Vox weighs in.

Vox Day has shared his own thoughts on Christians and game on his blog Alpha Game:  Game and the Decline of the Church

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102 Responses to Vox weighs in.

  1. John says:

    I’m curious if you know anyone in the Christian community that agree with this who are leaders. I’ve been seeking a Christian leader who promotes more “masculine” Christianity, but have yet to find one. They all tend to promote the BETA lifestyle – men submitting to women.

  2. @John: i find myself in the same boat. I am actually thinking about leaving my current church. The churchianity is is just become too much. My pastor gave a sermon on 1 Peter and in the most sheepish, apologetic, backpedaling, cowardly way possible touched on the passage about wives submitting to their husbands. I was disgusted to say the least.

  3. Kyle says:

    Indeed John, many Churchianity pastors like Driscoll pretend to be pro-Man but they’re really just advancing the feminist agenda through endlessly bashing men, which is arguably worse than the ones who just admit they’re feminist weenies.

  4. Tarl says:

    Kind of a chicken and egg problem — Church leaders see that their audience is mainly women, so they preach beta submission to women, which naturally drives away all men from the audience who are not beta submissives.

  5. The Stranger says:

    Closest I’ve come is John Eldredge, whose Wild At Heart series points out a masculine need for masculinity, but manages to perpetuate a lesser variant of pedastalizing women (despite saying that a man needs to pursue some purpose outside of and beyond a woman, in his book for women, Captivating, he claims that the fact Eve was created last means that she is the pinnacle of creation. Even if it were true that all Hebrew poetic devices placed the emphasis at the end, and it’s *not*, the creation account ends with the creation of ‘man’ who is ‘male and female’. The creation of Eve is a new story that re-covers some of the same ground, and ends not with her creation, but her marriage to Adam).

    As far as I’m concerned, the relationship of Game and the Christianity is thus:

    The Bible says women are human and humans are fallen.
    Game says women are human and humans are fallen.
    Churchianity says that women are divine, the image of God, and their faults are the fault of outside influences.

    The Bible says women are designed to be submissive and men are designed to lead.
    Game says women are naturally submissive and men thrive when striving for dominance.
    Churchianity says men are designed to be ‘servant leaders’, which is interpreted as meaning they should really do more of the chores around the house.

    Game, run by Christians or not, is (1) understanding human nature, both the good and especially the bad, and (2) exploiting human nature, whether for good ends or for not. Think of the classic story illustrating the wisdom of Solomon: two mothers are arguing over who owns a living baby after the other’s has died. Solomon tells them to cut the baby in half, and they can each keep a half. One of the women says “Okay,” the other says “Let her keep the baby, just don’t cut it in half!” Solomon rightly decides the second is the true mother and gives the baby to her. The people marvel because Solomon’s wisdom is inhuman.

    Solomon understood both the lengths a woman will go to to protect her child, and the depths of depravity a woman was capable of in spite, and he played them. Game, employed in the service of God.

    Game is simply understanding elements of human nature that society is trying desperately to ignore, and then using that understanding. Understanding is part of wisdom. Game is part of wisdom. Q.E.D. And I’m rambling.

  6. yaboy says:

    Anglo Protestantism is by nature femo-supremacist as the separate spheres doctrine embraced by Calvin, and later the Puritans and Methodists is inseparable from the belief systems.

  7. E.R. Bourne says:

    Dalrock,

    I am writing to let you know that I found this site several months ago and have been reading it with great interest since then. I have even convinced several friends of mine to read your writings as well. Unsurprisingly, they are now as intensely interested as I am. I suppose this is the “Red Pill” phenomenon that so many young men have experienced; having someone so lucidly and cogently articulate the crisis of male/female relations in post-Christian America has had quite and impact on my thinking. This is not to say that I did not have a broad understanding of feminism and its detrimental effects on human social life, but it is to say that your arguments, method, and style amount to what I consider to be one of the most devastating series of critiques against feminism specifically and modernity generally within Christianity today. The American Catholic Church, of which I am a faithful member, has not been immune from this disease, but it does appear to be immune from courageous men who are willing to analyze modern sexual relationships and accurately diagnosis their deviancy and deviation from human nature, history, and tradition. It is a rare Christian today who is willing to take his arguments beyond mere anti-abortion platitudes and strike at the heart of the beast itself. For this, Dalrock, I commend you.

    Proverbs 31:30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.

    E.R. Bourne

    [D: Thank you, and welcome to the blog.]

  8. Somebody mentioned Traditional Mass Catholic priests. I attend both English and Latin masses at times, and the former are not bad on wifely submission (the texts get read out at the appropriate time of the year, which is just after Xmas amusingly enough, at a time when people here in Australia are hot and grumpy and feeling crapulous after the seasonal excesses); but the latter are the only ones I have heard any kind of sermon on the subject of the marital hierarchy. I have even heard women’s specific weaknesses (verbal stimulation) touched on. Obviously the Trad priests get a more honest formation and probably read old ethical manuals that are honest about men, women and their respective weaknesses.

  9. okrahead says:

    Maybe more manosphere bloggers should look into becoming preachers. Seriously. If you feel the calling, start studying your Bible until you know it inside out, get the training you need (many churches provide training programs for men who want to do this, so you don’t necessarily have to go to a seminary) and do the work. In the book of Ephesians Paul tells us that all Christians are called to some type of work, including evangelists and pastors. Maybe the desire to write here is a calling to take up the sword yourself. Just remember, “study to show yourself a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth” and “the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine”. Study, pray, study, pray then fight. And keep praying while you’re fighting. Forget about what is popular. Be prepared to support yourself with a secular job while preaching for a small church if that’s the opportunity you have. Save as many as you can. Besides himself, Noah only saved seven other people… was he a failure? Forget the “mega-church” mentality…. Walk humbly, serve a small group who “worship Him in spirit and in truth” and don’t worry about a giant auditorium and multi-million dollar “family life centers”. It seems that many of these feminized preachers we talk about are making a business of the giant “mega-churches”. That’s there game, let them have it. They desire the praise of womyn, and they have their reward. Save just one family, your own, and then find another to help.

  10. Steve Canyon says:

    Most of those Churchianity leaders aren’t fools. They know women control the spending in the family and the only way to get the money for their megachurches is to pander to them. Then there’s the whole idea behind “ladies night” at the bar. What better way to attract a bunch of beta-tools than to tempt them with the thought that they might pick up a chick someplace. Get women in the door, men will follow. (Alphas get women anywhere, they don’t need “ladies night”) The same reason a department store has 80% of its stock aimed at the female population is the same reason why these churches do just about anything to get them in the door.

  11. BlackCat says:

    Follow the money.

    Churches may aim to be religious in spirit, or at least appearance, but unless the pastors/priests/leaders are literally willing to suffer wearing sackcloth and ashes and starvation in the wilderness, they are ultimately subject to the same worldly needs as anyone else.

    Church leaders see that their audience is mainly women, so they preach beta submission to women, which naturally drives away all men from the audience who are not beta submissives.

    And as long as ‘progressive’ church leaders can keep getting enough money to support themselves while acting in this manner, they will continue to do so. The only way to deal with these heretics in Christian trappings is to starve them by cutting off all financial and other support.

    Look at what is happening to the denominations that have accepted female/gay pastors and gay marriage. Their membership rolls -and income- are dropping precipitously, and in some cases disastrously. Whether one agrees or not does not matter – this is the marketplace sending a clear message, and even if these churches somehow manage to survive in full denial, you can bet that at least some others are watching and learning.

    In the end, it all comes down to money.

  12. numnut says:

    We old bastards recall what was once
    normal:That each man was the King of his castle and alpha in his domain.
    It was his job to correct the beta to be Kind is his domain.Strong men were to been seen often,it was the weak that stood out.
    Now the script is flipped,the “alpha” is an outlier,outside of the new normal frame.Hence he’s lost the frame of society at large.
    No amount of individual effort can reclaim the foundation of society.
    The well has been poisoned,throwing new water down an old well is much like putting new wine in fresh leather.(explosive)
    Time to backfill the old well and begin to dig another,free of poison and with a proper foundation.

  13. numnut says:

    Matthew 9:15
    (red letter)
    And Jesus said unto them,Can the children of the bridechamber mourn,as long as the bridegroom is with them?but the days will come,when the bridegroom shall be taken from them,and then shall they fast.
    No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment,for that which is put in to it to fill it up taketh from the garment,and the rent is made worse.
    Neither do men put new wine into old bottles:else the bottles break,and the old wine runneth out,and the bottles perish:but they put new wine into new bottles,and both are preserved.

  14. Rock Throwing Peasant says:

    Voddie Baucham

    I bought a couple of his ebooks a few days ago (“Family Shepherds” and “What He Must Be”). So, far, very impressed. There is a “Man up” message (though I wouldn’t say, “Man up and marry those tarts”), but it is most certainly not, “Man up and start following your wife.”

  15. greyghost says:

    As far as I’m concerned, the relationship of Game and the Christianity is thus:

    The Bible says women are human and humans are fallen.
    Game says women are human and humans are fallen.
    Churchianity says that women are divine, the image of God, and their faults are the fault of outside influences.

    The Bible says women are designed to be submissive and men are designed to lead.
    Game says women are naturally submissive and men thrive when striving for dominance.
    Churchianity says men are designed to be ‘servant leaders’, which is interpreted as meaning they should really do more of the chores around the house.

    Game, run by Christians or not, is (1) understanding human nature, both the good and especially the bad, and (2) exploiting human nature, whether for good ends or for not. Think of the classic story illustrating the wisdom of Solomon: two mothers are arguing over who owns a living baby after the other’s has died. Solomon tells them to cut the baby in half, and they can each keep a half. One of the women says “Okay,” the other says “Let her keep the baby, just don’t cut it in half!” Solomon rightly decides the second is the true mother and gives the baby to her. The people marvel because Solomon’s wisdom is inhuman.

    Solomon understood both the lengths a woman will go to to protect her child, and the depths of depravity a woman was capable of in spite, and he played them. Game, employed in the service of God.
    Dalrock
    This comment from the stranger is very good and shows you have discovered and shared something that is on track. It also explains why game is so effective to the put of near predictable out come. It is biblical in it’s basis Adams sin was disobeying god by listening to his wife and not the word of god. The courage of faith in god is maybe the confidence women see in alphas that is so gina tingling. Nothing is more submissive and actually pleasant than a woman in full gina tingle even a total nasty bitch otherwise.
    I maybe grasping at straws but an Alpha type and a thug just plain don’t give a damn and woman seem to seem to respond sexually to that what on the surface looks look the strength of the protecter provider type woman naturally seek out as discussed in the manospere. But the thing is those guys do not do that and never have.
    Dalrock you will be remembered historically and the commenters you have on your blog are awesome. You are doing the lords work

  16. CL says:

    @ The Stranger

    “Captivating” was written by Stasi Eldridge, John’s wife. I liked “Wild At Heart” but found “Captivating” too meandering and lacking much off a point. I was disappointed. The best bits of that were already in “Wild At Heart” anyway.

  17. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    Vox Writes,

    ” Being truth, Game is a subset of Christianity that happens to relate to an area of particular importance and interest to men.”

    Heartsiste must be very flattered as Heartiste’s teachings are now a subset of Christ’ teachings as Witnessed Firtshand by Dalrock and Vox, during Christ’ other Sermonon the Mount which was a Seromon on Mounting Poon lzozozzoz! I did not catch this in Matthew, Mark, Luke, nor John, but I imagine Deacon Dalrock is adding a new book–the book of Dalrock, in which the sermon on the mount and all that crap about the meek is replaced with Vox’s idea of “Christianity as Game” lzozlzozooz which is all about pursuing and dominating poon and learning how to make a owman’s gina and butt tingelzzozlozoz:

    http://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/ (note that heartiste signs this as Your Lord and King, as Heartiste, acting through Christ as Dalrock & Vox insist, is their true Lord and King! lzozozozoz) :

    Matthew,Mark, Luke, and John all had the day off, but Dalrock and Vox got up early to see Jesus preaching Game on the mount (the sermon on the mount was actually a sermon on how to mount poon! lzozozozlzlzoz)

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:

    The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon (the sermon on the mount–on how to mount poon)
    (As originally taught by Jesus Christ as Witnessed by Dalrock and Vox)

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:
    I. Never say ‘I Love You’ first

    Women want to feel like they have to overcome obstacles to win a man’s heart. They crave the challenge of capturing the interest of a man who has other women competing for his attention, and eventually prevailing over his grudging reluctance to award his committed exclusivity. The man who gives his emotional world away too easily robs women of the satisfaction of earning his love. Though you may be in love with her, don’t say it before she has said it. Show compassionate restraint for her need to struggle toward yin fulfillment. Inspire her to take the leap for you, and she’ll return the favor a thousandfold.

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:
    II. Make her jealous

    Flirt with other women in front of her. Do not dissuade other women from flirting with you. Women will never admit this but jealousy excites them. The thought of you turning on another woman will arouse her sexually. No girl wants a man that no other woman wants. The partner who harnesses the gale storm of jealousy controls the direction of the relationship.

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:
    III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority

    Forget all those romantic cliches of the leading man proclaiming his undying love for the woman who completes him. Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be “The One” or the center of a man’s existence. They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out. You must respect a woman’s integrity and not lie to her that she is “your everything”. She is not your everything, and if she is, she will soon not be anymore.

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:
    IV. Don’t play by her rules

    If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:
    V. Adhere to the golden ratio

    Give your woman 2/3 of everything she gives you. For every three calls or texts, give her two back. Three declarations of love earn two in return. Three gifts; two nights out. Give her two displays of affection and stop until she has answered with three more. When she speaks, you reply with fewer words. When she emotes, you emote less. The idea behind the golden ratio is twofold — it establishes your greater value by making her chase you, and it demonstrates that you have the self-restraint to avoid getting swept up in her personal dramas. Refraining from reciprocating everything she does for you in equal measure instills in her the proper attitude of belief in your higher status. In her deepest loins it is what she truly wants.

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:
    VI. Keep her guessing

    True to their inscrutable natures, women ask questions they don’t really want direct answers to. Woe be the man who plays it straight — his fate is the suffering of the beta. Evade, tease, obfuscate. She thrives when she has to imagine what you’re thinking about her, and withers when she knows exactly how you feel. A woman may want financial and family security, but she does not want passion security. In the same manner, when she has displeased you, punish swiftly, but when she has done you right, reward slowly. Reward her good behavior intermittently and unpredictably and she will never tire of working hard to please you.

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:
    VII. Always keep two in the kitty

    Never allow yourself to be a “kept man”. A man with options is a man without need. It builds confidence and encourages boldness with women if there is another woman, a safety net, to catch you in case you slip and risk a breakup, divorce, or a lost prospect, leading to loneliness and a grinding dry spell. A woman knows once she has slept with a man she has abdicated a measure of her power; when she has fallen in love with him she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave you. It is her final trump card. Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone. Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:
    VIII. Say you’re sorry only when absolutely necessary

    Do not say you’re sorry for every wrong thing you do. It is a posture of submission that no man should reflexively adopt, no matter how alpha he is. Apologizing increases the demand for more apologies. She will come to expect your contrition, like a cat expects its meal at a set time each day. And then your value will lower in her eyes. Instead, if you have done something wrong, you should acknowledge your guilt in a glancing way without resorting to the actual words “I’m sorry.” Pull the Bill Clinton maneuver and say “Mistakes were made” or tell her you “feel bad” about what you did. You are granted two freebie “I’m sorry”s for the life of your relationship; use them wisely.

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:
    IX. Connect with her emotions

    Set yourself apart from other men and connect with a woman’s emotional landscape. Her mind is an alien world that requires deft navigation to reach your rendevous. Frolic in the surf of emotions rather than the arid desert of logic. Be playful. Employ all your senses. Describe in lush detail scenarios to set her heart afire. Give your feelings freedom to roam. ROAM. Yes, that is a good word. You’re not on a linear path with her. You are ROAMING all over, taking her on an adventure. In this world, there is no need to finish thoughts or draw conclusions. There is only need to EXPERIENCE. You’re grabbing her hand and running with her down an infinite, labyrinthine alleyway with no end, laughing and letting your fingers glide on the cobblestone walls along the way.

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:
    X. Ignore her beauty

    The man who trains his mind to subdue the reward centers of his brain when reflecting upon a beautiful female face will magically transform his interactions with women. His apprehension and self-consciousness will melt away, paving the path for more honest and self-possessed interactions with the objects of his desire. This is one reason why the greatest lotharios drown in more love than they can handle — through positive experiences with so many beautiful women they lose their awe of beauty and, in turn, their powerlessness under its spell. It will help you acquire the right frame of mind to stop using the words hot, cute, gorgeous, or beautiful to describe girls who turn you on. Instead, say to yourself “she’s interesting” or “she might be worth getting to know”. Never compliment a girl on her looks, especially not a girl you aren’t fucking. Turn off that part of your brain that wants to put them on pedestals. Further advanced training to reach this state of unawed Zen transcendence is to sleep with many MANY attractive women (try to avoid sleeping with a lot of ugly women if you don’t want to regress). Soon, a Jedi lover you will be.

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:
    XI. Be irrationally self-confident

    No matter what your station in life, stride through the world without apology or excuse. It does not matter if objectively you are not the best man a woman can get; what matters is that you think and act like you are. Women have a dog’s instinct for uncovering weakness in men; don’t make it easy for them. Self-confidence, warranted or not, triggers submissive emotional responses in women. Irrational self-confidence will get you more pussy than rational defeatism.

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:
    XII. Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses

    In the betterment of ourselves as men we attract women into our orbit. To accomplish this gravitational pull as painlessly and efficiently as possible, you must identify your natural talents and shortcomings and parcel your efforts accordingly. If you are a gifted jokester, don’t waste time and energy trying to raise your status in philosophical debate. If you write well but dance poorly, don’t kill yourself trying to expand your manly influence on the dancefloor. Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. Except World of Warcraft.

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:
    XIII. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little

    Touching a woman inappropriately on the first date will get you further with her than not touching her at all. Don’t let a woman’s faux indignation at your boldness sway you; they secretly love it when a man aggressively pursues what he wants and makes his sexual intentions known. You don’t have to be an asshole, but if you have no choice, being an inconsiderate asshole beats being a polite beta, every time.

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:
    XIV. Fuck her good

    Fuck her like it’s your last fuck. And hers. Fuck her so good, so hard, so wantonly, so profligately that she is left a quivering, sparking mass of shaking flesh and sex fluids. Drain her of everything, then drain her some more. Kiss her all over, make love to her all night, and hold her close in the morning. Own her body, own her gratitude, own her love. If you don’t know how, learn to give her squirting orgasms.

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:
    XV. Maintain your state control

    You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, shit tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.

    Dalrock and Vox both Testify that they Witnessed Jesus Preaching:
    XVI. Never be afraid to lose her

    You must not fear. Fear is the love-killer. Fear is the ego-triumph that brings abject loneliness. You will face your fear. You will permit it to pass over and through you. And when your ego-fear is gone you will turn and face your lover, and only your heart will remain. You will walk away from her when she has violated your integrity, and you will let her walk when her heart is closed to you. She who can destroy you, controls you. Don’t give her that power over yourself. Love yourself before you love her.

    ***

    The closer you follow the letter of these commandments, the easier you will find and keep real, true unconditional love and happiness in your life.

    Best,

    Your Lord and King
    http://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/

    lzozozlozolzlzoz

    If you want to see more of what Dalrock and Vox Witnessed Jesus teaching, watch the videos of Roosh & Mystery! lzozlzozoozzlo

  18. ukfred says:

    I think that many of us commenting here are in danger of sometimes throwing the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to discussing some church leaders. While I agree that Mark Driscoll is way too hard on men and way too soft on women, he does have some things to say that are worth listening to. for example, he is on record as saying that the way to expand a church, long term, is to make what you do attractive to young adult males, so that they will get out of bed on a Sunday morning and come to church. He explains this with some comments about boys wanting to be like dads and, if dad stops at home and only mom goes to church, then when son gets his sexual identity as a male, son will want to stay home with dad and not go to church with mom. I think that this is perfectly right and true. The other side of the coin is that he needs to be honest with his male congregation and tell them the Christian truth, not “man up and marry those sluts” without telling the women to be submissive to their husbands as we should all be to Jesus.

    I also wonder whether we have misunderstood the concept of servant leadership. My favourite management textbook is “Up The Organisation” by Robert Townsend, who was CEO of Avis Car Hire in the 1960’s when they had the “We Try Harder” advertising campaign. Townsend explains it thus. “The manager’s job is to remove the obstacles from the path of his people so that they have no excuses for not doing a good job, and to hold them accountable for the performance they turn in.” Servant leadership does not mean peel the potatoes before you go off to work and wash the floors when you come home so she has more time to read 50 Shades of Grey. In domestic terms, it is to help keep the house in good repair so that the wife does not have any excuses for not having done her job when the husband comes home from work, so earn enough to pay for the electricity or the gas bill, and clear the drain outside when it threatens to overflow and flood the house with foul water.

  19. @okrahead – Preach it brother.
    This is spot-on. Pray, read, and take the discipleship walk seriously.
    This is the way to manhood ( Women are more trouble than what they are worth unless they are seriously committed to Jesus).
    Jesus was one tough guy that didn’t back down to anyone.
    Any woman who doesn’t obey Jesus and the writings of the Apostles is not a Christian.

  20. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    The decline of the Church
    has nothing to do with
    Dalrock & Vox never speaking out in church
    Dalrock & Vox never manning up in church
    Dalrock & Vox never preaching the teachings of Genesis in church
    The decline of the Church
    has nothing to do with
    Dalrock & Vox never chastising their preachers for failing to teach Genesis
    Dalrock & Vox never criticizing their preachers for failing to teach Christ

    But accroding to Dalrock & Vox
    The decline of the Church
    has everything to do with
    not enough men using Game–“A subset of Christ’s teachings, according to Dalrock & Vox”–
    to make women’z butts and ginas tinglez
    so that men can mount poon
    and ejacualte in it and on it

    Such is the “sermon on the mount,” which, according to
    Dalrock and Vox
    who witnessed Jesus Christ’s teachings firsthand
    was really
    “The Semen on the Mount”
    but was misunderststood ans somonebdoy missppeled lit lzozlzozo
    lzozozozlolzlzlzlozolz

    All future versionsz of da Dalrock Vox Bible will be including a new chpater in da gospelz:
    “The Semen on the Mount”
    which, base dn da principles of Game,
    Which acording to Dalrock CHRIST PROFESED
    teahcines men how to be good CHRISTIANS
    by putting SEMEN on da owmenzdey MOUNTZ
    using GAMEZ zlozzozolozlzoz

  21. @Ukfred – I think you are missing the core of Jesus, John the baptist, and the Apostles preached. It was on repentance and the coming of the Kingdom of God.
    Christ spoke intentionally in parables and was a very stern preacher. Does this sound like a buyers market or a sellers ? “if anyone desires to be my disciple – they must deny themself, pick up their cross, and follow me” . LOL !!!
    Driscoll – Make it “easy” ??? GET REAL !!!!! It crocks like him that have DESTROYED Christianity and is anti-christ. Do you think anti-christ is going to be a horned and pitch fork devil ? Lol…. It is going to be a very deceptive, cunning, and twisting of the truth of the gospels. Jesus warned about this high level of deception.
    Do you have any idea why Jews and Muslims have such open contempt of Christians ? THEY ARE IMMORAL and dont take the teaching of Christ and the apostles seriously. Christian wonder why the pharisees didnt see Christ when He was right in front of them doing what He did.
    Christians are far worse in their belief and actions from unscriptural destructive doctrines of unconditional love, accepting Jesus in your heart, rapture, and easy grace which has DESTROYED the Christian witness despite a church on every corner.
    I’m done with my rant…
    Shalom,

    Mike

  22. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    Rock on Michael!

    When Christ taught, ““If anyone desires to be my disciple – they must deny themself, pick up their cross, and follow me,” Vox & Dalrock testify that they heard, “If anyone desires to be my disciple – they must follow their lotass cokas, pick up their anal lube, and serve their wive’s anuth tingelzozoozzl with GAME.”

    Such is the Christianity that Dalrock & Vox envision, as Vox states that GAME–how to make women’s butts and gina’s tingle so that one can mount them (Dalrock’s/Vox’s sermon on the mount is semen on the mount)–is a subset of Christ’s Teachings.

    Jesus help us lzozlzozlzo.

  23. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    Vox writes, “Being truth, Game is a subset of Christianity that happens to relate to an area of particular importance and interest to men.”

    By Vox’s/Dalrock’s logic, because it is true that acting like an asshole makes a woman’s butt tingle, acting like an asshole to make a woman’s butt tingle is Christlike and Christian.

    lzozozozlzol

    And people wonder why the West is in decline. With friends like Dalrock/Vox, what need has Christianity for enemies? lzozlzzlzo

  24. The Continental Op says:

    Dalrock, offtopic:

    While I find GB4M’s shtick amusing in small doses, he is getting too expansive and ruining it for me. Maybe it’s just me.

  25. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    By Vox’s/Dalrock’s logic, because it is True that Porn in of interest to men, and because Porn depicts True acts of sex, and because Porn Truly Excites Men, Porn, being Truth, “is a subset of Christianity that happens to relate to an area of particular importance and interest to men.”

    The Vox/Dalrock church will have live porn performances “of interest to men,” replacing the Sermon on the Mount with Semen on the Mount, depicting the Truth of physical acts between men and women, which are a) True, and b) of interest to men, and thus, according to Dalrock/Vox, are Christian and Christlike, as everything True is a subset of Christianty according to Dalrock/Vox.

    lzozoozlzlzo

  26. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    The Continental Op says:
    August 9, 2012 at 11:32 am
    Dalrock, offtopic:

    “While I find GB4M’s dick amusing in small doses,it’s i getting too expansive and ruining it for my buttholozizolzozzl. Maybe it’s just me.”

    Yeah–it’s just you dude. The People Loveth Me, because I teach of Goodness and Greatness, and not of the Porn and Game that Dalrock & Vox Preach, which you Lust After.

    Hey Dalrock/Pontiius Pilate,

    Note how the Continental Op is perfectly OK with porn and game replacing Christianity
    But when the GBFM stands up for Christ
    and Christ’s Teachings
    DA GBFM is persecuted by
    The Continental Op

    lozozozo

  27. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    In his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus stated, “Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”

    Because I stand up for the True, Exalted Teachings of Christ, instead of the Porn and Game that Dalrock/Vox promote in their “Semen on the Mount/Game/Pussy-Anal Tingling” corruption of Christianity, I am persecuted by The Continental Op, as they persecuted the prophets which were before me.

  28. Cane Caldo says:

    By Vox’s/Dalrock’s logic, because it is True that Porn in of interest to men, and because Porn depicts True acts of sex, and because Porn Truly Excites Men, Porn, being Truth, “is a subset of Christianity that happens to relate to an area of particular importance and interest to men.”

    The Vox/Dalrock church will have live porn performances “of interest to men,” replacing the Sermon on the Mount with Semen on the Mount, depicting the Truth of physical acts between men and women, which are a) True, and b) of interest to men, and thus, according to Dalrock/Vox, are Christian and Christlike, as everything True is a subset of Christianty according to Dalrock/Vox.

    Very good work, GBFM.

    I’ve been reading your comments for three years. Rather, I first read your comments three years ago, and then started skipping past them. However; never before were you so focused on Christ. You used to shout game from the blog-tops. What brought this happy change?

  29. Cross-posted here.

    Game and Christianity are held to be at odds for three reasons.

    1. Individual interpretation. While Christianity is a fairly straightforward set of “I believe” principles made explicit in the Nicene Creed, game is largely an empty vessel into which enlightened chumps pour their frustrations. So you get citations of Roissy’s Poon Commandments for lack of a formal dogma, and they are set against uneducated assertions of what constitutes proper Christianity (a confusion resident in that insipid neologism “Churchianity,” another all-things-to-all-people term).

    As a result, you will see monomaniacs like GBFM above preaching sophistry about how his understanding of game is irreconcilable with his understanding of the church.

    2. The proper use of power. Game narrowly understood as evolutionary psychology deployed for the purposes of promiscuity has the greatest currency on the internet. Of course it does; “game” (what used to be known as savoir-faire, aplomb, suavity, confidence, mastery, sangfroid) and the “alpha” attitude (what used to be known as manliness, leadership, and thumos) was first put into practice against modern feminism by pick-up artists, motivated by pussy. This is how revolutions in ideas proceed. They begin in dark corridors motivated by low passions, because it is the potential satiety of those passions which give them the courage to be transgressive against the prevailing regime. But eventually the ideas are refined when the initial courage reaches enough of critical mass for it to be expressed openly, more generally, and without fear of reprisal. For a while euphemism and “dark arts” and samizdat are essential.

    But, as in all matters, the Christian is suspicious of the use of power, though not allergic to it. Game is the first hint of a new, paradigm-shifting power, distinguished by its application to picking up drunk coeds. Since its modern rediscovery is rooted in the pussy pursuit, the cunt hunt is regarded as central to the creed. The Christian is enjoined not to sin, but he is not prohibited from wielding power. So the Christian will have disagreements about the ends to which game power should be applied, particularly since the undisciplined endless tail-chase of better orgasms is unworthy of an incipient power with the capacity to fell the cultural tyranny of our age, feminism.

    This Christian approach leads to disagreement and confusion about whether the power of game is at odds with Christianity itself. But there is no contradiction between Christians wielding game for righteous purposes any more than there is between Christians wielding firearms in a just cause. That said, ignoramuses on both sides will insist on an eternal incompatibility.

    3. The Christian roots of feminism. Without Christianity, women are chattel. Period. They were a man’s property everywhere before Christianity obtained, they are his property everywhere that Christianity has not yet obtained. Christianity is the revolution in theo-political thought that universally calls for (among a very many other things) the dignity of women.

    Of course, we have recently deracinated the faith from its divine soil and subtracted the Christ from Christianity. The result was the sprouting of secular substitutes which must end up, as Nietzsche taught, withering in the nihil: Marxism, feminism, environmentalism, pacifism. Absent the grace of a divine foundation, every -ism eventually devolves into a fight to the death for power.

    The first Mosaic commandment is, “I AM the LORD your God…” The first Christian commandment is, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind…” These precede more specific directives and thereby frame those ancillary applications, such as “Do not murder,” grounding them in the most essential thing. The secular substitutes such as feminism believe they can begin with the unaided assertion to “love your neighbor as yourself” independent of that grounding, or with the declaration that “all [wo]men are created equal” without referring first to “Nature and Nature’s God,” which dignifies it as something more than a fervent and impossible wish.

    Christianity therefore shares many of the ends of its secular substitutes. But absent the understanding of how Christianity diverges from feminism at their essences, most will see the shared goals and assume both creeds to be in alliance. This is certainly true with evo-psych atheist PUAs who have no mental acuity to distinguish among whom they regard as their allied enemies.

    It is a damnable weakness for MRAs and PUAs and MGTOWs and all them to contemplate the equal (infinite) dignity of women, simply because they are beleaguered by a feminism that has usurped the name of “dignity” as an instrument to reduce men. Can’t risk giving aid or comfort to the enemy! But in the last analysis, we are all made in the Imago Dei. Women have dignity qua women within their submissive role, just as men become “no longer servants but friends” of their Lord by submitting themselves with all their “heart, soul, strength, and mind” to Him. These subtleties confound the game evangelists who adopted their creeds through half-baked seminars and websites, creating binary categories and inflammable straw men. But within those subtleties are the elements of reconciliation.

    Matt

  30. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    Dear Cane Caldo,

    I have always been one with Christ,
    But because the Dalrock’s/Vox’s
    and all their followers
    have much evil in their hearts
    and lust to pervert Christ’s Teachings
    with their Gina-Tingling Game
    I speak in Parables
    lzozozlzolzollzzo
    Like Odysseus returning home to Ithaca
    I disguised myself in my own Home
    To assess who is yet Loyal
    And who has Betrayed and Corrupted
    the Teachings of Christ and Moses
    To assess how the Kingdom has been overthrown
    To assess how the King is not welcome
    Least of all in his Church
    Which teaches not of Christ
    But of Game/Gina tingles/Butt Tingles/Mammon/Feminist Wealth Transfer
    But I forgive them all
    For they know Not What They Do.
    lzozozozozolol

  31. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    King A writes, “Christianity is the revolution in theo-political thought that universally calls for (among a very many other things) the dignity of women,” showing that he never read nor understood the Iliad, nor the Odyssey, which exalt the dignity of women and female archetypes including Helen, Penelope, Athena, and Aphrodite.

    King A tips his hand–he’s never read the GReat Books 4 MENZ! lzozlzolzolzolz

  32. greyghost says:

    GBFM
    You are wrong on this one. The approch you are taking is not productive. Christian men need to learn game to understand the nature of women and why the rebellion. heartiste and roosh see game and its female pschology as a way to gina tingle in to some motivated to please pussy. Or as you say some asshole. The understanding of female nature that allows a preacher or any man trying to be a good christian is a must. Otherwise we get what we have today as the pussy worshipping churches of churchianity.

  33. Joshua says:

    Continental its not just you. GBFM is a blog comments section killer. hes made the comments practically unreadable. I skim now and on the off chance i hit something someone quoted i then have to go back up thread to catch the meaning. I know a few people like him Dalrock but he really does turn off a great majority of readers from the comments. Most comments now are from die hard readers and its really distorted the comment threads. If you could please take a look at the number of people commenting(individual people not total comments) before and after GBFM you may see a pattern where less people are partaking the discussion? As a person who has loved the comments here from the beginning Im very close to not reading them at all anymore, i cant be the only person who is doing this.

  34. I fully endorse Joshua’s statement.

  35. Rock Throwing Peasant says:

    Somewhere, in an office in central lzozozozozolol, GBFM drags his fingers through his hair, rubs the back of his neck and sighs mournfully, “I am become death, the destroyer of comments section.”

  36. Cane Caldo says:

    That answer was disappointing, GBFM. I wasn’t questioning whether you’d always been a Christian, but when scripture took its place of seeming authority in your comments. As I said, I’m long familiar with your work, and for a very long time, game was what you pointed to.

    You do have a tendency to overwhelm comments, though.

  37. ray says:

    Somewhere, in an office in central lzozozozozolol, GBFM drags his fingers through his hair, rubs the back of his neck and sighs mournfully, “I am become death, the destroyer of comments section.”

    christ returns to destroy all that is not of himself; his servants go before him, and follow in his train, as always

    and his enemies attempt to demean and deflect and withstand him, as always

  38. Rock Throwing Peasant says:

    Lighten up, ray. I tend to agree with GBFM on this point. I will have some fun with the Oppenheimer quote, given the earlier comment(s).

  39. hey all- today I saw a remark somewhere about a group of women passing around a brochure discussing the real reason women are unhappy, and a book related to the brochure. The women did not respond well to it.

    Now I can’t find the remark. Can someone direct me to it, if you know where it is?

    thank you =)

  40. ray says:

    Lighten up, ray.

    lol who do you think you are, chief? the planetary mammy?

    i will speak my mind and be as light or dark as i wish, whether or not that meets yr approval

    it’s v womanly and femfascistic to try to control the expression of others — do i tell you to stop throwing stones, peasant?

  41. Legion says:

    The Stranger says:
    August 8, 2012 at 9:58 pm

    Brilliant rambling Stranger. thank you.

  42. No, you don’t try to tell me to stop throwing rocks. You do resort to some name calling. It’s almost as if a change in demeanor would have suited you prior, so you don’t resort to childish comebacks.

  43. Legion says:

    Joshua says:
    August 9, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Sorry Joshua, I’ll say no to what you propose. I rarely read GBFM myself, yet rarely does he disrupt an entire thread.

    It’s to blow by inane or stupid commenters. I have quite a list of then here that I do this too.

  44. Legion says:

    “It’s easy…” Sorry.

  45. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    Why are so many of ye
    h8ing on da GBFM
    for agreeing with Jesus Christ
    on a “Christian” blog?

    Why do none of ye
    ever speak up at your churches
    and criticize the PArishioner
    for failing to teach of Jesus and Moses
    for failing to teach of Adamand Eve

    Why do none of you, like Willliam Bennet
    Ever crcitizinze the corproations that reward
    the buttocker tucker max rhymes iwth goldman sax
    for buttcocking your future wives and desouling them?

    Why dost none of ye ever stand up to da false preachers
    and evil womenz in your lives?
    Why does all of ye instead
    take you retrutbution out upon da GBFM?

    Why did you nail Jesus to the cross?
    Why did you vote to fre ethe mudrder murderer barabbus
    barbarus
    and vote to have jesus curcified?
    Why did you wash your hand of His blood?

    Why do Vox Day and Dalrock
    State dat Crhistians need Game
    instead of teaching as Christ did
    who told us to Rise Above Game
    to follow the higher ideals
    as opposed to da bottom line
    both da bottom ine mammom
    and da bottom line buttcrack zlozlzoo

    Why do you little lambs
    Try to reframe recrast Christianiity
    as dat which makes da gina and butt tingle
    As oppoed to its true hghr nature
    which is to exalt da soul?

    My poor lose lambs
    I forgive ye for your h8 4 me
    And your love of butt and gina tingelelzolzozlooolzo

    But Christ said called upn you to set down your worldly ambitions
    and take up the cross
    But ye refuse
    & dalrock & vox you choose
    becuase they teach of Game
    & tell ye “Game is the Lord’s Name!
    Forget your soul!
    Aim for her butthole!lzozlzzlz”

    zloollzozozozozozo

  46. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    Dear Greyghost,

    my poor little precious lost lamb

    you write, “greyghost says:
    August 9, 2012 at 12:34 pm
    GBFM
    You are wrong on this one. The approch you are taking is not productive. Christian men need to learn game to understand the nature of women and why the rebellion. heartiste and roosh see game and its female pschology as a way to gina tingle in to some motivated to please pussy. Or as you say some asshole. The understanding of female nature that allows a preacher or any man trying to be a good christian is a must. Otherwise we get what we have today as the pussy worshipping churches of churchianity.”

    heartiste and roosh teach you how to follow pussy
    to get pussy and stic your cockas in buttholozlzolzozlzozo
    christ teaches us to rise above lust
    and canral quests for gina and buttholiizozoo
    ’tis why ye hate christ
    and love it whene dalrock says dat chritisians need to learn how to score and bang more puusysyusussyyssu an dbttholiolozlozoz\

    you write, ” Otherwise we get what we have today as the pussy worshipping churches of churchianity.”

    ’tis exactly what game does–it worships pussy and makes its conquest the center and circumernce of all exieenattaznzce lzolzlzlzoz

    game and feminism are two sides of the same coin, which happens to be a fiat dollarzwhich butthexetstse the common man both financically and morally, teahcing him da Christ was all about game and scorcing puysysysys, as opposed to rising above da fleshzzz zlzozllxolzlzoz

  47. Gruesome says:

    Tests For A Beta Church (More Nays, More Beta)

    Is speaking at the pulpit reserved only for men?

    Is the sermon short and sweet?

    Is a strict liturgy observed?

    Are hymnals used during praise and worship?

    Is background music restricted?

    Do all the worshippers carry a physical Bible?
    Is the offertory collected by men?

    Is the offertory strictly audited?

    Do the ministries of the church serve the scum of the earth?

    Is there direct and inevitable admonishment for a sinful lifestyle?

  48. ray says:

    It’s almost as if a change in demeanor would have suited you prior, so you don’t resort to childish comebacks

    i will say whatever i wish — what part of that dont you get? and i’ll say it to you, or dalrock, or anybody else

    go tape your cat’s mouth shut, that should get you off

  49. Boxer says:

    Dalrock: I’ve passed both your URL and Vox’s on to a few married, Christian friends in the past (I am neither) and have been surprised at the results (ranging from “holy crap that’s cool” to “o man, my wife is giving up the p—y like never before”). Thanks would be forthcoming from these fellas in the first person, but they’re probably too tired out to type.

    It actually surprised me when I started tipping religious guys off to game. Often these brothers will seem far too spiritual to concern themselves with such stuff, and there’s a misconception among guys like me (single) that married fellas have their sexual needs met, and as such they have no use for material like this.

    In any event, it’s good to have different sources in the androsphere to toss around, based upon the intended recipient. Behind the personae, we are all men, and we all have the same basic wants and needs.

  50. Anonymous age 70 says:

    I simply ignore GB4M. It is easy to do, because his postings with his chosen format are essentially smart-alecky drivel. Yet, some men, at least a few, like them. So, the answer is scroll past as fast as you can and the few who like him can read him. You will not miss anything and those who like his stuff can enjoy them.

  51. Joe Commenter says:

    Love the GB4M. Ask him about tucker max, goldman sax and Ben Bernanke.

    Vote GB4M for President!

  52. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    zlzozlzozlzoz

  53. marlon says:

    Despite GB4M’s posting style, he does make me wonder this: With so many Christians on the blog who have discovered their manhood/alphaness/whatever through game, can the Christians look at some scripture and bring out proper man/woman relations from that?

  54. The Stranger says:

    @CL. Written by both. 🙂 And, yeah, Stasi rambles a bit more, perhaps, but that may simply be a case of effective communication with the intended audience.

    I like the Eldredges — their books were the first step, for me, towards anything resembling actual masculinity. A redder pill than what I had been taking (a purple pill? Prilosec?) Captivating is actually sitting just behind my monitor at the moment. That said, they are very, very sloppy with their Scriptural interpretation.

  55. ballista74 says:

    Kyle says:

    Indeed John, many Churchianity pastors like Driscoll pretend to be pro-Man but they’re really just advancing the feminist agenda through endlessly bashing men, which is arguably worse than the ones who just admit they’re feminist weenies.

    Doctrinally, their problem is removing any agency from the women. A great example of this Christo-feminism in short readable form is this page off of CARM, which I might address sometime (if I can figure out how to deal with their conditions to copy to reference the specific parts I’m addressing since I’d have to essentially copy 3/4 of their work). Note in reading it that the wife is absolved of all responsibility for her sins and the man is burdened with the sole obligation for fixing things, falsely teaching the section about Adam and Eve in order to justify it. Glenn Stanton would be pleased.

    The Stranger says:

    Closest I’ve come is John Eldredge, whose Wild At Heart series points out a masculine need for masculinity, but manages to perpetuate a lesser variant of pedastalizing women

    I found Wild At Heart pretty laughable. His stories were interesting, but I really didn’t find anything constructive in the book.

    okrahead says:

    Maybe more manosphere bloggers should look into becoming preachers.

    BlackCat says:

    Follow the money.

    Churches may aim to be religious in spirit, or at least appearance, but unless the pastors/priests/leaders are literally willing to suffer wearing sackcloth and ashes and starvation in the wilderness, they are ultimately subject to the same worldly needs as anyone else.

    Actually, BlackCat is pretty wise on the issue. As you might be able to tell from my blog, I very much consider it a preaching ministry, which I’ve done in various non-Churchian venues for quite a while now. The problem with becoming an actual factual preacher in these venues is that you serve at the pleasure of the people (be it the congregation, denominational authority, or otherwise). In short layman’s terms, you’re an employee. An employee with certain responsibilities, goals, and such to meet as any employee has to anywhere else in order to keep your job. In that way, it affords the people you act as preacher to a certain level of control over you and your message. If they don’t find the message pleasing (Isaiah 30:8-10; 2 Timothy 4:1-5), they’ll drop you and find someone that will, sending you away with bad references (insubordination) which will follow you elsewhere and really crimp your ability to preach anywhere else. These factors make it so you become a servant to men and not a servant to Christ (Galatians 1:10). The issue is in modern Churchianity that you almost have to be financially independent in order to not have that control over you (Matthew 6:24). And being able to have the basics of life is a powerful motivator and snare if one yokes themselves too tightly to it, as many who become full-time preachers do. And yes I’ve heard and read way too many stories to back this up.

    One thing I find a pleasure with the blog and most other things I’ve involved myself with is that I’ve been able to address what needs to be addressed and point out the failings of things. I think God has ordered my life in a way so I could take the Red Pill in that way, as well, and not beholden to upholding or ignoring the wicked things in the pulpit to preach down The Beaten Path of love and the Personal Jesus week after week.

    ukfred wrote:

    While I agree that Mark Driscoll is way too hard on men and way too soft on women, he does have some things to say that are worth listening to.

    The problem with Driscoll (at least relating to marriage preaching, since I tracked down the complete sermons and listened to them) is that the 80% or so of what he says that makes sense is plowed under by the 20% or so that’s complete garbage to the point that it’s hard for anyone who’s taken the Red Pill (manosphere meaning as well as seeing the true Biblical light) to take him seriously.

  56. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    Recently at a church picnic I overheard some women talking to the minister.

    “Yes, but the problem is our butts are sore,” stated one woman as another nodded.”
    “Yes, from all the premarital assockings from all those dang gamers.”
    “So we’re not attracted to our husbands as they won’t use the back door.”

    The minister frowned, said he would figure something out to save them, and went home and googled “buttcocking.” He found Dalrock.

    The next sermon the minister called the men aside after the service in the back room, and he taught them how to game and buttcock their wives, so as to save the children.

    For the solution to sore buttholez has ever been more buttcocking.

    zozozlzozlzozlzzlz

  57. CL says:

    @ GBFM August 10, 2012 at 9:48 am

    While that is clever in its own way, you are being wilfully obtuse. Of course, if you marry a ‘reformed slut’, you are likely to have problems and so no one here that I am aware of would recommend such a strategy. Nevertheless, women respond to dominant male behaviours.

    It doesn’t mean a man must be super-alpha or some kind of dark triad narcissist in order to keep a woman attracted to him, but that he is better off allowing his own natural masculinity to be seen rather than supplicating and pandering, which is what the last two generations of men have been brainwashed into believing will work.

    I understand that you will probably think I am wrong, so I see little point in saying much else in debate with you. Opinions are rarely affected that way.

  58. stillsvideo says:

    Dear CL,

    The simple message I am communicating is that
    The solution to the abundance of buttcocked, disrespectful women of our era
    Is not to serve their gina and butt tinglelzozzozl as Darlock suggests
    But to instead pick up the Cross
    Leave the butttinglzozlzzoz begind
    And Follow Christ
    And then
    and only then
    will tomorrow’s women follow

  59. Anonymous Reader says:

    GBFM / stillsvideo, have you ever been married? Yes? No?
    I’m not interested in your fetishes or keyboard diarrhea.
    Just answer the question.

    stillsvideo says:
    August 10, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Dear CL,

    The simple message I am communicating is that
    The solution to the abundance of buttcocked, disrespectful women of our era
    Is not to serve their gina and butt tinglelzozzozl as Darlock suggests
    But to instead pick up the Cross
    Leave the butttinglzozlzzoz begind
    And Follow Christ
    And then
    and only then
    will tomorrow’s women follow

  60. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    I don’t know about stillsvideo, but yes, I have been married.
    To our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

  61. sunshinemary says:

    It doesn’t mean a man must be super-alpha or some kind of dark triad narcissist in order to keep a woman attracted to him, but that he is better off allowing his own natural masculinity to be seen rather than supplicating and pandering, which is what the last two generations of men have been brainwashed into believing will work.

    I wonder if “gaming” could be seen as supplicating and pandering?

    I like the idea of men being masculine in whatever way seems right and natural to them, while concurrently women submit their rebelliousness to God and actively pursue submission. I don’t like to think that my husband has to do weird stuff (will someone please tell me what negs and push-pull are?) to keep me interested. Truthfully, I find choosing to be submissive to be as helpful as any display of dominance on my husband’s part.

    I’m beginning to wonder if ignoring the feminized church, all marriage counselors, my girlfriends, and the Gamers too is the best course of action and just concentrating on being respectful and submissive. What I’m beginning to suspect is that the men are not the problem here. It’s not they need to man up, it’s that we need to stop being so rebellious.

    If the problem is that something is broken in women (rebellion), how can the solution lie in men trying to “fix” something in themselves (game)?

  62. sunshinemary says:

    At some point, we all have to choose to submit ourselves to Jesus, right? He doesn’t manipulate or game us into it; he lets us choose to submit and live OR rebel and ultimately die. Women are supposed to submit to their husbands as unto the Lord; are we really submitting to them as unto the Lord if they’re just manipulating us into it via game? Is that really choosing submission? Ought we not be allowed to rebel and die as old, childless spinsters if that is what we ultimately choose?

    I’m asking…I really don’t know. I’m trying to understand these things, and I’m not there yet.

  63. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    Dear Sunshine,

    “I’m beginning to wonder if ignoring the feminized church, all marriage counselors, my girlfriends, and the Gamers too is the best course of action and just concentrating on being respectful and submissive. What I’m beginning to suspect is that the men are not the problem here. It’s not they need to man up, it’s that we need to stop being so rebellious.”

    Yes!

    The easiest thing to do is put your game on and “get some” amongst all the berannkified buttcocked womnanz who have been reprogrammed by the central banks’ Cosmo sex tips and tV.

    The harder road is to forgive them, walk away, and be free from having to serve gina tinglez and butttinzinzgzlzozlz

  64. greyghost says:

    GBFM
    You are still wrong. one more thing what makes you think a man knows game is going to even marry an ass phreak in the first place. Maybe that minister with and understanding of game wouldn’t even respond to the ass sore slut the way you discribed in the first place. I would advise the bitch to not marry and be true to her feelings and get back on the cock carousel. That would be some preaching right there. Now if you are as christian as you are passing yourself off to be and had game you would understand what effect a preacher advising a reformed slut like that would have.

  65. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    dear greyghost,

    what gamer has ever spoken out against sodomy?

    i like your turn of phrase, “the ass sore slut.”

    have you ever thought of beocming a minister, or a poet perhaps? perhaps you could write a modern “paradise lost.”

    “An early problem for biographers is what they should make of this relationship. Campbell and Corns do not allow teenage romps and high-flown language between scholarly but lively teenagers to be mistaken for a homosexual affair, and Anna Beer is also judicious. Such friendships between gifted young men may be joyous, even flirtatious, without being more than that, though later on, in a bout of bitter controversy, there were suggestions by his enemies that the young Milton had been a sodomite (sodomy was a capital offense).”
    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2009/feb/26/heroic-milton-happy-birthday/?pagination=false

    lozozoz

  66. Feminist Hater says:

    SSM, back to square one I guess. If you can choose to be rebellious then why would a man ever commit to you? You could simply decide at any point in time to become rebellious and go nuclear on the marriage thus destroying everything. There has to be restriction placed at some point.

    There’s only one choice to be made here for a Christian man, marry a chaste woman who willingly submits herself to his guidance and have the Church support that submission and provide the husband the protection against her rebellious nature as it provides her protection against an overly dominant man.

    It really comes down to a choice for the Church. Are they willing to submit to God’s plan or not. I think the current outcome of Churchianity speaks volumes to the choice made…

  67. Keoni Galt says:

    Women are supposed to submit to their husbands as unto the Lord; are we really submitting to them as unto the Lord if they’re just manipulating us into it via game?

    This is probably the most cited straw man by those who attack game…the old “manipulation” meme. “Manipulation” is just another word for placing all blame on men and removing responsibility on women. A woman who sleeps with a man because he “gamed” her (i.e. seduced her) WANTED to be seduced by him. She liked what he saw, they did the courtship dance (flirting, talking, dancing…whatever it is people are doing to build up attraction and sexual tension), and eventually they get down to business. During the entire courtship phase, the initial attraction she had for him could literally be killed by his actions, behavior or lack thereof…i.e. “He was cute, but as soon as he started talking about his ex-girlfriend, he had this weird look on his face and he sounded like a creepy stalker, so I got the hell away from him!”

    Conversely, if she was initially attracted to him, and they engaged in conversation, and she confirms that her initial assessment was correct – “He’s got a great sense of humor, he had me laughing the whole night!” the seduction proceeds. Who’s “manipulated?”

    In the sense of marriage, oft times a husband “beta-izes” and submits to his wife’s authority. This kills her attraction for him, and the marriage becomes sexless because she develops contempt for her husband. Remember my “Lamentations of a Nice Guy” post you commented on? You wrote:

    Even just reading the nice-guy list is a libido-killer.

    Also, I have noticed that Churchians love espousing the whole “helping out around the house to put her in the mood” idea – this is crap.

    This is precisely why Dalrock wrote the OT about why Christian men should study “game.”

    Because the Churchian culture preaches and teaches men to submit to their wives whims, wants and desires is the path to a happy and fulfilling marriage. When she becomes unhaaaaapppy because she is no longer attracted to the Beta beneath her, he is then told to double down on the niceguy routine to “fix” the problems.

    Women are supposed to submit to their husbands as unto the Lord; are we really submitting to them as unto the Lord if they’re just manipulating us into it via game?

    Women find it much easier to “submit” to a husband for whom she respects, follows and is attracted to. Submission is near impossible for her, if he’s already submitting to her trying to be the “nice guy.”

  68. sunshinemary says:

    Yes, I see your point Keoni. However, aren’t those problems happening because guys have swallowed the “be a nice guy, in tune with all her emotions” meme? As I said, I like the idea of men being masculine in whatever way seems right to them, and avoiding in particular the churchian ideas of supplicating to your wife; I wish I could remember exactly where I read this, but I think it was on Focus from the Family, and the idea put forth was that if a man what things to be hot in the bedroom at night, he has to get things “simmering” in the morning by helping her with the housework. This is the “crap” I was referring to in my comment on your blog. Like I said, it’s great when my husband does the dishes, but it doesn’t turn me on (nor off either – it’s neutral).

    But – wouldn’t women making the choice to submit fix the problem? Wouldn’t that eliminate the need for game? I’m only looking at the context of Christian marriage of course. In that context, isn’t the need for a formalized “game” sort of manipulating her into doing what she is already supposed to do if she is truly a Christian woman? I don’t deny that game probably works, but isn’t it putting a band-aid over the festering wound of the woman’s sinful rebellion?

    Again, I’m just asking…I’m not quite pro- or anti- game at this point, I’m just trying to work this all out in my mind before I go forth to (try to) influence the herd.

  69. Gabriella says:

    Game just makes the submission more instinctual rather than an act of discipline. Kind of like how being a loving, cheerful, and sexy wife makes loving you easy and instinctual rather than an act of discipline.

    If you don’t have to use your willpower doing what you are suppose to in your relationship then you have more willpower to spare for other endeavors. Willpower and self-discipline is like a muscle that can fatigue. You have to use it to strengthen it but you also have to moderate its use so you have it when you need it.

  70. Keoni Galt says:

    Wouldn’t that eliminate the need for game?

    In one respect, Game is precisely what it’s critics say it is, a response to the ascendancy of the feminist paradigm and it’s social engineering program of misandry to emasculate males. We men are brainwashed by mass media society )and especially for many of us here at D’s) and by Churchianity, to become “nice guys.” At the same time, you women are brainwashed by the same forces to become masculine competitors…take charge, kick ass, entitlement princesses.

    Game was not necessary when society was ordered along traditional gender roles. Men learned how to be men by emulating their primary role models – their Fathers. There was no “game” to discuss. They simply observed and mimicked how their Father’s interacted with their feminine mothers.

    But we now live in an age for which many men are raised without that Father as his role model…and he’s subjected to the emasculating brainwashing – aka “the blue pill” his entire life. Instead of emulating a Father, he emulates the most influential role models he’s exposed to – the portrayals of “men” on TV and on the movie screen.

    SSM, the only person anyone can change is themselves.

    Those of us who advocate that men study this thing we call “game” is one way of helping each other to “man up.” Sometimes, a man can do all of that, and his wife is still rebellious and resistant to submission. As a man, he must take control of his destiny, his life, and take responsibility for it. If she refuses to submit, he may have to pull the trigger and walk away.

    Here’s the story of one man for whom this is precisely what he ended up having to do:

    http://hawaiianlibertarian.blogspot.com/2011/02/is-your-home-haven-or-hellhole.html

    I would link you to his blog, but he’s since made it private…but the blogger Mormon Man is one who discovered “the red pill” and began to reassert himself and reclaim his masculinity. His wife resisted and fought with him every step of the way. He reached a point where he realized it was just not going to work, so he got a divorce.

    You can only change yourself.

    As a wife, you could strive your hardest to submit to your husband…but what if he continues to submit to you?

  71. Some Guy says:

    @sunshinemary

    According to Peter, the power of a wife’s submission is so great… it can move their husbands to accept and obey the Word of God. If a woman is more than a wild animal… if she is motivated by something higher than a craving to be taken by alpha stud-horses… if she had access to grace and the power of the holy spirit… then you’d think she would be able to give her husband unconditional respect to the same degree society expects him to give her unconditional.

    “Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.”

  72. Some Guy says:

    whoops, typo: to the same degree society expects him to give her unconditional >LOVE<.

  73. furiousferret says:

    I think that back in the olden days, ‘Game’ wasn’t a requirement because the church and modern society weren’t actively trying to cut men’s balls off.

    However, since we have empowered women to behave like men and made men into feminized betas, some knowledge of ‘Game’ is necessary. Back in the day, men behaving in a mascline way along with some limits on females sexuality, it worked out. You didn’t need to be Don Juan, because 1) men were at least somewhat attractive and 2) women couldn’t easily sleep with alphas when they weren’t worthy of it.

    Now it’s a matter of we have to find a sword sharp enough to get through the upgraded armor. Women demand more attraction while many men have been actively not taught anything to make them attractive.

    Also, what I find hilarous is the scenario that unfolds from average women demanding some type of alpha. So a HB 6 will only accept some type of alpha. So the smart betas realize this and do a type of make over. So the guy 6 will improve his clothing, physique and game knowledge and work his ass off to be worhty enough. However if the beta achieves these goals and know has success with women, he is no way in hell going to want an HB 6 especially after putting in all that work. She will be pure pump and dump material. The HB 6 has essential priced her self out of the market for any type of LTR. Oh the irony.

  74. Jacquie says:

    Doesn’t it all go back to what exactly is ‘game’?

    Everything I have read about game leads me to understand that it is all a matter of cause and effect. Self improvement is going to bring about more attraction from your spouse. Being more masculine will bring out the femininity in a woman, as being more feminine brings out masculinity. If you get a speeding ticket you slow down, just as any crime has its consequences and makes you think twice before committing the act. Current society has taken away the effects of women behaving badly, yet the legal system places effects on men without a cause.

    Men have been taught that women are not to suffer effects so it is not practiced at home, including Christian homes. If a woman experiences cause and effect from her husband, whether called ‘game’ or something else, would she not see her husband as the authority he is to be over her? I realize that the current legal system does not back a husband who only wants to lead his house in an orderly manner and that a system of cause and effect would order a home, so if a wife would respond naturally to the authority her husband would present to her, is it not worth putting into place, again, whether it is called ‘game’ or something else.

    Another aspect is that once that boundaries are established and a wife is fully aware of where they are and that stepping out would reap consequences, however they may be doled out by her husband, then would ‘game’ need to be continually applied?

    Forgive me if I am way off base. I am trying to explain this to the best of my understanding. Perhaps cause and effect is not the best terminology, but does it make some sense?

  75. Jacquie says:

    After some thought I came up with an analogy of what I am trying to say.
    We used to heat our home with a wood stove. The first year we started it up a couple of our children decided to ‘test’ the stove out and touched it. They each felt the burn from the hot metal of the outer shell. From there on when they got close to the stove and felt warmth from it, they steered away from it. During the summer months when the stove was not used, it was cold and they would go near it and touch it with no fear of suffering a burn. They responded naturally to the heat of the stove or the cold of it. To keep the stove hot we had to keep feeding it wood. If we didn’t then the flame died out and the stove became cold again and there was nothing to keep them from touching it. We didn’t have to constantly stand near the stove, hovering to keep them away, just a couple of logs at a time to keep it warm enough to remind them not to touch the stove.

  76. Jacquie, I think I see what you are saying. But I am sceptical that Western men have had much support from the law to rule their households for a long time. What has changed are attitudes as much as laws.

    Also, you seem to be saying that husbands should start visiting consequences on errant wives, and that after a while wives will fall into line more or less permanently. I am sceptical of this as well. I think there are some things that don’t work, such as citing scripture, berating a woman, attempting some kind of punishment, and so on. If a woman doesn’t want to comply, she will ignore this, especially in the heat of the moment.

    Also, women are not consistent. They do not reach a moral position and stick to it in quite the way men do. They are much more affected by fashion, what other women think, and, as I mentioned, by the mood of the moment. I think this is why feminised churches drift doctrinally.

    As for consequences, by the time a woman has cooled down and is ready to accept these, it is effectively too late. Also, of what could consequences consist? In real terms?

    The only way to get a woman to follow is to have her desire to, and I use the word desire on purpose. She has to be afraid of losing the man’s regard and affection. Her punishment or consequences have to be simply his disapproval. And women only care about that if they are in some sense in awe of the man. The man has to establish a frame which the woman wants to fit into, indeed fears not fitting into. It is like those schoolteachers who get compliance with minimal effort because their students are afraid of disappointing them.

    If a man gets the tone right, a woman will be anxious to please him. This is where “Game” helps. I have been applying the principles in my marriage, in recent years more consciously, for some time now. It works well; certainly better than anything else; and it is relatively easy. It is low energy. The other approaches, supplicating or its opposite, a heavy-handed approach, are harder and less effective. Of course it helps not to marry a bitch in the first place. Or a slut.

  77. I will continue to assert that none of this is necessary for people who have a science of mind.

  78. Jacquie says:

    Also, you seem to be saying that husbands should start visiting consequences on errant wives, and that after a while wives will fall into line more or less permanently.

    Not quite. This is where I seem to have difficulty explaining.

    The only way to get a woman to follow is to have her desire to, and I use the word desire on purpose. She has to be afraid of losing the man’s regard and affection.

    This is where we definitely agree.

    Those giving ‘game’ advice are basically saying that certain behaviors/attitude will bring certain results. The advice works because women respond to it naturally. What you applied at home caused the effect from your wife that you desired, so you repeat it. Whether you call it ‘game’ or not it worked.
    I know my husband applies some things with me that would be termed ‘game’ tactics, and even though I know what he’s doing, it causes a response in me that I almost cannot help. I see him as more authoritative and have more of a desire to please him; I don’t want to disappoint him.
    Could I get rebellious? Yes. Do want to? No. I don’t know why, I cannot tell you. I don’t understand. But I do want to obey more so now. I do know and have known throughout our marriage that I need to obey because it pleases God. And I tried many times and failed. I grew frustrated with my husband. Again, don’t understand why and could not tell you. Maybe I even felt a little unsafe and insecure under his leadership. I don’t anymore.
    I feel safe under his leadership. I feel I am in the place I should be maybe because of the place he is in. It is different than what we were taught growing up. The way he leads now is the way that he was told was wrong and not to do it; he has told me that. The way I follow I was also told made me lesser of a person. Even by churches.
    He is confident, decisive, shows strength and sets the tone for our home. Is this considered game? I tend to see it as him exuding his masculinity and bringing out my femininity. This is what I tried to explain by cause and effect; one behavior bringing about another behavior.

  79. Cane Caldo says:

    SSM, the only person anyone can change is themselves.

    Thanks for saying this.

  80. Highwasp says:

    WELL F$#@!K ME PURPLE – a few of you writers seem to be other than what you might have eluded, concluded, innuendo-ed, and wrote circles around.. the point. natural female genetic tendency to hy-per-mah-gy, greedy, shame-less, self absorbed, narcissistic, species specific behavior for the female of the human – whereas the men are intuitively and genetically knowledgeable of being the dis-pos-able, disposable sex, the “get er done” boyz, The MAN UP Biotches, the judges, lawyers, PIs, Cops, Security Geeks…. all competing on man with the other, willing to ‘eliminate’ the competition, Men dispose of each other to buy an opportunity to have sex with a woman whom he truly desires. That’s a BETA-breach of the ALPHA-MALE HIERARCHY, getting access to a babe=10 and being 10 billion sperm to ONE EGG! How Does THAT A$$HOLE RATE?! Can I get an AYE-MEN for Jealousy?

  81. Yes, Jacquie, that makes some sense. I think though that conviction follows emotion. This is true of men and women, but especially women. As you say, it is instinctive. Women react to masculine confidence at the same deep level as men respond to a woman’s beauty. In a sense, women obey men because it satisfies their instincts. My wife is pretty compliant, and some of this may be religious conviction (I honestly don’t know), but I suspect a lot more of it is simply wanting to keep my regard.

    The scriptures are not enough. They have to be lived. They can be of as little day to day use as a manual on how to run a machine. You shouldn’t have to constantly refer back to the manual.

    What you describe in your husband sounds like Game. But there is a bit more to it than that. Men can be all those good things. Strong, confident, noble – but some women will still be sniggering in the background. There are women reading what you wrote right now who are doing just that. A man needs more than that. Many men have done everything right, and still lost it all in a divorce. That much seems clear from the stories one reads. The men often write, “I did everything right, and she still …”

    What is the extra ingredient? Maybe your husband now has it. Is it an edge, a harshness, what we Australians call “a bit of mongrel”? It is that extra thing that men must also have. A willingness to take a risk, perhaps. A small amount of the so-called Dark Triad? I think it is this that modern Christian men have lost.

    The woman has to be able to say to herself, “He seems quite a nice guy, but there was that one time …”

  82. Highwasp says:

    oh Yeah, and Gimme an AYE-MEN for Hypocrisy (Lying)…

    Nothing like a good dose of blaming, shaming and abandoning a certain sect of the population now that there appears to be no use for them – just like the good Old Testament daze… death, damnation, abominations, rapes, tortures, incessts, sacrifices, killings, bestiality, smoking weed –
    you name it – Your Bible is full of it.

    MEN – “Welcome to the Jungle”!

  83. greyghost says:

    Game is not to entertain a woman into being polite. Game is a tool and understanding of female nature for a beta man (good) to survive feral women in a sea of laws of misandry. A man with game doesn’t marry a feral woman from the get go. Basic nature of women is self centered on her own self interest. A submissive wife to her MARRIAGE is doing so in her own self interest. Game will not make a woman virtuous all it does is give a platform for a feral woman to behave in a civil manner all the while she is being true to herself.
    a true civilized woman (lady) sees marriage as a duty and responsiblity (very rare with out social pressure) Comepletely unnatural for a woman that is where the rebellion from christ comes from. A woman must constantly work at being civilized a beta man has to be taught to go against his natural tendencies to learn the first point of “game” He has to be willing to let his love go and she has to know it too. She doesn’t need to be taught that.

  84. Opus says:

    @Cane Caldo

    I am very dubious that one can change even oneself – the popularity and obvious failure of the burgeoning self-help book industry is I think evidence of that – when did you ever meet someone who seemed changed and who on enquiry put it down to some book they had read. People seem to me to be essentially the same over decades – all that changes is that their ingrained chacteristics become more obvious – I do not see that one can change ones propensity to extroversion or introversion, cheerfulness or gloominess. The only real exception to that which I can think of – and it may seem strange that I as a non-believer should say this – is those, like St Paul, or St Francis of Assisi, who have a life-changing religious conversion. I rather doubt one can – without that external push – change ones personality any more than one can alter ones height or looks.

    I thus tend very much to like Yaboy’s suggestion (on the previous thread) that Game is a Tautology, and tempting though it is one should not attempt to make deductive inferences from Tautologies. I await with great interest your essay for this blog as I am – otherwise – generally on your side of the argument.

  85. Opus, I found self-help books quite useful at crucial, stressful times in my life. A book of management tips helped me when I first became a boss.

    Also, something happened to me internally several years ago and I became more assertive. One tends to assume that one grows to adulthood, one’s personality becomes fixed, and that is that. But getting into late middle age has brought further changes for me at least, and not necessarily those I would have expected. Also, the challenges of one’s life can be unique and have their effects. Lastly, ironically, the Manosphere itself has affected my personality.

  86. Opus says:

    @David Collard

    I do not propose on this thread pursuing those matters you raise above (as I fear we would begin to go round in circles – and because, of course, I am in no position to doubt what you say, subjectively, about yourself) but I will approach it from another and I think very interesting view: namely; What can a woman do to make herself more Feminine – and thus make herself more attractive to men? [Radical Sexist Idea, I know😉 ] I realise she can attend finishing school; learn ellocution, how to walk properly, how to stand-up straight, sit-up straight and so on – all valuable skills so regretably missing with most women, but these things can only take a woman so far, if she has neither the looks, figure or character. I supect that the femininity is innate and the lack of grace merely a deal-breaker. I suspect likewise about Game (which is at best an adjunct to masculinity if it exists) – but even the great Samson fell.

  87. Well, I tend to tell anecdotes, as you noted. My wife attended a kind of brief charm school after she met me, and learned some of that stuff, but yes she did have some good basics to work with. But I think it is true to say that the majority of young women have something to work with. Very few young women lack all physical charm, unless they are seriously fat of course. Most women too have some strong point they can emphasise. At a pinch, it can be her personality. I have known some plain girls who just have really good personalities.

    As for men and Game. I don’t know. I think it can be learned. I can’t prove it, and I have had this debate before. But I can look back over my marriage (as Kierkegaard said, we live life forwards but understand it looking back) and see where unconscious and conscious game have made a difference. Also, patterns become obvious. Even the dumbest husband, having observed his wife say one thing and do the opposite often enough, will eventually learn to “ignore the words, watch for the actions”. Or, having behaved with unusual lack of solicitude, perhaps out of momentary peevishness or tiredness, he will observe with surprise that his wife is strangely turned on; whereas bringing home flowers often seems just to annoy her. Hmmm, he thinks, could it be that women don’t really like the gooey stuff, but actually prefer it when I am an “unfeeling brute”?

    Then his suspicions are confirmed when he comes across the theory that explains these observations.

    A final anecdote before I go to sleep. I did a computer programming course once. There was one fairly attractive girl in our group of mostly men. To our horror, she seemed to like best the young man we had nicknamed The Centre, because he evidently thought he was the centre of the universe. He was what Americans call a jerk. At the time, the girl’s behaviour made no sense. But now it does.

  88. Stingray says:

    Dalrock,

    I thought you and some of your readers would like this video I watched last night on youtube.

    The whole thing is a good watch, but the part relevant to this post and to game starts the 8 minute 2 second mark. I posted about the game aspect of it here as well.

  89. CL says:

    @ Stingray

    You might like this too. The tyranny of “nice”!

  90. Pingback: Game in a Christian Marriage | barefoot in a clearing

  91. Stingray says:

    Heh, CL. I posted that same video in my blog post along with video I posted here above. That’s hysterical!

  92. CL says:

    Ah, well there ya go! 7man posted that one on our blog a while back too.

  93. greyghost says:

    By the grace of god greyghost is not a nice person. bitch

  94. sunshinemary says:

    “No more going along to get along…because the place we are going along to is hell itself.”

    Good video clip, CL, thanks for posting it. I’m going to allow my eldest daughter to watch this.

  95. Dalrock, I think this deserve its own post.

    And, by the way, the comment section is a goldmine of fail.

  96. Great clips…. The clip from CL is a “major eye opener”
    Here is one the scripture that supports this.
    Daniel 8:24-25And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practice, and “shall destroy the mighty and the holy people”.
    25And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, “and by peace shall destroy many:”

  97. Btw, I am seriously impressed by Ann in the CL video.

  98. Pingback: So You Want To Become A Pastor? | The Society of Phineas

  99. Pingback: In Defense of Values and Control Of Self | The Society of Phineas

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