Harming your kids for attention and profit.

Not all women are cut out to be professional divorcées.  While she may lack talent and want to be a writer, a woman may find she never pretended to make a lifelong commitment.  Such women are often relegated to the role of professional spinster, and have to elbow it out with the likes of Kate Bolick and Lori Gottlieb.  This is the nature of the world;  not everyone can be a fashion editor, and credentials matter.

Even if a woman finds she meets all three essential requirements, there is still the question of what type of professional divorcée she should be.  Everyone’s favorite of course is the empowerment divorcée, but this adds the prerequisite of having a foreign man marry you for a visa.  Elizabeth Gilbert made it look easy when she found an old guy to marry her for a visa so she could write her blockbuster divorce empowerment book/movie Eat Pray Love.  Before that, Terry McMillan set the gold standard by having a gay man marry her for a visa and writing about it in How Stella Got Her Groove Back.

But what if you didn’t manage to have an old dude or a gay man marry you for a visa after divorcing?  While you can’t join the ranks of professional empowerment divorcées, you still meet the basic requirements;  there is no need to forego the opportunity to make your lack of marital commitment your springboard to fame and fortune.  After all, who had ever heard of Sandra Tsing Loh before she joined the ranks of professional divorcées?  She had been writing for years as a professional unhappy working woman, professional harried mom, and professional unhappy wife, but becoming a professional divorcée was her ticket to the big show.

The problem is there is no shortage of women who lack talent, want to be a writer, and pretended to make a lifelong commitment.  While modern women have created a massive market with their shameless collective obsession with divorce, there is still only room for so many professional divorcées.  Modern women may be fickle when it comes to sacred vows, but they won’t settle for anything but the best when it comes to reading about divorce.  As a result the go-to female writing technique of baring their souls isn’t enough here.  To stand out, a divorcée must be willing to sell her soul.  Simply divorcing and then telling all won’t cut it anymore.  Want to make an impression?  Your divorce has to harm children, preferably your own.  Better yet, announce that your divorce not only harmed your children, it was frivolous.  This way millions of women can feast vicariously on your obscene sense of self pity, the trail of wreckage you leave in your wake, and your intense solipsism.

Sandrah Tsing Loh is no slouch, but if you want to observe the master at work you really need to witness Susan Gregory Thomas.  Ms. Gregory Thomas exploded onto the professional divorcée scene in mid 2011 with her seminal book In Spite of Everything: A Memoir and its accompanying piece in The Wall Street Journal The Divorce Generation.

Ms. Gregory Thomas masterfully spends the first two thirds of her lengthy WSJ piece recounting how devastated she and her peers were by the divorces of their parents, and explaining how as a result she vowed never to do the same to her own children.

For much of my generation—Generation X, born between 1965 and 1980—there is only one question: “When did your parents get divorced?” Our lives have been framed by the answer. Ask us. We remember everything.

Our suburb was littered with sad-eyed, bruised nomads, who wandered back and forth between used-record shops to the sheds behind the train station where they got high and then trudged off, back and forth from their mothers’ houses during the week to their fathers’ apartments every other weekend.

I can’t help feeling that every divorce, in its way, is a re-enactment of “Medea”: the wailing, murderously bereft mother; the cold father protecting his pristine, new family; the children: dead.

She tells us that the impact of her parent’s divorce on her was so profound, she is like a war orphan:

After hearing about my background for some time, my distinguished therapist made an announcement: “You,” she said, “are a war orphan.”

She explains that she and her husband were determined not to inflict the same harm on their own children:

..those of us who survived the wreckage of split families were determined never to inflict such wounds on our children. We knew better. We were doing everything differently, and the fundamental premise was simple: “Kids come first” meant that we would not divorce.

At this point my audience may be somewhat confused.  You promised us a professional divorcée, a woman who is willing to feed her kids to the meat grinder for attention and profit.  Why are you telling us about this woman who loves her kids enough to honor her marriage vows and resist the siren call to evict their father from the house?  But this is where the true genius of Susan Gregory Thomas becomes evident.  She may lack the talent needed to make it as an honest writer, but she is a master at playing the gruesome game of selling out her own children for status and drama.  Once she has made an airtight case that only a monster would frivolously divorce knowing how it would devastate her children, she coolly tells us that is exactly what she did four years ago.

She spends the rest of the piece explaining how her divorce (as she just told us about her marriage) will be different and won’t harm her kids.  While she and her peers had to deal with the trauma of parents remarrying and shuttling from household to household, her children will benefit from a joint custody arrangement and the fact that their parents are still primarily focused on being parents.

In the fall of 2011 she followed up with a piece in the New York Times titled The Good Divorce.  She starts by explaining again how against divorce she is, how damaged she personally was as a child by divorce, and how she has discovered the key to divorcing without harming her children.  But this kind of story won’t sell copy.  The audience demands something gruesome to feast on, and Ms. Gregory Thomas delivers.  She explains that as a result of her frivolous divorce her children experienced financial hardship*, the depression of a parent (her), and the shuttling between two households.  In case we miss the significance of this, she points to studies showing that these are the very things which most damage children following divorce.  She then proceeds to share anecdotes of how her children were harmed:

As if on cue, our older child had had a very difficult third-grade year, two years ago, in which she was at the vortex of a mean-girl. She’d always had an entrenched sense of justice, but when she perceived that a classmate had deeply violated her code, the propulsion of her hate-mongering was breathtaking. Her father and I were dumbfounded: “Heathers” — really?

Then, our younger one had reading and math problems. We couldn’t understand: She was so bright, so eager to learn, had such an allusive imagination. What was the problem?

One bright side to this is her own children won’t have to tell their stories to therapists as she herself did;  the therapists and everyone they know will have already read all about them.

In July of this year Ms. Gregory Thomas wrote a piece on wives who outearn their husbands:  When the Wife Has a Fatter Paycheck.  You may be thinking “Finally, an honest piece of writing, not another round of it’s all about me.”  Maybe someday, but not with this piece.  This one turns out to be about how she personally suffers now that she is at the 8th and final step of having it all.  The problem?  In her bid to remarry after putting her kids through the meat grinder, she had to make a few concessions.  For reasons she doesn’t explain, it seems that her secret multimillionaire hunky handyman failed to appear:

Like millions of my sisters, this puts me smack in the middle of a distinctively modern dilemma: how to handle the tensions of a marriage between an alpha woman and a beta man.

My husband, an antiques restorer whose field has all but evaporated as a result of the recession, does his best to help with chores and child care, while earning enough to pay utilities and car-insurance bills. I’m the one who works an octopus-armed 12- to 14-hour day, often seven days a week.

All great divorce tales are stories of rebirth, and Ms. Gregory Thomas has metamorphasised from largely unknown writer to Alpha Woman in her role as professional divorcée.  Writing articles and a book about how you failed your children is a full time job, and the clear mark of a strong independent woman.

*In her web page Ms. Thomas claims authorship of the blog Broke-Ass Grouch, and a recent blog post confirms this.  While I don’t doubt that she and her children have experienced financial hardship as a result of her frivorce, I’m not convinced that she lives in the ghetto, raises chickens for eggs, and makes her own cheese as she claims.  I suspect this is just part of her octopus armed attempt to make it as a writer.  One of the reviewers of her “memoir” on Amazon writes that she tells us she spent $100k on a kitchen remodel during marriage #1.  This appears to be what she is spinning in the WSJ piece as “her generation” being so invested in their children that they spend more money “improving the nest”.  From her gravatar picture, she appears to have a newborn child as well as a classy tattoo.

This entry was posted in Choice Addiction, Feral Females, Kate Bolick, Lori Gottlieb, Motherhood, New York Times, Professional Divorcee, Sandra Tsing Loh, Satire. Bookmark the permalink.

114 Responses to Harming your kids for attention and profit.

  1. Wow, you’re on fire lately. The only way you could have improved on this piece would have been to fill the center of your Venn diagram with $$$$$$$.

  2. okrahead says:

    From the blog of Susan Gegory Thomas, middle-aged, upper income Caucasian female, writing on “25 Random Things About Me”:
    7. I cannot stand petty meanness, or any gesture at sexism or racism, and get my version of gangsta when I encounter it.
    8. But I totally get Eminem.
    So, this middle aged white chick hates racism, and if she encounters it she will “get…gangsta.” Call it solipsism or narcissism, just don’t call it crazy cat lady. She says she hates cats.

  3. sunshinemary says:

    I see these divorce confessional books and articles as a good thing in that there is no way these women can permanently turn the children against their fathers because someday those children will grow up and read what really went down. Someday they will know that Mommy’s “happiness” was more important than their well-being.

  4. okrahead says:

    What’s psychologically interesting (and deeply disturbing) is that Mizz Thomas refers to herself and her friends who were traumatized by their parents’ divorces as victims of Medea. Assuming Mizz Thomas is familiar with the reference she should be aware that Medea murdered her own children when her husband abandoned her for another woman.
    Has Mizz Thomas decided that if the woman is the one to abandon the marriage there will no longer be any damage? That would be solipsism indeed, for it would be to believe that only a man’s bad actions can cause harm, and that if a woman takes the exact same actions she is still harmless, and hence blameless.
    Conversely, if Mizz Thomas does not adopt such a rationalization, then she must accept that she has chosen to metaphorically murder her children, a metaphor which she herself chose. This would indicate an individual willing to destroy her own daughters for the sake of her imagined happiness, which has apparently eluded her in her new marriage as well (see her writing in the WSJ on income disparities between wives and husbands). Or, in other words, she was unhaaaaappy, chose a frivorce, did so knowing the trauma she would be inflicting upon her daughters, and did so anyway. One wonders whether there is a word for such behavior?

  5. ukfred says:

    I simply give thanks to God each time I read something like this for Rachel Clark who remarried her former husband. The story is on Psychology Today and starts with http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/marry-divorce-reconcile/201101/boomerang-the-short-story-divorce-reconciliation-and-remarriage

    IO am thankful that this woman was not too proud to say she got it wrong and her ex and future husband was not to proud to tell her to stuff it when she asked to reconcile.

  6. JG says:

    Could her writing be an attempt to ease her conscience away from the fact that she did to her children what was done to her as a young girl growing up in a divorced home? If so then what she has done to her own family is even more inexcusable because she did it with her eyes wide open.

  7. Zorro says:

    I used to wonder when I’d get married. Sometimes I wondered whom I would marry.
    Then I wondered why I wanted to get married.
    Then I wondered if I ever really wanted to get married.
    Then I wondered why I ever thought I wanted to get married.
    Then I stopped wondering about being married.
    Now I wonder why anyone would want to get married.
    Nobody puts more poison on the prospect of marriage than female writers. For the love of God, I can’t wait for the day it’s legal to pelt female writers with eggs.

  8. I’d guess writing about it allows her to step outside the situation, so it’s like she’s reporting on a drama being played out in front of her. It might sound like she’s taking responsibility or accusing herself, which would be contradictory, but that’s not it at all. These things just happened and she’s sharing them.

  9. ar10308 says:

    All the couples used in the “When the Wife Has a Fatter Paycheck” article come from within New York City, and I imagine this phenomena is mostly observed in these very Blue cities where the Beta guy married some former carousel rider.
    All the more reason to have nothing to do with those places.

  10. Elena says:

    Sandra Tsing Loh was married?! You learn something new everyday. I thought she was famous for writing about how much she hated her father.

  11. Bob Wallace says:

    My experience with people who are ambitious and lack talent is that they have no clue they lack talent. Usually they think they’re very talented but the rubes are too stupid to see just how talented they are. Then they get hostile.

  12. deti says:

    Here’s a divorce tale, but it isn’t one of rebirth. It’s one of death, destruction, secrets, and curses visited on the third and fourth generations. And you won’t read about it in any national publications, because it’s too gruesome to tell and the truth has only just recently all come to light in my dysfunctional mess of a family.

    I will submit what I’m about to tell you is the real story of divorce, and how they REALLY go down.

    My uncle, my mother’s brother, returned to college in 1967 after returning from the Vietnam war. He met a young woman from a neighboring town and married her the following year. They graduated college at the same time and took jobs in the outlying suburbs of a major city. After seven years and two kids, he returned to an empty house in the fall of 1975. Through a series of events I won’t bore you with, my uncle soon figured out his 28 year old wife had been cheating on him with her boss. He promptly divorced her. HIs children, ages 6 and 2, went with his wife, who also got the house. My uncle got his car, his clothes, a little furniture, and half the debt.

    His second marriage was to a raging prescription drug addicted, shopaholic, spendthrift, self-centered bitch. She aborted Uncle’s third child and then got a tubal ligation, both without telling him. He found out when the medical bills came in for payment. He divorced the bitch when he had finally had enough of her pill-addled antics after 17 years.

    What antics? Constant hospitalization and health problems from her pill addiction. Refusal to get help or rehab for her addictions. Spending Uncle damn near into bankruptcy several times. Insisting on the newest and best of everything. Acting like a complete bitch to my family, and Uncle’s family of origin. Gossiping to and about his family of origin, causing rifts and tension. Refusing to visit his family of origin. Refusing to even attempt to forge good relations with Uncle’s children (my cousins). Refusing to work to help with expenses despite the fact that they had no children and she didn’t need to be a housewife. Refusing to help Uncle when he had health problems.

    When he was 60 years old, about 7 years ago, he married for a third time, this time to a decent woman. She is herself divorced with four grown children. It seems Uncle finally has got it right this time — now that he is retired and has little to retire on, having spent it all on alimony and child support to his first wife, and medical bills on his second wife.

    For Uncle, it’s been a legacy of pain, deprivation, and poverty. He has spent literally hundreds of thousands of dollars on the divorce machine. What’s worse, he barely knows his children. He was able to visit them, but they didn’t want to see him much because they hated the shuttling between two homes and because they hated his second wife. Uncle finally has some peace now, but not very much money. I am convinced one of the reasons he married again was because his third wife’s pension will support both of them nicely when she retires from her lucrative municipal job in two or three years.

    Part II: Uncle’s first wife, and their children.

  13. deti says:

    I forgot to tell you about Uncle and child support. At one point he fell into arrears on child support, about $20,000 worth. He never paid it because he simply could not. Luckily he was never threatened with jail, and his first ex-wife never made much of an issue about it, mostly because she soon married her boss and didn’t need the money. But that child support arrears always appeared on his credit reports and it severely damaged his credit rating. Uncle had to pay higher interest rates on his mortgages and car payments. He couldn’t afford to buy a house for several years after his first divorce because he couldn’t save enough for a down payment and he couldn’t borrow at competitive rates.

  14. Podsnap says:

    She spends the rest of the piece explaining how her divorce (as she just told us about her marriage) will be different and won’t harm her kids.

    Not much of the article – just a couple of paras at the end. Basically this is a catharsis piece for her – with her own divorce as a piece of irony at the end. Hipsters love irony after all. “Divorce ruined my own life as a kid, and would you believe it – I got one too!”.

  15. Badger says:

    “Like millions of my sisters, this puts me smack in the middle of a distinctively modern dilemma: how to handle the tensions of a marriage between an alpha woman and a beta man.”

    I LOL at this kind of stuff. The chorus of whining from women who make more than their husbands and want their husbands to “man up” flies directly in the face of a generation of feminist bitching that men and women were equal, that men were the ones who were insecure when they didn’t make as much as their wives, etc etc.

    Essentially, the complaint is that they’ve made the feminist men they wanted, and now they are stuck with them. Cue Dalrock’s piece about feminist nostalgia for traditional gender roles. Waaaah!

    “My husband, an antiques restorer whose field has all but evaporated”

    Where’s Captain Capitalism to talk about stupid career choices? I’m sure all the noopsies of the neighborhood swooned when she said she was dating this artsy folksy hipster fantasy. You know if she was dating an accountant with steady work she’d be complaining he’s too boring.

    “someday those children will grow up and read what really went down.”

    There does seem to be a rising tide in society of not listening to women’s bullshit anymore, check out the raucous pro-male comments in the famously misandrist Atlantic and WSJ pieces. I’m guessing the male late Xers and Millenials may show a serious mother-rejection complex as a result of exposure to all this Boomer narcissism. I actually heard just last week about a young man who cut off contact with his mother after she divorced his father.

    One other thing…she subtly complains he’s not doing enough with the child care. Why should he? They’re not his kids, they are the spawn of another man she voluntarily removed from her children’s lives. Not his problem.

  16. Dalrock says:

    FYI, I just added an asterisk at the end of the post with some new information on Ms. Gregory Thomas.

  17. njartist49 says:

    As an artist, let me provide a Venn diagram for becoming a professional, female artist:
    Top circle: “Wants to become an artist”
    Left circle: “Little or no talent”
    Right circle: “Marry a dentist/psychologist/college professor/….(live off of his income)”
    Variation: “Marry an artist superior to oneself who teaches to support family; slowly kill off his humanity and creative spirit until he retires and all that remains is a dry husk; finally feed off of his pension do do your own half-ass work, in your private studio: he meekly trots out his past glory and “keeps his hand in” by attending a once a week drawing session at the local artists’ league.”

  18. Miserman says:

    The only compliment I can give Ms. Thomas is a quote from Duke Nukem: “Hell, I’d hit it.”

  19. Dalrock says:


    One other thing…she subtly complains he’s not doing enough with the child care. Why should he? They’re not his kids, they are the spawn of another man she voluntarily removed from her children’s lives. Not his problem.

    From the gravatar pic of her blog it appears she has a new child with husband #2. See the note (asterisk) I added at the bottom of the OP.

  20. Anonymous age 70 says:

    BAG says it is unforgivable that anyone could not believe in Global Warning, because, Omigosh, they had a hurricane! You can’t make up stuff like this. What a moron!

  21. deti says:

    Part II: Uncle’s first wife and his children.

    Uncle’s first wife (let’s call her Auntie) was divorced in early 1976. She got the house in the divorce. After about a year, she married her boss, Joe, at the local water company where she worked. Because she didn’t need her house anymore, Auntie sold it and pocketed the profit, blowing most of it on new cars and clothes.

    Joe was a high flyer at the water company. He bought Auntie a new house in a nice subdivision. Things went great with them for several years. But Joe wasn’t real good with kids. Uncle’s daughter was going into puberty and had a bit of a weight problem. Joe constantly teased her about her weight, calling her “Miss Piggy” and “tubby”. Joe mostly ignored Uncle’s son (fortunately). Daughter tried living with Uncle but wouldn’t follow his rules and couldn’t get along with the Bitch, so she was soon sent back to live with Auntie and Joe. Son also tried living with Uncle but pushed back hard against his rules too. So back to Auntie and Joe he went.

    Auntie didn’t know Joe was living beyond their means — WAY beyond their means, in fact. One day after work, Joe went to a local state park and blew his brains out. Auntie soon discovered why he committed suicide. Joe had been embezzling money from the water company for years — even before his marriage to Auntie — and his bosses were about to find out. At first he’d used the money for living expenses, new house, cars, clothes, dinners out. Then later, as he spiraled downward, Joe was blowing the money on booze, cocaine, hookers and strippers. He ended it all when the bosses and the cops were closing in. Auntie had no idea about any of it.

    Auntie lost the house. She sold it to settle claims against Joe’s estate. The money went to reimburse the water company for what Joe had stolen. She had to continue working at her job to take care of Daughter and Son. A few years later, she married Bill, a hopeless, hapless beta who had his own business reupholstering old furniture. He was a nice no drama guy. She corraled him into marriage. Meanwhile, Daughter and Son grew up and moved out. Their stories below.

    Auntie’s elderly mother needed help so she henpecked Bill into selling his business. Auntie and Bill moved to the small town where Auntie grew up, into her mom’s home. Auntie’s mom means well, but is domineering and demanding, always getting her own way. Even Bill couldn’t take it. Auntie told him to deal with it or leave. Bill left. He still lives in the small town, having nothing to return to in the suburb he left. Auntie started dating her boss, a married man who refuses to leave his wife.

    And that’s where Auntie is today.

    Her legacy is one of destruction of her life and that of her children, as you’ll soon see. Auntie couldn’t control her hypergamous instincts. She never was able to choose a good man who was compatible with her. She chose poorly in Uncle (whom she never really loved), Joe (a badboy of poor character); and Bill (a hopeless beta representing security and safety, and not love or attraction or mutual interests). She wasn’t very astute about herself or the men she chose. She couldn’t or wouldn’t see the highflying lifestyle as evidence of Joe’s crimes, and either glossed over or could not see Bill’s betatude. And she ruined her children’s lives.

  22. Thomas says:

    And to top it all off, her writing is some of the most pretentious drivel I have ever read, e.g. “She’d always had an entrenched sense of justice, but when she perceived that a classmate had deeply violated her code, the propulsion of her hate-mongering was breathtaking.” Really? Third graders have developed an “inviolate code” against which they they judge the world? Sheesh…this broad is a first-rate drama queen….

  23. Badger says:

    I find contempt and mockery to be effective when dealing with these kinds of people, or more importantly, when discussing these kinds of people with other people. When I hear a woman my age bring up EPL or something like this, I laugh in her face and dismiss it, and/or draw attention to its damage (“oh, the chick who ditched her husband and ruined her children’s lives in the process?”)

    To argue against it, beyond a certain point, dignifies it more than it deserves.

  24. deti says:

    Part III: Uncle’s children.

    Daughter was an average student. She hates her mother but has tried to have a decent relationship with her dad. At least she and Uncle are on speaking terms. After suffering through Joe’s humiliation and Auntie’s neglect, she determined she would never be called fat again. She swore she would never, ever get pregnant because she didn’t want the weight gain and didn’t want to screw up any more lives. She developed anorexia and then went through subsequent rehab at age 17. As far as we know she no longer binges and purges, but she sure never had a weight problem after that.

    She took a few classes at the local community college after graduation but decided school wasn’t for her. Being an attractive young woman, around a 6 or 7, she found the alpha carousel more to her liking — and easier than pursuing a degree. She worked her job during the day as a personnel manager; then worked the bars at night with her BFFs. She had it all: bleach blond hair, 4 inch stilettos, tight jeans, boob job, and a never ending string of BFs to service her sexual needs and beta orbiters to service all her other needs.

    Daughter married her first husband Tim when he wheedled her into it. Tim’s mother was dying of cancer and she wanted to see her baby boy Timmy married off. The wedding was nice; the marriage a farce. He decided after the fact he wanted kids (which was a bit unfair to her since she made clear she never wanted to be a mother). She would hear absolutely nothing of it. Tim wanted a wife; she wanted a good time buddy and permanent beta orbiter. He wanted her at home; she wanted her own money, her own time, her own job, her own life. Marriage was cramping her style; she wasn’t fitting into his idea of what a marriage should be. They realized within a couple of years they had both made a colossal mistake in marrying each other, so they parted ways more or less amicably. In the meantime, at age 25, she had tired of being on hormonal birth control for the better part of a decade, and had an elective tubal ligation.

    Daughter’s second husband was a rugged outdoorsy type who our family thought wasn’t a good match. We were right. Bob was an independent alpha type who married because he wanted a more or less permanent sex partner. Bob didn’t much care what she did, where, or when, or who she did it with. Within a couple of years their marriage drifted into an open relationship with the two of them both more or less openly cheating on each other. A knockdown dragout fight (not literally) finally ended Daughter’s second marriage after five years.

    At age 35, Daughter had been divorced twice. She’s 42 now and has resolved never to marry again. She instead has boyfriends and FWBs in and out of her life. Most of her BFFs have also married and divorced. A couple are married with teenage kids; Daughter doesn’t see them much. She still has her job as the personnel manager but has moved a couple of times, making essentially lateral career moves into comparable positions. She’ll have to work for the rest of her life to support her fabulous party/fun/booze it up lifestyle. She’s now carving out a social life as a local cougar.

    Son, her brother, hasn’t fared much better. He loves his mom but has a strained relationship with his dad, whom he hates. He doesn’t trust men in general, preferring the company of women. Son graduated high school and then became an auto mechanic. He’s had steady work but never made much money. He just wanted to get married and be a dad. At 25, after an extended period in which he couldn’t get a date to save his life, Son married his first wife. She was an entitled princess landwhale, but he loved her. The marriage lasted three years and ended when she joined a crazy pseudo-Christian cult. When he wouldn’t go with her, she left him. She now lives in another state. Thankfully, they never had children.

    Son’s second wife wasn’t much better. She was another entitled princess landwhale. They had their one and only child, a daughter, two years later. They had constant money problems despite their both working decent jobs. She insisted they buy a house they could not afford. The money problems and constant fighting took their toll and she asked him for a divorce. They tried separating but neither could afford to live apart. Son moved back into the house which she had been trying to sell, but in the housing market crash they couldn’t sell it. Moreover they could not afford to sell it for what they could get for it because they were so upside down on their mortgage. Son and second wife had to live in the house for another two years, separately but together. He had to watch as she brought her new men to the house, where his wife would have sex with her paramours in his old bedroom (Son had moved to the basement and occasionally did the same thing with his girlfriends).

    After two years of this, they were finally able to sell the house, and they split up for good in 2010 when he was 37. She of course got their daughter. Both of them are completely broke. After paying child support and his own living expenses, he has no savings at all. She has moved back in with her parents because she can’t afford her own place. She hates hates hates living with her parents because it means she has to do her hookups at their places. Son is an incel now. He has no money to take a woman out. His betatude makes him unattractive and invisible to most women.

    This is the real story of divorce and what it does to families. Look at the dysfunction and the wreckage in its wake: Marital infidelity. Dishonesty. Going into marriage with unrealistic expectations. Viewing marriage as just another relationship which can be discarded when it gets difficult or rough or does not always serve one’s own interests. Self-centeredness. Eating disorders. Drug addiction. Carousel riding. Failure to teach and train a boy up into a man. Neglect. Criminal behavior. Disillusionment and cynicism. Reckless spending and consumerism. The sins of the fathers and mothers visited tenfold on their children, who carry the curse their parents put on them.

    Stories like this are never told. I’d like to see Susan Gregory Thomas or Sandra Tsing Loh write about this.

  25. alcestiseshtemoa says:

    This is something that both ambitious professional UMC/UC modern men/women will never get. The whole modern feminist definition of power, autonomy and equality is what is destroying these type of “unequal relationships” (aren’t most relationships not utterly 50/50 but some form of a division of labour and alternation? Like 60/40 or 70/30 or whatever? How can men and women be the same come on?). For a more extreme example of sexual inequality think of rape. And the feminist hysteria about rape. Yet who has the most rigid definition of rape? Liberals. Who thinks rape is about power? Liberals. The whole idea of a man who has complete power over women and vice-versa is a feminist interpretation of such incidents. That is how liberals think of the evil boogeyman Patriarchy TM. Seriously. If most men in the past thought of their wives like Sandrah Tsing Loh did their relationships and families would have not survived. Feminism has created the biggest egalitarian caste system in history. Equality uber alles. These women seem to hate their “inferiors” (inferior men? inferior women?). Sadly this has spread towards higher status men too and has turned them into white knights. Think men like Barack Obama or Bill Clinton. Of course that’s explainable, because it makes sense that high-status men are protective of high-status women. It’s just irritating because it extends towards defending abominations such as feminism and liberalism. These things seem like an epidemic in Anglo countries (Puritanism?). Of course Mediterraneans and Eastern Europeans have their own versions of feminism. Would be interesting to see what forms of liberalism they have to deal with.

  26. AnonWriter says:

    Thanks for the story, deti.

    ” Viewing marriage as just another relationship which can be discarded when it gets difficult or rough…”

    I think that’s the crux of it all. This is modern marriage – basically, the same as a relationship without marriage, but with penalties to the man when it ends. Unfortunately, society doesn’t want to support and enforce marriage these days.

    On top of that, Feminism generally shames men for marriages ending, when women are almost always the initiators. Blaming men for marriages failing is just another way to keep men under the heel of feminism. Someday I hope marriage will be back. I have 2 daughters, and I worry.

  27. Farm Boy says:

    My experience with people who are ambitious and lack talent is that they have no clue they lack talent

    There is a name for that,


  28. deti says:


    Thanks. I changed names and a few details and dates; but the major points are all true. it’s a true story.

  29. farm boy says:


    Thanks for the story. May all read it and learn.

  30. ybm says:

    “wants to be a writer”

    Oh man you have no idea how true this is.

    100% of the sluts and assorted lowlife women I know went to university to study “journalism” or “English” etc.

    they all wanted to be writers.

  31. okrahead says:

    Well, Deti, as long as we’re telling true stories….
    My female cousin (C) married a hard-working, prosperous, respected, etc. Beta (E). They had two sons. As the two boys grew older and went to school, C decided to get a job. She didn’t really need the $, as E was an excellent provider, but she wanted more $ for “extras.”
    C eventually decided she was “in love” with her boss, who was himself married. C and the boss began an affair. C divorced E, and, surprisingly, the boss divorced his wife as well. C married the boss and took the boys, separating them from their father.
    Now, as my extended family members are all members of the same conservative church, C was publicly “read out” of the church. On Sunday morning. As nothing more than a common whore.
    Now, you think, this sounds pretty painful, but how does this affect poor Okrahead? Well, this is how. C has been read out of the church. She is a adulteress, admits it, makes no bones about it, and is completely unrepentant. She has destroyed two families. So Mr. and Mrs. Okrahead, along with little Okrahead Jr., have decided we will not attend any social functions where C is included as a welcome guest. After all, Paul tells us, “With such a one know not to eat.” Seems fairly straightforward, doesn’t it?
    Well, guess who is now excluded from family functions? Okay, surely you can guess, right? C is welcome and present, and brings along her new f-buddy (I refuse to call him a husband, he is nothing of the sort regardless of what piece of paper the state may issue). This exclusion extends even to my own parents, who feel the Okraheads are “too judgmental”. So they choose their adulterous niece and her f-buddy over their own grandson.
    This incident was one of three which began my own “red pill” journey, so I suppose it was good for something. Still, I suppose it goes to show just how deep the rot goes in our society, in our families, and in our churches.

  32. Farm Boy says:

    Don’t these women ever take a step back and look at themselves? Isn’t that what everybody is supposed to do every now and then?

  33. Farm Boy says:


    Doing right is not always easy. You are an exemplary role model.

  34. Farm Boy says:

    wants to be a writer

    Why do women always aspire to useless vocations? Why not aspire to useful and fulfilling things, like being a mother?

  35. @Farm Boy

    the whole feminist/slut outlook relies on seamless lying to themselves. They will do ANYTHING to avoid any moments of clarity. Witness all the distractions they flood their life with. When they look too close in the mirror, they back away quickly, repeating the mantras of lies they corporately maintain, and find the slightest elements to reinforce the lies, or fabricate them completely, added with things like “everyone is doing it”, “its no big deal”, and “no one can tell me what’s right for me” and the good old “I have to be true to myself”- which, of course, is a statement of no substance at all, but sounds very appealing and rejects and even mocks anyone who would tell her she is doing something wrong.

    around here, this phenomonon is known as the rationalization hamster.

    Simply lying to onesself and bending any truth to fit what she wants reality to be (subject to change at any time/whim) without any reason or accountability. If that hamster is fit enough, it will even be able to convince others of these untruths.

  36. oh, and being a writer isn’t always useless, sir.

    In the case of many of these women, it IS useless because they either say nothing meaningful at all, or because all their writing is infected with the lies they believe. Any garbage they write will be recycled tripe that serves only to feed the madness of the hamsters, who are always ravenous for a new mantra or two

  37. Farm Boy says:

    @Samuel Solomon

    No offense intended. Agreed, if one has nothing to say, then don’t write. Almost
    all women have nothing to say ( with exceptions like song, SSM or CL)

  38. koevoet says:

    Okrahead, E should have married boss’s wife. Ha!

    But as Farm Boy said, good of you and your wife to be decent folk. There aren’t enough of them.

  39. Lovekraft says:

    Corporate life is also awash with pushy empowered ‘self-aware; women who have abandoned their true beauty in favour of a masculine crudeness. The art of dialogue with meaning has been lost after political correctness, environmentalism and other ‘isms’ imposed their standards on oall.

    Wouldn’t we all rather have independence with scarcity, rather then numbed minds surrounded by trinkets?

  40. Anonymous Reader says:

    Farm Boy
    Don’t these women ever take a step back and look at themselves?

    Not an honest look, no.

    Isn’t that what everybody is supposed to do every now and then?

    “Supposed to” is not the same thing as “actually doing”. Just as “should be” and “are” ain’t the same thing, either.

    I realize that it’s probably crimethink on some blogs to mention female solipsism, but what else should we call the totally self-absorbed mindset that regards other human beings as mere objects to be manipulated, or less than even that? What should we call women who basically act as though no one else has any real existence, if not solipsists?

    Finally, some of these women do take a look at their life, after too many years. And they they start hitting the booze…

  41. Ed says:

    Good choice with Ms. Loh. I followed your link and here’s her latest article.

    “How the new gender economics has more and more professional-class women looking at their mates and thinking: How long until I vote you off the island?”

    A real prize, that one.

  42. Ed says:

    Also, your Venn diagram cracked me up. Based on the examples that I have, I’m thinking that an accurate depiction of the intersection set between “Wants to be an (artist)” and “Has no talent” would show it being a lot larger.

    My father is a talented artist, and earned a good living in the practical field of architecture. My sister and half-sister, however, both tried to be artists MORE THAN ONCE IN DIFFERENT AREAS and failed miserably due to the lack of talent part of the equation, building up debts that were later serviced by others along the way..

    I’m betting other readers can fill in the “Wants to be a _____” blank with a lot of different things and get the same result.

  43. sunshinemary says:

    The pumpkin pies are in the oven, so now is a good time for me to ask a question that has been bothering me, since the subject has sort of come up.

    Farm boy wrote:

    Don’t these women ever take a step back and look at themselves? Isn’t that what everybody is supposed to do every now and then?

    Not only that, but why can’t they see? When all this information was presented to me awhile back, lights popped on in my head like crazy (i.e. taking the red pill). I was like, “This all makes sense and totally ties together all these threads, all the problems that I’ve been noticing but couldn’t quite figure how they were connected.” Shedding the blinders/blue pill thinking was the most incredible relief. I just could not wait to share it with other women (“Look, this is why we are all screwing up our lives, and other people’s lives, so badly!”). Imagine my shock to find that they didn’t particular care to have it shared with them. I cannot, cannot, cannot understand it. It’s all right here in front of your face, women, why can you not see this? And Christian women have been the worst. They won’t even discuss it. It’s not just that they cannot see, it’s like they do not wish to see. Why is this?

  44. Mint says:


    Wow! Judgmental or not, I can’t believe your own family members prefer this woman to you.

  45. Anonymous Reader says:

    t’s all right here in front of your face, women, why can you not see this? And Christian women have been the worst. They won’t even discuss it. It’s not just that they cannot see, it’s like they do not wish to see. Why is this?

  46. zykos says:

    Deti, amazing story! You should write a book about it, seriously. It has all the characteristic elements of today’s social problems, and the unfortunate consequences of reckless behavior. If I had read it elsewhere, I would think it was crafted for that purpose. If it was made into a movie, it would be a blockbuster.

    Which made me think: maybe our problem as humans is that we revel in this sort of drama. We want to hear stories about relationships gone wrong and struggles, and hate successful stories of a married couple who stay married and successfully raise kids. We dismiss that as boring. Too bad for us I guess.

  47. 8oxer says:

    Dear Okrahead:

    Thanks to you and deti for sharing these stories. There are two situations in my extended family which are similar. In one, the divorced provider died of a brain aneurysm shortly after the split up which left his ex-wife and her new boyfriend the house, car and his income stream. The ex-wife took his ashes (along with her new f-buddy) on a bizarre vacation, before scattering them in some unknown locale. They have photographs of themselves at trashy casinos with his ashes on the slot machine, ashes on the seat at the movie theatre, and such. I wish I were making this up. It’s a freakishly bizarre story, but that’s North American womanhood for you.

    Like you, I’ve found that not associating with trashy people gives me an incredible peace. I’m happy to not participate in too many family functions with these people, and being rid of them (unless I absolutely must go see them and play nice, which only happens occasionally) is life’s greatest reward.

    Best, Boxer

  48. MackPUA says:

    lol im seriously trying to not to post here, but dalrock’s posts & commentators suck me back in everytime …


    “women, why can you not see this? And Christian women have been the worst. They won’t even discuss it. It’s not just that they cannot see, it’s like they do not wish to see. Why is this?”

    Because there is no group consensus to see it …

    Women use social logic, men use logic directly …

    For example, women supported mens right movements ie suffragette opposition, in the 1950’s precisely because there was a strong patriarchial structure

    Women ONLY support strong groups of men

    Until the mens rights movements rebuild & rebuild the societal checks, through recreating men only movements, ie game, MRA

    Game & the MRA is essentially the start of a new masculine patriarchial based society, which will rebuild the societal checks & rebuild the traditional family

    If we continue to reinforce & disseminate the societal checks in place, needed to recreate the family

    Since women are so group consensus, its a matter of advertising & disseminating the societal checks required to bring back a strong patriarchial society

    Its important to remember women ONLY support strong groups of men

    Which is WHY they supported the mens movements & the anti-suffragette movements in the 1950’s

    Laura Grace Robbins documents this quite effectively on her site …

    Mainly because women are highly dysfunctional & unstable without strong males to ground them in reality, ie highly solipistic, delusional women like Alte, walsh etc … carousel riders are the worst, next to unwed women with children out of wedlock …

    The more women sleep around, the more asshole game they need to keep stable & balanced

    The effects of women sleeping around are deep & psychological & highly damaging for women

    Women dont have the emotional psychology or biology to sleep around like men …

    Women are essentially hormonally challenged when it comes to sex, ie they dont have enough to bond

    Again no group consensus, women will deny the problems exist everytime

    As Women use social logic, men use logic directly …

    We HAVE TO REBUILD THE GROUP CONSENSUS as masculine & patriarchially as possible

    To get women to confront theyre solipism & delusional grandeurs of entitlement, we have to spread a masculine patriarchial group consensus …

    Its the only thing women respect or understand … group consensus, or herd mentality

  49. an observer says:


    The members of Team woman prefer to lie to themselves. They recycle the pilates ancient question, what is truth?

    The answer is whatever makes suits at the time. Whatever makes them look correct. Whatever confirms their deepest, heartfelt desires.

    I wonder whether it is worth dialoguing with women at all. Rationality is wasted as pearls before swine.

    “The patriarchy you have dialled is not connected.”

    It may need reestablishment by force. Rationality probably won’t work. But society may have to go into a deep pit beforehand.

  50. IrishFarmer says:

    What she’s doing is called “crowdsourcing the superego”. She no longer has a conscience, so she puts her misdeeds out to the world so that others can be her conscience for her. Others mock and ridicule what she does, and in a twisted way this revalidates her as a “good” person. Women like her are sick. Men would do well to learn how to avoid her type.

  51. greyghost says:

    We use different words but think alike. Women are big time herd creatures. right now the social meme is how great divorce is. The woman in the article divorced and wrecked her children. The herd pays her and admires her for her courage and sees her as a victim.
    Right now I’m past the analysis stage (after the awareness stage) and to the point of determining action to change the course of the herd. For only a fool tries to change a woman into something of virtue. (me in the early days My body shook and went limp when at about 1 to 2 am one night a couple years ago I realized and posted that women do not have the capacity to love. I knew it was the truth and I’m married with 3 kids) redirecting the herd to where women will behave with virtue out of wicked selfishness. I’ll take it is the best any one can ask for.
    Dalrock as I see him is a cultural leader post collapse. He is showing the way for the herd. I see myself as a soldier,(currently a guerilla) whos role is making the collapse happen. I’m getting off track for Dalrocks blog now but all should know the MRM has many types of men and roles that need to be played to put an end to the normalcy of these divorce stories.

  52. Uncle Elmer says:

    12-14 hour days my ass.

  53. thank god I am 32 no wife, no kids….

  54. David J. says:

    I noticed decades ago that the majority of women seemed to think that having an abortion was ok as long as they felt bad about it in some way. It seems a similar dynamic applies to frivorce.

  55. krakonos says:

    Let’s take your story and re-tell it (in a very different perspective):
    Woman marries a decent man (divorces when bored, takes house, kids, alimony).
    A bitch with addictions marries a decent man.
    Woman with kids marries an Alpha.
    Woman with kids and finantial problems marries a finantially secured beta.
    An old woman with grown up kids marries a decent man.
    Carousel rider marries a beta.
    The former carousel rider marries an Alpha.
    The rider returns as cougar.
    Landwhale nr.1 marries a beta [but not omega].
    Landwhale nr.2 marries a beta.
    [The beta has no more prospects.]

    Now let’s have a look at old-time version (50s and before):
    Woman marries a decent man (and has to stay with him even when she can score an Alpha).
    Slutty woman marries a beta (and has to stay with him, even when…).
    Landwhale marries a beta (and has to stay with him, even when she wants more).

    As a hedonistic, solipsistic creature which universe would you choose? Would you want to return to the old universe?

  56. an observer says:

    “crowdsourcing the superego”

    Fascinating concept. Does this explain why women are so glued to their mobile affirmation devices?

  57. Farm Boy says:

    mobile affirmation devices


  58. Farm Boy says:

    Imagine my shock to find that they didn’t particular care to have it shared with them. I cannot, cannot, cannot understand it.

    For a woman that takes the red pill is no longer an empowered victim.

    World views matter

  59. WillieMaize24 says:

    “she appears to have a newborn child as well as a classy tattoo.”

    Well she might have a newborn child, but there’s no such thing as a “classy” tattoo, much less a classy tattoo on a woman. It’s a tramp stamp, and shows impulsiveness, false individuality, and lower class values.

  60. wfprice says:

    From the blog of Susan Gegory Thomas, middle-aged, upper income Caucasian female, writing on “25 Random Things About Me”:
    7. I cannot stand petty meanness, or any gesture at sexism or racism, and get my version of gangsta when I encounter it.
    8. But I totally get Eminem.
    So, this middle aged white chick hates racism, and if she encounters it she will “get…gangsta.” Call it solipsism or narcissism, just don’t call it crazy cat lady. She says she hates cats.


    These types surround me here in Seattle. Nobody is more self-righteous and intolerant than they are. I assiduously avoid them. As a native, I have more than enough local friends and family, so it isn’t a problem (most psychotic lefties are from out of town anyway, and the worst of all are usually transplants from red states — go figure).

    But really, something that too often goes unspoken is how white trash so many of these urban whites are. I mean, they are really, truly scummy, morally degenerate people. The tattoos don’t even do them justice. Their very souls are tagged with ugly ink. Lest I sound uncharitable, I suppose I hope they can salvage what remains of their humanity, but it isn’t my job. Frankly, I’m not up to it anyway; it would take a saint.

    Fortunately, most of them are childless, and will remain so. They have entered the great demographic toilet bowl that America’s cities have become.

  61. MackPUA says:

    @Dalrock & W.F Price

    Price brings up a CRUCIAL & serious part of the societal problem we face today … white trash, ie the white & black culture of undereducated women addicted to alcohol & drugs, fuelling decline …

    Heres my solution to white trash & the trashy women we face today … if we disseminate this, as well as shaming women, we can make a dent in white trash culture & save hundreds of men & women from a life of trailers & poverty & alchohol

    Seriously White trash women are a HUGE problem … instead of going to out to dignified ballrooms & going to theatres & plays to cultivate their culture, as white people have done for centuries …

    They goto clubs, instead of culture & refinement they get ONS & alcohol & drugs & as many bad boy alphas they can handle …

    Maybe we should start disseminating what women SHOULD be doing instead of clubbing like sluts?

    If we want to make a dent in white trash culture, we should tell women what to do instead of clubbing & slutting & whoring at weekends ?

    Most women arent even aware of the alternatives to clubbing & weekends … ie goto theatres & plays & engage in white cultural traditions, such as ballroom dancing, salsa etc.

    If we want to bring back a culture of refined, cultured women, we also have to shame women for clubbing & getting drunk over the weekends

    Remember its the gangs & corrupt government who run these white trash cultural destroyers

    We need to shame women Clubbing & addicted to getting drunk & drugs as pass times

    Popularise culture & refinement ie theatres, plays & salsa, ballroom dancing etc., & young ppl will not only adopt them, but adapt them for their generation

    Its a matter of disseminating & popularising & countering the mass media which deliberately pushes men & women into white trash clubs & poverty through the brain damage caused by drinking alcohol

  62. MackPUA says:

    So how about it guys. how about a campaign of presenting alternatives for clubbing & weekenders … the number one cause of white trash women …

  63. Podsnap says:

    Adding to what wf Price said –

    from Thomas’ blog –

    I’m goddamned broke and grouchy. I live in the middle of the damned ghetto and raise chickens for eggs; grow all my own vegetables and fruit; bake the bread and make the cleaning products. Why? Because I fucking have to, that’s why! That’s what you do when you’re fucking poor! You have to make the shit yourself, dumb-ass!

    Maybe when you have a trust fund, you can make “choices” or have a “lifestyle” or “decide” how to “spend” your “money.” Excuse me, but Mama is just trying to feed her kids over here, you little shits. And stop spraying your art-school graffiti on the fence of the vacant lot across the street from my house. I know who you are, and I’m telling my friend Keith (who lives in the projects) that it was you who painted that cartoon of the African mask.

    So if you screw with her she is going to tell her friend ‘Keith’ who is black (tho’ of course she doesn’t say that, she says – “who lives in the projects”) that you disrespected his culture.

    This silly little girl is playing a lot of roles and personas here. I wonder how she keeps it all straight in her head.

  64. Cultural_Expat says:

    Well, at least she didn’t plug him in his sleep and get off with no jail time as this Maine wife did The story claims she was in an “emotional prison.” Our sons so need to know that women today are just dangerous, like children playing with matches, they will always get the govts get out of jail free card.


  65. MackPUA says:

    An example of what white trash culture does to women …

    These two are 17 & 18 year olds … they look like 40 yr olds ….

  66. CL says:

    These two are 17 & 18 year olds … they look like 40 yr olds ….

    40 year-olds who let themselves go – no real reason that 40 should look that bad. But you see the Jabba the Hut mom backstage and it’s not hard to see why they are like that.

  67. Anonymous Reader says:

    Cultural_Expat, that link points to quite a circus. From the mangina judge who turns her loose with a slap on the hand, while saying “This is not a get out of jail free card!” (Duh, she’s getting out of jail free, no?) to the First Baptist Church pastor giving a big churchian, unconditional-love, “judge not” hug outside the courthouse, it’s very instructive in how the modern pussy pass works. Note that the poor, li’l woman shot her husband while he slept two times in the head. I guess the gun “just went off” …. twice. Yeah.

    How many years of therapy will be enough for the daughter to get over the damage, especially since Murder Mom retains custody of her? “Be good, or you’ll get what Daddy got!”, maybe?

    Too bad Escoffier / GKChesterton not around to explain it all for us, how women aren’t really capable of doing bad things, it must be some man’s fault one way or another. Twice…in the head…while asleep. Attention? Check. Profit? The made-for-TV-movie coming out any time soon, in the fine tradition of Farrah Fawcett in “The Burning Bed”?

  68. Cultural_Expat says:

    I agree anon, but as that story defames a dead mans character with innuendo that he cannot defend; and the prosecutor apparently didn’t, one only need go back and read some of the earlier stories to understand. The writer of this story excluded a fact that was reported on earlier in this, another Maine feminist justice abortion….the husband brought into themarriage a 10 million dollar income producing trust. I don’t think the pussy power was enough here…probably some money funneled to Maines finest of the fine, declaring from the bench “misunderstood facts.” Maine is a shithole for men.

  69. Greyghost wrote:

    “My body shook and went limp when at about 1 to 2 am one night a couple years ago I realized and posted that women do not have the capacity to love. I knew it was the truth and I’m married with 3 kids)”

    It’s curious to watch other men ask similar questions and reach similar conclusions. I love women and can’t get enough of them, as you know. But, apart from a few rare examples, I consider them little more than beautiful creatures, or ‘warm little beasts’, as I like to call them.

    The real question we must start to ask ourselves is this:

    Are women fully human?

    Reading the Manosphere (MOS) I am often reminded of something the late Southern Catholic writer Walker Percy once wrote (‘Love in the Ruins’):

    “Why did God make women so beautiful and man with such a loving heart?”

  70. greyghost says:

    Why did God make women so beautiful and man with such a loving heart

    So as to make it near impossible to invent an artificial womb and have men just use the attractive women as bootie calls. Look at the stories of these women and divorce. Don’t try and tell me a man flying to india to have a surrogate child can top these bitches in destruction.

  71. CL says:

    @Laguna Beach Fogey

    Reading the Manosphere (MOS) I am often reminded of something the late Southern Catholic writer Walker Percy once wrote (‘Love in the Ruins’):

    “Why did God make women so beautiful and man with such a loving heart?”

    Wow, that is a striking question. This goes back going on a year now when 7man wondered aloud to me if women have empathy, and the unfortunate conclusion we drew after letting the idea percolate for a while was that they generally don’t.

    What appears to be empathy is possibly explained by ‘mirror neurons’, the purpose of which is to build social networks and such and also to respond to babies in a nurturing manner. I suppose that sounds rather cynical, but I think it is possible (probability is another matter at this stage in the degeneration of western civilisation) to build upon this and learn empathy, or learn to compensate for its lack, but it has to be somewhat telling that women complain of men’s lack of empathy. It seems like it’s just another mass projection on the part of women.

    It seems to me that a man’s loving heart in leadership of a woman could teach her something, but this culture just won’t have it at this point. Women have been brainwashed into not trusting men, and men can’t act as leaders without being persecuted (and prosecuted). A gigantic shame on us and we’ll get what’s coming to us for being so obstinate.

  72. Foreigner says:

    …..”Which made me think: maybe our problem as humans is that we revel in this sort of drama. We want to hear stories about relationships gone wrong and struggles, and hate successful stories of a married couple who stay married and successfully raise kids. We dismiss that as boring. Too bad for us I guess”

    I read once (not sure where) that happy, successful people are all happy and successful in the same (boring) way while unhappy failures are all unhappy and unsuccesful in their own unique special way. This would account for why unhappy stories make such interesting reading or gossip fodder and can never get old or boring.

  73. Chris says:

    OK… since I have teenage boys and a daughter who lives on a milbase so is quite exposed to trash culture.

    Apart from clubbing…
    1. Games. Yes. I. am. serious. The boys learn most of their history not at school — and these are straight A students at an elite boys high — but from Civilization and Assasin’s Creed.
    2. Gym., which leads to sports. And yes, I mean girls as well: from maritial arts to athletics to netball or handball (yes, those are different games).
    3. The Arts. Paint. or take photos. Play a musical instrument. Cooking can be an art, as can sewing, quilts.
    4. Organized dancing. Square cances. Cadleigh. Country balls.
    5. Fix something up. Consider that old move Assassion (La Femme Nikita would be better if you have French).. Trash chick is trained to be refined and take pleasure in domestic beauty… and finally.
    6…Train your children to do likewise. Teach them to have a spine, be interesting, and not trash.

  74. 22to28 says:


    That video you posted may have been the most painful thing I’ve seen my entire life. I don’t know if I’m going to be able to look at women the same ever again.

  75. Tam the Bam says:

    TFH: ” .. makes me glad that the UK also has Sharia courts”
    Only for those that want them, no more legal status than the local dogging circle’s code of conduct. Pretend courts for pretend laws, they can do whatever they like, nobody gives a toss. Like kids in a big old cardboard box. Have fun and keep the noise down, will yer?
    And they’ll never, never take away our beer (wine/scrumpy/gin/whisky/voddy/rum ooh ta large one and put a pastis and a tequila and a cognac in it too, in case it stops raining, it’ll be just like being on holiday).

    Here’s a real Brit star and she’s genuinely a sweet-natured and modest Christian woman, with a very good voice. I got her 1st CD when it came out.
    Now do you understand why we’re about the most drink-sodden people on the face of the planet? The Islands would be completely uninhabited by now, if it wasn’t for Dr Booze.

  76. greyghost says:

    The women that do get over here are already knocked up and ready to collect benefits. One thing about this election is no more lies about how hard working the immigrants are. BTW those girls in that video were off the chart terrible. Based on physycal appearance and character they should be the last limbs of that part of the family tree. They need to put some of the counter terrorist facial recognition software on the doors of fertility clinics to keep shit like out of there.
    “Hey ,the door won’t open’
    “look into the camera love”
    ” I am looking at the bleedin thing”

  77. Looking Glass says:

    Mao Zedong offered the US 10 million Chinese women during the Nixon administration opening talks. Not a joke. Mao had women to spare. (Now, however, they really don’t. Which is going to make their society burn)

  78. dumasworld says:

    thankfully here in London we have a lot of foreign women, the local english women are dogs.

  79. Hf says:

    And on top of all that, how much do you wanna bet that she also suffers from a battered sluice box…

  80. pb says:

    “The sins of the fathers and mothers visited tenfold on their children, who carry the curse their parents put on them.”

    I was just thinking about this text from sacred scripture today, though in connection with anti-tradition ideologues raising their children.

  81. Mint says:


    “I read once (not sure where) that happy, successful people are all happy and successful in the same (boring) way while unhappy failures are all unhappy and unsuccesful in their own unique special way. This would account for why unhappy stories make such interesting reading or gossip fodder and can never get old or boring.”

    You must have gotten that from Lev Tolstoy, because that’s how he begins one of his novels (Anna Karenina, I believe?) Unfortunately, he’s right.

  82. Tam the Bam says:

    Ol’ beardy Tolstoy way off the mark there with that incipit “Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”.
    He was lucky never to have lived to contemplate the die-stamped griping, whining, sharp-elbowed grasping clones and drones making up the Professional Welfare Mums’ Army.
    Although to be fair to the old boy, he would not for one second have considered a lifelong spinster with a shower of mystery brats as a “family”.
    Even arch-pacifist and general all-round wet lettuce Tolstoy might have ended up chucking her under the train, if she demanded angrily and constantly that he be taxed throughout his life, higher and higher, possibly foregoing parenthood due to poor prospects on his shrinking income, never able to retire, all to keep a vast and growing herd of indigent, indolent, incompetent strangers in the style to which they have become accustomed.
    ” Robbers”, he (Tolstoy) says, “are far less dangerous than a well-organized government.” (Kropotkin)

  83. Bee says:


    Thanks for taking the time to write up that history. It shows how the social bombs of the 1960’s have maimed people for decades.

    It also shows how divorce leads to undisciplined children. Uncle’s kids sought out the lenient spouse and avoided the firm hand. Instead of discipline being a team approach it becomes one sided.

  84. The Real Peterman says:

    “So, this middle aged white chick hates racism, and if she encounters it she will “get…gangsta.””

    And she hates sexism but loves the records of one of the most sexist singers out there.

  85. thebassist says:

    Checked out her blog. One of the first things I read is ‘Broke-Ass has always loved Blanche DuBois: her tender, aging, ravaged beauty; her insistence that flattering shades be applied to overhead lightbulbs; her pathetic march on, in spite of everything’

    Makes so much sense. She also forgets to mention that this ‘aging, ravaged beauty’ was kicked out of her previous home for slutting it up with all the men in town. Another perfect grrl power heroine!

  86. PGC says:

    Greyghost wrote:

    “My body shook and went limp when at about 1 to 2 am one night a couple years ago I realized and posted that women do not have the capacity to love. I knew it was the truth and I’m married with 3 kids)”

    I’ve been blessed to know several decent, loving women in my time. All of them were older women (born late 1900’s to 1920’s). All were in happy, stable marriages that started when they were young girls of 16-23 and lasted until they or their husbands passed on. All of these women are long gone now, but I feel lucky to have known them because they set an example of what women could be (Titus 2:4–“That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children”, comes to mind). Most people in the younger generations probably never met women like this.

    Anyway, I used to think that they had good marriages because they were basically good women. These days I suspect that’s putting the cart before the horse.

    Having taken the red pill, now I’m convinced that these women were good because they’d been under the leadership of good men all their lives. Basically, they went straight from their father’s house to their husband’s house. No career or clubbing or false independence, just straight from father to husband (and she had to get her father’s approval before a man could even court her, much less marry her).

    Anyway, focus on teaching men. Some women these days can handle the red pill, but my experience is that most just cough it up as it involves facing unpleasant truths about their nature. What’s discouraging is that even the Christian women I know don’t want to hear it. It’s like they think only men are humans in need God’s grace, while women are born sinless angels. I used to wonder how they reconciled this with the story of Adam and Eve, now I know they don’t even try to they just ignore the contradiction, if they even notice it.

  87. farm boy says:


    About old-time women being great; you are absolutely correct. They rarely make them like that any more. So sad for humanity.

  88. Miserman says:

    That gravitar picture makes me wonder. Why do women present themselves used up and broken down and then think that somehow a newborn makes everything beautiful? One woman who is not exactly top of the pops wanted to show me these pictures of her with her bare back to the camera while she was hold her naked newborn. I did not see those pictures as beautiful and felt very uncomfortable with it.

  89. greyghost says:

    Old time women were no different than todays women. Old time women behaved the way they did because it was in their best interest in the society they lived in. What the red pill does is allow you to see that. Many of the red pill writings on the nature of women today mirror those written hundreds of years ago. When red pill women are the highest status women all women will be redpill and the next day these same women will carry on as if femminism never happened or they were always fighting for qual rights and fairness. That is just how women are. Reward her for behavior not who she is. (no rings for sluts, do not pedistalize, If she is well behaved because she doesn’t have options take a look at waht she has and if it is what you want take it, looking for a woman with virtue is like looking for a unicorn.)

  90. Farm Boy says:

    Old time women were no different than todays women

    Genetically yes, otherwise, no.

  91. greyghost says:

    Their behavior was much better due to the environment they where in. example old time women never went to church to hear a preacher call them heroic for having bastards and never heard a preacher yelling at the men to marry sluts. They were the same childlike POS we have today but were virtuous because that was the herd way and women of high social status behaved with virtue. Given the choices women have today with the same social standards for women they would be POS. (pieces of shit)

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  93. Farm Boy says:


    Yes, they were much more vituous back then. People thought it was natural. Now we know better, to our chagrin.

    Thank goodness my mother grew up during that era. I really feel sorry for the guys brought up by modern women.

  94. PGC says:

    @ GreyGhost
    @ Farm Boy

    I don’t know your religious backgrounds, but since becoming a Christian, I accept that no one is born virtuous.

    This makes it all the more important to *teach* virtue when and where you can. Spread the light. This is why so many men are manginas or thugs these days. No one’s guiding them to anything better. You have to reach out.

  95. infowarrior1 says:

    If women continue to behave like this as a herd this may be whats next:

    Men Have Bred Dogs And Cattle
    Why Not Women Too?


  96. infowarrior1 says:


    Scripture IS tradition.

  97. Rock Throwing Peasant says:

    Do they ever reflect honestly? Mine doubled-down this weekend.
    My oldest is a month or so from age 12. He has some issues, which he inherited from mom and has received treatment for. On top of that, he has a serious obedience problem because she refused to support discipline.
    She called Weds to say he is out of control. He’s hitting her, hitting his younger brother, bot listening, etc. she wanted me to come over to help.
    I showed up and he was still in one of his moods. She recounts the details. I look at her and said, “When I was here, this behavior was blamed on me. Now, you are dealing with it by yourself and found you can’t.”
    She replied, “No, what I didn’t like was how you dealt with it. Like when you choked him.”
    I was floored. In no court doc, in no testimony, nowhere did she or my son or anyone allege I had choked my son. This is now part of her reality and recollection.
    The B/S PFA is set to expire in a few days and I have had no word that it would be extended. Her lawyer, paid for by tax dollars, for that didn’t want to go forward with it, so I think she may have tried to get it extended, was turned down, and mentally decided to “up the ante” by stating that I had choked him.
    THAT is how women engaged in frivorce reflect on events in the past. They double-down on victim status.

  98. David J. says:

    @Rock Throwing Peasant:

    Similar experience here. Though she’s never accused me of physical abuse, all of our disagreements subsequently morphed into “emotional abuse.” My words are frequently twisted in her re-telling (and apparently in her memory); hers are twisted in the opposite direction; and some words are forgotten (or at least claimed to have been), including our Christian marriage counselor’s flat-out statement that she did not have grounds for divorce but that I did. The one good thing about her recent rush into an ill-advised remarriage is that the older kids are beginning (I think) to see that she was the crazy one all along.

  99. Drew says:

    Another good post by Dalrock. And thanks to Deti for the bonus material. The data and logic by Dalrock, and the persuasive example by Deti is a powerful 1-2 punch, powerfully persuasive.

    What I have noticed with clarity recently is how the male children of these divorced mothers overwhelming side with the feminist perspective. I notice they become even more submissive to women than the parent.
    Even when the son goes through the same divorce meat grinder as thier estranged fathers, they still can’t connect with the father. They still can’t empathize and reassess, all the while being in the exact same situation. It is not a self correcting generational pattern.

    I wonder what census or survey data could be used to confirm or deny this trend I have noted.

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  111. Cloudbuster says:

    I’m not sure why it’s supposed to be impressive that she makes her own cheese. That’s not something you do out of abject poverty. Since she certainly doesn’t own a cow or goat in the “ghetto,” she would have to buy a whole lot of whole milk to make the cheese, and then there’s a lot of whey she’s probably just pouring down the drain. Without your own livestock, you can’t get cheese cheaper by making it from milk than you can from the store.

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