How to undermine your parents’ marriage for fun and drama.

Very often the whispers come from within your own family.  Sometimes they come from mothers to daughters, and other times they come from daughters to mothers.  “She” at Yahoo Answers Marriage and Divorce shows us how it is done with My parents don’t seem happy together?

Ok, this isn’t a “they fight a lot” situation. This is just in general. Ok so, my dad usually gets my mom these cute cards for special occasions and flowers. He does that every time. The thing is, he’s never done anything really special that will surprise her.

Most husbands get their wife rings, or diamonds. it’s not unappreciative, because we already know he does too much trying to make money and keep us happy, and we do appreciate that, but a relationship, especially in marriage should be exciting and satisfying. Not predictable and boring.

I don’t mean to be nosy with their marriage, but I just want my mom to be happy. she doesn’t say anything to my dad b/c she doesn’t wanna seem mean and greedy, becuase she’s not. but I couldn’t help but point it out (I have a big mouth) to my dad..and he screamed at me not to talk like that.

I’m not trying to play some innocent act, but I was only trying to help. was i wrong about all this? Because I talked to my mom, and she agreed that my dad never spices up anything..but she said “it’s ok, I’m used to it now” and started laughing, but later I hear her sniffling and she’s all sad. I feel like she’s unhappy that he doesn’t really make a by effort to keep the marriage going and more happy..

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85 Responses to How to undermine your parents’ marriage for fun and drama.

  1. krauserpua says:

    Presumably she’ll write a follow-up article pointing out what her mom could do better to make her father happy.

  2. All ye men, bow down to the god of romanticism. Pay it tribute so as to avoid a wife thinking a marriage is a boring duty instead of the romantic adventure it should be. Then you wimmenz of your worship shall reward thee on bended knee.

  3. Today’s self-help culture never ceases to amaze me. Depressed? Try approaching life from a positive perspective. You’ll feel better and enjoy life more. Don’t like doing basic chores? Work hard at them and enjoy your sense of achievement when you finish a job well done.

    Marriage on the rocks? Drop that dead weight like he’s going out of style.

    Apparently marriages are the only place where an attitude change can’t save you according to modern conventional wisdom.

  4. Isaac Jordan says:

    “Nearly all children nowadays were horrible. What was worst of all was that by means of such organizations as the Spies they were systematically turned into ungovernable little savages, and yet this produced in them no tendency whatever to rebel against the discipline of the Party. On the contrary, they adored the Party and everything connected with it… All their ferocity was turned outwards, against the enemies of the State, against foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals. It was almost normal for people over thirty to be frightened of their own children.”

  5. Natalie says:

    Oh jeesh. First we tell single people to embrace the gift and not be lonely and then we tell married people to never be unhappy over anything. I got news for the kid – it’s ok for her mom to be a little disappointed that her husband isn’t the grand romantic gesture type. To quote Princess Bride “Life is pain. Anyone who tells you different is selling something.” On the other hand, she has a husband who remembers to buy cards and flowers on holidays. Yippee! Some woman would give their right hand if they got flowers or a card just once. Sometimes I wish my husband would give me sparkly rings like I saw my dad buy for my mom. On the other hand my marriage is 10x healthier than their marriage is. So I don’t get emeralds and sapphires. Big woop. I have a man who cares about me and provides for me. Keep your disappointments small and focus on the big picture.

    And if that girl really wanted to help her mom she’d call up her dad and talk to him about maybe making one of those gestures. Maybe he didn’t realize she’s always secretly wanted to go skinny dipping or watch the sunrise from Clingman’s Dome or see a Broadway show. And by talk to I mean call him up and say “Hey Dad, Mom and I were talking about so-n-so, and it struck me that would be a great birthday present. I just wanted to let you know.”

  6. Anonymous says:

    My dad’s wife also loves undermining my marriage for fun and drama, which are redundant terms to her. No more than 6 months into my marriage she took my wife aside and told her about some things that I “needed” to be doing in my legal career. This had the awesome effect of planting the seed in my wife’s mind that I wasn’t making enough money ($90,000 in 2003) and that she needed to start telling me so and frequently asking me what I was doing to remedy this problem. With family like that, who needs enemies.

  7. Athor Pel says:

    I doubt very seriously that her Dad “screamed” at her.

  8. K_C says:

    I doubt very seriously that her Dad “screamed” at her.

    Exactly my thoughts as well. This is partly a ‘kid’ thing as mine sometimes object to their mom ‘yelling’ at them even when she was doing nothing of the sort (I think they are bit sheltered in that they have no idea what real yelling is like to experience, but I want to keep it that way), but it’s also the whole fear of male anger. Any perceived ‘negative’ emotion expressed by a man (chiefly anger) is treated as one small step from extreme violence.

  9. A short post with tons of information buried in it, way more stuff than just the fact that the whispers are flowing from the daughter. When you combine this with the crap on the Huffington Puffington Post article Solomon linked is it any wonder Christian men, when weighed down with the supplication messages anyway, wear themselves out and achieve epic fail in marriage?

    but a relationship, especially in marriage should be exciting and satisfying. Not predictable and boring

    Harlem Shake?

  10. Doc says:

    The best way to keep a woman happy, is to flirt and have other women respond to you. The woman that doesn’t worry about losing you, will be looking for another guy. It is as simple as that – a woman always has to feel she is competing with other women, and winning you. This is why players tend to have the most women. Women are self-defeating at their core, so the key is to use that to your advantage.

    Most unhappy marriages are the ones where the husband isn’t looking and the wife, doesn’t feel like she is “winning” anything others want so she becomes unhappy about having something that others aren’t trying to take from her. If your Mother isn’t happy, your Dad needs to hook up with some sweet young things and for your Mom to see him flirting and them responding – that will solve her problem…

  11. I suppose that wanting her father to be happy would be a completely alien concept. I wonder why…….

  12. Jeremy says:

    Where in time was this notion of an “exciting” marriage introduced into the water supply?? Its nonsense ladies give it up. Family making is sacrifice. Take pleasure in the success of your kids and plan for retirement.

  13. Miserman says:

    I notice that women are always posting / sharing stuff about how their children make them proud or their job makes them happy or endless bumper stickers about how happiness is found in being a mother or how awesome God is for all of the above. Given that there is rarely a word given in humble gratitude toward hard-working husbands and boyfriends, I have the distinct impression that women are trying to constantly self-feed their need for happiness. Since their husbands are not supplying the intravenous feed of surprise and happiness, I guess that they need to get their fix however they can.

  14. Dalrock says:

    @Natalie

    I got news for the kid – it’s ok for her mom to be a little disappointed that her husband isn’t the grand romantic gesture type.

    We have no reason to believe that her mother was disappointed in her father before the daughter pointed out that she should be disappointed. The daughter saw a happy marriage and stirred up discontent. This is relentless in our culture, yet very few people can spot it when it happens.

  15. whatever says:

    Oh he may have screamed at her. We have no idea how close that family is to financial disaster. Never imagine for one second that being an inch from financial disaster will stop a woman for “chasing her dreams” of spending large amounts of money.

  16. deti says:

    From the OP and the source article;

    “I don’t mean to be nosy with their marriage, but I just want my mom to be happy.”

    Dalrock: “The daughter saw a happy marriage and stirred up discontent. This is relentless in our culture, yet very few people can spot it when it happens.”

    And this is the problem. This daughter is being nosy and she means to be. The manner in which her parents conduct their marriage is none of her business. Her father was right to tell her not to say anything about it.

    I don’t know that a daughter stirring up discontent is rampant; but I do think a wife’s grrrrlfraaaaands do this “whispering”.

  17. Hf says:

    “…yet very few people can spot it when it happens.”

    This is true, and it blows my mind. Not to mention, so very frustrating.

    Also, rather than the girl being screamed at, its more likely that the dad’s response was firm or stern.

  18. MPK says:

    Maybe this girl’s mom doesn’t spice anything up either…? What goes around comes around.

  19. Jeremy says:

    A child, an 18 drain on financial and temporal resources of a couple, asking mom why dad wasn’t making their marriage more exciting, is just about the absolute epitome of irony.

  20. drnamtac says:

    We have no idea how close that family is to financial disaster. Never imagine for one second that being an inch from financial disaster will stop a woman for “chasing her dreams” of spending large amounts of money.
    -whatever

    You can frame that. I’m living in the mess from that truth.

  21. Buck says:

    Confession,
    I used to really try to do great creative things for Mrs Buck on the required occasions (blue pill ). It’s been 20 years of marriage, about 7 years ago, Mrs Buck started the ol complain about everything routine. Fomented by her bitter, angry and/or recently divorced associates.
    I learned of red pills and I started to nix everything she complained about; buying her clothes, flowers, candy, jewelry, cards.
    First, life became great, no more fretting over “Hallmark” contrived occasions.
    I waited for her to mention something, it took 3 years, but sure enough, I got the ol, “you used to…..”
    I told her, well dear you opened you pie hole and complained, so hey, I’m a quick study, who am I to cause you to complain, further, if you think you can do better, by all means go-for-it!!!
    Gee she now appreciates tokens of affection.

    When asked what I want I always say the same thing…NOTHING!
    If I really needed or wanted something, I’m a big boy, I’ll just buy it.

  22. greyghost says:

    The daughter in this story (this is in blue pill world not re pill world we corverse in) truely thought she was doing right. She learned what society tells little girls every day. she stood up and made an observation based on what she had learned and bravely stood up and made her obsevations known. She was helping her mom be happy. Just like dad was doing and society does make all moms (women) happy. Blue pill land has that as top priority. In the feminized blue pill world she is a good girl. In the red pill world she is an example(another) of the herd trying to destroy marriages.
    We are too the point that we may need to define the red or blue of good or bad. A good solid man in blue pill world is a destructive beta inabler of wicked selfishness as seen with red pill eyes.

  23. T says:

    It’s a shame that her mother didn’t also tell her that this was none of her business and to stay out of it. Or say that she was grateful for her husband and why. A grown woman should not be so susceptible to “whispers” that her child pointing out that things aren’t perfect is enough to reduce her to tears.

  24. Thornstruck says:

    but I couldn’t help but point it out (I have a big mouth) to my dad..and he screamed at me not to talk like that.

    Idealistically, the Father having swallowed the red pill, will take this as a teachable moment for his young daughter about Solipsism and female herd mentality.

    @krauserpua
    Exactly.

  25. Nate says:

    Regardless of the daughters intentions, this is straight up evil.

  26. Morticia says:

    It isn’t the husbands job to keep the relationship non-boring. That is the wife’s job. Man brings home bacon…wife cooks it in a sexy apron and serves it to him in bed. I have no idea where the roles got reverse here, but it is asinine.

  27. Chris says:

    Well Morticia is right. So, young spawn of my loins…
    1. I made you, with your mother. You owe us.
    2. You are 18. If you don’t like it, leave. If you stay here, my rules.
    3. I put the food on this table. Your Mum and I bust our asses to do this. If you leave, you have to do it yourself.
    4. What we do in our bedroom and between us is not your business. Disagree? Do you want me to start coaching your boyfriend.
    5. You talked to the counsellor at school? R-i-g-h-t. You are grounded until (70h work) is done. I will call school and inform them that you will attend class only. I do not give that woman permission to talk to you. You have rights? Well, lawyers charge $400 an hour to enforce them. I can afford one. I won’t pay for yours.
    —-
    If you don’t like it, put on your big girl panties and live your live. You are legally an adult: you have to pay your own way.
    You are always welcome here, but under our roof, our rules.
    ___
    Yes, I am a misgynist, My house, my rules.

  28. Natalie says:

    @Dalrock

    I suppose I wasn’t clear enough. She might have convinced her mom to be disappointed (evil), or she might have discovered it. She might be disappointed /for/ her mom because she (mom) supposedly deserves better. Part of the problem I saw with the story being told is that we tell single people they should be happy and fulfilled and then turn around and tell married people they should never be disappointed. It’s ridiculous. Any disappointment becomes a time to point fingers and lay blame when really disappointment is a normal part of life that people should start learning to deal with as toddlers. Shake it off and go on with your life.

  29. Phantasmagoria says:

    In the words of Grandpa Joe from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, this child needs a good kick in the pants. Possibly multiple ones. The sheer amount of ungratefulness is shocking.

  30. sunshinemary says:

    Deti wrote:

    I don’t know that a daughter stirring up discontent is rampant; but I do think a wife’s grrrrlfraaaaands do this “whispering”.

    Oh yes. You have no idea. Oh the ways that women and girls find to undermine each other…it’s never ending.

    I’m thinking of an example just from today; my eldest daughter has gorgeous, waist-length hair. When she does that thing girls do when they toss their hair over their shoulder while speaking with a boy, the boy to whom she is speaking tends to forget what he’s saying. Her hair is one of her best features. But lately, guess what her little “girlfriends” have been trying to convince her to do? Get a pixie cut, as she informed me this morning. I had to talk to her about how girls will sabotage each other’s attractiveness and relationships with boys.

    And if you are a married woman, other women will try to whisper poison in your ear. Many years ago, when HHG and I were separated, the top three people egging me on to divorce were: our marriage counselor, my mother, and my girlfriends. The Holy Spirit aided me in ignoring all three of them, praise be to Him.

    @ Chris
    Your 6:44 comment made me LOL.

  31. T says:

    @ Natalie – She might have convinced her mom to be disappointed (evil), or she might have discovered it.

    I see what you mean. Sometimes the people whispering are actually giving good well meaning advice or are just noticing something that you were already feeling.

  32. greyghost says:

    I see what you mean. Sometimes the people whispering are actually giving good well meaning advice or are just noticing something that you were already feeling.

    Damn!

  33. “Most husbands get their wife rings, or diamonds. it’s not unappreciative, because we already know he does too much trying to make money and keep us happy, and we do appreciate that, but…”

    Mortified. I would be absolutely mortified if my daughter wrote this. Beside myself at how much I have failed as a mother. Having a teenage daughter, I have come to understand that it is my responsibility to kick the crap out of that entitlement attitude. I have them look around and see all that has been provided to us. They are not allowed to take one thing for granted, no food, no clothes, no electronics, nothing. It is all from their father’s provision and sacrifice for us. It is their daily gift from him. He’s injured and can not drive, I do all of the driving. So, for my birthday, he sent me to the store to purchase the most awesome camera I could ever dream of owning. He was on the phone while I was at the store telling him which ones to choose from. Yesterday, Valentine’s Day, he wasn’t feeling well and was able to rest peacefully all day. My gift to him – a day of peace and quiet. His gift to me – the last 17 years of provision.

  34. Maybe Mom was crying because she realized she raised a horrible, conniving, evil bitch of a daughter. Yikes.

  35. Dalrock,

    A friend of mine who spent sometime in the horn of Africa told me of a disturbing phenomena. Similar in ways to your above comment “on spreading discontent”. I can’t properly remember the name but it sounds like: Fatina. It means; Whispers that Kill. If you wish to kill someone or make there life miserable you start with a campaign of whispering rumors and what not within the community. The target begins to lose friends, becomes unemployed and eventually commits suicide. You could say that the witch burnings many centuries ago had a a very similar ‘epidemiology’, especially among the women, who were usually very good practitioners of this art.

    It appears that western society has “whispers that divorce”

  36. xxxxx says:

    No way was this written by a bona fide “daughter”. More likely “ghost” written by one of those marketeers from the divorce/dating industry, probably as authentic as Sara Susannah Katz and her secret millionaire handyman in Single in the Suburbs. Any adult child knows in the back of his/her mind that any inheritance he/she may hope to expect will be frittered away by their divorced parents’ pathetic attempts to find new exciting younger lovers. It is the divorce/dating industry which has a financial interest in unlocking the financial capital that long married couples have built up over the years, only to be spent chasing the elusive dream of love and romance. No prizes for guessing who goes laughting all the way to the bank.

  37. Opus says:

    I am not exactly certain what point Dalrock is making here. Having looked at Yahoo (where the daughter lapses into CAPS-LOCK thumping), I gain the impression that this young lady is no older than her mid-teens: It is a difficult age, where ones drive exceeds ones wisdom. Consider (if you are British) the recent loss of control by Chris Huhne’s son; a loss I fear he is going in time to regret for the rest of his life (as he sabotages his Father’s career and ensures a spell in prison for him – although you may well say it could not happen to a nicer person). Sometimes it is perhaps better not to take things too seriously, especially brain-dumps on Yahoo.

  38. #1) I wonder if there is some overarching theory that makes men responsible for the happiness and contentment of the entire rest of the world? I wonder if somehow or another any discontentment or dissatisfaction could be attributed to the most convenient man available? This idea doesn’t have to be rational or fair it just has to give us someone to blame when we don’t get our unicorn pony.

    #2) I for one am very disappointed in life, I haven’t earned my first million, or been hired as a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, I feel as if my life hasn’t been lived up to it’s fullest potential. I wonder if their is a way I can blame my wife? That way we could (possibly) be responsible for each others disappointments thereby finding happiness together? Could it work?

  39. Lets summarize

    He is responsible for providing (damn well better be!)
    He is responsible for protecting
    He is responsible for making his wife feel safe (unrelated to protection, er, somehow)
    He is responsible for the environment, egal share of housework
    He is responsible for spiders and repairs
    He is responsible for planning
    He is responsible for her happiness
    He is responsible for their sex life or its lack
    He is responsible for mind reading (he should just know)
    He is responsible for communication
    He is responsible for devotionals and Bible reading and prayer
    He is responsible for leading , knowing what is the right thing aligns with her
    He is responsible for creating escapes for her responsibilities

    But dang it, he is so boring to that woman, she therefore cries a lot

  40. judgybitch says:

    Where does this idea that marriage should be exciting come from?!

    My husband is super boring. I know it, he knows it, we all know it. There are no sweeping romantic gestures in my life, no tenderly penned sonnets waiting for me on Valentine’s Day, no exhuberant declarations of love, no dramatic proclomations of daily adoration.

    There are also no weeping fits of jealousy, no angry tirades, no tantrums or obessions or accusations.

    In other words, my husband is mature, emotionally stable, completey reliable and dependable and I couldn’t love him more.

    From the outside, I know our marriage looks really boring, and I have definitely been on the receiving end of “whispers”. But from the inside, my marriage is like a warm blanket. It’s predictable and stable and safe and the one place I can be myself knowing exactly what will happen and why and when.

    After a day at work, having to constantly navigate the reactions of others, I know the last thing in the world my husband wants is to come home and have to try and predict how I’m going to think or act or feel. And quite frankly, I don’t want to do that either. I don’t WANT him to surprise me with some out of character action.

    Yeah, we’re boring. We know each other inside and out. That’s what makes our marriage so comforting!

  41. Pingback: It’s Every Day « On the Rock

  42. CoffeeCrazed says:

    “I feel like she’s unhappy…” Hamster by proxy.

  43. Elspeth says:

    Where does this idea that marriage should be exciting come from?!

    This is the $1,000,000 question. Our culture is spoiled, depraved, and stupid. A cocktail so deadly we even have children whispering divorce to their own parents.

    Ugh.

  44. The mother probably feels humiliated because her own daughter pities her. So much wrong here it’s hard to enumerate, but the commenters are on the right track. The mother raised this daughter and has had a huge influence. That the father’s influence has been undercut is clear from his emphatic reaction, meaning the daughter is far from being on the same page with her father–they are in separate books! The feedback loop between mother and daughter threatens this entire household. Shame that the father let it get so far out of hand, but the mother is reaping what she has been sowing: the daughter was not properly shown how to respect her father, in all likelihood. The daughter’s lack of respect for both parents and their marriage is a destructive force come full circle. Sad.

  45. leo says:

    I have noticed that when a woman is messing with someone, she goes out of her way to deny whatever it is she is actually doing :

    “I’m not trying to play some innocent act.”

    I think she knows exactly what she is doing, and is only asking the question on Yahoo to get strangers to help her feel better about it.

    She is crowd sourcing her hamster.

  46. Natalie says:

    @T

    Not exactly where I was going with that. I guess I’m not expressing myself clearly right now. When I say “discovered” I mean the mom might have let slip that she would really enjoy receiving a grand gesture – it could be as simple as mentioning with a little wistful sigh that her best friend got swept off to a cabin in Tennessee for five days of wildflowers and sunshine with a massage thrown in at the end. That admission is not the problem. The problem is when the hearer, instead of encouraging the wife to appreciate her husband’s good qualities, starts commiserating about how men really aren’t romantic creatures and how most of them take their wives for granted and are just too lazy/stingy/unimaginative for words. Disappointment isn’t the problem. Growing disappointment into discontent and envy is a problem.

    I actually read a good blog post on this some time ago. If you are a woman gifted with a man who brings you flowers every Friday and your best friend is a woman who is grateful to get a card on her birthday then you are in a difficult spot because every time your friend comes over and sees those flowers on the table she’s reminded of the difference between what she wants and what she gets. At this point the best thing the woman with flowers can do for her friend is to help actively tamp down the whispers so that she can focus on how good her husband is with the children and how much his brothers/co-workers/friends respect him or whatever other exemplary qualities he has. She can be disappointed, but she can’t just hang out there and dwell on it.

    @SSM

    I had more than one woman tell me I should get a pixy cut. I’m assuming that I should look back on it as a compliment that they thought I was worth taking down a peg :)

  47. Bobbye says:

    Morticia says:
    February 15, 2013 at 6:01 pm
    It isn’t the husbands job to keep the relationship non-boring. That is the wife’s job. Man brings home bacon…wife cooks it in a sexy apron and serves it to him in bed. I have no idea where the roles got reverse here, but it is asinine.

    the roles reversed when the cultural power reversed. women are now in control of all institutions.

  48. Mark Minter says:

    Dal,

    For what its worth, I think I am starting to see signs that writings, like those in this blog, and in my opinion, particularly this blog, are starting to have a telling influence.

    I was just on this website, MyDailyMoment (I leave off the extensions so I don’t create a link). It is click factory with lists for women, five reasons to stay with him, five reasons to leave him, five reasons to know he is the one, five reasons to know he isn’t the one, etc. And conveniently each of the five reasons is on a different page that causes all the page to have to be redrawn and pulls in 60% of the displayable space in ads or links to monetized things, those high quality, definitely not a “scam”, things live “Trainers hate him”, “This little secret can save you 90% on your car insurance”, and that special one, “The mom’s secret to white teeth”.

    I just looked at the article “5 reasons to know he is the one”. And these articles are recycled over and over maybe with different wording for the different “reasons”. And so they are institutionalized forms of “Whispers”. And can be interpreted by any woman that is reading in any way that works for her rationalization process. “He shares your values”. So if the man maybe doesn’t like Feminism, or share the same political viewpoints on gun control, one whether or not you should be allowed to run up credit card debt, or the color of towels in the bathroom, or even what kids should eat, what sports they should play, what TV they should watch, or watch cleaning products should be used, then you go, he fails. And there are others that are entirely “flexible”. Another is, “You can be yourself around him”. I don’t even need to go into how workable that one is. “He should accept you without trying to change you, flaws and all.” But of course it is perfectly fine for her to pound on that mine to change him and withhold sex unless she sees the desired results. And the supreme reason, the “get out jail card”, all the “dueces” and “joker” wildcards rolled into the one that lets the hamster run, full out, at red line, “Your intuition tells you that he is or isn’t the one”. Yes, intuitive thinking is always infinitely superior to rational thinking, those processes ‘those men” use with all their data and truths. It cannot stack up to their sheer efficiency of intuition without the need for all that “thinking”.

    And these articles are nothing compared to “5 reasons to leave him”, “5 Reasons to kick him to the curb” and many others.

    But what was interesting was the comments.

    Every other comment was from a man, blasting these sorts of articles, all using verbiage that could be taken from the pages of Dalrock, if not exactly in content, then definitely in spirit and intent.

    One effect this is having is that it is now forcing this site away from these “hook” stories that dominated the front page even a few months ago into writing more general women’s stories, recipes, Kim Kardashian’s baby bump, diet tips. Of course these stories are still a big part of the page. “5 signs he’s cheating”, but even that link showed the first comment and it was from a man saying “Ok, so I guess it’s always the guy cheating? Never … – jim “.

    So, more types of men than just a few bitter, damaged men like me are now wading in and starting to throw.

    I told you that you were Luther.

  49. Martian Bachelor says:

    Among the Abanua of Africa, an appreciate wife, to prove the great affection which she felt for her husband, would secretly pinch pennies and save up to buy him a young and pretty slave girl.

    “She” evidently comes from the sort of poor village where they get the slave girls from. The parents are glad to be rid of her, as well as her “uterine liability”, in exchange for a small windfall.

  50. Where does this idea that marriage should be exciting come from?!

    I’ve been wondering about the influence of TV romances. Romance novels are old news, of course. But when a woman reads a romance novel, the romantic roller coaster in the story finishes its ups and downs in the hours and days that it takes her to read it, and then they live happily ever after. Likewise with a chick flick movie, there may be all sorts of drama and excitement, but it’s over in a couple hours.

    On TV, though, it’s different. How many shows have a couple who are attracted to each other in the pilot, but they go through several years of drama, getting together and breaking up, cheating on each other, trying out other relationships and sexual encounters, and so on, until they finally get together “for good” in the finale because the fans insisted on it. Ross and Rachel may be the most famous example, but it’s a pretty common trope.

    So I’ve wondered how much that causes women to feel like it’s normal for a relationship to consist of, or at least start with, multiple years of roller coaster drama.

  51. Martian Bachelor says:

    Ababua (blame auto-correct)

  52. mackPUA says:

    @Natalie

    Or you could tell your friend who only gets a card on her birthday … typical sob story from a woman …. to grow a backbone & quit deliberately trying to destroy your marriage …

    You could also get yourself a new bff, with a few braincells to rub together …

    Try applying logic over emotions … & some serious backbone

    Are you seriously trying to stand up for a hypothetical woman who wants to destroy your marriage?

    Team woman much?

  53. Natalie says:

    @mackPUA

    “The problem is when the hearer, instead of encouraging the wife to appreciate her husband’s good qualities, starts commiserating about how men really aren’t romantic creatures and how most of them take their wives for granted and are just too lazy/stingy/unimaginative for words.”

    I pretty expressly said that women should support each other in respecting their husband and being content in their marriages. So, to review. Commiseration = Bad. Encouragement in respect and contentment = Good.

    Methinks you skimmed.

  54. Novaseeker says:

    Where does this idea that marriage should be exciting come from?!

    I’ve been wondering about the influence of TV romances. Romance novels are old news, of course. But when a woman reads a romance novel, the romantic roller coaster in the story finishes its ups and downs in the hours and days that it takes her to read it, and then they live happily ever after. Likewise with a chick flick movie, there may be all sorts of drama and excitement, but it’s over in a couple hours.

    On TV, though, it’s different. How many shows have a couple who are attracted to each other in the pilot, but they go through several years of drama, getting together and breaking up, cheating on each other, trying out other relationships and sexual encounters, and so on, until they finally get together “for good” in the finale because the fans insisted on it. Ross and Rachel may be the most famous example, but it’s a pretty common trope.

    So I’ve wondered how much that causes women to feel like it’s normal for a relationship to consist of, or at least start with, multiple years of roller coaster drama.

    I think does have an influence. I think that a good number of younger women in particular just like a lot of excitement in terms of unpredictability, surprises, unexpected things and so on. It’s a bigger difference between the sexes, I think. There are certainly thrill-seeking men, but most of them aren’t married guys, and very few guys are looking to marriage for excitement and unpredictability — that’s like living in hell for the average married man, really. But there is a sizeable chunk of women, at least in the US, who are simply “bored” by stability. I think it’s to some degree a personality issue, and it’s certainly reinforced by the culture. As a guy, I honestly think that’s a big red flag in terms of evaluating a woman as a wife.

  55. willis668 says:

    I have come to believe that women are born as horrible creatures and that few ever learn, or are taught, how to behave appropriately.

  56. How many of the answers were red pill? The Yahoo! admins deleted the question.

  57. tickletik says:

    @willis

    They seem to be designed to want to be mastered. I have always been amazed st the amount of genuine love and affection women show men who firmly put them in “their place”

  58. Opus says:

    Are women designed to by mastered? I have been watching the 1956 Movie, The Conqueror, wherein John Wayne – in a wonderful toupee – spends most of his screen time slapping Susan Heywood around (and, as usual, when not doing that slapping the male members of the cast). ‘You are beautiful in your wrath’ he says to Heywood as her picks her up and carries her to his tent (Wayne is playing Genghis Khan). There is a Rape scene but frankly Heywood puts up little resistance. I suppose that these days this will all be seen as a Rape-culture-movie. Fortunately for us, Heywood is not able to bail out by making a false accusation, as there is no one to make it to. Wayne also spends the movie concerned about ‘The Markets’ – at least that is what it sounds like. With only a 3.2 rating on Imdb, I’d say ‘sell’.

  59. tickletik says:

    @Opus

    There is a scene from gone with the wind where Cary Grant angrily picks up Vivien Leigh, and carries her up the stairs to the bedroom. Two interesting points about that scene:

    1. for once she stops fighting and totally surrenders to him.

    2. In the morning she wakes up with a HUGE smile on her face.

  60. tickletik says:

    Correction: clark Gable not Cary Grant

  61. Step father says:

    My stepson, who was cultured in blue pill until I arrived, has also recently started spreading discontent. From some of the language, I suspect it derives in part from his girlfriend.

    It has taken its toll, as he fled to his father’s house (and 3rd wife) a couple of years ago, and can spread discontent w/ virtual immunity.

  62. wibbins says:

    Guys, why else does the Bible say “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.”

    It’s well known women are gossipers, they hunger for power, they desire men who have power which indirectly gives them that power seeing as they control sex, ever done things you never would have had it not been a woman whispering “rewards” in your ear? This is why they are commanded to be submissive, women can be quite deceitful when they wish to be.

    I told my fiancee that if anyone comes and tells her that I’m not making her haaappyyyyy to tell them that it’s none of their business.

  63. Opus says:

    @tickletik

    You are to be forgiven your lapse: Almost every Movie Star has the initials C and G

    Cary Grant
    Gary Cooper
    Clark Gable
    George Clooney

  64. Höllenhund says:

    “Where in time was this notion of an “exciting” marriage introduced into the water supply??”

    I think it’s rooted in the general sense of instability and unpredictability present in current Western societies. The old traditions and religiosity have all collapsed. Average people can no longer attach importance to the afterlife, cannot orient their lives around their professions (more and more jobs are transient), cannot find pride in belonging to a traditional culture. So they seek fulfillment and purpose where they can. That’s the origin of hedonism. That’s why sex has become the main source of self-worth and identity, the main life function in the mainstream culture.

    People want to have lots of good sex for many years before they settle down, because…well, what other purpose can you find for your life? Your job is transient, your relationships are unstable, your family home (if you have one) is unstable, the traditions of your parents and grandparents are dead, and nobody gives a damn about what happens in the long run. Not only do people want exciting marriages, they also want exciting and fulfilling careers, adventurous vacations and so on. Why? Because that’s all you’ll have. You’re just an average, perishable human. You have 2 or 3 decades to enjoy. Then you get old and sick, and then you die. And that’ll be it for you. Game over. God won’t reward you. You won’t get reborn in another form or something.

  65. Anonymous says:

    Mommy, you’re not bored, you’re not “haaapy,” and should divorce Daddy and take the house and all his money– I’ll get you started by introducing you to some of my friends’ hot divorced fathers who always have women around them, that’ll make you feel better!

  66. Martian Bachelor says:

    From the It Doesn’t Get Any More Twisted Than This Dept.: Woman Marries Twin Sister’s Killer

    Where in time was this notion of an “exciting” marriage introduced into the water supply??

    Most recently… when feminism started saying Marriage (for women) = Oppression, the idea was that women would be liberated from domestic drudgery to finally pursue a lifetime of romantic adventure and sexual fulfillment that marriage was preventing them from having.

    Then they decided they wanted that plus commitment from the guy, if they deemed him good enough, in the olde fashioned way,

    Voila! You’re right back in Let’s-Have-Our-Cake-and-Eat-It-Too Land.

  67. muah says:

    “This question has been deleted”. Successful troll is successful!!!!

  68. Is this an example of a girl projecting her inmature love thoughts (i.e: in love feelings should last forever and once they don’t it’s time to break up)?
    Or is this someone wanting her father to alpha up and game her mother? But game isn’t about diamongs and beta gifts, right?

    Either way, I think I’m gonna become a MGMOW. I refuse to be gaming a girl ad infinitum just so that she never becomes unhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaappy. It’s time to cut with the female crap.

  69. Anonymous Reader says:

    I’m curious, is there any time where “whispering” and “interfering” with the marriage of another might be a good thing? Perhaps there are biblical examples of this being done?

  70. Stingray says:

    Anonymous Reader,

    I don’t know if there are biblical examples of this, but I think *whispers* can be a good thing. I try to quietly whisper to a couple of women who come to me for advice from time to time. Whisper to them to respect their husband and here’s why. Look around you. Look at what he has given you. Honestly, woman . . . what do you have to complain about? The looks on their faces are of shock and sometimes horror, because they know they have lost sight of that important fact. They very often go right back to doing what they were doing but for that second they opened their eyes a bit. It can make a difference.

    Though, I have also found that living the example gets noticed just as much if not more. I have gotten some pretty shocking comments.

  71. Sherlock says:

    “I don’t know if there are biblical examples of this, but I think *whispers* can be a good thing. I try to quietly whisper to a couple of women who come to me for advice from time to time. Whisper to them to respect their husband and here’s why. Look around you. Look at what he has given you. Honestly, woman . . . what do you have to complain about? The looks on their faces are of shock and sometimes horror, because they know they have lost sight of that important fact. They very often go right back to doing what they were doing but for that second they opened their eyes a bit. It can make a difference.

    Though, I have also found that living the example gets noticed just as much if not more. I have gotten some pretty shocking comments.”

    One of the things I love about the red pill is how people start to spread it to the people arround them. It seems taking the pill leads to a desire to change things in most people and the ripple effects of that can be large. Also, this is an example of rebuilding a culture from the ground up in an extremely rational way. Based on wisdom developed in the sphere people change behavior in ways such as Stingray exemplifies here and for example start to point out to women who are upset about their husbands what they should be thankfull for. Eventually the norms arround how we behave and what we tell each other etc. will be turned upside down in a good way.

  72. @stingray, @sherlock, @anonymous reader

    Titus 2:3-5:

    3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, 4 and SO TRAIN THE YOUNG WOMEN TO LOVE THEIR HUSBANDS AND CHILDREN, 5 to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.

  73. Anonymous Reader says:

    I mean whispers against the husband’s interests, Stingray. Like, if God decided that a given man, godly or otherwise, must be denied an obedient little helpmeet and that therefore someone working towards the end of sabotaging the arrangement is essentially doing God’s work, according to biblical precedent.

  74. Stingray says:

    Anonymous Reader,

    That sounds like something that Gregoire woman is doing. I can’t see where a woman whispering would be helpful to a man ever deciding whether or not he needs a wife/helpmeet in his life. That would be between the man and God, I would think. Womanly whispers seems] to be far to female to be part of what you are describing. A man’s vocation with God is something too masculine for this, I think. I can’t think of a better way to describe it.

  75. Anonymous Reader says:

    So, in what way is a woman ever allowed to directly defy her husband, when it’s not a matter of sin, or if he abuses his authority like by taking the Sean Connery approach or something.

    Or is the man completely indefeasible in this?

  76. Anonymous Reader says:

    How about if you create a different handle, whomever you are?

  77. Stingray says:

    Original Anonymous Reader,

    I was pretty sure after the response to my answer to her question that I wasn’t dealing with you. The Sean Connery reference nailed it for me.

    New Anon,

    Please do pick a new handle.

    You are looking for 1 Peter 3:1-6. Where you are going with this has already been hashed out here recently. There have been a couple of posts on submission and posts that the comments has turned to submission. It has already been taken to the Nth degree as you are doing here but I cannot remember what thread it occurred in. If someone else remembers where this occurred, they might be able to point you to the conversation, but I cannot. You will find your answers there.

  78. Rich Cook says:

    Judgybitch, Sunshinemary and Elspeth: You are like diamonds. in my day to day life it is like seeing a unicorn hearing a woman with mature, thankful and common sense opinions. 99.9% of the women I come in contact with give me nothing but attitude and entitlement. I am not suprised. You all provide me with a well needed break from bullshit.

  79. Lurker No. 9 says:

    Alright, changed it.

    But, would you agree that even if a particular thing requested is not sinful, the manner might be enough to make the request wrong?

    And this is not to “compare men to children,” which I object to as well, but this is just the most immediate metaphor I can think of…

    Say you’re fine with your child having a cookie, but surely you’d agree that it would be wrong if he asked for it in an arrogant and entitled way, compared to a respectful way.

    So the reason I bring up Sean Connery is because he seems to be fine with giving his woman a slap once in awhile, according to that interview with Barb Walters.

    Wouldn’t such an entitled, abusive attitude be just cause for outsiders to find fault with an otherwise non-sinful husband?

  80. Stingray says:

    Lurker No. 9,

    Thank you for changing your handle. It makes things easier.

    Sure, the manner in which the request was made might be wrong. That does not mean that it is our jobs as a wife to speak to our husbands in the same manner. That is why the bible verse I pointed you to above is so brilliant. We are called to help move our husband away from sin in how we ourselves act.

    Also, I did see that Sean Connery video as well and while it’s been some time since I’ve seen it, he talks about slapping a woman who might deserve it. Now, I realize just reading that might get your defenses up and that’s fine. But, can you not ever see a situation where a woman might actually deserve to be slapped? That her own entitled and abusive attitude would be just cause for a slap?

    Thirdly, what outsiders think of a non-sinful husband who may come across to them as entitled and abusive is of no concern to them and their opinion should be of no concern to the wife. So very often what we perceive on the outside is extraordinarily different from what is truly going on inside.

  81. Lurker No. 9 says:

    I tend to believe that violence is only ever justified in self defense, not out of anger or to punish.

    It’s not just the potential for injury that makes it wrong, it’s the disrespect inherent in the act, which even if it’s a light one, the latter aspect is still there.

  82. “we already know he does too much trying to make money and keep us happy”

    The age old theme of a man not doing more to romance and keep his wife happy on top of the job, home, car, family, and security that he provides…

  83. Pingback: Why wouldn’t he take her call when she was drunk? | Dalrock

  84. I got that one yesterday on a road trip. “You haven’t given me any flowers lately”. To which I responded, “You haven’t done anything worth getting flowers for”.

    Sounds terrible. But it works. Wifey humming along like a little top lately.

  85. Lurker No. 9

    What do you recommend a man do if a woman is screeching in his face and destroying objects around the house?

    Have you ever seen an hysterical woman?

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