The word “husband” as bragging rights.

One of the more common misconceptions in the manosphere is that women don’t place any cachet in being married.  A surprising number of men have inadvertently swallowed the feminist misdirection on this issue.  This is somewhat understandable, since there is a paradox involved here.  Yes women are divorcing frivolously at alarming rates as well as delaying marriage. Yes most women seem to enjoy (or are at least very open to) messages glorifying divorce as empowerment.  But anyone who has studied game even a little knows that what women want doesn’t always make sense from a man’s perspective.  An obvious case in point is that women want commitment from an attractive man, despite the fact that a man offering commitment tends to make the man less attractive to women (but it does build comfort).

Even prior to my coming to the manosphere my wife has pointed out the cachet the term husband has with women.  Very often when women invoke the term there is a subtle status message, a sort of bragging right.  The wife of one newlywed couple we met on a cruise several years ago used the term fairly conspicuously in this way, although many would likely have missed the subtext.

One way my wife uses the cachet of the term is when other women are trying to pressure her into something she doesn’t want to do.  She has found that if she tells a saleswoman she doesn’t like a particular scent, for example, that the woman will just continue trying to talk her into it.  The same goes for girlfriends trying to talk her into a different style or a new product.  One day a woman was trying to sell her something that she knew I wouldn’t like, so she said My husband wouldn’t like that.  The phrase was like a magic incantation;  the saleswoman immediately dropped the issue.  She has found it works just as well with girlfriends.  It is the one thing which will stop the constant pressure from other women to get her to conform on something.

Just the other week my wife was looking at Halloween candy at Oriental Trading Company.  She noticed that many of the reviews showed a kind of wifely pride which many in the manosphere wouldn’t believe is possible.  One woman shared her thoughts on Oozing Eyeballs:

I was alittle disappointed in these because I purchased them to put on top of cupcakes. I thought the eyeball design was on the product, but it’s on the package. My husband says they taste good though…

And another review on the same product:

Actually my husband requested these. We bought them several years ago and he ate them ALL before Halloween!!! So, bought them just for him this year.

Somewhere a feminist’s head just exploded.  But what can they do?  They’ve already tried moxie.

That women can take pride in their men and the inherent status for women associated with relationships is denied by feminists and many MRAs alike.  Denied or not, it remains the truth.  Heartiste touched on this in a recent addition to the collection of Maxims:

Maxim #1(a)(2): Men want to be turned on by their women. Women want to be proud of their men.

What do I mean by proud? It doesn’t necessarily mean she’s proud of your career success. It could mean something as simple and endearing as installing a mantle over her fireplace, so that when her girl friends come over for a party and ask about the fantastic looking mantle, she can tell them, with no uncertain amount of swelling pride, that her boyfriend did it. For her.

This is undoubtedly true, but husband would carry much more cachet than boyfriend when she is talking to another woman.  What woman can’t even get a boyfriend, after all?  Even the term fiancé has lost its value over time because so often there really is no commitment involved.  Ironically as women on average spend a smaller and smaller percentage of their adult lives as wives, having a husband if anything is growing in status.  Not only does it signify the ultimate in investment/commitment from a man, but it is now somewhat rare as well.

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64 Responses to The word “husband” as bragging rights.

  1. Ellimist says:

    So they want husbands, but they don’t want to be wives?

  2. terri says:

    One way my wife uses the cachet of the term is when other women are trying to pressure her into something she doesn’t want to do.

    I do this, too. Shuts people down instantly when they’re trying to pressure you into doing something, buying something, going somewhere, etc.

    It IS almost like magic, LOL!

  3. jz says:

    In the context of stating , “NO” , my NO means NO. I would never demean myself by invoking the power of a strongman/husband/boogeyman/sockpuppet.

    Similarly, men who jokingly use the power of “my wife says no” demean themselves by invoking the power of a higher power/wife/sockpuppet to carry their message.

    [D: Sorry for making your head explode like that. Next time I'll include some warning.]

  4. terri says:

    The thing is jz, is that men don’t have to invoke it. My husband doesn’t.

    But many people feel like they can persuade a woman if they try hard enough or push the right buttons. It’s just true.

    [D: I think jz is still mad that I made fun of Lorraine Berry.]

  5. b-nasty says:

    Dalrock,

    I think you’re missing the subtle jabs both of those comments make.

    #1: Wife discovered product advertising deception, dumb, hungry ape husband only cares about how they taste.
    #2: My human-vacuum cleaner husband ate ALL the food, so I had to buy him his own this year.

    Now I would agree that this attitude of ‘oh for heavens sake’ has been a dynamic in M/F relationships for a while, but it’s starting to seem like it’s no longer a joke. It’s sort of like that point where racial humor just becomes flat-out racist.

  6. I married way up, so it might be pride of accomplishment or something, but I play the husband card frequently. It’s effective as a practical tool, but its also very validating – I can have X because my husband is who he is, and he lends me credibility. Apart from him, not so much. I find it ironic that my “empowerment” and “equality” (um, safety and respect) come through closely identifying with him – why is that so hard for women to understand?

    What woman can’t even get a boyfriend, after all?

    I couldn’t. Seriously, men were not interested in me as an LTR. Just as well, as it turns out I wanted to be a wife, not just some on some guy’s service.

  7. Jack Dublin says:

    I imagine that, as Game and the MGTOW movements spread, getting a man to commit to marriage will become a greater status symbol for women. “Look at MY husband. He wanted ME. Not all you floozies.” Feminism collapses when faced with human nature.

  8. L says:

    Dalrock, I thought you might be interested in this story. It absolutely makes me sick. 99% of the comments feel the same way except for a few typical loonie feminazi shrills, constantly harping about how men are horrible fathers.

    Woman leaves 4 children and working husband to go to occupy wall street.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/she_plans_to_stray_awhile_opuo0dDOjE39dfRDdUZ1sM

  9. L says:

    Forgot to mention, she even compares herself with military servicemen and women who leave their families behind to serve their country.

    Lunatic women everywhere.

  10. 7man says:

    Maybe others will see the parallels in my blog post about Whose Reality Prevails?” Rather than reiterate, I’ll refer to what I said and leave it at that.

  11. dragnet says:

    [D: I think jz is still mad that I made fun of Lorraine Berry.]

    When I see
    “jz”
    in my head
    I think
    “jizz”

  12. theotheryoshi says:

    It is indeed refreshing to think that women do respect men, if only out of a sense of furthering their own means. I don’t know, I have a hard time with this concept though. That a woman can love or even have pride in her man. I can definately see how some on here might get the knee jerk response of sure, just more of what women want out of men, and nothing to fulfill on her part. I’m guilty of this, but I’m really trying hard to grab the optimistic view. Idk D, I’ll concede the point that women view having a husband as a status increase, but I’ll stand my ground on them viewing being a wife as a downgrade in status.

  13. Jehu says:

    Talking up your spouse is a socially sanctioned form of bragging :-) After all, most people know in their gut that husbands and wives have similar levels of desireability to the opposite sex—so much so that it is considered noteworthy when there’s a disparity. Thus if a woman says her husband is 6’3″ with the body of a Greek God and a brilliant mind, she’s indirectly bragging on her own qualities.

  14. Anonymous Reader says:

    Two questions:

    1. How many women are in this category, vs. the women in the “trashing my husband with the girls for fun” category? The latter certainly are visible, in all walks of life. There likely is some overlap, too, altough I cannot say how much.

    2. What age cohort is involved? Seems to me that all the women in comments or otherwise under discussion are over 30, some are over 40. Anyone in their 20′s who uses this word as a bragging right?

  15. viewing being a wife as a downgrade in status.

    I guess if you’re a cult leader, and there’s a swirl of super awesome mancake at your beck and call, choosing one could be seen as a downgrade. But I don’t think that’s all that common, except in the crowds where women overestimate their appeal (for whatever reason), and mistake sniffing around for legitimate interest, and screwing around for courtship. Men aren’t seeking quality women in those settings, are they?

  16. Odds says:

    Chicks definitely loving bragging about their man. I once managed to overhear my first girlfriend talking to her childhood best friend when we visited her hometown (they thought I was in the bathroom). My girlfriend was bragging that she was the first to get a college boyfriend, and that I was taller than her friend’s. At the time, hugely flattering; nowadays, something like that would annoy me, make me feel like a means to an end. Hopefully that’s just a delusion built up by a few years of emotional scar tissue and over-exposure to the red pill, and not, as I fear, accurate.

  17. Name says:

    Very true. I definitely engage in this with friends, acquaintances, and sales people.
    And I’ve recently started to use the “husband” mentality (but replacing it with dh’s name) recently on, guess who, my inlaws. After years and years (of suffering) of them making bad suggestions to me about life decisions (always when they get me alone, often encouraging frivolous financial decisions and discouraging the truly important stuff in life) when he’s not present and trying to politely nod my head, I’ve automatically began sputtering, “Nope, [he'd] never go for that.” No, [He's] not interested in that.” Or (to my feminist-leaning mother-in-law), “Oh, I don’t know about that. He handles all the money. If he says we can, then ok.” Ashame I have to use it on his own parents, but they’re definitely two of a kind (and toxicly liberal).

  18. terri says:

    Seems to me that all the women in comments or otherwise under discussion are over 30, some are over 40. Anyone in their 20′s who uses this word as a bragging right?

    CC and I are both 40, so you may have a point. Of course, that just means that we’re smart enough to know how good we’ve got it. Keep in mind that women in their late 30′s, early 40′s are the biggest drivers of the divorce industry as well.

    However, I have heard a few older wives trash their husbands, too. I’ve heard young wives brag on their man. I don’t think age has as much to do with it as much as having a true appreciation for your mate.

  19. Uncle Elmer says:

    Definitely my wife enjoyed invoking the words “my husband” after she got married. She told me so.

    There’s another aspect to this in that when threatened, and by that I mean by a minor inconvenience or irritation, women will often call attention to the fact of “my husband!” as if he is some power player who will certainly make life miserable for the offendor. Though in reality can you imagine how reluctant a man would be to settle some idiot dispute his wife has created? Military and corporate wives are notorious for pulling this crap. I heard my own mother use it several times in my youth.

    Off-topic Dalrock, but this punctures everything you said in your last essay :

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/samanthaettus/2011/10/21/25-alarm-bells-for-women-sounds-from-miss-representation/

  20. The Continental Op says:

    Mrs. Op occasionally tells me of a situation where she would have to say “no” or disappoint someone somehow, and she is bothered by it. Yeah, woman, thy name is “Conformity!” She is visibly relieved when I tell her, “Just tell them ‘Continental says so’ “

  21. TFH says:

    This is undoubtedly true, but husband would carry much more cachet than boyfriend when she is talking to another woman.

    Another sign of the unnatural state of affairs today.

    The words ‘boyfriend’ and ‘girlfriend’ exist because most people by age 25 had husbands or wives. Unmarried relationships only existed among people who could still be called ‘boys’ and ‘girls’. Words like ‘manfriend’ and even ‘ladyfriend’ are hardly ever used, even in this society where unmarried 40 year olds are common.

    I feel like dry heaving every time people age 40 talk about ‘boyfriends’.

    And yes, this is mostly due to feminism, rather than the fault of most men.

  22. TFH says:

    D: Sorry for making your head explode like that. Next time I’ll include some warning.

    When people say this, I often wonder, wouldn’t the most accurate term be ‘implode’?

  23. Basil Ransom says:

    I noticed this when shopping for clothing recently. I’ll be looking at men’s clothing, and I’ll see a review by a girlfriend or wife of the recipient. Invariably, the reviews are a little shallow, tending towards, eg, “I bought this for my husband. He loves it and asked me to purchase more!” http://canvas.landsend.com/pp/JaspeacuteVneckTee~212415_-1.html?

    Eg, “I bought these in different colors for my husband and he loved them. They are super comfortable and look amazing :) I extremely recommend them!!!!!” http://www.target.com/p/Mossimo-Tee-Grey-Jaspe/-/A-13037623#reviews-and-ratings

    Sometimes, the woman will even boast about how tall and muscular her boyfriend/husband is. I recall seeing one like, “These fit my 6’5″ muscular boyfriend GREAT!!!” The truth of the Roissy Maxim is clear… women proud enough will boast to faceless herds of internet onlookers.

  24. Guardial says:

    A few years back some hospital banned the staff from using “Mrs” to address married women working there. It was felt to be demeaning to the unmarried women, or something.

  25. Anonymous Reader says:

    cottagechild
    I guess if you’re a cult leader, and there’s a swirl of super awesome mancake at your beck and call, choosing one could be seen as a downgrade. But I don’t think that’s all that common, except in the crowds where women overestimate their appeal (for whatever reason), and mistake sniffing around for legitimate interest, and screwing around for courtship. Men aren’t seeking quality women in those settings, are they?

    So men should not seek to marry women who are going to college?

  26. Laura Grace Robins says:

    “It is the one thing which will stop the constant pressure from other women to get her to conform on something.”

    Largely true; although, I have on occasion received a concerned/worried response back along the lines of “don’t let your husband get in the way of doing what you want to do”. I imagine they think I am being controlled or something of that nature. Of course they are really bothered that I am listening or thinking of someone other than themselves and their sisterhood.

    “This is undoubtedly true, but husband would carry much more cachet than boyfriend when she is talking to another woman.”

    Using “boyfriend” is powerful under age 25 (especially in high school), but after that it starts to not have as much weight. Having a boyfriend is like having a high school education or even a BA education–everyone has/had one at some point, therefore its value goes down. If you had a boyfriend in middle school you were one envied, special girl, but a boyfriend at 30–not so much.

    “…..having a husband if anything is growing in status. Not only does it signify the ultimate in investment/commitment from a man, but it is now somewhat rare as well.”

    This is true too. Especially the younger one gets married. Having a husband at 22 is more a status symbol as in comparison it shows that woman must have been special enough that a man would swoop her up right away. The older a woman gets the more men might think “what is wrong with her” and why has no other man deemed her worthy of investment yet.

  27. terri says:

    Having a husband at 22 is more a status symbol as in comparison it shows that woman must have been special enough that a man would swoop her up right away.

    I am inclined to agree with this except as a 22 year old bride most of the women I encountered thought that I gave up far too much freedom to settle down so young.

    That was a nearly universal sentiment.

  28. Laura Grace Robins says:

    Terri,
    I can see your point there too. I suppose in our online circles it makes more sense, but to the outside world marriage at 22 doesn’t mean you are valuable, it means you are boring and settle too easy (at least to the women, who may just have jealously at the root of their comments anyway).

  29. So men should not seek to marry women who are going to college?

    Well, I’d say they shouldn’t seek to marry women who are participating in the conventional college hook up scene. They’re too available (more women than men attending college, these days), hence the likelihood of lower quality.

  30. Miss_Fu says:

    “Anyone in their 20′s who uses this word as a bragging right?”

    It is true that the average 20-something doesn’t find having a husband anything to brag about. But I have found the opposite to be the case with most of my friends. I’m a Muslim and so most of my girlfriends in their 20s are married and don’t let anyone forget it. They will also use their husbands as excuses not to do something. This is especially true lately since there are a small, but growing number of Muslim girls in their 20s not getting married right after college (as is the norm amongst American Muslims). Sometimes they are looking to delay responsibility, but increasingly, Muslim men are marrying converts or less-Americanized Muslim women from their parents’ home countries. This is reducing the number of men available for Muslim girls. I am one of the late 20s Muslim girls who isn’t married (not for the reasons mentioned above), and it is embarrassing to admit to Muslim women I just meet that I’m 27 and not yet married.

    By the way, Dalrock, I don’t think that I’ve commented before, but I just wanted to say that I’ve been a lurker for almost a year and I think that your blog is great.

    [D: Welcome to the blog!]

  31. Anonymous Reader says:

    cottagechild, you seem to be missing the point. The point is, looking across the landscape of the foreign country that I find myself living in, crowds where women overestimate their appeal (for whatever reason), and mistake sniffing around for legitimate interest, and screwing around for courtship. appears more and more to be the norm. Although some of them are able to pretend to be other than they are for short periods of time.

    So frankly, your comment looks more like snark than anything useful, at least to me at this time.

  32. whiskey says:

    I dunno, for every positive sign, there’s the wife who dumps her family to shack up with some waiter at Occupy Wall Street and get baked every day. Feminists don’t seem proud of their husbands, my guess would be women will only be proud of husbands if: A. Hubby is big, tall, menacing/muscular; B. POWERFUL; C. Famous. That kind of leaves most guys out, I would suppose.

    [D: He doesn't have to be king alpha. He just has to be worthy and not married to a class A bitch. That last part is the tricky part though, obviously.]

  33. Anonymous Reader says:

    terri
    I am inclined to agree with this except as a 22 year old bride most of the women I encountered thought that I gave up far too much freedom to settle down so young.
    That was a nearly universal sentiment.

    That is what I see as well. It fits well with the ostracizing of women who stay home with their children. It is worth bearing in mind that most people still don’t read blogs/sites like this, of those that read sites like this there’s a fairly small group who read more than once, and those who post are a subset of that group. It is no accident that the same posters show up in various blogs.

    Frankly, this whole conversation seems to me to be an example of the fallacy of composition.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition

  34. Anonymous Reader says:

    Whisky, you left out D. Extremely wealthy.

    That woman’s husband might want to consider divorcing her, because after she’s been in that shanty town for a while the probability of her picking up any number of diseases, starting with Hepatitus A, monotonically will approch 1.0, and thus in the event she returns his own health will be put at risk.

  35. Dalrock says:

    @Terri

    I am inclined to agree with this except as a 22 year old bride most of the women I encountered thought that I gave up far too much freedom to settle down so young.

    That was a nearly universal sentiment.

    How much of this is sisterly concern vs sisterly competition? I suspect is is nearly universally the latter. Women who are delaying marriage have that fear in the back of their minds. When other women marry, it brings that out since they have less of a sense of safety in the herd. Plus other women choosing first has obvious ramifications for them. This comes from the same place the you would look so beautiful in short hair! comments come from.

    My wife heard this same “concern” from other women when she married me at 20. As far as I know all of the concerned ladies are either divorced or never married (now in their late 30s).

  36. Just the opposite, no snark intended, AR 6:59. You’re right, bad behavior has largely become normalized, and this: some of them are able to pretend to be other than they are for short periods of time. This is particularly troublesome. I sincerely do not think young men should look to college social settings for their brides, in general. They’re outnumbered, odds against.

  37. greyghost says:

    Jack Dublin
    I imagine that, as Game and the MGTOW movements spread, getting a man to commit to marriage will become a greater status symbol for women. “Look at MY husband. He wanted ME. Not all you floozies.” Feminism collapses when faced with human nature.

    Keep this under your hat jack. We need to get a tripling of the hysteria like that article from the atlantic with that Kate chick. Infact dalrock no more articles of women actually acknowledging their husbands in a neutral to flatterable way. As soon as we get a male pill on the market Dalrock and have some childless carousel riders in their mid thirties complaining about not being able to find a man that wants children we can pull these articles out. Even married women will need to behave if they want children.
    My son is five when he turns 20 I want there to be politeness from the current priviledged class. If not he can be a door to door cat litter sales and delivery man. Spend his time teasing cat ladies.

    [D: No worries greyghost. The women you are concerned about won't hear the message, even if it is presented to them on a silver platter. There are a small subset of women open to this message. The rest either already get it or never will.]

  38. Kathy says:

    ” but I play the husband card frequently.” So do I CC. Always have.
    It’s not uncommon amongst women who love their husbands.

    If someone pressures me into buying something I will just say to them I have to ask my husband first.. Gets rid of them pronto because they are usually after a quick sale. They know too, that the husband will probably put the kibosh on the sale.. Lol.

    Though some months back a male tele marketer told me I need not consult my husband.. I hung up on him :D

  39. anonymouse-1 says:

    Here is another interesting study that men have to worry about if and when they do marry. I guess in the old days men had to worry about predatory men, but now a man can lose a woman to another woman.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2051284/More-half-women-bi-curious-attracted-women.html#ixzz1bMZD2FQO

  40. Chels says:

    I am one of the late 20s Muslim girls who isn’t married (not for the reasons mentioned above), and it is embarrassing to admit to Muslim women I just meet that I’m 27 and not yet married.

    I completely understand what you’re saying, I went to a university that had a significant Muslim population, and the Muslim girls that I knew were all either married by the time they graduated or they had their nikah right after they wrote their last exam. However, this was extremely weird to the rest of us, and we did look them down; even the more secularized ones were weirded out. I’m ashamed to admit that I was one of those and I can say that only about a year ago, when I was 25, I became slightly interested in marriage.

    I think it has to do more with cultural norms than anything, but there are cases where the woman is jealous so she’s trying to bring the other down.

  41. Chels says:

    Back to the topic, I actually disagree that those women are using ther husbands as “bragging rights”, they’re more likely doing it to get out of something they don’t want to do and have no better excuse; and I haven’t encountered this malice.

  42. Kathy says:

    I would not say it was bragging rights either, Chels. However I think it is unlikely that it is a case of “doing it to get out of something they don’t want to do and have no better excuse” It is just a quick resolution.

    When I say that NO I am not interested, I will often STILL be badgered and pressured into buying something. It doesn’t work on me, but it’s tedious nevertheless.When I say that I have to ask my husband that usually gives them nowhere to go, and they back off. In any event my husband would not be pleased if I spent money on something unless I had discussed it with him beforehand.

    In the case of the telemarketer who dissed my husbands opinion, well, I took the most expedient route and hung up on him whilst he was still talking.

  43. Dalrock says:

    @Ellimist

    So they want husbands, but they don’t want to be wives?

    Yes and no. Many of them object to having any obligations; those are for men. But they do want the status of being a wife, just like they want the status of the wedding. What muddies this is huge numbers of women have been convinced that if they dump their hapless husband a far better man will magically appear. I know it is insane, but it is what it is.

  44. That there is still status amongst women in being a wife is indicated by the enduring popularity of the honorific “Mrs”. In theory, all women were supposed to adopt “Ms” – and nearly all unmarried women have. But there has been a real resistance amongst women to staying as a “Ms” after marriage – most in my social circle have preferred “Mrs”. They want it to be known that they have the distinction of being married.

  45. TikkTok says:

    What gets me is women who pull out the marriage card but don’t change their names. That to me, seems like a total paradox, and “using” marriage when it’s convenient. I think marriage is more than a tax status.

    Most circles I move in, the ladies actually want to be married to their husbands. If it comes up that to do/buy something might not settle well with *either* partner, it’s respected. And here’s the crux- at some point, it seemed like marriage became a dirty word, and for a woman to be married and care about her husband’s opinion either makes her weak or controlled. While there may be some marriages that fall into those categories, it’s obviously not the case in all marriages.

    Until people in general can start being respectful human beings and start thinking about more than just their basal desires, relationships will have a long way to go.

    I also think it’s particularly sweet when a man calls his wife of any number of years (but the more the sweeter, I think) his “bride.” Let’s not forget the portion of men who call their wives “old lady.” I don’t think we can “blame” feminism on just the women……..

  46. Kai says:

    Interesting comparisons. I am not sure how unmarried women hear ‘my husband’. I use it as a practical term, bit merely as that. When I got married, I had a hard time getting used to using. ‘My husband’, since it always sounded like name-dropping to my ears (“…so this is MY HUSBAND, soandso…”). As more of my friends married, it started to feel less like a brag and more normal.
    If I really do need to talk over a purchase or plan with my husband before committing, I don’t hesitate to say so, but I’d never just jump to him for an excuse. If I am not interested, they’ll be well aware of the need to leave me alone without my invocation of any higher powers.

  47. Anon says:

    I stopped dating in my mid 20′s but up until then all my girlfriends used to invoke me as status to her friends. It doesn’t surprise me at all that women use “husband” in the same way. I have even heard through the grapevine that one girl still talks about me to her friends, even though I dumped her in 2006. And have hardly talked to her since.

    So it begs the question. When women belittle their husbands/boyfriends behind his back, why does that not lower her status? After all, she’s the one sticking with him.

    [D: It absolutely does lower her own status. It isn't a rational thing to do, which is why it confuses so many men.]

  48. Hravan says:

    Anonymous Reader:
    2. What age cohort is involved? Seems to me that all the women in comments or otherwise under discussion are over 30, some are over 40. Anyone in their 20′s who uses this word as a bragging right?

    I’m in my mid-20′s and brag about my fiance all the time (he’s a great guy!), and I suspect I’ll only do it more once I get to call him husband. Mm, just the word makes me feel all warm and fuzzy! I might be in the minority among my age group with regards to this, though.

  49. alcestiseshtemoa says:

    I started to call women “Miss” due to a liberal school I was attending but I have since changed to “Maam” as a general term for any women I meet and “Sir” for any man. What started my change is how I noticed that both professors and students in the room refereed to unknown persons as “She”. I was a bit rebellious and resisted such things. I always used “He” as a general term for unknown persons and other examples. I also didn’t want to refer people by their first name only and used titles before their names if their first names was used at all (usually was title or title followed by last name).

  50. Brendan says:

    That there is still status amongst women in being a wife is indicated by the enduring popularity of the honorific “Mrs”. In theory, all women were supposed to adopt “Ms” – and nearly all unmarried women have. But there has been a real resistance amongst women to staying as a “Ms” after marriage – most in my social circle have preferred “Mrs”. They want it to be known that they have the distinction of being married.

    This is a regional cultural difference. In upper middle class American culture, almost *no* women go by “Mrs.”. Feminism has blotted that out for all but the most ardently subversive traditionalists.

  51. zed says:

    In upper middle class American culture, almost *no* women go by “Mrs.”. Feminism has blotted that out for all but the most ardently subversive traditionalists.

    In a tangentially related point –

    I work in computer systems administration. When I add a new user ID it is based on the person’s name. It just makes things easier to keep track of than using the sort of IDs people tend to use on the Internet – “jsmith” contains a lot more information relevant to administration than “Big Bad Dog 123″.

    Every divorced woman in my organization has insisted that all their computer IDs be changed back to their maiden name when they got divorced. We go through weeks messing with aliases, getting everyone that has them in their address book to update their entries, and re-establishing credentials for remote systems. It is a colossal PITA for everyone concerned, but the need to jettison any last small vestige of their married identity seemed to be very important to these women.

  52. Chels says:

    I would not say it was bragging rights either, Chels. However I think it is unlikely that it is a case of “doing it to get out of something they don’t want to do and have no better excuse” It is just a quick resolution.

    Yeah, Kathy, it doesn’t make sense to think of it as bragging; more like a quick resolution like you said. It’s not like being married is rare, the majority of women do have husbands, so what’s the point? It’s like saying to someone “haha I have a car!”, and the other person would reply “yeaaaah so? I also have a car…what’s your point?”

    This is a regional cultural difference. In upper middle class American culture, almost *no* women go by “Mrs.”.

    Most people go by their first names; I have always called my professors/bosses by their first names. However, some didn’t like for students to call them by their first names, in that case, they’d say to call them Dr. X (male or female).

    I also think that most young people don’t know the difference between “Miss” and “Missis” (I actually had to google it to find out which one is which.

  53. Arual says:

    I regularly brag about my husband, but I try to avoid using him as an excuse because it is unfair to put him in a bad light when I’m the one saying “No” to something. It also changes my attitude towards him if I blame him unnecessarily, and that’s not a road I want to go down. I’m 23, and the marriage age around here is pretty young (Utah).

    Though, as a confession, I didn’t change my last name. Laura Cole sounded too much like Lara Croft, I like to joke. In all honesty though, I don’t have any excellent reasons and I was a fairly feminist snot when we married. I don’t know if it’s too late to make the change, our second anniversary is this December.

  54. Anonymous Reader says:

    Ok, cottagechild, thanks for that clarification. Although for most men in college or recently out of college, college women are the group they are most likely to meet. So you might want to dial back the way you write on that topic, because you came across to me as “Oh, well, if a man can’t find a Good Girl then it’s All His Fault, haha and trala!”. Maybe that’s not the impression you meant to give.

    All:
    Frankly this topic is somewhat fantastic to me. Because it seems like something that my mother, aunt, grandmother, etc. would say – I frankly have not heard any woman under the age of 70 say anything remotely like “My husband wouldn’t like it”, save in a nasty, or sarcastic, or snarky way as part of a “girls night out” party* in years. I move in a variety of circles, including 20-something married people, professional people in their 20′s – 60′s, blue collar people in their 30′s – 40′s, and I just never hear any woman say this in a serious way. I’ve heard one professional woman mention something that her husband wouldn’t like, but was in the context of “Who can we send to this conference? I’d go, but my husband wouldn’t like it so I’m willing to send someone else from the work group”. That’s not at all what Mrs. Dalrock said, though.

    It’s like reading people having a discussion on how to saddle a unicorn.

    * It used to amaze me what women would say in the presence of strangers. Now that I understand female attractors better, and realize that most men don’t actually exist to most women, i.e. we are “grey outlines” not actual men, it makes more sense. However, women should be aware that when they to to a pizza joint, drink a lot of alcohol, and start trashing the men they allegedly are so much in luv with, there are people who have eyes to see them and ears to hear them…and long, long memories.

  55. David Collard says:

    I have been shocked by the things wives have said about their husbands in company. Not often, but on rare occasions that I still remember. It reflects so poorly on them.

    Here in Australia, many of the young women I know at work change their surnames when they marry. Even professionals. Some girls still use Miss. Mrs is still pretty popular. Forms usually include all the options.

    I don’t know if my wife uses the “husband excuse”. She may. She often asks my permission before buying things.

    I agree that not many people read sites like this, and there is probably a “fallacy of composition” or selection bias or whatever, but the Manosphere ideas are getting some mainstream coverage. What I do notice is that the commentary sections on mainstream articles on “gender issues” are now full of “red pill” and MRA comments.

  56. Anonymous says:

    I find it interesting that women only put peer pressure on single women. Its as if single women are seen as “loose cannons” rolling around on deck, desperately needed to be put in place before they cause damage. Anyone want to do an evolutionary analysis on this?

  57. Strong Man says:

    I continually find it interesting among women who are living together but not married, the woman quite often will refer to her “husband” even though it’s really a boyfriend–and sometimes a man will do the same with “wife,” but in my experience it seems to be less common.

  58. I’m in my 20s, and married women my age definitely invoke their husbands even when they’re not trying to ward off some annoying salesman. For instance, their Facebook statuses include gratuitous mentions of their husbands (i.e., “Going lamp shopping with my husband!”, “Watching Brokeback Mountain and eating cheetos with my husband!”). I guess it’s the newly-married glow.

  59. Dalrock says:

    @ Anon

    I find it interesting that women only put peer pressure on single women. Its as if single women are seen as “loose cannons” rolling around on deck, desperately needed to be put in place before they cause damage. Anyone want to do an evolutionary analysis on this?

    This is more about intra-sexual competition than bringing loose cannons in line. Most men vastly underestimate how much of this goes on between women, especially younger women. They are constantly jockeying for status. So much of what they say to each other takes on a whole new meaning when you take this into account. I touched on this in a previous post. If you do this you will be astounded at what is really being said. It is like finding out people around you were secretly speaking in a language you couldn’t understand.

    Husbands are big status gains, as long as the man isn’t omega. Feminism has tried to retrain women to compete solely on more ancillary things like handbags, careers, credentials, etc. and paint husbands as status detractors. It works to some degree, but the status of wife and mother still pops back up no matter what they do.

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  62. Ed says:

    You bet this is true; I found out about it on the day I married. My (new) wife arranged a photograph with four of her married friends in which the five of them were wearing their husbands jackets over their dresses. An obvious interpretation: they had the “pelts” of the game animals they had “caught”.

    Oh and yes, she was happy to use “my husband” but was reluctant to hear me say “my wife”. She has since gotten used to it…

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  64. Men who ask other men question like what do you think of my misses age etc my misses gets all the men wanting her etc i have got her are pathetic these women who need men like that are all shallow below the surface deep people who are mature don’t need to compare or ask others option they are happy with who they choose and who they are with. that kind of love is depressing lol The I am married status is also shallow because you were an important person before you were married must have forgotten that, and if you only felt important when married then you were a sad person I am who I am should be what is the real point and who I am is what people should like not your better now you have another half lol

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