Expectations vs outcomes.

Mark Richardson of Oz Conservative explains the mindset of career women who missed their opportunity to have children in his post “We’ve assumed we can put it off indefinitely”:

It’s not that these women have entirely rejected the idea of motherhood, but it is not actively pursued – it is something that is assumed will just happen of itself at some indefinite point of time in the future.

The women in question are 40 something UK career women quoted in a recent Daily Mail piece.  They always assumed they could have it all;  marriage, motherhood, and career, but the motherhood part of the equation at least turned out to be beyond their grasp.  This is the exact opposite of what 55 year old feminist Elsa Walsh described in her recent Washington Post article Why women should embrace a ‘good enough’ life (H/T Greenlander).  Walsh expected to have to make serious trade offs in order to indulge her feminism:

…when I enrolled at the University of California at Berkeley in 1975, I held three truths to be self-evident: I would never marry. I would never have a child. And I would have an interesting job, as a writer or a lawyer.

I wanted to be independent and self-supporting. I wanted love, but I wanted to be free.

Even after graduating college she was quite serious in her feminist ideology:

I embraced my feminism proudly. I always wore pants to work, and I swore off (stupidly, I recognize now) reading any fiction by male authors.

And yet despite her hard boiled ideology and her swearing off marriage and motherhood, the cultural inertia left over from a previous era seems to have guided her without her knowing it.

…I announced — to my parents, my friends and yes, to my boyfriend — that I was never getting married. Marriage was a patriarchal system, and I wanted none of it. We would stay together because we wanted to be together, I said.

Seven years later, I married him. And I was happy. Instead of feeling trapped, I felt liberated and secure and protected — not by patriarchy but by love. He had a young daughter whom I adored, and of course, seven years after our wedding, I had a child. I’d been wrong about that, too.

Second wave feminists like Walsh were able to have the best of both worlds.  They were able to boldly declare their uncompromising feminist politics in their youth and yet somehow end up directed into both marriage and motherhood.  They didn’t expect to “have it all”, but it just somehow happened.  Fast forward a decade and the 40 something women in the Mail article describe the exact opposite.  They always expected to have it all, and because they didn’t take deliberate action and make compromises they lost the opportunity to become mothers.

Ironically the difference in both expectations and outcomes is directly attributable to the “progress” made by the previous generation of feminists.  In addition, there is strong reason to expect that the discrepancy between expectations and outcomes will only increase for younger cohorts of women, especially those who feel it is important to have their children within wedlock.  Each new cohort of women continues to delay marriage further, and there are limits on how far out childbirth can be delayed.

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420 Responses to Expectations vs outcomes.

  1. Gilgamesh says:

    Feminism is the radical notion that you can put childbirth off indefinitely even after sex ed teaches you that you have a limited number of eggs.

  2. Ashley says:

    If having a family by childbirth is important to them, then yes they should consider their age and health. There is always the option of adoption if the are physically unable or become past that age that doctors think safety is an issue.

  3. tbc says:

    feminism is ENTIRELY dependent on modern reproductive technologies without which it would quickly collapse.

  4. Hopeful says:

    ” They didn’t expect to “have it all”, but it just somehow happened.”

    This statement says it all. Younger women are thinking “why her and not me? She didn’t even try and it happened for her.” You know people say things happen when you least expect it, so they take that advice.

  5. alcestiseshtemoa says:

    Eggs can’t be frozen forever, just like sperm can’t be frozen forever. They die overtime after a while. On their own, they rot and there’s little that can be done about this factor. Some IVF children can be sired with them, but the children themselves and their upbringing isn’t going well (despite all propaganda to the contrary).

    Here’s a collection of such Frankenstein experiments —> http://www.anonymousus.org/index.php

  6. alcestiseshtemoa says:

    But the rates of success for IVF are low in general.

  7. Casey says:

    Just Desserts……….for a movement that richly deserves them.
    Women cannot have it ALL their way, ALL of the time.

    Similarly, you can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time………..but you cannot fool ALL of the people, ALL of the time.

    Men are waking up to the new reality of marriage 2.0………and saying ‘Nah, why bother.’

    Women are discovering that childbirth, & childrearing are a young girls game; but only once they are too old to precreate, and too unattractive to land a decent man.

    Here’s hoping a generation of feminist spinsters will learn something useful, and pass it down to younger generations.

  8. John says:

    Of course, there are women who get pregnant at work, and take advantage of every perk possible. Some also whine and moan about their pregnancy, getting lots of syyympathy from co-workers and bosses. I sit right across from one.

    IMO, if you choose to work AND get pregnant, deal with it. Don’t expect special treatment. But I’m in the very non-PC minority.

  9. A says:

    > and I swore off (stupidly, I recognize now) reading any fiction by male authors

    That’s funny. I just read an opinion piece in my local paper where a feminist lectured us readers on the evils of men who don’t read female authors.

  10. ar10308 says:

    alcestiseshtemoa,
    That link is filled with tragedy. I pity those poor souls.

  11. Outcast Superstar says:

    Hi Dalrock,

    I believe Women’s Fertility peeks out at around age 27.

    Women don’t seem to grasp that guys are very visual and are attracted to cute feminine women who are 18-24 years old.

    When guys thinks of the special soul mate, we think of a cute sweet feminine college age lady who was loyal and cared for them through thick and thin of the journey and eventually getting established and enjoying success together. Also, we think of the special soul mate that also would happily cook and clean.

    Quite frankly there is nothing attractive about getting involved with a 30 years old plus career woman. First she denied you the best years of her life while other guys got the benefits of her best years. Also, they have proved they are not loyal and won’t stick with you through thick and thin. They are unlikely to cook meals for you and of course with the biased divorce laws a man will get destroyed once the career woman gets bored of him. During the career women’s youth (her most desirable years) these ladies already demonstrated that their future husbands were too boring to give them their time of day and will only ‘settle for them’ once they only have 10% or less of their sexual currency value remaining.

    It shouldn’t be any surprise why decent men are bailing out and more 30 plus year old women are unmarried and childless.

    Two days ago I did a blog entry doing a case study on Jody Arias to demonstrate just how much a woman’s sexual value will plummet in a matter of 5 years

    http://outcastsuperstar.blogspot.com/2013/05/case-study-jody-arias-in-2008-and-jody.html

    Your readers will get a good entertaining read by rant by Christopher in Oregon discussing why older women are not designed to breed.

    http://happybachelorsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17090

  12. mackPUA says:

    @OC

    Great post, & I love christopher from oregon

    Anyway A few corrections … lol

    Womens fertility peaks WAAAY earlier at around 20-23 …

    “Women’s fertility peaks in the early 20s, and drops considerably after age 35″ wikipedia ..

    Which is WHY men find 18-24 chicks attractive

    This visual bullshit about men is pure nonsense, men ARE BIOLOGICAL, attraction is a BIOLOGICAL PROCESS, it has NOTHING to do with men being visual

    Men are attracted to young 18-24 women, PRECISELY because men can SENSE their fertility

    Also men AREN’T BAILING out women in their 30′s

    Women ARE PREYING on men, by dressing younger, trying to look younger & act younger then they’re age

    This is the ONLY way for a 30 year infertile woman to con a man who deserves a young, hot fertile chick

    30 year old women, are all con artists, they bring nothing to the table, except miscarriages & a cheap 2nd rate vagina …

  13. Opus says:

    The above article particularily resonates with me by reason of a disagreement I have been having with my local Council (whom I have accused of Institutional Misandry – I, in return, have been accused of being Offensive – oh the shame). Briefly – because I have described it at greater length elsewhere on the Net – I have taken issue with an Exhibition they have been running entitled Inspiring Women where they are attempting to encourage young Grade School Females to aspire, beyond the unmentioned Marriage and Motherhood, to great achievements outside the home. Some of course may achieve true fame, but most won’t and some I fear will be misled by the thinly-disguised anti-male polemics such that they will end their lives in bitter regret. The Council, in true Pontius Pilate style, tried to wash their hands of my complaint (which I thought on re-reading to be courteous, witty, and well-written) wherein I liken what they are doing to child-abuse. Not to be fobbed-off, I wrote again suggesting that my letter contained complaints of sufficient seriousness that burying my letter was just not good enough. (It was then that I was accused of Offensiveness, though still without any attempt at a rebuttal).

  14. mackPUA says:

    Btw this is the future of feminism …

    “Alice Walker believed so strongly that children enslaved their mothers she disowned her own daughter”

    “From the age of 13, I spent days at a time alone while my mother retreated to her writing studio – some 100 miles away. I was left with money to buy my own meals and lived on a diet of fast food.”

    …. lol

    The future of women with zero maternal instincts … this is WHY its so important for women to be virginal … as women dont have any empathy or care for their own children …

    Unless a woman has the intense bond formed between a virgin & her child

    THIS is what happens when women deny husbands their virginity … the childrens lives are destroyed

  15. Hopeful says:

    Are you implying that Alice Walker wasn’t a virgin when she married?

  16. mackPUA says:

    “Are you implying that Alice Walker wasn’t a virgin when she married?”

    Of course im implying she wasnt a virgin … she’s a bankrupt slutty feminist, who cock hopped her way to marriage

  17. Part two of that series focuses on career chicks who choose to have children out of wedlock:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2321587/Middle-class-motherhood-crisis-The-single-career-women-wish-donor-babies-fathers.html

    This quote leapt out at me: “Nurse Caroline Saddington, 40, from Newark, Nottinghamshire, who has a four-year-old son William by a UK sperm donor, concedes that solo parenting is a compromise, not an ideal.
    ‘In your teens you envisage marriage and two children,’ she says. ‘Then my 20s were career-focused and I got to my 30s and hadn’t met a man good enough to be a father. They fell far short of my expectations.
    ‘But life doesn’t always work out as you wish it to. I don’t regret that mine has taken a different course. How could I? If I’d done anything different I wouldn’t have William and he means the world to me.’”

    See what she did there? It’s men’s fault for failing to live up to her expectations that she had to go to a sperm donor. Sometimes life just doesn’t work out the way we want. It’s not because of her own decision to spend the prime of her youth and fertility pursuing career goals.

  18. slwerner says:

    Off-topic, but California Rep. Janice Hahn believes Obamacare Will Improve Marriages

    “It’s an interesting angle, to talk about people who really only have jobs for the health insurance as being one angle to that. I had a friend who got married to the wrong person just so she could have heath insurance. So, we’ll also have a lot of less bad marriages as a result of this,” Rep. Janice Hahn (D-CA) said at a Small Business subcommittee hearing on Health and Technology on Thursday.

    She doesn’t actually mention anything about Obama Care helping 40-something career women land a husband and/or baby, just how it might help low-end gold-diggers who might otherwise have “settled” for some beta nice guy just to be able to mooch off his health insurance.

    However, I’m not convinced there’s all that much of that happening. Rather, there’s a much higher probability that a Democratic Californian will have primarily other nut-jobs for friends.

  19. Haha, when a Dem says something, you take what they say, do a 180, then act on it…

  20. When a Repug says something, you consider it, realise that they will flip flop on it come election time and then they will apologise profusely, after the election, for ever having thought of something so evil and 1950ies like…

  21. Cautiously Pessimistic says:

    Along these lines, the generation that raised the first of the latchkey kids is getting to the point they need to be taken care of. I wonder if low-grade parental abandonment during a child’s formative years might negatively impact the strength of devotion to their parents?

    Used to be, families would look after each other during times of need. As things stand, I suspect a coming boom in the Old Age Home industry. And that’s on top of all the elders that never raised any kids at all

  22. DrTorch says:

    Outcast Superstar- Your top couple of paragraphs are spot on. 100% Correct! Why is it that even the church hides the truth?

    As for the main entry, I believe this is how 1 Tim 2:15 gets interpreted. Women are selfish (solipsistic) beings, but it is through the gift of being a wife and mother that they grow to something more. Elsa Walsh learned that through experience. Older women should be teaching that to their daughters and younger women.

  23. wolf says:

    good points mackPUA but I will have to disagree with you on one part:

    “”This visual bullshit about men is pure nonsense, men ARE BIOLOGICAL, attraction is a BIOLOGICAL PROCESS, it has NOTHING to do with men being visual

    Men are attracted to young 18-24 women, PRECISELY because men can SENSE their fertility”

    It has to be visual also. I don’t know about you but I’m not going to sense their fertility, if she’s the size of Shamu and looks like a walrus(obesity in America). Not my style, the 18-24y/o’s need to look healthy and fertile IMO.

  24. Instead they teach them cock and career, not motherhood, and that life will magically provide them with a male, who earns a lot, who forgives all her cock hopping and pill popping magic ride through her twenties time, and marries her willingly and is happy to take care of the one or, perhaps if he’s lucky, two children, who may or may not be his.

    Yay! I’ll leave with a quote from an aspire slutfem.

    So, Girls, Fuck All of It

    If you want to. Or don’t fuck any of it, if you don’t want to. Fuck women. Fuck men. Fuck no one. Point is, you get to fuck what you like, when you like, and your worth is not determined by some golden ratio of extreme boner tantalization vs. minimal boner touching. BONERS ARE NOT THE BOSS OF YOU. You are the boss of you.

    - by someone from Jizzabel alleyway hookers and Co.

    Yep indeed. Purity is bullshit, except if you want to get married…

  25. Hopeful says:

    ““Are you implying that Alice Walker wasn’t a virgin when she married?”

    Of course im implying she wasnt a virgin … she’s a bankrupt slutty feminist, who cock hopped her way to marriage”

    How would you know this? I have no idea if she was or wasn’t. But from reading her books and listening to interviews, she has said that she grew up in a very sexually repressive culture. She grew up in a time when people just didn’t talk about sex. This is an undercurrent in many of her books. Now, she did divorce her husband and leave her child. And I do have some issues with her feminism. As much as others on this blog demand to see research that backs up their assertions, I’d like to see your proof for this statement.

  26. adiaforon says:

    I’ll give Walsh credit for criticizing Sheryl Sandberg in her speech. Sandberg is an aberration and, by extension, a terrible role model for women, period. I think she’s able to do that because she’s enabled by the culture of overwork, which isn’t confined just to men.

  27. mackPUA says:

    @DrTorch

    “I believe this is how 1 Tim 2:15 gets interpreted. Women are selfish (solipsistic) beings, but it is through the gift of being a wife and mother that they grow to something more.”

    Brilliantly put …

    Women are born to be cock hopping, carousel riders, its the mothers & fathers who steer them into marriage & being a wife

    Its the being a mother & wife, which saves most women from their narcissistic, vagina worship

  28. It’s not that these women have entirely rejected the idea of motherhood, but it is not actively pursued – it is something that is assumed will just happen of itself at some indefinite point of time in the future.

    That’s a very interesting point. For many women, it’s not so much that they’re opposed to marriage, as that they just assume it will take care of itself. She’ll skip through life, having a good time, until one day Mr. Right sweeps her off her feet and puts a ring on her finger. I suppose that’s not surprising — any halfway attractive woman starts getting proposals of dates and more by the time she’s 15, and they just keep coming, accelerating into her 20s. It must seem like choosing from the buffet; she doesn’t have to be in a hurry or think about it, because they keep bringing out more dishes. If you miss one, there will be another.

    Women didn’t used to think that way, though — or at least society encouraged them not to. I’ve seen old black-and-white movie shorts that taught women how to be popular without being slutty. Girls had home-ec, and wealthier ones had finishing school, to teach them to be feminine and ladylike and skilled for homemaking, all to catch a good husband. They used to understand that getting a good husband was something you had to put some effort into, the same way men understand they have to work at finding and attracting a good wife.

    I suppose what changed is that society devalued the skills a girl used to work at — femininity, poise, cooking — which mostly left the ones she didn’t really have to work at: sex and availability. Plus it told her other things were valuable, like a career or “independence.” So a girl starts a career that will provide a good income, makes herself fun and available sexually, learns to be independent (she thinks) — all the things she wants in a man — and assumes marriage will just come calling when the time is right thanks to all that.

  29. mackPUA says:

    @Hopeful

    “As much as others on this blog demand to see research that backs up their assertions, I’d like to see your proof for this statement.”

    Sure lemme grab a micro-scope & ill go examine her hymen records …

    Fact is, she’s a feminist & most feminists cock hop their way to a husband … ALSO alice walker managed to bag herself a pretty rich hubby … not something a virgin does in the 21st century

  30. Hopeful says:

    @mackPUA

    Key word being “most.” Also Alice Walker was born in 1944 and married in 1967, not in the 21st century.

  31. an observer says:

    It still bemuses me that wonen expect men to lap up sloppy seconds once they are done having fun.

    Sadly, good church girls think the same way, that after years of ‘it just happened’ and a child or two, that they deserve prince charming and a white horse.

    Several of the women i was acquainted with in their twenties are now involuntarily childless spinsters in their forties. Ironically, two of them raise other peoples children for a living.

  32. mackPUA says:

    @hopeful

    If you can find the research to prove she was a virgin, go ahead post it

    I’ve got better things to do then research for a single comment post … especially if she’s alice walker

  33. ahlstar says:

    If women are so inherently good and their virginity is not valuable and necessary, how come God saw fit to cram a hymen in there, granting men a way to discern through their bullshit lies?

  34. John Titor says:

    Yeah, we get it, you don’t like Alice Walker. What she did is pretty deplorable. I’d go so far as to say that I’d imagine that no one here likes Alice Walker.

    That doesn’t excuse you from making an unsubstantiated claim and using it as part of an anecdotal proof. That’s like me claiming that your posts are proof of how belligerent women are when they try to take part in the manosphere, implying that I’m making an unsubstantiated claim of you being female. This kind of flexible logic is very unbecoming.

    Now, I understand that you are making a bit of a point with it as well, that you’re expressing your dislike of her. I think that’s fine, go ahead. You shouldn’t have to start a research project every time you want to gripe or take a verbal jab at something. But when you also use it as the basis for “this is WHY its so important for women to be virginal”, it becomes beneficial for all of us when the proofing becomes more rigorous.

    That said, I think it would be a fascinating topic to cover, how virginal woman bond with their children vs. low-N vs. high-N women, and whether or not it’s due to biological factors or the ideology associated with the different camps.

    We should strive for truth and proof, not “feelings” and guesses as if we were feminists. :)

  35. Hopeful says:

    @mackPUA

    I can’t find any research to prove she was a virgin. I also can’t find any research to prove that she wasn’t a virgin either. My point is not to make unsubstantiated statements. If you want to critique Alice Walker, go ahead. I do it quite a bit. But evaluate her based on her writings and verbal statements.

    By the way, Alice Walker is known for coining the term “womanism” which is considered a branch of black feminism (a bit different from more mainstream white feminism) that is concerned with the treatment of both men and women. She is one of the first black women to consider black men’s plight under patriarchy as well as black women’s. This makes her valuable to the study of black feminist literature. Now “womanism” isn’t perfect and I’d say in some ways she falls short of these ideals. I’ve always thought feminism was a bit of a misnomer. Most of feminist theory address the ways that female is a socially constructed identity. What gets left out is that male is also socially constructed. It becomes all about women, which I find annoying.

  36. Michael says:

    “Each new cohort of women continues to delay marriage further, and there are limits on how far out childbirth can be delayed”

    -They delay it because it will always be theirs for the taking. But they are right aren’t they? To a certain extent if they want it bad enough there are always men willing to settle down no questions asked.

  37. deti says:

    Brendan pointed out on Mark Richardson’s site that delaying marriage is not really yet having an appreciable effect on these women’s ability to get married. Most women are still marrying by age 30 even though age at first marriage is still creeping upward.

    But all that these women are seeing is that older women and their peers have been able to get married. What they are not seeing is that many of these women aren’t marrying as well as they could have when they were younger, their most fertile, and at their peak sexual attractiveness, It’s not a stretch to say that the men they could have married were probably of better caliber than the men they did marry.

    I went to college in the late 1980s in the midwest. I’ve kept in touch with a fair number of the women I knew. On balance the ones who married younger did as well as they could, and have stayed happily married. But they were the minority. The women who married when they were older, over age 28, married men they wouldn’t have given a second look five to 10 years earlier. It’s clear these women married men they think are beneath them and to whom they aren’t attracted.

    I have another theory that I am sure has been explicated elsewhere. What we’re seeing is yet another unintended consequence of feminism. Women would get educations and jobs and become economically self-sufficient. They would leave their little towns and move to BIgCity to meet the hot wealthy men and, if they want to, sleep with the really attractive ones. One of those attractive men would sweep her off her feet and ask her hand in marriage at EXACTLY the right time.

    And so it was presumed that men would continue doing what they had always done. It was presumed that even though our society would completely change and reorder itself to accommodate women’s freedoms, men would still do all the things women and society at large had seen them do for hundreds of years before. Women would do what they want, but men would still do what was EXPECTED. Feminism would change none of this. Men will always be there, you see. They’ll be there to change the oil in her car, police the streets and make them safe from bad guys, put out the fires, fight the wars, invent cool shit like cellphones and laptops and Facebook (oh my!) take out the garbage, change the light fixtures, fix the plumbing, and unclog the toilets. And if he couldn’t do some of those things, he would get an education, get a job, and earn the money to pay someone else to do it. And what’s more, a great man will be there when you want him, and more importantly, when you need him.

    What feminism didn’t count on was a small group of men improving their attractiveness and having pump and dump sex with them. They didn’t count on men not remarrying after getting frivorced. They didn’t count on men passing over the 30+ YO senior associate lawyers for the 22 YO hot struggling destitute actress or the cocktail waitress. They didn’t count on men refusing to take the continued pummeling in the MSM, the workplace, the university, and the church. They didn’t count on men refusing to listen to the continued “man up!” bleats.

    That’s another reason we have a widening chasm between expectations and outcomes.

  38. imnobody00 says:

    55 year old feminist Elsa Walsh

    Do you mean Susan Walsh has a sister? OMG! The world is bleaker than I thought. Please, Lord, save us from the rage of the Walshes.

    Second wave feminists like Walsh were able to have the best of both worlds.

    I said that some years ago in this blog (but referring to Susan Walsh). I said this at HUS too (I don’t write there anymore). SW is selling their own experience to young women: she managed to have it all: having hookups, serial relationship and marrying a higher beta with kids and the white picket fence.

    But this was possible because men were following the old script (the so-called “patriarchy”) while women were following the feminist script. This was peachy for the first generation after the sexual revolution. But this is not a viable script anymore because the culture has moved on since then and men have adapted to feminism.

  39. imnobody00 says:

    It must seem like choosing from the buffet; she doesn’t have to be in a hurry or think about it, because they keep bringing out more dishes. If you miss one, there will be another.

    Women didn’t used to think that way, though — or at least society encouraged them not to.

    This is the consequence of the end of monogamy. A woman who dated a lot of men was considered a slut, back then. This is why woman saved sex for marriage. This meant that there were not alpha men fucking beta women.

    This is how it worked. A 20-something girl who was a 6 has a 20-something suitor who was a 6, because older men were married and men who were a 9 looked for women who were a 9. Monogamy produces assortative mating.

    Now a 20-something girl who is a 6 has many men interested in her:

    20-something men who are a 6, a 7, a 8, a 9
    30-something men who are a 6, a 7, a 8, a 9
    40-something (divorced) men who are a 6, a 7, a 8, a 9

    Most of those men are only interested in sex, but women think they are also open to the possibility of marriage (projection). This produces a misleading appearance of abundance for young women.

  40. imnobody00 says:

    @deti

    Women would do what they want, but men would still do what was EXPECTED.

    And that’s the female worldview for the last 40 years in a sentence. Brilliant.

  41. Michael says:

    “They didn’t count on men passing over the 30+ YO senior associate lawyers for the 22 YO hot struggling destitute actress or the cocktail waitress”

    -I would turn down a six figure 30+ year old “senior associate” for a cute unemployed 23 year old who still doesn’t know what she wants to do with her life, living with her parents and working as a minimum wage grocery store clerk, ANY day of the week!

    That’s what these career women do not understand! They adopt attractive male attributes (i.e. confidence, independence, income, IQ) then project them at men as though we should get turned on! They couldn’t be more wrong.

    Am I the only guy who feels this way? I don’t know where they get these asinine ideas from! It’s outrageous. Tell me if this introductory description doesn’t sound a little too familiar:

    ‘I’m an educated, confident, successful, single independent women, with ambition and passion who knows what I want in life’

    Search any online dating profile for (mostly white) females ages 30+ in every major metropolitan area in the United States and I GUARANTEE you will run into this phrase or some variant thereof. Over and over again.

    These women are totally beyond hope!

  42. James says:

    It’s not that these women have entirely rejected the idea of motherhood, but it is not actively pursued – it is something that is assumed will just happen of itself at some indefinite point of time in the future.

    The problem here is that they are treating women as if they are men.

    60 years ago, a man need not have “actively pursued” marriage and fatherhood; but if he had normal biological desires and played by the rules, both would have happened “of themselves”. Marriage and parenthood “just happened” because the opposite sex had a different agenda.

    Well-meaning people decided that, on grounds of equality, women should play by the same rule book as men; and the result is the decline of marriage, the rise of the “cock carousel”, and the conversion of the world to a giant playground for PUAs. To compensate for our declining birthrate, we import people from societies that are even more dysfunctional than our own. This will not have a happy ending.

  43. sunshinemary says:

    Ironically the difference in both expectations and outcomes is directly attributable to the “progress” made by the previous generation of feminists. In addition, there is strong reason to expect that the discrepancy between expectations and outcomes will only increase for younger cohorts of women, especially those who feel it is important to have their children within wedlock.

    Let he (or she) who has ears to hear, let him (or her) hear.

    I have already begun gently instructing my thirteen-year-old daughter that if she hopes to marry, then it is marriage first and everything else a distant second after that. It should be a girl’s number one priority after pleasing the Lord. I just don’t care anymore how politically incorrect that makes me even among other Christians. A husband and children are so much better than some dumb job where people really couldn’t give a rat’s butt about you. There isn’t a career in this world with enough power, money, or glamour that I would be tempted to trade my husband for.

  44. Michael says:

    @ Outcast Superstar

    Awesome post.

    The thing that really gets to me is how oblivious they are (pretending or otherwise). Even when the subject of their waning years is broached they will almost universally revert to the following retorts (or some variant thereof):

    1) I look better now than I did when I was 23.
    2) I’m more confident now.
    3) I know who I am.
    4) I know what I want.

    All of these are supposed to arouse me and/or make me attracted to her. It drives me insane. I wish I could find some of my emails from Match.com. I’ve had them write back 2,3,4,6,7+ paragraph emails when presented with these these facts. Any guy reading this and currently trying online dating – feel free to give it a go. They will go absolutely ballistic. Trust me. You WILL get emailed back.

  45. Norm says:

    The bible warns about false gods. Feminism being one of them.

  46. Z. says:

    alcestiseshtemoa , a sad comment from that site link you posted:

    Single mother in St.Louis Mo

    I am a birth mother to a beauitful baby girl who is now 5 yrs old. I have always wanted to be a mother and age was against me and the fact that I had never met a Mr.Right . I love my child with all my being and only want to give her the best of everything just as all parents do. When I had the bio clock ticking I asked an ex who I had remained really close to for many years and have known him since I was 15 to help me. He was not into it for a long time it took me the better part of 2 yrs to convince him . When I did he went along with it and charged me for his “DONATION”. At this point in my life I saw what a great father he was to his other 2 kids and I thought he would be the same with this baby. Boy oh boy was I wrong. He is from an all Italian family and he claims they would not accept how she came to be. What a cop out. At any rate I was adjusting to being a only parent to my daughter till she has been asking alot of questions and I dont know how to proceed. My child is very intelligent and will ask me where her daddy is and why he doesnt love her. I tell her he does love her and that he lives very far away and that mommy and daddy just dont get along. The sad thing is he lives a hour from us and he sees his son who is out of state more than he has ever seen his daughter. I want to protect my child and not hurt her in any way so I dont know how to answer her questions she only just turned 5. How do I proceed I want her to know how much I wanted her and would not change a thing. Another thing that bothers me is that we were trying to conceive naturally and it did not happen we had to use a fertility Dr. How can he just walk away and how do I proceed with my child moving forward. Please help if any ideas.

  47. They Call Me Tom says:

    I can say as a male, that I don’t get much out of my job. Because of that, I find it a shame that so many women expect to find fulfillment from their job… when they have access to what would seem to me to be better paths to fulfillment… motherhood at least. I know when I have a wife and children, they will be the source of my fulfillment, the work is simply so that I can know they’re taken care of financially.

  48. They Call Me Tom says:

    @ Z: Raise her letting her know how much you appreciate her, in spite of whatever struggles you face to provide for her. Let her know of the struggles that you do face in her interest, and that they’re well worth it because you love her… that she’ll know the same when she has children of her own, and she’ll face many less hardships as a married parent rather than a single one. Those were the things I think my single father did right raising me.

  49. Z. says:

    “They didn’t count on men passing over the 30+ YO senior associate lawyers for the 22 YO hot struggling destitute actress or the cocktail waitress”

    -I would turn down a six figure 30+ year old “senior associate” for a cute unemployed 23 year old who still doesn’t know what she wants to do with her life, living with her parents and working as a minimum wage grocery store clerk, ANY day of the week!

    That’s what these career women do not understand! ”

    That’s because career people (not just people who work “jobs”) are upper middle class and upper middle class people don’t do stuff like that. Its not just “economic” in SES, but SOCIO-economic. That socio part is very important. High level degrees, multiple degrees, and success in mainstream lucrative careers are markers for “class”. That means a certain way of looking at and understanding the world around us. It means a certain set of values and ideals that they wish to pass onto their children.

    For us lesser mortals, those of us with “jobs” instead of careers, making a mere 1/4 if that of what the careerists make, well yeah, a cocktail waitress or chick living with her folks trying to figure out what she wants to do while cutting coupons for the old ladies in her check out line will probably make the cut.

    Just remember though that when she finally “figures out” what she wants to do, it might not include you!

    And this is just one of the reasons why the highly educated upper middle class careerists have the lowest divorce rates in the US right now.

  50. Michael says:

    @ Outcast Superstar

    -Is this true? (I’m asking in a – I’m quite taken aback kind of way)

    http://outcastsuperstar.blogspot.com/2012/12/trying-to-figure-out-why-men-arent.html

  51. They Call Me Tom says:

    (or @ the single mom referred to in the post)

  52. an observer says:

    Tom,

    Most people have jobs. Except on facebook or okcupid, where they magically transform into careers.

  53. AjaxMurgatroyd says:

    (from The Daily Mail story) “Twelve-hour days were standard; routinely she began work at 6am…When she began a new job with a £200,000-a-year salary in the London office of a German bank, she worked even harder to warrant her huge earnings. But her stress levels soared commensurately. Finally, in 2001, aged 33, she suffered a nervous breakdown and was diagnosed with depression…Meanwhile, her marriage, stretched to breaking point by her illness, collapsed. It took six years before Helen stopped taking medication for depression and by then she was almost 40 and single.”

    Welcome to Male Privilege, dumbass.

  54. Kaehu says:

    Hmm, I was at Berkeley for graduate school right about the same time frame as this woman was. I can tell you that the female students (“womyn” to be more precise) there were almost universally just nasty. (The nice ones ironically tended to be already married.) Opinionated, anti-male and anti- everything else, and just unpleasant to be around. One of the terms used for them was “harpies.”

    Three years there, and I didn’t go out with a single Berkeley woman. I just couldn’t stomach it.

  55. orion says:

    @MackPUA:

    If men do not react to visual stimuli, how come that porn is such a big industry?

    The only other way you could “sense” youth and beauty, i.e, fertility markers is via a vomeronasal organ and it is debated if you even have one, or only a vestigial one and primates who dont work via visual clues.

  56. Michael says:

    @ Z

    You’ve made the incorrect assumption. I’m a self employed attorney and businessmen. I live alone directly on the beach in Los Angeles. I’ve never been married. My adjusted net income was over $170,000.00 last year. My first fiscal quarter of 2013 is consistent with 2012.

    Economic class is not an issue for me.

    I’ve wanted marriage more than anything in the world. However I was passed over / rejected by women in college, law school, then throughout most of my twenties. Currently my business takes up all my time. I exist in my office chair. I am writing these comments from the office (7:00pm PST). I work long stressful hours. 60-80+ hour weeks. One day weekends (sometimes less).

    When I’m not working I’m physically active, playing video games, doing chores, or drinking. I lead a pretty dull life outside of the office. Whenever I think about not being married I crack open a beer or ten. Or perhaps an expensive glass of wine from my Vino, or make a mixed drink from my home bar. In any case it’s all n an effort to forget I’m alone. That I never found my soul mate. That I never duplicated the kind of conservative intact loving family I was raised in.

    So in spite of my income status – I would easily date and marry a young girl making minimum wage working at Starbucks, or the grocery store, living with her parents, unemployed; it means absolutely less than nothing to me how much money a women makes. If she was a sweet person, with a pure heart, with traditional morals, traditional values, and monogamous loyalty, who was looking for a husband, – till death do us part, I would marry her forever and thank God everyday for it. As a man I view it as my duty to live up to my responsibility in that role which (predominantly) is financially supporting our enterprise and family

    A self-entitled Cinderella in her 30′s is automatically disqualified. I received not a single year of her youth. This crux puts me precarious position because most of the women talking to me are in their thirties. The women in their twenties are not interested in traditional marriage and family. They are still eating their cake, having fun, riding a ferris wheel of men, partying, going on spring break, hooking up, etc. At best they are juggling men on their cell phones and bouncing from one ‘relationship’ to the next. That is.. until 30 hits.

    I don’t care about any women’s socio economic status and am not impressed at all. My job puts me in contact with many of these successful single career women and I have absolutely no interest. I had a women who graduated Harvard law interested in me. 34 years old. Loud mouthed and argumentative till death, who probably spends her weekends simultaneously fingering and arguing with herself. The fact my household income would go up by $100k+ via union with a 30+ year old career women’s means absolutely nothing to me. Same thing with another one. A banged out six I was not attracted to. Long story short, I was offered an 80k year account from her company (she was the decision maker) with the implicit understanding we would date and of course, ultimately, the money I made would have been put back into her pockets (trips, shopping, etc) and she would have total control over me in the relationship as the sole person in charge of the account. In other words she tried to use her “career women” status to her advantage. That is how pathetic and desperate she was for family and a good husband. In process – I would have been prostituting myself. Needless to say I turned her account down.

    I could care less about a how much money a women brings to the table. I know I can’t be alone in this thinking. If only women in their twenties knew the power of their youth. I would not be on Dalrock writing this shit I would be playing with my kids or making love to my wife.

  57. Outcast Superstar says:

    Hi Michael,

    Responding to this

    “-Is this true? (I’m asking in a – I’m quite taken aback kind of way)”

    http://outcastsuperstar.blogspot.com/2012/12/trying-to-figure-out-why-men-arent.html

    It’s definitely true. Rather than go into more stories I have from my blog or other websites

    I will post two links to amazon to books that discuss this in further detail.

    The best book is called Taken Into Custody by Stephen Baskerville, It’s the best book on Family Court and Divorce Industry Corruption to date. Also, its very well documented so his claims will be very hard to dispute.

    The other book I highly recommend is called From Courtship to Courtroom by Jed Abraham who is a divorce lawyer.

    The most frightening chapter is called When Your Wife Files for Divorce. Jed Abraham illustrates that in a high percentage of the time the Wife will make a false domestic abuse accusation in order to get the Husband kicked out of the house and this gives the Wife a huge advantage in the Family Court System. I just count my lucky stars that I found these books before signing a Marriage Contract Rather than after.

    If you are unsure if the divorce stories on my blog or other blogs are true. Then I highly recommend getting these two books one which is written by a divorce lawyer and the other which is very well documented.

    Then you will realize these divorce stories are just a few out of a million which take place every year.

  58. John2.0 says:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2321531/We-fought-equality-So-greedy-wives-sponge-ex-husbands.html

    With all the articles from the dailymail recently espousing womans poor choices with delaying conception\marriage and their ability to screw their hapless ex husbands for every dime they have, is the tide starting to turn I wonder ?

    Unfortunately it seems that the ONLY mainstream voices to be heard are females.

    Maybe this will change ? God moves in mysterious ways after all.

    Does anyone have any population graphs for the future showing the US\UK trends with the shrinking middle class white population who pays a net surplus of tax into the system (ala the only support), the lower welfare class or immigrants expanding (the tax drainers) and the outcome for all our futures ?

    Surely at some point we will reach a tipping point where the outnumbered payers or governments will go broke ?

  59. Highwasp says:

    Michael – right on target – bull’s eye! question: as a lawyer how do you feel about a prenup?

  60. terri says:

    I am right there with you on this. I am sick and tired of listening to women north of 38 bitching about not having a man. I know for a fact unless they were pick the meat off the bone uguly they had offers from men in high school, college and beyond. they turned them down for the fairy tale ending the dream man and life. But at north of 38 they need to realize he already showed up and they sent him packing. now they get what they get, which is an ever shrinking dating pool who are quitting in record numbers, or importing wives or slot C from another country. a country were the women are not gravitationally challenged or horizontally gifted.

    I will take all comments at redonkulas.com I do videos on this discussion

    terrence popp

  61. Lazlo says:

    Fresh off of OKCupid. I’ve taken the liberty of attempting a rough translation [in brackets]. She’s 35 and will absolutely “not settle”.

    “I’m looking for someone who is smart [educated] but not geeky [in sales], a risk-taker [aggressive] but not dangerous [clean record], kind [to me and my french bulldog] but not a push-over [aggressive with others], cocky [cocky] but not arrogant [to me], attractive [my friends think he's hawt] but not [more] vain [than me], motivated [makes $] but not manic [pays attention to me], and fun [my friends think he's cool] but not a clown [he talks less than me]. I like men who are similar to me: Confident [tall], passionate [aggressive] [and hot], well-grounded [owns a home], have the ability to manage a full life [I can tell my friends/parents/frenimies how "successful" he is], and can be spontaneous [gives me tingles] when the moment is right [for me]. I’m a very independent girl [I've been-there-done-that and slept around but now I want a real man/wedding/baby] and need a guy who is willing to have a healthy debate on occasion [put up with my argumentative nature and my endless droning on about myself during sportscenter]. On the other hand, I love it when I don’t have to order [pay for] my own wine [anything] [oh and he reads my mind - when I want him to].”

    These are a dime-a-dozen. I actually think the profiles are worse than they were when I first took a look 4 years ago. Even the photos are getting annoying. Online “dating” sites seem like they are just aggregators of the entitlement/expectation mentality.

  62. AlmostAnonymous says:

    just think of it as evolution in action

    Ultimately, the problem is self correcting, in time.

    -
    Michael,

    Get out of your office and start looking for someone much younger, certainly no older than mid 20′s. I’m assuming you’re still younger than 50ish?

  63. Michael says:

    @ Highwasp

    I don’t want to get a prenuptial agreement.

    I used to (and still do, to an extent) believe prenuptial agreements went against the entire core idea of marriage. I believed if a person felt they had to get a prenuptial agreement their marriage was somehow fallacious and they probably should not be getting married. I viewed prenuptial agreements as a joke. I can still remember my Dad (who met my Mom in college and has been blissfully married ever since) refer to prenuptial agreements as almost a joke.I was inclined to agree.

    However as I got older and watched people I knew and met lose everything I started to question my beliefs. My friend lost everything to an ex wife who committed adultery. The judge rewarded her with 70% and full custody of their daughter. The guy was hard working man and model father figure. He went from a two story house to a shitty 2 bedroom apartment netting $30k per year barely surviving. My friend did NOTHING to deserve what happened to him.

    In between I also watched other guys going through drama, child support payments and “new boyfriends” playing with their kids. My most recent example was a business associate. He is 77 years old and still working because his retirement was ruined in divorce. She got the house in Palos Verdes (rich area in Los Angeles) and alimony for life. In return he got to keep his business. But with his age (he is very smart but old and set in his ways) and when the economy tanked he lost his one man practice and took a job with a firm. He only got the job under the condition he bring his remaining clients over. So basically he just sits in the office as consul and collects a paycheck until his contract runs out and they give him the boot. Then he will collect small social security payments.

    I used to believe a prenuptial agreement was wrong but now I’m starting to wonder if it’s a necessary evil..

  64. Michael says:

    @ AlmostAnonymous

    I’m in my 30′s.

  65. Z. says:

    Michael, fair enough. One thing I can’t understand though is why you were consistently rejected by women. What is it about you that not a single one of the women you interacted with would not have you? Have you yourself ever done any rejecting? You say you refuse to date women in their 30s but if you still want to marry, you may have to. Not ALL women in their 30s are unpleasant in behavior. In fact most I know are not. That’s anecdotal but for whatever its worth, consider it.

    “A self-entitled Cinderella in her 30′s is automatically disqualified. I received not a single year of her youth. This crux puts me precarious position because most of the women talking to me are in their thirties. The women in their twenties are not interested in traditional marriage and family. They are still eating their cake, having fun, riding a ferris wheel of men, partying, going on spring break, hooking up, etc. At best they are juggling men on their cell phones and bouncing from one ‘relationship’ to the next. That is.. until 30 hits. ”

    That is, until 30 hits. OK so now’s your time to swoop in for the kill! If women in their 30s are eager to husband up some man, and you are eager to wife up some woman to create the family you’ve always dreamed of – perfect combo! Go for it!

    Your other option of course is to target younger women, in which case you better hop to it!

    I can’t understand a successful man living in a nice house on the beach not being able to wife somebody up. It just doesn’t make sense. You are either doing something wrong or you look very physically unattractive.

    In either case, there must be some sort of action you can take to reverse this situation.

  66. donalgraeme says:

    @ Z

    “I can’t understand a successful man living in a nice house on the beach not being able to wife somebody up.”

    You must be new here…

    Michael’s problem, and the problem of many of the commentators here and at other sites like Sunshinemary’s, is not finding a woman who will marry them. The problem is finding a woman worth marrying who actually wants to marry them. There are very few marriageable women out there in the US right now, and Michael, I and others can attest to this. If you haven’t picked up on this fact, stick around a while and learn.

    @ Michael

    I still say you need to take a long vacation and visit Eastern Europe buddy. With our money and status you should have no trouble over there if you focus your efforts on the more traditional regions within EE countries.

  67. an observer says:

    Z,

    The situation Michael describes seems fairly clear, to me. Many, many men experienence similar. Presribing a leap into marriage with a washed up ex carouseler is an extremely bad idea.

    Women ride the carousel in their twenties because they can:
    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/11/11/the-quest-for-a-kinder-gentler-carousel/

    They are busily finding themselves, travelling, accruing college debts for degrees in media and hr.

    Hypergamy warps a womans self estimate of dating value. The average woman in her twenties can easily get sex. The averge man must work hard. But a man without a partner is viewed with suspicion; there must be something wrong with him.

    Hypergamy means women find a proportion of men attractive. Jerks, douchebags and playas attract them. After repeated pump and dumps (‘it just happened’ sex…), the womans declining attractivness in her late twenties and early thirties leads to an epiphany: there are no good men left!

    Michael is absolutely correct, the risk of divorce rises in direct association with her n count. Some suggest this is due to biochemical changes and weakening ability to pair bond.

    Divorce also becomes more likely because the woman, who initiates most divorces, realises she was never attracted to hernhusband, and qrongly setledmfor a man in her approximate smv.

    She is now free to kick him out, claim most of the assets and ongoing chilimony.

    The problem is not exclusively secular. Good church girls succumb to a lack of tingles, and rape their beloveds in divorce court almost as much as their heathen sisters.
    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/01/16/mark-driscolls-feminist-foolishness-posing-as-christian-wisdom/

    Michaels dilemma is valid and real. Shaming him for failing to man up and marry a slut is a poor strategy for long term marriage and family life.

  68. an observer says:

    I can’t understand a successful man living in a nice house on the beach not being able to wife somebody up. It just doesn’t make sense. You are either doing something wrong or you look very physically unattractive.

    Spoken like a true woman, on behalf of the feminine imperative: Always and forever the mans fault.

  69. 8oxer says:

    Dear Z:

    I can’t understand a successful man living in a nice house on the beach not being able to wife somebody up. It just doesn’t make sense. You are either doing something wrong or you look very physically unattractive.

    I can understand Michael’s position perfectly. I’m close to his age.

    If he wanted to bang hoes, or marry a ho, I’m sure he’d have no trouble. He has already explained that he is not interested in hoes. He wants to meet and marry a woman who is fit for marriage.

    Like you, I’m convinced the situation isn’t as bleak as it might seem. I think he needs to get out more and start dating younger women. He might also have better luck opening up his horizons to women who have recently arrived in this country. Lots of women with 0 or low count to be found in immigrant communities, and many of these were raised in traditional Christian or Muslim homes with a strong father figure. I’ve met women from East Africa and Latin America who were pleasant, slim, and incidentally, much more intelligent and ambitious than the average American chick.

    It’s really not appropriate to insinuate it is his fault, though. A couple of generations ago, sluts and hoes were a small minority of women, and there were plenty of decent women to go around for men like him. Today, sluts and hoes are the vast majority. Having been to Los Angeles, I’d have no doubt that the sluts make up 80-90 percent of the female population there, though I don’t know for certain.

    Regards, Boxer

  70. Mark Minter says:

    I think two things are at play here, both are exemplified by comments made by women if there were no children. And the stuff this Feminist woman quoted in this post is pure bullshit. I don’t disagree with the gist of her message. But this feminist harpey tone is pure bullshit.

    If you regularly read Roissy, you become adept at seeing rationalization in what women say. He tears statements made by women to shreds and after some time you start to interpret what they say.

    Women just fail to understand just how far they fall in attractiveness in the eyes of the men they would wish to marry and mate with once they cross through the Marriage Zone, 26-28 time frame. They constantly still believe they have the same power over men that they had years before. The inertia of the options they used to have deludes them into believing that things haven’t changed. And the media and the culture just keeps pounding this bullshit into their heads. And even though there are still men that throw attention at them, they still might have beta orbiters, they still might have men close to their age, and possibly even younger, that pursue them for sex. But once those clothes come off and once the bright light of reality shines on them, then that attention that men pay, that ready sex she might now have to offer, does not turn into the commitment that they think will come so easily, that they think they deserve.

    I was 29 and had been in the Marines and took the John Belushi track through college. So at 29 I was still more or less part of the university community and all my friends and women were young students, 21 year olds. I met a 29 year old women. She literally picked me up and we had sex on the first night.

    And I was grossed out.

    The difference between a 29 year old and a 21 year old is amazing. I remember thinking how her upper lip scratched me when I kissed her, how much less soft it was than a young girl. I thought I feel some sort of razor or something. And mostly, how much less appealing and attractive her body was. And she was literally my first pump and dump. And I went straight back to young 20 somethings. Exactly because I could.

    And it wasn’t for four more years until I had an experience with another women even close to my age. This women was 31 and I was 3 years older than her. I was in peak male SMV. I hadn’t been with anyone older than 25 other than one 29 year old.

    And this 31 year truly grossed me out.

    She was a lawyer that worked for the most prestigious law firm in Texas, Jaworski. He had been the Lawyer that had represented Nixon during Watergate. She was set in life. Had I been a woman and she a man, then it would been a huge coup for me. And I had walked around her expensive condo and looked at the books on her shelves, the art on her walls, and thought how I had enjoyed her conversation, thought what it would be like to have an educated and accomplished woman in my life. And I truly wanted it to work out. She definitely wanted to pursue a relationship with me and everything was good to go.

    Until I slept with her.

    And I ditched her almost immediately and went back to my 25 year old girlfriend, who I almost immediately married.

    And I find women continuously overestimate their SMV when they are in their 30s. And when relationship after relationship in their 30s falls on its face, then that Hamster starts running. Those men couldn’t handle a woman like her. Those men ran because they knew she was better than them. Those men were immature. Those men only want one thing. And that list is tremendously long.

    And for years we all listened to them, to their side, and we believed them. Then the manosphere came about and we can read through the bullshit they continuously are serving at the All You Can Eat Feminist Buffet.

    This feminist mentioned in this article met her “boyfriend” to whom she announced she wasn’t ,marrying while in her 20s and he bonded with her, the 20something her. I don’t really think she actually used the words she used in her declaration. The whole Patriarchy thing is fairly recent. I think she used more of the 70s-80s terms about “a piece of paper not making any difference”.

    Until it did make a difference.

    I think she felt her SMV slipping and bought into marriage. Anything else is Hamsterbation. She knew she better lock that man down, especially a man who I assume was a Berkeley grad also. And I bet she felt “dread”, that “old dude” started getting hit on by other women, younger women, attractive women, who thought “Berkeley Grad huh? I could use me some of that.” And after locking him down, then she felt safe and secure. But it wasn’t above love, it was about Dread. Because she knows that marriage ain’t about the Patriarchy.

    It’s all about the Matriarchy.

    Marriage is an invention of the Feminine Imperative to fight Dread. Men only do it because

    (a) the Feminine Imperative prior to feminism had a cartel on sex and the religion conveniently forbid sex before marriage and women upheld that prohibition. And it was in the women’s best interest to uphold it. Now it is not. Massive cash and prizes come to single women, well, at least single women in their 20s. It is often the topic and theme of Dalrock that women have now co-opted the church to lift that prohibtion provided “she was in love”.

    (b) Love is a form of madness, insanity, a cocktail of cortisol and dopamine that rewards the man for being with his “love” and punishes him when he is not. Men literally have to be insane to marry. And if they are not, then they won’t.

    And it is almost impossible for men that have “options” to achieve that level of madness with a 30something woman, especially late 30something woman.

    And the Hamster machine is starting to run full out. People Magazine had a recent list of the 10 Most Beautiful Women in the World. Only 2 were in their 20s, Kristen Stewart, the manjaw and Taylor Swift who is of course, experimenting (with every hot name possible) then writing a song about it. The others were this list of over the hill, post wall women, Jenifer Lopez, Beyonce, and Gyneth Paltrow being the title winner. There are 50 models in print right now that would blow her away. All younger than 25.

    It is as if, as the Manosphere is starting to crank up, and is stomping these “pretty little lies” into the ground, to point out the reality to men, and to women that will listen, the main stream media is going full out in trying to preserve these myths that Feminism has perpetrated on women. And these bullshit rationalizations, even this one in favor of telling women that they should marry, all refuse to admit the real truth and admit to women, they can’t wait.

    But women continue to cling to these myths that they can wait and wait and wait. And then once they hit their 30s then failures in relationships begin to mount, and time gets chewed up. And they refuse to accept the true reason. Those men will not love them sufficiently to do what is necessary to build a union. They might be able to get into a relationship, but they don’t what it takes to emotionally “rassle” them man to the ground and get him tied up with the bonding and binding love that causes him to go insane. Sure, the men will have sex with them, but they won’t marry them. And soon enough even that will cease.

    Women need to learn that it is called “being fucked” for a reason.

  71. FuriousFerret says:

    “I can’t understand a successful man living in a nice house on the beach not being able to wife somebody up. It just doesn’t make sense. You are either doing something wrong or you look very physically unattractive.

    Spoken like a true woman, on behalf of the feminine imperative: Always and forever the mans fault.

    He probably is unattractive in either mannerisms and/or physical appearance to tell you the truth. Most men are. It takes active work to be physically fit and unless you have natural extroverted chrisma, having an attractive personality.

    He played the outdated beta provider role and has lost. He banked on job actually meaning something in third wave feminism.

    Not entirely his fault by the way. If you grew up in a fundie church, I simply can’t see how many people can escape the brainwashing. The guys I knew where either the athletic all American boy Tim Tebow types or the rebels that were forced to attend. Everyone else was taught by some mega beta herb to have some basterized form of Christianity rammed down their throats.

    It’s interesting to point out that what you are seeing is a man that wants a trait to be attractive to women and finding out it doesn’t work that way. It’s sort of similar to feminists wanting a snarky personality to mean something. He wants being a successful lawyer to mean something to young women but it simply doesn’t mean much by it’s self. It’s much more important to have social presence and looks than having a good job.

    So he’s painted himself into a corner. He doesn’t want to acknowledge reality that the demographic he wants will never find this attractive. He still hopes attractive circa 1960 will produce some results.

    I guess your own success is your prison. Can’t settle simply because your house and money are supposed to mean something. Can’t let that notion go. I think you should right now. Be honest with yourself. Money means nothing to young women without the personality to back it up. She already has her own money from her PR job. Why does she need yours at 24?

    Take a good long look in the mirror. Ask yourself do I really have a realistic shot at locking up a young girl for marriage? People need a reality check. If you are older and you want to marry and yet you’re not that attractive you are going to have make some hard decisions. Young chaste women are simply not a realistic option. So your options are more limited. Simply find a decent girl that looks good and looking to settle down. I know about the bonding and all that other bullshit but you don’t really have tons of options and that’s the name of the game here. Yes your risks are greater. But you know what you should have done to minimize those risks? Be attractive earlier in the ways they want. That’s impossible now, so maybe you should be playing the cards you have been dealt.

    I guess you can attack with ‘Man up and marry those sluts argument’. In an ideal world, then yes never marry any non chaste woman. But that’s a fantasy. If there are those types of women, they marry the alpha super clean cut Christian guy at 22. Just find a decent one with some decent looks and roll the dice or use your wealth and pump n’ dump older provider seekers yet live at odds with your moral beliefs. But do something.

  72. @Michael
    I’ve wanted marriage more than anything in the world. However I was passed over / rejected by women in college, law school, then throughout most of my twenties.

    When you were young 18-24, you were pursuing your career. Can you honestly say you were pursuing a wife at the same time, with the same intensity, the same commitment? Our baby boomer parents sold us all a bill of goods that the very first thing we need to do leaving high school is go get a good education (get massively in debt) so we can get a good job and then we’ll make it. It sounds like the right path but as we’re seeing more and more it has left men and women with good jobs but lonely.

    It is very realistic for a young man to learn a trade in his high school years, pursue marriage to a young women while he’s in his 20′s, marry, and then focus on his education and career. 18-20 year old girls are not looking for the white picket fence in the suburbs. Actually the bond that is shared by being young and broke and pursuing goals together will strengthen a marriage. It’s the story our grandparents tell.

    While there may not be an easy solution to your situation, we, parents, can learn from this and teach our children what not to do. As for you Michael, it may take prioritizing your career less and your pursuit of a wife more. And that may mean giving up some of the cash now. But you won’t lose your ability to make money. That knowledge stays with you.

  73. an observer says:

    Can you honestly say you were pursuing a wife at the same time, with the same intensity, the same commitment?

    Lol. No offence sd, but how is it that so many manosphere women are married to alphas?

    Whatever material success he may have achieved fails to acknowledge the lack of dating market value that most men live with in their twenties.

    It is what it is. A reflection of the hypergamous self entitlement attitude that infests most westernised women. This is what feminism has created.

  74. greyghost says:

    Look at that load of shit Sarah’s daughter has for Michael.

  75. FuriousFerret says:

    “Look at that load of shit Sarah’s daughter has for Michael.”

    LOL. The sad thing is that she’s a red pill woman right. What hope do the rest have?

    “It is very realistic for a young man to learn a trade in his high school years, pursue marriage to a young women while he’s in his 20′s, marry, and then focus on his education and career. 18-20 year old girls are not looking for the white picket fence in the suburbs. Actually the bond that is shared by being young and broke and pursuing goals together will strengthen a marriage. It’s the story our grandparents tell. ”

    You do realize we don’t live in 1955 anymore? Young women aren’t looking to build a future with a prospect.

    “When you were young 18-24, you were pursuing your career. Can you honestly say you were pursuing a wife at the same time, with the same intensity, the same commitment? Our baby boomer parents sold us all a bill of goods that the very first thing we need to do leaving high school is go get a good education (get massively in debt) so we can get a good job and then we’ll make it. It sounds like the right path but as we’re seeing more and more it has left men and women with good jobs but lonely. ”

    WTF??? Men have to pursue a career. He was probably trying hard as hell to find a wife. Plus if you’re looking for a wife you are probably guaranteed not find one since by the fact you are looking to get married means you are a beta chump.

    Is it really that hard to understand that men and women are hugely different with different circumstances and standards at different points of their age? Because from your post, it seemed like you were pretty much lumping them in all together.

  76. Johnycomelately says:

    “We’ve assumed we can put it off indefinitely”

    I think the issue is that pre 80s born women benefited from a post boomer fertility rate drop which accounted for more men than women being available (based on different age cohort preferences aka marriage squeeze).

    So post boomer women could play the field and still get married and younger women saw this pattern and thought they could play the same script.

    But as fertility rates leveled the sex ratio based on age cohort changed to parity, so there isn’t an abaundance of available men. Any dropping out by men significantly affects the sex ratios and late gen X is experiencing something that never happened to post boomers or early gen Xs.

  77. Lol. No offence sd, but how is it that so many manosphere women are married to alphas?

    He’s not an Alpha: Weak Man Syndrome

    He’s a very normal, everyday Delta.

  78. an observer says:

    The labour market is more screwed over than ever. Bureaucratic meddling makes small business difficult. And the bitchy princess queens of human resources in larger companies give preference to women in hiring.

    So when a guy busts a gut and achieves something, what does he get?

    Shaming. Criticism. Told he’s out of touch, too late, not committed to finding a woman and too self absorbed.

    Fantastic. All thanks to the suffragettes and their penchant for rights.

  79. Bluedog says:

    And now I too will weigh in on the Z/Michael spar. Sigh.

    For one: FuriousFerret … you speak some good truth bombs. Only thing I’d qualify is that there are times when I indulge the fantasy and really let myself dwell on the IDEA of a second marriage and without effort behind every grain of goodness there is a bucket of castor oil. Marriage is an abusive institution even for those whose hearts are in it most wholesomely. You enter it at mercy. So FF’s advise is hardheaded as it relates relationship facts but the legal abusiveness of marriage overshadows it all.

    Past that…Michael’s core observation is critical. Men were expected to play by a set of rules. They were not expected to adjust tactics to their own interests. That is Red Pill 101. Not seeing it is a colorblindness i.e.:”blue pill”.

    That said, I won’t pile on the criticism for Z that’s already been done but I do want to highlight that on one thing he has a point: class.

    The curiousity here is that this is another layer where color blindness abounds. There are gagillions of people who “get” the nonmonetary aspects of class. And gagillions who just…don’t. They either literally can’t see it or in a lot of cases, I think, won’t…it’s like a defense mechanism that prevents the painful reckoning with one’s own status.

    But class is at work and it does make its demands and either exacts its cost or makes its payoff and Z is right to note this. Michael is chosing to ignore the prescriptions and proscriptions of class. My read, and just a read here, is that class here is saying: “you make money, good for you, but you still don’t have the class to have what you want. For that you should have had this status 10 years ago.”

    That is just my read, could be wrong. Either way I think “red pill” is wisdom to look class/culture/social-expectation back in the eye and say “no deal”.

  80. greyghost says:

    This article is what I would cal voluntary childless spinsterhood with it slowly evolving to the involuntary. The women chose to be career women. My thing is a male pill. now it is not up to her wether or not she has a child. As an asshole MRA as soon as a male pill comes on the market. I will come out of the”closet” as a feminist and I will do all i can to encourage all women to empower themselves to be true to their feelings and fuck every dick they want. Imagine watching a slut shit on the nice guys that respect women and fuck the players that get the gina tingle on. When the late twenties arrive the bitches can’t even cukold a beta chump because the players are on the “pill”. Think of the college athletes going into the pros childless. No baby momma pay out but one worn out boozed up pussy. I’ll be right there chearing them hoes on. I might even be so kind as to take birth control myself and then offer to knock one them bitches before it’s too late. That is what involuntary will look like. The easy solution is to be a pleasent and kind person to be with. Too much to ask from an entitled princess. Give them the gina tingle until they won’t oppose a repeal of the 19th amendment. (laws of misandry) With out the laws of misandry beta males can confidently live as free men as written in the constitution and by default the beta man has game. You may need to think about that one.

  81. Z. says:

    “They are busily finding themselves, travelling, accruing college debts for degrees in media and hr.

    Hypergamy warps a womans self estimate of dating value. The average woman in her twenties can easily get sex. The averge man must work hard. But a man without a partner is viewed with suspicion; there must be something wrong with him.

    Hypergamy means women find a proportion of men attractive.”

    So then our Michael here should be cat nip to women even in their 20s. Peak SMV (30s). Successful lawyer. Owner of prime beach front property in LA no less! That satisfies hypergamy.

    Something doesn’t sit right with his story.

  82. Johnycomelately says:

    Just to clarify ‘marriage squeeze’ as it seems to be a credible topic that is little discussed.

    When fertility rates drop, say from 1970 to 75, there will be more men born in 1970 than women born in 1975. As men’s preferences are for younger brides ( I think the average is 3 years) there will be more men competing for 1975 women than are available.

    But when fertility rates stabilize or remain similar over an extended period the sex ratios by different age cohort remain at parity.

    First gen Mexican births distort US census figures but when you isolate white non Hispanic rates the growth rate is reasonably stable compared to previous periods, particularly pre and post baby boomer figures.

    So late gen X and early gen Y women don’t have a surplus of men competing for their attention compared to the earlier period.

  83. 8oxer says:

    It’s so funny how many of the same type show up here, all picking one letter initials. “T”, “J”, “Z”, etc.

    Something doesn’t sit right with his story.

    His story makes perfect sense.

    Again, as he’s explained exhaustively, he’s not looking to “satisfy hypergamy” by being my wing at the club on saturday nights. He’s looking for a decent woman, fit for marriage. He has standards.

    This is not difficult for anyone with more than two spare neurons to understand, unless they’re willfully obtuse or purposely unpleasant.

    Still awaiting your apology for calling him unattractive, by the way.

    Regards, Boxer

  84. freebird says:

    Ok SD,keep yelping MAN UP MAN UP.

    That has been working real well so far.

    I will write a post:
    “The woman who did the very Least She Could.”

  85. an observer says:

    willfully obtuse or purposely unpleasant…

    Probably a bit of both.

    Raw hypergamy doesnt care about beach front houses. Or career success. Just tingles.

    Only thing off here is the stench of trolling.

  86. freebird says:

    My comments on SD’s site appear for about one refresh rate,she must subscribe to some automated misandry machine filter.

    Only Strong (complainers) empowered woxan’s need apply.

  87. freebird says:

    Obviously the beach house IS an incentive or there would have been NO comment.

    The man “finally has something to offer a woxan.”

    She could liberate
    (re-purpose) that beach house in short order.

    (Steal)

    And you would be complicit with your blindness.

  88. Z. says:

    Boxer, I didn’t “call” him unattractive. I asked if it was a possibility (and it could be, we haven’t seen the guy) because his story doesn’t add up. Somethings amiss. It could be looks, could be behavior, could be something else, but when a successful California lawyer with a beach house crosses 30 without at least one decent woman trying to snatch him up before anyone else does, well, something’s amiss.

  89. Ok SD,keep yelping MAN UP MAN UP.

    That is considered a “man up” message?

    …Really?

  90. Freebird, I have never seen a comment on my site from your moniker. If you are the most recent Anon from Colorado, then your comment is there.

  91. freebird says:

    The thing is,and I will be very honest with you,dear readers:

    I want a beach house myself,very badly.

    But I lack the requisite vagina and legal standing to take one legally,and I’m having serious trouble earning enough to buy my own.

    Readers: help me with my situation.

    Please: No suggestions of gay prostitution.

  92. freebird says:

    @SD, My IP says Grand Rapids Michigan.

    The filter is automated somehow.

    I have given up,and it is just as well,I d not share the same viewpoints and all of my comments were rebuttals of srt,although nicely worded,unlike my response here which are tougher,because Dalrock knows fire and steel need each other to make parts.

  93. freebird says:

    To add: it’s freebird with no capitols.
    I have no ego,it takes pride to own one of those.

    My pride has been removed by the State and Society.

    I now hide what I hold dear,as best I can.

    They cannot tax,fasten upon,seize,imprison,cajole,manipulate,weedle,or destroy what they do not see.

    (they) being the matriarchal Police State enforcers.

    (The ones women call when a man falls away from obeying [her] orders)

  94. I’ve got nothing going to the spam file either. I have no filters on my blog so I don’t have a clue what could be happening to your comments. If you’d like, email me and I’ll post what you’ve got to say.
    I am curious, however, how you could possibly be a reader of my blog and make such a statement regarding misandry.

  95. freebird says:

    The very definition of ‘alpha’ precludes there being more than one present in any given situation.

    I AM alpha and omega of myself,just as God intended.

    Not your run of the mill arrogant show-pony.

    The Product is not worth the effort nor cost.

    Please stop soliciting my effort and funding,woxans.

    Please stop soliciting my attention.

    The game is rigged!

    The emperor wears no clothes!

    Say it loudly!

  96. 8oxer says:

    Dear Z:

    You’re right, Boxer. That was terribly rude to allude to a man I’ve never met as ugly, a liar, etc., just because he doesn’t want to marry one of the disgusting skank ho fatties and amoral single mom sluts which are a dime per dozen, in every town and city, of any size, in North America. I agree that men should only marry women who have proven, through their actions, that they can handle the commitment of marriage by a proven track record of chastity and good taste. Anything else is a fool’s bargain. Moreover, I admire the OP for his own self-mastery, in saving himself for a woman with similar values. After all, it’d be very easy to be a man like yourself, who just plays the game and never commits to anyone. I’d also like to testify that Boxer is the coolest, smartest, and best looking person who comments on the Dalrock blog. My hamster tells me so.

    Thanks, Z. Glad we agree on things. Have a good night.

    Regards, Boxer

  97. It’s interesting to point out that what you are seeing is a man that wants a trait to be attractive to women and finding out it doesn’t work that way. It’s sort of similar to feminists wanting a snarky personality to mean something. He wants being a successful lawyer to mean something to young women but it simply doesn’t mean much by it’s self. It’s much more important to have social presence and looks than having a good job.

    We live in a bastardised society, no point in getting married in a bastardised society. Your points are moot. The reality is that there are few women who are marriage material. The few that are, require that you support and honour their chastity. Those that do not, are not worth marrying. If you can’t find one of the few, don’t get married. Don’t feed the bastardisation any further…

  98. Höllenhund says:

    Re: Cail

    „I suppose what changed is that society devalued the skills a girl used to work at — femininity, poise, cooking — which mostly left the ones she didn’t really have to work at: sex and availability.”
    Yes, they were devalued in the sense that women no longer have to develop them in order to extract resources from betas. That’s why they’re disappearing.

  99. an observer says:

    You are either doing something wrong or you look very physically unattractive.

    our Michael here should be cat nip to women even in their 20s. Peak SMV (30s). Successful lawyer. Owner of prime beach front property in LA no less! That satisfies hypergamy.

    Very obviously something is wrong with him. Of course…

    And women wonder why there are no good men left.

  100. Höllenhund says:

    Re: imnobody

    „SW is selling their own experience to young women: she managed to have it all: having hookups, serial relationship and marrying a higher beta with kids and the white picket fence.”

    I’ve stated this before but it bears repeating: SW and her readers are annoyed that men are no longer behaving as they did in 1983. Churchians are annoyed that men are no longer behaving as they did in 1963. And the handful of traditionalists who still exist are annoyed that men are no longer behaving as they did in 1913. That’s the only difference between them. Their professed religiosity or non-religiosity is just a farce. Their underlying mentality is the same.

  101. Höllenhund says:

    Re: They Call Me Tom

    “I can say as a male, that I don’t get much out of my job. Because of that, I find it a shame that so many women expect to find fulfillment from their job”

    Apex fallacy. Women envy the top men who actually do find fulfillment in their jobs. When they enter the workforce, they expect the same experience.

  102. Jack says:

    55 year old feminist Elsa Walsh appears to be married to 70-year-old Bob Woodward.
    – Woodward’s Wikipedia page.

    [D: Good catch.]

  103. Höllenhund says:

    The funny thing about this issue is that apparently women are taking their relatively new-found economic independence and spinning it to validate their victim status. Instead of saying “thankfully we are no longer obligated to marry boring beta chumps” they’re complaining that men are using female economic independence as an excuse to abandon the provider role, so women are *forced* to provide from themselves. Short story: women can now have jobs; it’s men’s fault.

  104. mackPUA says:

    Mark Minter knocks it out of the park …

    “Men literally have to be insane to marry. And if they are not, then they won’t.

    And it is almost impossible for men that have “options” to achieve that level of madness with a 30something woman, especially late 30something woman.”

    Women, especially christian women, will NEVER give a crap about mens needs or rights …. ESPECIALLY when it comes to marriage

  105. mackPUA says:

    @Orion

    “If men do not react to visual stimuli, how come that porn is such a big industry?”

    Put up a picture of a hot 30 year old & a hot 20 year old

    Men will always go for the the 20 yr old

    Feminists use visual stimuli BS to paint men as shag anything lamp posts

    Visual stimuli is just the first stage of a mans highly complex process of attraction … even more complex then a womans

    THAT is what the feminists dont want you to know … men are far more biologically more complex & intelligent then women … most feminists dont want you to know that basic concept

  106. mackPUA says:

    The problem with most women biologically & a major problem for society, is womens lack of variety in men

    It’s this lack of variety, which causes most women to discard over 80% of men & divorce 70% of their marriage’s

    Womens lack of sophistication & their simplistic caveman approach to fitness, discards & throws away huge proportions of men

    THIS is what feminists DONT want you to know

    Which is WHY they call men as visual stimuli, shag anything lamp posts …

    Its all about shifting away the blame away from womens ridiculously simplistic & poor lack of variety in men

    IE., Men dont go for blondes … blondes only go for men highly visible in a social circle, giving the impression of most men going for blondes

    What most women dont want you to know, are the hundreds of men women discard getting to that highly visible socially aloof asshole

    The divorce rate, is basically a vocalisation of the hundreds & thousands of men left to rot by society

    Womens lack of variety is a huge danger to society

  107. freebird says:

    From the book
    “Deadly Convictions”
    By Philip Luber
    Page 153

    “When asked if he would consent to be interviewed,he stated:
    ‘The incitement of the resilient as the side of response has long been realized as the contradiction of the reality,related to the cimchinual of captivity.
    The allowance is mobile.The exposition of idealisms and the revelation of wholesomeness of the validity,I’d be most cooperative.’
    When I asked him how long he had been at Littleton State Hospital,he replied:
    ‘Since the invasion of trenology.’

    He described the circumstances of his admission thusly:
    ‘Being entwoned,trabonded,engaged,and woven of the movements against reality.
    That’s like going to dams and sandies in one ballestrian response.
    I hope they get the shrong back and keep it in the well a long time.’

    According to the staff on his ward,in recent weeks he has suffered from a notable exacerbation of his religious delusions,paranoid fears,and auditory hallucinations that revolve around his loud conversations with God and the devil.

    A complete set of medical tests have been completed.
    Our diagnosis is patellar bursitis,most likely caused by incessant praying on his knees.”

  108. Opus says:

    Lazlo has copied out one of the OKCupid profiles, and I love reading them, as in my sadistic way I get this wonderful feeling of Schadenfreude. They of course are the unlucky ones; the fugly ones; the ones with the unrealistic aspirations or grating personalitites. How awful it must be to get to the age of late thirties or beyond, to have to write your inspiring resumee on OKC and yet know that if you were that fabulous (or ten years younger) you would never go anywhere near the place. It is the Bargain Basement store of love – and these girls are competing against (on other sites) hotter, younger, slimmer Russians and Uzbekhs or if you have Asian Fever, Ladyboys and Ladygirls. I click on the pictures, and observe that the other photos bear no resemblance to the woman whose photo first greets you.

    Would Di Matteo be offering me an interview for a half back position with Chelsea if I turned up now with a vast array of demands and some excuse about having been pursuing my play-boy ways up until this point but now I really wanted to settle down in the Premier League. The example may seem extreme but is it really? If that was what I wanted then why did I wait so long. At the very least it would suggest that I have little sense, and what sense can one ascribe to a woman who thinks that marriage is oppression but working 24/7 for an uncaring employer isn’t. Why should any man under Marraige 2.0 regime assume that a forty-something woman who has had more dick than is good for her, and who probably cannot cook, has no idea what darning or needle-work are and regards any form of domestic-cleaning as beneath her be the sort of woman one would want to become financially and in every other way committed to for the term of one’s natural life. One late child is not a family but a trophy.

    Apparently, in Britain, whereas previously 69% of women had married (in 2000) by the age of 30 that figure is now 53%. As 84% of women marry by the age of forty, it seems pretty implausible that some 31% of women now aged 30 will marry by the age of forty. Those figures may hide cohabitation, but (in my observation) whatever they may say, women do regard ‘being legal’ as more than just a piece of paper writing – and so do their girlfriends. They trade off respectability for (partial) freedom and (lessening) options. The charts (previously linked by Dalrock) show that in Italy Greece Hungary and (was it?) France there has been a massive decline in childbirth – not in the years after the age of thirty – for that seems reasonably constant, but in the years before thirty. In other words it seems that catching up in the thirties is not going to happen. Nature just does not do increased late births. Perhaps males just aren’t interested.

    I was interested in Dalrock suggesting that cultural inertia had helped people like Walsh. I was reminded of a woman who in the 1960s following an early marriage and Divorce had remarried at thirty-six and had three children. Just in time, though her seeming fickleness (the first marriage) had caused concern for her to-be husband’s relatives. Her only daughter, (who I know, hence my interest) she of the corporate cubicle, remains at nearly forty six, single and without a live birth to her name. She is empowered – may she enjoy the daily commute! And so a line dies out.

  109. Miserman says:

    Even a man’s trust in the providence of God is more rational and orderly than a woman’s blind faith that love will “just happen.” May the Force be with you gals.

  110. robinbreak says:

    Hi Dalrock,
    sorry for the double post (as I already posted this in a dead blog entry)…
    I come from the most Christian country in the world: Italy.
    But let me tell you, the degradation in this feminist world goes very far, and things are depleting very fast.

    My university years, lady-wise, were ridiculous.
    I was ready to give everything to a beautiful brunette girl: the good life, the children, the house in the countryside, the dogs, etc.
    Only to see her sleeping around with total losers and “Pump-and-Dump” style Alphas.
    I never even kissed her, even if I tried to kiss her several times, only to get crushed and rejected every single time.
    The story repeated again and again, always the same.

    Studying Engineering, I was a very Beta guy, because that is what my parents taught me.
    “Be a provider, work hard, have a solid job, and the good family will come.”
    Sadly, none of this apply to the western culture anymore, not even in the most conservative countries.

    I had the “luck” to know a 22yo incredibly beautiful Canadian girl in Italy, and she was virgin.
    We hit it off and tried to make the relationship work long distance for two years, then I moved to Canada to be with her.
    She started going to Law School, and step by step I could see her behavior clearly changing to the worst.
    Her college friends were encouraging her to “pursue her feelings towards other guys”, and “have fun”, because it was unreal to them that, at mid-20, she only had sex with one person.
    At some point she told me “I would like us to be a free couple”. I didn’t know how to take that, so I just said yes, thinking it was just a test and she would never act on it.
    Within 6 months I was in Canada, and few days after her “free couple” speech, I received the following phone call from her (and I quote): “Guess what happened yesterday night? I had sex with that other guy!” – like she was proud of the achievement!
    Of course the guy was a total loser, an addicted gambler that approached her with the words “I guess you’ve never been fucked really hard before”… and then he proceeded to fuck her in one of the casino rooms.

    I was devastated, but the Beta in me would have still married that girl.
    I didn’t even break up with her. I tried to make things works. Then of course I got dumped because she wasn’t happy with me and I was “oppressing her”.
    The environment of College/University destroys the capability of a woman to have a healthy relationship. She’ll never be the same. So much for the myth that nowadays College enriches life.

    So I kept going with my job, harder and harder.
    Then I discovered Game, and start to apply it, little by little.

    I scored a 30yo HB9. She has the most wonderful ass in the world. Perfect body everybody drools over. She is the type of girl I was able to hook up with only in my wildest fantasies.
    She is also the kind of girl that likes to “impose” herself in the relationship, only to get annoyed later on, because of that. The day we first kissed, she told me “I don’t usually date guys like you” (this is because I’m not 6’2”+ and super-muscular, but only 5’10” and average looking). But, you know, her biological clock is ticking, and she is starting to try to “settle down” with guys below her ideal Alpha Stud.
    We were together for four months, then I got dumped because “I’m not happy”, “It’s not working out”, “A relationship should come easily, I don’t have to work to maintain one”.
    Now she’s with a divorced dad of two, a guy that owns a wealthy company in the city.
    She’s giving me the “It’s like in the movies!” speech to describe her brand new relationship.
    I know for a fact she’s not going to put up with the “two kids and an ex wife” situation in the long run, she’s just not the type. And I pity the guy if she manages to tie the knot on him, he’ll be divorce-raped for the second time, guaranteed.
    She’s the kind of girl with unrealistic hypergamy dreams, she is not able to be happy for a long period of time, no matter what.

    So, 10 days ago I discovered the Menoshpere.
    And I understood what kind of huge mistake I would have made if I married one of those girls.

    I am still in Canada as we speak.
    I am 33 years old, I have a 6-figure salary job, a company car and I live in a company house.
    I own two Real Estate property – one worth $400k and the other $300k, both rented to perfect long term tenants.
    I have 100kg of silver and 1.5kg of gold in coins and bars, in a safe back in Italy.
    I have $100k worth of stock, and a 1/3 partnership in a $600k solar panel investment facility.
    I workout 3-4 times a week, I run one/two Marathons a year, and I’m trying to get in shape for the 2015 Ironman in Japan (4km swim + 180km bike + 42km run).
    I will shortly start my own Industrial Process Automation company, in partnership with my best friend that just moved in Canada.

    And, sorry ladies, I’m not interested in commitment anymore. You had your chance with me, when you were young and attractive, but I guess back then you were too busy sleeping around and swallowing copious amounts of loser’s cum.
    Now go fuck yourselves.

    I’m not even the classic “show off” guy. I don’t drive a luxury car. My house is modest. I don’t like to squander money around and display wealth.
    I have a hidden “million dollar jackpot” for the lucky girl that might marry me.

    Some friend of mine told me “Why don’t you just quit your job and enjoy your money?”. But, unlike them, I love my job.
    Anybody else in my situation would drive a BMW M3, a Mercedes SLK, or an AUDI S8.
    But I don’t want to squander $100k of my hard earned money to buy a car, for a show off in order to fuck sluts. If I will ever feel the need to have sex with someone I will call a professional escort.
    At least you pay for what you get, as simple as that.
    Or I’ll use the little Game I have to pump-and-dump average looking girls.

    Deep inside I am still an average Beta guy.
    Ok, I am in a good physical shape, and I have money (which I don’t like to throw around, so for a girl is almost a turn-off!), but sometimes I still find myself waiting for some girl’s text, hoping she will like me, sending that “too long” email, looking needy/desperate, putting her on a pedestal.
    Still working on that to become more confident, more Alpha-like, tightening my Game.

    My parents got married and stayed married for their whole life. They had their up and down, and I am sure most of the “down” would have been fertile ground for divorce for our generation. But they stuck together.
    The truth is I really wanted to get married too, and give them grandchildren and grand-grandchildren.

    But sadly, at this point I have EVERYTHING TO LOSE, and NOTHING TO GAIN if I get married, above all in Canada.
    The risk is way too high. Thank God I dodged the bullet.

    My plan is to keep going my own way. If by the time I am 36-40 I’ll feel the need to have kids, I will go for a 6 months sabbatical in Asia and get a wife. A hot 18/20yo fertile virgin wife, and I will make her happy, and I will take care of her and our children the very best I can.

    And I will speak with my lawyer, in regards of what to do in order to not get divorce-raped by her.
    That is absolutely NOT going to happen.
    NO. MATTER. WHAT.

    Thanks to everybody for contributing to this realization.

    The Red Pill has been swollen :-)

  111. freebird says:

    I should print a possible retraction.

    The site I was having problems with was “Shining pearls of something.”

    If that is not Sarah’s site I have impugned her needlessly and her pune is just fine.

    These fem-written sites tend to blur into a homogenized unit in my mind.

    In any event, the excitement was generated and that is all that matters?

  112. SlargTarg says:

    @Michael

    I think your best bet at this point is to figure a way to mobilize your income and expatriate to find a wife.

    I don’t know anything about your business so it may not possible to change locations like that. You might need to start over with a new venture that can be exported. If you can’t mobilize your current business, then that is going to be a huge mental stumbling block for you to overcome.

    Most people in your situation are going to fall into the trap of being unwilling to take the necessary risks to get what you really want and instead opt to play it safe to conserve what you already have.

  113. mackPUA says:

    @Robinbreak

    You dont have to get married to have kids

    Just get a surrogacy, spend all the money on your kids instead of a woman sucking your bank balance dry, just for the privilege of giving birth …

  114. freebird says:

    It is true,Sd’s blog is not the blog that is blocking me.

    I could be tough about it and say,”just another (insert greek letter) female blog.

    But I would not label people in such a manner.

    Yes,it is true, I have been mistaken and easily mis-lead myself.

    I just cannot bring myself to a heartfelt apology,for reasons not known well enough to myself to put into language.

    However: I shall be on the alert in the future for my own peace of mind as to veracity.

    The condition is
    difficult,being entwoned,trabonded,engaged,and woven of the movements against reality.

  115. greyghost says:

    Robinbreak
    You are the new male role model. It would please me to no end to see my now 7 year old son learn what you have learned and live a good life for himself and not be used as a chump by the society or the government.

  116. @robin:

    Given it’s Canada, I’m pretty sure “divorce rape” is assumed and there’s little way around it. However, since you have assets spread all over the world, you might be at something of an advantage.

    Good luck and God Bless.

  117. greyghost says:

    +1 mackPUA if you truely like the idea of fatherhood adopt or use a surrogate and have a child that is all yours to raise with out any woman in a position to take your child. Life with out the sword of Damocles is something to envy.

  118. The feminist state has been orchestrated with such intricacies, that it leaves me with no doubt that it’s a conspiracy headed by the father of lies, Satan. His human henchmen are just useful idiots, but still responsible for their rebellion to God. The goal of which is to destroy the authority and natural protective loving power of Fathers, and replace it with a cold unfeeling state authority.

    Step 1: Social security: Destroy the need for Children as a help for their parents in old age. Instead allow feminists to mooch off other peoples kids.

    Step 2: Public Education: Transfer loyalty from the family to the state, as guardians of Children. Deprive mothers of her natural role of dignity, and without children in the home, tell her to be productive and get a career.

    Step 3: Welfare: Replace the Fathers natural dignity as provider with the state.

    Step 4: Bureaucratic Proliferation: Instead of citizens dealing with each other as free people, government steps in and “advocates” as a police state. Citizens don’t initiate legal action against other citizens in the courts when they are actually wronged. Instead the State proactively and magically divines how future wrongs can be prevented through special programs. Citizens see their government as being “for them”. The cycle is complete almost complete.

    Step 5: Cement Ownership of People by the State: Continuing the proud feminist tradition of hyphenated surnames. Children are no longer allowed to take the fathers last name, because this insinuates that they are property of their father. In order to liberate individuals from the oppression of the family, all people are designated by the governmental subunits that they are subjects of. Example: John, District 15, Baltimore, Maryland, USSA, GrandSaviorWorldOrder. Of course this lenghty name is often abriviated, and is tattoed in ultraviolet ink on every citizens forearm as a barcode. Herds of Cattle.

    Patriarchs are THE God ordained protectors of their families against tyrany.

  119. imnobody00 says:

    @Sarah’s daughter

    Can you honestly say you were pursuing a wife at the same time, with the same intensity, the same commitment?

    Of course, he was pursuing a wife! He was working on his career! This is the male way of pursuing a wife.

    Why do you think men slave themselves in jobs? Because they are proud about being a “career man”? No, this is only for women who have read Cosmopolitan a lot. Because they want to buy a lot of crap? This is for women. Because they want to have a McMansion? No, this is for women.

    A man can be happy in a cave if he has affection and sex. Young men study because they want to have a family. They know they will be the primary provider in the family (because women tend to marry up).

    So now, besides pursuing a career, a man has to go to the gym, go to the bars to learn Game and know skanks, etc. And all of this with the same time, intensity and commitment than his career (impossible: a day has only 24 hours). Only to have a wife.

    And what do women have to do to have a husband who is objectively superior to them? Only to have a pussy?

    It’s tiring to have to explain basic things.

  120. I’m a very independent girl [....] On the other hand, I love it when I don’t have to order my own wine.

    At age 35, she’s just starting to realize that it might be nice not to have to make every single freaking decision in her life. Not deeply enough to recognize that “independent” isn’t the self-compliment she thinks it is, of course. But reality is starting to shine through the cracks. Too bad it won’t really settle in until she’s well past child-bearing age.

    I can’t understand a successful man living in a nice house on the beach not being able to wife somebody up. It just doesn’t make sense.

    No one claimed it made sense. But it’s the current reality.

    Does it make sense for a woman to spend her most fertile years pursuing a degree to get a career answering phones and pushing papers around so she can make just enough money to pay rent, a car payment, and a bar bill? Does it make sense for women to think they’ll get married at about 35 after Travelling The World and Finding Themselves, and everything will work out fine? Does it make sense for them to find themselves unhappy spinsters at 45, and then write articles encouraging the next generation of women to do just what they did, only harder?

    None of it makes sense, but when women are living like that, men with beach homes are left wanting. Most of the men here have seen it, or even lived it. A man with a good income and no alpha traits is only attractive to gold-diggers and prostitutes. A nice house and a stable husband is what the young, fertile, attractive women want someday. The ones who would jump at it now are the ones with little left to offer — and they’ll withhold as much of themselves as they can even then, because they’ve lost any ability to trust. Think of that: he could marry a 35-year-old woman with 3 kids, provide her with a beautiful home and an allowance larger than she ever could have made on her own — and she’d still be likely to withhold sex and insist that he let her redecorate his den.

    If Michael wants a good woman (and this is what SD was obviously getting at), he can’t sit on his income and wonder where they are. He has to take the red pill, learn some game, and get out there and attract one with the qualities that attract women. It’s not his fault that he wasn’t raised to understand that, but now that he’s here, he has a chance to learn better and do something about it.

  121. hurting says:

    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/expectations-vs-outcomes/#comment-82430

    Michael,

    I suspect that there are pretty sizable #’s of men like you, perhaps not quite in your income bracket, but not destitute either. You are absolutely correct that women don’t get it that men desire feminine, non-hostile mates and that most of us would walk through a burning building in a gasoline suit to get to Marriage 1.0 again.

    There is a tremendous amount of wasted productivity that could be directed to propagating civilization by forming solid families around men like yourself. Don’t settle.

  122. Joe says:

    @Michael

    I used to believe a prenuptial agreement was wrong but now I’m starting to wonder if it’s a necessary evil..

    Have the courts readily accepted prenups as valid and binding or have the courts now begun to throw out the prenups because they were entered under duress, etc.?

  123. hurting says:

    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/expectations-vs-outcomes/#comment-82498

    This is what I meant by the wasted productivity (the gym, bars, game etc.)

    It is also pefectly describes the way men prepared for marriage for eons – by making themselves good providers.

  124. mackPUA says:

    @imnobody00

    “So now, besides pursuing a career, a man has to go to the gym, go to the bars to learn Game and know skanks, etc. And all of this with the same time, intensity and commitment than his career (impossible: a day has only 24 hours). Only to have a wife.”

    Women call it progress … men call it de-volution, all the time men should be building & creating a civilisation is spent chasing skanks & whores … just to find the right one

    Its the ultimate luxury of the first world, TO FIND THE ONE … except men dont realise THE ONE is a generalisation of their biology

    Most men can find THE ONE, a hot submissive piece of ass … ask any ex-pat overseas, ex-pat countries ARE SWIMMING WITH THE ONE …

    Gsme is a skill of masculinity & dominance … you will have to learn & master your masculinity & dominance anyway, especially in business & outside a relationship …

    Just be glad you now have huge communities & a huge wealth of knowledge to master your masculinity & be dominant & aloof

    Game isnt just for skanks & whores, it will pay in the millions in your work & finances

    Life will always require men to be on top of their game … game just allows you take women out of that equation …

    Game allows you to see women as disposable, & unnecessary as it refocuses a man to concentrate on power & wealth

    A woman will never give you power & wealth, game allows you to see women as byproducts of YOUR pursuit of power & wealth

    The more you pursue power, wealth & wisdom, & attain them, the more the world will honour & revere you … including the women

    Game is the wisdom of men & masculinity, for men … take what is yours, & make the women pay for their betrayal & violence

  125. orion says:

    @mackPUA

    I think you seriously underestimate the complexity of women.

    Though I still would like to know how anyone could possibly quantify “10 times better at reasing body language” they are much, much better than men at that.

    Not only that, they also take into account social status, relationships within groups and whatnot and then it is all condensed into “feelings”, the tingle if you will.

    Further, that little gyro of an evaluation system always keeps spinning, so that at the first sign of changed circumstances, like a loss in status, she un-tingles.

    While men can think about their thoughts, as can women, it is kind of hard to meta- feel, for men and women alike, so they dont see it and it order not for them to go insane they even have an inbuilt system that is able to convince them that they always act perfectly rational, always have good, solid reasons for what they are doing, never are to blame, the notorious Rationalization Hamster. *

    I would call that complex.

    * of course, that arguably lowers their sanity a little bit in and of itself.

  126. Bluedog says:

    “Divorce rape” is a term because something is taken … specifically **taken** from a man that cannot be returned. That is what is at stake in marriage. Depth of lives where so much is at stake that if it is taken, nothing can put it back.

    So, re: MackPUA, re: Mark Minter, “‘Men literally have to be insane to marry. And if they are not, then they won’t.
    And it is almost impossible for men that have ‘options’ to achieve that level of madness with a 30something woman, especially late 30something woman.’” …

    …well, evolution has done its job. It is this way for good reason. For a man to make a commitment of the kind of thing in marriage that a woman can take from him and walk away from him in divorce, it is exquisite reason for him to expect, in his visceral core, that she be giving something herself that she, similarly, cannot get back. How much is a woman giving away when she trades out a feral young adulthood for marriage? As much as is taken from a man when he is on the receiving end of a frivolous divorce. Hard asset trade. Irreplaceable youth for irreplaceable life.

    On offer now by way of “hard assets” to the man in his 30s or 40s, not yet married or once already divorced?

    Not. Precious. Much.

    And it would be fine to end there but the trick is this: love is either a feeling with no real currency, or it is an iron commitment made with agency – with the forebrain.

    You want love? GREAT!

    You had better have the hard assets to show you mean it though.

  127. @Joe:

    It depends on jurisdiction. And judge. And how good your lawyer was. And a bit of pre-planning.

    Before no-fault divorce, a pre-nup was pretty much a sign it wasn’t going to work, but if there was a good chunk of money involved, then it always made sense. (Those with money to get lawyers could always get a fault-based divorce) Now, no, a pre-nup should be viewed as a *basic* necessity for a Christian. Unless there is enough money involved (so UMC or higher), getting passed a well-done pre-nup is still going to be trouble.

    But the point is to limit the wife’s willingness to go towards a Divorce. Making the bar higher keeps the thoughts out of her mind. But, if she does decide to blow it all up, she pays dearly for it and you keep the kids.

    @Michael:

    Hey, good to see you back around. And you’re improving! That’s good. It seems you’ve worked through much of the issues due to being sold on the terribly incorrect view of the “system”, as it were. Glad you’ve worked through most of that.

    But, like I think I said the last time we interacted, you’re in LA. That’s probably most of your problem. And you have money. Those combined might be the biggest of the issues. Add in your work hours and it’s hard to even conceive of a place to properly search.

    I guess the response is: how do you like Asian women? That’s probably about your best local option. Maybe an ultra-religious family? Or consider thinking about practicing in a different State.

    I definitely can feel for you plight. You’ve done “everything” right and you end up not really having one thing you wanted. Even when you thought you were planning properly. So, keep on it, save as much money as you can and consider possibilities when they present themselves.

  128. greyghost says:

    It is even more to it than the money provisions. It is the character and stability. The peace and order a “boring” beta male provides for a family and community. Those qualities mean more than just the material wealth. A strong sane society will see that man as sexy.
    So now we are to the point where women will see a man such as Micheal as something wrong with him because he has no game. A women that needs game is an unworthy wife. The pussy is good,she is pleasant due to game induced gina tingle. Nothing to do with pleasantness being a normal part of her being. (never has been, female pleasantness has to be a social structure of society as such that pleasantness is part of the natural selfish best interest) Still not a wife not in a society that doesn’t value beta men. It is in the comments of the women here. Micke is better off seeing women as they are as just pussy and a uterus to grow his child. A wife is something this generation of men will never know.

  129. deti says:

    Agree with Furious Ferret. Most men just aren’t very attractive. They don’t look attractive or act/behave attractive. It used to be 50 or 60 years ago that a lawyer with beachfront property would have no trouble attracting a woman. Those days are over. He has to have something else — good looks, great personality, Game.

    SD is right too: when you’re in your 20s and working on getting a law degree and you’re young and trying to establish a practice, you don’t have time to work on game or make yourself attractive as a husband. It used to be that young women were trained (or their dads helped them) to find men with potential, and they married early to those men. Women don’t do that anymore for a number of reasons; They want to date and have sex with who they want. Women have their own money and jobs and places and took control over mate selection from fathers and authority figures. The churches as institutions ceded control to individual women in the interest of “progress” and “compassion” and “fairness”. Divorce laws make it much, much easier for women to leave a marriage in which her only reason for wanting to end the marriage is “unhappiness” or “we’ve grown apart”. Because “irreconcilable differences/irretrievable breakdown” is really just lawyerspeak for “I don’t wanna be married anymore to him/her”.

    Now, you’re unattractive and don’t get noticed because at 21 there’s not all that much that distinguishes you. You have no money, no job and no place of your own. Worse, you have no confidence because no one taught you how to “stride through the world without apology or excuse” because you have inherent worth as a man. You have no dominance or dominant personality because you have no authority over anything. You can’t make any decisions on your own at work; you have to ask for permission to wipe your own ass.

    Your own church is against you: You’re told constantly you need to be kinder, gentler, more in touch with your feelings and emotions. You’re told nothing about what really attracts women. You’re browbeaten every other Sunday about how wonderful and caring women are and how boorish, crude and terrible you and your dad are. Then you’re told you’re going to hell if you don’t marry a nice girl from your church to avoid being “unequally yoked”. Then you’re told to “man up and marry the slut!”

    Michael, your job and beach house mean nothing to women unless they’re gold diggers or washed up sluts. Get game. I can’t recommend marriage unless you find a woman worth marrying AND you want children.

  130. Opus says:

    At this point I think it worth reminding ourselves of something that (Francis) Chancellor Bacon wrote (and more than once, although I am not sure whether or not it was original to him):

    ‘Nature is overcome only by obeying her’.

  131. adiaforon says:

    @Michael

    That’s what these career women do not understand! They adopt attractive male attributes (i.e. confidence, independence, income, IQ) then project them at men as though we should get turned on! They couldn’t be more wrong.

    I forget which blog I read it on, but the author made the following quip (paraphrasing) in reference to your comment:

    “The reason why there are no more good men is because women became the men they were looking for.”

    When I read that the one morning, I nearly spit out my coffee because I was laughing so hard. :)

  132. adiaforon says:

    @greyghost

    Micke is better off seeing women as they are as just pussy and a uterus to grow his child. A wife is something this generation of men will never know.

    Can’t say that I disagree.

    I posed this question once to a guy in the form of being “reductionistic.” That is, how do you respond to the old joke.

    Q: What is woman?
    A: Just life support for a pussy.

    In today’s day and age, this isn’t a bad formula, so to speak, to follow. Other than what’s between her legs, what’s the justification for investing anything more into her if she doesn’t have anything to invest in, or if she especially chooses not to invest in you emotionally?

  133. mackPUA says:

    @Orion

    ““10 times better at reasing body language” they are much, much better than men at that.

    Not only that, they also take into account social status, relationships within groups and whatnot and then it is all condensed into “feelings”, the tingle if you will. ”

    10x better at reading body language … better at social skills … & still nowhere near as complex as men …

    FYI women suck at social skills … which is why women have a 70% illegitimacy rate & rising

    Women also suck at initiating relationships, which is why they get pumped & dumped by extro-vert alpha’s, repeatedly … which i find hilarious lmao

    Womens body reading language, only helps them reject beta’s & stable men, its mildly useful in stressful times, but negated by their running around like headcases & blubbering in times of stress

    It takes alot more complexity to build a civilisation, science & art

    It takes alot more complexity, to build a man, then it does a woman …

    REMEMBER it takes more resources biologically to create a boy, then it does a girl …

    Whats more complex, social bullshittery of women, or building a civilisation & a society to support the complexity of civilisation itself? …

  134. mackPUA says:

    @Opus

    “‘Nature is overcome only by obeying her’.”

    Man overcomes nature, by screwing her … lmao

    I’ll leave the tree hugging to women & the manginas …

  135. Norm says:

    Robinbreak: Great that you are doing well, especially in Canada. Canada screws men over in divorce, so don’t get married there. As for your silver and gold, you should bring it over to Canada, as the European banks and Italy are on shaky ground and may(and probably will) consider your assets as an “investment” in the bank.

    BTW-I remember Germaine Greer saying she wished she had a child. If she did get pregnant she would of probably got an abortion and brag about it, or ignore her child if she did have one.

  136. James says:

    @donalgraeme
    Michael’s problem, and the problem of many of the commentators here and at other sites like Sunshinemary’s, is not finding a woman who will marry them. The problem is finding a woman worth marrying who actually wants to marry them. There are very few marriageable women out there in the US right now, and Michael, I and others can attest to this.

    Likewise, many women’s problem is finding a man worth marrying who actually wants to marry them.

    How can this be? The reason is that the opposite sex does not calculate our “worth” in the same way that we do.

    The OKcupid profile listed above by Lazlo is a good example of this. When women’s dating profiles describe the man they are looking for, nearly always the extended essay can be contracted to just five words: “I want an alpha male”. Her self-description is that she is independent, successful and a good catch; but men see a woman who is pushy, demanding, well-ploughed, and wants a man who will make her friends envious.

    Likewise, a man who thinks he is a “good catch” may be a high earner, successful in his career, considerate and kind to his family and friends, and what we used to call “good husband material”; but if women find him boring and unattractive, he is sunk.

    @Michael
    If you are in your 30s you still have time.

    There used to be a saying “lonely men go to bars, lonely women stay at home; they seldom meet.” In the present day, I’d say something slightly different: the women who regularly go to bars and internet dating sites are mostly not wife material: you need to meet the ones who don’t do this. How? Perhaps join a class in Italian cookery, or a group that does voluntary work.

    Pay a (female) life coach to advise you on your clothes, appearance, conversation etc.

    And if you do get married, do get a solid prenup. You might need to move to a different state. A prenup is not unromantic, or against the spirit of marriage: it will screen out the gold-diggers and any woman who plans to divorce you when she has completed “her” family.

  137. Dear Michael,

    I’m with you. :)

    You write, “I used to (and still do, to an extent) believe prenuptial agreements went against the entire core idea of marriage. ”

    Yes, and so does women being taught about and encouraged to engage n buttehxtxt buttehxt buttehxttextt in elementary school also go against the traditional forms of marriage lzlozozoz

    http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/parents-furious-after-school-teaches-5th-graders-about-oral-anal-sex.html

    “Fifth-graders at Onalaska Elementary School were supposed to get a lesson about HIV-AIDS, but the class discussion turned graphic when a child asked about other forms of sexual activity. The principal, who happened to be teaching the class, then told the children about oral and anal sex.
    “I’m one pissed off cowboy,” parent James Gilliand told Fox News Radio. “I didn’t appreciate them teaching my daughter – who is innocent of that – at all.”
    Gilliland and his wife, Kadra, were among the moms and dads in Onalaska, about 73 miles south of Tacoma, demanding answers from their local school system – and so far – they are still waiting.
    “I was just shocked because I trusted my little country school,” Kadra Gilliland told Fox News Radio. “I didn’t think they were going to talk about such things. I trusted by school – that’s the bottom line and they crossed the line.”
    School officials did not return calls seeking comment.
    However, Superintendent Scott Fenter defended the principal’s action to local media and said that the lesson did not go too far.
    “I think the principal handled it appropriately at the time; she only gave factual information, no demonstrations,” Fenter told NWCN.com. “Because in sixth grade they start becoming sexually aware and you’ve got to teach them ahead of time.””

    http://www.wnd.com/2010/07/180741/

    “In fact, this fall public schools in Helena, Mont., plan to equip fifth graders with enough sexual “knowledge” to be able to teach their parents a few things they probably didn’t know about sexual intercourse. According to the Health Enhancement K-12 Critical Competencies Draft, fifth graders should be taught to “understand that sexual intercourse includes but is not limited to vaginal, oral or anal penetration.” And in grade 6 they plan to discuss various objects that can be used during intercourse.
    Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2010/07/180741/#wc86bWzrFdJUtIoQ.99

    Basically Michael, the classical form of marriage presented in the Bible to a wife who does not fornicate/buttehxte and sho has not been pre-buttcocked and sdesouled multiple times simply does not exist anymore, except in extremely rare occasions. :)

    Were I you, I would take my legal talents and work less for fait dolalrz dollarz which can only buy you a bernenekfified chcickz and I would work more for God and Christ, who can perhaps lead you to a virginal womenzz one way or another.

    The Lord worketh in mysterious ways. :)

  138. robinbreak says:

    @mackPUA

    “You dont have to get married to have kids

    Just get a surrogacy, spend all the money on your kids instead of a woman sucking your bank balance dry, just for the privilege of giving birth …”

    I doubt I can successfully raise a problem-free child without a mother figure in the family.
    The same way single mother can’t raise a problem-free child without a father figure in the family.

  139. robinbreak says:

    @greyghost

    “Robinbreak
    You are the new male role model. It would please me to no end to see my now 7 year old son learn what you have learned and live a good life for himself and not be used as a chump by the society or the government.”

    I don’t think I am a good model to imitate. My life sucks. I hadn’t had sex in 6 months, most of the women I meet treat me with disrespect right from the beginning. They somehow see something wrong with me. I have little Game, and I easily get upset when the girl I’m dating inevitabily get “bored” and then proceed to suck someone else’s cock within few days of dumping me.

    Except for the ladies, however, I have to admit I am satisfied of my accomplishments.
    But the lack of intimacy with the opposite sex is a big, constant pain in my soul.

  140. robinbreak says:

    @Norm

    “Robinbreak: Great that you are doing well, especially in Canada. Canada screws men over in divorce, so don’t get married there. As for your silver and gold, you should bring it over to Canada, as the European banks and Italy are on shaky ground and may(and probably will) consider your assets as an “investment” in the bank.”

    Of course my gold and silver is not in a Bank.
    That portion of my assets is unknown to anybody (government, family, friends), except for my lawyer. I am not planning to bring it to Canada. That would be a very complex task, and it will increase the chances that some of the forementioned persons would get to know it, which is dangerous.

  141. orion says:

    @mackPUA

    You think I am using the term “komplex” as a form of “better than”.

    That is not what I am doing.

    I am saying that this is a system, and I talk of the mate selecting system ONLY. that has to make sure she gets the best genes and resources during the relatively short time of her peak fertility and that can self adapt to ever changing and uncertain circumstances.

    I am looking at that like I would at the clockwork of a Swiss watch.

    Compared to that at least my programm triggering purely sexual urges is remarkably simple:

    If it looks halfway decent, I definitely would.

  142. Orion says:

    “I can’t find any research to prove she was a virgin. I also can’t find any research to prove that she wasn’t a virgin either. My point is not to make unsubstantiated statements. If you want to critique Alice Walker, go ahead. I do it quite a bit. But evaluate her based on her writings and verbal statements. ”

    First rule of dealing with women. Never believe what they tell you they want. Observe what they actually do.

    Also, no clue who “orion” is. He/she/it is unaware that women are horrible at communication and verbal queue interpretation. I am very aware of how bad they are being married to one, son of one, and brother to another, none of whom would get along as well if I hadn’t cut through their BS dancing around problems.

  143. freebird says:

    It takes a lot more resources to build a man than it does to breed a male.

    I actually had an idea that would help a lot.

    all the homeschoolers band together and use the 1 room schoolhouse again,parents taking turns at teaching and other tasks.

    It would be fare better than the public indoctrination centers,and superior to each set of parents going it alone.

    Other than the breaking of all forms of solidarity,why are there not *any* demographics doing this?

    It is a logical fix to a bad problem.

    If enough *nuclear* parents did this in 2 or 3 generations there would be some sane people in country.

    They would prosper.

    “Be a people set aside” said the Lord God.

    Anyone hearing?

  144. freebird says:

    Movie recommendation:

    “Dandy’s bride” starring Gene Hackman.

    Watch and learn.

  145. greyghost says:

    Except for the ladies, however, I have to admit I am satisfied of my accomplishments.
    But the lack of intimacy with the opposite sex is a big, constant pain in my soul
    Robinsbreak
    Don’t you worry about that thing with the bitches. you have your head on straight. BTW your sex life is more fruitful than most of the sex lives of “happily” married fathers.
    First thing you need to do is in your heart and soul know this one thing “you are a bad mutha fucka” for being who you are. To get where you are with out being stuck with some bitch or paying out CS etc. etc. Look you think your life sucks with out women. Oh man to be able to say that and mean it. Consider yourself lucky and always believe you are a bad mutha fucka and life is good. Don’t see women as nothing more than heterosexual pussy sex.(which is actually all they got) Learn and study game with your head held high proud of who you are with a sense of humour. Google Chateau Heartiste and spend some time on his site and others that understand game. get involved with the conversation too. Never ejaculate inside a women unless you are in her ass, otherwise shoot it on her back (my favorite). Any chick says she is pregnant get a blood test,bcause. you will be a target of cuckold due to you having you act together. When you are ready for a child get a surrogate. meanwhile have fun and say I’m a bad mutha fucka every time you see yourself in a mirror. (reflections in windows too)

  146. greyghost says:

    doubt I can successfully raise a problem-free child without a mother figure in the family.
    The same way single mother can’t raise a problem-free child without a father figure in the family.
    robinbreaking bad mutha fucka
    Don’t believe the hype. I used to think that until I had kids of my own. Women are really not that great of parents. They human like you and you can do better mistakes and all than and baby momma or divorced benefits collector. Based on your statement above you are a better parent than almost any mother. Women have kids to be mothers you see a child and think of the welfare of the child first. You gotta covered don’t forget I’m a bad mutha fucka say it now

  147. Ton says:

    I recently hit the UMC social circles. They don’t appear happy or free people, nor economically stable.

    Strange and foreign people

  148. anonymous says:

    Michael — try overseas. That was my last ditch opt out. I decided that if I hit 40 still single, I was taking my next vacation in Moscow, visiting every Evangelical church in the city.

    As it happened, I got one of the last good Christian American women. (Most US women today are dirt, even the so-called “Christians”.) But Russia was my plan B for sure.

  149. Luke says:

    robinbreak says:
    May 10, 2013 at 11:04 am

    @mackPUA

    “You dont have to get married to have kids

    Just get a surrogacy, spend all the money on your kids instead of a woman sucking your bank balance dry, just for the privilege of giving birth …”

    I doubt I can successfully raise a problem-free child without a mother figure in the family.”

    Actually, white father-only (WRT adults living there) families do practically as well on average as traditional nuclear families, where both bioparents live there, married to each other, are opposite sex, etc., as long as the father isn’t a homosexual.

  150. orion 2 says:

    That was not intended, Orion 2 then?

  151. Luke says:

    Prenups are a waste of time for most (e.g., not wealthy and certain to have no kids together) couples. The most important stuff, which is child custody and child support, the divorce courts completely ignore. Better IMO is not to marry unless you are CERTAIN you want children with a woman. Then, in that case, don’t buy any property that you can’t either hide or are prepared to lose. That means no stocks/bonds/houses/certificates of deposit, no starting a business with significant capital costs (your skills should be the main asset), lease all vehicles that aren’t beaters, hide your savings somewhere that’s NOT in a commercial establishment (safe deposit boxes aren’t safe), etc., etc.

  152. mackPUA says:

    lol @ the orion with a small o …

    Orion with the big o is correct …

    Yea, women designed to utilise their fertility in a short span … is great … if only women actually procreated in that short period of time … women are idiots, they’ll never listen to biology or nature …

    Even the sanity of virginity isnt championed by traditionalists …

    Ironically for all the billions women get, nothing about a woman is championed

    The millions of women chemically castrated, ie the pill as a right for 14 yr old children

    Feminists get billions for poisoning 14 yr old girls reproductive systems

    … & they wonder why autism, dyslexia & still births are the norm

    Millions spent on women justifying, their STD, herpes ridden lifestyle …

    Millions spent on women destroying & aborting infants

    Modern women read like a poorly written nazi fantasy, no rights, mass theft, mass murder, mass bullshit …

    Everything about being a woman gets written out of universities

    It all gets replaced by what & who women should hate … hate becomes the new definition for women

  153. orion 2 says:

    @orion
    I know how terrible they are when they consciously try to implement something.

    I am just fascinated with how streamlined their system is if they do not even try.

    Also, they dont dance around problems, their dance almost insures that they profit from it somehow.

    Sure, you can quote some anectodal evidence that they dont, but on a societal level they most assuredly do.

  154. anonymous says:

    Michael — I just posted this elsewhere for someone else but I felt I should say it to you too:

    Dude…. basic rule… no matter what age you are: Never date a woman over 30

    There are exceptions…. A 32 year old woman who married as a virgin at 22, and was widowed young….. a 34 year old who was seriously injured in an accident at 20 and spent most of her prime marriage years in physical rehab, not carouselling… that sort of thing.

    But these are RARE exceptions. Generally, most over 30 single women have chosen their status, whether they realize it or not. They are bad, bad bets for marriage.

  155. Luke says:

    Sunshinemary says:
    May 9, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    “I have already begun gently instructing my thirteen-year-old daughter that if she hopes to marry, then it is marriage first and everything else a distant second after that. It should be a girl’s number one priority after pleasing the Lord. I just don’t care anymore how politically incorrect that makes me even among other Christians. A husband and children are so much better than some dumb job where people really couldn’t give a rat’s butt about you. There isn’t a career in this world with enough power, money, or glamour that I would be tempted to trade my husband for.”

    This makes you in the top 5% of mothers with daughters, easily. My hat is off to you.
    Please also give your daughter copies of Debi Pearl’s book “Created To Be His Helpmeet”, and print out the graph for her that shows how every sexual partner a woman has, permanently reduces her ability to stay with a husband.

  156. orion 2 says:

    @mackPUA

    What !?!

    Orion is my usual handle, I did not know that it was taken.

    Second. you want all evolved instincts to be functional?

    They have to serve a purpose in todays society?

    I am sorry, I am not concerned with what ought to be, I am concerned with what is.

    Yadayadayada, abortion, divorce, frivorse, STDs, broken homes, it is all so very terrible….

    NO.

    A functioning society is a compromise between what we are and what we aim to be.

    Not being religious myself, I would have not problem with rearranging along those lines.. because it worked, certainly better than this clusterfuck and I cannot offerer anything better.

    But, on a purely mad scientist level, good, bad, left, right, who cares.

    I dont want to know what it means to you, I want to know what it means.

    Preferably from 5 different points of view,.

  157. mackPUA says:

    @Robinbreak

    greyghost & the other posters are right

    Children do just as well with a single father

    As I stated before, a woman only steals the resources you should be spending on your kids

    Why gamble the future of your children with someone you met on the street?

    Which is why surrogacy is a great idea, why spend $200,000 on a wedding, on her clothes, on her ridiculous pointless makeup, handbags etc, when you should be redirecting those resources to your children …

    Basically …

    If a WOMAN ISNT PREPARED to INVEST IN YOUR CHILDREN, why should you invest in her?

    If a woman ISNT WILLING to pay the COSTS for YOUR CHILDREN, why put up with her in the first place?

    Look at the IRRESPONSIBILITY & NEGLECT of a typical mother

    A child comes out her own womb, & she expects YOU to pay for it

    That’s how much women give a crap about their own children …

    No financial planning, no funds saved, no safety net, zero well being for the child in her own womb …

    A womans preferred form of procreation is nuts … she gives birth & a man pays ALL the expenses

    Its the very definition of neglect & irresponsibility

    A woman who expects this sort of arrangement, is nothing more then a parasite, a leech

  158. mackPUA says:

    SSM -”A husband and children are so much better than some dumb job where people really couldn’t give a rat’s butt about you.”

    Im not refuting stayathome moms, i’m stating women have to be more serious about being a wife & a mother , they HAVE to bring finances & wealth to the table, IF they want to be a stayathome mom

    In a first world country, women have the privilege of bringing finances to help with the expenses

    Women have zero excuses to expect a man to slave away for her in cubicles & dead end jobs

    Why dont you just rob the man, like a common criminal …

  159. mackPUA says:

    @orion

    I stated women’s interpretation of their “evolved instincts” has to be functional, at the moment womens interpretation is ridiculously delusional

  160. Novaseeker says:

    Have the courts readily accepted prenups as valid and binding or have the courts now begun to throw out the prenups because they were entered under duress, etc.?

    They always did — that’s not new. Family courts are “courts of equity”, which means that, unlike a “court of law”, they do not enforce a contract just because it is valid if the enforcement of the contract would lead to an “inequitable” result, in the court’s view. Even if there isn’t any real “duress” as a court of law would recognize (even a court of law doesn’t enforce an agreement you sign with a gun to your head, for instance), family law courts will find “duress” to exist in many other circumstances to justify refusing to enforce a pre-nup that would lead to an “inequitable” result. They’re worth doing if you have substantial pre-marital assets, your own business pre-marriage, and so on — not because you’re safe with them, but because they are worth a shot of you have something pre-marriage that is worth spending some money trying to protect. For most folks who don’t have substantial assets prior to marrying they aren’t really useful — the kinds of things that the typical guy is facing in a divorce (losing the house, kids, chilimony and so on) are not going to be respected in a pre-nup by most family courts for reasons of equity (ie., the court wants to decide those things itself).

  161. Novaseeker says:

    ut, like I think I said the last time we interacted, you’re in LA. That’s probably most of your problem. And you have money. Those combined might be the biggest of the issues. Add in your work hours and it’s hard to even conceive of a place to properly search.

    I guess the response is: how do you like Asian women? That’s probably about your best local option. Maybe an ultra-religious family? Or consider thinking about practicing in a different State.

    Unfortunately I’d have to say I agree.

    You’ve done well in building a practice in a tough, competitive market like Los Angeles. But … LA is a very challenging place to try to what you are doing. Anonymous (grey) who posts here has also managed it there, but it was extremely difficult. I think Los Angeles is one of the harder places in the country for this kind of thing, really.

    The prospect of leaving is daunting, certainly. It’s not easy to rebuild a practice in another location that you’ve built locally. It would be very time-consuming in and of itself. But it may be better than staying in LA.

  162. hurting says:

    Question for the attorneys in the crowd regarding pre-nup’s:

    The Catholic Church generally frowns on prenuptial agreements, presumably on the basis of their being an indicator that one or both of the parties does not believe in the permanence of the bond. There can be allowances made for such agreements if they are necessary, and I’m paraphrasing here, ‘to protect an inheritance’.

    Can anyone cite any example of such an agreement thas or would pass muster with the Church?

    Further, in the no-fault divorce system in which we operate, it seems like one could argue that a pre-nup to protect the inheritance of the children of the marriage would be arguably OK?

    Thoughts?

  163. Opus says:

    We have a couple of legal points.

    Firstly Novaseeker says that Family Courts are Courts of Equity. I am sure he is correct for otherwise he would not have said so, but (over here – England) the Courts of Chancery are the Courts of Equity, and Matrimonial Causes are not under the jurisdiction of the Court of Chancery (That’s Jarndyce -v- Jarndyce for all you Dickens enthusiasts) Divorce was under the Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction which is why we present Petitions for Divorce with appropriate Prayers.

    Secondly ‘hurting’ wonders what the Holy Roman Catholic Church thinks of pre-nups. I am not versed in Canon Law but I am surprised that the Church is able to deal with the disposition of Property as the jurisdiction of the State cannot be ousted. I had always previously assumed that all the Church can do is, under its own system is to decide whether a Marriage is voidable, and thus capable of nullifying the Marriage, thus leaving the Parties free to marry again in Church. Please correct me if I have seriously misunderstood the power of the Church (as I would not wish a visit from the Spanish Inquisition).

  164. Novaseeker says:

    but (over here – England) the Courts of Chancery are the Courts of Equity, and Matrimonial Causes are not under the jurisdiction of the Court of Chancery

    Right. Here, we have 50 countries when it comes to family law. In most states family law courts here are courts of equity — there are a few, I think, where they are not.

    I am not versed in Canon Law but I am surprised that the Church is able to deal with the disposition of Property as the jurisdiction of the State cannot be ousted. I had always previously assumed that all the Church can do is, under its own system is to decide whether a Marriage is voidable, and thus capable of nullifying the Marriage, thus leaving the Parties free to marry again in Church.

    I think he was asking whether that kind of arrangement would pass muster by the Church, or would it be used as a grounds for granting an annulment on the basis of defective consent/intent at the time of the marriage. I don’t know the answer — it’s really for a canon lawyer or someone who generally acts as an advocate in annulment tribunal proceedings, really.

  165. Opus says:

    @Novaseeker

    Mea Culpa

  166. Pete says:

    @ Michael
    I still say you need to take a long vacation and visit Eastern Europe buddy.

    I have heard that this agency is supposed to be good, honest and American run – http://www.khersongirls.com/

    Be aware though, that Eastern European girls have seen Sex and the City, and other American trash on the tube, and can be extremely materialistic while being very feminine. – Good luck.

  167. Z. says:

    “According to the Health Enhancement K-12 Critical Competencies Draft, fifth graders should be taught to “understand that sexual intercourse includes but is not limited to vaginal, oral or anal penetration.”

    OK wait. Sexual intercourse is not limited to vaginal, oral or anal? That pretty much covers all aspects of “intercourse” doesn’t it? I mean, what else is there, dare I ask?

  168. Pete says:

    @hurting
    “The Catholic Church generally frowns on prenuptial agreements”

    Where did you get that idea? Probably from a feminist church secretary or administrator.

    Not true. The nobility have always had marriage contracts which provided for property arrangements, dowry, what happened to property at death, etc. So this isn’t a problem.

    There may be some eyebrow raising with regard to mentioning divorce in the pre-nup, but as the Church recognizes the right of divorce (which the Church means as a legal severing of everything except the sacramental bond – which requires an annulment – with the wife now living in separate maintenance); this is the same thing as prepared for in a pre-nup.

    So, you have been given erroneous advice. Get a Catholic male attorney who is cognizant of these facts and have him draw up one that meets the language the Church wants to see, which does not presume a divorce, but provides for a Catholic divorce (remember legal severing) if the woman violates the marriage contract or seeks such a legal severing.

  169. orion 2 says:

    @ MackPUA

    I agree.

    BUT, how could they become more attuned to reality?

    The key problem is that their genetic programming expresses itself in the way of feelings which rule them completely in todays society.

    They live in a society that encourages them to follow their heart, which is, as far as genetic programming goes, similar to a man following his dick.

    I think most men are aware that “following your dick” does not a functioning society make, women should be aware that if they insist on playing an equal role in the public sphere, their instincts have to be reigned in too.

    By them.

    Themselves.,

    If it should turn out that they are unable to., men will have to do it for them.

    I am not even interested in doing that, but current birthrates being what they are, it is either that or perish.

  170. Z. says:

    Michael, if you’re still lurking around I want to say that if you are at least a 5 on a 1-10 appearance spectrum, and if you do not come across as awkward in social situations, given that you are smart, successful and the owner of prime beach front property (a great place to bring a date home to after a night out), then you should be able to attract normal, healthy, sane women in their mid to late 20s.

    I know that California has some of the country’s best looking people. There certainly is no dearth of attractive women there. Amongst them I am sure that a not insignificant portion are healthy, sane and personable. They are out there but you must put yourself out there to meet them.

    Forget dating sites and the bar scene. Try http://www.meetup.com
    Its free and you it provides a network for people interested in a wide variety of topics and activities. I’ve been to a number of these meetups myself and have made some very good friends from them. Everything from biking to hiking to surfing to cooking to un-cooking to meditation to remote viewing to adoption issues groups, YOU NAME IT.
    Whatever you’re into, meetup.com can hook you up with a local meetup group.

    Don’t expect that women are just going to walk up to you and ask you out. Won’t happen unless you’re at least a 9, possibly an 8.5 but not below. Us lesser mortals have to approach them. We want to make sure though that we are approaching women who we have something in common with. Meetup.com is one way to filter for similar interests.

  171. Michael says:

    @ Z

    “One thing I can’t understand though is why you were consistently rejected by women. What is it about you that not a single one of the women you interacted with would not have you?”

    - There HAD to have been “something” about me to warrant me being single. According to the “my intuition is my God” women mindset. Since no women would have me, and women’s intuition is divine (see: 40% single motherhood rate) I MUST have been inferior in some way. It is the ONLY explanation. However I was not rejected. I had various sluts and whores that wanted to sleep with me in college all through my twenties. But knowing they had been around made me sick. If anything is wrong with me it was/is the fact I have some kind of mental issue regarding the numbers of men a women has been with. I would not have minded if they had been with 5 guys or less. But it was always in the double digits. I also had plenty of unattractive girls and a few plump-ers who were intersted in me for marriage. But I turned them down because I wanted was someone of EQUAL appearance. But it just didn’t happen. I kept faithfully hoping and praying but nothing ever happened and I refused to participate in bars, clubs, that kind of thing.

    “Have you yourself ever done any rejecting?”

    -Man times. Sluts, Whores. Fatties and what personally call “Confident Fives”. These are women who are a 5 on a scale of 1-10 and full of confidence. I always got the scary feeling these girls could “smell” I was alone and didn’t have options. Otherwise what would give them the courage to make a run at me or other guys far above their level? It made me feel very humble and insecure. Caused me to second guess myself over and over again. Nothing raises my SMV assessment in my twenties like a fat confident five KNOWING she is the right fit for me.

    “That is, until 30 hits. OK so now’s your time to swoop in for the kill! If women in their 30s are eager to husband up some man, and you are eager to wife up some woman to create the family you’ve always dreamed of – perfect combo! Go for it!”

    -Why should I trust a women over 30? I watched what they did. Ever seen girls gone wild? Sure. There are a few good ones. But I have no way of knowing..

    I can’t understand a successful man living in a nice house on the beach not being able to wife somebody up. It just doesn’t make sense. You are either doing something wrong or you look very physically unattractive.

    -I don’t have a house on the beach. I live in a penthouse apartment directly on the beach. In a super tall building. Nobody can afford a house in Los Angeles anymore. My neighbors are doctors and other attorney’s. A house in a safe clean community in Los Angeles starts at 1 million and you get nothing for it. We are talking about a 2 story house built in 1975 perhaps 1800 sqf living space and your neighbors house so close you can touch it. For 1 million dollars. It’s a complete joke. If you want a house directly on the beach you’re looking at 10 million+ on the strand. I cannot afford that.

    “In either case, there must be some sort of action you can take to reverse this situation.”

    -I spend allot of time working alone. It’s 7:29pm on a Friday night. I have another hour of work before I can go home. I have no plans tonight. I will be sitting at home alone listening to the waves crash, feeling sorry for myself. The only thing I can think of is to look overseas. I just want a young cute (not hot, cute) wife to handle domestic matters and care for the kids who will stay with me. I don’t want to be alone at 70 like I am now.

  172. Michael says:

    @ Z

    I’ve already tried meetup.com. The percentage of men is ALWAYS higher than the women at ther meetups and the women interested in me are NOT attractive. I gave up on meetup.com a long time ago.

    I do have women approach me. Fatties, Confident Fives, and Spinsters. A few attractive single mothers as well. But sorry, I must apologize in advance, however I’m not interested in the only success I’ve achieved in life (a good income) going to another mans DNA. Sorry to sound so cold.

  173. Z. says:

    Michael, if you read my comment (at 9:13pm) above your latest one, you will see that I gave you some good advice. Try it.

    One thing though is that you do seem to be claiming you are a man without options;

    “Man times. Sluts, Whores. Fatties and what personally call “Confident Fives”. These are women who are a 5 on a scale of 1-10 and full of confidence. I always got the scary feeling these girls could “smell” I was alone and didn’t have options. ”

    So why are you without options? That is the question. No “feminine intuition” here man. I’m just another dude trying to help another dude out.

    I mean, if even I, who am considerably less successful and accomplished as you are, can manage to attract and keep a few very decent women, I don’t get why you can’t also.

  174. Z. says:

    “I do have women approach me. Fatties, Confident Fives, and Spinsters. A few attractive single mothers as well. But sorry, I must apologize in advance, however I’m not interested in the only success I’ve achieved in life (a good income) going to another mans DNA. Sorry to sound so cold.”

    If you’re not an Adonis then why not go for the Confident 5 as long as she is childless and shares similar values as you ? I mean, 5 is average, not ugly. 5 can be moderately cute. With some effort a 5 can improve to 6.5 or even 7 which is well above average and in the pretty range.

    There is no perfect person and we usually have to compromise in some area. I say give a few 5s a chance and if you meet one who shares your same goals and values and wants to be a good wife and mother, go for it!

    Its much wiser to compromise a bit on looks than on character.

  175. Michael says:

    @ Z

    You have got to be kidding me. Perhaps you are ok with holding hands in public with a Fattie or Confident 5. I am not. For me those options are no options at all. First of all. I keep myself in shape. I am about a 7 – 7.5. Gym/running 2-3 times week. Second I graduated top 2% of my class. Third I own my own practice and make over $170k/yr/. I have a great reputation and one of the highest client retention rates in my field.

    Why should I have to settle for a Confident Five when unemployed losers covered in tattoos playing guitar man at a Sunset Strip bar are pulling down 7′s, 8′s, and 9′s all night?

    Why should I have to compromise or settle on what these guys would not even touch?

  176. Novaseeker says:

    Why should I have to compromise or settle on what these guys would not even touch?

    Because you are not bringing what they have to the table.

    Income is fie — for you. It isn’t important for attraction for women in the 21st. Not. Important. So knock that off the list. Being in shape is good, and has gotten you the attention that it has. But unless it is coupled with Game/dominance/social-presence, it’s going to underperform.

    So your options are: (1) stay very picky as you are and learn Game and see how high you can shoot or (2) settle for what you can get without spitting some good Game. LA isn’t helping — it’s one of the most super competitive markets in the country, and you aren’t bringing what is wanted (again, your practice and income are irrelevant for attraction in the 21st).

    You need to realize that it’s great that you’ve built that practice and that book. But really it isn’t important for attracting women in the 21st Century. Other than ones you don’t want to attract. You need to do that stuff for yourself, and then spend enough time focusing on being the sexy, socially-present, cut, dominant stud that women are attracted to — especially in a place like Los Angeles.

  177. Z. says:

    “I am about a 7 – 7.5. ….Why should I have to compromise?”

    Because your feminine counterpart, your equal, the female 7-7.5s, have already married the male 9s, that’s why.

  178. Michael says:

    @ Novaseeker

    “Because you are not bringing what they have to the table.”

    They don’t bring anything to the table exempt a social presence and an unemployment check. Or talk talk talk talk talk. Unwarranted confidence with NOTHING to back it up other than the image they are projecting to the audience. It is an absolute fact most guys in bands are losers.

    All of my efforts go to my business, my clients, it takes everything out of me. I have to stay in Los Angeles because all my clients are here meaning I have a legitimate business reason for being here.

    And I don’t have the energy to learn to perfect a fake social act to for pussy. That’s what you’re advising isn’t it?

    Women’s intuition is superior. “A girl just knows”. Right? So I need to learn that up is down and left is is right. I can’t do it. It’s too much..

  179. Z. says:

    “All of my efforts go to my business, my clients, it takes everything out of me. I have to stay in Los Angeles because all my clients are here meaning I have a legitimate business reason for being here. ”

    So with all your time, energy and focus going into your business, what do you have to offer to a woman in marriage? Will you be able to spend time with a wife and children? Would you cut back from your clients post-wedding or what?

    Also, why are you so looks obsessed? A 5 is not ugly, just average looking. Average can be moderately cute. With effort an average 5 can become an above average 6 or even your equal at a 7. There is no perfect person and we have to compromise somewhere because WE are also not perfect. It is the usual case that a woman dates or marries a man better looking than she due to female hypergamy. Your female 7 will be with a male 8 or 9. Your female 8 will be with a male 9 or 10. That’s just the way it is. So if you did get with a 5, that fits right within the paradigm. And she can anyhow make herself into a 6 or 7 with some effort, so there, you’ve got your equal.

    The really important thing is does she share your values and does she want to be a good wife to you and the mother of your children?

  180. Novaseeker says:

    All of my efforts go to my business, my clients, it takes everything out of me. I have to stay in Los Angeles because all my clients are here meaning I have a legitimate business reason for being here.

    Yes, I know. That is why I said upthread that I understood it would be very hard to get away from LA. I’m also a lawyer — I get it. But, it’s true that this narrows your options if you still want a wife, because LA is a hellacious market for mating. So, you need to look at Plan Bs … which gets to

    And I don’t have the energy to learn to perfect a fake social act to for pussy. That’s what you’re advising isn’t it?

    No, Game isn’t about being a fake to get pussy. It’s really about being the most masculine version of yourself you can be, so that you put your best foot forward attraction wise.

    Also, why are you so looks obsessed?

    He’s in LA.

  181. One other thought on Michael’s plight (and he’s been coming around a lot since he first showed up, which is good, as he’s working through the “System Mismatch” issue he’s run headlong into):

    He’s still a lawyer. In LA, he’s still going to attract those seeing dollar signs. So even if he’s filtering well, he’s still in an environment that’s going to be like moths to a fire. Further, because of the amount of time he’s spending on his work right now, he doesn’t have much of a “safe” social area to interact with people. As a few other commenters have mentioned, even the Churches are a veritable desert for women focused on marriage.

    I think Michael might have one of the nastiest mismatches between the local environment and what he can pull off. So, maybe he needs to head over to Sunshine Mary’s place and chat people up, haha. (I have worse ideas than that)

    Michael: ever felt out some of your religious clients for their family contacts? Even if that can be a higher risk endeavor. (Though if they have nieces not in LA, that might be fertile territory)

  182. Anono-man says:

    This blog seems to appeal to men like me, men who believe that the husband should be in charge of the home, the wife should submit to him, and that it is immoral for one spouse to dump the other just to look for allegedly greener pastures.

    If men are in charge in the home, and we do return to what is good and right about patriarchy in our society, then shouldn’t we embrace the tradition that the man proposes to the woman. In spite of feminism and occasional TV shows where the woman proposes, it is still a strong tradition. Young women infected by feminist thought may still want a man to propose if there is going to be a marriage. For me, a woman proposing to me back when I was single would have been a big turn off. I cringed at an episode of Friends that featured this idea. He is expected to do it. In many cases, the woman still waits for the man to ask her out. That’s changed a lot, but who are the women who ask men out? Probably a lot of them are feminists in their thinking.

    My point is why is this article putting the responsibility for getting married on the woman, in this case the feminist woman? The man is often the one who asks the girl out. Usually, he is the one who proposes.

    So why is it on feminists if they don’t get married? Should they turn into aggressive feminists and start proposing to guys? Isn’t it better if severe feminists don’t marry and raise children?

  183. JoeS says:

    It’s not possible for women, on average, to marry up. (unless men on average are ranked higher than women).

  184. Johnycomelately says:

    Michael

    My brother is dating a girl from the Balkans and all I can say is I now know how Darwin felt when he went to the the Galapagos, it’s like discovering a new species, demure, feminine, petite, attractive, respectful, is 25 and feels old, wants children and easily led.

    Until I met this girl I had pretty much given up on women, just remember there is a whole globe out there and you bring a shit load to the table and will easily land a 10 outside the Anglo sphere.

    Logistics might be a pain in the arse but it is certainly worth it.

  185. Michael writes, “Why should I have to settle for a Confident Five when unemployed losers covered in tattoos playing guitar man at a Sunset Strip bar are pulling down 7′s, 8′s, and 9′s all night?”

    zlozozozozoz dat is da gbfm playing dat guitar at a sunsste strip barz!!! dudez you needz to pay a cover chagre of $5 to comez see my showz and i can help you out man give you a 6 leftroverz groupie which is better dan your confident 5!!!!

    having a jobz is so betaz in da age of bernankez when money is just something dey printz which has lead to da wortlesseness of moneyz in womenz eyez and only tehy only look at da size of your occkas lotsas cocokas zlzzozozlzo which is also tatoooed zlzozolzzo

    muy bandz is calledz LOTSASSOCKASZ so next timeez you see us playingz out come join da show bro!! therez are less whoringz hoesz at our concertz den at LA churches–dat i can promise youz!!!!

  186. anonymous says:

    Anonymous (grey) who posts here has also managed it there, but it was extremely difficult.

    My wife is from Ventura county. Different planet, for all practical purposes. LA women are evil.

  187. hey michaeelz

    i think i can translatez Z for you.

    Z is sayingz, “why not settle for a bernaknkiifked buttcockedz multi-buttocokedz five who has accepted jesus and thus has your same value ssytemz and who willsz still cheeatz on youz any timez and pay her billz nd fund her future buttcockeingz sessiosnz???? what is wrongz with you???? maybee its just your stoopid fault for spenddingz soooo mucch stiupidz timez on yoru stuspidz businessszz and datz isa why u are having toruble findidng a goodz LA golddiggerrz it iss all your faultz why arez you so una ttrrictive to womenz to all the gooddz butteoccking and buttcocked La gold diggeingz womenz? you sayz you are a sevenez s then at most you deserve a 3.5 as a manz must divide his lookz by two and dat is the womenz he desevrez as stated by ben buetteocckingz beenrekekz and if you cant attrack a good, traditional, pre-buttocked chritstina with a sore buttholez shiwhc she will taake on you it is your own damnede fault hnya h nyha nyha nyhah lzlzozzoozozlz”

    i thinzk dat is wht Z is trying to sayz?
    Z you are welocmez i am glad yto make you more undertstanablez for our good chriatins brotherz ins serah of fmelalve wivez lzozzlzzzo

  188. greyghost says:

    Mike
    Post an add in LA craiglist ask for an attractive young womean ready to be a submissive wife. See what shows up.Study game and spend more time with Chateau Heartiste. Take action and approach and speak to women you find physically attractive. Get involved in shooting skeet or going to an indoor pistol range and invite your male neighbors . Talk to them about what you have going on and maybe you can be introduced. Expand your foot print outside of your normal routine to give you more exposure to different people. When someone says “our church (or whatever ) is having a picnic (what ever) go and meet and greet. Go with the attitude of practicing your game and not finding the one. Do all with enjoyment and all eye contact with women should be with the background thought of the women you are talking to naked or sexing you. Feel free to smile with the shit eating grin. have fun

  189. Michael says:

    @ Z

    A five is a five is a five. It’s called DNA. You can wax and detail a 1999 Honda but its still a 1999 Honda. Sixes and sevens are not Marrying nines and tens unless the guys are poor or mediocre. Men are much more appearance orientated than women. Your saying that in spite of my upbringing values morals monogamy fatherhood orientation physical shape education and the fact I worked hard and tenaciuols in a system where the odds are stacked against a smart hard working people making even 70k per year – that I deserve – for my efforts and accomplishments to create a family – an average Five that not even some tattoo covered low wage loser or highly sociable party guy living in his parents house would look twice at, let alone consider fucking three beers short of a twelve pack, let alone consider dating.

    I REFUSE to accept that. If this is the deal I should have never even tried to better myself or assist in creating a new software program or anything else I have ever done its all for nothing because let me tell you something (you have got to be a women) deep, down inside one of the main driving forces is sex. The promise that if I just slug it out one more day at the office I could have a beautiful young wife to kiss in the kitchen (or anywhere else) when I get home. Your saying I dont deserve that. I deserve a physically undesirable women and should feel lucky to have her. I REFUSE to accept that.

  190. Michael says:

    @ jonycomelately

    It’s starting to look like a last hope. I purchased a Russian accelerator language course to try and improve my odds. The total cost from A – Z will be upwards of $20,000. But I could careless about the money my problem is keeping my business running in LA while day is night on the other side of the world. I’m still trying to figure out how to do this without using methamphetamine pills. Need to get on this as soon as possible. Just never have time. I have a friend in Serbia who says the same thing.If I could find some kind of dating site for FSU women living on Los Angeles that would be a good start too.

  191. They Call Me Tom says:

    “and the problem of many of the commentators here and at other sites like Sunshinemary’s, is not finding a woman who will marry them. The problem is finding a woman worth marrying who actually wants to marry them.”

    This nailed it.

    As to compromising on looks… compromising on looks doesn’t tend to improve the quality of personality. The mythology says that there’s some inverse relationship between beauty and personality… but the truth is that ugly people can be just as unpleasant as beautiful people. The majority of average, and even slightly above average, looking women have all the demands and expectations that one might expect of a 10. They can have all the same entitlement mindset of only taking from a relationship and not giving to it, because the entitlement mindset isn’t about looks. It’s simply a mindset.

    So telling a man to compromise on looks if he wants to find a good woman is an absurd suggestion. In my experience, and I’m sure in many other men’s experience, good looking women find it easier to be pleasant, because they’re less self conscious, less threatened by the competition, etc. The average girls have been competing so long with their peers, especially the better looking peers, that it’s hard for them to put the knives down when it comes to men. The most immature/ unbalanced woman I ever dated was also the plainest of the women I’ve dated. One anecdotal experience is enough in my experience to dismiss the myth that compromising on looks is the best way to end up with a good wife.

  192. Michael says:

    It’s funny the grammatically challenged poster mentions accepting Jesus in the context of a women being a Five. One look at Christian dating sites speaks volumes about attractive women’s faith in proportion to there options. One website that comes to mind is “big church”. They didn’t name it “big” for nothing. The site is five central. You will notice on most Christian dating sites there are more physically un appealing women vs. mainstream non religious dating sites. The percentage of attractive white women is far, far lower than on non Christian dating sites like match.com. There should be no difference. Yet there clearly is. It angers me seeing these women being only as faithful as their options. There should be the exact same percentage of attractive women on Christian dating sites vs. non religious. Yet there is not.

  193. @Michael:

    Well, you’re still coming along, even if you have a bit more left to digest and work through, so then you can start adapting.

    Reminder: you got sold a “bill of goods”. Work better than the competition, get good woman, have a good family. Old system that only ever, kind of, maybe didn’t, work. It’s been dead just after your parents got married, likely. It hurts, but the truth is you *deserve* nothing; it’s a matter of adapting to the environment and grasping what is available. You already do this in your work life, so it’s a matter of adjusting to it in the social sphere.

    So, lay out your goals and requirements: what do you actually want? Do you see it around you? If not, figure out where it is (or find a sphere of people that can suggest where to look).

    I absolutely do not think you should “settle” or “compromise”. While your rankings are probably a little skewed due to being in LA, it doesn’t mean you can’t go find a woman somewhere else. Whether somewhere else in the country or out of the country. But come to terms with the situation not being what you were sold and I think your prospects will improve on that alone.

    Also, maybe think of a vacation to a nice place in the Mountain West, that’s a little out of the way. You probably also need to relax a bit.

  194. John Titor says:

    I noticed that too, Michael. It’s very frustrating.

    It’s like women think men pop boners solely based on how well they can quote some pop-Christian book. “Surely I’ll have floods of men looking at my profile when I can quote Eat Pray Love! Please disregard my horrid picture, or lack of one entirely.”

    On second thought, it may very well be that a lot of these Christian women are very wary about looking “attractive” simply because that could imply that they are easy and un-Christian. This thought gave me pause, because there’s quite a bit of anecdotal evidence going on here – the woman who can make herself look attractive, but not have to exaggerate her sexuality in order to do so, seems to be rare. I can’t remember the last one that was able to pull it off. There’s always a simple touch-up with makeup, but that’s as far as they go. Being able to look good and look classy at the same time seems to be something of a lost art.

  195. Opus says:

    I hadn’t been in L.A.more than a day or so, when I had women (including one married bitch)throwing themselves at me, but I suppose they just liked the accent. Over here – at least when I was younger – being a lawyer seemed to make little difference in ones matrimonial chances; most of my lawyer contemporaries were married by the age of twenty-five – indeed one was married to a fellow student even before coming down form Cambridge! and now I come to remind myself, two class-mates (of opposite sexes, of course) were married even as a first year law-students (that is to say aged just 19) !!!! – but then in those days every one was married by 25, such that if you weren’t, then all that was left were the sluts and weirdos. I recall one woman, rather good looking aged about 29 – who I worked with and I knew she was never likely to marry as she was seen as too old, and saw herself that way too – that was how things were then! This put terrible pressure on the guys, as a man without a woman was tacitly seen as a loser, any woman being better than grinding celibacy. I particuarily think of two guys I knew, not lawyers both unusually tall, who had become engaged to probably their first or only girlfriend and who were both treated appalingly by their bad-tempered bitches – but they just put up with it, deluding themsleves with false ideas of loyalty, as men always do. The average age for a woman to marry was not quite twenty-one, which is I believe historically quite low. How quickly things can change, and can doubtless change again. From the figures I extracted above it is fairly likely that by 2020 or therabouts the number of 30 year old women who are married, will be some way below 50%, and with that level of non take-up, incentive to marriage is going to fade away. Whether it will be replaced by cohabitation (I doubt it) or whether women will all decide to slut-it-up until forty in the vain and forlorn hope that they will then meet Prince Charming and have a trophy child I don’t know. Even females must pay some attention to what their older sisters are experiencing, such that I expect a backlash, but as TFH says, after more doubling-down from the White-Knights and Manginas.

    What would people think if some guy had written (to twist the quote from Walsh above), ‘as a college graduate I held three things to be self-evident; that I expected to be kept, expected to have a never ending supply of nubile women and expected to foist on some hapless Beta responsibility for any child I produced’ – and then to feel proud about that, only later to realise that such would be a very narrow view of life. Would their dimness be greater than their selfishness? – yet that is the reverse of what Walsh is preening herself with above. The only thing is that the male version is not possible for all but a few, whereas that is not the case with the female version. Feminism aids promiscuity, and thus makes women unmarriagable.

  196. alcestiseshtemoa says:

    @Michael – Forget online dating (whether in the USA or abroad, because a couple of foreign dating agencies aren’t good either). Travel to some other country (East Asia, Eastern Europe or South/Latin America), fish in a different pond (or even ocean) and find a good middle (or upper) class religious woman there.

  197. alcestiseshtemoa says:

    Be careful with the globalized Anglospherian media and culture though. It can change people. I’ve heard of instances where good women change all of the sudden when they come upon the USA or keep drinking from American pop culture abroad. Or maybe they were mercenaries all along? Who knows…

  198. alcestiseshtemoa says:

    I’ve come to the conclusion that the combined low SMV/MMV women “I wish I was a New Age goddess!” (both inner and outer uglies), or women who can’t make a total/complete package, trying to get it on with high SMV/MMV men are practicing projection on the evil boogeyman religious Patriarchy.

    The Patriarchy was never about high man with low woman (that is feminism, false idols and the spirit of Jezebel). Patriarchy concerns itself with aspects such as monogamy (not the feminine imperative serial monogamy) and assortive mating, not serial monogamy (sometimes hitting on polygamy) and not high SMV/MMV man with low SMV/MMV woman.

  199. alcestiseshtemoa says:

    Also to these women average men are invisible and don’t exist. There’s more than just low men and high men. There’s average men too. But they don’t care about that…

  200. LH says:

    @Michael,

    You may be able to find a good Russian woman, but that wouldn’t be the first place I’d recommend. An advantage of Russia is that from what I hear, they are still a bit patriarchal. Men usually get the better jobs. But I hear society is generally kind of slutty over there. Statistically, women who are virgins at marriage or only with the man they marry before marriage are less likely to divorce.

    What I don’t get is why Russia would be a source for American men to find traditional women. It’s strange to me. When I was growing up, Russia was the big atheist enemy, the evil empire, with all the brain washing of the youth who told on their parents. It did not sound like a good family values place.

    I may be biased because my wife is an Indonesian Christian, but Indonesia can be a good place to get wives. If you happen to be white, you probably get +2 on your sex rank score already, at least with a lot of women. My wife is beautiful. Honestly, for my taste, the average Indonesian woman is probably a little lower for looks than the average American woman, but there are also some really, really beautiful women there.

    What is good about Indonesia is that it is common for women, and men to, to remain virgins about marriage. Women also generally accept the idea that a wife is to submit to her husband. The country is predominantly Muslim. Officially, it’s maybe 8% Christian. Really it’s probably 20 or 30% professing Christian and the government doesn’t want to anger people by letting that out, IMO. Muslims believe wives should submit to their husbands, and that is part of the cultural backdrop. Christians believe it too. Feminism seemed to be a weak force in that society when I was there several years ago. I think I met one local who called herself a feminist the whole time I was there. Women are expected to cook, clean, have kids. The value it. Everyone expects newly married couples to have a child the first year of marriage. My wife and I decided to hold off a little longer on that. Motherhood is highly valued.

    Indonesians tend to be laid back and jovial, not as uptight as Koreans or Japanese seem to be. I noticed sex jokes there are usually about marriage, things like teasing newly weds without getting too graphic. Talk and thought on sex is very much related to marriage, even in the humor. It seems like the general attitude about sex is positive and associated with marriage. Marriage is a positive thing in their culture and if you date for a while, marriage is expected.

    Lots of women like white men. For one thing, they were colonized by Europeans and the Dutch may have driven home the idea of their own superiority. Western wages are much higher than local wages there, and so they automatically think of whites and lots of other foreigners as rich and high class. Years of white protagonists in film saving the world, may also have influenced Indonesian women to like white men. A ‘protruding nose’ is considered a desirable trait– a nose shaped like a westerner’s nose.

    You have to be careful there. You don’t want to marry a woman who is too desperate to marry a white man. It is common for women to stay virgins until marriage, even if that means waiting until 30 (which is late to get married there.) But there are some girls who haven’t kept their virginity just like anyone else. Indonesian girls can also be a little more direct about hinting that they like you or smiling at you. Be careful of girls who are too desperate or aggressive, though.

    The Philippines may also be a good place to find a wife. There are good and bad wife candidates probably from every country. In general, I’d think you should be careful with Chinese and Korean women. In Indonesia, Chinese women are known for chewing out or nagging their husbands. Young Korean women sound and act really demure and submissive, but I think once they marry, they may be inclined to try to rule the roost. At least Korean TV shows show this kind of dynamic in the family with lots of husbands who defer to the wives in the shows.

    I hear Philippine wives are supposed to submit to their husbands in that culture, but the husband often gives the wife the paycheck to manage every week. Vietnamese women are expected to submit to their husbands but are also expected to send their parents money after marriage.

    I agree with the advice that it is best to go there and meet the women and get to know them. I’m not against online dating, but it’s good to meet people in person. If you bring a woman back and she drinks in pop culture, she might get contaminated. You need to find a woman who has her own convictions before she gets here, and then actively manage your marriage. Let your wife know you expect submission and respect before you marry and point it out when she shows a small problem with it.

  201. Ton says:

    I don’t get why Michael wants a wife; he could give me half his shit without going through the grind of marriage. Lest I would appreciate his hard work and generous gift….

    Part of Michael problem is an utter lack of understanding what women find attractive, but you can feel for him as he deals with the lies he’s living under.

    Woman are largely without morals. That, does she share your values bit is a load of shit. She does not. She might ape them, but she most likely won’t have any. And it would.take decades to figure out if her morality is genuine or a front.

    Ignoring looks is ignoring a man’s sexual nature and is also bullshit.

    Income; how much is 170k in LA? I make 3 times the median household income for my state, and I have noticed it is a factor in dating, but more like the icing on the cake kind of way. Girls making 50k a year here have a very comfortable life. I’m thinking the median income for Michael’s AO is like 56k, and 170k is not enough to be a draw all on its own. With how cheap stuff is, like running air conditioning and buying food, compared to years past, I’m thinking it takes more then 3x median household income for you pay to be a big appeal.

    Same with being in shape. If your in ok condition in a place where folks put a premium on it, your sucking hind tit. And woman only understand the illusion of fitness, not the reality of it

  202. mackPUA says:

    @Z
    “So with all your time, energy and focus going into your business, what do you have to offer to a woman in marriage?”

    Out of morbid curiousity, what should michael have as a requisite? He’s got the cars, the looks & the wealth …

    Cant handle the fact women are loosers & have zero relationship & zero mating skills?

    Seriously what idiot goes around shagging bums & loosers as a mating strategy … oh yea women do …

    My advice to Michael would be, save up as much cash as you can & ex-pat,

    The vast majority of women, are filthy vermin vultures, feeding off the worst vermin of society

    Feminism turned most women into std infested loosers …

    Without slut shaming women have no self concious, zero self preservation instinct, women are the very definition of loosers & bums …

  203. James says:

    @Michael

    Why should I have to settle for a Confident Five when unemployed losers covered in tattoos playing guitar man at a Sunset Strip bar are pulling down 7′s, 8′s, and 9′s all night?

    Why should I have to compromise or settle on what these guys would not even touch?

    You are not compromising, you are going for the very best, but using a different measure from everyone else. You wouldn’t want the 9′s that go for Tattoed Guitarman, because (a) their N is in double or triple digits, (b) when they have produced the number of kids that they want, they will divorce-rape you so they can go back to a Tattoed Guitarman, and you will have to support him as well as your ex-family while he earns pennies playing his guitar.

    You have to decide what is negotiable for you, and what is non-negotiable. If you want an 8 or 9, AND you want her to have decent morals and a short sexual history, then you are asking for more than the men who “only” want an 8 or 9, and you are in competition with all those men.

    If on the other hand you find a 5 who has the values that you want, you will find that you really like a lot of things about about her, and her looks will suddenly become less important to you. As the years go by, you will notice that your friends and colleagues who married arm candy are busy having affairs, getting divorced, and generally having a miserable time.

  204. One thing to keep in mind with Michael’s position: about 40 years ago, a guy like him would have landed at least an 8 for a life-long marriage. From previous interactions with his story, he grew up with that expectation, mostly as he saw it all around him. (Why would you assume it’s changed when everyone tells you it hasn’t? Not until you run into the meatginder part of the world)

    So it’s not just the world changed on him (for the past, oh, 250 years, he pretty much would have been right, at least in the West), but he ended up being actively lied to by a lot of people. It’ll probably take him a bit longer to shift and adjust, but he’ll eventually make peace with it. Then he’ll adapt.

    I am curious if an expensive, rapid language learning program ends up working though. I’m pretty curious about that bit. :)

  205. Höllenhund says:

    Michael,

    the simple fact is that you’ve fucked up and this cannot be undone. You followed rules that are no longer enforced, you followed a script that nobody besides men like you take seriously anymore. You busted your ass and worked hard to become a working beta, but working betas are despised by everyone who’s not a working beta, because everyone instinctively knows that you’re the useful idiot of the welfare state. Your tax dollars are diverted to people who despise you: “single mothers”, female office workers, welfare queens and the psychopathic alpha thugs occupying the top of the male socio-sexual hierarchy.

    You think you’ve worked hard all your life because you have morals and a noble work ethic. Everybody else thinks you’ve worked hard because you’re a dumb shit. As far as they’re concerned, you’re either too dumb or too cowardly to steal other people’s money in one way or another. You either lacked the connections to become one of the fat cats of society who amass their fortunes by cheating clueless people out of their money, or you lacked the necessary testosterone and aggression to become one of the violent alpha louts who get sexed by women. The top men despise you, women despise you and the underclass despises you as well, because they all agree that your ilk only exist to be milked. They let you create wealth so that they can plunder it. That’s the only reason they tolerate your existence.

  206. alcestiseshtemoa says:

    James seems to be repeating the lie that 9s and 10s have it in the double to triple digit partner counts. One thing one should know about N number on women (when SMV/MMV are combined, not necessarily when they don’t intersect). The highest women (7s to 10s) have the lowest. The average types 4s to 6s have the highest partner count, whether it be ONS or serial monogamy, and they are quite hypergamous. The 1s to 3s sometimes have the lowest partner count, unless they are surrounded by men who have “below economic floor standards” (men with really low standards, and men on average have low/basic standards in various departments when looking for a woman), because not even the highest men would touch men. High SMV/MMV men, if they dip outside of their pool, go for average plain Jane types and never some wildbeast.

  207. alcestiseshtemoa says:

    Opps. A huge misspelling. I meant “because not even the highest men would touch them.”

  208. alcestiseshtemoa says:

    Basically it’s like a god mating with a mortal woman. Think Greek-Roman myths. Male gods and female mortals couplings with demi-gods being brought forward was much more common than the inverse (female goddess with male mortal). Feminists have rewritten history to make those types of couplings seem “patriarchal” and have projected themselves into it, but Patriarchy is monogamy and assortive mating. From this link —> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demigod

    The fact that male deities of Greek myth had far more notable children with mortals than the female goddesses can be attributable to the Greek male-dominated society being reflected in their religion. Zeus, primarily, and also Poseidon, all had a multitude of affairs with mortal women, with Zeus having to shield them from his wife Hera after she was alerted to the infidelity. The females were expected to remain loyal to their husbands, while the males were almost expected to take multiple lovers, meaning that far more of the demigods in Greek myths were born on earth to human mothers than on Olympus to divine mothers.

    The highest MMV/SMV combined women don’t typically dip outside of their pools and don’t have the highest partner count on average. Female mortals (average Janes) are the ones who keep searching for their gods.

  209. Novaseeker says:

    If this is the deal I should have never even tried to better myself or assist in creating a new software program or anything else I have ever done its all for nothing because let me tell you something (you have got to be a women) deep, down inside one of the main driving forces is sex. The promise that if I just slug it out one more day at the office I could have a beautiful young wife to kiss in the kitchen (or anywhere else) when I get home. Your saying I dont deserve that.

    It’s because you don’t. You don’t *deserve* anything. You’re not entitled to anything just because you decided to work hard and establish yourself. You’re entitled, of course, to what that *directly* brings if you are successful at it — money, success, business relationships. The “indirect” benefits of that have been taken away due to the fact that women can support themselves very well now without your money directly, through a combination of their own money and tax-funded state subsidies. The ones who want your money in this culture are certainly not the ones you should be thinking about (and you do seem to realize that as well). Because women can support themselves economically quite well now, they select men on other bases.

    Donalgraeme, who occasionally posts here and also over at SSM’s blog, has a schema where he describes the five main vectors of female attraction as they play out today: LAMPS. L is for looks (which isn’t fitness per se, but how handsome you are naturally in terms of genetics, symmetry and so on), A is for athleticism (either actual sports or, for most people, fitness and muscle structure/tone), M is for money (self-explanatory), P is for power (which is generally contextual social power) and S is for status (both your actual social status in general, and your contextual social status relative to other men on the radar screen). That’s what the market looks like. Now, you may look at that and think “Hmmm, I have all of those”, but that’s doubtful. Very few men have all of them, and the ones who do are swimming in women. You need to take an honest look at the LAMPS factors and assess what your actual value is — and don’t overvalue the “M” factor, because it really isn’t a huge factor as you can see for yourself, as long as you aren’t living in Mom’s basement at age 40, because women have their own money now. Change what you need to change and improve what you need to improve, keeping in mind that none of this means you “deserve” anything — it just makes you a better competitor in the market.

    LA is a problem, because in the LA market there are quite a few men who rate quite high on the LAMPS factors, and they tend to suck up the women. Each major metro emphasizes some aspects of LAMPS more than others (in NY, M is more important than it is elsewhere, in LA/Miami, L and A are more important than they are in, say, St. Louis or Milwaukee, etc.) in relative terms, but LA attracts high LAMPS guys (because, like South Florida, it also attracts a lot of hot women). So LA is very challenging as a marketplace for the SMP/MMP unless you really bring it in all categories, and even then, the number of women who have morals and want to settle down in that way is smaller in that context as well. Here in DC we have our own challenges (of the LAMPS factors, P and S are the real drivers here, which is why they have often been the focus of Roissy’s analysis — he isn’t living in Miami or LA), but we also have a great deal of conformity around highly educated assortatively mated couples marrying between 28 and and 35, so most guys who want to marry can get married (but of course not to HB9s), which is very different from, say, Manhattan or LA.

    When it comes to foreign women, keep in mind that bringing them to the US to live in this culture is a high risk. Women are a herd. They tend towards follow each other’s trends, independent of the men they are with. A woman who has not been exposed to the American feminist herd and developed a resistance to it (like women who are raised here and yet are not feminist) is a big risk for catching the disease when she gets here and conforming to the norms of the American female herd. It’s not uncommon, even in cases where she wasn’t merely fishing for a green card. The key to the foreign woman deal is expatriating yourself, thereby getting the benefits of the cultural shift and keeping the woman away from the American herd.

    In any case, the first step you need to overcome is getting past your sense of entitlement, and the idea that you deserve a certain kind of woman because of what you have built in your life. You don’t. You deserve the sort of woman you are capable of attracting in terms of what this market demands. The old script is dead. You have to adapt to the new one, or find other options, but stewing with a sense of entitlement will get you precisely nowhere.

  210. lozzzoozzz hey NovaSeeker,

    with all due respeceepct, are you menetally retatrdedd or just stoooopidzz??

    out of curiosity, how many LA chciksz have you picked up and/or banged? I bet it is a big fat 0, or maybe you banged an LA 2 once.

    when you club in LA (or church for that matter zlozozlz), do you whip out your little LAMPZ scorecard and a spreadsheet program and run your odds on the room? i bet you SCRARE THE SHIT OUT OF WOMENZ with your little LAMP chartz, and I’d be surpirsed if you ever even copped a feel off one

    Novaseeker the churchian writes/preaches, “It’s because you don’t. You don’t *deserve* anything.”

    HEre Novaseeker is echoing the sentiment of the fmeinisst fminests FED–that a man’s money, labor, and work is WORTH NOTHING, wiythout the perimssion of NOVASEEKER and BEn LAMPS BEenrkae.

    Novaseker preaches on borthers, “You’re not entitled to anything just because you decided to work hard and establish yourself. You’re entitled, of course, to what that *directly* brings if you are successful at it — money, success, business relationships. The “indirect” benefits of that have been taken away due to the fact that women can support themselves very well now without your money directly, through a combination of their own money and tax-funded state subsidies. The ones who want your money in this culture are certainly not the ones you should be thinking about (and you do seem to realize that as well). Because women can support themselves economically quite well now, they select men on other bases.”

    Hey Novaseeker, when you write, ” You don’t *deserve* anything,” why aren’t you writing that to all the single moms on welfare with bastardz kidz, you dummy fucktard, instead of to the good men slaving away to fund that welfare?

    Again and again we see that the reason why men are losing their Natural Rights and Just Rewards for their Just Labor is because of haters/fucktardz like Novaseeker who direct all tehir hate (due to their low LAMP score) at their fellow brotherz.

    Hey Novaseeker, when you write, ” You don’t *deserve* anything,” why aren’t you writing that to all the bailed-out bankers receiving billions from the FED, you dummy fucktard, instead of to the good men slaving away to fund that corporate welfare?

    Why all the h8 for Michael?

    Novasekker the idiot writes, “The “indirect” benefits of that have been taken away due to the fact that women can support themselves very well now without your money directly, through a combination of their own money and tax-funded state subsidies. ”

    And check out Novaseeker’s HAMSTER!!! a MANHAMSTER!!! Just look at theis MANHAMNSTER sentence: “The “indirect” benefits of that have been taken away due to the fact that women can support themselves very well now without your money *DIRECTLY*.” lzozozlzolzoz Hey Novaseeker look down and let us know if you see two Hamsters down there instaed of ballsz?

    Hey Novaseeker WHO THE F DO YOU THINK PAYS THE TAXES? And what do you mean that woman can support themsleves without your money *DIRECTLY*? What do you mean by directly? If your money passes through BEenenbernankesz bunghole as he drops it off the helicoppter which is another tax via the inflation tax, how is that not robbing form the common man all the same?

    Again Novaseeker, why all the h8 for the common man?

    The GOOD MICHAEL is realizing that the value of his money has been eroded by the berankficiation of the dollar and the bernankificattion of womenz.

    HOW DA FED HIDES INFLATION:

    da fed hides inflation in many, many ways

    frist of all, da government always lies about the true inflation lozozozl but you see it at the gas pump as day pump and dump your future wife in college deosuling and ebenrnkaifiying her

    A LOT OF INFLATION is hidden in your future wife’s buttonhole lzozlzoz

    with all da extra dolzlrz zlzozo day print dollars and fund feminism and sassockcing lessons as socking seminars assockcing instructions on da college campus where day can butthext and deosul your future wife and make her loyal first and foremost to da bottom line lzozozl da BOTTOM line lzozozoz da BOTTOM UTTHOLE line lzozozlzl programming her to seize your assets to tempt you into marriage, seize your assets and spy on you, and then forward all your emails to da FED alongside all of your assettsts ASS tests ASSsetts zlzozzzlz BOOTOTOM LINE BOTTOM LINE ASSests zlzozozllzozoz

    once upon a time a man couple support a family and a wife and kids and rise them proper moral decent lzozllzoz

    but now, due to da FED’s massive inflation which they hide in your wife’s buttonhole during secretive tucker max rheyme with godlmans sax secretly taped buttehxting sessions, she will be more loyal to da shopping channels and her sista’s and the CIA’s cosmo magazine zlozozzllzzol and unloyal not loyal to family, god , man, religion, and thus she will insatiate initiate over 80% of divorce as the FED whispers to her that she will get her uhusdbansds assetsts to fund future as socking as socking buttonhole cockas sessions that they addickecter adduced adDICKted her to in college lzoolzlzozo

    and da fed gets a gut

    as they must convert

    worthless less than zero fiat debt

    into physical assetttss

    by seizing property and lifer and liberty form da betas

    operating through their wive’s buttholios

    where they dhid allda inflation zlozozozlz

    DANTE and MILTON noted the same thing, so if you do not believe da GBFM, take it up with DANTE and MILTON asslcocen zlzzzl assclowns zlzozlzlzo

    lzozozozzlzlzlzozl

    wonce upon a time mens wents 2 church 2 find a good wownenez lzozlzlzloz to be a wife and mother and faithful honor cherish lzozlzzozlolzozlz

    today woemnz go 2 churrhc 2 find a beta or gammamale to pay for their three children forrm three fatehrs who pumped dand dudmped theier zazzez afetr asszzcockcing them lzozlzlzlzo

    lzozozozlzlzolzolz

    once uppoineez a time da dollars was backed by gold

    today it is backed by porn as emerikaz went off the gold/god standtdthedth and went onto da iron porn standadtdth lkzozozzlz

    HARVARD UNIVERSITY JUST INTRODUCED A NEW COURSE!!

    Upper-Level Feminist Business 401: During the semester we will learn how to optimize Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks, as we are buttcoked by “alphas” and then go forth into the corporate-state to buttcock betas out of their assettsts (buttcocking their asstettss so to speak lzozlzoz) buttcoki dem outta der assettts in divorce curt, entitle progapms, corproate sexual harrassment suits, and guilting betas and gelding them with the “pay gap” myth, all the while complaining about the glass ceieling even as we rise to very top of the fiat debt empire while da menz are unemployed and crusedhesd and enslaved bwloe zlozlzlzozozl. We will transfer teh assetts to the central banks and bernankifiers for teh centyral banks can only create debt-based fiat dollarz which are worth less than nothing, and thus need d awomenz movement to go forth and buttcock and guilt betas into working working working for a hope to lick our std-addled, strecthed-out bungholes lzozlzololzozo. We will examine why betas do not like this setup, and how we can shame them into marriage and slaving away in corproate jobs while we cock hold the alphas and cukhold da betas zlzololzlzlozozololzlzolz. homework will consist of getting buttcocked by a buttccker while mainitaing a roster of at least 20 beta oribters to reguallry buy one meals so that they will be well fed for the buttcocking later that evening. this will prepare tda womenz for bigger game, whnce they get betas to buy them homes and cars, and then dun future buttcockings with aplphas via alimony and child support lzzllzzlzozozozozo. sample exam questions will be, “what does tucker butthexter max wheym with? klzozolzolzolzo

  211. imnobody00 says:

    alcestiseshtemoa nailed it. But there is another mistake in the James argument.

    If on the other hand you find a 5 who has the values that you want, you will find that you really like a lot of things about about her, and her looks will suddenly become less important to you.

    I guess James is a woman because she is projecting the female behavior onto men. When a woman likes a man, his looks SUDDENLY become less important to her.

    MOST men don’t work this way. Attractiveness is very important to men. You don’t feel the same with a 8 than with a 5, no matter how nice the 5 woman is. It is not about arm candy or bragging to your buddies. It is that biology has wired us to love pretty women (where pretty is a unconscious tell of fertility).

    Some time ago, I had a gf who was a 5. The best gf I have had in my entire life. She was nice, nurturing, she gave me space, she made my life easy. She was affectionate, she was fun, she was loyal. She was with me in the worst period of my life. She understood me. But I didn’t feel it. Every time I looked to her I felt bad because I knew she loved me a lot but I didn’t loved her, although my life would have been easier if I did.

    Can a man date a 5? Absolutely! It is likely for a man to marry a 5. It’s not likely, because marriage is a way of craziness, as Mark Minter said. You have to be crazy in love to marry these days. It is difficult for a man to be crazy in love with a 5. Sad but true.

    How did this work in the old days? People got married young. A woman who is a 5 in their 30s is a 7 in their early 20s because youth=fertility=beauty. Men were virgins back then so this was the only woman they had. Then, when the years went by, a husband had bonded with a wife during their youth. So, after the Wall, he still saw her as the young beautiful woman he felt in love with.

    It is easy to bond with a 20-year-old woman, marrying her and then, seeing her pretty when she is 40. If you know her when she is 40, it is difficult.

  212. James says:

    @alcestiseshtemoa

    James seems to be repeating the lie that 9s and 10s have it in the double to triple digit partner counts.

    No, I meant that the 9s and 10s who go for Mr Tattooed Guitarist have high partner counts. Michael should not covet Mr Guitarist’s groupies, or use their choices as an excuse to reject less attractive women.

    Clearly there are 9s and 10s who have good morals, but they will be in even higher demand than other 9s and 10s. If a man is having trouble meeting suitable women, it is not a winning strategy for him to add more things to his wish list.

  213. robinbreak says:

    Z. says:

    “Also, why are you so looks obsessed? A 5 is not ugly, just average looking. Average can be moderately cute. With effort an average 5 can become an above average 6 or even your equal at a 7. There is no perfect person and we have to compromise somewhere because WE are also not perfect. It is the usual case that a woman dates or marries a man better looking than she due to female hypergamy. Your female 7 will be with a male 8 or 9. Your female 8 will be with a male 9 or 10. That’s just the way it is. So if you did get with a 5, that fits right within the paradigm. And she can anyhow make herself into a 6 or 7 with some effort, so there, you’ve got your equal.”

    This is ridiculous, and is the typical though of a woman.

    First of all, nobody in his sane mind would get a 5 in THE HOPE she’ll change into a 7!
    People don’t change, above all women. In order to change it will require them huge effort, which they will not put because they’ve got Micheal, the “prize”. Why should they get in shape now, that they finally achieved what they wanted? Most likely the 5 will become a 3, not a 7!!!

    Second, your hypergamy thinking goes like this:
    So female 6s are with male 8s.
    Female 7s are with male 9s.
    Female 8s are with male 10s.
    So the leftovers are female 9s and 10s. Who are they with? Are they ALL prostitutes and strippers? That, until 30 hits and they become 6s and 7s and marry the male 8s and 9s? LOL

    I am 100% with Michael.
    Micheal, please ABSOLUTELY DO NOT GET A 5. One thing is to get divorce-raped by a solid 9. At least you had few years of good sex and fun. Another thing is to get divorce-raped by a 5. OMG.
    But ,if you really want a family, you should think about expat.

  214. i was at dinner once at my LA/NYC 10′s grilfreindsz house and her dad asked a questionz.

    her dad said “the other day i was talking to our ministerz and he asked me if i knew what the number once cause of divorce and marital strife was. i guessed “lack of fiath?” and he said, “no–lack of money.” he expalined, “the minister stated that money and how much or little you make is the number one cause of marital strife issues and divorce.”

    i looked at my grifreind and she was nodding nodding nodding obediently nodding like a little puppy dog.

    den dey look at da GBFM to see what I thinkz on the matter.

    so da GBFM thinks about, puts his fork down, leans back an says, “well, money being the measure of marriage, i reckonz i am getting a pretty good deal, as i am fucking your daughter for free! lzozozoz”

    das right! When she is younger hotter tghter and fifty poundsz lighter dan da money man who will some day claim da GBFMs sloppy esecondz secndz, sanctifed by the good churchian minister minister in a CHURCHIAN cermeeoniez zlzozlzlozzo after which she will eatz wedding cakses and gain 400 poundz. zlzozlzlzo

  215. greyghost says:

    Being financially independant and sexually attractive are two different things. In a sane society they are the more the same. A stable educated man that acheives in a civil society couldn’t get a sniff of good looking pussy. Not how it works. Once Mike gets the I’ve earned it by ythe rules out of his head he will do fine. One thing he should always remember he can never be his beta self with a modern woman ever again. He in his relaxed normal state is honest and hard working. That will not just “no be enough” for a modern wife it is not even what she is attacted to. yeah she’ll take your money and work ethic through CS division of property and alimony hell yeah but she damn sure won’t gina tingle for it. Not in a way to give you the appreciation and feeling of being loved and not alone you are looking for. Women don’t do that any more, good prostitutes do but women that “love” would never let themselves be a doormat like that wedding vows or not. That is just the way it is. There is no wife to be had because by law she doesn’t have to earn you good will the government will just take it from you and gun point. (women don’t love they gina tingle) Think of an ex husband having as a divorce decree custody of the kids and exwife must come over to the house every evening to entertain the kids and fuck her exhusband to his satisfaction or she is a deadbeat subject to arrest. how can any woman gina tingle for a beta male chump playing by the rules when she already has the same arrangement in the law for herself. Laws of misandry once again kill the conversation.
    My advice after thought and other inputs from other commenters is for a man in mike’s position is to appraoach and talk to fine pussy (women he feels based on appearance to be desirable) as a normal practice. Learn game and female nature and learn to pull pussy without money. Change attitude from seeing her as a wife but rather as getting your fertile years time with a woman you find attractive. For long term lonelyness don’t worry about it you get some game skill and and stay away from marriage you will never be lonely. You will always be able to pull ass just get into the game with a different frame of mind. Start with there is no wife to be had.

  216. greyghost says:

    Btw one more thing for Mike.
    If it looks to out of your norm to change your emotional human needs chage the efforts of what you have. Work on a way to make your career profitable as an expat to a place where it may be possible to have a wife.

  217. robinbreak says:

    sunshinemary says:

    “I have already begun gently instructing my thirteen-year-old daughter that if she hopes to marry, then it is marriage first and everything else a distant second after that. It should be a girl’s number one priority after pleasing the Lord. I just don’t care anymore how politically incorrect that makes me even among other Christians. A husband and children are so much better than some dumb job where people really couldn’t give a rat’s butt about you. There isn’t a career in this world with enough power, money, or glamour that I would be tempted to trade my husband for.”

    Sunshinemary, you’re one in a million. Literally.

    I remember my 22yo Canadian girlfriend when she started law school. She was telling me that her own mother (50yo, very good looking, married with a conservative family man lawyer), was suggesting her to pursue her career, and forget about boyfriends (me).

    Why? Because NOW (at 50!) she REGRET she doesn’t have a career. She is getting bored of her husband, that “is not there for her”. Family, friends, wealthy life and 1M$ house is not enough for mommy to be happy. Mommy doesn’t get how lucky she is. She never raised a finger in her life, all the wealth came for the husband, that busted his ass in the law firm. So, because of her unhappiness she is projecting her own daughter down an unknown path of ultra-feminism career-woman…

    The message was very clear: “A family doesn’t make you happy. Since your happiness is the most important thing in the whole world, chose another path. Go for the career. Don’t make my mistakes!”

    My ex-girlfriend is jumping from a firm to another now, with 3-4 months contracts, in the hope she’ll get hired somewhere. In a couple of years she’ll hit the 30 wall.

    Wondering if in the meantime mommy is trying to get divorced…

    If even the old generations are so damaged to push their own progenies in that hyper-feminist direction, we’re busted.

    There is no hope.

  218. Novaseeker says:

    If even the old generations are so damaged to push their own progenies in that hyper-feminist direction, we’re busted.

    There is no hope.

    There’s always hope in terms of what you can do for yourself. For the broader culture — not much any one person can do about that.

    The older generations are complicit because they helped create the thing to begin with. People in their early 50s were in their 20s 30 years ago in the late 70s and early 80s. That was the prime time height of second wave feminism in the culture. It’s in their blood. If anything they’re more feminist minded than the young people of today are, who tend to be more cynical and jaded about everything.

  219. mackPUA says:

    greyghost – “Think of an ex husband having as a divorce decree custody of the kids and exwife must come over to the house every evening to entertain the kids and fuck her exhusband to his satisfaction or she is a deadbeat subject to arrest.

    How can any woman gina tingle for a beta male chump playing by the rules when she already has the same arrangement in the law for herself.

    Laws of misandry once again kill the conversation.”

    Brilliantly stated … @michael think of it this way …

    Marriage law is basically a bunch of criminals, marriage today is nothing more then organised crime

    Marriage is nothing more then government robbing you blind, thats ALL government via marriage is today

    Marriage is the GREATEST criminal act perpetrated today

    Marriage hands a woman a gun pointed at your hand, to allow the government to steal everything you own

    IF you wanted proof how corrupt & ruthless the U.S government, is, marriage will destoy you … your wealth, your finances, it will destroy everything

    Dont you understand, IF you refuse to be a consumer, like all women, they’ll come after your home IF YOU TRY & CREATE A LEGACY FOR YOUR WEALTH

    They DONT want you to try & create rich wealthy legacies, they dont want rich wealthy men raising a family, which is why surrogacy or ex-pat is the only route for men …

  220. Kate says:

    In magnanimous moments, I try to remember that my mother’s advice or lack thereof was only intended to help me and that she was working from her own set of limitations and problems. I consistently feel LUCKY to have bumbled my way into knowledge so at least I have seen both sides and have something of value to pass on to my daughter. And I know to share my experiences with her now (in a limited way, of course) instead of waiting until after the fact to try to impart wisdom. My mother became an architect in the sixties: the only woman in her graduating class to survive the grueling program. She had a ten year full-time career, marrying towards the end of it, and then resigned when my sister and I were born. She was thirty-five when she had me. But, what she completely failed to realize is that the generation that inherited her generation’s feminism doesn’t get to hang up the towel after ten years and be a stay-at-home mom. They somehow managed to “have it all” but ruined it for the rest of us. After ten years I was able to downgrade to a less prestigious position in my school, and I actually could not be happier about it. It means less work, less stress, and more personal time. Now I can actually face doing another ten to twenty. #thanksfeminists

  221. robinbreak says:

    @Michael

    Beware of what you want, because you might get it.

    I don’t know if you ever had a serious girlfriend. With persons like us, they become “bored” very easily. There is always a bigger cock, a bigger bank account, a more muscular man, a more confident men, a more powerful and social man to make their vagina tingle. You are not enough. YOU WILL NEVER BE. A woman, by nature, IS NEVER SATISFIED.

    I can see you falling for some 24yo HB8 or something. Be aware, most of the women have their own agenda. And it might not be clear from the beginning, like it is for your Confident Fives.
    The worse that can happen to you, is to get married to one of those young HB7+, to get divorce-raped later on.
    A divorced man is a completely destroyed man, above all if he’s a high moral hard-working man, like us.

    I know for sure I would not recover from a divorce. Not being able to see your children??? FUCK!!!After you busted your ass for them and your wife, doing the sometimes 120 hours a week, or 48 hours shift??? I will suicide, or commit some other border-line illegal acts. Or get into heavy drugs and die of overdose.

    AND WHY??? Because there was a bigger cock two blocks away from the house, that FINALLY made her feel HAPPY?

    A WOMAN CANNOT BE TRUSTED

  222. robinbreak says:

    greyghost says:
    “Robinsbreak
    Don’t you worry about that thing with the bitches. you have your head on straight. BTW your sex life is more fruitful than most of the sex lives of “happily” married fathers.
    First thing you need to do is in your heart and soul know this one thing “you are a bad mutha fucka” for being who you are. To get where you are with out being stuck with some bitch or paying out CS etc. etc. Look you think your life sucks with out women. Oh man to be able to say that and mean it. Consider yourself lucky and always believe you are a bad mutha fucka and life is good. Don’t see women as nothing more than heterosexual pussy sex.(which is actually all they got) Learn and study game with your head held high proud of who you are with a sense of humour. Google Chateau Heartiste and spend some time on his site and others that understand game. get involved with the conversation too. Never ejaculate inside a women unless you are in her ass, otherwise shoot it on her back (my favorite). Any chick says she is pregnant get a blood test,bcause. you will be a target of cuckold due to you having you act together. When you are ready for a child get a surrogate. meanwhile have fun and say I’m a bad mutha fucka every time you see yourself in a mirror. (reflections in windows too)”

    Haha thanks for the kind words.

    For now I have a couple of plans in place.

    Plan1: become a LesMills instructor. With few practice, less than a year, I can be a certified instructor. That will allow me to get dominant in my gym. LesMills classes are FILLED with young HB8+ girls. The instructor position will give me social proof. I will have a class of 50+ women, to whom I’ll TELL WHAT TO DO AND THEY’LL DO IT. Without questioning it. Like monkeys. It will make their vaginas tingle. I will then proceed to fuck as many hot young women I can. I will not get a wife.

    Plan2: China. I will move to China or South East Asia and get a wife there. She’ll be submissive, young and smart. In China I am a huge catch, compared to Canada. And I will put everything in place to not get divorce-raped.

    These are the only two options I am considering right now. Bachelor life or expat.

    I don’t see the surrogate thing in my cards.

  223. Z. says:

    Michael, “If this is the deal I should have never even tried to better myself or assist in creating a new software program or anything else I have ever done its all for nothing because let me tell you something (you have got to be a women) deep, down inside one of the main driving forces is sex. The promise that if I just slug it out one more day at the office I could have a beautiful young wife to kiss in the kitchen (or anywhere else) when I get home. Your saying I dont deserve that.”

    Novaseeker, “It’s because you don’t. You don’t *deserve* anything. You’re not entitled to anything just because you decided to work hard and establish yourself.”

    +1,000

    You have an entitlement complex Michael. Beautiful young women who share your values are not just going to fall into your lap. They are not going to walk up to you on a busy street and start chatting you up. Not even a single one of them. Life isn’t the movies where “love just magically happens”.

    Practically the same effort you put into building your business you will have to put into finding a wife. If you are not willing to do that, well, I wish you luck in “manifesting magical mystical love”.

  224. Dalrock says:

    @Novaseeker

    Income is fie — for you. It isn’t important for attraction for women in the 21st. Not. Important. So knock that off the list. Being in shape is good, and has gotten you the attention that it has. But unless it is coupled with Game/dominance/social-presence, it’s going to underperform.

    I’m afraid it is even worse than that. His income and wealth will create an incentive for divorce. This is where all of the advice to just import a foreign woman is so dangerous. Getting married is easier with his income/wealth, but staying married will be harder. This is an insane system, but to not acknowledge the insanity is extremely dangerous. It might be that he can find better women overseas, but this is at best only part of the solution.

    The other part of the error here is that he is comparing different markets. Women are selling sexual access in exchange for alpha tingles in one market, and selling (very often hopelessly defective) “commitment” on a different market. This is a very similar error to the women who expect to marry a high status man because they were able to attract such men for ONS, flings, or even “long term” relationships.

    @Michael

    And I don’t have the energy to learn to perfect a fake social act to for pussy. That’s what you’re advising isn’t it?

    This isn’t an accurate description of Game. A more accurate description would be social skills, but in the context of marriage it is also about having a healthy masculine frame of leadership. Depending on what your goal is, the focus of your game will be different. If you want to become a player, then you will want to focus on how to be the stand out alpha in bars/clubs, etc. If you want to attract the women at church, then you will want to focus on standing out in that environment. Either way a core concept is leadership, and the fact that leadership is both desired by women and attractive to them.

    You say you want to marry a woman. This means you want to be a husband. Being a provider isn’t the only thing a husband needs to bring to the table. This is incredibly un PC now but to be a proper husband you must lead your family, including your wife. You are free to marry and reject that leadership role, but understand that you can’t change the fact that 1) Wives crave leadership from their husbands (even while they fight against it), 2) Women have a natural tendency/urge to “test” the leadership of their men (fitness testing). They can exercise some control over this (see the repeated biblical instruction to wives to submit to their husbands), but 3) Women are taught to resist the leadership of men in general and husbands in specific, and 4) The legal structure of marriage provides constant incentive to your wife to kick you out of the household, and our culture will continuously egg her on.

    Making the problem more vexing, 2-4 are all at odds with #1. If you don’t provide the leadership she craves, the constant beckoning by the whispers and the family court will be far more likely to encourage her to at the least withhold sex and at worst commit an act of legally and socially endorsed treachery. Yet the destructive power the state and culture (including the church) would encourage her to use should she become unhappy makes leading her orders of magnitude more difficult. She experiences your leadership when you fail to buckle to her irrational demands (fitness tests), but her irrational demands come with a very real potential destructive force behind them. There are different schools of thought on how a husband should respond to this outright insane system. Some believe that the bulk of the “glue” holding the marriage together should be the man’s “Game”. I disagree, but either way Game is an important tool both in helping you lead her and in helping you assess potential wives more accurately.

    It’s starting to look like a last hope. I purchased a Russian accelerator language course to try and improve my odds. The total cost from A – Z will be upwards of $20,000. But I could careless about the money my problem is keeping my business running in LA while day is night on the other side of the world. I’m still trying to figure out how to do this without using methamphetamine pills. Need to get on this as soon as possible. Just never have time. I have a friend in Serbia who says the same thing.If I could find some kind of dating site for FSU women living on Los Angeles that would be a good start too.

    What you are trying to do is skirt the need to learn game in order to get married to a suitably attractive woman. What you aren’t considering is that getting married to an attractive woman isn’t the hard part. Finding a woman who actually wants to be a wife, and leading that woman as her husband is the hard part. As I mentioned in my response to Novaseeker’s comment, your wealth is actually a liability in this case. It makes divorce far more attractive to whichever woman you do end up marrying. You don’t need less game because you are successful, you need more game because of your financial success. I sincerely wish this weren’t the case, but it would be cruel to deny it when discussing the issue. What you want to do isn’t impossible, but it is far more difficult than it should be.

  225. Z. says:

    They call me Tom, “As to compromising on looks… compromising on looks doesn’t tend to improve the quality of personality. The mythology says that there’s some inverse relationship between beauty and personality… but the truth is that ugly people can be just as unpleasant as beautiful people. The majority of average, and even slightly above average, looking women have all the demands and expectations that one might expect of a 10….

    So telling a man to compromise on looks if he wants to find a good woman is an absurd suggestion.”

    Right. The difference is that there are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more 5s in the population than their are 10s. His chances of finding a 5 who shares his values and is also interested in dating and possibly marrying him is much, much, much, greater than finding the elusive 10 with the same qualifications.

    He’s only a 7 himself so he can’t really expect to shoot higher than 8. I’m willing to concede that 5 may be too low, so his target group should be female 6-7s. That is, if he REALLY IS a 7. People have been known to both under and over estimate their own looks.

  226. Z writes, “He’s only a 7 himself so he can’t really expect to shoot higher than 8. I’m willing to concede that 5 may be too low, so his target group should be female 6-7s. That is, if he REALLY IS a 7. People have been known to both under and over estimate their own looks.”

    Do you crazy F88%*%&%rs really thnk the whole world operates on some sort of ridiculous #’s system?

    What about senses of humor or musical talent or paininting ability or wirting ability lzozzozooz

    everyoee hath been eberannankififed.z lzoz

  227. GKChesteron says:

    @Dalrock,
    You say you want to marry a woman. This means you want to be a husband. Being a provider isn’t the only thing a husband needs to bring to the table. This is incredibly un PC now but to be a proper husband you must lead your family, including your wife.

    Which is why some of the androsphere whining is missing the forest for the trees. It isn’t an “act” anymore than our desire for women to take care of themselves is an “act” on their part. We are _members_ of an archetype and when we move outside of this type we become unattractive just like _women_ become unattractive when they don’t act like women.

  228. Dalrock says:

    @GKC

    Which is why some of the androsphere whining is missing the forest for the trees. It isn’t an “act” anymore than our desire for women to take care of themselves is an “act” on their part. We are _members_ of an archetype and when we move outside of this type we become unattractive just like _women_ become unattractive when they don’t act like women.

    Agreed. However, I would point out that there isn’t a group out there which is doing this better, or is even making a serious effort. The church doesn’t teach this. Pastors are terrified of offending the wives in the pews. This would be an excellent criticism for one outside the manosphere to use against the sphere if there were a group outside the manopshere seriously teaching this. As it stands, it is still a very fair criticism by some in the manosphere of others in the manosphere.

  229. Dalrock writes, “f you want to attract the women at church, then you will want to focus on standing out in that environment. Either way a core concept is leadership, and the fact that leadership is both desired by women and attractive to them.”

    How does one stand out in today’s churchian environment? Would you consider MArk Drsicoll Driscoll as “standing out,”and thusly deserving of mucchoz pussyysspsususy.

    I always thought of church as church–not a hookup club lzozozozzzlozzooz

    Jesus never taught, “If ye wish to get some pusysysysysysysysysy ye must first stand out in the church, so do not enter the closet when ye prey, but do it where ye can make da womenz and single mom’s butt go tingzlozozlozozozzlozozozozozooz.”

    lzozzoz

  230. Dalrock says:

    @Z

    He’s only a 7 himself so he can’t really expect to shoot higher than 8. I’m willing to concede that 5 may be too low, so his target group should be female 6-7s. That is, if he REALLY IS a 7. People have been known to both under and over estimate their own looks.

    I don’t see any indication that his standards for looks are what is getting in his way. Less attractive women and especially obese women aren’t generally more worthy when it comes to marriage. He is also in the top 10-15% of men when it comes to fitness and financial success. With a bit of game (just not doing the wrong things he has been taught) he could greatly increase his attractiveness to women.

    Women typically give the absolute worst dating/marriage advice to men, and you are right with the pattern urging him to just settle for a less attractive woman. If he were a 30 something woman who couldn’t find a husband, this would probably have some merit (but comes with a different set of risks).

    But carry on. There is a mound to be rebuilt and there is no time for the worker ants to dawdle.

  231. Work hard to find a woman, work hard to provide for a woman and family. Work hard to build a life and have a house, car and a nest egg. Yes, do all of that. But don’t you dare do it for a slut or a woman over 25. Do it for a woman who respects, honours and loves you. If you cannot find that, DO NOT GET MARRIED.

  232. Retrenched says:

    Women don’t have to sleep with betas, but men don’t have to marry alpha widows or past-their-prime carouselers either. It’s a two-way street.

  233. mackPUA says:

    robinbreak – “Plan1: become a LesMills instructor. With few practice, less than a year, I can be a certified instructor. That will allow me to get dominant in my gym.”

    lol, thats more pro-active then most pua’s, beats quing for a stable full of skank every weekend, plus you get paid to checkout … erm train hot chicks …

    I’d still advise you to learn some game, even if you ex-pat, even submissive orientals shit test & crave drama

    Btw the best way to prevent shit testing chicks, is to control the conversation … women talk mostly inane crap anyway, so this part will come easily

    Always lead & control the conversation … women see conversation as a reward, a sign of social dominace, which is why you have to control & lead the conversation at all times …

    Otherwise they end up shit testing you, if you dont dominate & lead all the conversations

    Never listen to a woman, she should be listening to you

  234. mackPUA says:

    @robinbreak

    “Why? Because NOW (at 50!) she REGRET she doesn’t have a career.”

    She regrets not having a strong boss to dominate her & drool over …

    Most men never realise the sociopathic levels of ass-hole & loosers women crave …

  235. Z. says:

    “Do you crazy F88%*%&%rs really thnk the whole world operates on some sort of ridiculous #’s system?

    What about senses of humor or musical talent or paininting ability or wirting ability ”

    Precisely why I told him not to be overly picky wrt looks and go for a 5 or 6 who shares his values and is interested in him.

    “I don’t see any indication that his standards for looks are what is getting in his way. Less attractive women and especially obese women aren’t generally more worthy when it comes to marriage.”

    No, but they are much more populous. Which means there is a greater chance of him meeting a 5 who is worthy than it is a worthy 9 or 10 since 9s and 10s are rare in the populous.

    ” He is also in the top 10-15% of men when it comes to fitness and financial success. ”

    If 170K, in the City of Angels no less (where a mediocre house costs 1 million), is the top 10-15%, then this country is in deeper economic shit than I had previously imagined.

  236. mackPUA says:

    @Z

    What part of 5′s are usually more sluttier & bitchier then 8′s & 9′s dont you understand ?

  237. Hopeful says:

    I guess feminist don’t teach balance. Why is it either traditional woman or career woman? A woman can’t do both? I mean, if you’re so empowered, feminists. Now you probably won’t do both well, so it’s important to prioritize. In today’s economic times, a 2 income household is almost necessary, no? Are you guys against women working outside the home at all?

  238. SlargTarg says:

    If 170K, in the City of Angels no less (where a mediocre house costs 1 million), is the top 10-15%, then this country is in deeper economic shit than I had previously imagined.

    $170k/year is greater than 93% of all earners in the US.

    Plus he is in his 30s and most of his “competitors” in that income range are significantly older.

  239. Novaseeker says:

    In the US, sure, but the comparison set is not the US, but greater LA.

    In the DC area that is a good income, but not too much above average so as to be wealthy. We have a couple of counties here where the median household income is 100k, so that’s comfortably above that, but not enough to be considered rich by any means. Rich here is a household income of 600k+. I suspect that if homes in LA are so expensive, it’s a similar situation among the higher earners in the area. Sure, it’s a lot of money compared to the people living in Compton, but it isn’t a lot of money compared to the others who have a lot of money who also want to live in areas around people who have similar professional backgrounds, social class and incomes.

  240. sunshinemary says:

    @ Michael
    If you are interested in more of what Novaseeker was talking about regarding LAMPS, you can read donalgraeme’s essay, which was a guest post on my old blog:

    The Five Vectors of Female Attraction to Men – Guest Post by Donalgraeme

    I would also recommend reading donal’s blog:
    http://donalgraeme.wordpress.com/

    He discuss attraction, dating, and marriage issues from a Christian man’s perspective, so his thoughts might be of interest to you.

  241. GT66 says:

    @Michael “I don’t want to be alone at 70 like I am now.”

    Don’t you think that’s a little selfish or at least cowardly? I mean unless you and your partner were to die in the same instant, *someone* is going to live alone and die alone for some period of time.

    Personally, my impression is that you placed the purpose of your existence on a myth and are, unfairly I might add, making a woman responsible for your life satisfaction. You don’t seem to need the money so I am guessing you work out of boredom and lack of any other purpose. What sort of life would a potential spouse have with you if you remained all work and no play with nothing else to talk about but “what happened at work today?”

    I understand the desire for companionship (to whatever extent a man wants it) and family, however, as according to a recent study showing that only 40% of men that ever lived reproduced, plenty of men have had to find meaning in their lives without heaping the responsibility for it onto wife and kids.

    Accomplish what you need to but accomplish it for yourself and the satisfaction of your life, not to build and extensive tackle box with which to lure a woman.

    Every soul as a burden to bear, yours seems to be placing too much importance in others to make you feel complete. And please don’t take offense at my post, I just want to point out that your happiness or lack thereof, is of your own making and you can change that if you choose to. Only you have that power.

  242. Ton says:

    I’ve never gotten a boner over my girls musical talent. I approached because she has an epic rack and pretty smile.

    Fair certain I’ve never been rejected because I lack artistic talent of all kinds Things are in the grove or have crashed and burned before the topic ever comes up

  243. Bluedog says:

    @Dalrock, re: May 11, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    So – taking everything you wrote in the referenced segment and accepting it without argument as true, and adding it to my own scenario where I am divorced and raising my kids … it only serves to REINFORCE what seems like an inescapable conclusion to me: re-marriage is unthinkable. It is simply not in the cards. I have created a family, I’m raising one, I’m putting everything into it and am committed to the success of the enterprise. I would love to be coupled, but it’s just implausible, like my dream condo in Antarctica.
    But the point is: what puzzles me working through all of the comments/discussions here and on SSM is the commitment to precisely that: getting married. Several people in comments working on it, aspiring to it, hoping for it, longing in suffering without it, and more people helping them.

    I am not disagreeing with any of this – there are all personal decisions and issues – I’m just puzzled. I do not know how it can be possible to maintain “male leadership frame” when perforce of law, you raise your children in your home, at her whim. Whim.

    So – I would just be interested to see some discussion of that from some of you. Knowing what you know, why do you want to marry? Or, knowing what you know, why do you counsel men to marry? Or, why do you provide advise on how it **might** work?

  244. Dear Bluedog,

    Brilliant comment! “I do not know how it can be possible to maintain “male leadership frame” when perforce of law, you raise your children in your home, at her whim. Whim.”

    Yes the main problem of the “men’s movement” is that like an ostrich, they are TOLD to keep their head in the sand, and ignore the legal reality imposed by the FED. And so they bicker round and round in circles, without ever once even attempting to change the legal context. In fact, if you read above, Novaseeker preaches that one cannot, and must not, make a difference, which counters the very spirit of Christ.

    I look forward to hearing more Bluedog.

    Best, GBFM

  245. sunshinemary says:

    @ Bluedog

    I don’t counsel men to marry. I don’t counsel men, period.

    However, if a man has decided to marry, it behooves him to be aware of the masculine traits that women find attractive. The reason why you may be seeing a number of men around here looking to marry is because they are Christian and adhere to Biblical sexual morality, which means no sex outside of marriage. They want to have sex, therefore they want to get married, but they are having a hard time finding suitable women to marry, which is why they are discussing it.

  246. tweell says:

    Why counsel men to marry? The old reasons still apply.
    1. It’s the best environment for children. If you want kids, you want the best for them, right?
    2. A good marriage is the nearest thing to heaven that exists on this earth. Everything has its ups and downs, but good times become great times and bad times become not so bad.

    It’s a lot harder to achieve that ideal nowadays, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you should give up.

  247. Z. says:

    Hopeful, “I guess feminist don’t teach balance. Why is it either traditional woman or career woman? A woman can’t do both?”

    I think most American women are dong both. I’ve read articles that state SAHMs are on the upswing but I don’t see it in my socio-economic bracket, where even the SAHMs are running home businesses.

    ” In today’s economic times, a 2 income household is almost necessary, no?”

    Yes.

  248. whatever says:

    Novaseeker the Lawyer(salesman) speaks:

    In any case, the first step you need to overcome is getting past your sense of entitlement, and the idea that you deserve a certain kind of woman because of what you have built in your life. You don’t. You deserve the sort of woman you are capable of attracting in terms of what this market demands. The old script is dead. You have to adapt to the new one, or find other options, but stewing with a sense of entitlement will get you precisely nowhere.

    Talk that price down buddy. You a good talker at explaining why certain people need to value themselves as low as possible. Notice you seem to talk yourself up to.

    Good job. Keep selling buddy. Always selling.

  249. donalgraeme says:

    Michael, if you read this, why don’t you stop by my blog real quick and leave a comment. I have a few ideas on how you can help yourself out in your quest (because that is what it is) and they won’t fit well in comments here.

  250. donalgraeme says:

    Meant to say that I would e-mail you using your WordPress ID, but if you want to converse by comments there that works too.

  251. kios says:

    I agree that if Michael was 10-15 years older he could have easily got an 8 or 8.5. My cousin is a tall slightly geeky man that was a successful architect and he attracted a woman that in her prime was easily an 8.5, and she stayed with him even when he lost his job during the early 90s recession and was making a 1/3rd of what he used to. Of course he managed to build himself up again but the point is that he wouldn’t have had a chance with a woman like that today.

    I’m a short balding guy with an average job, and in feminist Aus i generally attract 5′s with no effort, as well as 6′s, but not as often. If i put effort in i can get a 7 and occasionally higher. When i was living in Greece i never dated less than a 7.

    America is the worst place for me, along with Aus, Canada and the U.K. Most Italian and Greek men i know married 7s even if they were 5′s. hell i know a 4 thst has a 7 for a wife and he isn’t rich either.

    Women bond with men in those countries more than they do in the Anglosphere where relations between the sexes are almost purely transactional.

  252. greyghost says:

    Bluedog, GBFM
    Outstanding. Every article and every thread ends with the laws of misandry killing the hope. There is no wife by law. With out the laws of misandry micheal would be married to a woman that was happy to have him with him ding just as he has following the rules of beta hard worker. I’ll say again Dalrock is a cultural leader for after the war so people will have a way to know how to live.Otherwise it is just pie in the sky surviving the laws of misandry.
    Bluedog you have shined a flashlight on the elephant in the room.

  253. Z or T or whatever letter she chooses is just another cog in the mound rebuilding machine. She’s a sluttart and doesn’t know her arse from her face. She lives in a bubble and it will be fun to see it popped.

  254. Novaseekers ‘entitlement is bad’ screech is precisely why you shouldn’t listen to the man up and marry rants. Just let them be. The idea of a sense of entitlement being bad is when that sense of entitlement is based on thinking you’re owed something whilst not having worked for it. A feeling of entitlement is perfectly fucking natural when you have worked for it. Civilisation would not exist were there not a natural connection between working and being rewarded. If society lies about what the reward is for working hard, you end up with a society that is bound to crack. ‘Adapting’ to this new ‘society’ that is going to crack is not a means of survival, you might survive a few years but in the end it will be for naught. That society will crack. The only ‘adapting’ that needs to be done, is to determine the ways and means of working that get you the best outcome possible. Therefore, avoid the sluts, the man uppers and the ‘you don’t deserve squat’ monsters. You deserve precisely what you put effort into.

    The more effort you put into finding a wife worthy of the sacrifice of marriage, the more you increase your chances. The best you can possibly do, is to focus your energy into paths that increase your prospects. It as always been such, whether it be finding work, finding fulfillment or finding a mate.

    If a woman cannot increase her attraction filters to include what is needed to keep civilsation going, she is inevitably useless as a wife and mother. You don’t need to worry about attracting such women, they are by definition the women that you need to avoid…

  255. mackPUA says:

    @feminist hater & every1 else recommending marriage …

    Marriage today is an act of evil criminalism

    Women will NEVER respect marriage, if it allows women to rob mens wealth

    Plus theres ZERO penalties for women raping & robbing men

    Also why are women like SSM, counselling women to marry, cant you christians see marriage ENABLES the divorce industry

    Counselling women to marry IS A SIN

  256. Opus says:

    I wonder why it is that people (well some people) are always intimidated by lawyers. ‘Whatever’ quotes from Novaseeker, but having read the quote a few times I fail to see that Novaseeker apart from being helpful and practical is anything other than entirely correct – water always finds its own level. Singledom is not a badge of shame, unless you internalise that. I tend to have been most successful with women when the last thing on my mind was scoring. LAMPS is an interesting acronym, except that many successful guys are seriously deficient in L,A,M,P or S, or more than one of them. Some guys only have to walk into a room for the women to collectively be pulling off their knickers; there is little a guy can do, to be in that league, if he isn’t already in it, and would you really want to be? Too much attention can be very wearing, as women will surely easily testify.

    I think part of the difficulty for men is that we have an inbuilt desire to provide and protect, and when we find that that is not easily possible, assume that the fault rests with ourselves – pretty much the way when your girlfriend drops you, you agonise for hours about where you went wrong and how you could have done better – that is until you see her with the local douch-bag. [For the Operatically-minded Janacek's Jenufa sets up this very situation: Steva is devoted to Jenufa but all she has eyes for is bad-boy Laca, the guy who got her pregnant and then abandoned her.]

    Sympathetic as I am to Dalrock, the dynamics of couples vary, and there are plenty of successful marriages where a lap-dog husband is married to an assertive wife. You are either attracted to someone else or you are not and vice versa; it is only later that you begin to rationalise whether she is a 5 or a 6 or a 7 or above. Looks are – on one level – the least of the things one has to worry about.

    Here endeth the lesson.

  257. mack, it’s a tricky one to be sure. I am Christian and therefore can only advise sex within marriage. That leaves me only able to advise Christian men to choose their woman extremely carefully; and to be aware of the divorce scam. I cannot advise them to become PUAs. I hope you can respect the reason for my advising marriage for Christian men, it’s not for the scam of divorce to be perpetuated but rather to at least allow Christian men the chance of a rewarding marriage and a sex life.

    I advise marriage but I do so only under very certain conditions. If those conditions cannot be met by the woman you are interested in or the community you are in, do not get married.

    Further from this point. Christians, or at least those that call themselves Christians, that are stuck in the clutches of the modern era ‘divorce is holy hamsters’ scam’, need to be avoided. In truth, I advise men to try to live life without the need for sex. However, that may be impossible, and thus the best I can do for them, is to advise an extremely careful approach to marriage, women and the scam that divorce has become.

  258. mackPUA says:

    “I agree that if Michael was 10-15 years older he could have easily got an 8 or 8.5. ”

    Wrong, theres plenty of 8′s & 10′s who WANT to marry michael

    Its the inane laws which allow women to rob men blind, which prevents women from getting gina tingles from a guy like michael

    You can live in the most technically advanced society, & women will always prefer marriage to a man

    Its the horrific criminalism & evil of the divorce industry which devalues marriage

    There is zero appeal or value in marriage for women, IF IT horrifically destroys mens rights & their wealth

    Women GORGE on PRE-SELECTION

    IF government pre-selects men to have ZERO rights in marriage, women will pre-select men to have lesser value, vastly reducing their ability to get turned on by the marriage

  259. mackPUA says:

    @FH

    “rather to at least allow Christian men the chance of a rewarding marriage and a sex life.”

    How can marriage be rewarding, if it allows women to destroy men?

    Why dont you christians get your heads out of the sand, & TELL the men & women THE TRUTH ABOUT MARRIAGE

    All you’re doing is GAMBLING ON MENS LIVES, thats all you’re doing

    How many men do you expect to find the magical unicorn, who wont rape & destroy him in a divorce?

    Why dont you Christians work with the MRA’S & CAMPAIGN YOUR CHURCHES to get marriage back

    Christian women ARE NOT THE ANSWER

    Tell men & women the TRUTH

    They will NEVER be able to marry, unless the horrific criminal laws are REPEALED

    Until the criminal anti-marriage laws are destroyed, christians are ENABLING THE DIVORCE Industry

    Christians HAVE TO TELL men & women to wait, until the marriage laws are fixed

    When the law allows women to rape & destroy men, Recommending & counselling to marry IS A SIN

    It’s an ACT OF EVIL for men & women to marry in todays anti-marriage, male hating society

  260. mack, there is no winning society back by using MRAs, the feminists and politicians and churchians will dig their heals in. They will destroy everything before they lose their grip on society. Unlike the men of the past, these leeches are unwilling to compromise, it is always ‘half of what you own, now, and none of what we own’. Just like commies, they take little steps, always forwards, always progressive. The only way to beat them is to take them out. They are evil.

    Christian men and women cannot wait forever to have a family. It doesn’t work. If we don’t get married, we don’t have sex, which means we don’t have children, which means we don’t have a future to invest in.

    I shun the modern world of hedonism, that means that the only woman I would even consider marrying would be one who shuns it too. With perseverance, like minded people can build a community that will be able to protect itself from the outside world and governments by being extremely careful about who they allow in to their group. That inevitably means war. For the State will not accept such discrimination. The mission is to wait til governments no longer have the ability or resources to invest in stopping every case of citizens going their own way.

    When we truly have the ability and will to once again be a self-determining country of people, then freedom will be restored. My mission is not to work with MRAs or PUAs by keeping the shit of this society going but to absolutely destroy completely any notion of feminism, male rights or any such stupid rights from being in legislation. Until we as a people have the absolute right to discriminate against those people and institutions that we believe are against us, freedom means nothing.

  261. greyghost says:

    mack, there is no winning society back by using MRAs, the feminists and politicians and churchians will dig their heals in. They will destroy everything before they lose their grip on society. Unlike the men of the past, these leeches are unwilling to compromise, it is always ‘half of what you own, now, and none of what we own’. Just like commies, they take little steps, always forwards, always progressive. The only way to beat them is to take them out. They are evil.

    MackPUA,FH you have just dicussed why I am an MRA.I am still trying to figure out how to do it.
    The whole involuntary childless spinster term was meant as a way to cause pain with out blood shed. The PUA, peter pan MGTOW was just a way to say no. Women have the vote ,women vote for misandry every time. Women like abortion that in itself says it all (thay will KILL a child in their own selfish interest period) No one with that as a foundation should ever vote.
    We can see the horror coming because we are thoughtful and aware. But imagine the blue pill man that never sees the truth. These are the murder suicide types. American is currently in an arms race with the government out of fear of the government. Knowing full well with out an armed populace anything goes. The laws of misandry themselves violate the very constitution we were all taught to believe in. (Thomas Ball wrote about before he killed himself) See comments on any yahoo article when guns come up. The IRS just admitted to targeting citizens for audit based on politics. The only hope and what I cling to and add to public comment is The US military combat arms is mostly or not far from it white hetero male. The most hated human beings in western society is the one needed keep the beast safe. Just think they will be tasked with killing fellow americans that will basically be fighting for their freedom from misandry. Fighting to keep the system we have spent the thread trying to help two good productive working men find a wife and make a family. This is madness. This isn’t my blog to do, but to see what it looks like you need to go to Syria, Mexico etc to see what SHTF or collapse looks like. It is horrible. There is a web site (SHTF…?) that is based on the break down of Yugoslavia when communism fell.
    We need to change the laws before before the bliss of blue pill ignorance wears off. If enough thoughtful people see what we see maybe it can be done with out blood shed.

  262. Greyghost, Yea, I wouldn’t call myself a MRA but I understand their reasoning. They have a need right now that they do fulfill. However, my belief is that the State should not be involved in such spheres of influence. The State’s interference gives one party far too much power and control. That is why I dislike the constant interference by feminists and MRAs to get the legislation changed. It just goes on and on. Don’t they understand? Legislation is just a cover. In the end, the State merely chooses which legislation it will enforce. But if people were given their own self-determination, meaning the ability to govern and police their own communities, they would have direct influence and direct enforcement of those issues that are most important to them.

    Now of course people would say, ‘What about abuse?’ To which I say, ‘Has the government and states around the world not shown you that they are able to abuse society far more than smaller communities? Is it not blatantly apparent that those with extreme power and wealth can directly interfere with politicians, to the extent that they can control every facet of your life? Is it not blatantly apparent that, even with the abuse that smaller communities have, it is far better to have a direct influence over your life that smaller, more manageable communities have, than to entrust your life to the State and the banksters?’

    I will say this though, MRAs seem far more willing to compromise with a Traditionalist like myself. Feminists merely want people like me to die!

  263. Bee says:

    @Dalrock,

    “This is where all of the advice to just import a foreign woman is so dangerous.”

    Getting a foreign bride is no guarantee. Some guys have success with a foreign bride but many do not. Some foreign brides are cagy gold diggers. A friend of mine married a woman from SE Asia. She is lazy, won’t clean, won’t cook, insists on takeout or restaurants for every meal! She won’t work outside the home either. She spends most of her time shopping and spending.

    Any woman you consider marrying needs interviewed, vetted, and observed around other people.

  264. “Opus says:
    May 12, 2013 at 4:55 am
    I wonder why it is that people (well some people) are always intimidated by lawyers.”

    who the hell here is intimidated by lawyers? lawyers sentenced christ and socrates to death. is that why you worship them?

    “‘Whatever’ quotes from Novaseeker, but having read the quote a few times I fail to see that Novaseeker apart from being helpful and practical is anything other than entirely correct – water always finds its own level.”

    is that why Opus don’t bang anything over a 5?

    “Singledom is not a badge of shame, unless you internalise that. I tend to have been most successful with women when the last thing on my mind was scoring. LAMPS is an interesting acronym, except that many successful guys are seriously deficient in L,A,M,P or S, or more than one of them. Some guys only have to walk into a room for the women to collectively be pulling off their knickers; there is little a guy can do, to be in that league, if he isn’t already in it, and would you really want to be? Too much attention can be very wearing, as women will surely easily testify.”

    who are all these whores pulling at their knickers? is that how you see women? pulling their pants down when dudes walk into the room?

    unless i miss my guess, you and novaseeker are mangina churchian lawyers who don’t believe in god, nor christ, nor NATURAL RIGHTS, nor MAN’S EXALTED LAWS, and thus you both worship at the altar of gina and butt tingelzllzozzozozoz.

    fellas–the opuses of the world are the source of the decline, as they bowed down before butt tingles and then told you to do the same.

  265. Luke says:

    All the talk about marriage being impossible now for men are off the money.
    Saying the country must change all the thousands of misandrist laws and regulatory agency rulings, or even have a civil war first, are way overblown. All that has to happen is for enough men to believably tell enough women that they would make frivorce unprofitable, and then follow through should she pull the trigger. That means:
    1) not paying one dime in child support/alimony, no matter what any court says or the personal price paid by the man;
    and
    2) having previously (ideally premaritally, but certainly pre-separation) set up the family assets so she can’t abscond with much if she does frivorce. I am NOT referring to premarital contracts, but to leasing property/vehicles instead of buying, savings hidden where no ex or court agent can find them, when possible developing an employable skill set that’s easily used as self-employment (rather than having to work in easily-trackable large corporations), etc.

    Let a few hundred thousand wives frivorce and end up longterm eating cat food or back in their parents’ house, forever, and watch the pendulum swing back on marriage in the U.S., no matter how many CongressEunuchs kowtow to N.O.W.

  266. @Michael
    I’m not a feminist loving PUA, so I will say this: You absolutely deserve a young pure and loyal wife. That is what you D E S E R V E. Because that’s what GOOD men deserve. Unfortunately, they are in very short supply.

    As a side note, being honest and hard working is Alpha ONLY when we also have the balls and ruthlessness to defend it from the moochers. Otherwise, we are just slaves. And slaves are betas who are reduced to begging the thugs to let them keep their own production.

    A strong masculine man who is honest, hard working, and ruthlessly protects his assets from the looters and doesn’t put up with their manipulative leftist semantics games.

    How attractive would such a man be to a no skill woman (all of them) who is starving in a gutter, because she can’t call on her armed government thugs to steal it from you? How submissive would she be? How humbled would she be in the presence of such a man. How many tasks would she perform in order to earn your favor?

    Modern women don’t see PUAs as “better men”. They see them as their property, just like all the other men. The only difference is they use that property for different purposes. Err live in a matriarchy

  267. @Luke
    Protecting the Family Assets:
    1. A Trust Corporation, in the name of the children (or eldest son), receivable on his 28th birthday. The CEO of the Trust Corporation is the Husband/Father.
    2. A house mortgage funded by a Christian Credit Union, with a clause that there is a breach of contract if the couple ever devorces, and the house then becomes property of the Credit Union. The Credit Union then awards the house to the non offending spouse at the sole discretion of its advisory council.

  268. Bluedog says:

    Thanks to everyone who responded to my inquiry.

    I especially like tweell’s “A good marriage is the nearest thing to heaven that exists on this earth” … that does seem to be the gleaming-shiny-thing-kernel of matter-antimatter that seems to possess enough latent energy to keep this discussion going on to eternity.

    SSM – gotchya. Wherever you may nuance your boundaries I think it’s fair to say that the dialog on your site sometimes takes that direction. I’m not faulting it.

    Feminist Hater, re: “Has the government and states around the world not shown you that they are able to abuse society far more than smaller communities?”

    …my first one-word answer is: Sicily.

    My second one-word answer is: Calculus. As in, “the ‘calculus’ we have lost all habit of practicing”. It’s everywhere in the operating culture where anything actually works – but seems to be working so well people take it for granted like the machinery in their iPhone.

    It’s a discussion for another time and place, but I’ll hang post on my shingles to say: we all have a stake in the state and in the future of the state. It is a legacy handed down to us by our forebearers that we all prosper for and it is one we are wise not to take for granted when we consider what energies we’ll spend so that we have anything to hand down to our children. I’m not content myself to “enjoy the fall”. To get anywhere though we’ll need two alchemicals in short supply: calculus and organization.

    That all said – I appreciate the problem and I have compassion for unmarrieds who wish to be married. I have never-married friends and I am always having “the grass is NOT greener” conversations with them, but I do stop and realize that there are ways I can really savor my recreation time that they cannot, because there’s no question in my mind about the moral legitimacy of how I’m spending my life, raising my kids. To be without that is a void, indeed.

    greyghost, re: “shined a flashlight on the elephant in the room” … thanks, I like that.

  269. dalrock and readers, dunno if you’ve run into this blogger but thought you might like his post http://thepatriotperspective.wordpress.com/2013/05/11/polygamy-marriage-equality-and-male-disposability/

    my best
    Linda

  270. greyghost says:

    Luke
    Your ideas are a great way to avoid a nothing to lose collapse. The laws are still in place so it is just a work around. The whle laws of misandry feminine imperative must be broken. That is why I’m so big on a male birth control pill. It wouldn’t require good beta males to be unproductive thugs to have the needed effect. It takes a while to to burn off those 20 years of gfertility women have (15-35) Now if the male pill was available today due to the effects of friction and inertia of cutural trends the 22 -25 year olds as a whole are on trouble. The older types will be lucky here and there.
    A civil war will fix nothing. The people driven to violence will be fighting for power and freedom with the blue pill idea that leads to a happy family life. As mike and robinbreak have shown it means nothing. The whole time not one person will say they are fighting for a stble life with a wife and family. But they will kill and die for the lie to have the things that they falsely believe are what it takes to have a wife and family.

  271. mackPUA says:

    “Unfortunately, they are in very short supply.”

    How about the criminal & evil divorce & marriage criminal law, turns ALL women into divorce raping scum? …

    How about the criminal & evil divorce & marriage criminal law, turns ALL women into racketeers & extortioneers & black mailers?

    ALL WOMEN use their children & CPS services to hold men hostage, ALL WOMEN use the government to hold their marriage hostage

    All marriage & christians who dont tell men & women the truth about marriage, are all a pack of sinners

    Marriage today is nothing more then a thinly disguised death sentence …

    Whats even worse, the christians & traditionalists & conservatives’ve shown their true colours, EVEN FACED with fascist & all out mass theft & rape of men by the government & women, christians & traditionalists have NO respect or awakening to men getting ass raped BY THEIR OWN WOMEN in court

    A 56% divorce rate MEANS 56% of SLUTTY CHRISTIAN WOMEN DESTROYING 56% OF THE MEN IN YOUR CHRISTIAN CHURCHES

    A 56% divorce rate means, EVERY CHRISTIAN woman has illegitimate children BEFORE MARRIAGE, a 56% divorce rate means EVERY CHRISTIAN woman in YOUR CHURCH will divorce & ass rape their husband in court

    Marriage is dead, its been dead for over 15 years …

    Marriage is AN IMPOSSIBILITY

    The ONLY WAY to resuscitate marriage is to REPEAL THE LAWS which CAUSE THE DIVORCE RATES IN THE FIRST PLACE

    When something like marriage turns into AN ACT OF EVIL, an act of grotesque injustice, it becomes a sin

    THESE ARE YOUR WOMEN behaving & enabling crime

    UNLESS the christians & their churches raise an OUTCRY against their families being destroyed by divorce law, marriage will continue to be an act of evil

  272. Buck says:

    Bee says:
    May 12, 2013 at 9:53 am

    @Dalrock,

    “This is where all of the advice to just import a foreign woman is so dangerous.”

    This is very true. Where I work as a flatfoot, we have many eastern Europeans and assorted Latin origin types; I deal with living nightmares day after day…men who met and married foreign women only to have little miss snoogums get “educated” here in American and turn into panthers. It is stunning how well they know the system and DV laws. They all have lawyers calling cards or numbers pe-dialed into their phones. I dealt with a hot 26 yo Russian slut recently who arrived in the US 5 years ago. She now has a house, benz, tons of jewelry, support payments etc…and stupid men are lining up to enter this temple of doom. She is hot, yes, but 2 minutes of conversation and the words…”danger” are screaming at you!
    There is another case that has dragged on for 4 years: a lawyer who met a much younger Spaniard gal at the University. She married him and spit out 2 kids. This is one of those painted yellow lines down the middle of the house arrangements. Snoogums is getting free legal services from “his” law school class. I wonder if the student that helps her screw him over the best gets an A in class….He hired a gumshoe and found out that there is a society of gold-diggers who train women in the fine art of exploiting men.
    Men, please listen to Minter et al, marriage is a suckers bet, do not be stupid! Do you really think the foreign broads are somehow not in the female gene pool?
    A foreign woman in the west is a western woman…
    If you’re thinking foreign women, then move to a country that does not exploit men…can you say Sharia!

  273. Joe says:

    @Feminist Hater

    Christian men and women cannot wait forever to have a family. It doesn’t work. If we don’t get married, we don’t have sex, which means we don’t have children, which means we don’t have a future to invest in.

    I agree, but the Fed government doesn’t care. With our “open borders” policy all that is needed is to allow several million third world illegals into the country, grant them a pathway to citizenship, etc. and presto the children are there for the next generation. It’s a win-win situation for the illegals. The good beta males work their butts off to support the illegals through taxation and the churchians claim they are showing compassion.

  274. Opus says:

    I believe that GBFM will discover that Socrates was not sentenced to death by lawyers (should he ever read Plato or Xenophon) but by a Democratic Majority of the Citizen Voters of Athens.

  275. I’m really liking the conversations I’m hearing from Feminist Hater, MackPUA, and Greyghost. You guys are spot on.

  276. When we adopted universal suffrage is when real men gave up their power. Men were household. America was founded as:
    Each community was a confederation of patriarchs. And owning land in that community was your
    “shareholders stock certificate” guaranteeing you a stake and responsibility.
    Each State was a confederation of communities, and The nation was a confederation (federal), of states.

    Having universal suffrage is just as silly as a Corporation deciding that its going to let the general public have the same voting rights as shareholders. The very nature of government its power, and power is backed by violence. And violence is the sphere of men.

    Get a group of men together in some frontier wilderness, and they all agree they’re going to keep law and order. They are the ones putting their lives on the line to protect the community and their families. They’re the ones who are putting resources into the endeavor. So it is only natural that they be the ones to have a say in what they are willing to fight for.

  277. Martian Bachelor says:

    @nooneofanyimport

    Polygamy gets talked about fairly regularly around here. It’s already functionally legal — whether the “wives” are formally married or not, and whether they’re concurrent or sequential. The prospect of multiple mothers-in-law should be enough to scare some sense into everyone, but I digress.

    John Adams warned of the Despotism of the Petticoats which would ensue should we “repeal our Masculine systems”. We did, and that’s what we’ve got. Enjoy the decline.

  278. Micha Elyi says:

    We have a couple of legal points.

    … [Over here – England] Divorce was under the Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction which is why we present Petitions for Divorce with appropriate Prayers.
    Opus

    Two great peoples separated by a common language, we are.

    Are some who preside over certain courts in England still addressed as “your worship”? That practice, I’m told, originated at a time when the word “worship” had a much wider meaning than it does today, carrying the sense of the honor due to a divine being and the honor given to a person of rank or achievement.

    And I suppose by “appropriate prayers” you are referring to what we in most American courts variously refer to as pleadings or petitions – words that, like “pray”, mean “ask”.

    …‘hurting’ wonders what the Holy Roman Catholic Church thinks of pre-nups. I am not versed in Canon Law but I am surprised that the Church is able to deal with the disposition of Property…
    Opus

    With millions of Irish, Italians, and Poles whose Catholic ancestors came to America, the Church has pretty much taken over here. Heh heh. But in case you weren’t trying to tease us, ( English humor can be so deadpan.) I’ll just repeat the reply Novaseeker gave:

    I think he was asking whether that kind of arrangement would pass muster by the Church, or would it be used as a grounds for granting an annulment on the basis of defective consent/intent at the time of the marriage.
    Novaseeker

    Any pre-nup that anticipates the dissolution of the marriage by any cause other than natural death is seen by the Church as evidence of, as Novaseeker put it, “defective consent/intent at the time of the marriage”. And that could be grounds for a Church tribunal to find that a sacramental marriage never took place. After all, the sacrament of marriage requires free consent of the will of both the man and woman who wish to receive it. Not understanding what a sacramental marriage is getting one into impedes that “free consent”.

    So having a pre-nup drawn up “just in case we get divorced” pretty much makes receiving the marriage sacrament impossible.

    Because that is the most common reason people seek a pre-nup, as hurting wrote, “the Catholic Church generally frowns on prenuptial agreements”. Pete objected, mentioning the marriage contracts of European nobility back in the day, but let’s get real. The number of nobility who must consider reasons of state when marrying are quite few these days. Really. (Despite what I see on the covers of the gossip magazines and celebrity tabloids the females eat up, I don’t believe half the young couples in England are named Kate Middleton and Harry… something.)

    I had always previously assumed that all the Church can do is, under its own system is to decide whether a Marriage is voidable…
    Opus

    It’s that language thing again. ‘Void’ means it exists but has been emptied of content (or once existed but exists no more). ‘Null’ means it doesn’t exist at all and never did exist. From the teachings of Jesus the Christ – in this case the teaching that no man may put asunder (divorce) what God has joined together (married) – the Catholic Church knows that once a sacramental marriage has come into being it is not ‘voidable’.

    This is why some of Pete’s remarks are confusing to me; for instance, “severing… the sacramental bond – which requires an annulment” makes no sense. The Church cannot sever a sacramental bond – God made it, it’s His bond. (This, by the way, is why once baptized always baptized and once a priest always a priest no matter how disgraced in the sight of men a baptized Christian or priest might become.) An annulment does no such thing as “severing” – as I explained earlier.

    Now with all that said, let me describe one example of a Christian couple contracting a pre-nup agreement that would not necessarily be grounds for a Church tribunal finding their attempt to marry to be null. Suppose two Christians of means, a man and a woman, both with adult children wish to marry. And further suppose that each wishes to ensure that some portion of their separate property passes on to their own children if they should die before their spouse. A lawyer might find a pre-nup suitable for accomplishing this. Notice that this hypothetical pre-nup says nothing about a divorce and does nothing should a divorce occur.

    Pete’s advice about getting a lawyer is good. I’ll add that whatever agreement the lawyer draws up should be thoroughly reviewed by a canonist (canon lawyer) for any defects before being signed.

  279. “Opus says:
    May 12, 2013 at 1:27 pm
    I believe that GBFM will discover that Socrates was not sentenced to death by lawyers (should he ever read Plato or Xenophon) but by a Democratic Majority of the Citizen Voters of Athens.”

    lozozozlozozoz

    they were the equivalent of lawyers, just like the scribes and pharisees who sentenced jesus to death. just because they didn’t take the LSATs and butthext doesn’t they weren’t the legal sexpterts of their day. lzozolzoozozozo

    one can see
    the reason why Opus hates MAN’S RIGHTS
    and the CONSTITUTION
    is that their authors
    never took the LSATS nor attended
    one of his favored buttehxtual law schoolszz.
    but instead they read
    THE GREAT BOOSK 4 MENZ lzozlzlz

  280. mackPUA says:

    Aside from me being pissed off at head in the sand christians …. seriously finding a wife who wont ass rape you in divorce, is an insane suggestion!!!

    If you want to understand michael & robinbreak …

    Christians & everyone else need to check out M3′s article on confidence …

    Theres TWO problems with christian women today …

    The first is, christian women are Rejection Whores

    Feminism propoganda is a minor cause in creating Beta’s

    What TRULY creates beta’s, are the Rejection Whores …

    M3 describes it perfectly … men are never given the chance to develop confidence with women

    Precisely because ALL women are rejection whores …

    It’s the rejection whores, who’re creating the beta’s

    It’s the rejection whores, who’re THE frontline in men not turning into alpha’s

    As M3 puts it ….” What every woman fails to realize is that if they’re rejecting men left, right and center then they are part if the problem.

    Expecting confidence to simply spring up from the ground or thin air is absurd.”

    “As a woman, which part of the equation do you want to be? The one who helped build good men up, or soured them to run into the arms of PUA schools to pump and dump your ass down the road?

    Point is, if men are chasers and women are choosers, it follows that if women want more confident men, they need to be giving men a chance to build it up.

    And every time you reject a guy for his shoes, the shape of his nose, something minor he says, the way he chews.. or you just enjoy crushing men on first dates because you hate boys and throw rocks at them.. you’re the problem. Every time you make a snarl face or nuclear rejection, you’re part of the problem.”

    http://whoism3.wordpress.com/2013/05/06/confidence/

  281. Michael says:

    @ Dalrock

    Thank you for your accurate and somewhat scary response. In regards to accuracy, I am in fact, trying to skirt “game” by focusing on a Russian women. Honestly game seems quite pointless when applied to personal relationships. Relationships are about trust, honestly, transparency and love. So why the need for game? Game is bluff. Manipulation. Guile, deceit. Ploys and gambits. Bending the truth. This is what I do at work. It has no place in love.

    So, yes, I seek to skirt this. As well as land a traditionally orientated wife. Now I don’t want some ‘subservient’. I want an equal – but submissive, kind, feminine loyal wife. It’s encouraging every married Russian women I’ve met has been married 10+ years. One of my clients is from Ukraine. He is 34 years old and married to his wife 14 years. She says there are more girls than guys in Ukraine and Russia.

    I also looked up foreign marriage statistics. I was worried about getting hurt and scammed. B ut the statistics claimed 80% of all marriages where one spouse was a foreigner were still married since they began taking mail order bride statistics. I don’t want to lose everything though. So I would be forced to get a prenup. This of course, goes against the heart of marriage.

    @ Z

    “You have an entitlement complex Michael.”

    -I fulfilled my side of the deal. I did what society expected. I have worked hard. I am a good person. With good value. I would make a great father. I’m not asking for an 8, 9 or 10. I’m asking for 7 who works at the grocery store. I feel I deserve this. Yes deserve. When you have worked for something don’t you deserve to have the fruits of your labor, in a sense? If there is a famine and I scrimp and save my food, don’t I deserve to eat it?

    I don’t feel I have an entitlement complex in the modern meaning of the phrase. An entitlement complex usually pertains to someone who did not do anything to deserve, yet still feels entitled to collect said entitlement. Or as in the case with most modern, attractive (keyword: attractive) women parceled their youth away on the alter of 1) parties 2) clubs 3) bars 4) cock hopping 5) drama 6) multiple ‘relationships’ 7) spring break 8) Mardi Gras 9) sex-cation.

    They spent all their chips at the wrong tables. Why? For FUN of course. Now they are entitled to the men they REJECTED. That, my dear, is the definition of an entitlement complex.

    “Beautiful young women who share your values are not just going to fall into your lap. They are not going to walk up to you on a busy street and start chatting you up. Not even a single one of them. Life isn’t the movies where “love just magically happens”.”

    -I see that now. You are correct. I’ve put myself out there with young girls before. They always like the attention. I get the number. But then I don’t say exactly what they want to hear. I’m not able to tap dance. Make them laugh and entertain them. Or as this website says – make them “tingle”. So then they don’t return my calls or texts. They become invisible. They don’t have the courage to say “I’m not interested”. It’s more fun to let me call/text 4,5,6 times before I “get the message” and stop calling them. By that time I feel like an embarrassed FOOL. I never really know the reason I was not called back. Where they kidnapped? Did they die ? Did an asteroid fall on their head? Of course this is before I have a chance to show them my pad and prove to them I have something to offer them in a long term relationship.

    It’s hard to discern their values at first and bringing up these serious subjects is too serious a subject for them. Why? Because it’s no “Fun”. Don’t you understand. We are supposed to wait until after we’ve “f-cked” to determined our deeper values. Isn’t that way it works in this morally defunct society now?

    “Practically the same effort you put into building your business you will have to put into finding a wife. If you are not willing to do that, well, I wish you luck in “manifesting magical mystical love”.”

    -No. I can’t do it. It’s too hard. It took me years of struggle just to get where I am. I cannot ptu that same effort into finding a wife. Only option I can see is to settle for a Confident Five, or skirt it by going overseas. The first option is not an option.

    -Dasvidaniya

  282. Novaseeker says:

    -No. I can’t do it. It’s too hard. It took me years of struggle just to get where I am. I cannot ptu that same effort into finding a wife. Only option I can see is to settle for a Confident Five, or skirt it by going overseas. The first option is not an option.

    Well that’s entitlement right there.

    It’s as if when you graduated from law school, you expected to be able to make money regardless of how much effort you put into it, because otherwise it is too hard. Yes, work is hard. And as I said above, you deserve kudos for achieving what you have done in your market. But finding a wife is hard, too (as Dalrock says, harder than it should be). It requires work and effort, because it is a serious endeavor. You’re not entitled to result Y that comes from process X because you worked hard at process A and actually received result B that comes from process A. Result Y doesn’t come from process A. You need to work at process X to get it. If you don’t want to do that, expecting that you deserve it anyway, as you seem to feel and some of the idiots who have posted in this thread also seem to think, then you have an entitlement attitude — not because you haven’t worked “in other areas”, but because you haven’t worked at the precise process you need to work at in order to get this result. You’re not entitled to get the result of a process you haven’t worked on, just because you did work hard on another process (and gained the benefit of it in terms of the output of that process).

    Looking overseas for a woman is fine if you are going to be living there. Bringing a woman here is a big risk. Stats are self-serving on that. And in any case, you need to see how the women in Moscow and Kiev go on before you draw any conclusions. Hint: I have been over there several times, and yes the women are feminine, but they are VERY bottom line. VERY bottom line. Even in Russia. If you bring her to the US, all bets are off, because she is running a huge risk of conforming to the local herd. You are trying to make a short-cut, as Dalrock rightly said. If it works, more power to you, but realize you are really rolling the dice.

  283. Norm says:

    All it takes is 5% of the population to change things. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t only 5% of the population kick the Brits out in the Revolutionary War. More than 5% of men are refusing to get married which leave many women single into their old age. Good news, invest in cat food companies.

  284. Ton says:

    Get married in the church; tell the state and it’s contract to fuck off

    Lawyers… the more words, the more lies. Lawyers whole job is lies. Never trust people who make their living with words. That includes preachers and the like

  285. z. says:

    ok then

  286. Z. says:

    Ton says:
    May 12, 2013 at 9:28 pm

    “Get married in the church; tell the state and it’s contract to fuck off

    Lawyers… the more words, the more lies. Lawyers whole job is lies. Never trust people who make their living with words. That includes preachers and the like”

    If it includes preacher then why even get married in a church? Church marriage will not absolve you from divorce, child support or lawyers.

  287. Z. says:

    Michael,
    “Dasvidaniya is a 2008 Bollywood film released on 7 November 2008.[1][2] The name of the movie is a pun on the list of ten things to be done before death made by Vinay Pathak, and is derived from the Russian phrase до свидания (do svidaniya), meaning good bye.[3] Shy Amar Kaul, played by Vinay Pathak, lives a nondescript life with people oblivious to his existence. One day his doctor tells him that he will die within three months. Realising that his time is limited, Amar makes a list of things he wants to do during his life, and sets out to do them.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasvidaniya

    Apropos!

  288. Z. says:

    Michael, don’t give up!
    This never-married 40 year old spinster texted him on Sunday, met him on Tuesday, and married him on Saturday! If she can find true love, so can you!

  289. Michael says:

    @ Z

    Men and women are not equal. Only a women can be a Spinster. A man cannot be a Spinster. You can always find some anomaly or exception to the rule. So what. It proves nothing.

  290. Lots and lots of commentary here. One refrain with which I must agree is how unaware women are of their drop in dating market value after their mid-20s. This little fable sums it up well. You might enjoy it: http://www.lightlybraisedturnip.com/story-for-women-on-matchcom/

  291. Bios says:

    Why do Manosphere participants insist on a division between tingles and a desire for money? Haven’t studies demonstrated that women find rich men more attractive on the whole? That they begin to see their faces differently? Therefore, why be so quick to the reach the conclusion that they are just automatons who give you robotic fucks in exchange for money? I don’t think it’s quite as simple as that.

  292. Cautiously Pessimistic says:

    Michael – “Relationships are about trust, honestly, transparency and love. So why the need for game?

    Michael, I thought as you did, and it simply isn’t true. Not in a binary “either it is or it isn’t” sense. Trust but verify (at the very least, do the occasional spot check). While I still don’t think outright deceit should be practiced, there are times for selective honesty. Unrestrained transparency is a real killer. If you are unwise about how much you share with your wife in terms of what you’re thinking and feeling, you will effectively be giving her all the initiative and a great deal of ammunition to use against you. And when she’s in an emotional tizzy, she will use anything she can. Even the expression of your love can be a relationship killer (i.e. putting her on a pedestal). All the traits you listed are good, but not sufficient, and potentially crippling depending on how you express them.

    When I got married, I was thinking along the same lines you are. I started looking for blogs like this one because I could tell my marriage was on a decline, and I couldn’t figure out why. I was doing all the ‘right’ things, all the things I’d been taught since childhood to do, and it wasn’t helping. In fact, it seemed to be making the situation worse.

    Now, I think there’s a big difference between married game and PUA game, because the goals are completely different. Marriage game is about sustaining a specific relationship by wisely managing how you interact, while PUA game is about playing the numbers game for a quick lay (of course opinions differ). However, there is some overlap between the two in terms of technique and basic theory, because in both cases your dealing with women.

    Anyway, even if you decide to manage your future relationship your own way, I wish you the best of luck, but I would ask that you be on the lookout for warning signs that the marriage is in trouble. DON’T put blinders on or ignore your instincts that something’s wrong. And if your way doesn’t work, remember there’s also websites like this one out here. The final vote’s not in yet, in fact it’s still pretty early, but it certainly seems to be helping with my own marriage.

  293. Tam the Bam says:

    I’ve had Russian women described to me (with suitable chagrin from the disabused party :) lollox) as “..half-female, half-magpie ..”
    Aaawk! Shiny! Want shiny!! Aaawk!

    Personally I’ve never bothered, as I find them (like most EEs) a weird combination of chauvinistically bossy and bestially ignorant (of almost anything, beyond the absolute superiority of all Slavs, at all times, in all of history), and sickly, simpering, saccharine (i.e. probably fake) ingratiation and intrusiveness.
    Gets on my nerves, and then some.
    I’d be forever checking if I still had my wallet. Or watch.
    But that’s just me.

  294. Ton says:

    CP, one of the best post ever

    True love…. what grown up speaks in such childish terms?

    In my state a man who lives with a woman, even if he knocks her up, has more rights to his property and children then the man who marries. If you live with a woman you never owe her alimony. And the state will put pressure on an unmarried woman to provide visitation for the father. ( they think it increases the chances a man will pay childhood support). And you will owe less in child support then as a married man.

    If you marry her, when she bails… you will owe alimony, or they will demand more child support to make up for a lack of alimony, and the state won’t do shit to her for denying your visitation rights.

    And I said a church, not have a preacher officiate. The preacher won’t officiate unless you have a state contract/ licence to marry. Preachers are another arm of the government, preaching the word in state approved churches in socially approve messages.

    Never under any circumstances, tell a woman vital information about your business, past or inner self. She will absolutely, 100% of the time use that intell against you in some future event. If you want a woman in your life, you must rule her with gentle strength ( sometimes not so gentle) and manage every aspect of your lives. You must control every engagement, control information flow… basically run your relationships like the army does a battle plan, but with less violence. Your woman will bitch about it, but she will be happier for it.

  295. robinbreak says:

    mackPUA says:

    “And every time you reject a guy for his shoes, the shape of his nose, something minor he says, the way he chews.. or you just enjoy crushing men on first dates because you hate boys and throw rocks at them.. you’re the problem. Every time you make a snarl face or nuclear rejection, you’re part of the problem.”

    This is unbelievably true.
    My whole confidence as a man was shuttered down by a University girl that continuously rejected me for three years in a row, for no good reason, despite all my trials.

    I was never able to recover after that. Every time I saw a girl that I liked, I was stuck… The fear of rejection, the inadeguacy feeleing accumulated during my University years, was so high that I wasn’t able to make a move anymore.

    Only now, ten years after, I am starting to get back in the Game, studying, understanding what was wrong, and acting upon it. Still the road is very long and bumpy.

    I don’t know if I’ll ever be a fully confident man. That is how much damage a single girl can do.

    It is unbelievable that girls actually like to shut down guys. But is the truth. Then of course they complain there are no GOOD MAN around… Well, ladies, you first destroy the man and then you expect him to put the pieces back together on his own… Do you have any idea how difficult it is?

    Woman’s nature is basically masochism and self-harm.

    I am slowly starting to give zero fucks about women. They ruined my best years. They ridiculed me and laughed at me. Rejected me in all the possible ways. Alway taking taking taking, and never giving anything back. They ruined the institution of marriage. They believe to be entitled to everything just because they have a pussy and workout a nice ass at the gym.

    Now they want it all. My money, my love, my life. Fuck them.

    All they’re going to get is my cock.

  296. the women in Moscow and Kiev go on before you draw any conclusions. Hint: I have been over there several times, and yes the women are feminine, but they are VERY bottom line. VERY bottom line. Even in Russia.

    True, been as well and concur. Some kind of taint is nearly everywhere unless you are able to attend literally villages in say northern Romania near the Moldavian border or just in the Carpathians in and around Transylvania, in Moldova itself, Bulgaria but not near the sea…near the mountains, central Poland….these are cool places to visit anyway, a bit more adventurous than the streets of capital cities but now you are REALLY talking about working to find a wife because you cannot just show up….its a myth.

  297. Opus says:

    I am going to leave the question of Pre-Nups to Novaseeker, partly because Pre-Nups are not enforcable in England, and partly because you are all in America, but I cannot resist answering his query. Yes there really are Judges over here who are addressed as ‘Your Worship’, and there are others who are addressed as My Lord (M’lud), and we even have some we address as Your Honour, which I believe is common to America. Not merely addressing these different Judges correctly but being appropriately attired (it depends on the Court as to how you are dressed) is what gives English Law its superior Justice. ;)

  298. hurting says:

    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/expectations-vs-outcomes/#comment-82557

    Pete,

    Thanks for your insight. As I understand it Canon 1102 would be the operative one in the case of pre-nuptual agreements and are allowable to the extent that they don’t impinge on the consent exchanged or imply anything less than permanency; I could see where a tribunal would find pre-nup language speaking to asset division in the case of a divorce as evidence of this.

    It’s too late for me (the nuking of my civil marriage was final a year ago). The U.S. RCC is woefully and I’d argue willfully ignorant of the true horrors of divorce.

  299. Opus says:

    On the subject of Russian women, I recall my Russian friend (who married an English woman) ruefully say to me as I was waxing lyrical about his country, ‘Opus, not all Russian women are like the females in War and Peace’. Sadly this seems to be true, but do you not think that robbing those countries of their women is a form of Colonialism? – and any man who does so deserves all he gets. Do you really think they would have any interest in you were it not for your Dollar?

    I therefore reccomend the episode from Little Britain Abroad, where Dudley Punt and his Thai Bride Ting Tong go to visit Dudley’s brother, at a camping site in Belgium where it transpires that the brother had ‘traded in’ his wife for a ‘younger model’, a Russian woman named Ivanka. ‘All the best brides these days are Russian’ he says. ‘Eighteen; a Virgin’ he continues ‘but dear; Two Hundred Quid!’ [$240]. It turns out of course that she is anything but and though she claims to be a model, Ting Tong comes across a Porno Video, entitled ‘Snow White does Seven Drawfs’ in a Belgian Porn Shop starring none other than Ivanka. ‘but I didn’t love them ‘ she says pleading with her new husband begging him not to throw her out of the Caravan. As for Ting Tong, he assumed that she was from The Philippines. She corrects him ‘No Thailand’, to which he replies, ‘ah yes they are much cheaper there’.

    I can only recommend the sketch [available on YouTube] but though exagerrated, like all good comedy it has more than a grain of truth. My friend’s ex-Soviet wife won’t speak to me , not since I jested that she was a Prostitute – obviously I hit a nerve there and came too close to the truth; and there is a Rumour – unsubstantiated of course – that the woman who runs the local Thai restaurant and who married an englishman who subsequently died may well have been responsible for his death. A Black widow indeed, so guys Prenez Garde – take care, no matter how slim and cute she looks.

  300. @Z
    Your snide little remarks are really starting to wear on my patience. Be a good little woman, keep quiet, and learn from the men.

  301. Luke says:

    Tam the Bam says:

    May 13, 2013 at 6:04 am

    “I’ve had Russian women described to me (with suitable chagrin from the disabused party lollox) as “..half-female, half-magpie ..”
    Aaawk! Shiny! Want shiny!! Aaawk!”

    Tam, that may be 100% true as far as it goes. However, there is a deeper evil about magpie behavior (if engaged in by women). That is how female magpies are notorious brood parasites, like whydahs and cuckoos. Brood parasite birds find another bird’s nest that has eggs in it, often kicking out some or all of the original birds’ eggs there. They then lay their own eggs there and fly away, with the likely result that the original bird pair will be hoodwinked into raising the magpie’s young as their own.

    Here are a couple of pictures of a warbler feeding a cuckoo baby:
    http://blogs.discovery.com/.a/6a00d8341bf67c53ef01538df37394970b-800wi

    and

    http://preview.tinyurl.com/cgbagp5 .

    The equivalent of brood parasitism for women to do is cuckolding their husbands with another man’s sperm (typically an alpha “bad boy” or other higher-status sort such as her workplace boss). The unsuspecting husband then spends decades of time and hundreds of thousands of dollars of his wages supporting and raising this other man’s child to maturity and beyond (to late 20s if kid goes to graduate school/law/medical school, say). The husband forgoes part or all of his chance to have a child of his own, a fraud men in survey after survey overwhelmingly say they consider worse than being gangraped in prison.

  302. Luke says:

    Showing just how common cuckoldry is:

    from http://web.archive.org/web/20050306032730/http://nomarriage.com/paternity_test.shtml :

    From the Guardian, 1998-07-14: “More than 25 years ago the consultant obstetrician E E Phillipp reported to a symposium on embryo transfer that blood tests on between 200 and 300 women in a town in the south-east of England revealed that 30 per cent of their children could not have been fathered by the men whose blood groups had also been sampled”.

    From the Dallas Morning News 1999-10-31: “DNA Diagnostics Center … an industry leader, says 30 percent of the men it tests prove to be misidentified. Similar numbers come from the Texas attorney general’s office, which enforces child support: About a quarter of the men who disputed paternity in the last year turned out to be right. In Florida, the proportion was one-third”.

    From the Sunday Times 2000-01-23: “David Hartshorne, spokesman for Cellmark, said that in about one case in seven, the presumed father turns out to be the wrong man”.

    From the Santa Barbara News-Press 2000-02-27: “For the population as a whole, “The generic number used by us is 10 percent,” said Dr. Bradley Popovich, vice president of the American College of Medical Genetics. [15 to 25 % has been determined from blood tests of parents and offspring in Canada and the US.]”

    From The Age 2000-03-26: “About 3000 paternity tests are carried out a year in Australia. In about 20 per cent of cases the purported father is found to be unrelated to the child. This figure is estimated to be 10 per cent in the general community”.

    From The REPORT Newsmagazine 2000-04-24: “The rate of wrongful paternity in “stable monogamous marriages,” according to the Max Planck Institute in Munich, Germany, ranges from one in 10 with the first child to one in four with the fourth”.

    From the Independent 2000-05-12: “… biologists Robin Baker and Mark Bellis … review of paternity studies also suggested frequent infidelity, with extra-pair paternity running between 1.4 per cent and 30 per cent in different communities”.

    From The Globe and Mail 2000-05-20: “Anecdotal evidence suggests these numbers bear out in Canada as well…. Maxxam Analytics in Guelph, Ont., performs approximately two paternity tests a day. And according to Dr. Wayne Murray, head of the human DNA department, one out of four men who come in pointing a finger at their spouse is not the biological father of the child in question”.

    From the Sunday Times 2000-06-11: “More than 250,000 tests a year are now conducted in America, and about 15,000 in Britain…. roughly 30% of men taking the tests discover that they are not the fathers of the children they regarded as their own. In the wider community, social scientists say up to 1 in 20 children are not the offspring of the man who believes himself to be their father”.

    From the Observer 2000-09-03: “One study followed couples waiting for NHS fertility treatment, where the men were ‘azoospermic’, meaning they produced no sperm and were totally infertile. The researchers found that 25 per cent of the women became pregnant before fertility treatment started”.

    From the American Association of Blood Banks – 2001-02-26: “The overall exclusion rate for 1999 was 28.2% for accredited labs. Exclusion rates for non-accredited US and foreign labs were slightly less at 22.7% and 20.6% respectively”.

    When the odds of divorce in America today are factored in, a man getting married and having children has roughly 1 in 6 odds, the same as playing Russian Roulette, of getting divorced and paying child support for a child that isn’t even his, PER CHILD.

    Knowing this, only an idiot who mainlines valium wouldn’t ASAP after birth get any children supposedly “his” DNA-tested for paternity. I did. (Yes, my legitimate kids are genetically mine.)

  303. James Madison understood protection of private property rights was a first principle in stating in Federalist #10 that the protection of property rights “is the first object of Government.” That comports with John Locke, whose social contract philosophy undergirds the American Constitution; he said: “The reason why men enter into society is the preservation of their property.”

    Not long ago, a wife’s sexuality was considered a man’s private property, as set forth in the Iliad, Odyssey, and Holy Bible.

    This meant that other men had no Right to buttcock nor fornicate with another man’s wife nor potential wife.

    John Locke notes, “”The reason why men enter into society is the preservation of their property.”

    That is a large reason why Michael engages in law and church. A vast part of the social contract is that he gets a non-buttocckd wife in return.

    The likes of Z, Novaseeker, and Opus scoff at this classical social contract and command Michael to “get over it” and “man up and mary the sluts,” as the new legal-minded, snarky rulers now run the pro-buttcocking, anti family, anti-property churchian church.

    zlzozozlzlolzz

  304. James says:

    @Michael

    Your values entitle you to a decent woman, and will help you to find one; but they do not entitle you to satisfy your biological instinct to seek a hot babe, while she ignores her own biological instinct to seek an alpha male. You are asking too much.

    Russian women are pretty when they are young, but they are among the hardest bitches in the world. If you want to find a wife from a poorer country, go for Poland, Slovakia etc which are more trust-based societies because they are on the correct side of the Hajnal line (i.e. are Catholic or Protestant, not Orthodox).

    Alternatively, look in Latin America, where there are plenty of suitable women. Also the time zone is less of a problem, and Spanish or Portuguese are easier to learn than Russian.

    I agree with Dalrock that finding a suitable wife will be relatively easy. Avoiding divorce rape is much more of a challenge. In the US, a man who marries and has children has a 50% chance of getting divorced. You might as well gamble your future on the toss of a coin.

    Emigration to a country with sane divorce laws might help, but don’t choose Russia: it is not a suitable place to run a business, unless you fancy paying bribes and eventually getting screwed anyway.

  305. James says:

    I believe that the LAMPS idea is correct, with power as the most important of the five elements.

    Women’s appreciation of badboys seems to be a part of women’s natural attraction to power, but one that has gone awry.

    You might argue that “women are attracted to X, so that their sons will also have X and be attractive to women”; but how did it come about that X is badboy status, and not red hair, or ability at archery?

    I suspect that, in our ancestral hunter-gatherer environment, the young men who pushed the boundaries would have been attractive because they would have grown up to be the next generation of chiefs.

    In the present day, the young men who push the boundaries are low-level drug dealers, thugs and other assorted criminals. Some of them do grow up and put their past behind them; but none of them will ever hold real power.

    It is a weakness of our species that women’s instinctual measure of male power is appropriate for people who live in bands of hunter gatherers in a hostile physical environment. In a cooperative, technologically advanced society, this measure is not only inappropriate: it is a disaster.

    It gets worse. Women are a slight majority, and so a democratic government will decide to reward women who follow their palaeolithic instincts, and will crucify their ex-husbands. If the children’s father(s) cannot be located or are broke or in prison, the government will tax decent families in order to pay for the children whose mothers chose men “unwisely”.

    The result is a steady growth of the criminal underclass. This is the central weakness of a democratic society with female suffrage.

  306. 8oxer says:

    Dear Liberty, Family, etc.:

    Be a good little woman, keep quiet, and learn from the men.

    The attention whoring cunts who show up here actually provide a good service, in illustrating female nature, proving exactly why men should avoid wimminz whenever possible.

    This one is the typical case study. Look how she goads the man she desperately envies, falsely seeing him as “the weak” man in the herd (men do not have a herd, as wimminz do, but her projections know no bounds). The wimminz singles out her target, like a parasite looking for a host to attach to, and begins to suck his energy and time away from him.

    This behaviour suggests what the wise men knew all along: wimminz can not ever feel happy, and their only pathetic accomplishment is to use the only thing they have (their sex) to humiliate the men they desperately wish they had been born as. The fact that this one is on the internet, pulling this shit as though her life depends upon it, suggests she has absolutely no sex appeal in the real world, and that any man she pulled this shit on in person would simply laugh at her, so she appears online where she can create the fake persona, the imaginary person it wishes it was, and use that to crush the sprit of the men it hates but can never leave alone.

    It’s Freud’s penis envy theory writ large, up close and personal. The vagina is the outward symbol of the hole which is in the soul of those who carry it. Sick shit, no? This is what happens to a dried up bag who spent the brief time she could have caught a man on narcissistic pursuits. Pity the poor man who gets involved with her…

    Regards, Boxer

  307. Glenbert says:

    “You have got to be kidding me. Perhaps you are ok with holding hands in public with a Fattie or Confident 5. I am not.”

    You guys are getting trolled hard. This person has taken the feminine imperative and changed the pronoun, perhaps to expose some sort of double standard. “Hey look everyone, these bro’s are willing to help a guy out, but if a woman were to the same things, well…”

    The troll is obviously missing the point. But it still makes for an entertaining read.

  308. mackPUA says:

    Michael – “Relationships are about trust, honestly, transparency and love. So why the need for game?”

    Because a relationship has nothing to do with any of those things … relationships are in fact all about how biologically correct you are

    The more effectively you hit a persons biological traits, the more successful the relationship

    People are biological first, psychological 2nd

    Most emotions & socio-contextual behaviour are simply a rationalisation of biology

    Case in point, women hate admitting they find a man hot, so they rename THEIR version of lust as love, or romance … when in fact theyre horny & dying for a good lay

    Women take the same deranged route to sex … ie men call prostitution as sex tourism … women call it a love tourism or romance tourism

    Women love covering up being dirty whores, by covering up their shit in puritanical moral bullshittery

    They dont want you to know Most women are filthy whores, unless slut shaming & men keep them in line

    Most women dont understand, rationalising a womans biology has severe drawbacks

    Rationalising reinforces a biological behaviour, via negative feedback, ie theyre unable to learn from the biological behaviour theyre trying to rationalise

    If women admitted they were sluts & whores, this would allow women to develop strategies to utilise their need to be a slut & whore optimally

    IF women wanted to develop a PUA for women, women will have to realise & reject the bullshit of society

    In much the same way men have to realise & reject the bullshit of society

    Women will also have to reject the bullshit of feminism, which is all about turning women into feral animals … basically feral attack dogs, with the capability to murder & destroy their own children & families

    Women will also have to reverse engineer, their deranged & sociopathic behaviour towards men

    PUA for women is all about realising society wants to keep women feral & sexually primitive as possible

    Being a Slut & a whore & banging loosers & alpha’s is how society scams women & destroys them

    The fact is most women today, are beta’s, being a slut & a whore is the female equivelant of being a beta

    Just like male beta’s female sluts & whores are invisible & hated by high quality men …

  309. Casey says:

    Here is an interesting article with a survey at the end, which speaks to the above problem.

    http://www.theloop.ca/living/love/love-bites/article/-/a/2368833/Still-looking-for-love-It-might-be-time-to-settle

    Indeed, it may be time to settle. The article also points out that a woman’s SMV is highest in her 20′s and the field full of good, eligible men in that same timeframe. It also alludes to the 20′s female desire to ‘cock-hop’ during these years. (Read: “Gina-tingle” instead of “spine-tingle” in the article)

    What I found most telling were the results of the survey, which I’m quite sure was read, and commented on by substantially women readers.

    The below are the % respondents to the below survey questions:

    “Yes, if you want companionship in your later years, you need to choose someone – even if it means settling for someone who isn’t perfect.”
    42.41%

    “No way! I’d prefer to stay single forever that be stranded with someone who is just “OK”
    41.49%

    “Maybe you can have both? How about an “open” relationship? ;-)”
    16.1%

    The majority of respondents are still clinging to unrealisitic standards OR would rather cock-hop the last of their fertile years….. and putting themselves out of the marriage pool (unwittingly & indefinitely).

    I’ll part with my own comment……

    “Beauty is the currency of a young woman…….she should be wise in the way in which it is spent”

  310. mackPUA says:

    lol … pea-cocking for muslims ….

  311. eon says:

    “Relationships are about trust, honestly, transparency and love.”

    Iron Rule of Tomassi #6: “Women are utterly incapable of loving a man in the way that a man expects to be loved” (rationalmale.wordpress.com/the-best-of-rational-male-year-one/).

    A woman is not capable of being in love, with a man, and definitely never in the way that a man understands being in love with a woman.

    For a few years after puberty, a young woman constructs her Ideal-Man Suit.

    Then, when she falls “in interest” with a man, he becomes the wearer of this Suit. As time passes, if it seems to be bunching or sagging, she will pull and tug to make him fit properly.

    Once he no longer fits her Suit to her satisfaction, her hamster will start to shriek: “OMG, OMG, IMPOSTOR, IMPOSTOR!”

    She will then rip her Suit from this criminal, this thief who stole her time and energy, and made her look foolish to the herd, by impersonating her Ideal Man.

    To the man, it will seem that she totally reversed all of her feelings and promises, and everything that he thought they had built together, in an instant, but that is not the case.

    Women are only consumers and never builders, and being a co-creator of anything is a meaningless concept to them, even with the alphaest of alphas. Attempting to build “with” a woman, instead of “for” a woman, is like trying to discuss philosophy with your dog, except that to your dog building loyalty to an actual being is meaningful and real.

    The situation is that she is still loyal to, and in love with, her Ideal-Man Suit. The only thing that has changed is that he is not wearing it anymore.

    Men who want a caring partner-in-life can become indifferent to women, resigned to the fact that there was never anyone actually there, once they see that what were presented as “soulmates” are more like amoral pets running a psychobiological long-con that is not of their choosing.

    Men have always been willing to cherish, support and protect women, while making allowances and excuses for their behavior, because they believed that, deep down, women wanted to be, and were trying to be, sweet, kind, caring, devoted, loyal, and so on.

    But eventually it becomes painfully obvious that women have no such basis, that they are even unable to comprehend truth, fairness and empathy, and that they are essentially sex robots with a bad attitude.

  312. imnobody says:

    @eon nailed it.

    The Iron Rule of Tomassi #6 is the red pill in a nutshell. I have been aware about the Ideal-Man Suit for long but I don’t had the right metaphor. Thanks for sharing.

  313. imnobody says:

    I meant: “I didn’t have the right metaphor”. Damn English.

  314. greyghost says:

    eon
    The nature of women is constant. Women can will behave in a sweet,caring,kind,devoted and loyal way if it is in their own solipsistic hypergamist interest. Solipsistic hypergamy is the motive even the kindest empathetic woman known is motived by solipstic hypergamy the same shit that motivates and ex wife to bring the ex back into court every chance she can, to cuckold, or get an abortion.

  315. Höllenhund says:

    re:greyghost

    “The whole involuntary childless spinster term was meant as a way to cause pain with out blood shed.”

    Causing pain won’t solve social problems or reverse social trends. Yes, for men it’s reasonable to try find a way to transfer the direct and indirect costs of societal misandry on women, especially feminist women. But don’t harbor illusions. Whenever women suffer for whatever reason, it’ll always be blamed on men, and women will use that as an excuse to validate their victimhood. That’s how all societies operate. There’s no way these problems will ever be blamed on feminists. Don’t count on that.

  316. Casey says:

    @ Michael

    I feel your pain, dating in your 30′s is not a palatable undertaking. I was thrust back into it when my wife died in 2001 at age 31, leaving me to raise our 2 year old son.

    It is certainly easy to feel bitter about the cesspool that is 30′s dating. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said in your posts.

    Women in western nations have an engrossed sense of entitlement, and dating websites are just another form of ‘shopping’ for them. (A disqualifier for me was any woman who would dare put down ‘shopping’ as one of her ‘interests’. Seriously?)

    The reasons for NOT dating are many……and it is maddening at times. I found myself routinely looked over for reasons I can only guess: my average height (5’9″), thinning hair, and the fact I had ‘baggage’….in that I had a young son, full time.

    I would describe myself the same as you have…….a 7, accomplished in health, fitness, & career.

    Pithy advice as it may seem, I would stop focusing on finding her; and find what you are passionate about. Your roster of accomplishments is admirable, and you would appear to be a fine mate on paper.

    If you can find something to speak passionately about, then you are automatically more of a draw.

    I had sworn off women entirely in spring of 2006……started flying lessons…..and parked the idea of finding a woman for a while.

    I also embraced my thinning hair by shaving my head; as there is more power in shaving it off than clinging to the remains.

    When my current partner entered into my life in early 2007, it was fireworks from the start.

    She is not perfect, but neither am I…….but she is an easy 7 or 8 out of 10….never married, no kids…..and slightly younger than I. (Although I am slow to quantify her in this manner, she brings much more than that to the table).

    There are still the challenges of Marriage 2.0……i.e. the unfair, inequitable & demonstrably gender biased risks pinned solely on Men; which Dalrock speaks to so learnedly.

    I understand your frustration, and get that you are probably a Beta guy that has good marriage potential.

    I also applaud you for not accepting a ‘carousellor’……which if MORE men made such refusal, the Feminist movement would (is) collapse in on itself.

    One of the first aspects of ‘game’ (if not the first) is you have to be willing to walk away from ANY deal; in life, love, & career.

    Let’s look at this another way…..do you really need $ 170k to get by on by yourself?
    OR
    Are you clinging to your earnings potential in the hopes women will wake up & see the great deal that you are as a husband?

    If so, why? You don’t need to earn that much, and can shake off those shackles at your own leisure.

    You don’t need to find a wife…..you need to find your passion.

    Stop trying to look good on paper, and start feeling good about yourself & your purpose.

  317. Casey says:

    As a follow up…….

    I did NOT find my current wife on a ‘dating’ website.

  318. greyghost says:

    Höllenhund
    Don’t kid yourself. As dalrock as repeated most of this female relationship behavior is based on a delusion that it will always be there. Its not what is said it is what is done. It may take years but the pay off or finale bail out of a feral woman is child birth. Western society is a mes and the females solution is more feral behavior. Also what women “think” is in their best interest is all that matters. Reality has no place. Also no one thing will change society we still need activist types that will push to remove the laws of misandry. I would just like to give the females a reason to not stop it from happening with their vote. Don’t worry I still own a rifle and studying up on civil unrest. Deep down I know it is going to take violence and horrors of huge numbers of deaths (in the millions) to turn this herd of empowered hamsters. It will most likely be my own children in that mess.

  319. Joe says:

    @Casey

    When my current partner entered into my life in early 2007, it was fireworks from the start.
    I did NOT find my current wife on a ‘dating’ website.

    Care to share where and how you met your current wife?

  320. Mark says:

    @Liberty

    Protecting the Family Assets:
    1. A Trust Corporation, in the name of the children (or eldest son), receivable on his 28th birthday. The CEO of the Trust Corporation is the Husband/Father.
    2. A house mortgage funded by a Christian Credit Union, with a clause that there is a breach of contract if the couple ever devorces, and the house then becomes property of the Credit Union. The Credit Union then awards the house to the non offending spouse at the sole discretion of its advisory council.

    Very good advice! As a professional investor I am very familiar with Delaware Trusts….use them all the time…as well as offshore holdings companies. I have never heard of a “Christian Credit Union”….maybe because I a Jewish is the reason?…L*…….Thank you for the post.I am going to do a bit more research on this!

  321. Mark says:

    @mackPUA

    “”Christian women ARE NOT THE ANSWER”

    The Christian women that I have dated are horrendous……not worth marrying…..or even dating!….a waste of time!….but then again,so are Jewish women.The Christian women that I know want to marry “up” and have a family….where the Jewish women want “MONEY”!!!!!…..plain and simple.I have seen this since I was a kid in the Synagogue.My mother cannot understand why I do not want to get married……but my father understands VERY VERY well! In fact,he has advised me since the age of 25…”don’t get married son….you will get crucified”……and he is correct! At the ripe age of 48 I can say that my father was correct.I have seen nothing but misery with my married friends.In fact,they are always telling me….”you are the luckiest guy I know….you never swallowed the bait and got hitched….you have no idea how much I hate my life”……..those are some strong words coming from friends…..and I feel for them.But,no one held a gun to their heads either!

  322. Random Angeleno says:

    A rather late commenter for Michael:
    Life has absolutely no requirement to be fair to anyone. None. At. All. Says in the New Testament that you should know the truth and it will set you free. But there is nothing there that says the truth will make you happy, make you contented, give you warm fuzzy feelings, etc. In fact, it may make you angry. As it clearly does in this case. The truth is what it is, it cannot be changed. Only thing that can change is your attitude toward it.

    You have come to recognize as many of us have the bitter truth that money alone is insufficient to attract the right woman, let alone hold her in marriage. So sorry that is the truth of the matter and it applies no matter where you go to find your prospective spouse. To be angry on learning about it is one thing. To remain bitter about it long term is a female reaction, it is very unmanly. Men set their baggage aside and move forward.

    Russian and Asian women who meet your standards may be easily available and amenable to marrying you, but they are also very bottom-line oriented and you must have your radar oriented correctly to distinguish this from her apparent submissiveness. If you cannot deal with your personal issues of entitlement and “deserve a woman” mindset, you will drag them with you into *any* new relationship with the result that your radar will be far less operational than it needs to be. Sure you can marry a foreign woman, but if you don’t address your own issues, God help you then cuz your fellow men sure can’t. I speak from the experience of meeting many eastern European women during my time working in the UK and Europe and Asian women during my time working in Asia. Finding a wife who meets your standards requires effort on your part. Possibly as much effort as went into building your career. That effort should not begin with you checking out foreign countries and women, and buying language software, it should begin with you looking in the mirror at yourself. My suggestion: start with something as simple as looking for and eliminating behaviors that mark you as a clear “beta”.

    As Dalrock says, you work hard enough at it, it’s relatively easy to get married, however it is still much harder yet to *stay* married in today’s environment of easy divorce. Fail to do the work on yourself and your marriage will almost certainly fail. I have seen this dynamic play out over and over again in WM/AW and WM/EEW pairings both here in the US and abroad. So sorry that is the truth that makes you angry and say “why do I have to change anything about me?” Sorry Michael, wrong attitude, that is whining … I say to you, stop whining, don’t be that chump! You’re definitely not in the right place mentally, everything you write says ” frustrated chump!” about you. Strongly recommend you peruse Athol Kay’s writings at Married Man Sex Life. Good luck, I wish you well.

  323. Gilgamesh says:

    @casey
    “and the fact I had ‘baggage’….in that I had a young son, full time.”
    But try turning down a single mom and her thug babies and you get a bunch of other human garbage screaming “man up!” while refusing to take her skanky ass off the streets themselves.

  324. Mark says:

    @robin

    “”I am slowly starting to give zero fucks about women. They ruined my best years. They ridiculed me and laughed at me. Rejected me in all the possible ways. Alway taking taking taking, and never giving anything back. They ruined the institution of marriage. They believe to be entitled to everything just because they have a pussy and workout a nice ass at the gym.””

    Now they want it all. My money, my love, my life. Fuck them.

    All they’re going to get is my cock
    Great post!…………you are a star!………..don’t ever shed that attitude!

  325. Ton says:

    I no longer date church girls. There is no upside to it.

    Ghost, my main reason for leavening the usa is to let my children and one day grand kids to skip what’s coming.

  326. Casey says:

    @ Joe

    I met her among friends in a chance meeting at a local pub where an 80′s tribute band was playing……

    Neither of us are big ‘bar scene’ people, but we were there with an interest to see a coverband play music from our younger days.

  327. Casey says:

    @ Gilgamesh

    I will agree with you insofar as women without ‘baggage’ were definitely on the make for the same. I.E. because I don’t have kids, I insist he not have kids.

    Too bad, as I was not divorced……I lived out my ‘Til death do us part’ vows in their entirety.
    You would hope that women whom are seriously on the look for a good husband would give that its proper weighting in the mate selection/decision process.

    However, far, far too many women (read 80%) are in love with the STORYBOOK of a marriage, and not the RESPONSIBILITY of one.

    I understand the desire to not get entangled in someone else’s divorced children (as they are divorced from their father).
    I maintained that as one of my standards as well, I was not interested in filling Daddy’s shoes if he was ‘ousted’ from the family……or worse yet, never part of the family.

    I hope a generation of lonely, feminist spinsters will create the sea change necessary to right the ship of marriage; which has been capsized since around 1965.

  328. mackPUA says:

    BTW I suggest people stop copying my style of writing, as all my posts are on the fly & rushed, theyre very rarely edited lol, its a pretty bad idea to copy my style, as its never really formatted or edited correctly …

    Anyway in other news…

    I recommend MGTOW & ex-patters to fight & repeal the divorce laws, it’s the only real way to destroy feminism

    Kick the feminists out of the courts by repealing the anti-male hating laws

    The rest of society’ll follow suit, as the divorce & family court industries collapse

    Feminism is built on flimsy, poorly argued laws, theft of property & jail for failure to pay welfare are ALL human rights violations

    The theft of property & jail for failing to pay welfare, HAVE to be challenged in the courts, for human rights violations against men

    Child welfare is a humans rights violation, as no crime’s been committed, IF a woman wants to keep a child SHE has to pay for it

  329. mackPUA says:

    @Mark

    “The Christian women that I have dated are horrendous”

    True, all the Christian women i’ve met are either shit testing ass-holes, or so entitled most men give them a clear 10 mile radius, as soon as they’re attitudes & bitchy, rejection whoring well rehearsed lines pour out of their mouths …

    ALL women have well rehearsed rejection whoring lines … I usually reply with a well rehearsed ass slapping … or an index finger … whatever turns the bitches on … lol

  330. Thanks Mark. And a Christian credit union is just a regular credit union that’s run by a church or something.

    A couple more loopholes i thought of:

    Instead of a marriage contact, the man contracts his wife for surrogacy of children. She becomes a “live in serogate” (through natural insemination of course). In exchange, she is given rights to his provision and house, so long as she does not engage in any “reproductive business” outside of him.

    Another idea of mine would be a community that is a non profit or else a corporation, that holds assets for its members, and had strict bylaws about how to manage them. Basically, the family still owns the assets, but if one spouse walks out, the corporation gets to decide who gets use of the assets, guided by strict by laws of course. I imagine the corporation being run by a religious organization, with elders managing everything.

  331. Wow I’m totally on a roll here..just thought of another loophole…

    A law firm that has the man sign a sperm donor agreement, and the woman signs a surrogacy agreement, and there are only one copy of each and the law firm stores them both overseas so that they cannot be seized by the government. Then of the man or woman walks out or cheats, the records guardian is under orders to destroy one copy, and deliver the other copy to the wronged party.

  332. lozozozoz

    “mackPUA says:
    May 13, 2013 at 5:06 pm
    BTW I suggest people stop copying my style of writing, as all my posts are on the fly & rushed, theyre very rarely edited lol, its a pretty bad idea to copy my style, as its never really formatted or edited correctly …”

    NM Me tooozzz!!!! me too!!!

    BTW I suggest dat peoplezzz stop copying da GBFM stytlez of writing, as all my posts are on penned with great painstainkgz artsisty and patience, theyre alwayzs alwyz edited lollzozozozozozoz for excelelentz spepelingz and pprorpeorooer grammarz, its a pretty bad idea to copeey my stylez, as its alwayz really formatted and editedz correctlzlzly …lzozozozozozoz”

  333. Gilgamesh says:

    I have never met a woman I would consider marriageable. They think that just gracing a man with their presences is equal to his many contributions and that men exist to accommodate women’s lifestyle choices. Funny how the “good women” only come out of the woodwork when you offend them but are nowhere to be found if you’re looking for a wife.

  334. Michael says:

    @ Robinbreak

    “All they’re going to get is my cock.”

    I realize it seems almost self evident women are rewarding men who are like this with sex. But if you force yourself to have that outlook towards women won’t you erode the good person inside you? Think about it. You will become a heathen with a pagans outlook. That will be the outcome. You will be detached and cut off from true love. You will only experience carnal sensations, sexual relief, but not love; true love; a soul-mate or a spiritual connection.

  335. Anonymous age 71 says:

    greyghost says: May 12, 2013 at 7:52 am

    >>This isn’t my blog to do, but to see what it looks like you need to go to Syria, Mexico etc to see what SHTF or collapse looks like.

    So, you haven’t been in Mexico? And, are basing your negative opinion of Mexico on the druggies killing each other?

    Have you been in East St. Louis in the middle of a summer’s night?

    Economists are predicting Mexico as a high probability of an economic power house in 20 years. So, who is betting on the USA in 20 years? I am moderator on several boards and I advise members it is generally a bad idea to write about things you know nothing about.

    Michael says: May 12, 2013 at 7:40 pm
    >>So I would be forced to get a prenup. This of course, goes against the heart of marriage.

    Don’t worry about pre-nups going against the heart of marriage, Michael. They were pretty much worthless. Their main function is to trick gullible fools into marriage.

    Opus, prenups are also pretty much worthless in the USA. I know of no state that has no provisions for judges to rip up pre-nups if they want. Lawyers try to tell men pre-nups are good if they are properly written. They do this because they well know most men who pay lots of money for a pre-nup will also waste a lot of money trying to defend it, a losing battle. There is a difference. Cases I have seen where a valid pre-nup was torn up by a judge usually only give the greedy woman (but I repeat myself) 1/3 instead of 1/2.

    Random Angeleno says: May 13, 2013 at 2:51 pm
    >>Says in the New Testament that you should know the truth and it will set you free.

    I think it says the truth will make you free. If you go look it up, you will find it is only talking about the message of Jesus, not a general statement at all.

    All those with creative ideas on how to avoid being robbed in divorce. Good try, but judges routinely simply order men to pay child support and alimony without regard to actually proving he has the money. These ideas almost guarantee you will be robbed in divorce with no ability to actually pay.

  336. Michael says:

    @ MackPUA

    “it follows that if women want more confident men, they need to be giving men a chance to build it up.”

    I have a hypothesis:

    Women want confidence and men get their confidence from women.

    I’m talking about the kind of ‘magnetic’ confidence that women claim attracts them to men. They did a study and discovered the women were attracted to men who had large numbers of sexual partners. It’s kind of disgusting (when you think about it). I formulated this hypothesis trying to make sense from observing women’s behavior.

  337. greyghost says:

    ANON 71
    Wasn’t meant to bash mexico just meant to show what the violence from Collapse looks like.http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/mexico-drug-wars-49-headless-dismembered-bodies-found-130658096.html This next one isn’t real it is just photoshop to show mexico in a bad light. http://en.tengrinews.kz/userdata/news_en/news_11465/thumb_b/photo_18500.jpg

  338. Michael says:

    @ Anonymous age 71

    Interesting you should mention Prenups. My area of Law is the diametric opposite of Family Law/Prenups. I called another Attorney who knew another Attorney who answered my questions for free.

    Overturned Prenups are nearly always poorly written and executed where only one attorney hired by the person initiating the Prenup (the man) was involved for the just himself or both him and his fiancée.

    There must be at least 2 separate Attorney’s. The same Attorney cannot work for both parties. They must be “separate companies” before “merging”. This means the women independently retains an attorney to review the Prenup.

    This means the fiancée MUST NOT pay for her attorney. It has to be demonstrated she paid by herself of her own free will in mutual agreement / interest with her fiancée. The fiancée should only pay her in CASH (untraceable) to pay for her own Attorney. The man should NEVER give her a check or pay her Attorney directly. The session should be VIDEO TAPED with a video consent form signed by both parties. Both attorney’s keep the videos on file for future contesting.

    In the case you go all out to ensure an iron clad Prenup and the Female judge rules it coercive or invalid (the Attorney said it’s nearly ALWAYS A FEMALE JUDGE WHO DOES IT TO HIM) you can always appeal and chances are you will win. However there is always the remote chance you won’t, usually depending on extreme circumstances.

    I also learned something new. A Prenup is very hard with a mail order bride. A foreign women from a poor country has a greater chance at claiming ignorance, coercion, and even political asylum (“she was being, you know, oppressed by the local Police Chief and his corrupt cronies or something” in rural Russia and could not qualify for traditional political asylum so she had to join http://www.loveme.com and marry you.) For any guys reading this thinking about a Prenup with a mail order bride I was also told I would need to hire an attorney who speaks her language is familiar with the laws or her country and try to “pay her parents or something” to pay her for the attorney rather than pay her in cash because no judge will believe she paid on her own. This must also be videotaped and you should have a SECOND interpreter present to witness.

  339. Mark says:

    @Liberty

    “”I’m totally on a roll here.””……………………Are you ever!…….Thanks!

    “”A law firm that has the man sign a sperm donor agreement, and the woman signs a surrogacy agreement, and there are only one copy of each and the law firm stores them both overseas so that they cannot be seized by the government. Then of the man or woman walks out or cheats, the records guardian is under orders to destroy one copy, and deliver the other copy to the wronged party.””

    Wow!………I have never have even considered this!………..but,this sounds very legal indeed! You know the sad part?…….this has what it has come to…….Soooooo Sad!

    @Dalrock

    Another exquisite article!……..*Bows in your presence*………keep up the great literary pieces!……a book is just around the corner for you!

  340. Pingback: Testosterone-filled Links | About Lifting

  341. Random Angeleno says:

    @anonymous age 71
    Knowing the truth and being set free by that knowledge is applicable to most things in life, not just Jesus’ message. Especially the red pill. The problem is that the truth in whatever form it appears is quite scary to many who would rather seek comfort in the blue pill (see Michael above).

  342. bona fide says:

    Can’t find your email Dalrock, so I’ll just drop this here.
    http://www.ted.com/talks/meg_jay_why_30_is_not_the_new_20.html
    Nothing we don’t know already, but it’s still nice to finally see this showing up on Ted.
    Feel free to delete.

  343. Ton says:

    I was offered a job in Mexico doing…. stuff. Let’s not be foolish on what’s going on there.

    There is no such thing as true love. You have to shit can the silly high school girl version of the world. You will have next to no success with any woman until you learn their true nature and learn to manage them. This is especially true if you plan on dating younger women who above all things want an older, established man to manage their affairs

  344. Outcast Superstar says:

    Michael,

    I hope you realize being a never married bachelor isn’t the worst thing.

    In my latest entry, I did a blog about Firefighter Fred Manning up and here was how society rewarded Firefighter Fred for Manning Up if you care to find out.

    http://outcastsuperstar.blogspot.com/2013/05/firefighter-fred-manned-up.html

  345. Opus says:

    Back to Pre-Nups, and I am most interested to read what Anonymous 71 has to say about the enforcability of Pre-Nups in America.

    May I make – gratis – the following observations:

    The first purpose of a Pre Nup is to enable both parties to know what they both intend at or immediately before they marry. This is emminently sensible if one or other party comes with assets to the marriage. My parents never entered into one, but they never had a joint bank account or other joint property – and this from the days when having a Bank Account was a status symbol – their Banking was separate. In fact my Mother – who was by today’s standards probably a Millionaire on her own account – always kept all her finances separate and my Father never interfered with that. Had they had a Pre-Nup then there could have been no doubt as to their intentions – without one there might have been.

    Secondly it is surely correct that both parties must receive independent legal advice to avoid the possibility of one party alleging Duress. I have never come across a Pre-Nup in practice but I have frequently come across wives alleging that the additional mortgage on their Home was made under Duress. Banks and other financial institutions will therefore insist in such cases on the wife being separately represented.

    Thirdly Pre-Nups are a little like Covenants on Restraint of Trade. In those cases the the Master wants the covenant drafted as widely as possible and the Servant the covenant drafted narrowly. It is better to draft narrowly for if the covenant is too wide the Judge will throw the entire clause out. Lawyers can only do what the clients request, and thus it is (hopefully) more than a case of securing a hot-lawyer. Language is not Magic. Lawyers will advise but ultimately will do what their clients request. It the client is gung-ho the client may find the clause will be thrown out. My remarks about Covenants in restraint of Trade surely also apply to Pre-Nups.

    Finally, as I am NOT (contrary to popular opinion where I live) a qualified Lawyer in any American state. Please therefore seek discreet legal advice and do not rely on what you read on the Net. If Novaseeker (or any one else) thinks I am in any way mistaken I will be only too happy to retract any of the three above paragraphs or part thereof.

    May I also add that – and this as a sort of contrary view – that the more writing there is, the more there is to disagree over. In my lifetime the average legal document has grown exponentially in length and the amount of litigation thereon likewise. Sometimes, the less said the less there is to argue about. I cannot concur with Ronald Dworkin (the great American Jurisprudent) that Law is gapless; it seems to me to have more holes than Swiss Cheese.

  346. James says:

    @Gilgamesh
    Funny how the “good women” only come out of the woodwork when you offend them but are nowhere to be found if you’re looking for a wife.

    +1 to that!

    @Outcast Superstar

    Your post about Firefighter Fred is awesome.

    The whole of the video is worth watching (not just Fred’s segment). It is interesting that, in order to present a story critical of alimony laws, the MSM must point out that women are harmed too – if they are high earners or second wives. That shows the dark underbelly of our society – that we consider something to be bad only if it harms women – but nevertheless it is a good strategy.

    One second wife is frank enough to say that if she had known that some of her earnings would be diverted to her husband’s first wife, she probably would not have married him.

    The Hitler mashup is excellent too.

  347. Hopeful says:

    “One second wife is frank enough to say that if she had known that some of her earnings would be diverted to her husband’s first wife, she probably would not have married him.”

    For 30+ women, it’s either this or don’t marry at all.

  348. Hopeful says:

    Sorry for double post.

    “Most likely the 5 will become a 3, not a 7!!!”

    You know the argument for this is: “when I become a 3 (in your eyes) won’t your remember the 5 (in your eyes) I once was?”

  349. Ohio Trucker says:

    Are there any divorced people on here who pay alimony? I’ve been divorced 10 years now and not a single cent spent in alimony. As far as I’m aware only wealthy people pay into that. With the rest of of mere mortals its a whats his whats hers split and thats it. We aren’t expected to shell out money to our ex wives for the rest of our lives. Alimony was invented back during the stay at home mom days when girls were brought up to forego higher education and career in favor of marrying early and staying at home. It made sense then. It makes no sense now, except for the very wealthy who seem to hold on to this tradition.

  350. Joe says:

    @Michael

    There must be at least 2 separate Attorney’s. The same Attorney cannot work for both parties. They must be “separate companies” before “merging”. This means the women independently retains an attorney to review the Prenup.

    Here’s my suggestion –

    The man and his fiance should discuss the Prenup and what it should address. Then, the woman should independently retain an attorney to prepare the Prenup. The man would then go to his attorney to review the Prenup. Since the woman took the initiative to prepare the Prenup, it would seem that she couldn’t later argue that the Prenup should be thrown out. If the woman is not willing to take this first step, then don’t get married.

  351. Luke says:

    Anonymous age 71 says:

    May 13, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    “Economists are predicting Mexico as a high probability of an economic power house in 20 years.”

    That’s hilarious. Mexico will cease to be an oil exporter in under 10 years with forseeable trends.

    http://geo-mexico.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/oil-exports.jpg

    Oil is the main thing they export, along with people they don’t want.

  352. Joe says:

    @Ohio Trucker

    Its what’s in the statutes and not tradition. I believe Massachusetts (and perhaps some other New England states) have very archaic divorce laws. I recall a TV program that addressed this issue by showing a woman in a nursing home that still received alimony payments!

  353. Luke says:

    Liberty, Family, and Masculinity says:
    May 13, 2013 at 5:43 pm
    Thanks Mark. And a Christian credit union is just a regular credit union that’s run by a church or something.

    “Instead of a marriage contact, the man contracts his wife for surrogacy of children. She becomes a “live in serogate” {surrogate] (through natural insemination of course).”

    I don’t think that could hold up legally in any state in the U.S.
    (My wife and I have two children conceived by IVF from donor eggs and gestated by an unrelated surrogate, so I had to learn something about this subject.)

    Sperm donation isn’t recognized as anything but sex unless a doctor at a fertility clinic does the transfer. Further, surrogacy is much easier to make work legally if the gestator does NOT have any genetic contribution (is NOT “traditional” surrogacy, as seen in the 1970s Burt Reynolds movie “Paternity”.) Note that there are states such as Lousiana that don’t recognize ANY surrogacy agreements at all. Plus, in most states, children born to a woman who is married are by default the legal responsibility of her husband, unless he proves (within a narrow time frame) that they are genetically not his.

  354. Ohio Trucker says:

    “Economists are predicting Mexico as a high probability of an economic power house in 20 years.”

    Very possible. One way is via Mexicans immigrants reinvesting into their country of origin.

  355. mackPUA says:

    @Michael

    “Women want confidence and men get their confidence from women. ”

    Not quite, a confident man & confidence which women find attractive arent the same thing

    Most men are confident, they just dont have the aloof, dominance & alpha asshole, women view as confidence …

    Women view sociopathic, extreme social dominance confidence as confident …

    The confidence viewed by men, ie kick ass in his job & has his shit together, & is logical & highly intelligent & successful, isnt going to be a highly socially dominant asshole …

    Women were born to breed with barbarians & invading armies, basically betray & stab the men who provide for them

    Women are born to breed, with the most brutal & ruthless men, not the most intelligent or successful

    Logic has nothing to do with social dominance …

  356. Random Angeleno says:

    Mexico economy will pick up in the next 20 years. Number of reasons for this but it boils down to energy, demographics, favorable balance of labor costs vs transportation costs stemming from closeness to the US. Also lots of pent-up demand that has been suppressed by cartel in-fighting. Sure their oil industry isn’t in great shape, but the northern part of the country will have access to Texas oil and natural gas, yes we will be exporting these that way, natural gas pipeline deals are being worked on as I write this. Think immigration will become a moot issue during that time; we may even see a sizable reverse migration. But guaranteed the US farmers are going to be looking for new sources of low cost labor to take jobs us native Americans won’t touch. Where will those immigrants come from? I have a good guess, but we’re going way off topic now. But the coming Mexican economic revival is certainly relevant to the manosphere as that will likely influence the demographics and the tax base here in the long run which will in turn influence the bennies available to single moms on fire.

  357. 8oxer says:

    I don’t think that could hold up legally in any state in the U.S.

    I don’t like to be overtly rude, but taking legal advice from strange, creative chuckleheads on the internet is never a good idea. The brother that takes any of this nonsense seriously is doing the equivalent of getting a cancer treatment from a hobo. Even bona fide solicitors (Opus, et. al.) aren’t licensed to dispense advice in all areas of the world, as he has already tried to assert many times.

    In my area, I see prenups often respected in theory and completely destroyed in principle, in person, when I go to the local family courts for a laugh or two (I recommend popping in there whenever you have a spare hour, it’s quite informative).

    The judge will usually say “due to the prenuptial agreement, the respondent (husband) will keep the family home” and in the same sentence he’ll say “and thus I order respondent to buy petitioner (wife) a home of equal or greater value, within 30 days”. Naturally, this will cause the husband to sell the home he wanted to keep and so he can buy princess her new digs.

    You are not going to win in divorce court, fellas. There are forensic accountants ready to pick your bones clean for the crime of trying to get a fair shake. It’s a rigged game and we all just need to accept that. If I were getting married, I’d emigrate someplace where men have equal access to the courts. Latin America or an Arab country might work. Otherwise, I’d stay single.

    Regards, Boxer

  358. mackPUA says:

    @Michael

    Its also important to realise socially dominant assholes, are made by ruthless women

    Socially dominant assholes, are the product of hostile women, who cant stand men who isnt a brutal ruthless asshole …

    Socially dominant assholes, realise the logical response to a hostile woman, is to be a Socially dominant asshole

    Most beta’s dont come to that conclusion …

    Dead-beats & loosers, ie guiatarists, are socially dominant assholes, precisely because they have nothing, theyre poor & worthless, when you’ve got nothing to loose, the logical response is to be an asshole to everyone who actually has market value & smarts & brains…

    Ruthless barbarians, take, beg & steal

    Highly Intellectual Men, create & innovate & win & have huge amounts of success

    In nature its easier to take, beg & steal, even though creating & innovating & winning, is alot more successful then take, beg & steal …

    Deadbeats, loosers, assholes & guitarists, are basically the barbarians at the gate …

    Use your wealth & intelligence & superiority to escape the barbarians, & sluts & whores … fuck them all to hell …

    The logical response to a hostile environment is to destroy it … or be an asshole to everyone stupid enough to live in it … or MGTOW

    Fuck everyone who brings the barbarians at the gates, including the christians & retarded traditionalists & corporate male hating fascists

    Know your enemy …

  359. mackPUA says:

    “Economists are predicting Mexico as a high probability of an economic power house in 20 years.”

    Any country not trading in euro’s or dollars, or screwing their men over in divorce, is a economic power house in 20 years …. lol

  360. Ton says:

    I was an E7 when the divorce happened, she got 0 child support and 50% of my gross pay for alimony, then 50% of my retirement pay. She was an RN, making about what I did, but had not worked in the last year or so, because we moved. Her and her lair, I mean lawyer, made a claim she was disabled and could not work, without any collaboration for the disability claim.

    NC is perhaps the worse state for men. There is no real law, only the judge’s decision.

    “Women were born to breed with barbarians, & invading armies…” explains my success with hippy chicks

  361. Luke says:

    8oxer said on May 14, 2013 1:14 PM

    “The judge will usually say “due to the prenuptial agreement, the respondent (husband) will keep the family home” and in the same sentence he’ll say “and thus I order respondent to buy petitioner (wife) a home of equal or greater value, within 30 days”. Naturally, this will cause the husband to sell the home he wanted to keep and so he can buy princess her new digs.”

    The appropriate response for the ex-husband in that case IMO would be (short of pointless legal appeal, violence, or permanent expatriation) would be to flood the house with sewage, after burying lead, asbestos, and PCBs all over the yard (with a note about having done this). (Putting a notice on the Spanish section of Craig’s List that there’s copper there to steal would also work for the house instead of flooding it.) The value of the land and house would both permanently become negative. He would then have to disappear, of course, but if enough men do that sort of thing, frivorce will finally go down.

  362. Luke says:

    Random Angeleno says:

    May 14, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    “Mexico economy will pick up in the next 20 years. Number of reasons for this but it boils down to energy, demographics, favorable balance of labor costs vs transportation costs stemming from closeness to the US. Also lots of pent-up demand that has been suppressed by cartel in-fighting. Sure their oil industry isn’t in great shape, but the northern part of the country will have access to Texas oil and natural gas, yes we will be exporting these that way”

    This makes no sense, RA. Countries don’t get rich from paying to import petroleum, but poorer. Second, “pent-up demand” is a nonsensical concept; it’s the ability to pay for what you want that counts, and with the coming collapse of Mexico’s export economy, their ability to pay for anything they want (that they don’t produce themselves) is going to plummet.

  363. mackPUA says:

    Wake up call guys ….

    “When girls are attracted to me, they are often quick to peg me as a cheeky asshole, or whatever. And if I do anything to intimate I’m interested in anything more than sex, their disappointment is visceral, if subtle.

    Women are extremely turned off by men who want any sort of relationship before they do. It’s the surest sign of being a loser in their eyes. Even for “good girls.” They strongly believe that quality men need to be pinned down and snared into a relationship. I don’t think young attractive women want exclusive LTRs with studs, at least initially.

    Also, girls are so used to socializing in mixed groups that dates freak them out. The slightest prospect of a relationship and thus a loss of independence scares them. I’ve had many girls tell me they feel weird talking on the phone to a man. They live in perpetual fear of ‘awkwardness,’ and will do their best to avoid situations that might give rise to it. Intimacy prior to sex is impossible for them.

    Maybe, after several bouts of sex, she will desire slightly more. She will ask that you stop banging other girls.”

    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/10/14/all-the-lonely-feminist-spinsters/#comment-16983

  364. Opus says:

    I would like to underline what Boxer says above. Getting advice on law via the Internet is really the equivalent of getting it from the guy sitting on the next Bar stool. Now it may be that myself and Novaseeker and anyone else are correct in everything we write (we hopefully know how to ring-fence what we say with enough caveats), but we don’t know the readers, both those who comment and (the majority) who don’t here, face-to-face, nor do we know enough if anything about the readers particular circumstances, to be more than exceedingly general.

    What intrigues me is whether what we say would make any sense in relation to other countries, even say somewhere like France, with its Napoleonic Code nevermind somewhere further East. America/Canada and Britain are sufficiently similar that many legal concepts in England have been adopted across the Atlantic, such that people like Coke or Matthew Hale or Blackstone L.JJs. can be quoted as authorities (at least at to what the law was) on both sides thereof, and such that they are entirely comprehensible. That might not be the case elsewhere – and of course there is no language barrier – concepts do not run the risks of translation.

    Boxer at least has one advantage over those in England where matters ancillary to Matrimonial Causes (i.e. to do with children or property) are held in Chambers (in camera), on the grounds that the matters are private between the parties and do not concern the rest of the country – or the press – in that he can freely enter a court hearing such matters. There are those of course who interpret the restriction of access to such courts in England as a form of Star Chamber or secret court.

    Clearly the jurisdiction of the State is no more to be evaded via Pre-Nups in the Dominion of Canada than it is in the Kingdom of England.

  365. mackPUA says:

    England & the U.S have the same legal structure & practically the same court structure

    The only difference is precedence & case law

    Theyre both based on common law & constitutional rights …

  366. hurting says:

    Ohio Trucker says:
    May 14, 2013 at 10:18 am

    OT,

    Alimony varies by state, but is still very much alive and in force. Even within a given state, it can vary widely depending on the jurisdiction. In Ohio, it’s determined by the judge on hte basis of 14 criteria, the last of which is whatever he/she thinks is equitable.

    As for me (in Ohio) – I’m currently paying $18K a year (on a $100K salary) to my ex (who could earn $40K easily working FT in her field and would not incur any child care expenses) in alimony plus $8,400 annually in child support for one kid (the CS is the equivalent of $12K annually in pre-tax income). $30K total to her, plus I pay the private school tuition she reneged on she agreed to pay at the settlement hearing (another $10K in pre-tax income; and no, it’s not in writing, I trusted her). She adds $20K in earnings of her own for a total of $50K houshold income – not wealthy at all but about 20% above median household income for this area and on 2 days of work per week.

    Oh yeah, and did I forget to mention that the kid is with me or at my house half the time?

    Sucks to be me, but I’ve heard worse horror stories.

  367. greyghost says:

    Well Mike are you sure you want some of that?

  368. Random Angeleno says:

    @Luke,
    When Mexican factories in northern Mexico paying Mexican labor rates have access to cheap natural gas from Texas, they are going to expand. A lot. There is precedent for this. Major US companies such as Dow Chemical have been bringing manufacturing back to the US because the difference in energy costs due to cheap natural gas is so compelling. This effect will float over the border as we have a glut of cheap natural gas and it has to go somewhere if Obama continues to stonewall LNG export terminal applications. As I said, natural gas pipeline deals to cross the border are in the works. There has already been manufacturing expansion taking place in Mexico because its current combination of energy, labor and transportation costs now compare favorably with China. Access to Texas’ natural gas will accelerate this trend. The problems stemming from drug wars, poverty and the nationalized oil company are sizable, no doubt, and may yet cause the expansion to stall. But there are bright spots down there. A stable currency over the last 20 years, a slowly expanding economy during that time, an expanding middle class with favorable demographics, especially in the north, these factors point toward expansion over the next 20 years. In short, don’t be so quick to write Mexico’s obituary…

  369. mackPUA says:

    Child welfare is alimony …

  370. Novaseeker says:

    As for me (in Ohio) – I’m currently paying $18K a year (on a $100K salary) to my ex (who could earn $40K easily working FT in her field and would not incur any child care expenses) in alimony plus $8,400 annually in child support for one kid (the CS is the equivalent of $12K annually in pre-tax income). $30K total to her,

    Yep. Likely you’re netting ~65k after all taxes and other deducts, which is about ~5400/month, and ~2200 goes to ex-wife. That’s 41% of his actual after tax income that goes to wife, and that’s before the off balance sheet school payments (and everything else).

    You can easily see why women divorce. Why no divorce when you don’t want to sex your husband anymore, but he still has to pay you 41% of his after tax disposable income anyway? You get the financial support benefit with zippo in return. This is why the system is thoroughly broken. Utterly, thoroughly broken. Men *do* have commitments beyond marriage to their ex-wives and women do not have anything similar to their ex-husbands. So we see massive divorce when women, as they normally do, go through periods of being unattracted to their husbands who have failed a few shit tests here and there and their hormones are screaming at them to detach and try to get new sperm. That will happen anyway, but when you can do it and take 41% of your ex-H’s disposable income anyway, there is very little incentive NOT to do it.

  371. Novaseeker says:

    I don’t like to be overtly rude, but taking legal advice from strange, creative chuckleheads on the internet is never a good idea. The brother that takes any of this nonsense seriously is doing the equivalent of getting a cancer treatment from a hobo. Even bona fide solicitors (Opus, et. al.) aren’t licensed to dispense advice in all areas of the world, as he has already tried to assert many times.

    Very true. We can only speak in generalities based on experience. Every case is different, and in the US every state (and often every judge) is different.

    Finally, as I am NOT (contrary to popular opinion where I live) a qualified Lawyer in any American state. Please therefore seek discreet legal advice and do not rely on what you read on the Net. If Novaseeker (or any one else) thinks I am in any way mistaken I will be only too happy to retract any of the three above paragraphs or part thereof.

    It’s generally correct. In the US it varies quite a bit by state and sometimes also by district within the state. Very generally, they are more respected if they relate to pre-marital property, and if they are concluded at a date that is not close to the time of marriage (that is often considered duress, per se, by our family courts, even if there is proper representation on both sides) and there is full, and fulsome disclosure at the time of signing (not just of the separate assets, but all assets, all possibilities of assets, and all factors that could impact any of that — another popular means used by our family courts to invalidate them). And as Boxer notes, sometimes they will uphold certain provisions relating to marital property, while then simultaneously issuing a decree that makes upholding the provision of the pre-nup effectively worthless. The bottom line is this: you’re more likely to have it respected if it relates to clear pre-marital assets that were fulsomely disclosed at a time well, well in advance of the marriage and the pre-nup was signed well, well in advance of the marriage (say 4-6 months or more) with very professional (and expensive) representation on both sides that probably runs a risk of cratering your engagement. Generally, otherwise, family courts hate them.

  372. Jack says:

    Adventures in cluelessness:
    “As we contemplated our first post-undergraduate step, we suddenly felt like all the air had been let out of our balloon—our inflated collegiate egos a fine metaphor for the nation’s economy, we would soon discover. The new picture of working life that emerged was nothing like the one we had imagined. We thought we were going to have rocket careers, happy children, and passionate, supportive partners with stellar careers of their own. But when we tried to break all this down, it just didn’t add up. When, exactly, were we supposed to have children if 25-40 was when we had to prove ourselves at work? How were you supposed to bring kids up, if you and your spouse both work 50 hours a week?”
    http://www.newdream.org/blog/the-future-of-work-get-on-the-lattice-or-die
    The authors (Liz Kofman and Astri Von Arbin Ahlander,), both women, dismiss the housewife path and assume that men will be there to partner with them as they pursue their “rocket careers”.

  373. Casey says:

    Here is another thought on ‘outcomes’ to the feminist movement.

    By purposefully pushing off childbirth by 10, 15, 20 years………the CHILD loses a further relationship. That being the one with their grandparents.

    If having children gets pushed out to 35 & 40 years old, what opportunity will that child have in knowing one of the most sacred and special bonds available? The bible talks of the special bond between grandparents and grandchildren.

    Just one more casualty in the wake of the feminist arsenal which destroys families in their totality.

  374. HawkandRock says:

    Casey, your point is spot on, incredibly important and almost universally ignored by anyone writing about these issues. Thank you very much for posting that.

  375. mackPUA says:

    Meh, grandparents are usually even more male hating & opportunist then the woman who divorces

    Who gets custody, gets the grandparent …

    Screw the fact they saw your first foot steps … no grand kids, no grand parents

  376. Luke says:

    How to have what is effectively a 99.9% certain prenuptial agreement, without paying a nickel to any lawyers… Before marrying, sell anything of value too large to conceal somewhere the future ex-wife can’t find it. Then, hide the proceeds, ideally in the form of gold or silver, but at least in cash (no “promissory notes”, “certificate of share ownership”, “certificates of deposit”, IOUs, or the like). I suggest splitting it into a minimum of 3 places. These can be any of offshore banks, with a totally-trusted longterm friend of same sex/relative, buried, concealed in a mundane item, you name it. Then, you’re not worried about what any divorce court feminist/manhole armed robber might do. Oh, and DEFINITELY never give the ex-honorable wife a nickel you can prevent. You’ll have to disappear WRT regular employment, but if you work for cash, you won’t need much, not with neither Uncle Thief nor the not-ex-enough former wifey to leech off you. Think of it as the most patriotic thing you will likely do during your life, as indeed it will probably be.

  377. Casey says:

    @ mackPUA

    You miss my point, even an intact family that AVOIDS divorce will deprive a child of a relationship with their grandparents (or at least, an enduring one).

    The grandparents will simply be to old to interact with that child, or have already passed on by the time they are born. That becomes an entrenched reality after 2 generations of child postponement.

    To your point about frivorce & the winning party (woman) getting to keep grandparents (her parents only) in the childs life. I would say “Only if she had her children at a young age”.

    Otherwise, maternal and paternal grandparents are likely already deceased.

    Denying treacherous women a child is a viable solution……but will take years to build critical mass.
    Nonetheless, it is occuring.

  378. Casey says:

    @HawlandRock

    Thanks, it’s nice to feel appreciated.

    My comments in general are looked at with disgust/bewilderment by ‘blue pill’ swallowers. (Thankfully, there are precious few on this blog).

  379. mackPUA says:

    @Casey

    Erm, no I didnt miss your point lol … I actually agree with your point

    The problem with Dalrock & a vast majority of marriage game sites, they confuse statistics as a socially descriptive term for a socio-biological system, we call the nuclear family

    The fact is statistics dont have anything to do with how society works

    Social engineers use statistics to validate their understanding, of the rules a system uses to organise itself

    Statistics dont describe or tell you how a system works

    You cannot understand how something works, by treating it as a number generator

    You understand society by the rules it uses to organise itself..

    Women today arent marrying later because of feminism or because they want a career

    This is where I disagree with most blogs, as they use statistical reasoning, instead of actually understanding the rules a society uses to function

    Nuclear families drive economics, that is socio-biology always drives economy

    All societies are nuclear family driven, which in turn drive economic behaviour

    The nuclear family is THE regulating force behind most economic trends in society

    The main reason women today, are marrying later is because the family before them, had too few children to create a large enough nuclear family, for the women to marry into

    The bitchy attitudes we see today, are the result of women being raised outside of strong nuclear families, which historically taught them to respect & honour men

    This is the driving force for women marrying in their 30′s

    Put a woman inside a nuclear family, & her biology goes nuts, she will always marry early & have tons of kids

    Her outside a nuclear & she becomes highly dysfunctional & not able to biologically maternal, or bond correctly with her husband & children

    Women dont know how to exist outside of a strong nuclear family

    Fascist Idealogies like feminism & liberalism, can only exist outside the vacuum of strong closely knit traditional nuclear families

    The problem you’re describing isnt caused by women marrying late, its caused by women having too few children

    Women marrying late is the result of their grandparents not having enough children to form a nuclear traditional family

    Theres plenty of old maids in most cultures, but they always had plenty of children to make up for the spinsters & old maids

    The divorce rates, the EPL mentality, are all caused by women who need to give birth to large families

    I basically stated the reality for most men & their grandparents

    Most grandparents today, disown their own grandson to get at the grandchildren

    Western nuclear families are trainwrecks, they have no traditional, or maternal values whatsoever

    Grandmothers of this generation, are basically a bunch of alooholic chainsmoking assholes …

    Grandmothers basically with penises & a tobacco stained life of being pumped & dumped …

    Most grandmothers today are basically the sluts of the 60′s & 70′s … which is why theyre not forming large nuclear families & need to stop divorcing

    Once you understand how nuclear families regulate society, you can pretty much project the direction society will take, by up to at least 50-60 years into the future …

  380. robinbreak says:

    Michael says:

    “I realize it seems almost self evident women are rewarding men who are like this with sex. But if you force yourself to have that outlook towards women won’t you erode the good person inside you? Think about it. You will become a heathen with a pagans outlook. That will be the outcome. You will be detached and cut off from true love. You will only experience carnal sensations, sexual relief, but not love; true love; a soul-mate or a spiritual connection.”

    Micheal, don’t get me wrong.
    I would love to have soulmate, a woman to be on my side for the rest of my life.
    A partener with which have a common project of raising a family.

    But I am realizing that every time I loved a woman, she treated me in the worst way possible.
    And inevitabily things went very wrong.

    I am now convinced that a woman is INCAPABLE OF LOVING SOMEONE.
    SHE CAN ONLY LOVE HERSELF.

    It doesn’t matter how good of a guy you are, nothing matter EXCEPT HER FEELINGS.
    So, the minute those feelings are gone, you’re done. Kaput. Finito.

    So, at this point, are you willing to put EVERYTHING in your life AT STAKE for that?
    Guys like us, that worked their ass off to biuld something valuable, that have been searching for good women only to get deeply disappointed… We have so much to lose…
    Knowing that everyday you will be one “wrong” word away, one “bad mood day” away, one “fight” away to lose EVERYTHING.

    Sorry man, the stake is not worth the risk for me.

    You can go ahead and marry the “girl of you dream”. We’ll talk again in 10 years…

  381. mackPUA says:

    Addendum :

    The divorce rates, the EPL mentality, are all caused by women who need to give birth to large families,

    But they dont have a nuclear family, a rich social group of uncles & nephews, to teach them the foundations of raising a large family

    So they resort to creating huge ghetto’s of illegitimate children

    The statistics & details of single women, dont include nuclear families

    But the success & guiding rules which control a socety are always controlled by the effect of nuclear families

    Feminism will always be welfare for ugly women raised outside the guidance of strong masculine men …

  382. mackPUA says:

    “and cut off from true love. ”

    Robinbreaks right …

    This is what michael doest understand, women will always want to have sex with you several times, before she even considers a relationship

    Thats what most women consider love …

    Which is why most women get pumped & dumped, they use sex as a reason to form a relationship,

    Ie. how good a man is in bed, instead of the chemistry they have with the guy who’s pump & dumping them

    This is how most feral animal, women think

    It’s all about how big his cock is, how good is he in bed, is he a bigger asshole then the last alpha who pumped & dumped her std infected ass …

    Thats basically what a relationship is for most modern women, ie sluts & whores …

  383. ahlstar says:

    You know how when a man (or woman) has their throat slit, they are not quite dead, but one look at them and you know they are a goner. It seems to me that marriage has had it’s throat cut from ear to ear. Stay away and avoid the mess.

  384. Michael says:

    @ Robinbreak

    I understand what you’re saying. It would seem a church marriage without a license, Marriage in a foreign country, or prenup would good safeguards for your finances. But there is no safeguards from getting stabbed in the heart (or back). That’s for sure.

    Your not going to believe what I saw today at the Veggie Grill Patio. I was eating alone on the patio and there was an attractive girl on the opposite side and I was thinking about what to say to her because she was also sitting alone. As I was thinking a pulls up comes over and they embrace in a passionate hug and kiss and start talking and she says: ” (muffled) your WIFE didn’t saying anything (muffled)” and he says “nah nah”.

    Yep. Sigh. Yep.

    @mackPUA

    “this is what michael doest understand, women will always want to have sex with you several times, before she even considers a relationship”

    - Now I am back to square one. I have to go through all the hassle of approaching, being rejected, getting numbers, calling, getting rejected, dating, and everything else just to get someone else.

  385. greyghost says:

    For those of you women out there that gave me crap when I said women do not have the capacity to love. Check out what this nice solid working beta guy said on his own based on what he has learned from women…….”I am now convinced that a woman is INCAPABLE OF LOVING SOMEONE.
    SHE CAN ONLY LOVE HERSELF.” Well well well foe all of you doubting ladies out there “your baby is a meal ticket or a hostage but it damn sure isn’t the love of your life.

  386. CassMan says:

    Michael,

    I am not sure if you are the same individual I conversed with on a previous post here by Dalrock, our situations sound eerily similar. I will save you the background and history with Women, it is unique and yet the same bewildering experiences all the Men in the Manosphere have shared, countless times.

    I was not fully conscious of the inner workings of the opposite sex however on an unconscious level I always knew when something wasn’t right, call it what you relate to the best, ‘my gut’. Working my way through previous engagements with Women, successes and failures, brought me to CH, Rollo and the great Manosphere. This collection of experiences, insights and awareness quickly filled in the remaining gaps I had felt. Connections were being made, and even a few “Oh Jesus this hurts” moments when I forced myself to reflect back on a woman from my past and their behaviours. intention and plans.

    Long story short, I have started to come full circle, the “Acceptance Phase”. Where you and I are alike is in our general dislike for the need of constant Game. The good news for me? I am naturally aloof and tend to have a high opinion of myself, I generally do not lack for confidence and this invariably comes off with my interactions with Women. If not for this and my looks I am afraid I would be completely “fucked”. While I see the value of Game and have countless stories of successful application, I have found that over the course of several years in a relationship, it becomes tedious. So tedious that anything less than a 10 out of 10, Michael, a true 10 out of 10, is not worth it for me.

    Can you imagine how much it pains me to admit this to myself? I have had a couple long term relationships in the past and enough short term sexual encounters to know I miss the company of a Woman. I also have had some soul extinguishing experiences from Women, illogical, emotionally charged Hypergamy 101, you’ve heard it all already my friend. So now I find myself at age 32, financially self sufficient, several years free of any emotional relationship and happier than I have ever been (as well as just a little bit wealthier for it all). I have given up on having a family for right now, something I never thought I would consider at this age.

    The West is going through the middle stages of true, societal collapse. Nowhere is this more evident than in the crumbling Empire of the United States of America, your backyard. Socialism has historically been what Women favour, which makes complete sense when you consider they are in the position of a net consumer, not a provider. The state has taken the role of Provider in many empires before at the bequest of Women, and in nearly every case the Empire entered terminal decay soon after. There is more to the decline of Empires than Women’s political influence, that is much too simplistic an answer and unfair to Women. This all paints a rather grim picture for the prospects of Women as a product of the current times.

    Simply put, as high achieving males we find ourselves born into a time period where Women have very little to offer Men of quality. Do yourself a favour Brother, if your work keeps you happy than continue focusing on that but do not let me hear you run yourself ragged 24/7 to make the time zones work. Been there, done that, made my buck. You run your own ship so this isn’t as simple as ‘just doing what Cass said’, at some point you will want to integrate something more, something deeper, and that will test your loyalty to your work life. If you are intent on having a child, you are wealthy enough to have a surrogate overseas. While this will not fill the gap left from a wife, it will allow you to perpetuate what you stand for in this World, and your moral fibre is genetic on some level. If you value your morality and character as much as I believe you do, then you will see the benefit of building a better tomorrow. You can certainly accomplish this with your own DNA + the surrogates, and many NA Men have and are doing just this.

    One last parting piece of advice. I will echo Dalrock’s warning here to you: The biggest risk for a Man like you is not the struggle to find a Women to keep you company at night, provide you with healthy, happy and loving children. Your biggest risk in this life Michael will be keeping her around, you understand you live within a system that encourages all married Women to divorce and profit take at some point. You will have to constantly fight this force in the West, every day of your natural life you will have to, so long as you are married.

    I have found peace with the concept of a future without a Women, despite having much to offer in every shallow department they shop after. Yet, I have so much more to offer a Woman than this, and I see so many fellow good Men who offer the same. They find no takers.

    I hope you find what you are looking for.

  387. CassMan says:

    I rarely do this however I feel compelled after seeing many displays. I have taken the unconventional route of reading the majority of the posts in this thread (ya, long night boys and girls).

    Please keep in mind that I am not a frequent visitor to the blog, and even less frequent a commentator. The majority of the regular crew here and their backgrounds are off my radar for the most part still.

    While reading the litany of advice posts for Michael, something did not sit right with me about poster ‘Z’s feedback and general comments. I could not logically work my way through what was trying to jump out and scream at me, so I read through them again. After the second screening I came over this and it smashed me into the side of my face like a left jab from Mike Tyson:

    ==========
    “I can’t understand a successful man living in a nice house on the beach not being able to wife somebody up. It just doesn’t make sense. You are either doing something wrong or you look very physically unattractive.”
    ===========

    “This is a fucking Woman” I yelled out triumphantly! That vindicating feeling you get when you can finally drag something out into the light for close observation. Sure enough, reading a few seasoned posters remarks confirmed my suspicions. What was upsetting me but elusive at first in this Woman’s advice and critique of Michael’s situation was her frame. My inner “Cass” read this in its unedited, unfiltered version:

    ==========
    “My mind cannot conceive how this problem is anyone’s but a result of your own doing Michael, Women flock to money (beach house relevance), unless you are so physically unattractive as to negate the materialistic gain by associating with you, you are just doing something else wrong, period”

    No Man talks to another Man like this, not in my 32 years on the planet they don’t. In my experience, only a Women would take such a stance and then be naive enough to continue on about it in ignorance for as long as Males willingly will engage in the misery with her. I am now convinced the only value in having female contributors allowed in the Maonsphere is to use them as direct, applicable examples to the Male populace. Watching live examples of the behaviour can turn a good post into a science exhibit. These Women who post and unwittingly become victims to their own solipsistic nature are saving Men from horrible decisions down the road.

    That they are so victim to their own nature that it now actively works against their own self interests is Irony with some whipped cream.

  388. hurting says:

    Novaseeker says:
    May 14, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    Nova,

    Yes, the incentives are ridiculously lopsided in favor of the woman, especially if she expects to remarry (she might have to forgo some alimony, but the CS keeps rolling in even).

    Since my last post I had lunch with a co-worker whose income profile looks a lot like mine except that he has 3 young kids. He intimated that sometimes he envies me in my new position. I stopped him cold and laid out the entirely plausible scenario where his wife runs off with the newer, better version of him, sticks him up for the pre-tax equivalent of 30% of his gross salary in CS alone and he gets to play babysitter every other weekend for the newlyweds. She actually enjoys at least a 30% improvement in standard of living while he just pays.

    Most people who say it sucks are just proffering platitudes. They don’t know. Not even a little bit.

  389. hurting says:

    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/expectations-vs-outcomes/#comment-82778

    Michael,

    You are exactly right about women wanting confidence (sadly they usually give a man no reason to have confidence).

    Ignore what they say and watch what they do. I’ve been on the bench as the result of my divorce for over a year now and have heard countless times how women want nice guys. I am a certifiably nice guy by every measure, generous with my time, less so with my money ’cause I don’t have much of that anymore. Nice guys do not finish last; to finish last, you must actually be in the race. Nice guys are lying mangled in the ditch at the starting line having been run over by by the ho’s trying to get to the hot guys they wish were nice – before the race even starts.

    It has taken me awhile to see this and that a different strategy can be made to work, at least if compansionship is what you seek. For the love of God, though, you need to tread very lightly regarding marriage; you are a good target for same – for the eventual plaintiff’s attorney from the future ex-Michael.

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  392. mackPUA says:

    @michael

    “this is what michael doest understand, women will always want to have sex with you several times, before she even considers a relationship”

    - Now I am back to square one. I have to go through all the hassle of approaching, being rejected, getting numbers, calling, getting rejected, dating, and everything else just to get someone else.”

    The key to game is to avoid the numbers game

    Only go for chicks who give you IOI’s & you have great chemistry with

    Screen the women, before you even take their number, any form of attitude, bitchiness, dump them on the spot

    After talking to a woman, who I make sure is interested in me, before I even approach her

    I have plenty of women begging to give me their number, but I usually walk away if she has zero chemistry or isnt enthusiastic or sexually turned on by me

    The key to great game, is to only go for women who give you IOI’s & you have clear chemistry

    Also avoid dates, get her to your place, or her place, & bang her as many times as you can, as early as you can

    If she doesnt want to goto your place straight away, goto a cafe, & segway from there

    If you want a relationship, segway into sex as early as possible & as often as possible

    Again dont do the numbers game, if a woman looks like she doesnt want to give you her number, find a woman who gives you clear signs she wants to give you her number, before you even approach her

    The numbers game is for suckers & amateurs

    Hit on women, who are interested in you, & you have stimulating conversation with, great conversation & chemistry will always guarantee you a relationship …

    Win the battle, before its begun

  393. Hopeful says:

    “Also avoid dates, get her to your place, or her place, & bang her as many times as you can, as early as you can”

    So this is what men do who want relationships? Explains why I’ve never had one. What if the girl just makes out with you, no sexual intercourse. Do you try again or move on?

  394. greyghost says:

    Hopeful
    Next time you start making out finger that pussy and get ready to hit it. Don’t forget to pull out and shoot it on her back.

  395. Hopeful says:

    Greyghost, I’m a woman.

  396. greyghost says:

    Don’t worry about shooting anything. Just get after it and don’t have any get anything in you. ha ha ha ha I didn’t see your face

  397. mackPUA says:

    @Hopeful

    “So this is what men do who want relationships? ”

    Do you even read the posts before you open your yap?

    I specifically said this is WHAT WOMEN WANT, this is why I recommend men pump & dump women

    Precisely because women expect sex several times before they decide a man is worth having a relationship with

    I also specifically said, I do not want to pump & dump them … this is what WOMEN WANT …

    I’m advising men on what women want from men

    Again let me state this as clearly as possible

    THIS IS WHAT WOMEN DO WHEN THEY WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH MEN …. women want sex as early as possible, & as often as possible, BEFORE women decide a man is worth a relationship

    Try some reading comprehension next time …

  398. mackPUA says:

    “What if the girl just makes out with you, no sexual intercourse. Do you try again or move on?”

    You escalate & get the lay … if a woman is at your place, she’s there for only one thing

    Basically if there is no sexual intercourse, you push for sex until you get the lay

    There is no such thing as just making out, if you’re at another guys place, decked out in hooker heels & no underwear …

  399. Hopeful says:

    @mackPUA

    This explains why I spent my “prime dating years” dateless.

  400. greyghost says:

    Hopeful you look like collateral damage of the feminist imperative. I never dated something I just did on my own years ago with out any manosphere. I hooked up and called her back after a while she was a girlfriend. At about the five to 6 month time period she would start the hook up cycle and get a new guy. Getting dumped was always a relief.

  401. Rmaxd says:

    Yea greyghost spells it out

    Women start a cock hopping cycle, get banged a few times, then get back on the cockhopping cycle

    Women cover up their cock hopping cycle, with what they call a break up …

    It’s just them restarting their cockhopping cycle …

    @Hopeless

    Are you less perforated now? Are you able to function without the ability to cock hop?

    Is the relationship more satisfying in between cockhopping, or in an actual short term relationship

    What do you think a man couldve done to prevent you from cock hopping?…

  402. mackPUA says:

    @Hopeful

    Btw Rmaxd is me … this dumb browser keeps changing my nick by mistake … gah

  403. Hopeful says:

    @mackPUA

    My N=0. And no BJ’s or fingering or anal or anything else that girls don’t consider sex either.
    When I was in college I just thought guys didn’t really like me. Anyone who offered sex the first time we met was an instant turn off for me. Dumped those guys. But then you get the persistent guys. I’d have to tell them point blank that it wasn’t going to happen. And then they’d leave me alone. I was high and dry and I had friends who seemed to always have a guy. I wondered how they were able to do that.
    I guess you could classify me as a carousel watcher. “Dating” (using the term loosely) multiple guys at once just left me feeling unfulfilled so I stopped around junior year of college. I did talk briefly to what I’d consider an alpha guy (assertive, ambitious) but I wasn’t happy with him either (and he had an on again off again girlfriend that I just didn’t want to compete with). That’s when I realized that assertiveness and ambition taken to the extreme can be bad qualities. And that just because someone looks good on paper doesn’t mean you will be happy with them. So I started looking more at the ways guys complemented me and the qualities of a good husband. As a Christian woman, I got rid of my list and decided to just look for a guy who loves God and seeks to live a Godly lifestyle. Everything else would fall into line behind that.

  404. mackPUA says:

    @Hopeful

    Thats great

    How long did it take for you to get to the point, you realised you wanted to be a wife & not promiscous?

  405. Opus says:

    It being a little quiet at Dalrock, everyone having decamped to The Orthosphere, what fun to deconstruct Hopeful:

    Guys offering her instant sex, and not put off by rejection, they kept offering.

    Acknowledges being sufficiently close to the Carousel.

    Admits to being unsatisfied by dating multiple (presumably three or more) guys at once? – and then after a break to recover -

    Targets an Alpha who already has a girlfriend (obviously a bit of a home wrecker is our well-named Hopeful) so she is just part of his soft Harem – and whoever heard of a celibate Alpha!

    Now you can believe that this just happens to an ordinary every-day girl, and taken at face value this looks like uber prick-teasing, but if you think that implausible the only conclusion is that she is in fact an uber-slut

    All her sins however are washed away as she is a Christian. How convenient!

  406. mackPUA says:

    @Opus

    I’m actually more interested in listening to how she rationalises her experience

    She says, she has a 0 lay count

    I’m presuming she isnt married

    Im interested in her hypothesis of her state …

    @Hopeful how long did it take for you to realise, your plausible deniability & fitness testing prevented you from finding a decent guy?

    Or were all the guys really to blame?

    Am I clutching at straws? lol

  407. Opus says:

    @MackPUA

    As you will guess, I think her Hamster is on steroids. Hopeful says she wants a guy who loves God and seeks to live a godly lifestyle – now that surely can’t be so hard to find, but is that what she goes for? Not according to her post, with its multiple-datings, Carouseling, and the Alpha male for whom she is happy to be an extra-curricula activity.

    Even as she denies her slutdom she itemises exactly what it is that she never did – ever. Me thinks she doth protest too much.

  408. Hopeful says:

    @mackPUA

    It took me reading this article a friend sent me. http://www.timbooktu.com/jamal/scaremen.txt. I realized my mistakes of rejecting nice guys and stopped dating all together. I began to think about what I bring to the table and not so much what I expect guys to bring. I was being selfish and avoided/rejected nice guys because of my own insecurities. I know I caused a lot of pain and now I’m paying the price for it. What goes around has come back around and I have to live with that. I’m not married.

    @Opus

    The Alpha wasn’t celibate. I didn’t sleep with him.
    I’ve met a Christian guy and we’ve been seeing each other. Too early to tell anything yet.

    I find it interesting you guys are so interested in my state.

  409. mackPUA says:

    @Hopeful

    I’m always on the lookout for new types of women … lol

    Hence my interest in your state …

    How old are you btw?

    I’m presuming you’re around 28+, as most women dont realise early enough ?

    If you want some tips …

    The fact you’ve only met one guy, means either you dont know how to girl game, or you’re not social networking enough …

    You’ll dramatically increase your chances, if you give him opportunities to lead & be alpha, ie asking him where to go, where to choose etc

    Men always look for women who bolster their confidence & go out of their way to take his side in arguements

    Men always remember women, who take his side in everything … if he’s in an arguement fanatically take his side like a maniac …

  410. shinzaemon says:

    @eon from may 13 at 11:31am

    Hot Damn that was a great comment! Absolutely true. There has been some wishful thinking from new readers about finding a virginal submissive wife, as of late.

    Not. Gonna. Happen

    Take it from me, I dated my wife when she was 17, married at 24 and divorced at 34. You are there to serve her interests and when if you stop or stumble, you will be replaced.

    One must follow Rollo’s Iron Rules to the max. All of them. You need a certain level of coldness, ruthlessness and callousness to make a marriage work.

  411. MGHOW says:

    Hi. Why do so many men obsess over state sanctioned marriage? It is just a form of state control, and completely unnecessary from a religious perspective. A man can just have a religious marriage, and avoid most if not all legal trouble that way. Though it can be tricky to find a woman who accepts it…

  412. Hopeful says:

    @mackPUA

    So I’m a new type of woman? I doubt that. I’m sure you’ve run into my type before.
    I’m 30.
    Thanks for the tips.
    I’m a homebody, which doesn’t help me so I make room in my schedule to go out.

  413. greyghost says:

    Very interesting exchange Hopeful. You maybe in a position to bring something to the table. The number one thing you can do is just be a pleasant person to be around. It works wonders. It also works wonders for your own well being. Do not use being a pleasant person as a tool to get something just make it a part of your being and have faith in christ

  414. mackPUA says:

    @Hopeful

    I strongly suggest you try & socialise with at least 3 or 4 men, obviously no sex

    They should be casual socialising, enough to get the men interested in you

    Do not pin your hopes on a single person … always have a backup plan

    This is the best way for you to make up for lost time …

    Obviously keep the person you’re seeing at the moment as serious …

    Also try & workout, get yourself a fitness regime & visit Athol Kays website, & ask on his forum for advice if you need good solid relationship game help

    Athol Kay is also a christian, but his site focuses on game, designed for relationships

    If you need advice from me, make a post here, I usually check dalrocks

  415. thehumanscorch says:

    So, let’s get this straight.
    They want a man to surrender half of his assets, his house, car, the rest of his working years, and full custody of his children, in exchange for a body they’ve been handing out like candy since Jr. high school, a bunch of student loans, no domestic skill, and buckets of attitude.

    Pass.

  416. They Call Me Tom says:

    Greyghost “Very interesting exchange Hopeful. You maybe in a position to bring something to the table. The number one thing you can do is just be a pleasant person to be around. It works wonders. It also works wonders for your own well being. Do not use being a pleasant person as a tool to get something just make it a part of your being and have faith in christ.”

    Pleasant girls have a way of becoming attractive, and unpleasant women a way of becoming ugly, no matter where they start from physically. Obviously there’s only so much ground that can be covered, but that amount of ground is pretty substantial. Not to mention that one can become a more pleasant person without any true physical barriers, while they can only improve upon their physical impression to a certain degree.

    Physical maintenance is important of course, but self improvement as a person can get more miles out of the work one has done in their physical upkeep. True self improvement though, being more pleasant, not the false self improvement of inflating one’s ego.

  417. Perspective says:

    @Mark Minter
    “And this 31 year truly grossed me out.
    She was a lawyer that worked for the most prestigious law firm in Texas, Jaworski. He had been the Lawyer that had represented Nixon during Watergate. She was set in life. Had I been a woman and she a man, then it would been a huge coup for me. And I had walked around her expensive condo and looked at the books on her shelves, the art on her walls, and thought how I had enjoyed her conversation, thought what it would be like to have an educated and accomplished woman in my life. And I truly wanted it to work out. She definitely wanted to pursue a relationship with me and everything was good to go.
    Until I slept with her.
    And I ditched her almost immediately and went back to my 25 year old girlfriend, who I almost immediately married.”

    Interesting post. Although I’m well aware that most men prefer women 18-24, and that men generally do not consider 30 plus women as desirable as their younger counterparts, it’s rare that I hear them being described with such revulsion. Do you mind if I ask what exactly turned you off so much? Skin, weight, number of previous partners?

  418. Luke says:

    Hopeful, if you want to meet good guys (employed, healthy, unmarried), I suggest going to Alaska or western North Dakota (Williston/Dickinson). There are tons of men like that there.

  419. Lincoln says:

    I love reading this blog even though I do not often post. I do not believe in God but this is not a hindrance here. I support exposing the feminization of the Christian church.

  420. Eliezer Ben-Yehuda says:

    >> Ask yourself do I really have a realistic shot at locking up a young girl for marriage?

    In LA? No. But what’s to stop him from waiting for a bob in the house market, sell the house, buy an annuity with the proceeds, then go retire in a province capital in northern Thailand, and live like a King incarnate?

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