Yiayia wouldn’t approve

In Repackaging feminism as Christian wisdom I pointed out that our great grandmothers understood the nature of women’s temptation to sin.  What is fascinating is we know this, even though we have forgotten what our great grandmothers knew.  There is a kind of cultural doublethink involved here, where we generally deny that women are tempted by sexual sin (and deny that we are denying it) while we also mock people in the past for having failed to deny this.  This comes out in interesting ways, and one of them is in jokes about how our unenlightened ancestors used to have such backward views.

Yet while Yiayia would be horrified, as Opus explained compared to modern Europe the women in the US seem like prudes:

In Europe, in the summer, women can be found topless and bottomless but in America the females are all auditioning – Back to the Future style – for a role in a Doris Day flick by wearing one piece bathing-costumes – at least they were when I was Stateside.

But women going nude in Europe shows the fallacy of Walsh blaming women’s desire to bare as much as society will permit on the stores at the mall.  Surely the stores at the mall are quite happy to assist them in their race to nakedness, but there isn’t any money to be made selling birthday suits.  If anything, we would expect the shops at the mall to hold the line at high priced but maximally seductive bathing suits.  Perhaps it is the stores at the mall in capitalist America which are holding women back from adopting European women’s embrace of full nudity.  Likewise as another commenter mentioned, how can the stores at the mall be to blame for the nude and partially nude selfie phenomenon?

Director Stanton tells us that:

…women left to themselves will develop into good women, more responsible women, just naturally, for various reasons and we could talk about that.

But the truth is that women and older girls left to themselves will collectively push to continuously redefine decency down in their efforts to compete for sexual attention.  This is exactly what eleventh grader Olympia Nelson describes in her Op-ed at The Age on the selfie phenomenon:

How confident can you appear at being lascivious? How credible is your air of lewdness? A girl who is just a try-hard will lose credibility and become an outcast. So a lot depends on how much support you can get from other girls.

Note that the problem isn’t that Nelson and the other girls don’t know that they are beautiful.  The girls in the selfies already have confidence that they are beautiful; what they are trying to do is leverage that beauty to climb the social ladder.  To Nelson it is the patriarchy and not the shops at the mall which is to blame, because those dirty boys make her and the other girls do it.  If the boys only had more sophisticated taste in selfies she explains, the girls could compete for the boy’s attention in a more positive way.  This is undoubtedly true but overlooks women’s temptations entirely.  While she complains throughout the piece about the horrors of unrestricted selfie warfare, she closes by forcefully arguing that it would be wrong for parents to place limits on what young girls can post.  Assuming she gets her wish, we will continue to test Stanton’s foolish theory.

All of this of course would be mortifying to Yiayia, who would be troubled enough by what today would be considered a tame red dress:

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211 Responses to Yiayia wouldn’t approve

  1. Pingback: Yiayia wouldn’t approve | Manosphere.com

  2. Ha! Those are awesome. Especially in the first one, where the girls totally get it, realizing she has a point, and sort of start trying to cover themselves.

    As in the Matt Walsh thread: anyone who thinks the problem today is that girls aren’t confident enough and just need more pep talks so that they can virtuously refuse to play along with the patriarchy’s dirty games, really isn’t paying attention.

  3. myrealitie says:

    Yiayia is an old lady without any sexual capital – women in this position very often try to shame younger women as a way to reduce their power. I suspect that this phenomenon accounts for your observation and not the hypothesis that our great grandmothers were morally superior.

  4. patriarchal landmine says:

    tempted by sexual sin? maybe, if I believed women got any pleasure from it.

    tempted by hypergamy? absolutely.

  5. Roger says:

    @myrealitie
    Well, yes of course Yiayia no longer has any sexual capital, but in her younger days she no doubt did, and I would suggest that, generally speaking when our great grandmothers were young, they WERE morally superior to the vast majority of today’s shallow twits.

  6. “Yiayia is an old lady without any sexual capital – women in this position very often try to shame younger women as a way to reduce their power. I suspect that this phenomenon accounts for your observation and not the hypothesis that our great grandmothers were morally superior.”

    I don’t know – she sounds rather wise to me. I think she’s doing this out of concern, not to be some kind of sexual Pharisee who wants others to be as repressed as she is.

    Actually, in the latter case, she might be a radical Feminist.

  7. Dalrock says:

    @patriarchal landmine

    tempted by sexual sin? maybe, if I believed women got any pleasure from it.

    You are greatly mistaken in this. Women absolutely adore sexual attention. You are listening to their protestations (what they say) instead of watching what they do.

  8. deti says:

    myrealitie:

    Hi, Plain Jane.

  9. Dalrock says:

    @myrealitie

    Yiayia is an old lady without any sexual capital – women in this position very often try to shame younger women as a way to reduce their power. I suspect that this phenomenon accounts for your observation and not the hypothesis that our great grandmothers were morally superior.

    That can’t explain it, because elderly women in the US would be doing the same thing as Yiayia otherwise. Yiayia is different because she isn’t feminist like today’s crop of 70 something women. That is the whole joke; look how backwards Yiayia is. She doesn’t know she is oppressing women! Or at least, that is the marketer’s intent.

    Just look at the necklines elderly women in the US prefer. They tend to show even more cleavage than 19 year olds. The more their breasts sag the lower the swoop, because cleavage is pretty much all they have and they in fact now have more of it than they did when they were young. They say it is because they can’t stand the heat, but I don’t see elderly men walking around in public with necklines down to their belly buttons.

  10. jf12 says:

    What is most interesting to me is that an 11 yr old girl is already mentally poisoned in the exact same estrogenic way as more mature women: total contradictions in thinking, exact opposite of reality thinking, making observations but basing conclusions on feelings instead, etc. viz

    “a lot depends on how much support you can get from other girls.
    Girls zealously scroll down their Instagram or Facebook feeds. In Instagram, they might cleverly hashtag the most popular tags, such as #me, #selfie, #instacute to get an influx of ”likes” while they are on the most-recently tagged photos, then delete all the tags as though nothing’s happened.
    They’re manipulating their image into popularity. Girls spray their ”likes”. They comment: ”Wow, you’re a model”; ”Oh my god you babe”; ”F–k you’re hot”; ”You’re perfect”; ”Best body”.

    Girls fake flattery “

  11. jf12 says:

    @Dalrock, re: “Just look at the necklines elderly women in the US prefer. They tend to show even more cleavage than 19 year olds.”

    Your neck of the woods must be different than mine. It literally would be impossible for anyone to show more cleavage than most 19 yr olds in Houston.

  12. PokeSalad says:

    @deti

    Well played, sir

  13. Novaseeker says:

    Don’t mess with Yiayia! Seriously, in the Greek community, you don’t mess with Yiayia. People roll their eyes at Yiayia when she isn’t looking, but ultimately the disapproving eye of Yiayia actually *does* impact people’s behaviors to some degree. The same holds true for the Greeks northern neighbors in the form of of Babushka, or “Baba”. Same role, which they adopted from the Greeks when they were Christianized by the Greeks. Of course the ads are trying to make fun of this, but in families in the Greek and Russian Orthodox tradition, Yiayia/Baba has this kind of role. Some (many?) of the young girls in these families resent the crap out of that role, for the reasons you state, and some rebel against the whole thing and just march right out of the Orthodox Church, but the role remains nonetheless.

    As for Nelson, this is (an admittedly very young version of) the typical shaming by one sex of the other sex’s attraction vectors. Women shame men for liking T&A, the girls in the SI swimsuit edition, the pr0n girls and so on, and say men should be “more refined in their taste”. Men shame women for liking Biker McRockbanddrummer loser, unemployed yet socially dominant and good looking lout who lives with his parents, etc., and say women should be “more refined in their taste”. The reality is that both sexes have visceral triggers, and you can’t change them. An individual can choose to override them or, more commonly, de-prioritize them in favor of other factors (i.e., choosing a mate who is less “viscerally attractive” due to other desired traits), but en masse you’re not going to change what the other sex generally finds attractive in the opposite sex. It’s wired in.

    What IS different, of course, is that women are much more clued in as to what men are attracted to than vice versa. So women will, and do, compete with each other viciously to secure that attraction in rather obvious ways. Again, this isn’t the fault of the men — they’re attracted to what their sex is attracted to.

    This is also changing, slowly, as more men take up the red pill and begin to cultivate a more true understanding of what women are attracted to, in fact. As more men do that, the competition among them will increase. It’s already there, with men sexting selfies and so on, but it’s confined to a relatively small subset of men who are both clued in and attractive enough to pull it off. This number will increase in coming years, and it will become almost as bitchy as the competition among the girls is, currently.

  14. Dalrock says:

    Excellent insight Novaseeker

    What IS different, of course, is that women are much more clued in as to what men are attracted to than vice versa.

    The other difference is that men are much more clued in to what they are attracted to in the opposite sex than women are. Women aren’t just fooling men. The hamster’s first job is to convince the woman herself that she is really just seeking the love of a good man. “What is wrong with the men I keep attracting?”

    This is also changing, slowly, as more men take up the red pill and begin to cultivate a more true understanding of what women are attracted to, in fact. As more men do that, the competition among them will increase. It’s already there, with men sexting selfies and so on, but it’s confined to a relatively small subset of men who are both clued in and attractive enough to pull it off. This number will increase in coming years, and it will become almost as bitchy as the competition among the girls is, currently.

    I can imagine the blog posts from mothers of young boys trying to protect their sons from such a culture.

    Dear son, I beg you to believe me when I tell you that you are a sexy ass thug! Please, please, please always believe me when I tell you that you are sexy!

  15. Novaseeker says:

    Dear son, I beg you to believe me when I tell you that you are a sexy ass thug! Please, please, please always believe me when I tell you that you are sexy!

    HAHAHA!

  16. Dalrock says:

    @jf12

    Your neck of the woods must be different than mine. It literally would be impossible for anyone to show more cleavage than most 19 yr olds in Houston.

    Keep a tape measure handy and you will see what I mean. The elderly women have more cleavage to show, and they aren’t about to let this one “advantage” to their aging bodies go to waste. That none of us want to see it doesn’t seem to phase them.

  17. deti says:

    Nova:

    Great insight.

    “The reality is that both sexes have visceral triggers, and you can’t change them. An individual can choose to override them or, more commonly, de-prioritize them in favor of other factors (i.e., choosing a mate who is less “viscerally attractive” due to other desired traits), but en masse you’re not going to change what the other sex generally finds attractive in the opposite sex. It’s wired in.”

    I don’t think it is so much that people choose to override or deprioritize their visceral triggers. In the case of women, what happens is that she’s already had sex with several men who tripped all those visceral triggers and she couldn’t lock down any of them for marriage. Or, she did marry one of those men and the marriage didn’t work out.

    So she deliberately settles for less attractive men because those are the only ones she can lock down. She has to rationalize this somehow so she can live with herself, at least in the short term. She does this by hamsterbating herself into believing that she has “grown” and “matured” and “was never really attracted to those douchebags” and “those men weren’t for me”. She then hamsterbates herself further into believing that she was never really attracted to Rockbanddrummer; she was “restricted” all along and really in fact likes nebbish accountants and tax lawyers (who just happen to have six figure incomes).

    In the case of most men, they live with deprivation and rejection for so long that they condition themselves to ignore what they “want” in favor of “whatever they can get”.

  18. Novaseeker says:

    Deti –

    I agree that it plays out, sequentially, differently in men and women in terms of what motivates them to “settle” due to the way that the sequencing of attraction works in the SMP.

  19. jf12 says:

    @Dalrock, re: tape measure.

    As a matter of fact I do carry a tape measure most ofthe time, and at all times my handydandy multitool has a built-in ruler. There is in fact this one elder woman down the street … but she’s an exception. The young women tend to be practically naked when dressed down.

  20. Opus says:

    For clarification when I wrote Europe, I meant that part of the world cut-off from real civilisation by a twenty-mile wide channel of water, yet my girlfriend – who comes from Europe told me when she first came here, that all the young women in England dressed like the Prostitutes one could see plying their business on the outer streets of her home town. Even in offices, women sometimes wear clothes with slits and paint their nails a shade of pink that even a Motorway-Whore would think twice about.

    I had another girlfriend once, and this is what she told me (her Yiayia moment): she had picked up a guy on the beach the previous evening (this must have been somewhere in the north of England), and he had brought her back to the house where he lodged. In the morning they were eating their full English Breakfast (i.e. Corn Flakes from Battle Creek, Michigan) when he, having finished, got up and left for work. She stayed to finish her breakfast, but as soon as the guy had gone, the Landlady spoke directly to her and told her that she did not want a slut in her house and that she should get out. Notice this Yiayia was not blaming the man for casual consensual sex with a woman he had only met the previous evening but saw the woman as lowering female value and a traitor to the cause of woman. I, of course, was only too keen to lower it some more before I in turn also threw her out – can’t stand whoring sluts.

  21. jf12 says:

    re: “What IS different, of course, is that women are much more clued in as to what men are attracted to than vice versa.” + “The other difference is that men are much more clued in to what they are attracted to in the opposite sex than women are.”

    The bigger difference is that it is so very much easier for women to do what attracts men than for men to do what they need to attract women.

  22. Dalrock says:

    @jf12

    The bigger difference is that it is so very much easier for women to do what attracts men than for men to do what they need to attract women.

    Only because of the confusion we are discussing. Being cocky funny is far more fun than dieting.

  23. jf12 says:

    re: confusion. It’s even easier for a girl to lift her top off.

  24. Dalrock says:

    On the cleavage of elderly women jf12, you can’t see it because you (wisely) have blocked it out of your perception. We tend to do that with trauma. Make it a point to see it and you will see what I mean. Of course, you will forever hate me for it once you do.

  25. deti says:

    “On the cleavage of elderly women jf12, you can’t see it because you (wisely) have blocked it out of your perception. We tend to do that with trauma. Make it a point to see it and you will see what I mean.”

    This sort of cleavage display by elderly women is because feminism and our culture continually tells these women they are still just as sexual, and just as sexually desirable, as they were when they were in their 20s. This is why we have women like Robin Korth, a 59 year old authoress who met a 55 year old man. . That man avoided her sexually on a weekend together until one day he sat her down and told her that her wrinkly body turned him off. He’d be happy to have sex with her in total darkness so he wouldn’t have to look at her; and suggested more flattering clothes for her.

    Well.

    Ms. Korth indignantly dashed off this piece for HuffPo (with photos!) to remind everyone how beautiful she (thinks she) is. She’s kept herself in good shape and is about as attractive as a 59 year old woman can be. But she’s not 23. Or even 43.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robin-korth/sex-over-50_b_5563576.html

  26. greyghost says:

    When I was in high school I heard a guy say this “fuck the hoes not your girl friend” It is work being a wife. It is fun being hot. Part of the blue pill feminine imperative is to make all women pure and good just for being female. (the Churchian blank slate thing) Women will endure any measure of pain (waxing and surgery etc.) to be considered “hot” As long as the men still think she is wife material when the guys she wants to sex stop looking. The balancing act is to be as sexually hot as possible to attract the sexually arousing men and still be marriageable. Having ones cake and eating it too along with a slice of that fat chick’s over there. This is where the slut walks and the Ms. Brink thing come into play. That first video shows what it looks like when called out a good neg to vet a female for slut tendencies. They look embarrassed so there is some hope. (they are gamable to good behavior) The second video shows the little girl is unaware or is a straight up slut type. (they are actors culture Nazi’s so it is the character we are discussing here) No hope for that one. I like this kind of thing.

  27. Farm Boy says:

    Yiayia is an old lady without any sexual capital – women in this position very often try to shame younger women as a way to reduce their power. I suspect that this phenomenon accounts for your observation and not the hypothesis that our great grandmothers were morally superior.

    It does not have to be either/or. My mother would have shamed sluttiness when she was young and old. Better times, those were.

  28. jf12 says:

    re: mentally blocking it. Maybe. But I feel like I’m more traumatized by having to physically block out the seeing of younger women.

    re: ease of attraction. This idea also include the fact that way more men find way more women innately attractive even if the women aren’t doing anything in particular. Let’s lookat the Hollywood class of 1980. Christina Aguilera’s and Jessica Simpson’s methods of trying to look more attractive include not eating quite as many desserts for a month or two, or failing that just show some more cleavage. In contrast, since cocky funny sweet wasn’t working for RyanGosling like it “should”, he two two full years of full-time every day working out extremely hard to become more attractive. And Channing Tatum was tired of only attracting gay men to his handsome fit self, so he took a full year (and, rumored, substances) of extremely hard workouts to become believably attractive to women in his stripper film.

  29. Farm Boy says:

    What IS different, of course, is that women are much more clued in as to what men are attracted to than vice versa

    The reason that guys are not taught what is attractive to women is that society does not want a bunch of McHarley Rock band Drummers.

    Hot chicks on the other hand, don’t seemingly do much harm.

  30. Robin Munn says:

    @Novaseeker -

    As more men take up the red pill and begin to cultivate a more true understanding of what women are attracted to, in fact, [...] the competition among them will increase. It’s already there, with men sexting selfies and so on, but it’s confined to a relatively small subset of men who are both clued in and attractive enough to pull it off. This number will increase in coming years, and it will become almost as bitchy as the competition among the girls is, currently. (Emphasis mine).

    While I agree with you that as more men become aware of women’s true attraction factors, the competition among them will increase, I doubt it will become “bitchy”. That’s a female form of competition — covert putdowns, etc. — which in a man looks like a total DLV and would lead to instant loss of Alpha attractiveness. I think the competition among men to seem attractive to women is much more likely to be overt and in line with masculine behaviors.

  31. crowhill says:

    How dare these women act as if prostitution is a bad thing! How did they get so high and mighty, looking down on women who are just trying to make an honest buck?

  32. Oscar says:

    patriarchal landmine says:
    July 24, 2014 at 7:51 am

    “tempted by sexual sin? maybe, if I believed women got any pleasure from it.”

    You’re doing it wrong.

  33. Novaseeker says:

    While I agree with you that as more men become aware of women’s true attraction factors, the competition among them will increase, I doubt it will become “bitchy”. That’s a female form of competition — covert putdowns, etc. — which in a man looks like a total DLV and would lead to instant loss of Alpha attractiveness. I think the competition among men to seem attractive to women is much more likely to be overt and in line with masculine behaviors.

    Yeah, that’s a good point. I guess I meant the male equivalent of that, which is probably best expressed by a word other than “bitchy”. So, people openly dissing people who don’t have perfect six packs, rather than doing it behind their backs.

  34. greyghost says:

    As men become more red pill we will have the grass eaters or as posted before the douche bag http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/the-great-douchebag-mystery/ MGTOW with the non committed booty call on the side is another way to handle the slut thing. The young ones are figuring it out. http://www.the-spearhead.com/2014/07/21/the-disposability-paradox/ This girl here maybe a way to escape the decline with real commitment from a man. http://www.the-spearhead.com/2013/10/30/teen-girl-achieves-amazing-success-by-ignoring-50-years-of-feminism/
    95% are unworthy enjoy their holes and get you another one some churchian sap with make the payments for you. “How dare you”

  35. Oscar says:

    @Dalrock

    “This is exactly what eleven year old Olympia Nelson describes in her Op-ed at The Age on the selfie phenomenon:”

    I can’t read the Op-ed for some reason, but the quotes I’ve read here don’t seem to be written by an 11-year-old.

  36. Novaseeker says:

    I can’t read the Op-ed for some reason, but the quotes I’ve read here don’t seem to be written by an 11-year-old.

    Yes, it’s depressing, but it is what it is. I clued in to what the young lovelies were being taught / what they were spouting when my son was around that age. He’s been duly armed up since then as a result.

  37. Opus says:

    I didn’t want to embarrass Dalrock (but I must): it did not say eleven year old but a year eleven school girl (i.e. seventeen?).

    [D: Thank you. Fixed!]

  38. jf12 says:

    @Opus, re: year 11 vs 11 years old.

    Ah. The estrogen poisoning is understandable, then.

  39. Oscar says:

    Novaseeker says:
    July 24, 2014 at 10:49 am

    “Yes, it’s depressing, but it is what it is. I clued in to what the young lovelies were being taught / what they were spouting when my son was around that age. He’s been duly armed up since then as a result.”

    I was referring to the quality of her writing, not the subject (unfortunately), but Opus cleared things up (July 24, 2014 at 10:55 am).

  40. donalgraeme says:

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Ms. Nelson taking a 2nd wave feminist position, as compared to a 3rd wave position? Or are we on the 4th wave now, which is reacting to the 3rd wave sex-positive feminists?

  41. feeriker says:

    Dear son, I beg you to believe me when I tell you that you are a sexy ass thug! Please, please, please always believe me when I tell you that you are sexy!

    HAHAHA!

    The good news is that for all but the most hopelessly Gamma of boys/young men, any praises Mom sings about his virtuous masculinity go in one ear, out the other, and into the rhetorical trash can. All boys instinctively realize that Mom’s opinion is hopelessly biased and therefore irrelevant to the SMP.

  42. Anonymous Reader says:

    Opus
    For clarification when I wrote Europe, I meant that part of the world cut-off from real civilisation by a twenty-mile wide channel of water,

    Opus may be quoting the famous London headline:
    “Thick Fog in Channel, Continent Cut Off”.

  43. tbc says:

    Why does Yiayia do what she does and what does she represent? She represents the old guard recognition of women’s actual assets on the marriage marketplace and a concerted effort to maintain the collective value of those assets. Yiayia may not have been morally superior in her youth, but she was a great deal more sensible and recognised that putting all the (physical) goods on display and readily available could only serve to depress their value — something young women seem to have forgotten.

    Yiayia also points to another critical thing that Dal’s post points out: it is women who ultimately police the modesty of other women. Since older women in the US don’t slut shame, but rather compete with the sluttily dressed women a generation or two younger than themselves, they are in no position to advise them to cool it. The Bible is very strategic in telling women, not that they shouldn’t teach, but that they should indeed teach — the older should teach the younger to be keepers at home, to obey their own husbands’, etc.. Why? Because women respond to the market signals of women as a group and not to men and no woman wants to stand out as different. a woman who stands out as different is a woman that makes the whole group of women uncomfortable. So instead of Yiayia telling women they look like sluts, she is rather encouraging them to dress a bit more provocatively and sluttish.

  44. Anonymous says:

    Women left to their own devices (like nowadays) devolve to a who’s-the-sluttiest? contest for male attention… males who’ll simply pump-and-dump them ’cause there’s always another one with no end it sight lately.

  45. theasdgamer says:

    @ Dalrock

    On the cleavage of elderly women jf12, you can’t see it because you (wisely) have blocked it out of your perception. We tend to do that with trauma. Make it a point to see it and you will see what I mean. Of course, you will forever hate me for it once you do.

    You made me pee myself.

    I have learned to block “leaning in” elderly and non-elderly women out of my perception as well.

    Women are a sight to behold when they are wasted, which happens after midnight in any bar. It’s unbelievable.

  46. Those commercials are nice. But the reaction/response the girls at the swimming party would have to YaiYai’s commentary regarding their outward appearance equal to that of pornography would have them giving Yaiyai the middle finger. They would feel no shame. Instead, they would lash out at Yaiyai in an attempt to shame HER.

  47. BradA says:

    The haircut on that 59 year old kills more than the skin. She is old, but such short hair is downgrading.

    OT: Anyone my wife is convinced that as many young single men get sex as young single women. Any links on that topic, here or elsewhere?

  48. To me that is the problem. I don’t think young women would really listen to older women trying to set “boundaries” for them. Instead, young women would just tell older women to go to Hell for giving them unsolicited advice. Who are YOU (old woman) to tell me what I look like to you? Why don’t you just hurry up and die…

    …so whatever “control” the older generation of women may have had over younger ones in guiding them in appropriate appearance, appropriate manners, whatever, that is now GONE because younger women feel much more “empowered” to be in control of their own lives. And the negative comments of others are not welcome.

  49. Opus says:

    So far as I can see there are two other Yiayia commercials; overall Yiayia does not approve of living-in-sin, kitchen-bitches, pornography or prostitution – all facets of modern America – as well as Fog Enshrouded Britain. If Dalrock wrote posts condemning any of these four things you can be sure that drive-by commenters and Futrelle or Adam Lee would say that the blog was a cess-pit of Misogyny and women like Mrs Lee or Mrs Brink would accuse commenters of being unable to get laid, but when a woman – who is not American – with an SMV of 0.00 makes the same point, it hurts – proving that slut-shaming can only come from a woman. The living-in-sin couple and the kitchen-bitch couple are not bad people and neither (this is why they are so funny) the Pornography and Prostitution girls are not indecently dressed – but in some small way they are letting themselves down – and they know it.

    My girlfriend always dressed in the most stylish but modest manner, yet when back on her island – and in her early twenties – would on the beach go naked with her male and female friends – as they did. She says she is no longer slim enough to do that. :( I am assuming that in the main Nudity is not common in America. I like the Micro-cini.

  50. jf12 says:

    re: “as many young single men get sex as young single women”

    I don’t don’t that it is close to being true, but ANY inference from it (other than trivial: the sex one person has tends to be with another person) is wrong. It is NOT the case that as many young single men who want sex can get sex as young single women can. It’s ALWAYS easier for women.

  51. feeriker says:

    I clued in to what the young lovelies were being taught / what they were spouting when my son was around that age. He’s been duly armed up since then as a result.

    The root of the problem, of course, is that the mothers of most of these “young lovelies” differ from their slutty daughters only in chronological age – NOT in mental age/maturity/moral grounding. I cannot tell you the number of times in recent years that I’ve encountered middle-aged cougars who are in open competition with their teenage daughters for who can best exploit their inner whore and who can ride the most desirable cocks in the carousel. Adultolescence is an intergenerational thing with many Amerikan women today. It is also a truly a unique strain of repulsive.

    Needless to say, every boy/young man today needs to be trained to take a long, hard look at the mother of any girl he’s interested in. If her mama behaves like a slut, odds are almost 100 percent that she will too.

  52. feeriker says:

    Women are a sight to behold when they are wasted, which happens after midnight in any bar. It’s unbelievable.

    It’s also entertaining as hell. It’s why I don’t mind being DD whenever friends ask. You can’t pay for more amusing entertainment than to watch people –especially drunken, desparate cougars– in action in a bar at around 1:30 AM.

  53. Mark says:

    @Dalrock

    Interesting Post Mister “D”

    @Cail
    “”anyone who thinks the problem today is that girls aren’t confident enough and just need more pep talks so that they can virtuously refuse to play along with the patriarchy’s dirty games, really isn’t paying attention””

    So True!…..I have read some of Walsh’s Blog.I don’t think he has a clue about very much that is going on around him.

  54. Dalrock says:

    On year 11 vs 11 years old, thanks again for catching that and pointing it out Opus. It did surprise me some when I originally read it wrong. However, my wife used to teach 7th graders and you would probably be surprised at what they are already up to. Since 7th graders are only a bit older than 11, it didn’t strike me as that far off.

  55. GK Chesterton says:

    Those ads are hilarious. And yes the first one is the best.

  56. Mark says:

    @Dalrock

    “”Women absolutely adore sexual attention. You are listening to their protestations (what they say) instead of watching what they do.””

    You should archive this quote.Anyone that has been in sales…..studied “sales techniques” from Zig Ziggler to Tony Robbins will learn that 65% of communication is non verbal or physical. When men understand this they will be able to initiate conversation with women via their “physical talk” and use less cheesy PUA lines and discover great success with women.

  57. deti says:

    BradA:

    Your wife is an apex fallacy sufferer. For women, sex is a choice; for men, sex is an achievement.

    Any woman a 4 or above in attractiveness can walk into any bar anywhere in America, say “I will take one of you home for sex right now”. Watch the men line up; and she will simply select the most attractive one.

    Any man doing this without the SMV of George Clooney would be arrested and taken to the local psych unit.

    Seriously, though, it’s not 20% of men getting 80% of the women for sex; but I’m pretty sure that it’s probably 20% of the men getting around 50%. Many women who aren’t carousel riders will have a “slip up” or a “mistake” with a hawt player, and then quickly retreat back to their attempts at long term relationships.

    For men it breaks down like this more or less:

    Top 15%: Players. Sexually attractive. They clean up with women and have a lot of sexual choice. Alpha Fux.

    Middle 60 to 65%: Average guys in the big humpy middle of the curve. They are the boyfriends and LTRs, the future husbands; the “Beta Bucks”. A few of these men do pretty well; most get one or two LTRs and a few ONSs, then a wife; a few don’t do well at all.

    Bottom 20%: The true unfortunate losers, the 1s and 2s. Omegas. They are unattractive and have nothing going for them. Painfully socially awkward, grossly obese, or grindingly poor. They can get sex only with bottom feeders, sluts, and hookers, and even then it’s difficult. They aren’t marriage material.

    I’m pretty sure that Mrs. BradA believes this:

    –Hawt player gets a new girl every weekend. He gets sex as much as any girl does.

    –Socially awkward guy had a long term girlfriend who broke up with him six months ago and is in a dry spell. He gets sex as much as any girl does. (He isn’t getting sex now, but he used to, so that counts as “getting sex”.)

    –Nerdy guy had one ONS with a slut. He gets sex as much as any girl does. (He can’t get sex to save his life, but since he got a pityfuck from a slut, that counts as “getting sex”.)

  58. feeriker says:

    Gnstead, they would lash out at Yaiyai in an attempt to shame HER.

    Having lived in Greece off and on for nearly four years a couple of decades ago, I will echo the statement made upthread that you DO NOT mess with YiaYia – EVER.

    You do, and it is guaranteed that she will kick your ass into the next century, even if she’s 90 years old and hobbling on a walker. My Athenian landlord’s MIL, when in her late 80s, did this on a couple of occasions that I can remember to her rebellious teenage grandchildren who were considerably stronger and faster than she was. Yet the screams they emitted during their thrashing made me think she was dismembering them. Hardened “warrior” that I was at the time, even I cringed.

    If those girls in the ad had givev YiaYia the finger, YiaYia would’ve wasted not a second grabbing and bending the offending fingers back until the bones snapped. Given that “flipping the bird” in public at random strangers has become a pastime among today’s generation of ill-bred Amerikan sluts, we need an entire army of YiaYias here. Maybe that’s one way to get Greece out of its current economic depression.

  59. Opus says:

    @Anonymous Reader

    Indeed, but I never get the joke – the continent was cut-off. Wherever Europe may be, England thinks that it is an island in the Atlantic situate about one hundred and fifty mile north-east of Boston.

  60. deti says:

    BradA:

    More to the point, your wife believes this probably for two reasons:

    1. She believes she gives you sex regularly.
    2. She sees very attractive men who have no trouble attracting attractive women. Since attractive men are the only ones she notices, she believes ALL men have these attributes. She does not see the difficulty most men have with gaining or holding the interest of even an average woman, because she does not see or notice or pay any attention to average men.

  61. Mark says:

    @feeriker

    “”You can’t pay for more amusing entertainment than to watch people –especially drunken, desparate cougars– in action in a bar at around 1:30 AM””

    I know it is a joke…..but,great entertainment! We don’t refer to Vodka as “Panty Remover” for nothing!

  62. my wife is convinced that as many young single men get sex as young single women.

    Convincing a woman otherwise is a pretty tall order. Even red-pill-aware women who hang around here have a hard time letting go of that one. The problem is that the men who aren’t getting sex are invisible to them. They walk around all day and all the men they see are attractive enough to get sex.

  63. Novaseeker says:

    The problem is that the men who aren’t getting sex are invisible to them. They walk around all day and all the men they see are attractive enough to get sex.

    Right.

    As I said several years ago (I think here), women experience most men as “grey”, with only a few standing out “in color” in any given setting. The men who stand out in color are getting sex, women are right about that. The issue is that the men in grey are not noticed — they are just like wallpaper on a desktop computer — background that is meaningless from the sexual point of view.

  64. feeriker,

    If those girls in the ad had givev YiaYia the finger, YiaYia would’ve wasted not a second grabbing and bending the offending fingers back until the bones snapped. Given that “flipping the bird” in public at random strangers has become a pastime among today’s generation of ill-bred Amerikan sluts, we need an entire army of YiaYias here. Maybe that’s one way to get Greece out of its current economic depression.

    We may very well need an entire army of Yaiyais here, but it would do little good. The young (more or less) could no longer be shamed. Its not just young women, its all the “empowered” young.

    Case in point, just yesterday on the way to Costco, two young people (young equals under 25) were jaywalking in front of the car just in front of me. The guy layed on his horn and the two young people didn’t even look at him, just flipped him off with their middle fingers as they casually crossed the street. Then it got interesting. The guy put the car in park right in the middle of the street, got out of his car, and started walking towards the two of them. When he was (maybe) 10 feet from him the young man, stopped, turned and looked at him and said “…if you touch me, touch her, you go to jail and I will sue your fucking ass!” He flipped him off again (so did his girlfriend) and the two of them turned around and just kept walking. The man who got out of his car just stood there in complete shock, in total capitulation. Three things were clear to me at this moment:

    #1) Those two young people had nothing to lose, were incorrigible, but they knew the law and were willing to use it
    #2) Those two young people would NOT (in anyway) have their manners or behavior judged by others (your comments are NOT welcome) and
    #3) this is the world that we have created for ourselves where the individual is completely empowered to act out in anyway they see fit (no matter how uncivil or inappropriate) so long as they bring no physical harm to another.

    I don’t find these situations all that unusual. I saw a similar situation just outside a Target store not even a year ago, two young men laughing when an elderly man slipped off his motorized electric scooter. When confronted by a couple of people as to how rude they were being these two boys started yelling a myriad of f-bombs to any and all Target patrons who cared to hear, assuring one and all that if anyone so much as touched them, those people would be in court and their personal assets would be seized by the full power of government.

    I think Yaiyai would end up in jail if she did what you said she would do to anyone flipping her the bird. People are “empowered” and we don’t shame anymore. Same working in those commercials, that was nostalgic but from a time long ago, that much is certain.

  65. Novaseeker says:

    Yiayia has to be *your* Yiayia to have authority. The stranger Yiayia still has *some* authority, but much less. The Yiayias in your family, however, are a different story.

  66. I see more and more late twenties to early thirty “acquaintances” taking naughty selfies, I see less of the younger cohort doing it as of late.

  67. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqzlO_SEINY is the video of the unmarried pair that sleep together.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M873VP-WHV8 is an extended cut of the stay at home dad.

  68. anonymous_ng says:

    IBB is correct. The only social sanction that seems to exist today is against those who seek to constrain behavior that is otherwise legal. Ergo, the only limit these days is whether or not something is legal.

    Well, it’s true in the middle class.

    I suspect that in the upper class, social sanctions still exist, and in the lower class, an educational beat down is still a possibility, jail be damned.

  69. Novaseeker says:

    Ergo, the only limit these days is whether or not something is legal.

    Yeah, not really. Social sanctions exist against smoking, porn, “sexist and racist talk”, fast food, etc.

    There’s plenty of mainstream “approved” social sanction. Just never, ever, ever, ever, ever around sex.

  70. Nova,

    Yiayia has to be *your* Yiayia to have authority. The stranger Yiayia still has *some* authority, but much less. The Yiayias in your family, however, are a different story.

    There aren’t hardly any young people left who have any Yaiyais in their family. When you are raised by single/divorced mom who REFUSED to listen to anyone when she screwed up, the last thing she would have around the house/apartment and around her kids is HER mom (or grand-mom) giving her grief for how badly SHE screwed up. So if grammy or great grammy isn’t around, then the kids never get shamed by the Yaiyai.

    More to the point, the concept of “authority” is a completely foreign concept to young people who have grown up without a dad. As far as they are concerned, the only “authority” they are familiar with is the five-oh kind (the cops) and they are generally doing all they can to avoid being near them. And forget any spiritual “authority” that is just a non-starter.

  71. Dalrock says:

    On the question of who polices promiscuity (men or women), it is both, but they generally play different roles. The claim that women don’t care what men think is entirely untrue, but they desperately want to convince you otherwise so you don’t exercise this power over them. I made this point about the slutwalks; it was a global temper tantrum because a rather middling (but respected by men) man noted offhand that sluttyness existed. This was so terrifying and stung so badly that it provoked a worldwide temper tantrum. “Never again!” could have been the slogan for the march. Likewise, see the incident with Ms. Brink’s reaction to my suggestion that rules of morality exist.

    Feminists are right that Yiayia is a feature of the patriarchy. She won’t exist in a culture where men don’t express the importance of modesty and chastity. This gets back to the confusion on the need for fathers to beg their daughters to believe they are beautiful. Many have misunderstood why girls without fathers are (in general) so much sluttier. Girls with strong and loving fathers don’t want to disappoint their father. Yiayia is keeping day to day tabs on things, so she is the one we most directly associate with the policing. She immediately calls out any infractions of the rules she and other older women codified based on the general direction provided by dad (and grandfather, and uncle, etc). Being seen as a slut by Yiayia means dad is going to be very disappointed, and this disappointment from dad burns even more profoundly than the throwaway comment of an unknown police officer in Toronto. Begging her to believe that she is beautiful won’t help. But a father who tells his daughter that she looks pretty, very nice, etc when she dresses well and appropriately will make a huge difference. She will absolutely beam with pride. This tells her what her standard of beautiful should be, and reminds her to continually strive to meet or exceed that standard. Being told you are the winner no matter what is terrible, but having something to strive for is wonderful.

    The other source of Yiayia’s power (and the practical reason why dad, etc. cares) is her influence on eligible men looking to marry. When you boil it down, “slut” means a woman not fit to marry. Getting labeled a slut, or even having this hinted in the most remote way, burns because it invokes a fear of not being considered marriage material.

  72. greyghost says:

    Good observation IBB That is how they roll. Those kids know who to try that with. But never let that intimidate you from calling out a slut. YiaYia can still do her thing. I wouldn’t have got out of the car the guy was an clueless ass not to know the state of his country (blue pill) Now if one of those kids touches you take that CHL and center mass them to an early grave. Or beat their ass until they qualify for disability at 17. Texas doesn’t tolerate thugs

  73. @innocentbystanderboston

    I agree with you on the extent of the resistance to shaming, but a huge part of that is the competing shaming. No matter what I do I’m shamed by SOMEONE. Heck, I’m shamed by feminists for being a guy. I’m shamed for “white, hetero cis male privilege” by social justice warriors. I’m shamed by Driscol for reasons Dalrock has endlessly analyzed. I’m shamed if I don’t leave “a living wage tip” for someone that made my dining experience worse, not better. I’m shamed if I don’t offer my chair to a traditionalist woman. I’m shamed if I open a door for the wrong pissed off feminist.

    And that list above is just the start of it. So why should I care about anyone shaming me, particularly a stranger, other than to become hostile to that other person’s attempt to control me?

    An attempt to shame me instantly creates hostility in me, and causes me to ready myself to defend myself from being physically assaulted, because when shaming doesn’t work, some people will physically assault you. And I’m in my 30s.

    I do, however, have a sense of shame. It is activated by my realizing something that I did wrong, or agreeing with someone that points out flawed behavior in a caring way, and my agreeing with that person. It is an internally generated sense of shame, based on my own morals and bible-based code of ethics.

  74. deti says:

    The role of Yiayia in today’s society is portrayed by Robin Korth, Helen Mirren, Katharine Hepburn, Elizabeth Taylor and Hillary Rodham Clinton.

  75. anonymous_ng says:

    Perhaps. I suspect we’re talking past each other to a degree. When I think of social sanctions, I think about an actual felt negative consequence. If you engage in sexist/racist rants on facebook, it might get you fired from your job, but so long as you only do it on facebook, there might be no cause for your employer to sanction you.

    You cannot refuse to rent your house to someone because you disapprove of their lifestyle choices. You cannot refuse to hire someone because you disapprove of them socially. I contend that old style social sanctions basically don’t exist any longer.

    If you won’t let your kids play with the kids of divorced parents or refuse to associate with unwed parents, so what? Almost no one else will follow your lead.

    I don’t know of people suffering negative consequences because they are smokers or because they eat fast food. That society to one degree or another turns it’s nose down at smoking and has made it much harder to engage in publicly, is not in my mind the same as social sanctions, but I concede that I may be quibbling.

  76. Novaseeker says:

    The role of Yiayia in today’s society is portrayed by Robin Korth, Helen Mirren, Katharine Hepburn, Elizabeth Taylor and Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    Right.

    It’s the anti-yiayia.

  77. Anonymous Reader says:

    Dalrock
    On the question of who polices promiscuity (men or women), it is both, but they generally play different roles

    Sure. Men civilize, women socialize. Men set boundaries, older women police younger women to stay in those boundaries. Men set civilized norms [*], women socialize children and young people to those norms.

    [*] Within whatever larger structure that exists, of course. In the context of this site, men set civilizational norms predicated on their understanding of the Bible. As we all know, from discussions and from history, there are differing understandings available and that can lead to disagreement. But in the broader view from 30,000 feet, most people in the West who have any connection to the Bible can agree on some common points, in this context modesty would be important.And frankly, it’s easier for all concerned if the fathers within a group agree on what is modest, and then inform their wives and daughters, rather than letting the women decide for themselves in an extended cluckfest.

  78. Novaseeker says:

    I don’t know of people suffering negative consequences because they are smokers or because they eat fast food. That society to one degree or another turns it’s nose down at smoking and has made it much harder to engage in publicly, is not in my mind the same as social sanctions, but I concede that I may be quibbling.

    It seems that the subtle sanctions don’t count for you. In my circles, if you smoked or openly ate fast food, noone would “say anything” directly, of course, but over the course of a not long period of time, people distance themselves from you. It’s true. That is social sanction.

    The family who won’t let their kids play at the gay family’s house will, over time, have fewer play dates for their kids. Because other parents will punish them for disagreeing on social values. That is also social sanction.

    Yes, the law has made it hard to actually refuse goods and services to people based on social sanction, but in my view that’s a very legal and narrow view of social sanction. In my view, as a lawyer myself, I view social sanction as something that exists *outside* the law. That is — disincentives,other than legal ones, for not toeing the party line.

    Of course, one can always GTOW. That is — ignore the social sanctions. But most people don’t want to do that, because most people want to “fit in” socially, and so extra-legal social sanctions do play a role. And they abound. They are just not in the areas that they used to be in, and they are more subtle, but no less tangible as a result of their subtlety, in my view.

  79. feeriker says:

    “The claim that women don’t care what alpha men think is entirely untrue…”

    Just had to edit that, Dalrock. Critical omission there (which I’m sure was inadvertent).

    It’s observably untrue that women care about what men generically, as the opposite sex thimk of their behavior. Only the 5 to 20 percent of them that are sexually visible and that set off natural attraction triggers have any such leverage at all. Not meaning to be pedantic, but I think that this is a crucial point to stress, lest the “average Joe” be led to believe that his attempt to shame a woman into virtuous behavior will lead to anything other than derisive laughter and an invitation to autofornicate.

    .

  80. Dalrock,

    I made this point about the slutwalks; it was a global temper tantrum because a rather middling (but respected by men) man noted offhand that sluttyness existed. This was so terrifying and stung so badly that it provoked a worldwide temper tantrum. “Never again!” could have been the slogan for the march.

    Point of order, the Toronto cop that made the comment about women dressing like sluts (that it existed) is not what threw the feminists into a collective temper tantrum. It was instead that he said that if a woman dresses like a slut, she might be encouraging a would be rapist to rape her. It wasn’t that slut dress existed. It was instead that dressing like a slut might (in someway) make you accountable for an unlawful violation of your body. THAT is what started all the slut-walking, the worldwide temper tantrum. The gender of the cop had nothing to do with this. It was instead about partially assigning blame (to women) for their being raped based on their physical appearance, an appearance that they are lawfully allowed to appear as they choose.

    Someone said it earlier, if “authority” is only used to administer justice over what is legal vs illegal, then the Yaiyai no longer has any control, no power to socialize. The Yaiyai’s ultimate power is to shame. Ultimately, that is ALL she can do. If she does that and those she is shaming do NOT alter their behavior (or worse, they do what those young people did outside the Costco or the Target) then the Yaiyai is now useless.

  81. greyghost says:

    feeriker
    Shaming a woman directly into virtuous behavior is not going to happen nor should it be desirable. A far more effective way is the speak about her to other young men style . Example when a woman displays slut like behavior inform the young men in the area with fear or hesitation that that is a sluts action or that is not a woman to marry or have kids with. Kills two birds with one stone young men learn and the woman gets a little shame and other women get the message that men are aware. Remember all sluts need to think they are worthy of marriage that is where the esteem is. Ninety percent of feminism and misandry is to knock down men so she can feel strong. Low esteem women are always polite that is how selfish solipsism works. Just as high esteem women shit on everybody and every thing.

  82. anonymous_ng says:

    I see your point. I’ve never seen those kinds of things play out in the real world. It may be that I’m not observant enough socially to notice, or it could be that I’ve never fit in because I’ve continually moved around as a kid if somewhat less so as an adult.

  83. deti says:

    “It’s observably untrue that women care about what men generically, as the opposite sex thimk of their behavior. Only the 5 to 20 percent of them that are sexually visible and that set off natural attraction triggers have any such leverage at all.”

    Yes, because to most women, the monolith or entity women understand as “men” IS only the most attractive of the male homo sapiens. The guy at the quicklube place who changes the oil in her car, the high school science teacher, the garbage man, the guys on the elevator when she going to work? They are “males”. They are grey, they don’t appear “in color”, as Nova said. They are just filler in her day as she goes through life. She does not care one whit what they think about anything. If one of these males dare try to act like a “man”, there are other males – police with guns, military, white knights, manginas – who will leap to her defense at a moment’s notice to protect her.

  84. Dalrock,

    When you boil it down, “slut” means a woman not fit to marry. Getting labeled a slut, or even having this hinted in the most remote way, burns because it invokes a fear of not being considered marriage material.

    Quite true. But that fear of not being considered marriage material only exists for women (past a certain age) because it is only at that moment where they feel they WANT to be married when they need to start worrying about whether or not they bring anything to the marriage table (positively or negatively.)

    I spent a lot of time (in my late college years) hanging around other young people (the majority of whom had already graduated college) and listening to what they said and watched how they appeared. For the majority of young women who were of that age, they dressed like sluts. And they didn’t care because they weren’t the least bit interested in getting married. They were having far too much fun getting free dinners from betas they worked with but wouldn’t sleep with and hoping up and down on a variety of different alpha cocks. To them, these were the best years of their lives. And I’ll never forget what one of them said to the other (while sitting in the Jacuzzi in Daytona Beach) about how much longer she would live like a slut…

    …I guess I’ll just keep doing this until I turn 35, then I’ll just move to another part of the country where no one knew my free wheeling past and just pick the first guy that shows an interest in me and marry him…

    The belief here is that your slutty past can be cleansed NOT by Christ but instead by geography. When the slut up and decides that she is done slutting around, that is okay, just go somewhere where the local men have no possible knowledge of your past and start fresh with a whole new appearance. Go forward and start cycling through the men who are more marriage minded.

    Yaiyai has never left her village Dalrock. She knows everyone in town but she has never wandered more than 2 miles from her place of birth. So of course, you can’t look like a slut in the village if you are never going to leave it because everyone will remember. But if you can be REBORN an almost virgin in a NEW VILLAGE (where no one knew of you) then the Hell with what Yaiyai thinks. Let her and her socializing comments rot in her old village. Yes you can’t reconstruct your hymen, but you can reboot your N count back down to 1 with any story that you want.

  85. Dalrock, I screwed up the blockquote above. Could you alter? Thanks.

  86. greyghost says:

    IBB
    even a 15 year old twerking piece of ass doesn’t want it confirmed that she is not marriage material. Trust in that. What you are most likely seeing is women that don’t want to be married because they do not want to get married with all of that dick out there to ride. have faith.

  87. tickletik says:

    I love these commercials. Especially the stunned and somewhat ashamed looks of the women.

    Dalrock, i think you are reading these commercials wrong. I think these commercials are actually subversive.

    If you notice the shocked looks on the women, they aren’t disgusted by Yiaia, they actually seem horrified that they aren’t meeting her standards!

  88. gg,

    What you are most likely seeing is women that don’t want to be married because they do not want to get married with all of that dick out there to ride. have faith.

    It is what I saw. This was years ago.

  89. jf12 says:

    @feeriker re: “It’s observably untrue that women care about what men generically, as the opposite sex thimk of their behavior.”

    I wholeheartedly endorse.

  90. BradA says:

    Deti and jf12,

    My wife holds that view mostly because she is a social conservative and thinks our society is in really bad shape. She is right about the bad shape, but not about the root causes.

    I think she wants to think men can get as much sex just as easily. Probably more of a balancing thing, but will have to ask her.

    I have read enough stories here to be convinced otherwise. My own personal story is an exception in here eyes, even though I fit part of the no sex before marriage meme. Some is due to my geekiness and such and part is due to the strong religious convictions I had throughout my life.

  91. Opus says:

    It is indeed difficult (I have just re-read the linked Slut-walk post from 2011) for men to grasp how or why the accusation of slut is so devastating to a woman.

    Once many years ago, I had a girlfriend – who now one would probably call a Friend with Benefits – and I was very keen on her, indeed so much so that I wanted her to become Mrs Opus, so you can see how I felt. She, however, seemed to enjoy cuckolding me in so far as a friend with benefits can be cuckolded. She obviously got something out of it, and whether she really was shagging Harley McBadBoy, Alpha McGorgeous (I knew they had slept together before I became her ‘friend’) and Fuckbuddy RockGuitarist – Deti’s list of characters really existed, at least she knew them – as well as her Irish friend’s husband Ahab the Arab whom she implied she was also enjoying extra marital favours with her, I suppose I will never know for certain, but she was always implying to me that they were her lovers – not I must add that I was Incel with her, I had benefits but I wanted more and on an exclusive basis. Eventually I had had enough and in a regrettable lapse of both taste and temper as she was telling me of yet more sexual escapades to which I had not been sent an invitation I told her that she was ‘a f****** slut’ at which [drumroll] she immediately burst into floods of tears.

  92. Farm Boy says:

    I told her that she was ‘a f****** slut’ at which [drumroll] she immediately burst into floods of tears.

    Well, she was a slut. What was the problem? She didn’t know?

  93. Novaseeker says:

    Maybe, but Athenos is a Kraft brand. I doubt they are trying to be intentionally subversive. I think the message is “Even though YiaYia’s social values are stupid and old fashioned, and you’re beyond that, tradition still matters when it comes to cheese.”

  94. deti says:

    Tickle:

    I disagree. I don’t think it’s that the women are surprised they’re not meeting Yiayia’s standards. It’s that they’re surprised anyone could possibly reasonably think this way in today’s enlightened modern society. It’s silly and funny — that’s how the marketing folks intended it.

    The commercials are poking fun at Yiayia as a quaint, archaic, silly, comical throwback. “Hahaha, look at the stick in the mud old biddy! Nobody thinks like that anymore!”

  95. Farm Boy says:

    Deti is right. One has to look who they are selling to: Crazy Old Greek Women, or hot young chicks? And young guys looking at the hot chicks?

  96. jf12 says:

    @BradA, the concept to spring on your wife is selection bias. Yes, it’s apex fallacy (the grayed out masses of men), but the general idea is selection bias. The number she wants to compare is the number of truly promiscuous men and women, and these are indeed roughly equal (wherever you want to draw the line, N=12 per year, or having N > 2 in one day, any measure). But that means she is already selecting for highly-desired men, of which there are very few (e.g. les than 15% of men could pull it off even if they were so inclined). That selection bias completely kills any UTILITY of the fact that the numbers are roughly equal.

  97. jf12 says:

    Maybe the idea is that eating Athenos will enable you to be more slutty by offsetting your sluttiness with traditionality, like drinking Diet Coke lets you eat doughnuts.

  98. Farm Boy says:

    Speaking of cheese comercials, here are some good ones. Notice how the bear maintains frame.

  99. “As I said several years ago (I think here), women experience most men as “grey”, with only a few standing out “in color” in any given setting. The men who stand out in color are getting sex, women are right about that. The issue is that the men in grey are not noticed — they are just like wallpaper on a desktop computer — background that is meaningless from the sexual point of view.”

    That is a great way of putting it.

  100. feeriker says:

    Eventually I had had enough and in a regrettable lapse of both taste and temper as she was telling me of yet more sexual escapades to which I had not been sent an invitation I told her that she was ‘a f****** slut’ at which [drumroll] she immediately burst into floods of tears.

    Opus, you of course knew her and we don’t, BUT

    I’m willing to wager that the reason she was so deeply stung by the (absolutely appropriate) “f****** slut” epithet you fired off at het is NOT because it either offended her sensibilities or because she considered it untrue and improper. The reason it upset her is because 1) you called her out on it, and 2) by calling her out on it you let her know that your tolerance threshold had been exceeded, and that (IIYC) the relationship/free ride was over.

    If I’m reading you correctly, she’s long been out of your life. My guess is that she’s probably still doing the same thing to some other (far lower status now that she’s aged) man, proving that your words lacked the ultimate power of sticks and stones.

  101. TFH says:

    Opus,

    She obviously got something out of it, and whether she really was shagging Harley McBadBoy, Alpha McGorgeous

    Wait, Opus chooses an alpha archetype who happens to be Scottish? Even if borrowed from deti’s roster?

    Even a choice of a French-smoothtalker or Pakistani-cricketer archetype would be less of a surprise than that.

    Next : Cats playing with dogs.

  102. deti says:

    BradA:

    If your wife is a typical run of the mill socon, then she probably believes much like tradcons and FotF and Director Glenn Stanton do.

    To such folks, the problem is that women just want to be wives and mommies. These mean, nasty, immoral men don’t want to marry; they just want to use those girls for fun and sex.

    They believe women never, ever have sex outside marriage unless a bad man tricked them into it.

    They also believe that women never do anything immoral; and that if she did, it is because a bad man tricked and duped her into it.

    They also believe that women have no social or sexual power; and if they do have any such power; it is used only for altruistic and moral ends to help her family.

    They believe men are the problem with society. If men would just man up and marry the women they’re having sex with, and get jobs and become husbands and fathers, then society’s problems would automatically be solved. Note that they do not believe women need to do anything to facilitate this; nor do they believe that women might bear some of the responsibility. They just want men to do it all. They just want men to stop screwing feminism up.

    Most women in this position simply cannot handle irrefutable, overwhelming evidence of female immorality and bad conduct. They cannot abide it; they turn away from it; they do all they can to say it doesn’t exist. Believe me, I know – I run up against it all the time. You’re seeing it now with Spreadsheet Guy. The HUSsies are turning to the “well, the problem is that he just needs to communicate better, and he is in the wrong because a spreadsheet [jeez, what a social retard] is NOT the way to talk about this problem” canard to explain it.

  103. feeriker says:

    Wait, Opus chooses an alpha archetype who happens to beScottish? Even if borrowed from deti’s roster?

    An even more horrifying thought is yhat they could be … *SHUDDER* … Irish. But I won’t dare offer up the idea, since it might drive our dear Englush friend over the edge.

  104. TFH says:

    I should point out that while the Islamic burqa is greatly vilified in the West (especially by Republican whiteknighting types)…

    1) A lot of women wear it voluntarily in countries where it is not mandated (including in the West).
    2) It is usually older women enforcing it onto younger women (as it nullifies the attention younger women would get). No one wants the burqa to be enforced more than older/less attractive women.
    3) The burqa makes it very easy for women to sneak around and cheat, due to the move about anonymously.

  105. feeriker says:

    English, not Englush (damned Smartphone keyboards!). In no way am I suggesting that Opus has a drinking problem.

  106. deti says:

    You’re also seeing this on the other thread with Barb who talks about Spreadsheet Guy. To Barb and folks like her, the problem is not that wife is refusing sex. No, the problem is the husband, because he’s so emotionally and socially stunted that he gave her a spreadsheet — a SPREADSHEET, the horror! — telling her of her wrongs against him.

    To such folks, the problem is not that she won’t do her wifely duty. No, the problem is the emotional retard of a husband who just wants sex and has to create documentation of her refusals in order to get her attention.

    How DARE he create documentation! How DARE he want sex! How DARE he say “act like a wife”!

  107. TFH says:

    deti,

    Women don’t like their words and deeds scrutinized or even recorded. The documentation aspect is what she doesn’t like.

    The same goes for the fact that emails can be saved. Many women *hate* that as it can expose their shifting morality and contradictory positions. The female brain has not evolved to an age where their communications and actions can be recorded.

    This also explains why ‘no fault’ is such a big part of divorce law, auto-accident liability, etc., and why rape law is the only one where the accuser remains anonymous, and there is so much zeal to remove due process.

  108. DeNihilist says:

    Actually Deti, Barb is arguing from a non-Christian point of view. Where men and women are equal and women have no need to “obey” their husband.

    I read her comments, and cannot grasp this “how DARE” verbiage you are spouting.

    Is she right? From a Christian point – No.

    From the modern point – Yes

    So it comes down to where on the spectrum you are arguing from.

    Simple.

  109. Pingback: Yiayia The Slut-Shamer | Hipster Racist

  110. feeriker says:

    Women don’t like their words and deeds scrutinized or even recorded. 

    If men were only permitted to learn one thing and one thing only about women, this would be the essential thing to walk away with. A woman comes absolutely unhinged when she is confronted with hard, incontrovertible evidence of her actions. The reaction of a vampire to exposure to a cross made of reflective silver would be less violent.

  111. deti says:

    Another canard I often see with tradcons and socons, and that Dalrock has alluded to in the past couple of posts, is why women engage in premarital sex.

    Women will have us believe that they are having sex with these attractive men, dressing like sluts, joining wet T shirt contests and dancing on bar tables because they are just looking for love. They just want to find good men, good husbands, get married, and live bucolic suburban lives. Um, no. They are having sex with these men primarily because they want to have fun. They might HOPE that maybe if they’re lucky this hawt guy will be The One; but if he isn’t, well, at least she’ll get to have a lot of fun — and fun is what they want. THEN then will find “good men”, settle down, and move to the house in the burbs.

    And also, they are putting off marriage because they can — because they’re virtually assured of marriage even after carouseling, or working, or serving as a missionary in some Third World country, or grad school, or whatever. The numbers bear this out — most of these women are still marrying, albeit not nearly as well as they might have.

    So, most women are not out there in the social scene because they are looking for husbands. They are out there looking for — and having — fun, and sex, and good times.

  112. Okay, maybe someone out there can explain this to me, but isn’t a spreadsheet the perfect format for documenting this kind of problem? It’s an easy to enter tabular form of data, allowing you to have field headings, and instance rows.

    Or are they saying that communicating using well formatted hard data is somehow “wrong”? It seems like a perfectly logical and valid form of communicating data to me.

    Or is their point that he should not communicate using data, because “no reelz, just feelz.”

  113. deti says:

    Fee, TFH:

    Women are unable to handle not only evidence of their own bad conduct; but also have shown a complete inability to accept ANY evidence of ANY female misconduct, even if it is not her own.

    The response is absolutely furious: “NAWALT!” “You’re being SO judgmental!” And on and on. And these are the responses of evangelical Christian women.

    The bonds of the herd are stronger than marital bonds, in some cases.

  114. Farm Boy says:

    With respect to the spreadsheet, who was humiliated more by its being published, him or her?

  115. I disagree. I don’t think it’s that the women are surprised they’re not meeting Yiayia’s standards. It’s that they’re surprised anyone could possibly reasonably think this way in today’s enlightened modern society.

    True, and yet, look how the girls in the first video instinctively are abashed — like Adam and Eve suddenly realizing they were naked. That doesn’t go along with the feminist message of empowerment, yet it occurred to the makers of the ad to put it in there. Feminism, being at right angles to reality, creates a lot of that kind of cognitive dissonance.

    Girls are able to do a lot of the stuff they do these days because they never let themselves think about what they’re doing. But when someone points it out in clear language, you can tell they know. We’ve talked before about that video where the guy asks a bunch of college girls if they have a best guy friend, and then asks whether they know he wants more than friendship. Every single time, you can see the girl blush as she realizes how she’s just admitted she’s using and tormenting the guy. They already knew it, but they didn’t let themselves think about it until he tricked them into it.

    A girl who socializes in a bikini, showing off 95% of her flesh to men who aren’t her husband, because that’s what the rest of the herd is doing, still knows she’s practically naked. She just keeps her fear about that under the surface. But it’s never really that far below the surface, so if someone says, “You’re naked,” it comes flooding up and causes feelbad. That’s why they work so hard to keep anyone from doing that.

  116. greyghost says:

    Dirty little secret

    women get pleasure physical and emotional from sex the same as some guy would. nothing more to add to it.

  117. deti says:

    JtA:

    Spreadsheet Guy’s interlocutors say he shouldn’t have sent her written documentation. He should have sat down with her and talked to her, and shared his feelings about wanting more sex from her. He needs to talk to her about feelings. Feelings, not facts, say the women.

    He should not have sent it to her in an email while she was leaving on a business trip, because that’s cold and uncaring, say the women. It’s too calculating, too high tech, not enough high touch.

    The problem, of course, is that him talking to her about his feelings about wanting more sex and how he feels about her near-constant rejection of him would only exacerbate it. She cares not one bit about his feelings; if she did, she’d have more sex with him without his asking for it.

  118. feeriker says:

    Okay, maybe someone out there can explain this to me, but isn’t a spreadsheet the perfect format for documenting this kind of problem? It’s an easy to enter tabular form of data, allowing you to have field headings, and instance rows.

    Y’know, now that I think about it some more, he probably should have put his points into a PowerPoint presentation (or Apache OpenOffice Presentation, if he doesn’t want to pay Bill Gates any more $$). He could export the Excel data into pie or bar charts/histograms, which are then easily exportable to PP. This would be a MUCH more appropriate tool and medium for getting the point across to the female mind, being that it’s infinitely more visual and less abstract.

  119. Josh,

    Okay, maybe someone out there can explain this to me, but isn’t a spreadsheet the perfect format for documenting this kind of problem?

    It is. That is not the problem the world had with what the man did.

    The problem the world had with it is that he had the NERVE to actually account for his wife’s refusals to have sex. As far as the world is concerned, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should he be keeping a record of this because sex with him is on her terms only. If she wants to have sex, he needs to perform (maybe even pop pills to give her what she wants right now.) If she doesn’t want to have sex, too bad for him. If she never wants to have sex ever again, too bad for him.

  120. Opus says:

    @Feeriker

    I would say your analysis is spot on. I had had enough and that was the break. She is indeed long out of my life. So far as I can see she never married (or reproduced) and though I never noticed it at the time, and counting from when she went to University (read a soft Science) to the last I heard of her (in her thirties – I met her when she was twenty-five) she never had a proper boyfriend or LTR. People do not change, their bad characteristics merely become more pronounced. I had a narrow and lucky escape but it is my fault because I have very bad taste in women and was wearing thick Vagina goggles but happily my G.P. tells me I have regained 20/20 vision.

    One of those women who would never want to belong to a club which would have her as a member.

  121. Farm Boy says:

    he probably should have put his points into a PowerPoint presentation

    Actually no. A database would be best. It would allow sorting via “headaches”, ” too tired”, “TV”, etc.

  122. jf12 says:

    A brave new marriage suggestion. Robin Hanson suggests wearing an anti-engagement-ring pin, really more of an anti-White-Feather self-shaming badge:

    http://www.overcomingbias.com/2014/07/bets-as-loyalty-signals.html

    The man has to give up a relative fortune in order to qualify for marriage, thereby proving his loyalty and hers too.

  123. jf12 says:

    I think Spreadsheet Guy’s data deserve the most appropriate visualization.

    http://wtfviz.net/

    Who’s gonna do it?

  124. anonymous_ng says:

    feeriker: Y’know, now that I think about it some more, he probably should have put his points into a PowerPoint presentation…

    Don’t forget the emotionally manipulative music, the cut scenes, and a unicorn jumping over a rainbow.

  125. TFH says:

    Once again :

    If we were to list out the core principles of an advanced, free, and happy society, some of those might be :

    1) Fair and equitable contract law.
    2) Men have some (just some) guarantees of paternity, and some rights in terms of divorce and child custody.
    3) A small and efficient government. The only government employees are those who are absolutely needed to sustain a system that enables a vibrant private sector.
    4) Wealth accumulates to those who generate innovation and productivity.
    5) The primary goal of business is productivity gains.
    6) Basic rights apply to all humans equally. It is not possible to suppress a man’s rights to favor a woman, or vice-versa.
    7) Productive accomplishments earn social status. Criminality does not earn social status, it earns scorn.

    These might be just some of the necessary conditions of an advanced society.

    Yet, we see that as soon as women gain even the most basic freedom to attack *all* of these pillars, they do so with utter ruthlessness. As soon they can, they attack. Not just some of these pillars, but all of them.

    Therefore, the sad conclusion is :

    Civilization requires either a) strict restrictions on women, or b) technology that reduces the power of women. Barring one of these two, civilization ends.

  126. Or are they saying that communicating using well formatted hard data is somehow “wrong”?

    They’re saying that pointing out a woman’s faults is unacceptable, but providing hard evidence of those faults so she can’t weasel out of it is super-unacceptable.

    If you want to see a woman go into a rage, all teeth and claws like a cornered badger, ask her a question (“So, what’d you do last night?”) to which you know she will tell a lie (“Oh, I hung out at Julie’s watching TV.”) and then present her with proof that she’s lying, (“Funny, here’s a video I shot last night of you coming out of your ex-boyfriend’s house with your panties in your hand.”). For extra credit, don’t show your whole hand at once; reveal it piece by piece to counter her changing story. You’ll get a performance worthy of awards; and if you let her, she’ll reframe it until you’re the bad guy for not trusting her (even though you’re holding proof that she’s not trustworthy) and that your lack of trust is so egregious that you deserved to be cheated on. In fact, you made her do it.

    You can see that in all the attacks on spreadsheet guy — what a nerd, how passive-aggressive, he probably sucks in bed, etc. — all designed to disqualify him as a man so her faults and his evidence of them can be ignored.

  127. Novaseeker says:

    The problem, of course, is that him talking to her about his feelings about wanting more sex and how he feels about her near-constant rejection of him would only exacerbate it. She cares not one bit about his feelings; if she did, she’d have more sex with him without his asking for it.

    It’s not only that. It’s also tactical. Women know that, in most cases (yes men with Game are different, but they are also few), when it gets to a discussion that is around feewings, they win. Almost every time.

    So, tactically, they want it to be around feewings. Around “emotional IQ” (a psychological way of saying a man has the equivalent of a small penis, in emotional terms).

    And, of course, that tactical play is not made rationally, but viscerally. That is, women are not thinking “:I can play this my way by making it about emotions”. Rather, they viscerally react to every challenge from a man by making it about emotional aptitude (i.e., the ability to hold one’s own in an emotion-centric confrontation), which of course inherently runs to their advantage.

    It isn’t calculated as much as it is visceral, but it is no less real for being so.

  128. deti says:

    “ It’s also tactical. Women know that, in most cases (yes men with Game are different, but they are also few), when it gets to a discussion that is around feewings, they win. Almost every time.”

    Ha. I’ve seen women very, very close to me play turnabout with factual discussions, and make them all, all, ALL about feewings. We were talking about facts, and then came the volcanic eruption because the facts about her conduct made her feel bad. And I agree it’s not calculated — it is visceral, very much so.

  129. Farm Boy says:

    Women know that, in most cases when it gets to a discussion that is around feewings, they win.

    Yes, this was spreadsheet guy’s real sin, not playing her game.

  130. davidvs says:

    @BradA
    “OT: Anyone my wife is convinced that as many young single men get sex as young single women. Any links on that topic, here or elsewhere?”

    The charts are a good place to start.

    http://www.iub.edu/~kinsey/resources/FAQ.html#frequency

    Single, 18-24 years old, sexless: men 56.9%, women 50.8%
    Partnered, 18-24 years old, sexless: men 26.0%, women 12.9%

  131. TFH says:

    deti,

    Ha. I’ve seen women very, very close to me play turnabout with factual discussions, and make them all, all, ALL about feewings. We were talking about facts, and then came the volcanic eruption because the facts about her conduct made her feel bad. And I agree it’s not calculated — it is visceral, very much so.

    That is natural. It helped women survive in centuries past.

    The tragedy today is that a larger and larger share of the US economy *and* legal system is now oriented towards exactly what you described, and is crowding out more productive economic activity.

  132. “Feelings, not facts, say the women.”

    But if he did talk about his feelings, he’d be “just an angry man” who could be ignored.

  133. jf12 says:

    The crowning touch on the data presentation would be a Weird Al type of song describing his feewings of being turned down and typing up the excuses.

  134. BradA says:

    I don’t know that it is as simple as that deti. We have seen enough bad behavior in our daughters that she will not view women as angels. Though many years of beliefs do take a while to shift for her.

    Tradcon would be a reasonable term for her, heavy FoxNews viewer for example. (I no longer tolerate it as much, except when pointing out the inconsistencies there.)

    She is close to FotF and such, though not as much since I give her commentary on the shows when they are on and I notice something. We were even listening to a show last night where their singles director was on and I noted that she failed to indicate both the pickiness of women in causing marriage to not happen and the fact that the only example they gave was of a man wanting a 9 or 10 when he was a 6.

    It was clear to me many of these women simply did not want or see women earlier. My wife would not have even gone with me (in my view) if God had not stepped in. Many Christian women today have their own variant of the “feminist merit badge” they want to finish before marriage. I bet any of them looked past very viable candidates earlier in life. This makes me question the idea that “God just didn’t bring Mr. Right by” meme that is quite common in singles ministries.

    This half makes me wonder if I should start my own ministry in this area. I am sure I would annoy some here, and a whole lot of blue pill Christians, but who is really presenting a Biblical view of these things?

    My IT-related work might be separate enough that it could survive such, especially since I have no desire to head for the higher echelons and the visibility that brings.

  135. Dalrock says:

    @Freeriker

    “The claim that women don’t care what alpha men think is entirely untrue…”

    Just had to edit that, Dalrock. Critical omission there (which I’m sure was inadvertent).

    It’s observably untrue that women care about what men generically, as the opposite sex thimk of their behavior. Only the 5 to 20 percent of them that are sexually visible and that set off natural attraction triggers have any such leverage at all.

    No, it really isn’t that way. As Opus described, he had a woman who was basically using him as an orbiter (with benefits), whom he lashed out in a fit of admitted beta weakness. There was nothing alpha about it, yet it devastated her. Observe the truth from Opus:

    …I had benefits but I wanted more and on an exclusive basis. Eventually I had had enough and in a regrettable lapse of both taste and temper as she was telling me of yet more sexual escapades to which I had not been sent an invitation I told her that she was ‘a f****** slut’ at which [drumroll] she immediately burst into floods of tears.

    All it takes is for the man to be someone other men respect. So maybe the bottom 30% – 40% don’t matter. Maybe. But either way it isn’t about whether she is attracted to the man. It is probably more about what such a man (or one just like him) might think or say or hint about her to the kind of man she really wants.

    You also have to consider how strong the envy is of ordinary men who are “one of the guys”. This is a status which women simply can’t have, and they can go nuts over this. As I’ve pointed out in a previous post, this is why we must radically rework our armed forces at massive expense.

  136. Gunner Q says:

    greyghost @ 3:47 pm:
    “Dirty little secret

    women get pleasure physical and emotional from sex the same as some guy would. nothing more to add to it.”

    How so? Our society is full of married women who despise sex and won’t even let their husbands touch them… even good-looking guys who’ve learned enough Game to at least give her imagination something to work with. Is that because of their Alpha ghosts? Or do they despise their husbands that much for not measuring up to their artificial sitcom standards? I honestly don’t know.

    If all a Christian wife must do to have a decent marriage and obey God is being frisky for half an hour every other day then why is it a rare woman who actually does so? It sometimes sounds like many women would rather burn in Hell than make a man happy.

  137. Snowy says:

    myrealitie on July 24, 2014 at 7:47 am

    “Yiayia is an old lady without any sexual capital – women in this position very often try to shame younger women as a way to reduce their power. I suspect that this phenomenon accounts for your observation and not the hypothesis that our great grandmothers were morally superior.”

    The f**king arrogance of the modern day prideful slut/twit/twat/attention-seeking whore. Prideful f**ks. Yiayia was likely more beautiful, inside and out, than these boastful modern day losers, who obviously believe they invented beauty. What’s more is that the myrealities of this world (the majority of wymens) believe they’ll maintain their so-called beauty (“sexual capital”) ad-infinitum. They’ll get theirs. Prideful f**ks are not worth the time of day; no real value because they possess no real values.

  138. TFH says:

    Director Stanton says :

    …women left to themselves will develop into good women, more responsible women, just naturally, for various reasons and we could talk about that.

    This is objectively untrue, based on easily observable facts. If anything, it takes a lot more conditioning to keep women civilized, than to keep men civilized.

    Some men become criminals, but a greater number of men just invent things and start ventures just for the fun of it. By contrast, women immediately start attacking any and all pillars of civilization as soon as they gain any freedom to do so.

  139. jf12 says:

    @GunnerQ re: “It sometimes sounds like many women would rather burn in Hell than make a man happy.”

    Only sometimes? Only many?

  140. Boxer says:

    The f**king arrogance of the modern day prideful slut/twit/twat/attention-seeking whore. Prideful f**ks. Yiayia was likely more beautiful, inside and out, than these boastful modern day losers, who obviously believe they invented beauty.

    Yiayia also has the undying love and loyalty of the man who she married, probably as a 17-year old beautiful young girl, and after a lifetime of faithful service to his house, he’d die for her. She also has a large family of sons, sons-in-law, grandsons, etc. All these men would fight to the death for her.

    The modern hoe, in contrast, is hated by all. The slut is rightly judged on the spectrum between *totally useless* and *thoroughly disgusting*. No man of quality would lift a finger to help her, even if she were in dire trouble — and no man should.

    Boxer

  141. Farm Boy says:

    It sometimes sounds like many women would rather burn in Hell than make a man happy

    These women need sammich making therapy. If Obamacare pays for contraceptives, it should pay for that.

  142. TFH says:

    GunnerQ,

    “It sometimes sounds like many women would rather burn in Hell than make a man happy.”

    Satan fits many of the characteristics that we know to generate gina tingles in women.

    You assume women would find hell undesirable. Rather, it is a paradise, because an apex alpha who is great at conducting evil (unlike mere serial killers up here, who get love letters) is easily identified, and has the physical stamina to service billions of women at once.

  143. TFH says:

    Boxer,

    The modern hoe, in contrast, is hated by all. The slut is rightly judged on the spectrum between *totally useless* and *thoroughly disgusting*. No man of quality would lift a finger to help her, even if she were in dire trouble — and no man should.

    I still chortle at how Mizz Brink only got one mangina to come to her aid.

    And where are the ominous ‘social sanctions’ that Adamangina Lee threatened us with? Where are they? I’m waiting. It is always amusing to see a rock-bottom mangina advertise his delusions of social power.

  144. It is probably more about what such a man (or one just like him) might think or say or hint about her to the kind of man she really wants.

    I think it’s also because a woman spends a lot of energy on the balancing act of trying to stand out from the herd enough to attract the best men, while at the same time staying within the herd enough not to draw the wrath of the herd. There’s a routine fear of being seen as TOO different and cast out. So when someone points a finger and says “You slut!” she’s scared that everyone might think so. It’s like one of those nightmares where you’re on stage and suddenly realize you’re naked and everyone’s laughing at you.

  145. Farm Boy says:

    Satan fits many of the characteristics that we know to generate gina tingles in women.

    When the original Star Trek first aired, it was Spock with Satanic point ears that got the most fan mail. By far. From chicks. Who admitted that they loved his ears.

  146. @Boxer
    “Yiayia also has the undying love and loyalty of the man who she married, probably as a 17-year old beautiful young girl, and after a lifetime of faithful service to his house, he’d die for her. She also has a large family of sons, sons-in-law, grandsons, etc. All these men would fight to the death for her.”

    Sounds about right.

    http://www.biblestudytools.com/asv/proverbs/passage.aspx?q=proverbs+31:10-31

  147. Opus says:

    @Dalrock

    Without wishing to talk about myself (I ended it and made her cry – it’s history) my friend with benefits was, I would say, desperate to be one of the guys – she was never popular with the other women: she wanted to be a biker in a biker-gang (even though she had neither a licence to ride nor a bike), a rock guitarist in a rock-band, (even though her musical ability did not stretch beyond awkwardly managing two chords on a guitar) but even as she aspired to be just like a man, she was utterly charming, beautiful, articulate and witty and with a body to die for; a woman at the height of her market value. A perspicacious friend of mine observed that there wasn’t a situation she couldn’t get into that she wouldn’t make the worst of – but let us hope that was a premature judgement.

  148. Gunner Q says:

    Farm Boy @ 5:54pm:
    “These women need sammich making therapy. If Obamacare pays for contraceptives, it should pay for that.”

    Actually, Obamacare does! Here in California I got a newsletter from our Obamacare administration that included easy recipes for the family. No joke. I’ve been raging for a month about the implied micromanagement, not to mention the obvious female-centeredness of the whole mess, but now you’ve made it sound like a good thing.

    At least I can still rage about being forced to buy pediatric dental care for the kids I don’t have. Or I could black-knight a little and take advantage of my free mammograms. Men get breast cancer too!

  149. deti says:

    DeNihilist, 3:31 pm:

    First, I agree that Barb isn’t saying the “how dare you” language. That’s my own histrionic take on the objections and lambasting Spreadsheet Guy is taking in the MSM. According to the conventional wisdom, Spreadsheet Guy is the villain in this little drama because he was cold and uncaring, and he isn’t entitled to sex anyway.

    Second, yes, if we accept the modern view, then Spreadsheet Guy is wrong because he didn’t care about her feelings. (But, she’s wrong too for being rude and splattering their private lives all over the internet.)

  150. feeriker says:

    It sometimes sounds like many women would rather burn in Hell than make a man happy.

    The average married women would indeed rather burn in hell for all eternity than be forced to do anything beyond tolerate the existence of her beta bux husband.

  151. deti says:

    Wow, feeriker. You’ve really become a lot more militant of late.

  152. @Farm Boy

    I’ve never got why Bones, or anyone else, said that the ears being pointed were “satanic” in nature.

  153. Novaseeker says:

    Yiayia also has the undying love and loyalty of the man who she married, probably as a 17-year old beautiful young girl, and after a lifetime of faithful service to his house, he’d die for her. She also has a large family of sons, sons-in-law, grandsons, etc. All these men would fight to the death for her.

    Yes. Even in the US, in these ethnic circles, even if the sons/grandsons etc. also roll their eyes at Yiayia., if *you* cross *their* Yiayia, you are toast. Toast.

    Now I haven’t seen men toasted, but that’s because the entire social vibe is around not permitting that to happen. It creates socially reinforced networks of loyalty. Admittedly, these are tribal in their strongest vein, but in the context of the Church and the ethnic community (of which I am an outsider), it also extends to other tribal Yiayias, at least in situations where tribes are not “at war” with each other.

    It works remarkably well. There are slutty Greek American girls who go completely off the rail, of course. But for a majority of the kids, it works to rein them in at least somewhat. Cultural/tribal/religious pressure all combine.

    And that’s the key. It seems like belts and suspenders when you look at it from 30k feet and say to yourself “WTF?”, as you sip another poor airplane wine on your way to Dubai. But in reality, the belts and suspenders and then another pair of them were required to restrain a primal sexual urge which is otherwise nearly impossible to contain. Yiayia is a part of the virus containment system, and a pretty effective one at that, in the appropriate cultural circle.

  154. Ras Al ghul says:

    “You assume women would find hell undesirable. Rather, it is a paradise, because an apex alpha who is great at conducting evil (unlike mere serial killers up here, who get love letters) is easily identified, and has the physical stamina to service billions of women at once.”

    Ah, but being hell, Satan doesn’t pay any attention to them at all, they are sentenced to an eternity as a lesser beta in high school forever . . . .

  155. Tom C says:

    No one listens to Yiayia in the states anymore because here she opens the top four buttons of her blouse and wears hot pants that fit her like a sausage casing with “Juicy” written across the backside.

  156. deti says:

    This is part of the funny thing with Yiayia. My family’s been in the US since War of 1812 days, and is mostly German. As a result, much of the ethnicity in my family was diluted and Americanized long before I was born. I had grandmothers who could be judgmental and had their own ideas about things, but weren’t so rigid as a yiayia presented here. Plus these are usually present in very large close knit families and that doesn’t describe us.

    The “yiayia” concept as depicted in these commercials is mostly alien (heh) to me. We just didn’t have a family member like this. The closest I can come to it is college when I was dating a girl of Lithuanian extraction and I was presented to the girl’s paternal grandmother (her “nana”), a spry, diminutive woman of about 80 and could still remember the “old country”. I barely passed muster, mainly because I’m not Catholic and because I wasn’t a fiancee. “Eh. He is just your FRIEND. What is this…. ‘boyfriend’? What does this mean? He’s not a boy!” But I was instructed to be very deferential and respectful, and that if Nana did not like me, my relationship with Lithuanian Girl would … not go well. Nana was the matriarch of the family, recently widowed. She had the respect of all family members. No one, but NO ONE, crossed her. (We broke up a little over a year later.)

  157. DeNihilist says:

    Actually, Deti, I don’t think SSG is not wrong at all. All the blame goes onto her for not having the morals to NOT put her dirty laundry onto the net.

    “Love is an act of will” STFU and face your faults openly and with humility woman, is my advice to her.

  158. DeNihilist says:

    ARGH! “I Don’t think SSG is wrong at all”

    That will be all…..

  159. Phillyastro says:

    Albanian women are pretty old fashioned too. Check out the conversation at 1:21 –

  160. Snowy says:

    “Shaming” and “shame” has come up again in these comments. Surely shame requires a conscience? The world at large (the unregenerate) has a seared conscience, burned with a hot iron; how can we expect them to experience shame? And more so, shaming at the hands of the regenerate? Perhaps only through example, but not by being told/called-out.

  161. feeriker says:

    Wow, feeriker. You’ve really become a lot more militant of late.

    Let’s just say that it’s born of recent personal experience.

  162. feeriker says:

    Nana was the matriarch of the family, recently widowed. She had the respect of all family members. No one, but NO ONE, crossed her.

    That’s very common in Southern and Eastern European families. Here in the U.S., other than in second or third generation families of such extraction, you don’t see a strong matriarchal grandmother in most families, rarely nowadays in families of WASP extraction. The closest you might find in American culture today is in large rural families where the extended family IS the community, but even that is in decline. It’s a shame too, given that these women, like Greek yiayias, had tremendous positive influence. Needless to say, today’s grey panthers, now in their seventies, at a minimum, and who came of age as second-wave feminism was in ascendence, are not even remotely fit to carry that torch.

  163. TFH says:

    feeriker,

    It’s a shame too, given that these women, like Greek yiayias, had tremendous positive influence.

    It is not just among Italians, Greeks, and Russian Babushkas. This was the norm in all societies.

    A ‘Yiayia’, who usually had several children and dozens of grandchildren, was always the focal point of arranging marital matches, since all Yiayias did all day was talk with other Yiayias, all of whom knew about 50 teenage boys and girls. Pairing people up for marriage was easy, and it wouldn’t take long for a few Yiayias to compare their knowledge of unmarried teenage boys and girls to pair two of them up.

    Each wedding opened up leads via which to engineer the next marriage, and so on.

  164. Dave says:

    “…women experience most men as “grey”, with only a few standing out “in color” in any given setting….”

    The few men standing out are the real men (not necessarily PUAs or so-called Alphas). Just what used to pass for common men in those days when men were men. Just as there is a dearth of real women in America, so is there a paucity of real men. Most men are betas who cannot inspire anyone.

  165. greyghost says:

    Beta’s are the real men

  166. Novaseeker says:

    The few men standing out are the real men (not necessarily PUAs or so-called Alphas). Just what used to pass for common men in those days when men were men. Just as there is a dearth of real women in America, so is there a paucity of real men. Most men are betas who cannot inspire anyone.

    Eh, no. In terms of evolution, most men were *always* grey. That is eugenic from a purely godless, materialistic, nihilistic point of view.

  167. Lyn87 says:

    A tale of two Yiayia’s:

    On my mother’s side of the family, my great-grandmother was the Latina version of a Yiayia. I never met her, but I heard some stories. Full of wisdom and little tolerance for B.S.. For example, one of the women in the old barrio used to get smacked around by her drunken husband on a regular basis, and she always played for sympathy for a while and then went back to him. No slack from the matriarca… after this cycle repeated itself a few times her response became something along the lines of, “Don’t feel sorry for her – if she didn’t like it she wouldn’t keep going back to him.” And that was in the days LONG before there were women’s shelters on every street corner and white-knight cops playing at being Captain Save-a-Ho, and Duluth was just a city that nobody outside of Minnesota had ever heard of.

    On my father’s side (WASP’s)… not so much. My own grandmother was a harsh woman who ruled some the family with an iron fist, but was so abrasive (and didn’t much care for Mexicans in the family), that the rest of us did not much care what she thought. My mother used to say that she wanted to write the inscription for her tombstone:

    Here lies “Nana.”
    She had four sons,
    but only enough love for two.

    Not all yiayia’s are created equal and, like men – and unlike young women – yiayia’s have to earn respect to command attention. Just being an old woman isn’t enough. A yiayia worthy of the title earned her place as the matriarch by a lifetime of service to husband and family. Not that they were all saints, but a woman who walked all over others her entire life did not get the same consideration as a woman who had lived her life as a married woman should. The last couple of generations don’t look like they’re going to produce many yiayia’s. That’s a shame.

  168. Okay, skipped a bunch to get here. I have a “cleavage” musing. When I encounter older women (post-wall) in my community that display too much I generally avert my eyes. When I don’t (we aren’t talking staring here) they start clawing at their shirts to get covered up. It’s a small town and most of them understand I have been a youth pastor and over the past few years I have established a pretty solid, wide open frame (in my community). Here is the question? Why the modesty? I don’t think I’m creeping them out, it seems almost like shame. Is this really modesty do we think? Shame? Social awkwardness? I have honestly wondered at this (and didn’t want to miss a chance at an on-topic post on Dalrock).

  169. feeriker says:

    The last couple of generations don’t look like they’re going to produce many yiayia’s. That’s a shame.

    Exactly.

  170. Pingback: Yiayia wouldn’t approve | Truth and contr...

  171. Opus says:

    I was just reflecting on this further: she could of course have defended herself, either by saying that her life was none of my concern, or that I was just a loser, or even denied that she was promiscuous, but she did none of those things. Despite her desire to be just like a man, in work, activities outside of work, or sexual freedom, ultimately, her inherent knowledge that promiscuity only lowered her as a woman was too much for her, that she cried – at least that is my explanation. Neither did I then go into White Knight mode and apologise or make excuses for her. That was it.

    I don’t like losing my temper nor am I usually prone to irrational jealousy but I do find that on those few occasions when I lose it, I do so for good reason. The man who remains unconcerned by everything no matter what, is perhaps not so much an Alpha as not really functioning as a human as he attempts to cover for his lack of affectiveness and agency.

  172. tickletik says:

    @Deti

    Well, look at how the announcer treats the women in the video.

    Announcer: “hey how it’s goin?”

    Girl: “blah blah blah… I’m such a happy gir-”

    Announcer: “yeah sure whatever whore, let’s see what Yiaia has to say!”

    Yiaia: “Whore!”

    He cuts them off in mid sentence, with a happy tone so they can’t get their back up. Then he body slams them with Yiaia because SHE can say what he doesn’t dare to say. And look at how the girls in the first video try to cover themselves more with their bikinis.

    I think it’s very clear that Yiaia is the heroine of these videos. This is black knighting.

  173. Opus says:

    I rather like the second video – and the way the announcer cuts the girl off from blathering, to see what Yiayia has to say. Yiayia says the girl LOOKS like a Prostitute. The girl responds speechless and internalises that she had been CALLED a Prostitute – but she does not protest the Freudian slip-of-hearing accusation. The announcer White-Knights and attempts to reassure the girl that she has misheard, but Yiayia follows it up with just one word, all three syllables very clearly enunciated PRO-STI-TUTE [in close-up]. Still no response from the girl. Then Yiayia beats the carpet – so we know what she would like to be beating over her knee and the announcer tells the girl not to worry because Yiayia does approve of the yogurt.

    These ads appear to have hit an American nerve. Have they been pulled, yet.

  174. Oscar says:

    Yiayia reminds me of my abuelita. She never attended a day of school, never read the Bible for herself (her daughters read it to her), but she was one of the wisest, most godly women I’ve ever known.

    All us grandkids loved her intensely, but we also feared her (she was deadly with a chancleta or a tajona).

  175. theasdgamer says:

    OT comment

    Since a lot of Christian men have sex-denial issues, I thought that I would post some questions I have on the ethics of active Dread.

    I know that the predominant view in the Christian community is that threatening to cheat is wrong. In order to break a five-year sex strike, I threatened to cheat. I never actually cheated, but I went out dancing without Mrs. Gamer. Mrs. Gamer went through a few months of stress and frequent insecurity tests. Now she seems very happy and much more submissive. Mrs. Gamer is always making sammiches! She has been reading about what men want!!!! Mrs. Gamer has been going by herself to a church counselor. She sees herself as trying to save our marriage. Mrs. Gamer is now strongly attracted to me. Sex-denial hasn’t surfaced much in months. We have fewer fights and the fights tend to be less severe. The Fakk/Fight ratio is very solid. If threatening to cheat is wrong, yet produces such excellent results, then we should all do more of such wrong. Do the ends justify the means? When the means produce good results, then do the means amount to “cherishing and nurturing?” Maybe active Dread in fact amounts to “cherishing and nourishing” if the marital relationship has broken down. Very counter-intuitive, for sure.

  176. Dalrock says:

    @GIL

    When I encounter older women (post-wall) in my community that display too much I generally avert my eyes. When I don’t (we aren’t talking staring here) they start clawing at their shirts to get covered up. It’s a small town and most of them understand I have been a youth pastor and over the past few years I have established a pretty solid, wide open frame (in my community). Here is the question? Why the modesty? I don’t think I’m creeping them out, it seems almost like shame. Is this really modesty do we think? Shame? Social awkwardness?

    Just a SWAG, but to me the tip off is that this only happens when you don’t avert your eyes. It would seem to me that if the issue was suddenly realizing that she was inappropriately dressed by the presence of a known upright man (with the potential to judge), this would happen more subtly, and it would happen independent of your actual gaze. I would expect that seeing you would lead them to be more self conscious, maybe fidget and readjust the neckline as if it has suddenly and unwantedly fallen lower than intended (this darn blouse, what is it doing?), find an excuse to either exit or not get too close, etc.

    While it isn’t impossible that they don’t realize they are inappropriately dressed until you are looking right at them, since you aren’t staring this seems unlikely. It seems more like she is dangling some bait, but knows once she can confirm that you have seen it (mission accomplished, payload delivered) that she needs to put on a sudden show of modesty.

    The other possibility is that you are wincing and not aware of it. Like I said above, trauma can cause all sorts of things. But my guess is still mission accomplished, now feign modesty.

  177. Well, my mother always told me I have a very emotive face. All of the registering I do probably makes me an open book. Oh well, in this case it helps.

  178. Oscar says:

    theasdgamer says:
    July 25, 2014 at 9:21 am

    “Since a lot of Christian men have sex-denial issues, I thought that I would post some questions I have on the ethics of active Dread.

    I know that the predominant view in the Christian community is that threatening to cheat is wrong. In order to break a five-year sex strike, I threatened to cheat.”

    If you threatened to cheat and had no intention of cheating, you…
    1. Lied, and…
    2. Made an empty threat

    The first is a sin (Exodus 20:16). The second is dangerous and simply a bad idea. One should never make a threat one does not intend to carry out, because if the person you threaten calls your bluff, you end up looking like Pres Obama and his “red line”.

    If you threatened to cheat and intended to cheat, you intended to commit adultery, which is also a sin (Exodus 20:14). Intending to commit adultery is not the same as actually committing adultery, but God “judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart” (Hebrews 4:12), not just our actions.

    It also means that you lied when you promised to “forsake all others”, which brings us right back to Exodus 20:16.

    I’m sincerely glad that your marriage has improved, but you can’t logically defend threatening to cheat from a perspective of Biblical morality. Furthermore, that a method worked (once) doesn’t necessarily make that method moral. In fact, one of the best definitions of sin I’ve heard is satisfying our God-given needs via methods contrary to His will (sex outside of marriage, for example).

    Both Dalrock and Cane Caldo have written about what to do from a Biblical perspective (as have others, I’m sure), so I won’t get into that. I highly recommend their advice on the subject to any man suffering from this problem.

    Of course, if a man doesn’t care about Biblical morality, that is an entirely different matter, which I’ll not address.

  179. Ah, maybe I’ve given them the space by regularly averting my eyes and when I don’t do it then they get nervous, like I reneged on an unspoken social contract. I generally am thinking when I stop averting “What are you thinking? And what are you trying to accomplish?” Not so much disgust (I deal with older men and women in even less state of dress when the are ill) but more like I can’t keep the above questions off my face.

  180. Great Books For Men GreatBooksForMen GBFM (TM) GB4M (TM) GR8BOOKS4MEN (TM) lzozozozozlzo (TM) says:

    hey dalrockasz! what is a christian jew?

    “Mark says:
    July 24, 2014 at 1:23 am
    @GBFM

    After reading your posts for quite some time now(deciphering your posts). I suspect that you are a “Christian Jew”???……..Correct?”

    da gbfm has never heard the term “christian jew”. what is it, what does it mean, and why does your flock think dat da GBFM is a “christian jew?”

    alsom was jesus christ a “christian jew?” according to da flock? or something else entirely? lzlzolzolz

  181. tbc says:

    Yaiyai has never left her village Dalrock. She knows everyone in town but she has never wandered more than 2 miles from her place of birth. So of course, you can’t look like a slut in the village if you are never going to leave it because everyone will remember. But if you can be REBORN an almost virgin in a NEW VILLAGE (where no one knew of you) then the Hell with what Yaiyai thinks. Let her and her socializing comments rot in her old village. Yes you can’t reconstruct your hymen, but you can reboot your N count back down to 1 with any story that you want.

    I wonder if the rise of social media and the semi-permanence of the net may be eroding this ‘start all over in a new place’ phenomena since it only takes a few searches to suss out that the woman playing miss modest I’m ready to settle down and be a housewife is really a graduate of the post-wall carousel school of hard …..

  182. Oscar says:

    Holy crap! Matt Walsh actually wrote an article calling women hypocrites for indulging in mommy porn!

    http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/07/25/women-america-4-reasons-hate-50-shades-grey/

    Yes, he still gets a lot wrong. Baby steps, my friends. Baby steps.

  183. imnobody00 says:

    The last couple of generations don’t look like they’re going to produce many yiayia’s. That’s a shame.

    Not even in the old countries. Being from Spain, I remember my yiayia (even Spaniards use this word to refer to the grandma but it is spelled “yaya” or “iaia”) and she was and dressed like in the commercial. I think Italian yiayias were the same. It’s amazing how much Mediterranean cultures are similar.

    When I was a kid, there were a lot of yiayias in my hometown. Not anymore. Today’s old ladies want to be modern and have relinquished the role and the respect (they don’t try to become old sluts yet, though). The society has moved on, because we have been indoctrinated with liberal propaganda for the last 40 years.

    But believe me, I lived the so-called “patriarchy” when I was a kid and a teenager. And it was a beautiful society, much better than the mess we have now. I thank God to having been raised in such a society. It was a privilege.

  184. feeriker says:

    Holy crap! Matt Walsh actually wrote an article calling women hypocrites for indulging in mommy porn!

    More likely his password was hacked and his blog account compromised. My hat is off to whomever pulled that off and managed to sneak this article through as “Matt Walsh” (imagine an article endorsing biblical marriage precepts appearing under Roosh’s byline. Same idea.)

  185. Anonymous Reader says:

    Holy crap! Matt Walsh actually wrote an article calling women hypocrites for indulging in mommy porn!

    And he’s getting a tsunami of pushback from women. Garsh, I wonder how he’ll explain this to himself, as a notorious pedestalizer it surely has to be a shock.

    One comment inadvertently revealed an unpleasant truth: “This book (50 Shades) is no different than the romance novels your grandmother reads”. And that’s true, to a large extent. Anyone who doubts this can test it at the nearest large chain book store: go to the RomFic section and start skimming books. In the vast majority of cases, by the time you reach page 50 or so you will have found at least one very explicit, detailed, sex scene.

    So, yes, 50 Shades is not all that different from more prosaic “romance” fiction. Anyone who wishes to argue that, well, words on a page about strangers having sexual intercourse are just not as bad (sinful in the Bible context) as images of strangers having sexual intercourse — knock yourselves out. Don’t hold back, justify the claim in any way you wish.

    Perhaps Matt “Married for Three Whole Years, Thus Knows It All” Walsh may learn something about the real nature of women from this.

  186. davidvs says:

    @innocentbystanderboston

    “When he was (maybe) 10 feet from him the young man, stopped, turned and looked at him and said ‘…if you touch me, touch her, you go to jail and I will sue your fucking ass!’ He flipped him off again (so did his girlfriend) and the two of them turned around and just kept walking. The man who got out of his car just stood there in complete shock, in total capitulation.”

    What would an appropriate non-capitulation response be?

    Since the young man was acting out to demonstrate toughness (provider ability) for the young woman, perhaps attempting to take her away? “Honey, he is young, poor, and an a*hole. I’m old, mature, wealthy, and an a*hole. We both know he would take you back if you do not find me more satisfying and exciting. Come, get in my car.”

    The offer would be refused, but it would be a non-capitulatory reply that would leave them the concerned party in the encounter.

  187. Oscar says:

    Anonymous Reader says:
    July 25, 2014 at 12:49 pm

    “One comment inadvertently revealed an unpleasant truth: “This book (50 Shades) is no different than the romance novels your grandmother reads”. And that’s true, to a large extent.”

    I’ve never read one (vomit!), but I’m inclined to agree.

    Incidentally, it just occurred to me that I’m as revolted by mommy porn as most women claim to be by porn intended for men. I’d never thought of that before.

    Anyway, the comments on Walsh’s blog are so stupid that I can’t read many of them, but one I read was from a woman whining that women don’t have as many outlets to “blow off that kind of steam” as men do (porn, strip clubs, etc.). Riiiiiiiiiiiighhhhht….

    “Garsh, I wonder how he’ll explain this to himself, as a notorious pedestalizer it surely has to be a shock… Perhaps Matt “Married for Three Whole Years, Thus Knows It All” Walsh may learn something about the real nature of women from this.”

    I was about to say, “no chance”, but hey, we all got our wake-up call somehow. For me it was harsh experience as a young man. Maybe this’ll be Walsh’s wake-up call. One can hope. He has a large (mostly female) readership. It would be great to see him begin to address these issues more.

  188. Snowy says:

    If, in referring to Dalrock’s “flock”, da GBFM means people who read Dalrock’s posts and who may or may not pass comment, then da GBFM must be one of the flock.

  189. Pingback: Slow your roll | Dalrock

  190. Anonymous Reader says:

    Oscar, I learned this about modern romfic [1] some five or so years back. A aging bachelor I had known for years was dying of something incurable, and a number of us tried to do what we could. Helping to clean up his house I ran across a 3-foot high stack of various romfic – duh? This ain’t what you usta read. He shrugged. It was funny to him, distracted him, and so there you go. So I picked one up and looked through it. Somewhere around page 45, sex scene. Repeated around page 100. Duh? “Oh, I just skip that part, it’s never plot anyway”.
    So I looked through some more, by different authors. Same deal, some text along the lines of “Letters to Penthouse” regularly spaced in the book.

    Talked to a woman I knew back then who ran the little library in her church. She was embarrassed to have a man even mention it, but acknowledge that “many romance books are not appropriate for a church library”.

    Test it at the local big box Barnes & Noble for yourself. This is not something I made up.

    [1] I’m aware that on some level, “LIttle Women” is romfic, as are more recent works such as Georgette Heyer. I respectfully suggest there’s a difference between the “making marriages between compatible couples” fiction of the 19th century through mid-20th, and modern romfic.

    PS: I’m informed semi reliably that in the 3rd volume of “Grey”, she gets to keep him. So this whole exercise, originally started as fanfic by Twilight readers, has become the ultimate in female porn: dominance by a mysterious, powerful stranger, submission to him in all ways especially sexual, followed in time by….Taming the Alpha Stranger. It is a slice of the Female Imperative laid bare for anyone to see, who knows what they are looking at.

  191. DeNihilist says:

    Hmmm

    http://www.mommyish.com/2012/09/17/fifty-shades-of-grey-child-abuse-597/

    Very interesting take on the 50 trilogy. Had never heard of this take before.

  192. BradA says:

    The problem for those 25-year olds is that they will eventually meet someone who doesn’t give a hoot more than themselves and then they may be the ones found murdered in their home or such. They are like the PUAs having sex with as many as they can. They exploit the fall of civilized society to their own benefit, but it will eventually have no loyalty to them either.

  193. Dalrock says:

    @Anon Reader

    Holy crap! Matt Walsh actually wrote an article calling women hypocrites for indulging in mommy porn!

    And he’s getting a tsunami of pushback from women. Garsh, I wonder how he’ll explain this to himself, as a notorious pedestalizer it surely has to be a shock.

    Perhaps Matt “Married for Three Whole Years, Thus Knows It All” Walsh may learn something about the real nature of women from this.

    I thought you guys were maybe exaggerating the amount of pushback he got on this post. Wow. No exaggeration. His audience went from adoring him with the “please please please believe me when I tell you that you are beautiful” to wanting to scratch his eyes out when he called out mommy porn. That had to be stunning. The question is, what will he learn from this? He could learn not to make the mistake of holding women accountable again, or learn that women are fallen, just like men.

  194. theasdgamer says:

    @ Oscar

    “Since a lot of Christian men have sex-denial issues, I thought that I would post some questions I have on the ethics of active Dread.

    I know that the predominant view in the Christian community is that threatening to cheat is wrong. In order to break a five-year sex strike, I threatened to cheat.”

    If you threatened to cheat and had no intention of cheating, you…
    1. Lied, and…
    2. Made an empty threat

    The first is a sin (Exodus 20:16). The second is dangerous and simply a bad idea. One should never make a threat one does not intend to carry out, because if the person you threaten calls your bluff….

    Ex. 20:16 prohibits false accusation, not lying in general. It’s not applicable to active Dread.

    You said that I “made an empty threat.” However, Mrs. Gamer has no way to know if my threat is empty and no way to call my bluff. It works no matter what. You should know this with a little thought.

  195. JDG says:

    Yiayia on pool parties has become one of my favorite videos.

    I kind of like this one too:

  196. Tam the Bam says:

    “If, in referring to Dalrock’s “flock”, da GBFM means people who read Dalrock’s posts and who may or may not pass comment, then da GBFM must be one of the flock. “
    O no way man, he means the baroque plush wallpaper of the kebab shop he last passed out in.

    BTW da GBFM, I managed to catch a gratebigfuckoffchunkofabook “Iliad” by Robert Fagthing in the Cancer Shop for three quid, (seriously man it’s as thick as my site boots top to toe) which is an improvement on my mum’s fallen to bits paperback copies of the Graves’ effort (since like sixty years or something, 1/-6d). Any good? Keeping it in the back of the truck ATM for when “roadworks” strike (which is until the next snows, ASAISYAU).

  197. Tam the Bam says:

    O what am I like eh? Not Graves. The delightful E V Rieu

    Rieu became best known for his lucid translations of Homer and for a modern translation of the four Gospels … he had been a lifelong agnostic, his experience translating the Gospels brought him to change and join the Church of England ..
    “The inspiration for the Penguin Classics series, initially faint, came early in the Second World War, while bombs were falling. Each night after supper, Rieu would sit with his wife and daughters in London and translate to them passages from the Odyssey.”

    And it was two bob for the Odyssey, four and six for the first half of Graves’s “Myths” and (mystifyingly) three and six for the backarsend ‘o thon ( I mean, it’s just as thick as the other yin piled up here by my elbow).
    A great man. Probably forgotten. Ay well ..

  198. Oscar says:

    theasdgamer says:
    July 26, 2014 at 6:47 pm

    “Ex. 20:16 prohibits false accusation, not lying in general. It’s not applicable to active Dread.”

    Are you arguing that the Bible condones deceit? Just in case you are:

    Leviticus 19:11 ‘You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie to one another.’

    Psalm 119:163 I hate and abhor lying,
    But I love Your law.

    Proverbs 12:22 Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord,
    But those who deal truthfully are His delight.

    Proverbs 13:5 A righteous man hates lying,
    But a wicked man is loathsome and comes to shame.

    John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

    Colossians 3:9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds

    Revelation 22:15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

    That was a brief overview of what God thinks about lying, deceit, falsehood – whatever you want to call it. You should get the picture.

    “You said that I ‘made an empty threat’.”

    No. What I ACTUALLY wrote was that IF you threatened to cheat and had no intention of cheating, you lied (see above) and made an empty threat. Did you?

    “However, Mrs. Gamer has no way to know if my threat is empty…”

    She doesn’t need to know. That is the nature of dealing with those who bluff.

    “…and no way to call my bluff. It works no matter what.”

    You threatened her with the intent to change her behavior. She could have called your bluff by refusing to change her behavior, or making her behavior even worse.

    “You should know this with a little thought.”

    Got any mirrors handy?

    So, were you lying when you threatened to cheat, or were you lying when you promised to “forsake all others”?

  199. Opus says:

    Headline in today’s Mail:

    ‘Defence Minister brands woman author a Slut’ – all in thumping Caps Lock of course.

    I read on. Michael Fallon the Defence Minister went to a party and was seen touching a woman author. I was shocked. He has apologised for using an inappropriate term but denies using the word ‘slut’; [perhaps he means 'author'] At least he does not seem to have made her cry.

    Half the time, with The Mail, women are strong and empowered and fit to be the Captain of a Royal Navy Frigate just like men and the rest of the time any suggestion that sexual promiscuity is on their mind is treated as an offence to the entire female sex.

    Speaking of female members of The Royal Navy, The Mail reported yesterday that the first female captain of a Royal Navy Frigate was relieved of her command for sleeping with a hunky young rating. She is obviously not a slut as she only slept with one sailor even though as a divorced forty-two year old Divorcee The Royal Navy might have concluded that she might be a Cougar in training and that her appointment might not thus be a good idea for morale aboard ship.

    ‘You look Pro – Sti – Tute Captain’.
    ‘No Yiayia would never say that’.

  200. tickletik says:

    @Opus

    You said exactly what I was trying to say, but much much better!

  201. feeriker says:

    Speaking of female members of The Royal Navy, The Mail reported yesterday that the first female captain of a Royal Navy Frigate was relieved of her command for sleeping with a hunky young rating. She is obviously not a slut as she only slept with one sailor even though as a divorced forty-two year old Divorcee The Royal Navy might have concluded that she might be a Cougar in training and that her appointment might not thus be a good idea for morale aboard ship.

    Back when I was on active duty in the U.S. Navy I had the pleasure of working closely witb some of my professional counterparts in the Royal Navy, one of whom was a Charge Chief Petty Officer with thirty years of service behind him. He regaled me with several horror stories of his interactions with female RN officers (which at first I was tempted to dismiss, because I found it impossible to believe that any female officers in any other navy were more abominable than those that curse the U.S. Navy with their presence). He slso told me that if the RN ever began putting female officers in command at sea before he reached the 40-year mark, he would leave active service as soon as he could, because there was NO WAY IN HELL (his exact words) that any female captain would ever do anything but lead a ship’s crew to death, disaster, and tragedy. Apparently this women mentioned in your post was on her way to accomplishing at least one of those three things before her own biological hardwiring tripped her up and brought her down before her incompetence did (not sure the hapless remaining sailors of the RN can count on such good fortune in the future).

    I lost contact with this Charge Chief shipmate, so I have no idea if he ever made good on his threat to leave active service now that gender politics in the British miltary establishment has overridden common sense past the point of no return (and yes, the U.S. military isn’t far behind). This year, I believe, would’ve been his 40-year mark. What a tragedy to see one of the world’s mightiest navies commit suicide after over four centuries of glory.

  202. theasdgamer says:

    @ Oscar

    Your original scriptural reference has been shown to be inapplicable and now you use a shotgun approach? Then you use a silly sidestep of my point about making an empty threat?

    Deal honestly with my arguments like I do with yours and we’ll continue this convo.

  203. theasdgamer says:

    Scripture clearly disapproves of lying to accomplish murder, theft, adultery, idolatry, etc. Scripture does not explicitly condemn lying to protect/help people (e.g., Rahab’s lies to protect Israel’s scouts). We always have to consider context and generally-understood applications.

    Lying/deceit when selling was the typical application which was abhorred in the OT (e.g., Oscar’s Lev. & Prov. references). NT references to lying typically refer to theological errors or false accusations.

  204. Oscar says:

    @theasdgamer

    “Scripture does not explicitly condemn lying to protect/help people (e.g., Rahab’s lies to protect Israel’s scouts).”

    Let me get this straight: you think scripture condones you lying to your wife about your intent to cheat on her?

  205. theasdgamer says:

    @ Oscar

    “Scripture does not explicitly condemn lying to protect/help people (e.g., Rahab’s lies to protect Israel’s scouts).”

    Let me get this straight: you think scripture condones you lying to your wife about your intent to cheat on her?

    Your question is unclear. Both possibilities are interesting and worth addressing. I’ll restate with each reading.

    1. Does scripture condone lying to your wife so as to hide your intent to cheat on her?

    Here, lying is done with the intent of abetting doing harm to the wife through adultery. Scripture condemns this practice.

    2. Does scripture condone lying to your wife so as to deceive her into thinking that you intend to cheat on her when in fact you are not?

    Here, motive is key. If the plan is merely to cause mental distress without any benefit to the wife, then scripture condemns this. However, if the plan is to benefit/save the marriage, this produces a benefit to the wife. Scripture implicitly condones Rahabs lies and we are justified in following Rahab’s example of the Good Lie. Hence, I think that we must allow that there can be cases where deceiving one’s wife is justified if it ends up benefiting her.

  206. Oscar says:

    theasdgamer says:
    July 28, 2014 at 9:50 am

    “2. Does scripture condone lying to your wife so as to deceive her into thinking that you intend to cheat on her when in fact you are not?”

    Yes, that was my question.

    “Here, motive is key. If the plan is merely to cause mental distress without any benefit to the wife, then scripture condemns this. However, if the plan is to benefit/save the marriage, this produces a benefit to the wife. Scripture implicitly condones Rahabs lies and we are justified in following Rahab’s example of the Good Lie. Hence, I think that we must allow that there can be cases where deceiving one’s wife is justified if it ends up benefiting her.”

    You know, I’ve always argued that “dread game” makes a man a liar, and that the only way a Christian man could justify using “dread game” is to distort the Scriptures in order to rationalize his sin of deception.

    I had no idea, however, that the self-delusion would extend to conflating a man’s sin of deceiving his wife with Rahab’s (a member of the Hebrews 11 hall of faith) deception of Israel’s enemies. Next you’ll tell me that deceiving your wife is an act on par with Corrie Ten Boom lying to the Nazis about hiding Jews.

    But I guess it makes sense that a deceiver would excel at deceiving himself.

    You did more to prove my point than I ever could. Thanks!

  207. theasdgamer says:

    @ Oscar

    You know, I’ve always argued that “dread game” makes a man a liar, and that the only way a Christian man could justify using “dread game” is to distort the Scriptures in order to rationalize his sin of deception.

    How can Dread make a man a liar since “all men are liars”? Are you not a man?

    I had no idea, however, that the self-delusion would extend to conflating a man’s sin of deceiving his wife with Rahab’s

    Apparently self-delusion extends to a man thinking that he isn’t a liar.

    But I guess it makes sense that a deceiver would excel at deceiving himself.

    Quite right. Have a nice day.

  208. Opus says:

    @Feeriker

    All of which reminds me of alleged signals between two senior commanders, from our respective Navies; the first from the American Commander and the reply from the British:

    ‘How does it feel to belong to the second largest Navy in the world?’.
    ‘How does it feel to belong to the second best?’.

    I recently watched the movie Battle of the River Plate (1956); which as you will surely recall involved H.M.S. Achilles, Ajax and Exeter attacking The Graf Spey outside Montevideo. I must say, despite its realism (H.M.S. Achilles – and H.M.S. Cumberland which also turns up – play themselves) it is very odd to see the British ships attacking what looks to me like a small Iowa (in fact the U.S.S. Salem – standing in for the scuttled Graf Spey) flying a swastika. I cannot see a woman coping with the responsibilities of either Commodores Harwood or – especially – Langsdorff, or Captains Woodhouse and Bell.

  209. Pingback: Frigidity and power. | Dalrock

  210. chokingonredpills says:

    Meanwhile, in Singapore…

  211. chokingonredpills says:

    And another one:

    We don’t have nudist beaches here, but that’s not stopping our women here from being a bit creative when it comes to sunbathing spots…

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