So Your Christian Wife Cheated on You

The other day I mentioned Christian Men’s Defense Network.  Given the familiar names in the discussion there and the nearly 700 clicks to his site in the stats since then I know that many of you have already gone over there to see what he is building.  If you are interested in a thoroughly Christian take on the issues we discuss here, this new blog is a must read.  He has only been blogging for a week now but in that short time he has already easily demonstrated his talent.  I’ve added him to the blogroll.

He has a powerful three part series (part 1, part 2, part 3) aimed at helping Christian men who were cheated on by their wives.  In part one he explains why he created it:

Now, let me explain things to you like they are.  When it happened to me, there was almost nothing out there to give me Christian guidance on what to do about it.  Almost nothing.  And what was there, was, I discovered in retrospect, based on a false understanding of psychology and, even worse, a false understanding of Biblical marriage and sexuality.

Almost all the stuff I found was about a guy cheating, not the woman cheating.  This is despite the fact that female marital infidelity is a growing trend within the Christian community, one that the church refuses to deal with and likes to paper over.  In our society, women are almost as likely to cheat on their spouses as men, but there’s next to nothing out there to help a Christian man deal with that.

Which is why I wrote this.  It’s a little something to guide you through the process.  It may not be perfect, but it’s a heck of a lot more than you’ll get from Focus on the Family or other “Christian” institutions, many of whom have given themselves over to latent Christian feminism or faulty unbiblical views of marriage.  So calm down and pay attention.  Again, God has your back.  Trust me.  He had mine, even though it took me a long time to realize that.

Then he frames the issue:

The Devil is trying to get at you, to weaken your resolve to abide in quiet faith to your Lord and King.  But he isn’t trying to get at your marriage.  He already got at your marriage when he got at your wife.  There’s nothing you can do about that now.  You are his next target.  It might be possible for your marriage to continue, but realize the Devil already got it, and you’re now starting over.

Towards the end of the first part he prescribes a daily dose of the three P’s:  Psalms, Proverbs, and Paul, and he explains why he recommends each one.  Here is why he advises reading Proverbs:

Proverbs because there Solomon talks of the importance of wisdom.  You will need wisdom in your life more now than you ever have before.  Solomon also talks a great deal about how to avoid the wiles of a sexually immoral woman.  Your wife, as hard as it is to admit, is such a woman, and her wiles can be powerful, tearing you and your family down to please her sinful passions.  “For a prostitute’s fee is only a loaf of bread, but an adulteress goes after a precious life” (Prov. 6:26).  You need wisdom.

In part two, Shame Control, he addresses anger and the very common tendency of cheating wives and Christians in general to blame the husband when a wife cheats:

It’s okay to be angry.  Christians today will tell you anger is never justified.  And yet they claim to serve a Lord who actually chased people out of the Temple with a whip like a mad man.   Ignore all that.  Be angry, but do not sin.

Next, you need to be clear that this is not  your fault.  Shame will be a constant threat to you.  And you must not let the Devil shame you.  Cling to God and resist the Devil.

Your wife especially will try to shame you.  She will try to tell you she did this because she was “unhaaaaapy,” because you don’t listen to her, because you don’t communicate well, because you don’t keep the house clean (my ex-wife tried all of these).  That’s baloney.

Christians should consult the Bible, not the movie Fireproof for their understanding of how to view unfaithful wives:

No, the Bible gives us only one reason that she cheated on you:  Lust.  Rank, disgusting, vile, perverted lust.  Women lust too, even though, again, a lot of Christian pastors don’t ever mention that.  They only like to talk about guys who look at porn, never about women who commit lust that leads to infidelity.

In part 3 Pitfalls he reinforces the importance of staying strong and not giving into the frame of blame shifting:

The first pitfall to avoid is to not fall for any blame-shifting tricks your wife might throw at you. If your experience is true to a common pattern (one I also experienced), she’s been telling you for weeks or months that she is “unhaaaaapy” in the marriage, and that you need to change. She might even have threatened divorce if you didn’t change.

This is very common. In fact, you might even be in marriage therapy right now to deal with your alleged shortcomings. This is a major pitfall you need to identify and avoid: She isn’t telling you all this stuff because you are really a bad husband. She isn’t going to therapy with you because you need to change for the sake of the marriage. She isn’t threatening divorce because she’s unhaaaapy.

Rather, she’s doing all of these things because she needs you to take the blame for her sin. If you google “christian wife cheated” or something similar, you will find multiple stories where the guy is going to therapy with his wife and then finds out she was cheating. Or you’ll find stories about how she was complaining about the marriage, and then he found out she was unfaithful.

He explains why this is crucial first from a Christian point of view, pointing out something which is almost always overlooked:

Don’t do it. She has to admit that the current crisis in the marriage was caused by her own lack of self-control, not by you being a bad husband. She must admit this, both for her own spiritual health, and because your marriage cannot survive unless she does. Repentance results in healing. Unrepentance results in self-destruction.

Then he explains it from a game point of view:

Furthermore, if you admit to being the chief problem, she will lose all respect for you. I know, this sounds really bizarre, but it’s how female psychology works. She needs a man who is strong and tough, who can stand up to threats and remain stable. She needs a man who can stand up even to her, because if her man cannot stand up to a woman who is clearly in the wrong, how could she trust him to stand up to bigger threats?

He follows this up with some very insightful advice:

Second, if you are currently seeing a marriage therapist, stop. This is the opposite advice of what most Christians will give you. But if your wife brought you to the counselor under false pretenses, then continuing the counseling relationship is buying in to your wife’s scheme.

He advises that the husband reset the frame, and if the husband feels that counseling is still in order he gives advice on how the husband can improve the odds of finding one who will deal with the issue fairly.

He also deftly covers the topics of divorce, forgiveness, and reconciliation:

So do not seek any form of revenge. Divorce isn’t revenge, and if you decide to pursue divorce for the purpose of revenge, you’re making a big mistake. Now, not all Christians agree on when–if ever–divorce is permissible. As a Protestant, I hold to the usual Protestant interpretation that it is only permissible in case of adultery (with the possible exception of physical abuse creating a “divorce for personal safety, but no remarriage” situation). Adultery is the very case you’re in right now.

But my point is, regardless of your personal beliefs about divorce, when you forgive your wife, it doesn’t mean you’ve reconciled the marriage. Forgiveness is a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition for reconciliation.

I’ve quoted this fairly heavily, because it is easier to show you how good this series is than try to explain it.  Still, this is just a teaser.  Read the full series on his site (part 1, part 2, part 3), and bookmark it so you can share it with a Christian man in need.

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61 Responses to So Your Christian Wife Cheated on You

  1. wssp says:

    Doesn’t sound strange to me, that a woman would react negatively if her husband blamed himself for her cheating. That’s not just female psychology, but crumpling for someone’s else’s wrongs, being a pushover; no one respects those. And if her husband offers her no reason to improve, nothing to improve for, the marriage loses all footing.

    “divorce for personal safety, but no remarriage” situation”

    Disagree. If he’s punching her in the mouth, or she’s running at him with sharp implements, I’d say it’s just as messed up and twisted as adultery.

  2. Aurini says:

    This is good advice for anybody who’s a part of Christendom (I reject the term ‘Western Civilization’); our moral foundation is in Christianity – see Lord of the Rings for a particularly good example of that – and as much as Atheistkult tries to reject this with their port-historicism, at our base we still build off of these concepts.

  3. Red says:

    Wouldn’t step one be taking her down to the chuch and having her denounced as an adulturer and tossed out of the church? I mean that’s the bibical thing to do.

  4. bskillet81 says:

    Actually, step one is to confront her yourself. Then, if she fails to repent, take two or three mature Christians from the church with you to confront her again. If she still fails to repent, then take her in front of the whole church. If she still fails to repent, the whole church turns her away (Matt. 18:15-17). This is almost never done in practice.

  5. bskillet81 says:

    @wssp

    Disagree. If he’s punching her in the mouth, or she’s running at him with sharp implements, I’d say it’s just as messed up and twisted as adultery.

    I agree it is messed up. But the question isn’t which is more messed up, but the kind of “messed-up” it is. The Bible does not condone remarriage in the case of spousal abuse. It isn’t that the Bible sees marriage as the place for sex (as Christians sometimes inaccurately state), but that the Bible sees the primary purpose of marriage to be sexual. Adultery destroys this purpose by violating the sexual basis of marriage. Physical abuse, though heinous, does not.

  6. Joe Sheehy says:

    “In our society, women are almost as likely to cheat on their spouses as men, but there’s next to nothing out there to help a Christian man deal with that.”

    You can read the Summa Theologica or historical literature to understand

    “It happens in two ways that a husband kills his wife. First, by a civil judgment; and thus there is no doubt that a husband, moved by zeal for justice and not by vindictive anger or hatred can, without sin, bring a criminal accusation of adultery upon his wife before a secular court, and demand that she receive capital punishment as appointed by the law; just as it is lawful to accuse a person of murder or any other crime. Such an accusation however cannot be made in an ecclesiastical court, because, as stated in the text (Sent. iv, D, 37), the Church does not wield a material sword. Secondly, a husband can kill his wife himself without her being convicted in court, and thus to kill her outside of the act of adultery is not lawful, neither according to civil law nor according to the law of conscience, whatever evidence he may have of her adultery. The civil law however considers it, as though it were lawful, that he should kill her in the very act, not by commanding him to do so, but by not inflicting on him the punishment for murder, on account of the very great provocation which the husband receives by such a deed to kill his wife. But the Church is not bound in this matter by human laws, neither does she acquit him of the debt of eternal punishment, nor of such punishment as may be awarded him by an ecclesiastical tribunal for the reason that he is quit of any punishment to be inflicted by a secular court. Therefore in no case is it lawful for a husband to kill his wife on his own authority.”

  7. P Ray says:

    @wssp/Jennifer(?)
    “If he’s punching her in the mouth, or she’s running at him with sharp implements,”
    Just one problem there.
    She hasn’t actually made contact with him.
    Knowing the anti-male bias, where a woman citing “I’m scared of him” has a slew of government aid at her disposal to dispose of the husband,
    I’m not sure that a guy with no marks on him (she hasn’t made contact, as she is “running at him with sharp implements,”)
    When was the last time you heard a man cite “I’m afraid of her”, with no physical marks on him, that drove out a disturbed and destructive wife?

  8. Joe Sheehy says:

    Very important to understand that the “blame shifting” adulterous wives, the women and “white knights” who support them are attacking a wronged man’s reputation and good name. Giving into it is an act of self-degradation on the part of the husband. They try to trick men into it, because of their malice.

    “Reply to Objection 1. A husband sins if through vindictive anger he puts away his wife who has committed fornication, but he does not sin if he does so in order to avoid losing his good name, lest he seem to share in her guilt, or in order to correct his wife’s sin, or in order to avoid the uncertainty of her offspring.”

    http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5062.htm

  9. Red says:

    “Actually, step one is to confront her yourself. Then, if she fails to repent, take two or three mature Christians from the church with you to confront her again. If she still fails to repent, then take her in front of the whole church. If she still fails to repent, the whole church turns her away (Matt. 18:15-17). This is almost never done in practice.”

    I believe that advice would be applicable to male and unmarried female members of the church. Females and children are directly under the authority of the husband. Remember that everything in the new testament days had the standard hierarchy of God->Church->Husband/Father->Wife->Children. A women who commits adultery would be should be held accountible directly by her husband and no others.

  10. Matthew says:

    wssp does sound like Jennifer.

  11. Jennifer says:

    I never denied my name, Matthew, but sometimes my account replaces the name and I don’t always care to correct it.

    “Just one problem there.
    She hasn’t actually made contact with him.”

    Good point, but I was actually assuming if she did; I saw a film once where the wife went at her husband and slashed the backs of his legs. It wasn’t the first time she attacked him without threatening his life. Abuse is a terrible violation of marriage, and one man explained that he saw abuse as a kind of abandonment, in which wives were encouraged Biblically to move on. I went over the Scriptures once and came to the conclusion that, in many cases, it’s probably assumed that the people receiving instruction for marriage are Christians and have ready help; in Biblical times, a man could probably be executed for physical abuse, and possibly a woman. But a couple in our times, with no ready and legal church assistance? Of course, if a spouse is physically abuse, there’s not a bad chance that they’re unfaithful too anyway.

  12. Jennifer says:

    Wives were encouraged to move on after abandonment, I mean.

  13. Bwana Simba says:

    @Red said:

    “Wouldn’t step one be taking her down to the chuch and having her denounced as an adulturer and tossed out of the church? I mean that’s the bibical thing to do.”

    I agree with this man. And while you are at it, this humiliates her in public, destroying her social status.

    Of course there is another, better option: don’t get married. Ever. The only men who don’t seem to get divorced nowadays (or cheated on, cuckolded, abused, etc.) are men who legitimately slap their wives around.

  14. Anonymous says:

    Me Ex did all the same and she’s Jewish… she keeps saying she did this for me to be happy but somehow its all my fault for ruining our marriage (and gets angry when I just shrug and tell her she’s full of sh*t)

  15. Jennifer says:

    Females, Red? lol

  16. Joe Sheehy says:

    “in Biblical times, a man could probably be executed for physical abuse, and possibly a woman.”

    Do you have even the slightest evidence for that? Why is it that feminist “Christian” women make things
    up and expect it to be taken seriously without even the slightest backing?

    This is why no one should seriously believe Tradcons are interested in a real criminalization of abortion. The vast majority would have a man imprisoned for striking his wife, but would not imprison a woman for having an abortion. The laws against abortion were already effectively nullified long before their overthrow because society had decided that women were not to be punished for crimes.

    Here’s what law were long ago in England:

    “Under the older English law, when the wife was “sous la verge de son marrye” (the canon law sub virga viri [under the rod of the man/husband ] )”

    Under 19th Century feminism, those laws were changed:

    “The most elaborate cruelty in the way of insolence and insult is unpunishable by the law when committed by the wife. The husband remains bound to support his torturer, who may publicly waylay and insult him, harass him at his work, procure his dismissal, libel him by postcards sent to his workshop, or to his club. If he he a rich man, he can get some tardy redress in the way of palliation; but he remains liable to divorce and expropriation at his wife’s behest. The rod, the cucking stool, [1] the indictment as a scold at the assizes were the methods adopted by the Law of England and sanctioned by the Canon Law, until the present century, to repress such outrages. Now the feminine noblesse can torture their slaves with impunity. If the husband retaliates, the magistrate’s order promptly consigns him to gaol and the prisoners’ lash. [ 1 Cucking stool: "An instrument of punishment no longer in use, consisting of a chair in which the offender was tied and exposed to public derision or ducked in water." American Heritage Dictionary. ]”

    http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Legal_Subjection_of_Men

  17. greyghost says:

    Dalrock you have done well. Now there are two. There are good solid men out there that have a good idea that something is wrong. Dalrock you stayed the course and one of those men joined with you. Like a broken down car in traffic, if the driver opens the door and starts pushing it out of traffic others will stop and help push. The same drivers will look with discuss and scorn if he just sits there with the flashers on.

  18. greyghost says:

    One day a woman like Jennifer will not speak as she does today. One day even Jennifer herself will not say or believe what she is saying today because it will not be in her interest.

  19. pukeko60 says:

    The big problem is that the US laws are not consistent with Christian teaching. (We can argue later what is correct: but if you read the old formulations it is fairly clear that divorce was not to occur or was to be rare). Neither are the laws of most Western countries: all have no-fault divorce laws.

    Many people have forgotten that many things that are legal are immoral. The government running a numbers game and raking off the profits for its favourite causes (it is called Lotto in most places) is legal. So is prostitution where I live. But those acts are not moral… (the former because you entice the very poor into playing the game, the latter should be obvious).

    DIvorce is legal. Adultery is legal. Neither are moral.

    Now, in a divorce it is best for someone else to talk to the spouse. Not the husband. Particularly not with the violence against women laws. Let the eldership interview both, state the facts before the congregation, and beg God for mercy that this happened.

    But not… in silence… collude with the ongoing destructin of families, of children, and of men and women.

  20. UK Fred says:

    @ P Ray

    “… Knowing the anti-male bias..”

    Indeed. I have one friend who had to go to A&E at hospital to get his face stiched when his XW ‘glassed’ him before the police would take his reports of domestic violence seriously. Yet the statistics say that around 40% of domestic violence victims are male.

    In another (non-Christian) case, a wife was playing around on her second husband and they were arguing, when her sixteen year old son (by first husband) head butted husband and split open his nose, but son claimed self defence, with mother’s backing. Husband spent the night in the cells. I overheard youngster bragging to his friends “I nutted X and he got a night in the cells; I got off scot free.”

    Not only do we have an uphill fight with female blame shifting in cases of adultery, but we also have an uphill fight throughout the West with the anti-male bias of many laws which basically say “Believe the woman unless the man can show beyond all reasonable doubt that she is lying, and even then do nothing to the woman.”

    @Red

    “Wouldn’t step one be taking her down to the church and having her denounced as an adulterer…”

    I would expect that a Christian man would initially try to find out what had been happening with his wife first, and gather some evidence, so that he could go forward with steps two and three. But the whole purpose of this process is not to destroy someone’s reputation but to restore fellowship, by obtaining recognition on the part of the sinner that they have sinned and then repentance for that sin / those sins, before reconciliation between the sinner and the victim of the sin, whether we are talking about adultery or embezzlement.

  21. Johnycomelately says:

    It is a step in the right direction but how many words does it take to just say “kick her arse to the curb.” Why is there such a need for strict biblical approbation, the truth is absurdly obvious, even pagan Romans had more insight than modern Christians.

  22. The Rigorist says:

    First, this passed by and I thought would want a look:
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/enlightened-living/200901/the-extra-relational-affair-study-in-contrast

    It’s about how some affairs are GOOD for one’s marriage. *heh*

    Second, at what point do we stop grousing about how Marriage 2.0 is worthless and dangerous and accept that the magic is gone, marriage means “bad business deal for men”?

    I’m not talking about MGTOW … exactly. Let’s say a man has gone his own way and meets a woman who ( pure fantasy, i know ) wants something along the lines of Marriage 1.0? What do we have to do that? I mean apart from dowries held in escrow. Family law is a sham and a scam so what is there in contract law that we can use?

    Just to kick it off, I’ll suggest a couple of things.

    How about we legalize prostitution so that a man and a woman can make a contract for sexual fidelity?
    To replace the church, how about an HMO that does nothing except marital counselling? Couples buy in to get regular periodic relationship support.

    I’ve given these about 5 minutes of consideration, long enough to think of 2 things and type them. I’m not wedded to them ( *heheheh* ).

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  24. buck says:

    @ RE:
    Johnycomelately says:
    April 14, 2012 at 8:11 am

    “It is a step in the right direction but how many words does it take to just say “kick her arse to the curb.” Why is there such a need for strict biblical approbation, the truth is absurdly obvious, even pagan Romans had more insight than modern Christians.”

    The answer here is simple, the preservation of marital assets. It’s easy to say, “kick her ass to the curb”, and there is certainly the moral justification, but this stand on principle in the world of marriage 2.0, is a double ass pounding for the man. His wife gets to cheat, and she gets cash and prizes.
    Lets face an inconvenient fact, the aggrieved man made the HUGE mistake of marrying in the first place. Now that he is yoked to the devil, he has to survive as best he can with his bad choice. If he can absorb the financial blow, sure divorce, but if not, then he must make the best deal he can with the whore who is his wife. If he can guilt trip her into supplication after her sin, cool.
    If he can take off the bible blinders and accept the RED PILL, he comes to the realization that most women are just like his tramp wife, so cheating, remarriage etc is simply making a deal with a different devil .
    Accept that women bring 4 things to the table…looks, virtue, personality, money…take advantage of what yours brought to the table and move on.

  25. deti says:

    Buck:

    “The answer here is simple, the preservation of marital assets. It’s easy to say, “kick her ass to the curb”, and there is certainly the moral justification, but this stand on principle in the world of marriage 2.0, is a double ass pounding for the man. His wife gets to cheat, and she gets cash and prizes.”

    If faced with divorce, a married man might well be justified in simply quitting his job and going to jail for inability to make child support payments. Under our current laws it’s a foregone conclusion anyway. FIrst, financial ruin and confiscation of his assets are givens anyway, so he might as well not continue working at the same rate for the same pay. Second, he won’t see his kids anyway except a few days every other weekend, so what’s the difference between visits at a crappy apartment for a weekend, and visits at the county lockup? Third, turnips can’t bleed, so ex wife will get nothing. Sure, he is in jail, but he would be there anyway: a wage slave, being forced to live on 20% of his gross earnings, his income imputed so he can’t quit or get fired, isolated and alienated from family and friends.

    Why wouldn’t a lot of men make this calculus?

  26. Red says:

    “I would expect that a Christian man would initially try to find out what had been happening with his wife first, and gather some evidence, so that he could go forward with steps two and three. But the whole purpose of this process is not to destroy someone’s reputation but to restore fellowship, by obtaining recognition on the part of the sinner that they have sinned and then repentance for that sin / those sins, before reconciliation between the sinner and the victim of the sin, whether we are talking about adultery or embezzlement.”

    Why? Once a women has cheated on you can be sure she will cheat again. The marrage contract is null and void the moment she strays. Bringing her back into you marrage is about as bright as sleeping with a rattle snake.

    Adultery is both a crime and a sin. A crime must be paid for or others will do the same. The punishment must be public and her social standing must be destroyed in lue of the normal punishments that just socities deal out for adultry. Forgivness for her sin is between her and God. The crime is against both the husband and the entire church comunity.

    For some damn reason we have this crazy modern notion that humans can forgive crimes. We can’t. Every person we allow to commit a crime without punishment encourgaes 5 more people to do the same. You can be merciful in the punishment, but this sweeping it under the rug is disgusting and damaging to the christian community.

  27. deti says:

    Red:

    Good points. But, there’s a difference between Christian forgiveness and imposition of consequences (punishment, etc.) Forgiveness does not mean the object of forgiveness need not walk out consequences.

    The reformed slut is forgiven her past promiscuity. But that does not relieve her of consequences (inability/reduced capacity to pair bond, emotional baggage, sexual hangups, STDs, sharply reduced marriage market value).

    The adulterer is forgiven of the adultery. But that does not relieve her of consequences (divorce, social ostracism, financial peril, post-divorce spinsterhood).

  28. Red says:

    deti,
    Consequences are not punishment. If I steal money from my work place it changes it me. I start believing that it’s normal to steal, that others are trying to steal from me, ect. I live with the consequences of my evil act(s). But a failure to punish me for my crimes is far more damaging to the social fabric. You can not forgive an adulterer of her crime and only God can forgive her for her sin of adultery. Sins are between you and god. Crimes are between man, the family, and the church and must be dealt with as such.

  29. Red says:

    The church used to be an institution that not only saved people from their sins, but also punished them for their crimes against the body of Christ. You don’t have a real christian community if churches do one, but not the other.

  30. greyghost says:

    Deti
    “Why wouldn’t a lot of men make this calculus?”
    Ignorance,the average man is still under the delusion that he is an american with constitutional rights. The same rights and rule of law he was taught all the way elementary to high school and every other cop show. When he heres of a man getting screwed in court it is always because the man did wrong. So the poor honorable and respectful of wedding vows man go along thinking that being honest and faithful means a damn thing. The trick is to get the guy to think he is bad and deserves it. The reality for many men is too much to bare. Military men that have given their essence of their being to the US in combat come home to family law and are so over welmed with the hit from the lie they kill themselves in larger numbers than the enemy has. Thomas Ball got his awakening and burned himself alive. The system is tailor made to destroy honest men. And the truth is that unbareable.

  31. Rookie Writer says:

    This is a good read. I read it while I was getting my oil changed on my phone. And I really found this article really good for men. We are not accountable for our wives actions.

    [D: Thanks. I almost deleted this as a spam comment but then I noticed that you have previous comments. :) ]

  32. norm says:

    amazing advice. i’m not christian but was married to a catholic; notice i didn’t say christian. she insisted we go to counseling but then would back down and make me go alone. she constantly implied to me, our children, and when she did see a therapist with me that everything was my fault. all the while she was cheating on me and like an idiot i forgave her because she promised to change. she slept with parish counsel members married and not; bosses, a priest, fellow employees; even our family doctor as well as anyone else she could. she gave new meaning to “open door policy”! i thought her initial quest to be a nun would be an asset to our marriage but i was SOOOO wrong. her one brother told my best man to let me know she slept with the entire football team in high school and this was at the rehearsal dinner for our wedding. at her 20 or 25th high school reunion she disappeared on me with an old boyfriend for over an hour and once i caught her naked with our oldest daughter’s fiancee. when we seperated she was cheating with a married man from the same church who worked for the archdiocese no less. ironically she cheated on him as he did to her and they finally broke up. by that time she was already dating another guy before the breakup and she’s been with him for a while now. they married in 2008 at city hall, not the church. she rarely attends church now except for holidays. i firmly believe she was taken by the devil years ago and the spell never broken and now she’s essentially G-dless. the only soul she has is the sole on her shoes.

  33. Zach says:

    Good Lord (a bit of pun intended), you really have something up your *ss about “Christians” and divorce/cheating/marriage. Honestly, why focus so heavily on these people? What about atheists and marriage? What about Jews and marriage? The more you focus on “Christian” ideals, the more you come off like some born-again hick from Kansas railing against the “kids these days”. Your general posts are quite good, but every time you go off on a rant about “Christian” women, I click away. I say “Christian” in quotes because if you did some research you might find that in terms of adherence to strict church doctrine, “Christians” are about as varied as the nonreligious. When 98% of Catholic women use birth control, generalizing about adherence to some imaginary religious norm is a bit beside the point.

  34. GKChesterton says:

    @Zach,

    Because he is one and is interested in his “tribe”? Because readers like me care? Because your statistics are mindlessly lame and don’t reflect church attendence? Because Christianity should adhere to a higher standard? Because Christianity informs the formation of Western society?

    Those are just off the top of my head.

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  36. Zach says:

    @GKChesterton

    All for him being interested in his “tribe”. However, if that’s what he wants to write about, he might advertise it as a Christian blog, which he does not. Beyond that, if you want statistics reflecting church attendance, see here: http://www.thearda.com/quickstats/qs_105.asp . It’s from the 2008 GSS. That’s roughly 31% that attends nearly once a week or more. So essentially that doesn’t apply to 69% of the population. And I believe you’d find even within that 31% an enormous range of adherence to their religion’s stated principles. So I believe talking about what a Christian “should” do is discussing what amounts to a largely imaginary standard in modern America. It’s as if it’s 2005 and he’s railing about Catholic women using contraception. IE, it’s not advice, it’s not pragmatic, and it’s not even a particularly insightful take on data. Christians aren’t following stated church doctrine all the time? Really? That’s the first I’ve heard about it.

  37. deti says:

    Zach:

    Another reason why we talk about “Christian” issues is because the Church in North America advertises itself as something that it is not. The Church makes many claims about itself that are simply not true or no longer true. Sadly, the Church is no longer the bastion of traditional values, morality and virtue that it sells itself to be. Part of what Dalrock is doing is calling the Church out on it.

    Claim: The Church trains up young women for marriage and motherhood, and creates women who are insulated from the culture and therefore different and better. A man wanting a wife needs to get one from church.

    Truth: There is no difference at all between Christian girls and secular girls. If anything, hypergamy among Christian women is far, far worse. Dating and choosing a wife from church is even more difficult because a man can’t even get a date from these ultrahypergamous “Daughters of the King” and “God’s Special Princesses”.

    Claim: The Church supports marriage and does its best to preserve marriage against divorce.

    Truth: The national divorce rate is around 50%. The divorce rate among Christians is about the same. The “38% figure” you hear about is active Christians, attending church once a week or more, I think. The Church is doing absolutely NOTHING to strengthen marriages and prevent divorce.

    A man who cheats? The church’s response is: He’s a low down, dirty scumbag who deserves poverty, excommunication, and ostracism. He cheated because he’s just a lustful, sinful, porn-addicted wreck who doesn’t appreciate her. If she divorces him, he deserves it and we’ll do everything we can to see to it.

    A woman who cheats? The church’s response is: She’s a victim of her brutish, workaholic husband who obviously refuses to meet her needs. She cheated because he drove her to it. He needs to repent and work on their marriage, forgive her, and take her back. If he divorces her, he needs to take care of his ex wife and help her get back on her feet; and he needs to make sure he doesn’t do this again the next time.

    Claim: The Church stands against feminism.

    Truth: The Church in its proclamations and activities is feminist and egalitarian. The Eph. 5 model for marriage requires the woman to submit and the man to sacrificial love and leadership. But only the latter is preached while the former is ignored. Women are viewed as on an equal footing with men in every way, biological differences between the sexes are ignored or derided, and women are discouraged from biblical submission if the man is in the least bit “in sin” or “disobedient”.

    Claim: The Church discourages premarital sex.

    Truth: True, on paper only. In practice, premarital sex and sluthood are winked at, ignored, and downplayed. The objective is to get her married off as quickly as possible. Forgiveness and preparation for marriage after years of sluthood are as easy as a prayer and a speech. Presto-changeo, see the slut magically transformed into a “born again virgin” and “reformed slut”, now fully prepared to be thrust as wife material on the first unsuspecting beta provider she can dupe. The men in church, meanwhile, are shamed into accepting her as pure as the driven snow; and bullied into lining up to compete for her used up, worn out affections.

  38. deti says:

    At church:

    Women, wives and mothers are exalted, validated, and affirmed. Men, husbands and fathers are sternly lectured, admonished, and solemnly reminded of their obligations in the most serious and grave of tones.

    Women have privileges and rights. Men have duties and obligations.

    Women can feel and participate in support groups. Men must think and take responsibility — alone.

    Women are taught that sex is a good thing and that they can do whatever they want. Men are taught that sex is bad and they can do only what she wants.

    Women are taught that if she and her husband don’t have a good sex life, it is because of his problems and he is not caring enough. Men are taught that if his wife does not like sex, it is because he is not good looking enough, he is fat and out of shape, he is boring and not exciting enough, or he needs to focus more on her orgasm.

  39. Pingback: Linkage is Good for You: Week of April 15, 2012

  40. Ballista_GTOW says:

    Given some of the topics here, I found this article pretty interesting (this probably the best place I could think of to post this). It seems a tacit admission of something several of the tradcons like Darwin Catholic believe doesn’t exist in the Catholics. Feminism has infested them, too. While the topics of gay marriage and abortion are the ones that are brought up, I’d be interested to see how the topics of marriage, divorce/annulment, and others are addressed within the confines of Roman Catholicism. I seriously doubt they will be.

    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/20/11306372-catholic-nuns-group-stunned-by-vatican-scolding-for-radical-feminist-ideas?lite/

  41. narcoticmusing says:

    Provocation has long been used to excuse abusive behaviour. Generally by male perpetrators of abuse, saying the female provoked them. I do not at all excuse behaviour such as adultery or abuse; but this suggests that rather than reflect on oneself and how one can improve oneself, just lay the blame at the other because their deed was the greater evil.

    Again, I’m not suggesting for a minute that the cheated on party is at fault for their partner cheating, just as I do not suggest that an abused is responsible for the acts of the abuser – but this sort of attitude removes any space for self-reflection and improvement.

    Yes, it is important that the cheater/abuser accept responsibility for their actions, but it is also important we take opportunities to learn and improve ourselves. Self reflection is greatly lacking in our society and this thread.

    By the way, I’d like to see when people like UK Fred cite statisics that ‘40% of domestic violence victims are male’ – I’d like to see the source for that. I can however, give you a credible source that places the number one preventable admission of women to hospitals being due to domestic violence by their male partners (Department of Health data, happy to provide a source if people want to see actual data that isn’t biased). This is not the case for men.

    Again, I’m not suggesting men are not ever victims of abuse nor am I wishing to diminish the suffering of men in those situations, but there is a lot of women hating on this forum without context that they are overwhelmingly the victims of male violence, not the other way around. Commenters speak of ‘anti-male’ bias but this whole thread is full of hate.

    Just wanting to provoke some reflection and thinking. Thanks for allowing me to drop by.

  42. Wilson says:

    Talk about narcotic musings. You reject the provocation defense, and then somehow think that it is valuable for men to think about how they provoked their wives to cheat. Your rambling continues to consider domestic violence, coming full circle to reject the capacity of women for provocation. The matter is simple: cheating is wrong. hitting is wrong. It would be a strange occurrence of inequality if the incidence of these was limited to one gender. Your attempt make them exclusively male problems, by dismissing female capacity and responsibility, and labeling anyone who disagrees with you a bigot is disgustingly dishonest.

  43. an observer says:

    NM,

    Clearly you have more than inhaled.

    Shaming men and accusing them of misogny might have a hope of working if women were pure snowflakes, without sin and worthy of worship. The assumption is that women only get violent as a last resort, after provocation. Whereas men are hardwired to be violent, the brutes. But alas, the stats clearly show women are just as violent as men.

    For instance, DOJ figures show that over 800,000 men are assaulted and more than 500 killed by intimates each year, with many more deaths recorded as accidents. Lacking physical strength, women are also much more likely to convince other men to do their dirty work, be it assault, injure or death, such as honour killings.

    Of course, the excuse is that women were pushed into being violent, ina reactive way. We have a name for people that always react without much rational thought. We call them children. This is probably unacceptable to the modern woman, who prides herself on being an equal, and insists that reactive violence is a logical outcome of the evil patriarchy.

    So we come to one study that allegedly shows hospital admissions for domestic violence supports women suffer more. Case closed, no further explanation required.

    I would guess then that the hundreds of studies and surveys that show otherwise are all flawed, then? That women’s use of manipulation, underhanded violence and use of proxies simply don’t count?

    That one study shows more injuries simply highlights the differences in physical strength. Of course its always the man’s fault. Even when he’s dead:

    http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-12-29/news/30570804_1_metra-commuter-train-edgebrook-dead-victim

    Culpability is much more balanced. The achievement of equal opptunity to inflict injury and death is just another one of women’s unrecognised triumphs.

    Thanks for stopping by.

  44. nelson says:

    Wow. I can’t believe I spent five minutes letting you people rot my brain. Do you read what you write?

    That a woman can get divorced but not remarried. Lmao
    The US is not making its laws a per xian morality. No duh

    Its actually quite humorous to read how your marriages are done in by the devil. Not to argue from authority or the masses but I find it very interesting that you all have the same reasons for why your wife cheated on you. Then you all find the onrackpot to agree with you (even after he himself admits that most xians will disagree with him). Lmao. Really people? I’ve been married twice and you know what? My marriageow (which is my send) iseat. Want to know wy? Because I learned from my first mistakes. Yeah I went to conseling and learned that I might not have been the perfect husband. Go figure. Yes yes you’ll go on your spiel how because I am not a xian blah blah blah. It’s funny. Xian dogma teaches that when you sin you ask for forveness with a repentant heart and you will be absolved. Constantly you ask god to make you a wiser person. To give you the insight and courage to face life. Yet when you get your misogynistic, human male ego’s hurt, that’s the first thing you cling to. Forget about insight or wisdom because you had nothing to do with it. After that lets turn to a 2000 yr old book for our support and proceed with the immoral acts there. No wonder she left

  45. nelson, “Do you read what you write?”

    This, from someone who writes the most confused and illiterate thing I have ever seen on this site!

  46. E. D. West says:

    I thank God the father for this long time coming relief for men hallelujah glory to our heavenly father in Jesus’name amen.

  47. madhusudan says:

    please give a proper reply when my wife and mother of 4 year son had done sin by going for sex
    and blue film and cheatd me like any thing and challenged me

  48. gazzajagman says:

    Well, I’m going through exactly this exact sitation at the moment. My wife informed me that she “loved me…but wasn’t in-love with me”. We then went to relate and out church marriage councellor, She told the relate councellor I had abused her (news to me!) and the church councellor pretty much stabbed me in the back and took her view….she was an angry divorcee herself. There was no proof, just her word and emotional here-say. My wife then went on to find anything she could blame me for….then her infidelity was uncovered, a bloke from her work and it all started to make sence. I forgave her, but she still left me and is now divorcing me under what ever grounds she can chuck at me…even though my part in all this is relatively minor. I don’t go to that particular church anymore and now I go to a far more loving and biblically principled church. But my wife refuses to accept any liability or causality for the breakup. As far as she is concearned, it’s all my fault. Anyone hear a broken record playing here?

  49. anonymous says:

    my wife refuses to accept any liability or causality for the breakup. As far as she is concearned, it’s all my fault. Anyone hear a broken record playing here?

    You have just encountered the “rationalization hamster”. In order to live with herself, she has to someohow pretend it was your fault, not hers.

    Condolences.

  50. 8oxer says:

    the church councellor pretty much stabbed me in the back and took her view….she was an angry divorcee herself. There was no proof, just her word and emotional here-say. My wife then went on to find anything she could blame me for….then her infidelity was uncovered…

    Surprise, surprise, surprise.

    I realize you’re going through a very distressing time, but it seems like it’s just you two with no kids (I’m assuming you would have mentioned them, if you had any.) That’s a good thing.

    Keep it together and go through the motions. You’ll look back (soon!) and realize that your wife and the idiot relationship counselor gave you the best gift that they could possibly have given you: your freedom.

    Consider going on a dating/sex moratorium after you get rid of this woman. 3 months minimum where you just work on yourself, and tell women to piss off. It usually surprises a newly divorced brother how quickly women come out of the woodwork to woo him into a new rebound relationship. Your wife’s sisters will see you as an easy paycheck that they can control with a minimum of difficulty in your time of weakness. Don’t fall for this.

    Pay the bitch off, and be glad to be rid of her. Life is wonderful as a single man. Enjoy it.

    Regards, Boxer

  51. 8oxer says:

    the church councellor pretty much stabbed me in the back and took her view….she was an angry divorcee herself. There was no proof, just her word and emotional here-say. My wife then went on to find anything she could blame me for….then her infidelity was uncovered…

    Surprise, surprise, surprise.

    I realize you’re going through a very distressing time, but it seems like it’s just you two with no kids (I’m assuming you would have mentioned them, if you had any.) That’s a good thing.

    Keep it together and go through the motions. You’ll look back (soon!) and realize that your wife and the idiot relationship counselor gave you the best gift that they could possibly have given you: your freedom.

    Consider going on a dating/sex moratorium after you get rid of this woman. 3 months minimum where you just work on yourself, and tell women to piss off. It usually surprises a newly divorced brother how quickly women come out of the woodwork to woo him into a new rebound relationship. Your wife’s sisters will see you as an easy paycheck that they can control with a minimum of difficulty in your time of weakness. Don’t fall for this.

    Pay the bitch off, and be glad to be rid of her. Life is wonderful as a single man. Enjoy it.

    Regards, Boxer

  52. HawkandRock says:

    I want to read the three part article on the Christian Men’s Defense Network but the site is down. Can anyone direct me to archived versions? Much Thanks.

  53. HawkandRock says:

    Got it: http://web.archive.org/web/20130318011036/http://cmd-n.org/

    Thanks to Waybackmachine.

    Very good article.

  54. Dear John says:

    I have to tell the other guys here that the psychological pain of having an unfaithful wife lasts for years, maybe even a lifetime. I have been through hundreds of hours of therapy and I thought that the infidelity that ended my first marriage was in the past, but in the last few weeks it started surfacing in my dreams, and obsessing me like it did (X10) when it first happened. It was like turning a pile of compost that looks dry and dead, and seeing that here are layers that are still steaming and hot. I pride myself on having a high level of psychological self-insight, but I became aware that I actually repressed some of the most painful aspects of it, as a coping device. Now that it’s coming back to me, I recognize that I haven’t finished with it yet. It is important to have a site dedicated to the issues that men have, rather than the women’s magazine psychobabble version that makes it all seem sort of normal. A man should not get used to the idea that his wife is having sex with other men, period.
    I can’t tell the whole story in one post, but I’ll focus on what I had repressed, and how it is still hurting me to this day. I was going to university to get my degree in psychology. In my circles at the time, the whole New Age/Psychology Today/ women’s magazine advice columns claptrap was in vogue. My wife and I met at college, and we got inspired to live a holy life, so we moved into a religious community together. We were both very sincere and dedicated spiritual seekers who prayed and read from scriptures eight hours a day, as part of the community we were living in. We were both very pure beings, dedicated to seeking direct knowledge of God, and it was simply not even in the realm of possibility for me that my wife would ever contemplate committing such an impure act. We were happy together during this time and I thought that I had found my soul mate. I was very idealistic and very naïve.
    We left the religious community and I decided to go back to school and finish up my degree so I could get better jobs. My wife worked at a bank, and I took a heavy course load to finish school quickly. That created a power imbalance in our marriage, because I depended on her for all our income. She began to be resentful about not having a career of her own, and she started doing free-lance journalism, which I encouraged. She began to get a lot of by-lines in newspapers and magazines for her feature articles. With her newfound career, she began to hang out with a group of writers and journalists. She lost interest in maintaining the daily prayers and readings, which I kept faithfully, as well as to all the moral teachings we had learned through our teachers. I was Mr. Dudley DoRight, living a clean and pure life with my one love for all time. I noticed that she was adopting more and more secular values and attitudes, and seemed to be withdrawing from me. I thought that this was just a phase, and I was determined to get a good job so that she wouldn’t have to take on the whole burden of paying our bills.
    She began to spend more and more evenings away from home at night, “working on a story”. What a story that turned out to be! It seemed true, because she was publishing regularly, and I wanted her to have a life of her own. And, man, did she ever! I first noticed something changing in my sex drive towards her. I had to initiate sex every time, and she turned me down most of the time, claiming to need her sleep. Finally, I got resentful and stubborn, and I stopped asking at all. Then there was no sex, for months at a time. She occasionally would grant me some very tame, disinterested love-making, like she remembered that she had a chore to do. All this time, the affair was in full swing.
    After about a year of this misery, she announced out of the blue that she was leaving to “find herself”. {OK, this is what I just retrieved from my memory bank this week, after years in the basement of my subconscious mind. As she was leaving, she was carrying a handful of her toiletries, and out rolls her diaphragm! It was like a sci-fi movie, rolling in slow motion across the floor and landing at my feet. She turned crimson red and I blanched white. It was the second most embarrassing moment in my life. Embarrassment is not a strong enough word. My heart actually seized up, like I was having a heart attack. We both knew what that Freudian slip meant. She was planning to have sex with other men!} Turns out, she had been having a very lively sex life the whole time with her boyfriend, a man ten years older than her who was a nationally published journalist who started out mentoring her and ended up f*cking her three times a week, while she was “out on assignment” for her next article. She never mentioned him to me the entire time, and she never admitted that she had the relationship, ever. I found out about it through one of my university instructors, who knew the journalist. It was confirmed through my probing some members of her writer’s group, who knew about it all long before I did. They were not my friends, so no one felt compelled to tell me. They were all into f*cking each other in a series of revolving affairs, and so it was acceptable behavior in their decadent world.
    On some level, I think that she chose not to admit it to me because she did feel morally conflicted about it, and she did appreciate our comfortable domestic life together. She knew that I would be appalled beyond measure, and had she told me, I would have left her immediately. I colluded in this by not asking more questions about her frequent evening “assignments”. It was kind of a “don’t ask, don’t tell” situation. I really didn’t want to know, and she was too ashamed to tell me. I do appreciate that her conscience got the best of her, because she realized that she could not continue to live a lie, and had enough integrity to get out.
    Of course, her high-end boyfriend got tired of her after a few months, and kicked her out to go live with her parents. That was some consolation to me. I think that he got off on the taboo aspect of it and when she became a housemate, he got bored with her and moved on to the next conquest. Man did I ever get the scales ripped from my eyes! My poor little heart was shattered, and my religious faith was severely tested. I thought that living a moral life was the ticket to protect me from misfortune, and all the while that I was being a good boy, never even looking at another woman or even relieving my sexual tension, she was out balling up a storm. I didn’t have a date or sex for six years after that. My self-confidence was shattered, and the heartbreak has never really healed.
    The conclusion that I came to was that I needed to be more worldly and less trusting. Trust but verify. The signs were there, but in the context of a false sense of “maturity” that made it bad form to raise suspicions about your mate’s fidelity , I chose to disregard the signs as insignificant.
    The bottom line is this: when your woman gets to the point where she is eagerly spreading her legs and laying out her p*ssy for another man’s c*ck and working it till he comes in her, you are finished as a lover. You might decide that you need to stay together for the kids or for all the intricate intertwining of your lives with family and finances, but dude, you’re toast. It’s best just to cut your losses and move on, so that you can recover your dignity and live with pride and self-respect. Infidelity is ‘game over’.
    Sadder but Wiser…

  55. Jeff says:

    I agree. Churches don’t deal with Women that lust.
    Porn, literotica the guy next door, The Bachelor or Brad Pitt. It’s not necessarily the medium but the trigger.
    If you lust it sometimes leads to infedelity.
    Right from the beginning the Devil got to the man through the woman.
    Infedility happens more and more and women are lying about it less. At least in surveys.
    Christian Women are masturbating with all kinds of fantasies from literotica that is actually quite shocking
    Christian women are also flirting more, getting botox, lip injections, dressing provocatively, hitting the gym 7 days a week and forever trying to get more attention.
    This is not always a good influence on younger women.
    I have overheard and have been told about many conversations that had Christian women cheating or flirting to the point of cheating.
    They are putting themselves in situations that are dangerous.
    The point I’m trying to make is that women today have different challenges than the previous generation,
    and there are no support groups or discussions in the Church.

    J

  56. Pingback: What To Do When Your Wife Doesn’t Want To Have Sex With You | Dr Carol Show

  57. SJP says:

    What happens when both the husband and wife have cheated on each other. Wife is willing to admit that she has a problem and is seeing a psychologist for both the infidelity and the historical problems she brought to the marriage through sexual abuse experiences by her grandfather when she was a child. Yet because husband ‘came out’ and confessed his cheating to wife and wife was just ‘busted’, husband refuses to take any responsibility for his actions.

  58. heather bush says:

    !!!

  59. Pingback: The Legacy Of Gomer And Hosea Lives On

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