, Brown, UC-Berkeley, and so forth… cesspits one and all. Certainly the church has scant influence in those places, and the hooked-up, brain-dead PC, feminist, socialist, gullible “whiz kids” of the UMC are making the same stupid choices there as the kids in City College… or the ones flipping burgers. They’re not being hit as hard, yet, but they are following in the footsteps of the baby-mommas… one difference is that they get welfare from their families and their status (for now), rather than the taxpayers, and another is that their culture isn’t as far down the track.

    But the whole system is on a trajectory that won’t likely result in a soft landing, and the ghetto will probably not be the one thing to show the way back.

  248. Ellie says:

    Spacetraveller, That is funny, because I’m not actually catholic! I’m a 3-pt calvinist who does not think ‘natural law’ should be thrown out entirely. Primarily because Jesus pointed us to creation as an example. It is odd that the church at large has not started addressing these monster births. What gives people the right to tinker with life like that? One father, 3 mothers (one egg donor, one surrogate, one female parent). It is abominable. Just because God allows something does not mean He blesses it. His method of lifegiving relies on a mother carrying her own biological child. And lets not kid ourselves: most people using this bizzare method are gays who shop for a baby made to order. If you think nothing is wrong with this, then do you think there is anything wrong with a womb being implanted into a man and a man giving birth? It is all the same thing. Taking for oneself the right to determine how life (and what life) comes into the world. Claiming for humans what has always been reserved for God. The biblical term for this is ‘an abomination’.

  249. infowarrior1 says:

    @Lyn87

    What can we do then? Do we leave it all in the hands of God?

  250. Lyn87 says:

    Infowarrior1 asks me, “What can we do then? Do we leave it all in the hands of God?

    Pray to God, speak truth to men, don’t be part of the problem, don’t vote for people who will make things worse, and have a plan for when the SHTF.

    That’s about all I’ve got.

  251. John Nesteutes says:

    @Lyn87

    Plain anabaptist churches have a big whopping effect, often in areas otherwise marked by rural poverty and its usual dysfunctions.

    My experience working in a gritty, post-ndustrial dying city is that lives are radically transformed as people give their lives to Christ: of course, they often eventually move to a more rural anabaptist stronghold. Since they want to be around other people of similar values…

  252. John Nesteutes says:

    @infowarrior1

    Preach the gospel, win converts, disciple young men.

    Be radical. Obey 1 Corinthians 5 and 11, and don’t suffer any Christian women in your life who don’t do the same.

    This stuff actually works.

  253. Lyn87 says:

    John Nesteutes,

    I certainly did not wish to imply that the Gospel cannot transform lives – it certainly can… and does. Isaiah 55:11 still says, “So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

    But all have free will, and the question I was answering was whether I thought the church was going to turn large-scale ghetto culture around. I’d be happy to be wrong, but I’m not seeing it.

  254. Robin Munn says:

    @Opus –

    I agree with you that Prof. Jay’s assertion that Rotherham is being reproduced “in every town and village across the country” is ridiculous, for precisely the reasons I stated earlier. Immigrants tend to “cluster”, and it’s hard for Muslim immigrants to be committing such crimes in large numbers in the places where they are not present in large numbers. So the “every town and village across the country” part of her assertion is easily dismissed.

    But the rest of your comment is atrocious. If you truly don’t know what “grooming” means in the context of child sexual abuse, you are dangerously ignorant on the subject and need to educate yourself before you make even more of a fool of yourself.

    And as far as your “statutory obviously as they seem more than willing” comment… these are not 17-year-olds we’re talking about here. These are girls of 11 or 12. Yes, an adult can talk children into sex and make it seem like a good idea to their young minds. But there’s a reason why that’s called “statutory rape”. In your eagerness to argue against Prof. Jay’s feminism, you are slipping dangerously close to defending sexual abuse of children (“they seem more than willing”). Do NOT go there.

    It is entirely possible to argue against Prof. Jay’s bad math without stepping too far over the line into the realm of defending sexual abuse. So far, you are not doing the best job of it.

  255. infowarrior1 says:

    @Robin Munn

    Its the problem of Extremes I think. Always wanting the opposite of your enemy is not always or necessarily Good.

    Trouble is the pedohysteria that often characterized by attraction to teenagers. And the incorrect liberal use of the word pedophile to paint men as evil even though that is the incorrect term:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

    As well as the increased infantilization of such teenagers that is a byproduct of the industrial revoluton:
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200703/trashing-teens?page=2

    In the same way rape accusations are used to demonize men. The problem of the Muslim immigrant sexual abuse however is still reprehensible. They all deserve to be executed for their crimes.

  256. Robin Munn says:

    @infowarrior1 –

    Yes; ephebophilia is a completely different thing than pedophilia, and the reactions to the two should be different. E.g., a 20-year-old man with a 15-year-old girlfriend may be taking advantage of her, or he may have more-or-less honorable intentions (with varying values of “honorable” depending on his upbringing). It mostly depends on the character of the girl: is she mature enough to marry someone and mean it? Or is she one of those spoiled-brat teenagers that modern Western society tends to produce in job lots? Or somewhere in between, needing a father’s guidance to grow up some, but not entirely spoiled rotten? The reaction to those cases should be different; to lump them all under the category of “pedophilia,” and treat that 20-year-old the same as a 37-year-old who seduces a 12-year-old, is a major error. (It’s what is called a “category error” in philosophy). The 37-year-old is certainly acting despicably. The 20-year-old may also be acting despicably, but he may be acting with a certain amount of honor; it depends on many circumstances.

    But though there are some bad reasons why these are lumped together, there’s at least one good reason (or at least a not entirely bad reason), and that’s that the law doesn’t deal well with fuzzy lines. Make a crime out of a fuzzy category (like “sleeping with a woman who is not yet emotionally mature enough”) and you’re just begging for prosecutorial overreach. And so the law draws a bright line of age, and allows for some fuzziness in declaring innocence (e.g., the “Romeo and Juliet” exception to statutory rape law, where a 19-year-old with a 17-year-old girlfriend will probably not be prosecuted). And with that need for bright lines, some crimes get lumped together which really are separate categories, like pedophilia and ephebophilia.

    But we are not arguing cases of law; we’re arguing common sense, and so we should be able to separate those in our minds, and in our arguments. You’re quite right to point that out. I’m pretty sure I wasn’t doing so myself, as I’m quite aware of the distinction, but it’s always good to put that distinction on the table when discussions like this one arise.

  257. Spacetraveller says:

    My mistake for accidentally omitting Robin Munn and James K in my list above.
    Superlative comments, Signori.
    Complimenti.

    Ellie,

    I completely agree with you.
    Interesting how in the Christian world, it is only the Catholic Church which *officially* holds steadfastly onto these rules (and even then, there are many ‘loopholes’, which anyone can use to wriggle out of the rules) and yet, there are clearly many lay-people who may not even be Christian at all, and if they are, are not Catholic but just using common sense, agree with the above principles.

    In the end, it is just common sense, also known as ‘Natural Law’ as you put it.
    But of course, we human beings are too clever for our boots, as they say.
    So we think we know better than God.

    Thank God that God is a merciful One.🙂

    PS: Calvin is of course associated with Geneva and Basel, in Switzerland where I live. I would like to know more about Calvinism – I once did a tour of some Calvinist churches in Zürich, it was very interesting!

  258. Robin Munn says:

    On re-reading my last comment, the last paragraph (which I wrote and edited in a little bit of haste) was unclear. When I said “I’m pretty sure I wasn’t doing so myself,” it could most naturally be read as “I wasn’t separating the two categories.” But what I meant to say was that I’m pretty sure I wasn’t conflating the two categories. What I wrote was the opposite of what I meant, because when I edited the paragraph and re-arranged the sentences, I didn’t pay careful enough attention to what the phrase “doing so” would end up meaning.

    Hence this clarification. Don’t know if anyone misunderstood my meaning or not, but just in case, it’s worth stating explicitly what I really meant.

  259. Opus says:

    My arguments do not improve with repetition and as Robin Munn’s preferred method of sophistry appears to be insult I have no intention of being drawn-in but will observe that in the same way that a thread has reached incoherence when Godwin’s Law is appliable (the argument from Nazis) the same – it will have to be Opus’ second Law – applies when children are used to bolster prejudice (the argument from Paedocrits).

    James K claims to have a copy of Professor Jay’s report. If so may I suggest that he read it thoroughly and in full.

  260. infowarrior1 says:

    @Robin Munn

    And here is another thing that I like to add to the discussion:
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/marriage_age.htm

    Goes to show how influential our culture is in our thinking. And that we must test our assumptions from time to time.

  261. Casey says:

    @ Anonymous Reader re: 10:42 am

    You assume too much, as I am not married.

    I do not stand with the divorce industry, NOR do I stand with marriage……..because quite frankly it is a FAILED institution at this point.

    Chalk me up as one of the soldiers who won’t be slain my Marriage 2.0
    The next societal shift will not be EVOLUTIONARY………it will be REVOLUTIONARY.

    Your points regarding feminism & cougar-dom are well established here on this site by yourself, myself, others & in reality. I don’t dispute them.

    I can get behind statements that the MSM is in the brainwashing business, and that Feminism has permeated nearly every corner of our society; and effectively destroyed same.

    A dance competition in and of itself is not feminist propaganda. However, there are instances in all TV shows when the Feminist sounding board is gonged loud & clear.

    Do you take issue at watching beautiful women dance? I don’t, as the roles of dance & dance partner are very traditional. Man leads, woman follows.

    Is it because Lea Thompson is 53? I don’t take issue with that either, as she has already gotten married & had children.

    It was Lea Thompson herself openly and plainly embraced herself as a ‘cougar’. I found this to be both insulting to her husband, and a stupid message to women in general.

    All TV shows support the feminist movement to a fault, and I will turn off shows that have pissed me off.

    To that end Anonymous, do you watch any TV at all?
    If so, you are equally culpable.

  262. Robin Munn says:

    @Opus –

    If you want to withdraw from the debate, rather than bring new arguments to it, that’s your right. But before you do, please give James K the page number he asked for. Because with your calling my argument “sophistry” — when in fact I’m trying to be very careful about the distinction between where I agree with you (and I do agree with you on some points) and where I don’t — well, let’s just say your current behavior is not doing anything to persuade me that you had a good argument to begin with.

    But I want to tell you that in my previous interactions with you, I’ve generally held you in pretty high regard. Which is why I was very disappointed with your poor reasoning displayed here, and your refusal to do anything but stand on your already-demolished points. You’ve done much better in the past, and I hope you’ll do better in your next argument.

    Also, I do owe you an apology. I stand by my assertion that your claim not to know what “grooming” means in the context of child abuse displays an ignorance on the subject that should disqualify someone from offering an opinion, but I did go too far in calling you a fool. I retract that insult, and I apologize for it. Ignorance is not foolishness (ignorance is curable, while foolishness is not), and I should not have called you the latter. Mea culpa.

  263. James K says:

    @Opus:

    The words “in every town and village across the country” are not to be found anywhere in Professor Jay’s report. They were attributed to her by the Daily Mail.

    On this flimsy foundation you accuse us of being “white knights”, misandrists, racists, and anti-Muslim, and of launching ad hominem attacks against yourself.

    You use the words “they seem more than willing” to describe underage girls who in some cases were driven from town to town to be raped by different strangers. You appear to lack any shred of common decency.

    There are not many anti-racist barristers who would build their case on a Daily Mail story. I doubt you are a barrister at all.

  264. Robin Munn says:

    … And yet again, I wrote a little too hastily and omitted an important point. My first paragraph should have ended with, “And so I’m also starting to wonder whether you’re accurately quoting the report, given that James K has not found the quote you cite. A page number would go far to dispelling my doubts in your accuracy, but your refusal to provide one would gravely increase those doubts.” I got sidetracked by the apology I needed to offer Opus, and never got back around to my original point, which was “Please provide evidence of your quote, rather than demanding that your opponent (who doubts the quote is accurate) find the quote that he believes does not exist. Because such a demand is NOT the way to persuade anyone that you’re quoting accurately, but a proper cite with easily-verified page numbers would dispel any doubt.”

  265. greyghost says:

    infowarrior1

    Considering the presence of the church in the ghetto how are the efforts to restore patriarchy going? Is it succeeding or is it floundering?

    The church is now in on it. Listen to urban black radio for a day. What aggravates the problem is a lot of this is sold as racism. Also complicating things is the liberal politics of maintaining a black voting block. There is a lot to the whole process of making and maintaining a ghetto. Black women can do what ever they want and black men can be arrested for being in public. If he doesn’t like it they will just shoot him. The only men that can tingle the gina in that world are thugs and psychopaths. And those men are the fathers. The women are the most undesirable women in the world. All funded by the CS model of family. (WIC, food stamps, welfare, section 8,bussing, any other help the single mom programs etc. etc.) The violence and suffering is off the charts.

  266. Ellie says:

    Spacetraveller,

    Monergism.com would be a good start. Basically, in a nutshell, calvinism comes down to “God is absolutely sovereign over everything”. That is interesting that you are from Switzerland. It is one beautiful country that I have always wanted to see. Out of curiosity, what is the average sq ft for a house/apt for a family there?

  267. Oscar says:

    First, I’ll note that Luke and bradford have yet to provide a single shred of evidence to support their assertion that my arrival in the US somehow diminished my adopted country simply because I’m one of those icky brown people from south of the border.

    @John Nesteutes says:
    September 17, 2014 at 10:31 pm

    “My experience working in a gritty, post-ndustrial dying city is that lives are radically transformed as people give their lives to Christ”

    Therein lies the greatest problem with “Christian” racial nationalism. Racial nationalists – like Luke and bradford – deny the transforming power of the Gospel.

    Their faith in genetic determinism compels them to believe that dark-skinned people are genetically destined to be criminals and parasites. The Gospel teaches that all people can “be transformed by the renewing of their minds”.

    When the religion of genetic determinism contradicts the Gospel, they place their faith in genetic determinism.

    @Lyn87 says:
    September 17, 2014 at 10:50 pm

    “I certainly did not wish to imply that the Gospel cannot transform lives”

    The problem is not that the Gospel no longer transforms lives. The problem is that most churches in the US no longer preach the Gospel.

  268. Luke says:

    Here you go, Oscar. Your wish is granted:
    From this collection of FBI/Dept. of Justice statistics:

    “Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
    When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.
    Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate…
    The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic.

    Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
    Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.
    Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
    Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.

    Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white.
    Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs. Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely.”

    ==============================================================
    Longer, more subtle, but no less damning essay about what Hispanics are doing to California, right now, written by the college professor that also wrote the famous military history book “Carnage and Culture”:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/255320/two-californias-victor-davis-hanson
    ==============================================================

    Table giving some indication how able various groups are on average to contribute to keeping the U.S. a modern, technologically-advanced civilization (note there is unquestionably a minimum at some level): From Richard Lynn’s book “IQ and the Wealth of Nations”:

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/iq-and-the-wealth-of-nations-richard-lynn-replies-to-ron-unz

    “The table below gives average IQs, calculated from g-factor scores, for seven ethnic groups in the United States. These data are from the NLSY79, for subjects aged 15-23 years, who were tested in 1980. The differences between the European groups are not statistically significant, and show that the typical Irish-American IQ is the same as the white American average.

    Nationality of Origin vs. IQ

    German 102.3

    Irish 101.5

    English 99.7

    French 99.5

    Italian 97.8

    Hispanic 86.3

    Black 82.1”

    Note that this does not even address the also-crucial issue of even comparably-intelligent (e.g., many Asians) still being alien in race, culture, religion, language type, greater propensity to support statist/corrupt government, etc., than America’s founding stock.

    ======================================================

    Traditional ditty about the repeatedly typical observed experience of having illegal aliens in a U.S. border state: (If you think this is good, you and I have nothing else we can talk about on this subject)

    “I come for visit, get treated regal,
    So I stay, who care I illegal?
    I cross border, poor and broke,
    Take bus, see employment folk.
    Nice man treat me good in there.
    Say I need to see welfare.

    Welfare say “You come no more,
    We send cash right to your door.”
    Welfare checks, they make you wealthy,
    Medicaid it keep you healthy!
    By and by, I got plenty money,
    Thanks to you, American dummy.

    Write to friends in motherland,
    Tell them come as fast as you can,
    They come in rags and Chebby trucks,
    I buy big house with welfare bucks.
    They come here, we live together.
    More welfare checks, it gets better!

    Fourteen families they moving in,
    But neighbor’s patience wearing thin.
    Finally, white guy moves away,
    Now I buy his house, and then I say,
    “Find more aliens for house to rent”
    And in the yard I put a tent.

    Send for family quick like bunny,
    Then they too draw the welfare money!
    Everything is mucho good,
    And soon we own the neighborhood.
    We have hobby—-it’s called breeding,
    Welfare pay for baby feeding.

    Kids need dentist? Wife needs pills?
    We get free! We got no bills!
    American crazy! He pay all year,
    To keep welfare running here.
    We think America darn good place!
    Too darn good for the white man race.

    If they no like us, they can go.
    Got lots of room in Mexico!”

  269. Luke says:

    Last for now:
    The World Bank every year commissions a study by an organization called Transparency International. This study is about variation in corruption in different countries around the world.
    The people in the U.S. are ranked 19th best. Mexicans? 106th.

    Now, consider what that means for the culture of the people originating there — and how well they’ll fit into a society that surely doesn’t need any more criminals, cheats, etc.

    http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/

  270. bradford says:

    @Oscar

    Good grief Oscar settle down. I defy you to point to a comment I have ever made on this site that implied your particular presence as a brown person somehow diminished the United States. You need to read who is saying what a bit more carefully. You and I were having a conversation (disagreement) concerning the pros and cons of adoption vs IVF where I voiced some personal reservations about adoption. This somehow sent you into a rant about my supposed belief in my genetic superiority. Then the Nazi/white nationalist/skinhead accusations started being thrown around. Get a grip. I expect better from a professional soldier.

  271. Luke says:

    TFH says:
    September 17, 2014 at 2:48 am

    “Luke has no idea what made America”

    Sure I do. White adult male landowners orginally as the only voters (negligible to no nonwhites or women voting for most of our history), with a people very predominantly English (later other, but still white European) that defeated some nonwhite aborigines in war to create a country.

  272. Spacetraveller says:

    Ellie,

    Thanks! I have started reading the Monergism website.
    In the cities here average apartment size is about 100 sq feet. In the rural areas of course people have much bigger houses on average, easily 200-300 sq feet.
    In general, average family size is roughly just under 2 children each, hence just enough space for 2-3 bedrooms.

  273. Luke says:

    Where is “here”, Spacetraveller?

  274. Spacetraveller says:

    Luke,

    ‘Here’ is Switzerland.

  275. Lyn87 says:

    Spacetraveller,

    How familiar are you with the English measuring system rather than the metric system? The reason I ask is that 100 square feet is far too small to live in (about 3 meters by 3 meters). Even a 300 square foot apartment is tiny – it might be suitable for a small person living alone with VERY few possessions. Are you sure you don’t mean 1000 square feet for an apartment, and 2000-3000 square feet for a house? My house (which is not especially large), is around 2000 square feet, not counting the basement.

    In New York City, for example, newly constructed mini-apartments must be at least 400 square feet.

  276. Anonymous Reader says:

    Casey, thanks for the clarification. All things being equal, I wager that the majority of DWTS viewers are female, do you disagree? And many messages are sent in non-explicity ways on TV and in other video. So frankly I’m not sure what your point is, now. I’m the last person to declare a jihad based on someone else’s video habits, frankly, I just didn’t find it credible that all that many men are viewing DWTS of their own choice, and I’m not fond of the game playing many women deploy to control their men and what they view. You certainly have the advantage of me on the topic of “Dancers on DWTS”, because I don’t know and don’t care to know. The few minutes of video excerpts I’ve seen from time to time suggest the Female Imperative is well served on that show. “Man leads, woman follows” but only to the extent she’s willing to follow….and no more?

    To that end Anonymous, do you watch any TV at all?

    Depends on your terms. I quit viewing prime time, broadcast TV in the previous century. Sometimes I’m in a place, such as an airport or another public place, where the vidiot box is on and it catches my eye. Sometimes I’m in people’s living space where the vidiot box is always on. Does watching old B&W shows in rerun count, to you, as my contribution to social decay? An old “Perry Mason” or “Andy Griffith” at the end of a long day?

    I’ve never seen Modern Family except in advertisements. Never subjected myself to more than a few minutes of Will & Grace. Have read of media campaigns to save network TV shows from being cancelled, and said to myself, “Self, what show is this? Never heard of it”.
    Etc. , etc. , etc.

  277. Spacetraveller says:

    Luke,

    Ah, apologies!

    I left out a zero. Meant 1000 sq. feet, about 90 sq metres!
    (Blush)

  278. Oscar says:

    Luke says:
    September 18, 2014 at 1:25 pm

    “Here you go, Oscar. Your wish is granted:
    From this collection of FBI/Dept. of Justice statistics:

    Longer, more subtle, but no less damning essay about what Hispanics are doing to California, right now, written by the college professor that also wrote the famous military history book “Carnage and Culture”:”

    I’m well aware of DOJ statistics on crime and race. So what? What exactly do any of those statistics have to do with my children or me? What crimes have we committed? Have we depended on handouts from anyone?

    I did not ask for statistics on blacks or Hispanics as a whole. I asked for evidence to support your accusations concerning MY CHILDREN AND ME.

    So far you’ve provided zero. So, where’s the evidence?

  279. Oscar says:

    @Luke

    “Traditional ditty about the repeatedly typical observed experience of having illegal aliens in a U.S. border state: (If you think this is good, you and I have nothing else we can talk about on this subject)”

    Jeeze, you’re dense for someone who claims “genetically superior” intelligence. I already stated that I oppose illegal immigration.

    Once again; what does your ditty have to do with me or my children?

  280. Casey says:

    @ Anonymous

    I don’t disagree with you, the majority of DWTS viewers will be female. However, you cannot deny the fit, tone, trim figures the professional female dancers showcase.

    If a girlfriend, wife, etc. insisted on watching DWTS; I don’t believe that is a cross I’d die upon….as the view is wonderful.

    Now, some stupid Soap Opera…….that’s a wrestle the remote away from her moment.

    My point is, in that moment I mentioned, the show went from being entertainment to some stupid, fucking, feminist ‘girl-power’ “hear me roar” grandstanding. I think you’d agree with that assessment (& more).

    Men & women are different. A crusade of equality is a fools errand from the word go, as we both have strengths and weaknesses. The term equality is redefined to mean ‘sameness’ by those pushing the agenda. How in the hell are men & women going to be the ‘same’?

    I also think you and I would agree that women are bombarded with harmful & destructive messages EVERY….SINGLE…FUCKING….DAY!!!!!

    It sounds like you may have 20 years on me or more (Andy Griffith); so I can imagine the societal shift you’ve witnessed in your lifetime. A great deal of it harmful.

    Hell, I have seen it plain as day in my lifetime of 45 years.

    Women never question where the money came from to fund the feminist movement, or what agenda those people have/had.

    If the (so-called) patriarchy is so oppressive, why did they fund their precious feminist movement? What was in it for the Rockefellers?

    The answer is simple & plain to the readers of this site. They wanted to destroy the family.
    They have succeeded in spades!

  281. Casey says:

    @ Anonymous

    Also, if you have stopped watching MSM television over 15 years ago, then good on you man.

    They don’t call if television ‘programming’ for nothing.

  282. Luke says:

    Sigh. Oscar, are you familiar with the term “central tendencies”?
    When things fall apart far enough, skin along with language/accent will be uniforms designating membership in which tribe.

  283. Oscar says:

    @Luke

    You still haven’t answered the question. What do your statistics have to do with my children or me? What crimes have we committed? What handouts have we taken? What evidence do you have that we have done anything you accuse us of doing? What evidence do you even have that we have accents?

  284. Oscar says:

    @bradford

    “I defy you to point to a comment I have ever made on this site that implied your particular presence as a brown person somehow diminished the United States.”

    Sure. As soon as you point to a comment I have ever made on this site or any other in which I state “see how holy and selfless and unracist I am”.

    I expect more from a former professional Soldier.

  285. Luke says:

    Oscar, I oppose essentially all legal immigration of 3rd-Worlders, or indigs from 3rd-World countries. I would retroactively repeal the 1965 Immigration Act, and all subsequent amnesty laws, including the descendants of same. Letting the descendants stay here gives a statute of limitations on a crime that strikes at the heart of the nature of a nation. After all, in law, crimes such as murder have no SOL, and trying to murder a nation, a type of genocide, is arguably a worse crime than just killing one more homie, crummy construction worker who speaks no 1st-World language, or pajamas boy..

    There is plenty of territory and nations where they already predominate in which to live as they wish, without the burden of Western expectations. Remember when I pointed out that the Western Hemisphere contains 20+ majority non-northern Europeans, and only 2 that are majority N. Europeans? Seems that the latter are the ones in need of active measures for preservation.

    Anyway, as I tried to get across earlier, nonwhite skin will be in most cases a very effective uniform for all groups to decide to which group someone does or should belong. I predict that this will apply until the nation (predictably sadly and previously completely avoidably much shrunken) has reduced numbers of “others” back down to 5% or less, the historical maximum level at which unassimilated minorities commonly cause less trouble than they are of use to the nation. Of course, in great irony, there will likely be an order, a belated affirmative action for those slots in the 5%. STEM-educated North Asians will likely get the most preference among non-1st Worlders, while blacks (with the lowest ratio of utilty vs. problems they cause) logically would be at the end of the line.

  286. Oscar says:

    @Luke

    You’re still avoiding the questions. Here they are again. What do your statistics have to do with my children or me? What crimes have we committed? What handouts have we taken? What evidence do you have that we have done anything you accuse us of doing? What evidence do you even have that we have accents?

    Here’s another one based on this statement of yours. .

    “There is plenty of territory and nations where they already predominate in which to live as they wish, without the burden of Western expectations.”

    Which “Western expectations” have I failed to meet?

    Keep in mind that I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering, an MS in Geological Engineering, a commission to the Army Engineer Corps and successfully commanded American Soldiers in combat thrice, accomplishing every mission I was assigned and bringing all my Soldiers home safely.

    As always; provide evidence (hint: YOU HAVE NONE).

  287. bradford says:

    @Oscar

    You really should start coming up with your own material and quit using mine. It makes you sound passive aggressive and bitchy. Not good for leg infantryman.

  288. Oscar says:

    From Dalrock’s post, “The roots of marriage counseling”.

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2014/09/19/the-roots-of-marriage-counseling

    “Marriage counseling originated in Germany in the 1920s as part of the eugenics movement.[1] The first institutes for marriage counseling in the USA began in the 1930s, partly in response to Germany’s medically directed, racial purification marriage counseling centres.”

    “Racial purification”… once again, proves to have much in common with Margaret Sanger and her fellow Leftists.

  289. Oscar says:

    @bradford

    “You really should start coming up with your own material and quit using mine. It makes you sound passive aggressive and bitchy.”

    So, what you’re saying is that when you see your material reflected back at you, you finally recognize it as “passive aggressive and bitchy.”

    Mission accomplished.

  290. Lyn87 says:

    bradford says:
    September 19, 2014 at 11:23 pm

    @Oscar

    You really should start coming up with your own material and quit using mine. It makes you sound passive aggressive and bitchy. Not good for leg infantryman.

    Oscar,

    You’re clearly on the right track. Some kid called me “bitchy” the other day because I did what you’re doing – asked someone to back up a statement with evidence. Jeez… it’s starting to sound like a junior-high school around here.

  291. Luke says:

    Sigh. Oscar, I’ve said it more than once already. I’ll say it again, here, with nothing else in the paragraph, so that you can’t miss it:
    IN THE NON-PC FUTURE THAT’S COMING, NONWHITE SKIN WILL ROUTINELY SERVE AS A UNIFORM, TO TELL WHICH GROUP SOMEONE BELONGS TO.

    If that’s not your skin or that of anyone in your household (and you don’t live ghetto/barrio, don’t have accented English, don’t still choose to have a surname that’s clearly non-NE, etc.) you could be okay.

    Do sometime choose one time to read what’s at a link over posting yet again. I suggest starting with an online book at http://www.resist.com, the online library, Civil War Two by Thomas Chittum. There are some maps in the middle of the book. The one that’s of the whole U.S. is the one you want. The book predicts 4 zones to post-2040 America. The requirements to reside in each zone will NOT be all the same…

  292. Oscar says:

    @Luke

    I did not ask about your Turner Diaries fantasies.

    I asked questions based on this statement of yours:

    “Re the bringing 5 African kids here, doing your part to make your neighborhood predominantly nonwhite: did you think to ask your neighbors first, if they thought that was a good idea, something they’d be happy about? Why would they not get input into bringing people into the area in which they already live (were there first) whose friends are likely to one day include gangbangers, or at least friends/relatives of gangbangers?”

    What evidence do you have that any of us are or ever have been gangbangers, or befriended gangbangers or are related to gangbangers? What do your statistics have to do with my children or me? What crimes have we committed? What handouts have we taken? What evidence do you have that we have done anything you accuse us of doing? What evidence do you even have that we have accents?

    I also asked another question based on this statement of yours:

    “There is plenty of territory and nations where they already predominate in which to live as they wish, without the burden of Western expectations.”

    Once again: which “Western expectations” have I failed to meet?

    Where’s your EVIDENCE?

    Again, NOT your Turner Diaries wet dreams. Your EVIDENCE. Do you understand the difference between the two?

  293. Luke says:

    Oscar of the 3 mouths and 0.1 ears, here’s a Western expectation your family likely will not meet:

    From this chart I posted previously:
    “Nationality of Origin vs. IQ
    German 102.3
    Irish 101.5
    English 99.7
    French 99.5
    Italian 97.8
    Hispanic 86.3
    Black 82.1″

    Given that genes easily determine half of IQ, and the people in an UMC neighborhood kind of expect purely 3-digit IQ types (with longer time horizons and thus better behavior to match), your bringing in 5 fresh off the boat black African youths kind of flies in the face of that.

    Related:
    http://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/6419-what-is-it-like-to-teach-black-students-by-christopher-jackson/

  294. Robin Munn says:

    @Luke –

    Related:

    http://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/6419-what-is-it-like-to-teach-black-students-by-christopher-jackson/

    Take that link, combine it with reading the experiences of teachers in Africa (who also face problems, but an entirely different set of problems), and the “it’s culture, not genes” argument is a slam-dunk. You won’t think that, of course, but that’s because of your ideological blinders.

    But I should really take the advice of John Flansburgh and John Linnell and say “This is where the party ends…”

  295. Luke says:

    Robin, here’s your “culture” evidence from the article:

    “How did my experiences make me feel about blacks? Ultimately, I lost sympathy for them. In so many ways they seem to make their own beds. There they were in an integrationist’s fantasy in the same classroom with white students, eating the same lunch, using the same bathrooms, listening to the same teachers and yet the blacks fail while the whites pass.”

    Same academic cultural setting with the same teachers, same books, same school location, different results. Hm. If it’s not nurture, that leaves — gasp!— nature.

  296. Lyn87 says:

    Culture is both micro and macro. The smallest unit of culture is the family – and arguably the single most important echelon in the hierarchies of culture we all inhabit. I was fortunate in that although I grew up in the “Free Love” 70’s and “Me Generation” 80’s (bad culture for sexual morality), my family was very counter-cultural (Christian). Two students from different families sitting in the same classroom listening to the same teacher share the same local culture to a large degree, but may have radically different family cultures. And the family culture impacts how the child experiences the larger common culture as well. Just because a city has “high culture” or “wholesome culture” open to all doesn’t mean everyone will avail themselves of those opportunities. If one kid’s family demonstrates long time horizons and takes him to museums and Boy Scout meetings, while the other kid’s parents are flibbertigibbets who let him run wild with the neighborhood hoodlums, the fact that the two kids live in close proximity to each other means little in terms of probable outcomes.

    This is like the “wage gap” myth that just won’t die. It’s easy for feminists to compare male wages to female wages and blame “Teh eeevil Patriarchy,” but the truth is found in the individual choices of millions of men and women. Likewise… statistically, certain ethnic/demographic groups have more problems than others and it’s easy to blame inferior DNA, but it’s like the “wage gap” – once you tease out the cultural factors, the difference that is attributable to genetics shrinks to a rounding error.

  297. Oscar says:

    @Luke

    “Oscar of the 3 mouths and 0.1 ears, here’s a Western expectation your family likely will not meet:”

    Again, not what I asked. Are you just not intelligent enough to understand what I’ve been asking?

    I’m a Latin American immigrant. My Latin American immigrant parents raised three kids – all with university educations. Two with advanced degrees. One with both undergrad and graduate degrees in engineering.

    That would be me.

    Again, I ask: what Western expectations have I failed to meet?

    Also, you continue to avoid the other questions I asked.

    What evidence do you have that any of us are or ever have been gangbangers, or befriended gangbangers or are related to gangbangers? What do your statistics have to do with my children or me? What crimes have we committed? What handouts have we taken? What evidence do you have that we have done anything you accuse us of doing? What evidence do you even have that we have accents?

  298. Oscar says:

    @TFH

    “You will never get through to Luke.”

    It’s instructive to others when one person makes assertions, then proves 100% incapable of supporting them with evidence.

  299. Jeffrey K Lacy says:

    Women over 50 and pregg look great

Please see the comment policy linked from the top menu.

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s