Started with a bang, ended with a whimper

In This won’t end well I explained the seeming contradiction between Hanna Rosin’s assertion that women chose the hookup culture because they found it empowering, and Leslie Bell’s observation that women wanted something more.

What neither author noticed is that young women are comfortable with hookups because they assume that LTRs and ultimately marriage will be theirs for the taking once they tire of hookups.  Flings/hookups are fun, and even (feel) empowering when a woman is young and in the SMP power position;  each new encounter is further proof that she holds the veto power over men.  However, when the men are the ones doing the vetoing empowerment turns into a never ending round of rejection.  Instead of having men pursue her she finds herself being passed around, if not passed over.

With the media feeding frenzy on the Yale Daily News article about SWUGs, it is interesting to note that one of the women Rosin interviewed for Boys on the side was a Yale coed:

One sorority girl, a junior with a beautiful tan, long dark hair, and a great figure, whom I’ll call Tali, told me that freshman year she, like many of her peers, was high on her first taste of the hookup culture and didn’t want a boyfriend. “It was empowering, to have that kind of control,” she recalls. “Guys were texting and calling me all the time, and I was turning them down. I really enjoyed it! I had these options to hook up if I wanted them, and no one would judge me for it.”

Rosin starts to point out that some time along the way “Tali” had started wanting something more.  Tali now wished a man would ask her out on a $3 frozen yogurt date.  However, Rosin then quickly closes the door on any yearning for something other than hookup culture, explaining that women really are empowered by it.

This question, each time, prompted a look of horror. Reform the culture, maybe, teach women to “advocate for themselves”—a phrase I heard many times—but end it? Never.

But there is more to the story.  It turns out that “Tali” is Raisa Bruner, the author of the SWUGNATION article which the media is going nuts over:

That’s me — Tali.

The previous year, Rosin, a friend and I plopped down on a patch of grass in the Law School’s courtyard to make sense of what was going on at Yale with women, relationships and sex. That conversation become fodder for Rosin’s trend piece.

Clearly Rosin was overly eager to close the door on the dissatisfaction which sets in with hookups once a woman stops being the hottest, youngest thing on the menu.  Yale’s microcosm is highly unusual given how quickly the transformation from hot young and empowered to washed up and passed over occurs, but the basic pattern is what occurs over a longer time period in the larger sexual marketplace.

Bruner does her best throughout her article to convince herself and her readers that she is empowered by the hookup culture just as Rosin argued.  She desperately wants to redefine the term SWUG to mean women who are freed from caring about attention from men.

And a SWUG — a female Yalie defined by a “don’t-give-a-fuck” or “DGAF” attitude — should be the modern young feminist ideal.

But for SWUGs like Chloe and I, that’s not quite how it pans out. Whatever empowerment we’re supposed to be deriving from this version of the feminist moment is looking pretty thin on the ground.

She vacillates on this throughout the piece, finally ending with an unconvincing but obligatory nod to feminist empowerment:

We are not any old SWUGs, I decide as I carry empty wine glasses to the sink. And we do want it all — equality and individuality, power and humor. If we label ourselves, it’s only because the language has yet to catch up. As the generations of women before us did, we’ll make sure it does.

She notes that the term SWUG started at Yale as the kind of empowering term she wishes to “reclaim” it to.  But the problem with attempts to manipulate language is reality has a way of overpowering the whitewash:

Maybe it was that way once. But right now, SWUG’s social meaning at Yale remains about the hooking up that we women are — and aren’t — doing, and how little we’re supposed to let that bother us.

This entry was posted in Aging Feminists, Choice Addiction, Death of courtship, Denial, Hanna Rosin. Bookmark the permalink.

362 Responses to Started with a bang, ended with a whimper

  1. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    I propose that a renaissance in the Great Books and Classics is needed so as to re-instill a more traditional Code of Honor which will enrich the lives of men, women, and children, and liberate us all from the debt-financed debauchery, deconstruction, and debasement.

    All men should begin immediately by reading the following books which the central bankers and their fellow churchians hate, fear, and detest:

    0. THE BIBLE
    1. Homer’s Iliad
    2. Homer’s Odyssey
    3. Exodus & Ecclesiastes & The Psalms
    4. Virgil’s Aeneid
    5. Socrates’ Apology
    6. The Book of Matthew & Jefferson’s Bible
    7. Plato’s Repulic
    8. Seneca’s Letters from a Stoic
    9. Aristotle’s Poetics
    10. Dante’s Inferno
    11. The Declaration of Independence
    12. The Constitution
    13. John Milton’s Paradise Lost
    14. Shakespeare’s Hamlet
    15. Newton’s Principia
    16. Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations and Theory of Moral Sentiments
    17. Henry David Thoreau’s Walden
    18. Mark Twain’s Huckleberry Finn (& all of his work)
    19. Shakespeare’s Hamlet
    20. Ludwig von Mises’ A Theory of Money and Credit
    21. F.A. Hayek’s The Road to Serfdom
    22. Herman Melville’s Moby Dick
    23. Einstein’s The Meaning of Relativity
    24. Joseph Campbell’s The Hero With a Thousand Faces and The Power of Myth
    25. Ron Paul’s Revolution & End the Fed
    26. THE BIBLE

    And as men are reading the Great Books for Men, they must start enacting their principles in the living world, so as to exalt our legal system and universities, for it is not enough to thnk and read, but virtue is ultimately defined by *action*.

  2. Frank says:

    I’ve been meaning to ask, but is that Raisa Bruner on the cover? She is one fugly chick in my view (too much of a mannish face). Doesn’t even rate a 6.

    I really have trouble believing she would garner that much attention from men, even as a freshman. Maybe she’s just considered pretty by Yale standards (I did read that they have some of the lowest scores in terms of hot looking women, along with Harvard.)

  3. JironGhrad says:

    Clearly, she is having trouble understanding that you can’t have both “equality” and the power at the same time.

  4. earl says:

    “Tali now wished a man would ask her out on a $3 frozen yogurt date. However, Rosin then quickly closes the door on any yearning for something other than hookup culture, explaining that women really are empowered by it.”

    Women say they want something good…but they only act on the bad. Is it any wonder men would rather just pump and dump them or say FU to women’s marital dreams.

  5. saint of killers says:

    …as long as these SWUGs are still open to anal…i’ll deign to fuck them…

  6. Dalrock says:

    @Frank

    I’ve been meaning to ask, but is that Raisa Bruner on the cover?

    It certainly appears to be her. Here is another picture of her I found for reference.

  7. L'addition says:

    @Dalrock
    they are dated a few years apart, cruel years by the look of it.

  8. It’s been interesting to see this whimper stretch out and how each of the different medias are taking it up, challenging, or ignoring it.

    As one of the articles I read on it said, college does seem to be a good model of life on a ‘fast forward’ setting. Women’s freedom and power the first half, men gaining value and power the second. Exceptions all around for the exceptionally feminine or masculine. The sad part is that while women will recover some of the value that made the SWUG swap visible – able to go out clubbing, dance on tables, and get male attention – they still don’t get all of their value back and never will.

    Additionally, as this Princeton mother notes, there will never be a better case of being able to shoot fish in a barrel to land a husband. The girl that waits past sophmore year to realize this is not giving her enough time for marriage before graduation, or directly after, at which point the males value begins it’s flight while he also has additional distractions that will lead him to say no because she’ll ruin the career he just got handed or he’ll find a woman he likes more.

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/04/princeton-mom-detonates-feminist-advice-bomb/

  9. Farm Boy says:

    She looks like one of those “do-gooder” types. The kind whose mission is to feel that they are doing good, rather than actually doing any good.

  10. Frank says:

    It certainly appears to be her. Here is another picture of her I found for reference.

    You have got to be kidding me. LOL

  11. Retrenched says:

    “Tali now wished a man would ask her out on a $3 frozen yogurt date.”

    Funny how that works. Women like Tali give it up for free almost immediately, then wonder why men don’t want to invest in them or take things slow.

  12. INTJ says:

    Wow. She’s attractive in the picture where she helps starving kids in Africa. The new SWUG picture, well I’d rather fuck a fattie. If that is her, then “washed up” is an understatement.

  13. vascularity777 says:

    Thus far I have been encouraging my 13-year-old son to go on to college and earn at least a bachelors degree for two purposes:
    1. To be more competitive in the career market.
    2. To meet educated women in college so he will marry better.
    To my surprise I am now considering backpedaling by encouraging my son to not attend college. The culture is really much worse than I knew. I do not want my son to wind up with a slut in disguise (wolf in sheep’s clothing). Our culture’s values just continue to erode and erode.

  14. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    Dear Retrenched–yes!

    “Tali now wished a man would ask her out on a $3 frozen yogurt date.”

    when modern bernankified women hit thirty, they invariably ask two questions:

    1. where have all the good men gone lzozooz?
    2. why is my butt sore lzozoz?

    this inspired both the heartiste cartoon (NSFW):
    http://heartiste.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/2.jpg?w=771&h=584 (NSFW!)

    and the thong in the upper right:
    http://www.cafepress.com/greatbooksformen

    zlzozoozozozozozozozoz

  15. Frank says:

    vascularity777: I hear a lot that trades are the best option, especially if we face the real possibility that the government will soon collapse. Better to have skills to help you survive than a degree in English.

  16. vascularity777 says:

    Rather than spend $3.00 on Tali, I would much prefer to save my three bucks and sit by myself and read a good book. Also, save myself from a possible disease as well..

  17. earl says:

    Is it just me or could you see an invisible noose around the head of the chick on the cover of that book?

    Those SWUGs are after all…dead inside.

  18. Vas – if your son has any, ANY interest in a trade he can likely make better money than if he goes to school. There’s a lot of high end trades that will always have work because Americans currently see them as beneath them or simply too hard. He would also get to interact with the world more on his own terms and less at the whims of corporate culture, as well as having skills he could go abroad with and stand out from the rest of Americans if needed.

    Only downside is not finding women in the trades. But being more attractive to the ones he does

  19. vascularity777 says:

    Frank: He likes computers. Perhaps I can get him to learn to reformat the hard drives and go from there. Perhaps Real Estate would be an option as well.

  20. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    you know, i totally wonder how these yalie women would analyze the famous poem “alpha f%*%s & beta bucks.”

    slumlord writes, ” and I too, thought of GBFM who posted this poem over at Roissy’s the other day:
    (btw, I think the poem is hauntingly tragic, seriously.)

    “da professional womenz ode”

    alpha fucks and beta bucks
    dat is how we roll
    da butthexting cockass we fucks and sucks
    and in our anuthes it doth deosul
    alpha fucks and beta bucks
    it is da way of da fed
    to transfer assetss to dose who butthext
    cuckold dose who pay for our bread
    beta bucks and alpha fucks
    it’s what day teach us we;’re entitled too
    da assetts from betas we plucks
    after da alphas desol us through our hole for poo
    lzozozlzzolzlzlzlz
    cuckold da betas cockhold da alphas
    datsz what day taught us in mba grad school
    as da feiisnsits see no truth nor justice in their laws
    and say da great books for menz was all fools.
    yes, yes, i did very good on my gmats
    dey bernenakifed my soul away, left me with cats

    zlzlzzozozozo

    Burned out from the meatgrinder =”desouled””

    lzozozozoz

  21. Vas – computer engineers are dime a dozen. Plus younger generations are getting better at knowing how to do their own computer work while companies make it easier to do so. Both ends of the market are crowding out the labor demand.

    If he likes computers, try and find a local class or demonstrations on electricity. It’s a power that can be fun for boys to have control over (I know I enjoyed it, though didn’t pursue it). It also can get him anything from starting his own handiman business to working at a high end company in any area that designs electric gadgets.

  22. @ GBFM
    Thanks for posting the reading list. I see a couple on their that I don’t think are on my own. Mostly the science related ones, which interest me less but will probably be good for me anyways.

  23. Frank says:

    Frank: He likes computers. Perhaps I can get him to learn to reformat the hard drives and go from there. Perhaps Real Estate would be an option as well.

    Software or hardware engineering, although in these respects I think certification is better and produces more viable skills. The problem, at least the last time I’ve checked is that despite whatever skills you acquire companies still want college degrees as a start. I blame human resources (which coincidentally enough tend to be staffed by a predominance of women) for this stupidity, One of the snarky gags I’ve hard recently regarding the issues here is how one startup wanted a coder with 10 years experience to work on hardware that’s only been out for 10 months. Heh. Probably not that much of an exaggeration either.

  24. gdgm+ says:

    I think I’ve mentioned this writer in a past Dalrock thread, but I then didn’t realize her book is getting USA press coverage as being different from Hanna Rosin’s view:

    Donna Freitas: As a culture, have we reached ‘The End of Sex’?

  25. Retrenched says:

    Another example of how women vary the price depending on how “alpha” the man in question is…

    http://www.returnofkings.com/9115/why-money-can-no-longer-save-the-beta-male-2

  26. Dalrock says:

    Here are some additional pics of the Bruner as a senior in high school (from her old blog):
    Pic 1
    Pic 2

    And for reference, here is the cover pic.

  27. Bob Wallace says:

    I have pointed out many times that sluts end up as spinsters.
    I have also pointed out there are no “Alphas.” They are cads and they end up as the male version of spinsters. I have seen this without fail – unless the person changes. And they have to do it when young.

  28. sunshinemary says:

    Hard living is apparently hard on a woman’s looks. Yikes.

  29. Looks like she’s turned to Africa to get her jig on…

    The young bucks will show her a good time!

  30. Rob P says:

    This happens even at state schools. I attended our local state university, 36,000 undergrads plus grads and faculty, in the late 90’s and remember the latest crop of hot young things arriving in our dorm. My (now) wife was part of that group and we paired off and quickly became amused observers of the antics that followed over the next few years.

    Her friends, people we still have contact with today, were heavily influenced by the aunt of one of these young ladies. This aunt happened to be the dean of the university’s honors program, and she worked hard to personally indoctrinate this girl and her social group in the dorm. Don’t trust men, men are evil, screw them but don’t ever talk to them again, focus on building a career. This message, plus the indoctrination that each woman received during her required humanities and social science courses, led most of these young women to treat the men who approached them with an eye to dating and long term relationships with utter contempt.

    What had me laughing, even then and fully blue pill at the time, was how our female friends by senior year were so shocked when they stopped being sought after by men and simply became fodder for one night stands. The niece of the dean dumped her long term boyfriend from home after a year of school, which was good for him because she’d slept around the whole time anyway. By sophomore year she was chasing this or that random guy, landing him, then immediately dumping him for the next guy. Junior year she “dated” my frat guy roommate for two months, which meant he screwed her, didn’t call, screwed her again after a month of her begging for his attention, repeat once more and then never called her again.

    To her this was a “serious relationship with her soul mate.” To him this was a weird desperate chick he screwed 3 times. Today she’s 35 and still putting posts on facebook about how she can’t find the right guy. By senior year back then all she talked about with me was how guys didn’t even ask her name any more, they just saw her in a club, walked up to her and pulled out condoms to show what they wanted. Even more shocking, she usually went home with them anyway, just to complain the next day about how “guys just aren’t serious.”

    Her friends from the dorm that her aunt worked to “educate” only did marginally better, though a few are married now at 35. But I remember one of them being hit up by a random guy in a van senior year, a middle aged man in who wanted her to come back to his “crash pad” and she went with him because she hadn’t been hit on in so long. The next day when she came home she was excoriated by the group because, you know, men can’t be trusted. Recently I meet her husband, who stays home with the kids while she pursues her all important medical career, and I can’t look him in the eye knowing her history. My wife and I still laugh when we remember how odd people thought we were to meet, date, get to know each other and then decide to spend our lives together, but I think we got the best deal out of anybody there.

  31. Hopefully they didn’t go all Hutu on her arse?!

  32. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    Thanks Leap of Beta!

    “Leap of a Beta says:
    April 12, 2013 at 12:38 pm
    @ GBFM
    Thanks for posting the reading list. I see a couple on their that I don’t think are on my own. Mostly the science related ones, which interest me less but will probably be good for me anyways.”

    Many churchians have attacked the list, including one who attacked it for not including Paradise Lost, even though the list includes Paradise Lost.

    The seething h8 that chruchians harbor because their women have been bernnkified is most always misdirected at their fellow brothers, instead of at those who bernnkified their womenz.

    zlzoolzozz

  33. Dalrock says:

    Sunshine Mary, I added your new blog to the blogroll (your post on the cowardly pastor is astounding). If I didn’t know better, I would suspect that SW ticked you off enough when she went after you so personally because you are a “submissive Christian wife” that you decided to come back. Whatever the reason, I’m glad you did.

  34. A says:

    > Vas – computer engineers are dime a dozen. Plus younger generations are getting better at knowing how to do their own computer work while companies make it easier to do so. Both ends of the market are crowding out the labor demand.

    Are you really using the term “computer engineer” in the standard fashion here? A computer engineer doesn’t go around helping people use a computer; that’s an IT technician. The engineer wrangles stuff like MESI cache coherence, x64 opcodes and B-tree indexes. If more people use computers for more things, this means more work for the engineer. Those easy-to-use devices and programs don’t fall from the sky. (That’s not to say all is rosy in engineer world; the major threats to are H1Bs are outsourcing.)

  35. @ GBFM
    That’s retarded of them. How do you expect to get a good idea of what men, real men, look like without a classical reading, as well as philosophy through the ages? To see how men can be both civilized and barbaric before Christianity, but what Christianity has brought to the world of men. To see how it’s distorted and changed over time. Just as knowing history shows the value Christianity has brought to nation building, these pieces of literature show how Christianity has brought value to building minds, culture, and most importantly – the men of these cultures.

    Oh wait, because Churchianity forbids such distortions from being known. Or at least guarantees it’s for the better. An adaptation of the church to current issues. Certainly not a warping of the church to the world instead of remaining apart from the world within God’s Word.

    I will say I’m surprised you only list Dante’s Inferno instead of the whole Divine Comedy. A mistake or a choice?

  36. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    Yes Leap of Beta,

    The entire Divine Comedy is great. Hopefully after watching the first “Star Wars,” folks will watch the rest.🙂

    Yes, a funny thing about churchians is that as the church is being destroyed, they spend far more time lashing out at the Great Books and Classics (which include the Bible) then they do at directing their anger at those who are destroying their culture and bernankifying women.

    Another churchian accused me of being “Satan” for quoting the KJV Bible, while also giving buttcockersz a free pass. Yet another churchian labeled the Holy Gospels as “Noise.”

    It is quite remarkable and telling. No wonder their women have been bernankified and their families destroyed, as rather than doing anything about it the churchians prefer masturbatory endeavors and attacking their supposed brothers, accusing them of being Satan for quoting the Gospels, while giving the buttcockerz a free pass.

    zlzoozozozozzo

  37. Ton says:

    I was reading to my niece today. No book list is complete without a wocket in your pocket. I am more interested in reading to 3 years then the problems of college girls.

  38. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    Dear Leap of Beta,

    Also, there is quite a lot of barbarism in the Bible, just as there s a lot of honor, nobility,and civility in Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey.

    When Odysseus returns, he slays all those fornicating in his house, and has his son Telemchus hang all the slutty womenz:

    Homer’s Odyssey:
    “Ulysses; in the meantime he called Telemachus, the stockman, and the
    swineherd. “Begin,” said he, “to remove the dead, and make the women
    help you. Then, get sponges and clean water to swill down the tables
    and seats. When you have thoroughly cleansed the whole cloisters,
    take the women into the space between the domed room and the wall
    of the outer court, and run them through with your swords till they
    are quite dead, and have forgotten all about love and the way in which
    they used to lie in secret with the suitors.”

    On this the women came down in a body, weeping and wailing bitterly.
    First they carried the dead bodies out, and propped them up against
    one another in the gatehouse. Ulysses ordered them about and made
    them do their work quickly, so they had to carry the bodies out. When
    they had done this, they cleaned all the tables and seats with sponges
    and water, while Telemachus and the two others shovelled up the blood
    and dirt from the ground, and the women carried it all away and put
    it out of doors. Then when they had made the whole place quite clean
    and orderly, they took the women out and hemmed them in the narrow
    space between the wall of the domed room and that of the yard, so
    that they could not get away: and Telemachus said to the other two,
    “I shall not let these women die a clean death, for they were insolent
    to me and my mother, and used to sleep with the suitors.”

    So saying he made a ship’s cable fast to one of the bearing-posts
    that supported the roof of the domed room, and secured it all around
    the building, at a good height, lest any of the women’s feet should
    touch the ground; and as thrushes or doves beat against a net that
    has been set for them in a thicket just as they were getting to their
    nest, and a terrible fate awaits them, even so did the women have
    to put their heads in nooses one after the other and die most miserably.
    Their feet moved convulsively for a while, but not for very long.”

  39. donalgraeme says:

    My feelings of outright contempt for such women cannot last due to the genuine pity I feel for them. They are ruined, broken. They have destroyed any chance of living a happy, content life; or at least, a happily married one. The only value that women such as Bruner offer to society now is as an example to young women growing up of what fate awaits them if they ride the carousel.

  40. Opus says:

    This afternoon I attended a Political Rally, not that I have any political allegiance but I had been invited and it gave me the opportunity to view one of the Party Leaders in action – we are near to Local Election. I soon became aware of a young woman, probably mid-twenties, reasonably tall, though shoes were adding to her height, her hair high-lighted blonder and perfectly combed too and her face perfectly made up. To me, this oozed class and so I moved closer. It then became clear that she was from the BBC. Certainly there are better looking women on the Council Estates, but as I said she was advertising that she was way above their standard. I was wondering therefore how I could demonstrate to her my high mate-value. That she might have a husband or boyfriend just did not occur to me. This was a young woman worth having – at least on a showery Friday afternoon. She turned her head in my direction and for a second our gazes met. She then went off to talk to the leader who had now finished his speech as to how awful his opponents were and I forgot about her as I was approached by one of the male candidates whom I knew.

    I was thus contrasting my romantic optical second, with the story above. Were I to discover that the BBC girl was just another Carousel Rider, or even ex-Carousel Rider this would be the equivalent of putting bromide in my tea.

    Oddly enough I live next door to a Tali. Whether the fictional Tali is telling the truth, I wonder, for (as you can see from her blog) she seems to be hot for BBC – under the guise of helping the Negro – and (with the greatest respect) my experience is that when young ex-college women do that, no matter their high and mighty talk of ‘vocation’ they have in fact only one thing really on their mind – presumably because they cannot get it back in New England.

  41. BlueDog says:

    GBFM,
    I like your list. I think some could be added to it that would serve to round it out in important ways. I think **Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations and Theory of Moral Sentiments** is key though I would add that it is usually seconds after a libertarian has started talking, let alone before I’ve actually engaged him in discussion, that it is clear to me that for all his adulation of capitalism he has not read these works … I also am especially fond of Ecclesiastes and I think if there are two books in the entire Bible that anyone should read, it is Ecclesiastes and Proverbs, and then after that maybe the Gospel of Luke … and that’s actually good enough because if you ask people to read the whole Bible, frankly most won’t, but if 90% of people read 2 of 3 of those books, society would be 1500% better. The first 100 pages of Victor Frankl’s “Man’s Search for Meaning” would be a potent addition. And I’d have to add too the Federalist Papers, as long as we are on the long list.

    Lastly every right-leaning thinker who has read The Road to Serfdom seems to need to be required by a schoolmaster to pay acute attention and thought to where Hayek makes clear the numerous reasons why unrestricted laissez-faire is unworkable, until then we have unending circle-jerk. To close the circle though I think that a whole segment of the must-read books must, must, must must must include a heavy dose of the works of Ordoliberalism. Until we get much, much more ordoliberalism into the collective thinking and public debate conduit, we will get no where other than maybe schism, secession and the long-predicted “enjoy the collapse” that the bipolar Capitalism/Socialism false dichotomy has indoctrinated damn near everyone with.

    But in closing there’s a bigger point I wish to make: it isn’t just men who should read these. It’s maybe, ESPECIALLY not just mean who should read these, and many other things. Mind and muscle – or nerve cells and muscle cells – are biologically remarkably similar, so it’s no surprise that rules governing muscle growth tend to hold true in generalization for the mind too, and vice versa.

    Muscles WILL NOT grow, unless pushed. You can feed them vitamins and minerals, fish oil and creatine and oodles and oodles of paleo-diet protein, but they won’t grow, unless you … basically use brute force to blow them up, by hitting iron, hard.

    The brain and the mind is just such a place. The atrophied mind that gives you Swugnation/”FRESHMAN FOR A DAY” is just a balloon that never got blown up.

    Cavemen didn’t grow their minds. Pyramid builders didn’t grow their minds. Children, boys and girls, will not grow their minds … unless adults push, push, push the hard wrought iron that are these works, and force those minds to grow.

    Till then, talking to Raisa (or Tali?) will be like yelling at the Pacific beach in Cali so your erstwhile friend in Taiwan can hear you. Maybe … key is “maybe”, in 30 years her tattered boat may come drifting into Long Beach, but until then, she just can’t hear you.

  42. Martian Bachelor says:

    vascularity777, I hope you continue to be skeptical of the hype being launched to try and sell college/university to young men. About the only thing they’ve got to lure the HS boys in is the prospect of TnA, so that’s what they’re deploying.

    Equality of numbers was achieved in ~1980, but they’ve continued on in the same feminizing direction for three too many more decades. Now that it’s 60/40 or more women, rather than make any substantive course adjustment, they’re just going to try and hype the places to men as being where the hook-up culture makes it easy for any guy to get effortlessly laid every weekend, where the girls of Prince Town are desperate for dates and smart nice-guy hubbies, and the Yale girls are so busy they’re washed up burned out sluts by graduation.

    Don’t believe any of it. It’s just marketing. They don’t intend to actually do anything to the make these place a less hostile (much less a non-hostile) environment for men. There are only a handful of genuinely guy-friendly colleges, and at all the other places s guy’s best hope now is to try and hide out in the business, STEM, or sports enclaves (depending on proclivities) to as great an extent as possible, even as all are under feminist attack.

  43. george says:

    Couldn’t help but notice that the girls in the article were grooving on wasn’t sex but the power to act out negatively with out consequence; “…Guys were texting and calling me all the time, and I was turning them down…and no one would judge me for it.” Being able to reject, and perhaps look down their noses at those who are rejected is what motivates them. Sex was just the price they paid for being able to extend the mean girl culture to the opposite sex.

  44. dannyfrom504 says:

    “If we label ourselves, it’s only because the language has yet to catch up.”

    classic hamster. now that shame is asscoiated with the moniker, she has to “change” it. choices have consequences.

  45. INTJ says:

    Yeah she has definitely gotten worse looking with time: http://tyglobalist.org/61-2/staff/attachment/raisa-2/

  46. Shameful says:

    Color me endlessly amused. Wow, decisions have consequences, guess that is a hard lesson even after Yale. But rememeber these ladies will leave the college bubble, have a new lease on life being comparatively young and attractive…and then piss it away again. How could anyone have pity? Well pity for the women not the poor unaware men who they will eventually shatter with their unhappyness and memories of the carousel gone by.

  47. Shameful says:

    A thought just struck me, how would a strong young yale woman handle someone filming her escapades with google glasses? If all sins are know to the public will men still be able to white knoght them after litterally watching them at their most degenerate? Put a ring on it when her notch count is in tripple digits?

  48. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    “Shameful says:
    April 12, 2013 at 3:58 pm
    A thought just struck me, how would a strong young yale woman handle someone filming her escapades with google glasses? If all sins are know to the public will men still be able to white knoght them after litterally watching them at their most degenerate? Put a ring on it when her notch count is in tripple digits?”

    Yes. Churchian men and many pastors witness the women towing bastard children into church, and they pretend not to see the massive amounts of fornication, butthext, and adulterous blasphemies. And then, they use all the women’s severe transgressions to pass judgment on all the good betas, saying, “man up and marry these heroic single mom sluts!”

    If the churchian pastors saw the actual butthext on film, they would again use it to legislate against good men, and chastise men for not better protecting the buttholez, as they blame the fall of Eve on Adam.

    Know this–the churchian pastors love butthext so very much that they will refuse to see anything that stands in the way.

    zlozozozozooz

  49. dragnet says:

    The guys here are being ridiculous—her looks haven’t deteriorated all the much from age 17 to 22. She was a ~6.5 then and that’s what she is now.

    Would bang.

  50. anonymous says:

    The guys here are being ridiculous—her looks haven’t deteriorated all the much from age 17 to 22.

    No… she’s lost her bloom of health. If it isn’t promiscuity, it’s drugs or vegetarianism or something similar. But she does NOT look good at all. She doesn’t look “old” — she looks as though she’s got something **wrong** with her, in the oldest pic.

  51. donalgraeme says:

    @ Anon

    The word you are looking for is broken. There is something broken about her, and it most likely can never be fixed.

  52. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    “dragnet says:
    April 12, 2013 at 4:34 pm
    The guys here are being ridiculous—her looks haven’t deteriorated all the much from age 17 to 22. She was a ~6.5 then and that’s what she is now.

    Would bang.”

    like a good, good churchian sevring da churchian butethxtual christ lzozllzoz.🙂

  53. vascularity777 says:

    Martian: I appreciate what you are saying. There is merit to your point. But nonetheless, having at least a four-year degree in “anything” will open doors to jobs that would otherwise not be open. I want my son to have options. I am more concerned with the cultural crap that the university crowd espouses. My son is too young to aim him in any professional direction yet. I like the idea of him learning about computers and not just playing the @#@#ing games.

    As we here all know, at the universities the peer group and the professors are predominately “liberal” to the max; without the type of values that we espouse here. On the news I occasionally hear about some of the extreme antics professors play in their classrooms. Perhaps that is an arena that Christians can make a stand at. For example if a professor requires his students to stand on a piece of paper that reads, “Jesus” we as parents and members of society can fight back with legal action and demand that professor be fired. Somehow we need to get organized in a peaceful manner to fight back against our cultures decline.

    If folks do not want to be Christians, then fine. They have a right to not be Christian. But we as people of faith have a right to require “professionals” to respect our faith and not trash our values in front of our college kids or younger kids. How can we begin this peaceful fighting back??? Does anybody have any ideas? This blog is a useful mechanism to educate, but we need to take appropriate action steps. I do not know how to proceed????

  54. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    Yes vascukarity777,

    “If folks do not want to be Christians, then fine. They have a right to not be Christian. But we as people of faith have a right to require “professionals” to respect our faith and not trash our values in front of our college kids or younger kids. How can we begin this peaceful fighting back??? Does anybody have any ideas? This blog is a useful mechanism to educate, but we need to take appropriate action steps. I do not know how to proceed????”

    We could begin by celebrating the Great Books for Men and the Bible, while making fun of the buttcockerz, like the GBFM does.

    But sadly, most churchians would rather side with the buttcockerz and persecute and prod those who suggest we return the Great Books for Men to our universities.

  55. @ Dragnet

    It isn’t her…. physical looks, completely. It’s that in the Africa pictures she looks wholesome. She hits the sweet spot for me, personally, between sexually attractive and likely to be pleasant to be around. Not bitchy, sassy, whatever.

    In the new pictures she looks like a typical American girl with the “I just graduated college now I’m a classy bitch who drinks 6 dollar bottles of wine.” She owns one cat. She cares about the world, world hunger, and works at a non-profit. Every other night she has overly rosey cheeks and nose from too much of the wine under the excuse of it helping her relax and sleep after such a stressful day. The cat curls up on her feet and she wonders when she’ll meet Mr Right. Friday night her and the girls go out to either a hipster bar for beers or a chic modern place for margaritas. Saturday they stay in, watch Sex in the City, and drink mojitos.

    I have no idea if these things are correct. I just have met enough of these women that this is where my mind goes when I see someone with some body fat that looks newly gained, is in her younger 20’s, and has the wine blush going on. I’ve dated one of them, slept with a few more, and would now advise anyone to avoid my mistakes.

  56. But the problem with attempts to manipulate language is reality has a way of overpowering the whitewash:

    Yes. They’ve gotten so used to being able to manipulate the language to get things the way they want them, that they don’t know any other way. PC speech codes started on college campuses as a serious thing, after all. In their ivory tower world, they can get away with that, because everyone agrees to believe the same lies. When they graduate and hit the real world, they still want to find a way to label things so everything keeps magically working in their favor, but it doesn’t work anymore.

  57. Ras Al Ghul says:

    A long time ago at university a group of men I was acquainted with had a contest for scoring with girls and the point system was 4 for a sophmore, 3 for a junior, 2 for a senior, and one for a freshman.

    The freshman were seen as naive and so less points, the seniors desperate. The sophmores had the highest attitude and felt they were in control and so where the hardest to bag.

    So this progression has been noticed for a long time

  58. Farm Boy says:

    Is education anywhere on the mind of this women?

  59. It isn’t her…. physical looks, completely. It’s that in the Africa pictures she looks wholesome.

    Right. In her younger pictures, she looks like a Nice Girl (whether she was or not). She could be from anywhere, city or rural, big family or small, quiet or outgoing. Meeting her would be exciting because everything about her would be new, and the possibilities would be endless.

    On the magazine cover, as you say, you know from one look exactly who she is. She either lives in NYC or plans to (and will tell you all about it). You know her politics, her spending habits, her favorite shows and actors, her attitude toward men, and the kind of language she uses. If you’ve spent time as a ride on the carousel, you can make a pretty good guess as to what she’ll do in bed and how quickly. All from one picture, and that’s sad (even if it’s only 80% correct).

    Women are supposed to be mysterious, dammit. And that’s the funny part: the fresh-faced girl with the plain clothes and simple hairstyle, smiling honestly into the camera, is far more mysterious than the one who’s trying so hard to be Ultimate Classy Chick.

  60. Ton says:

    Classy bitch who drinks 6 dollar bottles of wine
    —- Leap

    That my man is pure awesomeness

  61. herbn says:

    @Frank:

    One of the snarky gags I’ve hard recently regarding the issues here is how one startup wanted a coder with 10 years experience to work on hardware that’s only been out for 10 months. Heh. Probably not that much of an exaggeration either.

    http://h30565.www3.hp.com/t5/Feature-Articles/Tales-From-The-Crypt-of-Tech-Recruiter-Cluelessness/ba-p/735

    Similarly, circa 2000 I was job searching. Multiple ads for Java wanted 7 or 10 years experience in the language.

    It’s first public release was 1995. So, anyone with the 7 years (10 is iffy because I don’t remember when Oak’s development started, Oak being the internal to Sun project that became Java) was working at Sun Microsystems as a researcher. I doubt they were looking for run of the mill internal corporate IT jobs in New England, but you never know.

    That’s one thing I like about my shop of very talented and high end mathematicians and programmers doing complex mathematical modeling. There are more PhDs here than the math department from the university I attended. I’ve been told we hire at a ratio of 1:1000 resumes submitted (and the hardest part to believing that is I got hired).

    Yet the guy in the cubical next to me never even finished college. One of my coworkers we’re not sure if he finished high school. Yet the former is considered a peer by most and the later is considered one of the best programmers on the floor. It’s lovely to be in a place where HR’s job is to keep the rest of the company’s HR off your ass so you can do your job (including hiring talented people regardless of their credentials).

  62. @ Ton
    It’s true man. A girl thinks she’s classy just because she likes wine. She thinks she’s bad ass and one of the guys if she drinks beer. She’s real if she drinks PBR (but CERTAINLY not hipster, hah). She’s girly and feminine if she drinks sugary chemical concoctions.

    They buy into these stupid superficial things. I don’t know a single woman that actually orders quality liquor unless a man’s paying.

    Hell, try using it sometime. For about a month I drank only wine at bars, even the choice was a simple red or white. Women will see you as classy, ballsy, and standing out because most bars will be swarming with beer drinkers or rum and cokes. They’ll never ask you what kind it is – most wouldn’t know the difference between a malbec and a cab-sav mix and a merlot. If they know that a white zin is actually pink I’d be surprised.

    Yet they’ll all be wine fanatics and love wine. Almost be experts in their heads. Like I said, classy 6 dollar bottle bitches.

    Gotta h/t both Badger and Vox on the wine tip originally. Tried it for awhile after they pointed out beer being a drink of the peasants. I find I get more attention and don’t feel as sluggish without the carbs, which is worth a few extra dollars a drink. Depending on mood I now alternate between a red wine and johnny walker black on the rocks. I enjoy both and get comments almost every time I order.

  63. greyghost says:

    Boones Farm Strawberry Hill is vaginal lube and panty remover in a bottle. ha ha ha ha $2.99. You can get 2 bottles for 6 dollars.

  64. Anonymous Reader says:

    Vascluarity77
    Martian: I appreciate what you are saying. There is merit to your point. But nonetheless, having at least a four-year degree in “anything” will open doors to jobs that would otherwise not be open.

    This was true 30 years ago. It is not true now. Many Humanities BA’s are all but worthless, partly because of the huge over supply and partly because many Humanities colleges are just indoctrination centers. GPA is no longer as much of a factor, either, due to grade inflation. A degree in English Lit or Communications (speech) might be useful as a start on something else, I have met a couple of pastors who took those degrees to divinity school, but by itself it is not that useful. And as Wayne Gretzky said, “Don’t skate to where the puck is, skate to where the puck will be“, this is not easy in the modern world, but attempting to figure out where to be in 8 years based on where someone else is now, or was 4 years back, is not going to work.

    Focus on a core skill set of competencies. Can he write intelligently, using more than the usual words? That skill will always be of use, and not just commenting on blogs. Can he at least do algebra on real world problems? Most business math is arithmetic with a dash of algebra, but it is amazing how many people are not capable of even that. Does he know how to learn something on his own? That ‘s possibly the most important skill to have, the ability to learn something on his own. Is he willing to do work that others don’t want to do, or can’t do? That is the heart of the matter. The millionaire plumber I know was willing to take any job, no matter how ugly. A successful accountant I know rarely turned down work, and both of them sometimes lost money on an individual job / contract but made up for it in good will earned.

    Can he tell a phony when he meets her, or him? That takes years, but the earlier started the better. The images accompanying this article are a good place to start…

  65. GBFM – Excellent list. But to paraphrase SNL, it needs more (Thomas) Sowell.

  66. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    thanks!!!

    “nightskyradio says:
    April 12, 2013 at 7:17 pm
    GBFM – Excellent list. But to paraphrase SNL, it needs more (Thomas) Sowell.”

    `yes sowell is cool too.🙂

    i am compiling a list of the attacks from the churchians against me for actually suggesting that men man up and read the GREAT BOOKS FOR MEN and instill their principles in our institutions so as to save the classic family structure.

    churchians have:

    1. accused me of being satan for quoting scripture.
    2. labeled the wisdom of jesus “noise”.
    3. likened the wisdom of jesus to a firehose of noise.
    4. stated that jesus came to abolish the law of moses and ten commandments, and not fulfill them.

    is it any wonder churchians fave lost their families and the soul of the church?

  67. Infantry says:

    I can’t believe I’m taking literary advice from a man who’s canonical addition to the manosphere is a poem about ‘butthexting’, but here we are.

    Thanks for the tips GBFM. It’s about time I got stuck into the classics.

  68. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    lzoozlzozo

    “Infantry says:
    April 12, 2013 at 7:28 pm
    I can’t believe I’m taking literary advice from a man who’s canonical addition to the manosphere is a poem about ‘butthexting’, but here we are.

    Thanks for the tips GBFM. It’s about time I got stuck into the classics.”

    Dante’s Inferno was a poem about butthexting lzozozoozo:

    in dante’s inferno the fiat masters were in teh same level of hell as teh butthexers!!! i ma not making this up!!! omg lzozllzlzlz

    the raison dat roissy and i gets along so wells is dat i play the striaght man to his funniness lzozlzllz

    like he talks about all teh light hearted subjsted like game and betaherb h8ers lzozlzlz and i cover all teh dark things descening into hell like dante did in the inferno and shuddering at all teh secretive tapers and tapinsg off butthex underway.

    hey you know whas funny?

    i dant’es inferno the usuers were in the same level as heel as the butthexers.

    in dante’s inferno the fiat masters were in teh same level of hell as teh butthexers!!! i ma not making this up!!!

    the fiat masters were right next to the butthexers lzozlzlzl!!!

    (14), Sodomy (15-16), Usury (17)

    no wonder they hate the greta books in colleges lzozlzlzllz and prefer tucker max sodomites lzozlzl

    http://danteworlds.laits.utexas.edu/circle7.html#violence

    “those who violate nature, God’s offspring (sodomites: Inferno 15-16); and those who harm industry and the economy, offspring of nature and therefore grandchild of God (usurers: Inferno 17). Identifying the sins of these last two groups with Sodom and Cahors (Inf. 11.49-50), Dante draws on the biblical destruction of Sodom (and Gomorrah) by fire and brimstone (Genesis 19:24-5) and the medieval condemnations of citizens of Cahors (a city in southern France) for usury. Dante’s emotional reactions to the shades in the seventh circle range from neutral observation of the murderers and compassion for a suicide to respect for several Florentine sodomites and revulsion at the sight and behavior of the lewd usurers. ”

    lolzozlzlzozozlzlzlzozlzzlzlzzozlzlz neocons hate dantes infrmnoo oolzozlzl

    lozlzlzozlzl

    lozlzlzlz

    Dante recognized that in order to prop up the false value of their fiat regime, the MBA must naturally commit violence against art—one can see the financial lzozlozolzo motivations for the deconstruction and dumbing down of the academy lozlzlzlz—for the removal of Zeus’ lzozlzl lightning and Moses’s lzozllzlz thundering justice—for the concerted attack on the exalted, masculine soul which passes judgment on FRAUD:

    The monstrous shape lands on the brink and Virgil salutes it ironically. It is GERYON, the MONSTER OF FRAUD. Virgil announces that they must fly down from the cliff on the back of this monster. While Virgil negotiates for their passage, Dante is sent to examine the USURERS (The Violent against Art). . . These sinners sit in a crouch along the edge of the burning plain that approaches the cliff. Each of them has a leather purse around his neck, and each purse is blazoned with a coat of arms. Their eyes, gushing with tears, are forever fixed on these purses. Dante recognizes none of these sinners, but their coats of arms are unmistakably those of well-known Florentine families. . . Having understood who they are and the reason for their present condition, Dante cuts short his excursion and returns to find Virgil mounted on the back of Geryon. Dante joins his Master and they fly down from the great cliff. . . Their flight carries them from the Hell of the VIOLENT AND THE BESTIAL (The Sins of the Lion) into the Hell of the FRAUDULENT AND MALICIOUS (The Sins of the Leopard). –p. 133, The Divine Comedy (The Inferno, The Purgatorio, and The Paradiso) by Dante Alighieri and John Ciardi

    loozozozozlzozozozozozoz

    dis has been a gbfm scholarly lectueere lecturez zlzozooz

  69. tz2026 says:

    And a SWUG — a female Yalie defined by a “don’t-give-a-fuck” or “DGAF” attitude — should be the modern young feminist ideal.

    Did I misread or misunderstand, or doesn’t she give (yes for free) a fuck to the best Alpha of that current evening?

    And most women are certainly intemperate, liking whine well beyond the point it causes them to lose reason and even often fine motor skill.

  70. Anonymous Reader says:

    Leap, the wine/beer bifurcation is old as the hills but still works. A few minutes with Wiki, or a copy of “Wine Spectator” once in a while and you’re good to go to talk with almost anyone in a bar, and a lot of people in a restaurant. When dining with a woman don’t even let her see the wine list, it’s your property and she should not trouble her head about it. One way to provide a bit of entertainment: ponder the list with furrowed brow, and then choose the least expensive red by the glass. But for bonus points, ponder and then pick something unusual by the glass. If it’s good, then just bask in your success. If it’s crummy plonk, then dismiss the error as an experiment, a bad year, a bad bottle… For the record, the Argentinian Malbec wines have become very good in the last few years, as have the wines from Chile, most of which come from the Maipo valley. Some places sell these by the glass at cost comparable to California CabSav’s, but you get the mystery of South American wine vs. Napa valley.

    Another dodge is “gin and ginger ale” if you are not making a statement, because after one or two you can switch to “ginger ale” but your glass looks the same as before. Nobody knows what you are drinking. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King…

    Drinking stuff straight up or on the rocks can make a pretty good point, depending on what’s en vogue. Drinking something that isn’t what everyone else is slamming can be a real DHV, if played properly. Seems like everyone is hitting some flavored vodka or other nowadays, so something else is in order. A real-deal Martini can be good stuff, if good gin is used (and if you like gin…), but you have to play with the drink rather than slam it down, in a social setting. Mojito’s used to be fun to drink before they became the new frozen dacqueri. The only place I drink them now is if I”m in Arizona or south Texas or some other hot place where they make sense.

    If you are used to drinking wine, then here’s another angle: cognac. First of all, it’s not that common, and it still has a bit of a cache’. Just ordering it can be a bit of a DHV. Second, you can nurse a snifter of cognac for up to an hour and most barmaids/waitresses/bartenders won’t hassle you. During that same time, everyone else has slammed down three beers or whatevers… Third, you can from time to time put on a bit of a show about having it warmed up for you, to some proper temperature or other. Bonus: if the cigar scene is still around in some cities, that’s one of the standard drinks to go with the stogie, and that helps you to fit in. Know the diff between VS and VSOP, and you are way ahead of most bar crowds.

    Really interesting mixed drinks exist, such as the sidecar, the French 75, Sazerac, and many others that can be found in older bar books, or on the web… but few bartenders know how to mix them outside of really big cities anymore. Even the plain old Manhattan cocktail is often just bourbon on the rocks with a dash of bitters and a tiny coloration of vermouth – that’s a bourbon “Mantini”, not a Manhattan. So know your bartender’s limits in mixology, unless you are personally willing to teach them how to pour and mix for you. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, you can work that into a routine if you wish, that enables you to DHV in a genteel way.

  71. Anonymous Reader says:

    Oh, and looking at the pix, I fear that Cail Corishev is right: the latest image of the authoress contains a host of “tells” about her life, politics, and habits. When I was a bartender, I would expect to serve a couple of rounds of Long Island Iced Teas, possibly intermingled with frozen dacqs, to such a woman – and her 3 or 4 friends. Nowadays more likely Mojitos, but I really don’t keep track of what’s “in” in the drinks. Point being, too much drinking and other chemicals, not enough sleep and likely some degree of self-dislike all contributing to physically aging a bit too fast. Unfortunately quite common in the urban landscape.

    Or to put it in terms of the O.P., this plan is clearly not working out. It won’t end well. Even the current condition is “not a good look”.

  72. Nice. Thanks for the lesson.

    Yeah, I usually go for the Malbecs myself. I enjoy how well they’re balanced and because of various factors (non-European, younger vineyards, and currency exchanges) they’re usually a damn sight cheaper too.

    Never had Cognac though. Would you recommend a particular one for entry level?

    I’m starting to get into good scotches as well, though rarely can afford the ones I like. I never expected to enjoy the smokey, delicious peatiness of them, but I love it. I’ve found some caffeinated teas that taste the same here too, for when want to relax mentally but stay focused on a project.

    Maybe some day I’ll get into the mix drinks. I’ll try the true Manhattan on a slow night at the bar, when I can make sure I’m getting it done as it should be instead of messed up. None of the bars I go to are ‘mixology’ heavy, so I’m unsure of the bartenders skill.

  73. Phil says:

    GBFM is trying again to take over the comments section. Hopefully, commentators will actually comment on dalrock’s article. Since it is dalrock’s site, after all.

  74. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    dear phil,

    my comments are not only relevant, but indispensible.

    the reason why we find ourselves in this decline–decline of faith and family–is because men like you have stopped reading the great books of, by, and for men.

    dalrock is noting what happens at a yale that has deconstructed THE GREATS:

    “Rosin starts to point out that some time along the way “Tali” had started wanting something more. Tali now wished a man would ask her out on a $3 frozen yogurt date. However, Rosin then quickly closes the door on any yearning for something other than hookup culture, explaining that women really are empowered by it.

    This question, each time, prompted a look of horror. Reform the culture, maybe, teach women to “advocate for themselves”—a phrase I heard many times—but end it? Never.”

    the ancients Homer Moses and Jesus akk taught against the hookup culture.

    which is why they had to be destroyed.

    again, here phil is, adding nothing constructive, but only attacking me.

  75. SlargTarg says:

    This looks like it will turn out well:

    Why Settle for a Princeton Man?

    Between the ages of 25 and 40, for every 100 men with a college education there are now 132 college-educated women. That may sound like the marriage market for educated women has become even thinner, which it has for women who insist on finding a better-educated husband. But many women now are looking for other qualities.

    For example, the gender imbalance has led many educated women to marry much younger men. These men are game because they prefer to have a wife who is older and more economically successful over a wife who is younger and less able to provide financial stability. The women, in turn, get a young, virile spouse.

    Once again we see feminists encourage women to ape male behavior.

    Older successful women going for much younger less successful spouses is not going to work out the same way as when the genders are reversed.

    Its too stupid to be stupid.

  76. James says:

    @vascularity777

    Don’t discourage your son from going to college. The hookup culture is a choice, and more men than women avoid it, as other pages here attest. There is no substitute for a good education in a STEM subject.

  77. “Hard living is apparently hard on a woman’s looks. ”

    Truly. Women think they can do whatever a man can do, but a woman’s physical make-up can not take punishment like a man’s.

  78. James says:

    She’s yearning for a $3 frozen yoghurt date. She’d probably settle for Skittles.

    http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/be-a-skittles-man/

  79. Steven says:

    @FeministHater

    Notice how she could not be bothered to have her own White children to dote upon?

  80. Anonymous Reader says:

    Hey, Dalrock, here is an off topic study that looks interesting at first glance. The N is a bit small at 225, but the methodology seems adequate. Yes, it is correlation vs. causation at first glance, but correlations can be useful if approached with caution. IMO this is another piece of evidence that people should be real, real careful how they use social media.

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57579352-76/study-anxiety-and-alcohol-use-linked-to-facebook/

  81. retrophoebia says:

    @ GBFM: I like the reading list. Have gotten through about a third of the listed titles.

    On a more contemporary note, and though he’s not a classic (yet), Cormac McCarthy has some good stuff. The Road and All The Pretty Horses are important.

    Do you have a corresponding list for music? I’d guess–from listening to Ke$ha vs Bach–that there’s also some connection between what you listen to and how you think. And correspondingly that someone who spends more time with Beethoven’s symponies vs Teh Postal Service may get some man-benefit from it.

  82. Anonymous Reader says:

    Leap
    Yeah, I usually go for the Malbecs myself. I enjoy how well they’re balanced and because of various factors (non-European, younger vineyards, and currency exchanges) they’re usually a damn sight cheaper too.

    Inexpensive wine does not have to be cheap plonk. I admit that I won’t drink wine out of a box anymore, so in some circles that makes me a snob – meh. There’s plenty of bottles out there for $15 or even less that are great. Re cork and put in the fridge, it will keep for a few days.

    Never had Cognac though. Would you recommend a particular one for entry level?

    All the standard labels are good, the differences are subtle. Most bars will have Martell, Hennessy, and/or Courvoisier. I’m partial to the last because it’s the first one I ever tried, although ironically it is not produced in the town of Cognac, but down the road in Jarnac. The story of Cognac is pretty funny; a second rate white wine that doesn’t travel worth a hoot becomes the brandy, thanks to various stubborn personalities. The difference between VS and VSOP can be noticeable, but it is all worth drinking. Just don’t start with VSOP and then decide to save money by switching down to the VS, it won’t taste as good. Kinda like going from a microbrew beer to Hamms or Bud…

    I’m starting to get into good scotches as well, though rarely can afford the ones I like. I never expected to enjoy the smokey, delicious peatiness of them, but I love it. I’ve found some caffeinated teas that taste the same here too, for when want to relax mentally but stay focused on a project.

    Scots whiskies are a whole world unto themselves. I really don’t know much about them, beyond a few articles I’ve read, but the history is interesting, the variations seem almost endless and range from dark, peaty drinks to light, easy on the palate decepticon “oh, I’ll have some more…thud” drinks. There’s lots of DHV’s to play if you want to, but the whiskey itself is quite interesting and surely would give a man something to pleasantly talk about, too. Distillery tours in Scotland are supposed to be a real interesting journey, maybe someday I’ll find out for myself.

    Black tea is a whole ‘nother world. If you like smoky stuff, and have not tried Lapsang Souchong, I think you would find it interesting. Prince of Wales is a good blend. But if you can find Kousmichoff tea, it is worth the cost, an inexpensive luxury.

    Maybe some day I’ll get into the mix drinks. I’ll try the true Manhattan on a slow night at the bar, when I can make sure I’m getting it done as it should be instead of messed up. None of the bars I go to are ‘mixology’ heavy, so I’m unsure of the bartenders skill.

    There are so many second rate mixed drinks, I avoided them for years. Americans love sweet stuff, that’s part of the problem. It was only when I bought a couple of bar books at the 2nd hand book store I started looking into some of the old, 1920’s era drinks and found some things I liked.

  83. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    yes! always listen to beethoven’s heroic symphonies when reading moby dick!

    Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy.
    Ludwig van Beethoven

    What you are, you are by accident of birth; what I am, I am by myself. There are and will be a thousand princes; there is only one Beethoven.
    Ludwig van Beethoven

    Music should strike fire from the heart of man, and bring tears form the eyes of woman.
    Ludwig van Beethoven

    Anyone who tells a lie has not a pure heart, and cannot make a good soup.
    Ludwig van Beethoven

    Recommend virtue to your children; it alone, not money, can make them happy. I speak from experience.
    Ludwig van Beethoven

    This is the mark of a really admirable man: steadfastness in the face of trouble.
    Ludwig van Beethoven

    The barriers are not erected which can say to aspiring talents and industry, “Thus far and no farther.” Ludwig van Beethoven

  84. Paul Murray says:

    “But there is more to the story. It turns out that “Tali” is Raisa Bruner, the author of the SWUGNATION article which the media is going nuts over:”
    In other words: it’s all bloviation by a tiny, tiny group of a few dozen women on the web and in the media. Nothing to see here, folks.

  85. dannyfrom504 says:

    GBFM-

    still waiting to see if you’re ever going to show up at my place. lol.

  86. They Call Me Tom says:

    Great books- you need to add Frederic Bastiat’s ‘The Law’ to your list. It makes an irrefutable argument against Marx, even though it was written before Das Kapital was a glimmer in Marx’s eye. Feminism is after all a poor man’s version of Marxism, if young adults and teenagers were familiar with Bastiat, chances are they wouldn’t get suckered into the lies of Marxism and Feminism alike.

  87. They Call Me Tom says:

    p.s. Also to ‘The Law’ ‘s benefit, it’s only about 100 pages, so even with a short attention span culture, it’s still consumable.

  88. Anonymous Reader says:

    Paul Murray
    In other words: it’s all bloviation by a tiny, tiny group of a few dozen women on the web and in the media. Nothing to see here, folks.

    Gloria Steinem, Shulamith Firestone, Jane Fonda, Andrea Dworkin, Katherine MacKinnon – these were also all part of a tiny, tiny group of a few dozen women in the media…

  89. They Call Me Tom says:

    I still find it amazing that a warthog like Dworkin ever had credibility speaking to women. If you look at the fashion magazines that women buy… there aren’t any Dworkins on the cover. Dworkins aren’t what women aspire to be… so where did here credibility come from with feminists?

  90. Anonymous Reader says:

    Someone:
    “Hard living is apparently hard on a woman’s looks. ”

    The Real Peterman
    Truly. Women think they can do whatever a man can do, but a woman’s physical make-up can not take punishment like a man’s.

    Yep. Take alcohol, for example. The first round of absorbing it happens in the stomach. As it happens, women have thinner stomach linings than men, so for a given amount of booze more of it hits their bloodstream faster than men. That’s why women can’t keep up with men in shot for shot, as a rule. It is probably why women alcoholics typically die younger than men alkies, for that matter; the more rapid increase in alcohol in the blood stream likely stresses the liver more.

    And, by the way, that’s why party girls age faster than their more sedate sisters…referring to the OP.

    We have enough data now from athletics to point out how many women quit menstruating in their quest for physical excellence – that’s nature’s way of telling a woman she’s pushed it too far, because that particular event in a pre-menopausal woman is a response to famine…

    Women are not “men who can have babies”. Anatomy, physiology, brain studies, etc. prove this. “Science has spoken”. Yet to say this truth in public can get a Harvard president fired…

  91. Novaseeker says:

    Once again we see feminists encourage women to ape male behavior.

    Older successful women going for much younger less successful spouses is not going to work out the same way as when the genders are reversed.

    Its too stupid to be stupid.

    This is the table-turning fantasy — i.e., that high powered women en masse are going to turn the tables on their peer men and marry young stud trophy husbands. It’s a feminist revenge fantasy.

    I will say this — I have known 1-2 couples like this in my 20+ years in the highly educated (post-grad) workplace, and both of them had a very good looking H who was also quite smart (not necessarily much younger, in these cases a year or two at the most) and had other stuff going on (like extreme sports, successful artist. etc.). I haven’t seen this 40 year old superpowered career woman of average looks marrying a 25 year old virile cocksman as house-husband really — I have not seen it at all.

  92. Andrew says:

    Slargtarg,

    That article is hilarious, that some women would actually believe that nonsense, acting like men will want to marry up. Gut instinct tells any man with a brain that’s a bad idea–just as the article links it to infidelity. “Financially dependent husbands” what a laugh. Any man who would be willing to do something like that would never attract the interest of a high educated, “career-driven” woman anyway. They’re way to busy trying to steal their married bosses.

  93. Novaseeker says:

    Gloria Steinem, Shulamith Firestone, Jane Fonda, Andrea Dworkin, Katherine MacKinnon – these were also all part of a tiny, tiny group of a few dozen women in the media…

    Right. It always was a small cadre, a very unrepresentative one. That isn’t important. Opinion-makers, by definition, are a small cadre. Their influence is nevertheless significant. So, yes, having a man-hating bitch like Hanna Rosin constantly chuckling with her small circle about how men are losers and suck is not a big deal other than the fact that she writes in national publications, is published by mainstream publishers, and is guiding the national conversation on men’s issues currently. So, yes, it matters.

  94. Andrew says:

    What’s even funnier is when it happens in university, and how women act. I got “pursued” by a woman who was 34, (I’m 21) and to my amazement, she acted all hurt and surprised when I gently told her I wouldn’t date a woman her age. I’m sure a fair amount of guys would go for flings with somewhat older women, but they’re in delusion to think that younger guys would have a real relationship with them, much less marry. Claiming that 1% of guys (6’s or above, since those women would never go for losers or fatties anyways) would go for marriage to a woman noticeable older would be laughable.

  95. Anonymous Reader says:

    Andrew, go see if “The Graduate” is on Netflix or otherwise rentable. It’s from the late 60’s, and some of the dialog is dated (“If I could say one word to you, it would be this – plastics!”) but the basic story is thoroughly modern. In a sense, Mrs. Robinson is the prototypical cougar. And this movie is even more interesting when viewed through the glasses, in Game terms, including the final, long, wordless scene.

  96. Novaseeker says:

    Yup, The Graduate is required viewing.

    Men sleeping with much older willing women is nothing new and not surprising or groundbreaking. Men marrying much older women and being their boytoy/trophy/househusbands is not a thing — it just is very uncommon, and is basically a revenge fantasy fueled by women’s frustration with how men select wives.

  97. eheh says:

    Why must we always care about what the Khazar thinks. Doesn’t anyone else find this odd. I love the end of her blog where she’s determined to make SWUG a positive term. That’s like someone spending billions of dollars trying to make TAINT a positive thing. Good Freakin Luck with that, but you know how stubborn teh womenz get.

  98. grey_whiskers says:

    @They Call Me Tom said on April 12, 2013 at 9:29 pm (and @Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM)) —

    Great books- you need to add Frederic Bastiat’s ‘The Law’ to your list. It makes an irrefutable argument against Marx, even though it was written before Das Kapital was a glimmer in Marx’s eye.

    *Don’t* forget Hilaire Belloc’s The Servile State which predicted in 1913 that what we now know as the modern welfare state was the inevitable result of the clash of Communism and Market-based economies…

  99. DavidVS says:

    Are people really recommending alcoholic drinks but neglecting to mention port?

    What is the world coming to!?

  100. Natalie says:

    For those of you looking into mixed drinks I highly suggest the booklet Home Bar Basics. My husband bought it a while back, and it’s really a lot of fun watching him play bartender when we have guests over. Most of the drinks are just really good staples that most people enjoy drinking (Old Fashions, Tom Collins, Sazerac, Mojito, etc). The author also goes into what you need to make a good quality drink (ie what’s worth drinking and what’s just an expensive label) and suggests tools and upgrades to the not-so-basics. From there it’s easy to branch out into craft liquors (Art in the Age puts out some fabulous stuff as does Old World Spirits and Clear Creek Distilleries) and more complicated concoctions involving absinth and creme de violet and a wonderful array of bitters. Total DHV when he’s over there mixing drinks and pulling out things most people never get the chance to try and I’m on the other side of the kitchen putting together a kick-ass meal. I love seeing him passionate about something and opening up whole new vistas to people who normally stick with jack and coke or a cheap red from the wine list.

    And oh my goodness the wonderful world of whiskey🙂 Beautiful stuff. My personal favorites are the gnarly Scotches (ie Laphroig), but there’s so much out there that’s worth drinking. Just don’t ever put single malt in a coke. Never, EVER put a friend’s single malt in your coke because he just might punch you in the face :p

  101. Martian Bachelor says:

    I’m glad to hear someone likes those S. American wines. I keep trying them at intervals, based on how great they’ve supposedly gotten, and am always left wondering what anybody sees in them. There’s just no accounting for taste.

    Forgive me, for I have zinned… lolzz

    $6 wine, $3 fake ice cream… I remember making a comment elsewhere not long ago that in no time we’d have ’em down to “I think I may have a piece of a chocolate bar left in my pack – let me see what I can do for you…”.

    Anyway, I agree that fine booze tends to be to women like pearls to swine. Even the basics seem beyond most of them. So the tawny port is for me.

  102. Höllenhund says:

    Re:Nova

    “Opinion-makers, by definition, are a small cadre. Their influence is nevertheless significant.”

    You forgot to add that the reason they are “opinion-makers” in the first place is that…well, actually the reason for their status is precisely that they don’t “make” opinions – in this case: women’s opinions -, instead they simply tell women what they want to hear.

  103. tbc says:

    Ha! The title of the original post alone is classic: it seems rather starting with many and varied ‘bangings’ rather than just one.

    All of this seems to be nothing more than an continual repeat of our first mother in the garden, who was tempted to have it all and ended with nothing at all, except for heartache and frustration and broken relationship. Why is it that people (and women especially) continue to believe they can defy the laws of God without consequence? It simply is not possible and no amount of linguistic gymnastics can make it so.

    Or put another way, in the proverbial: You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas. And now these mangy, fleas ridden women seek to redefine dogs, fleas, and lying down in such a way as to remove the ‘damned spot’ of their shame. Ain’t gonna happen

  104. Ton says:

    Lol, no thanks Leap. I will take your word for it on the wine but nothing under 80proof is worth drinking. I drink bourbon on the rocks or moonshine I cooked myself. Plus wine and the like doesn’t sit well with me. Course never had any of that fancy pants $6 wine…

    Mostly I see girls drink vodka and something…then rum and sugar drinks like you mentioned or those silly shooter things. Unless I’m at biker bar then it beer and shots. On dates I recall a lot of wine or beer. Really I don’t pay that much attention.

    Girls do pay attention to what I drink. This one time….. That story isn’t appropriate but girls do pay attention and like all things It’s some where on their list

    I have the book home bar basics. It’s a winner with the ladies. You need to practice making the drinks for someone before you offer to make drinks for chicks flavored moonshines I make do better, showing them I have a a still, and yes make my own whiskey is better yet. Nothing like illegal behavior to get a hamster spinning and it beats saying want to go back to my place for a movie

    There is no point in a man marrying up, we don’t get to take half her shit when we leave

  105. ukfred says:

    @Vascularity 777 I would recommend to my son to learn either electrics or plumbing, because they cannot be outsourced to some cheap-labour, third-world country. In Britain a couple of years ago, one of our top biologists gave up working at a university as a lecturer and researcher to become a plumber and doubled his income in around a year.

    @GBFM How could you? You recommend Beethoven but ignore Mozart. Your are Linus (from Peanuts) and I claim my $5. The horn concertos alone make Mozart worth listening to. And then there is the scene from Shawshank Redemption.

    Cognac is the best known brandy, but Armagnac is also good brandy, albeit one that no resident from Cognac would ever be seen drinking.

    To all those who have been talking about Scotch Whisky, (and speaking as a Scot), Islay whiskies are peaty, like Laphoiag, Highland malts (Glenmorangie, Glen Goyne) are smoother, Speysides (Glernfiddich, Glen Livet) richer than Highland, but not at all smokey. De luxe blends like Chivas Regal are easier on the gullet than some of the less-well finished single malts. But above all, remember the two famous Scottish sayings: “There no such thing as bad whisky, just good whisky and better whisky”, and “There’s only one thing to put in whisky…more whisky.”

  106. Miserman says:

    GBFM wrote, my comments are not only relevant, but indispensable.

    Be careful, GBFM. Your comments are very relevant and admirable, but I do not know if they are indispensable. We are, after all, but dust and ashes.

    God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar. – Romans 3:4

  107. tbc says:

    the graveyards are filled with indispensable men

  108. Buck says:

    There are no good girls gone wrong – just bad girls found out.”

    ― Mae West

  109. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    Dear miserman,

    When you and/or your brother’s future wives are out there getting buttcocked and deousled, thanks for admonishing the GBFM!

    The more I think about it, the more I realize that the family is failing and fatherhood is falling because churchians have turned their backs on the Great Books for Men which teach of Fatherhood and the Family. Whiny little churchians love, love, love to attack, persecute, castiagte, and impugn those who quote Homer and the Bible. But buttcock a girl, tape it in secrtet, and pfoit off the work, and the churchians applaud and give you a free pass.

    And then the chuchians wake up one day to ask, “why is my wife’s butthollzozo so big? lzozozoozozoz, why is she never home? why did she take my kids? why are they garnishing my wages.”

    Long story short, churchians love butthext over god and christ, and so they are now ruled bybutthext and butt and gina tingeloozozo instead of god and christ–instead of faith and family.

    All churchains have to do is read the Great Books for Menz andreinstill their churches, universities, culture, courts, and customs with the wisdom.

    But instead they accuse those who quote Jesus of being Satan before asking, “Why does mywife keep saying he r butt is sore?” zlzoozozoozo

  110. freebird says:

    Home made dandelion wine for the win,nearly free,yet priceless,and a powerful buzz.

    As for the fornication talk:

    Sex is for virgin-now married couples to procreate.

    Sex for profit,fun,pleasure is harlotry.

    And that’s why you’re a whore.

  111. Uncle Silas says:

    GBFM has provided a great core list of reading for a man. However, if he finds himself exhausted with the great books and is eager for serious “light” reading that upholds Western values, I would recommend the novels of the 19th century. As I dealt with a loveless marriage and deal with a miserable divorce, I found, and continue to find, that Anthony Trollope, Walter Scott, and Francis Marion Crawford provide valuable life lessons. I would challenge anyone to find an author who could dissect the marriage market with as much wit and wisdom as Mr. Trollope. Glencora’s fascination with the cad Burgo Fitzgerald and disdain for with the beta Plantagenent Palliser in “Can You Forgive Her?” packs more of punch now I am red pill aware. Walter Scott’s historical romances are unread and unpopular today, as people find them too dense and wordy. However, if one reads the well-annotated Edinburgh Edition of the Waverley Novels, he will soon find that Scott was a man of great wisdom. His novels depict men and women who, however constrained by their own culture and mores, improved the lot of future generations. The failed Jacobite rebellion depicted “Waverley” led ultimately to modern Scotland. The Scottish Reformation and the subsequent Covenanter movement detailed “The Monastery”, “The Abbot”, and “The Tale of Old Mortality” provide the reader with a shorthand account of how, over the course of two centuries, freedom of thought and religion became the norm for the Western world. These days, where modern men are expected to be pliable fops and women over-sexualized hounds, the honorable men and women of Scott’s novels appear unreal and cartoonish. Unfortunately, modern men and women do not realize that they are the unreal cartoons. Finally, few people read F. Marion Crawford these days. However, if a man wants to find the best novelization of the tragic effects of beta servitude in marriage, Crawford’s “Too Leeward” is a must. If he’s interested in what a late 19th century, washed-up carousel rider looked like, he should peruse “Greifenstein”.

  112. mackPUA says:

    WOW Yale leading the the welfare crack whore movement … what next free crack pipes to all under-age teenage sluts, to go with their free condoms & abortions?

    Yale’s a godamn joke … their hard science & engineering classes rock though

    Math’s too hard for carousel riding whores, apparently…

    Women destroying their ability to bond with their husbands & kids… feminists sure know how to take themselves out of the gene pool …

    Until women start flooding into the Hard Sciences, instead of Hard Porn lol … women will NEVER be able to compete with men on any scale

    Their inability to innovate or create, makes women a liability

    Producing results is far superior to sucking the resources of a hapless beta …

    These women need to teach women how to produce & intellectualism, not reproduce

    Any woman with a vagina can reproduce, the fact these women hold hook up culture as feminism, PROVES how useless womens movements are as a whole

    What idiot see’s sleeping around with hundreds of men as a … political ideal … freaking hilarious

    At least with Game, we see it for what it is, to keep insane irrational, emotional women under control & getting pussy as a result

    Womens movements, just like the pointlessly gay & the welfare crack whore movement … ie fascist police state, shoot you for having values & morals … liberals … are all designed to extract resources from straight masculine men …

    Womens movements without a patriarchial culture, devolve into vagina worshipping retard movements …

    Seriously this has to be stated twice … What idiot see’s sleeping around with hundreds of men as a … political ideal …

    Seriously cant women do anything without worshipping their own gdmn vaginas?

  113. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    Thanks Uncle Silas!

    It is nice to see a Man talking about books, instead of hurling epithets at me and accusing me of being Satan for quoting scripture, which the churchians label as a “firehose of noise,” while mackPUA yells that it is far better to buttcock desouled, pre-buttcocked womenz than improve one’s soul by reading the Great Books and Classics.

    One thing I have realized is that Homer, Shakespeare, and the Gospels *are* Light Reading. For they are concise, brief, noble, profound, and eloquent, and they can be read at many different levels, returned to time and again throughout one’s life, like old friends.

    Some of the novelists you list I find to be “heavy” reading, with sentences that go on and on and on, to little or no avail, sans the noble, moral message found in Homer, Shakespeare, and the Bible.

    As a Scotsman, I must read your suggestions here: “However, if one reads the well-annotated Edinburgh Edition of the Waverley Novels, he will soon find that Scott was a man of great wisdom. His novels depict men and women who, however constrained by their own culture and mores, improved the lot of future generations. The failed Jacobite rebellion depicted “Waverley” led ultimately to modern Scotland. The Scottish Reformation and the subsequent Covenanter movement detailed “The Monastery”, “The Abbot”, and “The Tale of Old Mortality” provide the reader with a shorthand account of how, over the course of two centuries, freedom of thought and religion became the norm for the Western world. These days, where modern men are expected to be pliable fops and women over-sexualized hounds, the honorable men and women of Scott’s novels appear unreal and cartoonish. Unfortunately, modern men and women do not realize that they are the unreal cartoons. Finally, few people read F. Marion Crawford these days. However, if a man wants to find the best novelization of the tragic effects of beta servitude in marriage, Crawford’s “Too Leeward” is a must. If he’s interested in what a late 19th century, washed-up carousel rider looked like, he should peruse “Greifenstein”.”

    Thanks!🙂

  114. Ton says:

    Sir Walter Scot should be on every man’s reading list, but then again I’m from the South and better minds then mine have made the claims about his writings impact on our culture

  115. Solomon says:

    God help me, I think I actually want to read GBFMs list.

    I think I have to. It’s going to take some work, but I like that sort of work.

    GBFM you ought to check out my book ‘The Altar’ and give me your take.

    Sound doctrine? Churchian? The world wants to know! So bust out your indispensable input on the matter and tell me- could it be that a book right here in our era is a “great book for men”

    ???

    lozlzooloozlzoollzolz

  116. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    i’m rather surprised that noboy has yet mentioned yale scholar harold bloom’s elegy for the western canon:

    http://www.mrbauld.com/elegy1.html

    i am quite shocked that nobody here has made the connection between the debasemnt and deconstruction of the GREAT BOOKS AND CLASSICS at Yale and the rise of the whiny harlot slut.

    i am rather shocked that i had to explain to phil that the GREAT BOOKS AND CLASSICS which include the BIBLE and MOSES and JESUS are NOT OFF TOPIC on a christian blog for MEN which is interested in restoring the CLASSICAL FAMILY. really phil? have the buttcokers gotten that deep in your butthole so that even your eyesight is affected?

    “President Clinton’s inaugural poem, by Maya Angelou, was praised in a New York Times editorial as a work of Whitmanian magnitude, and its sincerity is indeed overwhelming; it joins all the other instantly canonical achievements that flood our academies. The unhappy truth is that we cannot help ourselves; we can resist, up to a point, but past that point even our own universities would feel compelled to indict us as racists and sexists. I recall one of us, doubtless with irony, telling a New York Times interviewer that “We are all feminist critics.” That is the rhetoric suitable for an occupied country, one that expects no liberation from liberation. Institutions may hope to follow the advice of the prince in Lampedusa’s The Leopard, who counsels his peers, “Change everything just a little so as to keep everything exactly the same.””
    –http://www.mrbauld.com/elegy1.html

    Bloom is jut a pedantical Yale critic, and yet he laments the loss of the classicl soul far more than all the buttcocking, h8ing, seething churchians combined.

    http://www.amazon.com/Closing-American-Mind-Education-Impoverished/dp/1451683200

    all true men need to read this too: “THE BRILLIANT AND CONTROVERSIAL CRITIQUE OF AMERICAN CULTURE WITH NEARLY A MILLION COPIES IN PRINT
    In 1987, eminent political philosopher Allan Bloom published The Closing of the American Mind, an appraisal of contemporary America that “hits with the approximate force and effect of electroshock therapy” (The New York Times) and has not only been vindicated, but has also become more urgent today. In clear, spirited prose, Bloom argues that the social and political crises of contemporary America are part of a larger intellectual crisis: the result of a dangerous narrowing of curiosity and exploration by the university elites.

    Now, in this twenty-fifth anniversary edition, acclaimed author and journalist Andrew Ferguson contributes a new essay that describes why Bloom’s argument caused such a furor at publication and why our culture so deeply resists its truths today.”

    truly–reading the GREAT BOOKS FOR MEN will do far more good for your soul than gamingand buttcocking pre-buttcocked woemnz lzozoozoz

  117. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    begin today!

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=homer+lombardo

    the lombardo translations have excellent introductions which focus on the moral nobility of HOMER.

    so stop your buttoccking–stop buttocking pre-buttcocked womenz and stop trying to berankify the GBFM with your chucrichian cockas for quoting and celbrating the GREAT BOOKS FOR MEN, man up, leave the buttoccked lutz behind, and read as your MANLY FATHERS ONCE DID.

    READ THE GREAT BOOKS FOR MENZ!

    lzozooozzozo

  118. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    in bloated william bennet’s “book of man,” he leaves out the heart and soul of western civilization. a better name for bennet’s book would have been, “the book of fanboy manginas.”

    lzozozozolzolozoz

    in bloated william bennet’s “book of man,” he leaves out the heart and soul of western civilization. a better name for bennet’s book would have been, “the book of fanboy manginas.”

    jesus battled with the old, pedantic, dead-souled scribes in matthew 23, for which he was put to death. king leonidas had to consult with the corrupt, rotting, old counsel. in braveheart robert the bruce’s corrupt father had a face of rotting flesh. bill bennet reminds me of all of these, after a seven-day vegas-bender whence millions of fiat dollars, earned from an insincere, copy-and-paste “book of virtues” were gambled away.

    ye shall know them by their fruits, it has been written, and bill bennet is the godfather of all the debt and debauchery–of all the divorce and destitution–of the incessant asscocking, buttcocking, and desouling of the culture and currency–of the false, fiat virtues he is paid fiat dollarz to espouse and promote as the hollow man blimps up on CNN.

    bennet ignores the central, exalted message of genesis, and then ups the ante (as a gambling addict) by debauching and debasing the iliad faster than a neocon can debase a dollar to fund the perpetual warfare/welfare state. to top it all off, bennet ignores the most-decorated war veteran of all time in his “book of fanboy manginas.”

    completely absent from bennet’s book is the awesome work of the jews in genesis:

    14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

    15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

    in the classical, judeo-christian, chivalric context, a man would man up as he would be guaranteed a non-asscocked, chaste woman who be shamed out of not acting on and serving every gina tingle and butt tingle. instead of serving her butt and gina tingles, a woman would be expected to serve god, man, and family. for this, she would be honored in a civilized context, and she would realize her greater mythology as a mother, wife, and grandmother, instead of an asscocked, aging spinster with cats, working to expand the fed’s debt alongside her ass.

    completely absent from bennet’s book is the divine RAGE of ACHILLES–the very center and circumference of homer’s iliad. the first word of the iliad is RAGE, as achilles is robbed of his prize and property by his commander; and so, his anger ignited, achilles quits the greek army in the first showdown between man and state. zeus sides with achilles, exalting the Natural Law that John Locke and Thomas Jefferson would someday exalt in their respective poetry–the very same Natural Law that Moses exalted when he rebelled against the corrupt Pharoah–the Natural Law that William Bennet detests in all his blundering ignorance regarding the monetary system which robs the common man and places future generations in debt to send today’s best and brightest to die on foreign shores in foreign wars. achilles rages as he reasons, “if i’m the one fighting, doing all the work, why are you–the king and his william bennett vegas cronies who never ‘buckle on armor’ getting all the rewards?” indeed, so might a marine wonder these days, if he’s taking all the risks for a few hundred dollars a month, why does bill bennet get to sit back home in vegas, gambling millions away while ballooning up like a big old blimp of debauched, foul hot air? so it is that bill bennet is working for the fiat bankers in all his blustering, bloating books, which serve far more to debauch and desecrate–to contort and confuse–than they do to exalt and enlighten. why isn’t bill bennet telling all the army-wives to “woman up” and stop with the buttcocking adultery, and serve their men with loyalty as Yahweh commands them to, and as Penelope does in Homer’s Odyssey? It’s because bennet is well-paid in fiat dollar to hate on homer, the bible, and the honorable serviceman like ron paul, while bennett himself never served in any branch of the armed forces. CNN rewards him for his supreme ignorance of the spirit on the Great Books and Classics, which he makes his arrogance.

    finally, bill bennet, who “never buckled on armor nor suited up for battle” in the words of achilles, also ignores the most-decorated general of our own era–the noble Smedley Butler:

    [quote]
    “War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small ‘inside’ group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.”
    In another often cited quote from the book Butler says:
    I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.
    [/quote] –http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket –War Is a Racket is the title of two works, a speech and a booklet, by retired United States Marine Corps Major General and two time Medal of Honor recipient Smedley D. Butler. In them, Butler frankly discusses from his experience as a career military officer how business interests commercially benefit from warfare.

    Compare warrior Smedley’s words to those of Achilles, who also questions the utility of war for the heroic soul:

    [quote]
    Ulysses, noble son of Laertes, I should give you formal notice plainly and in all fixity of purpose that there be no more of this cajoling, from whatsoever quarter it may come. Him do I hate even as the gates of hell who says one thing while he hides another in his heart; therefore I will say what I mean. I will be appeased neither by Agamemnon son of Atreus nor by any other of the Danaans, for I see that I have no thanks for all my fighting. He that fights fares no better than he that does not; coward and hero are held in equal honour, and death deals like measure to him who works and him who is idle. I have taken nothing by all my hardships- with my life ever in my hand; as a bird when she has found a morsel takes it to her nestlings, and herself fares hardly, even so man a long night have I been wakeful, and many a bloody battle have I waged by day against those who were fighting for their women. With my ships I have taken twelve cities, and eleven round about Troy have I stormed with my men by land; I took great store of wealth from every one of them, but I gave all up to Agamemnon son of Atreus. He stayed where he was by his ships, yet of what came to him he gave little, and kept much himself.
    [/quote]

    And so you see why the gambling, warmongering, chicken-hawk, mysandric, soulless Bennett is calling upon men to man up while debauching and deconstructing their heritage–it is because, at the fiat baneker’s behest, he needs the men to take all the risk, while bennet and the fiat bankers get all the rewards, celebrating their conquest of other men’s future wives with the famous buttocker and secretive taper of butthext tucker max rhymes with goldman sax, who the weekly standard casts as a six-foot tall hero, repeating the butthexer’s lies, while ignoring the true, selfless heroism of those Achilles and Smedley Butlers fighting and dying on foreign shores in foreign fiat wars.

    In his later years, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “They all fall off, one by one, until one is left with Virgil and Homer, and perhaps Homer alone.” Jefferson advocated the gold standard and railed against central banks. Jefferson penned the Declaration of Independence. And so you can see that William Bennett is a Judas, selling out Jefferson, Virgil, and Homer, all for a few fiat dollars and short-lived fame. Nay–he is worse than Judas, as at least Judas was paid in Silver, while William Bennet is paid in fiat debt for his soulless, ignorant debauchery, which he gambles away as sure as tomorrow is a new day.

    lzoozozolzozozz

    GKCHESTERON? MACK PUA? OPUS? GO ahead, try to stick your tiny churchians cockas into my bunghole now, for all to see.

    Go ahead, make my day.

    lzozozozozozoz

  119. Frank says:

    Yet the guy in the cubical next to me never even finished college. One of my coworkers we’re not sure if he finished high school. Yet the former is considered a peer by most and the later is considered one of the best programmers on the floor. It’s lovely to be in a place where HR’s job is to keep the rest of the company’s HR off your ass so you can do your job (including hiring talented people regardless of their credentials).

    Herbn, That’s freaking awesome, bro. There needs to be more businesses like that out there.

  120. Frank says:

    Slargtarg:

    [from the article]: For example, the gender imbalance has led many educated women to marry much younger men. These men are game because they prefer to have a wife who is older and more economically successful over a wife who is younger and less able to provide financial stability. The women, in turn, get a young, virile spouse.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

    Oh yes, I definitely prefer a woman past her prime with a higher social status than me, just as she would prefer to have a boy toy with a lower social/economic status than her that she can show off to her friends at cocktail parties. It all makes sense now!

  121. GT66 says:

    @They Call Me Tom says: “I still find it amazing that a warthog like Dworkin ever had credibility speaking to women. […] Dworkins aren’t what women aspire to be… so where did here credibility come from with feminists?”

    Simple: she hated men. That’s good enough to join the feminists. That brings a scene from Monty Python’s “The Life of Brian” to mind:

    BRIAN: Oh, dead sure. I hate the Romans already.

    REG: Listen. If you wanted to join the P.F.J., you’d have to really hate the Romans.

    BRIAN: I do!

    REG: Oh, yeah? How much?

    BRIAN: A lot!

    REG: Right. You’re in.

  122. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    churchians rant and rage against the GREAT BOOKS
    churchians call the words of Jesus Christ NOISE
    churchians attack and castigate those who exalt in THE GREAT BOOKS FOR MEN
    churchians exalt buttcocking over God and the Gospels
    churchians call the GOSPELS a FIREHOSE OF NOISE
    churchians teach that Jesus came to ABOLISH THE LAW
    even though Jesus stated that HE CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW.

    and then churchians briefly look up
    and wonder why their churches are failing
    why their families are disintegrating
    why their wive’s buttholiozlzozozo are so sore
    shrug their shoulders
    and they dive right back
    into the MACK PUA
    buttcockingz
    and persecuting and railing against the
    GBFM GREAT BOOKS FOR MEN
    which could save
    the culture, currency, church, university, and family.

  123. deti says:

    In addition to “The Graduate”, I’d also recommend “The Last American Virgin”. It’s a movie from the early 1980s which makes it appear dated, but the story is timeless. It doesn’t pull any punches and doesn’t have a happy romcom ending. I’d recommend watching the last 10 minutes of the film and the closing credits.

    Essentlally the beta male protagonist pursues the love of his high school life and prepares a lovely date, only to meet up with her at a party to see her hooking up with his best friend. She turns and gives our beta hero a knowing glance; his friend gives a sheepish look. The protagonist walks out to his car. Roll closing credits over his silent crying as he drives away.

    That’s how unrequited affection really is for the high school and college beta.

  124. Martian Bachelor says:

    @ukfred

    I can’t go so far as your first quote – ever since I discovered Connemara, well, Jameson’s tastes horrible and I can’t understand how I was ever able to drink it; unfortunately it’s often the only Irish selection available at most of the smaller bars in this part of the US, and is even considered on the premium side of things.

    We’re no longer a nation of whiskey drinkers. Somewhere I read that per capita consumption of spirits was a full three times higher back at the time of the founding of the Republic. However, Jefferson was very keen on French wine, and cut it 50% with H2O to stretch his supply as it was difficult to come by.

  125. “And a SWUG — a female Yalie defined by a “don’t-give-a-fuck” or “DGAF” attitude — should be the modern young feminist ideal.”

    –Such unattainable visions of splendor! Such lofty goals! I suppose the continued pursuit of this ideal won’t leave much time for the starving children in Africa.

    “There be some have an over-early ripeness in their years, which fadeth betimes [i.e., early]. These are, first, such as have brittle wits, the edge whereof is soon turned; such as was Hermogenes the rhetorician, whose books are exceeding subtle; who afterwards waxed stupid.”
    Bacon, “Essays”, Of Youth and Age

  126. greyghost says:

    DetiThe Last American Virgin is the most realistic view of beta life ever made. In fact it could be titled “the american marriage. Withy the last seen with some family law judge scolding him as a loser and dead beat and what he needs to pay. As she drives off with his kids and new gina tingler.

  127. Tam the Bam says:

    Martian, I believe Jeffo paid his servants partially in whiskey. Certainly the Irish Master Carpenter who did the interiors at Monticello, James Dinsmore (and presumably his Hemmings apprentice), enjoyed the odd dram.
    “The whiskey of Aug. 30. is out, so 3 1/2 galls. have lasted Dinsmore & Richardson 31. days which is 1.8 of a gill, or near half a pint a day each, costing at present 6d.”
    Doesn’t seem to have hindered his work.

    I used to adore Glenmorangie but they changed the makeup somehow about ’77, when it became too popular. It became noticeably lighter in colour, and a tiny bit sweeter. Running younger, rawer casks into the bonded stuff at bottling, or some sly trick like that, or newer sherry-casks brought in to expand the stock to meet demand? Somebody here will likely know. It’s bugged me for decades, far far more than any lost girlfriend lol.

    A very good blend that I have trained the boys to acquire as a no-brainer, all-purpose anniversary gift to me is “Bailie Nicol Jarvie”, the B.N.J. (most cheaper blends are a bit samey and cloying).
    One that I’ve not had for a long while is a Campbeltown single malt, “Longrow” 14y.o. Delish! All the Campbeltown whiskies are very much to my taste, more than the Speyside even.
    Orkney “Scapa” is viking firewater. It has its place, but ..
    The Isles style is a bit too overcranked for my effete sensibilities, even though I love the Longrow, after a while it’s like licking a kipper. If I wanted to do that I’d go to a bar and pick up the barmaid.
    “Te Bheag” and “Caol Ila” are my choice in that regard.

    Some Japanese whisky is astonishingly good, better than most run of the mill Scotch.
    French “whisky” (oh yes! tremble, ye hielan’ loons, it does exist) is a foul abomination.
    Best used to worm a valued dog, by direct suppository.

  128. lavazza1891 says:

    This wikipedia article covers the most important aspects of cocktails.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fine_Art_of_Mixing_Drinks

  129. Ton says:

    Martian, when folks mention my drinking, my stock reply is I drink no more then peers of 1770. You know the guys who wrote the declaration of independence, the constitution, rights of man.

    The best part is the deer in the headlights response. I come from a long line of bootleggers. With stories about booze and american history passed down. Most of the founding fathers were in the booze business and paying folks in whiskey was common.

  130. tbc says:

    hey dal… i need to send you an email about something.. how can i do that?

  131. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    there is no way for neoconths to profit off of marriage holy matrimony
    there is no way to profit off sex in the sanctity of marriage
    and so they had to destroy marriage
    and deconstruct the GBFM
    to profit off of
    women working for neococnths corporations selling subprime loans in
    short skirts
    transferring wealth via sexual harrasment discrimation lawsuitsz
    publishing and promoting secteiev tapings of buttehxtig storiesz
    porn se x secy sexy outside marriage enablesz porn
    match.com snatch.com dating marketplace $$$$$$
    the vast expansion of the welfare state via which women are promised alpha fuckzzkz
    whiel the state must seize hardworking beta buckz to grow a world
    of drugged up dumbed down problem bastardz chirldrenz lzlzozo
    entire new english departmentz cenetred aorund genederz and money transferz
    the divorce lawyer regime cartel
    the state social worker family helper profiteerz
    the judges lawyers of divorce decline debuachery who hate
    the law of moses
    almost as much as
    the churchians do
    zllzlzozozozozolzozozo

  132. Trying to cut down on my weekend manosphere time for pursuit of other intellectual goals, but I would highly recommend every man create a reading list. I’ve worked on mine, and feel solid in it, though do add books to it occasionally and pepper some ‘lighter’ modern writing during the day during commutes etc.

    But GBFM’s is a great start.

    So far, besides some of the moderns I’ve read, I’m through Iliad and Odyssey, halfway through Aeneid. They open your eyes to what men have been in the past as well as simply…. electrifying, your thinking process.

    The list I put together also is largely in the historical order it was written, as I want to experience for myself how the human thought process, viewing of, and interaction with the world has affected history and how we came to where we are today. It will make you stand out as a man at any age – I already have people telling me I’m crazy for my goal, but it’s a good way to DHV and also quickly weed out quality men and women from those that aren’t – they should at least appreciate or be impressed by you; though the best will engage you in discussion.

    Here’s the last post I’ve done on my reading list. Slightly outdated, but has 90% of it. Only missing a few GBFM suggested on this thread and the ‘light’ modern reading I do.

    http://stagedreality.wordpress.com/2013/02/09/updates-on-the-reading-list/

  133. js says:

    “Being married was different. I thought that I was in love at the time. . . . . Things didn’t work out. My family was real religious growing up any way. Being around religion and having religion in my life has been there ever since I was a kid. As I grew up, I just had a different take on life and different thoughts about things. Don’t get me wrong, I still believe in God and things like that. I still have a religious part to my life. But I also believe that I should be able to do what I want. As long as I’m not harming anybody, robbing any banks or doing anything against the law, I should be able to be happy with what I do with my life.”

    http://www.miami.com/allie-haze-talks-about-balancing-relationship-her-adult-film-career-article

  134. Ton says:

    Are the stoicism on the reading list? I cannot recall, but Meditations is a must read

  135. Meditations is definitely on mine. After Aeneid I’m probably going to read Pluto, Aristotle, then Meditations. I might throw in a few of the well known Greek plays – I know I need to read part of the Oedipus series besides the one the Feminists love and dear lord if I ever see another butchered version of Lysistrata…..

  136. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    I would also definitely love to add Cicero’s De Officiis !! Cicero was also put to death by the churchians of his own day for being anti-buttehxttx!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Officiis

    .and brave he surely cannot possibly be that counts pain the supreme evil, nor temperate he that holds pleasure (butthext zlzooz) to be the supreme good. (No man can be brave who thinks pain the greatest evil; nor temperate, who considers pleasure the highest good.) (Latin: fortis vero dolorem summum malum iudicans aut temperans voluptatem summum bonum statuens esse certe nullo modo potest) (I, 5)

    Let us remember that justice must be observed even to the lowest (which would take away the noecocnthz abortionz lzozozoozo). (Latin: Meminerimus autem etiam adversus infimos iustitiam esse servandam) (I, 41)

    It is the function of justice not to do wrong to one’s fellow-men (butthetxing their future wivesz lzozozol); of considerateness, not to wound their feelings; and in this the essence of propriety is best seen. (Justice consists in doing no injury to men; decency in giving them no offense.) (Latin: Iustitiae partes sunt non violare homines, verecundiae non offendere, in quo maxime vis perspicitur decori) (I, 99)

  137. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    “But GBFM’s is a great start.

    So far, besides some of the moderns I’ve read, I’m through Iliad and Odyssey, halfway through Aeneid. They open your eyes to what men have been in the past as well as simply…. electrifying, your thinking process.”

    Yes, even if you just read and reread Shakespeare (Hamlet), Homer (lombardo & Fagles translations), and the Bible (Genesis, Exodus and Gospels (Matthew)) over and over, you would be far closer to becoming a Man than by buttcocking like a buttcocker and taing it in sectret and lying about your height like Tucker Max rhymes with Goldman Sax, whom the neococnths sell to us as the very pinnacle of Manhood.

    A great thing about reading the Great Books is that you will come to see that the mark of a man is not his ability to lie and buttcock, like the churchians teach, but it is about living and dying for Honor.

  138. Johnycomelately says:

    “Older successful women going for much younger less successful spouses is not going to work out the same way as when the genders are reversed.”

    In Australia we had a vehicle insurance campaign by AAMI that effectively was based on sex tourism by middle aged Western Women going to South East Asia and getting their kicks with the young studs. It was a raging success.

    http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/television/rhonda-and-ketut-from-aamis-car-insurance-commercial-are-a-facebook-hit/story-e6frfmyi-1226450000947

    There is an ardent attempt by the media to normalize the older woman younger man meme.

  139. I just received a newsletter from W.L. Craig, a christian apologist. He made the following observation regarding relationships between men and women. Tempting as it may be to comment on some elements of what he has said I’ll let his observation speak for itself.

    “One overwhelming impression of these engagements is the way in which the intellectual defense of Christian faith attracts men. Both at Texas A&M and again at Miami every single student who got up to ask a question was a guy! I wondered if the girls are just shy. But then I remembered a lengthy clip Jan and I watched of cast members of Downton Abbey doing a Q&A with an audience in New York. Almost every person who came to the microphone at that event was a woman! It wasn’t until late into the evening that a man finally asked a question, which was remarked by all the cast members. Why the difference between that session and the ones I experienced?—simply because the Downton Abbey program is highly relational, which is more appealing to women, whereas my talks were principally intellectually oriented, which is more appealing to men.

    Churches have difficulty attracting men, and the church is becoming increasingly feminized. I believe that apologetics is a key to attracting large numbers of men (as well as women) to church and to Christ. By presenting rational arguments and historical evidences for the truth of the Gospel, by appealing to the mind as well as the heart, we can bring a great influx of men into the Kingdom. I’m so pleased that the church in Canada seems to be awakening to this challenge! I’m convinced that we have the opportunity to revolutionize Western Christianity by reclaiming our intellectual heritage. “

  140. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    “Churches have difficulty attracting men, and the church is becoming increasingly feminized. I believe that apologetics is a key to attracting large numbers of men (as well as women) to church and to Christ. ”

    Well, as evidenced here, churchian men detest quoting the Bible and the Great Books for Men. And thus, men are no longer attracted to their church wherein men are persecuted, lambasted, and impugned for seeking to exalt the nobler angels of their souls via the words of Jesus, Moses, Homer–via the exalted GBFM.

    churchians rant and rage against the GREAT BOOKS
    churchians call the words of Jesus Christ NOISE
    churchians accuse those who quote the GREAT BOOKS of being SATAN
    churchians attack and castigate those who exalt in THE GREAT BOOKS FOR MEN
    churchians exalt buttcocking over God and the Gospels
    churchians call the GOSPELS a FIREHOSE OF NOISE
    churchians teach that Jesus came to ABOLISH THE LAW
    even though Jesus stated that HE CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW.
    when one lists Homer, Moses, Jesus, Shakespeare, and Milton
    churchians accuse them of being america-centric capitalists
    it are not women
    but the buttcocking peacocking churchians
    who have destroyed
    the church
    by robbing it of their Father’s soul
    found in
    The Great Books for Men
    so they could falsely teach that Jesus
    sanctifies
    buttcockingz zlzozozoz
    lzozozozozozoozoz

  141. anon says:

    Someone want to explain to me how marrying/entering an LTR with a “reformed” slut is any different form being cuckolded?

    Also, having trouble feeling sorry for these women when they do more damage to the men around them than they do to themselves. THEY never have to live in their cars or go to jail for being involuntarily poor or get thrown to the wolves by a false police report. They even get a beta husband to rip off!

  142. ballista74 says:

    Thus far I have been encouraging my 13-year-old son to go on to college and earn at least a bachelors degree for two purposes:

    FWIW, the advice I’d give now after being on the other end of college is to get into something that’s a stable trade that can never be made obsolescent (by lack of demand or external actions of others) as the first step (6-12 months worth), then from there go do the college thing with the child (if he/she has a dream to chase after that the degree will support, not just for the sake of the degree) using the “stable trade” to pay for it. Then if the degree doesn’t pan out into reality, or if there’s a layoff, the “stable trade” is always there to fall back on.

  143. Ton says:

    Well Leap, I’d push Meditations to the #1 slot. It’s had that big of an impact on my life. Second only to the Bible. For my money, if a man only reads two books it should be the Bible and Meditations . Three books, add the Book of Chivalry. 4 books, add the Iliad. 5, read Cicero.

    I saw the Way of Men on your list. That a good book. I think it’s a great book for other men.

    What I like most about Aristotle, Socrates Plato etc is they were men. Stood in the shield wall, great thinkers on many subjects etc For the most part, I cannot tolerate what passes as intellectuals for the last couple of generations. soft men, with soft hands and soft lives, utterly devoid of strength and masculine fire.

  144. Edge says:

    @Dalrock

    There is a “Christian” girl I know and slept with sometime back. Hell, my friend and I slept with her and her slew of friends over the course of several months.

    Long story short, she ended up marrying some Christian guy who was very religious. While she went to Church, he actually practiced. She just spoke the words as required yet obviously didn’t adhere to them since she was fvking me and other men.

    So she ended up sleeping around with several men before marrying this guy, who is actually pretty cool and a genuinely good guy. I’ve only met him a few times, but he is just the sort of guy that the world needs a lot more of.

    Thus, the problem. He doesn’t know it, but she was gang-banging a couple of guys from a different race while they were together, before marriage. Turns out, she never stopped after they were married. She used to send me racy pictures of her and want to hookup with me as well, but I wasn’t interested.

    She kept right on gang banging these two guys, and sure enough, ended up getting pregant. Now she had a bi-racial baby, and of course to hide it, she had to tell her man that she was raped and this guy is stuck raising the child. No doubt he probably thinks this is some test from God and how he is a good man for caring for this child, all the while not realizing that this is just his wife using the hypergamy to get the alpha seed and the beta to provide for it.

    I have this strong desire to tell this poor guy what she is doing to him and how she has lied, but I don’t know how to do it and I am afraid that despite my efforts to help him, he will just white-knight through it and deny that she could ever do this.

    The only evidence I have on my side is that she claims to have been raped in the parking lot of her gym in February, which of course makes no sense because first of all, the gym is on a busy street with no place to “rape”, and secondly, who is going to rape someone outside in February?

    But, as we all know, when we want to hide from the truth, we tell ourselves some crazy things and I recognize the strong possibility that he will blind himself to the reality of the situation and end up raising this other man’s child, and quite possibly the child of other men as well.

    My question to you is, how would you go about making this man aware of what happened and her true nature so that he can walk away now? What is the best way to open this man’s eyes?

  145. minuteman says:

    Another great book for men is “Of Human Bondage” by Somerset Maugham.

  146. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    a question i had for the churchians:

    there are no sectrely taped buttehxting of women without the woman’s knowledge in the iliad and the odyssey, which show the heroic, noble, exalted forms of men.

    so why all the hate for homer?

    right now your future potential wives are being buttcocked and dedouled in the contemporary bestselling litertaure, and yet all your rage is directed at the honorable, noble, just Homer.

    also, as you and your brother’s future wives are being buttcocked, why do you label those who quote jesus as satan, while giving the buttcockers a free pass?

    what is wrong with you people?

    is it any wonder real men have run away from the churchian churches, which persecute all that is good and noble in men, while celebrating buttcocking and sectrely taped buttcocking sessions, seeking to serve neither god nor man, but only butt and gina tingelzozolozlzo?

  147. Buck says:

    Johnycomelately says:
    April 13, 2013 at 11:11 pm
    “There is an ardent attempt by the media to normalize the older woman younger man meme.”
    And this trend can be summed up in two words….effortless pussy!
    Guys, being adaptive and quick on their feet see the target rich environment of older career girls with their huge ego and fat bank account. I have a certain relative who fits this catagory. She drives 30 miles into the city to clean his apartment, cook for him, bangs his brains out and then he shuffles her out the door.

  148. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer.

    over the past several posts on this blog we have witnessed the crux of the cause of the decline in faith and family–the massive, seething churchain rage and h8 that is directed at those who celebrate the great books and classics which includes the Bible.

    when the decline of western culture is studied, the butthexting churchians trying to warp christ to sanctify their buttcockings, will be front and center. they h8 the glorious words of jesus christ, and that is why the churchian labels His Words a “firehose of noise” while accusing those who quote Jesus as being Satan, while giving the buttcokerz a free pass.

    watch the churchians rage against thomas edison and thomas paine, as they rage against Jesus, calling Jesus’s words “noise,” and labeling those quote Jesus as Satan:

    Thomas Edison: Tom Paine has almost no influence on present-day thinking in the United States because he is unknown to the average citizen. Perhaps I might say right here that this is a national loss and a deplorable lack of understanding concerning the man who first proposed and first wrote those impressive words, ‘the United States of America.’ But it is hardly strange. Paine’s teachings have been debarred from schools everywhere and his views of life misrepresented until his memory is hidden in shadows, or he is looked upon as of unsound mind. We never had a sounder intelligence in this Republic. He was the equal of Washington in making American liberty possible. Where Washington performed Paine devised and wrote. The deeds of one in the Weld were matched by the deeds of the other with his pen. –The Philosophy of Thomas Paine, 1925

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer:
    Ludwig von Mises: The essential characteristic of Western civilization that distinguishes it from the arrested and petrified civilizations of the East was and is its concern for freedom from the state. The history of the West, from the age of the Greek polis down to the present-day resistance to socialism, is essentially the history of the fight for liberty against the encroachments of the officeholders.

    (So you can see why the Churchians rage against the Greeks, while also calling the words of Jesus “noise” and labeling those who quote JEsus as “Satan”).

    Cicero: Nescire autem quid ante quam natus sis acciderit, id est semper esse puerum. Quid enim est aetas hominis, nisi ea memoria rerum veterum cum superiorum aetate contexitur? (Not to know what happened before you were born is to be a child forever. For what is the time of a man, except it be interwoven with that memory of ancient things of a superior age?)

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer:
    John Adams: I should as soon think of closing all my window-shutters to enable me to see, as of banishing the classics to improve Republican ideas.

    Thomas Edison: I love great music and art, but I think ‘cubist’ songs and paintings are hideous.

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer:
    Goethe: (Homer) was the most fruitful gardens of the kingdom of literature. (. . . Goethe thought profoundly about Homer. In the great congregation of Homer-enthusiasts he is perhaps the most striking in so far as he dared to compose Homeric poetry, something which, according to the theorists, should have been impossible.)
    —Homer in German Classicism: Goethe, Friedrich Schlegel, Holderlin and Schelling, by JOACHM WOHLLEBEN

    John Adams: Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer:
    John Adams (in a letter to his son John Quincy Adams):
    I want to have you upon Demosthenes. The plainer Authors you may learn yourself at any time. I absolutely insist upon it, that you begin upon Demosthenes and Cicero. I will not be put by. You may learn Greek from Demosthenes and Homer as well as Isocrates and Lucian—and Latin from Virgil and Cicero as well as from Phaedrus and Nepos. What should be the Cause of Aversion to Demosthenes in the World I know not, unless it is because his sentiments are wise and grand, and he teaches no frivolities. If there is no other Way, I will take you home and teach you Demosthenes and Homer myself.

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer:
    Albert Einstein: Somebody who reads only newspapers and at best books of contemporary authors looks to me like an extremely near-sighted person who scorns eyeglasses. He is completely dependent on the prejudices and fashions of his times, since he never gets to see or hear anything else. And what a person thinks on his own without being stimulated by the thoughts and experiences of other people is even in the best case rather paltry and monotonous. There are only a few enlightened people with a lucid mind and style and with good taste within a century. What has been preserved of their work belongs among the most precious possessions of mankind. We owe it to a few writers of antiquity that the people of the Middle Ages could slowly extricate themselves from the superstitions and ignorance that had darkened life for more than half a milleniun. –Ideas and Opinions

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer and Shakespeare:
    Vincent Van Gogh: But my God, how beautiful Shakespeare is, who else is as mysterious as he is; his language and method are like a brush trembling with excitement and ecstasy. But one must learn to read, just as one must learn to see and learn to live.

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer:
    Percy Bysshe Shelley: The poems of Homer and his contemporaries were the delight of infant Greece; they were the elements of that social system which is the column upon which all succeeding civilization has reposed. Homer embodied the ideal perfection of his age in human character; nor can we doubt that those who read his verses were awakened to an ambition of becoming like to Achilles, Hector, and Ulysses: the truth and beauty of friendship, patriotism, and persevering devotion to an object, were unveiled to the depths in these immortal creations: the sentiments of the auditors must have been refined and enlarged by a sympathy with such great and lovely impersonations, until from admiring they imitated, and from imitation they identified themselves with the objects of their admiration. Percy Bysshe Shelley (1792-1822): Defence of Poetry, 1819

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer:
    Alexander Pope: Our author’s work is a wild paradise, where, if we cannot see all the beauties so distinctly as in an ordered garden, it is only because the number of them is infinitely greater. It is like a copious nursery, which contains the seeds and first productions of every kind, out of which those who followed him have but selected some particular plants, each according to his fancy, to cultivate and beautify. If some things are too luxuriant it is owing to the richness of the soil; and if others are not arrived to perfection or maturity, it is only because they are overrun and oppressed by those of a stronger nature.
    Alexander Pope on The Iliad, 1727.

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer:
    Aristotle: As, in the serious style, Homer is pre-eminent among poets, for he alone combined dramatic form with excellence of imitation so he too first laid down the main lines of comedy, by dramatizing the ludicrous instead of writing personal satire. . . Unity of plot does not, as some persons think, consist in the unity of the hero. For infinitely various are the incidents in one man’s life which cannot be reduced to unity; and so, too, there are many actions of one man out of which we cannot make one action. Hence the error, as it appears, of all poets who have composed a Heracleid, a Theseid, or other poems of the kind. They imagine that as Heracles was one man, the story of Heracles must also be a unity. But Homer, as in all else he is of surpassing merit, here too- whether from art or natural genius—seems to have happily discerned the truth. In composing the Odyssey he did not include all the adventures of Odysseus- such as his wound on Parnassus, or his feigned madness at the mustering of the host- incidents between which there was no necessary or probable connection: but he made the Odyssey, and likewise the Iliad, to center round an action that in our sense of the word is one. As therefore,
    in the other imitative arts, the imitation is one when the object imitated is one, so the plot, being an imitation of an action, must imitate one action and that a whole, the structural union of the parts being such that, if any one of them is displaced or removed, the whole will be disjointed and disturbed. For a thing whose presence or absence makes no visible difference, is not an organic part of the whole. –Aristotle’s Poetics

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer and Einstein:
    Albert Einstein: The highest principles for our aspirations and judgements are given to us in the Jewish-Christian religious tradition. It is a very high goal which, with our weak powers, we can reach only very inadequately, but which gives a sure foundation to our aspir ations and valuations. If one were to take that goal out of out of its religious form and look merely at its purely human side, one might state it perhaps thus: free and responsible development of the individual, so that he may place his powers freely and gladly in the service of all mankind. … it is only to the individual that a soul is given. And the high destiny of the individual is to serve rather than to rule, or to impose himself in any otherway. –Ideas and Opinions

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer:
    Joseph Campbell: If you’re not going to go in there and enjoy it and read, you’re not going to find the myths. If somebody just reads the newspaper every morning. If somebody just reads the newspaper every morning—if that’s his only reading, and then he gets Newsweek or something else at the end of the week—he’s not getting it. You’ve got to read. –The Hero’s Journey p. 191

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer and Plato:
    John Adams: These are what are called revolution principles. They are the first principles of Aristotle and Plato, of Livy and Cicero, of Sidney, Harrington, and Locke—the principles of nature and eternal reason.

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer:

    Henry David Thoreau: The student may read Homer or Aeschylus in the Greek without danger of dissipation or luxuriousness, for it implies that he in some measure emulate their heroes, and consecrate morning hours to their pages. The heroic books, even if printed in the character of our mother tongue, will always be in a language dead to degenerate times; and we must laboriously seek the meaning of each word and line, conjecturing a larger sense than common use permits out of what wisdom and valor and generosity we have. The modern cheap and fertile press, with all its translations, has done little to bring us nearer to the heroic writers of antiquity. They seem as solitary, and the letter in which they are printed as rare and curious, as ever. It is worth the expense of youthful days and costly hours, if you learn only some words of an ancient language, which are raised out of the trivialness of the street, to be perpetual suggestions and provocations. It is not in vain that the farmer remembers and repeats the few Latin words which he has heard. Men sometimes speak as if the study of the classics would at length make way for more modern and practical studies; but the adventurous student will always study classics, in whatever language they may be written and however ancient they may be. For what are the classics but the noblest recorded thoughts of man? They are the only oracles which are not decayed, and there are such answers to the most modern inquiry in them as Delphi and Dodona never gave. We might as well omit to study Nature because she is old. To read well, that is, to read true books in a true spirit, is a noble exercise, and one that will task the reader more than any exercise which the customs of the day esteem. It requires a training such as the athletes underwent, the steady intention almost of the whole life to this object. Books must be read as deliberately and reservedly as they were written. It is not enough even to be able to speak the language of that nation by which they are written, for there is a memorable interval between the spoken and the written language, the language heard and the language read. The one is commonly transitory, a sound, a tongue, a dialect merely, almost brutish, and we learn it unconsciously, like the brutes, of our mothers. . . No wonder that Alexander carried the Iliad with him on his expeditions in a precious casket. A written word is the choicest of relics. It is something at once more intimate with us and more universal than any other work of art. It is the work of art nearest to life itself. It may be translated into every language, and not only be read but actually breathed from all human lips;- not be represented on canvas or in marble only, but be carved out of the breath of life itself. The symbol of an ancient man’s thought becomes a modern man’s speech. Two thousand summers have imparted to the monuments of Grecian literature, as to her marbles, only a maturer golden and autumnal tint, for they have carried their own serene and celestial atmosphere into all lands to protect them against the corrosion of time. Books are the treasured wealth of the world and the fit inheritance of generations and nations. Books, the oldest and the best, stand naturally and rightfully on the shelves of every cottage. They have no cause of their own to plead, but while they enlighten and sustain the reader his common sense will not refuse them. Their authors are a natural and irresistible aristocracy in every society, and, more than kings or emperors, exert an influence on mankind. When the illiterate and perhaps scornful trader has earned by enterprise and industry his coveted leisure and independence, and is admitted to the circles of wealth and fashion, he turns inevitably at last to those still higher but yet inaccessible circles of intellect and genius, and is sensible only of the imperfection of his culture and the vanity and insufficiency of all his riches, and further proves his good sense by the pains which be takes to secure for his children that intellectual culture whose want he so keenly feels; and thus it is that he becomes the founder of a family. . . The works of the great poets have never yet been read by mankind, for only great poets can read them. They have only been read as the multitude read the stars, at most astrologically, not astronomically. Most men have learned to read to serve a paltry convenience, as they have learned to cipher in order to keep accounts and not be cheated in trade; but of reading as a noble intellectual exercise they know little or nothing; yet this only is reading, in a high sense, not that which lulls us as a luxury and suffers the nobler faculties to sleep the while, but what we have to stand on tip-toe to read and devote our most alert and wakeful hours to. –Walden

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer:

    John Keats: Oft in one wide expanse had I been told
    That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne;
    Yet never did I breathe its pure serene
    Till I heard Chapman speak out loud and bold:
    Then felt I like some watcher of the skies
    When a new planet swims into his ken.
    —On First Looking into Chapman’s Homer, 1817.

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer:

    Dante: Homer, the sovereign poet. –Divina Commedia

    Victor Hugo: Homer is one of the men of genius who solve that fine problem of art—the finest of all, perhaps—truly to depict humanity by the enlargement of man: that is, to generate the real in the ideal. –William Shakespeare, Part II

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer and Shakespeare:

    Thomas Jefferson: A lively and lasting sense of filial duty is more effectually impressed on the mind of a son or daughter by reading King Lear, than by all the dry volumes of ethics, and divinity, that ever were written.

    Dante: Let there be no doubt in the mind of the man who has benefited from the common heritage but does not trouble to contribute to the common good that he is failing sadly in his duty. –Monarchia 3

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer:

    1887 NYT on Abrahm Lincoln: My friend went down and found the tall, smooth-shaved lawyer, to whose face, he says, no engravings or portraits do justice in its wonderful and expressive power. He was reading Homer’s Iliad, in a translation, of course. Lincoln held the book out at arm’s length after a word or two had passed, when he laughed and said: “I have made up my mind that I have got to read Homer’s Iliad,” and the quaint look which has become historical spread over his face. “You know a man might as well be out of the world as not read Homer’s Iliad.” –The Philadelphia Press, Abraham Lincoln: How He Read the Iliad, and His Fondness for Shakespeare, March 9th, 1887,

    let us study, my friends, why the churchians hate Jesus and Homer and Shakespeare:

    Thomas Jefferson: Shakespeare must be singled out by one who wishes to learn the full powers of the English language.

    Thomas Jefferson: I read one or two newspapers a week, but with reluctance give even that time from Tacitus and Homer and so much agreeable reading. . . I feel a much greater interest in knowing what has happened two or three thousand years ago than in what is now passing.

    Dr. Carl J. Richards (in The Founders and The Classics, Greece, Rome, and the American Enlightenment): Through the use of Roman analogies, William Fairfax, Washington’s mentor and surrogate father, impressed upon him “that the greatest of all achievements was, through honorable deeds, to win the applause of one’s countrymen.” . . It was customary for guests at Belvoir, the Fairfax estate, to sign their names in a register, followed by a favorite Latin quotation. . . Although the founders always endorsed classical education on utilitarian grounds, they defined “utility” in the broadest possible manner. In addition to the writing models, knowledge, and ideas which the classics furnished, the founders contended that they were an indispensible training in virtue. John Adams lectured John Quincy: “I wish to hear of your beginning Sallust, who is one of the most polished and perfect of the Roman Historians, every Period of whom, and I had almost said every Syllable and every Letter, is worth Studying. In company with Sallust, Cicero, Tacitus, and Livy, you will learn Wisdom and Virtue. You will see them represented with all the Charms which Language and Imagination can exhibit, and Vice and Folly painted in all their Deformity and Horror. You will ever remember that all the End of study is to make you a good Man and a useful Citizen. . . The connection between the classics and virtue was deeply engrained and implicitly understood. In 1778 Adams wrote regarding Arthur Lee’s sons (including Richard Henry Lee): “Their father had given them all excellent classical educations, and they were all virtuous men.” To Adams, the causal relationship between the first fact and the second was too obvious to require explanation. Such a relationship could be assumed, since the stated purpose of most classical literature, including works of history, had always been to inculcate morality. Since the inculcation of a fixed moral code is not the expressed purpose of most modern literature (perhaps because there is no longer a consenus concerning morality), modern people would be perplexed by the statement, “They all study American history, and they are all virtous people.” But to the founders, the connection between classical training and virtue was clear.” –C. J. Richard, The Founders and the Classics, Greece, Rome, and the American Enlightenment, p. 37

    Socrates honored Homer in his final speech: “Someone will say: And are you not ashamed, Socrates, of a course of life which is likely to bring you to an untimely end? To him I may fairly answer: There you are mistaken: a man who is good for anything ought not to calculate the chance of living or dying; he ought only to consider whether in doing anything he is doing right or wrong – acting the part of a good man or of a bad. Whereas, according to your view, the heroes who fell at Troy were not good for much, and the son of Thetis above all, who altogether despised danger in comparison with disgrace; and when his goddess mother said to him, in his eagerness to slay Hector, that if he avenged his companion Patroclus, and slew Hector, he would die himself – “Fate,” as she said, “waits upon you next after Hector”; he, hearing this, utterly despised danger and death, and instead of fearing them, feared rather to live in dishonor, and not to avenge his friend. “Let me die next,” he replies, “and be avenged of my enemy, rather than abide here by the beaked ships, a scorn and a burden of the earth.” Had Achilles any thought of death and danger? For wherever a man’s place is, whether the place which he has chosen or that in which he has been placed by a commander, there he ought to remain in the hour of danger; he should not think of death or of anything, but of disgrace. And this, O men of Athens, is a true saying.” –Socrates’ Apology

    And so we begin to see why the freedom-hating, liberty-hating, man-hatng, buttocking-loving chruchians hate the GREAT BOOKS FOR MEN.

  149. Tam the Bam says:

    @js :
    Shorter Allie :- “I still believe in God and things like that … But I also believe that I should be able to do what I want. “
    LOL did I really just see a hamsteer stampede go by?

  150. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    a great thing about the comments sections of these blogs are their relative permanence.

    one can see how the churchians are incessantly trying to buttcock those who celebrate the GReat Books for Men, labeling them Satan when they quote Jesus, calling Jesus’s sublme wisdom a “firehose of noise,” and forever seeking to have those who quote Homer and Jesus banned, as they consider quotes from Jesus and Homer to be “off topic” on a blog devoted to Christianity and Men. So we see just how successful the bankers have been in bernankifiying the little churchians and teaching them to H8 the Gr8s. lzozzlzozoozoz

    I know I will be labeled Satan for quoting Jesus by the churchians, but yet I must, as Jesus addressed the churchian buttcockerz and h8rsz:

    Lament over Jerusalem
    (Luke 13:31-35)
    37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

    Jesus taught us what the Churchians would do when you quoted Homer or Jesus to the Churchians: “”Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.” (Matthew 7:6).”

    And after tearing you to pieces, they go back to their buttcockingz zlzlzozozoozozoz

  151. Georgia Boy says:

    First world rich urban elite privileged liberal arts white girl problems. Somebody remind me why I care about these Sex and the City/Girls in training?

    I can’t help but notice that none of the stuff I’ve read about this so far, indicates they are changing their taste in men as a result of any of this. They keep accepting the same d-bag frat boys, but now it’s different because they’re more jaded and ironic about it or something. Yet another lesson to betas who think any of this is ever going to change, it won’t, it’s either get wise to the game or it never gets better.

  152. They Call Me Tom says:

    @Martian: I like Jameson’s and Jack Daniels… so if there is better whiskey to be enjoyed, in all sincerity, I’d like to find out about it. I’ll always keep Jameson’s around of course, as a gateway for friends and their female company to eventually enjoy better whiskeys. I’ve always said Jameson’s is sweeter and not as strong a flavor as Jack Daniels, so it kind of serves the purpose that Hefeweizen’s and White Ales for introducing women to better beers. I prefer Stouts and Porters, but for women that turn green at the thought of beer, it’s good to have some Hefeweizens or White Ales handy.

  153. Blind comment

    Is anyone else saturated with these women, every flipping 4 years of college age transitions, attempting to define themselves, all the narcissism, and the populace lapping up the vomit like dogs returned. The content is irrelevant. Its simply look at me Im agent “oso special”

  154. @ GBFM

    The hatred of liberals, churchians, leftists – whatever you want to call them – have for a classical education comes down to one thing:

    A fear of competition.

    They understand that, when their lives and problems are viewed in light of thousands of years of human history, their lives become almost insignificant.

    They realize the classics have survived the winnowing ‘evolution’ of culture and intelligent thought by dwarfing the thoughts of those that have come later.

    They fear this because they believe that an individual is the most important thing in their lives, and that an individual requires the protection of an institution. They don’t understand that it is the opposite – that it is goals, morals, honor, and civilization that are the most important, but those goals require the protection of individuals who hold deep within themselves those same values as well as a pride for those values.

    Ironically, the latter creates stronger, more fulfilled individuals that enjoy their time on this world more. Thus through submission to a goal, religion, moral code, honor, etc; the individual finds freedom. Just as Jesus submitted to the Lord, the Church to Jesus, The husband to the Church, the Wife to the Husband, the child to the parents. Within the submission and the rules are a protected lands of lush promise, where values can grow to fruition and the fruits of our labors are harvested to grow again. Outside is disease of the mind, body, and soul.

  155. Matthew King says:

    “Started with a bang, ended with a whimper” is one of the great essay titles of all time. It sums up the plight of the western woman at the turn of the century. When they reach a certain age, every girl of this generation will try to claim it for their “wild” but ultimately tragic autobiography. Double entendre. Precisely descriptive. Pure poetry.

  156. Ton says:

    Can you imagine the modern church embracing genuine physical ,intellectual and moral masculine strength as its celebrated in the classics? Can you imagine the modern church embracing ancient honor codes among men, or celebrating masculine drive, will power and sense of purpose? Especially if those men used those abilities for their own glory and pride….

    Me either. Face it, the modern church hates masculinity to the same degree the godless feminist and is no place for a man of any stripe, let alone a mighty man of God.

  157. Matthew King says:

    All the hatred for Raisa Bruner’s appearance is off-key. She’s coming in from the cold, right? She is testifying against Hannah Rosin’s (who is ugly to the bone, and always has been) interpretation of the hook-up culture as empowering, citing herself as an example. Whether she is coming late to this realization is immaterial. She is a witness to truth.

    If Bruner wrecked herself, and her deteriorated appearance is evidence of that, then we welcome her witness. Piling on is counterproductive.

    But for SWUGs like Chloe and I [sic], that’s not quite how it pans out. Whatever empowerment we’re supposed to be deriving from this version of the feminist moment is looking pretty thin on the ground.

    This is a sign she has begun suffering into wisdom. She is not the enemy, she is a potential convert. And the bitter beta gloating at her comeuppance — the fuel of the manosphere — is not just un-Christian, it’s an indication of a vengeance-minded, petty little man. My decisive disagreement with this community is how foolishly it handles the reformed women who are potentially our most powerful witnesses and allies, preferring eternal revenge against them instead, well past the Christian directive, and even past the fair-sounding “eye for an eye” law which it overturned. We are the faith of the Prodigal Son.

    The cover picture is so unappealing that it makes me wonder whether it was chosen deliberately, a subtext screaming “washed up” despite all the transparent attempts to rationalize and glorify that kind of life. Every other picture of her is significantly more attractive. Her features seem distorted by a Grand Guignol photoshop filter.

    Matt

  158. @ EDGE:
    Tell him. Do the right thing in this horrible case. He deserves to know. Try to gather all the evidence you can. Perhaps others who will add to your testimony. But you must inform this man. Give him the opportunity to get a lawyer and divorce. A judge might let him off the legal hook due to his slutty wife’s abusive behavior.

  159. donalgraeme says:

    “But you must inform this man. Give him the opportunity to get a lawyer and divorce. A judge might let him off the legal hook due to his slutty wife’s abusive behavior.”

    Telling him is important, because she is likely to divorce him at some point. He needs to be prepared. But don’t count on a judge “letting him off the hook.” It doesn’t work that way anymore.

  160. Anonymous Reader says:

    empathologism, bear in mind that these are women who grew up while the “self esteem” movement was really everywhere. These are women who, from the age of 5, may have sung:

    “I am special, I am special,
    Look at me, look at me…”

    And not in secret, but as part of a class, led by a teacher. There are people who have been told all their lives how special they are, and that belief surely jars against reality from time to time .Cognitive dissonance is not easily solved unless a person has a reason to do so. And there’s no reason for the modern, entitled, self-centered, over aged spoiled brat female to change at all.

    Or to summarize: No, empathologism, it ain’t just you…

  161. jack says:

    How many men have these “SWUG” type girls had sex with by the end of their senior year? I’m curious in a nauseated stomach type way.

  162. an observer says:

    Empath,

    I tire of the ceaseless preening, self entitlement and self indulgent peacocking from todays strong, independent grrrls.

    I have nothing but contempt, and many of them sense it. Its probably a gamma reaction, i know.

  163. Good. Lets rant on this awhile, because it deserves to be ranted upon. Look over at HUS and see the product of early days of singing I Am Special. I think I missed it by a couple years, but not by much. Its alive and well, as an older parent of a 7 year old girl, its damn near impossible to have a conversation with the other parents in her classes.

    Dont forget, the boys are also special…..er…..until they aren’t. Think how screwed up that is. Both ways. No one is special. One group gets told they are, then told they are criminals in training. They are all holding hands singing they are special, boy girl boy girl…..then by about 4th or 5th grade, its grrrrllll power! Throw rocks at boys, all that. This makes the girls even MORE special. then they go away to college and find one hard lesson, academically, they are middling among other……girls…..this is upsetting. Most of the girls are able to get laid. So…whats to do?

    Some cook up new acronyms and write slush like this for mass consumption by others looking for something silly to get behind. Notice how the article gleefully describes the spread of the acronym, the clubby nature of it taking hold as yet another girl merit badge.

    God is my witness, I am so incredibly thankful that my 22 yr old has regular girl/young woman issues, and they do not include stuff like this narcissistic bullshit.

  164. @ Ton
    “Me either. Face it, the modern church hates masculinity to the same degree the godless feminist and is no place for a man of any stripe, let alone a mighty man of God.”

    The voice of the church will change at the same rate as that of real men such as you describe, the women that support them weight against the feminist women of congregations. Men will have to show these values through actions, donations, and vocalized opinions.

    I have no hope for it being a quick change seeing as even red pill men drag their feet in the mud (along with the potential of their mind) when it comes to having a classical education. Outside of the manosphere it’s even worse.

    As a 27 year old male, I am almost always openly questioned and told that I’m crazy for reading, let alone enjoying, the classics. I was impressed and proud that the pastor of the church I grew up at near Evergreen, Colorado not only commended me but arranged an hour to discuss how I’ve grown as a man, what has helped me, and what my thoughts on society are when I visited Colorado last winter.

    I also know he read a link to the study on homosexuals raising children I shared a few threads ago. There’s hope for a few churches out there, just not all.

  165. Mark Minter says:

    I read the original article in the Yale paper. The female writer hinted that Rosin had come up and interviewed them, probably with a predetermined theme, and even though misgivings were expressed Rosin came out with the piece as released. I find it disingenuous that Rosin interviews at Yale, with both women and men, who have employment futures, even those with the least employable of degrees, that dwarf the students at 90% of the other colleges. Would the girl from Colorado State, Texas State, Cal State Santa Barbara, Arizona State, all colleges notorious as “fun” party schools and probably extensive hookup culture, far the same 10 years down the line in her life options and not need the economic benefit of a husband?

    Or even more, would the girl who will not graduate from college, easily the majority of women, do well for herself in the long run to assume that Rosin is correct that in your 20s, boys should “be on the side”, and she should eschew attempting to enter long term relationships because men are a drag on your options, an obligation that limits?

    And does Rosin do women justice to women, when statistics are emerging that a sound and secure marriage, despite all claims otherwise, is the key single determining factor in being able to both leap across the growing chasm of income inequality, and raise children that could leap it, that families, those with both a mother and father, continue to be the incubator of success, the preparatory school of good habits that allow those to capitalize on opportunity?

    And the use of “empowering” is exactly a literary device.

    My analogy would be if I owned a new car, a Mercedes C class, very low miles, and I agreed to loan it out, for free, with the only cost being gasoline, perhaps some upkeep while the person was using it Then I, too, would probably wake up every morning to tons of messages. Should I then feel “empowered” or “foolish”? I was giving away something of value for literally nothing. People would be allowed to have the benefit without the cost or commitment, especially those would never have the capacity for either.

    Who wouldn’t wish to “drive” a car like that with no commitment to the actual “ownership” of it, especially those who couldn’t actually afford, in the long term, the “cost” of it.

    But as the mileage added up, after a point, the number of messages would lessen. And the number of people that both, “could” and “would” assume ownership of it, would dwindle. Sure, there might be people that would “use” it, but have no desire or capacity to “own” it. Usually those that knew of the “history” of the use, that many “drivers” had it for some time, and did what they wished with it, with no concern for the long term affects of that “use”, would be foolish enough to “purchase” it. No one really trusts a former “rental” car even though this one was not actually a “rental”, but it did have the same “usage” patterns. It might turn out to be a good car for them, trustworthy, functional, but the smart purchaser would probably not wish to take the risk, especially when that “purchaser” had the capacity for other options, especially with the quantity of “lower mileage” cars to be had.

    So in the end, after 10 years of this sort of “use”, my car would fall off the “blue book”, and would be considered without value. Sure. someone desperate for a car, or someone that was seduced by the “former” glory of it, the hood ornament, the appearance it might convey to others. But those car purchasers with true options, would seek a car with lower miles, with more “respectable” usage patterns.

    Of course all men know that women are not cars. You don’t buy women. You lease them with a contract that provides for a severe penalty for early termination. And the lease can be terminated early at anytime without the intent or consent of the lessee and entirely at the discretion of the lessor.

  166. imnobody00 says:

    @Tam the Bam

    Holy Hamster, who art in Heaven….

  167. Ton says:

    Red pill men are aware there are problems, Leap. Many find a way to cope like game working to keep a marriage rolling, or upping alpha, whatever the he’ll folks want to call it. Few men do anything these days that require any of the traits I listed. How many men over come real hardship on the regular? Empty belly, no sleeps for days, grinding physical work while injured type hardship. Or face real immanent danger to life or limb on the regular? Most men the worse they face is two a day’s in high school football or basic training. With out those things, maximum masculine potential will not be reached

    I started reading the classics when I was 23-24. Admiral James Stockdale gave a lecture to a military class I was attending and mentioned how reading the Stoics helped him survive being a POW. The man’s presence was enormous despite being 70. Real, inner personal power. I read what he read and went from there. Your reading will pay dividends in all manner of ways. Some predictable, some not.

  168. They Call Me Tom says:

    What’s interesting to me, with regards to the Church… my father was educated to become a priest, and then he met my mom near the end of high school. My mom initially had custody of me and my siblings, but my dad ended up with custody a year later. The divorce estranged my father from the catholic church, but not from Christianity. He’s the one that raised me with respect for living by a code of honor. How is it that my father educated for the most part by the Church growing up was able to teach me and my siblings a code of honor, but the Church that educated him no longer can?

  169. an observer says:

    Empath,

    Ssm’s stories about scouting were bad enough. I will expand your category, though: most people are impossible to talk to.

    Their ‘thinking’ consists of sound bites, populist slogans, a slice of guilt and a healthy sense of entitlement.

    Most people no longer think at all. The progressives have won and Gatto got it right: schooling results in an eternal child that never has to grow up.
    http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm

    We are supposed to mature and put away childish things. No wonder it is so hard to talk to people. They are children in adult bodies.

  170. They Call Me Tom says:

    p.s. I’ve done two-a-days, an architecture five-year degree (I know a variety of ways to cope with sleep deprivation as a result), and kept the bills paid through the slowdown of construction over the last three years, that’s as much opportunity as I’ve had to prove myself… but it’s something me and the friends often talk about… we’re made for slaying dragons, with a shortage of dragons to hone ourselves against.

  171. anon says:

    “All the hatred for Raisa Bruner’s appearance is off-key. She’s coming in from the cold, right? She is testifying against Hannah Rosin’s (who is ugly to the bone, and always has been) interpretation of the hook-up culture as empowering, citing herself as an example. Whether she is coming late to this realization is immaterial. She is a witness to truth.

    If Bruner wrecked herself, and her deteriorated appearance is evidence of that, then we welcome her witness. Piling on is counterproductive.”

    I thinl they’re really trying to tear apart Hanna Rosin for calling that women beautiful (and seeting up other women for failure using that example.) Can’t say I have any patience for reformed whores though, too little, too late, and they always think they’re entitled to the kind of do-overs that even boys don’t get.

  172. Edge says:

    @Vascularity,

    I already intend to tell him. But I want to do it in a manner that maximizes the chances of saving him from the current fate is drifting toward. In doing so, I have to recognize that in all likelihood he believes that he is facing some sort of trial and that if he fails or walks away from it, then he is a horrible person.

    It short, I feel like I am up against his “faith”. Not that I want him to stop being a Christian, I just want him to recognize that she has done this to him, not God.

    Add to that, for various reasons I need to inform him anonymously. And unfortunately I do not have any evidence other than her completely flimsy story. But I have resolved to tell him this, I am just hoping that Dalrock could have some ideas to deliver this information with the maximum chance to save him from her.

  173. Hyperion says:

    You can find almost all of the great books (that are out of copyright) available for free from the following websites:

    Project Gutenberg
    http://www.gutenberg.org
    The Project Gutenberg website offers books that were published before 1923, and therefore have an expired copyright allowing them to offer the book for free. Most books are available in a variety of formats (Kindle, ePub, HTML, etc)

    Amazon.com
    http://www.amazon.com
    The Amazon.com website also offers for free books whose copyrights have expired. Note that
    you do not need a Kindle device (the hardware) to read books in Kindle format. You can download the free app and read books in Kindle format on your smartphone or PC. The Kindle reading App is available here:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=sa_menu_karl?ie=UTF8&docId=1000493771

    Overdrive.com and Local Library
    You can also check your local library’s website for eBooks (often offered in various formats).
    eBook via the library.

    The Overdrive website lets you search for digital content. It seems to be the delivery system for your local library’s digital content.
    http://www.overdrive.com/

    You can also access other types of media such as audiobooks or video through Project Gutenberg and Overdrive.

    Below are links to the great books. All are free unless otherwise noted.

    0. THE BIBLE
    KJV
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/7999
    (many versions available, of course)

    1. Homer’s Iliad
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3059

    or try the 1873 version which has images
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/22382

    2. Homer’s Odyssey
    Stories from the Odyssey by H. L. Havell and Homer (some versions have images)
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/13725

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Odyssey-ebook/dp/B002RKST0Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365796844&sr=1-1&keywords=Odyssey

    3. Exodus & Ecclesiastes & The Psalms
    Exodus
    (The Bible, King James version, Book 2: Exodus)
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8002

    Ecclesiastes
    (The Bible, King James version, Book 21: Ecclesiastes)
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8021

    Psalms
    (The Bible, King James version, Book 19: Psalms)
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8019

    4. Virgil’s Aeneid
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/22456

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Aeneid-English-ebook/dp/B0083ZC6Y2/ref=sr_1_3?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365797180&sr=1-3&keywords=aeneid

    5. Socrates’ Apology
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1656

    http://www.amazon.com/Apology-ebook/dp/B0082S32T8/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365797242&sr=1-1&keywords=Apology

    6. The Book of Matthew & Jefferson’s Bible
    The Bible, King James version, Book 40: Matthew
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8040

    Jefferson’s Bible
    Free PDF Version – The Jefferson Bible – The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, Extracted From The Four Gospels, Originally Compiled by Thomas Jefferson. Edited by Charles M. Province United Christ Church Ministry
    http://pattonhq.com/links/uccministry/jeffbible.pdf

    Amazon does not offer a free version of The Jefferson Bible, but has several versions available for purchase
    For 99 cents
    http://www.amazon.com/The-Jefferson-Bible-ebook/dp/B00BQVVQTQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365797530&sr=1-1&keywords=the+jefferson+bible

    For $1.86
    http://www.amazon.com/The-Jefferson-Bible-ebook/dp/B0028AEFS8/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1365797428&sr=1-3-catcorr

    7. Plato’s Republic
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/150

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Republic-ebook/dp/B0082SV87G/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365798064&sr=1-1&keywords=plato+republic

    8. Seneca’s Letters from a Stoic
    I could not find a free version. Amazon does sell an illustrated version for 99 cents.

    Letters from a Stoic: Seneca [Illustrated]
    http://www.amazon.com/Letters-Stoic-Seneca-Illustrated-ebook/dp/B0067X6C1U/ref=sr_1_2?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365798364&sr=1-2&keywords=letters+from+a+stoic

    You can download a SAMPLE of it from free by clicking the Send Sample Now button on the right side of the page.

    9. Aristotle’s Poetics
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1974

    http://www.amazon.com/Poetics-English-ebook/dp/B0082UQ964/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365799049&sr=1-1&keywords=Poetics

    10. Dante’s Inferno
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/41537

    http://www.amazon.com/Divine-Comedy-Alighieri-Inferno-ebook/dp/B00AQM9T4A/ref=sr_1_4?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365799197&sr=1-4&keywords=inferno

    also – Divine Comedy, Cary’s Translation,
    Complete
    http://www.amazon.com/Divine-Comedy-Translation-Complete-ebook/dp/B004TPEQHA/ref=sr_1_5?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365799197&sr=1-5&keywords=inferno

    11. The Declaration of Independence
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/16780

    http://www.amazon.com/Declaration-Independence-United-America-ebook/dp/B004TQJR82/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365799258&sr=1-1&keywords=Declaration+of+Independence

    12. The Constitution
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/5

    http://www.amazon.com/The-United-States-Constitution-ebook/dp/B004TPCQWC/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365990051&sr=1-1&keywords=Constitution

    13. John Milton’s Paradise Lost
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/20

    http://www.amazon.com/Paradise-Lost-ebook/dp/B004UJSYO6/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365990104&sr=1-1&keywords=Paradise+Lost

    14. Shakespeare’s Hamlet
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1524

    Note: Reviewers claim the free version from Amazon is so full of errors from scanning that it is unreadable. If you want to try it anyway:

    http://www.amazon.com/Tragedie-Hamlet-Prince-Denmark-ebook/dp/B0084CAROU/ref=sr_1_13?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365990298&sr=1-13&keywords=Hamlet

    15. Newton’s Principia
    I could not find this for free from either site, even under its English title: THE MATHEMATICAL
    PRINCIPLES OF NATURAL PHILOSOPHY. Amazon has a paid version for $1.99 that comes bundled with
    LIFE OF SIR ISAAC NEWTON.

    http://www.amazon.com/MATHEMATICAL-PRINCIPLES-PHILOSOPHY-Illustrated-ebook/dp/B00BKG0AYO/ref=sr_1_6?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365990841&sr=1-6

    You can download a SAMPLE of it from free by clicking the Send Sample Now button on the right
    side of the page.

    You can also view a scanned copy (and save it as a PDF) from Google Books here:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=KaAIAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=THE+MATHEMATICAL+PRINCIPLES+OF+NATURAL+PHILOSOPHY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-G1rUfTgIITu2AX984CQCw&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAQ

    16. Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations and Theory of Moral Sentiments
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3300

    http://www.amazon.com/Inquiry-Nature-Causes-Nations-ebook/dp/B00847CE6O/ref=sr_1_3?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365991059&sr=1-3&keywords=Wealth+of+Nations

    17. Henry David Thoreau’s Walden
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/205

    http://www.amazon.com/Walden-ebook/dp/B0083ZBUXU/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365991289&sr=1-1&keywords=walden

    18. Mark Twain’s Huckleberry Finn (& all of his work)
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/76

    http://www.amazon.com/Adventures-Huckleberry-Sawyers-Comrade-ebook/dp/B004UJISMY/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365991326&sr=1-1&keywords=Huckleberry+Finn

    and also Tom Sawyer
    http://www.amazon.com/The-Adventures-Tom-Sawyer-ebook/dp/B004UJTG6Q/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365991474&sr=1-1&keywords=Tom+Sawyer

    If you want even more Tom Sawyer, Mark Twain also wrote Tom Sawyer, Detective
    http://www.amazon.com/Tom-Sawyer-Detective-ebook/dp/B002RKSZYE/ref=sr_1_5?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365991474&sr=1-5&keywords=Tom+Sawyer

    and, Tom Sawyer Abroad
    http://www.amazon.com/Tom-Sawyer-Abroad-ebook/dp/B0084BNDCO/ref=sr_1_12?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365991474&sr=1-12&keywords=Tom+Sawyer

    20. Ludwig von Mises’ A Theory of Money and Credit
    You can read this for free on the mises.org website. (Scroll down a bit to find to Table of Contents, then jump to the desired chapter)
    http://mises.org/books/Theory_Money_Credit/Contents.aspx

    or download the PDF
    http://mises.org/books/tmc.pdf

    21. F.A. Hayek’s The Road to Serfdom
    Couldn’t find it for free. As with the other books that are still in copyright, try you local library.

    You can PREVIEW The Road to Serfdom by:
    * Downloading a free Sample from Amazon
    (Click the Send Sample Now button to have the sample sent to you. As this book is not free, do
    NOT click the Buy Now with 1-Click button, unless you mean to buy it)
    http://www.amazon.com/Road-Serfdom-Documents—Definitive-ebook/dp/B0048EJXCKref=sr_1_1_bnp_1_kin?ie=UTF8&qid=1365997752&sr=8-1&keywords=Road+to+Serfdom

    You may be interested in a YouTube video that presents a summary of his ideas with illustrations originally published in LOOK magazine. It’s not animated and there’s no narration, just pictures that each illustrate one
    of Hayek’s points. Quite good.

    “Hayek’s ‘The Road to Serfdom’ in Five Minutes”

    22. Herman Melville’s
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2701

    http://www.amazon.com/Moby-Dick-White-Whale-ebook/dp/B004TRXX7C/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365993489&sr=1-1&keywords=moby+dick+kindle+free

    23. Einstein’s The Meaning of Relativity
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/36276

    24. Joseph Campbell’s The Hero With a Thousand Faces and The Power of Myth
    Couldn’t find these for free. Try your local library.

    You can PREVIEW The Hero With a Thousand Faces:
    * Using Google Books
    http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Hero_With_a_Thousand_Faces.html?id=I1uFuXlvFgMC

    You can PREVIEW The Power of Myth by:
    * Downloading a free Sample from Amazon
    (Click the Send Sample Now button to have the sample sent to you. As this book is not free, do
    NOT click the Buy Now with 1-Click button, unless you mean to buy it)
    http://www.amazon.com/The-Power-of-Myth-ebook/dp/B004QZACH6/ref=pd_sim_kstore_2

    * Using Google Books
    http://books.google.com/books?id=jQQdk6YszYIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Power+of+Myth&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CGprUeiJD4iv2QW9zoGYBg&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Power%20of%20Myth&f=false

    25. Ron Paul’s Revolution & End the Fed
    Couldn’t find these for free. Try your local library.

    You can PREVIEW Revolution:

    * Using Google Books
    http://books.google.com/books?id=MuATfqcjS5QC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Ron+Paul%E2%80%99s
    +Revolution&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RmprUduCAeHm2AX70oHgCQ&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA

    * Downloading a free Sample from Amazon
    (Click the Send Sample Now button to have the sample sent to you. As this book is not free, do NOT click the Buy Now with 1-Click button, unless you mean to buy it)
    http://www.amazon.com/The-Revolution-A-Manifesto-ebook/dp/B0017I1IYQ/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?
    ie=UTF8&qid=1365994368&sr=1-1

    You can PREVIEW End the Fed by:

    * Using Google Books
    http://books.google.com/books?id=s3vkxGyQ-BQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Ron+Paul%E2%80%99s
    +End+the+Fed&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kWprUf3kCoLsqQG25oDICw&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA

    * Downloading a free Sample from Amazon
    (Click the Send Sample Now button to have the sample sent to you. As this book is not free, do
    NOT click the Buy Now with 1-Click button, unless you mean to buy it)
    http://www.amazon.com/End-the-Fed-ebook/dp/B002N0ADQG/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1365994283&sr=1-1&keywords=end+the+fed

  174. Johnycomelately says:

    I love Dalrock’s appeal to the negatives of promiscuity and serial monogamy and the damage it does to women’s marriage prospects but a part of me wonders whether the women have it all that bad anyway and maybe what we are seeing is a cultural paradigm shift in women’s preferences.

    What’s not to like about having the state take care of your provisioning needs and getting sexy time with different men once in a while? Chip in a bit of child support and they’re having a good ol’ time.
    Your average Joe earning below 50k can’t compete with state provisioning and random bad boys.

    Dalrock’s message to me seems to only make sense for the UMC, where marriage is a status marker but that’s an awfully small segment of society.

  175. 8oxer says:

    Dear Anon:

    “All the hatred for Raisa Bruner’s appearance is off-key. She’s coming in from the cold, right? She is testifying against Hannah Rosin’s (who is ugly to the bone, and always has been) interpretation of the hook-up culture as empowering, citing herself as an example. Whether she is coming late to this realization is immaterial. She is a witness to truth.

    Thanks for pointing this out. This is why I have refused to comment here. She’s basically telling the raw truth to her sisters, and in so doing she’s not too far away from the message of this blog.

    I also find it silly to see the brothers and sisters slagging on her looks. Like that has some bearing on anything… (what, exactly?) She’s actually pretty attractive in the pics I’ve seen. Sure, she’s not a hard nine, but neither am I.

    There needs to be more voices talking about the vacuous hook-up culture to the younger brothers and sisters, not less.

    Regards, Boxer

  176. FuriousFerret says:

    ‘My decisive disagreement with this community is how foolishly it handles the reformed women who are potentially our most powerful witnesses and allies, preferring eternal revenge against them instead, well past the Christian directive, and even past the fair-sounding “eye for an eye” law which it overturned. We are the faith of the Prodigal Son.’

    King A is right about this.

    The vast majority guys want to twist the knife as hard as possible because the circumstances seem so unfair. I mean they get the sex with attractive people at will while at the same time causing massive amounts of pain for average men.

    The thing that gets me about the situation is that the same men that want this revenge would be probably follow the same course of hedoism if only it was available to them. If they could have a soft harem they probably would have. They simply don’t have the power and opportunity to make this an option. Look at athletes, even when they try their very best they end up screwing everything that moves because the temptation is so great when you can have effortless hot ass on tap.

    Most men are betas and they did stupid beta shit. Should they not be forgiven either? If you turn away from blue pill society, your aces in my book. Don’t really care if you were a slut or a masculine bitch. That’s in the past. There are way too few people to exclusive. The problem with these women marrying the betas is that they aren’t reformed. They made no decision to turn away from perversion they were forced into it. In their hearts they still slutty masculine controlling they simply don’t have the power to enact this.

    In essence, if a woman simply decides to become and act more feminine, then that’s a good thing. All past sins are forgiven, maybe the damage is there but in this messed up world, who cares? Every day I see these old washed up hags that act like nasty fat cranky men and it’s sickening. I don’t mind at all ugly women that are nice and some womanly class.

    I don’t care if a woman is a slut actually. I simply want to interact with same sane people. All around me are masculine fat women and wimpy feminine men except for the low class minorities who I can’t really relate to. If something simply turns these attitudes and behaviors around, I could care less what they did before.

  177. Case says:

    re: Johnycomelately 11:35 …

    “a part of me wonders whether the women have it all that bad anyway and maybe what we are seeing is a cultural paradigm shift in women’s preferences.”

    I kind of agree with this, not as a demarcation of position that I want to argue with anyone over really – not staking out an ideology, but I think JCL is making an important observation that we really should be thinking about.

    I do a lot of thinking myself about what could be undertaken to reverse or better redirect even a few of the destructive trends at work today and even among those I have the most confidence with I still have to stop myself and wonder … would success even be worth it? Because the question comes down to: is there really, (no: really) a better deal on offer for women?

    I sometimes listen to Stardusk. Actually I’m insomniac sometimes and listening to his Youtube videos totally puts me to sleep (lol all you want but I’m completely serious). I am forced to conclude, especially from some of his latest videos, that Stardusk basically has been exploited. I won’t patronize him by protesting right now that I sympathize with him for having been exploited, I hope it’s obvious without saying that I do. But … you can hear it in what he says, the way you hear it in the deeply hurt, deeply pained words of victims of any kind of violence and exploitation.

    So I say that to qualify this next statement … if you apply the soft edge that he does not, and tone down the rhetoric: he is on to something.

    And what he is one to is: what men have to offer, certainly when packaged as monogamous lifelong marriage … the ladies aren’t buying it. And they don’t look like they want to buy it or are likely to buy it.

    What he’s really saying is that basically: once given ANY chance at all, women are running for the door. They don’t seem to want lifetime monogamous marriage.

    Which is interesting coming to this site in particular. Many more PUA/game sites don’t seem interested in trying to coax women back to monogamy. MRA sites seem kind of agnostic on the point – more concerned with changing the legal context to be more fair to men. Here the tone (correct me if I’m misreading) seems all about turning back the tide and somehow restoring a marriage/monogamy ethic.

    So to JCL’s remark: let’s ask it this way. You could quote the old adage that “a woman can have the love of every many for a short time, or of one man for her entire life” and use that as a basis to propose that a better choice than vacuous hookup culture and alpha widowhood is to use her hard attractiveness assets to attract the highest value husband, reel him in and hold on.

    But what if she understand that and still says “pass”?

    Or ask yourself this. What if the biology was reversed? What if men in their 20s quickly matured into Mike Tysons or Bradley Coopers and what if women on the whole found men so attractive in this brief 10 year period that the same way Megan Fox can have her pick of male 7s and 8s and passes over them all, almost any man could have his pick of 8s and 9s, and freely takes all the sex he can get, because it is on offer?

    We’d have a lot of spoiled men adjusting their standards in their 30s and 40s, sure. But if you can have have a long string of easy hotties for 10 years … are you so sure you would trade that in for a lifetime with Misses Good-Enough?

    Again … not staking a position, just asking the question.

  178. FuriousFerret says:

    “We’d have a lot of spoiled men adjusting their standards in their 30s and 40s, sure. But if you can have have a long string of easy hotties for 10 years … are you so sure you would trade that in for a lifetime with Misses Good-Enough?”

    If I was a hot chick in America, I would live it up in my youth simply because people aged over 30 are terrible here. Almost every single old person I see is utterly disgusting. They don’t even attempt to take care of themselves and are being drugged with high carb GMO processed food.

    So you basically blow up into a land whale when your genetics can’t handle the toxic food anymore and that’s life. Might as well live it up and then you can become of these giant masculine bossy ladies that chops her hair off.

    I have a question? When did gluttony and sloth stop being sins?

  179. SlargTarg says:

    ……..what men have to offer, certainly when packaged as monogamous lifelong marriage … the ladies aren’t buying it. And they don’t look like they want to buy it or are likely to buy it.

    What he’s really saying is that basically: once given ANY chance at all, women are running for the door. They don’t seem to want lifetime monogamous marriage.

    ………

    So to JCL’s remark: let’s ask it this way. You could quote the old adage that “a woman can have the love of every many for a short time, or of one man for her entire life” and use that as a basis to propose that a better choice than vacuous hookup culture and alpha widowhood is to use her hard attractiveness assets to attract the highest value husband, reel him in and hold on.

    But what if she understand that and still says “pass”?

    What if you explained to a plantation slavemaster that by paying his slaves and treating them better that he would be rewarded with higher productivity, fewer escapees, and less chance of an uprising?

    What if he still said no, that he would rather them work in servitude for free?

    It is impossible to ignore that The “Life of Julia” is financed by 50% or more income taxation and a plethora of onerous regulations in all developed societies.

    We have talked about this extensively throughout the ‘sphere that the social contract has been torn apart and the welfare states are increasingly resorting to brute force to continue their existence.

    If the day comes that the governments can’t enforce their rules or can’t finance a sufficient bully police force, its not going to go well for the entitled women who want everything for themselves.

  180. “Thanks for pointing this out. This is why I have refused to comment here. She’s basically telling the raw truth to her sisters, and in so doing she’s not too far away from the message of this blog.”

    I also find it silly to see the brothers and sisters slagging on her looks. Like that has some bearing on anything… (what, exactly?) She’s actually pretty attractive in the pics I’ve seen. Sure, she’s not a hard nine, but neither am I.

    There needs to be more voices talking about the vacuous hook-up culture to the younger brothers and sisters, not less.”

    There’s a difference in pointing out and ripping into the consequences of her actions and then your treatment of her as a person. Condemn the sins, heal the sinner. But part of the condemnation NEEDS to be pointing at the consequences of the sins. Part of the repentance of the sinner needs to be understanding that their responsibility for repentance is not only healing their own soul but attempting to heal the damage their actions brought to other people’s souls. The best way that this is done is through such repentance as witnessing to others what they did wrong and what it meant.

    I mean, seriously. Look at how many brilliant, brilliant men within the manosphere write and find hard truths. Look at the percentage of how many of them get noticed or how large their audiences are. Then compare that to the voices of women within the manosphere. It takes far less intellectual ingenuity for them to get noticed. They serve as a fantastic package for many of the truths that men have found because they’re delightfully good at packaging multiple ideas and being a presentable, marketable face for the shattering of pretty lies. I’ll point to Girlwriteswhat, Suz, Sunshine Mary, Judgy Bitch, and Stingray as the ones I read and follow that I see this on, but I know there are more out there as well.

    There’s also the ability, if we met her in person, to give her a chance to prove herself as someone beyond what her looks tell us about her. Just because I’ve learned how to tell a woman’s past by various visual cues doesn’t mean I know her present or future – it simply gives me a good start on what I should be looking to find for determining those though. In her case I’d look to see if she still eats a majority of pasta, drinks more than two nights a week, works in a field related to her major (or has found another passion that she pursues that ALSO has a chance of paying off her education bills), and what she thoughts she has about how her religion holds the choices she’s made.

  181. donalgraeme says:

    @ Case

    “What he’s really saying is that basically: once given ANY chance at all, women are running for the door. They don’t seem to want lifetime monogamous marriage.”

    That is because lifetime monogamy is not the preferred form of female socio-sexual strategy. Rather, serial monogamy is. Lifetime monogamy was a compromise between men and imposed on women. It lasts, and lasted, only because men enforced it, through shaming tactics, legal restrictions, and yes, even violence. Once that enforcement was effectively destroyed during the sexual revolution, it was only natural for women to revert back to the behaviors they express in the state of nature.

  182. an observer says:

    “a part of me wonders whether the women have it all that bad anyway and maybe what we are seeing is a cultural paradigm shift in women’s preferences.”

    Hypergamy and feminism does the average woman few favours.

    1. It narrows her perspective on prospective partners
    2. It forces her into the workforce during her most fertile years
    3. It delays marriage until she is less attractive
    4. It wrecks her ability to pair bond after she has chosen n>1
    5. It increases her dissatisfaction with marriage and family life
    6. Her husband must deal with a highly regulated, feminised workplace
    7. She will probably outsource educating the children
    8. She will resent having to work, blaming the husband for not earning enough
    9. She is incentivised to divorce
    10. She will grow to hate her ex, blaming him for 1-9 above

    Women react to incentives, but fail badly in foreseeing cause and effect. Divorce ruins the husband financially, screws the children emotionally, and often leads to a shorter lived second marriage.

    The average woman would be better off under a patriarchy. But by preferring to luve in rebellion, they again demonstrate their preference for ignorance over wisdom.

  183. an observer says:

    “What’s not to like about having the state take care of your provisioning needs and getting sexy time with different men once in a while? Chip in a bit of child support and they’re having a good ol’ time.”

    Marriage appeals to women as a status marker. It is a progression along the feminist career path, after the merit badge, and before the “i’m not haaaapppy” divorce.

    I disagree that they’re having a good time. The typically strident protestations of the lonely, midlife divorcees are hardly evidence of a good time.

    Face it, women who pursue happiness will never be happy.

    And being dependent on the state is hardly the definition of “strong, independent woman.”

  184. As a summary of observer’s work…the average woman is less happy today than 40 years ago.

    Also—I’ve started a blog. It’s at http://calculatedbravery.wordpress.com. I’d be honored to receive anyone’s feedback.

  185. an observer says:

    Dg,

    With thanks to the modern crop of insightful pastors and teachers, we know that women are the more spiritual sex, are naturally inclined to mature without the glass ceiling of patriarchal oppression, and that the current marriage and relationship malaise can be totally attributed to a lack of sound male leadership.

    Thank goodness.

  186. Opus says:

    Having re-read Dalrock’s piece above what strikes me is this – from one of the quotes; this is Raisa Brunner writing: ‘The previous year Roisin myself and a friend plopped down on a patch of grass in the Law School’s courtyard to make sense of what was going in at Yale with relationship, men and sex’.

    There seems to be a sub-text to the paragraph: That Law School is all about taking it easy – posing, in other words. Few women (or men) even should they aspire to Law are likely to be accepted into as prestigious an Institution as Yale, yet what does Brunner achieve? (apart from sitting around), merely acting like an unpaid whore – and then she seeks sympathy for that! and it is interesting the Roisin praises Brunner’s Figure and Beauty – she’s OK, I suppose, but nothing to write home about – rather than her intellectual nous; can one imagine men writing about each other in that manner? When I was a Law Student, we worked non-stop – it was very demanding – and we certainly did not spend our time discussing relationships or whether promiscuity (we should be so lucky!) was ruining us. In my class: of the four females, two were very attractive and entirely chaste, one was married to a fellow class-mate (at eighteen or nineteen!) and the least attractive of the quartet made up for her lack of looks with great wit and character. I never heard of the slightest scandal concerning any of them – and gossip spreads like wild-fire.

    Brunner is plain (though not gross) and she is using her legal smarts to raise her SMV. What she appears to have done is give it away for nothing, and now (digging a bigger hole) is parading herself for the sympathy vote. Doubtless some hapless Beta will man-up.

  187. Case says:

    I disagree that they’re having a good time. The typically strident protestations of the lonely, midlife divorcees are hardly evidence of a good time. disagree that they’re having a good time. The typically strident protestations of the lonely, midlife divorcees are hardly evidence of a good time.donalgraeme,
    If I read you right you are agreeing entirely with the spirit of yhe question I’m asking.

    @an observer, many would appear to not be entirely happy with their choices.
    Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t make the same choices given a second shot and even better informed consent.

    We have social security because a large fraction of people just can’t or won’t save. No reason to argue discipline or virtue its just a fact and we’ve decided we can’t abide starving elderly so social security is a fact of life.

    I wonder if the psychology is similar. I wonder if no amount of foreknowledge and informed consent would suffice to make a dint in the choices of more than 50%, if even that.

    We talk

  188. Case says:

    Sorry folks last comment was a smartphone texting fail.

    Don’t bother trying to make sense of it just cough it up a loss.

  189. Luke says:

    FuriousFerret said:
    “I don’t care if a woman is a slut actually.”

    So, either you don’t intend to have (legitimate) children, or you don’t care either way if your wife repeatedly cuckolds you?

  190. I already intend to tell him. But I want to do it in a manner that maximizes the chances of saving him from the current fate is drifting toward. In doing so, I have to recognize that in all likelihood he believes that he is facing some sort of trial and that if he fails or walks away from it, then he is a horrible person.

    It short, I feel like I am up against his “faith”. Not that I want him to stop being a Christian, I just want him to recognize that she has done this to him, not God.

    Yes, it’s easy for someone who is emotionally stuck in a bad relationship to rationalize it as a test from God, as if settling down with an abusive basket case is just the sacrifice He asks the person to make. It’s tricky, because God does ask us to sacrifice of ourselves, and we can become holier by complying.

    I think the key is sin — God never wants us to sin or to be complicit in someone else’s sin, so a legitimate sacrifice can’t require that. If caring for a woman and her child enables her to continue sleeping around and lying to people, then God can’t be asking him to do that. Maybe if you focus on that part of it — whatever sins of hers he knows about, and the dysfunction that continuing the relationship would foster — you can get through to him.

    Good luck; it’s not an easy task. When I was a desperate beta hanging onto a bad woman, a frustrated friend tried to talk some sense into me, but it didn’t work. I had to get there on my own. It’s worth telling him, though; at least when I finally came to my senses, I couldn’t blame anyone else for keeping the truth from me.

  191. I also find it silly to see the brothers and sisters slagging on her looks.

    We haven’t actually been talking about her looks; we’ve been talking about the effect of her lifestyle on her looks. Hence the comparison of pre-college and post-college pictures, and the focus on her pose, dress, and the look in her eyes more than her underlying looks. She was a very pretty girl, but she squandered it on the hedonistic, have-it-all lifestyle currently preached by feminists, and she’s spoiling what she has left with the Classy Bitch pose. If she put away the cocktail and the cleavage and the attitude, she could be very pretty again, though it’s questionable whether the thousand-cock stare can be fully erased.

    Aside from that, she’s put herself up as an object lesson in modern feminism and relationships, so she’s fair game for criticism in that arena. It’s great that she seems to be starting to glimpse the emperor’s nakedness; but in the end, her article just tries to put a different color of robe on him. Maybe someday she’ll actually get it, but in the meantime, women need to have her contradictions pointed out. She’s trying to sell a new-and-improved feminism, and they need to know it’s just another version of the lie. If being somewhat cruel to her — showing some tough love — will wake some women up and make them think, “Whoa, I don’t want people talking about me that way when I’m 23,” that’s a good thing.

    Ridicule can be a powerful force for change, and there are few things a woman can understand better than ridicule for another woman’s SMV. Those two pictures of her, and male reactions to them, could reach more women than whole books full of facts and abstractions.

  192. GKChesteron says:

    @GB4M,

    With these “noise” quotes it is a possibility me thinks you mean me. So let me point it out for you again. I called _your_ work noise. I also notice little in the way of taking back the slurs on Lewis that were so easily proved wrong. You aren’t dumb, but you are something of a, “loud gong and clashing cymbal.” Oh dear, I quoted the bible without introducing more noise.

  193. GKChesteron says:

    @8Boxer,

    I also find it silly to see the brothers and sisters slagging on her looks.

    I mostly agree with Cail here. Remember those looks are given by God. Like any “talent” we can enrich it or perform actions which reduce what is given. I really like Slumlord/SocialPathologists comments on “desoulment” and I think that is the crux of what we are commenting on. She is giving up pieces of herself that she will never get back in this world. Hopefully, she’ll come to enough of a realization of her wrongs that she can be “remade” in the next. However, not pointing out the problem makes that near impossible.

    Now that being said, there is little in the way of “seasoned with salt” running around here.

  194. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    Actually GK Chesterton, you called the beautiful words of Jesus Christ “noise.”

    It is because of weak-willed, sniping, denying, contorting churchians like you that Western Civilization is dying. Rather than reading Homer and sharing Homeric wisdom, you prefer to relentlessy attack me and Jesus.

    “GKChesteron says:
    April 15, 2013 at 10:43 am
    @GB4M,

    With these “noise” quotes it is a possibility me thinks you mean me. So let me point it out for you again. I called _your_ work noise. I also notice little in the way of taking back the slurs on Lewis that were so easily proved wrong. You aren’t dumb, but you are something of a, “loud gong and clashing cymbal.” Oh dear, I quoted the bible without introducing more noise.”

  195. Tom says:

    Have your son get a 4-year degree. Do AP classes while in high-school (to save the cost of doing them at college). Take Junior College classes as a Senior (but make sure they are transferable). Many places won’t hire unless one can check the “4-year-degree” box. Stupid, but it’s how HR people (who haven’t a clue how to tell a good resume from bad), filter.

    In HS, make sure to take a year of psychology – there are a lot of nuts out there, and damaged people. He needs to learn how to spot them, avoid them, and where he can’t avoid them, to manage them (so they do the least damage to him).

    After that, the 4-year-college really doesn’t matter. What matters is the ability to reason, collect data, analyze data, present results and work with others. The degree will matter – get a STEM degree in anything. Remember that stuff that can be done 100% over the internet can be outsourced, but that’s not at all everything. There’s a great demand (right now!) in people who know how to manage large power-plants, for example. There was a big building/hiring wave in the 60s and 70s and those people are all retiring. Nanotechnology is coming, and you can’t design/manufacture via internet. You can do some level of teamwork via internet, but true brainstorming is hard to do that way.

    Your paperwork (degree) keeps your resume from getting thrown on the floor.
    Your technical skills get you into the job.
    Your personality skills get you the promotions.

    And learn Spanish: S. America is going to grow, and being able to speak Spanish is going to be useful at various points.

  196. Matthew King says:

    Anon wrote:

    Can’t say I have any patience for reformed whores though, too little, too late, and they always think they’re entitled to the kind of do-overs that even boys don’t get.

    That’s just the thing, and you articulate the matter well. None of us are “entitled” to “do-overs,” but we all get one anyway (including “boys”), through the mercy of the Father through His Son, Who died so that we might live despite our self-condemning mistakes.

    For “they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

    Holding a woman to account for her sins but giving space for reconciliation is the only way through this valley of the shadow of death.

    The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such. What do you say about her?” …

    Jesus looked up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

    She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again.”

    I profess The Lord Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I am a man of the Gospel According to St. John, Chapter Eight. The story that begins that section was lobbied by early Christians with your justice-above-mercy focus to have it removed. But it remains canon, and every soul has the choice to act according to The Word or to try and finagle peace within the outer darkness.

    “Can’t say I have any patience for reformed whores though.” Your patience or lack thereof is irrelevant. Luckily you won’t be used after your just deserts, because the Lord has patience enough for all. Saint Mary Magdalene, pray for us. Go, Raisa, and do not sin again.

    Matt

  197. sunshinemary says:

    But Matt, where is her repentance? She says:

    We are not any old SWUGs, I decide as I carry empty wine glasses to the sink. And we do want it all — equality and individuality, power and humor. If we label ourselves, it’s only because the language has yet to catch up. As the generations of women before us did, we’ll make sure it does.

    I agree we need to encourage women in figuring out that they’ve gone astray, but this young lady seems to believe that the problem isn’t so much that she’s gotten off the path but rather that the path hasn’t caught up to her yet…like she’s lost because she’s a trail blazer or something. That isn’t repentance.

  198. Matthew King says:

    Cail Corishev wrote:

    She was a very pretty girl, but she squandered it on the hedonistic, have-it-all lifestyle currently preached by feminists, and she’s spoiling what she has left with the Classy Bitch pose. If she put away the cocktail and the cleavage and the attitude, she could be very pretty again, though it’s questionable whether the thousand-cock stare can be fully erased.

    This is truth, but you need to go to a sales seminar. As Christians we are interested in the trajectory of her soul. The bluntness of language like “thousand-cock stare” is used for cathartic release more than it can possibly be used to urge her along a path which she has only tentatively begun contemplating the righteousness of.

    Use the language, fine. It is the punch in the face that many benumbed survivors of the sexual revolution require. But remember they survive, they are not dead, no matter how the bitter beta inside us wants to interpret the condition of their eyes. And use the language with purpose; be suspicious of your own motives and sparing in the deployment of heavy artillery.

    “[I]t’s questionable whether the thousand-cock stare can be fully erased.” Leagues above our pay grade to question that. All this attitude can do is contribute to despair and encourage easy condemnation among other, less subtle thinkers. Whether Christ’s wounds would ever heal, or whether he will eternally bear the scars of what the world did to him, our mission is the same. Our charge is to act in the literal Hope (Spes) that “he will wipe away every tear from [her] eyes,” that her body will be transfigured and risen, and that even her wounds will be glorified. So goes my prayer for her.

    Aside from that, she’s put herself up as an object lesson in modern feminism and relationships, so she’s fair game for criticism in that arena.

    Not quite. And she wrote her story in part to clarify her discomfort with Rosin’s having “put” her “up as an object lesson.”

    It’s great that she seems to be starting to glimpse the emperor’s nakedness; but…

    The “but” indicates that you only give lip service to what is the Christian’s central mission.

    … in the end, her article just tries to put a different color of robe on him. Maybe someday she’ll actually get it, but in the meantime, women need to have her contradictions pointed out. She’s trying to sell a new-and-improved feminism, and they need to know it’s just another version of the lie.

    Or, she has only recently seen the consequences of living a pernicious ideology and is struggling to articulate her discovery with a language of lies, the only language available to her.

    Ridicule can be a powerful force for change, and there are few things a woman can understand better than ridicule for another woman’s SMV. Those two pictures of her, and male reactions to them, could reach more women than whole books full of facts and abstractions.

    This would make more sense if the ridicule were directed straight to Raisa Bruner rather than the product of a self-escalating feeding frenzy driven by the (righteous) complaints constantly being rehearsed among this readership. She will never be exposed to this criticism, nor did anyone here write for her eyes. We are writing to each other.

    GKChesterton added:

    I mostly agree with Cail here. Remember those looks are given by God. Like any “talent” we can enrich it or perform actions which reduce what is given. … Hopefully, she’ll come to enough of a realization of her wrongs that she can be “remade” in the next. However, not pointing out the problem makes that near impossible.

    Absolutely correct, but also moot. The water is over the dam. All that matters now is the best way to encourage her righteous (if new) thinking and discourage the rest. An internet swarm from faceless — and therefore vicious — critics is worse than impractical. It imperils your own power of persuasion, if not your soul. There is more than one kind of ugliness.

    Don’t take this personally. You were speaking in abstractions and so I rejoin you with abstractions. In fact, I doubt either of you are capable of the brand of bitter vengefulness I’m warning against. Rather I point these things out because you empower the pettiness in others with false high-mindedness when we should be calling upon “the better angels of our nature.”

    Matt

  199. Buck says:

    @
    Matthew King says:
    April 15, 2013 at 11:22 am
    “She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again.”

    I appreciate your thoughts here….BUT….this is where many Christians lose perspective. God does forgive, Jesus does wash with the blood of the lamb….YES!!!!…THIS DOES NOT CHANGE THE PAST SIN….it did happen, and their are earthly consequences for sin!
    Choose to sin, choose to suffer!
    Jesus said go and sin no more, he didn’t put a ring on that slut and take her home to momma!
    I know lots of nice drunks, I would not let them drive a school bus. I know former drug addicts, I wouldn’t give them my bank account info. I know plenty of cads-found-Christ, I wouldn’t let them stay at my house with my wife alone.
    We Christians are called to forgive, but this doesn’t mean we check our brain at the door.
    A thousand cock stare, reformed slut, is NOT relationship material for a Christian man (any man).

  200. Matthew King says:

    sunshinemary wrote:

    But Matt, where is her repentance?

    I do not know where it is, nor can I know. I like to see signs of repentance for assurance that my work is bearing fruit. But those signs are not necessary to the mission, they were not promised to us, so they must not act as an obstacle to our holy efforts in lifting a fellow sinner out of her “near occasions of sin.”

    Although I am guided by John 8, another oft-cited maxim balances my tendency toward holy foolishness, from Matthew 10: “And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it; but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town” (13-14).

    [T]his young lady seems to believe that the problem isn’t so much that she’s gotten off the path but rather that the path hasn’t caught up to her yet…like she’s lost because she’s a trail blazer or something. That isn’t repentance.

    You may be right. I recall discussing this in a thread at your old blog about how one should treat a Christian adulteress who was abusing her husband’s propensity for forgiveness. If you are correct, I will join you in shaking the dust from my sandals and departing that house.

    But our highest duty to one another as Christians is to allow the space for another’s forgiveness. Yes, this seeming “innocence” is ripe for exploitation! Behold, he sends us “as sheep in the midst of wolves.”

    So be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.

    — Matthew 10:16

    I love my fellow Christians by being serpentine against their excessive dovishness. You love your fellow man when your innocence balances his wisdom. Ours is the God of Mercy as well as Justice. We are called to honor both together, even when our finite minds spy “contradiction.” The question becomes, which propensity are we indulging and which are we neglecting? Especially when low motives pull us sinners in wrong directions. So rejoice in fraternal correction. It is the armorer for “the breastplate of righteousness” (Eph 10:10-20).

    Matt

  201. Matthew King says:

    Buck hurled:

    Jesus said go and sin no more, he didn’t put a ring on that slut and take her home to momma!

    Nor would I advise anyone to do that either.

    We Christians are called to forgive, but this doesn’t mean we check our brain at the door.

    Wrong. Christ calls for just that. “If your eye causes you to sin…” He particularly commands us who imagine we may find salvation through our rather impressive brains to that particular kind of humility. I count myself foremost among those kind of sinners.

    A thousand cock stare, reformed slut, is NOT relationship material for a Christian man (any man).

    Work out your faith in fear and trembling, son. Mind your caps lock and categorical condemnation. There are more accurate ways to express your passion than to curse the universal salvific will and the forgiveness of Christ. If there is no hope for her, sinner, there is no hope for you.

    Do you imagine your depravity is not comparable to hers in the eyes of the Lord? I encourage you to practice the opposite, as did the saints, who considered themselves worst of all and last among many, if only for considerations of prudence: “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief” (1 Timothy 1:15).

    Now, in your excitement, don’t imagine I say this woman, or any sinner for that matter, deserves happiness in this broken plane of existence. I am saying that your drive to enforce the consequences of a person’s sin can be a blessing to the sinner by correcting her; but all too often becomes cover for the usurpation of God’s final judgment, pursued in the name of self-righteous revenge.

    Matt

  202. GKChesteron says:

    @Matt,
    Do you imagine your depravity is not comparable to hers in the eyes of the Lord?

    While we should be humble this smacks of, “we all sin,” applied poorly. It is clear from the Law of Adam onwards that God doesn’t punish all sin in the same manner. We shouldn’t think much of ourselves but we shouldn’t run to the opposite error where we assume all sin is the same.

    Your words on not being _quick_ to judge are useful, but likewise they shouldn’t be confused with a general defense of Evil. There is nothing the devil hates more than mocking we are told. As long as we defend the “true reformed sluts” we do well to carry on some mocking of those that refuse to do anything virtuous. In this case it appears she is refusing virtue. And, contra modern Churchian tendencies, we are to “be wise as serpents” and use our judgement.

  203. This is truth, but you need to go to a sales seminar.

    Were I posting on her web site, I’d use more tact. Here, though this site is open to the public, we’re pretty much preaching to the choir, so we can skip the disclaimers and save time by using blunt language that we wouldn’t use with the uninitiated.

    I think most of us here recognize the depths of our own sinfulness, and I for one wouldn’t want to stack my sins up against this woman’s. But we’re not talking about my sin or everyone’s sin; we’re talking about this specific concept she introduced of girls Gone Wild during college and becoming jaded, and then reacting by doubling-down with even heavier drinking and debasing themselves. Were I 18 and female, knowing my own susceptibility to temptation, I might have lived the same way or worse. That’s not the point, though.

    As for judging her soul: you’re right, that’s not up to us. We can only judge her words and the portrayal of herself that she’s chosen. In a more general sense, a man can’t judge the state of a woman’s immortal soul; he can only judge her fitness and compatibility to determine whether to spend time with her and possibly marry her. That gets to be a bit of a fine line, though, since spouses are supposed to sanctify each other, so a person who’s failing in sanctifying himself or herself may not contribute much in the way of sanctifying the other. So you do have to, if not judge a prospective spouse in the Final Judgment sense, at least make an educated guess about it.

  204. Buck says:

    @
    Matthew King says:
    April 15, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    2 Corinthians 6:13-15
    What hath darkness with light
    Matthew 7:6
    Do not throw pearls to swine
    Proverbs 11:22
    like a gold ring on a pigs snout

    look, no caps….

  205. L'addition says:

    I can’t help but feel that while many churchians are busy shooting themselves in their collective right foot with their inability to address the faults of women in a feminist society, there are other believers driving off potential allies by patronising them by calling them ‘son’ and using text bolding while criticisng the other for using caps (oh the irony). Effectively shooting themselves in their collective left foot.

    go forth and sin no more as ye are doing harm aswelleth.

    many men react badly to pompous voices on the web who spout forth without having proved a grounding in how the real world works vis women. You’re not providing any leadership, you’re being divisive as many just see another voice on the web wobbling on in a pompous manor disconnected from reality. It’s why I have seldom seen you gain much traction here, IMHO, despite your ability to quote the good book.

  206. L'addition says:

    (make that manner, not manor)

  207. Matthew King says:

    Hello there, cantankerous interloper. You misunderstand me and my motives. Who said my purpose was to “gain much traction here”? Those with ears will hear.

    I am not here to collect a cabinet full of “potential allies” like curios. I am suspicious of a broad base of support as that indicates diluted commitment. I am looking for a few good men. I would not rely on the character of faceless internet snipes, which is why I use diminutives when referring to them, particularly after they demonstrate their quality. I am not here to “provide leadership” to whiners like you. I am here with a discerning eye and a winnowing fork. Or, if you prefer a more modern reference, I have come to “philosophize with a hammer.”

    I have little interest in those who wound easily and then mewl over pain and then pick scabs so that they might continue mewling. Including you, who accomplishes this pitiful cycle vicariously. You should regard any attention from me whatever as a generosity you do not deserve. Today I am in the giving vein.

    Matt

  208. L'addition says:

    ‘Who said my purpose was to “gain much traction here”?’

    that’s lucky – congrats. You must be a very happy buffoon.

    You should consider using an image of Foghorn Leghorn as an avatar. I say, I say, Boy!

  209. Matthew King says:

    Another pointless round-and-round with a halfwit. I do deserve it. Feed the rats and they multiply.

  210. L'addition says:

    yeah, yeah and ‘feed the prats and they keep wobbling on’.

    Have you ever done anything other than ‘another pointless round-and-round’?

    To do otherwise would require you to deal with the real world, where real men have real issues.

    Let’s not ask why the churches are emptying of men that no longer see any value in their teachings. The CofE did research into what affected the attendance rates of children as they grew up and went their own way. They determined that the father’s attendance rate was a strong factor in determining that off their offspring. The fathers that you now see going their own way will likely be followed by their children. Things are going to get a lot worse, very quickly.

    Why won’t you turn your ‘planet sized intellect’ towards making churches safe and relevant for men?

  211. L'addition says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance
    “In short, if a father does not go to church, no matter how faithful his wife’s devotions, only one child in 50 will become a regular worshipper. If a father does go regularly, regardless of the practice of the mother, between two-thirds and three-quarters of their children will become churchgoers (regular and irregular). If a father goes but irregularly to church, regardless of his wife’s devotion, between half and two-thirds of their offspring will attend church regularly or occasionally.”

    I had originally come across a CofE research paper on the subject, but wiki quotes the original research. Driving men out in this generation is going to be catastrophic for the next. But heaven forfend that you address the men’s issues Foghorn

  212. an observer says:

    ” We have social security because a large fraction of people just can’t or won’t save. No reason to argue discipline or virtue its just a fact and we’ve decided we can’t abide starving elderly so social security is a fact of life.”

    Ss is an underfunded, underwater ponzi scheme. On its introduction, few lived long enough to claim it.

    It is designed to foster dependence, and belief that the state has your best interests at heart. Like much other public policy, it destroys thrift and removes consequences.

    Cola is constantly less than actual thanks to changing definitions.

    Good luck in depending on ss for income in old age.

  213. Connie says:

    @ tbc “Why is it that people (and women especially) continue to believe they can defy the laws of God without consequence?”

    Where is your data to back up that statement?

    @ an Observer “The average woman would be better off under a patriarchy.”

    Really? How do you prove that one?

    @MackPUA “Womens movements without a patriarchial culture, devolve into vagina worshipping retard movements …”

    Your punctuation and spelling are atrocious. Your thesis is garbage. And vagina worshipping retard describes half the men I’ve ever met.

    @GBFM – You. Need. Help.

    @ The rest of you – no matter what the topic, you always degenerate into the same profane and misogynistic comments. I only stumbled on this blog when I googled a name and a result directed me here; now it’s like when you can stop looking at a car crash. I can’t believe what I’m reading in the comments section. As a woman, I find you collectively … disgusting. As a Southern lady, I find that you are not gentlemen. As a lawyer, I find you ill informed and without basic analytical skills. As a human person, I find you bigoted and whiny. As a Christian, I find the comments containing both scripture and foul profanity to be hypocritical and offensive. What is wrong with you people that you spend so much time bashing half the human race?

    While I’m sure you will titter about my source here, I could never say it better than Julia …

  214. Tam the Bam says:

    Mm. We probably do need a Spelling Prefect. Are you volunteering, Jools? It’s a very important job, with lots of opportunities for personal development. And there ought to be a badge, and maybe some braid to go with it. I’d love to do it, but I’m afraid I simply don’t have the time.

  215. Tam the Bam says:

    Oh silly me, I should really pay more attention. Connie, not Jools. Obviously completely different. Really.

  216. Connie says:

    @ Tam the Bam

    That’s what you took from my post. Well, you are appropriately named. It does seem to me that if you have the time to post such poorly reasoned arguments, you have the time to spell and punctuate correctly. If your arguments were flawless, those errors would still make you look like the idiots you appear to be.
    Nice handle, really. Think that up yourself – or did the last female to slam the door behind her give it to you?

  217. Novaseeker says:

    And vagina worshipping retard describes half the men I’ve ever met.

    Which of course is not a blanket statement about a huge portion of the human race at all, is it? No, not at all. That only works when it’s MEN saying it. We understand that.

  218. Ton says:

    Wow I haven’t been called misogynistic in hours. I must be slipping

  219. greyghost says:

    Yeah Ton you are kind of an asshole. I bet it was your comments that set connie off.

  220. Tam the Bam says:

    Here’s some more thrilling attention Connie.
    What bloody arguments? What bloody typos? Halfwit.

  221. Tam the Bam says:

    I left out a comma just for you. Troll.

  222. Connie says:

    @Novaseeker – Not an overly large portion of the human race. I acknowledge that men I’ve dated would have been more accurate. I love men, actually, and spend a big part of my time representing them, having been a Daddy’s girl all my life.
    @Tam Bam – For starters, the arguments I mentioned in my first post. Wow … Halfwit? Troll? You really showed me with that witty comeback. I have definitely been put in my place. I may cry and tell my husband on you.

  223. They Call Me Tom says:

    Who the heck is Julia? Then again, who the heck is Connie?

  224. SC says:

    Dalrock: Since I can’t email you I will give you this link and maybe you could put it up as a post. http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2013/04/16/hookinguprealities/a-yale-senior-worth-emulating/

    As you put up so many posts about how young women these days are ruining their lives, it is nice to show that at least a few young women in America still have moral values, even in secular-liberal circles.

    I searched her on facebook and found this photo: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3080017793830&set=pb.1065330080.-2207520000.1366261334.&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fsphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-frc1%2F420467_3080017793830_476967976_n.jpg&size=899%2C960#
    She is dead centre. She looks her age and can even pass for a bit younger. As far as I can see, there are no photos of her drinking/partying/doing anything embarrassing to herself. As much as society should shame women who behave badly, we should also emulate and respect individuals who actually behave well.

  225. Opus says:

    Another Day: Another Attention Seeker.

    Our faults:

    Can’t spell
    Can’t Punctuate
    Disgusting
    Not Gentelmen

    and one of our number needs Help (presumably oin selecting better books)

    – and worst of all –

    No Analytical Skills

    How will we ever live it down and what makes it all the worst is: Connie is a lawyer (we are so impressed and honoured that anyone like that would even deign to comment on our worthless hopeless misogynistic less-than-lawyerly comments). OMG I think I had better go outside now… I may be a little while (before I die of laughter).

  226. That’s what you took from my post.

    What I took from your post, is that you’re a feminist shyster lawyer who likes laws that place innocent men and fathers under the bus. We get that. What I don’t get is why you POS continue to stay and comment on websites you say you absolutely detest?! And, if we’re not called women hating bastards at least once or twice a day, our touch would be diminishing.

    As a Southern lady…

    Lol, that is the funniest shit ever! You Southerners have lost every bit of your unique selves. Your accent, on its way out. Your religion is tainted. Your flag, shat on continuously and you do nothing about it. Those men who fought all those years ago wouldn’t recognise the world you live in today. Worshiping Football above God.. watching those young bucks play, instead of your own sons, must be a joy for them to behold…

    Yeah, go whine somewhere else you hamster wench.

  227. Matthew King says:

    Hi, Connie, thanks for dropping in. How’s things? We can use a voice of reason around here. Tell us more about yourself.

  228. Ton says:

    FH is correct about the South losing our culture, which is a good part of why I am a Southern Separatists. Southern chicks are some of the worst feminist out there for wanting to be empowered etc and expecting men to White knight for them all the time. At least the yankee chicks are consistent with there bad selves

  229. Anonymous Reader says:

    Once the White Knights started showing up, eager to defend the rights of women to behave as badly as they wish without paying a penalty, it was time to re-read the original article on #SWUGNATION. It is easy to see the authoress has some tinges of regret, her words make this clear. What do her actions say? That is much less clear. At the very end of the article, she’s hanging out with the same friends, drinking too much, and so what? She’s still gone to the same parties as before, she’s still running in the same hamster wheel as before. No actions are different.

    Game teaches men a number of things about human nature. One of those things is “watch what women do, not what they say”. This is merely a restatement of an old truism that surely goes back centuries, if not millennia: actions speak louder than words. King A. Matthew King has not yet learned this, it seems. He is satisfied with words only. That’s good enough for him. No need to change behavior. So to King A. Matthew King, the Bible quote is “Go, and do what you want to”. This is very common in modern churches, when it comes to the behavior of women.

    It is interesting to note that the 12-step groups apparently do a better job of behavior modification than the churches. As the saying goes, the first step is to admit that you have a problem. This is where, I am told, people get up in 12 step meetings and have to say “I’m Joe Jones and I’m an alcoholic” or “I”m addicted to oxy” or whatever the issue is. By speaking the problem out loud, in front of other people, the 12-step method forces the individual to admit that a problem even exists. It is not clear from re-reading #SWUGNATION that the authoress had really admitted even that. She has… regrets. Some of the things she expected to happen … have not. There is a studied ambiguity to the piece, that enables the authoress to strike multiple poses; brainy college coed, party girl, don’t-give-a-shit senior, vulnerable girl-child in a cruel world, and so forth.

    None of those poses includes “woman who has turned away from a lifestyle that is harming her”, however. I just do not see it. I see a passive, “oh, stuff happened to me, feels sorry for me” attitude. That very often leads down the path of self-pity, not self-change.

    As more and more men learn the truth about women – from Game, of course, not from churchian White Knight pedestalizers – it will be increasingly difficult for party girls, aging sluts, to find men who will pay attention to them for more than a hookup’s duration. In time, “where are all the good men” may become “why won’t anyone listen to my tale of woe?” Because what is worse than lack of a “good man”? Lack of attention from anyone…women must have their attention fix.

    So we can expect to see more such attention-whoring articles in the years to come, from young women. Shorn of all the verbiage, the dribble, the goo, they will be nothing more than bait for White Knights. “Oh, feel sorry for me, some stuff just happened and now I am sad”. There will be the usual ambiguity regarding agency – no, college sluts don’t go to frat / jock parties to hook up for hot monkey sex, no, it just happens that way, week after week, month after month, year after year, until SWUG status just happens to occur. These attention whoring articles will be full of words that give the impression of different behavior, but that are merely a fig leaf to cover up a bit of naughty reality. The format will follow #SWUGNATION:

    “Oh, noes, I was, like, so messed up as a freshman in college / in my college years / when I first got out of college. But now, I’m talking about it. So, like, pay attention to me and give me what I want. But don’t judge me or ask me to do anything different. That would be, like, misogyny…”

    I guess that there will always be credulous young, single, men who will fall for this stuff. Just as there will always be older, aging men who look at SWUGs and see, er, their own daughter(s). So there will be some number of White Knights always willing to defend women’s rights to all the bad and destructive behavior they want to engage in, defend these rights by blaming men for the bad results. But as the truth about women continues to spread, the White Knights will find fewer and fewer suckers.

    Because more and more men will be paying attention to what women actually do, and not so much to the words that rush out of their pretty, frat-boy fellating, mouths.

  230. Gabber says:

    Quote from a comment above:

    Hypergamy and feminism does the average woman few favours.

    1. It narrows her perspective on prospective partners
    2. It forces her into the workforce during her most fertile years
    3. It delays marriage until she is less attractive
    4. It wrecks her ability to pair bond after she has chosen n>1
    5. It increases her dissatisfaction with marriage and family life
    6. Her husband must deal with a highly regulated, feminised workplace
    7. She will probably outsource educating the children
    8. She will resent having to work, blaming the husband for not earning enough
    9. She is incentivised to divorce
    10. She will grow to hate her ex, blaming him for 1-9 above,/blockquote>

    I completely agree with that. We should print that out as flyers!

  231. Kate says:

    Twelve Steps

    1.We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
    2.Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
    3.Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
    4.Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
    5.Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
    6.Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
    7.Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
    8.Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
    9.Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
    10.Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
    11.Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
    12.Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

  232. Connie says:

    @Matthew King – I’m sure you are the only person on here who cares to know more about me, and it’s hard to sum up any person in a blog post, but here’s a thumbnail sketch. Nobody is required to read it…
    I’m a white female who recently celebrated my 50th birthday. I am a Christian and a Southern Baptist and, for the most part, a Republican. I am a lawyer who works hard for all my clients, about 40% of whom are male. I have no children, even though I wanted them desperately, because my ex-husband changed his mind about having a family after we were married. He did this even though I asked him when he proposed if he was really sure he wanted to start over with another baby or two when his son had just turned twenty; he assured me that he did. I put his happiness before my own, and when we divorced thirteen years later, it was too late for me. Being childless is my biggest regret, but having made the decision to stay with him – because I loved him more than my dearest dream – I went to law school so I could do something else worthwhile with my life.
    I was an assistant prosecutor for nine years, an appointed prosecutor for one. For the past six years, I have practiced primarily family law. As a prosecutor, I learned that evil has no gender. As a family lawyer, I have learned that there is generally enough blame to go around when a marriage ends. My proudest moment as a prosecutor was winning two convictions against a man who had sex with his daughter and then brought home a friend to have sex with her. It was all the sweeter for going against the attorney he chose, not just because he was a top ten trial lawyer who started practicing law the year I was born, but because he successfully represented the Catholic Church in several civil suits arising from priests’ molesting children. I ran for judge in 2006 (not a good year for Republicans) because I thought somebody needed to run against a man who said, in open court, during a proceeding against a twenty year old female for having sex with a thirteen year old boy, that, “Your ‘victim’ is the happiest boy in _____ County.” I told him that the law was black and white, not pink and blue, and he laughed at me. I did not win the election, but I stood up for my principles. The defendant went to prison.
    I am happily remarried to a retired undercover narcotics detective who did two tours of duty in Viet Nam. I’m proud of his service. I am a passionate animal welfare advocate. I love to read and cook; I wish I could travel more. I enjoy stand-up comedy, but I do not enjoy scatalogical humor. I love music and occasionally sing with a local band. My husband and I have two rescued Brittanies, and I do some volunteer work for animal rescue agencies.
    I was raised as an only child after being adopted by a great aunt and uncle when I was two. I am proud to be from the South, even though I have lived in the Midwest for twenty years now. I miss the days and the places where children said yes ma’am and no sir and the only people who cussed were immature junior high boys. I miss my parents, both gone now. My beloved Daddy was a Pearl Harbor survivor and a Normandy survivor and sold office equipment after the war. My precious Mama worked for the telephone company and kept the church nursery for 37 years. Generations of children adored her. I want to be just like her when I grow up.
    I am somebody who wandered onto this sight after it showed up in a Google search. I was shocked, then offended, and finally downright aggravated by all the vitriolic posts about women. I haven’t seen this much hate since I watched a PBS special on “skinheads.” I had somehow overlooked that views like those posted here had not died with Schopenhauer. It reminds me of the “logic” used to defend slavery, such as, “Negros are like children. They need to be told what to do.”
    I resent being labeled a “shyster” when, in reality, not only do I work very hard for my clients, I also care about them very much. I resent being despised for being a female. I have never been a “feminist,” although I believe in some of their goals. I have never wanted to be a man. I was raised on traditional male and female roles; I read Marabel Morgan, for crying out loud, and believed her. This did not always serve me well, but I was who I was. It’s who I still am. Both my ex and current husbands would tell you that I am a wife to caters to her husband – and enjoys it.
    I am somebody who challenges statements that “women especially continue to believe they can defy the laws of God without consequence,” and “The average woman would be better off under a patriarchy.” Where is the authority for those statements? What is an “average” woman? I am somebody who resents being called a “halfwit” and a “troll” because I challenged such statements. Halfwits don’t make Law Review, and while I am no trip to Hollywood, I’m no troll.
    Finally, I am not someone who judges all men based on the actions of a few. My birth father broke my fingers and burned me with a hot iron before I was eighteen months old; I will forever bear the scars. I don’t judge all men by him. My first love cheated on me. I don’t judge all men by him. A man I thought I loved slapped me for stating my opinion and knocked out a tooth. I don’t judge all men by him. So, I am somebody who thinks that I, too, am entitled to be judged on my own merits.
    TMI, I’m sure. Thanks for asking. Have a nice day.

  233. Opus says:

    I present Connie (as exhibit A) as as good a reason as any as to why women are entirely unsuited to law: she practises as a Prosecutor and notices that evil has no sex – yet later demonstrates her mysandry with the remark about the thirteen year old girl – but why mention sex if it is irrelevant? Later she practises Matrimonial Law and discovers – not the frivolousnsess of divorce or that Divorce is a female proclivity – but that there is enough blame to go round, thus exonerating female fickleness and shifting it to hapless males.

    ‘I have no children’ – says it all really.

  234. 8oxer says:

    Connie sez:

    I have no children, even though I wanted them desperately, because my ex-husband changed his mind about having a family after we were married. He did this even though I asked him when he proposed if he was really sure he wanted to start over with another baby or two when his son had just turned twenty; he assured me that he did.

    In other words, Connie found a naïve sucker to marry her; but, much to her misfortune, he wised up before she could trap him with hostages, ruining her plans to divorce him and suck him dry for the rest of his life, while abusing his estranged children with lies about their father.

    I put his happiness before my own, and when we divorced thirteen years later, it was too late for me.

    Connie never forgave her ex-husband for his ability to see through her bullshit, and after making his life Hell for several years, she divorced him once she had enough time in the marriage to press for maximum alimony and property. (I believe in many states, 10-15 years is considered a “long term marriage”, but Connie would surely know more about the law she manipulates in her area than I do).

    Connie has since found another chump, and is so miserable and masochistic that she trolls around on various blogs, looking for people to spit on her. It’s the closest thing she can come to in regards to the male attention she’s persistently seeking.

    A perfect example to all the young brothers as to what you can expect when you marry a pseudo-Christian American whore. Just say no to the empowered American lawyerchicks.

  235. Connie says:

    @Opus – Read it again. I was prosecuting an adult woman for having sex with a thirteen year old BOY. I said evil has no gender; men and women can be equally cruel and violent. I mentioned that case to explain why I made the decision to run for judge.

    Further, I also pointed out that almost half of my clients are men, and more than half of them came to me to file for divorce or custody, not because a “fickle female” had already filed.

    Just FYI, the only two custody cases I ever tried and lost when I represented the husband and/or father were both when white men were on the bench – men who think that women should raise the children and men should earn the money. These men were raised in a patriarchal society.

    Did you read why I have no children? If you did, then you are a really cruel person.

  236. Anonymous Reader says:

    Kate, that is useful. Take “alcohol” out and put other things, like “slutting it up” in, and some people could learn something. I am told there is an atheist version of 12 steps, no idea what that looks like.

    The saying goes that the first step is to admit a problem. I’m not sure the authoress of #SWUGNATION has even gotten to that, yet, hence my various replies in this thread.

  237. Connie says:

    @Kate. Thanks! Reading it now…

  238. Connie’s a cliché. Really, is there a site out there that has pre-typed posts ready to be copied and pasted when it’s most convenient? Just fill in the blanks sort of thing.

    Same sob story, always trotted out to get the sympathy vote. Abused by the bio father and past lovers, raised by some all loving, down to Earth hero relative – now called ‘Beloved Daddy’. As to why a ‘Christian woman’ has had past ‘lovers’ remains a mystery though… now divorced, second hubby some war hero/kind caring, noble man and, of course, she also loves animals. And she stood up to DA MAN, don’t you know?! Get the fight on Sista! We’re behind ya all the way! Yeehaaw!

    She has no children because evil hubby the first didn’t want more and he lied. Yes, he lied gosh darn it! Evil bastard; and yet she still stuck with him. Can you believe it?! Guess she also married late as he already had children aged 20, when they married, and 13 years later, she’s as barren as the plains of Zama…

    Should have married young Connie but then your law career would have been shelved for a number of years. You chose career over family and children, don’t deny it.

    Why? Why do these types of posts always end with ‘Have a nice day.’? Is that some sort of a joke? Notice the “I’m not feminist but believe in the Feminist Mantra” bullshit? Yea, normal for the course. Femmy femster, the herd is calling!

    Your post if full of bashing men but that’s not hate, it’s all true, right? Get bent! Since you wondered onto this site, you can wonder straight off now. Toodles!

  239. Tam the Bam says:

    Is it just me? Once more for the baggy green.

    Connie :
    @ Tam the Bam
    That’s what you took from my post. Well, you are appropriately named. It does seem to me that if you have the time to post such poorly reasoned arguments, you have the time to spell and punctuate correctly. If your arguments were flawless, those errors would still make you look like the idiots you appear to be. [
    interpreted as superfluous literal, as not expecting sudden unannounced change of person from singular to plural and then back again. -TtB]
    Nice handle, really. Think that up yourself – or did the last female to slam the door behind her give it to you?”

    Le me :-
    “What bloody arguments? What bloody typos? Halfwit.”

    Where in the first comment I posted did I make any arguments? Where did I slip up grammatically? Or do you think I singlehandedly contrived every comment in the thread?
    I am Legion lozlllzoollz. Teh Hivemininmindzez ..

    You are trolling, and very transparently.
    You have nothing to say. No counters to any “arguments” that Other People [NB!] may have made (which would be genuinely interesting). Merely illogical, vitriolic and abusive carping over irrelevancies, and flailing all about with some entirely imagined authority and competence, from the get-go. And you read and process what’s put in front of you perilously haphazardly. Which ought to concern those subject to your professional attentions. Simpleton.

    [Now, let’s see if the html demon will cooperate this time .. fingers crossed]

  240. Tam the Bam says:

    nope; forgot to close an italic tag after the last instance of “would”. As you were.

  241. Connie says:

    @Feminist Hater – Read it again. I didn’t become a lawyer until after my ex-husband decided he didn’t want children. I did not choose career over family and children; I chose his happiness over my desire for children. I never called him an “evil bastard” or a liar. I believe he meant it when he said he wanted children. He changed his mind; it happens. It was my choice to stay, one I made because I loved him. I still do. And (@8oxer) I forgave him because I loved him. And because holding a grudge is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die. I was thirty when we married; he was forty-four. I married him when I was thirty because that’s when I met him and fell in love with him.
    Sympathy vote? I’m not sure how you extrapolated that, but I don’t need or want your sympathy, and by the way, sympathy for what? My life isn’t perfect, but I am grateful that it is good. I regret that I don’t have children, but I don’t wallow in self-pity about it. I do my best every day to do some good in the world, and then I go home to a husband and two dogs who love me to pieces. I have a roof over my head, a comfortable bed, hot water on demand, food in the freezer, and money in the bank. Everybody should have as much.
    My post is not “full of bashing men.” It does contain a few facts about individual men which are indeed true. But I am quite clear that I don’t judge all men by the actions of a few, just like I don’t judge all women by what some do. I regard people as individuals and like them or not based on their individual actions. I recognize that goes against the entire belief system of people like you.
    The word is “wander” – not “wonder.” Look it up.
    I won’t annoy you by wishing you a nice day…

  242. Tam the Bam says:

    and further up too.

  243. Connie says:

    @Tam – Is what “just you?” What is the “baggy green?”

  244. Tam the Bam says:

    Answer the question.

  245. Connie says:

    @Tam…What question?

  246. Aw, did I misspell a word? I’m so sorry. Now, be nice and go make a sandwich or something. Okay.

    Ta ta.

    I wander if Connie is purposefully being a fucking obtuse skank of a whore?

  247. Tam the Bam says:

    This question. You’ve already dodged it twice.

    “Where in the first comment I posted did I make any arguments? Where did I slip up grammatically?”

    Your Head Prefect’s badge is in the post.

  248. Ton says:

    LOL, connie married “down”; cops of that time period didn’t do college, and an older man, her being born in the 60’s and the last men left Nam in 75. Note he wasn’t 18 in 75′ either

    Good move for him though, younger woman making bank. Brother did alright if she doesn’t run her mouth to much around the house.

    Also notice her family law clients don’t jive with statistics. Bullshit flag anyone?

  249. Eh Ton, the bells have been ringing like a person’s hears from the Waco blast!

  250. Connie says:

    @Tam – Where in the first post I made did I criticize YOUR spelling or punctuation? That comment was specifically directed at MackPUA. My requests for authority to back up certain statements were directed at “tbc” (“Why is it that people (and women especially) continue to believe they can defy the laws of God without consequence?”) and “an Observer” (“The average woman would be better off under a patriarchy.”)

    Then you jumped in with a sarcastic comment about spelling prefects, and I noted that if something is worth posting, it is worth spelling right.

    Then you correctly busted me for changing from singular to plural in the same sentence.

    Question answered?

  251. Eh, another spelling mistake. I’m so sorry Connie! Accept my most humble apologies. It was such a terrible mistake… Please Dalrock, please correct my error and replace ‘hears’ with ‘ears’.

    Thank you.

  252. Tam the Bam says:

    Con; –“@Tam – Where in the first post I made did I criticize YOUR spelling or punctuation? “
    Nice try, but no.

    I asked the question in response to this mystifyingly tangential squeal addressed to me. See how that works?
    “@ Tam the Bam

    That’s what you took from my post. Well, you are appropriately named. It does seem to me that if you have the time to post such poorly reasoned arguments, you have the time to spell and punctuate correctly. If your arguments were flawless, those errors would still make you look like the idiots you appear to be.
    Nice handle, really. Think that up yourself – or did the last female to slam the door behind her give it to you?”

  253. Connie says:

    @Ton – My current husband was born in 1946. He enlisted after a year of college. He was at Phuket and Pleiku in the first ever Air Force ground combat unit. My ex was an engineer. Where do you get that I married down? You sound like one of those money-grubbing women you profess to hate. The only man to ever totally support me was my Daddy.
    My numbers don’t jive with your statistics? Wow, I must be full of it. Maybe that’s because I am fairly well known in some circles for advocating well for fathers so that I have a higher than average number of male clients..
    @Feminist Hater – “Profanity is the effort of a feeble brain to express itself forcibly.”
    ― Spencer W. Kimball

  254. Connie says:

    @Tam – Sorry. In my business, that is known as being unresponsive. The correct answer would be – “Nowhere.”

  255. Aw, you’re trying to shame now too! Wanderful… you sure you don’t know DH? Sisters perhaps?

    Please, no longer! I beg of your mercy! It is too much.

    Connie, Connie, listen. Why are you here? We’re dumb, full of poop and cannot reason at all. Not fit for the likes of uber sexy, Connie the Con. I would advise that you stop casting your wise words amongst us unfit ones. It does you no good.

    Do you have an open relationship with your husband?

  256. Tam the Bam says:

    Gentlemen. It would appear then, at long last, that my sole crime is having an unseemly username.
    I shall punish myself by locating and consuming several units of Shepherd&Neames’, in quick succession. Persisting in the face of all that weaselling is thirsty work.

  257. 8oxer says:

    O LOLOLOLOL! Connie quoting SWK instantly marks her as part of the self-appointed chosen tribe.

    I’m a Mormon too, cunt. We get a new one of you masochistic weirdo bitches here every week. It seems there’s no limit to sicko women who endlessly seek out the abuse they miss from childhood. I’d make you a special project of mine, but FH and the crew seem to be doing well on their own.

    Regards, Boxer

  258. Connie says:

    @Feminist Hater – Perhaps you are blessed with a little bit of humor – I get the “Wanderful.”

    Your language IS disgraceful, and yes, shame on you for calling someone you don’t know a “skank of a whore.” And I agree, it is a bit like casting pearls before swine.

    Assuming you read my admittedly long post, your reading for comprehension isn’t very good. I am an only child, so whoever DH is, she is not my sister. I also filled you all in on why I am here.

    Why do you shoo me away and then ask me another question? What do you mean by “open relationship?”

    “Con?”

  259. Ton says:

    Air force ground combat? Sorry darling, just wondered into my area of expertise. The bullshit flag is officially thrown. And building an airfield under mortar attack is not ground combat. Its still combat support

    Where your statistics don’t match reality is in who does the filing.

    You’ll not find one post of mine decrying women’s desire for high status men/ men with money.

    And you did marry down as woman prefer men of higher status. The higher status men in your AO pulled younger AND hotter.

    Look, practice trolling and come back later. Your not ready for the majors yet.

  260. Connie says:

    @8oxer – I am not a Mormon. I am a Baptist. I choose quotes on what I think about them, not on the religion of the speaker. Do you like one of these better?
    “To swear is neither brave, polite, nor wise.” -Alexander Pope
    “Profanity is the last refuge of the truly ignorant.” – Anonymous
    “A single profane expression betrays a [person’s] low breeding.” -Joseph Cook
    “The foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing is a vice so mean and low that every person of sense and character detests and despises it.” -George Washington

    Do you kiss your Mama with that mouth?

  261. Tam, you evil bastard, how dare you?! How dare you defy a woman, dishonour a woman by using such a revolting name?! You shall now receive 50 lashings! Nah, 100! Repent your wicked crimes, you heathen peasant! You are to be required from here on out to sayeth unto everyone you meet:

    The new commandment: Thou shall not useth unseemly and revolting usernames from henceforth!

    Go and spread the word…

  262. Connie says:

    @Ton – Sorry if I didn’t use the correct phrase. He was in the Air Force, but he was fighting on the ground. Whatever you call it, it was the first Air Force unit to do what it did.

    Again, you are generalizing about what “women” want. What is an AO?

    And again, I wasn’t “trolling” when I got here. I was looking for information and was offended by the comments. I’ve actually only posted on a blog once before, and it was a woman’s blog. I think we must agree to disagree – while Dalrock may be in the “majors,” forgive me for thinking that most of the men posting here are strictly bush league.

  263. Nah Connie, you came here looking to rebel and defy. You came here looking to claim the moral high ground. You’re not interested in learning or listening. Your first post is what I call ‘Kind Mockery’. It isn’t overt but it shows the bent of your lean. You’re Team Women, you serve the feminist lies and bunk that have destroyed what was good about society. I don’t play nice with you lot.

    Wow, you posted on a blog once before, oh wow! That is amazing, please don’t tell us anymore and post there instead. Alright… Have a nice day!

  264. Keoni Galt says:

    I was looking for information and was offended by the comments.

    Hmmmmm….does this deserve a “major” response?

    Nah. Bush league is more fun.

  265. L'addition says:

    Bush league?

    You really should be ashamed of such pitiful shaming attempts.

    Men in the manosphere , generally speaking, are beyond shaming anyway. Still might work on the white knights, I suppose…they are dumb like that. The rest of us see it for the manipulation that it is

    Have nice day, sweetie

  266. Opus says:

    Naturally the attention whore has no answer to my points and she will have no answer to the following either: A lawyer dealing with a case should be utterly indifferent to the guilt or innocence or as the case may be of his client and be happy to prosecute or defend as by chance will have his Brief either for or against the State. A lawyer who becomes emotionally involved in his clients interests has lost neccesary professional distance, yet Connie makes it clear she is unaware of this to my mind rather basic rule of advocacy, and indeed relishes acting as Judge and Jury if she can do so. Perhaps this God like attitude to law and lawyering is different where I reside from that in The State of Texas but if she were in my charge and came up with attitudes like that I would give her a serious bollocking. It is, I regret to say, a not uncommon failing with females lawyers, for whom everything is always about them and their Vaginas.

    She also fails to understand boys: Thirteen year old boys love having sex especially with twenty year old women (if they can get it). Whether they should or not is an entirely different matter. Connie reveals her entire lack of a sense of humour – obviously extracted at birth – in response to opposing Counsel’s Joke’s, as if a joke were a hanging offence, but of course she uses the incident to ‘stand up to men’. Foisting herself on the good peole of Texas as a would-be Judge. Ye Gods! Then she has the nerve to come here to get the attention she is obviously not getting at home. Perhaps she should go dogging, as taking on multiple men seems to be her preferred option. The attempt at shaming falls on very deaf ears, but as she is obviously unfamiliar with the threads on this blog – and what happens to similar females – this may come as a surprise to her. Vain and Pretentious, and just waiting for King A’s (surely tongue in cheek) invitation to tell us all about herself.

    Let women into the Profession and all they want to do is put up the net curtains and start shaming men as Connie proudly boasts of trying to do. As I have said before, may I never again have the considerable misfortune to work with a woman lawyer – when it comes to unprofessional self-centered ghastliness female lawyers are in a class of their own, that is when they aren’t flaunting their bodies in your direction. Nothing Connie has written has given me the slightest reason to change my view of female lawyers, but she is otherwise indistinguishable from all the other females who come here to lecture men, and then within 72 hours disappear never to return again.

  267. Connie says:

    @Keoni Galt

    Maybe I should not have been surprised by the comments when I first read them; God knows that as a prosecutor I saw so much foul behavior that I should be a complete cynic by now. However, somehow, I am still an optimist who expects the best until someone beats me on the head with the worst (I prefer it that way, actually), and doggone if there’s not some of the worst on here. But nobody has the right to tell me what should offend me. Tell me, am I allowed to be offended when someone declares that I’m a “shyster” or a “cunt” without knowing me?
    I do find all this woman-bashing offensive. I find the profanity offensive, especially when it is a) coupled with scripture, and b) directed at me. I wandered on here totally unaware that this was a “manosphere” site – or that there was such a thing as a “manosphere.” Now I’m reading it to see what it’s all about. Dalrock seems like a good guy; his posts are well reasoned, and I agree with much of what he has to say. Those who have commented are another matter altogether.
    You are free to say what you wish. I am free to read it or not. I am also free to react as comes naturally to me. I do wish someone would explain to me how calling me a “cunt” advances the stated goals.

  268. Opus says:

    I’ll pass Counsel for the Prosecution the virtual smelling salts as this strong independent woman seems to be having a fit of the vapours.

  269. Connie, how much ‘bang’ did you get for your ‘buck’? Or was it just a whimper?

  270. Connie says:

    @Feminist Hater

    Good grief, I just read your comment on another post (A Criticism Too Kind) where you say you are a CHRISTIAN? Really? What Christian man uses language like “skank of a whore?” What true follower of Christ speaks to anyone that way? It’s Christians like you who cause people to be turned off Christianity. Do you understand the word HYPOCRITE? I’m (almost) speechless!
    Well, if there’s ever a law passed against Christianity, at least there won’t be enough evidence to convict you!

  271. JoeS says:

    Almost all feminists support abortion. Almost all of them are filthy whores.

  272. Wow, you have such an issue with words!? Really, you’re going to stand here and judge on words. Oh dear! Don’t make me pull out the judge not card!!! You’ve been warned.

  273. Hypocrite, you doos, means to say something and do the opposite. It does not mean one swears. Get bent!

  274. You should read some of my other comments. Pure gold I’m talking here. If that one left you breathless, these will leave you practically panting and grasping for an oxygen mask…

  275. Connie, how bunged up is your buck? I’m guessing quite a lot?

  276. Connie says:

    @Feminist Hater

    You are going to quote “Judge not lest you be judged” to me? What have you woman-hating horses’ asses been doing all day except judging me strictly by my profession and my plumbing?
    And to think I thought I might actually learn something here. Y’all are just engaged in one big circle jerk – I’ll let you get back to it.

  277. namae nanka says:

    is connie a reincarnation of jennifer or something like that who used to post around dalrock’s and other blogs, like alte’s?

    “I haven’t seen this much hate since I watched a PBS special on “skinheads.” I had somehow overlooked that views like those posted here had not died with Schopenhauer. ”

    LOL

  278. Sarcasm Connie lol! Learn about it. Damn, what a…

  279. Connie, it is common to note that Lawyers of the shyster type have bad plumbing. I advise regular pipe cleanings. You know the ones, I know you do. Where you really have to get all down in there and shit. Clean it out, usually runs clean for about a couple months, then gets all banged up and becomes a slight whimper. Nothing to worry about though, just call the PUAs to unblock the mess with their shafts and all is well.

  280. They Call Me Tom says:

    One has to wonder if the hamster-empowered visitors to the comment section… if they ever come to realize that they’re validating ‘game’ by proving that it’s when men don’t fall down and beg mercy of women… that women give them the most attention… Connie is proof of that, no?

  281. Connie says:

    @Opus

    What points did I not answer from the last post? And, oh, you could not be more wrong in both “the following” and the mere idea that I would have no answer to your drivel.

    “A lawyer dealing with a case should be utterly indifferent to the guilt or innocence or as the case may be of his client and be happy to prosecute or defend as by chance will have his Brief either for or against the State.”

    A prosecutor is ethically required to prosecute only such cases as s/he believes s/he can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Therefore, to be “utterly indifferent to the guilt or innocence” of the defendant would be not only unethical, but a massive abuse of the power inherent in the position.

    Further, a prosecutor does not have “clients.” S/he represents the interests of the State in matters that involve violations of the law. S/he is not the victim’s attorney. There is no attorney/client privilege between the prosecutor and any victim or witness.

    So much for your “basic rule of advocacy.”

    “It is, I regret to say, a not uncommon failing with females lawyers, for whom everything is always about them and their Vaginas.”

    It had nothing to do with me and even less to do with my vagina. Seriously, where do you get such utter crap? It had to do with my responsibilities in the justice system. Yes, I was victim-oriented, but not until I was convinced that there was a crime and, therefore, a victim.

    “She also fails to understand boys: Thirteen year old boys love having sex especially with twenty year old women (if they can get it). Whether they should or not is an entirely different matter. Connie reveals her entire lack of a sense of humour – obviously extracted at birth – in response to opposing Counsel’s Joke’s, as if a joke were a hanging offence, but of course she uses the incident to ‘stand up to men’.”

    I don’t know whether I understand boys or not. Maybe this thirteen year-old boy did enjoy having sex with the twenty year old woman. On the other hand, he will have to live the rest of his life with what she gave him that water won’t wash off and antibiotics won’t cure. However, had the remark been made by an “opposing counsel,” it would not have bothered me nearly so much. If you had actually read what I wrote, you would have (maybe) gleaned that it was the JUDGE who made that remark. The JUDGE is supposed to be objective, unlike the prosecutor, but he is also supposed to realize that the law says this child IS a victim of statutory rape in the first degree, not make smart-ass remarks about prosecuting a woman for having sex with a boy-child. I do understand the law. I do note that women can be as guilty as men of sexual abuse and statutory rape. Geez, one might think from reading this blog that the fact that I would prosecute a woman for that would give me some credibility. If I had given her a pass – like that judge would have – I might come close to being as bad as you think women really are. No pleasing you, is there, Opus?

    “Foisting herself on the good peole of Texas as a would-be Judge. Ye Gods! ”

    I did not run for judge in Texas. You misspelled “people.”

    “Then she has the nerve to come here to get the attention she is obviously not getting at home.”

    I get plenty of attention at home – thanks.

    “Perhaps she should go dogging, as taking on multiple men seems to be her preferred option.”

    What exactly is your authority for that statement? I’m perfectly happy here at home, my husband watching baseball, my puppies running around.

    “The attempt at shaming falls on very deaf ears, but as she is obviously unfamiliar with the threads on this blog – and what happens to similar females – this may come as a surprise to her.”

    Agreed. There are none so deaf as those who will not hear. I am clearly unfamiliar with men who are so disrespectful to women.

    “Vain and Pretentious, and just waiting for King A’s (surely tongue in cheek) invitation to tell us all about herself.”

    Not hardly. Perhaps his “invitation” was tongue in cheek. If so, shame on him.

    “Let women into the Profession and all they want to do is put up the net curtains and start shaming men as Connie proudly boasts of trying to do.”

    Actually, I admire and respect men – until they prove to me they do not deserve admiration and respect – kind of like you.

    “As I have said before, may I never again have the considerable misfortune to work with a woman lawyer.”

    I would not wish working with you on any female I know, lawyer or waitress or even a therapist who is trained to deal with the likes of you.

    “when it comes to unprofessional self-centered ghastliness female lawyers are in a class of their own, that is when they aren’t flaunting their bodies in your direction.”

    So when (if) they are flaunting their bodies in your direction (I’m thinking highly unlikely), they aren’t self-centered and ghastly? Is that because you think they are paying attention to you – and that makes them … okay? And, I never flaunted my body at anyone to gain a professional advantage. I don’t need to – I won forty + jury trials with my brain, my passion for justice, and my work ethic.

    “Nothing Connie has written has given me the slightest reason to change my view of female lawyers,”

    Could any woman change your mind about anything?

    “but she is otherwise indistinguishable from all the other females who come here to lecture men, and then within 72 hours disappear never to return again.”

    Don’t bet on it, Buster!

    FYI – My resource for the professional standards comes from the ABA and the U.S. Supreme Court. Feel free to verify it.

  282. Connie says:

    @They Call Me Tom

    No.

    But, is that what you are doing? Acting out to get the attention of women? Even if it is negative attention? Poor guys…I’m sorry you can’t get a woman’s attention any other way. Or have you even tried? If you haven’t, you should. Women’s loving attentions can be very sweet indeed.

  283. Connie says:

    @ Feminist Hater

    “Connie, how bunged up is your buck? I’m guessing quite a lot?”

    Really, now. Would you speak to me that way if Jesus was in the room? Oh, Christian, where art thou?

  284. Matthew King says:

    You damn fools have zero sales technique. Instead of seeing an intrigued person as an opportunity, you see her as a punching bag to get out your frustration; to revenge yourself upon her and hope to feel better. I am a chief advocate for the legitimacy of your frustration, but you have to rise above your precious omega hatreds. Allow yourself to be defined by aspirations — dress for the job you want, not the job you have — rather than by paranoia. If you were on my staff, you’d all be fired.

    But you are freelancers, so you will squat in and soil the territory of better men than you. All the more so when you are called out on it, because not only do you shit all over yourselves, you are perversely proud of the stink (or too ashamed to repent of your childish tantrums).

    Connie came here because she thought she needed to vent. Allow it, empathize with it, and thereby gain her ear. Then present your case.

    Matt

  285. Matthew King says:

    Connie wrote:

    I have never been a “feminist,” although I believe in some of their goals. I have never wanted to be a man.

    You are a prosecutor, and the mistake you made was coming into a comment section in prosecutorial mode. It doesn’t seem like it now, but all of these men who attack first and ask questions later have good reasons behind their passion just as you do. They just have to refine their technique. The internet is a free-for-all, so learn to separate the wheat from the chaff, especially because the best among them are also the quietest — they have no need to prove themselves and are the ones to first abandon pointless circular contests.

    Don’t be scandalized by the commentary. Stick to the original posts and scan for helpful responses and absorb the rest in Christian joy. The worst thing you can do is publicly confirm to them that they have gotten to you. “It hurts you to kick against the goads.” (Acts 26:14)

    Now for this simple welcoming of a stranger (or, as they’d prefer to characterize every new face, a “troll”), I will be called a “White Knight,” who rushes to the defense of entitled princesses to curry favor with them. This is more of their resentment sickness — every word that calls them out for their cowardice is characterized as a projection of their opponent’s weakness. You see, they prove to each other (and above all, to themselves) their fidelity to the cause by treating every disagreement/rookie misunderstanding as evidence of secret enmity, as though it weren’t possible they could just simply be acting like chumps. As you will soon discover, if you don’t presume a woman to be a feminist whore, you are hopelessly naïve, and better off erring on the side of precipitate hatred.

    You will also discover that others of us interact with women daily.

    Matt

  286. Opus says:

    ‘I have never been a “Nazi”, I just believe in some of their goals. I have never wanted to be a Jew’.

  287. Opus says:

    ‘I have never been a “Feminazi”, I just believe in some of their goals. I have never wnated to be a Mangina’.

  288. Tam the Bam says:

    Woman blunders into comment thread. Decides she doesn’t like what she sees, and demands right off the bat, with no dialogue, that the men around jump to it and start rearranging the furniture to her taste. Yelling personalised abuse at nonplussed strangers while she’s at it.
    What did you think was going to happen, Matty?
    What do you think would have happened in meatspace?
    Troll is, as troll does.

    She’s also an evasive and dissembling purveyor of un-logic, and absurdly and toe-curlingly boastful.
    Her bona fides are most decidedly open to question. Check the thread through from where I’ve linked, when she slams the door open and starts shrieking.

    O crumbs that’s torn it.
    I’ll have no doubt triggered another voluminous Asperger’s-fuelled diatribe in response ..

  289. Connie says:

    @Matt

    Thank you for the kind words. And thank you for offering to be my “White Knight.” I don’t believe I am an “entitled princess,” nor was my intent to curry “favor.” I reacted to the comments out of indignation at their bigotry toward my entire sex and a desire to defend myself and other women. Such broad sweeping generalizations are completely counterproductive; they do not facilitate understanding, good will, or change – which I understand to be the purpose of this blog.
    I will keep reading Dalrock in the hopes that I will understand his message. I’ve read one or two posts that I found to be very thought-provoking and insightful. You must know, however, that the majority of the comments are completely off-putting to any female who comes upon them unawares.
    Again, thank you for your advice and support.

  290. mackPUA says:

    Wtf is this crap …

    “@MackPUA “Womens movements without a patriarchial culture, devolve into vagina worshipping retard movements …”

    Your punctuation and spelling are atrocious. Your thesis is garbage. And vagina worshipping retard describes half the men I’ve ever met.

    You didnt refute a single thing, all you did was spew names like a vagina worshipping retard …

    Do you even know how to debate or argue a point, without waving your barren slutty vagina around …

    Also try & stop behaving like a vagina worshipping retard, seriously the fumes from your vagina can & in your case … most likely lead to brain cell deficit

    Women who worship their own vagina’s, correlate brain cell deficit in 98% of women sufferring from that disease of vagina worship ….

    It’s a well known epidemic effecting most clueless sluts like connie & her ilk …

  291. FuriousFerret says:

    @Connie

    I think a lot of people fail to see the big picture in that we have all been living under a vain delusion about how the brutal truths of reality and each and every one of us have to face the music at some point. When people realize that their whole society has been built on massive fairy tales, they simply want to vent and rage.

    Also when you really break it down for people they recoil in horror precisely because they know it’s the truth. You coming in here and trying to contribute is like a German going to a holocaust survivor’s meeting and telling us about all the great things about Germany and that we don’t understand the full story.

    The problem you are under is the same one we all face. There are some truths you just don’t want to admit.

    ” I reacted to the comments out of indignation at their bigotry toward my entire sex and a desire to defend myself and other women. ”

    Right here is telling. Indignation is termed ‘chick crack’ around these parts for a reason. You and many other people get a high from being so right in your own mind and that of mainstream society and enjoy the permission you give yourself to exert power over others. Indignation is rarely ever good especially when it comes to ideology.

    Also, the way I see it is that the vast majority of people are followers and for lack of a better word stupid. They need to be lead. This works ok when you have sembalance of just leadership and decently moralistic society. However when the society is decaying, the normal people will decay along with it.

    The fact is that MOST women and MOST men just meander about and run amok when not kept in check. It’s just that men have been successfully penned in while women are free to roam as long as they play by the rules and women are better at playing by the rules, it’s just the way they are wired. So when you give the average woman free reign she is just going make dumb choices for herself while making the master happy. The average man is already been beaten and caged down by the system, some are aware and some aren’t. It really doesn’t matter.

    Most men are losers. Most women only hold value to the world when they are in their youth. You simply have to look at the average American to this in action. Overflowing with fat and simple though patterns. They don’t even care. I get it that women don’t respect beta men, I don’t respect most men, but you have to acknowledge the flip side, that women usually have worthless personalities of giant children and basically cease value after about 30 for the average girl.

    This isn’t bigotry, it’s simply the truth. These people need to be saved from themselves as much as I hate to admit it.

    Matt’s right that people that want to come out and seek the truth shouldn’t be beat down. It comes from a different place than feminist attackers. Almost every guy here is/was a beta. They are pissed about this. Some have accepted that they had to change and did. That this wasn’t a luxury. They had to man up the right way, not the way our society wants them to. Others simply want to rage.

    Fewer women realize that they are living in unnatural state and fewer still attempt to tap into their femininity. The ones that do should be commended even if the person that ultimately benefits is themselves. Reclaming your natural state is probably the most important thing you can do in your life.

  292. FuriousFerret says:

    Let me put it this way:

    If you let the majority of men do whatever they pleased with little consequences ( at least for good amount of time) it would be a total disaster. However, most men are constrained by other men.

    When let the majority of women do whatever they pleased with little consequences (at least for a good amount of time) it has been a total disaster. Unlike the guys however they aren’t hemmed in except by other women and alpha males.

    IRL you can’t criticize women as a group so when people have the forum to do so they go nuts.

    People are evil and immoral, it’s just that one groups seemingly gets away with it and the other group that is being used hates this.

  293. Opus says:

    ‘Woman blunders into thread
    Doesn’t like what she sees
    Demands men jump to it
    Starts rearranging the furniture
    Yells personalised abuse at non-plussed strangers
    Evasive.. Dissembling…Toe-curlingly boastful’

    Awaiting the Asberger’s fuelled Diatribe🙂

    In my next life I am coming back as Tam the Bam!

  294. Connie says:

    @Furious Ferret…

    Thank you for speaking to me as though I am actually a person and not something stuck to your shoe. I still don’t see any authority for saying that most women fit your stereotype any more than I see any authority for saying most men are losers. When you say most women don’t have any worth or value after their youth, I have to say that is not what I see in my world. We have worth to our husbands, our families, our friends, the people for whom we work, volunteer, mentor. I don’t need to reclaim my femininity – I never abandoned it.
    The fairy tale didn’t really work out for me either, as you may have read. I have always respected the Biblical directive that my husband should be the head of our family and accepted, gladly, my traditional role. My ex-husband let me down really badly, but I went along with it. I don’t see that I benefited at all from being “submissive,” but I accepted it as my wifely duty and went on with my life. It was more difficult than I can put into words.
    To someone like me who accepted her role, without question, and was then denied the right to personal fulfillment by the man who was supposed to cherish me and love me as Christ loved the church, the comments on here about how the breakdown in society is the fault of women are really hurtful. I reject that. I do agree that the breakdown of morals and the family structure has caused the wreckage of many individual lives.
    I’m sure this will generate another barrage of insulting comments … so be it. None of you knows me, and most of you are not interested in dialogue.
    Thank you, FF. I respect your right to your beliefs. I just think they are overstated.

  295. Connie says:

    @Opus

    Woman responds to man’s diatribe. Man ignores woman’s response and calls her names. Man is not interested in dialogue. Man is even less interested in facts. Nobody understands. Nobody wins.

  296. Stingray says:

    the comments on here about how the breakdown in society is the fault of women are really hurtful.

    None of you knows me,

    Connie,

    You are absolutely right. No one here knows you. By that logic, you can’t think for a moment that you are included in all of the comments here simply by virtue of being a woman. It won’t all apply to you, but much of it does apply to most women today. Yes, they are generalizations. The bloggers here are not going to write most or many or any other caveats for every post that they write because it’s tedious and the people reading should realize that it will never apply to every woman.

    However, as women, we have a tendency to personalize all of this stuff. We cal it solipsism. It’s in our nature. I’ve been reading these sites for three years now and I still do it. Every. Single. Time. I get over it in half a second from practice, but it’s still there. But what doesn’t apply to you, just doesn’t. It doesn’t mean that it doesn’t apply to many other women who are out of your personal sphere.

    You said that what Dalrock wrote about interests you. It should. Kate linked you to a guide at my site yesterday. If you really are here to learn and you have questions, ask away.

  297. FuriousFerret says:

    “I still don’t see any authority for saying that most women fit your stereotype any more than I see any authority for saying most men are losers. When you say most women don’t have any worth or value after their youth, I have to say that is not what I see in my world. We have worth to our husbands, our families, our friends, the people for whom we work, volunteer, mentor. I don’t need to reclaim my femininity – I never abandoned it.”

    In the great scheme of things, most men are losers and most women lose their value when their looks go away. In the macro, this is true.

    In that person’s own circle they CAN be a positive however the sheeple lack any kind of honest leadership. If you have read Animal Farm, most men are the workhorse ‘Boxer’ and most women are ‘Mollie’ seduced by ribbons and sugar cane provided by the pigs. These type of people are cogs. They don’t really have value in the world’s eyes beyond work and sex.

  298. L'addition says:

    Hmmm picturing Connie’s face…like a bulldog licking piss off a nettle, I suspect. Lips pursed with displeasure and yet…a certain gleeful look in the eyes and residual moisture elsewhere.

    What happens to some women that they head off to deliberately get insulted? Connie is far from the first around these here parts.

    I bet that the syndrome has an impressive name

  299. Anonymous Reader says:

    King A. Matthew King:
    You damn fools have zero sales technique.

    Oh, look, Matthew King has decided that he gets to pick who goes to Hell, and that’s everyone posting here. So finally the truth is out: Matthew King is Jesus. In his own mind, of course.

    Instead of seeing an intrigued person as an opportunity, you see her as a punching bag to get out your frustration; to revenge yourself upon her and hope to feel better.

    A woman wagging her finger in schoolmarm mode, telling off all the boys for blotting their copybooks, is not what I would call “intrigued”. But, to a pedestalizing woman-worshipper, I’m sure things look very different.

    I am a chief advocate for the legitimacy of your frustration,

    This is simply not true. It may or may not be a lie – someone who has decided he’s Jesus could be pretty delusional – but it is not true. It is trivial to demonstrate how false this statement is, merely by observing that it is King A. Matthew King posting on Dalrock’s site, and not the other way ’round. There are many, many men who are true advocates for the rights of men, and King A. Matthew “Jesus” King is not one of them.

    but you have to rise above your precious omega hatreds.

    Oh, looky, King A. “Jesus” Matthew has learned some words. Not the concepts, but some words. How exciting that must be for him, to learn words that men use. Now he can pretend even more…

    Allow yourself to be defined by aspirations — dress for the job you want, not the job you have — rather than by paranoia. If you were on my staff, you’d all be fired.

    Fortunately no one here is working on the night shift at whatever fast food driveup window that King A. Matthew “Jesus” King reigns over – part time. Therefore, there is no danger.

    But you are freelancers, so you will squat in and soil the territory of better men than you. All the more so when you are called out on it, because not only do you shit all over yourselves, you are perversely proud of the stink (or too ashamed to repent of your childish tantrums).

    That’s one way to view it. Another way to view it, as a former bartender, is this:

    A woman walks up to a bar with pickup trucks, beater Jeeps, motorcycles in various condition, a couple of European sports cars and a Lincoln in the parking lot. She marches into the bar, stands in the middle of the floor, and starts screaming at all the men present about how stupid they are, how smart she is, and how they should all just Man Up right now. Astoundingly, the men fail to snap to, but instead begin giving her grief right back in her face.
    Then a scrawny, underage nerd with acne walks by on the way to the night shift at Booger World, and sticks his head in and with his voice cracking, yells something about being nice to the nice lady and all you men are going to Hell if you don’t. Then he runs away.

    And some men sitting in the back, nursing their beverage of choice, just nod to themselves and say, “Yep. Another entitled, ignorant, woman who isn’t interested in learning, and her errand boy”.

    Connie came here because she thought she needed to vent.

    She did? Garsh, I wish I could read minds like that over the internet. Oh, wait, King’s decided he’s Jesus, so that goes with the territory. Never mind. Of course, the rest of us have to go by her words, and her words look like, well, the usual schoolmarm, “Man UP!” rant. Heard it before. Seen it before. Not impressive.

    Allow it, empathize with it, and thereby gain her ear. Then present your case.

    Eh? Why do that? Seems to me that King A. Matthew “I Am Jesus” King should be doing that, because after all, as he stated in this posting:

    I am a chief advocate for the legitimacy of your frustration,

    So get to work. You’re way behind schedule.

    But, of course, being a drive-by bloviator, he won’t…
    Heck, why should we? King A. Matthew “Jesus” King should be doing that for us, that is, if he’s really

  300. They Call Me Tom says:

    @Connie: I doubt anyone here is gaming you… but all the same, you are a case study in how most women cannot help but pursue any man who doesn’t fall down and worship them.

  301. Anonymous Reader says:

    Now, let us consider recent events in as abstract a manner as possible.
    This is primarily a place where men comment. It is, indeed, like a lodge, or a bar, or a big mansion with many rooms (libraries, plural, bar, meeting rooms, etc.) where men compare notes, swap stories, have raging fits of anger, tell jokes, share research results, and so forth. It is not intentionally hostile to women, however women are different from men despite generations of feminist claptrap to the contrary. The style of writing may be too devoid of prettiness, or too brash, or too pungent, or just too obnoxious, for some women to tolerate. There is nothing wrong with that. At least one of my dear, departed grandmothers would never set a metaphorical foot into this place; that job she would leave to her husband. However, she would also not have demanded that the men conduct themselves with lace-doily delicacy, either. She was old school enough to know when to leave men alone, unlike virtually all modern women. And that brings me to the next branch in my little tree of reason.

    To this somewhat intellectual, somewhat bawdy, somewhat religious, somewhat disreputable place, comes a woman who basically demands that the men hereabouts change to fit her tastes. Shockingly, diverse men tell her to go and fly a kite, in various ways.

    There are multiple responses to this, but two are worthy of examination:

    One person suggests that women should learn more before posting here, that they should not judge men’s speech by women’s standards, and that women should bend to fit the masculine nature of the place whether they like it or not.

    Another response chastises the men, calls them names, and demands that men should trim their words, and thus their thinking, to fit the feminine imperative, whether they like it or not.

    I leave to readers the task of discerning which path could lead to some communication, and which path is clearly just another example of pedestalizing, woman-worshipping beta-boy toe-licking.

  302. Höllenhund says:

    Connie is just a typical irritating Western cunt. ’nuff said. If she wants to vent about men, like the sisterhood normally does, she can find at least 1000 websites and comment threads to do so without any hindrance. She and her ilk has no place here.

  303. Opus says:

    In many ways Connie is indentikit with any of the other women (whose nomenklatures I forget) who turn up here every few days to ‘rearrange the furniture’ and tell us ‘how naughty’ we have been. Unlike those other women, Connie claims the intellectual high ground; even from her first post criticising our lack of ‘logical analysis’ and in support of this tells us that not only is she a lawyer [that is obviously meant not merely to impress but to intimidate] but that she came within a whisker of judicial appointment. Now Judges are as human as the next person and appointiment to the bench only seems (in my observation) to exacerbate those weaknesses, but the next time you read of some female Judge making the sort of Decision which seems Misandrist or downright anti-male, remember Connie.

  304. Matthew King says:

    Remind me who you are again, Anonymous Reader, and did my Hummer splash a puddle on your homeless mom’s shopping cart or something? O, what sub-articulate angst.

  305. L'addition says:

    King A’s attempts to not gather a following go from strength to strength. Victory is within reach here as it was on all the other blogs that he has left. Left alone.

    Meanwhile men flee from mangina lead churches in droves leading to a future catastrophe in attendance levels. King A simultaneously mystified yet incurious as to why. What a cowardly buffoon.

    Haven’t you got more important things to do than white knight for a bitch that broke in here unwanted and then demanded everything change to suit her? Why would you rather the churches die than recognise the issues and address them? You are a moral coward.

  306. Pingback: Upping Your Status With The Right Drink | The Badger Hut

  307. Connie says:

    @Opus

    Woman responds to man’s diatribe. Man ignores woman’s response and calls her names. Man is not interested in dialogue. Man is even less interested in facts. Nobody understands. Nobody wins.

    @Hollendhumd

    “She and her ilk has no place here.”

    You are so right. This is a blog written by a man is is alleged to be a Christian, yet a woman who stumbles in here unawares is called names (cunt, for example) and verbally abused because she dared to question some of your lame assertions that are presented without proof. You call this a mens’ club? I call it a snakepit, with apologies to snakes.

    Y’all think you are going to change the world; I doubt you can change your shorts without help – assuming you even care to do so.

    And, not that I expect a real answer, why are so many of the same men who claim to want a virtuous woman also regulars on Roosch V’s site. A man who has written ten books on “How To Get Laid” has not a freaking clue about how to meet a virtuous woman.

    So y’all just sit around and vent. Those of you who approach “men’s rights” like this will never accomplish a thing. Fine by me.

  308. Connie, we don’t care, really we don’t. For someone who doesn’t like it here, you sure seem to keep on coming back. If one keeps coming back for more, they must enjoy it. As for calling you names. The shoe fits honey, now go make a sandwich, it’s all your worth.

    You did not stumble here unawares, honey bun. You purposefully rode in here telling us how pathetic and evil we are. Seriously, you’re a deluded, a loose and jaded pussy holding, piece of shit. In a word, you’re vile.

  309. Connie says:

    @Feminist Hater …

    I notice you didn’t answer my question – why are so many of the same men who claim to want a virtuous woman also regulars on Roosch V’s site?

    Actually, I did stumble here unawares. I Googled Elizabeth Gilbert’s husband, and the second on the list was Dalrock’s post “Eat,Pray, Love: Where Are They Now?” I was shocked at the vitriol in the comments, so I clicked another random post (this one) to see if all the comments were like that. To my dismay, they were. But neither you, nor Opus, nor one other solitary soul has answered any of my questions.

    I was invited by Stingray to visit her post and ask questions. I read her introduction to the “manosphere” (something I had not known existed) for women. I asked questions. I’ve been reading. I’ve been trying to learn. Mostly what I’ve learned is that there is a huge community of angry men with too much time on their hands. It upsets me. I fear you will be dangerous – in a Boston Marathon sort of way – if you ever leave your computers long enough to organize.

    My husband says that I should not be upset by the angry mouthing off of a bunch of “dic*less pieces of sh*t.” I should probably heed his advice.

    I think YOU are vile. My $.002.

  310. Yes Connie shyster, I know you don’t have a high opinion of me. Oh dear?! What will I do? Oh gosh, you’re judging again Connie!!!

    I don’t really care to answer your questions. I stopped answering womens’ stupid questions long ago. However, you still don’t get it though. Stingray kindly gave a post on her blog, so that you could go ask your silly useless questions there instead of here and leave well enough alone. We simply just don’t exist to speak nicely to you, we just don’t.

    As a side note, I don’t visit Roosh and I don’t care to. If I was a betting man, I would take the fact that men seek help from a professed PUA because he gives sounder advise about interactions between men and women than Churchians and sluts.

    Your husband is right. Rather spend your finite time making him happy rather than making yourself angry by having a dialog with a bunch of pathetic, overgrown crybabies who hate women.

  311. East is Best says:

    “And, not that I expect a real answer, why are so many of the same men who claim to want a virtuous woman also regulars on Roosch V’s site. A man who has written ten books on “How To Get Laid” has not a freaking clue about how to meet a virtuous woman. ”

    I’ll say! In my country people think there is no prostitution in America because of “free sex”. I’m serious! They think anyone can have sex with anyone else, any where, any time. I have to explain to them that people CAN have sex PROVIDED the person they want to have sex with also wants to have sex with them. And of course public sex is illegal.

    I guess in a way they think there is no such thing as the crime of rape in America also because following their line of thinking – everyone is open to having sex with every body else, all the time, everywhere.

    Funny how the world’s peoples misunderstand each other, isn’t it?

  312. Connie says:

    @ FH

    “Your husband is right. Rather spend your finite time making him happy rather than making yourself angry by having a dialog with a bunch of pathetic, overgrown crybabies who hate women.”

    Couldn’t have said it better myself. Too bad I’m curious to see what y’all will say next. But my husband will not suffer a loss of my attentions. He’s worth a hundred of y’all.

  313. Oh, I’m sure he is, since you probably had to go through a hundred just to find him…

  314. Connie says:

    @FH

    He found me – as it should be.

  315. East is Best says:

    “He found me – as it should be.”

    My grandma always said a husband should desire/love his wife just slightly more than she desires/loves him. This is a survival mechanism in her culture where the wife has to live with her in-laws. That way the husband will side with his wife in any dispute and it will be 2 against the clan rather than just 1 lone woman against an angry mob.

  316. Connie says:

    @ East is Best …

    I LOVE your grandma!

  317. greyghost says:

    Feminist Hater
    Outstanding man You got her to call you a dickless piece of shit. It was dressed up as everybody but she was talking to you, vile one ha ha ha

  318. Connie says:

    @greyghost…

    I didn’t call y’all that. My husband did. And after I encouraged him to read the thread. He was generalizing. He doesn’t like to see his wife cry.

    I’m sure knowing y’all upset me will make most of you very happy.

  319. anonymous says:

    In my country people think there is no prostitution in America because of “free sex”. I’m serious! They think anyone can have sex with anyone else, any where, any time.

    An Indian cowoker tells me of a college classmate, also from India, who made this error. His idea of American sexuality came from TV, so, when he got to college in America he honestly thought that sex was really that easy to get…. that way…. and he tried… with very unpleasant results.

    He was repeatedly taken aside and warned, that his TV image of “easy” American girls, was just wrong. But he simply could not get it out of his head, and kept trying… and got expelled for sexual harassment, and returned in shame to India. Sad.

  320. Kate says:

    Connie: I’d be surprised if many men have actually read Eat, Pray, Love. If they had, they might know that her husband robbed her in the divorce and they would stop using it as an example of a typical divorce in which the man loses everything. Also, they were a childless couple.

    The phrase “eat, pray, love” has come to mean in this sphere a woman who tossed away a perfectly good man, stole his money and his children to travel and sleep with alphas. When in fact, what really happened was she got into a dysfunctional relationship after her marriage and then decided she would stay single for a year to learn how to be a better woman.

    She first went to Italy to learn Italian and get her weight up. The divorce depression diet hits a lot of women. She learned to eat again, which is symbolic of accepting life. Next, she went to India to get her spiritual self in alignment and find peace. Now perhaps Christians take issue with a deviant religious expression, but she was on a religious quest.

    Finally, without looking for it, love fell into her lap when she had reordered her life to be a better person. Once she was spiritually centered, she became whole.

    That is what the book is about. It constantly surprises me to see people dismiss it an example of a woman who divorces to go on a fuckfest.

  321. greyghost says:

    Connie
    a lot of emotional stress in having everything you have learned in life spoken of as bad. And also having people not treat you the way you were taught as civil. Treat your husband well and only concern yourself with his needs and you will find yourself feeling inner peace and the conversation here will feel affirming. Things in the west are going to get real bad real quick good thing you have a husband.

  322. Connie says:

    @Kate…

    That’s how I saw it. As I said, I first came to the “manosphere” when I Googled her ex-husband after I read the book – years after it was a best-seller. I saw trailers for the movie and wanted to see it – I like Julia Roberts. But I hate to see the movie first; so I listened to the audiobook, and I enjoyed it immensely. It seemed to me that she was painfully honest. I’m glad she and her ex are both happy now. I still think he’s a weenie, but I’m glad he’s a happy weenie.

  323. Connie says:

    @greyghost …

    I agree that my first duty is to make sure my husband knows that I look up to him as the head of our home, that his needs come first, and that I am his, and his alone. It does bring me peace. I doubt I will ever feel affirmed by people calling me horrible names.
    The world I grew up in disappeared before I graduated from college. I can relate.
    Thanks for being courteous.

  324. East is Best says:

    “An Indian cowoker tells me of a college classmate, also from India, who made this error. His idea of American sexuality came from TV, so, when he got to college in America he honestly thought that sex was really that easy to get…. that way…. and he tried… with very unpleasant results.

    He was repeatedly taken aside and warned, that his TV image of “easy” American girls, was just wrong. But he simply could not get it out of his head, and kept trying… and got expelled for sexual harassment, and returned in shame to India. Sad.”

    Right but American TV does not show people having sex with whomever, wherever and whenever. It shows people having sex with other people who want to have sex with them also, and usually within the context of some sort of relationship, even if it is pre-marital. And its usually in the privacy of a home or hotel room.

  325. Kate says:

    @Connie: My sister gave me the book not long after my divorce was final. I found it incredibly painful and depressing and I frankly don’t know what would possess someone to give it to a person who had just gotten divorced. It compounded the misery. I finally stopped reading it. Later on I finished it. I found the movie equally unpleasant. I remember talking with a co-worker about the book and she thought it was great. I said to her: “You aren’t divorced.” It really is an unnatural thing to divide two joined people. It truly felt to me like it was chopping off a piece of my body. It took about a year for my ex and I to be emotionally weaned from one another. Four and a half years later it is still painful to think about too much. I did, however, enjoy more parts of her book, Committed, which chronicled the history of Western marriage. One thing in particular that stuck out to me is how she felt women had to become their own fathers as old traditions of paternal protection were dwindling.

  326. greyghost says:

    Kate
    You are right paternal protection is gone due to divorce. (dad is gone at gun point) The trend now is no body needs a man. And that message is at every level from church to the white house. At this point in time by law marriage is a foolish thing for any man. Most of the mens blogs and what is said is primarily survival techniques for a man but reguardless of what is said any woman by law can end any marriage on her terms. Up to and including either herself or the police killing her husband. Every man that comments on mens blogs (women too) knows this. No father has a right or so so on any matter with his child unless given permission from the mother. This is a mans world and your son’s world if you have one. As more and more men realize this is the truth and not the lie of “male priviledge” equality under the law, the delusion of fairness, etc . etc. fewer men will commit to women. The end will be open hostility and violence towards any man or women that offends a man with nothing to lose without restrain. Men today take it, become drunks or commit suicide. Others walk away period and still others just become PUA knowing full well that is the best they will have in todays society. Other men prefer to believe the lie for it is more hopeful than reality and try to have a marriage and family against all odds. These men are nearly the most hated in western society. Only child molesters are treated with more contempt. These and many other reasons are why we have mens blogs. The government and women in general do not give a damn or can’t while imersed in the feminie imperative. (blue pill lie)
    What this blog discusses is relationships as pertains to christian faith or in todays world (based in law) churchian faith. All with a subroutine of laws of misandry.

  327. Kate says:

    greyghost: My great aunt always said when we were playing cards together: “The worm will turn.” We can’t chose when we were born, and this is a particularly bad time to be a man. However, that must and will change.

  328. Ton says:

    A man should never be foolish enough to love a woman. A man must understand at all times, a woman is not but a misstep or two from turning on him and that she must be managed at all times or she will gut him. This love stuff gets in a man’s way when it comes to managing a woman, sets a man up for failure and a woman for up for unhappiness. A man could and should feel warmly toward the women in his life, care for some of them, help order their lives, etc all, but “love” shifts power to the feral nature of women and leads to no where good.

    A man should save his love for creatures capable of returning it, children, dogs, horses, and for things with good track records of personal enjoyment/ faithful service to him like dogs, horses, firearms, bourbon, etc

  329. Pingback: Seduction To Wickedness (Part 2) | The Society of Phineas

  330. Kate says:

    Ton: I could agree to this: a man should never allow his love for a woman to overcome his management of her. (Just as a parent wouldn’t allow a child to do things that are wrong just because the child is “loved” or beautiful.) If fact, we could argue that if one partner lets the other do things that are not good for them, they don’t really love them. To me, this whole issue breaks down in that men and women define and express love differently. If women can understand men love them the way women love their children, it would make more sense.

  331. GKChesteron says:

    @Connie,

    You come in here, without having posted before, start swinging, and are surprised people hit back? Look, I’m generally recognized as having white knight tendencies here, but you CALLED PEOPLE OUT BY NAME. I _don’t like MackPUA_. Not even a little. But if you swing at him don’t expect him to ball up and cry. You also blew over both Dalrock’s commenting and say…mine. So now let’s get to the bio…

    I’m sure you are the only person on here who cares to know more about me

    Cry me a river…we’ll start out with this being irrelevant and then it being untrue.

    I’m a white female who recently celebrated my 50th birthday. I am a Christian and a Southern Baptist and, for the most part, a Republican

    50, belongs to what can be seen as the most gnostic of the American groups, and is a nominal conservative. Check.

    I am a lawyer who works hard for all my clients, about 40% of whom are male. I have no children, even though I wanted them desperately, because my ex-husband changed his mind about having a family after we were married.

    Why did he change his mind? Did you talk about children? How many did he say he wanted to have? What was his favorite thing about kids? My guess is that answers to these questions would have made his true intent clear. My guess is you didn’t ask to many.

    He did this even though I asked him when he proposed if he was really sure he wanted to start over with another baby or two when his son had just turned twenty; he assured me that he did.

    Here is our first Klaxon warning. He _already had kids_? Why did he already have kids? While we are keen here on female virginity being the most important male virginity also matters. If he has had kids some sex has happened and _not_ with you. Why did this sex happen? Was he married when you two got involved and were you the other woman? The Christian position on re-marriage even amongst the most liberal groups (and I count Baptists in that number) is at best hesitant. Did he have grounds for divorce or were you engaging him in what Christians view as adultery?

    I put his happiness before my own, and when we divorced thirteen years later,

    While you don’t say _when_ the divorce is in the current timeline you do imply that it happened not too long ago. Worst case then this places the marriage at 36. My guess is it was when you were around 30, yes? If so why did you wait so long to get married?

    it was too late for me. Being childless is my biggest regret, but having made the decision to stay with him – because I loved him more than my dearest dream – I went to law school so I could do something else worthwhile with my life.

    And this is why I guess that the marriage occurred somewhere post-30. What were you doing from 20-30? If kids were a primary concern why didn’t you get married to someone in this time period?

    I was an assistant prosecutor for nine years, an appointed prosecutor for one. For the past six years, I have practiced primarily family law.

    This math doesn’t seem to add up. So were you going to law school when you met the husband in question?

    As a prosecutor, I learned that evil has no gender. As a family lawyer, I have learned that there is generally enough blame to go around when a marriage ends.

    Ack! No. Usually there is a “party at fault”. At least that’s what we assumed for millennia and what the Bible assumes. Evil is in fact genderless (Mel Gibson made a brilliant call there). This site is dedicated to calling that out since we have a cultural tendency to ignore when women sin.

    My proudest moment as a prosecutor was winning two convictions against a man who had sex with his daughter and then brought home a friend to have sex with her. It was all the sweeter for going against the attorney he chose, not just because he was a top ten trial lawyer who started practicing law the year I was born, but because he successfully represented the Catholic Church in several civil suits arising from priests’ molesting children.

    An aside, was the man _actually_ her father. That is her _biological_ father. If so then it was indeed a rare case. Such cases represent a fraction of all abuse cases and therefore less than 1% of the total population. My guess is that he was the step-dad, something that the folks on this site note as a serious problem. If so you’ve also misrepresented the case. And what, the Catholics aren’t allowed to have lawyers? Bigoted much?

    …I told him that the law was black and white, not pink and blue, and he laughed at me.

    First, good for defending the boy, and while I poke holes at how you describe the other situation, good for defending the girl. However, you are wrong here. The Law is, has been, and will likely be for all future time, pink and blue. Or as I like to think of it, blue and pink. There is, for example, no serious rape statute for men as victims in the Old Testament. This is done for good reason. Men and women are not the same and the Law in the West has generally supposed this self-evident fact to be true. Some here want blue and pink to be the same, which would require serious changes in law such as striking down the Violence Against Women Act. I on the other hand find such a thing ludicrous as it would enshrine irrationality into law (even though I oppose the VAWA). Your very comments here _assume_ that women should be treated _differently_ than men. Three cheers for that. However that means when women walk into largely male areas they should be aware the rules have changed, which you most certainly did not.

    who cussed were immature junior high boys.

    See, boys are different except when you want them to act a certain way…and then they must be changed to fit your needs. That ‘mam is a problem.

    I was shocked, then offended, and finally downright aggravated by all the vitriolic posts about women.

    Then for a lawyer your reading comprehension is low. Elsbeth (a woman) is fairly well respected here. There is an older commenter that goes by Gerp who is downright worshiped (also a woman). Sunshine Mary who has an excellent blog is also largely well received. When women, like in the OP, act like cheap hussies though they aren’t spoken well of. If you want hussies to be spoken well of, a word that still sees some use in the South, you’ve come to the wrong place.

    I resent being despised for being a female. I have never been a “feminist,” although I believe in some of their goals.

    Then you are a feminist and exist in opposition to pretty clear Christian anthropology. If you want to list some beliefs you hold in common with feminism we will be more than happy to show you the error of your ways.

    I have never wanted to be a man. I was raised on traditional male and female roles;

    Feminism denies that there are natural distinctions between men and women (most of the time) so what parts of feminism do you endorse again?
    I am somebody who challenges statements that “women especially continue to believe they can defy the laws of God without consequence,”

    You look at the world and believe this is untrue? I’ll quibble with “especially” but something tells me that if it was restated as “men continue to believe they can defy the laws of God without consequence,” you would have no problem.

    “The average woman would be better off under a patriarchy.” Where is the authority for those statements?

    The Bible? St. Paul’s letter to the Ephesians? We can start there since you said you were a Christian. Was Sarah put upon for having the Patriarch Abraham? She didn’t seem to think so. How about something objective:
    http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/351999?uid=3739560&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102191225047

    Women have continued to report less and less happiness in their lives since the sexual revolution and the near collapse of patriarchy. Congrats, when you fight God you tend to lose. Such is the nature of things.

    Finally, I am not someone who judges all men based on the actions of a few.

    You misrepresent here. Or are being foolish. Both are a possibility. If _most_ men behave a certain way you would be a fool to not stereotype that action as belonging to the realm of men qua men. Likewise if most women act a a certain way you would be a fool to not stereotype that action as belonging to the realm of women. These types are given by God (“man and woman he created them”) and were traditionally enforced very strictly (cross dressing for a man was punishable by death in the OT while women crossing into certain male areas was likewise punishable by death).

    My birth father broke my fingers and burned me with a hot iron before I was eighteen months old; I will forever bear the scars. I don’t judge all men by him. My first love cheated on me. I don’t judge all men by him. A man I thought I loved slapped me for stating my opinion and knocked out a tooth. I don’t judge all men by him. So, I am somebody who thinks that I, too, am entitled to be judged on my own merits.

    Good Lord almighty, if even _half_ of that is true then you should never have married. I don’t judge them by it but it seems you have terrible taste in men likely formed by your father. As a former pastor I’ve seen women like that and strongly encouraged them to think of themselves as married to God and avoid selecting men for marriage. To this day not a one has listened and all of them are miserable.

  332. Your Mama says:

    Joke’s on you, boys. You were all born out of a filthy, whore vagina! All bloodied up, pubes everywhere. Oh the humanity! Oh the gore.

    I hope all of you idiot fucks get run over by Guinness trucks. “Oh, it was literally the drink that killed him!”

    Why don’t you Darwin awards all suck each other’s needles dicks and just come out of the mutha fuckin’ closet already.

    #Manosphere=HOMO

  333. anonymous says:

    GKC to Connie: if even _half_ of that [story of abuse] is true then you should never have married… it seems you have terrible taste in men likely formed by your father. As a former pastor I’ve seen women like that and strongly encouraged them to think of themselves as married to God and avoid selecting men for marriage. To this day not a one has listened and all of them are miserable.

    Isn’t there some way to “fix” them, heal them, so they can select nice guys instead of jerks?

    Since, as a practical reality, none of them will accept your counsel to stay single anyway?

  334. Connie says:

    @Mr. Chesterton:

    You are right – I was defensive and started in prosecutorial mode. But I really did want to know.

    I don’t know why my husband changed his mind about having children. He acknowledged that if, before marriage, he had made it clear that he did not want any, and I had said okay and then changed MY mind, he would feel ill used. I begged him to tell me why; he said he just did.

    He had been divorced for twelve years. I was not the other woman. She divorced him because she was unhappy that he worked so many hours and was gone so often.

    We were divorced in 2005 after a year of separation. We married in 1992 when I was 32. I had also been married before; when I was 23, I married a third year law student six days after I graduated from college. Before we had been married three years, he decided he should have married his college sweetheart instead, so at 26, I was divorced. We didn’t have kids yet because he wasn’t ready.

    I started law school in 1994, after the ex said no kids. I needed something else in my life.

    Yes, the man I prosecuted was her biological father. He was a sick, sick, sick man. The dauther he had sex with had a twin – he was trying to set her up with a lesbian.Yes, Catholics are allowed to have lawyers, but I hate that the Church pleads ignorance of the wretched things their priests did.

    The only goal of feminism that I have (knowingly) largely supported is equal pay for equal work. I support laws against sexual harassment but not to the extreme the way they are now.

    I would not quibble with even men and women continue to believe they can defy the laws of God without consequence. I quibbled with the “especially women.”

    Maybe I am foolish. I think stereotyping is another form of bigotry when you use it to malign an entire race, gender, ethnicity, religion, based on the actions of some of that group.

    It is all true. Obviously, I did choose wrong the first two times I married. But I like being married, I like being a wife, and I really, really wanted children. I am happily married now – it’s not perfect, but I love him, he loves me, we’ve built a life together, and it works.

    I’ll get back to you on the patriarchy. I do recall that twice Abraham told Sarah to pose as his sister, even to the point of being taken sexually by other men, and that God intervened both times to save her.

    Thank you for the discussion.

  335. WWW says:

    @Edge

    It short, I feel like I am up against his “faith”. Not that I want him to stop being a Christian, I just want him to recognize that she has done this to him, not God.

    Good for you. I’m a believer myself, and your exposing this woman is the right thing to do — firstly because she should be disciplined by the church immediately (and probably kicked out, since there’s no way a genuine follower of Christ continues to live such a wicked life), and secondly because Jesus said “do unto others as you would have done unto you”. If you were in that position, you’d want to know just what you’d got yourself into.

    I’d like to discuss ideas with you about how best to proceed. Unfortunately, I’ve only just come across your comment. Let me know if you’re still around here, and we’ll talk…

  336. anonymous says:

    Edge: …she was gang-banging a couple of guys from a different race while they were together, before marriage. Turns out, she never stopped after they were married. She used to send me racy pictures of her and want to hookup with me as well, but I wasn’t interested.

    She kept right on gang banging these two guys, and sure enough, ended up getting pregant. Now she had a bi-racial baby, and of course to hide it, she had to tell her man that she was raped and this guy is stuck raising the child

    Edge, if you want to inform him, and you feell you need some evidence — do you still have any of the racy pictures?

    Failing that, send him an email link to this thread.

    Dude, your wife is mentioned here:
    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/04/12/started-with-a-bang-ended-with-a-whimper/#comment-79121

  337. anonymous says:

    Edge — one more thing — if you know the NAMES of the 2 gangbang partners of this good Christian wife, that would be *very, very useful* for DNA TESTING when the divorce hits.

  338. @Connie:

    This is much, much better. You stuck to facts and kept your cool. I have been watching this play out since you posted here originally. Stick around, keep a thick skin, and keep your eyes open. Ask your husband for his insight on some of the things you find here. Be aware that he may not be completely honest if he fears to offend: allay his fears, and mean it (as in, don’t hold it against him if he says something unpleasant to contemplate).

  339. Connie says:

    @seriouslypleasedropit…

    Thank you. Will do.

  340. East is Best says:

    “she was gang-banging a couple of guys…”

    “She kept right on gang banging these two guys…”

    The above use of the world gang bang is probably not accurate.

    Free Dictionary defines it as such;

    gang·bang or gang-bang (gngbng)
    n. Vulgar Slang
    1. Sexual intercourse, often rape, involving one person or victim and several others who have relations with that person in rapid succession.
    2. Sexual intercourse involving several people who select and change partners.
    v. gang·banged or gang-banged, gang·bang·ing or gang-bang·ing, gang·bangs or gang-bangs
    v.intr.
    1. Vulgar Slang To participate as an aggressor in a gangbang.
    2. Slang To participate in violent gang-related activities.
    v.tr. Vulgar Slang
    To subject to a gangbang.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gangbang

  341. anonymous says:

    “An Indian cowoker tells me of a college classmate, also from India…His idea of American sexuality came from TV,…

    Right but American TV does not show people having sex with whomever, wherever and whenever. It shows people having sex with other people who want to have sex with them

    Don’t get me wrong, This guy did not attempt rape. He simply thought that consensual encounters were a LOT easier to get, than they actually are. And he was relentless, even when told that his approaches were wrong.

    He might have mistaken some comedic situations for real American romantic dynamic. How often have you seen an encoutner on TV and said to youself, “In real life she would have slapped him, or filed a complaint about him”? He apparently did not know the difference — how could he, having never lived here?

    and usually within the context of some sort of relationship, even if it is pre-marital

    Um… no,. not always. Not by a long shot. And often on-screen depictions of “relationships” BEGIN with sex, so he might have thought that seduction was the path to getting a girlfriend. (IRL, of course it occasionally is… but more often not.)

  342. anonymous says:

    Connie,

    May respectfully suggest that both you and your husband read this classic post:
    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/04/26/advice-to-a-single-woman-in-her-30s-looking-to-marry/
    And ask yourself — does it ring true? and do I wish I’d been told this when I was younger?

    As to the anger at women you see on this board — you have to realize that this board attracts a lot of men,GOOD men, who have been *really badly burned* by women. They didn’t start off hating, they started off loving. Badboys, the true misogynists, seldom bother showing up here.

  343. East is Best says:

    anonymous, “Don’t get me wrong, This guy did not attempt rape. He simply thought that consensual encounters were a LOT easier to get, than they actually are. And he was relentless, even when told that his approaches were wrong.

    He might have mistaken some comedic situations for real American romantic dynamic. How often have you seen an encoutner on TV and said to youself, “In real life she would have slapped him, or filed a complaint about him”? He apparently did not know the difference — how could he, having never lived here?”

    He was acting the way many men in India itself act toward Indian women.

    Its appearantly called “eve teasing” and is creating a lot of social problems;
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eve_teasing

    Some Indians are blaming not American media, but Indian Bollywood films for this.

    Although it probably has something to do with the sexual repression that arises when there is no dating culture and marriages are arranged.

  344. anonymous says:

    East, that’s a pretty good point. I’ve heard of Eve-teasing but I didn’t make the connection to this story. It’s quite probable that was part of the problem.

    Although it probably has something to do with the sexual repression that arises when there is no dating culture and marriages are arranged.

    Dating culture, post-1960s (when the taboo on premarital sex largely collapsed in the West), has become rather toxic, and ends up “sexually repressing” a large percentage of males, who should be marrying at 20 but are instead forced to wait til 30 or later…. while their future wives party with a small core group of the hottest and least ethical men. (The marriage-focused dating culture of my parents is practiced by only small minority today).

    Compared to the current Western mess, an arranged marriage at 19 sounds pretty darned good.

  345. Connie says:

    @Anonymous…

    You certainly may suggest. Actually, I had already read it, trying to get a sense of this corner of the world. I read it again at your suggestion. It mostly sounds like good advice to me – the blog, not the comments. I doubt it would have been of much use to me. I married the first time at 23 after I’d known him almost two years. I worked full time and did all the housework, laundry, shopping and cooking. I’ve never known why he started pining for his college sweetie. She came down to live with him after we separated, and it didn’t work out for them either. Just sad.
    I married the second time to a man whose masculinity, self-confidence, sense of humor, way with horses, and openness with his feelings attracted me. He wasn’t especially good looking in a conventional sense, but I thought he was as sexy as they come. He was never able to tell me why he changed his mind about wanting kids. Sometimes, it still keeps me up nights. .

  346. East is Best says:

    “Compared to the current Western mess, an arranged marriage at 19 sounds pretty darned good.”

    You wouldn’t say that if you were Indian. 😉

    And the marriages are not arranged at 19. Indian men are passing their early and mid 20s unmarried, without girlfriends and very frustrated. After marriage they continue to be frustrated if they are married to women whom they do not find sexually appealing and who also do not find them sexually appealing. Even if they do find each other sexually appealing the couples has virtually no privacy in the extended family household where a mere affectionate holding of hands or a flirty slap on the *ss is forbidden. Forget about “hot, explosive, passionate marital sex”. Its just not happening in a culture where the groom’s parents/bride’s in-laws accompany newly weds on their honeymoons!

    Leslie Bell, “Flings/hookups are fun, and even (feel) empowering when a woman is young and in the SMP power position; each new encounter is further proof that she holds the veto power over men. However, when the men are the ones doing the vetoing empowerment turns into a never ending round of rejection. Instead of having men pursue her she finds herself being passed around, if not passed over.”

    Easily solved. Hook-up in the first few years of college, then get serious about finding “the one” in the final few. Look for older men who are already graduated and working. That’s easy to do now with internet dating opening up new markets for love across age ranges, cultures and races.

    Its basically an age thing. Considering the fertile window a woman will want to be at least engaged by her late 20s tops, preferrably mid. That means she has to limit her hooking up to her late teens and early 20s and get serious about husband hunting around 23.

    Its advisable to cast our nets far and wide and not be myopic. That means while we shouldn’t write our college co-ed male peers completely off, we should also be open to meeting men even as much as 7 years old than us.

    Our young co-ed peers can be used as “hook ups”, while older more mature men can be targetted for serious love and commitment.

    I’m not a hooker upper myself, but I’ve noticed in America college is thought to be a time of partying and getting laid as opposed to serious academic study. That being the case, it is incumbent upon college students to compartmentalise and schedule a life plan that is congruent with the fertility window.

  347. anonymous says:

    East: Forget about “hot, explosive, passionate marital sex”. Its just not happening in a culture where the groom’s parents/bride’s in-laws accompany newly weds on their honeymoons!

    But… this is the culture that produced the Kama Sutra!

    I’ve noticed in America college is thought to be a time of partying and getting laid as opposed to serious academic study.

    Not for science, engineering, & math… useful stuff. We have to work like crazy in college.

    That being the case, it is incumbent upon college students to compartmentalise and schedule a life plan that is congruent with the fertility window.

    Skipping the hookup phase altoghether, in this age of rampant disease, is the wisest course. I’m hoping to get my boys married off before they are 20…to girls they actually LIKE….

  348. East is Best says:

    “Not for science, engineering, & math… useful stuff. We have to work like crazy in college. ”

    But most Americans college students are not taking those courses. I highly doubt the “SWUGS” and their male counterparts are.

    “I’m hoping to get my boys married off before they are 20…to girls they actually LIKE….”

    How do you plan to accomplish this feat?

  349. anonymous says:

    Cultivating business skills at an early age, self employment, advanced homeschooling and online learning…

    And keeping in touch with a lot of like minded families that have daughters, to give the boys a wide range of choices/chances.

  350. East is Best says:

    Well, if you are living in a community or sub-culture where other kids are being raised in the same manner then it just might work! Do you see any examples of the kids-turned-now-adults in your community marrying each other? How is that working out for them?

    Are you familiar with an American religious organization by the name of ISKCON? They arranged a lot of young marriages back in the 70s and early 80s. I wonder how that worked out?

  351. anonymous says:

    ISKCON

    International society for Krishna consciousness…. yep, heard of them. Not interested. No false gods allowed in my house.

    Well, if you are living in a community or sub-culture where other kids are being raised in the same manner then it just might work!

    Evangelical Christian homeschool subculture, yes.

    Do you see any examples of the kids-turned-now-adults in your community marrying each other

    I personally know several couples who married quite young and are happy together, decades later. 2 brothers in law, married their highschool sweethearts; granted they finished college first but still they tied the knot at 21-22, and more importantly they FOUND their mates as teenagers. Before they had a chance to get corrupted.

    [ISKON] arranged a lot of young marriages back in the 70s and early 80s. I wonder how that worked out?

    I don’t care. We’re not “arranging”., we’re simply making it POSSIBLE. The choice is theirs.

  352. Connie says:

    @East is Best

    I think you mean Rev. Moon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon

    There are some links following up on those marriages, but, IMHO, those people were brainwashed by him, so the results may not be a reliable indicator of all arranged marriages.

  353. GKChesteron says:

    @Connie

    He had been divorced for twelve years. I was not the other woman. She divorced him because she was unhappy that he worked so many hours and was gone so often.

    He had been divorced twelve years and was interested in women so I’ll assume he was dating and probably fornicating so his desire to not have children does not seem surprising. You made a poor choice. Again, I’d have preferred if you just swore off men or relied on some familial arranged marriage scenario.

    Before we had been married three years, he decided he should have married his college sweetheart instead, so at 26, I was divorced. We didn’t have kids yet because he wasn’t ready.

    Why did he feel this? It just seems odd…

    I hate that the Church pleads ignorance of the wretched things their priests did.

    Hardly. The reason we _have_ pederasty laws is because the Church made an ancient and honored practice illegal. Unfortunately post-60’s it was in a bad place, much like the very conservative protestant group I belonged to. The result was a bunch of people in power making really poor decisions. It is hard to condemn the person you golf with on the words of some kid you usually don’t like. Worse, Christianity assumes a level of reform and confidentiality that made the Crisis a sort of perfect nightmare.

    Benedict, then Ratzinger’s, increase of the statute of limitations for these cases and the allowance of direct appeal to Rome also indicated that many people wanted to fix the problem. Yes, perps like Mahoney got off relatively unscathed, but people tend to underestimate how federated Church governance really is.

    The only goal of feminism that I have (knowingly) largely supported is equal pay for equal work. I support laws against sexual harassment but not to the extreme the way they are now.

    This assumes women work equally, which we know is untrue for a host of reasons (and the good anti-feminists of yore like Phyllis Schlafly made a good case as to why). And no, don’t take my word for it, read the economic studies on the same. It even goes so far, from a Christian perspective, to assume God was only joking with the division of labor involved in pro-creation that he made with our own bodies. I tend to assume that he wasn’t. Also if you want to read a woman who has made the argument again recently you can read the Thinking Housewife on the US Forestry (http://www.thinkinghousewife.com/wp/2012/06/how-feminism-wrecked-the-u-s-forest-service/).

    Maybe I am foolish. I think stereotyping is another form of bigotry when you use it to malign an entire race, gender, ethnicity, religion, based on the actions of some of that group.

    This is foolish liberal-modernism making its way into your thinking. Let’s assume I say the word “bird”. What did you think of? Did it have feathers? Wings? Could it fly? How big was it? If presented with the word bird, and we know this through study, most people will pick in their head something that looks much like a sparrow. Not an ostrich or an owl, a sparrow. This allows us to fashion ideas about the topic “birds” that would be otherwise impossible. Yes, sparrow’s are smaller than owls and can fly unlike ostriches but if we didn’t have the concept of “birds” then we couldn’t think. I can’t remember the name of the book that discusses this but it is well worth reading and I’m sure someone here _does_ remember the name and is a re-iteration of Aristotle’s discussion of archetypes.

    It is all true. Obviously, I did choose wrong the first two times I married. But I like being married, I like being a wife, and I really, really wanted children. I am happily married now – it’s not perfect, but I love him, he loves me, we’ve built a life together, and it works.

    One of the other things that Dalrock, Cane Caldo, myself and a few others will comment on is that Christian Marriage has little to do with love as understood by moderns. Generally when people say they are “in love” they mean some form of eros. Christian love is about agape and eros is an extra bonus that won’t always be there. If by your comment you mean you have achieved self-sacrificing love then I applaud you but caution that the Bible takes a dim view of remarriage and that you may be in a state that carries no divine endorsement. If by your comment you mean romantic love I pity what may be a repeat divorce performance.

    I’ll get back to you on the patriarchy. I do recall that twice Abraham told Sarah to pose as his sister, even to the point of being taken sexually by other men, and that God intervened both times to save her.

    Sarah was praised for calling Abraham “Lord in her heart”. Something for which the Church has memorialized her for several thousand years. That Abraham made some stupid decisions to save his skin does not change the natural order of men and women. This is another point you will find _often_ discussed here. The failures of our mates _does not_ relieve us of our respective responsibilities to God as exercised through the marriage. You married God (three times it seems…which is why I find any divorce and remarriage silly and contra to the established traditions of the Church) and he is very tough on those that make light of their oaths to him and do not repent from the same.

    You certainly may suggest. Actually, I had already read it, trying to get a sense of this corner of the world. I read it again at your suggestion. It mostly sounds like good advice to me – the blog, not the comments.

    The comments in the ‘sphere are rather wild. You will read a lot of bad stuff. Including here. There are many that are dealing with quite a bit of anger, then there are those of us who are happily married (reaching near two decades now) and would rather not have society collapse on our children which is where feminism, including in the one area you agree with, leads. I love my daughter and my son too much to see that happen.

    That being said, even where the comments are angry, they usually contain good information. You would be unwise to casually discard them.

    @Boxer,

    I thought you were a Christian? I’m wrong?

  354. East is Best says:

    “I think you mean Rev. Moon.”

    No I mean ISKCON, The Hare Krishnas. I think Rev. Moon performed mass weddings that he arranged. ISKCON didn’t do mass weddings. I don’t think it worked out well for them though since it takes a certain cultural background to stick with it. And from what reading I’ve done, they appeared to have arranged the marriages in haphazard ways for all the wrong reasons.

    “Again, I’d have preferred if you just swore off men or relied on some familial arranged marriage scenario.”

    That made me laugh. Unless I’m missing some context here and you two actually know each other in an intimate or familial way. What does it matter what random strangers on internet blogs prefer or don’t prefer about other strangers’ personal lives?

  355. East is Best says:

    “One of the other things that Dalrock, Cane Caldo, myself and a few others will comment on is that Christian Marriage has little to do with love as understood by moderns. Generally when people say they are “in love” they mean some form of eros. Christian love is about agape and eros is an extra bonus that won’t always be there. ”

    Agape and eros are not Biblical terms, though you are correct that during that era in that part of the world people did not marry for romance. They married out of a sense of duty toward family and society that would have been instilled in them from a very young age. If the couple by chance fell in love during the course of their marriage, that would have been icing on the cake, but completely unnecessary for the purpose of marriage and family at the time.

  356. GKChesterton says:

    While it is true that eros does not appear it is not true that agape or its cognates does not appear. Eros is also used by the Fathers.

  357. This is for dalrock. My name is terrence popp, I love this blog, its very insightfull. I run and started redonkulas.com I am doing video humor on many subjects about dating, middle ages and such. i would be honored if you could share any observations you have on the feminist agendy and the actual nutering of its self by cutting women off from men. I have an alt email, standupdude a.t ya hoo. you cant believe the amount of comedy material I gather from internet dating.

  358. Rommel says:

    Today, I watched Matt King get OWNED by Anonymous Reader. Hahaha. And Matt getting all butthurt about it. Matt, the purple Kool Aid is over there, you culty freak.
    That was even more satisfying than watching Attention Whore Connie get put in her place.
    Well Done, Sirs!

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