Will betas shrug?

The only way most men were kept in line, marching off to their dreary jobs, was with a Noble Lie, that it would make them honoured as heads of houses. You can make a man literally die for honour; but he won’t work himself to death for an ungrateful woman who regards him simply as somewhere between a joke and an oppressor.

–David Collard

When reading the 2010 State of Our Unions report for my post Whistling through the graveyard? I noticed the following quote:

Probably because of marital social norms that encourage healthy, productive behavior, men tend to become more economically productive after marriage. They earn between 10 and 20 percent more than do single men with similar education and job histories.

They cite several papers which have investigated this, and in doing just a bit of my own research I found that this is a fairly common topic of academic inquiry.  What is fascinating is the theoretical models the papers are considering.  It never occurs to them that when men marry they take on the burden of providing for a family.  Men with families earn more because they have to.  It isn’t a benefit of having a family, it is a cost.

I’m not complaining about the cost, but simply pointing out that it is what it is.  However, outside of the manosphere the world appears to be oblivious to this.  Here are the common theories studies tested when considering the fact that married men earn more than their unmarried counterparts:

  1. Married men can focus more on paid work since they are freed up from doing housework.
  2. Women can spot the men with secret potential to earn the most.  Men don’t earn more because they marry, they marry because they can earn more.
  3. Patriarchal employers are paying married men more out of the goodness of their hearts.

Obviously the courts understand the reality here which is why they threaten divorced men with imprisonment if they don’t earn enough money.  They know that the incentive to work hard to support a family is removed when the man’s family is taken away from him.  Take away the man’s family and you have taken away his reason for working harder.

But the actions by the courts are only a short term solution.  Sooner or later men in general will become aware of the new reality.  Getting married no longer is a reliable path to having a family, but the burdens will be yours for the duration either way.  In theory we would have a group in our society invested in conserving the traditional family.  If I had to make up a name for such a theoretical group, I’d call them Traditional Conservatives.

Now that I mention it, we already have a group by that name and with those stated goals.  However, they aren’t interested in ensuring that the traditional patriarchal model of the family is protected*.  Instead, almost all of them have made it a habit to cut men off at the knees.  Their unwritten agreement with feminists has been and continues to be to hold men down while feminists rob them.

In one sense I can see where the Trad Cons are coming from.  They are only trying to conserve today’s culture, and have already swallowed yesterday’s feminism whole*.  From their point of view they need to make sure men keep signing up to do the additional work required make them attractive as a potential husband, and later after marriage take on even more work to support their new family.  But they don’t want unhappy sluts, so they can’t fight against divorce theft and the intentional shift of power to wives within marriage.  The only option this leaves them is to try to shove more men into the machinery and pretend all is well.

What the Trad Cons trying to shove more men into the hopper haven’t considered is that (surprisingly) it doesn’t seem to be men catching on that has lead to our growing batch of unmarried women.  They were so busy holding men down so the feminists could rob them that they didn’t notice that the feminists were convincing women to delay marriage past all reason.  Now we have a generation of men who didn’t get the signal to prepare for marriage.  While there is a great deal of hand-wringing that these men are shirking their economic duty to prepare to marry a washed up 30 something carouseler, hard stats are typically in short supply.

However, fellow blogger (and proof of NATCALT*) Oz Conservative had a post the other week which may back the theory up.  In his post Pay gap is now running the other way? he shares stats from the US Census which show that single women between 22 and 30 earn 8% more than single men of the same age.  I’ve seen statistics like this before, but Oz Conservative helped me connect the dots here:

But what happens when men don’t just “go with the flow” but get more motivated? What happens when men start to take on family responsibilities and settle into a stronger work ethic? At that point in time, men start to earn more than women, many of whom are downscaling their work commitments.

But when men in their 30s and 40s start to earn more, do we get the media cheering them on for their strong work ethic? No, it gets presented as a great social injustice that has to be rectified by state intervention.

Oz Conservative is spot on here, but this still leaves the question of how many of today’s unattached 30 something men will be lured by the possibility of marrying an ageing career woman/former carouseler to knock themselves out career wise.  The other question is what percentage of those men who are already successful will want to roll the dice on marriage in our current legal and social climate.  This is a question which will greatly impact everything from future tax revenues to property values.  If beta men don’t perceive the incentive to take on the role of family provider it is because we as a society have spent great efforts to degrade that role.  No amount of chanting man up and marry those sluts! will change this.

*Not all Traditional Conservatives are like that

About these ads
This entry was posted in Aging Feminists, Child Custody, Foolishness, Patriarchal Dividend. Bookmark the permalink.

271 Responses to Will betas shrug?

  1. Ulysses says:

    With regard to tradcons, a Chesterton quote is appropriate:
    “The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected. Even when the revolutionist might himself repent of his revolution,the traditionalist is already defending it as part of his tradition. Thus we have two great types–the advanced person who rushes us into ruin,and the retrospective person who admires the ruins. He admires them especially by moonlight,not to say moonshine.”

    G.K. Chesterton

    [D: Brilliant!]

  2. Rock Throwing Peasant says:

    Even if the 30 somethings never read the manosphere, they are still friends with 30-something married/divorced guys. As much as there might be a societal call to “marry up” the sluts, do male peer groups call on him to do so? How much pressure do the male friends of 30-something guys exert on him?
    Female friends will pressure female friends to marry/have kids/whatever. I’m not as certain that the male peers exert the same pressure nowadays. His father may be applying pressure, of course.
    My drinking buddy is 28. He’s deployed now and has been getting major pressure from his mom and the woman he’s dating. She let is slip that the mom has actually encouraged her to go off the Pill. I let him know immediately. Oh, she said she’d never do it, but I don’t trust her one bit (28 also and the clock is CLANGING).

  3. R6T says:

    That’s pretty much me. I’m in my mid-30′s and could probably make 20% more than what I currently make if I had a family and a reason to apply myself harder at my career. But being single, I don’t need to, so I don’t. Why stress myself out?

  4. okrahead says:

    Another observation on this topic: The aging 30 something carousel rider/career girl is competing in the job market against the men she has the best chance to land (see the apex fallacy). Affirmative action programs in hiring in the U.S. assure women that they will have a better career path and higher earning potential than men in their same age/marriage/education bracket. Hence the women here cannot marry up (the alpha at the top doesn’t want them) marry at her own level (she’s competing with the betas for the same bread crumbs on the corporate plate) or down (she’d rather raise seventeen cats than hitch herself to an omega). Since marriage is out, it’ll just be more random, drunken hookups until she’s too used up to attract even the most desperate barfly. Behold, feminism triumphant.

  5. Matt Strictland says:

    While we still see many stupid men playing at the same old scripts what seems to be invisible is the vast growing population of men who are unable and soon to be unwilling to participate.

    All those under employed youth, people like the Grass Eaters of Japan and Indignados of Spain are where the real action is. That is what is essentially killing economic growth and the demography of those societies and if it continues, and it will (the governments there are unwilling and unable to create solutions) either they will be replaced by highly religious people or will have long term population shrinkage.

    Either way, its and end to feminism and liberalism.

    The Puritan West is going to ride this train too only slower as that nonsense work ethic meme is dug in deeper.

    In time however (and it is starting witness all the shaming articles) it will happen. However the time frame is slower than the elected and appointed can see thus change is inevitable.

    A last point, men are wising up to the birth control issue, that too is a big deal. Male birth control options will come and if they work, all those “baby trap” women will have a major issue to deal with. This is being delayed, its not as much a practical reason as a socio-political one. Male birth control will create both a birth drop (uncoupled births will drop nearer zero) and a eugenic push.

    Societies desperate for offspring will not be able to handle that easily.

    However any efforts are basically a delaying action, the best option a decently cheap reversible vasectomy called RISUG is in Phase 3 tests and others are being researched.

    This will have big consequences though not as profound as the pill and I can’t wait.

  6. Cadders says:

    There is another aspect to this. I have been married for 22 years. I discovered Game three and a half years ago and since then I have been implementing Game into my relationship with my wife. Our relationship is better, our sex life has massively improved and our marriage seems to grow stronger all the time. No real suprises there.

    But something else has happened as well.

    I am the wealthiest and most relaxed I have ever been in my life.

    Not because I have suddenly won massive amounts of money and live a life of leisure. Not because I have secured a high earning job. Simply because Game allowed me to be the man I was born to be. Now I lead the relationship, set boundries and make clear my expectations. My wife’s response to me (finally) behaving like a man?

    The demands for ‘stuff’ have (almost) disappeared.
    The ‘demands’ have turned into more respectful requests (‘We need’ has turned into ‘Do you think we could have…’)
    My opinions are frequently sought and considered. Not for everything but always for the bigger issues.
    No objections (indeed encouragement) when I accepted a slightly lower paying position (but with much less pressure). This may seem minor to some readers but given the place we were at before Game, this is HUGE.

    So I am wealthier because my wife simply demands, spend and consumes less.
    And I am more relxed because I am working in a less pressured environment, being treated with respect at home and getting laid like tile.

    Put simply, I no longer work so hard.

    And my wife is the most content I have ever seen her.

    So what happens to the tax base when even married men discover Game and realise that the Beta provider role they have been slogging away at for years isn’t mandatory? When in fact Game means you can have everything you want with whatever you already have?

  7. Why make the extra effort to make more? So she can cheat on him and take all his stuff after he builds up?

    Pass.

    Women have refused to settle down, get married and have children… but the response they are getting from men will create a problem where they CAN’T settle down and have kids, because guys just aren’t going to pay for them anymore. She can still get married, but have kids and stay home? Not on his hourly wage, she isn’t.

    Men can’t even get the good jobs of old, because they are all filled by f*cking WOMEN! The end result will be women supporting men while men are at home being oppressed by the housework.

    LOL

    The women will somehow (if they haven’t already) turn this around and declare that they are now oppressed by men because the women have to work at jobs all their life and can’t be stay-at-moms… and to be sure, men are to blame and the women are victims.

    I swear, the biggest misogynists out there are, in fact, women.

  8. wudang says:

    So Dalrock, when is your book coming out? You have built an impressive library of well researched arguments that now make up a very cohesive whole.

    You should really email your post to the researchers you looked into. If you google their names their email addresses probably aren`t hard to find. Some might find it an interesting argument.

  9. They are only trying to conserve today’s culture, and have already swallowed yesterday’s feminism whole*. From their point of view they need to make sure men keep signing up to do the additional work required make them attractive as a potential husband, and later after marriage take on even more work to support their new family
    ———————————————————————————-
    I will wiggle this a little bit. These particular trad cons you mention, if we look at the Christian ones specifically, are not motivated by trying to preserve todays, or yesterdays, or tomorrows feminism, they are motivated by , at any point in time for decades now, doing whatever it is they perceive the role of a man is in relation to “the weaker vessel”, whatever it is the church flavor of manning up is at that moment, and other than functional changes, the churches version of manning up has not changed that much (I’m referring specifically to the married man…..not to single men marrying the church gals, JUST the married man) The church has maintained a very chivalry based man up method. And that actually works in a world where its respected, appreciated, reciprocated, and men are not jettisoned for not standing willingly under their wives constant dark swirling emotional cloud IN ADDITION to the “regular” manning up. IOW, providing, protecting, that sort of thing was ENOUGH. It is not any more. This is a very sideways distinction Im making but an important one because………..you go on to rightly state that NATCALT, and the reason we are not is that we are not willing to recognize those things in an environment where they are not respected and routinely are not enough. We are specious about our role, especially anything that by design is a shaming tactic into putting her first, weaker vessel, etc.
    I dare say many men would still BE manned up if not for that which I am describing (perhaps inadequately)

  10. Chris says:

    In short, yes. They have already begun to shrug.

    You see this in the delay to remarriage. Most men who have been through the grinder have had their illusions popped as have their sons and friends . This has led to people delaying dating, delaying commital, and requiring some form of exit strategy.

    This will, however, change. The only people I know who are marrying young and then breeding and the staunch, fanatical believers — either orthodox Jews, Calvinists, or Traditional Catholics. They are having three to five kids. Their secular sisters have three occaisionally, commonly two, and more commonly one or none. This means — assuming that the children follow in the way they are taught — that generation Z and the following one will be much more religiously and socially conservative than the current elite.

    (The same thing is happening among Islamists too — Iran, Turkey etc are in the process of demographic collapse).

    This is where the church has to lead, if it wants to survive. There needs to be a return to the Biblical standard, and a resurrection of the sense of Honour. David Collard is correct: men will sacrifice themselves for honour. But he does not go far enough. If there is no honour, men will simply walk away.

  11. ballista74 says:

    The more that I research feminism, and think on these things, I’m convinced the end-goal of all these moves is to produce either the elimination of marriage (secular feminism) or the creation of an oppressive matriarchy where (in feminist eyes) women are liberated and men can never be in a position to oppress women ever again (religious feminism). The lack of focus regarding what a feminist looks like in the religious realm, along with a lack of an accurate definition of feminism, and a lack of understanding of how doctrine is established within Churchianity, I think contributes heavily to the moves that are being made.

    The ultimate deception is to make someone fall hook line and sinker into believing that they are something they are not. The Deceiver has used this method ever since the beginning because it’s devastatingly effective and has been all throughout the history of the Church and Churchianity. C.S Lewis (I think?) put it best when he stated that it was setting people’s work towards the devil while thinking they were doing God’s work. The list of victims is incredibly long and gets longer. The current tradcons, as it relates to feminism, is the latest example. They don’t believe they are feminists when they are, yet they are wholeheartedly chasing the feminist imperative.

  12. FFY says:

    I make decent money, nothing great. I don’t work all that hard, but at the same time I get by and then some.

    I’m taking my time, applying for new jobs when the mood strikes. I’ll be moving up soon, but there is no rush.

    With the removal of marriage as a carrot (or stick) to work harder, there is quite simply no reason for me to be in any sort of rush or to work all that much harder. I have my whole life open, and I’m only getting started.

    My friends are in the same boat. The only buddy of mine busting his ass is the one planning on marrying his girlfriend. The rest of us, meh. Living large

  13. The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected. Even when the revolutionist might himself repent of his revolution,the traditionalist is already defending it as part of his tradition. Thus we have two great types–the advanced person who rushes us into ruin,and the retrospective person who admires the ruins. He admires them especially by moonlight,not to say moonshine.”
    —————————————————————
    I dont find this quote brilliant, sorry. Its kind of the thing to say these days, isnt it, “there is no one who sees this but us few people, that the rest of all these folks, conservatives and liberals are all wrong in different ways”….however you want to word it….
    Conservative politicians…so called…certainly function under this quotes described dynamic. Conservatives as we the people, not. Its important to say that because it often gives the impression that the entire group of people calling themselves conservatives follow this mistake, and they do not do so. Pundits and most elected officials….perhaps….functionally…perhaps….but this is not an apt description of the conservative electorate. Accuse some of being gullible for shiny things (Romney/Bush/Mcain/???) , but conservaTISM is just fine.
    Things are not complicated enough for there to be some few above the fray due to said complexity.

  14. bskillet81 says:

    The more that I research feminism, and think on these things, I’m convinced the end-goal of all these moves is to produce either the elimination of marriage (secular feminism) or the creation of an oppressive matriarchy where (in feminist eyes) women are liberated and men can never be in a position to oppress women ever again (religious feminism).

    The end goal of this is the same as the beginning goal: For women to get all the benefits of beta providership while securing the alpha male genetic material they perceive as superior. Be it alimony, child support, or the welfare state, the goal is all the same: She wants to get hot alpha sex with a beta footing the bill. That’s really all it is, nothing else.

    The church has supported this by either turning a blind eye, or blaming beta men, when a woman engages in this kind of destructive behavior.

  15. ballista74 says:

    The end goal of this is the same as the beginning goal: For women to get all the benefits of beta providership while securing the alpha male genetic material they perceive as superior. Be it alimony, child support, or the welfare state, the goal is all the same: She wants to get hot alpha sex with a beta footing the bill. That’s really all it is, nothing else.

    This is the fruit and end-result of the “liberation” of women, not the ideological goals set out in political gain. These people who are setting out the laws aren’t sitting around at tables thinking on policy asking themselves “how can we assure beta male providership for women in the future”, or “how can we make it easier for women to get the alpha tail?”. In a way, you proved the point I was trying to make by this response. In chasing effect rather than cause, all you accomplish in the end is the same thing as a dog accomplishes by chasing its tail.

  16. ,..how many of today’s unattached 30 something men will be lured by the possibility of marrying an ageing career woman/former carouseler to knock themselves out career wise?

    That all depends on the demographic of men you’re referring to. Are these newly 30-something men Trad-Con evangelical, theoretical virgins, raised to believe that Quality Women™ will necessarily play by the old rules? Are these the same guys who’s ‘emergent” beliefs have left them so bereft of real world relationship experience that they’ll see marrying a single mother as their noble christian duty? Are these the same guys whose religious sexual deprivation makes marrying an Alpha Widow looking for a Beta provider look like providence from God?

    The longer a guy’s had his dick in his hand the more willing he is to buy into any rationalization that legitimately ends that deprivation.

  17. gunner451 says:

    I remember listening to Focus of the Family (years ago when James Dobson was still the host, can’t stomach it now after swallowing the red pill) Dobson was interviewing Chuck Colson on one of his new books at the time. They got into a discussion on traditional family and Dobson made the statement that he didn’t believe in male headed families but that there should be a sharing of power between the husband and wife and then went on about husbands abusing their power and the usual TradCon garbage. Colson basically agreed with him or at least did not disagree with the whole concept. It was at that point that I stopped listening to FotF. It made me realize that the TradCons were not my friend and were not really interested in what the Bible has to say about family dynamics. It also made me realize just how integrated feminist thinking is in the TradCon community.

    That said I don’t believe that the standard beta schmuck going to church will hesitate too much over marrying that used up slut that has relabeled herself a virgin. Based on my own observations these guys are desperate for a little church approved pussy and are fine with taking on a woman with all sorts of baggage (including a few kids from the last guy or guys). The real problem is that even these used up sluts are not attracted to the beta schmucks populating the feminized churches of today and regularly turn their noses up at these guys. They eventually find someone either at church or outside of church once even they cannot deny their impending hitting of the wall but for the most part they are not happy about it. The problem for most guys is that their sex drive and general horniness simply overwhelms common sense sooner or later and because the supply of real virgins is pretty much gone by the time most of them turn 16 really what choice do they have? So they make the choice even though it’s a shitty deal it’s the only one they think they’ve got.

  18. Dalrock says:

    @Empath

    I dont find this quote brilliant, sorry. Its kind of the thing to say these days, isnt it, “there is no one who sees this but us few people, that the rest of all these folks, conservatives and liberals are all wrong in different ways”….however you want to word it….
    Conservative politicians…so called…certainly function under this quotes described dynamic. Conservatives as we the people, not. Its important to say that because it often gives the impression that the entire group of people calling themselves conservatives follow this mistake, and they do not do so. Pundits and most elected officials….perhaps….functionally…perhaps….but this is not an apt description of the conservative electorate.

    This doesn’t make any sense. If I were arguing with someone else I would point to your investigation of churches. It isn’t just the top, the followers really are following the leaders. If there is some rogue conservative group out there rebelling against the Stantons, the Limbaughs, etc, kindly point me to them. With the aid of the internet the people go around their leaders when the leaders are going in the wrong direction. This isn’t happening outside the manosphere. What I would agree is that your average conservative hasn’t given his positions on the issue much thought. Many of them if forced to consider the issue might decide they aren’t for feminism after all.

  19. This doesn’t make any sense. If I were arguing with someone else I would point to your investigation of churches.
    ————————————————————
    I will explain better, short on time. I was afraid of that. Later.

  20. GKChesterton says:

    I’m not entirely sure why all the reasons don’t qualify (including Dalrocks). For example (3) was explicitly given to me (they weren’t willing to come up enough so I switched jobs and the owners were all involved in the family business). That’s why I don’t think marriage is going away. Traditional marriage is as lucrative as divorce is destructive. Economic specialization is a good thing and I’m sure (1) drives a substantial amount of the increase.

    It is also why I’m not keen on advising against marriage. Yes, you are playing a very risky game, but there are huge payouts (like male life-expectancy) for a successful pairing that aren’t _all_ costs. I’m even hesitant to analyze it in such a Marxist/Randian fashion.

  21. Dalrock says:

    @GKChesterton

    I’m not entirely sure why all the reasons don’t qualify (including Dalrocks). For example (3) was explicitly given to me (they weren’t willing to come up enough so I switched jobs and the owners were all involved in the family business).

    I’m guessing this is rare, and limited to cases where you are either married in to the family or have otherwise exceptionally close ties.

    That’s why I don’t think marriage is going away. Traditional marriage is as lucrative as divorce is destructive. Economic specialization is a good thing and I’m sure (1) drives a substantial amount of the increase.

    I think you are talking about something different altogether. Single men aren’t prevented from working enough hours because they are busy mopping and dusting, saying “Oh, if I only had a wife to free me up from this household drudgery!” This is a feminist myth. There isn’t much to do if the man is single, and men don’t care about this as much as women anyway. Men who don’t have families are more free to work long hours and travel than men with families. What I would agree is that specialization builds wealth, but this isn’t what they are measuring. They are measuring income.

    It is also why I’m not keen on advising against marriage. Yes, you are playing a very risky game, but there are huge payouts (like male life-expectancy) for a successful pairing that aren’t _all_ costs. I’m even hesitant to analyze it in such a Marxist/Randian fashion.

    I think you are being unfair to men who don’t choose to accept the risk. Shaming men is a crutch to avoid confronting women and feminists. If Trad Cons as a group didn’t use this crutch, we wouldn’t be where we are in the first place.

    But I do agree that marriage is too valuable just to walk away from. There is no substitute sexually/morally and there is no substitute for raising children. However, as it stands there is a severe shortage of marriage worthy women in the west. With this in mind, I’ll advise those who want to marry as best as I can. We already have enough men wanting to marry to match up with the marriage worthy women. No point in trying to talk those who aren’t interested into wishing they had a seat at the restaurant.

  22. BenElazar says:

    I am in my early-30′s and a married father of four children. I am an Orthodox Jew. In my opinion, a large, happy family imbue a man with confidence, wisdom and understanding that is unmatched, even by significant material success. A family is wealth and begets more wealth (material and otherwise), rather than the other way around.

    Psalm 127. Children are a heritage of the Lord, the fruit of the womb is a reward. As arrows in the quiver of a mighty man, so are the children of one’s youth. Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them; they shall not be put to shame, when they speak with their enemies in the gate.

    The true alpha is a man who has large, successful family. This patriarchal legacy extends well beyond his last day on earth. Having children increases a man’s confidence and wisdom exponentially. He has better understanding of how to lead and manage others and more insight into the relationship of God and man (which is quite similar to man and child). Both of these things will aid his material success.

    To illustrate, I went on a job interview several years ago. I was well-educated, right for the role and beaming with pride about my two new children. The interviewer was an older, slightly awkward man, a bit of a nerd. We started talking and I, naturally, got a bit cocky. I talked about my qualifications and about my two new children. I was controlling the interview. In the midst of conversation about my children, I asked him how many kids he had. He looked at me, dead in the eye, and said, “a half dozen”. Needless to say, it took me down a few notches.

    Feminism is unnatural and will only lead to sadness and despair. Dalrock has pointed this out many times on his site. Given the current anti-family, anti-marriage and anti-man culture, a man has to work even harder to find the right woman and lead her down the proper path. This is tough, but by no means impossible. It requires a lot of improvement and change in both of you. Like children, you lead by example, by doing, not by telling. Women will readily follow your example.

    I am by no means an expert. However, I was once single and work with a large number of single men and women in New York.

    My advice can be summarized in a short phrase: Date a lot and pray.

    You never know who your soulmate may be, what type of person, from what type of background, etc. Date a lot. You’ll know very soon if you are right for each other. From the moment I first spoke to my wife, I knew something was special. After a few dates, I knew we were right for each other. It doesn’t matter how you find these ladies, online, picking them up off the street, through friends, there is something to be said about quantity. If you don’t get along or they don’t have great potential, get rid of them quickly. Either way, take action.

    Next pray to God to help you find the right person for you. God answers prayers. To the average reader, this may sound silly, but it’s not.

  23. ybm says:

    That is toxic advice to today’s modern young man.

    Spend spend spend lad! Forgive every mistake she makes! Work hard at it despite how terrible you feel, your failings are yours along (and so are her failings)! Your not a real man unless you marry that hoe!

  24. gdgm+ says:

    I shrugged a few years ago… and am calmer for having done so.

    I’ve been paying more attention to Dalrock’s lately, because of the sad story of a younger, longtime co-worker & friend I’ve known for 10+ years, who’s gotten back in contact with me. He was a married fellow who appeared to HAVE all of the positive traits that Dalrock and other Christians say is good in men: church-attending, hardworking, tall, a family man who deeply loves his 3 kids, a mixture of Alpha (leadership and teaching) and Beta (hard work, respect for family and elders) traits.

    When I first met him, he was mildly dismayed to find I was a never-married single fellow, then in his 40s. But we turned out to be good co-workers, and I was very helpful to him (I’d been working for 25+ years). From time to time, he’d ask why I wasn’t married. When I politely replied that the single (mostly divorced) women I knew were bat snot crazy, I’d also compliment him on his good fortune in finding his wife. He’d demur from taking ‘credit’ himself, noting that he was working hard, prayerfully following God’s plan.

    And then his wife filed for divorce – he never saw it coming.
    Underneath their tranquil domestic surface, she wasn’t haaaaappy.

    Due to a company reorg coming at about the same time, this fellow and I were moved to different teams, and he ‘went silent’ for over a year. He has since re-established contact, a bit embarrassed about his past comments to me. But I’m not looking to say “I told you so” — I feel terrible for him. He’s had the integrity to fight for and get ‘joint custody’, his kids live with him part time, but his ex- got their house and other items. His money’s been diverted from retirement and college savings to deal with this, and he’s working still harder. A couple of years after the divorce, another woman has been eager to ‘snap him up’, but he’s told her they need to take it slowly, his kids come first.

    Tell me again why any guy — especially a faithful, family-man believer like my friend — should willingly sign up for this, without truly understanding the possible risks?

  25. greyghost says:

    One thing to remember and It did hit even myself. a man married to a spending wife that will never allow the family financial security will cause an in marriage shrug. There is even divorce for men advice on slowing down their earnings to reduce the baseline for unhappiness punishment in the form of CS and alimony. Family law gets around it with the imputed income game. The financial stress a wife can bring to a house hold is unbelievable and the it’s not myfault attitude women in general have when reality hits is what brought me to the manosphere as I was resaerch a way to get rid of my wife and keeping the kids which is all I really wanted in the first place. What I learned it wasn’t “her” persay but western society.
    Rollo Tomassi, gunner451 your comments are why we need to talk to men. Those men in the churches are not behaving as men. Men don’t have the luxery of enjoying civilixed society we make it. There is no romance in relationship it is work sex and responsibility. It did just happen ‘it was a planned event. Christian (churchian) men have this f’d up delusion of innocence is godly. Being a blissfully ignorant chump doesn’t make you pure and christian. besides that they are insuring the female churchian never live a christian life condeming them to darkness right along with the preachers,pasters and reverands worshipping man with supplication to femminism rather than having faith and standing by the truth. As i have said before a Cad,player,PUA is doing the lords work in todays chuches riding thoses sluts past the wall. The chuchian chumps are with churchian good intentions working for the devil in the name of god.

  26. greyghost says:

    gdgm+
    i’m so tired of that story being played out over and over on the best men this country has.

  27. an observer says:

    Betas have every reason to shrug.

    The feminised workforce slows career progress.
    The hypergamous sluts are not good marriage material.
    The slowing economy means less openings for college grads.

    It has been said before. Legions of alienated, disaffected men are a bad sign for civilisation. What’s the bet we’ll have a war to deal with the issues?

  28. Well, feminists believe their own rhetoric. Truth is, being married is harder for a man than being single. It used to be, be a good provider and here is your pretty virgin helpmeet to ease the diificult path of life. “Here is your ballbuster slut” just doesn’t have the same appeal.

    Cadders, yes. If you have “hand”, you can “write your own ticket” as they say. When I wanted to “take a promotion”, I did. When I wanted to retire, I did. I have always believed that the woman was made for the man, not vice versa. I think I read that in an old book.

  29. greenlander says:

    Captain Capitalism dug up another great example what can happen to a beta in divorce court. This guy got screwed by the Canadian divorce system. His wife is an airhead who refuses to work and can’t manage money. In response, he pulled the plug and moved permanently to The Philippines to escape the usurious support order.

    The article is spin to paint the guy as shirking his duty, but he’s clearly being taken advantage of. I’d make the same choice in his place.

    http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1220096–deadbeat-dad-flees-to-philippines-leaving-four-kids-without-support

  30. Terse_man says:

    The end goal of this is the same as the beginning goal: For women to get all the benefits of beta providership while securing the alpha male genetic material they perceive as superior. Be it alimony, child support, or the welfare state, the goal is all the same: She wants to get hot alpha sex with a beta footing the bill. That’s really all it is, nothing else.

    This is the fruit and end-result of the “liberation” of women, not the ideological goals set out in political gain.

    I beg to differ. People have no idea why a human needs salt. But they seek it out in popcorn, chips, and wherever they can find it. If there is an intrinsic drive, and the environment will let it happen, then it will happen. In this case it is of women wanting to be impregnated by the “good” alpha genes and have betas pay for it. The rules have been changed to make this happen, and it will continue to happen until society collapses.

  31. gunner451 says:

    greyghost,

    It’s easy giving advise to my non-Christian friends that are thinking about marriage, I tell them that they’re crazy to even think about it and given them a full dose of the red pill. Actually have convinced a few guys to bail out of the marriage train because of that. There are several worldly reasons why this is an easy sell to them the most important being that they are already having sex with these women and have no real hang ups about doing a pump and dump.

    Now strangely most Christians that I know behave pretty much the same way as the non-Christian (with the exception of the beta chumps that can’t get any tail to save their lives but claim to be waiting for their God given soul mate) in that pre-marital sex is pretty much the norm. But given Gods word on fornicating and the grievous sin that it is, it’s not very good advise and certainly un-Christian to advocate that followers pursue a sinful lifestyle so I usually just try to get them to at least prepare for the possibility of being hit with a divorce (not so much success with that strategy). Christian men really are in a no win situation, the Bible says it’s better to remain single but if you burn with passion it is better to marry than fall into sin. Problem is that to marry one of these “reformed” sluts is like playing Russian Roulette with half the chambers full and even if you find a good one she can always change her mind because she’s not haaaapy as I’ve seen and read on line in several cases.

    My own situation is similar to yours with more than a few extenuating circumstances that I won’t bore anyone with. I wish to God that the internet had been around when I made the decision to get married as I would have had at least a chance of finding out the truth and bailing. As it is I’m trapped by my own bad decisions with not much in the way of hope that things won’t get worse, much worse before they get better. Men trying to live the Christian life now days don’t have a lot of options but at least if they are wiling to look at the hard realities they can increase the odds slightly in their favor and try and mitigate the bad effects if the wife decides to blow up the marriage.

  32. Dalrock
    If it matters , let me explain the earlier comment. Yes, you would get me to agree that the church is teaching misandry and the men are lapping it up. There is, to my knowledge not a great movement to hold things to TODAY, if anything the church presses even further to the feminist progressive direction, Stanton Et Al. The white knights as well press further to more misandry. But the things they push are largely only misandry because of the teachings to women (by the leader) and the juxtaposition of the two teachings. My point is, they always have to a great extent. What changed is the women and that’s been steadily incorporated. I guess another way to say it is that, IMO, is the women, hence the teachings to the women changed.
    On the Limbaugh thing, I dont follow, I need to better understand that before I could comment.

    Im not too keen on taking a bunch of space sorting this, but the contradiction you saw wasnt there.

  33. Terse_man says:

    Dalrock,
    How about this for an idea: A side wiki explaining “red pill” studies? Fill it up with definitions, concepts and issues. I am sure that the many very intelligent readers will help fill it up. It could provide a serious place where what the “red pill” really means can be hashed out. But best of all, it would be useful in the education of all the guys out there who need something to help them figure out what is going on, and why the world is not what they were told it was.

  34. ybm says:

    It would be vandalized constantly and probably shut down by hosting after pressure groups convince them it is “hate speech”.

  35. Terse_man says:

    Wiki in this case means “user contributed material”, not the official Wikipedia.

  36. Terse_man says:

    @ybm
    Let all changes go through Dalrock

  37. Terse_man says:

    @ybm
    They sometimes attempt to vandalized the comment threads here. Look what happens when they try. Facts and logic win out

  38. ybm says:

    Well if you are meaning a discussion of Dalrock’s specific blend of beliefs being expanded upon, nobody can really do that except Dal. If you are discussing something a little more high-level, then you run into the same problems that have held up this idea in the passed when discussed. Mainly:

    -Whose definition of ‘Red Pill’ is the one that gets used
    -Is the “Manosphere” and the “MRM” part of this?
    -If so what is part of the Manosphere and what isn’t?

    What Dalrock uses as ‘red pill’ is quite different than others in this corner of the internet. BlackPill, AlekNovy, myself etc. have a very different idea of what the ‘red pill’ and the Manosphere are compared to Spearhead posters, AVFM, IMF-refugees, ghosts etc.

    And it is around this point that the discussion would fall apart.

  39. Anacaona says:

    And it is around this point that the discussion would fall apart.

    Well the Feminist wiki has pretty much every flavor of feminism and then some, including its critics. I think that if is written on neutral “scientific” language it has a chance to stay and even grow. And as we third world people say “the only way to know if something is going to work is trying” or/and “is better to try and fail than not try at all”.
    I know my opinion is probably meaningless but a wiki sounds like a good idea and I don’t think is as easy to take down. There are white supremacist, pedophilia advocacy, PUA… articles on the official wikipedia if that can stay around I think “red pill studies” can as well, YMMV.

  40. ybm says:

    The difference between a wiki as you envision it and the feminist wiki is that the feminist wiki has the backing of NGOs and and female academics and politicians across the globe. The wiki you imagine would not even have the support of the “web-mistresses” that control nearly every hosting site on the internet today.

    The backbone of the internet (IT and the like) is largely dominated by the lowest-of-the-low omega male incels. Those cheeto-covered goons who are so desperate for female attention they will fawn over any “gurl on the internet” that bats an eyelash at them, no matter how morbidly obese. Don’t even get me started on nerd girls and nerds in general, they are the reason the “nice guy” stereotype was born and even nerd girls revile them.

    Like trying to fight a bear with a sock.

  41. Looking Glass says:

    @greenlander:

    I’d seen a link to that story but hadn’t read it. Yeah, that woman was an idiot and the courts were willing to force him into slavery to her. He took the logical route available to him. I could even make a throw-back argument he took the honorable route, even if it now completely deprives his children of their father. (If Slavery is a moral wrong, then fleeing it is an honorable moral choice)

    Still, that’s a pretty sad story, for everyone but the mother.

  42. Hurp says:

    Sorry for the trouble, Dalrock, but the “2010 State of Our Unions” hyperlink sends me to a “Page Not Found” on the U. VA website. Is it just me, or is something wrong with the link?

    [D: Looks like they changed where they are hosting it in just the last week. I found the new home and updated the links. Thanks for the heads up.]

  43. greyghost says:

    Greenlander,
    I’d call that a shrug a few years ago I would say he was a deadbeat. Now, i say good for him screw canada and his ex wife. As for the kids if Canada is so worried about them have the ex-wife kill them. and just call it a late term abortion.

  44. greyghost says:

    bskillet81

    The end goal of this is the same as the beginning goal: For women to get all the benefits of beta providership while securing the alpha male genetic material they perceive as superior. Be it alimony, child support, or the welfare state, the goal is all the same: She wants to get hot alpha sex with a beta footing the bill. That’s really all it is, nothing else

    women don’t think like that never have and never could. You think like that based on what you can observe by the results of feminism. What women want is no responsibility and that is the ONLY reason a woman can even see a beta type. Alpha is for the gina tingle the reason it looks like she is doing for alpha genetics is a default. The alpha is the one fucking the bitch so who the hell else is going to be the one to knock her up. As long as she can get her gina tingled it doesn’t matter where her meal ticket comes from. Always remember children to a woman are meal tickets,hostages, and entitlements to status and resources.

  45. I have had some little experience with Wikipedia. A little persistence helps, but yes there are feminists (many probably male) who will scrub stuff. What I have found worked with some science material I wanted to post was to simply shop around. If some net dragon won’t let you add something to one article, try another on a similar topic (purely as an example, if you can’t put in on “amphibians”, try “frogs”, or “tadpoles”.) This worked well for me in one instance. I have seen quite a lot of politically incorrect material on Wikipedia, so it is not impossible. Just try thinking laterally. You could put some ideas on a smaller article. It will still get attention.

  46. Jim says:

    “but he won’t work himself to death for an ungrateful woman who regards him simply as somewhere between a joke and an oppressor.”

    Substitute nation for woman.

  47. Johnycomelately says:

    I’d be interested to see how these women out earning men go once they hit the wall, it’s been my observation that single women want to slow the pace of work once they hit a certain age, I guess the hyperagamy drive kicks down a notch when it hasn’t been requited after 15 years.

    Concerning the betas I have seen a change in the behaviour of long term bachelors, it used to be that this type of guy would be highly neurotic and self aware of his predicament (particularly if he was a church goer) but the new type is very content. He has no qualms about being under employed and the lack of community in the modern world makes him impervious to social shaming, heck I’d even be surprised if he was aware of the ‘man up’ drivel being pushed by the mass media.

  48. Jim says:

    Well at 40 I come across as childish to many. Loud, boisterous, teaser but I earned it. I manned up from 20 as far as working hard and did so until August of last year. Straight on through for all those years. Haven’t worked since then. Neighbors wonder why women never appear at my house though. To be honest, what for? I hit the weekend nights out and directly see what is happening. And just as is written around the manospere, desperate women at the wall abound everywhere. And what’s even more troubling, willing to do anything from the get go to fool a man into actually dating them. My observation is once women stay on the carousal past a certain age, they can’t get off until they are kicked off.

  49. greenlander says:

    My observation is once women stay on the carousal past a certain age, they can’t get off until they are kicked off.

    lol +1

  50. Anacaona says:

    Don’t even get me started on nerd girls and nerds in general, they are the reason the “nice guy” stereotype was born and even nerd girls revile them.

    Err I consider myself a nerd and a girl…what is wrong with us if you feel so inclined?

  51. Anonymous says:

    Agenda Insight: Goodbye to Good Men… ditto:

  52. TFH says:

    greyghost,

    As i have said before a Cad,player,PUA is doing the lords work in todays chuches riding thoses sluts past the wall.

    Yes.

    Anaconda,

  53. ybm says:

    You asked for it:

    If your hindbrain led you to “nerd stuff” when you were young it was either because you are too ugly or goddamn annoying/mentally dysfunctional to hang out with the cool herd.

    If your hindbrain led you to “nerd stuff” when you were past 18 it was because you had no long term potential (but probably plenty of pump and dump potential) from the alpha males.

    Women’s brains are specifically wired to adapt and accept whatever circumstances exist with much greater ease than a man. See: stockholm syndrome among female captives. No man will ever believe that a woman of even below average attractiveness or personality would lower herself to associating, let alone MATING with a nerd if she had any other prospects.

    In manosphere parlance: nerd girls are without exception, the ones who were kicked off the carousel early.

    You may truly believe that you enjoy nerdy activities, but even a cursory glance at your blog, hell, your latest post about putting hypergamy to work meeting nerdy men, shows me you probably don’t.

  54. TFH says:

    I have to say, it is not a novel opinion that with the exception of Paul Elam, most MRAs don’t really do any activism. I doubt anyone on this blog will strongly disagree with that.

    But the ‘aggressively opposed to activism’ wing of the MRM is getting more shrill lately. They actually *opposed* anyone donating to the Brian Banks documentary. What good is the Androsphere, if not to raise awareness for projects like that (Brian Banks being the man who lost an NLF career and more due to a false rape accusation).

    Could it be that the resistance is starting to emerge, a resistance that the activism-opposers don’t want?

  55. Days of Broken Arrows says:

    Johnycomelately: I’d be interested to see how these women out earning men go once they hit the wall…

    Glad you asked, Johnny! They plunge into their work like there’s no tomorrow and drive their staffs, which are usually all-female, insane with demands. Older single women are the WORST bosses to work for because they make work their personal lives and there’s no escaping them.

    My ex worked for one of these types and she had to put up with endless meetings, countless personal “conferences,” an array of ever-changing demands and requests, voice mails every evening, long, long, long (multiple) voice mails on the weekends, “working lunches,” no lunches, so many emails that nothing could get done, yelling matches, overly emotional exchanges, and evaluations that were more like rectal exams. My ex longed for the days her boss was a man who balanced his work life with life on the golf course and let his employees chart their own course (and said employees were more productive because of that).

  56. Anacaona says:

    @ymb
    Interesting theories.

  57. ybm says:

    I take no pleasure in writing that since I, as you can probably guess, the nerdiest nerd who ever existed (Why else would I be on a blog in the middle of the night). I had the fortune of being born tall, wealthy, and Italian which compensates for whatever obvious shortcomings I have NOW, but it did not when I was a young Final Fantasy addict playing D&D with my friends on the weekend.

  58. Jim says:

    Nothing wrong with nerd girls except they are introverts. I know a few that work at the local bookstore and love to playfully tease one 23 year old self described introvert. Nerdy glasses and all. It took her a while to warm up but once there, now she likes to sneak up on me and actually to my amazement actually talks. She wants to be an archival librarian if that clues you into how much of an introvert she really is.

  59. Buck says:

    Rock Throwing Peasant says:
    July 2, 2012 at 1:03 pm
    “As much as there might be a societal call to “marry up” the sluts, do male peer groups call on him to do so? How much pressure do the male friends of 30-something guys exert on him?
    Female friends will pressure female friends to marry/have kids/whatever. I’m not as certain that the male peers exert the same pressure nowadays. His father may be applying pressure, of course.”
    In my circle of buddies about 1/2 are single 30-40 somethings. We married guys NEVER encourage marriage and in fact routinely express our envy for their single freedom.
    I think this is why guys can remain friends for decades, we don’t ask and don’t care about another guys’ relationship status. Our ranks are thinned by bitchy wives who hen peck the stupid-enough-to-marry-her members of the group. These guys quit hanging out to save the grief they get from herself.
    You are a good friend to warn your bud of the cotex mifia’s plot to sandbag him with an ooops pregnancy…good for you!
    I hope your pal gets snipped and bangs the living crap out of her, w/o the ring, and until he finds someone younger and hotter.

  60. ybm says:

    @Jim says:
    July 3, 2012 at 12:43 am

    And I’m sure if Harley McBadboy came in looking for the latest issue of Fantasy Sports Picks or a GED study manual and played grab-ass with her for a couple minutes you’d be forgotten pretty frigging quickly. That’s just the way it is.

  61. Chris says:

    Jim
    Introverted nerdy girls are keepers. What are you doing here?

  62. ybm says:

    @TFH says:
    July 3, 2012 at 12:32 am

    You know as well as I do why there is a lack of desire to help that man in your ‘manosphere’. A truth which dare not speak its name. Because Brian is B____.

  63. Anacaona says:

    @ymb
    I’m sorry you have had experiences that let you to this conclusions. I call what you call nerdy girls posers or not true nerds I do love all my nerdy rants and discuss about nerdy pursuits, a lot more than my husband so I do think I’m the real deal. The post is mostly because I think some women might be more nerdy inclined but it never occurs to them that they might, not about forcing anyone to like anything.

    @Jim
    Funny enough I’m a extrovert but I prefer introverts for friendships and love, maybe compensating? Dunno but if I have to pick between a guy surrounded by girls and a guy in a corner sitting reading a comic book. I’ll probably will strike conversation with the comic book guy, well in theory now that I’m married I don’t do approach strange guys and I add probably in case he just want to read. I do respect that too, YMMV.

  64. Random Angeleno says:

    I shrugged.

    The new “I am Spartacus” line for men.

  65. Anacaona, I heard something funny in the shopping mall once. I was passing a game shop. Some “nerds” were painting game figures or some such thing. One of the young men was a big, good-looking bloke. His pretty girlfriend was trying to get him to leave with her. I heard her say, “Come on. You can play with the other nerds later”.

    I suppose I am a nerd, although my main science is biology. I used to play Diplomacy with some other young blokes in high school. I suppose we were nerds, but most of them were good sportsmen and a couple were very good-looking. We never used to talk about “nerds” in those days.

  66. ybm says:

    Nerd, Nice-Guy, Beta/omega, and now “Creepy” are all nonsense words that are just Simulacrum to represent “not attractive”. It is no surprise that women are almost completely exempt from being called these terms unless they self-describe themselves as nerds. These words exist only as representations of ideas.

    At first, they reflected a truth,
    -Nerd being someone who had strange hobbies like building model rockets, or reading Weird Tales magazines.
    -Nice-Guy was the goofy neuter-friend from 80s teen John Hughes films.
    -Beta being a anthropology term if I recall to describe secondary males in primates.
    -Creepy ironically was a term that found its origin in the Lothario jock from the 90s who forced himself on girls.

    As time passed these terms mutated into nearly the same thing after arriving at Phase 4. The fourth stage is pure simulation, in which the simulacrum has no relationship to any reality whatsoever. Here, signs merely reflect other signs and any claim to reality on the part of images or signs is only of the order of other such claims. This is a regime of total equivalency, where cultural products need no longer even pretend to be real in a naïve sense.

    These terms all simply mean ‘undesirable male’ Hence my belief that a nerd girl is simply a mercenary who knows what she can possibly attain in a mate. Were I trying to draw a parallel in Pick up terms, I’d say the nerd girl is the closest thing to an omega male that exists.

  67. Anacaona says:

    were painting game figures or some such thing.Anacaona, I heard something funny in the shopping mall once. I was passing a game shop. Some “nerds” were painting game figures or some such thing. One of the young men was a big, good-looking bloke. His pretty girlfriend was trying to get him to leave with her. I heard her say, “Come on. You can play with the other nerds later”.
    They were probably warhammer figures.His girlfriend shouldn’t had told him that I actually encourage my husband to play with his friends and often give him dinner while he is doing his miniature painting and find ways to entertain myself meanwhile I also like his friends very much and they are always impressed when I know what they are talking about when they start their rants about nerdy things. ;)

    I suppose I am a nerd, although my main science is biology. I used to play Diplomacy with some other young blokes in high school. I suppose we were nerds, but most of them were good sportsmen and a couple were very good-looking. We never used to talk about “nerds” in those days.

    I think some people confuse the terms Nerd, Geek and Dork. This is I think the most accurate definition:
    Geek – Very knowledgeable of a specific topic (electronics, comic books, etc)
    Nerd – Very knowledgeable across a wide variety of subjects (book smart)
    Dork – socially awkward and not mutually exclusive of nerd/geek
    Pick your poison, YMMV.

  68. ybm says:

    @David Collard says:
    July 3, 2012 at 1:15 am

    Most of us were sporty guys as well. I played calcio and was well on my way making a decent run at it until an injury at 15. Literally the only difference between us “nerd jocks” and the ones plowing the cheerleaders on the weekends was that we hung out with different people. We had the emo/goth suicidegirl dregs/castaways hanging off us instead of the chicks we actually wanted.

  69. TFH says:

    Ybm,

    I don’t think that is it outside of a few WN kooks who are here for the wrong reasons. The MRAs don’t help white guys either.

    The entire concept of ‘MRA’ seems heavily committed to not doing any real activism. Even worse, they try to suppress other people’s activism.

  70. Höllenhund says:

    BenElazar

    Given the current anti-family, anti-marriage and anti-man culture, a man has to work even harder to find the right woman and lead her down the proper path. This is tough, but by no means impossible. It requires a lot of improvement and change in both of you.

    So in other words, men just need to keep doing what they’ve always been doing, only with more determination this time, and the problems will just basically solve themselves?

  71. dhurka says:

    GKChesterton
    “there are huge payouts (like male life-expectancy) for a successful pairing”

    Citation Mr Chesterton? I’ve never seen this studied where they didn’t include the divorced men with the single men. If all the ‘ever married’ men live longer then point proved. But those divorced guys are on your side, and they are dropping like fly’s.

    Like the studies where they count the child support/alimony the man pays as his income and then state that divorced men do better than divorced women financially.

  72. ybm, I come from an older generation in Australia, so things were different. And I was at an all-boys school (now “coed”). But of the five or so of us nerds-avant-la-lettre, three were good-looking (I immodestly include myself) and three of them were champion runners or played rugby well (I modestly exclude myself). One of them (not me) was very charming and good looking and when a medical student he, shall we say, “applied his stethoscope” to a lot of nurses.

    My daughter hangs around with a group I call “the good looking nerds”.

  73. Anacaona says:

    ybm, I come from an older generation in Australia, so things were different.

    I’m Dominican and I can say things are a lot different there too. Is more about social class (rich or poor) than about hobbies or pursuits or even grades at school and the sports were mostly street things like baseball with a stick and a the head of a doll for the low class where I come from and girls could play with the boys if they wanted to (I was a good batter and runner but I couldn’t throw a curve if my life depended on it, I mostly switched to run with one of the guys as to avoid our “team” losing my father made me quit playing with the boys when I hit puberty which is the time most parents start to separate the genders in my culture for obvious reasons) so I would say this probably varies from country.

  74. Yes, Anacaona, I thought you were not a native English speaker, because you have a distinctive writing style. Do you mean you are from Dominica or the Dominican Republic?

    A lot has changed in Australia since I was a young man, but I am still interested in all these marriage issues, because I am still married.

  75. Anacaona says:

    Dominican Republic… I married a nerdy gringo and I’m carrying our first child (a boy) I had been studying gender interaction on my country for a while as a personal hobby and now I’m doing it here too, so this interest me both academically and personally.

    Funny you are the second person this week that mentions my style as a give away of me not being a native speaker. I tested 90 % level of English a few years ago but it seems that since my brain already knows enough to communicate more or less effectively, the 10% that I need to mask my origin is harder to sink in…some advice would be welcome if there is something I can do to fix this.

  76. Don’t fix it. It’s cute.

  77. Anacaona says:

    Don’t fix it. It’s cute.

    Awww thanks *kissinthecheek*…but I’m trying to become a published writer on English (already had some things out on Spanish) and even though hiring editors and proof readers is an option I do want to be able one day to write something and not feel completely insecure about my syntax.

  78. Phantasmagoria says:

    Anacaona;

    You type English far better than a lot of people I know. Be proud of it.

    Of course, I’m one of those people who gets fairly irritated over basic syntax and spelling so my opinion might not be quite relevant.

  79. Anacaona, I wish I could be more helpful. You seem to mix up your prepositions, eg. “on” and “in” in that last comment. Practice at reading and speaking will help. But most editors will improve your material. It is what they are paid for. I mainly have experience with science editors and they are very good.

  80. “kiss on the cheek”. “in English”. “in Spanish”.

  81. Yes, they were likely Warhammer figures. The shop specialised in that. I know nothing about this game.

    I am a facultative nerd. Not obligate.

  82. Rock Throwing Peasant says:

    @Buck
    I hope your pal gets snipped and bangs the living crap out of her, w/o the ring, and until he finds someone younger and hotter.

    Well, in this particular case, his father and I (we were originally closer friends until his son hit 21 – I’m in the middle of the two age-wise) both see the red flags. She’s also bi-polar and drinks far too much for those meds. So, I’m fairly certain he’ll get a healthy dose of advice from the two guys he respects in life.

    The killer is that he loves being a dad. He loves horsing around with my sons, his nephew, etc. He really wants to be a dad, but his taste in women is horrible. They’re all hot, but whacky. Still, he’ll never get snipped. He wants to be a dad. We just have to keep him focused on his fledgling career, which will bring great travel opportunities.

    @Random Angelo
    “I shrugged.”
    The new “I am Spartacus” line for men.

    That’s great. A figure of institutional power calls out for a man to be “corrected” and the men around him stand beside him to show solidarity.

  83. freebird says:

    Christ’s death was/is a foreshadowing of the death of the church as it was and as we know it now-corrupted by the evils of the flesh.
    Things that need to die and go in the ground for 3 days to resurrect free of the sins of the flesh mind:
    1.Churchian beliefs and institutions.
    If this means the death of the church as we know it now,so be it,Christ did it first.
    2.Marriage to the State-Christ said “render unto Caesar
    what is his (meaning money)
    stating by omission NOT to render what is not his-marriage,spirituality,freedom,God given human rights,ect.

    Send all that bad shit to the grave,and let the new “man” resurrect
    himself (society) free of the horrible failings.
    Yes,this means death to marriage was we know it now.
    It’s the biblical thing to do!

  84. deti says:

    gunner451, 7/2/12, 7:47 pm:

    Good point. I’m a married man, love my wife, love my kids. I told my wife point blank: if she decided to blow it all to hell, the best we could do is to contain and control the damage. She will literally destroy everyone’s lives if she decides to take that course of action. And worse, our kids’ lives would be ruined.

  85. Anacaona
    “En tu cara”, en functions as “on” or “in” depends on context which is why the confusion on this is so common for Spanish speakers. “in” in English is like “dentro” in Spanish, be careful with that.

  86. Anonymous Reader says:

    Deti
    I’m a married man, love my wife, love my kids. I told my wife point blank: if she decided to blow it all to hell, the best we could do is to contain and control the damage. She will literally destroy everyone’s lives if she decides to take that course of action. And worse, our kids’ lives would be ruined.

    Did you specifically point out to her just how bad the effects on her life would be?
    That she would likely not find another man as tolerant as you, that probably she’d wind up living alone once the children graduated from high school? When people realize their actions can and shall come right back upon them, it can be quite motivational.

  87. koevoet says:

    @Freebird – The Church doesn’t need to “die” until perhaps right at the end. Even then, “the gates of hell shall never prevail”. Churchianity is just another heresy. There have been plenty of those throughout history. They need to be confronted and put down. One of the problems is that Christianity has been chopped up into so many little sects that it is little wonder that many of them have been perverted. The primary function of Churchianity is to fill offering plates, not save souls from damnation.

    Not all Christians have given in and apostatized. It’s Churchianity that needs to go and the best method is to break people off from their man-inspired heresies and return to the true teaching of the Church. There are still some Churches that maintain the same beliefs that the Church has held since Pentecost and the Ecumenical Councils.

  88. deti says:

    Anon Reader:

    I did. Convo went something like this: You’re in your mid forties with two school age kids. It’s unfortunate, but your romantic life will likely consist of dates and attempted pump & dumps from lonely heart divorced men in their 50s who are financially worse off than you will be. You’ll find them even less attractive than you found me. If you insist on confiscatory alimony and support orders, I won’t be able to keep up, and I will probably have to go to jail. If I’m in jail, I can’t work, and you’ll get no money. You’ll essentially be taking food from the mouths of our children. The nice house? Gone, because neither of us will be able to afford the payments. You’ll have to sell everything to make ends meet, and you’ll likely end up living with your elderly parents.

  89. betas won’t shrug. It is part of what defines them as betas. if they possess or evolve teh ability to shrug, they become something else, like sigmas, Lambdas, or deltas.

  90. greyghost says:

    “Did you specifically point out to her just how bad the effects on her life would be?
    That she would likely not find another man as tolerant as you, that probably she’d wind up living alone once the children graduated from high school? When people realize their actions can and shall come right back upon them, it can be quite motivational.”

    Deti
    Over the last year or so i have been talking about middle aged women hitting the wall. the old 40 is no different than 100 when it comes to dating. I stopped insulating my wife from reality a couple years ago as something that is normal. I usually as a good beta man resrerved the truth for arguements. Now it is day to day. We know a couple that is seperated and she is broke poor. My wife was talking to her and said the he was demamding sex and she decided he was an asshole. So he books up and leaves. It most likely took a few years to get there. My wife was telling me how bad it is for her. I told my wife, “look ,she has a husband , she had to do was fuck the guy maybe 2 or three times a week and she would still be going shopping driving around in a minivan. She wanted to play big pussy and that is what she gets” She figured she hold the kids up as hostages to get . I again informed Mrs greyghost that if she was so concerned about the children she should sucked their fathers dick for their sake as a loving mother would do for any child that wasn’t seen as a meal ticket. Mrs greyghost was also informed that if she needs to boost her income she needs to find a new dick to insert in any one of her openings and it is not yours or my place to support her because she hasn’t fucked either one of us. She doesn’t come up in conversation any more.

  91. Anonymous age 70 says:

    >>C.S Lewis (I think?) put it best when he stated that it was setting people’s work towards the devil while thinking they were doing God’s work.

    Yes, I remember it well. I wondered for years why stupid Christians were blaming husbands when a woman committed adultery, and thus attack divorced men who committed no wrong.

    In Screwtape Letters, the demon tells the young demons we will tell “Christians” that when they do our work they will be doing God’s work, and that they will be saved. But, they will not be saved and they will go to Hell. It is impossible to have Satan and Jesus in your heart at the same time.

    That is the reason Satan receives far more help from Christian churches in his attack on men, than he gets from the feminists themselves. It the Christians were right with the Bible, instead of against it, the feminists would never have made national news.

  92. Anacaona says:

    @Phantasmagoria
    Thank you :)

    @David Collard
    Yes I’m working with a couple of editors but is a bit grating that if I want to look professional I need to ask someone else to take a look at my work.

    I am a facultative nerd. Not obligate.

    Poser :p…Seriously I think Warhamer are still a very small subset of nerd culture and/or gaming, so I don’t think it would be common knowledge for everyone specially outside USA

    “En tu cara”, en functions as “on” or “in” depends on context which is why the confusion on this is so common for Spanish speakers. “in” in English is like “dentro” in Spanish, be careful with that.

    You are so totally right I never noticed this. Good tip for when I’m teaching the hubby and kids my mother tongue and to try and remember how this “in” and “on” need to be used.

    He really wants to be a dad, but his taste in women is horrible.

    You could also add that a big part of being a good dad is selecting a good woman to mother his kids, that might help.
    Not sure if you heard about a blog from someone called Dogsquat (ask deti for references) he used to have a “Captain-save-a-ho” problem and he has very good advice for men with similar issues, maybe you could link the blog to it and see what happens.

  93. deti says:

    greyghost:

    Keep in mind this was a conversation my wife and I had had when we were going through some pretty tough stuff. She had said “you would be tempted with other women.” My reply was something like “You see life through a woman’s prism. Only the most beastly women are unable to generate any male interest. You have no idea how difficult it is for a man to get anything with a woman. Most women won’t give most men the time of day, much less date them, much less have sex with them.”

  94. greyghost….odds are too that that woman will have serious sex, do things hubby remembers from the early years, moan and scream and be athletic and go and get it when he calls drop everything and get to the ho-tel for some humpin’….because, you know, wwomen…..they can’t “just do it” ya know, they need all that treatment all day, then the perfect home, clean and put away, kids in bed quiet, temp and humidity right, clean sheets, a bath, he needs to have shaved, and even then one wrong work and she is outta there, thats what she needs to have sex with hubby

  95. rob says:

    “But the ‘aggressively opposed to activism’ wing of the MRM is getting more shrill lately. They actually *opposed* anyone donating to the Brian Banks documentary. What good is the Androsphere, if not to raise awareness for projects like that (Brian Banks being the man who lost an NLF career and more due to a false rape accusation).” — TFH

    Got any evidence of someone doing that TFH? I’ve seen you recently falsely accuse me of this on the Spearhead, yet, I’ve never even mentioned Mr. Banks name in either a comment nor an article until right now.

    The “aggressively opposed to activism” wing of the MRM is aggressively opposed to starting up never ending Men’s Organizations that mirror the NOW and Women’s Studies Departments to represent men, since mainly they will be running to the government to beg for scraps from the table of equality. The only thing people are aggressively opposed to is the MRM requesting more government into our lives to “fix” things for us, since pretty much every problem men already face is facilitated by the hands of government. Shared-parenting, for example, invites government into the family in a massively intrusive way, and the unintended consequences will be enormous. Like, if the only way a woman can get sole custody under mandatory shared parenting, and thus get on the current chillimony gravy train, will be to falsely accuse the husband of abuse, then such “activism” supporting shared-parenting is also going to harm a lot of innocent men (men exactly like Mr. Banks)… if we know that incentivizing divorce with cash prizes leads to more divorces, then what makes the “activists” pushing for shared-parenting think that incentivizing false abuse claims won’t lead to more men being falsely accused of abuse?

    Once every University has a “male studies department,” they, like current feminist programs, will be incentivized to continually perpetuate the gender war, rather than end it, for if it actually ends they will be out of money and jobs. They will always find, or create, more problems so as to continue to have a justification for their existence.

    There is no need for you to lie and falsely accuse people of things they never did. You could actually address the real argument they have… which is, government interference ain’t gonna solve men’s problems, but make them worse.

  96. greyghost says:

    Empath…
    Once a woman is secure with that lifestyle the can put those qualifiers on marital responsibility. (that sword thing hanging over the hubbies head) Girlfriends and childless wives know better for they are easily gotten rid of and replaced. It is too bad it has come down to that and not delusional crap like honoring commitments and all.
    Deti
    I see what you mean. What she was trying to do was be a victim of you cheating to ease her mind for breaking up a good marriage to a good man. (that’s you BTW) You had to give her that anxiety tingle of reality. Insulating your wife from reality is not good. It causes bored complacancy and it seems to go with all we have talk about in the manosphere. I think Dalrock had an article about the roller coaster of death that generates huge drama with no consequences is chick crack. a good man needs to understand that is normal and fearlessly and with confidence expose the mrs. to has much realiyty terror as possible and let little princess put two and two together that she is safe because she is with you.
    An example would be if your wife had a divorced friend (all of them most likely) and had a story about how her boy friend abused her kid or what ever make sure the message she gets from you is that that woman is a fucked up bitch for bringing that guy to the house and why is she divorced anyway so she can go out a screw all the useless assholes she wants.
    I also have two daughters and I don’t plan on going along with the romanitic them dumb asses come up with when they decide to start gina tingling. I have a few years for that so right now they are my little darlings. I’m still a marine at heart and day to day I’m like that major payne character to them even though I was three years or so out when I met their mother.
    Over all if you were able to get through that hump in this society you did good. Something that a healthy society should have had covered for you so you could remain productive and innocently blissfully in love with your wife. But deep down I know it was never like that for a man.

  97. Mark says:

    “In this case it is of women wanting to be impregnated by the “good” alpha genes and have betas pay for it. The rules have been changed to make this happen, and it will continue to happen until society collapses.”

    Exactly. This has always been the natural inclination of women. It may be one reason why men have always tried to keep political power out of their hands, not because males are “oppressors”, but because they feared that women would do exactly what they have done since getting the vote. Modern women have had a chance to show that those traditional male fears were unfounded but instead they have confirmed by their actions that those fears were warranted. Unfortunately, as you say, we are in the midst of a societal collapse . Beta men can become aware, though, how the deck has been stacked against them and not play by the rules set up. Liberal feminists and social conservatives will try to shame them into doing so, but I don’t think they will be successful. Eventually we’ll hit bottom and and then things will slowly start to rebound.

  98. Wendy says:

    @Anacaona

    English is my second language as well, and yes, prepositions are a nightmare for many of us. I love Grammar Girl as a great reference for daily annoying questions: http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/where-are-you-at.aspx

    About.com has very useful ESL info, I have referred to it many times. http://esl.about.com/od/grammarintermediate/a/prepositions_of_place.htm

    For me, telling native speakers that I am working on my prepositions and love getting corrected, has worked great. Years ago, I used to always say “so and so is on her desk” (which I didn’t realize, literally means “on” it, like sitting on a table). Until a coworker corrected me and told me you say “at her desk”. I then asked that coworker to keep correcting me and I learned a bunch.

    Don’t feel bad to rely on an editor, many native speakers could never publish a decent piece of work without an editor. Go for it!

    Sorey for the tangent, people!

  99. imnobody says:

    “En tu cara”, en functions as “on” or “in” depends on context which is why the confusion on this is so common for Spanish speakers. “in” in English is like “dentro” in Spanish, be careful with that.

    “En” functions as “on”, “in” or “at” depending on context and situation. But “in” can be “dentro” and “on” can be “sobre”. And “at” can be “a”.

    In general, Spanish prepositions and English prepositions don’t match at all. For a Spanish native like me, English prepositions are one of the most challenging parts of the language.

  100. Anonymous age 70 says:

    @Anacaona
    17 years ago, in my small rural city (now I am in Mexico) we had exchange students. There were two young women from the Dominican Republic. Juana and Dani. Both were excellent young women, though I am not going to say all women from there are excellent, because I do not know.

    Three years ago, last time I went there, Dani was living there, married, with a kid or two. Very happy with her gringo.

    Juana’s mother back home, and sister, were in dire straits. She had an allowance in addition to her costs being paid. She spent nothing optional and sent the rest to her mother to live on.

    When her two years were up, she “escaped”, which is what the other students called failing to leave as per contract. She actually paid some man to perform a bogus marriage so she need not leave, because she well knew her family would be living in starvation.

    I guarantee you, Juana should not have had to pay anyone to marry her. I found the whole thing to be very tragic. Juana was, as I said, an excellent young woman.

  101. deti says:

    greyghost:

    Mrs. deti does have a divorced friend, one who was going through divorce when we were going through our rough patch. I told Mrs. deti to

    “watch very carefully because you’re about to get an up-close and personal view of how divorced women really live. Mark my words. Your friend is quite physically attractive, but she won’t be dating much. She has two teenage sons who live with her during the week. No man wants an LTR with a woman when he will have to contend with two strong young high school age men who automatically hate him because he’s not Dad.

    “Mrs. deti, most of the men she dates will be quite a bit older than she, divorced themselves, and probably financially distressed. She will find most of them unattractive. Any attractive men she dates will be in high demand and have many options. She will have to put out sexually and immediately to keep any such man. She might have to settle for being part of a rotating harem if she decides she wants an alpha man her age. Her ex husband was unambitious but a good man. He would not have pushed hard for sex. She is in for a rude awakening. Most of the available men have nothing to lose by pushing for early physical escalation and won’t hesitate to do so. She will be showered with attention but she won’t be treated kindly. She’ll suffer a couple of pump and dumps, and perhaps a few STRs.

    “Your friend will be financially poor herself. Her ex makes little money and 35% of it will be paid to her for child support. She has had to return to work in a menial job. That will not change. She is now 41. She’s consigned herself to working until she dies. her health insurance from her ex will end in a year. She has no job that will pay benefits and insufficient education and experience to get such a job. She won’t finish her degree because she won’t have time. She’s a single mother now. She has to work to support herself and her sons. Every free hour must be spent working to support herself and her sons. Every free penny must be stretched as far as it will go. There will be no extra money for pleasantries or emergencies.

    “Her best bet would be remarriage to a financially stable man around her age; but such men are as rare as hen’s teeth nowadays. Most such men have options and aren’t going to marry anyone, much less move her and her teenage sons into his house. Her sons are threats to the alpha, and won’t be allowed. The man’s rejection of her sons means he must reject her, but it won’t matter to him because he has options.”

  102. ybm says:

    See what I mean about nerds/beta males fawning over a “nerd girl” as soon as she appears Anacona? Thanks for proving my point!

  103. Anacaona says:

    @Deti
    Gald you endorse Dogsquat blog. I think he does a great job with his advice. :)

    I guarantee you, Juana should not have had to pay anyone to marry her. I found the whole thing to be very tragic. Juana was, as I said, an excellent young woman.

    Yeah I can see that. But then most “good girls” want to help their family as best possible but want to also stay close. It could be a case of her not making the choice early on and deciding at the last minute that she was better of staying there and sending money than coming back. I truly hope there is a happy ending for her, if she is as good as you think she might make the marriage become a real thing in the end for both. I know a couple of this cases where they marry out of business and things become real after a few years, of course this happen with Dominican girl/foreign man, when is the other way around the Dominican man will run as soon as he gets the green card 9.9 times out of 10.0, IME.

  104. deti says:

    ybm: Eh. Anacaona’s good people.

  105. Anacaona says:

    See what I mean about nerds/beta males fawning over a “nerd girl” as soon as she appears Anacona? Thanks for proving my point!

    ????!!! Sorry, I’m not following.

  106. Anonymous age 70 says:

    >>It could be a case of her not making the choice early on and deciding at the last minute that she was better of staying there and sending money than coming back.

    Yes, that is exactly what it was. Any job in the US would allow her to send more money back, whereas she felt there would be no jobs at all for her in DR. I neglected to say that, because it was so obvious to me I never thought to say it.

    I admired those young women from the Spanish speaking countries. We had a Mexican woman living with us, so they came to visit us.

    My favorite of all was Liliana from Honduras. She was an orphan, and had once been sold by an uncle as a prostitute. She ran to the street, and an older woman saw her face and asked what was wrong. The woman gave her work in her home, and sent her to school. She did so well she was selected by the government as an exchange student.

    I could almost write a small book about those Latinas.

  107. Legion says:

    greenlander says:
    July 2, 2012 at 7:44 pm

    Great find greenlandder. The comments are definately against the women for being lazy and being financially stupid.

  108. gdgm+ says:

    While we betas shrug, feminists such as the awful Amanda Marcotte don’t understand why girls aren’t getting *everything* they want (H/T to Troll King, on a _Spearhead_ thread):

    Why empowering girls isn’t working

    Featuring nonsensical comments such as:

    But then I thought, you know, a lot of women do want marriage and babies and don’t know how to get those things without hooking up with a man that’s quietly going to make it hard for her not to compromise her career goals, often while claiming all the way he’s a big ol’ feminist.

    And closing with:

    But while I push back against the sexist message that women should “settle”, all relationships are a compromise at some point. A guy who you love who is reliably liberal and does 50% more than most men around the house but still pulls rank on you, often subconsciously, isn’t really a bad thing to settle for when you have reason to believe the dating market isn’t producing many of the totally feminist guys. (Many of whom, in my experience, aren’t really into having kids anyway, which makes it a lot easier for them not to lean on their privilege.) I’m sick of putting women in a situation where we’re expected to defeat sexism by giving up on other important goals, such as finding love and partnership, or enjoying sexual game-playing, or having families, though that’s not my thing. I just don’t really see a way out of this dilemma, except by putting more pressure on men to relinquish privilege.

    Wha…?!?

  109. Anacaona says:

    I could almost write a small book about those Latinas.

    I wish I could say I’m surprised about things like Liliana happening but I’m not :(
    I’m glad God placed someone good on her way to allowed her to have a better life. Is sad indeed in the part time job I have here I can make the same money I used to make working from 8 am till 8 pm at my country sometimes including weekends, so yeah is a hard choice to make, but sometimes is the only one.

    I just don’t really see a way out of this dilemma, except by putting more pressure on men to relinquish privilege.

    When in doubt add more feminism…/barf.

  110. deti says:

    Legion, Greenlander:

    Notice what the Toronto Star story doesn’t talk about?

    Why the couple divorced in the first place.

    Why is there so much enmity between the two? They obviously hate each other passionately.

    These stories about divorce aftermaths should all state the reason(s) for the divorce.

    If my wife ever divorces me for unhaaappiness or if I am forced to divorce her for adultery, I won’t hesitate for a minute to tell everyone I know exactly why our marriage is ending.

  111. 39joshua says:

    That was a nice testimony BenElezar, and good advice.

  112. van Rooinek says:

    …the dating market isn’t producing many of the totally feminist guys. (Many of whom, in my experience, aren’t really into having kids anyway…

    Natural selection.

  113. chaz345 says:

    From the comments section of the horrible “why empowering girls isn’t working” blog post:
    “An example of male privilege as men-don’t-have-to-think-about-stuff is the extent to which women build their lives around avoiding violence. Do you know how much your wife does to protect herself from assault? (If not, it’s not a sign that you’ve done anything wrong, as we tend to take a “don’t talk about it just do it” approach, but again, the privilege is in what you don’t have to think about) Do your sons know how much girls are socialized to see themselves as being in constant danger, mostly from strange men, and being totally responsible for avoiding that danger? Don’t walk alone at night, don’t dress a certain way, don’t get too drunk in a public place, etc. etc.

    That’s just one example.”

    Has she ever considered that men have to build their lives around not getting assaulted by the legal system if she decides to file because she’s not haaaappy?

    Not only that but the fact that women are socialized to see themselves as constantly being in danger doesn’t make it true that they actually are in constant danger. In fact the largely fictional idea that they are in constant danger is as much a weapon of the feminists as it is anything else.

  114. “En” functions as “on”, “in” or “at” depending on context and situation. But “in” can be “dentro” and “on” can be “sobre”. And “at” can be “a”.
    —————————————————————————————-
    Una palabra
    que dice nada
    Como la lluvia
    sobre tu cara

    i love the music from Man on Fire, that song I quote “Una Palabra” is one of my favs.

  115. deti says:

    chaz:

    So, according to that thread, we men “don’t have to think about stuff?”

    I build my life around work and money management. I have to work, or I don’t eat. Not only will I not eat, three others won’t eat either. I have to manage life for myself and three other people so that there is enough money to pay for all the things they need and some of what they want.

    I think, worry and ruminate every day, EVERY DAY, about what to do and what I would have to do if I lose my job or can’t work for whatever reason.

    DOn’t tell me I “don’t have to think about stuff”.

    STFD and STFU, people on that thread.

  116. ybm says:

    “chaz345 says:
    July 3, 2012 at 4:50 pm

    Do your sons know how much girls are socialized to see themselves as being in constant danger, mostly from strange men, and being totally responsible for avoiding that danger? Don’t walk alone at night, don’t dress a certain way, don’t get too drunk in a public place, etc. etc.”

    On the very highest level, what is the traditional exchange that takes place between man and woman?
    -The woman provides submission
    -The man provides security
    I feel that both feminists, and the manosphere pretty much agree that this is the exchange. In fact, I think that almost everyone agrees with it.

    My question is, why do men want to maintain the second part in the face of opposition on the first? TradCons, liberals, MRM, hell even feminists, still believe that at the end of the day, men should provide security to women (even strangers). The only difference seems to be that TradCons and the MRM seem to want the submission aspect back.

    Why?

    What what if men decided to unilaterally take the security part off the table? What if men decided that if they see a woman being dragged into the bushes, they’ll walk away? What if they decided that in the face of an invading force, they got out of the way? If they saw a female coworker with a black eye, they just ignored it?

    The manosphere and females are still stuck in the same dynamic: The definition of a man is in his utility, a utility defined by women.

  117. Dalrock says:

    @Deti

    I build my life around work and money management. I have to work, or I don’t eat. Not only will I not eat, three others won’t eat either. I have to manage life for myself and three other people so that there is enough money to pay for all the things they need and some of what they want.

    I think, worry and ruminate every day, EVERY DAY, about what to do and what I would have to do if I lose my job or can’t work for whatever reason.

    Which ironically brings us back to the topic of the post. Just remember that to a feminist and most Trad Cons, that worry is a benefit you get from being married. So maybe it is male privilege after all…

  118. chaz345 says:

    @ ybm
    “What what if men decided to unilaterally take the security part off the table? What if men decided that if they see a woman being dragged into the bushes, they’ll walk away? What if they decided that in the face of an invading force, they got out of the way? If they saw a female coworker with a black eye, they just ignored it? ”

    I can’t count the number of times I, and others have been accused of justifying, or excusing, or minimizing, or ignoring violence against women. There are a lot of feminists out there who believe that men, outside of a very few exceptional ones, have already withdrawn the security.

  119. ybm says:

    “@chaz345 says:
    July 3, 2012 at 5:45 pm

    …There are a lot of feminists out there who believe that men, outside of a very few exceptional ones, have already withdrawn the security.”

    Only feminists?

    After my earlier derail I am trying to steer this conversation back to the theme of Dalrocks post: What if the beta males stopped caring? In my travels through the internet all these years through the blogs and aliases I wrote under and having to reinvent my online persona on average, every 2 years due to people trying to find out who I am IRL, what I noticed was at the core, the manosphere is trying to make angels in the ashes of what is no more.

    The man is owed submission because of his utility.

    What I have been trying to get men to understand is that there is a third way. Not a feminist one that defines men’s utility in relation to women, nor a ‘manosphere’ one that defines women’s utility in relation to a man.

  120. I Art Laughing says:

    @Dalrock

    We all know that a man is not a complete moral creature until he has a woman in his life to define his utility. Without access to reproduction he is an emasculated drone, without access to the woman’s superior morality he is a incorrigible sinner, without access to her civilizing influence he is a barbarian, without her refined use of his money he is a Philistine with pedestrian tastes, and without her there to protect all the benefits of his super strength and size are just a waste.

    Face it, without women, men are totally worthless…..

  121. TFH says:

    Just remember that to a feminist and most Trad Cons, that worry is a benefit you get from being married. So maybe it is male privilege after all…

    Heh. Just like I often tell manginas/whiteknights that paying a woman’s bills while the PUA has sex with her is a benefit of the mangina’s role in society.

  122. TFH says:

    Always remember that the number of babies born in a society is the same even if half the men are killed.

    That is why EVERY society, including Islamic ones, would send a large number of men to die long before any woman faced harm.

    EVEN in societies where women are required to wear veils (which I agree is oppressive), the *lives* of women are valued much higher than men.

    That is why marriage will be packaged in terms of framing negatives as positives for men.

    Men get to worry a lot about finances? A positive!!
    The wife gets fat after marriage? A positive!!

  123. Capt. No-Marriage says:

    I would like to think that the tide is changing among the 30-somethings and for some I do believe it is but not for the masses. Whenever I’ve asked a guy why he’s getting married the first response is usually about what she wanted, it’s the same response I get when I ask these guys why do they want kids. Then if you dig deeper you discover that they come from a divorced home, their friends are divorced and many of their married friends complain about the cost and pressures of a family. Yet, they march forward.

    However the place we might see these guys coming around could be 2nd marriages. Where before you have guys getting married multiple times, perhaps soon they will only have to get burned once to learn.

  124. TFH says:

    chaz345,

    Has she ever considered that men have to build their lives around not getting assaulted by the legal system if she decides to file because she’s not haaaappy?

    Not only that but the fact that women are socialized to see themselves as constantly being in danger doesn’t make it true that they actually are in constant danger. In fact the largely fictional idea that they are in constant danger is as much a weapon of the feminists as it is anything else.

    Gee, that might lead us to conclude that after women get the right to vote, by the time 90 years of such accumulated voting has passed, the entire society will have rigid laws based on all sorts of fiction that devalues everything about the male condition……

    That being said, so-called MRAs seem to be unable to do any real activism (with one or two exceptions like Paul Elam).

    How are they ‘activists’?

  125. Brendan says:

    What I have been trying to get men to understand is that there is a third way. Not a feminist one that defines men’s utility in relation to women, nor a ‘manosphere’ one that defines women’s utility in relation to a man.

    This is just as novel as feminism. It destroys everything, to be honest.

  126. TFH says:

    I don’t think the Androsphere is nearly as limited as YBM is describing. There are MGTOW wings, Game wings, and hybrids too…

    I will say that anyone who is overtly non-complying with feminism, is a red-piller. There are many ways of non-compliance.

  127. ybm says:

    Brendan says:
    July 3, 2012 at 6:47 pm

    Hi Brendan can you give me a little more substance to what you are saying? What is it that will be destroyed? Is what would be destroyed worth saving?

    I agree with you 100% that feminism is not novel, and that neither is mine, but why is that negative? If a novel idea is what we are trying to develop, what would the new idea entail? Every idea that seems to come out of this part of the internet is garden variety ‘man up’.

  128. I am doing something significant as an actual “activist” for the Men’s Right’s movement. Later this month, I will reveal it and share it here.

    as a side note: Deti rules.

    rock on, fellas.

  129. greyghost says:

    What what if men decided to unilaterally take the security part off the table? What if men decided that if they see a woman being dragged into the bushes, they’ll walk away? What if they decided that in the face of an invading force, they got out of the way? If they saw a female coworker with a black eye, they just ignored it?

    ybm
    Standard policy for me is to just ignore women in general. Unless I’m checking them out for sexual potential based on their physical appearance.

  130. ybm says:

    You and me both brother.

    I’m alt-tabbing between this and a new game I purchased yesterday, Crusader Kings 2, highly recommended for history and strategy nerds.

  131. TFH says:

    Samuel,

    I am doing something significant as an actual “activist” for the Men’s Right’s movement. Later this month, I will reveal it and share it here.

    Good! Music to my ears. I await your unveiling eagerly….

    I must warn you that there is a nutty wing of so-called ‘MRAs’ who will not just be indifferent to your activism, but will actually oppose you. You will find this shocking, as I did once…

  132. Legion says:

    chaz345 says:
    July 3, 2012 at 4:50 pm

    ” “An example of male privilege as men-don’t-have-to-think-about-stuff is the extent to which women build their lives around avoiding violence.””

    Is she saying men have never been the victims of violence? How plain stupid is she?

  133. Johnycomelately says:

    Will betas be forced to shrug?
    The number one reason most guys tell me why they haven’t married yet is that they don’t have enough money, with the average house in Australia costing 1/2 a million dollars, family formation is certainly very expensive.
    Australia just introduced a carbon tax that will effectively only be paid by the middle class and singles (single mothers, low income families and pensioners will receive rebates) and higher Medicare costs for high income earners (+84k). With wealth transfers diminishing single men’s savings, one has to wonder the effect it will have on the betas ability to marry.

  134. Chaz345 says:

    @Legion,
    “Is she saying men have never been the victims of violence? How plain stupid is she?” No I don’t think she’s saying that. But men haven’t had to order their entire lives around avoiding violence the way women wrongly believe they have to. See that’s the point I was getting at earlier. The idea that women are in constant imminent danger of violence is fiction, made up to give them leverage.

  135. Chaz345 says:

    @ybm
    “The man is owed submission because of his utility.

    What I have been trying to get men to understand is that there is a third way. Not a feminist one that defines men’s utility in relation to women, nor a ‘manosphere’ one that defines women’s utility in relation to a man.”

    For Christians there is indeed a third way. One that says that men are owed submission because God says so and women are owed “utility” because God says so. Where the entire thing has gone sideways within the church though is when either gender starts being more concerned with what God tells the other to do than what He tells them to do.

  136. van Rooinek says:

    But men haven’t had to order their entire lives around avoiding violence the way women wrongly believe they have to.

    Try being a white man in Los Angeles for a few days, then we’ll talk.

  137. Candide says:

    Johnycomelately, I’m also from Australia and hit by all of those things as a single high income man (although 84K+ being considered high is a fucking joke). I happen to keep spreadsheets of my earning & spending very closely over the years and it is getting harder and harder for a single man to be able to afford an average mortgage and have somewhat of a life. Not that I plan to get married, but if I did, I’d have to earn significantly more. I’d probably have to work myself almost to death like my previous boss, who in his late 30s looks more like early 60s.

    I’m actually pretty well off compared to most of my male friends – we’re mostly a bunch of average urbanites. I really can’t see how they can ever afford a mortgage and kids.

    Having said that, the housing bubble is gonna burst soon and I’m going to bet on it B)

    I’d say that the economy will have a few orders of magnitude bigger impact on the SMP and marriage than betas shrugging upon discovery of red pill truths or how much the laws and courts are against them.

  138. freebird says:

    I love this blog.
    Has the most cerebral comments on the net.
    Half of these comments should be tattoo’d on the backs of young men. Let’s face the hard truth,woman are predatious and will take all the market will give,lassie fair style freedom is not functional for over-consumers.
    It comes at a cost too great for others and society in general.
    Women need control measures,sure,swift,and predictable.
    As to how “fair” these measures need to be is really up to the males in that society,give too much at your peril.

  139. Pingback: Lightning Round – 2012/07/3 « Free Northerner

  140. Legion says:

    greyghost says
    July 3, 2012 at 7:04 pm

    1 – Done. 2 – Which way is Mecca? 3 – done.

  141. freebird says:

    Heavy sigh,having to explain my post well above.
    “we may have to accept the death of the church as we know it.”
    The “church I know of can never die,as it is immortal by definition/nature.
    I’m talking about the elect and the rightfully saved,those whom have read the bible with understanding,have faith,and attempt to live by it’s principles.
    Now to ward off the ‘whomsoever”naysayers in advance,mumbling a few words w/o and personal understanding or sacrifice is NOT what that passage means.
    “Death of the church as we know it” to me-is composed to putting churchianity to eternal rest and resurrecting genuine,yes patriarchal Christianity.
    @koevoet:
    I agree with your post wholeheartedly,would only change “true teachings of the church” to-
    “true teachings of the Bible.”
    I do hope I’ve made myself clear,death to the flesh loving-of this world-compromise principles for cash-church,new life for the pure,clean,spiritual church, exactly what Christ set out to say.
    Roughly=”This church will be demolished,not one stone standing upon another,but (I) WILL resurrect this church in a single day.

  142. Phantasmagoria says:

    It makes me feel bad to admit it but I believe that I would be too paranoid to help women in trouble out of fear that I would get blamed for it. After reading some old blog post about how men are all apparently Schroedinger’s Rapist and that we shouldn’t be allowed to approach anyone without being given express permission before hand, well… you start evaluating the risks of everything.

    ‘Equality’ is a funny thing, hmm?

  143. A♠ says:

    @deti [July 3, 2012 at 12:20 pm]

    It’s breathtakingly frustrating at getting women to understand that.

    I can’t tell you how many times I’ve told women:

    Make a Facebook page – as a man; use an average man’s photo.and copy the interests of men around you into the bio-page.

    Then start posting/sending friend requests.

    See how people treat you.

  144. freebird says:

    As to the comments of “mra’s who are actively against action, and have no intention of action” I would say those are not MRA’s by definition,most likely MGTOW’s, whom are or feel too disenfranchised or powerless against the system to act.
    These men are actually “doing” more by omission than those who act by commission in my opinion.By boycotting marriage and the system the starve it out and bring it to the table of concessions where real MRA’s can then set proper terms.
    A time and a season for all things.
    Right now leaderless resistance seems the way to go as the system is invested in harming those who speak against it.

  145. TFH says:

    freebird,

    I would say those are not MRA’s by definition,most likely MGTOW’s, whom are or feel too disenfranchised or powerless against the system to act.

    True.

    But they should not be shooting down other people’s activism. That itself is not true to the MGTOW ethos…as they are demanding that other like-minded men share their views.

    Also, I am skeptical that a man under 50 can be happy with no relationship with women. If MGTOWs had a Zen-like serenity, they might have more credibility. But the actual MGTOWs around here seem to either be very angry, very depressed, or both…

    Men over 50, yes, solitude might be their happiest state. e.g. Zed.

  146. Lavazza says:

    “I’d say that the economy will have a few orders of magnitude bigger impact on the SMP and marriage than betas shrugging upon discovery of red pill truths or how much the laws and courts are against them.”

    Yeah, for society as a whole, but for the individual being ahead of the curve is an individual advantage. For me the meta explanation of most things in society, economy and culture the last couple of decades is abundance of cheap energy, but that came to an end in 2006.

  147. Lavazza says:

    “Also, I am skeptical that a man under 50 can be happy with no relationship with women. If MGTOWs had a Zen-like serenity, they might have more credibility. But the actual MGTOWs around here seem to either be very angry, very depressed, or both…”

    Integration is always hard. One life is not enough.

  148. Lavazza says:

    “The Sanskrit word ‘Kleshas’ literally translates as afflictions of the mind. According the yogic beliefs, the true nature of all beings is perfect, immortal, unchanging – all-one permeating Self. Yet, somehow most humans do not experience their own potential and believe they are without peace, love, perfection. This creates a constant striving state of un-ease and desire for fulfilment.”

    “2.3 There are five kinds of coloring (kleshas): 1) forgetting, or ignorance about the true nature of things (avidya), 2) I-ness, individuality, or egoism (asmita), 3) attachment or addiction to mental impressions or objects (raga), 4) aversion to thought patterns or objects (dvesha), and 5) love of these as being life itself, as well as fear of their loss as being death.
    (avidya asmita raga dvesha abhinivesha pancha klesha)”

  149. I would say that any man who thinks he will not be noticing women after he turns 50 is in for a rude surprise.

  150. Lovekraft says:

    If you are going to marry, pay the marriage tax (also known as a Pre-Nup). Ignore all attempts at shaming. Protect your assets even if the woman is virtuous and obedient because it is the corrupt court system you need to protect yourself from.

    And continue to mock shallow cultural influences wherever and whenever they appear (with a healthy dose of scripture to back you up).

  151. Jim says:

    Most MGTOW’s are either divorced or socially disenfranchised because of how they were brought up, treated, or what was taught to them. I’m used to solitude because I was a picked on fat kid with zero self esteem and learned to be alone. It’s why I can live alone now and be content. And in all honestly I really don’t try with women. Especially with my record but I take responsibility for it. Shouldn’t have ever allowed them into my life to begin with.

    Look, we live in a society that frowns down upon ethics for glam and flash and false hopes. Women are nuts because they can act out any way without recourse. It’s their society and one that cannot be contained anymore. I can interact, I tease, hell I talk sexual innuendo all day long but in the end I simply don’t have the energy to keep a woman. They are out of control and cannot be trusted because they are handed everything, told they are not liable, and given free reign. And the older I get, the less I’m open to even dealing with it. Yeah people talk about passing on genes and truth be told I did want to have a family. But not in these times nor in a nation that does everything to create barriers to its success. My main goal now is to go keep as much of my productivity out of the system and hope it collapses. And it will. Many are tired of being lied to, have their wages taxed to oblivion while the unproductive flourish, and have no voice to speak up. We are not independent in the USA nor am I proud to call myself an American. If anything, I’m ashamed of what the nation and it’s cultural values has become. This isn’t the country I was raised up in.

  152. freebird says:

    Thanks jim, saved me a lot of typing.
    “ditto”
    Note:age 48,in transition from outrage to zen.
    Not my job to fix the world,but I can sure point a finger at hypocrisy when I see it.
    @TFH good post, I have no idea why any sane person would oppose men’s activism, you must have run across a misunderstanding or a troll,or a person having a bad day.

  153. Thanks Jim – you said it succinctly.
    In addition, the apostle Paul nailed it spot on in 1 Cor 7 ” he who refrains from marriage will do even better.”

  154. Jim says:

    The collapse is coming sooner than you think. The EU won’t dissolve because the PIGS will be forced out. It’ll dissolve because Germany and the UK (who isn’t on the Euro currency) will leave first. And because the big socialist systems will tax their most productive right out of their host nations and the bigger economies will do their best to get them with incentives. Infighting for taxes will be the death of the Eurozone and could even possibly lead to the break up of NATO and another European war.

    And that of course will trickle over here where socialism will increase the burden on the middle class even more and cause many to simply give up. This country cannot go on when a political class is above the Constitution and fully fund a lower class to keep them in power. I fully expect to see a time come in the next few years of increasing incarceration for merely speaking up. For refusing to give up firearms. For refusing to pay taxes or work. For refusing to conform. The NDAA, the Patriot Act, the upcoming electronic Utah monitoring sight and resulting internet blackouts and clampdown on free speech are rapidly leading us to total tyranny. And many Americans who speak up or refuse to comply will be labeled as terrorist and punished. I fully expect a heavy handed response form the powers that be for many but whatever happens, do no be afraid or use that as an excuse to give in. It’ll get worse before it gets better.

  155. @ Jim – this is off thread. But, by silencing & incarcerating via NDAA & Patriot of those with mental/spiritual IQ would leaves the nation wide. In addition, I could foresee a underground of those who dont tow the line. The result would be a manifold civil war.

  156. Justinian says:

    @TFH

    The hardcore MGTOW faction that don’t want to do anything are delusional about their ability to continue avoiding action. They may not be interested in participating in the world, but the world sure is interested in them participating on the world’s terms.

    Historically, whenever there have been large numbers of men who do not have the status to get married and form families we get institutions like slavery and serfdom.

    Sooner or later, men are going to have to either stand up or live totaly at the behest of thier masters.

    If they continue to do nothing for themselves, they will eventually be seen as the ideal resource to be exploited: a disposable male with no family connections and no power.

  157. deti says:

    Michael Singer:

    Agree that that verse in I Cor. 7 says that; but you’re slightly off in application. A fuller understanding of that verse is “he who refrains from marriage will do even better” for the purpose of serving God on earth. St. Paul’s points were that (1) there are some men who are called not to be married for whatever reason; and (2) men who are called to God’s full time service and ministry, as Paul was, should not marry. Paul’s personal view was that his call to full time missionary work just prevented his devoting time, money and resources to marriage and fatherhood. Tradition holds that St. Paul never married.

    There are those who disagree with those concepts for many reasons, some valid, some not; but I think that was St. Paul’s original meaning.

    If a man is called to a life of solitude, then he should follow that. If he is called by God to something other than marriage, he should follow that. Some have been burned badly by marriage and I respect their choice to remain single. But my own personal view is a man should not refuse to marry just for the sake of not being married. There should be a good reason for it: he’s called to it or a prior marriage ended badly for some reason.

  158. Can someone tell me what kind of an MRA would actively oppose Men’s rights activism?

    I need to know.

  159. @ Deti – I agree with you regarding 1 Cor 7. There are quite a bit of stipulations in the scriptures and one has to keep it in context ( ie better to marry than burn with lust vs in view of the present distress ait is good for a person to remain as he is) and that is where the “rub” is at.
    Marriage is not a platform to make one happy. Rotherham ( famous baptist bible translator) said it the best ” marriage is is used to perfect you” ie turn one into a saint.

    With that being said – choose prayfully and carefully – One is purchasing a life long instructor and instruction ( I had to learn this lesson the hard way).

    It is FAR better to be single than married and miserable – this is seen throughout the scriptures.
    Pro 25:24 It is better to live in a corner of the housetop than in a house shared with a quarrelsome wife.

    As for myself, I dont want to encumbered by a woman or marriage. I have been engaged a couple of times after my divorce to so-called Spirit filled “Christian” women who had no idea of discipleship yet wanted a “real Christian man”. What they wanted was a pukewarm Sunday only beta pew seat warmer who would pick up the tab and put up with their bad relationship etiquette ( btw, I have no problem meeting/dating women my age and 10-15 years younger). I am not wasting my time, attention, or $$$ ( I prefer my friends, interests, and my dog).
    I am putting my hopes beyond this life and putting Jesus / His Kingdom first and going for the first resurrection.
    I suggest a re-read of Pilgrims Progress & The Christian in Complete Armour to all who are serious about following Jesus.

  160. Anacaona says:

    If a man is called to a life of solitude, then he should follow that. If he is called by God to something other than marriage, he should follow that.

    I didn’t knew your “religious” side. Is very funny but I wanted to be a nun for the longest time (but then this is a normal stage in catholic cultures as is wanting to be an astronaut is USA, though I wanted to be both. Nun astronaut? So crazy that it might work! :D)
    But I later had issues with the church (more philosophical than anything) and I though I could serve God (not the church) a lot better as an exemplary mother and wife, which colored a lot of my natural leanings and my later choices.
    So do you have any alternative for a red piller that does feels the calling to be a husband and father but he knows “the way of the world” is corrupted?

  161. TFH says:

    Samuel Solomon,

    Can someone tell me what kind of an MRA would actively oppose Men’s rights activism?
    I need to know.

    You’ll see.

    In general, there are those who are so accustomed to feeling like victims, that they want nothing to change. They want to be a designated victim group, which will never happen, since no one cares about male suffering.

    There is also a small subgroup who idolizes MRAs from the 90s and even 80s, and thus insist that every bit of activism has to recognize *them* as the spiritual leaders (even if the original person in question never asked for this ‘cult of personality’ following). They will shoot down your activism and accuse you of copying an original idea, just because someone from the 80s tried something vaguely similar back then (even if that was before the Internet).

    You will be shocked at the type of opposition you receive, despite how small of a cause we are. Read this thread of comments for just a glimpse of this phenomenon.

    But there are a lot of us who will encourage you every step of the way too. Just ignore the losers and focus on those who value activism.

    freebird,

    you must have run across a misunderstanding or a troll,or a person having a bad day.

    Oh, it is much worse. There are lunatics who have attacked me daily for 2 years, simply for proposing a flyer campaign that directs men to Androsphere websites (which, ultimately, gets us the increased exposure that we want). ‘Bad Day’ would be more like ‘bad life’ when referring to them.

  162. Höllenhund says:

    They want to be a designated victim group, which will never happen, since no one cares about male suffering.

    If no one cares about male suffering, what’s the point in any activism for men’s rights?

  163. TFH says:

    Hollenhund,

    Well, not ‘no one’ as a 100% absolute, but rather, humanity does not have any built-in value for male life like it has for female life.

    See my July 3, 6:37 PM comment above for more details. 100 men dying on a battlefield do not get the sympathy of a woman who claims she was raped (whether in reality or just a false accusation).

    Activism gets more information, and more options, in the hands of individual men, so they can make more informed choices. These choices can range from expatriation, to organizing against laws (the primary action that is conspicuously absent at present), to advising younger men what comprises the best risk/reward ratio in life.

  164. Höllenhund says:

    If I’m not mistaken, “activism” as a word is generally understood to mean something different than informing men about personal options such as expatriation. It means organized political action. But again, if no one cares about male suffering, why bother trying to get the laws changed?

  165. ybm says:

    “Justinian says:
    July 4, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    If they continue to do nothing for themselves, they will eventually be seen as the ideal resource to be exploited: a disposable male with no family connections and no power.”

    What a cop out. “Do nothing for themselves”. Is the man who only works hard enough to pay for his own way not doing things for himself? Is the man who avoids marriage doing nothing for himself? Is the man who refuses to go to war to protect “our women” doing nothing for himself? Is the man who turns his back on the old order of providing ‘chivalry’ and security to women who already see him as disposable doing nothing for himself?

    You speak as if your scenario does not exist. It has always existed until men start to exist ONLY for themselves. And ignore whatever utility women/elites try to derive from them. Men are already disposable, and you are being deliberately manipulative by implying that if a man doesn’t ‘man-up’ he will be seen as disposable.

    He already is.

  166. @Anacaona “So do you have any alternative for a red piller that does feels the calling to be a husband and father but he knows “the way of the world” is corrupted?”
    Interesting choice of words “feels the calling”.
    All males “feel” a glandular urge – its built in. “Men” that are responsible will go about this in such a way knowing that life is difficult at best and everyone has a cross to bare. Everyone including the Son of God – no one is exempt.
    He will do do his best to find someone likeminded with character, integrity, smart, good upbringing, chaste and attractive ( this eliminates 99% of American women).
    That leaves a whopping 1% or less.
    Given the odds – best to leave that up God and His will. If He can take care of a couple million people in the wilderness for 40 years, then he can bring the right person along at the right time.
    The temptation is to jump the gun.
    Just as a reminder, God has pretty good taste and is far more concerned about ones happiness than one realizes.

  167. Anacaona says:

    Interesting choice of words “feels the calling”.

    I hope I didn’t offended anyone that is pretty much the way I describe it to myself.

    The temptation is to jump the gun.Just as a reminder, God has pretty good taste and is far more concerned about ones happiness than one realizes.

    Heh this is another philosophical issue I had with the church it seems too passive for me. I did my best to search and find a good man (although he is not religious he is the best man I have ever know) and try to fix whatever things were on the way of being selected by a man like him. I did some praying too. This position reminds me to a conversation I had with some other HUSies in which they say that there is a lot of “luck” involved into finding a good person to marry…I really think you can make your own luck and in the same vein I do believe God helps the ones that help themselves, again not meaning to criticize or offend is just my POV. Let’s see what deti thinks

  168. TFH says:

    Hollenhund,

    As I said in the above quote : ” to organizing against laws (the primary action that is conspicuously absent at present),”

    As I said as well, society in general does not care, but men themselves care about themselves (even if the same men don’t care about other men). A man still cares about his own basic human rights.

    Also, if we are to claim that we are a civilization, and that the ideals in any first-world constitution are for real and not just selectively applied, then a society has to be serious about these things, including not oppressing people who don’t complain about oppression. If women are not civilized enough to think along those lines, then we have overestimated whether we are a ‘civilization’ or not.

    That is why it is necessary to get the laws changed, or at least be making aggressive efforts to do so.
    _________________________________________

    Now, as far as organizing to get the laws changed…

    Every time, in real life, when I introduce a new person to all this, even if they grasp the red-pill concepts readily..

    ….Without fail, everyone asks the legitimate question of why there is no lobbying to change the laws, lawsuits to challenge the constitutionality of various feminist laws, children’s rights to have a father and the case that that should supercede a woman’s right to eject the father, etc.

    Not being able to show them what is being done, outside of Paul Elam’s register-her.com (itself now seemingly defunct) and a couple other pieces of activism, costs us credibility. Particularly when just about every other cause assembles an apparatus right away…

  169. Höllenhund says:

    Haven’t we already established that women are indeed “not civilized enough to think along those lines”, TFH? What’s new about that?

    Caring about your own civil rights isn’t sufficient to induce change. And men, especially older married men with daughters, indeed don’t care about other men.

  170. Legion says:

    David Collard says:
    July 4, 2012 at 3:36 am
    “I would say that any man who thinks he will not be noticing women after he turns 50 is in for a rude surprise.”

    +1
    My understanding is that 70 is more the magic number.

  171. P Ray says:

    @Legion:
    It makes more sense not to notice _any_ women who don’t meet your attractiveness standards.
    Otherwise, all you are doing is confirming that “all men are horndogs, only after one thing, they only see women as a sheathe”.
    Having standards – saves time, effort, heartache and money!

  172. TFH says:

    Oh, and a very important point that I forgot :

    It is not possible to harm one gender without harming the other.

    This is true in every example of misandry, of course, but it is also true in the rare instances where females are mistreated (like selective abortion in China, which will lead to a shortage of women relative to the male population).

    That is yet another reason why if this is a ‘civilization’, it needs to oppose misandry, and organization to oppose misandric laws, should happen, even if extremely few people care about the suffering of men.

  173. P Ray says:

    ^ True that.
    When women compete with men for the top jobs …
    there will be fewer men for them to marry up to. :)
    As Morpheus said “Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony.”

  174. TFH says:

    Hollenhund,

    I fail to see what point you are trying to make. Are you saying that activism regretably *will not* happen because practically no one cares about male suffering? Or that activism *should not* be attempted because it cannot gain real traction in society, for that reason?

    Clarify..
    ___________________________________________________

    I will point out that the activism I do see is distinctly from places outside the Androsphere.

    For example, Brian Banks got a lot of help from the California Innocence Project, which is an org that is never mentioned in the Androsphere. Also, his documentary was planned outside of here, and most of the money raised outside of here.

    Furthermore, the one person who has done the most to bring exposure to misandry, and who soon has a book coming out, is neither closely tied to the Androsphere, nor even a man. That is person is Dr. Helen.

  175. TFH says:

    P Ray,

    It was never natural for the feces of a creature to be present in a home where humans live. In the old days, pet dogs and cats (who were semi-feral anyway) just went outside to a place well removed from the home. Many people lived on farms, or at least near the woods or open fields.

    The presence of a litterbox, necessitated by law and human population density, is itself an indicator that such an arrangement is unnatural.

  176. ballista74 says:

    @Anacaona

    As for your writing, don’t feel too bad about it. You seem to be doing pretty well, as I see it here and on your blog. Remember, we all have our failings, mistakes, and things to work on depending on the standards that we set for ourselves or the ones we have to meet. There is always room for improvement for anyone, and I’ll be one of the first to admit that my writing isn’t the best it could be.

    As for editors and evaluators and the like, just remember that a lot of what you see will depend on the person involved. For example with my college experience, I’ve had A papers and F papers both (and one that was both – long story) due to grammatical and other “writing” related issues. Different people have different standards, and as things go, I wish I was originally taught how to write with better standards than what I was (yeah, public schooling strikes again).

    As for your work being subject to an editor, don’t feel bad about that either. If you write for profit it will happen anyway. As long as you go in with the goal of your work being the best it can be, it’ll go well because the editor will usually have the same goal in mind. Then if you look at or read your work long enough, it’ll start to blend together and you won’t notice the errors anyway. It helps to have a second (or even third) set of eyes to spot things that you wouldn’t have given enough time.

  177. @ Anacaona ” God helps those who help themselves” Sounds good but not scriptural.
    If you can find “God helps those who help themselves” that in the holy scriptures then you will me in awe.
    Truth is God does NOT help those who help themselves.
    Take a look at the Garden of Eden, Abraham/Sarah/Hagar just to name a few ( I could mash up about 15 + more examples in the OT/NT if you wish).
    Peter asked Jesus BEFORE he walked on the water. Peter didn’t move till he heard from Jesus. The other 11 disciples could have had a good ole fashioned Ashkenazic dance on the water “IF’ they had asked. Peter was the only one who had the brains and the balls to ask. Remember the story of Joseph – in prison one day and the next 2nd in all of Egypt. David and Abigail is a great story ( Abigail is one smart woman) helps out a bad boy and his men and next is queen in Israel. Remember God created Adam/Eve to have fun(pro-create) and obey God ( the first two commandments given to man). Needless to say – God wants joy for us and that is seen throughout the scriptures. But it is not with Western values – if you try to save your life – you will lose it.
    I suggest Christians to go back in read the scriptures and get over all personal autonomy (this is a battle – if one follows Jesus as a cross carrying disciple rather than their own brains- one will be much better off.
    Btw, being a disciple is denying oneself, picking up your cross, and following Jesus ( That means one goes HIS way). Psalm 37:4 says it beautifully – Delight yourself in the LORD and he will give you the desires of your heart. Proverb Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding and in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. – This is DIRECTLY AGAINST the scientific method.

    Shalom!

  178. Thank you, Michael, that is well worth thinking about. I have observed too that God seems to create order of whatever mess we create, if we pray and rely on Him for guidance. We are not clever and insightful enough to do it for ourselves. We need to ask Our Father.

    Another way to put it is what Pope Benedict said on being elected, “God writes straight with crooked instruments [men]“.

  179. Anacaona says:

    @ballista
    Thanks for your words of encouragement. I know the whole “getting used to the work so much that you miss glaring errors” I worked editing books and we had one case were a clear misspelling on the cover of the book of all places that was missed by all 7 persons (editors, proofreaders, designers…) and our secretary was the one that noticed it on the last minute. It definitely helps having a couple more of eyes taking a look at my work anyway so I should just get over it no one is perfect.

    @THF
    Cosign your posts. You are not going to go anywhere with Holle (and some others that actively oppose activism…I think there is irony on that too) but I do agree if they don’t believe in activism why are they so dead set in discouraging the ones that do? Going their own way can also mean going their own way while doing some activism, once in a while at least, IMO.

  180. TFH says:

    Anacaona,

    Thanks. Hollenhund is a good guy, and I have no dispute with him.

    There are others, however (who shall remain nameless) who are pretty obsessed with blocking/denigrating any activism, that too under the most bizarre rationales (like ‘someone did something vaguely similar in the 80s, so you shouldn’t do an Internet version of it now’).
    _________________________________________

    Now, as for you, remember, the BEST thing you can possibly do is to tell MEN what you know about misandry (sending them to Dalrock’s blog, etc.). Only men. Don’t bother attempting to convert women. Telling men will have a very high impact, because you will usually be the first woman to ever utter these things to them, which itself has a big impact. It will be a moment they never forget. You have immense power in this regard, and could save many lives…

  181. Jacquie says:

    Michael Singer says:
    “I suggest Christians to go back in read the scriptures and get over all personal autonomy (this is a battle – if one follows Jesus as a cross carrying disciple rather than their own brains- one will be much better off.”

    It’s also interesting to go back and read the scriptures after new insight. Since leaving our last church, changing my view of my husband and realizing what was really going on around me I began rereading scriptures with a different perspective, abandoning much of what had been taught in the churches and looking at them with new eyes, and a fresh appreciation. It is like reading God’s Word for the first time.
    Churches also sadly do not encourage women to go to their husbands for learning as instructed in scripture. I have a new appreciation for seeking wisdom from my husband. Understanding the context of the verses, the culture at the time of the writing, even going back to original language has proven that much of my perception of scripture was skewed.

  182. Anacaona says:

    @ Anacaona ” God helps those who help themselves” Sounds good but not scriptural.

    In theology class we did learned this was not biblical quote, but we discussed that there is not a biblical reason to be active on God’s plans. One of the examples we got was from Parable of the talents in Matthew 25:14-30 and with the use of Minas in Luke 19:12-27.
    In which the servant that keeps the talent and doesn’t do anything with it for “fear of its lord” but the ones that goes out and take the risk is rewarded with prosperity and his lord’s trust and praise, thus the waiting for the Lord to act in one behalf is not necessarily what the Lord wants, depending on your particular tradition that is, this after all is an interpretation.

  183. Jacquie says:

    @ Anacaona
    The problem with the statement “God helps those who help themselves” is that it implies that man gets God’s blessing for leaning on his own and making his own way with or without regard for who God is.
    The parables you learned from in Matthew and Luke do not teach this, but instead make it clear that the servants had something given to them by their master, not something they possessed on their own. Just as God has given all of us talents and gifts we are to use them to bring the increase to God and not for ourselves, nor are we to hide what we have been given but to use it.

  184. Anacaona says:

    Now, as for you, remember, the BEST thing you can possibly do is to tell MEN what you know about misandry (sending them to Dalrock’s blog, etc.). Only men. Don’t bother attempting to convert women. Telling men will have a very high impact, because you will usually be the first woman to ever utter these things to them, which itself has a big impact. It will be a moment they never forget. You have immense power in this regard, and could save many lives…

    Interesting concept. I had been experimenting telling my own husband some things: false rape accusation cases, divorce rape… (he was raised by his very feminist mother, although her mother is Silent so she still married to his father so no frivolous divorce) and he still is on “some women are bad, so avoid them, those are isolated cases” he still doesn’t get the connection to feminism and he wouldn’t read any of this sites since most of his liberal friends already warned him this is full of crazy bitter men. I will keep trying but I consider this part of the “long” process of getting it, I just hope he does get it before our son actually gets damaged for this, or before any of his friends get raped in divorce court, if anything so he can know how to support them properly.

    I’m not sure if me telling a man would have any effect, for real. I’m experimenting with giving small bits of info to people to seem to have a bit of common sense and that are aware of “something being off in the world” this is one of the reasons I support the wiki I can sent them to a more or less “friendly” site so they can actually have some data to work with.
    I’m also dealing with cuckoldry on my novel and treating it as the crime it is I think fiction is powerful and so far passing a child as the kid of some man that is not really his, had been depicted as “positive” so I’m trying to show some things considered normal as bad for men and specially for children. So doing what I can and see what works or not.

  185. Anacaona says:

    Just as God has given all of us talents and gifts we are to use them to bring the increase to God and not for ourselves, nor are we to hide what we have been given but to use it.

    Would you elaborate in this part?

  186. ybm says:

    Well, just remember to stand up for men inside your head and everything will be fine for you I guess hahahahaha.

  187. Anacaona says:

    Well, just remember to stand up for men inside your head and everything will be fine for you I guess hahahahaha.

    Not funny. I do what I can and I’m not over to correct a woman when she is being unfair to a man, I just don’t think men listen to women, like you just proved.

  188. TFH says:

    Anacaona,

    Of course they listen to men. That is why so many men are manginas. By giving them information that is the opposite of what most other women tell them, you will get one of two reactions :

    i) Manginas will get confused about what their orders are. This also weakens their misandry, which helps the world….
    ii) The men who *can* get it, will.

    Remember, you don’t have to teach them everything. Referring them to a blog like Dalrock’s can start the detoxification process..

    If they are manginas, shame them, and shame them hard.
    If they are potential thinkers, feed them these blogs….

  189. TFH says:

    **Of course they listen to WOMEN (corrected).

  190. @Anacaona – since you mentioned the parable of the talents and how “doesn’t do anything with it for “fear of its lord” “.
    Please allow me to bring you back to the scripture and context since he did do something with it as seen in Matt 25:18 “went and dug in the ground and hid his master’s money.”
    There are many gifts given to the body of Christ for the purpose of building the body of Christ and the Kingdom. One has to lay EVERYTHING aside as Paul did in Phil 3:8 to gain the knowledge of Christ. Pauls gift was one of a apostle of which he rocked the educational, political, religious, financial market, and even withstood the apostles of Christ – turns out he was right and everyone else was wrong (pretty amazing). Paul gave up the right to marry, his Jewish family, religious association, and place of prominence in society (he was a Roman citizen) to become a jailbird and eventually become beheaded.
    ” I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds.” Pauls writings (ie bulk of the NT) has brought life to MILLIONS of people throughout history.
    To find ones gift takes a very serious walk with Jesus – this is done by praying, waiting on Jesus, and being led by the Spirit and not a glandular urge ( the sons of God are led by the Spirit of God in strict obedience and not being presumptuous).
    Presumption is dangerous – it is the mind of man and not God – read Joshua, Saul, and the OT/NT. This was pray that brought sweating blood out of Jesus – “not my will but yours be done”.
    There is no disappointment in Jesus – none – He is a Majestic King who is Master of the Universe and in the bosom of the Father. Get to know Him and ask Him for His joy and peace. If He likes you – He might show you the den of leopards or take you on the mountains of spices ( Song of Songs). Btw, God does have His favorites and there is direct correspondence with calling and obedience.
    In the meantime, I would request my tuition money back from the theologian who taught that class. Presumption is dangerous and has stern warnings in the scriptures.
    Btw, from a Jewish Christian perspective – Western Christian theology is not scripturally based. However, there are exceptions Dietrich Bonhoeffer is one of them – The Cost of Discipleship is insightful and life changing.

  191. Can someone tell me what kind of an MRA would actively oppose Men’s rights activism?
    I need to know.

    TFH already covered a lot of this, but another groups of “MRAs” (if you can call them that) that oppose activism do so for reasons based on conspiracy theory. Their BS reasons for opposing activism will be something like, “The government/elites/Rockefellers/Illuminati/reptile aliens have a plan to cause men to angry and revolt by taking away their rights so that they can crack down and impose a police state so engaging in activism is doing what the government/elites/Rockefellers/Illuminati/reptile aliens want.” Obviously, that’s insane, but that is what a “MRA” who opposes activism looks like.

  192. Anacaona says:

    Presumption is dangerous and has stern warnings in the scriptures.

    I agree, but then how do you know this has not being shown to me by the spirit after prayer and that I don’t have joy and peace already and that I’m doing his will?

  193. @Anacaona Time tells all (CS Lewis). Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
    Outcomes are quite predictable in terms of being spiritually yoked.
    Btw, I made a huge mistake on not being equally spiritually yoked even though I thought she was a very good person. Biggest mistake of my life and learned quite a bit from it.

  194. Anacaona says:

    Time tells all (CS Lewis)

    Indeed, time will tell. Thank you for your time and patience.

  195. Likewise.
    Btw, the morals a man exhibits during courtship (or lack thereof) will be his measure of a character and morals he will impart to his wife and offspring. Statistics show that in the spades.
    I have found that many woman think they change change a man after he is married – quite wrong. They soon discover it doesnt work and the man will hate the woman for it.
    One cant force morals, God, family values , or beliefs on another person even with the promise of sex- it doesn’t work ( ie if you really loved me – you would change BS)
    Only really smart, chaste, educated women brought up in a good home get this and marry men withe like values( ie Non American).

  196. Höllenhund says:

    @Anacaona

    You are not going to go anywhere with Holle (and some others that actively oppose activism…I think there is irony on that too) but I do agree if they don’t believe in activism why are they so dead set in discouraging the ones that do?

    It’s the exhortation of others to engage in activism that I oppose, not necessarily activism itself. Because imploring men to assume great personal risk by openly waging political struggle against feminism isn’t really justifiable on websites where the main message is men’s self-preservation.

    The simple fact is that if you’re a woman who’s dissatisfied with the current SMP/MMP for whatever reason and you want something to be done about it, you’re on your own. Nobody will fight your dirty battles for you. Your gender’s old, tried and tested tactic of “let’s you and him fight” is becoming less efficient by each passing day. You won’t be able to amass a beta army of useful idiots, ready to bayonet-charge feminist positions, by pimping yourself as a damsel in distress, complaining about the sad current affairs. More and more betas are wising up, and the ones that don’t are pretty much useless politically, and you don’t want them anyway.

    You know well that one woman can do more against feminism than a thousand men. If you refuse to capitalize on that, tough luck.

    Men need to think about personal options, because that’s all we have.

  197. Höllenhund says:

    @PMAFT

    The government/elites/Rockefellers/Illuminati/reptile aliens have a plan to cause men to angry and revolt by taking away their rights so that they can crack down and impose a police state so engaging in activism is doing what the government/elites/Rockefellers/Illuminati/reptile aliens want.

    It sounds loony but it isn’t entirely far-fetched.

    Feminists just love to have political enemies that are easily identifiable, organized and resort to the same old tactics of political activism. They love the role of political defender, protecting morally superior victims (i.e. women) from henious attack. They actually seem to feel delighted whenever they find some organization, preferably a right-wing one, they can complain about.

    Another typical characteristic of a feminist is the hunger for political power. If you just assume that a feminist wants more political power, there’s a 99% chance you’re right. They will find any excuse to gain more power and strangle their enemies with even more oppressive and authoritarian laws. They love authoritarian, centralized leftist governments. The supposed danger of any organized anti-feminist force will give them that.

    And why would we want to give feminists exactly what they want?

  198. P Ray says:

    ^ That’s why I quickly lost a lot of female users that I knew, by telling them to either pay me for a service or do it themselves.
    Men can learn this lesson young if they value themselves

  199. P Ray says:

    @Höllenhund:
    Feminists love an opponent that they can easily hit, with the weapons of shame, relational aggression, job denial and work-buck-passing.
    A dispersed mass of men, each knowing that every woman is out for the best deal – so he must also be on his toes not to be suckered -
    is a nightmare for them.

  200. Anacaona says:

    Nobody will fight your dirty battles for you. Your gender’s old, tried and tested tactic of “let’s you and him fight” is becoming less efficient by each passing day. You won’t be able to amass a beta army of useful idiots, ready to bayonet-charge feminist positions, by pimping yourself as a damsel in distress, complaining about the sad current affairs.

    ???? This is what you think I’m saying? I’m mostly supporting a view I agree with that ANOTHER MAN, expressed, but I guess I should had “support him on my head” instead of saying anything…

  201. Comment_Whatever says:

    Feminists just love to have political enemies that are easily identifiable, organized and resort to the same old tactics of political activism. They love the role of political defender, protecting morally superior victims (i.e. women) from henious attack. They actually seem to feel delighted whenever they find some organization, preferably a right-wing one, they can complain about.

    I have no idea who you are talking about.

    All mainstream political discourse pulls punches when dealing with women so hard they are practically beating up themselves when they complain about women.

    For an example of some straight talk:

    Actually Critical of Women:
    “Very few women die on the job because women refuse to do dangerous jobs because they are cowards.”

    Woman Defender:
    “Women are the most valuable sex, blah, blah, blah”

    Real Critic:
    “Women are also very, very vain and think far to much of themselves.”

    Women Defender:
    “The woman’s precious egg is limited where as a single man could….”

    Real Critic:
    “So post-menopausal women are the least valuable people?”

    Woman Defender begins shaking and then his head explodes like in Scanners.

  202. Breeze says:

    @ ybm: A wiki could easily work. just limit editorship to a couple of people (e.g Dalrock, Keoni and one other). All potential articles have to be submitted to them. Create a forum for the rest of you to discuss what needs editting among yourselves. If you cannot agree then its not edited. If you can then submit it to Dalrock et al

    TFH says: “But the ‘aggressively opposed to activism’ wing of the MRM is getting more shrill lately.” Probably a lot of those guys are false flaggers in there to ensure that the MRM remains a paper tiger where frustrated losers pound away at keyboards and jerk off to pron.

  203. ybm says:

    Breeze says:
    July 5, 2012 at 4:10 am

    Its your movement, do whatever you want. I am neither an MRA nor a ‘red-piller’. But I would recommend that if you want your wiki to be taken seriously you don’t put someone who believes the ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion’ is real in charge of deciding what you believe in.

  204. Höllenhund says:

    ???? This is what you think I’m saying?

    No. Not you, personally, and certainly not overtly. But the fact is this: one can encounter many women online who claim to be fed up by the SMP, or sex relations in general, demanding that something be done about it. When asked to clarify their position though, one usually finds what they actually mean is that men should finally band together and do something politically.

  205. an observer says:

    Anyone for conspiracy theories?

    Any nation with many unemployed, disaffected young men could manufacture issues demanding a legislative response.

    Mra groups could be a target for incitement, or an outright false flag incident. The former would only require an angry, disenfranchised divorced man. The latter could be targeted at any group of men.

    Either could produce draconian limits on male freedoms, imposed specifically or generally.

    Not that far fetched.

  206. Höllenhund says:

    The problem with “many unemployed, disaffected young men” isn’t that they will resort to political activism with the specific aim of protecting men’s rights – that’s unlikely. The problem is that they’re easily recruited to support other, more convenient (so to speak), populist political goals that have greater allure. This increases political instability.

    But yes, the possibility of false flag ops and the so-called strategy of tension isn’t far-fetched. COINTELPRO and Operation Gladio prove that, for example.

  207. freebird says:

    “ustinian says:
    July 4, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    @TFH

    The hardcore MGTOW faction that don’t want to do anything are delusional about their ability to continue avoiding action. They may not be interested in participating in the world, but the world sure is interested in them participating on the world’s terms.”

    What would you have me “do” my friend.”
    Is it something you are not willing to do yourself,today?
    Please be specific,this request will also be extended to TFH.
    I do like the fliers for restroom idea,just have not gotten around to that as I do not frequent bars and another establishments that are predatory to men,via redistribution to women and the pre-crime vice lawz.
    IE: drinking and driving is not a crime unless a person or property has been injured,as defined in our Constitution.
    Greater than %80 of those men incarcerated are in on vice crimes.
    (non violent)

    MGTOW is very lucrative as there is no immediate punishment.
    “America is at that awkward stage…”
    Ayn Rand

  208. freebird says:

    “Either could produce draconian limits on male freedoms, imposed specifically or generally”

    Already there.
    God help us if more is to come.

  209. freebird says:

    @TFH:
    I went to the pro-male-anti-feminist link and read the comments as requested,as really did not see anything adversarial.
    Good on you guys on the fund raising drive.
    I saw the call to action posts and was broke at the time,and frankly had qualms about the 3 days time limit.Why not provide more time?
    I’m sure there is a valid and logical reason for that,but it didn’t fit into my situation.
    Now-the real question will be-how to get that video-once made-to be viewed by the maximum number of people?
    I gotta say the wimmins spouting the vagina monologues on the front of the Michigan Capitol, and the subsequent media painting them as oppressed does not bode well.
    A recent Executive order clearly states any media outlet may be used for propaganda,and
    faux news has openly asserted the right to lie outright,that was challenged in a court of law and the right to lie was upheld.

    There is a LOT of power in the misandrist VAWA laws.
    Power and money.
    Fighting Town Hall is not going to be easy,expect attacks against those who do,and those attacks to be upheld and ensconced by the “legal” apparatus.

    Hiding looks like the best option to me.
    That and ultimate resistance past my Castle threshold.

  210. Dalrock says:

    @Anacaona

    Interesting concept. I had been experimenting telling my own husband some things: false rape accusation cases, divorce rape… (he was raised by his very feminist mother, although her mother is Silent so she still married to his father so no frivolous divorce) and he still is on “some women are bad, so avoid them, those are isolated cases”

    The latter Silents divorced in very large numbers, and even in their old age continue to do so at twice the rate the group born 20 years earlier did at the same age.

    As for telling your husband, my wife tried to explain certain things to me for years about how women really are. By blue pill standards I was pretty aware, but there was still very much that I missed. Once I found the manosphere what she had said and what I had observed all made so much sense. The one thing I still see in the manosphere though is a general inability to grasp just how cruel young women are to each other, and not just their “enemies”.

    I’m not sure if me telling a man would have any effect, for real. I’m experimenting with giving small bits of info to people to seem to have a bit of common sense and that are aware of “something being off in the world” this is one of the reasons I support the wiki I can sent them to a more or less “friendly” site so they can actually have some data to work with.

    It really is difficult to break through the frame with most people. One area of great opportunity though is if you know any teenage boys with a mother who is doing the “I’m not haaaapy” dance. These boys don’t want to see their lives turned upside down because their irrational mother got a bad feeling. If any of them come to you for advice, suggest that they tell their mother that she doesn’t want to be like all of the divorcees they know. He should think of the women they know who already did the EPL (relatives, friends, coworkers) and point out to his mother how all of them are the laughingstock of their circle for not being able to find a man as good as the husband they tossed away. Appealing to an unhaaaapy mother not to harm her kids does nothing, but appealing to her desire not to forever be seen as the fool she is being works wonders. I think it is especially powerful coming from a son because she knows he will always remember that she didn’t have a real reason to divorce. She can’t count on playing the sympathy card later and getting her son to fill in the support void she created when she tossed her perfectly good husband.

    I’m also dealing with cuckoldry on my novel and treating it as the crime it is I think fiction is powerful and so far passing a child as the kid of some man that is not really his, had been depicted as “positive” so I’m trying to show some things considered normal as bad for men and specially for children. So doing what I can and see what works or not.

    The facts are on our side, but what we are up against is a frame of denial. Fiction is a great way to break the frame.

  211. koevoet says:

    @God helps those who help themselves, etc.

    When Christ raised Lazarus He told the people to roll the stone away. Christ could have miracled the stone away. He could have told them to remove it by prayer. But he did not. He had them move it by their own power. Then He did the great miracle of raising a man from the dead.

    In our day to day lives we need to do as much as we can by ourselves. I trust God to feed me, but I have never looked outside to find manna laying on the lawn. I thank God that I have a decent job and get paid twice a month, then go buy food myself. Likewise with finding a wife. I have waited years to go into my room one day and find some chick fallen from heaven, waiting patiently, gift-wrapped on my bed with a cute little card on it saying ‘To: Koevoet, From: God”. To date, this has resulted as any rational person would expect it to. If I am going to find someone it will be because I make myself available, and am out looking on my own. Finding one of the right ones at one of the right times – I will leave that up to God. But I will be out looking for it when it happens.

  212. Freebird, know this…..leftism/liberalism greases skids for feminism.
    Today’s group of younger men MRA’s and some poseurs who assert blatantly left ideology are ideologically contradicting themselves (note I didnt say functionally as there is little to no conservatism in practice in government)

    Hollenhund says it well: “””The problem is that they’re easily recruited to support other, more convenient (so to speak), populist political goals that have greater allure. This increases political instability.”””

    The desire to socially agitate correlates to the degree of progressive ideology, in terms of fast thought motive and follow through. Agitating makes one feel the new millennium equivalent of “take it to the man”, which is a *cool feeling*. Picking up with the MRM because it has potential as a social agitation mechanism that is inclusive to the self proclaimed and proudly reclusive (even RINOs….Reclusive In Name Only) may seem reasonable in a lets go out and show’em sort of way, but its clearly not progressive to be MGTOW, its classic liberalism.

  213. Dalrock, that mom won’t switch gears to protect the kids is exactly right, you have a poster here on the Jeanine Turner thread who, like all churchian moms divorcing, said that God was gonna protect HER babies. (as if no others ever prayed that)
    But, the idea of some scorn replacing the fount of empathy she expects……BIG….HUGE

  214. van Rooinek says:

    P-ray@okrahead
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2168089/Women-cat-owners-likely-kill-higher-chance-infection-parasite-feline-faeces.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
    Heh heh. Sometimes problems solve themselves.

    This is part of the parasite’s reproductive strategy. As you may know, the toxoplasma parasite, when infects a rat, causes the rat’s behavior to change in suicidal ways — to be more specific, it loses its normal fear of the scent of cat urine, and instead becomes attracted to it. Hence, the infected rat gets eaten by a cat, and thus the parasite — which can only reproduce in the guts of of a cat — completes its lifecycle.

    Similarly, if a woman is infected with the parasite, she’s crazy enough to never marry, and much more likely to kill herself. Since she dies alone, there’s no husband to find her body, and her cats will consume her instead — and once again, the parasite completes its lifecycle in the body of the cats.

    Also… women infected with toxoplasma, are significantly more promiscuous; once again, this is the parasite’s strategy to make sure she never marries, dies alone, and gets eaten by her cats, so the parasite can finish its lifecycle.

  215. deti says:

    Anacaona:

    “So do you have any alternative for a red piller that does feels the calling to be a husband and father but he knows “the way of the world” is corrupted?”

    The only thing coming to mind now is “marriage of the heart”. The man and woman have all the appearances and accoutrements of marriage, but are not legally married. The state is not involved in their marriage at all. The man and woman live together, pool money and resources, have children together. She takes his last name; but has to do so through a legal name change instead of through legal marriage. The two partners might have a legal instrument that governs what happens if they split up.

    The advantages are :

    1. alimony is dealt with by contract, not by state law.
    2. The man can build favorable items into the contract, i.e. the woman forgoes alimony if they split up; all children she has will be paternity tested; the woman must contribute financially to the union, etc.
    3. Interpretation of the parties’ duties at “divorce” is simple contract law rather than existing equities at the time of divorce. Legal marriages are addressed in courts of equity, i.e. what is “fair” at the time of divorce. In a contract like this, “fairness” is not the issue; contract interpretation is; and contract issues are questions of law, not questions of “what is fair”.

    The only thing that such a contract can’t deal with is child support. A parent cannot contract away the child support obligation; parents have to support their children. So any man who becomes a father is still subject to a family court deciding his support obligation.

    Another thing is that it’s only a matter of time before states get wise to all this and start tossing out such contracts. I see two possible means:

    1. The contracts are “unconscionable” or fundamentally unfair because one party has or had a much better bargaining position or because the legal effect of the contract puts one party at extreme disadvantage.
    2. A “contract marriage” is really a legal marriage and thus I think courts will simply say they should be treated as such. Thus we could see a return to the old common law marriage doctrines. Interesting, since most states north of the Mason Dixon line stopped recognizing common law marriages in the 1960s and 70s.

  216. koevoet says:

    @ van Rooinek – Gold. Pure gold.

  217. van Rooinek says:

    koevet — the scary aspect is, I might actually be onto something… Think back in the Middle Ages when creepy women — “witches” — lived alone in the forests with their cats…. what happened when they died? Likely nobody found them for weeks or months… .their cats (black or otherwise) would feed on their flesh, and then wander away in search of a new human sucker, carrying the parasite with them. Could it be that there really was a selection pressure on toxoplasma, to influence female behavior this way?

    The best defense, of course, is a dog: truly man’s best friend for the last 30,000 years.

  218. @ vab Rooinek – “The best defense, of course, is a dog: truly man’s best friend for the last 30,000 years.” – so true. I remember once a great gal I was engaged to ask me to choose between Titan ( my collie) or her on house boundaries for him. I chose my dog much to her surprise.

    @koevoet – if you have scripture for God who helps those who help themselves. Again, it sounds good but not scriptural. As you mentioned “we need to do as much as we can by ourselves”
    Consider the following and draw your own conclusion:
    -Abraham walked with God
    -Enoch walked with God
    -David kept the Lord at his right hand
    -Seek first the Kingdom and His righteousness and all these things shall be added
    -Labor to enter into the rest of God – Heb 4:11 (btw this is a oxymoron)

    Shalom

  219. van Rooinek says:

    Must be prionic

    No, toxoplasma is a protozoan.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasmosis

  220. freebird says:

    @empathologicalism
    I agree with your 2nd above post wholeheartedly, except for the final statement:
    “but its clearly not progressive to be MGTOW, its classic liberalism.”
    Do not see how you arrived at that conclusion,perhaps you will expound a bit upon it.
    I will tell you this though:
    I’ve been up before the courts far too many times on false accusations and perceive no due process or presumption of innocence. I do not EVER want to be in that situation again,and activism could very well put me there.
    As John Wayne once said in a very old western:
    “I was in a stampede once,don’t want no more.”

  221. Anonymous Reader says:

    Deti, I believe that door #2 is the easiest and therefore most likely way for legislatures to deal with any contract-based marriages. Just declare them “marriage” and treat them as such. Whatever it takes to keep the divorce industry fed, and women “haaapy”.

  222. deti says:

    Anon Reader:

    Yes. I have a business acquaintance who is divorced from the mother of his three grown kids. He has a lady friend/”Longtime companion”. Though they are together frequently, he has insisted from the outset that they maintain separate residences and finances just for this very reason. On paper, he’s single, and has no financial entanglements with anyone. There’s no property to divide because he owns his stuff, and she owns her stuff.

  223. freebird says:

    @empathologicalism :
    As a pre-emptive attempt at rebuttal I stole another guys words from another topic and forum.
    “Progressives hate men; conservatives worship women. Same thing, really…”

    http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=103761

  224. freebird says:

    Ok, broken link on the quote.Did it wrong I guess.Anyhoo it was from the MGTWO forums,current topic=Theory on changes in Alimony/Child Support Laws

  225. koevoet says:

    @Michael Singer – Obviously I don’t have a specific Bible verse – my Church doesn’t recognize the 1st Epistle of Benjamin Franklin to be canonical…though I did bring up the raising of Lazarus. Why didn’t Christ roll the stone away from the tomb himself? Why did he have the onlookers do it physically? If this meant nothing, why did the Evangelists consider it important to write this down? In the end, I don’t need a specific verse to see that this is the logical way to live. I believe that Iconoclasm is heresy, but I don’t NEED God to draw me a picture. I will take what I can from the scripture and the writings of the Fathers.

    Also, it is just pure practicality. You can wish in one hand and defecate in the other. I have a good idea which one will fill up faster. Trust in God always, but work for what you need and God will help out when you are in over your head.

    @ van Rooinek – To quote Ian Malcolm – Life finds a way!

  226. TFH says:

    freebird,

    I went to the pro-male-anti-feminist link and read the comments as requested,as really did not see anything adversarial.

    Yeah, that was a post-mortem discussion of adverserial behavior that happened elsewhere. I can show you links to the actual dustups, when I have the time. But I would hate to give those fanatical non-entities more exposure.

    Now, as far as what you can do, there is plenty.
    My flyer campaign (URLs @ Urinals) is one, which is a no-cost, minimal-effort, anonymous way to reach the other 99% of men who are not on the Internet. This campaign scatters thousands of red pills across society.
    Paul Elam has various ways in which one can volunteer for activism too.
    Keyster has listed phone numbers of key Senators and Congressmen (in the US) who were debating the ridiculously misandric VAWA legislation. Calling those Senators to express opposition to the unfairness of VAWA is a way to go.
    A UK Pollitician, Dominic Raab, strongly opposes feminism with a full grasp of what it is. Writing letters of encouragement to him (even by those not from the UK) at least shows that he is appreciated, since a politician only has reason to support a cause if people back him for it.

    There are many low-cost, easy things one can do.

  227. “Progressives hate men; conservatives worship women. Same thing, really…”

    So, claiming no ideology is best, right? ATF(above the fray)?

  228. “but its clearly not progressive to be MGTOW, its classic liberalism.”
    ————————————————————-
    Libertarian, thats classic liberalism

  229. P Ray says:

    @deti
    On paper, he’s single, and has no financial entanglements with anyone. There’s no property to divide because he owns his stuff, and she owns her stuff.
    That’s an excellent arrangement. Why do women want to involve the government in their love?
    Unless they don’t love.
    As Katharine Hepburn said “Sometimes I wonder if men and women really suit each other. Perhaps they should live next door and just visit now and then.”

  230. No, toxoplasma is a protozoan.
    ————————————————
    Shit!
    I rather liked the imagery linkage to “mad cow”

  231. Anacaona says:

    The latter Silents divorced in very large numbers, and even in their old age continue to do so at twice the rate the group born 20 years earlier did at the same age.

    Interesting I assumed the trend started with the boomers. So far all her siblings (3) are still married to same men they started their family with.

    As for telling your husband, my wife tried to explain certain things to me for years about how women really are. By blue pill standards I was pretty aware, but there was still very much that I missed. Once I found the manosphere what she had said and what I had observed all made so much sense.

    This makes me feel a bit better, I though it was a function of me not being “smart enough” to explain. I still think he will have to find manosphere through a male friend for him to get it, I’m sure that once a couple of male friends get in contact with how things are for men really, he will be a lot more open to listen, (praying to God that is not going to be our son’s problems what will wake him to the reality of all of it) so far he is the type that dismiss anything with hateful language or/and with religious/conservatives goals and figures. He is a smart man he just needs his “Eureka” moment, all things come for those who wait.

    She can’t count on playing the sympathy card later and getting her son to fill in the support void she created when she tossed her perfectly good husband.

    Our close circle of friends is small and most of them are starting their families (oldest kid on the circle is 9) so I will have that in mind.

    The facts are on our side, but what we are up against is a frame of denial. Fiction is a great way to break the frame.

    Is fiction aimed at women (paranormal romance), I wouldn’t presume I can write for a male audience I also think there are more opportunities to break through the women that are skeptic about some issues on feminism and the young ones that are seeing their mothers “liberated” lives exploding on their faces again and…again I’m working with the things I know how to do, more or less let’s see how it works. Although I’m sure I’m going to get bashed mercilessly by the MRA’s probably because I didn’t did enough according to their standards and/or because I did too much and they are out to get them, oh well no one says life was going to be easy.
    Thanks for taking the time to answer me, much appreciated :)

  232. wudang says:

    Anacaona, that you want to write about cuckolding is awesome.

  233. van Rooinek, that was brilliantly inventive. But, as a biology lecturer of mine once said of another such idea, “hard to sustain”.

    (A lot of people get exposed to toxoplasma. I was tested once, when I did parasitology, and I had been.)

    Also, cats are fine pets, and a lot of old ladies have them because they are widows. Cats do not deserve to be associated simply with washed-up sluts. That is grossly unfair to cats.

  234. @ koevoet – To answer your question “Why didn’t Christ roll the stone away from the tomb himself? ”
    Probably for the same reason He didnt jump from the pinnacle in Matt 4:1-10, and didn’t ask His Father for 12 legions of angels while on a mock trial w/ Pilate in Matthew 26:53 “Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels”?
    Imo, what I get from the scriptures and getting to know Jesus – God is very much into deferred gratification (Psa84:11)

    There are many more scriptures in OT/NT that fit in context but this one should suffice as a answer to your question. Give John 5:19 a read and ask Jesus yourself (Btw, I”ll spare you the trouble of looking it up).

    John 5:19″I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.”

    Shalom

  235. JHSD says:

    Michael Singer – I don’t think any of the passages you mention tell us that we shouldn’t work. This belief was part of the Messalian heresy. “For idleness teacheth much evil” [Sirach 30:27].

    As for John 5:19, this highlights one of the problems with quoting verses out of context. Here are John 5:17-19: “But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hithero, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only had broken the Sabbath [telling the paralytic to "take up his bed and walk"], but said also that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father do; …”

    St. Theophylact explains in his commentary that this is to show that Christ is of the same essence as the Father and thus is like the Father in all respects. The importance of this verse is to dispel the babbling of the Arian heretics that Christ is a creation of the Father. I don’t think it has anything to do with not working. I think that when Christ says that working is less important than spiritual matters, as He says to the Jews who followed Him to the other side of the sea, seeking him to recreate the miracle of the loaves and the fish – in essence wanting Him to become a divine vending machine – or in his rebuke of Martha who desired her sister to work rather than listen to the word of God, He is telling us to concentrate on spiritual matter first, but never tells us not to try and take care of ourselves.

    I agree that we should always trust in God and put Him first in life, but I also find it foolish not to do what we can. Christ did not jump from the cliff to test God, and nor should we lay idly about.

  236. And why would we want to give feminists exactly what they want?

    By not doing anything, you’re giving feminists what they want, zero resistance to whatever they want to do. It’s a “strategy” of guaranteed failure. Doing something, even if the feminists want it so that they can crack down on men, has a probability of success that is greater than zero. Thus we should be doing something rather than nothing.

  237. @JHSD -” I don’t think any of the passages you mention tell us that we shouldn’t work”
    Uhmmmm…. No kidding. The question was asked “Why didn’t Christ roll the stone away from the tomb himself? ” Well, He told those there to roll the stone away. Obviously this direction came from the Father and this was the reason for the reference of John 5:19. Christ spoke, behaved, and did all the Father directed Him to. In doing so, He was perfected and learned obedience as written in Hebrews.

    If Christ wanted followers He wouldn’t have told them to eat His body and drink His blood (largest back door revival in history).
    The original context was “God helps those who help themselves” which is a unscriptural term and presumptuous ( Remember King Saul ????)

    The scriptures OT/NT clearly point out God helps those who obey Him – Micah 6:8 He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God. The scriptures tell us to do quite a bit of things – Col 3 is a gem as is present yourself as a living sacrifice and pray without ceasing.

    Btw, Christ is the only “begotten” Son of the Father / created “from” the Father of the Father (Col 1:15,Psalms 2:7, Acts 13:33, Hebrews 1:5, 5:5, Rev 22:13).

    Btw, If Christ would have jumped from the cliff or come down from the cross. It would have been presumptuous (arrogant) by showing He was the Messiah.
    As mentioned earlier, God is into deferred gratification. The cross had no power – God raised Him and He eventually ascended.
    Btw, take a look at Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence. This guy got it right.

  238. Höllenhund says:

    By not doing anything, you’re giving feminists what they want, zero resistance to whatever they want to do. It’s a “strategy” of guaranteed failure. Doing something, even if the feminists want it so that they can crack down on men, has a probability of success that is greater than zero.

    There’s only one thing feminists can do little or nothing against, and that is millions and millions of men making personal choices for self-preservation.

  239. Apollyon says:

    Never will I marry.

    To quote the great, late Patrice Oneal, “I’ll introduce that bitch as my girlfriend when I’m 72.”

  240. freebird says:

    @empathalogicalism
    Gosh I had hoped for a more comprehensive answer as to why MGTOW was ‘classic liberalism” rather than
    “Libertarian, thats classic liberalism”
    I gotta say,if freedom is so bad, I will just be “wrong then.”
    #TFH,you are correct sir,I am remiss in not doing much to oppose feminism,I suppose out of laziness.
    I really should motivate and contact those reps and get some URL’s out there.
    Altho,the hussies have gotten so brazen only a blind man would miss the over-reach.
    These younger men are finding their own path,the hookup culture has ruined any sense of commitment.
    Sex has become (more) of a commodity, something to be exchanged by strangers in parking lots.
    Oddly enough,perhaps that nasty gangsta rap music has raised awareness quicker than anything else,as the youth seek the lowest common denominator.
    But there is still the NAWALT,ther ever present spector of that ‘exception,’that suckers a man in,with no consideration for proper vetting.Altho there is no vetting out the 7 year itch.Or the 10 year vested divorce in some States.
    Whilst I should be doing activism,another part of me
    feels like watching a train wreck, I just want to leap out of the way to safety,except this time I’m not going in top look for survivors.

  241. freebird says:

    Oh yeah, gotta add:
    I do some ‘activism’ in my daily encounters with other men,often couching my words to make a single poignant
    point, anything overt raises the shields and gets me on the misogynist label.
    The most effective speaking point is to take back the lingo,refer to single mothers as unwed mothers,and out of wedlock children as their bastards.
    Also,with the old crowd,point out the gay-lesbian agenda from the top down.
    The biggest traction the feminist have gotten is by controlling the language,discourse,and lingo.
    I fight that daily by using the old language the old folks remember.
    It shocks them,puts them into cognitive dissonance.

  242. freebird, many Manosphere sites clearly use vulgar language about women to score political and cultural points. Heartiste in particular.

  243. freebird, I havent read enough of your comments to have a feel for you, hence I didn’t understand even what you asked and still don’t. I’m glad to respond with more than a silly definitional proclamation, but I need to understand, is the question seeking proof? Is it a rebuttal? A rebuke? A curiosity? What?
    Sex in parking lots here in the mid-south (U.S.) is impractical this time of year, too too hot

  244. koevoet says:

    @Michael Singer – “The question was asked “Why didn’t Christ roll the stone away from the tomb himself? ” Well, He told those there to roll the stone away. Obviously this direction came from the Father and this was the reason for the reference of John 5:19. Christ spoke, behaved, and did all the Father directed Him to. In doing so, He was perfected and learned obedience as written in Hebrews.”

    I think we are coming to the same conclusion but from different angles. I still believe that we have to do some of the work ourselves, hence, God helps those who help themselves. If we believe that every blessing comes from God, does it not stand to reason that if we work for money and use that money to buy food, we can consider both money and food to be a blessing from God?

    “Btw, Christ is the only “begotten” Son of the Father / created “from” the Father of the Father (Col 1:15,Psalms 2:7, Acts 13:33, Hebrews 1:5, 5:5, Rev 22:13). ”

    The Nicene Creed says very sepcifically – “Begotten, not made, of one essence with the Father”

  245. van Rooinek says:

    David Collard:…. cats are fine pets, and a lot of old ladies have them because they are widows. Cats do not deserve to be associated simply with washed-up sluts. That is grossly unfair to cats.

    True, plenty of people other than washed-up old sluts, have cats. But consider this:

    vR: As you may know, the toxoplasma parasite, when infects a rat, causes the rat’s behavior to change in suicidal ways — to be more specific, it loses its normal fear of the scent of cat urine, and instead becomes attracted to it.

    Ever been to a chronically single woman’s house (young or old), that had the aura of cat urine, and wondered how she could tolerate it? Methinks that that the parasite changes the woman’s brain chemistry in the same way as it does the rat’s. Then the question is, why don’t toxoplasma-positive MEN get drawn to cat urine? Or… perhaps they do… maybe those guys are the ones who hookup with the cat girls. And since you are tox-positive, perhaps you don’t mind the scent?

    Here’s another hypothesis maybe worth testing: the domestication of cats, in ancient times, perhaps was facilitated by toxoplasma – because, in its absence humans would have ejected cats from their dwellings due to the urine stench. This was obviously an evolutionary success story for toxoplasma, if true. By making cat odor less offensive to humans, a relatively rare wild species got spread worldwide and became one of the most common pets on earth… and the parasite has far more hosts.

  246. “da professional womenz ode”

    alpha fucks and beta bucks
    dat is how we roll
    da butthexting cockass we fucks and sucks
    and in our anuthes it doth deosul
    alpha fucks and beta bucks
    it is da way of da fed
    to transfer assetss to dose who butthext
    cuckold dose who pay for our bread
    beta bucks and alpha fucks
    it’s what day teach us we;’re entitled too
    da assetts from betas we plucks
    after da alphas desol us through our hole for poo
    lzozozlzzolzlzlzlz
    cuckold da betas cockhold da alphas
    datsz what day taught us in mba grad school
    as da feiisnsits see no truth nor justice in their laws
    and say da great books for menz was all fools.
    yes, yes, i did very good on my gmats
    dey bernenakifed my soul away, left me with cats

    zlzlzzozozozo

  247. lzoozzolozozz

    time 2 take da red pillz lzozlzozolozozoz instead of your stae-mandated ritalin dat makes you pay attention 2 your feminsistsa fprofessorz zlozlzzo!!!!
    z
    zlzozozozozlzozoz
    zlzozozl

    i can show you the way, neo, but you will have to walk it zlozlzlzozzlozlzlzo

    ozlzlz the more you read me and roissy the mroe your life will improve as you come to see the fiat butthex matrix for what it is — you will see the green streams of fiat data (dripping with buttdouche fresh off the butthex presses) like the matrix but with a subltle difference as some of you wieinsteinas have already seen for urself lzozzll

    at the ned of the matrix neo saw it as

    1010101011110100101
    1101001010100101010
    1101010101011101001
    0101010000010101111
    0100101111111101010
    1101010101001001001
    1101001010101001010
    1101001010100001010
    0100101010010101010

    and when you have walked the path you too will see the butthexing matrix for what it is and how the fed funded the desouling of womenz with massive amounts of douchcock frrom an early age in all tehir orfices and are acting through the soulles temptresses to seize your assetts now when a girl says, “what i really really want is a nice guy, i’m tired of the asswholes (lozlzl who got her younger hotter tighter)” instead of hearing what she says and then trying to be a nice guy you will hear the truth behind the butthexing matrix’s facade lzozlzl:

    10101010010110101010101010
    10101010101010101010010110
    101010z01010z0101l01zzlzozll1
    1o1o1o1o1ozozozo1o1o101011
    1o1o1o1oozozzozozozozo01011
    lozlzlzozlzozlozzlzozlzozlzozzoz1
    1010i1o1o1want1010a01010001
    douchebag10to butthex me0101
    010and i want you 2 buy me100
    01meals and a ring while i01011
    0101give by butt & vagina01010
    010away for free to butthexers1
    100who tape it scretely lzozl100
    zlzozllzlzlzozlzozzloozzllz and101
    1010make my anus sore for010
    1010days010101 101010101011
    1010lolsolsoslslollzzlozlzzozlz010
    0101pay 4 my meals0101001010
    101010and1010maybe1010u1010
    1001can1010touch1010my10dry
    101001dried1010up110pussy100
    101stds stds stds0101010101010
    10101buy me 1010a ring1010101
    1010for100the1010pussy1010i100
    0101gave1010away1010for0101
    1010free1010when1010it0was10
    100younger1010hotter0110lozlz
    lolzlztighter1010and010propose01
    1010so1001i1010can0110rape10
    1010your101010anus1010in0101
    1010divorce01010court1010and01
    10transfer010your0101assets1001
    1010to1010bernanke1001and1010
    1010the1010fiat1010buttheex1010
    1001matrix01010lozlzlzlzlzlzzozllzzl
    omglzozlzlzllzlzlzzzlzllzlzlzlzlzlzllzlzllz

    10lzozllzlz0zzllllzllzllzlzz1ozozlzlzl0
    010111010101010101101010101

    the sublime act of butthex is a beuatiful metaphor for what the fed does to a currency and a country, which is why the neocon weekly standard celebrates butthexers–es[pecially those who taope it without the girkl's conthent and profit off the act. lzozlzlzlzl!

    [on the war that devastated the Real World]
    Morpheus: We don’t know who butthexed first, us or them. But we do know it was them that videotaped it without our consent while scorching the sky wioth a long trail of butthex lies. At the time, they were dependent on butthex power. It was believed they would be unable to survive without an energy source as abundant as the common man’s collective anushole. lozzllzlzlzzl

    Trinity: I know why you’re here, Neo. I know what you’ve been doing… why you hardly sleep, why you live alone, and why night after night, you sit by your computer reading roissy & GBFM. You’re looking for him. I know because I was once looking for the same thing. And when he found me, he told me I wasn’t really looking for him. I was looking for an answer. It’s the question that drives us, Neo. It’s the question that brought you here. You know the question, just as I did.
    Neo: What is the butthex fiat Mathrix?
    Trinity: The answer is out there, Neo, and it’s looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to.

    [Neocon sees a black cat walk by them, and then a similar black cat walk by them just like the first one]
    Neocon: Whoa. Déjà vu.
    [Everyone freezes right in their tracks]
    Trinity: What did you just say?
    Neocon: Nothing. Just had a little déjà vu.
    Trinity: What did you see?
    Cypher: What happened?
    Neocon: A black cat went past us, and then another that looked just like it.
    Trinity: How much like it? Was it the same cat?
    Neocon: It might have been. I’m not sure.
    Morpheus: Switch! Apoc!
    Neocon: What is it?
    Trinity: A déjà vu is usually a glitch in the butthexMatrix. It happens when they change something. Now that I am an aging women in the butthex matrix with her eggs and gina drying up having given the best years of her anus to drunk alphas during her college desouling years via massively multiplayer asscockig in the butt sessions and getting her fiat mba (masters of butthexing in da Anus) and blowing upper level mangement lzozllz, the butthexmatrix is now delivering my cats. Two this morning and now two more. yaya! lozlzl

    lozlzlzlzlzl

    Morpheus: The Fiat lozllolozllzzl butthex Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. lzozozozozl! But when you’re inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, bloggers, teachers, betas, lawyers, herbs, carpenters, and neocon womenz writing for the weekly standard, repeating the fiat lies of secretive tapers of butthex without teh girls conthent lzozlzlzlzl. The very minds and anusholes of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that butthex system and that makes them our anus’s lozlzlzozzozozl enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unbuttplugged. And many of them are so inured to butthex, so hopelessly dependent on the system of secretive tapings of butthex without tehir conthent, that they will fight to protect it and reapet the lies of secretive tapers of butthex in teh pages of the weekly standard even though they seem to be nice neocon ladies.
    [Neo's eyes suddenly wander towards a woman in a red dress]
    Morpheus: Were you listening to me, Neo? Or were you looking at the woman in the red dress (woman as temptress in the heor’s journey myth) who was desouled via copious fiat-funded butthex from butthexers celerbated in teh pages of the weekly standard?
    Neo: I was…
    Morpheus: [gestures with one hand] Look again.
    [the desouled, massively-butthexed woman in the red dress is now a bestselling new york times author, pointing a cock at Neo's ass; Neo ducks]
    Morpheus: Freeze it.
    [Everybody and everything besides Neo and Morpheus freezes in time]
    Neo: This… this isn’t the butthex Matrix?
    Morpheus: No. It is another training program designed to teach you one thing: if you are not one of us lozlzlzlzlers, you are one of them butthexers.

    lozlzlzl

    i wanna start lzozlzlzl media where we have a character based on roissy who sees green streams of streaming data every time a bernankified chick opens her moutrh and throughout every episode all the herbs and betas pay for the meals of the chix roissy butthexes in the end due to his supreme knowelge of being THE ONE lzozlzlzllzzl

    i would be more like one of those minor characters along for the ride in the mother ship stanidng off to the side going lzozlzz zlzozlzozlzozlz zlzozllzozlzlzlz and don’t gte me worng i would score with all the hotties but like roissy woudl get first pick for his lead dick and i’d get the next two as that’s only fair lzozlzlzlzllzlzllzl

  248. lozozzozlzozlz

    da federal reserve and da womenz are similar beast

    lzozozzz

    dey both bail out assfucking assfuckers with beta bucks zlozzoozzlzl

    da fed says it is there to prevent inflation
    it creates it zlozozzozoz
    da womenz say day are der waiting for a good man
    day offer der buttonholes to secretive tapesers of butthex like tucker max whys with goldman sax lzozlzozoz’

    both the fed and womenz encourage assholery and fund and finance assholery and support assholery with their buttonholes, ginaholes, and fiat dollars

    den, both da fed and womenz say, “wo unto us! there is too much corruption in da world!” and day legislate against good men and create feminist studies programs to 1) teach them how to get buttcocked by bucckiiking buttcockers who oft tape it secretly like tucker max hryeme with goldman sax and 2) then go forth and buttock der men in divorce court, in child support, in sexual harrraassment lawssusitsss zlzozozl

    the fed funded the womenz womemeovement and da ebernankifictaion of womenz thand deosuling of womenz thought their anuthholes to con convert womenz into mechanisms means of wleathtranferz zlzozlzlzl

    HARVARD UNIVERSITY JUST INTRODUCED A NEW COURSE!!

    Upper-Level Feminist Business 401: During the semester we will learn how to optimize Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks, as we are buttcoked by “alphas” and then go forth into the corporate-state to buttcock betas out of their assettsts (buttcocking their asstettss so to speak lzozlzoz) buttcoki dem outta der assettts in divorce curt, entitle progapms, corproate sexual harrassment suits, and guilting betas and gelding them with the “pay gap” myth. We will transfer teh assetts to the central banks and bernankifiers for teh centyral banks can only create debt-based fiat dollarz which are worth less than nothing, and thus need d awomenz movement to go forth and buttcock and guilt betas into working working working for a hope to lick our std-addled, strecthed-out bungholes lzozlzololzozo. We will examine why betas do not like this setup, and how we can shame them into marriage and slaving away in corproate jobs while we cock hold the alphas and cukhold da betas zlzololzlzlozozololzlzolz. homework will consist of getting buttcocked by a buttccker while mainitaing a roster of at least 20 beta oribters to reguallry buy one meals so that they will be well fed for the buttcocking later that evening. this will prepare tda womenz for bigger game, whnce they get betas to buy them homes and cars, and then dun future buttcockings with aplphas via alimony and child support lzzllzzlzozozozozo. sample exam questions will be, “what does tucker butthexter max wheym with? klzozolzolzolzo

  249. HOW DA FED HIDES INFLATION:

    da fed hides inflation in many, many ways

    frist of all, da government always lies about the true inflation lozozozl but you see it at the gas pump as day pump and dump your future wife in college deosuling and ebenrnkaifiying her

    A LOT OF INFLATION is hidden in your future wife’s buttonhole lzozlzoz

    with all da extra dolzlrz zlzozo day print dollars and fund feminism and sassockcing lessons as socking seminars assockcing instructions on da college campus where day can butthext and deosul your future wife and make her loyal first and foremost to da bottom line lzozozl da BOTTOM line lzozozoz da BOTTOM UTTHOLE line lzozozlzl programming her to seize your assets to tempt you into marriage, seize your assets and spy on you, and then forward all your emails to da FED alongside all of your assettsts ASS tests ASSsetts zlzozzzlz BOOTOTOM LINE BOTTOM LINE ASSests zlzozozllzozoz

    once upon a time a man couple support a family and a wife and kids and rise them proper moral decent lzozllzoz

    but now, due to da FED’s massive inflation which they hide in your wife’s buttonhole during secretive tucker max rheyme with godlmans sax secretly taped buttehxting sessions, she will be more loyal to da shopping channels and her sista’s and the CIA’s cosmo magazine zlozozzllzzol and unloyal not loyal to family, god , man, religion, and thus she will insatiate initiate over 80% of divorce as the FED whispers to her that she will get her uhusdbansds assetsts to fund future as socking as socking buttonhole cockas sessions that they addickecter adduced adDICKted her to in college lzoolzlzozo

    and da fed gets a gut

    as they must convert

    worthless less than zero fiat debt

    into physical assetttss

    by seizing property and lifer and liberty form da betas

    operating through their wive’s buttholios

    where they dhid allda inflation zlozozozlz

    DANTE and MILTON noted the same thing, so if you do not believe da GBFM, take it up with DANTE and MILTON asslcocen zlzzzl assclowns zlzozlzlzo

  250. wonce upon a time mens wents 2 church 2 find a good wownenez lzozlzlzloz to be a wife and mother and faithful honor cherish lzozlzzozlolzozlz

    today woemnz go 2 churrhc 2 find a beta or gammamale to pay for their three children forrm three fatehrs who pumped dand dudmped theier zazzez afetr asszzcockcing them lzozlzlzlzo

  251. deti says:

    GBFM, the court jester of the Manosphere, has finally graced Dalrock’s with his presence.

  252. Dalrockas rhymes with ostas cockas just like tucker max rhymes iwth goldman sax lzlzzlzlzzlzzlz butthext xhxgxyxlxjkhxjglkxlxlxolx

  253. freebird says:

    @empathologicalism
    My question is an honest curiosity.
    TO myself, I see MGTOW as a survival mechanism,and not an act of libertarianism.
    It a simple desire and way of life to free of the misandrist court system,I certainly do not advocate for more “freedom” for women to misuse unjust laws.
    But I do see where you may be coming from If I may be so bold to put words in your mouth:
    It seems it is your perception that by ghosting I and NOT fighting feminism of actively advocating for mens rights that I am somehow allowing more leverage to the women.
    But it is my perception this is not the case,that my acts of omission are powerful enough resistance to this “libertarianism” w/o subjecting myself to the biased court system.
    In short, my question is:
    How does ghosting out of preservation constitute ‘typical libertarianism’for anyone except myself,and that only being out of self preservation and NOT a political act at all?
    Definitely not asking to be adversarial,honestly wanting to know your thoughts that lead to the conclusion.

  254. freebird says:

    @deti
    Yep,sad ain’t it?
    There is such a thing as decent enough writing that makes a point w/o having professional writing skills,as I would like to believe is evidenced by my posts even with the multiples of syntax errors,missing words and misspellings.
    At least I’m putting forth an honest effort.

  255. Pingback: Linkage Is Good For You, 7-8-12 | Society of Amateur Gentlemen

  256. Pingback: Beauty taming the savage beast. | Dalrock

  257. Pingback: Connecting the pathological fear of husbands having power with the peter pan manboy syndrome. | Dalrock

  258. Pingback: How the destruction of marriage is strangling the feminist welfare state. | Dalrock

  259. Jolly Rauncher says:

    @gunner451,

    It is true, that it is better to marry than fall into sexual sin. However, how can a man marry when marriage itself has ceased to exist? It is impossible to squeeze blood out of a rock, and it is impossible for Biblical marriage to exist in an anti-Biblical legal framework!

  260. Pingback: It’s all Related « Free Northerner

  261. @Jolly Rancher ” it is impossible for Biblical marriage to exist in an anti-Biblical legal framework!”

    Actually it can.
    And has done quite well for centuries. The problem is not the legal framework- the problem is that Christian teaching has gotten so far off base and away from the original Jewish/Hebrew roots, the commandments of the apostles, and false teaching that have twisted Paul’s writings.
    People are responsible for their actions. Whether there is a legal system or not. This is been seen throughout history.

    G_DS favor/grace of the new covenant is not a substitute for moral conduct/character.
    It wasn’t under the old and it isn’t under the new. While forgiveness is a component of the new covenant, so is the blood atonement overcoming the removal of guilt and the actual removal of sin.

    The problem is the people not the legal system. Fix the people in the legal system will be corrected.
    BTW, this is G_D’S plan and the coming of His Kingdom. He is coming back with rulers and judges to set things in order. But in order to do that He has to have people who are willing to deny themselves, pick up your cross, and follow Jesus while saying not my will but Yours be done (this is the first resurrection and the one that Paul was straining to attain

    Current evangelical teaching has made the current new covenant just forgiveness alone and as a result it removes the consequences. The result is divorce, disease, war, obesity/famine, murder (sin).
    And because the churches lost its moral light the secular society goes along with it.
    One reaps exactly what they sow- nothing will ever change that.

    What we’re witnessing is results of the apostasy & false teaching mentioned in the scriptures.

    Shalom

  262. Pingback: In Search of the Peter Pan Manboy. | Dalrock

  263. MPK says:

    I see a lot of comments talking about “Game” but none which actually say what it is. ‘Any help?

  264. Pingback: Warren Buffett on Women | Patriactionary

  265. Pingback: The decline of marriage | Observing the Decline

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s