Beware the Cougar

H/T PUKEKO

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286 Responses to Beware the Cougar

  1. …just don’t marry them.

  2. BCBill says:

    Why?

  3. Mark says:

    @IBB

    Agreed!………………I have to wait for more comments on this subject….L*…….I know quite a few of the species and will have a lot to say…….don’t want Dalrock to ban me!….L*

  4. tz2026 says:

    [Rictus Grin]
    Classic.

    The Eurythmics? Well, “Sweet dreams are made of these, who am I to disagree”.

    On the other hand, her dream might be his nightmare.

  5. JCclimber says:

    That was hilarious!

  6. Just Saying says:

    Men: If YOU are old, short and/or ugly those young women in the club are making fun of you too. If she gives you her number, it’s a fake number, but go ahead and call. Maybe it’s not, and she’s just waiting for the call so she can laugh and hang up on you. Just thought you’d like to know. You’re being laughed at when you try to “game” women. But on the off chance you’re not — she’s just interested in your wallet — the thought of kissing an old ugly man makes me spit up in my mouth. But laugh at us if it makes you feel better just remember you’re being laughed at too.

  7. Johnycomelately says:

    Recent commercial from Oz making fun of stepfathers, it’s been a runaway hit.

    [D: Hilarious]

  8. xna232stang says:

    I’ve been sexually assaulted by cougars while out at the bar. Trust me, it’s a cool story, bro. I walked out to the smoke pit and the moment one of them laid her old, wrinkled eyes on me she grabbed me by the neck and kissed me on the mouth then let go and laughed with her friends. Like the sailor returning from World War 2 who grabbed a random woman to kiss, she violated me and made me a victim and it was awful or whatever.

    That’s all I have to say about cougars.

  9. John Galt says:

    @Just: Wow, bitter much?

  10. Just Saying doesn’t seem to think this is very funny. I think that maybe she hasn’t perused the relative SMV chart lately. Ouch. Some of these lessons may take a lifetime to sink in for self-identifying “cougars”.

  11. Ah, Steve clearly doesn’t mind. The old gal probably has more testosterone and hair on her chest than he does.

  12. I think that maybe she hasn’t perused the relative SMV chart lately.

    Maybe she has, hence the bitterness.

    I always get a kick out of the “Game doesn’t really work” crowd. As if guys all over would keep doing something and encourage all their friends to do it if the only results were fake phone numbers and chicks laughing in your face. But who are we gonna believe, a bitter cougar or our own lyin’ eyes?

  13. I could think of a blog that would make her eyes bug out. A certain IT guy in Great Britain comes to mind. Not a believer. He probably doesn’t have a clue either though.

  14. Just Saying says:

    I don’t know about bitter — could explain why I’m married to a great guy. I don’t know though maybe he likes old bitter cougars. Just like those beautiful young women just love OLD UGLY men cause someone made up a chart saying they did. And women give men fake numbers all the time, it’s a way to get rid of someone you’re not interested in without offending someone. I’ve never laughed in anyone’s face though — just can’t be that cruel to someone even if they are a pathetic “PUA”.

  15. Cane Caldo says:

    Hilarious. Thanks Dalrock and Chris.

    Stepdad ad was good, too. “…he’s a hard worker…and a careful driver.” Haha!

  16. oblivion says:

    @just saying, u sound like one of those witchy entitlement princesses. Why don’t u go back to your Barbie’s, or cook ur “man” some dinner and let the adults have a conversation snowflake. ;)

  17. BC says:

    Keep digging, Just Saying, keep digging.

  18. Just Saying says:

    What a bunch of delusional losers. And this is supposedly a “christian” site too.

  19. MarcusD says:

    @Just Saying
    Hmmm, interesting. Semantic analysis indicates that you are a female. There’s also a ~74% chance that you are between 13 and 25 years of age. Mostly negative sentiment. Upset mood. 97.4% “Feeling” on the Myers Briggs Judging function (and 2.6% on the “Thinking” score). Tonality is 97% personal/informal.

  20. steelreso says:

    Being old and ugly I can only say that I think that was a clever and funny video. I mean really, Murual of Omaha schtick poking fun at old broads stalking young guys. Merlin Perkins would love it.

  21. Matthew says:

    “And this is supposedly a ‘christian’ site too.”

    Talking point. So she’s either a plant or a witless dupe.

  22. Theodore Logan says:

    “What a bunch of delusional losers. And this is supposedly a “christian” site too.”

    @ Just Saying: You’re just projecting that you’re a lonely cat lady whom no man loves. It’s okay dear, Jesus still loves you. heh

  23. oblivion says:

    dont worry, its just about to be past snowflakes bedtime. she needs attention from us because her “man” isnt giving it to her.

  24. oblivion says:

    @matthew, please dont insult witless dupes by comparing them to just saying

  25. Just Saying? Would “Personal Jesus” approve of the term “delusional losers”? That doesn’t sound very loving to me. Have you had your six month checkup?

  26. oblivion says:

    @i art lauphing, to put this situation in a nutshell. aka “snowflake” just realized that the charade is over. through the manosphere we have reached a gender tipping point.(10% of the population realizing something, but we men only needed 5 %) What most refer to as the carosel, i refer to as musical chairs. the music stopped for her and she no longer has a place to sit down. she tried to shame us that we were ugly/old. that didnt work, so she tried to say that she had the value of male investment(marriage) to make her point. that also didnt work, so now she is saying that our christian values suck. (also didnt work) The last bastian of a scoundrel is patriotism, i cant wait for her next post lol

  27. Mark says:

    @JustSaying

    “”What a bunch of delusional losers. And this is supposedly a “christian” site too””

    I am a Jewish delusional loser…..L*

  28. what a bunch of delusional losers, to see humor in this obviously humorous video! says the anonymous idiot.

  29. Tilikum says:

    @just saying

    its ego crushing to have this stuff be true while you have been fed a facade in regards to your value, and what you actually deserve as a female, if you are one.

    it gets easier, promise. kisses :)

  30. jlw says:

    Whatever is behind Just Saying’s sayings…she’s right. Short, old, poor, and/or ugly guys don’t get hotties, game or no. When the shortcomings of the male in the SMP start to cluster, game is not going to overcome all the problems.

  31. Random Angeleno says:

    I am a delusional loser. Like Mark before me. Like nooneofanyimport before me.
    I stand broken and fallen. But my eyes are wide open and I am not fooled.

    Great cougar spoof. And that ad from Oz… that was funny too.

  32. Ceer says:

    Young women often try to label men like this as “creepy” but when the men try to do something similar, they try to get that banned. Just goes to show how dedicated they are to free speech.

    @ Just Saying

    You can deny game all you want. All it boils down to is a technique to help men interact with women. Why would men feel that such a thing would be necessary if women interacted with them in a socially proper manner?

    I’m sure you get a kick out of calling the men on this site losers, thinking you’ve proven we don’t deserve to be treated with respect, or whatever. All we see is another lonely attention seeking woman who’s angry about being rejected by the men she finds acceptable. We feel sad for you. Many of us go through a dark phase too, but being horrible to others just makes your situation worse.

    Game is a tool designed to help men put the proper emotionality into their actions that women respond to. It’s not good or evil. Thing is, most men who really need it just want to be able to form a loving relationship.

    Maybe you’ve been hurt by a man. That’s unfortunate; it happens sometimes. Going forward, would you rather attack good men who are trying to do their best to develop social skills for relationships, or would you like to attack them, leaving the field open for more unscrupulous types?

  33. Mark says:

    @oblivion

    “”she tried to shame us that we were ugly/old. that didnt work, so she tried to say that she had the value of male investment(marriage) to make her point. that also didnt work, so now she is saying that our christian values suck. (also didnt work)””

    Exactly,……..you might say that she “epitomizes” everything that this site is about.

  34. alcestiseshtemoa says:

    LOL!

  35. bios says:

    I’m short, balding, and 35, and i would never date an older woman. Why? Because i don’t have to. Even i have options. If a guy like me has options, what is a tall hot man with a full head of hair have?

    I don’t care about attracting 25 year old hotties. I just want a woman i am attracted to, and i have no problem attracting women who are in their late 20’s, and occasionally even younger, because i have an attractive, relatively young looking face. I make slightly above average income, that’s all. I’m not rich and probably never will be, but men that dress well and have good social skills do well in the SMP.

    Cougars are a joke. They are even worse than an older man chasing younger women because they are exploiting the inequities in the dating market for younger men. Most cougars attract the average men that is ignored by most females in his looks range – bottom line. If younger women weren’t chasing the top men, cougars wouldn’t even get a look in.

  36. Cougars get laid because A) lot of men who are out looking for sex will take what they can get rather than go home alone, B) they’re easy, and C) alcohol creates beer goggles and poor judgment. Also, there will always be a certain number of inexperienced young men who are too unsure of themselves to take the lead with a younger woman, so the idea of one who “knows what she wants” is appealing to them. It’s a modern version of the old “dad takes son to a prostitute to break him in” story, except cougars are free.

    Of course, none of this has anything to do with romance or relationships; these young men are going home with cougars strictly for willing sex (no 25-year-old man in bed with a 45-year-old cougar ever hears, “No, I don’t do XYZ”) and nothing more. She’ll be lucky if he sticks around long enough to cuddle afterwards. But that’s what the hamster is for.

  37. Feminist Hater says:

    All aboard the Cougar Express! Just Saying will be your train conductor for the rest of your journey. As she told me before rejecting me for being ugly and too gamma, “The first one is on the house!”.

    The solution is very simple, don’t get married, especially if you’re not attractive.

  38. “Hard butter….what a mess it makes”

  39. no 25-year-old man in bed with a 45-year-old cougar ever hears, “No, I don’t do XYZ

    Also true when a 45 year old man is in bed with a 25 year old woman

  40. Hahaha!
    There’s an awesome quote that’s been posted here, recently, and it really fits the video.

    “Never marry a woman over 30″

    A.J.P.

  41. Feminist Hater says:

    http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/police-storm-homeschool-class-take-children-by-force/

    A big thank you is in order for the United States Government!

  42. Funny video.

    The comment by jlw got me thinking. Although men do have a SMV,, it’s not nearly as important as SMV is for women. Because men also have intrinsic value by virtue of being men. Women must offer sex and reproduction and helpfulness to men in order to receive this Intrinsic Man Value (IMV). Men don’t need women anymore once they’ve been born, but women need men for survival. So SMV really isn’t all that important unless your a woman. Then it is crucial or else your survival is at stake. Unless you live in a feminist society that can steal from men and redistribute to women. Then women don’t really have to worry about their SMV. Which is exactly what we see happening. Most women in feminist societies would have trouble attracting men in a more traditional society.

  43. Mario says:

    @Just Saying:

    Enjoy these MGTOW/midlife crisis videos (which one are you in?):

  44. Buck says:

    Cougars are nothing but sexual training wheels for horny young men, but they also offer laughs for older men, family and friends…delusional people are fun to watch!

  45. Legion says:

    Matthew says:
    August 30, 2013 at 9:57 pm

    Why not a witless plant?

  46. FuriousFerret says:

    “Whatever is behind Just Saying’s sayings…she’s right. Short, old, poor, and/or ugly guys don’t get hotties, game or no. When the shortcomings of the male in the SMP start to cluster, game is not going to overcome all the problems.”

    People need a reminder here:

    http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/09/18/how-much-can-game-do/

  47. Martian Bachelor says:

    If streetwalkers are the fast food of sex, and escorts the steak dinner of sex, then cougars would be the soup kitchen of sex.

    It’s not quite like the gummint food stamp program, but what do you expect when women are trying to run things their way?

  48. Norm says:

    False positive pregnancy test results for sale on Craigslist for $20.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2407401/Women-sell-positive-pregnancy-tests-Craigslist-25-each.html

    Another reason to avoid cougars and to get a DNA test. How many men will be trapped into getting married to a woman who buys one of these fake results. Fraud in the first degree.

  49. “Just” is attaching the adjective “ugly” to her equation as an attempted reframe, as if most older men are ugly in the same way that cougars are ugly. Certainly there are “ugly” men that can measure up to the ugly of a cougar but they aren’t in any kind of majority and clearly not what we are talking about here. The intimation is that men are acting as foolishly as cougars, the facts don’t bear this out, especially amongst the red-pill brethren.

    A piece of advice “Just”, if you are still married stay married and appreciate the man you have, in all likelihood it only gets worse from there. Don’t be that cougar.

  50. jlw says:

    Thanks FuriousFerret for the reminder! I have seen that article. I agree with the article that you link to, and specifically, I agree that, with game, the (thankfully) small number of omega dregs can get 1s and 2s. Whether they *want* that 1s and 2s is another matter. I sure didn’t when I was young.

  51. FuriousFerret says:

    jlw, don’t you have 200 dollars?

  52. feeriker says:

    @ Just Saying:

    Did something strike a raw nerve, sweetie?

  53. feeriker says:

    Just Saying said: And women give men fake numbers all the time, it’s a way to get rid of someone you’re not interested in without offending someone. I’ve never laughed in anyone’s face though — just can’t be that cruel to someone even if they are a pathetic “PUA”.

    Hamsterlation (deti, I don’t know if you’ve weighed in on this, as I haven’t looked at the entire response thread yet, but feel free to override my take below, as your hamsterlator is the gold standard):

    “In all my years of hanging around bars, my last resort in my desperate attempt to gain a man’s –any man’s– attention, I never once had so much as one of them ask for my number. But if any of them ever finallywould have at some point, you can be damned sure that what I would’ve given them would’ve been the number for a gay bar, a urology clinic, a geriatric center, a local SPCA shelter, or any other number that would’ve expressed my contempt for them for ignoring me for so long.

    “How dare they shun my fine-wine-aged female form! They’re gonna laugh in MY face? Well, two can play THAT game! They’re probably all really just gay men posturing an attraction for women. How could they be straight if they rejected ME?”

  54. Uncle Elmer says:

    Refer to R.Don Steele’s “How to Date Young Women for Men Over 35, Volumes I and II”.

    Just sayin.

  55. Solomon says:

    @Cail

    “It’s a modern version of the old “dad takes son to a prostitute to break him in” story, except cougars are free.”

    snap.

  56. Chris says:

    There is a history behind this advt. It was made by the national airline (Grab – a – Seat is a system of deeply discounting empty domestic flights) and released on youtube. The feminists howled, and it was pulled.

    If you lived in Auckland during the 80s and 90s, as I did, you knew all the various watering holes mentioned — because they were all meat markets, and not a place for a quiet conversation or a drink. This gives the background.

  57. Hug Schmug says:

    I like this blog. I like reading things that men give thought to. That being said, in this case, I would be classified as a “cougar”, but I don’t hit on young men and I don’t go out prowling for young men. I just stumbled upon this site, and I have been divorced for many, many years….
    I need to say my experience in the dating/mating world is not like the one being portrayed here. I wholeheartedly agree women should stay fit if they want to attract a mate after a certain age. She should also not be bitter or nasty or digging for gold. (If she is young, and you are 10+ years older, yep, digging for gold, but keep telling yourself she isn’t. Look around and see how many hot single women are dating older men who are poor. Next to none, except on the pesky porn sites that keep male fantasy up and ready.)

    On the other hand, I have a large social circle; there are a lot of married men and women who tell me they rarely have sex. Ouch. Lots of horny married men out there. But how would good guys like you know about those guys? I can tell you they are the norm, not the exception, in my world.

    Unless his age, looks, charm and marital status match what I want, the answer is “no”. Or it has been. Maybe I need to rethink my thinking? Because if I’m reading this correctly, “any” man is better than “no” man? That is how a woman is supposed to think? If I don’t pony up when “any” man bestows his eyes upon me, cat piss is my only recourse?

    I see, this could be dire. Hmmm. And those young guys that hit on me…here I was thinking it’s because their genes just can’t say no to a pretty woman. But no, you are here to set me straight. It would “just” be a one night stand, no cuddling provided. Double hmmm. So what was up with the cute 30ish guy who told me he wants to hang out with me all day on Sunday? (I suspect he thinks it will lead to Sunday night, but again, that pesky AARP study says this is almost impossible.) I’m just wondering if men are as honest as women when a “study” asks them when the last time they had “sexual” touch was? Wouldn’t a man think back to his lunchtime porn session and check the ‘today’ box? Or isn’t it a tad more embarrassing in the ‘locker-room’ boasting so common among men to admit it has been ‘years’ with no partner sexual touch?

    I understand, women watch porn like EPL and think they can translate it into their everyday life. EPL mad me want to vomit, too. Men watch internet porn. “That” is any more real? Every babe is dying to have sex with middle aged salesmen? Really? So sad to think we are raising a generation of young boys who will never get married since…babes are horny and willing and able! It would be a shame for them to grow up with no skills, no job prospects, living in their parent’s basement playing internet games and watching porn, only to wake up one day and realize ‘real’ women aren’t attracted to their fat bellies and lack of conversation skills . What to do?

    Ugly, balding, broke, bitter, can’t get it up driving a crap car man is as invisible to me ( and women in my circle, you know; the ones you try your PUA skills on) as those chubby AARP sexless harpies are to you. It would be heartless to write blogs about how awful his life is going to be unless he attaches to ANY woman, don’t you think?

    I have to blame my Dad. He instilled that work ethic in me and told me to never be dependent on…a man. As a Mother, I certainly don’t want a gold digger to attach herself to one of my exceptional sons, neither do I want a lazy misogynist to marry my exceptionally pretty and educated daughter. My daughter and her friends keep me apprised of the middle age crisis men they meet and work with who are oh…so…desperate too; acting way worse than this cougar video could even begin to sum…. So….again….

    Can’t we all agree that one must stay in shape, use basic hygiene skills, (Old men + too much cologne= Old cat lady smell) not be a sleaze to the opposite sex, try to be moral in an immoral world, (do unto others)…and above all have a high credit score….yeah, the chances of finding a second life partner if that appeals to you…off the charts. No PUA or Cougar shenanigans needed.

    And AARP can kiss my sweet ass, cuz I know I’m getting more than most 20 year olds! Hug schmug. Playa please!

  58. James Wolfe says:

    Women who are against game just don’t understand it. They think only fat old ugly men use game to get women they could never achieve by any other means. Game is played by men who care about their appearance, who work out, who have ambition and goals, and are confident in themselves. When a man is gaming a woman, if he’s good and confident in his game, she will never know its even happening. She will just think she’s doing great, that she’s found a man who’s really interested in her, and the hamsters will be spinning at top speed thinking of how she is going to lasso this one. And when he pumps and dumps her she is shocked! And the excuses will pore in. It was she who was using him, girl power, fish bicycle, etc.

    Older men like me who have been married and survived our cheating wives or younger men who have decided to just avoid the whole nightmare of marriage and divorce don’t need game. We are immune to cougar power. We’re only out to have a beer with friends and to pass our knowledge on to those who have not yet discovered there is no spoon. Shaming does not work on us. We see straight through the lies to the trap waiting on the other side. There is no carrot or stick that will convince us to stick our neck into that collar.

    Anger at the truth is just another form of denial. The wall is approaching quickly.

  59. Michael says:

    The title says it all.

    The slang word “cougar” should have no place in modern speech. A “cougar” is a predator. That’s the only thing people should need to know.

  60. Michael says:

    HAHAHAHA
    HAHAHAHA

    That was really funny!

    Why does it have to be banned though? It’s true!

  61. Michael says:

    @ xna232stang

    I would’ve filed assault charges against her just to make the news..

  62. ut no, you are here to set me straight. It would “just” be a one night stand, no cuddling provided. Double hmmm.

    Take you pick Hug Schmug, it doesn’t sound like you are really in the market for a red-pill Christian man so you can either get yourself a “Steve” (a hard worker and a careful driver) and shovel blue pills at him for your Sunday cuddles or keep driving you diminishing SMV down to the “pump-n-dump”. Suggesting that you can still draw 30 year old beta cuddles is something apart from denying that you are not also receiving 45 year old alpha pump and dumps.

  63. Sieve of Eratosthenes says:

    @Hug Schmug

    “I would be classified as a “cougar”, but I don’t hit on young men and I don’t go out prowling for young men”
    Then you are not a cougar.

    “If she is young, and you are 10+ years older, yep, digging for gold, but keep telling yourself she isn’t. Look around and see how many hot single women are dating older men who are poor”
    Poor guys, perhaps not. But not necessarily rich ones. Ten year differences aren’t rare.

    “there are a lot of married men and women who tell me they rarely have sex”
    They desperately need to read Athol Kay’s blog. And they need to man the fuck up.

    “Because if I’m reading this correctly, “any” man is better than “no” man? That is how a woman is supposed to think? If I don’t pony up when “any” man bestows his eyes upon me, cat piss is my only recourse?”
    I agree that there is a lot of nonsense in the comments of this thread.

    “It would be a shame for them to grow up with no skills, no job prospects, living in their parent’s basement playing internet games and watching porn, only to wake up one day and realize ‘real’ women aren’t attracted to their fat bellies and lack of conversation skills . What to do?”
    Take responsibility for their lives, learn game, lose weight, and man the fuck up. That’s what I had to do. It’s hard, but men were made to hard things. Any man who refuses the challenge is no man at all. The alternative is a very slow death.

    “Can’t we all agree that one must stay in shape, use basic hygiene skills, (Old men + too much cologne= Old cat lady smell) not be a sleaze to the opposite sex, try to be moral in an immoral world, (do unto others)…and above all have a high credit score….yeah, the chances of finding a second life partner if that appeals to you…off the charts. No PUA or Cougar shenanigans needed.”
    Almost, but not quite. Men need to learn how to be masculine, and that’s what game is about. Women need be feminine.

  64. feeriker says:

    That being said, in this case, I would be classified as a “cougar”, but I don’t hit on young men and I don’t go out prowling for young men.

    Since the very definition of a “cougar” is an older woman who hits on younger men and goes out prowling for them, it looks like you’ll have to find another classification with which to describe yourself.

  65. oblivion says:

    Hugsmug, nawalt doesn’t work around here, and btw a girl dates a man 10yrs older than her for a variety of reasons. Yes money is important because money is power and women like powerful men. But u know what? Women like power to, so how much money did u make off your divorce? how did your well adjusted children take? I’m betting that u couldnt find a better man after u go your 40 pieces of silver. gentlemen if u observe women in their personal lives with other women there’s always a few little compliments before they start sticking knives in each other. Hugsmug tried to camouflage her hamster, but it ain’t working here.

  66. Buck says:

    Hug Schmug, look, it’s really very simple. Women are sexual “receivers”, men are the “deliverers,” by pure mechanics. Unless a women is Hillary Clinton ugly, or dripping with mouth sores and VD, she need simply announce she’s down-to-F@*K and she will have a line of protein providers ready to donate. This says absolutely nothing about her prowess, just her availability.
    Yes, ugly men have it MUCH worse than ugly women in attaining sexual partners…during their respective prime years, but an ugly man, who simply waits, can get all the ugly old ass he wants once the aging hags become sexually invisible to the majority of mid-line men.
    That brief window of time when a cougar is the sexual training wheels for young horny men is the last pathetic gasp of an ego gone delusional. The hangover is fearsome; alcoholism, drug abuse, suicide, loneliness.
    I’m thinking of a friend who had a big graduation party for their college age daughter. The hostess’s mother is a delusional cougar who brought her latest sperm donor and crashed the party. The cougar’s daughter did not invite her and her John, and the cougar (65 with her 40 something loser unemployed sperm provider) made a drunken ass of herself. The host was compelled to toss these two buffoons out when they started a big shouting match, seems Mr 40 something was hitting on the hot young college chicks.
    The hostess was mortified and confided in my Mrs that she is so embarrassed of her mother that they have had no contact in 20+ years. Hostess did not want her pathetic cougar mother to in any way influencing hostess’s daughters.

  67. Something that

    @Hug Schmug said really got my attention.

    “… my… educated daughter”

    What is the point if she is going to be a mother and a home-maker? To work part-time before the children are born?

    Come on @Hug Shmug… inquiring minds want to know.

    A.J.P.

  68. Mark says:

    @hugScmuck

    “”My daughter and her friends keep me apprised of the middle age crisis men they meet and work with who are oh…so…desperate too; acting way worse than this cougar video could even begin to sum””

    Really?…….Maybe you should pay attention to how the “young ones” act. I see them all the time….”That is a nice car you have….would you take me for a ride in it sometime?”……you don’t have to ask for a BJ….they will offer!…….”I hear your office is hiring a new receptionist?…can I apply?…..hire me and we will get along great!”……..Hamsterlation Translation……”Hire me and the BJ’s will be a plenty”…….My friends and I see this all the time…everyday!….So you should get off your high horse…..aka….get your stupid head out of your ass!

  69. Mark says:

    @Oblivion

    “”Yes money is important because money is power and women like powerful men. “”

    Bingo!

    To make a long story short…….In our Office Tower we have security guards that mainly stay in the lower floors of the Mall and the banks. Anyhoo,this one guard(nice guy)….50,5’8″,bald,dumpy…etc..etc….he gets more poon than you can imagine.He stays away from the “Hawt” ones….they are useless idiots(so he tells me)…..he goes after the “heavy ones”…and he SCORES BIG!…….A few years ago I was talking to him walking through the Mall and he was going on a coffee break with a woman he met.I said to him,when he pointed her out…”you seem to like the heavy set ones….good luck pal”….he replied to me….”the HOT ones are the delusional idiots…the heavy ones are just screaming for c**k.”…..I replied…”really?…..you know this?”…….he said ….”for sure….the HOT ones you have to wine and dine them….put up with all their insecurities etc……the heavy ones are easy…..all you have to do is roll them in flour and look for the wet spot”…….L*…..this guy is slowly and surely becoming and idle of mine!…….L*

  70. Opus says:

    Amongst the many women who come here to tell us men how fabulous they are and that we are miserable losers, Hug Schmug’s seven-paragraph mini-essay above has got to be one of the most incoherent and contradictory pieces of attempted shaming that we have seen here in a while. Hamster exhaustion seems imminent though the responses to her verbiage will doubtless keep the tears away for a while.

  71. Mark says:

    @Opus

    “”Amongst the many women who come here to tell us men how fabulous they are and that we are miserable losers, Hug Schmug’s seven-paragraph mini-essay above has got to be one of the most incoherent and contradictory pieces of attempted shaming that we have seen here in a while. Hamster exhaustion seems imminent though the responses to her verbiage will doubtless keep the tears away for a while.””

    Bravo!…….Bravo!……..**Bows in your presence**………Awesome post my friend…..just awesome!

  72. Mark says:

    @Michael

    “”A “cougar” is a predator.””

    Congrats Michael!…………I do believe that this quote has summed up Dalrock’s entire thread!

  73. MarcusD says:

    What I find interesting is that “Just Saying” and “Hug Schmug” have the same semantic profile.

  74. Mark says:

    @MarcusD

    “”What I find interesting is that “Just Saying” and “Hug Schmug” have the same semantic profile.””

    Agreed!……I am just waiting for Deti and his Hamsterlator …….I think he has it on “charge”…

  75. Michael says:

    Lol @ hug Schmug

  76. Tom says:

    Holy cow. In just her first two comments, Just Saying managed to prove correct the entire combined works of Dalrock, Roissy, Rollo, Vox, Roosh, Mystery, and Athol. In a better world, she’d get an award of some kind.

  77. TFH says:

    Rollo’s SMV chart should be plastered all over the Internet. It is the most concise way to put a delusional woman (like the ones commenting on this thread) in their place.

    Y’all should be doing more to post this chart everywhere (outside the androsphere). It carries immense bang for the buck in reality-check value for women.

  78. Opus says:

    The cougar video is very funny, and like most good jokes it is amusing because it rings true – all too true. I recall that when I was about the same age as the unfortunate guy in the video, being pursued by a tallish woman in her early forties who could not but have noticed that I had zero desire for her largely because over a period of time I kept rejecting her advances (I thought she looks like a horse) despite what turned out to be a fine body, but I was a young guy and so, eventually…

    In the Manosphere we often imply that woman merely need a pulse and a vagina, but that is perhaps pushing a basic idea to its unrealistic extreme. Consider the Cougar in the video: she is firstly, tall; that enables her to be domineering in the way that shorter fatter women (her friends) aren’t. She can dominate and get what she wants and will use that fact to raise her status amongst her female friends. Secondly she is slim. Thirdly she is not (age adjusted) unattractive. Fourthly; and I finds this most appealing, she has excellent posture and poise.

    What the Video Cougar fails to notice is that although it is almost impossible for a guy to turn down an offer of free sex especially when coming from an aggressive determined voracious woman, that does not mean that the guy has any real sexual or indeed other desire for the woman herself and views her as somewhere between disgusting and absurd. He will not be asking for her number or suggesting a repeat encounter, and would be the butt of his friends jokes were he to do so. Scoring with a cougar does not raise ones status with ones males friends but has to be passed off as a regrettable but inevitable occurrence. In my case I was merely going through the motions. I had as I mentioned no desire and was doubtless very disappointing to her, although I recall that she asked me to repeat my performance there and then – I declined.

  79. Ahem *cough* *cough*… I wrote a poem titled An Anthem for Cougar’s a poem, enjoy guys … lol

    Their souls gray

    And their hearts blackened, from lack of instruction

    Sexual justification instead of biology, turned into a mental illness

    Preying on younger guys for validation … geriatric hags

    Retarded sluts of the world unite & form a cat farm co-op … lol

  80. Feminist Hater says:

    Rmax, they can call it a Catbbutz!

  81. @FH

    lol a Catbbutz?! … as in catbutlinz holiday camps? These damn cougars, they’re real categorical label should be geriatric hags …

    @Hugs Schmugs

    Enjoy your cat piss … lol

    You’re going to need those cats, when you run out of coal & batteries, & toilet paper …

    I find it humorous the cat lady’s lifestyle used to be financed by relatives, now its white men at gun point …

    How progressive & liberal of the aging geriatric 40 yr old grannies …

    At least they knit theyre own underwear … skills!!!

    Nothing like the danger of dentures trapping your weiner, in the middle of a blowjob …

  82. BC says:

    Have to include this in case of cougar attacks.

  83. They Call Me Tom says:

    Cougars are apparently as old as ‘Daphnes and Chloe’, ancient Greece. I didn’t ride that train when I was a young lad, because back then I was looking for something that I could see myself staying with, and a cougar doesn’t fit that equation in the end.

  84. GT66 says:

    Just Saying says: “What a bunch of delusional losers. And this is supposedly a “christian” site too.”
    I’m a heathen. I just come by for the schadenfreude – sweet, sweet schadenfreude. Thanks for the hit, bimbo!

  85. LiveFearless says:

    ‘Fifty Shades of Grey’ movie announces cast today. Related to this article? Someone bought 70 million impressions of ‘Fifty Shades’ in an eight month period during 2012 Dakota Johnson, 23 – Don Johnson & Melanie Griffith’s daughter to play Anastasia Steele in ‘Fifty Shades of Grey’ movie. A lot of people have likely been taking something similar to NZT-48 attempting to figure out which person had already been chosen. After the announcement of Ryan Seacrest’s ‘Dream Date’…Charlie Hunnam is Christian Grey

  86. John says:

    The hottest and most tempting cougar ever was probably Mrs. Robinson in The Graduate.

    Fortunately, in the real world, they’re usually nothing like her.

  87. BC says:

    @BonusCoverage: Thank you, that was the perfect follow-up video to the OP cougar video. I am still laughing.

    -The other BC

  88. pb says:

    The campaign against slut-shaming continues: http://unslutproject.com
    http://kck.st/13TWLJ3

  89. Martian Bachelor says:

    At least in Match.comLand cougars turned out to be largely a myth. Someone analyzed peoples’ stated age preferences in their dating site profiles, and very few women consider men who are younger by more than only a few years. The media has sold everyone a very glammed up and hyped idea, which women obviously like to believe, namely that they’re still “hot” peri- and post-menopausal.

    On one of the single’s forums there were a bunch of 40+ y.o. women complaining about the 18-28 y.o.’s messaging them. I tried to explain to the hamster that a guy that age looks at the average woman that age and sees someone so unattractive that he figures she must be so lacking in male attention that she must be “desperate” (easy), especially against the backdrop of hearing how women need/want/enjoy sex just as much as men, which he hears to mean she’s gotta be horny. So they have something in common! (Equally low SMV – quite the opposite of the manther with the woman half his age.) The wimminz had it all twisted around as if it were flattery, rather than its opposite.

    So it’s no surprise they think it’s some virtue that they’re not interested in these guys, which they never fail to bring up.

    I think that graph needs to include non-positive numbers along the vertical scale to actually reflect the reality of the (rare) cougar, which women’s minds really aren’t equipped to handle.

  90. Mark says:

    “Sex After 40 a Rare Event For Single Women”……………..This article tends to contradict the “cougar theory” and mentality.But,also validates the notion that the media plays a large part….a good read!

    http://www.aphroditewomenshealth.com/news/20060407234916_health_news.shtml

    [D: Good find. Thanks.]

  91. Quite an interesting post from the @Martian Bachelor… I wonder where those non-positive numbers might go. Negatives for the 18-28 men?

    A.J.P.

  92. 8to12 says:

    @Mark,

    After an entire article based on facts, they just couldn’t resist abandoning all common sense and reason and contradict themselves with the last paragraph:

    But the grim outlook for middle-aged single women may change in the future as younger Baby Boomers age and Generation X enters middle age. “We will probably see an increase in mass media and other market-driven institutions catering to this sizable group so new cultural images of middle-aged and older women and men may emerge, which could have an impact on younger generations’ views on sexual desire and activity in later life,” Carpenter said. “Baby Boomers and Generation X typically have more liberal sexual attitudes and behaviors – so we may see a decline in the number of women, and men, who do not seek sexual partners because of conservative views regarding sex outside of marriage,” she concluded.

    May,probably, could–these are wishful thinking, not research.

    — Never marry a woman over 30. –

  93. slwerner says:

    @Dalrock:

    Just got back from a long weekend away, and I haven’t had time to catch up on all the comments, so this may be a repeat of info you have already received, but….

    “During this deeply insightful interview,(the late?) Chuck Colson and John Stonestreet join Glenn T. Stanton (one of your favorite Churchians) to discuss why the ring matters, and why according to solid research, cohabitation is a bad idea.”

  94. deti says:

    Feeriker, Aug. 31 hamsterlation:

    Well done.

    As your reward, attached to this combox is your very own Q36B Space Hamsterlator, version 2.0. Please review the owner’s manual and operator’s instructions carefully before using.

    WARRANTY DISCLAIMER

    Use of this hamsterlator can cause screaming, yelling, crying, shouting, and rocking in corners in the fetal position. Deti Industries Inc. assumes no responsibility for the use of this hamsterlator. We don’t know how you’re going to use this product, and frankly, we don’t care. If it doesn’t work, it’s because you’re not using it right. There is no warranty for this product. All warranties are expressly disclaimed, including warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose, because you can use this damn thing for anything you want, anywhere.

  95. deti says:

    “ Unless his age, looks, charm and marital status match what I want, the answer is “no”. Or it has been. Maybe I need to rethink my thinking? Because if I’m reading this correctly, “any” man is better than “no” man? That is how a woman is supposed to think? If I don’t pony up when “any” man bestows his eyes upon me, cat piss is my only recourse?”

    Cougars are all about validation and continued affirmation of their own worth as women.

    The archetype of the 40s or 50s woman, divorced or very unhappily married, post-Wall, once smokin’ hot now somewhat sexually attractive, sexually frustrated, hypersexual and sexually available woman is a popular one. She’s sexually available because she wants to confirm for herself that she’s still got it, that she can still score the hot college student with the washboard abs even if it’s just for a romp in the sack. For some of these women, their sexual availability is the only thing they have of value. Their bodies and their offering them up for fast sex are the only things they bring to the table.

    The sex is all the male recipients want. These women offer themselves up for younger more inexperienced men to cut their teeth on sexually; or as receptacles for a hard up alpha or alpha wannabe. But the women get the validation they want from knowing they are still sexual beings and are sexually desired, albeit by an ever shrinking pool of men.

  96. slwerner says:

    RE: September 3, 2013 at 9:14 am
    Linked URL seems to have been deleted:

    A Poor Substitute for Marriage
    The Downside of Cohabiting

    [D: Thanks! I'll take a look at it.]

  97. feeriker says:

    @deti:

    You honor me, friend! Thank you for your precious gift! In deference to your uncontested status as the expert in the science of hamsterlation, however, I hereby pledge to use this gift sparingly, and then ONLY if you, the master, are somehow unavailable to provide your usual state-of-the-science product.

  98. slw, good article on cohabitation. Problem with it is that it does not discuss (or even acknowledge)what I believe to be the main reason why couples co-habitate instead of marry: money.

    What I’ve found in knowing so many couples who say they are “in love” but wind up living together, they do so because of debt. She owes $15K on the credit cards, she owes $26K on the student loans, and he might not owe anything. So right off the bat, he is hesistant to marry her (even if he loves her) because he doesn’t want to marry her debt, too risky. So they talk about it and he determines (rationally) that with what she is paying for her apartment, her utilities, her cable, her internet, everything, there simply is no other monthly money remaining for her to pay down any of her self-imposed debt, they she will ALWAYS be in debt. She can never escape it (can only bankrupt herself out of half of it.) So he moves her in to his place so all those things she was paying, all those bills are now gone and that money can be focused on debt reduction.

    The reverse could also be true (he owes thousands and she doesn’t and she wont marry his debt.) The only difference here being I have a hard time believing many women hanging in there (the way a man might) to make the relationship work once he tells her about his fiscal irresponsibility.

    I am not certain that the authors of that article did very much research on the main reasons why men and women live together (in sin.) I think they came to the conclusions that they liked that agree with their worldview and simply went with that. I think the culprit is less lust and trial marriages and more money.

  99. Dalrock says:

    @MarcusD

    What I find interesting is that “Just Saying” and “Hug Schmug” have the same semantic profile.

    I double checked and their IP addresses are in different states.

  100. MarcusD says:

    @Dalrock

    Thanks for letting us know. And yes, it’s still possible for them to be different people (just increasingly unlikely as the similarity grows).

    OT: Since when can blog administrators check IP addresses on WordPress? Or am I just used to Blogger/Blogspot?

  101. MarcusD says:

    @Mark and Dalrock:

    The study from that article:

    This article examines the relationship between gender and heterosexual partnering in midlife, using survey data from 1240 women and men aged 40 to 59. Although older ages are associated with lower numbers of sexual partners for both genders, larger proportions of women report having no partners, and at earlier ages than men. Sexual conservatism and non-cohabitation predict lower numbers of partners for both genders, albeit in different ways. Age’s differential effects by gender are not reducible to greater conservatism among older cohorts of women or to age-gender patterns in cohabitation, suggesting that ageism and sexism combine to middle-aged women’s particular disadvantage.

    Carpenter, Laura M., Constance A. Nathanson, and Young J. Kim. “Sex after 40?: Gender, ageism, and sexual partnering in midlife.” Journal of Aging Studies 20.2 (2006): 93-106.

  102. Second Opus’ review of HugSmug tome. I haven’t any idea what she said, who the characters in the story are, who the bit players were, what was happening, what judgement was being passed down.
    If that guy is going to hang out Sunday and listen to that kind of thing he dang well better get something for it.

  103. Dalrock says:

    @Deti

    The sex is all the male recipients want. These women offer themselves up for younger more inexperienced men to cut their teeth on sexually; or as receptacles for a hard up alpha or alpha wannabe. But the women get the validation they want from knowing they are still sexual beings and are sexually desired, albeit by an ever shrinking pool of men.

    This reminded me of Lorraine Berry writing about how divorce at 38 made her sexy.

    To my astonishment and delight, the first man I became involved with was 24 — 14 years younger than me. For more than a year, on the weekends when my children were with their father, I spent a lot of time in bed with this young man.

    My last date with the young man was on my 40th birthday. We were not going to end up together, and it was time for him to start dating women who were potential marriage partners. I knew I had to let go of him, but I wanted to hold on to this newfound sense of myself as I moved on dating men my own age.

    Kinda rough that he dumped her the day she turned 40.

    Now she assumes the man she lives with has a greater commitment to her than she did to the man she married and had kids with:

    For the past three years, I have loved and been loved by the man I assume to be my life partner. As I approach 50, my desire for him has not waned.

  104. “Hamsterlator”

    1. A translator for what the hamster is trying to say from within the human female

    2. Space-age technological raygun that reduces the female rationalization hamster to a smoldering pile of burnt hair and meat.

    L.O.L. good work @Feeriker.

    Best regards,

    A.J.P.

  105. Dalrock,

    Why did you mention Lorraine Berry? She’s a nobody. Seriously. Here is her latest post.

    http://www.salon.com/2013/04/01/walking_dead_still_a_white_patriarchy/

    The Walking Dead? Seriously? And she’s angry about the writers and their Patriarchy? She’s insane. She’s a nobody Dalrock, a broken, empty vassal, a no one who is angry at herself for not amounting to anything (and she blames our gender for it.)

  106. deti says:

    IBB:

    “Why did you mention Lorraine Berry?”

    See, if you read the post Dalrock wrote on Berry a while ago, she points up what’s really going on with cougars. Cougars might think they’re strong, empowered, you go grrrrl, independent women. That’s the delusion of divorce for greener pastures – that the beautiful, perfect man to replace schlub-hub will be just around the corner. She believes she is still as hot at 41 as she was at 21. She thinks she can still pull the same kind of attractive men 20 years past her sexual prime.

    That’s the cruel thing about this entire phenom. It’s awful for women. The fact of the matter is that most women ARE NOT as attractive 20 years past their primes, and they cannot attract high status men. They just can’t. The best that most of them can do is pull inexperienced men for one night stands or flings, and that’s assuming they’re attractive enough for quick sex. But the quick sex with good looking young men is playacting at who she used to be. She can’t get these men for commitment. She says she doesn’t want anything more than boytoys; she’s enjoying life, playing the field. But that’s hamsterbation. She wants commitment from these good looking or high status men but a lot of them find they can’t get that commitment.

    That’s the whole point. The cougar is frustrated in her goal at serial monogamy, so she tarts up and tries for the next best thing – validation in the form of sex with good looking men or high status men, so that she can show she’s still “got it”, she can still pull; she’s still attractive; she’s not irrelevant; not consigned to the granny pasture.

  107. Deti,

    I read the post. I read what Lorraine said. She’s insane. But I don’t get the impression at all that she believes for one second that she is still as hot at 41 as she was at 21.

    Here is the impression I get: I’m bored with my husband and I want to f-ck other guys the way older men get bored with their wives and want to f-ck other women. She is angry at the Patriarchy so this is here way to get even with it. She is f-cking for conquest. That’s it. That is a cougar. I don’t think for one second she is interested in commitment or marriage. She’s been that route and she didn’t like it. She wants to keep playing the field. The higher her-N, the higher her value among her peers, the Hell with what men think.

    Moreover, because of frivorce law, she probably get a monthly check from her ex-husband. She jeapordizes that if she remarries so their is a financial incentive to stay single and f-ck as many different guys as possible. So no, I would have to say that she does not want commitment from good looking or high status men (and a man 14 years younger than her is not high status Deti.)

    She is doing what she is doing for the thrill. It’s exciting to these women to sample as many cocks as possible, different shapes and sizes. The cougar is not committed and is not the least bit interested in commitment. That is the last thing they want since they already frivorced for the financial stability. She has that covered. Now she just wants to conquer men sexually. Is it a bad deal for women to be a cougar? Well I guess that depends if they are Christian or not and fear for their immortal soul.

  108. deti says:

    The sexual script flips when men and women get to be around age 40.

    An average woman age 40 and up is pretty much in the same position as an average man between ages 16 and 35. Most of the opposite sex aren’t attracted to them. They are sexually invisible to most of the opposite sex. They have the least value and the least bargaining power in the sexual marketplace.

    (BTW, the old assortative mating SMP recognized this; and handled it by getting most women married off so that they are protected from this harsh reality as they age into menopause and grandmotherhood. As for the men, the old SMP handled this by saying “Wait. Just wait until you’ve gotten some money and your working/professional feet under you. At that point the market will accommodate you as best it can. You’ll find a wife.”)

    The average 40 year old man (provided he’s taken decent care of himself and his job/career/finances) is in pretty much the same position as an average woman between ages 18 and 30. He has become increasingly attractive because he’s accumulated some power and influence; he has some money. His looks hopefully haven’t deteriorated too much. He has some social skills. This man is a catch. He will have some options if he plays his cards right. He isn’t going to be nearly as limited as he was at age 20, or even at age 30.

  109. 8oxer says:

    Dear Ceer:

    All we see is another lonely attention seeking woman who’s angry about being rejected by the men she finds acceptable. We feel sad for you.

    Speak for yourself. I don’t feel sad for her. I’m sure she fully enjoyed rejecting lots of men when she was young and marginally hot. She played that hand, and it’s gone. Had she been smart, she’d have landed a regular guy back in those old days, and worked hard to increase his quality as intelligent women do. She’d be the honorable “Mrs” now, and would be reaping the rewards, today, had she done this.

    Now she’s reduced to attempting to curry attention on the internet, while her empty life stalks her around every corner. Well, that’s how it goes.

    Regards, Boxer

  110. Dalrock, thanx for the humorous post. It’s been a tough couple of weeks for me. Your wisdom and humor are greatly appreciated.

  111. TFH says:

    deti,

    (BTW, the old assortative mating SMP recognized this; and handled it by getting most women married off so that they are protected from this harsh reality as they age into menopause and grandmotherhood. As for the men, the old SMP handled this by saying “Wait. Just wait until you’ve gotten some money and your working/professional feet under you. At that point the market will accommodate you as best it can. You’ll find a wife.”)

    YES. The old traditions (when a man and woman were married to each other at 20-22) was a custom hugely advantageous to women.

    If women had any clue at all, they would have guarded the Marriage 1.0 arrangement with their life. The reality of the unregulated SMP (as depicted in Rollo’s chart) is extremely unfavorable to a woman who waits until 32 or later to marry, while a man is very much in the game until 45, and even after that, can always date women 15 years younger (60 y/o man dating 45 y/o woman).

    Women have no idea how much they have harmed themselves, as they do not understand cause and effect very well.

  112. Mark says:

    @Dalrock

    “”[D: Good find. Thanks.]“”

    Thank you!……..anytime my friend!

  113. Opus says:

    You are all too pessimistic about women old enough to be Cougars. For a woman in her mid forties keen to demonstrate her sexual power and thus to feel desirable she can always go to Swinger’s Parties – there is always a shortage of single women – or vacation in places like Cap D’Agde (The French naked city). One step down from that is for the woman to go dogging (the canine is entirely optional) where she can service and anonymously any number of males from the front seat of her Ford Escort. This is surely true empowerment.

    If, however, the woman is looking for something more permanent my local introduction agency is boasting that it only takes two and a quarter introductions for any applicant to be suitably matched up. Letters of appreciation from happy punters testify to their haaaappiness at the agency having found them the ideal partner – what amazes me is that the agency have yet to announce a wedding as between any of their punters – perhaps the punters are not that keen after all.

    Given that the agency charge a fee of just under a thousand dollars to join and given the speed with which happiness is achieved I feel that I could go one better and start an arranged-marriage bureau where love comes – eventually – after only one introduction, the parties to the marriage being left to the decision of the irrevocable decision of the Lord Chancellor (as Johnson proposed).

  114. Ton says:

    Cohabiating isn’t a poor substitute for marriage it’s the smart alterntive to marriage because marriage is the dumbest legal contract a man can sign.

    That article totally missing the reality of modern marriage

  115. Cap D’Agde (The French naked city).

    Whatever you do don’t search the term ‘Cap D’Agde’. Is that pronounced Cap D Hag (being translated to mean “Hat of the Hag” in reference to the bags they should be wearing over their heads if not their bodies)

  116. oblivion says:

    she only got sixty days in jail. it wasnt her fault, she was “UNHAAAAAPPPYYY”

  117. oblivion says:

    @dalrock, sorry man, i shouldnt have put that video up due to the language.

  118. Just Saying says:

    If the goal of this web site is making someone appreciate their husband, at least in my case, mission accomplished. I do regret getting “ugly” and making a “Christianity” slur. Really uncalled for, I did not need to stoop so low. But I did get called a “bimbo” which is pretty close to “slut” and a “plant” — can only assume they didn’t mean houseplant — so again, to assume, meaning a “spy” — I didn’t realize your work was of such utmost importance. I’ll be expecting my award for proving the whole manosphere’s points as the truth and nothing but the truth and it took so little effort — just a couple of posts.

    I fully expected to get slammed and you did not disappoint. However, there were a couple comments that were actually enlightening.

    First of all, I realized I did not know what is meant by “game.”

    If there is something about game that can help those that are naturally very shy and introverted and have a hard time talking with others, then I home game does help them. It can be very hard for people with avoidant personality disorder to make any kind of connection and meet people, so it would be especially hard for those young men who don’t get to simply rely on the luck of genetics to be “hot.” And for these men, I think the foreign bride route is actually not a bad idea.

    So what I understood James Wolfe’s comment to mean was that “game” is basically learning to read a person and then telling them what they need to hear in order to pursue a one night stand (or to put it more poetically, a “pump and dump”) and if the “gamer” is skillful enough the “gamed” will not realize they are involved in a game. Why not take the game to the next level and really challenge yourself — now you guys are the experts on game — why not just admit up front to this lovely young women that you are not interested in a relationship but would really enjoy having sex with her and if she is open to this you guys can go find a room and then really have a sporting good time. Not in those exact words, of course. Now this would take a lot of finesse and a unique level of game play. You may actually have to go on a date or two to make this approach work for you. You will experience quite a few turndowns at first I am sure. But by challenging yourself to rise to this skill level you will eventually meet your goal. But if this is too hard and doesn’t stand a chance — go down a difficulty level and just “game” those who meet your standards and only “game” 9s and 10s. Casually let it slip in your “game” conversation that you are not looking for a relationship. If she goes ahead with your game moves, extra points for you, you have absolved yourself if she later has regrets, since went into this knowingly. Since you all are such ballers, this shouldn’t be all that difficult. Still too tough — I’d just go the “sure thing” route and hire an elite call girl. Stunning women, something for all tastes, and you can be sure they won’t end up expecting anything from you.

    I have a sneaking suspicion those that the real purpose of game though isn’t about the sex. Sure it’s great and all, but the real THRILL is executing the pump and dump.

    Also don’t quite get how this site can be in favor simultaneously for early marriage 1.0 and for game. That would eliminate your comrades in arms prized targets. It would also cut down on the vile cougars. Not only that, but they would have to be same age girls marrying same age boys. The older men would already be married. And their wives would be getting older every day.

    This is getting way to long. But I did want to leave a few anti-game “rules” for the girls.

    Girls, especially teenagers, no casual sex but if you slip, rule 2 is a MUST.
    ALWAYS assume he just wants a pump and dump. Have no expectations of anything else.
    DO NOT BE A BABY MAMA.
    Don’t be fat, just don’t. No matter your age, fight it with all you got. (Don’t give these jerks the satisfaction of being fat and old) You can’t help your age, but you can help the weight.
    Non-invasive cosmetic procedures — even the score a little.

    Don’t divorce unless the marriage is worse than what being alone would be —

    Scientists please develop the male birth control pill soon but ladies don’t trust him to use it — make sure you cover yourself.

  119. Ton says:

    Fair certain you’d have to work up to bimbo status. A woman has to be desirable to be a bimbo etc etc

  120. oblivion says:

    @just saying

    “Also don’t quite get how this site can be in favor simultaneously for early marriage 1.0 and for game. ”

    In nearly all of the happily married couples i know (30+yrs married as criteria) the husband has solid game. Its a way of keeping your wife attracted to you, and its exciting for her. Also, men who understand game usually make more money then men who dont. (women like money) as far as marriage 1.0 is best for men and women to have their children when they are young and healthy.

    “The older men would already be married. And their wives would be getting older every day.”

    Its called “wife googles” In marriage 1.0 a man when looking at his wife would always remember her tenderly when she was at her youngest and prettiest days. no matter how old she got he would always have that memory when looking at her.

  121. Just Saying says:

    @Ton

    And you’d actually have to have a brain in order to know that was what one of your comrades in arms already called me so therefor I don’t need to work up to it, I am already a bimbo — or don’t PUAs know everything — even know what I look like without seeing me.

  122. oblivion says:

    goggles

  123. Just Saying says:

    @oblivion

    Patent them — you’ll make millions. You’re going to have to do better — you’re opinion of me doesn’t matter to me. You simply cannot offend or upset me by anything you type. Give up or try way way harder.

  124. Just Saying, you need to realize that you are not talking to a monolithic group of men in the Manosphere or even here on Dalrock. Mostly they aren’t PUA’s but some do show up here. Many are married but not all. Many are Christians of many varieties or have other faiths. We debate the validity of “game” here frequently (and even the definition of the term). Sometimes we get into arguments about whether Christians husbands should “game” their wives, or whether Christian men are manly enough because they haven’t sufficiently MGTOW’d. If you want answers they won’t likely be simple ones you’ll have to sift through a ton of stuff that bothers you, just like me, and I suspect a lot of people here. Answers come by seeking them, applying yourself and not being afraid to have your paradigm challenged.

    Good luck.

  125. Just Saying says:

    @I Art Laughing

    Thank you and good luck to you also.

  126. Mark says:

    @Deti

    “”Cougars are all about validation and continued affirmation of their own worth as women.””

    This is the “perfect” definition of Cougar!

    “”WARRANTY DISCLAIMER””………………Lmao!….awesome!

  127. oblivion says:

    @just saying. i find it quite interesting that u dont attack any of my points yet think im attacking u personally. if you would stick to making a conversation instead of acting like a snowflake u would get alot more out of this site. nearly every post u wrote shows that your offended and upset, btw is your “husband” not giving u enough attention?

  128. Opus says:

    Great McComment from Just Saying: ‘I’ll have some McShaming to complete the order’ – What do you mean you, don’t serve McShaming at this time?’ [Looks around for virtual claw-hammer]

  129. 8to12 says:

    Just Saying said: “Don’t divorce unless the marriage is worse than what being alone would be”

    You were doing pretty well till you went all marriage 2.0 on us.

    1) …for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.
    2) Don’t divorce unless the marriage is worse than what being alone would be

    These two statements are not compatible. Leaving a marriage, because you would be happier alone than married is a breaking of the marriage vows.

    Your statement encapsulates why men today are wary of marriage. Society sends out the message that if the wife believes she would be happier alone, she should divorce.

    Marriage vows (vows made before God no less) mean nothing today.

  130. deti says:

    Hey guys:

    You all need to listen to Just Saying.

    Don’t learn game. Don’t learn anything about the way women’s minds work. You don’t need to know anything about female psychology or the rules of attraction. No need to learn about what makes a man attractive to a woman. No, all you need to know is what makes her happy.

    Your mission in life is not to be good at your job or craft, or to improve yourself, or to get healthy. Nope, your sole purpose on this earth is to find an entitled, overweight, bitchy complainer (Bonus points if premarital N >10 and is a single mom) and Make. Her. Happy. Bust your ass to make money to buy her that new Lexus and that 4 bedroom colonial in the suburbs. (After all, she’ll need that new house for the kids and the new boyfriend after the divorce.) Don’t do anything for yourself. You don’t deserve it. She does. She deserves all your effort, all your work, all the fruits of your blood, sweat and tears. Make sure she has everything she needs. And then she’ll love love love you, right?

    When having sex, do it slow and soft, and do it the same way every time. Girls especially love it when you make a show of lighting the candles. Ask for her permission for everything you do. Never just tell her anything. Check for and respond to her every reaction, peppering your conversation with “Are you OK?” or “Is everything all right?” She will always, always tell you everything on her mind, and she’ll do so with 100% accuracy. Women never, ever lie about anything, and if she tells you something you can take it on faith. Oh, and make sure you ask “Do you love me”? You need to take her emotional temperature every so often, because her emotional health is YOUR responsibility.

    Single guys: Your best bet is to supplicate and pedestalize. Ask her for everything. Do everything she says. Give her everything she wants. Purchase that poon, guys. And put her on that pedestal. Compliment her every chance you get on how hot she is, how lucky you are to be with her, how fortunate you are she deigns to kiss you or let you cop a feel every other week. Promise marriage with rose petals in the bed, breakfast in bed every morning, and bluebirds singing on your balcony. Pledge your undying love, and she will be yours for-EVAH.

    By all means, don’t ever expect to get anything for yourself. Don’t expect that YOU will receive anything from your relationships or your marriage. Relationships and marriage are for women, and you’re there to provide those things to some woman out there who’s entitled to them (sex when she feels like it, relationships when she wants them, and marriage when she’s damn good and ready but only after the most expensive models that she can’t afford have been test driven).

    I’ve figured out Just Saying’s rules.
    1. Men, you exist to make women happy.
    2. ALWAYS assume she wants marriage NOW.
    3. Don’t get poor. Don’t lose your job, and don’t get depressed or sick. You do that and it’s divorce court for your sad sack ass.
    4. Have no expectations that you might actually get something out of whatever woman you’re dating/married to.
    5. You need to get down on one knee and pledge marriage to any woman who demands it from you. You can’t expect to keep shoplifting the booty unless you’re gonna pay for it. Extra bonus points for marrying a single mom or a divorced mom with kids.
    6. Ask/beg for everything, pay for everything, assume responsibility for everything.

  131. oblivion says:

    @deti nice post, I laughed so hard I spit coffee on my phone

  132. Dalrock says:

    @Just Saying

    …“game” is basically learning to read a person and then telling them what they need to hear in order to pursue a one night stand (or to put it more poetically, a “pump and dump”)…

    …why not just admit up front to this lovely young women that you are not interested in a relationship but would really enjoy having sex with her and if she is open to this you guys can go find a room and then really have a sporting good time.

    The current SMP is purposely ambiguous, and this is by demand from women. Not too many decades ago women felt expectations to marry before getting too old or sexually sampling too many men. Women demanded a change and morphed the courtship/marriage SMP into the “hookup” SMP. Even the name “hookup” is ambiguous, as it could mean anything from making out to P in V sex. The only part of hookup culture which is defined is that there is to be no expectation of commitment unless it is overtly discussed. Again, young women are the ones with the SMP power, and they are the ones who insisted on this change. We have had decades of women carping about being “owned”, “trapped”, “tricked into commitment”, etc.

    So you don’t need to worry, unless your worry is that men will start playing the promiscuity game by the same rules women are. In which case, yes, you should worry. But even here, you don’t have to worry about women who want commitment (and act accordingly) becoming pumped and dumped. I’ve been in the sphere for nearly four years now (blogging for 3 of those), and I’ve never yet come across a discussion of “engagement ring game”. While anything is possible, I’ve never once heard of PUAs who offered engagement rings (not to mention marriage vows) prior to pumping and dumping. So the innocent virgins are all perfectly safe, so long as they really are innocent. The only ones at risk are the ones who want to claim they want traditional marriage as moral cover while having sex with the most alpha man who strikes their fancy.

  133. Feminist Hater says:

    It’s real easy for women, always has been. NO FREAKING SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE.

  134. deti says:

    “The only part of hookup culture which is defined is that there is to be no expectation of commitment unless it is overtly discussed. Again, young women are the ones with the SMP power, and they are the ones who insisted on this change.”

    Yes. Just Saying, also keep in mind that these same women are the ones saying they don’t want commitment, until of course they do want commitment (usually around age 30). And she expects and demands that commitment from one of the hot alpha men she had hot monkey swinging off the chandelier sex with in her 20s.

    But those men don’t want to provide commitment because they’ve figured out the game and they don’t have to. These are the men who are playing the promiscuity game by the “same rules” women have played it – “having fun, no commitment, no strings attached, it’s all good, when we’re done we’ll part ways as friends. You ladies are good with that, yes?” And why shouldn’t they, when many of the women in the SMP are offering it up for free?

  135. MarcusD says:

    Four theories about cultural suppression of female sexuality are evaluated. Data are reviewed on cross-cultural differences in power and sex ratios, reactions to the sexual revolution, direct restraining influences on adolescent and adult female sexuality, double standard patterns of sexual morality, female genital surgery, legal and religious restrictions on sex, prostitution and pornography, and sexual deception. The view that men suppress female sexuality received hardly any support and is flatly contradicted by some findings. Instead, the evidence favors the view that women have worked to stifle each other’s sexuality because sex is a limited resource that women use to negotiate with men, and scarcity gives women an advantage.

    Baumeister, Roy F., and Jean M. Twenge. “Cultural suppression of female sexuality.” Review of General Psychology 6.2 (2002): 166.

    Link: http://www.femininebeauty.info/suppression.pdf

  136. Cane Caldo says:

    @Just Saying

    I have a sneaking suspicion those that the real purpose of game though isn’t about the sex. Sure it’s great and all, but the real THRILL is executing the pump and dump.

    Theses guys do exist. Guys who have come to consider themselves to be losers do seek revenge on a culture that is overly-stimulating, but under-sexualized. That culture is driven by women who have been playing by the rules you wrote out. Those rules aren’t new. They’ve been in force for at least 50 years.

    It should also be noted here that the women who fear this do so because this is exactly what they mean to do to both Alpha’s and Beta’s, as time and circumstances permit. They know the Alpha isn’t a good long-term prospect. They know they will get tired of the Beta. The pattern is to alternate as their desires demand.

    This is getting way to long. But I did want to leave a few anti-game “rules” for the girls.

    Girls, especially teenagers, no casual sex but if you slip, rule 2 is a MUST.
    ALWAYS assume he just wants a pump and dump. Have no expectations of anything else.
    DO NOT BE A BABY MAMA.
    Don’t be fat, just don’t. No matter your age, fight it with all you got. (Don’t give these jerks the satisfaction of being fat and old) You can’t help your age, but you can help the weight.
    Non-invasive cosmetic procedures — even the score a little.

    Don’t divorce unless the marriage is worse than what being alone would be —

    Scientists please develop the male birth control pill soon but ladies don’t trust him to use it — make sure you cover yourself.

    Rule number one has a caveat because no one actually expects and obliges girls to follow rule one. It’s the very cover to which Dalrock so often refers.

    Rule number two is actually rule number one. The trick is that it implies that women actually want commitment over pump-and-dump. The truth is that women want–whatever they want–RIGHT NOW. They’ll work out the details later, and have no shame to blame everyone but themselves until they absolutely have to…or until it makes them look sympathetic. Note that in the second instance they still aren’t taking responsibility, but simply milking the blame for empathy. (Cue: Empathological)

    Rule number three, in CAPS, is exactly what we should expect. Raising children is a consequence of sex (see: overly-stimulate, but under-sexualized statement) , and consequences must be avoided AT ALL COSTS.

    Rule Five is hilarious. “Don’t get fat, so you can hate men”. Yeah…hurt me. Beyond the humor though, it’s a great example of how even decent women will do anything to get the attention of men, and have zero qualms hurting those they should love (again: over-stimulated, but under-sexualized), and will put themselves through great pain for no other reason than to be spiteful (see: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dido_%28Queen_of_Carthage%29"Dido)

    Rule six reveals both the adversarial nature of modern women, and that they actually play the Beta role, and will then suddenly switch to Alpha when it is convenient.

    Rule seven is interesting. Seven is the perfect number in Christian mythology. She assigned it to divorce. We’ll just meditate on that.

    Finally, there is a wish that there were MORE barriers between sex and children; giving evidence to my claim that the consequence of raising children–and watching them rebel and make bad choices, and even die–is THE thing modern women fear most. Cat ladies are given a lot of grief in the Men’s Sphere, but they’d rather be cat ladies than actually raise their own children.

    Game is exactly what you’ve asked for, Just Saying.

    @Dalrock

    The current SMP is purposely ambiguous, and this is by demand from women. Not too many decades ago women felt expectations to marry before getting too old or sexually sampling too many men. Women demanded a change and morphed the courtship/marriage SMP into the “hookup” SMP. Even the name “hookup” is ambiguous, as it could mean anything from making out to P in V sex. The only part of hookup culture which is defined is that there is to be no expectation of commitment unless it is overtly discussed. Again, young women are the ones with the SMP power, and they are the ones who insisted on this change. We have had decades of women carping about being “owned”, “trapped”, “tricked into commitment”, etc.

    Superb.

    [Y]ou don’t have to worry about women who want commitment (and act accordingly) becoming pumped and dumped. I’ve been in the sphere for nearly four years now (blogging for 3 of those), and I’ve never yet come across a discussion of “engagement ring game”.

    This is actually a very common form of Beta Game. It does get discussed, but only in the negative sense…and for good reason. It tempts both to treat each other as pump-and-dumps.

  137. FH, about the Polish girl, that is ALL just for conquest. She is a conquerer. That is what gives her, her self-esteem. (The more penises I get into my vagina, the more worth I have.) That’s it. It’s pretty simple.

  138. Opus says:

    Again: I am not convinced that Game actually exists. You cannot subvert nature, at least not for long. On a physical level one cannot make oneself taller than one is or alter ones basic body type nor have more hair than your genes decree, or be blonde if one is brunette or funny if one is naturally morose; neither can one become more intelligent than one is, or more naturally cunning, peaceable or aggressive or kindly. That is not to say that one cannot or will not learn from experience, nor that one should always assume that the female of the species are always as yummy as they look or that their protestations of love should be taken as more than a passing whim – although one is occasionally pleasantly surprised. Books of Game are surely as highly priced as other self-help books just as popular and just as pointless – no more than a half-hour feel-good thrill, a little like virtuously buying a Gym membership.

    Game thus seems to me to be the name that men of a certain cast grant towards their experience of how to deal with the opposite sex, to overcome their resistance to ones desires. What that game amounts to will vary from person to person, and may well achieve ones desires.

    The brilliance of Game technicians is to convince women like Just Asking that it actually exists!

  139. Dalrock says:

    @IBB

    FH, about the Polish girl, that is ALL just for conquest. She is a conquerer. That is what gives her, her self-esteem. (The more penises I get into my vagina, the more worth I have.) That’s it. It’s pretty simple.

    Women don’t conquer sexually. They receive status and validation by being sexually desired.

  140. Women don’t conquer sexually.

    Gotta disagree.

    MOST (most = almost all) women DON’T conquer sexually. Some do. I’d argue that this Polish girl is in the “some” category.

  141. Opus says:

    Anna Lisewska: sounds like a promotion drive for a product no one wants where all the products that have been produced are being used in the promotion (someone need to sack the marketing department) – or maybe it is designed merely to put the competition out of business. Still, that is what I like about a free market as I do not approve of cartels or monopolies where the price is fixed between the various manufacturers. Surely women will have no trouble giving Anna their full-hearted support in the drive for female equality with men who similarly set out to sleep with that same number of women before turning thirty. Anna will surely become a Polish national heroine as she demonstrates that women can become strong and empowered by taking on and beating men at their own game. I trust the movement that Anna starts will soon expand to my country where all courageous young women (in between attending slut-walks – now renamed un-slut walks) will attempt to equal if not beat Anna’s record. You go grrrl.

  142. Feminist Hater says:

    I just love this part.

    But the details of her apparently ambitious aim have cast doubt on its legitimacy, with several reports suggesting that it might be a hoax.

    According to reports, having sex with that many people for 20 minutes at a time would take Miss Lisewska 3.8 years to complete if she didn’t stop for food or sleep.

    Seeing as she only plans to partake on Saturdays and Sundays, the task would take 20 years non-stop.

    Assuming she lives to the age of 81, to hit 100,000 Miss Lisewska would have to up her quota to around 16 men on both days of the weekend.

    No one says Maths was a woman’s strong point, did they? Especially not for whores.

  143. Cane Caldo says:

    I wrote above:

    Theses guys do exist. Guys who have come to consider themselves to be losers do seek revenge on a culture that is overly-stimulating, but under-sexualized.

    and I want to clarify that I did not mean that all Players are just seeking revenge. Those that would be considered “Natural Alphas” are usually twisted in some way. A lot of them were actually looking for “true love”, and fell into really bad habits because the pursuit and bedding seemed to fill a need…they just never moved past it. It’s a logical reaction to women lining up to spread their legs before you (swearing they want to rescue you, and give you what they’re sure you’ve been looking for), but still a very poor life choice because the fact is women don’t have what men are looking for because women aren’t givers. Men are. What a woman has to give a grown man is service, and that is only as good as the service continues. Women hate this arrangement because they themselves don’t really value service.

    Hence Dalrock’s statement: “Women don’t conquer sexually. They receive status and validation by being sexually desired.”

  144. feeriker says:

    deti said: Ask her for everything. Do everything she says. Give her everything she wants. Purchase that poon, guys. And put her on that pedestal. Compliment her every chance you get on how hot she is, how lucky you are to be with her, how fortunate you are she deigns to kiss you or let you cop a feel every other week.

    Deti probably meant to include this in the instructions above, but let me add this, guys, because not doing this to your wife is like denying water to a thirsty desert plant:

    Tell her that you love her. Constantly. Bare minimum should be eight times per day (Muslims are required by the Qur’an to pray to Allah only five times per day, so you have some idea of just how onerous a requirement this is). YOU CANNOT tell a woman often enough that you love her. If you don’t do so EVERY SINGLE DAY, then YOU DO NOT LOVE HER!

    Never forget to do this! Insecurity is as fundamental to a woman as is estrogen.

    Sorry for the annoying bold letters, but this cannot be emphasized heavily enough, unless you want your misery extended and amplified.

  145. feeriker says:

    Dalrock said: While anything is possible, I’ve never once heard of PUAs who offered engagement rings (not to mention marriage vows) prior to pumping and dumping. So the innocent virgins are all perfectly safe, so long as they really are innocent. The only ones at risk are the ones who want to claim they want traditional marriage as moral cover while having sex with the most alpha man who strikes their fancy.

    That the first part of your statement needs to be explained to women like Just Saying has horrifying implications (let’s just say that it serves as proof that the Mike Judge movie Idiocracy is a documentary, not a comedy).

    As to the second part, that women wanting a committed relationship are risk of “pump and dump,” it doesn’t take very much mental candle power (and thank God, given the short supply this is in across the feministasphere) to realize that this is nonsense. Leaving aside the fact that today’s SMP heaps oceans of ridicule upon “traditional” women who overtly seek such a thing, why would ANY PUA worth the title waste time with such women when “hookup hos,” who are in far greater abundance, are far less effort to land, and are made for the purpose are readily at hand? Not to mention the fact that those few women who are seriously looking for commitment in the traditional sense of that concept are usually, to their credit, smart enough not to fall victim to the typical PUA pump-and-dump game, mostly because they don’t “do business” within the current culture’s SMP.

  146. greyghost says:

    feeriker
    A player is doing the lords work. He is using up a sluts fertility. Only a slut can be pumped and dumped. You really think about it only a vain whore would seek validation from a player. A bigger deal to have a player want to fuck you than a regular nice guy shopping for a wife.
    BTW telling her you love her makes no difference

  147. feeriker says:

    Greyghost said: BTW telling her you love her makes no difference.

    That’s true, because if you start telling her that you love her eight times a day like she insists that you do, it will only confirm in her mind that you don’t really love her, because if you had to be TOLD to tell her that.

    Fried ice, anyone?

  148. Don’t divorce unless the marriage is worse than what being alone would be —

    This works well for humans who understand cause and effect, and are able to consider multiple scenarios and consequences before they act.
    Women cannot and do not, that’s why they file divorces so much.

  149. Alexander says:

    My favorite thing here is the demand for a male pill and the caution that he might not use it. Just Sayin, the day the male pill becomes a feasible drug feminists will react with fear and alarm unseen since Hungarian peasants heard the hoof-beats of the Mongol horde. It will be shamed, mocked, regulated, and finally banned. Because it will give men the ability to have as much sex as they like without any risk of forced future investment in said woman and her child without any say from her. I fully expect some feminist to shriek about how the male pill has taken away a women’s right to choose between birth and abortion. And for the white knights to support such madness.

    Which brings us nicely to point number two. Barring a few fetishists and uber beta males no man is going to try and trick a girl into getting pregnant. It’ll be the other way round – men swearing up and down they aren’t using the socially unacceptable and legally forbidden male pill while having in fact done exactly that.

  150. Alexander says:

    Just Sayin,

    Quick question: Let’s say a man has had a vasectomy. When, if ever, should he be obligated to share that information?

  151. Just Saying says:

    Dalrock — is there any way to delete all my comments from this blog. I obviously have nothing of interest or value to add and this has just turned into a giant waste of time for myself and everyone else that is commenting on what I posted. I wll not post again.

  152. Anonymous age 71 says:

    I am not JS, but will say at a glance you need only disclose a vasectomy before long-term cohabitation where children might be a reasonable expectation or marriage. IMO. ONS, never.

  153. tspoon says:

    While on the subject of controversy in advertising –

  154. Just Saying, don’t say you weren’t warned.

  155. Just Saying says:

    @Alexander

    I don’t think he would be obligated to tell someone that he had had a vasectomy unless they were serious and talking marriage. But he could tell earlier, if he chose to do so. The only exception I can really think might be if she had already discussed her desire for children but even then unless they both were discussing marriage I don’t think he would be obligated, maybe earlier, just because it would be a waste of both of their time, if she wanted kids and he didn’t. The same reversed if the girl didn’t want children and the man did, wouldn’t he want to know that pretty soon into a relationship but absolutely “obligated” if they were talking marriage.

  156. feeriker says:

    is there any way to delete all my comments from this blog. I obviously have nothing of interest or value to add and this has just turned into a giant waste of time for myself and everyone else that is commenting on what I posted. I wll not post again.

    Hamsterlation: “I brought a plastic butter knife to a gun fight and have made a complete and utter moronette of myself. Even though what’s posted on the Internet can’t be “unposted,” I want to erase all traces of my verbal blunders and save what little face I can.”

  157. deti says:

    Feeriker:

    Outstanding! Here’s your gold plated Hamsterlator for your trophy case at home.

  158. Just Saying says:

    *I Art Laughing

    Can’t say I wasn’t warned, too true and unfortunately, too late, and I should have known better.

  159. greyghost says:

    I have to go back and see what just sayin posted. But you meanies ran off the girl and You Dalrock you just stood there and did nothing. Well she is much more aware now than ever and she actually has something to offer a young preteen girl now.

  160. 8oxer says:

    Some wimminz yammers:

    Dalrock — is there any way to delete all my comments from this blog. I obviously have nothing of interest or value to add and this has just turned into a giant waste of time for myself and everyone else that is commenting on what I posted. I wll not post again.

    In the ancient old usenet days, we used to call this self-immolation. The problem is that no one who is serious about leaving an online haunt will announce it. Think about it: when you, dear reader, have wandered away from a place, have you ever made a huge production about it? Of course not. I’ve posted on dozens of message boards and blog comment sections. Eventually, my eyes glaze over for the last time, and I wander off to look at pr0n. I don’t set out to “leave forever”, I just leave and never seem to get back.

    Those who announce their departure, well, they almost never depart. They often reappear under another username — another ridiculous tactic — and (surprise, surprise) they behave just as badly as before.

    If some wimminz is going to leave, then she should just leave. No one cares if you’re going. No one will miss you. Few of us know who the others are, and those who do have other means of connecting other than this blog. Go, then, and be well.

    Regards, Boxer

  161. 8oxer says:

    Quick question: Let’s say a man has had a vasectomy. When, if ever, should he be obligated to share that information?

    Ethically, I’d say he has an obligation to disclose before marriage. Whether she admits it or not, the average woman does want to have at least one kid, at some point in her life. By the same token, women have an ethical obligation to disclose any barriers to children to a prospective husband during the engagement too. Many dudes want to have a kid; and many more will want to have one at some point, even if they swear up and down they don’t want to ever have children. People change.

    As Anon 71 says, there is no obligation to disclose such stuff during the dating process or in the event of a short term fling. Sex as recreation is valid, but is not the same thing as sex as procreation.

  162. jlw says:

    “jlw, don’t you have 200 dollars?”

    Of course. I’ve been relatively successful in my career. Without being judgmental of those who choose to go the pay route, I personally just find fapping to be quicker, cleaner, cheaper, and safer than hiring a prostitute.

    Different strokes (heh) for different folks.

  163. Regarding vasectomy, what ever happened to having control over our own bodies? To having control over our own sexual reproduction? Should women be required to get a consent form from their husbands before they are allowed to have an abortion? Should she be required to get consent before having a prescription for birth control? Only seems fair.

  164. Anonymous age 71 says:

    You are exactly correct, IAL. But, women have more votes than men do, so any change of any consequence is just a pipe dream.

  165. whatever says:


    Again: I am not convinced that Game actually exists. You cannot subvert nature, at least not for long. On a physical level one cannot make oneself taller than one is or alter ones basic body type nor have more hair than your genes decree, or be blonde if one is brunette or funny if one is naturally morose; neither can one become more intelligent than one is, or more naturally cunning, peaceable or aggressive or kindly. That is not to say that one cannot or will not learn from experience, nor that one should always assume that the female of the species are always as yummy as they look or that their protestations of love should be taken as more than a passing whim – although one is occasionally pleasantly surprised. Books of Game are surely as highly priced as other self-help books just as popular and just as pointless – no more than a half-hour feel-good thrill, a little like virtuously buying a Gym membership.

    That’s because you are a fool.

  166. Jen says:

    One point on vasectomies/possible male pill – sleazy guys will claim to have had one to secure unprotected sex with females. (Yes – not all men are giving angels from heaven!) Another reason ONS are much riskier for females than males. I am not sure about men, but meaningless sex/unwanted sex has a deleterious effect on female self-image. It is just a bad, bad idea despite the fact that our culture constantly promotes it. Just take care of your body, work hard, get a hobby (knitting, news junkie, shooting at a local range, cat rescue :), etc.). The right person might come along, and, if not, oh well, life kinda sucks. Our culture tends to convince everyone that they deserve the hottest alpha girl or most successful alpha guy….not very realistic.

  167. Anonymous age 71 says:

    Several years ago, there was a posting on a Don’t Get Married board by a man who claims he had a vasectomy and kept it a secret.. But, when asked at any time, he made it clear he did not want children.

    And, he always used a condom in his LTR to back up his claim that he wanted no kids..

    Eventually, she announced there must have been an accident, and he was the father. He went to her place to discuss the issue. When he got there, he handed her his documents showing his sperm count at zero, and she sort of went ape-shit.

    In the end, it turned out to be one of those thugs. Rock band or motorcycle thug type.

    It was actually a very entertaining tale, and a lot of men called him a liar. I believed it, because that is what a truly clever man would do.

    I had mine in 1976, and it doesn’t matter any more because I am faithful to my 71 year old wife. If I became a widow I would not tell anyone, just as he didn’t. Except I would not use the condom. I might even tell a woman I love kids, and would not mind having a baby with her, which would be absolutely true. And, I would definitely tell her it is unlikely at my age that I could make a baby, and that if she wanted a baby, she needs another man for the job. The fact that I could not would be her problem not mine. But, I also would make it clear I did not plan to marry.

    Also, I would only have a pregnant abandoned woman, or a widow who already had kids. Someone the locals would most probably not want but would suit me fine..

    And, yes, in Mexico, a 71 year old man can have a fertile lover. Maybe only 5% of young women will go for an older man, but it does not take a lot of them to keep me happy. Heh, heh.

    The local rich guy had a baby with a 20 year old woman when he was 78. Just to put it into perspective.

  168. Well given the way vasectomies are dealt with we wouldn’t have to use our imagination about what would happen with a male-pill would we?

  169. Anonymous age 71 says:

    You mean it would be stalled for many years, with the pretense it had not been adequately tested for safety?

    Oh, wait a minute.

  170. Anonymous age 71 says:

    Let me write some thoughts for the women posting here. Last year a commenter on a blog, it may have been here, explained why women came to boards and blogs that are very clearly aimed at men.

    He said they see such blogs and are so shocked and surprised to find out what men are really thinking of women, they first thing they think is they should all be sent to mental asylums. Then, they think, I will go there, announce I am a woman and I don’t like what they are saying, and they will naturally apologize and change their sinful ways.

    And, when that does not happen, they are really convinced those men really are totally insane. All men are supposed to obey women.

    So, why are women so shocked to find out what men are thinking of them these days?

    I am not young. I followed the feminist movement from the mid-60’s. From the very first, feminists were given passes by the MSM. And, men were not given any outlet for their beliefs. In the first years, people like Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinman were the only ones allowed to speak for women. Who was allowed to speak for men? Dr. Joyce Brothers. A woman. Even today, Dr. Helen Smith can get our views on MSM and we cannot.

    Men were not allowed to speak at all. Those who did, the dearies first called them every name in the book. If that didn’t shut them up, they went after their jobs. If they were elected officials, they got them voted out of office. If that didn’t work, they went after some sort of false sex abuse charge.

    Nothing changed until the Internet came in, and even then it took a while. Now men are communicating and feminists cannot stop them (though they are lobbying to have our views declared hate crimes). Suddenly, millions of men realize their feelings about the disgusting things done to them by women’s votes are normal.

    On the other hand, though, women are still for the most part convinced (because they haven’t heard men express their true feelings) that sane men are content with the current laws and society. And, even today, men in power realize they dare not do or say anything that is not approved by women. Look at what happended to Larry Summers for telling the truth about women and math.

    The Internet gives men the anonymity to speak their feelings, and still have a job. So, you are getting the truth here. You are wasting your time telling us what you think. We men have heard what women think for nearly 50 years, and hearing it again only antagonizes us. The only lack is for women to hear what men are thinking. You can get it on blogs like this.

    Dalrock has the best man’s blog on the web. So, what he does is not mine to criticize. I will tell you in the early 80’s, a local Father’s Rights group was having some real gross suicides. I was drafted, and we got rid of the Second Wives, who made it impossible to counsel men in stress. Suicides dropped to zero.

    We also noticed that every Second wife who accompanied her husband to a meeting eventually divorced him. 100% of them.

    For the most part women come where men meet to try to control things. Period. They claim to be so empahtic to men, but they really shriek until they shut down the group, or are banned.

    Boards that I moderate for the most part do not let women register, which is why the top man boards get their service overseas.

    I have my own very small, very low traffic board, and a year or two ago, a woman applied to register. I knew immediately she was a trouble-maker who wanted proboards to shut me down, if I did not let her register. So, I was essentially forced to her her register. Two years later, she has not even logged on yet. This is typical, and only adds to anger by men against women.

  171. Opus says:

    I am indebted to ‘whatever’ for repeating verbatim my doubts as to the reality of Game.

  172. alcestiseshtemoa says:

    Around the Internet, some have been talking about VMA former Disney child star Miley Cyrus/Canadian male singer Robin Thicke Performance. I have found a video about it here.

  173. Hopeful says:

    Even though Just Saying did say some things she regrets, a positive thing is she was willing to admit her mistake. Many women don’t do that. Isn’t that a good thing? A step in the right direction?

  174. Legion says:

    Just Saying says: September 4, 2013 at 4:24 pm
    “I wll not post again.”
    Just Saying says: September 4, 2013 at 5:12 pm
    Just Saying says: September 4, 2013 at 5:58 pm

    JS lied. People died (laughing).

  175. Jen says:

    @anonymous – I can only speak for myself, but I am “shocked and surprised” that some men are unhappy with the SMP, as it currently stands. It seems that this is the main theme of the Manosphere blogs that I have seen. I had previously thought that men were generally the instigators and benefactors of the Sexual Revolution and the aftermath. Anyway, IMO, it is all a part of the general civilizational decline that we are witnessing – fascinating stuff to try to analyze and discuss. I do not agree that women have unilaterally caused this decline, though. If my opinions get too disruptive, I am sure Dalrock will ban me or just delete my opinions – not to mention the fact that the men on this blog are quite opinionated toward female interlopers….

  176. Hug Schmug says:

    @ Just Saying is not me. I don’t think she deserves the “hamster translations”. She makes valid observations.

    @ Deti
    “That’s the cruel thing about this entire phenom. It’s awful for women. The fact of the matter is that most women ARE NOT as attractive 20 years past their primes, and they cannot attract high status men.” I’m sorry, that is not my experience. Men have magic mirror syndrome. Unless he has real money, he is in a worse position than a woman. Balding, paunch, yellow teeth….slovenly dresser. Ugh. No. But keep saying it so you know it’s true.

    @ Mark
    No, my daughter and her friends grew up wealthy and can pull a career, if they want, not a low tier job. They aren’t going to get hired as a receptionist who uses sex as a back-door into a relationship. They had better options.

    I got zero alimony. I have my own business. Child support did not even cover private school. No bitterness here. He was a serial cheater and emotionally abusive. He certainly didn’t fight to see his children; (I wish he would have) he was too busy chasing women. He’s still lonely. I moved on. That’s what divorce is good for.

    Maximizing game as a woman means always looking good, reading the newspaper and being interesting instead of being a vapid consumer. Daughter and her friends are all married or engaged, to age appropriate awesome men. Happy joy. Raising good children is a tough job. I don’t hate on women who choose to stay home and do that. I hate on women who raise brats with no manners. Lazy, entitled brats with no manners is worse.

    I understand the frustration men feel about women. I also understand the frustration women feel about men. To me, men on this board group all women into their own anecdotal stories and apply their rules to all women. I too have a hard time finding good girlfriends to hang with…the kind who aren’t broke with staggering credit card debt, (gotta have the latest Gucci!), or looking for a man to take care of them. Women whose alimony is running out…so she’s gotta hook another man. I see drunk cougars, or even drunk middle aged women acting like fools. At the end of the day, they have no “game”. Or is that “class”?

    I’ve been all over the world. Russian women don’t age well. At all. Get one, the first thing is she needs to see a dentist. Over 50, she has the shape of a potato. Asians? Really? Good luck with those in middle age. South American women have the same problem as the Russians. Yes, I know men who were thrilled to land one of these immigrants. These women will fake all kinds of “stuff” until she gets the ring. Then she wants her family near. (They will need to be supported, too.) She wants, she wants…because she married a “rich” American. Or she sees the first guy as her green card. She is looking to trade up as soon as she gets a credit card and sexy clothing.
    At the end of the day, stupid men bought what stupid woman was selling. Shoulder some blame.

    But…to marginalize all divorced women over 45 as “used up” “bitter” and worst of all, “going to grow old lonely”…sorry, I’m not buying it. I guess it’s ok if she is a widow, her husband died of cancer or in a war? Yes, a broke but pretty woman has lots more options than a broke average man. Is it fair? It’s a law of the universe, I didn’t write it. If you are looking to “get laid” with your game, sure, it will up your chances. But not so much with a “quality” woman. She has innate game of her own. Good men, and women, are rare. That knife cuts both ways. Men lie up about their frequency of sex, women “down” so I have zero faith in any “study” cited.

    Do I crave sex with a young man who is secretly eyeing my bank account? Ahhh, hell no! Why do men not see this a mile away when it happens to them? Men here make fun of the “cougars”, yet can’t see that there really is no difference when the role is reversed. I can! I do!
    And really, I have zero interest in a player, especially the old ones. It’s gross. I’m sure they use the blue pill. I’m sure they think they are studs. They aren’t. They have no self-examination skills. Deluded? Oh, yes. Do young girls who are poor hit on these guys? Of course. Young hot girls who can pull a man her own age? NO. (I know there are exceptions. I am speaking generally.)

    Anecdote: I was with daughter and hot friends in South Beach. Joe Francis and his over-tanned bodyguard (I didn’t know who he was, daughter pointed him out) was stalking us. Would run ahead on the boardwalk and then walk back towards us. Showed up at our lunch spot, kept walking by the table, trying to get our attention. All we thought was…”what a tool”.

    It seems (to me) the men here are all gleeful that someday the woman who turned him down is “going to get hers when she is an old hag”. Because only women become bitter and lonely, right? Loneliness knows no specific gender or age.

    This, from Jack Nicholson:
    ‘I’m definitely still wild at heart. But I’ve struck bio-gravity. I can’t hit on women in public any more. I didn’t decide this; it just doesn’t feel right at my age.’
    He pauses to get straight to the heart of his own theory of life.
    ‘If men are honest, everything they do and everywhere they go is for a chance to see women. There were points in my life where I felt oddly irresistible to women. I’m not in that state now and that makes me sad.
    ‘But I also believe that a lot of the improvements in my character have come through ageing and the diminishing of powers. It’s all a balancing act; you just have to get used to the ride.’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1350653/Jack-Nicholson-I-used-feel-irresistible-women-Not-more.html#ixzz2dzBboeHk

  177. Anonymous age 71 says:

    Jen, Well, yes, I just explained that in great detail. Few women have anything to say we haven’t heard ad infinitupm ad nauseum.

    So, what happens to men who post on feminist boards and blogs?

    Men did not and could not ever instigate the current SMP. That would be rape, period. Women are the gatekeepers of sex, by law in every nation and every period of time.

  178. Anonymous age 71 says:

    Hug just said, NAWALT. What a surprise! Nobody ever told us such a thing before.

  179. Feminist Hater says:

    Hugh Schmoe aka Dipshit

    Listen, there’s one solution to this problem. Women must not get married. Ever.

  180. Anonymous age 71 says:

    Hug, what you write is true only in the USA, at this time. I live in Mexico, and have been faithful to my Mexican wife of 38 years. Not because she deserves it, because few wives do, but because it makes my life better. And, I highly recommend it to other men.

    Around 5% of young women here actually want an older man. A married cousin told me several years ago when he was 55 or so, that an 18 year old woman asked to have his baby. She knew he was married, so obviously she was volunteering to be his mistress. He asked her why she would want him, when she could have a man her own age.

    She said older men treat you better; they are more responsible, then she added something that took me a while to figure out. What it meant was that older men are much more affectionate. This young woman actually preferred an older man, and the cousin was not especially affluent.

    She did marry a man her age, and it has not gone well for her.

    I get hit on here at times, average age around 23. I have heard all the shaming language so don’t bother to give me more.

    There are two types of hypergamy. One is the gold -digger. The other is the woman who finds a man with assets more attractive than he is. Women think Donald Trump is attractive and he isn’t. These are the women who hit on me, after the first wave of gold-diggers subsided.

    As an American woman, I am sure it is incomprehensible to you that a young woman would actually find a man my age attractive except for money. But, that is your problem and has nothing to do with reality.

    I must confess, though, that when this first happened I also assumed they were gold-diggers. My best friend’s wife, who is like a sister to me, explained reality to me. I found it very shocking that at my age young women would actually find me attractive for any reason but money. So, I cannot be too surprised that AW would assume the same.

    It has taken me a long time to understand why Americans think it is so perverted for old men to be with young women. In the US, men are hated, but especially old men are hated. Even old men hate old men. In Mexico old men are respected if they deserve to be respected. So, young women who prefer older men are not mocked and ridiculed as they are in the US.

    The 78 year old rich guy had a baby by a 20 year old, last year, and there were no jokes. Everyone understands both of them get what they want, so all is well.

  181. slwerner says:

    Jen – ”One point on vasectomies/possible male pill – sleazy guys will claim to have had one to secure unprotected sex with females. (Yes – not all men are giving angels from heaven!) Another reason ONS are much riskier for females than males.”

    While I cannot with any certainty state that what you suggest would never happen, the reality is that the risk of getting a woman pregnant WILL prevent most men from doing it.

    In an age of DNA paternity testing, and extremely aggressive (anti-)Family Courts and Child Support Enforcement agencies, only an idiot would risk getting a woman pregnant these days.

    The only caveat I can imagine would be one in which the man was a complete stranger to the woman, used a false name with her, and (preferably) did not live anywhere near so as not to be spotted by her and turned in to the courts for the purpose of securing child support from him. And, even in such a situation, it would still be a substantial risk for him.

    But, really, what sort of dumb-ass slut would grant unprotected sex to a complete stranger who she cannot be certain is telling the truth about a vasectomy or not having STD’s?

  182. slwerner says:

    @jen:

    Should have added that even when using a condom, there have been too many cases of women retrieving the used condom to try to secure a man’s sperm so as it impregnate herself for any man to not be careful to make sure that a woman cannot gain such access to even his used condom.

    It was once true that an ONS was a bigger risk for a woman. But, times have changed (and not necessarily for the better), and it is now men* who will be assuming the greater risk in an ONS.

    *unless they are some homeless, jobless loser who cannot be held liable for child support, or they actually have STD’s that they don’t care if they spread.

  183. greyghost says:

    from Jen
    “I can only speak for myself, but I am “shocked and surprised” that some men are unhappy with the SMP, as it currently stands. It seems that this is the main theme of the Manosphere blogs that I have seen. I had previously thought that men were generally the instigators and benefactors of the Sexual Revolution and the aftermath.”
    Very interesting comment from a woman. This is the apex fallacy thing when she sees men she sees men she is sexually attracted to. Not a criticism of her just reality. The manosphere was started and maintain by family men that married and were punished by the society that taught them to be responsible and marry. Even the PUA bloggers are family men that know the truth. This is something women in general have no capacity to understand.
    It is not about pussy. The majority here are or where married (we can get the pussy) it and is about crimminalizing men based on hypergamy and gina tingle.

  184. greyghost says:

    But, really, what sort of dumb-ass slut would grant unprotected sex to a complete stranger who she cannot be certain is telling the truth about a vasectomy or not having STD’s?
    Is that a trick question? Any woman in gina tingle is that kind of dumb-ass slut. And for poor women it is how they earn a living. As anon 71 described women get paid by the state to be single mothers.

  185. 8to12 says:

    @Jen said: “I can only speak for myself, but I am “shocked and surprised” that some men are unhappy with the SMP, as it currently stands.”

    This is because you have stereotyped men.

    The guy that only lives to see how often he can get laid (with as many different woman as possible) doesn’t represent most men. In fact, he represents a distinct minority of men (I’d guess no more than 20%), but I’d guess that is what you think the typical man is like.

    We are decades past the sexual revolution (which made sex freely available to men without marriage), yet the majority of men still get married and settle down with a single woman. If they aren’t marrying for sex, then why are they marrying? Because, most men still believe in marriage and everything that traditionally went with it. Despite the stereotype you have of men, the truth is most men want to eventually marry and have a family.

    The current SMP has destroyed marriage. That’s why so many men are unhappy about it.

  186. slwerner says:

    greyghost – ”Is that a trick question? Any woman in gina tingle is that kind of dumb-ass slut.”

    I think you know quite well that it was a back-hand slap at such woman that Jen is so concerned about. The real question would be: should we (or anybody) really care what fully expectable results might befall a woman who fails to control herself like an adult.

    ”And for poor women it is how they earn a living. As anon 71 described women get paid by the state to be single mothers.”

    Point taken. But, since they make out with taxpayer funding for their progeny, does that not obviate the supposed “risk” Jen imagines for such women engaging in ONS’s? In fact, it would seem that a pregnancy is not a risk, but rather a “jackpot” for such women…sort of like those women who try to use sperm from a condom to get pregnant.

    Jen’s reasoning is stuck in some by-gone era. She probably also believes that most divorces are the result of men abandoning their wives and children to live like high-rolling playboy’s with their new younger girlfriends.

  187. greyghost says:

    I guess we can see what little girls and women are learning in media and school.

  188. Anonymous Reader says:

    Over the years, Anonymous Aged N (68 – 71) has mentioned the fact that in the part of the world where he now resides, an older man involved with a younger woman is not considered a scandal. It is not common, but it is not a scandal. It is, in fact, accepted as normative.

    Careful readers will note that he’s never once mentioned the reverse – it would seem that either there are no older-woman-younger-man pairings in his environment in Mexico, or they are so rare (or so discreet) as to be nonexistent.

    Or… they are figures of risible amusement, along the lines of Offenbach’s operetta “The Grand Duchess of Gerostein.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Grande-Duchesse_de_G%C3%A9rolstein

    Note which character the Grande Cougar Duchess winds up with.

  189. feeriker says:

    Anon age 71 to Jen: Men did not and could not ever instigate the current SMP. That would be rape, period. Women are the gatekeepers of sex, by law in every nation and every period of time.

    EXACTLY (I would probably have also added “and by social custom” following “by law” to the last sentence of the quote above).

    While Jen is of course correct in saying that women are not entirely responsible for the current civilizational decline in the western world, it is an incontestable and common[?] sense-based fact that women, and women alone, are sovereign over the SMP, that they and they alone control “supply and demand.” The stability of the nuclear family, an essential pillar of the stability of any civilization, is dependent on the integrity of sexual relations between man and woman, which is itself dependent on women maintaining the duties as gatekeepers of sex. That western women have largely abandoned this responsibility over the last half century is a major factor, if not the overriding factor, in the destruction of the family and thus the destabilization of western civilization.

    So, again, while Jen is correct in stating that women are not ENTIRELY responsible for our current decline (and I would offer that no one but a fool would make such a reckless claim in earnest), it cannot be seriously denied that their abandonment of their traditional obligation as gatekeepers of sex (and by extension the SMP) lays at their feet a major portion of the blame for our predicament.

  190. feeriker says:

    Hug Schmug said: Just Saying is not me. I don’t think she deserves the “hamster translations”. She makes valid observations.

    Hamsterlation (hey, Schmug, you asked for it!): “How dare any man render into plain speech the rationalizations of the female imperative! It hurts our feeeeeeeelings!”

  191. Anonymous Reader says:

    PS: While the original Offenbach work stages the Grande Duchess as 20 years old, virtually all productions in the last 150 years or so have employed a woman over 40, a cougar, in that role.

  192. feeriker says:

    slwerner said: The only caveat I can imagine would be one in which the man was a complete stranger to the woman, used a false name with her, and (preferably) did not live anywhere near so as not to be spotted by her and turned in to the courts for the purpose of securing child support from him. And, even in such a situation, it would still be a substantial risk for him.

    Yes, it most certainly would, and a man pulling off what you describe in your hypothetical would still be at a big risk of “getting caught.” Has he ever served in the military? The feds have a copy of his DNA on file (the military has been harvesting service members’ DNA for nearly two decades now, the rationale being “if you become a casualty of war and your remains cannot otherwise be identified, we’ll have your DNA to work with.” Of course this is just one convenient entry point to the slippery slope of grabbing everybody’s DNA).

    If he’s ever been arrested, a sample of his DNA has been taken. If he’s ever contributed a blood or stool sample for a medical exam, you can be pretty damned sure his DNA is on file somewhere.

    “But they can’t use his DNA for any purpose other than that for which it’s been collected!” [Insert earnest and incredulous expression here.]

    To anyone who believes that statement, I have prime beachfront property in Cheyenne, Wyoming that you just won’t be able to pass up!

    Guys, don’t even think of trying to pulling off the hypothetical scam slwerner describes, given that the metastasizing Polizeistaat guarantees that your DNA will eventually catch up with you and you WILL be on the hook for at least a decade plus eight years of retroactive child support.

    But then again, my warning is completely unnecessary. I cannot imagine any man being stupid or self-hating enough to even consider pulling off such a scam (indeed, only a woman could imagine such a thing being even remotely plausible). As detectives used to ask back in the days when solving crimes was an actual priority: “Where’s the motive?”

  193. Alexander says:

    Feeriker, all valid, but totally wrong because you’ve accepted the bullshit premise to begin with.

    If a male pill exists, men will take it and then go off and have as much sex as they can pull. They won’t pretend to take it and use its existence as a cover. They won’t lie about taking it when tee hee they really aren’t. This is total bullshit, with not a little projection thrown in there as well.

    The notion is absolutely ridiculous. Betas don’t cuckoo.

  194. Alexander says:

    A woman who argues this train of thought should not be rebutted, she should simply be mocked for having such an idiotic and irrational point of view. Giving it the respectability of formal debate is step one of the feminist attack plan should the pill ever come to be. Then we’ll have delays while we ‘investigate’ the ‘danger’ it could pose to young women until it’s inevitably banned and categorized as a date-rape drug.

  195. slwerner says:

    feeriker – ”Guys, don’t even think of trying to pulling off the hypothetical scam slwerner describes”

    Hopefully you understand that I was not intending to suggest that any man even try. My point was to show the absurdity of this Jen’s suggestion that guy’s would actually try to claim to have had a vasectomy (or being using other male birth control measures – when they become available) in order to get unprotected sex with a woman.

    Well, no, that’s not exactly the case. A man might get unprotected sex by such a ruse, but a guy who did is not going to be likely to ejaculate inside her for fear of her getting pregnant (unless, of course, if he had some reliable way of knowing that she was not in the ovulating point in her cycle). The Tramp Stamps so common on the lower backs of many of todays sluts are often called “targets” for a damned good reason.

    Still, even if a guy were to use such a ruse to get unprotected sex, his own efforts to avoid getting the woman pregnant will serve as all the risk-reduction she would need if she did not want to get pregnant via a ONS.

    I would imagine it is (still, as it has been for some years now) far, far more likely that a woman will lie about being on birth control or not in her fertility window as a ruse in order to get pregnant via duping a guy into unprotected sex.

    The warning that should be issued to young guy’s (as has been the case for many years now) is to never trust a woman’s claims that she cannot get pregnant (via unprotected sex). And, of course, to always, always make sure she cannot get viable sperm out of your condom. [The “hot sauce” approach has made for some humor ancedotes. But, beware, if you don’t warn her, you could get sued (http://antimisandry.com/general-news/habanero-sauce-condom-law-suit-45112.html).]

    But yes, no guy should ever be tempted to try the scenario I suggested – in jest.

  196. feeriker says:

    @slwerner:

    No, I understood the point you were trying to make with Jen and didn’t think hat you were seriously suggesting that any guys would try the scenario described. I guess I was just trying to second you in making it clear to Jen that her scenario was the height of absurdity. You never can be too careful these days!

  197. feeriker says:

    @Alexander:

    To which of my posts were you referring? You’ve lost me here.

  198. Anonymous age 71 says:

    @Anonymous Reader:

    Nails it. Few women over 30 in rural Mexico marry, and each year older the number goes even lower. There may be a very few cougars for ONS, because men here cannot hold their liquor well, heh, heh. But, LTR? Not likely. And, older woman with much younger man for anything but instant sex? No.

  199. Alexander says:

    @ feeriker.

    My bad – I lost myself as well. Your response to slwerner… which was not a response from you to one of the ladies arguing against those sneaky men lying about being on the pill.

    My point stands that arguing this point is an exercise in futility at best and detrimental to ever getting the pill on the market at worst, but yes… I went about that in a very roundabout way and confused your post for something it wasn’t. Sorry.

  200. Anonymous age 71 says:

    I do think there will be men who pretend to use the pill but don’t. Not many. But, from time to time there will be in the news some dirtbag who has impregnated 20 or 30 women with no job and no intent to ever get a job.

    In most cases, these men are visible as bums from a block away in the dark. They are called ghetto bums or white trash.

    However the solution is simple. Both men and women must take responsibility for their own fertility.

    Women have historically been saddled with responsibility simply because male birth control methods are very limited. Have sex with an inner tube, which is about as exciting as, um, having sex with an inner tube.

    Or, have a vasectomy, which you must assume is permanent, though technically it may not be. That is it.

    The male pill will free men from having to trust women who are motivated to lie.

    In fact, the whole female fear of men lying about being on the male pill really takes intestinal fortitude.. Studies have shown that most women feel it is justified to lie about being on the pill, because cowardly men “need the woman to make that decision for them.” This is another example of simple projection. They assume men will all act like women and that is scary for them.

    I worked with a man who used to say: A Scout is: Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent. A FEMINIST IS NONE OF THESE.

  201. Jen says:

    @8 to 12 – “This is because you have stereotyped men”

    Yes! That was my point! It is actually very refreshing to find that there are men who value marriage and children – despite the animosity directed at women. I thought my husband was one of a very few….

    @slwerner –
    Well, we agree that ONS are a bad idea. I still say they are much riskier for women: pregnancy, higher risk of contracting STDs, possible violent attack…. A growing number of males are unemployed and prowling the bars/clubs – you guys call them “alphas” – I think. Girls call them “sleazebags” – but, these guys would not be at the clubs if they were ignored.

  202. Jen says:

    In response to the discussion about how reliable and rational men will be in regards to claims of a vasectomy or possible future male pill:
    Gentlemen, you have obviously never been the object of intense male sexuall desire.

  203. Mark says:

    @Anon 71

    “”Hug just said, NAWALT. What a surprise! Nobody ever told us such a thing before.””

    What a surprise!

    I think Hug should RE-READ your post at “”September 4, 2013 at 10:41 pm””………as to women posters in here. That hamster is really getting some mileage!

  204. slwerner says:

    Jen – ”I still say they are much riskier for women: pregnancy, higher risk of contracting STDs, possible violent attack”

    I agree that women do have a greater risk of being physically attacked during a ONS, and that women are at the greater risk for contracting an STD (Although men are certainly not immune). But, I think the pregnancy risks are greatly mitigated by the strong desire on the man’s part to NOT get a woman pregnant. (hint – long gone are the days when a man could simply walk away, leaving a pregnant woman to fend for herself, with little risk in trying to do so).

    The real risk of a woman ending up with a truly unwanted pregnancy via an ONS is from low-lifes – as you get around to addressing….

    ”A growing number of males are unemployed and prowling the bars/clubs – you guys call them “alphas” – I think.”

    I think most call them “thugs”, although their ability to get women to have sex with them yields them to be de facto alpha males. It’s a bit of a more involved discussion to explain how they share a number of key traits with other alphas (of higher socio-economic station). But, yes, alphas, never-the-less.

    ”Girls call them “sleazebags””

    Some girls call them “sleazebags”, but many call them “irresistibly sexy”. And, therein lies the crux of the problem you seem to be focused on.

    ”but, these guys would not be at the clubs if they were ignored.”

    Ah! And this gets to the matter of women needing to act like responsible adults and control themselves sexually.

    It used to be that lose women ended up paying the price. Now, either taxpayers or some man who gets tagged as “the father”* ends up on the hook to take care of the all-too-predictable results of woman’s bad choices. (that’s what I mean by things having not changed for the better, BTW)

    In the end, you were way off-base in imagining that many men would seek to trick women into (risking) getting pregnant. Using trickery to get pregnant is overwhelmingly a tactic used by women. There may be some – very few – who would do this. But, they will typically only those who have nothing to lose should the state come after them for child support.

    *Do note that in many cases, a man is simply named as “the father” – despite not being the biological father – merely as a matter of convenience for money to be confiscated by the state to be given to the mother of a child (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Garcetti” He refused to rescind judgments against men who later proved through DNA evidence that they were not the fathers in question, in the best interests of the child. By 2000, 79% of paternity judgements in Los Angeles County were assigned by default.”; also see http://www.paternityfraud2.com/litigation.htm)

  205. Hug Schmug says:

    Men Going Their Own Way = Women Who Get Old With Cats. (Meaning if you can’t get someone to love you, blame them, don’t blame yourself?) Nothing screams sexy like a man whining he can’t get laid and it’s evil woman’s fault. Does it ever occur to the MGTOW crowd maybe the Cat Woman opted out, too?

    My “feelings” don’t get hurt from a blog. I know men who have been screwed by the system, but then, I know men who have been jerks to women, too. No one has a lock on being a victim. But if you think your anecdotal b.s. “I know a rich old dude who has a young babe who loves him for real” sells to me, dream on. Maybe in those 3rd world countries, whatever. Go live there. I was married young and made a lot of money and had all kinds of social access to the second and third wives of rich old men. The women were all cheating. All of them. These same husbands had no problem hitting on me, because leopards don’t change their spots. (Reasons the first wife dumped him.) When I told them their trophy wives were cheating…their simple male brains could not comprehend. It didn’t compute. Ahhh, maybe I hurt their feeeeewings? (Tennis and golf pros, ski instructors, guitar teachers, weight instructors, massage therapists…., so many fit and toned YOUNG men, so much of old dude’s money to spend….plus the instant access to rich hubby’s wealthy male friends; what’s a pretty young thing to do?) Wasn’t Larry King’s 7th wife cheating with the very hot…soccer teacher?

    But maybe men don’t care if she cheats? I dunno. I do think that is a big reason older woman don’t want a younger man, she knows he’s gonna cheat. He isn’t worth it. Who is the realist? Plus, old Robert Redford is not young Robert Redford. The old ugly stick hits everyone, eventually.

    I do know very wealthy 50+ women who have no problem snagging younger muscled gym rats. That’s the good thing about money. You have options. And money in 3rd world countries goes further than money in the USA, so if you can’t score here, score a younger woman elsewhere! After all, you deserve it by virtue of being…an American man. As a bona fide American Babe, I don’t want you, so I am happy you have a place to score! Just…be careful. Grateful is quick to turn into scorn once the new lifestyle kicks in.

    I’m not a feminist, whatever that is. I am a big believer in personal responsibility for men AND women. I’m not a man hater. Each side has their cross to bear. Ad hominem attacks don’t dent me; I know who I am. You can only surmise. In fact, I get laughs when you write like you “know” me.

    I like this blog. I enjoy reading your comments. I don’t care if you attack me or disagree. It gives me better insight into how some men process the world.

  206. slwerner says:

    Jen – “In response to the discussion about how reliable and rational men will be in regards to claims of a vasectomy or possible future male pill:
    Gentlemen, you have obviously never been the object of intense male sexuall desire.”

    ???

    I think you’re going to need to provide some explanation here. Because, it sounds like you’re suggesting that women would not question any man who showed intense desire for them.

    Do you truly believe women to be morons? Or, simply feral animals, devoid of any ability to control themselves sexually?

  207. Hug Schmug says:

    To claim women are predisposed to lying about being on the pill is ludicrous. If that were always the case, women wouldn’t lobby so hard for the “choice” of an abortion. The sad fact is sex as recreation will always carry the risk of an unwanted pregnancy. When a “bad” woman does end up pregnant (evilly ensnaring the poor hapless innocent male who wasn’t using his big brain), sorry, both parties are at fault. Men do know that sex=babies, right? Sex with a ONS, or a person of questionable character…is risky for both parties. An analogy is a woman going into a hotel room, alone, with a man she doesn’t know. If she gets raped; she bears some responsibility for being there in the first place. RIGHT?

  208. slwerner says:

    Hug Schmug – ”To claim women are predisposed to lying about being on the pill is ludicrous.”

    ???

    Perhaps it would be helpful if you could learn to read for comprehension.

    Please go back through the posted comments and try to find even one instance of anyone suggesting that women are predisposed to lying about being on the pill.

    No one said any such thing.

    But, the reality is that some (look up the definition of “some” if you’re still struggling to understand) women have, and still do, lie about it in order to get pregnant. The reason that they have done so, and continue to do so, is simply that men are much more likely to be extremely careful to NOT get a woman pregnant (understanding the financial repercussions to themselves). Yet, some women DO wish to get pregnant – either because they desperately want a child, or they desperately want a monthly check for having a child. Thus, since men are generally seeking to avoid getting women pregnant so as to avoid becoming financially liable, those women who do want to become pregnant DO resort to lying in order to try to get pregnant.

    If this is too complex for you to grasp…well, then you are pretty much hopeless.

  209. Alexander says:

    Nothing wrong with women choosing to opt out. Nobody here is bashing nuns. But I’m sure it’s a coincidence that the most of the ones who “opt out” just some how feel the need to scream from the rooftops that 1. They don’t need nor desire a man nor 2. There are no more good men to be found.

  210. feeriker says:

    Huck Schmuck said: To claim women are predisposed to lying about being on the pill is ludicrous. If that were always the case, women wouldn’t lobby so hard for the “choice” of an abortion….[et cetera, ad nauseum]

    Deti, I hope you have access to the Cray of hamsterlators. The pocket model is going to burn out quickly on this one.

  211. Anonymous Reader says:

    To claim women are predisposed to lying about being on the pill is ludicrous.

    Yes, yes, yes, men should cast aside their own personal experiences, they should not believe their lying eyes, no, they should humbly accept whatever pearl of wisdom dribbles out of the mouth of some feminist. Because feminists know more about what it is like to be a man than any men could ever know. Because feminists never lie. And, in your case, because you say so and that should be good enough for the rest of us, apparently.

    Ahem. Your statement contradicts reality. Therefore it is false.

    I wager that the vast majority of men reading this over the age of 30 has been lied to by at least one “Oh, I’m on the pill!” woman. Nearly every man reading, and some men more than once, depending on any number of variables.

    Why? Lots of reasons, including the female desire that sex should “just happen”, rather than be planned out in advance. Or because of a desire to force a commitment. Or other reasons. Because of the Female Imperative, to be brief.

    Men know that intercourse can lead to pregnancy. Men also know that intercourse with a condom on can lead to pregnancy, especially if the woman fishes the condom out of the trash and shoves the semen contained in it into her vagina. Men know that it is possible for a woman to insemenate herself with semen collected in her mouth, too. It’s rare, but it can be done. And any pregnancy obtained via these methods is treated exactly the same as a pregnancy within marriage, by the court system.

    If nothing else, men know these things from reading the news, it is rather common knowledge.

    Try again, this particular attempt failed to convince..or to even pass the laugh test.

  212. Jen says:

    @slwerner -“???”
    I assume you have never been the object of intense male sexual desire, therefore, you are unable to grasp how irrationally some men behave. They want what they want NOW and will lie/plead, even beg, in order to get it. I agree that it is not rational or logical or nice or responsible behavior.

  213. feeriker says:

    Jen @ slwerner:
    I assume you have never been the object of intense male sexual desire, therefore, you are unable to grasp how irrationally some men behave. They want what they want NOW and will lie/plead, even beg, in order to get it. I agree that it is not rational or logical or nice or responsible behavior.

    WOW, guys, are we being treated to a feast here today: hamsterbation and projection, in banquet-sized portions!

    Students of behavioral psychology, jump in and enjoy!

  214. Alexander says:

    Oh, we’re all aware of how the alpha cad and the white knight delta are capable of behaving.in the presence of the object of desire.

    What we’re saying is that the former will fully expect to get what he wants and will have already popped his pill to prevent perpetual paternity payouts pending, while the latter is not going to have sex with the girl anyway and so renders the discussion moot.

  215. slwerner says:

    Jen – ”…you are unable to grasp how irrationally some men behave. They want what they want NOW and will lie/plead, even beg, in order to get it.”

    Well, that does make better sense than what I thought you had meant. I thought you meant that having never been the object of a man’s desire, I could not grasp how easy it would be to get me to believe a lie from him.

    I suppose what is being overlooked here is the matter of the efficacy of a lie about a vasectomy/male contraception use. Now, I do agree that some men would attempt it in order to try to get sex. But, since your initial worry was about it working, and women facing the possibility of getting pregnant by such a lying idiot*, I’d have to assume that you are specifically considering those instance when such a lie would actually convince a woman to go ahead and have sex – which would entail a women being really stupid or rather incapacitated (i.e. drunk off her ass).

    It’s a fairly safe bet that men aren’t going to approach women cold, using the line “Hey baby, I’m on birth control. Wanna f___?” Rather, such a lie would be more likely to be employed as a (desperate) means to try to overcome a woman’s objections based on her concern over a possible pregnancy, in which case, I would assert, it would typically have little chance of working to convince her (if it did… well, “stupid” doesn’t quite cover it, now does it?).

    And, even if it did work to get her to assent, a guy would likely simply pull out prior to ejaculating, having had most of the pleasure of unprotected sex, while still avoiding the needless complication of possibly getting her pregnant.

    Thus, in the end, there is little fear of guy’s using that trick to get women pregnant against their wills.

    Those guy’s who don’t worry about getting women pregnant (because they having nothing to lose by doing so) already have few problems getting women to have unprotected sex with them. A quick check of the Ghettos, Barrios and trailer parks ought to amply demonstrate this.

    *The guy who would try to counter a woman’s concern about getting pregnant by lying that he could not get her pregnant, when he could, and then actually proceeded to ejaculate inside her, is nothing short of an idiot. If a woman express such a concern, it should be a clear signal to the guy that she is NOT on birth control herself, and has reason to believe that she is in her fertile period. Only an idiot would thus intentionally risk getting her pregnant and suffering the subsequent financial consequences. Any man with an ounce of sense would realize the risk is much greater than the reward.

  216. TFH says:

    Virtually none of the women commenting on this thread, have a very good grasp of how women think.

    And no, being a woman does not mean they know how women think. Quite the opposite in fact.

  217. greyghost says:

    Jen
    You remind me of the joke in the arab world. A car salesman said his car was a “monica” as in Monica Lewinski. She was so irresistible the president just had to have her. So you are the Monica of the manosphere.
    If you are worried about getting pregnant that is saying loud and clear you are not on the pill. In that case it is in the ass or the pull out technique.
    Fellas as leaders in the manosphere (based purely on participation) look up Gandarusa and study that. It can be bought. And it will be a hit with the college crowds.

  218. Anonymous age 71 says:

    Hug says she is not a feminist.

    Rapists don’t get to decide if they are rapists. If they rape, they are rapists.

    Robbers don’t get to decide if they are robbers. If they rob, they are robbers.

    And, feminists don’t get to decide if they are feminists. If they do and say all the things feminists do they are feminists. Hug is a feminist. An especially nasty one.

    By the way, Hug, I do live in the Third World. One of the biggest benefits is I don’t have to put up with people like you.

    I also have encouraged a lot of other men to leave your wonderful nation where men are hated by women like you, while you claim not to be a man-hater. See comment about you not getting to decide what you are. I was on one board, and kept writing what life was like here and what the women were like. The board shut down because the owner and all the staff moved to other countries. Heh, heh.

  219. Anonymous age 71 says:

    Let me tell you about debating American women. Don’t do it.

    I got out of the Army in 1966. I started working in a large factory. This was about the time when feminism, aided by their MSM sycophants, was making its diabolical move to destroy all male influence in our society (as prescribed by Karl Marx.)

    When it started, I was also an idiot like most men. I still thought most women were morally superior to men, and had valid complaints about things men did. So, I supported feminism.

    However, feminism soon turned to the extremism we see today right on this blog. And, while I still felt women had valid complaints, I realized they were being too extreme. So, I started speaking out. Over that last 47 years, I have tried to debate many women. Well, not 47 years, because over 20 years ago, I realized debating American women is the most self-destructive thing a man can do. Total waste of time, even self-destructive.

    There are several reasons for this. First, women operate on emotion, not logic. Even if a woman speaks as if she is logical, emotion is virtually always in control of her mind. So, no matter what facts you present, she can only think how she feels about the topic. And, it is impossible to change her mind. As we see on these blogs.

    Next, as I wrote some years ago, on DGM-2, American women are collectively speaking, clinically insane. Let me explain that statement.

    People who are emotionally and mentally healthy can identify their problems. They can find solutions to those problems. And, they can implement those solutions.

    Neurotic people can identify their problems. They can find solutions to those problems. But, they are incapable of implementing the known solutions to those problems.

    Clinically insane people are simply unable to grasp reality. That is American womanhood today, with few exceptions. They imagine women were historically abused; exploited; and subjugated. They imagine today they are really put upon by the evil patriarchy. This from the most pampered, spoiled group of human beings ever to live on the planet.

    A surprising large number of women today, in surveys, will admit they see no value in men, that men contribute nothing to society. Yet, look around you. Everything you see; streets; cars; electrical distribution system; water and drain pipes;; the floor you are standing on; the computer you are using; the window you look out of; was developed and in most cases installed by men. Camille Paglia says if it weren’t for men, women would be living in caves wearing rabbit skins, and she is correct.

    We hear women complain about women being underpaid. Marketing statistics, examined, show that American women today spend all their own earnings, and a full 50% of every penny all men in the US make. And, this with the large number of men who are single and don’t give money to a woman. With all that money given to them for mediocre sex, they still want the businesses turned upside down to guarantee the same income from work that men who do harder and more dangerous jobs earn? See comment about clinically insane.

    Over that 47 years, a few times, single digit times, I could tell a woman knew I was right and she was wrong. The next words out of her mouth, ALWAYS, are, “Yes, but…”

    Meaning, I can see you are right, but I want my own way.

    “Yes, but…” is a true oxymoron. And, while I can imagine it might come out of a man’s mouth, I have never personally observed that. It is a feminine phrase.

    Once on DGM-?, a woman lawyer came on, telling us prenups will work if they are properly written, which is an absolute lie. She presented herself as a man. You know, I am a man, so you can believe me type garbage. I profiled her almost immediately as a women. But, then at one point, she said, “Yes, but…” And, I nailed her so hard she admitted it.

    I try to never debate women. If it seems I am doing so here, I am presenting the arguments for the benefit of young men who haven’t learned yet. As you have seen, nothing you say can convince Jen or Hug we know anything.

  220. Mark says:

    @Anon71

    “”Several years ago, there was a posting on a Don’t Get Married board by a man who claims he had a vasectomy and kept it a secret.”‘

    I know this piece very well……I loved it…and passed it around to about 50 friends of mine. Love your posts by the way.It is so nice to see some like yourself passing on “extremely important” information that you have accumulated through experience to other men that frequent this site…..especially,the younger men.Also,we do see the odd woman poster here such as Jen and JS but,I honestly believe that there are one hell of a lot more women that are reading manosphere blogs that do not post.I have had the opportunity of introducing this blog to a few women.Their attitude was “why do you read that stuff”?……but,the reality is that they have continued reading this blog…How do I know?…because I had one woman comment to me at the office about a few of the comments I have posted.She would not know my comments if she were not reading the blog?…L*

  221. Mark says:

    I’m 41 and was once considered very attractive by women. I still have my looks but am older.

    Most women I date are early-30s and up now. It scares me how unattractive I find them compared to women 28 and under. It’s like their party lifestyle between 28 and 32 sucked all the youth out of them.

    Each year I get more and more bitter at older single women. Their stories of how they’ve been traveling all these years or dating the “wrong guys” inflame me. I just want nothing to do with them. If I don’t get some of their best years, I don’t want them.

  222. 8to12 says:

    @Mark,

    Which is why the following is good advice: never marry a woman over 30.

    It wasn’t the party lifestyle between 28 and 30, it’s the fact that the party lifestyle they have been living since their teen years doesn’t start to catch up to them till about 28.

    It’s like the knees on a long distance runner. They are often a problem when the runner gets old, but the knee problems occur due to the accumulated damage the runner does to them over his entire running career (including his early running days).

    — Never marry a woman over 30 –

  223. 8to12 says:

    @Mark,

    “Dating the wrong guys” is code for: she tried to snag an alpha male and failed, so now she’s willing to settle for someone like you.

    You should be inflamed to the point of anger. What man wants to know that “settled” for him, because she couldn’t get the man she really wanted.

    — Never marry a woman over 30 –

  224. Jen says:

    @anon71-
    I have been thinking about your statement that “Women are the Gatekeepers of Sex”. I had never heard of this until I found this Dalrock blog. I guess it is one of those facts that was once common knowledge but has been all but erased from our cultural memory. Anyway, I am going to bring this up with my female co-workers as a discussion topic. And, the next time I fill out a form where I need to list “Occupation”, instead of “Glorified Clerical Worker”, maybe I will say “Gatekeeper of Sex” -sounds much more important!

  225. Opus says:

    Perhaps we are sometimes too hard on women who come here to be shocked by things that they hear for the first time; a new idea usually takes time to digest. So whilst Jen is considering the fact that women are indeed the gatekeepers of sex, I may be able to ease it down her throat a bit more easily if she considers and contrats the two following scenarios:

    After a Nuclear Holocaust, the survivors find themselves alone on a well stocked island:

    1. In the first instance there are one hundred female survivors and just one male. Within one year the population can double.

    2. In the second instance there are one hundred male survivors and one female. At the end of the year the population may have increased by just one per cent, but what is more likely is that civil war will have broken out amongst the men and reduced the population as they jockey for position to impregnate the female. Of course the men may not care about paternity and the female may be happy to service all the men on a regular basis. Why however should a woman do that when she can vie for the protection of the alpha male of the group?

  226. Luke says:

    25% of U.K. women ADMIT in a poll that they would lie to a man about using birth control, if they found it useful to do so:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-150257/Sex-lies-truth-women.html

    The real number is likely higher, given women’s solipsistic refusal to accept culpability.

  227. Opus says:

    At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, but so that Jen can understand that we don’t just make these things up: The reason that women are the gatekeepers of sex is one of biology; a woman is born with some four hundred eggs which she loses at the rate of one a month between the ages of 15 and 45, men produce sperm at the rate of 12,000,000 an hour. No one is to blame, that is the way it is, and as observation will demonstrate it is men who have the far higher sex drive; women, even at swinger’s clubs will play hard to get, until the ‘Muscle Mary’ walks in (and also the greater self-control) which is why when a woman shags the entire Duke Lacrosse team or the entire Gigolo population of Egypt and is proud of her efforts, although she may for a while impress her female friends – after all those guys got wood for her – it simply horrifies men (even as we wish we had been a member of the team or allowed ourselves to be rented by the hour). It is, as they say, as hard as falling off a toilet, drunk; which is why any average woman can do exactly the same.

    Of course if the woman has no desire for family, she can do what she likes, but should not I think act outraged if she is then propositioned without formalities by any Johnny-come-lately. As Blackstone observed, what is one man more or less to a whore.

  228. Dalrock says:

    @Jen

    the next time I fill out a form where I need to list “Occupation”, instead of “Glorified Clerical Worker”, maybe I will say “Gatekeeper of Sex” -sounds much more important!

    I don’t know about it making you sound more important, but that is quite an old occupation. Some would say the oldest.

  229. Vektor says:

    “The United States rate of unintended pregnancies is higher than the world average, and much higher than that in other industrialized nations. Almost half (49%) of U.S. pregnancies are unintended, more than 3 million unintended pregnancies per year.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintended_pregnancy

    ^ This in an age where women have almost complete control of their fertility.

    Set aside the debate over whether women sometimes lie and cause ‘unplanned’ pregnancies, and set aside the fact that women have financial incentives to do this, and men have serious financial disincentives to cause an unplanned pregnancy. Set aside the question of: can women trust men to take their pill, or can men trust women to take their pill.

    The male ‘pill’ gives men power to control their own fertility, and with this power is the responsibility to use it. Men and women – you don’t trust your sex partner? Take your pill. From a purely pragmatic perspective, it is better for bother parties to be responsible for their own fertility to avoid a single point-of-failure.

    The male ‘pill’ will be as important to men, as ‘the pill’ was/is to women.
    http://www.newmalecontraception.org/

  230. TFH says:

    Here is a woman who opposes a cure to Down’s Syndrome, with convoluted logic :

    http://thestir.cafemom.com/baby/160703/possible_cure_for_down_syndrome?result=comment_added&comment_state=nonmember&success=1#comments

    More likely, she sees the child as a social status prop, and the sympathy that SHE gets due to the child’s disability, is something she is loathe to give up. Hence, she does not want to cure the child.

  231. TFH says:

    Opus,

    Your comment is wasted on Jen, who, while a woman, is surely not personally a ‘gatekeeper’ of sex or anything else a man wants.

    However, your point ties well to my prior comments on why it was natural to divert all of society’s resources to women, and all costs onto men (send them to war, etc.), due to women being the scarcer reproductive component.

    But this made sense only when women produced their full capacity of children. Now that women only produce 10-20% of their full capacity of children (with many producing zero). Funneling resources to women no longer has a precise correlation with a) the survival of children, and b) women producing more than 10-20% of their capacity of children.

    Yet, they still take in the same resources, and pocket the difference. All the spending we see on useless items that women buy, on mortgages, on government programs, are manifestations of our biological wiring to funnel all resources to women, even though the reason for this is very obsolete.

    This misallocation of resources is in the early stages of correcting. This correction process will be the most disruptive event in human history, tearing the fabric of humanity asunder (but creating something much fairer after that).

  232. MarcusD says:

    @Jen

    Here’s a relevant piece of research:

    The Sexual Revolution of the 1960s and 1970s produced sweeping, far-reaching, fundamental changes in sexual behaviours, sexual desires, and sexual attitudes. Or did it? On closer inspection, many researchers concluded that men did not change all that much in their desires and attitudes, and their behaviour only changed because they got more opportunities to do what men had always been wanting to do. In contrast, women changed in much more fundamental ways. After the revolution, women approached sex and felt about their bodies in ways that differed sharply from previous generations (e.g., Birenbaum, 1970; Schmidt & Sigusch, 1972; Arafat & Yorburg, 1973; Bauman & Wilson, 1974; Ehrenreich et al., 1986).

    Baumeister, Roy F. “Gender and erotic plasticity: Sociocultural influences on the sex drive.” Sexual and relationship therapy 19.2 (2004): 133-139.

  233. MarcusD says:

    @Opus
    No one is to blame, that is the way it is, and as observation will demonstrate it is men who have the far higher sex drive

    Interesting you should mention that – I recall coming across the following book:

    Valerio, Max Wolf. The testosterone files: My hormonal and social transformation from female to male. Seal Press, 2006.

    It was written by a feminist writer who had a sex change and became a male. The author, Max Wolf Valerio, describes being blown away by the urgency of his newly acquired sexual urges and his constant sexual fantasies – “sex was now food.”

    “There is this thing about men that [women] cannot completely know. Few people want to believe that there could be a real chasm, a chemically induced difference of sexual drive between the sexes. Few want to believe that there might be any difference at all that is not socially constructed.”

    “Now that I am Max, I see that this rift, this fundamental chasm between men and women’s perceptions and experience of sexuality, is one that may never be bridged. There certainly can be no hope for understanding as long as society pretends that men and women are really the same, that the culture of male sexuality is simply a conflation of misogyny and dysfunction. That the male libido is shaped and driven primarily by socialization, that can be legislated or ‘psychobabbled’ out of existence.”

    The reason I quote that is because it was written by a feminist.

  234. Opus says:

    The above quote from Marcus D via Baumeister is worth noting. I would think it absolutely correct that most men’s attitudes have not changed; that is, they would take the extra pair sex if they could get it, but otherwise desire a wife and family. They would regard the woman who provided the extra sex much the same way as their great grandfathers would have regarded a woman who put out (for money) that is to say possibly desirable but unmarriagable. There are, however, a sizable proportion of females, who as TFH says in The Misandry Bubble decided that they wanted to be just like men and thus joined the military, demanded a place on the Board and decided to have all the casual-sex they assumed that all men were having. It was easy for these women, and so it had to be easy for men too, so that their promiscuity was exactly like male promiscuity, not merely not bad but actually evidence of their empowerment. They were encouraged in this nonsense by liberal Marxist enlightenment thinking that insisted that sex was merely a social construct and that the purpose in life of most males was to oppress females. Far too many failed to notice that the grass was not usually so green for men who in practice bent over backwards for women and that men will not simply decide to man-up for women who leave it too late (say post thirty-five).

  235. Luke says:

    MarcusD says:
    September 6, 2013 at 3:04 pm
    “…I recall coming across the following book:
    Valerio, Max Wolf. The testosterone files: My hormonal and social transformation from female to male. Seal Press, 2006.
    It was written by a feminist writer who had a sex change and became a male”

    There’s no significant possibilty this feminist is any such thing as a person who was a physically complete, normal female human (nonhermaphrodite) who was “changed” by surgery/hormones into an equivalent, complete male human. She could not have gone from producing ova and having a usable uterus to producing sperm capable of fertilizing ova. Further, her chromosomes would undoubtedly still be that of a female (not just the XX vs. XY issue, but many other genes). And, she of course hasn’t had the effects (hormonal, socialization, etc.) from living life as a male from birth.

    Nope, just another nutcase who got mutilated, but stayed the same sex as they were born.

  236. MarcusD says:

    That’s true (assuming she didn’t have any of a range of chromosome abnormalities). In the end, it’s still worth quoting, mainly just for the difference in testosterone levels provoking such a major response (and the fact that feminists “bought it”).

  237. Luke says:

    Marcus, anyone who wants to experience the effects of varying testosterone effectiveness need only age. It goes up for women by their 40s, and up (and then down) for men over the course of their lives.

  238. MarcusD says:

    The natural increase in women is quite different than the ‘artificial’ increase brought about by such a surgery (and much lower). I’m not saying it’s a perfect example, of course. It’s just interesting to see a feminist undertake such a surgery and end up saying, “yeah, I guess men are a bit different after all.”

  239. DrB says:

    Bob Dylan discusses jumping off the carousel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu3GT6FXpOs

  240. Jen says:

    @Opus/MarcusD –
    Thank you – very good info. My husband and I are discussing all of this right now. I am getting ready to delve into one of the feminist blogs to introduce this topic – just trying to find one that might be receptive – which is almost more intimidating than being a female posting at Dalrock….

  241. MarcusD says:

    @Jen

    I truly doubt you’ll find one. I myself have read quite a range and number of feminist blogs, and there isn’t a single one that would be receptive to that. I remember a Cambridge professor, Dr Martin Sewell, writing a response to a paper (authored by a feminist) using some of the same kind of information as above (scientific research, etc) – people were calling for his resignation within hours.

  242. Anonymous Reader says:

    Jen, let us know which blog and when you start posting, in order that we can determine how many days, hours, minutes and/or postings transpire before you are banned from the site.

    Because I’m wondering if the ban hammer will drop on you quicker than on a man, the same as on a man, or slower, in the interests of science.

  243. MarcusD says:

    I’ll tell you right now: it won’t drop sooner than it would for a man (yes, research has been done on things similar to that).

  244. Anonymous Reader says:

    MarcusD, I wouldn’t make book on that. There are ways for women to get banhammered on feminist sites as fast or faster than any man. And yeah, there’s been research done on that.

  245. shadowofashade says:

    OT, but I found an interesting link to dating tips for women in the 1930s:

    http://designtaxi.com/news/360363/Humorous-Dating-Tips-For-Single-Ladies-During-The-1930s/

    Don’t a lot of these sound like current dating tips for men?

  246. MarcusD says:

    @Anonymous Reader

    I was not aware of research done on that with regards to feminist websites. Could you share it?

  247. Anonymous Reader says:

    First person research is not necessarily sharable. My suggestion is that you go to feminist websites and read them for a while. Then adopt a female persona, post there & see how long you last before being banned. Then you too will have first person research results.

  248. MarcusD says:

    Well, the research I was referring to used larger samples (N>250) to get their results. While I don’t doubt what you’ve experienced, there needs to be a better design to control for a whole array of confounders (amongst many other things, like a control group, etc).

  249. Opus says:

    I wanted to add, that in my fictional island populated by one hundred men and a girl some might wonder whether the woman would be forced to have sex with one or more men, not of her choice. I think that to be unlikely for men police each other and because men white-knight women, any male stepping out of line and assuming the right to have sex with my lone female would be severely dealt with by the remaining men, and this would be the case whether she had partnered with one man or none. Thus, whether in my Hobbesian island or modern civilisation the same dynamic is played out.

    But what, you may wonder, should the woman, a strong empowered cougar at that, decide to take on – Duke Lacrosse style – the entire island population of men. The men would doubtless be fairly happy – after a fashion – but none, other than the lowliest male, would want to regard her as ‘his’ woman, as who would want to volunteer for his own cuckolding. The likelihood of that scenario happening would however be slight for even a slut has preferences for one male more than another, as in normal civilisation, or at a swinger’s event.

    There was a woman whose name was Barbara who in the Seventies slept with all the rock-stars and in consequence earned herself the title ‘Butter Queen’ – a song (I rather liked) was named after her. Even rock stars have to put up with sloppy-seconds, but I guess none married her.

    There is I think an inverse rule that the more slutty the woman the more she will talk of morality (Shakespeare’s protesting too much). A stripper who (not that we knew this would happen) gave a blow-job to one of our number (the alpha-male of the group) at a private function at our local pub one Sunday afternoon was, before her performance, waxing lyrical about the appalling state of morality in the country. One cannot but agree with her, can one?

  250. Anonymous Reader says:

    Well, the research I was referring to used larger samples (N>250) to get their results.

    Cite, please.

  251. MarcusD says:

    Start with: Rudman, Laurie A. “Sources of implicit attitudes.” Current Directions in Psychological Science 13.2 (2004): 79-82., and work your way through the bibliography.

  252. MarcusD says:

    First person accounts generally fall under anecdotal evidence – I generally don’t accept it. I think it’s important, as movement, to move towards conclusions that can be cited or replicated. Anyhow, you have your research citation.

  253. Anonymous Reader says:

    MarcusD, I do not see how your cite supports your claim.

    Your claim: I’ll tell you right now: it won’t drop sooner than it would for a man (yes, research has been done on things similar to that).

    That is to say, a woman posting to a feminist website would not have the banhammer drop sooner on her than it would for a man.

    Your cite, if I have followed the link correctly:

    Response latency measures have yielded an explosion of interest in implicit attitudes. Less forthcoming have been theoretical explanations for why they often differ from explicit (self-reported) attitudes. Theorized differences in the sources of implicit and explicit attitudes are discussed, and evidence consistent with each theory is presented. The hypothesized causal influences on attitudes include early (even preverbal) experiences, affective experiences, cultural biases, and cognitive consistency principles. Each may influence implicit attitudes more than explicit attitudes, underscoring their conceptual distinction.

    Please explain how your cite supports your claim that a woman posting on a feminist website would not be banned sooner than a man posting on a feminist website.

  254. MarcusD says:

    “things similar to that”

  255. Jen says:

    @AnonymousReader/MarcusD –
    I submitted a comment yesterday afternoon at one of the feminist blogs, but the comment is still awaiting moderation. I suspect, by the time the comment gets added, it won’t get many views. However, my comments thereafter will not be held for moderation.

    @Opus –
    You may be familiar with a historical example, somewhat similar, of your fictional island: the HMS Bounty/Pitcairn Island incident. I believe that there were more men than women, but, obviously not 100 men and 1 woman. Many of the men ended up killed in various jealous rivalries. I do not think anyone has ever investigated whether or not the women engaged in promiscuous or chaste behavior; but, it seems I have read that a couple of the women were killed, also. Enough men and women survived that there is still a population, descended from the HMS Bounty crew and the Tahitian women, on Pitcairn Island.

  256. Anonymous age 71 says:

    Having read extensively on Pitcairn Island over the years, let me point out for the record the women got pissed at the men, and slaughtered several of them one day.

    One of the reasons the men were killilng each other is the white men felt they got all the women, and the Tahitian men got none, no land, and had to work for the white men.

    They were also drunken a lot, someone made booze, and while they were drunk often abused the women. This may well have motivated the women to go on their rampage.

    When an American ship found the island some years later, there was only one of the original men still alive, and he was father of most of the island babies.

    By the way, Pitcairn Island has a URL, with current pictures of the Island and some of the residents. Very interesting.

  257. Opus says:

    I have to confess that my examples were made without even thinking about The Mutiny in The Bounty, but extreme though they be they do focus the mind on the dynamics likely to play out.

    Pitcairn Islands is also the least inhabited part of the British Empire (although we do not refer to it as that these days – British Overseas Territories is the present nomenclature – as we don’t wish to upset our former North American colonists). Ah! that was the day as a small boy when my father took me aside and proudly showed me his own school Atlas pointing out that all the red-coloured land, that is to say most of it, was ours.

  258. Or to put it another way Opus, you were the caretakers and mercenaries that most of it was put in care of. Since WWII that role was transferred to the USA but that will probably be changing momentarily.

  259. Opus says:

    @I Art Laughing

    I can hardly agree with your interpretation of history, not least because I believe it impossible to find one single American (whether white or not – and that includes the Kenyan) who cannot pin-point on a map of the British Isles some tiny hamlet or village where he asserts that he has some sort of right as that is where he says his ancestors (doubtless arriving on The Mayflower) came from. No British person talks like this.

    As for the Indians – I have recently by chance watched a couple of Bollywood films which have scenes set in Courts of Law – and cannot but notice that in Indian courts (indistinguishable form the ones round here) there is on the wall behind the Judge a photograph of a (sometimes disbarred but now posthumously reinstated) member of The English Bar.

    I feel sure that we can find some convenient way of readmitting Am’rica and Am’ritsar back into the Commonwealth of Nations – drawing a veil over your former disobedience . You know you want to.

  260. Since WWII that role was transferred to the USA but that will probably be changing momentarily.

    To whom will it be changing? What nation state will take over for the United States? Name a country (any country in the entire world) that has sufficent population (and population growth), resources, technology, military commitment, and education, to take over as world’s policeman?

  261. Jen says:

    @IBB –
    Despite all of the anti-Western drivel one is bombarded with – there is no nation with the ability to take over for the United States, and, of course, we learned much of what we know from the British. Western males are responsible for most of the great achievements of civilization – as Anon71 alluded to earlier – and, how does anyone else compete with that? (I am not putting down Western females, here, because we are an important component of all of this – maybe the most important component.) Charles Murray wrote a book about this very subject (of which I cannot remember the name, right now) – pretty difficult to refute his findings. This is not to dismiss the contributions of others, but, yes, I had to go there – politically incorrect as it is. Everybody knows this, whether they admit it or not – which is probably why everybody rails against whom? Western males, of course.

  262. @ Opus

    You are going to cease to be a nation yourself if the tides of multiculturalism and feminism are not soon rolled back (and it doesn’t appear that they will be). Bragging about Empire status is about 80 years out of phase with reality. (Our family came from “nobility” in Somerset, a town that T.S. Eliot wrote of and one of my ancestors, a namesake, came over on the “Mary and John” and built a house in Newburyport.)

    @ IBB

    Your argument is flawed. If I had asked the same question of Rome at around 280 what would have been the answer? Conflating the existence of something with it’s utility is a basic error. Just because the world needs a policeman doesn’t mean that one will be provided. Collapse is always an option, just try calling the police in Detroit.

  263. Well things may collapse (as nothing took over for Rome for 1000 years, no Islam does not count) but if that happens, we will all suffer for it.

  264. @IBB,

    Check out the Seneca Effect:

    “It would be some consolation for the feebleness of our selves and our works if all things should perish as slowly as they come into being; but as it is, increases are of sluggish growth, but the way to ruin is rapid.”
    Lucius Anneaus Seneca, Letters to Lucilius, n. 91

    Something I’ve proven to myself over time that feminists are rabidly unaware of.

  265. @ Name a country (any country in the entire world) that has sufficent population (and population growth), resources, technology, military commitment, and education, to take over as world’s policeman?

    Here are some thoughts on this rather difficult topic- YMMV
    – Racial tension is high – civll / class/ race war is right around the corner.
    – The USA turns over authority to UN and this is enforced by the DHS.
    – The USA could not stand a multi-nation attack weakened by civil war.

  266. Opus says:

    @I art Laughing

    I rest my case (nobility from Somersetshire) – I might have had a similar story to tell had not my commoner forbear been expelled from the Massachusetts colony in about 1640 – jeez, when you are too much even for New England Puritans you know it must have been bad.

    ‘England is finished’ – that is what certain people were saying in 1777 and I had an expat girlfriend (English) who was saying just the same in 1985 (stupid woman) . Talk about getting it spectacularly wrong.

  267. mustardnine says:

    I may be taking this conversation sideways, but I hope that I am not derailing it.

    On the importance of a HOME to a MAN.
    This comment results from an incidental email that I received today from the Jeffrey Gitomer people, which led me to this link.

    http://salesbarista.blogspot.com/2013/09/theres-no-place-like-home.html

    In the context of SALES, of all things, Stephanie Melish says, briefly, with the EMPHASIS MINE IN CAPITALS:

    There’s No Place Like Home

    I have learned that home is a distinct word that can create special emotions for each person. I’ve also learned that you must create three home fronts in order to be your best.

    How to create your best three homes for success:

    – 1. Personal home . . . sanctuary . . . “WHOEVER INVENTED THE CONCEPT OF THE “MAN CAVE” WAS SPOT ON! I challenge you to create your own man cave room. Don’t argue with me and say, but I don’t have an extra room to make all for myself. Improvise! At minimum create your own “space” just for you. A spot where you can read, think, write, create, pray, and be with the best person in the world, you!”

    – 2. Work Home. . . . How are you TAKING OWNERSHIP of your work home like you do your personal home? Do you take the time to adorn your work space and your actual WORK with your personality and interests? Or do you simple check the tasks off your list without taking full home ownership?

    – 3. Internal Home. THE SPACE INSIDE YOUR BODY IS YOUR INTERNAL HOME, your mind, your conscious, your heart, and your spirit. This the most important to take care of, and usually the one that is most frequently ignored. . . . What’s your passion? What’s your interest? What are you doing about it? How’s your spiritual home?

    – 4. LIVING ROOM: In every home you have to TAKE THE TIME TO WORK ON THE LIVING ROOM. That’s the area where you actually make the room to live . . . When you combine the physical place with the people and the pleasure of experiencing life together, that’s when you are home.”

    Thus far, Stephanie. Now ME.

    I think that her comments suggest a kind of TO UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE MANOSPHERE IS ANGRY ABOUT, and what they (we), the males, are looking for — at least, many of us (natural betas?). Many men are (rightly, in my opinion) looking for two complementary things:
    – a home base that is secure for themselves and their children; they assume, as a given (wrongly), that there will be a companionable and loving wife who wants to make this happen
    – that the existence of a home base should not contradict, but should enable, their other interests — work, male and female friends, adventure, growth and change, and an old age that is as contented (or lively) as they hope.

    – Too many young females do not agree that making a home needs to be their high priority — and that their home is going to have a MAN IN CHARGE OF IT.

    GBFM might again remind us of (the middle-aged) Penelope waiting for Ulysses, working at her loom, guarding as best she can her man’s house and his bed. The Cougar is the direct antithesis of all that.
    GBFM is right on: virtuous men have ALWAYS KNOWN THIS.

    Beware the Cougar, because
    – for whatever reason, she hasn’t made a home with a man in charge.
    – in fact, she has intentionally walked away from HOME in search of SLUTTERY.
    – at her age, she really is too old to change.

    Dalrock: I am sorry for these capitalizations. WordPress is new to me and I haven’t figured out the codes for boldface and italics. Feel free to edit this. Thanks

  268. mustardnine says:

    Sorry, when I said,
    I think that her comments suggest a kind of TO UNDERSTANDING
    I meant to say
    I think that her comments suggest a kind of “missing link” TO UNDERSTANDING
    The missing link was the “missing link.” How apropos.

  269. Jen says:

    “Feminists” are certainly not the only ones who are “rabidly unaware” that the way to ruin is rapid. Many men and women are dismissive of the potential for disaster – economic collapse, in this case. It is called “normalcy bias”.

  270. Lion Cheetah says:

    Ladies we ALL need to stop saying NAWALT – by all of us saying NAWALT – in jackassese we are merely confirming to them that ALL WOMEN ARE LIKE THAT. They do not think in exceptions. If you want to utter the phase NAWALT — stop – you are using your “emotion” filter to try to win a point.

    They filter threw a “ego” filter. Whatever my opinion it is RIGHT. They are RIGHT fighters. They only care about being right, not about seeing any other point of view.

    Ladies, we must simply admit once and for all they are 100% right and we are 100% wrong.

    They truly are THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE.

  271. @ Jen. IMO “normalcy bias” is an effect of the blue pill. Raging hypergamy, the resulting economic, family and societal breakdown are all masked behind NAWALT. The loss of resiliency in our culture due to all male spaces being feminized is going to start taking its toll. Atlas is shrugging and nobody notices specifically because they are getting their long pursued goals, and surely after decades of clawing those goals must be good and cannot be questioned.

  272. Anonymous Reader says:

    MarcusD, one of these things is not like the other…

  273. Pingback: Women Will Never Struggle as Much as a Man | The Reinvention of Man

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