Cane drives it home.

Check out Cane Caldo’s excellent post on the topic of young women finding a husband.  Neither Saved Nor Spent, But Invested

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212 Responses to Cane drives it home.

  1. Cane Caldo says:

    Thanks for the link and discussion!

  2. LiveFearless says:

    fathers… they are disparaging all the young men in their churches Yes because the churches are controlled by requirements to maintain 501c3 status. The churches force feed the versions of the same narratives that have rained on all other popular content that’s embedded in subconscious thought through all programming seen on any screen including the one you carry in your hand – the same programming is everywhere even as you drive your car along the road.

    And the post assumes that fathers are in churches. That’s news.

    He’s correct about the ridiculous stuff they say. It’s not just the ‘fathers’ saying those things.

    They don’t have a degree – Some of the most successful people I personally know do not have a degree. They skipped the brainwash & followed their real purpose. Now they have time and resource freedom to spend more quality time with family. They don’t have a good enough job says the father that trades time for money at his job rather than providing opportunity to talented people that do meaningful work which creates profit. They don’t have “godly enough” parents. says the father that has made his god, or idol, a building with people that are paid to spread versions of the narrative, destroying the whole world. They don’t have “a heart for Jesus”. says the father in a church (a building with ‘money changers’)

  3. MycroftJones says:

    I’m now adding Cane to my blogroll. Also, some of the commenters add real value to his article too. Cane, please never delete your blog or the comments! I have a 12 year old daughter and she is starting to become aware of boys and enjoying the attention.

  4. gdgm+ says:

    At the risk of seeming contrarian, I’d have to say ‘meh’ to Cane’s post. To people in Cane’s world, his thoughts make sense, but to those *not* as involved in his world (perhaps his daughter?!), not so much. When I was searching for ‘ring by spring’ on the previous Dalrock thread, this article also came up for me. The writer is attending Baylor U in Texas:

    20, Single, and Childless.

    On the one hand, the writer doesn’t have a child out of wedlock; but otherwise she is *not* signaling for marriage… at least not yet.

    …They have voiced to me that must live a sad and lonely life because not only do I not have children, but I currently don’t have a boyfriend. Actually it’s quite the opposite. I’m living in the peace that God has an infintely greater plan for me than I could ever imagine. I’m not desperate for a relationship- I’d rather have a really good one than 20 bad ones and 2 baby daddys. Yes, I know that relationships can fail even with good intentions, but as long as I live my life with open hands and the knowledge that God gives and takes for the better I’m golden. I know quite a few people who just settle for whatever comes their way. As humans we are too easily pleased.

    If Cane’s daughter is hearing that message instead of his, it could be an issue.

  5. 30words says:

    I rarely (virtually never) disagree with Cane’s substance but the way he goes about getting there is usually distasteful- calculated to be off putting even. Please don’t teach your daughters to signal interest by pawing strange men. Was the article written so CC could brag about a waitress flirting with him?

  6. 30words,

    Cane is NOT my favorite poster here at Dalrock’s but I am going to defend him here for just a moment, just this case. His point was not about bragging or showing his daughter that he could get random girl waitresses to flirt with him. His point was explaining to his daughter how important it is for women who notice that men are noticing them that (if they are interested in his pursuit) to reciprocate. It is the woman’s responsibility to let the man know that his desire is welcome. She did so by touching him and spending time talking to him even in the presence of his daughter.

  7. Johnycomelately says:

    This cuts against the grain, the premise is that young Christian girls are shy retiring violets which couldn’t be further from the truth.

    This is the most narcissistic and self promoting generation that man kind has ever produced, Facebook, instagram, selfies, mobile phones etc.

    Fathers like to think their special ones are oblivious to the machinations of the world, that they are so thoroughlusing imbued with chastity that they need special instructions to overcome their frigid and virginesque states.

    The more cerebral spherians previously mentioned that the next phase of the play would be ‘girl game’, I guess this is one of its manifestations.

    “Wow. That could be so awkward. What if he doesn’t respond?”
    It would be terrible to be rejected by the Alpha bad boy, so thoroughly horrible to realize ones SMV rank, of course the beta schlub would respond but that is by the bye.

  8. thecivilizationalist says:

    OT,
    I’ve created a new post in my blog: http://humancivilizations.wordpress.com/2013/12/11/the-benefits-of-socially-enforced-monogamy/
    My blog will explore the things that have to come together to make a civilization work.
    I’d really appreciate feedback from Dalrock and others about my new post. Thanks in advance!

  9. Have to agree with Johnycomelately, chances are the daughter will have zero problem touching the shoulder and otherwise chasing around Mr. Alpha.

    Of course, neither do any of the other girls.

    Mr. Alpha has zero incentive to settle down, because he can have as many as he wants. Hypergamy 101. How many more times do we have to go over this?

    Princess will have to “settle” for a “beta.” But, she doesn’t want to, and even if she does, Beta would be crazy to sign up for the almost certainly coming future divorce. So, spinsterhood or join Mr. Alpha’s harem.

    Game over.

  10. Cane Caldo says:

    Why aren’t these great comments being left at my blog?

    @

    The writer is attending Baylor U in Texas:

    That’s all you have to know to suss out a main problem with this girl’s experience. Baylor gave up the pretense of being a Christian school to everyone except Christians way back in the 90s. I wouldn’t send my children there. Make that: I won’t send my children anywhere.

    I rarely (virtually never) disagree with Cane’s substance but the way he goes about getting there is usually distasteful- calculated to be off putting even.

    I try to use my emoticons sparingly, but this merits a
    :D

    Please don’t teach your daughters to signal interest by pawing strange men. Was the article written so CC could brag about a waitress flirting with him?

    y u jelly?

    @Johnny

    This cuts against the grain, the premise is that young Christian girls are shy retiring violets which couldn’t be further from the truth.

    This is the most narcissistic and self promoting generation that man kind has ever produced, Facebook, instagram, selfies, mobile phones etc.

    I agree with you, and I briefly addressed this in my post. Perhaps I should expound on what you’re seeing.

    Fathers like to think their special ones are oblivious to the machinations of the world, that they are so thoroughlusing imbued with chastity that they need special instructions to overcome their frigid and virginesque states.

    What in the world are you complaining about, here?

    The more cerebral spherians previously mentioned that the next phase of the play would be ‘girl game’, I guess this is one of its manifestations.

    No. Game and Girl Game have always existed. The signals have been thoroughly (and purposefully) mixed-up that know many folks don’t know how to use them at all. Of Christians in particular, they either throw up their hands in surrender to the culture, or they try to lock their kids away.

    “Wow. That could be so awkward. What if he doesn’t respond?”
    It would be terrible to be rejected by the Alpha bad boy, so thoroughly horrible to realize ones SMV rank, of course the beta schlub would respond but that is by the bye.

    Woe is us. If only someone were out there; directing women to notice and engage the good but shy Betas and beware the bad but tempting Alphas…

    Wait…That’s me! We’re saved!

  11. jf12 says:

    It’s an inarguable foundational truth that the young women who exhibit the most problematic behavior, including of course flirting with inappropriate men, have major daddy issues. Typically in the most modern few generations those issues were caused by her mother leaving her father. But in prior generations those issues were caused by her father reluctantly allowing her too much free rein with bad boys usually at the demand, not to say request, of his wife.

  12. Christians 4 Christ! says:

    “At the same time these fathers are acting out strange perversions of the modern courtship model, they are disparaging all the young men in their churches. They don’t have a degree. They don’t have a good enough job. They don’t have “godly enough” parents. They don’t have “a heart for Jesus”. It’s all bullshit. While Christian women are taught that Jesus is their personal boyfriend, Christian men are taught that they are the guardians of Jesus’ personal girlfriends; to let one of them be touched by a mortal is anathema. I was a 6’4″ 225lbs two-sport athlete; at church every day but Friday and Saturday; president of the youth council and the youth choir; son of a minister; personally led people to the Lord; had preached a sermon…and I still wasn’t good enough.”

    And this is why Anna Sofia (age 30) and Elizabeth Botkin (age 28) are not married yet, despite having their father pray over their ovaries when they were newborns that they would “sire millions”.

    Daddy just doesn’t want to let them go. I think its because they are so beautiful and charming. Have you seen Mrs. Botkin? Can’t really blame the guy. I bet anything that if his daughters were homely looking he’d have married them off by 20.

    Their combination of good looks and smarts has created a financial empire for the Botkin family. Were they to marry, the remaining Botkins might become poor.

  13. Cane Caldo says:

    @C4C

    I still wasn’t good enough.

    That really made me angry in those days. Most of those hoops I jumped through were meaningless. Part of it was because I’m a go-getter; I like to win even at stupid things like presidencies of inconsequential youth groups of inconsequential churches in inconsequential cities. But another part of it was that those men designed those things to be explicit markers of achievement, and therefore implicit pathways to respect. I bowed to their rigamarole, and those men still left me out to dry; matrimonially speaking.

  14. Dads wanted their little girls to remain eleven years old forever. Simple as that Cane.

  15. Jeremy says:

    That’s a great example of a father teaching his daughter what she needs to know. Double-shocked that it was a christian man.

  16. And this is why Anna Sofia (age 30) and Elizabeth Botkin (age 28) are not married yet

    Just saw their picture from seven years ago; the light-haired one has crazy eyes.

  17. Ashley lakes says:

    In the last few threads there were men and women who were seeking a spouce.

    For people seeking a spouce, would you consider an arranged marriage?

  18. Beryl says:

    Oh stop with the “daddy issues” myth please. You all make idols out of fathers when you say that a female has problems because of a lack of a father. Girls don’t need their dads that bad. Stop it. And mom is the daughter’s parent too you know and the one who gave birth to her.

  19. MarcusD says:

    Oh stop with the “daddy issues” myth please.

    Do you have a source for that?

  20. Marissa says:

    “You all make idols out of fathers when you say that a female has problems because of a lack of a father. ”

    It is the truth, not adolatry. Single mothers statistically raise the worse trash in society, male or female. It’s a constant in criminality and promiscuity.

  21. TFH says:

    Wow, if Return of Kings has done a detailed demolition of Jenny ‘the Chin’ Erikson, she is doomed.

    The androsphere is finally starting to inflict real costs. It is about friggin’ time.

  22. Boxer says:

    Do you have a source for that?

    Sigmund Freud wrote all about single parents and the damage they inflict on children. There really isn’t one single source, he mentions it literally all throughout the entire body of his work. Pick up any of the volumes of his collected papers and open to a random page and it’s a good bet you’ll find a source.

    When a slut like Jenny Erikson destroys her family, her children are forced to enter the conflict that the slut inaugurates. The children, knowing that they are descended from the father, will begin to internalize the vicious hatred that the Jenny shows to their father. They often will demonize their father in order to curry favor with the slut, all while feeling that they are betraying themselves.

    Sluts like Jenny Erikson usually reap the whirlwind when their kids reach puberty. At that point, the kids are so full of rage that it is vented largely to the custodial parent. In the case of girls, they have no man to model for mating and successful child-rearing, so rather than look for a stable man like dad, they will look for the first dude who can give them any stability. Often these are scumbags, which takes the dysfunction into the next generation.

    Incidentally, Freud wrote in his will that if he were to croak before his kids were grown, they were to be taken away from their mother and raised in an institution. Both Jung and Adler expressed similar wishes at different times. The people who studied mental illness and personal problems knew very well that people who deprived their children of a normal life were doing incredible harm to them, and even in the case of orphans, it is better to be raised in a sterile but stable institution than to be raised by a single mother.

    Hitler was raised by a single mom. Ponder that. LOL!

    Regards, Boxer

  23. Boxer says:

    Dear TFH:

    Wow, if Return of Kings has done a detailed demolition of Jenny ‘the Chin’ Erikson, she is doomed.

    HAHAHAHA! That was hilarious.

    As I am the product of a Jenny Erikson type divorce, I must say It’s nice to see a child-abusing slut getting what she deserves.

    Best, Boxer

  24. TFH says:

    For those interested in seeing all the various types of interest a woman will exhibit in a man, there is a good book for that : Undercover Sex Signals by Leil Lowndes.

    It covers many types of subtle gestures and expressions that indicate a woman’s interest, complete with pictures where a model is demonstrating each pose/look/expression.

    It is also just about the only intelligent, useful publication on Game, designed to help men, ever written by a woman.

  25. Boxer says:

    Aaaaannnnddd….. Here’s our favorite mommy blogger, talking about how she’s going to allow a new SIMP to marry her…

    http://thestir.cafemom.com/love_sex/165377/10_things_ill_do_differently

    I don’t know about any of you other single bros, but she’s looking pretty good to me right now. The alcohol problem, the flab, the wrinkles, the babydaddy drama, and the explosively oversized ego… She’s the whole package. I think I’m going to take a shot and try to woo this prize catch of a woman.

  26. TFH says:

    Boxer,

    HAHAHAHA! That was hilarious.

    Remember that Return of Kings gets traffic that is mostly non-overlapping with Dalrock (RoK has a lot of ‘how to be a PUA in XXXX obscure country’ content). So Jenny’s infamy is pretty widely broadcast at this point.

  27. Kaehu says:

    @Boxer

    Wow, this lady just can’t stop, can she?

  28. Christians 4 Christ! says:

    @ Ashley lakes, “In the last few threads there were men and women who were seeking a spouce.

    For people seeking a spouce, would you consider an arranged marriage?”

    Arranged by whom? That only works where the majority of couples in a culture have been arranged mutli generationally for hundreds of years and your marriage is actually arranged by your parents whose own marriage had been arranged by their parents. Besides, someone else recently pointed out it creates complacency as there’s no impetus to improve oneself and become more attractive if you’re automatically guaranteed a spouse no matter what. And if sexual attraction and chemistry never develop between a pair, its a set up for a frustrated life. If any of the H1B visa folks I’ve worked with are any indication, that’s not an uncommon scenario.

  29. Christians 4 Christ! says:

    “Incidentally, Freud wrote in his will that if he were to croak before his kids were grown, they were to be taken away from their mother and raised in an institution. Both Jung and Adler expressed similar wishes at different times. The people who studied mental illness and personal problems knew very well that people who deprived their children of a normal life were doing incredible harm to them, and even in the case of orphans, it is better to be raised in a sterile but stable institution than to be raised by a single mother. ”

    Freud was a nut himself, as well as many of the “people who studied mental illness”. Why do you think they’re drawn to study it? It wasn’t so long ago we had one widely acclaimed “expert” putting his own child in a cage, and his “work” was studied in social studies classes in all American schools up until recently, and it probably still is.

    “even in the case of orphans, it is better to be raised in a sterile but stable institution than to be raised by a single mother”

    Bull. A child is not an orphan as long as at least one parent is alive. My own mother raised us brilliantly after our father died and I could not imagine losing two parents, first my father to death, and then my mother through state sponsored kidnapping and relocation to a “sterile but stable institution.” There’s nothing I needed more after my father’s passing than the warmth, love and care of my surviving mother.

    Freud, Jung and Adler obviously had no sense of family. And knowing their backgrounds, its not hard to understand why. Cold, sterile and clinical quacks.

  30. Marissa says:

    I agree with you on the kooks but widows are not typical single mothers, though they are not optimal. I think “single mother” used to be unspeakable while widow was pitied. Single mothers have the worse outcome…their children are a significant percentage of criminals, mental cases, and sluts.

  31. an observer says:

    she’s looking pretty good to me right now.

    That’s a chin too far, imho.

  32. an observer says:

    Jenny’s infamy is pretty widely broadcast at this point.

    What was that dictum about no publicity is bad?

    Chin or no, there`ll be beta orbiters galore. Determined to white knight and prove wrong those nasty critics.

    Rofl….

  33. TFH says:

    C4C,

    Besides, someone else recently pointed out it creates complacency as there’s no impetus to improve oneself and become more attractive if you’re automatically guaranteed a spouse no matter what.

    That was me who said that. Yes, it is true that arranged marriage greatly reduces the pressure to be attractive, whether looks for a woman, or Game for a man. Hence the lack of both in Indians from India.

    If any of the H1B visa folks I’ve worked with are any indication, that’s not an uncommon scenario.

    Yes. If you look closely, there is a dramatic difference in the looks of Indian women born in India, vs. those born in the West. They don’t even look like the same ethnicity. Right there, one sees how much of a difference some competitive pressure can do to a woman’s looks, vs. an arranged marriage system where a 4 and 7 have the same marriage prospects, meaning that many potential 7s are content to dwindle down to 4s.

    Plus, there is absolutely no possibility of arranged marriages working at the macro level, in a society where Marriage 2.0 laws exist, and the media markets divorce to women.

  34. Opus says:

    Oh my!

    The blog that keeps on giving – Jenny Erikson’s I mean.

    The Decree Absolute (or whatever they have in the State of California) is hardly dry yet and she is already planning misery for the next sucker who she assumes she can effortlessly husband up – notwithstanding the heavy drinking, the children, the bad-reputation, and that chin. Deti really needs to Hamsterlate that latest essay about what it will be like next time. Jenny Erikson, failed wife, ergo, Jenny Erikson, matrimonial expert. LOL

  35. hoellenhund2 says:

    “Hitler was raised by a single mom. Ponder that. LOL!”

    So was Stalin.

  36. Ton says:

    #1 all girls have daddy issues. They have the Good kind, and want a man like their father ( or how they see their father) or the bad/ fun kind.

    #2 all girls are 11. Once you come to grips with that your interactions with girls will become easier to manage/ direct/ control

  37. Tilikum says:

    i work out of a starbucks close to a major pac 12 school. single, and a ton of interaction.

    i can report that the rapidly changing mating environment that led me to Dal, RM, CH, and more, is changing yet again.

    i tell older family members that the last five years have seen the absolute worst female behavior i’ve ever seen, but it is changing rapidly yet again. young (20-23) yo’s are getting serious and competitive and doing it in a hurry.

  38. Tilikum says:

    young women FYI

  39. earl says:

    “Aaaaannnnddd….. Here’s our favorite mommy blogger, talking about how she’s going to allow a new SIMP to marry her…”

    Already assuming a second marriage. I’m going on a limb and saying she will get a worse guy than Leif to marry her (if she even gets married).

  40. earl says:

    “Chin or no, there`ll be beta orbiters galore. Determined to white knight and prove wrong those nasty critics.”

    You make that sound like it will be a good thing to her.

    If white knights make most of us red pill men vomit…just think how women feel about them.

  41. earl says:

    “Please don’t teach your daughters to signal interest by pawing strange men.”

    Yeah…it’s already ingrained in them from birth.

  42. The whole signal thing. Yea, had women touch my arm and do some strange things to get my attention but none of it was due to sexual attraction, for as soon as I asked them out or reciprocated the interest they made all sorts of excuses.

    I guess I’m just not that brilliant at reading the signals. Which is why I promote the idea of no marriage for myself and other unattractive men; and the only way a guy like me would even know a woman was interested is if she actually did the heavy lifting and told me she like me. Else, been rejected far too many times due to mixed signals, don’t need that in my life anymore.

  43. Opus says:

    Without wishing to pre-empt Deti who will perhaps take up my suggestion to Hamsterlate the latest Jenny Erikson article I cannot resist saying something about her reason number 1 as to why she should not have married Erik.

    At number 1 she reveals that they married seven months after his accepted proposal and says that that was not (together with all the time they had known each other when Erik was in LJBF territory – not that we know exactly how long that was, but surely a year or more) enough time to get to know someone to ascertain whether the person she was marrying would be the sort of person she could spend her whole life with. Now, I ask you, if two or more years is not enough then just what length of time might be? Aren’t women always saying that they don’t want to jump into sex but that they need to get to know the person first – and that surely is exactly what (had she paid any attention to Erik when he was in LJBF zone) she had the opportunity of doing, never mind the next seven months. How long exactly does this woman require one might ask? Seemingly eternity would never be quite enough time for her to reach that decision. It is of course bunkum and the reality is that Jenny wants to go shagging with the hottest guys that (now she is a famous media-person) she thinks she can get. Looking at that nice photo of her Erik and the two sweet girls they look as well made for each other as is humanely possible – both blonde blue-eyed, I’d guess of Nordic extraction – about the same age and with (frankly) Erik having the better temperament. She, whether she admits it or not, had done well, especially considering that Erik was happy to overlook her pump and dump past. Now, with a drink habit, a poor track record, her increasing age and the absurdity for all to see of her contradictory internet writings, as well as the baggage which is two growing girls she cannot do as well. The awful thing is that she is entirely oblivious to this. The day Erik proposed was the best day of her life as she would not and could not reasonably have done better. Of course if she is saying she would prefer to have been an out-of-wedlock mother and all-round party girl I know many guys who would surely have been only to happy to indulge her desires.

  44. earl says:

    “I guess I’m just not that brilliant at reading the signals.”

    I think women are looking from male attention everywhere…even from guys she doesn’t desire. That’s what an out of control ego or the lack of a father does.

  45. earl says:

    I’m so glad a “Christian” like Jenny Erikson is already planning out her adulterous schemes.

    +1 to the church that dumped her

  46. Ashley lakes says:

    I guess my experience with arranged marriage is dramatically different than the others on this blog.

    I know about 2 dozen couples who used arranged marriage. They compete with each other to be the most beautiful/smartest ect too much if anything.

    Also they go on several chaperoned dates before marriage to ensure that they are attracted to each other.

    Divorce is pretty much a non option because if you divorce you take a status hit.

  47. Ashley lakes says:

    C4C

    Arranged by whom?

    This is my understanding of the process: Usually the daughter says that she is ready to be married the her parents place an ad and wait for replies on a matrimonial website. Her father and mother will choose a few applications that they like. Her mother and father will set up some meetings. If they have chemistry, they continue to negotiate toward marriage.

    For a son his parents will start combing through ads to make offers to meet. Before they respond they might show the son the photo of her.

  48. deti says:

    First of all, Cane’s post is gold.

    Second, from Jenny Erikson’s latest post, which Opus wants me to hamsterlate, it’s clear that this woman should never marry again; and that any man who “marries” her is a fool and will deserve whatever befalls him.

  49. Boxer says:

    Good work to those who leave comments on that pathetic “stir” web page.

    Taking a cue from TFH: We should really show the SIMPS who are white knighting Jenny Erikson no mercy. Take a look at twitter and see how many thirsty beggars are lining up to kiss the banged-out, old asshole of Jenny Erikson. These pathetic half-men, who are probably on the wait list for gender reassignment surgery, should be shamed by everyone.

  50. en-sigma says:

    I am one of the ones that Cane disparages over our disagreement over things like abortions. While i can appreciate the premise of the post, I cannot appreciate the blog as a whole.

    “Abortion is nice. Yes, it looks pretty gruesome seeing all those baby body parts sliced up and sucked out, but how bad is that compared to a lifetime of caring for a downs syndrome child until you die? “

  51. 8to12 says:

    @Opus,

    7 months is plenty of time to get to know each other.

    The original purpose of the engagement period was to give two people enough time to determine whether or not they wanted to get married. Now it’s the time period needed to plan the extravaganza–the one that celebrates the bride.

    Modern weddings have become an industry, and they have undermined the purpose of the engagement period. How many women (or men) have had second thoughts during the engagement period only to think “we’ve already spent so much money on the wedding; I’ll have to go through with it.”

    There’s no point in “dating” for a year, then taking another 6 months to plan a wedding.

  52. earl says:

    “We should really show the SIMPS who are white knighting Jenny Erikson no mercy.”

    Agreed. White knights are more of the problem than the sluts.

  53. earl says:

    I guess Dalrock has competition in the stalker status.

    I like heartiste’s response too.

  54. I had the opportunity to date around in a new city… I had utter, complete success dating and sleeping with girls who go to church/are Christians, provided I kept my own Christianity under wraps.

    I repeated the experiment a week later but mentioned (once) I’m a believer. No dates. Not even much conversation. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

    (The oddest thing was I misjudged one girl who wasn’t a Christian, and ended up leading her to the Lord after sleeping with her. Huh?)

  55. Marissa says:

    “Abortion is nice. Yes, it looks pretty gruesome seeing all those baby body parts sliced up and sucked out, but how bad is that compared to a lifetime of caring for a downs syndrome child until you die? “

    That sounds like sarcasm, but I could be wrong.

  56. Yes, this lady is pure pump and dump material. I feel for her two daughters and ex but, other than that, I hope she gets used to the max. Just remember, the more white knights tell her she did the right thing, the more likely she is to continue on her path. And hence fall into bed with many a PUA. PUAs rejoice and claim your prize!

  57. Cane Caldo says:

    @en-sigma & Marissa

    “Abortion is nice. Yes, it looks pretty gruesome seeing all those baby body parts sliced up and sucked out, but how bad is that compared to a lifetime of caring for a downs syndrome child until you die? “

    If I said it, then it was most assuredly sarcasm. I don’t recall it at the moment, but it looks like something I would write (or say), sarcastically.

  58. Ton says:

    Any man who marries is a fool. Dosen’t matter who he marries.

  59. Minesweeper says:

    Aaron the Just says:
    December 12, 2013 at 9:03 am
    I had the opportunity to date around in a new city… I had utter, complete success dating and sleeping with girls who go to church/are Christians, provided I kept my own Christianity under wraps.
    I repeated the experiment a week later but mentioned (once) I’m a believer. No dates. Not even much conversation. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
    (The oddest thing was I misjudged one girl who wasn’t a Christian, and ended up leading her to the Lord after sleeping with her?. Huh?)

    You are doing the Lords work!

  60. Minesweeper says:

    feministhater says:
    December 12, 2013 at 9:40 am
    Yes, this lady is pure pump and dump material. I feel for her two daughters and ex but, other than that, I hope she gets used to the max. Just remember, the more white knights tell her she did the right thing, the more likely she is to continue on her path. And hence fall into bed with many a PUA. PUAs rejoice and claim your prize!

    Some prize, don’t really think she is PUA material. Maybe the wooden spoon\booby prize at the xmas do when your coices are limited non-existent? Although saying that I really does surprise me how some guys will just bang anything with a pulse, having no standards whatsoever.

  61. earl says:

    “Some prize, don’t really think she is PUA material. Maybe the wooden spoon\booby prize at the xmas do when your coices are limited non-existent? Although saying that I really does surprise me how some guys will just bang anything with a pulse, having no standards whatsoever.”

    I would be more shocked if she hasn’t been sullied by someone after she decided to divorce.

    Women don’t plan these things without having some form of safety net in the background…money and/or dick.

  62. Minesweeper says:

    earl says:
    December 12, 2013 at 12:04 pm
    “Some prize, don’t really think she is PUA material. Maybe the wooden spoon\booby prize at the xmas do when your coices are limited non-existent? Although saying that I really does surprise me how some guys will just bang anything with a pulse, having no standards whatsoever.”
    I would be more shocked if she hasn’t been sullied by someone after she decided to divorce.
    Women don’t plan these things without having some form of safety net in the background…money and/or dick.

    Totally, esp with regards to it having on-line contact 1st, I would eat my hat if she isn’t having a full blown affair online with someone at least. Or maybe with several ‘friends’. I would add to your money(courtesy of gov), dick and (male) worth\emotional support by the bucket load.
    It never happens without these things, as the Arab street vendor says – they are like moneys, from one branch to another.

  63. feeriker says:

    Modern weddings have become an industry and have undermined the purpose of the engagement period.

    Modern weddings have undermined the purpose of marriage, period. Rather than a sacred ceremony in which a man and woman pledge themselves in union before God, witnessed by family and closest friends, it is now an engine for capitalizing on female narcissism and selfishness, a pointless, destructive, bank-busting festive orgy of idolatry that is all about her, that serves no useful purpose other than to expose the most vile facets of her personality once it’s too late for the poor sucker groom to run as far away as he can and never look back.

    And yes, any man who agrees to empty his bank account for one of these expensive entitled-bitch celebration fests deserves every ounce of pain and suffering that follows.

  64. Jeremy says:

    @feeriker says:

    And yes, any man who agrees to empty his bank account for one of these expensive entitled-bitch celebration fests deserves every ounce of pain and suffering that follows.

    I still see men doing that, men that I know to be smarter and more capable than I am. I hate to sound like the antichrist, but every time I see someone who I used to look up to make the mistake and get married with some big huge expensive wedding and honeymoon, I feel a little better about myself.

  65. 8to12 says:

    @earl said: I would be more shocked if she hasn’t been sullied by someone after she decided to divorce. Women don’t plan these things without having some form of safety net in the background…money and/or dick.

    The pattern I’ve noticed on TAM (talkaboutmarriage.com) is that women divorcing beta-husbands are at least involved in what they term on that site as an emotional affair.

    (1) She’s happily married to beta-husband.
    (2) Via social media (Facebook), work, or other activity outside the home she comes into contact with an alpha male (at least more alpha than her husband) and starts a “platonic” relationship with him.
    (3) She becomes emotionally attached to the new guy as they spend together.
    (4) She becomes emotionally detached from her husband as she starts transferring her emotional loyalty to the new guy.
    (5) Eventually she sees her beta-husband as a beta-loser and falls out of love with him (which leads to the inevitable “I love you, but I’m not in love with you” moment).

    All the while claiming she never had an affair, because she never actually had sex with the new guy. But, one of the prime motivations for divorcing her beta-husband is so she can have “guilt free” sex with the new guy.

    The ironic part is how many women post stories following this pattern bemoaning the fact that the “new guy” isn’t interested in marrying her after she divorced her beta-husband, but just wants to have sex.

  66. 8-to-12

    The ironic part is how many women post stories following this pattern bemoaning the fact that the “new guy” isn’t interested in marrying her after she divorced her beta-husband, but just wants to have sex.

    She can’t/won’t marry the new guy unless the new guy makes big money. She can’t/won’t marry the new guy because that means she instantly voids those sustained monthly checks she was getting from the old guy. I don’t know about you, but I know quite a few divorced dads who wish their ex-wives would just go ahead and marry their live-in alpha-cocks that these guys are also supporting, that way they would no longer have to support either of them.

  67. TFH says:

    Remember what I often say, which is that the hierarchy of misandric zeal is :

    Hardcore Feminists > Manginas/Whiteknights > Average Women

    The average woman just wants to side with whoever is winning. If it appeared that feminism were really losing, many women would jump back to traditional roles. This is also why about two-thirds of Western converts to Islam are women…

  68. Christians 4 Christ! says:

    Ashley lakes, I’m pretty sure TFH is Indian so he presumably has more experience with a long established arranged marriage culture than you do. At one point in my career a large percentage of my coworkers were H1B visa holders and I became close to a few of them. Even attended some traditional Indian weddings. While its true a lot of Indian parents use the web these days, they still have a cultural context within which they work to find a suitable match for their adult children. Context like caste, religion, socio economic class, even Indian regional and language background. And they don’t just vet the prospective bride or groom. The entire family, including cousins, are vetted.

  69. TFH says:

    There is a non-trivial probability that Jenny’s kids are not fathered by Leif….

  70. Christians 4 Christ! says:

    “This is also why about two-thirds of Western converts to Islam are women”

    From what I’ve read, they leave Islam as quick as they convert to it. Usually what happens is they start dating an exotic guy who happens to be Muslim and he slowly works on brainwashing them progressively over the period of their “courtship”. They don’t want to lose him so they convert before marrying. The marriage goes south and they leave Islam upon divorce.

  71. TFH says:

    Ashley Lakes,

    Arranged marriage does not work in a society where pre-marital sex is considered normal. A pre-requisite for an arranged-marriage society is that no single-person sexual mingling is happening, which also necessitates that everyone marry no later than age 22, so that most people in their mid-late 20s are already married with a kid or two. One cannot do it in a vacuum – the surrounding society has to create a climate where one can credibly believe that both sides (especially the girl) are virgins.

    Also, an arranged marriage system, which openly admits that compatibility and attraction are being sacrificed for efficiency in search-cost savings, and reproduction, is heavily dependent on a high birth rate. If the parents are tied down taking care of 3,4,5 or more kids, their lack of compatibility can be buried. That is how India got to such an immense population.

    But now, a falling birth rate combined with pre-marital sex (due to foreign films and TV entering India) means the arranged-marriage system there is doomed. The upside is that more marriages will be compatible, and Indian people will become much more attractive (as we see with Indians born in the West).

  72. TFH says:

    Actually, there is a movie that I would recommend to some of the people here. It is called ‘Ae Fond Kiss’, from 2004. It is on Netflix (where I saw it some time ago)..

    It is about an Irish woman and a Pakistani man who are in love (in Scotland), but he is pressured by his conservative Muslim + arranged marriage culture, and she is pressured and shamed by her Irish Catholic church….

    Many things about Indian arranged marriage and the Catholic Church are analyzed..

  73. Ashley lakes says:

    TFH

    Thank you. I am not Indian. I live in a big city and my husband works for a big tech firm. So I have had the privledge of meeting many Indians and consider some of them dear friends. I really like his colleagues and their families. We have gone to big parties at many of their houses and they talk about marriage a lot, so that is where I get my information.

  74. Ashley lakes says:

    C4C

    I never said I knew more about it than anyone. I thought you asked me a question.

  75. Christians 4 Christ! says:

    “Also, an arranged marriage system, which openly admits that compatibility and attraction are being sacrificed for efficiency in search-cost savings, and reproduction, is heavily dependent on a high birth rate. If the parents are tied down taking care of 3,4,5 or more kids, their lack of compatibility can be buried. That is how India got to such an immense population.

    But now, a falling birth rate combined with pre-marital sex (due to foreign films and TV entering India) means the arranged-marriage system there is doomed. The upside is that more marriages will be compatible, and Indian people will become much more attractive (as we see with Indians born in the West).”

    Maybe its a better system after all? Better to have everyone, including the ugly, paired off and raising kids than a cut throat competitive sexual market with only about half the population standing a chance at being coupled with anyone at all.

  76. jf12 says:

    Re: main Cane Caldo point. The old fashioned way that the majority of men, especially fathers, prefer would be to get hitched young and stay hitched without real possibility of divorce. But the way that women wanted it is the way that the minority bad boys wanted: sleep around when young.

  77. TFH says:

    Ashley Lakes,

    Among your Indian friends, note that their children are born in the US, and therefore :

    i) The boys will end up being 4-6 inches taller than their fathers
    ii) The girls will be pretty (but also prone to delaying marriage until age 30+, to the great dismay of their parents). Overall, neither the sons nor daughters will look like their parents at all. They will appear a different ethnicity..
    iii) When the time comes, about half of them (boys and girls) will marry whites. Only half will marry other Indians (and almost none of them via arranged marriage).

    That is how it unfolds.

  78. TFH says:

    C4C,

    One thing that India (and Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc.) can say with pride is that 95%+ of children grow up with both biological parents in the same household.

    So if that is the most important thing, then yes, this system creates a better outcome, even at the cost of compatibility, attraction, and good looks.

  79. Christians 4 Christ! says:

    “The boys will end up being 4-6 inches taller than their fathers”

    You’re so right. Why is this? Even the daughters are taller than their fathers in many instances. Often fatter too.

    ” When the time comes, about half of them (boys and girls) will marry whites. ”

    I’ve noticed West Indies Indians (families from Trinidad but originally from India), often marry blacks.

  80. TFH says:

    You’re so right. Why is this? Even the daughters are taller than their fathers in many instances.

    Nutrition. Western food. Plus, they play sports here because they go to school here. India itself places a very low priority on sports, physical strength, etc. Most Indian people in India never go to a gym even once in their lives.

    Indians are not naturally a small people. Indian culture and climate makes them small. In the West, 6-foot-plus Indian men are quite common (I myself am 6’3″).

    Call this ‘evolution’ or even ‘speciation’ so some extent.

    I’ve noticed West Indies Indians (families from Trinidad but originally from India), often marry blacks.

    That is different. They have been away from India for 150+ years, and have ties to proximate Caribbean blacks, much more so than Indians from India.

  81. Cane Caldo says:

    @jf12

    Re: main Cane Caldo point. The old fashioned way that the majority of men, especially fathers, prefer would be to get hitched young and stay hitched without real possibility of divorce.

    This is certainly true of me and some other fathers, but I think it has been abandoned by Christian fathers at large. It’s my experience that they prefer their daughters to “settle down” old (25-35 is old if we consider that the range should be, say, 18-30 [or, Heaven forbid! 15-30.]), and stick their heads in the sand about what their daughters do while “experiencing life”

    When you compare and contrast the statements “settle down”, and “experience life”, you begin to understand how anti-marriage many Christians really are.

  82. MarcusD says:

    @Boxer
    I was asking them for a source for the claim that “daddy issues” is a myth. (But thanks, nonetheless, for the post.)

  83. TFH says:

    I’ve noticed West Indies Indians (families from Trinidad but originally from India), often marry blacks.

    There is another movie about this, somewhat better known than the Irish+Indian one I mentioned above.

    ‘Mississippi Masala’ is about such a girl, who likes a black man (Denzel Washington). Although her family was from Uganda and were part of the expulsion of Indians from Uganda by Idi Amin, not the Caribbean.

  84. Christians 4 Christ! says:

    “Nutrition. Western food. Plus, they play sports here because they go to school here. India itself places a very low priority on sports, physical strength, etc. Most Indian people in India never go to a gym even once in their lives. ”

    This doesn’t add up. The SAD, Standard American Diet, truly is sadly lacking in nutrients. The food I’ve enjoyed at my H1B visa coworkers’ homes was far fresher and healthier. If they trade a traditional Indian diet for the standard American one, I would expect them to balloon up and suffer from all sorts of maladies, much like Americans are.

  85. Bee says:

    @Cane Caldo,

    “This is certainly true of me and some other fathers, but I think it has been abandoned by Christian fathers at large. It’s my experience that they prefer their daughters to “settle down” old (25-35 is old if we consider that the range should be, say, 18-30 [or, Heaven forbid! 15-30.]), and stick their heads in the sand about what their daughters do while “experiencing life” ”

    My dad was like this. Even though he was a faithful churchgoer and a deacon, he actively discouraged my sisters from marrying young. He pushed them hard to go to college. Two of my sisters got MS in STEM fields. Neither of those two have any kids; surprise, surprise! My dad only ended up with 2 grandkids. He spent a lot of time with his grandkids and I am sure he wanted more than 2. I don’t think he ever figured out why he only had 2.

  86. jf12 says:

    @Cane Caldo,
    I believe the majority of men at large and especially the majority of nice Christian men would rather that their daughters marry as early as possible to the hardest-working man available. If the men had their druthers (“woul’d-ruthers”). But men no longer have their druthers: that is the problem.

  87. Cane Caldo says:

    @jf12

    I believe the majority of men at large and especially the majority of nice Christian men would rather that their daughters marry as early as possible to the hardest-working man available. If the men had their druthers (“woul’d-ruthers”). But men no longer have their druthers: that is the problem.

    But why do you believe that? Is that what you’ve seen? Not what they’ve told you, or said at church, or men’s group, but what have you seen them do, i.e., what are their daughters doing? Is their emphasis on encouraging hard-working men, or on denigrating men for not working hard enough?

  88. TFH says:

    The SAD, Standard American Diet, truly is sadly lacking in nutrients.

    I meant proper Western diet. Not junk food. And this does not even have to mean meat consumption.

    US blacks (the non-obese ones) are similarly much bigger than African blacks. West African blacks aren’t dominating world sports (even low-budget sports), but we see American and Caribbean blacks do disproportionately well in sports.

    Your Indian friends are probably South Indian (which is what a lot of software H1Bs are), which means a lot of carbs (white rice), and very little protein unless they also eat fish, etc.

    There are vegetarian forms of protein, but South Indians tend not to eat them.

  89. Mark says:

    @IBB

    “”His point was explaining to his daughter how important it is for women who notice that men are noticing them “”

    Excellent point…….the Number 1 thing in GAME!….if you cannot attain this?…….NEXT!

  90. jf12 says:

    @Cane Caldo,
    “Is that what you’ve seen?” Yes, what the men would rather is indeed first hand. I’m in an extremely conservative denomination, however. Apostolic Pentecostal, if that has meaning for you. The men haven’t changed. “what are their daughters doing?” But the daughters changed. The daughters are not doing what their fathers would rather, and also not what the nice young men would rather. In a subsequent post I’ll trace the two typical off-kilter trajectories for young Christian women I’ve observed since 1967.

  91. Mark says:

    @Marissa

    “”It is the truth, not adolatry. Single mothers statistically raise the worse trash in society, male or female. It’s a constant in criminality and promiscuity””

    In Canada……80% of the Federal Inmates within our penitentiaries are from single “mothers”.The inmate sitting in the “PEN”…has 2 or 3 children(from different empowered wimminz).How do you think these mothers pay the bills and feed the kids?….WELFARE!…….Thanks for the post!

  92. TFH says:

    C4C,

    I should also point out that UMC and higher Americans are NOT obese. Obesity is under 10% among UMC Americans. This is the diet I am referring to, which is what those US-born Indians eat.

    Also, comparing what you were presented as a dinner guest at an Indian home is inaccurate. Indians, like the French, are adept at doing a great culinary production for outsiders. This is not what they eat on a typical weekday, or for breakfast, due to the work involved.

    This is also why the kids in any Indian home are extremely happy to see you visit, as your visit means THEY will get to eat much fancier food than what their mother would otherwise make for them on an average day. This is true in all households, but more pronounced in French and Indian cultures where food presentation to outsiders is a big deal of ambassadorial importance.

  93. feeriker says:

     Is their emphasis on encouraging hard-working men, or on denigrating men for not working hard enough?

    It depends – on what their pwescious wittle pwincesses are feeèeeewing.

    They’ll encourage hard work in men if wittle pwincess is interested in marrying one. But let wittle pwincess whine to Daddy about not get EVERYTHING she wants from her husband, and then SIL becomes just another worthless bum in Daddy’s eyes (even if SIL is working 60-plus hours pet week, maybe even at two jobs, just to keep wittle pwincess fed and housed). Of course, with SIL working like a slave to take care of wittle pwincess (like a Christisn husband is commanded by Scripture to do), he sees less of her, at which point she whines about THAT, leading Daddy to fulminate about his SIL working too much.

    For the slow learners who haven’t figured it out yet, the lesson here is that Christian men immersed in churchian culture CANNOT win.

  94. jf12 says:

    @Cane Caldo,
    Probably the single most typical trajectory for young women in our churches is increasing worldliness throughout high school, typically encouraged by their mothers, followed by “I’m outta here” either right at 18 or after their first party at college. Easily 2/3 of the girls do this, although many return later. Most of the young men have not yet given up at that point, and still wear their nice ties and shiny shoes to church until they suddenly notice the desertion of the girls: then the boys are outta there too, never to return, not ever. Probably 3/4 (or more) of the boys that leave never return, except fitfully.

    In contrast, many of the girls return. Many return quickly, after just a couple or so years of the harsh world has sickened them sufficiently. Many of these hopefully truly repentant women often snag a good guy right off but the others realize later, after a few more years of turning down nice guys, that they were already living out their manifest destiny of a calling to spinsterhood. That’s one trajectory.

    The other, more numerous, trajectory I’m sure has been lampooned sufficiently in the manosphere to deserve its own name, but I don’t know what that name is except maybe the carousel thing. Here’s how it plays out:
    1. The good girl goes bad. She falls for one bad boy, despite all the warnings, despite having rejected every single one of the 297 nice guys she grew up with
    2. He dumps here within nanoseconds of doing the deed. She vocalizes a decision to have nothing to do with men ever after.
    3. The very next month, she falls for another bad boy. Cycle continues.
    4. She has gotten pregnant several times and has aborted most but not all of her babies by her early 20s.
    5. She has a sudden awakening in her late 20s, possibly induced by her parents refusing to keep any more of her kids, that it would have been better to have a nice guy. And she sets her cap back towards church.
    6. Over the subsequent months she is amazed to find that some of the nice guys she rejected are still there, still unattached, and she is amazed that she still rejects them. She thought that her making up her mind to change somehow would change them.
    7. She blames the church, her parents, and the nice guys, and she leaves again.
    8. Occasionally she returns for good after her children are grown and she is post-men literally.

  95. Most people today, including fathers of princesses, believe that delaying marriage makes it more likely to be successful, because they heard somewhere that statistics prove that. They’re probably getting the causation wrong and ignoring a lot of other factors, like the fact that many people who marry later do it because they went to college first, which means they’re more likely to be intelligent and/or from wealthy families, which means they’re more likely to have good future time orientation and be less impulsive. On the other end of the scale, people getting married really young may have had a shotgun wedding due to pregnancy, and may get no support from their families because their parents would prefer they’d killed or given away the baby and stayed in school.

    But whatever the reason for the statistics, the idea that your odds in marriage are better if you wait until 28 or so has really taken hold across the population, especially among conservative church-going types who really do want their kids’ marriages to last. So when parents encourage their 19-year-old daughter to avoid getting serious about any boy, they really do think they’re doing her a favor. Even if she does fool around a bit while she earns a degree until she gets “mature” enough to marry at 26-30, they figure a little fornication is preferable to having her marry at 20 and be abandoned with two kids and no career at 23, which is what they’re convinced is likely to happen if she marries young.

    The interesting thing is that the young married couples I’m familiar with, even the oops-pregnancy ones, seem to be more mature than the couples that marry later. They seem to have that more traditional attitude that you just get married and have babies as they come and do what it takes to make it work. Maybe that’s because they didn’t have ten years of adult “experience” to build up a lot of high expectations. The older ones seem more likely to bitch and moan about every little thing that goes wrong and make lame excuses for putting off children forever.

  96. TFH says:

    feministhater,

    And hence fall into bed with many a PUA. PUAs rejoice and claim your prize!

    No PUA of any competence would resort to settling for her, for even a one-night stand.

    Also, note that her rather pronounced chin causes another problem in her aspirations to be active on the slut scene – a problem she did not anticipate..

    Her large chin makes it very awkward for her to conduct fellatio on a man. Her chin would crush his balls as though he were kneed, whereas a normal woman’s chin would not have this spatial problem. And different angles just don’t work well for that act.

    This is a complication she did not anticipate, but it lessens her prospects on the slut circuit.

  97. jf12 says:

    @Cail Corishev “The interesting thing is that the young married couples I’m familiar with, even the oops-pregnancy ones, seem to be more mature than the couples that marry later.” Yes, provided we compare apples to apples. For example, young working-class no-college Christian couples who marry at 20 compared to the same just-not-as-young working-class no-college Christian couples who marry at 30.

  98. Cane Caldo says:

    Sorry, Dalrock. Here’s a fixed version.

    @jf12

    Thanks for the reply.

    I’m in an extremely conservative denomination, however. Apostolic Pentecostal, if that has meaning for you. The men haven’t changed.

    I am somewhat familiar with Apostolic Pentecostals. My observation of these men is that they are stuck in a past that never existed.

    Probably the single most typical trajectory for young women in our churches is increasing worldliness throughout high school, typically encouraged by their mothers, followed by “I’m outta here” either right at 18 or after their first party at college.

    This is what I’m talking about. There was never a past where mothers refrained from encouraging worldliness except as the father disciplined the whole family; including Mama, and sometimes including violence (regardless of whether that is good or bad).

    In addition, if we send our daughters to college where college parties (or high school, for that matter) happen, then we can’t expect them not to recognize that parties and the carousel are way more fun and dramatic than marriage to the nice boys who go to church. Otherwise it wouldn’t be called temptation, but coercion.

    I see an awful lot of that instinctual leeway that “she was tricked or coerced” in the Men’s Sphere. It’s mostly from the nice boys. In contrast, I’ve recently been labelled a psychopath (in the best possible way) for merely acknowledging what God has always told us about ourselves: We love our sin; even women.

    We have this idea that either people–especially women– were different back then, or they had a better system; that Mamas were more than human; that they didn’t have sinful desires to go to a party, drink to loss of inhibition, and get railed in a fit of passion. We took those mean old rules and mean old men for granted.

  99. Christians 4 Christ! says:

    Speaking of desperate betas….

    Oh, to be young and in love — and naïve. Reese McKee, 25, launched an all-out Internet search to track down a young woman he fell head over heels for last New Year’s Eve and never saw again, eliciting massive support from around the world. But despite online sleuths finally locating her, a dejected McKee has called off the effort, as it appears the object of his affection does not want to be found.

    The young woman, identified only as “Katie” from Washington D.C., with rosy cheeks and a warm grin, as seen in McKee’s single photo of her, reportedly deleted all her social media accounts after being bombarded with inquiries. And that’s left the young man, of New Zealand, slinking off into the sunset.

    “It turned into a massive ‘let’s stalk every Katie in the D.C. area,’” McKee tells the New Zealand Herald about how others interpreted his search, which apparently overwhelmed the young woman. “I was trying to get people to stop that, but with 2,000-plus people messaging … it got a bit out of hand.”

    McKee met Katie in Hong Kong on New Year’s Eve, when he saw her crying on the side of the road. She had been separated from her friends, but in a lovely twist of fate à la “Before Sunrise,” the two bonded while “playing in traffic” and “dancing all night.” When they eventually bid a hasty adieu, McKee says, her last words to him were, “Find me.” Before separating at dawn, the besotted young man learned Katie was from D.C. and had snapped an image of her.

    “My friend found it on my phone the next morning and the good memories came sweeping back,” he wrote on Facebook. “Which evaporated into mild despair when I realized how little I had to go off.”

    And so, with the anniversary of their meeting approaching and having had no luck on his own — and with what was sure to be an outpouring of aid due to holiday spirit, McKee noted — he explained the launch of his online search to the world. “I was hurt a long time ago. The hopeless romantic in me was locked away when he got hurt because it was too much,” he wrote. “I hope to find her. And along the way, find myself.”

    He garnered a swell of support from hopeless romantics around the globe. He told the New Zealand Herald, “The thing bloody exploded, God, the article went everywhere.” But he drew a fair share of critics, too.

    Read more here:

    http://shine.yahoo.com/love-sex/lovelorn-man-s-online-search-for-woman-backfires-175804100.html

  100. Christians 4 Christ! says:

    “Most people today, including fathers of princesses, believe that delaying marriage makes it more likely to be successful, because they heard somewhere that statistics prove that. They’re probably getting the causation wrong and ignoring a lot of other factors, like the fact that many people who marry later do it because they went to college first, which means they’re more likely to be intelligent and/or from wealthy families, which means they’re more likely to have good future time orientation and be less impulsive.”

    Well that’s just it. The marriage stats are good for university graduated couples who marry in their mid to late twenties. Take away the university graduated and it doesn’t matter how old or young they are, their chances at a life long union go down considerably.

    “But whatever the reason for the statistics, the idea that your odds in marriage are better if you wait until 28 or so has really taken hold across the population, especially among conservative church-going types who really do want their kids’ marriages to last. ”

    But its not the waiting until mid or late twenties, its graduating university and getting married after one has done so. Change one of those things, either don’t graduate but wait til mid to late twenties, or even graduate but marry before mid twenties, and the chances of divorce increase.

  101. jf12 says:

    @Cane Caldo
    “There was never a past where mothers refrained” true, but their husbands were allowed to refrain their wives. Back then, but not now.

  102. MarcusD says:

    Benjamin Franklin, Advice to a Young Man on the Choice of a Mistress (1745).

    http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bdorsey1/41docs/51-fra.html

  103. She’ll be hopping on the carousel when she goes
    She’ll be hopping on the carousel when she goes
    She’ll be hopping on the carousel, she’ll be hopping on the carousel, she’ll be hopping on the carousel when she goes… to university…

    Once again, Christian men calling for their own daughters fornication with other men. How nice!

  104. MarcusD says:

    Montana newlywed Jordan Linn Graham pleads guilty in husband’s murder

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/12/justice/montana-newlywed-death-trial/

    Then she spoke of the deadly argument and how she had misgivings about the marriage.

    “I wasn’t really happy,” she said.

    She wasn’t feeling like one should when first married, she said.

  105. Christians 4 Christ! says:

    Bee, “My dad was like this. Even though he was a faithful churchgoer and a deacon, he actively discouraged my sisters from marrying young. He pushed them hard to go to college. Two of my sisters got MS in STEM fields. Neither of those two have any kids; surprise, surprise! My dad only ended up with 2 grandkids. He spent a lot of time with his grandkids and I am sure he wanted more than 2. I don’t think he ever figured out why he only had 2.”

    There’s no reason why STEM women cannot marry in their mid to late twenties. The longest lasting marriages with the lowest chances of divorce are amongst university graduates who marry in their mid to late twenties. There’s no reason why STEM women wouldn’t qualify for this demographic. Don’t blame STEM for your sisters’ single status.

  106. hoellenhund2 says:

    “I guess Dalrock has competition in the stalker status.”

    I guess that insufferable broad should check the real meaning of the word “stalker” in a dictionary.

  107. There is a reason, they put off marriage till their mid to late twenties and fucked around in college instead of marrying.

  108. unsigma says:

    If I said it, then it was most assuredly sarcasm. I don’t recall it at the moment, but it looks like something I would write (or say), sarcastically.

    Neutered Piety: The Socially Conservative Abortifacient

    does not seem sarcastic

  109. earl says:

    Yup…white knight beta fathers are a bigger problem than their slutty daughters.

    These men have no idea how women think or operate…the glorious brainwashing has really done a number on all men in general.

  110. hoellenhund2 says:

    I’d say white-knighting beta fathers and their slutty daughters reinforce each other’s dysfunctional behavior and misandrist prejudices.

  111. earl says:

    It’s a chicken and egg case.

    Weak chickens lead to rotten eggs.

  112. Marissa says:

    This is the only time in the history of marriage that university graduates in their late twenties have the most successful marriages. Apart from the social and economic factors already discussed, there are incentives like: woman is about to hit the wall, man is a beta who doesn’t mind his wife gave her best years to the carousel.

  113. Marissa writes, “This is the only time in the history of marriage that university graduates in their late twenties have the most successful marriages.”

    This is the only time in history that the marriage rate is less than 50% and the divorce rate is over 50% and the only time in history that women intiate 2/3 of divorces and are awarded with cash and prizes for blowing up families as the bernakifieirz wishthem to do. This is the only time in history women are allowed to initiate divorce based on their butt and gina tingalasgslaolaollzozzlhzlzlzoo. This is the only time in history that women are expected to fornicate in college and high school before settling down.

    I see nothing successful about these “marriages” where a man gets a buttccoieekdz womenz who can blow up the family at any time, without consequence.

  114. Marissa,

    This is the only time in the history of marriage that university graduates in their late twenties have the most successful marriages.

    It ain’t marriage when the wife gave her best years to riding a train of athletes in college. And it ain’t marriage when a father knows he cannot provide for his kids the security of an intact family, unless he continuously runs game on his wife and keeps her tingles fresh and flowing.

    The closest thing that exists to marriage anymore is the one-night stand.

  115. @hoellenhund2

    I’d say white-knighting beta fathers and their slutty daughters reinforce each other’s dysfunctional behavior and misandrist prejudices.

    Slutty daughters aren’t a problem. Sluts can be pumped, dumped, and really don’t get in anyone’s way.

    White knights and beta males who marry them are the problem. Truly, the only way to do the Lord’s work is to refuse marriage with them. I led one of my more recent pump and dumps to the Lord. Tell me, would it have been better to marry her first?

  116. Cane Caldo says:

    @unsigma

    I answered your comments.

  117. atahualpa says:

    Hey, um, guys? Back the hell off of Marissa and Unsigma or you’ll have to deal with me. Look, we all agree that there are some problems with marriage in the US, but I think that doesn’t justify the pileon of Marissa and Unsigma. Don’t invalidate her real life experiences with your rigid, linear thinking and statistics. Try to be gentlemen or this won’t be a safe space for women to post.

    Marissa and Unsigma, please accept my apology on behalf of all posters here for the crude replies directed your way, sometimes some men can’t help being jerks. There are a few of us with some sensitivity, so please don’t think that we’re all like that.

    Dalrok, I’ll be messaging you with a list of users that you need to ban.

  118. earl says:

    Who let in the white knight?

  119. GBFM,

    This is the only time in history that the marriage rate is less than 50% and the divorce rate is over 50% and the only time in history that women intiate 2/3 of divorces and are awarded with cash and prizes for blowing up families as the bernakifieirz wishthem to do. This is the only time in history women are allowed to initiate divorce based on their butt and gina tingalasgslaolaollzozzlhzlzlzoo. This is the only time in history that women are expected to fornicate in college and high school before settling down.

    It’s deplorable how few the number of adults over 18 are currently married. Our divorce rate is equally deplorable.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/17/marriage-trends-demographics/2424641/

    http://www.livescience.com/38308-us-marriage-rate-new-low.html

    Everyone is trying to look for some positive spin to put on this (yeah but, maybe the numbers of marriage ceremonies might increase?) crap. It’s a bunch of nonsense and no one is willing to make the cultural changes necessary to stop the carnage.

    I think to turn this around, you have to act locally. Think globally on this but act locally. What do I mean by that? When my brother-in-law’s ex-wife is around, I’ll get up and walk out of the room. I have nothing to say to her since she frivorrced my wife’s brother, nothing. I have to see her occationally because they have kids but when she is around, I leave. Done. Maybe she doesn’t feel any shame but I am doing my small part to let her know (by my absence) that her behavior is simply not tolerated. We need more people to do this at the local level….

    …it used to be that way. And people used to care because at one time honor and integrity mattered.

  120. atahualpa says:

    @Earl

    Now you’ve done it. I’ve added you to the list of people that I require darlok to ban.

  121. Boxer says:

    Hey, um, guys? Back the hell off of Marissa and Unsigma or you’ll have to deal with me.

    That’s why I love this place. It’s often *laugh out loud* funny…

  122. atahualpa says:

    @ibb

    You just made the cut too. Hope you’re happy.

  123. earl says:

    Fine let dalrok ban me.

    This place however is Dalrock’s.

  124. Boxer says:

    Aaron sez:

    White knights and beta males who marry them are the problem.

    I have come to believe that the average beta male is not the major problem. He’s just a gullible sucker who believes the lies the sluts tell him. He’s doing what everyone told him that a “decent guy” does. He wants to get married and be a hardcore family man. Too often, he’ll just be a mark. In that regard, the androsphere does good work, as it spreads the meme of skepticism and “trust but verify” throughout the popular consciousness.

    The white knights and manginas are a different story. These men don’t just stand up for their wife or daughter (which is natural, for the most part) but any random woman, including shameless hoes.

    A better name for white knight is “pussy beggar” as it gets to what they’re really trying to do. They are trying to get female attention the only way they can. These men have none of the honor of the beta male who gets married. Most of them wish they were playas, or fancy themselves as being playas, due to the fact that a few mediocre fatties may have opened their legs for him, in return for his constant excusing of female bad behavior.

    I like Tommy Sotomayor’s term SIMP best. It’s short and is loaded with meaning.

    I led one of my more recent pump and dumps to the Lord. Tell me, would it have been better to marry her first?

    LOL!

    Love your work on twitter, bro… I’m Herbie over there.

  125. atahualpa says:

    @earl – well he won’t have this place for long if he keeps letting you post your bile here. Insensitive men like you post your angry comments here and make the ladies feel uncomfortable. I certainly won’t just stand by and let it happen without confronting you.

    I’m sure Dalrok wants this to be a safe space for the ladies as much as I do.

  126. Anchorman says:

    Thank Gaia there are still nice guys willing to play “lets you and him fight.”

    On a completely unrelated note, Marissa and Unsigma are slightly bewildered by earl talking to himself.

  127. atahualpa,

    You just made the cut too. Hope you’re happy.

    The only person who is going to be cut, is YOU. You have come here to stir up trouble.

    The ladies post here because these particular ladies have respect for men in the manosphere. We don’t walk on eggshells here. We pull no punches on this site and sometimes people might take offense to that. That is too bad.

    YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY to dictate who can say what, or to whom they can say it. You can suggest to Dalrock anything you want, and the only person who will get the boot is you. And you should be booted as you add NO VALUE, you are merely a troll.

    Go away. And don’t come back….

  128. atahualpa says:

    @ibb – seems like you’re the one trying to tell him what to do now. I feel sorry for the poor ladies who do try to bring a little of civility over here, what with people like you and earl spewing your mysogyny. I’m sure they are grateful that at least one person is standing up for them.

    Ladies, PM me!

  129. Anchorman says:

    Really,ibb?

  130. Anchorman,

    Really,ibb?

    Whoops, I missed your comment. I didn’t know atahualpa was a “sock puppet.” Now that makes sense. Joke’s on me. lol! It’s Friday the 13th afterall.

  131. jf12 says:

    Deep Thought Of The Day: the necessary symplectization of gender science. Rollo’s most recent post Madonnas and Whores is relevant here, in deciding marriage etc. He notes an inexact symmetry between men and women in the parceling out of SMVs and MMVs. I remark that the inexactness of the gender comparison can be said to be due to antisymmetry. Don’t run away just yet; I don’t mean “Women good, men bad” or anything so easy. I mean a partial antisymmetry upon swapping male for female. And “partial antisymmetry upon swapping” is the hallmark of being symplectic. More to follow.

  132. earl says:

    “On a completely unrelated note, Marissa and Unsigma are slightly bewildered by earl talking to himself.”

    Consider yourself cut.

  133. atahualpa says:

    Nobody’s a sock puppet but still I thought I was being sufficiently over the top…. I honestly had no where else left to go with it.

    Inspired by my new favorite site on the interet: http://betapedia.com/

  134. Marissa says:

    I agree with both of you, GBFM and Aaron. My remark was pointed toward statements like this from Christians 4 Christ!

    But its not the waiting until mid or late twenties, its graduating university and getting married after one has done so. Change one of those things, either don’t graduate but wait til mid to late twenties, or even graduate but marry before mid twenties, and the chances of divorce increase.

    Neither of these factors were predictors of successful marriage before legal, financial and social conditions changed. So clearly they are not causes of successful marriages. They are characteristics of most of today’s successful marriages, but not causes. Those who are staying married are not held back from divorcing by the law. They are not held back from divorcing by the woman losing financial stability (which is ensured even if she divorces) . These successful marriages are held back from divorce by social custom (and perhaps a subconscious understanding of the woman’s MMP in her later age, as she’s about to hit the wall).

    Someone above made a comment about white UMC types having a 10% obesity rate. But it’s not the fact that they are white, making good money and likely college graduates that keeps them slim. I don’t know what the term is, but I’d say something like “reverse causation”.

  135. The Rigorist says:

    I have a research report (Science – AAAS ) and supporting materials for you, Dalrock, and need an eddress.

  136. Cautiously Pessimistic says:

    I have come to believe that the average beta male is not the major problem …. He’s doing what everyone told him that a “decent guy” does.

    He is Wimp Lo. He was trained wrong. He thinks losing is winning.

    Fortunately, most (well, some anyway) beta males aren’t idiots like Wimp Lo, and aren’t in a Kung Fu parody. A few kicks to the head and they start retraining themselves. But the process can take decades, and a great deal of damage can be done in that time that can’t be undone.

  137. jf12 says:

    We Are All Symplectic Now, and have always been. One of the big trends of modernity is the insistence upon forcing an absolute parallel when comparing between men and women in all things. Even though we all admit we are all more alike than different, it is simply true that “Eh, well, you’re just yet another one of them whatchacallit humans, aintcha?” is almost never relevant to ANY relationships between humans (and scarcely relevant to relationships between humans and elderly redneck Martians). In particular gender and personalization does intrude and OUGHT to intrude on almost all relevant relationships. There is no possible way to convince me you seriously expect me to believe I ought to treat my wife the same way as I treat the random grocery bagging dude. I ain’t kissing him, for one thing.

    But the very concept of parallel implies a geometry of the comparison. And the symplectic geometry adds a twist, literally: that partial antisymmetry is a manifestation that the “parallel” lines become braided. Next up: application to Madonnas and Whores.

  138. DrTorch says:

    “Most people today, including fathers of princesses, believe that delaying marriage makes it more likely to be successful, because they heard somewhere that statistics prove that.”

    I can tell you where: H Norman Wright. Oh, I’m absolutely sure there are others, but I was reading thru one of his books and he wrote exactly that. He gave that advice to his daughter. He provided the statistics (flawed) to support it too.

    In fairness, I like Wright. In his media presentations he has a very affable personality, he’s a clear author, and seems to care about Christians. But, he’s willing to present cultural lies (modern psychology) as truth.

    What happened is the (conservative) Church wasn’t ready for the explosion of divorce that hit it in the 1970s. So the leaders reacted, and it looked as if marrying later gave better results. It was an easy answer, and allowed them to Ignore all other factors, including the inconvenient ones about the differing roles of M&W, and their choice to accept the leftist cultural changes that had been slowly growing for 150 years.

    But putting a band aid on cancer doesn’t induce much healing. So now we see laymen (and women) such as Dalrock, CC, SSM and others take on the true role of ministry. For the record, they’ve been wrong a few times, but in this area they’re far closer to the truth than most anything I’ve heard on Christian radio, in Christian books, or from pulpits.

  139. My dad was like this. Even though he was a faithful churchgoer and a deacon, he actively discouraged my sisters from marrying young. He pushed them hard to go to college.

    The ordinary women who went to college in the 1950’s (almost exclusively UMC), 1960’s and even the 1970’s were expected to graduate with a BA and an Mrs. That was the sole purpose of sending a daughter to college. It was understood that college was where a young lady could find a large pool of men who had a high probability of being successful and it was best to place the daughters in the most target-rich environment possible. Part of the social narrative was that (especially in small towns) they didn’t want their daughters to fall in love with the soda-jerk. Therefore, off to college with her so she can find a quality husband.

    The reality of the situation has so completely changed that sending a daughter off to college is the last thing any sane (and informed) parent would wish to do, but the social narrative is still in place because somebody who went to college in the early to mid 1980’s (or earlier) attended college in a completely different environment. Almost like going to college on a different planet compared to what is happening today. Personally, I think the only way to counter this is to actually let the middle-aged parents know exactly what a young woman will experience in college today. It’s not so much that they’re encouraging their daughters to fornicate, it’s that they’re also encouraging their daughters to explore their bi-curiosity, experience threesomes (MFM, FFM and FMF), take part in drunken orgies and be handed around like party favors in frat houses. All the while pursuing a rather useless degree, delaying marriage and focusing on career without any thought of pursuing the thing they were originally sent to college to achieve: a Mrs. degree.

  140. TFH says:

    er….. People,

    atahualpa is clearly a parody. He is a regular commenter, who is using this persona to elicit reactions.

    I am surprised how many people get fooled by this sort of thing.

  141. Anchorman says:

    At the risk of destroying my own joke, I do want to clarify for ibb and others, earl is not atahualpa (“talking to himself”). The joke was that the white knight characters, as expressed during atahualpa’s faux outrage, are part of the “invisible” crowd women don’t notice.

    To heck with it. I have a trail camera to set up for second archery. Have a good weekend y’all.

  142. Buck says:

    RE:
    WOW!!!!!, just WOW!
    I guess God’s grace isn’t sufficient!
    For any of you who wonder how it was that seemingly intelligent, industrious, Christian, Germans could follow a guy like Hitler and happily stuff their neighbors into ovens, well here you go.

    “en-sigma says:
    December 12, 2013 at 8:35 am

    I am one of the ones that Cane disparages over our disagreement over things like abortions. While i can appreciate the premise of the post, I cannot appreciate the blog as a whole.

    “Abortion is nice. Yes, it looks pretty gruesome seeing all those baby body parts sliced up and sucked out, but how bad is that compared to a lifetime of caring for a downs syndrome child until you die? “”

  143. Marissa says:

    Please read Cane’s quote in context:

    Fornication and adultery and divorce are not the result of the birth control, or abortion. They are the logical results of Christians–Christ’s temple(s), the Church–abandoning sex and love and children in favor of niceness and convenience. Those Christian sisters of Catholicism and Protestantism have found what they sought, and having laid down with modernism,”science”, and all manner of Babylonian fineness and strength, now find it despicable in their sight.

    Abortion is nice. Yes, it looks pretty gruesome seeing all those baby body parts sliced up and sucked out, but how bad is that compared to a lifetime of caring for a downs syndrome child until you die? Those parents may never get a vacation! It is much nicer to get an abortion and go to Tahiti. There we can get misty at a horizon, and then puke up: “Look at that sunset! Isn’t God good?”

    “Nice” is not good.

    From here: http://canecaldo.wordpress.com/2013/06/10/neutered-piety-the-socially-conservative-abortifacient/

  144. Personally, I think the only way to counter this is to actually let the middle-aged parents know exactly what a young woman will experience in college today. It’s not so much that they’re encouraging their daughters to fornicate, it’s that they’re also encouraging their daughters to explore their bi-curiosity, experience threesomes (MFM, FFM and FMF), take part in drunken orgies and be handed around like party favors in frat houses.

    This behaviour has extended past college down into high school. If you send your kids to a public high school, they are being exposed to this kind of activity, and quite a few of them have already partaken in it.

    This is yet another reason why “marry a Christian 18 year old girl” is not a viable strategy.

  145. jf12 says:

    Here is the promised symplectification of female Madonnas (M) and female Whores (W), with male alphas (α) and male betas (ß). Rollo quotes Jeremy making the point that Madonnas match up well with betas for long term commitments (LTC) and W match well with α for short term flings (STF). On the other hand in terms of total relationship value, i.e. those individuals with whom the opposite gender would prefer to get both LTC + STF, then M matches with α. That leaves W, lower valued for STF – LTC, kinda sorta matched with ß, lower valued for LTC – STF. See those skew-symmetric minus signs there in the lower valued categories? We have successfully symplecticized the problem! There’s more, and it is cool, but I’m not sure how much time I want to waste right now making text character graphs of symplectic matrices representing gender-value transforms. Maybe later, upon request from a special someone …

    However I do want to mention right now the issue of valuation. In reality valuation isn’t as simple as SMV + MMV with handwavings about different weightings for different analyses for the genders, sorry. In reality what a woman gets from α is STF (and she is glad to get it!) but she also tries to convert him to LTC material (for herself) if possible. In contrast what a woman gets from ß is LTC but she will resist him becoming more STF. Similarly, or rather symplectically, what a man gets from M is LTC but he tries to convert her to STF (for him), and in contrast what a man gets from W is STF but he never bothers trying to make her LTC. See how intertwined this all is? Realizing that there really is intertwining is the first step, and symplectification doesn’t complicate the analysis but instead it unifies the analysis.

  146. Mark says:

    @atatulip

    Now you’ve done it. I’ve added you to the list of people that I require darlok to ban.”

    Can I get on this list?

  147. Mark says:

    @attahole

    “”Dalrok, I’ll be messaging you with a list of users that you need to ban””

    You just make sure that I am on that list!………moron!

  148. @jf12
    You have succinctly summarised what we all know to be true. The essential problem is that males are not provided any incentives for LTCs, but rather are provided powerful disincentives.

    @Mark
    I’m hurt I didn’t make @atahualpa’s list.

  149. Mark says:

    @Aaron

    @Mark
    I’m hurt I didn’t make @atahualpa’s list.

    Me also!…….it almost commands a “formal” complaint to Mister ‘D’…

    L*

  150. atahualpa says:

    @mark and Aaron – Oh, you’re both on the list now.

  151. There was never a past where mothers refrained from encouraging worldliness

    Those babes need their rum springer thingy

  152. TFH says:

    atahualpa is a pretty good parody of Labia McGrew. Her entire thing was ‘if you offend me with red-pill words, I can withhold young women from you’.

    Brilliant. And atahualpa is still fooling people into thinking he is for real, even after my earlier comment above.

  153. Boxer says:

    Dear Empath:

    Those babes need their rum springer thingy

    It’s a no brainer that kids (and not just the female ones) will have a bunch of irresponsible sex with each other in their teenage years. It’s impossible to fight biology, after all. The real genius of the diabolical system we’re living in today is embodied in middle-aged and old women, being deluded into thinking that they are desirable to all sorts of men.

    (paging mizzz erikson)

    In the rumspringa cultures, at least the kids are allowed to come back and settle into traditional life, with the expectation that they will behave themselves thereafter. In an epicurean sort of way, such people have seen the fruits of overindulgence and know the pleasure of it is largely illusory. In our dysfunctional culture, nobody ever really grows up or gains this emotional maturity.

    Regards, Boxer

  154. Anonymous says:

    Off-topic, but more Jenny Erikson posting…

    “10 Things I’ll Do Differently in My Second Marriage,” by Jenny Erikson, The Stir, 11 Dec 2013

    http://thestir.cafemom.com/love_sex/165377/10_things_ill_do_differently

    Can’t make this up…

  155. @Aaron
    This behaviour has extended past college down into high school. If you send your kids to a public high school, they are being exposed to this kind of activity, and quite a few of them have already partaken in it.

    This is yet another reason why “marry a Christian 18 year old girl” is not a viable strategy.

    There is a difference between High School and College. The parents are going to pay for the High School no matter what in the form of property taxes and special levies. College, OTOH, is a voluntary payment on the part of the parents that’s extremely expensive. If she really needs a degree, she can do it with CLEP tests, junior college locally and online all while living at home. There is absolutely no reason for reasonable people to pay an institution big bucks to debauch their daughters and turn them into unmarriageable feminist sluts with a chip on their shoulder and the thousand-cock stare.

    Homeschoolers are a different matter, but that’s more a factor of your geographic area than anything else. I lived in rural south central Kentucky for a while and you were only considered a medium size family if you could fit the whole family in a Suburban. It wasn’t until you had to buy a 15 passenger van that you were considered a large family. Many of them homeschool and fathers tend to be very watchful over their daughters. The older daughters have good domestic skills and are fully prepared to raise a family. Small private schools abound due to the evil influences of the public schools. Churches tend to be small and quite conservative. Lots of unemployment down there and lots of young girls who are in all likelihood still virgins at 18 means a guy who’s got his act down only has to convince a few Dad’s that he’d be a good suitor and he gets access to the girls.

    There are more than a few depressed areas from which girls would be more than willing to launch from. The danger there is whether she’s actually attracted to the guy or the security he’d provide. You pays your money, you takes your choice…

    Back to High School girls. This too is dependent on the local area and culture. Yes, every school will have a supply of sluts to service the team. That’s a given, but in the more conservative areas there will also be a significant cohort of girls who are reasonably attractive and still virgins at 18. Go to a large metro area? Forget it. Senior Prom is now like a mini-wedding ceremony. Everybody rents rooms for afterward, the booze flows and parents tend to look the other way. The more liberal the area, the more they slut it up.

  156. Anonymous age 71 says:

    Beryl says:
    December 11, 2013 at 9:09 pm

    >>Oh stop with the “daddy issues” myth please. You all make idols out of fathers when you say that a female has problems because of a lack of a father. Girls don’t need their dads that bad. Stop it. And mom is the daughter’s parent too you know and the one who gave birth to her.

    Maternal custody is not the worst thing that can happen to a child. But it is the worst thing that does happen to most children. Dream on in your fantasy world.

    Here in Mexico, there is a little girl, around 6 years old. She had her second birthday party at my house. Her grandparents went to the US on a religious visa for two weeks. I love that little girl as if she were my own. I visit her at least once a month.

    Her grandpa died several years ago, and there is no major male influence in her life.

    Last visit, she did not want to play with her toys with me as she usually does. She wanted to sit on my lap, laying against my right arm, and be kissed and kissed and kissed, for at least half an hour before she wanted to run and play. There was a strong need in her, and I don’t know why, for male affection.

    Don’t tell me Mexican kids are different. They are not.

    I have a niece in another state in Mexico. Her mother was a single mom, and has moved to the US. Her grandpa is not the affectionate type. When this niece was still pre-puberty, she was the same. She’d sit on my lap and ask, in English, for 100 kisses. Now that she is post puberty, she asks for 5 kisses when I visit her.

  157. MarcusD says:

    It’s a no brainer that kids (and not just the female ones) will have a bunch of irresponsible sex with each other in their teenage years. It’s impossible to fight biology, after all.

    Two things:

    1. It is possible to fight biology, but it usually requires more than an individual’s volition.

    2. Biology, in one sense, varies amongst humans. It is undoubtedly the case that sociosexual orientation varies amongst humans to a very large degree – there are males and females who will “wait ’til marriage” willingly (See: wtm.org).

  158. Boxer writes,

    “It’s a no brainer that kids (and not just the female ones) will have a bunch of irresponsible sex with each other in their teenage years. It’s impossible to fight biology, after all.”

    Note how Boxer, in his typical pro-franfurterz, anti-Christ jihad exalts butt and gina tinzgzlllzlz over following the Exalted Law of Moses and Christ.

    Boxer represents all that is wrong with the modern churchian.

  159. bob says:

    .
    MarcusD says:
    December 12, 2013 at 2:51 pm
    I’ve seen everything now…
    http://www.hastac.org/blogs/ari-schlesinger/2013/11/26/feminism-and-programming-languages

    Seriously,

    A non-normative paradigm would be something that does not reinforce normative realizations of what a programming language is. That is to say, not whatever paradigms (OOP, functional, logic, etc) and programming languages you would consider standard (Java, C++, Ruby, Python, to list a few). The ideas is that the standard, normative, concepts reinforce the values and ideologies of societies standards.

    In many ways this falls under the scope of critical code studies, as I am asking questions about the cultural, social impact of normal programming constructs. ….

    Poe’s Law in action. In reverse.

    Honestly, if I set out intentionally to mock feminism, Cultural Marxism and Liberal Professorial stupidity, I couldn’t do it this well.

  160. MarcusD says:

    I was listening to an LP earlier today, and the following song was on it:

    I had forgotten about it, but having heard it again, I think it could be an anthem of sorts for certain “demographics.”

    The refrain:

    I never will marry, I’ll be no man’s wife/
    I intend to stay single all the days of my life.

    It’s from 1966, by the way.

  161. MarcusD says:

    Poe’s Law in action. In reverse.

    Honestly, if I set out intentionally to mock feminism, Cultural Marxism and Liberal Professorial stupidity, I couldn’t do it this well.

    That was my reaction, as well. I’m starting to wonder if this type of feminist activism is backfiring in terms of STEM employment. The fact that anyone would even consider rejecting the logic upon which the world works to suit their notions of “what is right”…

  162. MarcusD says:

    I guess if you accept “object-oriented” programming at all, the patriarchy wins. Have to recognize the inherent subjectivity of code, and all.

    And that “inheritance” concept is extremely classist and feudal.

  163. Eidolon says:

    Wow, that feminist programming thing. All I can think of is this:

    What is a feminist logic is a question I’ve spent the past six months thinking about and researching. There are not a lot of women in philosophy, and there are definitely not a lot of feminist philosophers, so I don’t have a good answer for this question. … There exist logics that handle contradiction as part of the system, namely paraconsistent logic. I think this type of logic represents the feminist idea that something can be and not be without being a contradiction, that is a system where the following statement is not explosive: (p && ¬p) == 1.

    The meat of this article is completely insane. If I can understand her ramblings, she seems to be under the impression that because programmers use “objects” with “methods” and such that they are imposing some sort of patriarchal (I guess) outlook on the field of programming, and by extension on programmers. And that’s bad, I guess, since she wants to do it differently, though she doesn’t actually say that it’s bad or what’s bad about it (I think she says it “reifies” something, whatever that means). Also I guess we non-paralogical men are under the strange impression that for boolean b, (b && !b) == false.

    I’m not sure what good the whole “paraconsistent logic” thing does for her, since that’s another theory developed by men. Maybe it’s both feminist and not feminist. What’s particularly infuriating here is that, if she wants to write a programming language with a new paradigm, she’s completely free to do so. If it’s any good, if it’s useful for a particular purpose, or even if it’s weird and interesting people will pay attention to it (see LOLCODE). In what possible way is a way of producing assembly instructions for a CPU feminist or non-feminist? Is there something wrong with their brains that makes them like this?

    The other funny thing is that whenever women talk about the differences between men and women (of which I thought feminism taught there were none, paraconsistent again I guess) they seem to volunteer the idea that they’re irrational and not realize that they have just demonstrated why we shouldn’t take the things they talk about seriously. The first thing she thinks a feminist coding language would need to handle is doublethink, i.e. that women don’t think in a straightforward logical manner. Just amazing.

  164. Luke says:

    Related — a reply I posted in the comments section after I read an article on http://www.rigzone.com (an oil industry website — I work in the oil industry, and am again in need of a job.) that oohed and ahhed over the ever-increasing percentage of women in scientist and engineer slots at oil companies.
    ===================================================================

    “This ongoing development is both more advanced IMO than the article contends, and a bad thing.

    This “advance” in womens status in the oil industry is coming largely at the expense of men, and is artificial, that is, unearned. First, there are the women-only college scholarships, so many women can attend college who could not have afforded to, while more than a few men (denied this money) end up not attending.

    Second thing that I want to mention today, and worst, is the affirmative action common in nearly all U.S.-based oil companies and most large oil service companies now. A hiring manager in such companies is typically under immense pressure by those above him to meet “diversity” goals. The easiest way to maximize those is to NEVER again hire a heterosexual native-born American white male. Well, thats exactly what more than a few oil industry hiring managers now do, with no end in sight. I have talked informally with multiple geologists, geophysicists, and petroleum engineers currently employed with oil companies, and its common for them to tell me about their department of 15+ people such as themselves, with a 0-1 U.S. male in the department (and hell typically have been there a LONG time, and cant be done without — YET.)

    Meanwhile, women were no more than 1/3 of my classmates in courses in my major in undergrad and grad school (I have taken classes at 3 different grad schools). (Im a geologist.)

    So, what are the other 95% of male Geology graduates doing? Like me, many of them work in field positions (for which theyre overqualified), as few female technical degree-holders want to live like that. (Ever been up 60 hours straight looking at cement samples, or run cables for a rigup on a rig all night in a blizzard? I have.) Thats fine for most guys til mid-30s, but when they want to start a family, and actually see their kids more than 20-40% of nights, then what? Nearly all the office jobs are taken by (effectively unfireable) women, whom he cant displace no matter how much more he knows.

    Meanwhile, the women commonly stay in those oil company jobs forever, never meeting a guy theyd find marriageable on the job (theyre too busy to meet people outside of the workplace, and anyway non-oil industry companies are doing the same thing with affirmative action) because they wont look twice at a lower-status field guy, and they took all the office jobs. (“Hypergamy” explains this — look it up.)

    Or, the women in scientist/engineer jobs in oil companies DO eventually leave the oil companies relatively early in their careers (long before most men would have left), taking their expensive experience with them, either for easier work outside the industry, or to have children, generally never returning. They then get replaced with a new crop of other, younger new sci/eng graduates, typically female and often foreign (latter cheaper AND diversity-stats-enhancing). This is nice for providing workplace eye candy for the remaining, aged male higher managers, but isnt much of a solution to the lower-level employees (and would-be employees) ultimately unfulfilled lives.

    No, theres not much if anything to rejoice about, in this trend of ever higher percentages of women in science and engineering jobs in the oil industry, not when you know how it came to be, and the harm it does. Well, unless you work for N.O.W. or teach in a Women’s Studies department in a college; then its probably just peachy.”

  165. @Luke

    Which is why men of the future will (and are) starting their own businesses and becoming predominantly self-employed.

    If you need to be a vendor to someone with “diverse” purchasing goals, set up a 51% owned shell company with your mother or your buddy who’s a disabled veteran.

  166. My2Cents says:

    Guys, behold! The perfect app for reading all manosphere blogs from start to finish:

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appsropos.instapress

    Tested and working on:
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    theprivateman.wordpress.com
    canecaldo.wordpress.com
    unmaskingfeminism.wordpress.com
    veritaslounge.com

    and many more …

  167. jf12 says:

    @Luke
    “the ever-increasing percentage of women in scientist and engineer slots at oil companies” of the previous generation was due in large part to my efforts. Currently, though, it’s mostly due to simple attrition of us old white guys.

  168. atahualpa says:

    @tfh “atahualpa is still fooling people into thinking he is for real”

    I swear I thought it was being so over the top that we’d all just maybe have a good laugh and move on. I mean, a ‘safe space for women’, people that I ‘require’ our host to ban, I thought these were dead giveaways. It’s probably hard to see parody because people who are the real thing are already walking parodies so nothing is surprising.

  169. JDG says:

    unsigma why are quoting Cane Caldo out of context?

  170. TFH says:

    atahualpa,

    I thought these were dead giveaways.

    I would have thought so too, but you proved otherwise, for some of them.

    Well played, sir.

    Now, this actually *is* a productive thing to do outside the androsphere. On other Internet sites, pretend to be either an over-the-top whiteknight, or a ‘men should be exterminated’ feminist. It will get more fence-sitters to jump to the red-pill side, and also out more manginas when they agree with you (stoking even more anger among borderline-red-pill guys).

    Pretending to be a radical feminist or mangina in the other parts of the Internet, helps spread the red pill.

  171. Roland says:

    Beware Beta guys with ‘attractive women touching your arm and your shoulder” – they want something from you – and it’s NOT YOU! If that every happens, reciprocate immediately and go further with it to see if their interests are genuine. And if they cringe or scowl, then u know; they are manipulating u to do something for them.

  172. MarcusD says:

    So, I plotted the (x+3)*2 formula, and it’s a bit hyperbolic (no pun intended): http://simulacral-legendarium.blogspot.ca/2013/12/stated-vs-actual-count-plotted.html

    According to the research I’ve found, the actual plotting would be a lot different. I’ll work on a chart that summarizes a few different views.

  173. Boxer says:

    Dear atahualpa:

    I thought these were dead giveaways.

    Many people lack a sense of humor. I thought your work was excellent. A laugh is a wonderful way to start the day. Troll on!

    Boxer

  174. Luke says:

    Marcus, I actually think that the formula for translating a woman’s admitted “N” to something closer to her real one is parsimonious at the higher end of the scale. Once a woman admits to over 8, I’d bet the real # is going to be something like 30-50, especially if she’s been nonmonogamously sexually active for over 5 years. (College, and habituating the bar/bad music scenes are classics for a woman adding 10-30+ to her N a year.)

  175. hoellenhund2 says:

    “There’s no reason why STEM women cannot marry in their mid to late twenties. The longest lasting marriages with the lowest chances of divorce are amongst university graduates who marry in their mid to late twenties. There’s no reason why STEM women wouldn’t qualify for this demographic. Don’t blame STEM for your sisters’ single status.”

    There’s no way a woman with a STEM degree & job will have as many children as a woman without one.

  176. Ton says:

    Made me laugh atahualpa. I thought your were pretty damn clear in your humor.

    When a woman tells me her partner count, I always assume it’s her daily average.

  177. earl says:

    The only way a woman proves her virginity is through her actions and personality.

    I don’t care what N they say they have…they always reveal the true number.

  178. atahualpa says:

    @tfh Here’s one for the feminist sites, post after some sort of complaint about men: “I know, men are such monsters, it’s no wonder so many women these days are just giving up and marrying other women.” Good for an afternoon’s entertainment.

  179. My2Cents…..thanks for that app. Yesterday was my birthday, kind gift that. I tend to read books on anything with a screen that is part of my reformed Luddite collection, so that will give me some choices.

  180. Bee says:

    @C4C!,

    “Don’t blame STEM for your sisters’ single status.”

    Read more carefully.

    I never said they were not married. I said they did not children.

  181. Christians 4 Christ! says:

    ” Her grandparents went to the US on a religious visa for two weeks”

    A religious visa? Care to explain?

  182. Martian Bachelor says:

    Oh, I was doing feminist programming back in the disco era. That’s where you try to store more than one variable at the same address.

    It’s really just the same as what’s behind fractional reserve banking (aka banknote fraud).

  183. Christians 4 Christ! says:

    “There is a reason, they put off marriage till their mid to late twenties and fucked around in college instead of marrying.”

    I wouldn’t worry about it too much. The highly promiscuous are a minority of people in society, like around 15% at most, and the rest of us are sexually moderate. College is full of people with steady girlfriends and boyfriends and a not insignificant percentage of virgins.

  184. lzozoozozo

    DA GBFM’S BRIEF HISTORYZ OF RELIGIONZ

    in da beginigzgz everyoenz went
    ooga booga ooga boogaz and danced aorund da jungelzozlzoz
    da lotsotatas cockasz would get der lostsas cockas in da biggest oogga booggag bunghzlzoe and gina hoellisz
    then, one day a man began to think
    and ponder
    and invent
    and build
    and create
    while da womenz wnet ogaga boogzesz and followed der gaina tingelelzz bunghoelz tingzlzzol onto all da ooga booga cockeasz zlzozlzo
    and so the thinker, creator, inventor
    left the tribe
    and built civilization
    and came up with the idea
    that if men and women wanted to participate
    they would have to stop going “ooga boga ooga boogaz”
    because it was distracting
    and da womenz couldnd ride da ooga boogagas lotasasa cockasz caroleleuz
    as it undermined PROPERTY RIGHTS
    and stole from teh invetors/creators/good guys
    who were cuckholded and forced to slave away
    to raise other menzzlzozozoz ooga booggasz spawn.
    and so,
    after noting womenz inherent lust for lostsas cockas and her
    generla inability to follow HONOR, REASON, and TRUTH
    over BUTT AND GINA TINAGLAOZZOZ
    after noting her predilection for the LOSTAS COCKASZ SEPRENT
    over GOD AND REASON,
    the thinker, cretaor, invnetor
    penned GENESIS:

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+3

    “16 To the woman he said,

    “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
    with painful labor you will give birth to children.
    Your desire will be for your husband,
    and he will rule over you.””

    the thinker, cretaor, invnetor
    penned GENESIS so they
    could GET SOME FUCKING WORK DONE
    WITHOUT HAVING TO WORRY THEIR WIFE
    WOULD JUP ON ALL DA LOTSA COKASZ EVERY TIME HER BUT OR GINA TINGELLDLDL ZLZOZLOZZOL:

    and the rest of the GREAT BOOKS FO RMEN MNEZ.

    Then, thousands of years later, the bernankifieresz relaized they could enslave men en masse by libertaing womenz to follow their butt and gina tingslzlzlzozloz, and so the cnetral bankers funed fmeinist studies departmentz to deconstruct the GRETA BOOKS AND AND CLASSICSZ and ERADICATE DA GRETA BOOKSZ FOR MENZ and replace them with ooga booga musics zlzozl so they could rule suprmerez zlozoz

    MORE SOON! MUST GO DONATET SOME OF MY LOSTAS cOCCKAS TO A LIBERATETD OWMENZ BACK SOONSZ! LZIZIZZLZOZLZO

  185. Martian Bachelor says:

    The Mrs. Degree was one of the first things second tsunami feminism hunted to extinction, and it had all but vanished by the mid-70s. I knew only one girl during my too many years on campus who wanted one, and she was viewed (briefly) as a mildly curious anachronism. Nobody had marriage anywhere on the radar then.

    I also only knew of but one married student, and it was such a peculiar thing I never thought to ask him “How’d that happen?”. Maybe there were some isolated niches like greek row where the degree survived.

    The modern state uni/college is trending towards a secular version of the ideal feminist nunnery, where icky boys are allowed so long as they know their place.

  186. Martian Bachelor says:

    @GB4M/GBFM

    You’re reminding me how a direct injection of full strength black funk (James Brown, George Clinton, et al) during the disco era couldn’t much revive the old boy-meets-girl hetero system left in the wake of second tsunami feminism before it was pretty well finished off for good by AIDS/HIV during the ’80s. Like journalist Wendy Dennis (c.1990) the wimminz have been “Hot and Bothered” ever since. Which, as you say is how they like it. lolzz

  187. locard says:

    While you guys go round and round, I just go to Mark Driscoll for the answers, why just today he posted this.

    To my single sisters wanting to marry, I do not want to discourage you in any way. But, the truth is that it is harder to be a single woman than a single man as a Christian. Every poll I have ever seen says that single women are generally more mature and responsible than single men. Men are waiting until around 30 years old to marry for the first time, if they ever do. And, they are going for younger women, according to the statistics. Across Christianity, there are far more single women than single men, which means that the odds are not in the favor of godly single women. In addition, for theological reasons, many Christian women do not want to be the dating initiator, asking guys out and taking the lead in the relationship.

  188. jf12 says:

    Mark Driscoll is a wolf.

  189. Mark Driscoll sees all the correct data points, but he takes those data points and draws the wrong conclusions. He is publically saying what can only help his ministry while at the same time, protects him politically. That is basically his MO.

    What I can’t be sure of (yet) is whether or not he is saying what he is saying simply because he counts ONLY the hits (and none of the misses) when he analyzes the data OR if he has an absolute moral imperative about how this world is (men are irresponsible losers who MUST be shamed by him) and he forces the data into that worldview to reinforce his beliefs. I think it might be a little of both. But I guess it doesn’t matter to me personally since I don’t listen to Mark Driscoll.

  190. MarcusD says:

    sees all the correct data points

    I think he only sees a subset of them.

  191. 8to12 says:

    @locard,

    I tried to find a link on Driscoll’s story to comment, but apparently he is a chorus unto himself.

    Men are waiting until around 30 years old to marry for the first time…

    And his point is what?

    Historical Median Age at First Marriage

    In 1900 the median age for males to marry was 26 (as it was in 1890). In fact, except for the post WWII era, the median age for males to marry remained solidly in the mid-20’s for the entire 20th century.

    The median age for men to marry in 2010 was 28. A whopping 2 years older than the median marriage age in 1900. The difference between 26 and 28 is all but meaningless as far as men are concerned. From a practical standpoint, men today ARE marrying at the same median age they were in 1900 (110 years ago).

    Not so with women.

    The medain age for women to marry in 1890 was 22, and it remained at 22 (or younger) through the entire 20th century until the 1980s (which showed up in the 1990 census) when the median age women married started to creep up. And it has continued to slowly rise every year.

    1890: 22.0
    1920: 21.2
    1950: 20.3
    1980: 22.0 <—-
    1990: 23.9
    1995: 24.5
    2000: 25.1
    2005: 25.5
    2010: 26.1

    It's not men that have been delaying marriage. It's women. The medain age for women to marry is now four years older than it was just one generation ago, and it continues to rise.

    …they {men} are going for younger women

    1) That isn’t true. The gap between the marriage age is about 2 years, and has been about the same size since WWII.

    2) The pre-WWII age gap was closer to 4 years. So if the gap is widening, the worst case scenario is that it’s returning to its previous historical level. Hardly a disaster, since marriage seemed to be a pretty healthy institution in the first half of the 20th century.

    Bottom line is Driscoll is just telling women what they want to hear. It’s all the men’s fault, even though men are marrying at essentially the same age they did in 1900.

    He should be asking: what has caused women to start delaying marriage from the early 20’s to their late 20’s? If he could answer that question, he might actually be on the road to a solution.

  192. 8to12 says:

    Forgot to close the bold tag. :(

  193. Marcus,

    I think he only sees a subset of them.

    As I said, I think (I am going to guess) that he is counting ONLY the hits, and none of the misses. Even a “miss” is data, but that type of data does him no good if it doesn’t fit in his worldview.

    It would be like me saying that all kids do illegal drugs if I only counted the hits (kids that did drugs) and none of the misses (kids that do not nor have they ever did, drugs.)

  194. Anonymous age 71 says:

    Christians 4 Christ! says:
    December 15, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    >>” Her grandparents went to the US on a religious visa for two weeks”

    >>A religious visa? Care to explain?

    Nothing to explain . A religious visa. As I have said repeatedly, I live in Mexico. Four years ago, a local pastor obtained a religious visa to visit his son’s Baptist Church in Houston. So, I know they exist.

    To get it he had to produce a letter of invitation from that church to visit the church and speak.

    I would say that is a religious visa.

    Let me also say that Mexico immigration laws has a religious visa provision.

  195. Anonymous age 71 says:

    Have a religious visa provision. Bad grammar, sorry.

  196. tacomaster2 says:

    Marcus, I enjoy your random website links but how do you find these things? They are very random–feminist programming languages, Benjamin Franklin mistress advice, etc

  197. MarcusD says:

    @tacomaster2

    Usually it’s stuff I’ve read about before. I don’t watch TV (or play video games), so I spend the majority of my leisure time reading (physical materials, or online – I generally read anything that I come across). I keep a record of what I read, as well, so I do draw on that when it comes to posting things here.

  198. tacomaster2 says:

    @Marcus. I keep folders on my computer with stories I’ve read as well. I really need to print some of them out in case the website gets deleted or the article gets removed from the site. I like the postings by the way.

  199. RichardP says:

    Try saving the page in the folder, rather than just the link. That way, you can load the story onto your screen, even it the link to that story stops working.

  200. hoellenhund2 says:

    “Mark Driscoll is a wolf.”

    No. He’s a cunt.

  201. drakeveltair says:

    Question, are atheists allowed to comment here?

    [D: Of course. The manosphere is a big place.]

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