Boring loyal dudes

I will work harder!

–Boxer, Animal Farm

The breathless Daily Mail headline asks: The 40-year itch: Divorce is falling in every age group except the over-60s – so why ARE so many couples splitting after a lifetime together?

It turns out once a husband has put in his decades of toil supporting his wife and children, he isn’t needed anymore.  But what to do with him?  You can’t sell him to the glue factory.  Luckily however you can divorce him for the crime of being boring, and start enjoying the bliss that is post marital spinster retirement!

And women, the prime instigators of this rise in late-life separations, are citing the deathly hush that descends on their homes when their children leave as one of the prime causes of marital breakdown.

For a glimpse into how this works, consider the case of Sarah and Thomas.  Sarah used her impressive communications skills in an effort to save their marriage, but Thomas reacted in a totally unexpected way:

‘I used to scream at him: “Talk to me!” But he’d just walk away.

Despite Sarah’s pleasant demeanour, Thomas inexplicably didn’t crave her constant company:

He had no interest in our doing anything together, even having a meal out or planning a weekend away.

But luckily for Sarah she is still a hot babe, who no doubt was anxious to dump her worn out workhorse of a husband and get on the hunt for a hot young stud!

And many women of Sarah’s age are staying fit and attractive for longer and are loath to settle for the quiet retirement their husbands – who, like Thomas, have often been their family’s main breadwinner – crave after they quit their demanding jobs.

These boring loyal dudes have victimized their wives with their insistence on working tirelessly for decades to support their family.  The wives find themselves wondering;  where is the me in keeping my solemn vow?

The majority of women who divorce in later life, she says, are trying to retrieve their identity.

…They often feel resentful that their husbands have invested so much effort in their work and so little time in them.

Another victim of a husband who selfishly slaved to support his family is Margaret White.  She was forced to divorce her husband Peter and take hundreds of thousands of dollars which he thoughtlessly amassed for them over the decades.  Despite Margaret’s obviously congenial disposition, Peter failed to sufficiently yearn for her delightful conversation:

‘He never talks to me, and if he’s in a mood, he’ll go for weeks without saying a word. Everything about him irritates me. I just want to get as far away from him as possible.

And what should stop her?  Sure she made a solemn vow in front of God, their friends, and their family, but she didn’t know she was marrying a criminal.  I hereby find her husband Peter guilty of the crime of boringness, with added charges of pre-meditated industry and loyalty:

‘I was brought up to believe marriage was for ever, but I was never told it could be so boring, particularly once he retires and is suddenly under your feet every minute of every day.’

I haven’t come to this ruling without evidence:

Peter retired as a City of London stonemason seven years ago and expected to live out his final years with his wife in their dream home…

…I thought when I retired that’s what we’d do…

The layabout quit being a stone mason in his youthful mid 60s.  Now he thinks he has earned a time of rest!

Yet another woman victimized by a boring loyal husband is Trisha Watson.  Her story is quite empowering!

‘I’m thoroughly enjoying my freedom. I have time and money to do exactly what I want, instead of having to worry about a man all the time. It’s a relief,’

I’ll bet it is a relief!  Keeping promises is hard!  And what is the point after the other side has already generated as much wealth as he was capable of?  Luckily she has heroically reinvented herself!

‘I’ve changed everything about myself, from my hair to the way I dress,’

She won a victory for the sisterhood after her husband asked more of her than she had to give:

‘John felt that I no longer understood him or his needs and I thought he was acting like a big baby. I just got fed up,’…

‘I think women of my age are no longer prepared to endure immature men who erode our self-esteem.

You go aging martyr girl!  Their daughter kept up the momentum of the victory and dealt out her own punishment on her boring loyal father.  She didn’t invite him to her wedding and instead had her mother give her away.

Sisterhood: 2  Patriarchy:  0!

So how has it worked out for our heroes of the sisterhood?  Have they fallen prey to the strong statistical likelihood of ending up less happy and alone?  Certainly not!  First there is Sarah:

‘I’m sure I made the right decision…
‘I miss being part of a big family. I miss all the memories associated with our marital home. I keep very busy, but coming back to an empty house is lonely.’

Following up with her own ringing endorsement of the bliss that is late life divorce is Trisha.  While she had to give up the vacations she used to take with her husband, now she has an exciting dating life:

In three years she has been out with several men, but she thinks it ‘unlikely’ she’ll marry again or sacrifice her financial independence to a new partner.

Have these boring loyal dudes learned their lesson?  Do they acknowledge their responsibility for ruining a perfectly good marriage by working hard to provide for their wives and children?  Fortunately, some do:

‘I was working 60 or 70-hour weeks in charge of commercial sales for a large firm,’
‘I simply wasn’t there while our three children were growing up, and my wife was resentful. She said it takes two to make a marriage and that I was not pulling my weight. I felt that I was doing my bit by supporting the family financially.

Unfortunately he didn’t learn this in time to save his marriage.  Now that he is retired and divorced he focuses on his passion, customizing and repairing electric guitars.  If only he had made this change decades ago instead of frittering his time away in sales, he could have avoided his well deserved punishment:

‘I miss my children very much. I miss being part of a family,’
‘I find myself sitting and crying at romantic old films on the television. When an elderly couple walks hand-in-hand into the sunset, I think: “That’s not going to happen to me,” and, if I’m honest, it’s a profound regret.’

See Also:  Divorcée Retirement

This entry was posted in Ageing Feminists, Choice Addiction, Daily Mail, Divorce, Grey Divorce, Post Marital Spinsterhood, selling divorce. Bookmark the permalink.

89 Responses to Boring loyal dudes

  1. Leonidas says:

    The breathless Daily Mail headline asks: The 40-year itch: Divorce is falling in every age group except the over-60s – so why ARE so many couples splitting after a lifetime together?

    Because they’re Baby Boomers – the generation of the Sexual Divorce Revolution

  2. detinennui32 says:

    Those terrible, selfish men. Working hard to take care of their wives in their old age. Being quiet and taciturn at home. Wanting to rest after their retirements.

    Oh, the inhumanity!

  3. Brendan says:

    I think it’s that retirement is one of those “life changing events” that brings into focus relationship problems.

    I would say that the three critical times when divorces tend to happen are (1) before ten years in when the kids are young (with the problems coming to the surface after the life-changing event of having kids),(2) when the kids are grown and gone and you have an empty nest and (3) upon retirement. Each of these times represents a significant change to the relationship between the spouses due to life circumstances. As a result, it puts pressure on the relationship. That kind of pressure can, if there are already resentments or other unhappiness in the relationship, lead one or the other person to want to end the relationship at that point, because the only other option is to work through the issues and adapt to the change — the key point being that the person may not want to expend the energy to work through the issues, because they are just not happy enough, or have enough resentments, that the other option looks better to them.

    Yes, it’s more often women than men who do this, but that’s because women are much less happy with the status quo in *general* than men are — men expect and want/desire less from their relationships than women do, whereas women expect and want more, and so are more often disappointed, unhappy and resentful. Men are more stoic, in general, and will tend to muddle through when women will tend to bring things to a head and bolt.

  4. TarHeelDude says:

    That proves without a doubt that both partners have to work on the relationship despite how wrapped up with kids they get. Communication, Communication, Communication!!!!! This in no way excuses these women from casting aside their marriages like refuse. Some men become a distant second priority once kids come into the picture. I know this first hand after experiencing it. I believe they will have to answer, in this life or the next, for the pain and anguish they cause their husbands. Shame on the children too.

  5. uncleFred says:

    @TarHeelDude
    Communication is only helpful if they find they actually like the other person and are willing to “work on the relationship.” Most of the women described here would have dumped their husband anyway, or perhaps even sooner.

    I suppose one possibility rising from a focus on communication might have been that the men realized what was coming and taken steps to prepare for it.

  6. ElectricAngel says:

    Not for nothing, but this also shows what a scam “retirement” is. The idea that you can simply cease working (for a man) is absurd. The bigger problem, as Brendan points out, is that the women are “retired” when their children leave.

    The final collapse of Social Security in the US, and pension schemes overseas, will at least re-establish the primacy of the non-nuclear family. Parents will need to invest time and money in their children so that those children will be successful enough to directly support them in old age. The elderly will need to provide the low-energy help needed around the house, like child care, cementing together the generations. It need not be a catastrophe, as unearned income (expecially for women) has proven to be at every level of society.

  7. Don’t.get.me.started.

    I still love the tag line on the first photo of the Divorcee Retirement post, and tickled you revisited it – so delightfully tragic.

    I don’t know what to tell ya – women are nutty and our estrogen besotted brains go fuzzy. To be fair, I still don’t think it’s very well understood that there are some serious teenage-crazies that visit even the best intentioned middle-aged women (I cannot believe what I hear myself say sometimes) and that the traditional sense of community that would ordinarily protect both husband and wife in that phase has been removed in favor of big (ineffective) pharma and drum circles, and what husband would naturally do because he’s loyal, to protect them both, is now viewed as him controooooling her. Add to that a little dose of feminism, the contagious nature of divorce (which many of their friends are likely doing), and the notion that happiness = holiness that haunts many of our churches, kicking loyal boring dude to the curb and keeping his children and all his money seems to be sanctioned by all legitimate authority. We’ve normalized her self-destructiveness and made her High Priestess of Crazy-Town. It’s really too bad – crazy lady has intimidated her very loving and steady hubster, and convinced him that if he interferes in her fits that he’s abusing her by suppressing her, meanwhile her life is likely to suck. I thought we were supposed to be compassionate toward the mentally impaired by not allowing them to harm themselves? Wha happen?

    (thanks for the linkage, friend)

  8. namae nanka says:

    Communication

    Nagging

  9. You go aging martyr girl!
    *snort*

  10. Heathcliff says:

    The truth is that a man without a strong identity is unattractive to women. Career is a very important part of what defines a man and this is even more true as he ages. It’s tough to carry a cad or badboy persona into your 60s or 70s. You’ll notice that the women complain that the man was never around but don’t actually dump him until he retires. I would say that communication has very little to do with it. If anything, the women should have communicated that seeing their husbands sitting on the couch watching Opara was unsettling to them. I doubt very much that they understood the root of their own dissatisfaction.

  11. Lavazza says:

    Brendan: “I would say that the three critical times when divorces tend to happen are (1) before ten years in when the kids are young (with the problems coming to the surface after the life-changing event of having kids),(2) when the kids are grown and gone and you have an empty nest and (3) upon retirement.”

    Another way to see it is that these are points when the male investment is done and there is not much more male investment in the relationship/family to wait for (and he is hoping for more of her investment and/or the possibility to direct more resources to himself, for example by working less and/or investing time and money into stuff he has neglected for himself) and/or points when it is time for the woman to step up in her investment in the relationship/family (for example by working more and/or giving more love and attention to the man instead of the children).

    I would set number 1 at the time when the youngest kid is around 4-6, though. When the kids are getting easier to take care of.

    Male investment seems to be earlier than female investment. I think there is a economic term for it.

  12. Heathcliff says:

    I know few men of retirement age that could serve as strong roll models to younger men. When I think of characters in popular culture of that age that I might view as roll models I only come up with villians, Charles Whidmore from Lost, the Jeff Bridges character in Iron Man, various gangster characters. Since strong men are a threat then only villains can be portrayed as strong ambitious men.

  13. Rhen says:

    “working 60-70 hour weeks in charge of commercial sales..wife was resentful”

    So what if he’d chosen some less-stressful, less-time-consuming but less lucrative and lower-status career? Think his wife would have been happy, or might she have been resentful about THAT?

  14. Stephenie Rowling says:

    @Rhen

    I agree an ungrateful bitch, will look for a way to validate her choice to leave no matter what. If the husband works a lot he is a workaholic, but if he works to little he is lazy and a bad provider. This women just had a different time-frame to leave. But then I have no idea what is worst leaving the marriage when the husband is in his 40 so he might find another woman or at least a string of women or in his 60’s when he will be too old and not motivated enough to look?
    Of course the worst is leaving no matter what but still.
    Also I didn’t saw anything this women did that they couldn’t had done staying married. Traveling more and all that can be done while the husband does something else that entertain himself, IMO. Is like they wanted the “empowered divorcee” batch to show proudly around while they “found themselves”.
    Is divorce a source of pride for women nowadays?

  15. Leonidas says:

    While I think many of the other comments are also accurate, I stand by my Baby Boomer thesis. Their divorce rates have always been higher than any other generation, and the statistic has followed them as they’ve moved through every age group. In other words, when the Boomers were in their 30s, 30-somethings had the highest divorce rates. When they were in their 40s, it was 40-somethings; 50s, 50-somethings; and now that they’re in their 60s, it’s 60-somethings with the highest divorce rates.

    The only thing surprising is that this new statistic is actually a surprise to anybody.

    [D: This seems plausible. However, I’ve never been able to find any stats which show an uptick in divorce late in life. Until/unless I do, I’ll assume this is more about selling divorce than explaining an actual phenomenon.]

  16. Eric says:

    Wow. So now, after being a ‘boring nice guy’; a ‘creepy older dude’; a ‘middle-aged loser’; and a ‘male pig’ generally; if I’d gotten married, I could have been a ‘boring loyal dude’ too. See what all of us MRAs are missing out on—all the wonderful experiences of the US relationship scene?

    Actually, I think most MGTOWs could win more men to their cause if they’d simply print articles like these and let the women speak for themselves. It’s surprising how fast men lose interest in American women once they realize what these bitches really think of us.

    Memorable relation: A few days ago, being a ‘boring nice guy’, I worked late on a project because it had a deadline. Since I was tired and hungry because this involved (gasp!) physical labor—I stopped at a McDonalds on the way home. About two tables away was a stunningly cute Amerobitch with a cute kid, about 2 years old.

    I almost didn’t even notice that an altercation was going on in the background until a piece of male street-vermin came striding over to her table and grabbed the kid out of the stroller. “come on!’ he shouted. ‘We’re getting the f–k outta here! I new we shouldn’t of come to this place!’ He then turned, shaking his fists and making obscene gestures at the manager and basically screeched like a baboon, punctuated with occasional human words, most of them profane. The poor kid protested, ‘but Daddy, I wanted to…’ The Proud Papa held the kid up to show the customers how brutal the establsihment was for making a poor kid cry, and, tucking it under his arm like a loaf of bread and grabbing the stroller he stormed to the door. Oh yes, he remembered his wife: ‘Well come on, bitch, don’t just sit there!’ And she dutifully obeyed. I heard the manager mention that Prince Charming had been banned from there previously because of his behavior, which—to anyone familiar with the average clientele in a Downtown Seattle McDonald’s—really must have taken some serious effort on his part.

    Obviously another specimen of the strong, intelligent Alpha type who won the woman of his dreams and marital bliss with his masculine aura of confidence and stability LOL.

    Really, what incidents like these and attitudes like those expressed in the article reflect is the utter contempt women in our culture have for anything remotely resembling masculinity. This garbage about ‘boredom’ is just another Shaming Tactic, designed to degrade really decent men and make them feel guilty and inferior. Taking up with ‘exciting’ bozos like the one I descibed is putting the shaming into positive action. Women take up with idiots like these as another way of depreciating worthy men. Since women in our culture are presumed to have ‘all the power in relationships’ this was her way of saying to all men: “I think this rat bastard I’m doing is worthier than any of you.”

    If men don’t want to end up as ‘boring loyal dudes’ they need to avoid the women who think of them that way in the first place.

  17. Lisa says:

    I agree with leonides.

  18. Adonis says:

    And Western Women is wondering why male investment is at an ALL-TIME-RECORD LOW…

    @Eric you are money, all you have to do is let the women speak, and they will look like COMPLETE A$$e$…

    But I’m just glad as a young 23 year-old man I can make the adjustments…

    Thank You & Goodnight

    P.S. Dalrock comes off REALLY objective… with a sprinkle of sarcasm

  19. jordan says:

    wow! do women make the case for their disenfranchisement or what?!

  20. Anonymous says:

    The heck with Men; they work too much and earn too little for Women! Government should take Men’s money and redistribute it to Women so Women can have sex with hot studs all day and not have to work! It’s social justice! (Ask these women if they’d like to see that… )

  21. Lily says:

    This is a bit like my guy’s parents divorce. It’s been quite a while. Neither are remarried but both are happy in their own ways. Very different lifestyles. They are good friends but they drive each other mad after a few days. They’ve just been staying with us so it’s top of my mind.

    They are ok financially. Neither is rich but they both say they have more disposable income than they have had before (linked to age rather than split up). I suppose (keeping promises and/or Christianity aside) it is arguably better if the parents had stayed together either reigniting their relationship or living together but pretty separate lives (which plenty of that generation seem to do, e.g. my parents, whilst my grandparents at 90 are blissfully happy together) but given how long people live these days, I’m not sure how it would be doing anyone any favours if his parents had lived together another 30+ years for the sake of it.

  22. Lily says:

    Heathcliff, some very good points.
    Tbh, a lot of women are also moaning minnies. I was just reading in the Daily Mail about a 60+ widowed woman who had complaining about no men being available. Of course this wasn’t true and she then got 100 dates to go on. She went on 5 and she moaned about all of them.
    One of them was his house was masculine in decor and he had hobbies like race cars. *raises eyebrows*. Seriously, he sounds fine to me. Better a man with hobbies than someone who doesn’t have any (and there are plenty of them around..). Anyway I like race cars.

    [D: I assume this is the article you were thinking of. Pretty funny. She couldn’t find one good man out of 100 (she only dated 5, but had 100 responses which she weeded down).]

  23. uncleFred says:

    @Heathcliff
    “I know few men of retirement age that could serve as strong roll models to younger men.”

    This comment made me so very sad, for I know many. Almost with out pause I can think of more than a dozen. Give me a day and I’m sure I can triple that number, even as I write this their names roll across my consciousness. That said I see your point; When I was a young man I could have named you at least 2-3 dozen off the top of my head, strong male role models were everywhere.

  24. Dalrock says:

    By the way, that Liz Hodgkins from the Daily Mail article is very interesting. It appears that in 1986 she wrote a book touting the benefits of not having sex, and how happy this makes people. Then a few years later she and her husband divorced. A few more years later she wrote a book about how it is best to remain single. Then she met (but apparently never married) John Sandilands, who passed away in 2004. In 2009 she wrote an article in the Daily Mail about how since she spent 12K pounds on plastic surgery she gets hit on all the time. Then she wrote a post on how fun it was to be a single woman over 50. Then she wrote a post about how all men in her age bracket are either boring or uninterested in her.

  25. Lily says:

    lol Dalrock I had not heard of her befoe they do find them. It is like Liz Jones. I know when you first posted here about her some people assumed she must have ridden the carousel but she didn’t have sex with anyone till she was over 30 (which is quite unusual for the UK, let alone for a ‘feminist’ or a ‘carouseler and then hardly had sex again till her very odd marriage) but she does ham it up for attention. She seems happier post therapy and now she’s going out with this ‘pop star’ (who I’m informed by a friend who works at the DM is Jim Kerr, albeit she works on the financial pages so may not have it right). Though I have to say any person (female or male) who makes their living by writing about their lives frankly must be a bit crazy.

    I don’t think anything of Liz Hodgkinson not being married to John Sandilands, looks like they were together for 13+ years and it’s arguable how important legal marriage is in a second ‘marriage’. I understand there is possibly a cultural thing. And I do think influenced by the change in law here in the late 90s on men having paternity rights without being married (though clearly some will think that’s a good thing and some bad). The leader of the opposition only just got married to the mother of his 2 children (and nobody except very conservative older folk would have though anything of it), I suppose that wouldn’t be the case in the USA with politicians at least.

    Personally, I’d like to see the French style civic unions here. Or at least some sort of way to get married where you can set your own parameters and have them stuck to. Just my opinion.

  26. Lily says:

    100 men lol.

  27. Dalrock says:

    @Lily

    I don’t think anything of Liz Hodgkinson not being married to John Sandilands, looks like they were together for 13+ years and it’s arguable how important legal marriage is in a second ‘marriage’.

    I only pointed it out because her story seems to change. In this article she claimed to be a divorcée. Her bio references her husband whom she divorced and then her “partner” John Sandilands who passed away. But in this article as well as this one she references her husband dying.

  28. demirogue says:

    “This women just had a different time-frame to leave. But then I have no idea what is worst leaving the marriage when the husband is in his 40 so he might find another woman or at least a string of women or in his 60′s when he will be too old and not motivated enough to look?”

    And just what in the hell makes any woman think a guy who is in his 40’s has the motivation to even want to reach out to women anymore? The way you make it sound a man isn’t a man unless he is with a woman. But did you or any other person consider that today’s women for the most part just aren’t worth it? Just look at what they offer.

    Keep posting these articles and it won’t be men in their 40’s you’ll have to worry about. It’ll be men in their 30’s and eventually their 20’s that will vanish off the dating scene.

  29. John says:

    If she had 100 men interested in her, she must have been an exceptionally good looking woman with a nice body. However, the senior dating sites I belong to consist of approx. 80% overweight women and who are very matronly in appearance. In one of the sixties chatrooms I frequently visit, the ratio of men to women is generally 1:3. Many of the heavy women complain that they never get any interest whatsoever. The ones who are heavy but have pretty faces get more attention, while the slim pretty ones get a lot of hits from guys of all ages. However, a lot of these guys are just looking for sex, which offends both the good looking and the not so good looking.

    I am unsure who initiated the divorces among couples of this age bracket. However, if it is predominanly women, they don’t have much to look forward to socially, unless they are exceptionally good looking. And you can tell from their conversations how very lonely they are. If they got divorced after being with a boring man and waiting till the kids have grown expecting Mister Excitement to take his place, they are in for a rude awakening.

  30. J says:

    By the way, that Liz Hodgkins from the Daily Mail article is very interesting. It appears that in 1986 she wrote a book touting the benefits of not having sex, and how happy this makes people….Then she wrote a post about how all men in her age bracket are either boring or uninterested in her.

    Kinda makes you wonder why anyone would take anything they read in the Daily Mail seriously. They just print the bullsh*t du jour.

  31. Stephenie Rowling says:

    “And just what in the hell makes any woman think a guy who is in his 40′s has the motivation to even want to reach out to women anymore?”

    I was assuming that a guy might want to find a woman that is worth it, after an ungrateful bitch leaves him, as long as he is young enough to do it. I never implied that a man is not a man without a woman.
    I still think that some women are actually good for LTR and that a man that has been hurt and wants to find someone to grow old with, should get the chance to do so. Of course I also admit that this women are rare.

  32. demirogue says:

    Yes they are rare.

    Whatever theories abound out in internet land as to keep women happy, the underlying issues that point to women as being fundamentally flawed in great numbers has to be brought up. Look I’m 40, house is paid for and you’d think the next step in my life would be to settle down, right? But modern women scare the hell out of me because they literally are out of control. And what’s worse is that they are encouraged to act that way with not only the culture, but the laws as well.

    Focus your attention to the guy that just got his dick cut off and the humor those women on CBS found in it. That’s your modern woman right there. I absolutely want nothing to do with them.

  33. Twenty says:

    1.) No fool like an old fool. The immaturity and anti-wisdom on display in that article is truly appalling. You’d think people would learn something over 50, 60, or 70 years, but I guess not.

    2.) I wonder if the folks involved in putting that piece together realize that it’s first and foremost an argument to men to avoid Western marriage. And a powerful one, at that.

    Demirogue nails it just up the page:

    [M]odern women … literally are out of control. And what’s worse is that they are encouraged to act that way with not only the culture, but the laws as well.

  34. Stephenie Rowling says:

    “Focus your attention to the guy that just got his dick cut off and the humor those women on CBS found in it. That’s your modern woman right there. I absolutely want nothing to do with them.”

    Interestingly enough I had to deal with a crazy “that is so funny” one this weekend. She actually wanted us the cheer on this event. Gladly most women at the party, were horrified of the idea and many say that no matter what a man does he didn’t deserved that so she had to shut up about it a few minutes after introducing the “happy subject”. So at least there is hope that, THAT level of crazy doesn’t exist in large numbers. But I was indeed appalled that anyone would read this story and find any humor on it, frankly if a jealous men cut his wife clits or boobs no one would be laughing at this.

    I don’t blame you for not wanting to settle down. You work hard to get your home and your life in order so you have the right to enjoy it in any way you see fit. My comment was in the lines of someone who thinks this women are idiots leaving their husbands and the best revenge is to have a good life. If they manage to find other women that will appreciate them, while their wives realize what they miss and grow older and alone, is a good “TAKE THAT! for them. Of course if the better life for you is to be single, more power to you.🙂

  35. greyghost says:

    Well Dalrock for a guy that is blogging for marriage you sure have a knack for finding reasons for MGTOW. This article says I’m in big trouble because I am one responsible dude. I handle my business so I guess ameribitch won’t being staying around much longer.

  36. Athlone McGinnis says:

    Incentives drive behavior.

    What incentive does a man have to get married in this day and age? What does an average British/American woman bring to the table in a marriage that she cannot bring outside of it?

    I’m still waiting for a good answer to this justifying marriage for any man in the anglosphere(particularly the US and UK), and I just can’t see one in the wake of all of these factors:

    -High divorce rate driven by female initiative(even without a hint of spousal abuse from him).
    -Punitive alimony and family law working against him after said divorce kicks in.
    -Even if he is loyal and slaves away for her, he cannot seem to reasonably expect the same of her. She can throw said decades of partnership away on a whim, receive sympathy from larger society, and get paid for it with his hard earned money.
    -I haven’t even mentioned the other peripheral issues(man sacrificing the sexual variety they crave more than women, woman cutting off sexual access/plumping up/chopping hair off while he can do nothing about it, poisoning his children against him after divorce, etc)

    The costs appear vastly disproportionate to the benefits. What positive does he get in return for dealing with all of this?

  37. jack says:

    That story is interesting. And it is true – many “stunningly cute amerobitches” are found in the company of the worst men.

    I do believe that God will someday judge them for giving themselves to those kind of men. For me, I find that I feel little need to show much respect to women anymore.

    American women are a foul swamp of the worst human behavior.

  38. My Name Is Jim says:

    The behavior of feminists does seem to indicate now that they think a woman relying on a man for anything other than sex, and perhaps affection and love, is patriarchy and to be negatively judged. All this stuff about him being loyal, providing this or that, being a father to his biological children, etc. by definition falls under patriarchy then. No matter how well he does it they will always look down on it. You can’t miss their point fast enough to catch up with their dissatisfaction. They will label him a loser if he can’t provide, boring if he’s not a loser, or creepy if he’s not boring nor a loser, or whatever they have to for each individual man to cast doubt on him in the eyes of the woman who is married to him or considering it. Throw labels at the wall and then push whatever sticks. If you’re an alpha, you can do no wrong and the rules don’t apply to you. If you’re a beta, there’s no way to win.

    But women still need the things that beta men have given them up to now, so they need to create a screen to insulate themselves from the men providing, a third party so they don’t let any one man get too close unless he is a hot alpha. (Anyone else is “creepy.”) The only third party I’ve seen them look to is of course the government, because what they are trying is against human nature and can only be achieved through force. So they are bringing up old ideas from the past that never worked on a broad scale: statism, socialism, collectivism.

    Of course, feminists will fail at this in the long term. The basic model of family: one man, one woman, and the biological children thereof … is very powerful and has survived thousands of years of challenges like this. There’s nothing new under the sun about any of what they are trying to unseat it. The only question is, will America survive. If America adopts their agenda, it will die out from the resulting stagnation and societies that respect family and fatherhood will move into the power vaccuum.

    What it boils down to when I think about it, is fear of commitment to men. If you accept family as your foremost social unit, this commitment to something higher than your own hormonal desires is just part of maturing. So is feminism setting women free, or is it just encouraging them to lifelong immaturity. Well history is written by the winners. So in the end our descendants will see it as the latter.

  39. Thag Jones says:

    The problem is communication, too much communication. Who knows, maybe it’s another case of women talking too much – learn to leave the poor guy alone sometimes! I love how there is no mention of the husband just wanting a bit of peace and quiet after years of working his arse off for his family. Maybe it’s because I’m an introvert myself but I don’t see what’s with all these people who want to do something EXCITING like they’re little kids who want to go to an amusement park. I don’t get it. I’m happy to just go on a hike or a stroll somewhere nice and not have to talk too much.

    I would set number 1 at the time when the youngest kid is around 4-6, though. When the kids are getting easier to take care of.

    I dunno, I find a newborn in some ways a lot easier than a 5-year-old! Put ’em in a sling and off you go! A 5-year-old is running loose and grabbing things and wanting this or that…

  40. jz says:

    “Communication”… depends how you define it. Good marriage glue is the gut wrenchingly honest messages that you’d rather avoid.

  41. buck says:

    RE: Thag Jones

    You have hit on something, what with your comment on entartaining them all the time. I have neices who are media age (12-18) and they require constant 30 second sound bite bombardment. They bore easily and complain constantly. I shudder at the thought of some poor guy trying to “entertain” them. I have predictions on how many failed marriages they will have etc. Shame on their parents for allowing this too!!!
    God says he speaks in a still small voice. I know the loud, obnoxious, blaring world we live in is by design…keep the masses fat, dumb and entertained…truly an evil plot.

  42. Lavazza says:

    Thag: Of course it depends of the sex and the temperament of the kids, their situation is school and so on. But at some time the pressure of parenting gets easier to bear and the parents have more free time to work more, spend more time together or more time on themselves, and less help is needed with the kids. That time is normally not with the first child, or when the youngest child is a toddler.

    From what I have seen when fathers divorce mothers it is usually during pregnancy or the toddler age.

  43. detinennui32 says:

    Jim above has hit on something. The meme making the rounds in the femosphere in the past week is that shy men are “creepy”.

    Handy feminist glossary:

    A “boring guy”: A man who works his arse off for his family and is too tired to do anything else after providing so much for her.

    A “loser”: 1. A man who does not earn enough to allow his woman to retire from the work force.
    2. A man who is divorced or has a track record of breakups.

    A “creep”: 1. An unattractive man. 2. a shy man. 3. A socially awkward man.

    If you’re a hot alpha, you get all the women.
    If you’re a beta, you lose, Every time.

  44. sean says:

    This is a sad ending to what could have been a glorious time. I don’t understand why these women couldn’t have reinvented themselves while staying married? What is the difference between coming home to an empty home and coming home to a silent man? Sometimes men just want a breather. My own father went through a time of depression and quiet after having did hard manual work for over thirty years. It takes time to find a new identity and meaning in life after being so focused on being responsible for others for so long. I know the transition is hard on both parties but if you stick through it, I’ve observed most couples come out with new identities and roles and are still happy together. OT: I’ve found a lot of boomers are just as dumb as twenty year olds? Why is this group not growing in wisdom with age?

  45. Dan in Philly says:

    You know, I agree with most of your points in this article, but I’ve seen what retirement can do for a couple not prepared for it. It is really, really difficult for both the man and the woman.

    Assuming the woman is a SAHM, she is losing a lot of autonomy when her husband retires. It’s not suprising that she may feel she’s lost any idea of who she is. The wife may be miserable in divorce, but she may also be miserable upon her husband’s retirement. She has had a certain life for decades, and now it has been taken away, sometimes without any discussion of her needs or wants about the matter. Even worse, she may have been told her life would be one way upon returement, only for it to turn out quite differetly due to nothing more than a capricious decision by the husband. I have seen this myself. I certainly agree with your point that selling divorce is not a good answer, but let’s not lose sight of the larger point that a retiring man will often totally upset the life of his wife upon retirement. He should consider this when planning for it.

    She should also do this, of course, but as a man I’m more interested in learning how to avoid harming my wife than what she can do for me. I’m years away from retirement, and I truly don’t ever play to stop working as long as I’m able to work, but I do plan to cut down in the future. I will need to be prepared to re-adjust my life so wifey and I can learn how to live together once we have all the time to spend with each other.

  46. My Name Is Jim says:

    Detinennui, I don’t read much of the femosphere directly, so the only incident I know of that’s happened lately to spark such a meme is the elevator incident.

    Now, let’s look at women like that. They’re full of negative thoughts and mental judgments about the way I live my life. (Heterosexual white man with wife and kids, not polyamorous, I make most of the income and my wife works part time, any number of things they’re always beating up on.) I can hardly even approach one and talk to her without constantly being on my guard about what I say, my gestures, etc. If I were single, and if I found one of these leftist feminists attractive, I would have to be very skilled at attraction and comfort building because nothing short of alpha mastery is sufficient. If I tried to escalate, I would have to be impeccable in timing, wording, and gesture, touch just the right way at the very best moment, and if I make a tenth of a slipup it’s slap a creepy label on me and out me to all her friends to laugh at.

    What’s the word for that, how do women like that make me feel? The word is … wait for it … creepy! I think these women are TOTALLY creepy, because I can never relax around them. Don’t you find that creepy, that constantly having to think of what they’re going to judge you about next?

    Maturity is more than this, it’s an implied mutual respect between adults, it’s not over-reacting against each other, not plotting against each other, accepting differences, it’s having been in situations before and knowing how to say yes or no gracefully. Calling someone creepy for feeling or acting a little awkward about a situation that makes them nervous … it’s just immature.

  47. J says:

    @detinennui32

    Loved your Summer post!

  48. J says:

    Focus your attention to the guy that just got his dick cut off and the humor those women on CBS found in it. That’s your modern woman right there.

    Is it really “your modern woman”? Out of curiosity, I googled incidences of penis mutilation and, over the last thirty years, I could only find three incidences in America–Lorena Bobbitt (who came from Uruguay), Catherine Kieu Becker (mail order bride??) and a woman in Alaska named Kim Tran. Not one Amerishank, NAM landwhale, Jewish Marxist feminist lesbo, or Anglo-sphere entitled princess in the bunch–just those traditional, 3rd world, slender, submissive housewife types so highly touted in some sections of the manosphere.

    A piece of advise: Unless you want to have your penis served as dinner by your wife to your mistress, stay out of the Phillipines. It appears to be somewhat of a local custom.

  49. J says:

    I don’t know what to tell ya – women are nutty and our estrogen besotted brains go fuzzy.

    By fuzzy thinking, I assume you mean applying something you read in Britain’s equivalent of the National Enquirer to real life and using it to make judgments about other women.

  50. Rhen says:

    One thing to consider is the role of STATUS in all of this. When a woman marries, it almost always improves her status among her circle of friends and acquaintances…in many cases, this status increase is a major reason for getting married in the first place. But 20 years later, no status is likely to accrue to her by virtue of STAYING married to that same man**unless she is in a close-knit traditional community OR the man has very high and still-increasing status. But the effort level required on his part to not only maintain but continuously his status will open him to accusations of workaholism by his wife.

    When men get married, they are usually looking for companionship and a refuge from the power-struggles of the workday world. But for many women, marriage appears to be the primary arena in which they intend power struggles to take place.

  51. Rhen says:

    Meant to say “the effort level required on his part to not only maintain but continuously INCREASE his status will open him to accusations of workaholism by his wife”

  52. Eric says:

    Anon7/18:
    I think the women would go for all your suggestions except for the ‘hot stud’ part. From my experience with American women, the men they prefer are barely one step removed from gorillas. Maybe the government should relax its import restrictions on primates; then women wouldn’t need us men at all; except to finance their ‘adventures’ LOL

  53. Eric says:

    J:
    The problem is that those man-haters from the Third World that you mentioned haven’t had the priviledge of a feminist upbringing. The ‘modern woman’ knows how to emasculate men without such crudities as weapons. They have the courts, the schools, and the media to give impetus to their sadistic impulses.

  54. Eric says:

    detinennui32:
    Basically, if a man has an IQ above room temperature, bathes daily, and is able to hold productive employment, he’s considered ‘creepy’ and a ‘loser’ by most women. You don’t need to be a hot, intelligent, Alpha stud to excite them; you just need to be a complete idiot who makes them feel superior by contrast.

  55. slwerner says:

    Rhen – ”One thing to consider is the role of STATUS in all of this. When a woman marries, it almost always improves her status among her circle of friends and acquaintances…in many cases, this status increase is a major reason for getting married in the first place. But 20 years later, no status is likely to accrue to her by virtue of STAYING married to that same man…”

    Quite true.

    And, it can be even worse for a woman if her husbands status falls off a bit by, say, losing a political election:

    ”…the case is a tale of family ambition turned sour after Mr Honore failed to become the town’s mayor…

    But, on the plus side, she wasn’t planning to put him through the trouble of a divorce.

  56. demirogue says:

    I don’t really have words for this, so I’m just going to leave this here:

    http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1208401_MrClean4Hire_took_his_own_life_.html
    http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1208401_MrClean4Hire_took_his_own_life_.html/page=10

    I knew him through AR15.com as well. What was he banned for? The guy was one of the wisest and easiest people on there. Sad.

  57. Dalrock says:

    @J

    By fuzzy thinking, I assume you mean applying something you read in Britain’s equivalent of the National Enquirer to real life and using it to make judgments about other women.

    Per Wikipedia the Daily Mail is the second largest daily newspaper in the UK (the Sun is first). A much more accurate comparison would be the New York Post. Additionally, this kind of divorce sales story is common across respected magazines and newspapers in the US and the UK. It isn’t as if women won’t read very similar articles in the Atlantic, Salon, Slate, The Denver Post, etc. If the focus is on the UK, I can point out articles with a similar grey divorce cheer-leading tone in the The Times. But your framing of tabloid sources as not representing the messages to women is wrong at its core. Women are the target audience of gossipy media outlets. The mail is clearly targeting women, and has a very large readership. Oprah isn’t popular because she has a scientific bent.

  58. but she didn’t know she was marrying a criminal. I hereby find her husband Peter guilty of the crime of boringness, with added charges of pre-meditated industry and loyalty:”

    ahh this is a great post. i almost laughed my dick off.

    i read somewhere that stone age wiring gave women’s brains a 4 year feral mating cycle, that it would be the ammount of time necessary to rear a child and be back in shape enough to survive on her own. whatever that article was also said that it goes in 4 year cycles, meaning that the most common time a couple gets divorced is after 4 or 5 years, and then every multiple of 4/5ish has a higher incidence in marriage ending in divorce.

  59. terri says:

    The problem is communication, too much communication. Who knows, maybe it’s another case of women talking too much – learn to leave the poor guy alone sometimes!

    This is true, Thag. Of course, the kicker is that if a man expresses this, he’s branded insensitive and unworthy.

    Communication is good, if it’s really communication.

    I feel awful that these men have kept their vows and are being rewarded with knives in the back and bad-mouthing. Ugh!

  60. Uncle Elmer says:

    “just those traditional, 3rd world, slender, submissive housewife types so highly touted in some sections of the manosphere.”

    Thanks a lot, I was going to post a comment about the lovely Vietnamese woman I married when I was 50, and you had to warn me about penilcide. She is quite crazy when she gets angry, that’s a fact.

  61. J says:

    @Elmer

    I’m sure your wife is quite lovely and that your penis is safe.

  62. J says:

    But your framing of tabloid sources as not representing the messages to women is wrong at its core. Women are the target audience of gossipy media outlets. The mail is clearly targeting women, and has a very large readership. Oprah isn’t popular because she has a scientific bent

    The purpose of tabloid journalism and the Oprah show is to make money–either by appealing to some women or making others go “tsk, tsk.” They raise controversy and therefore ratings. I wouldn’t depend on them, the Atlantic, Salon, or Slate to provide factual representations of what real life women think. It’s like Holywood gossip. There are probably a handful of women wishing threy could live Lindsay Lohan’s life. The rest are just watching the freak show.

    [D: Your argument changes whenever I prove you wrong with facts. First it was that stories like this only run in obscure papers like the Enquirer. Once I proved that was nonsense you are trying to claim Oprah isn’t a powerful force in forming women’s opinions. You are hugely invested in the modern feminist culture, and will say anything to avoid acknowledging the truth.]

  63. Stephenie Rowling says:

    [D: Your argument changes whenever I prove you wrong with facts. First it was that stories like this only run in obscure papers like the Enquirer. Once I proved that was nonsense you are trying to claim Oprah isn’t a powerful force in forming women’s opinions. You are hugely invested in the modern feminist culture, and will say anything to avoid acknowledging the truth.]

    Mmm I wonder if J is Jess in HUS. This describes her to a T.

  64. Opus says:

    When I practised a lot of Family Law, I noticed something strange: that, those women coming to me for assistance in instituting their Divorce were (as with the women in the article) bad-tempered and demanding, with not a good word for their hapless (and usually only too decent) husbands. I also noticed that they were as unattractive physically as thery were mentally. I noticed something: those women on the receiving end of being divorced, (the minority, of course) were invarably good looking, slim and with attractive personalities. This difference was very noticable to me.

    I am reminded of this now, as the photographs of the women in the above article – and pictures taken on their wedding day, when women are always at their most attractive – reveal them to be, frankly, it has to be said, unattractive women. What did he see in her? – I was thinking, of the various grooms, as I looked at the photographs. Times were different then: young working-class men married young, partly from social pressure and expectation and partly from the possibility of Pussy – any Pussy. Not all changes in the last forty years have been always for the worst.

  65. krakonos says:

    @Opus
    My personal theory is that the women resented their husbands because they had never been hot alphas. Every day they looked at him it reminded them of their own low status.
    On the other hand when a man is alpha and/or good looking he has much more options when gets older. Alphas/good looking men were marrying attractive women, which are more likely to stay attractive (compared to unattractive by design).

  66. Gerhilda says:

    Opus says:
    “I noticed something: those women on the receiving end of being divorced, (the minority, of course) were invarably good looking, slim and with attractive personalities. This difference was very noticable to me.”

    This is interesting to me, Opus. What is your theory as to why attractive, fit women with good personalities were being divorced by their husbands?

  67. Rhen says:

    “reveal them to be unattractive women”

    To the extent that the unattractiveness was mainly weight-related, it could sometimes be a sign of poor self-discipline and impuse control, which of course would also cause other problems with the marriage

  68. Rhen says:

    Also, a man who married a woman who is unattractive and has a not-great personality might have done so because of his lack of success with other women. In which case he would likely be in a defensive position with regard to his wife, resulting in her becoming increasingly dominant, him being increasingly placating, and her becoming ever more frustrated and angry.

  69. Anonymous Reader says:

    Focus your attention to the guy that just got his dick cut off and the humor those women on CBS found in it. That’s your modern woman right there.

    J
    Is it really “your modern woman”? Out of curiosity, I googled incidences of penis mutilation and, over the last thirty years, I could only find three incidences in America–Lorena Bobbitt (who came from Uruguay), Catherine Kieu Becker (mail order bride??) and a woman in Alaska named Kim Tran.

    I believe that the comment was more in reference to the giggling women on a major US television network than to the woman who arguably attempted an act of murder. He’s pointing out how many women in the modern world find it funny when a woman engages in amateur penectomy. Women who all but certainly are aghast and horrified by any sort of physical crime committed against a woman…

    He’s pointing out how modern women seem to essentially hate men, and how they reveal this hatred in various ways, such as laughing and giggling about a genital mutilation.

    Question: do you find this action funny? If so, would you find an involuntary clitordectomy equally amusing?

  70. Opus says:

    @Gerhilda

    I have no idea why it is that attractive women seem to be the victims of Divorce. I can only report that I became aware that that seemed to be the case. It seemed to me that the more unattractive (in face and figure) the women were, the more unpleasant they were too, but the prettier ones with nice figures were not merely nicer but did not go in for Divorce. Among my clients who were on the receiving end was one woman mid-thirties who had been a fashion model, when younger.

    As I say I do not know the reason, but, it is easy to suppose two things:

    1. People who are attractrive have an easier time in life, and do not need to be so aggressive as a result of which they remain pleasant people, and effortlessly attract to themselves attractive men; men who to get a woman do not have to scrape the bottom of the barrell.

    2. Following from 1. Attractive men also have easier lives, and are frequently successful – indeed may satisfy the definition of an Alpha male, and as such may find that many women are attracted to them with inevitable consequences. A man always seems to be more attractive to women if he is married especially to an attractive woman, as that vouches for his desirability.

    I also agree with Krakanos and Rhen.

  71. Jack says:

    The only reason some men may decide to marry is to avoid his children from being called bastards by society. In order to achieve that, they are willing to take the 50% risk of losing his children, house and salary to the wife. Now, let’s say a man chooses not to take that option and decides to have his children out of wedlock. In that case, the man has an even higher risk of losing his children, house and salary to the woman, even if he attempts to circumvent that risk by not granting his surname to his children. Either way, the law punishes men and rewards women during a divorce or after a break up. So, in essence, men have to restrain their desire for reproduction in order to survive.

  72. Dalrock says:

    @Opus

    When I practised a lot of Family Law, I noticed something strange: that, those women coming to me for assistance in instituting their Divorce were (as with the women in the article) bad-tempered and demanding, with not a good word for their hapless (and usually only too decent) husbands. I also noticed that they were as unattractive physically as thery were mentally. I noticed something: those women on the receiving end of being divorced, (the minority, of course) were invarably good looking, slim and with attractive personalities. This difference was very noticable to me.

    This is interesting. I don’t have the number of data points you likely have, but my observation has been that frivolous divorcées in their 30s and 40s have a type of hardness to them. They look angry, bitchy, frustrated, basically like they have permanent PMS. They also seem to quite often hit the wall surprisingly hard shortly after divorce. I don’t know as many divorcées who had a husband dump them or cheat on them, but the few I know don’t fit your thin & pretty description but they also don’t have the hardness to them or hit the wall so spectacularly. My guess has always been that the frivolous ones suffered a great deal of cognitive dissonance when reality collided with their divorce fantasy which caused their unfortunate physical transformation.

  73. Dalrock says:

    @Dan in Philly

    I certainly agree with your point that selling divorce is not a good answer, but let’s not lose sight of the larger point that a retiring man will often totally upset the life of his wife upon retirement. He should consider this when planning for it.

    Good point. How to properly manage the transition is a far more productive conversation. However, I think this kind of transition will still be a challenge at first, even if you prepare for it. If both husband and wife start with the expectation that the marriage is permanent, they will be able to make it through the difficult period of adjustment and come out happier on the other side. This is what the science shows. Unfortunately, we have the media whispering in women’s ears that they should dump their husband the moment they feel uncomfortable, and that of course nothing is their fault, all his.

  74. Eric says:

    Dalrock:
    I don’t see why men don’t simply take women at their word instead of giving the benefit of the doubt. When women talk about ‘boring nice guys’; ‘creepy older dudes’ and ‘boring loyal dudes’, reflect on what such phrases mean: that they aren’t attracted to qualities like decent behavior, maturity, or fidelity. When they talk about ‘all men are pigs’ and that ‘women move the world’ and ‘have all the power in relationships’—it’s apparent that they’re not interested in a relationship where they can’t be domineering or otherwise superior to the man.

    As a collorary to the story I wrote above; last Mothers’ Day, I was also out on an errand and stopped in Chinatown for lunch. The restaurants were crowded; but I’ll bet that at least 1/3 of the families I saw had an American husband and a Chinese wife. None of those guys looked like wigged-out street vermin, and most of their wives were fairly attractive (considering that they had lots of well-behaved kids in tow!) But American women would rather go for the ‘exciting’ semi-simian males whose only civilized use is as food for gunpowder.

  75. Dan in Philly says:

    “Unfortunately, we have the media whispering in women’s ears that they should dump their husband the moment they feel uncomfortable, and that of course nothing is their fault, all his.”

    Dal, no arguments here. I like to take the posts you have and apply to my own life. I talk to wifey quite often about what we see other couples do and go through and introduce her to the ideas presented here. For example, her cousin was thinking about divorcing her hubby (you can imagine how very typical the story was, good but beta man, unattractive shrewish woman, blah blah blah). Anyway, I asked wifey what in the world her coz was thinking. Step by step I layed out the points you continually reinforce:
    1) The child they have will suffer
    2) she’ll have to make do with just as many expenses and half the money
    3) she’s quite unlikely to be able to land a man as good as her current one, while he will likely trade up

    So on and so forth. Wifey agreed with 100% of my points (indeed they are not arguments so much as obvious facts). Not only did she therefore disapprove of the divorce, she gained a new defense against such whispers as you constantly point out.

  76. slwerner says:

    Jack – ”let’s say a man chooses not to take that option and decides to have his children out of wedlock. In that case, the man has an even higher risk of losing his children, house and salary to the woman…”

    Not exactly, I’m afraid.

    By not being married to the mother of his children, he might have a slightly higher risk as far as custody goes.

    But, on the other hand, if he’s not married to her, and he owns the house, she won’t get it (if their not married, it can’t be considered “marital property”). Same with his retirement savings, bank account, etc. If there’s no marriage, there’s no marital property.

    And, there won’t be any alimony either.

    Yes, he would still be on the hook for child support, but the formula’s governing this don’t take into consideration marital status.

    The unmarried guy’s real worry is that she might be able to have their relationship declared a “Common-Law Marriage”, putting him in the same boat with guy’s that formally tied the knot.

    ”Either way, the law punishes men and rewards women during a divorce or after a break up.”

    But, you’re still right about that part. It’s just a matter of the degree to which he can be punished and her rewarded. Even in cases where the economic dynamics are reversed (the woman making more), she will still be “favored” over the man WRT custody (and the child support prize), and he’s much less likely to be granted alimony.

    There are numerous other ways in which men are disadvantaged regarding the distribution of the marital property. There are many things that the woman “owns” which seem consistently to not be subject to being considered part of the “marital property” pot. I’ve heard of guys having “their” things (golf clubs, fishing gear, electronic gadgets, and even lawnmowers) assigned a value as marital property, for which they would be liable for half of that value going towards their wives; while their wives were able to exempt jewelry, expensive handbags, shoe (collections), etc.

    On balance, men are simply going to fair worse than if their relative income-positions were exactly reversed.

    I’m actually married and pro-marriage, so it pains me to say that for (most) men, all else being equal, they will be in a better financial position if they are not married when it comes to a break-up.

  77. greyghost says:

    Dan in Philly your comments show the true worth of “game’ and the value of Dalrocks works. Women will never change and misandry is and will be a permanent part of the law. But men will learn as you have to understand what is going on and what action to take. Will not really change any thing but will lesson the overall misery.

  78. Athlone McGinnis says:

    @slwerner:

    “The unmarried guy’s real worry is that she might be able to have their relationship declared a “Common-Law Marriage”, putting him in the same boat with guy’s that formally tied the knot.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohabitation_agreement

    Get a good lawyer.

  79. J says:

    @AR

    Question: do you find this action funny?

    Answer: Oh my gosh, not at all. I’m not sure what in my post makes you ask that. I truly hope that there is something the doctors can do for that poor guy. And, since at this point the attack seems premediated, I really hope they throw the book at the wife. The point of my post was not that attack was funny; it was that the perpetrator was a member of a group that is among those heralded by many in the manosphere as superior to American women. I do find that ironic. I find it equally ironic–though not necessarily amusing–that in the clip from The View the ringleader of the “hilarity” is a very femininely dressed, heavily made-up Asian woman and that there are some conservative Christian women who join in the fun. The first one to say, “Hey, this is no laughing matter and a feminist!” is former “Roseanne” actress Sarah Gilbert, a Jewish lesbian mother who is most likely a lefty and a feminist to boot. I find it interesting that the usual “heroines” and “villianesses” have been reversed here and indicative of the idea that woman who have real agency are likely than to do crazy stuff than so-called “submissive, feminine” women.

    BTW, there is a post to you about John Gottman on the Divorce Retirement thread. I responded to yoiu late because I was out of town, but I didn’t forget about your question. I was hoping to discuss Gottman with you further.

  80. J says:

    Mmm I wonder if J is Jess in HUS.

    I’m not, Stephanie. I’m sure a lot of people in the world have J as an initial; it’s no conspiracy.

  81. Stephenie Rowling says:

    Never said it was, just that you have a similar POV and have the same letter as initial. So I was wondering.

  82. J says:

    Well, I think you’ve put two and two together to come up with five in this case. Isn’t Jess a twenty-something with an active love life? I’m a 50ish mother of two who has been married close to 25 years. If she is the gal I’m thinking of the similarities are pretty superficial.

  83. Dalrock says:

    I’m confident that J and Jess are two different people. In case anyone is interested, I referenced a comment by Jess at HUS on this post.

  84. Stephenie Rowling says:

    Actually Jess is married and she seems older than 25 and is also a mother so it looks like there are two Jess then.

  85. Kathy says:

    Give it a rest Sherlock!

  86. Pingback: The plankton generation | Dalrock

  87. hpx83 says:

    Dalrock : Everytime I read your blog (found it through Capt. Capitalism) I think two things instantly :

    1 ) I f***ing hate the (stereotypical) baby-boomers
    2 ) Why didn’t someone tell me that it was ok to hate feminists earlier?

    I am of course a stereotypical “nice boring guy”, who thinks that a traditional family in a traditional community would be pretty much all I need. The only problem with this is that society doesn’t think so. It thinks I should be some kind of mutant between “the player”, the “guy who agrees with feminists”, the “modern dad” (if I could give birth and breast-feed that would be super too!), and on top of that if I can just magically earn a gazillion bucks to make her life flashy that would be great also.

    There is only one group of men who can fit all these stereotypes, namely sociopaths. Having no conscience, they can probably pretend to be everything that every part of modern society demands of them. The only problem with marrying them is that if they get bored, they may decide to fill the basement with TNT and blow it all to smithereens (which is incidentally the impression I get from the depiction of the stereotypical US male in standard hollywood movies – that somewhere deep inside of him there is a cognitive dissonance that makes him just want to go berserk).

    Anyways, thanks for yet another expose of the state of society. I’ve found that laughing at it is the only thing that keeps me from going insane.

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