Her husband is annoying

Terri has a great new post up titled Your Wife Needs To Read This Blog.  In it she points out how the media is hyping a new website named My Husband Is Annoying by this lovely woman:

Her husband is annoying

Be sure to see Tiffanie Wong and her husband Mark Joyella in action in this video.  At first I thought he was Dan Abrams, but I think this is just because all manginas tend to look alike.

When I visited her most recent post I was shocked to learn that her first husband wasn’t thrilled to be with such a woman:

When my husband at the time told me he no longer wanted to be married a couple months shy of our 2 year anniversary, I felt as if my world were falling apart.

Why would any man give up such a great catch?  I’m sure she was an absolute delight to be married to.  What man doesn’t dream of being publicly emasculated by his wife?

Interestingly she actually has nice things to say about her current husband on the site she dedicated to ridiculing him:

as I look at my amazing husband and my beautiful daughter who both give me more joy than I ever thought possible, I know that this is where I’m supposed to be.

Edit:  I just saw from her About Me page that they were married in March of 2009.  Her first post on the blog is dated July 2009, so she started writing this only four months after they were married.

Sheepdog photo licensed as Creative Commons by Just chaos.

This entry was posted in Ageing Feminists, Manosphere Humor, Marriage. Bookmark the permalink.

63 Responses to Her husband is annoying

  1. Lise says:

    A bit OT but I’d love to read your take on this one:
    TV’s ‘Millionaire Matchmaker’ set up an entertainment reporter, Laura Saltman 39, with one of her millionaires. Within 4 months, Saltman, being the naive ingenue that all 39-year-olds are known to be, somehow fell pregnant. The millionaire wants nothing to do with her and so Saltman is blaming the matchmaker for not screening her clients better:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/24/patti-stanger-millionaire-matchmaker-pregnant_n_935066.html

    Just so you know, Saltman herself has a regular gig on some entertainment sho so she must be pulling in at least 6 figures herself.

  2. Old Glory says:

    Oh God. I just watched the video. She’s frightful. And frumpy. I wouldn’t want to be married to her. The husband seems like a perfectly adequate husband with lots of beer poses.

    I guess, in short, the men and women of every culture deserve each other.

  3. Oak says:

    This is the huge reason I never married. I happen to work at a female dominant work-place, and quickly learned that there is a form of male that is stupid, worthless, and doesn’t deserve happiness. They called these creatures “husbands”. I resolved to never become one.

  4. zed says:

    …quickly learned that there is a form of male that is stupid, worthless, and doesn’t deserve happiness. They called these creatures “husbands”. I resolved to never become one.

    That fits in with my observation that there is no better way to make a woman absolutely hate your guts than to marry her.

  5. Chels says:

    These “bash your boyfriend/husband” fests are sad, not only because men are emasculated, but also because some women are really bad at giving advice on how to solve problems in a couple–that post by Dalrock, “the whispers” completely applies here, its consequences are disastrous as their advice doesn’t solve anything, it just makes things worse.

  6. terri says:

    Thanks for the linkage, Dalrock. I’d never seen that video. Wow!

  7. joanna says:

    Why would any man go on national TV and let his wife muddy his character is such a fashion?

  8. Chels says:

    Why would any man go on national TV and let his wife muddy his character is such a fashion?

    Because of the culture we live in, men are regularly insulted in the media or elsewhere; and no one says anything; we’ve grown so accustomed to it. He probably doesn’t even know that it’s wrong, he thinks that it’s just a big a joke, since we all know that men are just big babies and women are superior to men, which this whole website is basically reinforcing.

  9. The Continental Op says:

    It’s demoralizing to see a man act like that, for someone named Tiffanie.

    [D: Good point. My wife saw the video and said I was being unfair to the sheepdog.]

  10. RL says:

    I don’t understand. If she makes fun of her husband because of some negative criterion doesn’t it reflect back badly on her, and implies she made a suboptimal mating choice?

    And why does this guy go on this talk show, shouldn’t he be instead busy kicking his wife’s bum for severe disobedience and lack of submission?

  11. That’s just mean. I don’t get why he’s playing along with it. If I complained like that, especially in public, my second post would be “my husband is so annoying, he’s changed the locks and won’t let me in the house”. What is wrong with people?

  12. Iowa Jim says:

    Tiffanie hasn’t missed many meals recently, has she?

    Not a nice voice, either.

    What a whole lot of women in the US don’t realize is that they, like the US auto makers, have foreign competition. Women around the world realize that American men are the nicest men in the world, and American men are catching on that American women are among the nastiest women. For the past twenty years, I have refused to date American women, and I’m much happier for it.

  13. demirogue says:

    Instead of annoying them I think I’ll just simply avoid them.

  14. Buck says:

    OMG!!!
    That video…
    No wonder the guy has a beer in hand for every picture….as Bluto Blutarski says to Flounder, “I suggest you start drinking heavily”.
    And her with the mo-mo, fat camo, dress.

    This poor guy, he isn’t a husband, he’s a hostage. He really should suggest a couples karate class just so he can …oh never mind, just a passing thought. I don’t condone wife beating…but I sure understand it!

  15. Anonymous Reader says:

    This “husband is annoying” site and others that are similar matter because they essentially are reinforcing the whispers, although in this case they look more like shouts. They are like some daytime TV shows embedded on the web.

    It’s the web equivalent of middle aged housefraus standing around in someone’s kitchen, wearing curlers, drinking coffee and bitching about how much work they have to do (that they aren’t doing).

  16. Bob says:

    How exactly is a man supposed to stop a woman who is determined to do this? By the time a wife comes up with the idea for an “emasculate my husband!” blog, he’s already so low on Alpha cred that it would be unrealistic to expect him to persuade her to stop. There’s nothing he could legally do short of getting an injunction against his own wife for libel, and even that would be unlikely to get past a judge because (A) what’s being said is either true or opinion, and (B) she’s a woman.

    It’s the same logic as the “your marriage should never be one, five, or fifty failed shit tests from failure” lesson Dalrock came up with before. If the woman lacks the moral integrity to restrain herself – i.e., she’s in the majority – don’t do anything but FWB her.

  17. Anacaona says:

    OH GOD! Please not another one!!!
    I think MRA should just focus on one thing that I think will improve SMP by 50%.
    GET THIS TYPE OF WOMEN TO SHUT THE HELL UP!!!
    If we could pass a law that made any blog,video or website that glorified treating men like crap, we will solve a lot of the issues not to mention maybe women won’t think this is funny and/or empowering that fast if there were no sisters doing it too and getting attention for it…maybe.

  18. Codeazure says:

    The post Reader Submission : Robin on the Husband Is Annoying site is particularly obnoxious.
    http://myhusbandisannoying.com/2011/07/15/reader-submission-robin-2/

    She says “…My fiance is obsessed with packages…He orders at least one a month…He deployed for 7 months a few years ago, and the packages piled up all over th place. There were at least eight of them when he came home.” Oh my God, how could she move in the house?…

    So this guy is in the military, goes away for long periods. His life is hard & his (perhaps only) fun is to buy things online once a month. But this is ridiculed as OCD and obsessive. She moans about having to help him pick them up.

    She doesn’t think about what this man is doing for her or the country. All she can see is her having to delay the trivia of her life for something that gives him pleasure once a month as annoying. This is exactly the kind of self obsessed behaviour that sends us to sites like this. Disgraceful attitude…

  19. Anonymous Reader says:

    Chels
    Then there’s this too:

    http://mywifeisabitch.net/about/

    There’s a support group for that. It usually meets in most bars between 5:00PM and closing time. As a former bartender, I’m familiar with it. Putting it on the web is just as stupid as the “annoying husband” site, for a variety of reasons.

    All of this kind of reminds me of a trailer park I resided in long, long ago…

  20. MarkyMark says:

    Thanks for yet ANOTHER reminder of why I’m single…

  21. Jennifer says:

    LOL Funny, Anon.

    Funny thing is, one man in her “About” section said that he just loved her blog. His name, however, links to a site about manipulating a wife’s emotions for sex. Like attracts like, I guess.

  22. greyghost says:

    Does this guy have kids with that cow? That video was disgusting and on TV. What in the hell was that guy doing. I would never let a bitch talk to me like that ever, screw the law. At the very least he should have made an on air comment to the effect “you have a lot of nerve with your fat ass making a website like that about your husband. It is a good thing you have the kid as a hostage against me other wise you would be single”. He would be fully justified taking a propane torch to her face.
    This post is why I’m for MGTOW,PUA and will continue advocating for a male culture of involuntary childless spinsterhood for women. This guy is legal bound and enforced at taser and gun point to be abused by his wife and there is nothing he can legaly do about it. He will have his child removed from him and be forced to pay his abuser as said before all enforced at gun point. This simple video is why we have the MRM and is where suicides and murders come from.
    For those of you christian women out there this is what oppression looks like. That is second class citizenship.

  23. Jennifer says:

    Too true, greyghost. I was stunned when I first found that feminism wasn’t what I thought it was, and not at all compatible with my faith.

    http://www.amazon.com/Flipside-Feminism-What-Conservative-Women/dp/1935071270/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317094230&sr=1-1

  24. imnobody says:

    Then there’s this too:

    http://mywifeisabitch.net/about/

    You’ll never see it in TV though. Not treated in a sympathetic manner either.

  25. Höllenhund says:

    @Old Glory

    “I guess, in short, the men and women of every culture deserve each other.”

    This is probably the upteenth time I come across this supposed gem of wisdom from the journalist Spengler, but I think it’s a dangerous statement that is not fully thought through. If we accept it, Western men should have absolutely no reason to avoid marriage 2.0.

  26. Johnycomelately says:

    Reminds me of a conversation I overheard from the cleaning staff after one of the hotel staffers ‘beat up’ her husband in front of the guests, “In my country (somewhere in the Balkans), if a woman did that to her husband she would be in a hospital.”

    There’s self deprecation and then there is bending over and taking it up the proverbial……

  27. Joe Blow says:

    The interesting thing about this is that the “My Husband is Annoying” woman paints herself as being oppressed by her husband, but in reality what is keeping her down is her f***ed up attitude. Hey, guess what… people are annoying. Having a good marriage is about learning how to forgive or ignore each other’s foibles, and to focus on the fun and the joint work you do together. A woman whose husbands sins are minor, but then says “my husband is terrible because although he provides shelter and feeds my child, it’s not exactly the way I like it” doesn’t look oppressed; she looks like somebody who is a slave to her own selfishness and neuroses.

  28. Lavazza says:

    Höllenhund: To me it means the same as “to every action there is a reaction”. The reaction might lag, but it will eventually come. And the more the reaction has lagged, the more forceful it will be. So read it as “over time the men and women of every culture deserve each other’s treatment”. You have to remember that due to cheap energy and cheap credit we’ve been living in a state of abundance, that has lowered the relative value of what men offer women. At least that’s my take on it.

  29. Dalrock says:

    @Greyghost

    Does this guy have kids with that cow? That video was disgusting and on TV. What in the hell was that guy doing. I would never let a bitch talk to me like that ever, screw the law. At the very least he should have made an on air comment to the effect “you have a lot of nerve with your fat ass making a website like that about your husband. It is a good thing you have the kid as a hostage against me other wise you would be single”. He would be fully justified taking a propane torch to her face.

    She started this 4 months after their wedding, and I’m guessing she wasn’t pregnant yet. This guy signed on for the ride, and in the video he continued to go along with it. My read on him is he is generally a very competent guy, who has bought into the whole bow and scrape to the wife bit our feminist culture teaches. I’ll bet he is pretty funny, and no nonsense when he needs to be at work. He probably would have some decent natural game if he got out of the frame he is in with his wife.

    In the end I think this blog hurts the wife a great deal. She isn’t getting any younger or skinnier, and she has the best man she could get when she was more attractive. Part of her knows this, which is why you see the periodic reference to him being a good man, her loving him, etc. But she is creating her own hell. He leaves socks in a non sock approved area, and she takes a picture to share with the world and writes a blog post on it; now she can never forget the great sock crisis of April 2011. But she likes the attention, so she can’t fully stop (I notice that she has slowed way down in her posting, and has been publishing mostly guest posts for several months now).

    But both the husband and the wife are adults, free to do what they want. If the husband wants to be emasculated by his wife because he thinks it is all a big joke, he is free to do so. And if the wife wants to set up a war between her own (and her kid’s) best interest and her hind brain in order to get attention and fulfill her feminist need, so be it. But they are willing pawns of the media, spreading this toxic waste to other marriages. How many kids will grow up in broken homes because this woman needed to get her girlpower/attention fix? I guess at least she will know she left her mark on the world.

    The one saving grace is I don’t think her site draws that much traffic. I double checked Alexa and this blog pulls much more traffic than hers. I also checked my stats and this blog sent around 150 230 hits to her site yesterday, with plenty more coming today. If she is watching her stats, she would have noticed that one.

  30. Dalrock says:

    Another incident published for all to read (and her to always remember): The great it’s going to snow and I’m already annoyed at him for not shoveling it incident of January 2011. I won’t recount the horror of it here, because his potentially not shoveling the snow to her satisfaction is too difficult to bear remembering long enough to describe it.

    But one comment by Meghan is very powerful:

    Live for today. My husband is fighting cancer. I don’t want him to waste a minute shoveling or doing any other bit of crap that doesn’t add up to anything. Hire someone. Get a 4-wheel drive. Get fined. Who cares. Just close the blinds. Life is short. Eventually it melts. Deal with it in a positive way. Somehow it will work itself out and you will both spend a loving day in front of the fireplace, acting like young lovers. It works.

    And another commenter kcmookie calls commenter lis out on her passive aggression:

    Lis, most people call that being passive-aggresive. I feel sorry for your husband.

    Here is the comment she was responding to:

    My husband refuses to shovel the snow. I am learning to give up on things like that. Not, going to happen. He is clueless to the fact that I am making his life hell on purpose at times. Honey like the toothpaste tube squeezed from the bottom, hmmmm squeezing from the top again, oops I forgot. Honey likes his medicine bottles on the beside table, oops they are on the floor for some reason. Honey doesn’t like to go to social events by himself, oops, forgot, not up to it.

    So there is some (inadvertent) good coming from this site, and clearly NAWLT.

  31. Chels says:

    What a BITCH!

    LOL Jen, that’s exactly what I was thinking–perhaps her husband should have a website of his own about what a bitch of a wife he has.

  32. slwerner says:

    Chels – “LOL Jen, that’s exactly what I was thinking–perhaps her husband should have a website of his own about what a bitch of a wife he has.”

    I would absolutely disagree. The types of things she is “airing” are the sorts of things that couples should deal with privately, first and foremost.

    As a long-timer around the Manosphere, I’ve read plenty from men who needed to vent about their dissolving marriages, and while I felt for them in their circumstances, I know for certain that it becomes unhealthy to read too much of that sort of stuff.

    Additionally, I would also suggest that I find venting about a relationship that’s ending to be substantively different than venting about a supposedly loving and intact relationship. Still, I can only stomach just so much of the former.

    I didn’t go to the My Husband Is Annoying site. Nor did I follow your link to mywifeisabitch.net. I can only guess that neither site has any content that I would find worth-while. If people are so unhappy with their spouses that they feel they need to publicly bitch about them, then my opinion is that they should just get divorced (and post one long rant about their ex rather than an on-going diatribe).

    Just my two cents.

  33. Chels says:

    I agree Slwerner, but it seems like she will never understand why what she’s doing is wrong. Despite of all the negative comments she gets, she still maintains that she’s just joking, that she’s not serious, and that the people complaining can’t take a joke.

    Maybe if the tables were reversed, she would see just how insulting it is what she’s doing.

  34. BikerDad says:

    Not directly related to this topic, but close enough:

    Here’s another entry in the “the problem that has no name” catalog. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/iris-krasnow/the-fine-line-between-mar_b_959372.html?ncid=webmail3

    [D: Good find. Painful. What is amazing is how few people are aware of the constant drumbeat that articles like that one represent. Constantly trying to find a new way to sell divorce to women. There is a grotesque cruelty to it, with women egging each other on to make irrevocable mistakes.]

  35. Jennifer says:

    “The types of things she is “airing” are the sorts of things that couples should deal with privately, first and foremost”

    Amen.

  36. Brendan says:

    Yeah that article is more than a bit perturbing, really. One wonders what the point of it all is if your wife is virtually guaranteed to seriously consider leaving at some point just because she’s bored (effectively what the article says), and the only way to alleviate that is for H+W to lead largely separate lives. Why bother being married then?

    [D: She doesn’t have any hard data, just a lot of interviews with other bitchy women like herself. It is just more whispers.]

  37. Anacaona says:

    LOL Jen, that’s exactly what I was thinking–perhaps her husband should have a website of his own about what a bitch of a wife he has.

    Apparently things will only get worse in the interview he says that he has veto power in what can be blogger or not so he is doing some damage control. Also is likely he doesn’t take her annoying habits as hard as she take his.

  38. Höllenhund says:

    @Lavazza

    ‘And the more the reaction has lagged, the more forceful it will be. So read it as “over time the men and women of every culture deserve each other’s treatment”.’

    Maybe, but is that how it comes across to most people? I don’t think so. When you say “the men and women in this culture deserve each other”, you’re effectively telling them they have no justification to complain about the general behavior of the opposite sex.

  39. greyghost says:

    Dalrock
    My read on him is he is generally a very competent guy, who has bought into the whole bow and scrape to the wife bit our feminist culture teaches.

    I had to watch the video twice the first time was just too much. The second time i was checking out the husband and you have nailed it. This guy is what we say in the manospere is on “the blue pill”
    Anybody that doesn’t quite get what being on the blue pill is, well this video and husband and wife couple is an example.
    Dalrock one more thing to add this woman was previously married and got left on a in her opinion a whim by her husband. That really got to her. This time around she made sure she had a hostage. I will bet she was knocked up on or around her wedding day. No way in hell was this guy going to get away like the other. She also got a guy she could control better. Her last man took a better job and moved to it.

  40. greyghost says:

    BikerDad
    I checked out that article and it looks like as dalrock put a continueing of normalizing divorce. Does a 55 year old woman have any idea what being freshly divorced means? That is maybe the cruel thing a woman can do to another. It is like the devil himself is actively possessing media types. I could write a very credible movie script of the devil at work off some of this stuff.
    The scary thing about this 2 or 3 years ago I would not have even noticed. Not a good thing to not notice for a husband and father in todays world.

  41. Jennifer says:

    “When you say “the men and women in this culture deserve each other”, you’re effectively telling them they have no justification to complain about the general behavior of the opposite sex”

    Oo, touche.

  42. Buck says:

    Bikerdad,
    Interesting article!

    I spent most of June at graduation parties, saw lots of old friends and relatives, drank lots of beer, chatted with the assorted guys about cars, sports, work, etc. Not one guy would Marry again if given the choice. Almost all would divorce in a second if it would not ruin them financially. Women grant interviews to writers for books, men just smile and think it, but it is not 51%, it’s way more like 95% would bail.
    The biggest benefit most men claimed was the children, most love their kids and look at the kids as the only good thing to come out of their marriages. Most used kid activities as a great way to spend time away from bitchy wives.

  43. Badger says:

    Buck’s comment is what concerns me whenever I think about the overall marital marketplace. I am guessing marriage follows a 20-60-20 distribution – about 20% are happy, 60% mediocre, and 20% absolutely miserable.

    Women like to shame men as “afraid of commitment,” but the fact is that if the majority of men were really benefitting from marriage, guys would be buying “Modern Groom” magazines and lining up for nuptials.

    I make a similar point to Susan Walsh when I argue that young-adult relationships aren’t that rewarding, and that much of young women’s “benefits” of relationships are in the form of social proof to their girlfriends (“look at me, I have a man!”), and most importantly, if relationships were rewarding to young men, they’d be climbing over each other to get into them.

    I’m not anti-marriage or anti-relationship by any means, but I have to look seriously at the overall male experience, that of a large proportion of men openly regretting marriage.

    One of the great services Dalrock and Athol Kay do is to publicize the good of their marriages, without the clueless Polyanna shtick that a lot of the trad-con men do (which brings with it the misandrist canard that “if your marriage sucks it’s because you’re not man enough to keep a woman.”)

  44. Jennifer says:

    Jon Finkel’s one of the most awesome, self-assured and generous guys I’ve ever seen. That annoying witch who dropped him was a fool of the worst sort.

  45. Lavazza says:

    “@Lavazza

    ‘And the more the reaction has lagged, the more forceful it will be. So read it as “over time the men and women of every culture deserve each other’s treatment”.’

    Maybe, but is that how it comes across to most people? I don’t think so. When you say “the men and women in this culture deserve each other”, you’re effectively telling them they have no justification to complain about the general behavior of the opposite sex.”

    Individuals of one sex are “paying” for what other individuals of both sexes have done and are doing (like men not learning and adapting quickly enough or women going for their short term interests) . The individual does not “deserve” that in a moral or individual sense. It’s just saying that there is always an overall market equilibrium.

  46. Will says:

    “greyghost says:
    September 26, 2011 at 10:14 pm
    Does this guy have kids with that cow? That video was disgusting and on TV. What in the hell was that guy doing. I would never let a bitch talk to me like that ever, screw the law. At the very least he should have made an on air comment to the effect “you have a lot of nerve with your fat ass making a website like that about your husband. It is a good thing you have the kid as a hostage against me other wise you would be single”. He would be fully justified taking a propane torch to her face.
    This post is why I’m for MGTOW,PUA and will continue advocating for a male culture of involuntary childless spinsterhood for women. This guy is legal bound and enforced at taser and gun point to be abused by his wife and there is nothing he can legaly do about it. He will have his child removed from him and be forced to pay his abuser as said before all enforced at gun point. This simple video is why we have the MRM and is where suicides and murders come from.
    For those of you christian women out there this is what oppression looks like. That is second class citizenship.”

    This is why Tom Leykis says
    “Only Women and Children benefit from Marriage. Most of the benefits Men get from Marriage, they can get without being Married.”

    You could make an exception for the Happy Marriages, but how many of those (happy marriages) are there? They seem to be in the minority.

    This is why if the institution of Marriage is to continue, there need to be a change to the Divorce and Child Custody laws – such as 100% enforcable Pre-Nups and 50/50 Child custody or a return to 100% Father custody (highly unlikely).

    Giving Women Legal power over Men in Marriage, leads to the husbands being held hostage and not treated very well. If the Legal powers in the Marriage were more equally split, this would alter the balance of Power in the Marriage which normally is the Women being in charge/control.

    Currently as it stands the husband can only be “in charge” on the Wifes whim, as she has all the legal power backed up by the state using armed police and prisons.

  47. dragnet says:

    “I make a similar point to Susan Walsh when I argue that young-adult relationships aren’t that rewarding, and that much of young women’s “benefits” of relationships are in the form of social proof to their girlfriends (“look at me, I have a man!”), and most importantly, if relationships were rewarding to young men, they’d be climbing over each other to get into them.”

    I think this is truer for marriage than for young relationships. I think many beta schlubs would kill for even a relationship, and most alphas would never settle for exclusivity no matter how incredible the relationship was. Even under more patriarchal times, men still had harems even though women were docile, feminine, attentive, etc. I’m not sure a woman could ever offer a true alpha enough to make him stay exclusive to her.

    But I agree on marriage—if it was so awesome, men would be doing everything possible to get married. A key disconnect here is that when women cite the “benefits” of marriage, they always cite “benefits” that men don’t really care about. I read articles from women all the time about how married men live longer, make more money, are more stable, respected, etc. Sure, these things are important to men—but not too many guys would get married solely for these benefits.

  48. Höllenhund says:

    @dragnet

    “A key disconnect here is that when women cite the “benefits” of marriage, they always cite “benefits” that men don’t really care about.”

    To be more precise: benefits that women care about much more than men do (children and family, social status, commitment, emotional fulfillment)

    “I read articles from women all the time about how married men live longer, make more money, are more stable, respected, etc.”

    A long time ago this issue was discussed on The Spearhead. (Sorry, can’t find the link. Plus many old comments there are currently accessible only after registering to the forum). Novaseeker, TFH and others (if my memory serves me right) pointed out that these statistics are carefully manipulated. They include all divorced and never-remarried men – whose life expectancy, health condition and financial situation are all abysmal – in the category of “single” men. This, of course, creates a false and negative image of bachelorhood and puts the idea of marriage for men in an unrealistically good light – as intended by the people who compiled the statistics in the first place, of course.

    @Badger

    „Women like to shame men as “afraid of commitment,””

    This statement of theirs is not entirely untrue but the situation is obviously much more complex. It is generally true that young men are more reluctant than women to initiate a committed relationship whereas young women are more reluctant than young men to stay committed. It is also true that women generally demand commitment but are averse to giving it. This has already been discussed many times in this corner of the Internet, this blog included.

    The reason for young women’s attitude is obviously our old friend, female hypergamy, plus evo psych. No explanation needed there. The explanation for men’s attitude is, in my judgment, the general social attitude towards men’s role in relationships, which is an attitude based on gynocentrism and gynonormativity. The general social consensus is that men should be the givers and women should be the takers in a relationship („bringing home the bacon” etc). In other words, society believes it’s primarily men’s responsibility to keep relationships running smoothly. For example, if the girlfriend/wife cheats and/or cuckolds, normally the man is blamed (he left her unfulfilled, he got lazy, he wasn’t manly enough etc.). Given this lopsided situation, men’s attitude is understandable.

  49. Brendan says:

    Buck’s comment is what concerns me whenever I think about the overall marital marketplace. I am guessing marriage follows a 20-60-20 distribution – about 20% are happy, 60% mediocre, and 20% absolutely miserable.

    I think that’s about right, but that there is fluidity between those bands and also some variety within them, especially in the middle one. That is, marriages can, and do, migrate from happy to mediocre and then possibly stay there or migrate back to happy or deteriorate further into miserable. Some marriages are mediocre from the beginning, too.

    Whether they last has more to do with the personalities involved (especially of the woman), expectations and values.

    Certain personas are less tolerant of mediocrity than others, even if there are some real benefits to the marriage, and will simply not be able to tolerate that situation long-term. Sometimes this is innate (think of the person who has to spend five minutes explaining to the waiter precisely how he/she wants the meal prepared or who routinely sends food back and so on), and sometimes it is egged-on (as Dalrock talks about here, as an aspect of choice addiction), but when it is present it tends to undermine the ability to tolerate a mediocre situation for anything longer than a relatively short period of time.

    Expectations play a significant role, too. If you have very high expectations for the “fun” and “happy” aspects of marriage, and yours doesn’t satisfy those, dissatisfaction goes through the roof very quickly. This is, I think, a challenge for many couples today, precisely because expectations are so very high, and people generally plan to have “all their ducks in a row” before they get married — meaning that if expectations are not satisfied durably once the work and effort of getting said ducks in a row has been done, exit visas may be sought out relatively quickly to replace the situation with one that satisfies expectations and “justifies” the effort of getting said ducks in a row.

    And, of course, values play a role, but probably the least significant one. Values are easily over-ridden by a rationalization hamster working for a mediocrity-intolerant persona or a person who has had his/her expectations dashed, regardless of “values”. Someone who is fundamentally dissatisfied and less mediocrity tolerant will have a much harder time sticking to their values than someone who is more “easy-going” (for lack of a better word) or more realistic in expectations will.

    There are men and women on both sides of these spectra, but in my own experience, women are, very generally, the ones with the higher expectations in marriages *and* often the ones who are less mediocrity tolerant than men are. These dynamics tend to make women unhappy in the marriages *first*, before their husbands are — because their husbands are more tolerant of mediocrity and/or had different expectations going in. What happens next, of course, depends on the dynamics of the situation and the people involved, but generally once that wifely unhappiness is expressed, men tend to start getting unhappy. Sometimes this leads tro cheating. Sometimes it leads to divorce. And sometimes it leads to a kind of marital stalemate — i.e., a long-term low mediocre or poor marriage that people stay in because of values or kids or other circumstances. It very much varies in terms of the result. But the key, it seems to me, is avoiding certain personality types and certain expectation horizons when you are entering marriage, because these are the kinds of things that can lead to unhappiness very quickly in a life that is, by definition, going to be characterized by a good deal of routine and, yes, mediocrity.

  50. nugganu says:

    Somehow I ended up on a link about Betty Friedan. Ugh. Betty Friedan – the Josef Mengele of the feminist movement.

  51. deti says:

    @ Buck:

    “I spent most of June at graduation parties, saw lots of old friends and relatives, drank lots of beer, chatted with the assorted guys about cars, sports, work, etc. Not one guy would Marry again if given the choice. Almost all would divorce in a second if it would not ruin them financially.”

    If I had to go back and do it over again, would I marry? Probably not.
    Now that I am married, would I divorce? Only for abuse, abandonment, adultery or addiction.

    Do I love my wife? Absolutely. Has she been perfect? Far from it.
    Do I wish I had known then what I know now? God yes. You don’t even know. I wish I had gone into marriage with my eyes more open and without the misinformation and outright falsehoods that comprises mainstream marriage and relationship advice.
    Was I fortunate? Absolutely.
    Would I marry again if for some reason I found myself single again? No.

  52. Pingback: An Elder’s Wisdom on Mediocrity and Marriage | The Badger Hut

  53. Buck says:

    Deti,
    I find myself in a similar circumstance to you.
    RE the graduation season…here is a fictionalized selection of comments…names changed, but content accurate.
    The guys…
    .hey Bob, your lawn looks great, it that turf builder?
    Hey Jim, nice car, is that a 350 with fuel injectors, how does it run.
    Hey bill, my your son can really hit a ball…congrats.

    The Gals…
    how many beers does that make? haven’t you had enough?
    Are you eating another brat?
    Have the fruit salad, it’s healthier for you than that potato salad?
    I’d love a new kitchen Betty, but some guys just aren’t handy?
    Oh yes, Steve has gained weight, but I love him anyway. ( this from a woman who is 60 pounds heavier than she was on her wedding day).
    Hey dear, comb you hair, while you still have something to comb.

    The bible speaks of constant dripping on a rainy day and a cantankerous wife being equally irritating.
    Gals, this is the root of most guys’ dissatisfaction with marriage, your inability to shut the hell up!
    The ubiquitous, vociferous criticism that lingers like a pall over a marriage, is corrosive in the extreme.
    The old adage, if you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing at all….NO SHIT!!!
    When I hang with the guys I never get unsolicited advice or editorial comments…EVER!
    We guys just suck it up, but if we ever decided to go bitch on you gals, you would all be in therapy…trust me, we guys could show you what being critical is all about!

  54. deti says:

    Buck:

    I hear you. Man, do I hear you loud and clear.

    I’m fortunate. Most wives use their husbands as fodder for jokes. Most openly belittle, make fun of and berate them in public. These are wives at my CHURCH. My wife doesn’t do that.

    She did it a couple of times when I told her that I did not appreciate her running me down in public and that she would not be doing it again. She hasn’t.

    I’ve also had to tell her not to question my discipline or fathering of our kids in front of the kids, and that if she thought I was wrong she needed to tell me privately. She complied.

    Sometimes men need to tell their wives that they are running their mouths too much and they need to shut up. Fortunately I don’t have to do this nearly as much now.

    And what man hasn’t had this implicit threat from a wife, usually an immature wife who doesn’t feel accountable for her words or conduct. The threat usually consists of shaming the husband followed by the threat of withholding sex if the man questions her, protests her treatment, tells her to stop complaining or running him down in public, or otherwise pushes back.

    The old me responded with “I’ll do whatever you want!”

    The new, post-Game me responds with “you want to withhold sex? Fine. You’ve pulled back your trump card. Now I’ll withdraw mine: the investment/commitment card. I trusted you with the money. That’s over. Give me your checkbook, your debit card and your credit cards. I’ll give you an allowance to run the house and buy the food. And I won’t be helping with household chores in the evenings. You can do that yourself. You want to act like a child? You’ll be treated like one. You let me know how long you want this to go on.” A day of two of this brought the stalemate to an end.

    Now if this went on and sex is withheld, I might then say “You’re continuing to withhold sex. Frankly I consider this to be marital abandonment and neglect of your spousal obligations to me. It’s grounds for divorce. What are you going to do?”

    Fortunately it’s not gotten to that point.

  55. Chels says:

    This is getting ridiculous, bordering on insane. I don’t know any woman who doesn’t want to know or that doesn’t care about how her husband feels about her and how he treats her. No woman in a stable relationship wants to have to play endless games or jump through loopholes just to feel loved. No woman wants to have her affection rejected or to always be the first one who shows it.

    And show me the man who got dumped because he was loving with his gf or his wife.

    Now this might come as a shock, but cold and aloof might work at the beginning, but it certainly doesn’t work in LTR or in marriages.

    PS: Badger, a 1-2 year relationship does not count; if anything, it’s just proof he can’t make a relationship work long term.

  56. Chels says:

    Ignore the above comment, posted in the wrong thread.

  57. Pingback: “How Do You Like Being Married?” | The Badger Hut

  58. Paul says:

    I think I found the worst post on the entire blog

    http://myhusbandisannoying.com/2009/11/09/the-tables-are-turned/

    It’s written by the husband. For his birthday she “lets” him have a go at her for once, and what does the schlub do? he spends the whole post talking about how “amazing” she is.

    Ugh, dude really? have some self-respect.

    I dunno, some guys get off on being hmiliated, maybe that’s his thing, but if it were me? i couldn’t stand it. If I were so annoying that my wife felt the need to blast it over the internet, obviously she’d be better off without me. Being single isn’t /that/ bad.

  59. Ya Boy Matt says:

    Lately this whole cuckold thing that’s been on the rise makes a lot more sense to me. The Red Pill has explained every single aspect of this hideous fetish that is on the rise.

  60. Some things in life are inevitable- death, taxes, and irritation.
    People cause irritation and a person you will cause irritation.
    What I find simply amazing is the lack of introspection, not being content with her condition, and blames those around her for her shallowness.

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